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College Admissions Advice from a Former Employee of Rick Singer
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For what it’s worth, here in the iSteve comments section is a comment from “Former affiliate/associate of Singer’s company:”

Steve, I have read and admired your blog for a while but have never commented. In a twist of fate that is wildly coincidental, however, I am sufficiently moved to report that, well, until yesterday, I did a lot of work for Singer’s company; I know, personally, many of the people named in the complaint – the parents, students. I have been to their homes.

I am not going to get into detail about what I know, though I should say that I know a hell of a lot more than has been reported. I will also say that, with a few minor exceptions, the families were exceedingly gracious to me, as were other staff members. And that the pay (in most instances) was quite good, and that Rick Singer and the other employees were (barring the occasional bit of friction, which is to be expected at any company) more or less decent to me. Singer’s alleged tendency toward corruption apparently did not extend to screwing over the people who worked for him – though it could be that he was scared that I, or someone else, might try to get him in trouble.

I wish to do a couple of things. The first is to point to an error of fact in your post. The students who got in through the athletic “side door,” *never intended to actually play sports in college*. You are simply wrong there. As the complaint makes clear, once they get in, they just join the general student body, attend the regular student – that is, the non-athlete – orientation, etc. No one, apparently, is going to come hunt you down and ask you to play – particularly if the coach was in on the scam of admitting you. When a parent would inquire about whether this would raise any suspicions, Singer would simply tell them to claim that the student had been injured.

The complaint – the articles about the scandal – refer to the “side door.” But in fact we helped students to get into school via any number of side doors, not all of them criminal. For example. few people might know this, but your chances of getting into a given school can be greater or lesser depending upon the intended major you list on your application. Obviously, there are instances in which a student has to apply *to a specific* school, like USC’s Marshall or Viterbi. So you’d better not even try to get into those schools unless you have a very impressive resume.

But there are also instances in which simply announcing that you intend major in, say, economics at the College of Arts and Sciences or whatever will decrease your odds of getting in as against, say, announcing that you intend to major in sociology, or psychology, or religious studies. Because most students today are drones and automata with little to no genuine intellectual curiosity or interest in the glories of Western civilization, they, for the most part, want to major in some type of econ, business, or computer science. So a lot of what I did was help students to present a picture of themselves – through essays, extracurriculars, etc. – in which they could plausibly claim to want to major in some unpopular yet to me (I am humanist), quite interesting major like gender studies, philosophy, or soc or psych. Once they were admitted, they’d simply begin taking whatever classes they wanted to, and then, as a sophomore, declare the major they really wanted to major in.

If the student was a guy, we’d have him apply as an intended psych major, because psych departments are heavily female. And if it was a girl, we’d choose soc, because soc is relaively male-dominated (although, of course, not nearly so much as something like engineering is). On occasion, we’d have a girl with high math scores apply to a STEM major, and work the hell out of the girl-in-STEM angle. This would often work, provided she did have some credentials.

There were any number of possibilities along these lines, and I could give you many examples of this lesser “side door” practice from among the students named in the complaint.

Which brings me to my next point, which is about scamming the affirmative action system.

You have asserted any number of times on this blog that whites tend to be pretty honest when it comes to not lying about their race, the better to acquire Intersectional Pokemon points.

In fact – in my experience with Singer’s company, at least – they do it all the time. I could tell you many, many stories. Many times, I have seen white students apply as black and gay. And I have helped the children of white billionaires get into Ivy League schools by claiming to have some obscure ethnic identity, with “underprivileged” members of which groups they’d claim to have done all manner of heroic humanitarian work.

Let it be said that whites are probably not as honest about these things as you think.

Singer’s company worked with many hundreds of kids each year, only a small proportion of whom employed the $500,000 side-door technique.

Much more common was the side door of intending to pursue a less selective major – because, like any other bureaucracy, these departments are self-perpetuating institutions that seek to advance their interests, and, as such, need to enroll students; major and minor but at any rate unfalsifiable embellishments (claiming to have been involved with one or another extracurricular activity that, in fact, one was not involved with); and playing the affirmative-action card – even when one was white and had no legitimate claim to belong to a given identity group.

I will say, finally, that in most cases, the system worked. The kids who got into Ivies were generally very intelligent and accomplished students with high test scores; in cases where the grades, scores, and activities were not up to par, they didn’t get in, affirmative action fraud and cake-major selection notwithstanding. The regressed-to-the-mean-fuck-up children of plutocrats, on the other hand, usually ended up at TCU or ASU, which, if, anything, is only a notch or two above where they properly belong. (Granted, many poor kids of similar ability and accomplishment are not headed for college *at all*, but that is another matter. Part of Singer’s appeal was that he’d get your kid in at least somewhere, although anyone with two brain cells to rub together could probably manage to finagle this task on their own.)

At Singer’s company, I saw any number of highly accomplished students with SAT scores of over 1500 get rejected from, say, Dartmouth, much to their chagrin. Their parents, I imagine, were particularly chagrined, having heard so much about Singer’s miracle-working.

The kids we’re reading about in the news are a select few, whose parents were willing to shell out for the deluxe “side door” treatment. And, anyway, the supply of this is of course limited. As one of the coaches said in the complaint – “I have to reserve a few spaces for actual water polo players.”

 
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  1. JimD says:

    I think it’s worth a lot – fascinating comment.

    • Agree: brioche
  2. Rational says:

    MORAL OF THIS STORY—EVERBODY IN USA IS A SCAMMER, SO WHY NOT ME?

    My main attack against liberalism and alienism is that they are immoral and evil. Only an evil govt. will flood this nation with aliens, promote affirmative action, and other frauds. As the govt. and academia and media promote these evils (liberalism), the entire moral tone of the nation goes down.

    The public thinks, if they are all evil, why am I a sucker to play by the rules of a criminal govt. and the crooked academia. Why study hard, when scams is what matters.

    This article proves it.

  3. Spud Boy says:

    These little problems will all be solved after the Democrats force through free college and take over complete control of the admissions process.

    • LOL: Cato, Bubba
    • Replies: @Clyde
    , @tr
  4. Ed says:

    The elites schools have signaled what they prize, hefty donations, a social crusader or downtrodden blacks or other favorite identity groups. Since people covet elite status for themselves and their kids they’ll do anything to satisfy this demand.

  5. Clyde says:

    The regressed-to-the-mean-fuck-up children of plutocrats, on the other hand, usually ended up at TCU or ASU……

    By using “regressed-to-the-mean”, I can tell this writer is truthful about reading iSteve. I rate his entire account as true and shedding new light. That Rick Singer ran a diversified operation that took many approaches to getting kids into the colleges they and their parents wanted. I thank the writer for taking the time.

    At the top of Bing news in a Rick Singer search>>
    College admissions scheme mastermind William Rick Singer wore wire to expose scam
    “I put everything in place,” he told a federal judge. “I put all the people in place and made the payments directly.”

    • Agree: ben tillman
  6. Let it be said that whites are probably not as honest about these things as you think.

    This needs to be emphasized, especially given Education Realist’s frequent claims – some of which have been highlighted here in the comments’ section of Steve’s blog – that Asians are the main group cheating to get into college.

    I quickly looked over the fifty names on the list of wealthy parents caught up in this scandal and could find only _one_ East Asian surname. (There were at least a couple of Middle Eastern surnames.)

    Looks like cheating on a massive scale to get into college is something that East Asians are not the only ones doing.

  7. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:

    How exactly do they check that the students match the ethnic identity they claim?

    Is there some way to check this out?

    Are universities wise to this?

    If Whites really were “passing” as Blacks (and thereby decreasing the black student population substantially), why haven’t Black student organizations made any noise?

  8. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:

    Do you trust the commenter? Seems a bit strange that he’d suddenly start posting now, in defense of his boss.

    • Replies: @JW
  9. @Rational

    The public thinks, if they are all evil, why am I a sucker to play by the rules of a criminal govt. and the crooked academia. Why study hard, when scams is what matters.

    Anybody who didn’t already know this just hasn’t been paying any attention at all. The rich don’t wait three hours in line at the DMV each time they register or sell one of their large fleet of vehicles. The rich don’t pay speeding tickets, they pay lawyers to force prosecutors & judges to accept zero point pleas or attend all day and multi-day trials for a 35mph over-the-limit infraction. They don’t miss connecting flights (when they fly commercial), the aircraft are held at the gate and they’re driven in a golf cart or sometimes even on the ramp outside to their connection. If you’re not rich and have never spent any time around the rich or within the system, I don’t think you can understand how pervasive this is – the perks are endless – they do not live in the same world that the rest of us inhabit. What’s interesting is how much of their perks in life are actually free. You’d probably think they get everything by simply buying it, but half of it is just given to them by folks trying to curry their attention and favor. The rich get a lot of gifts from far poorer upper middle class folks..

    Our much vaunted society is at least as corrupt as any banana republic, it is just done in a far more genteel and covert manner. The absolute disgrace that was the Jeffrey Epstein imbroglio is a fine example, the only thing unusual is that we found out about it.

  10. Clyde says:
    @Spud Boy

    These little problems will all be solved after the Democrats force through free college and take over complete control of the admissions process.

    Universities and their admissions run ObamaCare style. Those who benefit the most will be children of color, children of Comrades and Apparatchiks. Also students who are sexually confused, conflicted, fluid, such as LGBTQ-Trans.
    btw- Half of all university administrators, the degrees they hold are in education. This is why they run to the left of the liberal and leftist professors. Read this a few days ago at Unz.

  11. J.Ross says: • Website

    I feel about a white person lying to get around affirmative action exactly what Brezhnev is quoted in “There Is No Freedom Without Bread” feeling about Soviet citizens who help unload a train car and then one or two boxes go missing.

  12. @Anon

    The black groups probably think the kid is there due to White Privilege. Or they help raise the black GPA.

  13. Bruno says:

    The schools themselves are lying. Take for example their 25th-75th SAT (or ACT percentile). The actual number of people is higher than the people scoring at that level. And we always hear about 99.8% people (1580,1590 and 1600) not being admitted. I am absolutely sure that HYP + Chicago, Caltech, MIT, Columbia, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Rice and Washington University.

    At this level there is by definition 3400 SAT people. If you go down to 1570, you add 1500 people to 4900 and many’more ivies claiming to be at 1570 for 75th percentile SAT.

    They would need taking 200% of such scorers to get there. It’s a pure big lie. Authorities should start checking SAT reports from universities. They just can’t be true (except for Caltech (50 people at 1600 is OK) and maybe Harvard (450 people at 1600). Meaning that only Harvard and Caltech would suck out 500 out of the 1100 people with a perfect score or 45% (knowing many are just coach getting high score for business propaganda and training).

    —-> SAT score from Universities are Bullshit

    • Replies: @MSP
  14. The saddest thing about this scam is that most of these kids could have gotten into most college/universities without their parents cheating. I guess having to tell your golfing buddies at the country club that your duaughter was going to Ohio State or SUNY Buffalo was too much to bear.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
    , @J.Ross
    , @Cato
  15. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Good relatively short video about the education industrial complex scam (from last year so not about the recent bribe scam).

    • Replies: @europeasant
  16. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    Yeah, but ASU isn’t taken seriously.

  17. guest says:

    Gender studies is “quite interesting” in which universe?

  18. @Rational

    Rational wrote:

    The public thinks, if they are all evil, why am I a sucker to play by the rules of a criminal govt. and the crooked academia. Why study hard, when scams is what matters.

    I have a Ph.D. from Stanford in elementary-particle physics. I ended up going into industry because I, quite unwittingly, stumbled upon scientific fraud at Stanford, and the involved members of the faculty decided it would be good if I were no longer in the academic world.

    I think you’ve nailed the problem of the world we live in: yes, crony capitalism, the welfare state, the bureaucracies in education, medicine, etc. are all costly and inefficient.

    But, most of all they are morally debilitating.

    You want a good steak dinner at a local restaurant? All you need is the money. No lying on applications, no schmoozing with the people who decide to hand out the steaks, etc. Same thing with buying a Porsche or a trip on a cruise ship or whatever. Usually, interactions on a truly free market are morally clean.

    But, as the comment Sailer posted indicates, even the college applicants who are not actually breaking the rules are forced to play games. Spend your high-school years on “extracurricular activities” not that you really enjoy or think are worthwhile (try putting down that you worked for the National Right-to-Life Committee!) but rather that you think will impress the college admissions officers. In your college-admissions essays don’t present who you truly are, tell them what you think will grab their attention from among the hordes of applicants. If you are truly solely obsessed with biomedicine and would make a great biomedical researcher, don’t say that — try instead to show that you are really “well-rounded.”

    I know a lot of doctors: it is even more corrupt in the medical field (and medical schools) than in college applications.

    I suppose anyone following the news for the last decade knows about the corruption in our monetary and financial system (if anyone doesn’t, then google “too big to fail” and use the Labor Department’s inflation calculator to see how the Fed has destroyed almost all of the value of the dollar in the last century).

    The corruption is at its worst in our professional and managerial classes and among our ruling elite.

    The current scandal gives us just one small peek into this obvious corruption.

    Dr Johnson declared that “a man is seldom more innocently occupied than in making money,” but he had in mind actual free markets. No intense pressure for college admissions in his day, no complex government-enforced medical monopoly, no fiat money controlled by the Fed, etc.

    We now have a society based on status, connections, and credentialism, not on free choice, productivity, and free exchange of goods and services.

    Our society is deeply morally corrupt, and almost no one — Left or Right — is talking about the institutional choices starting with the Progressive Era that have made this inevitable.

    This truly is not going to end well.

  19. guest says:
    @Pincher Martin

    This is where the dreaded Per Capita lifts its head.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  20. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    The saddest thing about this scam is that most of these kids could have gotten into most college/universities without their parents cheating. I guess having to tell your golfing buddies at the country club that your duaughter was going to Ohio State or SUNY Buffalo was too much to bear.

    What about all the universities in the ”UK, Europe, etc? For 99% of all Americans any European school would sound prestigious, IMHO (not just Oxford, Cambridge=, Sorbonne, etc.).

  21. Whitney says:

    “So a lot of what I did was help students to present a picture of themselves – through essays, extracurriculars, etc. – in which they could plausibly claim to want to major in some unpopular yet to me (I am humanist), quite interesting major like gender studies…”

    Gender studies. The letter writer referred to gender studies as an interesting major. That really sets off my alarm Bells. I don’t believe a regular reader of this blog would refer to gender studies as an interesting major

    • Agree: David
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  22. tr says: • Website
    @Spud Boy

    These little problems will all be solved after the Democrats force through free college and take over complete control of the admissions process.

    You could use the alleged public housing application from a liberal college town as the application to the Ivys—the only thing which would count is political activism.

  23. istevefan says:

    As my drill sergeant in the Army told us, “if you ain’t lying, you ain’t trying.”

  24. fish says:
    @PhysicistDave

    This truly is not going to end well.

    No it is not!

  25. Anonymous[372] • Disclaimer says:

    The American news headlines are now filled with a constant stream of high profile Jewish shenanigans. WTF.

    Supposedly The Tribe is all powerful!

    But between the failure to stop Trump, the failure to destroy Syria, the failure to stop Omar & Co, and the failure to suppress all of these Judeo-scandals in the media… one would have to say that

    The Tribe is not close to being all powerful!

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  26. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Buffalo Joe

    This proves that it’s not about learning.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  27. Because most students today are drones and automata with little to no genuine intellectual curiosity or interest in the glories of Western civilization, they, for the most part, want to major in some type of econ, business, or computer science.

    I don’t see them that way. To me this shows that these students want to plan their lives better by making themselves employable when they graduate from college.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  28. indocon says:

    HuffPo has what you can imagine a predictable response to the admissions scandal, trying to put the narrative off “see we told you so”, quotas for Obama’s and Holder’s kids were essential cuz Hollywood celebrities that no body had heard of recently (I count myself as definition of average somebody) were scheming to get theirs in.
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/college-bribery-scam-affirmative-action_n_5c896a88e4b0450ddae6f19c

    But notice the tone of comments, the author’s conflation of this scandal with affirmative action is not bought at all. When you are starting to loose HuffPo readers, you really need to change the topic.

    BTW the author’s name is Sarah Ruiz-Grossman!! That does not appear to be a joke.

  29. Holy hell, having to pull strings to get in at ASU of all places.

    You could go to any Maricopa Community College and get an AA, and that’s good enough to get you in the door to any state university in Arizona.

    The mind boggles at the banality of it all.

  30. stevecel says:

    I think it’s time to realize that the failure of the white race is a moral one. There is no reason that the Jews should rule but that the goyim are willing to parley, to betray, and to profit. It is a beautiful stroke to be sure, that the ability for whites to serve their self-interest should be turned against them. Bravo! Homer and Shakespeare are no match for the wit of the Elders of Zion. Bravo! On to the next life, may we meet again a hundred, a thousand, a million years hence to say encore!

  31. @J.Ross

    J. Ross, good point and what type of relationship do you have with a child that finds out that you bribed their way into college and do the colleges allow that child to continue at that school.

  32. @PhysicistDave

    I, quite unwittingly, stumbled upon scientific fraud at Stanford

    Must’ve been real science, because almost all “social science” is fraud.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  33. @Anon

    I seem to remember a story about a girl who applied to college as “African American”, was admitted via affirmative action, was discovered to be a white South African, had her admission revoked, but then won a lawsuit against the school.

    However, I think in most of these cases the students claim to be multiracial and would not end up being counted as e.g. blacks in the enrollment statistics.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  34. @advancedatheist

    I don’t see them that way. To me this shows that these students want to plan their lives better by making themselves employable when they graduate from college.

    None of these used to require a college degree. And big companies used to hire liberal arts graduates and train them themselves.

    Those that can still recount this from experience are in their nineties now.

  35. Lurker says:

    As one of the coaches said in the complaint – “I have to reserve a few spaces for actual water polo players.”

    Why does a serious academic institution have to build a top class water polo team at all? (Or any other kind of team)

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  36. @Whitney

    Gender studies.

    Sixty years ago, that term would have evoked images of an arcane branch of Indo-European linguistics.

  37. @WowJustWow

    I seem to remember a story about a girl who applied to college as “African American”, was admitted via affirmative action, was discovered to be a white South African, had her admission revoked, but then won a lawsuit against the school.

    Something tells me the children of Elon Musk and Charlize Theron will not have to resort to such subterfuge.

    But then, Singer will be unavailable…

  38. athEIst says:

    whites tend to be pretty honest when it comes to not lying about their race.

    I know of an old white woman who did. She’s(ha ha)running for President.

  39. @PhysicistDave

    If these schools truly had “elite” academic programs and standards they could honestly admit everyone who could both: (a) pay the tuition and; (b) do the work. If the students aren’t really academically “elite” then they would be washed out before graduation. And anyone who actually achieved the degree would have objectively established his or her excellence.

    But the Ivies long ago decided that everyone who gets in the door should graduate with at least a “B+” average without trying too hard. So their elite reputation ends up being based solely on their apparently exclusivity at the front-end of the process — i.e., admissions rather than graduation.

    In the end, it’s all about “signalling.” If there were an accepted alternative way for students to objective certify their merit — for example, by passing certain subject matter tests established for this very purpose — they could dispense with all the phony and expensive signalling costs involved in getting a four-year degree from an Ivy.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  40. “In fact – in my experience with Singer’s company, at least – they do it all the time. I could tell you many, many stories. Many times, I have seen white students apply as black and gay. And I have helped the children of white billionaires get into Ivy League schools by claiming to have some obscure ethnic identity, with “underprivileged” members of which groups they’d claim to have done all manner of heroic humanitarian work.”

    This commenter’s frame of reference is a group of people coming to his company specifically to deceive the college admissions system (in many cases because they cannot take advantage of AA.) Not exactly a random sample.

