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The Establishment is freaking out over one unknown Google worker circulating a well-reasoned dissent against all the anti-white male propagandizing and programs that Google has subjected their hardworking employees to in recent years.

Keep in mind that during the triumphant years in which Google ascended to its near monopoly status, it didn’t pay much attention to the diversity rules imposed upon the rest of society, because, after all, it was Google and hi-tech and so it didn’t have to obey. But as I long predicted, the diversity rent-seekers eventually got their hooks into Google over the last few years so now Google has a full panoply of makework jobs in the diversity racket to attack verbally the people who actually get the work done. Now, one of the workers has written back.

 
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  1. anon says: • Disclaimer

    This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Is he so ignorant that he hasn’t even noticed how the majority of the important scientists featured on Google’s own website are Women Of Color?

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    • LOL: Desiderius
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  2. Osten says:

    Google software teams on fire now.
    Algorithmize, sift, filter, identify.
    Publicize, shame, eviscerate.

    Where is Eric Schmidt?

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato
    I support this updated Half-Life 2 reference, Anticitizen.
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  3. Its amazing how up their own asses the commenters on the gizmodo article are that they don’t realise they’re highlighting the points he makes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @You All Look Like Ants
    >>> Its amazing how up their own asses the commenters on the gizmodo article are that they don’t realise they’re highlighting the points he makes.
    Those women talking about how upset they are - "...still shaking with rage..." really should think twice.
    , @ScarletNumber
    When you consider that Gizmodo was part of Gawker Media, it shouldn't be amazing at all.
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  4. AM says:

    It seems like the author has been watching Jordan Peterson. The Google letter uses Peterson’s vocabulary almost verbatim in talking about differences in the genders and social biases.

    Update: Someone else made the same observation on Vox Day’s blog.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    This video, featuring Jordan Peterson, a PhD student of his named Christine Brophy and Lauren Southern on how sex differences relate to SJWs, is very interesting. This relates directly to the games Googles play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_fBYROA7Hk
    , @Sam Patch
    I was just about to post the EXACT same thing. Sounds like Peterson's talking points to a T (and me likey)
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  5. There’s not nearly enough attacking feminists for their hypocrisy. Someone who genuinely thought that the outcomes between the sexes ought to be equal would be much more pleasant than the garden variety feminist bigot who is only bothered by the (ever shrinking) list of areas where men still excel and prove useful. It’s even common for feminists to cite female success, not as evidence of bias but as evidence that women ought to be beating men in other areas (e.g. citing the fact that the majority of biology degrees goto women as evidence that women ought to earn the majority of degrees in all sciences).

    And I say that someone interested in true equality of outcome would be a lot more pleasant but that’s really just a guess because I am literally totally unaware of anyone like that.

    And of course all this applies more generally to PC, where it’s only ever certain groups whose success gets questioned and what’s presented as a movement for equality is really about securing supremacy for the favored.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    He paints an entirely too charitable picture of the left in general. They are anything but "well intentioned;" they are grasping vindictive scum.
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  6. anon says: • Disclaimer

    So far, all of the responses I’ve seen to this are just declaring what this memo is, and saying that it’s bad, usually in some sort of childish slang. Like this.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/08/05/google-anti-diversity-document-criticism/

    Although, I guess that’s all you need when you’re on the right side of history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jay-w
    " ...So far, all of the responses I’ve seen to this are just declaring what this memo is, and saying that it’s bad, usually in some sort of childish slang ..."

    That is what makes the whole thing so scary and tragic instead of amusing: These people are supposedly the best and the brightest of the new generation, but the only thing they can do is resort to ad hominum attacks and temper tantrums instead of engaging the guy (I'm assuming it's a guy) on the merits of his arguments in any kind of reasoned debate.
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  7. Finally someone at Google has challenged our tech elites’ childish and damaging utopianism with our ancestors’ time -tested tragic view of man. I just find it hilarious that things have gotten so out of whack at Google that the traditional world view looks “disruptive” now.

    Progressive utopianism began as an intellectual fad in the Enlightenment about 250 years, and we have enough of a baseline of experience with its various notions that we can see that a lot of it doesn’t work; we should discard it in favor of the politically incorrect things which have worked over the centuries and which continue to get the necessary jobs done in the here and now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    I just find it hilarious that things have gotten so out of whack at Google that the traditional world view looks “disruptive” now....Progressive utopianism began as an intellectual fad in the Enlightenment about 250 years,
     
    Have you convinced yourself of enough of the Christian worldview to see if you can drag yourself into a church yet?

    "Advanced atheist" is one the key concepts on the road to right here. Google simply has enough money and power to take a lack of God to it's logical conclusions.

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  8. Yan Shen says:

    Of course the irony here is that Google, like most elite tech companies in Silicon Valley, actually has a slight under-representation of whites in technical roles relative to their overall population percentage.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/google-diversity-statistics-2017-2017-6

    At Google it appears that whites make up 53% of those in technical roles, while Asians make up 39%, which is vastly disproportionate to their overall percentage among the population. Someone like Jared Taylor will quickly point that out in response to liberals complaining about the status quo.

    Below is a rare instance where even a progressive site like the Young Turks latches on to this fact.

    Males though are still over-represented I suppose, so maybe the uh gender angle is valid…

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    I'd also bet the foreign-born contingent of most of these companies' workforces and applicant pools skews overwhelmingly male, but you're not supposed to notice that, you're just supposed to assume the raw gender balance is an accurate measure of discrimination against American women.
    , @Anti-anti Gentilist
    Moreover, a large fraction of the "whites" are no doubt Jewish. Probably only 30–40% of Google's tech employees are white gentile men, in a country where they're 70% of the workforce. This puts the lie to any claims that what matters is improving the representation of "underrepresented" groups.
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  9. Shrug. Google’s diversity BS is just an innoculation against the media attacking them like they’ve been attacking Uber. It’s just the cost of doing business.

    Read More
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  10. Anonym says:

    It’s interesting, at first I was in agreeance, and as I read on, I realized that this is criticism “firmly” planted on the quicksand of leftist axioms. See:

    I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I think we should strive for more.

    Fundamentally, is it a good thing to be pushing the very smartest females in the nation (the very smartest people Google, Microsoft, and other major and competent tech firms are known to pursue with a vengeance, male or female) into a demanding career during their prime reproductive years, so that they end up only having 1 or 2 children at most? Maybe it’s ok when a small percentage do it, but when it is done on an industrial scale with massive propaganda drives to encourage it – it’s profoundly sick, immoral and wrong. Hell no, it’s not ok. It creates a dumber society in the long term.

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged? Why should only high IQ/drive/ability men be de facto allowed to have large families? If we had any sense as a society, we’d be identifying such women and propagandizing them to have large families and for men to seek these women out for that purpose. And we would brand as evil those propaganda efforts to effectively partially sterilize them (in a way, creating what amounts to a female eunuch) in the name of corporate greed and insane leftism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @U. Ranus
    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged?

    Because otherwise the high concentrations of imported smart goys in these high IQ tech places might do what Herrnstein warned about in The Bell Curve and mate their way into a new Tribe, where everybody is smart, everybody is everybody else's third cousin, everybody has everybody else's back... yet nobody is particularly jewish.

    , @Desiderius

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged?
     
    Tragedy of the commons. Smaller family sizes-->smart girls pressured to carry on the family name/support parents through high achievement. Daughters filling the roles of missing sons.
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  11. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Just as some on the Right deny science that runs counter to the “God > humans > environment” hierarchy (e.g., evolution and climate change) the Left tends to deny science concerning biological differences between people (e.g., IQ[8] and sex differences). Thankfully, climate scientists and evolutionary biologists generally aren’t on the right.

    This seemed a little unfair. If you really think that there are no differences between the sexes, you’d have to doubt evolution quite a bit.

    Read More
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  12. Someone just nailed his Theses to the Cathedral door.

    I imagine the response will be just as outrageous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Martin Luther wasn't the saint some people think he was. He trusted in princes and sons of men, and the princes in whom he trusted siezed Church land for their own benefit. Sola scriptura lead to the notion that monasticism was not in the Bible (except it was when Jesus went into the desert for 40 days) and therefore monasticism should be abolished. When it was, the land went to the princes. So Luther, an honest heretic, was no Henry VIII, but he enabled German princes who were like Henry VIII.

    The Catholic Church was very corrupt at the time (this has returned); however, the Protestants, some more than others, threw the baby out with the bath water as far as doctrine, liturgy, and church governance are concerned. They also divided into many small denominations; this was also more true of some than of others.
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  13. syonredux says:

    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “

    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM
    Danielle's Letter Translated: Shut up, engineering department.

    Thus the unholy convergence of paganism and a lot of money in a corporate environment continues unabated.
    , @anon

    And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.
     
    Well, that's awfully convenient, isn't it?

    But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.
     
    Future memo writers would be wise not to ask how an anti-discrimination law could possibly affect the truth or falsehood of any biologically-based arguments, I'm sure.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender.
     
    "Well that's that, folks. You heard it from the head of diversity, integrity and governance. Debate's over. Tomorrow's a busy day. You guys tote the podium and overhead projectors back to the storage room and lock up. You ladies gather up the leftovers in that tupperware, and take care of those spills on the carpet."
    , @Clyde

    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land.....blah blab blah...
     

    Is Danielle black or white? Either way here is your diversity rent seeker apparatchik in her high paying make work job.In cases like this a photo is helpful but I don't see any. She is living proof how women latch onto male achievement in the tech fields. They cannot do tech so they babble away. Drink enough free coffee at the Googleplex and you can babble away until infinity.
    , @Pericles
    Diversity Commissar Danielle Brown speaks. It is rather funny to see these sleek previously-unquestioned fatties flip out, march off without deigning to argue, start wobbling with rage and getting transported to Google Safe Space when someone dares to dissent. The whole collective reaction is parodic maoistic 1984, of course, but they will still destroy you if you dare to laugh. ("Incontinentia ... Buttocks!")

    Monothought is Diversity! Silencing is Openness! Reeeing is Tolerance! And of course, Incompetence is Competence!
    , @Mr. Anon
    Here is a picture of Google's Special Commissar for Diversity, Strelnikov Danielle Brown

    She doesn't seem to be wearing enough flair (but, that's her choice), so I question how committed she is to the team.

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  14. L Woods says:
    @Guy de Champlagne
    There's not nearly enough attacking feminists for their hypocrisy. Someone who genuinely thought that the outcomes between the sexes ought to be equal would be much more pleasant than the garden variety feminist bigot who is only bothered by the (ever shrinking) list of areas where men still excel and prove useful. It's even common for feminists to cite female success, not as evidence of bias but as evidence that women ought to be beating men in other areas (e.g. citing the fact that the majority of biology degrees goto women as evidence that women ought to earn the majority of degrees in all sciences).

    And I say that someone interested in true equality of outcome would be a lot more pleasant but that's really just a guess because I am literally totally unaware of anyone like that.

    And of course all this applies more generally to PC, where it's only ever certain groups whose success gets questioned and what's presented as a movement for equality is really about securing supremacy for the favored.

    He paints an entirely too charitable picture of the left in general. They are anything but “well intentioned;” they are grasping vindictive scum.

    Read More
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  15. wren says:

    I seem to recall that when Obama had to staff his only mission-critical operations — his own election and reelection teams, his data analysts were pretty pale and male.

    Didn’t Google’s Schmidt also get involved?

    I can no longer find a picture of Obama’s digital dream team though…

    Read More
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  16. AM says:
    @syonredux
    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “


    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Danielle’s Letter Translated: Shut up, engineering department.

    Thus the unholy convergence of paganism and a lot of money in a corporate environment continues unabated.

    Read More
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  17. syonredux says:

    Responses at GIZMODO are appropriately WOKE:

    is trying to justify their racism with a misunderstanding of social science.
    They are not even trying to hide their racism. They used the word ‘race’ 8 times in the document.

    You know who thinks there are different races of people; colonialists and racists.

    Humanity is one race, one species, with multiple ethnicities. This person does not see other ethnicities as being the same species as themself.

    Right! It’s almost like people who go to better schools and are exposed to more educated people in their immediate vicinities and interactions might have an opportunity to increase their IQs that someone less advantaged wouldn’t. Not like anyone is born with a 170

    Thus answering the question I didn’t realized I had, “if you put a sociopathic technocrat in a a room with nothing but a word processor and the sound of his own voice, what would he write?”

    I believe he’s frustrated that not all people are men who look like him. The struggle is real.

    Of course, here-and-there, some un-WOKE comments can be found:

    Welp, this is gonna be a fun commment’s section.

    I do think he brings up some good points. One point being, we should be able to discuss this without instantly shaming/closing off the opposing viewpoint.

    “…One point being, we should be able to discuss this without instantly shaming/closing off the opposing viewpoint.”

    90+% of the comments contain ad hominem attacks against the Google Guy.

    So much for reasonable discourse, huh?

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Well, the thing about "Diversity Officers" is that nobody in engineering respects them, even if they fear them for the damage they can do.

    But even the VP of Engineering got in on the act. That's going to be hard to stomach for those with independent minds. Nobody wants to be "led" by a cretin.

    , @guest
    "You know who thinks there are different races of people"

    Everyone.

    Seriously, I don't believe any adult of sound mind who wasn't raised in an isolation tank doesn't think there's such a thing as race. It's obvious.

