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With Ta-Nehisi Coates calling our attention in The Atlantic to the “eldritch energies” of Donald Trump’s “glowing amulet” of whiteness, I am reminded of the black sheep of television’s Cleaver family, Leave It to Beaver’s Uncle Eldritch Cleaver, and his entrepreneurial energies in the menswear industry, Cleavers:

 
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  1. nebulafox says:

    Leave It To Cleaver.

    Read More
    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Good one!

    OT: Looks like NBC is retconning the Menendez Brothers: https://www.nbc.com/law-and-order-true-crime-menendez?nbc=1

    There is no Truth but the Current Truth.
    , @Neoconned
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph

    So apparently "gayface" is real. An AI can apparently tell the difference.

    I wonder if Coates has it. Didnt he demand granola as part of his payment package?
    , @Father O'Hara
    I guess he'd be a good match for Beaver Cleaver.
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  2. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    Ohhhhh, so that is why rappers wear their pants low.

    More space for their dongs.

    Read More
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  3. newrouter says:

    muh richard

    Read More
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  4. newrouter says:

    “Eldritch Cleaver’s Energies”

    Mr. Sailer: finding obscure parts of history and giving them needed attention.

    Read More
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  5. this is great–love the product

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  6. Although negro inventors are few,
    It’s astonishing what they can do.
    The banjo is Black.
    And don’t forget crack
    In the Cleavers exposed to our view.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    yeah I wasted several hours once on the we wuz banjo kangs BS,
    , @Anonymous
    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today. I have a banjo, actually a couple, and blacks I've talked to about it have no problem with whites playing it but usually look askance at being asked whether they have ever played or thought about playing one.

    Of course, almost all banjo today is either heard in hardcore bluegrass music or the occasional "old timey" tendency in what's left of folk music (which isn't much beyond small clumpings of old former card carrying CPUSA/IWW types and hefty butch lesbians) or the occasional "Americana" or "alt country" act using them, even there they are scarce. Dolly Parton and Steve Martin still plunk them as part of their stage shows, and Bela' Fleck is making a living as the modern Eddie Peabody of sorts. But as compared to electric guitar, acoustic guitar, etc, it's truly miniscule. These musical environments do not appeal that much to blacks (although the right black performer could come in and clean up insofar as these audiences tend to be liberal or, in the case of bluegrass, if not liberal, Respectable Conservative).

    I suppose there are a few dixieland revival trad-jazz bands with a four string banjo as well, but again, although the early dixieleand bands were largely blacks, black jazz musicians since the bop era have typically regarded dixieland as something to avoid, being in their minds Stepin Fetchit and an embarrassment of sorts when played today.
    , @SteveRogers42
    Don't forget The Old Negro Space Program!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6xJzAYYrX8
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  7. @nebulafox
    Leave It To Cleaver.

    Good one!

    OT: Looks like NBC is retconning the Menendez Brothers: https://www.nbc.com/law-and-order-true-crime-menendez?nbc=1

    There is no Truth but the Current Truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Someone inform Dick Wolf it was the other brothers: Danny and Jose Menendez, Jr. Duh.
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  8. snorlax says:

    But how does this all tie in with My Beautiful Laundrette?

    Read More
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  9. “A codpiece (from Middle English: cod, meaning “scrotum”) is a covering flap or pouch that attaches to the front of the crotch of men’s trousers and usually accentuates the genital area. It was held closed by string ties, buttons, or other methods. It was an important item of European clothing in the 15th and 16th centuries…”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codpiece

    Cultural appropriation!

    Read More
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  10. Seems to me, Mr. Cleaver stole this idea from William Tenn’s short story, “The Masculinist Revolt”, which I first ran across in a 1965 issue of The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction. The story’s jumping off point is the reintroduction of codpieces as a male fashion accessory.

    Read More
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  11. Lugash says:

    If there was ever someone who needed his penis confined, it was Cleaver.

    Read More
    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Marty
    No, it was that recent dude in Tennessee.
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  12. Neoconned says:
    @nebulafox
    Leave It To Cleaver.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph

    So apparently “gayface” is real. An AI can apparently tell the difference.

    I wonder if Coates has it. Didnt he demand granola as part of his payment package?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Before getting too excited about the results: "could correctly distinguish between gay and straight men 81% of the time, and 74% for women" realize that gays are approximately 4% in the US so just always guessing straight would have an accuracy of 96%.
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  13. Sunbeam says:

    Reading that NY Times article:

    “”My design has a tremendous future,” he said, ”both artistically and commercially, because not just the intellect — the head and face — is honored. The other half of man’s identity, the sex organs, is, too.””

    Out of curiosity how many here think of their sexual organs as being key to their identity? There really isn’t a right or wrong answer (though there may be a useful one in certain situations like outbreeding those b#st#$%ds up the valley or creating the industrial revolution), but how many here think this way?

    Not like I want to cut my junk off, but if some odd occurrence happened to the family jewels I don’t think it would affect my conception of myself at all.

    Of course I don’t want to find out for sure.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    I've never really understood the concept of "identity," so I can't answer. If it's simply a matter of what I believe makes up my selfhood, then no, I don't think I'd be asking "Who am I?" in crisis mode should I lose my junk.

    But my junk is important, both on a day-to-day scheduling basis and on a subconscious basis. I can't be the only one who reflexively checks there every morning and in times of danger and uncertainty.
    , @(((Owen)))

    Out of curiosity how many here think of their sexual organs as being key to their identity?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_nZh8x_Uo?t=1m10
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  14. Marty says:
    @Lugash
    If there was ever someone who needed his penis confined, it was Cleaver.

    No, it was that recent dude in Tennessee.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Cleaver was a known rapist.
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  15. SND says:

    I remember Cleavers well from when Eldridge publicized them, but was reminded of them by G. W. Bush’s “modified Cleaver” outfit at the Mission Accomplished ceremony.

    Back in ’68 I attended what was styled as the “Yippie Convention” in Berkeley held in preparation for disrupting the Democratic National Convention in Chicago later that year. It was hosted by Jerry Rubin & Eldridge Cleaver. Jerry got up to speak and outraged the audience by reading a long, boring self-congratulatory screed. People started to yell at Jerry to “shut up.” Meanwhile, Rubin had worked his hippy drug magic by getting Eldridge extremely stoned. Cleaver stood up & began to speak incoherently. A woman heckled him from the audience. Cleaver became enraged and chanted repeatedly “Baby, I got what you need right here!” This was, of course, right at the beginning of what became known as the “women’s movement.” It was all very embarrassing and the “Yippie Convention” broke up in an uproar.

