The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"Elizabeth Warren Opens Door to Reparations for Native Americans"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From the Washington Post:

Elizabeth Warren opens door to reparations for Native Americans

By Annie Linskey February 22 at 10:43 PM

MANCHESTER, N.H. — Sen. Elizabeth Warren said Friday evening that Native Americans should be “part of the conversation” on reparations, showing a willingness to expand the debate over whether minority groups that have faced discrimination should be financially compensated by the federal government.

Warren is one of four Democratic presidential hopefuls who have said in recent days that they’re open to providing some type of reparations to African Americans who are descendants of people who were enslaved in the United States, although they’ve offered varying levels of details about how the goal would be achieved.

So far, Warren is the only one to entertain the notion of including Native Americans. “I think it’s a part of the conversation,” she said when asked whether the group should also receive some kind of relief. “I think it’s an important part of the conversation.”

She doesn’t seem to have a politician’s needed knack for knowing when to change the subject and answer a different question than the one asked.

This ground is fraught for Warren, who claimed to be Native American for about two decades when she was a law professor. She has apologized for doing this, but the issue dogged her in her first Senate race and has been a persistent source of tension in her nascent presidential bid.

… Warren did not talk about reparations as part of her address. She recently told the New York Times that she would support the concept. Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) and former housing and urban development secretary Julián Castro both have said in vague terms that they support reparations for black Americans. Self-help guru Marianne Williamson has offered a detailed plan to give black Americans $100 billion.

Does Kamala qualify under Kamala’s reparation plan? Does Liz under Liz’s? These are giant tar pit issues for Democrats since they get everybody thinking about existing affirmative action programs and immediately thinking about fraud. (What almost nobody realizes about affirmative action is that there isn’t as much race fraud as you’d expect … because modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race.)

 
Hide 165 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. JimDandy says:

    Ah, the dilemma this suddenly poses for American Indians who are currently expressing their disgust for her. Reminds me of the joke about the ultimate Jewish dilemma: Half price on pork chops.

    • LOL: Cato
  2. Anon[278] • Disclaimer says:

    She doesn’t seem to have a politician’s needed knack for knowing when to change the subject and answer a different question than the one asked.

    This!

    She was on a late night talk show in 2016, and my impression was that someone had recognized her problem and tried to give her media training. It sounded like she had been given two or three talking points to make on the show and a few soundbite variations to choose from.

    But her problem was the segue from the asked question to her talking point. She was extremely awkward, coming off as evasive. She just doesn’t have the DNA to handle this stuff. That’s not a criticism of her, just an observation, and it may get in her way as she comes more into the spotlight.

  3. Does Kamala qualify under Kamala’s reparation plan? Does Liz under Liz’s? These are giant tar pit issues for Democrats since they get everybody thinking about existing affirmative action programs and immediately thinking about fraud.

    Steve, I admire your restraint in not calling these ‘tar baby issues,’ or ‘tar baby mama drama.’

  4. Anon[145] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Okay, but it has to begin with end of all future immigration as it was mass immigration that led to the ‘genocide’ of the Indians. Onrush of Diversity led to demise of Indigeneity.

    If Zionism was about restoring the lost homeland to Jews, we need Inzionism to restore Indians in the Americas. Since immigration = ‘genocide’ of Indians, the US has a moral obligation to end all immigration-invasion.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  5. Anon1 says:

    Natives already get reparations. Casinos, federal funding for reservations, Bureau of Indian Affairs, affirmative action, etc.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  6. I am (partly) of Irish descent. As all “true Irishmen”™ know, the evil English practiced their evil racist, imperialist, colonialist policies on us Irish before they imposed those policies on Native Americans, blacks, etc.

    I want reparations.

    Of course, I do not expect my fellow Irishmen to pay. But, the English are well-known to have once been “Anglo-Saxons,” who were once Germans. Therefore, I expect Germans as well as English to pay.

    However… I am also (partly) of German and English extraction. This is going to get complicated figuring out how much the English and German parts of me owe the Irish part of me!

    But, I do want us Irish to have a seat at the table from the get-go. I mean this reparation thing is gonna be big!

    Now, I hear that the Poles, the Italians, the South Slavs, the Ainu, the Bretons, the Catalans, the Koreans, the Maltese, the southern Chinese, and quite a few other people have some real legitimate gripes too…

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @songbird
    , @Anonymous
  7. The value of all the land in the lower 48 states has been estimated at $23 trillion. Average rental yield in America is 2.91%. There are about 6 million Native American Americans.

    Our annual rental bill, therefore is about $690 billion a year, or a bit more than a million dollars a year per Native American. But Sen. Warren gets only about $1,000 a year, since she’s only 1/1024 Native American.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/generalmoney/what-us-land-is-really-worth-state-by-state/ar-BBkTfZS

    https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/North-America/United-States/rent-yields/a

  8. Amazing how many votes you can buy with other people’s money. Not sure the Indians will forgive Warren even with reparations or that they need more money.

  9. Tyrion 2 says:

    Hundreds of reccomendations for this nonsense. NYT readers will believe anything.

    So let me tell you how it is for me, a native-born American citizen of Middle Eastern (Assyrian Christian) ancestry. I no longer go anywhere by myself. I no longer go out at night. I make sure my phone is charged and working at all times. Many of my close friends and I have given each other the keys to our homes, so that we have a safe haven to flee to, if our own homes are targeted. We make sure all of our phone numbers are on speed dial. We look after each other’s children. We no longer allow our teenagers to go out alone, even in the daytime.

  10. @PiltdownMan

    That’s what posting at 3:00 a.m. does to your brain.

    $115,000 per Native American, not a million. Sen. Warren gets about a hundred bucks.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  11. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Self-help guru Marianne Williamson has offered a detailed plan to give black Americans $100 billion.

    There are around 45 million black Americans, so that $100 billion would be about $2,200 to each black American.

  12. RobUK says:

    Self-help guru Marianne Williamson has offered a detailed plan to give black Americans $100 billion.

    Help yourself to other people’s money!

  13. Anonymous[418] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Who is threatening these people?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @donut
  14. BB753 says:

    Wait! Didn’t they already get the casinos as reparations?

  15. A few days ago aoc already talked about reparations for Latinos. I guess that Asians are about to demand reparations, too.

  16. Didn’t Warren’s Cherokee tribe keep slaves?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @densa
  17. @Tyrion 2

    Every other news story seems to be a moralistic confabulation. It’s so condescending. A few years back the guys with the turbans were cranking out what-if-the-white-racists-mistake-us-for-Muslims stories. I don’t recall an article about an actual mistaken-for-a-Muslim hate crime though.

  18. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anonymous

    It was under an article about white supremacists…or rather, the phantom of them.

    • Replies: @BB753
  19. donut says:
    @Anonymous

    Their history ? I believe they mostly come from Iraq .

  20. BB753 says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Those measures would make more sense against Blacks.

    • Agree: bomag
  21. ic1000 says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Yes, pro rata payments are key to the Warren Reparations Plan.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  22. El Dato says:
    @miss marple

    There were a few one-on-one attacks during a the Bush Years but nothing big.

  23. @Anonymous

    “There are around 45 million black Americans, so that $100 billion would be about $2,200 to each black American.”

    Enough to keep them in Nikes.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
  24. MikeW says:

    I wonder if she ever consulted actual native Americans about the idea.

    I once had a conversation with an officer of the Ojibwa tribe who railed against government handouts. When I asked about his marrying a Caucasian, he said “believe me, Mike, you don’t want to marry someone who’s been on welfare their whole life”.

  25. jim jones says:

    Us Brits have never been paid back for all the money we spent establishing the `Merican Colonies. What with interest this must be a tidy sum now.

    • LOL: BB753
  26. bomag says:
    @Anon1

    I do some work on a reservation. The federal, state, and charity money that flows in is astonishing.

  27. Tank says:

    There’s plenty of fraud in set asides for black contractors.

  28. songbird says:
    @PhysicistDave

    So, how much would the Navajo have to pay the Hopi?

  29. tyrone says:

    QUICK! get your self tested , there could be GOLD! in your DNA!

