The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"Creed"
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Apollo Creed, July 4, 1976

Creed is a worthy (if almost too respectful) addition to the canon of Rocky movies.

The basic pitch by writer-director Ryan Coogler (who has the name of a white quarterback, but is black) was that his star from Fruitvale Station, Michael B. Jordan, should play Adonis Creed, a heretofore unknown son of Rocky Balboa’s Muhammad Ali-like archrival and friend Apollo Creed (who died in the ring fighting the scientific Soviet champion Ivan Drago in Rocky IV). The youngster would talk the retired pugilist into being the Burgess Meredith-like trainer for his boxing career.

Within the sentimental looniness of the Rocky Universe, that’s obviously a terrific idea. It’s hard not to wonder why you didn’t think of it yourself.

Creed’s execution of the concept is a little on the nose, but it will have Rocky fans sniffling for the last ten minutes.

Sylvester Stallone is magnetic in the supporting role as old Rocky. The movie lights up every time Sly comes on screen.

And the boxing scenes are less unrealistic than in most of the earlier Rocky movies, in which Stallone’s chief defensive tactic was to block punches with his chin.

Adonis Creed, 2015

On the downside, I found Jordan’s leading man performance competent but a little opaque and colorless as Adonis Creed, or as the character prefers to be known due to his aversion to the spotlight, Donnie Johnson.

Coogler’s screenplay is more earnest than Stallone’s old Rocky scripts, which were usually — in part — clever, good-natured satires on the excesses of modern sports culture. Over time, as the sequels became more outlandish, they became more self-parodic. But there’s little self-satire in Creed.

Coogler’s conception is that Rocky is a great movie that deserves to taken seriously, which is of course correct. On the other hand, Stallone’s screenplays were always a volatile mix of his awareness that many people see him as a dullard because he can’t talk fast, while on the other hand he sees himself as a genius because he wrote the most influential screenplay since Casablanca.

It would have been interesting if Adonis Creed had articulated the burden of not having as much personality as his father, who had been the most famous man in the world. There’s plenty of time in this talky movie to get around to that subject, but it never seems to come up. (I suspect that being a different person than the most famous man in the world is probably a subject that actor Michael B. Jordan could put some heartfelt emotion into, having grown up with the same name as Muhammad Ali’s successor as the world’s #1 celebrity.)

Creed isn’t as funny as most of the Rocky movies. As a screenwriter, Stallone’s ability to be both wildly emotional and wryly bemused by the outlandishness of it all in the same movie was an unlikely combination. But it made for a lot of entertaining movies, such as Rocky III, which introduced the public to both Mr. T as the proto-Mike Tyson Clubber Lang and Hulk Hogan as the proto-Hulk Hogan.

In contrast, in Creed the nemesis is a tall, skilled Irish fighter from the docks of Liverpool, “Pretty” Ricky Conlan. He’s played by a genuine boxer, 6’3″ Tony Bellew, who is pretty decent with his lines on the occasions when you can understand what he’s saying.

On the other hand, “Pretty” Rick Conlan is a ho-hum name for an adversary compared to the names Stallone came up with for Rocky’s rivals, like Apollo Creed, Clubber Lang, and Ivan Drago.

I mean, consider what actually happened last weekend in heavyweight boxing: the long-reigning Ivan Drago-like champ Wladimir Klitschko was dethroned by a 6′-9″ Irish Traveler named Tyson Fury, a name that not even Stallone would have dared dream up.

But those are quibbles. Creed is a good movie.

 
• Tags: Movies 
Hide 105 CommentsLeave a Comment
105 Comments to ""Creed""
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Coogler’s conception is that Rocky is a great movie that deserves to taken seriously, which is of course correct.

    What is the bigger disappointment, all the crap Stallone put out after the original Rocky, or all of the crap Lucas put out after Star Wars four and five? Discuss.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Stallone was great until the early 90s. I think Cliffhanger was his last great movie. Then he made stinkers like Judge Dredd and Demolition Man and never recovered. The Rocky and Rambo movies, Over the Top, Tango and Cash, etc. that he made in the 80s were great.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. What do you guys think about San Bernadino?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't know, but I think we've reached a point where people seem to actively look forward to these mass shootings as an opportunity to identify the shooter as a representative of a political enemy.
    , @Anonymous
    Once I heard that there were *three* shooters, it was a strong hint. The next hint was that the killed were a man and a woman. The frequency of both events is incredibly low.

    Predictably: Syed Farook, an American citizen. Clearly, we need more American citizens like Farook. The gun control crowd is very disappointed...
    , @Lugash
    I was honestly thinking semi-crazy right wing, white mom/dad/son who developed a group grudge where they all worked together.. so it turns out to be one Syed Farook. The guy doesn't look like he plays for Team Jihad, so my guess about the reason will stay the same.
    , @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    What do the locals call their city? In all the on-air reporting , reporters pronounce "San BernaRdino" without its second R. (In Japanese TV reporting the city is called サンバーナーディーノ , with both R's pronounced, "Sambahnahdiino".) And while we're at it, how does BernaRdine Dohrn pronounce her forename?
    , @Anon7
    I think that big media might be spending a lot of time on a "mass shooting" that doesn't fit into their narrative of "guns erupt in mass shooting... domestic terrorism... all gun owners must admit their moral responsibility for deaths... only one way to stop the madness...".

    Usually, they don't say anything when the "fit" is poor, as in the case of the mass shooting at a playground in Texas just a week ago, in which 17 people were shot. A quick visit to a recent follow-up story, in which one of the suspects turned himself in, reveals why none of us have ever heard about this:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-suspect-in-nola-playground-shooting-turns-self-in/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. The comment about Ryan Coogler’s name made me laugh – it reminded me of Bill Simmons’ “Reggie Cleveland All Stars”, which was a list of athletes who were white but had a black guy’s name (like Reggie Cleveland) or vice versa.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  4. Only heard of Fury yesterday! Synchronicity! He was named after THAT Tyson. And why not? She was excellent in ROOTS.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  5. Any thoughts on Tyson Fury, the fantastically named gigantic Irish Traveller who just won the heavyweight boxing title from one of the Klitschkos this past weekend?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  6. Also,why is this nothing here? Oh wait I guess people in America have no.interest in an Irish champion fighter….boring.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    The US media lost interest in heavy weight boxing after big Slavs started winning.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. Stallone is the classic one-note screenplay genius: he wrote one of the greatest scripts of all time, but after that his creativity was really sapped.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  8. Sentimental Sly wading into the SJW pool? Helps the black guy beat the white. Might be more interesting the other way round!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    In ordinary circumstances, it does seem like gratuitous SJW-ness, but as Steve points out, this is sort of an obvious story in the Rocky universe.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. @JohnnyWalker123
    What do you guys think about San Bernadino?

    I don’t know, but I think we’ve reached a point where people seem to actively look forward to these mass shootings as an opportunity to identify the shooter as a representative of a political enemy.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. @jon

    Coogler’s conception is that Rocky is a great movie that deserves to taken seriously, which is of course correct.
     
    What is the bigger disappointment, all the crap Stallone put out after the original Rocky, or all of the crap Lucas put out after Star Wars four and five? Discuss.

    Stallone was great until the early 90s. I think Cliffhanger was his last great movie. Then he made stinkers like Judge Dredd and Demolition Man and never recovered. The Rocky and Rambo movies, Over the Top, Tango and Cash, etc. that he made in the 80s were great.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whorefinder
    Demolition Man was an awesome movie. It was one of Sandra Bullock's push-to-star dom films; had the last black -and-clearly-just-evil bad guys in Wesley Snipes---and Snipes's bad guy was hilarious and fun; and was both over-the-top enough to be a wink-wink spoof while still delivering on good action.

    Definitely one of those movies where, whenever they put it on TV and I flip through the channels, I leave it on.
    , @jimmyriddle
    And, of course, Escape To Victory - the best sports movie ever, with Michael Cain, Max von Sydow, Pelé(!), Bobby Moore, and a lot of then current English First Division players (Oswaldo Ardiles, John Wark..).

    They don't make films like that anymore.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    What do you guys think about San Bernadino?

    Once I heard that there were *three* shooters, it was a strong hint. The next hint was that the killed were a man and a woman. The frequency of both events is incredibly low.