    “Let it be said that whites are probably not as honest about these things as you think.”

    Even if this is true, compared to POC’s they are still more honest, relatively speaking.

    • Replies: @densa
  41. @Pincher Martin

    You are attempting to discount a valid theory based on a very specific and concentrated sample of individuals, who were acting intentionally to game the system.

    That’s like sampling 100 black members of the American Negro Never Been Arrested Club (ANNBAC) and declaring “Ahah! Black criminality in the US has been overstated!”

  42. @guest

    No, not really.

    Asians make up a disproportionate share of the young college applicants seeking to matriculate at a college where the details of their applications will matter.

    For example, Asians make up only 6 percent of the US population, but over 8 percent of _all_ college students and over 20 percent of the Ivy League student body. You can bet Asians make up an even larger share of the applicants to Ivy League schools. I’m guessing at least 30 percent.

    Most of these applicants are East Asian. And, yet, I could find only one East Asian surname out of fifty names in this recent cheating scandal.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Jim Don Bob
  43. densa says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    And he says, But in fact we helped students to get into school via any number of side doors, not all of them criminal.… Ha, so there is that.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  44. Peterike says:
    @Pincher Martin

    “I quickly looked over the fifty names on the list of wealthy parents caught up in this scandal and could find only _one_ East Asian surname.”

    They have their own networks which are much harder to crack via the FBI. Don’t be naive.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  45. OT: In the meantime a Bay Area community college has been attacked by another dreaded noose:

    PLEASANT HILL (KRON) — Racist graffiti found on a restroom wall last week at an East Bay college campus prompted students to stage a walkout Wednesday in protest.

    School administrators say the incident is under investigation — but that didn’t stop dozens of students from walking out of class at Diablo Valley College.

    Student Vanessa Galang said the graffiti was a drawn picture of a noose.

    “This should be an environment that we come to learn and feel safe,” said another student Tirrell Patiloo.

    Students are voicing their concerns regarding a racially charged hate message written on a men’s restroom wall on the campus of Diablo Valley College in Pleasant Hill.

    The incident happened a week ago.

    The students say they were notified days later.

    “I want the school to handle it,” said student Jajuan Roquemore.

    On Wednesday, several student organizations led a walk out of class and a rally to protest.

    “It makes me feel uncomfortable. It makes me feel unsafe. Makes me feel that I am not safe here on this campus,” Galang said.

    These students say adding to their frustration is that this is not the first racist graffiti incident at this school .

    “We have talked to faculty. We have sent emails trying to figure out why did this happening and what is DVC going to do?” said student Djoina Lockett.

    In response, Diablo Valley College released a statement that reads in part, “DVC strongly condemns the hateful and offensive graffiti message directed toward African Americans written on a men’s restroom wall on campus last Wednesday… We have no tolerance for any behavior that seeks to destroy our values of inclusion. Counselors are available to support any student who may have been impacted.”

    DVC officials say campus police are also investigating the incident.

    “I want them to hold somebody accountable, make an example out of somebody,” Patiloo said.

    https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/east-bay-college-students-stage-walkout-after-racist-graffiti-found-on-campus/1847023084

  46. @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Caesar wrote to me:

    Must’ve been real science, because almost all “social science” is fraud.

    Yeah, elementary-particle physics (quantum field theory and all that): I actually do have a Ph.D. in physics.

    I had an informal offer to do a post-doc in econ after my Ph.D. in physics: I could have taken it and then moved to Wall Street and made a bundle helping to wreck the US financial system! A number of physicists did follow that route.

  47. …in some unpopular… major like gender studies, philosophy, or soc or psych.

    Surely this is sarcasm. If true, where do all the Wokie dicks come from? NCAA tetherball scholarships?

  48. KL says:

    “soc is relatively male-dominated”

    No, most sociology majors are women. This undermines the credibility of the commenter.

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @e
  49. @MikeatMikedotMike

    You are attempting to discount a valid theory based on a very specific and concentrated sample of individuals, who were acting intentionally to game the system.

    How do you know if the theory is valid or not until you look at the evidence?

    And I’m looking at the evidence.

    If you believe East Asians cheat disproportionately in seeking to get into the best universities, then you would have every reason to expect that Asian-American parents would’ve disproportionately used Singer’s business to commit illegals acts to get their kids into those best schools. Yet it appears that they did not.

    By the way, that’s not the only evidence which goes against Education Realist’s theory. If you need more evidence, check out the cheating scandals going back over the last two decades that took place at the service academies. Asians are not know to be disproportionately represented at West Point or Annapolis or the Air Force Academy. And these scandals took place at institutions which emphasize an honor code. The violators? Almost all of them were white.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @Nathan
  50. @Peterike

    They have their own networks which are much harder to crack via the FBI. Don’t be naive.

    Their own networks?

    Since East Asian applicants are not getting in as much as their accomplishments suggest they should, someone should suggest to the parents that they change their networks. Pronto.

    • Replies: @Hodag
  51. Wilkey says:

    “Let it be said that whites are probably not as honest about these things as you think.”

    Guy who works for company whose purpose is to help people scam the system claims that everyone he meets is scamming the system.

    Frankly, I’m perfectly happy when people lie about their race in order to undermine A.A. It’s a form of civil disobedience. But most people don’t do that, and the people this guy meets who are doing that aren’t doing so to help destroy A.A. Hell, publicly they are probably supporting it. They’re doing it, along with a host of other dishonest things, simply to cheat their way into a school or job.

  52. Patricus says:

    Over decades I have known people from top Ivy schools and people from ordinary state schools. Is there a qualitative difference among these people based upon the fame of their school? Not that I could perceive. It seems there are a few energetic go getters and many too many who snooze through careers, regardless of academic credentials. I suspect some of my bosses were even dumber than me. They did know how to sign my paychecks so I salute the bosses.

    Does a high SAT score, or 4.5 college transcipt, predict future accomplishments? Doesn’t everyone in the Ivies get As?

    We Americans seem to worship institutions of higher education. I never seem to see a window sticker that reads F##k Yale. It is touching to see how evidence of educational credentials ranks with medals of honor and bravery, or conspicuous wealth. We must be the most scholarly people in history.

  53. @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Cæsar wrote:

    None of these used to require a college degree. And big companies used to hire liberal arts graduates and train them themselves.

    At my first job out of school in the early ’80s, I worked with an older electrical engineer who had gotten his bachelor’s degree on the GI Bill right after WW II. He told me that, at the time, almost none of the engineers had college degrees: they learned on the job.

    At the same time, we had a young guy in the department, a 4.0 in electrical engineering fresh out of UCLA. One day, I was working with this guy and another engineer on a project where we needed to know 1.9 times 2.1. One of us casually remarked that it would be about 4. The young A-average kid from UCLA pulled out his calculator, did the calculation, and turned to us in amazement and asked us how we could have known the answer was about 4!!

    We patiently explained how we had estimated the answer.

    UCLA is ranked in the top 20 electrical engineering schools. This kid had an A average.

    How could this happen?

    Ever since, the two events have been linked in my mind and I have concluded that, even in STEM, on-the-job learning is better than a university education.

  54. MSP says:
    @Bruno

    They report super-scores. It’s a lot easier to get these high scores if you take the test 4 times and pick the highest for each section as your combined score.

  55. @Anonymous

    What about all the universities in the ”UK, Europe, etc? For 99% of all Americans any European school would sound prestigious, IMHO (not just Oxford, Cambridge=, Sorbonne, etc.).

    You’re not the first to think of this. We’re looking for universities in both the USA and the UK for Daughter Calvinist, and I recently discovered that an estimated one-third of the student body at St Andrews (where Prince William and Kate attended and met) is American.

    The best part? If you’re not getting need-based financial aid in the USA, high-end UK universities are significantly cheaper than their US counterparts.

    It’s all laid out in this article: https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/a10274881/st-andrews-scotland/

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  56. @MikeatMikedotMike

    You want another example?

    This psychologist, who attended the Air Force Academy in the 1960s, surveyed over fifty years of the his alma mater’s graduates. One of his questions was whether they ever violated the honor code’s sanction against lying, cheating, and stealing.

    Nearly two-thirds of the 2010 graduating class admitted to violating the code.

    Why focus on the service academies? Their student bodies are still largely white, and they are also very selective. Less than 5 percent of the Air Force Academy’s student body was Asian in 2017. The student body is not made up of white dregs. They are comparable in academic accomplishment to the Ivy League. They also have pretty stringent honor codes.

    Yet a clear majority of these students admitted to violating the honor code.

    Education Realist’s theory is full of shit.

  57. @Pincher Martin

    “And I’m looking at the evidence.”

    The commenter’s experience is anecdotal, and the sample he refers to is not random selection. It’s not evidence of any widespread trend, one way or another.

    “…then you would have every reason to expect that Asian-American parents would’ve disproportionately used Singer’s business to commit illegals acts to get their kids into those best schools.”

    False premise and speculation. You’d have more of a case if the list consisted of other minorities like Hispanics and blacks, but no Asians. That means Singer’s business was marketed to a specific group of people. Rich whites.

    ” If you need more evidence, check out the cheating scandals going back two decades that took place at the service academies. Asians are not know to be disproportionately represented at West Point or Annapolis or the Air Force Academy. And these scandals took place at institutions which emphasize an honor code. The violators? Almost all of them were white.”

    Again – you are attempting to use a specific niche in college admissions as evidence against the entirety of the US college admissions system. Asians aren’t disproportionately represented in military academies because Asians aren’t particularly patriotic. Their total representation in the US military by % is less than their total representation within the US population. If Asians aren’t interested in joining the military in the first place, I’m not really sure how that’s evidence in your favor. I suppose I could prove that men are much less likely to cheat their way into female only colleges based upon their absence from the submitted applications.

    Do you have any data that reflects the entirety of known US college admissions fraud?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Pincher Martin
  58. @Pincher Martin

    No, your examples are bullshit. This silly example of violating the honor code doesn’t even specifically illustrate if admission fraud was perpetrated!!

    Even so, you’re attempting to use scenarios in which Asians are all but completely absent from the sample! How can you measure Asian (or any group) fraud if they aren’t even in the experiment???

    How about you get some admission fraud data from UCLA? And not just from the football team.

  59. Anon[233] • Disclaimer says:

    There is something people are not appreciating here. Suppose you are a one-percenter with a ne’er-do-well kid. Rick Singer’s services are a chance that *maybe* you can get your kid on a decent track in life, where they can become a semi-autonomous, albeit parentally-subsidized adult, as opposed to a full-blown Billy Madison.

    Sure, you can send them to ASU. But odds are they will end up with a lousy GPA in a lousy major from a lousy school. Most of their friends will be deadbeats. Then what? Despite what people say, it’s difficult for even the richest parents to line up jobs for their kids. This isn’t the 1960’s.

    It would also be fascinating to know the gender breakdown of Singer’s customers. For an attractive, dumb daughter, it makes sense to pay extra to get her into a respectable non-party school, to gain exposure to a better social strata of boyfriends and potential husbands. Is it worth an extra $50K? For a daughter, probably, since it will be much more expensive if she ends up on a lifelong allowance.

  60. @Wilkey

    Guy who works for company whose purpose is to help people scam the system claims that everyone he meets is scamming the system.

    I don’t work anywhere near any company that has anything to do with getting people into college, but everybody I know is also scamming the system. This type of behavior is truly pandemic. Everybody justifies it to themselves on the basis that they’re just trying to help their kids get ahead (and besides,”everyone else is doing it”), such that they have lost all sense of it even being wrong.

    Helicopter parenting and helicopter money are the twin columns of fraud holding up the whole American edifice. Collectively, they have made mincemeat out of every conceivable standard of truth and value. Any honest man today lives in an asphyxiating cloud of cynicism and it’s a daily struggle to not just drink the hemlock and be done with it all.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  61. HonestBl says:

    This comment was extremely interesting. It reminded me something that Victor Hanson used to mention in his columns at NR: That our progressive society simply turns us into cynics, because, if the rules are unfair, people feel more comfortable about gaming them.

  62. Cato says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    The saddest thing about this scam is that most of these kids could have gotten into most college/universities without their parents cheating.

    Yes. Universities always want to admit students whose parents are willing to contribute to the endowment–they fall over themselves admitting Saudi princes and the children of tech billionaires. The problem in the Singer case is that the parents who used the “side door” tried to do it on the cheap: instead of paying off the university (with an endowed chair or a new building) they tried to pay off an employee (a bribe that was never transferred to the employer).

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  63. @PhysicistDave

    Phys, Common sense is not taught in schools, it is learned from a knowledgeable and experienced mentor. Young engineers making copious computations for a crane lift when all of the information is already in the crane Lift Chart. But we’ll wait and make them seem needed. Been there.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  64. JW says:
    @Anon

    Sanger isn’t his boss anymore.

  65. I suppose the fact that he’s a fan of yours gives him some credit, but he did work for a while (years) within a fundamentaly dishonest organization so I’ll still be applying a grain of salt to his story.

  66. @PhysicistDave

    I think some part of the population pursues knowledge for its own sake. Likely they are deep in the spectrum, but they do not primarily seek wisdom for status, wealth, pussy, etc. If the gains to advance in knowledge never exceeded the small claims of the true believers, all would be well. But today there are huge premiums to be gathered, far beyond the wildest dreams of Isaac Newton. So come parasites like crabs to a carcass. From strivers to outright fabricators, a multitude now pursues the gain and glory attached to recognition. Our society is weak, juvenile, in its ability to filter the signals from the academy and determine truth from falsehood, merit from poison. Let it ride.

  67. Lurker says:
    @Wilkey

    If all groups were gaming the system to the same degree then we would expect admissions to fall into line with IQ, SATs etc. Is this the case?

  68. MBlanc46 says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Thank you for that eloquent post. It ruined my day, but thanks.

  69. MBlanc46 says:
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    Are any of those students Americans?

  70. Anon7 says:

    Both of my kids complained about friends of theirs who padded their college applications to get into better schools. Some parents purchased “enrichment” opportunities, having them spend some time in a foreign country or – best of all – a week of charitable work in some underserved exotic part of the globe.

    It’s so much a part of the process now that no one bothers to complain. The ambitious kids play the game, because that’s what ambitious kids do.

    I liked it better back in the old days (for me the Sixties and Seventies) when you worked hard in school, you got some honest grades and a representative SAT score, and then you found a good fit at a college that was actually right for you. AND you could afford it, because hardly any US schools had discovered the “world-class university” scam which meant that they could endlessly raise tuition (and salaries) by admitting foreign students.

    • Replies: @Laugh Track
  71. @PhysicistDave

    One of a class of easy math problems if only one had bothered to learn algebra.

    It is (2-0.1)(2+0.1) which is 2^2 – 0.1^2

    It’s not what you know, but rather what you know about what you know.”

    Ask any number of STEM graduates what the circumference of a circle is,
    and they’ll all parrot, “π-r-squared.”

    • Replies: @Don't Look at Me
  72. @Pincher Martin

    Dude, who pissed in your cornflakes?

    I have never said Asians are the only ones who cheat. What I have said is this:

    So is the cheating enabled by payoffs or fear? Beats me. Is this cheating just as prevalent among high-achieving whites and long-established Asian Americans? Not in my experience, which is not to say that these kids don’t cheat at all. But really rich kids usually have parents who buy their way in…

    And these are* parents buying their way in, for the most part. They’re just paying a different party.

    As you can see, five years ago, I was wondering if SAT proctors were corrupted or incompetent, and was making no particularly claims for rich white morality. I am surprised that there are parents paying for impersonators and for proctors to change answers. That’s deeply shocking, really.

    All that said, Asians have their own cheating networks, and it’s happening all the time–and far more systemically among international students. It’s just not as interesting and colleges are heavily vested in accepting the incompetent international students.

    And this isn’t cheating on a “massive scale”.

    • Agree: JMcG
  73. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    I had an informal offer to do a post-doc in econ after my Ph.D. in physics: I could have taken it and then moved to Wall Street and made a bundle helping to wreck the US financial system! A number of physicists did follow that route.

    Returning to its roots.

    “Newton learned his physics was more serviceable than he suspected, but more importantly than that, he learned that the dream of alchemy which he thought had died during the black year of 1693 hadn’t died after all. It had been reborn. He and Locke had actually found their philosopher’s stone in the world of modern Capitalist finance.” (E. Michael Jones, Barren Metal: A History of Capitalism as the Conflict Between Labor and Usury , (South Bend: Fidelity Press), p. 495.

  74. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Neil Templeton

    Pournelle’s Law is the only law you need and it will kill us all.

  75. @Pincher Martin

    What the fuck “theory” are you talking about?

    Do Asian countries have a culture of cheating that is not what we see in America? That’s indisputably true. That’s not a theory.

    Are Asians, particularly the Chinese, systematically cheating on a grand scale on their American college applications, in a way that dwarfs what we see here? Again, beyond dispute. Also not a theory.

    Is there a *lot* of cheating here in the US by Asian immigrant kids? Yes.

    I have, or had, two “theories”:

    1) Colleges are pricing in the cheating when they read Asian resumes, and thus it’s a significant reason for the discrimination against them. They aren’t deliberately turning down tremendously talented kids; they think they are turning down a whole bunch of swots. Note: this is my interpretation of their behavior, not approval. I’ve said before that’s a bad reason.

    2) Whether it’s test prep or just an endless grind, Asian kids would be underperforming in college. I’ve stepped away from this one, in part because there seems to be a big uptick in college cheating (by everyone), and college itself is so corrupt there’s no serious way to assess underperformance.

    As for your data, it’s bullshit. College data consistently shows overwhelmingly that international, predominantly Asian, students are caught cheating far more often than American.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  76. @PhysicistDave

    I worked with an older electrical engineer who had gotten his bachelor’s degree on the GI Bill right after WW II.

    My father got a two-year degree from some electrical trade school just before the war broke out in Europe. (And joined the Coast Guard right away. Smart move.)

    I never knew whether to call him an electrician or an electrical engineer. The lines were much blurrier then. Most of his jobs had him wearing business clothes, and on military contracts he worked with officers rather than enlisted, so “engineer” was probably the apter term.

  77. @PhysicistDave

    Great comment.

    I have a similar, but slightly different viewpoint, based on working in medicine for a long time, which as you point out is one of the massively dysfunctional sectors of the U.S. economy.

    As you say, in a free market, things tend to be fairly transparent, corruption is minimized, and stupid games don’t need to be played. But there are a few caveats. First, all the players have to be roughly the same size and have the same amount of power. Anyone who has dealt with Comcast or Google or Oracle today I think understands that even in a free market if there are significant power asymmetries between parties you develop the same sorts of pathologies seen in a dysfunctional or tyrannical government.

    This is why I think that Jefferson’s ideal of a nation consisting of small farmers, tradespeople, and shopkeepers is such a great vision–that sort of social arrangement combined with the free market allows liberty to flourish. It didn’t come to pass for practical, technological reasons: there were massive economies of scale to be had by centralizing production, to a degree most of the founders never dreamed of. Hamilton’s vision came to pass not because it was an ideal social arrangement but because it allowed the production of more widgets, and unfortunately most people value widgets more than they value liberty.

    The other caveat is that there are certain sectors of society that by their very nature do not lend themselves to a free market. The two most obvious examples are healthcare and education. In healthcare, the people most in need are pretty much by definition the least likely to be able to pay: the very old, the very young, the very unlucky. A profit maximizing doctor will spend all his time doing breast implants on healthy young patients paying cash and ignore the guy who shows up in the ED after a car crash who may or may not have insurance. Great for the individual doc, terrible for society if everyone doc does that.

    It is a fundamentally different situation than Adam Smith described : ‘It is not from the benevolence (kindness) of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.’ True for bakers and brewers, not true for nurses or docs or teachers: this mindset doesn’t work for healthcare or education.