  30. @PiltdownMan

    I guess 3:27 wasn’t any better, Piltdown. No way would Chief Warren get 100 bucks. It would be $115 BEFORE TAXES – even just in the 32% bracket (married filing jointly, making under $400,000) along with big Taxachusetts state income tax, her marginal rate would net her, like, what 70 bucks. Except that, NO, it WOULD HAVE netted her 70 bucks, but then, see, Congress will have to raise the rates again to, you know, pay for the reperations and all.

    OK, she’ll get enough to buy a few beads and mirrors from the white man and maybe a blanket or two (hold the smallpox).

  31. songbird says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Maybe, the way out of this mess is to bring back old intra-European grievances. For instance, Irish and Poles aren’t very numinous, like Negroes. Their resentment is likely to cause resentment and pretty soon we will be back to prideful nationalism.

  32. @Anonymous

    Again, what matters is NET amount. After a downpayment on new wheels, along with spinning rims, each black American will end up with only about $23 left in DISCRETIONARY FUNDS. Is it really worth it, people?

  33. tyrone says:

    It will be so sad when Warren is crushed in the primaries ,some one this ham-handed provides so many giggles and grins………….we have AOC , spartacus ,ole joe and the CBC you say,can’t you be happy with those …..NO! I want my fake indian!

  34. O/T. Last year’s iSteve favorite, April Reign, is headed to the Oscars!

    https://news.avclub.com/oscarssowhite-creator-april-reign-is-attending-to-this-1832736527

    No word on what disgraced former Federal Election Commission lawyer April Sands is doing that evening…

  35. What almost nobody realizes about affirmative action is that there isn’t as much race fraud as you’d expect … because modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race.

    100% of affirmative action is fraudulent: taking White peoples’ money and refusing jobs and slots in schools to White people because of the color of their skin.

    As for American Indians, nobody discriminates against them. They’re where they are because of their own decisions and because the government has “helped” them to death.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  36. @Tyrion 2

    How awful for them. They should move to a less-hateful country.

  37. This is an example of the conservation of nonwhite power. The bigger their share of the vote gets, the more ridiculous their demands will get, and the less likely whites will put up with it. Their share of the white vote will approach 0% long before their share of the total vote reaches 50%.

  38. Come on Lizzy! We are all descended from conquerors and the conquered. Everyone has a potential gripe against everyone, including themselves. So quit trying to guilt us. I never owned a slave nor have I ever killed a Native American. And we cannot go back to Europe as it is full of third worlders and they will not admit white people. We have paid through the teeth via affirmative action. Back off!

  39. These are giant tar pit issues for Democrats

    Steve, don’t you mean tar baby? Which is really more apt.

  40. Jamie_NYC says:
    @Anonymous

    I know a bargain when I see one! I suggest we jump at this offer, and in return demand end to affirmative action and establishment of complete freedom of association.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  41. Jack D says:

    American Indians are not a big voter group. The real paydirt will come when some D candidate declares that s/he would like to offer reparations to Latinos. One aspect of the sleight of hand required to do this, which we are seeing already, is moving the timeline forward – reparations are due not because of slavery but because of “redlining”. Not only is this more recent, but it dates to a period when there were already at least Puerto Ricans, if not Mexicans, in the country who could plausibly qualify as victims of whitey and his evil redlining.

    Maybe Mexicans can be counted as a type of Amerindian, which they are in a sense (and at this point the average Mexican immigrant probably has more Indian blood than the average American Indian tribal member, many of whom look like Liz Warren).

    These proposals are like the party platform that is issued at the nominating convention – they usually disappear without a trace after the election because they are completely impractical and will never get passed by both houses of Congress, but they send smoke signals (oops, not PC – dog whistles) that are appealing to the party’s voter base.

  42. Jack D says:
    @Tyrion 2

    What this woman (you can tell it’s a woman) is saying is absolutely true. Just the other day I heard about a gay black man who tried to buy a sandwich in Chicago and he was targeted by white racists and doused with bleach and a noose was put around his neck . Horrifying!

    • LOL: GermanReader2
  43. >>because modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race<<

    I think that lower-class white people, the most likely to benefit from affirmative action fraud, are actually lighter-skinned than higher class white people. A Celtic can't plausibly claim not to be white.

    Warren is an exception. As Rutgers law graduate they wouldn't have let her mop floors at Harvard except for her blatant race fraud. If there was some Pantone scale for whiteness, she would be pretty close to as white as possible, but I guess Harvard wanted to check the Native American box pretty bad so they let her slide.

  44. >>because modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race<<

    I think that lower-class white people, the most likely to benefit from affirmative action fraud, are actually lighter-skinned than higher class white people. A Celtic can't plausibly claim not to be white.

    Warren is an exception. As Rutgers law graduate they wouldn't have let her mop floors at Harvard except for her blatant race fraud. If there was some Pantone scale for whiteness, she would be pretty close to as white as possible, but I guess Harvard wanted to check the Native American box pretty bad so they let her slide

  45. Hail says: • Website

    • Tags: 100% Jussie-free content

    LOL.

  46. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Cherokees owned slaves. Liz Warren claimed to be part Delaware and part Cherokee. Liz has a $12 million stock portfolio and a $3 million home in Cambridge. Cough it up, Liz.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    , @Anon
  47. El Dato says:
    @PiltdownMan

    The value of all the land in the lower 48 states has been estimated at $23 trillion.

    Oh, one could actually pay off the debt fully with that. Now if that land actually were owned by FedGov…

  48. @Anon1

    And much, much more. An Indian guy I worked with told me that every house on the res was built by the taxpayer and given, free, to the Indians. What about the health clinics on the res? and who built the community centers with their gymnasiums in which they not only play basketball but rehearse and perform their tribal dances? What about the low-interest loans for purchase of their fishing boats with which they are entitled to one half the salmon and Dungeness crab catch in Washington State? Etc.

  49. Sleep says:
    @Anon1

    And in Alaska, we have private corporations that preferentially hire tribal members, and then disburse their profits to enrolled tribal members whether they work or not. This system provides a comfortable standard of living for Native Americans who cannot find work where they live.

    But clearly, other minorities also have problems with chronic unemployment, despite decades of government programs aimed at bettering their condition. Perhaps the government simply isn’t the answer, and we need to look north for inspiration. Could 2020 be the beginning of a bold new era in which private corporations, buoyed by no-bid government contracts, finally grow strong enough to rise above affirmative action and simply pay hundreds of billions of dollars to People of Color directly? Only time will tell.

  50. @JimDandy

    Ah, the dilemma this suddenly poses for American Indians who are currently expressing their disgust for her.

    Really no dilemma because they know white woman speaks with forked tongue.

    Blacks are more trusting for some reason.

  51. Self-help guru Marianne Williamson has offered a detailed plan to give black Americans $100 billion.

    Assuming 325 million Americans, and 13% of them black, that sounds like $2367 each.

    The amount of Colt 45 malt liquor that can be purchased thereby is left as an exercise for the reader.

    • Replies: @Cato
  52. This story makes you wonder how many of these “get-right” payouts really just start from the politician’s own personal sense of guilt.

    Elizabeth Warren does stolen valor on the Indians, feels bad about it (or at least getting caught) so she looks at taxpayer money as her own personal property and transforms herself racially again into “Queen of the Whites” who has been delegated authority to say white people are evil.

  53. @miss marple

    I don’t recall an article about an actual mistaken-for-a-Muslim hate crime though.

    There actually was years ago, but the killer was named Silva-Roque. Doesn’t sound white to me.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  54. Lizzie Borden Warren claimed that she is an Amerindian.

    Bruce Jenner claims that he is a woman.

    Jebby Bush claimed on a voter registration form that he is Hispanic.

    Rachel Dolezal tried to pass herself off as a Black.

  55. Just finished reading a long article in a 1987 National Geographic magazine about the Hudson Bay Company, “The Company of Adventurers” and their dealing and trade with Natives across 3 million square miles of wilderness Canada. Quoting Chief Don George, Indian activist, on the value of a trade ax, “Imagine its impact on a people whose main implement was still a sharpened stone. Five strokes and a sapling is down; one day, and a stockade is built- the Iron Age attached to a wooden handle!” Iron tools, copper kettles, yarn, cloth, warm blankets , traps, wire for snares, muskets all given in trade for fur. Warren would probably trade her beaver for a single vote.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  56. ‘…There are around 45 million black Americans, so that $100 billion would be about $2,200 to each black American…’

    If that’s to be instead of what they currently get, I’m for it.

