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The New York Times editorializes:

Europe’s Duty on Migrants

Many more could drown unless immigration restrictions are relaxed and doors are opened

… Unless Europe acts to reform its policy on migration, 2015 could be the deadliest year yet for the thousands of people who fled to Libya from conflict-torn regions across the Middle East and Africa, only to find Libya equally dangerous.

Obviously Europe is the safer place to be. But migrants cannot request legal asylum in Europe unless they actually set foot on European soil. This makes them easy prey for well-organized smugglers who offer passage across the Mediterranean – for a price, and on unseaworthy boats.

Italy’s Mare Nostrum marine rescue program, created after more than 350 people drowned off Lampedusa in October 2013, rescued 130,000 people last year. But the program was too costly for Italy to continue, and was replaced in January by the much smaller European Triton border patrol program. Triton’s budget is only one-third what Mare Nostrum’s was, and operates only within 30 nautical miles of Europe’s shores. Fortunately, the Italian coast guard and navy have stepped in and continue to patrol waters near Libya, but they cannot handle the current influx without more help. An astonishing 8,480 migrants were rescued last weekend alone.

You know what wealthy country is on a safe land route from Africa and wouldn’t require a risky boat trip? The only danger facing migrants would be the enormous razor wire fences and the automatic rifle wielding border guards. (I don’t think they’ve deployed land mines. Yet). Still, “Israel’s Duty on Migrants” doesn’t seem to come up much. It would seem like a good test of the conventional wisdom. Let’s try out open borders in Israel and then check back in a generation to find out if it was as crackerjack idea as everybody suggests.

Europe’s border security agency, Frontex, says that between 500,000 and one million migrants are massed in Libya waiting to set forth for Europe, compared to the 170,000 who arrived in Europe by sea last year.

The population of the African continent in 2013 was 1,111,000,000, so one million migrants would be less than one out of a thousand. In other words, there are lots more where those came from. By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.

A simple reform would be to modernize the refugee application system to the 21st Century and run it solely over the Internet. You can apply from your local Internet cafe in your own country, and if you are Einstein, Solzhenitsyn, or Coetzee, you get in. If you aren’t, too bad, stay home. If you show up without your application being already approved, you get a year in a work camp and a one way ticket home.

This would stop the drownings quick.

The current refugee system is like if you showed up at Harvard in person and demanded they let you be a student, so they say, well, we’ll take a couple of semesters to process your application, so in the meantime here’s the Harvard course catalog!

Funny how Harvard doesn’t work that way.

 
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  1. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    … Unless Europe acts to reform its policy on migration, 2015 could be the deadliest year yet for the thousands of people who fled to Libya from conflict-torn regions across the Middle East and Africa, only to find Libya equally dangerous.

    I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until – surprise! – they realized it was, well, Libya.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until – surprise! – they realized it was, well, Libya."

    Then make Europe dangerous to them as well and they'll go back to Africa.

    If Africa has no duty to make itself nice for blacks, why do Europeans have this duty?

    Blacks are not obligated to fellow blacks but white people are obligated to blacks?

    White nations must demographically murder themselves in their duty to blacks who have no sense of duty to themselves?

    How about every affluent globo-lib family take in 5 poor black Africans into their homes?
    Duty.
    , @interesting
    "they realized it was"


    NO FREE EVERYTHING, HOUSING, FOOD, EDUCATION, ALL FREE FREE FREE
    , @Big bill
    Like all the Guatemalans who "fled to Mexico" until, surprise!, they found out Mexico didn't want them.
    , @jimB
    I seem to recall reading on this blog that Gaddafi/Kaddaffi/Qdafei was trying to become emperor of African and was importing large numbers of black Africans as soldiers and laborers, which infuriated the "white" north African inhabitants of the country. Notice the guys doing the head harvesting are a lighter shade than the heads being harvested. It strikes me that the Africans fleeing Libya now must be leftover from the Mo-man's attempt to elect a new Libyan people. The EU could, out of the goodness of their hearts, offer these economic drifters transport back to their home countries.

    I like the term drifter. It pops up frequently in old Kung Fu reruns. It is an apt description for illegal or otherwise unwanted aliens.

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  2. syonredux says: • Website

    The population of the African continent in 2013 was 1,111,000,000, so one million migrants would be less than one out of a thousand. In other words, there are lots more where those came from. By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.

    Well, I’ve been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.

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    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    Well, I’ve been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.
     
    You are probably correct. And all the arguments that the other side has been pounding over and over again to facilitate the current Mexican immivasion will just be recycled to grease the skids of this future African tidal wave. They have so thoroughly pushed the 'propositional-nation notion', 'the nativists were against the Irish rant', 'the Italians weren't considered white ', and so on, no one will be able to argue against it, lest they be socially ostracized.

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.
    , @Anonymous
    Western civilization took itself down in 1918, and then again, just to make sure, in 1945.
    The sad, pathetic, and mostly self-hating relics which remain will deserve utter extinction if they allow this nightmare of a denouement to play itself out.
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  3. Ivy says:

    Now you know more of the story of the prepper motivation. The decline in trust of officials and agencies is paced by the increase in unintentional self-parody displayed in so much of the media.

    The U.S. has its own immigrant considerations, so could look forward to a more serious “Heckuva job, Brownie.”

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    • Replies: @ABN

    Now you know more of the story of the prepper motivation. The decline in trust of officials and agencies is paced by the increase in unintentional self-parody displayed in so much of the media.
     
    Is prepping becoming more of a thing? I wouldn't be surprised.

    I've seen some segments of Doomsday Preppers on TV, and I can't help but suspect that some of these folks wouldn't mind at all if civilization were to collapse tomorrow. You can just imagine them thinking, "Thank goodness there won't be any diversity sensitivity training seminars in Bartertown!"

    It's a predictable and rational response to living in a society with major problems that can't be honestly discussed. Prepping may be the expression of a social critique that can't be expressed verbally in our society.
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  4. Rob McX says:

    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources. The only chance for a solution would be for them to put a drastic brake on the increase in population and hope that within a couple of generations it might be sustainable.

    Even if Europe were to lift all immigration controls and let them flood in as fast as their boats could carry them, it wouldn’t make the slightest difference in the long run. The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe.

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    • Replies: @Wilkey
    "The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe."

    Yep. But there are also those who think the wave can be managed, and the reason they believe it can be managed is because...they don't believe in democracy. If they cared about democracy they would care a very great deal about restricting who comes in.

    Anyway, it's interesting that they present this most recent disaster as "Europe's problem." The people aboard weren't Europeans. They did not depart from Europe. They were not on a European-flagged vessel. But more than all that, take a gander at the ship's location when it sank. It was far, far closer to Africa than to any major European territory. There is no reasonable argument - none - that European countries had any responsibility to stem this disaster.

    My preferred solution is simple: rescue them, then fly them to a refugee camp in Somalia. Do that as many times as necessary until the boats stop coming. They won't come for long.
    , @Big Bill

    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources.
     
    According to the UN, Africa has a cultivated land usage of something like 27%, as compared to China, which cultivates about 93% of potential farmland.

    Of course Africans will have to eat up all the rest of the "bush meat" to clear the critters out of the way, but who needs lions, tiger, and bears running around loose, anyway?
    , @AnotherDad

    The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe.
     
    Very pithy and well said Mr.McX. That's the sort of clear, succinct blurb that we all ought to use to educate friends and neighbors and propagandize in comment threads.

    One thing i've noted, is that in the last ten years or so our enemies are just much more ... "out", more forthright. That NYT editorial is just very direct and out--Europeans don't own their nations, have *no* right to determine who lives there. The NYT editorial board is the face of nation and civilization destroying evil ... right there in your face.

    I just hope white folks start to wake up.
    , @Andrew
    Rob McX:

    The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa.

    Why should Europe have to? Africa is something like 4 times the geographic size of Europe, has more arable land and natural resources.

    If anything, it was quite legitimate to use places like Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, and Namibia to remove the population pressure in Europe.

    Of course, its preposterous to think Africa will ever reach 4 billion inhabitants without exploding.
    , @Joe Walker
    The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe.

    Excellent point!
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  5. ren says:

    If you show up without your application being already approved, you get a year in a work camp and a one way ticket home.

    This would stop the drownings quick.

    I’m skeptical. One year in a work camp in Europe is probably better than what they will be doing at home this year.

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    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Notice though, Steve didn't say exactly WHERE the work camp is located.
    Could be anywhere.

    Maybe in those refugee camps that are somewhere in the Middle East? What was the name of that country that has those camps? Hardly ever hear the name of it whenever immigration comes up....
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  6. Stealth says:

    They would also stop coming if Europe dealt with them in the same manner the Australians do. Plus, I hate to say it, but what exactly does Europe owe these idiots who die to come to their shores? It’s not like the arrival of these refugees will be a blessing to that continent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Australia has the benefit of being an island.

    If Syria ever flares down, the invasion can proceed instead from Turkey.

    Liberal guilt will come up with any excuse to why invasion must be accomadated. The Scandinavian countries never were major colonizers of the Third World. Japan was.
    , @Kat Grey
    It will be the end of Europe as we know it. This dinghy armada is not coming on a peace mission or to bring prosperity to the ameliorate the economic crisis and I daresay the seekers of a better life are unlikely to be bearers of high culture with which to shore up our crumbling ruins like Pompeii. They are the Fifth Columnists that will catapult Europe back into the darkest of the Dark Ages. This time however there will be no Charlemagne to come to the rescue. And most indigenous Europeans will have become extinct or amalagamated.
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  7. Lagertha says:

    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the “open borders” countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization….the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries…and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing…with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stealth
    Agreed.
    , @Trayvon Zimmerman
    The obvious solution is for Italy, other European countries, and Canada and America to pass laws giving everyone in the world* the right to immigrate to these countries. Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they're fine with legal immigration.

    One of these days, after the Hispanic wave tips Texas back into the Democrat column in the electoral college for good, and it will no longer be numerically possible to elect a Republican President, and more and more congressional seats are held by Democrats who are either colored themselves, or beholden to their colored constituents, the Dems are going to give conservatives their wish, and massively raise the number of legal immigrants we take in every year. And they'll also speed up the process of becoming a citizen, because it's hateful to make all these future Democrats wait seven years to vote. After all, if a person is assimilated enough to be able to sign up for welfare, haven't they demonstrated that they possess all the qualities necessary to take part in our modern form of government?

    *Except white people, of course. White people are pure evil, and the last thing any country needs is more of them.

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    Me too. The lack of will, the ignorance of what awaits us, the complicity of the elites to let it happen. Fucking depressing as hell. So, fuck the malevolence of the you know who's, this is to be expected, but are the masses so fucking stupid they can't draw the logical inference from present trends that the future for their children and grandchildren could not be any more grim?
    , @Hairless Neanderthal
    What is stopping us from counter-migrating? I say we let Maduro fly the incredibly beautiful, resource rich nation of Venezuela into the ground, then mass-migrate Anglos there and start over, this time with more big ass fences and machine gun nests. If you don't mind a tropical climate, it's hard to do much better. Then trickle down the rest of the continent after several generations, picking off countries one by one. Easy.
    , @robother
    The valuation of the individual over the tribe, the willingness to empathize with the Other, to accord the Other the same legal rights as we enjoy, is our tragic flaw. We created a world-wide market, the tremendous prosperity that comes from high-trust longer investment horizons, a world-wide web of communication, commerce and travel, and medical advancements, all based on those traits.
    But it is a system fatally vulnerable to populations that do not (and maybe cannot) share those traits, who see only the material prosperity (all the clearer thanks to media and the internet) and move instinctively towards it.
    , @AnotherDad

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization….the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries…and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.
     
    "not enough time" isn't the issue. The raw genetic capability of these folks is inferior in basic capabilities--IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, trust--for sustaining civilization.

    This is just so depressing…with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.
     

    The answer is to stand up to the minoritarian narrative and assert that you--the native population--have ownership of your nation. That it exists for your race and culture and no one else.

    But yeah ... i'm with you. It is depressing. But i'm not just depressed, i'm also pissed.

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  8. Stealth says:
    @Lagertha
    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the "open borders" countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization....the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries...and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing...with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    Agreed.

    Read More
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  9. The news of this mass African immigration to countries like Italy is beyond horrific. Italy exists as a tribal extended family nation state like Israel or Japan. Accepting mass numbers of Africans that include large populations that have zero intent or interest in assimilation or respecting the host country is a permanent death sentence for anything remotely close to what Italy exists as. Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn’t have their own lands? And when blood inter-tribal conflict erupted in Africa, sure the whites could be expelled back to Europe. I shudder to think at the same conflicts repeating in Italy this time, and ethnic Italians are forced to flee Italy. Reading Sailer makes me feel better in that he articulates my perspective well and is someone who can make this perspective heard. I presume Sailer is ultimately pro-Israel, but is critical of the common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.

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    • Replies: @Trayvon Zimmerman

    But now Italians and Europeans shouldn’t have their own lands?
     
    Of course not. That's the whole point of diversity. Racism must be eliminated from the entire planet, and racism is the existence of white people.
    , @Wilkey
    "Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn’t have their own lands?"

    This.

    Third worlders were allowed to defend their countries from invasion, occupation, and from demographic replacement. Western countries are not.
    , @Southfarthing

    The common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.
     
    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.
    , @Marty T
    Jews have been disproportionately supportive of open borders in this country, but many European countries have almost no Jews. Why are they just as bad on immigration? In the end, white gentiles must accept we are largely at fault, and then fix the problem.
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  10. syonredux says: • Website

    By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.

    Some part of me is still stunned that a Malthusian disaster of that magnitude is brewing, and no one is doing anything to stop it….

    No one in power is proposing a massive birth control program: free Depo-Provera shots to every woman in Africa.Paying African women to get their tubes tied.

    And it’s all because of liberal cowardice.No one is willing to speak out against impoverished Black Africans having too many babies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    The Africans would never accept it. It's not like they don't have values and some things cannot be changed.

    The boats will still come whatever we do. The only possible way to stop it is to make sure that not a single African or Asian will be allowed to stay if they came by boat. Unfortunately that would have to mean that the military would have to help to repatriate them wherever we decide they arrived from.
    , @Maj. Kong
    Another Monsanto Green Revolution is politically easier than mass sterilization of liberalism's favorite pets.

    The Chinese are not interested in preventing future customers...err...serfs from being born.
    , @Anonymous
    Ah, remember!

    As the 'greens' and other lefties keep lecturing us, it's not about population, it's about consumption.

    Also haven't all those 'clever' economists proved that Malthus and Malthusianism are 'just a load of alarmist crap', and 'that there is no limit to human population and ingenuity, it's all about efficient markets'. Well at least enough dumb bastard politicians were 'convinced' by it.
    , @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.
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  11. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Africans in Africa cannot sustain 1,111,000,000 people (let alone 4 billion). When the Men of the North shrug their shoulders to the rest of the world, Malthus will have his revenge.

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  12. The one positive of African immigration is that it could help to initiate a change in the basic global attitude from anti-white to anti-black.

    There’s really no question that Earth today is an anti-white planet. The intensity with which anti-white attitudes are held varies considerably as one moves from country to country and region to region, but even the least anti-white places are still inclined to resent whites, consider them oppressors and haters and to look favorably upon white decline. Simultaneously, there is a tendency to look with pity and kindess upon blacks, to consider them oppressed and in need of aid and to champion their interests.

    The irony is that Earthlings benefit greatly from white existence while suffering significantly from black existence. Sadly, it seems to be only increasing exposure to blacks alerts them to this reality. So as blacks continue to expand throughout the globe there is a reasonable possibility that Earthlings of all races may come to reevaluate their racial assumptions and allegiances, perhaps concluding that far from being a boon to diversity white extinction would be a terrible tragedy, and that rather than being championed blacks are best excluded.

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  13. One last immigration point on this thread. It horrifies me to see “economists” such as Bryan Caplan and John H Cochrane frame immigration as a strictly labor market supply and demand issue and evade the issue of race, family, tribe, and culture. Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”. I’m convinced that anonymous commenters such as myself actually have a logically stronger argument than the PhDs do on this issue, which is a rarity, but I don’t have the clout to make my arguments heard. If I wasn’t as busy, I genuinely think I could write laugh out loud funny satire on this immigration stuff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Australian academic, Frank Salter, really has authored the ultimate response to this immigrationist madness.
    Just Google it.
    , @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.
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  14. Fredrik says:
    @syonredux

    By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.
     
    Some part of me is still stunned that a Malthusian disaster of that magnitude is brewing, and no one is doing anything to stop it....

    No one in power is proposing a massive birth control program: free Depo-Provera shots to every woman in Africa.Paying African women to get their tubes tied.


    And it's all because of liberal cowardice.No one is willing to speak out against impoverished Black Africans having too many babies.

    The Africans would never accept it. It’s not like they don’t have values and some things cannot be changed.

    The boats will still come whatever we do. The only possible way to stop it is to make sure that not a single African or Asian will be allowed to stay if they came by boat. Unfortunately that would have to mean that the military would have to help to repatriate them wherever we decide they arrived from.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Dont repatriate them;sink their boats before they land.What will it take to stop this invasion?A lot of dead Africans.
    , @Jonathan Silber
    It's against the interest of the Italians even to allow boats of refugees to land. Better to turn them back, by force if need be.
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  15. Maj. Kong says:
    @Stealth
    They would also stop coming if Europe dealt with them in the same manner the Australians do. Plus, I hate to say it, but what exactly does Europe owe these idiots who die to come to their shores? It's not like the arrival of these refugees will be a blessing to that continent.

    Australia has the benefit of being an island.

    If Syria ever flares down, the invasion can proceed instead from Turkey.

    Liberal guilt will come up with any excuse to why invasion must be accomadated. The Scandinavian countries never were major colonizers of the Third World. Japan was.

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    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Japan isn't taking them in anytime soon, either. Like Australia Japan is also an island so they should be safe from the deluge at present time. Colonizers of the third world? Korea and the Philippines are now part of the third world?

    Seriously?

    , @e
    Liberal guilt will come up with any excuse to why invasion must be accomadated. The Scandinavian countries never were major colonizers of the Third World. Japan was.

    It isn't guilt; what it is depends on which liberal is talking at the moment, but it isn't guilt.

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  16. Maj. Kong says:
    @syonredux

    By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.
     
    Some part of me is still stunned that a Malthusian disaster of that magnitude is brewing, and no one is doing anything to stop it....

    No one in power is proposing a massive birth control program: free Depo-Provera shots to every woman in Africa.Paying African women to get their tubes tied.


    And it's all because of liberal cowardice.No one is willing to speak out against impoverished Black Africans having too many babies.

    Another Monsanto Green Revolution is politically easier than mass sterilization of liberalism’s favorite pets.

    The Chinese are not interested in preventing future customers…err…serfs from being born.

    Read More
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  17. AKAHorace says:

    A lot of the refugees are Syrian, so it might make sense to give money to make sure that life in refugee camps in Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon is easy. Not all of the problem but it would help.

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    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    The people I saw on the news tonight in the boats weren't Syrian. They were black Africans, and there were lots of them.
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  18. Maj. Kong says:
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  19. @ren

    If you show up without your application being already approved, you get a year in a work camp and a one way ticket home.

    This would stop the drownings quick.
     
    I'm skeptical. One year in a work camp in Europe is probably better than what they will be doing at home this year.

    Notice though, Steve didn’t say exactly WHERE the work camp is located.
    Could be anywhere.

    Maybe in those refugee camps that are somewhere in the Middle East? What was the name of that country that has those camps? Hardly ever hear the name of it whenever immigration comes up….

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  20. @Maj. Kong
    Australia has the benefit of being an island.

    If Syria ever flares down, the invasion can proceed instead from Turkey.

    Liberal guilt will come up with any excuse to why invasion must be accomadated. The Scandinavian countries never were major colonizers of the Third World. Japan was.

    Japan isn’t taking them in anytime soon, either. Like Australia Japan is also an island so they should be safe from the deluge at present time. Colonizers of the third world? Korea and the Philippines are now part of the third world?

    Seriously?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    Philippines is definitely third world. I'm not sure how one would characterize North Korea.
    , @Anonymous
    The Philippines has a per capita GDP of about $2,700. It ranks about 120th among nations on most charts of wealth. That's Third World.
    , @Anonymous
    Italy is a peninsula with one land border, a mountainous frontier hundreds of miles from the action.
    But, apparently, having the whole damn Mediterranean as your most - not to mention a damned good navy - is somehow 'ineffective' as a frontier against inflatable dinghies and rickety skiffs.
    , @Lurker
    And Britain is an island but we are taking over 5700 per week and thats net! Gross immigration is even higher. Of course many incomers are white Europeans and are not too problematic and yes, some emigration is a troubling loss of enrichment too but the overall picture is grim.
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  21. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I thought the NWO destroyed Libya because Kkaaddaaffii was threatening a gold dinar and the globo bankers needed to put a central bank in there asap.

    Silly me playing two dimensional chess. With the NWO it’s always three dimensional chess. They got their central bank plus a new base to ISIS style attacks plus a spewing volcano of humanitarian/immigration crisis.

    In New Hampshire Rand Paul just asked why the hell did we wreck Libya. Now we know.

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    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    In New Hampshire Rand Paul just asked why the hell did we wreck Libya. Now we know.

    Rand still an open borders libertarian? If so, this would be a plus for him.
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  22. @Lagertha
    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the "open borders" countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization....the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries...and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing...with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    The obvious solution is for Italy, other European countries, and Canada and America to pass laws giving everyone in the world* the right to immigrate to these countries. Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they’re fine with legal immigration.

    One of these days, after the Hispanic wave tips Texas back into the Democrat column in the electoral college for good, and it will no longer be numerically possible to elect a Republican President, and more and more congressional seats are held by Democrats who are either colored themselves, or beholden to their colored constituents, the Dems are going to give conservatives their wish, and massively raise the number of legal immigrants we take in every year. And they’ll also speed up the process of becoming a citizen, because it’s hateful to make all these future Democrats wait seven years to vote. After all, if a person is assimilated enough to be able to sign up for welfare, haven’t they demonstrated that they possess all the qualities necessary to take part in our modern form of government?

    *Except white people, of course. White people are pure evil, and the last thing any country needs is more of them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notsaying
    "Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they’re fine with legal immigration."

    Yes, these people all say that stupidest things. And it's not just "these people" who are Republican politicians but it's most of America's elite.

    These supporters of mass migration have made numerous decisions that will lead to multiple domino effects that they themselves don't realize. Unfortunately for us, I think the real crunches on a lot of things won't be evident for another generation or two, so the same wrong things will continue being done for a long time.

    In a world of 9 billion people -- due to become 11 billion by around 2050 -- the countries with the highest living standards (the First World) will be put forced to defend themselves against the pressure to take in more people than they can handle.

    There can't be any "open door" in this situation. Anyone who pays attention realizes that the First World's reluctant to take more people, for the most part. You might get some countries to take in a combined extra 100,000 or 200,000 or something like that. Nothing like extra millions.

    Anybody who thinks the First World will taken in people by the millions per year is just nuts. Between the workers from Southern and Eastern Europe who've come in over the past 10-15 years and the various economic and social difficulties they've had with a much larger number of non-European people in their midst, a lot of voters in Northern Europe have about enough new people already.

    The people in Europe would vote out politicians who agreed to give a permanent home to massive influxes of people, especially since many of them are "economic refugees." Does the New York Times editorial board really not know all this or are they just playing dumb?
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  23. @Massimo Heitor
    The news of this mass African immigration to countries like Italy is beyond horrific. Italy exists as a tribal extended family nation state like Israel or Japan. Accepting mass numbers of Africans that include large populations that have zero intent or interest in assimilation or respecting the host country is a permanent death sentence for anything remotely close to what Italy exists as. Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn't have their own lands? And when blood inter-tribal conflict erupted in Africa, sure the whites could be expelled back to Europe. I shudder to think at the same conflicts repeating in Italy this time, and ethnic Italians are forced to flee Italy. Reading Sailer makes me feel better in that he articulates my perspective well and is someone who can make this perspective heard. I presume Sailer is ultimately pro-Israel, but is critical of the common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.

    But now Italians and Europeans shouldn’t have their own lands?

    Of course not. That’s the whole point of diversity. Racism must be eliminated from the entire planet, and racism is the existence of white people.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    That's right. Diversity is the final solution to the white problem. Of course, eliminating whites actually reduces diversity, but why let statistical geek talk ruin the fun.
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  24. Wilkey says:
    @Rob McX
    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources. The only chance for a solution would be for them to put a drastic brake on the increase in population and hope that within a couple of generations it might be sustainable.

    Even if Europe were to lift all immigration controls and let them flood in as fast as their boats could carry them, it wouldn't make the slightest difference in the long run. The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren't trying to help Africa. They're trying to destroy Europe.

    “The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe.”

    Yep. But there are also those who think the wave can be managed, and the reason they believe it can be managed is because…they don’t believe in democracy. If they cared about democracy they would care a very great deal about restricting who comes in.

    Anyway, it’s interesting that they present this most recent disaster as “Europe’s problem.” The people aboard weren’t Europeans. They did not depart from Europe. They were not on a European-flagged vessel. But more than all that, take a gander at the ship’s location when it sank. It was far, far closer to Africa than to any major European territory. There is no reasonable argument – none – that European countries had any responsibility to stem this disaster.

    My preferred solution is simple: rescue them, then fly them to a refugee camp in Somalia. Do that as many times as necessary until the boats stop coming. They won’t come for long.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    I just took a look at the location of the sinking - nowhere close to European waters. Africa's problem, not ours. And another thing: a survivor quoted in this article is from Bangladesh! People will travel a long way these days to find a place to flee from.
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  25. @Lagertha
    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the "open borders" countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization....the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries...and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing...with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    Me too. The lack of will, the ignorance of what awaits us, the complicity of the elites to let it happen. Fucking depressing as hell. So, fuck the malevolence of the you know who’s, this is to be expected, but are the masses so fucking stupid they can’t draw the logical inference from present trends that the future for their children and grandchildren could not be any more grim?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Trayvon Zimmerman
    Yes, unfortunately, they are.
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  26. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Japan isn't taking them in anytime soon, either. Like Australia Japan is also an island so they should be safe from the deluge at present time. Colonizers of the third world? Korea and the Philippines are now part of the third world?

    Seriously?

    Philippines is definitely third world. I’m not sure how one would characterize North Korea.

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  27. Wilkey says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    The news of this mass African immigration to countries like Italy is beyond horrific. Italy exists as a tribal extended family nation state like Israel or Japan. Accepting mass numbers of Africans that include large populations that have zero intent or interest in assimilation or respecting the host country is a permanent death sentence for anything remotely close to what Italy exists as. Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn't have their own lands? And when blood inter-tribal conflict erupted in Africa, sure the whites could be expelled back to Europe. I shudder to think at the same conflicts repeating in Italy this time, and ethnic Italians are forced to flee Italy. Reading Sailer makes me feel better in that he articulates my perspective well and is someone who can make this perspective heard. I presume Sailer is ultimately pro-Israel, but is critical of the common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.

    “Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn’t have their own lands?”

    This.

    Third worlders were allowed to defend their countries from invasion, occupation, and from demographic replacement. Western countries are not.

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  28. M_Young says:

    The Head Collaborator — “no limits”

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    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    Why the fuck is an American lawyer in charge of the European Council on Refugees and Exiles?

    LinkedIn profile
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  29. @AKAHorace
    A lot of the refugees are Syrian, so it might make sense to give money to make sure that life in refugee camps in Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon is easy. Not all of the problem but it would help.

    The people I saw on the news tonight in the boats weren’t Syrian. They were black Africans, and there were lots of them.

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  30. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It’s ironic but Mother Nature despises men who act like women. She makes sure that they wither instead of thrive.

    There are many countries in the world where the men still act like men and the borders are tight. The solution for Italy and the West is simple…but it’s also intensely masculine.

    So how does a ladyboy society achieve a masculine solution? Look for a mass arrest of government officials and violent political upheaval that occurs overnight. A coup.

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  31. I just don’t understand how the NYT can print an anonymous opinion column. We all know that the real reason is that the opinionator is hiding, but what’s the official reason for permitting anonymous opinion columns, it’s completely ridiculous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    It's called an editorial. It represents the collective opinion of the editorial page editors, whose names are disclosed in the masthead.
    , @Lagertha
    No one ever wants to stick their neck out...especially these days when there is a mine field of mistakes/gaffes to be made/said under the "Eye of Sauron" of political correctness.
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  32. Well, if they’re not noblesse anymore, at least they can still be obliged.

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  33. You are on your own. That’s how Harvard works.

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  34. iSteveFan says:
    @syonredux

    The population of the African continent in 2013 was 1,111,000,000, so one million migrants would be less than one out of a thousand. In other words, there are lots more where those came from. By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.
     
    Well, I've been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.

    Well, I’ve been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.

    You are probably correct. And all the arguments that the other side has been pounding over and over again to facilitate the current Mexican immivasion will just be recycled to grease the skids of this future African tidal wave. They have so thoroughly pushed the ‘propositional-nation notion’, ‘the nativists were against the Irish rant’, ‘the Italians weren’t considered white ‘, and so on, no one will be able to argue against it, lest they be socially ostracized.

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.

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    • Replies: @ABN
    Yeah, if you think Ellis Island schmaltz is a self-serving retcon, just wait until we have Grandpa-Was-Living-In-the-Shadows schmaltz. Schoolkids will be taught that nothing was more quintessentially American than violating American immigration laws. Our "civic religion" will go from being merely cheesy and naive to being anarchic and pathologically antisocial.
    , @ren

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.

     

    I don't wonder. Mexicans are not smart enough to think that they see subtle nuances behind the scenes that are opposite of what they see right in front of them. Mexicans will be more than happy to kill Africans.
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  35. black sea says:

    “”If a problem has no solution, it may not be a problem, but a fact – not to be solved, but to be coped with over time.”
    –Shimon Peres

    I think he may have been on to something.

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  36. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Typical bullshit from the NYT.

    In effect what they are saying is this ‘let’s give in to blackmail, intimidation, violence and mob-rule, because that’s the way to an easy life’. Seductive in a way, but it’s the moral equivalent of saying ‘let’s close down all the police departments, prisons, courts and law enforcement, crime will always exists, so it’s a futile waste of time and money to try to control it’.

    First things first. Although the lefties, the media, the entire establishment are painting these so-called ‘migrants’ – in reality they fit the very definition of ‘invader’ that is unwelcome, unwanted, uninvited alien interlopers on someone else’s nation, the fact that are not -yet- armed makes no difference – as ‘victims’, and ‘poor helpless victims’ at that, even though they intentionally, voluntarily and knowingly put themselves in a place of danger, they are most definitely NOT victims, no matter how pathetic they seem. They are the active troublemakers, in fact they are the aggressors. The true, real victims in this disgusting story are native, white Europeans who did not want them, did not ask for them and resent them.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant. New nationalistic political parties have formed, and are gaining power in European parliaments. There really is no one group in charge to help new immigrants, and with most police not carrying guns in Europe, we are in for instability and chaos.

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands. Is this why the "zombie" movies/tv series have been so popular?
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  37. @Malcolm X-Lax
    Me too. The lack of will, the ignorance of what awaits us, the complicity of the elites to let it happen. Fucking depressing as hell. So, fuck the malevolence of the you know who's, this is to be expected, but are the masses so fucking stupid they can't draw the logical inference from present trends that the future for their children and grandchildren could not be any more grim?

    Yes, unfortunately, they are.

    Read More
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  38. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Japan isn't taking them in anytime soon, either. Like Australia Japan is also an island so they should be safe from the deluge at present time. Colonizers of the third world? Korea and the Philippines are now part of the third world?

    Seriously?

    The Philippines has a per capita GDP of about $2,700. It ranks about 120th among nations on most charts of wealth. That’s Third World.

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    • Replies: @Jim Sweeney
    It would also surprise many to learn it has almost 100,000,000 people too. 12th most populous in the world but no money or real hope for the most part, just the usual 1%.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Translation: Michelle Malkin aside, the Philippines are the Columbians/Honduras of Asia. They're the Hispanic equivalent and sort of drag down the Asian average in education, IQ, etc.

    But then, they were a colony of Spain for several centuries. Certainly they were under Spanish yoke for far longer than they ever were under Japan.

    The point is that compared to Western nations who more than dabbled in Colonialism (British, Dutch, French, etc) Japan doesn't have a lengthy history of having a lot of colonies and therefore they should have a right to self determination as to who they allow in past their borders and who they don't permit, whether they be Koreans, Filipinos or anyone else in the region.

    Japan's not down with the whole invite the world and in debt to the world. They like their nation just fine as is.
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  39. Lagertha says:

    I loved John Oliver tonight and his last piece, the “end of the world” with Martin Sheen, not to mention polar bears and the male polar bear’s special thang. SO funny… and true…even after his spiel about patents and patent laws – I actually own a patent! Anyway, I feel better now.

    Without cooperation, everyone suffers and dies. And, weirdly, I care more about animals than people, always have…I am not a cat person (end of Oliver’s segment) but, I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.

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    • Replies: @Udolpho
    "I think people are consciously evil and animals are not."

    Actually not a view that aligns with any facts.
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  40. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone – let alone brains – whatsoever.

    From this display of cowardice and stupidity in the Mediterranean it can now be more or less guaranteed for certain that Europe, including the eastern European EU states, will be predominantly a black and brown continent by the end of this century.
    Absolutely certain.

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    • Replies: @Jahangir
    Maybe that will bring all the Eastern Europeans to the United States, which would be pretty good, except for the fact that immigrating to the US from Eastern Europe is damn near impossible.
    , @silviosilver

    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone – let alone brains – whatsoever.
     