    There are, unfortunately, plenty of doctors who think like capitalists and structure their practice in such a way as to ‘skim the cream.’ There are also a lot of docs with frankly a socialist mindset and they are the beleaguered ones keeping the whole system (barely) afloat.

    So here is why healthcare and education in America don’t work very well, and will never work very well. We have diversity. In a diverse society people gravitate towards the free market solutions and away from socialist solutions because socialist solutions inevitably involve involuntary transfers from one group to another. People are happy to have a welfare state if it benefits people like them, not so much if it doesn’t. So the diverse US of A hates socialism and loves capitalism. We always look for free market solutions. The free market works great for taco stands and food trucks. We have awesome food trucks in America. The free market is terrible for healthcare and education. We have terrible healthcare and education in America.

    Let me give you a concrete example of why we can’t have nice things, and why your insurance bill is so high. Patients frequently end up in the intensive care unit at the end of life, which costs (in the US) maybe around 5-10K per day. Some of these patients get better. Many don’t. It often becomes apparent that the patient will not survive this ICU stay, particularly if they are at the end of a long illness.

    In the non-diverse EU or Canada (they were non-diverse when I was there, at least) the physician will generally talk with the family about the prognosis, likely futility, and a mutual decision is made to let the patient die in peace. Sometimes this happens in the US as well.

    But often this does not happen in the US because we have diversity and little trust. If the patient is African-American in particular, forget it. They don’t trust doctors. (Definitely don’t ask about organ donation.) They will keep that ventilator going for as long as possible until eventually the patient dies of an opportunistic infection or pulmonary embolism after 30 days on the ventilator and a $400K hospital bill. Completely futile. Half million dollars wasted that comes out of your premiums. I’ve noticed lately that whites are now starting to distrust the medical establishment as well so this will only get worse.

    Anyway socialism and capitalism are just tools. Don’t worship your tools. Nothing sounds dumber than “I believe in capitalism” or “I believe in socialism.” You might as well say, “I believe in induction motors.” Yeah it’s a great tool, man, in certain situations. Not all situations. Maybe not something you should worship, though.

  78. @Pincher Martin

    Yet a clear majority of these students admitted to violating the honor code.

    Yeah, but some do it just once, and others all the time. It’s probably a Lotka curve.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  79. @education realist

    It’s just not as interesting and colleges are heavily vested in accepting the incompetent international students.

    Well, somebody has to pay the “manufacturer’s suggested retail price”!

  80. “They don’t miss connecting flights (when they fly commercial), the aircraft are held at the gate and they’re driven in a golf cart or sometimes even on the ramp outside to their connection.”

    This is false.

    The gold carts or porsche rides on the ramp aren’t for the rich… they are for the frequent fliers. I know, Im one… had both of these. Frequent fliers arent rich we are middle class travelers… salesmen, engineers, technicians.

    Planes are not held for anybody, no matter how rich they are. Rare exception for some special interest case (gold star mom, etc…).

    • Replies: @keuril
  81. @PhysicistDave

    This young Dominican friar priest has a similar background to yours. Undergrad in physics from Caltech and Ph.D. in theoretical particle physics from Stanford. https://dominicanfriars.org/brothers/bro-thomas-davenport-o-p/

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  82. @Pincher Martin

    Dude, it’s a small set of selected names from one scandal.

    Do you really need this spelled out for you?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  83. @education realist

    All that said, Asians have their own cheating networks, and it’s happening all the time–and far more systemically among international students.

    The link I provided (and which you linked to) is but one example of your focus on this issue. You have argued numerous times in several venues along similar lines.

    And your examples were NOT limited to international Asian students. You once went so far as to dismiss the higher IQ scores of Asians as an artifact of cheating on IQ-proxy tests. Yet you failed to provide any evidence of a mismatch which would prove that Asian-Americans were cheating on a scale that would make such a mismatch easy to find in the data (a disproportionate share of Asian students failing in college or failing at their jobs after college, etc.).

    This FBI case shows that whites are also engaged in the cheating on a massive scale. They cheat on tests. They cheat on their applications. They fake photos of nonexistent sports accomplishments. They pay huge sums of money to pay off coaches to certify those fraudulent athletic accomplishments. And this is just a small slice of the business that Singer has been running for over two decades.

    You seem to believe that you get to highlight the demographics of cheaters when it suits your arguments and ignore them when they don’t.

    Dude, who pissed in your cornflakes?

    Perhaps I’m just upset that Trump has proven me correct by clearly abandoning the restrictionist immigration and trade positions on which he was elected. Illegal immigration is up. The trade deficit is climbing.

    I’m not happy to be proven right. And you shouldn’t be happy, either. As usual, the Coulter-Kaus-Krikorian triumvirate is way ahead of you in realizing that Trump is abandoning restrictionism.

  84. @Ripple Earthdevil

    “I want them to hold somebody accountable, make an example out of somebody,”

    That is, until we find out that it was actually done by someone ‘inconvenient’..

  85. @PhysicistDave

    I have a Ph.D. from Stanford

    And I can’t believe how many times you’ve said that.

    You simply have to be Asian, or Jewish.

    Or both. Is both possible yet?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  86. @Anon7

    I liked it better back in the old days (for me the Sixties and Seventies) when you worked hard in school, you got some honest grades and a representative SAT score, and then you found a good fit at a college that was actually right for you. AND you could afford it, because hardly any US schools had discovered the “world-class university” scam which meant that they could endlessly raise tuition (and salaries) by admitting foreign students.

    Amen.

  87. Twinkie says:
    @education realist

    Do Asian countries have a culture of cheating that is not what we see in America? That’s indisputably true. That’s not a theory.

    Singapore – which is majority Chinese with a substantial minority of Indians and Malays – has lower perceived corruption than the U.S. does. Is Singapore not an Asian country?

    Furthermore, you slip in and out of conflating foreign students with Asian-Americans. The latter are sanctioned at lower rates than people of other ethnic groups on colleges (including for academic violations) and have lower dropout rates.

    I’ve presented you all the data before. But I see you are back to your earlier shtick again.

    Whether it’s test prep or just an endless grind, Asian kids would be underperforming in college. I’ve stepped away from this one, in part because there seems to be a big uptick in college cheating (by everyone), and college itself is so corrupt there’s no serious way to assess underperformance.

    Good try at retconning. You seem not realize that all your comments here are archived. You “stepped away” from this argument, because the evidence seems to indicate there is little to no mismatch, disproving your “massive” Asian cheating hysterics. However, despite your claims to the contrary that blacks overperform their test scores in real life, recent studies show that blacks actually slightly underperform their (already low) test scores in real life. Oooops.

    And this whole uptick in cheating by everyone thing is a diversion. Even a decade or two ago, something like 70%+ of American high schoolers admitted to cheating in school in a survey. I would think that the real percentage, therefore, was and is higher. There is no reason to think that their behaviors would have changed in college. Shucks, the whole country must be predominantly Asian to produce those kinds of numbers!

  88. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    You once went so far as to dismiss the higher IQ scores of Asians as an artifact of cheating on IQ-proxy tests.

    She wrote some unintentionally hilarious things in the past along those lines. For example, she wrote that Asians may get math equations right, but have no clue what those equations mean.

    I once speculated that the higher average visuo-spatial abilities of East Asians may give them advantages in international shooting competitions (in which they excel). This might be so, because being able to visualize the parabolic trajectory of a bullet would be very useful in such competitions. She chimed in to say “Right. That’s the same ability that allows Asians to memorize things they see without understanding them.” Really, it would be funny if it weren’t so stupid.

    Yet you failed to provide any evidence of a mismatch which would prove that Asian-Americans were cheating on a scale that would make such a mismatch easy to find in the data (a disproportionate share of Asian students failing in college or failing at their jobs after college, etc.).

    You know what’s so funny? Educational Realist was so lazy that when she offered me links to this mismatch evidence between Asian scores and real life performance, some of the data in those links actually said the opposite of what she claimed. In other words, she didn’t even check her own “evidence” before posting them online.

    She either didn’t read them or read them, but hoped that others wouldn’t. It’s sad and desperate. The only people who seem to rally to her cause still are people who have axes to grind against East Asians (usually of the “whites score higher than blacks = white brilliance! Asians score higher than whites = Asian cheating!” crowd).

    Her schtick is pretty transparent if one is minimally educated. She weaves in some good observations and facts and then mixes in her agenda based on half-truths and fabrications. Then when confronted with evidences to the contrary, she retreats to “I was just asking questions” or “I was talking about foreign students,” etc. and/or sundry ad hominem/personal insults.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin, Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  89. Twinkie says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Asians aren’t disproportionately represented in military academies because Asians aren’t particularly patriotic.

    The modal surname at West Point graduations is often Kim. Koreans are highly overrepresented at West Point and the army officer corps. And Filipinos are overrepresented in the Navy. In contrast, Indians have very low military service rates.

    The point is that the term “Asians” contains a lot of different kinds of ethnicities with very different tendencies.

    So the overall picture of, say, 6.1% Asian at West Point vs. 6.9% (including non-citizens) of the whole U.S. population doesn’t quite capture the variety in patriotism.

    Do you have any data that reflects the entirety of known US college admissions fraud?

    Look up mismatch. Then search for that term in context of test scores and real life performance.

  90. Maybe this is why Gregory and Marcia Abbott allegedly bought their daughter’s way into college.

    Their “rapper” son, Malcolm, popped out of the family’s Park Avenue building to smoke a giant blunt — while defending his parents and bragging about his latest CD.

    “They’re blowing this whole thing out of proportion,” said Malcolm Abbott outside the home that overlooks the Metropolitan Museum of Art. “I believe everyone has a right to go to college, man.”

    In between drags, Malcolm, whose father is the founder of food and beverage distributor International Dispensing Corp., admitted, “I didn’t go to college.”

    The toker, who sports a ponytail and raps under the name “Billa,” then shamelessly plugged his music. “Check out my CD, ‘Cheese and Crackers,’ ” he said of his 2018 five-track rec­ord that includes a song titled “If I Lost My Money.”

    Later, Malcolm emerged with his brother, who groused to The Post on Tuesday his parents “got roped into [this by] some guy who f–king cheated them.”

    https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/son-defends-parents-caught-in-college-admissions-scandal-while-smoking-blunt/

    Props for the Andy Griffith sample.

    • Replies: @Mike1
  91. @MikeatMikedotMike

    The commenter’s experience is anecdotal…

    It conforms to the publicly-released list of the fifty people who have been arrested in this case. So unless you believe the FBI chose to focus on arresting white parents in this case – and perhaps you’re dumb enough to believe this – I see no reason to doubt the commentator’s perception.

    False premise and speculation. You’d have more of a case if the list consisted of other minorities like Hispanics and blacks, but no Asians.

    That’s silly. Why would Black and Hispanic parents seek out Singer’s business when the US government and nearly all U.S. universities are already on their side with affirmative action? Any marginally-smart and academically-engaged Black or Hispanic kid will find all the help he needs without going to someone like Singer. They don’t need to go outside the system when the system is already helping them. Why would you pay for something you will get for free?

    Asians and whites are the two groups which need all the help they can get if their kids are marginal in ability. The parents in those groups are the ones who would seek out someone like Singer for an advantage. Yet Asian-Americans for the most part did not. At least not to the degree that someone like Education Realist would predict.

    Asians aren’t disproportionately represented in military academies because Asians aren’t particularly patriotic. Their total representation in the US military by % is less than their total representation within the US population. If Asians aren’t interested in joining the military in the first place, I’m not really sure how that’s evidence in your favor.

    You completely misunderstood the reason I chose the service academies. I picked them precisely because they have very few Asians students, and yet they are still hard to get into. Their student bodies are mostly talented white students. Until very recently (the last five to ten years), they were overwhelmingly white. They also have a rigorous honor system which dissuades students from cheating and lying with heavy penalties.

    So any cheating scandal at the service academies can’t be laid at the feet of Asians, in the way Education Realist has sometimes hinted that recent cheating scandals in the Bay Area must involve Asians even before he has proof for this assertion.

    Asian students aren’t thick enough on the ground in the service academies to make such an impact there. And yet the service academies have been plagued by cheating scandals over the last several decades. Sometimes in cases involving upwards of a hundred students.

    Do you have any data that reflects the entirety of known US college admissions fraud?

    No, but neither did Education Realist and that didn’t stop you from defending his argument.

    No, your examples are bullshit. This silly example of violating the honor code doesn’t even specifically illustrate if admission fraud was perpetrated!!

    Hey, meathead, if you ever catch your wife cheating on you and she swears it’s the first time she’s ever done something like that, you can go ahead and believe her if you like.

    If the kids can cheat when attending a service academy with an honor code, they certainly aren’t going to have any qualms cheating to get into a service academy.

  92. J.Ross says: • Website

    I propose banning the term “Asian” in favor of cultural spheres named after the prominent historical civilization or familiar country (Persic, Indic, Sinic, Angic, Josic, Tirgic, Tagic).

  93. @Twinkie

    I just dislike the hypocrisy. If at least ten to fifteen of the fifty indicted parents had been Asian-Americans, Education Realist would’ve already had a blog post and several tweet bombs about the news, showing how it confirmed his views.

    But when the cheaters are overwhelmingly white? He ignores it.

    The same with IQ. ER is a big believer in IQ … until it shows that Asians score slightly higher than whites. Then he wants to take a look under the hood.

  94. @Mr McKenna

    Dude, it’s a small set of selected names from one scandal.

    Fifty names ain’t a small set.

    I suppose Singer might’ve had a good reason to NOT take Asian-American money, and so this sample is skewed toward white parents for some reason, but I would like you to speculate why this is so.

    Do you think Singer was too stupid to know that 1) many Asian-Americans have a lot of money, 2) those same parents really care about their children’s educations, and 3) their talented kids often have great trouble matriculating to a school even when their qualifications are above average for that school’s accepted applicants?

  95. @Pincher Martin

    “You once went so far as to dismiss the higher IQ scores of Asians as an artifact of cheating on IQ-proxy tests.”

    Uh, no. I’ve repeatedly said that the higher IQ scores of Asian are real.

    “Yet you failed to provide any evidence of a mismatch which would prove that Asian-Americans were cheating on a scale that would make such a mismatch easy to find in the data (a disproportionate share of Asian students failing in college or failing at their jobs after college, etc.).”

    Agreed. There’s a clear pattern with international students, but I only ever found one study from Davis that talked about Asian Americans underperforming. So what? I agreed about that at least three years ago. So find something new to bitch about.

    But the lack of data about underperformance doesn’t alter the fact that cheating in the Asian American high school community is endemic and well-established. Ask any teacher who works in a predominantly Asian American high school.

    However, given the complete corruption of college (eg, abandoning remediation and giving credit for middle school level classes as three major state systems are doing), I’ve stopped caring much about domestic students. I’ve focused more recently on international.

    This FBI case shows that whites are also engaged in the cheating on a massive scale. They cheat on tests. They cheat on their applications. They fake photos of nonexistent sports accomplishments. They pay huge sums of money to pay off coaches to certify those fraudulent athletic accomplishments. And this is just a small slice of the business that Singer has been running for over two decades.

    This? This isn’t massive. This is cheap and corrupt and horribly embarrassing to colleges, the Colllege Board, and nouveau riche families who don’t have enough assets to buy a building to get their kids in. I don’t dismiss it at all, particularly the SAT corruption. (But then, the SAT has been corrupt overseas for years, so it’s just going domestic.)

    But this isn’t massive. It is, as you say, a small slice of the business Singer has been running. The rest of it was penny ante advice. Most of his clients couldn’t afford this level of cheating.

    You’ve deluded yourself if you think I’m arguing that only Asians cheat. That’s absurd. I write about the Asian cheating issue because so few others do, particularly when there are cheating scandals that are almost exclusively Asian American, and the reporters ignore it. And there’s no question that Asian culture is much more corrupt than American. But beyond that, I certainly would never, and have never, denied that cheating is something that all demographics do.

    I’m not happy to be proven right. And you shouldn’t be happy, either. As usual, the Coulter-Kaus-Krikorian triumvirate is way ahead of you in realizing that Trump is abandoning restrictionism.

    He’s not abandoning restrictionism. He got rolled by a GOP that, as you and I both know, doesn’t want to restrict immigration. Coulter’s a hysteric. Kaus and Krikorian are worried. So am I. But unlike Coulter, I recognize that every day there’s a million small things being done to restrict legal immigration, and more deportations. Also, the very fact that things have been pushed to this level at the border is because of Trump. He’s not perfect. But watching the reaction, I’m convinced that even if he’d done everything exactly right, he’d have been challenged and sued at every turn. So I’m just happy at how much that has been done.

    But go ahead, tell yourself things would be just great if Hillary were president.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  96. @Pincher Martin

    I haven’t read enough about this to do more than speculate. But when we talk about this population, we’re talking about recent immigrants, and they tend to have their own networks. I’m not saying it’s impossible that Singer could have Asian American clients, but there’s an enormous network of Asian “sat academies” all throughout the country with major populations, and most of those places already have a copy of every high school math test at every school in the district. They already have lots of clients who have no income on paper but drive BMWs with money from back home, and they qualify for need-based scholarships. That is, there’s already a huge network in place so I’d expect it to start there–if it existed.

    But all of this seems so much richer than the average second generation Asian American, so it’s not really what I’d expect.

    This is the typical Chinese academic fraud case these days.

  97. @Pincher Martin

    Once again, this is not true. I have stated many times I don’t dispute Asian IQ is higher.

    And I haven’t been ignoring this at all. I guess you didn’t read the last thread. I’ve been tweeting about it a lot. I haven’t written about it, but that’s because it’s not in my bailiwick. I was a tutor for richwhite kids who had enough money or legacy so they didn’t need to cheat–or at least they made legal bribes. So it’s not an area I know about. Even so, there’ve been clear patterns I noticed and tweeted about–and talked about here as well. So you’re just wrong. I have not been ignoring this.

    Apologies for three comments in a row.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    , @Jack D
  98. keuril says:
    @frequentflier

    The gold carts or porsche rides on the ramp aren’t for the rich… they are for the frequent fliers.

    I agree, I thought that comment was hilarious. You want them to hold the plane for you? You want a ride on the tarmac to your gate in a Maybach? Need Global Services on United, Concierge Key on AA—look that shit up on TPG, invite-only starting at 200K status miles and $45K hard spend in the preceding calendar year. Similar ignorance on display in the majority of comments on admissions and higher education.

    The problem is the iSteve commentariat is an echo chamber where a small number of posters profess to be experts on everything.

  99. @Reg Cæsar

    Yeah, but some do it just once, and others all the time. It’s probably a Lotka curve.

    Yes, and some people who cheat to get into a school are probably qualified to be there. What’s your point?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  100. @education realist

    And I haven’t been ignoring this at all.

    You haven’t ignored the topic. But you have ignored the demographics of the case, which you would NOT have done if the perps were disproportionately Asian-American.

    The one exception among the tweets that you provide here? Your comment that it was interesting that the perps weren’t Chinese, which sort of proves my point.

    • Replies: @education realist
  101. @Stan d Mute

    Po’ upper middle class trash!

  102. @Lurker

    50,000 people don’t come out on Saturday to cheer the chess team- Bear Bryant

    • Replies: @Lurker
  103. Pericles says:
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    Diablo Valley? Then they can send Professor Bikelock to crack some skulls.

  104. @education realist

    He’s not abandoning restrictionism. He got rolled by a GOP that, as you and I both know, doesn’t want to restrict immigration.

    He never pushed the party to do anything about it because he didn’t really care.

    But rather than judge intentions, judge results.

    Last month saw the largest number of illegal aliens in twelve years, and there’s no sign Trump is winning on the issue.

    Coulter’s a hysteric.