    Moral of story: Eldridge has always been obsessed by “muh dick!” After all Soul On Ice was about rape. “Cleavers,” the fashion ploy, was an extension of that obsession.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Great to have a report from a (repentant?) participant in the Cultural Revolution.
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  16. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    We need to get away from ‘cool’ which has degenerated into ‘fool’.

    The new-cool must be ‘real’. That should be the highest compliment. That something is real and true.

    I mean stuff like this(below) just gotta go.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sexy-Mens-Adjustable-Tie-Up-Penis-Pouch-Underwear-For-Him-Pants-Sheath-Cover-/232190327287

    https://www.caprishop.com/en/penis-tie-p-4352.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Black people are way ahead of you. It's all about Real Talk and "Com'on, be real!"

    There is (or was) a talk show called the Real. Which always made me ask "the real what?" when I heard it. I assume the show is (or was) for black women. They'd know what the title is getting at with its reference to realness.
    , @Stealth

    That something is real and true.
     
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trill
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  17. Some news stories come with a ready-made punch line . . .

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  18. his entrepreneurial energies in the menswear industry

    Nice pic. Looks like his err.. front bottom had an accident.

    Here’s the pitch:

    Now check it, brotha. These here panta-lownays already come broken in by some stone cold muthas. Sure, you could pay only ten dollas fo’ off-the-rack chump duds, but look here—these come pre-pissed and pre-sharted. The whole hood gonna know you be cuttin’ loose all night every night.

    Read More
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  19. Eldritch was right about this.

    But Scotsmen devised the best solution long ago.

    Read More
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  20. Mr. Anon says:

    Free Willie

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  21. guest says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    Good one!

    OT: Looks like NBC is retconning the Menendez Brothers: https://www.nbc.com/law-and-order-true-crime-menendez?nbc=1

    There is no Truth but the Current Truth.

    Someone inform Dick Wolf it was the other brothers: Danny and Jose Menendez, Jr. Duh.

    Read More
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  22. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Although negro inventors are few,
    It's astonishing what they can do.
    The banjo is Black.
    And don't forget crack
    In the Cleavers exposed to our view.

    yeah I wasted several hours once on the we wuz banjo kangs BS,

    Read More
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  23. I’m old enough to remember how seriously the Eastern establishment press took Mr. Cleaver and his codpiece in the early ’70s. You could almost hear the vertical forefinger go up under the nose, followed by indulgent, sarcasm-free “hmmm…’ With hysterically overpraised “Soul on Ice,” he was the Teabag Coates of his generation. Media was astounded a black with his background wrote prose that read like that of a bookish Jew who headed home to Montauk every night.

    Hmmm… Indeed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "He was the Teabag Coates of his generation"

    In the sense of being taken far more seriously than he should've been, yes. But Cleaver was a different beast (and I use that term conscientiously). He had "street cred," which Tennessee Coates shall never possess. He was also transgressive. This was a guy committed to racio-political rape. Though that may have been a post hoc rationalization for what lots of black rapists do: that is, target white women. And he went to prison, man. Can you dig it?

    Coates couldn't buy that kind of...what do they call it? Frisson? Pure, unadulterated anti-Whitey. Or so they thought. I don't really know the whole story, aside from the fact that he actually was a felon.

    This attitude of white goodthinker celebration of black transgressiveness is narrated well by Tom Wolfe in his article Radical Chic, about Leonard Bernstein and the Black Panthers.

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  24. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I thought the “cod” in codpiece stood for cash-on-delivery.

    Read More
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  25. @nebulafox
    Leave It To Cleaver.

    I guess he’d be a good match for Beaver Cleaver.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CK
    The codpiece holds in the beaver cleaver. But you already knew that.
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  26. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Although negro inventors are few,
    It's astonishing what they can do.
    The banjo is Black.
    And don't forget crack
    In the Cleavers exposed to our view.

    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today. I have a banjo, actually a couple, and blacks I’ve talked to about it have no problem with whites playing it but usually look askance at being asked whether they have ever played or thought about playing one.

    Of course, almost all banjo today is either heard in hardcore bluegrass music or the occasional “old timey” tendency in what’s left of folk music (which isn’t much beyond small clumpings of old former card carrying CPUSA/IWW types and hefty butch lesbians) or the occasional “Americana” or “alt country” act using them, even there they are scarce. Dolly Parton and Steve Martin still plunk them as part of their stage shows, and Bela’ Fleck is making a living as the modern Eddie Peabody of sorts. But as compared to electric guitar, acoustic guitar, etc, it’s truly miniscule. These musical environments do not appeal that much to blacks (although the right black performer could come in and clean up insofar as these audiences tend to be liberal or, in the case of bluegrass, if not liberal, Respectable Conservative).

    I suppose there are a few dixieland revival trad-jazz bands with a four string banjo as well, but again, although the early dixieleand bands were largely blacks, black jazz musicians since the bop era have typically regarded dixieland as something to avoid, being in their minds Stepin Fetchit and an embarrassment of sorts when played today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Mumford And Sons, English public-school literary folk-rockers, play a fair bit of banjo. a/c/t Wiki, they came to bluegrass via the soundtrack of "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" and the Old Crow Medicine Show.
    , @guest
    A case of Flight from Black? They're content to be connected to hip-hop nowadays, though perhaps not its vilest examples. Which makes them look far, far worse than Stepin Fetchit, in my opinion. But they'd rather fail on their own terms than succeed on white terms. And old-timey blackness is tainted with whiteness. Because in the absence of a strong sense of cultural tradition dating back to before the advent of sound recording--which I don't think blacks possess--they have to go by what's been preserved by white people. At least when we're considering stuff from more than a couple generations ago.

    Blacks and white goodthinkers alike have a complex surrounding minstrelsy, and not just the blackface version. The whole deal is considered, I don't know, pandering to white people? Or something like that. The term for black popular entertainers in the later 19th and earlier 20th century is "songster," which is almost like a swear word for people who use it. We're talking beyond minstrel music, into jazz and blues. Which remain popular, for whites more than blacks maybe.

    Canned Heat, a hippyish 60s rock band did a song called "Going Up the Country," memorably accompanied by African pipes. I've never heard such pipes on mainstream black music, though maybe I haven't been paying enough attention. They got the song from the old bluesman Henry Thomas, who recorded in the 20s. Listen to the recording, and it sounds like what I'd call country music. Which isn't surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.

    Anyway, point is 60s blues nerds were white people, and they dredged up instruments like this, which were invented by Africans. Blacks by and large don't care, and wouldn't be caught dead with other African instruments. Certainly they never put banjers on their knees.

    Back in the Henry Thomas days, the talented tenth, at least, wanted respect, and as such shunned lowly country blues musicians in favor of guys like Duke Ellington. Who wrote--yes, wrote--for white instruments mostly. Not white music, because it was jazz. But respectable black music, not banjos and pipes.

