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From The Telegraph:

Oxford University’s Classics degree to be overhauled in bid to boost number of female students getting Firsts

Camilla Turner, education editor Fin Kavanagh
9 FEBRUARY 2019 • 5:00PM

One of Oxford University’s oldest degrees is to be overhauled in bid to boost number of female students getting top grades.

Classics dons who marked last year’s exam papers said the gender gap is “very troubling”, adding that it must be addressed as a matter of “urgency”.

More than double the number of men were awarded first class honours in their Finals last year than women, with 46.8 per cent of men achieving the top grade compared to 12.5 per cent of their female peers.

Academics noted that the gender gap in Finals – which was “already very noticeable” – had “dramatically increased” in the most recent cohort of students due to an a record number of men taking Firsts.

It’s Donna Zuckerberg’s worst nightmare: more smart guys getting interested in Classics. Steps must be taken.

 
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  1. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:

    The article is behind a paywall, but do they say at any point if there’s a difference between the average entering grades of the male classics students vs the females? Oxford enjoys such prestige in the English-speaking world that I can see some people who couldn’t get into their first choice program going into classics just because they want so desperately to be there. If these people are more likely to be female for whatever reason, then there’s your answer.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one's focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.). It's the kind of stuff people like Lattimore, Tolkien, and Renault went in for. It's not any easier to excel in than is, say, mathematics or electrical engineering, though of course the aptitudes required for each of those are not the same.

    I do not say it motivates your remark, but the prevalent idea in these comments that would dismiss Aquinas and Milton for fools whilst worshipping as a genius any Chinaman with a degree in physics is something to behold.
    , @Difference maker
    Classics tends to be the smartest on campus, after physics
  2. Unfortunately, the majority (or close to it), are likely homosexual.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    And you know this how?
    , @Trevor H.
    Thread derailed! But which kind do you object to the most, the W.H. Aiden or Evelyn Waugh kind? Or the Rock Hudson or Freddie Mercury kind?

    I'd bet at least some of the guys taking firsts in Classics at Oxford would make interesting dinner table conversation.

    , @DFH
    You are correct, my own personal observations confirm this. Classics is also studied by the ugliest girls (possibly related).
  3. You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she’s making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment. Here she is at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit school, heh), teamed up with former illegal immigrant now Princeton professor and fellow cultural arsonist Dan-el Peralta-Padilla:
    https://www.usfca.edu/event/2019-02-27-1700/amazons-others-and-the-alt-right-classics-the-21st-century

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Oh goodie! It's free and open to the public. Anyone want to carpool? This will be fun, in the style of Charles Pewitt ambushing campaigning politicians by confronting them with realities that derail the dog-and-pony show.
    , @Redneck farmer
    "...These societies have been used to marginalize women, immigrants, and persons of color....". Have any of these people actually STUDIED Greece and Rome?
    , @AndrewR
    If I were a political arsonist and the sister of one of the wealthiest, most famous men on Earth (whom many people have good reason to be unhappy with), I would avoid pre-announced public appearances. Perhaps Mark is paying for her security detail?
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she’s making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment.
     
    That was a completely inapposite turn of phrase, IJ. Donna Zuckerberg is the Enlightenment.

    Honestly, if anybody still does not get the fact that Classical Liberalism leads directly and by inevitable degrees to the post-modern calamity of the present day, then he needs to abandon the political discussion and just retire to his estates. Touting the Enlightenment is nothing but clueless Boomerposting. We don't have time for this.
    , @donut
    A couple more decades of this shit and it's going to be White people saying "we was kangz".
  4. @Bill P
    Unfortunately, the majority (or close to it), are likely homosexual.

    And you know this how?

    • Replies: @Bill P
    I was in the Junior Classical League.
    , @Anonymous
    Well, one of the most influential classists of the XIX century, Walter Pater, was a homosexual from Oxford. This tradition is very ancient.
    , @Anon1
    Hands on experience.
    , @TheJester
    I just finished the piece about Oscar Wilde and the Oxbridge homosexuals in, "The Rite of Sodomy," by Randy Engel.

    Evidently, the study of Classical Greece and the homoerotic relationships between older men and boys extant in that culture became part of the Oxbridge culture, especially for those males studying the classics. This was buttressed by the male students' prior homoerotic experiences in the notorious British "public" boarding schools for the aristocrats and well-to-do.

    I doubt if much has changed over the years in the nexus formed by "public" boarding schools and Oxbridge, especially with the sacralization of the homosexual lifestyle in current British culture. At least Oscar Wilde and most other Oxbridge homosexuals had to hide behind marriage and children to mask their homosexual orgies from the public. Now, Oxbridge homosexuals can parade and celebrate their lifestyle in public.

    , @gregor
    Aren’t they known for oral exams?
  5. @Bill P
    Unfortunately, the majority (or close to it), are likely homosexual.

    Thread derailed! But which kind do you object to the most, the W.H. Aiden or Evelyn Waugh kind? Or the Rock Hudson or Freddie Mercury kind?

    I’d bet at least some of the guys taking firsts in Classics at Oxford would make interesting dinner table conversation.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I'd reckoned he meant the Mary Renault kind....
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I’d bet at least some of the guys taking firsts in Classics at Oxford
     
    Yes, make sure you get that R in there. OxTail culture is bad enough without importing Russian Riverisms.
  6. The reason for this is simple: there is not much of an incentive for anyone interested in “gender” to learn the languages. Why spend all that time studying Greek when you can just use a translation to write some turgid essay about misogyny in Aeschylus? (I’m a former Classics major; I’ve seen this at first hand.)

    • Replies: @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    Francis Bacon in the 17th century said studying Greek and Latin is a complete waste of time. And people are still doing it. Nothing like a good argument on theodicy or the virgin birth in Latin to really get the mental wetware up to full speed.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Hey, I've heard no translation of Aristophanes captures the gleeful obscenity of the original. Having done Lysistrata, I'd call that a powerful motivation.
  7. What you guys call toxic Zionism is just the desire of Jewish people to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.
    What is wrong with it, Nazis?
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    • Replies: @The Cruncher
    > Your whole post,
    > praising the virtues of homogeneity for Israel
    > contempt for and bashing, intolerant whites.

    The hypocrisy makes my head explode. We White Nazis want the same. You want your country, and ours, too.

    , @Redneck farmer
    So why DO Jews live in areas with a large black underclass?
    , @AKAHorace
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    Are you friends with Tiny Duck ?

    I suspect that both of you are Steve when he is on different kinds of drugs. Or perhaps he posts as you guys to get the comment thread moving.

    , @Pericles
    Lol, seems like this guy is having some trouble with his wife's black son.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    What in the Sam Hill has that to do with imminent grade inflation (and the requisite curriculum down-dumbing) at Oxford?
  8. The modern conservative mind seems overly focused on the concrete. Take the propaganda discussed in this article that’s used in classrooms. I’m not sure most conservatives even understand how the education establishment uses things like White privilege exercises to demoralize Whites.

    Or take war: conservatives typically love to talk about war – battles, weapons, etc. – but not the political and cultural influences that led to the war in the first place. They will obsess over what kind of tank the Germans or Soviets had in some battle, but don’t care much about the more important political machinations of the Left to help Stalin in the years leading up to the war.

    Or take Orwell: most conservatives hear Orwellian State and they think of the material side of it, the literal surveillance equipment. But the real heart of the Orwellian concepts, like the corruption of language or concepts such as memory-hole or doublethink goes over their heads.

    Yes, there are exceptions, but an awful lot of them, at least these days, seem oblivious to anything deeper than the immediate concrete world.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    Having taught in private, public, and government sector environments, I can only speak for my self. The concept of "white privilege" in its traditional understanding and I addressed it when the matter arose did not disparage whites in any way shape or form, unless they were "snow flake" triggered individuals who thought any references to being was a slight, unless one referenced whiteness as next to Godliness. And that even if said discussion was discussed by a white person. It was not a mandate for whites to be quiet and I am unaware of any instructor I associated with who would support the practice.

    I am a conservative and my students knew it.

    As a conservative, and speaking for myself . . . the causes, events, political and military efficacy consequences and environments of war were part and parcel to every discussion on the subject and constituted the majority of said discussions.

    As a conservative, who bachelors in communication (emphasis speech/rhetoric) I can say with confidence that discussions in reference to "1984"'s "doublethink" is referenced as "doublespeak" and is a very important and frequently referenced construct of power and control. And while i would say that conservatives in academia is a very small community, I don't think what I have offered is rare. I obtained my post secondary education at a "christian institution.

  9. @International Jew
    And you know this how?

    I was in the Junior Classical League.

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Did you guys really wear a red sash around your hips? Oh wait that was the Junior Anti-Sex League.

    Nevermind.
    , @Anonymous
    Seeking the best..
    The highest our goal..
    Following classics through glories of old
    Searching the realms...
    Of our golden past...
    Following the classics
    Truth that lasts...
    Through knowledge, truth and fellowship...
    We're growing every day..
    The friendly hand of J!C!L!
    Aids in every way...
    In Rome's proud steps...
    we're marching on...
    with every true colleague
    And forever we'll hold..
    to the purple and gold...
    of the JUNIOR CLASSICAL LEAGUE!

    I have nice memories of nice girls to be honest....
    , @snorlax
    So you were the eromenos?
  10. It’s Donna Zuckerberg’s worst nightmare: more smart guys getting interested in Classics. Steps must be taken.

    I feel like, too much passive voice is being employed here? And that’s the real problem? Maybe?