  57. @miss marple

    Pepe the Frog says, that’s not funny, that’s Sikh:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=national+lampoon+that%27s+not+funny+that%27s+sick&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwi7Puo9LgAhWnoYMKHWxqClgQ_AUIDygC&biw=1130&bih=761#imgrc=P3ZsDpLDkLFQCM:

    https://www.sikhcoalition.org/press-release/sikhs-implore-action-accountability-response-new-fbi-hate-crime-sta

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/man-who-attacked-sikh-store-clerk-oregon-charged-hate-crime-n960316

    Also see Merkel’s Boner/Merkle’s Boner (Hat tip to Steve Sailer), Prince Harry has boner for Meghan Markle, could Mapplethorpe have had a boner for photo of American Indian athlete Jim Thorpe?*
    See also rare book by Miss Marple, available through Agatha Christie’s Auction: Murder of Khashoggi on the [Turkish] Orient Express

    * Jim Thorpe -See Reverse “Indian Giving” – International Olympic Committee takes back Thorpe’s medals.
    Also see good news: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/14/sports/jim-thorpe-s-olympic-medals-are-restored.html

    See also the “low dishonest decades” during which the Olympic Committee allowed Eastern Bloc full-time [captive] athletes, but not Western professional athletes, to compete.
    Also see Turbans, vicious mobs of Venezuelan “Turbos” and Sandinista “Turbas Divinas”

    • Replies: @Jon
  58. Anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    “Free stuff from white people.”

    This is the underlying philosophy of all progressive politics.

    How will things go when white people are in even lower supply?

    • Replies: @Anon
  59. Anon[184] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not sure people are aware that there are Indians who have been getting steady payments from the US government since the 1800s. Literally. Depending on what percentage of tribal Indian blood you have, Indians have been ALREADY getting reparations for GENERATIONS. Don’t whites know this?

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @Anon1
  60. @Tyrion 2

    That’s so funny—I’m, like, the exact opposite since I’m a white guy with deep roots in this country.

    Like every other white person I know, I’ve assaulted thousands of minorities. I never leave home without a noose in my truck. If I see a gay guy, black dude, or Assyrian Christian, I attack him on sight. On any given day, a dozen or more freshly lynched minorities dangle from the trees on my street.

    I never worry about the police since they’re all 100% onboard with my white supremacist agenda. Every cop in my medium-sized city is either a member of a legacy white supremacist group like the Ku Klux Klan or a crazed lone wolf so overcome with bloodlust for minorities that he can’t operate within any organization (other than the police force itself, which protects and encourages these people).

    • LOL: Anon1
  61. @Anon

    That is a different, but related point.

    The US Constitution specifically lays out treaties with Indian nations. Such as, this tribe sellls their land but the Indians retain fishing rights. Or this tribe has land taken from them, and in return the tribe gets X amount of money per year. Or the tribe gets to run a casino.

    These are rights specifically set aside for what were sovereign nations. The fishing or whaling rights set aside were rights the tribal members already had before the treaty. They were not given those rights, they merely negotiated a continuation of those rights.

    As for money given annually to tribes for land — that is the same as the US paying France for Louisiana or Russia for Alaska. The difference is, some tribes negotiated annual payments rather than a lump sum.

    Compare that to Barry Bonds and the Mets. Barry Bonds doesn’t get reparations from the Mets, he gets an annual check.

    Casinos run off reservations are a different matter. One might consider that a form of reparations, or not. Indians had the right to gamble on their land before the white men came. Strictly speaking those are not reparations, but if one considered them to be reparations on a tribal level I would not split hairs.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Kaganovitch
  62. J1234 says:

    This is just Fauxcahontas saying to the Indians:
    HI how are ya! HI how are ya! HI how are ya! HI how are ya!”

    Their victim status got her where she is today, so she has to do that now and then. And since she owes them a lot on a professional level, why not pay them back (with taxpayer money)?

  63. Hail says: • Website

    Troll proposal for Black reparations :

    Cancel all aid to Israel (up to $4 billion / year?) and deposit it into bank accounts of Black taxpayers.

    $4,000,000,000 Aid to Israel, to be revoked
    ~15,000,000+ Blacks in the USA pay taxes
    = ~$250 reparations to every Black man, woman, and child a year.

    Note: That’s enough for a free McDonald’s meal a week, every week.

    • Replies: @Hail
  64. Anon[315] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Anon

    When animals smell the scent of a wounded animal, they all flock to feed off it. White America is like a beached whale. Big and strong but helpless on the beach of PC. Even more helpless than Gulliver pinned down by tiny folks. White male must get back in the water of nationalism to regain the power. Globalism beaches nations and renders them helpless. Look at EU’s paralysis in the face of invasion.

    Mass non-white immigration-invasion is a feeding frenzy. Word got out to the world. Whites are down and cucked. White men lost manhood to blacks. White folks lost moral pride to Diversity. White folks worship and obey Jews who opened the gates. If you bark ‘racist’ at whites, they pee their pants and grovel. Whites are now beached seals or whales. As whites bleed, the vampiric immigration frenzy grows wilder.

  65. densa says:
    @Foreign Expert

    Why yes they did, and created their tribal rolls to keep the freed slaves from becoming part of the tribe. Let’s have a conversation!

    Sailer: These are giant tar pit issues for Democrats…

    Ha, ha, ha. Let’s have a conversation!

    Agree with others that if we could do away with all other compensations, $100 billion to Oprah Winfrey et. al, might be worth it. But no way it would stop there. AOC as already raised coverage to include Puerto Ricans. Expand that to include Mexicans and Hispanics of any flavor. Let’s have a conversation about Chinese railroad labor. Oh, speaking of railroads, didn’t the Irish used to be black? Whaddabout the Jews? Whaddabout the dot Indians who have been underpaid? Conversations are needed!

    If Smollet is half black, does he get half a black portion and half a Jewish one? Is Jamaican black equivalent to slave black? Are white Hispanics due as much as dark Mexicans?

    Ha, ha, ha. Mastodons check in but they don’t check out.

  66. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail

    ~$250 reparations to

    Correction: To every Black taxpayer.

    __________

    Is anyone courageous enough to propose this (Israel Money to Blacks instead)?

    Louis Farrakhan would.

    (I believe he is of recent Caribbean ancestry and thus ineligible himself, unless it really is just an across-the-board racial transfer.)

  67. @Anon

    Wasn’t there an American Indian Confederate General?

  68. @Unladen Swallow

    Unladen, Grant had an Indian aide, General Ely Parker, was with Grant at Appomattox.

  69. Anon[315] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Anon

    Cherokees owned slaves.

    And black cowboys took part in the ‘genocide’ of the Indians.

  70. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jamie_NYC

    My point is that a measly $2K check is not going to placate blacks. If anything, it’ll just make them more upset and think that it was a ruse and con to get them to shut up. My impression is that “reparations” for most black people conjures up images of lottery style windfalls in the millions. When they get that $2K check in the mail and find out that that’s it, they’re going to think that they’ve been cheated and get more agitated.

    • Replies: @anon
  71. … modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race.

    Because almost everybody else wishes, deep down, that they were like us. We have no desire to be, or to live like, anybody else. We are the object of the envy of everybody else. This is the root of every issue you write about here and that we comment on. It is all one, single, recipe, like the flower in an Italian bakery.

    • Agree: Dtbb
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  72. Jon says:
    @reactionry

    Why do all of your posts sound like they were posted by the Brad Pitt character in Twelve Monkeys?

  73. Jon says:

    Affirmative action, and all of the other minority based aid programs, are reparations. These benefits are a massive wealth transfer, and they have been going on for generations. This needs to be pointed out everytime the idea gets floated by anybody. In fact, we should just collectively start referring to any minority preference as a reparation

  74. @Unladen Swallow

    Stand Watie, Cherokee, was, I believe, a brigadier general in the army of the CSA. When I worked in the Cookson Hills of Oklahoma in the early 60s, there were people named for him. There were also a lot of sundown towns.

  75. @Unladen Swallow

    The first Indian general was Brig. General Stand Waite, of the Cherokee Nation.

