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EU Denounces Hungary & Bulgaria for Negotiating with Israel to Buy Border Fences
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From Reuters‘ today:

Exclusive: Migrant crisis spurs European interest in Israeli border barriers

JERUSALEM | BY DAN WILLIAMS

Faced with a surge in migration from the Middle East and North Africa, two European countries are exploring the possibility of erecting towering steel security fences along parts of their borders, similar to Israel’s barrier with Egypt.

Hungary and Bulgaria have made preliminary inquiries about buying the Israeli-designed fences, according to an Israeli business source who declined to be named due to the sensitivity of the discussions.

Both EU countries are beefing up their borders to deter migrants, many of them refugees from wars, who are seeking to use them as gateways to richer countries further north and west, particularly Germany.

But moves to throw up such barriers – which could be around 5-6 meters (15-20 feet) high, topped with razor wire and equipped with cameras and motion sensors – would evoke memories of Cold War-era divisions in Europe and exasperate EU officials who say they would not help to solve the crisis.

Bulgarian and Hungarian officials indicated that such discussions about security fences were taking place.

“I presume that such is the case because the cooperation between the (Israeli and Bulgarian) ministries of internal affairs and security is quite intensive,” said Rayko Pepelanov, Bulgaria’s deputy ambassador in Israel. …

The Israeli source said any deals remained some way off, pointing to budget constraints and the political sensitivity in the European Union over erecting fences to control the flow of migrants and refugees from Syria, Iraq, Libya and elsewhere.

“(European countries) all want solutions and see the relevance of our technologies,” the source said. “But they also need EU support and this has not been forthcoming.”

The European Commission, the EU executive, has said it opposes the construction of fences but accepts it is up to each nation to decide how it protects its borders.

“Fences … do not send the right message, particularly to our neighbors,” said spokeswoman Mina Andreeva.

DOWN TO THE WIRE

The type of fence the countries have expressed interest in is the one Israel has constructed along its 230 km (143-mile) border with Egypt, rather than the steel-and-concrete barrier that separates the West Bank from Israel and East Jerusalem.

The Egyptian fence was built over three years and completed in 2013, with the aim of stopping an influx of migrants from Africa and guarding against raids by Islamist insurgents.

The fence cost the Israeli government around $380 million. A similar-style barrier is likely to cost foreign customers about 15 percent more – up to $1.9 million per km, according to industry sources, although hills, forests and other difficult European topography could drive the price higher.

Erecting such barriers would represent a significant step-up in security for Hungary and Bulgaria.

The former is already completing a 3.5-metre-high fence along its border with Serbia, while the latter has erected a fence about 3 meters high on its Turkish border. But the Israeli-designed barriers, as well as being taller, would be more heavily fortified and have more sophisticated electronic defense.

Hungary has emerged as a flashpoint in the crisis, as the primary entry point for those traveling overland across the Balkans. Its right-wing government is among the continent’s most outspoken voices against allowing mass immigration.

But EU officials have been critical of Budapest, with some pointing out the irony of the country that first opened the Iron Curtain frontier with Austria in 1989, before the Berlin Wall came down, taking the lead in erecting new barriers.

Uh, you know, there’s a slight difference between a dictatorship locking its subjects in and a democracy protecting its citizens by locking foreign mobs out …

Frontex, the EU agency responsible for border management, is opposed to fences and has made clear the European Union will not help member states finance them.

“When you talk about the management of migratory flows, the fence itself is not the solution, just as border control is not the panacea for migration flows,” said spokeswoman Izabella Cooper. “You have to stabilize the countries of origin from which the refugees flee.”

In other words, All We Have to Do Is to Solve the Sunni-Shi’ite dispute. Who needs an Israeli-style border fence when the great and the good of the EU will have, no doubt, solved this 1400 year old conflict real soon now? So, nothing should be done to protect the peoples of Europe in the mean time, because EU diplomats are this close to getting sorted out all those unfortunate misunderstandings between Sunnis and Shi’ites going back to Ali’s assassination in 661 A.D.

 
    []
  1. inertial says:

    Why would Arabs want to move to the Jewish state? Isn’t Israel horrible, oppressive, apartheid state that genocides Palestinians? Why would Syrians or Yemenis subject themselves to that?

