The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Dave Goldberg Died the Same Day as a Cartel Terrorist Offensive
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Puerto Vallarta, May 1

Dave Goldberg, the Silicon Valley CEO who died Friday, May 1 from head trauma, was vacationing at a classy resort north of Puerto Vallarta, which is in Jalisco, Mexico (although the resort itself appears to be just over the state line). The day Goldberg died saw a major outbreak of cartel carnage in Puerto Vallarta and Guadalajara. From the Wall Street Journal, an article on Sunday that didn’t draw a connection to Goldberg’s death, but which sounds perhaps relevant now that we know he died of an impact on the head:

Rise of Drug Cartel Brings Wave of Mexican Violence

Army hunts for three missing soldiers in Jalisco since helicopter was shot down on Friday

By JOSÉ DE CÓRDOBA
Updated May 3, 2015 7:12 p.m. ET

MEXICO CITY—A weekend of coordinated violence convulsed Mexico’s second-largest city and a famed beach resort town in the latest sign of the emergence of a powerful and aggressive drug cartel.

Soldiers and police in Jalisco state searched on Sunday for three soldiers who have been missing since gunmen presumed to belong to the Jalisco New Generation Cartel shot down a Mexican army helicopter on Friday, killing three soldiers and injuring 12.

The chopper was shot down as soldiers, marines, and federal and state police began an operation to take down the Jalisco cartel, capture its leaders and improve security in the state, officials said. …

The flare-up of violence in Guadalajara, a city of 1.5 million people in a metropolitan area of 4.5 million, and the resort town of Puerto Vallarta is the latest setback for the government of President Enrique Peña Nieto. …

The downing of the helicopter came as cartel gunmen seized buses and cars and set them on fire to block major highways and roads in 39 places across the state, including the capital Guadalajara.

Puerto Vallarta, May 1

Cartel gunmen set fire to 11 bank branches and five gasoline stations across the state. The cartel also blocked roads in three neighboring states.

So that’s at least 58 acts of terrorism that day in the region.

Seven people died in the day’s violence. …

The Jalisco cartel’s latest offensive follows another large-scale attack in April, in which presumed members firing grenade launchers and assault rifles killed 15 Jalisco state police officers and wounded another five in an ambush near Puerto Vallarta.

It sounds like there is a good chance the poor man was murdered as part of a whack-a-random-rich-gringo operation to show the politicians and public the cartel is serious. Or maybe it was just an accident. But it doesn’t seem hugely paranoid to think Goldberg might have been the 8th fatality on May 1st of this giant criminal offensive to demonstrate power in the region.

And like the beach resort town mayor in “Jaws,” local officials probably might not be in any hurry to ruin the tourist trade by confirming that the American micro-celebrity died violently.

All this is speculation, but it makes sense out of some otherwise odd details, such as the survivors flying back to America immediately, rather like LBJ getting Air Force One’s wheels up out of Dallas ASAP on 11/22/63 rather than stick around to see what else might happen.

It must have been terrifying for the family: the news full of reports of chaos, the husband missing, then found dying in a pool of blood, the locals acting like you’re the worst PR imaginable — all the billion or two billion people on Facebook will hear about it, and then nobody will ever vacation in Puerto Vallarta again. (Generally, the cartels haven’t gone after gringo tourists, but this is a fairly new and aggressive cartel.)

Normally, you’d expect the brother to stick around to deal with formalities, but prudence must have suggested they all get back to the USA immediately.

Imagine you are the poor widow, Sheryl Sandberg: you don’t know what happened, which makes it worse. It seems suspicious that your 47-year-old husband suddenly is dead the same day as the region is convulsed by terrorism, but you don’t know he was murdered. Maybe it was an accident. Maybe it wasn’t. Was it random? Was he targeted due to your celebrity you’ve worked so hard to create? Are you somehow guilty? Maybe the bad guys were out to get you or your children as well? Should you be afraid even back home? You don’t know.

But you are also the COO of Facebook and you do know your boss Mark wouldn’t be happy with you making unprovable accusations against a country of 120 million potential customers. Maybe you are nursing, say, Washington aspirations for the post-Hillary era. Could this be your launching pad to the White House the way Monica Lewinsky launched Hillary? You’ve spent your whole life strategizing how to spin things, but you’ve never game planned for this …

Think! Who should handle this at the Times? Jodi? What’s the proper angle on this? Et in Arcadia ego? No, definitely not that. A downer. Let’s just stay with feminism. Can we get the President to post something on Facebook about Dave? But how do we keep those social media busybodies from ruining the proper tone? I’ve got it, we’ll ban all Facebooking at the memorial service.

It’s a horrible situation psychologically. It sounds like a 1980s thriller with Glenn Close.

 
Hide 227 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Why is advertising for tourism in Mexico not regarded as comparable to the little fake tours that the DPRK offers? It seems comparable: both are more about a sinister pretence to normality than anything else.

    • Replies: @keypusher
    Because (depending on where you go, and what you do) it's a great time in a beautiful place? Because Mexico is not a hermetically sealed police state ruled by a hereditary dictator?
    , @Jack D
    "Mexico" is not a single place but a whole big country. There are parts of it that are controlled by drug gangs where you would not be safe in broad daylight with armed bodyguards and there are parts of it that are gated resort communities that are as safe as anywhere on earth. And as we have seen in Baltimore, these parts maybe be located quite close to each other. The people staying at the Four Seasons Baltimore never saw any rioters except on the flat screen TVs in their suites even though the riots were only a mile or two away.

    The same could be said of the US, and indeed every once in a while some European tourist makes a wrong turn and ends up in one of the darker parts of Miami and gets in big trouble.

  2. http://youtu.be/BUmpTKXpIdM

    Just sub in the blue meth for Facebook. Or maybe actual meth, who knows?

  3. Sounds like Harry Reid, who turned up on New Year’s Day at a Las Vegas emergency room with severe head injuries due to a run-in with his exercise equipment. Maybe the Singularity is here, and the robot revolution has begun.

    • Replies: @Pat Gilligan
    According to the "classy resort", Goldberg didn't die there and was not a registered guest.

    I say suicide or murder. Likely the former because authorities there say an investigation/autopsy will not be done (standard for criminal/foul play and accidental).

    Mexico resort questions tech CEO David Goldberg accident report

  4. Further to Steve Sailer’s point about social media titans, from the NY Post:

    Sheryl Sandberg has not made a public statement or commented about her husband’s death. The family is expected to hold an invitation-only celebration of Goldberg’s life on Tuesday at Stanford Memorial Auditorium in California.

    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.

    Mourners have also been urged to not take pictures or make social-media posts related to the event “out of respect for the family.”

    http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/sheryl-sandbergs-husband-died-exercising-in-mexico/

    • Replies: @Jonathan Silber
    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,”

    Men looking to pay their respects can consider themselves lucky that the deceased cultivated no lifelong hatred of underwear.

    , @Forbes

    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.
     
    Goldberg deems his "lifelong hatred of ties" should survive his death. Seems petty. More "celebrate diversity, so long as we all think alike" nonsense.
  5. Even if Goldberg’s death wasn’t directly caused by cartel violence, it’s possible that the closing of roads by violence may have prevented him from getting medical treatment for a severe accidental injury.

  6. But why did the Cartel terrorists hide the body in the gym next to the treadmill for his brother to find?

    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "But why did the Cartel terrorists hide the body in the gym next to the treadmill for his brother to find?"

    Perhaps that's simply the room where the murder took place, and the body was simply left to lie where it fell?
  7. Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You’ve had a great run this year. I really mean that — you’ve been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I’d rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    • Replies: @Bill
    Beyond parody
    , @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?
    , @Chang
    I never really understand concern troll style comments that attempt to get a writer to not write or think or say certain ideas. Especially here. Especially at Sailer.

    First of all, they're are just dumb. Second, do they ever work?

    If Steve listened to concern trolls he obviously wouldn't write 95% of the stuff he's written in the last decade.

    The whole, "I wouldn't write this if I were you. I'm just so concerned about your career and credibility and I'm trying to help you, so you might want to just shut-up about this topic." -- it's incredibly grating.

    Especially at a place like Unz and to a writer like Steve.

    If you think he's wrong, tell him he's wrong and why, don't do this dumb concern troll schtick.

    , @Mr. Anon
    Sheryl Sandberg is a scold and a busy-body. She is also, as it appears, a bit of a hypocrite - in that her fortune is based on Facebook, an internet platform which encourages its members to broadcast their lives on the internet. That is not incidental to Facebook's business. It IS Facebook's business. If you are on Facebook, then YOU are their product - they sell information about you to marketers and data-miners.

    Wealthy, powerful people who very publicly tell other people how they should live end up with the public scrutiny they deserve.
    , @Cloudswrest
    Concern troll. F.O.
    , @The Man From K Street

    You’ve had a great run this year. I really mean that — you’ve been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I’d rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.
     
    I disagree. The greatest law professors often claim that they can teach the whole of the common law out of a single case.similarly, sometimes an incident comes around that incorporates so many divergent iSteve interests that it can't be ignored: Silicon Valley, third wave feminism, Mexico, middle-aged men, politics, social media, old media, corporate communications, the list goes on and on.
  8. “Mourners have also been urged to not take pictures or make social-media posts related to the event “out of respect for the family.””

    Everyone should refrain from using Facebook, forever – out of respect for Sandberg’s family.

  9. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    While that might be interesting, it is more interesting what is and has happened with respect to Baltimore.

    Seems the knife might have been illegal under the appropriate law:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/05/it-begins-the-knife-baltimore-prosecutor-mosby-said-wasnt-illegal-is-actually-illegal/#more-100424

    Seems also that Baltimore has already received some $1.8B in stuimulus money under Obama and the Democrats, so his call for mo money seems a bit disingenuous:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/05/baltimore-city-received-1-8-billion-in-federal-stimulus-money/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Sundance, this plug is ridiculous even by your standards.

    Steve, this post is cheap clickbait containing nothing but wild speculation more fitting of the aforementioned Conservative Treehouse than of a serious journalist. You're better than this.
  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This is getting fishier.

    I bet his head trauma forensics are clearly criminal in nature. So you get the long delay in cause of reports and the hasty evacuation of the family.

    Just because the body was found in the gym doesn’t mean the trauma occurred there.

    Bungled ransom or perhaps mundane murder by a local or another guest.

  11. What will Fred Reed’s comment be on the situation?

  12. @charlie
    Steve, it's your blog, but I don't think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.


    He is also a private person -- 99.995% of Americans don't give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You've had a great run this year. I really mean that -- you've been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I'd rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    Beyond parody

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I completely agree with the "concern troll".

    I can't believe nobody else is posting a comment in support of the so-called troll and it makes me question the intelligence/rationality of readership Steve has or at least those who regularly comment.

    Talk about Occam's butterknife. Steve cites violent incidents committed on the same day somewhere in the same state as a coincidence. Christ think about how stupid it is to claim this is a noteworthy coincidence when a drug war has been going on for years and the location of the dead guy is merely in the same state or multi-state region.

    On the basis of this so called coincidence and nothing more, Steve presents possible a stray bullet scenario at a Four Seasons resort. That's really easy to cover up. It's not like there wouldn't be 500 outspoken, well heeled guests that could contradict the story.

    Steve, this is the stupidest post you've ever written to introduce a novel idea.
  13. I appreciate Steve continuing to highlight this story because it is bizarre on its face, which doesn’t make it untrue. On the other hand we want to be careful about taking this too far down the rabbit hole of Vince Foster and Sarah Palin giving birth to her own special needs granddaughter.

    In fairness, however, I think what’s really being discussed here is not so much the weird death of David Goldberg — whose private person status was negated by his famous spouse who used him as a prop in her agenda — but rather his wife, her ideological and proto-political associations, and the entire world of social media. In short, how does Facebook mourn? And has anyone’s conduct here been consistent with the product they are selling? And, WRT a comment Steve made yesterday, if Sheryl Sandberg does indeed put her political ambitions ahead of the kids at this point, I say, bad move.

    Bottom line, it’s kind of hard to have private grief and private family focus when dealing with persons who have been loud in selling their private lives as a model for everyone else. They can have it, and they’ll get it, if they want it, but not without the dying echo of cafeteria chatter. Which is what we are doing here.

    On a related note, I see that Nelly Bly pushed off both Karl Marx and Cinco de Mayo from Google today.

    • Replies: @JV
    Social media is not an all or nothing tool. People choose which parts of their lives they want to share, some people share a lot more than others. So, I don't think it's hypocritical for even the COO of Facebook to ask for privacy during a funeral. There's a time for sharing and a time for keeping the damn smartphone in your pocket.
  14. @charlie
    Steve, it's your blog, but I don't think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.


    He is also a private person -- 99.995% of Americans don't give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You've had a great run this year. I really mean that -- you've been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I'd rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.

    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg’s death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That’s the kind of wound you’d expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell… The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn’t involve a “pool of blood” or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg’s case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg’s death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    No, he is not a “private person.” Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her “lean in” concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it’s worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that’s the case, shouldn’t we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn’t that inform Americans’ decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn’t it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I agree with all this. Someone help me out but I think in Public Enemy Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull. And I believe I have read somewhere that Mary Phagan accidentally died the same way (while struggling with either Frank or the black dude.)

    If you fall in just the right way on a sharp object you can sustain a one inch cut to the back of the skull that will effectively kill you or vegetabalize you: I'm willing to be corrected on this point.

    However, this case does present oddities, above and beyond the rarity and unlikelihood of the injury as stated; including the associated violence, the corrupt venue of the accident, the hurried departure, lack of information for three days, and probable lack of forensic followup in the United States.
    , @charlie
    @BillP: shoud have been more clear.

    The delay in reporting the cause of death was having to do an autopsy. You can't tell at the scene, although you can have an idea.
    , @Psuedo Nom Nom Nom
    The speed of the treadmill is irrelevant. So much of issue with falling is whether you can control parts of your body as you fall. I know someone who had a seizure and fell onto their plush suburban lawn, at very low speeds, but because they couldn't control their body they tore up just about every muscle, tendon, and ligament in their left shoulder when they landed on it. Similarly, falling on a treadmill sometimes means you can't control where land, or what you land on.

    I myself almost ended up like poor Mr. Goldberg. I was in a crowded dorm gym and ate shit on a treadmill going 5 mph while trying to do intervals on it (meaning I'd hop on and off the non-moving exterior to rest). I did some sort of 360 midair spin as I fell backwards and flew towards the square metal edges of a leg-lift stand that was behind and waaaaay to close to the treadmill.

    If I'd have been 6 inches to the right I would've likely had a heinous skull fracture, rather than the long gash in the skin above my ear that I ended up with.
    , @Blake White

    Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her “lean in” concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.
     
    I can't emphasize how much I agree with what you just wrote. I'm in my 30's and recently got married. My own lovely wife can't stop quoting Sandberg's book.
    , @Anonymous
    I had never heard of Goldberg before, but I did recognize Sandberg's face from the media, though I didn't know her name was Sandberg. I knew it was "something-berg", but didn't know if it was Goldberg, Sandberg, or Zuckerberg until now. I had heard Mark Zuckerberg's sister worked at Facebook.
    , @Alec Leamas
    Shame there won't be a proper wake, as he'll be missing the opportunity to be baptized in the cratur and rise from the dead.
  15. Chang says:
    @charlie
    Steve, it's your blog, but I don't think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.


    He is also a private person -- 99.995% of Americans don't give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You've had a great run this year. I really mean that -- you've been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I'd rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    I never really understand concern troll style comments that attempt to get a writer to not write or think or say certain ideas. Especially here. Especially at Sailer.

    First of all, they’re are just dumb. Second, do they ever work?

    If Steve listened to concern trolls he obviously wouldn’t write 95% of the stuff he’s written in the last decade.

    The whole, “I wouldn’t write this if I were you. I’m just so concerned about your career and credibility and I’m trying to help you, so you might want to just shut-up about this topic.” — it’s incredibly grating.

    Especially at a place like Unz and to a writer like Steve.

    If you think he’s wrong, tell him he’s wrong and why, don’t do this dumb concern troll schtick.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Re: Concern Trolls - Well said.
  16. It sounds like there is a good chance the poor man was murdered as part of a whack-a-random-rich-gringo operation to show the politicians and public the cartel is serious.

    If your imagination is running away with you.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Art Deco says:

    ""It sounds like there is a good chance the poor man was murdered as part of a whack-a-random-rich-gringo operation to show the politicians and public the cartel is serious.""

    If your imagination is running away with you."

    Not a danger for you, as you lack any imagination.

  17. @charlie
    Steve, it's your blog, but I don't think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.


    He is also a private person -- 99.995% of Americans don't give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You've had a great run this year. I really mean that -- you've been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I'd rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    Sheryl Sandberg is a scold and a busy-body. She is also, as it appears, a bit of a hypocrite – in that her fortune is based on Facebook, an internet platform which encourages its members to broadcast their lives on the internet. That is not incidental to Facebook’s business. It IS Facebook’s business. If you are on Facebook, then YOU are their product – they sell information about you to marketers and data-miners.

    Wealthy, powerful people who very publicly tell other people how they should live end up with the public scrutiny they deserve.

    • Replies: @Blake White
    You have to have some sympathy for the fact that her husband just died decades before his time.
  18. @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    I agree with all this. Someone help me out but I think in Public Enemy Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull. And I believe I have read somewhere that Mary Phagan accidentally died the same way (while struggling with either Frank or the black dude.)

    If you fall in just the right way on a sharp object you can sustain a one inch cut to the back of the skull that will effectively kill you or vegetabalize you: I’m willing to be corrected on this point.

    However, this case does present oddities, above and beyond the rarity and unlikelihood of the injury as stated; including the associated violence, the corrupt venue of the accident, the hurried departure, lack of information for three days, and probable lack of forensic followup in the United States.

    • Replies: @Jeff W.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.
     
    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill's motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort's gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve's astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P's comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

  19. The rich and powerful suffer and die just like the rest of us. Mr. Goldberg was both, and relished speaking power to truth. It didn’t save him from an ugly and unfortunate death.

    The things Mr. Goldberg apparently worshipped- wealth, power, and the peculiar combination expressed in upper-class feminism- are brief, fleeting illusions. One minute you’re enjoying a Four Seasons resort, the next the bag of meat, blood, pus and tears we call our body begins its return to its constituent elements.

    It may seem hard to pity these people, but they live on the edge of the abyss, and they know it. The less fortunate have their small comforts, of religion or a better mortal existence, for themselves or their children. Things may not be good now, but they may get better. For the rich things cannot get better, they enjoy everything that can possibly be enjoyed, and they quickly tire of the pleasure. But to indulge in such peasant comforts as belief in God or an afterlife would be gauche, so they double down on the hedonism and the social justice activism.

    We know not the day nor the hour.

    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Thank you so much for this comment, Thrasymachus. We all need to stop worshipping money and power as it's all a chasing after the wind.

    "you fool, this very night your life will be required of you."
    , @Mark Eugenikos
    Amen.
    , @colm
    Except Mr. Goldberg was not toos. He was like Gatsby.

    toos never dies. They will laugh at Goldberg's death.
  20. Charlie did you just leave a horse’s head in Steves’s blog?

  21. @J.Ross
    Why is advertising for tourism in Mexico not regarded as comparable to the little fake tours that the DPRK offers? It seems comparable: both are more about a sinister pretence to normality than anything else.

    Because (depending on where you go, and what you do) it’s a great time in a beautiful place? Because Mexico is not a hermetically sealed police state ruled by a hereditary dictator?

  22. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A grown man went to the gym at a luxurious Four Seasons resort at 4pm and is discovered by his own brother almost 3 hours later alive but in a pool of his own blood with a 1.18 inch gash to the skull. State officials and the general manager of the resort giving conflicting statements about at what resort the fatal fall even occurred. Pretty classic scenario we have here.

    • Replies: @penntothal
    The 3 hours is the unbelievable part.
    I've used many gyms at upscale hotels and resorts over the years.
    Besides the fact that there is usually an attendant (handing out towels, checking ID, etc.)
    the foot traffic of other guests is always such that you couldn't have an unresponsive bleeding person go un-noticed for an hour, let alone three.
  23. Steve is onto to something, Goldberg could have been a easy target of opportunity, rub out a el hefe in a exclusive resort to send a message that all are fair game for the cartels. And it would explain why his wife ran off like a scalded cat – she was probably informed the cartels did it or were nearby.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't think the cartel theory is very plausible unless he died under different circumstances e.g. he was outside somewhere or at a restaurant that the cartel shot up. If he was indeed murdered while on the treadmill, then I think it's unlikely it was cartel related.
    , @Stan D Mute

    Steve is onto to something, Goldberg could have been a easy target of opportunity, rub out a el hefe in a exclusive resort to send a message that all are fair game for the cartels. And it would explain why his wife ran off like a scalded cat – she was probably informed the cartels did it or were nearby.
     
    It's also a case where upsetting the status quo is cataclysmic. Nobody seriously wants to shut down the cartels. If they did, we would see predator drones, Navy SEALs, aircraft carriers off the coast of Columbia, etc. We don't. It's all a scam designed to fool just enough of the gullible masses. Our elites like their occasional snorts of blow and our bankers like the billions and billions of dollars generated even more. You don't think a good sum of those dollars are buying campaign political ads on TV?

    And from Sandberg's perspective, if she talks to press about a cartel murder of hubby, does she make herself a target? Does she have kids? Parents? Siblings?
  24. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It is interesting that Dave Goldberg’s brother was holidaying with him at the time. One wonders how often his brother associates with him, and whether he stood to gain anything from Dave’s death. This is not to say that the brother is necessarily implicated, as a frame-up is also possible. Mexico is a corrupt place.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I'd go on vacation with my billionaire brother.
  25. @Art Deco
    It sounds like there is a good chance the poor man was murdered as part of a whack-a-random-rich-gringo operation to show the politicians and public the cartel is serious.
    --
    If your imagination is running away with you.

    “Art Deco says:

    “”It sounds like there is a good chance the poor man was murdered as part of a whack-a-random-rich-gringo operation to show the politicians and public the cartel is serious.””

    If your imagination is running away with you.”

    Not a danger for you, as you lack any imagination.

  26. @Chang
    I never really understand concern troll style comments that attempt to get a writer to not write or think or say certain ideas. Especially here. Especially at Sailer.

    First of all, they're are just dumb. Second, do they ever work?

    If Steve listened to concern trolls he obviously wouldn't write 95% of the stuff he's written in the last decade.

    The whole, "I wouldn't write this if I were you. I'm just so concerned about your career and credibility and I'm trying to help you, so you might want to just shut-up about this topic." -- it's incredibly grating.

    Especially at a place like Unz and to a writer like Steve.

