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Don't Mention the Asians! NY Times vs. NY Post in Covering Who Gets Into Selective High Schools
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From the New York Times:

Diversity Lags as Students Are Matched With City Schools
By ELIZABETH A. HARRIS MARCH 8, 2017

… Despite a push to increase the number of black and Latino students at the city’s most competitive high schools, the specialized schools, the number of those students who were offered seats for the fall was essentially unchanged from last year, according to the department.

Entry to eight specialized high schools is based entirely upon a single standardized test, and the schools have long been criticized for the demographic makeup of the students who are admitted. Only about 10 percent of offers from those schools were extended to black and Latino students, though those students make up about 68 percent of the school system.

… Nonetheless, the number of offers made to black and Latino students went from 530 last year to 524 this year.

The Times doesn’t mention the word “Asian” in their article.

From the New York Post:

Asian kids dominate admission to city’s elite high schools
By Selim Algar March 8, 2017 | 10:13pm

Once again, Asians kids dominated the annual stampede for admission to the city’s eight elite high schools for the upcoming academic year, according to newly released Department of Education data.

Of the 5,078 jubilant eighth-graders who received acceptance letters this week — out of 27,853 total applicants — 52.5 percent were Asian, the DOE reported on Thursday.

White students lagged well behind their Asian peers, comprising just 28 percent of those who passed the ultra-competitive process.

Hispanic students comprised 6.5 percent of the total and black kids just 3.8 percent. Multi-racial applicants made up 1.3 percent of those admitted and 7.4 percent were of unknown background, according to the data. Native Americans registered 0.5 percent of the total.

 
    []
  1. Paul Rain says:

    Just ridiculous. Looking at those numbers, you can guarantee that white students (particularly actually white white students) were subject to intense discrimination. But it’s the natural under performance of the blacks and beans that gets attention.

    Read More
    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Clyde

    blacks and beans that gets attention
     
    lol lulz!
    , @Triumph104
    There is no discrimination. Fewer whites took the exam, 5070 whites compared to 8345 Asians.

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Screen-Shot-2017-03-08-at-2.21.38-PM.png
    , @Forbes
    White student population is 14%, while whites offered slots was 28%.
    , @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.
    , @Desiderius
    Well that's the purpose.

    Prog politics has devolved into keeping the other whites down.
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  2. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What is the actual percentage of white (European descended) public school students in New York City?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    What is the actual percentage of white (European descended) public school students in New York City?
     
    Whatever this percentage is it will be dominated by Greeks, Italians, Serbs, assorted Balkan types, Poles, Albanians who have a lock on the shockingly lucrative job of doorman at upper tier NYC condominium buildings, Russian Jews whose parents immigrated, not too many North Europeans. Used to be lots of Norwegians in NYC. Maybe some are still there.
    , @Perspective
    According to the excel spread sheet from the NYC department of education, in 2011/2012 NYC schools were: Asian 15.1% Black 29.4 Hispanic 40 Other 1 White 14.5. By 2015/2016, what is notable is the fall in Black enrollment: Asian 15.5 Black 27.1 Hispanic 40.5 Other 2.1 White 14.8. I'm not sure how many of the "Whites" are actually Uzbeks, Afghans, Iranians and Arabs though. Language data could probably filter some of it. Among all the boroughs, Brooklyn and Manhattan have seen the biggest gain in White students, while Staten Island and Queens saw the biggest declines.

    http://schools.nyc.gov/AboutUs/schools/data/default.htm
    , @Dr. X
    New York City is 33% non-Hispanic white, so the white admission numbers actually aren't very far off from the percentage of the overall population -- particularly when you factor in the anti-white animus in the educational business.
  3. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Some of them yellows might even be honorary blacks or seoul brothers.

    Read More
  4. keuril says:

    Multi-racial applicants made up 1.3 percent of those admitted and 7.4 percent were of unknown background, according to the data.

    Multi-racial is a unique and specific category that means Asian-white multiracial. Multiracial blacks and Latinos are counted only as black or Latino. In other words multi-racial students are not double-counted in other categories. This is the same convention as is used by colleges in reporting race on the Common Data Set.

    Unknown is probably mostly Asian and some white.

    Read More
  5. El Dato says:

    It’s a conspiracy! Why won’t the dice roll right?

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2016/06/09/getting-black-and-hispanic-students-into-specialized-schools-remains-a-challenge-even-for-programs-designed-to-help/

    One way the city is trying to enroll more black and Hispanic students at its elite specialized high schools is by expanding a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students get into those schools — illustrating the challenge of boosting black and Hispanic enrollment at those most-competitive schools.

    The city will expand the Discovery program, which extends admission to some students who score just below the admissions cutoff and who complete summer coursework. Officials announced the expansion as part of a larger push to increase diversity in the specialized high schools on Thursday. The existing Discovery program at Brooklyn Technical School will expand, and a new program will begin at the High School of American Studies at Lehman College, the smallest of the eight schools.

    Most of the students in the Discovery program, though, are not black or Hispanic. And as enrollment for summer 2016 grows — to 220 students from 120 last summer — its share of black and Hispanic students is declining. In addition, two of the top specialized schools simply choose not to participate in the program.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?
    , @guest
    The challenge of boosting blah, blah, blah. Reminds me of the sitcom How I Met Your Mother, in which the childish, possibly psychotic pick-up artist character, Barney, would grasp at some throw-away line from his friends and say, "Challenge accepted!" Meaning 9 times out of 10 he'd have to try to pick up girls with some sort of ridiculous handicap, like wearing overalls, completely unintended by the person who spoke the line that set him off.

    Whoever told these people they had to boost the enrollment of blacks and browns, to which they said "Challenge accepted!" They want us to think, I presume, the challenge has been laid down by a combination of the innate justice of statistical representation of the racial make-up of the population at large anywhere and everywhere in society plus the need to counteract the evil racism that keeps it from happening. But really it's just their childishness and psychopathology. They need jobs (managing the Gap, acting against the Gap, studying the Gap, reporting on the Gap, etc.), and the Gap perpetually provides one.

    Here's a plan: how about we give all the current elite schools over to the underrepresented. They can have them. You can even rename them after Obama and Cesar Chavez, or whatever. Then we give new schools to whites and Asians. Together or separately, whatever they prefer. Everyone's happy.

    Come on, you know that's where we're headed. (Well, that or war.)
    , @International Jew

    a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students
     
    The tyranny of exp(-x^2/2).
  6. mukat says:

    1.3% are Multiracial – 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she ‘won’ – her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor – both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial – do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the ‘multiracial’ box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of ‘Pocohantas’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymouslee
    The Tiger Mom herself, a yale law professor, is rather below par for the gene pool her kids are swimming in.

    Their dad was a REAL star at Harvard law school and is a constitutional law professor at Yale purely on merit as one of the smartest legal minds in the world (Chua got spousal consideration).

    chuas father is a legitimate genius of world historical importance: "He is a professor in the electrical engineering and computer sciences department at the University of California, Berkeley, which he joined in 1971. He has contributed to nonlinear circuit theory and cellular neural network (CNN) theory.[2] He is also the inventor and namesake of Chua's circuit[3] one of the first and most widely known circuits to exhibit chaotic behavior, and was the first to conceive the theories behind, and postulate the existence of, the memristor.[4] Thirty-seven years after he predicted its existence, a working solid-state memristor was created by a team led by R. Stanley Williams at Hewlett Packard"

    Chua also has some siblings more intellectually impressive than she is (Stanford medical researchers or whatever)


    So maybe the tiger momming wasn't strictly necessary for her kids to do well in high school? At least, perhaps we shouldn't take the kids modest suçcess as evidence for the benefits of being a highly annoying parent. Chua might have realized this when her more successful husband pointed out his liberal jewish-american family didn't need to tiger mom him. But then again Amy never did live up to her father's expectations.
    , @PiltdownMan

    Back to multiracial – do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the ‘multiracial’ box?
     
    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.
    , @Pericles
    What's the racial makeup of the Harvard admissions board?
    , @keuril
    At the very top schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford), being a legacy of a parent who only has a graduate degree from the school does not count as an advantageous legacy; the parent needs to have an undergrad degree from the school.

    However, having a parent who is a prof at the school is a huge advantage, especially if it's a superstar prof. Having said that, iirc Tiger Mom's kids got into multiple top schools, so they probably got in on merit.

    As for Asian/white multiracial, it's not an advantage. Probably the expectations are similar to those for Asians (i.e., slightly higher than for whites), because that's what the talent pool for this group is. All schools break this category out separately in the CDS. In Harvard's most recent CDS, multiracial were 6.6% of undergrads.
    http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf

    While Asians have the highest average test scores of all groups, I'd say it's slightly harder to get in as an unhooked white student because so many hooks (legacy, athletic recruits to blue blood sports, development) are white.

    Within Asians, it's hardest to get in as Chinese or Korean.
    , @Ivy
    Tiger Moms.
    Bonobo Moms.
    One of those is not like the other.
    And more likely to be single.
    , @Federal Farmer
    Tiger Mom has a B.A. and a J.D. from Harvard. Eagle Dad has a B.A. from Princeton and a J.D. from Harvard. But more importantly, both are famous Yale Law faculty members. Tiger Mom was the author of the bestseller World on Fire. Eagle Dad is one of the nation's leading scholars of criminal and constitutional law. It's hard to imagine a world in which the cubs didn't end up at elite schools, even if they hadn't turned out quite as sharp as mom and dad. I doubt tiger mom tactics or marking "multiracial" on the form had much to do with it. They had elite genes, attended an elite high school with a peer group made up of other faculty children, and had famous parents with lots of legacy points.
  7. @El Dato
    It's a conspiracy! Why won't the dice roll right?

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2016/06/09/getting-black-and-hispanic-students-into-specialized-schools-remains-a-challenge-even-for-programs-designed-to-help/

    One way the city is trying to enroll more black and Hispanic students at its elite specialized high schools is by expanding a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students get into those schools — illustrating the challenge of boosting black and Hispanic enrollment at those most-competitive schools.

    The city will expand the Discovery program, which extends admission to some students who score just below the admissions cutoff and who complete summer coursework. Officials announced the expansion as part of a larger push to increase diversity in the specialized high schools on Thursday. The existing Discovery program at Brooklyn Technical School will expand, and a new program will begin at the High School of American Studies at Lehman College, the smallest of the eight schools.

    Most of the students in the Discovery program, though, are not black or Hispanic. And as enrollment for summer 2016 grows — to 220 students from 120 last summer — its share of black and Hispanic students is declining. In addition, two of the top specialized schools simply choose not to participate in the program.
     

    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?

    Read More
    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @unit472
    The same situation may keep white enrollment in NYC's elite public schools down. There must be a large number of white children in NYC who have never attended a public school. If you've gone private since nursery school there wouldn't much incentive to transfer to the public school system for high school even if it was an elite school.
    , @JimB
    I was thinking along similar lines, that wealthy private schools skim the cream of gifted Hispanics and blacks. Also, the demographic of white kids living in NY is represented by pop singers Lady Gaga (Sacred Heart) and Emily Warren (Trinity), with wealthy parents completely uninterested in sending their kids to "free" schools with monthly lice outbreaks. The public gifted schools aren't what they used to be. The quality of teaching has declined significantly over the years, and the impersonal learning factory environment of the Asian dominated schools is a turnoff to white gifted snowflake kids, who prefer highly individualized instruction and project oriented learning.
    , @Discordiax
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?"

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn't be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?

    By contrast, helping your gifted class fill out the couple of pages of forms to take the citywide standardized test is pretty easy.
    , @Jimi
    I work in Tribeca the NYC neighborhood Stuyvesant High School is located. Between 3:30 ad 4PM the streets are flooded with Asian, Indian, and a few White kids walking to the train station to go home.

    They're exactly as you would imagine. Lots of nerdy teens who look too young to be teenagers. They're conversations revolve around how to please their immigrant parents who have high ambitions for their children.
    , @George
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate"

    Those schools are not as big as the public schools. Graduation is probably like 100 per school. So if you figure 10 blacks get scholarships at each that is just 40 individuals. I suspect the kid has to be more than smart, even if black, to get a scholarship.
    , @Laugh Track

    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?
     
    In all fairness, while working one's way through the paperwork and application process for either private or elite public schools may seem like no big deal, it is stuff like this that the parents (or school counselors) of smart black kids may have little clue about. If some bright black kid has, at best, an overworked single mom as his parent, there may be no awareness that Dalton or Horace Mann even exist. My guess is that upward-striving white or asian parents likely have more awareness of the options than black or hispanic parent(s).
    , @Karl
    8 iSteve > So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?

    because it's better for getting into CalTech or MIT. Where you won't have to compete with the Obama girls for the best internships.


    And.... because you can get to the campus(es) on public transportation, which runs 24 hours a day. So you can stay late for the differential-equations club, if you want.

    Who here, can name the subway stop that serves Bronx High School of Science without using a map?
  8. weird little point: there’s no way native Americans make up enough of NYC 8th graders to be 0.5% of the elite. No way.

    So who’s lying about it? White kids trying to get in on the AA game? Latinos who are part Taino or Mayan?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    Elizabeth Warren?
    , @Buffalo Joe
    anonymouslee, They're Elizabeth Warren's relatives, honest injun.
  9. @mukat
    1.3% are Multiracial - 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she 'won' - her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor - both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial - do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the 'multiracial' box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of 'Pocohantas'.

    The Tiger Mom herself, a yale law professor, is rather below par for the gene pool her kids are swimming in.

    Their dad was a REAL star at Harvard law school and is a constitutional law professor at Yale purely on merit as one of the smartest legal minds in the world (Chua got spousal consideration).

    chuas father is a legitimate genius of world historical importance: “He is a professor in the electrical engineering and computer sciences department at the University of California, Berkeley, which he joined in 1971. He has contributed to nonlinear circuit theory and cellular neural network (CNN) theory.[2] He is also the inventor and namesake of Chua’s circuit[3] one of the first and most widely known circuits to exhibit chaotic behavior, and was the first to conceive the theories behind, and postulate the existence of, the memristor.[4] Thirty-seven years after he predicted its existence, a working solid-state memristor was created by a team led by R. Stanley Williams at Hewlett Packard”

    Chua also has some siblings more intellectually impressive than she is (Stanford medical researchers or whatever)

    So maybe the tiger momming wasn’t strictly necessary for her kids to do well in high school? At least, perhaps we shouldn’t take the kids modest suçcess as evidence for the benefits of being a highly annoying parent. Chua might have realized this when her more successful husband pointed out his liberal jewish-american family didn’t need to tiger mom him. But then again Amy never did live up to her father’s expectations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Professor Chua's students say she works super-hard as a teacher. Teaching is not Yale Law School's top priority, but it's nice to have somebody around who makes it her top priority.
    , @Opinionator
    One of the smartest legal minds in the world (Chua got spousal consideration).

    I've begun to wonder what it means to have a "smart legal mind"? Is that someone good at memorizing rules? Good at manipulating rules?

    If that is what it is, it doesn't seem commensurate with the virtue and praise embodied in phrases like "brilliant legal mind."
  10. unit472 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    The same situation may keep white enrollment in NYC’s elite public schools down. There must be a large number of white children in NYC who have never attended a public school. If you’ve gone private since nursery school there wouldn’t much incentive to transfer to the public school system for high school even if it was an elite school.

    Read More
  11. @mukat
    1.3% are Multiracial - 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she 'won' - her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor - both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial - do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the 'multiracial' box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of 'Pocohantas'.

    Back to multiracial – do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the ‘multiracial’ box?

    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    Most of the black multiracials identify as black, so they really help boost up the black numbers. I don't think it's a targeted effort by Ivies. Just that the cream among blacks are often mixed or light skin.
    , @Clyde

    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.
     
    I never thought about biracial anything before Obama. Obama gave them new confidence. BiRacial is really in these days, are seen as superior hybrids and of course seen as the (inevitable) future/ How about the very light Valerie Jarrett? She must have been ragged on endlessly when she was young due to her lightness and Chinese-ish facial features. Called Chinky Chinaman by less unenlightened black kids. Of course she identifies as black and was in for revenge while just about living in the White House 24/7 We know she's Obama's brains and intellectual dominatrix whip it good!

    So when is Valerie Jarrett going to be on Henry Louis Gates' DNA show? This would be a kick, her Afro DNA looks 15% tops.
  12. JimB says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    I was thinking along similar lines, that wealthy private schools skim the cream of gifted Hispanics and blacks. Also, the demographic of white kids living in NY is represented by pop singers Lady Gaga (Sacred Heart) and Emily Warren (Trinity), with wealthy parents completely uninterested in sending their kids to “free” schools with monthly lice outbreaks. The public gifted schools aren’t what they used to be. The quality of teaching has declined significantly over the years, and the impersonal learning factory environment of the Asian dominated schools is a turnoff to white gifted snowflake kids, who prefer highly individualized instruction and project oriented learning.

    Read More
  13. Ed says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Back to multiracial – do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the ‘multiracial’ box?
     
    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.

    Most of the black multiracials identify as black, so they really help boost up the black numbers. I don’t think it’s a targeted effort by Ivies. Just that the cream among blacks are often mixed or light skin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    I'm going to hazard a guess that having one Jewish parent and one non-Caucasian parent, whether Asian or Black, really boosts a kid's chances. Again, no data. Just a strong gut feel and confirmation from next-generation relatives at these schools and my non-scientific headcount of children of colleagues and friends who made the "holistic" grade.

    Good test scores are a given, of course, but as Ron Unz documented, that's nowhere near enough for all-Asian kids with high test scores, for whom it is a crapshoot, or for Caucasian non-Jewish kids for whom it is the same.

  14. @Ed
    Most of the black multiracials identify as black, so they really help boost up the black numbers. I don't think it's a targeted effort by Ivies. Just that the cream among blacks are often mixed or light skin.

    I’m going to hazard a guess that having one Jewish parent and one non-Caucasian parent, whether Asian or Black, really boosts a kid’s chances. Again, no data. Just a strong gut feel and confirmation from next-generation relatives at these schools and my non-scientific headcount of children of colleagues and friends who made the “holistic” grade.

    Good test scores are a given, of course, but as Ron Unz documented, that’s nowhere near enough for all-Asian kids with high test scores, for whom it is a crapshoot, or for Caucasian non-Jewish kids for whom it is the same.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    Speaking of random anecdotes, I seem to notice more millennial couples, especially white guy asian woman, giving their kids Jewish first names. Odd.
  15. TheJester says:

    Maybe biracial kids are preferred for quota counts because, at the least, they can be moved into whatever box needs to up its count … or, at the most, they can be double or triple counted. Kind of like a woman who is White with Amerindian blood and a Hispanic surname.

    Flexibility like that is a godsend to HR departments trying to paint the most appealing pictures of diversity as they sort through their delusional definitions of justice and equality.

    Read More
  16. Clyde says:
    @Paul Rain
    Just ridiculous. Looking at those numbers, you can guarantee that white students (particularly actually white white students) were subject to intense discrimination. But it's the natural under performance of the blacks and beans that gets attention.

    blacks and beans that gets attention

    lol lulz!

    Read More
  17. ic1000 says:

    Selim Algar’s Post piece is peppered with action words: dominate, stampede, elite, jubilant, ultra-competitive.

    The Gray Lady’s promise: less information and snoozy prose!

    Read More
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    That's what happens when less and less news is "fit to print"
  18. Clyde says:
    @Anonymous
    What is the actual percentage of white (European descended) public school students in New York City?

    What is the actual percentage of white (European descended) public school students in New York City?

    Whatever this percentage is it will be dominated by Greeks, Italians, Serbs, assorted Balkan types, Poles, Albanians who have a lock on the shockingly lucrative job of doorman at upper tier NYC condominium buildings, Russian Jews whose parents immigrated, not too many North Europeans. Used to be lots of Norwegians in NYC. Maybe some are still there.

    Read More
  19. Clyde says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Back to multiracial – do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the ‘multiracial’ box?
     
    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.

    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.

    I never thought about biracial anything before Obama. Obama gave them new confidence. BiRacial is really in these days, are seen as superior hybrids and of course seen as the (inevitable) future/ How about the very light Valerie Jarrett? She must have been ragged on endlessly when she was young due to her lightness and Chinese-ish facial features. Called Chinky Chinaman by less unenlightened black kids. Of course she identifies as black and was in for revenge while just about living in the White House 24/7 We know she’s Obama’s brains and intellectual dominatrix whip it good!

    So when is Valerie Jarrett going to be on Henry Louis Gates’ DNA show? This would be a kick, her Afro DNA looks 15% tops.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Valerie Jarrett has already been on the show. Her DNA is 49% European, 46% Sub Saharan African, and 5% Native American. (Stanford, University of Michigan Law School) (Jarrett's daughter: University of Chicago Lab School, Amherst, Harvard Law)

    Cory Booker has a similar makeup: 47% African, 45% European, 7% Native American. (Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law School)

  20. Pericles says:
    @mukat
    1.3% are Multiracial - 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she 'won' - her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor - both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial - do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the 'multiracial' box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of 'Pocohantas'.

    What’s the racial makeup of the Harvard admissions board?

    Read More
  21. @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    “If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?”

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn’t be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?

    By contrast, helping your gifted class fill out the couple of pages of forms to take the citywide standardized test is pretty easy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    The guidance counselor or a parent simply gives a child's name to a program and the program handles the rest.

    There are several programs in New York City designed to send black and Hispanic kids to top private schools, Prep for Prep, A Better Chance, and Breakthrough New York are three that come to mind.

    Most black and Hispanic kids who get into specialized high schools were not in gifted programs.
    , @Negrolphin Pool

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn't be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?
     
    Is education merit-based enough that a "talented guidance counselor" who found himself in the employ of a prison pipeline slurry pond could just send in his recruiting highlight tape and get picked up in the first round prep school draft?
    , @Steve Sailer
    Dalton has 141 blacks out of 1300 total students, more than it has Asians.

    I'm sure Dalton employs staffers to keep the Diversity pipeline full.
  22. keuril says:
    @mukat
    1.3% are Multiracial - 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she 'won' - her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor - both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial - do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the 'multiracial' box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of 'Pocohantas'.

    At the very top schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford), being a legacy of a parent who only has a graduate degree from the school does not count as an advantageous legacy; the parent needs to have an undergrad degree from the school.

    However, having a parent who is a prof at the school is a huge advantage, especially if it’s a superstar prof. Having said that, iirc Tiger Mom’s kids got into multiple top schools, so they probably got in on merit.

    As for Asian/white multiracial, it’s not an advantage. Probably the expectations are similar to those for Asians (i.e., slightly higher than for whites), because that’s what the talent pool for this group is. All schools break this category out separately in the CDS. In Harvard’s most recent CDS, multiracial were 6.6% of undergrads.

    http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf

    While Asians have the highest average test scores of all groups, I’d say it’s slightly harder to get in as an unhooked white student because so many hooks (legacy, athletic recruits to blue blood sports, development) are white.

    Within Asians, it’s hardest to get in as Chinese or Korean.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Probably Asia/white multiracials are squeezing Whites out of the White quota. It doesn't feel like a brazen lie to just check "White" on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.
  23. the schools have long been criticized for the demographic makeup of the students who are admitted

    Such use of the passive voice is classic fake journalism tell. A real journalist would name the critics; or at least indicate that such criticism is not universal. Instead the reader is subtly persuaded that it is unexceptionable, right-thinking, orthodox: the norm.

    An insight into this woman’s political agenda may be gleaned here:

    https://twitter.com/Liz_A_Harris

    That she is employed by the NYT and Forbes, if nothing else, renders those two publications unreliable as a source of fact. I concede that this is a crass example; after all, she is employed to report on the education system in the U.S., and hardly likely to call it out for what it is, since that would shut down her sources. But I think we should all be constantly on our guard against the linguistic tricks used by the propagandist: hence this comment.

    Read More
  24. So the NYtimes wants us to only think about white vs black? There is no other race besides evil whites who have advantages and noble blacks who only have low IQ due to societal factors

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    No, there might be noble Hispanics too.

    But as for evil, only white.

    Unclear on what the NYT think of Far East Asians. Maybe they haven't figured out what to think.

    Asians don't fit the narrative. They're not white so that should make them Good, a disadvantaged minority held back by white racism and privilege.

    But they're not only whomping the blacks and Hispanics, they're doing better than whites.

    Cognitive dissonance sets into the SJW brain at the point. Nothing fits. Their theories fail.

    So NYT just leaves them out completely.
  25. These newspapers have to get on board with the same narrative! It is so confusing, what “supposed to be” is the official one?

    Read More
  26. @Anonymous
    What is the actual percentage of white (European descended) public school students in New York City?

    According to the excel spread sheet from the NYC department of education, in 2011/2012 NYC schools were: Asian 15.1% Black 29.4 Hispanic 40 Other 1 White 14.5. By 2015/2016, what is notable is the fall in Black enrollment: Asian 15.5 Black 27.1 Hispanic 40.5 Other 2.1 White 14.8. I’m not sure how many of the “Whites” are actually Uzbeks, Afghans, Iranians and Arabs though. Language data could probably filter some of it. Among all the boroughs, Brooklyn and Manhattan have seen the biggest gain in White students, while Staten Island and Queens saw the biggest declines.

    http://schools.nyc.gov/AboutUs/schools/data/default.htm

    Read More
  27. Okie says:

    Per wiki 1.1mil students 40% latin 30 %black 10%white15% Asian 5%others
    Per the story these 5k kids admitted to the schools are 50% Asian 30%white roughly 3x their # in the general pop. 20% are from the 70% majority. Roughly 1/3 of their overall #

    1/13th of 1.1 mil is 85k so this is 7% of the grade eligible. Speaking as a grad of a selective hs in a much smaller town, over 30 yrs ago. I worry about the 93% being warehoused and indoctrinated more than the selected. My senior year I took 2 classes outside the selective bubble and saw for the first time since I had been a frosh in us history how much hs is daycare not learning, even in a school that selected the best 150-200 students each year from a 50k student district

    Read More
  28. Buffalo City Honors, which was once ranked as the #1 HS in NYS and in the top 100 nationally was sued by the DOE because of low minority admissions. They adjusted the test, same results. It was proposed to start a second City Honors (City Honors Lite), but in reviewing the test results it would just mean that whites who barely missed the cut off at CH, would dominate the admissions at CH Lite. There really is no fair and equitable test that will make you be smarter than you are. The biggest problem in admitting the unqualified is that they don’t become smarter by sitting next to the smart kids. I tried sitting next to the smart kids in HS, but that was just so I could try to copy off of their tests, works sometimes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Clearly, mandatory brain transplants are the answer. Crack open yellow and white craniums and transfer the gray matter into blacks and browns.

    Or, barring that, force high-performing students to mate with drooling dullards, so that the next generation might rise to the level of mediocrity.

    Steve, have you ever read about that Jewish math professor who offers up his sperm - for free - to any woman who wants it?
    http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/professor-who-donates-sperm-in-city-bathrooms-has-sired-22-kids/

    Some of his "clients" have been women of color ... their offspring might get something of a g boost from Daddy.
  29. @Discordiax
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?"

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn't be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?

    By contrast, helping your gifted class fill out the couple of pages of forms to take the citywide standardized test is pretty easy.

    The guidance counselor or a parent simply gives a child’s name to a program and the program handles the rest.

    There are several programs in New York City designed to send black and Hispanic kids to top private schools, Prep for Prep, A Better Chance, and Breakthrough New York are three that come to mind.

    Most black and Hispanic kids who get into specialized high schools were not in gifted programs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Discordiax
    When I taught 7th grade math in NYC in 1999-2000 (my first year teaching, before I escaped NYC), "gifted" was your top 20% of the grade. So it's close to inconceivable that the kids who make Stuyvesant etc weren't in those classes.
  30. Dr. X says:
    @Anonymous
    What is the actual percentage of white (European descended) public school students in New York City?

    New York City is 33% non-Hispanic white, so the white admission numbers actually aren’t very far off from the percentage of the overall population — particularly when you factor in the anti-white animus in the educational business.

    Read More
  31. @Paul Rain
    Just ridiculous. Looking at those numbers, you can guarantee that white students (particularly actually white white students) were subject to intense discrimination. But it's the natural under performance of the blacks and beans that gets attention.

    There is no discrimination. Fewer whites took the exam, 5070 whites compared to 8345 Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I think that accurately reflects the ethnic composition of NYC nowadays, with the white population below 30%, and those who still live there are probably, generally, either not interested in higher ed or are wealthy enough to go to a private school.

    I should note that the "Asian" presence in NYC is not just Taiwanese and Chinese but also Koreans, Indians of all kinds, and others. Asia's a pretty big place.
  32. @Triumph104
    The guidance counselor or a parent simply gives a child's name to a program and the program handles the rest.

    There are several programs in New York City designed to send black and Hispanic kids to top private schools, Prep for Prep, A Better Chance, and Breakthrough New York are three that come to mind.

    Most black and Hispanic kids who get into specialized high schools were not in gifted programs.

    When I taught 7th grade math in NYC in 1999-2000 (my first year teaching, before I escaped NYC), “gifted” was your top 20% of the grade. So it’s close to inconceivable that the kids who make Stuyvesant etc weren’t in those classes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    That is not true today. The school district changed drastically under Mayor Bloomberg. Gifted students are actually in gifted programs which were specifically put in place to attract whites to the public schools.

    Every winter, thousands of New Yorkers take a standardized test that will determine their future opportunities. Some of them have studied for months, even paid for expensive test prep classes. And after it’s all over, maybe they can go back to playing with blocks, practicing tying their shoelaces, and singing the ABCs.

    These aren’t high school students taking the SAT—they’re children as young as four years old, entering kindergarten through third grade, who take New York City’s Gifted and Talented (G&T) admissions test, hoping for a coveted seat in one of the 103 G&T programs across the city’s public elementary schools. Under the current system, this test score is the sole G&T eligibility criterion.

    The stated purpose of New York City’s G&T programs is to “[support] the educational needs of exceptional students.” But in practice, they amount to a segregated academic track that benefits mostly White, Asian, middle-class students—namely, the students more likely to have educational advantages to begin with.

    ...This school year a majority (70%) of G&T students in New York City’s elementary G&T programs are White and Asian and a mere 23% are Black and Latino. ...

    ... It is commonly known that the reason that G&T programs exist in certain New York City schools is to attract middle-class parents to the public school system and diversify schools. ...

    ... In a report out earlier this year, NYU researchers suggest that the way to diversify G&T enrollments is to screen all preschool children.
     

    https://qz.com/666405/its-time-to-stop-putting-kids-in-separate-gifted-education-programs/
    , @Opinionator
    Why did you leave NYC?
  33. Tiny Duck says:

    Let’s say you’re running a 5 mile race and for the first 4 miles you are forced to wear 10 pound heavy weighted shoes.. Then you are allowed to take them off in the last mile. How would you feel if people yelled at you ‘why haven’t you caught up yet? What’s wrong with you?’

    Segregation and redlining had severe effects that are ongoing. How much of your success is due to the fact that your parents were able to get a good education and provide you a good education (because you weren’t forced to live in a ghetto)?

    The problem isn’t Asians. It is white people getting preferential treatment

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I was homeless three times as a child. I have vivid memories of sleeping on the floorboard of a car (the hump housing the transmisson hurt). From about the age of eight, I cared for myself after school, often into the night and my bedtime, because my mother was working two jobs. That didn't keep her from finding tike to beat the shit out of me, though; the first bloody nose I can remember came at her hands when I was about four.

    I realised in adolescence that by educating myself I could escape the Hell I'd been born into. A National Merit Scholar, I finished nearly my entirely freshman year of college during high school via the Advanced Placement Program: Biology, American History, English, Government – all 5s. I earned an academic scholarship at the state's flagship public university, maintaining it and graduating summa cum laude in under four years, all while working forty hours a week (much more than that in summers, not at cushy interships, but as a pipefitter's helper on construction-sites). When I graduated I still couldn't get work, so I enlisted in the United States' Navy. All that while, even into my time as an undergraduate, I was defending myself against intermittent violent assaults by Negroes given every break and every benefit of the doubt in the schools simply for being Negroes. Special programs over summers to prepare them, designated tutors and mentors. Scholarships and housing set aside just for them.

    Three times in my adult life setbacks such as layoffs and pay-cuts led to my being homeless again. Once I slept on sidewalks. Another time I was blessed to have a friend's couch. The last time I slept in a tent, and later, a van.

    I ultimately earned two graduate degrees and bought a house.

    You know what I didn't do? I never bitched about the colour of my skin, my familial background, and how poor I was.

    I don't write this to brag; it's not even a particularly impressive life in any event. Any number of people reading it have had crazier lives. I write it to illustrate the cry of But Poverty! is horseshit.

    They wuz kangz anyway; that legacy surely equips then to overcome We wuz slaves.

    They were slaves nearly two centuries ago; they've been free longer than Russia's serfs.
    , @MadDog
    Why then didn't Africans have written languages? There were no great Universities there. No libraries. Anything modern in Africa was designed by white men.

    Tiny Duck, how do you explain the same behavioral patterns between recent African immigrants in Europe and African Americans here? Europe has the exact same academic and disciplinary problems with their Africans. As does Toronto!

    Genetics matter.
  34. Ivy says:
    @mukat
    1.3% are Multiracial - 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she 'won' - her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor - both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial - do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the 'multiracial' box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of 'Pocohantas'.

    Tiger Moms.
    Bonobo Moms.
    One of those is not like the other.
    And more likely to be single.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CCZ
    "Tool Use Is 'Innate' In Chimpanzees But Not Bonobos, Their Closest Evolutionary Relative"

    "The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use...nor did social opportunities."

    Chimpanzees and bonobos are the two closest living relatives of the human species - the ultimate tool-using ape. Yet, despite being so closely related on the evolutionary tree, wild chimpanzees and bonobos differ hugely in the way they use tools.

