The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Chinese Genetically Engineer Higher IQ Monkeys Because Why Not?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From MIT Technology Review:

Chinese scientists have put human brain genes in monkeys—and yes, they may be smarter
A quest to understand how human intelligence evolved raises some ethical questions.
by Antonio Regalado April 10, 2019

Human intelligence is one of evolution’s most consequential inventions. It is the result of a sprint that started millions of years ago, leading to ever bigger brains and new abilities. Eventually, humans stood upright, took up the plow, and created civilization, while our primate cousins stayed in the trees.

Now scientists in southern China report that they’ve tried to narrow the evolutionary gap, creating several transgenic macaque monkeys with extra copies of a human gene suspected of playing a role in shaping human intelligence.

“This was the first attempt to understand the evolution of human cognition using a transgenic monkey model,” says Bing Su, the geneticist at the Kunming Institute of Zoology who led the effort.

According to their findings, the modified monkeys did better on a memory test involving colors and block pictures, and their brains also took longer to develop—as those of human children do. There wasn’t a difference in brain size.

The experiments, described on March 27 in a Beijing journal, National Science Review, and first reported by Chinese media, remain far from pinpointing the secrets of the human mind or leading to an uprising of brainy primates.

Instead, several Western scientists, including one who collaborated on the effort, called the experiments reckless and said they questioned the ethics of genetically modifying primates, an area where China has seized a technological edge.

“The use of transgenic monkeys to study human genes linked to brain evolution is a very risky road to take,” says James Sikela, a geneticist who carries out comparative studies among primates at the University of Colorado. He is concerned that the experiment shows disregard for the animals and will soon lead to more extreme modifications. “It is a classic slippery slope issue and one that we can expect to recur as this type of research is pursued,” he says.

Research using primates is increasingly difficult in Europe and the US, but China has rushed to apply the latest high-tech DNA tools to the animals. The country was first to create monkeys altered with the gene-editing tool CRISPR, and this January a Chinese institute announced it had produced a half-dozen clones of a monkey with a severe mental disturbance.

 
Hide 93 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. And now it begins: the species-change operation. (‘Yes, but inside I feel like a wombat!’)

  2. What about inserting Chinese and Ashkenazi IQ genes into Congolese Pygmies and Australian Aborigines?

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @AnotherDad
  3. CK says:

    Intelligence begets more intelligence. CRISPR will have profound impacts on all aspects of “humanity.” I truly regret that this old boomer will not survive long enough to see them.

  4. DFH says:

    What could possibly go wrong?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Hypnotoad666
  5. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:

    I have a law that says anything we imagine we will bring into being in a sense we have already become gods but if we can keep this up we will actually become gods
    I expect time travel, invisibility,transformer rooms,galactic jumping whatever once we have imagined something no matter how improbable we just keep asking why not until we get there we may go on to other problem for a while but if we make progress somewhere else inevitable someone starts to see if it can be applied to something else we are working on. Alchemy is real its not economical but we can make gold several ways from mercury for instance my grandfather watched us go from kitty hawk to landing on the moon to a mars rover. If not for nigger we would have moved mars into near earth orbit and terraformed it by now the chinese do not give a shit about niggers or other monkeys if we dont cowboy up they will be gods and we will be the monkeys in their next experiment

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @Anonymous
    , @guest
  6. LOL says:

    Yeah, just like they did with that child, who then disappeared as if it never existed. “As if”?

  7. It’s pretty much over for mainstream kikes. It’s all up to Israel jews now. And also anglo zionosut shills, them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAbI_bG9AJ4

  8. You probably won’t listen to it, but if you want the ‘deep and wide’ of Jewish organizations etc behind the White Nationalist hearings, you can’t do better for a couple hours’ time than this Strike and Mike episode: https://therightstuff.biz/2019/04/09/strike-mike-episode-58-clownworld-committee-hearing

    it’s paywalled, $10 for the month, but imo worth it.

  9. @Digital Samizdat

    What about reparations for millennia of oppression?

    I sense multiple opportunities.

    A fight for reparations for millennia of oppression of primates. Somebody has to collect donations. SPLC?

    A new cult of trans species equality for jaded westerners.

    A new source of migrants.

    New horizons in fight for sexual freedom (bestiality is the new gay).

    Not to mention a new sources of quality Sailer material.

  10. TGGP says: • Website

    The upside of using macaques rather than a great ape more similar to humans is that even if it does become much smarter, it’s still small enough for us to push around. Speaking of which, I asked at GNXP why New World monkeys mostly stayed small relative to the range of Old World monkeys rather than occupying some of the niches of the apes, but nobody responded with any hypotheses.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    , @Anonymous
  11. Alfa158 says:

    I suspect the object of the research is not to produce a race of super apes, but to eventually augment human intelligence. The Beijing Genomics Institute has been engaged in a massive project to isolate a complex of genes that result in higher intelligence. They were collecting DNA samples from high intelligence people from all over the world and from all ethnic and racial groups, then sequencing the DNA to try to accurately identify the poly genetic markers.
    If they can succeed at that, the idea is that they can analyze cells from multiple human test tube embryos and select the smartest ones to be carried to term. Eventually they can genetically modify zygotes to produce super humans.
    Now, I may as well do this before another Star Trek fan does it for me:
    Ahem…. KKHHAAAANNNNNN!

  12. Anon[505] • Disclaimer says:

    This is why China will rule the world. Their willingness to defy Western moralism in order to advance themselves will ensure they dominate every industry and monopolize every major future advancement.

  13. ic1000 says:

    Antonio Regalado is the reporter who broke the story of the rogue (or not) researcher who gene-engineered HIV resistance into a few Chinese babies, a few months back.

  14. The Chinese are fucking evil…This is a monumental blasphemy against CREATION!!!….Another reason to shut Chinese Legal Immigrants down to 0..

    The Chinese in California…MONTANNA….IDAHO….will eat all the remaining endemic-endangered plant and mammal species in these states…….

    When NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICANS dropped their fertility to the ZPG level in 1970…..The Chinese from China saw it as an opportunity to colonize NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN LIVING AND BREEDING SPACE….

    Andrew Yang has called for a massive increase in the H1B…L1B VISA PROGRAM…..isn’t this genocide against our people?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  15. El Dato says:
    @Pat Hannagan

    Lockheed Martin, which is building the Orion capsule, said in a statement on Tuesday that it could help put astronauts on the moon by 2024 with an incomplete version of Gateway.

    Sounds pretty ominous. These are the soundbites that make a 1000 transdimensional conspiracy theories bloom!

  16. The wild, wild East.

  17. songbird says:

    Well, we have chimp HIV – isn’t it about time that we also have monkey HIV?

    Or did the chimps get it from eating monkeys, and Africans from eating the chimps?

  18. songbird says:
    @Alfa158

    A monkey-human hybrid would really clean up at the next Olympics.

  19. Acilius says: • Website

    Perhaps the true sponsors of this research are the Chinese overseas intelligence services. It is the culmination of their decades-long attempt to match the triumphs of that ace of spies, Lancelot Link: Secret Chimp.

  20. tyrone says:

    Next they manufacture tiny AK47s……..hey ,just get’n with the zeitgeist.

  21. Didn’t Dean Koontz write a novel about this?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  22. He is concerned that the experiment shows disregard for the animals

    China. Ha. That’s a good one!

    Bing Su

    We’re being overtaken economically and geopolitically by a race of Bing Sus playing Legos with brain cells.

    A secretary is not a pet, Nor an erector set…

    America makes better Bings, anyway.

  23. @TGGP

    I’m no expert, but maybe the relative lack of a savannah, maybe the American apes never made it to the pampas or the prairies where mutations for greater mass and knuckle-walking would confer an advantage.

    Baboons, gorillas, chimpanzees, and macaques all spend (or their ancestors spent) sigificant time in such environments.

    American monkeys mostly just hang around in the canopies of rainforests – often literally: the prehensile tail may have been so advantageous when it emerged in America that this mutation set American primates on their path to remain small and arboreal; perhaps the absence of any mutations leading to prehensile tails contributed to the alternative adaptations for mass and knuckle-walking that occurred in the Old World.

    Gibbons and orangutans are pretty darned arboreal and dwell in cery dense forests, so I don’t know quite how they would conform to any theory about the rôle of open spaces. The lands of southeastern Asia are in many ways most like those of central America and South America where monkeys live, though: very lush and wet. Africa and other parts of Asia are much drier, hence their open spaces….

    I think somewhere in all these ideas (or some combination of them) lies an answer to your query.

  24. TWS says:

    I welcome our Chinese monkey overlords.