  11. @Bill P
    I was in the Junior Classical League.

    Did you guys really wear a red sash around your hips? Oh wait that was the Junior Anti-Sex League.

    Nevermind.

  12. @M Krauthammar
    What you guys call toxic Zionism is just the desire of Jewish people to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.
    What is wrong with it, Nazis?
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    > Your whole post,
    > praising the virtues of homogeneity for Israel
    > contempt for and bashing, intolerant whites.

    The hypocrisy makes my head explode. We White Nazis want the same. You want your country, and ours, too.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    M Krauthammer is the same guy who also posts as Tiny Duck doing parodies of anti-White Leftists.

    He’s making the same point that you are but he is using satire; that Jews and White Nationalists want exactly the same thing; “to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.” Yet while Jews are allowed to do that, Whites are demonized for wanting exactly the same for themselves.
  13. @International Jew
    And you know this how?

    Well, one of the most influential classists of the XIX century, Walter Pater, was a homosexual from Oxford. This tradition is very ancient.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Winckelmann, who pretty much invented modern Classics art history in the 18th Century, may (or may not) have died of too much rough trade in 1756.
  14. Canes femininae Latinam et Graecam non possent discere. Simple as that. QED.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Cucurbita! Bracis meis vescere.
  15. I think we are seeing, and going to see, an ever-increasing swell of people fleeing pozzed intellectual pursuits, pozzed entertainment and pozzed past times. The problem is that we get chased. The other day I was questioned suspiciously for saying I tend to read older literature. The implication was that I was reading pre-pozzed stuff and why would I want or be allowed to do that?

    • Replies: @anon
    Only fags read "older literature."
    , @Anonymous

    The other day I was questioned suspiciously for saying I tend to read older literature.
     
    Why do you tend to read older literature? What sort?
  16. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    I was in the Junior Classical League.

    Seeking the best..
    The highest our goal..
    Following classics through glories of old
    Searching the realms…
    Of our golden past…
    Following the classics
    Truth that lasts…
    Through knowledge, truth and fellowship…
    We’re growing every day..
    The friendly hand of J!C!L!
    Aids in every way…
    In Rome’s proud steps…
    we’re marching on…
    with every true colleague
    And forever we’ll hold..
    to the purple and gold…
    of the JUNIOR CLASSICAL LEAGUE!

    I have nice memories of nice girls to be honest….

  17. How about splitting into male and female courses, like in competitive sports? Men get Classics, women get something slightly more feminine sounding, perhaps Classiques?

    Men get to do all that stuff in Latin and Greek, while women get to write essays about intersectionality in the Late Roman Republic, where at least Patriarchy actually existed.

    • LOL: Cortes
  18. Anonymous[188] • Disclaimer says:

    The Zuck siblings are amusing. Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he’s based in reality. His hero is Octavian/Augustus which is not PC at all.

    OTOH She’s a disgusting loser SJW. And she’s using her brother’s $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.

    Mark probably resents what she’s doing. Augustus would’ve shipped her off to a sanitarium a long time ago.

    I don’t believe Mark is anti-white or anti-goyim. But he goes along with the culture.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Mark Z. will buy Bulgaria so he can permanently exile Donna Z. there, like Augustus did to Ovid.
    , @Clyde

    OTOH She’s a disgusting loser SJW. And she’s using her brother’s $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.
     
    An excellent summary. Zuck is happy she is messing up the Classics rather than working at FaceBorg and batshit messing that up. I think one sister does work there.
    , @Intelligent Dasein

    Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he’s based in reality.
     
    Right. Nothing screams "Reality!" like Facebook.
    , @Tyrion 2
    Anyone who knows Octavian is fine by me.
  19. @Bill P
    I was in the Junior Classical League.

    So you were the eromenos?

    • LOL: Redneck farmer, Rosie
    • Replies: @Bill P
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    [...]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.
     
    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?
  20. @International Jew
    And you know this how?

    Hands on experience.

  21. Is Classics a good major?

    • Replies: @Realist

    Is Classics a good major?
     
    Yes, if you have a strong interest and are independently wealthy
    , @aristippus
    Depends on what you mean by good. It's a high IQ and major that has lots of smart weirdos in it. As someone with a degree in classics, I can say that my fellow classmates were very interesting people. The drawback is that it's not a very marketable degree on its own. Almost every person I know with a classics major, including myself, later got a graduate degree in a professional field in order to be employable.
  22. @Bill P
    Unfortunately, the majority (or close to it), are likely homosexual.

    You are correct, my own personal observations confirm this. Classics is also studied by the ugliest girls (possibly related).

  23. @Anonymous
    The article is behind a paywall, but do they say at any point if there's a difference between the average entering grades of the male classics students vs the females? Oxford enjoys such prestige in the English-speaking world that I can see some people who couldn't get into their first choice program going into classics just because they want so desperately to be there. If these people are more likely to be female for whatever reason, then there's your answer.

    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one’s focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.). It’s the kind of stuff people like Lattimore, Tolkien, and Renault went in for. It’s not any easier to excel in than is, say, mathematics or electrical engineering, though of course the aptitudes required for each of those are not the same.

    I do not say it motivates your remark, but the prevalent idea in these comments that would dismiss Aquinas and Milton for fools whilst worshipping as a genius any Chinaman with a degree in physics is something to behold.

    • Agree: sayless
    • Replies: @International Jew
    One thing that makes ancient languages hard is that people thought differently from us.

    Pick up anything written today in French and (assuming you know the language itself, and you're not reading about something terribly parochial) you'll find yourself in a world of metaphors, social values and political assumptions very similar to what you see in English books and magazines.

    Not so when you turn to things from long before our time. This piece...
    https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2012/10/28/winning-without-super-pacs
    ...is a great little introduction to how easily a modern mind misunderstands the Romans. (The general subject matter is politics, so most readers here will find it engaging enough.)

    , @Anonymous
    That's not what academic Classics is. Classics is the study of ancient Greek and Latin language and literature. It does not involve the study of Near Eastern languages like Hittite and Sumerian. And it does not involve the direct study of architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc. Those topics might be indirectly touched upon through a historical or cultural survey or indirectly through the literature. Greek and Latin are not "esoteric" languages, especially given their influence on modern languages, and they can be learned by schoolboys. And Classics degrees generally do not require or impart "fluency" in the languages. They typically involve the "grammar-translation" method, which means knowing lots of grammar and methodically translating texts with dictionaries, but not being particularly fluent. Classics degrees are easier than math or electrical engineering degrees.

    Aquinas and Milton were not "Classicists" in the contemporary sense. Aquinas was on the cutting edge of philosophy and theology in his time. He would not be a Classics major today. He would be in the philosophy or physics department.

    , @Rosie

    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one’s focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.)
     
    IOW, long hours of solitary study -- difficult for more-extroverted women, even very bright ones.
  24. So how exactly does Oxford propose to “overhaul” its Classics Degree to make women do better, and men do worse?

    Or are they just going to dumb it down until everyone gets a “first?”

    It’s bad enough there is preferential treatment in admissions. Now it is demanded in grading as well. It’s a whole new domain of dishonesty.

    • Replies: @res

    It’s bad enough there is preferential treatment in admissions. Now it is demanded in grading as well. It’s a whole new domain of dishonesty.
     
    That's the slippery slope. And it's inevitable given that preferential treatment in admissions creates precisely the effect they observe on outcomes. We see the same script playing out in so many places.
  25. @Trevor H.
    Thread derailed! But which kind do you object to the most, the W.H. Aiden or Evelyn Waugh kind? Or the Rock Hudson or Freddie Mercury kind?

    I'd bet at least some of the guys taking firsts in Classics at Oxford would make interesting dinner table conversation.

    I’d reckoned he meant the Mary Renault kind….

  26. So is this how Sappho becomes the most famous person that ever lived?

  27. @International Jew
    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she's making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment. Here she is at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit school, heh), teamed up with former illegal immigrant now Princeton professor and fellow cultural arsonist Dan-el Peralta-Padilla:
    https://www.usfca.edu/event/2019-02-27-1700/amazons-others-and-the-alt-right-classics-the-21st-century

    Oh goodie! It’s free and open to the public. Anyone want to carpool? This will be fun, in the style of Charles Pewitt ambushing campaigning politicians by confronting them with realities that derail the dog-and-pony show.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Heh, I kinda hoped I'd get some people interested in going, if I posted this. If you go, please do report back to us here! (I'd go myself but I'm busy then.)

    Just don't get yourself thrown out.

  28. They’re dumbing down for blacks too:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6655685/Close-grade-gap-black-students-face-fines-ministers-warn-universities.html

    Useful acronym:
    Grade
    Inflation for
    Black
    Students

    • Replies: @El Dato

    Universities minister Chris Skidmore said: ‘Universities need to reflect modern Britain, and ensure that everyone who has the potential, no matter their background or where they are from can thrive at university.
     
    When did "university" become synonym for "scout club".

    That country is such a goner.
  29. @Anonymous
    The Zuck siblings are amusing. Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he's based in reality. His hero is Octavian/Augustus which is not PC at all.

    OTOH She's a disgusting loser SJW. And she's using her brother's $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.

    Mark probably resents what she's doing. Augustus would've shipped her off to a sanitarium a long time ago.

    I don't believe Mark is anti-white or anti-goyim. But he goes along with the culture.

    Mark Z. will buy Bulgaria so he can permanently exile Donna Z. there, like Augustus did to Ovid.

