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From NBER:

Schools, Neighborhoods, and the Long-Run Effect of Crime-Prone Peers
Stephen B. Billings, Mark Hoekstra
NBER Working Paper No. 25730
Issued in April 2019

This paper examines how elementary-aged peers affect cognitive and non-cognitive outcomes from adolescence to adulthood. We identify effects by exploiting within-school and within-neighborhood variation in the proportion of peers with an arrested parent. Results indicate exposure to these peers reduces achievement and increases antisocial behavior during middle and high school. More importantly, we estimate that a five percentage point increase in school and neighborhood crime-prone peers increases arrest rates at age 19 – 21 by 6.5 and 2.6 percent, respectively. Additional evidence suggests these effects are due to attending school with crime-prone peers, rather than living in the same neighborhood.

I can recall an English study from about a decade ago that found a less pessimistic result: it studied the children of British leftist intellectuals who sent their kids to working class government schools out of ideological conviction. It found that the children of intellectuals who stuck it out through school did fine at getting into Oxford and Cambridge. However, most of the survivors were girls and the study didn’t know what happened to all the boys whose parents withdrew them from the experiment. Also, the upper middle class intellectual students who survived did not come around to their parents’ pro-working class ideology, but instead only hung out with other children of intellectuals and despised their working class yob classmates.

But I have lost track of the URL of this study.

 
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  1. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:

    Is this a LOTB guest post lol

    • Replies: @McFly
    , @njguy73
  2. bomag says:

    Studies showed that Blacks sent to school with Whites did significantly better, thus busing, integration measures, etc.

    But liberal Whites found ways to “avoid the ‘groid”, thus leaving conservative Whites in harness to the ideology, who promptly adapted down to Black norms.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  3. TWS says:

    It’s sad. Parents sacrifice their kids for ideology

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  4. Oh doncha just hate it when your progressive social experiment always goes horribly awry?!

  5. peterike says:

    Researchers at the National Bureau of Economic Researchers spend time and money to arrive at the bloody obvious.

  6. Clyde says:

    A yob is a hooligan and should not be included up above. UK Daily Mail is my main news source, whenever I see “yob” being used there it is in “drunken yob”. A proper yob is intoxicated and ready to rumble.

    • Replies: @guest
  7. So public schools are out. Got it.

  8. dearieme says:

    There’s always the Toni Blair solution – send your children to an unusually good state school, where their privilege guarantees them entrance, and then hire tutors from a very good private school to visit in the evening.

    Mind you, few would call Toni Blair leftist and none an intellectual.

  9. Willie Nelson needs to rewrite the lyrics of “Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be cowboys”.

  10. Escher says:

    More and more “scholarly” works proving the blindingly obvious.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  11. In this, episode #25730 of Sociologists Manage to Demonstrate What Normal People Knew All Along

    Seriously, is the entire intellectual effort of modernity the painstaking recapitulation of what was already obvious to any medieval peasant?

    I think so.

    But really, thank you to Mssrs. Billings and Hoekstra. Without your efforts, our autistic age would have no wisdom at all.

    • LOL: bomag
  12. Aren’t people who vote to steal other people’s money in order to fund publik skewls also criminals?

  13. Anon[295] • Disclaimer says:

    This was Judith Rich Harris’s theory: parental influence zero, genetics 50 percent, non-shared environment (which meant high school peer group to her) 50 percent.

    Plomin in his book last year however explained that his “nature of nurture” findings, which he first published way back in the early 1990s, based on twin and adoption studies, before Harris’s first book, mean that kids whose genes want them to be delinquents will, come hell or high water, find delinquent peers one way or another, while goodie-two-shoe kids will not be adversely affected by delinquent peers even if they cannot escape them. Parents cannot change things that much by school choice.

  14. Art Deco says:

    Going to school with the children of wage-earners is not an ordeal you ‘survive’ except to the extent that the social dynamic of school-in-general and high school in particular can be an ordeal w/0 regard to who your schoolmates are because there’s a pecking order and some youngsters land at the bottom of it. NB, in small towns and rural areas, the children of the local doctors and the children of janitors attend the same schools.

    A different question is thus: why use public agency as a delivery vehicle for schooling? Transportation costs have declined to such an extent in the postwar period that very few people live in areas so depopulated that they unable to support multiple schools within commuting distance. Schools operated by private philanthropies but financed by vouchers issued by county governments would address distributional questions while allowing in a given area a variety of options for different segments of the market.

  15. Art Deco says:

    NB, ordinary youths have to attend schools with proto-criminals because the people who run the schools don’t sequester the proto-criminals. The proto-criminals do not belong in ordinary schools with ordinary youths. They belong in detention centers run by the local sheriff.

    • Agree: Sextus Empiricus, Alden
    • Replies: @Calvin X Hobbes
  16. Dr. X says:

    OT:

    Ta-Nehisi Coates, Danny Glover to testify before House Committee on Slave Reparations

    …because, obviously, the legacy of slavery kept them from becoming rich and famous.

    https://apnews.com/461a171095b54709b12e0e6bd0f80b95

    • LOL: TWS
    • Replies: @indocon
    , @Sextus Empiricus
  17. McFly says:
    @Anon

    LOTB – Greatest blog in the history of blogs.

  18. indocon says:

    Good this issue in the Straits of Hormuz be really the next Gulf of Tonkin moment? The deep state sure does not know how to show some subtlety.

  19. You’re talking about the colored, right?

  20. OT:


    Matt Smiley holding his 48-inch lake trout

    In more important news, a man named Smiley from a town called Fairplay has caught a record-setting trout in Utah.

    It’s a new catch-and-release record. Being such, Mr. Smiley had to let the fish go, as if it were claiming asylum. [OT topic hereby made relevant to recurring blog topic]

    • Replies: @M_Young
    , @Olorin
  21. What about having your country’s foreign policy run by a child of the “arrested”?

  22. Whatever the study was, Whiggerism was probably wasn’t the factor it is in America in the current year.

  23. Jmaie says:

    And yet people still maintain that intelligence isn’t heritable, doesn’t measure anything useful, can’t even be measured, etc. etc.

  24. What?! It doesn’t make the bad kids better when you force the good kids to dwell among them?? I’m shocked!

  25. @Art Deco

    NB, ordinary youths have to attend schools with proto-criminals because the people who run the schools don’t sequester the proto-criminals. The proto-criminals do not belong in ordinary schools with ordinary youths. They belong in detention centers run by the local sheriff.

    It sounds like you’re advocating that the “proto-criminal” children of convicted criminals be put into detention centers whether or not they’ve committed crimes yet. There may be countries where that could be done, but I don’t think the USA is one of them.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  26. njguy73 says:

    “Don’t send your kids to school with the children of criminals.”

    The 2016 presidential election had two major-party candidates who both let their daughters marry sons of criminals.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mezvinsky#Criminal_activities

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kushner#Criminal_conviction

    • Replies: @Anon
  27. White kid upon arriving at the school in the “underserved communitay” his liberal parents forced him into to broaden his cultural and educational vistas:

    “Oh, some of these kids are a bit scary and aggressive and are glaring at me for some reason. But I guess I’ll just judge each person by their own actions and merit – it wouldn’t be right to be prejudiced.”

    Vibrant school member upon seeing new arrivals:

    “Ah-eet, mo suckaz tuh rob – an deez might eben hav sum munny an sh**.”

    • LOL: jim jones, Clyde
  28. Reading on the Central Park Five/Jogger case.

    From the 2002 vacating of the Five rape etc convictions http://wps.prenhall.com/wps/media/objects/13023/13335893/downloadables/NYDA%20motion%20in%20Jogger%20case.pdf

    It seems fairly clear that, contra our heroes Derbyshire and Coulter, the Five did not rape the jogger. But from fragmentary sources that I haven’t finished reading through, it seems just as clear that the Five were in the park committing OTHER crimes in a pack of 30, which is why they were in the cops’ dragnet.

    The Five were questioned for a long time, without benefit of counsel or much benefit of guardians present. Knowing what Sailer’s readership knows about IQ, I’d like to propose that low IQ (dumbness quotient) correlates with being vulnerable to false confession. African American average IQ is 85, and these were “ghetto youth” out running around committing crimes at 9 pm or so, so we can guess they weren’t the brighter students in their classes–very likely around the 70 IQ range.

    It’s nearly impossible to duplicate the mental state of a person of significantly different intelligence, but I’d expect that a 70 IQ person has a fairly confused mental landscape, limited connection of present statements to past truths, and is more liable than the average bear to be argued into or argue themselves at least partially into a false belief.

    Before DNA evidence, just how much of the criminal justice system was a total crapshoot? (Although on a stochastic level, being in the wrong place at the wrong time meant there was a pretty good chance that, even if you were innocent of THIS crime, you were guilty of OTHER crimes, so it balances out in the long run.)

  29. BB753 says:

    “Don’t Send Your Kids to School with the Children of Criminals”

    Steve, you’re being too judgemental! Thought crime!
    Seriously, smart kids can thrive in almost any school environment, as long as they don’t suffer daily physical violence. Of course, wayward and dumb kinds don’t benefit from any environment at all, be it positive or negative.

  30. @Art Deco

    … in small towns and rural areas, the children of the local doctors and the children of janitors attend the same schools.

    Quite so. The problems arise more in urban areas where the designated catchment area for the schools include large public housing complexes for low income people with social pathologies and parents and other family members who are criminals.

    In the small town I in Florida where I live, all the children from the county come to schools in the town, and there is one school for PreK and Kindergarten, another for Elementary grades 1,2,3, then another junior middle school for grades 4 and 5, a middle school for grades 6, 7, and 8, and then a high school for the rest of the grades.

    This way all the children go to schools that only have children close to their own age, and they go to school with all the same children from Pre-K to graduation.

    The children who are the criminals of the future are identified pretty early on, and measures taken to reduce their malign influence. Fortunately they are not too numerous. The county school population is approximately 85% White, with most of the remaining children being African American, with small numbers of Asians, Haitians, and other exotics, which seems fairly manageable.

    Most of the teachers are married white ladies with children. They post on their resumes the number of children they have raised and the number of years married.

    All the children get free breakfast and lunch at school and can also have it during school vacations if they wish.

    http://www.fldoe.org/about-us/commissioner-corcoran/

  31. The School-to-Prison Pipeline
    Policies and practices that favor incarceration over education do us all a grave injustice.

    https://www.tolerance.org/magazine/spring-2013/the-school-to-prison-pipeline

    This article argues that the “School-to-Prison Pipeline” is a very bad thing.
    If this “School-to-Prison Pipeline” prevents criminal students from sabotaging the education and even the lives of other students, that’s something pretty good.

    Of course the Obama administration and their political allies were promoting that sabotage, both by fighting against the removal of bad kids from schools and by pushing bad kids into good school districts.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  32. “a five percentage point increase in school and neighborhood crime-prone peers increases arrest rates at age 19 – 21 by 6.5 and 2.6 percent, respectively”

    What does this sentence mean? Let’s assume that the bland “increases” does not mean “causes an increase” but merely denotes a statistical association between two outcomes. But what are the two input-output outcomes associated with the word “respectively”? That increasing crime-prone schoolmates by 5% increases the class’s arrest rate by 6.5% among the students who are calendar age 19, and by 2.6% among the students of calendar age 21? Were no statistics collected when the students were calendar age 20?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Bill Jones
  33. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Discordiax

    I’d expect that a 70 IQ person has a fairly confused mental landscape

    Do other species have “very confused mental landscapes”? No, they do not. Why would you suppose that someone of a different IQ would have one then?

  34. @Discordiax

    …was a pretty good chance that, even if you were innocent of THIS crime, you were guilty of OTHER crimes, so it balances out in the long run

    This is so true.

    When I worked in a prison, although I did have access to publicly available information about the inmates’ convictions, this was pretty meaningless as most cases were plea bargained and gave little idea of what they had really done.

    However in almost all cases it was a given that this was not their first rodeo, and that the offenses were more in the nature of samples. If they were actually innocent of what they were convicted of, they were almost certainly guilty of something else.

    In spite of this some were pleasant and charming and others were sullen and stupid, but I always enjoyed being called “sir” by tattooed gangsters and hoodlums.

  35. Anon7 says:

    My wife’s parents were intellectual NYC college profs/lecturers who lived in public housing right next to Harlem, and they too sent her to a Harlem high school, because it was the fashionably liberal thing to do.

    However, this plan came to an abrupt halt about three days into high school, when she was nearly raped by a half-dozen members of the student body. The principal called her parents in for a conference, in which he said (and I’m quoting my wife here) “you need to get this little white girl out of here before she gets killed.”

    And so they did! and she went to a nice private school somewhere.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  36. Bugg says:
    @Discordiax

    Nonsense on stilts. Their incriminating statements were perfectly legal, and only so admitted after a 7-day pretrial hearing determining as much, in which their attorneys crossexamined the cops extensively. Instead we will now have Burns and his daughter having produced their nonsense documentary followed by this Netflix fairytale trying to shape The Narrative. The cop who stopped them happened to be a black guy, Eric Reynolds, who was not even aware of the jogger when he stopped them. He specifically was not sued by the 5 in order to keep the evil whitey the cop narrative intact. And he is in fact outraged over this revisionist nonsense.

    Would you now propose some immunity for young stupid men of color? Never underestimate the stupidity, often criminal, of teenage boys acting in large groups.

    Not every crime has a DNA degree of proof. It’s not some brand new statutory elementary requirement. And as to rape, if you beat a woman senseless or hold her down or fondle her as the 5 did, you are as guilty as the rapist. And there was physical proof; the women’s injuries were consistent with mutiple assailants, some the 5 had dirt form the scene on them, others had semen in their underwear, and one had his face scratched by the vicitim. DNA was not quite the science it is these days. By your logic the getaway driver in the bank robbery is not guilty either.

    As someone who was “in the business” of criminal justice at that time, NYPD did not have to go looking for work during this timeframe. In the midst of the crack epidemic, there were as many as 2200+ murders in NYC at that time each year. In contrast for 2018 there were only 289 murders.

    • Replies: @Discordiax
    , @Alex-CA
  37. JackOH says:
    @Almost Missouri

    AM, agree 100%.

    I recall a prof telling me that gun rights people actually agreed with state “liberals” (the standard Democrat Party type) about the threat posed to civil liberties by some post-9/11 legislation. He conveyed this to me with the air of someone who’d found insight not available to lesser mortals. Jeez! LOL.

  38. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    OT

    Anyone else finding the latest Neil Stephenson book to be woke and offensive? Maybe Seattle does that to you?

  39. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    “a five percentage point increase in school and neighborhood crime-prone peers increases arrest rates at age 19 – 21 by 6.5 and 2.6 percent, respectively”

    What does this sentence mean?

    More importantly, does the increase in rates simply reflect the additional crime brought by the “crime-prone” peers?

  40. bomag says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    …with small numbers of Asians, Haitians, and other exotics, which seems fairly manageable

    That’s the thing; manageable when the numbers are small, but the arc is not to stay that way.

  41. @Almost Missouri

    Lie down with dogs, ….

    • Replies: @NYMOM
  42. Lot says:
    @Discordiax

    “It’s nearly impossible to duplicate the mental state of a person of significantly different intelligence”

    Duplicate is a strong word, but I have a general idea:

  43. @Anonymous

    Because modernity, which is extremely complex, is from an ev-psych standpoint, a very, very, very, VERY recent development. Most of the horrific wars of the 20th-century were, at bottom, caused by failed attempts of humanity to catch up with modernity. Technology moves much, much, MUCH faster than human institutions do. This has been so since the dawn of mankind. But modernity makes it a million times worse.

    Say what you like about IQ or low IQ or whatever, the simple fact is that Modernity is a strictly White invention, and it’s a very recent one. (The T’ang and Sung Chinese came very close to creating something like Modernity, but various Turks and Central Asians and civil wars nipped the whole thing in the bud.). Even most Whites have had a hard time catching up with modernity. It is no surprise whatsoever that most Africans cannot handle it — not mentally, not culturally, not institutionally, not even physically. It is an absolutely alien thing for them, and I don’t blame them for being totally flabbergasted by it.

    Sane public policy would begin with the simple frank admission that, all things being equal, there is nothing really /wrong/ with Africans, strictly speaking, it is simply that they don’t belong living among /us/. They aren’t adapted to our modes of living, they can’t handle it — no fault of their own, we should never have disturbed them and disrupted their own natural course of development, never should have bothered them or brought them here in the first place.

    The problem we have now is that, having caused the problem of bringing them among us and exploiting them, we now can’t make them go away. Which would be healthier for them if they did. But we have nicer stuff than they do, and they can’t make nice stuff on their own, but they’d rather stick around and have nice stuff in a place where they are obviously uncomfortable, than go off on their own, be comfortable, ekk and ook amongst themselves, but not have stuff that’s quite as nice. They want to keep living in a world that has elevators and running water and cell phones and White women, but they have absolutely no idea how any of these things came about. Which is where the violence comes in.

    White people create Central Park. Africans create the Central Park Five. This is a problem with an obvious solution, which nobody is willing to state.

  44. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:

    My uncle was one of those militant, upper-middle class liberals. He deliberately moved to an all-black ghetto neighborhood and sent his three white sons to all-black inner city schools. Son #1 ended up mentally ill, and #2 suffers from anxiety disorders and has never worked. #3 has told me he that he never wants to live like that again, and he’s all about gaining material wealth these days, though he’s still a Democrat, unfortunately.

    • Replies: @Anon
  45. Additional evidence suggests these effects are due to attending school with crime-prone peers, rather than living in the same neighborhood.

    Or having otherwise similar, albeit non-criminal, parents.

  46. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @njguy73

    Yeah, I still can’t believe that. In older times this would not have happened. This was mainly because men who committed serious crimes used to be banished from polite society by that coterie of women who policed whomever could be let into your social circle. That way the offspring of decent people didn’t meet the offspring of crooks.

    But these days it seems money washes all sins away.

  47. @Jonathan Mason

    If they were actually innocent of what they were convicted of, they were almost certainly guilty of something else.

    The OJ Effect. Or Cosby, now.

    • Replies: @Walsh2
  48. Walsh2 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Tyson effect. He didn’t rape that girl, it was a money grab. He always maintained his innocence as to the rape but said in multiple interviews that he’d done enough bad things that he deserved the time.

  49. @Almost Missouri

    In this, episode #25730 of Sociologists Manage to Demonstrate What Normal People Knew All Along …

    Seriously, is the entire intellectual effort of modernity the painstaking recapitulation of what was already obvious to any medieval peasant?

    No actually most of the “intellectual” effort of modernity goes into trying to deny what was obvious to any medieval peasant.

    Then there are a few actual intellectuals who essentially have to walk around with statistical pooper scoopers and prove that the medieval peasant was indeed correct in their common sense and the modern “intellectual” full of it.

  50. mungerite says:

    OT: Widely off-topic, but I’m hoping Zach Goldberg (yeoman’s work!) reads iSteve enough to pick up on this. I wonder if he has replicated the wokeness-word-count analysis on the WSJ — I imagine it would show some sort of increase over time, but at nowhere near the rates shown by the NYT. It would be useful to have some measure of the absolute shift in the WSJ, and the relative shift between the two outlets. In addition, it might offer some evidence for / against the idea (canard, trope, joke) that the political shift in the US has been about the right moving further right, and the left staying in place.

  51. @Lot

    At least Jim Beam’s workers can buy the stuff in their own county. Jack Daniel’s can’t. The Daniels were Scotch-Irish (yes, I know it’s “Scots”), and the Beams German. It was changed from Böhm.

    Kentucky’s Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC! ABCD!) lists golf courses on their map. Hmmm…

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    , @Anonymous
  52. @AnotherDad

    No actually most of the “intellectual” effort of modernity goes into trying to deny what was obvious to any medieval peasant.

    Race differences weren’t obvious to them. Not yet…

  53. res says:

    The paper is available on libgen with DOI 10.3386/w25730

    I have not had a chance to go through the paper in detail, but some things jumped out at me.

    The paper demographics seem odd given the county demographics.

    Background characteristics are shown in the second panel of Table 1. Half of our sample is male, 42 percent are black, and 7 percent are Hispanic.

    vs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecklenburg_County,_North_Carolina#Demographics

    The racial makeup of the county was 64.02% White, 27.87% Black or African American, 0.35% Native American, 3.15% Asian, 0.05% Pacific Islander, 3.01% from other races, and 1.55% from two or more races. 6.45% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.

    Why the substantial black over-representation in the paper?

    I find this statement (random and uncorrelated) difficult to believe:

    To distinguish the eects of school and neighborhood peers from confounding factors due to nonrandom selection, we exploit the natural population variation across cohorts. Intuitively, we compare children in a given school or neighborhood whose cohort has an idiosyncratically high or low proportion of peers linked to an arrested parent. Importantly, we show that this variation in peers is consistent with a random process, and is uncorrelated with other observed determinants of cognitive and non-cognitive outcomes.

    The obvious variable to consider here is race (both for individuals and school demographics), but I am not seeing this in their analysis (I welcome correction from someone who better understands what they are doing, my sense is they are intentionally avoiding this issue). This is especially true given the disparity seen in Table 1 where if I interpret it correctly the 42% of blacks in the sample account for 70% of the students with parents arrested.

    Here is current demographic information for schools in the county:
    http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/cmsdepartments/StudentPlacement/PlanningServices/Documents/2018-19%20School%20Diversity%20Report.pdf
    They seem fairly segregated to my eyes. That seems like an important variable to consider.

    I would be interested in an analysis by someone else. Anyone? Art Deco, what do you think? (I saw your comments above, but don’t think those speak to my points)

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  54. Olorin says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Catch and release is good.

    Wainamoinen didn’t, and while we got kanteles out of the deal…well, jeez, what we all wouldn’t give to hang out with THAT fish on a summer’s day.

    I’ll bet it knew all kinds of cool stuff. Just imagine its gardens of shipwrecks.

    A good fish to hang out with. Or to peer down at from above, through transparent invisible lake ice at 20 below, skate blades singing like violins, pausing to kneel and cup the eyes and peer into the sunlit lakebottom below.

    And the lunker himself looking up from his wintry slumber, wondering what kind of lanky angels fly overhead, strange silhouettes moving or still, who make the entire lake hum and chortle and bump.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  55. @Art Deco

    ‘…A different question is thus: why use public agency as a delivery vehicle for schooling? Transportation costs have declined to such an extent in the postwar period that very few people live in areas so depopulated that they unable to support multiple schools within commuting distance. Schools operated by private philanthropies but financed by vouchers issued by county governments would address distributional questions while allowing in a given area a variety of options for different segments of the market.’

    I don’t necessarily disagree, but there is the argument that in an increasingly fragmented society, common public schooling is one of the few elements left still making for social cohesion.

    Obviously — at least it’s obvious to me — I wouldn’t want my daughter going to school with blacks, but I’ve just moved up to a small city in Southern Oregon. If I did have more children, wouldn’t it be better if they went to school with a fair cross-sampling of the local population rather than being drawn off into some social elite or religious sect?

    Interestingly, I’m reminded of Obama. He had a very elite, privileged background, including, among other institutions, the traditional elite private high school in Hawaii.

    It was striking listening to him relate to and interact with ordinary, white Americans — Hillary Clinton’s ‘deplorables.’ He might as will have been the young Prince of Wales visiting his Bushmen subjects. He literally had no idea who the average American was.

    So do we want that to be our future — or would we like everyone to at least know what everyone else is like?

  56. @res

    ‘Why the substantial black over-representation in the paper?’

    More children. Fewer in private schools or home-schooled.

    • Replies: @res
  57. George says:

    I think that was Trayvon Martin’s parents’ plan when they moved to Sanford FL.

    It might also explain the interest in having their kid go to Stuyvesant and similar schools even if their kid probably couldn’t handle the material. Those Stuyvesant parents complaining about Carranza might want to consider that and offer a solution.

    It might also explain the interest in sending their kids to Charter schools that the educrats say are no better or even worse academically than their ‘zoned’ school. Theory: The less academically skilled your kid is the more you want them away from ‘bad elements’.

    • Replies: @Ed
  58. @Anonymous

    ‘Do other species have “very confused mental landscapes”? No, they do not. Why would you suppose that someone of a different IQ would have one then?’

    He’d be confused because he’s trapped in an environment designed for people more intelligent than he.

    Ever seen a dog caught in heavy traffic?

    • Replies: @donut
  59. Art Deco says:
    @Calvin X Hobbes

    No, I’m advocating incorrigibles be sequestered.

    Some years ago, I read a brief memoir by a fellow who’d enlisted in Teach for America and had a disastrous experience in a slum elementary school. He said if you’d removed four students (out of 22) in his class, he might have accomplished something. You need to remove those four students.

  60. @Jonathan Mason

    All the children get free breakfast and lunch at school and can also have it during school vacations if they wish.

    Proving that education is indeed mostly just baby-sitting.

    My friend, who left her husband and is now broke and living in an apartment, gets free meals for her kids at the local school. Is it because she’s broke? Not really; food is pretty darn cheap. It’s because she’s so busy with three kids and a job that it’s easier for her to have the school feed them than to try to organize breakfast and lunch in her own home. The school babysits her kids for her all day.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    , @Alden
  61. @Calvin X Hobbes

    This article argues that the “School-to-Prison Pipeline” is a very bad thing.
    If this “School-to-Prison Pipeline” prevents criminal students from sabotaging the education and even the lives of other students, that’s something pretty good.

    Exactly.

    As i’ve argued before “nationalism”–having a particular people owning a particular geographic territory–along with responsible republican government solves most political problems and allows people to live in freedom in accord with their nation’s norms and develop their talents.

    However, aligning the polity with geography means of course that the nation must repel invaders–the big failure in the West today–and also that it lacks the traditional tribal solution to dealing with miscreants–just tossing them out! (Again, another instance of the general principle of free association–the right to associate with the people you want–that’s been under constant attack this last 50+ by minoritarianism. Saying “no” or “go away” to people is the most important right.)

    We don’t need more tolerance we need less. It would be good to have some sort of Devils Island arrangement where we could just chuck our criminals who do not merit execution. Of course, in the US–and increasingly in the West in general–a big part of the criminal problem simply stems from the ethnic diversity. Large numbers of people simply aren’t a good fit for obeying the social norms of the majority’s civilization, and really should be in their own nation with their own norms.

  62. indocon says:
    @Dr. X

    OMG that is funny. Could the GOP grow jussssst a little spine for this hearing? Hope some committee staffer for GOP reads iSteve. Given the setting and the state of GOP, what questions should the GOP staffers ask? My top would be:
    – What amount of reparations? Use the $70k numbers thrown out on Atlantic as a starter.
    – What % of slave descendent is cutoff?
    – Native Americans included also?
    – What happens if the people who get reparations are back in tech same state in few years? Throw in the Chetty studies as a sneaky reference.
    – Would about white families who were affected by red lining also?

  63. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon7

    My wife’s parents were intellectual NYC college profs/lecturers who lived in public housing right next to Harlem

    How were they able to qualify for public housing?

    • Replies: @George
    , @Anon7
  64. @Reg Cæsar

    At least Jim Beam’s workers can buy the stuff in their own county. Jack Daniel’s can’t. The Daniels were Scotch-Irish (yes, I know it’s “Scots”), and the Beams German. It was changed from Böhm.

    There were a lot of Germans in the South at the time of the American Secessionry War from the British Empire.

    Some of my ancestors had surnames of Rader and Andes and Reinhard.

  65. Art Deco says:
    @Anon

    John Paul Stevens and Walter Annenberg had plenty of entree, the Depression-era criminal convictions of their fathers notwithstanding.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    , @njguy73
  66. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Even most Whites have had a hard time catching up with modernity. It is no surprise whatsoever that most Africans cannot handle it — not mentally, not culturally, not institutionally, not even physically.

    Please tell us how you would define “modernity”.

  67. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Because modernity, which is extremely complex, is from an ev-psych standpoint, a very, very, very, VERY recent development. Most of the horrific wars of the 20th-century were, at bottom, caused by failed attempts of humanity to catch up with modernity. Technology moves much, much, MUCH faster than human institutions do. This has been so since the dawn of mankind. But modernity makes it a million times worse.

    Germ Theory, that was an excellent post–end-to-end.

    But especially the paragraph above. (We do discuss about the benefits of separation a bit, but much more rarely this issue.)

    Even whites–pretty well adapted, i think, to mid-latitude agriculture and work as craftsmen (thousands of years of gene-culture co-evolution)–are not yet well adapted to the industrial revolution.

    And the post-industrial world, especially the effects of the birth control pill–we are reeling! It’s not even clear if we can recover.

    • Agree: AndrewR
  68. @Art Deco

    You need to remove the 4 students with some noise. They probably don’t care about consequences, but the other students will watch and see what happens to unmanageables. I learned a great deal about discipline from some brats getting paddled and embarrassed because of their behavior (in the 1970’s). Had they just disappeared, the lesson would have had less impact on me.

  69. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Race differences weren’t obvious to them.

    Citation needed.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  70. @Bugg

    I’m operating off of Reyes 2002 statement, which was evaluated as accurate. (Who did the evaluating? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?) Which means, essentially, that the Five didn’t rape the jogger because they were busy committing DIFFERENT felony assaults on the other side of the park.

    The statements were certainly legal by court standards. But they aren’t especially consistent with each other (minor problem–five dudes all agreed that one of the five did the raping and the others just held her down, everybody’s guilty of gang-rape) or with the Reyes forensics (major problem).

    But does that mean that the statements were true? Or is it that, given the pressure of an interrogation, a good number of 80 IQ dolts will end up confessing to pretty much whatever the cops interrogating them believe to be true?

    (I’m not blaming the cops–it was a very reasonable assumption that the dirtbags who were beating people up in the park were responsible for the rape in the park. The assumption doesn’t seem to have been true–that’s how fucked up 1980s New York was.)

    Would you now propose some immunity for young stupid men of color?
    WE have the Fifth Amendment, originally, to prevent confessions obtained by torture. Interrogation isn’t torture, but there is still the big question of false confessions.

    And there was physical proof; the women’s injuries were consistent with mutiple assailants
    This has been challenged by the Reyes account of things. I haven’t followed up there yet.

    some the 5 had dirt form the scene on them,
    Central Park dirt is pretty much all the same. They were certainly committing OTHER crimes that night.

    others had semen in their underwear,
    Doesn’t every 14-15 year old boy have trace amounts of semen in their underwear?

    and one had his face scratched by the vicitim.
    By *a* victim, anyway.

    By your logic the getaway driver in the bank robbery is not guilty either.
    Well, if he was busy robbing a different bank……

    I know how dangerous New York was at that time, I grew up there back then.

    But now we’re being told that they were “innocent.” A pipe and another 4-6 felony assaults that night says different.

    • Replies: @bomag
  71. here ya go steve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiww-9wN5c, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXZuGIMuwQ

    the “conspiracy” is not exactly like cosa nostra. it’s more subtle. it’s the powerful (aka the rich) pursuing their own interests and SELECTING their underlings for vacuity, stupidity, and obedience.

    chomsky has no credibility on why the US reflexively supports israel or on global warming, but he’s right about how the “conspiracy” works.

    who has the gold makes the rules.

  72. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @indocon

    So the snowflake wasn’t doing well in math at Sidwell, and is suing Sidwell because she didn’t get into the colleges of her choice and had to end up at *sob* the despicable University of Pennsylvania. Oh, the shock. The horror. This is all after her parents had already sued Sidwell for giving her low math grades in the first place. So Sidwell is being sued twice by this family.

    Her name sounds black African, and her parents well-versed in shaking down easy to guilt-trip goodwhites.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
  73. @Anonymous

    Do other species have “very confused mental landscapes”? No, they do not. Why would you suppose that someone of a different IQ would have one then?

    Not really. My dog is not the smartest, having failed her exams to be a service dog due to the fact that “all she wants to do is play, and has no desire to work”, according to her report card, however she functions perfectly as a much-loved family dog and has no delinquent behaviors at all, unless you count digging unwanted holes in my herbaceous borders.

    But humans are different. A person with a functional IQ of around 70 can do a bit of basic reading, and sign their name on a form, and pass a driver test after a few goes, but they tend to have little understanding of the world around them, of how things interlock, of cause and effect, which makes them very self-centered and not looking at the big picture regarding their behavior.

    They are unlikely to learn lessons about life from literature. When they have high levels of testosterone and lack adults whom they look up to and respect, they are likely to get into all kinds of criminal mischief. Think Lord of the Flies. The deeper they get into the rabbit hole of delinquent behavior, the less likely it is that interventions other than incarceration will work.

    Even within prison populations there is a minority that cannot function properly in prison, and such inmates spend a lot of time in confinement for petty breaches of rules, meaning that their release date is delayed by the amount of time they are locked up, and many inmates become regular “box babies” and spend most of their prison time in a kennel.

    On the other hand, the majority of inmates adjust and try to use their time constructively. Many obtain the GED in prison, having failed to graduate from high school in the normal way. The “box babies” are much more likely to come back to prison after they have completed their sentence.

  74. njguy73 says:
    @Art Deco

    You think either would have had a chance to be president?

  75. njguy73 says:
    @Art Deco

    You think either would have had a chance to be president?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  76. njguy73 says:
    @Anon

    Sailer needs to do a podcast with Lion.

  77. @stillCARealist

    Proving that education is indeed mostly just baby-sitting.

    Of course it is, but with a bit of luck kids will learn a few things along the way.

    My little one asked today who were the first babies in the world. I answered that Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel, and my other daughter quickly chipped in to explain that:

    Cain slew Abel
    With the leg of a table

    So I was impressed with her erudition. My daughters then promised that they would not kill each other. At least not today.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @guest
  78. @Olorin

    A beautiful reference from Finland I see.

    I didn’t know about Wainamoinen, so I looked him up and discovered The Kalevala. Thank you for teaching me.

  79. Altai says:

    OT: Featured story on BBC News.com.

    The women who are killing it in taxidermy

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-48386470

    It’s important that you understand it’s not just men doing taxidermy anymore.

    Also a major escalation in conflict between Saudi, Israel, Iran and if John Bolton isn’t just there as a negotiation feign by Trump to scare the shit out of everyone, the USA.

  80. I flatted in London with the son of a lunatic old Labour left wing Jewish LSE law professor who sent him to a comprehensive for ideological reasons. He got into Cambridge okay but hated it because he was out of place. His friends from there were all genuine super smart working class scholarship kids who had no such hangups.

  81. Altai says:

    Also OT: Vodafone internet is down across much of Europe. I wonder…

    https://www.cbronline.com/news/vodafone_banks_on_outsourcing

    Oh yeah…

  82. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Proving that education is indeed mostly just baby-sitting.

    Of course it is.

    Is there a better use of young people’s time than to be babysat for 13 years?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
  83. @Art Deco

    A different question is thus: why use public agency as a delivery vehicle for schooling? Transportation costs have declined to such an extent in the postwar period that very few people live in areas so depopulated that they unable to support multiple schools within commuting distance. Schools operated by private philanthropies but financed by vouchers issued by county governments would address distributional questions while allowing in a given area a variety of options for different segments of the market.

    Spot on, Art.

    Furthermore we need the market just to get a real exploration of technological potential. There’s no reason we should still be using the Fordist model for educational production.

    An obvious “for instance” is math. There’s basically zero benefit to having “math class”–i.e. a bunch of students together in a room. The cirriculum is more or less canned through at least Linear Algebra or Differential Equations. (Probably beyond–i wasn’t a math major and my math beyond that was all mathematical methods for physics.) And students are capable–or not!–of absorbing it a wildly different rates. The “failure to understand” is, 99%, usually along some well trod “paths” which can be detected by what mistakes they are making.

    The whole thing sets up pretty straightforwardly for computer based instruction:
    — show a lesson, outlining a new key concepts
    — show how to use those to solve problems
    — given them problems
    — figure out from their failures what they aren’t understanding–explain that
    — given them problems
    — rinse and repeat until they are grasping what they need to grasp
    — move on to next concept
    — continually cycle back and review and test to gel what they’ve learned

    But while computerized instruction exists, there really isn’t yet the market to do it well. Schools are teaching math the same old, same old way. And paying math teachers–of highly varying quality–a packet.

    Let a hundred flowers bloom. And in the process we can greatly reduce the contention over racial and cultural issues as well.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Lot
    , @Lot
  84. @Anon

    “kids whose genes want them to be delinquents will, come hell or high water, find delinquent peers one way or another, while goodie-two-shoe kids will not be adversely affected by delinquent peers”

    The experience of friends who were so shocked by their first son’s poor results (at a state school where the kids were treated as adults i.e. if a child was skipping classes no one told the parents – he fell in with a streetwise crowd of teenage gamblers) that they crippled themselves financially to send their second son, very similar intellectually, to private school (where you could get straight As and still be one of the cool kids) doesn’t bear that out.

    It may be that generations of parents just put all that effort into policing their child’s peer group for nothing and didn’t know what they were doing, but I doubt it.

    My parents kept me from children who were rough
    Who threw words like stones and wore torn clothes
    Their thighs showed through rags they ran in the street
    And climbed cliffs and stripped by the country streams.

    I feared more than tigers their muscles like iron
    Their jerking hands and their knees tight on my arms
    I feared the salt coarse pointing of those boys
    Who copied my lisp behind me on the road.

    They were lithe they sprang out behind hedges
    Like dogs to bark at my world. They threw mud
    While I looked the other way, pretending to smile.
    I longed to forgive them but they never smiled.

    • Replies: @Anon
  85. Art Deco says:
    @TWS

    See Thomas Sowell, esp Vision of the Anointed. Their ideology is often reducible to an exercise in self-congratulation. Harder to sustain when you’re conniving to avoid the work product of the DC School Board.

  86. Art Deco says:
    @Anon

    About Judith Rich Harris, cue Mandy Rice-Davies.

  87. Art Deco says:
    @njguy73

    Not sure. Neither had any reason to run. Joseph Kennedy was not a respected figure in the country at large. Didn’t hurt his sons on balance.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  88. @Anon

    When I was 15 years old my uncle explained to me his theory was that he had already achieved the entirety of influence on his 15 year old daughter (my cousin) that he would ever accomplish. He said from here on out her options were entirely determined by her peers.

    She married a guy who wanted to be a professional rock guitarist. : (

    My uncle did not blame himself for this unfortunate development.

    • Replies: @Discordiax
    , @Flip
  89. @Escher

    Escher, nice catch, but that’s obvious on this site. The same study described in the NYT or WaPo will get the presenters banished for life.

  90. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    But while computerized instruction exists

    What are the best ones out there for math?

    • Replies: @danand
  91. @Art Deco

    Art, I would like to see a study showing how the sons of working class dads and the sons of inner city single moms fare after attending an elite Jesuit Prep where they were recruited to play sports. The Jesuits love their sports teams, look where they ranked in any area. They can get all the sons of doctors and lawyers and accountants, but they want the welder’s kid who can throw a football on a rope 60 yards.

    • Replies: @Logan
  92. @Anonymous

    As someone in education, yes, not a good use of their time, at least for the smart kids. They are ready for college or apprenticeships by 16 and is a waste of some of their prime career-building years to be stuck in sitting around with a bunch of mouth breathers an extra 2 years in an artificial, prisonlike environment.

    With the junior criminals and mouth breathers they probably do need to stay in the school system until 18 or 19. Keeps the public safer, keeps a lot of them out of trouble when they are at their most volatile.

    Many problems with our educational system could be solved by hardcore tracking. Not even getting into the potential racial issues that complicate tracking, but it will NEVER happen because school counselors and delusional parents tell literally retarded/learning disabled kids (Forrest Gump level, not vegetables) that they can be nurses/scientists/engineers. No joke…

    • Agree: Triumph104
  93. Alex-CA says:
    @Bugg

    Agree with Bugg. As to Discordiax’s statement that “It seems fairly clear that, contra our heroes Derbyshire and Coulter, the Five did not rape the jogger“: No, that’s incorrect.

    It’s likely to a high degree of confidence that none of the Five penetrated the jogger, or at least that none of them ejaculated inside her. However, they were all participants in and accessories to the rape and brutal beating.

    Kharey Wise, in a phone call from jail to a female friend before the trial: I didn’t rape anyone, I “only held her legs down while Kevin fucked her.” This statement was voluntarily given, not to the police. The friend came forward to the police before the trial.

    Raymond Santana, while being transported to the precinct for participation in the gang assaults on others in the park: “I had nothing to do with the rape. All I did was feel the woman’s tits.” This statement was made while the jogger was still lying unconscious in the park, having been left for dead, and had not even been found yet. It was not coerced; the cops didn’t even know about the rape yet.

    Kevin Richardson: asked about the scratch on his face the morning after, first said he fell and then that he got it from the arresting officer. When the questioning officer said the arresting officer was in the next room and he would go ask him, Richardson admitted that he got the scratches from the jogger. At this point the jogger was still in a coma and nobody knew whether she would recover, let alone that she would have no memory of the incident when she did.

    Matias Reyes’s confession was never tested by cross-examination, and the DA’s office (eager to return political favors to Sharpton et al.) blocked the police from even interviewing him in prison after his confession. Reyes is a delusional psycho, and his confession of being the “sole attacker” did not match up with the evidence. Among other things, the victim had lacerations consistent with a blade, while Reyes said he only used blunt instruments.

    Further, Reyes said that he caught the victim by coming up behind her in a zigzag pattern while she ran. The victim’s pace was a brisk 8-minute mile. Police tried to re-enact the attack with a female officer running at the same pace; none of the officers in the re-enactment could catch her.

    There’s much, much more. Read the Armstrong report prepared by the police after Reyes’s confession: https://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/Armstrong.pdf

    And an article about the medical evidence: https://www.wsj.com/articles/central-park-joggers-doctors-said-injuries-show-she-was-attacked-by-more-than-one-person-matias-reyes-confession-led-to-convictions-dismissal-of-central-park-five-1403234704

  94. Ian M. says:

    I went to school in inner-city Detroit through seventh grade. While I never got into serious trouble with the police or anything like that, I had friends who did, and their influence resulted in me being much more of a troublemaker than I ever was in eighth grade or in high school when I attended suburban schools with a peer group that was much less mischievous.

  95. guest says:

    I have long suspected scientific literature is involved in a conspiracy to bore us out of Noticing by strategic use of atrocious writing. Because Galileo and Darwin, for instance, are still readable today. No reason that couldn’t continue.

    Crime-Prone Peers is a catchy title. I could almost see it as a Sal Mineo vehicle. The Longterm Effects of Crime-Prone Peers is less interesting, but still okay. But what on earth are Schools and Neighborhoods doing on there? What information is that even providing? Okay, you’re not talking about children who grow up isolated in the wild. Also, they have to attend school of some sort. But doesn’t everyone live in a neighborhood, broadly speaking?

  96. herr derr, greg cochran said schools don’t matter.

    strangely all rich people keep their kids out of the bad schools. what would they know about anything. don’t they realize the ‘outcomes will be exactly the same’? psychological studies say so.

  97. George says:
    @Anonymous

    Might be using the term public housing loosely. NYC has a large number of affordable housing programs, rent control, rent stabilization, Mitchell-Lama and many more

    Waiting List Opens For Harlem Mitchell-Lama Building
    Rents at Harlem’s Bethune Towers start at $741 for studios and $991 for one-bedroom apartments.
    https://patch.com/new-york/harlem/waiting-list-opens-harlem-mitchel-lama-building

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-Lama_Housing_Program

    Mitchell lama is also a good way to reward city workers, as they tend to have incomes that are not to high and not to low to qualify.

  98. guest says:
    @Clyde

    If they modify it with “drunken,” then I don’t think drunken is implied by the word itself.

    “Yob” far as I know means rowdy, aggressive young person, usually of the male persuasion. That probably applies to most workingclass public school kids.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  99. @Art Deco

    Some years ago, I read a brief memoir by a fellow who’d enlisted in Teach for America and had a disastrous experience in a slum elementary school.

    Almost certainly this:

    How I Joined Teach for America—and Got Sued for $20 Million
    An idealistic new Yale grad learns up close and personal just how bad inner-city schools can be—and why.

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-i-joined-teach-america%E2%80%94and-got-sued-20-million-12393.html

    And I completely agree about sequestering incorrigibles. That’s the low-hanging fruit for improving education in America, especially for blacks. Students who are not willing to behave themselves should not be allowed to disrupt the education of those who are willing to behave themselves. Even some of the bad ones would be helped, since some of the currently bad ones would start behaving themselves if bad behavior were not tolerated.

    But Obama and his Obamarrhoids waged war against school discipline.

  100. guest says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    “Of course it is”

    But why? And what happens during the summer months when there’s suddenly no babysitter? Some increased mayhem, like PMS only for civilization instead of one female person. But I don’t recall society falling apart. They just do something else.

  101. Lot says:
    @AnotherDad

    I learned my elementary school math using educational video games my parents purchased.

    If the games are well designed they will motivate and capture the attention of students better than teachers.

    My schoolmates loved playing Number Munchers at school.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Stan Adams
  102. Lot says:
    @AnotherDad

    “But while computerized instruction exists, there really isn’t yet the market to do it well.”

    School district technology purchases are often very corrupt. You’d hope that online charter schools would have some great software by now.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  103. @Redneck farmer

    Considering the present Soyboy/Bugman crisis among Western Whites, I think the song lyric should be updated to “Mamas, don’t let your Cowboys grow up to be babies.”

  104. JimB says:

    Parents know instinctually that the apple never falls far from the tree. Which is why they are willing to spend more to live in safe orchards.

  105. @Anonymous

    I see you believe in black knights. But even if they existed, when would the common serf have encountered one?

    Africans would have been like space aliens today.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  106. @Jonathan Mason

    A friend of mine teaches in the Akron, Ohio, school system. For one year, she taught first and second graders, because, she said, they were still sweet. She did know of a second-grader who threatened his classmates with a razor and said that he would be in jail before he was in high school. My friend said that they could tell if a kid turned out bad in the fourth grade.

    • Replies: @Ed
  107. @Jonathan Mason

    One criminal case that I worked on at a law firm that I once worked at involved prisoners in the NJ prison system. Reading their records is a real eye-opener: 18, 19-year-old kids sentenced to 25 years-to-life for murder-robbery, murder-rape, etc. These young men weren’t choir boys who suddenly turned bad at age 18 – probably started when they were 10 or 12-years-old and escalated until someone was killed.

    • Replies: @Alden
  108. @Anon

    I do not think, that the influence parents exert on their children is zero once you account for genes.
    For instance, my father once worked with juvenile delinquents. He had one “client” whose three older brothers all had spent time in jail. The remarkable thing about all of them was, that none of them had become criminal after their release from prison and all were leading solid middle class lives, successful in their jobs, were married, took care of their children etc..
    He later found out, that going to jail was an initiation ritual in this family. The way he described the boy and his older brothers, I do not think it likely, that any of them would have become a criminal, had they grown up in a family with middle-class values.

    • Replies: @Anon
  109. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Do you not think there was an awareness that there were various nations/races in the British Isles or on the continent?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  110. @Anon

    Yeah, the only “sin” today is to be a “bigot” towards certain groups and behaviors. Personal integrity no longer matters, but heaven forfend if you practice psychology without a license (one of the definitions of “bigotry”).

    A comment I made on Breitbart was purged because I referred to Mayor Buttplug as Mayor Buttplug. I think that Unz.com is more tolerant (I hope).

  111. istevefan says:

    So any guesses as to why this type of research is coming out now? Are we about to see an about-face by liberals about sending their kids to public schools?

  112. TWS says:
    @Art Deco

    That’s why I moved my kids to a small town. It went t-u when they moved in illegals but before that it was really nice

  113. Anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Spelevator.

  114. Ed says:

    I’m guessing the British sons of intellectuals got beat up or didn’t have a great social experience. So they bounced. Wealthy girls might end up higher in the social pecking order compared to working class girls.

    This is a little different in America, especially among blacks the boys would get beat up and the girls too.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  115. @Lot

    “It’s nearly impossible to duplicate the mental state of a person of significantly different intelligence”

    Duplicate is a strong word, but I have a general idea:

    FWIW, abuse of alcohol and some drugs is correlated with higher intelligence which may be a feature of novelty-seeking, but is likely also a means to suppress certain internal dialogues of intelligent people.

    I find myself that I can grasp a certain level of clarity for a time while fairly well intoxicated. I had made a habit of writing down or texting ideas to myself – I find that 80-85% are ridiculous junk, while the remainder can have some diamonds in the rough.

  116. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ed

    Do blacks in American schools beat up white kids?

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  117. Anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alec Leamas

    while the remainder can have some diamonds in the rough.

    Care to share an example to help illustrate?

  118. anon[135] • Disclaimer says:

    Bad apples and barrels? Science is so brilliant.

  119. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    The experience of friends who were so shocked by their first son’s poor results (at a state school where the kids were treated as adults i.e. if a child was skipping classes no one told the parents – he fell in with a streetwise crowd of teenage gamblers) that they crippled themselves financially to send their second son, very similar intellectually, to private school (where you could get straight As and still be one of the cool kids) doesn’t bear that out.

    Intelligence and personality are two different things, the first measured by IQ tests and similar, the second by Five Factor personality tests. Both of them are genetic. Poor results, if purely intelligence, would be fixed at conception (or birth, taking fetal development into account) and measurable in its final form at about age 17 (it’s hard to get a final fix before that age due to the Wilson Effect).

    Wild behavior is also very heritable and you settle down to whatever you’re going to be, personality wise, as you get older.

    Children of the same parents are each different. The reason you rely on large sample research is to avoid the pitfalls of anecdotal theories.

    Plomin still allows, however, for about 25 percent “non-shared environmental” influence, but he thinks the trend is that this will shrink as they discover more. And “non-shared environmental” means “not ‘shared environmental’” rather than “environment that is not shared.” Non-shared environmental includes random stuff that is not thought of as “environment,” for example, unique mutations caused by fetal developmental glitches, exposure in the fetus to bad stuff, conks on the head, gamma rays, and so on. There is quite a lot that can happen to the fetus and infant after intitial conception and sperm-egg mietosis; this is covered well by Kevin Mitchell in his recent book.

  120. @dearieme

    He became Prime Minister of the UK. He’s smart alright

  121. @bomag

    As I recall, those studies also showed that white performance deteriorated from the same contact, and do I also recall that the aggregated white deterioration was greater than the black improvement?

    • Replies: @bomag
  122. OT:
    Oberlin College hit with maximum PUNITIVE DAMAGES (capped at $22 million by law) in Gibson’s Bakery case
    Added to $11 million compensatory damages, brings total to $33 million
    Thursday, June 13, 2019 at 3:23pm
    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-hit-with-maximum-punitive-damages-capped-at-22-million-by-law-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    , @Lot
    , @Buffalo Joe
  123. @Cagey Beast

    Carmen Twillie Ambar
    President of Oberlin College

  124. JimB says:

    It used to be possible to see for yourself in CA during the NCLB years on a public school-by-school basis by checking Great Schools for test scores broken down by race as a function of overall school demographics. Whites surrounded by mostly whites performed average or above but dropped below average when surrounded by browns by an amount somewhat related to the fraction of the nonwhite population.

    • Replies: @Sextus Empiricus
  125. Lot says:
    @Cagey Beast

    Four years and debt from Oberlin is a lot worse for the prospects of a bright kid than going to a public high school in a rough neighborhood. Shut it down!

  126. Lot says:
    @Alec Leamas

    “FWIW, abuse of alcohol and some drugs is correlated with higher intelligence which may be a feature of novelty-seeking”

    Abuse is negatively correlated with intelligence, light recreational use is positively. We see this most strongly with alcohol: light users are smarter than complete avoiders.

    Novelty seeking is probably the big personality factor though.

  127. bomag says:
    @Almost Missouri

    …white deterioration was greater than the black improvement?

    Yes, but quite a lot was from high performing Whites fleeing to private school/home school.

  128. @Alec Leamas

    FWIW, abuse of alcohol and some drugs is correlated with higher intelligence which may be a feature of novelty-seeking, but is likely also a means to suppress certain internal dialogues of intelligent people.

    You rang?

    Who else is crushing a 6-pack of Sam ’76 to start the weekend early!

    Novelty seeking is probably the big personality factor though.

    After living overseas 4 years and visiting 20+ countries I have little interest in the local bars.

  129. bomag says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Man, you nailed it with this post.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  130. res says:
    @Colin Wright

    That makes sense. I was surprised at the magnitude (28% to 42%, or a 50% over-representation). That seems high to me unless there are local issues scaring whites out of the public schools more than usual. Which might be the case given the topic of the paper.

  131. @dearieme

    Toni Blair

    Has Tony Blair been transitioning? Why does no one tell us Americans these things?

    • Replies: @Lot
  132. @Anon

    these days it seems money washes all sins away.

    Our ‘cultural leaders’ teach by example that Money is All that Matters.

  133. @indocon

    Dayo Adetu and her parents, Titilayo and Nike Adetu

    Yep, African Americans. Salt of the Earth. Already won one lawsuit against the school, which dared to grade their snowflake on her math performance.

    The girl didn’t even get into Spelman. How dumb a keeyid gotta be to get rejected by Spelman?? No wonder they mad.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
  134. @Dr. X

    If reparations actually come through, a smart person who starts a chain of stores in majority chocolate cities can make a killing selling rims, gold jewelry, knives/machetes and fried chicken.

    All joking aside, some smart people will quickly find ways to exploit the short time preference of the fellas and the money will be swiftly flowing back into the market with little effect.

    • Replies: @danand
    , @Dr. X
    , @Clyde
  135. NYMOM says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    The wisdom of the ancients…

  136. @Cagey Beast

    Cagey, Thank you for the link This case should be an iSteve post for all here to read and rejoice.

  137. Philip Neal says: • Website

    See under Young.

    Young, Michael, Lord Young of Dartington: admitted to pricey, leftish private school Dartington Hall as a poor relation; as teacher’s pet; advises Labour governments; founds the Open University; coins the (originally satirical) word meritocracy; friendship with Anthony Crosland; sends son to comprehensive state school; awarded life peerage.

    Young, the Hon. Toby: as high school punk rocker and anarchist; Brasenose College, Oxford admits after attention drawn to adversity of; career as journalist and educationalist; Tory public spirit of; laddish, pretend working class Twitter jokes of; as class realist; Watsoning of.

  138. Anon7 says:
    @Anonymous

    I don’t live there, so I don’t know what everything is called. In looking it up on Wikipedia, I see that it is a housing cooperative built in the 1950’s. I think the construction was subsidized by the city. I think mostly middle-class people lived there. NYC was a very different place in the mid-1960’s. My wife was free to go anywhere in the city that the buses and subways went by the time she was 13.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  139. Dave2 says:

    I live in rural white America, and I was shocked by how many of my daughter’s classmates had daddies in prison. When the womb-productive are entitled to free food, housing, and health care, they choose to breed with sexy bad boys — impulsive low-IQ heavily-tattooed petty criminals.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Corn
  140. @Lot

    The booze might not give you much of an idea of what it’s like to be significantly less intelligent, but it does give you a decent idea of what it’s like to have significantly lower impulse control.

  141. @Reg Cæsar

    From Merry Olde England, 1596 A.D.:

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/transcripts/privy_council.htm

    Money quote:

    … Her Ma[jes]tie understanding that there are of late divers Blackmoores brought into the Realme, of which kinde of people there are all ready here to manie, consideringe howe God hath blessed this land w[i]th great increase of people of our owne Nation as anie Countrie in the world, wherof manie for want of Service and meanes to sett them on worck fall to Idlenesse and to great extremytie; Her Ma[jesty’]s pleasure therefore ys, that those kinde of people should be sent forthe of the lande. …

    Doubling down four years later (in surprising more modern English):

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/blackhistory/early_times/transcripts/deportation_van_senden.htm

    … the Queen’s majesty, tendering the good and welfare of her own natural subjects, greatly distressed in these hard times of dearth, is highly discontented to understand the great number of Negroes and blackamoors which (as she is informed) are carried into this realm since the troubles between her highness and the King of Spain; who are fostered and powered here, to the great annoyance of her own liege people that which co[vet?] the relief which these people consume, as also for that the most of them are infidels having no understanding of Christ or his Gospel: hath given a special commandment that the said kind of people shall be with all speed avoided and discharged out of this her majesty’s realms

    With a based Queen, racial differences are obvious.

    Welfare leeches were already a problem in the sixteenth century.

    Okay, that’s a bit later than the middle ages, but there were still plenty of medieval-tier peasants around.

  142. FPD72 says:

    This study only verifies what the Apostle Paul wrote nearly 2,000 years ago in 1 Corinthians 15:33: “Do not be deceived: ‘Bad company corrupts good morals,’” citing the ancient poet Menander.

  143. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    #2 suffers from anxiety disorders

    Anxiety is genetic and heritable, and is genetically indistinguishable from most types of depression. That’s another thing I learned from Robert Plomin’s book. And we all are somewhere on the “spectrum” for all mental illnesses (in Plomin’s coinage, “The abnormal is normal”). The risk genes are distributed in a bell curve over the entire population.

    Expression of the genetic tendancy, in degree and type (depression vs. anxiety) may or may not have something to do with one’s environment: That’s still up in the air. But you shouldn’t read too much into kid numer 2’s anxiety.

  144. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Say what you like about IQ or low IQ or whatever, the simple fact is that Modernity is a strictly White invention, and it’s a very recent one.

    You’re approaching the analysis that Nicolas Wade made in A Troublesome Inheritance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Troublesome_Inheritance

    The book was controversial and triggered the usual “We the Undersigned” letter by academics who had not read the book, which was very reasonable and only really speculative on a couple of points.

    Basically, anthropologists had come up with various ways to measure “culture” in various populations, including hunter-gatherers in South America, the Philippines, and elsewhere, as well as primitive farming populations. These measures were social traits such as “radius of trust.” Various levels of these traits seemed to correllated with level of civilization.

    Then genetics came along and, whoops!, these traits seem to be, uh, heritable and genetically bases. Suddenly anthropologists didn’t like their own analysis anymore.

    At any rate, Wade thinks that modern societies require traits less seen in, uh, black people. Both Asians and Europeans have more conducive to modernity type traits, although slightly different. Middle Eastern is considered a separate race if you cluster to 7 races, so they also have different levels for the traits. Wade does allow that culture may be more dominant than genetics, but he feels culture is mediated by an underlying genetic nudge.

  145. @JimB

    It is humiliating for vibrant folks to be constantly intellectually outperformed by whites – which is going to be obvious when they are mixed in the same classroom. Rather than raise their standards and abilities through study and effort (“stop akkin whiee!”), they release their frustrated anger on the heads of said whites in the bathroom, after school, on the bus, or right on the spot in class. Suddenly there is an incentive for whitey in vibrant surroundings to underperform.

  146. donut says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yes they’re confused but a human might be as well . What I did see once on Greenmount Ave. was a bunch of Negros step out into traffic and continue on and a dog step off the curb look at the heavy volume of traffic and step back onto the sidewalk .

  147. @Art Deco

    Interesting to consider: Among Joseph Kennedy’s crimes, real and imagined, it’s likely that only his reputed anti-semitism would prevent his sons from becoming president in the Current Year.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  148. Fmillik says:
    @Art Deco

    My wife is a geriatrician, and I am a lawyer. We live in a small town in Northern Wisconsin (which is very rural). Our kids go to public school, and they will be fine.

    We have a local Catholic and a Lutheran school, aside from the public schools, but it isn’t something I worry about.

  149. @Anon

    The parents are Nigerian. The family’s Nigerian heritage is mentioned in the lawsuit. The lawsuit sounds valid. Dayo is Nigerian, a National Achievement Merit Scholar, a recruited track athlete, and attended Sidwell, but didn’t even receive unconditional admission to Spelman. That alone indicates dishonesty on Sidwell’s part. In addition, Dayo won a $50,000 settlement against Sidwell in 2013.

    The family believes that Sidwell retaliated against Dayo because they had sued the math department on behalf of the older daughter Lola (class of 2009, attended Georgetown University).

    Last month Dayo graduated from Penn with a degree in engineering, so Sidwell’s assessment of her math skills was wrong. If Sidwell had pulled this stunt with a white or Asian, that kid’s life would have been destroyed. Luckily for Dayo she was black and a recruited athlete so she managed to get into Penn after a second round of applications.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7140019/Sidwell-student-takes-case-against-school-Supreme-Court-no-initial-college-acceptances.html
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/18/18-1356/97268/20190423135448437_Adetu%20Appendix%20E%20File%20Apr%2023%202019.pdf

  150. @Mr McKenna

    “Snowflake” just graduated from Penn with a degree in engineering. Sidwell’s math department and administration are in the wrong.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Mr. Anon
  151. Hunsdon says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    George W. Bush became POTUS (rather more than PMUK, one must admit). Do you advance similar praise?

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  152. Hunsdon says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    All right.

    Admittedly, my inner grammar fascist (not Nazi!) rarely comes out—I do not begrudge the use of “clip” when one means “magazine” at least when used informally, but “alright” is really rather a bridge too far.

  153. @Hunsdon

    No worries on the grammar. I don’t usually make that error. Don’t get too picky though…

    Yes, I will advance him the same praise. The problem is not the intelligence, it’s the bought and paid for politicians, it’s the ulterior motives, the agendas, and the Judaic influence.

    Bushie had an IQ of 125.

  154. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    This is a problem with an obvious solution, which nobody is willing to state.

    Including you, apparently. What do you mean, having established that separation isn’t really possible? It’s the only obvious solution I can think of, aside from birth control, by which I mean a sort of birth control (enforced) we dare not discuss in polite society.

    So what’s the obvious solution? You make a lot of good, harsh sense in your post but I’m not sure where exactly it leaves us. I’d like to know.

  155. @Triumph104

    Wow, thanks for the additional intelligence. Seems there is indeed more to the story than first apparent. I’m a mix of fascinated and mystified at this point.

  156. @Dave2

    That’s an important, sobering point. The ‘unintended results’ of ‘good intentions’ never seem to leave us. Rather, they seem to multiply until the ‘unintended’ results are the only results we get.

  157. Ed says:
    @George

    Trayvon Martin parents were split. He lived with his mom in Miami but was getting in trouble at school. He was caught with burglary tools by the school. His mom, being a relatively well paid govt worker decided it was best that he live with his dad, who resided in Stanford, FL. He was with his dad and wasn’t in school at the time of his death. I forget if he was suspended from the Miami school and had the week off or just didn’t enroll at a school in Stanford. Either way I suspect when Zimmerman happened upon him he was casing homes to pilfer during the week.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  158. jim jones says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    To appeal to Labour voters you just have to offer them free stuff

  159. JMcG says:
    @Redneck farmer

    One of the best songs ever written. Of course, I’ve been arrested two and a half times.

  160. JMcG says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    That, sir, is a sublime comment.

  161. @Lot

    Number Munchers … Super Munchers … The Oregon Trail … good times.

    I always played the latter as the banker. Everyone always said, “You’re cheating!” I shrugged my shoulders and said, “You can never be too rich or too thin.” (I wasn’t the latter, to be sure.)

    My favorite was Outnumbered!:

    • Replies: @Lot
  162. Alden says:
    @stillCARealist

    My kids went to private school and we paid a fee for lunch at school. Same thing with the grandchildren. What’s wrong with eating lunch at school? Are kids and parents supposed to run home for lunch? Practically every adult with a job doesn’t run home for lunch. Why should kids? Some of those years I would have had a one hour drive each way to get home to give the kids lunch at home.

  163. Alden says:
    @Anon

    So the wombs of black mothers are toxic. It’s the only explanation for their low IQs, criminality bullying and general horribleness.

  164. Anonymous[707] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Plomin still allows, however, for about 25 percent “non-shared environmental” influence

    What is the other 75 percent?

  165. Anonymous[707] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon7

    Thank you.

    NYC was a very different place in the mid-1960’s. My wife was free to go anywhere in the city that the buses and subways went by the time she was 13.

    How could things have changed so drastically in 10 years?

    • Replies: @Anon7
  166. Anonymous[707] • Disclaimer says:
    @bomag

    How does he define “modernity”?

  167. Alden says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    I was a probation officer. A 21 year old guy would be assigned to me. Just in 3 years as an adult several convictions. Another thing, some liberal grant hustlers got a grant to give IQ tests to everybody convicted and sentenced to county jail. This was before the Hispanic invasion so the inmates were about 90 to 95 percent black.

    The men had IQs in the low 70’s. The women’s IQs were in the mid to low 60s. That’s the average criminal; young dumb and black. The lower IQ of the women can be explained that almost all were prostitutes as well as robbers, thieves, shoplifters and passers of stolen checks.
    Only a retard would be a black prostitute enslaved to a black pimp.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  168. @Anon

    So for countless generations parents have been wasting their time trying to control their children’s peer group?

    Why hasn’t this behaviour died out if there is no advantage to it, just a cost to the parents? I’m told all behaviours are heritable.

  169. danand says:

    Young lady displeased with some of members of her schools staff:

    High School

    • Replies: @Ed
    , @anon
  170. danand says:
    @Sextus Empiricus

    Sextus Empiricus, you could be on to something, maybe add tires to your list:

  171. danand says:
    @Anonymous

    #249, the most ubiquitous free online resource is Khan Academy (Bill Gates). The website:

    https://www.khanacademy.org/

    Many of the young students I am acquainted with learn wrote mathematics, which I think is an initial minimal requirement, take advantage of instruction at one of the Kumon centers (developed by a Japanese high school teacher). Instruction is thru calculus, which is sufficient; a lot of the more advanced stuff is going to require that one become more autodidactic:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumon

  172. Ed says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    It’s generally believed that if kids aren’t reading at grade level by the 4th grade, they never will. The kids that don’t are more likely to end up in jail and have other negative social markers.

  173. Ed says:
    @danand

    She lacks class. Gotta say’s the school’s profile isn’t that bad. I know of schools’ in PG county where the SAT scores of the few that take the exam are <400 in both sections.

  174. bomag says:
    @Discordiax

    But does that mean that the statements were true? Or is it that, given the pressure of an interrogation, a good number of 80 IQ dolts will end up confessing to pretty much whatever the cops interrogating them believe to be true?

    I would hope all IQ levels could maintain the truth.

    You are kind-of suggesting that 80 IQ and lower are too crippled to participate in the criminal justice system.

    From what I’ve read of the case, it was not so much confessions, but those interrogated all related a similar time line of a night of criminal activity that included a gang attack on this woman.

  175. Dr. X says:
    @Sextus Empiricus

    If reparations actually come through, a smart person who starts a chain of stores in majority chocolate cities can make a killing selling rims, gold jewelry, knives/machetes and fried chicken.

    Yeah, but you’re assuming that the recipients of the reparations money will actually politely spend it on that stuff, instead of shooting the clerks to death and stealing it.

  176. @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    His theory was right. By the time she was 15, his failure was baked in the cake.

    He was, of course, wrong to not blame himself.

  177. Clyde says:
    @guest

    The only time I see “yob” in the UK DailyMail is as part of “drunken yob”. Just saying.

  178. Clyde says:
    @Sextus Empiricus

    And this is why a generous reparations lump sum must go along with a one way ticket back to the motherland. A ticket that you are forced to use and are verified on this.

  179. Corn says:
    @Dave2

    He never fully fleshed out the idea but before Henry Harpending died he said on him and Cochran’s blog that welfare should only be paid out to men: let women who want the dole clean up their act and be a good wife to get it.

    Not that the idea would ever be accepted in these grrlpower! times.

  180. Mr. Anon says:
    @Triumph104

    “Snowflake” just graduated from Penn with a degree in engineering. Sidwell’s math department and administration are in the wrong.

    Not necessarily. She got a bad grade in a high school math class. Maybe she didn’t do the work.

  181. @Anonymous

    Do blacks in American schools beat up white kids?

    No. And the Pope is not Catholic despite what you’ve heard otherwise.

  182. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @GermanReader2

    Honestly, you have some reading up to do. This stuff is indeed nonintuitive at first. If you’re pressed for time, the recent Plomin and Mitchell books will do.

    Your example of prison initiation maps perfectly to the explanation in, I believe, Plomin’s book about parents reading to kids.

    I’ll just leave you with this paradoxical saying from genetics: “Children choose their parents.”

    In other words, kids who get read to are read to because their parents want, per their genes, to read to their kids. Those same genes are in the kids and are responsible to the kids having enhanced verbal ability.

    The reading had nothing to do with it. Adoption studies show this. If the kids are adopted by parents who don’t read to them, they turn out the same.

    These studies are done with twins because twins are genetic clones. Four kids in a prison family are just siblings. You cannot predict one from the other.

  183. @Ed

    It’s generally believed that if kids aren’t reading at grade level by the 4th grade, they never will.

    Yeah, I remember thinking “I’m never gonna get out of fourth grade if I don’t know my multiplication tables!”

  184. Anon7 says:
    @Anonymous

    All I can say is that my wife was able to convince her mother to move from the center of the universe (Manhattan) in 1990 when her best friend (aged 80) was brutally murdered in one of those home invasions where a felon follows you into your apartment, kills you and takes whatever you have. Never solved.

  185. Logan says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    That would be very interesting.

  186. @Ed

    My friend taught at middle school level for several years before that – all Black school, most of the kids had no ambition in life beyond being a gangbanger or welfare mamma and stupid, as well, 10-15% of the girls pregnant at any one time. My friend is a devout Christian who opposes abortion and says that we must care for these people.

    She and her husband live in a suburb of Akron and I once asked her if there was public transportation from Akron to her town. Her reply was, “oh, no, we don’t want them here.” A certain amount of hypocrisy, I think.

  187. @Anonymous

    Do you not think there was an awareness that there were various nations/races in the British Isles or on the continent?

    Out in the fields? They couldn’t recognize what they couldn’t see.

    I didn’t say they denied race differences. I said they wouldn’t recognize them.

  188. Anonymous[234] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    ‘The Daniels were Scotch-Irish ‘

    They were Welsh. A couple of years ago an early version of the recipie was found in a house in Wales where some of the descendents had lived.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  189. @Art Deco

    Schools operated by private philanthropies but financed by vouchers issued by county governments…

    …have the same fundamental zero-sum flaw as every other system based on public funding: if the parents have the say, the taxpayers don’t, and vice versa.

    Tax credits make it easier to avoid this. But not perfectly so– ask Bob Jones University.

  190. @Alden

    Interesting about the IQ tests. Contrary to popular belief, most criminals are dumb. The people you mentioned are retarded by White standards – average by African.

    The majority of births are to the underclass and they set the tone of Black culture.

    The welfare mammas supplement their taxpayer-funded income in various ways – what their boyfriends deign to provide, plus additional jobs which range from babysitting to prostitution to dealing drugs. I’ve dealt with them – unbelievable how stupid and just plain weird they are to a middle-class suburban White like myself.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Art Deco
  191. @Anonymous

    Either way, they were Celts. Protestant Celts. Rained on and drunk.

  192. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Yeah, I couldn’t suck much sense from that one,

  193. anon[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    (((Sarah))) got BTFO’d when that tweet made the rounds. In the link they say she’s paid by (((Monsanto))) – i bet she’s never mentioned to her readers how the (((Monsanto))) family got rich on slavery and even richer by peddling their Roundup glyphosate which has poisoned half the earth

  194. anon[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @danand

    read about it on another site and i figured any girl so entitled and self-important had to be either a jewess or an hispanic, and sure enough…..

  195. Art Deco says:
    @Mr McKenna

    it’s likely that only his reputed anti-semitism would prevent his sons from becoming president in the Current Year.

    As far as I can recall (over the last 4 decades), there haven’t been many presidential candidates of note whose father’s views were the subject of discussion in the media, unless said father was a prominent elected official (e.g. Pat Brown, Prescott Bush, Albert Gore Sr., and George Bush the Elder), and not much even in those circumstances. Richard Kerry was a lapsed foreign service officer and published author, but this was discussed only in passing. Discussion of Barack Obama Sr.’s red haze magazine articles was (IIRC) completely subcultural. Vichy evangelicals (e.g. John Fea and Warren Throckmorton) offered a string of bogus complaints at venues like Religion News Service about Ted Cruz referencing his father, but their influence over anything but their own classrooms is nil. Of course, black chauvinists et al accuse Donald Trump of ‘racism’ because his father was arrested for (but never charged with) disorderly conduct proximate to a Klan riot in New York 90 years ago, but lobbing that sort of accusation is like breathing to that crew.

  196. Art Deco says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    Per Richard Herrnstein and James Q Wilson, moderately under par. IIRC from their book, the median IQ of convicts is 93.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
  197. Art Deco says:
    @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    The majority of births are to the underclass and they set the tone of Black culture.

    The employment-to-population ratio among blacks is somewhat depressed as a rule (10%), not severely depressed. An expansive estimate of the share of the black population that might qualify as ‘lumpenproletarian’ at any one time is about 15%. They’d have to have a total fertility rate of about 7 children per woman per lifetime (and the rest of the black population a rate of 1.3 children per woman per lifetime) ‘ere they’d account for a majority of live births in the black population.

  198. Art Deco says:
    @Ed

    He lived with his father in Miami, and was cared for by a pick-up team of his step-mother, his paternal uncle, his paternal uncle’s wife, and his father. Tracy Martin was a long-haul trucker and out of town a great deal. Per his step-mother, they had him about 85% of the time, his mother Sybrina Fulton about 15%. Shortly before the whole fandango with George Zimmerman, his father and step-mother separated. His father had a girlfriend living in the Orlando suburbs and was spending time up there. Trayvon Martin was billeted with his mother temporarily. She got fed up after some sort of domestic argument and put him on a bus to Orlando to stay with his father and papa’s pregnant gf, one Brandi Green. He hadn’t been there long before his encounter with Zimmerman.

    Not often remarked about Trayvon Martin was that he came from a family that was quite ordinary on most measures. His mother was middle-management in one of the local school districts. His father was a long-haul trucker. His uncle was a retired army sergeant. Not sure about the step-mother; my guess looking at her and listening to her would be clerical employee. His father’s gf lived in the same townhouse complex as Zimmerman.

  199. Lot says:
    @Stan Adams

    Never seen that game before, I’ll give it a try.

    Archive.org has nearly every old Dos and Apple II game emulated online.

  200. Lot says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Multiple personalities. Their pronouns are they/their and full name is is Tony! Toni! Toné! Blair.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  201. @Art Deco

    Maybe included white collar criminals.

  202. dearieme says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    Nobody who went to school or university with Blair thought he was bright. Nor did his teachers.

    Unlike Gordon Brown, his rival: Brown had undoubtedly been a clever child.

  203. TheJester says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    He became Prime Minister of the UK. He’s smart alright …

    Is this irony … or, are you serious?

    Theresa May also became Prime Minister of the UK, too, which was perhaps a demonstration on the part of the Tory elite to try to attract voters of mediocre intelligence to their cause.

    These “races to the bottom” can be catching. Recall when Senator Roman Hruska in the United States campaigned for President Nixon’s failed nomination of Judge Harrold Carswell’s to be appointed to the Supreme Court with the infamous words:

    “Even if he (Carswell) were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they, and a little chance? We can’t have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos.”

    In the same spirit, the mediocre citizens of the UK definitely got the mediocre representation they sought and deserved from Tony Blair and Theresa May.

    P.S. Theresa May should have known she was walking into a fatal, unresolvable trap on BRITEX with Irish Border Backstop. Checkmate … with the Irish, ironically and in a major turn of history, now in charge of Britain’s destiny!

  204. dearieme says:
    @Lot

    The full name is Odious Little Twat.

  205. @dearieme

    That’s because he chose to model himself as a rock star kind of dude, I think he even wanted to become an agent for rock stars. You can’t be an average or below average schmuck and become the leader of a country like the UK. Plus, he has a SECOND CLASS HONOURS BA in Jurisprudence from OXFORD. Why do I of all people have to defend these twats?

    • Replies: @anon
  206. anon[357] • Disclaimer says:
    @BengaliCanadianDude

    You can’t be an average or below average schmuck and become the leader of a country like the UK. Plus, he has a SECOND CLASS HONOURS BA in Jurisprudence from OXFORD. Why do I of all people have to defend these twats?

    There has also been some suggestion that some of Blair’s ancestors were Jewish. One of the recent ancestors was a Lipsitz or somesuch, and that family ran a grocery business, if I am correctly recalling the story. Some people hold that Jews on average have higher verbal IQs relative to other groups. It would stand to reason that Blair is intelligent.

  207. @dearieme

    Nobody who went to school or university with Blair thought he was bright. Nor did his teachers.

    Really depends what you mean by bright. He was admitted to Oxford University as an undergraduate and all schools in the UK would regard getting a pupil (student) into Oxford as a high achievement, all the more so if he was not bright.

  208. @TheJester

    No, Theresa may is smart as well

  209. @Lot

    Khan works.

    Kids are ambitious learning machines. They’ve already got enough games. They want the hard stuff.

  210. Flip says:
    @simple_pseudonymic_handle

    She married a guy who wanted to be a professional rock guitarist. : (

    My uncle did not blame himself for this unfortunate development.

    So what ended up happening with her?

  211. Flip says:
    @dearieme

    I saw him speak in Chicago one time and he struck me as quite bright in an unctuous sort of way.

  212. Clyde says:
    @TheJester

    P.S. Theresa May should have known she was walking into a fatal, unresolvable trap on BRITEX with Irish Border Backstop. Checkmate … with the Irish, ironically and in a major turn of history, now in charge of Britain’s destiny!

    Not quite. She has come a long way so respect for a woman like her! But at this point in time she is lazy, worn out and stupid and easily manipulated by Germans. Germans aka that pos communist educated Angela Merkel and their EU Germanic half breeds in Belgium, France, Netherlands wrote out what Brexit Theresa May should present to House of Commons. This is the genesis of this entire mess.
    And wot silly season May presented was a dumb and shameful Brexit that is worse than the UK’s-EU trade status right now.

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