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  2. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If fences offend them, how about digging a moat around the country… And sharks with frickin’ laser beams

    Read More
  3. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    Seriously… what is EU’s political and moral logic?

    If 300 million Chinese, 300 million Indians, and 300 million Africans wanna come to Europe, they should have the ‘right’?

    It would seem that way from the nonsense we hear.

    Using this logic, would EU agree that if a 100 million Americans just want to move to Indonesia, they should have the right to do so?

    Or, is the EU logic all about poverty and neediness? Since refugees are poor and desperate, they are deserving of compassion. So, rich peoples don’t have the right to force themselves into poor nations since they got the goodies in rich nations, but poor peoples have the right to force themselves into rich nations since they don’t got nuttin’.
    But given that poor people far outnumber the rich in the First World, this will lead to national suicide. Imagine if all the poor Muslims were allowed to move to Israel. Suppose if 50 million poor Africans were allowed to enter Austria.

    I mean it’s a no brainer.

    Read More
  4. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    “would evoke memories of Cold War-era divisions in Europe and exasperate EU officials who say they would not help to solve the crisis.”

    Well, thank Todd for that because the way things are going, Europe would have been better off if all of it fell under Soviet occupation that what is happening now. Under Soviet rule, all of Europe would have been less developed and economically backward but it would have been white and proud.

    Notice that the most patriotic nations in Europe are the former communist ones. Even among Germans, those in the East are better than the cucks of the West.

    Read More
  5. Something tells me one of the least bought books this month in Europe is “The Open Society and Its Enemies” by Karl Popper. Much of that post war conceit like the 1951 Refugee Treaty is going to go up in smoke very soon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rod1963
    Herr Popper was part of the Jewish culture of critique = IOW slamming goy thinkers and promoting his own agit-prop.
  6. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    “In other words, All We Have to Do Is to Solve the Sunni-Shi’ite dispute.”

    The West did a great job by aiding Sunni Hussein against Shias, then aiding Shias against Hussein, and then aiding Sunni jihadists against Iraqi Shia government, and etc.

    If the West had left those nations alone, they’d be ruled by autocrats and there would be peace.

    Just look at Saudi Arabia. Hardly a socially just place. But there is stability cuz the Royal family is allowed a stern hand to keep things under control.

    Now, what would happen to Saudi Arabia if US and NATO were to bomb the Royal Family, drive them out of power, and then allow Shia minority around oil wells to rise up with guns? Saudi Arabia would also turn into Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

    Every diverse nation is unstable. We saw this in Yugoslavia. Once the central government lost power, the place began to rip apart. And US encouraged it to play divide-and-rule. 100,000s died, and that happened in Europe.
    Russians understood the problem of diversity and swallowed their pride and decided to dissolve the Soviet Union and much of the Muslim and non-Russian states go off on their own.

    Turkey could also blow up if the West were to topple the regime in Ankarak. Turkish Kurds who make up 15% to 20% of the population, will seek independence, and there will be serious civil war.
    We saw what happened to Ukraine once the West meddled and toppled the government.

    There are deep-seated differences between Shias and Sunnies, but recent problems have less to do with Arab history than Western policy of meddling in select countries.
    The West should go for the Saudi Policy, i.e. a policy where the West treats every Middle Eastern nation like it treats Saudi Arabia. Let the ruling government do whatever it needs to maintain control and just do business.
    Libya was at peace before US and EU blew that place up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "...what would happen to Saudi Arabia if US and NATO were to bomb the Royal Family, drive them out of power, and then allow Shia minority around oil wells to rise up with guns?"

    Sounds good, but finish the fence first.
  7. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/czech-police-haul-migrants-off-trains-to-germany-and-write-numbers-on-their-arms-in-ink-10482651.html

    Finally some sense.

    Bring back the old communist secret police if they must.

    West won the Cold War to lose the Cuckold War?

    Shame.

    At least save Eastern Europe. They should build new walls to keep decadent Westerners and foreign invaders out.

    Iron Dam. If Israel has the Iron Dome, why not the Iron Dam for Europe.

    Read More
  8. Kyle a says:

    Didn’t realize them Hebrews were such sufficient fence builders. Wouldn’t of guessed it with their position about fences in the U.S.