    Predictably: Syed Farook, an American citizen. Clearly, we need more American citizens like Farook. The gun control crowd is very disappointed…

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    It seems that what set him of was being offered a ham sandwich at the Christmas party.

    They are gonna indite the ham sandwich for a hate crime! No need for a grand jury.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. How likely is Adonis as a black name in 2015?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    If your dad is named Apollo ...
    , @Anonymous
    I went to high school with a black guy named Adonis. I'm a millennial, class of '08.
    , @whorefinder
    Aeneas Williams.
    , @CJ
    A Filipino guy was the chief of the cleaners at a large building I was working in. When I first met him I asked him his name and he replied, "Adonis, but you can call me Don."
    , @Joe Joe
    don't forget former Florida State and NFL defensive lineman Orpheus Roye
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Watched the Fury fight; his karoake in the ring after the fight belonged in a Rocky movie.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  14. Pass. Michael B. Jordan annoys me. Affected. Fruitcake Station if you know what I mean.

    Saw In The Heart of the Sea- Ron Howard blew it. Incredible book that he turned into a below average movie. Thor can’t act either.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  15. San Bernadino shooter’s name is Farooq Saeed. He’s evidently Muslim.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  16. @Father O'Hara
    Sentimental Sly wading into the SJW pool? Helps the black guy beat the white. Might be more interesting the other way round!

    In ordinary circumstances, it does seem like gratuitous SJW-ness, but as Steve points out, this is sort of an obvious story in the Rocky universe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    In Rocky Balboa his love interest (or whatever) has a half-Jamaican son, and his coach is a black guy.

    I didn't think either was really necessary.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. @inertial
    How likely is Adonis as a black name in 2015?

    If your dad is named Apollo …

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    https://twitter.com/AdonisSuperman
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  18. @JohnnyWalker123
    What do you guys think about San Bernadino?

    I was honestly thinking semi-crazy right wing, white mom/dad/son who developed a group grudge where they all worked together.. so it turns out to be one Syed Farook. The guy doesn’t look like he plays for Team Jihad, so my guess about the reason will stay the same.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    The shooter looks like a typical Paki.

    https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/672226769043382273
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Anonymous
    Once I heard that there were *three* shooters, it was a strong hint. The next hint was that the killed were a man and a woman. The frequency of both events is incredibly low.

    Predictably: Syed Farook, an American citizen. Clearly, we need more American citizens like Farook. The gun control crowd is very disappointed...

    It seems that what set him of was being offered a ham sandwich at the Christmas party.

    They are gonna indite the ham sandwich for a hate crime! No need for a grand jury.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    No way. Lots of automatic rifles and handguns, black uniforms and face masks, particularly in a home of American Muslim, clearly implies preparation.

    Besides, when one goes crazy over an insult, he just does not find a girlfriend or sister to go with him on a near suicide mission within hours.

    , @Reg Cæsar


    It seems that what set him of was being offered a ham sandwich at the Christmas party.

     

    I think you're confusing him with Mama Cass, who was dead before he was born. Or maybe he's her metempsychotic second coming.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. @JohnnyWalker123
    What do you guys think about San Bernadino?

    What do the locals call their city? In all the on-air reporting , reporters pronounce “San BernaRdino” without its second R. (In Japanese TV reporting the city is called サンバーナーディーノ , with both R’s pronounced, “Sambahnahdiino”.) And while we’re at it, how does BernaRdine Dohrn pronounce her forename?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. @inertial
    How likely is Adonis as a black name in 2015?

    I went to high school with a black guy named Adonis. I’m a millennial, class of ’08.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Danindc
    Adonis Jordan was a point guard for Kansas in the 90's. How about that.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. @Lugash
    I was honestly thinking semi-crazy right wing, white mom/dad/son who developed a group grudge where they all worked together.. so it turns out to be one Syed Farook. The guy doesn't look like he plays for Team Jihad, so my guess about the reason will stay the same.

    The shooter looks like a typical Paki.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cryptogenic
    Nice upholstery.

    There's a totally disturbing trend going on here unparalleled anywhere else in the world you guys.

    #JeSuisWorkplace
    , @Lugash
    Looks like I'm 0-2. the LA Time's pic of him looked like a generic 'men with gold chains' . I guess I shouldn't stereotype terrorists.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  23. @Anonymous
    Stallone was great until the early 90s. I think Cliffhanger was his last great movie. Then he made stinkers like Judge Dredd and Demolition Man and never recovered. The Rocky and Rambo movies, Over the Top, Tango and Cash, etc. that he made in the 80s were great.

    Demolition Man was an awesome movie. It was one of Sandra Bullock’s push-to-star dom films; had the last black -and-clearly-just-evil bad guys in Wesley Snipes—and Snipes’s bad guy was hilarious and fun; and was both over-the-top enough to be a wink-wink spoof while still delivering on good action.

    Definitely one of those movies where, whenever they put it on TV and I flip through the channels, I leave it on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    Which movie predicted the future better? The venerated Blade Runner, or the terrible Demolition Man?

    Blade Runner: off world colonies, androids, lots of Asians, flying cars, rain in Los Angeles.

    Demolition Man: smoking is forbidden, health nazis are abundant, surveillance cameras are everywhere, everyone is being tracked continuously, culture has been reduced to appreciation of jingles and fast food, everyone has become a SWPL, though there is an abundant latino underclass hidden in the sewers. And there are self-driving cars.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. @inertial
    How likely is Adonis as a black name in 2015?

    Aeneas Williams.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  25. Like Star Wars, and, well every other movie reboot and franchise the focus shifts to a magical negro

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harold
    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. @The most deplorable one
    It seems that what set him of was being offered a ham sandwich at the Christmas party.

    They are gonna indite the ham sandwich for a hate crime! No need for a grand jury.

    No way. Lots of automatic rifles and handguns, black uniforms and face masks, particularly in a home of American Muslim, clearly implies preparation.

    Besides, when one goes crazy over an insult, he just does not find a girlfriend or sister to go with him on a near suicide mission within hours.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  27. @Anonymous
    I went to high school with a black guy named Adonis. I'm a millennial, class of '08.

    Adonis Jordan was a point guard for Kansas in the 90′s. How about that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There's also former NBA player God Shammgod:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod#Name
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  28. Apollo Creed’s cynical, tongue-in-cheek embrace of American patriotic pageantry was pretty funny:

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    You can't refer to that without including James Brown's great song 'Living in America'. Even Rocky is embarrassed. It's a patriotic classic, of course.

    https://youtu.be/UzDDJm27vmc
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. Apollo Creed was like Mohammed Ali + 50 IQ points. He was one of the smartest black characters in movies up to that point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    Carl Weathers was roughly the same size as a prime Muhammad Ali, and had a brief stint as an NFL player. I think Angelo Dundee said that if he had gotten to Weathers when he was younger, he could have trained him to be a legitimate heavyweight contender.

    And if Mr T was the proto-Mike Tyson, then Dolph Lundgren was the proto-Vitali Klitschko.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. @JohnnyWalker123
    What do you guys think about San Bernadino?

    I think that big media might be spending a lot of time on a “mass shooting” that doesn’t fit into their narrative of “guns erupt in mass shooting… domestic terrorism… all gun owners must admit their moral responsibility for deaths… only one way to stop the madness…”.

    Usually, they don’t say anything when the “fit” is poor, as in the case of the mass shooting at a playground in Texas just a week ago, in which 17 people were shot. A quick visit to a recent follow-up story, in which one of the suspects turned himself in, reveals why none of us have ever heard about this:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-suspect-in-nola-playground-shooting-turns-self-in/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Black gangbangers tend to have a low ratio of killed to wounded in their shootings. This New Orleans picnic gunfight wounded 17 but did kill anybody.

    There was video of a drive-by shooting about a year or two ago outside a Washington DC night club that I thought was going to be a big story but disappeared immediately. A lot of people wounded but not too many people killed.

    , @iSteveFan
    Ann Coulter's column is pretty good today. She released it as the San Bernardino shooting was unfolding. She noted how the NYT was saying how mostly white men are killing people in these shootings. She then went on to detail several mass shootings over the years that did not fit that narrative. It is a good read and I imagine many of you will scratch your head and say "I don't remember that".
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  31. @JohnnyWalker123
    The shooter looks like a typical Paki.

    https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/672226769043382273

    Nice upholstery.

