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Ellis Island Immigrants More Segregated Than Blacks.
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As we all know, segregation is why blacks’ test scores aren’t high on average, and the only solution is for the government to move blacks out of remote jobless hellholes like Brooklyn, DC, Oakland, downtown Los Angeles, Chicago’s Gold Coast, and so forth and send them to places brimming with opportunity like Ferguson and Dubuque.

But it turns out that Ellis Island immigrants also were highly segregated, which is why Italians, Greeks, and Jews are so poor today. I bet they were sometimes even redlined.

 
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  1. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

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  2. Barnard says:

    Wasn’t this segregation that the immigrants wanted? First generation Irish wanted to live in Irish neighborhoods, same for Poles, Italians, etc. Many of them followed other family members or friends wanted to be close to people they already knew.

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    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    Blacks want segregation as much as the next group, it's just that they want access to whitey's stuff when it suits them.
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  3. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:
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  4. My maternal grandmother hated coming to America. She left the beautiful hills outside of Rome for the gritty industrial city that was Buffalo in the early 1900s. Surprisingly, while she never learned to read or write English, all 7 of her children graduated from HS. The thing was to take advantage of all the opportunities that were in America. I don’t think that the Italian immigrants living together in their close knit neighborhoods considered that to be segregation. Nor do I think the Poles thought that they were segregated in their neighborhoods anchored by strong Catholic parishes and beautiful churches,after all both groups of immigrants came from countries that were almost 100% Italian or Polish.

    Read More
    • Agree: Barnard
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    Trenton NJ back in the 1970s was clearly and cleanly divided into ethnic neighborhoods, Croatian, Hungarian, German Catholic, German Lutheran, etc. The ethnic segregation was purely voluntary. Each neighborhood had its own church or two, many still providing services in the language of the "old country". The neighborhoods were all clean, well kept, and safe. There was quite a bit of ethnic mixing among the younger residents of these neighborhoods and everyone seemed to get along. Then Negroes arrived and the place went to hell faster than I could write a description of the process. Today Trenton is a hell hole.
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  5. My Mennonite great great’s landed in the USA in the 1870′s. I would guess it was mostly self segregation as most of them did not venture outside of the Mennonite community until WWII. The Mennonite faction my parents grew up in, did not allow marriage to other Protestants until 1946. Interesting enough, among my Parent’s cousins were an amazingly high percentage of The Millionaire Next Door types. As agriculture became more mechanized many started successful business, most lived well below there means, never ever flashy, frugal to a fault. Oh yea, and many of them suffered violent discrimination in WWI and again in WWII for speaking German and being pacifists. But in true Mennonite fashion they didn’t bitch.

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  6. Off topic, but Steve, Jordan Peterson just posted an old article of yours on his Facebook page. Didn’t expect that move. Peterson only commented “The largest study ever done on the effects of diversity,” and his fans seem to like them some Sailer. When the Gen Z boys find their way here, I hope they at least learn something about golf. That, and the Ferguson Effect. :D

    The article he linked:

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/fragmented-future/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    From Steve's 2007 article:

    "Those who live in more homogeneous places, such as New Hampshire, Montana or Lewiston, Maine..."

    How is Lewiston now that it has been diversely enriched by diverse Somalis? Surely safer, more vibrant, with better schools and lots of tech start-ups.
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  7. That sound you hear is Tiny Duck’s erection deflating.

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    • LOL: Seamus Padraig
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  8. @Barnard
    Wasn't this segregation that the immigrants wanted? First generation Irish wanted to live in Irish neighborhoods, same for Poles, Italians, etc. Many of them followed other family members or friends wanted to be close to people they already knew.

    Blacks want segregation as much as the next group, it’s just that they want access to whitey’s stuff when it suits them.

    Read More
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  9. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    It wasn’t just Ellis Island immigrants in urban areas who were segregated. Even rural areas were. For example, Norwegian rural immigrants were more segregated than Italian urban immigrants, which makes sense since cities are more diverse:

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  10. njguy73 says:

    Yes, I’ve heard about how my Jewish grandmother was barred from lunch counters, leading to the Flatbush sit-ins. And how Joe DiMaggio, Hank Greenberg, and Stan Musial had to play in the Ethnic Baseball League. And the Freedom Summer of 1924, when enlightened Whites rode buses to Philadelphia to enroll voters, and racists killed three of the volunteers.