    The problem is they do have brains, a lot of brains. Foisting this cataclysm on Europeans, recruiting astonishing numbers of Europeans to the cause of their own demise, and tongue-tying skeptics into effective acquiescence is an act of pure genius - evil genius, to be sure, but genius all the same.
    , @Joe Walker
    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone – let alone brains – whatsoever

    I don't think it is due to a lack of backbone or brains. I think it is due to the fact that they have been paid of by pro-immigration billionaires like George Soros and Sheldon Adelson.
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  41. Unfortunately Stealth “They would also stop coming if Europe dealt with them in the same manner the Australians do.” As an Australian, I can tell you, it hasn’t stopped them. Once here, in detention camps, they proceed to cause mischief and mayhem, then you get a legion of SJW, along with several other insitutions, decrying the ‘injustice’ of it all and of course a good measure of white guilt into the bargain, predictably, the people leading the charge are nearly all whiteys. We all know what should and can be done to stop it, but nothing will ever be done about it. Ever. Western civilisation is finished.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Genetic engineering. A program to develop a selective DNA vector technology that will interfere with reproduction. One oligarch could fund it with $20M+. Have a shell entity fund researchers to do the work. The development of the vectors would be ostensibly conducted for neutering feral cats and dogs (or some other acceptable program that everyone agrees is good). Something water-borne or food-borne. Distribution would be a bit more difficult, but not insoluble.
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  42. Lagertha says:

    Oh, and, before I go to sleep: yesterday I heard that Christians (on those boats crossing the Mediterranean ) among the Africans, were thrown overboard by the refugees! Every “boat person” from now on, crossing into Europe/Malta will have to immediately be detained and be questioned of murder or assault of others on board. No one just “walks” on anymore after this news of throwing people overboard. I mean, is this “I am Legend” sequence 2?

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    "sequel" not sequence.
    , @FF
    The Christians were thrown overboard by Muslims fleeing their hellholes for Christian countries...
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  43. Whiskey says: • Website

    If the immigrants were White they’d be left to drown

    But they are Black. Most Whites worship Black people as racial redeemers and saviors from modernity and the rquirement to think, faster and better, 24/7.

    The FT is filled with this every day.

    The future for Whites is very grim.

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  44. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @AnonymousCoward
    I just don't understand how the NYT can print an anonymous opinion column. We all know that the real reason is that the opinionator is hiding, but what's the official reason for permitting anonymous opinion columns, it's completely ridiculous.

    It’s called an editorial. It represents the collective opinion of the editorial page editors, whose names are disclosed in the masthead.

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  45. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha
    Oh, and, before I go to sleep: yesterday I heard that Christians (on those boats crossing the Mediterranean ) among the Africans, were thrown overboard by the refugees! Every "boat person" from now on, crossing into Europe/Malta will have to immediately be detained and be questioned of murder or assault of others on board. No one just "walks" on anymore after this news of throwing people overboard. I mean, is this "I am Legend" sequence 2?

    “sequel” not sequence.

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  46. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.
     
    Some part of me is still stunned that a Malthusian disaster of that magnitude is brewing, and no one is doing anything to stop it....

    No one in power is proposing a massive birth control program: free Depo-Provera shots to every woman in Africa.Paying African women to get their tubes tied.


    And it's all because of liberal cowardice.No one is willing to speak out against impoverished Black Africans having too many babies.

    Ah, remember!

    As the ‘greens’ and other lefties keep lecturing us, it’s not about population, it’s about consumption.

    Also haven’t all those ‘clever’ economists proved that Malthus and Malthusianism are ‘just a load of alarmist crap’, and ‘that there is no limit to human population and ingenuity, it’s all about efficient markets’. Well at least enough dumb bastard politicians were ‘convinced’ by it.

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  47. FF says:
    @Lagertha
    Oh, and, before I go to sleep: yesterday I heard that Christians (on those boats crossing the Mediterranean ) among the Africans, were thrown overboard by the refugees! Every "boat person" from now on, crossing into Europe/Malta will have to immediately be detained and be questioned of murder or assault of others on board. No one just "walks" on anymore after this news of throwing people overboard. I mean, is this "I am Legend" sequence 2?

    The Christians were thrown overboard by Muslims fleeing their hellholes for Christian countries…

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    • Replies: @Trayvon Zimmerman
    The Christians were thrown overboard by Muslims fleeing their hellholes for Christian countries…

    More to the point, some blacks were thrown overboard by other blacks, all of whom were fleeing their black hellholes for white countries.
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  48. Lagertha says:
    @AnonymousCoward
    I just don't understand how the NYT can print an anonymous opinion column. We all know that the real reason is that the opinionator is hiding, but what's the official reason for permitting anonymous opinion columns, it's completely ridiculous.

    No one ever wants to stick their neck out…especially these days when there is a mine field of mistakes/gaffes to be made/said under the “Eye of Sauron” of political correctness.

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  49. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Massimo Heitor
    One last immigration point on this thread. It horrifies me to see "economists" such as Bryan Caplan and John H Cochrane frame immigration as a strictly labor market supply and demand issue and evade the issue of race, family, tribe, and culture. Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it's wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don't have a good response to this, they just stick to their "elevator pitch". I'm convinced that anonymous commenters such as myself actually have a logically stronger argument than the PhDs do on this issue, which is a rarity, but I don't have the clout to make my arguments heard. If I wasn't as busy, I genuinely think I could write laugh out loud funny satire on this immigration stuff.

    The Australian academic, Frank Salter, really has authored the ultimate response to this immigrationist madness.
    Just Google it.

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    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    A nice review of Salter's The War on Human Nature in Australia's Political Culture: H-E-R-E !
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  50. ABN says:
    @iSteveFan

    Well, I’ve been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.
     
    You are probably correct. And all the arguments that the other side has been pounding over and over again to facilitate the current Mexican immivasion will just be recycled to grease the skids of this future African tidal wave. They have so thoroughly pushed the 'propositional-nation notion', 'the nativists were against the Irish rant', 'the Italians weren't considered white ', and so on, no one will be able to argue against it, lest they be socially ostracized.

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.

    Yeah, if you think Ellis Island schmaltz is a self-serving retcon, just wait until we have Grandpa-Was-Living-In-the-Shadows schmaltz. Schoolkids will be taught that nothing was more quintessentially American than violating American immigration laws. Our “civic religion” will go from being merely cheesy and naive to being anarchic and pathologically antisocial.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Yeah, if you think Ellis Island schmaltz is a self-serving retcon, just wait until we have Grandpa-Was-Living-In-the-Shadows schmaltz.
     
    Nah, Latinos don't have the long-lived historical consciousness of Jews. At most their memory of grandpa will be something like "Yeah, I think it was kinda hard back then, but whatever." And then, too, latinos are generally just happy to get away with the daylight robbery they're knowingly engaging in. They lack the burning conviction that no matter what actions they have undertaken it's the rest of the world that has wronged them (and must pay) that is central to Jewish identity.
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  51. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Japan isn't taking them in anytime soon, either. Like Australia Japan is also an island so they should be safe from the deluge at present time. Colonizers of the third world? Korea and the Philippines are now part of the third world?

    Seriously?

    Italy is a peninsula with one land border, a mountainous frontier hundreds of miles from the action.
    But, apparently, having the whole damn Mediterranean as your most – not to mention a damned good navy – is somehow ‘ineffective’ as a frontier against inflatable dinghies and rickety skiffs.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    A European welfare state cannot be expected to cut social spending to spend on the eeevil military. Even Western European .mil s are considered too masculine, reactionary, and white.

    Within living memory, we've seen coups from those militaries.
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  52. Rob McX says:
    @Wilkey
    "The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe."

    Yep. But there are also those who think the wave can be managed, and the reason they believe it can be managed is because...they don't believe in democracy. If they cared about democracy they would care a very great deal about restricting who comes in.

    Anyway, it's interesting that they present this most recent disaster as "Europe's problem." The people aboard weren't Europeans. They did not depart from Europe. They were not on a European-flagged vessel. But more than all that, take a gander at the ship's location when it sank. It was far, far closer to Africa than to any major European territory. There is no reasonable argument - none - that European countries had any responsibility to stem this disaster.

    My preferred solution is simple: rescue them, then fly them to a refugee camp in Somalia. Do that as many times as necessary until the boats stop coming. They won't come for long.

    I just took a look at the location of the sinking – nowhere close to European waters. Africa’s problem, not ours. And another thing: a survivor quoted in this article is from Bangladesh! People will travel a long way these days to find a place to flee from.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I just took a look at the location of the sinking – nowhere close to European waters. Africa’s problem, not ours.
     
    Why would the location matter?
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  53. M_Young says:

    OT, but Haven Monahan appears to be causing mayhem at a frat house in Delaware.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shooting-injures-3-delaware-state-university-officials-article-1.2190573

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  54. Lagertha says:
    @Anonymous
    Typical bullshit from the NYT.

    In effect what they are saying is this 'let's give in to blackmail, intimidation, violence and mob-rule, because that's the way to an easy life'. Seductive in a way, but it's the moral equivalent of saying 'let's close down all the police departments, prisons, courts and law enforcement, crime will always exists, so it's a futile waste of time and money to try to control it'.

    First things first. Although the lefties, the media, the entire establishment are painting these so-called 'migrants' - in reality they fit the very definition of 'invader' that is unwelcome, unwanted, uninvited alien interlopers on someone else's nation, the fact that are not -yet- armed makes no difference - as 'victims', and 'poor helpless victims' at that, even though they intentionally, voluntarily and knowingly put themselves in a place of danger, they are most definitely NOT victims, no matter how pathetic they seem. They are the active troublemakers, in fact they are the aggressors. The true, real victims in this disgusting story are native, white Europeans who did not want them, did not ask for them and resent them.

    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant. New nationalistic political parties have formed, and are gaining power in European parliaments. There really is no one group in charge to help new immigrants, and with most police not carrying guns in Europe, we are in for instability and chaos.

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands. Is this why the “zombie” movies/tv series have been so popular?

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    • Replies: @Christo
    The parking inspector who was going to ticket me in Syracusa Sicily was sporting a 9mm glock. Very smart uniform too for a parking inspector.

    The people here are more resilient than we give them credit for.
    , @Trayvon Zimmerman

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands.
     
    Yes, this very thing was predicted back in the 1970s by the French writer Jean Raspail, in his novel The Camp of the Saints.

    But you seem to be very confused. You're concerned that wealthy nations are going to drown in a deluge of immigrants from poor nations, but at the same time you find it "unsettling" that many European countries have growing movements in opposition to taking in all these immigrants.

    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant.
     
    , @BurplesonAFB
    Given the timeline, I'd say it was originally an allegory for civil unrest and riots of the Watts & Detroit type.
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  55. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Apparently, plans are afoot in the EU Commission to ‘distribute’ these ‘migrants’ ‘equitably’ amongst all member states in exact proportion to the state’s population.
    So, Poland and the other former eastern bloc states can look forward to a good dose of enrichment.
    There simply MUST be a huge quota of empty properties, schools etc in Poland since a significant proportion of the Polish population moved in on England seemingly overnight.
    Quite a few English people have seen the irony of Poland – which assertively took advantage of EU ‘free movement’ diktats to more or less swamp England, now having the EU forcing blacks and browns upon it.
    The EU was a Faustian bargain for Poland, and indeed all its member states.

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  56. Udolpho says: • Website
    @Lagertha
    I loved John Oliver tonight and his last piece, the "end of the world" with Martin Sheen, not to mention polar bears and the male polar bear's special thang. SO funny... and true...even after his spiel about patents and patent laws - I actually own a patent! Anyway, I feel better now.

    Without cooperation, everyone suffers and dies. And, weirdly, I care more about animals than people, always have...I am not a cat person (end of Oliver's segment) but, I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.

    “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Actually not a view that aligns with any facts.

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    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Quote #1 - “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho - "Actually not a view that aligns with any facts."

    Well Udolpho, you'd be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?
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  57. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    The long term solution is the further economic development of Africa, and the news hasn’t been all bad in that regard. Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    In that context, supporting African refugees in Europe makes little sense. Think about how much further the same money could go in Africa. Give it to someone like Paul Kagame in return for taking in migrants.

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    • Replies: @5371
    [Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago.]

    Entirely false. A few years of high commodity prices only produced a windfall for foreigners and a handful of politically connected locals. One or two absurd real estate bubbles benefited no-one else. No widespread economic development occurred anywhere at all, let alone in "much of Africa".
    , @silviosilver

    The long term solution is the further economic development of Africa, and the news hasn’t been all bad in that regard. Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.
     
    Yes Africa is slowly improving, thought it remains way behind the rest of the globe and will remain way behind for a very long time to come, and yes birthrates are slowly, excruciatingly slowly, beginning to reduce (ie from TFR 7+ to 5 or so, on average), but this isn't actually a "solution" to the problems Europeans face at all. L. America is vastly wealthier than Africa and most of it is at or under replacement fertility, but it's still perfectly capable of sending millions upon millions immigrants. Africa's slowly growing prosperity and slowly reducing fertility will do nothing to prevent an immigration onslaught from that continent.
    , @Joe Walker
    As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    Not so much in Africa. Africans seem to see money as a means of making more Africans.
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  58. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    According to Jewish globalists, it wasn’t enough for Africans to push the Europeans out of Africa. Africans must follow Europeans back to Europe and take over.

    Btw, which group did most to mess up the Middle East and Libya that precipitated this massive crisis? There’s also a crisis of refugees in Ukraine and Russia. I wonder who messed that up.

    If black Africans really can’t run anything on their own and must find a better life in white-run societies, then how about white folks invade and develop 10% of every African nation.
    And then the blacks in the 90% of the nation can try to flee to the 10% area ruled by whites.

    Neo-colonialism may be the trick.

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  59. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    “Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.”

    Even if Africa gets richer, it will be way beyond other nations. The difference won’t be big enough to matter.

    As for Mexers, many had more kids in the US even though their living standards went up.

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  60. ABN says:
    @Ivy
    Now you know more of the story of the prepper motivation. The decline in trust of officials and agencies is paced by the increase in unintentional self-parody displayed in so much of the media.

    The U.S. has its own immigrant considerations, so could look forward to a more serious "Heckuva job, Brownie."

    Now you know more of the story of the prepper motivation. The decline in trust of officials and agencies is paced by the increase in unintentional self-parody displayed in so much of the media.

    Is prepping becoming more of a thing? I wouldn’t be surprised.

    I’ve seen some segments of Doomsday Preppers on TV, and I can’t help but suspect that some of these folks wouldn’t mind at all if civilization were to collapse tomorrow. You can just imagine them thinking, “Thank goodness there won’t be any diversity sensitivity training seminars in Bartertown!”

    It’s a predictable and rational response to living in a society with major problems that can’t be honestly discussed. Prepping may be the expression of a social critique that can’t be expressed verbally in our society.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What's prepping?
    , @NOTA
    Good news: no more diversity training at work

    Bad news: starvation, plague, and rule by warlords.

    Hmmm, that's a tough choice....
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  61. e says:
    @Maj. Kong
    Australia has the benefit of being an island.

    If Syria ever flares down, the invasion can proceed instead from Turkey.

    Liberal guilt will come up with any excuse to why invasion must be accomadated. The Scandinavian countries never were major colonizers of the Third World. Japan was.

    Liberal guilt will come up with any excuse to why invasion must be accomadated. The Scandinavian countries never were major colonizers of the Third World. Japan was.

    It isn’t guilt; what it is depends on which liberal is talking at the moment, but it isn’t guilt.

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  62. Rob McX says:

    As European leaders get ever more spineless in resisting the invasion, I can see African rulers cashing in on their cowardice, and offering to control the exodus from Africa in exchange for foreign aid. Colonel Gaddafi made such an offer not long before his demise.

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  63. 5371 says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    The long term solution is the further economic development of Africa, and the news hasn't been all bad in that regard. Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    In that context, supporting African refugees in Europe makes little sense. Think about how much further the same money could go in Africa. Give it to someone like Paul Kagame in return for taking in migrants.

    [Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago.]

    Entirely false. A few years of high commodity prices only produced a windfall for foreigners and a handful of politically connected locals. One or two absurd real estate bubbles benefited no-one else. No widespread economic development occurred anywhere at all, let alone in “much of Africa”.

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  64. AKAHorace says:

    http://rt.com/news/250561-assad-scandinavia-dangerous-isis/

    Assad says that eventually the Syrian refugees should go back.

    OK, Syrians are only part of the problem, but they are the ones that Sweden is automatically accepting. Reporting Assad’s views in the Swedish media is an interesting step.

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  65. AKAHorace says:
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  66. @Massimo Heitor
    The news of this mass African immigration to countries like Italy is beyond horrific. Italy exists as a tribal extended family nation state like Israel or Japan. Accepting mass numbers of Africans that include large populations that have zero intent or interest in assimilation or respecting the host country is a permanent death sentence for anything remotely close to what Italy exists as. Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn't have their own lands? And when blood inter-tribal conflict erupted in Africa, sure the whites could be expelled back to Europe. I shudder to think at the same conflicts repeating in Italy this time, and ethnic Italians are forced to flee Italy. Reading Sailer makes me feel better in that he articulates my perspective well and is someone who can make this perspective heard. I presume Sailer is ultimately pro-Israel, but is critical of the common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.

    The common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.

    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    That one poll regarding illegal immigration to America is your supposed "proof" of your bald contention that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to [all historically] White countries?!?" Nice try! (Well, not really....)
    , @AnotherDad
    > Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    First off that's not what the poll says. You can barely get to 50% on "immigration too high".

    But yes, a lot of Jews quite reasonable folks, and provide a reasonable answer on immigration when posed as a normal policy issue. (All anyone has to do is open one's eyes to see high immigration is making the US more unpleasant.)

    But ...
    --> you'll note that the Jewish figures are 20+ points more "left" (pro-immigration, open-borders) compared to other whites

    --> every formal Jewish organization, the elites, leaders, ethnic spokespeople are rabidly pro-immigration

    The key point is not immigration as a policy-wonk issue like seat-belt laws or charter schools, it's ideology--Jewish minoritarianism.

    Basically, most Jews believe--at some deep level--that Jews have the right to live in any nation. That no nation should be allowed to keep Jews out. And that in any country, Jews must be accepted by the majority. And that any attempts to exclude them are racist!, anti-semitic--fundamentally immoral and illegitimate. In other words, they don't believe in the legitimacy of organic nations.

    This is a quite rational ideology for a middle man minority to hold. However, it's an extremely nasty, hostile ideology to the interests of 99%** of the world that wants to live in their own nations, amongst their own people, following their own traditions and culture, in charge of their own destiny. (** I'll grant it's not 99% if you consider the large chunk--20% or so--of 3rd world peoples who'd like to emmigrate to a white nation in order to get a better life. But those people mostly would rather stay in their own nations with their own people and culture ... except for the superior economic prospects in white nations.)

    That's the issue: Whether people actually have the *right* to their own nations.


    And you aren't going to find Hollywood any majoritarian, pro-national narratives. You've get the 221st movie about the Holocaust, or slavery\Jim Crow\civil rights\evil-southern-redneck. But you're not going to find a movie sympathetic say to California white people's annoyance and despair seeing their neighborhood become a barrio, their kids schools become foreign, America hostile enclaves. Or showcase the drama of a white family dealing with a black home-invasion, rape. Or even a white co-ed gang raped by black football players at Big State U. You won't find a sympathetic portrayal of Italians struggling as their community fills with black refugees and becomes an unsafe, African, crime ridden slum. Or much less, Italians taking the law into their own hands to try and drive out the Africans. Or heroically taking to civilian patrolling of their coasts to drive off African invaders.

    Those narratives are far more realistic and legitimate than the minorities-are-sacred, diversity-is-beautiful pablum Hollywood spews out. But majorities defending their nation, race, culture is a non-starter.

    Again, that's the real issue here--minoritarianism. Do people actually have a right to their own nations?
    , @Joe Walker
    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries

    Not the rich ones like George Soros and Sheldon Adelson.
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  67. Mass Moslem emigration from Moslem lands into Western states serves precisely the aims of Islam and forms, in fact, one of today’s prongs of age-old multi-pronged jihad. Raise bloody mayhem in your own sandbox to force millions of your own kind into your enemies’ heartlands.

    The West falling for – even welcoming and aiding – this invasion by forced anabasis makes Western leaders and elites the biggest saps of all time. What’s more, Western leaders insist also on military meddling in Islam’s internecine conflicts, thus abetting the Islamic invasion of Europe, thus helping to accomplish exactly what the jihadis seek to achieve, which is to flood Europe with Moslems.

    This is how the weaker military power defeats the superbly armed but pusillanimous powers.

    In his grave, Sun Tzu nods knowingly.

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  68. Steve,

    There are 7 Islamic countries with higher GDPs per capita (PPP) in the IMF ranking than Israel.

    It’d make more sense for people like the Tsarnaev family to immigrate to their fabulously privileged co-religionists’ countries where they’d be much happier.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    As Steve himself has amply demonstrated, there was no rational basis for the American government (or any other) to accept the bogus refugee claim of that family. They were simply economic migrants pretending to be refugees-- as are many, if not most, of the other refugees that the United States takes in, these days.
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  69. Maj. Kong says:
    @Anonymous
    Italy is a peninsula with one land border, a mountainous frontier hundreds of miles from the action.
    But, apparently, having the whole damn Mediterranean as your most - not to mention a damned good navy - is somehow 'ineffective' as a frontier against inflatable dinghies and rickety skiffs.

    A European welfare state cannot be expected to cut social spending to spend on the eeevil military. Even Western European .mil s are considered too masculine, reactionary, and white.

    Within living memory, we’ve seen coups from those militaries.

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  70. D. K. says:
    @Southfarthing

    The common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.
     
    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    That one poll regarding illegal immigration to America is your supposed “proof” of your bald contention that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to [all historically] White countries?!?” Nice try! (Well, not really….)

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    • Replies: @Southfarthing
    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data? Narratives (lists of selected claims) aren't reliable.

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson's vision of a borderless future, so I'm skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they're separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).

    It seems like a much broader problem than just Jews. Instead, most Jews seem to be part of the majority of Whites who are less enthusiastic for demographic replacement than elites.
    , @SFG
    It does point out an elite-populace split, which does ring true.

    Most Jews I know lean left, but weren't obsessed with open borders--other things like income inequality, global warming, and gay rights the Democrats give much higher billing tended to take precedent.

    The leadership I think is trying to curry favor with Hispanics or something. I think it's stupid too.
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  71. 22pp22 says:

    You’re always looking for the next fringe group now that the transgendered are so passe. How about trans-race people. Try this.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/04/19/you-wont-believe-what-this-hot-black-trans-teen-did-next/

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  72. D. K. says:
    @Southfarthing
    Steve,

    There are 7 Islamic countries with higher GDPs per capita (PPP) in the IMF ranking than Israel.

    It'd make more sense for people like the Tsarnaev family to immigrate to their fabulously privileged co-religionists' countries where they'd be much happier.

    As Steve himself has amply demonstrated, there was no rational basis for the American government (or any other) to accept the bogus refugee claim of that family. They were simply economic migrants pretending to be refugees– as are many, if not most, of the other refugees that the United States takes in, these days.

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  73. Christo says:
    @Lagertha
    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant. New nationalistic political parties have formed, and are gaining power in European parliaments. There really is no one group in charge to help new immigrants, and with most police not carrying guns in Europe, we are in for instability and chaos.

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands. Is this why the "zombie" movies/tv series have been so popular?

    The parking inspector who was going to ticket me in Syracusa Sicily was sporting a 9mm glock. Very smart uniform too for a parking inspector.

    The people here are more resilient than we give them credit for.

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    • Replies: @Alfa158
    Quite true, I travel a lot in Europe and the unarmed cop is pretty much confined to the UK. I've seen meter maids in Italy who were packing. They haven't gotten armed up to quite the exent of US yet, and they seem to be much less willing to shoot, but that may be because the criminals are less armed so they don't have to use their guns as often.
    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city polce force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. And not even pistol round carbine versions, these are 5.56 30 round magazine military rifles. What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running redlights?
    , @pseudonymic handle
    Then why have they put an African in charge of their immigration policy and, under her urging, adopted birthright citizenship for Italy?
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  74. notsaying says:
    @Trayvon Zimmerman
    The obvious solution is for Italy, other European countries, and Canada and America to pass laws giving everyone in the world* the right to immigrate to these countries. Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they're fine with legal immigration.

    One of these days, after the Hispanic wave tips Texas back into the Democrat column in the electoral college for good, and it will no longer be numerically possible to elect a Republican President, and more and more congressional seats are held by Democrats who are either colored themselves, or beholden to their colored constituents, the Dems are going to give conservatives their wish, and massively raise the number of legal immigrants we take in every year. And they'll also speed up the process of becoming a citizen, because it's hateful to make all these future Democrats wait seven years to vote. After all, if a person is assimilated enough to be able to sign up for welfare, haven't they demonstrated that they possess all the qualities necessary to take part in our modern form of government?

    *Except white people, of course. White people are pure evil, and the last thing any country needs is more of them.

    “Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they’re fine with legal immigration.”

    Yes, these people all say that stupidest things. And it’s not just “these people” who are Republican politicians but it’s most of America’s elite.

    These supporters of mass migration have made numerous decisions that will lead to multiple domino effects that they themselves don’t realize. Unfortunately for us, I think the real crunches on a lot of things won’t be evident for another generation or two, so the same wrong things will continue being done for a long time.

    In a world of 9 billion people — due to become 11 billion by around 2050 — the countries with the highest living standards (the First World) will be put forced to defend themselves against the pressure to take in more people than they can handle.

    There can’t be any “open door” in this situation. Anyone who pays attention realizes that the First World’s reluctant to take more people, for the most part. You might get some countries to take in a combined extra 100,000 or 200,000 or something like that. Nothing like extra millions.

    Anybody who thinks the First World will taken in people by the millions per year is just nuts. Between the workers from Southern and Eastern Europe who’ve come in over the past 10-15 years and the various economic and social difficulties they’ve had with a much larger number of non-European people in their midst, a lot of voters in Northern Europe have about enough new people already.

    The people in Europe would vote out politicians who agreed to give a permanent home to massive influxes of people, especially since many of them are “economic refugees.” Does the New York Times editorial board really not know all this or are they just playing dumb?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No it's not 'nuts'.
    It definitely will happen. Britain's appalling New Labour administration of 1997 - 2005 is proof enough of that.
    , @Trayvon Zimmerman

    Anybody who thinks the First World will taken in people by the millions per year is just nuts.
     
    America is already taking in at least two million people a year between legal and illegal immigration. Soon, whites will be a minority in this country. And you believe that when non-whites are a majority of the population, and start having a much bigger say in national politics, that our politicians are going to massively reduce the number of non-whites coming here?
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  75. @Fredrik
    The Africans would never accept it. It's not like they don't have values and some things cannot be changed.

    The boats will still come whatever we do. The only possible way to stop it is to make sure that not a single African or Asian will be allowed to stay if they came by boat. Unfortunately that would have to mean that the military would have to help to repatriate them wherever we decide they arrived from.

    Dont repatriate them;sink their boats before they land.What will it take to stop this invasion?A lot of dead Africans.

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  76. @Udolpho
    "I think people are consciously evil and animals are not."

    Actually not a view that aligns with any facts.

    Quote #1 – “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho – “Actually not a view that aligns with any facts.”

    Well Udolpho, you’d be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?

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    • Replies: @Truth
    Are you kiddn' me? Udolpho is the biggest PUA in South Dakota. He ain't got no stinkin wife!
    , @Anonymous

    @Udolpho
    Quote #1 – “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho – “Actually not a view that aligns with any facts.”

    Well Udolpho, you’d be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?
     

    Yeah, I've never heard any intelligent person try to argue animals have free will and are capable of committing evil acts.

    Btw, has everyone seen this video out of South Africa? Campfires in the camp of saints. http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=015_1429344572

    , @bomag
    Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?

    Plenty of economic loss to rabbits (and raccoons, coyotes, et al); plenty of people lost to viruses, bacteria, et al.
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  77. @D. K.
    That one poll regarding illegal immigration to America is your supposed "proof" of your bald contention that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to [all historically] White countries?!?" Nice try! (Well, not really....)

    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data? Narratives (lists of selected claims) aren’t reliable.

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson’s vision of a borderless future, so I’m skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they’re separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).

    It seems like a much broader problem than just Jews. Instead, most Jews seem to be part of the majority of Whites who are less enthusiastic for demographic replacement than elites.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    The poll that you pointed to was on the subject of illegal immigration to the United States, not about the subject of immigration to the United States, in general, let alone the subject of the immigration of non-Whites to all of the historically White nations. The break-out that was quoted was by religious affiliation, not ethnicity. The poll was commissioned and published by a group dedicated to immigration limits. The results show that people who claimed to be religiously Jewish were split on the issue of how best to deal with the problem of illegal immigration to the United States, making them, as a group, somewhat less welcoming to illegals than their own leaders. Nothing about the poll or its stated results support your bald claim that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to White countries." Your inability to note or grasp that fact are hereby duly noted.
    , @ben tillman

    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data?
     
    Your poll didn't say what you said it did, but counting Jewish heads is non-responsive. What matters is what Jews do as a group, not what each one believes.

    Jewish support for immigration is about the opinion and actions of the organized Jewish community with its astounding array of resources. But, if you want to focus on specific Jews, we can see a pattern in country after country where one Jew appears to throw open the immigration floodgates single-handedly. Alan Shatter in Ireland, Barbara Roche in the UK, and (less directly) David Schwarz in Sweden. There are no counterexamples.

    For God's sake -- look at Stephen Steinlight. He was an important insider in the Jewish community, and, in expressing his dissent from mass immigration, he based his opposition solely on "Is it good for the Jews?" while calling White opposition to immigration based on ethnic interests "vile".

    It is well-documented that the Jewish community was the proponent of the 1965 immigration act in this country, and the reigning ideologies that underpin the dispossession of White America have Jewish origins. Your apologia for the Jews in this regard is most assuredly not based on the data. and it is completely at odds with biological theory and Jewish history.

    , @ben tillman

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson’s vision of a borderless future, so I’m skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they’re separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).
     
    Some lead, and some follow. Some rule, and some submit. Some advance their ethnic interests, and some pursue their (short-term) personal interests in an environment in which the pursuit of their ethnic interests is forbidden and dangerous.
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  78. bjdubbs says:

    Aren’t the rescues just creating a moral hazard? Why not return the rescued to the African coast? That would stop the flow pretty quickly. It’s the rescues that encourage the flow.

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  79. Truth says:
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  80. Jenova says:

    Italians aren’t worried about this situation because these migrants all want to go elsewhere, mostly to the countries of NW Europe. They’re just passing through.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    yes, this is true. It is well known that the Nordic countries have the greatest safety nets/social programs. Yet, these are the areas that have an increasing undertow of resentment of foreigners since citizens pay a flat tax (much higher than Americans) according to their income and assets. And, unemployment rocks back and forth between 8-10% (not in oil-rich Norway).

    Every summer I detect/read about more and more disgust of "freeloaders" with their "apartheid religion" taking every advantage and crying "racism!" if they are not given a free apartment with more than 4 bedrooms (unheard of in D/S/N/F/I) for their large broods.

    There has been more and more violence committed by Muslim youth against Finnish youth, for instance...assaults on girls, AND, beating up boys, too. Most of the refugees for the last 20 years are Somalis...and the parents basically, refuse to let their youth mingle with ethnic Finns. Some of the other Muslim youth from other countries do interact, and, are like on soccer teams together, and have little to no friction with other youth. Somalis have been there for a generation already, but still, it is very apparent that they stick together. These are also the countries where cops don't pack guns when these violent fights between youths errupt.

    It's weird, but even little populated Iceland has been forced to take refugees. I was hoping the long winters and dreariness, which is the north, would repel a continued flow of refugees and Roma people to the Nordic countries.

    It's too bad Vladimir doesn't feel like embracing all these refugees/economic opportunists since Russia has been losing population for sometime now! And, the beaches of Socchi or Crimea are delightful.

    - a total side issue: Has anyone else noticed that the uber-wealthy have all bought second or third homes in HAWAII? I mean, Ellison bought an entire island! It reminds me of "The Colony," at the end of the movie, "Children of Men," or "I am Legend."
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  81. A broken immigration policy suits transnational elites in the same way Merchant minorities suited European Royalty.

    Open the doors and they shall come; I do think that asylum in safe neighbouring & culturally compatible countries is a good idea.

    Every country has to *pay* for its refugee intake and trust me 1kUSD a month goes a very very long way in Uganda as opposed to the U.S./UK. Furthermore it’s a good way to develop these poorer nations, where they would be tendering to take in refugees.

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  82. @syonredux

    By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.
     
    Some part of me is still stunned that a Malthusian disaster of that magnitude is brewing, and no one is doing anything to stop it....

    No one in power is proposing a massive birth control program: free Depo-Provera shots to every woman in Africa.Paying African women to get their tubes tied.


    And it's all because of liberal cowardice.No one is willing to speak out against impoverished Black Africans having too many babies.

    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush’s reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama’s administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

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    • Replies: @Sean

    Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush’s reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa
     
    His father was so keen on population control he was known as known as 'Rubbers Bush' in Congress.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue
     
    Yeah, the papist plot to promote polygyny in black Africans and the demographic situation in northern Italy and Spain (which have the lowest birth rates in the world) really are cases in point.
    , @syonredux

    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa.
     
