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Let’s count the word choices in this huge New York Times feature article:

California Drought Tests History of Endless Growth
The state’s history as a frontier of prosperity and glamour faces an uncertain future as the fourth year of severe shortages prompts Gov. Jerry Brown to mandate a 25 percent reduction in non-agricultural water use.

By ADAM NAGOURNEY, JACK HEALY and NELSON D. SCHWARTZ APRIL 4, 2015

LOS ANGELES — For more than a century, California has been the state where people flocked for a better life — 164,000 square miles of mountains, farmland and coastline, shimmering with ambition and dreams, money and beauty. It was the cutting-edge symbol of possibility: Hollywood, Silicon Valley, aerospace, agriculture and vineyards.

But now a punishing drought — and the unprecedented measures the state announced last week to compel people to reduce water consumption — is forcing a reconsideration of whether the aspiration of untrammeled growth that has for so long been this state’s driving engine has run against the limits of nature.

The 25 percent cut in water consumption ordered by Gov. Jerry Brown raises fundamental questions about what life in California will be like in the years ahead, and even whether this state faces the prospect of people leaving for wetter climates — assuming, as Mr. Brown and other state leaders do, that this marks a permanent change in the climate, rather than a particularly severe cyclical drought. …

To find out what is to blame for this state of affairs, I hit CTRL-F and looked up how often various words are used in this article:

Lawns – 9 usages

Development / Developers – 7

Golf – 3

Turf – 2

Showers – 2

Gardens – 1

Swimming pool – 1

Burbling fountains – 1

Immigration / Immigrants – 0

Of course, in reality, agriculture uses up 80% of the water in California, including wasting it on absurd monsoon crops like rice. So maybe the 80/20 rule suggests agriculture should be where the bulk of cutbacks should come from. But hiring unskilled illegal aliens to do stoop laborer has traditionally been a major engine of California’s demographic transformation, so Californians must take shorter and fewer showers to ensure that landowners can still haul in enough middle school dropouts from south of the border to ensure that California’s NAEP test scores stay low in future generations.

From the NYT

But never mind all that, the real villains remain Ozzie with his lawn and Harriet with her garden. Of course, non-Hispanic whites in California are down from 15.9 million in 1980 to 15.1 million and 39.0% of the population in 2013, but the liability of white golfers is where attention should be focused. Nonwhites tripled from 7.8 million in 1980 to 23.7 million today, but they are Good so their growth can’t have anything to do with the water shortage. Don’t you understand Science?

 
• Tags: California, Immigration, NAEP 
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  1. So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?

    I don’t like what the Reconquista is doing to our country, but this is a little disingenuous.

    • Replies: @e
    SFG said,

    So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?


    You don't live in California, do you? If you did, you'd surely know that most of those who have flowed or are flowing over our southern border don't work in the fields or in agriculture at all. A good many don't work at all...ever... and they have a lot of babies.

    , @Brutusale
    Maybe Steve's being to oblique, but the subtext here is replacing the millions of mestizo stoop laborers with equipment that does the same job, freeing the plucky farm workers, as our betters keep telling us, to fulfill their American middle-class destiny.

    Or not.

    Heaven forbid Big Agriculture have to touch the principal and make capital investments.
  2. Well of course they won’t mention immigration, throw a 3-4 million wetbacks back over the border and get rid of rice crops and some our water issues will be solved quite nicely.

    Why because as you state the growers need workers along with the service sector and both political parties. Yeah both. You don’t see the GOP saying squat, that’s tacit endorsement of the status quo, can’t have the CofC and the Silicon Valley billionaires getting upset.

    The good news is, that this party will soon be over and the bill will come due. This is one can the elites and immigrant mongers cannot kick down the road or smooth over with the Jewish owned media spin.

  3. Growing marijuana takes lots of water.

  4. ABN says:

    The annoying thing about liberals is not that they want environmental conservation, high wages, sustainability, etc. It’s that they don’t want those things–or, at least, not as much as they want to win elections. As long as they get clients for the Democratic Party, they’re happy to subvert the very things they claim to care about.

    The tragedy of the West is that the European peoples are destroying their future for such stupid and petty reasons. Nationalism is about saving the Left from itself as much as it is about saving the Right from itself.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Liberals are often ridiculously stupid and hypocritical, but who really drives immigration policy in California? It wasn't until very recently that Democrats became in control of the state, which has historically had a very powerful Republican machine. If the Republicans had wanted, they could've used all types of tools to deter immigration.

    The reason California was flooded with immigrants was due to business interests - agribusiness, the construction industry, real estate developers, etc. Especially business interests in southern California. These are the people who hire illegals because American workers are too "lazy" to work 12 hour days for $10 an hour, while gutting any attempt at immigration enforcement. They are the speculators who made out like bandits in the housing boom. These are the people who tell us that "skill shortage" plagues our software industry and therefore feel the need to file H1b tech visas.

    While the New York Times is full of diversity-worshipping liberals and anti-gentile intellectuals, what excuse does the Wall Street Journal have? They seem to be even more fervently pro-immigration than even the NY Times, which used to (occasionally) criticize immigration. The WSJ has literally called for open borders, which liberals are not completely for.

    You can't have a sane immigration policy until you take on the Chamber of Commerce, Agribusiness, Silicon Valley, and real estate developers. As long as those groups continue to dominate the "right" in America, we will have mass immigration. Even if Republicans win the next 5 presidential elections and have a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, we will have mass immigration. We can defeat the left, but good luck defeating the right.

    Patriotic conservatives (ie most of the Republican base) have to stop praising the wealthy. It creates the mentality that it's okay to push down wages and support fast paced population growth.
  5. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    Ban swimming pools for Hollywood moguls and stars.

    Problem solved.

  6. • Replies: @Curle
    The brawl you reference was the result of a long daiquiri line. Daiquiris contain rum. Rum was traded for slaves. Slavers made slaves stand in long lines to board slave ships just like this casino made patrons stand in long lines to get a daiquiri. It is only logical that this microaggression would trigger long suppressed cultural memories of slave ships. The brawl was a form of speaking truth to power.
  7. “So maybe the 80/20 rules suggests agriculture should be where the bulk of cutbacks should come from.” – cutting agriculture essentially also means cutting immigration.

    “So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?

    I don’t like what the Reconquista is doing to our country, but this is a little disingenuous.” – In a sense, higher wages encourages investment in labor saving capital, new technology, methods of production, etc so that isn’t totally implausible that it could very well lead to less wasted water.

    But the point Sailer is making about the article is that the only acceptable to demonize(and thus free up) source of water is that used by whites.

  8. If California is heading into a multi decade drought agriculture’s share of water will dry up too. In fact, much of the water now being used for agriculture is ‘fossil’ water being pumped from wells and is not really part of the ‘sustainable’ water supply cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco depend on. No amount of ‘use’ shifting is going to bring depleted aquifers back and make them available as substitutes for Hetch Hetchy or Colorado river water.

    California’s farm exports are enormous. Over $21 billion in 2013. Compare that to a total US box office take of $13.5 billion and almonds alone ( $3.5 billion in exports) are a bigger blockbuster than any Hollywood film! Bentley or Lamborghini may not sell a lot of cars in the San Joaquin Valley but Ford sells a lot of F-150 pickups so farm income is important to California and if it is going into terminal decline so is the entire Central Valley of the state.

    Voluntary and mandatory conservation can only go so far and are not really sustainable over a multi-year time frame. If this is truly a long term weather pattern then cities like Fresno and Stockton are doomed and even the coastal megalopolises will have to be scaled down to a sustainable size. Truly a game changer but first will come the fires and on a scale never before seen.

    • Replies: @EriK
    Who is going to scale down first?
  9. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?”

    No, what Steve is clearly and plainly saying is “cut back on water usage by ag in California (such as growing rice)”. Since ag in California uses 80% of the water, that’s were the big wins are. Of course, the downside for Race Replacers is that if you cut back on ag, you risk cutting back on the size of the new crop of illegal immigrants every year. The Horror!

  10. Agriculture represents 2% of the Californian economy, so that they’re able to command so much power as to be allotted 80% of the water is puzzling. And on top of that to impose restrictions on non-farming use instead of farming makes it even more so.

  11. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and his Men"] says:

    And don’t forget the vicious Giant Snakehead Fish from China introduced into southeastern riparian ecosystems by Chinese Legal Immigrants. The Giant Snakehead Fish…a species quite capable of ripping the Family Jewels off if you fall out of your kayak on the bucolic Potomic River.

  12. The rice grown in Northern California is in flood plains, often ones that double as wildlife sanctuaries. I always assumed this was somewhat natural, but I guess it makes sense that this is manipulated in some way. But the valley is a flood zone, that would be its natural state. Alfalfa is the crop that uses the most water in California (double the amount used by rice growers in the state), and it is used mostly to feed cows.
    Marijauna does use a lot of water and has been criticized for it by environmentalists. Seems like a big change is more people growing grapes as well. I’ve seen grapes growing off the side of 80 where I never use to see anything but pasture.

    • Replies: @SanJoaquinSam
    "The rice grown in Northern California is in flood plains, often ones that double as wildlife sanctuaries."

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.

    Ag growers along the West Side of the Valley are in the worst shape. But they're only there to begin with because of state and federal water projects from 60 years ago (that were never completed, they were axed during Jerry Brown's first run as governor). The water table is much too deep along this region and the water is of poor quality.

    I was standing at a taco truck once and noticed a bumper stick on a car along the lines of "Restore Hetch Hetchy NOW!". So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were. He just nodded and grinned stupidly back at me until the Mexican in the taco track called his order. It was the strangest encounter I've really ever had with a stranger, him just silently smiling at me.
  13. There are 15.1 million whites in California, but I’m curious how many are of european descent, because the census definition of whites includes middle easterners. Wikipedia counts 715k arabs, 500k iranians, 100k azeri and 600k armenians, plus large comunities of assyrians and turks. Another source mentions 1.23 million jews. That would add to 3.2-3.5 million whites from the Middle East and 11-12 millions of europeans.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    600k armenians,
     
    I know quite a few Christian Armenians, and they typically assimilate quite well into the Anglo White population. Of course, recently many of them have started to think about being re-assigned to the non-White category (all those affirmative action goodies).

    715k arabs
     
    The Christian ones normally assimilate very easily (cf such Arab Americans as Terrence Malick).Again ,though, the siren call of affirmative action has led to many of them wanting the privileges that come with non-White status.

    Another source mentions 1.23 million jews.
     
    There are 1.23 million Middle Eastern/North African Jews in CA?
    , @BurplesonAFB
    I suspect there are fewer Anglo-Saxon/Germanic protestants in California now than there were in 1913 when the first LA Aqueduct was completed. Possibly not if you include various 1/2s, 1/4s, 1/8ths.

    Certainly there are fewer now than there were at the height of California Aerospace (plausibly 1965?).
  14. Who was that Sierra Club donor that made the club take population/ immigration out of their mission statement?

    Hasn’t Israel done wonders with drip irrigation? Why not get something back from them for once? Instead of course the ‘loyalty’ of our most important ally in the region ( that and a dollar will get you…..).

