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Doris Day, RIP
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Doris Day is dead at 97.

HER COY LOVER SINGS OUT

Doris, ever since 1945,
when I was all of thirteen and you a mere twenty-one,
and “Sentimental Journey” came winging
out of the juke box at the sweet shop,
your voice peircing me like a silver arrow,
I knew you were sexy.

And in 1962, when you
were thirty-eight and I all of thirty
and having a first affair, while you
were co-starring with Cary Grant in That Touch of Mink
and enjoying, according to the Globe,
Doris’ Red-Hot Romp with Mickey Mantle,
I wasn’t surprised.

Now in 2008 (did you ever
think you’d live into such a weird year?)
when you are eighty-four and I am seventy-six,
I still know you’re sexy,
and not just in reruns or on old 45 rpms.
Your four inadequate husbands weren’t the half of it.

Bob Hope called you Jut-Butt, and your breasts
(Molly Haskell reported)
were as big as Monroe’s but swaddled.
Hollywood protected us from you,
they consumed you, what the Globe tastefully terms
the “shocking secret life of America’s Sweetheart.”

Still, I’m not quite ready
for you to breathe the air that I breathe.
I huff going upstairs as it is.
Give me space to get over the idea of you –
the thrilling silver voice,
the gigantic silver screen. Go
easy on me, Clara, let’s take our time.
Like Irene Dunne done.

— John Updike

 
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  1. No one could do a slow burn as well as that lady, though Mrs Slocombe did come close a few times. RIP and thanks for everything Doris.

  2. RIP.
    My mother sang this song of hers a lot when I was a kid:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  3. Didn’t know that Doris was so, er, well endowed. I recall reading years ago that she also had an affair with Hall of Fame shortstop Maury Wills (allegedly about whom the word “short” stopped below the waistline) but according to Wiki she denied this in her autobio, claiming (according to Wiki) “it was probably advanced by the Dodgers organization for publicity purposes.” This is unlikely but…whatever. She sure as hell could sing and was a damn good actress. RIP, Doris.

  4. Polymath says:

    One of the best lines about her was from Oscar Levant: “I knew her before she was a virgin.”

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  5. This poem reminds me of one of his short stories. It’s the one where he eyes the popular high school girl from afar and is surprised at her rather mundane qualities when he finally meets her (in the parking lot after school?). I think it was “A&P.” I read it in an anthology of his work some 30 years ago. Anyone know this story?

    • Replies: @hhsiii
    , @Peter Johnson
  6. Back in the early 60s, when Doris Day was making all those chaste romantic comedies with Rock Hudson, some Time magazine reviewer explained their appeal by observing that the stars resembled “two Cadillacs parked in a suggestive position.”

    Some years later, probably the early 70s, Miss Day appeared for an interview with Johnny Carson on the Tonight show. The breasts that Mr. Updike refers to were not swaddled for that appearance. The video is on Youtube for those interested.

  7. Toddy Cat says:

    Finding out that Updike had a secret crush on Doris Day makes me think a lot more of him, somehow. May God’s eternal light shine on both of them.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
  8. Pentheus says:

    Love Me or Leave Me (1955) is an interesting “dark” Doris Day movie.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me_or_Leave_Me_(film)

  9. Her movies mostly didn’t date well. Except for the Hitchcock one, and many a couple of others. She always struck me as the Liz Taylor type, unable to form any real bond with a heterosexual man, but more comfortable around gays. I could very well be wrong about this.

    But then again, this is not from my generation. I still don’t get what the Beatles hubbub was all about. The Rolling Stones, and maybe others, were clearly a better rock group.

  10. anon[833] • Disclaimer says:

    she wasn’t another Hollywood crypto was she?

    i like Dr. Lorraine Day better

  11. @South Texas Guy

    The Rolling Stones, and maybe others, were clearly a better rock group.

    Mick Jagger said in the 1960s that the Stones were not a rock-and-roll group, but a rhythm-and-blues group. He was right. Then he walked back on it, for the marketing.

    The Beatles were notable for being able to compose actual tunes. You have to be pretty old to remember those.

  12. Carol says:
    @istevefan

    I love Doris Day now but how I hated that song when I was 3! So fatalistic. And it played and played, like Mr Sandman and that odious abba-dabba-dabba thing.

    In retrospect I guess the 60s just had to happen.

  13. Art Deco says:
    @South Texas Guy

    She had a troubled domestic life (~4 marriages), but that’s not unusual in Hollywood. What was sad was she had few relatives of any degree of proximity and it’s not clear she was on congenial terms with any of them. She only had one child (the issue of her 1st husband adopted by her 2d, and quite an accomplished fellow), who died about 15 years ago; both of his wives appear to have been grasping and troublesome characters, so there was no attentive daughter-in-law. Her one and only grandchild is a real estate agent in Monterey County, Ca and lives quite near to her; he’s admitted publicly that she stopped speaking to him about a dozen years ago; he’s approaching middle age but has no wife or children. She had no sisters; the one brother she had who’d survived infancy died > 60 years ago without issue. She had cousins, but when you’re 97 years old, you’ve outlived the bulk of them (and lost track of most of the rest).

  14. @South Texas Guy

    It is one thing to question how well her movies have dated, but as to her accomplishments, it is quite another.

    Yes, all those failed marriages along with the fact that her long-time lawyer ((( Jerome Bernhard Rosenthal ))) inflicted a whole lot of nasty on her tend to support your point.

  15. @Buck Ransom

    There are some short low-quality clips of this appearance. But you can see best how she really, um, stands out in this high-quality version of the full episode (although you have to wade through all the other stuff):

    • Replies: @ziel
    , @Captain Tripps
    , @Anon
  16. Hmm… That’s interesting. So there really was sex before we were born.

    She was my mother’s generation and type, but I had no idea she was as naughty as Mom.

    My whole impression of Doris Day until this moment was that of a pure-as-snow lady who could not possibly have had a jut-butt and swaddled breasts. Even the name “Doris Day” cannot possibly belong to a lady who fucks.

    She’s a lot more interesting now. Another benefit of reading iSteve.

    May she rest in peace.

    • Replies: @adreadline
  17. @Prester John

    Doris wasn’t the type to lie in her own autobiography. Rather, the book tended to set the record straight about certain things. She did admit to having an affair with actor McLean Stevenson, among others.

  18. @Polymath

    Then there is Mario Puzo’s novel “The Godfather.”

    Of course Johnney Fontaine was not Frank Sinatra and Margot Ashton was not Eva Gardner, Moe Greene was not Bugsy Siegel, and the character of the Hollywood actress who was America’s Sweetheart was not Doris Day?

  19. @Art Deco

    The other thing that Day became known for during the second part of her life, taking care of dogs and cats, recalls to mind a much quoted statement that perhaps summarized her personal philosophy:

    “The more I see of men, the better I like my dog.”

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  20. Actually, Terry Melcher was adopted by her 3rd husband, not second. And Doris Day’s private life was a trainwreck. Her first husband abused her physically, her second husband wasn’t terrible so she divorced him, her third husband was a controlling abusive guy who screwed her movie career for his own personal advancement. Everyone hated him.

    Terry Melcher had a fairly decent music production career in the 60s and 70s, when it was easy to get into. But he was content to live by managing his mom’s money for the last half of his life. By the way, I just read a Manson bio that categorically rejects his denials. He did sleep with Manson’s women, and that’s the reason he and Dennis Wilson tolerated the nutjob.

    I don’t know why Doris was so estranged from her family. She has always been obsessive–when she found something she liked, she did only that forever. I’ve heard both that she was a recluse and that she had large birthday parties.

    She was never particularly happy, so it’s nice at least that she kept her health. She aged fantastically, even in her 90s she looked late 70s. And yes, she had a stunning figure and most of her co-stars thought she was the hottest woman they’d ever worked with.

    Best Doris Day movies:

    Love Me Or Leave Me–Jimmy Cagney plus Doris singing really well
    Thrill of It All, with James Garner, which I like much better than…
    Pillow Talk–still quite funny, but very best scene, with piano singer, doesn’t involve Day at all
    Young at Heart–this is a sappy movie, but Frank in particular sings beautifully.
    Man Who Knew Too Much–well, sure, but it’s weak Hitchcock.
    Teacher’s Pet–I may be alone in liking this, but apart from the goofy premise, it’s not bad at all, and Gig Young is fantastic (which he also is in Young At Heart).

    Most of the rest aren’t that interesting, although Calamity Jane and Pajama Game were big hits.

  21. My mother, meeting one of my flashier girlfriends, remarked, “You either fall for a girl like your mother, or a girl who is the opposite of your mother.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  22. @Reg Cæsar

    Steady on, there, with the Anthology collection released in the ’90’s, and other collections released on iTunes, the Beatles remain the one group of history that Millennials and Zoomers have definitely heard of and can name more than a few songs. They still listen to the Beatles, unlike tin pan alley.
    Tin Pan Alley is old; the Beatles live forever.

    Plus, Paul MacCartney is still very much alive and touring so it keeps the memory of the Beatles fresh into the 21st Century.

  23. J1234 says:

    Doris was one of those famous actresses that American pre-teens of the 60’s knew as middle aged moms on TV, but who were cast just a decade or so earlier (just few years in her case) as beautiful leading ladies in movies. When I was a kid, it was always a revelation to discover their “previous lives,” so to speak. Barbara Stanwyck and Donna Reed were other examples.

    Following a different train of thought, I have to wonder: If Taylor Swift is “aggressively white,” what would that make Doris Day? Something even more wonderful, I guess. Yes, RIP, Doris.

  24. @Art Deco

    Doris Day was limited on extended family, okay. The people down the street are churning out lots of kids, and likely will have extended family o’ plenty as time goes forward, but despite their fecundity, I don’t know their names now. Nor will I ever. Even though I only watched Doris Day films on the Turner old movie channel decades after they were made, I know Doris Day’s name. And I always admired her movies. They were mostly comedic, not intended to be heavy-weight intellectual fare. But the productions left a good feeling as intended. The decor retains in my mind in many cases. French Provincial fit Doris Day’s light, airy style so well. Few actresses have an identifiable style, probably because of the job description: chameleon. Audrey Hepburn did. Doris Day did, too.

  25. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco

    When you’ve had that many husbands AND nobody in your family is on speaking terms with you AND you are an “animal lover” like Hitler, this means that you have had “bad luck” with men in the same way that Communist countries always have “bad luck” with the crop harvest. This is not to take away from Day’s talents as an actress and singer (though I confess that she was never a personal favorite) but sometimes (often in fact) one of God’s little jokes is that he confers great beauty and talent on people who are not exactly Mother Teresa on the inside .

  26. hhsiii says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows

    He, or the protagonist, is a 19 year old check-out clerk at the A&P eyeballing 3 girls in the store in their swimsuits. The regal appearing one he dubs “Queenie” (and yes, up close he is not as impressed when they check-out) gets embarrassed when the manager tells them they have to wear more appropriate attire if they want to come back. The protagonist dramatically announces he is quitting because of the way the girl were treated. But the girls don’t even notice and have left.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  27. @Art Deco

    Seeing Steve’s post, i was thinking along these lines.