    As I said, they're willing to promote rap as intellectually serious, because they're degenerates. But they run away from old-timey blackness, and not just because it's tainted with white approval. Also because their roots embarrass them. Even "hot jazz," which set off the modern jazz craze--now mostly carried on by whites. How many regular blacks look at Louis Armstrong and say, "My man!"? Only using a word beside "man." And he was the boss, ya dig?

    Now he's as black as the Disney Channel.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today.
     
    There's the banjolele. That sounds half-Hawaiian, but the ukulele is a Portuguese invention which just happened to take place in Honolulu.

    I have a banjolele from Zither Heaven which is tuned zither-style-- with a wrench. Now that's weird. And inconvenient if you forget to pack the wrench.
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  27. res says:
    @Neoconned
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/07/new-artificial-intelligence-can-tell-whether-youre-gay-or-straight-from-a-photograph

    So apparently "gayface" is real. An AI can apparently tell the difference.

    I wonder if Coates has it. Didnt he demand granola as part of his payment package?

    Before getting too excited about the results: “could correctly distinguish between gay and straight men 81% of the time, and 74% for women” realize that gays are approximately 4% in the US so just always guessing straight would have an accuracy of 96%.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    I haven't read the study but I'd imagine for the purposes of obtaining a useful result, the sample set was split roughly 50-50.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    The software wasn't looking at random people in the street, but at photos on dating sites where people had self-defined as gay/straight/whatever.

    https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21728614-machines-read-faces-are-coming-advances-ai-are-used-spot-signs

    Of course there could be some other factor at work, I have no idea if gay men's selfies have a particular photographic style, like the tilt-head duckface that disfigures so many young ladies' Facebook pages.

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  28. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    ‘Cleaver’ by name ‘cleaver’ by nature.

    * ‘Cleaver’ in the English surname context is probably another form of ‘clever’ meaning ‘intelligent’ – obviously skipped a generation in this case -.
    ‘Cleaver’ spelled with an ‘a’ , of course, refers in modern usage to the butcher’s tool, basically a heavy chopping knife, which ‘cleaves’ joints of meat apart – hence the ‘lewd’ association.

    Read More
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  29. guest says:
    @Sunbeam
    Reading that NY Times article:

    "''My design has a tremendous future,'' he said, ''both artistically and commercially, because not just the intellect -- the head and face -- is honored. The other half of man's identity, the sex organs, is, too.''"

    Out of curiosity how many here think of their sexual organs as being key to their identity? There really isn't a right or wrong answer (though there may be a useful one in certain situations like outbreeding those b#st#$%ds up the valley or creating the industrial revolution), but how many here think this way?

    Not like I want to cut my junk off, but if some odd occurrence happened to the family jewels I don't think it would affect my conception of myself at all.

    Of course I don't want to find out for sure.

    I’ve never really understood the concept of “identity,” so I can’t answer. If it’s simply a matter of what I believe makes up my selfhood, then no, I don’t think I’d be asking “Who am I?” in crisis mode should I lose my junk.

    But my junk is important, both on a day-to-day scheduling basis and on a subconscious basis. I can’t be the only one who reflexively checks there every morning and in times of danger and uncertainty.

    Read More
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  30. guest says:
    @Anon
    We need to get away from 'cool' which has degenerated into 'fool'.

    The new-cool must be 'real'. That should be the highest compliment. That something is real and true.

    I mean stuff like this(below) just gotta go.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sexy-Mens-Adjustable-Tie-Up-Penis-Pouch-Underwear-For-Him-Pants-Sheath-Cover-/232190327287

    https://www.caprishop.com/en/penis-tie-p-4352.html

    Black people are way ahead of you. It’s all about Real Talk and “Com’on, be real!”

    There is (or was) a talk show called the Real. Which always made me ask “the real what?” when I heard it. I assume the show is (or was) for black women. They’d know what the title is getting at with its reference to realness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I mean real real, not black 'real'. For blacks, BLM is real. Actually, it's total fantasy.

    In the black community, 'bad' means good.

    We need some truth.

    Also, true real is humanist and comes with humility, utterly lacking in the black community where even some high school dropout ghetto rat with nothing thinks he's emperor jones.. or basketball jones. Or some dumb ho' living on scraps thinks she is Da Queen.
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  31. guest says:
    @San Fernando Curt
    I'm old enough to remember how seriously the Eastern establishment press took Mr. Cleaver and his codpiece in the early '70s. You could almost hear the vertical forefinger go up under the nose, followed by indulgent, sarcasm-free "hmmm...' With hysterically overpraised "Soul on Ice," he was the Teabag Coates of his generation. Media was astounded a black with his background wrote prose that read like that of a bookish Jew who headed home to Montauk every night.

    Hmmm... Indeed.

    “He was the Teabag Coates of his generation”

    In the sense of being taken far more seriously than he should’ve been, yes. But Cleaver was a different beast (and I use that term conscientiously). He had “street cred,” which Tennessee Coates shall never possess. He was also transgressive. This was a guy committed to racio-political rape. Though that may have been a post hoc rationalization for what lots of black rapists do: that is, target white women. And he went to prison, man. Can you dig it?

    Coates couldn’t buy that kind of…what do they call it? Frisson? Pure, unadulterated anti-Whitey. Or so they thought. I don’t really know the whole story, aside from the fact that he actually was a felon.

    This attitude of white goodthinker celebration of black transgressiveness is narrated well by Tom Wolfe in his article Radical Chic, about Leonard Bernstein and the Black Panthers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @San Fernando Curt
    There were several junior-league Fanons in addition to eager-beaver Cleaver. I'm convinced a lot of mid-century black visionaries we're celebrated simply because they bluntly articulated and so confirmed white-gay rape fantasies.
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  32. @SND
    I remember Cleavers well from when Eldridge publicized them, but was reminded of them by G. W. Bush's "modified Cleaver" outfit at the Mission Accomplished ceremony.

    Back in '68 I attended what was styled as the "Yippie Convention" in Berkeley held in preparation for disrupting the Democratic National Convention in Chicago later that year. It was hosted by Jerry Rubin & Eldridge Cleaver. Jerry got up to speak and outraged the audience by reading a long, boring self-congratulatory screed. People started to yell at Jerry to "shut up." Meanwhile, Rubin had worked his hippy drug magic by getting Eldridge extremely stoned. Cleaver stood up & began to speak incoherently. A woman heckled him from the audience. Cleaver became enraged and chanted repeatedly "Baby, I got what you need right here!" This was, of course, right at the beginning of what became known as the "women's movement." It was all very embarrassing and the "Yippie Convention" broke up in an uproar.