    Push-pull.Anti-Abortion conservatives in the USA work against reproduction control in Africa.But, at the same time, the PC Megaphone stays completely silent.The NYTIMES runs editorials and headline stories on Ferguson (the most important place in the world, evidently) but not on the desperate need to slow population growth in Black Africa.

    As with mass immigration to the USA, Right and Left are in tandem on this matter.
    , @Trayvon Zimmerman
    Yes, his followers have made it abundantly clear that Jesus hates white people and wants Western civilization destroyed.
    , @Anonymous

    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa.
     
    OT: I was surprised to read in Mitch Horowitz's One Simple Idea: How Positive Thinking Reshaped Modern Life (it was under $2 on Amazon), that Reagan wasn't a Christian and was a big believer in UFOs, astrology, and other wacky New Age stuff. His comments in interviews to Hollywood reporters were eyebrow-raising. Personally I have no use for Reagan. From financialization to support of militant Mohammedanism.
    , @Joe Walker
    So it is basically the fault of the Republicans and the Catholic Church that Africans can't control their sex drives? Also, why is it the responsibility of non-Africans to provide birth control to Africans?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa
     
    Yeah, right. Peoples too irresponsible to handle simple Christian chastity are yet magically responsible enough to apply artificial contraception and make it work. Have any other circles you'd like us to square?

    Feel free to inject them yourself, Dr Depo Man, but please don't put it on our tax bill.
    , @HA
    "...on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue."

    Excuse me? It's not the Catholic Church who encouraged Spaniards and Italians to stop having babies. They did that in direct opposition to what the Catholic Church was telling them.

    And as I noted earlier, you can be Catholic to the core and still consider it deeply un-Christian for Europe to be siphoning off Africa's best and brightest so as to turn them into their new underclass and their new Bosnias.

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  83. @ syon:
    this demographic event will not only bring down western civilization, but civilization at all. As Peter Frost has written some weeks ago, the Subsaharan African expansion has already reached China and to a lesser extent India. It will reach each and every even mediocre developed region in the world.
    Also I do not think that birth control which is restricted to women would really help. This would be only more motivation for Subsaharan African men to have kids with Asians, Europeans.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    this demographic event will not only bring down western civilization, but civilization at all. As Peter Frost has written some weeks ago, the Subsaharan African expansion has already reached China and to a lesser extent India. It will reach each and every even mediocre developed region in the world.
     
    Don't think so.

    There's a small African presence in the Guangzhou, but it's nothing like--orders of magnitude from--what's happening in the West.

    The Chinese have a long tradition of general hostility to foreigners. Having a few around the trading hubs, but banning them from the interior. And the Chinese are not PC. If Africans starter to venture into other areas bringing their traditional African behavior it would provoke a severe backlash from the population. (And because the Chicoms know this, it's not something they will let happen.)

    Yes, China (and the rest of developed East Asia) has the same problems as the West with the behavior of women in the age of prosperity, birth-control and social media. They'll have to crack that nut, with some combination of traditionalism, nationalism and policy measures.

    But China and Japan and India for that matter, do not have this minoritarianism ideology--or at least are not steeped in it like the West. And they certainly do not have the blacks-are-sacred ideology. Typical\average opinions about blacks in those countries would not be printable in any Western newspaper.

    Much more likely than blacks swallowing Asian countries, is that blacks and browns will rise in the West until there's a backlash, to increase, but enough to destroy the West as effective competition. As the West diminishes, it's more likely--to me--that China will act more decisively in its own interest without regard to utopian Western notions.

    Most likely this will be neo-colonial relationships in Africa--which they are already doing. But i could even see flat out colonialism or even Chinese invading and displacing Africans from nice areas in Africa (ex. South Africa) that the Chinese determine are "improperly governed" or "underutilized".

    The idea that the incompetent blacks are going to steamroll even the semi-competent Asian nations, much less the highly competent Chinese\Koreans\Japanese. Not buying it one bit.

    The African's have no power. Their "threat" exists only because of the weird pathologically self-destructive minoritarian ideologies of WEIRD the societies (i.e. the West).
    , @Anonymous
    Need to keep the very small scale and closely managed nature of the African presence in China in perspective.

    The bulk of Africans are carefully kept in 2-3 cities which the Chinese government has designated as the trade hubs for informal trade in plastic junk with the Middle East and Africa (Guangzhou and Yiwu in Zhejiang are the main ones). There are also a few students at universities around the country who are being trained in technical subjects before being sent home to work (they don't get working visas in China), as well as small community in Beijing (a number of whom work as drug dealers and periodically get arrested in police sweeps that specifically target them.)

    While Westerners in China who aren't corporate expats sometimes open bars, restaurants, English schools, or little consultancies in 2nd tier cities, Africans don't do this. While Chinese are often interested in patronizing these businesses owned by Western or east Asian expats, there is no interest in patronizing African run businesses - a Korean makeup salon, Japanese graphic design shop or British managed pub will get business even in cities with few foreigners, but there isn't any demand for African restaurants or anything else. (Visa enforcement is handled at the city level, which allows for these exceptions in the trading hubs I mentioned)

    The police are much stricter on Africans than on white or Asian expats, and it is much harder for them to get semi-legal visas to do under the table businesses, with the exception of small scale import-export in a couple of cities.

    The Chinese government and public has no interest in any African presence beyond the minimum necessary to facilitate the export of some plastic flip flops and other junk and some education exchange as part of their diplomacy, and the enforcement of laws is consistently applied from the national to the local level to keep it that way.

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  84. Sean says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush’s reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa

    His father was so keen on population control he was known as known as ‘Rubbers Bush’ in Congress.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue

    Yeah, the papist plot to promote polygyny in black Africans and the demographic situation in northern Italy and Spain (which have the lowest birth rates in the world) really are cases in point.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Yeah, the papist plot to promote polygyny in black Africans and the demographic situation in northern Italy and Spain (which have the lowest birth rates in the world) really are cases in point

    The demographic situation in Italy and Spain reflects the fact that the Catholic Church has lost all influence and prestige there, just as it is rapidly losing influence and prestige in Poland and Quebec (which also have disastrously low birth rates). Apparently the Church's plan is to make up for these losses by discouraging any attempts to stop Black Africans from breeding. Great for the Church, not so great for humanity.
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  85. Numinous says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    One last immigration point on this thread. It horrifies me to see "economists" such as Bryan Caplan and John H Cochrane frame immigration as a strictly labor market supply and demand issue and evade the issue of race, family, tribe, and culture. Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it's wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don't have a good response to this, they just stick to their "elevator pitch". I'm convinced that anonymous commenters such as myself actually have a logically stronger argument than the PhDs do on this issue, which is a rarity, but I don't have the clout to make my arguments heard. If I wasn't as busy, I genuinely think I could write laugh out loud funny satire on this immigration stuff.

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.

    The “logic” underlying your position isn’t as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn’t care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn’t mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every “nation” that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound “logic” for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    "Lastly, there is some sound 'logic' for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge."

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?
    , @Anonymous
    Yup. That's precisely why Robert the Bruce and William Wallace fought so hard against the English invaders.
    , @bomag
    The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so.

    So the Greeks, Romans, Persians, etc had no such concepts? Wow.
    , @pseudonymic handle
    Numinous:

    You're a true seer. You and your family and loved ones go first - blending and being eliminated, that is.
    , @Art Deco
    The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so.
    --
    Depends on what boundary you're putting around that concept. Joan of Arc lived and died 600 years ago.
    , @Al Gore Rhythms
    "Just because Bryan Caplan doesn’t care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn’t mean he wants to get rid of the family as well"

    I don't think that's the way it works. Do you think the original gay rights pioneers who only wanted 'tolerance' could have forseen the way their campaign would go in decades to come? Liberal progression has a momentum of it's own. In a way it's the change that's the point as people vie to remain 'ahead of the curve'

    Most opinions are relative and are simply a kind of cultural compromise. So if people think skirts should be a certain length, the most daring will wear them slightly shorter, and when this is accepted then the most daring will wear them that little bit shorter still. There is no 'sensible' or median point to cultural standards like this. And seeing as the logic for the eradication of the family is exactly the same as for the eradication of ethnicity and race then it is only a matter of time before the most daring and pioneering will push towards this view as well. You could say that the family itself is a 'racial category'. You could also say that the word 'family' means such different things to different people that it exists in no meaningful sense. You could say that the family is not natural and is a product of the needs of civilisation and capitalism. You could say it is patriarchal. You could day it promotes inequality based on biological relatedness. You could say it is not fair. And when Europe becomes non-white you could also argue that the existence of white families with white children are the cause for the continued disparities and should be mixed.

    You think you could argue against those points in the world of tomorrow?
    , @ben tillman

    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so.
     
    That doesn't affect his logic at all. He alluded to a principle that applies to nations and groups smaller and larger than nations.
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  86. Sean says:

    “Italians are compassionate people who love children and care for their poor and infirm. They watched the televised drowning of New Orleans in the fall of 2005 with horror and disgust. Most Europeans already have strong notions of American racism, implanted by years of televised imagery of police brutality, dogs set on civil rights marchers, the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., and the ugly fact of slavery at the nation’s core. As they watched the waters rise around the Louisiana Superdome, Italians’ native compassion was offended by the United States’ disregard for its poorest.” ― Nina Burleigh, The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox

    Italy is where the Communist Party became frighteningly strong. They convicted scientists for failing to predict an earthquake, Italy will give the immigrants status to remain. And then these overwhelmingly young and male Africans can go where they like within Europe and once they have become fathers or have a fake marriage they have a right to a family life, and will never be sent back.

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    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor
    Souther Italians are typically left wing, think Mario Cuomo and Bill De Blasio's maternal Italian ancestry is very South Italian. Northern Italians are typically right wing in terms of very pro-responsibility and individual freedom. Giuliani is a good example.
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  87. Trans-Mediterranean migration from Africa is going to be the final make-or-break issue for pro-immigration sentimentalists in Europe, and perhaps further afield. They know this.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Alas, nothing has stopped them in the past, and even this horror show won't stop them in the future.
    You must remember that in only a few short years, or perhaps even now, as it happens, the 'ethnic vote' will be big enough to decide elections in much of western Europe. For example, it might well be that the Conservative Party never manages to achieve a Westminster majority again.
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  88. notsaying says:

    Some of these people’s countries wouldn’t be such a mess if Europe didn’t allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    We do the same thing here in the US.

    The First World countries have become first class enablers of the rich scum of the Earth.

    In an indirect way we are creating our some of our immigration problems: We get the victimizers buying new $100 million apartments in New York, then their country’s poor want to come here too. In London, Paris, etc. that’s also going on.

    I bet thousands of homes in California and Texas are owned by people who got into the people trafficking business just in the last five or ten years alone. Europe’s probably the same.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Some of these people’s countries wouldn’t be such a mess if Europe didn’t allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.
     
    There's always another "white man did it" excuse, but this has nothing to do with it.

    The problem is that there are widely varying capabilities among various racial\ethnic groups around the world, which are the *long* products of geography, climate, the nature of agricultural production and availability of surpluses, the culture created by that production and then selection pressure--principally for IQ, conscientiousness and cooperation--within that culture.

    Europe could have never even colonized these nations and there would be an issue. The only significant input of the white man to this problem is that we made available white medicine and technology to these nations which has resulted in an incredible African population boom. If we could replay history--or at least the last hundred years of it--and simply ignore\quarantine Africa, leave it alone without western technology, then it's population would still be around 100m and these folks would have no way of leaving to migrate to the west.

    Now the African situation is basically hopeless. A rational policy would be a defacto international civilized nation recolonization, with a mission to sterilize the dumbest Africans and reduce population growth there to zero, then negative. Baring that--which ain't going happen--white civilizational survival entails simply barricading the joint, keeping African backwardness from wrecking the rest of the world.
    , @Joe Walker
    Some of these people’s countries wouldn’t be such a mess if Europe didn’t allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    How about some specifics instead of the usual blame whitey nonsense that leftists resort to every time blacks show themselves to be inferior.
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  89. Romanian says:

    Have you read this, Steve?

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/10/frank-salter-on-race-and-nation-in-australia/

    Replace Anglo-Australian with White American or with any number of European nationalities and you get the same thing. It’s very well said.

    “The asymmetry in pecks and the identity and institutional affiliations of the peckers indicates that Australia has an ethnic hierarchy in which Anglos are firmly underneath and an alliance of leftist intellectuals and minorities are firmly on top. The examples also indicate that the hierarchy is not the natural order of things but is maintained through soft totalitarianism, known euphemistically as “political correctness”, consisting of intolerance on the part of the elite media, lack of political alternatives, and intimidation both informal and formal delivered by a growingly authoritarian and openly anti-Anglo immigration industry.”

    “Anglo racism and privilege, and immigrant victimhood, are treated as axiomatic. For example, the “new racism” is held to be a distinctively Anglo view of the nation as assimilationist, ethnocultural, or egalitarian, a narrow conception at odds with the civic nationalism on which multiculturalism is based. Egalitarian images of Australia are a form of Anglo racism, it is argued, because they deny the supposed reality of Anglo privilege.”

    “Salter highlights an early forerunner to the idea that Whites have no legitimate ethnic interests, E. Digby Baltzell’s classic denunciation of WASP ethnicity, The Protestant Establishment: Aristocracy and Caste in America (1964).

    Baltzell treated Anglos as possessing no legitimate interests that might be threatened by other ethnic groups and thus by mass immigration. He clinically examined Anglo-Americans, and only Anglo-Americans, for any sign of ethnic solidarity, inevitably finding symptoms which he promptly diagnosed as immoral. He treated immigrant communities very differently, as possessing legitimate interests that are often threatened by Anglo racism but which would be wholly benign if realised. In this perspective minorities harbour no competitive ethnic sentiments, a most improbable exception from human nature.”

    “Anglo Australians are a subaltern ethnicity. They are second-class citizens, the only ethnic group subjected to gratuitous defamation and hostile interrogation in the quality media, academia and race-relations bureaucracy. The national question is obscured in political culture by fallout from a continuing culture war against the historical Australian nation. Many of the premises on which ethnic policy have been based since the 1970s are simply false, from the beneficence of diversity to the white monopoly of racism and the irrelevance of race.”

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  90. p s c says:

    Corporal Jeffrey Goldberg, IDF (retired) retweeted a post from “Foreign Policy” editor David Rothkopf pointing out barbarity of Euro immigration policies and views of Europeans to immigrants from Africa.

    Going to be awful tough to co-op these types as allies in restricting immigration.

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  91. SFG says:
    @D. K.
    That one poll regarding illegal immigration to America is your supposed "proof" of your bald contention that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to [all historically] White countries?!?" Nice try! (Well, not really....)

    It does point out an elite-populace split, which does ring true.

    Most Jews I know lean left, but weren’t obsessed with open borders–other things like income inequality, global warming, and gay rights the Democrats give much higher billing tended to take precedent.

    The leadership I think is trying to curry favor with Hispanics or something. I think it’s stupid too.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    Think of it as a game of chess. What might that make Hispanics to the Jewish leadership?
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  92. SFG says:

    And there’s this here, which I find oddly catchy despite the lousy vocals:

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  93. D. K. says:
    @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    “Lastly, there is some sound ‘logic’ for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.”

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?

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    • Replies: @Numinous

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?
     
    That won't happen, barring serious natural/environmental/health catastrophes that affect almost the entire planet (like what's portrayed in the "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" movie.) Uncontrolled population growth might overstress the planet and bring about such catastrophes too, but I'm betting that once the immigrant wanderlust slows down to a trickle, and there aren't big prosperity gradients left in the world, population growth will naturally stabilize or go in reverse (as has been happening in all the rich countries since WWII.) I have not heard of any example where a population regressed in civilizational terms in the absence of a natural disaster. So unlike HBDers, I don't believe that mixing of genes by itself will inevitably result in a calamity for human civilization.
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  94. D. K. says:
    @SFG
    It does point out an elite-populace split, which does ring true.

    Most Jews I know lean left, but weren't obsessed with open borders--other things like income inequality, global warming, and gay rights the Democrats give much higher billing tended to take precedent.

    The leadership I think is trying to curry favor with Hispanics or something. I think it's stupid too.

    Think of it as a game of chess. What might that make Hispanics to the Jewish leadership?

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  95. http://planetearthherald.com/top-10-environmental-issues/ “Without a doubt the biggest issue facing the environment is over population of humans. All other major environmental issues flow from the very fact that we are over populating the planet”. Additionally, people in many under developed nations have a much lower per-capita ecology footprint than the western lifestyle. Mass immigration from the third world to the west will be a huge environmental strain. I’ve heard environmentalists say that there is no practical way that humanity could come close to supporting today’s third world population at today’s western lifestyles. Telling people they need to cut back on anything is never politically popular, so I give Al Gore big credit for pushing fertility management and population control in Africa.

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  96. One last post: http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/isiss-next-crusade-310406.html. ISIS is using boat immigration to conquer Rome and Italy and NYT is siding with ISIS?

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    • Replies: @Auntie Analogue
    My dear Massimo, did you miss my having said exactly that, and that the West's military meddling in Moslem lands exacerbates the refugee flow, in my comment No. 65?
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  97. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    In 1588 thousands of Hispanic migrant dreamers sailed from the mainland toward England. To the eternal shame of the xenophobic English, the Hispanic ships were repulsed and thousands of innocent migrant lives were lost.

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  98. D. K. says:
    @Southfarthing
    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data? Narratives (lists of selected claims) aren't reliable.

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson's vision of a borderless future, so I'm skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they're separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).

    It seems like a much broader problem than just Jews. Instead, most Jews seem to be part of the majority of Whites who are less enthusiastic for demographic replacement than elites.

    The poll that you pointed to was on the subject of illegal immigration to the United States, not about the subject of immigration to the United States, in general, let alone the subject of the immigration of non-Whites to all of the historically White nations. The break-out that was quoted was by religious affiliation, not ethnicity. The poll was commissioned and published by a group dedicated to immigration limits. The results show that people who claimed to be religiously Jewish were split on the issue of how best to deal with the problem of illegal immigration to the United States, making them, as a group, somewhat less welcoming to illegals than their own leaders. Nothing about the poll or its stated results support your bald claim that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to White countries.” Your inability to note or grasp that fact are hereby duly noted.

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    • Replies: @Southfarthing
    The poll was on all immigration, not just illegal immigration. View the question directly here.

    Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure.

    Those numbers are very clear: Jewish-Americans are more against immigration than for it.

    How could somebody possibly interpret those numbers as that Jewish-Americans support immigration?

    The people who do actually support immigration are elites of all backgrounds, hence Steve finding only 3 (0.75%) of the Forbes 400 have voiced opinions against uncontrolled immigration.
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  99. @Fredrik
    The Africans would never accept it. It's not like they don't have values and some things cannot be changed.

    The boats will still come whatever we do. The only possible way to stop it is to make sure that not a single African or Asian will be allowed to stay if they came by boat. Unfortunately that would have to mean that the military would have to help to repatriate them wherever we decide they arrived from.

    It’s against the interest of the Italians even to allow boats of refugees to land. Better to turn them back, by force if need be.

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  100. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Europe’s Duty on Migrants

    How about not forcing them to migrate? The migrants did not burn Libya to the ground NATO did.

    Why was it necessary to destroy Somalia?

    How about all the money the west assists in looting from African countries.

    And don’t forget Ukraine which is set to have a migration crisis.

    So step one is to stop forcing Africans to flee and to make it impossible for African leaders to have any wealth outside Africa.

    If you are looking for a successful model, why not consider the response by Japan Hong Kong ect to the Vietnamese boat people crisis? Basically prison camps with no hope of leaving except back to Vietnam. Btw, why did the west burn Vietnam and SE Asia to the ground?

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  101. Truth says:
    @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Quote #1 - “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho - "Actually not a view that aligns with any facts."

    Well Udolpho, you'd be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?

    Are you kiddn’ me? Udolpho is the biggest PUA in South Dakota. He ain’t got no stinkin wife!

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  102. @ Sean
    they don´t need a fake marriage. white european women are standing in lines to marry one african immigrant.

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    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    white european women are standing in lines to marry one african immigrant.

    Is this a clone of Whiskey?
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  103. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @notsaying
    "Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they’re fine with legal immigration."

    Yes, these people all say that stupidest things. And it's not just "these people" who are Republican politicians but it's most of America's elite.

    These supporters of mass migration have made numerous decisions that will lead to multiple domino effects that they themselves don't realize. Unfortunately for us, I think the real crunches on a lot of things won't be evident for another generation or two, so the same wrong things will continue being done for a long time.

    In a world of 9 billion people -- due to become 11 billion by around 2050 -- the countries with the highest living standards (the First World) will be put forced to defend themselves against the pressure to take in more people than they can handle.

    There can't be any "open door" in this situation. Anyone who pays attention realizes that the First World's reluctant to take more people, for the most part. You might get some countries to take in a combined extra 100,000 or 200,000 or something like that. Nothing like extra millions.

    Anybody who thinks the First World will taken in people by the millions per year is just nuts. Between the workers from Southern and Eastern Europe who've come in over the past 10-15 years and the various economic and social difficulties they've had with a much larger number of non-European people in their midst, a lot of voters in Northern Europe have about enough new people already.

    The people in Europe would vote out politicians who agreed to give a permanent home to massive influxes of people, especially since many of them are "economic refugees." Does the New York Times editorial board really not know all this or are they just playing dumb?

    No it’s not ‘nuts’.
    It definitely will happen. Britain’s appalling New Labour administration of 1997 – 2005 is proof enough of that.

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  104. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Most Britons now watching these appalling scenes unfold know instinctively that, eventually, which really means one or two election cycles, 5 to 10 years, that *most* of these invaders will end up living in Britain. And were talking of hundreds of thousands, if not millions here. Hence micro-celebrity Katie Hopkins’ rather intemperate outburst.
    This is, of course, due to the EU and its insistence on ‘open borders’ and ‘free movement’. In the course of time, the Italians will give the invaders the relevant papers, but rest assured they will not stay in Italy. I know enough of ‘Italian generosity’ for me to be dogmatic on that point – let me just say here that Italians are typical clannish low-trust low-altruism Mediterranean types.
    Anyhow the only hope Britain has got is UKIP which is pledging withdrawal from the EU. Alas, due to the iniquities of the British electoral system, UKIP will be lucky to get a handful of seats, if that. This despite the heroics of Nigel Farage and his good clear-cut clear thinking straight to the point speeches and sound bites. All other mainstream UK parties want to remain in the EU. Labour simply refuse to contemplate withdrawal. The Tories promise a referendum, but their word is as worthless as David Cameron himself. In any case big business will spend billions on a propaganda campaign to keep Britain in.

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  105. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    Yup. That’s precisely why Robert the Bruce and William Wallace fought so hard against the English invaders.

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  106. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @London Observer
    Trans-Mediterranean migration from Africa is going to be the final make-or-break issue for pro-immigration sentimentalists in Europe, and perhaps further afield. They know this.

    Alas, nothing has stopped them in the past, and even this horror show won’t stop them in the future.
    You must remember that in only a few short years, or perhaps even now, as it happens, the ‘ethnic vote’ will be big enough to decide elections in much of western Europe. For example, it might well be that the Conservative Party never manages to achieve a Westminster majority again.

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    • Replies: @London Observer
    You're right in that they will never change their minds, but they will become more isolated in their opinions. That will have an effect.

    Re. the ethnic vote: many Asians won't be keen on the prospect of black Africans migrating en masse to the UK. But admittedly this won't manifest itself in electoral terms.
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  107. Blobby5 says:

    I wonder if there will be a wild animal left on the continent before all this is through.

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  108. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    There’s no need to be alarmist. If 1/30 migrants are going to drown by trying to get to europe this way then migration by boat will be limited in scale because there aren’t enough extreme risk takers.

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  109. failing to allow the maximum number of immigrants is tantamount to failing to maximize Our Most Sacred Labor Supply, which means failing to maximize Our Most High and Holy GDP.

    Are you a commie, or what?

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  110. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Quote #1 - “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho - "Actually not a view that aligns with any facts."

    Well Udolpho, you'd be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?


    Quote #1 – “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho – “Actually not a view that aligns with any facts.”

    Well Udolpho, you’d be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?

    Yeah, I’ve never heard any intelligent person try to argue animals have free will and are capable of committing evil acts.

    Btw, has everyone seen this video out of South Africa? Campfires in the camp of saints. http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=015_1429344572

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  111. syonredux says: • Website
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa.

    Push-pull.Anti-Abortion conservatives in the USA work against reproduction control in Africa.But, at the same time, the PC Megaphone stays completely silent.The NYTIMES runs editorials and headline stories on Ferguson (the most important place in the world, evidently) but not on the desperate need to slow population growth in Black Africa.

    As with mass immigration to the USA, Right and Left are in tandem on this matter.

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    As with mass immigration to the USA, Right and Left are in tandem on this matter.

    I agree. I just suspect most readers of this blog are well aware of the way the left is contributing to the demographic disaster in Africa, but are unaware or ignore the damage social conservatives continue to do.
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  112. Numinous says:
    @D. K.
    "Lastly, there is some sound 'logic' for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge."

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?

    That won’t happen, barring serious natural/environmental/health catastrophes that affect almost the entire planet (like what’s portrayed in the “Dawn of the Planet of the Apes” movie.) Uncontrolled population growth might overstress the planet and bring about such catastrophes too, but I’m betting that once the immigrant wanderlust slows down to a trickle, and there aren’t big prosperity gradients left in the world, population growth will naturally stabilize or go in reverse (as has been happening in all the rich countries since WWII.) I have not heard of any example where a population regressed in civilizational terms in the absence of a natural disaster. So unlike HBDers, I don’t believe that mixing of genes by itself will inevitably result in a calamity for human civilization.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sorry, if you just consider the sheer numbers involved, not in the least in Africa and the Indian subcontinent, the enormous wealth gap that exists and how this unlikely to close significantly - and most importantly the acquiescence and agreement of the western political class to massive, uncontrolled third world immigration, and how this political acceptance will not change, despite the popularity of nationalist parties, then it is fairly certain that the mass influx of the third world into Europe will only accelerate in the future.
    , @D. K.
    Sorry, Comrade Numinous, but you missed my point completely. Feel free and welcome, however, to prove your Utopian bona fides, by breeding with a Kalahari Bushman's daughter, with an IQ of 60 or so.
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  113. Merema says:

    ISIL supporters in Libya just beheaded a whole group of Ethiopians/Eritrean would be migrants to Europe. It’s horrible. Africans have to get through to North Africa to get to Europe, and there lies the solution for Europe. It would be ironic if it is the threat of the pycho jihadists that would discourage Africans from their perilous journey via north africa.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/19/us-mideast-crisis-islamicstate-killings-idUSKBN0NA0IE20150419

    The bedouins are also terrible in their treatment of Africans trying to go to Israel-they literally burn them with hot plastic.

    Africans are poor, but they are not as poverty stricken, primitive, illiterate and isolated in their villages as they used to be, and ironically (my favorite word), that is why they are heading to Europe, Asia and the Middle East-they are now aware what is out there in the world, and confident of their ability to make it there. Besides, Africans have global family connections now,-their aunts and uncles that were previously given refugee status in the West, or previous generations that went on to the West on student visas and never went back home-think of Obama’s uncle in Boston. Than you have hundreds of thousand in Saudi Arabia that went on the Haj, and never went home, and have fanned out through out the region.

    Here in NYC, residents in the Bronx complain about the shipping containers the African immigrants park on the streets. That is how global and ambitous they are.

    http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120529/morrisania/shipping-containers-pit-west-african-immigrants-against-bronx-neighbors

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  114. @FF
    The Christians were thrown overboard by Muslims fleeing their hellholes for Christian countries...

    The Christians were thrown overboard by Muslims fleeing their hellholes for Christian countries…

    More to the point, some blacks were thrown overboard by other blacks, all of whom were fleeing their black hellholes for white countries.

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  115. @Lagertha
    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant. New nationalistic political parties have formed, and are gaining power in European parliaments. There really is no one group in charge to help new immigrants, and with most police not carrying guns in Europe, we are in for instability and chaos.

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands. Is this why the "zombie" movies/tv series have been so popular?

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands.

    Yes, this very thing was predicted back in the 1970s by the French writer Jean Raspail, in his novel The Camp of the Saints.

    But you seem to be very confused. You’re concerned that wealthy nations are going to drown in a deluge of immigrants from poor nations, but at the same time you find it “unsettling” that many European countries have growing movements in opposition to taking in all these immigrants.

    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    No, I am not confused at all. I understand the basis of the numerous parties in the Nordic countries. I also understand the rise of the nationalist parties. I predicted the rise of these parties, and, the growth of the neo-Nazi groups after 9/11 - by that time, people all over Europe were already grumbling about the Muslims in their countries...because of their behavior, not because they were there.

    However, some Muslims (the Kurds, for instance) integrated fairly well; many Bosnians went back home after things settled down - Bosnia, and its people, being one of the most clannish societies I believe. And, very blood-thirsty and full of revenge...as much as the Serbs.

    My feelings are irrelevant because I don't know a palatable solution a government in the "western world" would come up with to prevent massive amounts of poor, unskilled people to arrive in a country so remote culturally to them. USA & Europe will never allow streets to be filled with beggars or have people starving to death on the streets. And, building some sort of concentration camps/internment camps are never gonna happen.

    Most people in the states do not want to live in Alaska because of the cold and miserable climate, short summer, hard living if you are not wealthy, and few job prospects. The Nordic countries are similar, even if Alaska feels more mid 20th century. The Scandinavian countries (Norway excepted) have higher unemployment than the US....and no robust "Wall Street" industry, a SV, entertainment juggernaut like Hollywood/Sports TV. There are not enough entrepreneurs in Europe. Old industrial private companies were sold or pushed out of business decades ago. There are not enough factory jobs, stoop labor jobs, agricultural jobs (duh) in the Nordic countries. Cost of living is high, and northern Europeans are extremely frugal - they are poor consumers of frivolous and luxury goods. Taxes are twice as much as in the USA for an average earner. And, the taxes that uphold the social welfare programs are the heart of the resentment.

    So, if someone says they don't want migrants, or they feel migrants from Africa and Asia could be absorbed and it's the "right thing to do," it doesn't matter. Only island nations like Australia, NZ, or Iceland can sweep rickety boats from their coasts and take them back without the Associated Press, or the world noticing or witnessing it.
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  116. @Anonymous
    The Australian academic, Frank Salter, really has authored the ultimate response to this immigrationist madness.
    Just Google it.

    A nice review of Salter’s The War on Human Nature in Australia’s Political Culture: H-E-R-E !

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  117. @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    Yes, his followers have made it abundantly clear that Jesus hates white people and wants Western civilization destroyed.

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  118. @notsaying
    "Rand Paul and other GOP pols have said repeatedly that anyone who wants to come to America and work should be allowed to. And conservatives always say that the only thing that bothers them about illegal immigration is its illegality; they’re fine with legal immigration."

    Yes, these people all say that stupidest things. And it's not just "these people" who are Republican politicians but it's most of America's elite.

    These supporters of mass migration have made numerous decisions that will lead to multiple domino effects that they themselves don't realize. Unfortunately for us, I think the real crunches on a lot of things won't be evident for another generation or two, so the same wrong things will continue being done for a long time.

    In a world of 9 billion people -- due to become 11 billion by around 2050 -- the countries with the highest living standards (the First World) will be put forced to defend themselves against the pressure to take in more people than they can handle.

    There can't be any "open door" in this situation. Anyone who pays attention realizes that the First World's reluctant to take more people, for the most part. You might get some countries to take in a combined extra 100,000 or 200,000 or something like that. Nothing like extra millions.

    Anybody who thinks the First World will taken in people by the millions per year is just nuts. Between the workers from Southern and Eastern Europe who've come in over the past 10-15 years and the various economic and social difficulties they've had with a much larger number of non-European people in their midst, a lot of voters in Northern Europe have about enough new people already.

    The people in Europe would vote out politicians who agreed to give a permanent home to massive influxes of people, especially since many of them are "economic refugees." Does the New York Times editorial board really not know all this or are they just playing dumb?

    Anybody who thinks the First World will taken in people by the millions per year is just nuts.

    America is already taking in at least two million people a year between legal and illegal immigration. Soon, whites will be a minority in this country. And you believe that when non-whites are a majority of the population, and start having a much bigger say in national politics, that our politicians are going to massively reduce the number of non-whites coming here?

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  119. Svigor says:

    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    Yeah, everyone but the Jewish shot-callers.

    http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1509/

    http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1510/

    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data? Narratives (lists of selected claims) aren’t reliable.

    Now you have some data.

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  120. Svigor says:

    So how does a ladyboy society achieve a masculine solution? Look for a mass arrest of government officials and violent political upheaval that occurs overnight. A coup.

    Libs are doing everything they possibly can to make sure that day is as bloody as possible.

    Western civilisation is finished.

    Maybe it should be, at least for the time being. It’s what got us into this mess. And given a choice between my race and my culture, I know which one I pick, every time. Think about how controversial that last statement is, even on our side.

    Is this why the “zombie” movies/tv series have been so popular?

    Yes, in a broad sense. The “zombies” are the blank slate onto whom the viewer may project his “other,” the people he’ll be facing in hordes when all hell breaks loose.

    According to Jewish globalists, it wasn’t enough for Africans to push the Europeans out of Africa. Africans must follow Europeans back to Europe and take over.

    Btw, which group did most to mess up the Middle East and Libya that precipitated this massive crisis? There’s also a crisis of refugees in Ukraine and Russia. I wonder who messed that up.