    I think Doris Day may well have been one of the many of these actresses who would have been much better off if Hollyweird and this whole “entertainment industry” never existed. She quite likely could have had a normal rewarding married-with-children life and spent her elder years happily visiting her many children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and having some of them with her at the end.

    Of course, she’s not alone and the insanity only seems to have ramped up–Sandra Bullock, Charlize Theron a couple that pop to mind for wasted lives (and wasted quality genes).

  28. IHTG says:

    I’m still upset about Peggy Lipton.

  29. @AnotherDad

    Of course, she’s not alone and the insanity only seems to have ramped up–Sandra Bullock, Charlize Theron a couple that pop to mind for wasted lives (and wasted quality genes).

    I’m still mourning the lost genes of Mary Ann – and Kylie Minogue, and Stevie Nicks.

    Doris could carry a grown up song though.

  30. J.Ross says: • Website

    Satisfied with their “Russian hackers” Reichstag fire that nobody bought but nobody fought, the Deep State raises its pseudo-private arms to bring down the hammer of flat-out political censorship.
    Notice the reliance on a party claiming to be an objective third party dedicated to research, just like the SPLC.
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/05/13/facebook-shuts-down-pro-populist-italian-pages-before-eu-elections/

    Facebook has shut down 23 major populist Italian pages with 2.5 million followers just two weeks before the European elections.
    According to Italian media, the majority of the pages supported the populist parties La Lega (The League) and the 5-Star Movement (M5S) — who currently govern Italy in a temporary coalition.

    Facebook has justified its dramatic move by claiming that the sites shared fake news, so-called “hate speech”, and “divisive content” regarding immigrants, vaccines, and Jewish people.

    Facebook used information from a report produced by a left-progressive NGO called Avaaz, which deals with “human rights” and environmental campaigns.

    “We thank Avaaz for sharing its research so we could investigate,” said a Facebook spokesperson. “We are committed to protecting the integrity of the EU elections and around the world. We have removed a series of false and duplicate accounts that violated our policies on the subject of authenticity, as well as several pages for violation of the policy on changing the name.”

    “We have also taken action against some pages that have repeatedly spread misinformation. We will take further measures if we find other violations,” the spokesperson warned.


    SERVES THEM RIGHT
    THEY TRUSTED ZUCK

  31. syonredux says:

    Off-topic: Morrissey has some rather un-PC opinions:

    JOHN: London has become a murder capital recently.

    MORRISSEY: London is debased. The Mayor of London tells us about ”Neighborhood policin ” – what is ‘policin’? He tells us London is an ”amazin ” city. What is ‘amazin’? This is the Mayor of London! And he cannot talk properly! I saw an interview where he was discussing mental health, and he repeatedly said ”men’el ” … he could not say the words ‘mental health’. The Mayor of London! Civilisation is over!

    JOHN: But why do you think so many people are being killed in London?

    MORRISSEY: London is second only to Bangladesh for acid attacks. All of the attacks are non-white, and so they cannot be truthfully addressed by the British government or the Met Police or the BBC because of political correctness. What this means is that the perpetrator is considered to be as much of a victim as the actual victim. We live in the Age of Atrocity.

    https://www.morrisseycentral.com/messagesfrommorrissey/there-is-a-light-that-must-be-switched-on

  32. syonredux says:
    @AnotherDad

    Of course, she’s not alone and the insanity only seems to have ramped up–Sandra Bullock, Charlize Theron a couple that pop to mind for wasted lives (and wasted quality genes).

    Indeed……

  33. Kyle says:
    @South Texas Guy

    The Rolling Stones are fine but you haven’t listened to every Beatles record if you don’t “get what they’re all about.”

    • Replies: @South Texas Guy
  34. Not Raul says:
    @Toddy Cat

    I agree.

    I guess Updike was the horndog with a heart of gold.

  35. @Jack D

    Jack, too funny, nice analogy.

  36. Liza says:

    What tripe. Doris deserves much better than that.

  37. @education realist

    As a child I enjoyed “That Touch of Mink” for the clothes and sets and Horn and Hardart’s, and as a teenager for locating a reference to it in “Confederacy of Dunces,” but was astonished to find on re-viewing a few years ago that the treatment of Gig Young’s character was prompting almost “woke” feelings (what’s happening to me?). Also, Doris was pretty cruel to the Addams family guy. I mean, it’s key to the plot of this silly movie, but nonetheless doesn’t quite work with her being Our Sweetheart. Also, she’s so old that chaste reads more like frigid. “Young at Heart” is dark Doris – or rather, Doris is a sweet ray of sunshine to Frank’s “I’m doomed” drumbeat (he’s also at his most charismatic in this odd movie).

    I do believe that Hollywood suppressed Doris’s beauty in some weird way. Photos show her looking even better as she gets older and is out of movies. Softer clothes, blond hair framing her face. In some of her 40s/50s films, they’ve got her hair platinumed and cut so short, with a little curl in front, that she kinda looks like a big Gerber baby.

  38. I love the old movies and old stars and that’s not because I am old. They had story lines and great acting and no special effects to turn fantasy into reality. Some of the actresses from days gone by were drop dead gorgeous, at least to me. I watched a movie with Claudette Colbert the other night and she was stunning. My favorite was Ann Sheridan, Google her in “The Man Who Came to Dinner.” Wow.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Perplexed
    , @Kylie
  39. anon[833] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    wow, isn’t he a musician or something?

    how soon till (((they))) blackball him from the industry?

  40. @South Texas Guy

    She had a screwed-up personal life. Born surnamed “Kappelhoff” (not the kind of surname which cut ice in 1940s Hollywood), her only offspring, Terry Melcher, a rock producer associated with the Beach Boys (talk about screwed up), died in his early 60s. She went through four husbands. I never understood the deal with Rock Hudson whose gaiety was an open secret in Hollywood and who paid the price in the end. Her father was allegedly a philanderer, but then again so was she. Who knows?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  41. Cara not Clara, and ends at “time” — no Irene Dunne line. Endpoint, pp 37-8, Alfred A. Knopf, 2009.

  42. Truth says:
    @AnotherDad

    She quite likely could have had a normal rewarding married-with-children life and spent her elder years happily visiting her many children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and having some of them with her at the end.

    {Cough…cough} Er, probably not, Old Sport.

  43. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    Man, you guys can’t get through a post on Doris Day, without bringing up your dusky-skinned obsession.

  44. @Days of Broken Arrows

    I hunted down that short story on my bookshelf (in a collection called John Updike: Early Stories) and read it again! Yes, there are some slight parallels to the poem – the kind of mild infatuation that a 1950s teenager like Updike would experience. A lovely short story. Doris Day certainly fits the bill for that short story’s beautiful classy girl.

  45. ricpic says:

    Updike’s right. She had IT.

  46. MEH 0910 says:
    @Jack D

    AND you are an “animal lover” like Hitler

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Day#Animal_welfare_activism

    Day was a vegetarian.[132]

    • Replies: @Flip
  47. MEH 0910 says:
    @syonredux

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  48. Flip says:

    This shows how assimilated German Americans are. She was born von Kappelhoff and her ancestry is not even worth mentioning in most articles.

    • Replies: @Lloyd1927
  49. dearieme says:

    She sang gloops of that appalling pop music that was around in my childhood – God, I loathed it.

    On the other hand I saw her in Calamity Jane; she carried it off very well.

  50. @syonredux

    Its sad that Theron thinks that stuff like this will some how prolong her career, are bints like this so dim that they don’t know what got them the part in the first place, isn’t one of her kids trans now too, amazing

    Its interesting that her ex got married and already has two children of his own

  51. donut says:
    @Jack D

    If you don’t have anything nice to say then say nothing at all .

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  52. peterike says:

    And then she married that Jewish guy…

    When her third husband Martin Melcher died on April 20, 1968, a shocked Day discovered that Melcher and his business partner Jerome Bernard Rosenthal had squandered her earnings, leaving her deeply in debt.

  53. Vinteuil says:
    @syonredux

    Indeed……

    I hope to live to see the spate of “mommy dearest” memoirs that will be the ultimate issue of the current virtue-signaling adopt-a-thon going on amongst such folk.

    • LOL: Bubba
    • Replies: @Lugash
  54. Vinteuil says:
    @syonredux

    Good for Morrissey.

    I’m not much into pop tunes, but “How soon is now” once caught my attention.

  55. J.Ross says: • Website
    @syonredux

    Gosh, they need to eliminate legal gun ownership.

  56. J.Ross says: • Website

    I’ve been dreaming of a time when
    to be English
    is not to be painful
    to be standing by the flag
    not feeling shameful
    racist or partial

  57. Vinteuil says:

    Steve Sailer’s buddy Mark Steyn has the best take on Doris Day (a.k.a. Kappelhoff):

    https://www.steynonline.com/9381/every-dog-should-have-his-day

    • Replies: @bored identity
  58. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    A great pop/jazz singer, although she recorded many things that were far below her. The “Day By Day” and “Day By Night” albums show her voice at its best with good songs and accompaniment.

  59. Poetry that doesn’t rhyme–ain’t
    Poets that don’t write in rhyme–cain’t

  60. OT:

    Today’s badwhite bashing from the NYT:

    They Were Promised Coding Jobs in Appalachia. Now They Say It Was a Fraud.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/us/mined-minds-west-virginia-coding.html

  61. gp says:
    @education realist

    Doris gives 200% in Calamity Jane. It’s not a great movie, and is quite politically incorrect today, but she is radiant. I’m one of the few people who even knew she was still alive yesterday.

  62. Anon7 says:

    OT: The Elizabeth Holmes mystery, from Psychology Today:

    …alarm bells were repeatedly ignored by highly successful men, including George Schulz, James Mattis, Henry Kissinger, and Rupert Murdoch, to name but a few. Each time things turned dicey, Holmes would turn the tide following one-on-one meetings where she presumably provided reassurance that the company was sound and the promised miracle product on track. These men are skilled in the board room, on the battle field, and as political leaders. So how could this happen? One explanation is very simple. Elizabeth was convincing because she was a beautiful woman who dressed, talked, and acted like a man.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sexx-matters/201905/did-elizabeth-holmes-delude-smart-men-acting-man?amp

  63. In the long run, Doris Day will be remembered more for her music, much more than for her movies. I’m sure Mark Steyn will have something more memorable to say on this topic.

  64. Anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Linda Darnell for my money, Mr. Joe.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  65. J.Ross says: • Website

    “The government’s job is to protect citizens from all these things.”

    The Committee for the Elimination of Freedom of Speech and the End of Political Change
    http://archive.is/MnPuX

    Yeah, Trump. I think that this stuff is really shaping everything. I was just with Frank Luntz down in the Milken Conference and even he’s saying, “This is not good. We have to have a reconciliation. We have to realize that we can’t keep going in this direction. We have to reverse the polarization.”

    A nonprofit (that is, the clawed hand of a billionaire hidden in a kid glove) pushes for a dramatic ramping-up in already high-geared internet censorship.