    Coulter doesn’t delude herself, which is more than I can say about you. Her most recent column “Trump by the Numbers” is dispassionate in its analysis of Trump’s failings on immigration.

    Here she goes:

    I’ve decided to discuss the Trump presidency in purely mathematical terms. It’s not his fault! He’s trying! Never has a president been under such attack! — these are more in the nature of “excuses,” not facts.

    Under my new approach, I will provide a numerical evaluation of the Trump presidency, which I call:

    TRUMP BY THE NUMBERS!

    No editorializing, no invective, no opinion.

    Doesn’t sound like someone in hysterics to me. It sounds like she’s just far more clear-eyed about what’s happening than you are. And she was every bit as supportive of Trump the candidate as you were. Even more so, perhaps.

    But go ahead, tell yourself things would be just great if Hillary were president.

    Sad. You’re back to spouting the same lines Bush supporters were telling us. “If you don’t support Bush, then the scary Democrat who will do the same thing Bush is doing will get elected. And then where will we be?”

    You used to tell me that Trump supporters like you could keep President Trump’s feet to the fire on the issue of illegal immigration. You know, because he needed your help to get re-elected.

    Now it looks like he’s the one who has you over the barrel. You don’t dare withdraw your support for him because otherwise the scary Democrat will do the same things Trump is doing by – to cite one recent example – allowing illegal immigration to climb to a twelve-year high.

    I guess you still support him because you like his tweets. They allow you to still dream of that day when he actually takes on the issue of immigration. Good luck with that.

  105. @Reg Cæsar

    Our local business journal has an article about a local engineering/manufacturing business. The owner was one of the last engineers without an engineering degree. He’s 91.

  106. @PhysicistDave

    My father, one of those “older engineers,” had stories like that. He told them to me when calculators were a new thing and younger guys started using them.

    The Navy sent him to Cornell during WWII, turned him into an officer and an engineer, and then put him on a destroyer. I have his slide rule.

    One of his other stories was sort of the opposite of the calculator ones:

    His company was building a new plant somewhere. As the one in charge of engineering for that division, he flew there to inspect the progress. The man he met there was a Chinese American engineer (a rare creature in those days).

    During the walk through, my father noticed a pipe overhead. It went right through a steel support beam. A hole had been cut by acetylene torch right in the middle of that load-bearing beam to allow that piece of plumbing to pass through.

    Dad asked, “What is this? Why was this done?”

    The Chinese engineer smiled, embarrassed. “Oh, that’s providence.”

    That meant they had screwed up and had to find a way to put that pipe where it had to go, but it was “providence,” fate. That pipe was just destined to be there. It was meant to be, engineering and science be damned, and so it was.

  107. @SimpleSong

    Education is terrible in the non-white parts of America. FIFY

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  108. Anon[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Why do you keep talking about only Asian Asian Asian Asian Asian Asian? Do you realize how off-putting your selfishness is?

    See what happens? We let these people into our country. We let them into our institutions. And then they proceed to only advocate for themselves and call us racist. They are taking advantage of the universalist idealism of whites, while remaining every bit as tribal as Ooga Boogas.

    GO CREATE YOUR OWN INSTITUTIONS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO CRAM INTO OURS

    IQ is like CPU processing speed. It matters a lot more what content is on the computer and how it’s used, rather than just the raw processing speed. Intelligence is merely a tool. Like any other tool, it can be used for good or bad. Ergo, Chinese/Jewish IQ is often more of a curse than a blessing.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  109. Anon[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @Neil Templeton

    I take it you’re a nihilist follower of Heartiste?

    deep in the spectrum

    Since you’re trying to couch your anti-intellectual, anti-virtue bias in pseudo-scientific terminology, I would love to see you try to explain what “deep in the spectrum” means in accepted scientific parlance. Retard.

  110. @Rational

    “MORAL OF THIS STORY—EVERBODY IN USA IS A SCAMMER, SO WHY NOT ME?”

    Funny, but this is the fundamental maxim of the Third World: Go ahead and import the Third World to save a few shekels, but don’t then be surprised when you become the Third World.

  111. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I just dislike the hypocrisy. If at least ten to fifteen of the fifty indicted parents had been Asian-Americans, Education Realist would’ve already had a blog post and several tweet bombs about the news, showing how it confirmed his views.

    But when the cheaters are overwhelmingly white? He ignores it.

    She. And yes.

    If you read her responses to you, you’ll see the pattern I laid out above. Example:

    Agreed. There’s a clear pattern with international students, but I only ever found one study from Davis that talked about Asian Americans underperforming. So what? I agreed about that at least three years ago. So find something new to bitch about.

    But the lack of data about underperformance doesn’t alter the fact that cheating in the Asian American high school community is endemic and well-established. Ask any teacher who works in a predominantly Asian American high school.

    In other words, she agrees she has no evidence and she stopped making that claim, but, yes, her claim is true and just take her word for it or some unspecified, unattributed teachers somewhere. And:

    Once again, this is not true. I have stated many times I don’t dispute Asian IQ is higher.

    Of course, she’ll then write something like this:

    But at least in my experience, I see the ability to get a high test score (often with a lot of practice taking tests), to understand the cues and responses to a lot of new material without any retention, without any understanding of the underlying content, is incredibly common in East Asians.

    In other words, she doesn’t dispute that East Asians score higher than whites on IQ tests (that would be too easily falsifiable), instead she says that IQ tests were designed for white people and don’t capture Asian underperformance well, because Asians can solve problems without understanding them like whites do. Really, it’d be hilarious if it weren’t so sad.

  112. @Twinkie

    The point is that the term “Asians” contains a lot of different kinds of ethnicities with very different tendencies.

    Yes, and not just ethnicities, but races.

    Aren’t there better ways to talk about all those people? I’ve used the term “Oriental” for East Asian, but I know that is also too broad (regardless of the phony claim that it is disrespectful).

    Other than just naming the countries of origin, is there a better term, or is it just “East Asian”?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  113. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    And yet the service academies have been plagued by cheating scandals over the last several decades.

    I’ll give you something similar, but perhaps more alarming:
    https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/us/air-force-cheating-investigation/index.html

    Freakin’ nuclear missile proficiency test.

    Nine Air Force commanders lost their jobs in the wake of a cheating scandal involving systemic cheating on tests by officers in the U.S. nuclear missile program, officials from that military branch said Thursday.

    The fired officers were in “leadership positions” at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana, Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said. Though not directly involved in cheating, “they failed to provide adequate oversight of their crew force,” according to James.

    James said Thursday that 100 lower-level officers were at one point implicated in the ordeal — having either been accused directly of cheating or having looked the other way. Nine of those have been cleared and will be allowed to return to duty, while others could face punishments ranging from letters of counseling to courts-martial on various charges.

    Military investigators stumbled into the cheating scandal while looking into alleged drug activity involving airmen. Three of their targets in the drug probe happened to work as missile crew members at Malmstrom, which is how investigators got access to their cell phones — and “found test material on them,” according to Wilson.

    These cheatin’ Asians are everywhere!

  114. @Anonymous

    the failure to stop Trump

    Trump had significant Jewish backing from the outset – Adelson, the Kushners, 90% of the Orthodox vote, Israeli support, Felix Sater and the Russian Jewish crime families in New York, etc. Maybe the lesson is that Jews are not the monolithic block you seem to think they are.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  115. @Buzz Mohawk

    “I have his slide rule.”

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  116. Twinkie says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I’ve used the term “Oriental” for East Asian, but I know that is also too broad (regardless of the phony claim that it is disrespectful).

    Other than just naming the countries of origin, is there a better term, or is it just “East Asian”?

    I object to “oriental,” because it’s much too vague and imprecise. What’s wrong with the following?

    East Asian (or Northeast Asian): Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc.
    Southeast Asian: Thais, Vietnamese, Filipinos, etc.
    South Asians: Indians, Pakistanis, etc.
    Central Asians: the ‘Stans, etc.
    West Asians: Middle Easterners.

  117. Old Prude says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I cheated at West Point, but only in Gymnnastics. Spazzed a hand-stand. Turned my 2 to a 5. We’ve all done worse things…

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    , @Twinkie
  118. @Pincher Martin

    The parents in those groups are the ones who would seek out someone like Singer for an advantage. Yet Asian-Americans for the most part did not.

    Most Asian Americans don’t really know how to game the system. They are probably cheating the old fashioned way – cheating on tests, inflated grades, paying grad students to write their essays. Etc. I don’t think they grasp how important sports are in America. The idea that playing sports well gives you an edge in academics is foreign to everyone outside the US.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  119. @Anon

    Anon[199] wrote to Neil Templeton:

    Since you’re trying to couch your anti-intellectual, anti-virtue bias in pseudo-scientific terminology, I would love to see you try to explain what “deep in the spectrum” means in accepted scientific parlance.

    While Neil can no doubt defend himself,, I’ll speak up in his defense, at least a bit.

    In contemporary society, people who truly love knowledge for its own sake are indeed going to be viewed as being “deep in the [autism\ spectrum.”

    Is that fair, reasonable, or scientific?

    No, it’s not.

    Would Aristotle or Jefferson have agreed with that contemporary attitude?

    No, they wouldn’t have.

    But, it is indeed the dominant attitude today, like it or not.

    It’s an interesting question how this came about historically. I do not think it was typical of nineteenth-century Britain — everyone would have known that Darwin and Faraday were eccentric, but they seem not to have been demeaned with nineteenth-century equivalents of “Aspergery.”

    Is it due to the late nineteenth-century American academic philosophy of “pragmatism”? Or to the common-sense “pragmatism” of the American people in a period of rapid economic and technological expansion during the nineteenth century? Or to the twentieth-century “progressive-education” movement (John Dewey et al.) that emphasized “learning from life”? Or the “proletarianization” of life that glorified the ignorant and stupid masses?

    Maybe all of the above. I don’t know.

    But, since the rise of Modernism early in the twentieth century, we have a very strange dichotomy: On the one hand, the “high culture” became increasingly bizarre and disconnected from reality — modernist literature, analytic philosophy, etc. and later postmodernism, critical studies and all the rest. On the other hand, pop culture has become increasingly crude, vulgar, and anti-intellectual.

    Of course, despite all that, Bach and Beethoven, Newton and Darwin, Locke and Gauss still live, despite the hostility of both our pop culture and our avant-garde culture. Perhaps in the end, truth will out.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  120. @SimpleSong

    SimpleSong wrote to me:

    So here is why healthcare and education in America don’t work very well, and will never work very well. We have diversity. In a diverse society people gravitate towards the free market solutions and away from socialist solutions because socialist solutions inevitably involve involuntary transfers from one group to another.

    You seem to be implying that we have a free market in health care and education in the USA, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

    Education should be completely and totally obvious: most K-12 education is in government-owned, -operated, and -funded schools. A large fraction of university students go to state universities. And there is massive government subsidies to private universities via grants, student loans, research money (a huge source of funds for so-called research universities), etc. Ever since the GI Bill, it has been intentional federal policy to dramatically expand higher-ed, and they have done so with a vengeance. Of course, if you get a lot more of something, it is going to cost more, especially if it is supplied by non-market entities and paid for with taxpayer funds.

    The “for-profit” schools that exist are basically imitations of the government schools and very often make their money off of government funds (e.g., government loans to their students). Not really free-market businesses at all.

    As to health care, well, first of all and most obviously, there is Medicare and Medicaid. Since, as you say, a disproportionate amount of medical care necessarily goes to the aged, Medicare is, necessarily, a huge government intervention in health care.

    And, then there is the fact that the tax system is designed to encourage third-party health insurance via the employer, a system that goes back to WW II as a means of evading government wage controls.

    And then there is the misuse of the government patent system by Big Pharma and the higher price of drugs caused by the FDA and the laws that have made it harder to buy cheaper drugs from abroad.

    And (government) licensing of physicians and (indirectly) med schools, and (government) control and cartelization of hospitals and on and on and on.

    Health care is about as “free market” as the Pentagon!

    There is, by the way, a great book on the history of all this: Robert Field’s Mother of Invention: How the Government Created “Free-Market” Health Care — the scare quotes in the title are because Field’s point is that American health care is not free market at all. Field himself is okay with that: i.e., he is not an advocate of free markets. But, despite that, he lays out quite clearly all the absurdly convoluted structures that exist in our “health-care system” as a result of government intervention. You’ll never look at this mess created by government the same way again!

  121. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:

    at the cost to go to these schools you could instead go to hillsdale if youre not into its conservative reputation you could start your own less militant version theres plenty of money youre paying multiples of value to have your child’s thinking impaired in the company of other bright children also volunteering for a lobotomy. the calculation seems to be no corporation will reward someone who can actually think and is educated they only want lobotomized illiterates.while it seems there’s some truth in this it cant be completely so or we will perish very soon also it implies one thinks that education and thinking ability are not going to help in the world out side of corporations self employed and life in general.
    in short a few thousand frustrated parents and student and professors ought to be able to set up schools that actually do what yale pretends to do really easily, i would think you could find esteemed professors from the right left and center who are outraged enough to lend their efforts to giving this new institution instant prestige say camille paglia a leftist but she teaches pretty much western civilization a few dozen like her founding a new university is going to get noticed maybe unz would like to get it organized use moldbergs anti versity. Its not like thers a shortage of rich white money desperate for prestigious schools to fund you take over some failing institutions facilities to get up and running instantly and like hillsdale you dont take a dime from the govt

  122. MEH 0910 says:

    I worked for very many years in and around our Elite Universities. I am able to report that their admissions policies are an unfortunate and corrupt joke.

    Harvard was once sued for restricting the admission of qualified Jews; a contest currently being waged by Asians.

    The unqualified may be accepted for many reasons, among them, as Legacies, and on account of large donations made by their parents. I do not see the difference between getting a kid into school by bribing the Building Committee, and by bribing someone else. But, apparently, the second is against the Law. So be it.

    I’ve known and worked with Bill Macy for nearly fifty years. We started two theatre companies together, one of which, THE ATLANTIC is still in operation in New York, after 35 years. I’ve known Felicity Huffman for those 35 years, she was my student, my colleague, worked in many of my films, and created roles on stage in three of my plays.

    I’m crazy about them both.

    That a parent’s zeal for her children’s future may have overcome her better judgment for a moment is not only unfortunate, it is, I know we parents would agree, a universal phenomenon.

    If ever there were a use for the Texas Verdict, this is it. For the uninitiated, the Texas Verdict is: “Not Guilty, but Don’t do it Again.”

    David Mamet

  123. Hodag says:
    @Pincher Martin

    East Asians do not make up a lot of the drones that make up the admissions department. Could you imagine what their parents would say that after obtaining a materials science degree at MIT the student says they want to make 29k a year in college administration?

    These positions are mostly Jewish women from upper middle class backgrounds whose parents pay their rent. They also tend to be otherwise unemployable due to gender studies/English/ et al degrees.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    , @Ron Unz
  124. @Anonymous

    I’ve heard that Japanese universities are extremely easy if you aren’t in a STEM field. So your rich parents send you to Uni in Japan. You party and screw Japanese girls for four years, just like most Japanese students are doing, and then go back to the USA and impress people with your degree from the University of Tokyo.

    I guess you need to know Japanese though.

  125. anonymous[404] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Or maybe the lesson is that jews play both sides?

  126. stevecel says:

    Nobody cares about Asians. You are not going to be 50% of the Ivy League regardless of test scores and whatnot because that would give away the game. The Jews at least look kind of white. Asians are utterly alien and the lower classes would realize at once that their country has been taken from them were you to ascend to power. Give it up.

    Even if Asians were the noblest people on Earth it wouldn’t matter because you can’t win wars. That’s what counts now and forever. You can do as good as you want on filling out bubbles and worksheets, but if you can’t defend yourself you’re as good as dead, or a slave.

    Figure out why you let whites float over to your continent a few hundred at a time on some pieces of wood and blow out your entire countries of millions. If you solve that problem maybe you can be more than a bit player who has to beg for whitey to acknowledge your virtue.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  127. I am humanist

    You’re doing it wrong.

  128. @Redneck farmer

    It’s pretty bad in the “humanist” parts too.

  129. @Anon

    Heartiste is at heart anti-nihilist.

    Dude hates lies. Not nihilist.

    Also most of this crowd is only not on the spectrum officially ourselves because we’re from a generation of two before it was a thing. Much sympathy here for spergeness and the like. Don’t read it as pejorative.

  130. @James Speaks

    So the punch line is that it is really 2*pi*r?

    Even if they made this mistake it was probably just popping off without thinking about the question hard enough. Happens to the best of us.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
  131. Let it be said that whites are probably not as honest about these things as you think.

    Like C. Thomas Howell in Soul Man

  132. My cousin’s son got into the University of Pennsylvania Wharton School by getting on the water polo team. He was smart enough for Wharton but growing up in San Diego where high schools have water polo teams has its benefits.

  133. Jack D says:
    @education realist

    Suddenly remembering that string of pledges by your father to Penn/Wharton in the 1990s — totaling at least $1.5 million — that coincided with the 1996 and 2000 enrollment there of you and Ivanka respectively:

    1. For a rich guy, $1.5 million over a decade and years before your kids applied is not a lot of donations to your alma mater. I’m sure that the donations were a plus factor in their applications but they were not literally “development admits” or whatever the euphemism is for kids like Jared Kushner who literally buy their way into schools.

    2. The universities own these seats and (under present law) are free to give them out any damn way they want – to athletes, to minorities, to donors, etc. I can think of worse ways of giving them out than to large contributors, especially donors who are alumni and have multi-generational loyalty. When Junior gets older, he will probably give even more. The coaches who were selling these seats are like Best Buy employees who sell TVs out the “side door” of the store – they were selling stuff that did not belong to them. When Best Buy sells you a TV, that’s legit but when an employee sell his employer’s merchandise for his own account, it’s theft.

    3. Just like the people who buy stolen TV’s for cheap, the parents involved in this scandal were looking for bargains. They didn’t want to go to the front of the store (the development office) and pay the list price to legitimately buy sis into Stanford so they tried to buy it cheap from the side door, from people who didn’t own those seats and had no right to be selling them to anyone. To stretch the analogy further, imagine that Best Buy allocated a certain # of Air Pods to be given as rewards to talented local athletes and trusted their store managers to allocate them to meritorious winners. Instead the store managers sold them for cash and pocket the proceeds.

  134. @Stan d Mute

    The rich get a lot of gifts from far poorer upper middle class folks..

    Ah, an informal patronage system. Just another example of how our American Republic resembles the Roman Republic before the descent to Autocracy and the Imperium.

    I don’t begrudge the rich their perks. They have problems just like us normal pogues. A different set of problems, to be sure, but they have to manage them and get along too. Don’t mistake this for sympathy; I have none, except in the Christian sense; I may pray they seek the moral path when confronted with their problems. At the end of it, they can’t take it with them, and they will turn to dust just as the rest of us.

  135. The saddest tidbit is the poor shmuck who paid Singer to grease his kid into… Wake Forest.

  136. @Twinkie

    Thanks. I will use your suggestions. (Though I may continue to use “Middle Eastern” instead of “West Asian,” because it is still so common and habitual.)

  137. Thea says:

    Great insight- the pick an uncommon major has long been a popular attempt to get into selective schools that offers plausible deniability.

    The actresses’s daughters just want to be famous and told they are beautiful. Clearly they had no academic ambitions but went along to make their parents happy.

    I realize their were young men involved too but it seems a lot of this is driven by the “ you go girl you can do anything even stuff you can’t really do at all and we will cheer you on.”

    When birthdates dropped, fathers of only daughters transferred their ambitions for missing sons onto the girls. Personally, I was pushed into STEM because I was better at it than other girls ( but no where close to the good men.) and my Sonless father loved to brag.

    Really at 18 I just wanted young men to find me beautiful.