    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    Who was that Sierra Club donor that made the club take population/ immigration out of their mission statement?
     
    That would be David Gelbaum whose workings with the Sierra Club were reported in the LA Times here.

    But he said Pope long had known where he stood on the contentious issue. "I did tell Carl Pope in 1994 or 1995 that if they ever came out anti-immigration, they would never get a dollar from me."

    Gelbaum said he was a substantial donor at the time but not yet the club's largest benefactor. Immigration arose as an issue in 1994 because Proposition 187, which threatened to deny public education and health care to illegal immigrants, was on the state's ballot.
    , @Glaivester
  15. OT: Richard Florida continues to be debunked, and The Atlantic comments let him know it.”

    The Atlantic, 03/26/15 – Americans Love Big Hot Suburbs

    The new Census population estimates are out today, and only two metros added more than 100,000 people between July 2013 and July 2014. Houston and Dallas—both in Texas…

    And you’ll never guess what state had the most entries in the list of 50 counties with the greatest population gains. I’m kidding, you definitely will guess, because it’s Texas.

    If you pretend that the United States is populated exclusively by twentysomething graduates of national research universities, you’ll develop the sense that everybody is moving to the city centers of New York, Chicago, San Jose, and Boston. In fact, all three of those metro areas have seen more Americans leaving than coming in the last five years. The cities with the highest levels of net domestic migration since 2010 are Houston, Dallas, Austin, Phoenix, Denver, and San Antonio. Once again, we’re talking about Texas. More broadly, we’re talking about sprawly metros with fast-growing suburbs in the Sun Belt…

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger

    Americans Love Big Hot Suburbs [?]
     
    Uh maybe it's Americans hate shitty neighbors and are willing to put up with big hot suburbs to avoid them.
  16. The solution is dead simple–have one market in water for everyone. Farmers pay the same rate for water as homeowners. Of course, this would lead to homeowners paying much less and farmers quite a bit more. California has a nasty habit of treating its shrinking middle class as cash cows to pay for the government’s various schemes. Schemes which frequently benefit the millionaire farmers or billionaire CEOs to the detriment of everyone else.

    Eventually population growth has to end. An exponential process cannot go on forever. Does America’s ruling class have an endgame here? It seems like they demand that exponential population and economic growth continue forever. The endless growth ideology is going to lead to a real collapse.

  17. @ABN
    The annoying thing about liberals is not that they want environmental conservation, high wages, sustainability, etc. It's that they don't want those things--or, at least, not as much as they want to win elections. As long as they get clients for the Democratic Party, they're happy to subvert the very things they claim to care about.

    The tragedy of the West is that the European peoples are destroying their future for such stupid and petty reasons. Nationalism is about saving the Left from itself as much as it is about saving the Right from itself.

    Liberals are often ridiculously stupid and hypocritical, but who really drives immigration policy in California? It wasn’t until very recently that Democrats became in control of the state, which has historically had a very powerful Republican machine. If the Republicans had wanted, they could’ve used all types of tools to deter immigration.

    The reason California was flooded with immigrants was due to business interests – agribusiness, the construction industry, real estate developers, etc. Especially business interests in southern California. These are the people who hire illegals because American workers are too “lazy” to work 12 hour days for $10 an hour, while gutting any attempt at immigration enforcement. They are the speculators who made out like bandits in the housing boom. These are the people who tell us that “skill shortage” plagues our software industry and therefore feel the need to file H1b tech visas.

    While the New York Times is full of diversity-worshipping liberals and anti-gentile intellectuals, what excuse does the Wall Street Journal have? They seem to be even more fervently pro-immigration than even the NY Times, which used to (occasionally) criticize immigration. The WSJ has literally called for open borders, which liberals are not completely for.

    You can’t have a sane immigration policy until you take on the Chamber of Commerce, Agribusiness, Silicon Valley, and real estate developers. As long as those groups continue to dominate the “right” in America, we will have mass immigration. Even if Republicans win the next 5 presidential elections and have a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, we will have mass immigration. We can defeat the left, but good luck defeating the right.

    Patriotic conservatives (ie most of the Republican base) have to stop praising the wealthy. It creates the mentality that it’s okay to push down wages and support fast paced population growth.

    • Replies: @ABN
    Sure, but one expects business lobbies to make self-serving arguments. That's what they do, and they hardly make a secret of it.

    In a healthy society, liberals would object to plutocratic interests. Instead, they're perfectly fine with them as long as the right PC noises are made.

    I resent the cheap labor lobbies' power within the GOP as much as the next right-wing populist, but one expects excesses of capitalism from GOP elites. What's conspicuous is the absence of opposition from the people who have partisan reasons to oppose GOP elites' agenda.

    I can forgive conservatives for failing to make "leftist" arguments that should be made. It's harder to forgive leftists for that deriliction.

    , @Daniel H
    Agree with all you say. That is why I damn Pete Wilson. Few people realize how instrumental Pete Wilson was in trashing the intents and execution of the Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty of 1986. Back in 1986 it looked like we were going to get a grip on mass illegal immigration with no compensatory boost in legal immigration. At the 11th hour Wilson, at the behest of California farmers, inserted language into the law that not only gutted the reasonable qualifications for amnesty but also paved the way for more and endless illegal immigration that morphed into endless natural disaster amnesties, chain migration and put wind in the sails of the likes of Kennedy and Schumer to demand more legal immigration and temporary(ha, permanent) work visas.

    Wilson's actions left the 1986 amnesty so unenforceable that I would not be surprised if there is still litigation going on by migrants claiming cover under the 1986 act. I know that well into the 2000s there was still litigation going on.
    , @cynthia curran
    I agree, Orange and Kern County have a higher percentage of Illegal immigrants than San Fran and Santa Clara for the reasons you just mention. In fact people here can promote Airbab over Hotels since it individuals renting their houses or condos to vacationers. Granted, some illegals may be use to do house work but Hotels and Motels are going to hire them more than people renting through Airbab.
  18. “Eventually population growth has to end.”

    But I’ve heard you can always get rich in California real estate? To infinity and beyond!

  19. One thing not thought of by either the left or the right is Mexico or Poland which goes to England a lot develops there own manufacturing based instead of getting foreign companies to come over. The Wall Street Journal had an article on Audi in Mexico because the Germans not only get cheap labor but don’t pay the tariffs like they would if its manufactured in the US South. I noticed that all third world countries and the Us South have foreign companies come over which means in the case of Mexico that a manufacturer can locate then to Vietnam or someplace else. Mexico needs to changed its rules to create more local manufacturers. Right now they are finally doing something smart to make them more competitive in manufacturing which is to lower their electric bills by having more natural gas replaced oil by pipes from Texas. They plan on eventually doing their own natural gas which is another smart move. Both the left and the right could stop the Mexicans if they pushed them to sell their own oil company which is partially happening. Trade deals with other countries which is happening. Manufacturer more their own goods which is not.

  20. @Robin Masters
    The rice grown in Northern California is in flood plains, often ones that double as wildlife sanctuaries. I always assumed this was somewhat natural, but I guess it makes sense that this is manipulated in some way. But the valley is a flood zone, that would be its natural state. Alfalfa is the crop that uses the most water in California (double the amount used by rice growers in the state), and it is used mostly to feed cows.
    Marijauna does use a lot of water and has been criticized for it by environmentalists. Seems like a big change is more people growing grapes as well. I've seen grapes growing off the side of 80 where I never use to see anything but pasture.

    “The rice grown in Northern California is in flood plains, often ones that double as wildlife sanctuaries.”

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.

    Ag growers along the West Side of the Valley are in the worst shape. But they’re only there to begin with because of state and federal water projects from 60 years ago (that were never completed, they were axed during Jerry Brown’s first run as governor). The water table is much too deep along this region and the water is of poor quality.

    I was standing at a taco truck once and noticed a bumper stick on a car along the lines of “Restore Hetch Hetchy NOW!”. So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were. He just nodded and grinned stupidly back at me until the Mexican in the taco track called his order. It was the strangest encounter I’ve really ever had with a stranger, him just silently smiling at me.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.
     
    I doubt you know of much rice grown along the American River, since that river is in the mountains until it hits the Sacramento suburbs.

    The Sacramento River that runs along the northern half of California's Central Valley has the rice farms. So does the Feather River to a lesser extent.


    So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were.
     
    I'd give him back Hetch Hetchy if they give us the Auburn Dam.
    , @notbob
    If he's like me, he's in favor of restoring Hetch Hetchy, because that would cut off the water to San Francisco.

    For those not around here, the Hetch Hetchy reservoir is the primary municipal water source for San Francisco. It was a valley similar in grandeur to Yosemite. You can generally count on the local hippy/granola types to have a "Restore Hetch Hetchy" bumper sticker on their VW Van.

    Restoring it would cut of SF's water. Watching that city choke to death as a result of liberal "feel good" thinking would be entertaining.

    But it's not polite to say that out loud in this area.
  21. NAWAPA.

    • Replies: @Lugash
    Not All Wops Are Pro Axis?
  22. @gcochran
    NAWAPA.

    Not All Wops Are Pro Axis?

  23. @SanJoaquinSam
    "The rice grown in Northern California is in flood plains, often ones that double as wildlife sanctuaries."

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.

    Ag growers along the West Side of the Valley are in the worst shape. But they're only there to begin with because of state and federal water projects from 60 years ago (that were never completed, they were axed during Jerry Brown's first run as governor). The water table is much too deep along this region and the water is of poor quality.

    I was standing at a taco truck once and noticed a bumper stick on a car along the lines of "Restore Hetch Hetchy NOW!". So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were. He just nodded and grinned stupidly back at me until the Mexican in the taco track called his order. It was the strangest encounter I've really ever had with a stranger, him just silently smiling at me.

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.

    I doubt you know of much rice grown along the American River, since that river is in the mountains until it hits the Sacramento suburbs.

    The Sacramento River that runs along the northern half of California’s Central Valley has the rice farms. So does the Feather River to a lesser extent.

    So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were.

    I’d give him back Hetch Hetchy if they give us the Auburn Dam.

    • Replies: @SanJoaquinSam
    You're right, the Sacramento River. And thanks for the snark.
  24. CA drought is scary and real – and so may be the CO2 greenhouse effect of Industrial Revolution post 1750. The degree of intersection not fully understood. CA also faces water allocation difficulties, lack of groundwater regulation, predatory Stewart Resnick and almond farmers, et al. Hard to fix and not being fixed in Sacto or DC.

    http://spectator.org/articles/62146/rain-dances-california

  25. I know several rice farmers in the Sacramento valley that switched to farming nut trees several years ago. Due to tiered hierarchical water rights, they understood access to water will be limited in the coming years.

  26. People have noted that 80% of the water goes to Agriculture yet they demand cuts away from agriculture.

    I guess that just shows us that agriculture is a really powerful interest.

    How much money does agriculture soak up? California subsidizes their water. The federal government subsidizes their crops.

    Federal agriculture subsidy cuts seem like a good idea to this city-boy. Dunno why we need quite so much corn and soya anyway. Could spend that money on anything. I dunno, bridges? Trains? Obamacare?