    If you think he's wrong, tell him he's wrong and why, don't do this dumb concern troll schtick.

    Re: Concern Trolls – Well said.

    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    Not well said. I'm very concerned that you're diluting the meaning of the term "concern troll". A concern troll is a guy who's very concerned about racism in places like Ferguson and thinks towns like that need to import more of the black underclass from his own gentrifying city with Section 8 vouchers so that those benighted Fergusonians can finally learn the virtue of tolerance. It's too valuable a phrase to waste on a comment like this with no conceivable agenda.

    (Unless you think that charlie is a member of a Mexican drug cartel or tourism board.)

  27. OT: Puerto Rico’s population swap: The middle class for millionaires

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32344131

  28. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    They shot down a helicopter, blocked major roads, set fire to eleven banks before withdrawing, all of it coordinated. This sounds like Afghanistan rather than crime gang violence; they’re taking on the government itself. Should they now be called rebels or insurgents rather than cartel members? Instead of expending money and effort in places like Iraq and Afghanistan we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force. We drove on Mexico City before and should have done so again, giving them a new system as we did with Germany and Japan.

    • Replies: @OsRazor
    "Instead of expending money and effort in places like Iraq and Afghanistan we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force. We drove on Mexico City before and should have done so again, giving them a new system as we did with Germany and Japan."

    A lot of good it would have done too. Probably as successful as what we see in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mexico will be Mexico because Mexico is full of Mexicans. A light-skinned elite ever trying to keep brown people away (or better in the US). When there's such a distance between those running the show and the rest a vacuum of civility opens up to all sorts of awful.

    Magically replace all the Mexicans with Germans and/or Japanese and your "new system" might work.

    , @Art Deco
    we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force.

    --

    There are not in Mexico (nor in any other Latin American country bar Cuba) any pustules to excise by a military operation. The country's shortcomings can only be addressed through patient institution-building.
  29. @Anonymous
    It is interesting that Dave Goldberg's brother was holidaying with him at the time. One wonders how often his brother associates with him, and whether he stood to gain anything from Dave's death. This is not to say that the brother is necessarily implicated, as a frame-up is also possible. Mexico is a corrupt place.

    I’d go on vacation with my billionaire brother.

  30. Speaking of weird things unsaid, anyone else think its odd that two days on Steve’s blog the only talk about Garland is occuring in shadow convos in the comments?

    • Replies: @Muse
    Usually this means he is working on the blog entry. Lot's of curious, but diffuse media activity regarding Garland that needs to be synthesized. Sailer needs an intern or two to chase leads.
  31. Perhaps Dave Goldberg’s family was initially silent on the cause of death … precisely so people would NOT draw the possibility that iSteve describes. If Dave Goldberg’s death was an accident, his family certainly knew of the cartel’s co-temporal terrorist attacks that, regardless, seems to explain their quick departure from the area. Of note, the family also remained silent about the terrorist attacks. iSteve, as he so often does, connected the dots (of logical possibility) that others were systematically avoiding out of respect for political correctness. Good job Steve!

  32. A random act by the cartel per Sailer’s theory?

    Goldberg’s the unluckiest bastard in the world. There have to be witnesses, something will come out.

    A targeted kidnapping gone bad?

    Cartel (or others) saw that he exercised alone and tried to nab him. He resisted. Again, there have to be witnesses.

    A crime of passion?

    Goldberg’s wife and brother are having an affair and/or some other attempt to extort Goldberg. Young boys and/or underage prostitutes are involved. The brother sees his chance, provides deep comfort to the widow. Unlikely that we’ll ever know anything.

    Association of Tie Manufacturers is behind the deed?

    Goldberg’s hatred of all things ties is well-known, a clear threat to the ATM. Goldberg must go.

    An overweight dweeb slips and falls?

    I’m rather uncoordinated and lack a lot of balance. I can easily see myself dying like this poor bastard.

    There’s a Cohen brothers movie in this somewhere.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    I’m rather uncoordinated and lack a lot of balance. I can easily see myself dying like this poor bastard.
     
    Me too. Two years ago I was riding my bike and somehow I ended up falling off for no apparent reason. One second I was on the bike and the next I was on the ground. I did not hit my head (and I was wearing a helmet anyway) but instead I totally broke my arm - clean snapped it in two above the wrist. I now have 2 stainless steel plates and a dozen big screws permanently holding the halves of my radius and ulna together. It could have been much worse - all the pieces fit back together and I'm mostly good as new now. If I had gone head first I might have ended up like poor Goldberg, except with less press coverage. There but for the grace of God go us all.
  33. @anonymous
    They shot down a helicopter, blocked major roads, set fire to eleven banks before withdrawing, all of it coordinated. This sounds like Afghanistan rather than crime gang violence; they're taking on the government itself. Should they now be called rebels or insurgents rather than cartel members? Instead of expending money and effort in places like Iraq and Afghanistan we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force. We drove on Mexico City before and should have done so again, giving them a new system as we did with Germany and Japan.

    “Instead of expending money and effort in places like Iraq and Afghanistan we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force. We drove on Mexico City before and should have done so again, giving them a new system as we did with Germany and Japan.”

    A lot of good it would have done too. Probably as successful as what we see in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mexico will be Mexico because Mexico is full of Mexicans. A light-skinned elite ever trying to keep brown people away (or better in the US). When there’s such a distance between those running the show and the rest a vacuum of civility opens up to all sorts of awful.

    Magically replace all the Mexicans with Germans and/or Japanese and your “new system” might work.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Well the Germans have a recent history of committing genocide against non-Germans such as the Herero genocide and the Holocaust. That suggests some shortcomings in civility, to say the least. So perhaps just as the Mexicans should be dealt with appropriately on account of their incivility, the Germans as well should be kept down and under control on account of their apparently endemic incivility.
  34. @J.Ross
    Why is advertising for tourism in Mexico not regarded as comparable to the little fake tours that the DPRK offers? It seems comparable: both are more about a sinister pretence to normality than anything else.

    “Mexico” is not a single place but a whole big country. There are parts of it that are controlled by drug gangs where you would not be safe in broad daylight with armed bodyguards and there are parts of it that are gated resort communities that are as safe as anywhere on earth. And as we have seen in Baltimore, these parts maybe be located quite close to each other. The people staying at the Four Seasons Baltimore never saw any rioters except on the flat screen TVs in their suites even though the riots were only a mile or two away.

    The same could be said of the US, and indeed every once in a while some European tourist makes a wrong turn and ends up in one of the darker parts of Miami and gets in big trouble.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So it's perfectly safe, except where it isn't, and the line distinguishing those two Mexicos is blurry, shrinking and covered in blood. Sounds magnificent.
    When you vacation in fake tourisy areas of Cuba or DPRK, you give money and legitimacy to the worst criminals in that country. In Mexico the tourist enclaves are as you say gated and somewhat better than what the locals know; also there is the funky interconnectedness of their baksheesh and patronage economy. So you are supporting an idealized version and probably supporting cartels.
    (In Detroit we have the Heidelberg Project, where sensitive Europeans come to take ghetto selfies and support a local egomaniac.)
    With tourist resorts like these, maybe we will finally recognize that a state of war has already been in effect, and respond.
  35. A video on youtube shows an autistic man in Britain being decked by a thug with a single punch. He falls over backwards, like a log, his head impacts the ground. Dead as a doornail.

    Force of Goldberg felled by stroke or heart attack, falling over backwards
    minus extra force from punch
    plus extra force from unsupported travel of head due to height differential from treadmill to floor
    = same result as what happened in UK. Dead as a doornail.

    Only surprise is that it doesn’t happen more often.

    • Replies: @Flinders Petrie
    Given the mechanics of treadmills, it seems unlikely that he would sustain an injury to the back of the head. Most treadmill fails involve face plants and scorpions:

    http://youtu.be/qNPhVVjnoC0

    Unless he got thrown off the back into a rack or dumbbell at high velocity. I can't imagine someone with his physique cranking it up that fast though.
  36. If the the narcos wanted to kill Goldberg they wouldn’t have set it up look like an accident. Cui Bono? They are organized crime, not terrorists who have read a lot of Agatha Christie. You guys need to take your tin hats off.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    I think it's that Goldberg was simply a tourist who may have been killed to ruin the tourist trade as part of the much wider "day of rage" terror campaign. It's the hotel owners and local police who'd want to make it look like an accident in such a scenario.
    , @David
    The idea is that the reports of the death have been scripted to conceal its actual nature, not that the murderers, if there were any, were trying to conceal their motive. Steve doesn't reason why, he just presents some curious circumstances. But you're right. If I were those narcos, I 'd claim the murder as my own act. Are you like a war-time consigliere?
  37. @Thrasymachus
    The rich and powerful suffer and die just like the rest of us. Mr. Goldberg was both, and relished speaking power to truth. It didn't save him from an ugly and unfortunate death.

    The things Mr. Goldberg apparently worshipped- wealth, power, and the peculiar combination expressed in upper-class feminism- are brief, fleeting illusions. One minute you're enjoying a Four Seasons resort, the next the bag of meat, blood, pus and tears we call our body begins its return to its constituent elements.

    It may seem hard to pity these people, but they live on the edge of the abyss, and they know it. The less fortunate have their small comforts, of religion or a better mortal existence, for themselves or their children. Things may not be good now, but they may get better. For the rich things cannot get better, they enjoy everything that can possibly be enjoyed, and they quickly tire of the pleasure. But to indulge in such peasant comforts as belief in God or an afterlife would be gauche, so they double down on the hedonism and the social justice activism.

    We know not the day nor the hour.

    Thank you so much for this comment, Thrasymachus. We all need to stop worshipping money and power as it’s all a chasing after the wind.

    “you fool, this very night your life will be required of you.”

  38. Occam’s Razor says that the simplest explanation for an overweight middle aged guy dropping dead next to a treadmill is that the treadmill had something to do with it and Mexican drug cartels did not.

    It was admittedly a freak accident – treadmills don’t kill many adults. But freak accidents happen now and then – that’s what makes them freak accidents. Sometimes the very richness of super-rich people ends up hurting them. If Goldberg was an ordinary Jewish rich guy instead of a plutocrat, he would have been staying next door at the Four Seasons and using the hotel gym and as soon as he slipped off, someone else in the gym would have called for help. But he was so damn rich that he didn’t have to pant in the presence of even other moderately rich people, he could afford his own private gym where he could bleed to death alone. Karma is a bitch.

    If the cartel wanted to kidnap him, they would have gotten farther than just leaving him in place. If they wanted to send a “no one is safe” message, they would have machine gunned him or cut off his head or something – they are not subtle kind of guys.

    That being said, I can understand why the surviving Sandberg/Goldbergs did not want to stick around and complete their beachside vacation, even if the $11,500/day was prepaid to the end of the week and was non-refundable.

  39. @Thrasymachus
    The rich and powerful suffer and die just like the rest of us. Mr. Goldberg was both, and relished speaking power to truth. It didn't save him from an ugly and unfortunate death.

    The things Mr. Goldberg apparently worshipped- wealth, power, and the peculiar combination expressed in upper-class feminism- are brief, fleeting illusions. One minute you're enjoying a Four Seasons resort, the next the bag of meat, blood, pus and tears we call our body begins its return to its constituent elements.

    It may seem hard to pity these people, but they live on the edge of the abyss, and they know it. The less fortunate have their small comforts, of religion or a better mortal existence, for themselves or their children. Things may not be good now, but they may get better. For the rich things cannot get better, they enjoy everything that can possibly be enjoyed, and they quickly tire of the pleasure. But to indulge in such peasant comforts as belief in God or an afterlife would be gauche, so they double down on the hedonism and the social justice activism.

    We know not the day nor the hour.

    Amen.

  40. I’m reminded of Tommy’s demise in Goodfellas, and a shocked Jimmy being told on the payphone “he’s gone.”

  41. @Retired
    If the the narcos wanted to kill Goldberg they wouldn't have set it up look like an accident. Cui Bono? They are organized crime, not terrorists who have read a lot of Agatha Christie. You guys need to take your tin hats off.

    I think it’s that Goldberg was simply a tourist who may have been killed to ruin the tourist trade as part of the much wider “day of rage” terror campaign. It’s the hotel owners and local police who’d want to make it look like an accident in such a scenario.

  42. @OsRazor
    A random act by the cartel per Sailer's theory?

    Goldberg's the unluckiest bastard in the world. There have to be witnesses, something will come out.

    A targeted kidnapping gone bad?

    Cartel (or others) saw that he exercised alone and tried to nab him. He resisted. Again, there have to be witnesses.

    A crime of passion?

    Goldberg's wife and brother are having an affair and/or some other attempt to extort Goldberg. Young boys and/or underage prostitutes are involved. The brother sees his chance, provides deep comfort to the widow. Unlikely that we'll ever know anything.

    Association of Tie Manufacturers is behind the deed?

    Goldberg's hatred of all things ties is well-known, a clear threat to the ATM. Goldberg must go.

    An overweight dweeb slips and falls?

    I'm rather uncoordinated and lack a lot of balance. I can easily see myself dying like this poor bastard.

    There's a Cohen brothers movie in this somewhere.

    I’m rather uncoordinated and lack a lot of balance. I can easily see myself dying like this poor bastard.

    Me too. Two years ago I was riding my bike and somehow I ended up falling off for no apparent reason. One second I was on the bike and the next I was on the ground. I did not hit my head (and I was wearing a helmet anyway) but instead I totally broke my arm – clean snapped it in two above the wrist. I now have 2 stainless steel plates and a dozen big screws permanently holding the halves of my radius and ulna together. It could have been much worse – all the pieces fit back together and I’m mostly good as new now. If I had gone head first I might have ended up like poor Goldberg, except with less press coverage. There but for the grace of God go us all.

  43. Are autopsy reports publicly available information?

  44. A significant question is what caused him to fall off the treadmill. Did he have a cardiac arrhythmia, syncope and then fall sustaining the putative fatal head injury. It seems unlikely that he merely fell due to inattention etc. It is a safe assumption that it was not his first time on a treadmill. Seizure is also a possibility.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My mother-in-law died in a one-vehicle crash in 1989. She was an excellent driver, so it seems plausible that she had some kind of medical event that caused her to lose control.
    , @Alfa158
    I use treadmills and my experience is that they can quickly "eject" you if your attention lags and you simply misstep. They say that there are only two kinds of motorcycle riders, the ones who have dropped their bike and the ones who will drop their bike. Treadmills are pretty much the same deal. The mystery is how he got that particular injury. The ones I use don't have anything behind them that will puncture your skull after an ejection. The biggest danger is to your hands or face as your feet get thrown back from under you.
  45. @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    P: shoud have been more clear.

    The delay in reporting the cause of death was having to do an autopsy. You can’t tell at the scene, although you can have an idea.

  46. @Joel
    But why did the Cartel terrorists hide the body in the gym next to the treadmill for his brother to find?

    “But why did the Cartel terrorists hide the body in the gym next to the treadmill for his brother to find?”

    Perhaps that’s simply the room where the murder took place, and the body was simply left to lie where it fell?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    I concur - I don't think the narcoterrorist cartels fear the authorities, whom they've either bought or intimidated.

    Perhaps it was a kidnapping for ransom attempt that went bad when Goldberg resisted.

    But either way and regardless of whether this was truly an accident, someone whose healthy net worth is listed in her wikipedia profile has proved herself to be less than the smartest woman "leaning in" by traveling to a 3d world gangster state. I'm certain there were any number of usual precautions, but the corruption is just too deep and pervasive to eliminate the possibility that someone on the inside would be working them.
  47. @SPMoore8
    I agree with all this. Someone help me out but I think in Public Enemy Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull. And I believe I have read somewhere that Mary Phagan accidentally died the same way (while struggling with either Frank or the black dude.)

    If you fall in just the right way on a sharp object you can sustain a one inch cut to the back of the skull that will effectively kill you or vegetabalize you: I'm willing to be corrected on this point.

    However, this case does present oddities, above and beyond the rarity and unlikelihood of the injury as stated; including the associated violence, the corrupt venue of the accident, the hurried departure, lack of information for three days, and probable lack of forensic followup in the United States.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.

    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort’s gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve’s astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P’s comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only
     
    In the other thread, someone mentioned an accident where someone had suffered a coronary and then pitched forward and hit part of the treadmill. In the more common not keeping up with the pace of the treadmill accidents the belt is going to carry you back, but if you "collapse" first (which is what was stated in the press re: Goldberg) you might strike your head on the control panel of the treadmill or the side bars or land face down on the belt.
    , @HA
    "I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills."

    They do not need to be sharp or pointed to be lethal. Ever whack your head into a weight rack? I could easily picture someone doing that and not getting up afterwards.

    " There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding,..."

    In the gyms I've been to, treadmills are usually lumped together in order to accommodate the post-workday rush. In the hotels I've visited, gyms are often out-of-the-way places renovated from basements and the like, with posts and radiators and a/c units conspicuously and inconveniently present. The notion that every treadmill has a large open space behind it is fantasy.

    "Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding....The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible."

    The only surefire direction in which people fall is downward, and this was no exception. He may well have fallen headfirst, then gotten up and staggered around shouting "ouch" before tripping and falling backwards onto something. Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways. Freak accidents are rare -- indeed, freakishly so, if you prefer the tautology -- but they do happen.

    I'm not saying there was no foul play. Proving a negative is difficult. But determining that he died from an accident seems far more believable than your dismissals.

    , @Thought Police
    Steve's spidey senses are tingling - I will always respect the man's spidey sense. I would say he published this not because he felt he was in ANY way right but because his Spidey senses required further honing from his commentariat. Probably a dead-end and going no where (he knows this) but let the man work dammit!

    Totally unrelated, but Sheryl Sandeberg's first husband seems an interesting case: Very scant information on him. Not mentioned by name on her meticulously glowing and self-serving Wikipedia page. The feminist icon married the rich businessman for oooh just about enough time to consummate it back when she was doing her MBA.

    Did the feminist icon who is no doubt a clever gal also use her womanly woman-ness for a helping hand? Is "Lean-in" coded language for "Show some cleavage ladies"?
    , @Anonymous
    You don't need sharp, pointed objects to get cut if here's sufficient force. That's why boxers get cut all the time by blunt leather gloves.

    Also, according to the "Do You Speak American?" documentary on American dialects, the Scotch-Irish dialect in the US is characterized by indirect speech and expression.
    , @dearieme
    "my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression." Fuck off.
  48. Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.

    My goodness, they’re even bobos in funeral arrangements.

  49. @slumber_j
    Further to Steve Sailer's point about social media titans, from the NY Post:

    Sheryl Sandberg has not made a public statement or commented about her husband’s death. The family is expected to hold an invitation-only celebration of Goldberg’s life on Tuesday at Stanford Memorial Auditorium in California.

    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.

    Mourners have also been urged to not take pictures or make social-media posts related to the event “out of respect for the family.”
     
    http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/sheryl-sandbergs-husband-died-exercising-in-mexico/

    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,”

    Men looking to pay their respects can consider themselves lucky that the deceased cultivated no lifelong hatred of underwear.

  50. @markflag
    A significant question is what caused him to fall off the treadmill. Did he have a cardiac arrhythmia, syncope and then fall sustaining the putative fatal head injury. It seems unlikely that he merely fell due to inattention etc. It is a safe assumption that it was not his first time on a treadmill. Seizure is also a possibility.

    My mother-in-law died in a one-vehicle crash in 1989. She was an excellent driver, so it seems plausible that she had some kind of medical event that caused her to lose control.

  51. @anonymous
    They shot down a helicopter, blocked major roads, set fire to eleven banks before withdrawing, all of it coordinated. This sounds like Afghanistan rather than crime gang violence; they're taking on the government itself. Should they now be called rebels or insurgents rather than cartel members? Instead of expending money and effort in places like Iraq and Afghanistan we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force. We drove on Mexico City before and should have done so again, giving them a new system as we did with Germany and Japan.

    we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force.

    There are not in Mexico (nor in any other Latin American country bar Cuba) any pustules to excise by a military operation. The country’s shortcomings can only be addressed through patient institution-building.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Mexico has been around longer than the United States has, up until 1800, it was wealthier.

    The problem isn't a lack of institutions, it's the reality of race and culture.
  52. The only thing that would make the apparent cause of death interesting to me is if the reason he fell off the treadmill was because he was distracted with Facebook on his phone. Which actually doesn’t seem that farfetched.

    Indeed, the most interesting part of this story is, I think, the request for no Facebooking at the funeral. These people sense, deep down, the vulgarity of social media. I guess this is just the white collar version of “don’t get high on your own supply.”

  53. Well, my only knowledge of these events comes from reading my regular newspapers and a few of Steve’s posts, but the whole story does seem pretty suspicious and odd to me…

    • Replies: @Crassus
    Yes. I assumed it was a heart attack when I read the early obituaries that didn't include a cause of death. An overweight 47-year-old type-A man who dies working out by any cause other than heart attack — or maybe stroke — is highly unusual: http://worldcrass.com/2015/05/05/steve-sailer-notes-suspicious-circumstances-in-death-of-dave-goldberg/ .
  54. @Jeff W.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.
     
    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill's motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort's gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve's astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P's comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

    Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only

    In the other thread, someone mentioned an accident where someone had suffered a coronary and then pitched forward and hit part of the treadmill. In the more common not keeping up with the pace of the treadmill accidents the belt is going to carry you back, but if you “collapse” first (which is what was stated in the press re: Goldberg) you might strike your head on the control panel of the treadmill or the side bars or land face down on the belt.

  55. @charlie
    Steve, it's your blog, but I don't think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.


    He is also a private person -- 99.995% of Americans don't give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You've had a great run this year. I really mean that -- you've been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I'd rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    Concern troll. F.O.

  56. @Mr. Anon
    Re: Concern Trolls - Well said.

    Not well said. I’m very concerned that you’re diluting the meaning of the term “concern troll”. A concern troll is a guy who’s very concerned about racism in places like Ferguson and thinks towns like that need to import more of the black underclass from his own gentrifying city with Section 8 vouchers so that those benighted Fergusonians can finally learn the virtue of tolerance. It’s too valuable a phrase to waste on a comment like this with no conceivable agenda.

    (Unless you think that charlie is a member of a Mexican drug cartel or tourism board.)

    • Replies: @Cloudswrest
    A "concern troll" is anyone who disingenuously posts comments or attacks you under the guise of "constructive criticism", or showing "concern" for your reputation, success, future development, etc. It has nothing, per se, specifically to do with racism.
  57. HA says:
    @Jeff W.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.
     
    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill's motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort's gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve's astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P's comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

    “I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills.”

    They do not need to be sharp or pointed to be lethal. Ever whack your head into a weight rack? I could easily picture someone doing that and not getting up afterwards.