    The Cherokee Nation was fighting its own civil war at the time, between the Treaty Party, originally led by Waite’s uncle Major Ridge, and the Anti-Treaty Parry led by John Ross. My family was part of the Treaty Party. The first one killed in the Cherokee civil war was my ancestor, “Chief Jack” Walker, in 1835, on orders of John Ross. Afterwards, a number of Treaty Party members signed a treaty of removal. After removal, almost all the prominent Treaty Party members were assassinated the same night, including Major Ridge, John Ridge (son of The Ridge, cousin to Stand Waite ), Elias Boudinet, fka Buck Waite (Stand’s brother), and their friend Major John Walker (my ancestor, the father of “Chief Jack” Walker).

    The two sides kept fighting each other for decades, and there is still a lot of hatred against Treaty Party descendants in Oklahoma these days.

    During the Civil War the Treaty Party sided with the South, and the Anti-Treaty Party with the North.

    Stand Waite essentially took over control of the Cherokee Nation for the South, and then fought in some battles in western Arkansas (Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove).

    General Waite was the last Confederate General to surrender his sword.

    Until recently there was a school in the Cherokee part of Oklahoma named after General Waite. The school changed its name recently. Based on the strong anti-black racism of the leaders of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, I suspect making black students feel better was just an excuse to remove the name of the Treaty Party leader.

    • Replies: @okie28
  76. Darnell says:

    Just out of curiosity, how big a check would white people have to write before we could declare, “There, we’re square now”?

    If every black person in America got a million dollar check, could we then say, “That’s it! No more affirmative action in schools or jobs, no more whining or bellyaching. You’ve been paid in full, now not a penny more?”

    • Replies: @Anon
  77. Anon7 says:

    Nobody has seen the elephant in the room:

    “… minority groups that have faced discrimination should be financially compensated by the federal government. “

    This pretty much throws the door wide open. Are all women to be compensated, then? You know, because of, well, human history?

  78. Wilkey says:

    “What almost nobody realizes about affirmative action is that there isn’t as much race fraud as you’d expect … because modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race.)”

    Except that there should be fraud – massive amounts of it. The Right needs to start believing in civil disobedience. It took me a few years to realize that I should pretty much lie on any form I’m asked to fill out about any question no one has any right to ask. That goes double anytime my answer will be used to harm me and help someone else.

    Civil disobedience can easily be used to destroy affirmative action, because people won’t tolerate what the government would have to do to protect a.a.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  79. Anon7 says:
    @Anon7

    And, is it fair to tax people who have been wronged to repay people who have been wronged? That’s crazy.

    So, we can’t tax native americans to pay black people, and we can’t tax hispanics to pay gays, and so on.

    Who then will we tax? I think we know the answer.

  80. okie2 says:

    Paleo,
    Both side had slaves and were planters both back east and in OK I grew up in Tulsa and my elementary school in the little corner of Tulsa that was in Cherokee territory (most of Tulsa was on creek land before allotment) was named after John Ross. They made sure the first line in the bio in the school halls mentioned he was 7/8 white. Despite that and the Watie’s/Ridges being notably full blood, a little study shows their constituency in the tribe was inverse to their blood quanta.

    Getting back to Steve’s point the notably non native EW proposes this much like Mr Ross rose to prominence in the eastern areas before removal advocating for the full bloods who wanted to stay on their land and turn their back on the white world. The Watie party signed the treaty and took the money and their slaves west still.. Being full blooded meant they didn’t have to virtue signal to get tribal loyalty, they could be planters and hold black slaves just like their neighbors in either state and still be confident they are Indian. While Ross’s stand was high minded it led to the mess of forced relocation, and as you say decades of low level civil war in OK. This sort of of impractical wish casting is behind this particular cry for reparations. Pray it does not lead to the same level of violence.

  81. @Anon7

    Fun fact:

    Some studies claim that the largest group of people benefiting from Affirmative Action has been white women.

    This is why I believe Ms. Warren when she says she didn’t receive any Affirmative Action benefits due to being part Indian. Universities were lining up to hire any woman they could who was remotely qualified. It is a LOT easier to tell that Ms. Warren is female than to tell she has a family history of Indian ancestry.

  82. okie28 says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Paleo,
    Both side had slaves and were planters both back east and in OK I grew up in Tulsa and my elementary school in the little corner of Tulsa that was in Cherokee territory (most of Tulsa was on creek land before allotment) was named after John Ross. They made sure the first line in the bio in the school halls mentioned he was 7/8 white. Despite that and the Watie’s/Ridges being notably full blood, a little study shows their constituency in the tribe was inverse to their blood quanta.

    Getting back to Steve’s point the notably non native EW proposes this much like Mr Ross rose to prominence in the eastern areas before removal advocating for the full bloods who wanted to stay on their land and turn their back on the white world. The Watie party signed the treaty and took the money and their slaves west still.. Being full blooded meant they didn’t have to virtue signal to get tribal loyalty, they could be planters and hold black slaves just like their neighbors in either state and still be confident they are Indian. While Ross’s stand was high minded it led to the mess of forced relocation, and as you say decades of low level civil war in OK. This sort of of impractical wish casting is behind this particular cry for reparations. Pray it does not lead to the same level of violence.

    apologies if this pops up multiple times am having posting issues

  83. okie28 says:

    Paleo,
    Both side had slaves and were planters both back east and in OK I grew up in Tulsa and my elementary school in the little corner of Tulsa that was in Cherokee territory (most of Tulsa was on creek land before allotment) was named after John Ross. They made sure the first line in the bio in the school halls mentioned he was 7/8 white. Despite that and the Watie’s/Ridges being notably full blood, a little study shows their constituency in the tribe was inverse to their blood quanta.

    Getting back to Steve’s point the notably non native EW proposes this much like Mr Ross rose to prominence in the eastern areas before removal advocating for the full bloods who wanted to stay on their land and turn their back on the white world. The Watie party signed the treaty and took the money and their slaves west still.. Being full blooded meant they didn’t have to virtue signal to get tribal loyalty, they could be planters and hold black slaves just like their neighbors in either state and still be confident they are Indian. While Ross’s stand was high minded it led to the mess of forced relocation, and as you say decades of low level civil war in OK. This sort of of impractical wish casting is behind this particular cry for reparations. Pray it does not lead to the same level of violenc

  84. @Wilkey

    I have a very small amount of Native American blood, but I am a member of a tribe. Yes, I am a left-winger, but from what I have seen, Affirmative Action has become a complete crock.

    Some people have criticized me because my children, my brother and I have all gotten some benefits from our small amount of Native American blood.

    Then I saw what people were getting the MOST Affirmative Action benefits:

    1. White women
    2. Middle to upper-class immigrants or children of immigrants from Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa and Asia. I got a minority scholarship once, and I met the others in my area with the same scholarship. Most were from Latin America, and were either pure Spanish or close to pure Spanish.
    3. People from Asia who want to start a business. I mean, at what point in our nation’s history did we discriminate against people from India? And how does that mean that anyone who wanders in from India can get all sorts of minority loans from the SBA, etc.
    4. Non-white children adopted by middle to upper-class white families. Why should a kid adopted from China or Korea, raised by a white family, be eligible for Affirmative Action benefits.

    With all of that going on, I have NO trouble sleeping at night getting Affirmative Action benefits for myself and my children. I am, after all, a member of a federally recognized tribe. My ancestors really did die so that white men could have their land. If someone from Mumbai can get Affirmative Action, why not my family?

    Here is what is really weird. Some of the most intelligent ideas on AA come from Steve.

    Steve suggested we limit AA to descendants of slaves and of American Indians.
    Some people who are in favor of reparations say that instead of money, we should give a special hand up to black folks (and possibly Indians as well).

    Why not give MORE AA benefits, but limit those to descendants of slaves and Indians, and then call that reparations?

    Or would you rather have the brothers from Nigeria getting all the Affirmative Action benefits?

    • Replies: @Hail
    , @Anonymous
  85. @Ray Huffman

    There actually was years ago, but the killer was named Silva-Roque. Doesn’t sound white to me.

    His defense was that he was stupid and crazy, which is kind of hard to argue with.