    Some people deny the sun will rise tomorrow morning. I don't believe them either.
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  18. AM says:
    @advancedatheist
    Finally someone at Google has challenged our tech elites' childish and damaging utopianism with our ancestors' time -tested tragic view of man. I just find it hilarious that things have gotten so out of whack at Google that the traditional world view looks "disruptive" now.

    Progressive utopianism began as an intellectual fad in the Enlightenment about 250 years, and we have enough of a baseline of experience with its various notions that we can see that a lot of it doesn't work; we should discard it in favor of the politically incorrect things which have worked over the centuries and which continue to get the necessary jobs done in the here and now.

    I just find it hilarious that things have gotten so out of whack at Google that the traditional world view looks “disruptive” now….Progressive utopianism began as an intellectual fad in the Enlightenment about 250 years,

    Have you convinced yourself of enough of the Christian worldview to see if you can drag yourself into a church yet?

    “Advanced atheist” is one the key concepts on the road to right here. Google simply has enough money and power to take a lack of God to it’s logical conclusions.

    Read More
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  19. JerryC says:

    So what does Google do when they track this guy down? Fire him? Make him recant and then fire him? Publicly defenestrate him?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    So what does Google do when they track this guy down? Fire him? Make him recant and then fire him? Publicly defenestrate him?
     
    Make him recant and then fire him. We've done this script many times before.
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  20. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux
    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “


    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Well, that’s awfully convenient, isn’t it?

    But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    Future memo writers would be wise not to ask how an anti-discrimination law could possibly affect the truth or falsehood of any biologically-based arguments, I’m sure.

    Read More
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  21. The VP of Engineering at Google — to whom the writer of the document reports — had this to say:P

    I’d like to respond to the “pc-considered-harmful” post. Questioning our assumptions and sharing different perspectives is an important part of our culture, and we want to continue fostering an environment where it’s safe to engage in challenging conversations in a thoughtful way. But, in the process of doing that, we cannot allow stereotyping and harmful assumptions to play any part. One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful.

    Yeah, that’s a really open, scientific mind you’ve got there.

    Moron.

    Our elite is idiots.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/08/05/google-diversity-head-response-to-document/

    Read More
    • Agree: L Woods
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    I especially like how this cretin begins his paragraph by saying we should "question our assumptions" and then ends with deploring "the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way."

    Well done, Idiot savant -- big I and little s.

    These are the mentalities who think they should rule our world.

    , @BEER/ we're all going to die
    No. Our "elites" are not idiots so much, they are dishonest. Our "elites" are lying, game playing, manipulative, creeps. 21st century two faced court eunuchs.
    , @Anonymous
    Somehow I doubt that one can get to be VP of Engineering at Google (maybe VP of Diversity, OK...) without KNOWING that this is absolute nonsense.
    For instance...
    I'll hazard a generalization here...
    I'll probably never get hired at Google, but I think something needs to be said...
    MOST MEN have a desire for sexual intercourse with women.
    Wait, there's more...
    MOST WOMEN have a desire for sexual intercourse with men.
    Indeed...
    I think... it could even be said.... that the very EXISTENCE of humanity hinges on this!

    We don't just sorta kinda live in 1984 in a metaphorical way. This VP is a doubleplusgood duckspeaker.
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  22. If there are no discernible gender differences, how can everyone tell this was written by a man?

    Read More
    • LOL: Hibernian
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  23. @candid_observer
    The VP of Engineering at Google -- to whom the writer of the document reports -- had this to say:P

    I’d like to respond to the “pc-considered-harmful” post. Questioning our assumptions and sharing different perspectives is an important part of our culture, and we want to continue fostering an environment where it’s safe to engage in challenging conversations in a thoughtful way. But, in the process of doing that, we cannot allow stereotyping and harmful assumptions to play any part. One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful.
     
    Yeah, that's a really open, scientific mind you've got there.

    Moron.

    Our elite is idiots.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/08/05/google-diversity-head-response-to-document/

    I especially like how this cretin begins his paragraph by saying we should “question our assumptions” and then ends with deploring “the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way.”

    Well done, Idiot savant — big I and little s.

    These are the mentalities who think they should rule our world.

    Read More
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  24. Peterike says:

    That guy wouldn’t have written that were Trump not elected. The Deplorables are finding their voice.

    Read More
    • Agree: NickG
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  25. @syonredux
    Responses at GIZMODO are appropriately WOKE:

    is trying to justify their racism with a misunderstanding of social science.
    They are not even trying to hide their racism. They used the word ‘race’ 8 times in the document.

    You know who thinks there are different races of people; colonialists and racists.

    Humanity is one race, one species, with multiple ethnicities. This person does not see other ethnicities as being the same species as themself.
     

    Right! It’s almost like people who go to better schools and are exposed to more educated people in their immediate vicinities and interactions might have an opportunity to increase their IQs that someone less advantaged wouldn’t. Not like anyone is born with a 170
     

    Thus answering the question I didn’t realized I had, “if you put a sociopathic technocrat in a a room with nothing but a word processor and the sound of his own voice, what would he write?”
     

    I believe he’s frustrated that not all people are men who look like him. The struggle is real.
     
    Of course, here-and-there, some un-WOKE comments can be found:

    Welp, this is gonna be a fun commment’s section.

    I do think he brings up some good points. One point being, we should be able to discuss this without instantly shaming/closing off the opposing viewpoint.
     

    “...One point being, we should be able to discuss this without instantly shaming/closing off the opposing viewpoint.”

    90+% of the comments contain ad hominem attacks against the Google Guy.

    So much for reasonable discourse, huh?
     
    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Well, the thing about “Diversity Officers” is that nobody in engineering respects them, even if they fear them for the damage they can do.

    But even the VP of Engineering got in on the act. That’s going to be hard to stomach for those with independent minds. Nobody wants to be “led” by a cretin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/queer-engineering-purdue-social-justice-warriors/
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  26. Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Barnard
    My guess would be they let him get doxed and then in the name of fostering an open, inclusive environment, let his coworkers bully, harass and generally make working at Google miserable for him until he retaliates against one of them and they make him take a buyout.
    , @jimbo
    I am sure the best minds at Google are currently working on algorithms to analyze his writing to pinpoint him so that he might be... ahem... "relocated".
    , @Hibernian
    1 to 1000
    , @SonOfStrom
    It will certainly be a good test of his skill as an engineer. Let's hope for his sake he's covered his tracks well.
    , @Desiderius
    Yeah, starting out with three disclaimers is not the way to go. He might as well be wearing a "fire me" sign.
    , @James Richard
    Actually having him admit to and abjectly apologize publicly for his thought crimes will be Google's goal. After admitting that he really truly does love Big Brother, he will then begin a second career as a reformed racist and go around and give pep talks to minority 8th graders about why they should pursue a STEM career.
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  27. Whiskey says: • Website

    I’m sure there are some Hedge fund guys now considering when and where to short Google. In the short and medium run they can go on like they have been, but the barrier to entry into search/advertising is not particularly high.

    Google’s advantage has been in their engineers finding out better ways to find out user preferences and serve ads against those preferences. Google already faces challenges from around 50% or so of advertising clicks and views being fraudulent; “official” stats are around 40% but it is almost certainly higher. Some advertisers have already dumped online advertising entirely for TV broadcasts; at least there the Neilsen numbers if questionable are not 50% fake.

    Running out talented White guys in favor of LaQuisha might give the Cuckservative White dudes running Google a diversity thrill (up their leg) like true manly men of manliness. But how is that going to stack up against the AI led challenges devised by some dude in a garage leveraging the amazingly cheap power on demand of Amazon Web Services? Or lead a place like Amazon or Baidu or heck a Putin led outfit to be the “place for White guys.”

    Israel’s Unit “Whatever” that acts as both military intelligence technology development lab and their tech segment incubator is not exactly embracing diversity. Heck a smart company could offer their White male employees a refuge and gain a competitive advantage over a Google run by LaQuisha.

    That’s not going to happen overnight — but it will happen.

    Read More
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  28. Roger says: • Website

    From Google: “I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.” … “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “

    She has a funny idea about what “open” means. She could have linked to the document, and explained where it goes wrong. That should have been more convincing if she had good facts and arguments to support her opinions. Instead, she mainly hopes that fewer people read the essay.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chief Seattle
    I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    "Not going to link to it," is an interesting pre-search-engine way to hide something which is only as far away as speaking "Google employee racist screed" into your phone and glancing at the top results. Although if I was a Google employee I'd use Bing for the search to confuse the corporate tracking.

    My thoughts reading the blog was that this is well written, completely reasonable, and shows a lot of inside knowledge of the Google hiring and promotional process. All of the internal lingo like "PERF" was used very fluently and naturally. Seems legit and like someone who has been there for quite a few years. It does have a classical liberal viewpoint, of the "affirmative action is still racism" variety rather than the "send them back to Africa" blowhard that some of the commenters here seem to have today.
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  29. AM says:

    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    Given the official response back, I’d say it’s very high. Google is lost to progressive la la land.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Tiny chance but would be completely hilarious: the author is a woman.

    My prediction: Google will not officially identify him but he will be doxed by coworkers nevertheless. Most Google employees are PC-poisoned to the core and would do anything to protect their beliefs.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    There was an incident about 10 years ago where Google had a company wide meeting and announced that everyone was getting a 10% raise and some guy leaked it. The story I heard (from a Googler) was that each email they sent was encoded with some invisible white space characters (tabs, carriage returns, etc.) that identified the recipient. They tracked they guy down within the hour and escorted him from the building. https://www.wired.com/2010/11/google-fires-memo-leaker/

    Printers can be set to do similar things.

    Moral of the story: never use your own phone or email account.
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  30. Barnard says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    My guess would be they let him get doxed and then in the name of fostering an open, inclusive environment, let his coworkers bully, harass and generally make working at Google miserable for him until he retaliates against one of them and they make him take a buyout.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Thea
    I think some will thank him for saying what they know but are afraid to say.
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  31. jimbo says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    I am sure the best minds at Google are currently working on algorithms to analyze his writing to pinpoint him so that he might be… ahem… “relocated”.

    Read More
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  32. Cagey Beast says: • Website
    @AM
    It seems like the author has been watching Jordan Peterson. The Google letter uses Peterson's vocabulary almost verbatim in talking about differences in the genders and social biases.

    Update: Someone else made the same observation on Vox Day's blog.

    This video, featuring Jordan Peterson, a PhD student of his named Christine Brophy and Lauren Southern on how sex differences relate to SJWs, is very interesting. This relates directly to the games Googles play.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seneca
    Thanks for the link. Great discussion.

    Also two gorgeous brilliant conservative young ladies who are easy on the eyes...how refreshing!
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  33. Hibernian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    1 to 1000

    Read More
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  34. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    Google should stop worrying about this SJW stuff and instead put together a crack team to get the Plan 9 operating system’s desktop up and running again. One of the guys at Google who works on their Go language project also posted videos on the dormant Plan 9 OS and it looks pretty cool. They need to kick-start a Manhattan Project on that pronto.

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  35. @Anatoly Karlin
    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    It will certainly be a good test of his skill as an engineer. Let’s hope for his sake he’s covered his tracks well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    Vox Day has named the author:

    http://voxday.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/suppressing-dissent-at-google.html
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  36. jay-w says:
    @anon
    So far, all of the responses I've seen to this are just declaring what this memo is, and saying that it's bad, usually in some sort of childish slang. Like this.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/08/05/google-anti-diversity-document-criticism/

    Although, I guess that's all you need when you're on the right side of history.

    ” …So far, all of the responses I’ve seen to this are just declaring what this memo is, and saying that it’s bad, usually in some sort of childish slang …”

    That is what makes the whole thing so scary and tragic instead of amusing: These people are supposedly the best and the brightest of the new generation, but the only thing they can do is resort to ad hominum attacks and temper tantrums instead of engaging the guy (I’m assuming it’s a guy) on the merits of his arguments in any kind of reasoned debate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Conversions are forbidden in post modernism.

    Shout down to silence, nothing more.

    Jordan Peterson is the deep cool springs of knowledge. Eternal Thanks to him.
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  37. @candid_observer
    The VP of Engineering at Google -- to whom the writer of the document reports -- had this to say:P

    I’d like to respond to the “pc-considered-harmful” post. Questioning our assumptions and sharing different perspectives is an important part of our culture, and we want to continue fostering an environment where it’s safe to engage in challenging conversations in a thoughtful way. But, in the process of doing that, we cannot allow stereotyping and harmful assumptions to play any part. One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful.
     
    Yeah, that's a really open, scientific mind you've got there.

    Moron.

    Our elite is idiots.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/08/05/google-diversity-head-response-to-document/

    No. Our “elites” are not idiots so much, they are dishonest. Our “elites” are lying, game playing, manipulative, creeps. 21st century two faced court eunuchs.

    Read More
    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Lurker
    Exactly right!
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  38. I read a good ways into this guy’s writing on the Vox site, and, though he writes some truth, he is still pretty damn cucked-out. If this is the best voice for truth at Google, the place is pretty far gone through the looking glass.

    This is what got me to stop reading:

    Thankfully, climate scientists and evolutionary biologists generally aren’t on the right.