    Chimpanzees show the most diverse range of tool use outside of humans. For example, chimpanzees use sticks to 'fish' for ants and termites, stones to crack nuts, as well as tools for grooming and communication. Bonobos rarely use tools and never to forage for food.

    Tool use is 'innate' in chimpanzees but not bonobos, their closest evolutionary relative

    They also investigated the innate propensity for object manipulation in young apes, regardless of whether said object was deployed as a 'tool' - the first wild inter-species comparison of its kind.

    The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use. From nut trees to ant nests, stones to shrubs, the bonobos had access to as many tools and promising foraging opportunities in their stomping ground as the chimpanzees.

    Nor did social opportunities. In fact, young bonobos spent more time with their mothers, and had more individuals in close proximity for more time whilst feeding than young chimpanzees. Young bonobos also had more social partners than young chimpanzees.

    However, immature chimpanzees manipulated and played a lot more with objects than bonobos, and played with objects on their own. This was a difference already visible in very young individuals, says Koops. In fact, she says this is the first evidence for a species difference in the innate predisposition for tool use in our closest evolutionary cousins.

    "Chimpanzees are object-oriented, in a way that bonobos are not," said Koops, who conducted the work at Cambridge University's Division of Biological Anthropology and at Zurich University's Anthropological Institute and Museum.

    "Given the close evolutionary relationship between these two species and humans, insights into the tool use difference between chimpanzees and bonobos can help us identify the conditions that drove the evolution of human technology.

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-06-tool-innate-chimpanzees-bonobos-closest.html#jCp

     

    , @40 Acres and A Kardashian
    Hey, now!
  35. Yak-15 says:

    Only environment matters. See, Asians are a model minority and conform to the stereotype created for them by the white supremacists.

    Blacks are 15 pct of global population but make up zero percent awarded the Nobel prize in physics.

    Read More
  36. Jack D says:

    Part of the Asian dominance in admissions is just because they are pretty smart, but part of it is because (even before the city began its own test prep programs) they had a well developed cram system – cram schools, sample tests, etc. and motivated tiger moms who would make sure that their kids were prepped. Kids do what their peers do so if you see all of your Asian buddies at cram school it seems normal and maybe even fun. Even if you are a fairly bright black (or white) kid, you are not networked into this whole system-gaming setup* and even if you know that it exists you and your parents are not interested in your devoting countless hours of time and effort to participating in it. Or “maybe they just want it more”.

    *note that there is no clear line between “gaming the system” and “working really hard and studying a lot”. Most Asians are results-oriented people and don’t tie themselves up in knots worrying about whether they have crossed some invisible line in accomplishing their goal (although they do worry about getting caught). If you have to put a little melamine in the baby formula to get it to test out for protein content, well you gotta to what you gotta do. So sometimes the stuff that they do (studying) meets Western ethical standards and could not be called “cheating” and sometimes (sending someone else to take the test for you, getting advance copies of the tests, etc.) it doesn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Technite78

    Kids do what their peers do so if you see all of your Asian buddies at cram school it seems normal and maybe even fun.
     
    Exactly. My "neighborhood" peer group (working class whites) wasn't as impressed by good grades as athletic ability. My grade school peer group (working class whites with high standardized test scores) was more impressed, but still thought it slightly uncool to have the highest grades in the class. My high school peer group (Brooklyn Tech) was far more interested in scholastic achievement, both for its own sake, and for admission into college.

    And of course, kids are subject to peer pressure...

    , @Johann Ricke
    NYC schools apparently offer free test prep programs. The following is a sample of the kind of thing they offer:

    The summer after sixth grade, Riyan spent most days at a small storefront “cram school,” memorizing surface area and volume formulas.
     
    Seems to me that the issue isn't test prep - it's schools that don't teach basic math skills. Either the curriculum is way slack, or it's being dumbed down for kids who aren't smart enough to hack it. Maybe tracking* is the solution.

    * This feeds into a pet peeve of mine. It's ridiculous to have so-called "gifted" programs. Mozart was gifted. Beethoven was gifted. 1 out of 20 kids isn't gifted. The number is more like 1 in 2 million. Above average kids aren't gifted - they're just above average. We should have tracking programs so everyone can learn at his optimal speed and skip the exaggerated verbiage re above average kids.
    , @Twinkie

    Western ethical standards
     
    You mean like this? http://abcnews.go.com/International/honest-japanese-return-78-million-cash-found-quake/story?id=14322940

    But then, these people aren't really Asian, are they? Just honorary whites... you know, because they were just aping white behavior, being that they are soulless automatons who can't do abstract thinking or Western ethics and all that.
  37. @Discordiax
    When I taught 7th grade math in NYC in 1999-2000 (my first year teaching, before I escaped NYC), "gifted" was your top 20% of the grade. So it's close to inconceivable that the kids who make Stuyvesant etc weren't in those classes.

    That is not true today. The school district changed drastically under Mayor Bloomberg. Gifted students are actually in gifted programs which were specifically put in place to attract whites to the public schools.

    Every winter, thousands of New Yorkers take a standardized test that will determine their future opportunities. Some of them have studied for months, even paid for expensive test prep classes. And after it’s all over, maybe they can go back to playing with blocks, practicing tying their shoelaces, and singing the ABCs.

    These aren’t high school students taking the SAT—they’re children as young as four years old, entering kindergarten through third grade, who take New York City’s Gifted and Talented (G&T) admissions test, hoping for a coveted seat in one of the 103 G&T programs across the city’s public elementary schools. Under the current system, this test score is the sole G&T eligibility criterion.

    The stated purpose of New York City’s G&T programs is to “[support] the educational needs of exceptional students.” But in practice, they amount to a segregated academic track that benefits mostly White, Asian, middle-class students—namely, the students more likely to have educational advantages to begin with.

    …This school year a majority (70%) of G&T students in New York City’s elementary G&T programs are White and Asian and a mere 23% are Black and Latino. …

    … It is commonly known that the reason that G&T programs exist in certain New York City schools is to attract middle-class parents to the public school system and diversify schools. …

    … In a report out earlier this year, NYU researchers suggest that the way to diversify G&T enrollments is to screen all preschool children.

    https://qz.com/666405/its-time-to-stop-putting-kids-in-separate-gifted-education-programs/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Discordiax
    Ah. Thanks, I've been out of the NYC ed loop.

    I think my point stands though--your standard-issue middle school guidance counselor is going to be able to grab their top 10-25% scoring kids and get them signed up for the elite high school entrance exam.

    Knowing who to call to get a kid a scholarship at Snooty Old Prep is a different challenge.
    , @Bill Jones
    In the real world, of course, we should be putting more money into the smart fucks than the morons.
  38. @Triumph104
    That is not true today. The school district changed drastically under Mayor Bloomberg. Gifted students are actually in gifted programs which were specifically put in place to attract whites to the public schools.

    Every winter, thousands of New Yorkers take a standardized test that will determine their future opportunities. Some of them have studied for months, even paid for expensive test prep classes. And after it’s all over, maybe they can go back to playing with blocks, practicing tying their shoelaces, and singing the ABCs.

    These aren’t high school students taking the SAT—they’re children as young as four years old, entering kindergarten through third grade, who take New York City’s Gifted and Talented (G&T) admissions test, hoping for a coveted seat in one of the 103 G&T programs across the city’s public elementary schools. Under the current system, this test score is the sole G&T eligibility criterion.

    The stated purpose of New York City’s G&T programs is to “[support] the educational needs of exceptional students.” But in practice, they amount to a segregated academic track that benefits mostly White, Asian, middle-class students—namely, the students more likely to have educational advantages to begin with.

    ...This school year a majority (70%) of G&T students in New York City’s elementary G&T programs are White and Asian and a mere 23% are Black and Latino. ...

    ... It is commonly known that the reason that G&T programs exist in certain New York City schools is to attract middle-class parents to the public school system and diversify schools. ...

    ... In a report out earlier this year, NYU researchers suggest that the way to diversify G&T enrollments is to screen all preschool children.
     

    https://qz.com/666405/its-time-to-stop-putting-kids-in-separate-gifted-education-programs/

    Ah. Thanks, I’ve been out of the NYC ed loop.

    I think my point stands though–your standard-issue middle school guidance counselor is going to be able to grab their top 10-25% scoring kids and get them signed up for the elite high school entrance exam.

    Knowing who to call to get a kid a scholarship at Snooty Old Prep is a different challenge.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    You do make sense. Instead, New York City Department of Education is putting 100% of their effort and millions of dollars into identifying and tutoring low-income students to get them into a specialized high school. Of course most of these low-income kids are white and Asian. The district has a 22-month program called DREAM; only 6% of the kids are black and Hispanic yet they comprise 26% of the black and Hispanic kids who get an offer.

    There may be an odd guidance counselor here and there who is encouraging middle-class black and Hispanic kids to sign up for the SHSAT, otherwise they are ignored.
  39. @mukat
    1.3% are Multiracial - 1/2 Asian kids?

    BTW, remember when the Tiger Mother got her kid into Harvard? She and everyone else assumed that she 'won' - her methods succeeded. But what about the legacy factor - both she and her husband are HLS grads. Further, there is a strong legacy-like bias in favor of the kids of peer faculty members (Harvard, Yale, etc.)

    No one stopped to ponder whether the kid got in DESPITE the Tiger Mother preparation that Admissions personnel know well and despise.

    Back to multiracial - do 1/2 Asian kids like those of Tiger Mom and Mensch Dad defeat the Asian admissions quota by checking the 'multiracial' box? Do they then get an advantage over Whites as well? Shades of 'Pocohantas'.

    Tiger Mom has a B.A. and a J.D. from Harvard. Eagle Dad has a B.A. from Princeton and a J.D. from Harvard. But more importantly, both are famous Yale Law faculty members. Tiger Mom was the author of the bestseller World on Fire. Eagle Dad is one of the nation’s leading scholars of criminal and constitutional law. It’s hard to imagine a world in which the cubs didn’t end up at elite schools, even if they hadn’t turned out quite as sharp as mom and dad. I doubt tiger mom tactics or marking “multiracial” on the form had much to do with it. They had elite genes, attended an elite high school with a peer group made up of other faculty children, and had famous parents with lots of legacy points.

    Read More
  40. I graduated from Brooklyn Tech in 1978… the demographic breakdown back then was similar (in terms of over-representation by Asians and Whites).

    But that was the overall student body… Tech allows you to “specialize” starting in your junior year; you get to choose a “major” which determines most of your elective course work. The generic college-prep course was even more heavily skewed Asian, but the technical courses were far more reflective of the city’s demographics.

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  41. A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.

    “note that there is no clear line between “gaming the system” and “working really hard and studying a lot”.”

    Actually there is, but it’s one people don’t like to acknowledge. Working really hard and studying a lot is a great idea if you are actually better informed, erudite, impressive in the depth and breadth of your knowledge. That’s how European cultures think.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than “will this be on the test”?

    And so, in their own way, Asians become peers that white parents don’t want their kids to have.

    Finally, best I can tell, the test is designed to advantage Asians. A kid who gets a near perfect score on math but below average in verbal will make the cut off. A kid who gets near perfect scores in both won’t. Steve, I know you wrote about this back in 2012. I have been searching endlessly and can find no evidence that they have changed their test scores. And I can find no mention of the man who uncovered it. All the cites go back to the 2005 article. But the cites continue through 2014. I’ve seen no mention of it being disproved or changed.

    This isn’t only a slight advantage to Asians. It’s a huge advantage. And I’m shocked that news of it is basically blanked out these days.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Asians care only about how they do on tests.
     
    If that was indeed true, we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs. But if someone has extensive recollection, reference materials, and a strong mathematical underpinning, then he will be capable of doing well on a test for programming, and he will do well at the actual coding as well.

    Hell, I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues. I don't think I was particularly brighter - perhaps even dimmer - but quantity has its own quality.

    Jack D's comments were appropriate.
    , @Anon7
    "Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites."

    This kind of sticks in my craw. My son enjoyed science and math and so signed up for the Science Olympiad team in his high school. Since we live in a college town, the kids on the team were almost all Asian.

    This didn't bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student's homes for the team, and my son wasn't invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn't invited because he is white.

    I can imagine white parents not wanting to send their kids to an Asian-dominated school.
    , @Rod1963
    What you described is credentialism which is the defacto religion of modern China and now of the U.S.

    Asians are just more overt about it.

    Look lots of students in general aren't really interested in subjects, they just want to get it over with and get their degree(credential) which opens the proper doors for them. The more prestigious school you graduate from the more doors that it opens. It can mean the difference between a life time sinecure at AEI or working at a generic corporate giant in a Herman-Miller cube farm.

    This is why a lot folks with four year degrees are so damn ignorant outside their narrow specialty, They memorize just enough to pass the tests then quickly forget about the subject matter.

    And lets be clear. Companies today just want "grinders" who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn't complain and is disposable.

    And that's considered to be a success in the U.S. you attend college, pile up a shit load of student debt, graduate, get a gig as a drone in a soul sucking cube farm that that eats at your physical and mental health while doing meaningless work. All the while wondering when your job gets off-shored. Then to compensate for this shit existence, you buy a expensive car to show off, maybe buy a bigger tract home than you can afford. All of which just makes you a even bigger wage slave.

    To top it off, you know you'll have to work until you die, but you know with the rampant age discrimination you'll be fired before 50 - probably by age 40. You'll be lucky to get a part time gig at a big box store as a greeter.

    Not much of a bargain if you ask me.
    , @Twinkie

    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.
     
    Could you please clarify your numbers? Are you saying that: a few years ago, with equal number of white/asian students, twice as many Asians took the specialized high school tests as whites did ("2:1 Asian")? Or are you saying that twice as many whites tested for the schools as Asians did? I need you to use your awesome white verbal skills and make the sentence clearer for my verbally-deficient Asian brain.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.
     
    Because of your blind hatred of Asians, you are confusing race with class here. Specialized high schools such as Bronx High and (my alma mater) Stuyvesant, even back some thirty plus years ago when I attended, were not uppercrust white magnets. Ever since their admissions became merit-based, they have been magnets for poor, but smart pupils, which in NYC usually meant immigrant children (plus some "ethnic" whites, usually Jews, occasionally Irish-Italian). Unless the parents had a particularly egalitarian ethos or ideology, wealthy, established white parents sent their progeny to posh prep schools, not Brooklyn Tech.

    What's happened over the last three decades or so has been that the white population in NYC has turned increasingly uppercrust, with a corresponding decline in the percentages of poor and lower middle class whites. Meanwhile, due to increasing Chinese and Indian immigration, the number of lower and middle class (but cognitively better off) "Asian" students has exploded. That explains the increasing Asianization of these public schools rather than some race-based white exodus away from Asian students*. Indeed, these specialized schools still boast sizable contingents of immigrant *whites* whose demographic profiles are similar to those of Asian immigrants, i.e. high IQ, but low socio-economic status. Often they are Russians or Russian Jews.

    In other words, this is in the main a class-based development in the guise of a racial one. High status, high wealth Asian parents in NYC don't send their children to the public specialized schools either - they send their kids to prep schools as their white counterparts do. Most of these prep schools are already 15-20% Asian.

    *To the extent that there is white exodus, it is that middle class whites no longer find NYC affordable. But this is the case of parents leaving the city and taking their kids with them, rather than middle class white parents taking children out of the public schools and putting them in private schools to avoid Asians while still staying in the city.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than “will this be on the test”?
     
    This is a breathtakingly obtuse or deceptive statement. Truly audacious (chutzpah!) in its mendacity and scale of claim (if you want to lie, lie big?).

    My (white) wife and I are multiple Ivy alumns and have been interviewing high school students for the past quarter century or so. Regardless of race, almost all high school students demonstrate these credentialist deficiencies combined with Establishment moral platitudes. Among hundreds my wife and I interviewed over the years, consistently the one group of students who have demonstrated desire for learning in the loftiest sense of word has been homeschooled children. But then we know what your view of homeschooling and homeschooling parents is, don't we? "Fools" is one epithet you used.

    Now, instead of a clearly hyperbolic and unintelligent statement such as "Asians care only about how they do on tests," you were to say that credentialism appears to be a stronger force in East Asian cultures, I might agree. But even then it is within the realm of the malleable. For example, credentialism is over-the-top in still-developing China, which is a mercantilist dog-eat-dog world (literally and figuratively). But in the more established Japan, on the other hand, credentialism is much weaker or ameliorated. For example, the people who actually run Japan - the bureaucratic class - is famously made up of almost fetishtic hobbyists - it's easy to run into a Japanese bureaucrat in, say, the ministry of foreign affairs, who is obsessed with the Blues, Judo or English gardening, that belie the stereotype of grade-fixated Asian nerds (South Korea is in-between; now that it is a wealthy country with leisure, kids such as this - i.e. those who show interests in things other than, or in addition to, academic excellence is becoming less unusual: https://youtu.be/WfTZ5iIUn4s).
  42. @Discordiax
    Ah. Thanks, I've been out of the NYC ed loop.

    I think my point stands though--your standard-issue middle school guidance counselor is going to be able to grab their top 10-25% scoring kids and get them signed up for the elite high school entrance exam.

    Knowing who to call to get a kid a scholarship at Snooty Old Prep is a different challenge.

    You do make sense. Instead, New York City Department of Education is putting 100% of their effort and millions of dollars into identifying and tutoring low-income students to get them into a specialized high school. Of course most of these low-income kids are white and Asian. The district has a 22-month program called DREAM; only 6% of the kids are black and Hispanic yet they comprise 26% of the black and Hispanic kids who get an offer.

    There may be an odd guidance counselor here and there who is encouraging middle-class black and Hispanic kids to sign up for the SHSAT, otherwise they are ignored.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    I suspect the few blacks & Hispanics are either from an immigrant background (the NYT ran a story on a black Stuy HS student she was from Jamaica) or they're biracial like the mayor's son that went to Brooklyn Tech.

    I make this point to point out that they are probably self-motivated..
  43. eah says:

    Don’t Mention…

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    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool

    Test meant to screen teachers in New York state instead weeded out minorities.
     
    False dichotomy. The NYT is a tour de force in weaponizing fallacies.
  44. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Mass immigration from Asia is a just another kind of disaster for America. Whites are being demographically boiled like frogs and the fading perception of affordability is creeping up through the classes even into the Upper West Side.

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  45. At what point can we finally dispense with the idea that there are some great reserves of intellectual talent that are being overlooked?

    For all of its faults, one thing our educational system does pretty darn well is give smart kids lots of chances to distinguish themselves. If anything, the biases are heavily weighted in making the opposite error – funneling kids into college prep who really won’t get a lot out of it.

    Is it perfect? No. Some kids who may have had ivy-league potential end up at flagship state schools near where they live, but that’s hardly a tragedy.

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  46. Jimi says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    I work in Tribeca the NYC neighborhood Stuyvesant High School is located. Between 3:30 ad 4PM the streets are flooded with Asian, Indian, and a few White kids walking to the train station to go home.

    They’re exactly as you would imagine. Lots of nerdy teens who look too young to be teenagers. They’re conversations revolve around how to please their immigrant parents who have high ambitions for their children.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jimi
    Also I suspect the Black kids at these schools are from the high achieving Caribbean Black middle class of NY not from the historical African American community.
    , @unam
    oh no !! This sounds terrible. They're going to ruin this country when they grow up !!!
  47. Jimi says:
    @Jimi
    I work in Tribeca the NYC neighborhood Stuyvesant High School is located. Between 3:30 ad 4PM the streets are flooded with Asian, Indian, and a few White kids walking to the train station to go home.

    They're exactly as you would imagine. Lots of nerdy teens who look too young to be teenagers. They're conversations revolve around how to please their immigrant parents who have high ambitions for their children.

    Also I suspect the Black kids at these schools are from the high achieving Caribbean Black middle class of NY not from the historical African American community.

    Read More
  48. Forbes says:
    @Paul Rain
    Just ridiculous. Looking at those numbers, you can guarantee that white students (particularly actually white white students) were subject to intense discrimination. But it's the natural under performance of the blacks and beans that gets attention.

    White student population is 14%, while whites offered slots was 28%.

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  49. @education realist
    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.

    "note that there is no clear line between “gaming the system” and “working really hard and studying a lot”."

    Actually there is, but it's one people don't like to acknowledge. Working really hard and studying a lot is a great idea if you are actually better informed, erudite, impressive in the depth and breadth of your knowledge. That's how European cultures think.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than "will this be on the test"?

    And so, in their own way, Asians become peers that white parents don't want their kids to have.

    Finally, best I can tell, the test is designed to advantage Asians. A kid who gets a near perfect score on math but below average in verbal will make the cut off. A kid who gets near perfect scores in both won't. Steve, I know you wrote about this back in 2012. I have been searching endlessly and can find no evidence that they have changed their test scores. And I can find no mention of the man who uncovered it. All the cites go back to the 2005 article. But the cites continue through 2014. I've seen no mention of it being disproved or changed.

    This isn't only a slight advantage to Asians. It's a huge advantage. And I'm shocked that news of it is basically blanked out these days.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests.

    If that was indeed true, we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs. But if someone has extensive recollection, reference materials, and a strong mathematical underpinning, then he will be capable of doing well on a test for programming, and he will do well at the actual coding as well.

    Hell, I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues. I don’t think I was particularly brighter – perhaps even dimmer – but quantity has its own quality.

    Jack D’s comments were appropriate.

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    • Replies: @grey enlightenment2
    education realist uses that same tired argument every time
    , @Autochthon
    I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues.
     This behaviour by invading Orientals is no different than that of invading mestizoids who will work for $2.00 an hour; decreasing the wage and increasing the hours are mathematically equivalent: both are a race to the bottom. (The invaders living twenty to a home are another mathematical equivalence.)
    , @27 year old
    Hey bro, we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie, we don't really need another asian pride worldwide shill around here
  50. @Jack D
    Part of the Asian dominance in admissions is just because they are pretty smart, but part of it is because (even before the city began its own test prep programs) they had a well developed cram system - cram schools, sample tests, etc. and motivated tiger moms who would make sure that their kids were prepped. Kids do what their peers do so if you see all of your Asian buddies at cram school it seems normal and maybe even fun. Even if you are a fairly bright black (or white) kid, you are not networked into this whole system-gaming setup* and even if you know that it exists you and your parents are not interested in your devoting countless hours of time and effort to participating in it. Or "maybe they just want it more".

    *note that there is no clear line between "gaming the system" and "working really hard and studying a lot". Most Asians are results-oriented people and don't tie themselves up in knots worrying about whether they have crossed some invisible line in accomplishing their goal (although they do worry about getting caught). If you have to put a little melamine in the baby formula to get it to test out for protein content, well you gotta to what you gotta do. So sometimes the stuff that they do (studying) meets Western ethical standards and could not be called "cheating" and sometimes (sending someone else to take the test for you, getting advance copies of the tests, etc.) it doesn't.

    Kids do what their peers do so if you see all of your Asian buddies at cram school it seems normal and maybe even fun.

    Exactly. My “neighborhood” peer group (working class whites) wasn’t as impressed by good grades as athletic ability. My grade school peer group (working class whites with high standardized test scores) was more impressed, but still thought it slightly uncool to have the highest grades in the class. My high school peer group (Brooklyn Tech) was far more interested in scholastic achievement, both for its own sake, and for admission into college.

    And of course, kids are subject to peer pressure…

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  51. Peterike says:

    I want to know how many of the kids at these schools are non-citizens.

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  52. Slightly OT: Harvard Law to begin accepting GRE scores in addition to LSAT scores for admission:

    http://m.startribune.com/harvard-law-to-begin-accepting-gre-scores-not-just-the-lsat/415809514/

    How many readers will misread “GRE” (the pumped-up SAT-style grad school admissions test most non-law school/LSAT, non-medschool/MCAT accept) is “GED” and flood Harvard law admissions?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Wow. The debunking of the law school scam has finally come home to roost even at Harvard, and hilarity is ensuing.

    The GRE is not at all comparable to the LSAT.
  53. @Buffalo Joe
    Buffalo City Honors, which was once ranked as the #1 HS in NYS and in the top 100 nationally was sued by the DOE because of low minority admissions. They adjusted the test, same results. It was proposed to start a second City Honors (City Honors Lite), but in reviewing the test results it would just mean that whites who barely missed the cut off at CH, would dominate the admissions at CH Lite. There really is no fair and equitable test that will make you be smarter than you are. The biggest problem in admitting the unqualified is that they don't become smarter by sitting next to the smart kids. I tried sitting next to the smart kids in HS, but that was just so I could try to copy off of their tests, works sometimes.

    Clearly, mandatory brain transplants are the answer. Crack open yellow and white craniums and transfer the gray matter into blacks and browns.

    Or, barring that, force high-performing students to mate with drooling dullards, so that the next generation might rise to the level of mediocrity.

    Steve, have you ever read about that Jewish math professor who offers up his sperm – for free – to any woman who wants it?

    http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/professor-who-donates-sperm-in-city-bathrooms-has-sired-22-kids/

    Some of his “clients” have been women of color … their offspring might get something of a g boost from Daddy.

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Stan, Makes me laugh, as I think about the line from "Young Frankenstein" and the brain from Abby Normal.
    , @SFG
    They apparently managed to sue him for child support, successfully. Warning for any of you guys thinking of ah, aiding eugenics by sperm donation...
  54. SPMoore8 says:
    @Triumph104
    There is no discrimination. Fewer whites took the exam, 5070 whites compared to 8345 Asians.

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Screen-Shot-2017-03-08-at-2.21.38-PM.png

    I think that accurately reflects the ethnic composition of NYC nowadays, with the white population below 30%, and those who still live there are probably, generally, either not interested in higher ed or are wealthy enough to go to a private school.

    I should note that the “Asian” presence in NYC is not just Taiwanese and Chinese but also Koreans, Indians of all kinds, and others. Asia’s a pretty big place.

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    "I think that accurately reflects the ethnic composition of NYC nowadays, with the white population below 30%, and those who still live there are probably, generally, either not interested in higher ed or are wealthy enough to go to a private school."

    A definitely non-trivial percentage of school-age white children in NYC are Orthodox or Hasidic and attend religious schools.
  55. Rod1963 says:
    @Paul Rain
    Just ridiculous. Looking at those numbers, you can guarantee that white students (particularly actually white white students) were subject to intense discrimination. But it's the natural under performance of the blacks and beans that gets attention.

    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn’t make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    You're wrong. In NYC Asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks.


    http://www.nyc.gov/html/ceo/html/poverty/lookup.shtml
    , @Stan Adams

    IQ doesn’t make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.
     
    Yep.

    We don't need to import a new overclass any more than we need to import a new underclass.
    , @phil
    Some HBDers do not mind high-IQ, non-white immigrants. Other HBDers believe that thorough-going ethnic diversity leads to a more fractious society, even if the immigrants are hard-working and have high IQs.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Rod, very interesting thought about importing monied Chinese. Do any of our Canadian posters know if this is true in Vancouver schools, as Vancouver had a huge influx of wealthy Chinese from Hong Kong.
    , @Opinionator
    A troubling commentary.
    , @Anonymous
    I think many people here have problems with importing a new elite. Further, it creates a brain drain from the countries they leave.
  56. guest says:
    @El Dato
    It's a conspiracy! Why won't the dice roll right?

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2016/06/09/getting-black-and-hispanic-students-into-specialized-schools-remains-a-challenge-even-for-programs-designed-to-help/

    One way the city is trying to enroll more black and Hispanic students at its elite specialized high schools is by expanding a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students get into those schools — illustrating the challenge of boosting black and Hispanic enrollment at those most-competitive schools.

    The city will expand the Discovery program, which extends admission to some students who score just below the admissions cutoff and who complete summer coursework. Officials announced the expansion as part of a larger push to increase diversity in the specialized high schools on Thursday. The existing Discovery program at Brooklyn Technical School will expand, and a new program will begin at the High School of American Studies at Lehman College, the smallest of the eight schools.

    Most of the students in the Discovery program, though, are not black or Hispanic. And as enrollment for summer 2016 grows — to 220 students from 120 last summer — its share of black and Hispanic students is declining. In addition, two of the top specialized schools simply choose not to participate in the program.
     

    The challenge of boosting blah, blah, blah. Reminds me of the sitcom How I Met Your Mother, in which the childish, possibly psychotic pick-up artist character, Barney, would grasp at some throw-away line from his friends and say, “Challenge accepted!” Meaning 9 times out of 10 he’d have to try to pick up girls with some sort of ridiculous handicap, like wearing overalls, completely unintended by the person who spoke the line that set him off.

    Whoever told these people they had to boost the enrollment of blacks and browns, to which they said “Challenge accepted!” They want us to think, I presume, the challenge has been laid down by a combination of the innate justice of statistical representation of the racial make-up of the population at large anywhere and everywhere in society plus the need to counteract the evil racism that keeps it from happening. But really it’s just their childishness and psychopathology. They need jobs (managing the Gap, acting against the Gap, studying the Gap, reporting on the Gap, etc.), and the Gap perpetually provides one.

    Here’s a plan: how about we give all the current elite schools over to the underrepresented. They can have them. You can even rename them after Obama and Cesar Chavez, or whatever. Then we give new schools to whites and Asians. Together or separately, whatever they prefer. Everyone’s happy.

    Come on, you know that’s where we’re headed. (Well, that or war.)

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    I never could get into that show ... every time "Barney" appeared on screen, my gaydar started blaring like an air horn. This was even before he admitted it publicly.

    (Neil Patrick Harris came out a year or so after HIMYM debuted.)
  57. George says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    “If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate”

    Those schools are not as big as the public schools. Graduation is probably like 100 per school. So if you figure 10 blacks get scholarships at each that is just 40 individuals. I suspect the kid has to be more than smart, even if black, to get a scholarship.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    I'd guess that private schools in NYC in search of black students are less concerned about academics. As long as the black child is well behaved, reasonably bright and from the requisite disadvantaged background they'll take them.

    My cousin's husband (he's black as am I) went to Sidwell Friends on scholarship through the intervention of a white mentor. He's no genius by any means but he does quite well for himself today.
    , @Triumph104
    Several dozen private schools offer scholarships, not just the three he mentioned. Only 194 black kids received an offer to a specialized high school (some of the black test takers are already in private school). Private schools can take in the top half of scorers with no problem.

    Prep for Prep currently has over 700 kids in 50 or 60 different schools. At least a third of the 700 are black and Prep for Prep isn't the only program placing scholarship students.

    http://www.prepforprep.org/podium/default.aspx?t=126418

    Former Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick went to boarding school through A Better Chance.

    http://abetterchance.org/abetterchance.aspx?pgID=868

    This kid turned down Stuyvesant to go to boarding school, Northfield Mount Hermon, in MA through the program Breakthrough New York. He was one of 7 black kids who got into Stuyvesant that year.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-whiz-kid-bypasses-top-city-school-mass-academy-article-1.2057716
  58. @Daniel Chieh

    Asians care only about how they do on tests.
     
    If that was indeed true, we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs. But if someone has extensive recollection, reference materials, and a strong mathematical underpinning, then he will be capable of doing well on a test for programming, and he will do well at the actual coding as well.

    Hell, I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues. I don't think I was particularly brighter - perhaps even dimmer - but quantity has its own quality.

    Jack D's comments were appropriate.

    education realist uses that same tired argument every time

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  59. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-10/millions-venezuelans-try-flee-country-they-run-problem

    Anti-American welfare-socialist freeloaders voted for Chavez and Maduro as one big F-you to the US.

    They sunk the economy, and now they all wanna flee the mess they created.
    Most would come to the US if given a chance.

    Read More
  60. CCZ says:
    @Ivy
    Tiger Moms.
    Bonobo Moms.
    One of those is not like the other.
    And more likely to be single.

    “Tool Use Is ‘Innate’ In Chimpanzees But Not Bonobos, Their Closest Evolutionary Relative”

    “The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use…nor did social opportunities.”

    Chimpanzees and bonobos are the two closest living relatives of the human species – the ultimate tool-using ape. Yet, despite being so closely related on the evolutionary tree, wild chimpanzees and bonobos differ hugely in the way they use tools.

    Chimpanzees show the most diverse range of tool use outside of humans. For example, chimpanzees use sticks to ‘fish’ for ants and termites, stones to crack nuts, as well as tools for grooming and communication. Bonobos rarely use tools and never to forage for food.

    Tool use is ‘innate’ in chimpanzees but not bonobos, their closest evolutionary relative

    They also investigated the innate propensity for object manipulation in young apes, regardless of whether said object was deployed as a ‘tool’ – the first wild inter-species comparison of its kind.

    The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use. From nut trees to ant nests, stones to shrubs, the bonobos had access to as many tools and promising foraging opportunities in their stomping ground as the chimpanzees.

    Nor did social opportunities. In fact, young bonobos spent more time with their mothers, and had more individuals in close proximity for more time whilst feeding than young chimpanzees. Young bonobos also had more social partners than young chimpanzees.

    However, immature chimpanzees manipulated and played a lot more with objects than bonobos, and played with objects on their own. This was a difference already visible in very young individuals, says Koops. In fact, she says this is the first evidence for a species difference in the innate predisposition for tool use in our closest evolutionary cousins.

    “Chimpanzees are object-oriented, in a way that bonobos are not,” said Koops, who conducted the work at Cambridge University’s Division of Biological Anthropology and at Zurich University’s Anthropological Institute and Museum.

    “Given the close evolutionary relationship between these two species and humans, insights into the tool use difference between chimpanzees and bonobos can help us identify the conditions that drove the evolution of human technology.

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-06-tool-innate-chimpanzees-bonobos-closest.html#jCp

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    And one of them is female-dominated. The hilarity almost writes itself.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    CCZ, Sea otters, so adorable, use rocks as anvil and hammer to crack open shellfish, and I would rather have sea otters living down the street than Bonobos.
  61. Anon7 says:
    @education realist
    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.