    • LOL: dvorak
    • Replies: @International Jew
    Ovid was exiled to Romania.
    , @Mr. Anon
    It would probably be cheaper to buy the isle of Pandateria, where Augustus exiled his daughter, Julia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventotene
    , @Autochthon
    Having actually known some Bulgarian women, let me tell you: they would not put up with Mlle. Zuckerberg's shit for five minutes. He'll have to confine her to his keep in Hawai'i if he wishes to spare her wretched life, where at least she'll find refuge under the aegis of the Steven Tyler Act.
  30. @Anonymous
    Well, one of the most influential classists of the XIX century, Walter Pater, was a homosexual from Oxford. This tradition is very ancient.

    Winckelmann, who pretty much invented modern Classics art history in the 18th Century, may (or may not) have died of too much rough trade in 1756.

  31. @snorlax
    So you were the eromenos?

    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    […]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.

    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    • Replies: @Altai
    Are they gay or just public school boys?
    , @Anon1
    It seems like you're trying to tell us something.....
    , @Cortes
    Just following in the footsteps of Julius Caesar, who (according to the poem of Robert Graves in “I, Claudius” was

    “Every man’s woman and
    Every woman’s man.”
    , @dvorak

    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?
     
    Yes I do. Consider the competition: English, History of Art, PPE.
    , @stillCARealist
    Reading your link was pretty depressing. My guess is all Oxford students have been to top schools from any country, and look at the worldview they have!

    Will there be any normal, straight couples raising children in the coming generations? These Oxford types sound totally screwed up.

    The only mitigating factor is that the college years are the pinnacle of horniness so the fact that people are having bizarre fantasies, experimenting, and watching gay porn will probably fade a bit as they move into the world of work and responsibility. But I could be wrong and they'll be wretched and heart-broken their entire lives.
  32. @M Krauthammar
    What you guys call toxic Zionism is just the desire of Jewish people to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.
    What is wrong with it, Nazis?
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    So why DO Jews live in areas with a large black underclass?

  33. @Anonymous
    The article is behind a paywall, but do they say at any point if there's a difference between the average entering grades of the male classics students vs the females? Oxford enjoys such prestige in the English-speaking world that I can see some people who couldn't get into their first choice program going into classics just because they want so desperately to be there. If these people are more likely to be female for whatever reason, then there's your answer.

    Classics tends to be the smartest on campus, after physics

  34. @International Jew
    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she's making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment. Here she is at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit school, heh), teamed up with former illegal immigrant now Princeton professor and fellow cultural arsonist Dan-el Peralta-Padilla:
    https://www.usfca.edu/event/2019-02-27-1700/amazons-others-and-the-alt-right-classics-the-21st-century

    “…These societies have been used to marginalize women, immigrants, and persons of color….”. Have any of these people actually STUDIED Greece and Rome?

  35. @TelfoedJohn
    They’re dumbing down for blacks too:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6655685/Close-grade-gap-black-students-face-fines-ministers-warn-universities.html

    Useful acronym:
    Grade
    Inflation for
    Black
    Students

    Universities minister Chris Skidmore said: ‘Universities need to reflect modern Britain, and ensure that everyone who has the potential, no matter their background or where they are from can thrive at university.

    When did “university” become synonym for “scout club”.

    That country is such a goner.

  36. @Bill P
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    [...]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.
     
    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    Are they gay or just public school boys?

    • LOL: Clyde, Kylie
    • Replies: @Escher
    “Public” minus the “l”.
    , @Brutusale
    I'll go with 40%, just like the Cambridge Five.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35360172
    , @Trevor H.
    Getting blown by a guy a few times doesn't make you gay, does it? Asking for a friend.
  37. Actually I think I know why this is happening. And the reason fits with many Sailer themes.

    It was never easy to get into Oxford or Cambridge, but it’s gotten a lot harder, because of increased competition from international students – especially East Asians. However, the one major subject East Asians are not usually interested in studying is Classics.

    As a consequence, Classics is now the easiest subject to get admitted to Oxford in. And smart, pushy English parents know this. I know of two London families who suddenly made their daughters start studying Latin at 16 specifically for this reason. They want their daughters to get to Oxford, not so they can become Classics professors, but for the social connections and life opportunities that three years at Oxford can bring. If they graduate with a Third, that’s fine.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    If I were a social-climbing helicopter parent who wanted my kid to get into Oxford's classics program, I would probably choose to "make" my kid start studying Latin well before 16.
    , @International Jew

    I know of two London families who suddenly made their daughters start studying Latin at 16 specifically for this reason.

     

    No need even for that, see "Course II":
    https://www.classics.ox.ac.uk/classics

    Unless I've misunderstood; I've never looked at a British university's course catalogue and I'm struck by much unfamiliar terminology.

  38. @Bill P
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    [...]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.
     
    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    It seems like you’re trying to tell us something…..

  39. @Bill P
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    [...]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.
     
    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    Just following in the footsteps of Julius Caesar, who (according to the poem of Robert Graves in “I, Claudius” was

    “Every man’s woman and
    Every woman’s man.”

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Supposedly, during a Triumph, his troops sang "Ceasar, every wife's husband and every husband's wife".
  40. Bit of a shopworn yuk, “would make a great band name”, but …

    Donna Zuckerberg’s Worst Nightmare

    College radio DJ:

    “Got two tickets to give away… tonight playing at the Greco Lounge, it’s DZWN along with Zeus Rape Kit and Satyr Scabies.”

  41. @International Jew
    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she's making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment. Here she is at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit school, heh), teamed up with former illegal immigrant now Princeton professor and fellow cultural arsonist Dan-el Peralta-Padilla:
    https://www.usfca.edu/event/2019-02-27-1700/amazons-others-and-the-alt-right-classics-the-21st-century

    If I were a political arsonist and the sister of one of the wealthiest, most famous men on Earth (whom many people have good reason to be unhappy with), I would avoid pre-announced public appearances. Perhaps Mark is paying for her security detail?

  42. @georgesdelatour
    Actually I think I know why this is happening. And the reason fits with many Sailer themes.

    It was never easy to get into Oxford or Cambridge, but it's gotten a lot harder, because of increased competition from international students - especially East Asians. However, the one major subject East Asians are not usually interested in studying is Classics.

    As a consequence, Classics is now the easiest subject to get admitted to Oxford in. And smart, pushy English parents know this. I know of two London families who suddenly made their daughters start studying Latin at 16 specifically for this reason. They want their daughters to get to Oxford, not so they can become Classics professors, but for the social connections and life opportunities that three years at Oxford can bring. If they graduate with a Third, that's fine.

    If I were a social-climbing helicopter parent who wanted my kid to get into Oxford’s classics program, I would probably choose to “make” my kid start studying Latin well before 16.

  43. in brazil, national high school testing for students. 720 of the 1000 best grades are by boys.

    however, when it comes to the essay, girls have the higher grades. hmmmm very suspicious considering how the rest of the prove is objetive.

    even without names attached, is very easy to see female handwritting vs male

  44. @Autochthon
    Oh goodie! It's free and open to the public. Anyone want to carpool? This will be fun, in the style of Charles Pewitt ambushing campaigning politicians by confronting them with realities that derail the dog-and-pony show.

    Heh, I kinda hoped I’d get some people interested in going, if I posted this. If you go, please do report back to us here! (I’d go myself but I’m busy then.)

    Just don’t get yourself thrown out.

  45. @Steve Sailer
    Mark Z. will buy Bulgaria so he can permanently exile Donna Z. there, like Augustus did to Ovid.

    Ovid was exiled to Romania.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Which Ovid metamorphosed into Bulgaria :-)
  46. @georgesdelatour
    Actually I think I know why this is happening. And the reason fits with many Sailer themes.

    It was never easy to get into Oxford or Cambridge, but it's gotten a lot harder, because of increased competition from international students - especially East Asians. However, the one major subject East Asians are not usually interested in studying is Classics.

    As a consequence, Classics is now the easiest subject to get admitted to Oxford in. And smart, pushy English parents know this. I know of two London families who suddenly made their daughters start studying Latin at 16 specifically for this reason. They want their daughters to get to Oxford, not so they can become Classics professors, but for the social connections and life opportunities that three years at Oxford can bring. If they graduate with a Third, that's fine.

    I know of two London families who suddenly made their daughters start studying Latin at 16 specifically for this reason.

    No need even for that, see “Course II”:
    https://www.classics.ox.ac.uk/classics

    Unless I’ve misunderstood; I’ve never looked at a British university’s course catalogue and I’m struck by much unfamiliar terminology.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    This stuff should exclusively be taught to the well-heeled idle classes who want to while away their time as they pretend to build up skills. (Well maybe they can be hired to write "Trump Dossiers" in later life phases)

    What happened to the "knowledge society" that is forever coming?

    Why not start with

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-ancient/

    and move up to "Learn to Code" quickly.
  47. Donna Zuckerberg runs a vanity “learned journal” named Eidolon. As for herself, she has not published a refereed paper in her field, Greek Studies. How does one know? Go to the scholar.google.com database, put in her name and click on Enter. I have visited her journal where she publishes usually very short papers of contributors which usually make a tiny accurate observation. The papers have one common denominator: ressentiment. It’s like a French leftist saying “I get angry when I hear that . . . ” She has a genuine Ph.D. from an American university but it’s not comparable to taking a First at Oxbridge. From 1959 to 1963 I was a graduate student in Classics at Harvard and I remember the sexual makeup of my fellow graduate students: 1 woman, Dorothea Wender nee Schmidt. For sheer brain power I believe she was at the top of the pack.Alas, she was felled by a stroke in her 40s at which point I believe she had published a refereed paper in a classics journal that mentioned “Suzy Creamcheese.” After a long partial recovery, she wrote 3 murder mysteries (which I tracked down and read). One was titled Knight Must Fall. The world is so odd. Dorothea’s parents were Plymouth Brethern who handed out tracts in the street. How interesting it must be to have a kid brother computer nerd financially successful beyond human reckoning!