    • Replies: @Nathan Wartooth
    Because you don't ever want to see a food riot.

    The government makes sure there are way more crops being grown that we could possibly eat. That's why they subsidize it so heavily. Food is important.
    , @map
    What you are not understanding is that US economy is built for war. While much of US industry has been outsourced, what has not is food, medicine and weapons. The ability to sustainably fight a war is why these fundamental industries have not been shrunk to a more reasonable size.
  27. I have a hand in ag, so I’m biased, but I think the Steve-o-sphere is overly antagonistic towards Ag.
    Think of Ag as something like a standing army.
    The reason you need a standing army is so that there is some skill/knowledge repository in case you suddenly need to scale up operations (see: Sept 10th, 2001).
    Ag is a glacially slow process. For many crops, a year “in the field” (ha ha) is only ONE iteration. In, say, web design you could have dozens of iteration in a year, so you “learn your craft” orders of magnitude faster.
    If America wants to produce food (and we do), keeping farms around, EVEN AT A LOSS, is a net advantage. After all, a huge pacific fleet in 1940 was inarguably a waste of money.
    Food gives us strategic depth (dare I say…freedom?), and it’s time-intensive to learn as a vocation, so certain “understandings” simply have to be conceded.

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    "EVEN AT A LOSS" - we should take care that the loss isn't our children's birthright.
    , @San Fernando Curt
    Strategic advantage of enriching agri-business is outweighed by filling the nation with hostile foreigners who'd never and couldn't build anything like a Pacific Fleet. Besides, there's more to life than planning for the next war or tossing around "freedom" as catchphrase.
  28. But hiring unskilled illegal aliens to do stoop laborer has traditionally been a major engine of California’s demographic transformation

    Try to imagine what California would have been like if it had a successful temporary work program, that was very stringent in returning the help south after growing season, and a fortified border. My guess would be that Asians (including Indian sub-con Asians) would have a more dominant role.

    • Replies: @Kyle a
    They did. Migrant farm workers returned to Mexico after the harvest for the most part. Then those brilkiant ag business men started putting them up in shacks and trailers out I. The fields and the rest is history as they say
  29. e says:
    @SFG
    So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?

    I don't like what the Reconquista is doing to our country, but this is a little disingenuous.

    SFG said,

    So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?

    You don’t live in California, do you? If you did, you’d surely know that most of those who have flowed or are flowing over our southern border don’t work in the fields or in agriculture at all. A good many don’t work at all…ever… and they have a lot of babies.

  30. It’s not that easy to figure out how much less, if at all, farms pay for water. The water farms get is not fit to drink, it’s not available instantly at the turn of a faucet, and of course it’s bought “in bulk” with farmers responsible for a lot of the last mile or so of infrastructure. I’m not saying I think city dwellers should subsidize farmers, I’m just saying it’s not clear they are.

  31. @JohnnyWalker123
    Liberals are often ridiculously stupid and hypocritical, but who really drives immigration policy in California? It wasn't until very recently that Democrats became in control of the state, which has historically had a very powerful Republican machine. If the Republicans had wanted, they could've used all types of tools to deter immigration.

    The reason California was flooded with immigrants was due to business interests - agribusiness, the construction industry, real estate developers, etc. Especially business interests in southern California. These are the people who hire illegals because American workers are too "lazy" to work 12 hour days for $10 an hour, while gutting any attempt at immigration enforcement. They are the speculators who made out like bandits in the housing boom. These are the people who tell us that "skill shortage" plagues our software industry and therefore feel the need to file H1b tech visas.

    While the New York Times is full of diversity-worshipping liberals and anti-gentile intellectuals, what excuse does the Wall Street Journal have? They seem to be even more fervently pro-immigration than even the NY Times, which used to (occasionally) criticize immigration. The WSJ has literally called for open borders, which liberals are not completely for.

    You can't have a sane immigration policy until you take on the Chamber of Commerce, Agribusiness, Silicon Valley, and real estate developers. As long as those groups continue to dominate the "right" in America, we will have mass immigration. Even if Republicans win the next 5 presidential elections and have a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, we will have mass immigration. We can defeat the left, but good luck defeating the right.

    Patriotic conservatives (ie most of the Republican base) have to stop praising the wealthy. It creates the mentality that it's okay to push down wages and support fast paced population growth.

    Sure, but one expects business lobbies to make self-serving arguments. That’s what they do, and they hardly make a secret of it.

    In a healthy society, liberals would object to plutocratic interests. Instead, they’re perfectly fine with them as long as the right PC noises are made.

    I resent the cheap labor lobbies’ power within the GOP as much as the next right-wing populist, but one expects excesses of capitalism from GOP elites. What’s conspicuous is the absence of opposition from the people who have partisan reasons to oppose GOP elites’ agenda.

    I can forgive conservatives for failing to make “leftist” arguments that should be made. It’s harder to forgive leftists for that deriliction.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Back in the 1950s, Republican Eisenhower rejected this line of thinking from the agribusiness lobby and ordered mass scale deportations. JFK and LBJ further limited Mexican migration by ending the Bracero program. There was a time when both the left and the right were firmly in favor of restriction and wanted to protect American workers.

    If this seems strange, look at Germany. German Unions and German conservatives have worked together to protect German workers from non-EU worker migration. Recently, a German politician floated the idea to have a Canada-style points system to bring in outside non-EU labor migrants. This proposal was rejected by both German liberals and conservatives. Interestingly, both German conservatives and liberals are open towards European migration. It's non-European migration that threatens both sides.

    Japanese corporate interests exercise massive influence over the Japanese govt and there's not much of a labor left, but their desire to bring guest workers is frequently thwarted by conservatives who want to preserve Japan's homogeneity.

    We need conservatives like Boone Pickens, Bob Perry (now deceased), Adelson, and the Koch brothers to put aside their financial interests to advocate for immigration restriction. In a functioning country, such men would not be advocating guest worker programs or amnesty. In a functioning country, Tancredo and Jeff Sessions would be receiving millions in donations from these men. Do you think Israeli billionaires want H1bs imported to Tel Aviv?

    An additional issue to consider is the strong role of unions in restricting immigration. If we had a meaningful union movement in America, there never would've been an H1b visa and illegal immigration would've been deterred. By waging war on unions, our conservatives undercut a natural barrier to immigration.

    Another barrier to immigration is what the right would call "big government." Typically, you need citizenship to apply for govt employment. By downsizing govt and shifting its work to third party private contractors, we permit our tax dollars to flow into the hands of immigrant workers. If more work was done in house by govt employees, that'd be more difficult.

    Honestly, what's the point of voting for Republicans anyway? Because they'll stand with Israel? They'll cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires? They'll get rid of environmental, labor, and financial regulation? They'll fight a war with Iran? They'll legalize gay marriage slightly more slowly?

    How in any meaningful way was W. better than Obama?
    , @notsaying
    There is a certain realism in your thinking that the "business lobbies" and "plutocrat" conservatives only care about themselves and will pursue their own self-interest without caring about the implications. That is what they have been doing for years -- and often with not nearly enough pushback from the rest of us.

    However, I can't agree that means that protecting the interests of the American people therefore has to shift over to the liberals.

    We have a couple big problems.

    One of them that both parties are letting us down as they represent the elites. Another is that we don't demand to be #1 in our own country. A third one is we are too forgiving and all too willing to forget betrayals. Instead we would rather focus on the sins of the people with disagree with -- often over issues of no real lasting signifcance. We keep getting distracted, getting fooled and coming back for more -- and then we wonder why things are getting worse.
  32. Now why would the Slim owned NYT mention that immigration is a contributing factor to CA’s water problems?

  33. @JohnnyWalker123
    Liberals are often ridiculously stupid and hypocritical, but who really drives immigration policy in California? It wasn't until very recently that Democrats became in control of the state, which has historically had a very powerful Republican machine. If the Republicans had wanted, they could've used all types of tools to deter immigration.

    The reason California was flooded with immigrants was due to business interests - agribusiness, the construction industry, real estate developers, etc. Especially business interests in southern California. These are the people who hire illegals because American workers are too "lazy" to work 12 hour days for $10 an hour, while gutting any attempt at immigration enforcement. They are the speculators who made out like bandits in the housing boom. These are the people who tell us that "skill shortage" plagues our software industry and therefore feel the need to file H1b tech visas.

    While the New York Times is full of diversity-worshipping liberals and anti-gentile intellectuals, what excuse does the Wall Street Journal have? They seem to be even more fervently pro-immigration than even the NY Times, which used to (occasionally) criticize immigration. The WSJ has literally called for open borders, which liberals are not completely for.

    You can't have a sane immigration policy until you take on the Chamber of Commerce, Agribusiness, Silicon Valley, and real estate developers. As long as those groups continue to dominate the "right" in America, we will have mass immigration. Even if Republicans win the next 5 presidential elections and have a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, we will have mass immigration. We can defeat the left, but good luck defeating the right.

    Patriotic conservatives (ie most of the Republican base) have to stop praising the wealthy. It creates the mentality that it's okay to push down wages and support fast paced population growth.

    Agree with all you say. That is why I damn Pete Wilson. Few people realize how instrumental Pete Wilson was in trashing the intents and execution of the Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty of 1986. Back in 1986 it looked like we were going to get a grip on mass illegal immigration with no compensatory boost in legal immigration. At the 11th hour Wilson, at the behest of California farmers, inserted language into the law that not only gutted the reasonable qualifications for amnesty but also paved the way for more and endless illegal immigration that morphed into endless natural disaster amnesties, chain migration and put wind in the sails of the likes of Kennedy and Schumer to demand more legal immigration and temporary(ha, permanent) work visas.

    Wilson’s actions left the 1986 amnesty so unenforceable that I would not be surprised if there is still litigation going on by migrants claiming cover under the 1986 act. I know that well into the 2000s there was still litigation going on.

    • Replies: @cynthia curran
    Good point, People think of him as a hero because of prop 187 but Prop 187 didn't deal with the real reason why they were a lot of illegal immigrants, the job market. It just limited their welfare and was going to kick their kids out of school but didn't prevent them from getting a job. There were a few Id reforms on Prop 187 but not enough to deal with the hiring problem. Also, having a driver's license or not does not prevent them from employment. In Fair a more honest study shows Ca has 9.4 percent of the workforce illegal while Texas which does more like deportation and denies them drivers license has 8.9 percent which is not that much different. Fine the hell at the companies along time ago would have solved the problem more. The highest state as a percentage of illegal immigrants is Nevada in the workplace at 10.2
  34. It would be cool to get some climate scientists, ecologists, and agriculture scientists together to study what would seemingly be an important question: How many people can the territorial USA sustain in a long-term scenario? In the absence of cheap fossil fuels and historical water reserves? At our current lifestyle versus a 1915 lifestyle? etc etc

    Reading the NYTimes this morning, I thought three pieces might be discussed on this blog. This one on California’s drought. An item titled “Transgender Inmate’s Hormone Treatment Lawsuit Gets Justice Dept. Backing.” And another, “Candidate for Chicago Mayor Struggled to Unite Latinos and Blacks.” The last is pretty wonderful. South Side blacks hate Rahm for closing their schools, but don’t want to elect a Mexican since Hispanics are increasingly perceived as driving blacks out of the labor force–a fact which the writer found a Northwestern professor to dispute, but which is abundantly clear to anyone who spends any time in Chicago restaurants and businesses.