    And it’s not like we wouldn’t see a long list of the same usual suspects making money in Africa hand over fist under the aegis of European colonization, were we to really look.

    There are 7 Islamic countries with higher GDPs per capita (PPP) in the IMF ranking than Israel.

    It’d make more sense for people like the Tsarnaev family to immigrate to their fabulously privileged co-religionists’ countries where they’d be much happier.

    But Israel’s a “nation of immigrants.” And “cognitively elite,” so they love open borders and mass immigration, natch.

    Lastly, there is some sound “logic” for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture

    I’m sure there is, if you’re, well, you.

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  121. bomag [AKA "doombuggy"] says:
    @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    Quote #1 - “I think people are consciously evil and animals are not.”

    Reply by Udolpho - "Actually not a view that aligns with any facts."

    Well Udolpho, you'd be wrong. Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?

    Ever had your money or wife stolen by a rabbit?

    Plenty of economic loss to rabbits (and raccoons, coyotes, et al); plenty of people lost to viruses, bacteria, et al.

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  122. Mr. Anon says:

    “syon says:

    “”By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.””

    Some part of me is still stunned that a Malthusian disaster of that magnitude is brewing, and no one is doing anything to stop it….”

    The manufacturers of machetes and Kalashnikov rifles are already hard on the job.

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  123. Svigor says:

    OSBI says that no explosives were found in Horton’s home and determined that the 911 call did not come from his house. They say that he is “fully cooperating with the on-going investigation.”

    This is what search warrants are for.

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  124. Svigor says:

    What’s interesting there is how the race of the shooter and the bullet-recipient even made it into the story.

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  125. bomag [AKA "doombuggy"] says:
    @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so.

    So the Greeks, Romans, Persians, etc had no such concepts? Wow.

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  126. Clarke says:

    OT: English chess great in trouble for saying that men are “hardwired” to be better chessplayers than women, and that we should “gracefully accept” this:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/20/nigel-short-uk-grandmaster-men-hardwired-better-chess-players-women

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  127. Mr. Anon says:

    “Numinous says:

    Lastly, there is some sound “logic” for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.”

    Yes, if only the different groups of the world could be welded into one and be as close in shared culture and outlook as were Tutsi and Hutu or Serb, Croat, and Bosnian, everything would be peachy.

    You are a deluded, foolish dreamer.

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    • Replies: @Numinous
    The key word that applies to assimilation is "gradually". Grouping the various populations of the world today sound ludicrous to you now, as it well may be. But grouping together Picards, Gascons, and Bretons into a "French" category would have sounded ludicrous to someone in Charlemagne's time (he of course was running an empire and didn't care whether people got along as long as they bowed to him.) Grouping together Russians, Greeks, Portugese, and Swedes under the category of Europeans would have sounded ludicrous to someone in the late Roman era, but it turned into a reality by the end of the Middle Ages. And so on and so on. No one is saying that Hutus, Bosnians, and Norwegians if forced to stay in one neighborhood tomorrow will learn to get along immediately. But in 300 years time, why not?

    Most things that exist in the modern world are the end product of deluded foolish dreams that were dreamed up a long time ago. So I have no problem being a deluded, foolish dreamer.
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  128. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa.

    OT: I was surprised to read in Mitch Horowitz’s One Simple Idea: How Positive Thinking Reshaped Modern Life (it was under $2 on Amazon), that Reagan wasn’t a Christian and was a big believer in UFOs, astrology, and other wacky New Age stuff. His comments in interviews to Hollywood reporters were eyebrow-raising. Personally I have no use for Reagan. From financialization to support of militant Mohammedanism.

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  129. Mr. Anon says:

    “iSteveFan says:

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.”

    Probably not. Ellis-Island-Schmaltz serves a particular function for the particular minority group which promotes it: reducing the founding majority stock into just one of many competing groups.

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  130. Jahangir says:
    @Anonymous
    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone - let alone brains - whatsoever.

    From this display of cowardice and stupidity in the Mediterranean it can now be more or less guaranteed for certain that Europe, including the eastern European EU states, will be predominantly a black and brown continent by the end of this century.
    Absolutely certain.

    Maybe that will bring all the Eastern Europeans to the United States, which would be pretty good, except for the fact that immigrating to the US from Eastern Europe is damn near impossible.

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  131. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @ABN

    Now you know more of the story of the prepper motivation. The decline in trust of officials and agencies is paced by the increase in unintentional self-parody displayed in so much of the media.
     
    Is prepping becoming more of a thing? I wouldn't be surprised.

    I've seen some segments of Doomsday Preppers on TV, and I can't help but suspect that some of these folks wouldn't mind at all if civilization were to collapse tomorrow. You can just imagine them thinking, "Thank goodness there won't be any diversity sensitivity training seminars in Bartertown!"

    It's a predictable and rational response to living in a society with major problems that can't be honestly discussed. Prepping may be the expression of a social critique that can't be expressed verbally in our society.

    What’s prepping?

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    What’s prepping?
    Google makes it pretty easy to answer questions like this for yourself.
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  132. @Anonymous
    The Philippines has a per capita GDP of about $2,700. It ranks about 120th among nations on most charts of wealth. That's Third World.

    It would also surprise many to learn it has almost 100,000,000 people too. 12th most populous in the world but no money or real hope for the most part, just the usual 1%.

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  133. @Anonymous
    The Philippines has a per capita GDP of about $2,700. It ranks about 120th among nations on most charts of wealth. That's Third World.

    Translation: Michelle Malkin aside, the Philippines are the Columbians/Honduras of Asia. They’re the Hispanic equivalent and sort of drag down the Asian average in education, IQ, etc.

    But then, they were a colony of Spain for several centuries. Certainly they were under Spanish yoke for far longer than they ever were under Japan.

    The point is that compared to Western nations who more than dabbled in Colonialism (British, Dutch, French, etc) Japan doesn’t have a lengthy history of having a lot of colonies and therefore they should have a right to self determination as to who they allow in past their borders and who they don’t permit, whether they be Koreans, Filipinos or anyone else in the region.

    Japan’s not down with the whole invite the world and in debt to the world. They like their nation just fine as is.

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  134. @Sean

    “Italians are compassionate people who love children and care for their poor and infirm. They watched the televised drowning of New Orleans in the fall of 2005 with horror and disgust. Most Europeans already have strong notions of American racism, implanted by years of televised imagery of police brutality, dogs set on civil rights marchers, the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., and the ugly fact of slavery at the nation’s core. As they watched the waters rise around the Louisiana Superdome, Italians’ native compassion was offended by the United States’ disregard for its poorest.” ― Nina Burleigh, The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox
     
    Italy is where the Communist Party became frighteningly strong. They convicted scientists for failing to predict an earthquake, Italy will give the immigrants status to remain. And then these overwhelmingly young and male Africans can go where they like within Europe and once they have become fathers or have a fake marriage they have a right to a family life, and will never be sent back.

    Souther Italians are typically left wing, think Mario Cuomo and Bill De Blasio’s maternal Italian ancestry is very South Italian. Northern Italians are typically right wing in terms of very pro-responsibility and individual freedom. Giuliani is a good example.

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  135. @Lagertha
    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the "open borders" countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization....the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries...and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing...with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    What is stopping us from counter-migrating? I say we let Maduro fly the incredibly beautiful, resource rich nation of Venezuela into the ground, then mass-migrate Anglos there and start over, this time with more big ass fences and machine gun nests. If you don’t mind a tropical climate, it’s hard to do much better. Then trickle down the rest of the continent after several generations, picking off countries one by one. Easy.

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    • Replies: @bomag
    counter-migrating

    Excellent.

    Also, we should start stripping certain criminals and traitors of their US citizenship and sending them into exile.
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  136. @Trayvon Zimmerman

    But now Italians and Europeans shouldn’t have their own lands?
     
    Of course not. That's the whole point of diversity. Racism must be eliminated from the entire planet, and racism is the existence of white people.

    That’s right. Diversity is the final solution to the white problem. Of course, eliminating whites actually reduces diversity, but why let statistical geek talk ruin the fun.

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  137. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    ‘Duty’ or ‘command’(and by whom)?

    Btw, don’t black Africans have a duty to make their own societies better?

    Or are blacks only supposed to mess up their own and loot the wealth of others?

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  138. @Anonymous
    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone - let alone brains - whatsoever.

    From this display of cowardice and stupidity in the Mediterranean it can now be more or less guaranteed for certain that Europe, including the eastern European EU states, will be predominantly a black and brown continent by the end of this century.
    Absolutely certain.

    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone – let alone brains – whatsoever.

    The problem is they do have brains, a lot of brains. Foisting this cataclysm on Europeans, recruiting astonishing numbers of Europeans to the cause of their own demise, and tongue-tying skeptics into effective acquiescence is an act of pure genius – evil genius, to be sure, but genius all the same.

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  139. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    … Unless Europe acts to reform its policy on migration, 2015 could be the deadliest year yet for the thousands of people who fled to Libya from conflict-torn regions across the Middle East and Africa, only to find Libya equally dangerous.
     
    I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until - surprise! - they realized it was, well, Libya.

    “I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until – surprise! – they realized it was, well, Libya.”

    Then make Europe dangerous to them as well and they’ll go back to Africa.

    If Africa has no duty to make itself nice for blacks, why do Europeans have this duty?

    Blacks are not obligated to fellow blacks but white people are obligated to blacks?

    White nations must demographically murder themselves in their duty to blacks who have no sense of duty to themselves?

    How about every affluent globo-lib family take in 5 poor black Africans into their homes?
    Duty.

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  140. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    Do Jews who have gained most freedom and riches in the West have a duty to serve and defend the West?

    Apparently not.

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  141. @ABN
    Yeah, if you think Ellis Island schmaltz is a self-serving retcon, just wait until we have Grandpa-Was-Living-In-the-Shadows schmaltz. Schoolkids will be taught that nothing was more quintessentially American than violating American immigration laws. Our "civic religion" will go from being merely cheesy and naive to being anarchic and pathologically antisocial.

    Yeah, if you think Ellis Island schmaltz is a self-serving retcon, just wait until we have Grandpa-Was-Living-In-the-Shadows schmaltz.

    Nah, Latinos don’t have the long-lived historical consciousness of Jews. At most their memory of grandpa will be something like “Yeah, I think it was kinda hard back then, but whatever.” And then, too, latinos are generally just happy to get away with the daylight robbery they’re knowingly engaging in. They lack the burning conviction that no matter what actions they have undertaken it’s the rest of the world that has wronged them (and must pay) that is central to Jewish identity.

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    • Replies: @ABN
    Perhaps, but what you've said about Hispanic attitudes might also have applied to blacks under ideal circumstances. Of course, it doesn't apply to blacks, because the present climate encourages black resentment of whites. Why should it be any different with Hispanics? If Rio Grande schmaltz is as useful to the liberal elite of tomorrow as Ellis Island schmaltz and Infinity Years a Slave are to the liberal elite of today, we'll have no shortage of it.
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  142. Tom_R says:

    START FIRING AT THE SHIPS OF INVADING ALIENS–THAT IS THE DUTY OF THE POLITICIANS.

    Because this is an invasion, an act of war, and the proper thing for Europeans to do is fire at the ships of invading aliens and sink them all.

    That is its right and duty.

    Once the invaders know the ships are being sunk, they will sit down and try to make a better life in their own country instead of trying to invade Europe or USA.

    Alienism is a crime against humanity.

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  143. @Dave Pinsen
    The long term solution is the further economic development of Africa, and the news hasn't been all bad in that regard. Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    In that context, supporting African refugees in Europe makes little sense. Think about how much further the same money could go in Africa. Give it to someone like Paul Kagame in return for taking in migrants.

    The long term solution is the further economic development of Africa, and the news hasn’t been all bad in that regard. Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    Yes Africa is slowly improving, thought it remains way behind the rest of the globe and will remain way behind for a very long time to come, and yes birthrates are slowly, excruciatingly slowly, beginning to reduce (ie from TFR 7+ to 5 or so, on average), but this isn’t actually a “solution” to the problems Europeans face at all. L. America is vastly wealthier than Africa and most of it is at or under replacement fertility, but it’s still perfectly capable of sending millions upon millions immigrants. Africa’s slowly growing prosperity and slowly reducing fertility will do nothing to prevent an immigration onslaught from that continent.

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  144. Wilkey says:

    The latest news this morning is that two more ships carrying about 400 people have sent distress signals for help. Both ships were reported to be “near the Libyan coast.”

    But somehow, for some reason, it is the responsibility of Europe to rescue these “refugees.”

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    • Replies: @Ed
    It's a strategem now. Why risk sailing all the way to Italy when you can go a few miles off the Libyan coast and have the EU pick you up? I'm just waiting for ISIS to start packing some boats full of fighters, send out a distress signal and have the EU deposit them in Italy.

    Britain actually has the most sensible position on migration in Europe. They don't want to do rescues but they won't be able to hold out for long. They'll cave after folks call them evil for letting poor people drown.
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  145. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I remember, a few years back, Thailand was being plagued by so-called ‘boat people’ – in this case Rohingya Muslim ethnic Bengali fleeing from Burma, who sailed boats across the Gulf of Siam to Thailand where they attempted to claim ‘asylum’. Why they never returned to Bangladesh, I do not know.
    Anyhow, the Thais, an ethnicity I like and admire, would have none of it. The Thai navy simply attached tow-ropes to the prows of the Rohingya skiffs and pulled the skiffs far out to sea with motor launches, without the Rohingya ever getting sand on their feet. They did this on every single occasion. Needless to say, no Rohingya ‘refugee problem’ ever emerged in Thailand. Also needless to say those stupid bastards and shitheads who write for ‘The Economist’ magazine fulminated and spluttered. Happily no one of importance and no one in general took a blind bit of notice or gave a damn. Just the way it should be, in fact.

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  146. @syonredux

    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa.
     
    Push-pull.Anti-Abortion conservatives in the USA work against reproduction control in Africa.But, at the same time, the PC Megaphone stays completely silent.The NYTIMES runs editorials and headline stories on Ferguson (the most important place in the world, evidently) but not on the desperate need to slow population growth in Black Africa.

    As with mass immigration to the USA, Right and Left are in tandem on this matter.

    As with mass immigration to the USA, Right and Left are in tandem on this matter.

    I agree. I just suspect most readers of this blog are well aware of the way the left is contributing to the demographic disaster in Africa, but are unaware or ignore the damage social conservatives continue to do.

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  147. @Sean

    Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush’s reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa
     
    His father was so keen on population control he was known as known as 'Rubbers Bush' in Congress.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue
     
    Yeah, the papist plot to promote polygyny in black Africans and the demographic situation in northern Italy and Spain (which have the lowest birth rates in the world) really are cases in point.

    Yeah, the papist plot to promote polygyny in black Africans and the demographic situation in northern Italy and Spain (which have the lowest birth rates in the world) really are cases in point

    The demographic situation in Italy and Spain reflects the fact that the Catholic Church has lost all influence and prestige there, just as it is rapidly losing influence and prestige in Poland and Quebec (which also have disastrously low birth rates). Apparently the Church’s plan is to make up for these losses by discouraging any attempts to stop Black Africans from breeding. Great for the Church, not so great for humanity.

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    • Replies: @Mr Curious
    But those black Africans are Muslim. They will only displace the native European Catholics, thus exacerbating the low Spanish / Italian birth rates.
    , @AP
    The demographic situation in Italy and Spain reflects the fact that the Catholic Church has lost all influence and prestige there, just as it is rapidly losing influence and prestige in Poland and Quebec (which also have disastrously low birth rates).

    Much more true of Quebec than of Poland. Poland's birth rate collapse largely has to do with many young people moving freely to the West to earn money. Poland retains very low divorce and abortion rates.
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  148. Obviously an alliance of European nations should conquer, err, administer, Libya or perhaps Chad, since it is a bit further away and landlocked and create a haven for Africans in Africa.

    To diffuse liberal objections, the new colony, err, safe have, could allow gay marriage, affirmative action, campus-style speech codes and the like.

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  149. robother says:
    @Lagertha
    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the "open borders" countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization....the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries...and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing...with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    The valuation of the individual over the tribe, the willingness to empathize with the Other, to accord the Other the same legal rights as we enjoy, is our tragic flaw. We created a world-wide market, the tremendous prosperity that comes from high-trust longer investment horizons, a world-wide web of communication, commerce and travel, and medical advancements, all based on those traits.
    But it is a system fatally vulnerable to populations that do not (and maybe cannot) share those traits, who see only the material prosperity (all the clearer thanks to media and the internet) and move instinctively towards it.

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  150. J1234 says:

    I think the Europeans at large will see through this obvious ruse by the media and the EU leadership. The boat sank because the migrants themselves tipped it over. The migrants tipped it over because they were stupid. And they got on the boat in the first place because Europe has been far too willing to let impoverished non-Europeans in.

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  151. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    First job should be to deal with the internal enemy, those who are standing on shore welcoming the invaders. They are sending the message that if the invaders manage to jump the hurdles then they are home free. Next is to make sure that the message gets out that invaders all fail. No one tries to infiltrate N Korea since it would result in a very bad experience. Liberal humanitarian values are only applicable within the first world and can’t be extended to third worlders who have no such conceptions.

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  152. Shawn says:

    Japan, China, and Korea aren’t exactly chopping at the bit to get these 3rd worlders. European countries need to break free of the EU and UN and grow a backbone, like Israel has. Of course, it’s much easier when the media isn’t ran by the hostile hypocritical elite.

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  153. Ed says:
    @Wilkey
    The latest news this morning is that two more ships carrying about 400 people have sent distress signals for help. Both ships were reported to be "near the Libyan coast."

    But somehow, for some reason, it is the responsibility of Europe to rescue these "refugees."

    It’s a strategem now. Why risk sailing all the way to Italy when you can go a few miles off the Libyan coast and have the EU pick you up? I’m just waiting for ISIS to start packing some boats full of fighters, send out a distress signal and have the EU deposit them in Italy.

    Britain actually has the most sensible position on migration in Europe. They don’t want to do rescues but they won’t be able to hold out for long. They’ll cave after folks call them evil for letting poor people drown.

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  154. Another “adventuress”…

    USA Today, 04/20/15 – Blake Griffin has child with mother of Matt Leinart’s son

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/09/blake-griffin-has-child-with-mother-of-matt-leinarts-son

    Griffin announced Monday that he and former USC basketball player Brynn Cameron had a baby boy named Ford Wilson Cameron-Griffin, Blake’s first child…Cameron was previously in a relationship with former USC quarterback Matt Leinart while in college, and the two have a six-year-old son together named Cole…

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  155. Wilkey says:

    “Britain actually has the most sensible position on migration in Europe…They’ll cave after the May elections are safely behind them.

    FTFY.

    In one week, April 10-17, 13,500 “refugees” were rescued. That’s in early Spring. At that rate the number of boat people could easily surpass a million this year.

    This has to be the deciding moment. Either Europe caves and lets everyone flood in, or they learn to grow a backbone and stem the flow once and for all. Frankly I’m not hopeful.

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  156. I think Sailer is getting a bit too obsessive about Jews and Israel. Yeah, certainly there are a lot of hypocrites among America’s Jewish elite who are fine with nationalisn in Israel, but promote mass immigration for Europe and the US. But the situation isn’t quite the same in Europe. There’s a lot of anti-Israel sentiment among the leftie bien-pensants in Europe. Most of it concerns Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, but I’ve already seen harsh criticism (on Franco-German tv channel ARTE for example) of the way Israel treats African “refugees” and “asylum seekers”.
    So pointing out Jewish hypocrisy concerning immigration probably doesn’t make much sense in Europe because many European do-gooders already regard Israel as a “racist” pariah state anyway.

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  157. Alfa158 says:
    @Christo
    The parking inspector who was going to ticket me in Syracusa Sicily was sporting a 9mm glock. Very smart uniform too for a parking inspector.

    The people here are more resilient than we give them credit for.

    Quite true, I travel a lot in Europe and the unarmed cop is pretty much confined to the UK. I’ve seen meter maids in Italy who were packing. They haven’t gotten armed up to quite the exent of US yet, and they seem to be much less willing to shoot, but that may be because the criminals are less armed so they don’t have to use their guns as often.
    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city polce force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. And not even pistol round carbine versions, these are 5.56 30 round magazine military rifles. What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running redlights?

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    • Replies: @Zed, Lord of the Brutals
    The police are becoming the standing army the FF's warned us about. The increasing Federalization under the auspices of "civil rights" and other contrived nonsense is worrisome.
    , @Lurker
    Currently most British police are unarmed, only a few are routinely armed (some in special units) but its something of a myth that that they were always unarmed, they were as far as everyday duty was concerned but they certainly had access to firearms if needed.

    I still find it surprising to see cops carrying while picking up a can of coke and a sandwich in the local shop, that was unheard of 20 years ago, now it's normal. Still, it's the price we pay for the manifest benefits of diversity.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city police force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. . . .What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running red lights?

    Maybe the police in your little beach city are concerned that students from historically black colleges and universities might decide to start holding their spring break Freakniks there. Better safe than sorry.
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  158. I’ll explain what’s happening.

    If Europe doesn’t take these refugees, many will die or go back home or settle in North Africa. Some will choose another option – they will attempt to cross into Israel. Then suddenly Israel will be confronted with a crisis. Either the Israelis can choose to take in the refugees or face international condemnation for being heartless to these suffering African migrants.

    Israel is currently trying to generate support for aggressive action against Iran. The last thing Israel needs is a humanitarian crisis that makes it look barbaric. That doesn’t advance the narrative of Israel being the beacon of hope and freedom in the Middle East.

    So the New York Times wants the European Union to take these refugees, so the refugees don’t wander into Israeli territory. Being a mostly Jewish-owned newspaper, the NYT likely is coordinating with the Netanyahu government and AIPAC to get out the message that Europe needs to take in the refugees.

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication, then this editorial makes sense. I’m not saying that liberal ideology isn’t a contributing factor, but my guess is that this is primarily about helping Israel to avert a diplomatic crisis.

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    • Replies: @Massimo Heitor

    Then suddenly Israel will be confronted with a crisis. Either the Israelis can choose to take in the refugees or face international condemnation for being heartless to these suffering African migrants.
     
    That isn't some future what-if scenario, it has happened several times. Israel expelled peaceful Black African immigrants seeking work with extreme prejudice. The deportations were protested and some tried to build negative media coverage but Israel has been way more savvy and successful at controlling media and suppressing international criticisms. I can't blame them. Europe needs to follow suit.
    , @International Jew

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication
     
    You're overthinking this.

    First of all, Israel wouldn't make such a great first step to Europe because where do they go after Israel? Lebanon? Syria? And then Turkey? Those are bad, bad places for Africans to be wandering around.

    Second of all, the Times is quite hostile to Israel and it's reported unfavorably on Israel's efforts to rid itself of the large population of African illegals who entered before the erection of the recent fence.
    , @BigGaySteve
    Now Now all media isn't owned by Jews. Carlos Slims owns some of it. It is odd they all agree that Israel should have sealed borders but ever other white nation should double down on dumbing down.
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  159. @JohnnyWalker123
    I'll explain what's happening.

    If Europe doesn't take these refugees, many will die or go back home or settle in North Africa. Some will choose another option - they will attempt to cross into Israel. Then suddenly Israel will be confronted with a crisis. Either the Israelis can choose to take in the refugees or face international condemnation for being heartless to these suffering African migrants.

    Israel is currently trying to generate support for aggressive action against Iran. The last thing Israel needs is a humanitarian crisis that makes it look barbaric. That doesn't advance the narrative of Israel being the beacon of hope and freedom in the Middle East.

    So the New York Times wants the European Union to take these refugees, so the refugees don't wander into Israeli territory. Being a mostly Jewish-owned newspaper, the NYT likely is coordinating with the Netanyahu government and AIPAC to get out the message that Europe needs to take in the refugees.

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication, then this editorial makes sense. I'm not saying that liberal ideology isn't a contributing factor, but my guess is that this is primarily about helping Israel to avert a diplomatic crisis.

    Then suddenly Israel will be confronted with a crisis. Either the Israelis can choose to take in the refugees or face international condemnation for being heartless to these suffering African migrants.

    That isn’t some future what-if scenario, it has happened several times. Israel expelled peaceful Black African immigrants seeking work with extreme prejudice. The deportations were protested and some tried to build negative media coverage but Israel has been way more savvy and successful at controlling media and suppressing international criticisms. I can’t blame them. Europe needs to follow suit.

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  160. Kylie says:

    I see the NYT is being disingenuous as always.

    The editorial’s title is “Europe’s Duty on Migrants” when given the content, it should be “Europe’s Duty to Migrants”.

    Don’t even get me started on “migrants”.

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  161. Kylie says:

    I see the NYT is being disingenuous as always.

    The editorial’s title is “Europe’s Duty on Migrants” when given the content, it should be “Europe’s Duty to Migrants”.

    Don’t even get me started on “migrants”.

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    • Replies: @jimB
    Last time I checked, the stand alone continent of Africa was run entirely by Africans. What duty could the EU possibly have to the African refugees decades after the end of colonialism? The Europeans who tried to stay in Africa and maintain the food supply were treated in the most savage and despicable ways. European businessmen had their wealth appropriated. Let the Chinese, who are currently the big global beneficiaries of Africa's raw materials, solve this immigrant problem. They have a big navy now. Let them scoop up refugees and settle them in China's big cities. It will take at least a century for the refugees to out populate the natives so no need for concern.
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  162. @Lagertha
    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant. New nationalistic political parties have formed, and are gaining power in European parliaments. There really is no one group in charge to help new immigrants, and with most police not carrying guns in Europe, we are in for instability and chaos.

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands. Is this why the "zombie" movies/tv series have been so popular?

    Given the timeline, I’d say it was originally an allegory for civil unrest and riots of the Watts & Detroit type.

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  163. Lurker says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Japan isn't taking them in anytime soon, either. Like Australia Japan is also an island so they should be safe from the deluge at present time. Colonizers of the third world? Korea and the Philippines are now part of the third world?

    Seriously?

    And Britain is an island but we are taking over 5700 per week and thats net! Gross immigration is even higher. Of course many incomers are white Europeans and are not too problematic and yes, some emigration is a troubling loss of enrichment too but the overall picture is grim.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    The whole concept of "net immigration" is a fraud. It means that if Britain takes in 100 000 Africans and 100 000 British people emigrate during the same period, that's zero net immigration!
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  164. Italy’s Mare Nostrum marine rescue program

    A more honest name would have been “mare eorum”.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    A more honest name would have been “mare eorum”.
     
    Yeah, sponsored by Italia "patria earum".
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  165. MLK says:

    “Europe’s Duty on Migrants”

    This usage is tellingly incorrect. There is a “duty on” something when writing of an import duty. It’s rather obvious why The New York Times chose not to accurately title this editorial “Europe’s Duty to Migrants,” since there is none.

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    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    I think the correct title is "White Man's Burden".
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  166. @Alfa158
    Quite true, I travel a lot in Europe and the unarmed cop is pretty much confined to the UK. I've seen meter maids in Italy who were packing. They haven't gotten armed up to quite the exent of US yet, and they seem to be much less willing to shoot, but that may be because the criminals are less armed so they don't have to use their guns as often.
    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city polce force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. And not even pistol round carbine versions, these are 5.56 30 round magazine military rifles. What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running redlights?

    The police are becoming the standing army the FF’s warned us about. The increasing Federalization under the auspices of “civil rights” and other contrived nonsense is worrisome.

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  167. Lurker says:
    @Alfa158
    Quite true, I travel a lot in Europe and the unarmed cop is pretty much confined to the UK. I've seen meter maids in Italy who were packing. They haven't gotten armed up to quite the exent of US yet, and they seem to be much less willing to shoot, but that may be because the criminals are less armed so they don't have to use their guns as often.
    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city polce force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. And not even pistol round carbine versions, these are 5.56 30 round magazine military rifles. What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running redlights?

    Currently most British police are unarmed, only a few are routinely armed (some in special units) but its something of a myth that that they were always unarmed, they were as far as everyday duty was concerned but they certainly had access to firearms if needed.

    I still find it surprising to see cops carrying while picking up a can of coke and a sandwich in the local shop, that was unheard of 20 years ago, now it’s normal. Still, it’s the price we pay for the manifest benefits of diversity.

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  168. @JohnnyWalker123
    I'll explain what's happening.

    If Europe doesn't take these refugees, many will die or go back home or settle in North Africa. Some will choose another option - they will attempt to cross into Israel. Then suddenly Israel will be confronted with a crisis. Either the Israelis can choose to take in the refugees or face international condemnation for being heartless to these suffering African migrants.

    Israel is currently trying to generate support for aggressive action against Iran. The last thing Israel needs is a humanitarian crisis that makes it look barbaric. That doesn't advance the narrative of Israel being the beacon of hope and freedom in the Middle East.

    So the New York Times wants the European Union to take these refugees, so the refugees don't wander into Israeli territory. Being a mostly Jewish-owned newspaper, the NYT likely is coordinating with the Netanyahu government and AIPAC to get out the message that Europe needs to take in the refugees.

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication, then this editorial makes sense. I'm not saying that liberal ideology isn't a contributing factor, but my guess is that this is primarily about helping Israel to avert a diplomatic crisis.

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication

    You’re overthinking this.

    First of all, Israel wouldn’t make such a great first step to Europe because where do they go after Israel? Lebanon? Syria? And then Turkey? Those are bad, bad places for Africans to be wandering around.

    Second of all, the Times is quite hostile to Israel and it’s reported unfavorably on Israel’s efforts to rid itself of the large population of African illegals who entered before the erection of the recent fence.

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    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    If the Times were hostile to Israel, they would be running daily editorials about Israel's racist immigration, marriage and citizenship laws, as it did about South Africa, with it regularly reminding people that it's a nation built on stolen land; and, further, that our support for Israel has caused us nothing but trouble ever since. To say the good folks who run the NY Times are conflicted is an understatement. I wonder what it is about them?
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  169. @D. K.
    The poll that you pointed to was on the subject of illegal immigration to the United States, not about the subject of immigration to the United States, in general, let alone the subject of the immigration of non-Whites to all of the historically White nations. The break-out that was quoted was by religious affiliation, not ethnicity. The poll was commissioned and published by a group dedicated to immigration limits. The results show that people who claimed to be religiously Jewish were split on the issue of how best to deal with the problem of illegal immigration to the United States, making them, as a group, somewhat less welcoming to illegals than their own leaders. Nothing about the poll or its stated results support your bald claim that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration to White countries." Your inability to note or grasp that fact are hereby duly noted.

    The poll was on all immigration, not just illegal immigration. View the question directly here.

    Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure.

    Those numbers are very clear: Jewish-Americans are more against immigration than for it.

    How could somebody possibly interpret those numbers as that Jewish-Americans support immigration?

    The people who do actually support immigration are elites of all backgrounds, hence Steve finding only 3 (0.75%) of the Forbes 400 have voiced opinions against uncontrolled immigration.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    Cf. my reply to 'AnotherDad' [supra], who had likewise replied to your earlier comment; both his reply to you and my reply to him were posted before Steve got around to posting your earlier reply to me, to which I am replying, here and now.

    In short, your data in no way support your conclusion!

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  170. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    Black tides gush out of black vaginal dams, and it’s the DUTY of white Europe to be drowned in a SEA OF BLACKNESS.

    White men must open the floodgates so that white women’s wombs will be flooded with
    black sea-men.

    This is what globalism has in store for white folks in America and EU.

    But the main priority of GOP?

    Side with Sheldon Adelson against Iran.

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  171. Wilkey says:

    I don’t know why Israel isn’t taking in boat people by the hundreds of thousands. They love demonizing other countries who refuse to admit boat people.

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  172. “Obviously Europe is the safer place to be”

    at this rate, not for long.

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  173. Once a nation achieves a critical mass of lefties and non-whites, is it true that that nation is finished? The lefties WANT to destroy the sense of nationhood and the non-whites don’t care because they don’t see it as their country anyway but rather as a host to bleed dry.

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  174. @International Jew

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication
     
    You're overthinking this.

    First of all, Israel wouldn't make such a great first step to Europe because where do they go after Israel? Lebanon? Syria? And then Turkey? Those are bad, bad places for Africans to be wandering around.

    Second of all, the Times is quite hostile to Israel and it's reported unfavorably on Israel's efforts to rid itself of the large population of African illegals who entered before the erection of the recent fence.

    If the Times were hostile to Israel, they would be running daily editorials about Israel’s racist immigration, marriage and citizenship laws, as it did about South Africa, with it regularly reminding people that it’s a nation built on stolen land; and, further, that our support for Israel has caused us nothing but trouble ever since. To say the good folks who run the NY Times are conflicted is an understatement. I wonder what it is about them?

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  175. @Dave Pinsen

    … Unless Europe acts to reform its policy on migration, 2015 could be the deadliest year yet for the thousands of people who fled to Libya from conflict-torn regions across the Middle East and Africa, only to find Libya equally dangerous.
     
    I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until - surprise! - they realized it was, well, Libya.

    “they realized it was”

    NO FREE EVERYTHING, HOUSING, FOOD, EDUCATION, ALL FREE FREE FREE

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  176. Lagertha says:
    @Jenova
    Italians aren't worried about this situation because these migrants all want to go elsewhere, mostly to the countries of NW Europe. They're just passing through.

    yes, this is true. It is well known that the Nordic countries have the greatest safety nets/social programs. Yet, these are the areas that have an increasing undertow of resentment of foreigners since citizens pay a flat tax (much higher than Americans) according to their income and assets. And, unemployment rocks back and forth between 8-10% (not in oil-rich Norway).