    Read More
  9. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    When you talk about the management of migratory flows, the fence itself is not the solution, just as border control is not the panacea for migration flows,” said spokeswoman Izabella Cooper.

    (((Izabella Cooper)))

    Read More
    • Replies: @Salty
    Yeah. What the hell is going on with that? Not 'Isabel' (a beautiful Spanish name) or 'Isabella' a workable hybrid but a straight up f- you faux mestizo mismash. She sounds like a poorly drawn Sci-Fi character. All the money in my pocket says that's not the first name on her birth certificate.
  10. Matra says:

    OT but somewhat related the identity of the anti-immigration blogger the Swedish Surveyor has been exposed by a Bonnier press newspaper.

    Read More
  11. Wilkey says:

    “But moves to throw up such barriers…would evoke memories of Cold War-era divisions in Europe and exasperate EU officials who say they would not help to solve the crisis.”

    It’s funny how “leaders” who clearly have no goddamned idea how to solve the crisis are all so very sure which proposed solutions won’t work. It’s very similar to the “leaders” here in the US who claim they want to stop illegal immigration but, ya know, building a fence “won’t work,” and denying them drivers licenses “won’t work,” and denying them government benefits and public education “won’t work,” and fining their employers “won’t work.”

    I was once engaged in a debate over this with a friend/fairly successful blogger who took the open borders position without honestly, openly admitting as such. I asked him what solutions to securing the border he thought were both workabke and acceptable. He never responded. That told me all I needed to know.

    These politicians, in America or Europe, needed to be asked specifics. What is your plan, point by point, for securing the border? What’s the maximum number of immigrants and refugees we should accept in a given year? Will “refugees” be expected to return home when it’s safe, or will they be here forever.

    You can only debate them when they provide specifics – and that is why they avoid specifics.

    Read More
  12. Priss Factor [AKA "skiapolemistis"] says:

    LOL

    Geez, if guys need a women’s college to tell them how to be men, it’s like tigers taught to subsist on celery.

    http://www.mrctv.org/blog/vanderbilt-womens-center-lecture-men-healthy-masculinities#.5d0bmy:XUBJ

    Read More
  13. Clyde says:

    The Saudis also build excellent border fences that Hungary and Bulgaria might be interested in buying.

    Read More
  14. Salty says:
    @Anonymous
    When you talk about the management of migratory flows, the fence itself is not the solution, just as border control is not the panacea for migration flows,” said spokeswoman Izabella Cooper.

    (((Izabella Cooper)))

    Yeah. What the hell is going on with that? Not ‘Isabel’ (a beautiful Spanish name) or ‘Isabella’ a workable hybrid but a straight up f- you faux mestizo mismash. She sounds like a poorly drawn Sci-Fi character. All the money in my pocket says that’s not the first name on her birth certificate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Actually, Izabella is the Hungarian version of Isabel. I wouldn't be surprised if she was Hungarian, married to an Englishman called Cooper.
    , @reiner Tor
    Apparently Izabella could also be Polish.
  15. Zimriel says: • Website

    The irony here: Ali wasn’t assassinated by Sunnis or even by Umayyads. He was assassinated by a weirdo terrorist from the “Kharijite” sect. Other weirdos in that sect tried to assassinate his rival Muawiya too but they failed.

    Read More
  16. rod1963 says:
    @Name Withheld
    Something tells me one of the least bought books this month in Europe is "The Open Society and Its Enemies" by Karl Popper. Much of that post war conceit like the 1951 Refugee Treaty is going to go up in smoke very soon.

    Herr Popper was part of the Jewish culture of critique = IOW slamming goy thinkers and promoting his own agit-prop.

    Read More
  17. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    EU Denounces Hungary & Bulgaria Negotiatint with Israel to Buy Border Fences

    I think you need to have a word with your proof-reader.

    Read More
  18. Lex Corvus says: • Website

    Uh, you know, there’s a slight difference between a dictatorship locking its subjects in and a democracy protecting its citizens by locking foreign mobs out…

    True, but careful not to fall into the ol’ “freedom & democracy” trap. Your fundamental point has nothing to do with dictatorship or democracy per se; the relevant distinction is keeping people in vs. keeping them out. If Switzerland, a democracy, built a wall to keep people in, that’d be bad; if Saudi Arabia, an absolute monarchy, built a wall to keep people out, that’d be good. Indeed, one of those countries did build a wall to keep people out—and it ain’t the democracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex Corvus
    Link update: Steve himself has noted who did build a wall to keep people out.
    , @CK
    Once you have a fence or a wall, the distinction of whether it is to keep you in or keep them out disappears. It does both simultaneously and equally well. All that is necessary is another Patriot Act, or an IRS interpretation of why you might want to exit.
  19. Svigor says:

    Why would Arabs want to move to the Jewish state? Isn’t Israel horrible, oppressive, apartheid state that genocides Palestinians? Why would Syrians or Yemenis subject themselves to that?

    No, Israel is a beacon of western democracy and civil rights, the only bla bla bla. Thus, it makes perfect sense for Arab refugees to want to go there. And it’s only natural that a beacon of western democracy and civil rights will welcome them…

    Of course, I kid; Muslim populations are a no-no because terror. Which only leaves Israel’s rejection of the rest of the (non-Jewish) world (even “cognitively elite” Chinese geniuses who would make Israel a paradise!) for the Jews to explain.

    Read More
  20. Lex Corvus says: • Website
    @Lex Corvus


    Uh, you know, there’s a slight difference between a dictatorship locking its subjects in and a democracy protecting its citizens by locking foreign mobs out…

     

    True, but careful not to fall into the ol' "freedom & democracy" trap. Your fundamental point has nothing to do with dictatorship or democracy per se; the relevant distinction is keeping people in vs. keeping them out. If Switzerland, a democracy, built a wall to keep people in, that'd be bad; if Saudi Arabia, an absolute monarchy, built a wall to keep people out, that'd be good. Indeed, one of those countries did build a wall to keep people out—and it ain't the democracy.

    Link update: Steve himself has noted who did build a wall to keep people out.

    Read More
  21. So at $1.9 million per Km and a southern border ~3000 Km that’s ~6 billion dollars. Federal expenditures this year are ~3.90 trillion dollars. Say the fence is significantly more expensive than planned and runs 10 billion dollars. That’s still a rounding error in federal outlays: 3.91 versus 3.90 trillion. For one year. Anyone who says it can’t be done is lying. It only can’t be done if it never becomes a national priority.

    Read More
  22. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The EU is a sick joke.

    Unfortunately, you can bet your boots that the ‘great British electorate’ will vote to remain in the EU in 2017 due to massive, overwhelming and expensive propaganda paid for by big business, which will cow and intimidate them with patently bogus threats about ‘millions of jobs going’ – as if the UK didn’t ‘lose millions of jobs’ during the MMM.

    Saying all that,it’s pretty certain that sometime in the future the EU will collapse of its own volition. It’s just a mass of such obvious self contradiction and absurdity – and led by damned fools.

    Read More
  23. also think pieces in leading newspapers and leading politicians assure the public that what is to be done now is to support the 1 billion people of subsaharan Africa (soon it will be 2 billion, 5 billion, 10 billion) to reach the wealth of maybe Poland.
    While I think that it will be almost impossible for subsaharan Africa to reach the wealth of Thailand. This whole plan is like if Japan said: enough with those earthquakes, we are going down this mariana trench and fix the geological tensions

    Read More
  24. slumber_j says:

    “Fences … do not send the right message, particularly to our neighbors,” said spokeswoman Mina Andreeva.

    Robert Frost famously disagreed:

    http://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/mending-wall

    Read More
  25. What would John Hunyadi do? Forward defense.

    Hungary could save money by offering to pay the cost of building a fence in the logical location, along the Greek-Turkish border.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Romanian
    But it gives up control over the wall. So, if the Greeks bite the multiculti bullet or the Bulgarians get bitten by the hordes, your wall won't do you any good.
  26. “You have to stabilize the countries of origin”

    Here is a plausible plan:

    1. Study the recommendations of Richard Pearle, Christopher Hitchens and Bernard-Henri Levi.

    2. Do the opposite.

    Read More
  27. CK says:
    @Lex Corvus


    Uh, you know, there’s a slight difference between a dictatorship locking its subjects in and a democracy protecting its citizens by locking foreign mobs out…

     

    True, but careful not to fall into the ol' "freedom & democracy" trap. Your fundamental point has nothing to do with dictatorship or democracy per se; the relevant distinction is keeping people in vs. keeping them out. If Switzerland, a democracy, built a wall to keep people in, that'd be bad; if Saudi Arabia, an absolute monarchy, built a wall to keep people out, that'd be good. Indeed, one of those countries did build a wall to keep people out—and it ain't the democracy.