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Who cares what White Liberal Academic Scientists think...you are either for being a racial minority in post- White Dystopian US or you aren't. I'm not interested in a scientific wonk debate about post-White US carrying capacity.

    I saw the TV series River Monsters last week...apparently Chinese Organized Crime is dumping Asian Snakehead Fish into the Riparian Ecosystems of The Southeast and Northeast so they can fish for the Asian Snakehead Fish and sell them to the very rapidly US Asian consumers of Asian Snakehead Fish. The Northeast and Southeast Riparian Ecosystems are now being used as a Giant China Town Restaurant Fish Tank to serve the rapidly growing US Asian population.
    , @Anonymous
    Ag scientists tend to be optimistic, cornucopian, positive, Midwestern, technological, and technical and engineering oriented. In other words, the exact opposite of ecologists and climate scientists.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    It would be cool to get some climate scientists, ecologists, and agriculture scientists together to study what would seemingly be an important question: How many people can the territorial USA sustain in a long-term scenario?

    I don't think you're going to get an honest answer out of any climate scientists, since they're already in the pocket of the Powers that Be. I read somewhere--maybe here, years ago--about a guy who attended a global warming jeremiad by Al Gore, and as Gore was walking out asked him, "What do you think the ideal population of the US would be, Mr. Gore?" Gore halted momentarily, then kept moving until the guy asked, "400 million? 500 million? A billion?" Gore, knowing what the point of all this was, turned and snarled, "Diversity is our greatest strength!"

  35. @Pseudonymic Handle
    There are 15.1 million whites in California, but I'm curious how many are of european descent, because the census definition of whites includes middle easterners. Wikipedia counts 715k arabs, 500k iranians, 100k azeri and 600k armenians, plus large comunities of assyrians and turks. Another source mentions 1.23 million jews. That would add to 3.2-3.5 million whites from the Middle East and 11-12 millions of europeans.

    600k armenians,

    I know quite a few Christian Armenians, and they typically assimilate quite well into the Anglo White population. Of course, recently many of them have started to think about being re-assigned to the non-White category (all those affirmative action goodies).

    715k arabs

    The Christian ones normally assimilate very easily (cf such Arab Americans as Terrence Malick).Again ,though, the siren call of affirmative action has led to many of them wanting the privileges that come with non-White status.

    Another source mentions 1.23 million jews.

    There are 1.23 million Middle Eastern/North African Jews in CA?

    • Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle
    Because Israel is a Middle Eastern country I'm thinking of jews as middle easterners. The sephardim are middle easterners genetically as well while the ashkenazim are a mix of middle eastern and european (italian to be more exact)
    , @anon
    the old Beverly Hills Christian Science church is now a Persian synagogue.
  36. None of you were attacking agriculture back when it was clean white Middle American types doing agriculture in flyover country. It’s just funny the way things go from good to bad depending on who’s doing them. Who? Whom? indeed.

    I actually think immigration should be decreased considerably, particularly of illiterate Mexicans, but this isn’t an immigration story, this is a climate change story. But we’re conservative, so we don’t believe in that, right…?

    The Mexicans do lots of awful things to communities they invade–crime, welfare, etc. But they’re not responsible for the drought.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    None of you were attacking agriculture back when it was clean white Middle American types doing agriculture in flyover country. It’s just funny the way things go from good to bad depending on who’s doing them. Who? Whom? indeed.
     
    That made no sense at all.
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    Drop the "none of you". I for one have written and discussed the problems of big ag my whole thinking life. I thought is was bullshit when my senator was getting hundreds of thousands in ag subsidies not to grow cotton while his field hands were getting 7 bucks a day. When big ag started patenting seeds I ranted against it. Probably quite a few of us have never approved of tax breaking that building "Christmas tree" corporate farms. There's a lot of jacked up things that have been going on in farming for half a century, and the critique has not all come from libs.

    If you haven't noticed by now that people on Sailer actually come from quite diverse political orientations and that some rather heterodox thinking goes on, you've followed the discussion pretty badly.

  37. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and his Men"] says:
    @Uptown Resident
    It would be cool to get some climate scientists, ecologists, and agriculture scientists together to study what would seemingly be an important question: How many people can the territorial USA sustain in a long-term scenario? In the absence of cheap fossil fuels and historical water reserves? At our current lifestyle versus a 1915 lifestyle? etc etc

    Reading the NYTimes this morning, I thought three pieces might be discussed on this blog. This one on California's drought. An item titled "Transgender Inmate's Hormone Treatment Lawsuit Gets Justice Dept. Backing." And another, "Candidate for Chicago Mayor Struggled to Unite Latinos and Blacks." The last is pretty wonderful. South Side blacks hate Rahm for closing their schools, but don't want to elect a Mexican since Hispanics are increasingly perceived as driving blacks out of the labor force--a fact which the writer found a Northwestern professor to dispute, but which is abundantly clear to anyone who spends any time in Chicago restaurants and businesses.

    Who cares what White Liberal Academic Scientists think…you are either for being a racial minority in post- White Dystopian US or you aren’t. I’m not interested in a scientific wonk debate about post-White US carrying capacity.

    I saw the TV series River Monsters last week…apparently Chinese Organized Crime is dumping Asian Snakehead Fish into the Riparian Ecosystems of The Southeast and Northeast so they can fish for the Asian Snakehead Fish and sell them to the very rapidly US Asian consumers of Asian Snakehead Fish. The Northeast and Southeast Riparian Ecosystems are now being used as a Giant China Town Restaurant Fish Tank to serve the rapidly growing US Asian population.

  38. @Blobby5
    Who was that Sierra Club donor that made the club take population/ immigration out of their mission statement?

    Hasn't Israel done wonders with drip irrigation? Why not get something back from them for once? Instead of course the 'loyalty' of our most important ally in the region ( that and a dollar will get you.....).

    Who was that Sierra Club donor that made the club take population/ immigration out of their mission statement?

    That would be David Gelbaum whose workings with the Sierra Club were reported in the LA Times here.

    But he said Pope long had known where he stood on the contentious issue. “I did tell Carl Pope in 1994 or 1995 that if they ever came out anti-immigration, they would never get a dollar from me.”

    Gelbaum said he was a substantial donor at the time but not yet the club’s largest benefactor. Immigration arose as an issue in 1994 because Proposition 187, which threatened to deny public education and health care to illegal immigrants, was on the state’s ballot.

  39. @Pincher Martin

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.
     
    I doubt you know of much rice grown along the American River, since that river is in the mountains until it hits the Sacramento suburbs.

    The Sacramento River that runs along the northern half of California's Central Valley has the rice farms. So does the Feather River to a lesser extent.


    So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were.
     
    I'd give him back Hetch Hetchy if they give us the Auburn Dam.

    You’re right, the Sacramento River. And thanks for the snark.

  40. So what you’re saying is that the agricultural lobby’s real aim is demographic transformation? C’mon Mr Sailer. Nobody confronts the agricultural lobby in California for the same reasons everywhere else, nationally or internationally, From Japan to France and Brazil to India. Farmers all want to be coddled and noobe has the balls to stand up to them.

  41. Journalists at the New York Times mistakenly believe that all the world’s problems are caused by Ozzie and Harriet Nelson.

    But this is not true. Some of them are caused by Ward and June Cleaver.

    • Replies: @Dirk Dagger
    Agreed, but lets's not discount the Eddie Haskell problem either.
  42. @Hipster
    People have noted that 80% of the water goes to Agriculture yet they demand cuts away from agriculture.

    I guess that just shows us that agriculture is a really powerful interest.

    How much money does agriculture soak up? California subsidizes their water. The federal government subsidizes their crops.

    Federal agriculture subsidy cuts seem like a good idea to this city-boy. Dunno why we need quite so much corn and soya anyway. Could spend that money on anything. I dunno, bridges? Trains? Obamacare?

    Because you don’t ever want to see a food riot.

    The government makes sure there are way more crops being grown that we could possibly eat. That’s why they subsidize it so heavily. Food is important.

  43. @Blobby5
    Who was that Sierra Club donor that made the club take population/ immigration out of their mission statement?

    Hasn't Israel done wonders with drip irrigation? Why not get something back from them for once? Instead of course the 'loyalty' of our most important ally in the region ( that and a dollar will get you.....).
  44. @E. Rekshun
    OT: Richard Florida continues to be debunked, and The Atlantic comments let him know it.''

    The Atlantic, 03/26/15 - Americans Love Big Hot Suburbs

    The new Census population estimates are out today, and only two metros added more than 100,000 people between July 2013 and July 2014. Houston and Dallas—both in Texas...

    And you'll never guess what state had the most entries in the list of 50 counties with the greatest population gains. I'm kidding, you definitely will guess, because it's Texas.

    If you pretend that the United States is populated exclusively by twentysomething graduates of national research universities, you'll develop the sense that everybody is moving to the city centers of New York, Chicago, San Jose, and Boston. In fact, all three of those metro areas have seen more Americans leaving than coming in the last five years. The cities with the highest levels of net domestic migration since 2010 are Houston, Dallas, Austin, Phoenix, Denver, and San Antonio. Once again, we're talking about Texas. More broadly, we're talking about sprawly metros with fast-growing suburbs in the Sun Belt...

    Americans Love Big Hot Suburbs [?]

    Uh maybe it’s Americans hate shitty neighbors and are willing to put up with big hot suburbs to avoid them.

  45. @syonredux

    600k armenians,
     
    I know quite a few Christian Armenians, and they typically assimilate quite well into the Anglo White population. Of course, recently many of them have started to think about being re-assigned to the non-White category (all those affirmative action goodies).

    715k arabs
     
    The Christian ones normally assimilate very easily (cf such Arab Americans as Terrence Malick).Again ,though, the siren call of affirmative action has led to many of them wanting the privileges that come with non-White status.

    Another source mentions 1.23 million jews.
     
    There are 1.23 million Middle Eastern/North African Jews in CA?

    Because Israel is a Middle Eastern country I’m thinking of jews as middle easterners. The sephardim are middle easterners genetically as well while the ashkenazim are a mix of middle eastern and european (italian to be more exact)

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Because Israel is a Middle Eastern country I’m thinking of jews as middle easterners.
     
    Ancient Israel, yeah.

    The sephardim are middle easterners genetically
     
    I've never actually read any gene studies on Sephardic Jews

    as well while the ashkenazim are a mix of middle eastern and european (italian to be more exact)
     

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%. ( In our book, we had a crude estimate of about 40% European ancestry.) They estimated the split between Europeans and Middle Easterners at about 9000 BC: which sounds about the right date for the entry of the Sardinian-like farmers. From other data (mtDNA) , and from the fact that you see almost zero WHG or ANE in Ashkenazi autosomal genes, one can conclude that the European admixture was mostly Italian, with some southern French. Very little German or Slavic – by that time serious endogamy had set in..
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/


    Which shows that counting them as a Middle Eastern population is absurd
  46. “Not All Wops Are Pro Axis?”

    No. Google “North American Water and Power Alliance”

    A very interesting idea to read about, but hugely expensive and that’s even assuming the Canadians would play ball.

  47. @Jeff W.
    Journalists at the New York Times mistakenly believe that all the world's problems are caused by Ozzie and Harriet Nelson.

    But this is not true. Some of them are caused by Ward and June Cleaver.

    Agreed, but lets’s not discount the Eddie Haskell problem either.

  48. @oo-e-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang
    I have a hand in ag, so I'm biased, but I think the Steve-o-sphere is overly antagonistic towards Ag.
    Think of Ag as something like a standing army.
    The reason you need a standing army is so that there is some skill/knowledge repository in case you suddenly need to scale up operations (see: Sept 10th, 2001).
    Ag is a glacially slow process. For many crops, a year "in the field" (ha ha) is only ONE iteration. In, say, web design you could have dozens of iteration in a year, so you "learn your craft" orders of magnitude faster.
    If America wants to produce food (and we do), keeping farms around, EVEN AT A LOSS, is a net advantage. After all, a huge pacific fleet in 1940 was inarguably a waste of money.
    Food gives us strategic depth (dare I say...freedom?), and it's time-intensive to learn as a vocation, so certain "understandings" simply have to be conceded.

    “EVEN AT A LOSS” – we should take care that the loss isn’t our children’s birthright.

  49. @unit472
    If California is heading into a multi decade drought agriculture's share of water will dry up too. In fact, much of the water now being used for agriculture is 'fossil' water being pumped from wells and is not really part of the 'sustainable' water supply cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco depend on. No amount of 'use' shifting is going to bring depleted aquifers back and make them available as substitutes for Hetch Hetchy or Colorado river water.

    California's farm exports are enormous. Over $21 billion in 2013. Compare that to a total US box office take of $13.5 billion and almonds alone ( $3.5 billion in exports) are a bigger blockbuster than any Hollywood film! Bentley or Lamborghini may not sell a lot of cars in the San Joaquin Valley but Ford sells a lot of F-150 pickups so farm income is important to California and if it is going into terminal decline so is the entire Central Valley of the state.

    Voluntary and mandatory conservation can only go so far and are not really sustainable over a multi-year time frame. If this is truly a long term weather pattern then cities like Fresno and Stockton are doomed and even the coastal megalopolises will have to be scaled down to a sustainable size. Truly a game changer but first will come the fires and on a scale never before seen.

    Who is going to scale down first?

  50. @Pseudonymic Handle
    Because Israel is a Middle Eastern country I'm thinking of jews as middle easterners. The sephardim are middle easterners genetically as well while the ashkenazim are a mix of middle eastern and european (italian to be more exact)

    Because Israel is a Middle Eastern country I’m thinking of jews as middle easterners.

    Ancient Israel, yeah.

    The sephardim are middle easterners genetically

    I’ve never actually read any gene studies on Sephardic Jews

    as well while the ashkenazim are a mix of middle eastern and european (italian to be more exact)

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%. ( In our book, we had a crude estimate of about 40% European ancestry.) They estimated the split between Europeans and Middle Easterners at about 9000 BC: which sounds about the right date for the entry of the Sardinian-like farmers. From other data (mtDNA) , and from the fact that you see almost zero WHG or ANE in Ashkenazi autosomal genes, one can conclude that the European admixture was mostly Italian, with some southern French. Very little German or Slavic – by that time serious endogamy had set in..

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/

    Which shows that counting them as a Middle Eastern population is absurd

  51. @ABN
    Sure, but one expects business lobbies to make self-serving arguments. That's what they do, and they hardly make a secret of it.

    In a healthy society, liberals would object to plutocratic interests. Instead, they're perfectly fine with them as long as the right PC noises are made.

    I resent the cheap labor lobbies' power within the GOP as much as the next right-wing populist, but one expects excesses of capitalism from GOP elites. What's conspicuous is the absence of opposition from the people who have partisan reasons to oppose GOP elites' agenda.

    I can forgive conservatives for failing to make "leftist" arguments that should be made. It's harder to forgive leftists for that deriliction.

    Back in the 1950s, Republican Eisenhower rejected this line of thinking from the agribusiness lobby and ordered mass scale deportations. JFK and LBJ further limited Mexican migration by ending the Bracero program. There was a time when both the left and the right were firmly in favor of restriction and wanted to protect American workers.

    If this seems strange, look at Germany. German Unions and German conservatives have worked together to protect German workers from non-EU worker migration. Recently, a German politician floated the idea to have a Canada-style points system to bring in outside non-EU labor migrants. This proposal was rejected by both German liberals and conservatives. Interestingly, both German conservatives and liberals are open towards European migration. It’s non-European migration that threatens both sides.

    Japanese corporate interests exercise massive influence over the Japanese govt and there’s not much of a labor left, but their desire to bring guest workers is frequently thwarted by conservatives who want to preserve Japan’s homogeneity.

    We need conservatives like Boone Pickens, Bob Perry (now deceased), Adelson, and the Koch brothers to put aside their financial interests to advocate for immigration restriction. In a functioning country, such men would not be advocating guest worker programs or amnesty. In a functioning country, Tancredo and Jeff Sessions would be receiving millions in donations from these men. Do you think Israeli billionaires want H1bs imported to Tel Aviv?

    An additional issue to consider is the strong role of unions in restricting immigration. If we had a meaningful union movement in America, there never would’ve been an H1b visa and illegal immigration would’ve been deterred. By waging war on unions, our conservatives undercut a natural barrier to immigration.

    Another barrier to immigration is what the right would call “big government.” Typically, you need citizenship to apply for govt employment. By downsizing govt and shifting its work to third party private contractors, we permit our tax dollars to flow into the hands of immigrant workers. If more work was done in house by govt employees, that’d be more difficult.

    Honestly, what’s the point of voting for Republicans anyway? Because they’ll stand with Israel? They’ll cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires? They’ll get rid of environmental, labor, and financial regulation? They’ll fight a war with Iran? They’ll legalize gay marriage slightly more slowly?

    How in any meaningful way was W. better than Obama?

    • Replies: @cynthia curran
    Good point, Ike was a moderate and not a conservative like Reagan. In fact the John Birch Society that Chuck Baldwin is apart of called Ike a communists. People really against the immigration should not buy into right wing politics because since moderates like Ike Eisenhower did something about the immigration situation while conservatives like Reagan and Bush didn't.
  52. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    None of you were attacking agriculture back when it was clean white Middle American types doing agriculture in flyover country.

    Uhm, there’s no water shortage there. No one’s attacking ag, they are just pointing out that it uses most of the water in California. If California really runs out of water, ag is going to get hit and will likely have to contract. It’s simple physics.

    You trying too hard to really not have a dog in this race, you’re really about playing the Race Card for domestic political consumption?

  53. @Uptown Resident
    It would be cool to get some climate scientists, ecologists, and agriculture scientists together to study what would seemingly be an important question: How many people can the territorial USA sustain in a long-term scenario? In the absence of cheap fossil fuels and historical water reserves? At our current lifestyle versus a 1915 lifestyle? etc etc

    Reading the NYTimes this morning, I thought three pieces might be discussed on this blog. This one on California's drought. An item titled "Transgender Inmate's Hormone Treatment Lawsuit Gets Justice Dept. Backing." And another, "Candidate for Chicago Mayor Struggled to Unite Latinos and Blacks." The last is pretty wonderful. South Side blacks hate Rahm for closing their schools, but don't want to elect a Mexican since Hispanics are increasingly perceived as driving blacks out of the labor force--a fact which the writer found a Northwestern professor to dispute, but which is abundantly clear to anyone who spends any time in Chicago restaurants and businesses.

    Ag scientists tend to be optimistic, cornucopian, positive, Midwestern, technological, and technical and engineering oriented. In other words, the exact opposite of ecologists and climate scientists.

    • Replies: @unit472
    19th and early 20th century Americans were, by and large also optimistic types, willing to do what was necessary to solve problems.. One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it. Water shortages in America were once an engineering challenge. Lake Tahoe, e.g. holds about 50 cubic miles of water, i.e, enough to put the entire city of San Francisco under water to a depth of more than 5000 feet. Alternatively, draining it would provide Hoover Dam scale electric power and water sufficient to keep the Central Valley going for another 50 or so years even in a drought scenario. Yes, it would inconvenience a hundred thousand or so 2nd home owners but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.
  54. @Anonymous
    Ag scientists tend to be optimistic, cornucopian, positive, Midwestern, technological, and technical and engineering oriented. In other words, the exact opposite of ecologists and climate scientists.

    19th and early 20th century Americans were, by and large also optimistic types, willing to do what was necessary to solve problems.. One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it. Water shortages in America were once an engineering challenge. Lake Tahoe, e.g. holds about 50 cubic miles of water, i.e, enough to put the entire city of San Francisco under water to a depth of more than 5000 feet. Alternatively, draining it would provide Hoover Dam scale electric power and water sufficient to keep the Central Valley going for another 50 or so years even in a drought scenario. Yes, it would inconvenience a hundred thousand or so 2nd home owners but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Yes so when the final collapse does come there will be 600 million people at each others throats no 300 million.
    , @Daniel H
    >>>but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    And after it is trained? Ever heard of the Aral sea?

    Send this memo to Matthew Yglesias. Techno-libertarian-aspergis like yourself are really annoying.
    , @iSteveFan

    One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it.
     
    Sometimes that doesn't work out well. See the Aral Sea.
    , @ABN
    So we should drain the jewel of the Sierras to accommodate a water-hungry ag lobby that is happy to displace Americans' grandchildren with the progeny of foreign helots?

    No thanks. To hell with the growers, and to Mexico with the helots.

    Yes, there's an American tradition of ambitious hydro-engineering, but then again, Muir was as American as Mulholland.

  55. Steve, please post a picture of you lawn after a month or two of this.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    All this talk of drought has had me worried sick about Steve's lawn... If Lake Tahoe needs to be drained,then so be it!
  56. @Uptown Resident
    It would be cool to get some climate scientists, ecologists, and agriculture scientists together to study what would seemingly be an important question: How many people can the territorial USA sustain in a long-term scenario? In the absence of cheap fossil fuels and historical water reserves? At our current lifestyle versus a 1915 lifestyle? etc etc

    Reading the NYTimes this morning, I thought three pieces might be discussed on this blog. This one on California's drought. An item titled "Transgender Inmate's Hormone Treatment Lawsuit Gets Justice Dept. Backing." And another, "Candidate for Chicago Mayor Struggled to Unite Latinos and Blacks." The last is pretty wonderful. South Side blacks hate Rahm for closing their schools, but don't want to elect a Mexican since Hispanics are increasingly perceived as driving blacks out of the labor force--a fact which the writer found a Northwestern professor to dispute, but which is abundantly clear to anyone who spends any time in Chicago restaurants and businesses.