    Every summer I detect/read about more and more disgust of “freeloaders” with their “apartheid religion” taking every advantage and crying “racism!” if they are not given a free apartment with more than 4 bedrooms (unheard of in D/S/N/F/I) for their large broods.

    There has been more and more violence committed by Muslim youth against Finnish youth, for instance…assaults on girls, AND, beating up boys, too. Most of the refugees for the last 20 years are Somalis…and the parents basically, refuse to let their youth mingle with ethnic Finns. Some of the other Muslim youth from other countries do interact, and, are like on soccer teams together, and have little to no friction with other youth. Somalis have been there for a generation already, but still, it is very apparent that they stick together. These are also the countries where cops don’t pack guns when these violent fights between youths errupt.

    It’s weird, but even little populated Iceland has been forced to take refugees. I was hoping the long winters and dreariness, which is the north, would repel a continued flow of refugees and Roma people to the Nordic countries.

    It’s too bad Vladimir doesn’t feel like embracing all these refugees/economic opportunists since Russia has been losing population for sometime now! And, the beaches of Socchi or Crimea are delightful.

    - a total side issue: Has anyone else noticed that the uber-wealthy have all bought second or third homes in HAWAII? I mean, Ellison bought an entire island! It reminds me of “The Colony,” at the end of the movie, “Children of Men,” or “I am Legend.”

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    • Replies: @Jenova
    This is why concern expressed here about Italy being overwhelmed is misguided. Although a wealthy country its less so than other European countries, and its welfare state is much less generous, especially since the late economic downturn. There are also cultural factors in play. I remember reading somewhere that in the southern parts of the country migrants were in danger of being literally enslaved and used as forced labor by the local organized crime networks. These folks aren't staying around.
    , @Marty
    You're a millenial, right? You're the first person I've ever seen who carries over the "like" filler of her speech into her writing.
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  177. @Christo
    The parking inspector who was going to ticket me in Syracusa Sicily was sporting a 9mm glock. Very smart uniform too for a parking inspector.

    The people here are more resilient than we give them credit for.

    Then why have they put an African in charge of their immigration policy and, under her urging, adopted birthright citizenship for Italy?

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  178. Buddwing says:

    I have often wondered at the provincialism of people like the NYT Editorial board. Have they never looked across the fields of people encamped north of Mumbai, living under black plastic garbage bags, under a haze of smoke from fires fed with cow dung, and asked what place could have been so bad that these people have come here to better their lives? Have they ever asked themselves “What do I owe any of the two dozen children trailing me down the sidewalk asking for something?” and “What do I owe this leper?”

    Salman Rushdie talked about having city eyes in India. You need to develop these to live there:

    “When you have city eyes you cannot see the invisible people, the men with elephantiasis of the balls and the beggars in boxcars don’t impinge on you, and the concrete sections of future drainpipes don’t look like dormitories. My mother lost her city eyes and the newness of what she was seeing made her flush, newness like a hailstorm pricking her cheeks. Look, my God, those beautiful children have black teeth! Would you believe…girl children baring their nipples! How terrible, truly! And, Allah-tobah, heaven forfend, sweeper women with — no! untouchables, sweet Allah!…and cripples everywhere, mutilated by loving parents to ensure them of a lifelong income from begging…yes, beggars in boxcars, grown men with babies’ legs, in crates on wheels, made out of discarded roller-skates and old mango boxes.”

    Sentimentality in the face of the horror of other people’s lives seems to be all that most people can muster. That and the vague sense that it must all be impossibly far away and really somebody else’s responsibility.

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  179. @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    Numinous:

    You’re a true seer. You and your family and loved ones go first – blending and being eliminated, that is.

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  180. NOTA says:
    @ABN

    Now you know more of the story of the prepper motivation. The decline in trust of officials and agencies is paced by the increase in unintentional self-parody displayed in so much of the media.
     
    Is prepping becoming more of a thing? I wouldn't be surprised.

    I've seen some segments of Doomsday Preppers on TV, and I can't help but suspect that some of these folks wouldn't mind at all if civilization were to collapse tomorrow. You can just imagine them thinking, "Thank goodness there won't be any diversity sensitivity training seminars in Bartertown!"

    It's a predictable and rational response to living in a society with major problems that can't be honestly discussed. Prepping may be the expression of a social critique that can't be expressed verbally in our society.

    Good news: no more diversity training at work

    Bad news: starvation, plague, and rule by warlords.

    Hmmm, that’s a tough choice….

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  181. @Southfarthing

    The common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.
     
    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    > Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    First off that’s not what the poll says. You can barely get to 50% on “immigration too high”.

    But yes, a lot of Jews quite reasonable folks, and provide a reasonable answer on immigration when posed as a normal policy issue. (All anyone has to do is open one’s eyes to see high immigration is making the US more unpleasant.)

    But …
    –> you’ll note that the Jewish figures are 20+ points more “left” (pro-immigration, open-borders) compared to other whites

    –> every formal Jewish organization, the elites, leaders, ethnic spokespeople are rabidly pro-immigration

    The key point is not immigration as a policy-wonk issue like seat-belt laws or charter schools, it’s ideology–Jewish minoritarianism.

    Basically, most Jews believe–at some deep level–that Jews have the right to live in any nation. That no nation should be allowed to keep Jews out. And that in any country, Jews must be accepted by the majority. And that any attempts to exclude them are racist!, anti-semitic–fundamentally immoral and illegitimate. In other words, they don’t believe in the legitimacy of organic nations.

    This is a quite rational ideology for a middle man minority to hold. However, it’s an extremely nasty, hostile ideology to the interests of 99%** of the world that wants to live in their own nations, amongst their own people, following their own traditions and culture, in charge of their own destiny. (** I’ll grant it’s not 99% if you consider the large chunk–20% or so–of 3rd world peoples who’d like to emmigrate to a white nation in order to get a better life. But those people mostly would rather stay in their own nations with their own people and culture … except for the superior economic prospects in white nations.)

    That’s the issue: Whether people actually have the *right* to their own nations.

    And you aren’t going to find Hollywood any majoritarian, pro-national narratives. You’ve get the 221st movie about the Holocaust, or slavery\Jim Crow\civil rights\evil-southern-redneck. But you’re not going to find a movie sympathetic say to California white people’s annoyance and despair seeing their neighborhood become a barrio, their kids schools become foreign, America hostile enclaves. Or showcase the drama of a white family dealing with a black home-invasion, rape. Or even a white co-ed gang raped by black football players at Big State U. You won’t find a sympathetic portrayal of Italians struggling as their community fills with black refugees and becomes an unsafe, African, crime ridden slum. Or much less, Italians taking the law into their own hands to try and drive out the Africans. Or heroically taking to civilian patrolling of their coasts to drive off African invaders.

    Those narratives are far more realistic and legitimate than the minorities-are-sacred, diversity-is-beautiful pablum Hollywood spews out. But majorities defending their nation, race, culture is a non-starter.

    Again, that’s the real issue here–minoritarianism. Do people actually have a right to their own nations?

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    Even the lone question in that 2009 poll, as quoted in Steve's post from last summer, that refers simply to "immigration" rather than to "illegal immigration" does not refer to "legal immigration" alone. A person who believed that the overall level of immigration was too high, back then, because of illegal immigration, would have answered the same way-- even if he or she favored an actual increase in the level of legal immigration!

    Of those several hundred self-identified followers of the Jewish faith who were part of that 50% figure, there is no way of knowing what they individually considered to be the proper level of legal immigration to the United States, except that it was presumably (although not necessarily, depending upon how the respondent was framing the question, in his or her own mind) less than the then-total of both legal and illegal immigration.

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure "proves" that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration" to the United States, let alone to all historically "White countries," as 'Southfarthing' blithely claimed. I am quite sanguine that he or she would be very hard-pressed to find a single religious Jew who responded to that poll who would make such a draconian statement. (I would; but then, I am not religious, let alone Jewish.)
    , @Southfarthing
    Yes, my comments are only regarding Jews who are playing on the team of the West, not some separate team.

    For my grandparents on my Ashkenazi side, 100% of their great-grandchildren have mixed Christian-Jewish ancestry and 0% of them identify as Jews in any meaningful way. The Ashkenazi side of my family is more conservative than the WASP side of my family... more like John Milius than Steven Spielberg.

    The only data we have to test how many other Jews are oriented toward assimilation is that 71% of non-Orthodox Jews marry non-Jews. That's consistent with the Jews I know, and with famous Jews, who generally marry non-Jews.

    The numbers are that Jewish-Americans are clearly
    more against immigration than for it. Good. Let the people of Richard Feynman and Harrison Ford, and everybody who likes them be on our side. I can't link my influential friends to these sites as long as we demonize Jews.
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  182. Jenova says:
    @Lagertha
    yes, this is true. It is well known that the Nordic countries have the greatest safety nets/social programs. Yet, these are the areas that have an increasing undertow of resentment of foreigners since citizens pay a flat tax (much higher than Americans) according to their income and assets. And, unemployment rocks back and forth between 8-10% (not in oil-rich Norway).

    Every summer I detect/read about more and more disgust of "freeloaders" with their "apartheid religion" taking every advantage and crying "racism!" if they are not given a free apartment with more than 4 bedrooms (unheard of in D/S/N/F/I) for their large broods.

    There has been more and more violence committed by Muslim youth against Finnish youth, for instance...assaults on girls, AND, beating up boys, too. Most of the refugees for the last 20 years are Somalis...and the parents basically, refuse to let their youth mingle with ethnic Finns. Some of the other Muslim youth from other countries do interact, and, are like on soccer teams together, and have little to no friction with other youth. Somalis have been there for a generation already, but still, it is very apparent that they stick together. These are also the countries where cops don't pack guns when these violent fights between youths errupt.

    It's weird, but even little populated Iceland has been forced to take refugees. I was hoping the long winters and dreariness, which is the north, would repel a continued flow of refugees and Roma people to the Nordic countries.

    It's too bad Vladimir doesn't feel like embracing all these refugees/economic opportunists since Russia has been losing population for sometime now! And, the beaches of Socchi or Crimea are delightful.

    - a total side issue: Has anyone else noticed that the uber-wealthy have all bought second or third homes in HAWAII? I mean, Ellison bought an entire island! It reminds me of "The Colony," at the end of the movie, "Children of Men," or "I am Legend."

    This is why concern expressed here about Italy being overwhelmed is misguided. Although a wealthy country its less so than other European countries, and its welfare state is much less generous, especially since the late economic downturn. There are also cultural factors in play. I remember reading somewhere that in the southern parts of the country migrants were in danger of being literally enslaved and used as forced labor by the local organized crime networks. These folks aren’t staying around.

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  183. Keith Vaz [AKA "Datqunn Sawyer"] says:

    By rescueing these low IQ blacks we are creating a perverse incentive for them to continue the infiltration. It shouldn’t be the Italian Coastguard rescueing them, it should be the Italian Navy SINKING them. It may seem cruel at first, but I guarantee that the message would soon reach Africa, thus solving the problem of anti-civilizational imbeciles corrupting pro-civilizational White countries. It’s the only language they understand.

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  184. Big Bill says:

    The frightening thing to me was the recent announcement that Swedish merchant vessels will be traveling to the Mediterranean to pick up refugees. Technically, the law that applies on these vessels (on the open ocean, at least) is the home country law.

    If these Swedish vessels (i.e. flagged in Sweden) do so, I suspect that Swedish and international SJWs will deem their rescue at sea as having “arrived” in Sweden, so the Swedish SJWs can carry them straight back to Sweden to live.

    If I am correct, this suggests an entirely new approach for the nation-destroyers: just register a boat in Sweden (10m, 100m, who cares?), pick up a bunch of Africans in the Med, and then sail back to Sweden.

    In the bad old days (ca. 1970) if a stowaway was found aboard a US merchant ship and arrived back in the USA, he was not permitted to disembark. The shipping company was responsible for his care and feeding AND for getting him back to wherever he snuck on board.

    The first cracks appeared about 30 years ago when airplane travelers learned they could board an airplane, destroy their identity documents in flight, and then present themselves to US Customs on arrival as a “refugee” from some benighted country.

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  185. @Erik Sieven
    @ syon:
    this demographic event will not only bring down western civilization, but civilization at all. As Peter Frost has written some weeks ago, the Subsaharan African expansion has already reached China and to a lesser extent India. It will reach each and every even mediocre developed region in the world.
    Also I do not think that birth control which is restricted to women would really help. This would be only more motivation for Subsaharan African men to have kids with Asians, Europeans.

    this demographic event will not only bring down western civilization, but civilization at all. As Peter Frost has written some weeks ago, the Subsaharan African expansion has already reached China and to a lesser extent India. It will reach each and every even mediocre developed region in the world.

    Don’t think so.

    There’s a small African presence in the Guangzhou, but it’s nothing like–orders of magnitude from–what’s happening in the West.

    The Chinese have a long tradition of general hostility to foreigners. Having a few around the trading hubs, but banning them from the interior. And the Chinese are not PC. If Africans starter to venture into other areas bringing their traditional African behavior it would provoke a severe backlash from the population. (And because the Chicoms know this, it’s not something they will let happen.)

    Yes, China (and the rest of developed East Asia) has the same problems as the West with the behavior of women in the age of prosperity, birth-control and social media. They’ll have to crack that nut, with some combination of traditionalism, nationalism and policy measures.

    But China and Japan and India for that matter, do not have this minoritarianism ideology–or at least are not steeped in it like the West. And they certainly do not have the blacks-are-sacred ideology. Typical\average opinions about blacks in those countries would not be printable in any Western newspaper.

    Much more likely than blacks swallowing Asian countries, is that blacks and browns will rise in the West until there’s a backlash, to increase, but enough to destroy the West as effective competition. As the West diminishes, it’s more likely–to me–that China will act more decisively in its own interest without regard to utopian Western notions.

    Most likely this will be neo-colonial relationships in Africa–which they are already doing. But i could even see flat out colonialism or even Chinese invading and displacing Africans from nice areas in Africa (ex. South Africa) that the Chinese determine are “improperly governed” or “underutilized”.

    The idea that the incompetent blacks are going to steamroll even the semi-competent Asian nations, much less the highly competent Chinese\Koreans\Japanese. Not buying it one bit.

    The African’s have no power. Their “threat” exists only because of the weird pathologically self-destructive minoritarian ideologies of WEIRD the societies (i.e. the West).

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  186. The progressive-liberal-libertine-globalist-feminist coalition that makes up our permanent government just keeps on keeping on. The New York Times knows what Europe needs to do about Muslim migrants.

    Meanwhile in another part of Manhattan:

    World Star Hip Hop: “Social Experiment: Woman Walking In NYC – Hijab Vs No Hijab!”

    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh1S9d73NO26z0LIgp

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  187. Big bill says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    … Unless Europe acts to reform its policy on migration, 2015 could be the deadliest year yet for the thousands of people who fled to Libya from conflict-torn regions across the Middle East and Africa, only to find Libya equally dangerous.
     
    I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until - surprise! - they realized it was, well, Libya.

    Like all the Guatemalans who “fled to Mexico” until, surprise!, they found out Mexico didn’t want them.

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  188. Art Deco says: • Website
    @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so.

    Depends on what boundary you’re putting around that concept. Joan of Arc lived and died 600 years ago.

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    • Replies: @Numinous

    Depends on what boundary you’re putting around that concept. Joan of Arc lived and died 600 years ago.
     
    Sure. I was referring to the Westphalian nation, one that consists of fixed (though periodically changeable) boundaries with a centralized state that subjects all of its residents to abide by a certain code. These nations are intimately tied to the notion of property right, a concept that originated in late Middle Ages Europe, and has still not completely caught on throughout the world. Civilizational or cultural "nations" (where people are distinguished by their food and clothing habits and mannerisms, rather than what state they swear loyalty to) have of course existed for a much longer time, but they were never nations in the sense that we would recognize today.
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  189. Big Bill says:
    @Rob McX
    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources. The only chance for a solution would be for them to put a drastic brake on the increase in population and hope that within a couple of generations it might be sustainable.

    Even if Europe were to lift all immigration controls and let them flood in as fast as their boats could carry them, it wouldn't make the slightest difference in the long run. The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren't trying to help Africa. They're trying to destroy Europe.

    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources.

    According to the UN, Africa has a cultivated land usage of something like 27%, as compared to China, which cultivates about 93% of potential farmland.

    Of course Africans will have to eat up all the rest of the “bush meat” to clear the critters out of the way, but who needs lions, tiger, and bears running around loose, anyway?

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  190. @Rob McX
    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources. The only chance for a solution would be for them to put a drastic brake on the increase in population and hope that within a couple of generations it might be sustainable.

    Even if Europe were to lift all immigration controls and let them flood in as fast as their boats could carry them, it wouldn't make the slightest difference in the long run. The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren't trying to help Africa. They're trying to destroy Europe.

    The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe.

    Very pithy and well said Mr.McX. That’s the sort of clear, succinct blurb that we all ought to use to educate friends and neighbors and propagandize in comment threads.

    One thing i’ve noted, is that in the last ten years or so our enemies are just much more … “out”, more forthright. That NYT editorial is just very direct and out–Europeans don’t own their nations, have *no* right to determine who lives there. The NYT editorial board is the face of nation and civilization destroying evil … right there in your face.

    I just hope white folks start to wake up.

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  191. Anon says: • Disclaimer

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  192. Trafficking gangs tip off Italian officials so that rescue services can pick up people-smuggling boats
    Revelation from former British immigration official will raise fears that search and rescue services are ‘helping’ traffickers

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11540547/Trafficking-gangs-tip-off-Italian-officials-so-that-rescue-services-can-pick-up-people-smuggling-boats.html

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  193. Matra says:

    Lagertha: …with most police not carrying guns in Europe…

    That’s an American myth.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    Well, in my Nordic country, this is the case. It is not a myth.
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  194. Big Bill says:
    @The Albino Sasquatch
    Unfortunately Stealth "They would also stop coming if Europe dealt with them in the same manner the Australians do." As an Australian, I can tell you, it hasn't stopped them. Once here, in detention camps, they proceed to cause mischief and mayhem, then you get a legion of SJW, along with several other insitutions, decrying the 'injustice' of it all and of course a good measure of white guilt into the bargain, predictably, the people leading the charge are nearly all whiteys. We all know what should and can be done to stop it, but nothing will ever be done about it. Ever. Western civilisation is finished.

    Genetic engineering. A program to develop a selective DNA vector technology that will interfere with reproduction. One oligarch could fund it with $20M+. Have a shell entity fund researchers to do the work. The development of the vectors would be ostensibly conducted for neutering feral cats and dogs (or some other acceptable program that everyone agrees is good). Something water-borne or food-borne. Distribution would be a bit more difficult, but not insoluble.

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  195. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    The population of the African continent in 2013 was 1,111,000,000, so one million migrants would be less than one out of a thousand. In other words, there are lots more where those came from. By the way, the UN forecasts that the population of Africa by the end of the century will be nearly four billion.
     
    Well, I've been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.

    Western civilization took itself down in 1918, and then again, just to make sure, in 1945.
    The sad, pathetic, and mostly self-hating relics which remain will deserve utter extinction if they allow this nightmare of a denouement to play itself out.

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  196. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:
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  197. Wilkey says:

    I’ll restate the points I made earlier:

    The people on these boats are not European citizens.

    They are not on European-flagged vessels.

    They did not depart from European soil.

    They are quite often from countries many, many steps removed from Europe.

    Their ships often flounder in waters far closer to Africa than to Europe.

    And yet somehow this is Europe’s problem.

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  198. Read More
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  199. @notsaying
    Some of these people's countries wouldn't be such a mess if Europe didn't allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    We do the same thing here in the US.

    The First World countries have become first class enablers of the rich scum of the Earth.

    In an indirect way we are creating our some of our immigration problems: We get the victimizers buying new $100 million apartments in New York, then their country's poor want to come here too. In London, Paris, etc. that's also going on.

    I bet thousands of homes in California and Texas are owned by people who got into the people trafficking business just in the last five or ten years alone. Europe's probably the same.

    Some of these people’s countries wouldn’t be such a mess if Europe didn’t allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    There’s always another “white man did it” excuse, but this has nothing to do with it.

    The problem is that there are widely varying capabilities among various racial\ethnic groups around the world, which are the *long* products of geography, climate, the nature of agricultural production and availability of surpluses, the culture created by that production and then selection pressure–principally for IQ, conscientiousness and cooperation–within that culture.

    Europe could have never even colonized these nations and there would be an issue. The only significant input of the white man to this problem is that we made available white medicine and technology to these nations which has resulted in an incredible African population boom. If we could replay history–or at least the last hundred years of it–and simply ignore\quarantine Africa, leave it alone without western technology, then it’s population would still be around 100m and these folks would have no way of leaving to migrate to the west.

    Now the African situation is basically hopeless. A rational policy would be a defacto international civilized nation recolonization, with a mission to sterilize the dumbest Africans and reduce population growth there to zero, then negative. Baring that–which ain’t going happen–white civilizational survival entails simply barricading the joint, keeping African backwardness from wrecking the rest of the world.

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  200. @Peter Akuleyev
    Yeah, the papist plot to promote polygyny in black Africans and the demographic situation in northern Italy and Spain (which have the lowest birth rates in the world) really are cases in point

    The demographic situation in Italy and Spain reflects the fact that the Catholic Church has lost all influence and prestige there, just as it is rapidly losing influence and prestige in Poland and Quebec (which also have disastrously low birth rates). Apparently the Church's plan is to make up for these losses by discouraging any attempts to stop Black Africans from breeding. Great for the Church, not so great for humanity.

    But those black Africans are Muslim. They will only displace the native European Catholics, thus exacerbating the low Spanish / Italian birth rates.

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  201. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    David Frum offers a reminder of Australia’s successful approach to discouraging illegal migrants: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/590118408513048577

    Brad DeLong responds: https://twitter.com/delong/status/590119660214833153

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks, I'll post.
    , @Muhry
    "J. Bradford DeLong ‏@delong 9h9 hours ago

    .@davidfrum aren’t gutsy people willing to take initiative and run risks for a better life just the immigrants any society needs?"

    I think Africa could use several boatloads of those people to straighten out Africa's mess.
    , @matt
    When Frum tweets, how do you think he avoids getting the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis all over the keyboard? Does he wear gloves?
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  202. You realize that in American English, that title is pronounced “Europe’s doody on migrants”.

    That may be the answer!

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    You realize that in American English, that title is pronounced “Europe’s doody on migrants”.
     
    Not in my American English; I pronounce my "T's correctly
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  203. Well they would surely help Europe increase their dwindling birth rate. Of course it would result in population replacement. Africa for Africans, Asia for Asians, but Europe for Africans and Asians?

    Having seen where Muslim migrants threw Christian migrants overboard to drown gives one a view of what kind of people are trying to break into Europe.

    Send them home, and remind them that Black Rule Is Cool.

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  204. Andrew says:
    @Rob McX
    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources. The only chance for a solution would be for them to put a drastic brake on the increase in population and hope that within a couple of generations it might be sustainable.

    Even if Europe were to lift all immigration controls and let them flood in as fast as their boats could carry them, it wouldn't make the slightest difference in the long run. The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren't trying to help Africa. They're trying to destroy Europe.

    Rob McX:

    The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa.

    Why should Europe have to? Africa is something like 4 times the geographic size of Europe, has more arable land and natural resources.

    If anything, it was quite legitimate to use places like Algeria, South Africa, Rhodesia, and Namibia to remove the population pressure in Europe.

    Of course, its preposterous to think Africa will ever reach 4 billion inhabitants without exploding.

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  205. Marty [AKA "wick"] says:
    @Lagertha
    yes, this is true. It is well known that the Nordic countries have the greatest safety nets/social programs. Yet, these are the areas that have an increasing undertow of resentment of foreigners since citizens pay a flat tax (much higher than Americans) according to their income and assets. And, unemployment rocks back and forth between 8-10% (not in oil-rich Norway).

    Every summer I detect/read about more and more disgust of "freeloaders" with their "apartheid religion" taking every advantage and crying "racism!" if they are not given a free apartment with more than 4 bedrooms (unheard of in D/S/N/F/I) for their large broods.

    There has been more and more violence committed by Muslim youth against Finnish youth, for instance...assaults on girls, AND, beating up boys, too. Most of the refugees for the last 20 years are Somalis...and the parents basically, refuse to let their youth mingle with ethnic Finns. Some of the other Muslim youth from other countries do interact, and, are like on soccer teams together, and have little to no friction with other youth. Somalis have been there for a generation already, but still, it is very apparent that they stick together. These are also the countries where cops don't pack guns when these violent fights between youths errupt.

    It's weird, but even little populated Iceland has been forced to take refugees. I was hoping the long winters and dreariness, which is the north, would repel a continued flow of refugees and Roma people to the Nordic countries.

    It's too bad Vladimir doesn't feel like embracing all these refugees/economic opportunists since Russia has been losing population for sometime now! And, the beaches of Socchi or Crimea are delightful.

    - a total side issue: Has anyone else noticed that the uber-wealthy have all bought second or third homes in HAWAII? I mean, Ellison bought an entire island! It reminds me of "The Colony," at the end of the movie, "Children of Men," or "I am Legend."

    You’re a millenial, right? You’re the first person I’ve ever seen who carries over the “like” filler of her speech into her writing.

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    Ha, Haa! hardly a Millenial. And, what does "the first person I've ever seen," mean since I don't know who you are? It took me decades to cut the F word from my everyday speech and, obviously, I still use "like" too much. I coached soccer for decades, so I was "like" around too many Millenials and Gen Z kids...but I only used the F word around my friends...not as much as I did in the 80's.
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  206. George says:

    EU to launch military operations against migrant-smugglers in Libya

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/20/eu-launch-military-operations-libya-migrant-smugglers-mediterranean

    Does the EU have a miltary?

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  207. @Lagertha
    probably, because I am tired tonight and have too many boiler-plate decisions and planning to deal with as well, that I feel this is the most depressing post of yours to date for me. I have long felt a foreboding of doom that the poor people everywhere in the world will just flood into Europe, USA, Australia, all the "open borders" countries. The trickling-in has been going on for 2 decades.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization....the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries...and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    This is just so depressing...with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization….the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries…and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.

    “not enough time” isn’t the issue. The raw genetic capability of these folks is inferior in basic capabilities–IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, trust–for sustaining civilization.

    This is just so depressing…with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.

    The answer is to stand up to the minoritarian narrative and assert that you–the native population–have ownership of your nation. That it exists for your race and culture and no one else.

    But yeah … i’m with you. It is depressing. But i’m not just depressed, i’m also pissed.

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    well, as I hinted at earlier, there are nationalistic parties growing in membership in all the Nordic countries (Iceland, no need). And, there have always been "skin heads." The problem is (my view on my culture) most people in the Nordic countries are deeply righteous...there is transparency everywhere and cooperation is valued and expected. Honesty and "following the rules," like paying taxes is normal. These country's are known to be in the top 'Least Corrupt' countries in the world...and the happiest...even if there is a weird alcohol culture I can't explain and any mental health issues are strictly hidden.

    Most "everyday" Nordic types are loathe to tout their cultural/ethnic characteristics. There is a modesty that I can never explain to Americans (even with having saunas, and all...or the annual "Carrying the Ole' Lady" race). The people in these regions have been racially isolated more or less until the 1960's when Turkish and Greek "guestworkers" first arrived (more in Sweden). Of course, in the 70's, as a teen, I noticed Chinese and other more what Scandinavians would call, exotic, people who opened restaurants and businesses revolving around their ethnicity. I remember the Bolivian flute players playing music (80's) in one of the city plazas and I wondered how the heck did they get here?

    The nationalist parties are gaining popularity but you can imagine how quickly the citizens that identify more with socialists, liberals and greens are quick to call them Nazis ('Hitler' and 'Nazi' still come up so quickly today, everywhere) and racists. Meanwhile, those same people are irked by the news of teens being attacked by gangs of Muslim teens; women producing baby after baby; girls dying of septicemia on an ER gurney following botched cutting; and the fact that the families self-isolate. The unwillingness to respect the host country's culture yet demanding social services is breeding a back-lash in the Nordic countries. The cost of living is the same as NYC or SF in many ways.

    And, then there is the problem of Breivik and ultra-nationalists who turn into killers, some who may be nuts. Even Palme's murder (PM of Sweden) in the 80's was thought to be a right-wing type who disliked the socialist policies that were becoming more entrenched in Swedish life. Swedes are even more bizarrely uncomfortable to revere their culture and country...maybe because they made SO much money during the WW's, like no wars for 250 years almost! - Norway, Denmark and Finland were in a dark place in WW2.

    There have been immigrants from all parts of the world (most had more education) that have integrated well into S, N,F, and D, have been good citizens and followed "the rules." The Somalis have not, and this current influx, with no skills, marginal education, packed in like cattle into those crappy boats, mostly male, is super scary to most Europeans. I remember the wild and crazy Oriana Fallaci writing about fearing these young males with no prospects, no moral compass, no knowledge of European cultures coming to Italy almost 15-20 years ago.

    Also, the settlements of Somalis in Maine, Minnesota, and other utterly confusing cold-weather states seem to also have problems for the locals. I mean, Maine, which I am very familiar with, is no place for refugees...it is a very lonely place where locals don't like outsiders. Only the wealthy coastal areas feel pleasant...but that's not where they stick the refugees.

    So, it is not that I am depressed...it is just depressing since it seems futile and a conundrum of epic proportions. There are growing efforts to discuss what to do about immigrants, but show me a western country, a Christian country, a non-despotic country that has successfully blocked-out the poor. The Charlie Hebdo incident was perhaps the start of getting Europeans to wake up...but these new boat people seem so apocalyptic. And, whether this is ISIS's grand scheme remains to be seen.

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  208. @MLK

    "Europe's Duty on Migrants"
     
    This usage is tellingly incorrect. There is a "duty on" something when writing of an import duty. It's rather obvious why The New York Times chose not to accurately title this editorial "Europe's Duty to Migrants," since there is none.

    I think the correct title is “White Man’s Burden”.

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  209. Stop sending food & medical aid so there will be less 3rd world moslems that want to cut off my head coming to leech off the dole/welfare.

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  210. Veracitor says:

       max|       xx        
     L    |      x  x       
     e B  |     x    x      
     a o  |    x      x     
     k a  |   x        x    
     y t  |  x          x   
       s  |_x_________x__
          0 Immigration 100%
             Enforcement    

    The “foundering illegal-alien boat” rate obeys an inverse Laffer curve with respect to immigration enforcement.

    No enforcement = no foundering boats (the illegal aliens just buy passage cheaply on legitimate ferries).

    Proper enforcement = no foundering boats (illegal aliens stay home because traveling to a flogging and deportation in chains isn’t worth the trouble).

    Anarcho-tyrannical incompetent enforcement = maximum foundering boats (because no legitimate ferry operator wants to get his boat confiscated and himself sent to prison for carrying illegal aliens, but greedy smugglers who pack hundreds into leaky cockleshells know that they can keep all the money they extort from illegal aliens who rationally gamble that they will get to the paradise of welfare payments for idle illiterates which is Europe).

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  211. Rob McX says:
    @Lurker
    And Britain is an island but we are taking over 5700 per week and thats net! Gross immigration is even higher. Of course many incomers are white Europeans and are not too problematic and yes, some emigration is a troubling loss of enrichment too but the overall picture is grim.

    The whole concept of “net immigration” is a fraud. It means that if Britain takes in 100 000 Africans and 100 000 British people emigrate during the same period, that’s zero net immigration!

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    • Replies: @annie
    or if 100k Brits die...
    , @Lurker
    Yes Rob.

    My point was if that's how bad net immigration is in small, crowded Britain, just imagine how bad the real situation is.
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  212. @JohnnyWalker123
    I'll explain what's happening.

    If Europe doesn't take these refugees, many will die or go back home or settle in North Africa. Some will choose another option - they will attempt to cross into Israel. Then suddenly Israel will be confronted with a crisis. Either the Israelis can choose to take in the refugees or face international condemnation for being heartless to these suffering African migrants.

    Israel is currently trying to generate support for aggressive action against Iran. The last thing Israel needs is a humanitarian crisis that makes it look barbaric. That doesn't advance the narrative of Israel being the beacon of hope and freedom in the Middle East.

    So the New York Times wants the European Union to take these refugees, so the refugees don't wander into Israeli territory. Being a mostly Jewish-owned newspaper, the NYT likely is coordinating with the Netanyahu government and AIPAC to get out the message that Europe needs to take in the refugees.

    If you assume that the New York Times is an Israeli-expatriate publication, then this editorial makes sense. I'm not saying that liberal ideology isn't a contributing factor, but my guess is that this is primarily about helping Israel to avert a diplomatic crisis.

    Now Now all media isn’t owned by Jews. Carlos Slims owns some of it. It is odd they all agree that Israel should have sealed borders but ever other white nation should double down on dumbing down.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This is naïve. Sony USA may be owned by the Japanese but they don't run it, and would be foolish to try.
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  213. Gato de la Biblioteca [AKA "Icepick"] says:
    @Anonymous
    I thought the NWO destroyed Libya because Kkaaddaaffii was threatening a gold dinar and the globo bankers needed to put a central bank in there asap.

    Silly me playing two dimensional chess. With the NWO it's always three dimensional chess. They got their central bank plus a new base to ISIS style attacks plus a spewing volcano of humanitarian/immigration crisis.

    In New Hampshire Rand Paul just asked why the hell did we wreck Libya. Now we know.

    In New Hampshire Rand Paul just asked why the hell did we wreck Libya. Now we know.