    "note that there is no clear line between “gaming the system” and “working really hard and studying a lot”."

    Actually there is, but it's one people don't like to acknowledge. Working really hard and studying a lot is a great idea if you are actually better informed, erudite, impressive in the depth and breadth of your knowledge. That's how European cultures think.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than "will this be on the test"?

    And so, in their own way, Asians become peers that white parents don't want their kids to have.

    Finally, best I can tell, the test is designed to advantage Asians. A kid who gets a near perfect score on math but below average in verbal will make the cut off. A kid who gets near perfect scores in both won't. Steve, I know you wrote about this back in 2012. I have been searching endlessly and can find no evidence that they have changed their test scores. And I can find no mention of the man who uncovered it. All the cites go back to the 2005 article. But the cites continue through 2014. I've seen no mention of it being disproved or changed.

    This isn't only a slight advantage to Asians. It's a huge advantage. And I'm shocked that news of it is basically blanked out these days.

    “Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.”

    This kind of sticks in my craw. My son enjoyed science and math and so signed up for the Science Olympiad team in his high school. Since we live in a college town, the kids on the team were almost all Asian.

    This didn’t bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student’s homes for the team, and my son wasn’t invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn’t invited because he is white.

    I can imagine white parents not wanting to send their kids to an Asian-dominated school.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Happened to me as well. We put my son in a preschool and accidentally put him in the class with Indian and Paki Muslims. He was the only white boy out of 20 kids. He came home and said, "I think they all have birthday parties but I never get invited."
    , @Frau Katze
    Don't consider a move to Vancouver, BC, in that case.

    We're swamped. My sister and I disagree: I prefer the Asians over blacks and Muslims.

    She would like things to be the same as when we grew up there.

    I see it as a case of seeing a positive side. You're not likely to see Chinese rioting like those Muslim scum in Rotterdam.

    By driving up the price of real estate, maybe the Chinese will keep all but the richest Muslims out (neither of us lives in Vancouver now. The place is far too crowded. We're in smaller BC cities.)
    , @Buffalo Joe
    Anon 7, If it makes you feel better the Mexican kids would have invited him to their birthday parties, but probably use him as a piñata.
    , @Daniel H
    >>This didn’t bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student’s homes for the team, and my son wasn’t invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn’t invited because he is white.

    This is just the beginning of the Asians flexing their muscles. Get used to it. That said, I do hope that Asians destroy the Ivy league. No other institution in America needs to be cut off at the knees more than the Ivys. Trump should go after his enemies where it really hurts. Initiate a department of Justice suit against all the Ivys for illegal discrimination against Asian applicants. You know, what Conan said. Let's go for the good in life.
  62. “we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. ”

    Some would say that Asians are overrepresented in the knowledge industry because American business leaders like cheap labor.

    And, by the way, there’s nothing in that statement that precludes Asians being hired in big numbers by Google, etc, as they, too, tend to believe the test scores rather than realize what caused them.

    “Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs.”

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.

    In any event, plenty of Asians get assimilated into American cultural values, but it takes a few generations.

    BTW, if you say JackD’s comments are on point, then we’re not disagreeing that much about the facts. You’re just more comfortable with grinding swot work being confused with actual ability. And much more comfortable with open cheating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PennTothal

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.
     
    The American managerial caste in the current year is not particularly competent or impressive.

    Most of them coast by on the ability to schmooze and by memorizing the required HR dpt. / PC/ diversity buzzpeak.

    If over-representation in this managerial caste is your case for white/euro superiority, then it is weak case indeed.

    Even if you discount 10% of asians as cheaters or soul-less grinds, the remainder is still an impressive lot punching over their weight demographically in the knowledge economy.

    , @FKA Max

    You’re just more comfortable with grinding swot work being confused with actual ability. And much more comfortable with open cheating.
     
    I refer to it as the ``Social Darwinist'' mindset, which is quite common among evolutionary psychologists and IQ-ists:

    Some additional information/comments on why, in my opinion, it is important to test for both IQ (Intelligence Quotient) and PQ (Psychopathy Quotient)[...]

    On the inappropriate use of the naturalistic fallacy in evolutionary psychology

    The naturalistic fallacy is mentioned frequently by evolutionary psychologists as an erroneous way of thinking about the ethical implications of evolved behaviors. However,evolutionary psychologists are themselves confused about the naturalistic fallacy and use it inappropriately to forestall legitimate ethical discussion. We briefly review what the naturalistic fallacy is and why it is misused by evolutionary psychologists. Then we attempt to show how the ethical implications of evolved behaviors can be discussed constructively without impeding evolutionary psychological research. A key is to show how ethical behaviors, in addition to unethical behaviors, can evolve by natural selection.
     

    - http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1755627
    , @David Owens

    And, by the way, there’s nothing in that statement that precludes Asians being hired in big numbers by Google, etc, as they, too, tend to believe the test scores rather than realize what caused them.
     
    You are, once again, deeply confused. Google, and most other tech companies, don't care at all about test scores.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/20/google-executive-gpa-test-scores-worthless-for-hiring/

    You may be confusing them with consulting and financial firms.
  63. @Discordiax
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?"

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn't be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?

    By contrast, helping your gifted class fill out the couple of pages of forms to take the citywide standardized test is pretty easy.

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn’t be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?

    Is education merit-based enough that a “talented guidance counselor” who found himself in the employ of a prison pipeline slurry pond could just send in his recruiting highlight tape and get picked up in the first round prep school draft?

    Read More
  64. @Daniel Chieh

    Asians care only about how they do on tests.
     
    If that was indeed true, we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs. But if someone has extensive recollection, reference materials, and a strong mathematical underpinning, then he will be capable of doing well on a test for programming, and he will do well at the actual coding as well.

    Hell, I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues. I don't think I was particularly brighter - perhaps even dimmer - but quantity has its own quality.

    Jack D's comments were appropriate.

    I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues.

    This behaviour by invading Orientals is no different than that of invading mestizoids who will work for $2.00 an hour; decreasing the wage and increasing the hours are mathematically equivalent: both are a race to the bottom. (The invaders living twenty to a home are another mathematical equivalence.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    You will forgive me if I do not feel like apologizing for working harder. Nothing which I did was either illegal or meant in ill intent.
  65. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Off topic, but this has to be included for Tweet of the year. Representative Steve King (R) Iowa, tweeted this a couple of hours ago:

    Wilders understands that culture and demographics are our destiny. We can’t restore our civilization with somebody else’s babies.

    The attacks to this tweet did not take long to come.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Very sensible comment. It's downright hazardous to be sensible these days.

    Given how things are turning out, how long can we continue to function as a society?

    At what point can we no longer keep the lights on? (Meaning, when will we lose the ability to keep electric plants running?)
  66. @education realist
    "we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. "

    Some would say that Asians are overrepresented in the knowledge industry because American business leaders like cheap labor.

    And, by the way, there's nothing in that statement that precludes Asians being hired in big numbers by Google, etc, as they, too, tend to believe the test scores rather than realize what caused them.

    "Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs."

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.

    In any event, plenty of Asians get assimilated into American cultural values, but it takes a few generations.

    BTW, if you say JackD's comments are on point, then we're not disagreeing that much about the facts. You're just more comfortable with grinding swot work being confused with actual ability. And much more comfortable with open cheating.

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.

    The American managerial caste in the current year is not particularly competent or impressive.

    Most of them coast by on the ability to schmooze and by memorizing the required HR dpt. / PC/ diversity buzzpeak.

    If over-representation in this managerial caste is your case for white/euro superiority, then it is weak case indeed.

    Even if you discount 10% of asians as cheaters or soul-less grinds, the remainder is still an impressive lot punching over their weight demographically in the knowledge economy.

    Read More
    • Disagree: Jacobite
    • Replies: @Jacobite
    It's a lot more than 10% and the only reason Hindus are so prevalent is that they work for peanuts.
  67. Bleuteaux says:
    @PiltdownMan
    I'm going to hazard a guess that having one Jewish parent and one non-Caucasian parent, whether Asian or Black, really boosts a kid's chances. Again, no data. Just a strong gut feel and confirmation from next-generation relatives at these schools and my non-scientific headcount of children of colleagues and friends who made the "holistic" grade.

    Good test scores are a given, of course, but as Ron Unz documented, that's nowhere near enough for all-Asian kids with high test scores, for whom it is a crapshoot, or for Caucasian non-Jewish kids for whom it is the same.

    Speaking of random anecdotes, I seem to notice more millennial couples, especially white guy asian woman, giving their kids Jewish first names. Odd.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    I used to know a crotchety old Jewish lady who once, in an unguarded moment, complained about the unusual name - something like Kassiya - that her son and his Catholic wife had given to their new daughter. (It was the wife's idea.)

    "She says it's from the Old Testament," the Jewish lady said. "But it sounds like a schwartze name to me."
  68. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It’s likely that an important factor in “real big-impact creativity” is the ability to work self-directed on a difficult problem or area for decades without burnout. Avoiding burnout is critical. In the long run all this early concentration on tests may just contribute to burnout. It’s a common problem in a lot of places.

    Would Newton have achieved all he did if he hadn’t “wasted” so much time on alchemy?

    Would Copernicus have laboured for decades on his problem if he hadn’t been distracted by tumultuous (and sometimes violent) politics?

    Would Napier have worked for so long on logarithms if he hadn’t also been writing religious tracts?

    etc..

    Dunno.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    72 anonymous > Would Newton have achieved all he did if he hadn’t “wasted” so much time on alchemy?

    well, he never wasted his youth chasing skirts like I did, so no wonder he had the time to become part of the Deep State of his day.
  69. @El Dato
    It's a conspiracy! Why won't the dice roll right?

    http://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/ny/2016/06/09/getting-black-and-hispanic-students-into-specialized-schools-remains-a-challenge-even-for-programs-designed-to-help/

    One way the city is trying to enroll more black and Hispanic students at its elite specialized high schools is by expanding a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students get into those schools — illustrating the challenge of boosting black and Hispanic enrollment at those most-competitive schools.

    The city will expand the Discovery program, which extends admission to some students who score just below the admissions cutoff and who complete summer coursework. Officials announced the expansion as part of a larger push to increase diversity in the specialized high schools on Thursday. The existing Discovery program at Brooklyn Technical School will expand, and a new program will begin at the High School of American Studies at Lehman College, the smallest of the eight schools.

    Most of the students in the Discovery program, though, are not black or Hispanic. And as enrollment for summer 2016 grows — to 220 students from 120 last summer — its share of black and Hispanic students is declining. In addition, two of the top specialized schools simply choose not to participate in the program.
     

    a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students

    The tyranny of exp(-x^2/2).

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Sure, but what about (exp(-(x^2)/2))? Also mathematically correct!
  70. I guess one reason why East Asians study so hard is because they tend to funnel into a narrow range of professions (like medicine and accounting) were entry is primarily determined by grades alone . In contrast, smart white kids tend to interested in a wider range of professions, including jobs which require additional talents like social skills, manual dexterity or creativity. For example, if you want to be an airline pilot, boat designer or military officer, good grades are important but not quite as crucial as in professions like medicine.

    Another factor is that East Asian women are relatively better at maths than white women. So smart Asian males have to compete against a lot more Asian females in fields like engineering and accounting.

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  71. countenance says: • Website

    It goes back to my point about the definition of diversity being a moving goalpost. Diversity can mean whatever you want it to mean or whatever you don’t want it to mean at any one point in time to suit whatever loaded agenda you’re packing.

    “Diversity in the American population” means all non-whites.

    “Diversity in politics” means anyone other than cishet white men and their cishet white wives.

    “Diversity in NYCDE exclusive high schools” means blacks and Hispanics only. Asians aren’t diverse.

    “Diversity in Silicon Valley” means blacks, Hispanics and women. Asian men aren’t diverse.

    “Diversity in Major League Baseball” means only domestic American-born blacks born to black people who have been here since before 1808.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kyle McKenna
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    You forgot the NBA where "diversity" means absolutely nothing. Everyone is tall, black and skinny.
    , @David In TN
    I recall the late Johnnie Cochran's exultant comment when the O.J. Simpson jury was selected. Cochran gloated "We have a diverse jury."

    The jury was 75 % black.
  72. FKA Max says:
    @education realist
    "we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. "

    Some would say that Asians are overrepresented in the knowledge industry because American business leaders like cheap labor.

    And, by the way, there's nothing in that statement that precludes Asians being hired in big numbers by Google, etc, as they, too, tend to believe the test scores rather than realize what caused them.

    "Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs."

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.

    In any event, plenty of Asians get assimilated into American cultural values, but it takes a few generations.

    BTW, if you say JackD's comments are on point, then we're not disagreeing that much about the facts. You're just more comfortable with grinding swot work being confused with actual ability. And much more comfortable with open cheating.

    You’re just more comfortable with grinding swot work being confused with actual ability. And much more comfortable with open cheating.

    I refer to it as the “Social Darwinist” mindset, which is quite common among evolutionary psychologists and IQ-ists:

    Some additional information/comments on why, in my opinion, it is important to test for both IQ (Intelligence Quotient) and PQ (Psychopathy Quotient)[...]

    On the inappropriate use of the naturalistic fallacy in evolutionary psychology

    The naturalistic fallacy is mentioned frequently by evolutionary psychologists as an erroneous way of thinking about the ethical implications of evolved behaviors. However,evolutionary psychologists are themselves confused about the naturalistic fallacy and use it inappropriately to forestall legitimate ethical discussion. We briefly review what the naturalistic fallacy is and why it is misused by evolutionary psychologists. Then we attempt to show how the ethical implications of evolved behaviors can be discussed constructively without impeding evolutionary psychological research. A key is to show how ethical behaviors, in addition to unethical behaviors, can evolve by natural selection.

    http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1755627

    Read More
  73. @Discordiax
    When I taught 7th grade math in NYC in 1999-2000 (my first year teaching, before I escaped NYC), "gifted" was your top 20% of the grade. So it's close to inconceivable that the kids who make Stuyvesant etc weren't in those classes.

    Why did you leave NYC?

    Read More
  74. Anon87 says:

    This is good news. If this continues, Trump continues to bring over blue collar votes, while saying goodbye to potential anti-Trump voters. Male employment goes up, hopefully more stable family lives, less potential for depression and drug abuse, etc. Buffalo union tips off Border Patrol in immigration crackdown

    Read More
  75. My son was identified as gifted and from what I could see, putting unqualified students into the program is cruel. The whole idea of a gifted program is to challenge the students. The biggest problem with genius is that everything is so easy that it’s difficult to develop self motivation.
    A lot of the gifted program consisted of doing things like crosswords and mathematical puzzles, word games other intellectual challenges. It wasn’t just a matter of teaching the usual courses at a faster rate. It was also very competitive as it must be to foster motivation.
    The poor students on the left side of the curve are going to be overwhelmed unless the classes are dumbed down to accommodate them at the risk of boring the the more advanced students.
    If anything it will demotivate the weaker students. In a regular school they would be stars and their self confidence and motivation would grow. In the gifted program they would be constantly reminded that their abilities are second class. Worse, unlike their proud, meta-cognitively challenged peers, they have the intelligence and self awareness to realize that they are dumber than their classmates. This can’t be good for their self esteem.

    Read More
  76. @Ivy
    Tiger Moms.
    Bonobo Moms.
    One of those is not like the other.
    And more likely to be single.

    Hey, now!

    Read More
  77. I suppose one way to meet diversity quotas is to have a program where representation is proportional to frequency in the general population ..so if .1% of the general population is Samoan, a Samoan would stand in for the class .1% of the time (an hour or so out of the entire year), which would fill the quota.

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  78. @countenance
    It goes back to my point about the definition of diversity being a moving goalpost. Diversity can mean whatever you want it to mean or whatever you don't want it to mean at any one point in time to suit whatever loaded agenda you're packing.

    "Diversity in the American population" means all non-whites.

    "Diversity in politics" means anyone other than cishet white men and their cishet white wives.

    "Diversity in NYCDE exclusive high schools" means blacks and Hispanics only. Asians aren't diverse.

    "Diversity in Silicon Valley" means blacks, Hispanics and women. Asian men aren't diverse.

    "Diversity in Major League Baseball" means only domestic American-born blacks born to black people who have been here since before 1808.

    You forgot the NBA where “diversity” means absolutely nothing. Everyone is tall, black and skinny.

    Read More
  79. SFG says:
    @International Jew

    a program for students who scored just below the cutoff on the entrance exam. But that program actually is helping more white and Asian students
     
    The tyranny of exp(-x^2/2).

    Sure, but what about (exp(-(x^2)/2))? Also mathematically correct!

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew
    I assumed we were all on the same page, with order of operator precedence.
  80. prosa123 says: • Website
    @SPMoore8
    I think that accurately reflects the ethnic composition of NYC nowadays, with the white population below 30%, and those who still live there are probably, generally, either not interested in higher ed or are wealthy enough to go to a private school.

    I should note that the "Asian" presence in NYC is not just Taiwanese and Chinese but also Koreans, Indians of all kinds, and others. Asia's a pretty big place.

    “I think that accurately reflects the ethnic composition of NYC nowadays, with the white population below 30%, and those who still live there are probably, generally, either not interested in higher ed or are wealthy enough to go to a private school.”

    A definitely non-trivial percentage of school-age white children in NYC are Orthodox or Hasidic and attend religious schools.

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  81. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    OT: Looks like police in Ferguson fabricated robbery by Michael Brown. He was taking back his property from behind the counter left earlier in the day after selling weed to a clerk.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/us/michael-brown-ferguson-police-shooting-video.html?ribbon-ad-idx=2&src=trending&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Economy&action=keypress&region=FixedRight&pgtype=article

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    • Replies: @International Jew
    Either that, or the new video proves he shoplifted twice that day.
  82. I’m a hater so it’s easy for me to think that 7 point whatever percent unknown is a very exclusive Club open only to very exclusive people.

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  83. @Triumph104
    That is not true today. The school district changed drastically under Mayor Bloomberg. Gifted students are actually in gifted programs which were specifically put in place to attract whites to the public schools.

    Every winter, thousands of New Yorkers take a standardized test that will determine their future opportunities. Some of them have studied for months, even paid for expensive test prep classes. And after it’s all over, maybe they can go back to playing with blocks, practicing tying their shoelaces, and singing the ABCs.

    These aren’t high school students taking the SAT—they’re children as young as four years old, entering kindergarten through third grade, who take New York City’s Gifted and Talented (G&T) admissions test, hoping for a coveted seat in one of the 103 G&T programs across the city’s public elementary schools. Under the current system, this test score is the sole G&T eligibility criterion.

    The stated purpose of New York City’s G&T programs is to “[support] the educational needs of exceptional students.” But in practice, they amount to a segregated academic track that benefits mostly White, Asian, middle-class students—namely, the students more likely to have educational advantages to begin with.

    ...This school year a majority (70%) of G&T students in New York City’s elementary G&T programs are White and Asian and a mere 23% are Black and Latino. ...

    ... It is commonly known that the reason that G&T programs exist in certain New York City schools is to attract middle-class parents to the public school system and diversify schools. ...

    ... In a report out earlier this year, NYU researchers suggest that the way to diversify G&T enrollments is to screen all preschool children.
     

    https://qz.com/666405/its-time-to-stop-putting-kids-in-separate-gifted-education-programs/

    In the real world, of course, we should be putting more money into the smart fucks than the morons.

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  84. Another iSteve comments sections devolves into baseless Asian-bashing and excuse-making by mediocre white racists who can’t handle being beaten at their own game. Sad!

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  85. @education realist
    "we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. "

    Some would say that Asians are overrepresented in the knowledge industry because American business leaders like cheap labor.

    And, by the way, there's nothing in that statement that precludes Asians being hired in big numbers by Google, etc, as they, too, tend to believe the test scores rather than realize what caused them.

    "Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs."

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.

    In any event, plenty of Asians get assimilated into American cultural values, but it takes a few generations.

    BTW, if you say JackD's comments are on point, then we're not disagreeing that much about the facts. You're just more comfortable with grinding swot work being confused with actual ability. And much more comfortable with open cheating.

    And, by the way, there’s nothing in that statement that precludes Asians being hired in big numbers by Google, etc, as they, too, tend to believe the test scores rather than realize what caused them.

    You are, once again, deeply confused. Google, and most other tech companies, don’t care at all about test scores.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/20/google-executive-gpa-test-scores-worthless-for-hiring/

    You may be confusing them with consulting and financial firms.

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  86. @Jack D
    Part of the Asian dominance in admissions is just because they are pretty smart, but part of it is because (even before the city began its own test prep programs) they had a well developed cram system - cram schools, sample tests, etc. and motivated tiger moms who would make sure that their kids were prepped. Kids do what their peers do so if you see all of your Asian buddies at cram school it seems normal and maybe even fun. Even if you are a fairly bright black (or white) kid, you are not networked into this whole system-gaming setup* and even if you know that it exists you and your parents are not interested in your devoting countless hours of time and effort to participating in it. Or "maybe they just want it more".

    *note that there is no clear line between "gaming the system" and "working really hard and studying a lot". Most Asians are results-oriented people and don't tie themselves up in knots worrying about whether they have crossed some invisible line in accomplishing their goal (although they do worry about getting caught). If you have to put a little melamine in the baby formula to get it to test out for protein content, well you gotta to what you gotta do. So sometimes the stuff that they do (studying) meets Western ethical standards and could not be called "cheating" and sometimes (sending someone else to take the test for you, getting advance copies of the tests, etc.) it doesn't.

    NYC schools apparently offer free test prep programs. The following is a sample of the kind of thing they offer:

    The summer after sixth grade, Riyan spent most days at a small storefront “cram school,” memorizing surface area and volume formulas.

    Seems to me that the issue isn’t test prep – it’s schools that don’t teach basic math skills. Either the curriculum is way slack, or it’s being dumbed down for kids who aren’t smart enough to hack it. Maybe tracking* is the solution.

    * This feeds into a pet peeve of mine. It’s ridiculous to have so-called “gifted” programs. Mozart was gifted. Beethoven was gifted. 1 out of 20 kids isn’t gifted. The number is more like 1 in 2 million. Above average kids aren’t gifted – they’re just above average. We should have tracking programs so everyone can learn at his optimal speed and skip the exaggerated verbiage re above average kids.

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  87. Jack ryan says: • Website

    Our people need to start doing line tge Hews have always done:

    Change our last names to hide our ethnicity.

    If a Hispanic sir name gets your children school acceptance and scholarships – sure do it .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    The Jews have been successfully using this canard (changing names and obfuscating ethnicity) to get one over on other societies for centuries, if not millennia....
  88. Ed says:
    @Triumph104
    You do make sense. Instead, New York City Department of Education is putting 100% of their effort and millions of dollars into identifying and tutoring low-income students to get them into a specialized high school. Of course most of these low-income kids are white and Asian. The district has a 22-month program called DREAM; only 6% of the kids are black and Hispanic yet they comprise 26% of the black and Hispanic kids who get an offer.

    There may be an odd guidance counselor here and there who is encouraging middle-class black and Hispanic kids to sign up for the SHSAT, otherwise they are ignored.

    I suspect the few blacks & Hispanics are either from an immigrant background (the NYT ran a story on a black Stuy HS student she was from Jamaica) or they’re biracial like the mayor’s son that went to Brooklyn Tech.

    I make this point to point out that they are probably self-motivated..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    I can't speak for Hispanics, but I noticed that the difference between native blacks and immigrant blacks is that black immigrants make the effort to learn the system and figure out their best options. The Jamaican girl's father asked someone at work what school his daughter should attend and less than 6 months after she arrived in the United States she took the SHSAT which got her into Stuyvesant then she was accepted into Yale.

    Last year a black girl from Guyana who attended one of New York City's specialized high schools got into all 8 Ivys plus MIT. She came to the US at age 11 and her mother is a nurse's aide who works two jobs but they had no problem figuring out the system.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/07/pf/college/kelly-hyles-college/
  89. Ed says:
    @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    You’re wrong. In NYC Asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/ceo/html/poverty/lookup.shtml

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  90. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon7
    "Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites."

    This kind of sticks in my craw. My son enjoyed science and math and so signed up for the Science Olympiad team in his high school. Since we live in a college town, the kids on the team were almost all Asian.

    This didn't bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student's homes for the team, and my son wasn't invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn't invited because he is white.

    I can imagine white parents not wanting to send their kids to an Asian-dominated school.

    Happened to me as well. We put my son in a preschool and accidentally put him in the class with Indian and Paki Muslims. He was the only white boy out of 20 kids. He came home and said, “I think they all have birthday parties but I never get invited.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    And a lone Hindu amongst whites might not get invited to parties either.

    Conclusion: people prefer to live and associate with their own ethnic groups. It's blindingly obvious.

    Multiculturalism is crap. Diversity is not only not our strength, it's a terrible weakness.
  91. @CCZ
    "Tool Use Is 'Innate' In Chimpanzees But Not Bonobos, Their Closest Evolutionary Relative"

    "The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use...nor did social opportunities."

    Chimpanzees and bonobos are the two closest living relatives of the human species - the ultimate tool-using ape. Yet, despite being so closely related on the evolutionary tree, wild chimpanzees and bonobos differ hugely in the way they use tools.

    Chimpanzees show the most diverse range of tool use outside of humans. For example, chimpanzees use sticks to 'fish' for ants and termites, stones to crack nuts, as well as tools for grooming and communication. Bonobos rarely use tools and never to forage for food.

    Tool use is 'innate' in chimpanzees but not bonobos, their closest evolutionary relative

    They also investigated the innate propensity for object manipulation in young apes, regardless of whether said object was deployed as a 'tool' - the first wild inter-species comparison of its kind.

    The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use. From nut trees to ant nests, stones to shrubs, the bonobos had access to as many tools and promising foraging opportunities in their stomping ground as the chimpanzees.

    Nor did social opportunities. In fact, young bonobos spent more time with their mothers, and had more individuals in close proximity for more time whilst feeding than young chimpanzees. Young bonobos also had more social partners than young chimpanzees.

    However, immature chimpanzees manipulated and played a lot more with objects than bonobos, and played with objects on their own. This was a difference already visible in very young individuals, says Koops. In fact, she says this is the first evidence for a species difference in the innate predisposition for tool use in our closest evolutionary cousins.

    "Chimpanzees are object-oriented, in a way that bonobos are not," said Koops, who conducted the work at Cambridge University's Division of Biological Anthropology and at Zurich University's Anthropological Institute and Museum.

    "Given the close evolutionary relationship between these two species and humans, insights into the tool use difference between chimpanzees and bonobos can help us identify the conditions that drove the evolution of human technology.

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-06-tool-innate-chimpanzees-bonobos-closest.html#jCp

     

    And one of them is female-dominated. The hilarity almost writes itself.

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  92. @Jack ryan
    Our people need to start doing line tge Hews have always done:

    Change our last names to hide our ethnicity.

    If a Hispanic sir name gets your children school acceptance and scholarships - sure do it .

    The Jews have been successfully using this canard (changing names and obfuscating ethnicity) to get one over on other societies for centuries, if not millennia….

    Read More
  93. Ed says:
    @George
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate"

    Those schools are not as big as the public schools. Graduation is probably like 100 per school. So if you figure 10 blacks get scholarships at each that is just 40 individuals. I suspect the kid has to be more than smart, even if black, to get a scholarship.

    I’d guess that private schools in NYC in search of black students are less concerned about academics. As long as the black child is well behaved, reasonably bright and from the requisite disadvantaged background they’ll take them.

    My cousin’s husband (he’s black as am I) went to Sidwell Friends on scholarship through the intervention of a white mentor. He’s no genius by any means but he does quite well for himself today.

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  94. @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    IQ doesn’t make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    Yep.

    We don’t need to import a new overclass any more than we need to import a new underclass.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ben tillman

    We don’t need to import a new overclass any more than we need to import a new underclass.
     
    You're right, of course, but part if what's going on is that the imported lower class is used as a justification for importing the "overclass", to balance things out. All of which adds up to deliberate population replacement from top to bottom.
  95. @Paul Rain
    Just ridiculous. Looking at those numbers, you can guarantee that white students (particularly actually white white students) were subject to intense discrimination. But it's the natural under performance of the blacks and beans that gets attention.

    Well that’s the purpose.

    Prog politics has devolved into keeping the other whites down.

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  96. @Daniel Chieh

    Asians care only about how they do on tests.
     
    If that was indeed true, we would not also be overrepresented in the knowledge economy as well. Being well-prepared and working obsessively is indeed helpful on the job as well as on the test, although perhaps not as equally helpful in all jobs. But if someone has extensive recollection, reference materials, and a strong mathematical underpinning, then he will be capable of doing well on a test for programming, and he will do well at the actual coding as well.

    Hell, I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues. I don't think I was particularly brighter - perhaps even dimmer - but quantity has its own quality.

    Jack D's comments were appropriate.

    Hey bro, we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie, we don’t really need another asian pride worldwide shill around here

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I think "pride" is mostly silly, but its always worthwhile to note what's realistic. After all, I'm just another opinion at the end of the day. You can always ignore my posts, which rarely are about "Asian pride" I would say.
    , @Twinkie

    we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie
     
    I was never taller than 6' 3" and that was when I was younger and probably early in the morning before spine compression set in. I am closer to 6' 2" now (the funny thing was that I was the shortest kid in my first grade class in East Asia - I sat up front). I am tall-ish, not freakishly tall. That is to say, tall enough to be uncomfortable in a turboprop.

    But the rest, jawohl.

    And just weapons skills - "tactical" is redundant. I am also pretty handy in a fight without weapons (not that you'd ever find me without one).

    asian pride worldwide shill
     
    To the extent I have pride, it's in myself, in my own accomplishments, not in being "Asian" whatever that may mean.

    Is "shill" someone who makes you feel small and insecure?
  97. Rod1963 says:
    @education realist
    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.

    "note that there is no clear line between “gaming the system” and “working really hard and studying a lot”."

    Actually there is, but it's one people don't like to acknowledge. Working really hard and studying a lot is a great idea if you are actually better informed, erudite, impressive in the depth and breadth of your knowledge. That's how European cultures think.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than "will this be on the test"?

    And so, in their own way, Asians become peers that white parents don't want their kids to have.

    Finally, best I can tell, the test is designed to advantage Asians. A kid who gets a near perfect score on math but below average in verbal will make the cut off. A kid who gets near perfect scores in both won't. Steve, I know you wrote about this back in 2012. I have been searching endlessly and can find no evidence that they have changed their test scores. And I can find no mention of the man who uncovered it. All the cites go back to the 2005 article. But the cites continue through 2014. I've seen no mention of it being disproved or changed.

    This isn't only a slight advantage to Asians. It's a huge advantage. And I'm shocked that news of it is basically blanked out these days.

    What you described is credentialism which is the defacto religion of modern China and now of the U.S.

    Asians are just more overt about it.

    Look lots of students in general aren’t really interested in subjects, they just want to get it over with and get their degree(credential) which opens the proper doors for them. The more prestigious school you graduate from the more doors that it opens. It can mean the difference between a life time sinecure at AEI or working at a generic corporate giant in a Herman-Miller cube farm.

    This is why a lot folks with four year degrees are so damn ignorant outside their narrow specialty, They memorize just enough to pass the tests then quickly forget about the subject matter.

    And lets be clear. Companies today just want “grinders” who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn’t complain and is disposable.

    And that’s considered to be a success in the U.S. you attend college, pile up a shit load of student debt, graduate, get a gig as a drone in a soul sucking cube farm that that eats at your physical and mental health while doing meaningless work. All the while wondering when your job gets off-shored. Then to compensate for this shit existence, you buy a expensive car to show off, maybe buy a bigger tract home than you can afford. All of which just makes you a even bigger wage slave.

    To top it off, you know you’ll have to work until you die, but you know with the rampant age discrimination you’ll be fired before 50 – probably by age 40. You’ll be lucky to get a part time gig at a big box store as a greeter.

    Not much of a bargain if you ask me.

    Read More
    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Breathe, breathe. Be cool my brother.
    , @Bernardista
    "And lets be clear. Companies today just want “grinders” who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn’t complain and is disposable."

    LOL ! Have you read any job ads lately? You will see the same code popping up in the employment section when they describe the ideal candidate: "must be able to multitask, work without supervision, be a team player, etc..." !

    Meaning you will get little to no training, do the work of more than one person (because they do not want to spend money on hiring enough staff), and be available 24-7.

    , @Jacobite
    LOL! Maybe you should have had a career where you could have worked outside.
  98. @guest
    The challenge of boosting blah, blah, blah. Reminds me of the sitcom How I Met Your Mother, in which the childish, possibly psychotic pick-up artist character, Barney, would grasp at some throw-away line from his friends and say, "Challenge accepted!" Meaning 9 times out of 10 he'd have to try to pick up girls with some sort of ridiculous handicap, like wearing overalls, completely unintended by the person who spoke the line that set him off.

    Whoever told these people they had to boost the enrollment of blacks and browns, to which they said "Challenge accepted!" They want us to think, I presume, the challenge has been laid down by a combination of the innate justice of statistical representation of the racial make-up of the population at large anywhere and everywhere in society plus the need to counteract the evil racism that keeps it from happening. But really it's just their childishness and psychopathology. They need jobs (managing the Gap, acting against the Gap, studying the Gap, reporting on the Gap, etc.), and the Gap perpetually provides one.

    Here's a plan: how about we give all the current elite schools over to the underrepresented. They can have them. You can even rename them after Obama and Cesar Chavez, or whatever. Then we give new schools to whites and Asians. Together or separately, whatever they prefer. Everyone's happy.

    Come on, you know that's where we're headed. (Well, that or war.)