    There’s a totally disturbing trend going on here unparalleled anywhere else in the world you guys.

    #JeSuisWorkplace

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  32. @JohnnyWalker123
    The shooter looks like a typical Paki.

    https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/672226769043382273

    Looks like I’m 0-2. the LA Time’s pic of him looked like a generic ‘men with gold chains’ . I guess I shouldn’t stereotype terrorists.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  33. @Anon7
    I think that big media might be spending a lot of time on a "mass shooting" that doesn't fit into their narrative of "guns erupt in mass shooting... domestic terrorism... all gun owners must admit their moral responsibility for deaths... only one way to stop the madness...".

    Usually, they don't say anything when the "fit" is poor, as in the case of the mass shooting at a playground in Texas just a week ago, in which 17 people were shot. A quick visit to a recent follow-up story, in which one of the suspects turned himself in, reveals why none of us have ever heard about this:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-suspect-in-nola-playground-shooting-turns-self-in/

    Black gangbangers tend to have a low ratio of killed to wounded in their shootings. This New Orleans picnic gunfight wounded 17 but did kill anybody.

    There was video of a drive-by shooting about a year or two ago outside a Washington DC night club that I thought was going to be a big story but disappeared immediately. A lot of people wounded but not too many people killed.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  34. @Danindc
    Adonis Jordan was a point guard for Kansas in the 90's. How about that.

    There’s also former NBA player God Shammgod:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod#Name

    Read More
    • Replies: @Danindc
    Yes, remember him well. He had a nice run in the NCAA tourney iirc
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  35. @Anon7
    I think that big media might be spending a lot of time on a "mass shooting" that doesn't fit into their narrative of "guns erupt in mass shooting... domestic terrorism... all gun owners must admit their moral responsibility for deaths... only one way to stop the madness...".

    Usually, they don't say anything when the "fit" is poor, as in the case of the mass shooting at a playground in Texas just a week ago, in which 17 people were shot. A quick visit to a recent follow-up story, in which one of the suspects turned himself in, reveals why none of us have ever heard about this:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-suspect-in-nola-playground-shooting-turns-self-in/

    Ann Coulter’s column is pretty good today. She released it as the San Bernardino shooting was unfolding. She noted how the NYT was saying how mostly white men are killing people in these shootings. She then went on to detail several mass shootings over the years that did not fit that narrative. It is a good read and I imagine many of you will scratch your head and say “I don’t remember that”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    Well, we now know that he was a home-grown, devout, Muslim terrorist.

    Someone screwed up and failed to get to the father in time.

    (For the sarcasm impaired, some of what I wrote above was sarcasm.)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. I liked the name of Rocky 6′s bad guy – Mason “The Line” Dixon.

    Thunderlips was good too.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  37. @Dave Pinsen
    Apollo Creed was like Mohammed Ali + 50 IQ points. He was one of the smartest black characters in movies up to that point.

    Carl Weathers was roughly the same size as a prime Muhammad Ali, and had a brief stint as an NFL player. I think Angelo Dundee said that if he had gotten to Weathers when he was younger, he could have trained him to be a legitimate heavyweight contender.

    And if Mr T was the proto-Mike Tyson, then Dolph Lundgren was the proto-Vitali Klitschko.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  38. @Anonymous
    There's also former NBA player God Shammgod:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod#Name

    Yes, remember him well. He had a nice run in the NCAA tourney iirc

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  39. My dad of 40s and 50s Los Angeles still calls it san berdoo but by 18 daughter going to school out there calls it San Beanernegro.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hunsdon
    I must have got it from Chandler, because I always reflexively thought of it as San Berdoo as well.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  40. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @iSteveFan
    Ann Coulter's column is pretty good today. She released it as the San Bernardino shooting was unfolding. She noted how the NYT was saying how mostly white men are killing people in these shootings. She then went on to detail several mass shootings over the years that did not fit that narrative. It is a good read and I imagine many of you will scratch your head and say "I don't remember that".

    Well, we now know that he was a home-grown, devout, Muslim terrorist.

    Someone screwed up and failed to get to the father in time.

    (For the sarcasm impaired, some of what I wrote above was sarcasm.)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  41. we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights–first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Valuev is just an acromegly freak I think. The Klitschkos and Fury are legitimately huge though.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    Valuev was 7 feet tall, and didn't seem to want to fight anyone top-tier. The Klitschkos took all comers for a decade. I didn't see the last fight, but I was surprised by the result. Endurance usually tails off with height - even the Klitschkos, who are in excellent condition, have trouble staying active over 12 rounds. Surprising a 6'9" fighter could do that.
    , @anonymous

    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights
     
    They are getting bigger. Back in the '70's George Foreman was considered a big, intimidating heavyweight boxer. Now he'd be of just so-so size and get bounced around by these larger, stronger fighters.
    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    The increasing size of heavyweight champions brings up an interesting question. At what point are there diminishing returns on size? Guys like Lennox Lewis and the Klitchko brothers benefited from their size (6'5" - 6'7", 240-250 lbs)., but how would they have stacked up against guys from the golden age of heavyweights? Guys like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Holmes, ranging in size from 5'11" 207lbs (Frazier) to 6'3" 220 (Foreman). There is the argument that increased size = more punching power, but Mike Tyson rarely weighed more than 220, and the guy rated to be the hardest punching heavyweight ever - Earnie Shavers - fought at about 210 in his prime. Bottom line is that guys like Lewis and the Klitchkos would probably have been outboxed and outclassed by any of those golden age champions. What comes to mind is 6'3" Muhammad Ali making the 6'7" Ernie Terrell look foolish in the ring.

    Now if you go back to the 1950's and earlier, when it seems that athletes and people in general were smaller, you have a different argument. I don't think Joe Louis (6'2" 200) or Rocky Marciano (5'10" 185) would have stood a chance against any of the heavyweight champs from the last 15 yrs. Well, except maybe Valuev, who should have lost that fight against a 48-yr-old Evander Holyfield.
    , @Anonymous
    They're all huge, but Tyson Fury at least looks like an ordinary white guy. Valuev and Klitschko look odd and exotic.
    , @Lex
    I thought only germanic North Europeans count as white in here.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  42. Stallone reminds me of Jimi Hendrix, who was not – let’s be real here for a moment – that much of a musician at heart, and who did not even really like music as much as the average musician, but who could remember ten or fifteen or twenty years later a single musical idea – heard two or three times on a transistor radio or at a friend’s house, maybe even only once – a single long-forgotten musical “lick”, as that type of musician calls it, and reproduce that interesting lick from the many in his mental library on command and at the right moment for the purpose of audience excitement (Nabokov had the same facility with reproducing, slightly altered, flashy and heart-tugging details from the nature-loving poets of the 19th and early twentieth century). When people have the kind of recall facility that Nabokov and Hendrix had they have no problem bringing to tears the sort of people in the audience who assume that the surprising expressed thought had a real connection to emotions, rather than to specialist semi-artistic technique. I didn’t know Hendrix or Nabokov, but I have known people who remind me of them, and I am certain that the emotional connection is frequently illusive. Comedians who have the facility I am talking about – think Bill Cosby raiding the Ricklesian ethnic-insult larder for his endless insults of his own kids on the Cosby show, Seinfeld ripping off Wodehouse expressions of wonder at awkward social climbers, Adam Sandler playing again and again the kind of post-Beatnik goof-off who made his Dad laugh so hard – are thought of as very very funny. Maybe they are. That being said, almost nobody, not even boxers, watches old boxing movies. They are almost – except for the quickly outmoded antiquarian technical interest – as unwatchable as, not that I have ever watched them, isolated old episodes of General Hospital or The Bold and the Beautiful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @cthulhu
    You are completely off base about Hendrix. Do you play guitar? Any competent rock/blues guitarist who has ever sat down and looked at what Hendrix did will conclude that he was one of a handful of true innovators for blues and rock guitar; he put stuff together differently than just about anybody else. He's not my favorite guitarist, but certainly in my top ten. And he basically lived music, keeping his guitar with him and playing it pretty much all the time.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  43. @oh its just me
    Like Star Wars, and, well every other movie reboot and franchise the focus shifts to a magical negro

    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Williams

    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.
     