    What the hell? It shouldn’t matter what the political views of any biologists are. I’d just rather not see any incompetents and liars, that’s all. Without them, the truth comes out of the science. No, I understand that’s not what always goes on these days – I’m in John Lennon Imagine world here.

    What I’d like to see is some computer guys (no there are no engineers at Google, no matter what they want to call themselves) there get really pissed off. I’d like to see some top smart people get fired. It’d be bad for them personally, true, but, man, one can do a LOT of damage as a laid-off computer guy, so long as one took care of things before the pw or account is deleted. I want to see that place get hacked up to where people resort to duckduckgo and others. That’s one version of anti-trust “action” I could get behind, a topic that Mr. Sailer has been mentioning often lately.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    (edit: not actually reply to Achmed E. Newman, but it looks like I can't edit out replyishness of a post)

    Notice that at no point does he say that women aren't as good at technical work than men, but so far most responses I've seen on the interweb are treating it as if that's the core of the argument.

    He might have made it out of this brouhaha okay if not for this bit:

    "We can increase representation at an org level by either making it a better environment for certain groups (which would be seen in survey scores) or discriminating based on a protected status (which is illegal and I’ve seen it done)."

    He'll be destroyed not because he challenged Google's policies on holy scripture, but because he said their religious rites are breaking the law. That doesn't look good when a document like this gets outside an organization's walls.

    , @Hibernian
    "...no there are no engineers at Google..."

    They've got to have a few hardware engineers in the Bay Area. Also I think they own the old Motorola Mobility in Chicago.
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  39. @candid_observer
    Well, the thing about "Diversity Officers" is that nobody in engineering respects them, even if they fear them for the damage they can do.

    But even the VP of Engineering got in on the act. That's going to be hard to stomach for those with independent minds. Nobody wants to be "led" by a cretin.

    Read More
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  40. @Anatoly Karlin
    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    Yeah, starting out with three disclaimers is not the way to go. He might as well be wearing a “fire me” sign.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SimonsOtherRock
    Not surprisingly, his name has already leaked. Some SJW Googler surely told a friend who posted it and there will be an army of SJW's who will work tirelessly to ensure his name is forever associated with this event in Google's search index. Such lovely, loving people. Ready and willing to enthusiastically destroy the career of a Bad White Male whenever required.
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  41. @syonredux
    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “


    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender.

    “Well that’s that, folks. You heard it from the head of diversity, integrity and governance. Debate’s over. Tomorrow’s a busy day. You guys tote the podium and overhead projectors back to the storage room and lock up. You ladies gather up the leftovers in that tupperware, and take care of those spills on the carpet.”

    Read More
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  42. Luke Lea says:

    Interestingly Twitter won’t let me tweet links to this article. The message says it looks like my tweet might be automated. Anybody else getting the same message?

    Read More
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  43. @Jack Hanson
    Its amazing how up their own asses the commenters on the gizmodo article are that they don't realise they're highlighting the points he makes.

    >>> Its amazing how up their own asses the commenters on the gizmodo article are that they don’t realise they’re highlighting the points he makes.
    Those women talking about how upset they are – “…still shaking with rage…” really should think twice.

    Read More
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  44. Interesting, a week earlier Jordan Peterson’s YouTube channel was suspended for a few days. Coincidence?

    Read More
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  45. Hoist with his own petard comes to mind. Screw these people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoist_with_his_own_petard

    Read More
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  46. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywpamw/internal-reaction-to-google-employees-manifesto-show-anti-diversity-views-have-support

    “From what I’ve seen it’s been a mix of women saying, ‘This is terrible and it’s been distracting me from my work and it shouldn’t be allowed;’ Men and women saying ‘this is horrible but we need to let him have a voice;’ and men saying ‘This is so brave, I agree,’” the employee said.

    Italics added.

    Hooooboy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    So were those women trying to prove his point, or what?

    My favorite comment on that Vice page is:

    "The author is an idiot, grasping at pseudoscience to justify sexism. It's a struggle for anyone who's approached the issue with an open heart to read like this," another commenter wrote."

    I would suggest that if it's that much of a struggle for you to read something so mild, your heart probably isn't as open as you like to think.

    It's still hilarious to me how sex differences can be observed in our closest relatives in the animal world, and nobody bats an eye, but somehow it's "pseudoscience" to think they exist in humans as well. Honestly, how do you get a job at Google is that makes sense to you?
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  47. @Yan Shen
    Of course the irony here is that Google, like most elite tech companies in Silicon Valley, actually has a slight under-representation of whites in technical roles relative to their overall population percentage.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/google-diversity-statistics-2017-2017-6

    At Google it appears that whites make up 53% of those in technical roles, while Asians make up 39%, which is vastly disproportionate to their overall percentage among the population. Someone like Jared Taylor will quickly point that out in response to liberals complaining about the status quo.

    Below is a rare instance where even a progressive site like the Young Turks latches on to this fact.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPcR1x970Hk

    Males though are still over-represented I suppose, so maybe the uh gender angle is valid...

    I’d also bet the foreign-born contingent of most of these companies’ workforces and applicant pools skews overwhelmingly male, but you’re not supposed to notice that, you’re just supposed to assume the raw gender balance is an accurate measure of discrimination against American women.

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  48. Clyde says:
    @syonredux
    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “


    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land…..blah blab blah…

    Is Danielle black or white? Either way here is your diversity rent seeker apparatchik in her high paying make work job.In cases like this a photo is helpful but I don’t see any. She is living proof how women latch onto male achievement in the tech fields. They cannot do tech so they babble away. Drink enough free coffee at the Googleplex and you can babble away until infinity.

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    • Replies: @Gman
    White it appears

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2017/06/29/google-hires-intels-former-head-of-diversity-as-vp-of-diversity/amp/
    , @Brutusale
    Danielle Brown is token high-yella former Spice Girl Mel B.'s little sister.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_B

    She is a twofer in the tech world, so she gets to ride the merry-go-round.

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/intels-former-chief-diversity-and-inclusion-officer-has-left-the-company/
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  49. @Desiderius
    Yeah, starting out with three disclaimers is not the way to go. He might as well be wearing a "fire me" sign.

    Not surprisingly, his name has already leaked. Some SJW Googler surely told a friend who posted it and there will be an army of SJW’s who will work tirelessly to ensure his name is forever associated with this event in Google’s search index. Such lovely, loving people. Ready and willing to enthusiastically destroy the career of a Bad White Male whenever required.

    Read More
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  50. Anthony says:

    Conspiracy time – Sergey Brin wrote this, or at least pushed it.

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  51. Groan, that thing is disorganized, unfocused and boring. The greatest risk it poses to Google is that it might puncture the myth that you have to be a genius to work there.

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  52. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @candid_observer
    The VP of Engineering at Google -- to whom the writer of the document reports -- had this to say:P

    I’d like to respond to the “pc-considered-harmful” post. Questioning our assumptions and sharing different perspectives is an important part of our culture, and we want to continue fostering an environment where it’s safe to engage in challenging conversations in a thoughtful way. But, in the process of doing that, we cannot allow stereotyping and harmful assumptions to play any part. One of the aspects of the post that troubled me deeply was the bias inherent in suggesting that most women, or men, feel or act a certain way. That is stereotyping, and it is harmful.
     
    Yeah, that's a really open, scientific mind you've got there.

    Moron.

    Our elite is idiots.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/08/05/google-diversity-head-response-to-document/

    Somehow I doubt that one can get to be VP of Engineering at Google (maybe VP of Diversity, OK…) without KNOWING that this is absolute nonsense.
    For instance…
    I’ll hazard a generalization here…
    I’ll probably never get hired at Google, but I think something needs to be said…
    MOST MEN have a desire for sexual intercourse with women.
    Wait, there’s more…
    MOST WOMEN have a desire for sexual intercourse with men.
    Indeed…
    I think… it could even be said…. that the very EXISTENCE of humanity hinges on this!

    We don’t just sorta kinda live in 1984 in a metaphorical way. This VP is a doubleplusgood duckspeaker.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Random Dude on the Internet
    You're being very optimistic. There are a lot of people who have chugged the kool aid and they absolutely believe this drivel 110%

    We need to dispel the myth of the "secret shitlords" in the elite and realize that these people want us gone or in prison for thinking bad thoughts. It will make things a lot easier when we stop pretending that we have hidden allies that don't exist.
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  53. Sam Patch says:
    @AM
    It seems like the author has been watching Jordan Peterson. The Google letter uses Peterson's vocabulary almost verbatim in talking about differences in the genders and social biases.

    Update: Someone else made the same observation on Vox Day's blog.

    I was just about to post the EXACT same thing. Sounds like Peterson’s talking points to a T (and me likey)

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  54. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Google … continuing to do evil.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I've sometimes wondered when they are going to quietly switch their motto to "Be Evil." Maybe they can offer a contrived explanation, explaining how "evil" is just whatever a hidebound society thinks is wrong, due to its unthinking was, but that the bold thinkers, the free spirits, have always been the evil ones. Perhaps they can simply deny that any switch has every occurred: "We have always been evil!"
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  55. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    MAKE SILICON VALLEY GREAT AGAIN!

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  56. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @You All Look Like Ants
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywpamw/internal-reaction-to-google-employees-manifesto-show-anti-diversity-views-have-support

    "From what I've seen it's been a mix of women saying, 'This is terrible and it's been distracting me from my work and it shouldn't be allowed;' Men and women saying 'this is horrible but we need to let him have a voice;' and men saying 'This is so brave, I agree,'" the employee said.

    Italics added.

    Hooooboy.

    So were those women trying to prove his point, or what?

    My favorite comment on that Vice page is:

    “The author is an idiot, grasping at pseudoscience to justify sexism. It’s a struggle for anyone who’s approached the issue with an open heart to read like this,” another commenter wrote.”

    I would suggest that if it’s that much of a struggle for you to read something so mild, your heart probably isn’t as open as you like to think.

    It’s still hilarious to me how sex differences can be observed in our closest relatives in the animal world, and nobody bats an eye, but somehow it’s “pseudoscience” to think they exist in humans as well. Honestly, how do you get a job at Google is that makes sense to you?

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  57. Gman says:
    @Clyde

    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land.....blah blab blah...
     

    Is Danielle black or white? Either way here is your diversity rent seeker apparatchik in her high paying make work job.In cases like this a photo is helpful but I don't see any. She is living proof how women latch onto male achievement in the tech fields. They cannot do tech so they babble away. Drink enough free coffee at the Googleplex and you can babble away until infinity.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Google former Diversity Fuhrer looked like a U-Boat Kapitan.
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  58. @Gman
    White it appears

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2017/06/29/google-hires-intels-former-head-of-diversity-as-vp-of-diversity/amp/

    Google former Diversity Fuhrer looked like a U-Boat Kapitan.

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    • Replies: @jesse helms think-alike
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mastrangel-brown-b33343a

    how raciss of Google to hire a non AA diversity commissar

    http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Danielle+Mastrangel+Brown+TechCrunch+Disrupt+fQC0_cb5Syal.jpg
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  59. @Achmed E. Newman
    I read a good ways into this guy's writing on the Vox site, and, though he writes some truth, he is still pretty damn cucked-out. If this is the best voice for truth at Google, the place is pretty far gone through the looking glass.

    This is what got me to stop reading:

    Thankfully, climate scientists and evolutionary biologists generally aren’t on the right.
     
    What the hell? It shouldn't matter what the political views of any biologists are. I'd just rather not see any incompetents and liars, that's all. Without them, the truth comes out of the science. No, I understand that's not what always goes on these days - I'm in John Lennon Imagine world here.

    What I'd like to see is some computer guys (no there are no engineers at Google, no matter what they want to call themselves) there get really pissed off. I'd like to see some top smart people get fired. It'd be bad for them personally, true, but, man, one can do a LOT of damage as a laid-off computer guy, so long as one took care of things before the pw or account is deleted. I want to see that place get hacked up to where people resort to duckduckgo and others. That's one version of anti-trust "action" I could get behind, a topic that Mr. Sailer has been mentioning often lately.

    (edit: not actually reply to Achmed E. Newman, but it looks like I can’t edit out replyishness of a post)

    Notice that at no point does he say that women aren’t as good at technical work than men, but so far most responses I’ve seen on the interweb are treating it as if that’s the core of the argument.

    He might have made it out of this brouhaha okay if not for this bit:

    “We can increase representation at an org level by either making it a better environment for certain groups (which would be seen in survey scores) or discriminating based on a protected status (which is illegal and I’ve seen it done).”

    He’ll be destroyed not because he challenged Google’s policies on holy scripture, but because he said their religious rites are breaking the law. That doesn’t look good when a document like this gets outside an organization’s walls.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    (edit: not actually reply to Achmed E. Newman, but it looks like I can’t edit out replyishness of a post)
     
    If you need to do that while the edit window is still open just open the edit window, cut the text to leave an empty comment and save it (deletes the original reply), then create a new non-reply comment and paste into it.
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  60. Ya, the gender disparity is almost completely or completely caused by sex differences and trying to “correct” it is a sissyphian task. I recommend the book “Smart and Sexy” by Roderick Kaine to get a very complete understanding of sex differences in intelligence and what causes them.

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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Google ... continuing to do evil.