    I never could get into that show … every time “Barney” appeared on screen, my gaydar started blaring like an air horn. This was even before he admitted it publicly.

    (Neil Patrick Harris came out a year or so after HIMYM debuted.)

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    • Replies: @guest
    His character was quite gay, if you associate gayness with promiscuity and extended adolescence. Which I do. There's a lesson to be learned there. (Not that I think the show was sending a coded message about gays or the gayificatin of heterosexuals. But that won't stop me from pretending.) The show didn't pretend he wasn't a horrible person, which I liked.

    It was basically just Friends mixed with Seinfeld, which we've seen before. One of the best sitcoms of its era, but at some point that's like being the world's tallest midget. You wouldn't miss much if you never saw it.

  99. @Bleuteaux
    Speaking of random anecdotes, I seem to notice more millennial couples, especially white guy asian woman, giving their kids Jewish first names. Odd.

    I used to know a crotchety old Jewish lady who once, in an unguarded moment, complained about the unusual name – something like Kassiya – that her son and his Catholic wife had given to their new daughter. (It was the wife’s idea.)

    “She says it’s from the Old Testament,” the Jewish lady said. “But it sounds like a schwartze name to me.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bleuteaux
    Yup! In one couple, the Asian woman was literally leafing through the Old Testament for names in the last 10 days of her pregnancy.

    I've got to imagine somewhere out on the internet, someone is telling these Chinese women (as in her case) that this is a brilliant Tiger Mom idea.
  100. Bleuteaux says:
    @Stan Adams
    I used to know a crotchety old Jewish lady who once, in an unguarded moment, complained about the unusual name - something like Kassiya - that her son and his Catholic wife had given to their new daughter. (It was the wife's idea.)

    "She says it's from the Old Testament," the Jewish lady said. "But it sounds like a schwartze name to me."

    Yup! In one couple, the Asian woman was literally leafing through the Old Testament for names in the last 10 days of her pregnancy.

    I’ve got to imagine somewhere out on the internet, someone is telling these Chinese women (as in her case) that this is a brilliant Tiger Mom idea.

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  101. Jacobite says:
    @PennTothal

    Indeed. Usually not, in America. Or Asians would also be overrepresented in management.
     
    The American managerial caste in the current year is not particularly competent or impressive.

    Most of them coast by on the ability to schmooze and by memorizing the required HR dpt. / PC/ diversity buzzpeak.

    If over-representation in this managerial caste is your case for white/euro superiority, then it is weak case indeed.

    Even if you discount 10% of asians as cheaters or soul-less grinds, the remainder is still an impressive lot punching over their weight demographically in the knowledge economy.

    It’s a lot more than 10% and the only reason Hindus are so prevalent is that they work for peanuts.

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  102. “Google, and most other tech companies, don’t care at all about test scores.”

    Hahahahaha. Good one.

    I want to reiterate that yes, Chinese/Korean/Indian IQs are high, East Asians IQs are higher than whites on average. But it doesn’t lead reliably to the same results, the results that we expect from high IQs. Similarly, I think, black IQs are lower than whites but that doesn’t reliably lead to the same results. Whites with a 75 IQ are mostly non-functional; blacks with a 75 IQ are,well, Muhammed Ali.

    So when we say that test scores are a proxy for IQ, we’re talking about what was long assumed to be true–a high IQ usually meant deep content knowledge, strong abstraction ability in visual, logic, and verbal fields, etc. Abstraction = good.

    The possibility that some races would be able to abstract without leading to the same depth, or that others would not be able to abstract while still being able to maintain high competence–well, it never occurred to anyone.

    Also–a logical question that Razib Khan always asks is shouldn’t Asians be underrepresented in key areas and shouldn’t they be having troubles in college? Well, I think they are underrepresented in many fields, but it’s hard to tell because we are constantly importing Asians to take over jobs and it’s hard to tell which is what. I also think Asians are having trouble in college, but the HUGE issue here is that colleges started changing their demands rather than fail Asians in huge numbers. This has likewise happened in high school, particularly in high-achieving high schools.

    But I don’t have hard data, and it’s fair enough to doubt me. But live in a high Asian immigration area in US for a while and your doubts may….lessen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @David Owens
    Google doesn't use test scores (they don't even require a degree for engineering jobs), Asians are way over-represented in the highly-skilled technical positions that actually drive the economy and Muhammad Ali was a borderline retard, Jewish media creation and witless dupe of the Nation of Islam.

    Your posts are so full of establishment platitudes and idiocies that I'm beginning to suspect you may be David Brooks.
    , @SPMoore8
    This is what I understand you to be saying:

    1. The ability to abstract at a high level and involving the association of abstract ideas is the hallmark of high intelligence.

    2. Since IQ tests can't really test for that ability in a structured and timed test, they test for what a person with that skill would likely have, a lot of specific knowledge in areas that reflect that ability (mathematics, symbols, words)

    3. However, the growth of a test prep industry over the last several decades has meant that enterprising students (and their parents) have learned how to use brute force and rote memorization to score highly on those tests, even though they lack that abstraction ability.

    -- If that is what you are saying, I think you are correct. I've known a lot of people in both the liberal arts and even STEM fields who succeeded by a lot of hard work and memorization. But few of them had particularly quick or open minds.
    , @Twinkie

    Also–a logical question that Razib Khan always asks is shouldn’t Asians be underrepresented in key areas and shouldn’t they be having troubles in college? Well, I think they are underrepresented in many fields, but it’s hard to tell because we are constantly importing Asians to take over jobs and it’s hard to tell which is what.
     
    As usual you distort what actually happened to fit your preconceived agenda. What Razib Khan and I both asked you was to produce data that display *mismatch* commensurate with your claims. In other words, if Asians, as you have claimed repeatedly, are beneficiaries of widespread cheating whose actual abilities/performance and test scores/grades show a great deal of divergence, then such a disparity would show up as mismatch, i.e. substantially lower follow-up performances (at the university and graduate levels). What "evidence" you provided in response (dropout rate et al.) was somewhat contradictory. Indeed the data seem to indicate that there is the opposite of mismatch, no mismatch or the mismatch, if any, is quite small, certainly not enough to warrant your breathtaking claims (such as that the SAT is meaningless for evaluating Asians due to cheating, their different IQ, or what have you).

    I also think Asians are having trouble in college, but the HUGE issue here is that colleges started changing their demands rather than fail Asians in huge numbers.
     
    Let me get this straight. Now that you can't demonstrate mismatch, your claim is now that Asians are failing, but that their failures are being covered up by Asian-friendly universities. You may wish to look up circular reasoning.

    Of course, your terminology is (perhaps intentionally) imprecise and opaque here. The Asians who are "having trouble" are usually Chinese international students at low status universities (usually mid- to low-tier public state schools) that are handing out American credentials for woefully prepared Chinese students in return for full tuition. But that, while an important and thorny issue of today, is not something that encompasses all or even most "Asian" students in the United States, and certainly not Asian-Americans. At most elite or high status universities, American-born Asians still outnumber foreign ones (and the foreign ones are much better prepared than their counterparts at less prestigious universities; many are graduates of "international" high schools in their home countries or are from prep schools in the U.S. or the UK).

    But I don’t have hard data
     
    You did, in the past. It's just that the data your put forth didn't jive with what you claim.
  103. unam says:
    @Jimi
    I work in Tribeca the NYC neighborhood Stuyvesant High School is located. Between 3:30 ad 4PM the streets are flooded with Asian, Indian, and a few White kids walking to the train station to go home.

    They're exactly as you would imagine. Lots of nerdy teens who look too young to be teenagers. They're conversations revolve around how to please their immigrant parents who have high ambitions for their children.

    oh no !! This sounds terrible. They’re going to ruin this country when they grow up !!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jimi
    My post had a mocking tone but I don't resent or denounce them.
  104. A couple other comments:

    “You’re wrong. In NYC Asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks.”

    HUGE fraud involved in Asians pretending to be poor to qualify for need-based scholarships, living on a cash basis after banking their money at home.

    The private prep company I worked for had numerous students who qualified for full need-based scholarships to major universities, after paying $600/month for the prep company for two or three years. You see this in the NY Times stories all the time: somehow, these parents working in dry clean shops or as waiters have money for the prep programs. How, exactly? Because they have money coming from back home.

    The rest are usually illegal immigrants. Or both.

    On the birthday parties: well, yeah. And remember, Asians at least tolerate whites. They most assuredly didn’t get the memos on blacks and Hispanics.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Because they have money coming from back home.
     
    I'm curious how parents working in dry clean shops would nonetheless have money apparently available from a wealthy family back home specifically allocated for children to prep schools. Especially at time, which until recently, Asia was not known for wealth. Immigrants were usually those who pursued their fortunes in foreign lands in an effort to accumulate money to send back home, as part of the Confucian dynamic.

    At any rate, this does not match with my empirical experiences. I used a merit-based scholarship myself.

    Perhaps its true in NYC. I wouldn't know.

  105. @27 year old
    Hey bro, we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie, we don't really need another asian pride worldwide shill around here

    I think “pride” is mostly silly, but its always worthwhile to note what’s realistic. After all, I’m just another opinion at the end of the day. You can always ignore my posts, which rarely are about “Asian pride” I would say.

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  106. @Stan Adams
    Clearly, mandatory brain transplants are the answer. Crack open yellow and white craniums and transfer the gray matter into blacks and browns.

    Or, barring that, force high-performing students to mate with drooling dullards, so that the next generation might rise to the level of mediocrity.

    Steve, have you ever read about that Jewish math professor who offers up his sperm - for free - to any woman who wants it?
    http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/professor-who-donates-sperm-in-city-bathrooms-has-sired-22-kids/

    Some of his "clients" have been women of color ... their offspring might get something of a g boost from Daddy.

    Stan, Makes me laugh, as I think about the line from “Young Frankenstein” and the brain from Abby Normal.

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  107. @anonymouslee
    The Tiger Mom herself, a yale law professor, is rather below par for the gene pool her kids are swimming in.

    Their dad was a REAL star at Harvard law school and is a constitutional law professor at Yale purely on merit as one of the smartest legal minds in the world (Chua got spousal consideration).

    chuas father is a legitimate genius of world historical importance: "He is a professor in the electrical engineering and computer sciences department at the University of California, Berkeley, which he joined in 1971. He has contributed to nonlinear circuit theory and cellular neural network (CNN) theory.[2] He is also the inventor and namesake of Chua's circuit[3] one of the first and most widely known circuits to exhibit chaotic behavior, and was the first to conceive the theories behind, and postulate the existence of, the memristor.[4] Thirty-seven years after he predicted its existence, a working solid-state memristor was created by a team led by R. Stanley Williams at Hewlett Packard"

    Chua also has some siblings more intellectually impressive than she is (Stanford medical researchers or whatever)


    So maybe the tiger momming wasn't strictly necessary for her kids to do well in high school? At least, perhaps we shouldn't take the kids modest suçcess as evidence for the benefits of being a highly annoying parent. Chua might have realized this when her more successful husband pointed out his liberal jewish-american family didn't need to tiger mom him. But then again Amy never did live up to her father's expectations.

    Professor Chua’s students say she works super-hard as a teacher. Teaching is not Yale Law School’s top priority, but it’s nice to have somebody around who makes it her top priority.

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  108. @education realist
    A couple other comments:

    "You’re wrong. In NYC Asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks."

    HUGE fraud involved in Asians pretending to be poor to qualify for need-based scholarships, living on a cash basis after banking their money at home.

    The private prep company I worked for had numerous students who qualified for full need-based scholarships to major universities, after paying $600/month for the prep company for two or three years. You see this in the NY Times stories all the time: somehow, these parents working in dry clean shops or as waiters have money for the prep programs. How, exactly? Because they have money coming from back home.

    The rest are usually illegal immigrants. Or both.

    On the birthday parties: well, yeah. And remember, Asians at least tolerate whites. They most assuredly didn't get the memos on blacks and Hispanics.

    Because they have money coming from back home.

    I’m curious how parents working in dry clean shops would nonetheless have money apparently available from a wealthy family back home specifically allocated for children to prep schools. Especially at time, which until recently, Asia was not known for wealth. Immigrants were usually those who pursued their fortunes in foreign lands in an effort to accumulate money to send back home, as part of the Confucian dynamic.

    At any rate, this does not match with my empirical experiences. I used a merit-based scholarship myself.

    Perhaps its true in NYC. I wouldn’t know.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I’m curious how parents working in dry clean shops would nonetheless have money apparently available from a wealthy family back home specifically allocated for children to prep schools.
     
    It's not magic dirt. It's magic people. All Asians have huge amounts of cash or gold bars tucked underneath mattresses, don't ya know?
  109. SFG says:
    @Stan Adams
    Clearly, mandatory brain transplants are the answer. Crack open yellow and white craniums and transfer the gray matter into blacks and browns.

    Or, barring that, force high-performing students to mate with drooling dullards, so that the next generation might rise to the level of mediocrity.

    Steve, have you ever read about that Jewish math professor who offers up his sperm - for free - to any woman who wants it?
    http://nypost.com/2016/06/12/professor-who-donates-sperm-in-city-bathrooms-has-sired-22-kids/

    Some of his "clients" have been women of color ... their offspring might get something of a g boost from Daddy.

    They apparently managed to sue him for child support, successfully. Warning for any of you guys thinking of ah, aiding eugenics by sperm donation…

    Read More
  110. @Tiny Duck
    Let's say you're running a 5 mile race and for the first 4 miles you are forced to wear 10 pound heavy weighted shoes.. Then you are allowed to take them off in the last mile. How would you feel if people yelled at you 'why haven't you caught up yet? What's wrong with you?'

    Segregation and redlining had severe effects that are ongoing. How much of your success is due to the fact that your parents were able to get a good education and provide you a good education (because you weren't forced to live in a ghetto)?


    The problem isn't Asians. It is white people getting preferential treatment

    I was homeless three times as a child. I have vivid memories of sleeping on the floorboard of a car (the hump housing the transmisson hurt). From about the age of eight, I cared for myself after school, often into the night and my bedtime, because my mother was working two jobs. That didn’t keep her from finding tike to beat the shit out of me, though; the first bloody nose I can remember came at her hands when I was about four.

    I realised in adolescence that by educating myself I could escape the Hell I’d been born into. A National Merit Scholar, I finished nearly my entirely freshman year of college during high school via the Advanced Placement Program: Biology, American History, English, Government – all 5s. I earned an academic scholarship at the state’s flagship public university, maintaining it and graduating summa cum laude in under four years, all while working forty hours a week (much more than that in summers, not at cushy interships, but as a pipefitter’s helper on construction-sites). When I graduated I still couldn’t get work, so I enlisted in the United States’ Navy. All that while, even into my time as an undergraduate, I was defending myself against intermittent violent assaults by Negroes given every break and every benefit of the doubt in the schools simply for being Negroes. Special programs over summers to prepare them, designated tutors and mentors. Scholarships and housing set aside just for them.

    Three times in my adult life setbacks such as layoffs and pay-cuts led to my being homeless again. Once I slept on sidewalks. Another time I was blessed to have a friend’s couch. The last time I slept in a tent, and later, a van.

    I ultimately earned two graduate degrees and bought a house.

    You know what I didn’t do? I never bitched about the colour of my skin, my familial background, and how poor I was.

    I don’t write this to brag; it’s not even a particularly impressive life in any event. Any number of people reading it have had crazier lives. I write it to illustrate the cry of But Poverty! is horseshit.

    They wuz kangz anyway; that legacy surely equips then to overcome We wuz slaves.

    They were slaves nearly two centuries ago; they’ve been free longer than Russia’s serfs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Auto, Quite the post my friend, but don't waste your life story on Tiny and his ilk, you're a privileged outlier.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    That moron won't ever respond, particularly if you pointedly disagree with him, don't waste your time trying. He simply likes to be a cowardly troll.
    , @Tiny Duck
    If you are white and not succusful....

    Im sorry but youre a loser

    Im sorry to hear about your situation but remember that People of Color have it ten times as hard but without the structural benefits of being white
  111. @education realist
    "Google, and most other tech companies, don’t care at all about test scores."

    Hahahahaha. Good one.

    I want to reiterate that yes, Chinese/Korean/Indian IQs are high, East Asians IQs are higher than whites on average. But it doesn't lead reliably to the same results, the results that we expect from high IQs. Similarly, I think, black IQs are lower than whites but that doesn't reliably lead to the same results. Whites with a 75 IQ are mostly non-functional; blacks with a 75 IQ are,well, Muhammed Ali.

    So when we say that test scores are a proxy for IQ, we're talking about what was long assumed to be true--a high IQ usually meant deep content knowledge, strong abstraction ability in visual, logic, and verbal fields, etc. Abstraction = good.

    The possibility that some races would be able to abstract without leading to the same depth, or that others would not be able to abstract while still being able to maintain high competence--well, it never occurred to anyone.

    Also--a logical question that Razib Khan always asks is shouldn't Asians be underrepresented in key areas and shouldn't they be having troubles in college? Well, I think they are underrepresented in many fields, but it's hard to tell because we are constantly importing Asians to take over jobs and it's hard to tell which is what. I also think Asians are having trouble in college, but the HUGE issue here is that colleges started changing their demands rather than fail Asians in huge numbers. This has likewise happened in high school, particularly in high-achieving high schools.

    But I don't have hard data, and it's fair enough to doubt me. But live in a high Asian immigration area in US for a while and your doubts may....lessen.

    Google doesn’t use test scores (they don’t even require a degree for engineering jobs), Asians are way over-represented in the highly-skilled technical positions that actually drive the economy and Muhammad Ali was a borderline retard, Jewish media creation and witless dupe of the Nation of Islam.

    Your posts are so full of establishment platitudes and idiocies that I’m beginning to suspect you may be David Brooks.

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  112. @SonOfStrom
    Slightly OT: Harvard Law to begin accepting GRE scores in addition to LSAT scores for admission:

    http://m.startribune.com/harvard-law-to-begin-accepting-gre-scores-not-just-the-lsat/415809514/

    How many readers will misread "GRE" (the pumped-up SAT-style grad school admissions test most non-law school/LSAT, non-medschool/MCAT accept) is "GED" and flood Harvard law admissions?

    Wow. The debunking of the law school scam has finally come home to roost even at Harvard, and hilarity is ensuing.

    The GRE is not at all comparable to the LSAT.

    Read More
    • Replies: @David Owens
    This is most likely an affirmative action scam, a way to admit low-scoring blacks without having their low LSAT scores drag Harvard down in the US News rankings (since those don't factor in the GRE).
  113. SPMoore8 says:
    @education realist
    "Google, and most other tech companies, don’t care at all about test scores."

    Hahahahaha. Good one.

    I want to reiterate that yes, Chinese/Korean/Indian IQs are high, East Asians IQs are higher than whites on average. But it doesn't lead reliably to the same results, the results that we expect from high IQs. Similarly, I think, black IQs are lower than whites but that doesn't reliably lead to the same results. Whites with a 75 IQ are mostly non-functional; blacks with a 75 IQ are,well, Muhammed Ali.

    So when we say that test scores are a proxy for IQ, we're talking about what was long assumed to be true--a high IQ usually meant deep content knowledge, strong abstraction ability in visual, logic, and verbal fields, etc. Abstraction = good.

    The possibility that some races would be able to abstract without leading to the same depth, or that others would not be able to abstract while still being able to maintain high competence--well, it never occurred to anyone.

    Also--a logical question that Razib Khan always asks is shouldn't Asians be underrepresented in key areas and shouldn't they be having troubles in college? Well, I think they are underrepresented in many fields, but it's hard to tell because we are constantly importing Asians to take over jobs and it's hard to tell which is what. I also think Asians are having trouble in college, but the HUGE issue here is that colleges started changing their demands rather than fail Asians in huge numbers. This has likewise happened in high school, particularly in high-achieving high schools.

    But I don't have hard data, and it's fair enough to doubt me. But live in a high Asian immigration area in US for a while and your doubts may....lessen.

    This is what I understand you to be saying:

    1. The ability to abstract at a high level and involving the association of abstract ideas is the hallmark of high intelligence.

    2. Since IQ tests can’t really test for that ability in a structured and timed test, they test for what a person with that skill would likely have, a lot of specific knowledge in areas that reflect that ability (mathematics, symbols, words)

    3. However, the growth of a test prep industry over the last several decades has meant that enterprising students (and their parents) have learned how to use brute force and rote memorization to score highly on those tests, even though they lack that abstraction ability.

    – If that is what you are saying, I think you are correct. I’ve known a lot of people in both the liberal arts and even STEM fields who succeeded by a lot of hard work and memorization. But few of them had particularly quick or open minds.

    Read More
  114. @cucksworth
    So the NYtimes wants us to only think about white vs black? There is no other race besides evil whites who have advantages and noble blacks who only have low IQ due to societal factors

    No, there might be noble Hispanics too.

    But as for evil, only white.

    Unclear on what the NYT think of Far East Asians. Maybe they haven’t figured out what to think.

    Asians don’t fit the narrative. They’re not white so that should make them Good, a disadvantaged minority held back by white racism and privilege.

    But they’re not only whomping the blacks and Hispanics, they’re doing better than whites.

    Cognitive dissonance sets into the SJW brain at the point. Nothing fits. Their theories fail.

    So NYT just leaves them out completely.

    Read More
  115. @Autochthon
    Wow. The debunking of the law school scam has finally come home to roost even at Harvard, and hilarity is ensuing.

    The GRE is not at all comparable to the LSAT.

    This is most likely an affirmative action scam, a way to admit low-scoring blacks without having their low LSAT scores drag Harvard down in the US News rankings (since those don’t factor in the GRE).

    Read More
  116. @Autochthon
    I remember being successful in my career at times for simply having the gumption to stay at the office and work between 50% to 100% more hours than my colleagues.
     This behaviour by invading Orientals is no different than that of invading mestizoids who will work for $2.00 an hour; decreasing the wage and increasing the hours are mathematically equivalent: both are a race to the bottom. (The invaders living twenty to a home are another mathematical equivalence.)

    You will forgive me if I do not feel like apologizing for working harder. Nothing which I did was either illegal or meant in ill intent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I don't think you are bad man as such. I only emphasise that working harder isn't the same as working smarter, and by your own admission you yourself represent the gimmick of grinding by Asians which so many would pass off as some kind of innate genius.

    More critically, the behaviour is decreasing standards of living and health for the reasons I enumerated. Again, that does not make you an immoral individual, but it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.
    , @Opinionator
    I'm not sure that is relevant to the point he is trying to make.
    , @lavoisier
    You should be proud of working harder and earning a merit scholarship. It is something to be proud of and reflects a high level of knowledge, regardless of how acquired.

    I have no doubt that the SAT, GRE, MCAT, LSAT, Raven's matices, or any aptitude test can be "gamed." And that people who study harder and longer are likely to do better on the test than one who does not study as hard. However, that one scores higher than one's peers on these particular tests means something, regardless of that higher score was achieved. It reflects, however imperfectly, knowledge and problem solving ability.

    I find it dishonest to claim that because Asians are scoring better than whites on these tests the tests are somehow not reflective of intelligence. That to me sounds like bullshit. Might the white kids score better if they studied harder? Almost certainly they would. Might the blacks score higher if they studied harder? Of course.

    Obviously talent is important too. When I was younger I wanted to become a professional athlete. I played a lot of sports and practiced a lot and I was better than most kids who did not practice as hard as I did. But I could have practiced 24 hours a day and I would never have become Michael Jordan or Federer.

    My point: We all can achieve more with hard work, but it does not mean we all can become merit finalists.
  117. @David Owens
    This is most likely an affirmative action scam, a way to admit low-scoring blacks without having their low LSAT scores drag Harvard down in the US News rankings (since those don't factor in the GRE).

    Chicken dinner.

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  118. @Clyde

    Yep. The top Ivies love biracial kids. I have no data, only highly subjective impressions from doing college tours two summers ago.
     
    I never thought about biracial anything before Obama. Obama gave them new confidence. BiRacial is really in these days, are seen as superior hybrids and of course seen as the (inevitable) future/ How about the very light Valerie Jarrett? She must have been ragged on endlessly when she was young due to her lightness and Chinese-ish facial features. Called Chinky Chinaman by less unenlightened black kids. Of course she identifies as black and was in for revenge while just about living in the White House 24/7 We know she's Obama's brains and intellectual dominatrix whip it good!

    So when is Valerie Jarrett going to be on Henry Louis Gates' DNA show? This would be a kick, her Afro DNA looks 15% tops.

    Valerie Jarrett has already been on the show. Her DNA is 49% European, 46% Sub Saharan African, and 5% Native American. (Stanford, University of Michigan Law School) (Jarrett’s daughter: University of Chicago Lab School, Amherst, Harvard Law)

    Cory Booker has a similar makeup: 47% African, 45% European, 7% Native American. (Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law School)

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    Valerie Jarrett has already been on the show. Her DNA is 49% European, 46% Sub Saharan African
     
    The test should be redone.
  119. @anonymouslee
    weird little point: there's no way native Americans make up enough of NYC 8th graders to be 0.5% of the elite. No way.

    So who's lying about it? White kids trying to get in on the AA game? Latinos who are part Taino or Mayan?

    Elizabeth Warren?

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  120. SPMoore:

    Problem #1: (I’m positing, theorizing, etc): Asians, particularly East Asians, have capabilities that allow them to get high scores on our tests (including IQ tests) without having the characteristics that generally accompany high IQ whites. There are always exceptions (many high IQ whites are similar to what I see as EA weaknesses, and there are EA who have the same characteristics we expect). My *guess* with Asian IQ is that they are much, much higher in visual spatial that allows them to compensate in ways we aren’t even yet aware of.

    Problem #2: blacks are less able to abstract, and again probably for genetic reasons, are more likely to have crystalized intelligence. Tests that go into a wide range of topics are going to work againnst those strengths. (Again, many blacks also have low IQs, and others have high IQs with charateristics we expect).

    Restatements of your points:

    1. I am saying that the ability to abstract at a high level, etc, is the hallmark of what *white folks* call intelligence, probably for genetic reasons involving our particular mix of visual-spatial, logic, and verbal abilities. We developed a test for it that *assumed* our particular mix of abilities. Tests are an excellent proxy for IQ as we measure it.

    2. Kind of, but I’m saying that the tests were designed in the expectation of kids who would organically acquire this information and be able to produce it without particular preparation.

    3/4 for Asians, yes. But the similar problem is occurring at the bottom of the curve. If we weren’t forcing blacks into AP tests to score Jay Mathews points, we’d see that blacks are generally doiing better in AP tests than SAT. I personally know several black kids who could not get above 1500 on the SAT (through 2015 score) but scored 4s and 5s on APUSH and APENG, as well as getting 12s on their essays.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    Thanks. I personally don't quite get the racial disparities argument as you state it, but that's on me, not you.

    However, the fact of the matter is whether you have the Knowledge (with a capital K) by brute force or by picked up along the way genius, you are still very likely to be a relative success in any knowledge game in town. I think the cutoff point will involve judgment and people skills, which probably explains the lack of non-whites in managerial or leadership positions. (Another cutoff will involve a willingness to simply live your career, which a lot of people, especially very bright people, aren't always willing to do.)

    I mean, it sounds like your kids are generally all above average; and in most fields, most of the time, that's what counts. After that, it's mostly about hard work and good life habits, along with a little luck. I mean, again, we're mostly talking about guys shooting for above average earnings and a middle class life. We're not creating a template for Nobel prize winners.

    As to the over-representation of Asians, I don't know. I will say that their handling of numbers tends to be a little dogmatic. I have generally assigned it to cultural rigidity.
  121. @anonymouslee
    weird little point: there's no way native Americans make up enough of NYC 8th graders to be 0.5% of the elite. No way.

    So who's lying about it? White kids trying to get in on the AA game? Latinos who are part Taino or Mayan?

    anonymouslee, They’re Elizabeth Warren’s relatives, honest injun.

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  122. @Jimi
    Also I suspect the Black kids at these schools are from the high achieving Caribbean Black middle class of NY not from the historical African American community.

    Likely Ghanaian or Nigerian, nowadays.

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  123. phil says:
    @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    Some HBDers do not mind high-IQ, non-white immigrants. Other HBDers believe that thorough-going ethnic diversity leads to a more fractious society, even if the immigrants are hard-working and have high IQs.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    As to the former, what is their telos, their conception of the good?
  124. @Daniel Chieh
    You will forgive me if I do not feel like apologizing for working harder. Nothing which I did was either illegal or meant in ill intent.

    I don’t think you are bad man as such. I only emphasise that working harder isn’t the same as working smarter, and by your own admission you yourself represent the gimmick of grinding by Asians which so many would pass off as some kind of innate genius.

    More critically, the behaviour is decreasing standards of living and health for the reasons I enumerated. Again, that does not make you an immoral individual, but it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    If ancestors who fought against Corwallis is the criterion, that means that more than half of Americans should go back where they came from - Salk, DiMaggio, Sinatra, Babe Ruth, Donald Trump, on and on.

    Tonight I had dinner with a Chinese-American doctor (very highly regarded - he is literally the doctor's doctor in my area) whose father was also a doctor - a board certified surgeon. I asked him how his father came to practice in a small city in the middle of Pennsylvania. He told be that when his father graduated at the top of his class at Penn, he told his department head that he wanted to give something back to America, which had been very good to him, and where could he go where he could do the most good? They told him that in this small city at that time there were no other surgeons with his level of skill and that he could do a lot of good there, so he did. I can't imagine how many American lives this man must have saved or improved, despite not having any ancestors at Yorktown.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    My thanks for the kind words.

    But as Jack D more or less noted, sometimes working harder is indeed not really different from working smarter; it, too, may be hereditary(the ability to endure boredom). And its hard to argue that I necessarily contributed to the net disutility to the US insofar as I contributed to the success of projects and corporations, which were American owned, and therefore more competitive as a whole.

    Insofar as it being zero sum, if I was not present, the answer isn't quite that I would simply be replaced by someone from the Native Born White American section - indeed, the company I was with lost their contract that which I was the main consultant soon after I left. For the particular price point and talent, it would seem that I was not just all that replaceable.

    So, I suppose, how would making a contract unprofitable and thus lose business for the company have benefitted the US? After sufficient losses of high performers later in the year, the corporation ended up laying off almost half of the department. That would seem to have resulted in a net loss of jobs, not a gain.

    I should add, that I do know that I have contributed to downsizing myself as one of my favorite things to do was to introduce automation; I might have been a bit more modest about my capabilities. But if I was not there to introduce automation, the only alternate options would be that someone else would(causing the same loss of jobs) or that it wouldn't be implemented at all, resulting in decreased profits and overall loss of market share(and layoffs).

    One can never accurately predict the past or possibilities, but I do not see how I contributed to net disutility, in such.
    , @Twinkie

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.
     
    Did you fight against Cornwallis?

    And what about the descendants of Cornwallis? Wouldn't you prefer that latter as immigrants over nonwhites?

    BTW, I agree with you on at least one thing - immigration restrictionism - even for high IQ Asians (so much for my Asian "shilling"). But my agreement on that score is not based on "fighting Cornwallis" as such, but on factors such as 1) assimilability and 2) net benefit to the existing citizenry.
  125. “Your posts are so full of establishment platitudes and idiocies that I’m beginning to suspect you may be David Brooks.”

    Ha, ha, ha, very ha.

    I’ve actually consulted at Google in a minor, boring capacity, and what they say and do are very different, particularly when they learned about lawsuits. So they openly demand grades and scores until they learned they’d do much better pretending not to, a couple years ago. They still use proxies.

    I’m not claiming Ali was a genius. If you go back and read it again (perhaps find a five year old to help you), you’ll see I was comparing Ali to non-functional whites, who are obviously “retarded” at the same IQs–and with the same results–as people who are capable of handling press conferences.

    “Your posts are so full of establishment platitudes and idiocies that I’m beginning to suspect you may be David Brooks.”

    Yes, that’s true. Establishment folks always talk about a genetic basis for intelligence that differs across races.

    You’re projecting. Leave your little limited box, think big.

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  126. @Anon7
    "Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites."

    This kind of sticks in my craw. My son enjoyed science and math and so signed up for the Science Olympiad team in his high school. Since we live in a college town, the kids on the team were almost all Asian.

    This didn't bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student's homes for the team, and my son wasn't invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn't invited because he is white.

    I can imagine white parents not wanting to send their kids to an Asian-dominated school.

    Don’t consider a move to Vancouver, BC, in that case.

    We’re swamped. My sister and I disagree: I prefer the Asians over blacks and Muslims.

    She would like things to be the same as when we grew up there.

    I see it as a case of seeing a positive side. You’re not likely to see Chinese rioting like those Muslim scum in Rotterdam.

    By driving up the price of real estate, maybe the Chinese will keep all but the richest Muslims out (neither of us lives in Vancouver now. The place is far too crowded. We’re in smaller BC cities.)

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  127. @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    Rod, very interesting thought about importing monied Chinese. Do any of our Canadian posters know if this is true in Vancouver schools, as Vancouver had a huge influx of wealthy Chinese from Hong Kong.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    See my comment at #132.

    My opinion is that you could go farther and fare much worse than importing Chinese.

    So if the country's leaders are dead set on "diversity" then the Chinese (some very rich by but plenty not) are about the best you can get.

    We are far better off in Vancouver than those European cities who imported North African and Turkish peasants.

    My sister is less enthused. She would prefer no imports at all.
    , @Frau Katze
    I may not have answered your questions.

    The Chinese do not seem tribal the way Muslims are (marrying cousins). In fact, a not insignificant number marry whites.

    But Chinese society is a lot more corrupt than we are (were?).

    There are also complications: do they owe loyalty to Canada or China? I have no idea, but I'm sure many are still loyal to China.