    It would be cool to get some climate scientists, ecologists, and agriculture scientists together to study what would seemingly be an important question: How many people can the territorial USA sustain in a long-term scenario?

    I don’t think you’re going to get an honest answer out of any climate scientists, since they’re already in the pocket of the Powers that Be. I read somewhere–maybe here, years ago–about a guy who attended a global warming jeremiad by Al Gore, and as Gore was walking out asked him, “What do you think the ideal population of the US would be, Mr. Gore?” Gore halted momentarily, then kept moving until the guy asked, “400 million? 500 million? A billion?” Gore, knowing what the point of all this was, turned and snarled, “Diversity is our greatest strength!”

  57. No blood for corn!

  58. @ABN
    Sure, but one expects business lobbies to make self-serving arguments. That's what they do, and they hardly make a secret of it.

    In a healthy society, liberals would object to plutocratic interests. Instead, they're perfectly fine with them as long as the right PC noises are made.

    I resent the cheap labor lobbies' power within the GOP as much as the next right-wing populist, but one expects excesses of capitalism from GOP elites. What's conspicuous is the absence of opposition from the people who have partisan reasons to oppose GOP elites' agenda.

    I can forgive conservatives for failing to make "leftist" arguments that should be made. It's harder to forgive leftists for that deriliction.

    There is a certain realism in your thinking that the “business lobbies” and “plutocrat” conservatives only care about themselves and will pursue their own self-interest without caring about the implications. That is what they have been doing for years — and often with not nearly enough pushback from the rest of us.

    However, I can’t agree that means that protecting the interests of the American people therefore has to shift over to the liberals.

    We have a couple big problems.

    One of them that both parties are letting us down as they represent the elites. Another is that we don’t demand to be #1 in our own country. A third one is we are too forgiving and all too willing to forget betrayals. Instead we would rather focus on the sins of the people with disagree with — often over issues of no real lasting signifcance. We keep getting distracted, getting fooled and coming back for more — and then we wonder why things are getting worse.

  59. @SFG
    None of you were attacking agriculture back when it was clean white Middle American types doing agriculture in flyover country. It's just funny the way things go from good to bad depending on who's doing them. Who? Whom? indeed.

    I actually think immigration should be decreased considerably, particularly of illiterate Mexicans, but this isn't an immigration story, this is a climate change story. But we're conservative, so we don't believe in that, right...?

    The Mexicans do lots of awful things to communities they invade--crime, welfare, etc. But they're not responsible for the drought.

    None of you were attacking agriculture back when it was clean white Middle American types doing agriculture in flyover country. It’s just funny the way things go from good to bad depending on who’s doing them. Who? Whom? indeed.

    That made no sense at all.

  60. @syonredux

    600k armenians,
     
    I know quite a few Christian Armenians, and they typically assimilate quite well into the Anglo White population. Of course, recently many of them have started to think about being re-assigned to the non-White category (all those affirmative action goodies).

    715k arabs
     
    The Christian ones normally assimilate very easily (cf such Arab Americans as Terrence Malick).Again ,though, the siren call of affirmative action has led to many of them wanting the privileges that come with non-White status.

    Another source mentions 1.23 million jews.
     
    There are 1.23 million Middle Eastern/North African Jews in CA?

    the old Beverly Hills Christian Science church is now a Persian synagogue.

  61. I doubt that a 25 percent cut in non-agricultural water consumption , even if achieved , is going to have any significant effect on California’s water problems . This is just a band aid over a hemorrhaging wound. Too little too late . This problem developed over decades with the full knowledge that it was inevitable and yet decades ago when a fix might have been painful but possible their was no interest or will to address it . Now the Governor furrows his brow and agrees that this is serious and the people of California have to make serious sacrifices . A a $687.4 million package aimed at helping California get through its water crisis , water conservation and clean drinking-water projects , relief to out-of-work farmers struggling to pay mortgages and grocery bills. Towns and cities that are running out of water would get $15 million in emergency funds. Just throw money at it , but even with catastrophe upon them , not theoretically years away politics trumps reality . Oil and gas fracking not mentioned , no forced halt to irrigation of otherwise unsustainable land in the San Joaquin Valley and the real cause of the problem , THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY GODDAMNED PEOPLE LIVING IN A DESERT . Here’s a plan that will be just as effective :

  62. Headline says it all. No way should 40 million consumers be factored into the equation!

  63. @SanJoaquinSam
    "The rice grown in Northern California is in flood plains, often ones that double as wildlife sanctuaries."

    This is true, the ones I know of are in marsh areas along the Delta and American River. The water is already there.

    Ag growers along the West Side of the Valley are in the worst shape. But they're only there to begin with because of state and federal water projects from 60 years ago (that were never completed, they were axed during Jerry Brown's first run as governor). The water table is much too deep along this region and the water is of poor quality.

    I was standing at a taco truck once and noticed a bumper stick on a car along the lines of "Restore Hetch Hetchy NOW!". So I asked the other dude waiting if that was his car, he affirmed, so I then asked if he knew what that water is used for and what the implications of draining that reservoir actually were. He just nodded and grinned stupidly back at me until the Mexican in the taco track called his order. It was the strangest encounter I've really ever had with a stranger, him just silently smiling at me.

    If he’s like me, he’s in favor of restoring Hetch Hetchy, because that would cut off the water to San Francisco.

    For those not around here, the Hetch Hetchy reservoir is the primary municipal water source for San Francisco. It was a valley similar in grandeur to Yosemite. You can generally count on the local hippy/granola types to have a “Restore Hetch Hetchy” bumper sticker on their VW Van.

    Restoring it would cut of SF’s water. Watching that city choke to death as a result of liberal “feel good” thinking would be entertaining.

    But it’s not polite to say that out loud in this area.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Reagan Administration briefly aired the idea of restoring Hetch Hetchy Valley to its natural status in later 1980s.

    Mrs. Pelosi is not enthusiastic.

    , @Steve Sailer
    The Sierra Club was founded by John Muir to defend Hetch Hetchy Valley over 100 years ago from becoming a reservoir to supply the city of San Francisco with water.

    But taking down the dam is not popular with San Francisco politicians.

  64. Golfers are the easy, obvious target par excellence.
    What with generally being white, male, middle-aged, well-to-do, and right-wing politically, what isn’t there for lefties to hate – and to hate with a vengeance.

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    That appealing splutterer, Ed Miliband was, the other day, spraying around desperate pre-election promises like hippopotamus droppings.
    ‘Vote for me’ he promised ‘and I will build an extra 150,000 houses in five years’. You see, the UK is mired in an acute housing shortage.
    All very well, but precisely because of policies the Labour Party defended to the hilt, 300,000 new house seekers, or immigrants, enter the UK every year.

  66. @notbob
    If he's like me, he's in favor of restoring Hetch Hetchy, because that would cut off the water to San Francisco.

    For those not around here, the Hetch Hetchy reservoir is the primary municipal water source for San Francisco. It was a valley similar in grandeur to Yosemite. You can generally count on the local hippy/granola types to have a "Restore Hetch Hetchy" bumper sticker on their VW Van.

    Restoring it would cut of SF's water. Watching that city choke to death as a result of liberal "feel good" thinking would be entertaining.

    But it's not polite to say that out loud in this area.

    The Reagan Administration briefly aired the idea of restoring Hetch Hetchy Valley to its natural status in later 1980s.

    Mrs. Pelosi is not enthusiastic.

  67. @notbob
    If he's like me, he's in favor of restoring Hetch Hetchy, because that would cut off the water to San Francisco.

    For those not around here, the Hetch Hetchy reservoir is the primary municipal water source for San Francisco. It was a valley similar in grandeur to Yosemite. You can generally count on the local hippy/granola types to have a "Restore Hetch Hetchy" bumper sticker on their VW Van.

    Restoring it would cut of SF's water. Watching that city choke to death as a result of liberal "feel good" thinking would be entertaining.

    But it's not polite to say that out loud in this area.

    The Sierra Club was founded by John Muir to defend Hetch Hetchy Valley over 100 years ago from becoming a reservoir to supply the city of San Francisco with water.

    But taking down the dam is not popular with San Francisco politicians.

  68. How Many People Will Have To Migrate Out Of California When All The Water Disappears?
    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 04/03/2015

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-03/how-many-people-will-have-migrate-out-california-when-all-water-disappears

  69. @Anon
    Guess the race.

    http://nypost.com/2015/04/04/long-daiquiri-lines-spark-massive-brawl-inside-resort-world-casino/?utm

    The brawl you reference was the result of a long daiquiri line. Daiquiris contain rum. Rum was traded for slaves. Slavers made slaves stand in long lines to board slave ships just like this casino made patrons stand in long lines to get a daiquiri. It is only logical that this microaggression would trigger long suppressed cultural memories of slave ships. The brawl was a form of speaking truth to power.

  70. @SFG
    So agriculture with white workers is going to use less water?

    I don't like what the Reconquista is doing to our country, but this is a little disingenuous.

    Maybe Steve’s being to oblique, but the subtext here is replacing the millions of mestizo stoop laborers with equipment that does the same job, freeing the plucky farm workers, as our betters keep telling us, to fulfill their American middle-class destiny.

    Or not.

    Heaven forbid Big Agriculture have to touch the principal and make capital investments.

  71. @EriK
    Steve, please post a picture of you lawn after a month or two of this.

    All this talk of drought has had me worried sick about Steve’s lawn… If Lake Tahoe needs to be drained,then so be it!

  72. @unit472
    19th and early 20th century Americans were, by and large also optimistic types, willing to do what was necessary to solve problems.. One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it. Water shortages in America were once an engineering challenge. Lake Tahoe, e.g. holds about 50 cubic miles of water, i.e, enough to put the entire city of San Francisco under water to a depth of more than 5000 feet. Alternatively, draining it would provide Hoover Dam scale electric power and water sufficient to keep the Central Valley going for another 50 or so years even in a drought scenario. Yes, it would inconvenience a hundred thousand or so 2nd home owners but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    Yes so when the final collapse does come there will be 600 million people at each others throats no 300 million.

  73. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    My parents live on the east coast of Canada, my mom sent me this story from the CBC. They’ve got a local businessman attempting to get snow in Nova Scotia shipped to California at a profit.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/shipping-snow-to-california-1.3017435

    This seems like a folksy, small scale operation, but I wonder if there was dedicated equipment and infrastructure to gather/move it, if it could be feasible on a large scale? It’s hard to convey to somebody in California, but there is A LOT of snow in Canada and some of the northern States. (It’s been a particularly brutal winter this year in the Maritimes and New England)

    I’m sure people have often thought about these sorts of things, but maybe necessity might make business and government look at this sort of idea a bit more seriously?

  74. @SFG
    None of you were attacking agriculture back when it was clean white Middle American types doing agriculture in flyover country. It's just funny the way things go from good to bad depending on who's doing them. Who? Whom? indeed.

    I actually think immigration should be decreased considerably, particularly of illiterate Mexicans, but this isn't an immigration story, this is a climate change story. But we're conservative, so we don't believe in that, right...?