    Rand still an open borders libertarian? If so, this would be a plus for him.

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  214. @Dave Pinsen
    David Frum offers a reminder of Australia's successful approach to discouraging illegal migrants: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/590118408513048577

    Brad DeLong responds: https://twitter.com/delong/status/590119660214833153

    Thanks, I’ll post.

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  215. D. K. says:
    @AnotherDad
    > Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    First off that's not what the poll says. You can barely get to 50% on "immigration too high".

    But yes, a lot of Jews quite reasonable folks, and provide a reasonable answer on immigration when posed as a normal policy issue. (All anyone has to do is open one's eyes to see high immigration is making the US more unpleasant.)

    But ...
    --> you'll note that the Jewish figures are 20+ points more "left" (pro-immigration, open-borders) compared to other whites

    --> every formal Jewish organization, the elites, leaders, ethnic spokespeople are rabidly pro-immigration

    The key point is not immigration as a policy-wonk issue like seat-belt laws or charter schools, it's ideology--Jewish minoritarianism.

    Basically, most Jews believe--at some deep level--that Jews have the right to live in any nation. That no nation should be allowed to keep Jews out. And that in any country, Jews must be accepted by the majority. And that any attempts to exclude them are racist!, anti-semitic--fundamentally immoral and illegitimate. In other words, they don't believe in the legitimacy of organic nations.

    This is a quite rational ideology for a middle man minority to hold. However, it's an extremely nasty, hostile ideology to the interests of 99%** of the world that wants to live in their own nations, amongst their own people, following their own traditions and culture, in charge of their own destiny. (** I'll grant it's not 99% if you consider the large chunk--20% or so--of 3rd world peoples who'd like to emmigrate to a white nation in order to get a better life. But those people mostly would rather stay in their own nations with their own people and culture ... except for the superior economic prospects in white nations.)

    That's the issue: Whether people actually have the *right* to their own nations.


    And you aren't going to find Hollywood any majoritarian, pro-national narratives. You've get the 221st movie about the Holocaust, or slavery\Jim Crow\civil rights\evil-southern-redneck. But you're not going to find a movie sympathetic say to California white people's annoyance and despair seeing their neighborhood become a barrio, their kids schools become foreign, America hostile enclaves. Or showcase the drama of a white family dealing with a black home-invasion, rape. Or even a white co-ed gang raped by black football players at Big State U. You won't find a sympathetic portrayal of Italians struggling as their community fills with black refugees and becomes an unsafe, African, crime ridden slum. Or much less, Italians taking the law into their own hands to try and drive out the Africans. Or heroically taking to civilian patrolling of their coasts to drive off African invaders.

    Those narratives are far more realistic and legitimate than the minorities-are-sacred, diversity-is-beautiful pablum Hollywood spews out. But majorities defending their nation, race, culture is a non-starter.

    Again, that's the real issue here--minoritarianism. Do people actually have a right to their own nations?

    Even the lone question in that 2009 poll, as quoted in Steve’s post from last summer, that refers simply to “immigration” rather than to “illegal immigration” does not refer to “legal immigration” alone. A person who believed that the overall level of immigration was too high, back then, because of illegal immigration, would have answered the same way– even if he or she favored an actual increase in the level of legal immigration!

    Of those several hundred self-identified followers of the Jewish faith who were part of that 50% figure, there is no way of knowing what they individually considered to be the proper level of legal immigration to the United States, except that it was presumably (although not necessarily, depending upon how the respondent was framing the question, in his or her own mind) less than the then-total of both legal and illegal immigration.

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure “proves” that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration” to the United States, let alone to all historically “White countries,” as ‘Southfarthing’ blithely claimed. I am quite sanguine that he or she would be very hard-pressed to find a single religious Jew who responded to that poll who would make such a draconian statement. (I would; but then, I am not religious, let alone Jewish.)

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure “proves” that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration” to the United States, let alone to all historically “White countries,” as ‘Southfarthing’ blithely claimed.
     
    The results of polls that ask whether immigration is "too high" or "too low" can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all. But in the case of Jews I don't think this interpretation applies. People who want immigration halted (not merely 'reduced') routinely show up on comments threads on immigration-related topics and they are hopping mad. I don't think I've come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue, and the best explanation is that Jews deep down want immigration to continue indefinitely. Look at the way commenter "SFG" who posts here pussyfoots around the issue - and he's only half Jewish.
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  216. Gato de la Biblioteca [AKA "Icepick"] says:
    @M_Young
    The Head Collaborator -- "no limits"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMBtwvxyQCE

    Why the fuck is an American lawyer in charge of the European Council on Refugees and Exiles?

    LinkedIn profile

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  217. jimB says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    … Unless Europe acts to reform its policy on migration, 2015 could be the deadliest year yet for the thousands of people who fled to Libya from conflict-torn regions across the Middle East and Africa, only to find Libya equally dangerous.
     
    I like the implication there that migrants were initially planning to settle in Libya until - surprise! - they realized it was, well, Libya.

    I seem to recall reading on this blog that Gaddafi/Kaddaffi/Qdafei was trying to become emperor of African and was importing large numbers of black Africans as soldiers and laborers, which infuriated the “white” north African inhabitants of the country. Notice the guys doing the head harvesting are a lighter shade than the heads being harvested. It strikes me that the Africans fleeing Libya now must be leftover from the Mo-man’s attempt to elect a new Libyan people. The EU could, out of the goodness of their hearts, offer these economic drifters transport back to their home countries.

    I like the term drifter. It pops up frequently in old Kung Fu reruns. It is an apt description for illegal or otherwise unwanted aliens.

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  218. Lagertha says:
    @Matra
    Lagertha: ...with most police not carrying guns in Europe...

    That's an American myth.

    Well, in my Nordic country, this is the case. It is not a myth.

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  219. ren says:
    @iSteveFan

    Well, I’ve been saying for a while now that mass immigration from Latin America is just the prelude. Black Africa will be the end wave, the tsunami that will take down Western Civilization.
     
    You are probably correct. And all the arguments that the other side has been pounding over and over again to facilitate the current Mexican immivasion will just be recycled to grease the skids of this future African tidal wave. They have so thoroughly pushed the 'propositional-nation notion', 'the nativists were against the Irish rant', 'the Italians weren't considered white ', and so on, no one will be able to argue against it, lest they be socially ostracized.

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.

    I don’t wonder. Mexicans are not smart enough to think that they see subtle nuances behind the scenes that are opposite of what they see right in front of them. Mexicans will be more than happy to kill Africans.

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    • Replies: @jimB
    Pretty much all immigrants are of the same opinion: what's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine.
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  220. annie says:
    @Rob McX
    The whole concept of "net immigration" is a fraud. It means that if Britain takes in 100 000 Africans and 100 000 British people emigrate during the same period, that's zero net immigration!

    or if 100k Brits die…

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  221. @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    “Just because Bryan Caplan doesn’t care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn’t mean he wants to get rid of the family as well”

    I don’t think that’s the way it works. Do you think the original gay rights pioneers who only wanted ‘tolerance’ could have forseen the way their campaign would go in decades to come? Liberal progression has a momentum of it’s own. In a way it’s the change that’s the point as people vie to remain ‘ahead of the curve’

    Most opinions are relative and are simply a kind of cultural compromise. So if people think skirts should be a certain length, the most daring will wear them slightly shorter, and when this is accepted then the most daring will wear them that little bit shorter still. There is no ‘sensible’ or median point to cultural standards like this. And seeing as the logic for the eradication of the family is exactly the same as for the eradication of ethnicity and race then it is only a matter of time before the most daring and pioneering will push towards this view as well. You could say that the family itself is a ‘racial category’. You could also say that the word ‘family’ means such different things to different people that it exists in no meaningful sense. You could say that the family is not natural and is a product of the needs of civilisation and capitalism. You could say it is patriarchal. You could day it promotes inequality based on biological relatedness. You could say it is not fair. And when Europe becomes non-white you could also argue that the existence of white families with white children are the cause for the continued disparities and should be mixed.

    You think you could argue against those points in the world of tomorrow?

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  222. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Erik Sieven
    @ syon:
    this demographic event will not only bring down western civilization, but civilization at all. As Peter Frost has written some weeks ago, the Subsaharan African expansion has already reached China and to a lesser extent India. It will reach each and every even mediocre developed region in the world.
    Also I do not think that birth control which is restricted to women would really help. This would be only more motivation for Subsaharan African men to have kids with Asians, Europeans.

    Need to keep the very small scale and closely managed nature of the African presence in China in perspective.

    The bulk of Africans are carefully kept in 2-3 cities which the Chinese government has designated as the trade hubs for informal trade in plastic junk with the Middle East and Africa (Guangzhou and Yiwu in Zhejiang are the main ones). There are also a few students at universities around the country who are being trained in technical subjects before being sent home to work (they don’t get working visas in China), as well as small community in Beijing (a number of whom work as drug dealers and periodically get arrested in police sweeps that specifically target them.)

    While Westerners in China who aren’t corporate expats sometimes open bars, restaurants, English schools, or little consultancies in 2nd tier cities, Africans don’t do this. While Chinese are often interested in patronizing these businesses owned by Western or east Asian expats, there is no interest in patronizing African run businesses – a Korean makeup salon, Japanese graphic design shop or British managed pub will get business even in cities with few foreigners, but there isn’t any demand for African restaurants or anything else. (Visa enforcement is handled at the city level, which allows for these exceptions in the trading hubs I mentioned)

    The police are much stricter on Africans than on white or Asian expats, and it is much harder for them to get semi-legal visas to do under the table businesses, with the exception of small scale import-export in a couple of cities.

    The Chinese government and public has no interest in any African presence beyond the minimum necessary to facilitate the export of some plastic flip flops and other junk and some education exchange as part of their diplomacy, and the enforcement of laws is consistently applied from the national to the local level to keep it that way.

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  223. Muhry says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    David Frum offers a reminder of Australia's successful approach to discouraging illegal migrants: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/590118408513048577

    Brad DeLong responds: https://twitter.com/delong/status/590119660214833153

    “J. Bradford DeLong ‏@delong 9h9 hours ago

    .@davidfrum aren’t gutsy people willing to take initiative and run risks for a better life just the immigrants any society needs?”

    I think Africa could use several boatloads of those people to straighten out Africa’s mess.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    I think Africa could use several boatloads of those people to straighten out Africa’s mess.
     
    Good idea. African countries could just swap populations with one another. All that immigrant innovation energy will solve their problems in no time.

    Good God, historians a hundred years from now are going to stare in complete disbelief as they read the comments of wilfully insane early 21st century intellectuals.
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  224. jimB says:
    @Kylie
    I see the NYT is being disingenuous as always.

    The editorial's title is "Europe's Duty on Migrants" when given the content, it should be "Europe's Duty to Migrants".

    Don't even get me started on "migrants".

    Last time I checked, the stand alone continent of Africa was run entirely by Africans. What duty could the EU possibly have to the African refugees decades after the end of colonialism? The Europeans who tried to stay in Africa and maintain the food supply were treated in the most savage and despicable ways. European businessmen had their wealth appropriated. Let the Chinese, who are currently the big global beneficiaries of Africa’s raw materials, solve this immigrant problem. They have a big navy now. Let them scoop up refugees and settle them in China’s big cities. It will take at least a century for the refugees to out populate the natives so no need for concern.

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  225. jimB says:
    @ren

    I wonder if Mexican immigrants and their descendants are going to develop their own version of the Ellis Island schmaltz, ( the Rio Grande schmaltz), and demand that we let in every future immigrant from Africa so they can go to sleep at night without feeling like hypocrites.

     

    I don't wonder. Mexicans are not smart enough to think that they see subtle nuances behind the scenes that are opposite of what they see right in front of them. Mexicans will be more than happy to kill Africans.

    Pretty much all immigrants are of the same opinion: what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is mine.

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    • Replies: @Wilkey
    What's the old saying? "What's mine is mine. What's yours is negotiable."
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  226. @Numinous

    Once you do that, the entire basis for every tribe or nation or pretty much everything that has motivated humankind throughout history is completely irrelevant. Apply the same logic to nuclear families and it’s wrong for a parent to privilege biological children over foreign children and the premise of families is also voided. The Caplan/Cochrane types really don’t have a good response to this, they just stick to their “elevator pitch”.
     
    The "logic" underlying your position isn't as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a "nation" really only arose within the past 400 years or so. And different people can choose what level they wish to stretch their logic to. Just because Bryan Caplan doesn't care to preserve racial categories just the way they are today doesn't mean he wants to get rid of the family as well.

    Also remember that pretty much every "nation" that exists today came about by forcibly assimilating or expelling many tribes or extended kin groups. And racial and ethnic groups have evolved over the millennia not through careful social engineering but purely because of geographical isolation.

    Lastly, there is some sound "logic" for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge.

    The “logic” underlying your position isn’t as eternal as you seem to think. The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so.

    That doesn’t affect his logic at all. He alluded to a principle that applies to nations and groups smaller and larger than nations.

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  227. The official Australian Customs Service message to illegal migrants:
    No Way. You will not make Australia home – English

    I found that in a story at the French state broadcaster with the title: “La politique d’immigration musclée de l’Australie : un modèle pour l’UE?” or “The muscular immigration policy of Australia: a model for the EU?”

    http://geopolis.francetvinfo.fr/la-politique-dimmigration-musclee-de-laustralie-un-modele-pour-lue-59093

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  228. @Rob McX
    I just took a look at the location of the sinking - nowhere close to European waters. Africa's problem, not ours. And another thing: a survivor quoted in this article is from Bangladesh! People will travel a long way these days to find a place to flee from.

    I just took a look at the location of the sinking – nowhere close to European waters. Africa’s problem, not ours.

    Why would the location matter?

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    It shouldn't matter anyway. But the fact that it happened outside European jurisdiction means there is even less excuse for the pretence that it's somehow Europe's problem.
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  229. @D. K.
    Even the lone question in that 2009 poll, as quoted in Steve's post from last summer, that refers simply to "immigration" rather than to "illegal immigration" does not refer to "legal immigration" alone. A person who believed that the overall level of immigration was too high, back then, because of illegal immigration, would have answered the same way-- even if he or she favored an actual increase in the level of legal immigration!

    Of those several hundred self-identified followers of the Jewish faith who were part of that 50% figure, there is no way of knowing what they individually considered to be the proper level of legal immigration to the United States, except that it was presumably (although not necessarily, depending upon how the respondent was framing the question, in his or her own mind) less than the then-total of both legal and illegal immigration.

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure "proves" that "[m]ost Jews oppose immigration" to the United States, let alone to all historically "White countries," as 'Southfarthing' blithely claimed. I am quite sanguine that he or she would be very hard-pressed to find a single religious Jew who responded to that poll who would make such a draconian statement. (I would; but then, I am not religious, let alone Jewish.)

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure “proves” that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration” to the United States, let alone to all historically “White countries,” as ‘Southfarthing’ blithely claimed.

    The results of polls that ask whether immigration is “too high” or “too low” can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all. But in the case of Jews I don’t think this interpretation applies. People who want immigration halted (not merely ‘reduced’) routinely show up on comments threads on immigration-related topics and they are hopping mad. I don’t think I’ve come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue, and the best explanation is that Jews deep down want immigration to continue indefinitely. Look at the way commenter “SFG” who posts here pussyfoots around the issue – and he’s only half Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Southfarthing

    I don’t think I’ve come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue...
     
    Amren gets a lot of support from Jews.

    The 71% intermarriage rate for non-Orthodox Jews means most younger people with Jewish ancestry today are mixed Christian-Jewish, so it's expected that most Jewish commenters on these sites will be half-Jews.

    Most people won't hang out on sites where people you otherwise agree with engineer a narrative against you no matter what you do. "Spend your limited time with people who value you."
    , @D. K.
    "The results of polls that ask whether immigration is 'too high' or 'too low' can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all."

    Nonsense!
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  230. Lagertha says:
    @AnotherDad

    I golfed with a legendary octogenarian golfer who predicted that this was the real threat to civilization….the vast influx of poor people streaming into western countries…and, that there was not enough time and systems set up to absorb people with no skills.
     
    "not enough time" isn't the issue. The raw genetic capability of these folks is inferior in basic capabilities--IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, trust--for sustaining civilization.

    This is just so depressing…with no answers to assuage the tidal wave of doom.
     

    The answer is to stand up to the minoritarian narrative and assert that you--the native population--have ownership of your nation. That it exists for your race and culture and no one else.

    But yeah ... i'm with you. It is depressing. But i'm not just depressed, i'm also pissed.

    well, as I hinted at earlier, there are nationalistic parties growing in membership in all the Nordic countries (Iceland, no need). And, there have always been “skin heads.” The problem is (my view on my culture) most people in the Nordic countries are deeply righteous…there is transparency everywhere and cooperation is valued and expected. Honesty and “following the rules,” like paying taxes is normal. These country’s are known to be in the top ‘Least Corrupt’ countries in the world…and the happiest…even if there is a weird alcohol culture I can’t explain and any mental health issues are strictly hidden.

    Most “everyday” Nordic types are loathe to tout their cultural/ethnic characteristics. There is a modesty that I can never explain to Americans (even with having saunas, and all…or the annual “Carrying the Ole’ Lady” race). The people in these regions have been racially isolated more or less until the 1960′s when Turkish and Greek “guestworkers” first arrived (more in Sweden). Of course, in the 70′s, as a teen, I noticed Chinese and other more what Scandinavians would call, exotic, people who opened restaurants and businesses revolving around their ethnicity. I remember the Bolivian flute players playing music (80′s) in one of the city plazas and I wondered how the heck did they get here?

    The nationalist parties are gaining popularity but you can imagine how quickly the citizens that identify more with socialists, liberals and greens are quick to call them Nazis (‘Hitler’ and ‘Nazi’ still come up so quickly today, everywhere) and racists. Meanwhile, those same people are irked by the news of teens being attacked by gangs of Muslim teens; women producing baby after baby; girls dying of septicemia on an ER gurney following botched cutting; and the fact that the families self-isolate. The unwillingness to respect the host country’s culture yet demanding social services is breeding a back-lash in the Nordic countries. The cost of living is the same as NYC or SF in many ways.

    And, then there is the problem of Breivik and ultra-nationalists who turn into killers, some who may be nuts. Even Palme’s murder (PM of Sweden) in the 80′s was thought to be a right-wing type who disliked the socialist policies that were becoming more entrenched in Swedish life. Swedes are even more bizarrely uncomfortable to revere their culture and country…maybe because they made SO much money during the WW’s, like no wars for 250 years almost! – Norway, Denmark and Finland were in a dark place in WW2.

    There have been immigrants from all parts of the world (most had more education) that have integrated well into S, N,F, and D, have been good citizens and followed “the rules.” The Somalis have not, and this current influx, with no skills, marginal education, packed in like cattle into those crappy boats, mostly male, is super scary to most Europeans. I remember the wild and crazy Oriana Fallaci writing about fearing these young males with no prospects, no moral compass, no knowledge of European cultures coming to Italy almost 15-20 years ago.

    Also, the settlements of Somalis in Maine, Minnesota, and other utterly confusing cold-weather states seem to also have problems for the locals. I mean, Maine, which I am very familiar with, is no place for refugees…it is a very lonely place where locals don’t like outsiders. Only the wealthy coastal areas feel pleasant…but that’s not where they stick the refugees.

    So, it is not that I am depressed…it is just depressing since it seems futile and a conundrum of epic proportions. There are growing efforts to discuss what to do about immigrants, but show me a western country, a Christian country, a non-despotic country that has successfully blocked-out the poor. The Charlie Hebdo incident was perhaps the start of getting Europeans to wake up…but these new boat people seem so apocalyptic. And, whether this is ISIS’s grand scheme remains to be seen.

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  231. @Muhry
    "J. Bradford DeLong ‏@delong 9h9 hours ago

    .@davidfrum aren’t gutsy people willing to take initiative and run risks for a better life just the immigrants any society needs?"

    I think Africa could use several boatloads of those people to straighten out Africa's mess.

    I think Africa could use several boatloads of those people to straighten out Africa’s mess.

    Good idea. African countries could just swap populations with one another. All that immigrant innovation energy will solve their problems in no time.

    Good God, historians a hundred years from now are going to stare in complete disbelief as they read the comments of wilfully insane early 21st century intellectuals.

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  232. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Rob McX
    Africa is just one exploding mass of people with no hope of supporting themselves, nor of being kept under control as the competition gets more deadly for vanishing resources. The only chance for a solution would be for them to put a drastic brake on the increase in population and hope that within a couple of generations it might be sustainable.

    Even if Europe were to lift all immigration controls and let them flood in as fast as their boats could carry them, it wouldn't make the slightest difference in the long run. The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren't trying to help Africa. They're trying to destroy Europe.

    The people calling for Europe to take in more of immigrants aren’t trying to help Africa. They’re trying to destroy Europe.

    Excellent point!

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  233. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone - let alone brains - whatsoever.

    From this display of cowardice and stupidity in the Mediterranean it can now be more or less guaranteed for certain that Europe, including the eastern European EU states, will be predominantly a black and brown continent by the end of this century.
    Absolutely certain.

    What this whole disgusting story tells us more than anything is that the European political class has absolutely no backbone – let alone brains – whatsoever

    I don’t think it is due to a lack of backbone or brains. I think it is due to the fact that they have been paid of by pro-immigration billionaires like George Soros and Sheldon Adelson.

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  234. Wilkey says:
    @jimB
    Pretty much all immigrants are of the same opinion: what's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine.

    What’s the old saying? “What’s mine is mine. What’s yours is negotiable.”

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  235. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen
    The long term solution is the further economic development of Africa, and the news hasn't been all bad in that regard. Much of Africa is a lot better off than it was 10 years ago. As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    In that context, supporting African refugees in Europe makes little sense. Think about how much further the same money could go in Africa. Give it to someone like Paul Kagame in return for taking in migrants.

    As countries get richer, birth rates drop.

    Not so much in Africa. Africans seem to see money as a means of making more Africans.

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  236. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @BigGaySteve
    Now Now all media isn't owned by Jews. Carlos Slims owns some of it. It is odd they all agree that Israel should have sealed borders but ever other white nation should double down on dumbing down.

    This is naïve. Sony USA may be owned by the Japanese but they don’t run it, and would be foolish to try.

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  237. […] Average Joe The Jewish-owned New York Times is calling on Europe to take in hundreds of thousands of black African immigrants, but it is not […]

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  238. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Southfarthing

    The common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.
     
    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries

    Not the rich ones like George Soros and Sheldon Adelson.

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  239. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    So it is basically the fault of the Republicans and the Catholic Church that Africans can’t control their sex drives? Also, why is it the responsibility of non-Africans to provide birth control to Africans?

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    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    So it is basically the fault of the Republicans and the Catholic Church that Africans can’t control their sex drives? Also, why is it the responsibility of non-Africans to provide birth control to Africans?

    It is in our own self interest. The idea that Black Africans can be magically taught to "control their sex drives" is utopian drivel on a par with the idea that Black Africans can all be magicall taught algegbra II. Genetics and culture are destiny. The West opened this can of worms by importing medical science and technology to a continent that wasn't prepared for it, we have a duty to fix the problem.
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  240. syonredux says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar
    You realize that in American English, that title is pronounced "Europe's doody on migrants".

    That may be the answer!

    You realize that in American English, that title is pronounced “Europe’s doody on migrants”.

    Not in my American English; I pronounce my “T’s correctly

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  241. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @notsaying
    Some of these people's countries wouldn't be such a mess if Europe didn't allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    We do the same thing here in the US.

    The First World countries have become first class enablers of the rich scum of the Earth.

    In an indirect way we are creating our some of our immigration problems: We get the victimizers buying new $100 million apartments in New York, then their country's poor want to come here too. In London, Paris, etc. that's also going on.

    I bet thousands of homes in California and Texas are owned by people who got into the people trafficking business just in the last five or ten years alone. Europe's probably the same.

    Some of these people’s countries wouldn’t be such a mess if Europe didn’t allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    How about some specifics instead of the usual blame whitey nonsense that leftists resort to every time blacks show themselves to be inferior.

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    • Replies: @notsaying
    I'm no leftist. I'm an American who is sick of the rich people of Mexico and Central America refusing to do right by their own country and instead shipping their poor here. I don't think we should be expected to pay for their people. And I sure don't want those very same rich crooks coming up here where they and their money will be safe. I think a very similar thing is part of what is happening in Europe. A big part of the current surge in people taking boats to Europe is related to war in the Middle East and Africa but a lot of it is not. I don't think European should be expected to pay for people whose government officials send all their money to private bank accounts. I'm against the global elite jerking the rest of us around. No way am I anti-white.
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  242. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Erik Sieven
    @ Sean
    they don´t need a fake marriage. white european women are standing in lines to marry one african immigrant.

    white european women are standing in lines to marry one african immigrant.

    Is this a clone of Whiskey?

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  243. @silviosilver

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure “proves” that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration” to the United States, let alone to all historically “White countries,” as ‘Southfarthing’ blithely claimed.
     
    The results of polls that ask whether immigration is "too high" or "too low" can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all. But in the case of Jews I don't think this interpretation applies. People who want immigration halted (not merely 'reduced') routinely show up on comments threads on immigration-related topics and they are hopping mad. I don't think I've come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue, and the best explanation is that Jews deep down want immigration to continue indefinitely. Look at the way commenter "SFG" who posts here pussyfoots around the issue - and he's only half Jewish.

    I don’t think I’ve come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue…

    Amren gets a lot of support from Jews.

    The 71% intermarriage rate for non-Orthodox Jews means most younger people with Jewish ancestry today are mixed Christian-Jewish, so it’s expected that most Jewish commenters on these sites will be half-Jews.

    Most people won’t hang out on sites where people you otherwise agree with engineer a narrative against you no matter what you do. “Spend your limited time with people who value you.”

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Most people won’t hang out on sites where people you otherwise agree with engineer a narrative against you no matter what you do.
     
    Heh, if that were true no white would ever visit a mainstream media outlet.

    But look, your claim only holds true for neo-nazi sites. They're the only people who believe in a primordial Jewish wickedness such that Jews would have been damned no matter what they ever did.

    More reasonable critics simply refuse to turn a blind eye to a twentieth century history in which Jewish anti-white activism played a prominent role and whose effects are felt ever more forcefully. This isn't "engineering a narrative"; it's speaking truth to power.

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  244. Rob McX says:
    @ben tillman

    I just took a look at the location of the sinking – nowhere close to European waters. Africa’s problem, not ours.
     
    Why would the location matter?

    It shouldn’t matter anyway. But the fact that it happened outside European jurisdiction means there is even less excuse for the pretence that it’s somehow Europe’s problem.

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  245. @Southfarthing
    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data? Narratives (lists of selected claims) aren't reliable.

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson's vision of a borderless future, so I'm skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they're separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).

    It seems like a much broader problem than just Jews. Instead, most Jews seem to be part of the majority of Whites who are less enthusiastic for demographic replacement than elites.

    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data?

    Your poll didn’t say what you said it did, but counting Jewish heads is non-responsive. What matters is what Jews do as a group, not what each one believes.

    Jewish support for immigration is about the opinion and actions of the organized Jewish community with its astounding array of resources. But, if you want to focus on specific Jews, we can see a pattern in country after country where one Jew appears to throw open the immigration floodgates single-handedly. Alan Shatter in Ireland, Barbara Roche in the UK, and (less directly) David Schwarz in Sweden. There are no counterexamples.

    For God’s sake — look at Stephen Steinlight. He was an important insider in the Jewish community, and, in expressing his dissent from mass immigration, he based his opposition solely on “Is it good for the Jews?” while calling White opposition to immigration based on ethnic interests “vile”.

    It is well-documented that the Jewish community was the proponent of the 1965 immigration act in this country, and the reigning ideologies that underpin the dispossession of White America have Jewish origins. Your apologia for the Jews in this regard is most assuredly not based on the data. and it is completely at odds with biological theory and Jewish history.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Your apologia for the Jews in this regard is most assuredly not based on the data. and it is completely at odds with biological theory and Jewish history.
     
    Which biological theory are you referring to?
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  246. D. K. says:
    @Southfarthing
    The poll was on all immigration, not just illegal immigration. View the question directly here.

    Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure.

    Those numbers are very clear: Jewish-Americans are more against immigration than for it.

    How could somebody possibly interpret those numbers as that Jewish-Americans support immigration?

    The people who do actually support immigration are elites of all backgrounds, hence Steve finding only 3 (0.75%) of the Forbes 400 have voiced opinions against uncontrolled immigration.

    Cf. my reply to ‘AnotherDad’ [supra], who had likewise replied to your earlier comment; both his reply to you and my reply to him were posted before Steve got around to posting your earlier reply to me, to which I am replying, here and now.

    In short, your data in no way support your conclusion!

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  247. OT: The world’s first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar calls for the boycotting and shunning of a British Grandmaster for saying unflattering things:
    First female Grandmaster attacks idea that women aren’t “hardwired” for chess
    British Grandmaster Nigel Short feels that men are “hardwired” to play the game better than women.

    Asked about his thoughts on the lack of women competing in chess, Short, 49, told New In Chess magazine: “Why should they function in the same way? I don’t have the slightest problem in acknowledging that my wife possesses a much higher degree of emotional intelligence than I do.

    “Likewise, she doesn’t feel embarrassed in asking me to manoeuvre the car out of our narrow garage. One is not better than the other, we just have different skills.

    “It would be wonderful to see more girls playing chess, and at a higher level, but rather than fretting about inequality, perhaps we should just gracefully accept it as a fact.”

    His comments have been derided by female chess players, including the world’s first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar.

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.3040660/first-female-grandmaster-attacks-idea-that-women-aren-t-hardwired-for-chess-1.3041069

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    OT: The world’s first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar calls for the boycotting and shunning of a British Grandmaster for saying unflattering things:
     
    Ha! The Polgar sisters are the textbook illustration of "the exception that proves the rule".

    Like Leopold Mozart and Earl Woods, László Polgár was an obsessive-but-tolerable father-teacher of children who had the patience to put up with him. He wrote a book about his method, Bring Up Genius!

    So, yeah, the first female grandmasters (through competition) were daughters of the same single-minded nut. Genius-by-manufacture. That's what it took for them to catch up with the boys.
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  248. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver

    There is no basis, whatsoever, to claim that that 50% figure “proves” that “[m]ost Jews oppose immigration” to the United States, let alone to all historically “White countries,” as ‘Southfarthing’ blithely claimed.
     
    The results of polls that ask whether immigration is "too high" or "too low" can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all. But in the case of Jews I don't think this interpretation applies. People who want immigration halted (not merely 'reduced') routinely show up on comments threads on immigration-related topics and they are hopping mad. I don't think I've come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue, and the best explanation is that Jews deep down want immigration to continue indefinitely. Look at the way commenter "SFG" who posts here pussyfoots around the issue - and he's only half Jewish.

    “The results of polls that ask whether immigration is ‘too high’ or ‘too low’ can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all.”

    Nonsense!

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    How is it nonsense? Mainstream polls, as far as I can tell, never ask whether immigration should continue or be halted. The average man on the street hardly thinks about these issues at all, so when asked he thinks of the region he lives in or has visited and bases his answer on his feelings about the demographic mix he finds there. Those who dislike the demographic mix the question makes them think of select "too high"; those who think the demographic mix is reasonable select "about right"; lefties, immigrants and miscellaneous anti-whites select "too low." It's not a perfect proxy for a referendum on immigration but it's indicative enough.
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  249. @Southfarthing
    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data? Narratives (lists of selected claims) aren't reliable.

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson's vision of a borderless future, so I'm skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they're separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).

    It seems like a much broader problem than just Jews. Instead, most Jews seem to be part of the majority of Whites who are less enthusiastic for demographic replacement than elites.

    Most of my highly educated White friends support immigration and Richard Branson’s vision of a borderless future, so I’m skeptical when we talk about Jewish liberals as if they’re separate from others who hold the same views (like pro-uncontrolled-immigration Christians and pro-uncontrolled-immigration Republicans).

    Some lead, and some follow. Some rule, and some submit. Some advance their ethnic interests, and some pursue their (short-term) personal interests in an environment in which the pursuit of their ethnic interests is forbidden and dangerous.

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  250. @D. K.
    "The results of polls that ask whether immigration is 'too high' or 'too low' can generally be interpreted as referendum on whether there should be any immigration a all."

    Nonsense!

    How is it nonsense? Mainstream polls, as far as I can tell, never ask whether immigration should continue or be halted. The average man on the street hardly thinks about these issues at all, so when asked he thinks of the region he lives in or has visited and bases his answer on his feelings about the demographic mix he finds there. Those who dislike the demographic mix the question makes them think of select “too high”; those who think the demographic mix is reasonable select “about right”; lefties, immigrants and miscellaneous anti-whites select “too low.” It’s not a perfect proxy for a referendum on immigration but it’s indicative enough.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    Polls never ask if immigration should be totally halted-- which has never happened in the history of the United States, of course-- therefore anyone who tells a pollster that he believes that our current level of immigration-- meaning the combination of both legal and illegal immigration (as of 2009, in the cited poll's case)-- is "too high" should be assumed by us to be in favor of halting all immigration to this country?!? Lord Almighty!

    If you honestly believe that half of all American Jews (meaning adherents of Judaism)-- let alone half of all Jewish Americans (meaning those of Jewish descent who identify as Jewish, whether religiously, culturally or ethnically)-- are in favor of ending immigration to the United States-- let alone to all White-dominated countries, everywhere in the world-- than you are clinically delusional, and in need of psychiatric intervention! There is no way in Heaven or Hell that a majority of Jews in America, religious and/or otherwise, hold such radical opinions on immigration (as I myself, as aforementioned, do).