    Clearly, importing hundreds of thousands in the space of 20 years or so wasn't really a good idea.
  128. @Ed
    You're wrong. In NYC Asians have a higher poverty rate than blacks.


    http://www.nyc.gov/html/ceo/html/poverty/lookup.shtml

    Delete

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  129. @SFG
    Sure, but what about (exp(-(x^2)/2))? Also mathematically correct!

    I assumed we were all on the same page, with order of operator precedence.

    Read More
  130. SPMoore8 says:
    @education realist
    SPMoore:



    Problem #1: (I'm positing, theorizing, etc): Asians, particularly East Asians, have capabilities that allow them to get high scores on our tests (including IQ tests) without having the characteristics that generally accompany high IQ whites. There are always exceptions (many high IQ whites are similar to what I see as EA weaknesses, and there are EA who have the same characteristics we expect). My *guess* with Asian IQ is that they are much, much higher in visual spatial that allows them to compensate in ways we aren't even yet aware of.

    Problem #2: blacks are less able to abstract, and again probably for genetic reasons, are more likely to have crystalized intelligence. Tests that go into a wide range of topics are going to work againnst those strengths. (Again, many blacks also have low IQs, and others have high IQs with charateristics we expect).

    Restatements of your points:

    1. I am saying that the ability to abstract at a high level, etc, is the hallmark of what *white folks* call intelligence, probably for genetic reasons involving our particular mix of visual-spatial, logic, and verbal abilities. We developed a test for it that *assumed* our particular mix of abilities. Tests are an excellent proxy for IQ as we measure it.

    2. Kind of, but I'm saying that the tests were designed in the expectation of kids who would organically acquire this information and be able to produce it without particular preparation.

    3/4 for Asians, yes. But the similar problem is occurring at the bottom of the curve. If we weren't forcing blacks into AP tests to score Jay Mathews points, we'd see that blacks are generally doiing better in AP tests than SAT. I personally know several black kids who could not get above 1500 on the SAT (through 2015 score) but scored 4s and 5s on APUSH and APENG, as well as getting 12s on their essays.

    Thanks. I personally don’t quite get the racial disparities argument as you state it, but that’s on me, not you.

    However, the fact of the matter is whether you have the Knowledge (with a capital K) by brute force or by picked up along the way genius, you are still very likely to be a relative success in any knowledge game in town. I think the cutoff point will involve judgment and people skills, which probably explains the lack of non-whites in managerial or leadership positions. (Another cutoff will involve a willingness to simply live your career, which a lot of people, especially very bright people, aren’t always willing to do.)

    I mean, it sounds like your kids are generally all above average; and in most fields, most of the time, that’s what counts. After that, it’s mostly about hard work and good life habits, along with a little luck. I mean, again, we’re mostly talking about guys shooting for above average earnings and a middle class life. We’re not creating a template for Nobel prize winners.

    As to the over-representation of Asians, I don’t know. I will say that their handling of numbers tends to be a little dogmatic. I have generally assigned it to cultural rigidity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    a willingness to simply live your career

    What is this?
  131. @Anonymous
    OT: Looks like police in Ferguson fabricated robbery by Michael Brown. He was taking back his property from behind the counter left earlier in the day after selling weed to a clerk.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/us/michael-brown-ferguson-police-shooting-video.html?ribbon-ad-idx=2&src=trending&module=ArrowsNav&contentCollection=Economy&action=keypress&region=FixedRight&pgtype=article

    Either that, or the new video proves he shoplifted twice that day.

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    The new video actually suggests that he was smoking dope all the time (using the cigarillo wraps to hold reefer.)
  132. @Anon
    Happened to me as well. We put my son in a preschool and accidentally put him in the class with Indian and Paki Muslims. He was the only white boy out of 20 kids. He came home and said, "I think they all have birthday parties but I never get invited."

    And a lone Hindu amongst whites might not get invited to parties either.

    Conclusion: people prefer to live and associate with their own ethnic groups. It’s blindingly obvious.

    Multiculturalism is crap. Diversity is not only not our strength, it’s a terrible weakness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon7
    To me, the proof of the pudding (or the lack of it, in this case) is that my kids went to a high school in a college town full of very bright people from all over the world. Their kids went to high school with my kid.

    And when I asked my daughter if everyone sat together in multicultural bliss, she laughed and said, no, everyone sits with their friends. The white kids sit with the white kids, the black kids sit with the black kids, the asian kids sit with the asian kids.

    The children of the most ardent multiculturalists don't accept different races. Go figure.
  133. @CCZ
    "Tool Use Is 'Innate' In Chimpanzees But Not Bonobos, Their Closest Evolutionary Relative"

    "The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use...nor did social opportunities."

    Chimpanzees and bonobos are the two closest living relatives of the human species - the ultimate tool-using ape. Yet, despite being so closely related on the evolutionary tree, wild chimpanzees and bonobos differ hugely in the way they use tools.

    Chimpanzees show the most diverse range of tool use outside of humans. For example, chimpanzees use sticks to 'fish' for ants and termites, stones to crack nuts, as well as tools for grooming and communication. Bonobos rarely use tools and never to forage for food.

    Tool use is 'innate' in chimpanzees but not bonobos, their closest evolutionary relative

    They also investigated the innate propensity for object manipulation in young apes, regardless of whether said object was deployed as a 'tool' - the first wild inter-species comparison of its kind.

    The researchers found that environmental opportunities did not explain the difference in tool use. From nut trees to ant nests, stones to shrubs, the bonobos had access to as many tools and promising foraging opportunities in their stomping ground as the chimpanzees.

    Nor did social opportunities. In fact, young bonobos spent more time with their mothers, and had more individuals in close proximity for more time whilst feeding than young chimpanzees. Young bonobos also had more social partners than young chimpanzees.

    However, immature chimpanzees manipulated and played a lot more with objects than bonobos, and played with objects on their own. This was a difference already visible in very young individuals, says Koops. In fact, she says this is the first evidence for a species difference in the innate predisposition for tool use in our closest evolutionary cousins.

    "Chimpanzees are object-oriented, in a way that bonobos are not," said Koops, who conducted the work at Cambridge University's Division of Biological Anthropology and at Zurich University's Anthropological Institute and Museum.

    "Given the close evolutionary relationship between these two species and humans, insights into the tool use difference between chimpanzees and bonobos can help us identify the conditions that drove the evolution of human technology.

    Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-06-tool-innate-chimpanzees-bonobos-closest.html#jCp

     

    CCZ, Sea otters, so adorable, use rocks as anvil and hammer to crack open shellfish, and I would rather have sea otters living down the street than Bonobos.

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  134. @Stan Adams

    IQ doesn’t make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.
     
    Yep.

    We don't need to import a new overclass any more than we need to import a new underclass.

    We don’t need to import a new overclass any more than we need to import a new underclass.

    You’re right, of course, but part if what’s going on is that the imported lower class is used as a justification for importing the “overclass”, to balance things out. All of which adds up to deliberate population replacement from top to bottom.

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  135. SPMoore8 says:
    @International Jew
    Either that, or the new video proves he shoplifted twice that day.

    The new video actually suggests that he was smoking dope all the time (using the cigarillo wraps to hold reefer.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    My take on it was that they stopped him from taking the cigarillos earlier in the day and then later he came back to try it again. I have never heard of a drug dealer trading weed for cigarillos - usually they prefer cash. Even it if it true, it means that "Obama's son" was a drug dealer. I'm not sure how this makes him a more sympathetic character.

    The whole strong arm robbery thing was really a side show. The real stuff began when the gently giant tried to reach into the police car and take the officer's gun away from him. The instant you do that, all bets are off and indeed at that point he had 90 seconds to live. I don't know whether the officer overreacted or not (the grand jury said not) but if you try to take an officer's gun away from him and you don't succeed, you are really asking for it (you are asking for it anyway because a lot of officers carry a secondary weapon for just such situations). Regardless of any legal niceties, the officer will rightly take this as a sign that you intend to kill him and will act accordingly to do what he perceives is necessary to save his own life, which he values much more than your sorry ass.
  136. @Anon7
    "Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites."

    This kind of sticks in my craw. My son enjoyed science and math and so signed up for the Science Olympiad team in his high school. Since we live in a college town, the kids on the team were almost all Asian.

    This didn't bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student's homes for the team, and my son wasn't invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn't invited because he is white.

    I can imagine white parents not wanting to send their kids to an Asian-dominated school.

    Anon 7, If it makes you feel better the Mexican kids would have invited him to their birthday parties, but probably use him as a piñata.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon7
    You're probably right, but I live in a town with pretty effective wall. It's called "high property taxes". So I didn't worry too much about it.
  137. @International Jew
    I assumed we were all on the same page, with order of operator precedence.

    IJ and SFG, get a room, at the library.

    Read More
  138. @Anonymous
    Off topic, but this has to be included for Tweet of the year. Representative Steve King (R) Iowa, tweeted this a couple of hours ago:

    Wilders understands that culture and demographics are our destiny. We can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies.
     
    The attacks to this tweet did not take long to come.

    Very sensible comment. It’s downright hazardous to be sensible these days.

    Given how things are turning out, how long can we continue to function as a society?

    At what point can we no longer keep the lights on? (Meaning, when will we lose the ability to keep electric plants running?)

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  139. @Rod1963
    What you described is credentialism which is the defacto religion of modern China and now of the U.S.

    Asians are just more overt about it.

    Look lots of students in general aren't really interested in subjects, they just want to get it over with and get their degree(credential) which opens the proper doors for them. The more prestigious school you graduate from the more doors that it opens. It can mean the difference between a life time sinecure at AEI or working at a generic corporate giant in a Herman-Miller cube farm.

    This is why a lot folks with four year degrees are so damn ignorant outside their narrow specialty, They memorize just enough to pass the tests then quickly forget about the subject matter.

    And lets be clear. Companies today just want "grinders" who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn't complain and is disposable.

    And that's considered to be a success in the U.S. you attend college, pile up a shit load of student debt, graduate, get a gig as a drone in a soul sucking cube farm that that eats at your physical and mental health while doing meaningless work. All the while wondering when your job gets off-shored. Then to compensate for this shit existence, you buy a expensive car to show off, maybe buy a bigger tract home than you can afford. All of which just makes you a even bigger wage slave.

    To top it off, you know you'll have to work until you die, but you know with the rampant age discrimination you'll be fired before 50 - probably by age 40. You'll be lucky to get a part time gig at a big box store as a greeter.

    Not much of a bargain if you ask me.

    Breathe, breathe. Be cool my brother.

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  140. “I mean, it sounds like your kids are generally all above average; and in most fields, most of the time, that’s what counts.”

    ?????

    My “kid” is 29. I’m talking as a teacher, not a parent.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    When I said "kids", I meant your students. That's the word I always used, back in the day.
  141. @Autochthon
    I was homeless three times as a child. I have vivid memories of sleeping on the floorboard of a car (the hump housing the transmisson hurt). From about the age of eight, I cared for myself after school, often into the night and my bedtime, because my mother was working two jobs. That didn't keep her from finding tike to beat the shit out of me, though; the first bloody nose I can remember came at her hands when I was about four.

    I realised in adolescence that by educating myself I could escape the Hell I'd been born into. A National Merit Scholar, I finished nearly my entirely freshman year of college during high school via the Advanced Placement Program: Biology, American History, English, Government – all 5s. I earned an academic scholarship at the state's flagship public university, maintaining it and graduating summa cum laude in under four years, all while working forty hours a week (much more than that in summers, not at cushy interships, but as a pipefitter's helper on construction-sites). When I graduated I still couldn't get work, so I enlisted in the United States' Navy. All that while, even into my time as an undergraduate, I was defending myself against intermittent violent assaults by Negroes given every break and every benefit of the doubt in the schools simply for being Negroes. Special programs over summers to prepare them, designated tutors and mentors. Scholarships and housing set aside just for them.

    Three times in my adult life setbacks such as layoffs and pay-cuts led to my being homeless again. Once I slept on sidewalks. Another time I was blessed to have a friend's couch. The last time I slept in a tent, and later, a van.

    I ultimately earned two graduate degrees and bought a house.

    You know what I didn't do? I never bitched about the colour of my skin, my familial background, and how poor I was.

    I don't write this to brag; it's not even a particularly impressive life in any event. Any number of people reading it have had crazier lives. I write it to illustrate the cry of But Poverty! is horseshit.

    They wuz kangz anyway; that legacy surely equips then to overcome We wuz slaves.

    They were slaves nearly two centuries ago; they've been free longer than Russia's serfs.

    Auto, Quite the post my friend, but don’t waste your life story on Tiny and his ilk, you’re a privileged outlier.

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  142. SPMoore8 says:
    @education realist
    "I mean, it sounds like your kids are generally all above average; and in most fields, most of the time, that’s what counts."

    ?????

    My "kid" is 29. I'm talking as a teacher, not a parent.

    When I said “kids”, I meant your students. That’s the word I always used, back in the day.

    Read More
  143. @Ed
    I suspect the few blacks & Hispanics are either from an immigrant background (the NYT ran a story on a black Stuy HS student she was from Jamaica) or they're biracial like the mayor's son that went to Brooklyn Tech.

    I make this point to point out that they are probably self-motivated..

    I can’t speak for Hispanics, but I noticed that the difference between native blacks and immigrant blacks is that black immigrants make the effort to learn the system and figure out their best options. The Jamaican girl’s father asked someone at work what school his daughter should attend and less than 6 months after she arrived in the United States she took the SHSAT which got her into Stuyvesant then she was accepted into Yale.

    Last year a black girl from Guyana who attended one of New York City’s specialized high schools got into all 8 Ivys plus MIT. She came to the US at age 11 and her mother is a nurse’s aide who works two jobs but they had no problem figuring out the system.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/07/pf/college/kelly-hyles-college/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    They took seats that could have gone to native born Americans.
  144. @Buffalo Joe
    Rod, very interesting thought about importing monied Chinese. Do any of our Canadian posters know if this is true in Vancouver schools, as Vancouver had a huge influx of wealthy Chinese from Hong Kong.

    See my comment at #132.

    My opinion is that you could go farther and fare much worse than importing Chinese.

    So if the country’s leaders are dead set on “diversity” then the Chinese (some very rich by but plenty not) are about the best you can get.

    We are far better off in Vancouver than those European cities who imported North African and Turkish peasants.

    My sister is less enthused. She would prefer no imports at all.

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  145. @Buffalo Joe
    Rod, very interesting thought about importing monied Chinese. Do any of our Canadian posters know if this is true in Vancouver schools, as Vancouver had a huge influx of wealthy Chinese from Hong Kong.

    I may not have answered your questions.

    The Chinese do not seem tribal the way Muslims are (marrying cousins). In fact, a not insignificant number marry whites.

    But Chinese society is a lot more corrupt than we are (were?).

    There are also complications: do they owe loyalty to Canada or China? I have no idea, but I’m sure many are still loyal to China.

    Clearly, importing hundreds of thousands in the space of 20 years or so wasn’t really a good idea.

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  146. guest says:
    @Stan Adams
    I never could get into that show ... every time "Barney" appeared on screen, my gaydar started blaring like an air horn. This was even before he admitted it publicly.

    (Neil Patrick Harris came out a year or so after HIMYM debuted.)

    His character was quite gay, if you associate gayness with promiscuity and extended adolescence. Which I do. There’s a lesson to be learned there. (Not that I think the show was sending a coded message about gays or the gayificatin of heterosexuals. But that won’t stop me from pretending.) The show didn’t pretend he wasn’t a horrible person, which I liked.

    It was basically just Friends mixed with Seinfeld, which we’ve seen before. One of the best sitcoms of its era, but at some point that’s like being the world’s tallest midget. You wouldn’t miss much if you never saw it.

    Read More
  147. @George
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate"

    Those schools are not as big as the public schools. Graduation is probably like 100 per school. So if you figure 10 blacks get scholarships at each that is just 40 individuals. I suspect the kid has to be more than smart, even if black, to get a scholarship.

    Several dozen private schools offer scholarships, not just the three he mentioned. Only 194 black kids received an offer to a specialized high school (some of the black test takers are already in private school). Private schools can take in the top half of scorers with no problem.

    Prep for Prep currently has over 700 kids in 50 or 60 different schools. At least a third of the 700 are black and Prep for Prep isn’t the only program placing scholarship students.

    http://www.prepforprep.org/podium/default.aspx?t=126418

    Former Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick went to boarding school through A Better Chance.

    http://abetterchance.org/abetterchance.aspx?pgID=868

    This kid turned down Stuyvesant to go to boarding school, Northfield Mount Hermon, in MA through the program Breakthrough New York. He was one of 7 black kids who got into Stuyvesant that year.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-whiz-kid-bypasses-top-city-school-mass-academy-article-1.2057716

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Northfield Mount Hermon

    That's where Edward Said went.

    He felt alienated.
    , @benjaminl
    There do appear to be a lot of these programs. Gee, I wonder how many are devoted to the welfare of white working class boys from West Virginia?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuestBridge
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Foundation
    http://www.collegehorizons.org/about
  148. Daniel H says:
    @Anon7
    "Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites."

    This kind of sticks in my craw. My son enjoyed science and math and so signed up for the Science Olympiad team in his high school. Since we live in a college town, the kids on the team were almost all Asian.

    This didn't bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student's homes for the team, and my son wasn't invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn't invited because he is white.

    I can imagine white parents not wanting to send their kids to an Asian-dominated school.

    >>This didn’t bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student’s homes for the team, and my son wasn’t invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn’t invited because he is white.

    This is just the beginning of the Asians flexing their muscles. Get used to it. That said, I do hope that Asians destroy the Ivy league. No other institution in America needs to be cut off at the knees more than the Ivys. Trump should go after his enemies where it really hurts. Initiate a department of Justice suit against all the Ivys for illegal discrimination against Asian applicants. You know, what Conan said. Let’s go for the good in life.

    Read More
    • Agree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Initiate a department of Justice suit against all the Ivys for illegal discrimination against Asian applicants.

    Asians are over-represented at Ivy League schools. They are not illegally discriminated against. These schools have always (or at least used to) express their desire to have somewhat of a balanced student population. When I was looking at colleges, the colleges emphasized that they were looking for more than just high grades and high test scores, even though grades and test scores were certainly very important.

    , @Anon7
    Although not invited to parties, my son got deep into the Asian perspective on schools - namely, they follow it like baseball. Let me tell you, there aren't nearly as many Asian kids in elite schools as there could be.

    One story told with great gusto was about a kid in their grade with a Chinese mother, but a white father. The kid was Asian, but had a white surname. He was able to get into his school of choice with a lower GPA and lower SAT scores than his Asian-surname friends who applied to the same school, but were rejected (their Asian quota was full, you see).

    Asian kids don't complain, though. They all recognize that you use any trick you can to get into the best schools. They all would have changed their names if they could have.
  149. Jimi says:
    @unam
    oh no !! This sounds terrible. They're going to ruin this country when they grow up !!!

    My post had a mocking tone but I don’t resent or denounce them.

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  150. @Rod1963
    What you described is credentialism which is the defacto religion of modern China and now of the U.S.

    Asians are just more overt about it.

    Look lots of students in general aren't really interested in subjects, they just want to get it over with and get their degree(credential) which opens the proper doors for them. The more prestigious school you graduate from the more doors that it opens. It can mean the difference between a life time sinecure at AEI or working at a generic corporate giant in a Herman-Miller cube farm.

    This is why a lot folks with four year degrees are so damn ignorant outside their narrow specialty, They memorize just enough to pass the tests then quickly forget about the subject matter.

    And lets be clear. Companies today just want "grinders" who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn't complain and is disposable.

    And that's considered to be a success in the U.S. you attend college, pile up a shit load of student debt, graduate, get a gig as a drone in a soul sucking cube farm that that eats at your physical and mental health while doing meaningless work. All the while wondering when your job gets off-shored. Then to compensate for this shit existence, you buy a expensive car to show off, maybe buy a bigger tract home than you can afford. All of which just makes you a even bigger wage slave.

    To top it off, you know you'll have to work until you die, but you know with the rampant age discrimination you'll be fired before 50 - probably by age 40. You'll be lucky to get a part time gig at a big box store as a greeter.

    Not much of a bargain if you ask me.

    “And lets be clear. Companies today just want “grinders” who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn’t complain and is disposable.”

    LOL ! Have you read any job ads lately? You will see the same code popping up in the employment section when they describe the ideal candidate: “must be able to multitask, work without supervision, be a team player, etc…” !

    Meaning you will get little to no training, do the work of more than one person (because they do not want to spend money on hiring enough staff), and be available 24-7.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Job postings, eh? Yeah, recruiters, like salesmen, are widely and rightly storied for their honesty and integrity. Have you worked a corporate job lately?

    Allow me to provide a glossary:

    Team Player: One who does whatever he is told without questioning, deviating, or in any other way seeming more motivated or effective than his supervisor or otherwise complicating the system

    Multitask: Do the work of three people under impossible deadlines; i.e., since physchological research has empircally demonstrated again and again that actual, effective multitasking is damn near impossible without detriment to each task, work eighty hour weeks

    Work Without Supervision: See Team Player, supra

    In other words: employers absolutely seek grinding automatons for the vast majority of work....
  151. @eah
    Don't Mention...

    https://twitter.com/AP/status/840789850055954432

    Test meant to screen teachers in New York state instead weeded out minorities.

    False dichotomy. The NYT is a tour de force in weaponizing fallacies.

    Read More
  152. Jack D says:
    @Autochthon
    I don't think you are bad man as such. I only emphasise that working harder isn't the same as working smarter, and by your own admission you yourself represent the gimmick of grinding by Asians which so many would pass off as some kind of innate genius.

    More critically, the behaviour is decreasing standards of living and health for the reasons I enumerated. Again, that does not make you an immoral individual, but it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.

    If ancestors who fought against Corwallis is the criterion, that means that more than half of Americans should go back where they came from – Salk, DiMaggio, Sinatra, Babe Ruth, Donald Trump, on and on.

    Tonight I had dinner with a Chinese-American doctor (very highly regarded – he is literally the doctor’s doctor in my area) whose father was also a doctor – a board certified surgeon. I asked him how his father came to practice in a small city in the middle of Pennsylvania. He told be that when his father graduated at the top of his class at Penn, he told his department head that he wanted to give something back to America, which had been very good to him, and where could he go where he could do the most good? They told him that in this small city at that time there were no other surgeons with his level of skill and that he could do a lot of good there, so he did. I can’t imagine how many American lives this man must have saved or improved, despite not having any ancestors at Yorktown.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I appreciate your point, but we've plenty of skilled American surgeons; I'm glad this man you write of is so kind and skilled, and I am sure China could use surgeons like him – probably more so than the U.S.A.

    Everyone can point to this or that foreigner and argue he should be admitted. He contributes; he's a swell guy. That's all beside the point. The country is full. Continuing exponential growth currently fueled by migration is deteriorating everyone's quality of life and straining finite resources. Raj the Mechanic, your Chinese surgeon...they are each just one more bottle of Gatorade.

    As to whether I have any qualms about those not the posterity of founding stock? Things seeemed indeed to go fairly well until about the late nineteenth centurey. But we are full up. We have been for some time. Even Steve (far more generous than I am on this matter) has pointed out that just because it may have been salubrious, or at least benign, to do a thing in the past, is not reason to do it in the present.

    Continuing the theme of surgeons: mine pumped me full of antibiotics via an IV drip two weeks ago during my surgery and for a day afterward before discharging me, because he cut a hole in me then put a bunch of metal inside that hole before stitching it closed. At that time those antibiotics were most welcome: they ensured my safety from devastating bacterial infections. I no longer take antibiotics; if I pumped myself full of antibiotics still, after the time at which they were helpful has passed, I would only succeed in devastating my own immune system, possibly harming my liver, and breeding über-bacteria immune to antibiotics.

    Likewise, continuing influxes are devastating the infrastructure, harming the very ecology of the nation, and breeding more and more emboldened invaders by the moment.

    The party's got out of hand, didn't it? It's time for the adults to shoo away the invitees, toss out the gatecrashers, and lock the front door.

  153. @Autochthon
    I was homeless three times as a child. I have vivid memories of sleeping on the floorboard of a car (the hump housing the transmisson hurt). From about the age of eight, I cared for myself after school, often into the night and my bedtime, because my mother was working two jobs. That didn't keep her from finding tike to beat the shit out of me, though; the first bloody nose I can remember came at her hands when I was about four.

    I realised in adolescence that by educating myself I could escape the Hell I'd been born into. A National Merit Scholar, I finished nearly my entirely freshman year of college during high school via the Advanced Placement Program: Biology, American History, English, Government – all 5s. I earned an academic scholarship at the state's flagship public university, maintaining it and graduating summa cum laude in under four years, all while working forty hours a week (much more than that in summers, not at cushy interships, but as a pipefitter's helper on construction-sites). When I graduated I still couldn't get work, so I enlisted in the United States' Navy. All that while, even into my time as an undergraduate, I was defending myself against intermittent violent assaults by Negroes given every break and every benefit of the doubt in the schools simply for being Negroes. Special programs over summers to prepare them, designated tutors and mentors. Scholarships and housing set aside just for them.

    Three times in my adult life setbacks such as layoffs and pay-cuts led to my being homeless again. Once I slept on sidewalks. Another time I was blessed to have a friend's couch. The last time I slept in a tent, and later, a van.

    I ultimately earned two graduate degrees and bought a house.

    You know what I didn't do? I never bitched about the colour of my skin, my familial background, and how poor I was.

    I don't write this to brag; it's not even a particularly impressive life in any event. Any number of people reading it have had crazier lives. I write it to illustrate the cry of But Poverty! is horseshit.

    They wuz kangz anyway; that legacy surely equips then to overcome We wuz slaves.

    They were slaves nearly two centuries ago; they've been free longer than Russia's serfs.

    That moron won’t ever respond, particularly if you pointedly disagree with him, don’t waste your time trying. He simply likes to be a cowardly troll.

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  154. OT: A while ago on this blog someone posted a YouTube video of two young white American girls speaking fluent Mandarin Chinese. I think their dad was a long time Hong Kong resident and they were raised in China but details escape me. I want to show this to someone else but can no longer find it – has it been taken off YT?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    They live in Singapore and their father is investor Jim Rogers. He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.

    https://youtu.be/xxl-pbHalqI
    , @yoyo
    President Trump's granddaughter speaking Mandrin will have more impact.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJmqwumR_8
  155. Jack D says:
    @SPMoore8
    The new video actually suggests that he was smoking dope all the time (using the cigarillo wraps to hold reefer.)

    My take on it was that they stopped him from taking the cigarillos earlier in the day and then later he came back to try it again. I have never heard of a drug dealer trading weed for cigarillos – usually they prefer cash. Even it if it true, it means that “Obama’s son” was a drug dealer. I’m not sure how this makes him a more sympathetic character.

    The whole strong arm robbery thing was really a side show. The real stuff began when the gently giant tried to reach into the police car and take the officer’s gun away from him. The instant you do that, all bets are off and indeed at that point he had 90 seconds to live. I don’t know whether the officer overreacted or not (the grand jury said not) but if you try to take an officer’s gun away from him and you don’t succeed, you are really asking for it (you are asking for it anyway because a lot of officers carry a secondary weapon for just such situations). Regardless of any legal niceties, the officer will rightly take this as a sign that you intend to kill him and will act accordingly to do what he perceives is necessary to save his own life, which he values much more than your sorry ass.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Not only that, but didn't the gun in fact discharge inside the vehicle during the struggle?
  156. Twinkie says:
    @27 year old
    Hey bro, we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie, we don't really need another asian pride worldwide shill around here

    we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie

    I was never taller than 6′ 3″ and that was when I was younger and probably early in the morning before spine compression set in. I am closer to 6′ 2″ now (the funny thing was that I was the shortest kid in my first grade class in East Asia – I sat up front). I am tall-ish, not freakishly tall. That is to say, tall enough to be uncomfortable in a turboprop.

    But the rest, jawohl.

    And just weapons skills – “tactical” is redundant. I am also pretty handy in a fight without weapons (not that you’d ever find me without one).

    asian pride worldwide shill

    To the extent I have pride, it’s in myself, in my own accomplishments, not in being “Asian” whatever that may mean.

    Is “shill” someone who makes you feel small and insecure?

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    • Replies: @27 year old
    >To the extent I have pride, it’s in myself, in my own accomplishments, not in being “Asian” whatever that may mean.

    It's shorthand for y'all playing captain save a Ho in every thread any time true stereotypes about asians come up.
  157. Twinkie says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Because they have money coming from back home.
     
    I'm curious how parents working in dry clean shops would nonetheless have money apparently available from a wealthy family back home specifically allocated for children to prep schools. Especially at time, which until recently, Asia was not known for wealth. Immigrants were usually those who pursued their fortunes in foreign lands in an effort to accumulate money to send back home, as part of the Confucian dynamic.

    At any rate, this does not match with my empirical experiences. I used a merit-based scholarship myself.

    Perhaps its true in NYC. I wouldn't know.

    I’m curious how parents working in dry clean shops would nonetheless have money apparently available from a wealthy family back home specifically allocated for children to prep schools.

    It’s not magic dirt. It’s magic people. All Asians have huge amounts of cash or gold bars tucked underneath mattresses, don’t ya know?

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  158. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D
    Part of the Asian dominance in admissions is just because they are pretty smart, but part of it is because (even before the city began its own test prep programs) they had a well developed cram system - cram schools, sample tests, etc. and motivated tiger moms who would make sure that their kids were prepped. Kids do what their peers do so if you see all of your Asian buddies at cram school it seems normal and maybe even fun. Even if you are a fairly bright black (or white) kid, you are not networked into this whole system-gaming setup* and even if you know that it exists you and your parents are not interested in your devoting countless hours of time and effort to participating in it. Or "maybe they just want it more".

    *note that there is no clear line between "gaming the system" and "working really hard and studying a lot". Most Asians are results-oriented people and don't tie themselves up in knots worrying about whether they have crossed some invisible line in accomplishing their goal (although they do worry about getting caught). If you have to put a little melamine in the baby formula to get it to test out for protein content, well you gotta to what you gotta do. So sometimes the stuff that they do (studying) meets Western ethical standards and could not be called "cheating" and sometimes (sending someone else to take the test for you, getting advance copies of the tests, etc.) it doesn't.

    Western ethical standards

    You mean like this? http://abcnews.go.com/International/honest-japanese-return-78-million-cash-found-quake/story?id=14322940

    But then, these people aren’t really Asian, are they? Just honorary whites… you know, because they were just aping white behavior, being that they are soulless automatons who can’t do abstract thinking or Western ethics and all that.

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  159. @Jack D
    If ancestors who fought against Corwallis is the criterion, that means that more than half of Americans should go back where they came from - Salk, DiMaggio, Sinatra, Babe Ruth, Donald Trump, on and on.

    Tonight I had dinner with a Chinese-American doctor (very highly regarded - he is literally the doctor's doctor in my area) whose father was also a doctor - a board certified surgeon. I asked him how his father came to practice in a small city in the middle of Pennsylvania. He told be that when his father graduated at the top of his class at Penn, he told his department head that he wanted to give something back to America, which had been very good to him, and where could he go where he could do the most good? They told him that in this small city at that time there were no other surgeons with his level of skill and that he could do a lot of good there, so he did. I can't imagine how many American lives this man must have saved or improved, despite not having any ancestors at Yorktown.

    I appreciate your point, but we’ve plenty of skilled American surgeons; I’m glad this man you write of is so kind and skilled, and I am sure China could use surgeons like him – probably more so than the U.S.A.

    Everyone can point to this or that foreigner and argue he should be admitted. He contributes; he’s a swell guy. That’s all beside the point. The country is full. Continuing exponential growth currently fueled by migration is deteriorating everyone’s quality of life and straining finite resources. Raj the Mechanic, your Chinese surgeon…they are each just one more bottle of Gatorade.

    As to whether I have any qualms about those not the posterity of founding stock? Things seeemed indeed to go fairly well until about the late nineteenth centurey. But we are full up. We have been for some time. Even Steve (far more generous than I am on this matter) has pointed out that just because it may have been salubrious, or at least benign, to do a thing in the past, is not reason to do it in the present.

    Continuing the theme of surgeons: mine pumped me full of antibiotics via an IV drip two weeks ago during my surgery and for a day afterward before discharging me, because he cut a hole in me then put a bunch of metal inside that hole before stitching it closed. At that time those antibiotics were most welcome: they ensured my safety from devastating bacterial infections. I no longer take antibiotics; if I pumped myself full of antibiotics still, after the time at which they were helpful has passed, I would only succeed in devastating my own immune system, possibly harming my liver, and breeding über-bacteria immune to antibiotics.

    Likewise, continuing influxes are devastating the infrastructure, harming the very ecology of the nation, and breeding more and more emboldened invaders by the moment.

    The party’s got out of hand, didn’t it? It’s time for the adults to shoo away the invitees, toss out the gatecrashers, and lock the front door.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Autochton is right.

    And regarding the surgeon anecdote in particular, it is very cool that this immigrant felt a sense of obligation to the country and to its people. Sense of duty toward the people, rather than contempt, is especially rare these days. However, we have American talent we can train for those skills and American wealth we can use to entice physicians to undeserved areas if need be.

  160. @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?

    In all fairness, while working one’s way through the paperwork and application process for either private or elite public schools may seem like no big deal, it is stuff like this that the parents (or school counselors) of smart black kids may have little clue about. If some bright black kid has, at best, an overworked single mom as his parent, there may be no awareness that Dalton or Horace Mann even exist. My guess is that upward-striving white or asian parents likely have more awareness of the options than black or hispanic parent(s).