    I’ve sometimes wondered when they are going to quietly switch their motto to “Be Evil.” Maybe they can offer a contrived explanation, explaining how “evil” is just whatever a hidebound society thinks is wrong, due to its unthinking was, but that the bold thinkers, the free spirits, have always been the evil ones. Perhaps they can simply deny that any switch has every occurred: “We have always been evil!”

    Read More
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  62. @Roger
    From Google: "I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages." ... “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “

    She has a funny idea about what "open" means. She could have linked to the document, and explained where it goes wrong. That should have been more convincing if she had good facts and arguments to support her opinions. Instead, she mainly hopes that fewer people read the essay.

    I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    “Not going to link to it,” is an interesting pre-search-engine way to hide something which is only as far away as speaking “Google employee racist screed” into your phone and glancing at the top results. Although if I was a Google employee I’d use Bing for the search to confuse the corporate tracking.

    My thoughts reading the blog was that this is well written, completely reasonable, and shows a lot of inside knowledge of the Google hiring and promotional process. All of the internal lingo like “PERF” was used very fluently and naturally. Seems legit and like someone who has been there for quite a few years. It does have a classical liberal viewpoint, of the “affirmative action is still racism” variety rather than the “send them back to Africa” blowhard that some of the commenters here seem to have today.

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  63. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @AM

    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?
     
    Given the official response back, I'd say it's very high. Google is lost to progressive la la land.

    Tiny chance but would be completely hilarious: the author is a woman.

    My prediction: Google will not officially identify him but he will be doxed by coworkers nevertheless. Most Google employees are PC-poisoned to the core and would do anything to protect their beliefs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L Woods
    And to curry favor/virtue signal, let's not forget. Also my phone just autocorrected "virtue" to "virus;" how very fitting.
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  64. U. Ranus says:
    @Anonym
    It's interesting, at first I was in agreeance, and as I read on, I realized that this is criticism "firmly" planted on the quicksand of leftist axioms. See:

    I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I think we should strive for more.
     
    Fundamentally, is it a good thing to be pushing the very smartest females in the nation (the very smartest people Google, Microsoft, and other major and competent tech firms are known to pursue with a vengeance, male or female) into a demanding career during their prime reproductive years, so that they end up only having 1 or 2 children at most? Maybe it's ok when a small percentage do it, but when it is done on an industrial scale with massive propaganda drives to encourage it - it's profoundly sick, immoral and wrong. Hell no, it's not ok. It creates a dumber society in the long term.

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged? Why should only high IQ/drive/ability men be de facto allowed to have large families? If we had any sense as a society, we'd be identifying such women and propagandizing them to have large families and for men to seek these women out for that purpose. And we would brand as evil those propaganda efforts to effectively partially sterilize them (in a way, creating what amounts to a female eunuch) in the name of corporate greed and insane leftism.

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged?

    Because otherwise the high concentrations of imported smart goys in these high IQ tech places might do what Herrnstein warned about in The Bell Curve and mate their way into a new Tribe, where everybody is smart, everybody is everybody else’s third cousin, everybody has everybody else’s back… yet nobody is particularly jewish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    Because otherwise the high concentrations of imported smart goys in these high IQ tech places might do what Herrnstein warned about in The Bell Curve and mate their way into a new Tribe, where everybody is smart, everybody is everybody else’s third cousin, everybody has everybody else’s back… yet nobody is particularly jewish.

    And maybe that's the theory. In practice Jews get high on their own supply. Who is outmarrying at incredible rates? Jews. Who is forsaking procreation for career? Jewish women.
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  65. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    A propos:
    “Uber’s search for a female CEO has been narrowed down to 3 men”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/08/04/ubers-search-for-a-female-ceo-has-been-narrowed-down-to-3-men/

    The reason: No women wanted the job.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Smart them. (The women, that is).
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  66. @JerryC
    So what does Google do when they track this guy down? Fire him? Make him recant and then fire him? Publicly defenestrate him?

    So what does Google do when they track this guy down? Fire him? Make him recant and then fire him? Publicly defenestrate him?

    Make him recant and then fire him. We’ve done this script many times before.

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    • Replies: @Moses
    The North Koreans call that "self criticism" time.
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  67. Seneca says:
    @Cagey Beast
    This video, featuring Jordan Peterson, a PhD student of his named Christine Brophy and Lauren Southern on how sex differences relate to SJWs, is very interesting. This relates directly to the games Googles play.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_fBYROA7Hk

    Thanks for the link. Great discussion.

    Also two gorgeous brilliant conservative young ladies who are easy on the eyes…how refreshing!

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  68. El Dato says:
    @Osten
    Google software teams on fire now.
    Algorithmize, sift, filter, identify.
    Publicize, shame, eviscerate.

    Where is Eric Schmidt?

    I support this updated Half-Life 2 reference, Anticitizen.

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  69. I’ll worry about underrepresentation of women and blacks (let’s be honest, there are plenty of Asian minorities) in tech and at google in particular as soon as they acknowledge and start doing something about the underrepresentation of whitemales in professional online journalism and among the Google Doodle illustrators in particular.

    Professional opinionated Cathedral elite, artist & illustrator: yet more examples of jobs whitemales are too good for?

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  70. guest says:
    @syonredux
    Responses at GIZMODO are appropriately WOKE:

    is trying to justify their racism with a misunderstanding of social science.
    They are not even trying to hide their racism. They used the word ‘race’ 8 times in the document.

    You know who thinks there are different races of people; colonialists and racists.

    Humanity is one race, one species, with multiple ethnicities. This person does not see other ethnicities as being the same species as themself.
     

    Right! It’s almost like people who go to better schools and are exposed to more educated people in their immediate vicinities and interactions might have an opportunity to increase their IQs that someone less advantaged wouldn’t. Not like anyone is born with a 170
     

    Thus answering the question I didn’t realized I had, “if you put a sociopathic technocrat in a a room with nothing but a word processor and the sound of his own voice, what would he write?”
     

    I believe he’s frustrated that not all people are men who look like him. The struggle is real.
     
    Of course, here-and-there, some un-WOKE comments can be found:

    Welp, this is gonna be a fun commment’s section.

    I do think he brings up some good points. One point being, we should be able to discuss this without instantly shaming/closing off the opposing viewpoint.
     

    “...One point being, we should be able to discuss this without instantly shaming/closing off the opposing viewpoint.”

    90+% of the comments contain ad hominem attacks against the Google Guy.

    So much for reasonable discourse, huh?
     
    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    “You know who thinks there are different races of people”

    Everyone.

    Seriously, I don’t believe any adult of sound mind who wasn’t raised in an isolation tank doesn’t think there’s such a thing as race. It’s obvious.

    Some people deny the sun will rise tomorrow morning. I don’t believe them either.

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  71. @Jack Hanson
    Its amazing how up their own asses the commenters on the gizmodo article are that they don't realise they're highlighting the points he makes.

    When you consider that Gizmodo was part of Gawker Media, it shouldn’t be amazing at all.

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  72. Anonym says:
    @U. Ranus
    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged?

    Because otherwise the high concentrations of imported smart goys in these high IQ tech places might do what Herrnstein warned about in The Bell Curve and mate their way into a new Tribe, where everybody is smart, everybody is everybody else's third cousin, everybody has everybody else's back... yet nobody is particularly jewish.

    Because otherwise the high concentrations of imported smart goys in these high IQ tech places might do what Herrnstein warned about in The Bell Curve and mate their way into a new Tribe, where everybody is smart, everybody is everybody else’s third cousin, everybody has everybody else’s back… yet nobody is particularly jewish.

    And maybe that’s the theory. In practice Jews get high on their own supply. Who is outmarrying at incredible rates? Jews. Who is forsaking procreation for career? Jewish women.

    Read More
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  73. https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    What a mensch. The rest of the article is equal rot, in case anyone is curious.
    , @NickG
    When did computer programmers start calling themselves engineers, do you now get a Bachelor of Engineering Degree if you study programming?

    Many moons back I was a COBOL programmer on IBM mainframes and we never called each other engineers.
    , @Desiderius

    You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal.
     
    The "someone from legal" isn't an afterthought, he's the whole point. Your friendly neighborhood party minder at work.

    The writer tacks him on at the end disingenuously; he knows who runs the show.
    , @theo the kraut
    https://yonatanzunger.com/about

    I come from a large Jewish, Israeli family. On the religious side, it varies from the ultra-Orthodox (In the rabbi business for over 2,500 years) to ultra-secular (Karl Marx is my Nth cousin), and watching this discourse play out left me deeply interested in all the related matters, from individual faith (and how it differs for people) to the social meaning of religion. On the political side, you can’t grow up with wars breaking out at the drop of a hat and not become a news junkie. You just can’t. So I read it compulsively. And analyze it compulsively, looking for signals of what’s really going on and what’s about to happen.
    , @snorlax
    Jonathan Haidt's moral foundations theory, which is discussed in the hatememo, proposes that liberals' worldviews tend to emphasize fairness, caring and liberty, whereas conservatives emphasize loyalty, authority and purity (c.f. liberté, egalité, fraternité vs. travail, famille, patrie).

    Zunger is a liberal with a conservative brain. He's a trans-liberal. And so, his post is made up of increasingly-enraged incantations of loyalty-authority-purity, and fantasies of punishing the disloyal-destructive-filthy violations thereof. In another place he'd be gleefully burning heretics at the stake. (And he may yet get the chance!)

    Haidt himself is the perfect picture of a cis-liberal. He doesn't want to turn conservatives into charcoal briquettes; he wants to care for and understand them, and set up a dialogue so we can all learn from one another and bridge our angry divides.

    The hatememo's author seems to be a trans-conservative, amusingly — the total opposite of a trans-liberal like Zunger. I wonder if a more stridently-conservative (cis-conservative, that is) hatememo without all the qualifying statements would've provoked as much fury among trans-liberals.
    , @anon

    These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in.
     
    That's interesting, because these "fundamentally corrosive" beliefs have been pretty much a given all around the world, since the dawn of history. Whereas Google has been around for what, twenty years? Whose beliefs have a longer track record of being non-corrosive?

    It is nice of them to finally admit that leftists don't dominate all of these institutions because they're just smarter, at least.
    , @SonOfStrom
    "I certainly couldn’t assign any women to deal with this, a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face..."

    Amazing how that's becoming more and more an acceptable response.

    "If you’re a professional, especially one working on systems that can use terms like “planet-scale” and “carrier-class” without the slightest exaggeration, then you’ll quickly find that the large bulk of your job is about coordinating and cooperating with other groups."

    Of course this is the rhetorical sleight of hand that's become commonplace when discussing how "valuable" feminine traits (like "empathy") are in the workplace these days. It's the idea that an ability to cooperate on large scale projects requires the same interpersonal skills as those commonly associated with women. The Apollo moon landing to, indeed, as Steve points out, the rise of Google itself shows that's laughable.
    , @Anonymous
    The funniest thing about that stupid note is what some reader highlighted (probably as profound truth):

    "Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers."
     
    , @candid_observer
    God, what a smug, ignorant, pontificating and totalitarian creep this guy "Yonatan" is.

    He doesn't even bother to refute a single claim made in the memo regarding the real possibility of male/female differences. Somehow, this moron thinks that the complete equality of male/female brains is so obvious he doesn't have to address it.

    Our "elite" in action.

    Maybe Mr. Know-it-all should explain to us how this entire issue of the Journal of Neuroscience Research is nothing but transparent pseudo-science:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jnr.v95.1-2/issuetoc

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  74. Yeah, I saw that rebuttal too.

    No, not everybody can learn to write real code.

    Yes, developers have to learn to deal with requirements and compliance issues and such, but a good manager insulates his or her developers from that stuff as much as possible.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Yes, developers have to learn to deal with requirements and compliance issues and such, but a good manager insulates his or her developers from that stuff as much as possible.
     
    Yeah, I had a boss once who said, "My job is to get you as big a raise as possible and to keep the bureaucratic rain off your head so you can do your job", except that he did not use the word rain. Great guy. We got a lot done.
    , @anonguy

    No, not everybody can learn to write real code.
     
    Joel is right. Java opened the floodgates for reasonably bright individuals to start calling themselves "engineers" by being modestly productive at scut programming work.

    Not that Java is for scut work, hardly, but array out of bounds exceptions and null pointer exceptions especially allowed scut work portions of a product to be handled by low skill individuals.
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  75. Pericles says:
    @syonredux
    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “


    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Diversity Commissar Danielle Brown speaks. It is rather funny to see these sleek previously-unquestioned fatties flip out, march off without deigning to argue, start wobbling with rage and getting transported to Google Safe Space when someone dares to dissent. The whole collective reaction is parodic maoistic 1984, of course, but they will still destroy you if you dare to laugh. (“Incontinentia … Buttocks!”)

    Monothought is Diversity! Silencing is Openness! Reeeing is Tolerance! And of course, Incompetence is Competence!

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  76. Pericles says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    What a mensch. The rest of the article is equal rot, in case anyone is curious.

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  77. NickG says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    When did computer programmers start calling themselves engineers, do you now get a Bachelor of Engineering Degree if you study programming?

    Many moons back I was a COBOL programmer on IBM mainframes and we never called each other engineers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alice
    Yes. These people have the title software engineer.

    Their degrees are in departments named Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (Cal, MIT) or Computer Science and Engineering. These departments are inside the engineering schools/colleges of their respective universities.

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or "IT professional" in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.

    Programmers, by contrast, may be self taught. Maybe they took a few courses in a given language or in web design. IT professionals may have learned how to administer a database or configure a server. Usually they don't know anything about how to think about modern software.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    For the same reason that the state Highway Department is now the Department of Transportation, and the county garbage guys now work for the Division of Environmental Services, wtf that is.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Exactly, Nick. I would think if you were a COBOL programmer, you'd probably be calling each other "Gramps" ;-}
    , @Hibernian
    At some point programming began to be called sofware engineering and computer hardware engineering came to be called architecture. As time went on that architecture designation seemed to go away; also the word "software" began to be dropped from "software engineering."
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  78. Also, LOL at people calling the author out for peddling junk science if he really is a biology Ph.D grad from Harvard.

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  79. @Steve Sailer
    Google former Diversity Fuhrer looked like a U-Boat Kapitan.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mastrangel-brown-b33343a

    how raciss of Google to hire a non AA diversity commissar

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    They know where their bread is buttered. If they lose white women to the Trumpening, the gig is well and truly up.
    , @Hibernian
    With the maiden name Mastrangel she might be Hispanic. A white Hispanic, to be sure.
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  80. jim jones says:
    @SonOfStrom
    It will certainly be a good test of his skill as an engineer. Let's hope for his sake he's covered his tracks well.
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  81. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @jay-w
    " ...So far, all of the responses I’ve seen to this are just declaring what this memo is, and saying that it’s bad, usually in some sort of childish slang ..."

    That is what makes the whole thing so scary and tragic instead of amusing: These people are supposedly the best and the brightest of the new generation, but the only thing they can do is resort to ad hominum attacks and temper tantrums instead of engaging the guy (I'm assuming it's a guy) on the merits of his arguments in any kind of reasoned debate.

    Conversions are forbidden in post modernism.

    Shout down to silence, nothing more.

    Jordan Peterson is the deep cool springs of knowledge. Eternal Thanks to him.

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    "Of all the Causes which conspire to blind
    Man's erring Judgment, and misguide the Mind,
    What the weak Head with strongest Byass rules,
    Is Pride, the never-failing Vice of Fools.
    Whatever Nature has in Worth deny'd,
    She gives in large Recruits of needful Pride;
    For as in Bodies, thus in Souls, we find
    What wants in Blood and Spirits, swell'd with Wind;
    Pride, where Wit fails, steps in to our Defence,
    And fills up all the mighty Void of Sense!
    If once right Reason drives that Cloud away,
    Truth breaks upon us with resistless Day;
    Trust not your self; but your Defects to know,
    Make use of ev'ry Friend--and ev'ry Foe.

    A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
    There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
    Fir'd at first Sight with what the Muse imparts,
    In fearless Youth we tempt the Heights of Arts,
    While from the bounded Level of our Mind,
    Short Views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
    But more advanc'd, behold with strange Surprize
    New, distant Scenes of endless Science rise!
    So pleas'd at first, the towring Alps we try,
    Mount o'er the Vales, and seem to tread the Sky;
    Th' Eternal Snows appear already past,
    And the first Clouds and Mountains seem the last:
    But those attain'd, we tremble to survey
    The growing Labours of the lengthen'd Way,
    Th' increasing Prospect tires our wandering Eyes,
    Hills peep o'er Hills, and Alps on Alps arise!"

    - Pope, Essay on Criticism
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  82. @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal.

    The “someone from legal” isn’t an afterthought, he’s the whole point. Your friendly neighborhood party minder at work.

    The writer tacks him on at the end disingenuously; he knows who runs the show.

    Read More
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  83. Alice says:
    @NickG
    When did computer programmers start calling themselves engineers, do you now get a Bachelor of Engineering Degree if you study programming?

    Many moons back I was a COBOL programmer on IBM mainframes and we never called each other engineers.

    Yes. These people have the title software engineer.

    Their degrees are in departments named Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (Cal, MIT) or Computer Science and Engineering. These departments are inside the engineering schools/colleges of their respective universities.

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or “IT professional” in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.

    Programmers, by contrast, may be self taught. Maybe they took a few courses in a given language or in web design. IT professionals may have learned how to administer a database or configure a server. Usually they don’t know anything about how to think about modern software.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Nope, Alice, Nick G. is correct. None of that stuff is engineering. If you are not working with the physical laws of nature, you are not doing engineering, period.

    This is not to say that all or any of this stuff is easy. However, if you take a big picture of what you do, and see that all the rules and methods of what you do for a living are man-made, then you should know you are not an engineer. It's that simple.

    Yes, the departments of Comp-Sci and engineering are together at many schools, but that doesn't change who you are.
    , @Loveofknowledge
    Maybe in theory. In practice, companies use the title "Software Engineer" all the time and often hire people for those positions who did not go to an Engineering school, take particular classes, or even go to college at all. I've seen it all over the place throughout my career, including at big well-known companies. There are no regulations that I know of on the use of that title.

    In practice, I think it's just title inflation - like calling salesman "Account Executives" and secretaries "Administrative Assistants" and teachers "Educators", etc.

    I'm a "Software Engineer" myself, but I never use that in casual conversation - I'd say programmer/developer, or just "I work with computers" unless I'm talking to other tech people.
    , @anonguy

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or “IT professional” in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.
     
    That still isn't engineering except by the Humpty Dumpty rule of what a word means.

    Interesting your name is Alice.

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  84. @Anon
    Conversions are forbidden in post modernism.

    Shout down to silence, nothing more.

    Jordan Peterson is the deep cool springs of knowledge. Eternal Thanks to him.

    “Of all the Causes which conspire to blind
    Man’s erring Judgment, and misguide the Mind,
    What the weak Head with strongest Byass rules,
    Is Pride, the never-failing Vice of Fools.
    Whatever Nature has in Worth deny’d,
    She gives in large Recruits of needful Pride;
    For as in Bodies, thus in Souls, we find
    What wants in Blood and Spirits, swell’d with Wind;
    Pride, where Wit fails, steps in to our Defence,
    And fills up all the mighty Void of Sense!
    If once right Reason drives that Cloud away,
    Truth breaks upon us with resistless Day;
    Trust not your self; but your Defects to know,
    Make use of ev’ry Friend–and ev’ry Foe.

    A little Learning is a dang’rous Thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
    There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
    Fir’d at first Sight with what the Muse imparts,
    In fearless Youth we tempt the Heights of Arts,
    While from the bounded Level of our Mind,
    Short Views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
    But more advanc’d, behold with strange Surprize
    New, distant Scenes of endless Science rise!
    So pleas’d at first, the towring Alps we try,
    Mount o’er the Vales, and seem to tread the Sky;
    Th’ Eternal Snows appear already past,
    And the first Clouds and Mountains seem the last:
    But those attain’d, we tremble to survey
    The growing Labours of the lengthen’d Way,
    Th’ increasing Prospect tires our wandering Eyes,
    Hills peep o’er Hills, and Alps on Alps arise!”

    - Pope, Essay on Criticism

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Beautiful and Thanks
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  85. @jesse helms think-alike
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mastrangel-brown-b33343a

    how raciss of Google to hire a non AA diversity commissar

    http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Danielle+Mastrangel+Brown+TechCrunch+Disrupt+fQC0_cb5Syal.jpg

    They know where their bread is buttered. If they lose white women to the Trumpening, the gig is well and truly up.

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  86. @Anonym
    It's interesting, at first I was in agreeance, and as I read on, I realized that this is criticism "firmly" planted on the quicksand of leftist axioms. See:

    I strongly believe in gender and racial diversity, and I think we should strive for more.
     
    Fundamentally, is it a good thing to be pushing the very smartest females in the nation (the very smartest people Google, Microsoft, and other major and competent tech firms are known to pursue with a vengeance, male or female) into a demanding career during their prime reproductive years, so that they end up only having 1 or 2 children at most? Maybe it's ok when a small percentage do it, but when it is done on an industrial scale with massive propaganda drives to encourage it - it's profoundly sick, immoral and wrong. Hell no, it's not ok. It creates a dumber society in the long term.

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged? Why should only high IQ/drive/ability men be de facto allowed to have large families? If we had any sense as a society, we'd be identifying such women and propagandizing them to have large families and for men to seek these women out for that purpose. And we would brand as evil those propaganda efforts to effectively partially sterilize them (in a way, creating what amounts to a female eunuch) in the name of corporate greed and insane leftism.

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged?

    Tragedy of the commons. Smaller family sizes–>smart girls pressured to carry on the family name/support parents through high achievement. Daughters filling the roles of missing sons.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Tragedy of the commons. Smaller family sizes–>smart girls pressured to carry on the family name/support parents through high achievement. Daughters filling the roles of missing sons.

    That may be a factor for some cases but the majority have been conditioned by feminist media and various other sources to flinch when they hear "homemaker", "good provider", "go to school to find a good husband", "division of labor in the household", "prime reproductive years", "barefoot and pregnant" and so on and so forth.

    https://youtu.be/JE9uBl8PO5k

    Some parents make the mistake of reinforcing the PC norms. They should say that their greatest power is in reproduction so best to find the best man possible who is capable and willing to provide for a large family. One of your advantages in life will be that few women will be seriously competing with you at the age and stage you will be competing with others. There are plenty of areas in life where the secret fashy knowledge/attitude is an advantage in life. E.g. honestly how attractive is it for a man to find some ultra-liberal feminist vegan cat owner?

    I guess the Simpsons did show the other side of the coin at least once, to their credit.

    https://youtu.be/Q60wHn1-rgE
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  87. @AM

    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?
     
    Given the official response back, I'd say it's very high. Google is lost to progressive la la land.

    There was an incident about 10 years ago where Google had a company wide meeting and announced that everyone was getting a 10% raise and some guy leaked it. The story I heard (from a Googler) was that each email they sent was encoded with some invisible white space characters (tabs, carriage returns, etc.) that identified the recipient. They tracked they guy down within the hour and escorted him from the building. https://www.wired.com/2010/11/google-fires-memo-leaker/

    Printers can be set to do similar things.

    Moral of the story: never use your own phone or email account.

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  88. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    A propos:
    "Uber’s search for a female CEO has been narrowed down to 3 men"
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/08/04/ubers-search-for-a-female-ceo-has-been-narrowed-down-to-3-men/

    The reason: No women wanted the job.

    Smart them. (The women, that is).

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  89. @Carbon blob
    Yeah, I saw that rebuttal too.

    No, not everybody can learn to write real code.

    Yes, developers have to learn to deal with requirements and compliance issues and such, but a good manager insulates his or her developers from that stuff as much as possible.

    Yes, developers have to learn to deal with requirements and compliance issues and such, but a good manager insulates his or her developers from that stuff as much as possible.

    Yeah, I had a boss once who said, “My job is to get you as big a raise as possible and to keep the bureaucratic rain off your head so you can do your job”, except that he did not use the word rain. Great guy. We got a lot done.

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  90. @NickG
    When did computer programmers start calling themselves engineers, do you now get a Bachelor of Engineering Degree if you study programming?

    Many moons back I was a COBOL programmer on IBM mainframes and we never called each other engineers.

    For the same reason that the state Highway Department is now the Department of Transportation, and the county garbage guys now work for the Division of Environmental Services, wtf that is.

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  91. @Anonymous
    Somehow I doubt that one can get to be VP of Engineering at Google (maybe VP of Diversity, OK...) without KNOWING that this is absolute nonsense.
    For instance...
    I'll hazard a generalization here...
    I'll probably never get hired at Google, but I think something needs to be said...
    MOST MEN have a desire for sexual intercourse with women.
    Wait, there's more...
    MOST WOMEN have a desire for sexual intercourse with men.
    Indeed...
    I think... it could even be said.... that the very EXISTENCE of humanity hinges on this!

    We don't just sorta kinda live in 1984 in a metaphorical way. This VP is a doubleplusgood duckspeaker.

    You’re being very optimistic. There are a lot of people who have chugged the kool aid and they absolutely believe this drivel 110%

    We need to dispel the myth of the “secret shitlords” in the elite and realize that these people want us gone or in prison for thinking bad thoughts. It will make things a lot easier when we stop pretending that we have hidden allies that don’t exist.

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  92. Thea says:
    @Barnard
    My guess would be they let him get doxed and then in the name of fostering an open, inclusive environment, let his coworkers bully, harass and generally make working at Google miserable for him until he retaliates against one of them and they make him take a buyout.

    I think some will thank him for saying what they know but are afraid to say.

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  93. @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    https://yonatanzunger.com/about

    I come from a large Jewish, Israeli family. On the religious side, it varies from the ultra-Orthodox (In the rabbi business for over 2,500 years) to ultra-secular (Karl Marx is my Nth cousin), and watching this discourse play out left me deeply interested in all the related matters, from individual faith (and how it differs for people) to the social meaning of religion. On the political side, you can’t grow up with wars breaking out at the drop of a hat and not become a news junkie. You just can’t. So I read it compulsively. And analyze it compulsively, looking for signals of what’s really going on and what’s about to happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @snorlax

    I come from a large Jewish, Israeli family. On the religious side, it varies from the ultra-Orthodox (In the rabbi business for over 2,500 years) to ultra-secular (Karl Marx is my Nth cousin)
     
    Yup, family of cis-conservatives and trans-liberals.
    , @Stan Adams
    I wonder how many of Steve's regular commenters have at least one Jewish grandparent.