    Moral of story: Eldridge has always been obsessed by "muh dick!" After all Soul On Ice was about rape. "Cleavers," the fashion ploy, was an extension of that obsession.

    Great to have a report from a (repentant?) participant in the Cultural Revolution.

    Read More
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  33. @Anonymous
    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today. I have a banjo, actually a couple, and blacks I've talked to about it have no problem with whites playing it but usually look askance at being asked whether they have ever played or thought about playing one.

    Of course, almost all banjo today is either heard in hardcore bluegrass music or the occasional "old timey" tendency in what's left of folk music (which isn't much beyond small clumpings of old former card carrying CPUSA/IWW types and hefty butch lesbians) or the occasional "Americana" or "alt country" act using them, even there they are scarce. Dolly Parton and Steve Martin still plunk them as part of their stage shows, and Bela' Fleck is making a living as the modern Eddie Peabody of sorts. But as compared to electric guitar, acoustic guitar, etc, it's truly miniscule. These musical environments do not appeal that much to blacks (although the right black performer could come in and clean up insofar as these audiences tend to be liberal or, in the case of bluegrass, if not liberal, Respectable Conservative).

    I suppose there are a few dixieland revival trad-jazz bands with a four string banjo as well, but again, although the early dixieleand bands were largely blacks, black jazz musicians since the bop era have typically regarded dixieland as something to avoid, being in their minds Stepin Fetchit and an embarrassment of sorts when played today.

    Mumford And Sons, English public-school literary folk-rockers, play a fair bit of banjo. a/c/t Wiki, they came to bluegrass via the soundtrack of “O Brother, Where Art Thou?” and the Old Crow Medicine Show.

    Read More
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  34. snorlax says:
    @res
    Before getting too excited about the results: "could correctly distinguish between gay and straight men 81% of the time, and 74% for women" realize that gays are approximately 4% in the US so just always guessing straight would have an accuracy of 96%.

    I haven’t read the study but I’d imagine for the purposes of obtaining a useful result, the sample set was split roughly 50-50.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Quite possible, though I tend to think popular accounts are more likely to overinflate accuracy than attempt to give a good metric. It would be interesting to know the AUC and see a ROC curve.
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  35. guest says:
    @Anonymous
    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today. I have a banjo, actually a couple, and blacks I've talked to about it have no problem with whites playing it but usually look askance at being asked whether they have ever played or thought about playing one.

    Of course, almost all banjo today is either heard in hardcore bluegrass music or the occasional "old timey" tendency in what's left of folk music (which isn't much beyond small clumpings of old former card carrying CPUSA/IWW types and hefty butch lesbians) or the occasional "Americana" or "alt country" act using them, even there they are scarce. Dolly Parton and Steve Martin still plunk them as part of their stage shows, and Bela' Fleck is making a living as the modern Eddie Peabody of sorts. But as compared to electric guitar, acoustic guitar, etc, it's truly miniscule. These musical environments do not appeal that much to blacks (although the right black performer could come in and clean up insofar as these audiences tend to be liberal or, in the case of bluegrass, if not liberal, Respectable Conservative).

    I suppose there are a few dixieland revival trad-jazz bands with a four string banjo as well, but again, although the early dixieleand bands were largely blacks, black jazz musicians since the bop era have typically regarded dixieland as something to avoid, being in their minds Stepin Fetchit and an embarrassment of sorts when played today.

    A case of Flight from Black? They’re content to be connected to hip-hop nowadays, though perhaps not its vilest examples. Which makes them look far, far worse than Stepin Fetchit, in my opinion. But they’d rather fail on their own terms than succeed on white terms. And old-timey blackness is tainted with whiteness. Because in the absence of a strong sense of cultural tradition dating back to before the advent of sound recording–which I don’t think blacks possess–they have to go by what’s been preserved by white people. At least when we’re considering stuff from more than a couple generations ago.

    Blacks and white goodthinkers alike have a complex surrounding minstrelsy, and not just the blackface version. The whole deal is considered, I don’t know, pandering to white people? Or something like that. The term for black popular entertainers in the later 19th and earlier 20th century is “songster,” which is almost like a swear word for people who use it. We’re talking beyond minstrel music, into jazz and blues. Which remain popular, for whites more than blacks maybe.

    Canned Heat, a hippyish 60s rock band did a song called “Going Up the Country,” memorably accompanied by African pipes. I’ve never heard such pipes on mainstream black music, though maybe I haven’t been paying enough attention. They got the song from the old bluesman Henry Thomas, who recorded in the 20s. Listen to the recording, and it sounds like what I’d call country music. Which isn’t surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.

    Anyway, point is 60s blues nerds were white people, and they dredged up instruments like this, which were invented by Africans. Blacks by and large don’t care, and wouldn’t be caught dead with other African instruments. Certainly they never put banjers on their knees.

    Back in the Henry Thomas days, the talented tenth, at least, wanted respect, and as such shunned lowly country blues musicians in favor of guys like Duke Ellington. Who wrote–yes, wrote–for white instruments mostly. Not white music, because it was jazz. But respectable black music, not banjos and pipes.

    As I said, they’re willing to promote rap as intellectually serious, because they’re degenerates. But they run away from old-timey blackness, and not just because it’s tainted with white approval. Also because their roots embarrass them. Even “hot jazz,” which set off the modern jazz craze–now mostly carried on by whites. How many regular blacks look at Louis Armstrong and say, “My man!”? Only using a word beside “man.” And he was the boss, ya dig?

    Now he’s as black as the Disney Channel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There is no question that poor whites and blacks alike in isolated rural areas built and played banjos-crude ones with no frets-in the United States. There does not seem to be much of an African direct antecedent to them, the Africans had a single string affair made from a gourd- it was more like a sitar or tambura, but nothing quite like the banjo.

    However, most of banjoing as we know it actually comes from England. The English took to the banjo in a big way in the late 1880s and early 1900s and built the first commercially available factory made ones, some of which were very ornate and well made. English banjos were usually five string, and often of a style now called a "zither banjo". These had guitar like pegheads and featured a fifth string which went all the way up the neck and came through a tunnel underneath the fretboard to a second nut at the fifth fret, although there were six, seven and more string variations.

    English banjos are rare in the US. But American companies like S.S.Stewart, Vega, and Gibson made commercial ones starting a little after the English started to, and when Dixieland music became popular the most popular banjo became the four string model tuned in fourths like a mandolin. There is little interest in four string banjo today: most surviving Gibsons and some others have been converted into five string models.