    The Mexicans do lots of awful things to communities they invade--crime, welfare, etc. But they're not responsible for the drought.

    Drop the “none of you”. I for one have written and discussed the problems of big ag my whole thinking life. I thought is was bullshit when my senator was getting hundreds of thousands in ag subsidies not to grow cotton while his field hands were getting 7 bucks a day. When big ag started patenting seeds I ranted against it. Probably quite a few of us have never approved of tax breaking that building “Christmas tree” corporate farms. There’s a lot of jacked up things that have been going on in farming for half a century, and the critique has not all come from libs.

    If you haven’t noticed by now that people on Sailer actually come from quite diverse political orientations and that some rather heterodox thinking goes on, you’ve followed the discussion pretty badly.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Good point. Noted.
  75. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Another possibility about this 25% water cut — it’s all about Jerry Brown getting his water tunnels under the Delta built. This has been a big but obscure controversy:

    “The Delta Tunnels: the worst threat to Northern California rivers in history”, Friends of the River, Jan 2014:

    “How Jerry Brown’s plan to build two giant water tunnels, along with legislation in Congress, could ultimately spoil the last of Northern California’s wild and scenic rivers.”

    …The government’s official estimate for the BDCP price tag is nearly $25 billion.

    …increase the dewatering of the Delta – the West Coast’s largest fresh water estuary…”

    “California officials delay massive Delta water tunnel project”, Matt Weiser, Sacramento Bee, 27-Aug-2014:

    “…the delay in the $25 billion Bay Delta Conservation Plan was triggered by public comments…

    …it focuses on the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, where water is diverted to serve 25 million Californians and 3 million acres of farmland.”

    “Is Jerry Brown’s Delta tunnels plan repeating the errors of high-speed rail?”, Paul Rogers, Mercury News, 9-Dec-2013:

    “…Gov. Jerry Brown has been trying to build two landmark public works projects to reshape California: a $68 billion high-speed rail system and a $25 billion overhaul of the state’s water system, including two massive tunnels under the Delta.”

    One has to wonder about the politics of this… “if we don’t get the tunnels, suffer the little children… a 25% cut might get the message across.”

  76. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “The 25 percent cut in water consumption ordered by Gov. Jerry Brown raises fundamental questions about what life in California will be like in the years ahead, and even whether this state faces the prospect of people leaving for wetter climates … ”

    Perhaps Mexico has a wetter climate.

  77. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Of course, according to the rabid free market types, it would make far more sense for California – to the benefit of the entire USA, to more or less abandon agriculture altogether, use the thus ‘released’ water and land for more ‘productive’ purposes, and to import the fruit band veg foregone from Baja California, for instance, where more ‘efficient’ means of production ie ‘cheap’ Mexican labor and water give a ‘competitive advantage’. After all, it was good for steel and autos.
    Bet your boots it won’t happen though. The ‘market’ value of importing Mexicans to skew permanent Democrat party rule – not to mention the hollering of paid-for economists about the indispensable advantage of a dime off a box of strawberries – even if this is demonstrably erroneous – is just too strong.
    Very few rational arguments in the USA can counter boo-hoo-hoo pieces in the LA or NY times pitying poor torn-shirted Pedro’ and his ‘innocent’ sprogs being ‘exploited’ away in their trailers. It’s an even shriller – and sillier – whine than the ‘box of strawberries’ rant, but it works.

  78. I suppose raising the price of water is out of the question.

  79. Based on snow-pack levels, the current drought in California is no worse than the drought of 1976/1977. What is different from that drought 40 years ago is that the population of California has increased by nearly 80% – from 22 million in 1976 to 39 million today. Most of that increase is due to immigration.

  80. It’s all part of the plan to turn California into Mexico, a dry, poor, undeveloped place where only the rich get to have nice gardens and take long showers.

    It fits in nicely with NAFTA and the process of bringing the US and Canada down to the level of the rest of the Americas.

    It goes along with the worldwide program of fitting the European race in with the sad majority of humanity.

  81. map says:
    @Hipster
    People have noted that 80% of the water goes to Agriculture yet they demand cuts away from agriculture.

    I guess that just shows us that agriculture is a really powerful interest.

    How much money does agriculture soak up? California subsidizes their water. The federal government subsidizes their crops.

    Federal agriculture subsidy cuts seem like a good idea to this city-boy. Dunno why we need quite so much corn and soya anyway. Could spend that money on anything. I dunno, bridges? Trains? Obamacare?

    What you are not understanding is that US economy is built for war. While much of US industry has been outsourced, what has not is food, medicine and weapons. The ability to sustainably fight a war is why these fundamental industries have not been shrunk to a more reasonable size.

  82. Looks like a strong El Niño later this year, so some relief should be forthcoming for CA.

  83. @oo-e-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang
    I have a hand in ag, so I'm biased, but I think the Steve-o-sphere is overly antagonistic towards Ag.
    Think of Ag as something like a standing army.
    The reason you need a standing army is so that there is some skill/knowledge repository in case you suddenly need to scale up operations (see: Sept 10th, 2001).
    Ag is a glacially slow process. For many crops, a year "in the field" (ha ha) is only ONE iteration. In, say, web design you could have dozens of iteration in a year, so you "learn your craft" orders of magnitude faster.
    If America wants to produce food (and we do), keeping farms around, EVEN AT A LOSS, is a net advantage. After all, a huge pacific fleet in 1940 was inarguably a waste of money.
    Food gives us strategic depth (dare I say...freedom?), and it's time-intensive to learn as a vocation, so certain "understandings" simply have to be conceded.

    Strategic advantage of enriching agri-business is outweighed by filling the nation with hostile foreigners who’d never and couldn’t build anything like a Pacific Fleet. Besides, there’s more to life than planning for the next war or tossing around “freedom” as catchphrase.

  84. @unit472
    19th and early 20th century Americans were, by and large also optimistic types, willing to do what was necessary to solve problems.. One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it. Water shortages in America were once an engineering challenge. Lake Tahoe, e.g. holds about 50 cubic miles of water, i.e, enough to put the entire city of San Francisco under water to a depth of more than 5000 feet. Alternatively, draining it would provide Hoover Dam scale electric power and water sufficient to keep the Central Valley going for another 50 or so years even in a drought scenario. Yes, it would inconvenience a hundred thousand or so 2nd home owners but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    >>>but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    And after it is trained? Ever heard of the Aral sea?

    Send this memo to Matthew Yglesias. Techno-libertarian-aspergis like yourself are really annoying.

  85. @unit472
    19th and early 20th century Americans were, by and large also optimistic types, willing to do what was necessary to solve problems.. One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it. Water shortages in America were once an engineering challenge. Lake Tahoe, e.g. holds about 50 cubic miles of water, i.e, enough to put the entire city of San Francisco under water to a depth of more than 5000 feet. Alternatively, draining it would provide Hoover Dam scale electric power and water sufficient to keep the Central Valley going for another 50 or so years even in a drought scenario. Yes, it would inconvenience a hundred thousand or so 2nd home owners but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it.

    Sometimes that doesn’t work out well. See the Aral Sea.

  86. @yaqub the mad scientist
    Drop the "none of you". I for one have written and discussed the problems of big ag my whole thinking life. I thought is was bullshit when my senator was getting hundreds of thousands in ag subsidies not to grow cotton while his field hands were getting 7 bucks a day. When big ag started patenting seeds I ranted against it. Probably quite a few of us have never approved of tax breaking that building "Christmas tree" corporate farms. There's a lot of jacked up things that have been going on in farming for half a century, and the critique has not all come from libs.

    If you haven't noticed by now that people on Sailer actually come from quite diverse political orientations and that some rather heterodox thinking goes on, you've followed the discussion pretty badly.

    Good point. Noted.

  87. @Pseudonymic Handle
    There are 15.1 million whites in California, but I'm curious how many are of european descent, because the census definition of whites includes middle easterners. Wikipedia counts 715k arabs, 500k iranians, 100k azeri and 600k armenians, plus large comunities of assyrians and turks. Another source mentions 1.23 million jews. That would add to 3.2-3.5 million whites from the Middle East and 11-12 millions of europeans.

    I suspect there are fewer Anglo-Saxon/Germanic protestants in California now than there were in 1913 when the first LA Aqueduct was completed. Possibly not if you include various 1/2s, 1/4s, 1/8ths.

    Certainly there are fewer now than there were at the height of California Aerospace (plausibly 1965?).

  88. @unit472
    19th and early 20th century Americans were, by and large also optimistic types, willing to do what was necessary to solve problems.. One of the things civilized man does is move water from where it is to where he needs it. Water shortages in America were once an engineering challenge. Lake Tahoe, e.g. holds about 50 cubic miles of water, i.e, enough to put the entire city of San Francisco under water to a depth of more than 5000 feet. Alternatively, draining it would provide Hoover Dam scale electric power and water sufficient to keep the Central Valley going for another 50 or so years even in a drought scenario. Yes, it would inconvenience a hundred thousand or so 2nd home owners but there would also be an enormous Alpine meadow of 240 square miles of new land that could be sold to compensate them as Tahoe was drained.

    So we should drain the jewel of the Sierras to accommodate a water-hungry ag lobby that is happy to displace Americans’ grandchildren with the progeny of foreign helots?

    No thanks. To hell with the growers, and to Mexico with the helots.

    Yes, there’s an American tradition of ambitious hydro-engineering, but then again, Muir was as American as Mulholland.

  89. As long as we’re engaging in long-term speculation…

    The California water problem is yet more evidence that now is actually a pretty good time to partition the country (as farfetched as that prospect is). Better to draw the lines now than to do so after a massive exodus of liberals and Mexicans from a bone-dry California.

    Likewise, post-white metropolitan centers are still basically run by moderates and SWPL liberals who make the trains run on time (Bloomberg, Emanuel, etc.) Again, better to draw the lines while our great metropolitan centers are still economically strong immigration sinks rather than sources of emmigration run by Coleman Young types.

  90. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Speaking of California and budgets… The UC system has been under extreme financial pressure for a while. All that talk about science and stuff? Well, like water maybe the state just can’t afford stuff like that anymore. Where did all that money go?

    A prime example is the state of the Lick Observatory, the first purpose-built permanently-occupied mountain-top observatory in the world. This could have been a sad story and still might not turn out well. (The observatory is now hoping to raise it’s own endowment.)

    “Google Gives Lick Observatory $1 Million to Relieve Funding Woes”, Elizabeth Howell, Space.com, 3-March-2015:

    “…Google will give $1 million to Lick Observatory, a University of California facility that has been battling for funds since 2013. …

    …Two years ago, the university threatened to cut off funding in 2018 amid overall budget cuts.

    …the money would buy time for the observatory to look for more money… hoping will come in the form of a $50 million endowment.

    …The observatory was established in 1888…

    …Prominent work at Lick includes discovering most of the first 100 exoplanets…

    …The telescopes have also been used to test technologies. One example is adaptive optics…”

    Although it’s old, Lick has proven to be a good place to develop and test new instruments and is a great training observatory. Since it’s no longer the biggest, it’s a place astronomers can afford to experiment with new things that might fail. That’s likely why it has been so prominent in detecting planets outside the solar system and in developing adaptive optics (which has changed the entire field of ground-based astronomy).