    For the record, I'm all goy, all of the time.
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  94. > I value diversity and inclusion, am not denying that sexism exists,
    > and don’t endorse using stereotypes.

    = please shoot me, I’m clueless about rhetorics and psychology.

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    • Agree: Desiderius
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  95. snorlax says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    Jonathan Haidt’s moral foundations theory, which is discussed in the hatememo, proposes that liberals’ worldviews tend to emphasize fairness, caring and liberty, whereas conservatives emphasize loyalty, authority and purity (c.f. liberté, egalité, fraternité vs. travail, famille, patrie).

    Zunger is a liberal with a conservative brain. He’s a trans-liberal. And so, his post is made up of increasingly-enraged incantations of loyalty-authority-purity, and fantasies of punishing the disloyal-destructive-filthy violations thereof. In another place he’d be gleefully burning heretics at the stake. (And he may yet get the chance!)

    Haidt himself is the perfect picture of a cis-liberal. He doesn’t want to turn conservatives into charcoal briquettes; he wants to care for and understand them, and set up a dialogue so we can all learn from one another and bridge our angry divides.

    The hatememo’s author seems to be a trans-conservative, amusingly — the total opposite of a trans-liberal like Zunger. I wonder if a more stridently-conservative (cis-conservative, that is) hatememo without all the qualifying statements would’ve provoked as much fury among trans-liberals.

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    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
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  96. snorlax says:
    @theo the kraut
    https://yonatanzunger.com/about

    I come from a large Jewish, Israeli family. On the religious side, it varies from the ultra-Orthodox (In the rabbi business for over 2,500 years) to ultra-secular (Karl Marx is my Nth cousin), and watching this discourse play out left me deeply interested in all the related matters, from individual faith (and how it differs for people) to the social meaning of religion. On the political side, you can’t grow up with wars breaking out at the drop of a hat and not become a news junkie. You just can’t. So I read it compulsively. And analyze it compulsively, looking for signals of what’s really going on and what’s about to happen.

    I come from a large Jewish, Israeli family. On the religious side, it varies from the ultra-Orthodox (In the rabbi business for over 2,500 years) to ultra-secular (Karl Marx is my Nth cousin)

    Yup, family of cis-conservatives and trans-liberals.

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  97. @Alice
    Yes. These people have the title software engineer.

    Their degrees are in departments named Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (Cal, MIT) or Computer Science and Engineering. These departments are inside the engineering schools/colleges of their respective universities.

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or "IT professional" in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.

    Programmers, by contrast, may be self taught. Maybe they took a few courses in a given language or in web design. IT professionals may have learned how to administer a database or configure a server. Usually they don't know anything about how to think about modern software.

    Nope, Alice, Nick G. is correct. None of that stuff is engineering. If you are not working with the physical laws of nature, you are not doing engineering, period.

    This is not to say that all or any of this stuff is easy. However, if you take a big picture of what you do, and see that all the rules and methods of what you do for a living are man-made, then you should know you are not an engineer. It’s that simple.

    Yes, the departments of Comp-Sci and engineering are together at many schools, but that doesn’t change who you are.

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    • Replies: @Alice
    Actually what I studied wasn't engineering, and it isn't what I do these days.. I have much better job, wife and mother.

    But your analogy is in error. Engineering is the man-made application of the laws of nature to solve problems. Electrical engineering created man-made computing through circuits built on the actual quantum physics and chemistry. That we apparently made models of computation doesn't mean the rules for this models were arbitrary. In fact, they were more accurately discovered themselves, as they come from mathematics, a field of discovery of truths, not inventions of them, and can be proved to be related to each other.

    So computer science (a poor name, I agree) is a name for the man made application of the laws of computing. Software engineers create solutions by applying the mathematical laws of computation. These "laws" aren't usually phrased this way but that doesn't change the reality.
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  98. @NickG
    When did computer programmers start calling themselves engineers, do you now get a Bachelor of Engineering Degree if you study programming?

    Many moons back I was a COBOL programmer on IBM mainframes and we never called each other engineers.

    Exactly, Nick. I would think if you were a COBOL programmer, you’d probably be calling each other “Gramps” ;-}

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    • Replies: @NickG

    Exactly, Nick. I would think if you were a COBOL programmer, you’d probably be calling each other “Gramps” ;-
     
    I last wrote code in the late 80s, and I'm 57, so you have a point. Though there is still plenty of legacy COBOL code running and COBOL coding jobs are still out there.
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  99. I was attracted to tech because of it’s indifference to racial politics + diversity and focus on meritocracy. I’m horrified to see that start to change.

    There are ultra-left people in tech, but many ultra-right, too. Think of Peter Thiel, as one prominent example. Here is a hilarious video from 1996, where Peter Thiel gives a speech skewering the entire “diversity” movement in this ultra articulate, intelligent, concise, manner that is quite entertaining to listen to:

    I already know there are people in Google who had a similar mindset. I am one of those people at another SF tech company.

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  100. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in.

    That’s interesting, because these “fundamentally corrosive” beliefs have been pretty much a given all around the world, since the dawn of history. Whereas Google has been around for what, twenty years? Whose beliefs have a longer track record of being non-corrosive?

    It is nice of them to finally admit that leftists don’t dominate all of these institutions because they’re just smarter, at least.

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  101. @Alice
    Yes. These people have the title software engineer.

    Their degrees are in departments named Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (Cal, MIT) or Computer Science and Engineering. These departments are inside the engineering schools/colleges of their respective universities.

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or "IT professional" in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.

    Programmers, by contrast, may be self taught. Maybe they took a few courses in a given language or in web design. IT professionals may have learned how to administer a database or configure a server. Usually they don't know anything about how to think about modern software.

    Maybe in theory. In practice, companies use the title “Software Engineer” all the time and often hire people for those positions who did not go to an Engineering school, take particular classes, or even go to college at all. I’ve seen it all over the place throughout my career, including at big well-known companies. There are no regulations that I know of on the use of that title.

    In practice, I think it’s just title inflation – like calling salesman “Account Executives” and secretaries “Administrative Assistants” and teachers “Educators”, etc.

    I’m a “Software Engineer” myself, but I never use that in casual conversation – I’d say programmer/developer, or just “I work with computers” unless I’m talking to other tech people.

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  102. @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    “I certainly couldn’t assign any women to deal with this, a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face…”

    Amazing how that’s becoming more and more an acceptable response.

    “If you’re a professional, especially one working on systems that can use terms like “planet-scale” and “carrier-class” without the slightest exaggeration, then you’ll quickly find that the large bulk of your job is about coordinating and cooperating with other groups.

    Of course this is the rhetorical sleight of hand that’s become commonplace when discussing how “valuable” feminine traits (like “empathy”) are in the workplace these days. It’s the idea that an ability to cooperate on large scale projects requires the same interpersonal skills as those commonly associated with women. The Apollo moon landing to, indeed, as Steve points out, the rise of Google itself shows that’s laughable.

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    • Agree: Desiderius
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  103. Hibernian says:
    @Jack Hanson
    Someone just nailed his Theses to the Cathedral door.

    I imagine the response will be just as outrageous.

    Martin Luther wasn’t the saint some people think he was. He trusted in princes and sons of men, and the princes in whom he trusted siezed Church land for their own benefit. Sola scriptura lead to the notion that monasticism was not in the Bible (except it was when Jesus went into the desert for 40 days) and therefore monasticism should be abolished. When it was, the land went to the princes. So Luther, an honest heretic, was no Henry VIII, but he enabled German princes who were like Henry VIII.

    The Catholic Church was very corrupt at the time (this has returned); however, the Protestants, some more than others, threw the baby out with the bath water as far as doctrine, liturgy, and church governance are concerned. They also divided into many small denominations; this was also more true of some than of others.

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  104. Hibernian says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I read a good ways into this guy's writing on the Vox site, and, though he writes some truth, he is still pretty damn cucked-out. If this is the best voice for truth at Google, the place is pretty far gone through the looking glass.

    This is what got me to stop reading:

    Thankfully, climate scientists and evolutionary biologists generally aren’t on the right.
     
    What the hell? It shouldn't matter what the political views of any biologists are. I'd just rather not see any incompetents and liars, that's all. Without them, the truth comes out of the science. No, I understand that's not what always goes on these days - I'm in John Lennon Imagine world here.

    What I'd like to see is some computer guys (no there are no engineers at Google, no matter what they want to call themselves) there get really pissed off. I'd like to see some top smart people get fired. It'd be bad for them personally, true, but, man, one can do a LOT of damage as a laid-off computer guy, so long as one took care of things before the pw or account is deleted. I want to see that place get hacked up to where people resort to duckduckgo and others. That's one version of anti-trust "action" I could get behind, a topic that Mr. Sailer has been mentioning often lately.

    “…no there are no engineers at Google…”

    They’ve got to have a few hardware engineers in the Bay Area. Also I think they own the old Motorola Mobility in Chicago.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, hardware ... gonna be some engineering involved.
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  105. Cagey Beast says: • Website

    Julian Assange has chimed in on this:

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  106. res says:
    @WowJustWow
    (edit: not actually reply to Achmed E. Newman, but it looks like I can't edit out replyishness of a post)

    Notice that at no point does he say that women aren't as good at technical work than men, but so far most responses I've seen on the interweb are treating it as if that's the core of the argument.

    He might have made it out of this brouhaha okay if not for this bit:

    "We can increase representation at an org level by either making it a better environment for certain groups (which would be seen in survey scores) or discriminating based on a protected status (which is illegal and I’ve seen it done)."

    He'll be destroyed not because he challenged Google's policies on holy scripture, but because he said their religious rites are breaking the law. That doesn't look good when a document like this gets outside an organization's walls.

    (edit: not actually reply to Achmed E. Newman, but it looks like I can’t edit out replyishness of a post)

    If you need to do that while the edit window is still open just open the edit window, cut the text to leave an empty comment and save it (deletes the original reply), then create a new non-reply comment and paste into it.

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  107. It’s really astounding that the idea that men and women are biologically different has become so controversial. I think everybody deep down knows that it’s true, you’re just not supposed to talk about it openly. Same for biological race differences.

    I’m not even saying that it’s inherently wrong for a society to have things we all know to be true but consider it impolite to bring up or dwell on. Probably most societies have various taboos like that, around things like sex, death, etc.

    The problem for me, as a white man, is that denialism of biological race and sex differences inevitably leads to unfair hatred, resentment, blaming, scapegoating, and vilifying of white men.

    There’s no way around it – significant disparities in average group outcomes exist and are plain to see – so how do you explain the disparities? If you deny that biology is a factor, somebody or something else has to be blamed for it. And that something is going to be some sort of unjust societal discrimination perpetrated and maintained by white men. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist it all, but it’s nowhere near a sufficient cause.

    If you don’t want me to talk about biological race and sex differences, then you have to stop blaming and attacking me (and other white guys) for causing the disparities. Otherwise, I have no choice but to bring it up, simply out of self-defense.

    One thing I disagree with the author about is that I support mentoring-type programs aimed specifically at women in technology (“Girls who Code”, etc.) – not because women are equal to men on average in talent and interest in programming, but precisely because they’re not.

    What if I have a daughter someday who is good at and interested in science and technology? This is not just an abstract question, I’m a huge math and science geek and we know that intelligence and personality traits are heritable. I would want her to cultivate her interests and go as far as her talents would take her, and I can imagine it being good for her to be around other girls and not be intimated by the inherently more aggressive, more numerous, and more talented boys in the field.

    I think most guys in tech want to support the few women who really are good at and interested in this stuff, but people need to stop attacking and blaming us for the average differences.

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    • Replies: @anon
    It’s really astounding that the idea that men and women are biologically different has become so controversial. I think everybody deep down knows that it’s true, you’re just not supposed to talk about it openly.

    The thing about it is, they do admit it, sometimes. Like, for example. If you say that you're tired of hearing about transgender people and putting up with their little fantasies, the average Google employee would tell you that of course transgenderism is real. If you were to scan the brain of a "trans woman", supposedly you'd find that "her" brain is more like that of a real woman than of a man. Despite what his genitals and chromosomes might say.

    You can poke holes in the logic of all that easily enough, but the point is, they acknowledge that there IS a difference when you talk about that. They just never acknowledge that there are differences between men and women unless they need to in order to advance a further level of poz.

    It's kind of like how liberals claim that IQ is totally meaningless, until you tell them that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes one more thing for them to be smug about.
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  108. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    The funniest thing about that stupid note is what some reader highlighted (probably as profound truth):

    “Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers.”

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Nothing says "collaberation" quite like If you don't like my idea then I'll let it be known you're contributing to a toxic atmosphere for women/PoC at the company.
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  109. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Desiderius
    "Of all the Causes which conspire to blind
    Man's erring Judgment, and misguide the Mind,
    What the weak Head with strongest Byass rules,
    Is Pride, the never-failing Vice of Fools.
    Whatever Nature has in Worth deny'd,
    She gives in large Recruits of needful Pride;
    For as in Bodies, thus in Souls, we find
    What wants in Blood and Spirits, swell'd with Wind;
    Pride, where Wit fails, steps in to our Defence,
    And fills up all the mighty Void of Sense!
    If once right Reason drives that Cloud away,
    Truth breaks upon us with resistless Day;
    Trust not your self; but your Defects to know,
    Make use of ev'ry Friend--and ev'ry Foe.

