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David Brooks Tells You to Read Bret Stephens on the True Meaning of America
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From the New York Times’ column by David Brooks:

… Second, McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story. Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

How about citizenship?

Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history. But McCain seeks to preserve our traditional rallying point — our ideals. My colleague Bret Stephens has already quoted from McCain’s speech on Monday at the National Constitution Center. I’d encourage you to read the whole thing because this should be the rallying cry around which the nation rediscovers its soul.

Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy. Paideia is the process by which we educate one another for citizenship. …

McCain’s career has had its low moments, as all of ours do — a banking scandal, Sarah Palin — but he exemplifies a practical standard of excellence to an extraordinary degree: enduring in Vietnam, seeking compromise legislation on everything from immigration reform to campaign spending, condemning torture after 9/11.

How exactly can McCain’s long campaign to debase American citizenship by spreading it to lawbreakers and their children be considered moral? We can unite Americas around citizenship’s privileges (you and your descendants get to live in America) and responsibilities (preserving the scarcity value of American citizenship for “ourselves and our posterity” to quote the Preamble, which the Brooks and Stephens never seem to do).

 
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  1. Wilkey says:

    Except that open borders and multiculturalism were not our ideals for the first, oh, 80% of our history – and even more than that if you count the 180 years of Anglo-American settlement prior to the ratification of the Constitution. From 1607-1965 we were emphatically a white, European and overwhemingly Christian country, without apology. Of course nothing important happened in the United States prior to 1965, so it’s understandable that we’d want to forget that period of our history.

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    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Good god. Open borders and Multiculturalism 1.0 were absolutely part of US history around the turn of the 20th century. The foreign-born population in 1910 was over 14% - even more than today.

    While most of those people were "white, Christian and European", the differences between these groups and between the WASP groups that had come before was immense and could only seem insignificant to someone without any real historical perspective.

    Obviously I'm not saying that Somali and Guatemalan immigrants today are just like Irish and Italian immigrants in 1880, but your characterization of this country before 1965 is astoundingly crude and sophomoric.
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  2. i don’t know who bret stevens is, but i do know (now) that i will never read him.

    i’m pretty confident brooks will never recommend heidegger, so i won’t have to retroactively not read him.

    btw steve, you were wrong about all the 100m finalists being west african.

    frankie fredericks was a namibian.

    were his parents immigrants? i don’t think so. he’s fairly light skinned, suggesting khoi-san ancestry.

    also afaik, “west africa” is never used in a sense which includes namibia.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    "Jorge Videla".

    Almost as good as, say, "Augusto Pinochet".

    But what do you have against Heidegger?
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  3. Actually only white people can be rallied around ideals and this is the rub. The campus straw man he’s saying is tribalist is using the cucks ideals against them al la alinsky’s make the enemy live up to their own rules knowing full well this is going to be a one way enforcement. the alt right hes subtly calling nazis isnt actually against his ideals only realistic that ideal rallying is an evolutionary development of out bred europeans and like welfare states and immigration, you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.

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    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    I'm amazed at how many leftists can't draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we'll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn't see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she's as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

    , @Altai

    you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.
     
    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they're fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.
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  4. Stealth says:

    It’s interesting that Brooks mentions John McCain. I’ve always thought of them, at the same time, as two people who are probably despised by everyone, because they have basically nothing to offer anybody. Both nominal conservatives, they’ve spent their careers betraying conservative vote. Brooks is probably motivated by higher loyalties, but McCain is truly shameless. John McCain has always been ready to sell out to liberals who dote on him when they need him and crap on him when they don’t.

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    • Replies: @Stealth
    voters
    , @Pericles

    It’s interesting that Brooks mentions John McCain. I’ve always thought of them, at the same time, ... because they have basically nothing to offer anybody.

     

    Excellent point.
    , @Jack D
    Brooks and McCain - the co-captains of the Washington Generals.

    Democrats admire a gracious loser like McCain when he is a Republican. They want their own candidates to be angry losers.
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  5. richard pryor said that when he visited africa (i think nigeria), the locals thought he was italian.

    i assume michael johnson is an african american and not a caribbean import, and therefore has significant european rapist genes.

    fredericks is 100% african afaik. look at the contrast.

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/frankie-fredericks-of-namibia-helps-michael-johnson-celebrate-his-picture-id72561010

    i wonder if steve is the only HBDer who can admit he raped a nun?

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    • Replies: @anon
    Jorge,

    Are you sure you are sober? I don't understand what you are trying to say.
    , @Jack D
    Pryor said this for comedic effect. Even in Nigeria, Pryor was clearly African. However, there are certain Africans (like Obama's father) who are so black that they appear blue-black. Every once in a while you see an African-American who is really that black but the average one has maybe 20% white genes and is not that dark.
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  6. Daniel H says:

    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If “paideia” is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it ‘Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers “of record”, and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

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    • Agree: Logan, Frau Katze, Forbes
    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    paideia is the ancient Greek word for "education." Fifty years ago, the title of Werner Jaeger's multi-volume survey of ancient Greek civilization, Paideia, was the go-to book on that subject. The book's and Jaeger's reputation in classical philology has evaporated. Brooks using the Greek word to stand for the hoity-toity education he got at the University of Chicago is as pretentious as the man himself.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Paideia? Sounds like some kind of Spanish melting pot, which is kind of where were headed.

    Paella
    https://www.anniebspain.com/wp-content/uploads/Paella-image1.jpg

    Guys like Brooks feel the need to flash their SAT vocabularies, even when it's such a stretch that it just makes them look like desperate nerds.

    Maybe they should assign him to the crossword section.
    , @Aristippus
    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here's a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave "boy". Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I've never heard the word either. I'll try to remember it for the next time I'm playing Boggle.
    , @Rod1963
    Brooks is name dropping to impress the yokels.

    He probably took it from Werner Jeager's opus on Greek culture and education "Paideia". it's quite readable It was well known back in the 40's and 50's.
    , @John Derbyshire, @guest
    I've heard the term, but I did my thesis paper in college on Plato. (Or Play-Dough as everyone who asked me initially thought. I eventually stopped correcting them.)

    Brooks knows he's going to irritate you and give thrills up the leg to people who recognize it. To me, he sounds pompous.
    , @AndrewR
    Derb linked the video that I was going to link, but I'm surprised neither you nor anyone else who responded to you have apparently seen that video. I mean watching that video is part of Alt-Right 101. But better late than never.
    , @Cagey Beast
    Yes, same here. The word “paideia” sort of rang a bell for me but that's about it. I like to pride myself on knowing how to pronounce "Nicomachean" so not knowing “paideia” hit me pretty hard.
    , @MBlanc46
    You clearly haven’t been reading your Mortimer Adler.
    , @AnotherGuessModel
    Are you familiar with the different words for love in Greek, agape, eros, and more? In the same vein, there are different words for education, and paideia is one of them. There is no distinct word in English for calling out the uneducated, uncultured, and lacking in civic awareness, without that criticism coming across as extremely elitist. But Greeks can lament the lack of paideia in someone, or the erosion of paideia in society, without a hint of snobbery; in fact, you might scorn a highly educated person for having no paideia instilled in them. So although it may sound pretentious to you, paideia could be a useful word for the English language.
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  7. Stealth says:
    @Stealth
    It's interesting that Brooks mentions John McCain. I've always thought of them, at the same time, as two people who are probably despised by everyone, because they have basically nothing to offer anybody. Both nominal conservatives, they've spent their careers betraying conservative vote. Brooks is probably motivated by higher loyalties, but McCain is truly shameless. John McCain has always been ready to sell out to liberals who dote on him when they need him and crap on him when they don't.

    voters

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  8. Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history.

    Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe because that’s how people tend to naturally organize. That natural segregation is not a “temptation”, it’s a tribal instinct. That natural segregation is not “menacing”, it’s been the norm throughout history for various tribes across the globe.

    What’s “menacing” is the plan to disregard human nature and history in order to ram into place a new world view that is sure to cause extreme social tension and conflict.

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    • Agree: NickG, whorefinder
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Menacing temptation--or--natural human instinct and practice?

    Who ya gonna believe? Brooks? Or your lying eyes?
    , @Broski

    What’s “menacing” is the plan to disregard human nature and history in order to ram into place a new world view that is sure to cause extreme social tension and conflict.
     
    From Marxism, to Gould/Lewontin's blank slatism, to the extreme capitalism of the Chicago school (humans are rationally calculating automatons who are subject to an infallible and automatically functioning invisible hand), to Freudianism (we can talk our way to perfection), to feminism (we can make men and women the same), most of the extreme, delusional movements of post-Enlightenment history have had as their animating force Jewish desire to transcend the problems inherent in Jewishness and its attendant pathologies.

    The glaring exception--national socialism--was an extreme, largely delusional gentile attempt to solve the perceived problems of Jewishness.

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  9. Issac says:

    I find it hard to believe that Americans on the right are still paying any attention to this narrative.

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  10. Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they’re all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    I think it's a way to sustain equity value for the lesser shareholders, at the price of accountability.
    , @Anonym
    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

    Odd or practical?

    Before homosexual marriage became Who We Are, the left had pushed for civil unions and before that simply normalization with rainbow branding efforts and the like.

    I am not attributing this as a goal of Steve but if we are to bring about the RWDSs as an end goal, citizenism is step 0.1. ;)
    , @Tim Howells
    I don't view citizenism as a viable long term strategy, but Steve Bannon just made good arguments for citizenism as the way to hold our current coalition together.

    http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/10/20/bannon-fire-ca-three-standing-ovations-gop-convention-keynote/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29
    , @Anonymous
    I agree, just citizenship is weak tea compared to either tribe or words. Race or ethnic group are historically powerful, as to an extent have been religious ideas (especially if you include communism as a religion).
    , @bomag

    Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they’re all nominally citizens of a country.
     
    But today's technologically advanced states were all once strongly organized around race, religion, and culture; those aspects are crumbling away in the face of making a buck, and the universalist's squawking for the care and feeding of refugees.

    We need some bulwark against the entropic regression to subsistence living. Citizenism is as good as anything else being floated.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    No, Steve is correct, if only for the United States.

    My identity as an American has never meant anything to me other than citizenship. I have never felt emotionally or culturally bound to groups within America who do not share my Northern European ancestry: the Italians, the Poles, the blacks, the Jews. But I will admit that one bond of citizenship: we are all in this together. It is that which the immigration flood has endangered, if not (quite yet) destroyed.

    Europe is different. There race and culture are crucial, as Catalonia is reminding us.
    , @3g4me
    @10 Methodological Terrorist: "I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

    Totally on point. As Z blog recently quipped, "Civic Nationalism is Progressivism in a tricorn hat."

    Citizenism rests on belief in magic paper + ideals, yet all of Sailer's posts support the non-citizenist belief that DNA MATTERS. Cognitive dissonance, much, Steve?
    , @Altai

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”
     
    Because you can have functioning multi-ethnic states so long as one core group clearly and unapologetically dominates it. Look at modern Iran, Russia or China.

    Americans don't (At least not yet) have a concept of an ethnostate, it's less clear how such ideas would work. Unless you're willing to go all ethnostate, you can't allow identity politics of any form, hence Sailer-style citizenism.

    The problem is people like Stephens and Brooks mean 'everybody else except white gentiles and maybe gentiles in general (All those black and latino BSDers) can have identity politics' when they say 'citizenism'.

    , @silviosilver

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”
     
    It only sounds odd if you imagine that Sailer actually holds it as an ideal he believes in. (I highly doubt he'd prefer the company of his black fellow citizens to the company of foreign Englishmen.) I suspect he just intends it as a delivery vehicle for tribalism. He thinks whites won't go for something crude as tribal calls, so his citizenism is basically an alternative way to achieve the same result, since the main group it will appeal to is whites.

    That said, I think he also assumes it would appeal to fair number of hispanics. I suppose it might, particularly as time goes on, but right now it's hard to see it competing with their ethnic loyalties.
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  11. Dr. X says:

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history…

    So, let’s see here… then why isn’t it a “menacing temptation” for the Jews to “organize people by ethnic tribe”?

    Pretty hypocritical statement coming from a Member of the Tribe whose son joined the IDF to fight for the tribal territory of Israel, instead of joining the USMC….

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    • Replies: @Bugg
    Every time Brooks opens his mouth he should have this shoved right down his piehole. COuldn't sell his own son on his cherished ideals.And further at least his son has had the balls to choose a tribe.
    , @guest
    I was opposed to multiculturalism because it was a conspiracy against my culture, not because it put ethnicity over (protean) ideals. I opposed leftists "identity politics" because I oppose the left, not because there's something wrong with having an identity.

    Conservatism, Inc. has itself a grab-bag ideology, mostly warmed-over leftism. They like to pretend these ideas are self-evident truths for the agesruths, or at least cornerstone truths of American and/or Western Civilization. Because that's the conservative pose. But really, they're making it up as they go. Which explains why the ideas are always changing. (I'm not going to check, but I assume there have already been articles about how tranny rights is a conservative cause, and that mixed bathrooms are as American as apple pie.)

    All along, they've been relying on people who disagree with them. Paleoconservatives, for one. Traditional identitarians and American cultural supremacists as well. Countless groups of people who identify with groups smaller than the entire human race.

    Now that "tribalists," or people who take nationalism seriously, are ascendant, of course they pretend they're leftists, or something. Not true conservatives. Because if they are, then what's the point in paying Brooks a salary?

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  12. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    paideia is the ancient Greek word for “education.” Fifty years ago, the title of Werner Jaeger’s multi-volume survey of ancient Greek civilization, Paideia, was the go-to book on that subject. The book’s and Jaeger’s reputation in classical philology has evaporated. Brooks using the Greek word to stand for the hoity-toity education he got at the University of Chicago is as pretentious as the man himself.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The book’s and Jaeger’s reputation in classical philology has evaporated.
     
    Why, what happened?
    , @big john
    More likely Brooks picked it up from Mortimer Adler at Chicago. Adler's Great Books discussion spun off his paideia philosophy for education, and is a lot more citizenist than Brooks is.
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  13. Also never mind that the padeia he speaks of has never been practiced outside of the Greek polises, early Roman Republic or the medieval Italian/Swiss/German republican communes that were all of course tribally homogeneous.

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    • Replies: @guest
    The paideai of which he speaks never actually existed. It's just an obscure way to say "civic culture." Brooks would prefer we all think the same way, as drilled into us in the grand Blank Slate manner.
    , @Alden
    Most Italian towns still call themselves Communes instead of Citta or Paese.
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  14. So…shouldnt organize around tribe…. Odd idea for Brooks to expound… Maybe what he means: “This is tribe club. Nobody talks about tribe club.”

    It seems to me that Stephens/Brooks are offended by white people that talk about “tribe club.”

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Of course, for an ethnocentric Jew, even one posing as a "citizenist" conservative like Brooks, non-Jews having their own clubs is a threat. They're not supposed to have their own clubs, particularly not golf clubs (golfocaust!). In his mind, Gentiles are always a second away from a pogrom and going full Cossack on their Jewish asses.
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  15. Funny that John McCain chose to unironically call on a phrase most famously used by Leon Trotsky to slam those Americans who don’t want to carry on the permanent, international American Revolution.

    To refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain ‘the last best hope of earth’ for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_heap_of_history

    The Wikipedia entry notes that Ronald Reagan used the phrase as a conscious dig at Marx, Engels and their heirs. McCain appears to be doing no such thing though. He seems to be looking at things from Leon Trotsky’s perspective.

    Tony Blair kind of had a thing for Trotsky too:

    Blair reveals he ‘toyed with Marxism’ after reading book on Trotsky
    Former prime minister tells BBC Radio 4 that learning about the Russian revolutionary was ‘like a light going on’

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/10/blair-reveals-he-toyed-with-marxism-after-reading-book-on-trotsky

    The late Christopher Hitchens was another self-described “ex-Trotskite” who thought America could be what the Soviet Union failed to be. Am I just falling for that vile canard that neocons are crypto-Trotskyites or is there a pattern forming? I don’t want to get in trouble with John Podhoretz or Bill Kristol or anything.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The late Christopher Hitchens was another self-described “ex-Trotskite”"

    Was C Hitchens really ever an "ex-Trotskyite"?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/07/the-old-man/302984/

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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy. Paideia is the process by which we educate one another for citizenship. …

    I think it’s interesting – although it might not be important – that the organization that Barbar Lerner Spectre founded in Sweden is called Paideia, the European Institute for Jewish Studies in Sweden, “a non-denominational academic institute established in 2001 and funded by the Swedish government,” according to Wikipedia.

    Barbara Lerner’s 2013 discussion of the role of Jews in promoting multi-culturalism in Europe in a video interview has been controversial. “I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role.”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ (Barbara Lerner discussing multiculturalism in Europe)

    From Miriam-Webster online dictionary:

    paideia:

    1 :training of the physical and mental faculties in such a way as to produce a broad enlightened mature outlook harmoniously combined with maximum cultural development

    2 :the ideal development envisioned or attained by paideia

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    She's crazy. Or stupid. Muslims (believing ones, at least) are taught by the Koran and Hadith to dislike all infidels but Jews especially because they fought against Mohammad in Mecca.

    There are contradictory passages in the Koran. The Koran is two books in one: the first in Mecca, the seconal part after Mohammed was chased out and went to Medina.

    The first part can sound quite reasonable in places. But, Islamic scholars say the later text abrogates the Mecca writings.

    Any Jew ignoring or sugar coating this will get an unpleasant surprise. It's already started. Only leftists are blind to it.

    , @Frau Katze
    That video is unbelievable. It has 1K up votes and 3K down votes plus some great comments. Everyone should go and add their down vote.
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  17. Luke Lea says:

    E pluribus unum. Soon they will be quoting W.

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    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I despise the Bush clan more by the day. Not a word of negativity during the 8 years of the white hating Obama regime. It has taken him less than one year for the dim-witted W to attack Trump.

    So much for the "it is beneath the dignity of the office for a prior President to criticize the current President" garbage we heard from the Bushes during Obama's two terms.

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  18. bgates says:

    McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    Insensitively, I said as much to a friend with only a high school diploma. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up…I quickly asked her if she wanted to talk about something else that’s essential for democracy and she anxiously nodded yes and we discussed Mexicans.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Well played, sir. Paideia, Padrino and Pomodoro, indeed!
    , @Impolitic
    That is brilliant.
    , @Forbes
    Yes, but did you have it on a baguette, or perhaps challah?
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  19. newrouter says:

    >Definition of paideia
    plural -s
    1 :training of the physical and mental faculties in such a way as to produce a broad enlightened mature outlook harmoniously combined with maximum cultural development <

    or indoctrination into the progg cult( zman)

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  20. Selvar says:

    A paradox that I’ve noticed is that both the Alt Right and the far left have a much better grasp of American history and the nature of the American founding than center-right cuckservatives do. Howard Zinn types may loath the Historical American Nation, but at least they acknowledge that the U.S. was in fact founded as a white ethno state with non-whites either being enslaved, made into second class citizens, or ethnically cleansed. Cuckservatives on the other hand hold a view of the U.S. as being founded as a colorblind, multiracial proposition nation with some vague Enlightenment ideology and pseudo-Christian theology mixed in for good measure. In this telling, the Founding Fathers, Martin Luther King, and Ronald Reagan are all part of the same American story towards a “more perfect union” whose most noble goals are tax cuts and the continued security of Isreal.

    Seriously, it’s pathetic, just pathetic, to watch cucks plead with their leftist overlords every MLK day about how “Dr.King” was really one of them and how he would not approve of contemporary minority identity politics or affirmative action (note: he would and did). The center-right cuck perspective on American history is so utterly divorced from reality and so obviously intellectually dishonest that I hold radical leftists like Howard Zinn in much higher esteem, as they are at least willing to face the historical reality about the American founding.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I used to think Conservatism, Inc. knew better but was being strategic or just plain lying. That may be true of Brooks, who speaks with a forked tongue. Most of them, however, I think are plain ignorant.

    But what do I expect, when their mission is to protect the status quo? It's all the better in defense of conventional opinion not to know anything beyond conventional opinion. Most people aren't cut out to be O'Briens.
    , @Millennial
    Leftists seem to pick and choose. One day, they're on the Howard Zinn bandwagon (America was always evil and has to be changed). The next day, America was always destined to be a leftist utopia and things like border enforcement or immigration control never existed ("that's not who we are").
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  21. bgates says:

    Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

    David Brooks wrote a book on moral character, during which he dumped his wife of 20+ years so he could start schtumping his research assistant for the book. So we’re not going to rally him around ideals.

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    • Replies: @Stealth
    Short, to-the-point, and damning. I agree.
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  22. @Luke Lea
    E pluribus unum. Soon they will be quoting W.

    I despise the Bush clan more by the day. Not a word of negativity during the 8 years of the white hating Obama regime. It has taken him less than one year for the dim-witted W to attack Trump.

    So much for the “it is beneath the dignity of the office for a prior President to criticize the current President” garbage we heard from the Bushes during Obama’s two terms.

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    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I've despised the Bush clan for decades. They are a repellent bunch and have been since the days of Prescott Bush and probably before.

    George W. is worse than stupid: he has the capacity to think but chooses not to. Truly stupid people are what they are, it is (generally) not their fault they are stupid.
    , @Danindc
    Agreed but his little brother was completely humiliated by Trump. So it's understandable...
    , @lavoisier
    I have despised the Bush clan for years. The first Bush was part owner of Omega protein, which destroyed the menhaden fishery. The second Bush destroyed the beauty of Austin, Texas when he was governor by siding with the "developers" instead of the people of Austin.

    Nothing this despicable family has done has ever surprised me.

    They stand for nothing besides getting rich.

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  23. Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe

    So we’re supposed to go with Brooks’ mind-reading of Trump rather than what he actual says and has always done? There is no dialogue with this kind of nonsense. It’s the most transparent smear imaginable. It’s not a statement about Trump, it’s a statement about his, and our, utter powerlessness in the face of total control of the megaphone by the likes of Brooks.

    You know who does organize themselves by ethnic tribe, and is often pretty well straight-forward about it?

    Is this Brooks’ twisted way of trying to deal with his feelings about that?

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    • Replies: @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.
    , @Anon
    FFS, they literally call themselves "The Tribe".
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  24. Jim Given says:

    It is always charming to be hectored about being tribal by a deeply provincial man like David Brooks, totally loyal to his tribe.

    Would be utopias, i.e., societies founded around loyalty to ideas – those certainly have a wonderful, successful history. The names Goebbels, Lenin, and Mao come to mind.

    For any tribe, a long run of successes means never having to rethink your basic ideas or strategies.
    For many such people, this is still the year 1960, an important time for a renewed emphasis on the central founding idea of America – Tolerance, believe it or not. I think the notion that America had consensus ideas was easier to push when America had (largely) a political and cultural consensus. Why did smashing that consensus ever seem like a good idea to the Ruling Class?

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    I agree that uniting around ideals has a bad track record. In fact, I'm trying to think of a counter example.

    The US is all that comes to mind, and it was far more homogeneous then than now.

    And it was not an upheaval like the French Revolution or the Bolsheviks. It was more of a break-away thing: tell the Brits get lost, we can run our own affairs. It was completely different than, say, Communism.

    The increasingly "multicultural" West will survive for now. But it would currently be incapable of dealing with something like WW II. It assumes that future will always be as good as it is now.

    The Greens are crazy about many things, but they're correct about how much we are stressing the environment now, never mind after a doubling of Africa's population.

    Things could could get ugly quickly. Those still grouped by ethnicity (I think it's more than religion) will have a clear advantage.
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  25. JohnnyD says:

    What about all the disastrous wars and military interventions McCain has supported over the past twenty-five years? I’m sure that’s what the Founding Fathers wanted…

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    • Replies: @Alden
    The founders wanted continuos wars westward until all the Indians, Spanish and British government entities were gone and we had everything between the Rio GRande and CAnada and from the Pacific to the Atlantic, including Cuba and Hawaii.

    But they didn't want to get involved in the continual wars in Europe.

    The great political theorist and father of numerous octoroon and quadroon babies John CAlhoun was the guy who prevented us from taking over Mexico after the mex amer war. Ever read CAlhoun? Makes all the political intellectuals of today look like 6 graders.

    Had he taken seccession to the supreme court, I believe his constitutional theories would have led the supreme court to let the south secede without the war.

    But Lincoln would have disobeyed the order from the Supreme court, just as he didn't obey the habeas corpus court order.

    A White person who knows what our government has done to us since Brown vs Topeka 1956 is a total fool for honoring and obeying the USA. Our government wants us dead and gone. Although we are too weak and submissive to fight our government, we can at least know it for what it is.
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  26. That the egregious David Brooks includes “Sarah Palin” in his shortlist of John McCain’s “scandals” is appalling! The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign. Her VP acceptance speech was brilliant —the revolt of the deplorables, years before the fact— and in light of Trump’s accession to the presidency, is worth looking at once again.

    Palin’s never publicly whacking McCain for what —arguably, more than any other factor— cost him the election, speaks volumes regarding her integrity and probity.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign.
     
    Nicholas Davidson, in The Failure of Feminism, suggested that Geraldine Ferraro similarly sabotaged (what was left of) Walter Mondale's campaign, though surely not intentionally. Just feminist arrogance playing itself out.
    , @Father O'Hara
    McCain wasn't supposed to win. When Palin injected a bit of life into his oldwhiteman campaign,he got scared and moved to wreck it.
    I had to laugh when Soros or (((whoever ))) it was did whatever sort of financial legerdemain they did to kick start the financial collapse,McCain announces he is suspending his campaign to go back to DC to fix it.He was like Curley: Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo!
    , @guest
    Yeah, but Palin didn't even go to Harvard, and couldn't name the magazines she read. How embarrassing for Brooks at cocktail parties!/s

    It was fun watching the Brookses and Charles Krauthammers of the world squirm over Palin, who was like a cross between Joe McCarthy, Lonesome Rhodes, and the hated beauty pageant queen (which she actually was, I guess). How insufferably gross./s

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  27. @Desiderius

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe
     
    So we're supposed to go with Brooks' mind-reading of Trump rather than what he actual says and has always done? There is no dialogue with this kind of nonsense. It's the most transparent smear imaginable. It's not a statement about Trump, it's a statement about his, and our, utter powerlessness in the face of total control of the megaphone by the likes of Brooks.

    You know who does organize themselves by ethnic tribe, and is often pretty well straight-forward about it?

    Is this Brooks' twisted way of trying to deal with his feelings about that?

    If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Oh well, that explains the article then.

    The Grey Lady continues to plumb the depths of bathos.
    , @Anonymous

    Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.
     
    So she's a shiksa; don't you know that's Job #1 for most Jooos? I don't know any that aren't with a shiksa, and that's about 15 or so. They don't have any interest in female MOT's.....they describe it as always being wrong with them.
    , @Brutusale
    In this Jews and blacks are the same: you aren't a success until you can replace the old Jewess/sista with a blonde!
    , @Stealth
    Was she required to convert, like his first wife?
    , @3g4me
    @27 Hanoi Paris Hilton: "If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her."

    Amazing that I never realized how simple it was to alter one's genealogical inheritance. Thank you for this.
    , @Broski

    If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.
     
    The shiksa goddesses strike again! Really, could Brooks be any more of a stereotype?
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  28. My colleague Bret Stephens has already quoted from McCain’s speech on Monday at the National Constitution Center.

    My God, it’s an asshole singularity.

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    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Damn, already used my LOL button!
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  29. Paiedeia has been used to signify super-SWPL private schools for a couple generations.

    https://www.paideiaschool.org/

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    • Replies: @Aristippus
    A bunch of my professors sent their kids there. Well, I guess I'm just proving your point...
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  30. Mike342 says:

    Excuse me while I throw up in my mouth every time an ethnic nationalist (Brooks) lectures me on the evils of ethnic nationalism.

    There is a no greater justification for future trials.

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  31. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    Paideia? Sounds like some kind of Spanish melting pot, which is kind of where were headed.

    Paella

    Guys like Brooks feel the need to flash their SAT vocabularies, even when it’s such a stretch that it just makes them look like desperate nerds.

    Maybe they should assign him to the crossword section.

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  32. Berty says:

    I suspect that as McCain’s imminent death draws nearer we’ll be seeing many more of these types of columns. McCain knows that his reputation as a “good” Republican is the only lasting political legacy he’ll ever have and he’ll continue acting like the giant asshole that he’s been for almost 20 years so that even after he’s gone and his successor appointed the likes of Brooks and Stephens and Boot will continue quoting him for years to come.

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  33. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here’s a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave “boy”. Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave boy"

    Of course, slaves used to educate children of a certain class. Which is why "pedagogue," using the same "pedo" root as paideai, meant a slave who schools boys. That's maybe where we get our terms pedant and pedantry, too. I'm not sure.

    "implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves"

    The children option is preferable. Think about it: if citizens have to be educated from childhood, you can't make a good American out of a foreign adult, can you?
    , @Anonym
    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here’s a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave “boy”. Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.

    Now that's a definition the Podestas can really get behind! Spirit cooking at the Paideai.
    , @Pericles

    Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves.

     

    Oddly enough, Paideia is also the name of Barbara Lerner Spectre's tax funded center in Stockholm. BLS is the Jewish 'Europe will become multicultural whether you like it or not, but you will like it' woman you can see on youtube.

    More formally known as the European Institute for Jewish Studies in Sweden. As a tax payer, I somehow feel cucked just by the name.

    http://www.paideia-eu.org/

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  34. Mike342 says:

    Paiedeia is the name of the Sweden-based institution from which slithered another loathesome and unabashed promoter of double standards so that a Euro nation can be flooded with Africans: Barbara Lerner Spectre.

    I wonder when the last time was that the NYT had a goy lecture the Jews on the meaning of their religion.

    Last, enjoy the re-melding of the Neocons and the Left. It’s a necessary, predictable, and entertaining show to watch.

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  35. Bubba says:

    How exactly can McCain’s long campaign to debase American citizenship by spreading it to lawbreakers and their children be considered moral?

    Amen iSteve!

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  36. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Desiderius

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe
     
    So we're supposed to go with Brooks' mind-reading of Trump rather than what he actual says and has always done? There is no dialogue with this kind of nonsense. It's the most transparent smear imaginable. It's not a statement about Trump, it's a statement about his, and our, utter powerlessness in the face of total control of the megaphone by the likes of Brooks.

    You know who does organize themselves by ethnic tribe, and is often pretty well straight-forward about it?

    Is this Brooks' twisted way of trying to deal with his feelings about that?

    FFS, they literally call themselves “The Tribe”.

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  37. anon says: • Disclaimer

    I am against human rights.

    In what could be considered a bookend to the frankly bizarre Brooks/McCain OpEd (Paideia ???), we are lectured in the World section of todays NYTs about the horrors of a new, hybrid evil: illiberal democracy.

    YANGON, Myanmar — Nearly a decade into Myanmar’s transition out of military rule, the country’s once-celebrated transition toward democracy is hardening into something very different from what activists and world leaders had hoped for.

    Citizens select their leaders, but without the robust institutions or norms like pluralism, universal rights or tolerance necessary for democracy to function.

    It wasn’t that long ago that Myanmar was considered as backward and oppressive as North Korea. What activists hoped for? When have activists ever been satisfied with any real world outcome?

    The civilian state, led by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, is rapidly centralizing power as checks and balances erode. It is growing oppressive in some areas and weak in others, ceding public space to extremists. Meanwhile, the military still controls important government functions and a perpetual quota of Parliament seats.

    She is ‘our guy’ …. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi … who we awarded a Nobel Peace Prize as a brave leader resisting the totalitarian dictatorship of Myanmar’s Military. But if her leadership fails to check every box on the lengthy list of requirements to quality as a true liberal democracy, she has turned heel and become a fascist.

    The country appears to be converging on a democratic-authoritarian hybrid, formally known as illiberal democracy, which often resembles mob rule. It is a version of majority rule that excludes minorities, curtails freedoms and governs arbitrarily.

    There are, believe it or not, 135 recognized ethnic groups in Myanmar. There are roughly 50 million people and a million or so Muslims, living on the border with Bangladesh, who have problems with the Buddhist majority in the region.

    The experts, activists, and global leaders are shocked, positively shocked that the harsh treatment of this Muslim group is actually popular among the citizens of Myanmar. There is an utter disregard for the level of poverty in that area of an generally poor country. Other experts have pointed out that it is ‘not helpful’ to apply terms like genocide to the conflict. But, of course, there is a global anti-genocide bureaucracy, ready and waiting to step in and call out bad behavior. They need something to do ever few years to justify their existence. It isn’t simply a problem, its an opportunity to do something or do anything.

    Its a Buddhist country. We know how violent Buddhists tend to be. It’s not like they are excluding all 135 recognized ethnic groups. It is a long, messy story and I won’t try to summarize it. Other than to say that Myanmar argues that most of them are relatively recent arrivals (Post WW 2) and the Muslims argue that there is evidence that (at least a few of them) have lived in Myanmar for centuries.

    So back to Human Rights. It seems like every stupid thing the US has gotten itself into has had some sort of Human Rights justification. In Iraq, the big lie was WMDs, but there was a constant argument that Saddam was violating everyone’s human rights. Kurds? He nuked them, no? There were others that I can’t remember. Some ethnic farmers of some sort that were harmed by a hydro project.

    And on and on.

    No one asked me. But the next time someone wants me to sign a petition relating to some atrocity or another, I’m simply going to say that I don’t believe in human rights.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "formerly known as illiberal democracy"

    I've literally never heard that phrase before.

    Usually, when they want to differentiate between good democracy--which produces results they agree with, and satisfies groups they depend upon/patronize--and bad democracy--which gives people like me a smidgen of say, and produces results that don't make me want to recreate society deep within the Earth's core--they call the latter politics. As in "playing politics" or "politicizing" an issue.

    , @Frau Katze
    Fareed Zakaria wrote a book on "illiberal democracy." I read it a number of years ago. It was the first time I'd heard of Zakaria.

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it's hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.

    You're completely right about Myanmar. It has a unbelievable number of ethnicities. There are even some that converted to Christianity.

    But they're currently united around getting the Rohingya to move back to Bangladesh. Myanmar is a clear example of how multiculturalism simply doesn't work.

    It started fragmenting soon after the Brits left post WW II. Within a few years, various groups were fighting each other over having their own homelands (this was the case even without considering the Rohingya).

    It became completely nonfunctional and a dictatorship ensued. Zakaria argued that in some cases, this is preferable.

    https://www.amazon.com/Future-Freedom-Illiberal-Democracy-Revised-ebook/dp/B000WJOW6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508570034&sr=8-1&keywords=illiberal+democracies
    , @MBlanc46
    I’m pretty sure that there aren’t many, or perhaps any, human rights.
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  38. Mainstream American conservatives are increasingly sounding like 1920s communists. Religion and tribalism are bad so we must unite around ideology.