    That explains the black Indiana Jones, the black Freddy Krueger, those black vampires in the Twilight flicks, the black Nick and Nora detective movies, the black Hellraiser villains and victims, all the black college kids in the American Pie flicks...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  44. Walberg: slow slow but good form
    Day-Lewis: pretty good as I recall
    Pitt: camera punches all he can’t throw a punch without opening up all the way. Spry feet tho. Those abs.
    Crowe: don’t recall
    Raging Bull I never.
    Stallone: amazingly bad in every single way it never made sense how he could look so bad when it’s just boxing.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  45. @Leftist conservative
    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights--first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    Valuev is just an acromegly freak I think. The Klitschkos and Fury are legitimately huge though.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  46. the long-reigning Ivan Drago-like champ Wladimir Klitschko was dethroned by a 6′-9″ Irish Traveler named Tyson Fury, a name that not even Stallone would have dared dream up.

    Yesterday someone asked me if I had heard that Klitschko had been beaten by someone with the great name Tyson Fury. I hadn’t, and, given his name, assumed he was black. Now that I learn he is an Irish Traveler I looked up some information on him. I read two Guardian articles, both of which were whinging about his bible-based ‘homophobia’. If he had been muslim they would, no doubt, be gushing over him. Someone should ask their beloved muslim baker her thoughts on homosexuals.

    By the way, Travelers, ‘pikeys’, are a ‘discriminated against’ group right? Still, they are white, so it doesn’t save them from Guardian opprobrium.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    By the way, Travelers, ‘pikeys’, are a ‘discriminated against’ group right? Still, they are white, so it doesn’t save them from Guardian opprobrium.
     
    Yes and no. They are extremely clannish first cousin marriers so have all the behaviors you'd expect from that - plus a few extra bronze age ones.

    So - discriminated against yes but not entirely unjustified, however they are below homosexuals in the PC hierarchy.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  47. The original Rocky movie was a pretty great film with interesting racial undertones that could never be expressed today. Italian American Stallone represented the last vestiges of White ethnic urban America confronting Black ascendency in American cities. When Rocky came out, it looked like the future of urban America would be of Black dominance. Things did not work out that way and today urban America has largely forsaken both the White ethnic working class, as well as Black people generally. The “Chocolate City” which once seemed a given, is now a cultural relic. One thing that is still striking about the original film is just how damn gritty it all is. It looks like something from the Great Depression not a film made less than 40 years ago.

    As a younger person, it was very easy for me to dismiss what my relatives said about Irish Travelers as simple bigotry, but after some personal experiences, I have no qualms in saying that they are basically anti-social, violent grifters. A very strange minority group that physically is indeterminable from the majority population, yet culturally is very distinct.

    Still, respect is given where it is due. Irish Travelers can throw down with the best of them.

    Love the anecdote of putting his hands in petrol everyday to make his fist hard. Hardcore. Violent morons, but hardcore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Big Joe Joyce does have a point. The Nevins of Longford can't fight.
    , @Hunsdon
    One of the best things about being smart is it's easier to get away with being soft. (I suppose the argument could be made that it's one of the worst things about being smart as well.)
    , @Rapparee

    "As a younger person, it was very easy for me to dismiss what my relatives said about Irish Travelers as simple bigotry, but after some personal experiences, I have no qualms in saying that they are basically anti-social, violent grifters."
     
    That's an important general lesson: "Feel free to think of your elders as possible bigots, but don't dismiss their stereotypes as complete nonsense until you've thoroughly investigated them yourself". An Irish-American barkeep I met recently had been visiting Ireland with a (non-Irish) American buddy a few years back. The pair stopped into a pub, not realizing it was chock-full of Travellers, and were pleased to discover a bevy of pretty young ladies eagerly flirting with them. A young man from the crowd came over to shoot the breeze; seeing that the foreigners seemed like good fellas, he gave them some helpful advice- "Stop talking to those girls, right now". The visiting bartender, whose Irish parents had warned him about Tinkers, instantly understood the situation, but found it very hard to convince his companion to take matters seriously. His pal thought the girls were genuinely interested in him, not comprehending that they just wanted their brothers to have an excuse to smash his face open. Some threatening lads eventually did come over trying to start a fight, but the friendly Tinker who had warned the visitors made it clear the Yanks were with him, so they moved on. If not for one family's (accurate) stereotype, the situation would have ended quite differently.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  48. @Leftist conservative
    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights--first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    Valuev was 7 feet tall, and didn’t seem to want to fight anyone top-tier. The Klitschkos took all comers for a decade. I didn’t see the last fight, but I was surprised by the result. Endurance usually tails off with height – even the Klitschkos, who are in excellent condition, have trouble staying active over 12 rounds. Surprising a 6’9″ fighter could do that.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  49. @Anonymous
    Stallone was great until the early 90s. I think Cliffhanger was his last great movie. Then he made stinkers like Judge Dredd and Demolition Man and never recovered. The Rocky and Rambo movies, Over the Top, Tango and Cash, etc. that he made in the 80s were great.

    And, of course, Escape To Victory – the best sports movie ever, with Michael Cain, Max von Sydow, Pelé(!), Bobby Moore, and a lot of then current English First Division players (Oswaldo Ardiles, John Wark..).

    They don’t make films like that anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve from Detroit
    Stallone in goal was both ugly and beautiful. My favorite line was Pele, after they had the escape right at their fingertips, convinces Stallone to play the second half merely by saying to Stallone: "Atch, we can win this...".

    Then they escape anyway, getting lost in the mob by covering up or changing out of their jerseys. Chokes me up thinking about it.

    I read where they are looking to do a remake. Can't wait.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  50. @Harold
    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.

    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.

    That explains the black Indiana Jones, the black Freddy Krueger, those black vampires in the Twilight flicks, the black Nick and Nora detective movies, the black Hellraiser villains and victims, all the black college kids in the American Pie flicks…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harold
    Ah, give them time?

    Fine! You win this round.

    In case you were unaware, I was just rephrasing what ‘Oh it's just me’ said in the form of Robert Conquest’s second law of politics.
    , @Hunsdon
    There is all that incessant talk of Idris Elba as the next James Bond. I wouldn't go see that movie. I would go see the exact same movie, if Idris was playing 008----or, to avoid "why the black man has to come after Bond?", as 006. As a matter of fact, I think a Idris Elba movie where he's a smooth British superspy would kick a lot of ass. I just don't want to see a black James Bond.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  51. @Steve Sailer
    If your dad is named Apollo ...
    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  52. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “…a 6′-9″ Irish Traveler named Tyson Fury, a name that not even Stallone would have dared dream up…”

    Don’t follow boxing and never heard of Tyson Fury, buy his wikipedia page has this:

    “…in September 2015 Fury expressed a desire to run as an independent candidate to be the UK Member of Parliament for Morecambe and Lunesdale, opining that the government were too focused on immigrants and not enough on homeless people and those with drug and alcohol problems. He also suggested that Britain should leave the European Union.”

    Irish Travelers for Ireland? Don’t tell the open-borders elite…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  53. @inertial
    How likely is Adonis as a black name in 2015?

    A Filipino guy was the chief of the cleaners at a large building I was working in. When I first met him I asked him his name and he replied, “Adonis, but you can call me Don.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  54. @Clifford Brown
    The original Rocky movie was a pretty great film with interesting racial undertones that could never be expressed today. Italian American Stallone represented the last vestiges of White ethnic urban America confronting Black ascendency in American cities. When Rocky came out, it looked like the future of urban America would be of Black dominance. Things did not work out that way and today urban America has largely forsaken both the White ethnic working class, as well as Black people generally. The "Chocolate City" which once seemed a given, is now a cultural relic. One thing that is still striking about the original film is just how damn gritty it all is. It looks like something from the Great Depression not a film made less than 40 years ago.

    As a younger person, it was very easy for me to dismiss what my relatives said about Irish Travelers as simple bigotry, but after some personal experiences, I have no qualms in saying that they are basically anti-social, violent grifters. A very strange minority group that physically is indeterminable from the majority population, yet culturally is very distinct.

    Still, respect is given where it is due. Irish Travelers can throw down with the best of them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eaLsvusF7s

    Love the anecdote of putting his hands in petrol everyday to make his fist hard. Hardcore. Violent morons, but hardcore.