    At any rate, the two places and times where blacks actually played banjo were in the antebellum and reconstruction South, and again in Dixieland jazz bands. As jazz styles changed and Chicago and New York replaced New Orleans-musicians tended to relocate-the guitar replaced the banjo as the rhythm instrument. So that banjoists did not have to learn a new instrument, they had tenor guitars with four string narrow necks tuned in fifths made. In the 1950s, you saw the revival of Dixieland or "trad" jazz both in the US and Britain (Brian Jones and several other budding rock stars of the 1960s British scene started out playing trad jazz-in America, it was the territory of 'old man' virtuosi like Al Hirt and Pete Fountain, and kids avoided it as they did Lawrence Welk, which is to say, as vampires avoided sunlight), and in the US, the "folk scare" as dozens of young and preppy looking outfits played "Folk" music in the style of Pete Seeger. Folk had several black performers-Harry Belafonte was often considered folk, and the man now known as Louis Farrakhan attempted a career, leading Limbaugh and others to refer to him as 'Calypso Louie'. But few if any had banjos, and blacks regarded them like lawn jockeys and Aunt Jemima.
    , @San Fernando Curt

    Which isn’t surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.
     
    It should be noted that black country and white country music are separate animals. White country music was derived solely from English folk music, in form long before the children of Albion ever encountered Africans. Since it also was basis for commoner hymns, it was heavy influence on black spirituals and so on the blues - not, as is generally supposed, the other way around.

    Country and blues matured influencing one another. As Buddy Guy once noted, jazz isn't African music - it's African American music.
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  36. @res
    Before getting too excited about the results: "could correctly distinguish between gay and straight men 81% of the time, and 74% for women" realize that gays are approximately 4% in the US so just always guessing straight would have an accuracy of 96%.

    The software wasn’t looking at random people in the street, but at photos on dating sites where people had self-defined as gay/straight/whatever.

    https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21728614-machines-read-faces-are-coming-advances-ai-are-used-spot-signs

    Of course there could be some other factor at work, I have no idea if gay men’s selfies have a particular photographic style, like the tilt-head duckface that disfigures so many young ladies’ Facebook pages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    True. Even representation:

    35,326 pictures of 14,776 people, with gay and straight, male and female, all represented evenly.
     
    But further down we see:

    When shown five photos of each man, it attributed sexuality correctly 91% of the time.
    ...
    The 91% accuracy rate only applies when one of the two men whose images are shown is known to be gay.

     

    IMO that second sentence is an incredible constraint.

    The following excerpt probably gives a pretty decent idea of the accuracy:

    To demonstrate this weakness, the researchers selected 1,000 men at random with at least five photographs, but in a ratio of gay to straight that more accurately reflects the real world; approximately seven in every 100. When asked to select the 100 males most likely to be gay, only 47 of those chosen by the system actually were, meaning that the system ranked some straight men as more likely to be gay than men who actually are.

    However, when asked to pick out the ten faces it was most confident about, nine of the chosen were in fact gay.
     
    Worth noting that 7% gay is higher than most estimates I have seen. Probably comes from this result looking at Millenials only: http://www.thedailybeast.com/just-how-many-lgbt-americans-are-there
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  37. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @guest
    A case of Flight from Black? They're content to be connected to hip-hop nowadays, though perhaps not its vilest examples. Which makes them look far, far worse than Stepin Fetchit, in my opinion. But they'd rather fail on their own terms than succeed on white terms. And old-timey blackness is tainted with whiteness. Because in the absence of a strong sense of cultural tradition dating back to before the advent of sound recording--which I don't think blacks possess--they have to go by what's been preserved by white people. At least when we're considering stuff from more than a couple generations ago.

    Blacks and white goodthinkers alike have a complex surrounding minstrelsy, and not just the blackface version. The whole deal is considered, I don't know, pandering to white people? Or something like that. The term for black popular entertainers in the later 19th and earlier 20th century is "songster," which is almost like a swear word for people who use it. We're talking beyond minstrel music, into jazz and blues. Which remain popular, for whites more than blacks maybe.

    Canned Heat, a hippyish 60s rock band did a song called "Going Up the Country," memorably accompanied by African pipes. I've never heard such pipes on mainstream black music, though maybe I haven't been paying enough attention. They got the song from the old bluesman Henry Thomas, who recorded in the 20s. Listen to the recording, and it sounds like what I'd call country music. Which isn't surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.

    Anyway, point is 60s blues nerds were white people, and they dredged up instruments like this, which were invented by Africans. Blacks by and large don't care, and wouldn't be caught dead with other African instruments. Certainly they never put banjers on their knees.

    Back in the Henry Thomas days, the talented tenth, at least, wanted respect, and as such shunned lowly country blues musicians in favor of guys like Duke Ellington. Who wrote--yes, wrote--for white instruments mostly. Not white music, because it was jazz. But respectable black music, not banjos and pipes.

    As I said, they're willing to promote rap as intellectually serious, because they're degenerates. But they run away from old-timey blackness, and not just because it's tainted with white approval. Also because their roots embarrass them. Even "hot jazz," which set off the modern jazz craze--now mostly carried on by whites. How many regular blacks look at Louis Armstrong and say, "My man!"? Only using a word beside "man." And he was the boss, ya dig?

    Now he's as black as the Disney Channel.

    There is no question that poor whites and blacks alike in isolated rural areas built and played banjos-crude ones with no frets-in the United States. There does not seem to be much of an African direct antecedent to them, the Africans had a single string affair made from a gourd- it was more like a sitar or tambura, but nothing quite like the banjo.

    However, most of banjoing as we know it actually comes from England. The English took to the banjo in a big way in the late 1880s and early 1900s and built the first commercially available factory made ones, some of which were very ornate and well made. English banjos were usually five string, and often of a style now called a “zither banjo”. These had guitar like pegheads and featured a fifth string which went all the way up the neck and came through a tunnel underneath the fretboard to a second nut at the fifth fret, although there were six, seven and more string variations.

    English banjos are rare in the US. But American companies like S.S.Stewart, Vega, and Gibson made commercial ones starting a little after the English started to, and when Dixieland music became popular the most popular banjo became the four string model tuned in fourths like a mandolin. There is little interest in four string banjo today: most surviving Gibsons and some others have been converted into five string models.

    At any rate, the two places and times where blacks actually played banjo were in the antebellum and reconstruction South, and again in Dixieland jazz bands. As jazz styles changed and Chicago and New York replaced New Orleans-musicians tended to relocate-the guitar replaced the banjo as the rhythm instrument. So that banjoists did not have to learn a new instrument, they had tenor guitars with four string narrow necks tuned in fifths made. In the 1950s, you saw the revival of Dixieland or “trad” jazz both in the US and Britain (Brian Jones and several other budding rock stars of the 1960s British scene started out playing trad jazz-in America, it was the territory of ‘old man’ virtuosi like Al Hirt and Pete Fountain, and kids avoided it as they did Lawrence Welk, which is to say, as vampires avoided sunlight), and in the US, the “folk scare” as dozens of young and preppy looking outfits played “Folk” music in the style of Pete Seeger. Folk had several black performers-Harry Belafonte was often considered folk, and the man now known as Louis Farrakhan attempted a career, leading Limbaugh and others to refer to him as ‘Calypso Louie’. But few if any had banjos, and blacks regarded them like lawn jockeys and Aunt Jemima.

    Read More
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  38. If only Ignatius/Gloria could have introduced this innovative, powerful, ‘bold and sexy’ new product line at Levy Pants! Then it would have been a going concern, and Mrs Levy might have approved.

    J K Toole wouldn’t have seen the Cleaver story when he was writing A Confederacy of Dunces, but he might have understood.

    Read More
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  39. @Sunbeam
    Reading that NY Times article:

    "''My design has a tremendous future,'' he said, ''both artistically and commercially, because not just the intellect -- the head and face -- is honored. The other half of man's identity, the sex organs, is, too.''"

    Out of curiosity how many here think of their sexual organs as being key to their identity? There really isn't a right or wrong answer (though there may be a useful one in certain situations like outbreeding those b#st#$%ds up the valley or creating the industrial revolution), but how many here think this way?

    Not like I want to cut my junk off, but if some odd occurrence happened to the family jewels I don't think it would affect my conception of myself at all.

    Of course I don't want to find out for sure.

    Out of curiosity how many here think of their sexual organs as being key to their identity?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_nZh8x_Uo?t=1m10

    Read More
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  40. Stealth says:
    @Anon
    We need to get away from 'cool' which has degenerated into 'fool'.

    The new-cool must be 'real'. That should be the highest compliment. That something is real and true.

    I mean stuff like this(below) just gotta go.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sexy-Mens-Adjustable-Tie-Up-Penis-Pouch-Underwear-For-Him-Pants-Sheath-Cover-/232190327287

    https://www.caprishop.com/en/penis-tie-p-4352.html

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  41. CK says:
    @Father O'Hara
    I guess he'd be a good match for Beaver Cleaver.

    The codpiece holds in the beaver cleaver. But you already knew that.

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  42. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Having admittedly never seen the word “eldritch” used before, and after consulting my trusty Merriam -Webster (on-line) Dictionary I learned that the word is first known to have been used in 1508. I mean, really, who the hell uses words like “eldritch?” On the other hand, if you are a certified “MacArthur Genius”, you’ve got to write like one, right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "I mean, really, who the hell uses words like 'eldritch?'"

    Nerds.

    The word makes sense in the context of, for instance, Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu, because he's writing about an ancient monster hibernating in a lost city under the sea. Nerds read that, and ones who write show-offy articles about...something (whiteness and Trump, apparently) pull it from memory because they read it there or in Dungeons and Dragons, or heard it said in some nerdy context.
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  43. @guest
    "He was the Teabag Coates of his generation"

    In the sense of being taken far more seriously than he should've been, yes. But Cleaver was a different beast (and I use that term conscientiously). He had "street cred," which Tennessee Coates shall never possess. He was also transgressive. This was a guy committed to racio-political rape. Though that may have been a post hoc rationalization for what lots of black rapists do: that is, target white women. And he went to prison, man. Can you dig it?

    Coates couldn't buy that kind of...what do they call it? Frisson? Pure, unadulterated anti-Whitey. Or so they thought. I don't really know the whole story, aside from the fact that he actually was a felon.

    This attitude of white goodthinker celebration of black transgressiveness is narrated well by Tom Wolfe in his article Radical Chic, about Leonard Bernstein and the Black Panthers.

    There were several junior-league Fanons in addition to eager-beaver Cleaver. I’m convinced a lot of mid-century black visionaries we’re celebrated simply because they bluntly articulated and so confirmed white-gay rape fantasies.

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  44. BozoB says:

    I have no wish to make any general defense of Mr. Cleaver’s views or actions, but if we look at the matter objectively we see immediately that the anatomy of the human male is better suited to a skirt, kilt or kimono than to trousers. I believe the weird English arch-conservative Anthony Ludovici makes the same point somewhere; the testes are best kept cool, away from the heat of the body. Or so the theory goes.

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  45. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer
    @guest
    Black people are way ahead of you. It's all about Real Talk and "Com'on, be real!"

    There is (or was) a talk show called the Real. Which always made me ask "the real what?" when I heard it. I assume the show is (or was) for black women. They'd know what the title is getting at with its reference to realness.

    I mean real real, not black ‘real’. For blacks, BLM is real. Actually, it’s total fantasy.

    In the black community, ‘bad’ means good.

    We need some truth.

    Also, true real is humanist and comes with humility, utterly lacking in the black community where even some high school dropout ghetto rat with nothing thinks he’s emperor jones.. or basketball jones. Or some dumb ho’ living on scraps thinks she is Da Queen.

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  46. @guest
    A case of Flight from Black? They're content to be connected to hip-hop nowadays, though perhaps not its vilest examples. Which makes them look far, far worse than Stepin Fetchit, in my opinion. But they'd rather fail on their own terms than succeed on white terms. And old-timey blackness is tainted with whiteness. Because in the absence of a strong sense of cultural tradition dating back to before the advent of sound recording--which I don't think blacks possess--they have to go by what's been preserved by white people. At least when we're considering stuff from more than a couple generations ago.

    Blacks and white goodthinkers alike have a complex surrounding minstrelsy, and not just the blackface version. The whole deal is considered, I don't know, pandering to white people? Or something like that. The term for black popular entertainers in the later 19th and earlier 20th century is "songster," which is almost like a swear word for people who use it. We're talking beyond minstrel music, into jazz and blues. Which remain popular, for whites more than blacks maybe.

    Canned Heat, a hippyish 60s rock band did a song called "Going Up the Country," memorably accompanied by African pipes. I've never heard such pipes on mainstream black music, though maybe I haven't been paying enough attention. They got the song from the old bluesman Henry Thomas, who recorded in the 20s. Listen to the recording, and it sounds like what I'd call country music. Which isn't surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.

    Anyway, point is 60s blues nerds were white people, and they dredged up instruments like this, which were invented by Africans. Blacks by and large don't care, and wouldn't be caught dead with other African instruments. Certainly they never put banjers on their knees.

    Back in the Henry Thomas days, the talented tenth, at least, wanted respect, and as such shunned lowly country blues musicians in favor of guys like Duke Ellington. Who wrote--yes, wrote--for white instruments mostly. Not white music, because it was jazz. But respectable black music, not banjos and pipes.

    As I said, they're willing to promote rap as intellectually serious, because they're degenerates. But they run away from old-timey blackness, and not just because it's tainted with white approval. Also because their roots embarrass them. Even "hot jazz," which set off the modern jazz craze--now mostly carried on by whites. How many regular blacks look at Louis Armstrong and say, "My man!"? Only using a word beside "man." And he was the boss, ya dig?

    Now he's as black as the Disney Channel.

    Which isn’t surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.

    It should be noted that black country and white country music are separate animals. White country music was derived solely from English folk music, in form long before the children of Albion ever encountered Africans. Since it also was basis for commoner hymns, it was heavy influence on black spirituals and so on the blues – not, as is generally supposed, the other way around.

    Country and blues matured influencing one another. As Buddy Guy once noted, jazz isn’t African music – it’s African American music.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "Country and blues matured influencing one another"

    I agree, but I'd say that what we call "country" today, commonly viewed as white, ultimately derives from black-American music more than any other source. There are several tributary lines, three of which are white in origin: European folk/popular music, bluegrass (which to a large degree is an extension in America of European music), and Western music. The fourth line comes from black delta music, which in my opinion is the dominant line. Early "country" recordings, ones considered foundation stones of modern country music--Jimmy Rodgers, for instance--are often indistinguishable from the "black country" music of the time, i.e. the blues. If I didn't know the story and hadn't seen pictures, I'd probably guess Hank Williams was black.

    Bearing in mind, of course, that before it hit the American mainstream, Southern black music was played for and by white people. Also, contemporary understanding of white country music has been irreversibly corrupted by mass media influence and especially the machinations of the recording industry.

    Still, I find funny the idea that redneck country fans are carrying on black tradition, while white hipster folkies were passing down the traditions of Dead White Males.

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  47. George says:

    Hey iSteve, news about Antonio Cromartie’s eldritch energies.

    Okay, Seriously, What’s Going On With Antonio Cromartie’s Penis?

    http://deadspin.com/okay-seriously-whats-going-on-with-antonio-cromarties-1802708762

    Antonio Cromartie’s Penis Is Unstoppable

    http://deadspin.com/antonio-cromarties-penis-is-unstoppable-1752723337

    What’s Cromartie’s Cromartie index now?

    Read More
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  48. Feeeney says:

    At first I assumed the article was from National Lampoon. But it seems to be true.

    NYT SEPT. 23, 2001

    “Having come to prominence in the late 1960′s as the author of ”Soul on Ice” and as the mediagenic mouthpiece for the Black Panthers, Cleaver, who died in 1998, renounced his militancy in the mid-70′s to join the Republican Party. Spiritually, he underwent similarly radical conversions, from being an atheist to becoming a born-again Christian who prayed with the televangelist Billy Graham. He was also a short-lived Moonie, founded the Cleaver Crusade for Christ in 1979 and the following year formed his own religion, Christlam, along with an auxiliary called the Guardians of the Sperm. Then he converted to Mormonism.”

    High eldritch energy?

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  49. This picture and caption could be the epilogue of Radical Chic and Mau Mauing the Flack Catchers.

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  50. res says:
    @snorlax
    I haven't read the study but I'd imagine for the purposes of obtaining a useful result, the sample set was split roughly 50-50.

    Quite possible, though I tend to think popular accounts are more likely to overinflate accuracy than attempt to give a good metric. It would be interesting to know the AUC and see a ROC curve.

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  51. res says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    The software wasn't looking at random people in the street, but at photos on dating sites where people had self-defined as gay/straight/whatever.

    https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21728614-machines-read-faces-are-coming-advances-ai-are-used-spot-signs

    Of course there could be some other factor at work, I have no idea if gay men's selfies have a particular photographic style, like the tilt-head duckface that disfigures so many young ladies' Facebook pages.

    True. Even representation:

    35,326 pictures of 14,776 people, with gay and straight, male and female, all represented evenly.

    But further down we see:

    When shown five photos of each man, it attributed sexuality correctly 91% of the time.

    The 91% accuracy rate only applies when one of the two men whose images are shown is known to be gay.

    IMO that second sentence is an incredible constraint.

    The following excerpt probably gives a pretty decent idea of the accuracy:

    To demonstrate this weakness, the researchers selected 1,000 men at random with at least five photographs, but in a ratio of gay to straight that more accurately reflects the real world; approximately seven in every 100. When asked to select the 100 males most likely to be gay, only 47 of those chosen by the system actually were, meaning that the system ranked some straight men as more likely to be gay than men who actually are.

    However, when asked to pick out the ten faces it was most confident about, nine of the chosen were in fact gay.

    Worth noting that 7% gay is higher than most estimates I have seen. Probably comes from this result looking at Millenials only: http://www.thedailybeast.com/just-how-many-lgbt-americans-are-there

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  52. guest says:
    @anonymous
    Having admittedly never seen the word "eldritch" used before, and after consulting my trusty Merriam -Webster (on-line) Dictionary I learned that the word is first known to have been used in 1508. I mean, really, who the hell uses words like "eldritch?" On the other hand, if you are a certified "MacArthur Genius", you've got to write like one, right?

    “I mean, really, who the hell uses words like ‘eldritch?’”

    Nerds.

    The word makes sense in the context of, for instance, Lovecraft’s Call of Cthulhu, because he’s writing about an ancient monster hibernating in a lost city under the sea. Nerds read that, and ones who write show-offy articles about…something (whiteness and Trump, apparently) pull it from memory because they read it there or in Dungeons and Dragons, or heard it said in some nerdy context.

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  53. @Anonymous
    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today. I have a banjo, actually a couple, and blacks I've talked to about it have no problem with whites playing it but usually look askance at being asked whether they have ever played or thought about playing one.

    Of course, almost all banjo today is either heard in hardcore bluegrass music or the occasional "old timey" tendency in what's left of folk music (which isn't much beyond small clumpings of old former card carrying CPUSA/IWW types and hefty butch lesbians) or the occasional "Americana" or "alt country" act using them, even there they are scarce. Dolly Parton and Steve Martin still plunk them as part of their stage shows, and Bela' Fleck is making a living as the modern Eddie Peabody of sorts. But as compared to electric guitar, acoustic guitar, etc, it's truly miniscule. These musical environments do not appeal that much to blacks (although the right black performer could come in and clean up insofar as these audiences tend to be liberal or, in the case of bluegrass, if not liberal, Respectable Conservative).

    I suppose there are a few dixieland revival trad-jazz bands with a four string banjo as well, but again, although the early dixieleand bands were largely blacks, black jazz musicians since the bop era have typically regarded dixieland as something to avoid, being in their minds Stepin Fetchit and an embarrassment of sorts when played today.

    Oddly enough, it would seemingly be tough to find a whiter instrument than the banjo today.

    There’s the banjolele. That sounds half-Hawaiian, but the ukulele is a Portuguese invention which just happened to take place in Honolulu.

    I have a banjolele from Zither Heaven which is tuned zither-style– with a wrench. Now that’s weird. And inconvenient if you forget to pack the wrench.

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  54. @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Although negro inventors are few,
    It's astonishing what they can do.
    The banjo is Black.
    And don't forget crack
    In the Cleavers exposed to our view.

    Don’t forget The Old Negro Space Program!

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  55. Ken2 says:

    The Meat Cleaver

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  56. guest says:
    @San Fernando Curt

    Which isn’t surprising, because country derives from the blues, among other sources.
     
    It should be noted that black country and white country music are separate animals. White country music was derived solely from English folk music, in form long before the children of Albion ever encountered Africans. Since it also was basis for commoner hymns, it was heavy influence on black spirituals and so on the blues - not, as is generally supposed, the other way around.

    Country and blues matured influencing one another. As Buddy Guy once noted, jazz isn't African music - it's African American music.

    “Country and blues matured influencing one another”

    I agree, but I’d say that what we call “country” today, commonly viewed as white, ultimately derives from black-American music more than any other source. There are several tributary lines, three of which are white in origin: European folk/popular music, bluegrass (which to a large degree is an extension in America of European music), and Western music. The fourth line comes from black delta music, which in my opinion is the dominant line. Early “country” recordings, ones considered foundation stones of modern country music–Jimmy Rodgers, for instance–are often indistinguishable from the “black country” music of the time, i.e. the blues. If I didn’t know the story and hadn’t seen pictures, I’d probably guess Hank Williams was black.

    Bearing in mind, of course, that before it hit the American mainstream, Southern black music was played for and by white people. Also, contemporary understanding of white country music has been irreversibly corrupted by mass media influence and especially the machinations of the recording industry.

    Still, I find funny the idea that redneck country fans are carrying on black tradition, while white hipster folkies were passing down the traditions of Dead White Males.

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    • Replies: @San Fernando Curt
    In any other consideration, three out of four influences would make country music more white than black. But that would violate our social commandant to void all white culture as simply appropriation of non-white cultures. I think your assessment upholds that commandment, and proves that fear of violating our politically correct strictures is very strong.
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  57. Hibernian says:
    @Marty
    No, it was that recent dude in Tennessee.

    Cleaver was a known rapist.

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  58. This little Aussie ( finally ?) decided to grow himself a “glowing amulet”that will need a pair of Cleavers, but only after he first acted as a ten year old boy , , eleven year old girl twelve year old boy with no both parents in the house guidance.

    And why he was altering his pre-adolescent hormonal chaos at the first place ?

    “You wish you could just change everything about you, you just see any girl and you say I’d kill to be like that.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/12-year-old-boy-trans-female-change-mind-years-later-patrick-mitchell-australia-oestrogen-hormones-a7933741.html

    So. The Independent Idiots published this story finalizing it with this three paragraphs:

    “While gender dysphoria is rare, the number of people being diagnosed with the condition is increasing, due to growing public awareness.

    A survey of 10,000 people undertaken in 2012 by the Equality and Human Rights Commission found that 1% of the population surveyed was gender variant, to some extent.

    If you think you or your child may have gender dysphoria, the NHS suggests seeing your GP who, if necessary, can then refer you to a specialist Gender Identity Clinic (GIC).”

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  59. @guest
    "Country and blues matured influencing one another"

    I agree, but I'd say that what we call "country" today, commonly viewed as white, ultimately derives from black-American music more than any other source. There are several tributary lines, three of which are white in origin: European folk/popular music, bluegrass (which to a large degree is an extension in America of European music), and Western music. The fourth line comes from black delta music, which in my opinion is the dominant line. Early "country" recordings, ones considered foundation stones of modern country music--Jimmy Rodgers, for instance--are often indistinguishable from the "black country" music of the time, i.e. the blues. If I didn't know the story and hadn't seen pictures, I'd probably guess Hank Williams was black.

    Bearing in mind, of course, that before it hit the American mainstream, Southern black music was played for and by white people. Also, contemporary understanding of white country music has been irreversibly corrupted by mass media influence and especially the machinations of the recording industry.

    Still, I find funny the idea that redneck country fans are carrying on black tradition, while white hipster folkies were passing down the traditions of Dead White Males.

    In any other consideration, three out of four influences would make country music more white than black. But that would violate our social commandant to void all white culture as simply appropriation of non-white cultures. I think your assessment upholds that commandment, and proves that fear of violating our politically correct strictures is very strong.

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    • Replies: @guest
    You can't just add up lines of influence like that. They're not of equal size. Three of them are regular-sized tributaries, whereas the fourth is the Nile.

    Following the strictures of Political Correctness in this instance happens to give you the correct answer. Black delta music has been immensely influential over American popular music, especially since the recording industry took off. What we call "country" is more blues than it is any subgenre from ultimately white sources. Just like rock and roll came more from blues and r&b than it did from the nominally white country, though it had white sources, too.

    If it helps, stereotypically black music from mistrelsy on isn't as exclusively black as we're led to believe. White people had a hand in developing and popularizing it. Far and away its most famous composer is the white Stephen Foster. No one else is even close. And that's the beachhead from which various other black-created genres--jazz, ragtime, blues, r&b, rock--colonized so much of American culture.

    That's one reason leftist hate minstrel music so much.

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  60. guest says:
    @San Fernando Curt
    In any other consideration, three out of four influences would make country music more white than black. But that would violate our social commandant to void all white culture as simply appropriation of non-white cultures. I think your assessment upholds that commandment, and proves that fear of violating our politically correct strictures is very strong.

    You can’t just add up lines of influence like that. They’re not of equal size. Three of them are regular-sized tributaries, whereas the fourth is the Nile.

    Following the strictures of Political Correctness in this instance happens to give you the correct answer. Black delta music has been immensely influential over American popular music, especially since the recording industry took off. What we call “country” is more blues than it is any subgenre from ultimately white sources. Just like rock and roll came more from blues and r&b than it did from the nominally white country, though it had white sources, too.

    If it helps, stereotypically black music from mistrelsy on isn’t as exclusively black as we’re led to believe. White people had a hand in developing and popularizing it. Far and away its most famous composer is the white Stephen Foster. No one else is even close. And that’s the beachhead from which various other black-created genres–jazz, ragtime, blues, r&b, rock–colonized so much of American culture.

    That’s one reason leftist hate minstrel music so much.

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  61. No one is in denial That Old Man River isn’t rich with de Nile.

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