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Did White Men Invent the Modern World?
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The reason a college undergrad gets globally denounced for saying that white men invented the modern world is not because it’s false but because it’s so true.

Granted, that’s not what Google tells you if you search on American inventors:

Screenshot 2018-12-12 03.09.15

But from my 2003 review of Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment in The American Conservative:

Human Accomplishment sheds fascinating light on identity-politics issues. Women, for instance, account for merely 2 percent of the 4,002 personages. They are strongest in Japanese literature, with 8 percent of the significant names, including the third-ranked Japanese writer, Lady Murasaki Shikibu, author of the thousand-year-old proto-novel The Tale of Genji. Women are particularly insignificant in composing classical music (0.2 percent) and inventing technology (0.0 percent). Is this changing much? Murray unofficially glanced at who “flourished” after 1950 (depressingly to me, he assumes careers peak at age 40) and found female accomplishment to be up sharply only in literature. In fact, the percentage of Nobel Prizes won by women fell from 4 percent in the first half of the 20th century to 3 percent in the second.

Still, Murray’s rankings may be slightly unfair to female artists because they are less likely to have brilliant followers. My wife, for example, was incensed that Jane Austen finished behind the lumbering Theodore Dreiser and the flashy Ezra Pound. Yet, these men probably did have more influence on other major writers. That’s because subsequent famous authors were mostly male and thus less interested than the female half of the human race in Austen’s topics, such as finding a husband.

Dead white European males dominate his inventories, despite Murray reserving eight of his 21 categories (including Arabic literature, Indian philosophy, and Chinese visual art) for non-Western arts.

In the sciences, 97 percent of the significant figures and events turned out to be Western. Is this merely Eurocentric bias? Of the 36 science reference books he drew upon, 28 were published after 1980, by which time historians were desperately searching for non-Westerners to praise. Only in this decade has the most advanced non-Western country, Japan, begun to win science Nobels regularly.

As I wrote back in 2002 in VDARE.com:

For his encyclopedic Modern Mind: An Intellectual History of the 20th Century, Peter Watson interviewed 150 scholars from around the world about who was responsible for the great innovations. Watson recounted that

“…all of them—there were no exceptions—said the same thing. In the 20th century, in the modern world, there were no non-western ideas of note.”

Maybe this is a little unfair to the Japanese, whose Just-in-Time manufacturing was hugely important. And to some nonwhites in the West who came up with good ideas like jazz. Overall, though, the dominance of whites is just so hugely apparent that it’s in bad taste to talk about it.

Cheerleading for Euro-Americans seems as pointless as cheerleading for men would be. It’s mildly interesting that a woman invented Liquid Paper whiteout fluid (namely, Bette Nesmith Graham, a secretary and the mother of Mike Nesmith of The Monkees). But the fact that a man invented Post-It Notes is not interesting—because we all know that men invent more or less everything.

 
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  1. My wife, for example, was incensed that Jane Austen finished behind the lumbering Theodore Dreiser and the flashy Ezra Pound. Yet, these men probably did have more influence on other major writers.

    Besides George Eliot, Henry James, Lewis Carroll, Oscar Wilde, E. M. Forster, Virginia Woolf, Muriel Spark, Iris Murdoch, John Updike, Martin Amis, Fay Weldon–yes who, just who has ever been influenced by Jane Austen?

    As opposed to Dreiser, who influenced Match Point and uh, that big thing before Match Point, what was it? A Place In the Sun? A Raisin in the Sun? A Tree Grows in Lake Big Moose? Plus I think Sister Carrie’s hips once “rolled” or something, which must have been quite a revelation in the ‘teens.

    As for “flashy” [lolzolzozl] Pound, we’ll always have the Pisan Cantos and his zig-a-zig-ah editing of The Wasteland. But don’t hold your breath for a second Van Buren term.

    But maybe Feryl can be along to explain how the Baby Boomers of the Regency so screwed over the youth that they had to invent Wuthering Heights as a corrective. Such a theory would require no more erudition or genuine analysis, after all, than hoovering up the indices of college primers into Excel and publishing it as a Father’s Day book . . . .

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Rosamond Vincy
  2. Maybe this is a little unfair to […] some nonwhites in the West who came up with good ideas like jazz.

    Jazz was a good idea? I’d rather listen to the yowling of an angry alley cat with throat cancer.

  3. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says:

    From 2011 but relevant.

    • Replies: @aandrews
  4. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lucius Somesuch

    What happened to your website?

  5. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says:

    If Google logic was applied to “greatest NBA players”.

    https://images.spot.im/v1/production/xmmrsl7o2bjk8svgdbb6

  6. Carol says:
    @Playing Mantis

    Jazz is just an extension of the improvisation someone like Beethoven or Chopin could do for hours, with better harmony. But the latter could immediately write it all down. (Actually, Chopin’s friends said his best stuff was never written down.)

    But who needs to write down his best impromptus in the age of recording?

  7. bjondo says:

    the important stuff:

    surfing
    skateboarding
    hang gliding
    para sailing
    cliff, mountain scaling
    building scaling
    in-line skating
    jumping
    cycling
    droning

  8. Stick says:

    But, what about peanut butter?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  9. Murray’s ranking system always made more sense for evaluating contributions in science and technology than it did for the arts, which are far more nebulous and subjective to evaluate. It’s certainly the case that nearly all writers and composers who have been most influential in (Western-dominated) global culture were Western white men, but that’s almost tautological. I don’t think the artistic output of all cultures is of equal interest, but Murray’s attempt to quantify it was shallow and silly.

    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @sj
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @syonredux
  10. songbird says:
    @Playing Mantis

    I think Big Band music is okay. I never could listen to the other stuff and thought of it as form of virtue-signaling. I’m sure there was a big drop in ratings any time the jazz hour started.

  11. Trevor H. says:
    @Playing Mantis

    Jazz is one of those things that either you get, or you don’t. Now, tell me why blacks never needed affirmative action in order to thrive in the performing arts? Hint: it’s the same reason they didn’t need it to thrive in professional sports.

  12. @Playing Mantis

    You’re thinking bebop and the like, which is probably the “blackest” variety of jazz (I can’t stand it either).  For something much whiter try Al Dimeola or The Rippingtons.

    Like night and day, no?  And then there’s goofy stuff like this:

  13. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    Only in this decade has the most advanced non-Western country, Japan, begun to win science Nobels regularly.

    Nobels are politicized

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229007550_The_Jewish_Bias_of_the_Nobel_Prize

  14. anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:

    Is this merely Eurocentric bias? Of the 36 science reference books he drew upon, 28 were published after 1980, by which time historians were desperately searching for non-Westerners to praise.

    I think that would be the case for high school world history textbooks but not in general. There isn’t “desperation” to be more inclusive outside of areas like literature that are full blown left wing.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  15. Truth says:

    …No, Khazars did.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  16. Pat Boyle says:

    Did white men invent the modern world? I just started “The Rise of the West” by William McNeill. It’s about 900 pages and I’m at page two. So check back later.

    • LOL: fish
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  17. Tiny Duck says:

    Africa was the most advanced region in the world until white men showed up and enslaved them. Then, the slaves unwillingly helped build what is now America. To consider the idea that white people are solely responsible for the modern world is simply foolish.

    white people HAVE NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF

    Europe’s advancement were at the expense of the rest of the world. The things you call “petty”, the rest of the WORLD calls SLAVERY and COLONIALISM

  18. “nonwhites in the West who came up with good ideas like jazz.”

    I hate to keep saying this since I don’t really care about jazz, but its origins are pretty white.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_%26_Harlan

  19. Steve you ignoramus….you really don’t know very much about American History…now do you?

    Orville and Wilbur Patel were two Sihk brothers from the Punjab Region of India….and what they did at Kitty Hawk NC in 1903 just goes to show that America wouldn’t exist were it not for the technological contributions of Sihk Americans…Pakistani Muslim Americans…and Hindu Americans……..in America’s past…..What happened in 1969 never would have occured without them…….Neil Armstrong was a Punjabi American…..

    Thomas Edison was a Punjabi Man also…..

  20. Mr. Anon says:

    Wow! I didn’t know that Thomas Edison was a black man.

    You learn somethin’ everyday.

  21. Ibound1 says:

    When the modern world has faults, racism, colonialism, sexism, fascism, homophobia, harassment, the Confederacy, red-lining, inequality, the horrible unrepresentative Senate and Supreme Court etc., you bet white men made this world. They made it 100% and it is all their fault. All the other stuff, elevators, bridges, medicine, computers, aircraft, automobiles, trains, television, satellites etc, -all of that is simply here, like the earth and the sky.

    • Replies: @jordan
  22. no they stole it all. for instance, william shockley stole the plans for the transistor from a pygmy in ooga booga.

    • LOL: jim jones
  23. Buck says:

    “Maybe this is a little unfair to the Japanese, whose Just-in-Time manufacturing was hugely important. ”

    Ditto, along with Continuous Improvement, Kaisen, the Kanban system. Motorola introduced 6 Sigma which helped U.S. management try to catch up but it was really the Japanese management style which revolutionized manufacturing.

    What is lesser talked about is how new management revolutionized consumerism. We now expect products to be of much higher quality. The classic example is how Japanese auto makers destroyed U.S. competitors in the 80’s over quality. Through continuous improvement, every auto maker is now much, much better at making quality cars which every consumer takes for granted.

    This attitude has transferred to almost every product category. We expect our produce to be fresher than in the 70’s. The quality of our restaurants is vastly superior to 40 years ago. We expect two-day delivery anywhere in the country.

    There are a few notable exceptions where it seems quality has declined. Consumer durables, like washing machines, seem to be less durable. Housing seems to be less quality than 100 years ago, but probably better than 40 years ago. Same with furniture. These industries are probably ripe for disruption.

    So when it comes to inventions which have touched our lives the most, Japanese management innovations were a late 20th century godsend.

  24. tyrone says:

    Here we go with the wild bears again ,be careful where you step.

  25. Aardvark says:

    What are some of the things that allow us to live a better “modern” existence?

    Electricity delivered to the home.
    Airplanes to fly long distances.
    Automobiles, for travelling local, long distance or creating babies in…
    Chlorinated water delivery to the home to improve health.
    Vaccines (although they have been perverted by Pharma…).
    Antibiotics.
    Telegraph, Telephone, Cell phone…
    Audio equipment – namely radio and phonograph to start with.
    The earliest designs for evaporative and mechanical cooling with led to refrigeration and perhaps A/C.
    Plastics and that nifty substance used for Post-It-Notes.

    I could go on and on but I’m pretty sure the originators of these modern conveniences fit with the subject…

    • Replies: @bjondo
  26. Jack D says:

    It depends on who you call “white” and when you think the “modern world” began. Take for example the astrolabe, a key navigational tool. These were originally developed by the ancient Greeks but their knowledge was preserved by (or at least under – many of the scholars in the Arab world were not Muslim) the Arabs and the early European versions were bought from the Arab world. It’s hard to conceive today that Europe would depend on Arabs to provide them with high tech precision instruments but that was exactly the situation at one point.

    In general, the Arabs were important in preserving Greek mathematics and scholarship during the period when the West was not interested in this stuff and so they helped set the stage for the Renaissance and for the wealth explosion that followed when Western explorers discovered the New World and opened up trade routes with Asia. The flip side of this was that the wealth of the Arab world waned because the new sea routes bypassed the overland Silk Route.

  27. @Almost Missouri

    There’s a passage in Schumann’s anthology for solo piano, “Kinderszcenen” (Scenes from Childhood), where, for only about four bars, he starts to really swing, in a highly syncopated fashion. For a brief moment, an early 19th cent German Romantic sounds like Jelly Roll Morton. Then he just sort of drops the idea and goes back to being German.