    • Agree: Clyde
  48. @Anonymous
    The Zuck siblings are amusing. Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he's based in reality. His hero is Octavian/Augustus which is not PC at all.

    OTOH She's a disgusting loser SJW. And she's using her brother's $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.

    Mark probably resents what she's doing. Augustus would've shipped her off to a sanitarium a long time ago.

    I don't believe Mark is anti-white or anti-goyim. But he goes along with the culture.

    OTOH She’s a disgusting loser SJW. And she’s using her brother’s $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.

    An excellent summary. Zuck is happy she is messing up the Classics rather than working at FaceBorg and batshit messing that up. I think one sister does work there.

  49. @Autochthon
    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one's focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.). It's the kind of stuff people like Lattimore, Tolkien, and Renault went in for. It's not any easier to excel in than is, say, mathematics or electrical engineering, though of course the aptitudes required for each of those are not the same.

    I do not say it motivates your remark, but the prevalent idea in these comments that would dismiss Aquinas and Milton for fools whilst worshipping as a genius any Chinaman with a degree in physics is something to behold.

    One thing that makes ancient languages hard is that people thought differently from us.

    Pick up anything written today in French and (assuming you know the language itself, and you’re not reading about something terribly parochial) you’ll find yourself in a world of metaphors, social values and political assumptions very similar to what you see in English books and magazines.

    Not so when you turn to things from long before our time. This piece…
    https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2012/10/28/winning-without-super-pacs
    …is a great little introduction to how easily a modern mind misunderstands the Romans. (The general subject matter is politics, so most readers here will find it engaging enough.)

  50. @International Jew

    I know of two London families who suddenly made their daughters start studying Latin at 16 specifically for this reason.

     

    No need even for that, see "Course II":
    https://www.classics.ox.ac.uk/classics

    Unless I've misunderstood; I've never looked at a British university's course catalogue and I'm struck by much unfamiliar terminology.

    This stuff should exclusively be taught to the well-heeled idle classes who want to while away their time as they pretend to build up skills. (Well maybe they can be hired to write “Trump Dossiers” in later life phases)

    What happened to the “knowledge society” that is forever coming?

    Why not start with

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-ancient/

    and move up to “Learn to Code” quickly.

  51. @Altai
    Are they gay or just public school boys?

    “Public” minus the “l”.

  52. @International Jew
    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she's making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment. Here she is at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit school, heh), teamed up with former illegal immigrant now Princeton professor and fellow cultural arsonist Dan-el Peralta-Padilla:
    https://www.usfca.edu/event/2019-02-27-1700/amazons-others-and-the-alt-right-classics-the-21st-century

    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she’s making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment.

    That was a completely inapposite turn of phrase, IJ. Donna Zuckerberg is the Enlightenment.

    Honestly, if anybody still does not get the fact that Classical Liberalism leads directly and by inevitable degrees to the post-modern calamity of the present day, then he needs to abandon the political discussion and just retire to his estates. Touting the Enlightenment is nothing but clueless Boomerposting. We don’t have time for this.

  53. @Anonymous
    The Zuck siblings are amusing. Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he's based in reality. His hero is Octavian/Augustus which is not PC at all.

    OTOH She's a disgusting loser SJW. And she's using her brother's $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.

    Mark probably resents what she's doing. Augustus would've shipped her off to a sanitarium a long time ago.

    I don't believe Mark is anti-white or anti-goyim. But he goes along with the culture.

    Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he’s based in reality.

    Right. Nothing screams “Reality!” like Facebook.

  54. @Bill P
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    [...]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.
     
    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    Yes I do. Consider the competition: English, History of Art, PPE.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    English is a popular major, so even if it gets a lot of gays, it has a lot of straights as well.

    PPE is like econ and poli sci in the US - it attracts straight guys, both nerdy types who are genuinely interested in social science, and ambitious types who are focused on career success in business, politics, finance, etc.

    Art History tends to be gay.
  55. @International Jew
    And you know this how?

    I just finished the piece about Oscar Wilde and the Oxbridge homosexuals in, “The Rite of Sodomy,” by Randy Engel.

    Evidently, the study of Classical Greece and the homoerotic relationships between older men and boys extant in that culture became part of the Oxbridge culture, especially for those males studying the classics. This was buttressed by the male students’ prior homoerotic experiences in the notorious British “public” boarding schools for the aristocrats and well-to-do.

    I doubt if much has changed over the years in the nexus formed by “public” boarding schools and Oxbridge, especially with the sacralization of the homosexual lifestyle in current British culture. At least Oscar Wilde and most other Oxbridge homosexuals had to hide behind marriage and children to mask their homosexual orgies from the public. Now, Oxbridge homosexuals can parade and celebrate their lifestyle in public.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    This was buttressed

    I see what you did.
  56. @Cortes
    Just following in the footsteps of Julius Caesar, who (according to the poem of Robert Graves in “I, Claudius” was

    “Every man’s woman and
    Every woman’s man.”

    Supposedly, during a Triumph, his troops sang “Ceasar, every wife’s husband and every husband’s wife”.

  57. @Anonymous
    Is Classics a good major?

    Is Classics a good major?

    Yes, if you have a strong interest and are independently wealthy

    • Replies: @DFH
    If you're at Oxford, which humanities subject you study doesn't make much of a difference
  58. @International Jew
    Ovid was exiled to Romania.

    Which Ovid metamorphosed into Bulgaria 🙂

  59. Have there ever been any women classicists of first rank?

    Or is this another discipline, like philosophy, which is in the humanities, but still is dominated entirely at the top by men?

    • Replies: @Flip

    Have there ever been any women classicists of first rank?
    Or is this another discipline, like philosophy, which is in the humanities, but still is dominated entirely at the top by men?

     

    Have there ever been any women in the first rank of anything intellectual?
    , @BB753
    Plenty enough women but few with brains. That's why men still dominate humanities at the top.
  60. “…46.8 per cent of men achieving the top grade compared to 12.5 per cent of their female peers.“

    It turns out that there are two men for every woman with a 130 IQ, and three men for every woman with a 145 IQ. So, it’s likely that Oxford has done a commendable job up until now.

  61. @Anonymous
    The Zuck siblings are amusing. Mark might have a reptilian side but at least he's based in reality. His hero is Octavian/Augustus which is not PC at all.

    OTOH She's a disgusting loser SJW. And she's using her brother's $$$ and reputation to mess up The Classics field with her batshit politics.

    Mark probably resents what she's doing. Augustus would've shipped her off to a sanitarium a long time ago.

    I don't believe Mark is anti-white or anti-goyim. But he goes along with the culture.

    Anyone who knows Octavian is fine by me.

  62. @candid_observer
    Have there ever been any women classicists of first rank?

    Or is this another discipline, like philosophy, which is in the humanities, but still is dominated entirely at the top by men?

    Have there ever been any women classicists of first rank?
    Or is this another discipline, like philosophy, which is in the humanities, but still is dominated entirely at the top by men?

    Have there ever been any women in the first rank of anything intellectual?

  63. @Tyrion 2
    I think we are seeing, and going to see, an ever-increasing swell of people fleeing pozzed intellectual pursuits, pozzed entertainment and pozzed past times. The problem is that we get chased. The other day I was questioned suspiciously for saying I tend to read older literature. The implication was that I was reading pre-pozzed stuff and why would I want or be allowed to do that?

    Only fags read “older literature.”

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    RESIPSALOQVITVR
    , @Autochthon
    RESIPSALOQVITVR
  64. @candid_observer
    Have there ever been any women classicists of first rank?

    Or is this another discipline, like philosophy, which is in the humanities, but still is dominated entirely at the top by men?

    Plenty enough women but few with brains. That’s why men still dominate humanities at the top.

  65. @The Cruncher
    > Your whole post,
    > praising the virtues of homogeneity for Israel
    > contempt for and bashing, intolerant whites.

    The hypocrisy makes my head explode. We White Nazis want the same. You want your country, and ours, too.

    M Krauthammer is the same guy who also posts as Tiny Duck doing parodies of anti-White Leftists.

    He’s making the same point that you are but he is using satire; that Jews and White Nationalists want exactly the same thing; “to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.” Yet while Jews are allowed to do that, Whites are demonized for wanting exactly the same for themselves.

  66. So it takes something as blatant as an open admission by Oxford to forgoe standards to advance women and a the complaints of a wealthy youngsters wife to acknowledge what has been transpiring for for than 40 years of the so called civil rights agenda.

    That being that lowering of standards has not been to cause of blacks, least of all black men, but instead to the benefit of white women especially, oddly enough white woman of an already priviliged background.

    Well by “golly gee wow”

    It’s nice to see someone is catching up. One hope that this realization will not be as so many realizations are among the dominant population a momentary fleeting ray of light of agendized morsel of use but for exercising working one’s gums. White people lowering standards for white people, my side of the aisle awakens to reality.

  67. Just persuade the guys to don wigs and pretend to be womyn.

  68. @Hypnotoad666
    So how exactly does Oxford propose to "overhaul" its Classics Degree to make women do better, and men do worse?

    Or are they just going to dumb it down until everyone gets a "first?"