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I volunteered for a charity a quarter of a century ago that sent smart poor 8th graders in Chicago public schools to private high schools. There was a lot of competition with other charities for the best ones.
  161. @Homer Badman
    OT: A while ago on this blog someone posted a YouTube video of two young white American girls speaking fluent Mandarin Chinese. I think their dad was a long time Hong Kong resident and they were raised in China but details escape me. I want to show this to someone else but can no longer find it - has it been taken off YT?

    They live in Singapore and their father is investor Jim Rogers. He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    167 Triumph104 > He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.


    but they'll never do Singapore National Service, so they'll always be foreign monkeys. Won't even have the right to buy an insurance policy or open a bank account, much less the right to get an "after-school job".

    Plus, they MOST likely have a Filipina Governess who is a different from the two Indonesian maids who take care of the household. AND they've never seen their mom wash a dish or iron their school uniform - so I pity the guy who ends up marrying them......

    To be honest, I've never been to PRC, but I somehow doubt that having a hundred words of academically-correct Mandarin will help you from getting ripped of by Beijing taxi driver or plumber. The Hokkien-speaking Singapore taxi drivers certainly don't have any problem detecting, who are the anchor-baby women from the real SE of China.

    Israel is smaller than New Jersey, but the TelAviv kids can tell just by listening, who went to school in Jerusalem.
    , @Karl
    167 Triumph104 > He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.


    but they'll never do Singapore National Service, so they'll always be foreign monkeys. Won't even have the right to buy an insurance policy or open a bank account, much less the right to get an "after-school job".

    Plus, they MOST likely have a Filipina Governess who is a different from the two Indonesian maids who take care of the household. AND they've never seen their mom wash a dish or iron their school uniform - so I pity the guy who ends up marrying them......

    To be honest, I've never been to PRC, but I somehow doubt that having a hundred words of academically-correct Mandarin will help you from getting ripped of by Beijing taxi driver or plumber. The Hokkien-speaking Singapore taxi drivers certainly don't have any problem detecting, who are the anchor-baby women from the real SE of China.

    Israel is smaller than New Jersey, but the TelAviv kids can tell just by listening, who went to school in Jerusalem.
  162. @Bernardista
    "And lets be clear. Companies today just want “grinders” who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn’t complain and is disposable."

    LOL ! Have you read any job ads lately? You will see the same code popping up in the employment section when they describe the ideal candidate: "must be able to multitask, work without supervision, be a team player, etc..." !

    Meaning you will get little to no training, do the work of more than one person (because they do not want to spend money on hiring enough staff), and be available 24-7.

    Job postings, eh? Yeah, recruiters, like salesmen, are widely and rightly storied for their honesty and integrity. Have you worked a corporate job lately?

    Allow me to provide a glossary:

    Team Player: One who does whatever he is told without questioning, deviating, or in any other way seeming more motivated or effective than his supervisor or otherwise complicating the system

    Multitask: Do the work of three people under impossible deadlines; i.e., since physchological research has empircally demonstrated again and again that actual, effective multitasking is damn near impossible without detriment to each task, work eighty hour weeks

    Work Without Supervision: See Team Player, supra

    In other words: employers absolutely seek grinding automatons for the vast majority of work….

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    • Replies: @Bernardista
    You absolutely nailed it.

    I worked in a place like that once, but mercifully I got kicked out very quickly (for being disrespectful.)
  163. @countenance
    It goes back to my point about the definition of diversity being a moving goalpost. Diversity can mean whatever you want it to mean or whatever you don't want it to mean at any one point in time to suit whatever loaded agenda you're packing.

    "Diversity in the American population" means all non-whites.

    "Diversity in politics" means anyone other than cishet white men and their cishet white wives.

    "Diversity in NYCDE exclusive high schools" means blacks and Hispanics only. Asians aren't diverse.

    "Diversity in Silicon Valley" means blacks, Hispanics and women. Asian men aren't diverse.

    "Diversity in Major League Baseball" means only domestic American-born blacks born to black people who have been here since before 1808.

    I recall the late Johnnie Cochran’s exultant comment when the O.J. Simpson jury was selected. Cochran gloated “We have a diverse jury.”

    The jury was 75 % black.

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  164. @Laugh Track

    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?
     
    In all fairness, while working one's way through the paperwork and application process for either private or elite public schools may seem like no big deal, it is stuff like this that the parents (or school counselors) of smart black kids may have little clue about. If some bright black kid has, at best, an overworked single mom as his parent, there may be no awareness that Dalton or Horace Mann even exist. My guess is that upward-striving white or asian parents likely have more awareness of the options than black or hispanic parent(s).

    I volunteered for a charity a quarter of a century ago that sent smart poor 8th graders in Chicago public schools to private high schools. There was a lot of competition with other charities for the best ones.

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  165. Twinkie says:
    @education realist
    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.

    "note that there is no clear line between “gaming the system” and “working really hard and studying a lot”."

    Actually there is, but it's one people don't like to acknowledge. Working really hard and studying a lot is a great idea if you are actually better informed, erudite, impressive in the depth and breadth of your knowledge. That's how European cultures think.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than "will this be on the test"?

    And so, in their own way, Asians become peers that white parents don't want their kids to have.

    Finally, best I can tell, the test is designed to advantage Asians. A kid who gets a near perfect score on math but below average in verbal will make the cut off. A kid who gets near perfect scores in both won't. Steve, I know you wrote about this back in 2012. I have been searching endlessly and can find no evidence that they have changed their test scores. And I can find no mention of the man who uncovered it. All the cites go back to the 2005 article. But the cites continue through 2014. I've seen no mention of it being disproved or changed.

    This isn't only a slight advantage to Asians. It's a huge advantage. And I'm shocked that news of it is basically blanked out these days.

    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.

    Could you please clarify your numbers? Are you saying that: a few years ago, with equal number of white/asian students, twice as many Asians took the specialized high school tests as whites did (“2:1 Asian”)? Or are you saying that twice as many whites tested for the schools as Asians did? I need you to use your awesome white verbal skills and make the sentence clearer for my verbally-deficient Asian brain.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.

    Because of your blind hatred of Asians, you are confusing race with class here. Specialized high schools such as Bronx High and (my alma mater) Stuyvesant, even back some thirty plus years ago when I attended, were not uppercrust white magnets. Ever since their admissions became merit-based, they have been magnets for poor, but smart pupils, which in NYC usually meant immigrant children (plus some “ethnic” whites, usually Jews, occasionally Irish-Italian). Unless the parents had a particularly egalitarian ethos or ideology, wealthy, established white parents sent their progeny to posh prep schools, not Brooklyn Tech.

    What’s happened over the last three decades or so has been that the white population in NYC has turned increasingly uppercrust, with a corresponding decline in the percentages of poor and lower middle class whites. Meanwhile, due to increasing Chinese and Indian immigration, the number of lower and middle class (but cognitively better off) “Asian” students has exploded. That explains the increasing Asianization of these public schools rather than some race-based white exodus away from Asian students*. Indeed, these specialized schools still boast sizable contingents of immigrant *whites* whose demographic profiles are similar to those of Asian immigrants, i.e. high IQ, but low socio-economic status. Often they are Russians or Russian Jews.

    In other words, this is in the main a class-based development in the guise of a racial one. High status, high wealth Asian parents in NYC don’t send their children to the public specialized schools either – they send their kids to prep schools as their white counterparts do. Most of these prep schools are already 15-20% Asian.

    *To the extent that there is white exodus, it is that middle class whites no longer find NYC affordable. But this is the case of parents leaving the city and taking their kids with them, rather than middle class white parents taking children out of the public schools and putting them in private schools to avoid Asians while still staying in the city.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than “will this be on the test”?

    This is a breathtakingly obtuse or deceptive statement. Truly audacious (chutzpah!) in its mendacity and scale of claim (if you want to lie, lie big?).

    My (white) wife and I are multiple Ivy alumns and have been interviewing high school students for the past quarter century or so. Regardless of race, almost all high school students demonstrate these credentialist deficiencies combined with Establishment moral platitudes. Among hundreds my wife and I interviewed over the years, consistently the one group of students who have demonstrated desire for learning in the loftiest sense of word has been homeschooled children. But then we know what your view of homeschooling and homeschooling parents is, don’t we? “Fools” is one epithet you used.

    Now, instead of a clearly hyperbolic and unintelligent statement such as “Asians care only about how they do on tests,” you were to say that credentialism appears to be a stronger force in East Asian cultures, I might agree. But even then it is within the realm of the malleable. For example, credentialism is over-the-top in still-developing China, which is a mercantilist dog-eat-dog world (literally and figuratively). But in the more established Japan, on the other hand, credentialism is much weaker or ameliorated. For example, the people who actually run Japan – the bureaucratic class – is famously made up of almost fetishtic hobbyists – it’s easy to run into a Japanese bureaucrat in, say, the ministry of foreign affairs, who is obsessed with the Blues, Judo or English gardening, that belie the stereotype of grade-fixated Asian nerds (South Korea is in-between; now that it is a wealthy country with leisure, kids such as this – i.e. those who show interests in things other than, or in addition to, academic excellence is becoming less unusual: https://youtu.be/WfTZ5iIUn4s).

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    • Replies: @Triumph104

    Because of your blind hatred of Asians, you are confusing race with class here. Specialized high schools such as Bronx High and (my alma mater) Stuyvesant, even back some thirty plus years ago when I attended, were not uppercrust white magnets.
     
    Everything you said is 100% right. Believe it or not, education realist is confusing New York City's specialized high schools with Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in suburban Fairfax County, VA. In the last five years the number of whites applying to the school has dropped by 35% while the number of Asians applying has increased. I mentioned this on education realist's blog before she told me to piss-off on another matter.

    TJHSST is an affluent high school. Instead traveling up to an hour each way to grind with the tiger cubs of doctors and engineers, many white kids in the county have decided to attend their own affluent majority-white neighborhood high school. Things got bad a couple of years ago when a South Korea-born student at TJHSST lied and said that both Harvard and Stanford would let her attend each school for two years then at the end of four years she could decide from which school she wanted her degree. It made national news in South Korea and Stanford had to announce that they had no such program. She had even attended the visit day for accepted students at each campus although neither college had accepted her. Finally the girl got on the school's intranet and pretended that she was a Harvard professor. To make matters even worse, that was the same year an Indian girl from TJHSST actually got into all eight Ivy League colleges.
  166. “I’m curious how parents working in dry clean shops would nonetheless have money apparently available from a wealthy family back home specifically allocated for children to prep schools.”

    Me, too. But that it happens is indisputable. I don’t live in NYC, but those papers report on it constantly, and I see it here as well.

    SP Moore,

    I teach at a Title I school, kids are about 30-30-30-10 white, Hispanic, Asian, black. And not too many of the high achieving Asians. So no. My kids are not mostly above average.

    Incidentally, I’d love to think that high achieving low income blacks can write their own tickets, but I’ve seen otherwise.

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  167. Lord, Twinkie, I don’t hate Asians. But I have to admit I don’t like you very much.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I don’t hate Asians.
     
    Indeed, you have claimed that you love your Asian students. But you forget that in an unguarded moment you also wrote that you try to make their lives as miserable as possible. I didn't even have to respond to that comment - another commenter called you out as "a nasty human being."

    But I have to admit I don’t like you very much.
     
    Clearly. You don't like it when your hyperbolic claims are punctured full of holes. Sorry the rest of us worked hard to get where we are instead of "having a life" while in high school as you apparently did.

    You know, if you were actually interested in a genuine exchange/debate of ideas, information, and data, I'd be happy to oblige, as I have been always. But that would require you to respond in an intellectually honest manner instead of calling me (as you have in the past) names such as "liar" and "fool" and otherwise catering to an audience that just can't stand the fact that whites may not be the best at everything.
  168. Twinkie says:
    @education realist
    "Google, and most other tech companies, don’t care at all about test scores."

    Hahahahaha. Good one.

    I want to reiterate that yes, Chinese/Korean/Indian IQs are high, East Asians IQs are higher than whites on average. But it doesn't lead reliably to the same results, the results that we expect from high IQs. Similarly, I think, black IQs are lower than whites but that doesn't reliably lead to the same results. Whites with a 75 IQ are mostly non-functional; blacks with a 75 IQ are,well, Muhammed Ali.

    So when we say that test scores are a proxy for IQ, we're talking about what was long assumed to be true--a high IQ usually meant deep content knowledge, strong abstraction ability in visual, logic, and verbal fields, etc. Abstraction = good.

    The possibility that some races would be able to abstract without leading to the same depth, or that others would not be able to abstract while still being able to maintain high competence--well, it never occurred to anyone.

    Also--a logical question that Razib Khan always asks is shouldn't Asians be underrepresented in key areas and shouldn't they be having troubles in college? Well, I think they are underrepresented in many fields, but it's hard to tell because we are constantly importing Asians to take over jobs and it's hard to tell which is what. I also think Asians are having trouble in college, but the HUGE issue here is that colleges started changing their demands rather than fail Asians in huge numbers. This has likewise happened in high school, particularly in high-achieving high schools.

    But I don't have hard data, and it's fair enough to doubt me. But live in a high Asian immigration area in US for a while and your doubts may....lessen.

    Also–a logical question that Razib Khan always asks is shouldn’t Asians be underrepresented in key areas and shouldn’t they be having troubles in college? Well, I think they are underrepresented in many fields, but it’s hard to tell because we are constantly importing Asians to take over jobs and it’s hard to tell which is what.

    As usual you distort what actually happened to fit your preconceived agenda. What Razib Khan and I both asked you was to produce data that display *mismatch* commensurate with your claims. In other words, if Asians, as you have claimed repeatedly, are beneficiaries of widespread cheating whose actual abilities/performance and test scores/grades show a great deal of divergence, then such a disparity would show up as mismatch, i.e. substantially lower follow-up performances (at the university and graduate levels). What “evidence” you provided in response (dropout rate et al.) was somewhat contradictory. Indeed the data seem to indicate that there is the opposite of mismatch, no mismatch or the mismatch, if any, is quite small, certainly not enough to warrant your breathtaking claims (such as that the SAT is meaningless for evaluating Asians due to cheating, their different IQ, or what have you).

    I also think Asians are having trouble in college, but the HUGE issue here is that colleges started changing their demands rather than fail Asians in huge numbers.

    Let me get this straight. Now that you can’t demonstrate mismatch, your claim is now that Asians are failing, but that their failures are being covered up by Asian-friendly universities. You may wish to look up circular reasoning.

    Of course, your terminology is (perhaps intentionally) imprecise and opaque here. The Asians who are “having trouble” are usually Chinese international students at low status universities (usually mid- to low-tier public state schools) that are handing out American credentials for woefully prepared Chinese students in return for full tuition. But that, while an important and thorny issue of today, is not something that encompasses all or even most “Asian” students in the United States, and certainly not Asian-Americans. At most elite or high status universities, American-born Asians still outnumber foreign ones (and the foreign ones are much better prepared than their counterparts at less prestigious universities; many are graduates of “international” high schools in their home countries or are from prep schools in the U.S. or the UK).

    But I don’t have hard data

    You did, in the past. It’s just that the data your put forth didn’t jive with what you claim.

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  169. @anonymouslee
    The Tiger Mom herself, a yale law professor, is rather below par for the gene pool her kids are swimming in.

    Their dad was a REAL star at Harvard law school and is a constitutional law professor at Yale purely on merit as one of the smartest legal minds in the world (Chua got spousal consideration).

    chuas father is a legitimate genius of world historical importance: "He is a professor in the electrical engineering and computer sciences department at the University of California, Berkeley, which he joined in 1971. He has contributed to nonlinear circuit theory and cellular neural network (CNN) theory.[2] He is also the inventor and namesake of Chua's circuit[3] one of the first and most widely known circuits to exhibit chaotic behavior, and was the first to conceive the theories behind, and postulate the existence of, the memristor.[4] Thirty-seven years after he predicted its existence, a working solid-state memristor was created by a team led by R. Stanley Williams at Hewlett Packard"

    Chua also has some siblings more intellectually impressive than she is (Stanford medical researchers or whatever)


    So maybe the tiger momming wasn't strictly necessary for her kids to do well in high school? At least, perhaps we shouldn't take the kids modest suçcess as evidence for the benefits of being a highly annoying parent. Chua might have realized this when her more successful husband pointed out his liberal jewish-american family didn't need to tiger mom him. But then again Amy never did live up to her father's expectations.

    One of the smartest legal minds in the world (Chua got spousal consideration).

    I’ve begun to wonder what it means to have a “smart legal mind”? Is that someone good at memorizing rules? Good at manipulating rules?

    If that is what it is, it doesn’t seem commensurate with the virtue and praise embodied in phrases like “brilliant legal mind.”

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    • Replies: @lavoisier
    That is an excellent observation.

    Saying that Thomas Jefferson or John Locke had a brilliant legal mind means a lot more than saying that a law professor at Yale had a brilliant legal mind.

    What exactly does that mean?

    In the modern age we equate position and prestige with genius. They are separate things. Indeed, given kin selection and monolithic groupthink at the most prestigious universities today, genius may be an endangered species in the exact environment where one assumes it can be found most readily.

  170. @keuril
    At the very top schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford), being a legacy of a parent who only has a graduate degree from the school does not count as an advantageous legacy; the parent needs to have an undergrad degree from the school.

    However, having a parent who is a prof at the school is a huge advantage, especially if it's a superstar prof. Having said that, iirc Tiger Mom's kids got into multiple top schools, so they probably got in on merit.

    As for Asian/white multiracial, it's not an advantage. Probably the expectations are similar to those for Asians (i.e., slightly higher than for whites), because that's what the talent pool for this group is. All schools break this category out separately in the CDS. In Harvard's most recent CDS, multiracial were 6.6% of undergrads.
    http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2014-15.pdf

    While Asians have the highest average test scores of all groups, I'd say it's slightly harder to get in as an unhooked white student because so many hooks (legacy, athletic recruits to blue blood sports, development) are white.

    Within Asians, it's hardest to get in as Chinese or Korean.

    Probably Asia/white multiracials are squeezing Whites out of the White quota. It doesn’t feel like a brazen lie to just check “White” on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It doesn’t feel like a brazen lie to just check “White” on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.
     
    Asian-white mixes in the U.S. consistently identify themselves as white at higher rates than, say, Hispanic-white mixes do. In fact, even pure-blooded Asians, if they were American-born, tend to identify as whites at higher rates than American-born Hispanics. I provided the data for this a while back.

    This is also consistent with the fact that American-born Asians become monolingually English speaking at much higher rates than Hispanic ones and display much higher rates of civic assimilation.*

    *With the usual caveat that there is a significant divergence among the various different Asian groups.
  171. @Anonymous
    Mass immigration from Asia is a just another kind of disaster for America. Whites are being demographically boiled like frogs and the fading perception of affordability is creeping up through the classes even into the Upper West Side.

    Could you please elaborate? Thanks.

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  172. @phil
    Some HBDers do not mind high-IQ, non-white immigrants. Other HBDers believe that thorough-going ethnic diversity leads to a more fractious society, even if the immigrants are hard-working and have high IQs.

    As to the former, what is their telos, their conception of the good?

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    • Replies: @Jacobite
    http://kingofwallpapers.com/grace-kelly/grace-kelly-001.jpg
  173. @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    A troubling commentary.

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  174. Twinkie says:
    @education realist
    Lord, Twinkie, I don't hate Asians. But I have to admit I don't like you very much.

    I don’t hate Asians.

    Indeed, you have claimed that you love your Asian students. But you forget that in an unguarded moment you also wrote that you try to make their lives as miserable as possible. I didn’t even have to respond to that comment – another commenter called you out as “a nasty human being.”

    But I have to admit I don’t like you very much.

    Clearly. You don’t like it when your hyperbolic claims are punctured full of holes. Sorry the rest of us worked hard to get where we are instead of “having a life” while in high school as you apparently did.

    You know, if you were actually interested in a genuine exchange/debate of ideas, information, and data, I’d be happy to oblige, as I have been always. But that would require you to respond in an intellectually honest manner instead of calling me (as you have in the past) names such as “liar” and “fool” and otherwise catering to an audience that just can’t stand the fact that whites may not be the best at everything.

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  175. @Autochthon
    I don't think you are bad man as such. I only emphasise that working harder isn't the same as working smarter, and by your own admission you yourself represent the gimmick of grinding by Asians which so many would pass off as some kind of innate genius.

    More critically, the behaviour is decreasing standards of living and health for the reasons I enumerated. Again, that does not make you an immoral individual, but it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.

    My thanks for the kind words.

    But as Jack D more or less noted, sometimes working harder is indeed not really different from working smarter; it, too, may be hereditary(the ability to endure boredom). And its hard to argue that I necessarily contributed to the net disutility to the US insofar as I contributed to the success of projects and corporations, which were American owned, and therefore more competitive as a whole.

    Insofar as it being zero sum, if I was not present, the answer isn’t quite that I would simply be replaced by someone from the Native Born White American section – indeed, the company I was with lost their contract that which I was the main consultant soon after I left. For the particular price point and talent, it would seem that I was not just all that replaceable.

    So, I suppose, how would making a contract unprofitable and thus lose business for the company have benefitted the US? After sufficient losses of high performers later in the year, the corporation ended up laying off almost half of the department. That would seem to have resulted in a net loss of jobs, not a gain.

    I should add, that I do know that I have contributed to downsizing myself as one of my favorite things to do was to introduce automation; I might have been a bit more modest about my capabilities. But if I was not there to introduce automation, the only alternate options would be that someone else would(causing the same loss of jobs) or that it wouldn’t be implemented at all, resulting in decreased profits and overall loss of market share(and layoffs).

    One can never accurately predict the past or possibilities, but I do not see how I contributed to net disutility, in such.

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  176. @Daniel Chieh
    You will forgive me if I do not feel like apologizing for working harder. Nothing which I did was either illegal or meant in ill intent.

    I’m not sure that is relevant to the point he is trying to make.

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  177. Twinkie says:
    @Opinionator
    Probably Asia/white multiracials are squeezing Whites out of the White quota. It doesn't feel like a brazen lie to just check "White" on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.

    It doesn’t feel like a brazen lie to just check “White” on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.

    Asian-white mixes in the U.S. consistently identify themselves as white at higher rates than, say, Hispanic-white mixes do. In fact, even pure-blooded Asians, if they were American-born, tend to identify as whites at higher rates than American-born Hispanics. I provided the data for this a while back.

    This is also consistent with the fact that American-born Asians become monolingually English speaking at much higher rates than Hispanic ones and display much higher rates of civic assimilation.*

    *With the usual caveat that there is a significant divergence among the various different Asian groups.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    I do appreciate a willingness to assimilate.
    , @Opinionator
    If someone of East Asian origin completely and sincerely identifies as White, I would consider him to be White.
  178. Daniel, like Twinkie, seems incapable of making it anything other than All About Him.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    My apologies if it seemed that I made overt use of personal experience, as that was not my intent, but empirically, I'm most familiar with myself and thus seek to elucidate understanding from such.

    You've used examples from your life as well, I imagine, for a similar purpose.

    , @Twinkie

    Daniel, like Twinkie, seems incapable of making it anything other than All About Him.
     
    But he, unlike the so-called "education realist," seems to insist on such Western scientific concepts as evidence for hypothesis and such. But he's probably not capable of such abstract thinking on his own and is merely aping.

    What's your excuse for avoiding the substance of the discussion and consistently falling back on ad hominem? Were you busy "having a life" in high school math/logic class?

  179. @SPMoore8
    Thanks. I personally don't quite get the racial disparities argument as you state it, but that's on me, not you.

    However, the fact of the matter is whether you have the Knowledge (with a capital K) by brute force or by picked up along the way genius, you are still very likely to be a relative success in any knowledge game in town. I think the cutoff point will involve judgment and people skills, which probably explains the lack of non-whites in managerial or leadership positions. (Another cutoff will involve a willingness to simply live your career, which a lot of people, especially very bright people, aren't always willing to do.)

    I mean, it sounds like your kids are generally all above average; and in most fields, most of the time, that's what counts. After that, it's mostly about hard work and good life habits, along with a little luck. I mean, again, we're mostly talking about guys shooting for above average earnings and a middle class life. We're not creating a template for Nobel prize winners.

    As to the over-representation of Asians, I don't know. I will say that their handling of numbers tends to be a little dogmatic. I have generally assigned it to cultural rigidity.

    a willingness to simply live your career

    What is this?

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    • Replies: @Spmoore8
    Basically workaholics. Yes, I know many great geniuses have been. But lack of balance between career, family, friends, and other interests leads to many problems later.
  180. @education realist
    Daniel, like Twinkie, seems incapable of making it anything other than All About Him.

    My apologies if it seemed that I made overt use of personal experience, as that was not my intent, but empirically, I’m most familiar with myself and thus seek to elucidate understanding from such.

    You’ve used examples from your life as well, I imagine, for a similar purpose.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You’ve used examples from your life as well, I imagine, for a similar purpose.
     
    Her life is real, so she is entitled to use her life stories to make broader points. But Asian life is fake life, so you don't get the same courtesy.

    Besides, if you do what she does, it's just white aping. That's cheating/gaming, so it just goes to prove what she says.
  181. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    I don't think you are bad man as such. I only emphasise that working harder isn't the same as working smarter, and by your own admission you yourself represent the gimmick of grinding by Asians which so many would pass off as some kind of innate genius.

    More critically, the behaviour is decreasing standards of living and health for the reasons I enumerated. Again, that does not make you an immoral individual, but it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.

    Did you fight against Cornwallis?

    And what about the descendants of Cornwallis? Wouldn’t you prefer that latter as immigrants over nonwhites?

    BTW, I agree with you on at least one thing – immigration restrictionism – even for high IQ Asians (so much for my Asian “shilling”). But my agreement on that score is not based on “fighting Cornwallis” as such, but on factors such as 1) assimilability and 2) net benefit to the existing citizenry.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion. (You're a military historian, so doubtless you are familiar with the seige of Charleston.) A few years later, they met "to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity," they "ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America."

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet's overpopulation by Asians.

    You are the posterity of some guy on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I don't know what he may have left for you, but you are welcome to it; I won't show up on an airplane claiming it for myself tomorrow and demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren't entitled to.

  182. @Triumph104
    I can't speak for Hispanics, but I noticed that the difference between native blacks and immigrant blacks is that black immigrants make the effort to learn the system and figure out their best options. The Jamaican girl's father asked someone at work what school his daughter should attend and less than 6 months after she arrived in the United States she took the SHSAT which got her into Stuyvesant then she was accepted into Yale.

    Last year a black girl from Guyana who attended one of New York City's specialized high schools got into all 8 Ivys plus MIT. She came to the US at age 11 and her mother is a nurse's aide who works two jobs but they had no problem figuring out the system.

    http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/07/pf/college/kelly-hyles-college/

    They took seats that could have gone to native born Americans.

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  183. Twinkie says:
    @education realist
    Daniel, like Twinkie, seems incapable of making it anything other than All About Him.

    Daniel, like Twinkie, seems incapable of making it anything other than All About Him.

    But he, unlike the so-called “education realist,” seems to insist on such Western scientific concepts as evidence for hypothesis and such. But he’s probably not capable of such abstract thinking on his own and is merely aping.

    What’s your excuse for avoiding the substance of the discussion and consistently falling back on ad hominem? Were you busy “having a life” in high school math/logic class?

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  184. @Triumph104
    Several dozen private schools offer scholarships, not just the three he mentioned. Only 194 black kids received an offer to a specialized high school (some of the black test takers are already in private school). Private schools can take in the top half of scorers with no problem.

    Prep for Prep currently has over 700 kids in 50 or 60 different schools. At least a third of the 700 are black and Prep for Prep isn't the only program placing scholarship students.

    http://www.prepforprep.org/podium/default.aspx?t=126418

    Former Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick went to boarding school through A Better Chance.

    http://abetterchance.org/abetterchance.aspx?pgID=868

    This kid turned down Stuyvesant to go to boarding school, Northfield Mount Hermon, in MA through the program Breakthrough New York. He was one of 7 black kids who got into Stuyvesant that year.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-whiz-kid-bypasses-top-city-school-mass-academy-article-1.2057716

    Northfield Mount Hermon

    That’s where Edward Said went.

    He felt alienated.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Sixty-five years later Northfield Mount Hermon is known, to me at least, as the school where wanna-be Ivy League athletes spend their fifth year of high school to get their grades and SAT scores up. Princeton just advanced to the NCAA tournament and one of the basketball players spent his fourth and fifth years of high school at NMH.
  185. @Jack D
    My take on it was that they stopped him from taking the cigarillos earlier in the day and then later he came back to try it again. I have never heard of a drug dealer trading weed for cigarillos - usually they prefer cash. Even it if it true, it means that "Obama's son" was a drug dealer. I'm not sure how this makes him a more sympathetic character.

    The whole strong arm robbery thing was really a side show. The real stuff began when the gently giant tried to reach into the police car and take the officer's gun away from him. The instant you do that, all bets are off and indeed at that point he had 90 seconds to live. I don't know whether the officer overreacted or not (the grand jury said not) but if you try to take an officer's gun away from him and you don't succeed, you are really asking for it (you are asking for it anyway because a lot of officers carry a secondary weapon for just such situations). Regardless of any legal niceties, the officer will rightly take this as a sign that you intend to kill him and will act accordingly to do what he perceives is necessary to save his own life, which he values much more than your sorry ass.

    Not only that, but didn’t the gun in fact discharge inside the vehicle during the struggle?

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  186. @Autochthon
    I appreciate your point, but we've plenty of skilled American surgeons; I'm glad this man you write of is so kind and skilled, and I am sure China could use surgeons like him – probably more so than the U.S.A.

    Everyone can point to this or that foreigner and argue he should be admitted. He contributes; he's a swell guy. That's all beside the point. The country is full. Continuing exponential growth currently fueled by migration is deteriorating everyone's quality of life and straining finite resources. Raj the Mechanic, your Chinese surgeon...they are each just one more bottle of Gatorade.

    As to whether I have any qualms about those not the posterity of founding stock? Things seeemed indeed to go fairly well until about the late nineteenth centurey. But we are full up. We have been for some time. Even Steve (far more generous than I am on this matter) has pointed out that just because it may have been salubrious, or at least benign, to do a thing in the past, is not reason to do it in the present.

    Continuing the theme of surgeons: mine pumped me full of antibiotics via an IV drip two weeks ago during my surgery and for a day afterward before discharging me, because he cut a hole in me then put a bunch of metal inside that hole before stitching it closed. At that time those antibiotics were most welcome: they ensured my safety from devastating bacterial infections. I no longer take antibiotics; if I pumped myself full of antibiotics still, after the time at which they were helpful has passed, I would only succeed in devastating my own immune system, possibly harming my liver, and breeding über-bacteria immune to antibiotics.

    Likewise, continuing influxes are devastating the infrastructure, harming the very ecology of the nation, and breeding more and more emboldened invaders by the moment.

    The party's got out of hand, didn't it? It's time for the adults to shoo away the invitees, toss out the gatecrashers, and lock the front door.

    Autochton is right.

    And regarding the surgeon anecdote in particular, it is very cool that this immigrant felt a sense of obligation to the country and to its people. Sense of duty toward the people, rather than contempt, is especially rare these days. However, we have American talent we can train for those skills and American wealth we can use to entice physicians to undeserved areas if need be.

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  187. @Twinkie

    It doesn’t feel like a brazen lie to just check “White” on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.
     
    Asian-white mixes in the U.S. consistently identify themselves as white at higher rates than, say, Hispanic-white mixes do. In fact, even pure-blooded Asians, if they were American-born, tend to identify as whites at higher rates than American-born Hispanics. I provided the data for this a while back.

    This is also consistent with the fact that American-born Asians become monolingually English speaking at much higher rates than Hispanic ones and display much higher rates of civic assimilation.*

    *With the usual caveat that there is a significant divergence among the various different Asian groups.

    I do appreciate a willingness to assimilate.

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  188. Spmoore8 says:
    @Opinionator
    a willingness to simply live your career

    What is this?

    Basically workaholics. Yes, I know many great geniuses have been. But lack of balance between career, family, friends, and other interests leads to many problems later.

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  189. @Discordiax
    "If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?"

    Because if your middle school guidance counselor knew how to work the system well enough to hook you up at an elite prep school, he or she wouldn't be stuck as a guidance counselor in a New York public middle school?

    By contrast, helping your gifted class fill out the couple of pages of forms to take the citywide standardized test is pretty easy.

    Dalton has 141 blacks out of 1300 total students, more than it has Asians.

    I’m sure Dalton employs staffers to keep the Diversity pipeline full.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Dalton has a day-long diversity conference every year. Reporter Deborah Roberts, wife of TV weatherman Al Roker, was a speaker one year. Dalton still has the video on their website even though Robert's daughter left the school after the eighth grade to attend a performing arts high school. Dalton gets hard in the middle school years and the girl couldn't keep up so she voluntarily left. Some children are asked to leave before their high school years start.

    Obviously the Rokers didn't use financial aid, so Dalton had a black family paying full tuition and making additional donations for K-8 which probably later went to finance the 4-year scholarship of the smart black quota student who replaced the Roker girl.

    https://www.dalton.org/page/about/community-life-equity--diversity/from-diversity-to-community-conference#

  190. Twinkie says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    My apologies if it seemed that I made overt use of personal experience, as that was not my intent, but empirically, I'm most familiar with myself and thus seek to elucidate understanding from such.

    You've used examples from your life as well, I imagine, for a similar purpose.

    You’ve used examples from your life as well, I imagine, for a similar purpose.

    Her life is real, so she is entitled to use her life stories to make broader points. But Asian life is fake life, so you don’t get the same courtesy.

    Besides, if you do what she does, it’s just white aping. That’s cheating/gaming, so it just goes to prove what she says.