  138. @PhysicistDave

    Tell us again about your PhD. Is it in physics? Where from?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  139. @Intelligent Dasein

    Everybody justifies it to themselves on the basis that they’re just trying to help their kids get ahead

    The justification is that the post-Griggs gatekeepers are utterly corrupt. You’re not gaming a system, you’re gaming a grift.

    • Agree: education realist
    • Replies: @Bill
  140. @Steve Sailer

    Now I might as well tell the following slide rule story:

    After the war, my father’s ship was moved to Europe. It made its way through the Panama Canal over to France, where the crew took some shore leave.

    Dad and a fellow officer walked into a lingerie store there. They decided to buy some items for their wives back in America. The men knew their wives measurements in inches, but all that sexy women’s underwear in France was metric.

    So, in front of the two giggling French girls who worked in the store, my father pulled out his slide rule and proceeded to multiply my mother’s inches times 2.54 to get centimeters. He did the same for his buddy’s wife’s bust, hips and waist, and the two American men walked out with what they wanted, which months later they were able to give their wives back home.

    • Replies: @adreadline
  141. @The Last Real Calvinist

    It happens that I was at St. Andrews back when Americans were still kind of new thing there. FWIW, here are some observations.

    · The University is in a small town, which it dominates. The vagaries of other than local transportation mean that getting out of town is not convenient, so student life in St. Andrews is really in St. Andrews, if you see what I’m getting at. It is kind of a real life Hogwarts environment.

    · Since it is a high quality student body, this insularity (bubble existence) can be pleasant and constructive, provided it is a place that the student fits.

    · Scottish social life revolves around pub culture. So a student there should be prepared to spend a lot of time in pubs for social reasons. You don’t have to drink alcohol to be social, but it sure helps. If you don’t like British gut-rot ale (I don’t) decent brews from Belgium and Holland, where they have a clue about brewing, are available.

    · While the “pub culture” might sound like a red flag, and for certain addiction-prone people it probably is, this is not a yob pub culture, but a more genteel bourgeois pub culture. Paki grooming gangs are not waiting outside to exploit drunk girls, for example.

    · British food combined with Scottish ale make overweight lasses depressingly common. Fresh fish, baked goods, and surprisingly good cheeses are available for anyone who cares though, so a little mindfulness, cooking skill and adaptation to local conditions can go a long way in avoiding this fate. Kate Middleton did, somehow. Humble staples like the lowly cabbage, turnip and leek are helpful here too.

    · University education being a little more unusual—and therefore a privilege—in the UK than in the US, UK uni students tended to be more earnest about their studies while simultaneously wearing their learning more lightly than their US counterparts. It is an attractive combination.

    · Graduating from a non-US university for American used to be a something of handicap, but based on your Town and Country article, and your own international lifestyle, I suspect this is no longer the case, or at least wouldn’t be the case for your family.

    · The long British university holidays make excellent opportunities to visit the Continent. But, particularly for a son, he should spend at least one New Year’s in Scotland. Scots Hogmanay is … well, the tradition is that all doors are open to all guests, and that all the ladies will kiss all gentlemen. I had my worst hangover afterwards, but didn’t regret it.

    · Scotland in general, and St. Andrews in particular are, I think, less overrun by Diversity™ than are London or other English towns, so it is much more possible to have an experience of old fashioned Britain there.

    I have tried to keep my above observations dispassionate and objective, but the reality is that St. Andrews, and Scotland in general, occupy an outsize place in my heart, and it is a great effort not to speak sentimentally of them. The best of the hardy, hearty Scots exemplify many of the virtues of their Celtic and Anglo forbearers: quick wit, canniness, physical ruggedness and courage, contempt for pomposity, and merry humo(u)r mixed with dour philosophy. Of course they are also given to drunken excess, physical contretemps and morose introspection.

    I suspect, for various reasons, that any Calvinist Family member will not have any problem fitting into the St. Andrews milieu. Or, if one does look askance, consider Edinburgh, which has many of the same characteristics as St. Andrews—excellent reputation, storied history, global alumni network—but in an elegant urban, cosmopolitan setting.

    My direct observations are several decades old, so take with a grain of salt.

    Finally, because of your commenting handle, an anecdote: touring the town of St. Andrews (all four streets of it) I heard a local lecturing a group of visitors about some Calvinist martyr or other: the refusal to recant, the burning at the stake, the martyr accusing the accusers even unto the portal of his fiery death, etc. I no longer recall the specifics, but what struck me and stayed with me was the unapologetic fervency of the speaker mirroring the unapologetic devotion of the martyr. Here was an obviously intelligent young man, passionately promoting what I naively thought at the time was a centuries-old superstition. How could this be? The question lingered with me for years, becoming a seed that would germinate greater understand only later.

    P.S. Scottish drinking etiquette is that men drink pints while women drink half-pints. Scots snicker up their sleeves at Sassenach women ordering full pints, or non-disabled men who take on less than a pint. Tourists may be considered an exception, though. FYI.

  142. Lurker says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Very true. But the sports/college industrial complex seems to exist nowhere but in the US. Other university systems elsewhere manage quite happily without it.

    • Agree: Thea
    • Replies: @Prodigal son
    , @J.Ross
  143. @Buzz Mohawk

    The Navy sent him to Cornell during WWII, turned him into an officer and an engineer, and then put him on a destroyer.

    Buzz, fascinating. If you don’t mind me asking, where did he serve? Did he run convoy escort duty in the Battle of the Atlantic, or was he part of Nimitz’s Navy? Or neither?

    Anyway, thanks for sharing.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  144. @Old Prude

    This brings up a point: the term “cheating” is broad. Telling a friend a homework answer is cheating. So is faking your entire admission application. They are vastly different in degree, but both show up in survey databases as “cheating=yes”. I would hesitate to group the former cheaters with the latter, however.

  145. @Neil Templeton

    Knowledge for pussy? LOL. I wish!

  146. @Jack D

    Yes, your analysis is logical, rigorous and authoritative.

    But there is a further dimension. In the post-Griggs world, these universities, who as you say, literally own these seats, are the de facto gatekeepers for the entire cognitive superstructure of the country. They may not have chosen that role for themselves so much as had the courts and legislature thrust it upon them, but it does not matter: they are now officially extra-governmental regulators. (And this leaves aside the fact that in reality they are nearly all heavily government subsidized and intermingled.) As officially-designated regulators, they have a moral, if not yet always a legal, obligation to abide by the customary impartiality of neutral arbiters. Yet they do not, either in theory or practice.

    The universities compound this by their own rhetoric, in which they never miss a chance to proclaim their own goodness, justice, inclusivity, charity, and Olympian discernment in selecting the preordained leaders of tomorrow’s world. Hypocrisy’s odor is foul anywhere. Among those who hold open or shut the door to the country’s future, it is insufferable.

  147. @Pincher Martin

    Asians make up only 6 percent of the US population, but over 8 percent of _all_ college students and over 20 percent of the Ivy League student body.

    Last time I was at my Ivy, I was stunned by the number of Asians.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  148. @Abundans Cautela Non Nocet

    “I have always been inspired by the wonder of God’s creation, even down to its smallest parts, but as a Dominican I have begun to see more clearly the place of that creation in His providential order and hope to share the beauty of His loving plan, even down to the smallest individual.”

    Apparently, he let the church destroy his intellect. Also: a monastery with monk profiles? This is why I didn’t convert to the Roman church. It is dead and a piece of the world.

  149. @PhysicistDave

    Great couple of comments, this one and the health care one.

    IMHO, the biggest part of the answer is

    the “proletarianization” of life that glorified the ignorant and stupid masses

    of which, the sacralization of worst aspects of Negro culture has been no small part.

  150. Mike1 says:
    @Clifford Brown

    This is another example of how deep and pervasive fraud is in our society. Gregory Abbott is extensively quoted in the WSJ article Steve quoted in a different article basically saying “Oh man, I paid the Singer guy for legit help and the FBI picked me up just for being around him”. Abbott is (as he knows) on wiretaps enthusiastically participating in the fraud.
    There is zero chance the WSJ has not also read the same document that I have yet they let Abbott ramble on proclaiming his innocence with no push back. The FBI went to slightly comical efforts to get these people to say “yeah I did it” when Singer flipped.

  151. @Anonymous

    “It would be good if the government got out”

    But then the government couldn’t push the idea of “We’re all equal”

    I have known young people who dropped out of STEM studies and had ACT test scores of at least 30 with 34 math ACT.

    Of course then those schools would want stem dropouts to continue in Liberal Arts (social studies etc).

    I lost $150,000 on the college scam.

    I could not get access to grades. If I had access and knew what was going on I would have immediately
    discontinued tuition payments.

    If you have children in college and are paying the bills you owe it to yourself to monitor progress.

  152. Ron Unz says:
    @education realist

    All that said, Asians have their own cheating networks

    Sure, that’s perfectly possible. But I’ve seen absolutely zero evidence that East Asians are more likely to cheat that whites, and quite a lot of indications in the opposite direction.

    “Educational Realist” has always struck me as a total crank, and an anti-Asian one at that, presumably angry because (apparently) the best job she(?) can get is providing extra tutoring Asian students.

    As I demonstrated in my long Meritocracy article, Asian students are considerably under-represented at elite universities relative to their NMS or Olympiad performance, so if they’re cheating in their admissions, it certainly hasn’t been very effective. And it seems extremely implausible that significant numbers would cheat on the NMS, while Olympiad cheating is essentially impossible.

    It’s certainly possible to argue that much of the Asian performance it due to their more intensive studying, but it’s foolish to call that “cheating.” And if that’s the case, then ER is a member of that “cheating” industry.

  153. Bill says:
    @Rational

    The public thinks, if they are all evil, why am I a sucker to play by the rules

    The public should think that. I’m not so sure they do.

  154. Ron Unz says:

    Actually, I don’t think it’s at all surprising that the bulk of Singer’s business operation would have been legitimate (if somewhat disreputable) admissions consulting.

    I think Steve and others have pointed out that it’s often quite useful for an illegal business to be closely associated with a somewhat similar legal one, with the latter providing effective marketing and “cover.”

    For example, a massage parlor may draw in large numbers of clients, only a fraction of whom are willing to pay much more to go to a back room for a “special massage.”

    Similarly, the vast majority of Singer’s clients may have been affluent parents paying a few thousand dollars for admissions strategy advice. But Singer or his top aides then gradually sounded out a small fraction of these as being willing to offer vastly larger sums for test-bribery or admissions-bribery.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the former group were 95% of the clients, but the latter group provided Singer with 95% of his profits. So probably most of Singer’s employees were just being used as “cover,” much like the ordinary employees of a nightclub owned by the mafia as a money-laundering operation. Since Singer’s profits from the illegal side of his business were so enormous, he’d have absolutely no reason to nickel-and-dime his legitimate employees, and was therefore probably a pretty generous boss.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    , @Twinkie
  155. @Ron Unz

    Dude, a guy who writes several billion words on Jewish conspiracies has no business calling me a crank. You’ve gone so far off the deep end it’s freaky to watch and makes me wonder about the wisdom of commenting here. HBD is one thing. What you’re doing is a whole different thang, and there’s a few nasty names for it.

    Furthermore, if you’re going to generalize, do so accurately. I’ve been a teacher for ten years, something I’ve mentioned regularly at your site. When I was a tutor, I had a great life that paid quite well and didn’t require me to work too hard. And now I work more with a wider range of students (but still lots of Asians) and get quite a bit more money, with lots of vacation time and a pension. I’m not and never have been bitter; I love my job and have written many pieces about how much fun it is–tutoring, when I did it, test prep, and teaching. I don’t consider test prep cheating.

    I’ve also said many times that the Asian obsession with good grades and scores, achieved however, is precisely what leads to discrimination against them, which adds even more to the pressure.

    You’re not really worth concerning myself about, but in the event anyone sane still reads here, other than Steve and a few others, I write a lot about Asians and school and test prep because it’s an area I know a lot about, and that many others don’t. I don’t hate Asians in the slightest, nor am I obsessed with them–and again, given Ron’s own writing, he ain’t the one to talk about obsession. He’s written several million more words about the evil of Jews than I’ve written about Asians, period, good or bad.

    • Agree: Triumph104
    • LOL: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Twinkie
  156. @Lurker

    Good point. Today’s colleges would be improved if sports scholarships were banned and Coach’s salaries were capped at $150,000. If the NCAA can ban students from being paid , even banning them from endorsing products, they should limit coach and athletic director salaries.

  157. Bill says:
    @SimpleSong

    Whites are right not to trust the medical system, especially w.r.t. organ donation. “Death” is shockingly flexibly defined. It’s normal, for example, to administer anesthesia to “dead” patients when harvesting their organs in order to suppress the “dead” patient’s pain response. Can’t have the “corpse” start crying and screaming when you’re cutting “its” liver out.

    Similar things are true w.r.t. euthanasia which is common-though-illegal in the US. Blacks are right not to trust the medical system here, either. When the financial arrow points that way, hospitals and doctors can become quite enthusiastic about DNR orders plus lots and lots of opiods.

  158. @Pincher Martin

    “You haven’t ignored the topic. ”

    Given that you just charged me with ignoring the topic, that’s a nice flip.

    I also haven’t ignored the demographics of the case. In fact, I mentioned that it was interesting the feds chose to focus on a white network. However, it turns out they were actually originally focusing on an Asian/Chinese network as well.

    See, when the media doesn’t mention race, it’s because they *aren’t* white.

    When I don’t mention race, it’s because they *are* white and thus just one of a million different behaviors that constitute white Americans. That’s why it’s absurd for you to say this is massive. “Massive” in white America would involve thousands, or tens of thousands, to say that it’s part of a cultural trend. This is 50. Why is it so small? I said why–because *really* rich parents just buy their way in with a building. A lot of the rest have kids who are competitive. So this needs to be kids who aren’t old money or venture capital rich, but also aren’t necessarily bright or motivated enough to do it on their own.

    Again, that’s white folks, for the most part. But *all* white folks, or even a clear subset? No.

    I mean, getting your kid in as an athlete? That’s not the first, second, or tenth thing that Asian parents would consider, it seems to me.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  159. @Jack D

    (you do realize that wasn’t my quote, right? I was retweeting. My comment was above it and I said much the same thing you did. Except I don’t think the people were cheap, but simply not rich enough.)

  160. Bill says:
    @KL

    Yeah, I picked up on that, too. Maybe a typo?

  161. Bill says:
    @Desiderius

    Well, you can tell yourself that. But the lying rots your soul all the same. And the next lie to game the next grift comes easier. And the next easier. “Everybody lies” is the motto of every conman ever.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  162. Anonymous[178] • Disclaimer says:

    In all fairness, John McWhorter’s observations about his Asian students at Berkeley in Losing the Race, are in line with Education Realist. He conceded that most of his black students didn’t even belong at Berkeley and that Asians collected most of the high grades in his classes. However, he also observed that a disproportionate number of these Asian students slogged through on long hours of study and memorization without developing a true intellectual interest in the subject matter. Although McWhorter doesn’t state it expressly, you can read between the lines and infer that he wasn’t all that excited about a long career at a plurality Asian university. He left for Columbia shortly after the book was published. FWIW

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  163. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Educational Realist” has always struck me as a total crank, and an anti-Asian one at that, presumably angry because (apparently) the best job she(?) can get is providing extra tutoring Asian students.

    Cheap shot, Ron.

    • Agree: JMcG
  164. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @education realist

    Dude, a guy who writes several billion words on Jewish conspiracies has no business calling me a crank.

    Cheap shot, education realist.

    What is the source of your knowledge of the issues Ron writes about? You must consider yourself knowledgeable on these issues in order to be in a position to judge him as a “crank” or to disparage the ideas as “conspiracies.” So tell us, what is your basis for judgment?

  165. Inez Feltscher Stepman may have a clumsy name, but has a smooth takedown of the scandal that academia doesn’t so much have, as is:

    …nobody has ever gone broke betting against Republican backbones…

    It makes no sense for a Republican majority to hand out subsidies to the breeding grounds of their political opponents. It makes even less sense for Americans making the average household income of $60,000 to subsidize the elite’s women’s studies degrees.

    This is the new feudalism…

    The bribery case making headlines just might be the least fraudulent thing about higher education.

    http://thefederalist.com/2019/03/14/biggest-higher-education-scam-isnt-hollywood-fraud-academia/

  166. @Peter Akuleyev

    Most Asian Americans don’t really know how to game the system. They are probably cheating the old fashioned way – cheating on tests, inflated grades, paying grad students to write their essays.

    If you read into Singer’s background, it sounds like this was also his company’s standard practice. His employees did all these things for his company’s clients.

    The sports stuff and the large bribes have gotten most of the headlines, but Singer took a comprehensive approach on behalf for his clients.

  167. @Anonymous

    In all fairness, John McWhorter’s observations about his Asian students at Berkeley in Losing the Race, are in line with Education Realist. He conceded that most of his black students didn’t even belong at Berkeley and that Asians collected most of the high grades in his classes. However, he also observed that a disproportionate number of these Asian students slogged through on long hours of study and memorization without developing a true intellectual interest in the subject matter.

    Education Realist’s arguments go far beyond this.

  168. @Hodag

    From the news I’ve read about Singer’s company, it doesn’t sound like he often needed someone working on his behalf inside the admissions’ department. Yeah, if his client had money to burn, he could pay off a coach to circumvent the normal application procedure. But otherwise, he typically did the same things that most cheaters try to do – like having someone take the test for the kid, puffing up the kid’s application, trying to find those majors (e.g. women’s studies, sociology) that make it easier for the kid to gain admission and then padding the application with enough stuff to make that stated major believable, etc. Singer’s company just did it more comprehensively.

  169. @Ron Unz

    This case dovetails with your research and writings about our “meritocracy,” and elite college admissions.

    However, this scandal is getting infinitely more media coverage than the very real admissions discrimination agains East Asians, and the very large favoritism toward Jews vs. gentile whites. You have made it clear that these two aspects of admissions corruption dwarf anything on the scale of Mr. Singer’s operation.

    Furthermore, what little attention has been paid only covers the East Asian part, as far as I have seen. There has been no mention in our mainstream media at all about the massive favoritism toward Jewish applicants, which is made obvious by the chart:

    Our government and the similarly “owned” press probably never will investigate that.

  170. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Lurker

    This, and, the last few school scandals were also about athletic departments.

  171. MattinTX says:
    @Anon

    I applied to college, truthfully, as a Hispanic/Latino (my mom’s family is from Mexico). I am white and have an English first and last name. Not one person involved in any university, ever, checked to see if I was telling the truth. In fact, I joined the Hispanic/Latino association at college because one of my (drinking) buddies asked me to. Not one of the *students* there said a word.

  172. Ron Unz says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    However, this scandal is getting infinitely more media coverage than the very real admissions discrimination agains East Asians, and the very large favoritism toward Jews vs. gentile whites. You have made it clear that these two aspects of admissions corruption dwarf anything on the scale of Mr. Singer’s operation…Furthermore, what little attention has been paid only covers the East Asian part, as far as I have seen. There has been no mention in our mainstream media at all about the massive favoritism toward Jewish applicants

    I’m utterly, *utterly* shocked!

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
  173. Ron Unz says:
    @Hodag

    East Asians do not make up a lot of the drones that make up the admissions department…These positions are mostly Jewish women from upper middle class backgrounds whose parents pay their rent. They also tend to be otherwise unemployable due to gender studies/English/ et al degrees.