    A little Learning is a dang'rous Thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring:
    There shallow Draughts intoxicate the Brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
    Fir'd at first Sight with what the Muse imparts,
    In fearless Youth we tempt the Heights of Arts,
    While from the bounded Level of our Mind,
    Short Views we take, nor see the lengths behind,
    But more advanc'd, behold with strange Surprize
    New, distant Scenes of endless Science rise!
    So pleas'd at first, the towring Alps we try,
    Mount o'er the Vales, and seem to tread the Sky;
    Th' Eternal Snows appear already past,
    And the first Clouds and Mountains seem the last:
    But those attain'd, we tremble to survey
    The growing Labours of the lengthen'd Way,
    Th' increasing Prospect tires our wandering Eyes,
    Hills peep o'er Hills, and Alps on Alps arise!"

    - Pope, Essay on Criticism

    Beautiful and Thanks

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    • Agree: Negrolphin Pool
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  110. L Woods says:
    @Anonymous
    Tiny chance but would be completely hilarious: the author is a woman.

    My prediction: Google will not officially identify him but he will be doxed by coworkers nevertheless. Most Google employees are PC-poisoned to the core and would do anything to protect their beliefs.

    And to curry favor/virtue signal, let’s not forget. Also my phone just autocorrected “virtue” to “virus;” how very fitting.

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  111. Hibernian says:
    @NickG
    When did computer programmers start calling themselves engineers, do you now get a Bachelor of Engineering Degree if you study programming?

    Many moons back I was a COBOL programmer on IBM mainframes and we never called each other engineers.

    At some point programming began to be called sofware engineering and computer hardware engineering came to be called architecture. As time went on that architecture designation seemed to go away; also the word “software” began to be dropped from “software engineering.”

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  112. @Hibernian
    "...no there are no engineers at Google..."

    They've got to have a few hardware engineers in the Bay Area. Also I think they own the old Motorola Mobility in Chicago.

    Yeah, hardware … gonna be some engineering involved.

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  113. Hibernian says:
    @jesse helms think-alike
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mastrangel-brown-b33343a

    how raciss of Google to hire a non AA diversity commissar

    http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Danielle+Mastrangel+Brown+TechCrunch+Disrupt+fQC0_cb5Syal.jpg

    With the maiden name Mastrangel she might be Hispanic. A white Hispanic, to be sure.

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  114. @Anatoly Karlin
    https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

    If you feel isolated by this, that your views are basically unwelcome in tech and can’t be spoken about… well, that’s a fair point. These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.

    I’m writing this here, in this message, because I’m no longer at the company and can say this sort of thing openly. But I want to make it very clear: if you were in my reporting chain, all of part (3) would have been replaced with a short “this is not acceptable” and maybe that last paragraph above. You would have heard part (3) in a much smaller meeting, including you, me, your manager, your HRBP, and someone from legal. And it would have ended with you being escorted from the building by security and told that your personal items will be mailed to you. And the fact that you think this was “all in the name of open discussion,” and don’t realize any of these deeper consequences, makes this worse, not better.
     

    God, what a smug, ignorant, pontificating and totalitarian creep this guy “Yonatan” is.

    He doesn’t even bother to refute a single claim made in the memo regarding the real possibility of male/female differences. Somehow, this moron thinks that the complete equality of male/female brains is so obvious he doesn’t have to address it.

    Our “elite” in action.

    Maybe Mr. Know-it-all should explain to us how this entire issue of the Journal of Neuroscience Research is nothing but transparent pseudo-science:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jnr.v95.1-2/issuetoc

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  115. Lurker says:
    @BEER/ we're all going to die
    No. Our "elites" are not idiots so much, they are dishonest. Our "elites" are lying, game playing, manipulative, creeps. 21st century two faced court eunuchs.

    Exactly right!

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  116. anonguy says:
    @Carbon blob
    Yeah, I saw that rebuttal too.

    No, not everybody can learn to write real code.

    Yes, developers have to learn to deal with requirements and compliance issues and such, but a good manager insulates his or her developers from that stuff as much as possible.

    No, not everybody can learn to write real code.

    Joel is right. Java opened the floodgates for reasonably bright individuals to start calling themselves “engineers” by being modestly productive at scut programming work.

    Not that Java is for scut work, hardly, but array out of bounds exceptions and null pointer exceptions especially allowed scut work portions of a product to be handled by low skill individuals.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?
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  117. anonguy says:
    @Alice
    Yes. These people have the title software engineer.

    Their degrees are in departments named Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (Cal, MIT) or Computer Science and Engineering. These departments are inside the engineering schools/colleges of their respective universities.

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or "IT professional" in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.

    Programmers, by contrast, may be self taught. Maybe they took a few courses in a given language or in web design. IT professionals may have learned how to administer a database or configure a server. Usually they don't know anything about how to think about modern software.

    A software engineer is different than a programmer or “IT professional” in that the SW engineer took courses in writing e.g. compilers, programming languages, and operating systems, as well as electives in say, distributed computing or comp graphics or theoretical topics like crypto or computability/complexity/algorithms. Learning to write code in a given language (how to program in Java/spark/python/Haskell) is not taught per se in the SW engineering major. The specific language is a tool for implementing the course material.

    That still isn’t engineering except by the Humpty Dumpty rule of what a word means.

    Interesting your name is Alice.

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  118. Mr. Anon says:
    @syonredux
    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

    Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I’m not going to link to it here as it’s not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

    Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we’ll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said. “


    Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it’s often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that’s why I took this job.

    Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

    I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves—TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

    Thanks,

    Danielle

    http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the-full-10-page-anti-diversity-screed-1797564320

    Here is a picture of Google’s Special Commissar for Diversity, Strelnikov Danielle Brown

    She doesn’t seem to be wearing enough flair (but, that’s her choice), so I question how committed she is to the team.

    Read More
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  119. Anonym says:
    @Desiderius

    If high IQ, drive, achievement and the like are both desireable traits and highly heritable, then why is careerism in women possessing those traits encouraged?
     
    Tragedy of the commons. Smaller family sizes-->smart girls pressured to carry on the family name/support parents through high achievement. Daughters filling the roles of missing sons.

    Tragedy of the commons. Smaller family sizes–>smart girls pressured to carry on the family name/support parents through high achievement. Daughters filling the roles of missing sons.

    That may be a factor for some cases but the majority have been conditioned by feminist media and various other sources to flinch when they hear “homemaker”, “good provider”, “go to school to find a good husband”, “division of labor in the household”, “prime reproductive years”, “barefoot and pregnant” and so on and so forth.

    Some parents make the mistake of reinforcing the PC norms. They should say that their greatest power is in reproduction so best to find the best man possible who is capable and willing to provide for a large family. One of your advantages in life will be that few women will be seriously competing with you at the age and stage you will be competing with others. There are plenty of areas in life where the secret fashy knowledge/attitude is an advantage in life. E.g. honestly how attractive is it for a man to find some ultra-liberal feminist vegan cat owner?

    I guess the Simpsons did show the other side of the coin at least once, to their credit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The one who convinces her rivals not to compete at all often has a leg up over those focused merely on besting their rivals.

    Affinity groups between the individual and universal can allow cooperation to emerge out of competition.

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  120. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonguy

    No, not everybody can learn to write real code.
     
    Joel is right. Java opened the floodgates for reasonably bright individuals to start calling themselves "engineers" by being modestly productive at scut programming work.

    Not that Java is for scut work, hardly, but array out of bounds exceptions and null pointer exceptions especially allowed scut work portions of a product to be handled by low skill individuals.

    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Have you ever played any of the old Sierra games?

    In Leisure Suit Larry 2, the title character meets a beautiful native girl on an exotic tropical island in the South Pacific. The "Test of Island Courage" that he must pass to win her father's approval is the ultimate challenge for any virile young man: writing a program from scratch in PC assembly language.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q4rYhQpGmRI#t=1h22m50s

    (I'm on a girly iPad, so the above link doesn't work for me. The part I'm talking about begins at 1:22:50, or thereabouts.)
    , @Alice
    No, because the growing complexity prevents those from average ability from being effective.

    This is already happening, and we're reaching the point where the systems are too complex to rebuild if any event knocks this stuff off line.

    As the layers of abstraction increase, no one understand the systems. So many moving parts are present now that any given person has a much harder time knowing the effects and side effects on their system.

    Coding isn't getting "easier", as a result. It is being "dumbed down". Yes, there are more and more people who are basically "coding by Google" where they just search for code that might do something that maybe kinda what they and they cut n paste. But they can't think it through; can't debug; can't solve a problem.

    So the tip top As are writing more and more code to turn out mechanism for the Cs to just push a button. But then you only need a monkey, not a person. This isn't like an army it David's with their own diy 3d printer. This is like Idiocracy.

    And there's even fewer people who can't fix or implement the system.
    , @anonguy

    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?
     
    A very good thing. In general, as a design goal for any system, I hew towards with Herman Wouk's observation in The Caine Mutiny, an excellent read, BTW:

    "The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots."
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  121. @theo the kraut
    https://yonatanzunger.com/about

    I come from a large Jewish, Israeli family. On the religious side, it varies from the ultra-Orthodox (In the rabbi business for over 2,500 years) to ultra-secular (Karl Marx is my Nth cousin), and watching this discourse play out left me deeply interested in all the related matters, from individual faith (and how it differs for people) to the social meaning of religion. On the political side, you can’t grow up with wars breaking out at the drop of a hat and not become a news junkie. You just can’t. So I read it compulsively. And analyze it compulsively, looking for signals of what’s really going on and what’s about to happen.

    I wonder how many of Steve’s regular commenters have at least one Jewish grandparent.

    For the record, I’m all goy, all of the time.

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  122. The outrage over this man’s opinion seems like a complete nothingburger to me. But honest, sensible, opinionated, well-reasoned argument will always outrage a certain segment of the population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The outrage is tactical.

    In times where men take care not to reward it, its impact is minimal.
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  123. @Anonymous
    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?

    Have you ever played any of the old Sierra games?

    In Leisure Suit Larry 2, the title character meets a beautiful native girl on an exotic tropical island in the South Pacific. The “Test of Island Courage” that he must pass to win her father’s approval is the ultimate challenge for any virile young man: writing a program from scratch in PC assembly language.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q4rYhQpGmRI#t=1h22m50s

    (I’m on a girly iPad, so the above link doesn’t work for me. The part I’m talking about begins at 1:22:50, or thereabouts.)

    Read More
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  124. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    That’s funny. Though any bright late 80s/early 90s kid knew how to crack DOS games. It wasn’t programming but it did give a good basic knowledge of the language.

    Read More
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  125. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Loveofknowledge
    It's really astounding that the idea that men and women are biologically different has become so controversial. I think everybody deep down knows that it's true, you're just not supposed to talk about it openly. Same for biological race differences.

    I'm not even saying that it's inherently wrong for a society to have things we all know to be true but consider it impolite to bring up or dwell on. Probably most societies have various taboos like that, around things like sex, death, etc.

    The problem for me, as a white man, is that denialism of biological race and sex differences inevitably leads to unfair hatred, resentment, blaming, scapegoating, and vilifying of white men.

    There's no way around it - significant disparities in average group outcomes exist and are plain to see - so how do you explain the disparities? If you deny that biology is a factor, somebody or something else has to be blamed for it. And that something is going to be some sort of unjust societal discrimination perpetrated and maintained by white men. I'm not saying it doesn't exist it all, but it's nowhere near a sufficient cause.

    If you don't want me to talk about biological race and sex differences, then you have to stop blaming and attacking me (and other white guys) for causing the disparities. Otherwise, I have no choice but to bring it up, simply out of self-defense.

    One thing I disagree with the author about is that I support mentoring-type programs aimed specifically at women in technology ("Girls who Code", etc.) - not because women are equal to men on average in talent and interest in programming, but precisely because they're not.

    What if I have a daughter someday who is good at and interested in science and technology? This is not just an abstract question, I'm a huge math and science geek and we know that intelligence and personality traits are heritable. I would want her to cultivate her interests and go as far as her talents would take her, and I can imagine it being good for her to be around other girls and not be intimated by the inherently more aggressive, more numerous, and more talented boys in the field.

    I think most guys in tech want to support the few women who really are good at and interested in this stuff, but people need to stop attacking and blaming us for the average differences.

    It’s really astounding that the idea that men and women are biologically different has become so controversial. I think everybody deep down knows that it’s true, you’re just not supposed to talk about it openly.

    The thing about it is, they do admit it, sometimes. Like, for example. If you say that you’re tired of hearing about transgender people and putting up with their little fantasies, the average Google employee would tell you that of course transgenderism is real. If you were to scan the brain of a “trans woman”, supposedly you’d find that “her” brain is more like that of a real woman than of a man. Despite what his genitals and chromosomes might say.

    You can poke holes in the logic of all that easily enough, but the point is, they acknowledge that there IS a difference when you talk about that. They just never acknowledge that there are differences between men and women unless they need to in order to advance a further level of poz.

    It’s kind of like how liberals claim that IQ is totally meaningless, until you tell them that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes one more thing for them to be smug about.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    It’s kind of like how liberals claim that IQ is totally meaningless, until you tell them that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes one more thing for them to be smug about.
     