    Big Joe Joyce does have a point. The Nevins of Longford can’t fight.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  55. For the sequel I hope they don’t have Adonis fight Ivan Drago’s son, that would be too much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex
    They could go transracial, swap races and use "if I can change you can change" line.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  56. @Daniel Williams

    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.
     
    That explains the black Indiana Jones, the black Freddy Krueger, those black vampires in the Twilight flicks, the black Nick and Nora detective movies, the black Hellraiser villains and victims, all the black college kids in the American Pie flicks...

    Ah, give them time?

    Fine! You win this round.

    In case you were unaware, I was just rephrasing what ‘Oh it’s just me’ said in the form of Robert Conquest’s second law of politics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vendetta
    I'm of the opinion you can still earn points for being clever even when you're wrong.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  57. @middle aged vet
    Stallone reminds me of Jimi Hendrix, who was not - let's be real here for a moment - that much of a musician at heart, and who did not even really like music as much as the average musician, but who could remember ten or fifteen or twenty years later a single musical idea - heard two or three times on a transistor radio or at a friend's house, maybe even only once - a single long-forgotten musical "lick", as that type of musician calls it, and reproduce that interesting lick from the many in his mental library on command and at the right moment for the purpose of audience excitement (Nabokov had the same facility with reproducing, slightly altered, flashy and heart-tugging details from the nature-loving poets of the 19th and early twentieth century). When people have the kind of recall facility that Nabokov and Hendrix had they have no problem bringing to tears the sort of people in the audience who assume that the surprising expressed thought had a real connection to emotions, rather than to specialist semi-artistic technique. I didn't know Hendrix or Nabokov, but I have known people who remind me of them, and I am certain that the emotional connection is frequently illusive. Comedians who have the facility I am talking about - think Bill Cosby raiding the Ricklesian ethnic-insult larder for his endless insults of his own kids on the Cosby show, Seinfeld ripping off Wodehouse expressions of wonder at awkward social climbers, Adam Sandler playing again and again the kind of post-Beatnik goof-off who made his Dad laugh so hard - are thought of as very very funny. Maybe they are. That being said, almost nobody, not even boxers, watches old boxing movies. They are almost - except for the quickly outmoded antiquarian technical interest - as unwatchable as, not that I have ever watched them, isolated old episodes of General Hospital or The Bold and the Beautiful.

    You are completely off base about Hendrix. Do you play guitar? Any competent rock/blues guitarist who has ever sat down and looked at what Hendrix did will conclude that he was one of a handful of true innovators for blues and rock guitar; he put stuff together differently than just about anybody else. He’s not my favorite guitarist, but certainly in my top ten. And he basically lived music, keeping his guitar with him and playing it pretty much all the time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alaska3636
    I have to agree. As a musician and guitarist of 10 years whose focus is on progressive jazz, Hendrix was a beast of sound. Guys like him come around very rarely. I'm actually not a huge fan of his music as it is very noisy (my ears are not that old, but come on); but, a lot of respect to his "sound".
    , @middle aged vet
    Hendrix had prodigious gifts, but dozens of guitarists before and after him had greater love for music. Sure, he had an immense level of immature excitement for music, which allowed him to be "groundbreaking" with his popular "electric guitar" technique, and of course if he lived longer he could have eventually, like guys who lived into their 30s and beyond like Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughan, expressed genuine human emotion in his music. Hendrix's acoustic work shows a humble guy with a deep desire to learn to love music, a humble guy who was willing to work hard at understanding the heart of music, and to one day become a real artist, and I wish he had lived decades longer to show what he would eventually have been capable of. But, compared to guys like Eddie Lang, Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt, and dozens of Delta Blues guitarists - not to mention the Segovias of the world - he was a precocious adolescent, nothing more. In my humble opinion, of course. Maybe I am wrong - music is immense, and maybe all our opinions are wrong...
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  58. In contrast, in Creed the nemesis is a tall, skilled Irish fighter from the docks of Liverpool, “Pretty” Ricky Conlan. He’s played by a genuine boxer, 6’3″ Tony Bellew, who is pretty decent with his lines on the occasions when you can understand what he’s saying.

    Gee, this part could have been played by Boy George 30 years ago!

    Creed isn’t as funny as most of the Rocky movies. As a screenwriter, Stallone’s ability to be both wildly emotional and wryly bemused by the outlandishness of it all in the same movie was an unlikely combination.

    Wait a minute… wasn’t Stallone the one originally offered “Beverly Hills Cop”, and scrubbed all the jokes from the script, rendering it pointless? Or do I have the wrong guy?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Liam "QuiGon Jinn/Rob Roy" Neeson was a tidy boxer in his youth, provincial am. champ. But he's only 6'-4", and just about ready for his free bus pass.
    Fury's corner (Da, Uncle Pete etc.) probably won the bout for their boy when they demanded the celebrated Klitschko "mattress" ring-covering be thinned down to less-than-swamp-like consistency, enabling the younger man's superior movement and fitness to get him out of range of that permanently-cocked Ukranian right. Made for a right boring scrap, though, even a tiny scrape under Vlad's eye wasn't significant damage.
    And I nearly fell out of bed when the other three opponents, outside the ring, marked the rounds .. fairly. I was actually waiting for the inevitable, with a bowed head, as were the cheering German crowd, who almost went into shock when the scores were totted.
    How the .. what the ..?? B-b-but this is Heavyweight Boxing, you can't do that!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  59. @The most deplorable one
    It seems that what set him of was being offered a ham sandwich at the Christmas party.

    They are gonna indite the ham sandwich for a hate crime! No need for a grand jury.

    It seems that what set him of was being offered a ham sandwich at the Christmas party.

    I think you’re confusing him with Mama Cass, who was dead before he was born. Or maybe he’s her metempsychotic second coming.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  60. At the time of the original Rocky movies, the idea that a white man could hold the World Heavyweight title seemed like fantasy – it had been dominated by African-Americans for decades.

    Now since the end of the Cold War and the rise of the East Europeans, the sport has been dominated by white men for decades, and the idea of a black man ‘reclaiming’ the title for Afro-America seems almost as fantastical.

    In both cases I feel like there’s a racial-pride subtext.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Good points. It's interesting that Sly was then creating a pro-white racial fantasy and now a multi-kulti one.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  61. The good thing about Traveller v. Russian fights is, you always know they’re on the level.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  62. Creed basically follows a Disney formula. Going in, I was already skeptical of the positive reviews, but it was actually worse than I would have predicted. I thought it would be kinda good for a sports movie, instead it was fairly typical, quality-wise. It is a crowd-pleaser though; the audience applauded at the end, which doesn’t happen much anymore.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  63. @Anonymous
    In ordinary circumstances, it does seem like gratuitous SJW-ness, but as Steve points out, this is sort of an obvious story in the Rocky universe.

    In Rocky Balboa his love interest (or whatever) has a half-Jamaican son, and his coach is a black guy.

    I didn’t think either was really necessary.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Besides, the "current heavyweight champion" in Rocky Balboa was black. Was it necessary? It seems like Sly has never heard of the Klitschko brothers or something.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  64. @reiner Tor
    In Rocky Balboa his love interest (or whatever) has a half-Jamaican son, and his coach is a black guy.

    I didn't think either was really necessary.

    Besides, the “current heavyweight champion” in Rocky Balboa was black. Was it necessary? It seems like Sly has never heard of the Klitschko brothers or something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He sort of already made that movie with Rocky IV where the champion villain was Ivan Drago.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  65. @Simon in London
    At the time of the original Rocky movies, the idea that a white man could hold the World Heavyweight title seemed like fantasy - it had been dominated by African-Americans for decades.

    Now since the end of the Cold War and the rise of the East Europeans, the sport has been dominated by white men for decades, and the idea of a black man 'reclaiming' the title for Afro-America seems almost as fantastical.

    In both cases I feel like there's a racial-pride subtext.

    Good points. It’s interesting that Sly was then creating a pro-white racial fantasy and now a multi-kulti one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    now a multi-kulti one
     
    But it's not multi-kulti.

    It's about Donnie Johnson appropriating/assimilating into Robert Balboa's culture (i.e. his "creed").