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  191. Clyde says:
    @Triumph104
    Valerie Jarrett has already been on the show. Her DNA is 49% European, 46% Sub Saharan African, and 5% Native American. (Stanford, University of Michigan Law School) (Jarrett's daughter: University of Chicago Lab School, Amherst, Harvard Law)

    Cory Booker has a similar makeup: 47% African, 45% European, 7% Native American. (Stanford, Oxford, Yale Law School)

    Valerie Jarrett has already been on the show. Her DNA is 49% European, 46% Sub Saharan African

    The test should be redone.

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  192. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Rod1963
    Price for importing monied Chinese and other Asians.

    I really got to hand it to the HBD crowd, they bitch and moan about 3rd worlders invading the U.S. but turn a blind eye to all Chinese and Brahmans that are coming in by virtue of their IQ.

    IQ doesn't make them our friends or allies, but competitors for the same set of limited resources and that long term they will slit our throats economically and politically due to their tribal natures which modern educated whites totally lack.

    I think many people here have problems with importing a new elite. Further, it creates a brain drain from the countries they leave.

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  193. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Daniel H
    >>This didn’t bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student’s homes for the team, and my son wasn’t invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn’t invited because he is white.

    This is just the beginning of the Asians flexing their muscles. Get used to it. That said, I do hope that Asians destroy the Ivy league. No other institution in America needs to be cut off at the knees more than the Ivys. Trump should go after his enemies where it really hurts. Initiate a department of Justice suit against all the Ivys for illegal discrimination against Asian applicants. You know, what Conan said. Let's go for the good in life.

    Initiate a department of Justice suit against all the Ivys for illegal discrimination against Asian applicants.

    Asians are over-represented at Ivy League schools. They are not illegally discriminated against. These schools have always (or at least used to) express their desire to have somewhat of a balanced student population. When I was looking at colleges, the colleges emphasized that they were looking for more than just high grades and high test scores, even though grades and test scores were certainly very important.

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  194. @Twinkie

    A few years ago, the number of whites and Asians testing to get into the NYC schools was 2:1 Asian, even though whites and Asians were equally represented in NYC school district. Now, there are more Asians testing, 1.64:1, even though there are 5% *fewer* Asians in the school district.
     
    Could you please clarify your numbers? Are you saying that: a few years ago, with equal number of white/asian students, twice as many Asians took the specialized high school tests as whites did ("2:1 Asian")? Or are you saying that twice as many whites tested for the schools as Asians did? I need you to use your awesome white verbal skills and make the sentence clearer for my verbally-deficient Asian brain.

    Asians have made the 8 specialized schools unattractive to whites.
     
    Because of your blind hatred of Asians, you are confusing race with class here. Specialized high schools such as Bronx High and (my alma mater) Stuyvesant, even back some thirty plus years ago when I attended, were not uppercrust white magnets. Ever since their admissions became merit-based, they have been magnets for poor, but smart pupils, which in NYC usually meant immigrant children (plus some "ethnic" whites, usually Jews, occasionally Irish-Italian). Unless the parents had a particularly egalitarian ethos or ideology, wealthy, established white parents sent their progeny to posh prep schools, not Brooklyn Tech.

    What's happened over the last three decades or so has been that the white population in NYC has turned increasingly uppercrust, with a corresponding decline in the percentages of poor and lower middle class whites. Meanwhile, due to increasing Chinese and Indian immigration, the number of lower and middle class (but cognitively better off) "Asian" students has exploded. That explains the increasing Asianization of these public schools rather than some race-based white exodus away from Asian students*. Indeed, these specialized schools still boast sizable contingents of immigrant *whites* whose demographic profiles are similar to those of Asian immigrants, i.e. high IQ, but low socio-economic status. Often they are Russians or Russian Jews.

    In other words, this is in the main a class-based development in the guise of a racial one. High status, high wealth Asian parents in NYC don't send their children to the public specialized schools either - they send their kids to prep schools as their white counterparts do. Most of these prep schools are already 15-20% Asian.

    *To the extent that there is white exodus, it is that middle class whites no longer find NYC affordable. But this is the case of parents leaving the city and taking their kids with them, rather than middle class white parents taking children out of the public schools and putting them in private schools to avoid Asians while still staying in the city.

    Asians care only about how they do on tests. And so, time and again, for the past 30 years, colleges and now high schools are dealing with students who have impressive test scores and transcripts, but have little background knowledge, abysmal writing skills, and no interest in any topic other than “will this be on the test”?
     
    This is a breathtakingly obtuse or deceptive statement. Truly audacious (chutzpah!) in its mendacity and scale of claim (if you want to lie, lie big?).

    My (white) wife and I are multiple Ivy alumns and have been interviewing high school students for the past quarter century or so. Regardless of race, almost all high school students demonstrate these credentialist deficiencies combined with Establishment moral platitudes. Among hundreds my wife and I interviewed over the years, consistently the one group of students who have demonstrated desire for learning in the loftiest sense of word has been homeschooled children. But then we know what your view of homeschooling and homeschooling parents is, don't we? "Fools" is one epithet you used.

    Now, instead of a clearly hyperbolic and unintelligent statement such as "Asians care only about how they do on tests," you were to say that credentialism appears to be a stronger force in East Asian cultures, I might agree. But even then it is within the realm of the malleable. For example, credentialism is over-the-top in still-developing China, which is a mercantilist dog-eat-dog world (literally and figuratively). But in the more established Japan, on the other hand, credentialism is much weaker or ameliorated. For example, the people who actually run Japan - the bureaucratic class - is famously made up of almost fetishtic hobbyists - it's easy to run into a Japanese bureaucrat in, say, the ministry of foreign affairs, who is obsessed with the Blues, Judo or English gardening, that belie the stereotype of grade-fixated Asian nerds (South Korea is in-between; now that it is a wealthy country with leisure, kids such as this - i.e. those who show interests in things other than, or in addition to, academic excellence is becoming less unusual: https://youtu.be/WfTZ5iIUn4s).

    Because of your blind hatred of Asians, you are confusing race with class here. Specialized high schools such as Bronx High and (my alma mater) Stuyvesant, even back some thirty plus years ago when I attended, were not uppercrust white magnets.

    Everything you said is 100% right. Believe it or not, education realist is confusing New York City’s specialized high schools with Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in suburban Fairfax County, VA. In the last five years the number of whites applying to the school has dropped by 35% while the number of Asians applying has increased. I mentioned this on education realist’s blog before she told me to piss-off on another matter.

    TJHSST is an affluent high school. Instead traveling up to an hour each way to grind with the tiger cubs of doctors and engineers, many white kids in the county have decided to attend their own affluent majority-white neighborhood high school. Things got bad a couple of years ago when a South Korea-born student at TJHSST lied and said that both Harvard and Stanford would let her attend each school for two years then at the end of four years she could decide from which school she wanted her degree. It made national news in South Korea and Stanford had to announce that they had no such program. She had even attended the visit day for accepted students at each campus although neither college had accepted her. Finally the girl got on the school’s intranet and pretended that she was a Harvard professor. To make matters even worse, that was the same year an Indian girl from TJHSST actually got into all eight Ivy League colleges.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Everything you said is 100% right. Believe it or not, education realist is confusing New York City’s specialized high schools with Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in suburban Fairfax County, VA.
     
    I doubt she is familiar with either school except what she has read on the Internet. From what I can tell, she is Norcal-based and appears to presume the rest of the country resembles it (at least educationally, certainly in terms of Asians in America).

    TJHSST is an affluent high school.
     
    Yup. NoVA Asians are not NYC Asians or even L.A. Asians, as latter groups tend to contain many low status FOB immigrants. NoVA, on the other hand, has a very affluent Asian population - even FOB immigrants tend to be highly educated.

    Instead traveling up to an hour each way to grind with the tiger cubs of doctors and engineers, many white kids in the county have decided to attend their own affluent majority-white neighborhood high school.
     
    And many of those schools have substantial Asian populations of their own, though obviously not at the level of TJ. That's not a surprise, of course, given that Great Falls (Great Falls HS) and McLean (Langley HS) both have about 15%+ Asians. The Asian student population fraction is probably significantly greater than that for the general population.

    Overall Asians in Northern Virginia tend to be very well assimilated. Of course that is changing rapidly as the "Asian" population in the region turns increasingly South Asian. There are subdivisions in areas such as Ashburn along the Dulles Tech Corridor that is now 70%+ Indian.
  195. yoyo says:
    @Homer Badman
    OT: A while ago on this blog someone posted a YouTube video of two young white American girls speaking fluent Mandarin Chinese. I think their dad was a long time Hong Kong resident and they were raised in China but details escape me. I want to show this to someone else but can no longer find it - has it been taken off YT?

    President Trump’s granddaughter speaking Mandrin will have more impact.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Is there a reason why you posted a video of a reporter speaking English instead of Trump's granddaughter speaking Mandarin?
  196. @Steve Sailer
    Northfield Mount Hermon

    That's where Edward Said went.

    He felt alienated.

    Sixty-five years later Northfield Mount Hermon is known, to me at least, as the school where wanna-be Ivy League athletes spend their fifth year of high school to get their grades and SAT scores up. Princeton just advanced to the NCAA tournament and one of the basketball players spent his fourth and fifth years of high school at NMH.

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  197. Twinkie says:
    @Triumph104

    Because of your blind hatred of Asians, you are confusing race with class here. Specialized high schools such as Bronx High and (my alma mater) Stuyvesant, even back some thirty plus years ago when I attended, were not uppercrust white magnets.
     
    Everything you said is 100% right. Believe it or not, education realist is confusing New York City's specialized high schools with Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in suburban Fairfax County, VA. In the last five years the number of whites applying to the school has dropped by 35% while the number of Asians applying has increased. I mentioned this on education realist's blog before she told me to piss-off on another matter.

    TJHSST is an affluent high school. Instead traveling up to an hour each way to grind with the tiger cubs of doctors and engineers, many white kids in the county have decided to attend their own affluent majority-white neighborhood high school. Things got bad a couple of years ago when a South Korea-born student at TJHSST lied and said that both Harvard and Stanford would let her attend each school for two years then at the end of four years she could decide from which school she wanted her degree. It made national news in South Korea and Stanford had to announce that they had no such program. She had even attended the visit day for accepted students at each campus although neither college had accepted her. Finally the girl got on the school's intranet and pretended that she was a Harvard professor. To make matters even worse, that was the same year an Indian girl from TJHSST actually got into all eight Ivy League colleges.

    Everything you said is 100% right. Believe it or not, education realist is confusing New York City’s specialized high schools with Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in suburban Fairfax County, VA.

    I doubt she is familiar with either school except what she has read on the Internet. From what I can tell, she is Norcal-based and appears to presume the rest of the country resembles it (at least educationally, certainly in terms of Asians in America).

    TJHSST is an affluent high school.

    Yup. NoVA Asians are not NYC Asians or even L.A. Asians, as latter groups tend to contain many low status FOB immigrants. NoVA, on the other hand, has a very affluent Asian population – even FOB immigrants tend to be highly educated.

    Instead traveling up to an hour each way to grind with the tiger cubs of doctors and engineers, many white kids in the county have decided to attend their own affluent majority-white neighborhood high school.

    And many of those schools have substantial Asian populations of their own, though obviously not at the level of TJ. That’s not a surprise, of course, given that Great Falls (Great Falls HS) and McLean (Langley HS) both have about 15%+ Asians. The Asian student population fraction is probably significantly greater than that for the general population.

    Overall Asians in Northern Virginia tend to be very well assimilated. Of course that is changing rapidly as the “Asian” population in the region turns increasingly South Asian. There are subdivisions in areas such as Ashburn along the Dulles Tech Corridor that is now 70%+ Indian.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Would you say that subcon Asians tend to assimilate less than NE Asians?
  198. @yoyo
    President Trump's granddaughter speaking Mandrin will have more impact.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJmqwumR_8

    Is there a reason why you posted a video of a reporter speaking English instead of Trump’s granddaughter speaking Mandarin?

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  199. Karl says:
    @Steve Sailer
    If you are a smart black kid in NYC you can likely get a full ride to Dalton or Horace Mann or Ethical Culture or Collegiate or some other utopian private school. So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President's son?

    8 iSteve > So why go to Stuyvesant or some other public school with a lot of Asian grinds when you can go to a NYC private school with the President’s son?

    because it’s better for getting into CalTech or MIT. Where you won’t have to compete with the Obama girls for the best internships.

    And…. because you can get to the campus(es) on public transportation, which runs 24 hours a day. So you can stay late for the differential-equations club, if you want.

    Who here, can name the subway stop that serves Bronx High School of Science without using a map?

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  200. @Steve Sailer
    Dalton has 141 blacks out of 1300 total students, more than it has Asians.

    I'm sure Dalton employs staffers to keep the Diversity pipeline full.

    Dalton has a day-long diversity conference every year. Reporter Deborah Roberts, wife of TV weatherman Al Roker, was a speaker one year. Dalton still has the video on their website even though Robert’s daughter left the school after the eighth grade to attend a performing arts high school. Dalton gets hard in the middle school years and the girl couldn’t keep up so she voluntarily left. Some children are asked to leave before their high school years start.

    Obviously the Rokers didn’t use financial aid, so Dalton had a black family paying full tuition and making additional donations for K-8 which probably later went to finance the 4-year scholarship of the smart black quota student who replaced the Roker girl.

    https://www.dalton.org/page/about/community-life-equity–diversity/from-diversity-to-community-conference#

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    • Replies: @Ed
    I used to work at a bank that the Rokers banked at. Their oldest daughter is adopted although I think they later had another child or two through surrogacy. Rumor at the time was the adopted daughter was a handful, hopefully she grew out of it.
  201. @Twinkie

    Everything you said is 100% right. Believe it or not, education realist is confusing New York City’s specialized high schools with Thomas Jefferson High School of Science and Technology in suburban Fairfax County, VA.
     
    I doubt she is familiar with either school except what she has read on the Internet. From what I can tell, she is Norcal-based and appears to presume the rest of the country resembles it (at least educationally, certainly in terms of Asians in America).

    TJHSST is an affluent high school.
     
    Yup. NoVA Asians are not NYC Asians or even L.A. Asians, as latter groups tend to contain many low status FOB immigrants. NoVA, on the other hand, has a very affluent Asian population - even FOB immigrants tend to be highly educated.

    Instead traveling up to an hour each way to grind with the tiger cubs of doctors and engineers, many white kids in the county have decided to attend their own affluent majority-white neighborhood high school.
     
    And many of those schools have substantial Asian populations of their own, though obviously not at the level of TJ. That's not a surprise, of course, given that Great Falls (Great Falls HS) and McLean (Langley HS) both have about 15%+ Asians. The Asian student population fraction is probably significantly greater than that for the general population.

    Overall Asians in Northern Virginia tend to be very well assimilated. Of course that is changing rapidly as the "Asian" population in the region turns increasingly South Asian. There are subdivisions in areas such as Ashburn along the Dulles Tech Corridor that is now 70%+ Indian.

    Would you say that subcon Asians tend to assimilate less than NE Asians?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Would you say that subcon Asians tend to assimilate less than NE Asians?
     
    To the extent that assimilation can be objectively measured with proxies, the answer is yes. The Manhattan Institute has been running an index of immigration assimilation for years. See: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/cr_76.pdf

    However, it should be noted that there is considerable inter- *and* intra-regional variance. Among the ten largest immigrant groups (as of 2011), five - Canadians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Koreans, and Cubans - tend to assimilate at substantially higher rates than the remaining five - Chinese, Indians, Salvadorans, Mexicans, and Guatemalans.
  202. @Autochthon
    Job postings, eh? Yeah, recruiters, like salesmen, are widely and rightly storied for their honesty and integrity. Have you worked a corporate job lately?

    Allow me to provide a glossary:

    Team Player: One who does whatever he is told without questioning, deviating, or in any other way seeming more motivated or effective than his supervisor or otherwise complicating the system

    Multitask: Do the work of three people under impossible deadlines; i.e., since physchological research has empircally demonstrated again and again that actual, effective multitasking is damn near impossible without detriment to each task, work eighty hour weeks

    Work Without Supervision: See Team Player, supra

    In other words: employers absolutely seek grinding automatons for the vast majority of work....

    You absolutely nailed it.

    I worked in a place like that once, but mercifully I got kicked out very quickly (for being disrespectful.)

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  203. Karl says:

    Ivy League degree??!?

    If I was forced to hire Americans for Unit 8200, I wouldn’t go by college-attended.

    I’d headhunt amongst ROTC grads who completed US Navy Nuke School and or Naval PostGraduate School in STEM

    Ordinary US technical rating schools used to be rather good, but they’ve dumbed them ALL the way down for political reasons.

    Around here, we can just put the Ethiopians into the Border Police. That’s some Direct Interface with the Enemy, Jack

    They’re usually happy to get the extra pay & GI benefits that a Combat-Arms ID-holder gets

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  204. @ic1000
    Selim Algar's Post piece is peppered with action words: dominate, stampede, elite, jubilant, ultra-competitive.

    The Gray Lady's promise: less information and snoozy prose!

    That’s what happens when less and less news is “fit to print”

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  205. Karl says:
    @anonymous
    It's likely that an important factor in "real big-impact creativity" is the ability to work self-directed on a difficult problem or area for decades without burnout. Avoiding burnout is critical. In the long run all this early concentration on tests may just contribute to burnout. It's a common problem in a lot of places.

    Would Newton have achieved all he did if he hadn't "wasted" so much time on alchemy?

    Would Copernicus have laboured for decades on his problem if he hadn't been distracted by tumultuous (and sometimes violent) politics?

    Would Napier have worked for so long on logarithms if he hadn't also been writing religious tracts?

    etc..

    Dunno.

    72 anonymous > Would Newton have achieved all he did if he hadn’t “wasted” so much time on alchemy?

    well, he never wasted his youth chasing skirts like I did, so no wonder he had the time to become part of the Deep State of his day.

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  206. Karl says:
    @Triumph104
    They live in Singapore and their father is investor Jim Rogers. He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.

    https://youtu.be/xxl-pbHalqI

    167 Triumph104 > He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.

    but they’ll never do Singapore National Service, so they’ll always be foreign monkeys. Won’t even have the right to buy an insurance policy or open a bank account, much less the right to get an “after-school job”.

    Plus, they MOST likely have a Filipina Governess who is a different from the two Indonesian maids who take care of the household. AND they’ve never seen their mom wash a dish or iron their school uniform – so I pity the guy who ends up marrying them……

    To be honest, I’ve never been to PRC, but I somehow doubt that having a hundred words of academically-correct Mandarin will help you from getting ripped of by Beijing taxi driver or plumber. The Hokkien-speaking Singapore taxi drivers certainly don’t have any problem detecting, who are the anchor-baby women from the real SE of China.

    Israel is smaller than New Jersey, but the TelAviv kids can tell just by listening, who went to school in Jerusalem.

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  207. Karl says:
    @Triumph104
    They live in Singapore and their father is investor Jim Rogers. He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.

    https://youtu.be/xxl-pbHalqI

    167 Triumph104 > He had them learn Mandarin so they will be globally competitive.

    but they’ll never do Singapore National Service, so they’ll always be foreign monkeys. Won’t even have the right to buy an insurance policy or open a bank account, much less the right to get an “after-school job”.

    Plus, they MOST likely have a Filipina Governess who is a different from the two Indonesian maids who take care of the household. AND they’ve never seen their mom wash a dish or iron their school uniform – so I pity the guy who ends up marrying them……

    To be honest, I’ve never been to PRC, but I somehow doubt that having a hundred words of academically-correct Mandarin will help you from getting ripped of by Beijing taxi driver or plumber. The Hokkien-speaking Singapore taxi drivers certainly don’t have any problem detecting, who are the anchor-baby women from the real SE of China.

    Israel is smaller than New Jersey, but the TelAviv kids can tell just by listening, who went to school in Jerusalem.

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  208. @Twinkie

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.
     
    Did you fight against Cornwallis?

    And what about the descendants of Cornwallis? Wouldn't you prefer that latter as immigrants over nonwhites?

    BTW, I agree with you on at least one thing - immigration restrictionism - even for high IQ Asians (so much for my Asian "shilling"). But my agreement on that score is not based on "fighting Cornwallis" as such, but on factors such as 1) assimilability and 2) net benefit to the existing citizenry.

    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion. (You’re a military historian, so doubtless you are familiar with the seige of Charleston.) A few years later, they met “to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity,” they “ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America.”

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet’s overpopulation by Asians.

    You are the posterity of some guy on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I don’t know what he may have left for you, but you are welcome to it; I won’t show up on an airplane claiming it for myself tomorrow and demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren’t entitled to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion.
     
    That was not the question asked. You wrote:

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.
     
    And I asked:

    Did you fight against Cornwallis?
     
    But, you get the point. So what is your plan? To expel all Americans whose ancestry is not 100% American c. 1776? Do you yourself qualify for that? Are you 100% descended from ancestors who were all in America c. 1776?

    A few years later, they met “to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity,” they “ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America.”
     
    I believe one of the said people, one James Madison said:

    It is no doubt very desirable that we should hold out as many inducements as possible for the worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours. But why is this desirable? Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community are not the people we are in want of.
     
    It seems to me that Madison, far from restricting future citizenship to those who were descended only from the Americans of 1776, wanted immigration, albeit (wisely enough) a highly selective one.

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet’s overpopulation by Asians.
     
    I don't know where you've been in the past twenty years, but East Asian population is projected to decline in the coming decades due to low fertility.

    demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren’t entitled to.
     
    And what special preferences have I demanded?

    You’re a military historian
     
    Correction. I *was* a military historian. Subsequently I left academia (largely because I was given the impression that my conservative views would be "problematic" with receiving tenture) and chose another career that sent me around the globe hunting terrorists who attacked America. I left my blood and bits of my flesh overseas in that endeavor (thus ending that career), but, notwithstanding my love of this country, its people, and the sacred oath I took to defend them and the Constitution, I will always be an "invading Oriental," eh?
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I'm curious, then - would you also argue that blacks have more of a right to American legacy than say, the Irish? I've actually heard this before, though mostly historically, with the similar argument that the blacks have at least been here longer and for better or worse, have contributed significantly to the American culture - if only in the sense that their presence led to the Civil War, increasing federalism, and innumerable other laws and regulation.
  209. Twinkie says:
    @Opinionator
    Would you say that subcon Asians tend to assimilate less than NE Asians?

    Would you say that subcon Asians tend to assimilate less than NE Asians?

    To the extent that assimilation can be objectively measured with proxies, the answer is yes. The Manhattan Institute has been running an index of immigration assimilation for years. See: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/pdf/cr_76.pdf

    However, it should be noted that there is considerable inter- *and* intra-regional variance. Among the ten largest immigrant groups (as of 2011), five – Canadians, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Koreans, and Cubans – tend to assimilate at substantially higher rates than the remaining five – Chinese, Indians, Salvadorans, Mexicans, and Guatemalans.

    Read More
  210. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion. (You're a military historian, so doubtless you are familiar with the seige of Charleston.) A few years later, they met "to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity," they "ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America."

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet's overpopulation by Asians.

    You are the posterity of some guy on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I don't know what he may have left for you, but you are welcome to it; I won't show up on an airplane claiming it for myself tomorrow and demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren't entitled to.

    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion.

    That was not the question asked. You wrote:

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.

    And I asked:

    Did you fight against Cornwallis?

    But, you get the point. So what is your plan? To expel all Americans whose ancestry is not 100% American c. 1776? Do you yourself qualify for that? Are you 100% descended from ancestors who were all in America c. 1776?

    A few years later, they met “to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity,” they “ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America.”

    I believe one of the said people, one James Madison said:

    It is no doubt very desirable that we should hold out as many inducements as possible for the worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours. But why is this desirable? Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community are not the people we are in want of.

    It seems to me that Madison, far from restricting future citizenship to those who were descended only from the Americans of 1776, wanted immigration, albeit (wisely enough) a highly selective one.

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet’s overpopulation by Asians.

    I don’t know where you’ve been in the past twenty years, but East Asian population is projected to decline in the coming decades due to low fertility.

    demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren’t entitled to.

    And what special preferences have I demanded?

    You’re a military historian

    Correction. I *was* a military historian. Subsequently I left academia (largely because I was given the impression that my conservative views would be “problematic” with receiving tenture) and chose another career that sent me around the globe hunting terrorists who attacked America. I left my blood and bits of my flesh overseas in that endeavor (thus ending that career), but, notwithstanding my love of this country, its people, and the sacred oath I took to defend them and the Constitution, I will always be an “invading Oriental,” eh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Your concluding reasoning is flawed. My avowed love for Melissa Joan Hart or Hayden Panettiere gives me no claim to their affections, much less their persons.

    Your opening assertion is obtuse. You asked if I fought Cornwallis. No living person has fought Cornwallis, so my point in raising the matter was obviously to enquire what persons have claim to the fruits if his defeat. Lest anyone doubt, his vanquishers took the trouble to memorialise their intended beneficieraries in writing.

    Everything in between your obtuse opening and your fallacious closing is superfluous.
    , @Desiderius
    Whatever.

    The way it works is that immigration policy goes in cycles, from loose to tight and back again.

    You can get a majority behind having a tight period, which is in any case overdue.

    It's never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.
  211. @Twinkie

    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion.
     
    That was not the question asked. You wrote:

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.
     
    And I asked:

    Did you fight against Cornwallis?
     
    But, you get the point. So what is your plan? To expel all Americans whose ancestry is not 100% American c. 1776? Do you yourself qualify for that? Are you 100% descended from ancestors who were all in America c. 1776?

    A few years later, they met “to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity,” they “ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America.”
     
    I believe one of the said people, one James Madison said:

    It is no doubt very desirable that we should hold out as many inducements as possible for the worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours. But why is this desirable? Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community are not the people we are in want of.
     
    It seems to me that Madison, far from restricting future citizenship to those who were descended only from the Americans of 1776, wanted immigration, albeit (wisely enough) a highly selective one.

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet’s overpopulation by Asians.
     
    I don't know where you've been in the past twenty years, but East Asian population is projected to decline in the coming decades due to low fertility.

    demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren’t entitled to.
     
    And what special preferences have I demanded?

    You’re a military historian
     
    Correction. I *was* a military historian. Subsequently I left academia (largely because I was given the impression that my conservative views would be "problematic" with receiving tenture) and chose another career that sent me around the globe hunting terrorists who attacked America. I left my blood and bits of my flesh overseas in that endeavor (thus ending that career), but, notwithstanding my love of this country, its people, and the sacred oath I took to defend them and the Constitution, I will always be an "invading Oriental," eh?

    Your concluding reasoning is flawed. My avowed love for Melissa Joan Hart or Hayden Panettiere gives me no claim to their affections, much less their persons.

    Your opening assertion is obtuse. You asked if I fought Cornwallis. No living person has fought Cornwallis, so my point in raising the matter was obviously to enquire what persons have claim to the fruits if his defeat. Lest anyone doubt, his vanquishers took the trouble to memorialise their intended beneficieraries in writing.

    Everything in between your obtuse opening and your fallacious closing is superfluous.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Your concluding reasoning is flawed. My avowed love for Melissa Joan Hart or Hayden Panettiere gives me no claim to their affections, much less their persons.
     
    Unless of course you were adopted into the Hart or Panettiere families, in which cases you would have both legal and moral rights and obligations as an equal member of the said families.

    Lest anyone doubt, his vanquishers took the trouble to memorialise their intended beneficieraries in writing.
     
    Yes, and the same vanquishers then decided to "[induce] worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours."

    Everything in between your obtuse opening and your fallacious closing is superfluous.
     
    Perhaps it would helpful for this dialog and certainly for my understanding of your position if you were to be more transparent and specific in your desired goals instead of using opaque anaologies. What exactly is your plan, again? To disenfranchise all those American citizens whose ancestry is not 100% American c. 1776 and to expel them (where)? Or is it merely to recognize your (current) fellow citizens as peers worthy of your due consideration and, for our shared unity and benefit, to restrict further immigration?

    Because of your emotive statements (e.g. "fight against Cornwallis," "demand... special preferences," "invading Orientals," etc.), I am not clear on exactly what your desired goal is here.
  212. Tiny Duck says:
    @Autochthon
    I was homeless three times as a child. I have vivid memories of sleeping on the floorboard of a car (the hump housing the transmisson hurt). From about the age of eight, I cared for myself after school, often into the night and my bedtime, because my mother was working two jobs. That didn't keep her from finding tike to beat the shit out of me, though; the first bloody nose I can remember came at her hands when I was about four.

    I realised in adolescence that by educating myself I could escape the Hell I'd been born into. A National Merit Scholar, I finished nearly my entirely freshman year of college during high school via the Advanced Placement Program: Biology, American History, English, Government – all 5s. I earned an academic scholarship at the state's flagship public university, maintaining it and graduating summa cum laude in under four years, all while working forty hours a week (much more than that in summers, not at cushy interships, but as a pipefitter's helper on construction-sites). When I graduated I still couldn't get work, so I enlisted in the United States' Navy. All that while, even into my time as an undergraduate, I was defending myself against intermittent violent assaults by Negroes given every break and every benefit of the doubt in the schools simply for being Negroes. Special programs over summers to prepare them, designated tutors and mentors. Scholarships and housing set aside just for them.

    Three times in my adult life setbacks such as layoffs and pay-cuts led to my being homeless again. Once I slept on sidewalks. Another time I was blessed to have a friend's couch. The last time I slept in a tent, and later, a van.

    I ultimately earned two graduate degrees and bought a house.

    You know what I didn't do? I never bitched about the colour of my skin, my familial background, and how poor I was.

    I don't write this to brag; it's not even a particularly impressive life in any event. Any number of people reading it have had crazier lives. I write it to illustrate the cry of But Poverty! is horseshit.

    They wuz kangz anyway; that legacy surely equips then to overcome We wuz slaves.

    They were slaves nearly two centuries ago; they've been free longer than Russia's serfs.

    If you are white and not succusful….

    Im sorry but youre a loser

    Im sorry to hear about your situation but remember that People of Color have it ten times as hard but without the structural benefits of being white

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  213. @Twinkie

    we already have that 6 foot 10 inch millionaire with tactical weapons skills and a hot wife guy named Twinkie
     
    I was never taller than 6' 3" and that was when I was younger and probably early in the morning before spine compression set in. I am closer to 6' 2" now (the funny thing was that I was the shortest kid in my first grade class in East Asia - I sat up front). I am tall-ish, not freakishly tall. That is to say, tall enough to be uncomfortable in a turboprop.

    But the rest, jawohl.

    And just weapons skills - "tactical" is redundant. I am also pretty handy in a fight without weapons (not that you'd ever find me without one).

    asian pride worldwide shill
     
    To the extent I have pride, it's in myself, in my own accomplishments, not in being "Asian" whatever that may mean.

    Is "shill" someone who makes you feel small and insecure?

    >To the extent I have pride, it’s in myself, in my own accomplishments, not in being “Asian” whatever that may mean.

    It’s shorthand for y’all playing captain save a Ho in every thread any time true stereotypes about asians come up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    true stereotypes about asians
     
    Black people have "true stereotypes" about white people. Do you subscribe to those as well? Are you always out to unfairly screw black people and rob them of their genius and intellectual accomplishments?
  214. MadDog says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Let's say you're running a 5 mile race and for the first 4 miles you are forced to wear 10 pound heavy weighted shoes.. Then you are allowed to take them off in the last mile. How would you feel if people yelled at you 'why haven't you caught up yet? What's wrong with you?'

    Segregation and redlining had severe effects that are ongoing. How much of your success is due to the fact that your parents were able to get a good education and provide you a good education (because you weren't forced to live in a ghetto)?


    The problem isn't Asians. It is white people getting preferential treatment

    Why then didn’t Africans have written languages? There were no great Universities there. No libraries. Anything modern in Africa was designed by white men.

    Tiny Duck, how do you explain the same behavioral patterns between recent African immigrants in Europe and African Americans here? Europe has the exact same academic and disciplinary problems with their Africans. As does Toronto!

    Genetics matter.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Tiny Duck is almost certainly a right-leaning troll who finds it amusing to get a lift out of other right-leaning persons, for what it is worth.
  215. Jacobite says:
    @Rod1963
    What you described is credentialism which is the defacto religion of modern China and now of the U.S.

    Asians are just more overt about it.

    Look lots of students in general aren't really interested in subjects, they just want to get it over with and get their degree(credential) which opens the proper doors for them. The more prestigious school you graduate from the more doors that it opens. It can mean the difference between a life time sinecure at AEI or working at a generic corporate giant in a Herman-Miller cube farm.

    This is why a lot folks with four year degrees are so damn ignorant outside their narrow specialty, They memorize just enough to pass the tests then quickly forget about the subject matter.

    And lets be clear. Companies today just want "grinders" who will put up with whatever shit management dishes out, works long hours, doesn't complain and is disposable.

    And that's considered to be a success in the U.S. you attend college, pile up a shit load of student debt, graduate, get a gig as a drone in a soul sucking cube farm that that eats at your physical and mental health while doing meaningless work. All the while wondering when your job gets off-shored. Then to compensate for this shit existence, you buy a expensive car to show off, maybe buy a bigger tract home than you can afford. All of which just makes you a even bigger wage slave.

    To top it off, you know you'll have to work until you die, but you know with the rampant age discrimination you'll be fired before 50 - probably by age 40. You'll be lucky to get a part time gig at a big box store as a greeter.

    Not much of a bargain if you ask me.

    LOL! Maybe you should have had a career where you could have worked outside.

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  216. Ed says:
    @Triumph104
    Dalton has a day-long diversity conference every year. Reporter Deborah Roberts, wife of TV weatherman Al Roker, was a speaker one year. Dalton still has the video on their website even though Robert's daughter left the school after the eighth grade to attend a performing arts high school. Dalton gets hard in the middle school years and the girl couldn't keep up so she voluntarily left. Some children are asked to leave before their high school years start.