    Since the idea went no further, one can’t claim that Schumann invented jazz. But it just goes to show that lots of these ideas are very old. If you want to talk about great improvisation, you start with J. S. Bach, the greatest improviser in modern music history. If you want to talk about the blues, you start with Irish fiddlers and English balladeers of the 18th century. But then you get to the highly original ideas blacks contributed to that foundation, then how those ideas were further adapted by later white musicians, and so forth. Nothing exists in a vacuum. It’s churlish for anyone to think so, white or black.

  28. Looking at that Twitter feed, the PC people lump every non-European accomplishment together as if it came from the same culture, they also ignore details like the Persians being as white as the Europeans. Most of inventions they cite as non-European come from nation, China.

  29. Ironically Karl Marx grew up classically educated. He wrote his doctoral thesis on the philosophy of Greek atomism, and as an adult he would reportedly read Aeschylus’ tragedies in their original language for pleasure. He had also read deeply into the later works of Western canonical literature, and he could quote from memory from the writings of Dante, Shakespeare and Goethe. His colleague Friedrich Engels could also hold his own in the realm of discussing Western high culture knowledgeably.

    The socialist radicals who followed them in the next generation or two also showed an appreciation of the best thinking of dead white men:

    https://mises.org/library/literature-and-class-war

    Yet Marx’s more remote heirs in the left’s adversarial culture now reject the Western tradition, probably because of the dumbing down of educational standards that result from the cult of diversity and conclusion. The coarse and animalistic minds of more and more of today’s college “students” can’t process the difficult syntax and unfamiliar words in Western literature, so college professors have to provide far inferior substitutes written by women, nonwhites and people with broken sexuality.

    In other words, Karl Marx’s implicit view of the accomplishments of white men has more in common with Julian Von Abele’s than with his critics’.

  30. Kevlar was invented by a woman.

    • Replies: @Opening Tirade
  31. istevefan says:
    @Jack D

    Did the Arabs preserve it or did the Byzantines?

    Even if you credit the Arabs, you are crediting them for preserving ancient European knowledge which helped to form the modern world.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  32. Inside Higher Ed article about it, with 54 second video of the “racist rant”:

    Racist Rant Roils Columbia

    “White people are the best thing that ever happened to the world,” the racist Columbia student shouted. The university is investigating the incident but would not confirm whether the student will face disciplinary action.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/12/11/columbia-student-goes-racist-tirade-fellow-students

  33. YES. Glad to have clarified that for everyone.

  34. jb says:

    Did someone just get globally denounced? I must have missed it. Link?

  35. When I was a kid, we learned pretty much every year, that George Washington Carver invented peanut butter and was therefore the greatest inventor ever. Alas, per wikipedia’s peanut butter entry…

    As the US National Peanut Board confirms, “Contrary to popular belief, George Washington Carver did not invent peanut butter.”[10] Carver was given credit in popular folklore for many inventions that did not come out of his lab. By the time Carver published his document about peanuts, entitled “How to Grow the Peanut and 105 Ways of Preparing it For Human Consumption” in 1916,[11] many methods of preparation of peanut butter had been developed or patented by various pharmacists, doctors, and food scientists working in the US and Canada.[12][13][9] January 24 is National Peanut Butter Day in the United States.[14]

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  36. Someone needs to go through Charles Murray’s work with a fine tooth comb and include Great Accomplishments that are negative, such as psychoanalysis, Boasian anthropology, Frankfurt School sociology, Gould and Lewontin’s “theory of evolution”, and so forth.

    Of course, establishing the magnitude of these Great Accomplishments would be controversial, since the damage they caused and are still causing must ultimately be measured in terms of the changes to the value of the gene pool from dysgenics.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
  37. @War for Blair Mountain

    And don’t forget Buzz Sandeep…..Buzz’s parents were from the Rajistan area…….Both Buzz and Neil are-were Bollywood fans…….

  38. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Orville and Wilbur Patel were two Sihk brothers from the Punjab Region of India…

    Brazilians claim they were the first to fly but it seems like they were hopping along the ground according to the description

  39. Truth says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Dude, for cryin’ out loud.

    I’d never heard of The Rippingtons before, but they could have named that album; “I’m a Fag.”

    • Agree: Futurethirdworlder
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  40. @Almost Missouri

    Of course it was influenced and developed from various sources, some of which were white. Also, the instruments played and the means to record/broadcast Jazz were invented by whites. But Jazz originates mainly from blacks and mixed race Creoles in New Orleans. Whites were involved in very early Jazz, but to a lesser extent.

    Recording “That Funny Jas Band from Dixieland” doesn’t mean that Jazz originated from Collins & Harlan. They could come up with this title because Jas (or “Jass” and later “Jazz”) bands had already been around for while.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  41. Anonym says:
    @Buck

    So when it comes to inventions which have touched our lives the most, Japanese management innovations were a late 20th century godsend.

    Which were… mostly inititiated by Edwards Deming, a white guy.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

    However, it was a perfect fit for Japanese culture, which is all about perfectionism, being a slave to detail, and gaining trust through reliability.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Anonymous
  42. @War for Blair Mountain

    Steve

    You and your isteve readers may have noticed that all the Astronauts in the Israeli Space Program all have Pakistani surnames and Mohammad for the first name….Ben Shapiro has been so estatic about this…that he has now made the case for an all Pakistani Muslim American NASA Astronaut Program……

  43. syonredux says:
    @anonymous

    I think that would be the case for high school world history textbooks but not in general. There isn’t “desperation” to be more inclusive outside of areas like literature that are full blown left wing.

    Dunno. There are lots and lots of Leftist historians out there…..

  44. bjondo says:
    @Aardvark

    These and other modern conveniences are the ruination of LIFE.

    Sorta like electronics, computers ruin the hell out of driving which ruined horse riding which interfered with walking.

  45. Austin says:
    @Jack D

    In general, the Arabs were important in preserving Greek mathematics and scholarship during the period

    The Muslims Arabs destroyed much more than they saved.
    Most of what was saved was saved by Coptic Christians

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  46. J1234 says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Jazz was a synthesis. It’s unlikely that blacks would’ve come up with it without European influence, but we have to be honest – it’s probably more unlikely that whites would’ve come up with it without African influence. This is, in part, because there was a lot of resistance to jazz – and black cultural influence, generally – in white society, from preachers and educators to Henry Ford. (Ford, rather comically, saw jazz as more Jewish influenced than black influenced. I’m an admirer of Ford, but the truth is the truth.) It’s also because the initial synthesis happened more among black performers than white performers. By the time jazz had arrived, blacks already had a long history of incorporating elements of white music or culture into black music or other art forms – there was little stigma attached to that process in black society.

    So, I mostly see jazz as a black musical form. My perception is tempered, however, by the current counter-rational (i.e. stupid) boilerplate black/leftist cultural argument of, “Hey! You stole that from us!”

    That’s not how culture works, you morons. I’m guessing that the Minoans generally would’ve seen (in a historical sense) their influence on the Greeks as appreciation by the Greeks, not appropriation. (Hey! Give us our columns back!) Scott Joplin admired (and was heavily influenced by) John Phillip Sousa, and according to wiki:

    A longstanding desire of [Charlie] Parker’s was to perform with a string section. He was a keen student of classical music, and contemporaries reported he was most interested in the music and formal innovations of Igor Stravinsky and longed to engage in a project akin to what later became known as Third Stream, a new kind of music, incorporating both jazz and classical elements as opposed to merely incorporating a string section into performance of jazz standards.

    Did Joplin and Parker “steal” from Sousa or classical music? I don’ t think so. Leftists would certainly agree with me on this point, but not on the previous point, revealing their essential lack of principles.

  47. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    It depends on who you call “white” and when you think the “modern world” began. Take for example the astrolabe, a key navigational tool. These were originally developed by the ancient Greeks but their knowledge was preserved by (or at least under – many of the scholars in the Arab world were not Muslim) the Arabs and the early European versions were bought from the Arab world. It’s hard to conceive today that Europe would depend on Arabs to provide them with high tech precision instruments but that was exactly the situation at one point.

    In general, the Arabs were important in preserving Greek mathematics and scholarship during the period when the West was not interested in this stuff and so they helped set the stage for the Renaissance and for the wealth explosion that followed when Western explorers discovered the New World and opened up trade routes with Asia. The flip side of this was that the wealth of the Arab world waned because the new sea routes bypassed the overland Silk Route.

    Here’s a useful comparison:

    Physics
    Figure Index score
    Isaac Newton 100
    Albert Einstein 100
    Ernest Rutherford 88
    Michael Faraday 86
    Galileo Galilei 83

    Mathematics

    Figure Index score
    Leonhard Euler 100
    Isaac Newton 89
    Euclid 83
    Carl Friedrich Gauss 81
    Pierre de Fermat 72

    Biology
    Figure Index score
    Charles Darwin 100
    Aristotle 94
    Jean-Baptiste Lamarck 88
    Georges Cuvier 83
    Thomas Hunt Morgan 75

    Chemistry
    Figure Index score
    Antoine Lavoisier 100
    Jöns Jacob Berzelius 67
    Carl Wilhelm Scheele 53
    Joseph Priestley 49
    Humphry Davy 46

    Have our Middle Eastern friends produced figures of comparable worth?People who can be ranked alongside Newton and Darwin?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @bjondo
    , @Anonymous
    , @El Dato
  48. @Playing Mantis

    From my namesake in the 1994 Whit Stillman movie Barcelona

    My jazz rule is: If you can’t dance to it, you don’t want to know about it.

  49. Us bruthas couldn’t even invent termite sticks in the old country.

  50. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Jews have been enormously influential from about the middle of the 19th century on…..but modernity was already in place by that point.Prior to the mid-19th century, one can single out one or two figures (Ricardo, Spinoza) and argue about a couple of others (Does Montaigne count?), but that’s about it.

    The most important Jew in history was probably St Paul (At least when measured in terms of his impact on the West)……

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Rosamond Vincy
  51. fish says:
    @Buck

    “Through continuous improvement, every auto maker is now much, much better at making quality cars which every consumer takes for granted….”

    Please…..somebody tell Chrysler!

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  52. @Almost Missouri

    Ludwig von Beethoven originated ragtime around 1825, 4 decades before Scott Joplin was born:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  53. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buck

    Just in Time manufacturing is necessary in Japan but for many businesses in the USA is a non solution to a non problem. It and Kanban killed an electronic plant I worked at. We had inventory space out the wazoo. The fundamental issue was we made a product that was too cyclical in order cycles and the company was too stubborn to diversify. People would quit because of too much mandatory overtime and were tough to replace. JIT, kanban, et al were brought in by overpaid consultants to “do something”.

    When the plant shut down one of the engineers flew over and did a victory roll over the parking lot. Too late the small town anti-union cuck workforce realized the dirt bag ex Nortel Canadian execs had used them for a pump and dump: they had planned on failure in the business model. Most of the workers went on disability or moved to St.Louis where house prices in a safe white area (South or West County) were triple.

  54. @Jack D

    In general, the Arabs were important in preserving Greek mathematics and scholarship during the period when the West was not interested in this stuff

    The Arabs and their corsairs’ embargo on Mediterranian travel and even shoreline habitation around the basin CREATED the “dark age” during which scholarship was reduced and lost, in no small part by cutting off the flow of papyrus from Egypt.  It’s no coincidence that the Renaissance had to await the rise of Venice as a sea power that kept the corsairs away.

  55. tanabear says:

    Did White Men Invent the Modern World?

    Yes, but white men also invented the classical world, the ancient world and much of the pre-historical world.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Disagree: Lowe
    • Replies: @Lowe
  56. It is a mistake to think of invention as something struggling from the ground up, Darwin-wise and additive, and thereby to credit the individual inventor with some sort unique and ex nihilo triumph. Inventions are really the common property of the culture; they are only possible within a context which calls them forth and destines both their appearance and their reception. The men of the other great cultures—particularly the Greeks, the Chinese, the Egyptians, and the Babylonians—made all the same discoveries that the “modern world” has made. Often they were made many times, improved, shunned, forgotten; but in those other contexts they lacked the fateful impulse to become part of the culture’s self-evident stock of resources.

    The individual Western engineer conceives innumerable expedients in the course of his practical tinkerings, which expedients we are wont to call “inventions” (mistaking the incidental instance of this or that contraption for the style of the mind-directed activity itself); but nobody ever “invented” the Machine. This was a doom begotten upon us by a higher destiny, something immense, tragic, and demonic under the pressure of which we have altered our society and our economy along a path from which there is no turning.

    The machine is not a thing but a notion, the fruit of a deep-rooted conviction of a Cosmos operating by tensions and distant energies, and therefore belonging of necessity to a particular sort of world-image which the West possessed but which the men of other cultures find alien and incomprehensible. The essence of the machine is “microcosm,” i.e. a little cosmos mirroring the desire of man and obeying his will alone. But like all such productions, there is something phony and (if I may use the metaphor) flaccid about it. To produce this microcosm the native powers of nature are wrung from their natural carriers, abstracted into quantities, and recombined in exact ratios in order that the infinite complexity of preexisting reality may be confined to a single channel of cause and effect. In this as in every other respect, the machine is simply the orchestration of incidents, and there is no difference between a modern jet engine and a child setting up a train of dominoes so that he may watch them fall.

    But with this realization, the whole idea of the machine as creation suffers a fatal blow. The secret seldom acknowledged (seldom, because it would be fatal to our world-vision) is that these “creations of man” are equally mutilations of nature. The very existence of the machine involves the repression of countless avenues of potential for the materials of which the machine is made. These unrealized possibilities we have endeavored to capture by the enigmatic word “entropy,” and they have their revenge upon us in the form of the corrosion, corruption, fatigue, and degradation to which every machine eventually succumbs.

    The history of machine technics itself testifies to the increasing tendency to obliterate “the natural” from its special condition. The clunky, maiming, smoke-belching factories of yore have been replaced by quiet, clean spaces of impeccable safety. In the place of manually operated levers and pedals, we now have graphic interfaces of cartoonish simplicity that any child could control. Everything of importance has retreated into the mystical interior of the machine, and hardly anyone any longer knows or cares to know what goes on “inside” it. All that matters now is its capacity to generate ease and comfort and riches. The will to the technical mastery of the world-around has ebbed into a rather effeminate cargo cult. The ideal of “the future” as a sort of Disneyland of endless consumer convenience having reached its closest approximation to attainment, the inevitable denouement of machine industry is now in view.

    The imitations of non-Western peoples (e.g. Chinese, Japanese) notwithstanding, the spiritual source of the machine is only to be found in the West. And we Westerners having lost it lo these past several generations, there is nothing anyone can do to revivify it. We are now coasting on the momentum of many hard-won battles which we no longer possess the will to replicate. The advancement of machine industry requires the complete, self-sacrificing efforts of the whole crop of the very finest minds of each generation. But suppose those minds, instead of being drawn into the engineering tradition as a course of fulfillment, are increasingly overpowered by a sense of its futility? What if the deepest and sublimest intellects begin to find their soul’s health more important than the heaping up of technical accomplishments? At that point there is nothing that the masses or the captains of financial capital can do to keep the industry alive. The engineer, the high priest of the machine, has departed the temple and taken the fire of the gods with him.

    The next great cataclysm, the next great economic and military upheaval to engulf the world, whatever form it takes, will remove the upper layer of long-stiffened machine technics that has encrusted about Western civilization like the barnacles on an old pier. No doubt the materialist historians of a far future age will look back on the cataclysm itself as a destructive event which reversed “the advancements of civilization,” but really it was simply the elimination of the detritus of a destiny long since achieved. The machine-world, having exhausted its inner purpose, returns, as all things do, to the dust.

    • Replies: @Lurker
  57. @Truth

    In that case you might like Shadowfax.  I suggest “The Odd Get Even”.

    • Replies: @Truth
  58. The truth – if you can handle it – outer space aliens gifted all modern inventions to humanoids. Civilization is from outer space.
    Its a fact.
    Just watch the movie, Men In Black.

  59. Blindlight says: • Website

    Actually, Jewish money is behind the “progress”, not whites. Western Europe not further advanced till Jews flooded into Europe in 1500

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  60. @James Bowery

    Is there any serious controversy that those things you list are not egregious pseudoscience? How could he include them? Was that the gatekeeper’s toll to get the book published?

    So, when noting what you said as well as the 8 categories that are utterly irrelevant to all but specialists in obscure arcana, the takeaway is that the “98 percent of All Good Things were invented by white men” is likely a gross underestimate.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  61. StevenZ says:

    I think hatred of Whites is really hatred of Beta males. If White males who are not “Alpha” think they have something in common with some of the great names mentioned here, they will not be obedient slaves.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  62. L Woods says:
    @Playing Mantis

    Jazz is the most overrated degenerate dreck possibly ever. The reactionaries were right about it.

  63. @Playing Mantis

    ” Yowling of an angry cat”

    Myself a performing jazz musician, with classical training : four years in conservatory in Europe and an “Abschluss” in classical flute performance, I am really quite amazed by your ignorant and stupid remark regarding Jazz music, which from a compositional, and improvisational standpoint, can most definitely stand equal with the greatest of classical composers and works.

    You have no clue as to what you are blathering about, as you are simply not intellectually and artistically at the niveau necessary for the understanding of this wonderful music, which is loved the world over.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  64. Maybe this is a little unfair to the Japanese, whose Just-in-Time manufacturing was hugely important. And to some nonwhites in the West who came up with good ideas like jazz. Overall, though, the dominance of whites is just so hugely apparent that it’s in bad taste to talk about it.

    W. Edwards Deming had something to do with that.

  65. Gracebear says:
    @Playing Mantis

    I too dislike jazz and think it is ugly, except for some peppy and cheerful Dixieland jazz. It seems to me that American Jews have been very active and influential in promoting and pushing jazz into public acceptance and then studying it and writing about it. Is this another example of American Jews’ paternalistic “help” for blacks and their causes in the 20th century?

  66. The reason a college undergrad gets globally denounced for saying that white men invented the modern world is not because it’s false but because it’s so true.

    Granted, that’s not what Google tells you if you search on American inventors:

    An interesting graphic would show a series of world maps with the dates each nation had achieved 50% (or some other significant ratio)
    a) literacy
    b) indoor toilets
    c) electric lighting
    d) disdain for cannibalism

  67. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Great observations. In the US Jazz world they say : JS Bach was the first jazz musician, and ” Swinging” in itself most definitely can be traced to the triplett forward motion of Irish fiddle ditties.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

  68. @Playing Mantis

    What do you think about George Gershwin? As Trevor H. says, not everyone gets it. Unfortunately, there’s no statistical formula or evidential standard available to argue what is or isn’t a major aesthetic accomplishment — there’s no disputing taste. But make a case that any American art form birthed in the 20th century is of permanent value, and at least as strong a case can be made that jazz is equally so.

    There are also some interesting and objectively verifiable asides that strongly point to the seriousness of the form. One is that jazz piano is backwards compatible with classical. A highly competent jazz player would have little difficulty becoming a highly competent classical player, to an extent that most would probably find unbelievable, a matter of months at the higher end of the talent and focus spectrum.

    The reverse of that, a purely classical player attempting to become highly competent at jazz on short notice, is, on average, as probable as Michael Jordan having succeeded not at taking up professional baseball but chess.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Anonymous
  69. @Gracebear

    No, many great jazz musicians are themselves jews.

  70. @Mr. Rational

    Charlie Parker, representing the epitome of “Be-Bop” was without a doubt a music genius of the highest level, and Al De Meola most certainly is not a “white” player, rather he can “Bop” (go through Be-bop chords ) with the best of them.

    AJM

  71. baythoven says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    One of the variations in the last movement of Beethoven’s final piano sonata, Op. 111, is astonishingly jazzy. Much more so, in fact, than the Schumann section (I assume Rocking Horse) you are referring to.

  72. @Federalist

    Some of the greated early Jazz innovators were white, and models for the art itself : Bix, Tommy Dorsey, Artie Shaw, ( a true genius) Joe Venuti, Eddie lang, Frankie Trumbauer, Django, S Grapelli. The list Goes on and on.

    AJM

    • Replies: @Federalist
    , @Anonymous
  73. @War for Blair Mountain

    You haven’t really experienced Shakespeare until you’ve seen it performed in the original Hindustani.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  74. istevefan says:

    This is supposedly the twitter account of the Columbia student. He claims he is not backing down.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    , @Old Palo Altan
    , @Ed
  75. @Buck

    So when it comes to inventions which have touched our lives the most, Japanese management innovations were a late 20th century godsend.

    You are way, way, way overselling this.

    Continuous improvement is what every farmer–ok, every other farmer–has been doing for 10,000 years. Overstatement but the guys who would try to make stuff better–and tend to do better, get the prettier/more-fertile girl, have more kids, feed them better–that selection has been going on for eons.

    Capitalism–not “Japanese management innovations”–flat out forces this. It’s just that capitalist competition is imperfect and subject to all the usual human, cultural variables.

    The US auto industry by the late 60s, was stuck in an ossified oligopoly with contentious labor management relations and with product dependent on cheap gas–ripe for the picking. The Japanese had absolute labor price advantage, better labor cooperation (in large part cultural) and smaller cars. At the same time the computern revolution was driving both computerized machine tools allowing tighter tolerances and better computer-aided designs and then robotic manufactor. The Japanese–smart, well organized people (cue HBD)–and expanding so building new facilities, were in a great position to ride these trends. In short, the Japanese were in a great position to push into the US market not just on “quality” but on price and product.

    Note that the Germans also had a great reputation for quality, but also had expensive labor and thus were really not in a great position to compete on price and didn’t really bust into the US market in the same way. And witness the Koreans who were able to go from nowhere to a decent presence in the US market–not because anyone was wow’d by the quality of those Excels … but because they were cheap. Their labor way cheaper than US labor.

    ~~
    My take: You are ascribing to “Japanese management”, what is largely simply capitalism and two particular trends:

    1) The electronics/computer revolution which directly creates some products, but also aids tremendously in designing and producing better products.

    2) Maturing of demand for industrial products, as people become more prosperous. Generally less benefit from quantity, more from quality.

    When people can afford it, they want a car–mobility! For families, getting two cars is a big improvement on one. But then, there’s not much benefit unless a teenager is driving to school or a kid is taking a car off to college. Big dropoff in quanity demand. But having the car be better–more comfortable, safer, better handling, better sound quality … that’s useful.

    Housing, same story. People getting out of an apartment. Moving up from those 1500 sqft post war ranch houses to something bigger–great. Getting up to 3000-3500, maybe even 4000 sqft, there’s demand. But there’s no big demand for 6000 sqft. But the quality of the finishes–that’s been getting way better. And, of course, most of the focus and pricing revolves around the key variable–location. Being in a neighborhood with “good schools”.

    But then you have something like air travel. There people really have chosen “quantity”–i.e. price. People are flying way way more. Note the planes and especially the engines are way better. (What the GE guys–and others–have done pushing efficiency out of those turbines, is just kick ass first class engineering.) The experience is arguably better–but entirely because of one variable. The planes don’t crash. (Which really ruins a trip.) But in pretty much every other aspect the experience–the service–is actually worse. People–“the market”–has chosen not “quality”, but “price” and hence the ability to take more trips. (Or spend money elsewhere.)

    In short, what you’re calling “Japanese management” innovations, is just capitalism playing out in the context of both vastly improved electronics/computation technology and a maturing, prosperous less “quantity driven” consumer demand. The Japanese could flat out not exist and you’d be seeing the same improvements and trends you see today.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Reg Cæsar
  76. L Woods says:
    @istevefan

    I doubt Columbia will expel him. Academia may adhere imperfectly to its ideals of liberal free expression, but they still generally hold to them to some degree. It’s the mob and the rest of the power structure (including the strikingly craven and venal private sector) that are liable to make his post-graduation future difficult.

    • Replies: @Lowe
  77. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    The Rothchild family invented the modern banking system in the mid 18th century, without it, practically NONE of the other inventions of the industrial age would have happened because there was no profit in them.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @syonredux
  78. Madden says:

    But the fact that a man invented Post-It Notes is not interesting—because we all know that men invent more or less everything.

    Wrong, Steve:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/dec/12/female-scholars-are-marginalised-on-wikipedia-because-its-written-by-men

  79. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    That’s the problem with Murray’s method. It ranks someone like Euclid below several figures. Setting aside the question of whether or not Euclid actually developed the method and content of his writings or was merely a compiler, obviously someone like Euclid who developed and presented formal math first is more important than the likes of Euler and Newton who applied and pursued the method further.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @utu
  80. Dan Smith says:

    Janet Emerson Bashen is an American inventor, entrepreneur, and business consultant. She patented a software program, LinkLIne, to assist with web-based Equal Employment Opportunity investigations.
    Come on Steve, surely you recognize Janet’s achievements to be equal those of Thomas Edison!

  81. tyrone says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Remember now tiny you must always take your medication as prescribed…….self medicate is bad,bad tiny!

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  82. El Dato says:
    @Gracebear

    I dunno man.

    Jews and Jazz?

    I just dunno.

  83. El Dato says:
    @Anonym

    I suspect this was all a consequence of the demand of ultra-productivity of WWII.

    ISO 9000 quality control traces its lineage directly to the effort to make sure bombs did not go off in the factory but only once jettisoned out of planes.

    Same as operations research, logistics, and various optimization techniques (“how to drop grenades into the water so that the U-Boat is crushed with highest probability”).

    Not to mention cybernetics and command & control principles. Norbert Wiener is considered “the father of cybernetics” but he basically just published all that gathered during his work in top secret labs during WWII, a lot which had been stewing in industry and academia for 20 years prior.

  84. El Dato says:
    @syonredux

    In general, the Arabs were important in preserving Greek mathematics and scholarship during the period when the West was not interested in this stuff

    Disputed! There is another take that says Arabs didn’t give back all that much (because nobody in Europe could read Arab texts even if they had had the possibility to get ahold of some), instead it was monasteries that kept the knowledge of Ancient Greek alive and also proceeded to translate classical works into the local language. Or something like that.

    And what is this index? No James Clerk Maxwell?

    And what about Engineering? James Watt, Isambard Kingdom Brunel, Monsieur Jacquard etc.

  85. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    In which piece out of “Kinderszenen” is this?

  86. @Tiny Duck

    That’s the stuff, TD. Now you’re back on track lampooning more extreme versions of standard SJW thinking. (Although, if it had been I preparing this material, I would have thrown in a reference to Wakanda, as if I believed it was a historical reality!)

    Stay away from your past few attempts to lampoon post-modernism. Those fell very flat indeed.

  87. @Fred Boynton

    Peanut butter sounds like something a white Seventh Day Adventist would have invented.

  88. @Pat Boyle

    Pat, when you pick up a book that is 900 pages long, check to see if there are illustrations. Lots of illustrations.

  89. @Jack D

    Of the scholars who preserved Greek scholarship and who are credited as being Arab, were some/many of them really Persian? How many were Arabic speakers due to the spread of the language by Islam but were not ethnically Arab in any meaningful way? It seems that the Arabs generally get too much credit, but I could be wrong.

  90. sayless says:
    @Playing Mantis

    Thank you Playing Mantis. Jazz affects me like a neurotoxin. I’d rather hear Muzak.

  91. Altai says:
    @Playing Mantis

    Even Adorno called it ‘Jungle music’.

    Having said that, it is now precisely most appreciated by modern Adornos and not very much by modern young black people.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  92. “nonwhites in the West who came up with good ideas like jazz.”

    One cannot help but notice that the instruments on which it is played are largely inventions of white males. Amelia Earhart proved that women can be taught to fly; but only after men invented airplanes.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  93. @Playing Mantis

    I was never a fan (first exposure was to 1950s ‘trad’), but over the years I found there was a lot more to it. Aren’t you thinking of free jazz or bebop (a lot of virtuoso squeaking and twiddling, can’t dance to it)?

    20s hot dance music is great, so is 30s/40s swing/big band, jump jazz like Louis Jordan/Cab Calloway.

    But jazz is best IMHO when improvised. If this isn’t jazz, what is it?

  94. @Buffalo Joe

    I made it about one-third through Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire before the lack of any illustrations to provide geographic or architectural context defeated me.

  95. @Tiny Duck

    But we are proud of doing the likes of you down.

    And once we wake up from this nightmare we’ll be doing a whole lot more of it.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  96. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Jack D

    This doesn’t work, you end up with about ten once-crucial museum pieces on one side and a mountain of things everybody is familiar with on the other. There is no reasonable way to deny the benefit or importance of the white male inventor. Subtract every argued nonwhite and you’re left with freaking Scotland.

  97. @istevefan

    God bless and protect him.

    I wonder if he is perhaps the grandson of Rudolph von Abele, who taught at Columbia and wrote a biography of the vice-president of the Confederacy?

    In any case it delights me that he is not only white, but an actual aristocrat (there are four distinct “von Abele” families, from one of which he presumably descends).

    This will vex the Leftists no end.

  98. Just in time was invented by Deming, an American. It was adopted by Toyota after Deming became their consultant.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  99. anon[232] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Look at a 30 year yen/usd chart, Occam’s Butterknife.

  100. Ed says:

    Has the kid been kicked out of Columbia on some trumped up violation yet?

    What’s funny is that not only is he correct but unlike other groups whites aren’t allowed to express pride for their ancestors accomplishments. Instead blacks can claim they built the pyramids, which is a lie.

  101. Ed says:
    @istevefan

    I read a story where he claims he’s not racist so he has backed down a bit.

  102. @Mr. Rational

    You’re thinking bebop and the like, which is probably the “blackest” variety of jazz (I can’t stand it either). For something much whiter try Al Dimeola or The Rippingtons.

    For whiteness, you can’t beat Dave Brubeck. The part-Modoc Brubeck was lavishly praised by the half-white Barack Obama, in one of the latter’s whiter moments.

    http://www.davebrubeckjazz.com/Bio-/Kennedy-Center-Honor/At-the-White-House

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @PiltdownMan
  103. Granted, that’s not what Google tells you if you search on American inventors:

    Perhaps they should rename it “Niggle”.

    Or “Analphabet”.

  104. Tlotsi says:
    @Mr. Rational

    I’ve heard that Rippington tune when on hold. It really is elevator music.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  105. @Lucius Somesuch

    To be fair, both Heathcliff and big sister’s Mr. Rochester owe a lot to Byron, who owed a lot to Milton, who owed a lot to the Vices in medieval plays, so I think dead white European males can still take much of the credit, or blame, on this point.

  106. Actually just in time manufacturing is also western idea. The Japanese learned how to do it by reading “Synchronized Manufacturing” by none other than Henry Ford

  107. @Charlesz Martel

    Not exactly.

    W. Edwards Deming was the father of statistical quality control methods for manufacturing known as total quality management or TQM. Deming’s great contribution to the Japanese manufacturing industry happened in the 1950s and 1960s, and transformed the reputation of Japanese products from being a byword for tinny junk to a synonym for reliable quality.

    It helped that the Japanese already had a craft manufacturing culture that was quality obsessed, but Deming’s sophisticated methods allowed Japanese managers to bring that ethos into mass manufacturing in Japan, which, by then, was almost 100 years old.

    As the old joke in my business school days went, an American importer tells the marketing manager of a Japanese company that he will accept nothing more than a 1% defect rate in the television sets delivered.

    The Japanese guy says “So. Do you want the defective set shipped separately?”

    By contrast, just-in-time manufacturing was developed largely at Toyota Motor Company by Taiichi Ohno in the 1960s and early 1970s.

    Mass production parts inventory techniques until then used the algorithms developed in the first decades of the 20th century by Harris, Wilson and Andler known as EOQ (economic order quantity).

    Ohno’s methods caused a sensation among production management professors in business schools in America when I was a student, because it upended a whole lot of sophisticated mathematical theories and economics conventional wisdom about how the production chain works.

  108. @Playing Mantis

    Is a widespread dislike for cerebral jazz a generational transition thing that we’re experiencing, the way a lot of people under 40 don’t relate to black and white photographs?

    I wonder if it is because of the changes in the way we listen to music. Was bebop easier to listen to on the living room stereos of the mid-20th century rather than on headphones, via today’s Spotify playlists?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  109. @Reg Cæsar

    <smacks forehead>  How did I EVER forget Dave Brubeck?

    Got to see him play just once.  He was dead within a couple years.  Great performance.

  110. Jabbey says:

    When it comes to quality in home building, there are a lot of mexicans that are terrible.

    There used to be a lot of white professional carpenters and other trades in home building and they did excellent work and were paid well. The mexies came along and worked for nothing an did horrible work and ruined the home building industry. One guy I work with was having a home built and they did damn near everthing over twice or 3 times.

    Right now where I live the word is getting around that people should not buy new homes because they are so crappy-but still expensive. Its better to buy an older home thats been maintained.

    • Agree: TWS
  111. @Tyler Kent

    You think that’s bad, you should see the over-weening pride of Blacks who’ve been successfully taught to fly.  They practically think they invented the airplane themselves.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  112. @syonredux

    I think his Boss was a little more important, though Paul was a great PR man.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  113. @Federalist

    Syrians preserved most of the medical stuff,iirc.

  114. Just watched a video of a youth orchestra (Orquestra Joven de la Sinfonica de Galicia) play Ravel’s Bolero. Maybe white men didn’t invent the Modern World, but they sure as hell refined it. And, if you take the time to watch the video (sorry too dumb to link) note how many different instruments make up a philharmonic orchestra. Wonder where those came from?

  115. inertial says:

    Most important thing invented by white men was best weapons in the world (for the time.) China could’ve contributed a few ideas to the modern world. Even Maya or Incas might have, if you gave them time. But they lost a few wars to white men and so got no chance.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @syonredux
  116. @baythoven

    There’s a Chopin etude than sounds like something Hoagy Carmichael would have doodled out on the piano. Unfortunately, I can’t remember which.

    • Replies: @baythoven
  117. @Negrolphin Pool

    My father-in-law was a professional classical and jazz tuba player. He could improvise jazz tuba solos, not that there is a high demand for those.

  118. syonredux says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    I think his Boss was a little more important, though Paul was a great PR man.

    Paul wrote stuff down.

  119. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    The Rothchild family invented the modern banking system in the mid 18th century, without it, practically NONE of the other inventions of the industrial age would have happened because there was no profit in them.

    Mid 18th century, eh? Quite a feat, seeing as how Mayer Amschel Rothschild was born in 1744…

    • Replies: @Truth
  120. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    That’s the problem with Murray’s method. It ranks someone like Euclid below several figures. Setting aside the question of whether or not Euclid actually developed the method and content of his writings or was merely a compiler, obviously someone like Euclid who developed and presented formal math first is more important than the likes of Euler and Newton who applied and pursued the method further.

    Once a certain level of eminence is reached, arguing relative ranking becomes something of a parlor game.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  121. Anonymous[740] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    Was it ancient European? Iranians believe that much of the ancient wisdom of the Greeks was stolen from their ancestors by Alexander. And the Babylonians and Egyptians were technologically advanced before either the Greeks or Persians.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  122. Did White men invent the modern world?

    Why, yes. Yes they did. And the correct way to spell “cat” is: C-A-T.

    As an aside, I see there is someone posting here who calls himself Truth. Apparently this individual does not understand that it is considered supremely bad manners to pour your own sake. You don’t get to call yourself Dragonslayer; somebody else cleps you that, but only after they see you slay a dragon.

    If Truth finally gets round to saying something actually true, other guests will be sure to let him know.

  123. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Blindlight

    I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not, but there are serious scholars who argue along these lines. Werner Sombart made this argument in The Jews and Modern Capitalism. More recently, the historian Jonathan Israel has made similar arguments.

    • Replies: @Blindlight
  124. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    Was it ancient European? Iranians believe that much of the ancient wisdom of the Greeks was stolen from their ancestors by Alexander.

    I’m guessing that Alexander stole time machine tech from the Persians? You know, seeing as how people like Plato, Aristotle, Eudoxus, and Thucydides, were all active prior to big Al’s conquests….

    And the Babylonians and Egyptians were technologically advanced before either the Greeks or Persians.

    I’m more than happy to compare the glory that was Greece to the achievements of the ancient Egyptians and Babylonians…

  125. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Playing Mantis

    The soundtrack to the Charlie Brown Christmas special was jazz.

    Very hard to dislike this music.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Reg Cæsar
  126. You bozos actually want to take credit for this shithole you call “modern”? Really?

    Yeah, “The Modern World.” Otherwise known as “Car Storage Facility.”

    You won’t get that one. Because you think you are smart and I am not–because you don’t get my references. That makes you smart. Not getting my references. Yup.

    And just incidentally, “Just-in-time” inventory sucks. All it means is they are always out of it whenever you go to get it.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  127. @baythoven

    Yes, I already linked that (Op. 32, no. 111).  Here’s that section again:

  128. @Tlotsi

    I’ve heard much worse so-called music when stuck on hold.  What’s even worse is when it fades out and repeats after 15 seconds or so.

  129. @inertial

    China could’ve contributed a few ideas to the modern world. Even Maya or Incas might have, if you gave them time. But they lost a few wars to white men and so got no chance.

    You mean “they dropped the ball and lost out to those who came in firstest with the mostest.”

  130. @syonredux

    That’s one thing my new Taki’s column is about: people get obsessed over Who’s Number One arguments and overlook the usefulness of a large sample size of examples, like Murray’s 4002 eminent individuals in the arts and sciences.

  131. @lavoisier

    Vince Guaraldi was a national treasure indeed.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  132. Antonius says:
    @Playing Mantis

    Liking Jazz is akin to virtue signaling; rather like Hillary Clintons hot sauce in her bag.

  133. @fish

    These days you have to put at least half the blame on Fiat.

    • Replies: @fish
  134. @Authenticjazzman

    These may have been great innovators, but they weren’t really the earliest originators of Jazz. The original point in the thread was that the origins of Jazz are “pretty white.” The origins of Jazz are mostly not white.

    • Disagree: Mr. Rational
  135. @Buffalo Joe

    It’s not unreasonable to want maps and pictures in “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire,” and there are no doubt many out of copyright editions of Gibbon that have just that so that new editions could culturally appropriate them for free.

  136. @Reg Cæsar

    Bill Evans, Art Pepper and Chet Baker from that era were white jazz musicians equally worthy of mention. Probably Stan Getz, too.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  137. @Federalist

    I remember reading, at the time of Ayatollah Khomeini’s Iranian revolution, that the students in the Shiite seminaries of Qom and other places in Iran were required to study Aristotle and other classical works from Greek antiquity.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  138. As to the question, Did White men invent the modern world?, here is a reasonable heuristic…

    If White men did NOT invent the modern world, then why is it that, when the Modern World suddenly showed up unannounced on the doorsteps of the Chinese, the Japanese, the Hindus, the Muslims, the Bantus, the Incas and the Aztecs, they all acted so utterly goddamn surprised?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  139. L Woods says:
    @StevenZ

    Crudely put, but basically correct. Low status whites are collectively guilty for their ancestors’ supposed sins, but are not permitted to take collective credit for their indubitably titanic achievements. That’s the game.

  140. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    1744 is the mid 18th century, and Rothchild’s father was a currency exchanger. The banking system existed already, but specifically wrote the MODERN banking system.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  141. Truth says:
    @Mr. Rational

    My 74-year old Mom cajoled me to take her to a Yanni concert last summer Dawg. I would have to admit the musicianship was quite impressive; although I don’t think I’d be listening to it in the car.

  142. syonredux says:
    @inertial

    Most important thing invented by white men was best weapons in the world (for the time.)

    Dunno.More important than calculus? the theory of natural selection? the steam engine? the aeroplane? information theory? the transistor? the automobile?

    • Replies: @inertial
  143. @obwandiyag

    Yeah, “The Modern World.” Otherwise known as “Car Storage Facility.”

    You won’t get that one. Because you think you are smart and I am not–because you don’t get my references.

    Not being able to communicate your meaning PROVES you are not smart, Ol’ Windy Bag.

  144. Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Actually, I think Tiny duck IS Sailer. He would be getting a big jolly out of the impersonation. If the stuff were ral, there’s no way he could permit such perfect drivel to go live.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  145. inertial says:
    @syonredux

    Absolutely more important. It’s sine qua non; all the other things that you list would’ve been irrelevant without weapons.

    For example, Mesoamericans invented a pretty good calendar but we are not using it. Instead we use an essentially Roman calendar. Why? Because the Romans invented legions and their descendants invented galleons.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  146. Corvinus says:

    “The reason a college undergrad gets globally denounced for saying that white men invented the modern world is not because it’s false but because it’s so true.”

    “White inventions” or “western science”, while noteworthy in their original ideas and innovations, of course owe much to gunpowder, paper, the compass, and movable type (Chinese), to the number 0 (India), and to the idea of a rule-based, law-giving universal Creator (Middle East).

    The rise of white people to jackbooting status, I mean bearers of civilization, was built on these discoveries.

    Bear in mind that there are few inventions that are “purely” white. Take this comment for example. It depends on the Internet and computers – “white inventions”. But it also depends on the alphabet, a Phoenician invention, and the idea of writing itself, which in the West comes from Egypt. At any point in history, most inventions will come from one part of the world because it is the most advanced at that particular time. So while most important inventions of the past few hundred years were made by white people, that is only because they have been on top during that time frame. The Egyptians and the Chinese had a far longer reign compared to Europeans when it came to technological advancements.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Moses
  147. Corvinus says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “If White men did NOT invent the modern world, then why is it that, when the Modern World suddenly showed up unannounced on the doorsteps of the Chinese, the Japanese, the Hindus, the Muslims, the Bantus, the Incas and the Aztecs, they all acted so utterly goddamn surprised?”

    You mean white people AND these groups acted surprised upon their first encounters. They had been isolated and insulated. Each built up their own unique civilizations. Of course, without Chinese gunpowder, Muzzie math, and Incan gold, where would Europeans be today?

  148. It’s mildly interesting that a woman invented Liquid Paper whiteout fluid (namely, Bette Nesmith Graham, a secretary and the mother of Mike Nesmith of The Monkees)

    I did not know that. I’ll be a Monkee’s uncle mother!

  149. Corvinus says:
    @Jack D

    Gold box for your comment.

  150. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Action speaks louder than words. If a man says A but does B, he should be judged by B.

    If we judge the whole world by their actions, they all believe whites are special. They all use white-made technology. They use engines, autos, airplanes, and air conditioners. They all use soap and tooth paste. They all rely on Western medicine. They wear Western clothes. They use western energy technology. Even when blacks dominate in certain areas(like sports), it’s in white-made sports like basketball and football. Blacks got more muscle but not the brains to come up with such rule-bound sports.

    And all the world want to move to white-majority or white-made nations. In terms of what they DO(as opposed to what they SAY), they all believe whites are the best.

    In truth, diversity is not the end-goal but the end-result of flight-to-white by non-whites. To illustrate this, suppose there is an all-white nation and a very diverse nation(where whites are either non-existent or a tiny minority). Now, if diversity is so wonderful, all prospective immigrants should want to move to the Diverse nation. But of course, they will all try to move to the homogeneous white nations. But if diversity is so great, why not move to the diverse nation? If diversity is so very super, all would-be immigrants should head to nations like India, Pakistan, North Africa, Venezuela, or Peru. But they all try to move to white nations, and whiter the better.

    So, what is called Diversity is the result of non-white preference for white.

    Suppose there is a white nation, yellow nation, brown nation, black nation, purple nation, pink nation, green nation, and etc. I guarantee that yellows will prefer whites over yellows(or any other color), browns will prefer whites over browns(or any other color), blacks will prefer whites over blacks(or any other color), purples will prefer whites over purples(or any other color), and etc.
    So, they will all head to the white nation if given a chance, and the resulting diversity will be the product of non-white preference for whites(over non-whites, indeed even over their own kind; Asians prefer to live in white nations than in their yellow ones, black Africans prefer to live in white nation than in their black ones). If Diversity is the goal of humanity, people in hyper-diverse Latin America should stay put. But they run from diversity to whiter nations. That gives the game away. Diversity is not the preferred destination. Whiteness is. Non-whites want to move to white places. Diversity is the end-product of non-white preference for white.

    If a host animal attracts a diverse variety of parasites, are the parasites attracted to diversity? No, the various kinds of parasites just want to leech off the host. The only reason why there is a diversity of parasites on the host is because all parasites(of whatever color) want some easy blood to suck on. Fleas don’t seek out dogs to be with ticks and mites. Fleas just want to suck on dog blood. Same with ticks and mites. The only reason such diverse parasites are on the dog is because they all want the same thing: dog blood. And non-whites of all color want to leech off whites.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Lurker
    , @Moses
  151. Maybe this is a little unfair to the Japanese, whose Just-in-Time manufacturing was hugely important

    JIT is fragile. It works in fair weather. Otherwise, it fails.

  152. @Corvinus

    Muzzie math

    Bwah hah hah! Because “algebra” right? Please. Give the Indians their due, sapper.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  153. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    1744 is the mid 18th century,

    So Mayer Amschel Rothschild was a big wheel in banking circles at the age of, say, six? Talk about precocity!

    and Rothchild’s father was a currency exchanger. The banking system existed already, but specifically wrote the MODERN banking system.

    So you’re saying that Amschel Moses Rothschild founded the modern banking system:

    Rothschild had a small shop, according to a 1749 tax register his assets amounted to the modest sum of 1,375 guilders. He married Schönche Lechnich (died 29 June 1756).[2] They had eight children, of whom five survived into adulthood. Rothschild’s sons attended the Frankfurt cheder, notably the fourth son, Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744–1812), was sent to the yeshiva in Fürth but had to abandon his studies upon the early death of his parents. He went on to be the founder of the Rothschild international banking dynasty.