    But is this true?
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  126. @Anatoly Karlin
    Odds on him getting doxed and/or fired?

    Actually having him admit to and abjectly apologize publicly for his thought crimes will be Google’s goal. After admitting that he really truly does love Big Brother, he will then begin a second career as a reformed racist and go around and give pep talks to minority 8th graders about why they should pursue a STEM career.

    Read More
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  127. @Anonym
    Tragedy of the commons. Smaller family sizes–>smart girls pressured to carry on the family name/support parents through high achievement. Daughters filling the roles of missing sons.

    That may be a factor for some cases but the majority have been conditioned by feminist media and various other sources to flinch when they hear "homemaker", "good provider", "go to school to find a good husband", "division of labor in the household", "prime reproductive years", "barefoot and pregnant" and so on and so forth.

    https://youtu.be/JE9uBl8PO5k

    Some parents make the mistake of reinforcing the PC norms. They should say that their greatest power is in reproduction so best to find the best man possible who is capable and willing to provide for a large family. One of your advantages in life will be that few women will be seriously competing with you at the age and stage you will be competing with others. There are plenty of areas in life where the secret fashy knowledge/attitude is an advantage in life. E.g. honestly how attractive is it for a man to find some ultra-liberal feminist vegan cat owner?

    I guess the Simpsons did show the other side of the coin at least once, to their credit.

    https://youtu.be/Q60wHn1-rgE

    The one who convinces her rivals not to compete at all often has a leg up over those focused merely on besting their rivals.

    Affinity groups between the individual and universal can allow cooperation to emerge out of competition.

    Read More
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  128. @Pavel Schlmavel
    The outrage over this man's opinion seems like a complete nothingburger to me. But honest, sensible, opinionated, well-reasoned argument will always outrage a certain segment of the population.

    The outrage is tactical.

    In times where men take care not to reward it, its impact is minimal.

    Read More
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  129. Alice says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Nope, Alice, Nick G. is correct. None of that stuff is engineering. If you are not working with the physical laws of nature, you are not doing engineering, period.

    This is not to say that all or any of this stuff is easy. However, if you take a big picture of what you do, and see that all the rules and methods of what you do for a living are man-made, then you should know you are not an engineer. It's that simple.

    Yes, the departments of Comp-Sci and engineering are together at many schools, but that doesn't change who you are.

    Actually what I studied wasn’t engineering, and it isn’t what I do these days.. I have much better job, wife and mother.

    But your analogy is in error. Engineering is the man-made application of the laws of nature to solve problems. Electrical engineering created man-made computing through circuits built on the actual quantum physics and chemistry. That we apparently made models of computation doesn’t mean the rules for this models were arbitrary. In fact, they were more accurately discovered themselves, as they come from mathematics, a field of discovery of truths, not inventions of them, and can be proved to be related to each other.

    So computer science (a poor name, I agree) is a name for the man made application of the laws of computing. Software engineers create solutions by applying the mathematical laws of computation. These “laws” aren’t usually phrased this way but that doesn’t change the reality.

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  130. Alice says:
    @Anonymous
    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?

    No, because the growing complexity prevents those from average ability from being effective.

    This is already happening, and we’re reaching the point where the systems are too complex to rebuild if any event knocks this stuff off line.

    As the layers of abstraction increase, no one understand the systems. So many moving parts are present now that any given person has a much harder time knowing the effects and side effects on their system.

    Coding isn’t getting “easier”, as a result. It is being “dumbed down”. Yes, there are more and more people who are basically “coding by Google” where they just search for code that might do something that maybe kinda what they and they cut n paste. But they can’t think it through; can’t debug; can’t solve a problem.

    So the tip top As are writing more and more code to turn out mechanism for the Cs to just push a button. But then you only need a monkey, not a person. This isn’t like an army it David’s with their own diy 3d printer. This is like Idiocracy.

    And there’s even fewer people who can’t fix or implement the system.

    Read More
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  131. anonguy says:
    @Anonymous
    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?

    As computers increase in power and coding becomes more abstracted from hardware, it will eventually become something anybody of average ability can do competently. Surely this is a good thing?

    A very good thing. In general, as a design goal for any system, I hew towards with Herman Wouk’s observation in The Caine Mutiny, an excellent read, BTW:

    “The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots.”

    Read More
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  132. anonguy says:
    @anon
    It’s really astounding that the idea that men and women are biologically different has become so controversial. I think everybody deep down knows that it’s true, you’re just not supposed to talk about it openly.

    The thing about it is, they do admit it, sometimes. Like, for example. If you say that you're tired of hearing about transgender people and putting up with their little fantasies, the average Google employee would tell you that of course transgenderism is real. If you were to scan the brain of a "trans woman", supposedly you'd find that "her" brain is more like that of a real woman than of a man. Despite what his genitals and chromosomes might say.

    You can poke holes in the logic of all that easily enough, but the point is, they acknowledge that there IS a difference when you talk about that. They just never acknowledge that there are differences between men and women unless they need to in order to advance a further level of poz.

    It's kind of like how liberals claim that IQ is totally meaningless, until you tell them that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes one more thing for them to be smug about.

    It’s kind of like how liberals claim that IQ is totally meaningless, until you tell them that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes one more thing for them to be smug about.

    But is this true?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I don't know whether it's true or not. I doubt that there's that much of a difference, on average. I just know that, for awhile there, every time there was an election, someone would put out this fake article about a fake study that showed that Democratic voters had higher IQs than Republican ones.

    A lot of them fell for it, and seemed really proud that their side did better on that formerly meaningless test.
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  133. Moses says:
    @anonymous coward

    So what does Google do when they track this guy down? Fire him? Make him recant and then fire him? Publicly defenestrate him?
     
    Make him recant and then fire him. We've done this script many times before.

    The North Koreans call that “self criticism” time.

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  134. NickG says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Exactly, Nick. I would think if you were a COBOL programmer, you'd probably be calling each other "Gramps" ;-}

    Exactly, Nick. I would think if you were a COBOL programmer, you’d probably be calling each other “Gramps” ;-

    I last wrote code in the late 80s, and I’m 57, so you have a point. Though there is still plenty of legacy COBOL code running and COBOL coding jobs are still out there.

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  135. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    The funniest thing about that stupid note is what some reader highlighted (probably as profound truth):

    "Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers."
     

    Nothing says “collaberation” quite like If you don’t like my idea then I’ll let it be known you’re contributing to a toxic atmosphere for women/PoC at the company.

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  136. It is amusing that Danielle Brown is Google’s “VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance”.

    It is understandable that a company whose mission is focussed on technology and advertising needs a VP to think about diversity and governance. But integrity? This suggests that either:

    (1) Integrity is not something that Google sees as part of the job of every executive;
    (2) This VP’s role is makework, BS, and window-dressing;
    (3) Both of the above.

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  137. Unfortunately for those who have managed to escape from white male cis-gendered heterosexuals, the “oppression” does not stop. Coraline Ada Ehmke is a respected coder, who landed her dream job in a “Community & Safety” team comprising “5 women and one man: two of us trans, three women of color”.

    She was fired by her female manager for, among other things, multiple instances of a “non-empathetic communication style”.

    This is an example of “social justice” biting back: if you want a workplace in which minorities are treated as special snowflakes, then your own dealings with those employees will be scrutinised for petty transgressions.

    http://where.coraline.codes/blog/my-year-at-github/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon

    I was well aware of GitHub's very problematic past, from its promotion of meritocracy in place of a management system to the horrible treatment and abuse of its female employees and other people from diverse backgrounds.
     
    Just what in Hell is ostensibly diverse about females I cannot say; they are a majority of the population and they exist in every place and in every situation that males do; if they did not, humans would soon enough be extinct. Indeed, no single person can be diverse nor "of [a] diverse background..." (whatever the Hell that latter means). A group of people can be diverse: a group including an sniper, a combat medic, and a translator have a more diverse range of occupations than one of three dentists.* Diversity is necessarily an adjective requiring comparisions and so not applicable to any single referent in a vacuum. In any event, the diverse group are handy for, say, a team of Navy SEALs; but not so much for running a dental practice. Diversity in and if itself has no value; any value it may have is entirely contextual.

    Meritocracy is no substitute for management, but only in the sense that multiplication is no substitute for trigonometry: meritocracy is an integral aspect of management; a necessary and damned near if concededly not quite aspect of it.

    This writer rejects meritocracy; she is not a serious person. Presumably she believes drooling half-wits are as appropriate as geniuses to lead large firms, those with tremors as qualified as those with steady hands to perform difficult surgeries, and those with perfect pitch and a vocal range of four octaves as talented at singing as a tone-deaf, aryhthmic brute.

    Idiocracy indeed.
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  138. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonguy

    It’s kind of like how liberals claim that IQ is totally meaningless, until you tell them that liberals have higher IQs than conservatives. Then, all of a sudden, it becomes one more thing for them to be smug about.
     
    But is this true?

    I don’t know whether it’s true or not. I doubt that there’s that much of a difference, on average. I just know that, for awhile there, every time there was an election, someone would put out this fake article about a fake study that showed that Democratic voters had higher IQs than Republican ones.

    A lot of them fell for it, and seemed really proud that their side did better on that formerly meaningless test.

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius
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  139. @Seneca
    Thanks for the link. Great discussion.

    Also two gorgeous brilliant conservative young ladies who are easy on the eyes...how refreshing!
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  140. @James N. Kennett
    Unfortunately for those who have managed to escape from white male cis-gendered heterosexuals, the "oppression" does not stop. Coraline Ada Ehmke is a respected coder, who landed her dream job in a "Community & Safety" team comprising "5 women and one man: two of us trans, three women of color".

    She was fired by her female manager for, among other things, multiple instances of a "non-empathetic communication style".

    This is an example of "social justice" biting back: if you want a workplace in which minorities are treated as special snowflakes, then your own dealings with those employees will be scrutinised for petty transgressions.

    http://where.coraline.codes/blog/my-year-at-github/

    I was well aware of GitHub’s very problematic past, from its promotion of meritocracy in place of a management system to the horrible treatment and abuse of its female employees and other people from diverse backgrounds.

    Just what in Hell is ostensibly diverse about females I cannot say; they are a majority of the population and they exist in every place and in every situation that males do; if they did not, humans would soon enough be extinct. Indeed, no single person can be diverse nor “of [a] diverse background…” (whatever the Hell that latter means). A group of people can be diverse: a group including an sniper, a combat medic, and a translator have a more diverse range of occupations than one of three dentists.* Diversity is necessarily an adjective requiring comparisions and so not applicable to any single referent in a vacuum. In any event, the diverse group are handy for, say, a team of Navy SEALs; but not so much for running a dental practice. Diversity in and if itself has no value; any value it may have is entirely contextual.

    Meritocracy is no substitute for management, but only in the sense that multiplication is no substitute for trigonometry: meritocracy is an integral aspect of management; a necessary and damned near if concededly not quite aspect of it.

    This writer rejects meritocracy; she is not a serious person. Presumably she believes drooling half-wits are as appropriate as geniuses to lead large firms, those with tremors as qualified as those with steady hands to perform difficult surgeries, and those with perfect pitch and a vocal range of four octaves as talented at singing as a tone-deaf, aryhthmic brute.

    Idiocracy indeed.

    Read More
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  141. @Yan Shen
    Of course the irony here is that Google, like most elite tech companies in Silicon Valley, actually has a slight under-representation of whites in technical roles relative to their overall population percentage.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/google-diversity-statistics-2017-2017-6

    At Google it appears that whites make up 53% of those in technical roles, while Asians make up 39%, which is vastly disproportionate to their overall percentage among the population. Someone like Jared Taylor will quickly point that out in response to liberals complaining about the status quo.

    Below is a rare instance where even a progressive site like the Young Turks latches on to this fact.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPcR1x970Hk

    Males though are still over-represented I suppose, so maybe the uh gender angle is valid...

    Moreover, a large fraction of the “whites” are no doubt Jewish. Probably only 30–40% of Google’s tech employees are white gentile men, in a country where they’re 70% of the workforce. This puts the lie to any claims that what matters is improving the representation of “underrepresented” groups.

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  142. Brutusale says:
    @Clyde

    Update 7:25pm ET: Google’s new Vice President of Diversity, Integrity & Governance, Danielle Brown, issued the following statement in response to the internal employee memo:

    Googlers,

    I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land.....blah blab blah...
     

    Is Danielle black or white? Either way here is your diversity rent seeker apparatchik in her high paying make work job.In cases like this a photo is helpful but I don't see any. She is living proof how women latch onto male achievement in the tech fields. They cannot do tech so they babble away. Drink enough free coffee at the Googleplex and you can babble away until infinity.

    Danielle Brown is token high-yella former Spice Girl Mel B.’s little sister.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_B

    She is a twofer in the tech world, so she gets to ride the merry-go-round.

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/intels-former-chief-diversity-and-inclusion-officer-has-left-the-company/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Bad link information. I so wanted it to be true!
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  143. Brutusale says:
    @Brutusale
    Danielle Brown is token high-yella former Spice Girl Mel B.'s little sister.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_B

    She is a twofer in the tech world, so she gets to ride the merry-go-round.

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/intels-former-chief-diversity-and-inclusion-officer-has-left-the-company/

    Bad link information. I so wanted it to be true!

    Read More
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