  66. America will never be great again without a Doris Day.

  67. @Prester John

    Didn’t know that Doris was so, er, well endowed. I recall reading years ago that she also had an affair with Hall of Fame shortstop Maury Wills (allegedly about whom the word “short” stopped below the waistline) but according to Wiki she denied this in her autobio, claiming (according to Wiki) “it was probably advanced by the Dodgers organization for publicity purposes.” This is unlikely but…whatever.

    I could’ve sworn I read somewhere that Doris Day and her father were long estranged because she didn’t approve of his remarriage to a black woman and refused to attend the ceremony.

  68. RJJCDA says:

    Had a good friend (since passed) who did some TV and movies back decades ago. He was a war vet, and an honorable man as all who knew him would attest. He told a couple of us that he had had a six month affair with Doris Day. He said that she had freckles on her b..t.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    , @Anonymous
  69. Anon[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Yeah, but most men don’t realize that until it’s too late.

  70. Graham Chapman in the Monty Python Hollywood Mogul-surrounded by Yes Men Skit:”Rock Duckson……And Doris Dog who piddles on a tree….”

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  71. 216 says:

    lol

    h/t Nick Fuentes

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  72. @Buzz Mohawk

    Hmm… That’s interesting. So there really was sex before we were born.

    Larkin was not for real? Could it be?…

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  73. @syonredux

    That Morrissey interview is from last year. He did pen “National Front Disco”, so maybe he is disgusted by London becoming a third world sh*thole.

  74. J.Ross says: • Website
    @216

    Imagine if “anti-Semitism” had not been dishonestly defined as criticizing Israel …

  75. @Vinteuil

    (a.k.a. Kappelhoff)

    Probably the world’s second worst choice of last name for the Showbiz – just next to Schicklgruber.

    • Replies: @utu
  76. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    College Struggles to Meet Surging Demand for Mental Health Support

    https://middleburycampus.com/45300/news/college-struggles-to-meet-surging-demand-for-mental-health-support/

    There’s a graph showing a doubling of counseling appointments over the last decade.

    The interviews with students makes it sound like some of it is that going to a college psychologist is sort of like a New Yorker or Angeleno going to a therapist: It’s just a paid friend to chit chat with. “Whenever I started having flare-ups, it’s like, wow, I really need to talk to someone about this right now.”

    I wonder how much of this is … “gender” related? Or whether increasing numbers of mismatched affirmative action admittees just get stressed out because they realize, consciously or subconsciously, that they don’t belong in college and are not going to succeed and they’ll be saddled with debt.

    I’ve noticed that most WE DEMAND manifestos include demands for more counseling, including intersectional counselors (e.g., black woman, femme lesbian). The Middlebury article quotes the mental health people as being reluctant to just hire more psychologists, because they see it as an unquenchable demand. No matter how many they hire students will still complain about not getting appointments. They want residental staff and other to be trained to head things off.

  77. RIP indeed. I have large standards/Big Band LP and 78 collection which include a few Doris Days, and some of her earlier singles with Les Brown’s Orchestra.

    My Doris favorites were:

    “Moonlight Bay”

    and

    “Let’s Fly Away”

    Rest in peace and thanks for the music. So much better than the third world dreck put out today.

  78. Perplexed says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Myrna Loy, Ida Lupino. A great beauty of more recent vintage: Tuesday Weld.

  79. @donut

    donut, Best line from Disney’s “Bambi.”

  80. @South Texas Guy

    It’s easy to read too much into that sort of thing. That Dinah Shore-type character had to be in there somewhere for her to play it so well in public and on the silver screen.

  81. @Anonymous

    Anon, we can double date.

  82. @RJJCDA

    RJ, An honorable man never would have told you that story,

  83. @hhsiii

    Wonder if a certain Dr. Blasey Ford is familiar with this story?

  84. @Perplexed

    Perplexed, nice selection, but don’t be greedy. Pick one.And, until my wife took me to Jamestown, NY, who knew Lucille Ball was so pretty.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  85. anon[833] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    one of God’s little jokes is that he confers great beauty and talent on people who are not exactly Mother Teresa on the inside

    how do you suppose they got that way?

  86. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    My whole impression of Doris Day until this moment was that of a pure-as-snow lady who could not possibly have had a jut-butt and swaddled breasts. Even the name “Doris Day” cannot possibly belong to a lady who fucks.

    She was in fact said to be the best fuck in Hollywood by more than one man in a position to know.
    Monroe was alleged to be hotter but often a dead fish, and reputedly not clean sometimes either.

    She won in the sense she made a pile of money, retired young and lived her life on her own terms thereafter. My mother said of such women that “they did alright for a girl”. She was happy on her own terms. I’m sure losing her only child was a terrible blow but she endured it better than many-look at Debbie Reynolds who dropped dead, essentially, when her daughter died.

    My friend Debbie Harry wanted to star in a biopic as Doris at one time but that didn’t wind up happening, due to circumstances I won’t get into. The truth is she always regarded Doris as more of a role model than she ever did Marilyn Monroe, partly because Day survived and Monroe, admittedly far more beautiful, did not. In the late 70s when she as having her commercial success in the US-now she’s only known here in New York and among a gay fan base-she was being mcalled the “Monroe of punk”, which was bullshit on both fronts, she nevr was punk in the true sense nor was she a damn thing like Monroe, but was a lot like Day in some ways. Day of course had a way better film career, and truthfully was a little better actress, but not by much.

    Madonna by contrast latched on to MM as a role model like Joe Perry did Keith Richards, and with similar outcomes artistically. Madge knew how to push buttons though, and she’s a billionairess. That, I guess, is doing alright for a girl too.

  87. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Doris finished the movie MM started and died before finishing, with James Garner instead of Dean Martin. It was one of Day’s better roles but Monroe’s would have been the better version from what footage exists.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  88. A great entertainer for way back when America was great. Then: Doris Day. Today: Nipsey Hussle, Michael Jackson, Kardashian, and assorted other weirdos. I think it was better back then.

  89. @Perplexed

    Myrna Loy, Ida Lupino. A great beauty of more recent vintage: Tuesday Weld.

    LOL

    Just how old is the average iSteve commenter?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Lurker
  90. Flip says:
    @MEH 0910

    Living to 97 as a vegetarian sounds pretty good. Paul McCartney seems pretty youthful too.

  91. @Prester John

    Rock Hudson whose gaiety was an open secret

    Gayness, please. Gay has been ruined. Let’s not do the same with the wonderful gaiety as well.

    Indeed, the two nouns are quite useful in clarifying which meaning a speaker intends. In the Flintstones’ case, it’s clearly gaiety:

    • Replies: @Dtbb
  92. Who knew that Asian-Americans (other than our own beloved Twinkie) were into the tinfoil hat thing?

    Note the very last thing the kid says. Is that “problematic”, or what?

    By the way, this is tangentially on-topic, because it was the YouTube ad paying for my Flintstones’ clip. So, Doris>Rock>”gay”>Fred>Tyler the Alien. See the chain?

  93. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    European ova are a precious commodity.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  94. Lugash says:
    @Vinteuil

    We’ll be the only ones to read them. From this and other threads, reading (auto)biographies of faded stars seems to be a shared alt-right interest.

  95. utu says:
    @bored identity

    Except that the story goes that her name (Kappelhoff) sounded too Jewish.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Jack D
  96. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Tin Pan Alley is old; the Beatles live forever.

    I agree that the Beatles will last, but calling Tin Pan Alley “old” is like calling Johann Sebastian Bach “dead”, as he was for decades. There is more than enough quality to spark a revival once taste itself is revived.

    Here are some of the Beatles’ contemporaries doing TPA and Broadway tunes:

    These were written at the time, but obviously based on an earlier style:

    Here’s Paul himself doing a Warren-Dubin classic five years older than he:

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Reg Cæsar
  97. @Jack D

    Exactly.

    Sounds like Day had some sort of BPD or bipolar thing going on. Not surprising given her chosen career—actresses and singers are among the most unstable of people. Such women often push their sexuality/beauty to extremes and impulsively jump into bed with men, but then the men discover how brittle and tenuous their emotional state is. They estrange people from them and then blame everyone else for being estranged.

    Such women retreat into animals, who can be cuddled or tossed aside at a moment’s notice and don’t experience the hurt feelings normal humans do or demand accountability—hence why such women “like” animals more than humans.

    RIP Doris. Here’s hoping you found heavenly peace before death.

  98. @Cagey Beast

    An Irving Berlin tune. Written for a Lindsey and Crouse show.

    Crouse named his daughter Lindsey Ann Crouse– ha ha– and her maternal grandfather wrote this classic essay:

    The Moral Obligation To Be Intelligent
    by John Erskine

  99. @syonredux

    European ova are a precious commodity.

    Eurova?

  100. Ragno says:

    It’s funny: I never cared for her as an actress – perhaps as a result of that, I’m completely oblivious to whatever bad marriages and notorious affairs she did or didn’t have. I watched/obsessed over too many old movies in the first place without adding to the total with the dead weight of very many Rock Hudson vehicles, which made it even less likely that I’d warm up to Doris.

    Now Doris the singer – whole other story. A standout, even in an era when American music yielded up a ridiculous number of great female voices. About a million miles and a million years away from our own pop-music landscape, dominated as it is by the whore/diva type.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  101. Luke Lea says:

    Updike was a pretty good poet too. The most talented wordsmith since Shakespeare perhaps?

  102. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Maybe, and maybe not. Maybe wanting children is an important thing to select for in keeping the herd healthy, birthworthy and wanting to continue its long term existence. Doris had the one kid she did because kids were simply an unavoidable consequence of sex then. Maybe it’s better for some barren does to be barren does.

    On the other hand a lot of potential good mothers were barren does because they bought in to the feminist horseshit of the last half century.

    Citing Sandra Bullock is funny because though I don’t believe it there is a persistent rumor that she is a biological male. Or a Jamie Lee intersex (again, is JLC really that? Only her doctors know for sure any more).

  103. ziel says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows

    Indeed – and bra-less. Ah, the Seventies.

    And don’t forget to check out Rodney a bit later in the show – a bit of his main act got cut out, but he stilled killed it on “the panel” – and you can hear Doris cackling in the background the whole time.

  104. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Gerry and the Pacemakers’ version of “You’ll Never Walk Alone” has taken on a huge life of its own via FC Liverpool.

  105. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    I live in Japan, and it seems like a lot of beautiful or personable actresses end up unmarried and childless. We think of things like writing or academia or law or medicine as places where women get immersed in their “careers” and somehow forget about marriage and children. But actresses (“female actors” for the younger set) also have that problem.

    In Japan the pattern may contain some or all of the following patterns:

    — Discovered or scouted in one’s teens or tweens

    — Education is truncated: only a high school education or less, with that sometimes being at a special school for kids who would have trouble in regular schools; no close school friends to turn to later in life

    — Hanging around entertainment industry adults a lot, less around kids; cannot really go out in public or meet people outside of the entertainment industry

    — Discouraged by managers from dating when young because image depends on male fans’ fantasies, so remains naive about relationships even when older (also applies to male stars to a lesser extent)

    — If marries, often marries a rock singer, dancer, professional surfer or similar bad boy type, who often has dubious financial prospects beyond leveraging the reputation of the wife; maybe a kid results, then divorce

    There are exceptions of course.

    But the other day a quite attractive never married actress perhaps in her late 40s just broke down crying on the air during a talk show when the dicussion started to veer into this territory.

    I have a certain amount of sympathy when I hear of American actresses, and actors, who seem to get entangled in relationships that from the outside just seem like trouble. They may be rich, but they are imprisoned in a way by their fame. All possible partners are in the industry, and in trying to go outside the industry, everyone has an angle, and it’s too late to try to form normal relationships with normal people.

  106. the Beatles live forever.

    Maybe. But the Beatles wrote ditties while the Stones wrote songs. Hell, I’d take Herman’s Hermits over the Beatles. ‘Hey Jude,’ ‘Yesterday,’ ‘Imagine (I know solo, but still),’ ‘Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely hearts club band,’ all crap. Ridiculously overpraised crap.

    The reason the Beatles live on with Millennials is that they are young and glom on to old ‘cool’ stuff.

  107. @Anon

    Generally speaking, an actress’s career peaks in her 30s, so there’s a big financial and career momentum cost to take a year off to have a baby, and a sizable risk that your figure will never be the same afterwards.. I’m rather surprised by how many actresses take time off for children.

  108. @Truth

    The dusky-skinned ones obsess an awful lot about the white women.

    But hey, you do you, little one.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Father O'Hara
  109. @Anon

    I knew an actress about 15 years ago who had one son about 10 and she was having a surrogate gestate another of her eggs for her at the time. She had an extremely handsome husband who was about 10 years younger than her. She was kind of all-around better and lived life on a bigger scale than normal human beings.

    Her career is still going strong at present in her 60s.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  110. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Miss Day was like Brigitte Bardot in this respect. BB has been very involved for many years in animal-focused causes. But I think Bardot married again a few years ago, so maybe she hasn’t given up completely on men.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  111. @Anon

    Societally speaking, it’s not the worse thing in the world for today’s successful actresses to be barren. Given the severe mental and emotional problems such women have, and given how the most successful ones not only have such problems, but also have had to do ridiculously perverted things for many men they find disgusting to get/remain on top, these women are “not the mothering type” to an extreme. Even among dear old traditionalist Japanese. Mommie Dearest, anyone?

    By being barren, you avoid the children being abused by a mentally-messed up mommy, and also avoid passing on the defective genes that led her to being an actress in the first place.

    Of course, it’s sad when you realize the individual beautiful genes of a Theron or a Bullock will not be passed on. In a healthier society, their actress-desires would be suppressed by peer pressure, and we’d have them in therapy early to fix their problems and hopefully make good wives out of them.

    But our society encourages the attention-grabbing behavior that leads such sick women into acting and exacerbates and exploits their issues, and doesn’t look down on the profession any more. As such, in the current situation, from a strictly secular point of view, these women being barren is best.

  112. Alfa158 says:
    @Truth

    Yeah no kidding, it’s almost as irrational as that Germanic obsession Poland had back in 1939.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    , @Truth
  113. @Alfa158

    Germany: “Hey Poland, let’s just trade all your land for this crappy toxic waste dump we’ve got!”

    Poland:”Are you crazy? Get away from our land!”

    Germany: “You racist! Time for some enforced diversity!”

    I’m going to hear this conversation in my head from now on whenever people talk about how great the push on interracial dating is. Seriously, blacks and browns trying to share their far inferior women with whites and yellows in return for our sharing our women is the height of a bad deal. You’d have to fall off a turnip truck or be brainwashed to think it s a good deal for the latter.

  114. @Kyle

    The Beatles were on the crest of a wave. A very big wave to be sure. I asked my parents about it, and they said it was a big deal when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan. Neither had TVs, so they went to neighbors houses to watch.

    Dad’s come around to the fact that there were better bands out there, but at the time, they were the cat’s ass.

    If you don’t believe my wave supposition, Brittney Spears is worth $250 million. Not sure what Katy Perry is worth. Or, Detroit white boy, what’s his name, oh, Slim Shady.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  115. Strangely enough I was just listening to a selection of Day’s greatest hits on Alexa last week–good stuff.

    She went on the road with a band at the age of 17, but her purity was unsullied.

    Now she is snatched from us at the age of 97! Whatever will be, will be.

  116. Truth says:
    @R.G. Camara

    Not nearly as much as you betas obsess about their obsessing, trust me on this one, Old Sport.

    But hey, i consider unz.com the best afrophile site on the web. Your grammar is generally superior to that of the Black- run afrophile sites, so that’s a major +.

  117. Truth says:
    @Alfa158

    Probably more inline with Boy George’s, and your slavemaster’s obsession with WMDs in 2002. And equally as fruitful.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Reg Cæsar
  118. Doris Day’s films I never cared for, but her singing was quite charming even in her heyday when there were vocalists aplenty who actually sang lyrics so that listeners could understand them. My favorite of her numbers is “Secret Love,” which I play on guitar at least once a week (though my vocal accompaniment leaves more than a little something to be desired); its phrase “even told the golden daffodils” is exquisitely poignant.

    One of my fondest childhood memories is of listening to my mother singing along with “Que Sera Sera” when it played from the GE tube radio that perched atop our refrigerator.

    Oh, as far as bygone Hollywood in bygone America goes, my all-time favorite actress is Claudette Colbert.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  119. anon[833] • Disclaimer says:
    @South Texas Guy

    The Beatles were on the crest of a wave. A very big wave to be sure. I asked my parents about it, and they said it was a big deal when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan. Neither had TVs, so they went to neighbors houses to watch.

    the Beatles were fake, starting with that scene where they paid all those grade school girls to act hysterical at the sight of them

    btw, sheep:

    and they said it was a big deal when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan. Neither had TVs, so they went to neighbors houses to watch

    just what the oligarchs/elite want you to act like – “i’ve been told its a big deal, I believe it!!!”

  120. @Reg Cæsar

    How did I forget this ’60s Tin Pan revival?

  121. @Truth

    Probably more inline with Boy George’s, and your slavemaster’s obsession with WMDs in 2002. And equally as fruitful.

    Didn’t Mr O’Dowd himself attempt to enslave a Norwegian lad? To the Irish, revenge is a dish best served 1200 years cold.

    Boy George gets 15 months for falsely imprisoning male escort

    ‘Boy George ruined my life and never said sorry.. The BBC should be ashamed’: Says man singer held hostage and beat

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  122. @AnotherDad

    Updike’s review of Doris Day’s autobiography implies that she was a hard-charger who very much wanted to be a star and wouldn’t have been terribly happy with a more normal life.

  123. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Auntie Analogue

    One of my fondest childhood memories is of listening to my mother singing along with “Que Sera Sera” when it played from the GE tube radio that perched atop our refrigerator.

    I found a very nice wood cabinet GE tube radio in the dumpster of the local thrift store quite by chance a week ago and couldn’t resist filching it. It’s an AM/FM series string heater unit that needs refinishing but I already got it working again, had a cracked circuit board that needed jumpering probably from the fall into the dumpster. I don’t make a habit of dumpstering but I’m glad I found it.

    I also bought a 10 LP box set of instrumental easy listening instrumental covers of songs of the time ( somewhere circa 1961) in the store. They wanted $3.50 but I Presbyterianed them down to $2.75. The records are all mint unplayed 60s vinyl and great for testing , breaking in or setting up turntables. Problem is I don’t even HAVE a turntable right now!

  124. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @South Texas Guy

    The Beatles had Lennon-McCartney as a team, who were like the Good Kirk and Bad Kirk in that episode of Star Trek where the transporter split them into two people. Also George Harrison, who had his moments. In a lot of ways they were the cat’s ass, but the Rolling Stones, the Who, and arguably the Kinks were better when viewed as just rock and roll bands.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  125. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buck Ransom

    Bardot has not aged all that well.

  126. Who’s the most popular personality…

  127. @Anonymous

    But, for the entire 20th century, only one group outsold everyone else. The Beatles. At one time you could actually take the second thru fifth selling group, tally up their total global sales and it still wouldn’t surpass the Beatles.

  128. Dtbb says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The roller skating rink in my town was known way back when as the Gay Way Palace. Now it’s a Salvation Army thrift store.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  129. @War for Blair Mountain

    Splunge for me too! Good! Now we’re gettin’ somewhere!

  130. @Buck Ransom

    She’d put on a little weight, at that point, in her retirement. I recall noticing that aspect around the same time, when I saw her on another show, possibly the late Tom Snyder’s show, Tomorrow, on NBC, right after Johnny.

    Updike also got her age wrong. She was born in 1922. Funny thing is, when her mind started going on her, she started saying she’d been born in 1924. I heard an interview with her years ago, possibly conducted by Jonathan Schwartz, in which the interviewer brought this to her attention.

  131. @Luke Lea

    “Updike was a pretty good poet too. The most talented wordsmith since Shakespeare perhaps?”

    Surely Nabokov is better, although I do like Updike’s style. I’m not sure I actually like his characters, but you can say the same of Nabokov. Like Nabokov, some of his phrases stay with you.

    OT, but I see David Brooks has a new book out on how to be a better person once you’ve traded in the mother of your kids for a younger model.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/may/14/the-second-mountain-quest-for-moral-life-david-brooks-review

  132. @Days of Broken Arrows

    Oh my…she was 52 in that clip, but I could swear she looks like 35-40. Double D was scorchingly HOT in that guest appearance; clearly they had the A/C cranked up in the studio…

  133. @South Texas Guy

    But then again, this is not from my generation. I still don’t get what the Beatles hubbub was all about. The Rolling Stones, and maybe others, were clearly a better rock group.

    Better to understand from historical context. The Beatles arrived just as the first wave of American rock n’ roll had shot its bolt (think Elvis, Little Richard, etc.) and splintered into sub-genres such as doo-wop (i.e. Frankie Valli et al), beach/surf (Beach Boys, Jan & Dean) and etc. They had the benefit of being “first-to-market” at this point (America was ready for something new and fresh), along with being naturally talented (all the Beatles were from working-class families, and were self-taught musicians), and from an “exotic” non-American (albeit the next closest thing) culture. Plus, they could write excellent, popularly appealing music. There were also two distinct phases of the Beatles, their early pop configuration, then their later evolution into what maybe you would recognize as “classic rock” where they fused a bunch of contemporary influences into their own new, unique sound. There was a bridge phase (characterized by the albums “Revolver” and “Rubber Soul”) where they started the experimentation; since they were at the pinnacle of popularity, everyone got to observe their change/shift and approve/disapprove/keep following or not in real time. Lots of bands have followed that model ever since.

    The Stones definitely had a sound with more rhythm and blues influence (even though both groups of musicians were profoundly influenced by American R&B) in it, with harder-edged guitars and song themes/lyrics. Both the Jagger/Richards and McCartney/Lennon songwriting duos are among the most prolific in rock music.