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  66. lol @ “colorless” performance

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  67. @whorefinder
    Demolition Man was an awesome movie. It was one of Sandra Bullock's push-to-star dom films; had the last black -and-clearly-just-evil bad guys in Wesley Snipes---and Snipes's bad guy was hilarious and fun; and was both over-the-top enough to be a wink-wink spoof while still delivering on good action.

    Definitely one of those movies where, whenever they put it on TV and I flip through the channels, I leave it on.

    Which movie predicted the future better? The venerated Blade Runner, or the terrible Demolition Man?

    Blade Runner: off world colonies, androids, lots of Asians, flying cars, rain in Los Angeles.

    Demolition Man: smoking is forbidden, health nazis are abundant, surveillance cameras are everywhere, everyone is being tracked continuously, culture has been reduced to appreciation of jingles and fast food, everyone has become a SWPL, though there is an abundant latino underclass hidden in the sewers. And there are self-driving cars.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  68. he sees himself as a genius because he wrote the most influential screenplay since Casablanca.

    Rocky is the most influential screenplay? Anybody care to explain here because I didn’t know it was that influential.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  69. @Reg Cæsar

    In contrast, in Creed the nemesis is a tall, skilled Irish fighter from the docks of Liverpool, “Pretty” Ricky Conlan. He’s played by a genuine boxer, 6’3″ Tony Bellew, who is pretty decent with his lines on the occasions when you can understand what he’s saying.
     
    Gee, this part could have been played by Boy George 30 years ago!

    Creed isn’t as funny as most of the Rocky movies. As a screenwriter, Stallone’s ability to be both wildly emotional and wryly bemused by the outlandishness of it all in the same movie was an unlikely combination.
     
    Wait a minute… wasn't Stallone the one originally offered "Beverly Hills Cop", and scrubbed all the jokes from the script, rendering it pointless? Or do I have the wrong guy?

    Liam “QuiGon Jinn/Rob Roy” Neeson was a tidy boxer in his youth, provincial am. champ. But he’s only 6′-4″, and just about ready for his free bus pass.
    Fury’s corner (Da, Uncle Pete etc.) probably won the bout for their boy when they demanded the celebrated Klitschko “mattress” ring-covering be thinned down to less-than-swamp-like consistency, enabling the younger man’s superior movement and fitness to get him out of range of that permanently-cocked Ukranian right. Made for a right boring scrap, though, even a tiny scrape under Vlad’s eye wasn’t significant damage.
    And I nearly fell out of bed when the other three opponents, outside the ring, marked the rounds .. fairly. I was actually waiting for the inevitable, with a bowed head, as were the cheering German crowd, who almost went into shock when the scores were totted.
    How the .. what the ..?? B-b-but this is Heavyweight Boxing, you can’t do that!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  70. It would have been interesting if Adonis Creed had articulated the burden of not having as much personality as his father, who had been the most famous man in the world.

    His actual burden of seeming to have all the advantages in the world (the champ’s genes and wealth through his wife) when in reality he was denied many of the advantages his father enjoyed (i.e. no actual father to raise him, trainers rejecting him out-of-hand, his talents he got from those genes increasingly seen as obsolete) speaks well to the actual burdens of his generation.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  71. @reiner Tor
    Good points. It's interesting that Sly was then creating a pro-white racial fantasy and now a multi-kulti one.

    now a multi-kulti one

    But it’s not multi-kulti.

    It’s about Donnie Johnson appropriating/assimilating into Robert Balboa’s culture (i.e. his “creed”).

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Multi-kulti = pro-POC
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  72. @Leftist conservative
    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights--first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights

    They are getting bigger. Back in the ’70′s George Foreman was considered a big, intimidating heavyweight boxer. Now he’d be of just so-so size and get bounced around by these larger, stronger fighters.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  73. @Leftist conservative
    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights--first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    The increasing size of heavyweight champions brings up an interesting question. At what point are there diminishing returns on size? Guys like Lennox Lewis and the Klitchko brothers benefited from their size (6’5″ – 6’7″, 240-250 lbs)., but how would they have stacked up against guys from the golden age of heavyweights? Guys like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Holmes, ranging in size from 5’11″ 207lbs (Frazier) to 6’3″ 220 (Foreman). There is the argument that increased size = more punching power, but Mike Tyson rarely weighed more than 220, and the guy rated to be the hardest punching heavyweight ever – Earnie Shavers – fought at about 210 in his prime. Bottom line is that guys like Lewis and the Klitchkos would probably have been outboxed and outclassed by any of those golden age champions. What comes to mind is 6’3″ Muhammad Ali making the 6’7″ Ernie Terrell look foolish in the ring.

    Now if you go back to the 1950′s and earlier, when it seems that athletes and people in general were smaller, you have a different argument. I don’t think Joe Louis (6’2″ 200) or Rocky Marciano (5’10″ 185) would have stood a chance against any of the heavyweight champs from the last 15 yrs. Well, except maybe Valuev, who should have lost that fight against a 48-yr-old Evander Holyfield.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous

    the guy rated to be the hardest punching heavyweight ever – Earnie Shavers – fought at about 210 in his prime.
     
    Shavers was knocked out in the first round by 'Irish' Jerry Quarry who usually weighed around 200. Lewis and Klitschko and the new heavyweights are a new breed, big guys who aren't clumsy but are well coordinated.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  74. @L7's
    My dad of 40s and 50s Los Angeles still calls it san berdoo but by 18 daughter going to school out there calls it San Beanernegro.

    I must have got it from Chandler, because I always reflexively thought of it as San Berdoo as well.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  75. I can’t count the times I would read that Johnson, Louis, Ali, etc, meant the heavyweight champion was the symbol of physical supremacy.

    Funny thing, with the advent of the Klitschkos you never heard this anymore.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  76. @Clifford Brown
    The original Rocky movie was a pretty great film with interesting racial undertones that could never be expressed today. Italian American Stallone represented the last vestiges of White ethnic urban America confronting Black ascendency in American cities. When Rocky came out, it looked like the future of urban America would be of Black dominance. Things did not work out that way and today urban America has largely forsaken both the White ethnic working class, as well as Black people generally. The "Chocolate City" which once seemed a given, is now a cultural relic. One thing that is still striking about the original film is just how damn gritty it all is. It looks like something from the Great Depression not a film made less than 40 years ago.

    As a younger person, it was very easy for me to dismiss what my relatives said about Irish Travelers as simple bigotry, but after some personal experiences, I have no qualms in saying that they are basically anti-social, violent grifters. A very strange minority group that physically is indeterminable from the majority population, yet culturally is very distinct.

    Still, respect is given where it is due. Irish Travelers can throw down with the best of them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eaLsvusF7s

    Love the anecdote of putting his hands in petrol everyday to make his fist hard. Hardcore. Violent morons, but hardcore.

    One of the best things about being smart is it’s easier to get away with being soft. (I suppose the argument could be made that it’s one of the worst things about being smart as well.)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  77. @Daniel Williams

    Any movie franchise not explicitly pro-white sooner or later becomes negrofied.
     
    That explains the black Indiana Jones, the black Freddy Krueger, those black vampires in the Twilight flicks, the black Nick and Nora detective movies, the black Hellraiser villains and victims, all the black college kids in the American Pie flicks...

    There is all that incessant talk of Idris Elba as the next James Bond. I wouldn’t go see that movie. I would go see the exact same movie, if Idris was playing 008—-or, to avoid “why the black man has to come after Bond?”, as 006. As a matter of fact, I think a Idris Elba movie where he’s a smooth British superspy would kick a lot of ass. I just don’t want to see a black James Bond.

    Read More
    • Agree: Vendetta
    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    Would you go to see Idris Elba if he played Annie?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  78. Any comments on Jordan’s physique? Sure has come a long way from the days of the Wire…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  79. @jimmyriddle
    And, of course, Escape To Victory - the best sports movie ever, with Michael Cain, Max von Sydow, Pelé(!), Bobby Moore, and a lot of then current English First Division players (Oswaldo Ardiles, John Wark..).

    They don't make films like that anymore.

    Stallone in goal was both ugly and beautiful. My favorite line was Pele, after they had the escape right at their fingertips, convinces Stallone to play the second half merely by saying to Stallone: “Atch, we can win this…”.