    Actually, according to the first-hand accounts, the truth is actually far more shocking than that. A few long excerpts from my long 2012 Meritocracy article:

    In fact, it seems likely that some of these obvious admissions biases we have noticed may be related to the poor human quality and weak academic credentials of many of the university employees making these momentous decisions. As mentioned above, the job of admissions officer is poorly paid, requires no professional training, and offers few opportunities for career advancement; thus, it is often filled by individuals with haphazard employment records. As one of the “Little Ivies,” Wesleyan is among America’s most prestigious liberal arts colleges, and Steinberg’s description of the career paths of its handful of admissions officers is eye-opening: the interim Director of Admissions had most recently screened food-stamp recipients and run a psychiatric half-way house; another had worked as an animal control officer and managed a camera store; a third unsuccessfully sought a job as a United Airlines flight attendant; others were recent college graduates, whose main college interests had been sports or ethnic studies.

    * * *

    We should also note that although admissions officers are poorly paid, earning less than public school teachers,[94] they nevertheless control a very valuable resource. According to Steinberg’s account, when individual officers are particularly forceful in their advocacy for an obviously under-qualified applicant, their colleagues regularly ask them, perhaps jokingly, “how much are they paying you to get that student admitted?”[95] Indeed, Golden states that admissions officers at top universities are constantly being offered explicit bribes, sometimes even including promises of houses or cruises.[96] And although Steinberg’s presentation of Wesleyan’s admissions practices was glowingly favorable, it may have been more than pure coincidence that the particular admissions officer who was the focus of his reporting decided to seek employment elsewhere just before the book was scheduled to appear in print.[97]

    * * *

    A more explicit statement of this exact problem is found in A for Admission, a very candid 1997 description of the admissions process at elite private universities written by Michele A. Hernandez, who had spent four years as Dartmouth’s Assistant Director of Admissions. Near the beginning of her book, Hernandez explains that over half of Ivy League admissions officers are individuals who had not attended such academically challenging universities, nor probably had the intellectual capability to do so, and were sometimes confused about the relative ranking of SAT scores and other basic academic credentials. She also cautions students to avoid any subtlety in their essays, lest their words be misunderstood by their readers in the admissions office, whose degrees are more likely to have been in education than in any serious academic discipline.[102]

    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/#p_1_133

  174. @Buzz Mohawk

    However, this scandal is getting infinitely more media coverage than the very real admissions discrimination agains East Asians, and the very large favoritism toward Jews vs. gentile whites.

    That may change now that class action lawsuits have begun.

    I think think this is just the beginning of a long overdue thaw of the education fraud glacier, which encompasses not only admissions and cheating but also athletics, the dilution of standards, predatory student loan practices, and so forth; the list goes on and on. And just as the Jussie Smollett case awakened the wider world to the reality of hate hoaxes, so now will a bunch of people begin to rethinking everything they assumed they knew about higher education.

    The dominoes will start to fall with increasing rapidity as we head into the 2020s. The collapse of the monumental fraud which is Tesla will crack the dam of the phony green energy revolution. The coming global recession will reveal the impotence of a listless and profitless Amazon and call into question the entire globalized/e-commerce paradigm. Google and Facebook, increasingly known to be nothing but lame versions of the sci-fi government panopticons of 50 years ago, will be abandoned and fall back to earth, permanently blasting the bloom off the Big Tech rose. In general, many things that have been long out of balance are due to correct.

  175. @Cato

    Cato, nice point. The money gets your child in the front door and your family name on a campus bench, or rose garden .

  176. JMcG says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I agree with ER more than you on the issue at hand: I do, however agree that there are extremely serious problems with ethics in our military and our society at large.
    Just look at the Fat Leonard scandal currently burning its way through the Navy’s officer corps. It is disgraceful, disgusting behavior on the part of people who probably still think themselves above the run of common men.
    The first lies are institutional, and forced from above. Women will not disorder military discipline or effectiveness, and won’t require any unusual accommodation.
    Once you can make yourself believe that, the rest follows. I’ve seen it a hundred times – If the big guys don’t give a f**k, why should I.
    Unfortunately, it’s not the big guys who drown in their berthing compartments. They just get a slightly reduced pension and a good job with Boeing. I hold nine tenths of the current officer class in this country in utter, utter contempt.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  177. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    However, this scandal is getting infinitely more media coverage than the very real admissions discrimination agains East Asians, and the very large favoritism toward Jews vs. gentile whites.

    What about discrimination against Whites in favor of Blacks and Hispanics?

  178. @Twinkie

    With the exception of West Asians – a term few people use when talking about the people of the Middle East – I agree.

  179. @Anon

    Why do you keep talking about only Asian Asian Asian Asian Asian Asian? Do you realize how off-putting your selfishness is?

    I’m white. I also support the U.S. cutting back dramatically on all immigration, including that from high-IQ areas like East Asia and Europe (e.g., Russians, Poles, etc.).

    But I’m not going to lie to make that argument. Nor do I think I have to lie about it. (For that matter if you’re going to lie, then why not claim they are all carriers of the bubonic plaque or something similarly dramatic. That will shut the borders quick enough.)

    • Agree: Twinkie
  180. @Twinkie

    I prefer “Fancy Asians” and “Jungle Asians.”

    I don’t get those on right – maybe it’s not the HBD right – that attribute Asian performance solely to cheating. I would need to see evidence. The evidence we do have shows that Fancy Asians adopted at birth by White families outscore their White peers. I’m also going to go out on a limb and speculate that people given up for adoption – in any society – do not disproportionately come from the cognitive elite. (The shape of the Asian IQ curve – ie narrower – is another matter). There’s also mental reaction times, brain size, GWAS scores, et al. Everything points to at least a small (Fancy) Asian advantage. In sum, even in a perfect world we would expect Asians to produce more people that are college material/IQ >115. When people point to Black-White adoption studies as evidence of genetic differences but then turnaround and dismiss the same types of studies done with Asians, and instead attribute Asian performance to cheating, it ruins their credibility.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  181. Twinkie says:
    @Ron Unz

    This is similar to how some international arms dealing used to work back in the day. Certain arms dealers engaged in normal arms dealing as well as gray market operations (semi-covertly buying and selling on behalf of national government agencies, often intel elements) and this in turn provided cover for black market operations. National governments could not go after them for the latter, because that would expose their own dealings with the dealers.

  182. Twinkie says:
    @Old Prude

    I cheated at West Point, but only in Gymnnastics.

    Did you try cheating at boxing?

  183. @education realist

    Given that you just charged me with ignoring the topic, that’s a nice flip.

    I’ve not flipped anything. We were discussing the demographics of the case. You’ve ignored that aspect of what happened here – except for one brief tweet, which I did not see until you posted it here, where you mildly express surprise that the perps are not Chinese.

    Had the indicted been heavily Chinese, I’m absolutely certain you would have written a tsunami of words telling everyone how it supported your theory about Asian cheating.

    I mean, getting your kid in as an athlete? That’s not the first, second, or tenth thing that Asian parents would consider, it seems to me.

    Yeah, they’re way too dumb to figure that out, aren’t they? I guess it never occurred to Asian-Americans to look up how Harvard and Yale and Dartmouth were admitting its students. And then to game the system.

    When I don’t mention race, it’s because they *are* white and thus just one of a million different behaviors that constitute white Americans. That’s why it’s absurd for you to say this is massive. “Massive” in white America would involve thousands, or tens of thousands, to say that it’s part of a cultural trend. This is 50.

    I meant the cheating was massive in that these 50 parents who were arrested went to a great deal of trouble and expense to get their kids into school. Far more trouble and expense than you have ever alleged about the run-of-the-mill cheating done by Chinese parents. These white parents didn’t get arrested for just having a proctor sit with their kids during the SAT. This was a case of massive cheating on a much different scale.

    But you are also underplaying how widespread is the corruption. Singer’s company has been in business for 24 years. The fifty who were indicted were just the worst of the recent cases that the FBI could prove. If parents didn’t have the money to pay for Singer’s bribes, there were smaller unethical measures his company could take to help facilitate a student’s entry into a good school. But the FBI isn’t going to concern itself with every trivial infraction. They went after the big fish.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  184. Anonymous[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I went to the boat school and I can believe it. However, I think you are really mistaking a single or very rare slip (still wrong and not in the spirit of the Code) versus the general moral climate. You can walk up to a random student at a football game, in a uniform without name tag, and give him money to convey to “your son Bill Door” in Third Company. And have complete confidence it will get there. All that said, I do think the places needs to have a strengthened honor code (“concept” for the squids).

    I will also say that the mood of the place is different socially than East Coast Ivies or the like. “Other school’s, it’s money. Here it’s guts.” Remember my sister blathering about some son of a foreign president at her school (notable name). But at Canoe U., it wouldn’t have meant a thing who your daddy was. If anything, would have meant some moderate extra ribbing. It was a shock to me to see the difference of the East Coast (NY and Boston) world when I went to New London and socialized with some. It was fine, we didn’t fit into their hierarchy and were (reasonably) desirable to the women.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    , @JMcG
  185. Twinkie says:
    @education realist

    I’m not and never have been bitter

    I don’t consider test prep cheating.

    Wow, the chutzpah is astounding. Anyone can look up your past comments that directly contradict the above statements and many other unwarranted assertions you have made over the years.

    You whined on these very electronic pages that:

    1. You and your son did not get into elite universities, because you didn’t grind,
    2. They should be letting in people who “had lives” instead of grinding in high school (hm, suspiciously sounds self-referential),
    3. You really, really, really “love” your Asian students, but that they are just massive cheaters AND you let it slip that you try to make their lives miserable (which led another commenter to opine that you are “a nasty piece of work”), and
    4. You immediately resort to ad hominem as soon as someone contradicts you, especially with quantifiable evidence.
    5. Constantly complain that every anti-mainstream idea about education is yours and cry about Mr. Sailer not crediting you for this astounding originality.

    Nope, doesn’t sound like a bitter shrew who’s taking out her perceived lack of recognition as a genius on her more successful and harder-working students.

    I know, I know. As you once wrote “Even when he [I] quotes me [you], he’s lying.”

    Oh, and you are on record as stating numerous times that Asian test prep is “gaming” the system and is in essence cheating. Good try on backtracking when cornered… again. But I am counting on you to be back on your same tricks again in the future.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  186. Anonymous[269] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave

    I hear this a lot from physicists but in reality it’s a lot more competitive than a lot let on. Had a buddy who went to Goldman. (In addition, a lot of these jobs have dried up since EMH is stronger than knowing how to solve the heat equation.)

  187. Twinkie says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    The evidence we do have shows that Fancy Asians adopted at birth by White families outscore their White peers.

    Why, that just shows that they are incorrigible cheaters unaffected by upbringing and culture. It’s in their DNA!

    There’s also mental reaction times, brain size, GWAS scores, et al. Everything points to at least a small (Fancy) Asian advantage.

    Gobbledygook, gobbledegook!

    The shape of the Asian IQ curve – ie narrower – is another matter

    On a more serious note, what little data that exists on that seems to indicate the opposite – that IQ variance is greater among Asians.

  188. @Twinkie

    “The point is that the term “Asians” contains a lot of different kinds of ethnicities with very different tendencies.”

    Yes Twinkie, I know. It’s funny I never see you complain about the broad brush stroke term “Asian” when they are being referred to in a positive way.

    “So the overall picture of, say, 6.1% Asian at West Point vs. 6.9% (including non-citizens) of the whole U.S. population doesn’t quite capture the variety in patriotism.”

    Nor does it prove that “Asians” are wrongly associated with a higher rate of cheating to gain access to American universities, which is the topic.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  189. @JMcG

    I don’t think it’s that bad, but I do agree that the U.S., which was once a high trust society, is becoming increasingly fractured – not to a dangerous degree (yet), but to the degree that we trust each other less than we once did.

  190. @Anonymous

    You can walk up to a random student at a football game, in a uniform without name tag, and give him money to convey to “your son Bill Door” in Third Company. And have complete confidence it will get there.

    I believe you. My point was not to disparage the men and women in uniform, but to show how prevalent these forms of cheating and lying are everywhere in our society, and to point out how unfair it is to target Asian-Americans for what is so commonly found even in the best places.

  191. Anonymous[141] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    If you read his blog post about showing movies to kids in cram school, it is pretty obvious that he has affection for the students. Doesn’t mean every argument us statistically valid, but you might drop the aggrieved victim shtick. Doesn’t play here.

    Now go destroy his statistics. But don’t cry. This isn’t that Wikipedia or a knitting blog.

  192. @Buzz Mohawk

    All that to show off, because an engineer would positively, absolutely need not the powerful tool a slide rule still is to essentially do small, likely whole numbers times two and a half (plus 1/25 if precision is really needed, which it isn’t — differences in how the undies were made by the different countries, or even by different brands, would make it pointless).

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  193. Twinkie says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    It’s funny I never see you complain about the broad brush stroke term “Asian” when they are being referred to in a positive way.

    I see you read very selectively.

    Nor does it prove that “Asians” are wrongly associated with a higher rate of cheating to gain access to American universities, which is the topic.

    Look up mismatch.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  194. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @stevecel

    that would give away the game.

    What is the game?

    Even if Asians were the noblest people on Earth it wouldn’t matter because you can’t win wars.

    Sure they can. China, Japan, Korea are formidable warriors.

    But. What is the relevance of winning wars to what you are writing here?

  195. @Captain Tripps

    There is a lot I don’t know. By the time he was commissioned, it was late in the war but nobody knew it. They all thought they were going to have to attack the Japanese mainland, so I guess it was Nimitz’s Navy.

    It seems like he went all over the place afterwards. Met my mother in Jacksonville. Later he got called back for Korea. Over there, his destroyer was alongside a carrier at one point. At times they were looking for submarines, while at other times they were shelling the coast.

    FWIW his ship earned the “E,” and he was proud of that. Nothing to do with action, just a well run ship.

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
  196. @Don't Look at Me

    So the punch line is that it is really 2*pi*r?

    Even if they made this mistake it was probably just popping off without thinking about the question hard enough.

    I guess the punchline is that this queston has been used as part of the pre-employment exam for small industry where simple mistakes, such as cutting a piece of rod two inches too short, accumulate and cause excessive cost and/or shoddy product.

    Another funny thing about this question is that it is iconic of cargo cult education. Too many people remember the phrase pi-r-squared without even thinking about what it means, and thusly faux knowledge is passed on whenever some educated person hears the trigger word “circle” and parrots pi-r-squared.

    So the question is more than a simple test of knowledge; it actually measures whether the so-called knowledge has any worth … and whether the subject should be entrusted with more important decisions.

    It’s not that it happens to the best of us. Oh, wait, it is. It is that it happens to the best of us. Too much rote and not enough thinking and you have our political talking heads aptly described.

    Consider the anti-Semite label and how easy it is to smear someone. Consider that the best of us can hardly determine whether a stance is anti-Semitic or rather just anti-torture/ abuse/genocide carried out by immature, self-righteous Zionists.

    Of course, I passed the math test, I know what numbers mean and how they are used, and I know that oppressive piggery occurs even in people who refuse to eat pork on religious grounds. I refuse to eat pork for the reason I don’t like the taste.

    Back to little miss makeup, I doubt she would write down the wrong answer. She’s too busy doing the important things in college, such as game days and partying, to worry about akshual knowledge and stuff. I’m inclined to believe she doesn’t know enough even to be wrong. I doubt she realizes that the shallowness of her insouciance has landed her in water deeper than those around her USC Dean’s yacht, and there be sharks.

    If this reply sounds all huffy and ridicule riven, please accept my apology and the statement that none of it is directed at you. You had the decency to ask, and my stuff is full of irony and multiple meanings.

  197. @adreadline

    Yes, I know. He did it to be funny.

  198. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Yeah, they’re way too dumb to figure that out, aren’t they? I guess it never occurred to Asian-Americans to look up how Harvard and Yale and Dartmouth were admitting its students. And then to game the system.

    This just goes to show how lacking she is in objective knowledge regarding Asian-American students and parents.

    I went to Stuyvesant HS in the 80’s. Most ambitious and competitive Asian kids there were in athletics. Some were in swimming, others in wrestling. Yet others in fencing. There were even some in football or basketball (though Stuy had no football field and those two were jokes competitively in any case). And there were decent Asian cross country and long distance track runners too.

    I did Judo competitively (and privately) and was nationally ranked. They and I all knew even back then that the elite universities wanted “well-rounded” and that athletics were a big part of that.

    One of my roommates at my Ivy alma mater was an Asian from Hawaii and was the state wrestling champ in his weight category, and was recruited to wrestle for the university. He had a pretty good collegiate wrestling career and is a veterinarian now.

    Rich Chinese in China today are now putting money into their kids’ equestrian skills to gain an edge in admissions: https://jingdaily.com/harvard-and-horses-polo-aims-to-attract-chinas-new-nobility/

  199. @Twinkie

    You Rich Chinese ever thought of creating your own institutions? I mean supposedly you’re all smart enough, right? Not like there aren’t enough of you to make up for any discrepancy there anyway. It seems bizarre that everyone the world over insists on a Northeastern Protestant education. The books all say the same thing no matter where they are, you know.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  200. @Anon

    Heartiste is interesting. Apparently, you are not. I speak English, not received science. Take it as you will.

  201. @Almost Missouri

    AM, thanks so much for this — it’s very gracious of you to take the time to write this up.

    Your observations are spot-on, as the denizens of that scepter’d isle might say (although I’m not sure their Caledonian cousins use that expression as well).

    Hong Kong kids who go overseas for university seem about equally comfortable with US and UK paths; you’re certainly right about that. Having a UK degree is no problem here; it’s likely a slight advantage over a US degree from anywhere other than the most famous US universities.

    You’re absolutely right to identify the potential insularity of the St Andrews environment as a sticking point. Daughter C is a city girl, and she knows it would be an acute lifestyle change to end up somewhere like St Andrews (or Hillsdale, MI, for that matter).

    And the tips on the social scene are great; it does my heart good to hear that young ladies are expected to drink halves! This does not seem to be the case south of the borders.

    Finally, thanks for the Edinburgh tip as well. When Daughter C applies to universities in the UK, she can only choose five, and Edinburgh is one we’re also considering. It’s got that long-term reputation as one of the best, but in the current rankings it’s slipped quite a bit. I’m getting the impression, though, that UK rankings have more churn year-by-year than US ones do, and that lots of people in the UK ignore these vagaries and pay more attention to the traditional reputations.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  202. @Buzz Mohawk

    Thank you for sharing; the Japanese had a formidable submarine force and surface fleet late into the war (their carriers didn’t have much teeth; their pilots were too green – what was left of them after the Battle of the Philippines; but there were still a handful of battleships, cruisers and plenty of destroyers lurking about), so that was serious business in the Pacific while he was there.

  203. JMcG says:
    @Anonymous

    Serious question: Suppose the father is an Admiral, instead of a politician? How does John McCain happen? Is it just a different way of creating a class of untouchables?

  204. @Twinkie

    “I see you read very selectively.”

    Ok Twinkles.

    “Look up mismatch.”

    Nah. The other commenter can do his own legwork if he would like to provide evidence for his claims.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  205. @No guac for me, please

    Twinkie’s not Chinese, neither ethnically nor legally.

    He’s American. He’s lived here as long as I have and knows the place as well as I do. He’s served in the armed forces and put his life on the line for this country, which is more than I can say.

  206. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Nah. The other commenter can do his own legwork if he would like to provide evidence for his claims.

    Evidence has been provided. You just don’t understand what evidence is.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  207. @Pincher Martin

    “It conforms to the publicly-released list of the fifty people who have been arrested in this case. So unless you believe the FBI chose to focus on arresting white parents in this case – and perhaps you’re dumb enough to believe this – I see no reason to doubt the commentator’s perception.”

    I’m not doubting the commenter’s perception, I’m saying his experience isn’t indicative of any larger trend, due to how narrow the sample is. 50 names out of what? Half a million total college applications per year?