    As someone who came of age just after the Beatles broke up but at the height of their fame/popularity, I like them both, but for different reasons and tastes.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  134. @Captain Tripps

    America in the 1960s was really Anglophile. We’d won the Big One together, but then the Brits had been down and out for years due to being broke, but by the 1960s they were back with renewed energy. And suddenly Brits could get here quickly and safely due to jetliners and vice-versa. (I went to England in 1965 when I was six.)

    I’ve argued that 1960s electric guitar rock was kind of a delayed victory celebration for the Anglo-American allies.

    And, oh yeah, The Beatles were really good.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  135. @adreadline

    He was right with regard to 1963. At that point or thereabouts, it got easier to do things out in the open that people have always done.

  136. Brutusale says:
    @Buck Ransom

    Johnny had the air conditioning turned WAY up that day.

  137. Brutusale says:
    @Truth

    Well, she was complaining in the press recently about her lack of a love life. IIRC, she said no man has asked her out in about 10 years.

    Here’s your shot at the big time, Sport. If she can’t get a date in Hollyweird, the field is wide open!

    • Replies: @Truth
  138. @Luke Lea

    Updike was a pretty good poet too. The most talented wordsmith since Shakespeare perhaps?

    your voice peircing me like a silver arrow,

    But he couldn’t spell for salt water taffy.

    The first Updike book I ever read as a teenager was called “Couples” and had a main character called Piet Hanema, a second generation Dutchman. I wish now that I had known that his first name was pronounced Pete, but then it was a mystery to me and there was no one I could ask, or who would have known, so he was Pee-et to me.

    Aside from that, the book gave me my first ideas about life in America and about the secret world of adultery in my parent’s generation. It all seemed very strange and his New England did not sound much like my Olde Englande. The book did not make me want to come here.

  139. @Mr McKenna

    Right the Splunge skit…A terriffied Terry Jones shouted out SPLUNGE!!!!!…Then Graham Chapman’s insane character starts to psychotically talk about producing a movie where Doris Dog piddles on Rock Hudson’s leg….

    I should make SPLUNGE!!! my new handle…….

    Monty Python was massively influenced by the Irishman Spike Milligan…..

  140. @Brutusale

    Lots of SPLUNGE!!!! showing there…….

  141. Jack D says:
    @Brutusale

    Nothing about TV is subtle. Remember that in those days a lot of people were watching on blurry 12″ B&W TV sets (yes by 1974 you probably had a 23″ color console in the den but at night you might watch on a little portable set in your bedroom) so if you were going to discern that Doris Day was going BRALESS in the latest fashion (even though she was 52 and a bit old for that) or that Johnny was wearing a PLAID SUIT, it really had to STAND OUT so that the folks at home would be sure to see it. For the same reason, they would play back hit songs on a 4″ speaker in the studio to see how they would sound.

  142. Anon[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Carl Zimmer’s book went into surrogacy, and it’s a lot freakier than I had thought. There is a certain amount of permanent genetic transfer between the fetus and the surrogate. And of course the biome will be the surrogate’s, not the egg donor’s. The upshot of this is unclear, but the biome is coming to be thought of as increasingly important.

    One thing he didn’t cover, but which immediately occured to me is that a cesarian might have an incomplete microbiome compared to a vaginal birth, and looking now on Google I see this ia a topic, although I can’t immediately sort out what is parenting blog folklore from science. Apparently it’s hard to sort out because cesarian women routinely get antibiotics, which screw up both their and the baby’s microbiome.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  143. @Anon

    One exception to this syndrome of actresses sentenced to marrying men in the entertainment biz was Grace Kelly. When her engagement to Monaco’s Prince Rainier became public, Marilyn Monroe sent her a congratulatory note saying, basically, “I am so envious of how blessed you are, you found a way to escape from all this!”

  144. Jack D says:

    Be careful with that thing. A lot of them have unpolarized plugs and depending on which way you plug it in, the entire chassis is “hot” 120V all the time (even when it is turned off at the switch).

    On the one hand, American manufacturing was brilliant in getting costs down so that they could sell radios (and later TVs) by the millions and everyone could afford one but OTOH they took a lot of shortcuts to hit that price point. The “good old days” were really not that great. For those not familiar, “string heater” means that instead of using a(n expensive) transformer to get the line voltage down to a safe level, the manufacturers would string together the heater filaments of the tubes in series (like old Christmas lights) in such a way that their voltages summed to (around) 120V so that you could run the set directly off of the power coming out of the wall. Those wood cabinets weren’t just for show, they were also an insulating material to keep the consumer away from all that lethal voltage.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  145. @Anon

    The distinguished actress who came to our sons’ baseball team weenie roast in my backyard, who is currently appearing on Broadway as one of the world’s most famous women, looked amazing for her later 40s even though she was typecast in Hollywood as “plain.” According to my wife, she was paying a surrogate to gestate her child with her handsome 30-something husband. That seemed a little … Promethean to me, but knowing her, it also seemed like some people are simply entitled to live a larger life than us run-of-the-mill people.

  146. Truth says:
    @Brutusale

    I lived in Hollywood for 12 years, i can honestly say that every celebrity “female” (i.e. “woman” that I have met that you would recognize in an “A”, “B” or “C” level role) flirted with me. Arguably the world’s most famous “at the time” white actress during that era spent 5 minutes chatting me up in a supermarket and was visibly disappointed when I didn’t ask her out.

    I thought that it was odd at the time, but understand it now. I was selling cell phones for a living, and couldn’t get the barista next door at Starbucks to $%^& me.

  147. Anon[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I’ve been slowly coming around to the view that most of this nouveau reproductive technology should be more tightly controlled: surrogates, sperm banking, all the shit that gays do. This has never been looked at, ethically, from the point of view of the kid. It’s always what is convenient for the parent. Most of the kids turn out fine, but I’ve been dipping into forums where some of these frankenbabies gather, and many are pretty screwed up and in pain over their origin story. Kids without fathers or mothers, by design, kids whose mom outsourced the pregnancy, kids who discover they have literally hundreds of half siblings after runing a 23 & Me, etc.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Desiderius
  148. @Anon

    Mid-century adoption agencies are now highly out of favor even though they seemed pretty conscientious and reasonable. So it’s hardly unlikely that people in the future will blame their unhappiness on early 21st Century fertility technologies.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  149. @Truth

    Okay, Truth, I admit I get tired of your idee fixe, even though I admire it for its originality, but if you want to be more forthcoming with specific anecdotes (even if you leave it vague whether you are talking about JR or MS), maybe …

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Reg Cæsar
  150. Liza says:

    Tsk tsk. What is it about (most) white people that they get so exercised over a pair of nipples and breasts in general.

    Whether it’s poor Doris Day on the Johnny Carson Show or some poor woman here in Amerika trying to breastfeed in public, the eyeballs start popping and low-level exegesis ensues. I’d opine that maybe some guys were either not nursed at all or weaned too early, but that would just be pop psychology.

    • Replies: @Dr. Mabuse
  151. Truth says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, I wish my idea was original, it is actually quite moldy as it has been active for 5,000 years. The word “occult” means “hidden” nothing more. I am not sure what you mean by JR and MS, but I will put it like this; The Matrix, was almost a documentary written in the form of Hollywood fiction. I am a tall, good-looking guy, but was never especially sought-after by women, and had to work hard to get laid, when I was into that. However, when I say that EVERY Hollywood actress black, and white that I recognized, flirted with me over a decade plus in Hollywood, this is not an exaggeration. I’m talking about from sisters on the televised “chitlin circuit”, to white guest actresses on Seinfeld and “The Shield”, to the type who got their pictures inside People magazine, to those who got their pictures on the cover! And I was not a celebrity stalker who went out in Beverly Hills looking for these people.

    I know another D-list black actor (meaning he get’s 8th billing in a Van-Damme or Michael Madsen straight-to-video movie once a year, and works security in a bar) who has probably been with 8 or 9 white “female” sex symbols (I know this for a fact) and has in fact lived with a few of them for a few months. I never got it then, but I get it now.

    The bottom line, Steve, was encapsulated by the great Arthur Schopenhauer:

    “All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as self-evident.”

    Now, I am aware that you are an old guy, and you may not make it to stage 3, but mark my words it is inevitable. It is already happening on this very board, as post #110 will attest.

    I was studying around the margins of this subject a few years ago overseas when one day, standing in front of the women’s magazine section, i realized that EVERY face looking back at me was male. I was physically ill for 3 days, then found a Chaplin to help me convert to Christianity.

    Now I am not sure if you want me to actually name names, trust me, I could but I won’t for two reasons.
    1. Being lusted after by the “people” that you guys lust after is not source of pride to me.
    2. I’m old-fashioned in some ways, and it just isn’t gentlemanly.

    The bottom line about all this stuff is that the rather simple Niggaz-Vs Crakaz stuff you guys espouse here on a never-ending basis, is just layers of distraction from our real issues…

    “Niggaz are moving everywhere!”
    Yep, your slavemasters have already decided upon this course of action, and there is nothing you can do about it, because you already gave them all of the power, for a three-bedroom house and a flat-screen TV.

    “The population of Africa will be 100 Billion by next March!!!”
    How the fuck do you know, oh, because one of “them” told you, great, makes sense.

    The bottom line, Steve-O is that we are at war, the reason this war is so one sided is that the bad guys know against whom they are fighting, and the “good” guys are told by the bad guys whom they are fighting.

    Even at your advanced age, my friend, you can join the advanced revolution (and battling the transpocalypse is a major part of it) or you can keep firing your weapon into the ground, and hoping not to hit your foot.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @ziel
  152. @Truth

    Probably more inline with Boy George’s

    I didn’t know Boy George was a skater.

    • Replies: @Truth
  153. @Steve Sailer

    actress… weenie roast…

    Congratulations. You’ve encapsulated the #MeToo movement in three words.

    • LOL: Kylie
  154. @Jonathan Mason

    your voice peircing me like a silver arrow,

    But he couldn’t spell for salt water taffy.

    Oh? Tying together philosophical pragmatist Charles Sanders Peirce and most unpragmatic German race cars is pretty deft of him.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  155. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    ” Tin pan alley is old; the Beatles live forever”

    This is just about the silliest remark I have encounterd in eons on the net.

    Nobody but nobody , including the Beatles, and I am in fact a big Beatles fan, however nobody will ever again come up with such musical gems as ” Stardust” or “The way you look tonight”, or “I remember April” and the myriad of other marvelous Tin Pan Alley jewels.

    Myself as pro jazz player have gone through the Great American Songbook through the last fifty years and the tunes, starting with “I’ll be seeing you” still thrill me.