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  39. Funny, I scanned McCain’s speech by following the link Brooks provided and not only did I not see the word “paideia” mentioned, but I didn’t see any phrase or train of thought that could be charitably construed as even tangentially related to that concept.

    From Wiki;

    “The practical aspects of this education included subjects subsumed under the modern designation of the liberal arts (rhetoric, grammar and philosophy are examples), as well as scientific disciplines like arithmetic and medicine. An ideal and successful member of the polis would possess intellectual, moral and physical refinement, so training in gymnastics and wrestling was valued for its effect on the body alongside the moral education which the Greeks believed was imparted by the study of music, poetry and philosophy. This approach to the rearing of a well-rounded Greek male was common to the Greek-speaking world, with the exception of Sparta where a rigid and militaristic form of education known as the agoge was practiced.”

    Now be honest. As you read this definition did McCain come to mind? Of course not. McCain’s entire piece is a tribute to his military experiences. Seems to me that McCain would better be understood as the product of the “rigid and militaristic” education that was practiced in Sparta.

    What is sacrilegious about Brooks’ hallucinogenic ramblings is the criminal injustice he does to the Greeks. I mean, come on. McCain as embodying the greatest qualities of the Greeks? The mind boggles.

    I will give Brooks credit for having mastered one small piece of paideia and that is the art of Rhetoric. Unlike Logic which is concerned with accurate ordering of thought, Rhetoric is the art of persuasive speaking so as to make the worse cause appear the better–today’s public relations, advertising or lawyering fit the bill. It is shysterism.

    Brooks is too (((tribal))) to be a Greek. He is everything Socrates argued against.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Maybe "paideai" was on Brooks' word-a-day calendar.

    Was Trump calling into question McCain's "agoge" when he denied his heroism in being captured? What did Spartans do to citizens who collaborated with the enemy?

    , @utu
    Power struggle between Greeks and Jews in antiquity was happening on all possible planes. Here is one example of cultural propaganda struggle for the narrative capture:

    Not less than the Stoics did the Sophists detest the Jews. But the causes of their hatred were not religious, but, I should say, rather literary. From Ptolemy Philadelphus, until the middle of the third century, the Alexandrian Jews, with the intent of sustaining and strengthening their propaganda, gave themselves to forging all texts which were capable of lending support to their cause. The verses of Aeschylus, of Sophocles, of Euripides, the pretended oracles of Orpheus, preserved in Aristobulus and the Stromata of Clement of Alexandria were thus made to glorify the one God and the Sabbath. Historians were falsified or credited with the authorship of books they had never written. It is thus that a History of the Jews was published under the name of Hecataeus of Abdera. The most important of these inventions was the Sibylline oracles, a fabrication of the Alexandrian Jews, which prophesied the future advent of the reign of the one God.
     
    ANTI-JUDAISM IN ANTIQUITY
    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lazare-bernard/1894/antisemitism/ch02.htm

    The tension between Athens and Jerusalem in modern times is well illustrated by the transformation of Allan Bloom in Saul's Bellow final novel Ravelstein. Spoiler alert: Jerusalem wins.
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  40. Paideia goes back to Mortimer Adler and the Great Books Curriculum. Also Robert Hutchins at Chicago.

    Adler believed that under democracy everyone is a member of the ruling class, therefore education should resemble the old upper-class education.

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    • Agree: MBlanc46
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  41. Brooks can’t say that immigrants must assimilate to our culture in order to become Americans. No, that would be politically incorrect, racist, and downright Nazi-like, so he forces us all to go look up his ancient Greek vocabulary word of the day, paideia.

    With this arcane word, he is implying that newcomers can just waltz across our borders, enroll in our paideia of enculturation, and thereby become part of a golden balance, a diverse excellence in which e pluribus unum meets arete. (Go look up the Greek word arete, Mr. Brooks. I learned it in Poli Sci 100.)

    Sorry Dave, cheap laborers from the third world aren’t Greek philosophers. Not gonna happen.

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    • Replies: @Mike342
    Jewish overuse of antique terminology betrays their low class nouveaux riche status. Yes, David, you've read a book at Aryan college. Its equivalent to a low class Anglo over-pronouncing French in an ironically backfired attempt to signal social status, patent leather shoes at an event that requires a "tux", and wearing labels. I would bet that his bookshelf is full of dusty classics with unbroken spines, and that perhaps he considered "xanthippe" for the name of some creature in his household.
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  42. This line of argument–America’s “traditional” glue is its ideals and not tribe–is disingenuous inasmuch as the tribal affiliations were more or less taken for granted in the past. Saying that accepting Catholic Italians is the same as accepting Islamic Africans is quite a stretch.

    There has been a constant struggle in US to expand the ideals from core America to other people, but just stating that “real” America is the ideals papers over any adult retrospective about the success of the expansion and the way the expansion has changed the country.

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    • Replies: @3g4me
    @42 Chrisnonymous: "There has been a constant struggle in US to expand the ideals from core America to other people, but just stating that “real” America is the ideals papers over any adult retrospective about the success of the expansion and the way the expansion has changed the country."

    Excellent new post over at Those Who Can See exploring exactly this issue. Most blogs, including this one to a certain degree, note the near impossibility of "assimilating" (I despise that mealy-mouthed word) the racially and culturally incompatible, but simultaneously extol muh magic Ellis Islander. Vox Day, to his credit, has written extensively on just how alien most of the Ellis Islanders were, how much they changed America, and how little genuine assimilation there has been. Those Who Can See properly labels it rather "amalgamation," which is something else entirely.

    tl;dr: No, your sainted immigrant grandparents and great-grandparents were neither sainted, nor special, nor in any sense genuine Americans.
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  43. “Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe”

    Hmm, I seem to recall the Clintons spending the last three decades organizing people by their ethnic tribe by promoting the “politics of identity” et al. But somehow that doesn’t count, I guess.

    Meanwhile, can Brooks quote a single tribalist statement by Trump?

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  44. @Cagey Beast
    Funny that John McCain chose to unironically call on a phrase most famously used by Leon Trotsky to slam those Americans who don't want to carry on the permanent, international American Revolution.

    To refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain ‘the last best hope of earth’ for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_heap_of_history

    The Wikipedia entry notes that Ronald Reagan used the phrase as a conscious dig at Marx, Engels and their heirs. McCain appears to be doing no such thing though. He seems to be looking at things from Leon Trotsky's perspective.

    Tony Blair kind of had a thing for Trotsky too:

    Blair reveals he 'toyed with Marxism' after reading book on Trotsky
    Former prime minister tells BBC Radio 4 that learning about the Russian revolutionary was ‘like a light going on’
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/10/blair-reveals-he-toyed-with-marxism-after-reading-book-on-trotsky

    The late Christopher Hitchens was another self-described "ex-Trotskite" who thought America could be what the Soviet Union failed to be. Am I just falling for that vile canard that neocons are crypto-Trotskyites or is there a pattern forming? I don't want to get in trouble with John Podhoretz or Bill Kristol or anything.

    “The late Christopher Hitchens was another self-described “ex-Trotskite””

    Was C Hitchens really ever an “ex-Trotskyite”?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/07/the-old-man/302984/

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    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    No I don't think he ever was but he did play cute about it, the same way Tony Blair does now.

    Both McCain and Bush Jr are Sunbelt silver spoon scions of powerful WASPy families who got Jewish nerds to do their homework for them for so long that it shaped their worldview. The end result is two rich old bastards who want permanent revolution and internationalism abroad and Mexican PRI party style creature comforts at home. By "at home" I mean their actual residences and those of their immediate family and friends.

    The Clinton-Bush era consensus is the American PRI in practice. It's like the Trotsky friendly Institutionalized Revolutionary Party of Mexico but for their larger and more powerful northern neighbour.
    , @MBlanc46
    Here he pretty much declares it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0pkWQ-DwgmA
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  45. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    If you jettison tribalism, and “nationalism distorted into nativism”, you’re left with universalism, which works against the scarcity value of citizenship.

    If America is about freedom, and everyone aspires to it, then what kind of bigot would want to limit American citizenship?

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  46. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I despise the Bush clan more by the day. Not a word of negativity during the 8 years of the white hating Obama regime. It has taken him less than one year for the dim-witted W to attack Trump.

    So much for the "it is beneath the dignity of the office for a prior President to criticize the current President" garbage we heard from the Bushes during Obama's two terms.

    I’ve despised the Bush clan for decades. They are a repellent bunch and have been since the days of Prescott Bush and probably before.

    George W. is worse than stupid: he has the capacity to think but chooses not to. Truly stupid people are what they are, it is (generally) not their fault they are stupid.

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    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
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  47. John McCain worked his way up from nothing to become a somebody. He wasn’t born with a golden spoon in his mouth, like Donald Trump. John McCain supports our troops because he was a soldier in Vietnam. Unlike racist Donald, who draft dodges and supports racist white people who hate foreigners…I think there is a word for that. Oh that’s right. Racism. John McCain is an American hero, who rose from poverty to success, based solely on merit. John McCain if he doesn’t die from AIDS cancer, should run for President in 2020 and save our country. Primary racist Donald and lets really, truly, make America Great Again!

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    • Replies: @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    What we got here is not a failure to communicate, but rather another Tiny Duck (albeit with English likely not his first language). Sen. McCain was the son and grandson (IIRC) of admirals in the US Navy.
    , @Crawfurdmuir

    John McCain worked his way up from nothing to become a somebody.
     
    If you call being the son and grandson of 4-star admirals "nothing."

    His not having his naval career terminated despite having crashed 2 aircraft and getting entangled in power lines with a third - all before being shot down over North Vietnam - probably had something to do with that, too - as did his not being prosecuted for having made "Tokyo Rose" styled recordings for the North Vietnamese, in violation of the code of conduct for POWs.

    McCain's modus operandi has always been to wear false virtue on his sleeve after being caught in some discreditable behavior. Thus, for example, after having been involved in the Keating Five scandal, he promised never to Keat again, and ostentatiously postured as an advocate of campaign finance "reform."

    There could be no better example than McCain of a "whited sepulchre" - neatly calcimined on the outside, but full of rottenness and death inside.
    , @Art Deco
    On the off chance this isn't a put on: McCain did not grow up in a particularly affluent family, but the Navy does provide a certain sort of security for those who make their life in it and his family in particular had considerable status ("military royalty"). There are some odd lacunae in his Naval career (he was permitted to remain on active duty even though he has some abnormal large-motor and small-motor deficits). N.B. McCain married a woman with an 8-figure sum of money behind her, after separating from his 1st wife.

    Re Trump: he was granted a I-Y deferment for a minor medical issue. About 12% of those of age to be examined for military service were granted I-Y deferments at that time, or over 200,000 a year. You could be re-examined for induction in as little as 90 days. I knew a man who was issued one for eczema on his insteps. About a year-and-a-half after his induction physical, the draft lottery was instituted and Trump's number was high enough that he wasn't ever going to be called up. There was no chicanery in this sequence of events and there were no strings pulled on his behalf. Everyone might be more impressed with Trump if he had enlisted, but there's a certain amount of distance between 'might be more impressed' and the contention he did something dishonest or dishonorable. The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders' eligibility).

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  48. syonredux says:

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe,

    Hey, the Israelis organize their society along tribal lines…..Maybe Brooks should ask his IDF-veteran son for the details…..

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  49. @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    Oh well, that explains the article then.

    The Grey Lady continues to plumb the depths of bathos.

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  50. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymouse
    paideia is the ancient Greek word for "education." Fifty years ago, the title of Werner Jaeger's multi-volume survey of ancient Greek civilization, Paideia, was the go-to book on that subject. The book's and Jaeger's reputation in classical philology has evaporated. Brooks using the Greek word to stand for the hoity-toity education he got at the University of Chicago is as pretentious as the man himself.

    The book’s and Jaeger’s reputation in classical philology has evaporated.

    Why, what happened?

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    • Replies: @Nico
    I suppose in part donors and notably (((big donors))) ordered that colleges divert funds to Chicano and LGBTQWERTY studies rather than connecting Western youths to our history because racism.
    , @Anonymouse
    What happened is that classicists woke up and noticed that Jaeger in 3 volumes didn't say anything specific enough about as yet unexplained puzzles in this or that text. So when someone writes a paper about problem x, they don't cite what Jaeger said about problem x because he didn't say anything about problem x. I met the man once at sherry party at Harvard. He asked me what I was "working on." I muttered something about the relationship of Hesiod to Aeschylus. He replied "But I thought my student Solmsen had already dealt with that." One of my first experiences of being put down by the high and mighty, but not my last.
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  51. Bugg says:
    @Dr. X

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history...
     
    So, let's see here... then why isn't it a "menacing temptation" for the Jews to "organize people by ethnic tribe"?

    Pretty hypocritical statement coming from a Member of the Tribe whose son joined the IDF to fight for the tribal territory of Israel, instead of joining the USMC....

    Every time Brooks opens his mouth he should have this shoved right down his piehole. COuldn’t sell his own son on his cherished ideals.And further at least his son has had the balls to choose a tribe.

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  52. @Desiderius
    Paiedeia has been used to signify super-SWPL private schools for a couple generations.

    https://www.paideiaschool.org/

    A bunch of my professors sent their kids there. Well, I guess I’m just proving your point…

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  53. Steve Sailer is kind of racist and doesn’t support opportunities for my friends of ethnic minorities . Bomb Iran and fuck you Nazis too and if you speak ill of me I’ll block your racist ass.

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    • Replies: @M. Hardesty
    Kind of racist? The man is a full blown klamsmen!
    , @Forbes
    For a first comment, you should up your game a bit--"racist" twice, a "Nazi," and a "fuck you" is not much of an effort...
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  54. @ARISTIPPUS I doubt you ever went to college because you seem like a low iq white. Why are you stalking your imaginary professors and their children? Weirdo.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Boooooorrriinnnggg...

    Another commenter to join Tiny Duck and Corvinus on the ignore list...
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  55. lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are also a capitalist, free-market economy without socialism. They don’t organize their society in any way whatsoever. The people organize their government. Learn about what democracy is. Read a book or maybe take a community college class after (if you have the metal fortitude) you pass your GED exam.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    @syonredux lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are also a capitalist, free-market economy without socialism. They don’t organize their society in any way whatsoever. The people organize their government. Learn about what democracy is. Read a book or maybe take a community college class after (if you have the metal fortitude) you pass your GED exam.
     
    Top-notch satire.
    , @guest
    I lack the metal fortitude of a Superman/Uncle Joe Stalin (men of steel both). But I might have enough to get an equivalence degree. Because that involves head-butting the procter, or something like that, right?
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  56. Vinay says:

    “preserving the scarcity value of American citizenship”

    Whatever the sins of immigration policy, it’s certainly *preserving* the scarcity of American citizenship. World population growth has consistently outstripped US population growth for at least a century.

    I’m pretty sure if you look at the top 10 countries of origin for immigrants, those countries population growth outstrips the US too. So US citizenship is certainly not getting less scarce.

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    • Replies: @3g4me
    @56 Vinay: "Whatever the sins of immigration policy, it’s certainly *preserving* the scarcity of American citizenship. World population growth has consistently outstripped US population growth for at least a century."

    Yeah, gee, we are merely third in the world in terms of population. We really should be working harder to keep up with international power-houses India and China by importing more Indians and Chinese. Oh wait, we are! And meanwhile quality and satisfaction with life are decreasing and intercultural conflict and stress are increasing.

    Hmmmn, wasn't there a rather recent thread where AM asserted my point and the famously non-tribal Jack D felt compelled to "correct" her?

    And besides which, Steve has noted that White people neither breed nor thrive in captivity (or extremely crowded locales). Your cultural heritage is obviously different - yet another example of how "citizenism" is an incoherent philosophy resting on a belief in multiculturalism utterly at odds with the reality of HBD.

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  57. David Brooks Tells You to Read Bret Stephens on the True Meaning of America

    George Brett Tells You to Read Brooks Robinson on the True Meaning of Baseball.

    There. Fixed it.

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  58. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    I’ve never heard the word either. I’ll try to remember it for the next time I’m playing Boggle.

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  59. @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    That the egregious David Brooks includes "Sarah Palin" in his shortlist of John McCain's "scandals" is appalling! The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign. Her VP acceptance speech was brilliant —the revolt of the deplorables, years before the fact— and in light of Trump's accession to the presidency, is worth looking at once again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MwAHP0jssY

    Palin's never publicly whacking McCain for what —arguably, more than any other factor— cost him the election, speaks volumes regarding her integrity and probity.

    The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign.

    Nicholas Davidson, in The Failure of Feminism, suggested that Geraldine Ferraro similarly sabotaged (what was left of) Walter Mondale’s campaign, though surely not intentionally. Just feminist arrogance playing itself out.

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    • Replies: @Rod1963
    Bush had already wrecked the GOP brand and this rotten tempered freak offered people no alternative to the business as usual of selling out America.

    Really no one liked him. The MSM propped him up because he was a useful tool and neo-con globalist like the rest of the swamp. He just wanted to attack Iran and Syria, basically start WWIII like a good little establishment WASP.

    His campaign was a disaster and I could never find anyone who liked him. He offered nothing to the working and middle-class except amnesty and a giant FU. Palin was his best decision but she made the old goat look tired and flat, so he side lined her.

    Now he gets to die in office.

    .
    , @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    Not clear if you mean that Palin was like Ferraro, or that McCain was the saboteur, as I posit. And how does politicized feminism —a subset maybe of "cultural Marxism"— figure in mentioning Palin here?
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  60. big john says:
    @Anonymouse
    paideia is the ancient Greek word for "education." Fifty years ago, the title of Werner Jaeger's multi-volume survey of ancient Greek civilization, Paideia, was the go-to book on that subject. The book's and Jaeger's reputation in classical philology has evaporated. Brooks using the Greek word to stand for the hoity-toity education he got at the University of Chicago is as pretentious as the man himself.

    More likely Brooks picked it up from Mortimer Adler at Chicago. Adler’s Great Books discussion spun off his paideia philosophy for education, and is a lot more citizenist than Brooks is.

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  61. @bgates
    McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    Insensitively, I said as much to a friend with only a high school diploma. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up...I quickly asked her if she wanted to talk about something else that's essential for democracy and she anxiously nodded yes and we discussed Mexicans.

    Well played, sir. Paideia, Padrino and Pomodoro, indeed!

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  62. syonredux says:
    @Kyle Kopelovich
    @syonredux lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are also a capitalist, free-market economy without socialism. They don't organize their society in any way whatsoever. The people organize their government. Learn about what democracy is. Read a book or maybe take a community college class after (if you have the metal fortitude) you pass your GED exam.

    lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are also a capitalist, free-market economy without socialism. They don’t organize their society in any way whatsoever. The people organize their government. Learn about what democracy is. Read a book or maybe take a community college class after (if you have the metal fortitude) you pass your GED exam.

    Top-notch satire.

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    • Replies: @Kyle Kopelovich
    @Syonredux

    Top notch racism.
    , @Bill
    His youtube channels are hilarious. He has Tiny Duck beaten, hands down.
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  63. American citizenship should be available to all Americans who come here, regardless of legal status. We can sign them up for the Army and they can become John McCain. It’s called the American dream. Like your low iq white ancestors had. Look how good their doing now in their socialist economies! That is why they left! Socialism sucks. McCain 2020!

    Off Topic: Anyone seen how my second favorite conservative and a war hero, who served when Trump didn’t, is becoming all chummy with Trump? Graham probably has some dirt on Trump about how Trump (who is a rapist) is actually gay. I bet Graham is blackmailing Trump to pass pro-american amnesty and increase America’s streghth, because if we actually deport the unauthorized immigrants, well there goes the next crop of army recruits and population growth and there goes our army recruits and real estate market. It’s funny, things aren’t as simple as you guys think. You guys don’t think about future threats.

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  64. @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    That the egregious David Brooks includes "Sarah Palin" in his shortlist of John McCain's "scandals" is appalling! The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign. Her VP acceptance speech was brilliant —the revolt of the deplorables, years before the fact— and in light of Trump's accession to the presidency, is worth looking at once again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MwAHP0jssY

    Palin's never publicly whacking McCain for what —arguably, more than any other factor— cost him the election, speaks volumes regarding her integrity and probity.

    McCain wasn’t supposed to win. When Palin injected a bit of life into his oldwhiteman campaign,he got scared and moved to wreck it.
    I had to laugh when Soros or (((whoever ))) it was did whatever sort of financial legerdemain they did to kick start the financial collapse,McCain announces he is suspending his campaign to go back to DC to fix it.He was like Curley: Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo!

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    It was odd how McCain, whose campaign was broke, suddenly became "the one" and had beaucoup dollars stuffed into his pockets for the race. Very odd.

    Well, Obama was the champ. And every champ needs a bum to beat on the way to the top.
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  65. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    John McCain is the only moderate traitor willing to ignore the law and do whatever the pimp donors tell him. After serving the Vietnamese by knocking down five or six planes he was flying poorly, he almost sank an aircraft carrier with a Zoomie Rocket and then sang like a bird at the Hanoi Hilton. Not even Benedict Arnold can match that record of treason. AIPAC needs this traitor to attack every neighbor of Israel without regard to Americans. His brain is senile and cancer ridden. That brainless treason is the kind the New York Times wants conserved. A maverick who will do the bidding of whomever fills his pocket in the cloak room.

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    • Replies: @Bugg
    Recall McCain singing gleefully "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran". This is the paragon of smart foreign policy?
    Despite no financial acumen at all he suspended his campaign to solve the 2008 Wall Street meltdown; go out and buy some Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns today. His campaign's big idea regarding Palin was to have her spend a day with Katie Couric. He refused to discuss Obama's college record, his travels to Pakistan, Obama's gayer than West Village during the Halloween parade boyfriend on the couch picture, the Chicago gay scene, Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers.In short, McCain gave up. And really as bad as Obama was, McCain would have been a terrible president.The MSM trots out braindead McCain as a conservative when ever it's useful, and he loves the attention even after getting played every time. McCain's idea of conservative is what ever he thinks is a good idea right now.There is no governing philosophy past what ever McCain heard or saw in the last 10 minutes.
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  66. @Nate Meissnerstein
    Steve Sailer is kind of racist and doesn't support opportunities for my friends of ethnic minorities . Bomb Iran and fuck you Nazis too and if you speak ill of me I'll block your racist ass.

    Kind of racist? The man is a full blown klamsmen!

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  67. Impolitic says:

    You don’t preserve ideals with speeches. You preserve them by preserving the culture that produced them rather than replacing it with alien cultures with alternate ideals.

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  68. Comments on McCain’s “complete the danged fence” ad:

    * What a load a crap, John McCain is all for amnesty. He’s never had a stance against illegal immigration, he is desperate and should disappear.

    * I’m pretty sure he didn’t lift one single finger to “complete the danged fence” in the past six years.

    * Stupid Republicans fall for the same “Bait and Switch” every year… Trump 2016!!! LOL!!!

    * That mofo is a lie complete the dang fence more like roll out the red carpet for illegals

    McCain did something similar during the 2000 presidential election where he tried to outflank Bush by supporting the confederate flag during the SC primary, for which he later apologized.

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  69. Rod1963 says:
    @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    Brooks is name dropping to impress the yokels.

    He probably took it from Werner Jeager’s opus on Greek culture and education “Paideia”. it’s quite readable It was well known back in the 40′s and 50′s.

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  70. @Desiderius

    My colleague Bret Stephens has already quoted from McCain’s speech on Monday at the National Constitution Center.
     
    My God, it's an asshole singularity.

    Damn, already used my LOL button!

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    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    http://www.unz.com/masthead/#comments-policy

    In addition, frequent commenters who have checked that box are allowed to leave Agree/Disagree/LOL/Troll indicators on other comments, though no more than once per hour.
     
    After an hour you can use the LOL button again. You may have to refresh the page.
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  71. banned?

    sad!

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  72. @syonredux

    @syonredux lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are also a capitalist, free-market economy without socialism. They don’t organize their society in any way whatsoever. The people organize their government. Learn about what democracy is. Read a book or maybe take a community college class after (if you have the metal fortitude) you pass your GED exam.
     
    Top-notch satire.

    @Syonredux

    Top notch racism.

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  73. Impolitic says:
    @bgates
    McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    Insensitively, I said as much to a friend with only a high school diploma. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up...I quickly asked her if she wanted to talk about something else that's essential for democracy and she anxiously nodded yes and we discussed Mexicans.

    That is brilliant.

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  74. seven times and still my comment does not appear.

    i only know this because i have to save all of my comments on HBD blogs.

    HBDers make stalin look like jimmy carter.

    here it is…

    and on my first try.

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28s67ih&s=8#.VjAk0bM2tyQ

    turn up the volume!

    still not appearing.

    are all computer people retarded?

    i think so.

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  75. Rod1963 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign.
     
    Nicholas Davidson, in The Failure of Feminism, suggested that Geraldine Ferraro similarly sabotaged (what was left of) Walter Mondale's campaign, though surely not intentionally. Just feminist arrogance playing itself out.

    Bush had already wrecked the GOP brand and this rotten tempered freak offered people no alternative to the business as usual of selling out America.

    Really no one liked him. The MSM propped him up because he was a useful tool and neo-con globalist like the rest of the swamp. He just wanted to attack Iran and Syria, basically start WWIII like a good little establishment WASP.

    His campaign was a disaster and I could never find anyone who liked him. He offered nothing to the working and middle-class except amnesty and a giant FU. Palin was his best decision but she made the old goat look tired and flat, so he side lined her.

    Now he gets to die in office.

    .

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I agree totally, Rod, and with Hanoi up above. To me, Sarah Palin was the only reason I even THOUGHT OF voting for this scumbag, hoping he wouldn't last 4 years. I couldn't take that chance, though, and voted Libertarian.

    Kind of like Trump, Sarah Palin pissed off the right people.
    , @Bubba
    Well said - at least his disability payments (100%), retirement pay, and a cushy federal job with platinum health benefits will be less of a burden to taxpayers soon. Unfortunately, his ultra-millionaire second wife will continue to bank his Senator salary until she dies. McCain never should have been accepted into the Naval Academy, let alone graduate at the bottom of his class. History would have been far better for the world if John McCain had grown his hair long and went to UCLA for music or film like Jim Morrison (Admiral George Morrison's son) and stayed away from the military and public life.
    , @Boomstick
    I'm not so sure the media could have been called "friendly" to McCain in 2008 when running against Obama. He was often denounced as some sort of Nazi, as is everyone who runs against a Democratic presidential candidate.

    Trump has been clever enough to just tell the media they're faux via twitter. The media goes insane, and the public agrees with Trump. Also about the football pledge of allegiance.
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  76. what am i missing?

    eight times and it’s till not appearing.

    WHAT AN UTTER PATHETIC PIECE OF SHIT THIS BLOG IS.

    FUCKING SAD!

    i only know this because i have to save all of my comments on HBD blogs.

    HBDers make stalin look like jimmy carter.

    here it is…

    and on my first try.

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28s67ih&s=8#.VjAk0bM2tyQ

    turn up the volume!

    still not appearing.

    are all computer people retarded?

    i think so.

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  77. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

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    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    It's odd and a bit insulting. A Jew has to borrow an Aryan Greek concept to deliver a lecture to gentile Aryans on the subject of how to rear their children.

    I have a minor in classics, attended college in Greece and have traveled through a good part of Greece, from Thessaloniki to Crete. I've pored over many display cases in numerous museums, studied their art history both in the classroom and first hand, walked amidst the ruins of their temples and public buildings, read and reread the dramatists, politicians, philosophers and historians. It got to where I could date any piece of pottery or work of art to within 25-50 years just by looking at it.

    A Jew has no business commenting about Greek civilization except as an outside observer. Judaism and Greek civilization are as incompatible as oil and water. They come from a different place in the human psyche and tend towards different places. To use Aristotle's phrasing, they differ in their Causes.

    Materially, they are of different genetic heritage.

    Formally, the Greeks were democratic in their city states, while the Jews were and are an autocratic, patrician, Theocratic people.

    Finally, the Greeks sought Arete--Virtue (in the sense of paideia above)--while the Jew (ever the wheedler who thinks he got the bad end of a deal) wants to force Yahweh to uphold his end of the bargain.

    No Jew should ever, ever invoke a Greek concept or cultural trait in taking down a Gentile. Know thyself, David. Stick to your sling, your stone and your Giant. Through the lens of your rudimentary civilization and your people's puerile superstitions you cannot even begin to comprehend the wonder that was Greece.
    , @utu
    Barbara Lerner Spectre's paideia:

    I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.
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  78. @Reg Cæsar

    The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign.
     
    Nicholas Davidson, in The Failure of Feminism, suggested that Geraldine Ferraro similarly sabotaged (what was left of) Walter Mondale's campaign, though surely not intentionally. Just feminist arrogance playing itself out.

    Not clear if you mean that Palin was like Ferraro, or that McCain was the saboteur, as I posit. And how does politicized feminism —a subset maybe of “cultural Marxism”— figure in mentioning Palin here?

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  79. @Kyle Kopelovich
    John McCain worked his way up from nothing to become a somebody. He wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth, like Donald Trump. John McCain supports our troops because he was a soldier in Vietnam. Unlike racist Donald, who draft dodges and supports racist white people who hate foreigners...I think there is a word for that. Oh that's right. Racism. John McCain is an American hero, who rose from poverty to success, based solely on merit. John McCain if he doesn't die from AIDS cancer, should run for President in 2020 and save our country. Primary racist Donald and lets really, truly, make America Great Again!

    What we got here is not a failure to communicate, but rather another Tiny Duck (albeit with English likely not his first language). Sen. McCain was the son and grandson (IIRC) of admirals in the US Navy.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Can someone who used the phrase "AIDs cancer" possibly be on the level? Or was that an error in translation?

    Of course, most people assume T.D. is pulling our legs.
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  80. Doug says:

    OT:

    “Senator Graham Says Terrorism War Expanding, Citing Africa Clash”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-20/senator-graham-says-terrorism-war-expanding-citing-africa-clash

    What’s more brutal and pointless than fighting ground wars in Asia? Answer: ground wars in Africa. Looks like we’ll be fighting a lot more soon, according to Mattis. Guess the Trump administration isn’t really interested in ending America’s invade the world, invite the world ethos.

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    • Replies: @jill
    Read a little Nick Turse and you will realize that Africom expanded greatly under Obama cloaked in a humanitarian veil

    http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176070/tomgram:_nick_turse,_america's_empire_of_african_bases/

    or listen:
    https://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/13/tomorrows_battlefield_as_us_special_ops

    https://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/13/part_2_nick_turse_on_us
    , @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
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  81. Also we are not a “Christian country” . The slaves that your ancestors brought over were mostly Muslims and they built this country. If anything, we are a Judeo-Christian country but lets not forget about the millions of Muslims who were brought here on slave ships and forcibly converted to Christianity.

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    • Replies: @guest
    If they were forcibly converted, what is your point?
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Hey Kyle, how come we don't see you and Tiny Duck together ever in the same pond under the same post? Now, that is kind of strange....
    , @Alden
    Historians agree that only about 650,000 Africans were brought to the United States on slave ships.

    The millions we have today are millions and 12.5 percent of the country are due to natural increase,including from Whites, almost all men.
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  82. guest says:

    “McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story.”

    “Story?” Don’t you mean Narrative, Brookesy?

    Which Narrative are we talking about, here? I know any number of them could be called the “American Story,” because to our elite the country is a Marvel Comics series, which can be ‘retconned” whenever they want.

    I assume McCain was spouting boilerplate American Exceptionalism, Invade the World/Invite the World/In Hoc to the World. Plenty of Republicans stand up for that, Brookesy.

    It’s fortunate, I suppose, that the rising tide of nationalism is taken to be the de facto platform of the Republican Party by a House Conservative at the NYT. I happen to know a majority are still squishy moderates leaning with the breeze. Pretending they’re all budding white nationalists helps move the window.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Pretending they’re all budding white nationalists helps move the window.
     
    Unlikely.

    That pretense is the choke-collar the globalists use to keep the cucks in line.
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  83. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @jorge videla (BGI volunteer)
    richard pryor said that when he visited africa (i think nigeria), the locals thought he was italian.

    i assume michael johnson is an african american and not a caribbean import, and therefore has significant european rapist genes.

    fredericks is 100% african afaik. look at the contrast.

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/frankie-fredericks-of-namibia-helps-michael-johnson-celebrate-his-picture-id72561010

    i wonder if steve is the only HBDer who can admit he raped a nun?

    Jorge,

    Are you sure you are sober? I don’t understand what you are trying to say.

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    • Replies: @black sea
    This guy used to comment at Lion of the Blogosphere. A complete head case.
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  84. Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

    Religions are absolutely tribes, they are the most powerful form of tribe. Citizenship is a tribal unit too Sailer. Either humans rally as a tribe or they don’t.

    Persuade rival tribes that their noble ideals compel them to disband and be conquered but make sure your own tribe fights for survival. Or argue/pretend that your tribe isn’t really a tribe when persuading other tribes to disband and fade away.

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history. But McCain seeks to preserve our traditional rallying point — our ideals.

    Humans are inherently wired to be tribal. Political party is a dominant tribal unit. Religion, race/ethnicity, linguistic group, nationality, and of course, family are tribes. Sports teams are a trivial entertainment form of tribe.

    And this delusional fantasy that the American tradition and core value has been anti-tribe… America has always been racist. Abe Lincoln was racist, Woodrow Wilson was racist, LBJ was racist… pretty much, all humanity is racist. The Left has shouted that to the moon, and they are right. But now that it serves their purpose, America’s core value and identity is no more loyalty to fellow citizens than random strangers, and some kind of anti-white racial politics.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    Religions are absolutely tribes
     
    If you define "tribe" as "cohesive group of people", yes. But then anything human beings can be rallied around becomes automatically a tribe.
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  85. Broski says:

    It’s hard to name someone more destructive than Juan McAmnesty. Unlike Lindsay!, he’s been able to cloak himself in patriotism and honor due to the POW thing, so the imperceptive failed to see how nakedly lacking he is in virtue. (Lindsay has a Blago/DeLay vibe that’s unmistakable.) If he is the hoped-for philosophical savior of Brooks and Stephens, then we know he is an agent of evil (too strong a word? I don’t think so).

    And his standard bearing for evil is a charge additional to the charge that he won the GOP nomination in ‘08 as a vanity campaign, then more or less threw the election because he didn’t care about winning the actual presidency. (Back then, Mittens actually seemed like a good potential nominee because at least he pretended to be against the brown flood. What a phenomenon Trump is!)

    History will remember McCain as shameful, to the extent it remembers him at all.

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  86. @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    I think it’s a way to sustain equity value for the lesser shareholders, at the price of accountability.

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  87. Anonym says:
    @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

    Odd or practical?