    It's bad enough there is preferential treatment in admissions. Now it is demanded in grading as well. It's a whole new domain of dishonesty.

    It’s bad enough there is preferential treatment in admissions. Now it is demanded in grading as well. It’s a whole new domain of dishonesty.

    That’s the slippery slope. And it’s inevitable given that preferential treatment in admissions creates precisely the effect they observe on outcomes. We see the same script playing out in so many places.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    I can agree that there is pressure to lower grading standards. The majority of that pressure in my experience was from white students seeking admission to a particular school. That pressure was of course also from administrations seeking to avoid aggressive parents who might file a suit, based on some grade their did not earn.

    To address the matter, and along with others offered students extra credit assignments, mine were work intensive, not merely busy work.
  69. This is interesting information. People usually just talk about the “STEM” gender imbalance but the story seems to be more interesting than that. For US undergrad degrees,

    English, 70/30 female
    Foreign languages, 70/30 female
    History, 60/40 male
    Philosophy, 70/30 male

    In the US, I don’t think classics is a terribly popular major but it seems to be about even between men and women in terms of degrees awarded. In Britain I assume it’s more popular.

    Most gender data is just completion and enrollment. Much less out there on actual performance. Overall I believe girls get better grades and this is not entirely explained by course selection. But for a given major, you might get very different kinds of men and women self-selecting in.

    With mathematical ability, the female talent tends to major in math, tending toward math education. With men, prospective mathematicians will do straight math, but many others will do engineering or computer science instead.

  70. @International Jew
    You can laugh at Donna Zuckerberg, but she's making real progress toward spreading darkness over her own little corner of what remains of the Enlightenment. Here she is at the University of San Francisco (a Jesuit school, heh), teamed up with former illegal immigrant now Princeton professor and fellow cultural arsonist Dan-el Peralta-Padilla:
    https://www.usfca.edu/event/2019-02-27-1700/amazons-others-and-the-alt-right-classics-the-21st-century

    A couple more decades of this shit and it’s going to be White people saying “we was kangz”.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    Yep, just look at the white out-of-wedlock numbers for the past fifty years. Same train, just left the station a little later.
  71. @International Jew
    And you know this how?

    Aren’t they known for oral exams?

  72. @Bill P
    Guess I hit a nerve.

    However:

    Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students.

    57.2% of the respondents said that they had had homosexual fantasies. 54.2% of men also said that they had had fantasied about gay sex, with a slightly higher proportion of women claiming to have had such fantasies.

    [...]

    Again, men proved to be more extreme when it came to experimenting with the same sex. While slightly more women said they had kissed other women, twice as many men (31.2%) said they had performed or received oral sex with another man than women said they had had with other women.
     
    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?

    Reading your link was pretty depressing. My guess is all Oxford students have been to top schools from any country, and look at the worldview they have!

    Will there be any normal, straight couples raising children in the coming generations? These Oxford types sound totally screwed up.

    The only mitigating factor is that the college years are the pinnacle of horniness so the fact that people are having bizarre fantasies, experimenting, and watching gay porn will probably fade a bit as they move into the world of work and responsibility. But I could be wrong and they’ll be wretched and heart-broken their entire lives.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The gays in Oxford and Cambridge, are not new. It's a part of the universities' history.

    However, I think Cambridge is more gay than Oxford now.

    Around Cambridge University, there are now so many gay "rainbow" flags. Even in the winter, you can see gay flags tied to the outside of the windows of student houses.

    , @JMcG
    There was no hornier an adolescent than I. Gay never even crossed my radar screen, other than to fill me with disgust.
  73. @Iron Pastoral
    The reason for this is simple: there is not much of an incentive for anyone interested in "gender" to learn the languages. Why spend all that time studying Greek when you can just use a translation to write some turgid essay about misogyny in Aeschylus? (I'm a former Classics major; I've seen this at first hand.)

    Francis Bacon in the 17th century said studying Greek and Latin is a complete waste of time. And people are still doing it. Nothing like a good argument on theodicy or the virgin birth in Latin to really get the mental wetware up to full speed.

    • Replies: @sayless
    Francis Bacon overgeneralized. Studying Latin or Greek would have been a waste of his time. Not true of everyone.
  74. It’s Donna Zuckerberg’s worst nightmare: more smart guys getting interested in Classics. Steps must be taken.

    Steps have already been taken. Look at the graduation list of any Classics PhD program at Princeton, Chicago, or Berkeley. Mostly women grads writing about imaginary feminism and transgenderism in the ancient world get assistant professor jobs, while the men are usually launched on itinerant careers of doing research on three year grants or teaching Latin and Greek in private high schools.

  75. “Over 1 in 5 men at Oxford have had gay sex, according to a Cherwell survey of the sexual orientation of over 400 students“

    Lovely confusion of Oxford with Oxford’s student population. I’m sure the residents of the notorious Blackbird Leys estate on the eastern edge of town will identify with this survey.

  76. @M Krauthammar
    What you guys call toxic Zionism is just the desire of Jewish people to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.
    What is wrong with it, Nazis?
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    Are you friends with Tiny Duck ?

    I suspect that both of you are Steve when he is on different kinds of drugs. Or perhaps he posts as you guys to get the comment thread moving.

  77. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Autochthon
    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one's focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.). It's the kind of stuff people like Lattimore, Tolkien, and Renault went in for. It's not any easier to excel in than is, say, mathematics or electrical engineering, though of course the aptitudes required for each of those are not the same.

    I do not say it motivates your remark, but the prevalent idea in these comments that would dismiss Aquinas and Milton for fools whilst worshipping as a genius any Chinaman with a degree in physics is something to behold.

    That’s not what academic Classics is. Classics is the study of ancient Greek and Latin language and literature. It does not involve the study of Near Eastern languages like Hittite and Sumerian. And it does not involve the direct study of architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc. Those topics might be indirectly touched upon through a historical or cultural survey or indirectly through the literature. Greek and Latin are not “esoteric” languages, especially given their influence on modern languages, and they can be learned by schoolboys. And Classics degrees generally do not require or impart “fluency” in the languages. They typically involve the “grammar-translation” method, which means knowing lots of grammar and methodically translating texts with dictionaries, but not being particularly fluent. Classics degrees are easier than math or electrical engineering degrees.

    Aquinas and Milton were not “Classicists” in the contemporary sense. Aquinas was on the cutting edge of philosophy and theology in his time. He would not be a Classics major today. He would be in the philosophy or physics department.

    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    You're right that Classics should not be confused with historical linguistics, paleography, archaeology, Near-East Studies, and so on (though a Classics B.A. can make a student competitive for a Ph.D. program in any of those more niche fields).

    But, until the recent degeneracy, I get the feeling that most undergraduate Classics majors (or "Greats" majors) were fluent readers of Latin and Greek. Fluent speakers, no, but that goes without saying.
    , @Autochthon
    I do not claim Greek and Latin are esoteric. You do not understand the proper use of conjunctions and adjectives.

    You completely misunderstand my point about Milton and Aquinas, as you lack the needed capacity for inductive reasoning upon which it depends.

    You're also wrong about classics as a discipline. It does indeed, in its broader applications, include studies of cultures affecting the Greco-Roman world, for the same reasons no proper study of American literature can possibly ignore British literature. Nor is classics exclusively a study of language (not that language can be properly studied in a vacuum of its contexts, just as the International Jew goes on to demonstrate in another remark). You do little more, in fact, than insist that classics is indeed the kind of nonsense Zuckerberg (or any number of equally daft phonies, be they in academia or no) would have it be, despite my care in clarifying the discipline, understood by serious persons and practiced for centuries before the madness of, say, the past thirty years or so.

    The straw man you incorrectly describe as classics is no more in fact classics than is For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf drama, as that term is properly defined.

    You're either very stupid, very obstreperous, or both.
    , @Anonymous
    The great classicist and philologist Revilo P. Oliver first was published for translating Sanskrit, not Greek or Latin, in which he was quite fluent.

    He tells the story of having taken up Sanskrit at eleven or twelve, finding an old Hindu (he was born in 1908, so this would have been during or right after WW1, a time when dot Indians were rarer than hen's teeth in America) who could tutor him.

    Oliver was a great thinker and someday there will be a statue of him in Urbana, with the simple plaque:

    Revilo Pendleton Oliver
    Scholar. Patriot.
    , @International Jew
    Minor point, but Hittite was an Indo-European language. I know of one classicist who has made interesting connections between the mythology of the Hittites, and that of the Greeks.
    http://www.bmcreview.org/2016/11/20161114.html
  78. @M Krauthammar
    What you guys call toxic Zionism is just the desire of Jewish people to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.
    What is wrong with it, Nazis?
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    Lol, seems like this guy is having some trouble with his wife’s black son.

  79. @Anonymous
    Is Classics a good major?

    Depends on what you mean by good. It’s a high IQ and major that has lots of smart weirdos in it. As someone with a degree in classics, I can say that my fellow classmates were very interesting people. The drawback is that it’s not a very marketable degree on its own. Almost every person I know with a classics major, including myself, later got a graduate degree in a professional field in order to be employable.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Almost every person I know with a classics major, including myself, later got a graduate degree in a professional field in order to be employable.
     
    Law would be the obvious choice, and a knowledge of latin terminology would not be a disadvantage. In fact there is a wise Latina on the Supreme Court.

    Politics is another field where classical knowledge is definitely useful, particularly since the issue of a united Europe and North African immigration has been around since stalwarts like Cicero and Julius Caesar were plying their trade as empire-builders.