    For my druthers the Beatles tune “If I fell” was their very best.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army vet and pro jazz artist.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
  156. @Steve Sailer

    You triggered an old memory. When I was about 7,pre-Beatles, there was a tv show we liked called “Fair Exchange ” about an English student coming here. His name was Neville,but I heard it as Nipple. I found him and the Brits very interesting.
    I also remember my Aunt Peggy,who spent the war there,telling us a story of Churchill meeting some important statesman or someone.
    Churchie presented himself stark naked,proclaiming,”I have nothing to hide.”
    The story,if true,probably in reality,involved some alcohol and a young scullery maid,but still Winnie was thought of as quite a great figure… I guess.
    As for the Beatles, I love these guys trying to retcon reality. “Yeah the Who was better,man!” Or,”They weren’t that good; BLANK was really better!”
    No. The Beatles were the best,period. The Stones certainly knew that and were no doubt grateful for the opportunity the Beatles gave them.
    To be fair,tho, I still recall a very brief interlude where some questioned who was better,the Beatles or the Dave Clark Five!
    Lastly, I think the assassination of JFK played a role in Beatle hysteria. It was perhaps a way out of the gloomy misery of not having him on TV but only seeing LBJ.

    • Agree: Nicholas Stix
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Father O'Hara
  157. @Truth

    I totally believe you, as myself, and I consider myself to be quite ugly, I realized as a young guy that most men are terrified of beautiful gals, and all you have to do is just make your play and they will fall all over themselves to get together with you, and of course nobody will believe this but my humble self has been seen in the company of raving beauties, including my present wife, shes coming up in age now, however still quite gorgeous, for my entire existance.

    AJM

    • Agree: Truth
  158. @R.G. Camara

    But Truth. I thought they are all trannies? So trannies love you?

    • Replies: @Truth
  159. @Ragno

    Amen, bro. Back then they could actually SING, they knew what on-key or off-key meant; and they were musical beyond reproach. Listen to Helen Forrest, breathtaking.

    AJM

  160. Truth says:
    @Father O'Hara

    OK, now we’re getting somewhere.

  161. Truth says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    …He skated through two Republican primaries, and two general elections, with your ballot.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  162. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    I lived in Hollywood for 12 years, i can honestly say that every celebrity “female” (i.e. “woman” that I have met that you would recognize in an “A”, “B” or “C” level role) flirted with me. Arguably the world’s most famous “at the time” white actress during that era spent 5 minutes chatting me up in a supermarket and was visibly disappointed when I didn’t ask her out.

    Truth, dear fellow, feel free to come clean and unburden yourself. We’re here for you:

  163. @Reg Cæsar

    I’m sorry, but the Beatles were to rock what Bach was to classical. They were a group with fantastic talent and imagination. Yes, the Stones were damned good but…….

  164. @Truth

    I have never voted for a Bush. Or for a Democrat.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  165. @Buck Ransom

    She was sitting next to Carol Wayne. Nobody was looking at Doris’s breasts.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  166. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Mid-century adoption agencies are now highly out of favor even though they seemed pretty conscientious and reasonable.

    Watch the movie Three Identical Strangers. The (Jewish) Louise Wise Agency split up a set of identical triplets without telling them (or their birth mother or the adoptive parents) in order to do some kind of Nazi-like HBD experiment – one kid went to a “rich” doctor in Scarsdale, one kid went to a middle class family and one kid went to a working class family. After all of that, the experimenters never even wrote up their study – by the time they were done medical ethics had shifted and they must have realized that it would only get them in hot water to publish. But, informally, the kid from the working class home turned out to be the happiest and least screwed up. After the brothers were reunited they went to his house to hang out because his parents were the most welcoming.

    Steve Jobs also ended up with working class adoptive parents instead of his PhD student birth parents. I wonder if he would have turned out the same if he had stayed with his birth parents?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  167. @Father O'Hara

    As I remember it, the Dave Clark Five were second only to the Beatles in their popularity. But, being only slightly older than Steve, I would have gotten such an impression from their innumerable appearances on Ed Sullivan. Teenagers of the day might have seen it differently.

    The importance of the Stones and the Who to the Sixties seems to be exaggerated. In a sense, they’re really Seventies bands, not breaking out of the pack until after the Beatles and the rest of the competition had broken up.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Anonymous
  168. @Liza

    I’m an ASS man myself.

    • Replies: @Liza
  169. @Dtbb

    The roller skating rink in my town was known way back when as the Gay Way Palace. Now it’s a Salvation Army thrift store.

    Selling used inlines, no doubt.

    I wonder how many of these big-box storefronts repurposed as thrift stores are selling items once sold new in the same building.

  170. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Again, dear fellow, just tell us what happened to you that night in the dimly-lit bar…


    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Truth
  171. @Jack D

    Steve Jobs also ended up with working class adoptive parents instead of his PhD student birth parents. I wonder if he would have turned out the same if he had stayed with his birth parents?

    Mona Simpson serves as his control group.

  172. syonredux says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Aside from that, the book gave me my first ideas about life in America and about the secret world of adultery in my parent’s generation. It all seemed very strange and his New England did not sound much like my Olde Englande. The book did not make me want to come here.

    I had the same reaction after watching episodes of Are You Being Served? as a kid; the UK looked like something out of Hieronymus Bosch…..

    • Replies: @Anon
  173. @utu

    Except that the story goes that her name (Kappelhoff) sounded too Jewish.

    Glenn Gould’s father changed the name from “Gold” because he thought the latter might sound too Jewish, which you didn’t want in the Toronto of the day. Ironically, when Glenn made it big, the other famous Goulds, e.g. Elliot and Stephen Jay, were Jewish.

    Ethel Merman shortened her name from Zimmerman for similar reasons. She came across as Jewish anyway, even though her ethnicities matched Donald Trump’s.

    Kapoelhoff, by the way, means “chapel court”. Not very Jewish!

  174. @Steve Sailer

    Sailer says there’s a lot of hope in a red Solo cup.

  175. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows

    Maybe it’s the context, but I would have sworn that was the immortal Carol Wayne (Art Fern’s Tea Time Movie lady)

    • Replies: @Jack D
  176. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    “I had the same reaction after watching episodes of Are You Being Served? as a kid; the UK looked like something out of Hieronymus Bosch…..”

    Should be mandatory for all “alt-righters” who bemoan the “good old days.” Teeth aside, the bootlicking and asskissing that was taken for granted, just to work a lousy clerk’s job, explains the whole “rebellion” thing.

  177. @Brutusale

    God bless Doris Day and her Kraut knockers and Kraut nipples on the Johnny Carson TV show.

    How about Doris Day was just horsing around and decided to use the fake pasty nipple contraptions cooked up by some person somewhere. Doris Day plays deadpan for the TV audience and tries not to crack up while she’s doing it.

    The late Jan Hooks or Tilda Swinton or Tracey Ullman are the only broads who I can think of who could pull that off without busting out laughing.

  178. syonredux says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I voted for Obama in ’08; McCain’s sabre-rattling frightened me.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  179. @syonredux

    So you candidly admit that you are insane.

    AJM

    • Replies: @syonredux
  180. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    The truth is at times, painful, Neo.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  181. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    Actually it happened to Ray Davies…

    • Replies: @syonredux
  182. @Authenticjazzman

    Agree re “If I Fell.” The harmony!

  183. @Father O'Hara

    Correction: It was FDR whom Churchill received naked. Wait. I said that wrong…

  184. peterike says:
    @Luke Lea

    Updike was a pretty good poet too. The most talented wordsmith since Shakespeare perhaps?

    For sure. I mean if you leave out like a few hundred other people.

  185. Liza says:
    @Dr. Mabuse

    So you don’t get all huffy when you see a bit of milk-loaded breast, then. Good for you.

  186. @Reg Cæsar

    The appeal of the Stones seems pretty timeless at this point. Male insouciance never goes out a style.

  187. @Anon

    Justice Kennedy informs me that all your concerns are just a cover for your animus against gays.

  188. Jack D says:
    @utu

    Then the story is wrong. Kappelhoff is a pure German name and never Jewish. Being German (or really any ethnicity) was not super popular in that assimilationist period – many show business figures of the time had their names changed to something “American” and not ethnic sounding. It didn’t matter if you were Jewish, Italian, German, whatever – they were going to give you a “better” stage name. Sometimes even if you were not ethnic at all – Francis Gumm became Judy Garland.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @utu
  189. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    It is. Day appears much later in the same video.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  190. @Steve Sailer

    Truth’s claim calls to mind Leyland Stevenson in ChickenHawk. A boy shooting hoops on a very hot day pulls off his shirt. Leyland reads this as the boy’s being “flirtatious”.

    They’re called “actresses” for a reason.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Truth
  191. @Jack D

    They idea that Carson was less political than today’s three stooges is really belied by watching episodes like this one.

    Those tits are anything but subtle.

  192. syonredux says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    So you candidly admit that you are insane.

    AJM

    Well, if fear of WW3 makes someone insane…..

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  193. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Actually it happened to Ray Davies…

    Indeed, dear fellow…..and we are here for you when the day comes that you feel like talking about your Lola-esque experience….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  194. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Italian and Spanish names could be tolerated: Don Ameche, Cesar Romero , etc. But German names were felt to be déclassé….at least to WASP ears…..

    • Replies: @Jack D
  195. syonredux says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Truth’s claim calls to mind Leyland Stevenson in ChickenHawk. A boy shooting hoops on a very hot day pulls off his shirt. Leyland reads this as the boy’s being “flirtatious”.

    They’re called “actresses” for a reason.

    Truth seems to think that “actress” is a euphemism for transgender……Indeed, I remember him posting claims that Marilyn Monroe (perhaps the most extravagantly female woman who ever lived) was trans…..The poor man has issues….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  196. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    The truth is at times, painful,

    But the truth will set you free, dear fellow. Stop living on the “down low”……You’ll feel better once you acknowledge your desires…..

    • Replies: @Truth
  197. syonredux says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    your voice peircing me like a silver arrow,

    But he couldn’t spell for salt water taffy.

    Don’t know if the error was his. This site, for example, offers the correct spelling

    Doris, ever since 1945,
    when I was all of thirteen and you a mere twenty-one,
    and “Sentimental Journey” came winging
    out of the juke box at the sweet shop,
    your voice piercing me like a silver arrow,
    I knew you were sexy.

    https://betterlivingthroughbeowulf.com/

    And John Updike’s Selected Poems also has the correct spelling:

    your voice piercing me like a silver arrow, I knew you were sexy.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=4cPZCwAAQBAJ&pg=PR22&lpg=PR22&dq=piercing+me+like+a+silver+arrow,&source=bl&ots=K6zqHYFKgg&sig=ACfU3U022JxDfiyj7NmldYgLA5gTBpDQHQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVy_mnipziAhWLIDQIHUMhBTwQ6AEwBXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=piercing%20me%20like%20a%20silver%20arrow%2C&f=false

  198. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The wood cab and all knobs give good isolation as designed, I checked that. I always use an isoformer or a bench isolated DC supply for test on these.

    It has a very good speaker and plays nicely. I’m glad i saved it from a bad death. The cab looks like it was puked on but the grill cloth cleaned up nicely. I intend to strip the cab, give it a little Fiebings oxblood dye and a Tru-Oil finish some day.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Jack D
  199. ziel says:
    @Truth

    I really can’t fathom what he’s talking about – can anyone translate?

    • Replies: @bomag
  200. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I think it’s just a typo and not Updike’s typo but introduced later by someone else. “If piercing me like a silver arrow” is meant to be a play on words at all, it’s probably a reference to the Pierce (Silver) Arrow automobile (spelled ie, not ei).

  201. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Marilyn Monroe (perhaps the most extravagantly female woman who ever lived)

    Arthur Asher Miller was an oafish doofus but truer words were never spoken:

    “She’s (Marilyn Monroe) all woman, the most womanly woman in the world.”

    At least, on film (did anyone reading this ever meet her? I was in diapers when she died) she comes across that way. I’ve met half a dozen women who have been compared to her, a couple more than very casually, -and no, they don’t. Not that they don’t have things Monroe didn’t-she was not a great singer and could do some physical comedy well but had limitations too-it’s a damn shame we didn’t get to see her in later life. I still think she would have killed it in Star Trek (TOS) either on the cast or as a guest star. She only died four years too early.

  202. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    But Anthony Benedetto had to become Tony Bennett and Ramón Estévez became Martin Sheen so it varied. But Johnny Weissmuller got to keep his name (probably because he was already a famous athlete before becoming a film star – same as Schwarzenegger). There were no hard and fast rules.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  203. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    But Anthony Benedetto had to become Tony Bennett and Ramón Estévez became Martin Sheen so it varied.

    “Had to”, no, but was advantageous sure. Sinatra didn’t change his name. Lots of Italian and Jewish names in show biz by the end of the war. “Gumm” was perfectly English but Frances became Judy Garland and Marion Morrison liked John Wayne better too. And Norma Jeane Baker/Mortensen/Dougherty went with Marilyn Monroe only after a few other false starts-model release on her nudie calendar is signed “Mona Monroe”.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  204. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Sir Ray sired four girls by three women, one a bigger star than he was. He’s pretty straight.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    , @Truth
  205. donut says:
    @Truth

    I would think you might be a bit peeved that she’s using two adopted African children as fashion accessories . What she’s doing with the little boy is child abuse .

  206. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    But Anthony Benedetto had to become Tony Bennett and Ramón Estévez became Martin Sheen so it varied.

    Sure. You could also toss in Dean Martin (born Dino Paul Crocetti )……but then you could counter-balance that with Frank Sinatra.And then there’s the case of Ricardo Cortez (born Jacob Kranze), a Jewish actor who latinized his image. Overall, I think that I’m on solid ground in suggesting that Italian and Spanish surnames had a leg up in Hollywood on their German counterparts.

    But Johnny Weissmuller got to keep his name (probably because he was already a famous athlete before becoming a film star – same as Schwarzenegger). There were no hard and fast rules.

    As you say, Weissmuller became a star because of his fame as an Olympic swimmer (winner of five gold medals); hence, changing his surname would have been counterproductive.

  207. @donut

    The part in “Bruno” where the Sacha Baron Cohen’s gay Nazi fashionista adopts a black baby as a literal fashion accessory is hilariously sick.

  208. @Anonymous

    Sir Ray sired four girls by three women, one a bigger star than he was.

    Who is that?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  209. @Anonymous

    The version with Marilyn Monroe and Dean Martin had the title “Something’s Got to Give.” The most famous footage from this one is Marilyn swimming nude in an outdoor pool at midnight to titilate Martin who is watching from an upstairs window. Still shots from this made a sensation in the press. Marilyn is reported to have said “This will knock Liz off all those magazine covers.” Liz and Dick were shooting “Cleopatra” at that time.

    After Marilyn’s death, the studio started all over again, recasting with Doris Day and James Garner. The title was changed to “Move Over, Darling” and there was no nude swimming at midnight this time around.

    Both versions were a remake of “My Favorite Wife,” the 1930s hit with Cary Grant and Irene Dunne.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Anonymous
  210. Truth says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    I wasn’t paying them for a role.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  211. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    “Me” coming out of the closet seems an ongoing theme in your posts, and has been for a while. Are you sure you aren’t the one with something to reveal? Because I have nothing.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  212. Truth says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s the “pretty” part one has to worry about.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  213. Truth says:
    @donut

    I would think you might be a bit peeved that she’s using two adopted African children as fashion accessories .

    First of all, this person is not a “she.” Secondly, this is just a silly, simpleton being used to herald in the transpocalypse, which, by the way, is scheduled to be firmly in place, everywhere, in the world by 2030.

    As I wrote above, silly, mouth-breathing matters of race do not concern me.

    https://eurweb.com/2019/04/19/charlize-theron-now-raising-daughter-she-adopted-as-a-boy-transgender/

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/charlize-theron-is-raising-her-son-as-a-girl.-why-that-hurts-all-of-our-kids

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @donut
  214. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    You haven’t been paying attention.

    Mère et Fille

    Chrissie Hynde and her daughter by Ray Davies, Natalie Ray Hynde.

    Yes, the Pretenders were bigger than the Kinks , and Chrissie as the sole frontperson and public face of the band was more famous than Ray, who shared notoriety with his brother Dave Davies. Kinks were always a band that was respected and had good songs but distinctly behind the Beatles, Rolling Stones and The Who.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  215. @Buck Ransom

    Is “Move Over, Darling” the movie where somebody drives into a swimming pool filled with something, maybe whipped cream or laundry detergent suds? I have a vague memory of seeing a Doris Day movie in a drive-in as a small child and the swimming pool crash is the one thing I liked.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  216. @donut

    Four to go until she drives them off the cliff.

  217. @Anonymous

    Italian surnames are pretty easy for Americans to spell and pronounce and come with high culture connotations like Leonardo da Vinci and Dante.

  218. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Doris Day drove a convertible through a car wash.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  219. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Me” coming out of the closet seems an ongoing theme in your posts, and has been for a while. Are you sure you aren’t the one with something to reveal? Because I have nothing.

    Given your background, the “down low” seems more appropriate…..And I’m sure that you have something to tell us…..

    • Replies: @Truth
  220. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    It’s the “pretty” part one has to worry about.

    Oh, dear…too close to home, eh?

  221. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buck Ransom

    You are absolutely correct. MM’s last day of filming was June 1, 1962 her 36th birthday. She was never filmed alive again.

    After Marilyn’s death, the studio started all over again, recasting with Doris Day and James Garner. The title was changed to “Move Over, Darling” and there was no nude swimming at midnight this time around.

    It was an almost total rewrite and recast, they used the set which was a replica of George Cukor’s house. Day commented that the bathrobe she wore (no nude scene) still had the smell of Monroe’s perfume.

    AMC did a special where they made a 35 minute movie of the footage that survives, in 1999 or thereabouts. It would probably have been a better movie than the Day/Garner version but who knows? Monroe is in physically excellent shape as you can see.

    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
    , @Buck Ransom
  222. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    I wasn’t paying them for a role.

    Paying trans prostitutes is a bad idea, dear fellow. We don’t want you getting sick on us….

  223. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    As I remember it, the Dave Clark Five were second only to the Beatles in their popularity.

    For maybe six months or so.

  224. @Anonymous

    Yes, the Pretenders were bigger than the Kinks…

    No. The Pretenders were a much admired band, but they were more a success d’estime than a commercial powerhouse. They might have been huge if the first guitarist hadn’t died. The biggest band to come out of the New Wave Era of the late 1970s was probably the Police, or if you extend it through 1983, U2 and REM.

    In general, bands that came up in the late 1970s didn’t have long, strong runs, probably due to it being harder to stand out than in the late 1960s, and probably due to cocaine being a bad, bad drug for health and happiness.

    Kinks were always a band that was respected and had good songs but distinctly behind the Beatles, Rolling Stones and The Who.

    That’s like being the 4th most famous Italian Renaissance artist in the Ninja Turtles (Donatello?). Seriously, the British Invasion was just about the biggest thing in the history of electric guitar music. The Kinks had legitimate hits that still get played from 1964 (You Really Got Me) to maybe 1983 (Come Dancing). I saw them a couple of times in the 1980s and they were terrific.

    Being a legitimate top 4 British Invasion band like the Kinks was like being a fine Florentine artist in the 1400s: you had the wind at your back culturally and not much competition from before you.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  225. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    Again my friend, it seems you are obsessed with black transexuals, but not white ones. I try not to judge, have fun with that.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  226. @Anonymous

    Thanks. James Garner drives his car into a swimming pool in the 1963 Doris Day movie The Thrill of It All:

    I was 4 when that came out, so no wonder I kept falling asleep during it.

  227. bomag says:
    @ziel

    Appears to be a guest poster for our usual off-beat contributor.

    My translation: a brag about his sexual prowess, though it’s not important to him. Hints at dark social forces directed by an unnamed acting in the background.

  228. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    James Honeyman Scott was an exceptional guitar player who ODd at 25, and was destined for great things in everyone’s estimation had he not died, but commercially the band made more money after he and bassist Pete Farndon were replaced. (Farndon was fired and died sometime after that.)

    By 1982 when Hynde brought forth their child (she subsequently had another girl with Jim Kerr of Simple Minds) she was more famous than Davies except to hardcore classic rock fans, and still might be now. Fame is hard to judge because it varies by locale and time drastically. Everyone in the US knows who Madonna is but you’d be surprised how many have never heard of Deborah Harry, even girls who say they are Madonna superfans: it seems like being a Rolling Stones ‘superfan’ who never heard of Muddy Waters or Chuck Berry. But in England anyone familiar with one is familiar with the other. Most would acknowledge Madonna as bigger, but the difference wouldn’t be seen as that much.

    But I’m going to insist that Chrissie is at least as famous as Ray Davies to the average person on the street, US or British.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Desiderius
  229. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Again my friend, it seems you are obsessed with black transexuals, but not white ones. I try not to judge, have fun with that.

    See, dear fellow, you’re making progress! We will not judge you when you unburden yourself…..

  230. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    First of all, this person is not a “she.” Secondly, this is just a silly, simpleton being used to herald in the transpocalypse, which, by the way, is scheduled to be firmly in place, everywhere, in the world by 2030.

    No need for you to wait that long, dear fellow. You can unveil yourself whenever you feel ready….

  231. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    From Madge’s speech at Women in Music, 2016:

    ‘As you can imagine, all these unexpected events not only helped me become the daring woman that stands before you. But it also reminded me that I am vulnerable. And in life, there is no real safety except for self-belief. And, an understanding that I am not the owner of my talents.

    “I was of course inspired by Debbie Harry and Chrissie Hynde and Aretha Franklin, but my real muse was David Bowie. He embodied male and female spirit and that suited me just fine. He made me think there were no rules. But I was wrong.

    “There are no rules — if you’re a boy. If you’re a girl, you have to play the game. What is that game? You are allowed to be pretty and cute and sexy. But don’t act too smart. Don’t have an opinion. Don’t have an opinion that is out of line with the status quo, at least. You are allowed to be objectified by men and dress like a slut, but don’t own your sluttiness. And do not, I repeat, do not, share your own sexual fantasies with the world.

    “Be what men want you to be. But more importantly, be what women feel comfortable with you being around other men. And finally, do not age. Because to age is a sin. You will be criticized, you will be vilified, and you will definitely not be played on the radio.”

    “When I first became famous, there were nude photos of me in Penthouse and Playboy magazine. Photos that were taken from art schools that I posed for back in the day to make money. They weren’t very sexy.”

  232. utu says:
    @Jack D

    “the story goes” well for most Jewish Jacks A.., B., or C. because it brings up the anti-semitism. Most Jews will go with this story. But Jack D. objected because as a son of Ostjude fishmonger he is an expert in Jewish names in America. It is true that Germans were changing names after WWI and later but name changing was Jewish specialty and not only in the show business. German paranoia and need for mimicry was never on the level of Jewish paranoia and practice of name changing.

    Kappelhoff changed her name to Day on suggestions of her Jewish agent Barney Rapp (Rappaport) in 1939. “Kappelhoff” was too long for marquees. One syllable names worked for Jews pretty well in show business: Kaye=Kaminski, May=Elaine Iva Berlin so Rappaport was not very original (*). Did Jewish paranoia played a role in Rappaport’s suggestion?

    As to whether Kappelhoff could have been also a Jewish name, you never know. Doris Day was from Cincinnati which was the most German city but also with a healthy and strong Jewish community of German Jews of which Ostjuden like yourself may not. know much. They formed the strongest center of Reformed Judaism in the US which Ostjuden were rather hostile to partly because the Reformed Jews were not as hostile to gentiles as the Ostjuden. The prominent (politicians) Jews from Cincinnati were Harry M. Hoffheimer, Julius Fleischmann, Bernhard Bettmann. Jewish names or German names?

    (*) As far as originality and mimicry here is en excerpt from Samual Roth conversation with Israel
    Zangwill:

    Zangwill–Why this sudden self-conscious modesty? The Jews have certainly contributed their ample share towards the upbuilding of America.

    Roth--Industrially, yes. I am thinking this moment how little we have done in America for the arts–particularly for the art of poetry in which I can judge with more assurance.

    Zangwill–That is strange, for in every European country Jews are foremost among the leaders in all the arts.

    Roth–It is not strange at all. Jewish literary talent in America has been exhausted in the effort to disguise the name Cohen of which you may find in the New York Telephone Directory no less than twenty-four variations: Cohen, Cohn, Cone, Cunn, Curie, Coan, Coon, Cohene, Cane, Kohn, Kohne, Kohen, Kohene, Kuhn, Kuhne, Kun, Kunn, Koen, Konn, Coone, Cahn, Kone, Kann, and Kahn.

    Zangwill–Is there any unpleasantness in the life of our people that you have overlooked?

    Roth–There are many unpleasantnesses, I promise you, I shall not mention.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  233. @Steve Sailer

    If you notice, in my list of Doris Day films worth watching, I put Thrill of It All second. In my view, it’s far superior to Pillow Talk, the best of her Rock Hudson pairings. Move Over Darling is just a remake of My Favorite Wife.

    But Thrill of It All is a very funny satire of TV advertising, as well as interesting commentary on working women (with the usual end copout), and a better than average 60s comedy. Norman Jewison directed, a step above her usual directors. Carl Reiner wrote it (and plays a recurring part). Garner was, for my money, fifty times the talent of Hudson, in both comedy and drama.

    I can find no decent clips on youtube, and I can’t say the story is anything but predictable. However, the delivery is excellent.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Desiderius
  234. @Anonymous

    @Truth

    It is interesting to see how this thread — which started as a tribute on the passing of a lady who was America’s sweetheart in the ’50s and ’60s — transitioned (as it were) into musings on the looming Transcopalypse. I doubt that anyone in the audience watching “Move Over, Darling” in 1963 has the remotest idea of the civilizational wasteland being prepared for their grandkids.

  235. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Sounds like you know what you are doing but anyone who finds one of these things in the trash or the attic and is not familiar with them should proceed with caution.

  236. Jack D says:
    @utu

    As to whether Kappelhoff could have been also a Jewish name, you never know.

    YOU never know. I know that Kappelhoff means something like Church Yard . This is a pretty damn unlikely name for a Jew.

    • Replies: @utu
  237. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    The wood cab and all knobs give good isolation as designed

    Some designs had exposed screws holding the case to the chassis (or vice versa) which could be live. But if this is an AM/FM set it is a later design and by then they had fixed the most obvious danger points.

  238. @Anonymous

    Thanks for posting this scene, I had never gotten a look at it before that I recall. Yes, she was definitely ready for her closeup on that nude scene, and I have seen additional footage when she enters the water, swims around and calls up to Dino in the bedroom window. Very effective.

    But to my ear at least, she is floundering with her lines. Everything seems off by a beat or two, and she has the wrong shading in her voice. If she watched the dailies, she probably saw this and was terrified. If she didn’t watch them, she was probably hearing feedback from the studio. No wonder she was a nervous wreck and calling in sick day after day. She was also facing huge pressure because the studio was way over budget on “Cleopatra” and now she was delaying a picture that was supposed to bail them out. And she was having trouble with the Kennedy brothers. And she just turned 36.

    It’s kind of sinister that when Paramount brought in Doris Day for the recast version, they couldn’t even bother to get the deceased star’s bathrobe dry-cleaned.

  239. utu says:
    @Jack D

    Jews sometimes had very dumb names. To get a good name you had to bribe the official who was in charge of giving names to Jews in Austria or Prussia. And when you had no money or the official was ill disposed to you because of your stupid looks you could get a pretty stupid name.

    In Western Galicia, that part of Poland which was under Austrian rule
    from 1795 to 1815 (when it became part of the new Kingdom of Poland under
    Russian sovereignty), family names became obligatory in 1805. The wording
    of the regulations differed from those for Austria proper: In Austria, Jews
    had to “take” a family name, in Western Galicia they “received” one. It is
    possible (but by no means certain) that some officials in this region (but
    not anywhere else) imposed unpleasant names unless they received a bribe
    (cf. Dietz Bering, Der Name als Stigma 1987, Ch. 2.2, note 45).

    The ultimate source of all the stories that Jews had to “buy” names is
    an essay by the writer Karl Emil Franzos, “Namensstudien” (1880), in which
    he lists ugly and derogatory family names from Galicia. His claim that
    these names were assigned by a military commission has been refuted by
    Erwin Manuel Dreifuss in his book Die Familiennamen der Juden (1927,
    p. 16ff); other authors (e.g. Gerhard Kessler in Die Familiennamen der
    Juden in Deutschland 1935, p. 80) have pointed out that seemingly ugly
    names also occur among Gentiles and often aren’t derogatory in origin –
    and some of the “disgusting” Galician names (“Ekelnamen”) which Kessler
    found in the Berlin address book of 1926 don’t strike me as “disgusting”
    at all. In fact, one of the names he assigns to this category, SONNENBLICK
    (lit. ‘sun view’), occurs again under the “phantasy names” with positive
    connotations, and I also don’t understand why MUSKATBLITT (lit. ‘nutmeg
    flower’, i.e. the spice mace) should be “disgusting” if MUSKAT is listed
    under the names derived from merchandise. Obviously, the number of “ugly”
    names among Jews has been vastly exaggerated – they occur more frequently
    in jokes and antisemitic remarks than in reality.

    Then it is possible that this is just another made up story by Jews about their imaginary persecution and indignities they has to suffer.

    As far as Doris Day the issue was not whether her name was Jewish or not but whether there was a potential for perception of it being Jewish. Your thinking is typical for Ostjude, i.e., provincial.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    , @Yngvar
    , @Liza
  240. @syonredux

    ” Well if fear of WW3 makes someone insane”

    So are you suggesting that a Democrat in the WH would prevent the occurance of wars.

    If so you are just as insane as the other guy.

    AJM

    • Replies: @syonredux
  241. @education realist

    Garner was, for my money, fifty times the talent of Hudson, in both comedy and drama.

    Somehow Garner’s character in Murphy’s Romance became more or less my platonic ideal as a young man. I may have done better with Maverick or Rockford, but Murphy ages well.

  242. @Anonymous

    The Van Halen cover of You Really Got Me probably edges the Kinks over the top.

  243. @Steve Sailer

    I saw The Sting at four and though I must have missed 99% of the plot I was still riveted.

    Great Picture.

  244. donut says:
    @Truth

    “As I wrote above, silly, mouth-breathing matters of race do not concern me.”

    Bullshit ! They concern you very much . But that’s OK Negro I’m one of your fans for reasons you can’t fathom .

  245. @utu

    Erwin Manuel Dreifuss

    Might have had a bone to pick if his surname means “three feet”!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  246. syonredux says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    ” Well if fear of WW3 makes someone insane”

    So are you suggesting that a Democrat in the WH would prevent the occurance of wars.

    If so you are just as insane as the other guy.

    AJM

    WW3 didn’t occur while Obama was president. McCain would have gleefully given us World War III, preferably in the name of Israel.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  247. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Although Dreifuss may be a nickname for someone with a crutch (just like “four eyes” is someone with glasses) or a 3 legged stool, it is mostly a name for Jews who originated from Trier (Treves). You can imagine that Treves could be misheard as Dreifuss. Karl Marx was from Trier.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  248. Yngvar says:
    @utu

    Then it is possible that this is just another made up story by Jews about their imaginary persecution and indignities they has to suffer.

    Come on, please.

  249. @syonredux

    ” WW3 didn’t occur while O was president”

    The US was involved in military actions every day of his presidency.

    ” Mc Cain would have gleefully given us WW 3″

    He was a RINO.

    Look you stupid ignorant leftists have no understanding of reality, and your BS simply exausts me, therfore : Case closed.

    AJM

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  250. Liza says:
    @utu

    Jews sometimes had very dumb names.

    A Jewish acquaintance was telling me about some relatives of his and said their last name was Balamut. He got mad at me when I laughed out loud and told him what it means in some of the Slavic languages.

  251. @Jack D

    Are Jewish surnames commonly associated with place names, like English surnames and other European surnames? For example the Spanish name Guzman is associated with a village in Spain, and of course you have Washington, and pretty much any name ending in -ton, -mouth, -caster, or -ville.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  252. Art Deco says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Pretty silly to call the Republican presidential nominee a ‘RINO’. About 44% of Republican primary and caucus voters cast a ballot for him in 2008. That aside, the American Conservative Union gave him satisfactory marks for 30-odd years (they report he voted with them 81% of the time during his years in Congress). He was an episodic irritant (see Obamacare) who made remarks indicating he despised a large swath of the Republican electorate. His voting record in Congress was unremarkable for a Republican.

  253. Art Deco says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Not in obvious ways. I think Henry Kissinger’s biographer discovered that that surname is some sort of locative, but you wouldn’t know it just looking at it.

  254. Lloyd1927 says:
    @Flip

    The U.S. government deliberately destroyed German American ethnic solidarity during World War I. Even though German is supposedly the largest European ancestral group in the nation, no politician courts or fears the “German American vote” because it doesn’t exist.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/04/07/523044253/during-world-war-i-u-s-government-propaganda-erased-german-culture

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