    “That’s silly. Why would Black and Hispanic parents seek out Singer’s business when the US government and nearly all U.S. universities are already on their side with affirmative action? Any marginally-smart and academically-engaged Black or Hispanic kid will find all the help he needs without going to someone like Singer. They don’t need to go outside the system when the system is already helping them.”

    Fair enough.

    “You completely misunderstood the reason I chose the service academies. I picked them precisely because they have very few Asians students, and yet they are still hard to get into. ”

    How can you compare the extent of Asian cheating to white cheating, by monitoring cheating at an institution with no Asians? Have you monitored the inverse? (Majority Asian, minority white institution, if it exists) I’m not disputing that whites cheat, the question is who cheats more. Referencing service academies doesn’t support or impede your position. It’s a waste of time.

    “No, but neither did Education Realist and that didn’t stop you from defending his argument.”

    Not quite. The basis of my original contention was that you proclaimed the issue settled based upon the fact that 90% + of the 50 names on the list were white (sounding). 50 names out of the total annual college applicants is insignificant.

    “If the kids can cheat when attending a service academy with an honor code, they certainly aren’t going to have any qualms cheating to get into a service academy.”

    Hey poopy pants, if you have no proof they cheated to get into the academy, you don’t have jack shit! It doesn’t support your theory!

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  208. @Pincher Martin

    Yes, you claimed that Asians don’t cheat as much as whites to get into college, by referencing military academies where there are few Asians, and further by citing responses from polls within the academies that showed cadets have broken their various honor codes, but don’t actually specify that they cheated to get into college.

    That is not evidence. That is conjecture. Try again.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  209. e says:
    @KL

    I agree. I thought the same thing.

  210. @The Last Real Calvinist

    “Hong Kong kids who go overseas for university seem about equally comfortable with US and UK paths”

    Come to think of it, one of my buddies in Scotland was a Hong Kong kid. Last I heard, he ran off to South America with a sultry Latina, so I can’t say how it all turned out for him.
    … Or maybe that was how it all turned out for him.

    “the St Andrews environment as a sticking point”

    A lot depends on whether you “click” (clique) with a social group or not. If you do, it can be a welcome refuge in the hurly burly, if you don’t, it can be hard to break in later. This is not necessarily unique to St. Andrews. Britain in general is a very inside/outside society. There are unspoken but well understood lines of who is an insider and who is an outsider out everywhere you go. More so with the English than the Scots, but the top Scottish universities get a lot of spillover English (such as Prince William). Social groups tend to form early and permanently, so I would advise the new student to take every social opportunity at first, because you never know how you’ll fit in. Indeed, the fact that St. Andrews now apparently has a significant American admixture might mean that small town St. Andrews has more of the social fluidity characteristic of Americans than other UK Uni’s.

    “young ladies are expected to drink halves”

    Yes, I should have said that for men, tourists and the terminally ill may be exceptions.

    That

    John Stuart Mill of his own free will
    On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill

    takes on new meaning in light of this. Shandy is lemonade beer for the young or convalescing, so for Mill to get particularly ill on a doubly milquetoast drink (shandyhalf pint) makes him a doubly milquetoast philosopher in the Scots-heavy Australian analysis.

    “This does not seem to be the case south of the borders”

    No, it’s not. And misguided English girls thinking they are one of the lads by keeping up in pints are to the benefit of grooming gangs everywhere.

    “thanks for the Edinburgh tip”

    Edinburgh is another place I can wax lyrical about indefinitely. It along with Prague and a few others, is among the last jewel cities of Europe: as yet unwrecked by modernism, redevelopment and diversity. Or at least they were when last I saw them.

    I don’t know how to keep up on UK Uni rankings, so I don’t. In my mind a lot depends of one’s field of study anyway, which you have to declare early in the UK. My general impression is that when I was there, Edinburgh was the top Scot, but that St. Andrews had embarked on a Duke U-like path of improvement through subtle glamorization, which the Royal patronage no doubt helped along, with William’s finding of his Royal consort and apparently happy marriage and family being the lucky icing on the cake. Anyhow, the William+Kate story did a lot to cement the romantic image of St Andrews in the popular imagination.

    Actually, the case of Prince William may be instructive here. Prince Billy wasn’t just a city kid, he was the son of one of the most publicly socially busy families on the planet. The eldest son of Princess Diana and the certain heir to the Throne cannot leave the door but it causes a stir in the national media. I have no doubt that four formative years in the relative obscurity of St. Andrews was a tremendous blessing for him. It may have even saved him from becoming a Prince Andrew-like f***-up, though sadly Harry may now go the Andrew route…

    Anyhow, Edinburgh/St Andrews, both great places, can’t really go wrong IMHO. I was going to say that it’s a pity the UK is unfriendly to transferring Uni’s if one changes one’s mind, but then I remembered it’s actually not too hard for foreign students. In fact, I did it myself, so it can’t be too hard. As I recall, so long as I met the academic requirements and showed ’em the money, they just waved me in. And I didn’t even have to visit Rick Singer.

    Finally, the weather. If Daughter C is used to the sultry breezes and dappled sunlight of the South China Sea and the Pearl River Delta, she’s in for a shock against the North Sea and the Firth of Forth: wind, cold, rain and dark. A lot of it. My advice: embrace the suck. If you don’t learn to like it, it can drive a man to drink. In fair weather, Scotland is stunningly beautiful. But even in foul weather, it has a brooding enchantment, if you are open to it. Borrow a page from the Scots’s Irish cousins:

    Sing O Let man learn liberty
    From crashing winds and lashing sea!

    Embrace the wind, dark and gales that formed John Knox and other OG Calvinist Reformers!

    But seriously, if she starts feeling down while there, get her some high quality vitamin D in capsule form. It can make a noticeable difference and bridge her over until she can refill the sunlight tank.

  211. @MikeatMikedotMike

    I’m not doubting the commenter’s perception, I’m saying his experience isn’t indicative of any larger trend, due to how narrow the sample is. 50 names out of what? Half a million total college applications per year?

    You are doubting the commentator’s experience. He doesn’t rely on the 50 parents (and coaches) who have been indicted after using Singer’s company to facilitate their bribes on behalf of their children; he also cites his own experience working in the company. The two aren’t the same thing.

    Without any comprehensive study of the demographics of cheating, and I’m not aware of any, this is the best any of us can do. You find as many examples as you can and see which way they run. Education Realist often cites news stories of Asians cheating to support her thesis, but she is silent whenever the demographics of these cheating scandals run in the opposite direction.

    How can you compare the extent of Asian cheating to white cheating, by monitoring cheating at an institution with no Asians?

    If we can find a lot of egregious examples of cheating at all-white or mostly-white academic institutions – the kind of examples that suggest the cheaters were comfortable working together in their deception until they got caught – then you can’t blame this culture of cheating on Asians. Why? Because Asians don’t attend those schools in numbers that could possibly make a difference to these particular examples – examples which show whites working together by the dozens to cheat.

    Education Realist’s argument is that Asian students are inherently given to cheating in ways that would shock most white Americans. This tendency to cheat is so pronounced among them in her mind that it affects the entire academic culture in U.S. schools, from applying to college to studying for tests taken in high school. This explains why she’s indifferent when what appear to be highly-qualified Asian-American applicants are rejected by good schools. She feels that this racial trait of cheating is deep and wide enough that Asian-American applicants are guilty until proven innocent.

    If you read Education Realist long enough, you’ll discover that she really doesn’t like how hard many fresh-off-the-boat Asian-Americans work to succeed. She believes they ought to be watching more TV in order to blend in with the lazier elements of American society. I prefer assimilation which doesn’t reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator.

    Not quite. The basis of my original contention was that you proclaimed the issue settled based upon the fact that 90% + of the 50 names on the list were white (sounding). 50 names out of the total annual college applicants is insignificant.

    I was deliberately provocative. Education Realist is wrong about Asian-Americans, but she’s probably right if we focus just on Chinese international students in the U.S. She might even be right if we extend her argument to first-generation Chinese-American citizens who were naturalized only recently.

    Hey poopy pants, if you have no proof they cheated to get into the academy, you don’t have jack shit! It doesn’t support your theory!

    Remember what I said about your wife, meathead Mike.

  212. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Yes, you claimed that Asians don’t cheat as much as whites to get into college…

    You’re full of shit. I made no such claim. I simply rejected Education Realist’s theory that Asians have a pronounced tendency to cheat and that this explains why they are so successful in school.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  213. @Alan Mercer

    Alan Mercer wrote to me:

    Tell us again about your PhD. Is it in physics? Where from?

    Well… in this context, corruption at elite colleges, it is kinda relevant, especially since I did see extensive corruption at Stanford.

    I mean, if you talked about the corruption you saw at Shihole Community College, that would not be so relevant to this story, now would it?

  214. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    I didn’t realize her gender was an open secret here

    I was not the first person to guess, rather quickly, that she was a woman based on the, pardon the stereotype, hysterics of some of her writings.

    ER is smart and well-educated

    No analysis or evidence from you, no matter how objective and fair-minded, will help you to dig it out. That bad idea is there to stay until she finally takes the long dirt nap.

    She gets so stuck on these bad ideas that you will begin to question her sanity. The rationalizations she comes up with to defend them will shake you to your core. You will wonder, “Is she insane? How can she possibly think like that?”

    That doesn’t strike me as “smart and well-educated.”

    She’s not a racist or prejudiced.

    I can only evaluate her based on her statements here (I don’t read her blog). And I am not the only person who thinks she has some serious biases against East Asians.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  215. @Almost Missouri

    Come to think of it, one of my buddies in Scotland was a Hong Kong kid. Last I heard, he ran off to South America with a sultry Latina, so I can’t say how it all turned out for him.
    … Or maybe that was how it all turned out for him.

    LOL. That may be one lad who’d embraced his share of the wind, cold, and rain, and decided it was indeed time for a more sultry squeeze.

    I’ve never been to St Andrews, but I visited Edinburgh in just the kind of weather you describe. It’s a formidable but austerely beautiful city. Daughter C, whom I’ve described as a city girl, never the less also likes the ‘on campus’ feel of American universities (as well as the Hogwarts flavor you described earlier), so she might favor St Andrews at this point. We’ll see how it all sorts out later this year.

    If you are interested in checking any of the current UK university rankings, well, those are URLs I have handy:

    The Complete University Guide

    The Guardian University League Tables

    The Times & Sunday Times Good University Guide (this is a someone’s summary of their rankings, since the real thing is subscription-only)

    The Times Higher Education Best Universities in the UK

    There’s a lot of variety. St Andrews ranks anywhere from 3rd to 24th; Edinburgh from 6th to 28th. You’re right, though, that St Andrews seems to be on the rise of late; it’s ahead of Edinburgh in most rankings now.

    Anyway, thanks again for your kind assistance. I did not expect to meet an American on this forum who’d attended St Andrews, but I’m very grateful I have.

  216. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Agreed! (I ran out of the button.)

    Education Realist is wrong about Asian-Americans, but she’s probably right if we focus just on Chinese international students in the U.S. She might even be right if we extend her argument to first-generation Chinese-American citizens who were naturalized only recently.

    I mentioned this several times over the years, but a good proxy for cheating is probably society-wide corruption perceived or experienced by outsiders. There are many ways to measure this, but Transparency International has a survey-based index of long history. Here are the rankings (best to worst) of Asian countries compared to the U.S. and their closest-ranked European countries in 2018: https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018

    3. Singapore (3. Finland, 3. Sweden, 3. Switzerland)
    14. Hong Kong (14. Austria, 14. Iceland)
    18. Japan (18. Estonia, 18. Iceland)
    21. USA (20. France)
    31. Taiwan (30. Portugal, 36. Poland)
    45. South Korea (41. Spain, 53. Italy)
    78. India (77. Bulgaria, 78. Turkey)
    87. China (87. Serbia)
    176. North Korea (no Europeans nearby; tied with 176. Yemen and only better than 178. South Sudan, 178. Syria, 180. Somalia).

    You can guess from this that Singapore, Hong Kong, and Japan probably have somewhat-to-slightly less cheating than the U.S. while Taiwan and South Korea have somewhat more. Meanwhile India and China likely have substantially more. Some of this is ingrained in the cultures, to be sure, but economic development also seems to play a strong role (ranks of those that have undergone recent – and dramatic – economic development, such as Taiwan and South Korea*, have gone up), as demonstrated by the incredible gap between South Korea and North Korea.

    *I saw an interesting social-trust study done in South Korea. It was about leaving out free gifts on an unmonitored table and asking for a donation. The interesting part was that the older Koreans were more likely to take the gifts without donating while the younger ones almost uniformly left donations. In other words, the Korean civic sense seems to have increased quite a bit along with economic development.

  217. @Twinkie

    That doesn’t strike me as “smart and well-educated.”

    I can only evaluate her based on her statements here (I don’t read her blog). And I am not the only person who thinks she has some serious biases against East Asians.

    That’s those “holes in her head” I was talking about. Some smart people have them. Some people might say that Ron Unz has them, to name one other local example.

    ER can be just as dopey on several political and cultural topics that have nothing to do with race. She can argue about them with the same kind of impassioned and tortured reasoning. And then she can have many sharp insights about other political and cultural topics.

    But my own experience debating her is a sense of exasperation whenever she gets onto one of these areas where her brain starts to lock up and she becomes impervious to evidence and reasoning.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  218. @Pincher Martin

    Many of those who admitted cheating may just have done it once or twice, at a trivial level, and are just the guilty type who ‘fess up when pressed. They couldn’t lie. Claiming that the majority are dishonest to the core is just as bad as pretending everybody is pure.

    I was in the more innocent category. In seventh grade, we had to sit through each other’s speeches in the gym/cafeteria. I quietly booed a friend as a joke, once. A bunch of rowdies booed a lot of speakers, a lot.

    Sister C., the principal, made us all stay after, lined up to confess individually. She was surprised when I confessed. I wasn’t the one she was after. Taken aback, she said, “I admire your courage,” and excused me to the bathroom.

    Not that I was a saint. My friends asked me later why I told the truth. I just said, I was afraid the consequences would be worse if I didn’t.

    The distinctions felony/misdemeanor and cardinal/mortal/venial exist for a reason.

    Or do you want to go back to hanging ten-year-old pickpockets?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  219. @Twinkie

    free gifts

    As opposed to those gifts you pay for?

    Sorry, this phrase is a pet peeve. I wonder if there is some legalistic reason behind it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  220. @Almost Missouri

    Come to think of it, one of my buddies in Scotland was a Hong Kong kid.

    Weren’t the Scots the bankers of Southeast Asia and Oceania? Jardine, Macquarie, etc.

    The kid wanted to get to the source!

    Embrace the wind, dark and gales that formed John Knox and other OG Calvinist Reformers!

    Are you implying that Leicestershire native Msgr. Ronald (Arbuthnott) Knox, the noted convert to Rome, might have had it soft south of the border? Shoot, his evangelical bishop father was born in Bangalore.

    Perhaps they should have stayed up north, in the school of hard Knox.

  221. @Almost Missouri

    St. Andrews is the most famous golf town in the world. It’s kind of like how a college in Zermatt, Switzerland would be: are you into Alpinism?

    Charles Blair MacDonald, the first great North American golf course architect, went to St. Andrews U. around 1870.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  222. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Some smart people have them. Some people might say that Ron Unz has them, to name one other local example.

    Mr. Unz will debate numbers with you and acknowledge where he lacks in-depth expertise. Does he sometimes have some kookie ideas? Yes, I think he does (I’m still scratching my head about the Holocaust articles), but he never struck me as intellectually dishonest or deceptive. If anything, I think the man suffers from an almost autistic level of transparency (and I laud him for it).

    I can’t say the same about ER based on the comments she left here and at Razib Khan’s. She will literally lie and say the opposite of what she claimed earlier when suitable and switch back to the original position once “safe.” She’s deeply dishonest intellectually – which is the very thing you criticized.

    And even though I am ethnically Asian, I, like you, am an immigration restrictionist – that’s right, I don’t want more Asians (or anyone else) in this country, because it’s clear that mass immigration hurts current Americans, and especially the poorer among us. There are, indeed, good reasons to limit immigration from Asia (and elsewhere), but this “They all cheat to get into Harvard” nonsense isn’t one of them.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  223. Twinkie says:
    @Almost Missouri

    My Welsh friend lived in Scotland for a very long time, and, for some reason, he loathes the Scots more than he does English, which is saying something… something about there being nothing to watch on TV but in his words “so-called Scottish culture.” But he’s quite old and from the days long before the internet and Netflix.

    I got the sense that he viewed the Welsh as the quiet, soulful ones, the English as braggarts who win, and the Scots as braggarts who lose.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  224. @Twinkie

    You can guess from this that Singapore, Hong Kong, and Japan probably have somewhat-to-slightly less cheating than the U.S. while Taiwan and South Korea have somewhat more.

    That corruption table strikes me as about right. I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and frequently traveled to mainland China, Hong Kong, Singapore and Macau. (I never made it to Japan or South Korea, however, much to my regret.). I’ve also had a lot of dealings with the overseas Chinese in SE Asian countries like Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Singapore is impressively run. And the results show up in almost any country comparison you can think of. Crime. Education. Infrastructure. I’ve defended Singapore and Lee Kuan Yew over the years from American liberals who seem to believe he was Hitler. Or at the very least Mussolini.

    Taiwan is not as well run as Singapore, and it probably has a much higher level of white collar crime (and much lower levels of street crime, even after controlling for African-Americans crime rates), but people there are basically as honest as Americans. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the two countries (Taiwan and the US) switched positions on this corruption table in the next few years. They’re not far apart now. But when I first visited them in the early 1990s, they were much further apart.

    Most people don’t realize how different are the Chinese of the diaspora (including Taiwan) from those in Mainland China. It’s sometimes hard to believe they being to the same species. Other than test scores and facial looks, I can’t think of two more different Asians than the average Singaporean compared to the average mainlander. That will change.

  225. @Twinkie

    Mr. Unz will debate numbers with you and acknowledge where he lacks in-depth expertise. Does he sometimes have some kookie ideas? Yes, I think he does (I’m still scratching my head about the Holocaust articles), but he never struck me as intellectually dishonest or deceptive. If anything, I think the man suffers from an almost autistic level of transparency (and I laud him for it).

    I didn’t mean to single out Unz, but he’s here and so he furnished me with a very smart person who I know you know.

    And the comparison is useful and apt. You believe, with plenty of evidence, that ER has a racial animus against Asians. So let’s just say that if Unz argued the same positions at any other forum anonymously in the same way he does here publicly, he would be labeled an obvious anti-Semite. Instead, at best he’s merely odd, and at worst he’s a self-hating Jew.

    I don’t believe that. Like ER, I think he just has holes in his very smart head.

    As for debating Unz, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. It takes him five long paragraphs just to clear his throat.

  226. @Reg Cæsar

    Many of those who admitted cheating may just have done it once or twice, at a trivial level, and are just the guilty type who ‘fess up when pressed. They couldn’t lie.

    The examples from the service academies that I mentioned earlier were not trivial. They involved dozens of students working together to cheat. That kind of willingness to be open and cooperate with other students when cheating doesn’t suggest the kind of person who is just learning to cheat. It suggeststhast most of the cheaters were quite comfortable doing it.

    Or do you want to go back to hanging ten-year-old pickpockets?

    I wasn’t bringing up these scandals to punish, but to illuminate that cheating in school is not just something that Asians do.

  227. @Twinkie

    My Scots buds always deprecated their fellow Celts (Irish, Welsh, Cornish) thus:

    “Och, they’re chust Scotsmen wi’ their brrains kicked oot.”

    (They are Scotsmen with their brains kicked out.)

    Subtitle provided for those who don’t speak Brogue.

  228. @Mr McKenna

    Silly McKenna wrote to me:

    And I can’t believe how many times you’ve said that.