    Donald Trump is not known as a great reader, but I believe that he must have modeled his management style on various Roman emperors, for example, by playing golf while California burned, and building a wall like that of Hadrian.

    He is also trying hard to avoid the fate of Caligula who was assassinated by a conspiracy involving senators, of Nero who committed suicide after being impeached. All this seems improbable, but when you have a medical report stating that you will never die of natural causes, it behooves one to listen to the vox populi when you are tenens lupum auribus.

    A career in the Church was obviously the destiny of many classical scholars in Trollope's time, but a living doesn't pay much these days and even the Roman church has dropped Latin from daily use. There cannot be many positions for Aramaic scholars teaching New Testament studies either.

  80. Anon[194] • Disclaimer says:

    My experience with Classics majors is that they tended to be among the brightest kids in the college, were frankly eccentric and didn’t care if you thought so, and they were completely cavalier about how they were going to earn a living after graduation. Some of them may have had enough money via trust funds that they knew they would never have to worry about it. I had the impression they tended to come from high-status old families with a long history of advanced academic achievement in their backgrounds, and who were very cultured.

    It is not easy to find a female student with all these traits.

  81. @Steve Sailer
    Mark Z. will buy Bulgaria so he can permanently exile Donna Z. there, like Augustus did to Ovid.

    It would probably be cheaper to buy the isle of Pandateria, where Augustus exiled his daughter, Julia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventotene

  82. @RichardTaylor
    The modern conservative mind seems overly focused on the concrete. Take the propaganda discussed in this article that's used in classrooms. I'm not sure most conservatives even understand how the education establishment uses things like White privilege exercises to demoralize Whites.

    Or take war: conservatives typically love to talk about war - battles, weapons, etc. - but not the political and cultural influences that led to the war in the first place. They will obsess over what kind of tank the Germans or Soviets had in some battle, but don't care much about the more important political machinations of the Left to help Stalin in the years leading up to the war.

    Or take Orwell: most conservatives hear Orwellian State and they think of the material side of it, the literal surveillance equipment. But the real heart of the Orwellian concepts, like the corruption of language or concepts such as memory-hole or doublethink goes over their heads.

    Yes, there are exceptions, but an awful lot of them, at least these days, seem oblivious to anything deeper than the immediate concrete world.

    Having taught in private, public, and government sector environments, I can only speak for my self. The concept of “white privilege” in its traditional understanding and I addressed it when the matter arose did not disparage whites in any way shape or form, unless they were “snow flake” triggered individuals who thought any references to being was a slight, unless one referenced whiteness as next to Godliness. And that even if said discussion was discussed by a white person. It was not a mandate for whites to be quiet and I am unaware of any instructor I associated with who would support the practice.

    I am a conservative and my students knew it.

    As a conservative, and speaking for myself . . . the causes, events, political and military efficacy consequences and environments of war were part and parcel to every discussion on the subject and constituted the majority of said discussions.

    As a conservative, who bachelors in communication (emphasis speech/rhetoric) I can say with confidence that discussions in reference to “1984”‘s “doublethink” is referenced as “doublespeak” and is a very important and frequently referenced construct of power and control. And while i would say that conservatives in academia is a very small community, I don’t think what I have offered is rare. I obtained my post secondary education at a “christian institution.

  83. @res

    It’s bad enough there is preferential treatment in admissions. Now it is demanded in grading as well. It’s a whole new domain of dishonesty.
     
    That's the slippery slope. And it's inevitable given that preferential treatment in admissions creates precisely the effect they observe on outcomes. We see the same script playing out in so many places.

    I can agree that there is pressure to lower grading standards. The majority of that pressure in my experience was from white students seeking admission to a particular school. That pressure was of course also from administrations seeking to avoid aggressive parents who might file a suit, based on some grade their did not earn.

    To address the matter, and along with others offered students extra credit assignments, mine were work intensive, not merely busy work.

  84. @Autochthon
    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one's focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.). It's the kind of stuff people like Lattimore, Tolkien, and Renault went in for. It's not any easier to excel in than is, say, mathematics or electrical engineering, though of course the aptitudes required for each of those are not the same.

    I do not say it motivates your remark, but the prevalent idea in these comments that would dismiss Aquinas and Milton for fools whilst worshipping as a genius any Chinaman with a degree in physics is something to behold.

    Classics — real classics, not the nonsense Zuckerberg and her ilk peddle — is not a phony or easy discipline. It requires fluency in sophisticated and esoteric languages like Latin, ancient Greek, Hittite, Sumerian, etc. along with knowledge of philology, history, and archaeology (depending upon one’s focus, to include architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc.)

    IOW, long hours of solitary study — difficult for more-extroverted women, even very bright ones.

  85. They could advertise that the school of Classics at Oxford is the best place to meet a Latin lover.

  86. @Realist

    Is Classics a good major?
     
    Yes, if you have a strong interest and are independently wealthy

    If you’re at Oxford, which humanities subject you study doesn’t make much of a difference

  87. On occasion, my academic work places me adjacent to the classics, so I can report that, yes, there is a legitimate push from Important Professors at Major Institutions to . . . how do they put it?

    “de-center the role of Latin and Greek in the Classics” . . .

    Yes, there are classicists who want to create classics programs that do not promote anything but a rudimentary knowledge of Latin and Greek. The emphasis is now to be upon “the reception of classical culture,” i.e., carte blanche to study anything and everything but actual Roman and Greek texts, contexts, and cultures.

  88. @aristippus
    Depends on what you mean by good. It's a high IQ and major that has lots of smart weirdos in it. As someone with a degree in classics, I can say that my fellow classmates were very interesting people. The drawback is that it's not a very marketable degree on its own. Almost every person I know with a classics major, including myself, later got a graduate degree in a professional field in order to be employable.

    Almost every person I know with a classics major, including myself, later got a graduate degree in a professional field in order to be employable.

    Law would be the obvious choice, and a knowledge of latin terminology would not be a disadvantage. In fact there is a wise Latina on the Supreme Court.

    Politics is another field where classical knowledge is definitely useful, particularly since the issue of a united Europe and North African immigration has been around since stalwarts like Cicero and Julius Caesar were plying their trade as empire-builders.

    Donald Trump is not known as a great reader, but I believe that he must have modeled his management style on various Roman emperors, for example, by playing golf while California burned, and building a wall like that of Hadrian.

    He is also trying hard to avoid the fate of Caligula who was assassinated by a conspiracy involving senators, of Nero who committed suicide after being impeached. All this seems improbable, but when you have a medical report stating that you will never die of natural causes, it behooves one to listen to the vox populi when you are tenens lupum auribus.

    A career in the Church was obviously the destiny of many classical scholars in Trollope’s time, but a living doesn’t pay much these days and even the Roman church has dropped Latin from daily use. There cannot be many positions for Aramaic scholars teaching New Testament studies either.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    “Law would be the obvious choice, and a knowledge of latin terminology would not be a disadvantage.”

    A pass in Civil (Roman) Law is (or used to be) needed for admission to the Faculty of Advocates (English = Barristers - the bewigged “Rumpoles” with right to appear in the higher Courts) in Scotland.

  89. @Anonymous
    That's not what academic Classics is. Classics is the study of ancient Greek and Latin language and literature. It does not involve the study of Near Eastern languages like Hittite and Sumerian. And it does not involve the direct study of architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc. Those topics might be indirectly touched upon through a historical or cultural survey or indirectly through the literature. Greek and Latin are not "esoteric" languages, especially given their influence on modern languages, and they can be learned by schoolboys. And Classics degrees generally do not require or impart "fluency" in the languages. They typically involve the "grammar-translation" method, which means knowing lots of grammar and methodically translating texts with dictionaries, but not being particularly fluent. Classics degrees are easier than math or electrical engineering degrees.

    Aquinas and Milton were not "Classicists" in the contemporary sense. Aquinas was on the cutting edge of philosophy and theology in his time. He would not be a Classics major today. He would be in the philosophy or physics department.

    You’re right that Classics should not be confused with historical linguistics, paleography, archaeology, Near-East Studies, and so on (though a Classics B.A. can make a student competitive for a Ph.D. program in any of those more niche fields).

    But, until the recent degeneracy, I get the feeling that most undergraduate Classics majors (or “Greats” majors) were fluent readers of Latin and Greek. Fluent speakers, no, but that goes without saying.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    A lot of classicists learn to speak Latin, just for fun. Ancient Greek not so much.

    Of course they can all speak Latin (and or Greek), slowly, if asked to. The just-for-fun part is about learning to chat about modern day-to-day concerns (as opposed to describing battles or political intrigues).
    , @Anonymous
    There are no doubt Classics majors who are fluent readers, but generally the traditional grammar-translation method taught in Classics does not promote fluency. The emphasis is on grammatical knowledge and methodical translation.
  90. @Seth Largo
    You're right that Classics should not be confused with historical linguistics, paleography, archaeology, Near-East Studies, and so on (though a Classics B.A. can make a student competitive for a Ph.D. program in any of those more niche fields).

    But, until the recent degeneracy, I get the feeling that most undergraduate Classics majors (or "Greats" majors) were fluent readers of Latin and Greek. Fluent speakers, no, but that goes without saying.

    A lot of classicists learn to speak Latin, just for fun. Ancient Greek not so much.

    Of course they can all speak Latin (and or Greek), slowly, if asked to. The just-for-fun part is about learning to chat about modern day-to-day concerns (as opposed to describing battles or political intrigues).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The most active place for working conversational Latin today seems to be Finland.