    Roque’s trial by jury began on August 18, 2003. Defense attorneys argued he was not guilty due to insanity, claiming that he had a diminished IQ and heard relentless voices telling him that Arabs were Satanic and must be killed. Two coworkers testified that Roque was “narrow-minded” and that he hated both immigrants and Arabs. Roque’s defense attorney characterized him as mentally ill, and noted that his mother had twice been hospitalized for schizophrenia, a condition which has been shown to appear in those genetically predisposed to it.[8] On September 30, 2003, he was found guilty of first degree murder, and was sentenced to death nine days later.[8]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Balbir_Singh_Sodhi

    The victim’s brother was killed in California gangland crossfire the next year. Not the luckiest of families. Reminiscent of Neville and Erskine Ebbin of Bermuda, claimed to have been killed by the same taxi driver, carrying the same passenger, a year apart.

    For what it’s worth, that’s a Portuguese name. Here is another Silva Roque:

    http://webtv.un.org/watch/silva-roque-samuel-mozambique-5th-plenary-meeting/4113612409001?lan=arabic

  86. @Paleo Liberal

    The US Constitution specifically lays out treaties with Indian nations.

    Some states, particularly New York, made treaties with the Indian nations directly.

    Now for the ultimate treaty story:

    When Mike Veeck worked for the Detroit Tigers, the team went through an extended slump. An Indian chief said their stadium was cursed as it was built on sacred ground. But he would be happy to perform an exorcism. Veeck went along, though he left town for the weekend, knowing his boss was opposed to the idea. The exorcism took place on an off day at the stadium.

    However, the Lions had called a press conference across the street to display their new uniforms. Bored with this, the reporters discovered the ceremony and rushed over to cover it.

    Veeck was more concerned about getting in trouble with his boss than with getting publicity– his Disco Demolition having kept him out of the majors for a decade– and would rather not have had it appear in the news. He had a chat with the chief.

    Turns out the tribe’s treaty with the US allowed the chief to nix any press coverage of religious ceremonies.

  87. Hail says: • Website
    @Paleo Liberal

    I have a very small amount of Native American blood, but I am a member of a tribe

    Can you give us an idea of what % Amerind you are? Is it paper-genealogy only, or have you also by now done a 23andMe?

  88. Anon1 says:
    @Anon

    Yes. That’s why Whites pretend to be Native.

  89. inertial says:
    @miss marple

    Six “turban guys” were fatally shot by a white loon in 2012. No one knows for sure why he did it but it’s quite possible that he mistook them for Muslims.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Sikh_temple_shooting

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  90. Are South Asians entitled to reparations? Given Columbus thought he would be oppressing them

  91. Hank Yobo says:
    @Cloudbuster

    As for American Indians, nobody discriminates against them. They’re where they are because of their own decisions and because the government has “helped” them to death.

    Don’t you think that Jefferson and Jackson had a great deal to do with placing some tribes “where they are” and therefore causing a meltdown in Native society? The “Trail of Tears” is aptly named because of the forced removal of Eastern and Southern Amerindian communities from their homelands (or, at least what was left of them). Their subsequent exile and struggle for survival in alien lands west of the Mississippi is not a pretty story. Indeed, they are America’s own Kulaks with various presidents foreshadowing the role of Stalin. The blight of slavery was tame by comparison.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    , @Wilkey
  92. @GermanReader2

    Sounds like I’m not the only one familiar with Chris Rock’s old routines.

  93. Cato says:
    @Reactionary Utopian

    The amount of Colt 45 malt liquor that can be purchased thereby is left as an exercise for the reader.

    Ah, so many other ways to spend that $2367 — dice games, rims, weaves for the girlfriend(s), high-end vodka, maybe a Glock. Definitely voting for this ho.

  94. @JimDandy

    the ultimate Jewish dilemma

    Free ham.

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
  95. Anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan

    The value of all the land in the lower 48 states has been estimated at $23 trillion.

    What is the combined federal, state, and municipal debt?

  96. Anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    I am (partly) of Irish descent.

    The Irish owe reparations to the English and Scots Irish for slaughtering them in the imperial war euphemistically referred to as the American Civil War.

  97. Anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:

    (What almost nobody realizes about affirmative action is that there isn’t as much race fraud as you’d expect … because modern white people, Warren excepted, are pretty honorable about race.)

    What is “honorable” about colluding in a system that discrimates against White core Americans?

    Besides, you guys are in denial about Elizabeth Warren. She is in fact of American Indian ancestry and has the DNA to prove it.

    • Replies: @blahbahblah
  98. Anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    What is the “root of every issue”? I am interested in explanatory theories so want to understand precisely what you mean.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  99. Anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon7

    This pretty much throws the door wide open. Are all women to be compensated, then? You know, because of, well, human history?

    What about men who have been killed in wars and other violence?

  100. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anon7

    “… minority groups that have faced discrimination should be financially compensated by the federal government. “

    This pretty much throws the door wide open. Are all women to be compensated, then? You know, because of, well, human history?

    Of course.

    Every non-white person will get reparations because they’ve been victims of institutionalised White Racism. That obviously includes Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Hispanics. And Philippinos and Hawaiians, victims of white racist colonialism. And Mexicans, because California was stolen from them.

    And naturally there must be reparations for centuries of evil white sexism, homophobia and transphobia. So all women, all homosexuals and all trans people must obviously receive reparations.

    That’s how the Coalition of the Fringes works. Everyone gets spoils.

    It doesn’t matter that the promised reparations will never be paid. That will be blamed on white racists. If it never gets paid it can be made into an election issue every election cycle.

  101. @inertial

    Wade Michael Page, 40, seemed like an ordinary middle-class Joe until he went in the service, but alcoholism and related problems ended his military career and sent him on a downward spiral. He embraced a white supremacist group, the Hammerskins, and found the only real bonding of his life with them and related white power bands. When it was discovered he’d had a two-year affair with a Native American woman, the neo-Nazis made it clear he was no longer one of them. Some theorize this is what drove him to mass murder people of color.

    Twice in the week before the cowardly slaughter, Page had visited the temple and been warmly welcomed, and given a tour of the building. Only later would it become apparent he was reconnoitering his chosen killing ground.

    https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/shot-15-times-the-brian-murphy-story

    • Replies: @Anon
  102. @Anonymous

    I hope you’re not listening to Razib on this because he’s (sadly because I like him) completely full of shit. And the problem with what Razib has said is that he completely ignores the story Warren has said about her ancestry… and there is absolutely zero chance that the stories she has said about her ancestry are true.

  103. MBlanc46 says:

    Fauxcahontas sure is the gift that keeps on giving.

  104. anon[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    They will feel cheated and be agitated no matter what we do.

  105. RobRich says: • Website
    @JimDandy

    The Libertarians have been focused on getting Native lands back/compensation since 1971, and formed coalitions that got results and won cases. Native Americans love the Libertarians, and are big voters for libertarian candidates.

    Warren here is trial ballooning an attempt by the far-left to block the Libertarians… and so screw the Native Americans–again.

  106. @Anon

    Okay, but it has to begin with end of all future immigration as it was mass immigration that led to the ‘genocide’ of the Indians. Onrush of Diversity led to demise of Indigeneity.

    This is precisely why American Indians are out of fashion.

    The Jewish immigration uber alles narrative doesn’t hold up to well if one starts thinking to clearly about precisely what was the white man’s wrong done to the Indians.

    Nope better to drag in utterly foreign peoples–e.g. muslims–and then whine that some pickup driving peasant looking at them sideways in the airport is a great crisis in our national life.

    Displacing natives with interloping whiny minorities is who we are!

    • Replies: @Anon
  107. @Anon1

    Natives already get reparations. Casinos, federal funding for reservations, Bureau of Indian Affairs, affirmative action, etc.

    Yes they do.

    But in fairness, the native indians are the one people where you can actually make a decent case for reparations. They are the one people who actually lostsomething in the white settlement of America–they lost their land, their self-determination, their nations.

    Sure they gained tremendously as well–basically white technology, which they were at least a good 3000-5000 years from developing on their own. But having your own land for your descendants–even if you’re continually battling for it with distant relatives–is no small thing.

    In contrast all the other minoritarian whining is complete crap. All the other minorities are actually big winners in the white settlement of America. Much better opportunities than in their native lands, which is why people keep trying to come. And no peoples are bigger beneficiaries of what whites created in America, than the core of the coalition of the fringes–the Jews and blacks.