    Amschel Moses Rothschild died in a smallpox epidemic in the Frankfurt ghetto in 1755.[3] He was buried in the Frankfurt Battonnstraße cemetery.

    Dear boy, I would suggest confining yourself to sniffing out trannies. That seems to be more your speed….

    • Replies: @Truth
  154. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    At any point in history, most inventions will come from one part of the world because it is the most advanced at that particular time.

    Bit cart before the horse, dear boy. The West became the most advanced part of the world because of those inventions…..

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  155. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    You mean white people AND these groups acted surprised upon their first encounters. They had been isolated and insulated. Each built up their own unique civilizations. Of course, without Chinese gunpowder, Muzzie math,

    Bit contradictory there….

    and Incan gold, where would Europeans be today?

    Sans Inca gold? Pretty much where we are now.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  156. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    A really first rate jazz pianist with good sight reading skills can quickly become a fairly good classical pianist, (and many are already) but never one of international concert stature. “Fairly good” is still pretty impressive: but the chasm between fairly good and Van Cliburn is enormous. Top concert classical musicians always combine immense biological talent and unceasing constant training starting young, but below that, all but the finest symphony orchestras have a lot of people whose competence is achievable in a few years even by adult beginners if they have some talent and first rate instruction. I know a cellist in a fairly big Midwest orchestra who never touched a bowed string instrument until he was already a Navy veteran (he’d been a bluegrass musician-guitar, banjo, dobro, but not fiddle or bass) who’d auditioned for but was not selected by the Navy bluegrass band and went to conservatory on the military’s dime). He admits he’d never get a seat on the NY Phil, but he makes a living at classical music, which was his goal.)

    Most classical musicians are not very good at the basics of what jazz players do, improvisation and comping, but could function in a big band environment where everything is written out. I believe many consider Glenn Miller’s best recordings ones where he had military musicians most of which came out of orchestras.

    The kind of people attracted to the jazz world and the kind of people attracted to the classical world do tend to be different on a lot of levels. I knew Karrin Allyson and Bill McGlaughlin (a little) from their Kansas City days and though Allyson’s academic work was in the classical field she left that pretty early on. Watching the two of them was a lot of fun.

  157. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Judged as music, some jazz music is really good, some is mediocre, and some is really terrible; and some of it isn’t music at all.

    Classical music before 1900, and much before 1950, but little after, is mostly at least pretty good, but that is largely because the poor stuff has been filtered out by time. The crummy pieces have died out. So have many good ones as well, of course.

    Consider the Russian classical / parlor guitar tradition, for example:

    This instrument looks like a guitar. Actually, it is a guitar. But there are some differences between this instrument and the one you all play. There are seven strings, and they are tuned in an open chord of G Major, D, G, b, d, b, g, d’. It is not my intention to claim any advantage or superiority for this tuning, but simply to show the difference in sonority, and in the way Russian seven-string guitarists employ the particular attributes of their instrument.

    Now let us look at the history. In December of 1492, Christopher Columbus landed on the island of Quiskeya and promptly renamed it La Isla Española. Now divided between Haiti and the Dominican republic. Columbus was welcomed to the New World by a group of natives that called themselves the Taino. To Columbus’ Christian eyes, the Taino people looked strange. They were much smaller than the Spaniards, they were brown skinned and they were naked. They also could not speak any European language and theynever heard of Jesus Christ. History records that in trying to convert the Taino to Christianity, Columbus set up a cultural upheaval that ended up with Taino almost entirely wiped out.

    A similar cataclysm occurred again in the expedition of another Spanish explorer almost half a millennium later.

    On his first visit to the Soviet Union in 1926, Andrés Segovia found himself surrounded by strange guitarists. They played a guitar which had seven strings and was tuned differently than his guitar. While they have heard the names of Sor and Giuliani, and even played their music on this odd-ball instrument, they hardly ever heard the names of Tárrega and Llobet. That was not acceptable to Segovia and he immediately set to convert the Russians to the six-string Spanish guitar. History will record that he was eminently successful in his proselytizing campaign. But as it happened with Columbus before him, Segovia set in motion a process which resulted in the almost total annihilation of a culture which had survived by that time for nearly two hundred years. The Russian seven-string guitar is now as scarce as the Taino Indians of the Caribbean. Today, there are a few seven-string players here and there in Russia, but for the most part, as we have seen from the participation of Russian guitarists in GFA competitions over the years, they play the same instrument as you do, and with few exceptions, they play the same repertoire. In various publications and lectures I have given over the past 28 years, I concentrated my historical analysis of the Russian seven- string guitar on understanding the organological roots for its emergence. The discussion dealt with the inevitable encounter in Russia during the last decades of the eighteenth century between Italian and French guitarists playing the five string guitar tuned in fourths, and German and Czech guitarists playing several variants of the English guitar, a six or seven course instrument tuned in thirds.

    On the French-Italian side we see people like Giuseppe Sarti, Carlo Cannobio and Jean-Baptiste Hainglaise quickly establishing themselves in Russia. On the German-English side we have
    Ignac von Held (1766-1816?), a Bohemian musician who was known as a virtuoso on the English guitar. The Russian themselves began publishing music for the Russian guitar, an instrument mounted with seven strings and tuned in a straight G Major chord. The names of Lvov, Kamensky and eventually Sychra, quickly come to mind. In this lecture today, the emphasis will be on the relationship, both personal and musical, between players of the six-string guitar which the Russians refer to as shestistruniki, sixers for short, and playersof the seven-string guitar, semistruniki in Russian, and which I refer to as seveners.

    From A Brief History of The Russian Seven-String Guitar
    Matanya Ophee , 2011

  158. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    Actually, I think Tiny duck IS Sailer. He would be getting a big jolly out of the impersonation. If the stuff were ral, there’s no way he could permit such perfect drivel to go live.

    Even if Steve isn’t the author (and I tend to doubt that he is), Tiny Duck is an obvious parody account…..Perhaps a bit too broad at times, but still capable of raising a chuckle….

    • Replies: @Lurker
  159. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    JIT is fragile. It works in fair weather. Otherwise, it fails.

    It works well in Japan because Japan is small, tightly packed and has a highly cooperative society, and Japanese real estate is at an extreme premium. It works poorly in the US unless very high volumes are being produced and intricate measures taken to make for reliable transportation. Since a plant can much more easily warehouse parts in the US, the necessity for it is greatly reduced.

  160. Lowe says:
    @tanabear

    This is a gross falsehood, frankly. The ancient people of the Middle East were not what anyone would call white. Neither were the Chinese.

    • Replies: @tanabear
  161. Lowe says:
    @L Woods

    He’s foolish for making a Twitter, assuming that is really his account. What is the point of drawing more attention to himself? Do his parent have nothing to say about this?

  162. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonym

    Deming is a demigod in Japan, one reason Restrum Erectric audio gear is worshipped like a Shinto penis shrine there.

    But he was ignored in the US because his methods worked better in the context of the Bell System/Western Electric captive monopoly market they had for telco gear, than in the general flow of US consumer and business product manufacturing.

    Before 1984, the phone company legally owned everything from the telephone set on your wall or table to all the wiring, jacks, etc. in the house to the local wiring, punchdown blocks, the pedestal or B-box or multiple, out to the trunk cabling, the central office, everything. You owned nothing.

    While there were (and still are) 200+ phone companies, most all profitable ones (as of say 1930-1940 ,which is why Las Vegas is CenturyLink territory now) were serviced by the Bell System. The Bell System bought only WE equipment. GTE bought Automatic Electric, some small telcos Stromberg-Carlson, et al, but essentially WE had all the profitable phone business. The local Bells owned the phones, and replaced them and maintained them at a fixed monthly fee to the customer. So if it broke, the phone cost the price of a truck roll plus a new phone. WE phones therefore didn’t often break. In a time when you could buy an All American 5 radio retail for $9.99 and music stores paid $200 for a new Fender Stratocaster, a basic WE 500 black plastic phone had a build cost of something like forty bucks.

    You can buy a phone now for ten bucks retail, but it won’t last a year. Old WE phones will generally go a century of continuous use. I’m guessing that the WE 500 desk set built to 100 percent authentic standards would cost several hundred dollars retail today.

    I think Panavision is the only business in the US that works on anything like that model now and their gear is equally legendary.

    Sound equipment for film-ERPI- was one of many businesses WE pioneered, like Machlett, Graybar, et al, then spun off as it was orthogonal to the selling of telephone equipment. Nevertheless, you could sometimes buy WE phones, tools, cabling, punchdown blocks, et al through Graybar on the idea it was for use in a private branch exchange in a business or institution. Such sets were distinctively marked, as regular WE stuff all said BELL SYSTEM PROPERTY NOT FOR SALE.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    , @Jack D
    , @JMcG
  163. sj says:
    @Clive Beaconsfield

    I read Murray’s book. He made an extensive effort to combat West-centrism.

  164. Lurker says:
    @syonredux

    I just wish he would go and do it elsewhere.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  165. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Django was a gypsy, I don’t consider gypsies white and moreover they don’t consider themselves white either.

    There is to this day a huge (in Europe) school, if you will, of “Gypsy Jazz” musicians modeling themselves after Django and his Quintette du Hot Club de France. many non-gypsies are enamored of their music, famously including Willie Nelson, but I never saw the intensity of the appeal.

    Gypsies tend to be ferociously musically talented but are invariably unable to read music or much of anything else-most are as illiterate as a dromedary, although a few have say first or second grade reading skills, the rate of severe dyslexia is very , very high, indeed nearly universal amongst Gypsies.
    many have managed to graduate from music schools despite inability to read music because they would surreptitiously sneak one listen to a piece and could play it perfectly after that forever, fooling the teachers. (One reason I am somewhat convinced Buddy Rich was part Gypsy. The bus tapes also provide insight into this:he’s pissed off in a certain Gypsy way, more than a Jew way. Seinfeld picked up on this, but isn’t going to explain it in public. )

    NEVER let a gypsy into your rock, country, or jazz/casuals/society band despite the fact many look the part and can play their ass off. One, they will likely F you financially and two, they will covertly sabotage any efforts you make to get beyond the local weekend warrior/cover band status. They do not want the scrutiny being a star would cause, and they prefer their own way of getting money, p***y and adulation to the gajo way, so when gear vanishes, promoters get blown off or deliberately pissed off, mail vanishes, et al, at critical times….I have seen these people actually do this and the dumb gajo rockers would get pissed at me for insulting their dusky pal by tipping them off as to what I saw.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  166. Truth says:
    @syonredux

    Simple math lesson here, Old Sport. 1744 is the mid-18th century. So is 1757 when he started his banking apprenticeship. And yes white people did things young back then. And as I would define “mid 18th century as say, a period somewhere between 1725 and 1775, I would have to say that I was, basically, correct.

    And yes, I am quite good at “sniffing out trannies” as you put it; and judging by the dudes you spend your time lusting after on this site… you aren’t.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
  167. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    Newton did not understand Euclid mathematical rigor and structure which shows in messiness of Newton’s “proofs” where it is sometimes hard to discern whether he is trying to show that p–>q or q–>p.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  168. Lurker says:
    @Anon

    One qualification – non-whites show a clear preference for living in white nations but once ensconced they show a tendency to live among their own.