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  251. @Southfarthing

    I don’t think I’ve come across a single identifiably Jewish commenter who expresses himself so forcefully on the issue...
     
    Amren gets a lot of support from Jews.

    The 71% intermarriage rate for non-Orthodox Jews means most younger people with Jewish ancestry today are mixed Christian-Jewish, so it's expected that most Jewish commenters on these sites will be half-Jews.

    Most people won't hang out on sites where people you otherwise agree with engineer a narrative against you no matter what you do. "Spend your limited time with people who value you."

    Most people won’t hang out on sites where people you otherwise agree with engineer a narrative against you no matter what you do.

    Heh, if that were true no white would ever visit a mainstream media outlet.

    But look, your claim only holds true for neo-nazi sites. They’re the only people who believe in a primordial Jewish wickedness such that Jews would have been damned no matter what they ever did.

    More reasonable critics simply refuse to turn a blind eye to a twentieth century history in which Jewish anti-white activism played a prominent role and whose effects are felt ever more forcefully. This isn’t “engineering a narrative”; it’s speaking truth to power.

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  252. @AnotherDad
    > Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.

    First off that's not what the poll says. You can barely get to 50% on "immigration too high".

    But yes, a lot of Jews quite reasonable folks, and provide a reasonable answer on immigration when posed as a normal policy issue. (All anyone has to do is open one's eyes to see high immigration is making the US more unpleasant.)

    But ...
    --> you'll note that the Jewish figures are 20+ points more "left" (pro-immigration, open-borders) compared to other whites

    --> every formal Jewish organization, the elites, leaders, ethnic spokespeople are rabidly pro-immigration

    The key point is not immigration as a policy-wonk issue like seat-belt laws or charter schools, it's ideology--Jewish minoritarianism.

    Basically, most Jews believe--at some deep level--that Jews have the right to live in any nation. That no nation should be allowed to keep Jews out. And that in any country, Jews must be accepted by the majority. And that any attempts to exclude them are racist!, anti-semitic--fundamentally immoral and illegitimate. In other words, they don't believe in the legitimacy of organic nations.

    This is a quite rational ideology for a middle man minority to hold. However, it's an extremely nasty, hostile ideology to the interests of 99%** of the world that wants to live in their own nations, amongst their own people, following their own traditions and culture, in charge of their own destiny. (** I'll grant it's not 99% if you consider the large chunk--20% or so--of 3rd world peoples who'd like to emmigrate to a white nation in order to get a better life. But those people mostly would rather stay in their own nations with their own people and culture ... except for the superior economic prospects in white nations.)

    That's the issue: Whether people actually have the *right* to their own nations.


    And you aren't going to find Hollywood any majoritarian, pro-national narratives. You've get the 221st movie about the Holocaust, or slavery\Jim Crow\civil rights\evil-southern-redneck. But you're not going to find a movie sympathetic say to California white people's annoyance and despair seeing their neighborhood become a barrio, their kids schools become foreign, America hostile enclaves. Or showcase the drama of a white family dealing with a black home-invasion, rape. Or even a white co-ed gang raped by black football players at Big State U. You won't find a sympathetic portrayal of Italians struggling as their community fills with black refugees and becomes an unsafe, African, crime ridden slum. Or much less, Italians taking the law into their own hands to try and drive out the Africans. Or heroically taking to civilian patrolling of their coasts to drive off African invaders.

    Those narratives are far more realistic and legitimate than the minorities-are-sacred, diversity-is-beautiful pablum Hollywood spews out. But majorities defending their nation, race, culture is a non-starter.

    Again, that's the real issue here--minoritarianism. Do people actually have a right to their own nations?

    Yes, my comments are only regarding Jews who are playing on the team of the West, not some separate team.

    For my grandparents on my Ashkenazi side, 100% of their great-grandchildren have mixed Christian-Jewish ancestry and 0% of them identify as Jews in any meaningful way. The Ashkenazi side of my family is more conservative than the WASP side of my family… more like John Milius than Steven Spielberg.

    The only data we have to test how many other Jews are oriented toward assimilation is that 71% of non-Orthodox Jews marry non-Jews. That’s consistent with the Jews I know, and with famous Jews, who generally marry non-Jews.

    The numbers are that Jewish-Americans are clearly
    more against immigration than for it. Good. Let the people of Richard Feynman and Harrison Ford, and everybody who likes them be on our side. I can’t link my influential friends to these sites as long as we demonize Jews.

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    • Replies: @pseudonymic handle
    Oh dear me, you "can't link" your "influential friends" to Steve Sailer because his commenters - the majority of whom are part or wholly Jewish - demonize Jews. I'm stricken.

    Jews generally marry non-Jews - so they aren't Jewish, am I correctly interpreting your hasbara? Let's see - Michael Douglas - mother not Jewish - so by your definition he isn't - married Catherine Zeta Jones, so his children - 75% European, couldn't possibly be Jewish. Except his son had a bar mitzvah and felt bullied when he wore his Jewish star in Europe.

    And every last purportedly conservative and/or semi-Jewish commenter somehow feels impelled to note his Jewish origins in his pseudonym.

    I could go on . . . and on . . . but your sort of comment and mindset and ethnicity is impervious to logic.

    As an earlier commenter noted, the root of the problem - in every Western country - is that Jews believe they have the right to live anywhere and be accepted in every country as both fully Jewish and fully American/Canadian/Australian/French/Swedish/Irish. And in every such country, they are leading the way in calling for hate speech legislation and more immigration. Except, of course, for your cherry-picked personal anecdotes of how "most" Jews oppose immigration.

    You really do think the locals are irredeemably stupid, don't you?
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  253. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver
    How is it nonsense? Mainstream polls, as far as I can tell, never ask whether immigration should continue or be halted. The average man on the street hardly thinks about these issues at all, so when asked he thinks of the region he lives in or has visited and bases his answer on his feelings about the demographic mix he finds there. Those who dislike the demographic mix the question makes them think of select "too high"; those who think the demographic mix is reasonable select "about right"; lefties, immigrants and miscellaneous anti-whites select "too low." It's not a perfect proxy for a referendum on immigration but it's indicative enough.

    Polls never ask if immigration should be totally halted– which has never happened in the history of the United States, of course– therefore anyone who tells a pollster that he believes that our current level of immigration– meaning the combination of both legal and illegal immigration (as of 2009, in the cited poll’s case)– is “too high” should be assumed by us to be in favor of halting all immigration to this country?!? Lord Almighty!

    If you honestly believe that half of all American Jews (meaning adherents of Judaism)– let alone half of all Jewish Americans (meaning those of Jewish descent who identify as Jewish, whether religiously, culturally or ethnically)– are in favor of ending immigration to the United States– let alone to all White-dominated countries, everywhere in the world– than you are clinically delusional, and in need of psychiatric intervention! There is no way in Heaven or Hell that a majority of Jews in America, religious and/or otherwise, hold such radical opinions on immigration (as I myself, as aforementioned, do).

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Have you even followed this thread? Read it a few more times. Obviously I don't believe that half of all Jews favor ending immigration. I explicitly stated that my reasoning regarding immigration polls shouldn't be applied to Jewish opinions.

    Anyway, readers please pardon my excessive posting today. Sailer, thank you for allowing me and my strong opinions to participate in this discussion - even if what I felt was my most important post failed to pass the censorship criteria.

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  254. @International Jew

    Italy’s Mare Nostrum marine rescue program
     
    A more honest name would have been "mare eorum".

    A more honest name would have been “mare eorum”.

    Yeah, sponsored by Italia “patria earum”.

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  255. @Massimo Heitor
    One last post: http://www.newsweek.com/2015/03/13/isiss-next-crusade-310406.html. ISIS is using boat immigration to conquer Rome and Italy and NYT is siding with ISIS?

    My dear Massimo, did you miss my having said exactly that, and that the West’s military meddling in Moslem lands exacerbates the refugee flow, in my comment No. 65?

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  256. matt says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    David Frum offers a reminder of Australia's successful approach to discouraging illegal migrants: https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/590118408513048577

    Brad DeLong responds: https://twitter.com/delong/status/590119660214833153

    When Frum tweets, how do you think he avoids getting the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis all over the keyboard? Does he wear gloves?

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  257. @D. K.
    Polls never ask if immigration should be totally halted-- which has never happened in the history of the United States, of course-- therefore anyone who tells a pollster that he believes that our current level of immigration-- meaning the combination of both legal and illegal immigration (as of 2009, in the cited poll's case)-- is "too high" should be assumed by us to be in favor of halting all immigration to this country?!? Lord Almighty!

    If you honestly believe that half of all American Jews (meaning adherents of Judaism)-- let alone half of all Jewish Americans (meaning those of Jewish descent who identify as Jewish, whether religiously, culturally or ethnically)-- are in favor of ending immigration to the United States-- let alone to all White-dominated countries, everywhere in the world-- than you are clinically delusional, and in need of psychiatric intervention! There is no way in Heaven or Hell that a majority of Jews in America, religious and/or otherwise, hold such radical opinions on immigration (as I myself, as aforementioned, do).

    Have you even followed this thread? Read it a few more times. Obviously I don’t believe that half of all Jews favor ending immigration. I explicitly stated that my reasoning regarding immigration polls shouldn’t be applied to Jewish opinions.

    Anyway, readers please pardon my excessive posting today. Sailer, thank you for allowing me and my strong opinions to participate in this discussion – even if what I felt was my most important post failed to pass the censorship criteria.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    Sorry! I was replying to your later comment, in light of the debate about what that lone question from that 2009 poll did or did not mean, without referring back to your earlier comment. (As someone who reads hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of comments per day, I am unable to keep them all in mind, at any given moment.) If I had, I certainly would have cut out that second paragraph, in my previous response to you, and replaced it with the following:

    "I find your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior to be almost as ludicrous as your General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior."

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  258. D. K. says:

    You started this line of comments with the following bald-faced statement (in response to a quote from ‘Massimo’): “Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.”

    Your embedded hyperlink led to a post by Steve, from last summer, discussing the results of a 2009 poll. That poll was conducted on behalf of an organization seeking to limit immigration. It dealt primarily with illegal immigration. Its intent was to compare the opinions of various groups of religious adherents to those of their denominations’ leaders. It was limited to respondents who were categorized as “likely voters.” In other words, the Jewish Americans who were sampled were limited to American Jews (the term that I use to refer to those Americans who are religious Jews, rather than ethnic or cultural Jews, like my atheistic brother-in-law, who do not practice Judaism as a religious faith) who also were “likely voters” according to whatever predictive measure might have been used. I find it very doubtful that that subset of religious Jews faithfully represents the political opinions of all Jewish Americans. Call me cynical– based on my own training in the social sciences (M.S.), my four semesters and two quarters of graduate-level Statistics, my professional experience (in psychology and law, inter alia), and my life experiences, over nearly six decades.

    At any rate, the lone question on which you have based your ludicrous claim asks that (very likely unrepresentative) sample of Jewish Americans whether the total level of immigration to the United States, at that time, including both legal and illegal immigration, was too high, too low, or just right, using an estimate of about 1.5 million per year. From the fact that 50% of the sample of religious Jews said “too high,” you made the above-noted bald-faced claim. As I explained in my reply to ‘AnotherDad’ [supra], such a outsize conclusion from that lone poll question is utterly ridiculous!

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    That should have been a direct reply to 'Southfarthing' instead of a general comment. Sorry!!
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  259. @Cagey Beast
    OT: The world's first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar calls for the boycotting and shunning of a British Grandmaster for saying unflattering things:
    First female Grandmaster attacks idea that women aren't "hardwired" for chess
    British Grandmaster Nigel Short feels that men are "hardwired" to play the game better than women.

    Asked about his thoughts on the lack of women competing in chess, Short, 49, told New In Chess magazine: "Why should they function in the same way? I don't have the slightest problem in acknowledging that my wife possesses a much higher degree of emotional intelligence than I do.

    "Likewise, she doesn't feel embarrassed in asking me to manoeuvre the car out of our narrow garage. One is not better than the other, we just have different skills.

    "It would be wonderful to see more girls playing chess, and at a higher level, but rather than fretting about inequality, perhaps we should just gracefully accept it as a fact."

    His comments have been derided by female chess players, including the world's first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar.
     
    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.3040660/first-female-grandmaster-attacks-idea-that-women-aren-t-hardwired-for-chess-1.3041069

    OT: The world’s first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar calls for the boycotting and shunning of a British Grandmaster for saying unflattering things:

    Ha! The Polgar sisters are the textbook illustration of “the exception that proves the rule”.

    Like Leopold Mozart and Earl Woods, László Polgár was an obsessive-but-tolerable father-teacher of children who had the patience to put up with him. He wrote a book about his method, Bring Up Genius!

    So, yeah, the first female grandmasters (through competition) were daughters of the same single-minded nut. Genius-by-manufacture. That’s what it took for them to catch up with the boys.

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  260. You started this line of comments with the following bald-faced statement (in response to a quote from ‘Massimo’): “Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries.”

    Come on, how hard would it have been to scroll up the page and realize it was another poster who wrote that?

    Apology accepted.

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  261. @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa

    Yeah, right. Peoples too irresponsible to handle simple Christian chastity are yet magically responsible enough to apply artificial contraception and make it work. Have any other circles you’d like us to square?

    Feel free to inject them yourself, Dr Depo Man, but please don’t put it on our tax bill.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    Feel free to inject them yourself, Dr Depo Man, but please don’t put it on our tax bill.
     
    Chastity is all well and good, but contraception helps you to "trust, but verify."

    As for not putting it on the tax bill, why ever not? It only costs a pittance and it's not unconstitutional.

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  262. @Reg Cæsar

    For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa
     
    Yeah, right. Peoples too irresponsible to handle simple Christian chastity are yet magically responsible enough to apply artificial contraception and make it work. Have any other circles you'd like us to square?

    Feel free to inject them yourself, Dr Depo Man, but please don't put it on our tax bill.

    Feel free to inject them yourself, Dr Depo Man, but please don’t put it on our tax bill.

    Chastity is all well and good, but contraception helps you to “trust, but verify.”

    As for not putting it on the tax bill, why ever not? It only costs a pittance and it’s not unconstitutional.

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  263. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver
    Have you even followed this thread? Read it a few more times. Obviously I don't believe that half of all Jews favor ending immigration. I explicitly stated that my reasoning regarding immigration polls shouldn't be applied to Jewish opinions.

    Anyway, readers please pardon my excessive posting today. Sailer, thank you for allowing me and my strong opinions to participate in this discussion - even if what I felt was my most important post failed to pass the censorship criteria.

    Sorry! I was replying to your later comment, in light of the debate about what that lone question from that 2009 poll did or did not mean, without referring back to your earlier comment. (As someone who reads hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of comments per day, I am unable to keep them all in mind, at any given moment.) If I had, I certainly would have cut out that second paragraph, in my previous response to you, and replaced it with the following:

    “I find your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior to be almost as ludicrous as your General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior.”

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    “I find your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior to be almost as ludicrous as your General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior.”
     
    We still seem to be talking past one another. I don't have a Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior. I have a general interpretive framework for immigration polls which enquire about immigration levels and which I claim doesn't apply to Jewish opinions on immigration. If you find it ludicrous that is your right, but you haven't critiqued my reasoning so I'm at a loss as to why.
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  264. bomag [AKA "doombuggy"] says:
    @Hairless Neanderthal
    What is stopping us from counter-migrating? I say we let Maduro fly the incredibly beautiful, resource rich nation of Venezuela into the ground, then mass-migrate Anglos there and start over, this time with more big ass fences and machine gun nests. If you don't mind a tropical climate, it's hard to do much better. Then trickle down the rest of the continent after several generations, picking off countries one by one. Easy.

    counter-migrating

    Excellent.

    Also, we should start stripping certain criminals and traitors of their US citizenship and sending them into exile.

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  265. D. K. says:
    @D. K.
    You started this line of comments with the following bald-faced statement (in response to a quote from 'Massimo'): "Most Jews oppose immigration to White countries."

    Your embedded hyperlink led to a post by Steve, from last summer, discussing the results of a 2009 poll. That poll was conducted on behalf of an organization seeking to limit immigration. It dealt primarily with illegal immigration. Its intent was to compare the opinions of various groups of religious adherents to those of their denominations' leaders. It was limited to respondents who were categorized as "likely voters." In other words, the Jewish Americans who were sampled were limited to American Jews (the term that I use to refer to those Americans who are religious Jews, rather than ethnic or cultural Jews, like my atheistic brother-in-law, who do not practice Judaism as a religious faith) who also were "likely voters" according to whatever predictive measure might have been used. I find it very doubtful that that subset of religious Jews faithfully represents the political opinions of all Jewish Americans. Call me cynical-- based on my own training in the social sciences (M.S.), my four semesters and two quarters of graduate-level Statistics, my professional experience (in psychology and law, inter alia), and my life experiences, over nearly six decades.

    At any rate, the lone question on which you have based your ludicrous claim asks that (very likely unrepresentative) sample of Jewish Americans whether the total level of immigration to the United States, at that time, including both legal and illegal immigration, was too high, too low, or just right, using an estimate of about 1.5 million per year. From the fact that 50% of the sample of religious Jews said "too high," you made the above-noted bald-faced claim. As I explained in my reply to 'AnotherDad' [supra], such a outsize conclusion from that lone poll question is utterly ridiculous!

    That should have been a direct reply to ‘Southfarthing’ instead of a general comment. Sorry!!

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  266. What is stopping us from counter-migrating? I say we let Maduro fly the incredibly beautiful, resource rich nation of Venezuela into the ground, then mass-migrate Anglos there and start over, this time with more big ass fences and machine gun nests. If you don’t mind a tropical climate, it’s hard to do much better. Then trickle down the rest of the continent after several generations, picking off countries one by one. Easy.

    I’ve been looking at Guyana myself, but I think I’ll stand my ground and make my stand right here.

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  267. @D. K.
    Sorry! I was replying to your later comment, in light of the debate about what that lone question from that 2009 poll did or did not mean, without referring back to your earlier comment. (As someone who reads hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of comments per day, I am unable to keep them all in mind, at any given moment.) If I had, I certainly would have cut out that second paragraph, in my previous response to you, and replaced it with the following:

    "I find your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior to be almost as ludicrous as your General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior."

    “I find your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior to be almost as ludicrous as your General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior.”

    We still seem to be talking past one another. I don’t have a Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior. I have a general interpretive framework for immigration polls which enquire about immigration levels and which I claim doesn’t apply to Jewish opinions on immigration. If you find it ludicrous that is your right, but you haven’t critiqued my reasoning so I’m at a loss as to why.

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    Oh, but you do. You have a General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior that states that when people are presented with a specific figure, estimating recent annual immigration into their country-- in the case of that 2009 poll of American religious denominations, 1.5 million immigrants (legal and illegal, combined)-- and asked whether that figure is too high, too low, or just right, going forward, year to year, instead of answering the question that they are being explicitly asked, they instead answer the unasked question of whether or not they want immigration ended altogether. Your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior states that Jews, apparently alone among all such discernible demographic groups, instead answer the question that they have been explicitly asked, without using it as an opportunity to opine, sub rosa, on another question that they have not been asked, despite the fact that doing so would have represented their lone chance to answer that unasked question, since it is never asked.
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  268. Marty T says:
    @Massimo Heitor
    The news of this mass African immigration to countries like Italy is beyond horrific. Italy exists as a tribal extended family nation state like Israel or Japan. Accepting mass numbers of Africans that include large populations that have zero intent or interest in assimilation or respecting the host country is a permanent death sentence for anything remotely close to what Italy exists as. Additionally, many of these exact same African countries have violently expelled their white Euro populations and influences with extreme prejudice in the past century. The justification was that the non-whites should have their own land and whites should go back to Europe. But now Italians and Europeans shouldn't have their own lands? And when blood inter-tribal conflict erupted in Africa, sure the whites could be expelled back to Europe. I shudder to think at the same conflicts repeating in Italy this time, and ethnic Italians are forced to flee Italy. Reading Sailer makes me feel better in that he articulates my perspective well and is someone who can make this perspective heard. I presume Sailer is ultimately pro-Israel, but is critical of the common Jewish hypocrisy of Jews supporting extremely strict closed borders in Israel but open borders in other white countries. Ilana Mercer and a minority of other Jews share this perspective.

    Jews have been disproportionately supportive of open borders in this country, but many European countries have almost no Jews. Why are they just as bad on immigration? In the end, white gentiles must accept we are largely at fault, and then fix the problem.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    That's all well and good, jack, but in my experience comments like yours are a precursor to claiming that because Jewish influence is not responsible for the entire mess it shouldn't be criticized even for the parts for which it is responsible. So could I ask you to clarify whether this is what you are suggesting or not?
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  269. @Alfa158
    Quite true, I travel a lot in Europe and the unarmed cop is pretty much confined to the UK. I've seen meter maids in Italy who were packing. They haven't gotten armed up to quite the exent of US yet, and they seem to be much less willing to shoot, but that may be because the criminals are less armed so they don't have to use their guns as often.
    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city polce force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. And not even pistol round carbine versions, these are 5.56 30 round magazine military rifles. What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running redlights?

    Here in the US my almost crime free little beach city police force has racks on the traffic enforcement motorcycles that carry M4s. . . .What the hell, are they expecting to expecting to be ticketing Al Qaeda terrorists instead of soccer moms for running red lights?

    Maybe the police in your little beach city are concerned that students from historically black colleges and universities might decide to start holding their spring break Freakniks there. Better safe than sorry.

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  270. notsaying says:
    @Joe Walker
    Some of these people’s countries wouldn’t be such a mess if Europe didn’t allow their rich crooks to relocate there, with all the money they stole safely invested in multimillion dollar property and other safe Western investments.

    How about some specifics instead of the usual blame whitey nonsense that leftists resort to every time blacks show themselves to be inferior.

    I’m no leftist. I’m an American who is sick of the rich people of Mexico and Central America refusing to do right by their own country and instead shipping their poor here. I don’t think we should be expected to pay for their people. And I sure don’t want those very same rich crooks coming up here where they and their money will be safe. I think a very similar thing is part of what is happening in Europe. A big part of the current surge in people taking boats to Europe is related to war in the Middle East and Africa but a lot of it is not. I don’t think European should be expected to pay for people whose government officials send all their money to private bank accounts. I’m against the global elite jerking the rest of us around. No way am I anti-white.

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  271. @Marty T
    Jews have been disproportionately supportive of open borders in this country, but many European countries have almost no Jews. Why are they just as bad on immigration? In the end, white gentiles must accept we are largely at fault, and then fix the problem.

    That’s all well and good, jack, but in my experience comments like yours are a precursor to claiming that because Jewish influence is not responsible for the entire mess it shouldn’t be criticized even for the parts for which it is responsible. So could I ask you to clarify whether this is what you are suggesting or not?

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  272. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @ben tillman

    What are we basing our opinion on that most Jews support immigration if not on data?
     
    Your poll didn't say what you said it did, but counting Jewish heads is non-responsive. What matters is what Jews do as a group, not what each one believes.

    Jewish support for immigration is about the opinion and actions of the organized Jewish community with its astounding array of resources. But, if you want to focus on specific Jews, we can see a pattern in country after country where one Jew appears to throw open the immigration floodgates single-handedly. Alan Shatter in Ireland, Barbara Roche in the UK, and (less directly) David Schwarz in Sweden. There are no counterexamples.

    For God's sake -- look at Stephen Steinlight. He was an important insider in the Jewish community, and, in expressing his dissent from mass immigration, he based his opposition solely on "Is it good for the Jews?" while calling White opposition to immigration based on ethnic interests "vile".

    It is well-documented that the Jewish community was the proponent of the 1965 immigration act in this country, and the reigning ideologies that underpin the dispossession of White America have Jewish origins. Your apologia for the Jews in this regard is most assuredly not based on the data. and it is completely at odds with biological theory and Jewish history.

    Your apologia for the Jews in this regard is most assuredly not based on the data. and it is completely at odds with biological theory and Jewish history.

    Which biological theory are you referring to?

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Which biological theory are you referring to?
     
    Not "which"; "which part of".

    The part that says that living things generally pursue their self-interest, absent manipulation by other living things. It's theoretically unsound to posit that the White race devised and deployed anti-White ideologies sua sponte.
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  273. @Anonymous
    What's prepping?

    What’s prepping?
    Google makes it pretty easy to answer questions like this for yourself.

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  274. @Joe Walker
    So it is basically the fault of the Republicans and the Catholic Church that Africans can't control their sex drives? Also, why is it the responsibility of non-Africans to provide birth control to Africans?

    So it is basically the fault of the Republicans and the Catholic Church that Africans can’t control their sex drives? Also, why is it the responsibility of non-Africans to provide birth control to Africans?

    It is in our own self interest. The idea that Black Africans can be magically taught to “control their sex drives” is utopian drivel on a par with the idea that Black Africans can all be magicall taught algegbra II. Genetics and culture are destiny. The West opened this can of worms by importing medical science and technology to a continent that wasn’t prepared for it, we have a duty to fix the problem.

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  275. Mr. Anon says:

    “Southfarthing says:

    The poll was on all immigration, not just illegal immigration. View the question directly here.

    Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure.”

    Great. It would be nice if they voted the same way they answer polls.

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    • Replies: @Southfarthing

    >>"Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure.”

    Great. It would be nice if they voted the same way they answer polls.
     
    Yeah, and the way to accomplish that is to welcome like-minded Jews to our side, just as we welcome guests to our dinner table.

    Jews' incentives are highly aligned against uncontrolled immigration, so it shouldn't be hard for smart people to convince them.
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  276. Mr. Anon says:

    “Harry Baldwin says:

    “”What’s prepping?””

    Google makes it pretty easy to answer questions like this for yourself.”

    Google? What’s that?

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  277. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver

    “I find your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior to be almost as ludicrous as your General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior.”
     
    We still seem to be talking past one another. I don't have a Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior. I have a general interpretive framework for immigration polls which enquire about immigration levels and which I claim doesn't apply to Jewish opinions on immigration. If you find it ludicrous that is your right, but you haven't critiqued my reasoning so I'm at a loss as to why.

    Oh, but you do. You have a General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior that states that when people are presented with a specific figure, estimating recent annual immigration into their country– in the case of that 2009 poll of American religious denominations, 1.5 million immigrants (legal and illegal, combined)– and asked whether that figure is too high, too low, or just right, going forward, year to year, instead of answering the question that they are being explicitly asked, they instead answer the unasked question of whether or not they want immigration ended altogether. Your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior states that Jews, apparently alone among all such discernible demographic groups, instead answer the question that they have been explicitly asked, without using it as an opportunity to opine, sub rosa, on another question that they have not been asked, despite the fact that doing so would have represented their lone chance to answer that unasked question, since it is never asked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    What does "1.5 million immigrants per year" mean to people who never think seriously or systematically about immigration? The only real-world reference most people have for it is what they see on the streets with their eyes. If they dislike the demographic balance that greets their sight they conclude that an immigration level of 1.5 million has caused it and thus immigration is "too high" - even though the immigration rate per se has nothing to do with the demographic balance they're reflecting on.

    Jews on average think much more seriously and systematically about immigration and are thus much more likely to know something about it. This is reason enough to treat their opinions differently. But there is also the well-known love affair of Jews and immigration, and the observable fact that precious few Jews are outraged by the fact of ongoing immigration. This too should urge one to interpret Jewish immigration polling differently.

    Lastly, to the extent that I have a "special theory" of Jewish polling behavior it is specifically restricted to immigration polls, so technically it cannot be described as a Special Theory of Jewish Polling Behavior because that description includes all polls.
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  278. HA says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Actually the truth is American social conservatives, including Reagan, probably bear more blame than any one else in America for the current demographic disaster in Africa. For decades every Republican administration, as a sop to the social conservative wing, has defunded UN programs to promote contraception and access to legal abortions in Africa. Do some research on how much harm George W. Bush's reimposition of the global gag rule did to efforts to stop population growth in Africa. Obama's administration has actually been far better on this issue, which in the long run could be one of the determining issues of the fate of the human race. If American social conservatives really believe that every African baby is sacred, they should be forced to adopt them.

    Of course, on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.

    “…on a global basis the Catholic Church has also been a disaster on this issue.”

    Excuse me? It’s not the Catholic Church who encouraged Spaniards and Italians to stop having babies. They did that in direct opposition to what the Catholic Church was telling them.

    And as I noted earlier, you can be Catholic to the core and still consider it deeply un-Christian for Europe to be siphoning off Africa’s best and brightest so as to turn them into their new underclass and their new Bosnias.

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  279. @D. K.
    Oh, but you do. You have a General Theory of Poll-Taking Behavior that states that when people are presented with a specific figure, estimating recent annual immigration into their country-- in the case of that 2009 poll of American religious denominations, 1.5 million immigrants (legal and illegal, combined)-- and asked whether that figure is too high, too low, or just right, going forward, year to year, instead of answering the question that they are being explicitly asked, they instead answer the unasked question of whether or not they want immigration ended altogether. Your Special Theory of Jewish Poll-Taking Behavior states that Jews, apparently alone among all such discernible demographic groups, instead answer the question that they have been explicitly asked, without using it as an opportunity to opine, sub rosa, on another question that they have not been asked, despite the fact that doing so would have represented their lone chance to answer that unasked question, since it is never asked.

    What does “1.5 million immigrants per year” mean to people who never think seriously or systematically about immigration? The only real-world reference most people have for it is what they see on the streets with their eyes. If they dislike the demographic balance that greets their sight they conclude that an immigration level of 1.5 million has caused it and thus immigration is “too high” – even though the immigration rate per se has nothing to do with the demographic balance they’re reflecting on.

    Jews on average think much more seriously and systematically about immigration and are thus much more likely to know something about it. This is reason enough to treat their opinions differently. But there is also the well-known love affair of Jews and immigration, and the observable fact that precious few Jews are outraged by the fact of ongoing immigration. This too should urge one to interpret Jewish immigration polling differently.

    Lastly, to the extent that I have a “special theory” of Jewish polling behavior it is specifically restricted to immigration polls, so technically it cannot be described as a Special Theory of Jewish Polling Behavior because that description includes all polls.

    Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    Sorry, but Herr Einstein was apparently unhappy with the "Theory of Relativity" label for his own theory, springing from his famous reference-free paper of September 1905; so, you are in august company. Regardless, as an American of a certain age, trained in Statistics, the social sciences, and questionnaire construction, I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports. Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable. They have a window on the wider world, certainly as to the continental United States, through the mass media, and what they see makes the case look exponentially worse, to them, than the sobering reality. They see Blacks represented as if they were close to a third of the population, when they are barely over one-eighth. They see Asians and Jews grossly over-represented. They see more and more Hispanics, in recent years, but the constant news-media drumbeat that Hispanic numbers are surging, and that they are the most important political constituency in the country now, makes Hispanics' general under-representation in commercials, television shows, and films, which drive perceptions of the number of other racial and ethnic minorities, almost beside the point.
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  280. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver
    What does "1.5 million immigrants per year" mean to people who never think seriously or systematically about immigration? The only real-world reference most people have for it is what they see on the streets with their eyes. If they dislike the demographic balance that greets their sight they conclude that an immigration level of 1.5 million has caused it and thus immigration is "too high" - even though the immigration rate per se has nothing to do with the demographic balance they're reflecting on.

    Jews on average think much more seriously and systematically about immigration and are thus much more likely to know something about it. This is reason enough to treat their opinions differently. But there is also the well-known love affair of Jews and immigration, and the observable fact that precious few Jews are outraged by the fact of ongoing immigration. This too should urge one to interpret Jewish immigration polling differently.

    Lastly, to the extent that I have a "special theory" of Jewish polling behavior it is specifically restricted to immigration polls, so technically it cannot be described as a Special Theory of Jewish Polling Behavior because that description includes all polls.

    Sorry, but Herr Einstein was apparently unhappy with the “Theory of Relativity” label for his own theory, springing from his famous reference-free paper of September 1905; so, you are in august company. Regardless, as an American of a certain age, trained in Statistics, the social sciences, and questionnaire construction, I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports. Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable. They have a window on the wider world, certainly as to the continental United States, through the mass media, and what they see makes the case look exponentially worse, to them, than the sobering reality. They see Blacks represented as if they were close to a third of the population, when they are barely over one-eighth. They see Asians and Jews grossly over-represented. They see more and more Hispanics, in recent years, but the constant news-media drumbeat that Hispanic numbers are surging, and that they are the most important political constituency in the country now, makes Hispanics’ general under-representation in commercials, television shows, and films, which drive perceptions of the number of other racial and ethnic minorities, almost beside the point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports.
     
    Here is a figure that ought to be published. We are now approaching the point, if we haven't already exceeded it, where the USA has received more non-Europeans over the course of the past four centuries than Europeans. Of course most people won't understand this because Europeans still comprise the majority. But this is because Europeans have been here since 1607 having children, grandchildren, and so on. Thus, the approximately 45 million European immigrants who have come here from 1607 onward have grown to around 210 million people.

    Meanwhile since 1965 close to 50 million, overwhelmingly non-Europeans have come to the US. And that figure is growing each day. But since they have had much less time to reproduce, they are still fewer in number. I think if the MSM were to trumpet this fact it might at least counter the fairness argument that was one of the driving forces behind blowing the doors off immigration in the first place. People said it was unfair that Europeans got into the US, but others did not. Well, that argument can and should be put to bed. Of course it won't because these numbers will never be discussed.