    Nuntii Latini
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Nuntii Latini is a Finnish news service that broadcasts in Latin. It has been broadcast since September 1989 by the Finnish national broadcaster Yle (Radiophonia Finnica Generalis) on the Yle Radio 1-channel.
    Station output
    There is a weekly broadcast of recent world news and human interest. Articles are usually alternately read by a male and female announcer, in Latin. Pronunciation is, for the most part, "classical" and listeners can follow a written transcript of news items. A "Glossarium programmatis" is provided for each program translating 6 to 10 of the key Latin terms into Finnish, English, and German.
     
    They even have the Latin Elvis:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhEb2xqINBoHcRiL5fzhKjPdcSPk2VxlT&v=46yY3LSgiLI
  91. Nope, never took a lick of those littoral languages; “it’s all Greek to me,” but will presumptuously suggest the following:

    Learn to ode.

  92. @Anonymous
    That's not what academic Classics is. Classics is the study of ancient Greek and Latin language and literature. It does not involve the study of Near Eastern languages like Hittite and Sumerian. And it does not involve the direct study of architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc. Those topics might be indirectly touched upon through a historical or cultural survey or indirectly through the literature. Greek and Latin are not "esoteric" languages, especially given their influence on modern languages, and they can be learned by schoolboys. And Classics degrees generally do not require or impart "fluency" in the languages. They typically involve the "grammar-translation" method, which means knowing lots of grammar and methodically translating texts with dictionaries, but not being particularly fluent. Classics degrees are easier than math or electrical engineering degrees.

    Aquinas and Milton were not "Classicists" in the contemporary sense. Aquinas was on the cutting edge of philosophy and theology in his time. He would not be a Classics major today. He would be in the philosophy or physics department.

    I do not claim Greek and Latin are esoteric. You do not understand the proper use of conjunctions and adjectives.

    You completely misunderstand my point about Milton and Aquinas, as you lack the needed capacity for inductive reasoning upon which it depends.

    You’re also wrong about classics as a discipline. It does indeed, in its broader applications, include studies of cultures affecting the Greco-Roman world, for the same reasons no proper study of American literature can possibly ignore British literature. Nor is classics exclusively a study of language (not that language can be properly studied in a vacuum of its contexts, just as the International Jew goes on to demonstrate in another remark). You do little more, in fact, than insist that classics is indeed the kind of nonsense Zuckerberg (or any number of equally daft phonies, be they in academia or no) would have it be, despite my care in clarifying the discipline, understood by serious persons and practiced for centuries before the madness of, say, the past thirty years or so.

    The straw man you incorrectly describe as classics is no more in fact classics than is For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf drama, as that term is properly defined.

    You’re either very stupid, very obstreperous, or both.

  93. @Seth Largo
    You're right that Classics should not be confused with historical linguistics, paleography, archaeology, Near-East Studies, and so on (though a Classics B.A. can make a student competitive for a Ph.D. program in any of those more niche fields).

    But, until the recent degeneracy, I get the feeling that most undergraduate Classics majors (or "Greats" majors) were fluent readers of Latin and Greek. Fluent speakers, no, but that goes without saying.

    There are no doubt Classics majors who are fluent readers, but generally the traditional grammar-translation method taught in Classics does not promote fluency. The emphasis is on grammatical knowledge and methodical translation.

  94. @stillCARealist
    Reading your link was pretty depressing. My guess is all Oxford students have been to top schools from any country, and look at the worldview they have!

    Will there be any normal, straight couples raising children in the coming generations? These Oxford types sound totally screwed up.

    The only mitigating factor is that the college years are the pinnacle of horniness so the fact that people are having bizarre fantasies, experimenting, and watching gay porn will probably fade a bit as they move into the world of work and responsibility. But I could be wrong and they'll be wretched and heart-broken their entire lives.

    The gays in Oxford and Cambridge, are not new. It’s a part of the universities’ history.

    However, I think Cambridge is more gay than Oxford now.

    Around Cambridge University, there are now so many gay “rainbow” flags. Even in the winter, you can see gay flags tied to the outside of the windows of student houses.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    how does one download photos under the comments?
  95. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    That's not what academic Classics is. Classics is the study of ancient Greek and Latin language and literature. It does not involve the study of Near Eastern languages like Hittite and Sumerian. And it does not involve the direct study of architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc. Those topics might be indirectly touched upon through a historical or cultural survey or indirectly through the literature. Greek and Latin are not "esoteric" languages, especially given their influence on modern languages, and they can be learned by schoolboys. And Classics degrees generally do not require or impart "fluency" in the languages. They typically involve the "grammar-translation" method, which means knowing lots of grammar and methodically translating texts with dictionaries, but not being particularly fluent. Classics degrees are easier than math or electrical engineering degrees.

    Aquinas and Milton were not "Classicists" in the contemporary sense. Aquinas was on the cutting edge of philosophy and theology in his time. He would not be a Classics major today. He would be in the philosophy or physics department.

    The great classicist and philologist Revilo P. Oliver first was published for translating Sanskrit, not Greek or Latin, in which he was quite fluent.

    He tells the story of having taken up Sanskrit at eleven or twelve, finding an old Hindu (he was born in 1908, so this would have been during or right after WW1, a time when dot Indians were rarer than hen’s teeth in America) who could tutor him.

    Oliver was a great thinker and someday there will be a statue of him in Urbana, with the simple plaque:

    Revilo Pendleton Oliver
    Scholar. Patriot.

  96. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew
    A lot of classicists learn to speak Latin, just for fun. Ancient Greek not so much.

    Of course they can all speak Latin (and or Greek), slowly, if asked to. The just-for-fun part is about learning to chat about modern day-to-day concerns (as opposed to describing battles or political intrigues).

    The most active place for working conversational Latin today seems to be Finland.

    Nuntii Latini
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Nuntii Latini is a Finnish news service that broadcasts in Latin. It has been broadcast since September 1989 by the Finnish national broadcaster Yle (Radiophonia Finnica Generalis) on the Yle Radio 1-channel.
    Station output
    There is a weekly broadcast of recent world news and human interest. Articles are usually alternately read by a male and female announcer, in Latin. Pronunciation is, for the most part, “classical” and listeners can follow a written transcript of news items. A “Glossarium programmatis” is provided for each program translating 6 to 10 of the key Latin terms into Finnish, English, and German.

    They even have the Latin Elvis:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhEb2xqINBoHcRiL5fzhKjPdcSPk2VxlT&v=46yY3LSgiLI

    • Replies: @International Jew
    Cool, thanks. Very clear enunciation, even if the accent (Finnish, I guess) is pretty funny.

    There was some kind of Latin conversation movement under Mussolini (no surprise). A few years back, while browsing a book stall in Sienna, I found (and bought) an Italian-Latin conversation guide published in the 1930s and intended for use in schools. It's great fun.
  97. @Steve Sailer
    Mark Z. will buy Bulgaria so he can permanently exile Donna Z. there, like Augustus did to Ovid.

    Having actually known some Bulgarian women, let me tell you: they would not put up with Mlle. Zuckerberg’s shit for five minutes. He’ll have to confine her to his keep in Hawai’i if he wishes to spare her wretched life, where at least she’ll find refuge under the aegis of the Steven Tyler Act.

  98. @simple_pseudonymic_handle
    Francis Bacon in the 17th century said studying Greek and Latin is a complete waste of time. And people are still doing it. Nothing like a good argument on theodicy or the virgin birth in Latin to really get the mental wetware up to full speed.

    Francis Bacon overgeneralized. Studying Latin or Greek would have been a waste of his time. Not true of everyone.

  99. @Iron Pastoral
    The reason for this is simple: there is not much of an incentive for anyone interested in "gender" to learn the languages. Why spend all that time studying Greek when you can just use a translation to write some turgid essay about misogyny in Aeschylus? (I'm a former Classics major; I've seen this at first hand.)

    Hey, I’ve heard no translation of Aristophanes captures the gleeful obscenity of the original. Having done Lysistrata, I’d call that a powerful motivation.

  100. @M Krauthammar
    What you guys call toxic Zionism is just the desire of Jewish people to live and thrive among their own, without the welfare burden, gun crime, epidemic rape, and extra educational requirements that come with populations they were never meant to live alongside in vast numbers.
    What is wrong with it, Nazis?
    Thank God , Conservatives will be vastly outvoted in every election after 2020.
    Conservatives have ruined America. Just look at Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky and other Red States.
    Trailer Park trash, hillbillies and rednecks should perish.

    I am desperate for the day White Nazis will become a powerless Minority in this country.
    That will be great.

    What in the Sam Hill has that to do with imminent grade inflation (and the requisite curriculum down-dumbing) at Oxford?

  101. @Jonathan Mason

    Almost every person I know with a classics major, including myself, later got a graduate degree in a professional field in order to be employable.
     
    Law would be the obvious choice, and a knowledge of latin terminology would not be a disadvantage. In fact there is a wise Latina on the Supreme Court.

    Politics is another field where classical knowledge is definitely useful, particularly since the issue of a united Europe and North African immigration has been around since stalwarts like Cicero and Julius Caesar were plying their trade as empire-builders.

    Donald Trump is not known as a great reader, but I believe that he must have modeled his management style on various Roman emperors, for example, by playing golf while California burned, and building a wall like that of Hadrian.

    He is also trying hard to avoid the fate of Caligula who was assassinated by a conspiracy involving senators, of Nero who committed suicide after being impeached. All this seems improbable, but when you have a medical report stating that you will never die of natural causes, it behooves one to listen to the vox populi when you are tenens lupum auribus.