    ” There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding,…”

    In the gyms I’ve been to, treadmills are usually lumped together in order to accommodate the post-workday rush. In the hotels I’ve visited, gyms are often out-of-the-way places renovated from basements and the like, with posts and radiators and a/c units conspicuously and inconveniently present. The notion that every treadmill has a large open space behind it is fantasy.

    “Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding….The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible.”

    The only surefire direction in which people fall is downward, and this was no exception. He may well have fallen headfirst, then gotten up and staggered around shouting “ouch” before tripping and falling backwards onto something. Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways. Freak accidents are rare — indeed, freakishly so, if you prefer the tautology — but they do happen.

    I’m not saying there was no foul play. Proving a negative is difficult. But determining that he died from an accident seems far more believable than your dismissals.

    • Replies: @Adam
    I'm afraid I may have forgotten how to walk after reading this sentence:

    "Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways."

    At any rate, I'm afraid to try. Someone please call the paramedics.

    More seriously, this is a great post. What sort of odds would you have to give a scenario like this to make speculating -- while acknowledging that it's a speculation -- worthwhile? I'd say this story easily passes that threshold -- whatever it is. So long as you lay your facts out and don't insist on more certainty than they can support, what's the downside?
    , @Anonym
    You find these posts and radiators in gyms that the uber-rich stay at? Maybe you stay at some low-rent hotels, but at 5 star hotels they usually put a modicum of thought into the facilities. Googling "hotel gym treadmill" turns up about half and half gyms where treadmills are well placed, and gyms where they have a wall or another piece of gym equipment behind the treadmill. So perhaps it is possible that he cracked his head open on some poorly placed object behind the treadmill, but just as possible that the gym was well designed and attended to.

    The richer and more powerful someone is, the more numerous, the better resourced and the more intelligent their enemies are, as a rule. Which is a function of the circles they move in, their profile, and the more others stand to profit from their death. Often they don't even realize that some of those they think of as their friends and acquaintances are actually their enemies. (This can also apply to their family members.) When a murder is planned, it is better in general for those who plan it that there is not a full-blown homicide investigation, so it is often staged to look like something other than a homicide.

    Needless to say, this applies to billionaires especially, and high profile billionaires even more so. High intelligence and a touch of paranoia are very useful traits for wealthy people for this reason. Thrust someone without those traits into a position of extreme wealth and it is a situation for which they are not well adapted. Anna Nicole Smith comes to mind.
  58. A kind of deep headwound that leaves its victims in a pool of their own blood is a gunshot wound.

    People are speculating about Dave Goldberg being hit over the head with a dumbbell, but dumbbells are not often used as murder weapons.

    Firearms are employed much more frequently and are tools designed for the task.

    • Replies: @Bill P

    A kind of deep headwound that leaves its victims in a pool of their own blood is a gunshot wound.

    People are speculating about Dave Goldberg being hit over the head with a dumbbell, but dumbbells are not often used as murder weapons.

    Firearms are employed much more frequently and are tools designed for the task.
     
    That's what I was thinking. Penetrating head wound to occiput sounds rather like a run-of-the-mill hit to me. Use standard low-velocity, hollowpoint handgun round (e.g. .380) and there probably won't be an exit wound. A layman who found the victim in a pool of blood wouldn't think to check for the signature entry wound, and the Mexican cops and officials in a state that depends heavily on tourism would have an enormous incentive to lie and destroy evidence. Also, they were probably panicking on that particular day.

    Maybe the cops told the family to leave immediately (for their own safety, of course...), and then when they were conveniently gone staged a coverup. Would this be unthinkable in Mexico?
  59. Perhaps Rube Goldberg was involved….

  60. @Jack Hanson
    Speaking of weird things unsaid, anyone else think its odd that two days on Steve's blog the only talk about Garland is occuring in shadow convos in the comments?

    Usually this means he is working on the blog entry. Lot’s of curious, but diffuse media activity regarding Garland that needs to be synthesized. Sailer needs an intern or two to chase leads.

  61. More than 30 years ago, the actor William Holden got really drunk and fell down in his apartment. In doing so he struck his head on the corner of a table. He suffered a serious head injury and bled to death. So these things can certainly happen.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Yeah, I remember that. He was a good actor, -and- he took his money from Bridge Over The River Kwai, which I think was $1 million, as an annuity, so he had no money worries. Plus he was banging Stephanie Powers at the time. His greatest movie was The Wild Bunch. RIP
  62. Isaac Hayes died on his treadmill. It does happen.

  63. I’m glad Steve is running with this story.

    (1) when I first heard about the tragedy after the ink tail sympathy I wanted to know cause of death. The fact that there were no details forthcoming (from a very sophisticated & press-savvy group) was a red herring.

    (2) the CEO of Survey Monkey did not die so much as Sheryl Sandberg’s husband and the reason we know who Sheryl Sandberg is because of aggressive self-promotion (and natural interest- high ranking woman in Silicon Valley). Who’s the CTO of Facebook as an example?

    Whatever the circumstances there have been obvious attempts to manage the media and “control the message” (hence why I assumed that it was a suicide but that was ruled out).

    This story sort of confirms that the mainstream media is completely coopted; the days of an independent investigative journalist actually going down there, snooping around are pretty much over (even though ironically information is more available than ever because of social media, just not the right sort of information).

  64. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Jack D
    "Mexico" is not a single place but a whole big country. There are parts of it that are controlled by drug gangs where you would not be safe in broad daylight with armed bodyguards and there are parts of it that are gated resort communities that are as safe as anywhere on earth. And as we have seen in Baltimore, these parts maybe be located quite close to each other. The people staying at the Four Seasons Baltimore never saw any rioters except on the flat screen TVs in their suites even though the riots were only a mile or two away.

    The same could be said of the US, and indeed every once in a while some European tourist makes a wrong turn and ends up in one of the darker parts of Miami and gets in big trouble.

    So it’s perfectly safe, except where it isn’t, and the line distinguishing those two Mexicos is blurry, shrinking and covered in blood. Sounds magnificent.
    When you vacation in fake tourisy areas of Cuba or DPRK, you give money and legitimacy to the worst criminals in that country. In Mexico the tourist enclaves are as you say gated and somewhat better than what the locals know; also there is the funky interconnectedness of their baksheesh and patronage economy. So you are supporting an idealized version and probably supporting cartels.
    (In Detroit we have the Heidelberg Project, where sensitive Europeans come to take ghetto selfies and support a local egomaniac.)
    With tourist resorts like these, maybe we will finally recognize that a state of war has already been in effect, and respond.

  65. @charlie
    Steve, it's your blog, but I don't think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.


    He is also a private person -- 99.995% of Americans don't give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.

    You've had a great run this year. I really mean that -- you've been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I'd rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    You’ve had a great run this year. I really mean that — you’ve been nailing it. Your timing has been perfect. I’d rather have your arguments gain credibility rather than lose them.

    I disagree. The greatest law professors often claim that they can teach the whole of the common law out of a single case.similarly, sometimes an incident comes around that incorporates so many divergent iSteve interests that it can’t be ignored: Silicon Valley, third wave feminism, Mexico, middle-aged men, politics, social media, old media, corporate communications, the list goes on and on.

  66. @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    The speed of the treadmill is irrelevant. So much of issue with falling is whether you can control parts of your body as you fall. I know someone who had a seizure and fell onto their plush suburban lawn, at very low speeds, but because they couldn’t control their body they tore up just about every muscle, tendon, and ligament in their left shoulder when they landed on it. Similarly, falling on a treadmill sometimes means you can’t control where land, or what you land on.

    I myself almost ended up like poor Mr. Goldberg. I was in a crowded dorm gym and ate shit on a treadmill going 5 mph while trying to do intervals on it (meaning I’d hop on and off the non-moving exterior to rest). I did some sort of 360 midair spin as I fell backwards and flew towards the square metal edges of a leg-lift stand that was behind and waaaaay to close to the treadmill.

    If I’d have been 6 inches to the right I would’ve likely had a heinous skull fracture, rather than the long gash in the skin above my ear that I ended up with.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    . I know someone who had a seizure and fell onto their plush suburban lawn, at very low speeds, but because they couldn’t control their body they tore up just about every muscle, tendon, and ligament in their left shoulder when they landed on it
     
    Their multiple personalities couldn't have helped, either.
  67. Adam says:
    @HA
    "I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills."

    They do not need to be sharp or pointed to be lethal. Ever whack your head into a weight rack? I could easily picture someone doing that and not getting up afterwards.

    " There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding,..."

    In the gyms I've been to, treadmills are usually lumped together in order to accommodate the post-workday rush. In the hotels I've visited, gyms are often out-of-the-way places renovated from basements and the like, with posts and radiators and a/c units conspicuously and inconveniently present. The notion that every treadmill has a large open space behind it is fantasy.

    "Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding....The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible."

    The only surefire direction in which people fall is downward, and this was no exception. He may well have fallen headfirst, then gotten up and staggered around shouting "ouch" before tripping and falling backwards onto something. Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways. Freak accidents are rare -- indeed, freakishly so, if you prefer the tautology -- but they do happen.

    I'm not saying there was no foul play. Proving a negative is difficult. But determining that he died from an accident seems far more believable than your dismissals.

    I’m afraid I may have forgotten how to walk after reading this sentence:

    “Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways.”

    At any rate, I’m afraid to try. Someone please call the paramedics.

    More seriously, this is a great post. What sort of odds would you have to give a scenario like this to make speculating — while acknowledging that it’s a speculation — worthwhile? I’d say this story easily passes that threshold — whatever it is. So long as you lay your facts out and don’t insist on more certainty than they can support, what’s the downside?

    • Replies: @HA
    "I’m afraid I may have forgotten how to walk after reading this sentence..."

    Admittedly, I did lay it on thick, but if you really want a fright and you're out of horror films, check out Bill Bryson's book At Home: A History of Private Life and the chapter on the historical development of stairs. (I know that a history of stairs doesn't sound like much of a page turner, but Bryson is a skilled writer, and I recommend that book to anyone who enjoys history of any kind.)


    Bill Bryson in his fascinating book, At Home, has a lot to say about stairs.
    For instance, would you have guessed that falls on stairs are the second most common cause of accidental death, after car accidents? It has been calculated, according to Bryson, that you are likely to miss a step once in every 2,222 occasions you use stairs. Whether or not your misstep results in a fall and whether or not that fall turns out to be fatal depends on a number of factors, especially your age. Going down is more dangerous than going up, and as many as one-third of all stair accidents occur on the first or last step.
     
    (As someone who has done a fair amount of stair-climbing in the shabbier sections of Europe, I'm amazed at how many stairwells I've encountered where some slipshod builder decided that the height of the last step of a run of stairs would have to be odd-sized relative to that of the others because he didn't think far enough ahead, but I digress.) Anyway, I'm guessing treadmills cause far more deaths than stairs, on a per-mile-traversed basis. Add in modern distractions like smartphones and overhead TV's, and Steve's characterization is not too far off, especially when they are used alone.

    https://hintsandechoes.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/death-on-the-staircase-phebes-fatal-fall/

  68. @slumber_j
    Further to Steve Sailer's point about social media titans, from the NY Post:

    Sheryl Sandberg has not made a public statement or commented about her husband’s death. The family is expected to hold an invitation-only celebration of Goldberg’s life on Tuesday at Stanford Memorial Auditorium in California.

    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.

    Mourners have also been urged to not take pictures or make social-media posts related to the event “out of respect for the family.”
     
    http://nypost.com/2015/05/04/sheryl-sandbergs-husband-died-exercising-in-mexico/

    Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.

    Goldberg deems his “lifelong hatred of ties” should survive his death. Seems petty. More “celebrate diversity, so long as we all think alike” nonsense.

  69. Somewhat associated:

    Billionaire Howard Hughes was starved to death by his staff in a resort hotel on the Pacific Coast of Mexico. His inner circle also attempted a fishy cover up, so none of the reported facts surrounding his death add up:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Hughes#Death

  70. Everything you say here makes a lot of sense Steve, but there’s one detail you missed: the quick departure from Mexico could have had something to do with the Jewish custom that you should bury the dead within 24 hours. (Unless the Sabbath intervenes, and indeed that’s a factor here as he died Friday afternoon, but they’d still want to be back by Sunday morning.)

    Or, Jewish tradition or not, I think anyone else would also declare the vacation over with, after an incident like that.

  71. @Mr. Anon
    Sheryl Sandberg is a scold and a busy-body. She is also, as it appears, a bit of a hypocrite - in that her fortune is based on Facebook, an internet platform which encourages its members to broadcast their lives on the internet. That is not incidental to Facebook's business. It IS Facebook's business. If you are on Facebook, then YOU are their product - they sell information about you to marketers and data-miners.

    Wealthy, powerful people who very publicly tell other people how they should live end up with the public scrutiny they deserve.

    You have to have some sympathy for the fact that her husband just died decades before his time.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "Blake White says:

    @Mr. Anon

    You have to have some sympathy for the fact that her husband just died decades before his time."

    Well, actually, no I don't have to. Whether I do or not is my business. Not that my sympathy would matter; Ms. Sandberg is almost certainly not reading iSteve to either take comfort in sympathy expressed here, or be offended by its lack.

    And I'm pretty certain that internet billionaires don't ever stop to feel sympathy for - for example - the people whose livelihoods they flush down the toilet when they bring in H1-B workers. They don't feel sympathy for the estrangement people come to feel for their own homelands, when those places are flooded with immigrants. They don't feel sympathy for people whose culture is being undermined by those same internet-moguls.

    So - on the whole - no, I don't feel any sympathy for the plutocrats who are wrecking western civilization. I take no joy in their personal misfortunes (most of them anyway). Neither am I especially going to care.
  72. @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her “lean in” concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    I can’t emphasize how much I agree with what you just wrote. I’m in my 30′s and recently got married. My own lovely wife can’t stop quoting Sandberg’s book.

  73. It would be interesting to know if there’s security cam footage from the resort, or more specifically, from the gym.

    If it was a cartel terrorist attack, the resort would certainly have a motive to cover up what had happened.

  74. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Looking at what’s being written about this couple it seems they were on quite an ego trip. They were full of self-praise and held themselves up as being the ideal feminist couple others should aspire to be.
    Circumstances are strange. Sometimes guys turn up dead unexpectedly because they hired prostitutes, male or female, and there was more on the agenda than they thought.

  75. @Jeff W.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.
     
    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill's motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort's gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve's astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P's comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

    Steve’s spidey senses are tingling – I will always respect the man’s spidey sense. I would say he published this not because he felt he was in ANY way right but because his Spidey senses required further honing from his commentariat. Probably a dead-end and going no where (he knows this) but let the man work dammit!

    Totally unrelated, but Sheryl Sandeberg’s first husband seems an interesting case: Very scant information on him. Not mentioned by name on her meticulously glowing and self-serving Wikipedia page. The feminist icon married the rich businessman for oooh just about enough time to consummate it back when she was doing her MBA.

    Did the feminist icon who is no doubt a clever gal also use her womanly woman-ness for a helping hand? Is “Lean-in” coded language for “Show some cleavage ladies”?

    • Replies: @Seneca
    "Did the feminist icon who is no doubt a clever gal also use her womanly woman-ness for a helping hand? Is “Lean-in” coded language for “Show some cleavage ladies”?"

    When I first heard the expression that is what I wondered too. I mean have you ever tried to negotiate something with an attractive, busty, business woman wearing slightly proactive summer business attire who was "leaning in"? I have. It can be very distracting and probably gives the lady a competitive advantage (and some ladies know this).

    I think her using the expression "Lean In" for her book title, as an expression that suggests that women need to be more assertive in the work place, was a slightly cheeky, provocative, double entendre. She may have thought it was cutesy I suppose.

  76. @WowJustWow
    Not well said. I'm very concerned that you're diluting the meaning of the term "concern troll". A concern troll is a guy who's very concerned about racism in places like Ferguson and thinks towns like that need to import more of the black underclass from his own gentrifying city with Section 8 vouchers so that those benighted Fergusonians can finally learn the virtue of tolerance. It's too valuable a phrase to waste on a comment like this with no conceivable agenda.

    (Unless you think that charlie is a member of a Mexican drug cartel or tourism board.)

    A “concern troll” is anyone who disingenuously posts comments or attacks you under the guise of “constructive criticism”, or showing “concern” for your reputation, success, future development, etc. It has nothing, per se, specifically to do with racism.

  77. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If he indeed was murdered by the cartel while he was on the treadmill, it would be quite bizarre unless he was specifically on a hit list or something and targeted. Otherwise it would mean that the cartel members went into the nice resort hotel, through the lobby, and into the hotel gym just to kill one guy. I would imagine if they wanted to commit terrorism as a display of force, they would have gone in guns blazing and shot up the lobby of the resort hotel or something.

  78. I have to wonder too if Dave Goldberg was accidentally hit by a stray bullet fired some distance away by someone involved in all the other violence? Stray bullets do have to come to a stop somewhere.

  79. @The most deplorable one
    While that might be interesting, it is more interesting what is and has happened with respect to Baltimore.

    Seems the knife might have been illegal under the appropriate law:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/05/it-begins-the-knife-baltimore-prosecutor-mosby-said-wasnt-illegal-is-actually-illegal/#more-100424

    Seems also that Baltimore has already received some $1.8B in stuimulus money under Obama and the Democrats, so his call for mo money seems a bit disingenuous:

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/05/baltimore-city-received-1-8-billion-in-federal-stimulus-money/

    Sundance, this plug is ridiculous even by your standards.

    Steve, this post is cheap clickbait containing nothing but wild speculation more fitting of the aforementioned Conservative Treehouse than of a serious journalist. You’re better than this.

  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    I had never heard of Goldberg before, but I did recognize Sandberg’s face from the media, though I didn’t know her name was Sandberg. I knew it was “something-berg”, but didn’t know if it was Goldberg, Sandberg, or Zuckerberg until now. I had heard Mark Zuckerberg’s sister worked at Facebook.

  81. @rod1963
    Steve is onto to something, Goldberg could have been a easy target of opportunity, rub out a el hefe in a exclusive resort to send a message that all are fair game for the cartels. And it would explain why his wife ran off like a scalded cat - she was probably informed the cartels did it or were nearby.

    I don’t think the cartel theory is very plausible unless he died under different circumstances e.g. he was outside somewhere or at a restaurant that the cartel shot up. If he was indeed murdered while on the treadmill, then I think it’s unlikely it was cartel related.

  82. But you are also the COO of Facebook and you do know your boss Mark wouldn’t be happy with you making unprovable accusations against a country of 120 million potential customers.

    There seems to be a near blackout in this country on news from south of the border. The National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers used to put out a newsletter that translated crime news from the Latino nations that supply so many of our population replacements. It was positively harrowing, comparable to news of the depredations of ISIS. But obviously it’s not as important as one Israeli soldier getting hit with a rock thrown by a Palestinian. (https://m3report.wordpress.com/)

    Mark Zuckerberg and his ilk want as many of those Latinos here as possible, so we have to keep a lid on information.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    Zuckerberg is more about getting the Desi HB1 immigrants whom he can pay half the going rate, forcing our nerds back into Cheeto scented mothers' basements everywhere. Though I'd assume that he doesn't oppose the other sort, who are needed to pave/frame/drywall and pick grapes and sundry vegetables to fill Silicon Valley's cornu copia.
    , @J.Ross
    Carlos Slim has a talon in the NYT, but there are stupider reasons. The LA Times (technically owned by Mormons, leading to many great jokes about certain cults that refer to outsiders as Gentiles controlling the media) has a nonsensical policy of shying away from controversy in general. I don't have the language in front of me, but in a business school class a professor read a policy statement to the effect that, if they get a letter over it, their advertisers have been spooked enough.
  83. Casey says:

    “But he was so damn rich that he didn’t have to pant in the presence of even other moderately rich people, he could afford his own private gym where he could bleed to death alone. ”

    Funny that no one mentioned the thing that has been jumping out most as a red flag to me – how odd it is for a man vacationing with his young family (a billionaire family undoubtedly with other helpers such as nannies in tow) is completely unaccounted for for three hours, particularly the hours of 4-7 pm, the hours before dinner when coordination of plans are typically made. Even the language “he left his room about 4-4:30 pm” suggests he was alone and not in communication with anyone even longer than 3 hrs.

    I’ve worked as a nanny to the rich even traveling to resorts with them, and the combination of father to a young family and extreme wealth (not to mention extreme tech savviness) makes it inconceivable that no one even tried to send him a text much sooner. How is it possible that a family man traveling with an entourage went to the gym at 4pm and no one thought to even wonder what happened to him until 7?

    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I agree, that's one of the circumstances that is most weird about the whole thing.

    For example, when I mentioned the case to my wife last night -- who has no interest in the news let alone a political take on the news -- the first thing she said was, "Why wasn't his wife looking for him?"

    Again, that is why this case sounds fishy to ordinary people. It also sounds strange to my adult children.
  84. Wow, I can’t believe anyone still goes to Mexico! Nowadays, when people want to see Mexico they just go to the bad side of town that blacks avoid. Aside from the drug cartels and dirty cops what can you find in Mexico you can’t get better in Vegas or Colorado?

  85. I found it more interesting to discover that the Mexican Cartels specifically avoided expanding to Baltimore and Philadelphia due to the large black population in these cities. Helps explain why my hometown (Philadelphia) has so few hispanics and such a high crime rate.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/opinion/sunday/serving-all-your-heroin-needs.html

    an interesting article in the NY Times which details how the Mexican cartels have expanded the reach of heroin to small towns and cities across the US with thousands of illegal immigrants from Jalisco doing home delivery (compared it to Dominoes) but they avoid selling to black customers. May explain why the current heroin epidemic mostly effects whites.

  86. @Anonymous
    A grown man went to the gym at a luxurious Four Seasons resort at 4pm and is discovered by his own brother almost 3 hours later alive but in a pool of his own blood with a 1.18 inch gash to the skull. State officials and the general manager of the resort giving conflicting statements about at what resort the fatal fall even occurred. Pretty classic scenario we have here.

    The 3 hours is the unbelievable part.
    I’ve used many gyms at upscale hotels and resorts over the years.
    Besides the fact that there is usually an attendant (handing out towels, checking ID, etc.)
    the foot traffic of other guests is always such that you couldn’t have an unresponsive bleeding person go un-noticed for an hour, let alone three.

  87. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @OsRazor
    "Instead of expending money and effort in places like Iraq and Afghanistan we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force. We drove on Mexico City before and should have done so again, giving them a new system as we did with Germany and Japan."

    A lot of good it would have done too. Probably as successful as what we see in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mexico will be Mexico because Mexico is full of Mexicans. A light-skinned elite ever trying to keep brown people away (or better in the US). When there's such a distance between those running the show and the rest a vacuum of civility opens up to all sorts of awful.

    Magically replace all the Mexicans with Germans and/or Japanese and your "new system" might work.

    Well the Germans have a recent history of committing genocide against non-Germans such as the Herero genocide and the Holocaust. That suggests some shortcomings in civility, to say the least. So perhaps just as the Mexicans should be dealt with appropriately on account of their incivility, the Germans as well should be kept down and under control on account of their apparently endemic incivility.

  88. @Bill P

    Steve, it’s your blog, but I don’t think the line of inquiry is helping you.

    Accidents happen. They probably could not determine whether it was the fall, head trauma, heart trouble, or a stroke that was fatal.
     
    Evidently they could:

    According to the Mexican medical report, it was head trauma and accompanying hypovolemic shock that caused Mr. Goldberg's death.

    This means he lost over 20% of his blood from a 4cm head wound, which was a severe, crushing wound that broke the skull. How you get that from falling off a treadmill beats me. That's the kind of wound you'd expect someone who got hit full force on the head with rebar to have. Or perhaps hit with a dumbbell... The skull is pretty hard. Typically, if you fall and hit your head, it bounces, giving you a concussion. This can be deadly, but it doesn't involve a "pool of blood" or open skull fracture. The kinds of impacts that create those wounds are seen in auto and occasionally bicycle accidents, which involve considerably more velocity and force than a fall off a treadmill, which operates at a maximum speed of only 10mph, and in Goldberg's case probably more like four or five.

    The details here, the reticence about revealing the cause of death, the sudden departure of the family and the crazy events in Puerto Vallarta on May 1 raise a lot of questions about Goldberg's death.

    He is also a private person — 99.995% of Americans don’t give a FF who the husband of the COO of facebook is.
     
    No, he is not a "private person." Sheryl Sandberg has used her family as the model for the contemporary American woman, pushing her "lean in" concept all over the country. She has sponsored events for girls and served as the public female face of Facebook. She calls herself a feminist. She actively pushes her ideals on the rest of us. Goldberg was a part of that package. He was no recluse, but rather very much a part of the debate about the role of the contemporary husband and wife.

    Whenever public figures seem to be hiding something, it's worth following up on it to see why.

    Maybe he did die in an accident. Maybe the treadmill really did fling him headfirst into some corner at a high velocity, breaking his skull. If that's the case, shouldn't we know how on earth treadmills can do that so as to prevent more of these accidents?

    And if he was murdered, shouldn't that inform Americans' decisions when it comes to travel destinations? Shouldn't it give us more reason to monitor our border for potential criminal fugitives from Mexico?

    Shame there won’t be a proper wake, as he’ll be missing the opportunity to be baptized in the cratur and rise from the dead.

  89. @Art Deco
    we should have effected regime change in Mexico, forcing them to reform their corrupt political system by force.

    --

    There are not in Mexico (nor in any other Latin American country bar Cuba) any pustules to excise by a military operation. The country's shortcomings can only be addressed through patient institution-building.

    Mexico has been around longer than the United States has, up until 1800, it was wealthier.

    The problem isn’t a lack of institutions, it’s the reality of race and culture.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The problem isn’t a lack of institutions, it’s the reality of race and culture.
    --
    Sayeth the man unawares of how many reversals of fortune there have been over the last two millennia between the various civilizations.
  90. @Harry Baldwin
    But you are also the COO of Facebook and you do know your boss Mark wouldn’t be happy with you making unprovable accusations against a country of 120 million potential customers.

    There seems to be a near blackout in this country on news from south of the border. The National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers used to put out a newsletter that translated crime news from the Latino nations that supply so many of our population replacements. It was positively harrowing, comparable to news of the depredations of ISIS. But obviously it's not as important as one Israeli soldier getting hit with a rock thrown by a Palestinian. (https://m3report.wordpress.com/)

    Mark Zuckerberg and his ilk want as many of those Latinos here as possible, so we have to keep a lid on information.

    Zuckerberg is more about getting the Desi HB1 immigrants whom he can pay half the going rate, forcing our nerds back into Cheeto scented mothers’ basements everywhere. Though I’d assume that he doesn’t oppose the other sort, who are needed to pave/frame/drywall and pick grapes and sundry vegetables to fill Silicon Valley’s cornu copia.

  91. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "But why did the Cartel terrorists hide the body in the gym next to the treadmill for his brother to find?"

    Perhaps that's simply the room where the murder took place, and the body was simply left to lie where it fell?

    I concur – I don’t think the narcoterrorist cartels fear the authorities, whom they’ve either bought or intimidated.

    Perhaps it was a kidnapping for ransom attempt that went bad when Goldberg resisted.

    But either way and regardless of whether this was truly an accident, someone whose healthy net worth is listed in her wikipedia profile has proved herself to be less than the smartest woman “leaning in” by traveling to a 3d world gangster state. I’m certain there were any number of usual precautions, but the corruption is just too deep and pervasive to eliminate the possibility that someone on the inside would be working them.

  92. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff W.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.
     
    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill's motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort's gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve's astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P's comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

    You don’t need sharp, pointed objects to get cut if here’s sufficient force. That’s why boxers get cut all the time by blunt leather gloves.

    Also, according to the “Do You Speak American?” documentary on American dialects, the Scotch-Irish dialect in the US is characterized by indirect speech and expression.

  93. @Jeff W.

    Cagney knocks someone into the uncapped feeder valve of a radiator and they sustain a fatal wound to the back of the skull.
     
    I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills. I am sure that there were no uncapped valves on radiators nearby.

    There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding, because gym operators know that people fall off treadmills quite often and they want to cushion the impact. Because of the treadmill's motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding. In an expensive resort's gym, I would expect to see extra space and extra padding.

    The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible. The flimsiness of this story is evidence of the panicked state of the people who concocted it.

    I would also like to salute Steve's astuteness in awarding the orange-colored border to Bill P's comment. Steve has been using the orange border infrequently, and I think of it as being a tribute to my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.

    “my people, the Scots-Irish, who are known for a pithy and direct mode of expression.” Fuck off.

  94. The main lesson is that it’s absurd to spend time in the gym when you can be out enjoying the open air on a golf course.

    Though you’d have to abandon the egregious American habit of spending most of your golf course time sitting on your arse.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    "Though you’d have to abandon the egregious American habit of spending most of your golf course time sitting on your arse."


    MMM, seems that the average Briton could do with a bit more exercise, dear fellow:


    In February 2012, experts predicted that by the year 2020 one third of the United Kingdom could be obese [.....]

    Adult obesity rates have almost quadrupled in the last 25 years, with 23.1% of British people obese as of 2012.[5][6] The Midlands is the United Kingdom's most overweight area, with Tamworth in Staffordshire being the fattest town with a 30.7% obesity rate.[7]
     

  95. David says:
    @Retired
    If the the narcos wanted to kill Goldberg they wouldn't have set it up look like an accident. Cui Bono? They are organized crime, not terrorists who have read a lot of Agatha Christie. You guys need to take your tin hats off.

    The idea is that the reports of the death have been scripted to conceal its actual nature, not that the murderers, if there were any, were trying to conceal their motive. Steve doesn’t reason why, he just presents some curious circumstances. But you’re right. If I were those narcos, I ‘d claim the murder as my own act. Are you like a war-time consigliere?

  96. @Tim Howells
    Sounds like Harry Reid, who turned up on New Year's Day at a Las Vegas emergency room with severe head injuries due to a run-in with his exercise equipment. Maybe the Singularity is here, and the robot revolution has begun.

    According to the “classy resort”, Goldberg didn’t die there and was not a registered guest.

    I say suicide or murder. Likely the former because authorities there say an investigation/autopsy will not be done (standard for criminal/foul play and accidental).

    Mexico resort questions tech CEO David Goldberg accident report

  97. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Harry Baldwin
    But you are also the COO of Facebook and you do know your boss Mark wouldn’t be happy with you making unprovable accusations against a country of 120 million potential customers.

    There seems to be a near blackout in this country on news from south of the border. The National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers used to put out a newsletter that translated crime news from the Latino nations that supply so many of our population replacements. It was positively harrowing, comparable to news of the depredations of ISIS. But obviously it's not as important as one Israeli soldier getting hit with a rock thrown by a Palestinian. (https://m3report.wordpress.com/)

    Mark Zuckerberg and his ilk want as many of those Latinos here as possible, so we have to keep a lid on information.

    Carlos Slim has a talon in the NYT, but there are stupider reasons. The LA Times (technically owned by Mormons, leading to many great jokes about certain cults that refer to outsiders as Gentiles controlling the media) has a nonsensical policy of shying away from controversy in general. I don’t have the language in front of me, but in a business school class a professor read a policy statement to the effect that, if they get a letter over it, their advertisers have been spooked enough.

  98. It’s pretty easy to imagine someone like this guy reading something on his smartphone, not paying attention to where he is treading, and then taking a nasty spill.

    It’s also pretty easy to imagine that hotel gyms in Mexico do not have the feng shui of lawsuit avoidance that their American counterparts have. Who knows what might have been next to that treadmill, maybe a whole rack of dumbbells.

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?

    • Replies: @Lugash
    Mr. Mrs. Sandberg was probably on his phone, being CEO. It's easier to do this on a treadmill than on the beach, and could account for falling off of the treadmill.

    Still, the story is strange.
    , @Anonymous
    Jogging on the beach is a major workout, especially for a fatbody. The loose sand demands much more energy and effort for each stride. I'd imagine he'd go for walks on the beach, but running on it was probably too much.
    , @Dave Pinsen

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?
     
    You can quantify speed and incline on a treadmill. A lot of Silicon Valley types are into quantifying everything, I think. What gets measured gets managed and all that.
  99. @Thrasymachus
    The rich and powerful suffer and die just like the rest of us. Mr. Goldberg was both, and relished speaking power to truth. It didn't save him from an ugly and unfortunate death.

    The things Mr. Goldberg apparently worshipped- wealth, power, and the peculiar combination expressed in upper-class feminism- are brief, fleeting illusions. One minute you're enjoying a Four Seasons resort, the next the bag of meat, blood, pus and tears we call our body begins its return to its constituent elements.

    It may seem hard to pity these people, but they live on the edge of the abyss, and they know it. The less fortunate have their small comforts, of religion or a better mortal existence, for themselves or their children. Things may not be good now, but they may get better. For the rich things cannot get better, they enjoy everything that can possibly be enjoyed, and they quickly tire of the pleasure. But to indulge in such peasant comforts as belief in God or an afterlife would be gauche, so they double down on the hedonism and the social justice activism.

    We know not the day nor the hour.

    Except Mr. Goldberg was not toos. He was like Gatsby.

    toos never dies. They will laugh at Goldberg’s death.

  100. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    The great irony of “I turned into a bad Jew because my granddaddy wasn’t allowed into Wasp golf club” excuse:

    It sounds like Hitler’s shtick about how some Jewish-dominated art academy didn’t admit him.

    Belfort and Hitler, you guys have something in common.

  101. I have to admit I was not thrilled by this story when I read it — I thought, man, the guy’s dead, isn’t this speculation a bit much, especially so soon?

    However, here’s a real world update that nobody mentioned above yet. The Four Seasons hotel issued an official statement saying Goldberg was not a guest and was not at their hotel. [Sorry if this is a repeat because others beat me to this already but their comments haven't been approved.]

    I guess something really is up, then, isn’t it?

    http://press.fourseasons.com/puntamita/hotel-news/2015/media-statement/

    “May 5, 2015, Punta Mita, México

    We are deeply saddened by the news of the death of David Goldberg. Our sympathy goes to his family and friends who have suffered this tragic loss.

    Four Seasons would like to clarify that, contrary to some media reports, the tragedy did not take place at Four Seasons Resort Punta Mita. Mr. Goldberg was not a registered guest at our resort, villas or residences.

    As the tragedy did not take place on our property, nor was Mr. Goldberg a guest, we are not in a position to comment further. Again, our condolences to Mr. Goldberg’s family and friends. Our thoughts are with them at this difficult time.”

    Here’s an article about this:

    http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/david-goldberg-was-not-a-guest-and-did-not-fatally-fall-here-hotel/

  102. A wealthy man, registered at a hotel mid-day under an assumed name is there for a liason. Biff, Brad or Natasha were taking in-calls at he hotel. Except they killed him. There are a milion reasons why Sandberg, the Four Seasons and GovMex would want to kill the story.

  103. […] Sailer points out that there were 57 cartel murders in the region of Mexico the day David Goldberg died, ….  Sailer links to a Wall Street Journal article describing widespread carnage on the day of […]

  104. @Ron Unz
    Well, my only knowledge of these events comes from reading my regular newspapers and a few of Steve's posts, but the whole story does seem pretty suspicious and odd to me...

    Yes. I assumed it was a heart attack when I read the early obituaries that didn’t include a cause of death. An overweight 47-year-old type-A man who dies working out by any cause other than heart attack — or maybe stroke — is highly unusual: http://worldcrass.com/2015/05/05/steve-sailer-notes-suspicious-circumstances-in-death-of-dave-goldberg/ .

  105. @Casey
    "But he was so damn rich that he didn’t have to pant in the presence of even other moderately rich people, he could afford his own private gym where he could bleed to death alone. "

    Funny that no one mentioned the thing that has been jumping out most as a red flag to me - how odd it is for a man vacationing with his young family (a billionaire family undoubtedly with other helpers such as nannies in tow) is completely unaccounted for for three hours, particularly the hours of 4-7 pm, the hours before dinner when coordination of plans are typically made. Even the language "he left his room about 4-4:30 pm" suggests he was alone and not in communication with anyone even longer than 3 hrs.

    I've worked as a nanny to the rich even traveling to resorts with them, and the combination of father to a young family and extreme wealth (not to mention extreme tech savviness) makes it inconceivable that no one even tried to send him a text much sooner. How is it possible that a family man traveling with an entourage went to the gym at 4pm and no one thought to even wonder what happened to him until 7?

    I agree, that’s one of the circumstances that is most weird about the whole thing.

    For example, when I mentioned the case to my wife last night — who has no interest in the news let alone a political take on the news — the first thing she said was, “Why wasn’t his wife looking for him?”

    Again, that is why this case sounds fishy to ordinary people. It also sounds strange to my adult children.

  106. I follow PV realty as a hobby. I compare it to other spots. It is a unique spot in the world for architecture. Here check out some of these houses for sale.

    http://www.lapuntarealty.com/

    This is a specialty firm that concentrates on where the best places are located, Punta Mita. The area is located on the north short of the Bay of Banderas.

    The old Burton/Taylor days that put the place on the map was located in Puerto Vallarta proper and in the Conchas Chinas area just south of the town. The road is narrow and quite winding out to this place Mismaloya where the road then turns south and travels inland to Barre de Navidad. I like this area best. It is sort of arty and a lot of the houses have a real style to them, LA Gay meets Mexico.

    There is a big gay thing in PV with lots of gay clubs, even beaches. And these older villas in Conchas Chinas have been renovated by faggots and offer some incredible deals for the price. They aren’t cheap mind you, 2-5 million will get you a big Mexican villa up on a sloping hillside that looks like a cross between a Hollywood Hills place and a Hacienda, with higher prices for sea coast frontage. But all have pools and great vistas.

    But the serious stuff is what this La Punta Realty offers in Punta Mita. This place is about an hour from PV proper and most of the newer stuff, the hotels etc, are north of PV. Punta Mita is actually in another state, Nayarit. It is an enclosed, high security, gated enclave of high end homes, with currently a 4 Seasons resort that has tennis and a great golf course. Punta Mita is surrounded on 3 sides by ocean with a single controlled entry point. There is a St Regis under development. It would be harder to find a more secure, more controlled spot in Mexico.

    Just outside the gates of the resort is the run down little town of Punta Mita, and before the town there are two more high dollar developments, El Banco and El Rancho were the houses run from 5 million to 20 million. There are some wet dream haciendas located there. Most are rented out for events like weddings for 2500 to 5000 per day.

    The area is well protected and usually quite immune to what might be happening in other parts of Jalisco. US travel warnings speak against going inland or heading north out PV but even then, issues are rare, the random car jacking.

    But for a couple of years when the newspapers were full of stories about horrible shit going on in Mexico, that real estate market was frozen. Nobody could sell anything. And prices dropped and still nothing sold. Then within the past couple of years, stuff started moving. Especially the stuff inside the Punta Mita resort. Four Seasons built some villas and there were two differents sorts of houses, some golf course houses El Lago Estates, and beachfront La Punta estates.

    And then things started moving well down in other parts of PV. Lots of really cool stuff that had sat dormant for years just went in between my researches in the area.

    Now….

    If I were some extra-legal kingpin and the Government of Jalisco wanted to play games with me, to go inside Punta Mita by going into the little town and finding a person that worked inside the resort and giving him a Plumo o Plata alternative (Lead or Silver) that he kill a vacation fat cat and show that even Punta Mita wasn’t safe from the kingpin and send shivers back through the pipeline. A lot of money was lost this weekend, and if not lost, it sets the place back at least six months in people forgetting the past few years.

    Of course the idea is far fetched, knowing what we know, and how protected Punta Mita is. But it was weird with the timing with the other violence and then how slow the details came out.

    • Replies: @FF
    Mark Minter: I stopped reading your interesting comment when you used the word "faggots" in paragraph 4.
    It makes everything you have to say less credible.
  107. @Some Guy
    It's pretty easy to imagine someone like this guy reading something on his smartphone, not paying attention to where he is treading, and then taking a nasty spill.

    It's also pretty easy to imagine that hotel gyms in Mexico do not have the feng shui of lawsuit avoidance that their American counterparts have. Who knows what might have been next to that treadmill, maybe a whole rack of dumbbells.

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?

    Mr. Mrs. Sandberg was probably on his phone, being CEO. It’s easier to do this on a treadmill than on the beach, and could account for falling off of the treadmill.

    Still, the story is strange.

  108. @HA
    "I have been to quite a few gyms and I have never seen sharp, pointed metal objects near the treadmills."

    They do not need to be sharp or pointed to be lethal. Ever whack your head into a weight rack? I could easily picture someone doing that and not getting up afterwards.

    " There is usually a large open space behind a treadmill, often covered with rubber-like padding,..."

    In the gyms I've been to, treadmills are usually lumped together in order to accommodate the post-workday rush. In the hotels I've visited, gyms are often out-of-the-way places renovated from basements and the like, with posts and radiators and a/c units conspicuously and inconveniently present. The notion that every treadmill has a large open space behind it is fantasy.

    "Because of the treadmill’s motion, people fall off the treadmill in one direction only, and then they land on the padding....The whole deep-headwound-from-falling-off-a-treadmill story is not credible."

    The only surefire direction in which people fall is downward, and this was no exception. He may well have fallen headfirst, then gotten up and staggered around shouting "ouch" before tripping and falling backwards onto something. Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways. Freak accidents are rare -- indeed, freakishly so, if you prefer the tautology -- but they do happen.

    I'm not saying there was no foul play. Proving a negative is difficult. But determining that he died from an accident seems far more believable than your dismissals.

    You find these posts and radiators in gyms that the uber-rich stay at? Maybe you stay at some low-rent hotels, but at 5 star hotels they usually put a modicum of thought into the facilities. Googling “hotel gym treadmill” turns up about half and half gyms where treadmills are well placed, and gyms where they have a wall or another piece of gym equipment behind the treadmill. So perhaps it is possible that he cracked his head open on some poorly placed object behind the treadmill, but just as possible that the gym was well designed and attended to.

    The richer and more powerful someone is, the more numerous, the better resourced and the more intelligent their enemies are, as a rule. Which is a function of the circles they move in, their profile, and the more others stand to profit from their death. Often they don’t even realize that some of those they think of as their friends and acquaintances are actually their enemies. (This can also apply to their family members.) When a murder is planned, it is better in general for those who plan it that there is not a full-blown homicide investigation, so it is often staged to look like something other than a homicide.

    Needless to say, this applies to billionaires especially, and high profile billionaires even more so. High intelligence and a touch of paranoia are very useful traits for wealthy people for this reason. Thrust someone without those traits into a position of extreme wealth and it is a situation for which they are not well adapted. Anna Nicole Smith comes to mind.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Johnny Carson drove himself to work and shlepped about the beach at Malibu all by his lonesome. Jacqueline Onassis traipsed around Manhattan without incident in spite of the papparazzi.
  109. @Maj. Kong
    Mexico has been around longer than the United States has, up until 1800, it was wealthier.

    The problem isn't a lack of institutions, it's the reality of race and culture.

    The problem isn’t a lack of institutions, it’s the reality of race and culture.

    Sayeth the man unawares of how many reversals of fortune there have been over the last two millennia between the various civilizations.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    It is interesting. I'm reading that book about Vasco da Gama I mentioned in a previous thread, and the first part of it basically summarizes medieval history from the beginning of Islam. Kind of hard to believe now that Baghdad was one of the world's intellectual hubs a thousand years ago.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    You really think it's just a matter of "institutions?" What generates institutions?
  110. The U.S. State Department updated its Mexico travel warning today:

    http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/mexico-travel-warning.html

    Of course the recent event explored here is not the only factor, but suspicions that it wasn’t simply an accident could have prompted this update.

  111. @Some Guy
    It's pretty easy to imagine someone like this guy reading something on his smartphone, not paying attention to where he is treading, and then taking a nasty spill.

    It's also pretty easy to imagine that hotel gyms in Mexico do not have the feng shui of lawsuit avoidance that their American counterparts have. Who knows what might have been next to that treadmill, maybe a whole rack of dumbbells.

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?

    Jogging on the beach is a major workout, especially for a fatbody. The loose sand demands much more energy and effort for each stride. I’d imagine he’d go for walks on the beach, but running on it was probably too much.

  112. Billy Mays died in a particularly random accident. These sorts of things happen all the time, but we rarely hear about them unless the people involved are already media presences.

    Sure, there are more possible motives for this man’s death than some random person’s, but it’s not a good idea to speculate randomly. It may truly have been a weird accident.

    As for the argument that many of the people involved are behaving peculiarly, I think you’re underestimating how incoherent people’s responses to these situations often are.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Mays used cocaine and they think it contributed to his heart attack:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/cocaine-killed-tv-pitchman-billy-mays-autopsy-finds-article-1.397825

    Seth Roberts was a popular health/diet blogger who collapsed and died a few years ago after hiking.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    Why would you make an unsourced comment like that when it would only take seconds to verify? Mays died from hypertensive heart disease, possibly aggravated by drug use.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mays#Death
  113. If the Four Seasons resort say Mr. Greenberg did not die in their gym maybe the term “falling off a treadmill” is not meant to be taken literally? Maybe it’s a euphemism or slang for something else? I don’t think it is but may I suggest that as a second line of defence if this current story falls through?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I think it's an argument over who is liable for the piece of property where they were staying, which was co-located with the large hotel, but not necessarily identical to it in terms of who is legally liable for a fatal accident or negligent breach of security,
  114. Ask and you shall receive:

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/treadmill-may-be-riskiest-machine-but-injuries-from-it-still-rare/

    There were just 30 reported deaths related to use of treadmills from 2003 to 2012, according to the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission, an average of about three a year, far fewer than the number of people who were struck by lightning and died.

    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Not clear from my read whether this statistic includes those who die from a stroke or heart attack while using a treadmill.
  115. @candid_observer
    Ask and you shall receive:

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/treadmill-may-be-riskiest-machine-but-injuries-from-it-still-rare/

    There were just 30 reported deaths related to use of treadmills from 2003 to 2012, according to the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission, an average of about three a year, far fewer than the number of people who were struck by lightning and died.
     

    Not clear from my read whether this statistic includes those who die from a stroke or heart attack while using a treadmill.

  116. @Melendwyr
    Billy Mays died in a particularly random accident. These sorts of things happen all the time, but we rarely hear about them unless the people involved are already media presences.

    Sure, there are more possible motives for this man's death than some random person's, but it's not a good idea to speculate randomly. It may truly have been a weird accident.

    As for the argument that many of the people involved are behaving peculiarly, I think you're underestimating how incoherent people's responses to these situations often are.

    Mays used cocaine and they think it contributed to his heart attack:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/cocaine-killed-tv-pitchman-billy-mays-autopsy-finds-article-1.397825

    Seth Roberts was a popular health/diet blogger who collapsed and died a few years ago after hiking.

  117. @Melendwyr
    Billy Mays died in a particularly random accident. These sorts of things happen all the time, but we rarely hear about them unless the people involved are already media presences.

    Sure, there are more possible motives for this man's death than some random person's, but it's not a good idea to speculate randomly. It may truly have been a weird accident.

    As for the argument that many of the people involved are behaving peculiarly, I think you're underestimating how incoherent people's responses to these situations often are.

    Why would you make an unsourced comment like that when it would only take seconds to verify? Mays died from hypertensive heart disease, possibly aggravated by drug use.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mays#Death

  118. HA says:
    @Adam
    I'm afraid I may have forgotten how to walk after reading this sentence:

    "Bipedal locomotion is a precarious jumble of weirdly coordinated parts that risk catastrophe at most every moment, and it can malfunction in an infinite number of ways."

    At any rate, I'm afraid to try. Someone please call the paramedics.

    More seriously, this is a great post. What sort of odds would you have to give a scenario like this to make speculating -- while acknowledging that it's a speculation -- worthwhile? I'd say this story easily passes that threshold -- whatever it is. So long as you lay your facts out and don't insist on more certainty than they can support, what's the downside?

    “I’m afraid I may have forgotten how to walk after reading this sentence…”

    Admittedly, I did lay it on thick, but if you really want a fright and you’re out of horror films, check out Bill Bryson’s book At Home: A History of Private Life and the chapter on the historical development of stairs. (I know that a history of stairs doesn’t sound like much of a page turner, but Bryson is a skilled writer, and I recommend that book to anyone who enjoys history of any kind.)

    Bill Bryson in his fascinating book, At Home, has a lot to say about stairs.
    For instance, would you have guessed that falls on stairs are the second most common cause of accidental death, after car accidents? It has been calculated, according to Bryson, that you are likely to miss a step once in every 2,222 occasions you use stairs. Whether or not your misstep results in a fall and whether or not that fall turns out to be fatal depends on a number of factors, especially your age. Going down is more dangerous than going up, and as many as one-third of all stair accidents occur on the first or last step.

    (As someone who has done a fair amount of stair-climbing in the shabbier sections of Europe, I’m amazed at how many stairwells I’ve encountered where some slipshod builder decided that the height of the last step of a run of stairs would have to be odd-sized relative to that of the others because he didn’t think far enough ahead, but I digress.) Anyway, I’m guessing treadmills cause far more deaths than stairs, on a per-mile-traversed basis. Add in modern distractions like smartphones and overhead TV’s, and Steve’s characterization is not too far off, especially when they are used alone.

    https://hintsandechoes.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/death-on-the-staircase-phebes-fatal-fall/

  119. A lot of pseudonyms I haven’t seen before are popping up out of the woodwork in relation to this subject. It’s interesting.

  120. Mike says:

    It’s weird to me that the more obvious “wife did it” possibility hasn’t been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.

    No need to do it yourself either local talent could do the job. Almost impossible to get caught in that country if you have money.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    It’s weird to me that the more obvious “wife did it” possibility hasn’t been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.
     
    How many billionaires, if any, have committed murder?
    , @Anonymous
    It's not an iSteve thread until somebody blames the Jews.....
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Why weird? By all accounts, they loved each other. Apparently, everyone who knew Goldberg in Silicon Valley liked him.
  121. People keep talking about how it could very well be just a freak accident, as if calling it a freak accident suddenly makes it plausible that it happened.

    Doesn’t work that way. If an event would be a freak, that’s good evidence it didn’t happen, if there are available alternate explanations not so unlikely. And the freakier the event would be, the less likely it is to have occurred.

    If over 10 years only 30 people have died on a treadmill (or died from injuries on a treadmill), and perhaps 10 million people use a treadmill, that’s very good evidence that, for a given person, they didn’t die on a treadmill. And it is even more compelling that they didn’t do so if the exact manner of death — fracturing the skull and bleeding out — is perhaps never seen even in the 30 cases (which is what one would expect, given the many less gruesome and violent ways one might die using a treadmill–e.g., from a severe concussion or cerebral hematoma.)

  122. Penelope Trunk’s blog post titled Dave Goldberg cause of death? I think it’s suicide has received more than 500 responses.

    http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2015/05/03/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death-i-think-its-suicide/

    Many of these responses are attacks against her of the “have you no shame?” and “you heartless beast!” varieties. These negative responses look to me like an orchestrated campaign, though I could be wrong about that.

    Regardless of whether a reporter is or is not a heartless beast, the American people deserve to know if Goldberg’s death was a murder or suicide. A very thorough autopsy should be performed with multiple experts (they can afford it) examining the corpse. If Goldberg’s skull was punctured, the people need to know exactly which object it was that did the puncturing. Questions such as, “How can a man bleed to death on the floor of an expensive resort’s gym?” need to be answered.

    If it is a murder, then the murderer needs to be brought to justice. If it is a suicide, that needs to be made known. If it is an accident, the exact cause of the accident needs to be ascertained.

    It is not shameful or beastly to work to reveal important facts to the public. Those who want to shut down investigation with shaming should be ignored.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Has anybody ever killed themselves by hitting themselves on the back of the head?
  123. @dearieme
    The main lesson is that it's absurd to spend time in the gym when you can be out enjoying the open air on a golf course.

    Though you'd have to abandon the egregious American habit of spending most of your golf course time sitting on your arse.

    “Though you’d have to abandon the egregious American habit of spending most of your golf course time sitting on your arse.”

    MMM, seems that the average Briton could do with a bit more exercise, dear fellow:

    In February 2012, experts predicted that by the year 2020 one third of the United Kingdom could be obese [.....]

    Adult obesity rates have almost quadrupled in the last 25 years, with 23.1% of British people obese as of 2012.[5][6] The Midlands is the United Kingdom’s most overweight area, with Tamworth in Staffordshire being the fattest town with a 30.7% obesity rate.[7]

  124. @Thought Police
    Steve's spidey senses are tingling - I will always respect the man's spidey sense. I would say he published this not because he felt he was in ANY way right but because his Spidey senses required further honing from his commentariat. Probably a dead-end and going no where (he knows this) but let the man work dammit!

    Totally unrelated, but Sheryl Sandeberg's first husband seems an interesting case: Very scant information on him. Not mentioned by name on her meticulously glowing and self-serving Wikipedia page. The feminist icon married the rich businessman for oooh just about enough time to consummate it back when she was doing her MBA.

    Did the feminist icon who is no doubt a clever gal also use her womanly woman-ness for a helping hand? Is "Lean-in" coded language for "Show some cleavage ladies"?

    “Did the feminist icon who is no doubt a clever gal also use her womanly woman-ness for a helping hand? Is “Lean-in” coded language for “Show some cleavage ladies”?”

    When I first heard the expression that is what I wondered too. I mean have you ever tried to negotiate something with an attractive, busty, business woman wearing slightly proactive summer business attire who was “leaning in”? I have. It can be very distracting and probably gives the lady a competitive advantage (and some ladies know this).

    I think her using the expression “Lean In” for her book title, as an expression that suggests that women need to be more assertive in the work place, was a slightly cheeky, provocative, double entendre. She may have thought it was cutesy I suppose.

    • Replies: @Thought Police
    "(and some ladies know this)."

    Damn straight.

    It's interesting to see the cognitive dissonance of feminists. On one hand, they don't want to be objectified (or so they SAY) on the other they don't mind using their sexuality for personal gain.
  125. M says:

    Steve,

    Big fan here. I love how you think and I usually agree with 98% of what you write. (Excluding golf; I don’t know enough to even contemplate it, and my level of interest is in the negative level there!). However:

    In this case of -berg’s death, I just don’t understand why it seems conspiratorial to you — as you’ve been implying but not saying. Wouldn’t the overwhelmingly most likely explanation be, “he had a heart attack while on a treadmill, and banged his head on the fall?”. I haven’t even seen any fact anywhere what could imply anywhere that there’s a hint of evidence that something dirtier happened.

    I work in Silicon Valley in the tech world and it is very stressful here, and the higher-up you go, the more stressful it is: all these guys/girls work so intensely, 18 grueling hours per day, especially people like the -bergs and there’s a very legitimate fear here of heart attacks from overwork that is a constant murmur of conversation here…. this makes the heart attack scenario overwhelmingly likely to be true (with no other contradictory evidence anywhere).

    And on these top SV guys having quiet social media lives: yes, of course. As the drug dealers say and I love quoting, “don’t get high on your own supply”: to really convince the population to use your systems, you need to be as clear headed as possible. This attitude isn’t even an open secret; it’s downright open, widely known and accepted knowledge here. Classic example: Steve Jobs very publicly wouldn’t let his young children use any technology, especially not the touch-screen, the tech elites here send their kids here to the Montessori schools (that have zero technology), etc etc etc…

    -M

  126. Sheryl posts on Facebook about the passing of her husband: https://www.facebook.com/sheryl/posts/10155493238390177

  127. dearieme:“The main lesson is that it’s absurd to spend time in the gym when you can be out enjoying the open air on a golf course.

    Though you’d have to abandon the egregious American habit of spending most of your golf course time sitting on your arse.”

    MMM, seems that the average Briton could do with a bit more exercise, dear fellow:

    In February 2012, experts predicted that by the year 2020 one third of the United Kingdom could be obese [.....]

    Adult obesity rates have almost quadrupled in the last 25 years, with 23.1% of British people obese as of 2012. The Midlands is the United Kingdom’s most overweight area, with Tamworth in Staffordshire being the fattest town with a 30.7% obesity rate.

  128. OT: Haven Monahan is facing a capital murder charge in the death of a UVa student.

    Authorities have alleged that Monahan abducted Graham “with intent to defile,” indicating that police believe he intended to sexually assault Graham.

    I take it will we have a renewed discussion of the UVa rape culture.

  129. @antipater_1
    More than 30 years ago, the actor William Holden got really drunk and fell down in his apartment. In doing so he struck his head on the corner of a table. He suffered a serious head injury and bled to death. So these things can certainly happen.

    Yeah, I remember that. He was a good actor, -and- he took his money from Bridge Over The River Kwai, which I think was $1 million, as an annuity, so he had no money worries. Plus he was banging Stephanie Powers at the time. His greatest movie was The Wild Bunch. RIP

  130. @Jeff W.
    Penelope Trunk's blog post titled Dave Goldberg cause of death? I think it’s suicide has received more than 500 responses.

    http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2015/05/03/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death-i-think-its-suicide/

    Many of these responses are attacks against her of the "have you no shame?" and "you heartless beast!" varieties. These negative responses look to me like an orchestrated campaign, though I could be wrong about that.

    Regardless of whether a reporter is or is not a heartless beast, the American people deserve to know if Goldberg's death was a murder or suicide. A very thorough autopsy should be performed with multiple experts (they can afford it) examining the corpse. If Goldberg's skull was punctured, the people need to know exactly which object it was that did the puncturing. Questions such as, "How can a man bleed to death on the floor of an expensive resort's gym?" need to be answered.

    If it is a murder, then the murderer needs to be brought to justice. If it is a suicide, that needs to be made known. If it is an accident, the exact cause of the accident needs to be ascertained.

    It is not shameful or beastly to work to reveal important facts to the public. Those who want to shut down investigation with shaming should be ignored.

    Has anybody ever killed themselves by hitting themselves on the back of the head?

    • Replies: @penntothal
    Wild speculation, but: think exit wound for a self-inflicted GSW to the back of the palate.
    Exit wounds sometimes more glaringly obvious than entrance- and the location is right.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Trunk hedges herself by fudging that if it's a heart attack that also counts as suicide because heart attacks are preventable [which of course isn't true of all of them].

    She's trolling, but the media and the family have given her the space to troll by not being more forthcoming about what happened.
  131. @Cagey Beast
    If the Four Seasons resort say Mr. Greenberg did not die in their gym maybe the term "falling off a treadmill" is not meant to be taken literally? Maybe it's a euphemism or slang for something else? I don't think it is but may I suggest that as a second line of defence if this current story falls through?

    I think it’s an argument over who is liable for the piece of property where they were staying, which was co-located with the large hotel, but not necessarily identical to it in terms of who is legally liable for a fatal accident or negligent breach of security,

  132. @Mike
    It's weird to me that the more obvious "wife did it" possibility hasn't been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.

    No need to do it yourself either local talent could do the job. Almost impossible to get caught in that country if you have money.

    It’s weird to me that the more obvious “wife did it” possibility hasn’t been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.

    How many billionaires, if any, have committed murder?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A lot, on TV.

    In real life, my old boss Racehorse Haynes' client, Texas oilman Cullen Davis, would likely have been on the Forbes 400 if it had existed at the time he murdered his wife's boyfriend and his adolescent stepdaughter in the mid-1970s.

    , @5371
    [How many billionaires, if any, have committed murder?]
    More than have been convicted of it.
  133. @Steve Sailer
    Has anybody ever killed themselves by hitting themselves on the back of the head?

    Wild speculation, but: think exit wound for a self-inflicted GSW to the back of the palate.
    Exit wounds sometimes more glaringly obvious than entrance- and the location is right.

    • Replies: @Jeff W.
    That is a good point about an exit wound. The lower back of the head would be exactly where it would be.

    If you exclude statements from the -bergs and from an anonymous "prosecutor's office spokesman," it is remarkable how little we know about this case. We know that Goldberg died suddenly and unexpectedly in Mexico. The location of the death is unknown (not on Four Seasons property, according to Four Seasons). There have been conflicting reports about the time of death.

    The New York Times' reporting has been so confused that they have put tomorrow's date on one of their corrections. In that correction, they say he died at a villa. But other reports say he died in a gym.

    Before they change it, this is what the NYT correction now says (my emphasis added):

    Correction: May 6, 2015

    An article on Tuesday about the death of Dave Goldberg, chief executive of SurveyMonkey and husband of the Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg, misstated his location at the time of his death. He was at a private villa near the Four Seasons Resort in Punta Minta, near Puerto Vallarta in southwest Mexico, not at the Four Seasons itself.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/technology/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death.html
  134. asdf says:

    I’ve used treadmills for years. Not once did I consider it hazardous. Worst case scenario is that you get distracted and then roll off, falling to the ground and looking like an idiot. Or that you get going too fast, say 7 miles an hour. Your still just gonna fall on your face. How you get to wallowing in a pool of blood… One is skeptical.

  135. @Anonymous

    It’s weird to me that the more obvious “wife did it” possibility hasn’t been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.
     
    How many billionaires, if any, have committed murder?

    A lot, on TV.

    In real life, my old boss Racehorse Haynes’ client, Texas oilman Cullen Davis, would likely have been on the Forbes 400 if it had existed at the time he murdered his wife’s boyfriend and his adolescent stepdaughter in the mid-1970s.

  136. @Anonym
    You find these posts and radiators in gyms that the uber-rich stay at? Maybe you stay at some low-rent hotels, but at 5 star hotels they usually put a modicum of thought into the facilities. Googling "hotel gym treadmill" turns up about half and half gyms where treadmills are well placed, and gyms where they have a wall or another piece of gym equipment behind the treadmill. So perhaps it is possible that he cracked his head open on some poorly placed object behind the treadmill, but just as possible that the gym was well designed and attended to.

    The richer and more powerful someone is, the more numerous, the better resourced and the more intelligent their enemies are, as a rule. Which is a function of the circles they move in, their profile, and the more others stand to profit from their death. Often they don't even realize that some of those they think of as their friends and acquaintances are actually their enemies. (This can also apply to their family members.) When a murder is planned, it is better in general for those who plan it that there is not a full-blown homicide investigation, so it is often staged to look like something other than a homicide.

    Needless to say, this applies to billionaires especially, and high profile billionaires even more so. High intelligence and a touch of paranoia are very useful traits for wealthy people for this reason. Thrust someone without those traits into a position of extreme wealth and it is a situation for which they are not well adapted. Anna Nicole Smith comes to mind.

    Johnny Carson drove himself to work and shlepped about the beach at Malibu all by his lonesome. Jacqueline Onassis traipsed around Manhattan without incident in spite of the papparazzi.

    • Replies: @David
    One lovely late 80's spring morning, about 10 AM, two beefy, suited men began hanging around the corner of Madison and 70th, focusing their attention on the doorway of Matsuda (which I'm told was NYC's most expensive retail rent). Shortly before noon Jackie O. entered the store and slid some clothes around the racks. She asked me if we had "any sexy black tights," to which I said no. She looked around for another 10 seconds, thanked us, and split. Her men moved off when she did. It must have taken a lot of planning and men to keep her covered as she traipsed around Manhattan.
  137. @Mike
    It's weird to me that the more obvious "wife did it" possibility hasn't been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.

    No need to do it yourself either local talent could do the job. Almost impossible to get caught in that country if you have money.

    It’s not an iSteve thread until somebody blames the Jews…..

  138. No twerking.

  139. @markflag
    A significant question is what caused him to fall off the treadmill. Did he have a cardiac arrhythmia, syncope and then fall sustaining the putative fatal head injury. It seems unlikely that he merely fell due to inattention etc. It is a safe assumption that it was not his first time on a treadmill. Seizure is also a possibility.

    I use treadmills and my experience is that they can quickly “eject” you if your attention lags and you simply misstep. They say that there are only two kinds of motorcycle riders, the ones who have dropped their bike and the ones who will drop their bike. Treadmills are pretty much the same deal. The mystery is how he got that particular injury. The ones I use don’t have anything behind them that will puncture your skull after an ejection. The biggest danger is to your hands or face as your feet get thrown back from under you.

  140. @Some Guy
    It's pretty easy to imagine someone like this guy reading something on his smartphone, not paying attention to where he is treading, and then taking a nasty spill.

    It's also pretty easy to imagine that hotel gyms in Mexico do not have the feng shui of lawsuit avoidance that their American counterparts have. Who knows what might have been next to that treadmill, maybe a whole rack of dumbbells.

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?

    You can quantify speed and incline on a treadmill. A lot of Silicon Valley types are into quantifying everything, I think. What gets measured gets managed and all that.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That seems unlikely considering that he was overweight and probably not a fitness freak.
  141. @Jeff W.
    A kind of deep headwound that leaves its victims in a pool of their own blood is a gunshot wound.

    People are speculating about Dave Goldberg being hit over the head with a dumbbell, but dumbbells are not often used as murder weapons.

    Firearms are employed much more frequently and are tools designed for the task.

    A kind of deep headwound that leaves its victims in a pool of their own blood is a gunshot wound.

    People are speculating about Dave Goldberg being hit over the head with a dumbbell, but dumbbells are not often used as murder weapons.

    Firearms are employed much more frequently and are tools designed for the task.

    That’s what I was thinking. Penetrating head wound to occiput sounds rather like a run-of-the-mill hit to me. Use standard low-velocity, hollowpoint handgun round (e.g. .380) and there probably won’t be an exit wound. A layman who found the victim in a pool of blood wouldn’t think to check for the signature entry wound, and the Mexican cops and officials in a state that depends heavily on tourism would have an enormous incentive to lie and destroy evidence. Also, they were probably panicking on that particular day.

    Maybe the cops told the family to leave immediately (for their own safety, of course…), and then when they were conveniently gone staged a coverup. Would this be unthinkable in Mexico?

  142. that’s weird

    Drudge Report News ‏@Drudge_Report_ 7m7 minutes ago
    FOUR #SEASONS #Denies #Sandberg Husband Died at Hotel…
    Was not guest…

    http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/david-goldberg-was-not-a-guest-and-did-not-fatally-fall-here-hotel/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Liability sidestepping ...
  143. @Art Deco
    The problem isn’t a lack of institutions, it’s the reality of race and culture.
    --
    Sayeth the man unawares of how many reversals of fortune there have been over the last two millennia between the various civilizations.

    It is interesting. I’m reading that book about Vasco da Gama I mentioned in a previous thread, and the first part of it basically summarizes medieval history from the beginning of Islam. Kind of hard to believe now that Baghdad was one of the world’s intellectual hubs a thousand years ago.

    • Replies: @HA
    "Kind of hard to believe now that Baghdad was one of the world’s intellectual hubs a thousand years ago."

    Yeah, there are academics who never tire of telling us that the Islamic world was so much more civilized than Christendom for so long, but they don't bother noting that Islam began that game at third base. They inherited (or violently conquered if you don't mind a more accurate rendering) a part of the world that had been at or near the peak of civilization since civilization began. The legacy of Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria, Persia, etc. -- that was all theirs.

    Christianity, on the other hand, took hold in a bunch of nomadic barbarians given to sacrificing each other under oak groves and in the short span of a millennium, turned them into a civilization that far surpassed the one they trashed when they overran Rome. In other words, in just about the same time span as Islam ground itself (with the help of the Mongols) into sand and squalor, enriched only by the muck oozing beneath.
  144. @Psuedo Nom Nom Nom
    The speed of the treadmill is irrelevant. So much of issue with falling is whether you can control parts of your body as you fall. I know someone who had a seizure and fell onto their plush suburban lawn, at very low speeds, but because they couldn't control their body they tore up just about every muscle, tendon, and ligament in their left shoulder when they landed on it. Similarly, falling on a treadmill sometimes means you can't control where land, or what you land on.

    I myself almost ended up like poor Mr. Goldberg. I was in a crowded dorm gym and ate shit on a treadmill going 5 mph while trying to do intervals on it (meaning I'd hop on and off the non-moving exterior to rest). I did some sort of 360 midair spin as I fell backwards and flew towards the square metal edges of a leg-lift stand that was behind and waaaaay to close to the treadmill.

    If I'd have been 6 inches to the right I would've likely had a heinous skull fracture, rather than the long gash in the skin above my ear that I ended up with.

    . I know someone who had a seizure and fell onto their plush suburban lawn, at very low speeds, but because they couldn’t control their body they tore up just about every muscle, tendon, and ligament in their left shoulder when they landed on it

    Their multiple personalities couldn’t have helped, either.

  145. @Mike
    It's weird to me that the more obvious "wife did it" possibility hasn't been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.

    No need to do it yourself either local talent could do the job. Almost impossible to get caught in that country if you have money.

    Why weird? By all accounts, they loved each other. Apparently, everyone who knew Goldberg in Silicon Valley liked him.

  146. @Dave Pinsen

    Why the hell would you go on a treadmill when you could go for a jog on a gorgeous Mexican beach?
     
    You can quantify speed and incline on a treadmill. A lot of Silicon Valley types are into quantifying everything, I think. What gets measured gets managed and all that.

    That seems unlikely considering that he was overweight and probably not a fitness freak.

  147. @Steve Sailer
    Has anybody ever killed themselves by hitting themselves on the back of the head?

    Trunk hedges herself by fudging that if it’s a heart attack that also counts as suicide because heart attacks are preventable [which of course isn't true of all of them].

    She’s trolling, but the media and the family have given her the space to troll by not being more forthcoming about what happened.

  148. @penntothal
    Wild speculation, but: think exit wound for a self-inflicted GSW to the back of the palate.
    Exit wounds sometimes more glaringly obvious than entrance- and the location is right.

    That is a good point about an exit wound. The lower back of the head would be exactly where it would be.

    If you exclude statements from the -bergs and from an anonymous “prosecutor’s office spokesman,” it is remarkable how little we know about this case. We know that Goldberg died suddenly and unexpectedly in Mexico. The location of the death is unknown (not on Four Seasons property, according to Four Seasons). There have been conflicting reports about the time of death.

    The New York Times’ reporting has been so confused that they have put tomorrow’s date on one of their corrections. In that correction, they say he died at a villa. But other reports say he died in a gym.

    Before they change it, this is what the NYT correction now says (my emphasis added):

    Correction: May 6, 2015

    An article on Tuesday about the death of Dave Goldberg, chief executive of SurveyMonkey and husband of the Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg, misstated his location at the time of his death. He was at a private villa near the Four Seasons Resort in Punta Minta, near Puerto Vallarta in southwest Mexico, not at the Four Seasons itself.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/technology/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death.html

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The location confusion is not unexpected because a lot of gated resorts these days have complex ownership of the properties within the gates and thus issues of potential liability in a lawsuit over lost potential earnings of Silicon Valley honcho could be very expensive.

    Almost certainly the death occurred within the secured perimeter of the Punta Mita destination, where the Four Seasons is perhaps the flagship property, but it's not the only property.

    , @Steve Sailer
    The bigger mistake by the NYT is that early on Monday they ran the "collapsed while exercising" story and headline, then later changed it to a "head trauma" headline, which have different implications: medical in the first, either accident (perhaps due to a medical incident) or homicide in the second.
    , @anon
    The Goldberg/Sandberg clan were staying at Palmasola which has its own small "fitness center" (from the picture gallery).

    Interesting to note that Palmasola's Facebook page is currently unavailable, but was cached by Google as recently as April 29.

  149. HA says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    It is interesting. I'm reading that book about Vasco da Gama I mentioned in a previous thread, and the first part of it basically summarizes medieval history from the beginning of Islam. Kind of hard to believe now that Baghdad was one of the world's intellectual hubs a thousand years ago.

    “Kind of hard to believe now that Baghdad was one of the world’s intellectual hubs a thousand years ago.”

    Yeah, there are academics who never tire of telling us that the Islamic world was so much more civilized than Christendom for so long, but they don’t bother noting that Islam began that game at third base. They inherited (or violently conquered if you don’t mind a more accurate rendering) a part of the world that had been at or near the peak of civilization since civilization began. The legacy of Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria, Persia, etc. — that was all theirs.

    Christianity, on the other hand, took hold in a bunch of nomadic barbarians given to sacrificing each other under oak groves and in the short span of a millennium, turned them into a civilization that far surpassed the one they trashed when they overran Rome. In other words, in just about the same time span as Islam ground itself (with the help of the Mongols) into sand and squalor, enriched only by the muck oozing beneath.

  150. @A man in full
    A video on youtube shows an autistic man in Britain being decked by a thug with a single punch. He falls over backwards, like a log, his head impacts the ground. Dead as a doornail.

    Force of Goldberg felled by stroke or heart attack, falling over backwards
    minus extra force from punch
    plus extra force from unsupported travel of head due to height differential from treadmill to floor
    = same result as what happened in UK. Dead as a doornail.

    Only surprise is that it doesn't happen more often.

    Given the mechanics of treadmills, it seems unlikely that he would sustain an injury to the back of the head. Most treadmill fails involve face plants and scorpions:

    http://youtu.be/qNPhVVjnoC0

    Unless he got thrown off the back into a rack or dumbbell at high velocity. I can’t imagine someone with his physique cranking it up that fast though.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Maybe if the treadmill and been turned 180 degrees and he got thrown backwards into the barbell rack? Of course if there were blood on a barbell, that would be worrisome too.
    , @BayAreaBill
    I agree about speed. I workout on treadmills and observe others working out on treadmills all the time. I even fell on one once. (Stupidly walked across several and didn't notice one was still moving. My pride got hurt the most.) Most guys as out of shape as he walk or do a slow trot. I'd be surprised if he maintained over 5 mph for too long. That won't generate a lot of force. I'd be willing to take a spill at that speed if someone paid me $50. But maybe he overdid it and went for that elusive 5 minute mile.
  151. @PapayaSF

    Exercise room?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The treadmill is kind of close to the wall. Could you get this kind of wound from banging your head against the wall.

    Of course, the furniture in exercise rooms get rearranged periodically.

    Were all the barbells on the rack? Was there blood on any of the barbells?

    , @PapayaSF
    Interesting photo, Anon @ #156. Note the small metal knobs at the base of the shutters behind the treadmill. Falling backwards and hitting one of those with your head could certainly injure you. Although I am still puzzled as to how people fall backwards off of a treadmill: doesn't the belt motion cause people to fall forwards?
  152. @Jeff W.
    That is a good point about an exit wound. The lower back of the head would be exactly where it would be.

    If you exclude statements from the -bergs and from an anonymous "prosecutor's office spokesman," it is remarkable how little we know about this case. We know that Goldberg died suddenly and unexpectedly in Mexico. The location of the death is unknown (not on Four Seasons property, according to Four Seasons). There have been conflicting reports about the time of death.

    The New York Times' reporting has been so confused that they have put tomorrow's date on one of their corrections. In that correction, they say he died at a villa. But other reports say he died in a gym.

    Before they change it, this is what the NYT correction now says (my emphasis added):

    Correction: May 6, 2015

    An article on Tuesday about the death of Dave Goldberg, chief executive of SurveyMonkey and husband of the Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg, misstated his location at the time of his death. He was at a private villa near the Four Seasons Resort in Punta Minta, near Puerto Vallarta in southwest Mexico, not at the Four Seasons itself.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/technology/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death.html

    The location confusion is not unexpected because a lot of gated resorts these days have complex ownership of the properties within the gates and thus issues of potential liability in a lawsuit over lost potential earnings of Silicon Valley honcho could be very expensive.

    Almost certainly the death occurred within the secured perimeter of the Punta Mita destination, where the Four Seasons is perhaps the flagship property, but it’s not the only property.

  153. After skimming a couple press accounts of Dave Goldberg’s too short life, I can only conclude he was a great man. Just a few of the amazing facts I’ve learned about this amazing man:

    1. Everyone knew him as “Dave”. Not “David”. That’s how swell he was.
    2. At SurveyMonkey, he was at the forefront of the HTML form tag since at least 2007.
    3. He was on the forefront of husbands letting their wives work.
    4. Not only did he let his wife work, he let her work in jobs that would make billions of dollars. A true feminist, that man.

    Dave Goldberg – a real Mensch – done in by a treadmill. Oh, the tragedy of it all. I don’t know how his wife can go on living.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    They actually knew him as "Goldie". And, similar to Paul Walker, no one who knew him seems to have a bad word about him.
  154. @Jeff W.
    That is a good point about an exit wound. The lower back of the head would be exactly where it would be.

    If you exclude statements from the -bergs and from an anonymous "prosecutor's office spokesman," it is remarkable how little we know about this case. We know that Goldberg died suddenly and unexpectedly in Mexico. The location of the death is unknown (not on Four Seasons property, according to Four Seasons). There have been conflicting reports about the time of death.

    The New York Times' reporting has been so confused that they have put tomorrow's date on one of their corrections. In that correction, they say he died at a villa. But other reports say he died in a gym.

    Before they change it, this is what the NYT correction now says (my emphasis added):

    Correction: May 6, 2015

    An article on Tuesday about the death of Dave Goldberg, chief executive of SurveyMonkey and husband of the Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg, misstated his location at the time of his death. He was at a private villa near the Four Seasons Resort in Punta Minta, near Puerto Vallarta in southwest Mexico, not at the Four Seasons itself.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/technology/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death.html

    The bigger mistake by the NYT is that early on Monday they ran the “collapsed while exercising” story and headline, then later changed it to a “head trauma” headline, which have different implications: medical in the first, either accident (perhaps due to a medical incident) or homicide in the second.

  155. @Chang
    that's weird

    Drudge Report News ‏@Drudge_Report_ 7m7 minutes ago
    FOUR #SEASONS #Denies #Sandberg Husband Died at Hotel...
    Was not guest...
    http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/david-goldberg-was-not-a-guest-and-did-not-fatally-fall-here-hotel/

    Liability sidestepping …

  156. @Anon
    http://agavevillasmexico.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Palmasola-Punta-Mita-38.jpg

    Exercise room?

    The treadmill is kind of close to the wall. Could you get this kind of wound from banging your head against the wall.

    Of course, the furniture in exercise rooms get rearranged periodically.

    Were all the barbells on the rack? Was there blood on any of the barbells?

  157. @Flinders Petrie
    Given the mechanics of treadmills, it seems unlikely that he would sustain an injury to the back of the head. Most treadmill fails involve face plants and scorpions:

    http://youtu.be/qNPhVVjnoC0

    Unless he got thrown off the back into a rack or dumbbell at high velocity. I can't imagine someone with his physique cranking it up that fast though.

    Maybe if the treadmill and been turned 180 degrees and he got thrown backwards into the barbell rack? Of course if there were blood on a barbell, that would be worrisome too.

  158. For the gym bros out there, I think we should all posit the “Do you Even lift” theory. Does Dave Goldberg really seem like a guy who needs to get his daily treadmill run in on vacation? A quick googling of his photos suggests… no. What’s the Over/Under on how many times Goldberg has gone to a gym in his life? Whatever it is, I’ll take the under.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Not everyone who works out regularly looks like a fitness model.
    , @Brutusale
    Just another lumpy guy who did cardio for heart health while never touching an actual weight.

    How'd that work out for him?
  159. Maybe he was donkey punched at the donkey show?

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Lolz.......many many lolz. Thank you for that. RIP of course though.
  160. @Art Deco
    The problem isn’t a lack of institutions, it’s the reality of race and culture.
    --
    Sayeth the man unawares of how many reversals of fortune there have been over the last two millennia between the various civilizations.

    You really think it’s just a matter of “institutions?” What generates institutions?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    If you wish to know why China in 1980 was the way it was and China today is the way it is, biology doesn't get you very far. Ditto for India, which has seen a trebling of it's per capita income. Ditto for a comparison of the economic and social statistics of various Caribbean islands (or various European countries).
  161. “Men looking to attend have been told to ditch the ties “in keeping with Dave’s lifelong hatred of ties,” according to an e-mailed invitation sent to friends of the couple.”

    One of the problems with rebelling against tradition and authority is you lose sight of why decorum is what it is in the first place. Ties don’t exist as a symbol of white male supremacy that Goldberg probably views them as… they are worn because they simply make men look better. Men’s fashion has evolved standards like the tie, jacket, etc. to make men look taller, thinner, more V-shaped. Bucking the trend as some kind of cool, rebellious, lifelong statement just ends up making you look sloppy.

    But I get it, its a silicon valley thing. I’m probably not cool enough to understand.

  162. How do we know he was even found in the exercise room? Has this been confirmed by anybody besides his brother?

  163. @Jeff W.
    That is a good point about an exit wound. The lower back of the head would be exactly where it would be.

    If you exclude statements from the -bergs and from an anonymous "prosecutor's office spokesman," it is remarkable how little we know about this case. We know that Goldberg died suddenly and unexpectedly in Mexico. The location of the death is unknown (not on Four Seasons property, according to Four Seasons). There have been conflicting reports about the time of death.

    The New York Times' reporting has been so confused that they have put tomorrow's date on one of their corrections. In that correction, they say he died at a villa. But other reports say he died in a gym.

    Before they change it, this is what the NYT correction now says (my emphasis added):

    Correction: May 6, 2015

    An article on Tuesday about the death of Dave Goldberg, chief executive of SurveyMonkey and husband of the Facebook executive Sheryl Sandberg, misstated his location at the time of his death. He was at a private villa near the Four Seasons Resort in Punta Minta, near Puerto Vallarta in southwest Mexico, not at the Four Seasons itself.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/technology/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death.html

    The Goldberg/Sandberg clan were staying at Palmasola which has its own small “fitness center” (from the picture gallery).

    Interesting to note that Palmasola’s Facebook page is currently unavailable, but was cached by Google as recently as April 29.

  164. @Flinders Petrie
    Given the mechanics of treadmills, it seems unlikely that he would sustain an injury to the back of the head. Most treadmill fails involve face plants and scorpions:

    http://youtu.be/qNPhVVjnoC0

    Unless he got thrown off the back into a rack or dumbbell at high velocity. I can't imagine someone with his physique cranking it up that fast though.

    I agree about speed. I workout on treadmills and observe others working out on treadmills all the time. I even fell on one once. (Stupidly walked across several and didn’t notice one was still moving. My pride got hurt the most.) Most guys as out of shape as he walk or do a slow trot. I’d be surprised if he maintained over 5 mph for too long. That won’t generate a lot of force. I’d be willing to take a spill at that speed if someone paid me $50. But maybe he overdid it and went for that elusive 5 minute mile.

  165. @BayAreaBill
    After skimming a couple press accounts of Dave Goldberg's too short life, I can only conclude he was a great man. Just a few of the amazing facts I've learned about this amazing man:

    1. Everyone knew him as "Dave". Not "David". That's how swell he was.
    2. At SurveyMonkey, he was at the forefront of the HTML form tag since at least 2007.
    3. He was on the forefront of husbands letting their wives work.
    4. Not only did he let his wife work, he let her work in jobs that would make billions of dollars. A true feminist, that man.


    Dave Goldberg - a real Mensch - done in by a treadmill. Oh, the tragedy of it all. I don't know how his wife can go on living.

    They actually knew him as “Goldie”. And, similar to Paul Walker, no one who knew him seems to have a bad word about him.

  166. @jackmcg
    For the gym bros out there, I think we should all posit the "Do you Even lift" theory. Does Dave Goldberg really seem like a guy who needs to get his daily treadmill run in on vacation? A quick googling of his photos suggests... no. What's the Over/Under on how many times Goldberg has gone to a gym in his life? Whatever it is, I'll take the under.

    Not everyone who works out regularly looks like a fitness model.

    • Replies: @jackmcg
    "Not everyone who works out regularly looks like a fitness model."

    Of course not, but the type of people who work out on vacation don't usually look like doughy sedentaries, either.

  167. Casey says:

    According to ABC, Mexican authorities will not be not be opening a criminal investigation after autopsy results deemed Goldberg’s death an accident and showed no signs of violence.
    Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2065586/survey-monkey-ceo-dave-goldbergs-death-deemed-an-accident/#hMAtUI07vrcmpvJC.99

    Wow fast turnaround. So I guess that settles it. Interesting that they are not even waiting for toxicology results.

  168. Who has incentive to tell the truth here? In
    any foul play scenario, neither the Sandbergs, police, or hotel management have any incentive. Unless of course the hotel is being truthful about him not staying here. The people who have the most to gain are low level employees or guests who might enjoy speculating on a murder mystery. For example, there might be someone who’ll claim to have entered the gym during those hours and not seen him. Or there could be security footage of a cartel member entering the gym.

    Thinking about the social media ban at his funeral; it may be a way to prevent speculation or pics from people who have seen his body or notice odd things at the funeral.

  169. @Blake White
    You have to have some sympathy for the fact that her husband just died decades before his time.

    “Blake White says:

    You have to have some sympathy for the fact that her husband just died decades before his time.”

    Well, actually, no I don’t have to. Whether I do or not is my business. Not that my sympathy would matter; Ms. Sandberg is almost certainly not reading iSteve to either take comfort in sympathy expressed here, or be offended by its lack.

    And I’m pretty certain that internet billionaires don’t ever stop to feel sympathy for – for example – the people whose livelihoods they flush down the toilet when they bring in H1-B workers. They don’t feel sympathy for the estrangement people come to feel for their own homelands, when those places are flooded with immigrants. They don’t feel sympathy for people whose culture is being undermined by those same internet-moguls.

    So – on the whole – no, I don’t feel any sympathy for the plutocrats who are wrecking western civilization. I take no joy in their personal misfortunes (most of them anyway). Neither am I especially going to care.

  170. @Anonymous

    It’s weird to me that the more obvious “wife did it” possibility hasn’t been raised. Bruce Beresford-Redman took his wife to Mexico to kill her.
     
    How many billionaires, if any, have committed murder?

    [How many billionaires, if any, have committed murder?]
    More than have been convicted of it.

  171. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill
    Beyond parody

    I completely agree with the “concern troll”.

    I can’t believe nobody else is posting a comment in support of the so-called troll and it makes me question the intelligence/rationality of readership Steve has or at least those who regularly comment.

    Talk about Occam’s butterknife. Steve cites violent incidents committed on the same day somewhere in the same state as a coincidence. Christ think about how stupid it is to claim this is a noteworthy coincidence when a drug war has been going on for years and the location of the dead guy is merely in the same state or multi-state region.

    On the basis of this so called coincidence and nothing more, Steve presents possible a stray bullet scenario at a Four Seasons resort. That’s really easy to cover up. It’s not like there wouldn’t be 500 outspoken, well heeled guests that could contradict the story.

    Steve, this is the stupidest post you’ve ever written to introduce a novel idea.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Actually, several commenters have argued in favor of a genuine accident, so I think you are being a bit unfair.

    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so - that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age. Otherwise, I think people have a hard time accepting a world where truly freakish accidents can happen, but sometimes they do. I thank you for pointing out that the drug violence does not seem to have been "near" the hotel according to any standard definition of "near."
  172. David says:
    @Art Deco
    Johnny Carson drove himself to work and shlepped about the beach at Malibu all by his lonesome. Jacqueline Onassis traipsed around Manhattan without incident in spite of the papparazzi.

    One lovely late 80′s spring morning, about 10 AM, two beefy, suited men began hanging around the corner of Madison and 70th, focusing their attention on the doorway of Matsuda (which I’m told was NYC’s most expensive retail rent). Shortly before noon Jackie O. entered the store and slid some clothes around the racks. She asked me if we had “any sexy black tights,” to which I said no. She looked around for another 10 seconds, thanked us, and split. Her men moved off when she did. It must have taken a lot of planning and men to keep her covered as she traipsed around Manhattan.

  173. @jackmcg
    For the gym bros out there, I think we should all posit the "Do you Even lift" theory. Does Dave Goldberg really seem like a guy who needs to get his daily treadmill run in on vacation? A quick googling of his photos suggests... no. What's the Over/Under on how many times Goldberg has gone to a gym in his life? Whatever it is, I'll take the under.

    Just another lumpy guy who did cardio for heart health while never touching an actual weight.

    How’d that work out for him?

  174. This situation reminds me of the advertising campaign for Las Vegas: “What happens in Vegas,stays in Vegas.” Those ads invited people to come to Vegas, gamble away their family’s money and have illicit sex with no one finding out about it.

    http://theweek.com/articles/459434/brief-history-what-happens-vegas-stays-vegas

    A similar advertising campaign could be mounted by Mexico, but aimed at people who want to murder their spouse: “Come to Mexico. We will say it was an accident.”

    • Replies: @res
    I haven't been able to look at that slogan the same since hearing a friend of mine render it as: "What happens in Vegas comes to see Dr. ."
  175. @Anonymous
    I completely agree with the "concern troll".

    I can't believe nobody else is posting a comment in support of the so-called troll and it makes me question the intelligence/rationality of readership Steve has or at least those who regularly comment.

    Talk about Occam's butterknife. Steve cites violent incidents committed on the same day somewhere in the same state as a coincidence. Christ think about how stupid it is to claim this is a noteworthy coincidence when a drug war has been going on for years and the location of the dead guy is merely in the same state or multi-state region.

    On the basis of this so called coincidence and nothing more, Steve presents possible a stray bullet scenario at a Four Seasons resort. That's really easy to cover up. It's not like there wouldn't be 500 outspoken, well heeled guests that could contradict the story.

    Steve, this is the stupidest post you've ever written to introduce a novel idea.

    Actually, several commenters have argued in favor of a genuine accident, so I think you are being a bit unfair.

    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so – that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age. Otherwise, I think people have a hard time accepting a world where truly freakish accidents can happen, but sometimes they do. I thank you for pointing out that the drug violence does not seem to have been “near” the hotel according to any standard definition of “near.”

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so – that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age.
    --
    Wife takes the kids somewhere, brother goes somewhere else, he goes to the gym. They get spooked when he does not show up at dinner. If the gyms are small and the ratio of guests to equipment sets is low, it's not all that surprising that no one else was using them that afternoon. The photograph of the treadmill in and amongst the gallery at the Palmasola site depicts it as near the wall, placed on a linoleum surface; the space behind it is not readily visible to the outside.

    http://www.palmasola.net/activities.htm
    , @Anonymous
    Why wasn't an autopsy done?
    , @HA
    "The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so..."

    If an adult family member were out of reach for that time, I suspect my first thought would be that he had forgotten to charge a phone (or a call related to some work-related emergency had run longer than expected and had drained a battery), or that the spotty reception in Mexico was causing a delay in SMS transmissions to the extent that they might have to remember to bring that up with Carlos Slim the next time they meet. Or maybe he had run into an acquaintance and lost track of the time, or even that he had dozed off in the lounge after a post-workout sauna and overslept. Or maybe everyone else was too preoccupied with the other family members to pay close attention to the fact that Dad was running late. Maybe the police never even bothered to question someone of their stature, but that does not mean that those were not the answers they would have given.

    Unless someone were predisposed to morbid thoughts, in particular the fear that narco-assassins were lurking about (such people probably rarely vacation in Mexico to begin with), it does not surprise me that it would take at least a few hours to give vent to a nagging suspicion that something dreadful had happened.

    Perhaps some of the family will now be haunted by guilt over not having sounded an alarm sooner (something they can perhaps address with the psychiatrists who have already been treating them for years and years), but family vacations are hectic logistical tangles.

  176. @Seneca
    "Did the feminist icon who is no doubt a clever gal also use her womanly woman-ness for a helping hand? Is “Lean-in” coded language for “Show some cleavage ladies”?"

    When I first heard the expression that is what I wondered too. I mean have you ever tried to negotiate something with an attractive, busty, business woman wearing slightly proactive summer business attire who was "leaning in"? I have. It can be very distracting and probably gives the lady a competitive advantage (and some ladies know this).

    I think her using the expression "Lean In" for her book title, as an expression that suggests that women need to be more assertive in the work place, was a slightly cheeky, provocative, double entendre. She may have thought it was cutesy I suppose.

    “(and some ladies know this).”

    Damn straight.

    It’s interesting to see the cognitive dissonance of feminists. On one hand, they don’t want to be objectified (or so they SAY) on the other they don’t mind using their sexuality for personal gain.

  177. @The Anti-Gnostic
    You really think it's just a matter of "institutions?" What generates institutions?

    If you wish to know why China in 1980 was the way it was and China today is the way it is, biology doesn’t get you very far. Ditto for India, which has seen a trebling of it’s per capita income. Ditto for a comparison of the economic and social statistics of various Caribbean islands (or various European countries).

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.

    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?
  178. @James Kabala
    Actually, several commenters have argued in favor of a genuine accident, so I think you are being a bit unfair.

    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so - that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age. Otherwise, I think people have a hard time accepting a world where truly freakish accidents can happen, but sometimes they do. I thank you for pointing out that the drug violence does not seem to have been "near" the hotel according to any standard definition of "near."

    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so – that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age.

    Wife takes the kids somewhere, brother goes somewhere else, he goes to the gym. They get spooked when he does not show up at dinner. If the gyms are small and the ratio of guests to equipment sets is low, it’s not all that surprising that no one else was using them that afternoon. The photograph of the treadmill in and amongst the gallery at the Palmasola site depicts it as near the wall, placed on a linoleum surface; the space behind it is not readily visible to the outside.

    http://www.palmasola.net/activities.htm

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Why wasn't an autopsy done?
  179. @Art Deco
    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so – that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age.
    --
    Wife takes the kids somewhere, brother goes somewhere else, he goes to the gym. They get spooked when he does not show up at dinner. If the gyms are small and the ratio of guests to equipment sets is low, it's not all that surprising that no one else was using them that afternoon. The photograph of the treadmill in and amongst the gallery at the Palmasola site depicts it as near the wall, placed on a linoleum surface; the space behind it is not readily visible to the outside.

    http://www.palmasola.net/activities.htm

    Why wasn’t an autopsy done?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Who knows? Because Mexican police practice is such that nothing happened which would trigger one? You think maybe his wife and brother might like it done back in the States at a medical center they trust?
  180. @Anonymous
    Maybe he was donkey punched at the donkey show?

    Lolz…….many many lolz. Thank you for that. RIP of course though.

  181. Sounds like he leaned his head into the wall.

  182. @Dave Pinsen
    Not everyone who works out regularly looks like a fitness model.

    “Not everyone who works out regularly looks like a fitness model.”

    Of course not, but the type of people who work out on vacation don’t usually look like doughy sedentaries, either.

  183. @Art Deco
    If you wish to know why China in 1980 was the way it was and China today is the way it is, biology doesn't get you very far. Ditto for India, which has seen a trebling of it's per capita income. Ditto for a comparison of the economic and social statistics of various Caribbean islands (or various European countries).

    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.

    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.
    --
    They 'go a hell of a long way' to combox blowhards who haven't a clue how much effort and meticulous preparation needs to go into providing evidence for any proposition about a lengthy historical process with a mess of factors involved. Applies also to Richard Lynn, who wrote a book about economic development graced with a bibliography nearly innocent of literature in economics.
    --
    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?
    --
    Stop lying. No such thing happened. Black politicians with few exceptions took over urban cores which were hollowing out as people moved across municipal boundaries to the suburbs, not spanking new 'turnkey cities'. They had denuded tax bases and were facing escalating social problems. Some of the mayors were passable under the circumstances (Carl Stokes, Tom Bradley), some hopelessly unimaginative (Kurt Schmoke), some actively destructive (Marion Barry, Coleman Young).
  184. The day Goldberg died saw a major outbreak of cartel carnage in Puerto Vallarta and Guadalajara.

    For hard core conspiracy theorists: David Duke was attending a major international anti-Jewish conference in Guadalajara while all this was going on.

  185. @The Anti-Gnostic
    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.

    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?

    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.

    They ‘go a hell of a long way’ to combox blowhards who haven’t a clue how much effort and meticulous preparation needs to go into providing evidence for any proposition about a lengthy historical process with a mess of factors involved. Applies also to Richard Lynn, who wrote a book about economic development graced with a bibliography nearly innocent of literature in economics.

    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?

    Stop lying. No such thing happened. Black politicians with few exceptions took over urban cores which were hollowing out as people moved across municipal boundaries to the suburbs, not spanking new ‘turnkey cities’. They had denuded tax bases and were facing escalating social problems. Some of the mayors were passable under the circumstances (Carl Stokes, Tom Bradley), some hopelessly unimaginative (Kurt Schmoke), some actively destructive (Marion Barry, Coleman Young).

    • Replies: @Chief Seattle
    They had denuded tax bases...

    Your argument would be more convincing if there was a single black-majority, black-run place in the world that wasn't a poor, violent nightmare.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    You are going an awful long way around to avoid the obvious: when federal courts ordered bussing to integrate the schools, whites left the urban areas, effectively ceding buildings, roads, municipal codes, traffic courts, police forces, bureaucracies, etc. to black demographic majorities, which proceeded to bring the institutions to their level of social capital.

    As the saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You may be able to get a Paul Kagame running things who will make something perfectly serviceable (with a lot of financial aid), but it is not going to be a place where most white people want to live.

  186. @James Kabala
    Actually, several commenters have argued in favor of a genuine accident, so I think you are being a bit unfair.

    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so - that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age. Otherwise, I think people have a hard time accepting a world where truly freakish accidents can happen, but sometimes they do. I thank you for pointing out that the drug violence does not seem to have been "near" the hotel according to any standard definition of "near."

    Why wasn’t an autopsy done?

  187. At my gym, they recently started putting traffic cones on unused treadmills because someone stepped onto a moving one and got pitched off the back and broke a leg.

    I agree with the Occam’s Razor point. I think the explanation for the rapid departure could just as easily be some conflict with the management or issues relating to business or wealth transfer.

    This post is lacking some basic detective info, like the proximity of the resort to the violence, etc.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Puerto Vallarta was one of the main hubs of cartel terrorist attacks on Friday, May 1. You and I would fly into Puerto Vallarta and drive to Punta Mita. I don't know whether there is a private jet strip at the resort.
  188. @Jeff W.
    This situation reminds me of the advertising campaign for Las Vegas: "What happens in Vegas,stays in Vegas." Those ads invited people to come to Vegas, gamble away their family's money and have illicit sex with no one finding out about it.

    http://theweek.com/articles/459434/brief-history-what-happens-vegas-stays-vegas

    A similar advertising campaign could be mounted by Mexico, but aimed at people who want to murder their spouse: "Come to Mexico. We will say it was an accident."

    I haven’t been able to look at that slogan the same since hearing a friend of mine render it as: “What happens in Vegas comes to see Dr. .”

  189. HA says:
    @James Kabala
    Actually, several commenters have argued in favor of a genuine accident, so I think you are being a bit unfair.

    The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so - that seems unlikely for a tech billionaire on vacation in the smartphone age. Otherwise, I think people have a hard time accepting a world where truly freakish accidents can happen, but sometimes they do. I thank you for pointing out that the drug violence does not seem to have been "near" the hotel according to any standard definition of "near."

    “The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so…”

    If an adult family member were out of reach for that time, I suspect my first thought would be that he had forgotten to charge a phone (or a call related to some work-related emergency had run longer than expected and had drained a battery), or that the spotty reception in Mexico was causing a delay in SMS transmissions to the extent that they might have to remember to bring that up with Carlos Slim the next time they meet. Or maybe he had run into an acquaintance and lost track of the time, or even that he had dozed off in the lounge after a post-workout sauna and overslept. Or maybe everyone else was too preoccupied with the other family members to pay close attention to the fact that Dad was running late. Maybe the police never even bothered to question someone of their stature, but that does not mean that those were not the answers they would have given.

    Unless someone were predisposed to morbid thoughts, in particular the fear that narco-assassins were lurking about (such people probably rarely vacation in Mexico to begin with), it does not surprise me that it would take at least a few hours to give vent to a nagging suspicion that something dreadful had happened.

    Perhaps some of the family will now be haunted by guilt over not having sounded an alarm sooner (something they can perhaps address with the psychiatrists who have already been treating them for years and years), but family vacations are hectic logistical tangles.

    • Replies: @James Kabala
    That seems plausible enough to me. Again, this is merely the one thing that gave me pause, no more.

    In his earlier post I thought Steve (like Penelope Trunk) was hinting at suicide, which at least would be the sort of thing that plausibly gets covered up. The murder theory - I don't get it. Don't you think that there was probably an accidental death somewhere in Maryland or D.C. on the day of the Freddy Gray riots? There seems no more proved connection for this than there would be for that.

  190. @Chrisnonymous
    At my gym, they recently started putting traffic cones on unused treadmills because someone stepped onto a moving one and got pitched off the back and broke a leg.

    I agree with the Occam's Razor point. I think the explanation for the rapid departure could just as easily be some conflict with the management or issues relating to business or wealth transfer.

    This post is lacking some basic detective info, like the proximity of the resort to the violence, etc.

    Puerto Vallarta was one of the main hubs of cartel terrorist attacks on Friday, May 1. You and I would fly into Puerto Vallarta and drive to Punta Mita. I don’t know whether there is a private jet strip at the resort.

  191. @Anonymous
    Why wasn't an autopsy done?

    Who knows? Because Mexican police practice is such that nothing happened which would trigger one? You think maybe his wife and brother might like it done back in the States at a medical center they trust?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Who knows? Because Mexican police practice is such that nothing happened which would trigger one? You think maybe his wife and brother might like it done back in the States at a medical center they trust?

    If you were his wife or brother, wouldn't you want an autopsy done (stateside, if possible) to determine what had happened? I would think the family has enough resources to have had a thorough autopsy done in the United States. It doesn't even appear one was done in Mexico.
  192. @rod1963
    Steve is onto to something, Goldberg could have been a easy target of opportunity, rub out a el hefe in a exclusive resort to send a message that all are fair game for the cartels. And it would explain why his wife ran off like a scalded cat - she was probably informed the cartels did it or were nearby.

    Steve is onto to something, Goldberg could have been a easy target of opportunity, rub out a el hefe in a exclusive resort to send a message that all are fair game for the cartels. And it would explain why his wife ran off like a scalded cat – she was probably informed the cartels did it or were nearby.

    It’s also a case where upsetting the status quo is cataclysmic. Nobody seriously wants to shut down the cartels. If they did, we would see predator drones, Navy SEALs, aircraft carriers off the coast of Columbia, etc. We don’t. It’s all a scam designed to fool just enough of the gullible masses. Our elites like their occasional snorts of blow and our bankers like the billions and billions of dollars generated even more. You don’t think a good sum of those dollars are buying campaign political ads on TV?

    And from Sandberg’s perspective, if she talks to press about a cartel murder of hubby, does she make herself a target? Does she have kids? Parents? Siblings?

    • Replies: @Truth

    If they did, we would see predator drones, Navy SEALs, aircraft carriers off the coast of Columbia, etc.
     
    Well now Stanley, we've had all of that stuff in Afghanistan for 14 years, but it hasn't shut down Al-Qaeda, now has it.
  193. @Anon
    http://agavevillasmexico.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Palmasola-Punta-Mita-38.jpg

    Exercise room?

    Interesting photo, Anon @ #156. Note the small metal knobs at the base of the shutters behind the treadmill. Falling backwards and hitting one of those with your head could certainly injure you. Although I am still puzzled as to how people fall backwards off of a treadmill: doesn’t the belt motion cause people to fall forwards?

  194. Speaking of treadmills and Mexicans…

    Price is Right embarrassed itself yet again

  195. @HA
    "The only thing that seems odd to me (if true) is that he was apparently out of contact with his family for three hours or so..."

    If an adult family member were out of reach for that time, I suspect my first thought would be that he had forgotten to charge a phone (or a call related to some work-related emergency had run longer than expected and had drained a battery), or that the spotty reception in Mexico was causing a delay in SMS transmissions to the extent that they might have to remember to bring that up with Carlos Slim the next time they meet. Or maybe he had run into an acquaintance and lost track of the time, or even that he had dozed off in the lounge after a post-workout sauna and overslept. Or maybe everyone else was too preoccupied with the other family members to pay close attention to the fact that Dad was running late. Maybe the police never even bothered to question someone of their stature, but that does not mean that those were not the answers they would have given.

    Unless someone were predisposed to morbid thoughts, in particular the fear that narco-assassins were lurking about (such people probably rarely vacation in Mexico to begin with), it does not surprise me that it would take at least a few hours to give vent to a nagging suspicion that something dreadful had happened.

    Perhaps some of the family will now be haunted by guilt over not having sounded an alarm sooner (something they can perhaps address with the psychiatrists who have already been treating them for years and years), but family vacations are hectic logistical tangles.

    That seems plausible enough to me. Again, this is merely the one thing that gave me pause, no more.

    In his earlier post I thought Steve (like Penelope Trunk) was hinting at suicide, which at least would be the sort of thing that plausibly gets covered up. The murder theory – I don’t get it. Don’t you think that there was probably an accidental death somewhere in Maryland or D.C. on the day of the Freddy Gray riots? There seems no more proved connection for this than there would be for that.

    • Replies: @Casey
    I don't think they would cover up murder (why?) but suicide or separate vacations involving lovers, yes.

    Occams' Razor...hm how about if the majority of people, all with little personal involvement in a case think something's fishy, something's probably fishy.

    All the explanations of why he may have been forgotten until 7 when he didn't show up for dinner would work for a single male relative, one of the centers of the little power couple universe, not so much. This lends support to the assertion I heard elsewhere that his wife was not with him in Mexico, and the kids were in CA. After all, even the tributes are going on about how he and his wife ALWAYS had dinner with the kids at 5:30, and how they NEVER traveled at the same time so one could stay home with the kids.

    If his wife was out shopping or swimming with the kids, that would certainly have been mentioned already in the news reports. I agree with Steve about the privacy issue - I left facebook because I could not shield myself from an obnoxious relative. You cannot block someone from tagging you in photos, or cleanly separate work and family life. They kept saying they solved this problem because you could remove a tag or prevent the photo from showing on your timeline. This is after it has already been seen by all your current friends and coworkers on their newsfeeds, so completely useless. All would be easy to implement and when I searched for a solution before deactivating noted that tons of people were having the same problem and our concerns unheeded by Fb.

    Meanwhile, I challenge anyone here to find a single image online of this family. There are ZERO, not a single one. No one is even talking about their kids at all - what are their names how old are they? This is normal fodder for these kinds of stories, even before the internet age. It is truly bizarre. Incredibly you cannot find one scrap of information about this famous power couple's family online, and yet they are partially famous for their 'ideal' family life! After the rest of us are left struggling to preserve our privacy in the internet age with zero sympathy from facebook, now everyone is very solemn about protecting facebook execs privacy. I say the hell with that.

    Finally, I agree with Penelope Trunk, when a power couple is held up as the standard, and makes big profits with their story, readers and those who have paid for the courses or whatever certainly deserve some real investigative reporting when it looks like it may have been a lie.
  196. Casey says:
    @James Kabala
    That seems plausible enough to me. Again, this is merely the one thing that gave me pause, no more.

    In his earlier post I thought Steve (like Penelope Trunk) was hinting at suicide, which at least would be the sort of thing that plausibly gets covered up. The murder theory - I don't get it. Don't you think that there was probably an accidental death somewhere in Maryland or D.C. on the day of the Freddy Gray riots? There seems no more proved connection for this than there would be for that.

    I don’t think they would cover up murder (why?) but suicide or separate vacations involving lovers, yes.

    Occams’ Razor…hm how about if the majority of people, all with little personal involvement in a case think something’s fishy, something’s probably fishy.

    All the explanations of why he may have been forgotten until 7 when he didn’t show up for dinner would work for a single male relative, one of the centers of the little power couple universe, not so much. This lends support to the assertion I heard elsewhere that his wife was not with him in Mexico, and the kids were in CA. After all, even the tributes are going on about how he and his wife ALWAYS had dinner with the kids at 5:30, and how they NEVER traveled at the same time so one could stay home with the kids.

    If his wife was out shopping or swimming with the kids, that would certainly have been mentioned already in the news reports. I agree with Steve about the privacy issue – I left facebook because I could not shield myself from an obnoxious relative. You cannot block someone from tagging you in photos, or cleanly separate work and family life. They kept saying they solved this problem because you could remove a tag or prevent the photo from showing on your timeline. This is after it has already been seen by all your current friends and coworkers on their newsfeeds, so completely useless. All would be easy to implement and when I searched for a solution before deactivating noted that tons of people were having the same problem and our concerns unheeded by Fb.

    Meanwhile, I challenge anyone here to find a single image online of this family. There are ZERO, not a single one. No one is even talking about their kids at all – what are their names how old are they? This is normal fodder for these kinds of stories, even before the internet age. It is truly bizarre. Incredibly you cannot find one scrap of information about this famous power couple’s family online, and yet they are partially famous for their ‘ideal’ family life! After the rest of us are left struggling to preserve our privacy in the internet age with zero sympathy from facebook, now everyone is very solemn about protecting facebook execs privacy. I say the hell with that.

    Finally, I agree with Penelope Trunk, when a power couple is held up as the standard, and makes big profits with their story, readers and those who have paid for the courses or whatever certainly deserve some real investigative reporting when it looks like it may have been a lie.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    Very observant and interesting post; thanks.
  197. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    Who knows? Because Mexican police practice is such that nothing happened which would trigger one? You think maybe his wife and brother might like it done back in the States at a medical center they trust?

    Who knows? Because Mexican police practice is such that nothing happened which would trigger one? You think maybe his wife and brother might like it done back in the States at a medical center they trust?

    If you were his wife or brother, wouldn’t you want an autopsy done (stateside, if possible) to determine what had happened? I would think the family has enough resources to have had a thorough autopsy done in the United States. It doesn’t even appear one was done in Mexico.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Why is it your assumption that one has not been done or will not be done?
  198. JV says:
    @SPMoore8
    I appreciate Steve continuing to highlight this story because it is bizarre on its face, which doesn't make it untrue. On the other hand we want to be careful about taking this too far down the rabbit hole of Vince Foster and Sarah Palin giving birth to her own special needs granddaughter.

    In fairness, however, I think what's really being discussed here is not so much the weird death of David Goldberg -- whose private person status was negated by his famous spouse who used him as a prop in her agenda -- but rather his wife, her ideological and proto-political associations, and the entire world of social media. In short, how does Facebook mourn? And has anyone's conduct here been consistent with the product they are selling? And, WRT a comment Steve made yesterday, if Sheryl Sandberg does indeed put her political ambitions ahead of the kids at this point, I say, bad move.

    Bottom line, it's kind of hard to have private grief and private family focus when dealing with persons who have been loud in selling their private lives as a model for everyone else. They can have it, and they'll get it, if they want it, but not without the dying echo of cafeteria chatter. Which is what we are doing here.

    On a related note, I see that Nelly Bly pushed off both Karl Marx and Cinco de Mayo from Google today.

    Social media is not an all or nothing tool. People choose which parts of their lives they want to share, some people share a lot more than others. So, I don’t think it’s hypocritical for even the COO of Facebook to ask for privacy during a funeral. There’s a time for sharing and a time for keeping the damn smartphone in your pocket.

  199. @Anonymous
    Who knows? Because Mexican police practice is such that nothing happened which would trigger one? You think maybe his wife and brother might like it done back in the States at a medical center they trust?

    If you were his wife or brother, wouldn't you want an autopsy done (stateside, if possible) to determine what had happened? I would think the family has enough resources to have had a thorough autopsy done in the United States. It doesn't even appear one was done in Mexico.

    Why is it your assumption that one has not been done or will not be done?

  200. According to CBS, an autopsy was performed and “Goldberg had a heart arrhythmia that may have contributed to his death”:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/surveymonkey-ceo-david-goldberg-death-autopsy-results-suggest-heart-arrhythmia/

    Here you’ll find video of people arriving at the memorial service—no ties!—as well as aerial views and a promo video of Palmasola:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3070774/Autopsy-suggests-heart-arrhythmia-contributed-David-Goldberg-s-death-Mexican-resort.html

  201. The entire thing just smells. People are talking about Occam’s razor here. Well, 30 people have died on treadmills in a twelve year period according to research I looked up. Many of them died from heart attacks, sudden death, etc, but that isn’t how Dave died. Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill. If someone did fall onto a hard edge it would be obvious from blood pattern analysis. Did the Mexican police bother to check up on that?

    Over 100,000 people have died violently in Mexico’s drug war. If you’re going to invoke Occam’s razor, you should consider the above numbers.

    Personally, I have nothing at all invested either way. But I don’t like BS. If Dave Goldberg was my brother I’d be pushing really hard for a thorough investigation by non-locals. Maybe that’s what’s going on behind the scenes. I have no idea.

    Still, it amazes me that people are so willing to take what comes out of the mouths of Mexican officials at face value. If it had happened here in the US I’ll bet there’d be a lot more skepticism, even though we have state of the art forensics and crime scene investigators. That’s how weird this incident is.

    Anyway, we’ll probably never know exactly what happened to Dave Goldberg in that little gym. Just file it under “mysterious incidents in Mexico” and move on I guess.