    , @silviosilver

    I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports.
     
    You can play the expertise card all you like, but I'm sorry I don't believe there is any way at all you can "assure" me the average American understands precisely what that figures imports because there is no established reference fact against which to judge his opinion. Or are you going to pretend that what 1.5 million immigrants imports has somehow been scientifically established - like the force of gravity on the surface of the earth, say, such that a person could guess more closely or less closely the actual figure?

    Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable.
     
    I suppose it would be laughable if I claimed that the interviewee asks the interviewer to wait a moment while he makes a visor with his hand and peers up the street, turns around and peers down the street, and then tells the interviewer with a smile and a nod that he thinks the immigration rate is "about right" and bids him a cheerio.

    In reality, what I said was he bases his estimation of what immigration means on places he has lived and visited, which have given him a sense of his country's demographic balance. But yes, I should have included all possible sources of demographic-related belief-formation, but what they all come down to is that person having a set of ideas and feelings about the demographic balance and that these ideas and feelings influence the answer he gives.

    What would you have us believe? That he whips out his ipad and runs a few quick demographic simulations before screwing his lips together, nodding slowly and studiously opining that "it's...about right...I'd say"?

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  281. iSteveFan says:
    @D. K.
    Sorry, but Herr Einstein was apparently unhappy with the "Theory of Relativity" label for his own theory, springing from his famous reference-free paper of September 1905; so, you are in august company. Regardless, as an American of a certain age, trained in Statistics, the social sciences, and questionnaire construction, I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports. Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable. They have a window on the wider world, certainly as to the continental United States, through the mass media, and what they see makes the case look exponentially worse, to them, than the sobering reality. They see Blacks represented as if they were close to a third of the population, when they are barely over one-eighth. They see Asians and Jews grossly over-represented. They see more and more Hispanics, in recent years, but the constant news-media drumbeat that Hispanic numbers are surging, and that they are the most important political constituency in the country now, makes Hispanics' general under-representation in commercials, television shows, and films, which drive perceptions of the number of other racial and ethnic minorities, almost beside the point.

    I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports.

    Here is a figure that ought to be published. We are now approaching the point, if we haven’t already exceeded it, where the USA has received more non-Europeans over the course of the past four centuries than Europeans. Of course most people won’t understand this because Europeans still comprise the majority. But this is because Europeans have been here since 1607 having children, grandchildren, and so on. Thus, the approximately 45 million European immigrants who have come here from 1607 onward have grown to around 210 million people.

    Meanwhile since 1965 close to 50 million, overwhelmingly non-Europeans have come to the US. And that figure is growing each day. But since they have had much less time to reproduce, they are still fewer in number. I think if the MSM were to trumpet this fact it might at least counter the fairness argument that was one of the driving forces behind blowing the doors off immigration in the first place. People said it was unfair that Europeans got into the US, but others did not. Well, that argument can and should be put to bed. Of course it won’t because these numbers will never be discussed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Tiny, overcrowded Britain has taken in at least 5 million immigrants in the past decade.
    Roughly speaking the UK takes in as many in one year as the USA, the new world of opportunity and the vast, open frontier, took in a typical half decade.

    Madness.

    And the stupid bastard UK electorate STILL won't vote for UKIP.
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  282. athEIst says:

    4 billion.
    4 x10e9.
    4,000,000,000.
    4 thousand million.
    I hate to be redundant but try to get your head around.

    4 BILLION!

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  283. Numinous says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "Numinous says:

    Lastly, there is some sound “logic” for gradually assimilating all the populations of the world into one world race and culture, yet keeping the nuclear or small extended family; it just might rid the world of conflict and war, ensure a broad acceptance of humanitarian values, and help humanity focus on advancing scientific knowledge."

    Yes, if only the different groups of the world could be welded into one and be as close in shared culture and outlook as were Tutsi and Hutu or Serb, Croat, and Bosnian, everything would be peachy.

    You are a deluded, foolish dreamer.

    The key word that applies to assimilation is “gradually”. Grouping the various populations of the world today sound ludicrous to you now, as it well may be. But grouping together Picards, Gascons, and Bretons into a “French” category would have sounded ludicrous to someone in Charlemagne’s time (he of course was running an empire and didn’t care whether people got along as long as they bowed to him.) Grouping together Russians, Greeks, Portugese, and Swedes under the category of Europeans would have sounded ludicrous to someone in the late Roman era, but it turned into a reality by the end of the Middle Ages. And so on and so on. No one is saying that Hutus, Bosnians, and Norwegians if forced to stay in one neighborhood tomorrow will learn to get along immediately. But in 300 years time, why not?

    Most things that exist in the modern world are the end product of deluded foolish dreams that were dreamed up a long time ago. So I have no problem being a deluded, foolish dreamer.

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  284. Numinous says:
    @Art Deco
    The concept of a “nation” really only arose within the past 400 years or so.
    --
    Depends on what boundary you're putting around that concept. Joan of Arc lived and died 600 years ago.

    Depends on what boundary you’re putting around that concept. Joan of Arc lived and died 600 years ago.

    Sure. I was referring to the Westphalian nation, one that consists of fixed (though periodically changeable) boundaries with a centralized state that subjects all of its residents to abide by a certain code. These nations are intimately tied to the notion of property right, a concept that originated in late Middle Ages Europe, and has still not completely caught on throughout the world. Civilizational or cultural “nations” (where people are distinguished by their food and clothing habits and mannerisms, rather than what state they swear loyalty to) have of course existed for a much longer time, but they were never nations in the sense that we would recognize today.

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  285. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Numinous

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?
     
    That won't happen, barring serious natural/environmental/health catastrophes that affect almost the entire planet (like what's portrayed in the "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" movie.) Uncontrolled population growth might overstress the planet and bring about such catastrophes too, but I'm betting that once the immigrant wanderlust slows down to a trickle, and there aren't big prosperity gradients left in the world, population growth will naturally stabilize or go in reverse (as has been happening in all the rich countries since WWII.) I have not heard of any example where a population regressed in civilizational terms in the absence of a natural disaster. So unlike HBDers, I don't believe that mixing of genes by itself will inevitably result in a calamity for human civilization.

    Sorry, if you just consider the sheer numbers involved, not in the least in Africa and the Indian subcontinent, the enormous wealth gap that exists and how this unlikely to close significantly – and most importantly the acquiescence and agreement of the western political class to massive, uncontrolled third world immigration, and how this political acceptance will not change, despite the popularity of nationalist parties, then it is fairly certain that the mass influx of the third world into Europe will only accelerate in the future.

    Read More
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  286. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @iSteveFan

    I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports.
     
    Here is a figure that ought to be published. We are now approaching the point, if we haven't already exceeded it, where the USA has received more non-Europeans over the course of the past four centuries than Europeans. Of course most people won't understand this because Europeans still comprise the majority. But this is because Europeans have been here since 1607 having children, grandchildren, and so on. Thus, the approximately 45 million European immigrants who have come here from 1607 onward have grown to around 210 million people.

    Meanwhile since 1965 close to 50 million, overwhelmingly non-Europeans have come to the US. And that figure is growing each day. But since they have had much less time to reproduce, they are still fewer in number. I think if the MSM were to trumpet this fact it might at least counter the fairness argument that was one of the driving forces behind blowing the doors off immigration in the first place. People said it was unfair that Europeans got into the US, but others did not. Well, that argument can and should be put to bed. Of course it won't because these numbers will never be discussed.

    Tiny, overcrowded Britain has taken in at least 5 million immigrants in the past decade.
    Roughly speaking the UK takes in as many in one year as the USA, the new world of opportunity and the vast, open frontier, took in a typical half decade.

    Madness.

    And the stupid bastard UK electorate STILL won’t vote for UKIP.

    Read More
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  287. @Anonymous
    Alas, nothing has stopped them in the past, and even this horror show won't stop them in the future.
    You must remember that in only a few short years, or perhaps even now, as it happens, the 'ethnic vote' will be big enough to decide elections in much of western Europe. For example, it might well be that the Conservative Party never manages to achieve a Westminster majority again.

    You’re right in that they will never change their minds, but they will become more isolated in their opinions. That will have an effect.

    Re. the ethnic vote: many Asians won’t be keen on the prospect of black Africans migrating en masse to the UK. But admittedly this won’t manifest itself in electoral terms.

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  288. @D. K.
    Sorry, but Herr Einstein was apparently unhappy with the "Theory of Relativity" label for his own theory, springing from his famous reference-free paper of September 1905; so, you are in august company. Regardless, as an American of a certain age, trained in Statistics, the social sciences, and questionnaire construction, I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports. Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable. They have a window on the wider world, certainly as to the continental United States, through the mass media, and what they see makes the case look exponentially worse, to them, than the sobering reality. They see Blacks represented as if they were close to a third of the population, when they are barely over one-eighth. They see Asians and Jews grossly over-represented. They see more and more Hispanics, in recent years, but the constant news-media drumbeat that Hispanic numbers are surging, and that they are the most important political constituency in the country now, makes Hispanics' general under-representation in commercials, television shows, and films, which drive perceptions of the number of other racial and ethnic minorities, almost beside the point.

    I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports.

    You can play the expertise card all you like, but I’m sorry I don’t believe there is any way at all you can “assure” me the average American understands precisely what that figures imports because there is no established reference fact against which to judge his opinion. Or are you going to pretend that what 1.5 million immigrants imports has somehow been scientifically established – like the force of gravity on the surface of the earth, say, such that a person could guess more closely or less closely the actual figure?

    Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable.

    I suppose it would be laughable if I claimed that the interviewee asks the interviewer to wait a moment while he makes a visor with his hand and peers up the street, turns around and peers down the street, and then tells the interviewer with a smile and a nod that he thinks the immigration rate is “about right” and bids him a cheerio.

    In reality, what I said was he bases his estimation of what immigration means on places he has lived and visited, which have given him a sense of his country’s demographic balance. But yes, I should have included all possible sources of demographic-related belief-formation, but what they all come down to is that person having a set of ideas and feelings about the demographic balance and that these ideas and feelings influence the answer he gives.

    What would you have us believe? That he whips out his ipad and runs a few quick demographic simulations before screwing his lips together, nodding slowly and studiously opining that “it’s…about right…I’d say”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @D. K.
    You are welcome to believe whatever nonsense your little heart desires. The average American-- and even most subaverage ones-- understand that adding one and a half million immigrants per year is like adding a top-ten American city, every year, with more to come, thereafter, through native-born offspring of immigrants, at a far-higher rate than for native stock. He or she also knows what the country is like simply from watching television-- and, again, this actually exacerbates the problem, because what he or she sees is the PC-addled multiculturalism of the elites, offset by the news, on television and on line, through which he or she knows that other races do not act and think like White European Christians. He or she knows which race commits most of the murders and robberies, and which pseudo-race does most of the drunk-driving and child-molestation. My little sister, a teacher, is married to a farmer. They live in rural Indiana. I can assure you that, despite his country drawl, he knows very well what is going on in our country; we talk about it at length at every family gathering, and he has a more knowledgable and nuanced view of the world than my sister, who seems to view the world only through union propaganda coming out of New York!
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  289. @Southfarthing
    Yes, my comments are only regarding Jews who are playing on the team of the West, not some separate team.

    For my grandparents on my Ashkenazi side, 100% of their great-grandchildren have mixed Christian-Jewish ancestry and 0% of them identify as Jews in any meaningful way. The Ashkenazi side of my family is more conservative than the WASP side of my family... more like John Milius than Steven Spielberg.

    The only data we have to test how many other Jews are oriented toward assimilation is that 71% of non-Orthodox Jews marry non-Jews. That's consistent with the Jews I know, and with famous Jews, who generally marry non-Jews.

    The numbers are that Jewish-Americans are clearly
    more against immigration than for it. Good. Let the people of Richard Feynman and Harrison Ford, and everybody who likes them be on our side. I can't link my influential friends to these sites as long as we demonize Jews.

    Oh dear me, you “can’t link” your “influential friends” to Steve Sailer because his commenters – the majority of whom are part or wholly Jewish – demonize Jews. I’m stricken.

    Jews generally marry non-Jews – so they aren’t Jewish, am I correctly interpreting your hasbara? Let’s see – Michael Douglas – mother not Jewish – so by your definition he isn’t – married Catherine Zeta Jones, so his children – 75% European, couldn’t possibly be Jewish. Except his son had a bar mitzvah and felt bullied when he wore his Jewish star in Europe.

    And every last purportedly conservative and/or semi-Jewish commenter somehow feels impelled to note his Jewish origins in his pseudonym.

    I could go on . . . and on . . . but your sort of comment and mindset and ethnicity is impervious to logic.

    As an earlier commenter noted, the root of the problem – in every Western country – is that Jews believe they have the right to live anywhere and be accepted in every country as both fully Jewish and fully American/Canadian/Australian/French/Swedish/Irish. And in every such country, they are leading the way in calling for hate speech legislation and more immigration. Except, of course, for your cherry-picked personal anecdotes of how “most” Jews oppose immigration.

    You really do think the locals are irredeemably stupid, don’t you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Southfarthing
    I was raised Christian and my ancestors can be traced back to the Mayflower and to living in Europe since the Stone Age, so normal people would find the implication that I'm not a White American to be strange.

    The culture here of being hostile toward people who agree with us is why my White friends and colleagues in the real world would be unhappy if they knew I spent time here. We should care about that. Like many people here, I'm attracted to this site because I'm naturally big on loyalty and duty, so I'm not sure why this site is run that way.

    I agree with Steve Sailer that people like Richard Feynman and Twinkie should be able to join his causes... as equals.
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  290. Lagertha says:
    @Trayvon Zimmerman

    Once again, a sage old man told me that one day, the poor of the world would overwhelm the wealthier countries (global climate change/lack of water or not) and it would be impossible to just ship people back to their homelands.
     
    Yes, this very thing was predicted back in the 1970s by the French writer Jean Raspail, in his novel The Camp of the Saints.

    But you seem to be very confused. You're concerned that wealthy nations are going to drown in a deluge of immigrants from poor nations, but at the same time you find it "unsettling" that many European countries have growing movements in opposition to taking in all these immigrants.

    There is an unsettling amount of fervor and groups growing in Europe that are anti-immigrant.
     

    No, I am not confused at all. I understand the basis of the numerous parties in the Nordic countries. I also understand the rise of the nationalist parties. I predicted the rise of these parties, and, the growth of the neo-Nazi groups after 9/11 – by that time, people all over Europe were already grumbling about the Muslims in their countries…because of their behavior, not because they were there.

    However, some Muslims (the Kurds, for instance) integrated fairly well; many Bosnians went back home after things settled down – Bosnia, and its people, being one of the most clannish societies I believe. And, very blood-thirsty and full of revenge…as much as the Serbs.

    My feelings are irrelevant because I don’t know a palatable solution a government in the “western world” would come up with to prevent massive amounts of poor, unskilled people to arrive in a country so remote culturally to them. USA & Europe will never allow streets to be filled with beggars or have people starving to death on the streets. And, building some sort of concentration camps/internment camps are never gonna happen.

    Most people in the states do not want to live in Alaska because of the cold and miserable climate, short summer, hard living if you are not wealthy, and few job prospects. The Nordic countries are similar, even if Alaska feels more mid 20th century. The Scandinavian countries (Norway excepted) have higher unemployment than the US….and no robust “Wall Street” industry, a SV, entertainment juggernaut like Hollywood/Sports TV. There are not enough entrepreneurs in Europe. Old industrial private companies were sold or pushed out of business decades ago. There are not enough factory jobs, stoop labor jobs, agricultural jobs (duh) in the Nordic countries. Cost of living is high, and northern Europeans are extremely frugal – they are poor consumers of frivolous and luxury goods. Taxes are twice as much as in the USA for an average earner. And, the taxes that uphold the social welfare programs are the heart of the resentment.

    So, if someone says they don’t want migrants, or they feel migrants from Africa and Asia could be absorbed and it’s the “right thing to do,” it doesn’t matter. Only island nations like Australia, NZ, or Iceland can sweep rickety boats from their coasts and take them back without the Associated Press, or the world noticing or witnessing it.

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  291. Lagertha says:
    @Marty
    You're a millenial, right? You're the first person I've ever seen who carries over the "like" filler of her speech into her writing.

    Ha, Haa! hardly a Millenial. And, what does “the first person I’ve ever seen,” mean since I don’t know who you are? It took me decades to cut the F word from my everyday speech and, obviously, I still use “like” too much. I coached soccer for decades, so I was “like” around too many Millenials and Gen Z kids…but I only used the F word around my friends…not as much as I did in the 80′s.

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  292. Sword says:

    Swede here.

    There is a lot of despair in these comments, but some of it is unfounded. Americans who hear about the Nordic countries on these topics only hear the PC stuff that is proffered in Nordic MSM, or the likewise PC-tainted stuff reported by US. journalists who actually go to a Nordic country.

    What you are not privy to are the stuff that ordinary Nordics (note that I did not write “citizens”) say to each other, or what is written in immigration-restrictionist websites written in Nordic countries. The latter is a pity, since google translate often gives quite good renditions.

    What we say, and what is written in those blogs, is often quite different than what the PC journalists dictate to us. The vacillate between trying to ignore us away, and scold us into submission. Neither is working, according to the Gallups – the Swedish immigration restrictionist party shows an inexorable rise. This leads to the articles dealing with the quarterly polls becoming even more extreme examples of burying the lede, but so what.

    The Nordic countries actually have one thing that USA lacks, and is to our benefit: proportional election systems. In short, this means that once a party passes a low threshold (4% here) they will get as many parliamentary seats as their vote numbers dictate. There is no reason for a voter to worry that his vote will be wasted in our system. You might worry that they would up that cutoff percentage, but the problem with that approach is that it would also kill off a lot of “respectable” parties.

    Do not despair; the picture that you see is bleaker than the one we see. Take heart, all is not yet lost.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    Terrific heartening comment Sword ... though from what i see from Swedes--who from the outside almost seem to have adopted PC piety as a national character trait--not sure your nation will wake up will be in time.

    Beware that if you're successful, you'll then have to deal with the flood of Americans seeking asylum as their nation degenerates into a 3rd world dystopia.

    I realize me--my children--won't be allowed in, but i'll sure feel better and die happy if some white nations recover their mojo--their manliness--and survive.
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  293. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver

    I can assure you that even the average American, when made aware of the actual ballpark figure for the annual immigration (legal and illegal, combined) to the United States, can appreciate the magnitude of what that figure imports.
     
    You can play the expertise card all you like, but I'm sorry I don't believe there is any way at all you can "assure" me the average American understands precisely what that figures imports because there is no established reference fact against which to judge his opinion. Or are you going to pretend that what 1.5 million immigrants imports has somehow been scientifically established - like the force of gravity on the surface of the earth, say, such that a person could guess more closely or less closely the actual figure?

    Your notion that conservative White Republicans in Middle America must look around, notice that their neck of the woods still is largely untouched by the Third World immigration tsunami of the past half-century, and decide that another million and a half Third Worlders per year, every year, is not going to effect their country negatively, any time soon, and thus answer a pollster accordingly, is laughable.
     
    I suppose it would be laughable if I claimed that the interviewee asks the interviewer to wait a moment while he makes a visor with his hand and peers up the street, turns around and peers down the street, and then tells the interviewer with a smile and a nod that he thinks the immigration rate is "about right" and bids him a cheerio.

    In reality, what I said was he bases his estimation of what immigration means on places he has lived and visited, which have given him a sense of his country's demographic balance. But yes, I should have included all possible sources of demographic-related belief-formation, but what they all come down to is that person having a set of ideas and feelings about the demographic balance and that these ideas and feelings influence the answer he gives.

    What would you have us believe? That he whips out his ipad and runs a few quick demographic simulations before screwing his lips together, nodding slowly and studiously opining that "it's...about right...I'd say"?

    You are welcome to believe whatever nonsense your little heart desires. The average American– and even most subaverage ones– understand that adding one and a half million immigrants per year is like adding a top-ten American city, every year, with more to come, thereafter, through native-born offspring of immigrants, at a far-higher rate than for native stock. He or she also knows what the country is like simply from watching television– and, again, this actually exacerbates the problem, because what he or she sees is the PC-addled multiculturalism of the elites, offset by the news, on television and on line, through which he or she knows that other races do not act and think like White European Christians. He or she knows which race commits most of the murders and robberies, and which pseudo-race does most of the drunk-driving and child-molestation. My little sister, a teacher, is married to a farmer. They live in rural Indiana. I can assure you that, despite his country drawl, he knows very well what is going on in our country; we talk about it at length at every family gathering, and he has a more knowledgable and nuanced view of the world than my sister, who seems to view the world only through union propaganda coming out of New York!

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    In that case why do you consider "crazy" my contention that "too high" is a decent proxy for "halt immigration"? In your view, is it more likely that people who are aware of what 1.5 million immigrants implies blame the rate of immigration for causing those effects or the fact of immigration for causing those effects?

    They live in rural Indiana. I can assure you that, despite his country drawl, he knows very well what is going on in our country; we talk about it at length at every family gathering
     
    And what does this fellow tell you? Does he blame the rate of immigration for those effects? Does he say, "I'm tellin' you, if only the rate of immigration had been lower all of this could have been avoided"?
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  294. @Anonymous

    Your apologia for the Jews in this regard is most assuredly not based on the data. and it is completely at odds with biological theory and Jewish history.
     
    Which biological theory are you referring to?

    Which biological theory are you referring to?

    Not “which”; “which part of”.

    The part that says that living things generally pursue their self-interest, absent manipulation by other living things. It’s theoretically unsound to posit that the White race devised and deployed anti-White ideologies sua sponte.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Biology is just the general study of life. It includes various theories, not just a single biological theory. Are you referring to group selection theory?

    Whether or not something is theoretically unsound depends on the theory you hold. For some biological theories, for example, positing that a taxonomic classification like a race, species, sub-species, etc. does anything would be theoretically unsound.
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  295. ABN says:
    @silviosilver

    Yeah, if you think Ellis Island schmaltz is a self-serving retcon, just wait until we have Grandpa-Was-Living-In-the-Shadows schmaltz.
     
    Nah, Latinos don't have the long-lived historical consciousness of Jews. At most their memory of grandpa will be something like "Yeah, I think it was kinda hard back then, but whatever." And then, too, latinos are generally just happy to get away with the daylight robbery they're knowingly engaging in. They lack the burning conviction that no matter what actions they have undertaken it's the rest of the world that has wronged them (and must pay) that is central to Jewish identity.

    Perhaps, but what you’ve said about Hispanic attitudes might also have applied to blacks under ideal circumstances. Of course, it doesn’t apply to blacks, because the present climate encourages black resentment of whites. Why should it be any different with Hispanics? If Rio Grande schmaltz is as useful to the liberal elite of tomorrow as Ellis Island schmaltz and Infinity Years a Slave are to the liberal elite of today, we’ll have no shortage of it.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Well that's true. But I was thinking of what they themselves might spontaneously generate. Fed from the outside, yes, I think there's a very good chance their anti-white resentment could eventually ramp up to a whole new level.
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  296. D. K. says:
    @Numinous

    Sort of like Africa, 75,000 years ago, eh?
     
    That won't happen, barring serious natural/environmental/health catastrophes that affect almost the entire planet (like what's portrayed in the "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" movie.) Uncontrolled population growth might overstress the planet and bring about such catastrophes too, but I'm betting that once the immigrant wanderlust slows down to a trickle, and there aren't big prosperity gradients left in the world, population growth will naturally stabilize or go in reverse (as has been happening in all the rich countries since WWII.) I have not heard of any example where a population regressed in civilizational terms in the absence of a natural disaster. So unlike HBDers, I don't believe that mixing of genes by itself will inevitably result in a calamity for human civilization.

    Sorry, Comrade Numinous, but you missed my point completely. Feel free and welcome, however, to prove your Utopian bona fides, by breeding with a Kalahari Bushman’s daughter, with an IQ of 60 or so.

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    • Replies: @Numinous
    Sorry, Comrade Numinous, but you missed my point completely. Feel free and welcome, however, to prove your Utopian bona fides, by breeding with a Kalahari Bushman’s daughter, with an IQ of 60 or so.

    Not sure if you are still reading this comments section, but I have always wondered why people who visit these sites call those who disagree with them as Marxists or "Comrade". I thought Marxism referred to a particular economic philosophy, one I am vehemently opposed to (in fact, most commenters here, and Sailer himself, would be well to my left on economic issues.) Now I really don't care about races and tribes like you all do; is Marxist meant to encompass such a universalist view? Then how is a Marxist different from a libertarian (which is sort of what I consider myself)?

    As for your facetious comment about breeding with low-IQ Bushmen, when did I ever suggest that? People ought to breed with whoever they get along with, and not to fulfil a particular social agenda. And really, if a Bushman were to even think about and attempt emigration to a white country, he/she would likely have a higher IQ than the average person in the destination country. In the US, pretty much every non-Hispanic immigrant (i.e., those who cannot walk into the US) has a higher IQ than the average native American.

    , @Truth

    Sorry, Comrade Numinous, but you missed my point completely. Feel free and welcome, however, to prove your Utopian bona fides, by breeding with a Kalahari Bushman’s daughter, with an IQ of 60 or so.
     
    Sheepskin, I think your straw man just caught fire.
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  297. @ABN
    Perhaps, but what you've said about Hispanic attitudes might also have applied to blacks under ideal circumstances. Of course, it doesn't apply to blacks, because the present climate encourages black resentment of whites. Why should it be any different with Hispanics? If Rio Grande schmaltz is as useful to the liberal elite of tomorrow as Ellis Island schmaltz and Infinity Years a Slave are to the liberal elite of today, we'll have no shortage of it.

    Well that’s true. But I was thinking of what they themselves might spontaneously generate. Fed from the outside, yes, I think there’s a very good chance their anti-white resentment could eventually ramp up to a whole new level.

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  298. @D. K.
    You are welcome to believe whatever nonsense your little heart desires. The average American-- and even most subaverage ones-- understand that adding one and a half million immigrants per year is like adding a top-ten American city, every year, with more to come, thereafter, through native-born offspring of immigrants, at a far-higher rate than for native stock. He or she also knows what the country is like simply from watching television-- and, again, this actually exacerbates the problem, because what he or she sees is the PC-addled multiculturalism of the elites, offset by the news, on television and on line, through which he or she knows that other races do not act and think like White European Christians. He or she knows which race commits most of the murders and robberies, and which pseudo-race does most of the drunk-driving and child-molestation. My little sister, a teacher, is married to a farmer. They live in rural Indiana. I can assure you that, despite his country drawl, he knows very well what is going on in our country; we talk about it at length at every family gathering, and he has a more knowledgable and nuanced view of the world than my sister, who seems to view the world only through union propaganda coming out of New York!

    In that case why do you consider “crazy” my contention that “too high” is a decent proxy for “halt immigration”? In your view, is it more likely that people who are aware of what 1.5 million immigrants implies blame the rate of immigration for causing those effects or the fact of immigration for causing those effects?

    They live in rural Indiana. I can assure you that, despite his country drawl, he knows very well what is going on in our country; we talk about it at length at every family gathering

    And what does this fellow tell you? Does he blame the rate of immigration for those effects? Does he say, “I’m tellin’ you, if only the rate of immigration had been lower all of this could have been avoided”?

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    • Replies: @D. K.
    I consider it crazy because (a) they were asked a specific question, using a specific figure, and (b) that specific figure-- 1.5 million immigrants per year-- is a very far cry from zero.

    My brother-in-law has never suggested to me that immigration to the United States should be permanently ended-- which is my own stated position. I cannot think of anyone whom I know-- whether left, right or center, politically-- who shares my belief that mass immigration, by its very nature, constitutes "genocide," according to the United Nations' own definition of that term.

    The actual annual quota for immigration to the United States is a minor fraction of the actual figure cited. That is not even primarily because of illegal immigration; it is primarily because of chain migration, which is not counted toward the explicit quota. Ending chain migration would do more to limit immigration to the United States than would stopping all illegal immigration. Doing both would do away with the vast majority of the current flow.

    Most Americans, except for co-ethnics and ideologues, want an end to illegal immigration. That alone would cut the cited immigration number by roughly a third. Many, if not most, also would like legal immigration reduced, at least temporarily, as it was for forty years, prior to the 1965 act, so that unemployment could be reduced, wages could rise, and assimilation could be given a chance (however outside) to work on the tens of millions of unassimilated immigrants (and their often unassimilated offspring) currently among us.

    There has never been a time when mass immigration has been outlawed in the United States. It is unlikely to happen in my lifetime, or even in the lifetimes of my nephews and nieces-- unless the Union dissolves, and the surviving states protect themselves from the other states, by closing their respective borders. Again, I am the only one that I know personally who favors ending mass immigration, and doing so permanently.

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  299. @pseudonymic handle
    Oh dear me, you "can't link" your "influential friends" to Steve Sailer because his commenters - the majority of whom are part or wholly Jewish - demonize Jews. I'm stricken.

    Jews generally marry non-Jews - so they aren't Jewish, am I correctly interpreting your hasbara? Let's see - Michael Douglas - mother not Jewish - so by your definition he isn't - married Catherine Zeta Jones, so his children - 75% European, couldn't possibly be Jewish. Except his son had a bar mitzvah and felt bullied when he wore his Jewish star in Europe.

    And every last purportedly conservative and/or semi-Jewish commenter somehow feels impelled to note his Jewish origins in his pseudonym.

    I could go on . . . and on . . . but your sort of comment and mindset and ethnicity is impervious to logic.

    As an earlier commenter noted, the root of the problem - in every Western country - is that Jews believe they have the right to live anywhere and be accepted in every country as both fully Jewish and fully American/Canadian/Australian/French/Swedish/Irish. And in every such country, they are leading the way in calling for hate speech legislation and more immigration. Except, of course, for your cherry-picked personal anecdotes of how "most" Jews oppose immigration.

    You really do think the locals are irredeemably stupid, don't you?

    I was raised Christian and my ancestors can be traced back to the Mayflower and to living in Europe since the Stone Age, so normal people would find the implication that I’m not a White American to be strange.

    The culture here of being hostile toward people who agree with us is why my White friends and colleagues in the real world would be unhappy if they knew I spent time here. We should care about that. Like many people here, I’m attracted to this site because I’m naturally big on loyalty and duty, so I’m not sure why this site is run that way.

    I agree with Steve Sailer that people like Richard Feynman and Twinkie should be able to join his causes… as equals.

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  300. @Mr. Anon
    "Southfarthing says:

    @D. K.

    The poll was on all immigration, not just illegal immigration. View the question directly here.

    Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure."

    Great. It would be nice if they voted the same way they answer polls.

    >>”Jews responded: 50% too high, 5% too low, 22% just right, 23% not sure.”

    Great. It would be nice if they voted the same way they answer polls.

    Yeah, and the way to accomplish that is to welcome like-minded Jews to our side, just as we welcome guests to our dinner table.

    Jews’ incentives are highly aligned against uncontrolled immigration, so it shouldn’t be hard for smart people to convince them.

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  301. D. K. says:
    @silviosilver
    In that case why do you consider "crazy" my contention that "too high" is a decent proxy for "halt immigration"? In your view, is it more likely that people who are aware of what 1.5 million immigrants implies blame the rate of immigration for causing those effects or the fact of immigration for causing those effects?

    They live in rural Indiana. I can assure you that, despite his country drawl, he knows very well what is going on in our country; we talk about it at length at every family gathering
     
    And what does this fellow tell you? Does he blame the rate of immigration for those effects? Does he say, "I'm tellin' you, if only the rate of immigration had been lower all of this could have been avoided"?

    I consider it crazy because (a) they were asked a specific question, using a specific figure, and (b) that specific figure– 1.5 million immigrants per year– is a very far cry from zero.

    My brother-in-law has never suggested to me that immigration to the United States should be permanently ended– which is my own stated position. I cannot think of anyone whom I know– whether left, right or center, politically– who shares my belief that mass immigration, by its very nature, constitutes “genocide,” according to the United Nations’ own definition of that term.

    The actual annual quota for immigration to the United States is a minor fraction of the actual figure cited. That is not even primarily because of illegal immigration; it is primarily because of chain migration, which is not counted toward the explicit quota. Ending chain migration would do more to limit immigration to the United States than would stopping all illegal immigration. Doing both would do away with the vast majority of the current flow.

    Most Americans, except for co-ethnics and ideologues, want an end to illegal immigration. That alone would cut the cited immigration number by roughly a third. Many, if not most, also would like legal immigration reduced, at least temporarily, as it was for forty years, prior to the 1965 act, so that unemployment could be reduced, wages could rise, and assimilation could be given a chance (however outside) to work on the tens of millions of unassimilated immigrants (and their often unassimilated offspring) currently among us.

    There has never been a time when mass immigration has been outlawed in the United States. It is unlikely to happen in my lifetime, or even in the lifetimes of my nephews and nieces– unless the Union dissolves, and the surviving states protect themselves from the other states, by closing their respective borders. Again, I am the only one that I know personally who favors ending mass immigration, and doing so permanently.

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    • Replies: @JSM
    I cannot think of anyone whom I know– whether left, right or center, politically– who shares my belief that mass immigration, by its very nature, constitutes “genocide,” according to the United Nations’ own definition of that term.


    Some of my crazy leftwing-nut relatives are g...r...a...d...u...a...l...l...y coming around. It's taken me almost ten years, but if MY brother-in-law, the quintessential libtard, is beginning to consider the possibility of tiptoeing up to the idea of giving the tiniest percentage of brain matter over to pondering the issue, there's hope YET!