    Then they escape anyway, getting lost in the mob by covering up or changing out of their jerseys. Chokes me up thinking about it.

    I read where they are looking to do a remake. Can’t wait.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  80. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:

    The success of a movie is all about the timing and I’m afraid that this film came along at the wrong time. The kind of white guy who loves Rocky movies is, shall we say, at peak Negro, and won’t appreciate Rocky surrogate fathering a black guy. I think I’ll catch it on DVD….

    Re Pretty Ricky, he might be named after the great Billy Conn, who very nearly beat Joe Louis in 1941?

    Stallone is a total boxing master historian freak. Everyone says that he modeled Rocky after Marciano, and Mickey after Marciano’s trainer Charley Goldman, which of course is true, but I think he also threw in Carmine Basilio’s fights with Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson could never put Basilio down, even though he was much the better boxer. Not a great boxer but he would not go down. Basilio had grit like no other.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  81. WhatEvvs [AKA "Internet Addict"] says:
    @Hunsdon
    There is all that incessant talk of Idris Elba as the next James Bond. I wouldn't go see that movie. I would go see the exact same movie, if Idris was playing 008----or, to avoid "why the black man has to come after Bond?", as 006. As a matter of fact, I think a Idris Elba movie where he's a smooth British superspy would kick a lot of ass. I just don't want to see a black James Bond.

    Would you go to see Idris Elba if he played Annie?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  82. @Harold
    Ah, give them time?

    Fine! You win this round.

    In case you were unaware, I was just rephrasing what ‘Oh it's just me’ said in the form of Robert Conquest’s second law of politics.

    I’m of the opinion you can still earn points for being clever even when you’re wrong.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  83. Irish Travellers are like a telescope into the bronze age.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  84. @Father O'Hara
    Also,why is this nothing here? Oh wait I guess people in America have no.interest in an Irish champion fighter....boring.

    The US media lost interest in heavy weight boxing after big Slavs started winning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    I don't know, MMA/UFC is pretty much lily-white.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  85. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Harold

    the long-reigning Ivan Drago-like champ Wladimir Klitschko was dethroned by a 6′-9″ Irish Traveler named Tyson Fury, a name that not even Stallone would have dared dream up.
     
    Yesterday someone asked me if I had heard that Klitschko had been beaten by someone with the great name Tyson Fury. I hadn’t, and, given his name, assumed he was black. Now that I learn he is an Irish Traveler I looked up some information on him. I read two Guardian articles, both of which were whinging about his bible-based ‘homophobia’. If he had been muslim they would, no doubt, be gushing over him. Someone should ask their beloved muslim baker her thoughts on homosexuals.

    By the way, Travelers, ‘pikeys’, are a ‘discriminated against’ group right? Still, they are white, so it doesn’t save them from Guardian opprobrium.

    By the way, Travelers, ‘pikeys’, are a ‘discriminated against’ group right? Still, they are white, so it doesn’t save them from Guardian opprobrium.

    Yes and no. They are extremely clannish first cousin marriers so have all the behaviors you’d expect from that – plus a few extra bronze age ones.

    So – discriminated against yes but not entirely unjustified, however they are below homosexuals in the PC hierarchy.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  86. @cthulhu
    You are completely off base about Hendrix. Do you play guitar? Any competent rock/blues guitarist who has ever sat down and looked at what Hendrix did will conclude that he was one of a handful of true innovators for blues and rock guitar; he put stuff together differently than just about anybody else. He's not my favorite guitarist, but certainly in my top ten. And he basically lived music, keeping his guitar with him and playing it pretty much all the time.

    I have to agree. As a musician and guitarist of 10 years whose focus is on progressive jazz, Hendrix was a beast of sound. Guys like him come around very rarely. I’m actually not a huge fan of his music as it is very noisy (my ears are not that old, but come on); but, a lot of respect to his “sound”.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  87. @reiner Tor
    Besides, the "current heavyweight champion" in Rocky Balboa was black. Was it necessary? It seems like Sly has never heard of the Klitschko brothers or something.

    He sort of already made that movie with Rocky IV where the champion villain was Ivan Drago.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  88. @Leftist conservative
    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights--first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    They’re all huge, but Tyson Fury at least looks like an ordinary white guy. Valuev and Klitschko look odd and exotic.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  89. @anon
    The US media lost interest in heavy weight boxing after big Slavs started winning.

    I don’t know, MMA/UFC is pretty much lily-white.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    fair point
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  90. A constant criticism of the Rocky films was, you guessed it, “Racism.” I once read a column around 1980 which claimed Hollywood would never make a movie with an underdog black challenger dethroning a white champion.

    The same people declared a white man would never win the heavyweight title again. Stallone was supposedly making a wish fulfillment for those Evil White Racists.

    By the way, I never liked Stallone all that much.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  91. @Desiderius

    now a multi-kulti one
     
    But it's not multi-kulti.

    It's about Donnie Johnson appropriating/assimilating into Robert Balboa's culture (i.e. his "creed").

    Multi-kulti = pro-POC

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Multi-kulti = pro-POC
     
    No, multi-kulti is anti-white. Creed is a POC acting pro-white/pro-traditional American culture, and even, in this case if you've seen the original Rocky and caught the subtext, pro-Christian (Rocky's credo).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  92. @Clifford Brown
    The original Rocky movie was a pretty great film with interesting racial undertones that could never be expressed today. Italian American Stallone represented the last vestiges of White ethnic urban America confronting Black ascendency in American cities. When Rocky came out, it looked like the future of urban America would be of Black dominance. Things did not work out that way and today urban America has largely forsaken both the White ethnic working class, as well as Black people generally. The "Chocolate City" which once seemed a given, is now a cultural relic. One thing that is still striking about the original film is just how damn gritty it all is. It looks like something from the Great Depression not a film made less than 40 years ago.

    As a younger person, it was very easy for me to dismiss what my relatives said about Irish Travelers as simple bigotry, but after some personal experiences, I have no qualms in saying that they are basically anti-social, violent grifters. A very strange minority group that physically is indeterminable from the majority population, yet culturally is very distinct.

    Still, respect is given where it is due. Irish Travelers can throw down with the best of them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eaLsvusF7s

    Love the anecdote of putting his hands in petrol everyday to make his fist hard. Hardcore. Violent morons, but hardcore.

    “As a younger person, it was very easy for me to dismiss what my relatives said about Irish Travelers as simple bigotry, but after some personal experiences, I have no qualms in saying that they are basically anti-social, violent grifters.”

    That’s an important general lesson: “Feel free to think of your elders as possible bigots, but don’t dismiss their stereotypes as complete nonsense until you’ve thoroughly investigated them yourself“. An Irish-American barkeep I met recently had been visiting Ireland with a (non-Irish) American buddy a few years back. The pair stopped into a pub, not realizing it was chock-full of Travellers, and were pleased to discover a bevy of pretty young ladies eagerly flirting with them. A young man from the crowd came over to shoot the breeze; seeing that the foreigners seemed like good fellas, he gave them some helpful advice- “Stop talking to those girls, right now“. The visiting bartender, whose Irish parents had warned him about Tinkers, instantly understood the situation, but found it very hard to convince his companion to take matters seriously. His pal thought the girls were genuinely interested in him, not comprehending that they just wanted their brothers to have an excuse to smash his face open. Some threatening lads eventually did come over trying to start a fight, but the friendly Tinker who had warned the visitors made it clear the Yanks were with him, so they moved on. If not for one family’s (accurate) stereotype, the situation would have ended quite differently.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  93. @reiner Tor
    Multi-kulti = pro-POC

    Multi-kulti = pro-POC

    No, multi-kulti is anti-white. Creed is a POC acting pro-white/pro-traditional American culture, and even, in this case if you’ve seen the original Rocky and caught the subtext, pro-Christian (Rocky’s credo).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    The climactic line in the movie is Creed's response to Rocky when Rocky asks him what Creed has to prove by going back out in the ring for the final round (and risking the fate of his father, for which Rocky still blames himself). Creed says, "that I'm not a mistake."

    Obviously, for him personally that means that his father didn't make a mistake in conceiving him in the first place, but it's also symbolic of the place of African-Americans within the American Story/the American Creed (also symbolized by the trunks he's wearing), at a time when there is a temptation on all sides to consider bringing Africans to these shores a mistake in the first place.