    (They want to to live in the sort of society created and administered by whites by on their own terms. A contradiction that will collapse once there are too many of them for it to remain a white-run society, this will apply first at a local level)

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @JMcG
  169. @Mr. Rational

    Ludwig von Beethoven originated ragtime around 1825, 4 decades before Scott Joplin was born:

    Don’t forget about Iowa’s Meredith Willson coming up with hip hop– for both sexes, no less:

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  170. @AnotherDad

    The Japanese had absolute labor price advantage…

    Yeah, but until when? Japanese labor cost more than you think, what with lifetime employment and other hidden overhead. Also, other than the luxury marques of the major auto manufacturers, what Japanese firms still make America-bound products in Japan? It’s all “made in China”, except for mainstream autos in places like Alabama and Tennessee.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  171. @Clive Beaconsfield

    Murray’s ranking system always made more sense for evaluating contributions in science and technology than it did for the arts, which are far more nebulous and subjective to evaluate.

    That Picasso is considered an artist rather than a cartoonist on controlled substances is proof of that.

  172. syonredux says:
    @Clive Beaconsfield

    I don’t think the artistic output of all cultures is of equal interest, but Murray’s attempt to quantify it was shallow and silly.

    Dunno. He admitted that ranking artistic achievement is a tougher job than ranking important work in STEM, and he did did his best to remove his own biases. All things considered, I think that he did a pretty good job.

  173. syonredux says:
    @utu

    And yet somehow Newton wrote the Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica…..

  174. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Simple math lesson here, Old Sport. 1744 is the mid-18th century. So is 1757 when he started his banking apprenticeship. And yes white people did things young back then. And as I would define “mid 18th century as say, a period somewhere between 1725 and 1775, I would have to say that I was, basically, correct.

    So, by your reckoning, Mayer Amschel Rothschild was a big deal in banking by 1757…when he was 12-13…..Again, what precocity!…

    And yes, I am quite good at “sniffing out trannies” as you put it

  175. syonredux says:
    @Truth

    Simple math lesson here, Old Sport. 1744 is the mid-18th century. So is 1757 when he started his banking apprenticeship. And yes white people did things young back then. And as I would define “mid 18th century as say, a period somewhere between 1725 and 1775, I would have to say that I was, basically, correct.

    Dear boy, I’ve enjoyed making fun of you….but one should not over-indulge in cruelty…..The sad fact is that the Rothschild fortune is really a post 1775 phenomenon….with the big money arriving during the French Revolutionary-Napoleonic epoch….

    Chin up, though. Perhaps you can prove that they were all trannies……

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @fish
  176. jordan says:
    @Ibound1

    “racism, colonialism, sexism, fascism, homophobia, harassment, the Confederacy, red-lining, inequality, the horrible unrepresentative Senate and Supreme Court etc., you bet white men made this world.”

    Everyone of those things under western society and everyone else in history, Was Murderous as hell, But it was western ideals that made most of them largely insignificant in the modern world. Racism back then was killing and enslaving, in a America today Racism is 95%words. Gay people aren’t killed by the government en masse, the Confederacy doesn’t exist anymore. It’s the best time to be alive by far.

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  177. Anonymous[331] • Disclaimer says:

    Unfortunately it’s no longer possible to have a reasoned argument over who-contributed-what to modern industrial urban civilisation because the matter has become entangled with the immigration issue.

    If you concede that (say) Muslims did good things in science and technology, the leftists immediately shout GOTCHA! and declare that you must now support Afghanistan and Somalia dumping their surplus population problem in your hometown.

    There’s similar problem with discussion of global warming. Concede that it’s happening and again leftists go GOTCHA! and demand that you pay trillions of dollars to the countries affected by it.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  178. @Playing Mantis

    Jazz, like the Blues, was invented so white folks could claim to know how black folks feel without actually having to meet any of them.

    Did white men invent the modern world? Pretty much up to 2009, but it was already well on the way to being culturally appropriated away from us well before then.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  179. @Anonymous

    Old WE phones will generally go a century of continuous use.

    I have a Western Electric 2220 princess phone set that I’ve kept since the late 1970s, and use it for my landline connection in my living room. It looks, operates and feels like it did the day Western Electric installed it. It’s something of a conversation piece with visitors under 40. Of course, it still belongs to WE, or its successor, but I somehow forgot to return it, and they’ve never called to ask for it back.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  180. AndrewR says:

    This debate in a nutshell:

    “wypipo r da best”

    “No, dey da worst”

    “Nuh uh”

    “Yuh huh”

    • LOL: fish
  181. AndrewR says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s never been possible to have a reasoned debate about many, many, many subjects. The human capacity for reason is primarily used to construct sophistic arguments supporting whatever a given person wants/likes and opposing whatever a given person doesn’t want/like. Reason is but a slave of the passions, as Hume noted long ago, although I cant say that I agree that reason “ought only to be” so.

  182. @PiltdownMan

    It’s something of a conversation piece with visitors under 40.

    I feel obliged to point out that, while I am under 40, during my childhood in the early ’80s there were still plenty of rotary phones, black and white television sets, and 8-track players distributed around the homes of ordinary, working-class people; and not as curiosities either, but as the regular accoutrements of their daily lives. We tend to think of these things as ancient history, but they lingered on longer than we realize.

    The assumed timefulness of these devices has a deep psychological component that may not correspond well with actual history. I doubt most people would realize, for instance, that the earliest color television sets date back all the way to the 19-aughts, yet sales of color TVs did surpass sales of black and whites until 1972.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
  183. Corvinus says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    “Bwah hah hah! Because “algebra” right? Please.”

    OK, since you said please. Are you really this ignorant, or is it an act?

    https://www.storyofmathematics.com/islamic.html

    “Give the Indians their due, sapper.”

    Feather, not dot.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2008/04/how-aztecs-did-math

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
  184. Corvinus says:
    @syonredux

    “Bit contradictory there….”

    Not at all. Two separate ideas, chap.

    “Sans Inca gold? Pretty much where we are now.”

    Nope. That valuable metal, along with silver, helped to fund further exploration and compelled other European nations to explore the world.

    “Bit cart before the horse, dear boy.”

    Nope. Try a team of horses before the cart. In order for the West to advance as they did, they required the knowledge acquired by other groups of people. Without those things, along with Jew bankers, they would not be where they are now.

    Exactly why Mr. Sailer’s tired “white people created everything currently now” trope is foolish.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Moses
  185. jim jones says:
    @Buck

    Anyone who has bought a dairy product has enjoyed the benefits of JIT, Because they only have a lifetime of a few hours they have to be manufactured and shipped to retail before they are useless

  186. @Reg Cæsar

    I think Japanese cars made in China are for the Chinese market, not export to the US or Europe.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  187. @Corvinus

    without Chinese gunpowder, Muzzie math, and Incan gold, where would Europeans be today?

    Sans Incan gold, Spain and Portugal might not have ruined their domestic economies by making their own goods uncompetitive with imports.

    As for “Muzzie math”?  HAH!  Cousin-marrying cultures have too much IQ depression from inbreeding to develop squat.  Islamics stopped “developing” mathematics when they exhausted the intellectual and cultural capital of the peoples they conquered.

    Gunpowder would have been discovered anyway, and the Chinese were remarkably incurious about its possibilities in warfare, in mining, and just about everything other than fireworks.  A people genetically selected for rote memorization and against innovation literally could not see those potentials.  This is why China’s expansion will halt soon and it will collapse back on itself; it is already running out of Other People’s Improvements to steal.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  188. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    JIT is a waste and loss prevention measure.  If a part is being made wrong, you find out right away; you don’t wind up with a million of them in a warehouse and having to re-work or scrap them.  Having a pile of “inventory” that is unusable can be worse than having none at all.

  189. @Altai

    ” Even Adorno call it jungle music”

    NO suprise as Adrono was a bone-headed communist asshole, and clueless as to the working of the human psyche.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US army vet, and pro jazz performer.

  190. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    I’m guessing that the WE 500 desk set built to 100 percent authentic standards would cost several hundred dollars retail today.

    I really don’t see how. The $40 that WE charged the Bell operating companies must have been inflated to cover their large R&D budget. If you take a WE 500 apart it’s nicely built but there’s no unobtanium in there.

    Consumers are right not to want stuff that is overbuilt. When their stuff breaks they can just pick up another one on their next trip to Target, they don’t have to pay for a unionized tech to bring it to their house and install it. Having a phone that last 100 years is pointless when the technology changes every few years. Your WE 500 still works perfectly but who wants a dial phone? People don’t even want landlines at all anymore. So you’ve paid for 80+ years of durability that you will never use.

  191. fish says:
    @Mr. Rational

    I suppose.

    Chrysler seems almost willfully incapable of building an automatic transmission that’s worth a damn!

    Bastards!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  192. @Reg Cæsar

    Don’t forget about Iowa’s Meredith Willson coming up with hip hop

    <sigh>  So they ruined that too.

  193. fish says:
    @syonredux

    Dear boy, I’ve enjoyed making fun of you….but one should not over-indulge in cruelty…..

    You are mistaken sir! You should revel in tormenting the “T” brothers (Tinys and Troofys). How else will they ever learn!

  194. I always find it so interesting at how hateful these facts are to some women. In the not so distance past for the vast majority of humans, our days was spent toiling to provide basic sustenance and shelter. The male invented technologies allowed both men and women relief from this drudgery, created free time and longer lives. Today we have more women then ever, in the creative arts and all industries because of this, yet so ungrateful, so ungrateful.

    • Replies: @Gracebear
  195. JMcG says:
    @Anonymous

    I love this comment section!

  196. JMcG says:
    @Lurker

    It’s like staying in a hotel on vacation.

  197. baythoven says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes! The one in G-flat from the Op. 25 set. “Hoagy Carmichael” describes it perfectly!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  198. @Buck

    Consumer durables, like washing machines, seem to be less durable.</blockquot

    I remember reading a post by an appliance repair guy who said the reason appliance quality of things like washing machines has gone down is that people still expect them to cost $400.

  199. @Mr. Rational

    Speaking of POCs flying, here are the names of the tanker crew killed recently by a POC fighter pilot:

    Col. Kevin R. Herrmann, 38, of New Bern, North Carolina.
    James M. Brophy, 36, of Staatsburg, New York.
    Maximo A. Flores, 27, of Surprise, Arizona.
    Daniel E. Baker, 21, of Tremont, Illinois.
    William C. Ross, 21, of Hendersonville, Tennessee.

    RIP

    • Replies: @JMcG
  200. MarcB. says:

    The “blacks invented everything” canard is propaganda that is so profound that it’s likely to trigger those with average intelligence and curiosity to realize that they are being lied to. And if they are being lied to about this, what other information have they just accepted as fact that is false? Cultural leftists consistently overplay their hand.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  201. @Intelligent Dasein

    The first color television set I saw was in the late 1960s owned by a Black family. It was a console model that sat on the floor. Why? Because color TVs have a lot of parts like a lot more vacuum tubes tubes. Companies like General Electric designed and produced “Compactron” multi-function tubes to try to reduce the cost of these color behemoths. GE introduced their Porta-Color in 1966 so that the public could have an affordable set. So it’s understandable why it took quite some time fot CTVs to catch up with B&W sets.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porta-Color

  202. @The Alarmist

    ” Jazz like the Blues, was invented so white folks could claim to know how black folks feel without actually having to meet any of them”

    Damn this is just about the most stupid, idiotic comment I have ever encountered here, and you win the booby-prize for the expression of abject dumbkopfishness.

    As far as “Meeting” black people, this white person, myself, has been “meeting” black folks for his entire life starting with the angelic black housekeeper lady who raised him back in Detroit, to his black girlfriend of several years in the sixties, to the black musician compadre’ with whom he shared an appartement for several years in between marriages.