    Once you have a fence or a wall, the distinction of whether it is to keep you in or keep them out disappears. It does both simultaneously and equally well. All that is necessary is another Patriot Act, or an IRS interpretation of why you might want to exit.

    Read More
  28. @Priss Factor
    "In other words, All We Have to Do Is to Solve the Sunni-Shi’ite dispute."

    The West did a great job by aiding Sunni Hussein against Shias, then aiding Shias against Hussein, and then aiding Sunni jihadists against Iraqi Shia government, and etc.

    If the West had left those nations alone, they'd be ruled by autocrats and there would be peace.

    Just look at Saudi Arabia. Hardly a socially just place. But there is stability cuz the Royal family is allowed a stern hand to keep things under control.

    Now, what would happen to Saudi Arabia if US and NATO were to bomb the Royal Family, drive them out of power, and then allow Shia minority around oil wells to rise up with guns? Saudi Arabia would also turn into Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

    Every diverse nation is unstable. We saw this in Yugoslavia. Once the central government lost power, the place began to rip apart. And US encouraged it to play divide-and-rule. 100,000s died, and that happened in Europe.
    Russians understood the problem of diversity and swallowed their pride and decided to dissolve the Soviet Union and much of the Muslim and non-Russian states go off on their own.

    Turkey could also blow up if the West were to topple the regime in Ankarak. Turkish Kurds who make up 15% to 20% of the population, will seek independence, and there will be serious civil war.
    We saw what happened to Ukraine once the West meddled and toppled the government.

    There are deep-seated differences between Shias and Sunnies, but recent problems have less to do with Arab history than Western policy of meddling in select countries.
    The West should go for the Saudi Policy, i.e. a policy where the West treats every Middle Eastern nation like it treats Saudi Arabia. Let the ruling government do whatever it needs to maintain control and just do business.
    Libya was at peace before US and EU blew that place up.

    “…what would happen to Saudi Arabia if US and NATO were to bomb the Royal Family, drive them out of power, and then allow Shia minority around oil wells to rise up with guns?”

    Sounds good, but finish the fence first.

    Read More
  29. @Salty
    Yeah. What the hell is going on with that? Not 'Isabel' (a beautiful Spanish name) or 'Isabella' a workable hybrid but a straight up f- you faux mestizo mismash. She sounds like a poorly drawn Sci-Fi character. All the money in my pocket says that's not the first name on her birth certificate.

    Actually, Izabella is the Hungarian version of Isabel. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was Hungarian, married to an Englishman called Cooper.

    Read More
  30. @Salty
    Yeah. What the hell is going on with that? Not 'Isabel' (a beautiful Spanish name) or 'Isabella' a workable hybrid but a straight up f- you faux mestizo mismash. She sounds like a poorly drawn Sci-Fi character. All the money in my pocket says that's not the first name on her birth certificate.

    Apparently Izabella could also be Polish.

    Read More
  31. Romanian says:
    @John Gruskos
    What would John Hunyadi do? Forward defense.

    Hungary could save money by offering to pay the cost of building a fence in the logical location, along the Greek-Turkish border.

    But it gives up control over the wall. So, if the Greeks bite the multiculti bullet or the Bulgarians get bitten by the hordes, your wall won’t do you any good.

    Read More
  32. […] EU Denounces Hungary & Bulgaria for Negotiating with Israel to Buy Border Fences […]

    Read More
  33. […] sej använda israeliska spärrmetoder, till EUs förtvivlan. Länk1, länk2, länk3,  länk4. Jag förmodar du inser hur TT förrädiskt ljuger till okunniga. […]

    Read More
  34. […] sej använda israeliska spärrmetoder, till EUs förtvivlan. Länk1, länk2, länk3,  länk4. Jag förmodar du inser hur TT förrädiskt ljuger till okunniga. […]

    Read More

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