  108. @Hank Yobo

    I think it’s irrelevant to today. Don’t want to be an impoverished Indian stuck in the dysfunctional government-supported reservation system? Move off the reservation, get a job and stop complaining.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  109. @Paleo Liberal

    Compare that to Barry Bonds and the Mets. Barry Bonds doesn’t get reparations from the Mets, he gets an annual check.

    I think you mean Bobby Bonilla

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  110. @Macumazahn

    Free ham is not a dilemma . Take it and sell it to gentiles. (Actually, not permitted halachically as an ongoing business, but probably OK as a one off.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
  111. Wilkey says:
    @Hank Yobo

    Don’t you think that Jefferson and Jackson had a great deal to do with placing some tribes “where they are” and therefore causing a meltdown in Native society?

    Well then that’s just another argument against immigration, isn’t it? Can’t move people from the land they’re accustomed to some different piece of land.

    Some Indian reservations are well outside the area where the tribes initially lived. But the tribes on reservations in Minnesota and the Dakotas aren’t far removed, if at all, from their original haunts. How do they do in comparison? My suspicion is that they do no better.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  112. Paul says:

    My grandfather said that when he was young in Boston the Irish were discriminated against. Just how many people in this country can get on the reparations bandwagon and for how much money are taxpayers going to get stuck?

    • Replies: @Paul
  113. @Anonymous

    First of all, I can’t spell, so it is not like “flower.” It is like “flour.” But not even that. It is like the dough in an Italian bakery.

    After a little while frequenting the ethnic shops in the Northeast USA, as a transplant, I figured out that all the baked goods Italian Americans here rave about are made from the same dough. It’s good, but I can pick it out in just about everything they bake.

    (Furthermore, being married to an Eastern European, who is a phenomenal cook, I have observed that they all call the same dishes by their different names in their own languages, and they claim them as their own. The Jews do this. Jewish food is Eastern European food, but they proudly claim it as their own. No fault, because everybody does this. Matzo ball soup has a Hungarian name, and my wife makes it. It is not exclusively Jewish, any more than I am a cowboy because I am an American from the West.)

    So, roots of things are important to discover, but you have to dig. Here on our favorite blog, the subjects all arise from envy of the White Man. Why? Because European men made the world as we know it and as all people around the world know it. The past half-millennium has been the product of a European revolution, and it ranks as the most important part of human history. Nothing before even comes close.

    Everybody wants what we have. And what we have is what we are. They want to be us.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anon
    , @Hunsdon
  114. Paul says:
    @Paul

    Perhaps to get reparations you will need to be a “person of color.”

    Black, being the absence of color, it is not clear why black people should be designated as “persons of color.”

    On the other hand, white is all the colors combined.

  115. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Matzoh ball soup is perhaps a bad example because matzohs are a more or less exclusively Jewish food (although other cultures have similar water crackers). However, knoedel (bread dumplings) are fairly common German/ E. European items and the Yiddish word for matzoh ball is based on knoedel. The difference being that knoedel are made from stale bread instead of matzoh (same idea really).

    Nowadays Jews that have a hankering for date spread or Israeli couscous or some Israeli product can import it to some extent but in the old days you either ate what was locally available (the same foods that were available to everyone else) or else you starved. Jewish cuisine everywhere is therefore a subset of the local diet – there are certain foods that are EXCLUDED because of the kosher laws but very little is added or unique. This is true no only of Jewish food but also Jewish arts, crafts, architecture and even genetics. Jews always strongly reflect the local culture but because of the narcissism of small differences, both sides always deny that they are anything like each other.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  116. Hank Yobo says:
    @Wilkey

    Apples. Oranges. Read Vick, “Cherokee Adaption to the Landscape of the West,” American Indian Quarterly, (2011): 394-417, for more about deportees living in the foreign West. Also, those living “on reservations in Minnesota and the Dakotas” suffered privations at the hands of government contractors who chose to maximize profits instead of providing the requisite food and medicine. Sound familiar? The U. S. government’s aim was to break the Amerindian’s independence and way of life. Mission accomplished. Manifest Destiny came at the expense of the continent’s Indigenous peoples.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  117. Jewish cuisine everywhere is therefore a subset of the local diet – there are certain foods that are EXCLUDED because of the kosher laws but very little is added or unique.

    This is especially so in Hungarian cooking with its ubiquitous use of sour cream in meat/poultry dishes

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Jack D
  118. Hank Yobo says:
    @Cloudbuster

    “Move!” seems to be the official solution for America’s Native people since 1783. Not very imaginative. Is the U. S. government a major shareholder in Atlas Van Lines?

    • Replies: @Wilkey
  119. @AnotherDad

    Yep. Every word. American Blacks (those truly descended from slaves) have got be the luckiest descendants in the entire history of the world. Bar none. (((The special people))) have also made out like bandits here.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  120. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    I propose giving the Indians the entire Boston to Richmond Va stretch from the ocean to 200 miles west. Remove all the Whites. Leave all the blacks Asians and Hispanics Arabs etc.

  121. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hank Yobo

    Ummm that’s something taught in every American school private and public starting in 4 th grade.

    Invaders came and conquered. History of the world.

  122. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Having your own land for your descendants? I think the average American moves 7 times in their adult life And property tax increase upon change of title plus inheritance taxes federal and in some states means we can’t even leave an ordinary little 1,800 sq ft house to our children because of the inheritance tax plus massive increase in property tax.

    Do you live in a house or even the town county or state your grandparents or parents lived in? If you do it’s unusual except in the south east.

  123. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kaganovitch

    It’s not just milk and meat mixed in one dish Can’t have them in the same meal at all must be 6 hours apart. Then there’s the milk and meat separate dishes pots and pans knives cooking utensils sponges dish clothes and dish cloths. And of course the double sink one for milk and one for meat dishes pots and

    The wealthy chabads Hasidism and others even have separate cabinets and dishwashers

    It’s a big social climbing prestige thing to have all that expensive stuff. Who are we goyim to sneer at those expensive set ups?

    We’ve expanded the kitchens into the living room and installed $8,000 granite soapstone etc countertops plus $20, 000 worth of cabinets etc. mean while the rest of the house is furnished with IKEA and living spaces .

    Who knew kitchen countertops would eve be a status symbol.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  124. Jack D says:
    @Kaganovitch

    Not to mention pork.

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
  125. Al D says:

    This is more proof that Warren (and almost everyone else) knows nothing about “American Indians”. American Indian Nations are not interested in reparations. They are interested in real sovereignty and in the United States honoring its treaties with them.
    Treaties are supposedly the Supreme Law of the Land (United States Constitution, Article VI, Clause 2). The treaties with the tribes were made, sometimes to settle up after wars but not always, to establish boundaries of Indian lands and secure title to the relinquished land. The compensations owed are not “reparations” but obligations freely assumed by the US government at the time in exchange for land and other concessions. Given the history of coercion, cherry-picking of “leaders” to represent tribes, and bribery in these “negotiations”, the Indian Nations can hardly be blamed for the current state of “Indian Affairs”. The US has fostered dependency in the hope that the natives would assimilate and disappear as Nations. Yet they exist to this day and will not be bought off with “reparations”.
    Restoration of their sovereignty means recognition that the US claims to their lands are based on a false premise. One of the foundations of US Indian Law is that the US has plenary powers over its claimed boundaries based on the Doctrine of Discovery (Johnson v. M’intosh, 1823). (The US does not make a legal claim to land based on a so- called “right of conquest”.) The Doctrine of Discovery states basically that a Christian Nation can claim lands belonging to non-Christian Nations. This is odd since the US Constitution does not allow the establishment of a state religion. However Christian the Country may be (or have been) culturally, legally it was not and is not Christian. Because of this, lands recognized as belonging to Indians were held in “trust” by the Federal Government. But US plenary power over Indian land also made possible the Dawes and Curtis Acts which swept away treaties and permitted the acquisition (theft?) of tens of millions of acres of land. That was quite a breach of trust, wasn’t it?
    They cannot buy or sell their remaining lands without Federal consent. They cannot enforce laws against non-Indians on their own territory. Only the Feds have this authority. They do not have control over their own natural resources, but the Feds do. They are supposed to get fair compensation for access (by miners, drillers, etc.) to their natural resources but history has shown (Cobell v. Salazar) that it’s not what it’s supposed to be.
    Honoring the Treaties is the right thing to do and is necessary for the United States to retain its honor as a country. Restoration of Indian Nations’ full sovereignty on their own lands would allow each Nation to re-establish a relationship with the US and end the indeterminate current state of affairs and give them a chance to be truly independent and free.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    , @Anon
    , @Anon
  126. @Jack D

    True, but that was common to every jewish adaptation of European cuisine. I don’t know if Polish cuisine(such as it is) made less use of pork than Hungarian. The rest of Polish cuisine was fair game, though. There are only a handful of Hungarian meat/poultry dishes that don’t call for sour cream, thus very hard to make Kosher without sacrificing essence.

  127. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    There’s some tricks you can do with the yeast, how long you let it rise. Keeping it over night in the fridge some of the yeast might be descended from a blob of dough a woman brought from Italy 150 years ago Its called a starter. The blob has yeast in it.

    Keep the blob in a bowl not in the fridge. When you want to make bread mix up flour and water mix in a half cup of the blob leave it over night and the yeast in the blob will have grown and expanded into all the dough. Before you shape the dough for baking take a one cup blob of the new dough and add it to the big blob you keep in the bowl. It will last a life time. In the old days you gave a bowl of the yeast blob to your daughters when they moved out to get married or whatever.

    San Francisco special sourdough bread came from France that way, a blob in an immigrants bowl.

    Those old country yeasts in the club give the bread a distinctive taste different from a new package of Flieschman’s yeast.

    Supposedly you can make your own starter. Mix a cup of water couple tablespoons of white sugar. Let it sit around for a couple days. Spores or something in the air will settle in the sugar water and start turning into yeast

    Then mix in more flour and water. Let it sit for a days till it begins to rise like bread dough and smells like yeast. That’s the starter. You can keep it going for years . If you want to.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Jack D
  128. @Anon

    Wow, thanks for the info. My father made his own starter and did what you describe. Kept it going for a few years. He grew up around San Francisco and told me about the sourdough bread. Now my wife and I have a friend there who visits once in a while and always brings a loaf to give us. I’ve made bread a couple of times, even braided it once. It came out surprisingly well, but it was just plain, white bread, a simple recipe.

    • Replies: @Anon
  129. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    It’s a myth that you are really getting the descendants of the yeast from the old days. Wild yeasts and bacteria are everywhere and in a short amount of time the local strains will replace whatever was living in your blob. That’s why San Francisco sourdough bread doesn’t taste the same if you make it in another place. And if grandma brought her blob of dough from the Old Country to SF, in a few weeks she would be baking SF sourdough as the local strains took over.

    • Replies: @Anon
  130. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Darnell

    No, they’d be bitching and complaining again within 20 years. Maybe put it in a standard savings account with 1% or less interest and let them live on that

    Then the aggrieved and oppressed could riot to get interest rates raised and I’d benefit too.

  131. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    It wasn’t my grandma. Your point sounds sensible but why does it taste so different from the blobs that were brought from the eastern United States Italy Austria Ireland to San Francisco ?

    The theory is that the old country yeast preserves it self. Who knows.

    Shoot I’ve no interest in academy awards but messages about who won what has started appearing.

  132. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Here’s a yummy recipe. Make a batch of bread dough. For the last rising form it into balls a bit smaller than ping pong balls. Roll them in butter not margarine. Then roll them in either Parmesan cheese and dried basil or cinnamon sugar.

    Then put them in a round tube pan let them rise again and bake them . Or make a little wreath on a baking sheet Pull the little rolls apart to eat them.

    Or chop in pieces and cook a lot of bacon mix it in the dough form into about 4 inch more or less rectangles. Makes like a bacon sandwich

  133. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Al D

    Oh please they’d starve. Present arrangement is just fine. They can live on the Rez and do whatever or leave and do what the rest of us do.

    At least they’re not agitating and carrying on like the blacks and immigrants do. One good thing about them, on the Rez they have their own police who cooperate with local non Rez authorities. So like Whites they don’t defend Indian criminals like the blacks do.

  134. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Al D

    About not enforcing laws against non Indians on Indian land. Whatever the theory is there is a great deal of cooperation between tribal and local authorities. Indian police may not be able to arrest non Indians but they can and do “detain” them, notify the local sheriff and meet the sheriff at the boundary and turn the detainee over.

    On the local level things work out very well. Lots of non Indian national parks visitors hunters and hikers get treated at the Rez hospitals and medical offices because they’re closest. Fire departments help each other. The different Rezes and the locals have worked it out. What nobody needs is a one size fits all policy and the federal Indian affairs and Nathan Phillips activist types messing around with what works pretty well

    • Replies: @Anon
  135. Wilkey says:
    @Hank Yobo

    Move!” seems to be the official solution for America’s Native people since 1783. Not very imaginative. Is the U. S. government a major shareholder in Atlas Van Lines?

    It’s also good advice for anyone living in a dead-end town, regardless of race or ancestry. For a lot of reasons economic development on reservations is a difficult prospect.

    As for Native American culture itself, much of it is the culture of a hunter-gatherer population. That just doesn’t go well with modernity. You can’t teach people to believe in shamans and then get pissed when they don’t study science or don’t listen to their doctor’s medical advice.

  136. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Wisconsin home of the farmer labor party, settled by German and Scandinavians socialists , one of the most liberal states in the country. And he shot up a Sikh Temple instead of a black rap concert in a high crime Milwaukee area.

    Law enforcement background, deeply cynical, familiar with liberal Alinsky tactics; I’m 99.9999% sure the Hammerskins and their friends are just another FBI SPLC ATF ADL ACLU front group designed to entrap some unfortunate White man the way they entrapped the Weaver family.

    And it worked.

    FBI ADL SPLC AJC ACLU do not INFILTRATE White power groups.

    FBI ADL SPLC AJC ACLU
    CREATE those groups specifically to make Whites look bad

    There may have been some authentic White power groups but after the Oklahoma City bombing They disappeared.

    ATF spent 2 years harassing Randy Weaver to join a non existent White power group. They got him on modifying a shot gun. I think the illegal modification involved moving some screws. ATF has more persnickety arcane laws than the IRS.

    Black Israelites are a lot more than obnoxious street preachers they’ve murdered more than 20 people in different states that are known victims. I’m sure no federal agency has under covers with them. After all, most black Israelite victims are Whites the feds want gone.

    But they can send their operatives to some little Wisconsin town to create the Hammer-skins to entrap some alcoholic idiot loser.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  137. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    Most of the Jews of E. Europe were as poor as church mice (you should forgive the example) but they kept kosher. They didn’t need two dishwashers because they didn’t have any dishwasher. Instead of the one dented, patched up pot that other poor people owned, they owned TWO dented patched up pots.

    Wealthy Hasidim have a lot of stuff because wealthy people always have a lot of stuff in order to signal their status. What’s the point of having all that money if you can’t use it to signal your status? The only thing that differs is what signals status in your subculture. In the suburbs you get a Range Rover, among the Hasidim you get a really nice fur hat.

    You are forgetting Passover. In addition to the above, you also need two more sets of everything for Passover.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  138. Jack D says:
    @Kaganovitch

    The Torah offers the answer (as always):

    “You must not eat flesh torn by beasts in the field [i.e. non-kosher meat]; you shall cast it to the dogs.”

    Exodus 22:30

    Feed the free ham to your dog.

    • LOL: Kaganovitch
  139. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    Whenever someone in your own group does something despicable, it’s never representative of your group. It’s either entrapment or a false flag operation. That’s what the Arabs said about 9/11 too. Sometimes you just have to accept ownership and take the bad with the good. The Left has no problem with Antifa – they don’t say that Antifas are really FBI agents or that the FBI convinces Antifa to go around hitting people with bike locks.

    Hammerskins and Wade Page are just a logical (but slightly more extreme) extension of what some people are saying here – if you can’t accept where your ideology leads, then maybe you need to rethink your ideology and not pretend that your extremists are really all FBI agents. If you say “they all have to go back”, then why not in boxes? The most important thing is that the Hammerskins agree with you – they all have to go – whether they are dead or alive is just a detail.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Johann Ricke
  140. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Then there’s the Indian money. I don’t know the official term but they get it no matter where they live or how much money they make.
    It’s s a nice supplement to their salaries

    And most of the west of the Mississippi reservations are in areas where the only busines is agriculture. The small medium farms disappeared. It’s now big ag, big machines and Mexican illegal farm workers. Other than being a farm machinery mechanic there’s not much future for Whites and Indians but to leave.

  141. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I know how it works. I’m very familiar with the anti Whites who work in law enforcement.

    No real White power advicate would go after Sikh immigrants or black churches or raucous black kids or a parolee halfway house full of blacks.

    A real White power advocate would go after our real enemies. Peace and love let’s not fight

  142. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I know that, but I live near a major neighborhood of chabads. They’re definitely not poor. And like everybody else, the home status status symbol has shifted from expensive furniture to expensive kitchens. It maintains their separation it’s their thing they like it. . I

    There are plenty of people in Silicon Valley who make a good living installing $100,000 and more kitchens for the tech executives. Maybe we White Americans can’t get jobs in the tech industry we created, but we can survive

  143. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Everybody’s into kitchens these days. Pretty soon the living room will be just a couch and TV crammed into the kitchen. The contractors Lowe’s Home Depot are making a fortune. And the high end things are unbelievable.

    Last time I spoke with the family friend who does the SV kitchens he was ripping out the granite countertops which are out of style and installing soapstone whatever that is. Right now stark white cabinets are in style but in a few years wood will come back and the ultra rich will rip out the old cabinets and install new.

    There’s an English company that makes kitchen cabinets covered with so many pillars corbels moldings Corinthian and ionic capitals for the pillars acanthus leaves all over it looks like the grand duke’s library.

    There’s a German company makes complete kitchens to order they send all over the world.

    There’s a French stove that costs $50,00 to $70,000. It’s about 8 feet long and wide as a double bed. Comes in 3 colors or for an extra fee they can spray it another color.

    All sorts of useful things if you’re cooking in an army or college cafeteria. Like electric and gas burners. Even a special electric burner for your 20 gallon stock pot. But some people have the money and put them in home kitchens, getting to be common in Bel Air

    French and German women used to pride themselves at turning out delicious food in shabby kitchens but with very high end utensils knives and pots and pans.

    To each his own.

  144. Hunsdon says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    That’s funny! I always liked reading about the Hudson Bay Company.

  145. Hunsdon says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    In Spain it is called paella. In Italy it is pilaf. In the Balkans, Ukraine, and Russia, it is plov. In Afghanistan, it is polar, and no matter where it is, it is rice and a local protein.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  146. Anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    2. Middle to upper-class immigrants or children of immigrants from Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa and Asia. I got a minority scholarship once, and I met the others in my area with the same scholarship. Most were from Latin America, and were either pure Spanish or close to pure Spanish.

    Were any Jewish?

    I have NO trouble sleeping at night getting Affirmative Action benefits for myself and my children. I am, after all, a member of a federally recognized tribe. My ancestors really did die so that white men could have their land.

    How did your ancestors die exactly? How does any of this justify your receiving affirmative action?

    Why not give MORE AA benefits, but limit those to descendants of slaves and Indians, and then call that reparations?

    Because no living group in the United States has benefited more from slavery than the descendants of slaves.

    How about we compensate Whites for Black violence and crime?

  147. Anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hank Yobo

    The U. S. government’s aim was to break the Amerindian’s independence and way of life.

    The U.S. government has had the same aim with respect to White Southerners. And it has slaughtered more White Southerners than Indians.

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
  148. Anonymous[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @The preferred nomenclature is...

    Yep. Every word. American Blacks (those truly descended from slaves) have got be the luckiest descendants in the entire history of the world. Bar none.

    What is your reasoning?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  149. @Hunsdon

    In Spain it is called paella. In Italy it is pilaf. In the Balkans, Ukraine, and Russia, it is plov. In Afghanistan, it is polar, and no matter where it is, it is rice and a local protein.

    That’s Shakespearian.

    ‘Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
    Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
    What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
    Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
    Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
    What’s in a name? that which we call a paella
    By any other name would taste as good;

    So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,
    Retain that dear perfection which he owes
    Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
    And for that name which is no part of thee
    Take all myself.

    It appears that ethnic cuisine truly is a social construct.

  150. @Jack D

    Feed the free ham to your dog.

    Seems like a waste of good ham that the dog wouldn’t appreciate anyway. Better to give the ham away to a friendly gentile neighbor and have him owe you a favor.

  151. @Jack D

    Hammerskins and Wade Page are just a logical (but slightly more extreme) extension of what some people are saying here – if you can’t accept where your ideology leads, then maybe you need to rethink your ideology and not pretend that your extremists are really all FBI agents. If you say “they all have to go back”, then why not in boxes? The most important thing is that the Hammerskins agree with you – they all have to go – whether they are dead or alive is just a detail.

    My impression is that the white average supremacist/neo-Nazi is way too squeamish to proceed to this Final Step. They’re nattering on about how the Israelis’ treatment of the Palestinians is another Holocaust, when they presumably know what a real Holocaust looks like. Many of these are people who get squeamish about hunters taking down large predators or herbivores. They are Eloi play-acting at being Morlocks.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  152. Hank Yobo says:
    @Anonymous

    Of course this was after presidents from the South, Jefferson and Jackson, began their campaigns to destroy Native societies east of the Mississippi. Southern Whites cannot be absolved so easily for their transgressions against the Amerindians. They too, not just their political leaders, were a part of the problem.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  153. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @AnotherDad

    This is precisely why American Indians are out of fashion.

    Maybe it would have been better if French-America had prevailed over Anglo-America.
    Even though the French also invaded and colonized, their policy was more about finding a middle ground with the natives and seeking cultural fusion with them.

    Maybe the French-American narrative would have been more sensitive to the Indian POV. There would have been the glorious narrative of French colonization and expansion but also the Indian perspective that would have been more ambiguous about immigration.

    In contrast, Anglo policy was near-total removal of the Indians. So, the narrative became conquest and immigration are good. So, it became all about New People replacing the previous people than about New people making peace with existing people and arriving at some compromise and fusion. Indian POV got buried. At most Indians were romanticized as proud warriors, but they were regarded as ghosts of the past with no relevance in the present.
    But Indians might have been more prominent in French-America, and their voices might have counted for more. And it probably would have been against endless immigration. Different template from the Anglo-American one.

  154. Jack D says:
    @Johann Ricke

    The Nazis didn’t arrive at the Final Solution on the very first day. You get there gradually when all the other options have failed. And Hitler was a vegetarian.

  155. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hank Yobo

    Of course this was after presidents from the South, Jefferson and Jackson, began their campaigns to destroy Native societies east of the Mississippi. Southern Whites cannot be absolved so easily for their transgressions against the Amerindians.

    You overstate your case. Indians were respected if they were peaceful. Many assimilated into American society.

    The real damage to Indians came from the Union Army after the Civil War.

  156. @Jack D

    Feed the free ham to your dog.

    There are also those who, because they genuinely like pork products, observe kashrut only on the High Holy Days or for hours at a stretch.

  157. @Anonymous

    What is your reasoning?

    Anon, the idea here is “assuming your race held constant”. There’s no doubt American blacks would be better off being Bill Gates. The point is “as blacks”.

    By that standard the reasoning is simple: Look at the statistics on income, education, health, life expectancy, etc. and blacks in America are overwhelmingly better off than blacks in West Africa.

    You can do the same for me, and i’m modestly better off economically than the alternative-history-me would be in Ireland, England, Germany–maybe 20%–and only trivially in terms of life expectancy.

    For blacks they are better off by 20-40x in PPP income, and significantly better off in almost everything else as well. The only caveat is homicide, black brought the violence with them and here their thugs have guns.

    Bottom line: Their ancestors’ slavery was a huge benefit to them in moving them to a white nation where they can be oppressed by the white man.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  158. Anonymous[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Bottom line: Their ancestors’ slavery was a huge benefit to them in moving them to a white nation where they can be oppressed by the white man.

    Thank you for the reply. How did the welfare of their slave ancestors compare to the welfare they would have experienced had they remained in Africa?

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Hundreds of POWs may have been left to die in Vietnam, abandoned by their government—and our media.