    Obviously the Rokers didn't use financial aid, so Dalton had a black family paying full tuition and making additional donations for K-8 which probably later went to finance the 4-year scholarship of the smart black quota student who replaced the Roker girl.

    https://www.dalton.org/page/about/community-life-equity--diversity/from-diversity-to-community-conference#

    I used to work at a bank that the Rokers banked at. Their oldest daughter is adopted although I think they later had another child or two through surrogacy. Rumor at the time was the adopted daughter was a handful, hopefully she grew out of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Al Roker adopted his daughter with his first wife. Articles make it seem like the daughter grew up with Al. She does food work for the Today show. Deborah gave birth to the next two kids, no surrogacy. I have even seen video of her in the operating room after a c-section. Their son went to a special needs school, K-5, that only had about 90 students. At age three he couldn't walk or talk. He is now in public school.

    Lots of black celebrities with special needs kids. Bryant Gumbel said he had learning problems. His son went to a special needs college, yes, they exist, Lynn University in Florida. His daughter married a white guy. I think both were almost 30 and still in college. She attended Sarah Lawrence College, which will accept anyone with a pulse and doesn't require applicants to submit SAT or ACT scores.

  217. Jacobite says:
    @Opinionator
    As to the former, what is their telos, their conception of the good?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I could not find the button to Emphatically Agree.
    , @Opinionator
    This one went over my head.
  218. @Twinkie

    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion.
     
    That was not the question asked. You wrote:

    it makes Asians – none of whom fought against Cornwallis – just more unnecessary people contributing net disutility to the U.S.A.
     
    And I asked:

    Did you fight against Cornwallis?
     
    But, you get the point. So what is your plan? To expel all Americans whose ancestry is not 100% American c. 1776? Do you yourself qualify for that? Are you 100% descended from ancestors who were all in America c. 1776?

    A few years later, they met “to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity,” they “ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America.”
     
    I believe one of the said people, one James Madison said:

    It is no doubt very desirable that we should hold out as many inducements as possible for the worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours. But why is this desirable? Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community are not the people we are in want of.
     
    It seems to me that Madison, far from restricting future citizenship to those who were descended only from the Americans of 1776, wanted immigration, albeit (wisely enough) a highly selective one.

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet’s overpopulation by Asians.
     
    I don't know where you've been in the past twenty years, but East Asian population is projected to decline in the coming decades due to low fertility.

    demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren’t entitled to.
     
    And what special preferences have I demanded?

    You’re a military historian
     
    Correction. I *was* a military historian. Subsequently I left academia (largely because I was given the impression that my conservative views would be "problematic" with receiving tenture) and chose another career that sent me around the globe hunting terrorists who attacked America. I left my blood and bits of my flesh overseas in that endeavor (thus ending that career), but, notwithstanding my love of this country, its people, and the sacred oath I took to defend them and the Constitution, I will always be an "invading Oriental," eh?

    Whatever.

    The way it works is that immigration policy goes in cycles, from loose to tight and back again.

    You can get a majority behind having a tight period, which is in any case overdue.

    It’s never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    It’s never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.

     

    The Chinese have actually been pogromed now and then, e.g. Malaysia. If the Alt-Right succeeds fully in a fantasy world, I imagine something like that will happen, but I would still prefer that to the world of globalist social justice liberation.
  219. @MadDog
    Why then didn't Africans have written languages? There were no great Universities there. No libraries. Anything modern in Africa was designed by white men.

    Tiny Duck, how do you explain the same behavioral patterns between recent African immigrants in Europe and African Americans here? Europe has the exact same academic and disciplinary problems with their Africans. As does Toronto!

    Genetics matter.

    Tiny Duck is almost certainly a right-leaning troll who finds it amusing to get a lift out of other right-leaning persons, for what it is worth.

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  220. @Autochthon
    My ancestors fought under Francis Marion. (You're a military historian, so doubtless you are familiar with the seige of Charleston.) A few years later, they met "to establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to [them]selves and [their] Posterity," they "ordain[ed] and establish[ed] the United States of America."

    Nope; nothing there about facilitating the planet's overpopulation by Asians.

    You are the posterity of some guy on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. I don't know what he may have left for you, but you are welcome to it; I won't show up on an airplane claiming it for myself tomorrow and demanding to be treated with special preferences you aren't entitled to.

    I’m curious, then – would you also argue that blacks have more of a right to American legacy than say, the Irish? I’ve actually heard this before, though mostly historically, with the similar argument that the blacks have at least been here longer and for better or worse, have contributed significantly to the American culture – if only in the sense that their presence led to the Civil War, increasing federalism, and innumerable other laws and regulation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Yes. I do indeed believe that the descendents of Negroes (and Irishmen) present at the nation's founding have more right to be here than those arriving afterward (from Ireland, Africa, or elsewhere).

    I concede those very Negroes are far more pathological than many other latecomers, including you and most Orientals (I reserve judgement about the Twink...). As a matter of principle, though, their ancestors have built the nation from its beginnings; they were as much settlers and pioneers (albeit unwillingly) as their masters. I will add, though, that a viable, civil way to confront these problems was in place (twice!) until the totalitarians in Washington destroyed it (once in 1865, and again about a century later).

    The fellow who's granndpa came over on a steamer, much less the fellow who himself came over on an aeroplane, to an extant civilisation, be he a neurosurgeon and a saint, has less claim to the patrimony.

    What I think you may understand is that I've no quarrel with you. I expect if I met you in the street or at a party we could get on quite well. I've dated a lovely Singaporean gal, and two Mexicans (though they were utterly white). One of my best friends is from India. But, understanding the parable of Smith's Gatorade, I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what's more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.

  221. @Desiderius
    Whatever.

    The way it works is that immigration policy goes in cycles, from loose to tight and back again.

    You can get a majority behind having a tight period, which is in any case overdue.

    It's never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.

    It’s never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.

    The Chinese have actually been pogromed now and then, e.g. Malaysia. If the Alt-Right succeeds fully in a fantasy world, I imagine something like that will happen, but I would still prefer that to the world of globalist social justice liberation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    In regard to predicting Alt Right conduct and actual objectives, do you not think human behavior is contingent on circumstances? Does a person or a population not behave--and speak--differently when it is faced with a real and imminent existential threat than when it is not?
    , @Desiderius
    When did Malaysia become a state?

    You want to be an American, try to think like one.
  222. @Twinkie

    It doesn’t feel like a brazen lie to just check “White” on the box on the application if you are Asia/white mixed.
     
    Asian-white mixes in the U.S. consistently identify themselves as white at higher rates than, say, Hispanic-white mixes do. In fact, even pure-blooded Asians, if they were American-born, tend to identify as whites at higher rates than American-born Hispanics. I provided the data for this a while back.

    This is also consistent with the fact that American-born Asians become monolingually English speaking at much higher rates than Hispanic ones and display much higher rates of civic assimilation.*

    *With the usual caveat that there is a significant divergence among the various different Asian groups.

    If someone of East Asian origin completely and sincerely identifies as White, I would consider him to be White.

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  223. @Daniel Chieh

    It’s never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.

     

    The Chinese have actually been pogromed now and then, e.g. Malaysia. If the Alt-Right succeeds fully in a fantasy world, I imagine something like that will happen, but I would still prefer that to the world of globalist social justice liberation.

    In regard to predicting Alt Right conduct and actual objectives, do you not think human behavior is contingent on circumstances? Does a person or a population not behave–and speak–differently when it is faced with a real and imminent existential threat than when it is not?

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  224. benjaminl says:
    @Triumph104
    Several dozen private schools offer scholarships, not just the three he mentioned. Only 194 black kids received an offer to a specialized high school (some of the black test takers are already in private school). Private schools can take in the top half of scorers with no problem.

    Prep for Prep currently has over 700 kids in 50 or 60 different schools. At least a third of the 700 are black and Prep for Prep isn't the only program placing scholarship students.

    http://www.prepforprep.org/podium/default.aspx?t=126418

    Former Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick went to boarding school through A Better Chance.

    http://abetterchance.org/abetterchance.aspx?pgID=868

    This kid turned down Stuyvesant to go to boarding school, Northfield Mount Hermon, in MA through the program Breakthrough New York. He was one of 7 black kids who got into Stuyvesant that year.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-whiz-kid-bypasses-top-city-school-mass-academy-article-1.2057716

    There do appear to be a lot of these programs. Gee, I wonder how many are devoted to the welfare of white working class boys from West Virginia?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuestBridge

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Foundation

    http://www.collegehorizons.org/about

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  225. @Daniel Chieh

    It’s never gone retroactive, and there is nowhere near a majority to make it so now. Advocates for retroactivity are either false-flag globalists or spergy types with no influence.

     

    The Chinese have actually been pogromed now and then, e.g. Malaysia. If the Alt-Right succeeds fully in a fantasy world, I imagine something like that will happen, but I would still prefer that to the world of globalist social justice liberation.

    When did Malaysia become a state?

    You want to be an American, try to think like one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Spergs or not, you've surely seen some members of the Alt-Right who genuinely seek to deport all nonwhites from the country. Some of them also continue on to wish to deport all Irish, and then there are those who wish to deport all Irish and Southern Europeans.

    I could imagine them seeking to pogrom me, of course.

    As with you, though, I'm dubious that they will succeed. They are literally purity spiraling, both on a metaphorical as well as a genetic level.

    Insofar as the much more reasonable goal of restricting immigration and deporting illegals, I'm completely onboard with that. It seems irrational in the extreme to believe that we should welcome individuals who's first act in the country is to break her laws.
  226. @Desiderius
    When did Malaysia become a state?

    You want to be an American, try to think like one.

    Spergs or not, you’ve surely seen some members of the Alt-Right who genuinely seek to deport all nonwhites from the country. Some of them also continue on to wish to deport all Irish, and then there are those who wish to deport all Irish and Southern Europeans.

    I could imagine them seeking to pogrom me, of course.

    As with you, though, I’m dubious that they will succeed. They are literally purity spiraling, both on a metaphorical as well as a genetic level.

    Insofar as the much more reasonable goal of restricting immigration and deporting illegals, I’m completely onboard with that. It seems irrational in the extreme to believe that we should welcome individuals who’s first act in the country is to break her laws.

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  227. Coemgen says:

    There are members of the ctrl-left who genuinely seek to “pogrom” whites and appear to be having great success in doing so.

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  228. @Frau Katze
    I may not have answered your questions.

    The Chinese do not seem tribal the way Muslims are (marrying cousins). In fact, a not insignificant number marry whites.

    But Chinese society is a lot more corrupt than we are (were?).

    There are also complications: do they owe loyalty to Canada or China? I have no idea, but I'm sure many are still loyal to China.

    Clearly, importing hundreds of thousands in the space of 20 years or so wasn't really a good idea.

    Frau, Thank you.

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  229. @Daniel Chieh
    I'm curious, then - would you also argue that blacks have more of a right to American legacy than say, the Irish? I've actually heard this before, though mostly historically, with the similar argument that the blacks have at least been here longer and for better or worse, have contributed significantly to the American culture - if only in the sense that their presence led to the Civil War, increasing federalism, and innumerable other laws and regulation.

    Yes. I do indeed believe that the descendents of Negroes (and Irishmen) present at the nation’s founding have more right to be here than those arriving afterward (from Ireland, Africa, or elsewhere).

    I concede those very Negroes are far more pathological than many other latecomers, including you and most Orientals (I reserve judgement about the Twink…). As a matter of principle, though, their ancestors have built the nation from its beginnings; they were as much settlers and pioneers (albeit unwillingly) as their masters. I will add, though, that a viable, civil way to confront these problems was in place (twice!) until the totalitarians in Washington destroyed it (once in 1865, and again about a century later).

    The fellow who’s granndpa came over on a steamer, much less the fellow who himself came over on an aeroplane, to an extant civilisation, be he a neurosurgeon and a saint, has less claim to the patrimony.

    What I think you may understand is that I’ve no quarrel with you. I expect if I met you in the street or at a party we could get on quite well. I’ve dated a lovely Singaporean gal, and two Mexicans (though they were utterly white). One of my best friends is from India. But, understanding the parable of Smith’s Gatorade, I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what’s more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I understand your reasoning and the consistency of your premise. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
    , @Twinkie

    I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what’s more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.
     
    This begs two questions:

    1. Who are "my people" here?

    2. Fine with restricting further immigration. But what of non-whites who are already Americans?
    , @Twinkie

    I do indeed believe that the descendents of Negroes (and Irishmen) present at the nation’s founding have more right to be here than those arriving afterward (from Ireland, Africa, or elsewhere). [Boldface mine.]
     
    Here is the problem I have with this conception. From a legal point of view, citizenship is largely an "on-off" proposition. In other words, descendants of 1776 Americans are not entitled to more legal protection/rights today than those of 1885 Americans. There is no good way to calibrate citizenship rights* unless one wants to get into the business of "some animals are more equal than others." The last dispute over that ended up in a bloody mess c. 1865.

    What I would say about that is this: all citizens are equal under the law. But the heritage and tradition of some citizens - i.e. the citizens who descend from the founding stock of the country - are deserving of more respect, reverence, and adherence from the entire citizenry whatever their ancestral origins. Such heritage and traditions, though lacking the force of the law, ought to be preserved as the sacred emblems of the nation. In other words, at its core, this country is and should continue to be predominantly (though not exclusively) an Anglo-American nation, and Anglo-American civic and political traditions and liberties should predominate and persevere. And I would go further in stating that the preservation of such traditions is incompatible with mass immigration, especially from those lands with less compatible traditions, religions, and mores.

    However, this is quite a different thing than saying that one class of citizens, based on heritage, has more legal protection than another (e.g. validity as a witness in court and so on) or that only Anglo-Americans can be fully-vested peer-citizens.

    *Citizenship rights are legally separated by age, but that is, again, a largely "on-off" proposition based on sound scientific concepts of mental competence and maturity.
  230. @Ed
    I used to work at a bank that the Rokers banked at. Their oldest daughter is adopted although I think they later had another child or two through surrogacy. Rumor at the time was the adopted daughter was a handful, hopefully she grew out of it.

    Al Roker adopted his daughter with his first wife. Articles make it seem like the daughter grew up with Al. She does food work for the Today show. Deborah gave birth to the next two kids, no surrogacy. I have even seen video of her in the operating room after a c-section. Their son went to a special needs school, K-5, that only had about 90 students. At age three he couldn’t walk or talk. He is now in public school.

    Lots of black celebrities with special needs kids. Bryant Gumbel said he had learning problems. His son went to a special needs college, yes, they exist, Lynn University in Florida. His daughter married a white guy. I think both were almost 30 and still in college. She attended Sarah Lawrence College, which will accept anyone with a pulse and doesn’t require applicants to submit SAT or ACT scores.

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  231. @Jacobite
    http://kingofwallpapers.com/grace-kelly/grace-kelly-001.jpg

    I could not find the button to Emphatically Agree.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie
    You like people with dual allegiances so long as they are white and good-looking, eh?
  232. @Autochthon
    Yes. I do indeed believe that the descendents of Negroes (and Irishmen) present at the nation's founding have more right to be here than those arriving afterward (from Ireland, Africa, or elsewhere).

    I concede those very Negroes are far more pathological than many other latecomers, including you and most Orientals (I reserve judgement about the Twink...). As a matter of principle, though, their ancestors have built the nation from its beginnings; they were as much settlers and pioneers (albeit unwillingly) as their masters. I will add, though, that a viable, civil way to confront these problems was in place (twice!) until the totalitarians in Washington destroyed it (once in 1865, and again about a century later).

    The fellow who's granndpa came over on a steamer, much less the fellow who himself came over on an aeroplane, to an extant civilisation, be he a neurosurgeon and a saint, has less claim to the patrimony.

    What I think you may understand is that I've no quarrel with you. I expect if I met you in the street or at a party we could get on quite well. I've dated a lovely Singaporean gal, and two Mexicans (though they were utterly white). One of my best friends is from India. But, understanding the parable of Smith's Gatorade, I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what's more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.

    I understand your reasoning and the consistency of your premise. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

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  233. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    Your concluding reasoning is flawed. My avowed love for Melissa Joan Hart or Hayden Panettiere gives me no claim to their affections, much less their persons.

    Your opening assertion is obtuse. You asked if I fought Cornwallis. No living person has fought Cornwallis, so my point in raising the matter was obviously to enquire what persons have claim to the fruits if his defeat. Lest anyone doubt, his vanquishers took the trouble to memorialise their intended beneficieraries in writing.

    Everything in between your obtuse opening and your fallacious closing is superfluous.

    Your concluding reasoning is flawed. My avowed love for Melissa Joan Hart or Hayden Panettiere gives me no claim to their affections, much less their persons.

    Unless of course you were adopted into the Hart or Panettiere families, in which cases you would have both legal and moral rights and obligations as an equal member of the said families.

    Lest anyone doubt, his vanquishers took the trouble to memorialise their intended beneficieraries in writing.

    Yes, and the same vanquishers then decided to “[induce] worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours.”

    Everything in between your obtuse opening and your fallacious closing is superfluous.

    Perhaps it would helpful for this dialog and certainly for my understanding of your position if you were to be more transparent and specific in your desired goals instead of using opaque anaologies. What exactly is your plan, again? To disenfranchise all those American citizens whose ancestry is not 100% American c. 1776 and to expel them (where)? Or is it merely to recognize your (current) fellow citizens as peers worthy of your due consideration and, for our shared unity and benefit, to restrict further immigration?

    Because of your emotive statements (e.g. “fight against Cornwallis,” “demand… special preferences,” “invading Orientals,” etc.), I am not clear on exactly what your desired goal is here.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Please see my reply to another of your posts. I do not propose rounding up assimilated Chinese whose ancestors worked as coolies in California during the 1860s.

    For a better understanding of my references to Oriental invaders demanding special privileges, try booking a motel, getting clothing dry-cleaned, or procuring a pedicure from someone born in America.

    Then try purchasing a house in coastal California and see how many months or years it takes before an offer is accepted without being outbid by some Chinese embezzler paying cash of dubious origins. Or, if you are a kinesthetic learner, just take a stroll through San Francisco, Seattle, or eastern San José. San Diego's La Jolla and Mira Masia...er...Mira Mesa neighbourhoods also recommend themselves.

  234. Anon7 says:
    @Frau Katze
    And a lone Hindu amongst whites might not get invited to parties either.

    Conclusion: people prefer to live and associate with their own ethnic groups. It's blindingly obvious.

    Multiculturalism is crap. Diversity is not only not our strength, it's a terrible weakness.

    To me, the proof of the pudding (or the lack of it, in this case) is that my kids went to a high school in a college town full of very bright people from all over the world. Their kids went to high school with my kid.

    And when I asked my daughter if everyone sat together in multicultural bliss, she laughed and said, no, everyone sits with their friends. The white kids sit with the white kids, the black kids sit with the black kids, the asian kids sit with the asian kids.

    The children of the most ardent multiculturalists don’t accept different races. Go figure.

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  235. Twinkie says:
    @27 year old
    >To the extent I have pride, it’s in myself, in my own accomplishments, not in being “Asian” whatever that may mean.

    It's shorthand for y'all playing captain save a Ho in every thread any time true stereotypes about asians come up.

    true stereotypes about asians

    Black people have “true stereotypes” about white people. Do you subscribe to those as well? Are you always out to unfairly screw black people and rob them of their genius and intellectual accomplishments?

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  236. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    I could not find the button to Emphatically Agree.

    You like people with dual allegiances so long as they are white and good-looking, eh?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Dual allegiances? Monaco is a European principality which has never been anything but cordial and friendly to the U.S.A., as far as I know.

    You'll be scandalised to learn I also hold the Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier, the Marquis de Lafayette, in high esteem. Nor do I revile Joy Davidman.

    Your remark makes me wonder if you misunderstand my position. I hold no animus to Asians, Africans, not Australian aboriginals; I wish them all peace and prosperity in their own lands. My people, at ten per cent of the population and plummetting catastrophically, our lands being ravenously overpopulated by foreign invaders, and our societies besieged by interlopers both alien and domestic, are entitled to retain our ancestral lands.

    Indeed, my wrath is far greater with the collaborators in Washington than with the invaders themselves. But for the former, the whole affair could be stopped instantly using overwhelming military might to – and I know this is crazy talk! – secure the borders and defend the nation. (If only there were a department headed by a member of the cabinet and charged with the defense of the U.S.A., I wonder whatever would they would do...?)
  237. Anon7 says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Anon 7, If it makes you feel better the Mexican kids would have invited him to their birthday parties, but probably use him as a piñata.

    You’re probably right, but I live in a town with pretty effective wall. It’s called “high property taxes”. So I didn’t worry too much about it.

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  238. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    Yes. I do indeed believe that the descendents of Negroes (and Irishmen) present at the nation's founding have more right to be here than those arriving afterward (from Ireland, Africa, or elsewhere).

    I concede those very Negroes are far more pathological than many other latecomers, including you and most Orientals (I reserve judgement about the Twink...). As a matter of principle, though, their ancestors have built the nation from its beginnings; they were as much settlers and pioneers (albeit unwillingly) as their masters. I will add, though, that a viable, civil way to confront these problems was in place (twice!) until the totalitarians in Washington destroyed it (once in 1865, and again about a century later).

    The fellow who's granndpa came over on a steamer, much less the fellow who himself came over on an aeroplane, to an extant civilisation, be he a neurosurgeon and a saint, has less claim to the patrimony.

    What I think you may understand is that I've no quarrel with you. I expect if I met you in the street or at a party we could get on quite well. I've dated a lovely Singaporean gal, and two Mexicans (though they were utterly white). One of my best friends is from India. But, understanding the parable of Smith's Gatorade, I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what's more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.

    I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what’s more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.

    This begs two questions:

    1. Who are “my people” here?

    2. Fine with restricting further immigration. But what of non-whites who are already Americans?

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Concentric loyalties are always relevant to this question, so, in order, I suppose my people are:

    • Appalachians of Ulster-Scots Stock
    • Americans of (Celtic) European Stock
    • Europeans Writ Large & Their Diaspora

    My ethnicity as a Celt and my political allegiances as an American (especially the latter, as the government has now all but entirely betrayed its obligations under the social contract), are increasingly less important than my race, given the urgency of the situation and the need to stand together lest we hang separately.

    (Being of Celtic origin, I am especially sensitive to the genocide of a people and its culture, and what it means to have such tenuous numbers; Europeans are well on our way to what became of the Celts – if the former are lucky they will hold on to a few scattered enclaves as the latter have.)

    Desiderius and Daniel Chieh recently had an exhange relevant to your second question and I largely agree with what I remember of Desiderius' position: What's done is done. People who've immigrated (legally!) with the encouragement, permission, and blessings of previous regimes, some more than a century ago, ought probably be allowed to remain here; one cannot uncook the omelette.

    People who've come illegally or chosen not to assimilate (citizens and residents who won't learn English and bathe, or who march about waving foreign flags, I'm looking at you...) can be loaded into Globemasters and Galaxies bound for whatever place they are so eager to turn my country into.

    But under the current circumstances, all immigration should be halted, and if and when it ever makes any sense to permit it again, we must learn from our mistakes and heavily favour those from the founding stock of Germanic and Celtic persons, or at least Europeans. Indeed, categorically excluding persons from alien cultures and races is probably best, especially given their breeding rates in comparison to those of Europeans.

    This is all perfectly sensible stuff of the sort (as Steve has pointed out repeatedly) folks like Benjamin Franklin propounded (indeed, it is more generous than many such propositions!). Yet it leaves one banished from polite society and branded a monster in the present climate.

  239. Anon7 says:
    @Daniel H
    >>This didn’t bother me until there was a party being held at one of the student’s homes for the team, and my son wasn’t invited. When he asked his friends about it, he was told that he wasn’t invited because he is white.

    This is just the beginning of the Asians flexing their muscles. Get used to it. That said, I do hope that Asians destroy the Ivy league. No other institution in America needs to be cut off at the knees more than the Ivys. Trump should go after his enemies where it really hurts. Initiate a department of Justice suit against all the Ivys for illegal discrimination against Asian applicants. You know, what Conan said. Let's go for the good in life.

    Although not invited to parties, my son got deep into the Asian perspective on schools – namely, they follow it like baseball. Let me tell you, there aren’t nearly as many Asian kids in elite schools as there could be.

    One story told with great gusto was about a kid in their grade with a Chinese mother, but a white father. The kid was Asian, but had a white surname. He was able to get into his school of choice with a lower GPA and lower SAT scores than his Asian-surname friends who applied to the same school, but were rejected (their Asian quota was full, you see).

    Asian kids don’t complain, though. They all recognize that you use any trick you can to get into the best schools. They all would have changed their names if they could have.

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    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Are they upset though that they are held to a higher standard than some other groups?
  240. @Twinkie
    You like people with dual allegiances so long as they are white and good-looking, eh?

    Dual allegiances? Monaco is a European principality which has never been anything but cordial and friendly to the U.S.A., as far as I know.

    You’ll be scandalised to learn I also hold the Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier, the Marquis de Lafayette, in high esteem. Nor do I revile Joy Davidman.

    Your remark makes me wonder if you misunderstand my position. I hold no animus to Asians, Africans, not Australian aboriginals; I wish them all peace and prosperity in their own lands. My people, at ten per cent of the population and plummetting catastrophically, our lands being ravenously overpopulated by foreign invaders, and our societies besieged by interlopers both alien and domestic, are entitled to retain our ancestral lands.

    Indeed, my wrath is far greater with the collaborators in Washington than with the invaders themselves. But for the former, the whole affair could be stopped instantly using overwhelming military might to – and I know this is crazy talk! – secure the borders and defend the nation. (If only there were a department headed by a member of the cabinet and charged with the defense of the U.S.A., I wonder whatever would they would do…?)

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Dual allegiances? Monaco is a European principality which has never been anything but cordial and friendly to the U.S.A., as far as I know.
     
    When I was naturalized, the following was what I swore, among other things (some of the phrases may ring a bell for those who signed up for military/government service):

    I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law... [boldface mine.]
     
    While considerably less egregious than having a divided allegiance toward a polity unfriendly to the United States, I am of the view that a man cannot have two countries, but one. It's too bad that the USG requires this oath of the newly minted citizens, but does not legally enforce it.

    Your remark makes me wonder if you misunderstand my position. I hold no animus to Asians, Africans, not Australian aboriginals; I wish them all peace and prosperity in their own lands.
     
    I understand this part of your position perfectly. What you have been rather opaque about has been regarding non-white citizens of the United States.

    My people, at ten per cent of the population
     
    Given the percentage cited, I am assuming that you mean to say that whites - globally - are your people, rather than your fellow American citizens who happen to be non- or partially-white.
  241. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What the h*ll Steve? Asians aren’t diversity. Well, aren’t diversity diversity anyway. You know that. Why if we were to reconcile the fact that Asians were getting more slots, why that would shoot a hole through the entire ‘people of color was robbed by white racism!’ hypothesis. And we can’t have that.

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  242. “Yes. I do indeed believe that the descendents of Negroes (and Irishmen) present at the nation’s founding have more right to be here than those arriving afterward (from Ireland, Africa, or elsewhere).”

    I agree with this–and my ancestors go back to before the Revolution. So I get to stay, too.

    I also agree we’re full-up, and want close to a full moratorium. None of this skilled vs unskilled nonsense.

    Daniel–actually, in a discussion like this, I prefer people use anecdotes as illustration and example. You’re using them as rebuttal or support. Twinkie did this once and I told him he was exactly what I was warning against. He’s been wounded ever since. (And I don’t read his tirades, although I can’t bring myself to mute him.)

    BTW, board: I don’t care if you call me he or she, but no one here knows my gender or location unless I told them, and if I did that person agreed not to reveal it.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    my ancestors go back to before the Revolution. So I get to stay, too.
     
    You and my children can high-five each other. They descend - through their mother - from a Continental Army officer. But what of these Asian-American students of yours that you said you love so much? Are they just out of luck and should be expelled?

    close to a full moratorium
     
    In this we agree.

    None of this skilled vs unskilled nonsense.
     
    It's not "nonsense" to have a hierarchy of the desirables (or undesirables). I prefer heavily restricted and highly selective (that is to say, very, very small) immigration to mass immigration, but if forced to endure the latter, I prefer the skilled over the unskilled. That may be worse for my children (i.e. more job competition), but it's better for the country as a whole, for both economic and socio-civic reasons.

    I prefer people use anecdotes as illustration and example. You’re using them as rebuttal or support.
     
    Translation: "If I do it, it's always right. If you do it, it's always wrong." Here is a suggestion! Why don't we use evidence-based reasoning for a change? I hear that a bunch of these swell guys in Europe came up with this thing called "science" and "logic." Let's try that to have an evidence-based debate rather than engaging in a logical fallacy known as "ad hominem."

    He’s been wounded ever since.
     
    Indeed. My sense of self-worth is dependent on the approval of an anonymous blogger-cum-former test-prep instructor who is mad that people who worked hard in high school have it better than those who "had a life" instead. Perhaps you might look up "projection."

    And I don’t read his tirades, although I can’t bring myself to mute him.
     
    You mean like that time when you proffered "evidence" for your assertions, some of which turned out to contradict the said assertions, after which you called me names and disappeared from this blog for a while?

    And I suppose you used telepathy across the Internet, not actually reading my "tirade" that you were able to compose the following in response in comment 164 above:

    Lord, Twinkie, I don’t hate Asians. But I have to admit I don’t like you very much.
     
    Do you have really short memory? Because you are exposing your propensity for saying, er, "inaccurate" things right in this thread.

    BTW, board: I don’t care if you call me he or she
     
    I don't think anyone cares whether you are a man or a woman. I sincerely respect your desire for anonymity, regardless of what kind of human being I think you are, but if you didn't care about whether you were referred by others as "he," "she" or Pablo Gomez-style "they," perhaps you should simply not make an issue of it, rather than providing a link to a verbose explanation of why you don't care what gender pronoun the rest of us use for you. Just a suggestion.
  243. @Twinkie

    I stand by my assertion that we are full up; and what’s more my people face grave danger. For these reasons, I prefer that Asians stay in Asia, Africans in Africa, and so on – be they ever so sainted, ingenius, and in love with America.
     
    This begs two questions:

    1. Who are "my people" here?

    2. Fine with restricting further immigration. But what of non-whites who are already Americans?

    Concentric loyalties are always relevant to this question, so, in order, I suppose my people are:

    • Appalachians of Ulster-Scots Stock
    • Americans of (Celtic) European Stock
    • Europeans Writ Large & Their Diaspora

    My ethnicity as a Celt and my political allegiances as an American (especially the latter, as the government has now all but entirely betrayed its obligations under the social contract), are increasingly less important than my race, given the urgency of the situation and the need to stand together lest we hang separately.

    (Being of Celtic origin, I am especially sensitive to the genocide of a people and its culture, and what it means to have such tenuous numbers; Europeans are well on our way to what became of the Celts – if the former are lucky they will hold on to a few scattered enclaves as the latter have.)

    Desiderius and Daniel Chieh recently had an exhange relevant to your second question and I largely agree with what I remember of Desiderius’ position: What’s done is done. People who’ve immigrated (legally!) with the encouragement, permission, and blessings of previous regimes, some more than a century ago, ought probably be allowed to remain here; one cannot uncook the omelette.

    People who’ve come illegally or chosen not to assimilate (citizens and residents who won’t learn English and bathe, or who march about waving foreign flags, I’m looking at you…) can be loaded into Globemasters and Galaxies bound for whatever place they are so eager to turn my country into.

    But under the current circumstances, all immigration should be halted, and if and when it ever makes any sense to permit it again, we must learn from our mistakes and heavily favour those from the founding stock of Germanic and Celtic persons, or at least Europeans. Indeed, categorically excluding persons from alien cultures and races is probably best, especially given their breeding rates in comparison to those of Europeans.

    This is all perfectly sensible stuff of the sort (as Steve has pointed out repeatedly) folks like Benjamin Franklin propounded (indeed, it is more generous than many such propositions!). Yet it leaves one banished from polite society and branded a monster in the present climate.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    My ethnicity as a Celt and my political allegiances as an American... are increasingly less important than my race
     
    The gist seems to me to be that you are becoming more white nationalist, which also seems consistent with your earlier "my people... only ten percent of the population" remark. Pity, as I agree with the host of this blog on that score (http://www.vdare.com/articles/sailer-vs-taylor-round-ii-citizenism-vs-white-nationalism).

    What’s done is done. People who’ve immigrated (legally!) with the encouragement, permission, and blessings of previous regimes, some more than a century ago, ought probably be allowed to remain here; one cannot uncook the omelette. [boldface mine.]
     
    And yet, are you reserving the right to change your mind on whether to disenfranchise and banish (or vanish) millions of your fellow American citizens? Are they to live in constant fear that the permanent and enduring bargain that their ancestors made with your ancestors (see James Madison above) can be nullified at any moment upon a change of minds?

    citizens and residents who won’t learn English and bathe, or who march about waving foreign flags, I’m looking at you…
     
    As Spock would say, "fascinating." You abhor American citizens who wave foreign flags (an abhorrence I happen to share), so much so that you are willing to exile them, but you approve of those who - legally - take up foreign allegiances while retaining the safety of the American citizenship status (provided, of course, they are white and attractive, e.g. Grace Kelly).

    Thank you for the elaboration - I mean that; this is not sarcasm.

    By the way, Scotch-Irish Appalachians are my (kind of) people. My family and I own a farmhouse in rural West Virginia and live there part of the year, now that we are semi-retired. At some point, we'll live there most of the year. We've been welcomed into the community there, and we have reciprocated the warm embrace of the community. My children have grown up hunting together in the woods with my neighbors' kids.