    You are full of it my friend.

    AJM

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  203. @Anonymous

    ” They don’t consider themselves white either”

    Disagree as I have played music sporadically with Gypsies over a period of forty years in which I resided in Europe, in the eighties I played weekly in a Gypsie jazz Keller in Germany, and I have never ever encountered a Roma person who considered himself to be negroid/colored or otherwise.

    Plus I have come across quite a few Gypsie musicans who could indeed read music, and quite well.

    AJM

  204. @Mr. Rational

    Agreed. Backstory: The network bosses thought the score was too sophisticated for children and wanted something more kiddy-like, but producer Lee Mendelson had specifically asked Guaraldi to use a style similar to his hit, “Catch the Rising Wind,” and stood his ground. Similarly, Mendelson and animator Bill Melendez backed Charles Schultz when he insisted that Linus’ Bible-reading was central to the story, despite their initial misgivings that it was too controversial. In addition, the networks were concerned by the absence of the then-customary laugh-track. The program wasn’t picked up until the Peanuts phenomenon got so much publicity in the media that they decided to take a chance.

    The result of not talking down to kids musically, theologically, or socially–like all Peanuts episodes, the program is brutally frank about childhood cruelty–was a classic.

  205. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Stick

    The super soaker must also rate quite highly in the consideration.

  206. Gracebear says:
    @George Taylor

    I am one woman, a wife married for 52 years and mother of three, who is so grateful for the huge achievements of civilized men. I look on civilized men, gentlemen (an inadequately appreciated category), as the highest achievements of a good society. But it is very difficult to create good, civilized men. I wish more women would concentrate on raising good children instead of trying to imitate men and force their way into high STEM fields by quotas where their female abilities cannot match those of the most gifted men. Unlike us, America’s main scientific rival China isn’t leading the way in exploratory science using quotas for different groups , especially women and minorities. We in the West are hamstrung by our self-inflicted goals of “diversity” and “inclusivity.” Is Harvard as excellent an institution for learning, teaching, and research as it was in the 1950’s? I doubt it. Instead it has become feminized and castrated. A white male gentile can hardly get admitted any more, and this was the group for whom Harvard College was created, almost 400 years ago.

    • Agree: Sarah Toga
    • Replies: @Sarah Toga
  207. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    JIT is fragile. It works in fair weather. Otherwise, it fails.

    Right. I know for a fact that a certain North American car manufacturing plant had to shut down after the Japanese tsunami because they ran out of several JIT parts.

  208. @Authenticjazzman

    And Mensa is German for Canteen … I notice you no longer trumpet your Mensa association.

    BTW, it’s called sarcasm … look into it, AJM.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  209. @YetAnotherAnon

    I think Japanese cars made in China are for the Chinese market, not export to the US or Europe.

    That’s why I excepted cars from the “made in China” criticism. But all that stuff made by, well, read this sentence from Wikipedia:

    Major Japanese electronics companies include Akai, Brother, Canon, Casio, Citizen, Fujifilm, Fujitsu, Hitachi, JVC Kenwood, Konica Minolta, Kyocera, Mitsubishi Electric, NEC, Nikon, Nintendo, Olympus, Panasonic, Pioneer, Ricoh, Seiko Group, Sharp Corporation, Sony, TDK, Toshiba and Yamaha.

    The best selling brand in China is Buick, by the way, manufactured there.

  210. @lavoisier

    The soundtrack to the Charlie Brown Christmas special was jazz.

    Vince Guaraldi was a biker. He composed “Linus and Lucy” in his head while motoring around the Bay Area freeways.

    Back before Nickelodeon replaced Camp Snoopy at the Mall of America, they’d play the tune as a signal that it was time for them to close up.

  211. @The Alarmist

    And Mensa is German for Canteen … I notice you no longer trumpet your Mensa association.

    I know an authentic jazzman who’s in Mensa. But he’s from another city, and is much nicer than this guy.

  212. Corvinus says:
    @Mr. Rational

    “Sans Incan gold, Spain and Portugal might not have ruined their domestic economies by making their own goods uncompetitive with imports.”

    Just when I thought you could not raise the bar for historical ignorance, you surprise me. The Portuguese domestic economy FLOURISHED in the 1400 and 1500’s. The gold brought from Guinea stimulated Portuguese commercial energy, as colonization progressed in the Azores and Madeira, where sugar and wine were exported. This nation also made contact and traded with China and Japan, and invested heavily in India and Brazil. In other words, the Portuguese had a dynamic economy.

    Indeed, Spain’s financial problems were multi-faceted in the 1500’s. With their colonies in the New World, valuable agricultural products and mineral resources had a long-lasting impact on its economy. However, large volumes of precious metals led to inflation, and industrial development hindered due to the reliance on wheat importation, the constant rising of taxes to pay for expenses, and a crushing military debt. In other words, there were a myriad of issues here.

    “Islamics stopped “developing” mathematics when they exhausted the intellectual and cultural capital of the peoples they conquered.”

    LOL. Europe was experiencing the Dark Ages when the Islamic world was preserving Greek and Roman antiquities and making mathematical and scientific advancements.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/timely-reminder-of-how-islamic-culture-helped-europe-out-of-dark-ages-1.690805

    You’re just not that bright.

    “Gunpowder would have been discovered anyway”

    Except the Chinese discovered it first, not whitey.

    “and the Chinese were remarkably incurious about its possibilities in warfare, in mining, and just about everything other than fireworks.”

    Try again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gunpowder#Chinese_beginnings

    “A people genetically selected for rote memorization…”

    Citations?

    “and against innovation literally could not see those potentials.”

    LOL, you are just not that bright.

    “This is why China’s expansion will halt soon and it will collapse back on itself;”

    Maybe. Then again, perhaps not.

    “it is already running out of Other People’s Improvements to steal.”

    Compared to the Golden Age of European Pillaging And Plundering, 1500-1900?

  213. @Gracebear

    Thank you for that comment. Your observations are spot on.

  214. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    “Bit contradictory there….”

    Not at all. Two separate ideas, chap.

    Well, let’s see:

    You mean white people AND these groups acted surprised upon their first encounters. They had been isolated and insulated. Each built up their own unique civilizations. Of course, without Chinese gunpowder, Muzzie math,

    Separate ideas which contradict each other….

    Nope. That valuable metal, along with silver, helped to fund further exploration and compelled other European nations to explore the world.

    Eh. The Iberian Peninsula was a cultural laggard during the period 1500-1700….Frankly, they would have been better off without all that New World gold and silver….

    And, if you want to cite stuff that came from the New World that really made a difference, I would have gone for maize and the potato….

    “Bit cart before the horse, dear boy.”

    Nope. Try a team of horses before the cart.

    I don’t think that you understand how that metaphor works….

    In order for the West to advance as they did, they required the knowledge acquired by other groups of people.

    So, your central idea is the well-known fact that Europe did not develop in isolation….

    Without those things, along with Jew bankers, they would not be where they are now.

    The Barings Brothers did OK….

    Exactly why Mr. Sailer’s tired “white people created everything currently now” trope is foolish.

    So, you’re claiming that Europeans did not develop natural selection, the laws of thermodynamics, relativity, the aeroplane, …….

  215. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    “Bwah hah hah! Because “algebra” right? Please.”

    OK, since you said please. Are you really this ignorant, or is it an act?

    https://www.storyofmathematics.com/islamic.html

    Diophantus…..

  216. syonredux says:
    @Corvinus

    “Give the Indians their due, sapper.”

    Feather, not dot.

    Do people still use that joke?

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2008/04/how-aztecs-did-math

    Are you claiming that Aztec mathematics influenced what was going on in the Old World?

  217. Moses says:
    @Corvinus

    tl;dr

    You didn’t really invent that, goy.

  218. Moses says:
    @Corvinus

    Of course, without Chinese gunpowder

    It’s weird how the Chinese never got the idea to put gunpowder in, ahem, guns. Took Euros for that. But totally — Euros deserve no credit at all.

    Egyptians invented paper so no one really invented anything because they needed paper to do it.

    Do you hear me, goys? You didn’t invent or build that.

    Credit for going to the moon goes to the Chinese, Muzzies and Egyptians.

  219. Moses says:
    @Anon

    The only thing worse for a non-White than living in a racist nation built by Whites is not being allowed to immigrate to a racist nation built by Whites.

  220. Moses says:
    @Corvinus

    Why do you hate the Whites?

  221. You know how the Victorians has these enormous suitcases that weighed a ton, made of wood, canvas, and leather? You know the whole steampunk aesthetic – brass telescopes, billiard balls made of ivory? You know those tinplate toys from the 20’s and 30’s?

    That’s a world without plastics. Just stop where you are sitting and look around at the sheer amount of stuff around you made of plastic. Don’t forget to include the paint. And that doesn’t even count the plastics you cant see: electrical insulation, the glues holding your house together, plumbing. Your clothes may be made of wool or cotton or even hemp, but the stitches holding them together aren’t.

    Without injection moldable plastic, every key on your keyboard would have to be hand-carved out of wood. The sheer amount of human labour that would have to go into making up the modern world we take for granted boggles the mind, without plastics.

    Check out who invented them.

    • Replies: @Moses
  222. Moses says:
    @Dave from Oz

    Check out who invented them.

    Yeah, but they couldn’t have done any of that without the Hindu zero. Checkmate, White Man!

  223. Blindlight says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Definitely not trolling. You want prosperity, follow Jewish power and you will see progress. Colonialism and Jews are synonymous. Look at the history of England before 1650 – when Jews returned and you will see a country that expanded only to an adjacent territory. Would we have had slavery in the modern world occurring without Jewish will to profit from it and subvert? I doubt it. Slavery, too, in North America was not legalized until after the English revolution. So, it was the Jews that decided whether to thumbs up an invention or tamp down knowledge of its existence in various ways from ignoring it in news coverage or using mafia tactics to get what they want. Of course, few ppl know that the Jewish mafia has always been top dog in that area whose status is kept secret by Jewish emphasis on other tribal affiliations
    Of course this theory is considered an insult to all whites that wish to promote the idea of how great the white race is

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  224. Anonymous[111] • Disclaimer says:
    @fish

    For decades the TorqueFlite was the best automatic transmission in the business. It takes several years to debug a new automatic transmission because they are inherently complicated. Blame the government CAFE regulations for a lot of this.

    Chrysler being the smallest of the “Big 3” they had the worst time coming up with an entire new design.

    Now Chrysler is an appendage of Fiat. Historically Italy was the worst market for automatic transmissions on planet, but they now have some pretty good tech. We’ll see how it turns out.

  225. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:
    @Blindlight

    The obvious objection to this theory is the great power and wealth acquired by Spain after it expelled its Jews.

  226. aandrews says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Geez, everybody hates smooth jazz. I don’t get it. Haters gotta hate, I suppooose. But I am a huge Al DiMeloa fan. Thanks for the link.

  227. Pyramids built by blacks? Well, of course they were – if you’re talking about the slave labour.

    An amusing Abele fact: Google “Julian Abele” (without the “von” in other words) and you’ll get a lot of tendentious information about a not-very-talented Philadelphia architect whose defining characteristic appears to be that he was “black”. In fact he looks to have been maybe a quarter or an eighth such. Married a Frenchwoman too, so his children probably looked completely white.

    Could our hero … ? Surely not.

  228. tanabear says:
    @Lowe

    The ancient people of the Near East(the Levant) can certainly be described as white. And so to can the Aryans who were the founders of both Western and Eastern civilizations.

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