    Well, the last one’s partially true. Just not that year, and not the Philadelphia you’re thinking of.

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  11. Sean says:

    Ellis Island immigrants (Catholics) and the non Ellis Island immigrants from Ireland who were not all catholic by any means wanted to live in their own neighborhoods but the WASP elite were not gong to stand for it. Hence block busting was very focused on Catholic ethnic neighborhoods.

    “Jones argues that the established urban neighborhoods did not deteriorate simply because of economic crises or demographic accidents. Rather, from the 1950s on, a combination of misnamed redevelopment programs and malicious social planning turned these areas into war zones, and finally, depopulated deserts. … He insists that what motivated such experiments as busing and scattered public housing, presented as urban renewal, was at least partly a disdain for urban ethnics … . Protestant elites and their Jewish liberal allies never hid their contempt for the white ethnics who resisted their plans for thrusting underclass blacks into ethnic Catholic neighborhoods. Nor did the urban reformers whom Jones examines, such as Louis Wirth and the Blanshard brothers, conceal their intention of mainstreaming Catholic immigrants and their descendants, whom they viewed as a threat to their notion of a ‘pluralistic America.’ … Jones correctly understands the overshadowing role of ethnic hatred in political life. … Jones demonstrates that anti-Catholic Protestants have also contributed to this manipulative revolution from above, carried out in the name of fighting ‘prejudice.’” Paul Gottfried, Chronicles Magazine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ian M.
    This phenomenon was present a hundred years earlier, too. For example, the Know Nothings outlawed segregation in public schools in Massachusetts in 1855, in part as a way to disrupt Irish Catholic communities in Boston.

    http://www.wsc.mass.edu/mhj/pdfs/Taylor%20summer%202000%20combined.pdf

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  12. Dr. X says:

    Fascinating paper shows that European immigrants were highly segregated from ‘old stock’ WASP Americans and remained so until WWII. Also blacks less segregated than South and East Europeans in early 20th c

    I’ll buy that. My ancestry is Polish, my wife’s is Sicilian. Both of our families lived in highly segregated ethnic neighborhoods. In my experience, the Polish, Irish and Italian immigrants in the North preferred ethnically segregated neighborhoods… and while these groups eventually began to intermarry, they thing they had in common was that they all hated blacks. Once blacks began moving into an ethnic neighborhood, the old stock ethnic immigrants baled out for the suburbs in droves. This was true of a lot of Northern cities: New York, Pittsburgh, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee…

    In some cases, they still police ethnic neighborhoods to keep blacks out… this video of a guy in an Irish neighborhood endorsing an arson when blacks moved in is worth watching:

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    The blond guy has more T in his left pinky than the reporter does in his whole body.
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  13. Lot says:
    @Sean Kelly
    Off topic, but Steve, Jordan Peterson just posted an old article of yours on his Facebook page. Didn't expect that move. Peterson only commented "The largest study ever done on the effects of diversity," and his fans seem to like them some Sailer. When the Gen Z boys find their way here, I hope they at least learn something about golf. That, and the Ferguson Effect. :D

    The article he linked:
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/fragmented-future/

    From Steve’s 2007 article:

    “Those who live in more homogeneous places, such as New Hampshire, Montana or Lewiston, Maine…”

    How is Lewiston now that it has been diversely enriched by diverse Somalis? Surely safer, more vibrant, with better schools and lots of tech start-ups.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    I drove through briefly some time back, but long enough to see one of the enrichers cavorting about with a white woman and listen to a gelded hipster bartender play dumb as to where the crime was coming from (attributing it to “apartments”). Seems fine.
    , @Charles Pewitt
    Racial makeup in NH schools

    Each racial group's proportion of total student population:

    White Hispanic Black Asian*

    Manchester 57.3 23.4 9.0 5.2

    Nashua 58.6 25.2 3.5 9.4

    Concord 78.4 3.9 9.3 7.7

    Statewide 85.5 6.2 2.0 3.4

    New Hampshire is being overloaded and inundated with non-traditional populations.

    New Hampshire is being demographically transformed.

    http://www.unionleader.com/education/Nashuas-changing-demographics-require-a-bigger-school-budget-superintendent-says-05112018
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  14. TGGP says: • Website

    Someone once said that the old south was characterized by white supremacy, while the north had white separatism (the “free soil” folks often didn’t want slaves or freedmen around). During the Ellis Island era, most blacks would have lived in the south where segregation laws reduced the need for residential segregation. So it sounds plausible that immigrants might have been more geographically segregated at that time.

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  15. Read More
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  16. I’ve posted this previously. Inwood was the last Irish neighborhood in Manhattan. This short film captures a different version of 1968 New York and 1968 America than the one we think of for that year today. Gaelic Park is still around, but a mere shadow of its former self. An ethnic ghetto is not always a bad thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim sweeney
    But, up in The Bronx, Woodlawn lives on as Irish as ever. I grew up there. Lived there from 1938 till 1956. Never remember a black person living in Woodlawn. Jews owned the few candy stores and the local 5&10 cent store. There were a few others,like my Mother, but all thought she was German. I did too until my marriage. But that's another story

    The adjacent neighborhood, Wakefield, was Italian.

    NYC was like that years ago and it worked.
    , @Obee
    The scene on the the steps of Good Shepard was typical of most Catholic parishes in the Spring of 1968 - even in the leafiest of suburbs minus the brogues.

    The predictions did and did not come through. The Irish moved away but weren’t replaced by blacks and Puerto Ricans. Dominicans moved into the tenements and were, far more than the Irish, hostile to others - especially the blacks.

    The kid from Fordham thinks his superior understanding will be the future of the Church. We know how that turned out.

    Inwood is rapidly gentrifying although I don’t know who is moving into the fifth floor walk ups.
    , @AndrewR
    Cucked priest there at the end. Sad!
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  17. @Buffalo Joe
    My maternal grandmother hated coming to America. She left the beautiful hills outside of Rome for the gritty industrial city that was Buffalo in the early 1900s. Surprisingly, while she never learned to read or write English, all 7 of her children graduated from HS. The thing was to take advantage of all the opportunities that were in America. I don't think that the Italian immigrants living together in their close knit neighborhoods considered that to be segregation. Nor do I think the Poles thought that they were segregated in their neighborhoods anchored by strong Catholic parishes and beautiful churches,after all both groups of immigrants came from countries that were almost 100% Italian or Polish.

    Trenton NJ back in the 1970s was clearly and cleanly divided into ethnic neighborhoods, Croatian, Hungarian, German Catholic, German Lutheran, etc. The ethnic segregation was purely voluntary. Each neighborhood had its own church or two, many still providing services in the language of the “old country”. The neighborhoods were all clean, well kept, and safe. There was quite a bit of ethnic mixing among the younger residents of these neighborhoods and everyone seemed to get along. Then Negroes arrived and the place went to hell faster than I could write a description of the process. Today Trenton is a hell hole.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Jus, that was the Buffalo of my childhood. Don't forget the foreign language newspapers .
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  18. Don”t you know? Europeans murdered the Indians and moved them out of the way so that black slaves could build a country for the Ellis Island people to come and finish so that ultimately Asians can have a new place to populate.

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  19. My mom bought a piece of land in Wisconsin in the mid 1950′s. There was a covenant that stated that “This property cannot be sold to Negroes or Jews.”

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  20. herp derp says:

    too bad we couldn’t keep those 4 million irish immigrants segregated…all the way back in ireland. thousands would have been no problem, millions and we see the results. in aggregate, the second worst immigrant group. they did significant damage to the US, and turned out exactly as all the detractors 200 years ago said they would.

    like that old guy from new york city who got bumped off by that young woman from puerto rico. in the coming years a lot of the old, established, machine politics guys getting bumped off by their young, vibrant ‘allies’ will be irish men who have spent their entire career doing as much damage to the US as they could.

    it’s not a coincidence who hart and celler were, that biden was obama’s vice president, or what the kennedy’s did to the US over the last 60 years.

    steve often quotes matt damon in the good shepard. this is exactly correct with regards to the irish, even 4 or 5 generations on. many of them see the US as the physical embodiment of the english, the WASP, and they hate it, and always will, for historical reasons. the majority of them still vote democrat, long after all the other european groups went majority republican. when john malone became the biggest private land owner, he couldn’t resist making a negative comment about it.

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  21. @Clifford Brown
    I've posted this previously. Inwood was the last Irish neighborhood in Manhattan. This short film captures a different version of 1968 New York and 1968 America than the one we think of for that year today. Gaelic Park is still around, but a mere shadow of its former self. An ethnic ghetto is not always a bad thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnG6pLwOflQ

    But, up in The Bronx, Woodlawn lives on as Irish as ever. I grew up there. Lived there from 1938 till 1956. Never remember a black person living in Woodlawn. Jews owned the few candy stores and the local 5&10 cent store. There were a few others,like my Mother, but all thought she was German. I did too until my marriage. But that’s another story

    The adjacent neighborhood, Wakefield, was Italian.

    NYC was like that years ago and it worked.

    Read More
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  22. L Woods says:
    @Lot
    From Steve's 2007 article:

    "Those who live in more homogeneous places, such as New Hampshire, Montana or Lewiston, Maine..."

    How is Lewiston now that it has been diversely enriched by diverse Somalis? Surely safer, more vibrant, with better schools and lots of tech start-ups.

    I drove through briefly some time back, but long enough to see one of the enrichers cavorting about with a white woman and listen to a gelded hipster bartender play dumb as to where the crime was coming from (attributing it to “apartments”). Seems fine.

    Read More
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  23. A turn of the Century (c. 1900) farming manual, when discussing farm labor, describes “Negroes” and Hungarian in approximately the same terms.

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  24. In Dubuque they have taken over a small section of a less prosperous part of town and driven it further into the socioeconomic dirt.
    I believe the opportunity in Dubuque thst Steve metions is the opprtunity to glom onto Iowas generous welfare programs.

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  25. Obee says:

    If you were Irish in 1850 you walked off the packet ship on the East River and found whatever hovel was available for shelter. You worked as a laborer for low pay and long hours on days when work was available. If lucky you found some stability, married and through the Church got your children at least a rudimentary education. A not insignificant number of these children, often through politics, entered the middle class. To these there was no segregation except the long lingering anti-catholic kind and the inclination to marry and educate your children within the church and socialize with those of similar background. By the third generation Americanization of this cohort was complete.

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  26. @Lot
    From Steve's 2007 article:

    "Those who live in more homogeneous places, such as New Hampshire, Montana or Lewiston, Maine..."

    How is Lewiston now that it has been diversely enriched by diverse Somalis? Surely safer, more vibrant, with better schools and lots of tech start-ups.

    Racial makeup in NH schools

    Each racial group’s proportion of total student population:

    White Hispanic Black Asian*

    Manchester 57.3 23.4 9.0 5.2

    Nashua 58.6 25.2 3.5 9.4

    Concord 78.4 3.9 9.3 7.7

    Statewide 85.5 6.2 2.0 3.4

    New Hampshire is being overloaded and inundated with non-traditional populations.

    New Hampshire is being demographically transformed.

    http://www.unionleader.com/education/Nashuas-changing-demographics-require-a-bigger-school-budget-superintendent-says-05112018

    Read More
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  27. Nashua, New Hampshire — population 88,000 — is going Third World in a bad way. The Nashua public schools are being swamped with non-White students. Manchester and Concord public schools are being similarly transformed.

    Read More
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  28. Obee says:
    @Clifford Brown
    I've posted this previously. Inwood was the last Irish neighborhood in Manhattan. This short film captures a different version of 1968 New York and 1968 America than the one we think of for that year today. Gaelic Park is still around, but a mere shadow of its former self. An ethnic ghetto is not always a bad thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnG6pLwOflQ

    The scene on the the steps of Good Shepard was typical of most Catholic parishes in the Spring of 1968 – even in the leafiest of suburbs minus the brogues.

    The predictions did and did not come through. The Irish moved away but weren’t replaced by blacks and Puerto Ricans. Dominicans moved into the tenements and were, far more than the Irish, hostile to others – especially the blacks.

    The kid from Fordham thinks his superior understanding will be the future of the Church. We know how that turned out.

    Inwood is rapidly gentrifying although I don’t know who is moving into the fifth floor walk ups.

    Read More
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  29. AndrewR says:
    @Dr. X

    Fascinating paper shows that European immigrants were highly segregated from ‘old stock’ WASP Americans and remained so until WWII. Also blacks less segregated than South and East Europeans in early 20th c
     
    I'll buy that. My ancestry is Polish, my wife's is Sicilian. Both of our families lived in highly segregated ethnic neighborhoods. In my experience, the Polish, Irish and Italian immigrants in the North preferred ethnically segregated neighborhoods... and while these groups eventually began to intermarry, they thing they had in common was that they all hated blacks. Once blacks began moving into an ethnic neighborhood, the old stock ethnic immigrants baled out for the suburbs in droves. This was true of a lot of Northern cities: New York, Pittsburgh, Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee...

    In some cases, they still police ethnic neighborhoods to keep blacks out... this video of a guy in an Irish neighborhood endorsing an arson when blacks moved in is worth watching:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdwSJIbomAw

    The blond guy has more T in his left pinky than the reporter does in his whole body.

    Read More
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  30. AndrewR says:
    @Clifford Brown
    I've posted this previously. Inwood was the last Irish neighborhood in Manhattan. This short film captures a different version of 1968 New York and 1968 America than the one we think of for that year today. Gaelic Park is still around, but a mere shadow of its former self. An ethnic ghetto is not always a bad thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnG6pLwOflQ

    Cucked priest there at the end. Sad!

    Read More
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  31. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Trenton NJ back in the 1970s was clearly and cleanly divided into ethnic neighborhoods, Croatian, Hungarian, German Catholic, German Lutheran, etc. The ethnic segregation was purely voluntary. Each neighborhood had its own church or two, many still providing services in the language of the "old country". The neighborhoods were all clean, well kept, and safe. There was quite a bit of ethnic mixing among the younger residents of these neighborhoods and everyone seemed to get along. Then Negroes arrived and the place went to hell faster than I could write a description of the process. Today Trenton is a hell hole.

    Jus, that was the Buffalo of my childhood. Don’t forget the foreign language newspapers .

    Read More
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  32. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:

    The settlement pattern in the old days was Blacks in the South, WASPs in the suburbs, and ethnics in the cities.

    Then the Blacks moved to the cities and the ethnics moved to the suburbs.

    The next stage will probably involve a Black migration to the suburbs.

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  33. What i’ve never been able to figure out is how those people in Japan and Korea and Taiwan and Hong Kong and now China manage to overcome the burden of segregation and do so well?

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  34. Ian M. says:
    @Sean
    Ellis Island immigrants (Catholics) and the non Ellis Island immigrants from Ireland who were not all catholic by any means wanted to live in their own neighborhoods but the WASP elite were not gong to stand for it. Hence block busting was very focused on Catholic ethnic neighborhoods.

    "Jones argues that the established urban neighborhoods did not deteriorate simply because of economic crises or demographic accidents. Rather, from the 1950s on, a combination of misnamed redevelopment programs and malicious social planning turned these areas into war zones, and finally, depopulated deserts. ... He insists that what motivated such experiments as busing and scattered public housing, presented as urban renewal, was at least partly a disdain for urban ethnics ... . Protestant elites and their Jewish liberal allies never hid their contempt for the white ethnics who resisted their plans for thrusting underclass blacks into ethnic Catholic neighborhoods. Nor did the urban reformers whom Jones examines, such as Louis Wirth and the Blanshard brothers, conceal their intention of mainstreaming Catholic immigrants and their descendants, whom they viewed as a threat to their notion of a 'pluralistic America.' ... Jones correctly understands the overshadowing role of ethnic hatred in political life. ... Jones demonstrates that anti-Catholic Protestants have also contributed to this manipulative revolution from above, carried out in the name of fighting 'prejudice.'" Paul Gottfried, Chronicles Magazine.
     

    This phenomenon was present a hundred years earlier, too. For example, the Know Nothings outlawed segregation in public schools in Massachusetts in 1855, in part as a way to disrupt Irish Catholic communities in Boston.

    http://www.wsc.mass.edu/mhj/pdfs/Taylor%20summer%202000%20combined.pdf

    Read More
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