    Be a shame to lose it, and all that.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    UC science is OK. The problem is all the money flushed down the drain used to keep the diversity scam going. Heather MacDonald has written extensively about how much money the UC wastes on these parasites.
  91. @Perspective

    But hiring unskilled illegal aliens to do stoop laborer has traditionally been a major engine of California’s demographic transformation
     
    Try to imagine what California would have been like if it had a successful temporary work program, that was very stringent in returning the help south after growing season, and a fortified border. My guess would be that Asians (including Indian sub-con Asians) would have a more dominant role.

    They did. Migrant farm workers returned to Mexico after the harvest for the most part. Then those brilkiant ag business men started putting them up in shacks and trailers out I. The fields and the rest is history as they say

  92. @anonymous
    Speaking of California and budgets... The UC system has been under extreme financial pressure for a while. All that talk about science and stuff? Well, like water maybe the state just can't afford stuff like that anymore. Where did all that money go?

    A prime example is the state of the Lick Observatory, the first purpose-built permanently-occupied mountain-top observatory in the world. This could have been a sad story and still might not turn out well. (The observatory is now hoping to raise it's own endowment.)

    "Google Gives Lick Observatory $1 Million to Relieve Funding Woes", Elizabeth Howell, Space.com, 3-March-2015:


    "...Google will give $1 million to Lick Observatory, a University of California facility that has been battling for funds since 2013. ...

    ...Two years ago, the university threatened to cut off funding in 2018 amid overall budget cuts.

    ...the money would buy time for the observatory to look for more money... hoping will come in the form of a $50 million endowment.

    ...The observatory was established in 1888...

    ...Prominent work at Lick includes discovering most of the first 100 exoplanets...

    ...The telescopes have also been used to test technologies. One example is adaptive optics..."

     

    Although it's old, Lick has proven to be a good place to develop and test new instruments and is a great training observatory. Since it's no longer the biggest, it's a place astronomers can afford to experiment with new things that might fail. That's likely why it has been so prominent in detecting planets outside the solar system and in developing adaptive optics (which has changed the entire field of ground-based astronomy).

    Be a shame to lose it, and all that.

    UC science is OK. The problem is all the money flushed down the drain used to keep the diversity scam going. Heather MacDonald has written extensively about how much money the UC wastes on these parasites.

  93. Pew’s data also focused on the types of jobs illegal aliens have and the states where they make up the largest share of the workforce. “Because unauthorized immigrants tend to have less education than people born in the U.S. or legal immigrants, they are more likely to hold low-skilled jobs,” the report noted. (Id.) Accordingly, approximately 56% of illegal alien workers work in three sectors: services (22%); leisure and hospitality (18%); and construction (16%). (Id.) By comparison, 31% of U.S.-born workers are employed in these three sectors. (Id.) Finally, Pew noted that manufacturing (13%) and agriculture (5%) have “relatively large shares” of the illegal alien workforce. (Id.) Illegal aliens represent the highest share of the labor force in Nevada (10.2%), California (9.4%), and Texas (8.9%). (Id. at 6) this shows that Nevada and Texas are big culprits and Steve gushes over Texas all the time. Everyone knows about the Leisure and Hospitality and construction, folks around here don’t know as much about the light Assembly jobs or warehousing that hires a lot of them as well. This proves it.

  94. Another thing all the conservatives here were opposed to having the minium wage at 12 per hour under the Ron Unz scheme. It might have destroy some restaurants and Hotel and motel business which tend to employ illegal immigrants more than other jobs but no the conservatives here had to support the free market and the illegal immigrants moved more into Leisure and Hospitality as construction dried up. Instead all the right wants to do is some e-verify which is not always accurate could be more accurate and deportation. Deportation these days means they get sent to TJ and many come back.

  95. @JohnnyWalker123
    Liberals are often ridiculously stupid and hypocritical, but who really drives immigration policy in California? It wasn't until very recently that Democrats became in control of the state, which has historically had a very powerful Republican machine. If the Republicans had wanted, they could've used all types of tools to deter immigration.

    The reason California was flooded with immigrants was due to business interests - agribusiness, the construction industry, real estate developers, etc. Especially business interests in southern California. These are the people who hire illegals because American workers are too "lazy" to work 12 hour days for $10 an hour, while gutting any attempt at immigration enforcement. They are the speculators who made out like bandits in the housing boom. These are the people who tell us that "skill shortage" plagues our software industry and therefore feel the need to file H1b tech visas.

    While the New York Times is full of diversity-worshipping liberals and anti-gentile intellectuals, what excuse does the Wall Street Journal have? They seem to be even more fervently pro-immigration than even the NY Times, which used to (occasionally) criticize immigration. The WSJ has literally called for open borders, which liberals are not completely for.

    You can't have a sane immigration policy until you take on the Chamber of Commerce, Agribusiness, Silicon Valley, and real estate developers. As long as those groups continue to dominate the "right" in America, we will have mass immigration. Even if Republicans win the next 5 presidential elections and have a 2/3 majority in the House and Senate, we will have mass immigration. We can defeat the left, but good luck defeating the right.

    Patriotic conservatives (ie most of the Republican base) have to stop praising the wealthy. It creates the mentality that it's okay to push down wages and support fast paced population growth.

    I agree, Orange and Kern County have a higher percentage of Illegal immigrants than San Fran and Santa Clara for the reasons you just mention. In fact people here can promote Airbab over Hotels since it individuals renting their houses or condos to vacationers. Granted, some illegals may be use to do house work but Hotels and Motels are going to hire them more than people renting through Airbab.

  96. @Daniel H
    Agree with all you say. That is why I damn Pete Wilson. Few people realize how instrumental Pete Wilson was in trashing the intents and execution of the Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty of 1986. Back in 1986 it looked like we were going to get a grip on mass illegal immigration with no compensatory boost in legal immigration. At the 11th hour Wilson, at the behest of California farmers, inserted language into the law that not only gutted the reasonable qualifications for amnesty but also paved the way for more and endless illegal immigration that morphed into endless natural disaster amnesties, chain migration and put wind in the sails of the likes of Kennedy and Schumer to demand more legal immigration and temporary(ha, permanent) work visas.

    Wilson's actions left the 1986 amnesty so unenforceable that I would not be surprised if there is still litigation going on by migrants claiming cover under the 1986 act. I know that well into the 2000s there was still litigation going on.

    Good point, People think of him as a hero because of prop 187 but Prop 187 didn’t deal with the real reason why they were a lot of illegal immigrants, the job market. It just limited their welfare and was going to kick their kids out of school but didn’t prevent them from getting a job. There were a few Id reforms on Prop 187 but not enough to deal with the hiring problem. Also, having a driver’s license or not does not prevent them from employment. In Fair a more honest study shows Ca has 9.4 percent of the workforce illegal while Texas which does more like deportation and denies them drivers license has 8.9 percent which is not that much different. Fine the hell at the companies along time ago would have solved the problem more. The highest state as a percentage of illegal immigrants is Nevada in the workplace at 10.2

  97. @JohnnyWalker123
    Back in the 1950s, Republican Eisenhower rejected this line of thinking from the agribusiness lobby and ordered mass scale deportations. JFK and LBJ further limited Mexican migration by ending the Bracero program. There was a time when both the left and the right were firmly in favor of restriction and wanted to protect American workers.

    If this seems strange, look at Germany. German Unions and German conservatives have worked together to protect German workers from non-EU worker migration. Recently, a German politician floated the idea to have a Canada-style points system to bring in outside non-EU labor migrants. This proposal was rejected by both German liberals and conservatives. Interestingly, both German conservatives and liberals are open towards European migration. It's non-European migration that threatens both sides.

    Japanese corporate interests exercise massive influence over the Japanese govt and there's not much of a labor left, but their desire to bring guest workers is frequently thwarted by conservatives who want to preserve Japan's homogeneity.

    We need conservatives like Boone Pickens, Bob Perry (now deceased), Adelson, and the Koch brothers to put aside their financial interests to advocate for immigration restriction. In a functioning country, such men would not be advocating guest worker programs or amnesty. In a functioning country, Tancredo and Jeff Sessions would be receiving millions in donations from these men. Do you think Israeli billionaires want H1bs imported to Tel Aviv?

    An additional issue to consider is the strong role of unions in restricting immigration. If we had a meaningful union movement in America, there never would've been an H1b visa and illegal immigration would've been deterred. By waging war on unions, our conservatives undercut a natural barrier to immigration.

    Another barrier to immigration is what the right would call "big government." Typically, you need citizenship to apply for govt employment. By downsizing govt and shifting its work to third party private contractors, we permit our tax dollars to flow into the hands of immigrant workers. If more work was done in house by govt employees, that'd be more difficult.

    Honestly, what's the point of voting for Republicans anyway? Because they'll stand with Israel? They'll cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires? They'll get rid of environmental, labor, and financial regulation? They'll fight a war with Iran? They'll legalize gay marriage slightly more slowly?

    How in any meaningful way was W. better than Obama?

    Good point, Ike was a moderate and not a conservative like Reagan. In fact the John Birch Society that Chuck Baldwin is apart of called Ike a communists. People really against the immigration should not buy into right wing politics because since moderates like Ike Eisenhower did something about the immigration situation while conservatives like Reagan and Bush didn’t.

  98. Ike, Truman, and FDR were patriotic. So they were firmly anti-illegal immigration. JFK and LBJ allowed mass immigration to resume, but at least they ended the Bracero program and instituted restrictive quotas (previously, there was an open border between America and Latin America) on Latin American immigration.

    It was from the mid 1970s onward that we started to see large scale immigration from south of the border. By the mid 1980s, the consensus was to provide green cards to illegals.

    The reason was because by the mid/late 1970s, the consensus was that whatever was “good for business” was also good America. Since illegals worked longer for less money and made real estate speculators wealthy (by buying houses and working cheaply), they were popular with politicians. “Greed is good.” So the Democrats and, most especially, the Republicans became pro-illegal.

    If we want sane immigration policies, defeating the “pro-business” right is much important than defeating the left. The left may celebrate diversity, but it’s right-wing real estate plutocrats who want to import boat loads of diverse to build (and buy) their tract housing. Republican-controlled states like Texas and (until the Democrats took over in the mid/late 90s) California actually got flooded the worst due to greedy real estate developers and agribusiness.

    Sometimes Democrats can be preferable to Republicans, since they sometimes favor environmental restrictions (constricting the growth of housing supply) and unions. To be honest though, both parties are so oligarch-dominated at this point that the differences aren’t really that significant.

    My point is that being pro-Republican is not in our interest. Only the top 0.1 percent of the income distribution should be strongly Republican. The remainder of the population should support a moderate labor political that is anti-immigration, anti-outsourcing, anti-financialization, and pro-worker.

  99. One of those ‘simple when you think about it’ insights. Who would’ve thunk it! S.S. that’s who!

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