    I’m criticizing elite schools: the fact that I myself have a degree from an elite school and have seen incredible corruption at that school is highly relevant.

    Silly Mac also wrote:

    You simply have to be Asian, or Jewish.

    Or both. Is both possible yet?

    Unlike Johnny-come-latelies like you, I have ancestors who came over on the Mayflower. I’m Old Stock WASP.

    I am though willing to contribute to the GoFundMe to send you back to the Old Country — if you promise never to return to the States. I would like to replace you with a smart Asian who can actually contribute to this country.

    And, tell us, where did you go to school? Also Shihole Community College, like your friend?

  229. @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    A great book on Japan’s politics is Shadow Shoguns: The Rise and Fall of Japan’s Political Postwar Machine. I knew Japan had a lot of white collar crime, but the level of corruption in Japan’s political system from the 1970s to the 1990s was stunning for me to read about in detail. It wasn’t just an extravagant excrescence on Japan’s body politic during this time, but part of the political system itself, like a fourth branch of government.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  230. @PhysicistDave

    I am though willing to contribute to the GoFundMe to send you back to the Old Country…

    Here’s your first donation.

  231. @Steve Sailer

    True.

    I seem to recall one of my St. Andrews friends saying that St. Andrews’ students had some kind of privileged access to the St. Andrews golf course, which otherwise has a long waiting list with an enormous downpayment to play.

    But while Golf’s fortunes are declining, St Andrews University’s fortunes are rising, so there must be more to the University than the golf.

    Instead of Zermatt and Alpinism, why didn’t you make the analogy with a California coastal school and surfing? Surfers don’t swot?

  232. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    the level of corruption in Japan’s political system from the 1970s to the 1990s was stunning

    One party-rule will do that and it’s the price of “consensus.” That makes Singapore’s cleanliness all the more impressive.

    Ever been to Fatman Satay?

  233. @Pincher Martin

    Other than test scores and facial looks, I can’t think of two more different Asians than the average Singaporean compared to the average mainlander. That will change.

    It has already changed — a lot.

    It used to be I could distinguish a mainland Chinese person of almost any age from a HK contemporary at a mere glance. That is no longer even close to being the case.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  234. @Pincher Martin

    Your continued return to silly references to my wife only indicate that… you have no evidence.

    But here, read this:

    https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2019/03/14/ffeds-arrest-california-group-for-aiding-chinese-exam-visa-cheats/

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  235. @Pincher Martin

    “I simply rejected Education Realist’s theory that Asians have a pronounced tendency to cheat and that this explains why they are so successful in school.”

    LOL – you attempt to reject a theory about Asians having a pronounced tendency to cheat by referencing institutions that have few Asians.

    You’re full of shit, Poopy Pincher.

    And you’ve been debating Ed Realist for 20 years, you say? And you’ve never looked up the total numbers on college admissions fraud? Afraid of what you’d find, or just lazy?

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  236. Trevor H. says:
    @PhysicistDave

    I have ancestors who came over on the Mayflower. I’m Old Stock WASP.

    Even by the admittedly low standards of internet comment forums, you are a bit of a train wreck. It’s been fun to watch but I have better things to do.

    Now post a few hundred words of “rejoinder” as is your wont. I won’t be reading them.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  237. @PhysicistDave

    I would like to replace you with a smart Asian who can actually contribute to this country.

    Hey now. What do you have against Jewish people?

  238. @Pincher Martin

    Fifty names ain’t a small set.

    It’s a very small set, in relation to the many thousands of instances of cheating that you yourself have referred to. A very small set.

    I suppose Singer might’ve had a good reason to NOT take Asian-American money, and so this sample is skewed toward white parents for some reason, but I would like you to speculate why this is so.

    Neither you nor I have any way of knowing how much “Asian-American money” Singer has taken over the years, and neither can you extrapolate from this tiny set.

    If “this sample is skewed toward white parents” it’s likely the result of political considerations, including the ever-present concern among law-enforcement agencies for ‘optics’ when it comes to high-profile indictments. But neither you nor I can actually know at this point, and an additional difference between us is that I’m able to recognize that.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  239. OP of this comment here again – one of the reasons why I return to this blog is for the nuggets of wisdom one is liable to find in the comments section. That said, I’d like to respond to a few issues raised herein.

    For one, I don’t know why I or anyone would lie – especially on this blog, of all places – about having been employed by a recently disgraced criminal enterprise.

    As for the interestingness of gender studies? Well, I disagree with the discipline’s premises, and I believe it to be on the whole a waste of taxpayers’ money as well as a bogus major that does little to advance the public weal or enlarge the ambit of human understanding; but it is interesting to me nonetheless in a know-thy-enemy sense. The refutation of falsehood can also have the effect of bolstering the validity of the truth. I also do not have a mind for science, and thus am able to debate such topics with relative ease. And it was, further, somewhat easier for me to help a student write – or, indeed, to write myself – an essay about why I intend to major in gender studies than it was for me to write an essay about, say, why I intend to major in mechanical engineering.

    As for the commenter who said that soc is not male-dominated – this is true. But there are more males in soc than there are in psych. And soc and psych were two cake-majors we very often advised our aspiring yet underqualified business majors to apply to. So – males applied to psych, females to soc. (Or religious studies or philosophy.)

    One of the things I have been trying to reckon with, are the gradations of corruptness. I knew dimly that some strings were occasionally pulled and some serious frauds perpetrated; but my own deeds, while not necessarily criminal, may have been (I now see) somewhat less than ethical.

    A lot of what I did was to help students write college application essays. They would often apply to upwards of twenty schools; and there is simply no way that most students could write all of the supplements (not a few students were unable to write *any* of them).

    So, if I sit down with a student to write a personal statement, at what point does such an endeavor begin to approach the unethical? If I make suggestions by way of brainstorming, or correct grammatical errors, then that is probably okay. If, however, I begin to generate entire phrases and sentences, and they say – “That sounds good, let’s keep it,” then that probably is cheating. Although, again, we are in a gray area.

    On many, many occasions, however, I simply wrote essays originally for them. This is obviously somewhat unethical, but at the same time – I was being paid good money, and I had, yes, a moral duty to get them into school. I also like to write, and I enjoy working with youth, so it was not so easy to resist. I am simply trying to survive in the world, and in the increasingly banana-republic-like environs of the Bay Area. Unlike with cheating on the ACT, or bribing coaches, this sort of thing is exceedingly widespread, and again, marked by gray areas, so to expect these kids to write entirely original essays would be put oneself at a considerable competitive disadvantage. I have no regrets or compunction about having engaged in such practices.

    As for the Asian question – Singer worked with a lot of Asians. And – as stated above, and as Ron Unz above confirmed – the overwhelming majority of his clients were not engaged in high-level fraud. In general, the Asian students had a very hard time of things. They were routinely rejected from Ivies where kids who could claim some kind of bogus or at rate hugely attenuated Latin or Native American ancestry got into excellent schools all the time. It is difficult to claim to be black and gay if your last name is Chen or Chang.

    I’ll give you an example of a white kid using affirmative action to get into Harvard. A couple of years ago, on orders from Singer, I sat down with a kid from an obscenely wealthy Bay Area family, and helped him to write a Harvard supplement about his alleged Native American heritage, how he worked for “the tribe,” etc. Granted, he looked like something out of Ralph Lauren ad – there was nothing Native American about him at all. He was class president, captain of the lacrosse team at an exclusive prep school (although he was not an athletic recruit at Harvard and was not seeking to bribe his way into school). His test scores were in the Harvard range. I remember thinking, “Harvard is going to see through this bullshit, and he’s not going to get in, his parents are going to be pissed at me, etc.”

    Lo and behold, the kid got in. I have, however, seen any number of similarly credentialled Asians get rejected from such schools, In this case, he was a strong but not a slam-dunk candidate for admission – but scamming the affirmative action system is what got him in. Because Harvard can now “claim” to have more Native Americans on its campus.

    On a side note, my work with these kids has proved a lot of the HBD stuff I read in this blog to be true: Jews are smart. Asians – even second- and third-generation ones – are terrible with language but good with math, spatial reasoning, etc. Indians are in fact very good with language.

    As for Asians cheating – I believe they are highly likely to cheat. Although I can’t really compare to whites. I know from a relative who is a professor in the Middle East, that they *all* cheat over there. Every last one of them.

    This needs to be balanced against the consideration that Asians, in the U.S., are also *extraordinarily* hard-working. It seems wrong to me to penalize these kids in favor of more more-favored minorities, when *so many* Asians are spending upwards to 12 hours per day in tutoring centers. The losers in the scam are many, but perhaps the biggest losers are Asians families who don’t have an extra $500,000 to spend on the side-door treatment.

    If it’s any consolation, I did endeavor, however subtly, to redpill many kids. They are budding nationalists and fascists, and don’t even know it yet 😉

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
    , @JMcG
  240. @MikeatMikedotMike

    But here, read this:

    https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2019/03/14/ffeds-arrest-california-group-for-aiding-chinese-exam-visa-cheats/

    If you had been reading my posts with care, you would already know that I agree that Chinese nationals are a problem. But they are not Asian-Americans.

  241. @Twinkie

    One party-rule will do that and it’s the price of “consensus.” That makes Singapore’s cleanliness all the more impressive.

    Singapore was lucky to have Lee Kuan Yew in charge for so long – a highly intelligent man who combined a Chinese no-nonsense attitude to ruling with a superb Western education. He could a hard ruler without being malicious, which is a difficult combination to pull off.

    Ever been to Fatman Satay?

    Nope.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  242. @Mr McKenna

    It’s a very small set, in relation to the many thousands of instances of cheating that you yourself have referred to. A very small set.

    I could sample 500 to 1000 people around the country and come up with a presidential poll that will closely track how 120 million people vote. The demographic breakdowns of that poll would also be fairly accurate in showing how different racial and religious groups will vote.

    50 is not an ideal size. And it hasn’t been sampled in an objective manner. But it’s not uninformative, either. And that’s not the only evidence I have put forward.

    Neither you nor I have any way of knowing how much “Asian-American money” Singer has taken over the years, and neither can you extrapolate from this tiny set.

    You should only make claims for your own ignorance, which I agree is abundant and probably uncorrectable.

    You are posting in a thread in which Steve has highlighted a commentator who used to work for Singer and who mentioned – in an off-the-cuff manner, without any polemical aim – that in his experience whites indeed are part of the problem in admissions fraud.

    So we have:

    1) the fifty people who have been arrested by the FBI;

    2) the comment from a former employee of Singer’s company who talks about his experiences with other clients who were not arrested by the FBI because their fraud was either not recent enough or too small for the FBI to bother with;

    3) and the numerous cheating scandals from the service academies which took place when whites were the vast majority of students (and Asians were underrepresented) in those institutions.

    Is any of these definitive in settling the argument? No. Is it better than anything you will ever come up with either side of the argument? Yes.

    More to the point, have I presented enough evidence to counter Education Realist’s arguments? Yes.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  243. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Meathead Mike,

    LOL – you attempt to reject a theory about Asians having a pronounced tendency to cheat by referencing institutions that have few Asians.

    Yes, that’s right.

    You see, those of us who can actually follow an argument in the social sciences – which, by the way, often doesn’t include most social scientists – realize that you sometimes have to remove some ingredient to understand its place in the full context.

    For example, let’s say you are having a drink and you say to yourself “There’s much too acid in this drink. It must be because of ingredient A.”

    So you make another drink but you remove ingredient A. But it tastes the same ! Still too much acid !

    What have you learned, Meathead Mike? Well, you’ve learned that ingredient A is not responsible for your drink’s high acidity.

    Similarly, by removing Asians from the equation and discovering that major cheating scandals still routinely take place in our institutions of higher learning where white students dominate, we’ve learned that perhaps those who want to blame Asian-Americans for changing our academic culture with their cheating ways are like this who want to blame ingredient A for your drink’s high acidity.

    Is this social science setup foolproof? No. Cheating scandals are very hard to quantify. But that didn’t stop Education Realist. And it’s better than any argument you will ever come up with.

  244. @The Last Real Calvinist

    That is no longer even close to being the case.

    I believe you. I haven’t traveled to any parts of Greater China (with the exception of a few visits back to Taiwan) since 2008.

    How much experience do you have in East Asia?

  245. @Jim Don Bob

    I can only go by the admission stats I find online, which show Asians making up anywhere from 15 to 30 percent of the various Ivy League schools.

  246. Trevor H. says:
    @Nathan

    Don’t post actual facts. It enrages the Asians!

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  247. @Trevor H.

    Little Trevor wrote to me:

    Now post a few hundred words of “rejoinder” as is your wont. I won’t be reading them.

    .Good. Leave — and don’t come back.

  248. @Trevor H.

    I’m white, not Asian. And the links just talk about Chinese cheats, which I’ve never disputed. They aren’t Asian-Americans.

    • Replies: @Trevor H.
  249. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    > > free gifts ; some legalistic reason

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre

    > Richard Stallman summarised the difference in a slogan: “Think free as in free speech, not free beer.” These phrases have become common, along with gratis and libre, in the software development and computer law fields for encapsulating this distinction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics_right_to_repair

    > The right to repair electronics refers to government legislation that is intended to allow consumers the ability (free) to repair and modify their own consumer electronic devices, where otherwise the manufacturer of such devices require the consumer to use only their offered services or void the product’s warranty.

  250. @Pincher Martin

    How much experience do you have in East Asia?

    I’ve lived in Hong Kong for almost 30 years and have traveled to the PRC many many times (if you include day trips to Shenzhen, I cross the border into the mainland about 8-10 times a year on average), and I’ve made multiple visits each to Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, etc. over the years.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  251. @The Last Real Calvinist

    Well, then you’ve seen a helluva lot of change.

    I always tell people that when you don’t go to a country in East Asia for five years, you’re likely to find an entirely different place when you return.

  252. @Pincher Martin

    1) As everyone has agreed, this cannot possibly be used as a meaningful sample.

    2) Self-reported anecdotes from an anonymous person on the Internet. Really.

    3) Cherry-picked anecdotes, likewise useless for logical argumentation.

    To put it kindly, you’re way out of your depth here.

    • Replies: @Pincher Martin
  253. Veracitor says:

    Hi Steve. I just noticed you and commenter Former Affiliate got picked up by Vanity Fair. You got linked but not explicitly credited: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/03/the-admissions-office-manhattan-elite-grapple-with-the-college-bribery-scandal.

    Cheers.

  254. @Mr McKenna

    Mr. McNinny,

    1) As everyone has agreed, this cannot possibly be used as a meaningful sample.

    Are you using the royal “everyone”? You and Meathead Mike agree about this. Two nitwits do not make an “everyone.”

    2) Self-reported anecdotes from an anonymous person on the Internet. Really.

    The comment was highlighted by Steve Sailer because it had the ring of authenticity. Unless you know something about this commentator’s history, and how it impacts what we are talking about, this anonymous commentator’s reports are fair game.

    3) Cherry-picked anecdotes, likewise useless for logical argumentation.

    Anecdotes are nothing more than the singular form of data. But what you ought to have said is that I used cherry-picked news stories. And since those news stories were used to counter Education Realist’s cherry-picked new stories, they were perfect for the task they were used for.

  255. @Twinkie

    Lockheed almost went down again in the mid-1970s over paying bribes to Prime Minister Tanaka of Japan.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  256. Trevor H. says:
    @Pincher Martin

    My post referenced “Asians” and was not addressed to you. Yet you took it personally. That’s telling. If nothing else you are a source of humor!

    For extra credit you can try explaining why you believe Asians lose their inclination to cheat once they come to America (often illegally).

    We can set your apologia next to Ron’s, where he insists that some of the most violent people on the globe suddenly become peaceful once they encounter our Magic Dirt. Have fun!

  257. My post referenced “Asians” and was not addressed to you. Yet you took it personally. That’s telling. If nothing else you are a source of humor!

    The post you addressed _was_ addressed to me, and since for some unknown reason I didn’t see that first comment until I saw your brief remark, I decided to hit you both with a drive-by comment. I was busy elsewhere with more serious comments.

    For extra credit you can try explaining why you believe Asians lose their inclination to cheat once they come to America (often illegally).

    Assimilation. They – or their kids or their kids’ kids – will eventually want to blend in.

    But we should dramatically reduce immigration – all immigration (legal and illegal) – to help make that happen. (As I’ve already said to others, I agree that Chinese nationals cheat to such a remarkable degree that it’s a serious problem.)

    Asians in East Asia, however, are not *all* egregious cheaters. The Chinese stand out. Unfortunately for the U.S. right now, most East Asian immigrants to the U.S. are Chinese and not Japanese or Singaporeans.

    We can set your apologia next to Ron’s, where he insists that some of the most violent people on the globe suddenly become peaceful once they encounter our Magic Dirt. Have fun!

    Travel to Asia and it becomes obvious: Almost all Chinese outside of China don’t cheat to anywhere near the same scale that the Chinese in China do.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  258. @Former affiliate/associate of Singer's company

    It is difficult to claim to be black and gay if your last name is Chen or Chang.

    Surely it’s not too difficult to claim to be gay if your last name is Chen or Chang.

  259. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Nope.

    Next time you are in Singapore, try it. That’s where the local eat. Some lamb satay with a beer would hit the spot now!

  260. Twinkie says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Lockheed almost went down again in the mid-1970s over paying bribes to Prime Minister Tanaka of Japan.

    Back when I used to do investigations overseas and received relevant training, including that for the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (https://www.justice.gov/criminal-fraud/foreign-corrupt-practices-act), Lockheed was brought up a lot, and not just in its Japanese dealings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals

    There were allegations of bribery by Lockheed in Italy, the Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, West Germany, and elsewhere.

    By the way, in the past, some Europeans countries used to allow their companies to tax-deduct bribes paid overseas to obtain or facilitate business. Those days are long gone to a great extent and arms sales are much more transparent these days (though, of course, not entirely free of corruption). With the proliferation of local offsets in production, there are legal and more productive ways to spread money around in client countries.

  261. Twinkie says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Travel to Asia and it becomes obvious

    It’s almost humorous to see accusations of genetic propensity toward cheating and corruption among people who are like this:

    You can leave your things – mobile phones, laptops, and wallets – on a coffee table and leave a shop for an hour in Seoul and when you come back, they will still be there.

    • Agree: Pincher Martin
  262. JMcG says:
    @Former affiliate/associate of Singer's company

    Bravo, great comment. Not least for using the word ambit, a word I haven’t seen in print for so long that it stopped me in my tracks. Thanks for starting a very, very interesting comment thread.

  263. @Bill

    The good preacher preaches from two books. One the Holy Scriptures and two the lives of his hearers.

    You don’t know the first thing about the second in this case, so your sermon is predictably a dud. In my case, I got in fair and square then once I saw what weak sauce the elite (sic) actually were I headed back to my roots.

    There were of course niches of excellence at the Ivies and if one of my boys wants to hook into those it may take some Enigma Code style subterfuge to make that happen.

    I won’t have any compunction about that any more than early Christians meeting in the catacombs. A few martyrs are a great thing, all martyrs is Jonestown.

    • Replies: @Bill
  264. Bill says:
    @Desiderius

    Uh, the word “you” in my comment obviously means “one.”

    A few martyrs are a great thing, all martyrs is Jonestown.

    Martyrs at Jonestown. Sure, sure.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  265. @Bill

    How many Protestants on the Supreme Court there Bill? Keep whistling right on past that graveyard. Just don’t be shocked if your kids end up there before you do.

    • Replies: @Bill
  266. Bill says:
    @Desiderius

    Random incoherence is, indeed, harder to refute. So, congrats on that.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  267. @Bill

    So what is your plan?

    The leadership of our nation has been restricted to those who have passed through institutions which now openly and wantonly discriminate against my people.

    Would you have me lie back and enjoy it?

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