    A career in the Church was obviously the destiny of many classical scholars in Trollope's time, but a living doesn't pay much these days and even the Roman church has dropped Latin from daily use. There cannot be many positions for Aramaic scholars teaching New Testament studies either.

    “Law would be the obvious choice, and a knowledge of latin terminology would not be a disadvantage.”

    A pass in Civil (Roman) Law is (or used to be) needed for admission to the Faculty of Advocates (English = Barristers – the bewigged “Rumpoles” with right to appear in the higher Courts) in Scotland.

  102. @Maus
    Canes femininae Latinam et Graecam non possent discere. Simple as that. QED.

    Cucurbita! Bracis meis vescere.

  103. @TheJester
    I just finished the piece about Oscar Wilde and the Oxbridge homosexuals in, "The Rite of Sodomy," by Randy Engel.

    Evidently, the study of Classical Greece and the homoerotic relationships between older men and boys extant in that culture became part of the Oxbridge culture, especially for those males studying the classics. This was buttressed by the male students' prior homoerotic experiences in the notorious British "public" boarding schools for the aristocrats and well-to-do.

    I doubt if much has changed over the years in the nexus formed by "public" boarding schools and Oxbridge, especially with the sacralization of the homosexual lifestyle in current British culture. At least Oscar Wilde and most other Oxbridge homosexuals had to hide behind marriage and children to mask their homosexual orgies from the public. Now, Oxbridge homosexuals can parade and celebrate their lifestyle in public.

    This was buttressed

    I see what you did.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar


    This was buttressed
     
    I see what you did.
     
    But was it a flying buttress?


    https://study.com/cimages/videopreview/videopreview-full/1apc97q1h0.jpg
  104. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @dvorak

    Do you really think that gays are underrepresented in the Classics dept. when compared to the student body as a whole?
     
    Yes I do. Consider the competition: English, History of Art, PPE.

    English is a popular major, so even if it gets a lot of gays, it has a lot of straights as well.

    PPE is like econ and poli sci in the US – it attracts straight guys, both nerdy types who are genuinely interested in social science, and ambitious types who are focused on career success in business, politics, finance, etc.

    Art History tends to be gay.

  105. @donut
    A couple more decades of this shit and it's going to be White people saying "we was kangz".

    Yep, just look at the white out-of-wedlock numbers for the past fifty years. Same train, just left the station a little later.

  106. @stillCARealist
    Reading your link was pretty depressing. My guess is all Oxford students have been to top schools from any country, and look at the worldview they have!

    Will there be any normal, straight couples raising children in the coming generations? These Oxford types sound totally screwed up.

    The only mitigating factor is that the college years are the pinnacle of horniness so the fact that people are having bizarre fantasies, experimenting, and watching gay porn will probably fade a bit as they move into the world of work and responsibility. But I could be wrong and they'll be wretched and heart-broken their entire lives.

    There was no hornier an adolescent than I. Gay never even crossed my radar screen, other than to fill me with disgust.

    • Replies: @Autochthon

    There was no hornier adolescent than I.
     
    So versatile!

    – The first sentence of a bawdy Bildungsroman?

    – Excerpt from the long lost libretto to a musical comedy by Cole Porter and Noël Coward?

    – Wry lyric by Neil Tennant?

    – Sardonic quip by Jerry Springer? (cf. his classic riposte to an incestuous man "I love my sister too, but not like that...")

    – Subtitle to the memoirs of Wilt Chamberlain or Traci Lords?

    – Bit of a dirty limerick?

    – An indignant protestation by Cugel the Clever?

    – Epitaph for the tombstone of Jean Genet?

    – Bespoke cocktail at a hipster martini bar?
  107. @Rosamond Vincy
    This was buttressed

    I see what you did.

    This was buttressed

    I see what you did.

    But was it a flying buttress?

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    I don't give a flying fortification.

    https://talesontheborder.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/the-hunchback-of-notre-dame-2.png
    , @Brutusale
    Flying buttress? SNL had it covered.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ5u8JWHhMM
  108. @Trevor H.
    Thread derailed! But which kind do you object to the most, the W.H. Aiden or Evelyn Waugh kind? Or the Rock Hudson or Freddie Mercury kind?

    I'd bet at least some of the guys taking firsts in Classics at Oxford would make interesting dinner table conversation.

    I’d bet at least some of the guys taking firsts in Classics at Oxford

    Yes, make sure you get that R in there. OxTail culture is bad enough without importing Russian Riverisms.

  109. @Reg Cæsar


    This was buttressed
     
    I see what you did.
     
    But was it a flying buttress?


    https://study.com/cimages/videopreview/videopreview-full/1apc97q1h0.jpg

    I don’t give a flying fortification.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    The Bells!

    The Bells!

    (A female colleague was the double of Charles Lawton.)

  110. @Rosamond Vincy
    I don't give a flying fortification.

    https://talesontheborder.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/the-hunchback-of-notre-dame-2.png

    The Bells!

    The Bells!

    (A female colleague was the double of Charles Lawton.)

  111. @anon
    Only fags read "older literature."

    RESIPSALOQVITVR

  112. @anon
    Only fags read "older literature."

    RESIPSALOQVITVR

  113. @Anonymous
    That's not what academic Classics is. Classics is the study of ancient Greek and Latin language and literature. It does not involve the study of Near Eastern languages like Hittite and Sumerian. And it does not involve the direct study of architecture, art, metallurgy, archaeology, etc. Those topics might be indirectly touched upon through a historical or cultural survey or indirectly through the literature. Greek and Latin are not "esoteric" languages, especially given their influence on modern languages, and they can be learned by schoolboys. And Classics degrees generally do not require or impart "fluency" in the languages. They typically involve the "grammar-translation" method, which means knowing lots of grammar and methodically translating texts with dictionaries, but not being particularly fluent. Classics degrees are easier than math or electrical engineering degrees.

    Aquinas and Milton were not "Classicists" in the contemporary sense. Aquinas was on the cutting edge of philosophy and theology in his time. He would not be a Classics major today. He would be in the philosophy or physics department.

    Minor point, but Hittite was an Indo-European language. I know of one classicist who has made interesting connections between the mythology of the Hittites, and that of the Greeks.
    http://www.bmcreview.org/2016/11/20161114.html

  114. General Melchett weighs in….

  115. @Dmitry
    The gays in Oxford and Cambridge, are not new. It's a part of the universities' history.

    However, I think Cambridge is more gay than Oxford now.

    Around Cambridge University, there are now so many gay "rainbow" flags. Even in the winter, you can see gay flags tied to the outside of the windows of student houses.

    how does one download photos under the comments?

  116. ‘Women, shit.’ the tall convict said.

    William Faulkner: If I Forget Thee, Jerusalem, the ending

  117. @Tyrion 2
    I think we are seeing, and going to see, an ever-increasing swell of people fleeing pozzed intellectual pursuits, pozzed entertainment and pozzed past times. The problem is that we get chased. The other day I was questioned suspiciously for saying I tend to read older literature. The implication was that I was reading pre-pozzed stuff and why would I want or be allowed to do that?

    The other day I was questioned suspiciously for saying I tend to read older literature.

    Why do you tend to read older literature? What sort?

  118. @Anonymous
    The most active place for working conversational Latin today seems to be Finland.

    Nuntii Latini
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Nuntii Latini is a Finnish news service that broadcasts in Latin. It has been broadcast since September 1989 by the Finnish national broadcaster Yle (Radiophonia Finnica Generalis) on the Yle Radio 1-channel.
    Station output
    There is a weekly broadcast of recent world news and human interest. Articles are usually alternately read by a male and female announcer, in Latin. Pronunciation is, for the most part, "classical" and listeners can follow a written transcript of news items. A "Glossarium programmatis" is provided for each program translating 6 to 10 of the key Latin terms into Finnish, English, and German.
     
    They even have the Latin Elvis:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLhEb2xqINBoHcRiL5fzhKjPdcSPk2VxlT&v=46yY3LSgiLI

    Cool, thanks. Very clear enunciation, even if the accent (Finnish, I guess) is pretty funny.

    There was some kind of Latin conversation movement under Mussolini (no surprise). A few years back, while browsing a book stall in Sienna, I found (and bought) an Italian-Latin conversation guide published in the 1930s and intended for use in schools. It’s great fun.

  119. @Altai
    Are they gay or just public school boys?

    I’ll go with 40%, just like the Cambridge Five.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35360172

  120. @Reg Cæsar


    This was buttressed
     
    I see what you did.
     
    But was it a flying buttress?


    https://study.com/cimages/videopreview/videopreview-full/1apc97q1h0.jpg

    Flying buttress? SNL had it covered.

  121. @JMcG
    There was no hornier an adolescent than I. Gay never even crossed my radar screen, other than to fill me with disgust.

    There was no hornier adolescent than I.

    So versatile!

    – The first sentence of a bawdy Bildungsroman?

    – Excerpt from the long lost libretto to a musical comedy by Cole Porter and Noël Coward?

    – Wry lyric by Neil Tennant?

    – Sardonic quip by Jerry Springer? (cf. his classic riposte to an incestuous man “I love my sister too, but not like that…”)

    – Subtitle to the memoirs of Wilt Chamberlain or Traci Lords?

    – Bit of a dirty limerick?

    – An indignant protestation by Cugel the Clever?

    – Epitaph for the tombstone of Jean Genet?

    – Bespoke cocktail at a hipster martini bar?

  122. @Altai
    Are they gay or just public school boys?

    Getting blown by a guy a few times doesn’t make you gay, does it? Asking for a friend.

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