    What positive role can they play now in the American Story? The story of Creed suggests one possibility - by embracing the values that were once, and could be again, common to all Americans, they can help the nation, and especially tired old whites tempted to imagine their best days are in the past, to recapture their lost virility and muster the courage to fight our way through the cancers in our body politic.

    Similar theme in "Hamilton."

    See Glenn Loury's take on the Black Autumn. There are, still, patriotic blacks.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “I mean, consider what actually happened last weekend in heavyweight boxing: the long-reigning Ivan Drago-like champ Wladimir Klitschko was dethroned by a 6′-9″ Irish Traveler named Tyson Fury, a name that not even Stallone would have dared dream up.”

    I watched the Klitschko Vs Fury fight. I scored it to Fury based on his superior aggressiveness and ring control. He didn’s lend more effective strikes than Klitscho, but he lended slightly more total strikes and moved forward more. In a fight as close as this, that counted for the win.

    The fight, like almost every other Klitschko fight, was a snooze fest. The Klitschko bros are some of the most boring boxers ever, because their entire style revolves around evasive footwork using pivots and the jab. Klitschko will jab, wait for his opponent to committ, then pivot AS he moves in and jabs him again. If the opponent gets too close, he clinches and uses kidney punches or hooks to try to hit the chin. His style is greatly aided by his huge reach. He almost never uses combinations, seldom power punches or uses body shots to make his opponent lower his hands to try the KO. He also doesen’t feint much, prefering to simply wait his opponent to committ and then jab him. He is a boring boxer, but you got to give him credit for being perhaps the most technical defensive boxer there is. He is an absolute marvel to watch from a defensive technical point, but that is not what sells tickets. Also, because Klitschko is such a technician when it comes to defensive boxing and counter-striking, he has become pretty much impossible to KO over the past several years as his skills have become masterful. The best Fury could hope for was a decision.

    Frankly, the fight that eveyone is excited about is the José Aldo Vs Conor McGregor(another Irishman) this December 12. McGregor is the first to realistically stand a chance in a long time, due to his size, reach, counter-striking precision and also that he is a southpaw. But there is a reason why Aldo is one of the top 2 pound-for-pound fighters in all of MMA(the other one being Jon Jones) and why he has won 23 fights in a row including against 3 champions: he is a Muay Boran master, a jiu-master master, an Olympic caliber wrestler, is freakishly fast and explosive and has an iron chin. Above all, he is very calm, very diligent, never panics and is a very, very clever fighter who is notorious for deceiving his opponents and giving them the unexpected.

    I am supporting Aldo in this fight because he is the classiest gentleman you’ll ever see, while McGregor is a foul-mouthed, self-obsessed jerk.

    It completely shatters the stereotype that white people are civilized and that non-whites are uncivilized savages.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  95. @Desiderius

    Multi-kulti = pro-POC
     
    No, multi-kulti is anti-white. Creed is a POC acting pro-white/pro-traditional American culture, and even, in this case if you've seen the original Rocky and caught the subtext, pro-Christian (Rocky's credo).

    The climactic line in the movie is Creed’s response to Rocky when Rocky asks him what Creed has to prove by going back out in the ring for the final round (and risking the fate of his father, for which Rocky still blames himself). Creed says, “that I’m not a mistake.”

    Obviously, for him personally that means that his father didn’t make a mistake in conceiving him in the first place, but it’s also symbolic of the place of African-Americans within the American Story/the American Creed (also symbolized by the trunks he’s wearing), at a time when there is a temptation on all sides to consider bringing Africans to these shores a mistake in the first place.

    What positive role can they play now in the American Story? The story of Creed suggests one possibility – by embracing the values that were once, and could be again, common to all Americans, they can help the nation, and especially tired old whites tempted to imagine their best days are in the past, to recapture their lost virility and muster the courage to fight our way through the cancers in our body politic.

    Similar theme in “Hamilton.”

    See Glenn Loury’s take on the Black Autumn. There are, still, patriotic blacks.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  96. @Desiderius
    I don't know, MMA/UFC is pretty much lily-white.

    fair point

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  97. @cthulhu
    You are completely off base about Hendrix. Do you play guitar? Any competent rock/blues guitarist who has ever sat down and looked at what Hendrix did will conclude that he was one of a handful of true innovators for blues and rock guitar; he put stuff together differently than just about anybody else. He's not my favorite guitarist, but certainly in my top ten. And he basically lived music, keeping his guitar with him and playing it pretty much all the time.

    Hendrix had prodigious gifts, but dozens of guitarists before and after him had greater love for music. Sure, he had an immense level of immature excitement for music, which allowed him to be “groundbreaking” with his popular “electric guitar” technique, and of course if he lived longer he could have eventually, like guys who lived into their 30s and beyond like Clapton and Stevie Ray Vaughan, expressed genuine human emotion in his music. Hendrix’s acoustic work shows a humble guy with a deep desire to learn to love music, a humble guy who was willing to work hard at understanding the heart of music, and to one day become a real artist, and I wish he had lived decades longer to show what he would eventually have been capable of. But, compared to guys like Eddie Lang, Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt, and dozens of Delta Blues guitarists – not to mention the Segovias of the world – he was a precocious adolescent, nothing more. In my humble opinion, of course. Maybe I am wrong – music is immense, and maybe all our opinions are wrong…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  98. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    The increasing size of heavyweight champions brings up an interesting question. At what point are there diminishing returns on size? Guys like Lennox Lewis and the Klitchko brothers benefited from their size (6'5" - 6'7", 240-250 lbs)., but how would they have stacked up against guys from the golden age of heavyweights? Guys like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and Holmes, ranging in size from 5'11" 207lbs (Frazier) to 6'3" 220 (Foreman). There is the argument that increased size = more punching power, but Mike Tyson rarely weighed more than 220, and the guy rated to be the hardest punching heavyweight ever - Earnie Shavers - fought at about 210 in his prime. Bottom line is that guys like Lewis and the Klitchkos would probably have been outboxed and outclassed by any of those golden age champions. What comes to mind is 6'3" Muhammad Ali making the 6'7" Ernie Terrell look foolish in the ring.

    Now if you go back to the 1950's and earlier, when it seems that athletes and people in general were smaller, you have a different argument. I don't think Joe Louis (6'2" 200) or Rocky Marciano (5'10" 185) would have stood a chance against any of the heavyweight champs from the last 15 yrs. Well, except maybe Valuev, who should have lost that fight against a 48-yr-old Evander Holyfield.

    the guy rated to be the hardest punching heavyweight ever – Earnie Shavers – fought at about 210 in his prime.

    Shavers was knocked out in the first round by ‘Irish’ Jerry Quarry who usually weighed around 200. Lewis and Klitschko and the new heavyweights are a new breed, big guys who aren’t clumsy but are well coordinated.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  99. “Tyson Fury” sounds like a vacuum cleaner to me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harold
    Say it to his face!

    (Is this the sort of high-brow comment you like Steve?)

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  100. @Kylie
    "Tyson Fury" sounds like a vacuum cleaner to me.

    Say it to his face!

    (Is this the sort of high-brow comment you like Steve?)

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  101. @Leftist conservative
    we may be entering the era of the huge white european heavyweights--first Valuev, at about 6 ft 11, then the Klitschko brothers, at something like 6 ft 6 or 7 or so, and now tyson fury at 6 ft 9. All from Europe.

    Curious.

    I thought only germanic North Europeans count as white in here.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  102. @emilio zapata
    For the sequel I hope they don't have Adonis fight Ivan Drago's son, that would be too much.

    They could go transracial, swap races and use “if I can change you can change” line.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  103. @inertial
    How likely is Adonis as a black name in 2015?

    don’t forget former Florida State and NFL defensive lineman Orpheus Roye

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  104. @FredR
    Apollo Creed's cynical, tongue-in-cheek embrace of American patriotic pageantry was pretty funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mif9s0FkICA

    You can’t refer to that without including James Brown’s great song ‘Living in America’. Even Rocky is embarrassed. It’s a patriotic classic, of course.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  105. […] Sailer gives a good review of Creed tying it into earlier iterations of the  Rocky saga, but I think the politics of the […]

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The major media overlooked Communist spies and Madoff’s fraud. What are they missing today?
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored