The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 iSteve BlogTeasers
Donna Zuckerberg on the Alt-Right Menace from Ancient Greece and Rome
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments

Where’s the Diversity?

From Eidolon:

How to Be a Good Classicist Under a Bad Emperor

by Donna Zuckerberg

Silicon Valley-based Classics scholar. Editor of Eidolon .
Nov 21

A specter is haunting the Internet — the specter of the “alt-right.” The forces of white supremacy and toxic masculinity, fueled by a sense of entitlement dwarfed only by their inflated estimation of their own intelligence, have entered into an unholy alliance to remove feminism, political correctness, and multiculturalism from America. And on November 8th, 2016, after enduring years of mockery, months of being told that the arc of the moral universe would never let it win, the Alt-Right scored its first significant political victory: the election of Donald Trump to the highest office of the most powerful country in the world.

Who are these people? They are part of a group of a few hundred thousand men who have “swallowed the red pill” and belong to a few allied online movements: not just the Alt-Right, but also men’s rights activists, the manosphere, and GamerGate. At times these groups seem more clearly defined by what they oppose than what they support, but they’ve also mobilized to fight for men’s rights in a “gynocentric” society, harass women on Twitter, and redefine Pepe the Frog. They are younger than the typical conservative establishment, white, and male. They are antisemitic, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic. Some are self-described Neo-Nazis.

They also love the classics.

This is at once surprising — most classicists I know consider themselves politically liberal — and not, because when we’re truly honest, we see that for many the study of Classics is the study of one elite white man after another. The same texts that are for us sources of beauty and brutality, subjects of commentary and critique, are for these men (and they really are almost exclusively men) proof of the intellectual and cultural superiority of white maleness.

The Alt-Right is hungry to learn more about the ancient world. It believes that the classics are integral to education. It is utterly convinced that classical antiquity is relevant to the world we live in today, a comfort to classicists who have spent decades worrying that the field may be sliding into irrelevance in the eyes of the public.

The next four years are going to be a very difficult time for many people. But if we’re not careful, it could be a dangerously easy time for those who study ancient Greece and Rome. Classics, supported by the worst men on the Internet, could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Classics made great again.

This is my call to arms for all classicists. No matter how white and male Classics once was, we are not that anymore. In spite of the numerous obstacles that remain, our field is now more diverse than ever, and that is something to be proud of.

These men are positioning themselves as the defenders of Western Civilization. Classicists, when you see this rhetoric, fight back. We must not allow the Alt-Right to define what Classics will mean in Trump’s America.

Just how interested is the Alt-Right in Classics? On the one hand, it is very interested in the cultural capital of antiquity. An article published yesterday in the New York Times shows how freely they use classical references — “crossing the Rubicon,” “ascending to Olympus.” On the other, the movement appears to have little interest in understanding the ancient world in any way other than the most superficial one.

I know about this interest from personal experience — that is, from Twitter trolls and comments on Eidolon articles. …

Steve Bannon, former Breitbart News executive chairman and newly appointed Chief Strategist to President-Elect Donald Trump, told Mother Jones this August that Breitbart is “the platform for the alt-right.”

Is there any evidence that Bannon was using this rather vague term in the sense that Dr. Zuckerberg is using it?

In recent weeks, Breitbart editors have backtracked on that claim, and they now argue that their site has only one piece of explicitly Alt-Right content: “An Establishment Conservative’s Guide to the Alt-Right” by Allum Bokhari and Milo Yiannopoulos (who, incidentally, was using the Twitter handle “@nero” when he was banned from the platform this summer). In that article, they write that the preservation of Western Culture is of monumental importance to the audiences for Alt-Right content:

[A]ttempts to scrub western history of its great figures are particularly galling to the alt-right, who in addition to the preservation of western culture, care deeply about heroes and heroic virtues. This follows decades in which left-wingers on campus sought to remove the study of “dead white males” from the focus of western history and literature curricula… to a natural conservative, such cultural vandalism may just be their highest priority.

… Unfortunately, I have met a few professional classicists who would prefer that the entire discipline embraced the model Quintus Curtius espouses for “classical knowledge.” Victor Davis Hanson explicitly trumpeted the same views in Who Killed Homer: “This new, ultrasensitive curriculum and its appendages — diversity training, journal writing, gender and racial sensitivity, multiculturalism, situational ethics, personal growth and self-indulgence, and the politics of commitment — ran directly counter to Greek wisdom” (118). For all that he is beloved by the Right, most classicists have little time for VDH these days — but many nevertheless agree, quietly, that as a field we’ve lost something in our increasing focus on race, class and gender in the ancient world. Our field is still, in many ways, in thrall to the Great Men model of history.

Kind of like movies and TV shows with Aaron Sorkin screenplays, such as West Wing, Moneyball, and Steve Jobs?

And others may disagree, but still feel that Daryush “Roosh V” Valizadeh has a point when he writes of the moral vacuum that would exist without an understanding of historical precedent in his article “What is a Social Justice Warrior (SJW)?”:

Even if Aristotle, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, Thomas Aquinas, or Henry David Thoreau had valuable wisdom that continues to help how millions of people live today, the information derived from their work must be completely discarded since they were white men. Since white men were at the forefront of advancing humanity for the past several centuries, especially after the decline of the Egyptian, Persian, Mongol, and Ottoman empires, this precludes the bulk of moral guidance that we can use to determine right and wrong. SJW’s invent their own moral code but it is often based on what they are upset about in the present moment. It does not serve as a guide for more than a month or two, suggesting that their book of code would have to be written in pencil.

You yourself might be horrified by his sentiment — but have you ever argued that we should study Classics because those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it? Or because Greece and Rome are important to study because they are at the foundation of Western civilization and culture? Valizadeh’s argument here is the most offensive, sarcastically stated version of arguments that are made all the time by those within the discipline in favor of studying the classics.

Next time you hear either of those arguments made, remember: they are also made by a man who tells stories about raping women in his “Bang” series of “game guides,” who believes that “Women Must Have Their Behavior And Decisions Controlled By Men,” who recently rejoiced because the election of Donald Trump “automatically legitimizes masculine behaviors that were previously labeled sexist and misogynist” — a man who was rejected by the Alt-Right for being insufficiently white himself.

It is time for Classics as a discipline to say to these men: we will not give you more fodder for your ludicrous theory that white men are morally and intellectually superior to all other races and genders. We do not support your myopic vision of “Western Civilization.” Your version of antiquity is shallow, poorly contextualized, and unnuanced. When you use the classics to support your hateful ideas, we will push back by exposing just how weak your understanding is, how much you have invested in something about which you know so little.

Last week, I gave two lectures about my research on Classics and the manosphere. Both times, people asked me afterwards, “But what can we do?” I don’t have an answer to that question that I’m completely satisfied with.

But I do have a few ideas, and I hope we can start a dialogue within the discipline to discuss the problems further.

When you hear someone —be they a student, a colleague, or an amateur — say that they are interested in Classics because of “the Greek miracle” or because Classics is “the foundation of Western civilization and culture,” challenge that viewpoint respectfully but forcefully. Engage them on their assumed definitions of “foundation,” “Western,” “civilization,” and “culture.” Point out that such ideas are a slippery slope to white supremacy. Seek better reasons for studying Classics.

In your scholarship, focus on the parts of antiquity that aren’t elite white men. Read and cite the work of scholars who write about race, gender, and class in the ancient world. Be open about the marginalization and bias that exists within our discipline. Model a kind of Classics that isn’t quite so congenial to the neo-Nazis of the Alt-Right.

As the Alt-Right becomes more vocal and normalized, we may face pressure to frame our research and teaching in a way that will appeal to this new audience of Classics enthusiasts. Resist that pressure.

Do not write content for these men. …

Consider coming out in support of progressive student and community movements. Classics has a long history of regressive politics, and if we are serious about social justice and activism, we must speak out.

Write to professional Classics organizations, including the Society for Classical Studies, and encourage them to take a stand against these groups. Samuel Huskey has written and shared a lovely example of such a letter.

If you are so inclined, engage with the classical reception that these men produce. There is a narrative blooming that you can see in that Breitbart Guide to the Alt-Right, where the writers claim, “Skinheads, by and large, are low-information, low-IQ thugs driven by the thrill of violence and tribal hatred. The alternative right are a much smarter group of people — which perhaps suggests why the Left hates them so much. They’re dangerously bright.” But the Alt-Right are not “dangerously bright.” They are young men — if you’ll excuse the pun, the kids are alt-right — whose inane readings of classical texts often provide a window into their intellectual shortcomings.

I am considering creating a Tumblr to document examples of Alt-Right Classics. If you are interested in contributing, contact the Eidolon team (eidolon@paideia-institute.org).

… But classicists are uniquely positioned to fight back against the self-mythologizing of the Alt-Right. When we see Classics used to support a hateful politics, we must push back — unless we want to live through a second wave of fascist classical reception.

Donna Zuckerberg is the Editor-in-Chief of Eidolon . She received her PhD in Classics from Princeton and teaches for Stanford Continuing Studies and the Paideia Institute. Her book Not All Dead White Men , a study of the reception of Classics in Red Pill communities, is due to be released in Fall 2017 by Harvard University Press. Read more of her work here.

Screenshot 2016-12-17 16.50.10 Fight the Power!

Of course, Dr. Donna Zuckerberg’s brother happens to be the most elite white man of his generation, as measured in gigabucks, and also perhaps the most powerful due to his being the chief owner and operator of the world’s most powerful communications platform, Facebook.

Scott Locklin responded to Donna Zuckerberg that Mark Zuckerberg is a huge fan of that most Dead White Man book of them all, The Aeneid. From Jose Antonio Vargas’s article about Mark Zuckerberg in The New Yorker in 2010:

He first read the Aeneid while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Aeneas’s quest and his desire to build a city that, he said, quoting the text in English, “knows no boundaries in time and greatness.” Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. (Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg, who served as Facebook’s president when the company was incorporated, said, “There’s a part of him that—it was present even when he was twenty, twenty-one—this kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odysseys and all that stuff.”) At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Aeneid.

On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of particular verses. Later that night, he IM’d to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the Latin and then the English: “fortune favors the bold” and “a nation/empire without bound.”

“Nation/Empire without bound” is likely the single most explanatory phrase I could imagine coming out of Mark Zuckerberg’s mouth. Mark has always struck me as somebody who would be a conservative nationalist if he lived in the nation of Israel, but who can make more money as a liberal globalist in the America empire.

P.S. Here’s Dr. Zuckerberg’s Facebook page, Sugar Mountain Treats, of delicious-looking desserts she bakes.

 
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>
    []
  1. Sorry about the format being messed up initially. Click on the headline of the posting to see the post in proper formatting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    That was some weird formatting, alright.

    Those Darned Russians!
    , @Yak-15
    Interesting to note that Steve's article here resulted in 20x the number of responses. Zuck responds in her comment section to other comments. Why dont readers from here more go there and interact with her?
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Sorry about the format being messed up initially.
     
    You realize the classics were originally written, or carved, in Flintstony block capitals, and ran in both directions?

    Greek looks really stylish and intellectual in lower case minuscules, but those long postdated most of the Greeks who count for anything.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    //www.unz.com/isteve/donna-zuckerberg-the-alt-right-menace-from-ancient-greece-and-rome/#comment-1695566
    More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. Shorter version: Whoops, we fucked up by pushing identity politics for everybody else while conspicuously excluding white men, and now white men are using our own tools against us. Now we have to stuff that toothpaste back in the tube by telling white guys that not only are they not allowed to talk about anybody else’s culture and history, they’re not allowed to talk about their own culture and history, either. We, the SJWs, own it all.

    While we’re at it, we own the space program, too, you haters. Haven’t you seen “Hidden Figures?” All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

    I assume they’ll eventually get around to telling Sailer he’s not allowed to use statistics, because Racism.

    This sure seems like a terrific recipe for social harmony.

    Read More
    • LOL: Abe
    • Replies: @Mr. Blank
    You know, just screw these people. I've just had it. I can't play video games without being a racist, I can't watch sports without being a racist, I can't listen to music without being a racist. Fine, whatever.

    Now I can't read Homer or Plato or Plutarch without being a racist. Always, everywhere, whatever I do, I'm somehow scheming to put blacks back in chains and women in the kitchen. No pleasure I can have escapes the stain of my distant ancestors.

    All accounts must be settled, all crooked roads must be made straight, all mountains and valleys must be leveled to achieve perfect justice. Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies. It's an urge so strong it manifests itself even in people who don't believe in God.

    I'm beginning to understand why wise gurus supposedly went to live on mountaintops, away from all human contact.
    , @Barnard
    I just watched last Sunday's episode of Legends and Lies on Fox News. Did you know without the 88 blacks in the Rhode Island 1st Regiment, the Battle of Yorktown would have been lost? It was news to me. They also told us honorary non white Alexander Hamilton asked to lead them in the assult on Redoubt 10. To be fair, the previous installments were better than this one.
    , @SFG
    They're not going to win--the stuff's in the public domain and, thanks, at least in part, to (((James Loeb))), there are cheap classics editions all over the place.

    There'll be Plutarch and Homer way past when the last SJW passes away. If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.
    , @Olorin

    Whoops, we fucked up by pushing identity politics for everybody else while conspicuously excluding white men, and now white men are using our own tools against us. Now we have to stuff that toothpaste back in the tube by telling white guys that not only are they not allowed to talk about anybody else’s culture and history, they’re not allowed to talk about their own culture and history, either. We, the SJWs, own it all.
     
    Turning everything real into (((real))) estate is the old Babylonian/Sumerian formula, and Abraham came out of that set of political and economic innovations ya know. Goat herders are not the seedbed of sanhedrin.

    Similarly if you want to be part of the real estate terrain of identity politics/PC, you have to pay rent, and your landlords will determine what it is. ("Apologize for your superiority!" "OK, OK, I apologize." "Now apologize and grovel!" "Erm, OK, for now, to keep things simple." "Now apologize, grovel, and let us beat you up!" Eventually the demand is: cease to exist. But that was the intention all along.)

    Since white men produce most of the valuable stuff of the real world, they make the best renters. Eminently milkable for higher and higher rent in fact. As has been demonstrated repeatedly in the past 2,000 years.

    The point isn't harmony or progress or evolution or anything of the sort. The point is rent-taking pure and simple. My utopia is, with enough power behind it, a real estate scam to which you must pay rent. Like heaven, in fact. Pie in the sky by and by when you die. ("That's a lie!")

    When the (((Zuckerbergs))) of the world start screeching in the above genre, it is solely because their landlordism has faced a challenge. YOU may think that the earth upon which your ancestors stood, lived, fought, and died is sacred. But the (((Zucks))) are here to wave deeds in your face and claim your own title is bogus. Now pony up, white man!

    This is why Trump is such a slap in the face. He beat the Manhattan landlords at their own game. When Aristotle pointed out the innate hierarchalism of all nature, he referred to something natural and spectacular that cannot be faked. The (((Donna Zuckerbergs))) of the world use their access and power to impose a fake hierarchy, for their own benefit, and that of those they choose to apportion it to, because they are not inhabited by the genuine form, which is bestowed by the gods.

    This is a heinous act that violates the first three Commandments, which deal with stealing god's honor...but I'm a nonbeliever, so what do I know about such things?

    They know that "god" and god alone apportions superiority, which accounts for their perpetual subterranean magma of resentment and aggression.

  3. @Steve Sailer
    Sorry about the format being messed up initially. Click on the headline of the posting to see the post in proper formatting.

    That was some weird formatting, alright.

    Those Darned Russians!

    Read More
  4. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Funny that Alt Right is all about ‘entitlement’ when they are the most blacklisted and marginalized political movement in America.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Funny that Alt Right is all about ‘entitlement’ when they are the most blacklisted and marginalized political movement in America."

    The mainstream media is more tolerant of Muslim terrorists, cop killers, and pedophile NAMBLA than they are of the Alt-Right.

    Remember when Rolling Stone tried to paint one of the Tsarnaev brothers as a rock star. Could you see Rolling Stone ever doing that to Richard Spencer?

  5. the most elite white man of his generation

    Is he though ? As an article here a few days back already mentioned, when Donna Zuckerberg mentions white men, I doubt she counts her brother as being part of that group.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Is he though ? As an article here a few days back already mentioned, when Donna Zuckerberg mentions white men, I doubt she counts her brother as being part of that group."

    I am sure Mark Zuckerberg's Chinese wife and his Chinese in-laws see him as a Gweilo, which is Cantonese for White man. Mark Zuckerberg sure as hell would not be physically seen as a Person Of Color in China.
    , @Francis G.
    Jews are white when it's convenient/beneficial for them to be perceived as white. They are not when it's not.
    , @Frau Katze
    Daryush Valizadeh: that's an Iranian name. Are they counted as white, or a has group of Iranians wing nuts started lobbying for a separate race classification?
    , @Joe Walker
    I very much doubt that a Socialist Jewish Whiner like Donna Zuckerberg considers either herself or her brother to be white.
    , @Mack Bolan
    Yeah, some Jewish folks declared themselves not white sometime ago. This seems sort of a calculated move. I mean I gotta say that most of the Jews I know look as white as any Caucasian. It would seem they want be able to distance themselves from whites if it benefits them at same time they can blend with a crowd of racist skinheads if need be.
  6. “could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s

    I’m not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism’s stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline…she’s probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration…I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration…
     
    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Universities in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Calculus past for computation…

    Babies, bathwater...

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ. Somehow they think they can skip the in Christ part and everything will be hunky-dory. That's not Christianity's fault.

    , @Mr. Blank

    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant
     
    This. She'd hate the comparison, but she sounds EXACTLY like certain Bible-thumping fundamentalists I knew growing up in the South.

    Most mentally healthy people see shared interests as an opportunity to bond with people they might otherwise never have reason to talk to. But a certain sort of incredibly nasty, petty person looks at it and says: "Hey, there's a bunch of people I don't like enjoying something that I also enjoy. I should go over there and confiscate it from them, because they're probably enjoying it in ways I don't approve of."
    , @syonredux

    I’m not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism’s stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
     
    Hitler seems to have enjoyed mocking some of the more extreme examples of Nazi Nordicism:

    Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations
     
    , @Russel James
    "To destroy a people, you must first sever their roots." - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    From my experience, Classical culture, art, and symbology are the simultaneously inspirational and aspirational "missing link" that connects us to a past purposefully pressed into the shadows. Whether nefarious or efficient in nature, this severing of a connection post-WWII resulted in an engineered tabula rasa ripe for postmodern redesign--the consumerist "American Dream".

    As materialism is roundly rejected by the AR in favor of spiritualism, identity, and racial collectivism, we must rely upon the Classical thoughts, words, and deeds to act as a psychic and intellectual bridge to the past. Zuckerberg has clearly identified this as critical cultural infrastructure that must be made "a bridge too far".

    She's striking at our roots. And worse yet, imploring a professional society to join in and then salt the earth with something I can (from the article) only describe as Cultural Marxism.
    , @anon
    Good point, too many right wingers think we have to be a christian nation. Instead their are plenty of Pentecostals among Central Americans. This guy that was against Jews complain about Hart-Caller but has not Hart-Caller increase Catholics from Mexico and Pentecostals from Central America but the guy complain that Hart-Caller made us less of a christian nation but the biggest immigrant group Mexicans are Catholics. Also, the right in the US has been a lot on emotionalism. The alt-right has more self-taught folks than either the skinheads all emotion or regular conservatives which the only ancient history they basically know is the bible. In fact I'm seeing less of an intellectual movement on the left and more emotion for the rise of Gen M and the Bernie Sanders movement and more of a intellectualism with the alt-right.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Nazis did co-opt or promote antiquity to some extent. You can see in Hitler's plans for Welthauptstadt Germania, the future Reich capital, that his mundane pan-European design included neo-Classical elements.

    I think the issue, which Dr. Z conveniently ignores, is that virtually all scholarly disciplines were Nazified under the Nazis. Nazi Classics didn't exist because the Classics were important to Nazis, it existed because Nazis infiltrated and controlled academia.

    The other thing she ignores is the way Classics was a much larger part of European intellectual life in the 30s. (You can see from this Arion article, "Lycurgus in Leaflets and Lectures: The Weiße Rose and Classics at Munich University, 1941–45", that (a) there were Classicists opposed to Nazism and (b) they thought Classical themes were ubiquitous enough among the educated to be used against the Nazis.) What she's arguing for now isn't a defense of Classics against misuse but for continued control of Classics by an elite minority of scholars.
    , @HA
    "Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration…I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction."

    Given the fact that it is -- yet again -- the largely Catholic central European heartland (i.e., "Big, bad, Visegrad) that serves as the primary bulwark against Merkel's folly (not to mention "Zombie Catholicism" in countries like France doing their part) it *is* surprising that any sane individual would take an opinion like yours seriously.

    I mean, yeah, we get it. The Pope is in some ways more in line with the elites than with the flock he is supposed to be shepherding. And likewise, much of the rest of Christendom is swaying along with the latest trends and fads. That shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone who pretends to know anything about history. But really, anyone who is willing to rip out the very foundations of what made the West great any time the odds go against him was never worth saving.

  7. @Mr. Blank
    Shorter version: Whoops, we fucked up by pushing identity politics for everybody else while conspicuously excluding white men, and now white men are using our own tools against us. Now we have to stuff that toothpaste back in the tube by telling white guys that not only are they not allowed to talk about anybody else's culture and history, they're not allowed to talk about their own culture and history, either. We, the SJWs, own it all.

    While we're at it, we own the space program, too, you haters. Haven't you seen "Hidden Figures?" All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

    I assume they'll eventually get around to telling Sailer he's not allowed to use statistics, because Racism.

    This sure seems like a terrific recipe for social harmony.

    You know, just screw these people. I’ve just had it. I can’t play video games without being a racist, I can’t watch sports without being a racist, I can’t listen to music without being a racist. Fine, whatever.

    Now I can’t read Homer or Plato or Plutarch without being a racist. Always, everywhere, whatever I do, I’m somehow scheming to put blacks back in chains and women in the kitchen. No pleasure I can have escapes the stain of my distant ancestors.

    All accounts must be settled, all crooked roads must be made straight, all mountains and valleys must be leveled to achieve perfect justice. Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies. It’s an urge so strong it manifests itself even in people who don’t believe in God.

    I’m beginning to understand why wise gurus supposedly went to live on mountaintops, away from all human contact.

    Read More
    • Agree: CK, Connecticut Famer, Forbes
    • Replies: @jimbojones
    At the same time, you are only being blamed for your ancestors' sins, but not being praised for their achievements.

    Suppose white men are to blame for slavery etc etc. (They are not. Christians are the only ones who ever abolished slavery no a large scale.) Fine.

    Then white men are to be praised for inventing the entire modern world.

    , @Neil Templeton
    Maybe theocratic bullies, and I'm including climate change zealots in this class, lack humility and faith in a greater scheme. Maybe they feel exposed and vulnerable because they lack whatever it is in the brain that brings calm to individuals under stress. Whatever it is, I'd rather they kept it to themselves instead of obsessively worrying others with their plight.
    , @anon
    They're fighting a stealth war using culture - the end goal is as deadly as a regular war, just less noisy.
    , @Frau Katze
    Another problem is buying a novel and finding out the author is an SJW.

    For example, I ordered a book advertised as a mystery. It soon turned out the bad guy was against immigration and was portrayed as evil. The good guys were all helping Mexicans in.

    I didn't finish it and I'm more careful now. Still, the book description on Amazon didn't note the immigration angle. It can be hard to avoid. Mysteries set in the past are safer.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yep. I've moved past the argument stage with these people. I want a divorce. We simply have incompatible views of the world. No amount of discussion will solve that.

    Americans are stuck in a horrible marriage because we can't get out of the mortgage and move to separate homes, so we grumble through the days with the occasional full-on screaming match. It can't last. At some point, one side would rather burn the house down than spend another hour in this nightmare, especially if they feel as though they're going to lose the house anyway.
    , @Bill

    Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies.
     
    That's right. There will always be an established church. The only choice is which one.
  8. “A specter is haunting the Internet . . .”

    “. . . unholy alliance . . .”

    “. . . arc of the moral universe . . .”

    You’d think someone steeped in the classics could write an opening paragraph with fewer cliches and vapid nonsenses.

    What a sad article this is, really — so “fueled by a sense of entitlement dwarfed only by [her] inflated estimation of [her] own intelligence”, to borrow a misguided scholar’s own not-very-euphonious phrasing.

    Read More
    • Agree: Barnard
    • Replies: @Langley
    Regression towards the mean.
    , @Dr. X

    “A specter is haunting the Internet . . .”

    “. . . unholy alliance . . .”

    “. . . arc of the moral universe . . .”

    You’d think someone steeped in the classics could write an opening paragraph with fewer cliches and vapid nonsenses.
     
    The first of those two quotes are not from the classics, they are from Marx. Thus, Prof. Zuckerberg reveals herself to be not a true classicist, but a postmodern Jewish Marxist. Since I have spent a fair amount of time studying philosophy, I will attempt to school her in the error of her ways:

    The classical tradition in philosophy can be characterized by Man's acknowledgement of the limits imposed by Nature. In classical philosophy, Man himself is a product of this nature, which imposes limitations upon him that he can understand but not fully overcome. His task is to educate himself to understand nature, and work within the limits imposed by it. The task of human society, and political society, is to be able to delineate between the different natural abilities of individual humans, and use those differences for the benefit of the entire society.

    For instance, in Book I of Aristotle's Politics, Aristotle argued that all of Nature is hierarchical -- and this is true of individual humans, too. Aristotle lists a series of social relationships from highest to lowest, and each "level" by nature rules over its inferiors. At the top of the list is the human Male; next are females, then children, then slaves, and finally animals. Each of these "levels" of human society is based upon the ability to partake in reason and suppress emotion. Thus, Aristotle sees the male as most rational, the female less so, the child less than the female, the slave less than the child, and the animal less than the slave. Each layer of society is symbiotic, and society functions most harmoniously when the superior parts rule over the inferior parts. For Aristotle, "justice" is "equality among equals, and inequality among unequals."



    (Similarly, Plato describes a hierarchical list of types of political societies. First is his Ideal Republic ruled by the Guardian Class; then a military rule; then a business oligarchy; then a democracy; and finally, a dictatorship, which inevitably arises from too much democratic equality. Democracy, for Plato, is a perversion of nature).

    The culmination of classical philosophy is Christianity, which places true justice not in the hands of the political system, but in the hands of an Almighty God, who is the author of Nature itself and the Creator of these levels of distinction. The task of the Christian is to understand the defects of his nature, and to submit to the grace of the Almighty to remedy it in the hereafter.

    Now, Modern philosophy attacks the notion that man must accept the limits of his nature. Modern philosophy seeks to use science and technology to change and modify man's Natural environment so as to remove Nature's impediments. (In other words, Modernity seeks to create an artificial, not a natural, society).

    Democracy is a Modern artifact because men are not inherently equal. Feminism is a Modern artifact because males and females are inherently unequal. And racial egalitarianism is a Modern artifact because the races are inherently unequal. Democracy, feminism, and racial egalitarianism are all artificial. The Alt-right recognizes this; consequently, it looks to the classical tradition for guidance.

    Karl Marx is the ultimate Modern philosopher, because he believed that science, technology, and economic prosperity would ultimately lead to the abolition of all natural differences and distinctions, resulting in a global communist Utopia of complete equality. For Marx, Man's nature itself will evolve, and the Post-modern communist man will be a different species entirely from the Classical Man.

    Prof. Zuckerberg, the so-called "classicist," is really a Marxist who enjoys reading ancient literature, but obviously, she does not believe any of it.
    , @EdwardM
    These quotes make the article seem like satire (as I'm sure others among the 548[!!!] commentors have pointed out). This passage fits right in:

    Engage them on their assumed definitions of “foundation,” “Western,” “civilization,” and “culture.” Point out that such ideas are a slippery slope to white supremacy.
     
    Alas, she is serious.
  9. “A specter is haunting the Internet — the specter of the “alt-right.””

    hahaha

    “A SPECTER is haunting Eastern Europe: the specter of what in the West is called “dissent.””

    http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    The phrase originated as the famous opening line of Marx's Communist Manifesto.

    A specter is haunting Europe — the specter of Communism.
     
    Of course Marx was arguing that communism was the inevitable result of the progression of world herstory. Seems that Zuck's sis isn't that well-read a classicist, unless she intended the reference to be ironic.
    , @Laugh Track
    Great link. Great connection. Thanks.
    , @AKAHorace
    Well this is it. I am afraid that the game is up gentlemen. Without the support of the classical scholars our whole attempt to reshape western society is doomed. I am afraid that this must mean being sent to the library with a bottle of decent whiskey and your service revolver. You did your best, but you should probably finish yourselves off before they feed you to the lions or crucify you.
  10. The last line in the first quote is not from Dr. Z.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Yarbles
    Steve, I meant that you have a typo in your article...


    ...
    Is there any evidence that Bannon was using this rather vague term in the sense that Dr. Zuckerberg is using it?
     
    Is there any evidence that Bannon was using this rather vague term in the sense that Dr. Zuckerberg is using it?
     
  11. High priestess doin what they do. Lack of self-awareness is always astounding and entertaining. Affirmation and dismissal of VDH is particularly fun. But even while jealousy guarding her turf, she genuflects to her idols, the leftist talking points. Precious.

    Read More
  12. @German_reader
    "could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s"

    I'm not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism's stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline...she's probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it's not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration...I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration…

    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Universities in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Calculus past for computation…

    Babies, bathwater…

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ. Somehow they think they can skip the in Christ part and everything will be hunky-dory. That’s not Christianity’s fault.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ. Somehow they think they can skip the in Christ part and everything will be hunky-dory. That’s not Christianity’s fault.

     

    Yes, exactly. Zuckerberg and her SJW ilk tear down western culture, then try to reassemble bits of its rubble into the perpetual post-Christian Tower of Babel all cultural Marxists are trying to build. The fact that they have no clear plan or ultimate purpose for this utopian delusion seems to bother them not at all. It's the destruction and power they relish.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ.
     
    Thank God I’m not religious.
    , @melendwyr
    If I want a totalitarian ideology with limited connection to reality, I can do better than that.
  13. @Anon
    Funny that Alt Right is all about 'entitlement' when they are the most blacklisted and marginalized political movement in America.

    “Funny that Alt Right is all about ‘entitlement’ when they are the most blacklisted and marginalized political movement in America.”

    The mainstream media is more tolerant of Muslim terrorists, cop killers, and pedophile NAMBLA than they are of the Alt-Right.

    Remember when Rolling Stone tried to paint one of the Tsarnaev brothers as a rock star. Could you see Rolling Stone ever doing that to Richard Spencer?

    Read More
    • Replies: @NOTA
    Yes, if the cultural winds were blowing the right way, Rolling Stone would laud Spencer. Individuals have morals, but organizations and amorphous groups have internal politics and institutional incentives instead.
  14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidolon_%28apparition%29

    “In ancient Greek literature, an eidolon (plural: eidola or eidolons) (Greek εἴδωλον: “image, idol, double, apparition, phantom, ghost”) is a spirit-image of a living or dead person; a shade or phantom look-alike of the human form.”

    Interesting choice for a name.

    Read More
  15. Now I’m going to dig up my copies of Homer, Thucydides, and Marcus Aurelius.

    Read More
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    General Mattis, the much dreaded (by the left) SecDef nominee, always carried a copy of Marcus Aurelius's Meditations into battle, on his person. Doctor-Comissar Zuckerberg needs to propose a solution to this problem....
  16. I went to the “How to Be a Good Classicist Under a Bad Emperor” link, and there I found the Eidolon website, where Donna Zuckerberg writes:

    Today I’m excited to announce a new offering by the Eidolon editorial team: idle musings, a blog where we’ll share the strange, random, fun things we write. It will be informal and unscheduled. …

    Basically, Yung In Chae wrote a poem and we needed a place to put it.

    Yung In Chae is an Associate Editor of Eidolon and studies Classics at Cambridge.

    So, then I clicked on “a poem”, which took me to the poem that Yung In Chae wrote. Her poem’s idea is to rhyme “chair” and “fake hair” in order to mock Donald Trump. Here are some excerpts from the poem:

    Ode of a Classicist-Craftsman-Poet (Who Also Wants to Do a Trump Comparison)

    by Yung In Chae

    Dedicated to Donna Zuckerberg, Editor-in-Chief Extraordinaire

    Oh wonderful chair
    I of the clearly fake hair

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny

    I talked to Farage and he
    couldn’t agree with me more

    We’re at the White House’s door
    Until Nigel went back on his word
    Can’t stick to anything, little turd
    But he speaks his mind, unlike Paul Ryan
    Fearless leader? I told you he was lyin’

    Then all those bitter women joined in
    Like I’d touch her, she’s not even thin

    [....]

    It was a joke, albeit at women’s expense
    Think that’s wrong? Well, fuck you, Mike Pence

    [....]

    But my chair, darling chair! You are truly art
    Untaxable, even — that makes me smart

    [....]

    I’m a man’s man, that there’s no disputin’
    Manlier than my main man Vladimir Putin

    Once you see my wall, you’ll be calling me Hadrian
    I’d beat anyone in all the fucking Mediterranean

    [....]

    You’d be crowned best chair ever, it’d happen in a jiff
    if only the election weren’t rigged (sniff)

    I say this, chair: your majesty on Election Day we’ll see
    and great again shall America be.

    Fin

    https://eidolon.pub/introducing-idle-musings-bd9fb59494a2#.oonxgobs8

    https://medium.com/idle-musings/ode-of-a-classicist-craftsman-poet-who-also-wants-to-do-a-trump-comparison-30d327ceda95#.o870fav1h

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Yarbles

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny
     
    I know we whiteys are supposed to laugh at lines like these. But lately I've been getting the feeling that many of the people who write such things don't really care about justice or fairness or other noble sentiments. They just hate white people and want to see us "put in our place". And I think this feeling I have is spreading.
    , @Desiderius

    idle musings
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPBZjXroEzk

    The devil will find work for idle hands to do
    I stole and I lied, and why ?
    Because you asked me to !
    But now you make me feel so ashamed
    Because I've only got two hands
    Well, I'm still fond of you, oh-ho-oh


    So, what difference does it make ?
    Oh, what difference does it make ?
    Oh, it makes none
    But now you have gone
    And your prejudice won't keep you warm tonight
    , @Hugh
    Yung In Chae is guilty of cultural misappropriation. The Authorities should be informed.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Enoch Powell was a better classicist than either of these two non-contributing ideologues and poseurs will ever be.
    , @Clyde
    Yung In Chae
    Princeton University, Classics, Department Member
    I graduated from Princeton University in 2015 with an A.B. in Classics and certificates in Values and Public Life and Interdisciplinary Studies in the Humanities. I am currently pursuing a Master's in History and Civilizations at the École des hautes études en sciences sociales in Paris, writing a thesis on Simone de Beauvoir's classical education.
    Supervisors: Melissa Lane, Anthony Grafton, and Dinah Ribard
    ____________________________

    Yung In Chae works at Princeton University and you don't. Female by the way. She is gettin' paid! At least it seems so. What is a Department Member? Whatever it is she is gettin' paid. If you aren't gettin' paid for you cuckoo leftist/anti-Patrirachy writings then you just are not happening!
    Her folks got off the boat from Korea. Ran a small business and produced this useless, anti-white critter who (photo at website) is not much to look at.
    , @Anon
    Asians lack agency. They are such dogs. This may especially true of Koreans.

    China had Middle Kingdom mentality. A certain national pride.
    Japanese have had island domain mentality. Though part of Asia, also particular and independent of Asia.
    In contrast, Korea survived as a servile kingdom of China. Its mental habit is to suck up to the Great Power.

    Any surprise that Koreans became such fanatical Christians when the US, the great power, was a Christian nation?
    And since US is now a PC nation, these Koreans in America are turning into the biggest teacher's pets. It's not just this fool but the two Seoul Brothers, Jay and Alvin and other chipmunks.

    No agency. Also, fools like that aren't only anti-white. My guess is she is a globalist shill who will attack ANY nationalism, including her own. Smugly ensconced in the First World and selected by elite institutions, she glibly feels part of the Superior Elites and looks down all patriots all over the world. She has no independence of mind, no individuality. She wants to belong, to win approval. And in her world, she gets pats on her head like good little doggy when she writes drivel like that.

    Well, as crazy as PC is, at least we can give credit to Jews and whites for coming up with it. They at least have claim of originality. In contrast, this yellow pet is just a monkey-see-monkey-doer.

    Her poem... I mean it is so dime-a-dozen and by the numbers. Zzzzzzz.
  17. @The Last Real Calvinist
    "A specter is haunting the Internet . . ."

    ". . . unholy alliance . . ."

    ". . . arc of the moral universe . . ."

    You'd think someone steeped in the classics could write an opening paragraph with fewer cliches and vapid nonsenses.

    What a sad article this is, really -- so "fueled by a sense of entitlement dwarfed only by [her] inflated estimation of [her] own intelligence", to borrow a misguided scholar's own not-very-euphonious phrasing.

    Regression towards the mean.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Would you mind if I'd cross out "towards the mean" in your sentence?

    The word left then in your comment could be enough:

    Regression.
  18. Steve, your first link is broken. It should go here:

    https://eidolon.pub/how-to-be-a-good-classicist-under-a-bad-emperor-6b848df6e54a#.yzmtqirqt

    That’s a pretty silly essay. However, it makes me wonder, where does the Enlightenment fit in with the Alt-Right? Is it disliked because it eventually gave rise to post-modernism? I would think that Alt-Right would embrace it because it’s much closer in time, more connected with modern European states, and gave us fantastic things, e.g. science!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
    , @SFG
    They generally dislike it because it gave rise to universalism and thus modern liberalism. Of course they have no problems using science--which is really quite reasonable, you can use Einstein's equations to run a GPS without having to swallow all his liberal ideals, or use Newton's laws of motion and not believe in alchemy.
    , @Dark Night of the Sold
    "gave us fantastic things, e.g. science!"

    The reason some people reject the 'Enlightenment' is the ideologically-motivated ignorance it has perpetuated - even in the 21st C. Try reading some books on science in the 'Dark Ages'. The Enlightenment isn't the beginning of Western civilization, but it might be its end.
  19. Took Ms. Big Brains all of 2 paragraphs to break out the Adolfian “N”‘ word. Which means she doesn’t really have an argument beside….feelings. Child, please.

    Read More
    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Rod1963
    She went down this road because she had nothing but empty accusations to prop up her death cult ideology.

    Typical white liberal female.
  20. @neutral

    the most elite white man of his generation
     
    Is he though ? As an article here a few days back already mentioned, when Donna Zuckerberg mentions white men, I doubt she counts her brother as being part of that group.

    “Is he though ? As an article here a few days back already mentioned, when Donna Zuckerberg mentions white men, I doubt she counts her brother as being part of that group.”

    I am sure Mark Zuckerberg’s Chinese wife and his Chinese in-laws see him as a Gweilo, which is Cantonese for White man. Mark Zuckerberg sure as hell would not be physically seen as a Person Of Color in China.

    Read More
  21. Just goes to show you. When say, the sister of one of the most powerful, influential, and wealthy men in the world can’t celebrate his achievement and brag on just how awesome White people are; but instead has to go on a rant about how awful White men are, well it says it all.

    It says that women ARE really enemies, of most White men (even their brothers) if they are not involved in either their kids or Kawai stuff like Japanese women. IMHO that self-sorting into enemy status is due to a desire to compete against White men; social approval from non-White women; and resentment of the men in and around their life for being beta. Does his own sister really despise Mark Zuckerberg for being a beta male? Evidence says, yes.

    After all, if the woman in question really wanted to talk about the Alt-Right and the Classics, she might mention that the Roman and Hellenistic world ruled considerable amounts of non-Europeans; that Jewish monotheism and Greek Humanism combined to create classical Christianity. That Jesus himself is a semi-Socrates in his method of teaching. That the classical world moved fairly rapidly from polytheism to monotheism Christianity. In short, argue that yes the Classical World was in fact, quite awesome and White. But was open to things from other peoples.

    Instead, its just more denigrating White men. Her own brother did something pretty impressive, and she can’t even brag on him. Not a little. Or talk about how indeed White men are awesome. Its all about how awful we are.

    Conclusion: there is nothing women will not punish in men who are beta. Nothing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie
    LEFT-WING women, Whiskey!

    I sent this message to a conservative friend today:

    "I think the greatest threat to our country has been, is and will be liberal white women. If you think about it, you will realize they have supported and advanced every single policy, movement and individual that's been most destructive to our country. I don't understand it. The conservative women I know are salt of the earth, principled and strong. But something about liberalism appeals to the worst in the worst of women."
    , @Lurker

    It says that women ARE really enemies, of most White men (even their brothers)
     
    Donna is not white, Mark is not white. As well you know.
    , @AndrewR
    Do either of them even identify as white?

    Let alone placing their whiteness over their Judaicness.
  22. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The Classics are so far back in time that they can be and are used to justify all sorts of conflicting ideologies. Straussians, Victor Davis Hanson, Donald Kagan (classicist and father of Robert Kagan), etc., use them to justify neoconservatism. Others have used them throughout history and in contemporary times to justify liberalism, universalism, multiethnic empire, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.
    , @Steve Sailer
    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.
  23. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Why the Alt Right represents the Soul and Spirit of the West.

    Most of humanity through most of history stuck with the tried-and-true, conformed to status quo, adhered to dogma & orthodoxy. They hardly thought outside the box. They were emotionally and/or intellectually ill-equipped for revolutionary consciousness. They were weak of will or lacking in imagination.

    Therefore, much of the world failed to develop complex civilization, and even the ones who did build great civilizations, like the Persians, Hindus, and Chinese, came to be stalled in stasis or trapped in cycles of rises and falls.

    What was true of most of humanity was also true of most white people. Most white people prefer stasis, conformity, dogma, and/or herd mentality. In this, most white people are very much like rest of humanity. The power of Political Correctness is proof that most white people lack vision, individuality, the power of will, and independence of mind.
    Even so, more than other races, the white race has had a larger proportion of strong-willed visionaries who’ve dared to think new thoughts, question status quo, stand firmly on principle, defy orthodoxy, speak truth to power, and discover the truth.

    And it was because of such special individuals and visionary groups that the West made the leaps that eluded other races and cultures(except in imitation of the West).

    [MORE]

    Today, the reigning dogma, orthodoxy, and power of the West are controlled by the GLOB that seeks to cripple and control the White Race forever. This should be obvious to any brave, honest, and intelligent white soul, but tragically, most white people are like the rest of humanity and trapped in herd-mentality. They slavishly follow the narrative, bark like dogs for their globo masters, and can’t see or think outside the box devised by the Glob.

    However, members of the Alt Right are different. Though threatened with loss of status, wealth, and comfort, they stand firm on principles and possess the will to envision a future in which the white race is liberated from the chain of Globalists who would have every white pair of hands serve Jews and have every white womb hatch non-white babies.

    Alt Right has the honesty, courage, and the will to break free and see the truth, and it has the vision to forge a new path for the survival and victory for the white race.
    Also, Alt Right is different from mere conservatives who, lacking vision and creativity, stick with the tried-and-true or suck up to the Establishment in the Current Year. If the current elites say ‘gay marriage’ is the ‘new normal’, hapless Conservatives just go along. They too have a herd-mentality.
    And most Liberals are not rational free-thinkers. They are just shallow hive-minds who go with every new fad and fashion for lack of roots and vision for their race. The entirety of their culture is Pop Culture(junk food for the soul) and PC(poison for the mind).

    The Western spirit/soul has never been present in the majority of white folks who are like the rest of humanity in their conformism, herd-mentality, and lack of will & agency. The Western spirit/soul has always belonged to a small minority of white people who served as the vanguard as thinkers, warriors, explorers, scientists, artists, and traders.

    The power of PC has suppressed this soul/spirit among white people, even among the intelligent. It goes to show intelligence isn’t enough as even people of intelligence are generally lacking in will, courage, and vision. After all, China had many intelligent people through the ages, but its progress got stalled under thick layers of orthodoxy and stasis.

    No, there must be more than intelligence. There must be vision and will. It’s like a pile of wood isn’t enough to make fire. There must be a spark that ignites the wood. That soul/spirit is lacking among most races. It is lacking even among most whites. But there are more individuals with the spark among whites than among other races.

    And Alt Right now represents that spark that can set the world on fire. It has the will to strike the match over the Eurosphere Wood on which Jews piss on to prevent the White Fire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    I don't quite agree with you that most white people just follow the herd. Voting for Trump was a revolutionary act, and 60% of white voters acted. Previously, the top down selection of political candidates deprived them of an opportunity to vote for their own interests in primaries. The MSM suffocated the expression of their opinions, and the public schools shamed their children from daring to think freely about their condition.

    Trump is a classical hero in his willingness to stand up for what's right, regardless of the personal cost. Anti-white Leftism has been on the march through America's political, cultural, and commercial institutions for the past century. It has inexorably gained ground under both Republican and Democrat administrations. Can a Trump Administration turn back the tide? It remains to be seen, but for the first time there is hope, which might explain Michelle Obama's hopelessness.
  24. And I posted while listening to countryradio.cz. So Miss Z take your “thoughts” and shove it.

    Read More
  25. We do not support your myopic vision of “Western Civilization.”

    I wonder what Dr. Z’s non-myopic vision of “Western Civilization” looks like. A vision that supports her love-filled ideas no doubt.

    I also wonder what grade a student who leans alt-right and doesn’t keep it to him or her self can expect from Doctor-Commissar Z. I mean a student with those views cannot possibly understand the classics in the correct way, right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    I wonder too. I suspect her version of "Western Civilization" doesn't and can't really exist which is why she doesn't and can't elaborate what it is.

    "Seek better reasons for studying Classics."
     
    Such as?

    "In your scholarship, focus on the parts of antiquity that aren’t elite white men."
     
    Such as?

    Lysistrata? We only have her because she was invented by a white man.


    "Read and cite the work of scholars who write about race, gender, and class in the ancient world."
     
    Such as?

    I know these exist, Exhibit A: Dr. Zuckerberg, but there's not much for them to say, Exhibit A: Dr. Zuckerberg again.


    "Be open about the marginalization and bias that exists within our discipline."
     
    Such as the marginalization and bias that Dr. Zuckerberg is promoting?

    Dr. Zukerberg's whole spiel is parasitical. If dead white males didn't create the classics, there would be nothing for her to rage against.

  26. @German_reader
    "could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s"

    I'm not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism's stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline...she's probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it's not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration...I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant

    This. She’d hate the comparison, but she sounds EXACTLY like certain Bible-thumping fundamentalists I knew growing up in the South.

    Most mentally healthy people see shared interests as an opportunity to bond with people they might otherwise never have reason to talk to. But a certain sort of incredibly nasty, petty person looks at it and says: “Hey, there’s a bunch of people I don’t like enjoying something that I also enjoy. I should go over there and confiscate it from them, because they’re probably enjoying it in ways I don’t approve of.”

    Read More
    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Well, she does have a certain point though...someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn't have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn't much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of "progressive" causes.
  27. The next four years are going to be a very difficult time for many people.

    Oh, I do hope so.

    all other genders

    There’s a phrase.

    Read More
  28. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    How to Teach an Ancient Rape Joke

    Donna Zuckerberg
    5/26/15

    The first time I read Euripides’ Cyclops, I was a college senior, and I didn’t notice the rape joke. Maybe I was too wrapped up in graduate school applications to pay much attention; it’s probable that the rates of sexual assault on college campuses weren’t as well-known in 2006. Either way—and somewhat unfortunately—all I remember from that class is that another student kept trying to convince everyone that the cyclops is meant to represent a giant penis.

    This past semester, I was teaching a course comparing the versions of the Polyphemus myth in Homer, Euripides, and Theocritus, and in preparing, I revisited the text. Cyclops is a relatively unknown play by Euripides, one of the three great tragedians of classical Athens; it’s the sole remaining example of the Greek satyr play, a literary genre that has otherwise been lost. Satyr plays were written to follow a trilogy of tragedies, and always feature a group of satyrs inserted comedically into a myth where they don’t belong. In this case, it’s the episode from the Odyssey where Odysseus blinds the cyclops Polyphemus.

    In Homer’s version, Odysseus gives Polyphemus bowl after bowl of undiluted wine to get him so drunk that he’ll black out and leave himself vulnerable to injury. It’s not the most sophisticated plan, but it works (which is why expert schemer Cersei Lannister uses the same strategy to murder Robert Baratheon in Game of Thrones). In Euripides’ version, however, Odysseus stages a formal symposium for the cyclops. Polyphemus doesn’t end up drinking enough to pass out, because Silenus, the father of the satyrs, keeps stealing the wine from him. But he does get tipsy enough to find himself in an amorous mood, and eventually he drags an entirely unwilling Silenus offstage to have his way with him.

    The Cyclops, I realized, contains a scene of sexual assault played for laughs. A rape joke…

    Read rest here: http://jezebel.com/how-to-teach-an-ancient-rape-joke-1705749434

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    I read about half of Donna Zuckerberg's article in Jezebel, about 40% (going from the vertical cursor). She is very long-winded. Perhaps they pay by the word. I feel her pain. Women classicists there are, Jane Harrison comes to mind. There were a few women graduate students when I was in graduate school. Reading Homer in Greek will blow your mind. Other writings read in the original take your head to a far distant place. Or if you're into poetry, reading Sappho or Horace can get you very turned on if you're still into poetry. But you have to make an imaginative jump, because if you were back there, say in 5th-century BC Athens, you would be an a resident foreign metic at best, or a foreign slave-woman, or a foreign male slave being worked to death in the silver mines of Laurium. You take what you can get from whatever writings you choose to read and leave the rest.

    The smartest fellow-student of mine was Dorothea Wender, nee Schmidt. Get this: her parents were Plymouth Brethern handing out tracts on the street (unless she made that up), and she earned a living winning commerical jingle contests. She said she won a new Cadillac once that way and got $5000 out of selling it to a Cadillac dealership. I don't remember what her diss. was on. She didn't do much publishing-wise but I do remember something she got published where she was able to work in something about Susie Creamcheese. She had a tragic life, divorced with 2 daughters, teaching at Wheaton College in Norton, MA, she had a major stroke at a young age, but by dint of much effort, was able to re-assemble most of your mind.

    Back to Donna Zuckerberg's piece in Jezebel. I can only feel sorry for her that she took up Classics. In the ancient world, women were subservient, and there is precious little to write about from a feminist viewpoint. Much less to justify reading Classics to female students with a background in Diversity Studies (c). So she twists herself up in pretzels to establish a standing point. Highly politicized and polarized, she wants to prevent Alt-Right from classicizing the ancient texts. Unless she can transcend her existential reality she will never do useful work in her chosen field. This is an unhappy-making pickle to find oneself in. Randi and Arielle her sisters are doubtless doing something with their lives.
  29. @Anonymous
    The Classics are so far back in time that they can be and are used to justify all sorts of conflicting ideologies. Straussians, Victor Davis Hanson, Donald Kagan (classicist and father of Robert Kagan), etc., use them to justify neoconservatism. Others have used them throughout history and in contemporary times to justify liberalism, universalism, multiethnic empire, etc.

    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    That was the message to the uninitiated, those who look at the esoteric truth would see that the Kagans were really pro-Sparta, and see the US as a decadent Athens to be destroyed.

    So when a Kagan inflamed the tensions in Ukraine, she was really an Alcibiades that will turn traitor and defect to Sparta-Russia in the future.

    /sarcStrauss
  30. @Anonymous
    The Classics are so far back in time that they can be and are used to justify all sorts of conflicting ideologies. Straussians, Victor Davis Hanson, Donald Kagan (classicist and father of Robert Kagan), etc., use them to justify neoconservatism. Others have used them throughout history and in contemporary times to justify liberalism, universalism, multiethnic empire, etc.

    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    The devil can quote Scripture for his own purpose, as another dead white male wrote--in (((The Merchant of Venice))), of all places.
    , @Lot
    I can't remember off the top of my head, but there was another bloody and pointless war where Athens imposed democracy on some small island for no good reason.
    , @Rod1963
    The Kagans run the successor to PNAC, called FPI and are big promoters of U.S. intervention in Ukraine and demonizing Russia. They are very evil people and probably part of the deep state. Tillerson and Mattis if confirmed would do well to fire the Kagans from their positions along with their addlepatted followers that have infested the Pentagon and State.
  31. @Average Man
    Steve, your first link is broken. It should go here:

    https://eidolon.pub/how-to-be-a-good-classicist-under-a-bad-emperor-6b848df6e54a#.yzmtqirqt

    That's a pretty silly essay. However, it makes me wonder, where does the Enlightenment fit in with the Alt-Right? Is it disliked because it eventually gave rise to post-modernism? I would think that Alt-Right would embrace it because it's much closer in time, more connected with modern European states, and gave us fantastic things, e.g. science!

    Thanks.

    Read More
  32. We are just reappropriating our own culture, reconstructing it after her attempts at deconstruction. We are the phoenix rising from the ashes!

    In other words, we are Making White Culture Great Again.

    Read More
  33. “Of course, Dr. Donna Zuckerberg’s brother happens to be the most elite (((white man))) of his generation”

    FTFY

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Of course, Dr. Donna Zuckerberg’s brother happens to be the most elite (((white man))) of his generation”

    FTFY
     
    Does a name like "Zuckerberg" actually need the triple parentheses treatment?Seems a tad redundant to me....
  34. Lots of liberal hand-wringing these days is inspired by the experience of getting trolled on Twitter. If you’re used to only getting congratulated for voicing liberal shibboleths, it must be harrowing when the response is an immediate barrage of mockery instead.

    Journalists also vastly overrate the effect of the alt-right on Trump’s success because of this. They are great targets for trolls because they’re all on Twitter and they love to promote conventional wisdom. To the extent that the alt-right influenced the election, it may have been mostly by driving journalists into ever greater heights of hysteria in their Trump coverage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    It's that, plus they have Sore Spots. You can disagree with them all day on, for instance, the issues mainstream conservatives blah-blah about all day. But not on the Sore Spots.

    Trump is basically a centrist liberal, I always say, except on the most important issues. He's anti-Globalist, anti-PC, and anti-empire. The alt-right is on his side on all these issues. These are Sore Spots. SJWs would be out of work if people were allowed to entertain alternative ideas on any of them. (Or, they imagine, burned at the stake. But that's because they're projecting what they'd do with the whip hand.) So they notice when they Spots are poked.

    Because Who/Whom makes the world go round, Trump and the alt-right are on the Other Gang together, and are viewed as one. By implication people are led to believe there's actual intercourse between the two, or that Trump is staffing his administration with alt-righters, or something.

    But no. Trump is in the mainstream. To the right of the mainstream concerning the Sore Spots, but still mainstream overall. Still, a victory for Trump is a victory for the alt-right because who/whom. Ifsoever we are going to take over (retake?) the country, this is how it would start.

    , @Boomstick
    Even encountering contrary opinions on twitter or a comment section seems to be shocking to them. It doesn't even have to be trolling. In the case of Ms. Zuck merely asserting that Western Civilization is a Civilization and that her field is important to understanding it causes her to shriek and look under the bed for Literally Hitler. A few dozen guys with complicated haircuts have a rent-free bachelor pad condo in her head.

    One would think that scholars would leap at the chance to educate a public curious about their academic specialty. She's quite sure you shouldn't look into the classics because they're a foundation of Western Civilization but also not quite sure why they're relevant at all.
  35. @Mr. Blank
    Shorter version: Whoops, we fucked up by pushing identity politics for everybody else while conspicuously excluding white men, and now white men are using our own tools against us. Now we have to stuff that toothpaste back in the tube by telling white guys that not only are they not allowed to talk about anybody else's culture and history, they're not allowed to talk about their own culture and history, either. We, the SJWs, own it all.

    While we're at it, we own the space program, too, you haters. Haven't you seen "Hidden Figures?" All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

    I assume they'll eventually get around to telling Sailer he's not allowed to use statistics, because Racism.

    This sure seems like a terrific recipe for social harmony.

    I just watched last Sunday’s episode of Legends and Lies on Fox News. Did you know without the 88 blacks in the Rhode Island 1st Regiment, the Battle of Yorktown would have been lost? It was news to me. They also told us honorary non white Alexander Hamilton asked to lead them in the assult on Redoubt 10. To be fair, the previous installments were better than this one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Alexander Hamilton is an honorary non white at least in part because some people believe he was a real one, because he was born out of wedlock in the West Indies to a poor woman who worked for a rich man who was (or at least may have been) Alexander's father. Some people don't realize or can't accept that such a society has poor white people, the example of our own South notwithstanding.
  36. Seems that even some people on the Left find Donna Zuckerberg’s notions a tad extreme:

    But then Zuckerberg tries to stake out a different claim for the Classics, mainly that they should be decoupled from Western civilization and that the foundations on which the West was formed should be undone in service of modern political concerns about race, class, and gender. She proposes an action plan for Classicists that would see them actively reject those who wish to understand Western civilization through the story of Greece and Rome:

    “​When you hear someone —be they a student, a colleague, or an amateur — say that they are interested in Classics because of “the Greek miracle” or because Classics is “the foundation of Western civilization and culture,” challenge that viewpoint respectfully but forcefully. Engage them on their assumed definitions of “foundation,” “Western,” “civilization,” and “culture.” Point out that such ideas are a slippery slope to white supremacy. Seek better reasons for studying Classics.”

    ​She added that Classicists should avoid research into “elite white men” and privilege research into race, class, and gender issues over those of politics, international relations, or military history. To that end, she is starting a project to document alt-right use of the Classics and is publishing a book next year called Not All Dead White Men to explore diversity in the Classics.

    Here is where her argument rubs me the wrong way. I think that in her right and righteous zeal to ensure that the Classics do not become the handmaiden of hate, as the Nazis happily used Tacitus’ Germania, Zuckerberg has let the pendulum swing too far in the direction of denying what the Classics actually are. Greece and Rome are the foundation of Western civilization, whether one likes that fact or not, and whether one supports that legacy or wishes to change it. Our political institutions, religious institutions, language, science, history, and culture are an outgrowth of the structures that built, sustained, and destroyed Rome. It is not much of a stretch to see the formational period of modern Western civilization in the Middle Ages as an argument between those who looked back to Rome and those who wanted to transform that inherited legacy into something new. Every European monarch for a thousand years aped the style of the Roman emperors, and less than 100 years ago there were still two monarchs in Europe—the Czar of Russia and the Austrian Kaiser—who traced not just their Caesarian titles but their imperial authority back to Rome, the Czar in what was allegedly a transmission of Eastern Roman authority to the Third Rome in Moscow, and the Kaiser through inheriting the power and glory of the defunct Holy Roman Empire in a transmission of the last vestiges of Roman glory. The Founders of the United States explicitly cited Roman precedent in establishing the Constitution, and when Napoleon promulgated his famous legal code, the basis for modern European jurisprudence, it took its form and inspiration from Justinian’s codification of Roman law.

    It does not diminish the struggles of race, class, or gender to recognize the debt that the West owes to the elites who reigned in Greece and Rome, nor to acknowledge that not everyone wants to devote his or her life to social justice issues. Some people are genuinely interested in issues of power and privilege, of military campaigns and political disputes. These should not be delegitimized in a rush to man the barricades against rightwing extremists. Indeed, it plays right into their hands.

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/a-question-of-purpose-what-do-the-classics-mean-in-todays-political-climate

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Notice the presence of facts in your rebuttal. Now go back and compare the original screed.

    In all those endless paragraphs, not one reference to an actual, you know, Classic. Is is she trying to no platform the very subjects of her putative study?

    , @Desiderius

    even some people on the Left
     
    We got bigger fish to fry presently than the Left:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/why-are-the-media-taking-the-cias-hacking-claims-at-face-value/
    , @Hibernian
    Maybe she went into the classics to destroy them, similarly to the way Constitution hating leftists go to Harvard Law to destroy the Constitution. They're successful because they have high IQs and a sense of mission. If they don't get on SCOTUS and/or reach the highest ranks in the professoriate, they still have great financial rewards, which is not generally the case with a classicist. Maybe some day Ms. Zuckerberg will wish she'd become a lawyer. Of course she's got a rich brother.
    , @Hibernian
    No prizes for guessing whether Mr, Colavito or Ms. Zuckerberg gets more traction among today's leftists.
    , @Anonymous


    It does not diminish the struggles of race, class, or gender to recognize the debt that the West owes to the elites who reigned in Greece and Rome, nor to acknowledge that not everyone wants to devote his or her life to social justice issues. Some people are genuinely interested in issues of power and privilege, of military campaigns and political disputes. These should not be delegitimized in a rush to man the barricades against rightwing extremists. Indeed, it plays right into their hands.
     

     


    Christopher Bataluk ‏@ChrisBataluk

    @DouthatNYT @eidolon_journal Classics minus the cultural advances,military history, philosophy and great men is a sociology of dead peasants

     

  37. @Mike Sylwester
    I went to the "How to Be a Good Classicist Under a Bad Emperor" link, and there I found the Eidolon website, where Donna Zuckerberg writes:

    Today I’m excited to announce a new offering by the Eidolon editorial team: idle musings, a blog where we’ll share the strange, random, fun things we write. It will be informal and unscheduled. ...

    Basically, Yung In Chae wrote a poem and we needed a place to put it.
     

    Yung In Chae is an Associate Editor of Eidolon and studies Classics at Cambridge.

    So, then I clicked on "a poem", which took me to the poem that Yung In Chae wrote. Her poem's idea is to rhyme “chair” and “fake hair” in order to mock Donald Trump. Here are some excerpts from the poem:


    Ode of a Classicist-Craftsman-Poet (Who Also Wants to Do a Trump Comparison)

    by Yung In Chae

    Dedicated to Donna Zuckerberg, Editor-in-Chief Extraordinaire

    Oh wonderful chair
    I of the clearly fake hair

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny

    I talked to Farage and he
    couldn’t agree with me more

    We’re at the White House’s door
    Until Nigel went back on his word
    Can’t stick to anything, little turd
    But he speaks his mind, unlike Paul Ryan
    Fearless leader? I told you he was lyin’

    Then all those bitter women joined in
    Like I’d touch her, she’s not even thin

    [....]

    It was a joke, albeit at women’s expense
    Think that’s wrong? Well, fuck you, Mike Pence

    [....]

    But my chair, darling chair! You are truly art
    Untaxable, even — that makes me smart

    [....]

    I’m a man’s man, that there’s no disputin’
    Manlier than my main man Vladimir Putin

    Once you see my wall, you’ll be calling me Hadrian
    I’d beat anyone in all the fucking Mediterranean

    [....]

    You’d be crowned best chair ever, it’d happen in a jiff
    if only the election weren’t rigged (sniff)

    I say this, chair: your majesty on Election Day we’ll see
    and great again shall America be.

    Fin
     

    https://eidolon.pub/introducing-idle-musings-bd9fb59494a2#.oonxgobs8

    https://medium.com/idle-musings/ode-of-a-classicist-craftsman-poet-who-also-wants-to-do-a-trump-comparison-30d327ceda95#.o870fav1h

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny

    I know we whiteys are supposed to laugh at lines like these. But lately I’ve been getting the feeling that many of the people who write such things don’t really care about justice or fairness or other noble sentiments. They just hate white people and want to see us “put in our place”. And I think this feeling I have is spreading.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    It's jealousy.

    White privilege is genetic and it's not "supremacy" it's simply the ability to create nicer places to live - on our own - without them.
    , @ic1000
    > But lately I’ve been getting the feeling that many of the people who write such things [clumsy leftish doggerel] don’t really care about justice or fairness or other noble sentiments. They just hate white people and want to see us “put in our place”.

    The celebrated Ta Nehesi Coates' celebrated Between The World And Me speaks to your thesis.

    In the final three pages, Coates assumes the voice of an Old Testament prophet. He calls down a curse upon white people, for the stain of their bloodlines and their ongoing sinfulness: enslavement, the Middle Passage, redlining, escalator etiquette. Although heretofore unmentioned, Coates adds one count of Global Warming to the indictment -- if catnip is at hand, might as well sprinkle it atop that dish best served cold.
  38. There’s a lot of projection going on in this article. In my experience, it’s that the multicultural left that’s “fueled by a sense of entitlement” and has “an inflated estimation of their own intelligence.”

    Read More
  39. the “communist 1%”:

    “LET US now imagine that one day something in our greengrocer snaps and he stops putting up the slogans merely to ingratiate himself. He stops voting in elections he knows are a farce. He begins to say what he really thinks at political meetings. And he even finds the strength in himself to express solidarity with those whom his conscience commands him to support. In this revolt the greengrocer steps out of living within the lie. He rejects the ritual and breaks the rules of the game. He discovers once more his suppressed identity and dignity. He gives his freedom a concrete significance. His revolt is an attempt to live within the truth.

    The bill is not long in coming. He will be relieved of his post as manager of the shop and transferred to the warehouse. His pay will be reduced. His hopes for a holiday in Bulgaria will evaporate. His children’s access to higher education will be threatened. His superiors will harass him and his fellow workers will wonder about him. Most of those who apply these sanctions, however, will not do so from any authentic inner conviction but simply under pressure from conditions, the same conditions that once pressured the greengrocer to display the official slogans. They will persecute the greengrocer either because it is expected of them, or to demonstrate their loyalty, or simply as part of the general panorama, to which belongs an awareness that this is how situations of this sort are dealt with, that this, in fact, is how things are always done, particularly if one is not to become suspect oneself. The executors, therefore, behave essentially like everyone else, to a greater or lesser degree: as components of the post-totalitarian system, as agents of its automatism, as petty instruments of the social auto-totality.””

    http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML

    Hi Brendan Eich

    Read More
  40. One of the articles in the Eidolon website is titled “Giving It Up in the Classroom: Feminist Classics and the Burden of Authority” and is written by Lisl Walsh, who is identified as “an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies. Yoga enthusiast and instructor. Feminist. Uncertified neologician and portmantologist”.

    Walsh’s article begins:

    A couple years ago, I was in my first few years in a tenure-track position at a small, private liberal arts institution in the Midwest, and I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ….

    … the students’ assumption of me by the end of the semester, despite any learning they had accomplished along the way, was that I was a do-nothing, know-nothing instructor. And they did not shrink from telling me as much.

    At some point, Walsh decided that her problem was that she had “a non-authoritative body” while her students were “a bunch of authoritarians”. She decided to assign her “bunch of authoritarians” to themselves design her course’s syllabus.

    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ….

    In changing my approach to the classroom, I accepted that, given the body I currently inhabit, students would likely never automatically grant me their trust in my knowledge, experience, authority, etc. up to the level that they “expect” a Professor should have (‘automatic’ is important here: the point is that students don’t realize how much of their perception of authoritativeness is rooted in their willingness to grant an amount of it in the first place).

    But I also accepted that my clutching at the traditional signifiers of authoritativeness — insisting that students not call me by my first name (which I never actually employed, but I know those who do), making sure to mention in class that I had a Ph.D. (some students assumed I did not), dressing more “professionally,” wearing makeup, etc. — might ratchet up students’ impressions of me, but would ultimately never get students to assume that I was worthy of the same amount of automatic respect they would grant to a white masculine body up in front of the room. ….

    So I deal with this … crisis of authority by using 4 principles I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory:

    1) decentering authority away from the instructor;

    2) empowering students as producers of knowledge;

    3) modeling a democratic/consent-based classroom; and

    4) empowering students as monitors of their peers’ work.

    In every class where I’ve employed these strategies, the evaluations have been more constructive and compassionate, and students have stopped questioning my competence in the field. ….

    I understand that it is impossible to remove the power structures within the classroom, and my decision to recruit the students in structuring their own learning is still an exercise of my power — a power that stems in part from my perceived whiteness, my relative age, and my occupation of space in the room. I try to be transparent about this power dynamic with my students.

    I decided to have the students (help) design their syllabus. The first time I tried this tactic for a traditional Roman history course, I didn’t hand over the reins completely: I had a few learning goals I wanted to keep. Students would need to “know” at least a framework of the dominant narrative of Roman history so that they could use that knowledge to analyze Roman cultural values (or take more specified courses in the future), to familiarize themselves with a variety of primary sources in translation, and, most importantly, to use Roman history to “de-naturalize” their perceptions of the things they consider normal. But as far as other learning goals and assessments went, I left that up to the students. ….

    In decentralizing authority, I have learned also to share the work of the course and be honest about my limits. For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester
    Lisl Walsh, an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies, continues to explain to her Eidolon readers how she is dealing with her problem of having "a non-authoritative body" while her students are "a bunch of authoritarians".

    The third principle [that I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory] is a democratic/consent-based classroom: in general, I try to implement this by taking a lot of votes, asking for consent, and creating elements of choice that engage student agency and investment. .... I try to have them negotiate with me exam dates, project due dates, appropriate paper length requirements, and/or exam questions. ....

    Knowing how to make good use of the instructor is helpful in this regard: an openness about my strengths and weaknesses as an instructor, the fact that I have experience with the subject, that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.

    In Roman Civilization, for example, the students explicitly gave me permission to give pop quizzes on the readings whenever I wanted, and as often as I wanted, in order to keep them motivated to keep doing their homework. They might (like the Augustan senate) decide unanimously that they want no part in designing the content for the course and they want you to make all the decisions and be in control of assessing them — but at least in this they have given their consent to hand over authority to the instructor and acknowledged the instructor’s expertise. ....

    I am aware that some of these ideas might seem radical, but I have found them useful for fixing a very specific problem of the postmodern Classics classroom dynamic, and a problem that is perhaps more obstructive for particular physical manifestations of the Classicist professor — female, young (or old!), non-White, non-normatively gendered, not-normatively able-bodied, not a native speaker of English, in a contingent faculty position, graduate student, etc. — where claims to authority are perhaps more contested and questioned ....

    ... I still see some added benefits to incorporating these principles into your classroom: ....

    [....]

    2. Students are practicing precisely the de-naturalizing of norms you might want them to be doing with the course content. By which I mean: if your course uses antiquity in part in order to help students be more aware about the issues in their contemporary world, some of those issues might be power, authority, and privilege. Having students “unpack” or even reorient their assumptions about power in educational environments helps them see more clearly the construction and upholding of these power dynamics.

    [....]

    6. Finally, you have the opportunity to destabilize for your students the very system that is perhaps keeping your less-privileged colleagues from being granted the automatic respect of those same students. You, as the privileged, have more freedom to “train” students to see authority differently.

    [....]

    Gaining your students’ respect by drastically reducing the authority you have over their educational experience may seem paradoxical, but it has worked for me, at least for now (I anticipate as I age, or as my body changes, there will likely be different assumptions made about me) ....
     
    https://eidolon.pub/giving-it-up-in-the-classroom-14c1afcfd69#.95wvserwj
    , @Anon
    All this is rationalization, which is one of the psychological defense mechanisms. She's trying to rationalize away the fact that she's a lousy teacher. She needs a shrink, not some hapless students just trying to get an education. I expect she'd be an okay kindergarten teacher. Little kids do fine with hippie teachers.
    , @anonymous
    I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ….

    Had a prof like her, and like her, after the shit evaluations came through, her excuses bled through her pedagogy.


    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ….

    That body thing again. What's up with that? Body lives matter? Paging Mr. Coates.

    “expect” .... “know”

    When they put mundane words in ironic parenthetics, you know they're hopeless.

    For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

    Fucking lazy is what your are, like half the associate profs on any campus. Overwhelmed with what? Having to grade two assignments the whole semester? High school English teachers do that and much more in less than a month.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    IOW, tl;dr version: "Because I have poor self-esteem and am terrified of my career being derailed by insufficiently positive student reviews, I made my class an easy-A to win their favor".
    , @Mike Sylwester

    A couple years ago, I was in my first few years in a tenure-track position at a small, private liberal arts institution in the Midwest, and I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ….

    … the students’ assumption of me by the end of the semester, despite any learning they had accomplished along the way, was that I was a do-nothing, know-nothing instructor. And they did not shrink from telling me as much.
     
    For sure, Lisl Walsh got this rare job teaching Classics because she is female.

    Therefore, some male Classics scholar did not get the job.
    , @SFG
    You all laugh, but the overproduction of Ph.Ds means they are all on extremely thin ice, dependent on student reviews, and need to curry favor with students. This one was simply more clever than most in spinning excuses about the means of survival in the modern university.

    If they weren't responsible for the decline of the West, some pity would be in order. As it is I'm reminded of C.S. Lewis' remarks about Satan eating his own servants.
    , @Anon
    From Rate My Professors about Lisl Walsh: "She found an uncommon way of relating many classical myths to 80's movies with Sylvester Stallone."

    Good God. What an airheaded chick. At least we know what type of guy this dumbass man-addled 'professor' wants to have sex with. If any of my profs had wasted my money yammering on about Sylvester Stallone in Classics I would have told the administration to fire her.

    , @Mr. Anon
    So she dealt with being a bad teacher by foisting her duties off on her students, thereby becoming both a bad and a lazy teacher. And she sacrificed any standards she might have had, in order to dole out A's and get favorable reviews.

    Why would anyone care what this slacker had to say about Rome? One would be better served by just reading Mommsen or Gibbon. A lot - perhaps most - of modern academia is a completely no-value-added proposition.
  41. Remember this Ezra Pound chestnut:

    The thought of what America would be like
    If the Classics had a wide circulation . . .
    Oh well!
    It troubles my sleep.

    And these two phrases really demonstrate a devotion to classics:  “crossing the Rubicon,” “ascending to Olympus.” That’s like the mile-high club, amirite?

    Speaking of which, where does she get off referring to her field as “classic.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @black sea
    Her claim that there are in America "a few hundred thousand men" -- of any political persuasion -- who "love the classics" seems to me more than a little questionable.
  42. @German_reader
    "could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s"

    I'm not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism's stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline...she's probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it's not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration...I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    I’m not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism’s stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.

    Hitler seems to have enjoyed mocking some of the more extreme examples of Nazi Nordicism:

    Why do we call the whole world’s attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn’t enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Yes, Hitler didn't really hold the ancient Germanic peoples in high regard whereas he was obsessed with Greco-Roman antiquity (in a Nordicised version, somewhat like Afrocentrists lay claim to ancient Egypt), and Sparta with its subjugation of the helots definitely figured as an example for what was intended after the conquest of Lebensraum. But I'm not sure if it isn't an exgaggeration to claim that classics held the highest position in humanities under Nazism.
  43. I’ve a controversial idea, on top of another one, of course.

    Whereas the Zionists revived Hebrew as a language for their nation, we could revive Latin as the language for Our Fair Republic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Karl
    > Whereas the Zionists revived Hebrew as a language for their nation, we could revive Latin as the language for Our Fair Republic

    hey.... stop stealing an idea i've been trying to push for 3 years!

    what's the MOST LIKELY place where you could actually pull off - and a few hundred bucks as a pushstart) to start a Latin-only kindergarden (which is what it would take)?

    A hilltop in Samaria.

    Talk to the guys at the Shomron Regional Council. They are QUITE SYMPATHETIC to Euro Nativist nationalism.

    U.Kentucky has a number of guys who can actually speak the language.

    We'll give them an open-ended visa, if they bring us some hot bluegrass picking once or twice a year.

    Deal?
    , @syonredux

    I’ve a controversial idea, on top of another one, of course.

    Whereas the Zionists revived Hebrew as a language for their nation, we could revive Latin as the language for Our Fair Republic.
     
    That notion makes my Anglo soul recoil in disgust.
    , @SFG
    I guess you could try that if you were founding it in Europe, but here in the USA everyone speaks English already. And the Europeans all have their own languages they're fond of.
    , @Hibernian
    Dominus vobiscum.

    Et cum spiritu tuo.
  44. @Mr. Blank
    Shorter version: Whoops, we fucked up by pushing identity politics for everybody else while conspicuously excluding white men, and now white men are using our own tools against us. Now we have to stuff that toothpaste back in the tube by telling white guys that not only are they not allowed to talk about anybody else's culture and history, they're not allowed to talk about their own culture and history, either. We, the SJWs, own it all.

    While we're at it, we own the space program, too, you haters. Haven't you seen "Hidden Figures?" All Your Base Are Belong To Us.

    I assume they'll eventually get around to telling Sailer he's not allowed to use statistics, because Racism.

    This sure seems like a terrific recipe for social harmony.

    They’re not going to win–the stuff’s in the public domain and, thanks, at least in part, to (((James Loeb))), there are cheap classics editions all over the place.

    There’ll be Plutarch and Homer way past when the last SJW passes away. If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax

    If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.
     
    My impression is that the Chinese just aren't very interested in Western high culture. It's understandable they don't care about the writings of dead white males; it's not like we're interested in dead Chinese males except Sun Tzu as a low-middlebrow self-help book that comes and goes.

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way. Like, in an anime, kawaii William Shakespeare will show up and do something silly. Or all the characters will be named after ones from The Three Musketeers.
  45. He first read the Aeneid while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Aeneas’s quest and his desire to build a city that, he said, quoting the text in English, “knows no boundaries in time and greatness.” Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. (Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg, who served as Facebook’s president when the company was incorporated, said, “There’s a part of him that—it was present even when he was twenty, twenty-one—this kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odysseys and all that stuff.”) At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Aeneid.

    On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of particular verses. Later that night, he IM’d to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the Latin and then the English: “fortune favors the bold” and “a nation/empire without bound.”

    “Daughter, dismiss thy fears; to thy desire
    The fates of thine are fix’d, and stand entire.
    Thou shalt behold thy wish’d Lavinian walls;
    And, ripe for heav’n, when fate Aeneas calls,
    Then shalt thou bear him up, sublime, to me:
    No councils have revers’d my firm decree.
    And, lest new fears disturb thy happy state,
    Know, I have search’d the mystic rolls of Fate:
    Thy son (nor is th’ appointed season far)
    In Italy shall wage successful war,
    Shall tame fierce nations in the bloody field,
    And sov’reign laws impose, and cities build,
    Till, after ev’ry foe subdued, the sun
    Thrice thro’ the signs his annual race shall run:
    This is his time prefix’d. Ascanius then,
    Now call’d Iulus, shall begin his reign.
    He thirty rolling years the crown shall wear,
    Then from Lavinium shall the seat transfer,
    And, with hard labor, Alba Longa build.
    The throne with his succession shall be fill’d
    Three hundred circuits more: then shall be seen
    Ilia the fair, a priestess and a queen,
    Who, full of Mars, in time, with kindly throes,
    Shall at a birth two goodly boys disclose.
    The royal babes a tawny wolf shall drain:
    Then Romulus his grandsire’s throne shall gain,
    Of martial tow’rs the founder shall become,
    The people Romans call, the city Rome.
    To them no bounds of empire I assign,
    Nor term of years to their immortal line.

    Ev’n haughty Juno, who, with endless broils,
    Earth, seas, and heav’n, and Jove himself turmoils;
    At length aton’d, her friendly pow’r shall join,
    To cherish and advance the Trojan line.
    The subject world shall Rome’s dominion own,
    And, prostrate, shall adore the nation of the gown.
    An age is ripening in revolving fate
    When Troy shall overturn the Grecian state,
    And sweet revenge her conqu’ring sons shall call,
    To crush the people that conspir’d her fall.
    Then Caesar from the Julian stock shall rise,
    Whose empire ocean, and whose fame the skies
    Alone shall bound; whom, fraught with eastern spoils,
    Our heav’n, the just reward of human toils,
    Securely shall repay with rites divine;
    And incense shall ascend before his sacred shrine.
    Then dire debate and impious war shall cease,
    And the stern age be soften’d into peace:
    Then banish’d Faith shall once again return,
    And Vestal fires in hallow’d temples burn;
    And Remus with Quirinus shall sustain
    The righteous laws, and fraud and force restrain.
    Janus himself before his fane shall wait,
    And keep the dreadful issues of his gate,
    With bolts and iron bars: within remains
    Imprison’d Fury, bound in brazen chains;
    High on a trophy rais’d, of useless arms,
    He sits, and threats the world with vain alarms.”

    Aeneid, Dryden’s translation

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Didn't quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don't count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.
    , @syonredux
    Taylor's translation (1907)

    To these no period nor appointed date,
    Nor bounds to their dominion I assign;
    An endless empire shall the race await.
    Nay, Juno, too, who now, in mood malign,
    Earth, sea and sky is harrying, shall incline
    To better counsels, and unite with me
    To cherish and uphold the imperial line,
    The Romans, rulers of the land and sea,
    Lords of the flowing gown. So standeth my decree.
     
    , @German_reader
    It's kind of telling that Mark Zuckerberg especially liked the parts of the Aeneis that are imperial propaganda (which many other readers would regard as diminishing the artistic value of the poem). Certainly a very intelligent guy, but quite a flawed character imo.
    , @Alfa158
    "Fortuna audentes iuvat", Fortune favors the bold. I have been reluctant to use that one since I finally read The Aenid. In the poem it was uttered by Turnus, as he led the Italian coalition into battle against the Trojans. He lost the battle and was only saved from immediate death by being ignominiously tricked into deserting the fight by Juno who wanted to save his life. Aeneas eventually caught up with him anyway and hacked him up.
    in Zuck's case Fortune shows that who she really favors are the bold, immoral and ruthless.
    , @Ivy
    Evening activities may have been somewhat non-standard chez Zuckerberg. Perhaps Mark and sis donned togas or similar attire when acting out their favorite scenes from mythology or classic literature. Now my head hurts from the visual.
  46. If Blacks wuz kangs…

    …then Jews wuz Greeks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    If Blacks wuz kangs…

    …then Jews wuz Greeks.
     
    Well, there is this bit from 1 Maccabees

    20 'Areios king of the Spartans, to Onias the high priest, greetings.

    21 'It has been discovered in records regarding the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers, and of the race of Abraham.

    22 Now that this has come to our knowledge, we shall be obliged if you will send us news of your welfare.

    23 Our own message to you is this: your flocks and your possessions are ours, and ours are yours, and we are instructing our envoys to give you a message to this effect.'
     
    (12:20-23)
  47. @Mr. Blank
    You know, just screw these people. I've just had it. I can't play video games without being a racist, I can't watch sports without being a racist, I can't listen to music without being a racist. Fine, whatever.

    Now I can't read Homer or Plato or Plutarch without being a racist. Always, everywhere, whatever I do, I'm somehow scheming to put blacks back in chains and women in the kitchen. No pleasure I can have escapes the stain of my distant ancestors.

    All accounts must be settled, all crooked roads must be made straight, all mountains and valleys must be leveled to achieve perfect justice. Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies. It's an urge so strong it manifests itself even in people who don't believe in God.

    I'm beginning to understand why wise gurus supposedly went to live on mountaintops, away from all human contact.

    At the same time, you are only being blamed for your ancestors’ sins, but not being praised for their achievements.

    Suppose white men are to blame for slavery etc etc. (They are not. Christians are the only ones who ever abolished slavery no a large scale.) Fine.

    Then white men are to be praised for inventing the entire modern world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TheJester
    Yes, Western Europeans created the modern world ... the social, moral, religious, political, judicial, technical, medical, and economic bases for society. It created science and the concept of the nation state. It pressed the Christian concept of equality under God and the law, outlawed slavery, elevated the status of women, and introduced democracy to the world. It split the atom and took humankind to the moon while the rest of the world herded goats and continued to live in primitive family, clan, and tribal associations.

    How do I know this? Because I've studied history and the classics and see the footprint of Western Civilization everywhere I look in the world.

    At their most confident, Western Europeans colonized the rest of the world, providing it a patina of modernity and westernization. Then, in the name of equality, they invited the colonized to come and live with them as brothers and sisters. Immigration to the West started as a drip, then it became a flood, and it ended as a tsunami. Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America displaced their populations and cultures to the Western nation states, eventually making the Western Europeans political and cultural minorities in their own countries -- a redux of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.

    If one does not have a Western European background, however, there is a tendency to feel bad about oneself. In the extreme, this creates a feeling of self-hate for not being white and European ... or, for the feminists (also a European invention) being white, European, and male. You are wracked with cognitive dissonance. You hate white males and Western Civilization as you ironically try everything you can to become part of what they created. To salvage your self-esteem, you retcon history to press the illusion that the West expropriated your history, your science, and your technology. Indeed, as the ultimate projection, the white man is a vile thief who stole your civilization and now makes you feel bad about yourself. Reparations are due, as you demand that the white man "cash out" the fruits of the only civilization on planet earth that has anything worth "cashing out" and award them to you in the name of justice. You demand affirmative action to replace the white man within his institutions one person at a time in the name of equality. As borders fold and immigration becomes a torrent, numbers favor this. This is democracy, your know!

    My take: Let them bask in their illusions and projections as the "right" tries to salvage what is left of Western Civilization. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy the Greek and Roman classics even as the modern world is shaken to the core under the lastest barbarian attacks. We've been there before. There will be another Renaissance ... and I know what they will be studying.

  48. @syonredux

    I’m not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism’s stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
     
    Hitler seems to have enjoyed mocking some of the more extreme examples of Nazi Nordicism:

    Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts and enthusing over every potsherd and stone axe he finds. All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler makes a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations
     

    Yes, Hitler didn’t really hold the ancient Germanic peoples in high regard whereas he was obsessed with Greco-Roman antiquity (in a Nordicised version, somewhat like Afrocentrists lay claim to ancient Egypt), and Sparta with its subjugation of the helots definitely figured as an example for what was intended after the conquest of Lebensraum. But I’m not sure if it isn’t an exgaggeration to claim that classics held the highest position in humanities under Nazism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Yes, Hitler didn’t really hold the ancient Germanic peoples in high regard whereas he was obsessed with Greco-Roman antiquity (in a Nordicised version, "

    So Adolf Hitler was the first person to spread the false rumor that Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome were majority blond societies. This false rumor spread like a wildfire in the White Nationalist community. And now White Nationalists believe the average Ancient Greek and average Ancient Roman was as blond as the first German terrorist that John McClane kills in Die Hard.
    https://youtu.be/Pz_URtSSPgw

    , @Jaakko Raipala
    Well, Greco-Roman classics are one of the few fields of study that is guaranteed to focus on a body of texts by non-Jewish writers. That probably counted for something under a regime that spent considerable effort in de-legitimizing the work of Jewish authors and anyone who used the work of Jewish authors even in fields like physics.
    , @Pericles
    So we wuz emporers after all. Det ante mig.
  49. @Average Man
    Steve, your first link is broken. It should go here:

    https://eidolon.pub/how-to-be-a-good-classicist-under-a-bad-emperor-6b848df6e54a#.yzmtqirqt

    That's a pretty silly essay. However, it makes me wonder, where does the Enlightenment fit in with the Alt-Right? Is it disliked because it eventually gave rise to post-modernism? I would think that Alt-Right would embrace it because it's much closer in time, more connected with modern European states, and gave us fantastic things, e.g. science!

    They generally dislike it because it gave rise to universalism and thus modern liberalism. Of course they have no problems using science–which is really quite reasonable, you can use Einstein’s equations to run a GPS without having to swallow all his liberal ideals, or use Newton’s laws of motion and not believe in alchemy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Something like the alt right with its race-based identitarianism would have been impossible pre-Enlightenment so it's paradoxical if they completely reject the Enlightenment. It's not as if there wasn't a significant racist (at least by today's standards) strain present in the thought of many Enlightenment thinkers.
    , @IAmNotHere
    Bah.

    This is all a circular argument. A circle-jerk, like "even".

    Without the Classics, there would be no modern world, and therefore: No Platform for FemFisters to voice their complaints in the first place.

    First Principles, People.
  50. @syonredux

    He first read the Aeneid while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Aeneas’s quest and his desire to build a city that, he said, quoting the text in English, “knows no boundaries in time and greatness.” Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. (Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg, who served as Facebook’s president when the company was incorporated, said, “There’s a part of him that—it was present even when he was twenty, twenty-one—this kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odysseys and all that stuff.”) At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Aeneid.

    On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of particular verses. Later that night, he IM’d to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the Latin and then the English: “fortune favors the bold” and “a nation/empire without bound.”
     
    "Daughter, dismiss thy fears; to thy desire
    The fates of thine are fix'd, and stand entire.
    Thou shalt behold thy wish'd Lavinian walls;
    And, ripe for heav'n, when fate Aeneas calls,
    Then shalt thou bear him up, sublime, to me:
    No councils have revers'd my firm decree.
    And, lest new fears disturb thy happy state,
    Know, I have search'd the mystic rolls of Fate:
    Thy son (nor is th' appointed season far)
    In Italy shall wage successful war,
    Shall tame fierce nations in the bloody field,
    And sov'reign laws impose, and cities build,
    Till, after ev'ry foe subdued, the sun
    Thrice thro' the signs his annual race shall run:
    This is his time prefix'd. Ascanius then,
    Now call'd Iulus, shall begin his reign.
    He thirty rolling years the crown shall wear,
    Then from Lavinium shall the seat transfer,
    And, with hard labor, Alba Longa build.
    The throne with his succession shall be fill'd
    Three hundred circuits more: then shall be seen
    Ilia the fair, a priestess and a queen,
    Who, full of Mars, in time, with kindly throes,
    Shall at a birth two goodly boys disclose.
    The royal babes a tawny wolf shall drain:
    Then Romulus his grandsire's throne shall gain,
    Of martial tow'rs the founder shall become,
    The people Romans call, the city Rome.
    To them no bounds of empire I assign,
    Nor term of years to their immortal line.

    Ev'n haughty Juno, who, with endless broils,
    Earth, seas, and heav'n, and Jove himself turmoils;
    At length aton'd, her friendly pow'r shall join,
    To cherish and advance the Trojan line.
    The subject world shall Rome's dominion own,
    And, prostrate, shall adore the nation of the gown.
    An age is ripening in revolving fate
    When Troy shall overturn the Grecian state,
    And sweet revenge her conqu'ring sons shall call,
    To crush the people that conspir'd her fall.
    Then Caesar from the Julian stock shall rise,
    Whose empire ocean, and whose fame the skies
    Alone shall bound; whom, fraught with eastern spoils,
    Our heav'n, the just reward of human toils,
    Securely shall repay with rites divine;
    And incense shall ascend before his sacred shrine.
    Then dire debate and impious war shall cease,
    And the stern age be soften'd into peace:
    Then banish'd Faith shall once again return,
    And Vestal fires in hallow'd temples burn;
    And Remus with Quirinus shall sustain
    The righteous laws, and fraud and force restrain.
    Janus himself before his fane shall wait,
    And keep the dreadful issues of his gate,
    With bolts and iron bars: within remains
    Imprison'd Fury, bound in brazen chains;
    High on a trophy rais'd, of useless arms,
    He sits, and threats the world with vain alarms."

    Aeneid, Dryden's translation

    Didn’t quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don’t count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Didn’t quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don’t count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.
     
    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around.....
    , @syonredux
    Since I hate waiting

    Didn’t quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don’t count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.
     
    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..
    , @Old Palo Altan
    This Pope speaks Latin? I doubt that he can even read it fluently.
  51. @Mike Sylwester
    I went to the "How to Be a Good Classicist Under a Bad Emperor" link, and there I found the Eidolon website, where Donna Zuckerberg writes:

    Today I’m excited to announce a new offering by the Eidolon editorial team: idle musings, a blog where we’ll share the strange, random, fun things we write. It will be informal and unscheduled. ...

    Basically, Yung In Chae wrote a poem and we needed a place to put it.
     

    Yung In Chae is an Associate Editor of Eidolon and studies Classics at Cambridge.

    So, then I clicked on "a poem", which took me to the poem that Yung In Chae wrote. Her poem's idea is to rhyme “chair” and “fake hair” in order to mock Donald Trump. Here are some excerpts from the poem:


    Ode of a Classicist-Craftsman-Poet (Who Also Wants to Do a Trump Comparison)

    by Yung In Chae

    Dedicated to Donna Zuckerberg, Editor-in-Chief Extraordinaire

    Oh wonderful chair
    I of the clearly fake hair

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny

    I talked to Farage and he
    couldn’t agree with me more

    We’re at the White House’s door
    Until Nigel went back on his word
    Can’t stick to anything, little turd
    But he speaks his mind, unlike Paul Ryan
    Fearless leader? I told you he was lyin’

    Then all those bitter women joined in
    Like I’d touch her, she’s not even thin

    [....]

    It was a joke, albeit at women’s expense
    Think that’s wrong? Well, fuck you, Mike Pence

    [....]

    But my chair, darling chair! You are truly art
    Untaxable, even — that makes me smart

    [....]

    I’m a man’s man, that there’s no disputin’
    Manlier than my main man Vladimir Putin

    Once you see my wall, you’ll be calling me Hadrian
    I’d beat anyone in all the fucking Mediterranean

    [....]

    You’d be crowned best chair ever, it’d happen in a jiff
    if only the election weren’t rigged (sniff)

    I say this, chair: your majesty on Election Day we’ll see
    and great again shall America be.

    Fin
     

    https://eidolon.pub/introducing-idle-musings-bd9fb59494a2#.oonxgobs8

    https://medium.com/idle-musings/ode-of-a-classicist-craftsman-poet-who-also-wants-to-do-a-trump-comparison-30d327ceda95#.o870fav1h

    idle musings

    The devil will find work for idle hands to do
    I stole and I lied, and why ?
    Because you asked me to !
    But now you make me feel so ashamed
    Because I’ve only got two hands
    Well, I’m still fond of you, oh-ho-oh

    So, what difference does it make ?
    Oh, what difference does it make ?
    Oh, it makes none
    But now you have gone
    And your prejudice won’t keep you warm tonight

    Read More
  52. I thought the article by Sister Facebook was pretty weak. In the first place, she clearly confuses and conflates “the classics” (in the sense of any of the great writings of European civilization) with “Classics” (in the sense of the literature of Greece and Rome).

    In the second place the article lacks any specifics in what she wants to see achieved, in terms of preventing “the Classics” from being turned into a reserve for Elite White Males. Of course the elephant in the room when she starts talking in this way is that homosexuality was common in both Greece and Rome, which, by modern standards, must mean that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. were “born gay”; and why wouldn’t we want to study the Gay Elite White Males who founded Western Civilization? Isn’t that like “homophobic”?

    Perhaps she wants us to read Sappho and Catullus instead of Caesar or Homer, but why not bring in the thoroughly discredited Black Athena thesis while you are at it? Or, at least, attempt to discuss some possible or probable linkages of Ancient Greece and Rome with other civilizations, e.g., Minoan, Egyptian, Persian, Indian, etc. etc.?

    However, she doesn’t do anything of the kind, she simply uses her platform to deliver a lot of moral exhortations, which tends to make the audience ask, who the heck are you? And she delivers nothing to demonstrate her knowledge, intellectual skill, subtlety, or other bases for authority. Altogether, a waste of time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Of course the elephant in the room when she starts talking in this way is that homosexuality was common in both Greece and Rome, which, by modern standards, must mean that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. were “born gay”; and why wouldn’t we want to study the Gay Elite White Males who founded Western Civilization? Isn’t that like “homophobic”?
     
    Reminds me of an online challenge from a while back. People were supposed to only read works written by women, or POC, or Gays for a year. My response? Great! I'll spend a year reading Plato, Oscar Wilde, Francis Bacon, Willa Cather (a two-for, woman +Gay), Christopher Marlowe, .....
    , @Maj. Kong
    Just wait til the Alt-Right culturally appropriates Maimonides.
  53. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “…an unholy alliance to remove feminism, political correctness, and multiculturalism from America.”

    Sounds like a plan. Where can I join?

    Read More
  54. @syonredux

    He first read the Aeneid while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Aeneas’s quest and his desire to build a city that, he said, quoting the text in English, “knows no boundaries in time and greatness.” Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. (Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg, who served as Facebook’s president when the company was incorporated, said, “There’s a part of him that—it was present even when he was twenty, twenty-one—this kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odysseys and all that stuff.”) At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Aeneid.

    On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of particular verses. Later that night, he IM’d to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the Latin and then the English: “fortune favors the bold” and “a nation/empire without bound.”
     
    "Daughter, dismiss thy fears; to thy desire
    The fates of thine are fix'd, and stand entire.
    Thou shalt behold thy wish'd Lavinian walls;
    And, ripe for heav'n, when fate Aeneas calls,
    Then shalt thou bear him up, sublime, to me:
    No councils have revers'd my firm decree.
    And, lest new fears disturb thy happy state,
    Know, I have search'd the mystic rolls of Fate:
    Thy son (nor is th' appointed season far)
    In Italy shall wage successful war,
    Shall tame fierce nations in the bloody field,
    And sov'reign laws impose, and cities build,
    Till, after ev'ry foe subdued, the sun
    Thrice thro' the signs his annual race shall run:
    This is his time prefix'd. Ascanius then,
    Now call'd Iulus, shall begin his reign.
    He thirty rolling years the crown shall wear,
    Then from Lavinium shall the seat transfer,
    And, with hard labor, Alba Longa build.
    The throne with his succession shall be fill'd
    Three hundred circuits more: then shall be seen
    Ilia the fair, a priestess and a queen,
    Who, full of Mars, in time, with kindly throes,
    Shall at a birth two goodly boys disclose.
    The royal babes a tawny wolf shall drain:
    Then Romulus his grandsire's throne shall gain,
    Of martial tow'rs the founder shall become,
    The people Romans call, the city Rome.
    To them no bounds of empire I assign,
    Nor term of years to their immortal line.

    Ev'n haughty Juno, who, with endless broils,
    Earth, seas, and heav'n, and Jove himself turmoils;
    At length aton'd, her friendly pow'r shall join,
    To cherish and advance the Trojan line.
    The subject world shall Rome's dominion own,
    And, prostrate, shall adore the nation of the gown.
    An age is ripening in revolving fate
    When Troy shall overturn the Grecian state,
    And sweet revenge her conqu'ring sons shall call,
    To crush the people that conspir'd her fall.
    Then Caesar from the Julian stock shall rise,
    Whose empire ocean, and whose fame the skies
    Alone shall bound; whom, fraught with eastern spoils,
    Our heav'n, the just reward of human toils,
    Securely shall repay with rites divine;
    And incense shall ascend before his sacred shrine.
    Then dire debate and impious war shall cease,
    And the stern age be soften'd into peace:
    Then banish'd Faith shall once again return,
    And Vestal fires in hallow'd temples burn;
    And Remus with Quirinus shall sustain
    The righteous laws, and fraud and force restrain.
    Janus himself before his fane shall wait,
    And keep the dreadful issues of his gate,
    With bolts and iron bars: within remains
    Imprison'd Fury, bound in brazen chains;
    High on a trophy rais'd, of useless arms,
    He sits, and threats the world with vain alarms."

    Aeneid, Dryden's translation

    Taylor’s translation (1907)

    To these no period nor appointed date,
    Nor bounds to their dominion I assign;
    An endless empire shall the race await.
    Nay, Juno, too, who now, in mood malign,
    Earth, sea and sky is harrying, shall incline
    To better counsels, and unite with me
    To cherish and uphold the imperial line,
    The Romans, rulers of the land and sea,
    Lords of the flowing gown. So standeth my decree.

    Read More
  55. @Desiderius

    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration…
     
    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Universities in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Calculus past for computation…

    Babies, bathwater...

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ. Somehow they think they can skip the in Christ part and everything will be hunky-dory. That's not Christianity's fault.

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ. Somehow they think they can skip the in Christ part and everything will be hunky-dory. That’s not Christianity’s fault.

    Yes, exactly. Zuckerberg and her SJW ilk tear down western culture, then try to reassemble bits of its rubble into the perpetual post-Christian Tower of Babel all cultural Marxists are trying to build. The fact that they have no clear plan or ultimate purpose for this utopian delusion seems to bother them not at all. It’s the destruction and power they relish.

    Read More
  56. @Steve Sailer
    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.

    The devil can quote Scripture for his own purpose, as another dead white male wrote–in (((The Merchant of Venice))), of all places.

    Read More
  57. @Mr. Blank
    You know, just screw these people. I've just had it. I can't play video games without being a racist, I can't watch sports without being a racist, I can't listen to music without being a racist. Fine, whatever.

    Now I can't read Homer or Plato or Plutarch without being a racist. Always, everywhere, whatever I do, I'm somehow scheming to put blacks back in chains and women in the kitchen. No pleasure I can have escapes the stain of my distant ancestors.

    All accounts must be settled, all crooked roads must be made straight, all mountains and valleys must be leveled to achieve perfect justice. Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies. It's an urge so strong it manifests itself even in people who don't believe in God.

    I'm beginning to understand why wise gurus supposedly went to live on mountaintops, away from all human contact.

    Maybe theocratic bullies, and I’m including climate change zealots in this class, lack humility and faith in a greater scheme. Maybe they feel exposed and vulnerable because they lack whatever it is in the brain that brings calm to individuals under stress. Whatever it is, I’d rather they kept it to themselves instead of obsessively worrying others with their plight.

    Read More
  58. @Mr. Blank

    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant
     
    This. She'd hate the comparison, but she sounds EXACTLY like certain Bible-thumping fundamentalists I knew growing up in the South.

    Most mentally healthy people see shared interests as an opportunity to bond with people they might otherwise never have reason to talk to. But a certain sort of incredibly nasty, petty person looks at it and says: "Hey, there's a bunch of people I don't like enjoying something that I also enjoy. I should go over there and confiscate it from them, because they're probably enjoying it in ways I don't approve of."

    Well, she does have a certain point though…someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn’t have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn’t much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of “progressive” causes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Well, she does have a certain point though…someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn’t have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn’t much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of “progressive” causes.
     
    There's a lot of pseudo-sophisticated LARPing in the "Alt-Right," and Spencer is nowhere near the worst offender. Since "The Daily Shoah" is the source of a lot of the "Alt-Right's" memes, I've been sampling its wares for the last few weeks. On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered......
    , @Mr. Anon
    Spencer probably understands the thinking of someone like Plato, Aristotle, or Livy better than Ms. Zuckerberg does. And in turn, they would understand Spencer. Zuckerberg they would merely view as a mad woman.
    , @guest
    You don't have to be a scholar to use things scholars just so happen to trick us into paying them to write unread articles about.

    Why are you even bringing up what's "scholarly" in the realm of politics? Like the other side cares. (Only insofar as bridges still have to stay built.) Scholars to them are whoever wears robes and those stupid hats and tells them what they want to hear. (Or decides what they should want to hear then conditions them to want it then tells it to them.)

    The alt-right is not a highbrow movement. Can't be, because the entire intellectual class in Western society is sick. The universities, think tanks, MSM, etc. are a lost cause, obviously. But so are the clerks, the teachers, the professionals, basically everyone who makes a living off the mind. We're really in a very desperate situation, thanks to the brain rot of PC.

    The alt-right probably isn't anti-intellectual enough, actually. We need a common sense movement.

    , @Almost Missouri
    Richard Spencer & co. may or may not have scholarly approach to Classicism, but Dr. Zuckerberg certainly doesn't, which is the greater misdeed because she is a Classicist (or at least promotes herself as such and has a doctorate to attest that other Classicists think she is too).

    It is telling that Dr. Zuckerberg cites no Classical authority throughout her entire rant supposedly defending the Classics. The authority she does cite is SJWism, which she cites a priori as though it were self evidently true.

    Of the two, Zuckerberg is far worse than Spencer. The alt-right proceeds from the Classics because they believe they are proceeding from the meaning of what the Classics actually say. They may or may not be correct, but they are arguing in good faith. Dr. Zuckerberg openly admits that the Classics are just a vehicle of convenience for her true calling: being a Social Justice Xanthippe (I wonder is she would even recognize the reference) as she openly calls on other Classicists to warp their field of study to achieve a prejudiced and exclusionary political objective.

    Truly she is what she rails against. The lady doth project too much.
  59. @Mike Sylwester
    One of the articles in the Eidolon website is titled "Giving It Up in the Classroom: Feminist Classics and the Burden of Authority" and is written by Lisl Walsh, who is identified as "an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies. Yoga enthusiast and instructor. Feminist. Uncertified neologician and portmantologist".

    Walsh's article begins:

    A couple years ago, I was in my first few years in a tenure-track position at a small, private liberal arts institution in the Midwest, and I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ....

    ... the students’ assumption of me by the end of the semester, despite any learning they had accomplished along the way, was that I was a do-nothing, know-nothing instructor. And they did not shrink from telling me as much.
     
    At some point, Walsh decided that her problem was that she had "a non-authoritative body" while her students were "a bunch of authoritarians". She decided to assign her "bunch of authoritarians" to themselves design her course's syllabus.

    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ....

    In changing my approach to the classroom, I accepted that, given the body I currently inhabit, students would likely never automatically grant me their trust in my knowledge, experience, authority, etc. up to the level that they “expect” a Professor should have (‘automatic’ is important here: the point is that students don’t realize how much of their perception of authoritativeness is rooted in their willingness to grant an amount of it in the first place).

    But I also accepted that my clutching at the traditional signifiers of authoritativeness — insisting that students not call me by my first name (which I never actually employed, but I know those who do), making sure to mention in class that I had a Ph.D. (some students assumed I did not), dressing more “professionally,” wearing makeup, etc. — might ratchet up students’ impressions of me, but would ultimately never get students to assume that I was worthy of the same amount of automatic respect they would grant to a white masculine body up in front of the room. ....

    So I deal with this ... crisis of authority by using 4 principles I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory:

    1) decentering authority away from the instructor;

    2) empowering students as producers of knowledge;

    3) modeling a democratic/consent-based classroom; and

    4) empowering students as monitors of their peers’ work.

    In every class where I’ve employed these strategies, the evaluations have been more constructive and compassionate, and students have stopped questioning my competence in the field. ....

    I understand that it is impossible to remove the power structures within the classroom, and my decision to recruit the students in structuring their own learning is still an exercise of my power — a power that stems in part from my perceived whiteness, my relative age, and my occupation of space in the room. I try to be transparent about this power dynamic with my students.

    I decided to have the students (help) design their syllabus. The first time I tried this tactic for a traditional Roman history course, I didn’t hand over the reins completely: I had a few learning goals I wanted to keep. Students would need to “know” at least a framework of the dominant narrative of Roman history so that they could use that knowledge to analyze Roman cultural values (or take more specified courses in the future), to familiarize themselves with a variety of primary sources in translation, and, most importantly, to use Roman history to “de-naturalize” their perceptions of the things they consider normal. But as far as other learning goals and assessments went, I left that up to the students. ....

    In decentralizing authority, I have learned also to share the work of the course and be honest about my limits. For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

     

    Lisl Walsh, an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies, continues to explain to her Eidolon readers how she is dealing with her problem of having “a non-authoritative body” while her students are “a bunch of authoritarians”.

    The third principle [that I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory] is a democratic/consent-based classroom: in general, I try to implement this by taking a lot of votes, asking for consent, and creating elements of choice that engage student agency and investment. …. I try to have them negotiate with me exam dates, project due dates, appropriate paper length requirements, and/or exam questions. ….

    Knowing how to make good use of the instructor is helpful in this regard: an openness about my strengths and weaknesses as an instructor, the fact that I have experience with the subject, that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.

    In Roman Civilization, for example, the students explicitly gave me permission to give pop quizzes on the readings whenever I wanted, and as often as I wanted, in order to keep them motivated to keep doing their homework. They might (like the Augustan senate) decide unanimously that they want no part in designing the content for the course and they want you to make all the decisions and be in control of assessing them — but at least in this they have given their consent to hand over authority to the instructor and acknowledged the instructor’s expertise. ….

    I am aware that some of these ideas might seem radical, but I have found them useful for fixing a very specific problem of the postmodern Classics classroom dynamic, and a problem that is perhaps more obstructive for particular physical manifestations of the Classicist professor — female, young (or old!), non-White, non-normatively gendered, not-normatively able-bodied, not a native speaker of English, in a contingent faculty position, graduate student, etc. — where claims to authority are perhaps more contested and questioned ….

    … I still see some added benefits to incorporating these principles into your classroom: ….

    [....]

    2. Students are practicing precisely the de-naturalizing of norms you might want them to be doing with the course content. By which I mean: if your course uses antiquity in part in order to help students be more aware about the issues in their contemporary world, some of those issues might be power, authority, and privilege. Having students “unpack” or even reorient their assumptions about power in educational environments helps them see more clearly the construction and upholding of these power dynamics.

    [....]

    6. Finally, you have the opportunity to destabilize for your students the very system that is perhaps keeping your less-privileged colleagues from being granted the automatic respect of those same students. You, as the privileged, have more freedom to “train” students to see authority differently.

    [....]

    Gaining your students’ respect by drastically reducing the authority you have over their educational experience may seem paradoxical, but it has worked for me, at least for now (I anticipate as I age, or as my body changes, there will likely be different assumptions made about me) ….

    https://eidolon.pub/giving-it-up-in-the-classroom-14c1afcfd69#.95wvserwj

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    the fact... that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.
     
    !!!!!!
    , @Almost Missouri
    Shorter Lisl Walsh:

    After a disastrous first experience of teaching, caused by her own stupidity and conceits, Lisl found she could improve her evaluation scores by not really teaching anymore, while hanging on to the privileges and pay of the office of "teacher".

    You go grrl!

    To be fair to her, in her case, not teaching is almost certainly an improvement on teaching, as her students apparently noticed.
    , @This Is Our Home
    She sounds like she was an insecure controlling b*tch and rather than blaming herself for her students' understandable reaction to that, she has constructed a ludicrously complex way to explain it away and save her ego. And hilariously she has grounded her defence mechanism in multicultural victimology mumbo jumbo. Amazing!

    To be fair though, it has allowed her to find a way to be less controlling and insecure while avoiding the hard self-reflection that would normally be required.
  60. @SPMoore8
    I thought the article by Sister Facebook was pretty weak. In the first place, she clearly confuses and conflates "the classics" (in the sense of any of the great writings of European civilization) with "Classics" (in the sense of the literature of Greece and Rome).

    In the second place the article lacks any specifics in what she wants to see achieved, in terms of preventing "the Classics" from being turned into a reserve for Elite White Males. Of course the elephant in the room when she starts talking in this way is that homosexuality was common in both Greece and Rome, which, by modern standards, must mean that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. were "born gay"; and why wouldn't we want to study the Gay Elite White Males who founded Western Civilization? Isn't that like "homophobic"?

    Perhaps she wants us to read Sappho and Catullus instead of Caesar or Homer, but why not bring in the thoroughly discredited Black Athena thesis while you are at it? Or, at least, attempt to discuss some possible or probable linkages of Ancient Greece and Rome with other civilizations, e.g., Minoan, Egyptian, Persian, Indian, etc. etc.?

    However, she doesn't do anything of the kind, she simply uses her platform to deliver a lot of moral exhortations, which tends to make the audience ask, who the heck are you? And she delivers nothing to demonstrate her knowledge, intellectual skill, subtlety, or other bases for authority. Altogether, a waste of time.

    Of course the elephant in the room when she starts talking in this way is that homosexuality was common in both Greece and Rome, which, by modern standards, must mean that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. were “born gay”; and why wouldn’t we want to study the Gay Elite White Males who founded Western Civilization? Isn’t that like “homophobic”?

    Reminds me of an online challenge from a while back. People were supposed to only read works written by women, or POC, or Gays for a year. My response? Great! I’ll spend a year reading Plato, Oscar Wilde, Francis Bacon, Willa Cather (a two-for, woman +Gay), Christopher Marlowe, …..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Reminds me of an online challenge from a while back. People were supposed to only read works written by women, or POC, or Gays for a year. My response? Great! I’ll spend a year reading Plato, Oscar Wilde, Francis Bacon, Willa Cather (a two-for, woman +Gay), Christopher Marlowe, ….."

    How many books written by Black published authors do not use Blackness as the main central theme of their book? Even all of Barack Hussein Obama's books makes Blackness the main course and not the appetizer. It gets boring pretty quickly because it makes Black authors look one dimensional monolithic.
  61. @syonredux
    Seems that even some people on the Left find Donna Zuckerberg's notions a tad extreme:

    But then Zuckerberg tries to stake out a different claim for the Classics, mainly that they should be decoupled from Western civilization and that the foundations on which the West was formed should be undone in service of modern political concerns about race, class, and gender. She proposes an action plan for Classicists that would see them actively reject those who wish to understand Western civilization through the story of Greece and Rome:

    "​When you hear someone —be they a student, a colleague, or an amateur — say that they are interested in Classics because of “the Greek miracle” or because Classics is “the foundation of Western civilization and culture,” challenge that viewpoint respectfully but forcefully. Engage them on their assumed definitions of “foundation,” “Western,” “civilization,” and “culture.” Point out that such ideas are a slippery slope to white supremacy. Seek better reasons for studying Classics."

    ​She added that Classicists should avoid research into “elite white men” and privilege research into race, class, and gender issues over those of politics, international relations, or military history. To that end, she is starting a project to document alt-right use of the Classics and is publishing a book next year called Not All Dead White Men to explore diversity in the Classics.


    Here is where her argument rubs me the wrong way. I think that in her right and righteous zeal to ensure that the Classics do not become the handmaiden of hate, as the Nazis happily used Tacitus’ Germania, Zuckerberg has let the pendulum swing too far in the direction of denying what the Classics actually are. Greece and Rome are the foundation of Western civilization, whether one likes that fact or not, and whether one supports that legacy or wishes to change it. Our political institutions, religious institutions, language, science, history, and culture are an outgrowth of the structures that built, sustained, and destroyed Rome. It is not much of a stretch to see the formational period of modern Western civilization in the Middle Ages as an argument between those who looked back to Rome and those who wanted to transform that inherited legacy into something new. Every European monarch for a thousand years aped the style of the Roman emperors, and less than 100 years ago there were still two monarchs in Europe—the Czar of Russia and the Austrian Kaiser—who traced not just their Caesarian titles but their imperial authority back to Rome, the Czar in what was allegedly a transmission of Eastern Roman authority to the Third Rome in Moscow, and the Kaiser through inheriting the power and glory of the defunct Holy Roman Empire in a transmission of the last vestiges of Roman glory. The Founders of the United States explicitly cited Roman precedent in establishing the Constitution, and when Napoleon promulgated his famous legal code, the basis for modern European jurisprudence, it took its form and inspiration from Justinian’s codification of Roman law.

    It does not diminish the struggles of race, class, or gender to recognize the debt that the West owes to the elites who reigned in Greece and Rome, nor to acknowledge that not everyone wants to devote his or her life to social justice issues. Some people are genuinely interested in issues of power and privilege, of military campaigns and political disputes. These should not be delegitimized in a rush to man the barricades against rightwing extremists. Indeed, it plays right into their hands.
     
    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/a-question-of-purpose-what-do-the-classics-mean-in-todays-political-climate

    Notice the presence of facts in your rebuttal. Now go back and compare the original screed.

    In all those endless paragraphs, not one reference to an actual, you know, Classic. Is is she trying to no platform the very subjects of her putative study?

    Read More
  62. @German_reader
    "could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s"

    I'm not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism's stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline...she's probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it's not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration...I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    “To destroy a people, you must first sever their roots.” – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    From my experience, Classical culture, art, and symbology are the simultaneously inspirational and aspirational “missing link” that connects us to a past purposefully pressed into the shadows. Whether nefarious or efficient in nature, this severing of a connection post-WWII resulted in an engineered tabula rasa ripe for postmodern redesign–the consumerist “American Dream”.

    As materialism is roundly rejected by the AR in favor of spiritualism, identity, and racial collectivism, we must rely upon the Classical thoughts, words, and deeds to act as a psychic and intellectual bridge to the past. Zuckerberg has clearly identified this as critical cultural infrastructure that must be made “a bridge too far”.

    She’s striking at our roots. And worse yet, imploring a professional society to join in and then salt the earth with something I can (from the article) only describe as Cultural Marxism.

    Read More
  63. @Steve Sailer
    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.

    That was the message to the uninitiated, those who look at the esoteric truth would see that the Kagans were really pro-Sparta, and see the US as a decadent Athens to be destroyed.

    So when a Kagan inflamed the tensions in Ukraine, she was really an Alcibiades that will turn traitor and defect to Sparta-Russia in the future.

    /sarcStrauss

    Read More
  64. @SPMoore8
    I thought the article by Sister Facebook was pretty weak. In the first place, she clearly confuses and conflates "the classics" (in the sense of any of the great writings of European civilization) with "Classics" (in the sense of the literature of Greece and Rome).

    In the second place the article lacks any specifics in what she wants to see achieved, in terms of preventing "the Classics" from being turned into a reserve for Elite White Males. Of course the elephant in the room when she starts talking in this way is that homosexuality was common in both Greece and Rome, which, by modern standards, must mean that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. were "born gay"; and why wouldn't we want to study the Gay Elite White Males who founded Western Civilization? Isn't that like "homophobic"?

    Perhaps she wants us to read Sappho and Catullus instead of Caesar or Homer, but why not bring in the thoroughly discredited Black Athena thesis while you are at it? Or, at least, attempt to discuss some possible or probable linkages of Ancient Greece and Rome with other civilizations, e.g., Minoan, Egyptian, Persian, Indian, etc. etc.?

    However, she doesn't do anything of the kind, she simply uses her platform to deliver a lot of moral exhortations, which tends to make the audience ask, who the heck are you? And she delivers nothing to demonstrate her knowledge, intellectual skill, subtlety, or other bases for authority. Altogether, a waste of time.

    Just wait til the Alt-Right culturally appropriates Maimonides.

    Read More
  65. @SFG
    They generally dislike it because it gave rise to universalism and thus modern liberalism. Of course they have no problems using science--which is really quite reasonable, you can use Einstein's equations to run a GPS without having to swallow all his liberal ideals, or use Newton's laws of motion and not believe in alchemy.

    Something like the alt right with its race-based identitarianism would have been impossible pre-Enlightenment so it’s paradoxical if they completely reject the Enlightenment. It’s not as if there wasn’t a significant racist (at least by today’s standards) strain present in the thought of many Enlightenment thinkers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The alt-right is not a tightly led organization, it's rather a loose conglomeration of several different strains of thought. Something like the Dark Enlightenment, which usually includes cultural absolutism (i.e. some cultures are worth more than others), Darwinism and HBD (the sexes are innately different for biological reasons, same thing for races, ethnic groups, social classes), some corrections of liberal retconning of history (e.g. how far to the right people like Lincoln or Churchill would be, were they still alive), discoveries or rediscoveries of some more esoteric earlier authors as well as some more esoteric or rightist contemporary authors (like Evola or Ezra Pound or Alain de Benoist), and only some of these reject the Enlightenment.

    It's also possible to reject some parts of the Enlightenment without rejecting the whole thing (the Enlightenment itself was just a loose conglomeration of several different strains of thought, some of whom were at each others' throats all the time), and that's precisely what many people are doing, so I'm not sure what your complaint is here.

    Besides, of course race was seen by people before Darwin - racism is certainly possible without Darwinism or IQ studies. You can simply acknowledge that different races exist (based on your lying eyes), and then start from there. And some people are loosely sympathetic to the alt-right without much thinking about genetics research or modern science.

    So I'm not sure what your complaint is.
  66. @syonredux
    Seems that even some people on the Left find Donna Zuckerberg's notions a tad extreme:

    But then Zuckerberg tries to stake out a different claim for the Classics, mainly that they should be decoupled from Western civilization and that the foundations on which the West was formed should be undone in service of modern political concerns about race, class, and gender. She proposes an action plan for Classicists that would see them actively reject those who wish to understand Western civilization through the story of Greece and Rome:

    "​When you hear someone —be they a student, a colleague, or an amateur — say that they are interested in Classics because of “the Greek miracle” or because Classics is “the foundation of Western civilization and culture,” challenge that viewpoint respectfully but forcefully. Engage them on their assumed definitions of “foundation,” “Western,” “civilization,” and “culture.” Point out that such ideas are a slippery slope to white supremacy. Seek better reasons for studying Classics."

    ​She added that Classicists should avoid research into “elite white men” and privilege research into race, class, and gender issues over those of politics, international relations, or military history. To that end, she is starting a project to document alt-right use of the Classics and is publishing a book next year called Not All Dead White Men to explore diversity in the Classics.


    Here is where her argument rubs me the wrong way. I think that in her right and righteous zeal to ensure that the Classics do not become the handmaiden of hate, as the Nazis happily used Tacitus’ Germania, Zuckerberg has let the pendulum swing too far in the direction of denying what the Classics actually are. Greece and Rome are the foundation of Western civilization, whether one likes that fact or not, and whether one supports that legacy or wishes to change it. Our political institutions, religious institutions, language, science, history, and culture are an outgrowth of the structures that built, sustained, and destroyed Rome. It is not much of a stretch to see the formational period of modern Western civilization in the Middle Ages as an argument between those who looked back to Rome and those who wanted to transform that inherited legacy into something new. Every European monarch for a thousand years aped the style of the Roman emperors, and less than 100 years ago there were still two monarchs in Europe—the Czar of Russia and the Austrian Kaiser—who traced not just their Caesarian titles but their imperial authority back to Rome, the Czar in what was allegedly a transmission of Eastern Roman authority to the Third Rome in Moscow, and the Kaiser through inheriting the power and glory of the defunct Holy Roman Empire in a transmission of the last vestiges of Roman glory. The Founders of the United States explicitly cited Roman precedent in establishing the Constitution, and when Napoleon promulgated his famous legal code, the basis for modern European jurisprudence, it took its form and inspiration from Justinian’s codification of Roman law.

    It does not diminish the struggles of race, class, or gender to recognize the debt that the West owes to the elites who reigned in Greece and Rome, nor to acknowledge that not everyone wants to devote his or her life to social justice issues. Some people are genuinely interested in issues of power and privilege, of military campaigns and political disputes. These should not be delegitimized in a rush to man the barricades against rightwing extremists. Indeed, it plays right into their hands.
     
    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/a-question-of-purpose-what-do-the-classics-mean-in-todays-political-climate

    even some people on the Left

    We got bigger fish to fry presently than the Left:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/why-are-the-media-taking-the-cias-hacking-claims-at-face-value/

    Read More
  67. @whorefinder
    "Of course, Dr. Donna Zuckerberg’s brother happens to be the most elite (((white man))) of his generation"

    FTFY

    “Of course, Dr. Donna Zuckerberg’s brother happens to be the most elite (((white man))) of his generation”

    FTFY

    Does a name like “Zuckerberg” actually need the triple parentheses treatment?Seems a tad redundant to me….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Triple parenthesis treatment isn't for you then but for others, those 'trained ' to look past, to not notice.. to hammer it home , make it unavoidable. (There is considerable investment in the'not noticing'culture, as well as a double standard.. when they want to crow about Jewish supremacy in some context, usually among their own, then they are proudly JEWISH, but don't let anyone non-Jew point it out. )

    Second it's not only meant to inform some but to intentionally upset, insult, disquiet. Part of its use is 'oh, you don't like when I do this?'... and so doing it. Less for you and more for when (((DONNA))) or her tribal kin read through the comments.

    Last some use it to underscore the pervasiveness of Jewish power and influence... so its function is not for the present article being read alone but over a span of articles & comments to effect a cumulative awareness when encountered over and over.. the redundancy is a feature not a bug
    , @Hibernian
    I think "Zuckerman" or "Zukerman" is fairly common, but I never heard of a "Zuckerberg" until Facebook Mark became famous.
    , @Ivy
    Zuckerberg in German, Sugar Mountain in English
    Neil Young had a song about that.


    Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    With the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you're thinking that
    you're leaving there too soon,
    You're leaving there too soon.

    It's so noisy at the fair
    But all your friends are there
    And the candy floss you had
    And your mother and your dad.

    Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    With the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you're thinking that
    you're leaving there too soon,
    You're leaving there too soon.

    There's a girl just down the aisle,
    Oh, to turn and see her smile.
    You can hear the words she wrote
    As you read the hidden note.

    Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    With the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you're thinking that
    you're leaving there too soon,
    You're leaving there too soon.

    Now you're underneath the stairs
    And you're givin' back some glares
    To the people who you met
    And it's your first cigarette.

    Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    With the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you're thinking that
    you're leaving there too soon,
    You're leaving there too soon.

    Now you say you're leavin' home
    'Cause you want to be alone.
    Ain't it funny how you feel
    When you're findin' out it's real?

    Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    With the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you're thinking that
    you're leaving there too soon,
    You're leaving there too soon.

    Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    with the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can't be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you're thinking that
    you're leaving there too soon,
    You're leaving there too soon.
  68. The best part about Trump’s election is how the Left is taking it all in stride.

    Seriously, the hyperventilating is only escalating as the coronation, ahem, inauguration draws near.

    I noticed Keith Olbermann recently reappeared from his filthy hole to add to the hysteria and giggles. Seems that Keith is loved by the Left when they’re out of power, good for rallying Mr. Soros’s troops to riot and attack when they’re disheartened by reality. But he quickly lost his eminence once Obama took over.

    Read More
  69. @SFG
    Didn't quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don't count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.

    Didn’t quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don’t count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.

    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    According to surveys, Russia is not a very
    religious country, certainly nothing like
    Italy. In my experience Russians tend to be
    cynics, if not outright nihilists. Apparently,
    70 years of Marxist dialectical materialism has
    had its effect
  70. Shorter:

    Those people are stupid. They’re stupid because I just said they’re stupid. Now that we’ve established that they’re stupid, we need to tell them how stupid they are.

    Read More
  71. @syonredux

    He first read the Aeneid while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Aeneas’s quest and his desire to build a city that, he said, quoting the text in English, “knows no boundaries in time and greatness.” Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. (Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg, who served as Facebook’s president when the company was incorporated, said, “There’s a part of him that—it was present even when he was twenty, twenty-one—this kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odysseys and all that stuff.”) At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Aeneid.

    On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of particular verses. Later that night, he IM’d to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the Latin and then the English: “fortune favors the bold” and “a nation/empire without bound.”
     
    "Daughter, dismiss thy fears; to thy desire
    The fates of thine are fix'd, and stand entire.
    Thou shalt behold thy wish'd Lavinian walls;
    And, ripe for heav'n, when fate Aeneas calls,
    Then shalt thou bear him up, sublime, to me:
    No councils have revers'd my firm decree.
    And, lest new fears disturb thy happy state,
    Know, I have search'd the mystic rolls of Fate:
    Thy son (nor is th' appointed season far)
    In Italy shall wage successful war,
    Shall tame fierce nations in the bloody field,
    And sov'reign laws impose, and cities build,
    Till, after ev'ry foe subdued, the sun
    Thrice thro' the signs his annual race shall run:
    This is his time prefix'd. Ascanius then,
    Now call'd Iulus, shall begin his reign.
    He thirty rolling years the crown shall wear,
    Then from Lavinium shall the seat transfer,
    And, with hard labor, Alba Longa build.
    The throne with his succession shall be fill'd
    Three hundred circuits more: then shall be seen
    Ilia the fair, a priestess and a queen,
    Who, full of Mars, in time, with kindly throes,
    Shall at a birth two goodly boys disclose.
    The royal babes a tawny wolf shall drain:
    Then Romulus his grandsire's throne shall gain,
    Of martial tow'rs the founder shall become,
    The people Romans call, the city Rome.
    To them no bounds of empire I assign,
    Nor term of years to their immortal line.

    Ev'n haughty Juno, who, with endless broils,
    Earth, seas, and heav'n, and Jove himself turmoils;
    At length aton'd, her friendly pow'r shall join,
    To cherish and advance the Trojan line.
    The subject world shall Rome's dominion own,
    And, prostrate, shall adore the nation of the gown.
    An age is ripening in revolving fate
    When Troy shall overturn the Grecian state,
    And sweet revenge her conqu'ring sons shall call,
    To crush the people that conspir'd her fall.
    Then Caesar from the Julian stock shall rise,
    Whose empire ocean, and whose fame the skies
    Alone shall bound; whom, fraught with eastern spoils,
    Our heav'n, the just reward of human toils,
    Securely shall repay with rites divine;
    And incense shall ascend before his sacred shrine.
    Then dire debate and impious war shall cease,
    And the stern age be soften'd into peace:
    Then banish'd Faith shall once again return,
    And Vestal fires in hallow'd temples burn;
    And Remus with Quirinus shall sustain
    The righteous laws, and fraud and force restrain.
    Janus himself before his fane shall wait,
    And keep the dreadful issues of his gate,
    With bolts and iron bars: within remains
    Imprison'd Fury, bound in brazen chains;
    High on a trophy rais'd, of useless arms,
    He sits, and threats the world with vain alarms."

    Aeneid, Dryden's translation

    It’s kind of telling that Mark Zuckerberg especially liked the parts of the Aeneis that are imperial propaganda (which many other readers would regard as diminishing the artistic value of the poem). Certainly a very intelligent guy, but quite a flawed character imo.

    Read More
  72. Whence comes this delusion of Dr. Zuckerberg that she and her ilk have any gate-keeping power whatever when it comes to anybody’s reading, enjoying, and interpreting the classics?

    What’s she going to do? Make Amazon stop selling us books? Get our names on a National Shitlist so the county library branch won’t let us check out classical authors? Cut off our subscriptions to Eidolon?

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    They can't forestall your access to the classics (for now). But they can stremgthen their hand as Cultural Gatekeepers, and he more deliberate about controlling the classical Narrative. They already have more or less of a monopoly on making a living teaching or disseminating classicism. They al
    , @Hibernian
    "What’s she going to do?... ...Cut off our subscriptions to Eidolon?"

    Please don't give her any ideas!
  73. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @German_reader
    "could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s"

    I'm not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism's stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline...she's probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it's not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration...I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    Good point, too many right wingers think we have to be a christian nation. Instead their are plenty of Pentecostals among Central Americans. This guy that was against Jews complain about Hart-Caller but has not Hart-Caller increase Catholics from Mexico and Pentecostals from Central America but the guy complain that Hart-Caller made us less of a christian nation but the biggest immigrant group Mexicans are Catholics. Also, the right in the US has been a lot on emotionalism. The alt-right has more self-taught folks than either the skinheads all emotion or regular conservatives which the only ancient history they basically know is the bible. In fact I’m seeing less of an intellectual movement on the left and more emotion for the rise of Gen M and the Bernie Sanders movement and more of a intellectualism with the alt-right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    The claim that God (Supreme Being) created the world,
    introduced in the Hebrew Scriptures, is something that
    needs to be rejected. This belongs with the childhood of
    humanity. The ancient Greeks laughed at this claim in
    view of the presence of evil and suffering. Of course, that's
    what atheists do - they reject the claim that God created the
    Universe and the concept of the Supreme Being altogether.
    But one doesn't need to reject Christianity completely. There
    are versions of Christianity which are more intellectually
    satisfying than the standard one. And I don't mean Deism
    (i.e., belief in the creator God who became an absentee landlord)
    which was such a favorite with the Founders. However, going back
    to the Ancient Greeks is a good start. They certainly didn't believe
    that the world needed a creator. The world, in the view of many Greek
    thinkers, just is. Many such issues need to be rethought. E.g., modern physics
    produces growing evidence that the Universe is actually a simulation, i.e., a virtual
    Universe, ultimately not real. This is an exciting time but you cannot get closer to the
    truth without facing the abyss, as the existentialists already realized
  74. @The Last Real Calvinist
    "A specter is haunting the Internet . . ."

    ". . . unholy alliance . . ."

    ". . . arc of the moral universe . . ."

    You'd think someone steeped in the classics could write an opening paragraph with fewer cliches and vapid nonsenses.

    What a sad article this is, really -- so "fueled by a sense of entitlement dwarfed only by [her] inflated estimation of [her] own intelligence", to borrow a misguided scholar's own not-very-euphonious phrasing.

    “A specter is haunting the Internet . . .”

    “. . . unholy alliance . . .”

    “. . . arc of the moral universe . . .”

    You’d think someone steeped in the classics could write an opening paragraph with fewer cliches and vapid nonsenses.

    The first of those two quotes are not from the classics, they are from Marx. Thus, Prof. Zuckerberg reveals herself to be not a true classicist, but a postmodern Jewish Marxist. Since I have spent a fair amount of time studying philosophy, I will attempt to school her in the error of her ways:

    The classical tradition in philosophy can be characterized by Man’s acknowledgement of the limits imposed by Nature. In classical philosophy, Man himself is a product of this nature, which imposes limitations upon him that he can understand but not fully overcome. His task is to educate himself to understand nature, and work within the limits imposed by it. The task of human society, and political society, is to be able to delineate between the different natural abilities of individual humans, and use those differences for the benefit of the entire society.

    For instance, in Book I of Aristotle’s Politics, Aristotle argued that all of Nature is hierarchical — and this is true of individual humans, too. Aristotle lists a series of social relationships from highest to lowest, and each “level” by nature rules over its inferiors. At the top of the list is the human Male; next are females, then children, then slaves, and finally animals. Each of these “levels” of human society is based upon the ability to partake in reason and suppress emotion. Thus, Aristotle sees the male as most rational, the female less so, the child less than the female, the slave less than the child, and the animal less than the slave. Each layer of society is symbiotic, and society functions most harmoniously when the superior parts rule over the inferior parts. For Aristotle, “justice” is “equality among equals, and inequality among unequals.”

    [MORE]

    (Similarly, Plato describes a hierarchical list of types of political societies. First is his Ideal Republic ruled by the Guardian Class; then a military rule; then a business oligarchy; then a democracy; and finally, a dictatorship, which inevitably arises from too much democratic equality. Democracy, for Plato, is a perversion of nature).

    The culmination of classical philosophy is Christianity, which places true justice not in the hands of the political system, but in the hands of an Almighty God, who is the author of Nature itself and the Creator of these levels of distinction. The task of the Christian is to understand the defects of his nature, and to submit to the grace of the Almighty to remedy it in the hereafter.

    Now, Modern philosophy attacks the notion that man must accept the limits of his nature. Modern philosophy seeks to use science and technology to change and modify man’s Natural environment so as to remove Nature’s impediments. (In other words, Modernity seeks to create an artificial, not a natural, society).

    Democracy is a Modern artifact because men are not inherently equal. Feminism is a Modern artifact because males and females are inherently unequal. And racial egalitarianism is a Modern artifact because the races are inherently unequal. Democracy, feminism, and racial egalitarianism are all artificial. The Alt-right recognizes this; consequently, it looks to the classical tradition for guidance.

    Karl Marx is the ultimate Modern philosopher, because he believed that science, technology, and economic prosperity would ultimately lead to the abolition of all natural differences and distinctions, resulting in a global communist Utopia of complete equality. For Marx, Man’s nature itself will evolve, and the Post-modern communist man will be a different species entirely from the Classical Man.

    Prof. Zuckerberg, the so-called “classicist,” is really a Marxist who enjoys reading ancient literature, but obviously, she does not believe any of it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Man’s nature itself will evolve
     
    As a product of nature, how would it not, unless impeded from doing so artificially?

    Better it evolve like a biome, rather than a parking lot.
  75. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    What sort of gig is “Silicon Valley-based Classics scholar”? I wonder if that means she’s got no permanent employment (couldn’t get a permanent paid position), but teaches the occasional adult education extension (no credit) class and of course is spending a few hours a week volunteering for all the right non-profits.

    Stanford Continuing Studies… wasn’t it Stanford that made famous “Hey, hey, ho, ho, Western Civ has got to go!”?

    Check out the masthead image at her blog site:

    “Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema, “A Reading from Homer” (1885)”

    Seems pretty racist to me. Only a real racist would try to blame it all on other evil racists. Someone should inform the diversity police!

    Read More
  76. @syonredux

    Of course the elephant in the room when she starts talking in this way is that homosexuality was common in both Greece and Rome, which, by modern standards, must mean that Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc. were “born gay”; and why wouldn’t we want to study the Gay Elite White Males who founded Western Civilization? Isn’t that like “homophobic”?
     
    Reminds me of an online challenge from a while back. People were supposed to only read works written by women, or POC, or Gays for a year. My response? Great! I'll spend a year reading Plato, Oscar Wilde, Francis Bacon, Willa Cather (a two-for, woman +Gay), Christopher Marlowe, .....

    “Reminds me of an online challenge from a while back. People were supposed to only read works written by women, or POC, or Gays for a year. My response? Great! I’ll spend a year reading Plato, Oscar Wilde, Francis Bacon, Willa Cather (a two-for, woman +Gay), Christopher Marlowe, …..”

    How many books written by Black published authors do not use Blackness as the main central theme of their book? Even all of Barack Hussein Obama’s books makes Blackness the main course and not the appetizer. It gets boring pretty quickly because it makes Black authors look one dimensional monolithic.

    Read More
  77. @SFG
    Didn't quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don't count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.

    Since I hate waiting

    Didn’t quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don’t count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.

    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..
     
    It's not, that line has been explicitly severed in 1917. (And if we're actually being serious and scholarly about it, in 1761.)
  78. It’s interesting to me that she actually mentions VDH and Roosh V.

    Maybe it’s finally dawning on them that the all Westboro Baptist/Richard Spencer all the time strategy has only “worked” in the “reign in Hell” sense.

    Is this the Region, this the Soil, the Clime,
    Said then the lost Arch-Angel, this the seat
    That we must change for Heav’n, this mournful gloom
    For that celestial light? Be it so, since he
    Who now is Sovran can dispose and bid
    What shall be right: fardest from him is best
    Whom reason hath equald, force hath made supream
    Above his equals. Farewel happy Fields
    Where Joy for ever dwells: Hail horrours, hail
    Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
    Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
    A mind not to be chang’d by Place or Time.
    The mind is its own place, and in it self
    Can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n.
    What matter where, if I be still the same,
    And what I should be, all but less then he
    Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
    We shall be free; th’ Almighty hath not built
    Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
    Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
    To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
    Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav’n.

    - Milton, Paradise Lost, Book 1

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    It’s interesting to me that she actually mentions VDH and Roosh V.
     
    It's because she's writing a book on the relationship between the alt-right and Classics. In fact, if you take iSteve as an example of alt-right writing, there isn't much connection between Classics and Red-Pilling, but as she's got to have those connections to write her book, they must exist. How did she get the idea of writing a book on the alt-right? Maybe it has to do with being the sister of a social media tycoon?
  79. @neutral

    the most elite white man of his generation
     
    Is he though ? As an article here a few days back already mentioned, when Donna Zuckerberg mentions white men, I doubt she counts her brother as being part of that group.

    Jews are white when it’s convenient/beneficial for them to be perceived as white. They are not when it’s not.

    Read More
  80. @German_reader
    Well, she does have a certain point though...someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn't have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn't much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of "progressive" causes.

    Well, she does have a certain point though…someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn’t have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn’t much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of “progressive” causes.

    There’s a lot of pseudo-sophisticated LARPing in the “Alt-Right,” and Spencer is nowhere near the worst offender. Since “The Daily Shoah” is the source of a lot of the “Alt-Right’s” memes, I’ve been sampling its wares for the last few weeks. On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered……

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered……"

    lol, funny. I've only read Spencer's (now deleted) Twitter account and don't intend to delve any further into alt right memes, but your description of it as LARPing seems fitting. Also often left intentionally ambiguous if it's meant somewhat ironically or totally seriously.
    Pretty demented stuff, but to some degree I can understand why it attracts people.
    , @anonitron1
    You're gonna tell me MemeSpouter420 isn't actually an autodidact polyglot genius?
  81. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Why, yeah, actually I can see why everyone considers Stanford such a great school:

    “Western Civilization isn’t dead yet”, The Stanford Review, Op Ed, 2016:

    “…“Hey hey, ho ho! Western culture’s got to go!” In 1988, protestors at Stanford University captured national attention as they demanded the dismantling of the school’s Western Culture requirement…

    …Ultimately, Stanford dropped Plato, Augustine and More to accommodate classes more palatable to student activists…

    …Today, students can fulfill their freshman humanities requirement through a single class called “The Language of Food.

    …We do not know if the protesters of the 1980s envisioned the vacuous syllabi and trivial topics offered to freshmen today… Their movement succeeded in creating an education that validates all students’ narratives equally…

    …while 40 of 50 elite institutions mandated Western Civilization in 1964, the course had “disappeared entirely as a requirement” by 2010…

    …a new anti-Western ethos in higher education that embraces moral and cultural relativism while paradoxically refusing to tolerate dissent…

    …a student body which neither learns nor values the Western tradition…

    We have proposed a two-quarter requirement for all freshmen which will cover history from Ancient Greece to modern America and thinkers from Plato to Douglass…

    …The reaction to our proposal has been hostile, vocal and self-congratulatory. Opponents aren’t just arguing that these two quarters would be a waste of time; they argue that Western Civilization itself is inherently evil. Many of our peers proudly declare that the only reason to study Western Civilization is to deconstruct and subvert it.

    …a student who wrote an opinion piece supporting the inclusion of Western Civilization in a Stanford humanities program decided he could only publish anonymously. Less than an hour after releasing his article, he was suspended from his leadership position in a low-income student advocacy group… the author, a low-income minority student himself, came to us with evidence…

    …revealing of the ideological intolerance that has become the status quo at Stanford…”

    Hang in there guys. Don’t get discouraged. The road goes on forever and the battle never ends.

    Read More
  82. Below are excerpts from an Eidolon article titled “After the Manifesto”, written by Donna Zuckerberg, Silicon Valley-based Classics Scholar, Editor of Eidolon.

    Last week we published a manifesto I wrote urging classicists to take seriously the Alt-Right’s interest in Greek and Roman antiquity. I wanted the discipline to know that these men, these horrible bigoted men, want to claim ownership of the material we study and twist it for their ends.

    The response was overwhelmingly positive … and most of those readers seemed to share my fears and concerns. ….

    … if I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn’t say that considering Classics “the foundation of Western civilization and culture” is “a slippery slope to white supremacy.” Most “slippery slope” arguments are weak, and this one is no exception — what I should have said was that while it is absolutely true that ancient Greece and Rome are foundational to our culture, we need to take care not to glorify that debt as the white supremacists do. We can acknowledge that influence and celebrate it while recognizing how problematic it is.

    …. I received a great deal of abuse. … We encourage authors to engage with readers who offer respectful critique, but when the comments verge on harassment or abuse, we give the author the option to leave them be or delete and report them. As the author of this article, I deleted some comments and kept others … there could be no better proof that my fears were well-founded than the fact that so many people responded with hatred and flagrant anti-Semitism. ….

    I’d be lying if I said these (and the many other similar) comments didn’t have any effect on me. But I’m also grateful to these men for providing material in support of my claim that bigots are deeply invested in the classical tradition. ….

    https://eidolon.pub/after-the-manifesto-a2d772f54868#.utohxkcel

    Read More
  83. ” They are younger than the typical conservative establishment, white, and male.”

    But I’m not white and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don’t exist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie
    ” 'They are younger than the typical conservative establishment, white, and male.'

    But I’m not white and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don’t exist."

    I'm not young or male and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don't exist even less than you do.
  84. @Oy Vey Goyim
    If Blacks wuz kangs...

    ...then Jews wuz Greeks.

    If Blacks wuz kangs…

    …then Jews wuz Greeks.

    Well, there is this bit from 1 Maccabees

    20 ‘Areios king of the Spartans, to Onias the high priest, greetings.

    21 ‘It has been discovered in records regarding the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers, and of the race of Abraham.

    22 Now that this has come to our knowledge, we shall be obliged if you will send us news of your welfare.

    23 Our own message to you is this: your flocks and your possessions are ours, and ours are yours, and we are instructing our envoys to give you a message to this effect.’

    (12:20-23)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers
     
    http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html

    "The uppermost idea with Hellenism is to see things as they really are; the uppermost idea with Hebraism is conduct and obedience. Nothing can do away with this ineffaceable difference; the Greek quarrel with the body and its desires is, that they hinder right thinking, the Hebrew quarrel with them is, that they hinder right acting. "He that keepeth the law, happy is he;" "There is nothing sweeter than to take heed unto the commandments of the Lord;"+ — that is the Hebrew notion of felicity; and, pursued with passion and tenacity, this notion would not let the Hebrew rest till, as is well known, he had, at last, got out of the law a network of prescriptions to enwrap his whole life, to govern every moment of it, every impulse, every action. The Greek notion of felicity, on the other hand, is perfectly conveyed in these words of a great French moralist: "C'est le bonheur des hommes" — when? when they abhor that which is evil? — no; when they exercise themselves in the law of the Lord day and night? — no; when they die daily? — no; when they walk about the New Jerusalem with palms in their hands? — no; but when they think aright, when their thought hits, — "quand ils pensent juste." At the bottom of both the Greek and the Hebrew notion is the desire, native in man, for reason and the will of God, the feeling after the universal order, — in a word, the love of God. But, while Hebraism seizes upon certain plain, capital intimations of the universal order, and rivets itself, one may say, with unequalled grandeur of earnestness and intensity on the study and observance of them, the bent of Hellenism is to follow, with flexible activity, the whole play of the universal order, to be apprehensive of missing any part of it, of sacrificing one part to another, to slip away from resting in this or that intimation of it, however capital. An unclouded clearness of mind, an unimpeded play of thought, is what this bent drives at. The governing idea of Hellenism is spontaneity of consciousness; that of Hebraism, strictness of conscience."

    , @5371
    That sort of "we wuz hellenez" LARPing influences the OT, and the genesis of Jewry itself, far beyond the one forgery you cite.
  85. This seems like a wonderful endorsement of studying the classics on your own terms outside of a formal class.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    This seems like a wonderful endorsement of studying the classics on your own terms outside of a formal class.
     
    Or just be careful in college and make sure the class is taught by an old school professor who loves ancient Greece and Rome.
  86. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mike Sylwester
    One of the articles in the Eidolon website is titled "Giving It Up in the Classroom: Feminist Classics and the Burden of Authority" and is written by Lisl Walsh, who is identified as "an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies. Yoga enthusiast and instructor. Feminist. Uncertified neologician and portmantologist".

    Walsh's article begins:

    A couple years ago, I was in my first few years in a tenure-track position at a small, private liberal arts institution in the Midwest, and I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ....

    ... the students’ assumption of me by the end of the semester, despite any learning they had accomplished along the way, was that I was a do-nothing, know-nothing instructor. And they did not shrink from telling me as much.
     
    At some point, Walsh decided that her problem was that she had "a non-authoritative body" while her students were "a bunch of authoritarians". She decided to assign her "bunch of authoritarians" to themselves design her course's syllabus.

    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ....

    In changing my approach to the classroom, I accepted that, given the body I currently inhabit, students would likely never automatically grant me their trust in my knowledge, experience, authority, etc. up to the level that they “expect” a Professor should have (‘automatic’ is important here: the point is that students don’t realize how much of their perception of authoritativeness is rooted in their willingness to grant an amount of it in the first place).

    But I also accepted that my clutching at the traditional signifiers of authoritativeness — insisting that students not call me by my first name (which I never actually employed, but I know those who do), making sure to mention in class that I had a Ph.D. (some students assumed I did not), dressing more “professionally,” wearing makeup, etc. — might ratchet up students’ impressions of me, but would ultimately never get students to assume that I was worthy of the same amount of automatic respect they would grant to a white masculine body up in front of the room. ....

    So I deal with this ... crisis of authority by using 4 principles I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory:

    1) decentering authority away from the instructor;

    2) empowering students as producers of knowledge;

    3) modeling a democratic/consent-based classroom; and

    4) empowering students as monitors of their peers’ work.

    In every class where I’ve employed these strategies, the evaluations have been more constructive and compassionate, and students have stopped questioning my competence in the field. ....

    I understand that it is impossible to remove the power structures within the classroom, and my decision to recruit the students in structuring their own learning is still an exercise of my power — a power that stems in part from my perceived whiteness, my relative age, and my occupation of space in the room. I try to be transparent about this power dynamic with my students.

    I decided to have the students (help) design their syllabus. The first time I tried this tactic for a traditional Roman history course, I didn’t hand over the reins completely: I had a few learning goals I wanted to keep. Students would need to “know” at least a framework of the dominant narrative of Roman history so that they could use that knowledge to analyze Roman cultural values (or take more specified courses in the future), to familiarize themselves with a variety of primary sources in translation, and, most importantly, to use Roman history to “de-naturalize” their perceptions of the things they consider normal. But as far as other learning goals and assessments went, I left that up to the students. ....

    In decentralizing authority, I have learned also to share the work of the course and be honest about my limits. For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

     

    All this is rationalization, which is one of the psychological defense mechanisms. She’s trying to rationalize away the fact that she’s a lousy teacher. She needs a shrink, not some hapless students just trying to get an education. I expect she’d be an okay kindergarten teacher. Little kids do fine with hippie teachers.

    Read More
  87. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Blank
    You know, just screw these people. I've just had it. I can't play video games without being a racist, I can't watch sports without being a racist, I can't listen to music without being a racist. Fine, whatever.

    Now I can't read Homer or Plato or Plutarch without being a racist. Always, everywhere, whatever I do, I'm somehow scheming to put blacks back in chains and women in the kitchen. No pleasure I can have escapes the stain of my distant ancestors.

    All accounts must be settled, all crooked roads must be made straight, all mountains and valleys must be leveled to achieve perfect justice. Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies. It's an urge so strong it manifests itself even in people who don't believe in God.

    I'm beginning to understand why wise gurus supposedly went to live on mountaintops, away from all human contact.

    They’re fighting a stealth war using culture – the end goal is as deadly as a regular war, just less noisy.

    Read More
  88. Mark Zuckerberg likes the classics. He has a Chinese wife and kid. I think he and Donna will team up to write revisionist history about how Jews and Asians developed Greek-Roman societies that produced the classics.

    Read More
  89. You guys are finished

    You should be scared

    Your “culture” belongs to us and we will erase your history

    Read More
  90. My impression from reading “The Closing of the American Mind” was that Bloom thought the campus identity politics movements of his time had their roots in Nietzsche, and a lot of other German dudes from the early 20th century and 19th century. He was annoyed by moral relativism, and thought it had come as enlightenment ideas and classical Greek ideas had been pushed out.

    Accordingly, I hear Richard Spencer quoting people like Oswald Spengler and Nietzsche. In fact his whole shtick is basically just Nietzsche. So it seems to me (as a layperson) like Ms. Zuckerberg hasn’t really done her homework on the alt-right. She seems to be thinking of things in terms of the canon wars, where the right was into the whole great books thing, and against identity politics.

    Ms. Zuckerberg has a high IQ, but she has been crime-stopped so much that she can’t think straight.

    Read More
  91. Calling Roosh white is really stretching the term white. Yeah I know the US govt classifies him as white but that may change soon. Nothing against Roosh but lets call a spade a spade for lack of a better term.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    If he shaved off his beard he wouldn't look out of place in most of Southern Europe, including Southern France. Roosh is half-Turkish by the way, not totally Persian.
  92. I wonder what thought crimes may be hidden in Revilo Oliver’s scholarly articles (which were almost certainly not thought crimes back then):

    http://lichen.csd.sc.edu/dbcs/index.php?page=person&id=1148

    Read More
  93. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    It’s getting to the point where if you see a college catalogue with a high ratio of female professors, you’d better not go there if you want a decent education.

    Read More
  94. @syonredux

    If Blacks wuz kangs…

    …then Jews wuz Greeks.
     
    Well, there is this bit from 1 Maccabees

    20 'Areios king of the Spartans, to Onias the high priest, greetings.

    21 'It has been discovered in records regarding the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers, and of the race of Abraham.

    22 Now that this has come to our knowledge, we shall be obliged if you will send us news of your welfare.

    23 Our own message to you is this: your flocks and your possessions are ours, and ours are yours, and we are instructing our envoys to give you a message to this effect.'
     
    (12:20-23)

    the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers

    http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html

    “The uppermost idea with Hellenism is to see things as they really are; the uppermost idea with Hebraism is conduct and obedience. Nothing can do away with this ineffaceable difference; the Greek quarrel with the body and its desires is, that they hinder right thinking, the Hebrew quarrel with them is, that they hinder right acting. “He that keepeth the law, happy is he;” “There is nothing sweeter than to take heed unto the commandments of the Lord;”+ — that is the Hebrew notion of felicity; and, pursued with passion and tenacity, this notion would not let the Hebrew rest till, as is well known, he had, at last, got out of the law a network of prescriptions to enwrap his whole life, to govern every moment of it, every impulse, every action. The Greek notion of felicity, on the other hand, is perfectly conveyed in these words of a great French moralist: “C’est le bonheur des hommes” — when? when they abhor that which is evil? — no; when they exercise themselves in the law of the Lord day and night? — no; when they die daily? — no; when they walk about the New Jerusalem with palms in their hands? — no; but when they think aright, when their thought hits, — “quand ils pensent juste.” At the bottom of both the Greek and the Hebrew notion is the desire, native in man, for reason and the will of God, the feeling after the universal order, — in a word, the love of God. But, while Hebraism seizes upon certain plain, capital intimations of the universal order, and rivets itself, one may say, with unequalled grandeur of earnestness and intensity on the study and observance of them, the bent of Hellenism is to follow, with flexible activity, the whole play of the universal order, to be apprehensive of missing any part of it, of sacrificing one part to another, to slip away from resting in this or that intimation of it, however capital. An unclouded clearness of mind, an unimpeded play of thought, is what this bent drives at. The governing idea of Hellenism is spontaneity of consciousness; that of Hebraism, strictness of conscience.”

    Read More
  95. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Paul Yarbles

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny
     
    I know we whiteys are supposed to laugh at lines like these. But lately I've been getting the feeling that many of the people who write such things don't really care about justice or fairness or other noble sentiments. They just hate white people and want to see us "put in our place". And I think this feeling I have is spreading.

    It’s jealousy.

    White privilege is genetic and it’s not “supremacy” it’s simply the ability to create nicer places to live – on our own – without them.

    Read More
  96. @German_reader
    Yes, Hitler didn't really hold the ancient Germanic peoples in high regard whereas he was obsessed with Greco-Roman antiquity (in a Nordicised version, somewhat like Afrocentrists lay claim to ancient Egypt), and Sparta with its subjugation of the helots definitely figured as an example for what was intended after the conquest of Lebensraum. But I'm not sure if it isn't an exgaggeration to claim that classics held the highest position in humanities under Nazism.

    “Yes, Hitler didn’t really hold the ancient Germanic peoples in high regard whereas he was obsessed with Greco-Roman antiquity (in a Nordicised version, ”

    So Adolf Hitler was the first person to spread the false rumor that Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome were majority blond societies. This false rumor spread like a wildfire in the White Nationalist community. And now White Nationalists believe the average Ancient Greek and average Ancient Roman was as blond as the first German terrorist that John McClane kills in Die Hard.

    https://youtu.be/Pz_URtSSPgw

    Read More
  97. @German_reader
    Yes, Hitler didn't really hold the ancient Germanic peoples in high regard whereas he was obsessed with Greco-Roman antiquity (in a Nordicised version, somewhat like Afrocentrists lay claim to ancient Egypt), and Sparta with its subjugation of the helots definitely figured as an example for what was intended after the conquest of Lebensraum. But I'm not sure if it isn't an exgaggeration to claim that classics held the highest position in humanities under Nazism.

    Well, Greco-Roman classics are one of the few fields of study that is guaranteed to focus on a body of texts by non-Jewish writers. That probably counted for something under a regime that spent considerable effort in de-legitimizing the work of Jewish authors and anyone who used the work of Jewish authors even in fields like physics.

    Read More
  98. @Whiskey
    Just goes to show you. When say, the sister of one of the most powerful, influential, and wealthy men in the world can't celebrate his achievement and brag on just how awesome White people are; but instead has to go on a rant about how awful White men are, well it says it all.

    It says that women ARE really enemies, of most White men (even their brothers) if they are not involved in either their kids or Kawai stuff like Japanese women. IMHO that self-sorting into enemy status is due to a desire to compete against White men; social approval from non-White women; and resentment of the men in and around their life for being beta. Does his own sister really despise Mark Zuckerberg for being a beta male? Evidence says, yes.

    After all, if the woman in question really wanted to talk about the Alt-Right and the Classics, she might mention that the Roman and Hellenistic world ruled considerable amounts of non-Europeans; that Jewish monotheism and Greek Humanism combined to create classical Christianity. That Jesus himself is a semi-Socrates in his method of teaching. That the classical world moved fairly rapidly from polytheism to monotheism Christianity. In short, argue that yes the Classical World was in fact, quite awesome and White. But was open to things from other peoples.

    Instead, its just more denigrating White men. Her own brother did something pretty impressive, and she can't even brag on him. Not a little. Or talk about how indeed White men are awesome. Its all about how awful we are.

    Conclusion: there is nothing women will not punish in men who are beta. Nothing.

    LEFT-WING women, Whiskey!

    I sent this message to a conservative friend today:

    “I think the greatest threat to our country has been, is and will be liberal white women. If you think about it, you will realize they have supported and advanced every single policy, movement and individual that’s been most destructive to our country. I don’t understand it. The conservative women I know are salt of the earth, principled and strong. But something about liberalism appeals to the worst in the worst of women.”

    Read More
  99. Off-topic,

    Lucia Festival in Sweden. Quite beautiful:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Off-topic,

    Lucia Festival in Sweden. Quite beautiful:"

    It's a good thing there are no MENA Muslim men in that Swedish church . They would get the urge to rape looking at all of those pretty blonde females. They are not used to seeing so much blondeness back in their inbred desert countries.
    , @Bubba
    Nice video, but this is what Lucia 2025 will look like if the Swedes keep up with the African immigration..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxhhF_nHxIs
    , @Fredrik
    There are strong forces in action trying to destroy Lucia. This year black boys were used as Lucia and there are other things going on.

    War on normal people must not stop!
  100. @newrouter
    "A specter is haunting the Internet — the specter of the “alt-right.”"

    hahaha

    "A SPECTER is haunting Eastern Europe: the specter of what in the West is called "dissent.""

    http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML

    The phrase originated as the famous opening line of Marx’s Communist Manifesto.

    A specter is haunting Europe — the specter of Communism.

    Of course Marx was arguing that communism was the inevitable result of the progression of world herstory. Seems that Zuck’s sis isn’t that well-read a classicist, unless she intended the reference to be ironic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    I said elsewhere she's being lazy. But it shows you what phrases have currency in their world.

    She doesn't want the "specter" of the alt-right to win, though of course Marx said his communism would win, no matter what. (I don't believe him, elsewise why would he try so hard to subvert the existing order? Why would he try to ameliorate the workers' lives? The worse the better, according to him. But I digress.) She puts herself in the mindset of a Good Burgher, aghast at the thick-necked mass of proles demanding dinner. Interesting, isn't it?

    Yet more unintentional reaction from so-called progressives. They could go on winning for millennia and still fancy themselves the outsider rebels taking on the Man. Even if their Man is a bunch of internet trolls.

    , @Hibernian
    "Seems that Zuck’s sis isn’t that well-read a classicist, unless she intended the reference to be ironic."

    Could be that a "learn enough to pass the test and then forget it" type can be an Ivy League PhD these days.
  101. @syonredux

    Well, she does have a certain point though…someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn’t have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn’t much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of “progressive” causes.
     
    There's a lot of pseudo-sophisticated LARPing in the "Alt-Right," and Spencer is nowhere near the worst offender. Since "The Daily Shoah" is the source of a lot of the "Alt-Right's" memes, I've been sampling its wares for the last few weeks. On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered......

    “On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered……”

    lol, funny. I’ve only read Spencer’s (now deleted) Twitter account and don’t intend to delve any further into alt right memes, but your description of it as LARPing seems fitting. Also often left intentionally ambiguous if it’s meant somewhat ironically or totally seriously.
    Pretty demented stuff, but to some degree I can understand why it attracts people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jasper Been
    Last I checked, his Twitter account was re-instated and he's back at it.
  102. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Lucia Festival in Sweden. Quite beautiful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl6o4mG25Ec

    “Off-topic,

    Lucia Festival in Sweden. Quite beautiful:”

    It’s a good thing there are no MENA Muslim men in that Swedish church . They would get the urge to rape looking at all of those pretty blonde females. They are not used to seeing so much blondeness back in their inbred desert countries.

    Read More
  103. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    OT

    The NYT is too (((white))):

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Ah yes,

    Revolution, Devour Thine Own!
    , @Forbes
    The most surprising fact: 21 sports reporters! Considering the sports coverage by the NYT, I'd have guessed half that many.
  104. @syonredux

    Well, she does have a certain point though…someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn’t have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn’t much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of “progressive” causes.
     
    There's a lot of pseudo-sophisticated LARPing in the "Alt-Right," and Spencer is nowhere near the worst offender. Since "The Daily Shoah" is the source of a lot of the "Alt-Right's" memes, I've been sampling its wares for the last few weeks. On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered......

    You’re gonna tell me MemeSpouter420 isn’t actually an autodidact polyglot genius?

    Read More
  105. @SFG
    They're not going to win--the stuff's in the public domain and, thanks, at least in part, to (((James Loeb))), there are cheap classics editions all over the place.

    There'll be Plutarch and Homer way past when the last SJW passes away. If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.

    If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.

    My impression is that the Chinese just aren’t very interested in Western high culture. It’s understandable they don’t care about the writings of dead white males; it’s not like we’re interested in dead Chinese males except Sun Tzu as a low-middlebrow self-help book that comes and goes.

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way. Like, in an anime, kawaii William Shakespeare will show up and do something silly. Or all the characters will be named after ones from The Three Musketeers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlQZyTF_LY

    Would that we were so superficial in our interest!
    , @Chrisnonymous
    No mention of the Japanese superficial interest in European history can be complete without mention of Paris Syndrome or Thermae Romae!

    Paris syndrome (French: Syndrome de Paris, Japanese: パリ症候群, Pari shōkōgun) is a transient psychological disorder exhibited by some individuals when visiting or vacationing to Paris, as a result of extreme shock resulting from their finding out that Paris is not what they had expected it to be.
     
    I expect cases of Paris Syndrome to increase when Notre Dame is turned into a mosque.

    Thermae Romae is a Japanese comic about a Roman who dives to the bottom of his Roman bath and exits into a Japanese hot spring, made into a live action film.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1kO2qdRKE

    The unfortunate truth about the Chinese is that they don't seem to be interested in much of anything except money and status signalling. There is plenty of demand for western things, like whisky, which is adversely affecting the market for the rest of us.

    I think there is a lot more interest in Chinese history in the West. The problem is that Chinese composition is not very accessible to westerners. Sun Tzu has been successful not because of its topic but because of its aphoristic style.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I'm not sure about that. One of my fundamental influences was actually, almost at random, Sophocles. There are universal notions of hubris and heroism which speak to me even in a different culture. Which is also why Zuckenberg(2)'s goals seem extremely pointless - I'm not sure how she can accomplish anything beyond trying to negate the very message of the classics, which were not at all screeds of equality and which specifically gained their impact for establishing norms.

    Take the behavior of women, for example. Antigone can be seen as a complex evaluation of a defiant woman but that is special only when the expected behavior of her sex is mild and therefore her attitude is justified out of love for her family, to the extent of even denying herself. That is indeed glorious because she violates the norm out of love for a greater norm(loyalty of family); none of this tries to praise the self-interested motives of progressives.

    Or Lady MacBeth - her murderous conduct is specifically contrasted with the life giving function of the feminine impulse, and therefore it is seen as something particularly poisoned and disturbing. Such behavior is shocking only because it is atypical, the impact is lost if it is normalized.

    Chinese stories tend to punish those who violate the norm even further, denying them sometimes even the memory of heroism, but ultimately, the classics do not differ in that they expect that the world to be ordered along natural lines, beyond human comprehension and condemning human hubris. I don't see how someone could read anything modern into the classics.
    , @mobi

    My impression is that the Chinese just aren’t very interested in Western high culture. It’s understandable they don’t care about the writings of dead white males
     
    It seems they care:

    "We want to learn from the British model," said Daokui Li, a member China's upper chamber or `House of Lords' (CPPCC) and a professor at Beijing's Tsinghua University.
    "Today's leaders in China are looking carefully at the British style of political change over the last 400 years

    ..."England went through incredible changes: a war against the US; wars against France; wars against Germany twice, the rise and decline of empire; and universal suffrage. Yet society remained stable through all this turmoil, with the same institutions and political structure. We think the reason is respect for tradition, yet willingness to make changes when needed."
    "It is a contrast with France. We know from De Toqueville's study of the Ancien Regime that if you don't do reforms, you will end up with a revolution, and that is what will happen in China if we don't reform in time,"

    ...Professor Li said the 18th Century Irish philosopher Edmund Burke is now all the rage in Chinese universities, studied for his critique of violent revolution, and esteemed as the prophet of stability through timely but controlled change.

    ...Hobbes too is sweeping China's intelligentsia, and so is Hannah Arendt, the philosopher of the twin totalitarian movements Left and Right. It is a ferment of ideas. Mao is out, even if the Communist Party is still coy about saying this too publicly.
    "We went through the Revolution of 1911 when we overthrew the emperor, then the May 4th Revolution of 1919, then the Communist Revolution of 1949, and then the Cultural Revolution. We're looking back at our history, and we are tired of this."
     
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/10294488/China-embraces-British-Model-ditching-Mao-for-Edmund-Burke.html
  106. @Steve Sailer
    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.

    I can’t remember off the top of my head, but there was another bloody and pointless war where Athens imposed democracy on some small island for no good reason.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Maybe this (famous from Thuycidides' Melian dialogue):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Melos
    Though the Athenians didn't bring democracy there but rather killed and enslaved the inhabitants. They did however impose pro-Athenian democracies on "allies" during the era of the Delian league/Peloponnesian war.
  107. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mike Sylwester
    One of the articles in the Eidolon website is titled "Giving It Up in the Classroom: Feminist Classics and the Burden of Authority" and is written by Lisl Walsh, who is identified as "an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies. Yoga enthusiast and instructor. Feminist. Uncertified neologician and portmantologist".

    Walsh's article begins:

    A couple years ago, I was in my first few years in a tenure-track position at a small, private liberal arts institution in the Midwest, and I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ....

    ... the students’ assumption of me by the end of the semester, despite any learning they had accomplished along the way, was that I was a do-nothing, know-nothing instructor. And they did not shrink from telling me as much.
     
    At some point, Walsh decided that her problem was that she had "a non-authoritative body" while her students were "a bunch of authoritarians". She decided to assign her "bunch of authoritarians" to themselves design her course's syllabus.

    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ....

    In changing my approach to the classroom, I accepted that, given the body I currently inhabit, students would likely never automatically grant me their trust in my knowledge, experience, authority, etc. up to the level that they “expect” a Professor should have (‘automatic’ is important here: the point is that students don’t realize how much of their perception of authoritativeness is rooted in their willingness to grant an amount of it in the first place).

    But I also accepted that my clutching at the traditional signifiers of authoritativeness — insisting that students not call me by my first name (which I never actually employed, but I know those who do), making sure to mention in class that I had a Ph.D. (some students assumed I did not), dressing more “professionally,” wearing makeup, etc. — might ratchet up students’ impressions of me, but would ultimately never get students to assume that I was worthy of the same amount of automatic respect they would grant to a white masculine body up in front of the room. ....

    So I deal with this ... crisis of authority by using 4 principles I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory:

    1) decentering authority away from the instructor;

    2) empowering students as producers of knowledge;

    3) modeling a democratic/consent-based classroom; and

    4) empowering students as monitors of their peers’ work.

    In every class where I’ve employed these strategies, the evaluations have been more constructive and compassionate, and students have stopped questioning my competence in the field. ....

    I understand that it is impossible to remove the power structures within the classroom, and my decision to recruit the students in structuring their own learning is still an exercise of my power — a power that stems in part from my perceived whiteness, my relative age, and my occupation of space in the room. I try to be transparent about this power dynamic with my students.

    I decided to have the students (help) design their syllabus. The first time I tried this tactic for a traditional Roman history course, I didn’t hand over the reins completely: I had a few learning goals I wanted to keep. Students would need to “know” at least a framework of the dominant narrative of Roman history so that they could use that knowledge to analyze Roman cultural values (or take more specified courses in the future), to familiarize themselves with a variety of primary sources in translation, and, most importantly, to use Roman history to “de-naturalize” their perceptions of the things they consider normal. But as far as other learning goals and assessments went, I left that up to the students. ....

    In decentralizing authority, I have learned also to share the work of the course and be honest about my limits. For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

     

    I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ….

    Had a prof like her, and like her, after the shit evaluations came through, her excuses bled through her pedagogy.

    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ….

    That body thing again. What’s up with that? Body lives matter? Paging Mr. Coates.

    “expect” …. “know”

    When they put mundane words in ironic parenthetics, you know they’re hopeless.

    For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

    Fucking lazy is what your are, like half the associate profs on any campus. Overwhelmed with what? Having to grade two assignments the whole semester? High school English teachers do that and much more in less than a month.

    Read More
  108. @Lot
    I can't remember off the top of my head, but there was another bloody and pointless war where Athens imposed democracy on some small island for no good reason.

    Maybe this (famous from Thuycidides’ Melian dialogue):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Melos

    Though the Athenians didn’t bring democracy there but rather killed and enslaved the inhabitants. They did however impose pro-Athenian democracies on “allies” during the era of the Delian league/Peloponnesian war.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    That's right, it was Paros, a member of the Delian League. This is the only short reference to the episode on wikipedia, I recall a longer description online but can't find it.

    In 410 BC, Athenian general Theramenes discovered that Paros was governed by an oligarchy; he deposed the oligarchy and restored the democracy.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paros#Antiquity
    , @Lot
    That's right, it was Paros, a member of the Delian League. This is the only short reference to the episode on wikipedia, I recall a longer description online but can't find it.

    In 410 BC, Athenian general Theramenes discovered that Paros was governed by an oligarchy; he deposed the oligarchy and restored the democracy.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paros#Antiquity
  109. @snorlax

    If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.
     
    My impression is that the Chinese just aren't very interested in Western high culture. It's understandable they don't care about the writings of dead white males; it's not like we're interested in dead Chinese males except Sun Tzu as a low-middlebrow self-help book that comes and goes.

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way. Like, in an anime, kawaii William Shakespeare will show up and do something silly. Or all the characters will be named after ones from The Three Musketeers.

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlQZyTF_LY

    Would that we were so superficial in our interest!

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax
    I was thinking more about literature, but yes, the East Asians do love classical music.
    , @Foreign Expert
    There are so many performances of Beethoven's 9th around New Years that the Japanese talk about 9th pollution.
  110. @BenKenobi
    I've a controversial idea, on top of another one, of course.

    Whereas the Zionists revived Hebrew as a language for their nation, we could revive Latin as the language for Our Fair Republic.

    > Whereas the Zionists revived Hebrew as a language for their nation, we could revive Latin as the language for Our Fair Republic

    hey…. stop stealing an idea i’ve been trying to push for 3 years!

    what’s the MOST LIKELY place where you could actually pull off – and a few hundred bucks as a pushstart) to start a Latin-only kindergarden (which is what it would take)?

    A hilltop in Samaria.

    Talk to the guys at the Shomron Regional Council. They are QUITE SYMPATHETIC to Euro Nativist nationalism.

    U.Kentucky has a number of guys who can actually speak the language.

    We’ll give them an open-ended visa, if they bring us some hot bluegrass picking once or twice a year.

    Deal?

    Read More
  111. @Desiderius

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlQZyTF_LY

    Would that we were so superficial in our interest!

    I was thinking more about literature, but yes, the East Asians do love classical music.

    Read More
  112. Despite her claims to being a scholar, a classicist, etc., au fond, Zuckerberg is just another hysterical woman.

    Read More
  113. I wonder what Prof. Dr. Zuckerberg would make of Juvenal’s complaint about immigration -

    Jampridem Syrus in Tyberim defluxit Orontes
    et linguam et mores et cum tibicine chordas
    obliquas nec non gentilia tympana secum
    vexit et ad circum iussas prostare puellas.

    [Sat. iij.61-5]

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    I cannot abide, Quirites, a Rome of Greeks; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Greece? The Syrian Orontes has long since poured into the Tiber, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

     

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek, then note what a small fraction actually comes from Iberia, rivers of Amerind blood having long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet:

    I cannot abide, Quirites, an America of Hispanics; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Iberia? Amerind rivers have long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

    , @syonredux
    Since I hate waiting

    I cannot abide, Quirites, a Rome of Greeks; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Greece? The Syrian Orontes has long since poured into the Tiber, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

     

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek, then note what a small fraction actually comes from Iberia, rivers of Amerind blood having long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet:

    I cannot abide, Quirites, an America of Hispanics; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Iberia? Amerind rivers have long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings
    , @German_reader
    Probably claim that it satirizes xenophobes (if I'm not mistaken there really is such an interpretation of that poem).
  114. the most elite white man of his generation

    Actually, he’s (((not))).

    as measured in gigabucks

    Thanks for clarifying that.

    as it was in Nazi Germany

    Yes, no discussion of the Classics the alt-right is complete without mentioning Nazi Germany.

    Engage them on their assumed definitions of “foundation,” “Western,” “civilization,” and “culture.”

    “LOL” — or Bill Clinton on his definition of “is”.

    I could continue to make fun of this woman, but it’s a bit too easy — so I’ll just get to the point: she’s stupid to the point of being infantile — and lying (“white supremacy”) to the point of being evil — not to mention her sophomoric, hand-wringing prose.

    Anyway, re the Classics, particularly The Aeneid and The Odyssey, I highly recommend the translations by Robert Fitzgerald, which I think are superb — even if he is a white man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    the most elite white man of his generation

    Actually, he’s (((not))).
     
    At the office of racial classification:

    STORMFRONT guy: Zuckerberg's not White

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy; he's Whiter than a vanilla milkshake! Next.
  115. Funny that she goes after Milo Yiannopolous and Roosh, who are more eastern by heritage. The former is Jewish and the latter Persian/Armenian.

    The real founders of the so-called alt-right are more “obscure” types like Sam Francis and F. Roger Devlin, both of whom were raised Catholic IIRC. I encourage discriminating readers to ignore the background noise and seek out the gems, which are there to be found, and will outlast even Donna’s brother’s little digital empire.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Funny that she goes after Milo Yiannopolous and Roosh, who are more eastern by heritage. The former is Jewish and the latter Persian/Armenian.
     
    According to Ethni-Celebs, Yiannopoulos is Greek and Irish on his father's side

    http://ethnicelebs.com/milo-yiannopoulos
    , @syonredux
    And it seems that there is some doubt as to whether Yiannopoulos is even partially Jewish:

    Milo has said that his mother, or maternal grandmother, is Jewish. It is not clear if that is accurate.
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/milo-yiannopoulos
    , @PV van der Byl
    Devlin was certainly raised Catholic. But, Sam Francis? I'd be surprised.
  116. I’ll just put this out there: Plato and Aristotle, not to mention Homer and a bunch more poets and dramatists, would have fucking despised Ms. Zuckerberg. And, having read and understood them, I woud agree with them over her every single time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Yeah, I have to agree with you about that: I'm sure that every author studied in the Classics would have despised Ms. Zuckerberg and what she stands for.

    Really, how is she any different from the anti-intellectuals she looks down on? Who, reading and understanding the Classics, would dismiss and belittle them as she does, or take away from them the unutterably stupid and trivial story she is telling about race and gender?

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.

    Western Civilization itself becomes pearls before swine.

  117. I am a white man and a european-american with an interest in classical antiquity. The hijacking of the field of Classics by Donna Zuckerberg and her ilk is an act of cultural appropriation.

    Certainly when it comes to European history, we have every right to say:

    This is ours. Not yours. Ours.

    Read More
  118. @German_reader
    Well, she does have a certain point though...someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn't have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn't much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of "progressive" causes.

    Spencer probably understands the thinking of someone like Plato, Aristotle, or Livy better than Ms. Zuckerberg does. And in turn, they would understand Spencer. Zuckerberg they would merely view as a mad woman.

    Read More
  119. @Crawfurdmuir
    I wonder what Prof. Dr. Zuckerberg would make of Juvenal's complaint about immigration -

    Jampridem Syrus in Tyberim defluxit Orontes
    et linguam et mores et cum tibicine chordas
    obliquas nec non gentilia tympana secum
    vexit et ad circum iussas prostare puellas.

    [Sat. iij.61-5]

    I cannot abide, Quirites, a Rome of Greeks; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Greece? The Syrian Orontes has long since poured into the Tiber, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek, then note what a small fraction actually comes from Iberia, rivers of Amerind blood having long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet:

    I cannot abide, Quirites, an America of Hispanics; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Iberia? Amerind rivers have long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek
     
    Juvenal was an intellectual from a modest Italian family, and he was in economic competition with Greeks, as well as Romans who were proud they had been expensively educated in Greece. But the reference to "The Syrian Orontes" makes it sound as if he is referring to Greek-speaking immigrants from Roman Syria.
  120. @German_reader
    "could experience a renaissance and be propelled to a position of ultimate prestige within the humanities during the Trump administration, as it was in Nazi Germany in the 1930s"

    I'm not even sure this is true, Hitler was a great admirer of the Greeks and Romans (and of certain individuals like Julian the apostate), but other Nazis had more narrowly Nordicist conceptions with a focus on ancient Germanic peoples like the Goths, so Nazism's stance towards Greco-Roman antiquity was probably somewhat ambivalent.
    That Zuckerberg woman comes across as pretty unpleasant and rather unscholarly with her open call for politicization of her discipline...she's probably on to something however. Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it's not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration...I increasingly feel myself drawn into that direction.

    Nazis did co-opt or promote antiquity to some extent. You can see in Hitler’s plans for Welthauptstadt Germania, the future Reich capital, that his mundane pan-European design included neo-Classical elements.

    I think the issue, which Dr. Z conveniently ignores, is that virtually all scholarly disciplines were Nazified under the Nazis. Nazi Classics didn’t exist because the Classics were important to Nazis, it existed because Nazis infiltrated and controlled academia.

    The other thing she ignores is the way Classics was a much larger part of European intellectual life in the 30s. (You can see from this Arion article, “Lycurgus in Leaflets and Lectures: The Weiße Rose and Classics at Munich University, 1941–45″, that (a) there were Classicists opposed to Nazism and (b) they thought Classical themes were ubiquitous enough among the educated to be used against the Nazis.) What she’s arguing for now isn’t a defense of Classics against misuse but for continued control of Classics by an elite minority of scholars.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    it existed because Nazis infiltrated and controlled academia
     
    And what groups does this description fit in the US? Remember, SJWs always project.
    , @guest
    "Monumental architecture" of the Third Reich period was all neoclassical, internationally. Everyone was "co-opting" it. You saw the same thing in Washington, London, Paris, Moscow, and, yes, Berlin. There's nothing particularly Nazi about it, except that the most famous neoclassical architect of the era was Albert Speer.

    This has gone down the memory hole, for whatever reason. If I had to guess I'd say it was a conspiracy of the International Style, that ugly, modernist, box-obsessed cabal that took over the architectural world in the previous century. Anything you can get associated in the public consciousness with Nazis you can destroy I'm the post-WWII West

    , @5371
    [virtually all scholarly disciplines were Nazified under the Nazis]

    This is not remotely true. In classics there were only a few desultory attempts to write ancient history as a reflection of racial ideology. The so-called Deutsche Physik was a negligible and marginal presence in physics. So it was across the great majority of academia.
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Nazis did co-opt or promote antiquity to some extent."

    So did the Founding Fathers. That's why we have a President with veto power, and a Senate, whose chambers are even decorated with fasces. To say nothing of our public architecture from 1787 through about 1940.
  121. @Bill P
    Funny that she goes after Milo Yiannopolous and Roosh, who are more eastern by heritage. The former is Jewish and the latter Persian/Armenian.

    The real founders of the so-called alt-right are more "obscure" types like Sam Francis and F. Roger Devlin, both of whom were raised Catholic IIRC. I encourage discriminating readers to ignore the background noise and seek out the gems, which are there to be found, and will outlast even Donna's brother's little digital empire.

    Funny that she goes after Milo Yiannopolous and Roosh, who are more eastern by heritage. The former is Jewish and the latter Persian/Armenian.

    According to Ethni-Celebs, Yiannopoulos is Greek and Irish on his father’s side

    http://ethnicelebs.com/milo-yiannopoulos

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    His claim to be Jewish struck me as (humorous) flame.
  122. @Crawfurdmuir
    I wonder what Prof. Dr. Zuckerberg would make of Juvenal's complaint about immigration -

    Jampridem Syrus in Tyberim defluxit Orontes
    et linguam et mores et cum tibicine chordas
    obliquas nec non gentilia tympana secum
    vexit et ad circum iussas prostare puellas.

    [Sat. iij.61-5]

    Since I hate waiting

    I cannot abide, Quirites, a Rome of Greeks; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Greece? The Syrian Orontes has long since poured into the Tiber, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek, then note what a small fraction actually comes from Iberia, rivers of Amerind blood having long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet:

    I cannot abide, Quirites, an America of Hispanics; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Iberia? Amerind rivers have long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Since I hate waiting
     
    You're even more impatient than I am. Can you really not wait more than seven minutes for Steve to approve your comment? Or are you just bidding to be put on the auto-approve list (I'm assuming one exists given the pattern of new comments appearing)? The I hate waiting shtick was funny the first few times I saw it, but that was a while ago. Now the double posts are just a nuisance.
  123. @syonredux

    He first read the Aeneid while he was studying Latin in high school, and he recounted the story of Aeneas’s quest and his desire to build a city that, he said, quoting the text in English, “knows no boundaries in time and greatness.” Zuckerberg has always had a classical streak, his friends and family told me. (Sean Parker, a close friend of Zuckerberg, who served as Facebook’s president when the company was incorporated, said, “There’s a part of him that—it was present even when he was twenty, twenty-one—this kind of imperial tendency. He was really into Greek odysseys and all that stuff.”) At a product meeting a couple of years ago, Zuckerberg quoted some lines from the Aeneid.

    On the phone, Zuckerberg tried to remember the Latin of particular verses. Later that night, he IM’d to tell me two phrases he remembered, giving me the Latin and then the English: “fortune favors the bold” and “a nation/empire without bound.”
     
    "Daughter, dismiss thy fears; to thy desire
    The fates of thine are fix'd, and stand entire.
    Thou shalt behold thy wish'd Lavinian walls;
    And, ripe for heav'n, when fate Aeneas calls,
    Then shalt thou bear him up, sublime, to me:
    No councils have revers'd my firm decree.
    And, lest new fears disturb thy happy state,
    Know, I have search'd the mystic rolls of Fate:
    Thy son (nor is th' appointed season far)
    In Italy shall wage successful war,
    Shall tame fierce nations in the bloody field,
    And sov'reign laws impose, and cities build,
    Till, after ev'ry foe subdued, the sun
    Thrice thro' the signs his annual race shall run:
    This is his time prefix'd. Ascanius then,
    Now call'd Iulus, shall begin his reign.
    He thirty rolling years the crown shall wear,
    Then from Lavinium shall the seat transfer,
    And, with hard labor, Alba Longa build.
    The throne with his succession shall be fill'd
    Three hundred circuits more: then shall be seen
    Ilia the fair, a priestess and a queen,
    Who, full of Mars, in time, with kindly throes,
    Shall at a birth two goodly boys disclose.
    The royal babes a tawny wolf shall drain:
    Then Romulus his grandsire's throne shall gain,
    Of martial tow'rs the founder shall become,
    The people Romans call, the city Rome.
    To them no bounds of empire I assign,
    Nor term of years to their immortal line.

    Ev'n haughty Juno, who, with endless broils,
    Earth, seas, and heav'n, and Jove himself turmoils;
    At length aton'd, her friendly pow'r shall join,
    To cherish and advance the Trojan line.
    The subject world shall Rome's dominion own,
    And, prostrate, shall adore the nation of the gown.
    An age is ripening in revolving fate
    When Troy shall overturn the Grecian state,
    And sweet revenge her conqu'ring sons shall call,
    To crush the people that conspir'd her fall.
    Then Caesar from the Julian stock shall rise,
    Whose empire ocean, and whose fame the skies
    Alone shall bound; whom, fraught with eastern spoils,
    Our heav'n, the just reward of human toils,
    Securely shall repay with rites divine;
    And incense shall ascend before his sacred shrine.
    Then dire debate and impious war shall cease,
    And the stern age be soften'd into peace:
    Then banish'd Faith shall once again return,
    And Vestal fires in hallow'd temples burn;
    And Remus with Quirinus shall sustain
    The righteous laws, and fraud and force restrain.
    Janus himself before his fane shall wait,
    And keep the dreadful issues of his gate,
    With bolts and iron bars: within remains
    Imprison'd Fury, bound in brazen chains;
    High on a trophy rais'd, of useless arms,
    He sits, and threats the world with vain alarms."

    Aeneid, Dryden's translation

    “Fortuna audentes iuvat”, Fortune favors the bold. I have been reluctant to use that one since I finally read The Aenid. In the poem it was uttered by Turnus, as he led the Italian coalition into battle against the Trojans. He lost the battle and was only saved from immediate death by being ignominiously tricked into deserting the fight by Juno who wanted to save his life. Aeneas eventually caught up with him anyway and hacked him up.
    in Zuck’s case Fortune shows that who she really favors are the bold, immoral and ruthless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    in Zuck’s case Fortune shows that who she really favors are the bold, immoral and ruthless.
     
    Fortuna is nothing is not fickle.

    Nemesis, Nemesis not so much. When she gets her claws in you, she doesn't let go. Zuck won't be able to dodge her snares forever.
  124. A lot of academia now believes in nothing but false and ridiculous nonsense. It is well worth reading western literature on its’ own terms and not through the distorted lens of left-wing critics and theorists.

    I remember reading “Heart of Darkness”, and then reading the “scholarly” commentary and notes that accompanied it in the Penguin edition. It was obvious from a plain reading of the novella, and from what I knew about the author, that the critics had gotten the whole thing wrong. Their interpretation was nothing but re-heated marxist anti-imperialism. The main thrust of the book wasn’t even to do with imperialism, and certainly wasn’t a critique of it as such. The modern critics didn’t understand the story, because they couldn’t understand a man like Conrad or the world he lived in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The main thrust of the book wasn’t even to do with imperialism
     
    It wasn't?
  125. @Bill P
    Funny that she goes after Milo Yiannopolous and Roosh, who are more eastern by heritage. The former is Jewish and the latter Persian/Armenian.

    The real founders of the so-called alt-right are more "obscure" types like Sam Francis and F. Roger Devlin, both of whom were raised Catholic IIRC. I encourage discriminating readers to ignore the background noise and seek out the gems, which are there to be found, and will outlast even Donna's brother's little digital empire.

    And it seems that there is some doubt as to whether Yiannopoulos is even partially Jewish:

    Milo has said that his mother, or maternal grandmother, is Jewish. It is not clear if that is accurate.

    http://ethnicelebs.com/milo-yiannopoulos

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Some Jews even tried to weasel out of Monica Lewinsky. They claimed she was Polish!
    , @Jefferson
    "And it seems that there is some doubt as to whether Yiannopoulos is even partially Jewish:"

    Wikipedia has Milo Yiannopoulos listed as having Jewish ancestry.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Yiannopoulos#External_links

    Milo Yiannopoulos is the George Zimmerman of Jews, no Jewish Social Justice Warrior wants to claim him, Milo is an Honorary Goy. Hispanics don't want to claim George, they all say the White Gringos can have him. George Zimmerman is an Honorary White Gringo.

  126. @snorlax

    If nothing else, Chinese scholars will be trying to understand where we went wrong to avoid repeating our mistakes.
     
    My impression is that the Chinese just aren't very interested in Western high culture. It's understandable they don't care about the writings of dead white males; it's not like we're interested in dead Chinese males except Sun Tzu as a low-middlebrow self-help book that comes and goes.

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way. Like, in an anime, kawaii William Shakespeare will show up and do something silly. Or all the characters will be named after ones from The Three Musketeers.

    No mention of the Japanese superficial interest in European history can be complete without mention of Paris Syndrome or Thermae Romae!

    Paris syndrome (French: Syndrome de Paris, Japanese: パリ症候群, Pari shōkōgun) is a transient psychological disorder exhibited by some individuals when visiting or vacationing to Paris, as a result of extreme shock resulting from their finding out that Paris is not what they had expected it to be.

    I expect cases of Paris Syndrome to increase when Notre Dame is turned into a mosque.

    Thermae Romae is a Japanese comic about a Roman who dives to the bottom of his Roman bath and exits into a Japanese hot spring, made into a live action film.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K1kO2qdRKE

    The unfortunate truth about the Chinese is that they don’t seem to be interested in much of anything except money and status signalling. There is plenty of demand for western things, like whisky, which is adversely affecting the market for the rest of us.

    I think there is a lot more interest in Chinese history in the West. The problem is that Chinese composition is not very accessible to westerners. Sun Tzu has been successful not because of its topic but because of its aphoristic style.

    Read More
  127. @Bugg
    Took Ms. Big Brains all of 2 paragraphs to break out the Adolfian "N"' word. Which means she doesn't really have an argument beside....feelings. Child, please.

    She went down this road because she had nothing but empty accusations to prop up her death cult ideology.

    Typical white liberal female.

    Read More
  128. @Alfa158
    "Fortuna audentes iuvat", Fortune favors the bold. I have been reluctant to use that one since I finally read The Aenid. In the poem it was uttered by Turnus, as he led the Italian coalition into battle against the Trojans. He lost the battle and was only saved from immediate death by being ignominiously tricked into deserting the fight by Juno who wanted to save his life. Aeneas eventually caught up with him anyway and hacked him up.
    in Zuck's case Fortune shows that who she really favors are the bold, immoral and ruthless.

    in Zuck’s case Fortune shows that who she really favors are the bold, immoral and ruthless.

    Fortuna is nothing is not fickle.

    Nemesis, Nemesis not so much. When she gets her claws in you, she doesn’t let go. Zuck won’t be able to dodge her snares forever.

    Read More
  129. @Desiderius
    It's interesting to me that she actually mentions VDH and Roosh V.

    Maybe it's finally dawning on them that the all Westboro Baptist/Richard Spencer all the time strategy has only "worked" in the "reign in Hell" sense.

    Is this the Region, this the Soil, the Clime,
    Said then the lost Arch-Angel, this the seat
    That we must change for Heav'n, this mournful gloom
    For that celestial light? Be it so, since he
    Who now is Sovran can dispose and bid
    What shall be right: fardest from him is best
    Whom reason hath equald, force hath made supream
    Above his equals. Farewel happy Fields
    Where Joy for ever dwells: Hail horrours, hail
    Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
    Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
    A mind not to be chang'd by Place or Time.
    The mind is its own place, and in it self
    Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
    What matter where, if I be still the same,
    And what I should be, all but less then he
    Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
    We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
    Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
    Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
    To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
    Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav'n.

    - Milton, Paradise Lost, Book 1

    It’s interesting to me that she actually mentions VDH and Roosh V.

    It’s because she’s writing a book on the relationship between the alt-right and Classics. In fact, if you take iSteve as an example of alt-right writing, there isn’t much connection between Classics and Red-Pilling, but as she’s got to have those connections to write her book, they must exist. How did she get the idea of writing a book on the alt-right? Maybe it has to do with being the sister of a social media tycoon?

    Read More
    • Replies: @a Newsreader

    It’s because she’s writing a book on the relationship between the alt-right and Classics. In fact, if you take iSteve as an example of alt-right writing, there isn’t much connection between Classics and Red-Pilling, but as she’s got to have those connections to write her book, they must exist. How did she get the idea of writing a book on the alt-right?
     
    She was probably dumped by an alt-righty guy.

    Or maybe she has noticed that nerds who hit on her and have an interest in the Classics tend to be more Alt-Right than SJW.
  130. Who cares if the MSM craps all over the Alt Right? They did the same to the Tea Party (and then the Koch brothers and politicians co-opted it with money and access.) Let the MSM spend their time focused on the “Alt Right”. When the next election comes along, the free and creative will spawn another movement, and the MSM will forget the previous battle and thrust their myoptic spear at the next closest Hydra head.

    And when the Left starts knocking the Classics and those that pay attention to the Classics – well, let’s just say that if dismissing 2900 years of literature, history, and myth doesn’t make one look like an ill-educated petulant child, then it’s hard to say what does. Beauty has a timeless attraction. Convincing people that the beautiful is ugly is a angry, short-lived game.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    I think this is right: "Who cares?"

    At best, the AR is a loose set of ideas--you can find a guide, or a definition, or lists of principles if you web surf. Those ideas don't disappear because the WaPo, the NYT, or a Silicon Valley-based Classicist says the AR is a horrible bunch of racist misogynists. Name-calling, to be effective, has to be used against someone, some person--not ideas. And the AR is not centered on any one person or group, despite the lapdog media attempt to label certain people as leaders.

    As it is, the verbal abuse has become a mark of pride for the AR--for adherents and not-so-adherent alike, i.e. adoption of "the deplorables" was a middle fingered response to HRC and the prog-left.
  131. @Mike Sylwester
    Lisl Walsh, an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies, continues to explain to her Eidolon readers how she is dealing with her problem of having "a non-authoritative body" while her students are "a bunch of authoritarians".

    The third principle [that I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory] is a democratic/consent-based classroom: in general, I try to implement this by taking a lot of votes, asking for consent, and creating elements of choice that engage student agency and investment. .... I try to have them negotiate with me exam dates, project due dates, appropriate paper length requirements, and/or exam questions. ....

    Knowing how to make good use of the instructor is helpful in this regard: an openness about my strengths and weaknesses as an instructor, the fact that I have experience with the subject, that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.

    In Roman Civilization, for example, the students explicitly gave me permission to give pop quizzes on the readings whenever I wanted, and as often as I wanted, in order to keep them motivated to keep doing their homework. They might (like the Augustan senate) decide unanimously that they want no part in designing the content for the course and they want you to make all the decisions and be in control of assessing them — but at least in this they have given their consent to hand over authority to the instructor and acknowledged the instructor’s expertise. ....

    I am aware that some of these ideas might seem radical, but I have found them useful for fixing a very specific problem of the postmodern Classics classroom dynamic, and a problem that is perhaps more obstructive for particular physical manifestations of the Classicist professor — female, young (or old!), non-White, non-normatively gendered, not-normatively able-bodied, not a native speaker of English, in a contingent faculty position, graduate student, etc. — where claims to authority are perhaps more contested and questioned ....

    ... I still see some added benefits to incorporating these principles into your classroom: ....

    [....]

    2. Students are practicing precisely the de-naturalizing of norms you might want them to be doing with the course content. By which I mean: if your course uses antiquity in part in order to help students be more aware about the issues in their contemporary world, some of those issues might be power, authority, and privilege. Having students “unpack” or even reorient their assumptions about power in educational environments helps them see more clearly the construction and upholding of these power dynamics.

    [....]

    6. Finally, you have the opportunity to destabilize for your students the very system that is perhaps keeping your less-privileged colleagues from being granted the automatic respect of those same students. You, as the privileged, have more freedom to “train” students to see authority differently.

    [....]

    Gaining your students’ respect by drastically reducing the authority you have over their educational experience may seem paradoxical, but it has worked for me, at least for now (I anticipate as I age, or as my body changes, there will likely be different assumptions made about me) ....
     
    https://eidolon.pub/giving-it-up-in-the-classroom-14c1afcfd69#.95wvserwj

    the fact… that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.

    !!!!!!

    Read More
  132. @Thursday
    I'll just put this out there: Plato and Aristotle, not to mention Homer and a bunch more poets and dramatists, would have fucking despised Ms. Zuckerberg. And, having read and understood them, I woud agree with them over her every single time.

    Yeah, I have to agree with you about that: I’m sure that every author studied in the Classics would have despised Ms. Zuckerberg and what she stands for.

    Really, how is she any different from the anti-intellectuals she looks down on? Who, reading and understanding the Classics, would dismiss and belittle them as she does, or take away from them the unutterably stupid and trivial story she is telling about race and gender?

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.

    Western Civilization itself becomes pearls before swine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rod1963
    She and most of those on the Left are nothing more than Visigoths who learned to read. At heart they are still mindless savages that will do their damnest to tear down civilization.

    Neil Postman had this bloody lot nailed in a speech have gave before college graduation ceremony.

    https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/06/athenians-and-visigoths-neil-postmans-graduation-speech/

    It's worth a read. Such a speech could never again be given on a college campus.

    , @5371
    Yes. And I see no evidence that her brother is really on a higher level than she is.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.
     
    Some people envy/hate the “storied pomp” of others. Such greatness must be deconstructed and slighted by any means necessary.
  133. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    According to Forbes, Zuckerberg is the 10th most powerful person in the world. 8 out of 10 of the most powerful people are in their 60s or older, which would make Zuckerberg the 2nd most powerful person in the world under 60, and the most powerful person in the world under 40:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    * weird double post
    , @Expletive Deleted
    Zuckerberg is the 10th most powerful person in the world.
    How many divisions does the 'Book have?
  134. @syonredux
    Since I hate waiting

    Didn’t quite work out that way, though 2000 years is a pretty good run, or 1300 if you don’t count Byzantium. Though the Pope still speaks Latin.
     
    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..

    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..

    It’s not, that line has been explicitly severed in 1917. (And if we’re actually being serious and scholarly about it, in 1761.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    According to certain Russian friends of mine, the Third Rome is still around…..

    It’s not, that line has been explicitly severed in 1917. (And if we’re actually being serious and scholarly about it, in 1761.)
     
    Russian nationalists like to LARP
  135. @Maz
    Lots of liberal hand-wringing these days is inspired by the experience of getting trolled on Twitter. If you're used to only getting congratulated for voicing liberal shibboleths, it must be harrowing when the response is an immediate barrage of mockery instead.

    Journalists also vastly overrate the effect of the alt-right on Trump's success because of this. They are great targets for trolls because they're all on Twitter and they love to promote conventional wisdom. To the extent that the alt-right influenced the election, it may have been mostly by driving journalists into ever greater heights of hysteria in their Trump coverage.

    It’s that, plus they have Sore Spots. You can disagree with them all day on, for instance, the issues mainstream conservatives blah-blah about all day. But not on the Sore Spots.

    Trump is basically a centrist liberal, I always say, except on the most important issues. He’s anti-Globalist, anti-PC, and anti-empire. The alt-right is on his side on all these issues. These are Sore Spots. SJWs would be out of work if people were allowed to entertain alternative ideas on any of them. (Or, they imagine, burned at the stake. But that’s because they’re projecting what they’d do with the whip hand.) So they notice when they Spots are poked.

    Because Who/Whom makes the world go round, Trump and the alt-right are on the Other Gang together, and are viewed as one. By implication people are led to believe there’s actual intercourse between the two, or that Trump is staffing his administration with alt-righters, or something.

    But no. Trump is in the mainstream. To the right of the mainstream concerning the Sore Spots, but still mainstream overall. Still, a victory for Trump is a victory for the alt-right because who/whom. Ifsoever we are going to take over (retake?) the country, this is how it would start.

    Read More
  136. @Desiderius

    in Zuck’s case Fortune shows that who she really favors are the bold, immoral and ruthless.
     
    Fortuna is nothing is not fickle.

    Nemesis, Nemesis not so much. When she gets her claws in you, she doesn't let go. Zuck won't be able to dodge her snares forever.
    Read More
  137. @Mike Sylwester
    I went to the "How to Be a Good Classicist Under a Bad Emperor" link, and there I found the Eidolon website, where Donna Zuckerberg writes:

    Today I’m excited to announce a new offering by the Eidolon editorial team: idle musings, a blog where we’ll share the strange, random, fun things we write. It will be informal and unscheduled. ...

    Basically, Yung In Chae wrote a poem and we needed a place to put it.
     

    Yung In Chae is an Associate Editor of Eidolon and studies Classics at Cambridge.

    So, then I clicked on "a poem", which took me to the poem that Yung In Chae wrote. Her poem's idea is to rhyme “chair” and “fake hair” in order to mock Donald Trump. Here are some excerpts from the poem:


    Ode of a Classicist-Craftsman-Poet (Who Also Wants to Do a Trump Comparison)

    by Yung In Chae

    Dedicated to Donna Zuckerberg, Editor-in-Chief Extraordinaire

    Oh wonderful chair
    I of the clearly fake hair

    Look upon my work, ye Mighty
    and despair of the marble-whitey
    faces of my voters
    the movers and promoters
    of racism and misogyny

    I talked to Farage and he
    couldn’t agree with me more

    We’re at the White House’s door
    Until Nigel went back on his word
    Can’t stick to anything, little turd
    But he speaks his mind, unlike Paul Ryan
    Fearless leader? I told you he was lyin’

    Then all those bitter women joined in
    Like I’d touch her, she’s not even thin

    [....]

    It was a joke, albeit at women’s expense
    Think that’s wrong? Well, fuck you, Mike Pence

    [....]

    But my chair, darling chair! You are truly art
    Untaxable, even — that makes me smart

    [....]

    I’m a man’s man, that there’s no disputin’
    Manlier than my main man Vladimir Putin

    Once you see my wall, you’ll be calling me Hadrian
    I’d beat anyone in all the fucking Mediterranean

    [....]

    You’d be crowned best chair ever, it’d happen in a jiff
    if only the election weren’t rigged (sniff)

    I say this, chair: your majesty on Election Day we’ll see
    and great again shall America be.

    Fin
     

    https://eidolon.pub/introducing-idle-musings-bd9fb59494a2#.oonxgobs8

    https://medium.com/idle-musings/ode-of-a-classicist-craftsman-poet-who-also-wants-to-do-a-trump-comparison-30d327ceda95#.o870fav1h

    Yung In Chae is guilty of cultural misappropriation. The Authorities should be informed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    https://www.gatescambridge.org/members-area/connect/directory/scholar/9472

    "My interests are perhaps best exemplified by my job at the Paideia Institute, a nonprofit organization for classical study, where I am a Research Fellow and edit its online journal for writing about the ancient world in modern ways, Eidolon."

    Paideia? Isn't that Barbara Specter's institute?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ

    Specter who says that Europe cannot 'survive' unless it is swamped by non-Europeans?

    And why is an Asian following in the heels of Jewesses?

    What yellow running dogs.
    No spark. Just follow and imitate.
  138. Related to this is the resurgence of interest in Stoicism. Another example of Tom Wolfe being ahead of the curve.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Unlike Wolfe's hero, this guy seems never to have experienced any kind of adversity himself. Just shilling from day one.
  139. @Steve Sailer
    The Kagans using the disastrous Athenian misadventure of pointlessly invading Sicily in the middle of its war with Sparta to justify the US invading Iraq was always a real head-scratcher.

    The Kagans run the successor to PNAC, called FPI and are big promoters of U.S. intervention in Ukraine and demonizing Russia. They are very evil people and probably part of the deep state. Tillerson and Mattis if confirmed would do well to fire the Kagans from their positions along with their addlepatted followers that have infested the Pentagon and State.

    Read More
  140. A specter is haunting the internet? Tell me again there’s no cultural Marxism.

    No, I assume too much. She’s just starting off with a cliche because she heard it once and is lazy.

    Anyway, I often wonder what progressive classicists do all day. Because if they took their subject matter seriously they’d never stop vomiting, or they’d be converted a bit. They certainly couldn’t remain good PC soldiers, because they’d know too much.

    You can only deconstruct so much without turning into a Visigoth. You have to let some of it go, admit the value of some of it. Oherwise should someone outside the scam accidentally read your paper or sit in on a class, they might wonder why there’s a classics department at all.

    The ancient world is part of Western Civilization, but it’s alien to us and very unmodern. Although, I did watch a documentary on PBS recently on Ancient Greece, and it was basically all Whig History about the glorious unfolding of egalitarianism, or whatever. I underestimate their capacity for simple lying.

    Which is partly why classicism is dying. I can’t possibly imagine being spurred to reading Xenophon or Caesar by this harpy.

    Read More
  141. @newrouter
    "A specter is haunting the Internet — the specter of the “alt-right.”"

    hahaha

    "A SPECTER is haunting Eastern Europe: the specter of what in the West is called "dissent.""

    http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML

    Great link. Great connection. Thanks.

    Read More
  142. @candid_observer
    Yeah, I have to agree with you about that: I'm sure that every author studied in the Classics would have despised Ms. Zuckerberg and what she stands for.

    Really, how is she any different from the anti-intellectuals she looks down on? Who, reading and understanding the Classics, would dismiss and belittle them as she does, or take away from them the unutterably stupid and trivial story she is telling about race and gender?

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.

    Western Civilization itself becomes pearls before swine.

    She and most of those on the Left are nothing more than Visigoths who learned to read. At heart they are still mindless savages that will do their damnest to tear down civilization.

    Neil Postman had this bloody lot nailed in a speech have gave before college graduation ceremony.

    https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/06/athenians-and-visigoths-neil-postmans-graduation-speech/

    It’s worth a read. Such a speech could never again be given on a college campus.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    That Postman speech has potential, but I don't think Postman foresaw how thoroughly the "Visigoths" would infiltrate the institutions of the "Athenians", then adopt the "Athenian" garb, language, laws and customs to further the "Visigoth" end.

    Also, I think his use of Visigoths, when perhaps Mongols or Philistines would have been more fitting, was a bit of ethnic CYA. After all, the Visigoths conquered Rome on the grounds that the Romans did not abide by their own treaty, and having conquered it, they tried to continue it. By contrast, the Mongols typically exterminated those they conquered, then burned their cities down.
    , @res
    It was interesting that in the comments most people attacked him for attributing his negative descriptions to Visigoths. But not a word about mapping those descriptions to a majority ("so many more ") of our current population. And not a word about the power of the piece if you think of it as metaphor rather than literal truth.
  143. @German_reader
    Well, she does have a certain point though...someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn't have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn't much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of "progressive" causes.

    You don’t have to be a scholar to use things scholars just so happen to trick us into paying them to write unread articles about.

    Why are you even bringing up what’s “scholarly” in the realm of politics? Like the other side cares. (Only insofar as bridges still have to stay built.) Scholars to them are whoever wears robes and those stupid hats and tells them what they want to hear. (Or decides what they should want to hear then conditions them to want it then tells it to them.)

    The alt-right is not a highbrow movement. Can’t be, because the entire intellectual class in Western society is sick. The universities, think tanks, MSM, etc. are a lost cause, obviously. But so are the clerks, the teachers, the professionals, basically everyone who makes a living off the mind. We’re really in a very desperate situation, thanks to the brain rot of PC.

    The alt-right probably isn’t anti-intellectual enough, actually. We need a common sense movement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    The alt-right is not a highbrow movement. Can’t be, because the entire intellectual class in Western society is sick. The universities, think tanks, MSM, etc. are a lost cause, obviously. But so are the clerks, the teachers, the professionals, basically everyone who makes a living off the mind. We’re really in a very desperate situation, thanks to the brain rot of PC.
     
    This...

    ...is why I find so little to read that is interesting anymore. Our entire cultural output now is on a par with the schlock churned out by totalitarian Communist states.

    In that case, the only stuff worth reading is that which was created by the dissidents.

    Really, everything one reads, even if it is on a completely non-controversial topics, has the unmistakeable stench of purposefully self-hobbled minds that accept and purvey lies as facts.
  144. @snorlax
    The phrase originated as the famous opening line of Marx's Communist Manifesto.

    A specter is haunting Europe — the specter of Communism.
     
    Of course Marx was arguing that communism was the inevitable result of the progression of world herstory. Seems that Zuck's sis isn't that well-read a classicist, unless she intended the reference to be ironic.

    I said elsewhere she’s being lazy. But it shows you what phrases have currency in their world.

    She doesn’t want the “specter” of the alt-right to win, though of course Marx said his communism would win, no matter what. (I don’t believe him, elsewise why would he try so hard to subvert the existing order? Why would he try to ameliorate the workers’ lives? The worse the better, according to him. But I digress.) She puts herself in the mindset of a Good Burgher, aghast at the thick-necked mass of proles demanding dinner. Interesting, isn’t it?

    Yet more unintentional reaction from so-called progressives. They could go on winning for millennia and still fancy themselves the outsider rebels taking on the Man. Even if their Man is a bunch of internet trolls.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lurker

    Yet more unintentional reaction from so-called progressives. They could go on winning for millennia and still fancy themselves the outsider rebels taking on the Man. Even if their Man is a bunch of internet trolls.
     
    Inside herself she knows her position is built on nothing. We have logic, morality and nature on our side. She knows her authority is just a boot stamping on a human face, power for it's own sake.
  145. I find very endearing the fact that Zuckerberg Sr., after receiving more than $100 million in Facebook stock from his son, decided to continue working as a dentist out of the same nice but not very lavish suburban house.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kylie
    "I find very endearing the fact that Zuckerberg Sr., after receiving more than $100 million in Facebook stock from his son, decided to continue working as a dentist out of the same nice but not very lavish suburban house."

    BFD. I'd be a lot more impressed with him if he'd worked to raise daughters respectful toward the white men who founded and maintained the culture and traditions his Silicon Valley based classicist studies without any real understanding, appreciation or gratitude.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    The only real value of great wealth is to free people from the tedious labors required to feed, cloth, and house in order to pursue higher things. With $100m, he can't think of anything better to do with himself than continue his job?
  146. @newrouter
    "A specter is haunting the Internet — the specter of the “alt-right.”"

    hahaha

    "A SPECTER is haunting Eastern Europe: the specter of what in the West is called "dissent.""

    http://www.vaclavhavel.cz/showtrans.php?cat=eseje&val=2_aj_eseje.html&typ=HTML

    Well this is it. I am afraid that the game is up gentlemen. Without the support of the classical scholars our whole attempt to reshape western society is doomed. I am afraid that this must mean being sent to the library with a bottle of decent whiskey and your service revolver. You did your best, but you should probably finish yourselves off before they feed you to the lions or crucify you.

    Read More
  147. @Desiderius

    The Japanese have some interest but in a mostly superficial way.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBlQZyTF_LY

    Would that we were so superficial in our interest!

    There are so many performances of Beethoven’s 9th around New Years that the Japanese talk about 9th pollution.

    Read More
  148. (Zuckerberg re-interpreting the Classics)

    François-René de Chateaubriand–

    There are fits of forgetfulness or deceit which terrify; you open your ears, you rub your eyes, not knowing whether you are awake or asleep. When the imperturbable individual to whom you owe such assertions descends from the rostrum and takes his seat impassively, you follow him with your gaze, suspended as you are, between a kind of astonishment and a sort of admiration; you are unsure whether the man has not received some authority from nature giving him the power to recreate or annihilate the truth.

    Read More
  149. @Spotted Toad
    This seems like a wonderful endorsement of studying the classics on your own terms outside of a formal class.

    This seems like a wonderful endorsement of studying the classics on your own terms outside of a formal class.

    Or just be careful in college and make sure the class is taught by an old school professor who loves ancient Greece and Rome.

    Read More
  150. @syonredux

    If Blacks wuz kangs…

    …then Jews wuz Greeks.
     
    Well, there is this bit from 1 Maccabees

    20 'Areios king of the Spartans, to Onias the high priest, greetings.

    21 'It has been discovered in records regarding the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers, and of the race of Abraham.

    22 Now that this has come to our knowledge, we shall be obliged if you will send us news of your welfare.

    23 Our own message to you is this: your flocks and your possessions are ours, and ours are yours, and we are instructing our envoys to give you a message to this effect.'
     
    (12:20-23)

    That sort of “we wuz hellenez” LARPing influences the OT, and the genesis of Jewry itself, far beyond the one forgery you cite.

    Read More
  151. @syonredux

    I cannot abide, Quirites, a Rome of Greeks; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Greece? The Syrian Orontes has long since poured into the Tiber, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

     

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek, then note what a small fraction actually comes from Iberia, rivers of Amerind blood having long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet:

    I cannot abide, Quirites, an America of Hispanics; and yet what fraction of our dregs comes from Iberia? Amerind rivers have long since overwhelmed the Spanish rivulet, bringing with it its lingo and its manners, its flutes and its slanting harp-strings

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek

    Juvenal was an intellectual from a modest Italian family, and he was in economic competition with Greeks, as well as Romans who were proud they had been expensively educated in Greece. But the reference to “The Syrian Orontes” makes it sound as if he is referring to Greek-speaking immigrants from Roman Syria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Nothing is known about Juvenal's origins; Ronald Syme made a case for him coming from Africa.
    , @syonredux

    But the reference to “The Syrian Orontes” makes it sound as if he is referring to Greek-speaking immigrants from Roman Syria.
     
    He is. He's implying that most of the "Greeks" in Rome aren't really Greek, just Hellenized Orientals.
  152. I hardly think the ancient Hellenes and Romans of classical antiquity were “white” as Anglo-Saxons use the term. Tacitus, for instance, used several paragraphs of text in his Treaty on Germanics Peoples to describe the tremendous phenotypical differences between Romans and Germans. The most important points he emphasized is that Germans were taller and lighter in color than Romans. And Tacitus was of noble ancestry, living during a time when the Roman elites were still unadultered and could trace their lineages back to the time of the king Ancus Marcius. And yet, he emphasized how different Germans were from himself physically. This means that white racists cannot even use the argument that Romanns and German looked similar originally, but that race-mixing made the Romans darker than they originally were.

    This woman is clearly an idiot, and even though she is right that the alt.right is composed mostly of the drags of Society, she is missing the main argument against the alt.right: that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism, all things that the conservatives who support Trump, for the most part, reject. She doesen’t notice the profound irony of the alt.right fetichizing the Ancients, when the Ancients would find the alt.right repulsive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Grumpy
    "the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism"

    ...so they forced Socrates to commit suicide.
    , @Gabriel M

    that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism,
     
    Lolwut!

    The degree to which this is not true is demonstrated by a bizarre episode in intellectual history (1940s -80s) in which liberals searched for their intellectual heritage in the pre-Socratic sophists, until eventually they got too embarrassed about writing entire books analyzing the political philosophy of half-sentence fragments. Karl Popper was the most famous advocate of this hilarious waste of time,* which, in its own way, was as odd as the whole Black Athena thing.

    The most important was Eric Havelock.

    , @Desiderius

    This woman is clearly an idiot
     
    A shaft of light enters the cave!
    , @Expletive Deleted
    values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights
    well apart from that Slavery thing they had going on.
    But it was mostly White folks getting chained up, so it doesn't count, as usual.
    , @Desiderius

    the alt.right is composed mostly of the drags of Society
     
    They may well be drags, man, and almost guaranteed to harsh your mellow, but if all you're seeing are the dregs, you might want to look more closely, or maybe cast your net more widely.

    she is missing the main argument against the alt.right: that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism, all things that the conservatives who support Trump, for the most part, reject.
     
    Neither the ancient Hellenes nor today's alt-right/Trump supporters (don't be fooled, the vast majority of the latter are not the former, but they do share this characteristic) are perfect adherents to those values. What they are, in both cases, are closer adherents than the alternatives in which they were/are in competition.

    If you think the SJWs are paragons of political tolerance, respect for individual rights, or scientific rationalism, I don't know what to tell you.
    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism, all things that the conservatives who support Trump, for the most part, reject.

    "Tolerance" as an intellectual idea is a modern one that appears on the stage first in Britain, around the time of its kin, "disinterestedness". Reported in detail first by Voltaire.

    , @ussr andy
    don't progs like uplifting "drags of society"? why not here?

    And it's spelled "dregs."

    , @syonredux

    I hardly think the ancient Hellenes and Romans of classical antiquity were “white” as Anglo-Saxons use the term.
     
    Dunno. Last time I checked, Cary Grant, Richard Nixon,Clark Gable, and Catherine Zeta-Jones all counted as White....
    , @Mr. Anon
    "I hardly think the ancient Hellenes and Romans of classical antiquity were “white” as Anglo-Saxons use the term."

    You should have stopped with "I hardly think". Of course the ancient Greeks and Romans were white. Nobody has ever said they were not - including northern european classicists of the 18th and 19th centuries.

    "Tacitus, for instance,........."

    Tacitus was interested in noticing and describing distinctions between his people and others. When minor differences are all that apparent, they get made out to be bigger than they are. The Romans never thought that, because they were not as pale as Germans, that they were then somehow kindred of Nubians.

    "This woman is clearly an idiot,......"

    Not quite as clearly as you are.

    "......that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism, all things that the conservatives who support Trump, for the most part, reject. She doesen’t notice the profound irony of the alt.right fetichizing the Ancients, when the Ancients would find the alt.right repulsive."

    Utter nonsense of course. The ancient Greeks would find far more in common with the alt-right than they would with you. Of course, you are too dim to realize that the alt-right is a tiny fringe movement and is quite distinct from the much broader category of "conservatives who support Trump". And even the "drags of society" who "fetichize" things, know how to spell "dregs" and "fetishize".

    If you wish to come across as smart, it would help if you were - you know - smart. You aren't.

    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance

    "Tolerence" as an intellectual idea is a modern thing from Britain, dating from around the time of its kin "disinterestedness", and first reported on in depth by Voltaire.
    , @5371
    Tacitus wasn't noble; he didn't belong to any of the patrician families of Cornelii from Rome. We don't know exactly where he came from, but it may well have been what is now the south of France.
    To correct your wider cluelessness about the ancient world would detain me all day.
  153. @Dave Pinsen
    Related to this is the resurgence of interest in Stoicism. Another example of Tom Wolfe being ahead of the curve.
    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/810363372978008065

    Unlike Wolfe’s hero, this guy seems never to have experienced any kind of adversity himself. Just shilling from day one.

    Read More
  154. @jimbojones
    At the same time, you are only being blamed for your ancestors' sins, but not being praised for their achievements.

    Suppose white men are to blame for slavery etc etc. (They are not. Christians are the only ones who ever abolished slavery no a large scale.) Fine.

    Then white men are to be praised for inventing the entire modern world.

    Yes, Western Europeans created the modern world … the social, moral, religious, political, judicial, technical, medical, and economic bases for society. It created science and the concept of the nation state. It pressed the Christian concept of equality under God and the law, outlawed slavery, elevated the status of women, and introduced democracy to the world. It split the atom and took humankind to the moon while the rest of the world herded goats and continued to live in primitive family, clan, and tribal associations.

    How do I know this? Because I’ve studied history and the classics and see the footprint of Western Civilization everywhere I look in the world.

    At their most confident, Western Europeans colonized the rest of the world, providing it a patina of modernity and westernization. Then, in the name of equality, they invited the colonized to come and live with them as brothers and sisters. Immigration to the West started as a drip, then it became a flood, and it ended as a tsunami. Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America displaced their populations and cultures to the Western nation states, eventually making the Western Europeans political and cultural minorities in their own countries — a redux of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire.

    If one does not have a Western European background, however, there is a tendency to feel bad about oneself. In the extreme, this creates a feeling of self-hate for not being white and European … or, for the feminists (also a European invention) being white, European, and male. You are wracked with cognitive dissonance. You hate white males and Western Civilization as you ironically try everything you can to become part of what they created. To salvage your self-esteem, you retcon history to press the illusion that the West expropriated your history, your science, and your technology. Indeed, as the ultimate projection, the white man is a vile thief who stole your civilization and now makes you feel bad about yourself. Reparations are due, as you demand that the white man “cash out” the fruits of the only civilization on planet earth that has anything worth “cashing out” and award them to you in the name of justice. You demand affirmative action to replace the white man within his institutions one person at a time in the name of equality. As borders fold and immigration becomes a torrent, numbers favor this. This is democracy, your know!

    My take: Let them bask in their illusions and projections as the “right” tries to salvage what is left of Western Civilization. In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy the Greek and Roman classics even as the modern world is shaken to the core under the lastest barbarian attacks. We’ve been there before. There will be another Renaissance … and I know what they will be studying.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri

    "There will be another Renaissance ... "
     
    So all we have to do is ... hang on through a thousand year Dark Age?
    , @Yak-15
    Well written.

    Sad we may never see this next Renaissance.
    , @dfordoom

    Yes, Western Europeans created the modern world … the social, moral, religious, political, judicial, technical, medical, and economic bases for society. It created science and the concept of the nation state. It pressed the Christian concept of equality under God and the law, outlawed slavery, elevated the status of women, and introduced democracy to the world.
     
    Western Europeans also gave the world socialism, feminism, postmodernism, atheism, mindless consumerism, cultural and moral relativism, celebrity culture, democracy, the worship of sexual degeneracy and self-hatred. Let's face it, we destroyed ourselves. No-one else had the power to destroy us.

    And if you could magically reset the West to the way it was a century or two ago we'd destroy ourselves all over again.

    We need to take a long hard look at our civilisation, identify its weaknesses and ruthlessly eradicate those weaknesses. There's a lot of good within western civilisation but there's a lot of sickness as well.

    We can't blame a bunch of Africans living in mud huts, or Islam, or China, or any other culture, for destroying us. They don't have the capacity to do so, they never have had and never will have. Western civilisation wasn't murdered, it committed suicide.
  155. @Lot

    Seems to me that Juvenal’s lines are well suited for describing the situation in Anglo-America. Simply swap Hispanic for Greek
     
    Juvenal was an intellectual from a modest Italian family, and he was in economic competition with Greeks, as well as Romans who were proud they had been expensively educated in Greece. But the reference to "The Syrian Orontes" makes it sound as if he is referring to Greek-speaking immigrants from Roman Syria.

    Nothing is known about Juvenal’s origins; Ronald Syme made a case for him coming from Africa.

    Read More
  156. @syonredux
    And it seems that there is some doubt as to whether Yiannopoulos is even partially Jewish:

    Milo has said that his mother, or maternal grandmother, is Jewish. It is not clear if that is accurate.
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/milo-yiannopoulos

    Some Jews even tried to weasel out of Monica Lewinsky. They claimed she was Polish!

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Some Jews even tried to weasel out of Monica Lewinsky. They claimed she was Polish!
     
    Yeah, but some non-Jews in the West do like to claim Jewish ancestry. E.g., Courtney Love:

    Courtney has often described herself as having Jewish ancestry, as being “half Jewish”, or, once, as being “five eighths Jewish”. None of these statements appear to be accurate. Courtney’s father is not of Jewish heritage, nor is Courtney’s maternal grandmother. The identity of Courtney’s biological maternal grandfather does not appear to be publicly known, but it is not clear if Courtney is referring to him being Jewish in her statements (she has said that her maternal grandmother, Paula Fox, is Jewish, which is not accurate).
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/courtney-love

    And Meryl Streep:

    Meryl had believed that her paternal ancestry came from the “Streep” family, a Dutch family that was descended from distant Sephardi Jewish ancestors. However, when her ancestry was traced on the 2010 series Faces of America (with Henry Louis Gates, Jr.), Meryl found out that she had no Dutch nor Sephardi Jewish roots. Her genealogy was not connected to the “Streep” family of the Netherlands, because her father’s ancestors, who were German, were originally named “Streeb”, and had changed their surname to “Streep”.
     
    http://ethnicelebs.com/meryl-streep
  157. @candid_observer
    Yeah, I have to agree with you about that: I'm sure that every author studied in the Classics would have despised Ms. Zuckerberg and what she stands for.

    Really, how is she any different from the anti-intellectuals she looks down on? Who, reading and understanding the Classics, would dismiss and belittle them as she does, or take away from them the unutterably stupid and trivial story she is telling about race and gender?

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.

    Western Civilization itself becomes pearls before swine.

    Yes. And I see no evidence that her brother is really on a higher level than she is.

    Read More
  158. Perhaps the single greatest lesson that the ancient Greeks and Romans had for us today is one of moral fortitude and clarity of purpose. The first rule of war is to identify who your enemy is. If you cannot do that, then you can’t do anything. The West cannot fight ISIS, or highly violent political pressure groups, not because it doesen’t have the means to, but because in order to do that it would require the West to “point the finger”, which is “devisive” and “culturally insensitive”. The ancient Romans, for instance, never hesitated to identify who their enemy was, and they were not concerned if that was upsetting to anybody. They would do it even to their own. Here is Augustus ending his alliance with Anthony and declaring war on Egypt: https://youtu.be/QiLT29hDhag

    Read More
  159. Oddly enough, the fields of ancient and medieval history have largely been free of leftist retconning and activism, although, after 9/11, that changed slightly for medieval history (crusades bad, Moors in Spain good, etc.)

    Leftist academics, so far, haven’t really been interested in saying guys like Julius Caesar “committed genocide and war crimes” or “owned slaves.” The Arch of Titus in Rome, depicting Titus’s victory over the Jews, has, to my knowledge, not been labeled “anti-semetic.”

    Generally, for leftists, the Nuremberg Trial of Western Civilization begins in 1492 with Columbus.

    Read More
  160. As the SJW-Left seeks to protect its recently gained institutional power, the Right must respond be revisiting some to the tools the formerly disempowered Left used to gain power. Among them is Marxism, the Frankfurt School with its Critical Theory, Foucault, and of course Edward Said’s “Orientalism”.

    Donna Zuckerberg is blatantly asserting her cultural hegemony over marginalized white men by attempting to appropriate their precious cultural inheritance passed down to them by the Great White Men of antiquity. Can you imagine the outrage if a group of Goyim tried to monopolize the study of the Torah because Likudniks had been using it to justify oppressing Palestinians?

    Although most don’t realize it, much of the alt-Right derives from the works of French philosopher Alain de Benoist; who identifies as a pagan and prefers polytheism over monotheism. And so indeed as time goes on the alt-Right is going to delve deeper and deeper into their cultural heritage and the Classics are going to become more and more influential as America turns alt-Right intellectually and spiritually. Red-pilled parents will be pushing their school systems to dump the Manderin immersion and to teach their children Ancient Greek instead. Embracing the Classics will soon be an open sign of dissidence against the rot brought on by an illegitimate elite in the Western world.

    Feminists/SJW are blatantly engaging in Occidentalism in attempting to fetishize and marginalize the oeuvre of the Great White Men. And so to paraphrase a yet to appear alt-Right Edward Said: the praxis of cultural imperialism reduces (essentializes) those Great White Men as culturally static and intellectually undeveloped; the fabrication of cultural superiority is that alt-Right culture is a thing (an Other) that can be studied, depicted, and reproduced. Implicit to the Occidentalist fabrication is the culturally opposite idea that Feminist/SJW society is developed, rational, flexible, and thereby superior, whilst Alt-Right intellectuals are inferior for being undeveloped, irrational, and inflexible. This results in the alienation of white men when confronted with the reification of SJW superiority in the form of restrictions and barriers to the study of the Great White Men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Although most don’t realize it, much of the alt-Right derives from the works of French philosopher Alain de Benoist
     
    I'd argue that the more traditionalist sect of the alt-Right stems from the works of the Catholic French Counter-Enlightenment philosophers like Maistre and Bonald, and more recently, G.K. Chesterton while the atheist and neo-Paganist sects stem from the philosophy of Nietzsche (specifically, the idea that "God is dead" and it is up to man to create morality). Both are united in an honesty and clarity of purpose as well as a common enemy. Furthermore, both views are far more consistent than the Enlightenment doctrines asserting certain "truths to be self-evident" which are clearly not self-evident; the alt-Right rejects Rationalism (though not rationality nor science) and utilitarianism.

    The greatest difference between the alt-Right and the Enlightenment philosophies is in the idea of "self-evident truths." The traditionalist sect asserts morality derives only from God. The atheist/neo-Paganist view is that morality is man's power over man. The philosophies stemming from the Enlightenment state that morality is "self-evident." The alt-Right is concrete, the Enlightenment is not.

    Criticism and comment welcome.

    Side note: I do feel that I understand the philosophy behind the traditionalist sect of the alt-Right far better than I do the atheist and neo-Paganist sects.
  161. @neutral

    the most elite white man of his generation
     
    Is he though ? As an article here a few days back already mentioned, when Donna Zuckerberg mentions white men, I doubt she counts her brother as being part of that group.

    Daryush Valizadeh: that’s an Iranian name. Are they counted as white, or a has group of Iranians wing nuts started lobbying for a separate race classification?

    Read More
  162. @Paul Yarbles

    We do not support your myopic vision of “Western Civilization.”
     
    I wonder what Dr. Z's non-myopic vision of “Western Civilization” looks like. A vision that supports her love-filled ideas no doubt.

    I also wonder what grade a student who leans alt-right and doesn't keep it to him or her self can expect from Doctor-Commissar Z. I mean a student with those views cannot possibly understand the classics in the correct way, right?

    I wonder too. I suspect her version of “Western Civilization” doesn’t and can’t really exist which is why she doesn’t and can’t elaborate what it is.

    “Seek better reasons for studying Classics.”

    Such as?

    “In your scholarship, focus on the parts of antiquity that aren’t elite white men.”

    Such as?

    Lysistrata? We only have her because she was invented by a white man.

    “Read and cite the work of scholars who write about race, gender, and class in the ancient world.”

    Such as?

    I know these exist, Exhibit A: Dr. Zuckerberg, but there’s not much for them to say, Exhibit A: Dr. Zuckerberg again.

    “Be open about the marginalization and bias that exists within our discipline.”

    Such as the marginalization and bias that Dr. Zuckerberg is promoting?

    Dr. Zukerberg’s whole spiel is parasitical. If dead white males didn’t create the classics, there would be nothing for her to rage against.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Yarbles
    Yes, it seems Dr. Z and her ilk have a confused relationship to what they have made the center of their lives. Deep down they love Western culture and Western achievement. Deep down they hate the fact that it was white males who were primarily responsible.
  163. @Mr. Blank
    You know, just screw these people. I've just had it. I can't play video games without being a racist, I can't watch sports without being a racist, I can't listen to music without being a racist. Fine, whatever.

    Now I can't read Homer or Plato or Plutarch without being a racist. Always, everywhere, whatever I do, I'm somehow scheming to put blacks back in chains and women in the kitchen. No pleasure I can have escapes the stain of my distant ancestors.

    All accounts must be settled, all crooked roads must be made straight, all mountains and valleys must be leveled to achieve perfect justice. Apparently there is just something in human nature that turns some people into theocratic bullies. It's an urge so strong it manifests itself even in people who don't believe in God.

    I'm beginning to understand why wise gurus supposedly went to live on mountaintops, away from all human contact.

    Another problem is buying a novel and finding out the author is an SJW.

    For example, I ordered a book advertised as a mystery. It soon turned out the bad guy was against immigration and was portrayed as evil. The good guys were all helping Mexicans in.

    I didn’t finish it and I’m more careful now. Still, the book description on Amazon didn’t note the immigration angle. It can be hard to avoid. Mysteries set in the past are safer.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Lurker
    I trust you supplied a warning review on Amazon.
    , @dfordoom

    Mysteries set in the past are safer.
     
    Mysteries written in the past are safer.

    All contemporary fiction, in all genres, should be avoided. All of it is tainted. I won't read any fiction written in the past 40 years and I'm very suspicious of anything written post-WW2.
  164. @Nick Diaz
    I hardly think the ancient Hellenes and Romans of classical antiquity were "white" as Anglo-Saxons use the term. Tacitus, for instance, used several paragraphs of text in his Treaty on Germanics Peoples to describe the tremendous phenotypical differences between Romans and Germans. The most important points he emphasized is that Germans were taller and lighter in color than Romans. And Tacitus was of noble ancestry, living during a time when the Roman elites were still unadultered and could trace their lineages back to the time of the king Ancus Marcius. And yet, he emphasized how different Germans were from himself physically. This means that white racists cannot even use the argument that Romanns and German looked similar originally, but that race-mixing made the Romans darker than they originally were.

    This woman is clearly an idiot, and even though she is right that the alt.right is composed mostly of the drags of Society, she is missing the main argument against the alt.right: that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism, all things that the conservatives who support Trump, for the most part, reject. She doesen't notice the profound irony of the alt.right fetichizing the Ancients, when the Ancients would find the alt.right repulsive.

    “the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism”

    …so they forced Socrates to commit suicide.

    Read More
  165. @German_reader
    Well, she does have a certain point though...someone like Richard Spencer certainly doesn't have a scholarly approach to classics, but wants to use them for his own political project. Problem is her own attitude isn't much different, after all she wants to explicitly politicize classical studies in the service of "progressive" causes.

    Richard Spencer & co. may or may not have scholarly approach to Classicism, but Dr. Zuckerberg certainly doesn’t, which is the greater misdeed because she is a Classicist (or at least promotes herself as such and has a doctorate to attest that other Classicists think she is too).

    It is telling that Dr. Zuckerberg cites no Classical authority throughout her entire rant supposedly defending the Classics. The authority she does cite is SJWism, which she cites a priori as though it were self evidently true.

    Of the two, Zuckerberg is far worse than Spencer. The alt-right proceeds from the Classics because they believe they are proceeding from the meaning of what the Classics actually say. They may or may not be correct, but they are arguing in good faith. Dr. Zuckerberg openly admits that the Classics are just a vehicle of convenience for her true calling: being a Social Justice Xanthippe (I wonder is she would even recognize the reference) as she openly calls on other Classicists to warp their field of study to achieve a prejudiced and exclusionary political objective.

    Truly she is what she rails against. The lady doth project too much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ic1000
    > [Dr. Zuckerberg's] true calling: being a Social Justice Xanthippe (I wonder is she would even recognize the reference)

    I had to look it up... LOL.
  166. @Maz
    Lots of liberal hand-wringing these days is inspired by the experience of getting trolled on Twitter. If you're used to only getting congratulated for voicing liberal shibboleths, it must be harrowing when the response is an immediate barrage of mockery instead.

    Journalists also vastly overrate the effect of the alt-right on Trump's success because of this. They are great targets for trolls because they're all on Twitter and they love to promote conventional wisdom. To the extent that the alt-right influenced the election, it may have been mostly by driving journalists into ever greater heights of hysteria in their Trump coverage.

    Even encountering contrary opinions on twitter or a comment section seems to be shocking to them. It doesn’t even have to be trolling. In the case of Ms. Zuck merely asserting that Western Civilization is a Civilization and that her field is important to understanding it causes her to shriek and look under the bed for Literally Hitler. A few dozen guys with complicated haircuts have a rent-free bachelor pad condo in her head.

    One would think that scholars would leap at the chance to educate a public curious about their academic specialty. She’s quite sure you shouldn’t look into the classics because they’re a foundation of Western Civilization but also not quite sure why they’re relevant at all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @cloudbuster
    asserting that Western Civilization is a Civilization

    The assertion is actually more radical than that. The assertion is that Western Civilization is Civilization. All other cultures, to the extent that they reject Western Civilization, are uncivilized, barbaric.

  167. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Lucia Festival in Sweden. Quite beautiful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl6o4mG25Ec

    Nice video, but this is what Lucia 2025 will look like if the Swedes keep up with the African immigration….. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxhhF_nHxIs

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Actually, the Swedes would be lucky to end up with such Zulu dancing. They are much more likely to end up with this:

    https://youtu.be/jm48QEigkko?t=21s

    With plenty of side helpings of this:

    https://youtu.be/5gOvT9dmpA4
  168. BTW, it seems that the SJWs going after video games was a bridge too far in their assault on Western culture. The fallout of that misadventure provided and continues to provide a lot of foot soldiers for their opponents. A tactical retreat on their part would seem to be in order, but they cannot force themselves to shut up about the subject.

    Read More
  169. @Desiderius

    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Christian churches in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Christian past for inspiration…
     
    Given the pro-mass immigration stance of the Universities in most Western countries it’s not hard to see why right-wingers look to the pre-Calculus past for computation…

    Babies, bathwater...

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ. Somehow they think they can skip the in Christ part and everything will be hunky-dory. That's not Christianity's fault.

    There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ.

    Thank God I’m not religious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Thank God I’m not religious.
     
    God has apparently seen fit to make some of us just that way. Not coincidentally, it tends to correlate historically with high achievement.

    Perhaps the secular is the fruit of the sacred rather than it's antithesis.
    , @Anon
    "There is no East or West, no Jew or Greek in Christ."

    Or there is both East and West & Jew and Greek in Christ(ianity).
  170. @candid_observer
    Yeah, I have to agree with you about that: I'm sure that every author studied in the Classics would have despised Ms. Zuckerberg and what she stands for.

    Really, how is she any different from the anti-intellectuals she looks down on? Who, reading and understanding the Classics, would dismiss and belittle them as she does, or take away from them the unutterably stupid and trivial story she is telling about race and gender?

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.

    Western Civilization itself becomes pearls before swine.

    She is the hidden, rotten core of identity politics: the destruction of all Greatness, American or otherwise.

    Some people envy/hate the “storied pomp” of others. Such greatness must be deconstructed and slighted by any means necessary.

    Read More
  171. @Boomstick
    Even encountering contrary opinions on twitter or a comment section seems to be shocking to them. It doesn't even have to be trolling. In the case of Ms. Zuck merely asserting that Western Civilization is a Civilization and that her field is important to understanding it causes her to shriek and look under the bed for Literally Hitler. A few dozen guys with complicated haircuts have a rent-free bachelor pad condo in her head.

    One would think that scholars would leap at the chance to educate a public curious about their academic specialty. She's quite sure you shouldn't look into the classics because they're a foundation of Western Civilization but also not quite sure why they're relevant at all.

    asserting that Western Civilization is a Civilization

    The assertion is actually more radical than that. The assertion is that Western Civilization is Civilization. All other cultures, to the extent that they reject Western Civilization, are uncivilized, barbaric.

    Read More
  172. @Mike Sylwester
    One of the articles in the Eidolon website is titled "Giving It Up in the Classroom: Feminist Classics and the Burden of Authority" and is written by Lisl Walsh, who is identified as "an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies. Yoga enthusiast and instructor. Feminist. Uncertified neologician and portmantologist".

    Walsh's article begins:

    A couple years ago, I was in my first few years in a tenure-track position at a small, private liberal arts institution in the Midwest, and I was troubled (read: terrified) that I was receiving not-so-stellar teaching evaluations that occasionally questioned my competency, skill, and intelligence. ....

    ... the students’ assumption of me by the end of the semester, despite any learning they had accomplished along the way, was that I was a do-nothing, know-nothing instructor. And they did not shrink from telling me as much.
     
    At some point, Walsh decided that her problem was that she had "a non-authoritative body" while her students were "a bunch of authoritarians". She decided to assign her "bunch of authoritarians" to themselves design her course's syllabus.

    Here was my question: how does a person occupying a non-authoritative body teach a bunch of authoritarians living in a racist, sexist, ableist society what a responsible postmodern approach to Greco-Roman antiquity looks like? ....

    In changing my approach to the classroom, I accepted that, given the body I currently inhabit, students would likely never automatically grant me their trust in my knowledge, experience, authority, etc. up to the level that they “expect” a Professor should have (‘automatic’ is important here: the point is that students don’t realize how much of their perception of authoritativeness is rooted in their willingness to grant an amount of it in the first place).

    But I also accepted that my clutching at the traditional signifiers of authoritativeness — insisting that students not call me by my first name (which I never actually employed, but I know those who do), making sure to mention in class that I had a Ph.D. (some students assumed I did not), dressing more “professionally,” wearing makeup, etc. — might ratchet up students’ impressions of me, but would ultimately never get students to assume that I was worthy of the same amount of automatic respect they would grant to a white masculine body up in front of the room. ....

    So I deal with this ... crisis of authority by using 4 principles I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory:

    1) decentering authority away from the instructor;

    2) empowering students as producers of knowledge;

    3) modeling a democratic/consent-based classroom; and

    4) empowering students as monitors of their peers’ work.

    In every class where I’ve employed these strategies, the evaluations have been more constructive and compassionate, and students have stopped questioning my competence in the field. ....

    I understand that it is impossible to remove the power structures within the classroom, and my decision to recruit the students in structuring their own learning is still an exercise of my power — a power that stems in part from my perceived whiteness, my relative age, and my occupation of space in the room. I try to be transparent about this power dynamic with my students.

    I decided to have the students (help) design their syllabus. The first time I tried this tactic for a traditional Roman history course, I didn’t hand over the reins completely: I had a few learning goals I wanted to keep. Students would need to “know” at least a framework of the dominant narrative of Roman history so that they could use that knowledge to analyze Roman cultural values (or take more specified courses in the future), to familiarize themselves with a variety of primary sources in translation, and, most importantly, to use Roman history to “de-naturalize” their perceptions of the things they consider normal. But as far as other learning goals and assessments went, I left that up to the students. ....

    In decentralizing authority, I have learned also to share the work of the course and be honest about my limits. For example, if students want extra tutoring sessions, and I’m already overwhelmed, I tell them so and ask them to find a solution (e.g., extra credit for students who are willing to tutor, or having them mark each others’ exams to free me up to lead a tutoring session).

     

    IOW, tl;dr version: “Because I have poor self-esteem and am terrified of my career being derailed by insufficiently positive student reviews, I made my class an easy-A to win their favor”.

    Read More
  173. @Nick Diaz
    I hardly think the ancient Hellenes and Romans of classical antiquity were "white" as Anglo-Saxons use the term. Tacitus, for instance, used several paragraphs of text in his Treaty on Germanics Peoples to describe the tremendous phenotypical differences between Romans and Germans. The most important points he emphasized is that Germans were taller and lighter in color than Romans. And Tacitus was of noble ancestry, living during a time when the Roman elites were still unadultered and could trace their lineages back to the time of the king Ancus Marcius. And yet, he emphasized how different Germans were from himself physically. This means that white racists cannot even use the argument that Romanns and German looked similar originally, but that race-mixing made the Romans darker than they originally were.

    This woman is clearly an idiot, and even though she is right that the alt.right is composed mostly of the drags of Society, she is missing the main argument against the alt.right: that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism, all things that the conservatives who support Trump, for the most part, reject. She doesen't notice the profound irony of the alt.right fetichizing the Ancients, when the Ancients would find the alt.right repulsive.

    that the values of the ancient Hellenes were of political tolerance, respect for individual rights and scientific rationalism,

    Lolwut!

    The degree to which this is not true is demonstrated by a bizarre episode in intellectual history (1940s -80s) in which liberals searched for their intellectual heritage in the pre-Socratic sophists, until eventually they got too embarrassed about writing entire books analyzing the political philosophy of half-sentence fragments. Karl Popper was the most famous advocate of this hilarious waste of time,* which, in its own way, was as odd as the whole Black Athena thing.

    The most important was Eric Havelock.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Nick Diaz is astonishingly ignorant about antiquity, but so are you about the study of pre-Socratic philosophy (to which Karl Popper never had the slightest connection).
  174. @Mike Sylwester
    Lisl Walsh, an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies, continues to explain to her Eidolon readers how she is dealing with her problem of having "a non-authoritative body" while her students are "a bunch of authoritarians".

    The third principle [that I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory] is a democratic/consent-based classroom: in general, I try to implement this by taking a lot of votes, asking for consent, and creating elements of choice that engage student agency and investment. .... I try to have them negotiate with me exam dates, project due dates, appropriate paper length requirements, and/or exam questions. ....

    Knowing how to make good use of the instructor is helpful in this regard: an openness about my strengths and weaknesses as an instructor, the fact that I have experience with the subject, that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.

    In Roman Civilization, for example, the students explicitly gave me permission to give pop quizzes on the readings whenever I wanted, and as often as I wanted, in order to keep them motivated to keep doing their homework. They might (like the Augustan senate) decide unanimously that they want no part in designing the content for the course and they want you to make all the decisions and be in control of assessing them — but at least in this they have given their consent to hand over authority to the instructor and acknowledged the instructor’s expertise. ....

    I am aware that some of these ideas might seem radical, but I have found them useful for fixing a very specific problem of the postmodern Classics classroom dynamic, and a problem that is perhaps more obstructive for particular physical manifestations of the Classicist professor — female, young (or old!), non-White, non-normatively gendered, not-normatively able-bodied, not a native speaker of English, in a contingent faculty position, graduate student, etc. — where claims to authority are perhaps more contested and questioned ....

    ... I still see some added benefits to incorporating these principles into your classroom: ....

    [....]

    2. Students are practicing precisely the de-naturalizing of norms you might want them to be doing with the course content. By which I mean: if your course uses antiquity in part in order to help students be more aware about the issues in their contemporary world, some of those issues might be power, authority, and privilege. Having students “unpack” or even reorient their assumptions about power in educational environments helps them see more clearly the construction and upholding of these power dynamics.

    [....]

    6. Finally, you have the opportunity to destabilize for your students the very system that is perhaps keeping your less-privileged colleagues from being granted the automatic respect of those same students. You, as the privileged, have more freedom to “train” students to see authority differently.

    [....]

    Gaining your students’ respect by drastically reducing the authority you have over their educational experience may seem paradoxical, but it has worked for me, at least for now (I anticipate as I age, or as my body changes, there will likely be different assumptions made about me) ....
     
    https://eidolon.pub/giving-it-up-in-the-classroom-14c1afcfd69#.95wvserwj

    Shorter Lisl Walsh:

    After a disastrous first experience of teaching, caused by her own stupidity and conceits, Lisl found she could improve her evaluation scores by not really teaching anymore, while hanging on to the privileges and pay of the office of “teacher”.

    You go grrl!

    To be fair to her, in her case, not teaching is almost certainly an improvement on teaching, as her students apparently noticed.

    Read More
  175. All this hectoring, this jewsplaining, would be bearable if they weren’t the most powerful people on earth.

    Read More
  176. @Almost Missouri
    Shorter Lisl Walsh:

    After a disastrous first experience of teaching, caused by her own stupidity and conceits, Lisl found she could improve her evaluation scores by not really teaching anymore, while hanging on to the privileges and pay of the office of "teacher".

    You go grrl!

    To be fair to her, in her case, not teaching is almost certainly an improvement on teaching, as her students apparently noticed.

    You said it better than me.

    Read More
  177. In other Jew News, Trump’s new ambassador is a strong settler advocate and Putin fan. He also favors Assad in Syria. Here’s an article he wrote a year ago:

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/17964

    Russia is going to defeat ISIS. Not with a “coalition” of cowards, freeloaders and hypocrites led from behind by the American president, but all by itself. It will bomb ISIS strongholds, train and arm Syrian soldiers and destroy ISIS resistance until the Islamic State surrenders (unlikely) or ceases to exist (let’s hope).

    And, when Russia defeats ISIS, it will have accomplished something that the United States hasn’t done since 1945 nor Israel since 1973: win a war.

    Governor Mike Huckabee had one of the most memorable quotes of a very memorable series of Republican primary debates. He referred to war as “killing people and breaking things,” that continues until the loser gives up or is destroyed. For thousands of years, that’s what war has been about. Almost every national boundary in both hemispheres has been formed as a result of a battle followed by a surrender.

    But no more, at least not under the current Democratic regime. The United States has the largest and most powerful military in the world. Under the Obama Doctrine, however, it is no longer in the business of fighting to win. Indeed, the Obama Doctrine has been reduced to the following: if you are a terrorist, you may embed yourself among “civilians” and maintain your despicable enterprise until we convince you and your followers of the wisdom of our values. As a result of this nonsense, our enemies are stronger and America is no longer capable of exporting its values and influencing global safety and security.

    Obama and Kerry only want to fight Republicans, not terrorists.

    Read More
  178. @Mike Sylwester
    Lisl Walsh, an Assistant Professor of Classics and Critical Identity Studies, continues to explain to her Eidolon readers how she is dealing with her problem of having "a non-authoritative body" while her students are "a bunch of authoritarians".

    The third principle [that I gleaned from feminist pedagogical theory] is a democratic/consent-based classroom: in general, I try to implement this by taking a lot of votes, asking for consent, and creating elements of choice that engage student agency and investment. .... I try to have them negotiate with me exam dates, project due dates, appropriate paper length requirements, and/or exam questions. ....

    Knowing how to make good use of the instructor is helpful in this regard: an openness about my strengths and weaknesses as an instructor, the fact that I have experience with the subject, that I will be turning in their final grades, and that I can hold them accountable for things allows them to delegate authority to me if and how they want.

    In Roman Civilization, for example, the students explicitly gave me permission to give pop quizzes on the readings whenever I wanted, and as often as I wanted, in order to keep them motivated to keep doing their homework. They might (like the Augustan senate) decide unanimously that they want no part in designing the content for the course and they want you to make all the decisions and be in control of assessing them — but at least in this they have given their consent to hand over authority to the instructor and acknowledged the instructor’s expertise. ....

    I am aware that some of these ideas might seem radical, but I have found them useful for fixing a very specific problem of the postmodern Classics classroom dynamic, and a problem that is perhaps more obstructive for particular physical manifestations of the Classicist professor — female, young (or old!), non-White, non-normatively gendered, not-normatively able-bodied, not a native speaker of English, in a contingent faculty position, graduate student, etc. — where claims to authority are perhaps more contested and questioned ....

    ... I still see some added benefits to incorporating these principles into your classroom: ....

    [....]

    2. Students are practicing precisely the de-naturalizing of norms you might want them to be doing with the course content. By which I mean: if your course uses antiquity in part in order to help students be more aware about the issues in their contemporary world, some of those issues might be power, authority, and privilege. Having students “unpack” or even reorient their assumptions about power in educational environments helps them see more clearly the construction and upholding of these power dynamics.

    [....]

    6. Finally, you have the opportunity to destabilize for your students the very system that is perhaps keeping your less-privileged colleagues from being granted the automatic respect of those same students. You, as the privileged, have more freedom to “train” students to see authority differently.

    [....]

    Gaining your students’ respect by drastically reducing the authority you have over their educational experience may seem paradoxical, but it has worked for me, at least for now (I anticipate as I age, or as my body changes, there will likely be different assumptions made about me) ....
     
    https://eidolon.pub/giving-it-up-in-the-classroom-14c1afcfd69#.95wvserwj

    She sounds like she was an insecure controlling b*tch and rather than blaming herself for her students’ understandable reaction to that, she has constructed a ludicrously complex way to explain it away and save her ego. And hilariously she has grounded her defence mechanism in multicultural victimology mumbo jumbo. Amazing!

    To be fair though, it has allowed her to find a way to be less controlling and insecure while avoiding the hard self-reflection that would normally be required.

    Read More
  179. “Morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true.” Socrates

    I would like to add my voice to those commentators who wonder how bright Ms. Z actually is. That is a risibly crude rant, wholly inappropriate for a classics scholar one would have thought.

    Makes me wonder about Mark Z – did he merely push against a door that modern technology had enabled?

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    Makes me wonder about Mark Z – did he merely push against a door that modern technology had enabled?
     
    Two longtime software entrepreneurs I've known for decades and respected take that view on him. Mark Zuckerberg got lucky, but he was enough of a sharp businessman to see Facebook through the early stages.

    A bit like Bill Gates and his crew, who benefiting from IBM PCs taking off and dominating the business computing market, but Gates gets a lot of credit for making his proprietary operating system grow on top of and evolve, for decades afterward, around the original DOS kernel that he bought cheap back in 1980. He also maintained Microsoft's market dominance in the face of competition and change.

    Zuckerberg and Sandberg have done far less.
  180. She sounds like she was an insecure controlling b*tch and rather than blaming herself for her students’ understandable reaction to that, she has constructed a ludicrously complex way to explain it away and save her ego. And hilariously she has grounded her defence mechanism in multicultural victimology mumbo jumbo. Amazing!

    The New Humanities offer splendid opportunities to work out one’s personal issues through the vehicles of intellectualizing and cogitation and present it all to the world as scholarship. It’s all good, I’m told.

    Read More
  181. @Bill B.
    "Morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true." Socrates


    I would like to add my voice to those commentators who wonder how bright Ms. Z actually is. That is a risibly crude rant, wholly inappropriate for a classics scholar one would have thought.

    Makes me wonder about Mark Z - did he merely push against a door that modern technology had enabled?

    Makes me wonder about Mark Z – did he merely push against a door that modern technology had enabled?

    Two longtime software entrepreneurs I’ve known for decades and respected take that view on him. Mark Zuckerberg got lucky, but he was enough of a sharp businessman to see Facebook through the early stages.

    A bit like Bill Gates and his crew, who benefiting from IBM PCs taking off and dominating the business computing market, but Gates gets a lot of credit for making his proprietary operating system grow on top of and evolve, for decades afterward, around the original DOS kernel that he bought cheap back in 1980. He also maintained Microsoft’s market dominance in the face of competition and change.

    Zuckerberg and Sandberg have done far less.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Credit where credit is due: Zuck didn't invent the social network idea - Friendster and MySpace came before - but he absolutely crushed it. He got a billion people to use his platform and turned Google's effective monopoly on online advertising into a duopoly, and created a profitable, $345 billion market cap company.

    That's just extraordinarily rare, and at his age, rarer still. He's the greatest entrepreneur and CEO of his generation.
  182. @syonredux
    Off-topic,

    Lucia Festival in Sweden. Quite beautiful:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl6o4mG25Ec

    There are strong forces in action trying to destroy Lucia. This year black boys were used as Lucia and there are other things going on.

    War on normal people must not stop!

    Read More
  183. @David
    Remember this Ezra Pound chestnut:

    The thought of what America would be like
    If the Classics had a wide circulation . . .
    Oh well!
    It troubles my sleep.
     
    And these two phrases really demonstrate a devotion to classics:  “crossing the Rubicon,” “ascending to Olympus.” That's like the mile-high club, amirite?

    Speaking of which, where does she get off referring to her field as "classic."

    Her claim that there are in America “a few hundred thousand men” — of any political persuasion — who “love the classics” seems to me more than a little questionable.

    Read More
  184. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Anon
    A lot of academia now believes in nothing but false and ridiculous nonsense. It is well worth reading western literature on its' own terms and not through the distorted lens of left-wing critics and theorists.

    I remember reading "Heart of Darkness", and then reading the "scholarly" commentary and notes that accompanied it in the Penguin edition. It was obvious from a plain reading of the novella, and from what I knew about the author, that the critics had gotten the whole thing wrong. Their interpretation was nothing but re-heated marxist anti-imperialism. The main thrust of the book wasn't even to do with imperialism, and certainly wasn't a critique of it as such. The modern critics didn't understand the story, because they couldn't understand a man like Conrad or the world he lived in.

    The main thrust of the book wasn’t even to do with imperialism

    It wasn’t?

    Read More
  185. @PiltdownMan

    Makes me wonder about Mark Z – did he merely push against a door that modern technology had enabled?
     
    Two longtime software entrepreneurs I've known for decades and respected take that view on him. Mark Zuckerberg got lucky, but he was enough of a sharp businessman to see Facebook through the early stages.

    A bit like Bill Gates and his crew, who benefiting from IBM PCs taking off and dominating the business computing market, but Gates gets a lot of credit for making his proprietary operating system grow on top of and evolve, for decades afterward, around the original DOS kernel that he bought cheap back in 1980. He also maintained Microsoft's market dominance in the face of competition and change.

    Zuckerberg and Sandberg have done far less.

    Credit where credit is due: Zuck didn’t invent the social network idea – Friendster and MySpace came before – but he absolutely crushed it. He got a billion people to use his platform and turned Google’s effective monopoly on online advertising into a duopoly, and created a profitable, $345 billion market cap company.

    That’s just extraordinarily rare, and at his age, rarer still. He’s the greatest entrepreneur and CEO of his generation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Allright, except that it's not very - ehem roman or greek (= "cllassic"), to claim, that the most successful would be the greatest. It's classical indeed though to go as far as to claim, that success - sucks... (Socrates, Seneca, Petronius, Epikur, Mark Aurel, Zeno, Augustine...).
    , @Almost Missouri
    Tech industry success often stems from something boring but important hiding in plain sight.

    Example: Microsoft's OS wasn't first or best best, but Gates had long been obsessed with the boring but important technical and financial detail that most OS users never paid for their OS. Gates's greatest achievement? DOS? No. Windows? No. Making a dozen biddable manufacturers his paying customers instead of a billion anarchic end-users? YES!

    Example: All networks are by definition social. What is different about Facebook? Zuckerberg found the right formula to make the resource producers: the "users" (actually the used) produce output for the real customers: marketers and advertisers. Previous social network entrepreneurs were misled by surface appearances into thinking that the users were the customers. Reality: users = cattle; advertisers = slaughterhouse. How To Serve Man indeed.

    , @Anon
    "He got a billion people to use his platform and turned Google’s effective monopoly on online advertising into a duopoly, and created a profitable, $345 billion market cap company."

    I find this interesting because i can't remember single piece of advertising I saw on facebook.
    , @candid_observer
    Look, the extraordinarily fast domination of Facebook in its market is a testament to two things: the relative simplicity of the underlying software required to create a viable platform, and the power of network effects.

    The basic fact is that, due to network effects, one standard in Facebook's social media realm had to prevail, and the sooner the better. The window for winning this monopoly was open only for a few years, in the early stages of settling on a standard, and it happened that Facebook had the platform most appealing to the majority of users. It is quite plausible that a good portion of this attraction was the snob appeal of a platform based on the print version of Facebook used at Harvard. This gave it immediate press -- for the media worships Harvard like nothing else -- and pulled in influencers of all types.

    Once a monopoly like this is established, it's almost impossible for it to be lost, given the inherent advantages. Zuckerberg has managed not to lose it.

    And the size of the monopoly, and so the money it commands, hangs almost entirely on the size of the market itself. The market for a social media platform like Facebook has turned out to be quite enormous, and rose very quickly indeed.

    At least it can be said of Bill Gates that he built his monopoly very painstakingly, over many years. Indeed, one of the reasons he managed to do so is because virtually no one but he had the vision to see the potential size of the market -- certainly not IBM, which made concessions to him in their contracts that gave away the long game to Microsoft.

    What did Facebook require for adoption by hundreds of millions of users? Some simple software and vast hordes of internet connections. The internet connections were already there, and the software took a year or two at most to put in place.

    It's often been said that monopolies won't exist anymore in the technology realm because technology changes so fast. This is the opposite of the truth. In realms like the Internet, monopolies need to be everywhere, to take advantage of network effects, and to be established as fast as possible.

    , @res

    That’s just extraordinarily rare, and at his age, rarer still. He’s the greatest entrepreneur and CEO of his generation.
     
    I'll be more of a believer in that once I've seen Facebook go through some real adversity.

    What Zuckerberg attributes do you think made/make him so successful? How successful do you think he would have been in any other time (micro scale, think business and technology cycles) or place (company/field scale)?

    He's a smart guy AFAICT, but I don't think he is in the same intellectual class as Bill Gates and Paul Allen. And Microsoft also enjoyed a lot of situational advantage and luck along with an assist from good negotiation and legal contract work early.

    Two things I give Zuckerberg massive credit for are:
    1. He is well on his way to matching what I consider Bill Gates's signature achievement--managing a company from zero to world dominance himself (see adversity comment above for why I don't give full credit yet).
    2. Masterfully identifying and exploiting a market opportunity of a lifetime. While still maintaining full control.

    Perhaps that is enough to justify "greatest entrepreneur and CEO of his generation"?

    One more thing, how do you compare Zuckerberg to Page and Brin?

    P.S. To support my not the same class statement above I'll just note there are no Mark Zuckerberg in Math 55 type stories (that I have seen) and link to this for a bit more detail: https://www.quora.com/Was-Mark-Zuckerberg-one-of-the-top-students-academically-at-Harvard
  186. @Anonymous
    OT

    The NYT is too (((white))):

    https://twitter.com/BrentNYT/status/810242590280912896

    Ah yes,

    Revolution, Devour Thine Own!

    Read More
  187. Holy cow this ‘Dr’ Zuckerperson needs medication and therapy to deal with her anger issues vs white men and western civilization. Sounds like she has gone off the deep end. She is in good company today, of course, and she could take most of the female humanities ‘professors’ in the US with her. And that person from Cambridge who ‘studies’ classics (does one get a paycheck for studying classics @ Cambridge?). Take your pills, ladies, do some meditation and deep breathing, just let it go….. good grief what a bunch of froot loops feminism has wrought. I get a kick out of watching spineless jellyfish university administrators and their fellow liberal pussies going through mental and verbal contortions in trying to take these people seriously.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Another possibility is that Dr. Zuckerberg finds herself unaccountably attracted to Aryan Richard Spencer-type men, just as her brother is attracted to feminine East Asian girls.
  188. @Langley
    Regression towards the mean.

    Would you mind if I’d cross out “towards the mean” in your sentence?

    The word left then in your comment could be enough:

    Regression.

    Read More
  189. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Shine a Light
    As the SJW-Left seeks to protect its recently gained institutional power, the Right must respond be revisiting some to the tools the formerly disempowered Left used to gain power. Among them is Marxism, the Frankfurt School with its Critical Theory, Foucault, and of course Edward Said's "Orientalism".

    Donna Zuckerberg is blatantly asserting her cultural hegemony over marginalized white men by attempting to appropriate their precious cultural inheritance passed down to them by the Great White Men of antiquity. Can you imagine the outrage if a group of Goyim tried to monopolize the study of the Torah because Likudniks had been using it to justify oppressing Palestinians?

    Although most don't realize it, much of the alt-Right derives from the works of French philosopher Alain de Benoist; who identifies as a pagan and prefers polytheism over monotheism. And so indeed as time goes on the alt-Right is going to delve deeper and deeper into their cultural heritage and the Classics are going to become more and more influential as America turns alt-Right intellectually and spiritually. Red-pilled parents will be pushing their school systems to dump the Manderin immersion and to teach their children Ancient Greek instead. Embracing the Classics will soon be an open sign of dissidence against the rot brought on by an illegitimate elite in the Western world.

    Feminists/SJW are blatantly engaging in Occidentalism in attempting to fetishize and marginalize the oeuvre of the Great White Men. And so to paraphrase a yet to appear alt-Right Edward Said: the praxis of cultural imperialism reduces (essentializes) those Great White Men as culturally static and intellectually undeveloped; the fabrication of cultural superiority is that alt-Right culture is a thing (an Other) that can be studied, depicted, and reproduced. Implicit to the Occidentalist fabrication is the culturally opposite idea that Feminist/SJW society is developed, rational, flexible, and thereby superior, whilst Alt-Right intellectuals are inferior for being undeveloped, irrational, and inflexible. This results in the alienation of white men when confronted with the reification of SJW superiority in the form of restrictions and barriers to the study of the Great White Men.

    Although most don’t realize it, much of the alt-Right derives from the works of French philosopher Alain de Benoist

    I’d argue that the more traditionalist sect of the alt-Right stems from the works of the Catholic French Counter-Enlightenment philosophers like Maistre and Bonald, and more recently, G.K. Chesterton while the atheist and neo-Paganist sects stem from the philosophy of Nietzsche (specifically, the idea that “God is dead” and it is up to man to create morality). Both are united in an honesty and clarity of purpose as well as a common enemy. Furthermore, both views are far more consistent than the Enlightenment doctrines asserting certain “truths to be self-evident” which are clearly not self-evident; the alt-Right rejects Rationalism (though not rationality nor science) and utilitarianism.

    The greatest difference between the alt-Right and the Enlightenment philosophies is in the idea of “self-evident truths.” The traditionalist sect asserts morality derives only from God. The atheist/neo-Paganist view is that morality is man’s power over man. The philosophies stemming from the Enlightenment state that morality is “self-evident.” The alt-Right is concrete, the Enlightenment is not.

    Criticism and comment welcome.

    Side note: I do feel that I understand the philosophy behind the traditionalist sect of the alt-Right far better than I do the atheist and neo-Paganist sects.

    Read More
  190. @Dave Pinsen
    Credit where credit is due: Zuck didn't invent the social network idea - Friendster and MySpace came before - but he absolutely crushed it. He got a billion people to use his platform and turned Google's effective monopoly on online advertising into a duopoly, and created a profitable, $345 billion market cap company.

    That's just extraordinarily rare, and at his age, rarer still. He's the greatest entrepreneur and CEO of his generation.

    Allright, except that it’s not very – ehem roman or greek (= “cllassic”), to claim, that the most successful would be the greatest. It’s classical indeed though to go as far as to claim, that success – sucks… (Socrates, Seneca, Petronius, Epikur, Mark Aurel, Zeno, Augustine…).

    Read More
  191. P.S. Here’s Dr. Zuckerberg’s Facebook page, Sugar Mountain Treats, of delicious-looking desserts she bakes.

    And here’s the (future) classic Neil Young:

    “Oh, to live on Sugar Mountain
    With the barkers and the colored balloons,
    You can’t be twenty on Sugar Mountain
    Though you’re thinking that
    you’re leaving there too soon,
    You’re leaving there too soon.

    It’s so noisy at the fair
    But all your friends are there
    And the candy floss you had
    And your mother and your dad.”

    Read More
  192. @Buck Turgidson
    Holy cow this 'Dr' Zuckerperson needs medication and therapy to deal with her anger issues vs white men and western civilization. Sounds like she has gone off the deep end. She is in good company today, of course, and she could take most of the female humanities 'professors' in the US with her. And that person from Cambridge who 'studies' classics (does one get a paycheck for studying classics @ Cambridge?). Take your pills, ladies, do some meditation and deep breathing, just let it go..... good grief what a bunch of froot loops feminism has wrought. I get a kick out of watching spineless jellyfish university administrators and their fellow liberal pussies going through mental and verbal contortions in trying to take these people seriously.

    Another possibility is that Dr. Zuckerberg finds herself unaccountably attracted to Aryan Richard Spencer-type men, just as her brother is attracted to feminine East Asian girls.

    Read More
    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • LOL: Almost Missouri, Abe
    • Replies: @Anon
    "feminine East Asian girls"

    Zuck's wife is NOT feminine. She looks like a rough peasant girl with tree trunk legs.
    , @frayedthread
    Richard S. will scatter the Zuck, drive him before him, reduce his fortune to ashes, shroud those who love him in tears, and will gather Donna, Arielle and Randi into his bosom. Finally he'll move in on Priscilla and Fakebook's foundering founder will be rightfully yclept Cuckerberg.
    , @Calafia
    Sorry Steve, bad news for Spencer and other cute fashboys: Z is married to a fellow Princeton classics scholar. In their quest for diversity the couple moved from Princeton (6% black) to midtown Palo Alto (1.5% black).

    (They were misinformed.)

    As consolation I offer this news item from 2012:

    Donna Zuckerberg, PhD candidate, is the recipient of the 2012 Winkler Memorial Prize ... intended to honor the memory of John J. ("Jack") Winkler, a classical scholar, teacher, and political activist for radical causes both within and outside the academy, who died of AIDS in 1990 at the age of 46.

    Jack believed that the profession as a whole discourages young scholars from exploring neglected or disreputable topics ... the John J. Winkler Memorial trust awards a cash prize each year to the author of the best undergraduate or graduate essay in any risky or marginal field of classical studies. Topics include (but are not limited to) those that Jack himself explored: the ancient novel, the sex/gender systems of antiquity, the social meanings of Greek drama, and ancient Mediterranean culture and society. Approaches include (but are not limited to) those that Jack's own work exemplified: feminism, anthropology, narratology, semiotics, cultural studies, ethnic studies, and lesbian/gay studies.

     

  193. @Daniel Chieh
    " They are younger than the typical conservative establishment, white, and male."

    But I'm not white and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don't exist.

    ” ‘They are younger than the typical conservative establishment, white, and male.’

    But I’m not white and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don’t exist.”

    I’m not young or male and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don’t exist even less than you do.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    "I’m not young or male and I identify as alt-right. Clearly I don’t exist even less than you do."

    Now, now. There really should not be a victimhood Olympics on the alt-right. The left fills that niche quite nicely. ; )
  194. @German_reader
    "On one of their podcasts, they actually started talking about how the German language is not gendered……"

    lol, funny. I've only read Spencer's (now deleted) Twitter account and don't intend to delve any further into alt right memes, but your description of it as LARPing seems fitting. Also often left intentionally ambiguous if it's meant somewhat ironically or totally seriously.
    Pretty demented stuff, but to some degree I can understand why it attracts people.

    Last I checked, his Twitter account was re-instated and he’s back at it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Wow, you're right, I wonder how he managed to get back there. Thanks for the information!