    • Replies: @HA
    "Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill."

    Does it say anywhere that he actually fell directly from the treadmill? I've seen a number of 'fail' videos where someone loses balance and trips, then flails around before falling even more catastrophically. Apparently, that kind of thing does not happen only in Buster Keaton movies. As previously noted, he could have fallen in some regular face-forward fashion, and then staggered around rubbing his hurt knee/wrist/forehead before tripping again and falling backwards onto a rack or corner table.

    If tomorrow we learn that he had been deeply depressed, or that he was about to divorce his wife, or that he had recently had a bitter break-up with a vengeful mistress, or that a man with a rifle was observed sneaking about at the time, then yes, some further questions would be warranted. But for now, as freakish as this demise was, it seems more statistically likely than the alternate theories being proposed, absent any other evidence, such as was amply on display in the T Cullen Davis case that Steve mentioned, for example.

    , @Anonymous
    I have no problem with alternative explanations, but it seems like the cartel explanation is among the more unlikely ones from what we know. If he was killed in a shootout in a hotel lobby or restaurant, then the cartel explanation would be more plausible. But if he did indeed die in the exercise room of this resort villa and was murdered, wouldn't it be more plausible that he was killed by a random Mexican guy or maybe one of the hotel service personnel than the cartel going all the way into the exercise room of a resort just to kill one guy? Unless he was specifically on a cartel hit list or something, which seems unlikely.
    , @Anonymous
    His brother saw the body, no? And the body was sent to the US for the funeral. Presumably if there was a major discrepancy between what the Mexican authorities were saying and what the family saw, the family would have said something. In other words, if there were bullet wounds or signs of serious trauma, then the family would probably take action.
  202. HA says:
    @Bill P
    The entire thing just smells. People are talking about Occam's razor here. Well, 30 people have died on treadmills in a twelve year period according to research I looked up. Many of them died from heart attacks, sudden death, etc, but that isn't how Dave died. Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill. If someone did fall onto a hard edge it would be obvious from blood pattern analysis. Did the Mexican police bother to check up on that?

    Over 100,000 people have died violently in Mexico's drug war. If you're going to invoke Occam's razor, you should consider the above numbers.

    Personally, I have nothing at all invested either way. But I don't like BS. If Dave Goldberg was my brother I'd be pushing really hard for a thorough investigation by non-locals. Maybe that's what's going on behind the scenes. I have no idea.

    Still, it amazes me that people are so willing to take what comes out of the mouths of Mexican officials at face value. If it had happened here in the US I'll bet there'd be a lot more skepticism, even though we have state of the art forensics and crime scene investigators. That's how weird this incident is.

    Anyway, we'll probably never know exactly what happened to Dave Goldberg in that little gym. Just file it under "mysterious incidents in Mexico" and move on I guess.

    “Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill.”

    Does it say anywhere that he actually fell directly from the treadmill? I’ve seen a number of ‘fail’ videos where someone loses balance and trips, then flails around before falling even more catastrophically. Apparently, that kind of thing does not happen only in Buster Keaton movies. As previously noted, he could have fallen in some regular face-forward fashion, and then staggered around rubbing his hurt knee/wrist/forehead before tripping again and falling backwards onto a rack or corner table.

    If tomorrow we learn that he had been deeply depressed, or that he was about to divorce his wife, or that he had recently had a bitter break-up with a vengeful mistress, or that a man with a rifle was observed sneaking about at the time, then yes, some further questions would be warranted. But for now, as freakish as this demise was, it seems more statistically likely than the alternate theories being proposed, absent any other evidence, such as was amply on display in the T Cullen Davis case that Steve mentioned, for example.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A simple question: what was blood found on besides the floor? What caused the fatal head trauma gash on the back of his skill. If there was blood from the gash in the back of the poor man's head on say, a sharply jutting windowsill directly behind the treadmill, that would seem like a pretty simple explanation.
  203. @HA
    "Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill."

    Does it say anywhere that he actually fell directly from the treadmill? I've seen a number of 'fail' videos where someone loses balance and trips, then flails around before falling even more catastrophically. Apparently, that kind of thing does not happen only in Buster Keaton movies. As previously noted, he could have fallen in some regular face-forward fashion, and then staggered around rubbing his hurt knee/wrist/forehead before tripping again and falling backwards onto a rack or corner table.

    If tomorrow we learn that he had been deeply depressed, or that he was about to divorce his wife, or that he had recently had a bitter break-up with a vengeful mistress, or that a man with a rifle was observed sneaking about at the time, then yes, some further questions would be warranted. But for now, as freakish as this demise was, it seems more statistically likely than the alternate theories being proposed, absent any other evidence, such as was amply on display in the T Cullen Davis case that Steve mentioned, for example.

    A simple question: what was blood found on besides the floor? What caused the fatal head trauma gash on the back of his skill. If there was blood from the gash in the back of the poor man’s head on say, a sharply jutting windowsill directly behind the treadmill, that would seem like a pretty simple explanation.

  204. @Casey
    I don't think they would cover up murder (why?) but suicide or separate vacations involving lovers, yes.

    Occams' Razor...hm how about if the majority of people, all with little personal involvement in a case think something's fishy, something's probably fishy.

    All the explanations of why he may have been forgotten until 7 when he didn't show up for dinner would work for a single male relative, one of the centers of the little power couple universe, not so much. This lends support to the assertion I heard elsewhere that his wife was not with him in Mexico, and the kids were in CA. After all, even the tributes are going on about how he and his wife ALWAYS had dinner with the kids at 5:30, and how they NEVER traveled at the same time so one could stay home with the kids.

    If his wife was out shopping or swimming with the kids, that would certainly have been mentioned already in the news reports. I agree with Steve about the privacy issue - I left facebook because I could not shield myself from an obnoxious relative. You cannot block someone from tagging you in photos, or cleanly separate work and family life. They kept saying they solved this problem because you could remove a tag or prevent the photo from showing on your timeline. This is after it has already been seen by all your current friends and coworkers on their newsfeeds, so completely useless. All would be easy to implement and when I searched for a solution before deactivating noted that tons of people were having the same problem and our concerns unheeded by Fb.

    Meanwhile, I challenge anyone here to find a single image online of this family. There are ZERO, not a single one. No one is even talking about their kids at all - what are their names how old are they? This is normal fodder for these kinds of stories, even before the internet age. It is truly bizarre. Incredibly you cannot find one scrap of information about this famous power couple's family online, and yet they are partially famous for their 'ideal' family life! After the rest of us are left struggling to preserve our privacy in the internet age with zero sympathy from facebook, now everyone is very solemn about protecting facebook execs privacy. I say the hell with that.

    Finally, I agree with Penelope Trunk, when a power couple is held up as the standard, and makes big profits with their story, readers and those who have paid for the courses or whatever certainly deserve some real investigative reporting when it looks like it may have been a lie.

    Very observant and interesting post; thanks.

  205. @Stan D Mute

    Steve is onto to something, Goldberg could have been a easy target of opportunity, rub out a el hefe in a exclusive resort to send a message that all are fair game for the cartels. And it would explain why his wife ran off like a scalded cat – she was probably informed the cartels did it or were nearby.
     
    It's also a case where upsetting the status quo is cataclysmic. Nobody seriously wants to shut down the cartels. If they did, we would see predator drones, Navy SEALs, aircraft carriers off the coast of Columbia, etc. We don't. It's all a scam designed to fool just enough of the gullible masses. Our elites like their occasional snorts of blow and our bankers like the billions and billions of dollars generated even more. You don't think a good sum of those dollars are buying campaign political ads on TV?

    And from Sandberg's perspective, if she talks to press about a cartel murder of hubby, does she make herself a target? Does she have kids? Parents? Siblings?

    If they did, we would see predator drones, Navy SEALs, aircraft carriers off the coast of Columbia, etc.

    Well now Stanley, we’ve had all of that stuff in Afghanistan for 14 years, but it hasn’t shut down Al-Qaeda, now has it.

  206. @Art Deco
    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.
    --
    They 'go a hell of a long way' to combox blowhards who haven't a clue how much effort and meticulous preparation needs to go into providing evidence for any proposition about a lengthy historical process with a mess of factors involved. Applies also to Richard Lynn, who wrote a book about economic development graced with a bibliography nearly innocent of literature in economics.
    --
    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?
    --
    Stop lying. No such thing happened. Black politicians with few exceptions took over urban cores which were hollowing out as people moved across municipal boundaries to the suburbs, not spanking new 'turnkey cities'. They had denuded tax bases and were facing escalating social problems. Some of the mayors were passable under the circumstances (Carl Stokes, Tom Bradley), some hopelessly unimaginative (Kurt Schmoke), some actively destructive (Marion Barry, Coleman Young).

    They had denuded tax bases…

    Your argument would be more convincing if there was a single black-majority, black-run place in the world that wasn’t a poor, violent nightmare.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Your argument would be more convincing if there was a single black-majority, black-run place in the world that wasn’t a poor, violent nightmare.

    Barbados.


    Now go away.
  207. There is not one monolithic elite that runs this country. There are factions among the elites.

    But among the faction that runs the U.S. media, Sheryl Sandberg is right at the top of the power pyramid. She and her late husband are above criticism. Everything they did was perfect and everything they have said must be eagerly accepted as truth.

    This does not mean that she is not also near the top of the financial and political power pyramids.

    The Clintons, by contrast, are much lower ranking. They can be criticized freely, and they are attacked in the media every day.

    I think it’s important for every citizen to know who is running their country, and it’s clear that the group around Sheryl Sandberg is very powerful. When it comes to punching, she can only punch down because there are no higher ups from where she stands.

  208. @Mark Minter
    I follow PV realty as a hobby. I compare it to other spots. It is a unique spot in the world for architecture. Here check out some of these houses for sale.

    http://www.lapuntarealty.com/

    This is a specialty firm that concentrates on where the best places are located, Punta Mita. The area is located on the north short of the Bay of Banderas.

    The old Burton/Taylor days that put the place on the map was located in Puerto Vallarta proper and in the Conchas Chinas area just south of the town. The road is narrow and quite winding out to this place Mismaloya where the road then turns south and travels inland to Barre de Navidad. I like this area best. It is sort of arty and a lot of the houses have a real style to them, LA Gay meets Mexico.

    There is a big gay thing in PV with lots of gay clubs, even beaches. And these older villas in Conchas Chinas have been renovated by faggots and offer some incredible deals for the price. They aren't cheap mind you, 2-5 million will get you a big Mexican villa up on a sloping hillside that looks like a cross between a Hollywood Hills place and a Hacienda, with higher prices for sea coast frontage. But all have pools and great vistas.

    But the serious stuff is what this La Punta Realty offers in Punta Mita. This place is about an hour from PV proper and most of the newer stuff, the hotels etc, are north of PV. Punta Mita is actually in another state, Nayarit. It is an enclosed, high security, gated enclave of high end homes, with currently a 4 Seasons resort that has tennis and a great golf course. Punta Mita is surrounded on 3 sides by ocean with a single controlled entry point. There is a St Regis under development. It would be harder to find a more secure, more controlled spot in Mexico.

    Just outside the gates of the resort is the run down little town of Punta Mita, and before the town there are two more high dollar developments, El Banco and El Rancho were the houses run from 5 million to 20 million. There are some wet dream haciendas located there. Most are rented out for events like weddings for 2500 to 5000 per day.

    The area is well protected and usually quite immune to what might be happening in other parts of Jalisco. US travel warnings speak against going inland or heading north out PV but even then, issues are rare, the random car jacking.

    But for a couple of years when the newspapers were full of stories about horrible shit going on in Mexico, that real estate market was frozen. Nobody could sell anything. And prices dropped and still nothing sold. Then within the past couple of years, stuff started moving. Especially the stuff inside the Punta Mita resort. Four Seasons built some villas and there were two differents sorts of houses, some golf course houses El Lago Estates, and beachfront La Punta estates.

    And then things started moving well down in other parts of PV. Lots of really cool stuff that had sat dormant for years just went in between my researches in the area.

    Now....

    If I were some extra-legal kingpin and the Government of Jalisco wanted to play games with me, to go inside Punta Mita by going into the little town and finding a person that worked inside the resort and giving him a Plumo o Plata alternative (Lead or Silver) that he kill a vacation fat cat and show that even Punta Mita wasn't safe from the kingpin and send shivers back through the pipeline. A lot of money was lost this weekend, and if not lost, it sets the place back at least six months in people forgetting the past few years.

    Of course the idea is far fetched, knowing what we know, and how protected Punta Mita is. But it was weird with the timing with the other violence and then how slow the details came out.

    Mark Minter: I stopped reading your interesting comment when you used the word “faggots” in paragraph 4.
    It makes everything you have to say less credible.

  209. @Art Deco
    Nature vs. nurture actually goes a hell of a long way in explaining China and India.
    --
    They 'go a hell of a long way' to combox blowhards who haven't a clue how much effort and meticulous preparation needs to go into providing evidence for any proposition about a lengthy historical process with a mess of factors involved. Applies also to Richard Lynn, who wrote a book about economic development graced with a bibliography nearly innocent of literature in economics.
    --
    There are US cities all up and down the Eastern seaboard which were essentially ceded in turn-key fashion, institutions and all, to black democratic majorities. Guess what happened?
    --
    Stop lying. No such thing happened. Black politicians with few exceptions took over urban cores which were hollowing out as people moved across municipal boundaries to the suburbs, not spanking new 'turnkey cities'. They had denuded tax bases and were facing escalating social problems. Some of the mayors were passable under the circumstances (Carl Stokes, Tom Bradley), some hopelessly unimaginative (Kurt Schmoke), some actively destructive (Marion Barry, Coleman Young).

    You are going an awful long way around to avoid the obvious: when federal courts ordered bussing to integrate the schools, whites left the urban areas, effectively ceding buildings, roads, municipal codes, traffic courts, police forces, bureaucracies, etc. to black demographic majorities, which proceeded to bring the institutions to their level of social capital.

    As the saying goes, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. You may be able to get a Paul Kagame running things who will make something perfectly serviceable (with a lot of financial aid), but it is not going to be a place where most white people want to live.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You are going an awful long way around to avoid the obvious: when federal courts ordered bussing to integrate the schools, whites left the urban areas,

    -

    Controversies over school busing were non-existent prior to 1968 (Southern school systems are generally coterminous with counties), were at their peak in 1975, and dissipated after 1981. Rebalancing of population between core cities and suburbs was a social process which antedated busing by more than four decades and continued after courts had largely given up on the practice. My own hometown saw its peak population in 1930 and had almost monotonic decline over 40 years as the suburbs blossomed. Busing did not do that. The net migration of Southern blacks to northern cities was ongoing between 1915 to 1970, antedating busing.
    , @Art Deco
    effectively ceding buildings, roads, municipal codes, traffic courts, police forces, bureaucracies

    All of which have legacy costs and carrying charges.
  210. @Chief Seattle
    They had denuded tax bases...

    Your argument would be more convincing if there was a single black-majority, black-run place in the world that wasn't a poor, violent nightmare.

    Your argument would be more convincing if there was a single black-majority, black-run place in the world that wasn’t a poor, violent nightmare.

    Barbados.

    Now go away.

  211. @The Anti-Gnostic
    You are going an awful long way around to avoid the obvious: when federal courts ordered bussing to integrate the schools, whites left the urban areas, effectively ceding buildings, roads, municipal codes, traffic courts, police forces, bureaucracies, etc. to black demographic majorities, which proceeded to bring the institutions to their level of social capital.

    As the saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You may be able to get a Paul Kagame running things who will make something perfectly serviceable (with a lot of financial aid), but it is not going to be a place where most white people want to live.

    You are going an awful long way around to avoid the obvious: when federal courts ordered bussing to integrate the schools, whites left the urban areas,

    -

    Controversies over school busing were non-existent prior to 1968 (Southern school systems are generally coterminous with counties), were at their peak in 1975, and dissipated after 1981. Rebalancing of population between core cities and suburbs was a social process which antedated busing by more than four decades and continued after courts had largely given up on the practice. My own hometown saw its peak population in 1930 and had almost monotonic decline over 40 years as the suburbs blossomed. Busing did not do that. The net migration of Southern blacks to northern cities was ongoing between 1915 to 1970, antedating busing.

  212. @The Anti-Gnostic
    You are going an awful long way around to avoid the obvious: when federal courts ordered bussing to integrate the schools, whites left the urban areas, effectively ceding buildings, roads, municipal codes, traffic courts, police forces, bureaucracies, etc. to black demographic majorities, which proceeded to bring the institutions to their level of social capital.

    As the saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You may be able to get a Paul Kagame running things who will make something perfectly serviceable (with a lot of financial aid), but it is not going to be a place where most white people want to live.

    effectively ceding buildings, roads, municipal codes, traffic courts, police forces, bureaucracies

    All of which have legacy costs and carrying charges.

  213. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    The entire thing just smells. People are talking about Occam's razor here. Well, 30 people have died on treadmills in a twelve year period according to research I looked up. Many of them died from heart attacks, sudden death, etc, but that isn't how Dave died. Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill. If someone did fall onto a hard edge it would be obvious from blood pattern analysis. Did the Mexican police bother to check up on that?

    Over 100,000 people have died violently in Mexico's drug war. If you're going to invoke Occam's razor, you should consider the above numbers.

    Personally, I have nothing at all invested either way. But I don't like BS. If Dave Goldberg was my brother I'd be pushing really hard for a thorough investigation by non-locals. Maybe that's what's going on behind the scenes. I have no idea.

    Still, it amazes me that people are so willing to take what comes out of the mouths of Mexican officials at face value. If it had happened here in the US I'll bet there'd be a lot more skepticism, even though we have state of the art forensics and crime scene investigators. That's how weird this incident is.

    Anyway, we'll probably never know exactly what happened to Dave Goldberg in that little gym. Just file it under "mysterious incidents in Mexico" and move on I guess.

    I have no problem with alternative explanations, but it seems like the cartel explanation is among the more unlikely ones from what we know. If he was killed in a shootout in a hotel lobby or restaurant, then the cartel explanation would be more plausible. But if he did indeed die in the exercise room of this resort villa and was murdered, wouldn’t it be more plausible that he was killed by a random Mexican guy or maybe one of the hotel service personnel than the cartel going all the way into the exercise room of a resort just to kill one guy? Unless he was specifically on a cartel hit list or something, which seems unlikely.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Or the survivors got scared from the news of all the terrorism going on in the vicinity that day, and assumed it was homicide, and rushed back to the U.S., only to rethink it later.

    Or the cops who guard the resort rushed off to deal with terrorist attacks nearby leaving a worker or local to prey on a tourist opportunistically.

    Or a lot of possibilities.

    Like I said it would make a good 1980s psychological thriller.

  214. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    The entire thing just smells. People are talking about Occam's razor here. Well, 30 people have died on treadmills in a twelve year period according to research I looked up. Many of them died from heart attacks, sudden death, etc, but that isn't how Dave died. Syncope caused by an arrhythmia could cause a fall, but the severe occipital head wound that was the cause of death is highly unlikely to result from a fall on a treadmill. If someone did fall onto a hard edge it would be obvious from blood pattern analysis. Did the Mexican police bother to check up on that?

    Over 100,000 people have died violently in Mexico's drug war. If you're going to invoke Occam's razor, you should consider the above numbers.

    Personally, I have nothing at all invested either way. But I don't like BS. If Dave Goldberg was my brother I'd be pushing really hard for a thorough investigation by non-locals. Maybe that's what's going on behind the scenes. I have no idea.

    Still, it amazes me that people are so willing to take what comes out of the mouths of Mexican officials at face value. If it had happened here in the US I'll bet there'd be a lot more skepticism, even though we have state of the art forensics and crime scene investigators. That's how weird this incident is.

    Anyway, we'll probably never know exactly what happened to Dave Goldberg in that little gym. Just file it under "mysterious incidents in Mexico" and move on I guess.

    His brother saw the body, no? And the body was sent to the US for the funeral. Presumably if there was a major discrepancy between what the Mexican authorities were saying and what the family saw, the family would have said something. In other words, if there were bullet wounds or signs of serious trauma, then the family would probably take action.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The second headline in the NYT about cause of death, after the first one said collapsed while exercising, said "head trauma."
  215. @Anonymous
    His brother saw the body, no? And the body was sent to the US for the funeral. Presumably if there was a major discrepancy between what the Mexican authorities were saying and what the family saw, the family would have said something. In other words, if there were bullet wounds or signs of serious trauma, then the family would probably take action.

    The second headline in the NYT about cause of death, after the first one said collapsed while exercising, said “head trauma.”

  216. @Anonymous
    I have no problem with alternative explanations, but it seems like the cartel explanation is among the more unlikely ones from what we know. If he was killed in a shootout in a hotel lobby or restaurant, then the cartel explanation would be more plausible. But if he did indeed die in the exercise room of this resort villa and was murdered, wouldn't it be more plausible that he was killed by a random Mexican guy or maybe one of the hotel service personnel than the cartel going all the way into the exercise room of a resort just to kill one guy? Unless he was specifically on a cartel hit list or something, which seems unlikely.

    Or the survivors got scared from the news of all the terrorism going on in the vicinity that day, and assumed it was homicide, and rushed back to the U.S., only to rethink it later.

    Or the cops who guard the resort rushed off to deal with terrorist attacks nearby leaving a worker or local to prey on a tourist opportunistically.

    Or a lot of possibilities.

    Like I said it would make a good 1980s psychological thriller.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In that case, isn't it also possible that he suffered a heart attack while overexerting himself with some Mexican rentboys?
  217. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Sonny Liston was found dead in his bedroom. There was a broken bench or something and authorities said that they believed he had a heart attack or something and collapsed and broke the bench by falling on it with a lot of force. Others speculated that he died of a heroin overdose or was killed by the Mafia. I think to this day they’re not 100% sure how he died.

  218. @Steve Sailer
    Or the survivors got scared from the news of all the terrorism going on in the vicinity that day, and assumed it was homicide, and rushed back to the U.S., only to rethink it later.

    Or the cops who guard the resort rushed off to deal with terrorist attacks nearby leaving a worker or local to prey on a tourist opportunistically.

    Or a lot of possibilities.

    Like I said it would make a good 1980s psychological thriller.

    In that case, isn’t it also possible that he suffered a heart attack while overexerting himself with some Mexican rentboys?

  219. Art Deco is Internet pouting. It’s pretty funny to see.

  220. […] Dave goldberg died the same day as a cartel terrorist […]

  221. […] Dave goldberg died the same day as a cartel terrorist […]

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
The sources of America’s immigration problems—and a possible solution
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Hundreds of POWs may have been left to die in Vietnam, abandoned by their government—and our media.