    Before homosexual marriage became Who We Are, the left had pushed for civil unions and before that simply normalization with rainbow branding efforts and the like.

    I am not attributing this as a goal of Steve but if we are to bring about the RWDSs as an end goal, citizenism is step 0.1. ;)

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  88. guest says:
    @Aristippus
    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here's a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave "boy". Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.

    “the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave boy”

    Of course, slaves used to educate children of a certain class. Which is why “pedagogue,” using the same “pedo” root as paideai, meant a slave who schools boys. That’s maybe where we get our terms pedant and pedantry, too. I’m not sure.

    “implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves”

    The children option is preferable. Think about it: if citizens have to be educated from childhood, you can’t make a good American out of a foreign adult, can you?

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  89. guest says:
    @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    I’ve heard the term, but I did my thesis paper in college on Plato. (Or Play-Dough as everyone who asked me initially thought. I eventually stopped correcting them.)

    Brooks knows he’s going to irritate you and give thrills up the leg to people who recognize it. To me, he sounds pompous.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    "Play-Dough" - funny, believable, and all-too-illuminating about the country we inhabit.

    As, come to think of it, is Brooks's reputation as a pundit.
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  90. @guest
    "McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story."

    "Story?" Don't you mean Narrative, Brookesy?

    Which Narrative are we talking about, here? I know any number of them could be called the "American Story," because to our elite the country is a Marvel Comics series, which can be 'retconned" whenever they want.

    I assume McCain was spouting boilerplate American Exceptionalism, Invade the World/Invite the World/In Hoc to the World. Plenty of Republicans stand up for that, Brookesy.

    It's fortunate, I suppose, that the rising tide of nationalism is taken to be the de facto platform of the Republican Party by a House Conservative at the NYT. I happen to know a majority are still squishy moderates leaning with the breeze. Pretending they're all budding white nationalists helps move the window.

    Pretending they’re all budding white nationalists helps move the window.

    Unlikely.

    That pretense is the choke-collar the globalists use to keep the cucks in line.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I knew I shouldn't have hyperbolized there. Just forget I said "white nationalist." Point is, the line they're choked into forming is further to the right than before. Among other reasons, that's because Brooks pretends they're already farther to the right than they are.
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  91. guest says:
    @The Man From K Street
    Also never mind that the padeia he speaks of has never been practiced outside of the Greek polises, early Roman Republic or the medieval Italian/Swiss/German republican communes that were all of course tribally homogeneous.

    The paideai of which he speaks never actually existed. It’s just an obscure way to say “civic culture.” Brooks would prefer we all think the same way, as drilled into us in the grand Blank Slate manner.

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  92. Mike342 says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Brooks can't say that immigrants must assimilate to our culture in order to become Americans. No, that would be politically incorrect, racist, and downright Nazi-like, so he forces us all to go look up his ancient Greek vocabulary word of the day, paideia.

    With this arcane word, he is implying that newcomers can just waltz across our borders, enroll in our paideia of enculturation, and thereby become part of a golden balance, a diverse excellence in which e pluribus unum meets arete. (Go look up the Greek word arete, Mr. Brooks. I learned it in Poli Sci 100.)

    Sorry Dave, cheap laborers from the third world aren't Greek philosophers. Not gonna happen.

    Jewish overuse of antique terminology betrays their low class nouveaux riche status. Yes, David, you’ve read a book at Aryan college. Its equivalent to a low class Anglo over-pronouncing French in an ironically backfired attempt to signal social status, patent leather shoes at an event that requires a “tux”, and wearing labels. I would bet that his bookshelf is full of dusty classics with unbroken spines, and that perhaps he considered “xanthippe” for the name of some creature in his household.

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    • LOL: Broski
    • Replies: @Alden
    My family calls them "jumped up shetl" Know the difference between a WASP or CAtholic old lady with a face lift and a Jewish old lady with a face lift???

    The Christian old ladies get the neck and chest done all the way down to the collar bone. And the eyes are left a bit wrinkly so they don't get so stretched they look like Asians. But unless they are actresses, Jewish old ladies get their eyes all stretched and leave their wattlly old necks undone on top the face lift.
    , @Kylie
    Excellent. Especially the part about "Xanthippe"
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  93. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    So she’s a shiksa; don’t you know that’s Job #1 for most Jooos? I don’t know any that aren’t with a shiksa, and that’s about 15 or so. They don’t have any interest in female MOT’s…..they describe it as always being wrong with them.

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  94. guest says:
    @Desiderius

    Pretending they’re all budding white nationalists helps move the window.
     
    Unlikely.

    That pretense is the choke-collar the globalists use to keep the cucks in line.

    I knew I shouldn’t have hyperbolized there. Just forget I said “white nationalist.” Point is, the line they’re choked into forming is further to the right than before. Among other reasons, that’s because Brooks pretends they’re already farther to the right than they are.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That’s a good point, though not sure how much left/right has to do with it.
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  95. guest says:
    @Selvar
    A paradox that I've noticed is that both the Alt Right and the far left have a much better grasp of American history and the nature of the American founding than center-right cuckservatives do. Howard Zinn types may loath the Historical American Nation, but at least they acknowledge that the U.S. was in fact founded as a white ethno state with non-whites either being enslaved, made into second class citizens, or ethnically cleansed. Cuckservatives on the other hand hold a view of the U.S. as being founded as a colorblind, multiracial proposition nation with some vague Enlightenment ideology and pseudo-Christian theology mixed in for good measure. In this telling, the Founding Fathers, Martin Luther King, and Ronald Reagan are all part of the same American story towards a "more perfect union" whose most noble goals are tax cuts and the continued security of Isreal.

    Seriously, it's pathetic, just pathetic, to watch cucks plead with their leftist overlords every MLK day about how "Dr.King" was really one of them and how he would not approve of contemporary minority identity politics or affirmative action (note: he would and did). The center-right cuck perspective on American history is so utterly divorced from reality and so obviously intellectually dishonest that I hold radical leftists like Howard Zinn in much higher esteem, as they are at least willing to face the historical reality about the American founding.

    I used to think Conservatism, Inc. knew better but was being strategic or just plain lying. That may be true of Brooks, who speaks with a forked tongue. Most of them, however, I think are plain ignorant.

    But what do I expect, when their mission is to protect the status quo? It’s all the better in defense of conventional opinion not to know anything beyond conventional opinion. Most people aren’t cut out to be O’Briens.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.
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  96. guest says:
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    That the egregious David Brooks includes "Sarah Palin" in his shortlist of John McCain's "scandals" is appalling! The real scandal is that once Gov. Palin started freaking out the Swamp, and indeed the McCain-Palin ticket was leading strongly in the polls immediately following her nomination— McCain felt compelled to treat her like the plague, submerging her role in the campaign. Her VP acceptance speech was brilliant —the revolt of the deplorables, years before the fact— and in light of Trump's accession to the presidency, is worth looking at once again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MwAHP0jssY

    Palin's never publicly whacking McCain for what —arguably, more than any other factor— cost him the election, speaks volumes regarding her integrity and probity.

    Yeah, but Palin didn’t even go to Harvard, and couldn’t name the magazines she read. How embarrassing for Brooks at cocktail parties!/s

    It was fun watching the Brookses and Charles Krauthammers of the world squirm over Palin, who was like a cross between Joe McCarthy, Lonesome Rhodes, and the hated beauty pageant queen (which she actually was, I guess). How insufferably gross./s

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  97. @Kyle Kopelovich
    John McCain worked his way up from nothing to become a somebody. He wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth, like Donald Trump. John McCain supports our troops because he was a soldier in Vietnam. Unlike racist Donald, who draft dodges and supports racist white people who hate foreigners...I think there is a word for that. Oh that's right. Racism. John McCain is an American hero, who rose from poverty to success, based solely on merit. John McCain if he doesn't die from AIDS cancer, should run for President in 2020 and save our country. Primary racist Donald and lets really, truly, make America Great Again!

    John McCain worked his way up from nothing to become a somebody.

    If you call being the son and grandson of 4-star admirals “nothing.”

    His not having his naval career terminated despite having crashed 2 aircraft and getting entangled in power lines with a third – all before being shot down over North Vietnam – probably had something to do with that, too – as did his not being prosecuted for having made “Tokyo Rose” styled recordings for the North Vietnamese, in violation of the code of conduct for POWs.

    McCain’s modus operandi has always been to wear false virtue on his sleeve after being caught in some discreditable behavior. Thus, for example, after having been involved in the Keating Five scandal, he promised never to Keat again, and ostentatiously postured as an advocate of campaign finance “reform.”

    There could be no better example than McCain of a “whited sepulchre” – neatly calcimined on the outside, but full of rottenness and death inside.

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  98. guest says:
    @anon
    I am against human rights.

    In what could be considered a bookend to the frankly bizarre Brooks/McCain OpEd (Paideia ???), we are lectured in the World section of todays NYTs about the horrors of a new, hybrid evil: illiberal democracy.


    YANGON, Myanmar — Nearly a decade into Myanmar’s transition out of military rule, the country’s once-celebrated transition toward democracy is hardening into something very different from what activists and world leaders had hoped for.

    Citizens select their leaders, but without the robust institutions or norms like pluralism, universal rights or tolerance necessary for democracy to function.
     

    It wasn't that long ago that Myanmar was considered as backward and oppressive as North Korea. What activists hoped for? When have activists ever been satisfied with any real world outcome?

    The civilian state, led by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, is rapidly centralizing power as checks and balances erode. It is growing oppressive in some areas and weak in others, ceding public space to extremists. Meanwhile, the military still controls important government functions and a perpetual quota of Parliament seats.
     
    She is 'our guy' .... Daw Aung San Suu Kyi ... who we awarded a Nobel Peace Prize as a brave leader resisting the totalitarian dictatorship of Myanmar's Military. But if her leadership fails to check every box on the lengthy list of requirements to quality as a true liberal democracy, she has turned heel and become a fascist.

    The country appears to be converging on a democratic-authoritarian hybrid, formally known as illiberal democracy, which often resembles mob rule. It is a version of majority rule that excludes minorities, curtails freedoms and governs arbitrarily.
     
    There are, believe it or not, 135 recognized ethnic groups in Myanmar. There are roughly 50 million people and a million or so Muslims, living on the border with Bangladesh, who have problems with the Buddhist majority in the region.

    The experts, activists, and global leaders are shocked, positively shocked that the harsh treatment of this Muslim group is actually popular among the citizens of Myanmar. There is an utter disregard for the level of poverty in that area of an generally poor country. Other experts have pointed out that it is 'not helpful' to apply terms like genocide to the conflict. But, of course, there is a global anti-genocide bureaucracy, ready and waiting to step in and call out bad behavior. They need something to do ever few years to justify their existence. It isn't simply a problem, its an opportunity to do something or do anything.

    Its a Buddhist country. We know how violent Buddhists tend to be. It's not like they are excluding all 135 recognized ethnic groups. It is a long, messy story and I won't try to summarize it. Other than to say that Myanmar argues that most of them are relatively recent arrivals (Post WW 2) and the Muslims argue that there is evidence that (at least a few of them) have lived in Myanmar for centuries.

    So back to Human Rights. It seems like every stupid thing the US has gotten itself into has had some sort of Human Rights justification. In Iraq, the big lie was WMDs, but there was a constant argument that Saddam was violating everyone's human rights. Kurds? He nuked them, no? There were others that I can't remember. Some ethnic farmers of some sort that were harmed by a hydro project.

    And on and on.

    No one asked me. But the next time someone wants me to sign a petition relating to some atrocity or another, I'm simply going to say that I don't believe in human rights.

    “formerly known as illiberal democracy”

    I’ve literally never heard that phrase before.

    Usually, when they want to differentiate between good democracy–which produces results they agree with, and satisfies groups they depend upon/patronize–and bad democracy–which gives people like me a smidgen of say, and produces results that don’t make me want to recreate society deep within the Earth’s core–they call the latter politics. As in “playing politics” or “politicizing” an issue.

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  99. guest says:
    @ThreeCranes
    Funny, I scanned McCain's speech by following the link Brooks provided and not only did I not see the word "paideia" mentioned, but I didn't see any phrase or train of thought that could be charitably construed as even tangentially related to that concept.

    From Wiki;

    "The practical aspects of this education included subjects subsumed under the modern designation of the liberal arts (rhetoric, grammar and philosophy are examples), as well as scientific disciplines like arithmetic and medicine. An ideal and successful member of the polis would possess intellectual, moral and physical refinement, so training in gymnastics and wrestling was valued for its effect on the body alongside the moral education which the Greeks believed was imparted by the study of music, poetry and philosophy. This approach to the rearing of a well-rounded Greek male was common to the Greek-speaking world, with the exception of Sparta where a rigid and militaristic form of education known as the agoge was practiced."

    Now be honest. As you read this definition did McCain come to mind? Of course not. McCain's entire piece is a tribute to his military experiences. Seems to me that McCain would better be understood as the product of the "rigid and militaristic" education that was practiced in Sparta.

    What is sacrilegious about Brooks' hallucinogenic ramblings is the criminal injustice he does to the Greeks. I mean, come on. McCain as embodying the greatest qualities of the Greeks? The mind boggles.

    I will give Brooks credit for having mastered one small piece of paideia and that is the art of Rhetoric. Unlike Logic which is concerned with accurate ordering of thought, Rhetoric is the art of persuasive speaking so as to make the worse cause appear the better--today's public relations, advertising or lawyering fit the bill. It is shysterism.

    Brooks is too (((tribal))) to be a Greek. He is everything Socrates argued against.

    Maybe “paideai” was on Brooks’ word-a-day calendar.

    Was Trump calling into question McCain’s “agoge” when he denied his heroism in being captured? What did Spartans do to citizens who collaborated with the enemy?

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  100. Nico says:
    @Anonymous

    The book’s and Jaeger’s reputation in classical philology has evaporated.
     
    Why, what happened?

    I suppose in part donors and notably (((big donors))) ordered that colleges divert funds to Chicano and LGBTQWERTY studies rather than connecting Western youths to our history because racism.

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  101. guest says:
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    What we got here is not a failure to communicate, but rather another Tiny Duck (albeit with English likely not his first language). Sen. McCain was the son and grandson (IIRC) of admirals in the US Navy.

    Can someone who used the phrase “AIDs cancer” possibly be on the level? Or was that an error in translation?

    Of course, most people assume T.D. is pulling our legs.

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  102. guest says:
    @Kyle Kopelovich
    @syonredux lol. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are also a capitalist, free-market economy without socialism. They don't organize their society in any way whatsoever. The people organize their government. Learn about what democracy is. Read a book or maybe take a community college class after (if you have the metal fortitude) you pass your GED exam.

    I lack the metal fortitude of a Superman/Uncle Joe Stalin (men of steel both). But I might have enough to get an equivalence degree. Because that involves head-butting the procter, or something like that, right?

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  103. @Colleen Pater
    Actually only white people can be rallied around ideals and this is the rub. The campus straw man he's saying is tribalist is using the cucks ideals against them al la alinsky's make the enemy live up to their own rules knowing full well this is going to be a one way enforcement. the alt right hes subtly calling nazis isnt actually against his ideals only realistic that ideal rallying is an evolutionary development of out bred europeans and like welfare states and immigration, you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.

    I’m amazed at how many leftists can’t draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we’ll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn’t see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she’s as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

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    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    Its the question of our age - what the fuck can they be thinking. well Heres what I think is going on. somewheres in the 80s-90s the left watched the soviet union collapse reagan be elected and concluded class communism was toast in high IQ productive west, however their side projects in cultural marxism meant at first to simply destabilize the west were a succeeding beyond expectations having been taken up by (((media, academia civil service,NGOs etc))) they were able not only to expand way beyond the american slaves but use colonization similarly in other nations, and of course create dozens of other victim groups as well.In fact one project the de christianization actually had a dual purpose in as much as it left a void that could fulfill the religious impulse with a pseudo christian slave morality of cultural marxism, in effect leftism replaced religion for the masses.
    At about this same time capitalists were discovering first outsourcing, and a little later as out 64 non white immigration law began to ramp up cheap immigrant labor, our democrats had a quandary being the party of organized labor immigration was a conflict but cities were rapidly browning and affirmative action lawsuits soon filled union and civil service jobs with browns and voting booths with new voters all was well, they could make common cause with capitalists without real conflict, n the meantime they had been pressuring capitalists to go along with cultural marxism as a cost of doing business or else.and capitalists were discovering globalism on an even larger scale. the the Com Cap unholy alliance was born.
    perhaps the greatest thing about this alliance is the right doesn't get it, they are still living in the 70s and cant understand capitalism is not inherently right its inherently profit minded. The right cant understand that jefferson was a left wing revolutionary and all men are not created equal, and what they think of as conservatism is really an attempt to freeze that revolution midpoint a point that shifts as the revolution advances. Thus the cuck meme. You can have enlightenment values or multiculturalism you cant have both. but of course that hate thought would be antithetical to enlightenment values, because Jefferson immediately exported his revolution to france where it got even bloodier, they in turn exported it to russia where you know (((who))) really weaponized it and tried to export it to germany who was not going to be ruled by global jewish communists even if historically socialism was bound to be the way we transitioned from serf agriculture to industrial urban life they decided to go with a national version and here we are

    Its really simple those at the top are after money and power, we live in an age where we have billionaire bolsheviks because commies are no longer a threat to capital they are partners who simply absorb some costs for a while until they can be monetized as national debts put on the legacy whites.The commies have realized they need capitalism to finance both the day to day and the looting through debt of the nations they colonize.Often these commies and capitalists are the same persons Soros Clinton Gates etal.They want to rule the world and live well synergy.

    But But you say. well first their problem is white men with high IQs and an independent streak so they are demonizing demoralizing displacing etc here in america whites are only 50% the rest of the white world is dong its best to catch up. And no the big players dont actually believe all people are created equal that islam is a religion of peace, thats religion for the masses, they will ride islam till it no longer serves them then do to it what they did to christianity which was once its religion of choice.the same for their non white brown shirts they allow to roam freely to terrorize the white who they forbid from defending themselves, once they have consolidated their new world order the blacks and browns will be returned to their cages. Or so they seem to think.

    The chinese and russians and a few others are not happy with bt parts, whites seem like maybe they are cluing in about the new dynamic.Its really hard to believe DAVOS will be able to maintain rule over this golem they summoned.Most of the west is in a pre counter revolutionary state. The problem is the people you describe, at this point the implications are just too horrible to imagine, so they say things like well theres nothing really you can do, Im sure it will work out, we cant be sure of anything, nothing can be done now, And in a sense they are right at this point in the US what has to happen is indeed pretty horrible we need to send about 100 million people home, and while it technically possible with a determined government and people to gradually incentivize people to leave voluntarily we have been divided by ((( propaganda))) and will never have the political unity to do it that way so the only way is to wait until we reach a murderous rage and do it all at once. I strongly suggest the rest of the west not let a 40% non white population sneak up on them
    , @Perspective
    Increasingly I'm finding people tend to draw conclusions based on emotional and sentimental arguments. I find I tend to have much greater success at reaching people when I say things like immigration to the west has morphed in to silent passive aggressive ethnic cleansing. If they object and say that you're being hyperbolic, simply point out the demographic projections that are taking place. This is something most people, unless they are extremely sheltered or lack situational awareness, can see over time. Reinforce the idea that all cultures and people, including the west, have a right to survive and thrive.
    , @AndrewR
    Lol. I'm trying to imagine an American family having a heated discussion about Canadian politics around the dinner table. I think you people really are way more obsessed with the US than basic geopolitical realities would require.

    While you would likely object, I think your daughter and I could probably agree on a policy of sending all the illegals in the US up to Canada and giving them Canadian citizenship.

    , @3g4me
    @103 Frau Katz: "They looked at me as if to say, yep, she’s as bad as his mother. I changed the topic."

    So your "I'm a goodwhite who doesn't use icky racial slurs" virtue signalling proved insufficient with your very own SJW daughter and you're looking for empathy/sympathy? So sorry; I'm fresh out.

    HBD: A little is not enough. If you can't apply it to yourself and your own group as well, you're merely a wannabe virtue signaller but doing a piss-poor job of it.
    , @Kylie
    Ugh. My MIL is the same as those two clueless young people. My husband repeated her latest left-wing idiocy to me yesterday and I flat out told him she was as dumb as a box of rocks.

    Nowadays I have zero tolerance for being lectured by people who are less intelligent, less educated and less experienced than I am.

    Good luck at your next family dinner.

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  104. guest says:
    @Kyle Kopelovich
    Also we are not a "Christian country" . The slaves that your ancestors brought over were mostly Muslims and they built this country. If anything, we are a Judeo-Christian country but lets not forget about the millions of Muslims who were brought here on slave ships and forcibly converted to Christianity.

    If they were forcibly converted, what is your point?

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  105. @Anonymous
    Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy. Paideia is the process by which we educate one another for citizenship. …

    I think it's interesting - although it might not be important - that the organization that Barbar Lerner Spectre founded in Sweden is called Paideia, the European Institute for Jewish Studies in Sweden, "a non-denominational academic institute established in 2001 and funded by the Swedish government," according to Wikipedia.

    Barbara Lerner's 2013 discussion of the role of Jews in promoting multi-culturalism in Europe in a video interview has been controversial. "I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role."

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ (Barbara Lerner discussing multiculturalism in Europe)

    From Miriam-Webster online dictionary:

    paideia:

    1 :training of the physical and mental faculties in such a way as to produce a broad enlightened mature outlook harmoniously combined with maximum cultural development

    2 :the ideal development envisioned or attained by paideia

    She’s crazy. Or stupid. Muslims (believing ones, at least) are taught by the Koran and Hadith to dislike all infidels but Jews especially because they fought against Mohammad in Mecca.

    There are contradictory passages in the Koran. The Koran is two books in one: the first in Mecca, the seconal part after Mohammed was chased out and went to Medina.

    The first part can sound quite reasonable in places. But, Islamic scholars say the later text abrogates the Mecca writings.

    Any Jew ignoring or sugar coating this will get an unpleasant surprise. It’s already started. Only leftists are blind to it.

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  106. Mr. Anon says:

    I have come to find it odd that conservatives (even real conservatives, let alone merely nominal ones like David Brooks) deem tribal affiliation (i.e. ethnic or racial identity) as somehow illegitimate. Where does this idea come from? A lot of “who you are” is derived from your family. A lot of “who you are” is derived from your ethnic group – from your tribe. You probably share more in common with that group than you do with a group of people with whom you just happen to share residency in a multi-cultural country. My identity – not how I personally identify, but how I really am – has a lot more to do with being a descendent of europeans than with living in America.

    When did conservatives decide that whatever propositions you espouse are more important than whom you share an ethnicity with? It is a strange notion for someone who presumably that you are an organic being and not a social construct.

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    "Where does this idea come from?"

    I think it's a symptom of hyper-Enlightenment-ism.
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  107. @Anonymous
    Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy. Paideia is the process by which we educate one another for citizenship. …

    I think it's interesting - although it might not be important - that the organization that Barbar Lerner Spectre founded in Sweden is called Paideia, the European Institute for Jewish Studies in Sweden, "a non-denominational academic institute established in 2001 and funded by the Swedish government," according to Wikipedia.

    Barbara Lerner's 2013 discussion of the role of Jews in promoting multi-culturalism in Europe in a video interview has been controversial. "I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role."

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ (Barbara Lerner discussing multiculturalism in Europe)

    From Miriam-Webster online dictionary:

    paideia:

    1 :training of the physical and mental faculties in such a way as to produce a broad enlightened mature outlook harmoniously combined with maximum cultural development

    2 :the ideal development envisioned or attained by paideia

    That video is unbelievable. It has 1K up votes and 3K down votes plus some great comments. Everyone should go and add their down vote.

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  108. Danindc says:
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I despise the Bush clan more by the day. Not a word of negativity during the 8 years of the white hating Obama regime. It has taken him less than one year for the dim-witted W to attack Trump.

    So much for the "it is beneath the dignity of the office for a prior President to criticize the current President" garbage we heard from the Bushes during Obama's two terms.

    Agreed but his little brother was completely humiliated by Trump. So it’s understandable…

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  109. guest says:
    @Mr. Anon
    I have come to find it odd that conservatives (even real conservatives, let alone merely nominal ones like David Brooks) deem tribal affiliation (i.e. ethnic or racial identity) as somehow illegitimate. Where does this idea come from? A lot of "who you are" is derived from your family. A lot of "who you are" is derived from your ethnic group - from your tribe. You probably share more in common with that group than you do with a group of people with whom you just happen to share residency in a multi-cultural country. My identity - not how I personally identify, but how I really am - has a lot more to do with being a descendent of europeans than with living in America.

    When did conservatives decide that whatever propositions you espouse are more important than whom you share an ethnicity with? It is a strange notion for someone who presumably that you are an organic being and not a social construct.

    “Where does this idea come from?”

    I think it’s a symptom of hyper-Enlightenment-ism.

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  110. black sea says:
    @anon
    Jorge,

    Are you sure you are sober? I don't understand what you are trying to say.

    This guy used to comment at Lion of the Blogosphere. A complete head case.

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  111. Mr. Anon says:

    … Second, McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story. Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

    Or in McCain’s case…………..war. Perhaps others have forgotten – I have not – how back in 2008, John McCain was saying that we might have to be militarily involved in the middle-east for a hundred years. That’s a hell of a campaign pledge. If King Edward III had had to stand for election, do you think he would have won the crown by promising in his stump speeches that he’d plunge England into a Hundred Years War?

    McCains’ platform was about as inspiring as that of Performance H. Wilson:

    News from the Year 2137

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  112. @Jim Given
    It is always charming to be hectored about being tribal by a deeply provincial man like David Brooks, totally loyal to his tribe.

    Would be utopias, i.e., societies founded around loyalty to ideas - those certainly have a wonderful, successful history. The names Goebbels, Lenin, and Mao come to mind.

    For any tribe, a long run of successes means never having to rethink your basic ideas or strategies.
    For many such people, this is still the year 1960, an important time for a renewed emphasis on the central founding idea of America - Tolerance, believe it or not. I think the notion that America had consensus ideas was easier to push when America had (largely) a political and cultural consensus. Why did smashing that consensus ever seem like a good idea to the Ruling Class?

    I agree that uniting around ideals has a bad track record. In fact, I’m trying to think of a counter example.

    The US is all that comes to mind, and it was far more homogeneous then than now.

    And it was not an upheaval like the French Revolution or the Bolsheviks. It was more of a break-away thing: tell the Brits get lost, we can run our own affairs. It was completely different than, say, Communism.

    The increasingly “multicultural” West will survive for now. But it would currently be incapable of dealing with something like WW II. It assumes that future will always be as good as it is now.

    The Greens are crazy about many things, but they’re correct about how much we are stressing the environment now, never mind after a doubling of Africa’s population.

    Things could could get ugly quickly. Those still grouped by ethnicity (I think it’s more than religion) will have a clear advantage.

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  113. pyrrhus says:

    Perhaps we could petition to deport both (((Brooks))) and (((Stephens))) to Greece, where they might feel more comfortable and their pretentious nonsense would go unnoticed.

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  114. BB753 says:
    @Tribe Club
    So...shouldnt organize around tribe.... Odd idea for Brooks to expound... Maybe what he means: "This is tribe club. Nobody talks about tribe club."

    It seems to me that Stephens/Brooks are offended by white people that talk about "tribe club."

    Of course, for an ethnocentric Jew, even one posing as a “citizenist” conservative like Brooks, non-Jews having their own clubs is a threat. They’re not supposed to have their own clubs, particularly not golf clubs (golfocaust!). In his mind, Gentiles are always a second away from a pogrom and going full Cossack on their Jewish asses.

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  115. @anon
    I am against human rights.

    In what could be considered a bookend to the frankly bizarre Brooks/McCain OpEd (Paideia ???), we are lectured in the World section of todays NYTs about the horrors of a new, hybrid evil: illiberal democracy.


    YANGON, Myanmar — Nearly a decade into Myanmar’s transition out of military rule, the country’s once-celebrated transition toward democracy is hardening into something very different from what activists and world leaders had hoped for.

    Citizens select their leaders, but without the robust institutions or norms like pluralism, universal rights or tolerance necessary for democracy to function.
     

    It wasn't that long ago that Myanmar was considered as backward and oppressive as North Korea. What activists hoped for? When have activists ever been satisfied with any real world outcome?

    The civilian state, led by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, is rapidly centralizing power as checks and balances erode. It is growing oppressive in some areas and weak in others, ceding public space to extremists. Meanwhile, the military still controls important government functions and a perpetual quota of Parliament seats.
     
    She is 'our guy' .... Daw Aung San Suu Kyi ... who we awarded a Nobel Peace Prize as a brave leader resisting the totalitarian dictatorship of Myanmar's Military. But if her leadership fails to check every box on the lengthy list of requirements to quality as a true liberal democracy, she has turned heel and become a fascist.

    The country appears to be converging on a democratic-authoritarian hybrid, formally known as illiberal democracy, which often resembles mob rule. It is a version of majority rule that excludes minorities, curtails freedoms and governs arbitrarily.
     
    There are, believe it or not, 135 recognized ethnic groups in Myanmar. There are roughly 50 million people and a million or so Muslims, living on the border with Bangladesh, who have problems with the Buddhist majority in the region.

    The experts, activists, and global leaders are shocked, positively shocked that the harsh treatment of this Muslim group is actually popular among the citizens of Myanmar. There is an utter disregard for the level of poverty in that area of an generally poor country. Other experts have pointed out that it is 'not helpful' to apply terms like genocide to the conflict. But, of course, there is a global anti-genocide bureaucracy, ready and waiting to step in and call out bad behavior. They need something to do ever few years to justify their existence. It isn't simply a problem, its an opportunity to do something or do anything.

    Its a Buddhist country. We know how violent Buddhists tend to be. It's not like they are excluding all 135 recognized ethnic groups. It is a long, messy story and I won't try to summarize it. Other than to say that Myanmar argues that most of them are relatively recent arrivals (Post WW 2) and the Muslims argue that there is evidence that (at least a few of them) have lived in Myanmar for centuries.

    So back to Human Rights. It seems like every stupid thing the US has gotten itself into has had some sort of Human Rights justification. In Iraq, the big lie was WMDs, but there was a constant argument that Saddam was violating everyone's human rights. Kurds? He nuked them, no? There were others that I can't remember. Some ethnic farmers of some sort that were harmed by a hydro project.

    And on and on.

    No one asked me. But the next time someone wants me to sign a petition relating to some atrocity or another, I'm simply going to say that I don't believe in human rights.

    Fareed Zakaria wrote a book on “illiberal democracy.” I read it a number of years ago. It was the first time I’d heard of Zakaria.

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it’s hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.

    You’re completely right about Myanmar. It has a unbelievable number of ethnicities. There are even some that converted to Christianity.

    But they’re currently united around getting the Rohingya to move back to Bangladesh. Myanmar is a clear example of how multiculturalism simply doesn’t work.

    It started fragmenting soon after the Brits left post WW II. Within a few years, various groups were fighting each other over having their own homelands (this was the case even without considering the Rohingya).

    It became completely nonfunctional and a dictatorship ensued. Zakaria argued that in some cases, this is preferable.

    https://www.amazon.com/Future-Freedom-Illiberal-Democracy-Revised-ebook/dp/B000WJOW6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508570034&sr=8-1&keywords=illiberal+democracies

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    • Replies: @anon
    Correct. The book followed an article in Foreign Policy with the same idea.

    There also seems to be a boomlet in referring to the US -- because of Trump -- as an illiberal democracy. This is mostly rhetoric. The 'heckler's veto' has been used in a national election -- when Trump tried to hold a rally in Chicago. It happened before during the Vietnam era when LBJ and Nixon couldn't speak at an event open to the general public. I think its the terror induced when globalists realize that civic nationalism is actually popular. Then the majority becomes a mob.

    How about. China, our largest trading partner? They don't bother with voting, but I suppose they are ok because they have nukes. And this ... "without the robust institutions or norms like pluralism, universal rights or tolerance necessary for democracy to function." The country was locked down tight. Exactly when were these robust institutions supposed to be built?

    The Rohingya situation is a mess and hasn't been handled well, but the lack of perspective is staggering. Myanmar was our only success in decades at a partial regime change, peeling a country away from China, and moving away from totalitarianism -- and without warfare or US Troops or other 'help'. But virtue signaling is more important than -- for example -- winning. A partial victory is turned into utter failure. Not to mention that 'voting them off the island' sounds democratic to me. Bangladesh won't take them, but they should. They have the various highland tribes who present a very difficult problem so if they decide to simply kick out troublesome Muslims, so what?

    , @Mr. Anon

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it’s hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.
     
    Can you be sure that he wrote them? He does have a history on that score:

    Columnist Fareed Zakaria faces new accusations of plagiarism

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  116. Pericles says:
    @Stealth
    It's interesting that Brooks mentions John McCain. I've always thought of them, at the same time, as two people who are probably despised by everyone, because they have basically nothing to offer anybody. Both nominal conservatives, they've spent their careers betraying conservative vote. Brooks is probably motivated by higher loyalties, but McCain is truly shameless. John McCain has always been ready to sell out to liberals who dote on him when they need him and crap on him when they don't.

    It’s interesting that Brooks mentions John McCain. I’ve always thought of them, at the same time, … because they have basically nothing to offer anybody.

    Excellent point.

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  117. @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    I don’t view citizenism as a viable long term strategy, but Steve Bannon just made good arguments for citizenism as the way to hold our current coalition together.

    http://www.breitbart.com/california/2017/10/20/bannon-fire-ca-three-standing-ovations-gop-convention-keynote/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29

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  118. Anonym says:
    @Aristippus
    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here's a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave "boy". Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.

    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here’s a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave “boy”. Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.

    Now that’s a definition the Podestas can really get behind! Spirit cooking at the Paideai.

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  119. Pericles says:
    @Aristippus
    I just had to pull out my Liddell-Scott to make sure about this. Here's a certain irony about paideai, the word pais is Greek for boy/child, but also can be used for slave similar to calling a slave "boy". Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves. It really activates my almonds getting to hear what the aristoi think of the kakoi.

    Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves.

    Oddly enough, Paideia is also the name of Barbara Lerner Spectre’s tax funded center in Stockholm. BLS is the Jewish ‘Europe will become multicultural whether you like it or not, but you will like it’ woman you can see on youtube.

    More formally known as the European Institute for Jewish Studies in Sweden. As a tax payer, I somehow feel cucked just by the name.

    http://www.paideia-eu.org/

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Paideia staff (this is a Swedish tax funded institute in Stockholm, remember).

    Prof. Fania Oz-Salzberger, Director of Paideia
    ... Fania was raised in Kibbutz Hulda on modern Hebrew culture ...

    Barbara Lerner Spectre, Founding Director of Paideia
    ... She was formerly on the faculty of the Shalom Hartman Institute of Jerusalem, where she taught Jewish Thought ...

    Erik Gribbe, Director of the Paideia Project-Incubator, Paideia Paradigm Program Coordinator
    ... His previous background is in the performing arts, as a dancer at the Royal Swedish Ballet for ten years. [Judging by the name, this guy could actually be Swedish. Probably not heterosexual though.]

    Frida Schatz, Hebrew Lecturer and Dean of Students
    ... Coming to Sweden from Israel, she has held positions as ...

    Ivana Koutníková, Project Coordinator
    ... She studied Jewish studies and German studies at Palacký University, in Olomouc, the Czech Republic. She holds a diploma in Jewish studies, German studies and History. ... has experience in studying abroad: Israel and Austria. ...

    Dr. Lukasz Gorniok, Paideia One Year Jewish Studies Program Coordinator
    ... He has focused on the history of Polish Jews and Czechoslovaks in Sweden. He is also on the board of the Forum for Jewish Studies at Uppsala University.

    Noa Hermele, Deputy Director of Paideia, Rector of Paideia folkhögskola
    ... Noa also worked as supplement teacher in the Jewish day school in Stockholm and has put together and conducted a leadership program for young adults in the Jewish community. In addition to philosophy, logic and mathematics, he is interested in Yiddish and Arabic studies. ...

    This raises a couple of questions. Why the hell are the Swedes paying for a Jewish sinecure program? (Remembering what BLS is teaching the goyim makes it even worse.) And how did all these rootless cosmopolitans converge upon Stockholm in the first place?

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  120. Thomas says:

    What a joke this Strange New Respect for the old neocons is! (Dubya, as well as McCain.) McCain couldn’t seem to find an idea to run on for President nine years other than maybe waving tire gauges and his own biography, and the voters gave him the most convincing rejection since the similar Bob Dole 12 years earlier. He’s gotten to see now someone who actually did have ideas, and who finally was willing to give the vainglorious Cult of St. John of Hanoi the reality check it deserved, win the battle he was too timid to fight. All of the ideas that McCain has stood for: campaign finance reform, neoconservatism, and cucky bipartisanship (aka, “the Maverick”) have been consigned to the ash heap of history. Soon, McCain himself (who was always really the only cause he stood for) will be gone. And nothing will be left. A footnote.

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  121. @Kyle Kopelovich
    @ARISTIPPUS I doubt you ever went to college because you seem like a low iq white. Why are you stalking your imaginary professors and their children? Weirdo.

    Boooooorrriinnnggg…

    Another commenter to join Tiny Duck and Corvinus on the ignore list…

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  122. Pericles says:
    @Pericles

    Paideai, can be taken as meaning we have to educate our fellow citizens, but implies that citizens, the politai, are either children or slaves.

     

    Oddly enough, Paideia is also the name of Barbara Lerner Spectre's tax funded center in Stockholm. BLS is the Jewish 'Europe will become multicultural whether you like it or not, but you will like it' woman you can see on youtube.

    More formally known as the European Institute for Jewish Studies in Sweden. As a tax payer, I somehow feel cucked just by the name.

    http://www.paideia-eu.org/

    Paideia staff (this is a Swedish tax funded institute in Stockholm, remember).

    Prof. Fania Oz-Salzberger, Director of Paideia
    … Fania was raised in Kibbutz Hulda on modern Hebrew culture …

    Barbara Lerner Spectre, Founding Director of Paideia
    … She was formerly on the faculty of the Shalom Hartman Institute of Jerusalem, where she taught Jewish Thought …

    Erik Gribbe, Director of the Paideia Project-Incubator, Paideia Paradigm Program Coordinator
    … His previous background is in the performing arts, as a dancer at the Royal Swedish Ballet for ten years. [Judging by the name, this guy could actually be Swedish. Probably not heterosexual though.]

    Frida Schatz, Hebrew Lecturer and Dean of Students
    … Coming to Sweden from Israel, she has held positions as …

    Ivana Koutníková, Project Coordinator
    … She studied Jewish studies and German studies at Palacký University, in Olomouc, the Czech Republic. She holds a diploma in Jewish studies, German studies and History. … has experience in studying abroad: Israel and Austria. …

    Dr. Lukasz Gorniok, Paideia One Year Jewish Studies Program Coordinator
    … He has focused on the history of Polish Jews and Czechoslovaks in Sweden. He is also on the board of the Forum for Jewish Studies at Uppsala University.

    Noa Hermele, Deputy Director of Paideia, Rector of Paideia folkhögskola
    … Noa also worked as supplement teacher in the Jewish day school in Stockholm and has put together and conducted a leadership program for young adults in the Jewish community. In addition to philosophy, logic and mathematics, he is interested in Yiddish and Arabic studies. …

    This raises a couple of questions. Why the hell are the Swedes paying for a Jewish sinecure program? (Remembering what BLS is teaching the goyim makes it even worse.) And how did all these rootless cosmopolitans converge upon Stockholm in the first place?

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  123. @guest
    I used to think Conservatism, Inc. knew better but was being strategic or just plain lying. That may be true of Brooks, who speaks with a forked tongue. Most of them, however, I think are plain ignorant.

    But what do I expect, when their mission is to protect the status quo? It's all the better in defense of conventional opinion not to know anything beyond conventional opinion. Most people aren't cut out to be O'Briens.

    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Does anyone still go on those things? I wouldn't if it were free.
    , @Art Deco
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    Lowry has (perhaps because the market is like that) failed to recruit anyone engaging for more than 15 years. His more scholarly contributors (Thomas Sowell, Victor Davis Hanson, Mackubin Thomas Owens, and Stanley Kurtz) have gradually drifted away over the years, as have most of the wits (Meghan Cox Gurdon, Florence King, Mark Steyn). They're not been replaced with anyone you'd recall. The odd exception is Kevin Williamson, who is paid a princely sum to make asinine statements. The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.
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  124. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    I agree, just citizenship is weak tea compared to either tribe or words. Race or ethnic group are historically powerful, as to an extent have been religious ideas (especially if you include communism as a religion).

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  125. eah says:

    Marc Faber Responds To Racism Accusations

    I think that to try to deny the fact that the western white man made America great is just not right and for that reason I was attacked very badly

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    • Replies: @eah
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DM4Wk8qWkAIWZ70.jpg
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  126. guest says:
    @Dr. X

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history...
     
    So, let's see here... then why isn't it a "menacing temptation" for the Jews to "organize people by ethnic tribe"?

    Pretty hypocritical statement coming from a Member of the Tribe whose son joined the IDF to fight for the tribal territory of Israel, instead of joining the USMC....

    I was opposed to multiculturalism because it was a conspiracy against my culture, not because it put ethnicity over (protean) ideals. I opposed leftists “identity politics” because I oppose the left, not because there’s something wrong with having an identity.

    Conservatism, Inc. has itself a grab-bag ideology, mostly warmed-over leftism. They like to pretend these ideas are self-evident truths for the agesruths, or at least cornerstone truths of American and/or Western Civilization. Because that’s the conservative pose. But really, they’re making it up as they go. Which explains why the ideas are always changing. (I’m not going to check, but I assume there have already been articles about how tranny rights is a conservative cause, and that mixed bathrooms are as American as apple pie.)

    All along, they’ve been relying on people who disagree with them. Paleoconservatives, for one. Traditional identitarians and American cultural supremacists as well. Countless groups of people who identify with groups smaller than the entire human race.

    Now that “tribalists,” or people who take nationalism seriously, are ascendant, of course they pretend they’re leftists, or something. Not true conservatives. Because if they are, then what’s the point in paying Brooks a salary?

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  127. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Frau Katze
    Fareed Zakaria wrote a book on "illiberal democracy." I read it a number of years ago. It was the first time I'd heard of Zakaria.

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it's hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.

    You're completely right about Myanmar. It has a unbelievable number of ethnicities. There are even some that converted to Christianity.

    But they're currently united around getting the Rohingya to move back to Bangladesh. Myanmar is a clear example of how multiculturalism simply doesn't work.

    It started fragmenting soon after the Brits left post WW II. Within a few years, various groups were fighting each other over having their own homelands (this was the case even without considering the Rohingya).

    It became completely nonfunctional and a dictatorship ensued. Zakaria argued that in some cases, this is preferable.

    https://www.amazon.com/Future-Freedom-Illiberal-Democracy-Revised-ebook/dp/B000WJOW6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508570034&sr=8-1&keywords=illiberal+democracies

    Correct. The book followed an article in Foreign Policy with the same idea.

    There also seems to be a boomlet in referring to the US — because of Trump — as an illiberal democracy. This is mostly rhetoric. The ‘heckler’s veto’ has been used in a national election — when Trump tried to hold a rally in Chicago. It happened before during the Vietnam era when LBJ and Nixon couldn’t speak at an event open to the general public. I think its the terror induced when globalists realize that civic nationalism is actually popular. Then the majority becomes a mob.

    How about. China, our largest trading partner? They don’t bother with voting, but I suppose they are ok because they have nukes. And this … “without the robust institutions or norms like pluralism, universal rights or tolerance necessary for democracy to function.” The country was locked down tight. Exactly when were these robust institutions supposed to be built?

    The Rohingya situation is a mess and hasn’t been handled well, but the lack of perspective is staggering. Myanmar was our only success in decades at a partial regime change, peeling a country away from China, and moving away from totalitarianism — and without warfare or US Troops or other ‘help’. But virtue signaling is more important than — for example — winning. A partial victory is turned into utter failure. Not to mention that ‘voting them off the island’ sounds democratic to me. Bangladesh won’t take them, but they should. They have the various highland tribes who present a very difficult problem so if they decide to simply kick out troublesome Muslims, so what?

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  128. MEH 0910 says:
    @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Damn, already used my LOL button!

    http://www.unz.com/masthead/#comments-policy

    In addition, frequent commenters who have checked that box are allowed to leave Agree/Disagree/LOL/Troll indicators on other comments, though no more than once per hour.

    After an hour you can use the LOL button again. You may have to refresh the page.

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    • Replies: @Je Suis Charlie Martel
    Thanks!
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  129. @Anonymous

    The book’s and Jaeger’s reputation in classical philology has evaporated.
     
    Why, what happened?

    What happened is that classicists woke up and noticed that Jaeger in 3 volumes didn’t say anything specific enough about as yet unexplained puzzles in this or that text. So when someone writes a paper about problem x, they don’t cite what Jaeger said about problem x because he didn’t say anything about problem x. I met the man once at sherry party at Harvard. He asked me what I was “working on.” I muttered something about the relationship of Hesiod to Aeschylus. He replied “But I thought my student Solmsen had already dealt with that.” One of my first experiences of being put down by the high and mighty, but not my last.

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  130. Don’t forget it was David Brooks who concluded his review of Ta-Nehisi Coates’s book, Between the World and Me, an anti-white diatribe by an angry black man by asking himself if he, “as a white man has the moral standing to question any part of it?”, the same David Brooks, by the way, who after interviewing then Presidential candidate, Barack Obama back in those halcyon days of “Hope and Change” wrote: “I remember distinctly an image of–we were sitting on his couches, and I was looking at his pant leg and his perfectly creased pant … and I’m thinking, a) he’s going to be president and b) he’ll be a very good president.”

    See also: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2015/08/thomas-jefferson-and-grievance-mongers.html

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    "couches"?

    More evidence that Brooks is indeed lower class.
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  131. @John Derbyshire

    It’s odd and a bit insulting. A Jew has to borrow an Aryan Greek concept to deliver a lecture to gentile Aryans on the subject of how to rear their children.

    I have a minor in classics, attended college in Greece and have traveled through a good part of Greece, from Thessaloniki to Crete. I’ve pored over many display cases in numerous museums, studied their art history both in the classroom and first hand, walked amidst the ruins of their temples and public buildings, read and reread the dramatists, politicians, philosophers and historians. It got to where I could date any piece of pottery or work of art to within 25-50 years just by looking at it.

    A Jew has no business commenting about Greek civilization except as an outside observer. Judaism and Greek civilization are as incompatible as oil and water. They come from a different place in the human psyche and tend towards different places. To use Aristotle’s phrasing, they differ in their Causes.

    Materially, they are of different genetic heritage.

    Formally, the Greeks were democratic in their city states, while the Jews were and are an autocratic, patrician, Theocratic people.

    Finally, the Greeks sought Arete–Virtue (in the sense of paideia above)–while the Jew (ever the wheedler who thinks he got the bad end of a deal) wants to force Yahweh to uphold his end of the bargain.

    No Jew should ever, ever invoke a Greek concept or cultural trait in taking down a Gentile. Know thyself, David. Stick to your sling, your stone and your Giant. Through the lens of your rudimentary civilization and your people’s puerile superstitions you cannot even begin to comprehend the wonder that was Greece.

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    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    Bravo, just bravo.
    , @Anonymouse
    Wow! A wannabe classicist and a jew hater, 1 and the same. Has anyone tabulated the percentage of jew hate comments in serious blogs? About jew hate: it seems that that opinion waxes and wanes as all climates of opinion might be expected to. My sense is that jew hate abated after WW II and reached its nadir after those plucky Israelis fought and won the Six Day War in 1967. Afterwards, it grew back, like an intractable weed, presumably in step with a growing resentment of the ongoing economic success of the state of Israel and of individual jews all over the world whose gift for making money is a continual astonishment.

    Another explanation of burgeoning jew hate from otherwise sensible people is their sensible resentment at the predominance of American jewish journalists and public voices of the anti-patriotic left. I googled "top left-wing journalists" and found a list from the Daily Beast of the top 25 lefties. Of those no less than 15 were jews. The Daily Beast also provided a list of the top right-wing journalists. Of those only 4 were jews, 1 of them dead (Andrew Breitbart), 1 of them David Brooks who is actually an anti-patriotic globalist and doesn't rightfully belong on that list.

    As 1 of ((them)), I am personally concerned about the dynamics of jew hate. Is it growing? Some interested individual or entity should survey the comment sections of online major media and the serious blogs on an ongoing basis to detect how jew hate is trending.
    , @Cagey Beast
    True. I remember the coolly dispassionate, militantly secular French encyclopedia I had in high school listed Jesus and his Apostles each as a "Hellenized Jew". The point being was that Christianity was rightly considered a Hellenizing heresy of Judaism. The internet neo-pagans say Christianity corrupted Europe with Judaism but the case is far stronger that Christianity is the result of Indo-European civilization "corrupting" Judaism.
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  132. neutral says:

    If McCains state ends up having the demographics of California then he will not be voted for, it’s really that simple. Liberals know this, alt right types know this, yet somehow the Republicans are too stupid to be aware of this basic fact. It’s either that or they are too scared to ever utter this truth.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    The weird thing is, the Republican establishment doesn't seem to care that demographic trends spell its doom. Why? Is it because the GOPe has no real commitment to the policies it espouses? Is it because individuals in the establishment figure they can always retire to a comfortable sinecure somewhere as long as they mouth the establishment line? Is it because at the establishment level the parties have no important differences anyway? I think the answers to all those questions is "yes."
    , @Stealth
    McCain doesn't care. He is concerned neither with the future of the country nor the fate of his political party, just like all the other fake Republicans. They're fully aware that they're destroying both. All they want is to enrich themselves on the way down - kind of like the guys at Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers (if I'm remembering all that correctly).
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  133. bomag says:
    @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they’re all nominally citizens of a country.

    But today’s technologically advanced states were all once strongly organized around race, religion, and culture; those aspects are crumbling away in the face of making a buck, and the universalist’s squawking for the care and feeding of refugees.

    We need some bulwark against the entropic regression to subsistence living. Citizenism is as good as anything else being floated.

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  134. In support of my comment above…

    The definition of paideia includes training in wrestling, gymnastics, and music to give strength and rhythmic harmony to the body. The Greeks were training the whole man. Think of the balance and poise of The Discus Thrower.

    Can anyone show me anything in Hebraic civilization that comes even remotely close to this in intent? Anything in painting, sculpture, architecture? No, because there isn’t anything there; no tangible, material or touchable thing that expresses the beautiful, graceful, strong or tender.

    No, instead of all this, the Hebrews created a covenant with their tribal deity. A contract. A business deal. And then got pissed off because Yahweh didn’t keep up his end of the bargain. And they’ve been pissed off ever since and have taken it out on the rest of us.

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    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    The Discus Thrower has decent shoulders, but many of us have shoulders quite similar.

    Take a look at the shoulders on the crew gal rowers from the University of Miami. These beautiful broads have some serious shoulders.

    The 53rd Head Of The Charles regatta is now on. Credit must be given to the rowers who compete, I imagine it is more grueling than it looks to row those boats as fast as they do.

    I don't care who wins the races, as long as it's not any of those snots from an Ivy League college.

    Crew Ladies with some serious shoulders:

    https://twitter.com/CanesRowing/status/919568572627718144
    , @Old Palo Altan
    You are correct about Judaism, but wrong about the individual Jew.

    If one amongst them abandons his tribal loyalty and adheres to the West (which means to Greece as its font) then he can be a welcome part of the conversation.

    Otherwise not, as you say.
    , @inertial
    I take it you are of the Greek extraction yourself, and not one of those Hyperborean barbarians whom the ancient Greeks considered barely human?
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  135. @Frau Katze
    I'm amazed at how many leftists can't draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we'll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn't see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she's as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

    Its the question of our age – what the fuck can they be thinking. well Heres what I think is going on. somewheres in the 80s-90s the left watched the soviet union collapse reagan be elected and concluded class communism was toast in high IQ productive west, however their side projects in cultural marxism meant at first to simply destabilize the west were a succeeding beyond expectations having been taken up by (((media, academia civil service,NGOs etc))) they were able not only to expand way beyond the american slaves but use colonization similarly in other nations, and of course create dozens of other victim groups as well.In fact one project the de christianization actually had a dual purpose in as much as it left a void that could fulfill the religious impulse with a pseudo christian slave morality of cultural marxism, in effect leftism replaced religion for the masses.
    At about this same time capitalists were discovering first outsourcing, and a little later as out 64 non white immigration law began to ramp up cheap immigrant labor, our democrats had a quandary being the party of organized labor immigration was a conflict but cities were rapidly browning and affirmative action lawsuits soon filled union and civil service jobs with browns and voting booths with new voters all was well, they could make common cause with capitalists without real conflict, n the meantime they had been pressuring capitalists to go along with cultural marxism as a cost of doing business or else.and capitalists were discovering globalism on an even larger scale. the the Com Cap unholy alliance was born.
    perhaps the greatest thing about this alliance is the right doesn’t get it, they are still living in the 70s and cant understand capitalism is not inherently right its inherently profit minded. The right cant understand that jefferson was a left wing revolutionary and all men are not created equal, and what they think of as conservatism is really an attempt to freeze that revolution midpoint a point that shifts as the revolution advances. Thus the cuck meme. You can have enlightenment values or multiculturalism you cant have both. but of course that hate thought would be antithetical to enlightenment values, because Jefferson immediately exported his revolution to france where it got even bloodier, they in turn exported it to russia where you know (((who))) really weaponized it and tried to export it to germany who was not going to be ruled by global jewish communists even if historically socialism was bound to be the way we transitioned from serf agriculture to industrial urban life they decided to go with a national version and here we are

    [MORE]

    Its really simple those at the top are after money and power, we live in an age where we have billionaire bolsheviks because commies are no longer a threat to capital they are partners who simply absorb some costs for a while until they can be monetized as national debts put on the legacy whites.The commies have realized they need capitalism to finance both the day to day and the looting through debt of the nations they colonize.Often these commies and capitalists are the same persons Soros Clinton Gates etal.They want to rule the world and live well synergy.

    But But you say. well first their problem is white men with high IQs and an independent streak so they are demonizing demoralizing displacing etc here in america whites are only 50% the rest of the white world is dong its best to catch up. And no the big players dont actually believe all people are created equal that islam is a religion of peace, thats religion for the masses, they will ride islam till it no longer serves them then do to it what they did to christianity which was once its religion of choice.the same for their non white brown shirts they allow to roam freely to terrorize the white who they forbid from defending themselves, once they have consolidated their new world order the blacks and browns will be returned to their cages. Or so they seem to think.

    The chinese and russians and a few others are not happy with bt parts, whites seem like maybe they are cluing in about the new dynamic.Its really hard to believe DAVOS will be able to maintain rule over this golem they summoned.Most of the west is in a pre counter revolutionary state. The problem is the people you describe, at this point the implications are just too horrible to imagine, so they say things like well theres nothing really you can do, Im sure it will work out, we cant be sure of anything, nothing can be done now, And in a sense they are right at this point in the US what has to happen is indeed pretty horrible we need to send about 100 million people home, and while it technically possible with a determined government and people to gradually incentivize people to leave voluntarily we have been divided by ((( propaganda))) and will never have the political unity to do it that way so the only way is to wait until we reach a murderous rage and do it all at once. I strongly suggest the rest of the west not let a 40% non white population sneak up on them

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  136. @Frau Katze
    I'm amazed at how many leftists can't draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we'll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn't see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she's as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

    Increasingly I’m finding people tend to draw conclusions based on emotional and sentimental arguments. I find I tend to have much greater success at reaching people when I say things like immigration to the west has morphed in to silent passive aggressive ethnic cleansing. If they object and say that you’re being hyperbolic, simply point out the demographic projections that are taking place. This is something most people, unless they are extremely sheltered or lack situational awareness, can see over time. Reinforce the idea that all cultures and people, including the west, have a right to survive and thrive.

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    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    There's still a huge background you need. I didn't leave leftist thought in one day, It took a lot reading and studying, plus it needs the internet since a lot of it isn't even in books.

    For example, one vlogger I used to listen to, decided to investigate the claims of "white supremacists.".

    He got info from some cooperative biologists who naturally pointed him in all the wrong directions.

    I left a comment saying, read The Bell Curve.

    He likely ignored the comment, as there's been no progress. In his last effort, he got 5K downvotes and likely lost his paying viewers. He's been quiet for a while.
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  137. Lurker says:

    Saw this the other day:

    “There’s only one thing I like about John McCain but the doctors are trying to kill it with radiation.”

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    • LOL: AndrewR
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  138. AndrewR says:
    @Wilkey
    Except that open borders and multiculturalism were not our ideals for the first, oh, 80% of our history - and even more than that if you count the 180 years of Anglo-American settlement prior to the ratification of the Constitution. From 1607-1965 we were emphatically a white, European and overwhemingly Christian country, without apology. Of course nothing important happened in the United States prior to 1965, so it's understandable that we'd want to forget that period of our history.

    Good god. Open borders and Multiculturalism 1.0 were absolutely part of US history around the turn of the 20th century. The foreign-born population in 1910 was over 14% – even more than today.

    While most of those people were “white, Christian and European”, the differences between these groups and between the WASP groups that had come before was immense and could only seem insignificant to someone without any real historical perspective.

    Obviously I’m not saying that Somali and Guatemalan immigrants today are just like Irish and Italian immigrants in 1880, but your characterization of this country before 1965 is astoundingly crude and sophomoric.

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  139. AndrewR says:
    @Frau Katze
    I'm amazed at how many leftists can't draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we'll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn't see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she's as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

    Lol. I’m trying to imagine an American family having a heated discussion about Canadian politics around the dinner table. I think you people really are way more obsessed with the US than basic geopolitical realities would require.

    While you would likely object, I think your daughter and I could probably agree on a policy of sending all the illegals in the US up to Canada and giving them Canadian citizenship.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Why, how generous of you to offer this valued pool of talent to Canada!

    Don't give Trudope any ideas.

    He's down in the polls. But like Republicans, count on the Conservatives to be unable to field a decent candidate.

    I'm pretty sure there is no Canadian Trump.

    The third parties are the way to go, as we see in Europe, but you need proportional representation. Trudope campaigned on it but now seems to have lost interest,

    And yes, we Canadians certainly follow US politics.

    My parents did too, back when Trudope The Elder was in power. What the US does often has a big effect on Canada.

    Maybe other families are different. My sister follows it too.
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  140. AndrewR says:
    @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    Derb linked the video that I was going to link, but I’m surprised neither you nor anyone else who responded to you have apparently seen that video. I mean watching that video is part of Alt-Right 101. But better late than never.

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  141. Bugg says:
    @Anonymous
    John McCain is the only moderate traitor willing to ignore the law and do whatever the pimp donors tell him. After serving the Vietnamese by knocking down five or six planes he was flying poorly, he almost sank an aircraft carrier with a Zoomie Rocket and then sang like a bird at the Hanoi Hilton. Not even Benedict Arnold can match that record of treason. AIPAC needs this traitor to attack every neighbor of Israel without regard to Americans. His brain is senile and cancer ridden. That brainless treason is the kind the New York Times wants conserved. A maverick who will do the bidding of whomever fills his pocket in the cloak room.

    Recall McCain singing gleefully “Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran”. This is the paragon of smart foreign policy?
    Despite no financial acumen at all he suspended his campaign to solve the 2008 Wall Street meltdown; go out and buy some Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns today. His campaign’s big idea regarding Palin was to have her spend a day with Katie Couric. He refused to discuss Obama’s college record, his travels to Pakistan, Obama’s gayer than West Village during the Halloween parade boyfriend on the couch picture, the Chicago gay scene, Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers.In short, McCain gave up. And really as bad as Obama was, McCain would have been a terrible president.The MSM trots out braindead McCain as a conservative when ever it’s useful, and he loves the attention even after getting played every time. McCain’s idea of conservative is what ever he thinks is a good idea right now.There is no governing philosophy past what ever McCain heard or saw in the last 10 minutes.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    And really as bad as Obama was, McCain would have been a terrible president.
     
    Obama kept us out of war with Iran. For that alone, his presidency was a success. Romney or McCain would have had us in many more mideast wars.
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  142. “… Second, McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story. Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.”

    How about citizenship?

    I am confident that the “correct” answer to your question is that nationalism, and therefore citizenship, is just tribalism writ large.

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  143. David Brooks, Bret Stephens and John McCain all push nation-wrecking mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders. Mass immigration is driving politics in the European Christian nations. Mass immigration is an evil plot to obliterate national sovereignty and to destroy cultural cohesion.

    At the risk of angering Sailer with too much comment repetition, I must once again revisit the unpleasant encounter I had with John McCain and his use of the Emma Lazarus poem as an argument to refute my town hall suggestion that mass immigration is destroying the United States.

    I told Senator McCain in 2007 that the mass immigration policies he strongly pushed were destroying the United States. McCain went immediately to the sappy sentimentality strategy and then ended his answer with a recitation of a portion of Emma Lazarus’s crappy poem.

    The video can be watched by way of this Tweet — (at minute 58:00):

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  144. Brutusale says:
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    In this Jews and blacks are the same: you aren’t a success until you can replace the old Jewess/sista with a blonde!

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  145. Stealth says:
    @bgates
    Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

    David Brooks wrote a book on moral character, during which he dumped his wife of 20+ years so he could start schtumping his research assistant for the book. So we're not going to rally him around ideals.

    Short, to-the-point, and damning. I agree.

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  146. @Chrisnonymous
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    Does anyone still go on those things? I wouldn’t if it were free.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I don't know. It was Derb's last one. After his defenestration, I stopped reading NR.
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  147. Stealth says:
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    Was she required to convert, like his first wife?

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  148. @ThreeCranes
    In support of my comment above...

    The definition of paideia includes training in wrestling, gymnastics, and music to give strength and rhythmic harmony to the body. The Greeks were training the whole man. Think of the balance and poise of The Discus Thrower.


    http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-5/discobolus-myron.jpg


    Can anyone show me anything in Hebraic civilization that comes even remotely close to this in intent? Anything in painting, sculpture, architecture? No, because there isn't anything there; no tangible, material or touchable thing that expresses the beautiful, graceful, strong or tender.

    No, instead of all this, the Hebrews created a covenant with their tribal deity. A contract. A business deal. And then got pissed off because Yahweh didn't keep up his end of the bargain. And they've been pissed off ever since and have taken it out on the rest of us.

    The Discus Thrower has decent shoulders, but many of us have shoulders quite similar.

    Take a look at the shoulders on the crew gal rowers from the University of Miami. These beautiful broads have some serious shoulders.

    The 53rd Head Of The Charles regatta is now on. Credit must be given to the rowers who compete, I imagine it is more grueling than it looks to row those boats as fast as they do.

    I don’t care who wins the races, as long as it’s not any of those snots from an Ivy League college.

    Crew Ladies with some serious shoulders:

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    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    Just two weekends ago my wife surprised me with two tickets to the World Rowing Championship here in Sarasota, final day featuring women's and men's eights.

    What a great day racing.

    Totally agree with you.

    Rowers are near the top in VO2 max. I believe it is very grueling. One of the few endurance sports that starts with a sprint. They have to get the boat up to speed quickly. Then they dip slightly below the redline for the body of the race and finally finish with a sprint. Point is they're in oxygen debt from the get go. Not like a marathon where you can set a steady pace from the beginning. And yes, those rower babes have some fine shoulders. Thighs too (remember it's a sliding seat). Rowing is an all-round body sport. Some of my best friends rowed competitively in college. Fine athletes.

    Go Huskies!

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  149. @neutral
    If McCains state ends up having the demographics of California then he will not be voted for, it's really that simple. Liberals know this, alt right types know this, yet somehow the Republicans are too stupid to be aware of this basic fact. It's either that or they are too scared to ever utter this truth.

    The weird thing is, the Republican establishment doesn’t seem to care that demographic trends spell its doom. Why? Is it because the GOPe has no real commitment to the policies it espouses? Is it because individuals in the establishment figure they can always retire to a comfortable sinecure somewhere as long as they mouth the establishment line? Is it because at the establishment level the parties have no important differences anyway? I think the answers to all those questions is “yes.”

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    • Replies: @Alden
    Conservatism is not pro Whiteism. Why should Whites be pro conservative?

    They have not helped us since Eisenhower enforced Brown vs Topeka. And they have lost all the conservatives causes abortion, gays, legal porn on netflix and TV, abolishment of the very word Christmas.

    Conservatives have won a lot of things for the cannibal capitalists though. Unlimited third world immigration, expanded HI B visas for every profession and occupation. Stagnant wages and rising prices.

    And they still give massive corporate and private donations to the colleges which were overtaken by White hating ideologues
    , @guest
    "Why?"

    Because party establishments consistently choose their own power over their party winning, if the two are ever in conflict. As they are now, because the only way for the Republican Party to keep winning is to switch strategies, which means bringing in "reform" candidates like Trump. The more of them come in, and the better they do, the less authority the old leaders have. It's simple, really

    I'm not saying the GOPe would be content to be reduced to winning local dog catcher races, so long as they were the ones receiving the spoils. But they might be happy about the party losing national significance. Because the point of political parties isn't to win everything they can all the time. If you know that, their behavior makes a lot more sense.
    , @Forbes
    Harry, I agree with your sentiment, though after eight years of Obama, the Reps are sitting with more elected politicians than ever. No overriding policy commitment, comfortable sinecures, little distinction from the opposition. The situation is Animal House-like: fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.
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  150. Stealth says:
    @neutral
    If McCains state ends up having the demographics of California then he will not be voted for, it's really that simple. Liberals know this, alt right types know this, yet somehow the Republicans are too stupid to be aware of this basic fact. It's either that or they are too scared to ever utter this truth.

    McCain doesn’t care. He is concerned neither with the future of the country nor the fate of his political party, just like all the other fake Republicans. They’re fully aware that they’re destroying both. All they want is to enrich themselves on the way down – kind of like the guys at Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers (if I’m remembering all that correctly).

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  151. Formerly mild-mannered Leprechaun writer who turned himself into a raging, snarling, steroid-consuming Lyle Alzado replicant, Andrew Sullivan, has recently said that mass immigration might be the issue that destroys the Democrat Party.

    Sullivan writes:

    I don’t believe it’s disputable at this point that the most potent issue behind the rise of the far right in America and Europe is mass immigration. It’s a core reason that Trump is now president; it’s why the AfD is now the third-biggest party in the German, yes, German, parliament; it’s why Austria’s new chancellor won by co-opting much of the far right’s agenda on immigration; it’s why Britain is attempting (and currently failing) to leave the EU; it’s why Marine Le Pen won a record number of votes for her party in France this spring. A critical moment, in retrospect, came with Angela Merkel’s 2015 decision to import over a million Syrian refugees into the heart of Europe. I’ve no doubt her heart was in the right place, but the political naïveté was stunning. How distant from the lives and views of most people does an elite have to be to see nothing to worry about from such drastic social and cultural change? Michael Brendan Dougherty elegantly explains here the dynamic that followed. There are now new borders and fences going up all over Europe, as a response to Merkel’s blithe misjudgment.

    Andrew Sullivan was a stupid boob advanced in the political punditry industry because he could always be counted on to back the prevailing plutocrat-approved political views of the day. In other words, a boring corporate propaganda whore who writes for money what the globalizers want him to write. Sullivan got money and the ability to bang on about about gay marriage in exchange for his whoredom.

    Maybe the lousy Leprechaun whore is repenting of his evil ways. John McCain has more political power and is more of a treasonous whore than Sullivan could ever hope to be.

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  152. jill says:
    @Doug
    OT:

    "Senator Graham Says Terrorism War Expanding, Citing Africa Clash"

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-20/senator-graham-says-terrorism-war-expanding-citing-africa-clash

    What's more brutal and pointless than fighting ground wars in Asia? Answer: ground wars in Africa. Looks like we'll be fighting a lot more soon, according to Mattis. Guess the Trump administration isn't really interested in ending America's invade the world, invite the world ethos.
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  153. More from Andrew Sullivan on mass immigration:

    The entire concept of a nation whose citizens solely determine its future — the core foundation for any viable democracy at all — is now deemed by many left-liberals to be a function of bigotry. This is the kind of madness that could keep them from power indefinitely.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/10/the-issue-that-could-lose-the-next-election-for-democrats.html

    I say:

    Republican Party Patriots must fight a two-front war on both the Globalizer Democrat Party and the Globalizer Republican Party ruling class on the issue of mass immigration and national sovereignty. Republican Party donors and their bought and paid for politicians in the GOP must be removed from power.

    President Trump will ultimately side with the Patriots against the Globalizers on mass immigration and a strong defense of national sovereignty. President Trump could make his position clear by killing the North American Free Trade Agreement trade deal scam.

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  154. Art Deco says:
    @Kyle Kopelovich
    John McCain worked his way up from nothing to become a somebody. He wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth, like Donald Trump. John McCain supports our troops because he was a soldier in Vietnam. Unlike racist Donald, who draft dodges and supports racist white people who hate foreigners...I think there is a word for that. Oh that's right. Racism. John McCain is an American hero, who rose from poverty to success, based solely on merit. John McCain if he doesn't die from AIDS cancer, should run for President in 2020 and save our country. Primary racist Donald and lets really, truly, make America Great Again!

    On the off chance this isn’t a put on: McCain did not grow up in a particularly affluent family, but the Navy does provide a certain sort of security for those who make their life in it and his family in particular had considerable status (“military royalty”). There are some odd lacunae in his Naval career (he was permitted to remain on active duty even though he has some abnormal large-motor and small-motor deficits). N.B. McCain married a woman with an 8-figure sum of money behind her, after separating from his 1st wife.

    Re Trump: he was granted a I-Y deferment for a minor medical issue. About 12% of those of age to be examined for military service were granted I-Y deferments at that time, or over 200,000 a year. You could be re-examined for induction in as little as 90 days. I knew a man who was issued one for eczema on his insteps. About a year-and-a-half after his induction physical, the draft lottery was instituted and Trump’s number was high enough that he wasn’t ever going to be called up. There was no chicanery in this sequence of events and there were no strings pulled on his behalf. Everyone might be more impressed with Trump if he had enlisted, but there’s a certain amount of distance between ‘might be more impressed’ and the contention he did something dishonest or dishonorable. The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders’ eligibility).

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    • Replies: @Alden
    My husband's friends just accepted the Vietnam draft and as they went off to basic started wetting the bed every night and wetting their pants during the day. Worked every time.
    , @anonguy

    The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders’ eligibility).
     
    Don't forget Pat Buchanan, my favorite right wing loudmouth shirker.
    , @Forbes
    Clinton's evasion is actually worse than described. On receipt of his induction notice, he sent the chairman of the draft board a letter stating he would join ROTC at the University of Arkansas where he was to attend Law School. The chairman quashed the notice based on Clinton's promised service--which never happened as he went off to Yale Law School.
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  155. Art Deco says:

    You see Brooks on PBS and he’s repellent to a degree he isn’t in print.

    It’s sort of indicative of the man’s superficiality that he thought Sarah Palin (who had 11 years under her belt as a public executive and presided over one of the more solvent state governments) a scandal and thought Barack Obama (whose executive experience consisted of running the Chicago Annenberg Challenge into the ground) would ‘make a very good President’.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Desiderius
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    If only Palin had worn nylons with seams. Their straightness would have enabled Brooks to more accurately evaluate her fitness for office.
    , @Mr. Anon

    You see Brooks on PBS and he’s repellent to a degree he isn’t in print.
     
    You, on the other hand, manage to be repellent even just in print.
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  156. Art Deco says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    Lowry has (perhaps because the market is like that) failed to recruit anyone engaging for more than 15 years. His more scholarly contributors (Thomas Sowell, Victor Davis Hanson, Mackubin Thomas Owens, and Stanley Kurtz) have gradually drifted away over the years, as have most of the wits (Meghan Cox Gurdon, Florence King, Mark Steyn). They’re not been replaced with anyone you’d recall. The odd exception is Kevin Williamson, who is paid a princely sum to make asinine statements. The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Is Florence King still alive?

    Am I the only person on this blog who's read her boddice-ripper novel set in the Roman period?
    , @Alden
    I like what Victor DAvis Hanson writes about the transformation of CAlifornia from middle class White to low class mex-indian.

    But I hate what he and his family have doen for generations. Hanson is from an old California farming family. And like all California farmers, have been bringing primitive mexican indians to California for the last 100 years.

    Hanson and his family, like all farmers and food industry people are the greatest reason we are so overwhelmed with primitive mex indians. And not just Mexicans. The food industry recruits in the remote jungles of Central America as well.

    There is an old French saying that applies to Hanson. Don't listen to what he says, Look at what he does. He and his ancestors brought primitive mex indian farm workers to California. And they get affirmative action. And he makes a living pontificating about how bad mex amer culture is.
    , @Mr. Anon

    The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.
     
    Perhaps you should apply for a job at NR, Art. Sounds like you'd be a good fit.
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  157. @Harry Baldwin
    Does anyone still go on those things? I wouldn't if it were free.

    I don’t know. It was Derb’s last one. After his defenestration, I stopped reading NR.

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  158. @Art Deco
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    Lowry has (perhaps because the market is like that) failed to recruit anyone engaging for more than 15 years. His more scholarly contributors (Thomas Sowell, Victor Davis Hanson, Mackubin Thomas Owens, and Stanley Kurtz) have gradually drifted away over the years, as have most of the wits (Meghan Cox Gurdon, Florence King, Mark Steyn). They're not been replaced with anyone you'd recall. The odd exception is Kevin Williamson, who is paid a princely sum to make asinine statements. The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.

    Is Florence King still alive?

    Am I the only person on this blog who’s read her boddice-ripper novel set in the Roman period?

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    • Replies: @Alden
    She died recently. I loved her articles in National Review. She has a book out of her articles. Never read her romance novel.
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  159. @Selvar
    A paradox that I've noticed is that both the Alt Right and the far left have a much better grasp of American history and the nature of the American founding than center-right cuckservatives do. Howard Zinn types may loath the Historical American Nation, but at least they acknowledge that the U.S. was in fact founded as a white ethno state with non-whites either being enslaved, made into second class citizens, or ethnically cleansed. Cuckservatives on the other hand hold a view of the U.S. as being founded as a colorblind, multiracial proposition nation with some vague Enlightenment ideology and pseudo-Christian theology mixed in for good measure. In this telling, the Founding Fathers, Martin Luther King, and Ronald Reagan are all part of the same American story towards a "more perfect union" whose most noble goals are tax cuts and the continued security of Isreal.

    Seriously, it's pathetic, just pathetic, to watch cucks plead with their leftist overlords every MLK day about how "Dr.King" was really one of them and how he would not approve of contemporary minority identity politics or affirmative action (note: he would and did). The center-right cuck perspective on American history is so utterly divorced from reality and so obviously intellectually dishonest that I hold radical leftists like Howard Zinn in much higher esteem, as they are at least willing to face the historical reality about the American founding.

    Leftists seem to pick and choose. One day, they’re on the Howard Zinn bandwagon (America was always evil and has to be changed). The next day, America was always destined to be a leftist utopia and things like border enforcement or immigration control never existed (“that’s not who we are”).

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  160. @ThreeCranes
    It's odd and a bit insulting. A Jew has to borrow an Aryan Greek concept to deliver a lecture to gentile Aryans on the subject of how to rear their children.

    I have a minor in classics, attended college in Greece and have traveled through a good part of Greece, from Thessaloniki to Crete. I've pored over many display cases in numerous museums, studied their art history both in the classroom and first hand, walked amidst the ruins of their temples and public buildings, read and reread the dramatists, politicians, philosophers and historians. It got to where I could date any piece of pottery or work of art to within 25-50 years just by looking at it.

    A Jew has no business commenting about Greek civilization except as an outside observer. Judaism and Greek civilization are as incompatible as oil and water. They come from a different place in the human psyche and tend towards different places. To use Aristotle's phrasing, they differ in their Causes.

    Materially, they are of different genetic heritage.

    Formally, the Greeks were democratic in their city states, while the Jews were and are an autocratic, patrician, Theocratic people.

    Finally, the Greeks sought Arete--Virtue (in the sense of paideia above)--while the Jew (ever the wheedler who thinks he got the bad end of a deal) wants to force Yahweh to uphold his end of the bargain.

    No Jew should ever, ever invoke a Greek concept or cultural trait in taking down a Gentile. Know thyself, David. Stick to your sling, your stone and your Giant. Through the lens of your rudimentary civilization and your people's puerile superstitions you cannot even begin to comprehend the wonder that was Greece.

    Bravo, just bravo.

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  161. @Art Deco
    You see Brooks on PBS and he's repellent to a degree he isn't in print.

    It's sort of indicative of the man's superficiality that he thought Sarah Palin (who had 11 years under her belt as a public executive and presided over one of the more solvent state governments) a scandal and thought Barack Obama (whose executive experience consisted of running the Chicago Annenberg Challenge into the ground) would 'make a very good President'.

    If only Palin had worn nylons with seams. Their straightness would have enabled Brooks to more accurately evaluate her fitness for office.

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  162. Alden says:
    @JohnnyD
    What about all the disastrous wars and military interventions McCain has supported over the past twenty-five years? I'm sure that's what the Founding Fathers wanted...

    The founders wanted continuos wars westward until all the Indians, Spanish and British government entities were gone and we had everything between the Rio GRande and CAnada and from the Pacific to the Atlantic, including Cuba and Hawaii.

    But they didn’t want to get involved in the continual wars in Europe.

    The great political theorist and father of numerous octoroon and quadroon babies John CAlhoun was the guy who prevented us from taking over Mexico after the mex amer war. Ever read CAlhoun? Makes all the political intellectuals of today look like 6 graders.

    Had he taken seccession to the supreme court, I believe his constitutional theories would have led the supreme court to let the south secede without the war.

    But Lincoln would have disobeyed the order from the Supreme court, just as he didn’t obey the habeas corpus court order.

    A White person who knows what our government has done to us since Brown vs Topeka 1956 is a total fool for honoring and obeying the USA. Our government wants us dead and gone. Although we are too weak and submissive to fight our government, we can at least know it for what it is.

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  163. @ThreeCranes
    It's odd and a bit insulting. A Jew has to borrow an Aryan Greek concept to deliver a lecture to gentile Aryans on the subject of how to rear their children.

    I have a minor in classics, attended college in Greece and have traveled through a good part of Greece, from Thessaloniki to Crete. I've pored over many display cases in numerous museums, studied their art history both in the classroom and first hand, walked amidst the ruins of their temples and public buildings, read and reread the dramatists, politicians, philosophers and historians. It got to where I could date any piece of pottery or work of art to within 25-50 years just by looking at it.

    A Jew has no business commenting about Greek civilization except as an outside observer. Judaism and Greek civilization are as incompatible as oil and water. They come from a different place in the human psyche and tend towards different places. To use Aristotle's phrasing, they differ in their Causes.

    Materially, they are of different genetic heritage.

    Formally, the Greeks were democratic in their city states, while the Jews were and are an autocratic, patrician, Theocratic people.

    Finally, the Greeks sought Arete--Virtue (in the sense of paideia above)--while the Jew (ever the wheedler who thinks he got the bad end of a deal) wants to force Yahweh to uphold his end of the bargain.

    No Jew should ever, ever invoke a Greek concept or cultural trait in taking down a Gentile. Know thyself, David. Stick to your sling, your stone and your Giant. Through the lens of your rudimentary civilization and your people's puerile superstitions you cannot even begin to comprehend the wonder that was Greece.

    Wow! A wannabe classicist and a jew hater, 1 and the same. Has anyone tabulated the percentage of jew hate comments in serious blogs? About jew hate: it seems that that opinion waxes and wanes as all climates of opinion might be expected to. My sense is that jew hate abated after WW II and reached its nadir after those plucky Israelis fought and won the Six Day War in 1967. Afterwards, it grew back, like an intractable weed, presumably in step with a growing resentment of the ongoing economic success of the state of Israel and of individual jews all over the world whose gift for making money is a continual astonishment.

    Another explanation of burgeoning jew hate from otherwise sensible people is their sensible resentment at the predominance of American jewish journalists and public voices of the anti-patriotic left. I googled “top left-wing journalists” and found a list from the Daily Beast of the top 25 lefties. Of those no less than 15 were jews. The Daily Beast also provided a list of the top right-wing journalists. Of those only 4 were jews, 1 of them dead (Andrew Breitbart), 1 of them David Brooks who is actually an anti-patriotic globalist and doesn’t rightfully belong on that list.

    As 1 of ((them)), I am personally concerned about the dynamics of jew hate. Is it growing? Some interested individual or entity should survey the comment sections of online major media and the serious blogs on an ongoing basis to detect how jew hate is trending.

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    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I think social media has allowed for a remarkable outburst of a kind of pop anti-Semitism in the last year or so but I don't know how sincere it is. "Hate" is too strong a passion to describe almost all this trolling we see all over the place right now. Most of it is juvenile but it's fuelled by an understandable resentment of prominent, politically engaged Jews that I myself largely share. That being said, the people "naming the Jew" or attempting to point out Jewish mischief seem to miss the mark about three times more often than they hit it.
    , @ThreeCranes
    What in any of my comment gives you any reason to label me a Jew hater?

    (although if I did hate Jews I wouldn't be afraid to admit it.)

    What I said was for Brooks to hoe his own row and not borrow his neighbors' tool and then advise them in how to wield it.

    Read more carefully next time.

    Don't project your paranoiac fantasies on me.

    Learn some history so that you can clearly make comparisons and see real differences.

    Stop being the insular, closeted person you are. (people from large urban centers e.g. NYC are the most ignorant, narrow minded people I've met in America. They know little to nothing beyond their neighborhood, which they regard as the center of the world. This presumption destroys any impetus they should have to learn about the wider world.)
    , @Anonymous
    I don't hate Jews. I don't want Jews to stop being Jewish.

    I do believe we must be able to openly criticize Jews, and any and all other groups, as groups and they must be free to criticize us.
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  164. Alden says:
    @Art Deco
    On the off chance this isn't a put on: McCain did not grow up in a particularly affluent family, but the Navy does provide a certain sort of security for those who make their life in it and his family in particular had considerable status ("military royalty"). There are some odd lacunae in his Naval career (he was permitted to remain on active duty even though he has some abnormal large-motor and small-motor deficits). N.B. McCain married a woman with an 8-figure sum of money behind her, after separating from his 1st wife.

    Re Trump: he was granted a I-Y deferment for a minor medical issue. About 12% of those of age to be examined for military service were granted I-Y deferments at that time, or over 200,000 a year. You could be re-examined for induction in as little as 90 days. I knew a man who was issued one for eczema on his insteps. About a year-and-a-half after his induction physical, the draft lottery was instituted and Trump's number was high enough that he wasn't ever going to be called up. There was no chicanery in this sequence of events and there were no strings pulled on his behalf. Everyone might be more impressed with Trump if he had enlisted, but there's a certain amount of distance between 'might be more impressed' and the contention he did something dishonest or dishonorable. The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders' eligibility).

    My husband’s friends just accepted the Vietnam draft and as they went off to basic started wetting the bed every night and wetting their pants during the day. Worked every time.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    A good way to get beat up by your compatriots. Sounds like a tall tale. More plausible are stories of this kind of thing at and/or immediately prior to induction time.
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  165. @Rod1963
    Bush had already wrecked the GOP brand and this rotten tempered freak offered people no alternative to the business as usual of selling out America.

    Really no one liked him. The MSM propped him up because he was a useful tool and neo-con globalist like the rest of the swamp. He just wanted to attack Iran and Syria, basically start WWIII like a good little establishment WASP.

    His campaign was a disaster and I could never find anyone who liked him. He offered nothing to the working and middle-class except amnesty and a giant FU. Palin was his best decision but she made the old goat look tired and flat, so he side lined her.

    Now he gets to die in office.

    .

    I agree totally, Rod, and with Hanoi up above. To me, Sarah Palin was the only reason I even THOUGHT OF voting for this scumbag, hoping he wouldn’t last 4 years. I couldn’t take that chance, though, and voted Libertarian.

    Kind of like Trump, Sarah Palin pissed off the right people.

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  166. @Kyle Kopelovich
    Also we are not a "Christian country" . The slaves that your ancestors brought over were mostly Muslims and they built this country. If anything, we are a Judeo-Christian country but lets not forget about the millions of Muslims who were brought here on slave ships and forcibly converted to Christianity.

    Hey Kyle, how come we don’t see you and Tiny Duck together ever in the same pond under the same post? Now, that is kind of strange….

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  167. notice says:

    Stephens and Brooks are both fake conservatives. This should be pointed out to them constantly.

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  168. J1234 says:

    Progressives and thinly veiled progressives hold up Wendell Willke as their ideal Republican archetype, the person who they think conservative politicians should pattern themselves after, and McCain is the closest thing to Wendell Willke to come out of the Republican party in the last 70 years. There’s a reason Ted Kennedy tried to talk McCain into switching parties 20 years ago: he was already 80% there.

    David Brooks must surely realize that he himself (along with McCain) is so ten years ago from the perspective of most conservatives, whether they’re Trump supporters or not. Or maybe the self-contained political and social biosphere of the NYT keeps that reality from ever reaching him. It’s hard to believe he thinks anyone is really listening to him when he advocates for the worn out, sold out and cashed out McCain.

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    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    McCain as Wendell Willkie. Brilliant. I hope that he hears about it.
    , @guest
    Wilkie is perhaps the most suspicious presidential candidate in American history. In the midst of one of the largest national mass political movements ever--America First!--he rose up out of nowhere to deprive the electorate of a choice on one of the biggest issues ever: entry into WWII. This seems like moot point, considering after Pearl Harbor even isolationist would've gone to war. But of course Pearl Harbor didn't fall out of the clear blue sky, and just because WWII is a given doesn't mean insanities like "unconditional surrender," terror bombing, and Yalta were.

    Aside from Palin, McCain's candidacy is highly suspicious. He didn't pop up out of nowhere, and in fact had a long priming period in the national consciousness. He was "next in line," in the idiotic Washington manner of Bob Dole, since 2000, and had the phony "maverick" reputation. But it didn't seem like he cared about winning. The biggest moment of the election, when he unilaterally decided to suspend his campaign because economic emergency, certainly backs that up.

    Which begs the question: what happened with Palin? Did his handlers expect her to be a dud? Was it a sop to feminism that backfired? Were they truly caught off guard? Or were they actually trying, and the rest of the campaign was pure incompetence?

    , @Forbes
    Most Dems I know think McCain is the perfect Republican candidate. I doubt they'd cast a vote for him--but that's how they think about politics...
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  169. Alden says:
    @Mike342
    Jewish overuse of antique terminology betrays their low class nouveaux riche status. Yes, David, you've read a book at Aryan college. Its equivalent to a low class Anglo over-pronouncing French in an ironically backfired attempt to signal social status, patent leather shoes at an event that requires a "tux", and wearing labels. I would bet that his bookshelf is full of dusty classics with unbroken spines, and that perhaps he considered "xanthippe" for the name of some creature in his household.

    My family calls them “jumped up shetl” Know the difference between a WASP or CAtholic old lady with a face lift and a Jewish old lady with a face lift???

    The Christian old ladies get the neck and chest done all the way down to the collar bone. And the eyes are left a bit wrinkly so they don’t get so stretched they look like Asians. But unless they are actresses, Jewish old ladies get their eyes all stretched and leave their wattlly old necks undone on top the face lift.

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  170. Alden says:
    @Art Deco
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    Lowry has (perhaps because the market is like that) failed to recruit anyone engaging for more than 15 years. His more scholarly contributors (Thomas Sowell, Victor Davis Hanson, Mackubin Thomas Owens, and Stanley Kurtz) have gradually drifted away over the years, as have most of the wits (Meghan Cox Gurdon, Florence King, Mark Steyn). They're not been replaced with anyone you'd recall. The odd exception is Kevin Williamson, who is paid a princely sum to make asinine statements. The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.

    I like what Victor DAvis Hanson writes about the transformation of CAlifornia from middle class White to low class mex-indian.

    But I hate what he and his family have doen for generations. Hanson is from an old California farming family. And like all California farmers, have been bringing primitive mexican indians to California for the last 100 years.

    Hanson and his family, like all farmers and food industry people are the greatest reason we are so overwhelmed with primitive mex indians. And not just Mexicans. The food industry recruits in the remote jungles of Central America as well.

    There is an old French saying that applies to Hanson. Don’t listen to what he says, Look at what he does. He and his ancestors brought primitive mex indian farm workers to California. And they get affirmative action. And he makes a living pontificating about how bad mex amer culture is.

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  171. @ThreeCranes
    It's odd and a bit insulting. A Jew has to borrow an Aryan Greek concept to deliver a lecture to gentile Aryans on the subject of how to rear their children.

    I have a minor in classics, attended college in Greece and have traveled through a good part of Greece, from Thessaloniki to Crete. I've pored over many display cases in numerous museums, studied their art history both in the classroom and first hand, walked amidst the ruins of their temples and public buildings, read and reread the dramatists, politicians, philosophers and historians. It got to where I could date any piece of pottery or work of art to within 25-50 years just by looking at it.

    A Jew has no business commenting about Greek civilization except as an outside observer. Judaism and Greek civilization are as incompatible as oil and water. They come from a different place in the human psyche and tend towards different places. To use Aristotle's phrasing, they differ in their Causes.

    Materially, they are of different genetic heritage.

    Formally, the Greeks were democratic in their city states, while the Jews were and are an autocratic, patrician, Theocratic people.

    Finally, the Greeks sought Arete--Virtue (in the sense of paideia above)--while the Jew (ever the wheedler who thinks he got the bad end of a deal) wants to force Yahweh to uphold his end of the bargain.

    No Jew should ever, ever invoke a Greek concept or cultural trait in taking down a Gentile. Know thyself, David. Stick to your sling, your stone and your Giant. Through the lens of your rudimentary civilization and your people's puerile superstitions you cannot even begin to comprehend the wonder that was Greece.

    True. I remember the coolly dispassionate, militantly secular French encyclopedia I had in high school listed Jesus and his Apostles each as a “Hellenized Jew”. The point being was that Christianity was rightly considered a Hellenizing heresy of Judaism. The internet neo-pagans say Christianity corrupted Europe with Judaism but the case is far stronger that Christianity is the result of Indo-European civilization “corrupting” Judaism.

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    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    I don't think that Jesus was a Hellenized Jew. That honor goes to Paul, who created what is incorrectly called "Christianity." Should be called "Paulianity."

    A good book to read about this is James Tabor's "Paul and Jesus":

    https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jesus-Apostle-Transformed-Christianity/dp/1439123322?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1439123322
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  172. Alden says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    The weird thing is, the Republican establishment doesn't seem to care that demographic trends spell its doom. Why? Is it because the GOPe has no real commitment to the policies it espouses? Is it because individuals in the establishment figure they can always retire to a comfortable sinecure somewhere as long as they mouth the establishment line? Is it because at the establishment level the parties have no important differences anyway? I think the answers to all those questions is "yes."

    Conservatism is not pro Whiteism. Why should Whites be pro conservative?

    They have not helped us since Eisenhower enforced Brown vs Topeka. And they have lost all the conservatives causes abortion, gays, legal porn on netflix and TV, abolishment of the very word Christmas.

    Conservatives have won a lot of things for the cannibal capitalists though. Unlimited third world immigration, expanded HI B visas for every profession and occupation. Stagnant wages and rising prices.

    And they still give massive corporate and private donations to the colleges which were overtaken by White hating ideologues

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  173. @jorge videla (BGI volunteer)
    i don't know who bret stevens is, but i do know (now) that i will never read him.

    i'm pretty confident brooks will never recommend heidegger, so i won't have to retroactively not read him.

    ...

    btw steve, you were wrong about all the 100m finalists being west african.

    frankie fredericks was a namibian.

    were his parents immigrants? i don't think so. he's fairly light skinned, suggesting khoi-san ancestry.

    also afaik, "west africa" is never used in a sense which includes namibia.

    “Jorge Videla”.

    Almost as good as, say, “Augusto Pinochet”.

    But what do you have against Heidegger?

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  174. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    Yes, same here. The word “paideia” sort of rang a bell for me but that’s about it. I like to pride myself on knowing how to pronounce “Nicomachean” so not knowing “paideia” hit me pretty hard.

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    • Replies: @alexander
    You will recover.
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  175. @guest
    I've heard the term, but I did my thesis paper in college on Plato. (Or Play-Dough as everyone who asked me initially thought. I eventually stopped correcting them.)

    Brooks knows he's going to irritate you and give thrills up the leg to people who recognize it. To me, he sounds pompous.

    “Play-Dough” – funny, believable, and all-too-illuminating about the country we inhabit.

    As, come to think of it, is Brooks’s reputation as a pundit.

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  176. @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    No, Steve is correct, if only for the United States.

    My identity as an American has never meant anything to me other than citizenship. I have never felt emotionally or culturally bound to groups within America who do not share my Northern European ancestry: the Italians, the Poles, the blacks, the Jews. But I will admit that one bond of citizenship: we are all in this together. It is that which the immigration flood has endangered, if not (quite yet) destroyed.

    Europe is different. There race and culture are crucial, as Catalonia is reminding us.

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  177. @Steve Sailer
    "The late Christopher Hitchens was another self-described “ex-Trotskite”"

    Was C Hitchens really ever an "ex-Trotskyite"?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/07/the-old-man/302984/

    No I don’t think he ever was but he did play cute about it, the same way Tony Blair does now.

    Both McCain and Bush Jr are Sunbelt silver spoon scions of powerful WASPy families who got Jewish nerds to do their homework for them for so long that it shaped their worldview. The end result is two rich old bastards who want permanent revolution and internationalism abroad and Mexican PRI party style creature comforts at home. By “at home” I mean their actual residences and those of their immediate family and friends.

    The Clinton-Bush era consensus is the American PRI in practice. It’s like the Trotsky friendly Institutionalized Revolutionary Party of Mexico but for their larger and more powerful northern neighbour.

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    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @guest
    "I mean their actual residences"

    Juan didn't even know how many homes he owned, remember? When asked during the '08 campaign, McCain told a reporter his staff would have to get back to him. That's the world they inhabit.

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  178. Sean says:

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history. But McCain seeks to preserve our traditional rallying point — our ideals. My colleague Bret Stephens has already quoted from McCain’s speech on Monday at the National Constitution Center. I’d encourage you to read the whole thing because this should be the rallying cry around which the nation rediscovers its soul.

    Like McCain rediscovered his:-

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7474558.stm

    During the primaries, Mr McCain announced that his immigration focus would be on securing America’s borders, rather than on giving illegal immigrants the chance to become US citizens.
    “I understand why you would call it a, quote, shift,” McCain told reporters in November 2007.
    “I say it is a lesson learned about what the American people’s priorities are. And their priority is to secure the borders.”

    Brooks and Stevens are united by the value they place on social status within their religion or tribe. McCain took Brooks’s and Stevens’s directions back to what they said was the ” traditional rallying point” — it turned out to be the Slough of Despond.

    The old “soul” depended on the masses (but not Bret or David) misunderstanding how their community’s ethics worked. Now the tables are turned.

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  179. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco
    I went on one National Review cruise and rubbed elbows with that crowd. There are some smart cookies there, but a lot of ignorance and self-importance too.

    Lowry has (perhaps because the market is like that) failed to recruit anyone engaging for more than 15 years. His more scholarly contributors (Thomas Sowell, Victor Davis Hanson, Mackubin Thomas Owens, and Stanley Kurtz) have gradually drifted away over the years, as have most of the wits (Meghan Cox Gurdon, Florence King, Mark Steyn). They're not been replaced with anyone you'd recall. The odd exception is Kevin Williamson, who is paid a princely sum to make asinine statements. The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.

    The managing editor of the publication is someone their attentive readers vociferously despise.

    Perhaps you should apply for a job at NR, Art. Sounds like you’d be a good fit.

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  180. 3g4me says:
    @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    @10 Methodological Terrorist: “I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

    Totally on point. As Z blog recently quipped, “Civic Nationalism is Progressivism in a tricorn hat.”

    Citizenism rests on belief in magic paper + ideals, yet all of Sailer’s posts support the non-citizenist belief that DNA MATTERS. Cognitive dissonance, much, Steve?

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  181. @Anonymouse
    Wow! A wannabe classicist and a jew hater, 1 and the same. Has anyone tabulated the percentage of jew hate comments in serious blogs? About jew hate: it seems that that opinion waxes and wanes as all climates of opinion might be expected to. My sense is that jew hate abated after WW II and reached its nadir after those plucky Israelis fought and won the Six Day War in 1967. Afterwards, it grew back, like an intractable weed, presumably in step with a growing resentment of the ongoing economic success of the state of Israel and of individual jews all over the world whose gift for making money is a continual astonishment.

    Another explanation of burgeoning jew hate from otherwise sensible people is their sensible resentment at the predominance of American jewish journalists and public voices of the anti-patriotic left. I googled "top left-wing journalists" and found a list from the Daily Beast of the top 25 lefties. Of those no less than 15 were jews. The Daily Beast also provided a list of the top right-wing journalists. Of those only 4 were jews, 1 of them dead (Andrew Breitbart), 1 of them David Brooks who is actually an anti-patriotic globalist and doesn't rightfully belong on that list.

    As 1 of ((them)), I am personally concerned about the dynamics of jew hate. Is it growing? Some interested individual or entity should survey the comment sections of online major media and the serious blogs on an ongoing basis to detect how jew hate is trending.

    I think social media has allowed for a remarkable outburst of a kind of pop anti-Semitism in the last year or so but I don’t know how sincere it is. “Hate” is too strong a passion to describe almost all this trolling we see all over the place right now. Most of it is juvenile but it’s fuelled by an understandable resentment of prominent, politically engaged Jews that I myself largely share. That being said, the people “naming the Jew” or attempting to point out Jewish mischief seem to miss the mark about three times more often than they hit it.

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  182. Mr. Anon says:
    @Frau Katze
    Fareed Zakaria wrote a book on "illiberal democracy." I read it a number of years ago. It was the first time I'd heard of Zakaria.

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it's hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.

    You're completely right about Myanmar. It has a unbelievable number of ethnicities. There are even some that converted to Christianity.

    But they're currently united around getting the Rohingya to move back to Bangladesh. Myanmar is a clear example of how multiculturalism simply doesn't work.

    It started fragmenting soon after the Brits left post WW II. Within a few years, various groups were fighting each other over having their own homelands (this was the case even without considering the Rohingya).

    It became completely nonfunctional and a dictatorship ensued. Zakaria argued that in some cases, this is preferable.

    https://www.amazon.com/Future-Freedom-Illiberal-Democracy-Revised-ebook/dp/B000WJOW6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508570034&sr=8-1&keywords=illiberal+democracies

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it’s hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.

    Can you be sure that he wrote them? He does have a history on that score:

    Columnist Fareed Zakaria faces new accusations of plagiarism

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Yes, I heard about that. Plus he no longer sounds sensible.
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  183. 3g4me says:
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    @27 Hanoi Paris Hilton: “If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.”

    Amazing that I never realized how simple it was to alter one’s genealogical inheritance. Thank you for this.

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  184. Mr. Anon says:
    @Father O'Hara
    McCain wasn't supposed to win. When Palin injected a bit of life into his oldwhiteman campaign,he got scared and moved to wreck it.
    I had to laugh when Soros or (((whoever ))) it was did whatever sort of financial legerdemain they did to kick start the financial collapse,McCain announces he is suspending his campaign to go back to DC to fix it.He was like Curley: Woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo woo!

    It was odd how McCain, whose campaign was broke, suddenly became “the one” and had beaucoup dollars stuffed into his pockets for the race. Very odd.

    Well, Obama was the champ. And every champ needs a bum to beat on the way to the top.

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  185. Mr. Anon says:
    @Art Deco
    You see Brooks on PBS and he's repellent to a degree he isn't in print.

    It's sort of indicative of the man's superficiality that he thought Sarah Palin (who had 11 years under her belt as a public executive and presided over one of the more solvent state governments) a scandal and thought Barack Obama (whose executive experience consisted of running the Chicago Annenberg Challenge into the ground) would 'make a very good President'.

    You see Brooks on PBS and he’s repellent to a degree he isn’t in print.

    You, on the other hand, manage to be repellent even just in print.

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  186. Kylie says:
    @Mike342
    Jewish overuse of antique terminology betrays their low class nouveaux riche status. Yes, David, you've read a book at Aryan college. Its equivalent to a low class Anglo over-pronouncing French in an ironically backfired attempt to signal social status, patent leather shoes at an event that requires a "tux", and wearing labels. I would bet that his bookshelf is full of dusty classics with unbroken spines, and that perhaps he considered "xanthippe" for the name of some creature in his household.

    Excellent. Especially the part about “Xanthippe”

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  187. Bubba says:
    @Rod1963
    Bush had already wrecked the GOP brand and this rotten tempered freak offered people no alternative to the business as usual of selling out America.

    Really no one liked him. The MSM propped him up because he was a useful tool and neo-con globalist like the rest of the swamp. He just wanted to attack Iran and Syria, basically start WWIII like a good little establishment WASP.

    His campaign was a disaster and I could never find anyone who liked him. He offered nothing to the working and middle-class except amnesty and a giant FU. Palin was his best decision but she made the old goat look tired and flat, so he side lined her.

    Now he gets to die in office.

    .

    Well said – at least his disability payments (100%), retirement pay, and a cushy federal job with platinum health benefits will be less of a burden to taxpayers soon. Unfortunately, his ultra-millionaire second wife will continue to bank his Senator salary until she dies. McCain never should have been accepted into the Naval Academy, let alone graduate at the bottom of his class. History would have been far better for the world if John McCain had grown his hair long and went to UCLA for music or film like Jim Morrison (Admiral George Morrison’s son) and stayed away from the military and public life.

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  188. 3g4me says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    This line of argument--America's "traditional" glue is its ideals and not tribe--is disingenuous inasmuch as the tribal affiliations were more or less taken for granted in the past. Saying that accepting Catholic Italians is the same as accepting Islamic Africans is quite a stretch.

    There has been a constant struggle in US to expand the ideals from core America to other people, but just stating that "real" America is the ideals papers over any adult retrospective about the success of the expansion and the way the expansion has changed the country.

    @42 Chrisnonymous: “There has been a constant struggle in US to expand the ideals from core America to other people, but just stating that “real” America is the ideals papers over any adult retrospective about the success of the expansion and the way the expansion has changed the country.”

    Excellent new post over at Those Who Can See exploring exactly this issue. Most blogs, including this one to a certain degree, note the near impossibility of “assimilating” (I despise that mealy-mouthed word) the racially and culturally incompatible, but simultaneously extol muh magic Ellis Islander. Vox Day, to his credit, has written extensively on just how alien most of the Ellis Islanders were, how much they changed America, and how little genuine assimilation there has been. Those Who Can See properly labels it rather “amalgamation,” which is something else entirely.

    tl;dr: No, your sainted immigrant grandparents and great-grandparents were neither sainted, nor special, nor in any sense genuine Americans.

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  189. @Anonymouse
    Wow! A wannabe classicist and a jew hater, 1 and the same. Has anyone tabulated the percentage of jew hate comments in serious blogs? About jew hate: it seems that that opinion waxes and wanes as all climates of opinion might be expected to. My sense is that jew hate abated after WW II and reached its nadir after those plucky Israelis fought and won the Six Day War in 1967. Afterwards, it grew back, like an intractable weed, presumably in step with a growing resentment of the ongoing economic success of the state of Israel and of individual jews all over the world whose gift for making money is a continual astonishment.

    Another explanation of burgeoning jew hate from otherwise sensible people is their sensible resentment at the predominance of American jewish journalists and public voices of the anti-patriotic left. I googled "top left-wing journalists" and found a list from the Daily Beast of the top 25 lefties. Of those no less than 15 were jews. The Daily Beast also provided a list of the top right-wing journalists. Of those only 4 were jews, 1 of them dead (Andrew Breitbart), 1 of them David Brooks who is actually an anti-patriotic globalist and doesn't rightfully belong on that list.

    As 1 of ((them)), I am personally concerned about the dynamics of jew hate. Is it growing? Some interested individual or entity should survey the comment sections of online major media and the serious blogs on an ongoing basis to detect how jew hate is trending.

    What in any of my comment gives you any reason to label me a Jew hater?

    (although if I did hate Jews I wouldn’t be afraid to admit it.)

    What I said was for Brooks to hoe his own row and not borrow his neighbors’ tool and then advise them in how to wield it.

    Read more carefully next time.

    Don’t project your paranoiac fantasies on me.

    Learn some history so that you can clearly make comparisons and see real differences.

    Stop being the insular, closeted person you are. (people from large urban centers e.g. NYC are the most ignorant, narrow minded people I’ve met in America. They know little to nothing beyond their neighborhood, which they regard as the center of the world. This presumption destroys any impetus they should have to learn about the wider world.)

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  190. @Stephen Paul Foster
    Don't forget it was David Brooks who concluded his review of Ta-Nehisi Coates’s book, Between the World and Me, an anti-white diatribe by an angry black man by asking himself if he, “as a white man has the moral standing to question any part of it?”, the same David Brooks, by the way, who after interviewing then Presidential candidate, Barack Obama back in those halcyon days of “Hope and Change” wrote: “I remember distinctly an image of–we were sitting on his couches, and I was looking at his pant leg and his perfectly creased pant … and I’m thinking, a) he’s going to be president and b) he’ll be a very good president.”

    See also: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2015/08/thomas-jefferson-and-grievance-mongers.html

    “couches”?

    More evidence that Brooks is indeed lower class.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    How 'bout 'Davenport' as my grandmother used to call 'em...
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  191. @ThreeCranes
    In support of my comment above...

    The definition of paideia includes training in wrestling, gymnastics, and music to give strength and rhythmic harmony to the body. The Greeks were training the whole man. Think of the balance and poise of The Discus Thrower.


    http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-5/discobolus-myron.jpg


    Can anyone show me anything in Hebraic civilization that comes even remotely close to this in intent? Anything in painting, sculpture, architecture? No, because there isn't anything there; no tangible, material or touchable thing that expresses the beautiful, graceful, strong or tender.

    No, instead of all this, the Hebrews created a covenant with their tribal deity. A contract. A business deal. And then got pissed off because Yahweh didn't keep up his end of the bargain. And they've been pissed off ever since and have taken it out on the rest of us.

    You are correct about Judaism, but wrong about the individual Jew.

    If one amongst them abandons his tribal loyalty and adheres to the West (which means to Greece as its font) then he can be a welcome part of the conversation.

    Otherwise not, as you say.

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  192. John McCain pushes open borders mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders. John McCain was a big backer of the Iraq War debacle. John McCain supports sovereignty-sapping, job-killing trade deal scams such as NAFTA.

    John McCain is a treasonous whore for evil globalizers. McCain has spent his whole political career attacking the European Christian ancestral core of the United States. John McCain will burn and rot in hell for his attacks on the United States of America.

    This tweet was from 2014:

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  193. David Brooks and Bret Stephens are Neo-Conservative Jews who want to continue to use the US military as muscle to destroy Israel’s regional enemies. John McCain will back any war anywhere because he believes America only exists in her fullest form when she is engaged in expansionary war.

    President Trump was elected because many people in the United States reject the notion that the United States has some duty to engage in endless wars that do not not advance the interests of the United States. Trump was promising to only use military force when clear and concrete foreign policy goals can be achieved by the projection of US military force.

    David Brooks and Bret Stephens are Neo-Conservative Jews who push mass immigration in order to attack the European Christian ancestral core of the United States. John McCain pushes mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien invaders because McCain is a bought and paid for politician whore who does the bidding of the GOP Cheap Labor Faction.

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  194. Boomstick says:
    @Rod1963
    Bush had already wrecked the GOP brand and this rotten tempered freak offered people no alternative to the business as usual of selling out America.

    Really no one liked him. The MSM propped him up because he was a useful tool and neo-con globalist like the rest of the swamp. He just wanted to attack Iran and Syria, basically start WWIII like a good little establishment WASP.

    His campaign was a disaster and I could never find anyone who liked him. He offered nothing to the working and middle-class except amnesty and a giant FU. Palin was his best decision but she made the old goat look tired and flat, so he side lined her.

    Now he gets to die in office.

    .

    I’m not so sure the media could have been called “friendly” to McCain in 2008 when running against Obama. He was often denounced as some sort of Nazi, as is everyone who runs against a Democratic presidential candidate.

    Trump has been clever enough to just tell the media they’re faux via twitter. The media goes insane, and the public agrees with Trump. Also about the football pledge of allegiance.

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  195. utu says:
    @John Derbyshire

    Barbara Lerner Spectre’s paideia:

    I think there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role and without that transformation, Europe will not survive.

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  196. Altai says:
    @Colleen Pater
    Actually only white people can be rallied around ideals and this is the rub. The campus straw man he's saying is tribalist is using the cucks ideals against them al la alinsky's make the enemy live up to their own rules knowing full well this is going to be a one way enforcement. the alt right hes subtly calling nazis isnt actually against his ideals only realistic that ideal rallying is an evolutionary development of out bred europeans and like welfare states and immigration, you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.

    you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.

    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they’re fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.

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    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    The other side of the coin is that people are more willing to pay higher taxes to help people that they feel a connection with.
    , @Anonymous

    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they’re fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.
     
    After a while they corrupt the populace, but if it is sufficiently isolated it corrects itself. But when outlanders can get in it's suicidal.
    , @Colleen Pater
    While at one time I was that old conservative triggered by nordic socialism,but I have observed a lot thats altered my thinking a bit.

    First let me say one of the worst effects of multi marxist culturalism is too remove the ability to socially correct our co ethnics. This is leftist synergy at its finest that is most corrupt. We can do it because, that would be having a culture which we are not allowed because that would be offensive and a threat to the left. we cant do it because they won and we don't have a culture to do it with. we cant do it because id we were to succeed ans our outcomes were to exceed the browns that would undermine leftist premises and be racist. We cant do it because that would slow progress which means slow anarchy, leftism few realise is a power grab, phase one is taking power away from the enemy through anarchy, later they will restore order through totalitarianism and you will beg them for it.Did you think they actually liked Islam and rioting niggers?

    So yes as you imply you can even have socialism if you have whites enforcing the rest of the culture as well. If you have ever lived in the country with whites you know the drill if anyone needs helps you help as if it were your own child, never ask for help or let anyone know you need help no matter what and refuse all help.

    Regarding socialism, its still obviously a moral hazard, however. I have noted white people have a low tolerance for suffering and see it as a problem to be solved. It seems if you don't solve it they will turn to charity and eventually socialism. They also like to use their smarts to minimize risk thus the concept of insurance. Most socialism solved problems can be transformed into insurance plans at least theoretically and if the demographics are the potential whites have demonstrated to be capable of not what leftists have reduced them too, see first paragraph.In real life these insurance plans would probably require mandatory participation. Otherwise commons problem, the the strongest would opt out then later whine about something needing to be done. better to admit we have this low tolerance, decide what the bare minimum we can live with and have a minimal social insurance program, the strongest can then supplement that as they wish. Having it administered privately may be more expensive but likely only way it remains insurance and not welfare.

    Capitalism is not actually a right wing system its theoretically neutral currently its in contract with the left. Certainly its always a threat to authority and culture which is certainly not conservative and which kings and popes always understood, only the enlightenment decided it was a good bit of course the enlightenment was a leftist revolution. Obviously capitalism can be adopted to the right and has aspects that suit it to the right as well, but we must remember its not actually intelligent its just single minded, it doesn't change in response to our needs and sell us what we want it sells us what it changes us in response to what it can make a profit on and sells us what it wants to sell us.It must be subordinated to culture and to authority, dont worry itll manage to adapt and make a profit. Remember the reason we on the right like capitalism is not for the beauty of its self adjusting ability to profit, we revere it because it serves us, we have no reason to revere it when t is not serving us.

    I was actually being generous, its not actually clear you can have enlightenment societies even among whites,they are simply the thin edge of leftism even all the way back to 1776 a sort of libertarianism because the technology was not possible for more devolved into what we have now as soon as it was able. Yes sure the state grabbed more power more even than a king once exerted much more, but the vote immediately expanded and politicians immediately became a professional class and then a civil service class as well.You are going to have authority one way or another might as well admit this and not let the mob rule on the pretext theirs a couple of mensas in the mob. If authority is explicit you can actually safely have more not less freedom. when no ones in charge freedom is dangerous.kings and nobles were done away with to solve a problem of human resource in efficiency post agricultural, a meritocracy can still be had just do away with the part about all men are created equal which is sort of a contradiction to meritocracy.The less equal are well aware where they fall and are happy to be ruled well, democracy's problems are not the result of the less abled and their pitchforks, (which only come out when really really badly ruled) The problems are the result of elites gaming the system to replace other elites, sometimes they enlist the mobs in their power plays. Yes this is a sort of way to sort the most able elites to rule, its just a really stupid way to do it only a notch above the old system where they would have wars to decide. Politics is proxy war and almost nay even more destructive.we need authority and we need a meritocratic aristocracy and we need a place for everyone commensurate with ability, we dont need this all against all waste we need a system they must conform to to be able to rise within.
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  197. 3g4me says:
    @Vinay
    “preserving the scarcity value of American citizenship”

    Whatever the sins of immigration policy, it’s certainly *preserving* the scarcity of American citizenship. World population growth has consistently outstripped US population growth for at least a century.

    I’m pretty sure if you look at the top 10 countries of origin for immigrants, those countries population growth outstrips the US too. So US citizenship is certainly not getting less scarce.

    @56 Vinay: “Whatever the sins of immigration policy, it’s certainly *preserving* the scarcity of American citizenship. World population growth has consistently outstripped US population growth for at least a century.”

    Yeah, gee, we are merely third in the world in terms of population. We really should be working harder to keep up with international power-houses India and China by importing more Indians and Chinese. Oh wait, we are! And meanwhile quality and satisfaction with life are decreasing and intercultural conflict and stress are increasing.

    Hmmmn, wasn’t there a rather recent thread where AM asserted my point and the famously non-tribal Jack D felt compelled to “correct” her?

    And besides which, Steve has noted that White people neither breed nor thrive in captivity (or extremely crowded locales). Your cultural heritage is obviously different – yet another example of how “citizenism” is an incoherent philosophy resting on a belief in multiculturalism utterly at odds with the reality of HBD.

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    • Replies: @Broski
    Exactly. Per capita quality of live is what matters, not total quantity of humans. How can people be so stupid as not to realize this?
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  198. Altai says:
    @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

    Because you can have functioning multi-ethnic states so long as one core group clearly and unapologetically dominates it. Look at modern Iran, Russia or China.

    Americans don’t (At least not yet) have a concept of an ethnostate, it’s less clear how such ideas would work. Unless you’re willing to go all ethnostate, you can’t allow identity politics of any form, hence Sailer-style citizenism.

    The problem is people like Stephens and Brooks mean ‘everybody else except white gentiles and maybe gentiles in general (All those black and latino BSDers) can have identity politics’ when they say ‘citizenism’.

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    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    Yes, yes, yes! Like the US before WWII, when white gentiles, especially the much-maligned WASPs, both dominated and set the tone.
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  199. Forbes says:
    @Frank DeScushin

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history.
     
    Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe because that's how people tend to naturally organize. That natural segregation is not a "temptation", it's a tribal instinct. That natural segregation is not "menacing", it's been the norm throughout history for various tribes across the globe.

    What's "menacing" is the plan to disregard human nature and history in order to ram into place a new world view that is sure to cause extreme social tension and conflict.

    Menacing temptation–or–natural human instinct and practice?

    Who ya gonna believe? Brooks? Or your lying eyes?

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  200. 3g4me says:
    @Frau Katze
    I'm amazed at how many leftists can't draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we'll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn't see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she's as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

    @103 Frau Katz: “They looked at me as if to say, yep, she’s as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.”

    So your “I’m a goodwhite who doesn’t use icky racial slurs” virtue signalling proved insufficient with your very own SJW daughter and you’re looking for empathy/sympathy? So sorry; I’m fresh out.

    HBD: A little is not enough. If you can’t apply it to yourself and your own group as well, you’re merely a wannabe virtue signaller but doing a piss-poor job of it.

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    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    Who said I was looking for sympathy? I'm not.

    My main concern is why the SJWs are the way they are.

    In this case, I think they're ignorant. They haven't been studying Islam since 9/11 like me. And I branched out to related fields. 9/11 convenienty occurred just as the kids were moving out on their own.

    So I had time,

    They both work and have two young kids so they wouldn't have time, even if they were inclined to.

    When I was working with two young children I had little spare time.

    And your reply has unnecessary unpleasant tone.. Why?

    Have you raised your own children to be HBD-aware?

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  201. Forbes says:
    @bgates
    McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    Insensitively, I said as much to a friend with only a high school diploma. Suddenly I saw her face freeze up...I quickly asked her if she wanted to talk about something else that's essential for democracy and she anxiously nodded yes and we discussed Mexicans.

    Yes, but did you have it on a baguette, or perhaps challah?

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  202. @guest
    I knew I shouldn't have hyperbolized there. Just forget I said "white nationalist." Point is, the line they're choked into forming is further to the right than before. Among other reasons, that's because Brooks pretends they're already farther to the right than they are.

    That’s a good point, though not sure how much left/right has to do with it.

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  203. utu says:
    @ThreeCranes
    Funny, I scanned McCain's speech by following the link Brooks provided and not only did I not see the word "paideia" mentioned, but I didn't see any phrase or train of thought that could be charitably construed as even tangentially related to that concept.

    From Wiki;

    "The practical aspects of this education included subjects subsumed under the modern designation of the liberal arts (rhetoric, grammar and philosophy are examples), as well as scientific disciplines like arithmetic and medicine. An ideal and successful member of the polis would possess intellectual, moral and physical refinement, so training in gymnastics and wrestling was valued for its effect on the body alongside the moral education which the Greeks believed was imparted by the study of music, poetry and philosophy. This approach to the rearing of a well-rounded Greek male was common to the Greek-speaking world, with the exception of Sparta where a rigid and militaristic form of education known as the agoge was practiced."

    Now be honest. As you read this definition did McCain come to mind? Of course not. McCain's entire piece is a tribute to his military experiences. Seems to me that McCain would better be understood as the product of the "rigid and militaristic" education that was practiced in Sparta.

    What is sacrilegious about Brooks' hallucinogenic ramblings is the criminal injustice he does to the Greeks. I mean, come on. McCain as embodying the greatest qualities of the Greeks? The mind boggles.

    I will give Brooks credit for having mastered one small piece of paideia and that is the art of Rhetoric. Unlike Logic which is concerned with accurate ordering of thought, Rhetoric is the art of persuasive speaking so as to make the worse cause appear the better--today's public relations, advertising or lawyering fit the bill. It is shysterism.

    Brooks is too (((tribal))) to be a Greek. He is everything Socrates argued against.

    Power struggle between Greeks and Jews in antiquity was happening on all possible planes. Here is one example of cultural propaganda struggle for the narrative capture:

    Not less than the Stoics did the Sophists detest the Jews. But the causes of their hatred were not religious, but, I should say, rather literary. From Ptolemy Philadelphus, until the middle of the third century, the Alexandrian Jews, with the intent of sustaining and strengthening their propaganda, gave themselves to forging all texts which were capable of lending support to their cause. The verses of Aeschylus, of Sophocles, of Euripides, the pretended oracles of Orpheus, preserved in Aristobulus and the Stromata of Clement of Alexandria were thus made to glorify the one God and the Sabbath. Historians were falsified or credited with the authorship of books they had never written. It is thus that a History of the Jews was published under the name of Hecataeus of Abdera. The most important of these inventions was the Sibylline oracles, a fabrication of the Alexandrian Jews, which prophesied the future advent of the reign of the one God.

    ANTI-JUDAISM IN ANTIQUITY

    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lazare-bernard/1894/antisemitism/ch02.htm

    The tension between Athens and Jerusalem in modern times is well illustrated by the transformation of Allan Bloom in Saul’s Bellow final novel Ravelstein. Spoiler alert: Jerusalem wins.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If there was an afterlife I'd love to be at a conversation between Paul of Tarsus (whom, I believe, is universally conceded to have actually existed, whereas Jesus of Nazareth is considered legendary by a minority of plausibly educated opinion) and Revilo Oliver.
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  204. Broski says:

    OT, and a week old, but why hadn’t I seen this before? It says much of what is to say about Obama and, by extension, TNC’s eight years they were in power:

    https://qz.com/1102633/former-us-president-barack-obama-picks-kehinde-wiley-to-paint-his-official-presidential-portrait-for-the-smithsonian-national-portrait-gallery/

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  205. MBlanc46 says:
    @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    You clearly haven’t been reading your Mortimer Adler.

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  206. MBlanc46 says:
    @J1234
    Progressives and thinly veiled progressives hold up Wendell Willke as their ideal Republican archetype, the person who they think conservative politicians should pattern themselves after, and McCain is the closest thing to Wendell Willke to come out of the Republican party in the last 70 years. There's a reason Ted Kennedy tried to talk McCain into switching parties 20 years ago: he was already 80% there.

    David Brooks must surely realize that he himself (along with McCain) is so ten years ago from the perspective of most conservatives, whether they're Trump supporters or not. Or maybe the self-contained political and social biosphere of the NYT keeps that reality from ever reaching him. It's hard to believe he thinks anyone is really listening to him when he advocates for the worn out, sold out and cashed out McCain.

    McCain as Wendell Willkie. Brilliant. I hope that he hears about it.

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  207. MBlanc46 says:
    @anon
    I am against human rights.

    In what could be considered a bookend to the frankly bizarre Brooks/McCain OpEd (Paideia ???), we are lectured in the World section of todays NYTs about the horrors of a new, hybrid evil: illiberal democracy.


    YANGON, Myanmar — Nearly a decade into Myanmar’s transition out of military rule, the country’s once-celebrated transition toward democracy is hardening into something very different from what activists and world leaders had hoped for.

    Citizens select their leaders, but without the robust institutions or norms like pluralism, universal rights or tolerance necessary for democracy to function.
     

    It wasn't that long ago that Myanmar was considered as backward and oppressive as North Korea. What activists hoped for? When have activists ever been satisfied with any real world outcome?

    The civilian state, led by Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, is rapidly centralizing power as checks and balances erode. It is growing oppressive in some areas and weak in others, ceding public space to extremists. Meanwhile, the military still controls important government functions and a perpetual quota of Parliament seats.
     
    She is 'our guy' .... Daw Aung San Suu Kyi ... who we awarded a Nobel Peace Prize as a brave leader resisting the totalitarian dictatorship of Myanmar's Military. But if her leadership fails to check every box on the lengthy list of requirements to quality as a true liberal democracy, she has turned heel and become a fascist.

    The country appears to be converging on a democratic-authoritarian hybrid, formally known as illiberal democracy, which often resembles mob rule. It is a version of majority rule that excludes minorities, curtails freedoms and governs arbitrarily.
     
    There are, believe it or not, 135 recognized ethnic groups in Myanmar. There are roughly 50 million people and a million or so Muslims, living on the border with Bangladesh, who have problems with the Buddhist majority in the region.

    The experts, activists, and global leaders are shocked, positively shocked that the harsh treatment of this Muslim group is actually popular among the citizens of Myanmar. There is an utter disregard for the level of poverty in that area of an generally poor country. Other experts have pointed out that it is 'not helpful' to apply terms like genocide to the conflict. But, of course, there is a global anti-genocide bureaucracy, ready and waiting to step in and call out bad behavior. They need something to do ever few years to justify their existence. It isn't simply a problem, its an opportunity to do something or do anything.

    Its a Buddhist country. We know how violent Buddhists tend to be. It's not like they are excluding all 135 recognized ethnic groups. It is a long, messy story and I won't try to summarize it. Other than to say that Myanmar argues that most of them are relatively recent arrivals (Post WW 2) and the Muslims argue that there is evidence that (at least a few of them) have lived in Myanmar for centuries.

    So back to Human Rights. It seems like every stupid thing the US has gotten itself into has had some sort of Human Rights justification. In Iraq, the big lie was WMDs, but there was a constant argument that Saddam was violating everyone's human rights. Kurds? He nuked them, no? There were others that I can't remember. Some ethnic farmers of some sort that were harmed by a hydro project.

    And on and on.

    No one asked me. But the next time someone wants me to sign a petition relating to some atrocity or another, I'm simply going to say that I don't believe in human rights.

    I’m pretty sure that there aren’t many, or perhaps any, human rights.

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  208. Kylie says:
    @Frau Katze
    I'm amazed at how many leftists can't draw the obvious conclusion: if everyone has a right to move to the West, we'll be swamped. Welfare will unaffordable. It will be awful

    Yet it came up at Thanksgiving dinner (colder Canada celebrates it on the first Monday in October).

    My daughter couldn't see a problem with simply giving all current illegals in the US citizenship.

    I explain that Trump was suggesting using a system similar to Canada (a point based system) and the left was out to shoot down anything he suggested. My daughter seemed to think every country south of US border was so dangerous they would qualify as refugees.

    She did agree that in her upbringing she never heard me use racial slurs or make disparaging remarks about any group. I told her that I had become suspicious of Islam after years of reading about it since 9/11.

    Her husband said his mother was always carrying on about throwing money at natives. They looked at me as if to say, yep, she's as bad as his mother. I changed the topic.

    Ugh. My MIL is the same as those two clueless young people. My husband repeated her latest left-wing idiocy to me yesterday and I flat out told him she was as dumb as a box of rocks.

    Nowadays I have zero tolerance for being lectured by people who are less intelligent, less educated and less experienced than I am.

    Good luck at your next family dinner.

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  209. Broski says:
    @Hanoi Paris Hilton
    If it's the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    The shiksa goddesses strike again! Really, could Brooks be any more of a stereotype?

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    • Replies: @Broski
    Ha! For once the shrews at Wonkette write something entertaining, a screed from an angry Jewish woman about Brooks's new wife stealing him with her "youthful puss":

    https://wonkette.com/616561/is-david-brooks-being-compelled-to-christ-by-new-wifes-vagina-we-are-just-asking-questions
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  210. @Daniel H
    >>Third and most important, McCain still believes that paideia is essential for democracy.

    If "paideia" is so important and essential, and liberals like Brooks and Stephens believe it to be so, how is it 'Ive reached well into my 5th decade of life, been educated at fine schools (some elite), read much on history, civics, etc., read the daily newspapers "of record", and this is the very first time that I have encountered this word?

    Are you familiar with the different words for love in Greek, agape, eros, and more? In the same vein, there are different words for education, and paideia is one of them. There is no distinct word in English for calling out the uneducated, uncultured, and lacking in civic awareness, without that criticism coming across as extremely elitist. But Greeks can lament the lack of paideia in someone, or the erosion of paideia in society, without a hint of snobbery; in fact, you might scorn a highly educated person for having no paideia instilled in them. So although it may sound pretentious to you, paideia could be a useful word for the English language.

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    • Replies: @guest
    If you can call someone out for lacking paideia in Greek without sounding elitist, good for them. But that word can't be useful for English-speakers--if in fact we need an unpretentious word with which elitists can denigrate supposedly un-American Philistines--partly for the very reason it's Greek. Though obviously much of our language is Greek in origin, and especially our pretentious terminology. A natural consequence of drilling our upper classes in the language for centuries.

    Nit until "paideia" drifts into common usage, if it ever will, would it be useful for unpretentious purposes. In the meantime, it will unavoidably sound pretentious, because it is.

    That's a Catch-22, there, which can best be avoided by finding an English word to better fit the bill. Because importing unfamiliar (to most people) Greek terminology doesn't help the situation. Though it's better when you remember the audience is liberal NYT readers, likely to be pretentious in the Brooks manner themselves.

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  211. MBlanc46 says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "The late Christopher Hitchens was another self-described “ex-Trotskite”"

    Was C Hitchens really ever an "ex-Trotskyite"?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/07/the-old-man/302984/

    Here he pretty much declares it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0pkWQ-DwgmA

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    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    The great thing for Chris Hitchens, Tony Blair and the rest is that Leon Trotsky himself gave the merger of Trotskyism and Americanism his explicit blessing. In 1934 he said a merger or fusion of American consumer culture and his version of revolutionary communism could work wonderfully:

    If America Should Go Communist
    (August 1934)

    From Liberty, March 23, 1935.
    Reprinted in Fourth International, Vol.12 No.2, March-April 1951, pp.54-57.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1934/08/ame.htm

    It seems like the OSS and CIA types thought this was just the bees' knees too: "heck, these guys hate Stalin more than we do!". My first instinct is to think the Anglosphericals who embraced Trotskyites were fools to consider them soulmates but were they wrong?

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  212. Jack D says:
    @Stealth
    It's interesting that Brooks mentions John McCain. I've always thought of them, at the same time, as two people who are probably despised by everyone, because they have basically nothing to offer anybody. Both nominal conservatives, they've spent their careers betraying conservative vote. Brooks is probably motivated by higher loyalties, but McCain is truly shameless. John McCain has always been ready to sell out to liberals who dote on him when they need him and crap on him when they don't.

    Brooks and McCain – the co-captains of the Washington Generals.

    Democrats admire a gracious loser like McCain when he is a Republican. They want their own candidates to be angry losers.

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    • Agree: Johann Ricke
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  213. Broski says:
    @Frank DeScushin

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history.
     
    Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe because that's how people tend to naturally organize. That natural segregation is not a "temptation", it's a tribal instinct. That natural segregation is not "menacing", it's been the norm throughout history for various tribes across the globe.

    What's "menacing" is the plan to disregard human nature and history in order to ram into place a new world view that is sure to cause extreme social tension and conflict.

    What’s “menacing” is the plan to disregard human nature and history in order to ram into place a new world view that is sure to cause extreme social tension and conflict.

    From Marxism, to Gould/Lewontin’s blank slatism, to the extreme capitalism of the Chicago school (humans are rationally calculating automatons who are subject to an infallible and automatically functioning invisible hand), to Freudianism (we can talk our way to perfection), to feminism (we can make men and women the same), most of the extreme, delusional movements of post-Enlightenment history have had as their animating force Jewish desire to transcend the problems inherent in Jewishness and its attendant pathologies.

    The glaring exception–national socialism–was an extreme, largely delusional gentile attempt to solve the perceived problems of Jewishness.

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  214. Jack D says:
    @jorge videla (BGI volunteer)
    richard pryor said that when he visited africa (i think nigeria), the locals thought he was italian.

    i assume michael johnson is an african american and not a caribbean import, and therefore has significant european rapist genes.

    fredericks is 100% african afaik. look at the contrast.

    http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/frankie-fredericks-of-namibia-helps-michael-johnson-celebrate-his-picture-id72561010

    i wonder if steve is the only HBDer who can admit he raped a nun?

    Pryor said this for comedic effect. Even in Nigeria, Pryor was clearly African. However, there are certain Africans (like Obama’s father) who are so black that they appear blue-black. Every once in a while you see an African-American who is really that black but the average one has maybe 20% white genes and is not that dark.

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  215. Broski says:
    @3g4me
    @56 Vinay: "Whatever the sins of immigration policy, it’s certainly *preserving* the scarcity of American citizenship. World population growth has consistently outstripped US population growth for at least a century."

    Yeah, gee, we are merely third in the world in terms of population. We really should be working harder to keep up with international power-houses India and China by importing more Indians and Chinese. Oh wait, we are! And meanwhile quality and satisfaction with life are decreasing and intercultural conflict and stress are increasing.

    Hmmmn, wasn't there a rather recent thread where AM asserted my point and the famously non-tribal Jack D felt compelled to "correct" her?

    And besides which, Steve has noted that White people neither breed nor thrive in captivity (or extremely crowded locales). Your cultural heritage is obviously different - yet another example of how "citizenism" is an incoherent philosophy resting on a belief in multiculturalism utterly at odds with the reality of HBD.

    Exactly. Per capita quality of live is what matters, not total quantity of humans. How can people be so stupid as not to realize this?

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  216. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Massimo Heitor

    Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.
     
    Religions are absolutely tribes, they are the most powerful form of tribe. Citizenship is a tribal unit too Sailer. Either humans rally as a tribe or they don't.

    Persuade rival tribes that their noble ideals compel them to disband and be conquered but make sure your own tribe fights for survival. Or argue/pretend that your tribe isn't really a tribe when persuading other tribes to disband and fade away.

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history. But McCain seeks to preserve our traditional rallying point — our ideals.

     

    Humans are inherently wired to be tribal. Political party is a dominant tribal unit. Religion, race/ethnicity, linguistic group, nationality, and of course, family are tribes. Sports teams are a trivial entertainment form of tribe.

    And this delusional fantasy that the American tradition and core value has been anti-tribe... America has always been racist. Abe Lincoln was racist, Woodrow Wilson was racist, LBJ was racist... pretty much, all humanity is racist. The Left has shouted that to the moon, and they are right. But now that it serves their purpose, America's core value and identity is no more loyalty to fellow citizens than random strangers, and some kind of anti-white racial politics.

    Religions are absolutely tribes

    If you define “tribe” as “cohesive group of people”, yes. But then anything human beings can be rallied around becomes automatically a tribe.

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  217. guest says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    The weird thing is, the Republican establishment doesn't seem to care that demographic trends spell its doom. Why? Is it because the GOPe has no real commitment to the policies it espouses? Is it because individuals in the establishment figure they can always retire to a comfortable sinecure somewhere as long as they mouth the establishment line? Is it because at the establishment level the parties have no important differences anyway? I think the answers to all those questions is "yes."

    “Why?”

    Because party establishments consistently choose their own power over their party winning, if the two are ever in conflict. As they are now, because the only way for the Republican Party to keep winning is to switch strategies, which means bringing in “reform” candidates like Trump. The more of them come in, and the better they do, the less authority the old leaders have. It’s simple, really

    I’m not saying the GOPe would be content to be reduced to winning local dog catcher races, so long as they were the ones receiving the spoils. But they might be happy about the party losing national significance. Because the point of political parties isn’t to win everything they can all the time. If you know that, their behavior makes a lot more sense.

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  218. Broski says:
    @Broski

    If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.
     
    The shiksa goddesses strike again! Really, could Brooks be any more of a stereotype?

    Ha! For once the shrews at Wonkette write something entertaining, a screed from an angry Jewish woman about Brooks’s new wife stealing him with her “youthful puss”:

    https://wonkette.com/616561/is-david-brooks-being-compelled-to-christ-by-new-wifes-vagina-we-are-just-asking-questions

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  219. anonguy says:
    @Bugg
    Recall McCain singing gleefully "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran". This is the paragon of smart foreign policy?
    Despite no financial acumen at all he suspended his campaign to solve the 2008 Wall Street meltdown; go out and buy some Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns today. His campaign's big idea regarding Palin was to have her spend a day with Katie Couric. He refused to discuss Obama's college record, his travels to Pakistan, Obama's gayer than West Village during the Halloween parade boyfriend on the couch picture, the Chicago gay scene, Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers.In short, McCain gave up. And really as bad as Obama was, McCain would have been a terrible president.The MSM trots out braindead McCain as a conservative when ever it's useful, and he loves the attention even after getting played every time. McCain's idea of conservative is what ever he thinks is a good idea right now.There is no governing philosophy past what ever McCain heard or saw in the last 10 minutes.

    And really as bad as Obama was, McCain would have been a terrible president.

    Obama kept us out of war with Iran. For that alone, his presidency was a success. Romney or McCain would have had us in many more mideast wars.

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  220. anonguy says:
    @Art Deco
    On the off chance this isn't a put on: McCain did not grow up in a particularly affluent family, but the Navy does provide a certain sort of security for those who make their life in it and his family in particular had considerable status ("military royalty"). There are some odd lacunae in his Naval career (he was permitted to remain on active duty even though he has some abnormal large-motor and small-motor deficits). N.B. McCain married a woman with an 8-figure sum of money behind her, after separating from his 1st wife.

    Re Trump: he was granted a I-Y deferment for a minor medical issue. About 12% of those of age to be examined for military service were granted I-Y deferments at that time, or over 200,000 a year. You could be re-examined for induction in as little as 90 days. I knew a man who was issued one for eczema on his insteps. About a year-and-a-half after his induction physical, the draft lottery was instituted and Trump's number was high enough that he wasn't ever going to be called up. There was no chicanery in this sequence of events and there were no strings pulled on his behalf. Everyone might be more impressed with Trump if he had enlisted, but there's a certain amount of distance between 'might be more impressed' and the contention he did something dishonest or dishonorable. The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders' eligibility).

    The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders’ eligibility).

    Don’t forget Pat Buchanan, my favorite right wing loudmouth shirker.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Military service should be a requirement to be Commander in Chief, in my opinion.
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  221. Alden says:
    @The Man From K Street
    Also never mind that the padeia he speaks of has never been practiced outside of the Greek polises, early Roman Republic or the medieval Italian/Swiss/German republican communes that were all of course tribally homogeneous.

    Most Italian towns still call themselves Communes instead of Citta or Paese.

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  222. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymouse
    Wow! A wannabe classicist and a jew hater, 1 and the same. Has anyone tabulated the percentage of jew hate comments in serious blogs? About jew hate: it seems that that opinion waxes and wanes as all climates of opinion might be expected to. My sense is that jew hate abated after WW II and reached its nadir after those plucky Israelis fought and won the Six Day War in 1967. Afterwards, it grew back, like an intractable weed, presumably in step with a growing resentment of the ongoing economic success of the state of Israel and of individual jews all over the world whose gift for making money is a continual astonishment.

    Another explanation of burgeoning jew hate from otherwise sensible people is their sensible resentment at the predominance of American jewish journalists and public voices of the anti-patriotic left. I googled "top left-wing journalists" and found a list from the Daily Beast of the top 25 lefties. Of those no less than 15 were jews. The Daily Beast also provided a list of the top right-wing journalists. Of those only 4 were jews, 1 of them dead (Andrew Breitbart), 1 of them David Brooks who is actually an anti-patriotic globalist and doesn't rightfully belong on that list.

    As 1 of ((them)), I am personally concerned about the dynamics of jew hate. Is it growing? Some interested individual or entity should survey the comment sections of online major media and the serious blogs on an ongoing basis to detect how jew hate is trending.

    I don’t hate Jews. I don’t want Jews to stop being Jewish.

    I do believe we must be able to openly criticize Jews, and any and all other groups, as groups and they must be free to criticize us.

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    • Replies: @Moses
    Nein.

    Any criticism of Jews ist verboten and “anti-Jew.” We will slur and ruin you until you submit.
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  223. Alden says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    Is Florence King still alive?

    Am I the only person on this blog who's read her boddice-ripper novel set in the Roman period?

    She died recently. I loved her articles in National Review. She has a book out of her articles. Never read her romance novel.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    I wouldn't call it romance. It was written very early in her career, but it dovetails nicely with Game/PUA/alt-right themes about women.
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  224. @Cagey Beast
    True. I remember the coolly dispassionate, militantly secular French encyclopedia I had in high school listed Jesus and his Apostles each as a "Hellenized Jew". The point being was that Christianity was rightly considered a Hellenizing heresy of Judaism. The internet neo-pagans say Christianity corrupted Europe with Judaism but the case is far stronger that Christianity is the result of Indo-European civilization "corrupting" Judaism.

    I don’t think that Jesus was a Hellenized Jew. That honor goes to Paul, who created what is incorrectly called “Christianity.” Should be called “Paulianity.”

    A good book to read about this is James Tabor’s “Paul and Jesus”:

    https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jesus-Apostle-Transformed-Christianity/dp/1439123322?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1439123322

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    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I just had a quick look at James Tabor's Wikipedia page and will have to graciously decline your recommendation.

    He was a consultant for the film, The Lost Tomb of Jesus produced by James Cameron and Simcha Jacobovici and shown in March 2007. In 2012 Tabor published, with co-author Simcha Jacobovici, The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity ...
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tabor

    Simcha Jacobovici is vile. He's the Howard Stern of archaeology. Anyone who could collaborate with him is a collaborator, in every sense of the word.
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  225. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonguy

    The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders’ eligibility).
     
    Don't forget Pat Buchanan, my favorite right wing loudmouth shirker.

    Military service should be a requirement to be Commander in Chief, in my opinion.

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    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, 'cause service turns everyone into pacificists like McCain, so voting too. Actually, why don't we go full Sparta, and just make our society based on war prep.
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  226. Second, McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story. Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

    How about rallying around the US constitution and its specification for 50 states with fifty different dominant cultures and 50 different brands of Republican politics?

    You know, the multiculturalism that is specified in the Law of Land?

    The anti-constitution phonies calling themselves multiculturalist are peddling their victim cult totalitarianism as a universal utopian ideal.

    When McCain takes the oath of office he swears an oath to defend and protect the US constitution, nothing else.

    McCain is a liar, as are all other American leftist and neocons.

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  227. guest says:
    @J1234
    Progressives and thinly veiled progressives hold up Wendell Willke as their ideal Republican archetype, the person who they think conservative politicians should pattern themselves after, and McCain is the closest thing to Wendell Willke to come out of the Republican party in the last 70 years. There's a reason Ted Kennedy tried to talk McCain into switching parties 20 years ago: he was already 80% there.

    David Brooks must surely realize that he himself (along with McCain) is so ten years ago from the perspective of most conservatives, whether they're Trump supporters or not. Or maybe the self-contained political and social biosphere of the NYT keeps that reality from ever reaching him. It's hard to believe he thinks anyone is really listening to him when he advocates for the worn out, sold out and cashed out McCain.

    Wilkie is perhaps the most suspicious presidential candidate in American history. In the midst of one of the largest national mass political movements ever–America First!–he rose up out of nowhere to deprive the electorate of a choice on one of the biggest issues ever: entry into WWII. This seems like moot point, considering after Pearl Harbor even isolationist would’ve gone to war. But of course Pearl Harbor didn’t fall out of the clear blue sky, and just because WWII is a given doesn’t mean insanities like “unconditional surrender,” terror bombing, and Yalta were.

    Aside from Palin, McCain’s candidacy is highly suspicious. He didn’t pop up out of nowhere, and in fact had a long priming period in the national consciousness. He was “next in line,” in the idiotic Washington manner of Bob Dole, since 2000, and had the phony “maverick” reputation. But it didn’t seem like he cared about winning. The biggest moment of the election, when he unilaterally decided to suspend his campaign because economic emergency, certainly backs that up.

    Which begs the question: what happened with Palin? Did his handlers expect her to be a dud? Was it a sop to feminism that backfired? Were they truly caught off guard? Or were they actually trying, and the rest of the campaign was pure incompetence?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Palin had good intentions as far as the future of the country was concerned, but was woefully unqualified by normal standards. Her family life is a mess: her husband is a goof, her daughter got knocked up outside of marriage at an inopportune time, and she herself wound up pregnant at 43 after four kids and 20 years of marriage. I'm guessing that was an oops.

    Oopses in such matters are not a characteristic of anyone I want with the football.

    And she knew the kid was a Down's syndrome child before birth. If someone , regardless of stated religion, doesn't have the....what do you call it??....to pull the trigger on such a creature , they may be "really good and moral", but so are the nuns that take Halligan bars to the bomb bay doors of B-52s. I want a President who I know will order the keys turned instead of turning the other cheek.

    , @J1234
    Very true about Bob Dole. Clinton just cruised through that election. I liked Dole as a personality, but the whole, "It's my turn to be president," attitude that his campaign seemed to have was in line with Hillary's attitude in 2016 (though Hillary was much worse about it.) Still, it pained me greatly to see baby boomer party animal Bill Clinton defeat Kansas WW2 vet Bob Dole.
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  228. @Altai

    you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.
     
    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they're fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.

    The other side of the coin is that people are more willing to pay higher taxes to help people that they feel a connection with.

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  229. alexander says:
    @Cagey Beast
    Yes, same here. The word “paideia” sort of rang a bell for me but that's about it. I like to pride myself on knowing how to pronounce "Nicomachean" so not knowing “paideia” hit me pretty hard.

    You will recover.

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  230. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @utu
    Power struggle between Greeks and Jews in antiquity was happening on all possible planes. Here is one example of cultural propaganda struggle for the narrative capture:

    Not less than the Stoics did the Sophists detest the Jews. But the causes of their hatred were not religious, but, I should say, rather literary. From Ptolemy Philadelphus, until the middle of the third century, the Alexandrian Jews, with the intent of sustaining and strengthening their propaganda, gave themselves to forging all texts which were capable of lending support to their cause. The verses of Aeschylus, of Sophocles, of Euripides, the pretended oracles of Orpheus, preserved in Aristobulus and the Stromata of Clement of Alexandria were thus made to glorify the one God and the Sabbath. Historians were falsified or credited with the authorship of books they had never written. It is thus that a History of the Jews was published under the name of Hecataeus of Abdera. The most important of these inventions was the Sibylline oracles, a fabrication of the Alexandrian Jews, which prophesied the future advent of the reign of the one God.
     
    ANTI-JUDAISM IN ANTIQUITY
    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/lazare-bernard/1894/antisemitism/ch02.htm

    The tension between Athens and Jerusalem in modern times is well illustrated by the transformation of Allan Bloom in Saul's Bellow final novel Ravelstein. Spoiler alert: Jerusalem wins.

    If there was an afterlife I’d love to be at a conversation between Paul of Tarsus (whom, I believe, is universally conceded to have actually existed, whereas Jesus of Nazareth is considered legendary by a minority of plausibly educated opinion) and Revilo Oliver.

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  231. Alden says:
    @Kyle Kopelovich
    Also we are not a "Christian country" . The slaves that your ancestors brought over were mostly Muslims and they built this country. If anything, we are a Judeo-Christian country but lets not forget about the millions of Muslims who were brought here on slave ships and forcibly converted to Christianity.

    Historians agree that only about 650,000 Africans were brought to the United States on slave ships.

    The millions we have today are millions and 12.5 percent of the country are due to natural increase,including from Whites, almost all men.

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  232. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Altai

    you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.
     
    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they're fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.

    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they’re fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.

    After a while they corrupt the populace, but if it is sufficiently isolated it corrects itself. But when outlanders can get in it’s suicidal.

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  233. @Altai

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”
     
    Because you can have functioning multi-ethnic states so long as one core group clearly and unapologetically dominates it. Look at modern Iran, Russia or China.

    Americans don't (At least not yet) have a concept of an ethnostate, it's less clear how such ideas would work. Unless you're willing to go all ethnostate, you can't allow identity politics of any form, hence Sailer-style citizenism.

    The problem is people like Stephens and Brooks mean 'everybody else except white gentiles and maybe gentiles in general (All those black and latino BSDers) can have identity politics' when they say 'citizenism'.

    Yes, yes, yes! Like the US before WWII, when white gentiles, especially the much-maligned WASPs, both dominated and set the tone.

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  234. guest says:
    @Cagey Beast
    No I don't think he ever was but he did play cute about it, the same way Tony Blair does now.

    Both McCain and Bush Jr are Sunbelt silver spoon scions of powerful WASPy families who got Jewish nerds to do their homework for them for so long that it shaped their worldview. The end result is two rich old bastards who want permanent revolution and internationalism abroad and Mexican PRI party style creature comforts at home. By "at home" I mean their actual residences and those of their immediate family and friends.

    The Clinton-Bush era consensus is the American PRI in practice. It's like the Trotsky friendly Institutionalized Revolutionary Party of Mexico but for their larger and more powerful northern neighbour.

    “I mean their actual residences”

    Juan didn’t even know how many homes he owned, remember? When asked during the ’08 campaign, McCain told a reporter his staff would have to get back to him. That’s the world they inhabit.

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  235. Svigor says:

    Here we go; Jews peddling their Narrative again. Ellis Island Schmaltz; America started when Jews got here, and the Jewish vision for America is THE American vision.

    Brooks and the rest of the Jews peddling this crap can kiss my ass. My line’s been here since before there was a USA. When it was a British colony. They and their kind (BRITISH STOCK) explored, mapped, tamed, colonized, and conquered this country. Brooks and the Jews came much later, after all the work was done.

    … Second, McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story. Human beings can be rallied around one of three things: religion, tribe or ideals.

    Or two of those things, or three. Really, tribalism encompasses all three. E.g., Jewry is a tribal group, but they also have a tribal religion, and secular Jewry’s “religion” is anti-antisemitism and Jewish Supremacy (rightism in Israel, leftism in the diaspora). WNs are similar; we unite around ideals, not just race; we plan to go around, over, or through whites who refuse us our self-determination, equal rights, too.

    Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe, which has always been the menacing temptation throughout our history.

    Said the atheist Jew who is proud of his son in the IDF, and his wife who converted and changed her name to a Jewish one. Brooks is a Zionist; he’s fully down with the menacing temptation of Jewishness, and its 2500 year history. Jewry is tribal, and Brooks is totally down with that.

    But he’s also a Jewish Supremacist, so he advocates leftism fur de goyim.

    Of course these two love McCain; McCain is the ultimate Shabbos Goy.

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  236. guest says:
    @AnotherGuessModel
    Are you familiar with the different words for love in Greek, agape, eros, and more? In the same vein, there are different words for education, and paideia is one of them. There is no distinct word in English for calling out the uneducated, uncultured, and lacking in civic awareness, without that criticism coming across as extremely elitist. But Greeks can lament the lack of paideia in someone, or the erosion of paideia in society, without a hint of snobbery; in fact, you might scorn a highly educated person for having no paideia instilled in them. So although it may sound pretentious to you, paideia could be a useful word for the English language.

    If you can call someone out for lacking paideia in Greek without sounding elitist, good for them. But that word can’t be useful for English-speakers–if in fact we need an unpretentious word with which elitists can denigrate supposedly un-American Philistines–partly for the very reason it’s Greek. Though obviously much of our language is Greek in origin, and especially our pretentious terminology. A natural consequence of drilling our upper classes in the language for centuries.

    Nit until “paideia” drifts into common usage, if it ever will, would it be useful for unpretentious purposes. In the meantime, it will unavoidably sound pretentious, because it is.

    That’s a Catch-22, there, which can best be avoided by finding an English word to better fit the bill. Because importing unfamiliar (to most people) Greek terminology doesn’t help the situation. Though it’s better when you remember the audience is liberal NYT readers, likely to be pretentious in the Brooks manner themselves.

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  237. Svigor says:

    The troops seem to love Trump. The little data I have says they voted heavily for him.

    Jews seem to loathe the President, but their criticism of anyone’s military service seems a bit hollow; Jews’ participation rate in the US military seems to be about 1/10th their share of the population. If they really cared, they’d be calling out their own tribe.

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  238. Forbes says:
    @Art Deco
    On the off chance this isn't a put on: McCain did not grow up in a particularly affluent family, but the Navy does provide a certain sort of security for those who make their life in it and his family in particular had considerable status ("military royalty"). There are some odd lacunae in his Naval career (he was permitted to remain on active duty even though he has some abnormal large-motor and small-motor deficits). N.B. McCain married a woman with an 8-figure sum of money behind her, after separating from his 1st wife.

    Re Trump: he was granted a I-Y deferment for a minor medical issue. About 12% of those of age to be examined for military service were granted I-Y deferments at that time, or over 200,000 a year. You could be re-examined for induction in as little as 90 days. I knew a man who was issued one for eczema on his insteps. About a year-and-a-half after his induction physical, the draft lottery was instituted and Trump's number was high enough that he wasn't ever going to be called up. There was no chicanery in this sequence of events and there were no strings pulled on his behalf. Everyone might be more impressed with Trump if he had enlisted, but there's a certain amount of distance between 'might be more impressed' and the contention he did something dishonest or dishonorable. The notable presidential candidates in recent decades with troublesome service records have been Pat Robertson (whose Senator-father evidently pulled strings to get him pulled out of a hazardous assignment), Bill Clinton (who executed a series of maneuvers which allowed him to shirk his ROTC service obligations), and Bernie Sanders (who hired a draft lawyer to press a bogus claim for CO status; the lawyer managed to win so many continuances from the draft board that he ran out the clock on Sanders' eligibility).

    Clinton’s evasion is actually worse than described. On receipt of his induction notice, he sent the chairman of the draft board a letter stating he would join ROTC at the University of Arkansas where he was to attend Law School. The chairman quashed the notice based on Clinton’s promised service–which never happened as he went off to Yale Law School.

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  239. Forbes says:
    @Nate Meissnerstein
    Steve Sailer is kind of racist and doesn't support opportunities for my friends of ethnic minorities . Bomb Iran and fuck you Nazis too and if you speak ill of me I'll block your racist ass.

    For a first comment, you should up your game a bit–”racist” twice, a “Nazi,” and a “fuck you” is not much of an effort…

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  240. @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    I don't think that Jesus was a Hellenized Jew. That honor goes to Paul, who created what is incorrectly called "Christianity." Should be called "Paulianity."

    A good book to read about this is James Tabor's "Paul and Jesus":

    https://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jesus-Apostle-Transformed-Christianity/dp/1439123322?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=1439123322

    I just had a quick look at James Tabor’s Wikipedia page and will have to graciously decline your recommendation.

    He was a consultant for the film, The Lost Tomb of Jesus produced by James Cameron and Simcha Jacobovici and shown in March 2007. In 2012 Tabor published, with co-author Simcha Jacobovici, The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity …

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tabor

    Simcha Jacobovici is vile. He’s the Howard Stern of archaeology. Anyone who could collaborate with him is a collaborator, in every sense of the word.

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    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    Well, you piqued by interest regarding Mr. Jacobovici. I found this article:

    http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Court-rules-that-film-on-Jesus-tomb-marriage-to-Mary-Magdalene-was-not-a-fraud-405365

    I read the book about the supposed Jesus tomb and wasn't convinced, but very much liked the book about Paul and Jesus.

    Thanks.
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  241. Svigor says:

    If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.

    Barry Bonds is an anti-white racist married to a white woman. The left will gladly tell you about all the awful racist whites who banged their black slaves. Your idea seems to be No True Scotsman, Princess and the Pea Edition (he’s not Jewish Supremacist enough for you, so he’s not a Jew).

    It’s not exactly un-Jewish to marry a Jew, have kids, then marry a non-Jew, and have no kids. Okay, it might not work for Kahanists. (I know Jewish converts aren’t really Jews, but we can’t really say that out loud, so we’ll leave that to the side; crypsis has its price).

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Meir Kahane made me a white nationalist.


    I'm not joking. I read one of his books and thought that from a Jewish perspective he made perfect sense. When I read Pierce, Oliver and Covington later, it clicked.
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  242. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @guest
    Wilkie is perhaps the most suspicious presidential candidate in American history. In the midst of one of the largest national mass political movements ever--America First!--he rose up out of nowhere to deprive the electorate of a choice on one of the biggest issues ever: entry into WWII. This seems like moot point, considering after Pearl Harbor even isolationist would've gone to war. But of course Pearl Harbor didn't fall out of the clear blue sky, and just because WWII is a given doesn't mean insanities like "unconditional surrender," terror bombing, and Yalta were.

    Aside from Palin, McCain's candidacy is highly suspicious. He didn't pop up out of nowhere, and in fact had a long priming period in the national consciousness. He was "next in line," in the idiotic Washington manner of Bob Dole, since 2000, and had the phony "maverick" reputation. But it didn't seem like he cared about winning. The biggest moment of the election, when he unilaterally decided to suspend his campaign because economic emergency, certainly backs that up.

    Which begs the question: what happened with Palin? Did his handlers expect her to be a dud? Was it a sop to feminism that backfired? Were they truly caught off guard? Or were they actually trying, and the rest of the campaign was pure incompetence?

    Palin had good intentions as far as the future of the country was concerned, but was woefully unqualified by normal standards. Her family life is a mess: her husband is a goof, her daughter got knocked up outside of marriage at an inopportune time, and she herself wound up pregnant at 43 after four kids and 20 years of marriage. I’m guessing that was an oops.

    Oopses in such matters are not a characteristic of anyone I want with the football.

    And she knew the kid was a Down’s syndrome child before birth. If someone , regardless of stated religion, doesn’t have the….what do you call it??….to pull the trigger on such a creature , they may be “really good and moral”, but so are the nuns that take Halligan bars to the bomb bay doors of B-52s. I want a President who I know will order the keys turned instead of turning the other cheek.

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    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    Holy moly, on some websites, such as Breitbart, you would certainly catch flak for suggesting that Gov. Palin should have "pull[ed] the trigger" on Trigg, her son with Down's Syndrome.

    Bristol Palin was hypocritical and capitalized on being Sarah Palin's daughter. She finally married the father of her second child. IMO, if she wasn't Gov. Palin's daughter, she would have ended up on food stamps, if not the whole basket of welfare goodies.

    , @Jack D
    It is all well and good to have empathy with the lower (trashier) end of the American white working class (if our economy was a little better they might conform better to middle class values like getting married before having children as they did in the past). They are fundamentally good people even if they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and don't always behave perfectly.BUT, it's another thing to put them in the White House or a heartbeat away from it.
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  243. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Svigor

    If it’s the Joooos your talking about, Brooks pretty well dissociated himself from the Tribe after falling in with a charismatic Christian evangelical woman (NTTAWWT) and dumping his wife and family for her.
     
    Barry Bonds is an anti-white racist married to a white woman. The left will gladly tell you about all the awful racist whites who banged their black slaves. Your idea seems to be No True Scotsman, Princess and the Pea Edition (he's not Jewish Supremacist enough for you, so he's not a Jew).

    It's not exactly un-Jewish to marry a Jew, have kids, then marry a non-Jew, and have no kids. Okay, it might not work for Kahanists. (I know Jewish converts aren't really Jews, but we can't really say that out loud, so we'll leave that to the side; crypsis has its price).

    Meir Kahane made me a white nationalist.

    I’m not joking. I read one of his books and thought that from a Jewish perspective he made perfect sense. When I read Pierce, Oliver and Covington later, it clicked.

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  244. @MBlanc46
    Here he pretty much declares it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0pkWQ-DwgmA

    The great thing for Chris Hitchens, Tony Blair and the rest is that Leon Trotsky himself gave the merger of Trotskyism and Americanism his explicit blessing. In 1934 he said a merger or fusion of American consumer culture and his version of revolutionary communism could work wonderfully:

    If America Should Go Communist
    (August 1934)

    From Liberty, March 23, 1935.
    Reprinted in Fourth International, Vol.12 No.2, March-April 1951, pp.54-57.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1934/08/ame.htm

    It seems like the OSS and CIA types thought this was just the bees’ knees too: “heck, these guys hate Stalin more than we do!”. My first instinct is to think the Anglosphericals who embraced Trotskyites were fools to consider them soulmates but were they wrong?

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  245. Svigor says:

    So, let’s see here… then why isn’t it a “menacing temptation” for the Jews to “organize people by ethnic tribe”?

    Pretty hypocritical statement coming from a Member of the Tribe whose son joined the IDF to fight for the tribal territory of Israel, instead of joining the USMC….

    Every time Brooks opens his mouth he should have this shoved right down his piehole. COuldn’t sell his own son on his cherished ideals.And further at least his son has had the balls to choose a tribe.

    It would be much better to make him disavow his son’s choice, acknowledge that his son rejected his ideals, etc. Because it’s far from apparent. My assumption is that Brooks is just fine with Jewish tribalism and is proud of his son and sees no contradiction or refutation of David’s ideals; meaning, all the scheisse Brooks spouts is fur de goyim.

    “Donald Trump and the campus multiculturalists want to organize people by ethnic tribe”

    Hmm, I seem to recall the Clintons spending the last three decades organizing people by their ethnic tribe by promoting the “politics of identity” et al. But somehow that doesn’t count, I guess.

    Meanwhile, can Brooks quote a single tribalist statement by Trump?

    The great part is there’s no contradiction. The Clintons want tribalism for non-whites and a taboo on tribalism for whites (except Jews). Brooks may not want tribalism for non-whites, but he certainly tolerates it, and he’s 100% in agreement with the taboo on tribalism for whites (except Jews).

    Kyle Kopelovich says:
    October 21, 2017 at 4:06 am GMT

    @Syonredux

    Top notch racism.

    On the off chance that you’re serious:

    John McCain is a piece of shit.

    Also we are not a “Christian country” . The slaves that your ancestors brought over were mostly Muslims and they built this country. If anything, we are a Judeo-Christian country but lets not forget about the millions of Muslims who were brought here on slave ships and forcibly converted to Christianity.

    You are much more entertaining than Tiny Dick, assuming you aren’t a made-over Tiny Dick.

    They weren’t Muslims, they were Animists, forced to pretend to be Muslim by their Muslim slaver overlords. America has never been Judeo-Christian. Slavery, wars of subjugation, the Spanish Inquisition, and the bad parts of the Crusades are all Judeo-Christian though.

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  246. Svigor says:

    Meir Kahane made me a white nationalist.

    I’m not joking. I read one of his books and thought that from a Jewish perspective he made perfect sense. When I read Pierce, Oliver and Covington later, it clicked.

    Jews pretty much made me a WN, though admittedly viewed through the WN filter.

    I’ve chatted with a couple of very sensible Kahanists online. They tend to have very interesting takes on religion. I think Jews like them are an untapped resource for WNs.

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    • Replies: @Moses

    Jews pretty much made me a WN, though admittedly viewed through the WN filter.
     
    Same here.
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  247. Svigor says:

    And I’m really not kidding when I say:

    Jews are the early pioneers of racialism: Jews were doing it around the time of Christ, likely before; crackers didn’t catch up until the 19th century.

    Jews’ pioneering of racialism is probably the most interesting thing about them, and their greatest achievement.

    Same goes for eugenics, really.

    Okay, I’m kidding in the sense that I enjoy that it’s “antisemitism” to say this, and that I find it delicious that Jews go to their graves denying their tribe’s greatest achievements.

    I use “White Zionism” a lot; I might start calling myself a “White Kahanist,” too. :D

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  248. J1234 says:
    @guest
    Wilkie is perhaps the most suspicious presidential candidate in American history. In the midst of one of the largest national mass political movements ever--America First!--he rose up out of nowhere to deprive the electorate of a choice on one of the biggest issues ever: entry into WWII. This seems like moot point, considering after Pearl Harbor even isolationist would've gone to war. But of course Pearl Harbor didn't fall out of the clear blue sky, and just because WWII is a given doesn't mean insanities like "unconditional surrender," terror bombing, and Yalta were.

    Aside from Palin, McCain's candidacy is highly suspicious. He didn't pop up out of nowhere, and in fact had a long priming period in the national consciousness. He was "next in line," in the idiotic Washington manner of Bob Dole, since 2000, and had the phony "maverick" reputation. But it didn't seem like he cared about winning. The biggest moment of the election, when he unilaterally decided to suspend his campaign because economic emergency, certainly backs that up.

    Which begs the question: what happened with Palin? Did his handlers expect her to be a dud? Was it a sop to feminism that backfired? Were they truly caught off guard? Or were they actually trying, and the rest of the campaign was pure incompetence?

    Very true about Bob Dole. Clinton just cruised through that election. I liked Dole as a personality, but the whole, “It’s my turn to be president,” attitude that his campaign seemed to have was in line with Hillary’s attitude in 2016 (though Hillary was much worse about it.) Still, it pained me greatly to see baby boomer party animal Bill Clinton defeat Kansas WW2 vet Bob Dole.

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  249. @Anonymous
    Palin had good intentions as far as the future of the country was concerned, but was woefully unqualified by normal standards. Her family life is a mess: her husband is a goof, her daughter got knocked up outside of marriage at an inopportune time, and she herself wound up pregnant at 43 after four kids and 20 years of marriage. I'm guessing that was an oops.

    Oopses in such matters are not a characteristic of anyone I want with the football.

    And she knew the kid was a Down's syndrome child before birth. If someone , regardless of stated religion, doesn't have the....what do you call it??....to pull the trigger on such a creature , they may be "really good and moral", but so are the nuns that take Halligan bars to the bomb bay doors of B-52s. I want a President who I know will order the keys turned instead of turning the other cheek.

    Holy moly, on some websites, such as Breitbart, you would certainly catch flak for suggesting that Gov. Palin should have “pull[ed] the trigger” on Trigg, her son with Down’s Syndrome.

    Bristol Palin was hypocritical and capitalized on being Sarah Palin’s daughter. She finally married the father of her second child. IMO, if she wasn’t Gov. Palin’s daughter, she would have ended up on food stamps, if not the whole basket of welfare goodies.

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  250. @Charles Pewitt
    The Discus Thrower has decent shoulders, but many of us have shoulders quite similar.

    Take a look at the shoulders on the crew gal rowers from the University of Miami. These beautiful broads have some serious shoulders.

    The 53rd Head Of The Charles regatta is now on. Credit must be given to the rowers who compete, I imagine it is more grueling than it looks to row those boats as fast as they do.

    I don't care who wins the races, as long as it's not any of those snots from an Ivy League college.

    Crew Ladies with some serious shoulders:

    https://twitter.com/CanesRowing/status/919568572627718144

    Just two weekends ago my wife surprised me with two tickets to the World Rowing Championship here in Sarasota, final day featuring women’s and men’s eights.

    What a great day racing.

    Totally agree with you.

    Rowers are near the top in VO2 max. I believe it is very grueling. One of the few endurance sports that starts with a sprint. They have to get the boat up to speed quickly. Then they dip slightly below the redline for the body of the race and finally finish with a sprint. Point is they’re in oxygen debt from the get go. Not like a marathon where you can set a steady pace from the beginning. And yes, those rower babes have some fine shoulders. Thighs too (remember it’s a sliding seat). Rowing is an all-round body sport. Some of my best friends rowed competitively in college. Fine athletes.

    Go Huskies!

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  251. Forbes says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    "couches"?

    More evidence that Brooks is indeed lower class.

    How ’bout ‘Davenport’ as my grandmother used to call ‘em…

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  252. @Cagey Beast
    I just had a quick look at James Tabor's Wikipedia page and will have to graciously decline your recommendation.

    He was a consultant for the film, The Lost Tomb of Jesus produced by James Cameron and Simcha Jacobovici and shown in March 2007. In 2012 Tabor published, with co-author Simcha Jacobovici, The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity ...
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tabor

    Simcha Jacobovici is vile. He's the Howard Stern of archaeology. Anyone who could collaborate with him is a collaborator, in every sense of the word.

    Well, you piqued by interest regarding Mr. Jacobovici. I found this article:

    http://www.jpost.com/Christian-News/Court-rules-that-film-on-Jesus-tomb-marriage-to-Mary-Magdalene-was-not-a-fraud-405365

    I read the book about the supposed Jesus tomb and wasn’t convinced, but very much liked the book about Paul and Jesus.

    Thanks.

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  253. Forbes says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    The weird thing is, the Republican establishment doesn't seem to care that demographic trends spell its doom. Why? Is it because the GOPe has no real commitment to the policies it espouses? Is it because individuals in the establishment figure they can always retire to a comfortable sinecure somewhere as long as they mouth the establishment line? Is it because at the establishment level the parties have no important differences anyway? I think the answers to all those questions is "yes."

    Harry, I agree with your sentiment, though after eight years of Obama, the Reps are sitting with more elected politicians than ever. No overriding policy commitment, comfortable sinecures, little distinction from the opposition. The situation is Animal House-like: fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life.

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  254. @Methodological Terrorist
    Actually, for once I think Brooks is being more perceptive than Sailer. Citizenship, a nominal legal designation, is a weak foundation for a sense of national identity. Race, religion and culture all seem a lot more important to a group of people functioning effectively than whether or not they're all nominally citizens of a country.

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as "citizenism", which seems like your typical mainstream conservative's vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against "citizenism."

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”

    It only sounds odd if you imagine that Sailer actually holds it as an ideal he believes in. (I highly doubt he’d prefer the company of his black fellow citizens to the company of foreign Englishmen.) I suspect he just intends it as a delivery vehicle for tribalism. He thinks whites won’t go for something crude as tribal calls, so his citizenism is basically an alternative way to achieve the same result, since the main group it will appeal to is whites.

    That said, I think he also assumes it would appeal to fair number of hispanics. I suppose it might, particularly as time goes on, but right now it’s hard to see it competing with their ethnic loyalties.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Have you never met a middle-class black? A lot of them have been in this country a lot longer than we and our ancestors have, and they love it as much as we do. No, Steve means it. You're about two orders of magnitude high on the number of people with your perspective, at least.

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who've never left their XBox to meet anyone real.
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  255. Forbes says:
    @J1234
    Progressives and thinly veiled progressives hold up Wendell Willke as their ideal Republican archetype, the person who they think conservative politicians should pattern themselves after, and McCain is the closest thing to Wendell Willke to come out of the Republican party in the last 70 years. There's a reason Ted Kennedy tried to talk McCain into switching parties 20 years ago: he was already 80% there.

    David Brooks must surely realize that he himself (along with McCain) is so ten years ago from the perspective of most conservatives, whether they're Trump supporters or not. Or maybe the self-contained political and social biosphere of the NYT keeps that reality from ever reaching him. It's hard to believe he thinks anyone is really listening to him when he advocates for the worn out, sold out and cashed out McCain.

    Most Dems I know think McCain is the perfect Republican candidate. I doubt they’d cast a vote for him–but that’s how they think about politics…

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  256. @3g4me
    @103 Frau Katz: "They looked at me as if to say, yep, she’s as bad as his mother. I changed the topic."

    So your "I'm a goodwhite who doesn't use icky racial slurs" virtue signalling proved insufficient with your very own SJW daughter and you're looking for empathy/sympathy? So sorry; I'm fresh out.

    HBD: A little is not enough. If you can't apply it to yourself and your own group as well, you're merely a wannabe virtue signaller but doing a piss-poor job of it.

    Who said I was looking for sympathy? I’m not.

    My main concern is why the SJWs are the way they are.

    In this case, I think they’re ignorant. They haven’t been studying Islam since 9/11 like me. And I branched out to related fields. 9/11 convenienty occurred just as the kids were moving out on their own.

    So I had time,

    They both work and have two young kids so they wouldn’t have time, even if they were inclined to.

    When I was working with two young children I had little spare time.

    And your reply has unnecessary unpleasant tone.. Why?

    Have you raised your own children to be HBD-aware?

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  257. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous
    Palin had good intentions as far as the future of the country was concerned, but was woefully unqualified by normal standards. Her family life is a mess: her husband is a goof, her daughter got knocked up outside of marriage at an inopportune time, and she herself wound up pregnant at 43 after four kids and 20 years of marriage. I'm guessing that was an oops.

    Oopses in such matters are not a characteristic of anyone I want with the football.

    And she knew the kid was a Down's syndrome child before birth. If someone , regardless of stated religion, doesn't have the....what do you call it??....to pull the trigger on such a creature , they may be "really good and moral", but so are the nuns that take Halligan bars to the bomb bay doors of B-52s. I want a President who I know will order the keys turned instead of turning the other cheek.

    It is all well and good to have empathy with the lower (trashier) end of the American white working class (if our economy was a little better they might conform better to middle class values like getting married before having children as they did in the past). They are fundamentally good people even if they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and don’t always behave perfectly.BUT, it’s another thing to put them in the White House or a heartbeat away from it.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    My point precisely.

    I have no ill will toward Sarah Palin whatsoever. I hope she prospers in private life. I hope her kids prosper. But I don't want her in a VVIP position, POTUS, Senator, Governor of any state with a population bigger than the Kansas City metro area.

    John McCain? If I were still an active pilot I'd have a very, very hard time stopping myself doing a victory roll over his grave the day they plant the worthless bum. I don't wish him dead as much as I wish him out of power to do damage, but given the stupidity of voters that's the same thing. That's why I smoked a $40 cigar (most expensive in the store) when Lautenpig died. McCain is a thoroughgoing pile of dog excrement in the world's most excrement-filled deliberative body.
    , @Hibernian
    Andrew Jackson was a Deplorable. Or at least he was the hero of the Deplorables of his time.
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  258. Hibernian says:
    @Alden
    My husband's friends just accepted the Vietnam draft and as they went off to basic started wetting the bed every night and wetting their pants during the day. Worked every time.

    A good way to get beat up by your compatriots. Sounds like a tall tale. More plausible are stories of this kind of thing at and/or immediately prior to induction time.

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  259. @AndrewR
    Lol. I'm trying to imagine an American family having a heated discussion about Canadian politics around the dinner table. I think you people really are way more obsessed with the US than basic geopolitical realities would require.

    While you would likely object, I think your daughter and I could probably agree on a policy of sending all the illegals in the US up to Canada and giving them Canadian citizenship.

    Why, how generous of you to offer this valued pool of talent to Canada!

    Don’t give Trudope any ideas.

    He’s down in the polls. But like Republicans, count on the Conservatives to be unable to field a decent candidate.

    I’m pretty sure there is no Canadian Trump.

    The third parties are the way to go, as we see in Europe, but you need proportional representation. Trudope campaigned on it but now seems to have lost interest,

    And yes, we Canadians certainly follow US politics.

    My parents did too, back when Trudope The Elder was in power. What the US does often has a big effect on Canada.

    Maybe other families are different. My sister follows it too.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    I’m pretty sure there is no Canadian Trump.
     
    Jordan Peterson.
    , @Cagey Beast
    As a Canadian, having Justin Trudeau as Prime Minister makes it feel ridiculous to take Canadian politics seriously. To me, he's just the ceremonial Prime Minister occupying the spot until someone real comes along. He's the democratically elected equivalent of one of those child kings they used to have from time to time.
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  260. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    It is all well and good to have empathy with the lower (trashier) end of the American white working class (if our economy was a little better they might conform better to middle class values like getting married before having children as they did in the past). They are fundamentally good people even if they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and don't always behave perfectly.BUT, it's another thing to put them in the White House or a heartbeat away from it.

    My point precisely.

    I have no ill will toward Sarah Palin whatsoever. I hope she prospers in private life. I hope her kids prosper. But I don’t want her in a VVIP position, POTUS, Senator, Governor of any state with a population bigger than the Kansas City metro area.

    John McCain? If I were still an active pilot I’d have a very, very hard time stopping myself doing a victory roll over his grave the day they plant the worthless bum. I don’t wish him dead as much as I wish him out of power to do damage, but given the stupidity of voters that’s the same thing. That’s why I smoked a $40 cigar (most expensive in the store) when Lautenpig died. McCain is a thoroughgoing pile of dog excrement in the world’s most excrement-filled deliberative body.

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  261. Hibernian says:
    @Jack D
    It is all well and good to have empathy with the lower (trashier) end of the American white working class (if our economy was a little better they might conform better to middle class values like getting married before having children as they did in the past). They are fundamentally good people even if they are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and don't always behave perfectly.BUT, it's another thing to put them in the White House or a heartbeat away from it.

    Andrew Jackson was a Deplorable. Or at least he was the hero of the Deplorables of his time.

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    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Andrew Jackson was a Deplorable. Or at least he was the hero of the Deplorables of his time.
     
    Andrew Jackson was an accomplished man by any standard. He led men in battle against British and Indian forces and won his engagements. He was involved in the annexation of Florida and stomped the Indians hard, so that they would never numerically be in a position to threaten the ascendance of a white super majority. In other words he did to the Indians what Israelis would never be able to do to the Palestinians under current international law. Palin does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Jackson.
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  262. @Mr. Anon

    It did make some sense. Zakaria has become so radioactive in the years since that it’s hard to believe he once wrote some sensible things.
     
    Can you be sure that he wrote them? He does have a history on that score:

    Columnist Fareed Zakaria faces new accusations of plagiarism

    Yes, I heard about that. Plus he no longer sounds sensible.

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  263. @silviosilver

    I find it odd that Steve describes his philosophy as “citizenism”, which seems like your typical mainstream conservative’s vacuous philosophy. So much iSteve content indeed seems to be damning evidence against “citizenism.”
     
    It only sounds odd if you imagine that Sailer actually holds it as an ideal he believes in. (I highly doubt he'd prefer the company of his black fellow citizens to the company of foreign Englishmen.) I suspect he just intends it as a delivery vehicle for tribalism. He thinks whites won't go for something crude as tribal calls, so his citizenism is basically an alternative way to achieve the same result, since the main group it will appeal to is whites.

    That said, I think he also assumes it would appeal to fair number of hispanics. I suppose it might, particularly as time goes on, but right now it's hard to see it competing with their ethnic loyalties.

    Have you never met a middle-class black? A lot of them have been in this country a lot longer than we and our ancestors have, and they love it as much as we do. No, Steve means it. You’re about two orders of magnitude high on the number of people with your perspective, at least.

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who’ve never left their XBox to meet anyone real.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Actually, I get along quite well with blacks. I'm a sociable sort of fellow and many of them quickly take a liking to me. (Course, I never let on what actually think about them. Dishonest as it is, it makes life run more smoothly. Most of them probably feel the same way.) I don't mind their company over a few drinks and a few jokes. But to have as close friends, with whom I'd associate day in, day out? To pretend I have more in common with them than with people ethnically closer to me? Umm, like, no thank you.
    , @silviosilver

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who’ve never left their XBox to meet anyone real.
     
    That's a fair charge. There seems to be vast quantities of nutters and socially awkward dorks in their ranks. (I've never considered myself one, though I'm generally supportive of their aims.)

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships have ever experienced true ethnic infeeling. I think if you had, you wouldn't so haughtily dismiss it.

    See, I grew up in what we could loosely call a "dago subculture." Italians were the main group, but it was a wide assortment of southern/southeastern Europeans, with a few Assyrians and Lebanese Christians added to the mix. Growing up, it was just taken for granted that what we had in common racially and culturally was important, and that people who didn't share those traits weren't part of our scene. I think it was great. It felt wonderful to know there are so many people who have got your back and will reflexively take your side just because of who/what you are. I have the fondest memories of those days. Why in the world should I discount that just because there are some pleasant middle-class blacks around?

    If "citizenism" means downplaying the value of ethnic ties, then, sorry, it's just not something I could ever become passionate about. I mean, I could fake it as well as anyone else, but I would never become a true believer. If citizenism is the best political option available, I'll throw my lot in with it. But I like to think there are superior options available.
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  264. @Frau Katze
    Why, how generous of you to offer this valued pool of talent to Canada!

    Don't give Trudope any ideas.

    He's down in the polls. But like Republicans, count on the Conservatives to be unable to field a decent candidate.

    I'm pretty sure there is no Canadian Trump.

    The third parties are the way to go, as we see in Europe, but you need proportional representation. Trudope campaigned on it but now seems to have lost interest,

    And yes, we Canadians certainly follow US politics.

    My parents did too, back when Trudope The Elder was in power. What the US does often has a big effect on Canada.

    Maybe other families are different. My sister follows it too.

    I’m pretty sure there is no Canadian Trump.

    Jordan Peterson.

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  265. @Frau Katze
    Why, how generous of you to offer this valued pool of talent to Canada!

    Don't give Trudope any ideas.

    He's down in the polls. But like Republicans, count on the Conservatives to be unable to field a decent candidate.

    I'm pretty sure there is no Canadian Trump.

    The third parties are the way to go, as we see in Europe, but you need proportional representation. Trudope campaigned on it but now seems to have lost interest,

    And yes, we Canadians certainly follow US politics.

    My parents did too, back when Trudope The Elder was in power. What the US does often has a big effect on Canada.

    Maybe other families are different. My sister follows it too.

    As a Canadian, having Justin Trudeau as Prime Minister makes it feel ridiculous to take Canadian politics seriously. To me, he’s just the ceremonial Prime Minister occupying the spot until someone real comes along. He’s the democratically elected equivalent of one of those child kings they used to have from time to time.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Trudeau will geau one day but the political system that made him PM will likely remain the same. Trudeau is just a symptom of Canadian societal illness.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    But at least child kings grow up, which Trudeau never will.
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  266. @Perspective
    Increasingly I'm finding people tend to draw conclusions based on emotional and sentimental arguments. I find I tend to have much greater success at reaching people when I say things like immigration to the west has morphed in to silent passive aggressive ethnic cleansing. If they object and say that you're being hyperbolic, simply point out the demographic projections that are taking place. This is something most people, unless they are extremely sheltered or lack situational awareness, can see over time. Reinforce the idea that all cultures and people, including the west, have a right to survive and thrive.

    There’s still a huge background you need. I didn’t leave leftist thought in one day, It took a lot reading and studying, plus it needs the internet since a lot of it isn’t even in books.

    For example, one vlogger I used to listen to, decided to investigate the claims of “white supremacists.”.

    He got info from some cooperative biologists who naturally pointed him in all the wrong directions.

    I left a comment saying, read The Bell Curve.

    He likely ignored the comment, as there’s been no progress. In his last effort, he got 5K downvotes and likely lost his paying viewers. He’s been quiet for a while.

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  267. @Hibernian
    Andrew Jackson was a Deplorable. Or at least he was the hero of the Deplorables of his time.

    Andrew Jackson was a Deplorable. Or at least he was the hero of the Deplorables of his time.

    Andrew Jackson was an accomplished man by any standard. He led men in battle against British and Indian forces and won his engagements. He was involved in the annexation of Florida and stomped the Indians hard, so that they would never numerically be in a position to threaten the ascendance of a white super majority. In other words he did to the Indians what Israelis would never be able to do to the Palestinians under current international law. Palin does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Jackson.

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  268. inertial says:
    @ThreeCranes
    In support of my comment above...

    The definition of paideia includes training in wrestling, gymnastics, and music to give strength and rhythmic harmony to the body. The Greeks were training the whole man. Think of the balance and poise of The Discus Thrower.


    http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-5/discobolus-myron.jpg


    Can anyone show me anything in Hebraic civilization that comes even remotely close to this in intent? Anything in painting, sculpture, architecture? No, because there isn't anything there; no tangible, material or touchable thing that expresses the beautiful, graceful, strong or tender.

    No, instead of all this, the Hebrews created a covenant with their tribal deity. A contract. A business deal. And then got pissed off because Yahweh didn't keep up his end of the bargain. And they've been pissed off ever since and have taken it out on the rest of us.

    I take it you are of the Greek extraction yourself, and not one of those Hyperborean barbarians whom the ancient Greeks considered barely human?

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  269. @Desiderius
    Have you never met a middle-class black? A lot of them have been in this country a lot longer than we and our ancestors have, and they love it as much as we do. No, Steve means it. You're about two orders of magnitude high on the number of people with your perspective, at least.

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who've never left their XBox to meet anyone real.

    Actually, I get along quite well with blacks. I’m a sociable sort of fellow and many of them quickly take a liking to me. (Course, I never let on what actually think about them. Dishonest as it is, it makes life run more smoothly. Most of them probably feel the same way.) I don’t mind their company over a few drinks and a few jokes. But to have as close friends, with whom I’d associate day in, day out? To pretend I have more in common with them than with people ethnically closer to me? Umm, like, no thank you.

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    • Agree: Kylie
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  270. @Desiderius
    Have you never met a middle-class black? A lot of them have been in this country a lot longer than we and our ancestors have, and they love it as much as we do. No, Steve means it. You're about two orders of magnitude high on the number of people with your perspective, at least.

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who've never left their XBox to meet anyone real.

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who’ve never left their XBox to meet anyone real.

    That’s a fair charge. There seems to be vast quantities of nutters and socially awkward dorks in their ranks. (I’ve never considered myself one, though I’m generally supportive of their aims.)

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships have ever experienced true ethnic infeeling. I think if you had, you wouldn’t so haughtily dismiss it.

    See, I grew up in what we could loosely call a “dago subculture.” Italians were the main group, but it was a wide assortment of southern/southeastern Europeans, with a few Assyrians and Lebanese Christians added to the mix. Growing up, it was just taken for granted that what we had in common racially and culturally was important, and that people who didn’t share those traits weren’t part of our scene. I think it was great. It felt wonderful to know there are so many people who have got your back and will reflexively take your side just because of who/what you are. I have the fondest memories of those days. Why in the world should I discount that just because there are some pleasant middle-class blacks around?

    If “citizenism” means downplaying the value of ethnic ties, then, sorry, it’s just not something I could ever become passionate about. I mean, I could fake it as well as anyone else, but I would never become a true believer. If citizenism is the best political option available, I’ll throw my lot in with it. But I like to think there are superior options available.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    You know as well as anyone else that the "dago subculture" is a... subculture. If you tried relating your experiences to a Puritan WASP or a Swede you would likely get a reaction of profound puzzlement if not hostility.
    , @Desiderius
    Thanks for the good faith reply.

    If “citizenism” means downplaying the value of ethnic ties
     
    It doesn't mean that at all. One of the distinguishing features of being a citizen of this particular country is the room enjoy those ethnic ties to the hilt, as can your neighbor. I'm ethnically German, Cincinnatian, and Appalachian and enjoy them all with family and friends. The local blacks share in that local ethnicity (mostly the Cincinnati part, tho some have fun appropriating the others), since many of their families have been here from the late 1800s.

    It's just that "white" isn't an ethnicity, although many who seek to do harm to whites treat it like one.

    If citizenism is the best political option available, I’ll throw my lot in with it.
     
    Good. It is.
    , @Desiderius

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships
     
    I don't pride myself on any of my friendships. That's not what friends are for.
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  271. AndrewR says:
    @Cagey Beast
    As a Canadian, having Justin Trudeau as Prime Minister makes it feel ridiculous to take Canadian politics seriously. To me, he's just the ceremonial Prime Minister occupying the spot until someone real comes along. He's the democratically elected equivalent of one of those child kings they used to have from time to time.

    Trudeau will geau one day but the political system that made him PM will likely remain the same. Trudeau is just a symptom of Canadian societal illness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Yes, I don't think Canada will come back after Justin leaves. It will just continue to drift along as an internationally recognized geographic and legal entity.
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  272. AndrewR says:
    @silviosilver

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who’ve never left their XBox to meet anyone real.
     
    That's a fair charge. There seems to be vast quantities of nutters and socially awkward dorks in their ranks. (I've never considered myself one, though I'm generally supportive of their aims.)

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships have ever experienced true ethnic infeeling. I think if you had, you wouldn't so haughtily dismiss it.

    See, I grew up in what we could loosely call a "dago subculture." Italians were the main group, but it was a wide assortment of southern/southeastern Europeans, with a few Assyrians and Lebanese Christians added to the mix. Growing up, it was just taken for granted that what we had in common racially and culturally was important, and that people who didn't share those traits weren't part of our scene. I think it was great. It felt wonderful to know there are so many people who have got your back and will reflexively take your side just because of who/what you are. I have the fondest memories of those days. Why in the world should I discount that just because there are some pleasant middle-class blacks around?

    If "citizenism" means downplaying the value of ethnic ties, then, sorry, it's just not something I could ever become passionate about. I mean, I could fake it as well as anyone else, but I would never become a true believer. If citizenism is the best political option available, I'll throw my lot in with it. But I like to think there are superior options available.

    You know as well as anyone else that the “dago subculture” is a… subculture. If you tried relating your experiences to a Puritan WASP or a Swede you would likely get a reaction of profound puzzlement if not hostility.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver

    If you tried relating your experiences to a Puritan WASP or a Swede you would likely get a reaction of profound puzzlement if not hostility.
     
    Well of course. That goes without saying. If you felt the need to point this out, perhaps you assumed I was trying to claim otherwise. I wasn't.
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  273. @silviosilver

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who’ve never left their XBox to meet anyone real.
     
    That's a fair charge. There seems to be vast quantities of nutters and socially awkward dorks in their ranks. (I've never considered myself one, though I'm generally supportive of their aims.)

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships have ever experienced true ethnic infeeling. I think if you had, you wouldn't so haughtily dismiss it.

    See, I grew up in what we could loosely call a "dago subculture." Italians were the main group, but it was a wide assortment of southern/southeastern Europeans, with a few Assyrians and Lebanese Christians added to the mix. Growing up, it was just taken for granted that what we had in common racially and culturally was important, and that people who didn't share those traits weren't part of our scene. I think it was great. It felt wonderful to know there are so many people who have got your back and will reflexively take your side just because of who/what you are. I have the fondest memories of those days. Why in the world should I discount that just because there are some pleasant middle-class blacks around?

    If "citizenism" means downplaying the value of ethnic ties, then, sorry, it's just not something I could ever become passionate about. I mean, I could fake it as well as anyone else, but I would never become a true believer. If citizenism is the best political option available, I'll throw my lot in with it. But I like to think there are superior options available.

    Thanks for the good faith reply.

    If “citizenism” means downplaying the value of ethnic ties

    It doesn’t mean that at all. One of the distinguishing features of being a citizen of this particular country is the room enjoy those ethnic ties to the hilt, as can your neighbor. I’m ethnically German, Cincinnatian, and Appalachian and enjoy them all with family and friends. The local blacks share in that local ethnicity (mostly the Cincinnati part, tho some have fun appropriating the others), since many of their families have been here from the late 1800s.

    It’s just that “white” isn’t an ethnicity, although many who seek to do harm to whites treat it like one.

    If citizenism is the best political option available, I’ll throw my lot in with it.

    Good. It is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver

    It doesn’t mean that at all. One of the distinguishing features of being a citizen of this particular country is the room enjoy those ethnic ties to the hilt, as can your neighbor.
     
    "To the hilt" to me means my neighbors should be people of my own race (however broadly or narrowly defined), by law. I don't think this principle violates citizenism, as long as it restricts itself to making the segregationist option to those who want it, rather than imposing it on those who don't. There would be no small amount of confusion and heartache as things sorted themselves out, but in time I think a manageable arrangement would emerge.

    It’s just that “white” isn’t an ethnicity, although many who seek to do harm to whites treat it like one.
     
    That's mostly because it's been adulterated by the inclusion into the label of people whose whiteness was originally (and, I think, correctly) questioned, many of whom - Jews, most notoriously, but certainly not alone - were rather hostile to the foundational members of that label and were instrumental in the enthnonym's fall from grace. "White American" otherwise has all the ingredients of being an ethnicity; the main thing it lacks is a desire (by people like you) to assert its existence and promote its interests.

    I’m ethnically German, Cincinnatian, and Appalachian and enjoy them all with family and friends. The local blacks share in that local ethnicity (mostly the Cincinnati part, tho some have fun appropriating the others), since many of their families have been here from the late 1800s.
     
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a multiracial paradise, I'm sure. I don't understand why people like you do this to yourselves, I really don't.

    I once watched an old debate from the mid-80s on youtube between Meir Kahane and Alan Dershowitz, back when the latter was trying (or pretending) to be a consistent liberal on Israel/Palestine issues. At one point, Kahane said something like, "I understand the Arabs, and they understand me - and neither of us understand Mr. Dershowitz." I feel the same way when confronted by insistent white anti-racists like you.
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  274. @silviosilver

    I wonder if WN is just about a bunch of dorks who’ve never left their XBox to meet anyone real.
     
    That's a fair charge. There seems to be vast quantities of nutters and socially awkward dorks in their ranks. (I've never considered myself one, though I'm generally supportive of their aims.)

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships have ever experienced true ethnic infeeling. I think if you had, you wouldn't so haughtily dismiss it.

    See, I grew up in what we could loosely call a "dago subculture." Italians were the main group, but it was a wide assortment of southern/southeastern Europeans, with a few Assyrians and Lebanese Christians added to the mix. Growing up, it was just taken for granted that what we had in common racially and culturally was important, and that people who didn't share those traits weren't part of our scene. I think it was great. It felt wonderful to know there are so many people who have got your back and will reflexively take your side just because of who/what you are. I have the fondest memories of those days. Why in the world should I discount that just because there are some pleasant middle-class blacks around?

    If "citizenism" means downplaying the value of ethnic ties, then, sorry, it's just not something I could ever become passionate about. I mean, I could fake it as well as anyone else, but I would never become a true believer. If citizenism is the best political option available, I'll throw my lot in with it. But I like to think there are superior options available.

    But I have to wonder whether people like you who pride themselves on their cross-racial friendships

    I don’t pride myself on any of my friendships. That’s not what friends are for.

    Read More
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  275. @Doug
    OT:

    "Senator Graham Says Terrorism War Expanding, Citing Africa Clash"

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-20/senator-graham-says-terrorism-war-expanding-citing-africa-clash

    What's more brutal and pointless than fighting ground wars in Asia? Answer: ground wars in Africa. Looks like we'll be fighting a lot more soon, according to Mattis. Guess the Trump administration isn't really interested in ending America's invade the world, invite the world ethos.

    Thanks.

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  276. @AndrewR
    You know as well as anyone else that the "dago subculture" is a... subculture. If you tried relating your experiences to a Puritan WASP or a Swede you would likely get a reaction of profound puzzlement if not hostility.

    If you tried relating your experiences to a Puritan WASP or a Swede you would likely get a reaction of profound puzzlement if not hostility.

    Well of course. That goes without saying. If you felt the need to point this out, perhaps you assumed I was trying to claim otherwise. I wasn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    My point was that "true ethnic infeeling" is not really a thing in every population. And I'd be willing to bet that many of your coethnics don't get that tingly feeling in their bellies when they think of their fellow dagos.
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  277. @Desiderius
    Thanks for the good faith reply.

    If “citizenism” means downplaying the value of ethnic ties
     
    It doesn't mean that at all. One of the distinguishing features of being a citizen of this particular country is the room enjoy those ethnic ties to the hilt, as can your neighbor. I'm ethnically German, Cincinnatian, and Appalachian and enjoy them all with family and friends. The local blacks share in that local ethnicity (mostly the Cincinnati part, tho some have fun appropriating the others), since many of their families have been here from the late 1800s.

    It's just that "white" isn't an ethnicity, although many who seek to do harm to whites treat it like one.

    If citizenism is the best political option available, I’ll throw my lot in with it.
     
    Good. It is.

    It doesn’t mean that at all. One of the distinguishing features of being a citizen of this particular country is the room enjoy those ethnic ties to the hilt, as can your neighbor.

    “To the hilt” to me means my neighbors should be people of my own race (however broadly or narrowly defined), by law. I don’t think this principle violates citizenism, as long as it restricts itself to making the segregationist option to those who want it, rather than imposing it on those who don’t. There would be no small amount of confusion and heartache as things sorted themselves out, but in time I think a manageable arrangement would emerge.

    It’s just that “white” isn’t an ethnicity, although many who seek to do harm to whites treat it like one.

    That’s mostly because it’s been adulterated by the inclusion into the label of people whose whiteness was originally (and, I think, correctly) questioned, many of whom – Jews, most notoriously, but certainly not alone – were rather hostile to the foundational members of that label and were instrumental in the enthnonym’s fall from grace. “White American” otherwise has all the ingredients of being an ethnicity; the main thing it lacks is a desire (by people like you) to assert its existence and promote its interests.

    I’m ethnically German, Cincinnatian, and Appalachian and enjoy them all with family and friends. The local blacks share in that local ethnicity (mostly the Cincinnati part, tho some have fun appropriating the others), since many of their families have been here from the late 1800s.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s a multiracial paradise, I’m sure. I don’t understand why people like you do this to yourselves, I really don’t.

    I once watched an old debate from the mid-80s on youtube between Meir Kahane and Alan Dershowitz, back when the latter was trying (or pretending) to be a consistent liberal on Israel/Palestine issues. At one point, Kahane said something like, “I understand the Arabs, and they understand me – and neither of us understand Mr. Dershowitz.” I feel the same way when confronted by insistent white anti-racists like you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    Lol what evidence have you that he's an "insistent white anti-racist"?

    "White" is simply too broad a label to be meaningful as an ethnic descriptor.

    I am currently working my way through the book Albion's Seed, which describes the four major British populations that came to populate colonial America. To me, the most fascinating thing is how little has changed in many regards. For instance, true "anti-racism", of which I don't think you have any reason to believe Desiderius is an adherent, stems directly from the astoundingly self-punishing and masochistic folkways of the Puritan settlers.

    Reading this book makes me hesitate to even call "WASP/Anglo/English" an ethnic group, given the enormous differences between it's different subgroups. So obviously, "white" is an even less meaningful ethnic descriptor.

    Obviously, to the extent that Jews, leftists, anti-white "POC" lump all of us different "whites" in together, we "whites" do share a common interest in banding together, just as how Americans of oriental descent have largely thrown away their ancestors' ethnic rivalries in order to adopt a "pan-Asian" identity in order to advance their ethnic interests as a sort of ethnic cartel.

    But truth be told, as a general rule I don't really want anything to do with the descendants of the Puritans, or the Scots-Irish, or a number of other groups all lumped together under the "white" label.

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  278. @Alden
    She died recently. I loved her articles in National Review. She has a book out of her articles. Never read her romance novel.

    I wouldn’t call it romance. It was written very early in her career, but it dovetails nicely with Game/PUA/alt-right themes about women.

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  279. @Anonymous
    Military service should be a requirement to be Commander in Chief, in my opinion.

    Yeah, ’cause service turns everyone into pacificists like McCain, so voting too. Actually, why don’t we go full Sparta, and just make our society based on war prep.

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  280. @Altai

    you can have enlightenment ideal or you can have multiculturalism but you cant have both.
     
    The fatal flaw in the logic of Star Trek and a lot of American conservatives who think European welfare states are the road to hell, actually they're fine once you keep a homogeneous population that overwhelmingly feels bad about cheating them. And if generational cycles mean they have no choice but to trim them back, so be it, the country is still there.

    While at one time I was that old conservative triggered by nordic socialism,but I have observed a lot thats altered my thinking a bit.

    First let me say one of the worst effects of multi marxist culturalism is too remove the ability to socially correct our co ethnics. This is leftist synergy at its finest that is most corrupt. We can do it because, that would be having a culture which we are not allowed because that would be offensive and a threat to the left. we cant do it because they won and we don’t have a culture to do it with. we cant do it because id we were to succeed ans our outcomes were to exceed the browns that would undermine leftist premises and be racist. We cant do it because that would slow progress which means slow anarchy, leftism few realise is a power grab, phase one is taking power away from the enemy through anarchy, later they will restore order through totalitarianism and you will beg them for it.Did you think they actually liked Islam and rioting niggers?

    So yes as you imply you can even have socialism if you have whites enforcing the rest of the culture as well. If you have ever lived in the country with whites you know the drill if anyone needs helps you help as if it were your own child, never ask for help or let anyone know you need help no matter what and refuse all help.

    Regarding socialism, its still obviously a moral hazard, however. I have noted white people have a low tolerance for suffering and see it as a problem to be solved. It seems if you don’t solve it they will turn to charity and eventually socialism. They also like to use their smarts to minimize risk thus the concept of insurance. Most socialism solved problems can be transformed into insurance plans at least theoretically and if the demographics are the potential whites have demonstrated to be capable of not what leftists have reduced them too, see first paragraph.In real life these insurance plans would probably require mandatory participation. Otherwise commons problem, the the strongest would opt out then later whine about something needing to be done. better to admit we have this low tolerance, decide what the bare minimum we can live with and have a minimal social insurance program, the strongest can then supplement that as they wish. Having it administered privately may be more expensive but likely only way it remains insurance and not welfare.

    [MORE]

    Capitalism is not actually a right wing system its theoretically neutral currently its in contract with the left. Certainly its always a threat to authority and culture which is certainly not conservative and which kings and popes always understood, only the enlightenment decided it was a good bit of course the enlightenment was a leftist revolution. Obviously capitalism can be adopted to the right and has aspects that suit it to the right as well, but we must remember its not actually intelligent its just single minded, it doesn’t change in response to our needs and sell us what we want it sells us what it changes us in response to what it can make a profit on and sells us what it wants to sell us.It must be subordinated to culture and to authority, dont worry itll manage to adapt and make a profit. Remember the reason we on the right like capitalism is not for the beauty of its self adjusting ability to profit, we revere it because it serves us, we have no reason to revere it when t is not serving us.

    I was actually being generous, its not actually clear you can have enlightenment societies even among whites,they are simply the thin edge of leftism even all the way back to 1776 a sort of libertarianism because the technology was not possible for more devolved into what we have now as soon as it was able. Yes sure the state grabbed more power more even than a king once exerted much more, but the vote immediately expanded and politicians immediately became a professional class and then a civil service class as well.You are going to have authority one way or another might as well admit this and not let the mob rule on the pretext theirs a couple of mensas in the mob. If authority is explicit you can actually safely have more not less freedom. when no ones in charge freedom is dangerous.kings and nobles were done away with to solve a problem of human resource in efficiency post agricultural, a meritocracy can still be had just do away with the part about all men are created equal which is sort of a contradiction to meritocracy.The less equal are well aware where they fall and are happy to be ruled well, democracy’s problems are not the result of the less abled and their pitchforks, (which only come out when really really badly ruled) The problems are the result of elites gaming the system to replace other elites, sometimes they enlist the mobs in their power plays. Yes this is a sort of way to sort the most able elites to rule, its just a really stupid way to do it only a notch above the old system where they would have wars to decide. Politics is proxy war and almost nay even more destructive.we need authority and we need a meritocratic aristocracy and we need a place for everyone commensurate with ability, we dont need this all against all waste we need a system they must conform to to be able to rise within.

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  281. AndrewR says:
    @silviosilver

    If you tried relating your experiences to a Puritan WASP or a Swede you would likely get a reaction of profound puzzlement if not hostility.
     
    Well of course. That goes without saying. If you felt the need to point this out, perhaps you assumed I was trying to claim otherwise. I wasn't.

    My point was that “true ethnic infeeling” is not really a thing in every population. And I’d be willing to bet that many of your coethnics don’t get that tingly feeling in their bellies when they think of their fellow dagos.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    That's certainly true.
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  282. Moses says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't hate Jews. I don't want Jews to stop being Jewish.

    I do believe we must be able to openly criticize Jews, and any and all other groups, as groups and they must be free to criticize us.

    Nein.

    Any criticism of Jews ist verboten and “anti-Jew.” We will slur and ruin you until you submit.

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  283. Moses says:
    @Svigor

    Meir Kahane made me a white nationalist.

    I’m not joking. I read one of his books and thought that from a Jewish perspective he made perfect sense. When I read Pierce, Oliver and Covington later, it clicked.
     
    Jews pretty much made me a WN, though admittedly viewed through the WN filter.

    I've chatted with a couple of very sensible Kahanists online. They tend to have very interesting takes on religion. I think Jews like them are an untapped resource for WNs.

    Jews pretty much made me a WN, though admittedly viewed through the WN filter.

    Same here.

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  284. AndrewR says:
    @silviosilver

    It doesn’t mean that at all. One of the distinguishing features of being a citizen of this particular country is the room enjoy those ethnic ties to the hilt, as can your neighbor.
     
    "To the hilt" to me means my neighbors should be people of my own race (however broadly or narrowly defined), by law. I don't think this principle violates citizenism, as long as it restricts itself to making the segregationist option to those who want it, rather than imposing it on those who don't. There would be no small amount of confusion and heartache as things sorted themselves out, but in time I think a manageable arrangement would emerge.

    It’s just that “white” isn’t an ethnicity, although many who seek to do harm to whites treat it like one.
     
    That's mostly because it's been adulterated by the inclusion into the label of people whose whiteness was originally (and, I think, correctly) questioned, many of whom - Jews, most notoriously, but certainly not alone - were rather hostile to the foundational members of that label and were instrumental in the enthnonym's fall from grace. "White American" otherwise has all the ingredients of being an ethnicity; the main thing it lacks is a desire (by people like you) to assert its existence and promote its interests.

    I’m ethnically German, Cincinnatian, and Appalachian and enjoy them all with family and friends. The local blacks share in that local ethnicity (mostly the Cincinnati part, tho some have fun appropriating the others), since many of their families have been here from the late 1800s.
     
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a multiracial paradise, I'm sure. I don't understand why people like you do this to yourselves, I really don't.

    I once watched an old debate from the mid-80s on youtube between Meir Kahane and Alan Dershowitz, back when the latter was trying (or pretending) to be a consistent liberal on Israel/Palestine issues. At one point, Kahane said something like, "I understand the Arabs, and they understand me - and neither of us understand Mr. Dershowitz." I feel the same way when confronted by insistent white anti-racists like you.

    Lol what evidence have you that he’s an “insistent white anti-racist”?

    “White” is simply too broad a label to be meaningful as an ethnic descriptor.

    I am currently working my way through the book Albion’s Seed, which describes the four major British populations that came to populate colonial America. To me, the most fascinating thing is how little has changed in many regards. For instance, true “anti-racism”, of which I don’t think you have any reason to believe Desiderius is an adherent, stems directly from the astoundingly self-punishing and masochistic folkways of the Puritan settlers.

    Reading this book makes me hesitate to even call “WASP/Anglo/English” an ethnic group, given the enormous differences between it’s different subgroups. So obviously, “white” is an even less meaningful ethnic descriptor.

    Obviously, to the extent that Jews, leftists, anti-white “POC” lump all of us different “whites” in together, we “whites” do share a common interest in banding together, just as how Americans of oriental descent have largely thrown away their ancestors’ ethnic rivalries in order to adopt a “pan-Asian” identity in order to advance their ethnic interests as a sort of ethnic cartel.

    But truth be told, as a general rule I don’t really want anything to do with the descendants of the Puritans, or the Scots-Irish, or a number of other groups all lumped together under the “white” label.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Thanks Andrew. Good show, mate.
    , @silviosilver

    Lol what evidence have you that he’s an “insistent white anti-racist”?
     
    Any white who'd try to argue that blacks are part of his ethnicity is simply not to be taken seriously. Ten years of online experience with moral preeners* like him has taught me that engaging them is a complete waste of time.

    *(He clearly thinks his willingness to form cross-racial friendships makes him a better person than me.)


    “White” is simply too broad a label to be meaningful as an ethnic descriptor.

    I am currently working my way through the book Albion’s Seed, which describes the four major British populations that came to populate colonial America.
     

    Black origins are no less disparate yet this has not proven to be any sort of insurmountable obstacle to forming a united group identity.

    So obviously, “white” is an even less meaningful ethnic descriptor.
     
    Try thinking of "white" as a social/political class rather than ethnicity then, and see if that doesn't help you get your priorities straight.
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  285. 3g4me says:

    @249 Frau Katz: “Have you raised your own children to be HBD-aware?”

    Absolutely. More aggressively with the younger than the older, but the first one enjoyed a Whiter environment than the younger. He still believed in a few IKAGOs until a few years ago, but even that is fading with age and experience. And no particular ethnic group, regardless of any degree of ancestry we may share, is exempt.

    Being a parent or busy mother or having a job is not an all purpose excuse for ignorance. To be unaware of or opposed to the factual basis for HBD these days requires both a lack of common sense and a deliberate blindness to reality. If that has been enabled or excused by said individual’s parents, then they have willfully misled their progeny; reality will step in to rectify that in time but will also expose those parents’ culpability.

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  286. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I despise the Bush clan more by the day. Not a word of negativity during the 8 years of the white hating Obama regime. It has taken him less than one year for the dim-witted W to attack Trump.

    So much for the "it is beneath the dignity of the office for a prior President to criticize the current President" garbage we heard from the Bushes during Obama's two terms.

    I have despised the Bush clan for years. The first Bush was part owner of Omega protein, which destroyed the menhaden fishery. The second Bush destroyed the beauty of Austin, Texas when he was governor by siding with the “developers” instead of the people of Austin.

    Nothing this despicable family has done has ever surprised me.

    They stand for nothing besides getting rich.

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  287. @AndrewR
    Trudeau will geau one day but the political system that made him PM will likely remain the same. Trudeau is just a symptom of Canadian societal illness.

    Yes, I don’t think Canada will come back after Justin leaves. It will just continue to drift along as an internationally recognized geographic and legal entity.

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  288. Mr. Anon says:

    … Second, McCain is one of very few Republicans willing to stand up for the American story.

    I am one of those who thought America was a nation. John McCain and David Brooks think it is only a story.

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