  25. njguy73 says:

    This reminds me of one of the 23 questions Chuck Klosterman poses in his book Sex, Drugs, and Cocoa Puffs.

    Genetic engineers at Johns Hopkins University have developed a so-called super gorilla. Though the animal cannot speak, it has a sign language lexicon of over twelve thousand words, and an IQ of almost 85, and most notably a vague sense of self-awareness. Oddly, the creature (who weighs seven hundred pounds) becomes fascinated by football. The gorilla aspires to play the game at its highest level and quickly develops the rudimentary skills of a defensive end. ESPN analyst Tom Jackson speculates that this gorilla would be borderline unblockable and would likely average six sacks a game (although Jackson concedes the beast might be susceptible to counters and misdirection plays). Meanwhile, the gorilla has made is clear he would never intentionally injure any opponent. You are commissioner of the NFL: Would you allow this gorilla to sign with the Oakland Raiders?

    https://sites.google.com/site/23questions/

  26. Jack D says:

    We’re being overtaken economically and geopolitically by a race of Bing Sus playing Legos with brain cells.

    It’s our own fault. We’ll spend the next 30 years debating about whether experimenting on monkeys is ethical or not and by then the Chinese will be breeding babies that have a guarantied minimum IQ of 130 or you get your money back from the in vitro lab.

    The other day Breyer wrote a really impassioned dissent to an “emergency” stay of execution – he said the Supreme Court was rushing into a decision. The underlying murder happened in 1991 so only 28 years ago and it’s been in the courts ever since. Believe it or not, there was a time in the US when we could actually get shit done – maybe the results were not perfect (like China today) but at least we got shit done. What we have now is Clown World.

  27. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @TGGP

    Why not combine super intelligence with the strength to rip someone’s face off with their bare hands? What could possibly go wrong?

  28. @Alfa158

    A very fine line separates genius from psychosis. They often co-occur. And even geniuses and less intellient (but still very intelligent) people without problems meeting the criteria for formal diagnoses for mental problems face very difficult lives by having to cope being surrounded by idiots (and even people of average intelligence are idiots to these exceptional persons).

    People must be careful what they wish for, because they just might get it.

    An increase of dangerous, brilliant, antisocial people may result, whivhbwill be bad for everyone, and the even more likely increase in intelligent (but not dangerous) persons doomed to misery would be no gift for those persons, either….

  29. Can the Prog fail to see that the means to accomplish their eternal duty of raising the oppressed is finally at hand?

  30. El Dato says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    This is a monumental blasphemy against CREATION!!!

    Nah.

    Creation is what one makes of it.

    Close those feedback loops. It’s you destiny. Come what may.

    Creation strives towards self-improvement all the time. It is a bit last millenium to wait for random events to improve what one wants improved (which may not even ever happen or actually go into reverse).

  31. @Jack D

    The likes of the Erie Canal, Saturn V, the Hoover Dam, the Manhattan Project, the Golden Gate Bridge, the transcontinental railway, the Panama Canal, Stone Mountain, etc. are all impossible to begin, nevermind complete, by the F.U.S.A. in the Year of Our Clown 2019. Many such efforts are literally illegal.

  32. El Dato says:
    @Redneck farmer

    “Superchimps” appear in “A Meeting with Medusa” by A.C. Clarke (1971).

    In the Uplift Universe by David Brin (in which the only good book is “Startide Rising” because it’s basically a good StarWarsy yarn from the pulp magazine era) you get the whole shebang:

    * Neo-Chimpanzees
    * Neo-Dolphins (being starship commander! having sex with the ladies!!!)
    * Neo-Gorillas
    * Neo-Dogs

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  33. @anon

    Being humble, I imagine sentences and paragraphs. Why not start there, Ace?

  34. @Digital Samizdat

    If they can teach genetically engineered Chicom monkeys to vote Democrat, Nancy Pelosi & Co. will demand that they receive asylum and voting rights.

  35. @songbird

    A monkey-human hybrid would really clean up at the next Olympics.

    Especially on the uneven bars — prehensile tails would be a killer advantage.

    In the swimming events, maybe not so much.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  36. This recent SNL skit is quite funny:

    “There is no law that says you can’t make a dog head guy; I googled it.”

  37. “Because why not?”

    Because monkey testing precedes human trials, Steve.

    We’re about 10 years away, at most, from the end of natural human evolution.

  38. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Some elements of the Neomacaques might not work.

  39. @Jack D

    The other day Breyer wrote a really impassioned dissent to an “emergency” stay of execution – he said the Supreme Court was rushing into a decision. The underlying murder happened in 1991 . . .

    Someone should do an actuarial analysis of death row inmates. Given the benefits of free room and board and medical care, and being removed from the risks of the outside world, I would not be surprised at all if getting a death sentence actually improves a murder’s life expectancy.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
  40. @DFH

    What could possibly go wrong?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  41. El Dato says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yeah well that’s what happens when you let Peak Stupidity humans attempt to build a seawall against the rising ocean.

  42. @Hypnotoad666

    Asian primates lack prehensile tails, and American science lacks the immorality of Moreau in the north and the talent for genetic engineering in the south.

    Still and all, Chinese macaques are damned dextrous….

  43. FPD72 says:

    So now “Planet of the Apes” is another work of art that is going to be used as a how-to manual, like the left is using “1984.”

    Creating a race of apes with human intelligence; what could go wrong?

  44. @Anon

    “Their willingness to defy Western moralism”

    “several Western scientists, including one who collaborated on the effort, called the experiments reckless and said they questioned the ethics of genetically modifying primates”

    I would seriously love to hear from one of these Western scientists what exactly our ethics are that prohibit modifying primates.

    In fact, I would love to hear from any intelligent modern Western atheist what our ethics are at all!

    Our political rulers love to spout off about “who we are” as a pseudo-moral pronouncement, but could they really elaborate any cogent underlying rationale other than “more voters for us”?

    One suspects that when we gave up God and religion, we gave up morality and ethics at the same time, we just haven’t quite realized it yet. Now we live and act among fading ghosts of a former morality, while new fake ethics based on nothing but political power, sexual appetite and/or personal expediency take their place.

    Is it too much to say that this is the crisis underlying every other crisis of our time?

    • Agree: Kylie
  45. @Anon

    This is why China will rule the world. Their willingness to defy [morality] in order to advance themselves will ensure they dominate every industry and monopolize every major future advancement.

    FIFY

  46. Stan says:

    Great. Now people have to worry about reparations demands from genetically engineered monkeys.

  47. @Jack D

    …the Chinese will be breeding babies that have a guarantied minimum IQ of 130 or you get your money back from the in vitro lab.

    And any faulty products will be rendered inoperable and recycled appropriately, free of charge.

  48. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pat Hannagan

    Speaking of which, I came up for the solution to the most pressing issue of our time while at my crystal light bed therapy yesterday afternoon:

    Because a man who dresses up like a woman actually is a woman, does she become a man again when she dresses again as a man and chooses to be? It’s a fair question, given that trans people can switch up their preferences. Yet I don’t remember ever reading anyone asking this question. But I realized the answer is the same as for the question of whether a man can become a woman this way in the first place. Of course she does! But in fact it relies on something more: public acceptance. It does no good for transpeople to merely claim they’re a different gender, they were doing this before the current enlightenment, and no one believed them then, so they were stuck with what they were born with. It was only by a sudden massive widespread acceptance that the public was graced with finally accepting them for who they really were, and then they really were this new identity! Public acceptance therefore made them into a real, new gender!

    Bear with me, because this random rambling will bear fruit at the end. This led me to realize that we have a solution for one of the most pressing problems of our time, global warming, already in our midst. Now, you know and I know that some people just won’t get along. I’m talking about you, white heterosexual Christian male! We progressives recognize that only ending capitalism and abolishing manufacturing in white countries will do it, and the republitards will never agree. But what if there was a more elegant solution, a simpler solution we could all agree on, and easily implement right now?
    I call it Solar Truth, the sun being what it truly is. Global warming is due to greedy white men producing too many greenhouse gasses, trapping in too much solar radiation. The in-the-box thinking that we have restricted ourselves to thus far is dealing with trying to reduce the greenhouse gasses. But what about a progressive, alternative solution that reduces the solar input? If we recognize collectively, that the sun in fact is a giant moon if we, right-thinking progressives realize it actually is a moon, and that it can then go back to being a sun again, then all our problems are solved. We can set a time, let’s say Sunday mornings from 8-8:15am, where the sun actually becomes a moon. No one will be too bothered anyway, they tend to sleep in a bit extra on the weekends. Well, at least no one who isn’t Christian, but again they got us into this mess, so tough. The reduced solar output will offset the increase in greenhouse gasses in the air, permitting us to overcome the effective increase in trapped solar energy we currently receive. It is not merely a moon, it is a giant moon, which we recognize is exactly the same mass as the sun, so it’s gravitational pull changes not one bit. And we can also all recognize that not one other thing changes, only the light/heat output for a little while, so Republitards can’t pull any of their usual ‘rational thinking’ crap like,”well what about solar flares, or the magnetosphere, or…” .

    Now, this idea still needs a little tweaking; there should be some calculations to get an idea of exactly how much time the sun is required to be a moon (it may not be 15 minutes/week). And perhaps there should be some polling by questionnaire to find the most agreeable time for most people. And this would be a good time to implement a progressive stack, multiply the results of minorities by their stacking order. Too bad, Cishet white males, you had your chance but you squandered it getting us into this mess. And the beauty of this situation is, if we realize that our greenhouse gasses are continuing to rise (probably some selfish white man somewhere being all ‘technology developing’ and all), we can extend the window- maybe the sun becomes the moon for, for example, 18 minutes now. Easy, efficient, and readily achieved. Now, elected officials, when am I going to receive my questionnaire?

  49. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Indeed. It’s a Chinese planet. We just live on it.

  50. china typically ‘takes the lead’ in various fields by doing reckless stuff western scientists could have done years ago, but deliberately decided not to do.

    wait a minute…

    “an area where China has seized a technological edge.”

    you know who else always seizes things.

  51. @Hypnotoad666

    Sounds too much like work (and empirical sociological research!) – no academic will touch it with a ten-foot pole.

    Someone with loot like Mr. Unz or one of the vanishingly few freaks with integrity like Jordan Peterson would have to be motivated to coordinate it.

    Ironically it used to be just the kind of useful and meaningful thing philanthropists like Carnegie, Ford, et al. and their foundations would undertake, but now they’d of course join Bezos, Gates, Cook et al. in suppressing it. Likewise governmental outfits like the NIH.

    #clownworld

    Maybe the Chinese anthropologists will undertake it in the year 3000 for forensic purposes if the records survive.

  52. Anonymous[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Sorry to disappoint.

    We are in a universe to all evidence severely limiting what can be done in principle and which suspiciously looks like the inside of an exploding clockwork, so that even the future may be severely restricted in extent.

    Can’t go faster than light.
    Can’t compute without energy dissipation smaller than the Landauer limit.
    Can’t crack even NP hard problems in practical time, even if Quantum Computers become possible.
    Can’t store more bits in a volume than some constant times the surface of a blackhole of said volume.
    Can’t go finer than a space/time/energy volume given by Heisenberg’s Constant.
    Available energy and information in the locally reachable universe is disappearing into swamps of entropy or behind the cosmological horizon as the universe expands.
    And the more we see the more it looks as if the laws describing everything are very simple and no big surprises are likely to be pulled out of a hat.

    etc. etc.

    We also have severe ecological, genetic and psychological problems as well as an interstellar environment inimical to biospheres, better take out insurance on these things first….

    Back to engineering within infuriating bounds. Did I mention economics and management?

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  53. guest says:

    “the first attempt to understand the evolution of human cognition using a transgenic monkey model”

    Yeah, I’m gonna go ahead and say this isn’t science. It’s just tiddly-winks.

  54. guest says:
    @anon

    None of that would actually make us gods, unless we cracked immortality or the creation of life ex nihilo.

  55. ‘Chinese scientists have put human brain genes in monkeys—and yes, they may be smarter…’

    They could do the same thing with blacks!

    I suppose the result would be sort of a really dark gypsy.

    …maybe not such a good idea.

  56. J.Ross says: • Website

    Leave it to the Chinese to eliminate all doubt about intellectual achievement and cheating.

  57. @Jack D

    Re the Breyer dissent, assuming you mean Dunn v. Price—actually, assuming nothing, all these stay-of-execution-reversal-of-stay-of-execution-dissent-from-reversal-of-stay go about the same way—it is hard not to conclude that Breyer—or whoever happens to be writing the supposedly impassioned, principled dissent this time—isn’t really dissenting based on his stated principles, but just throwing sand in the gears of a policy he disagrees with, capital punishment in this case. And you could even say the converse: that the conservative majority is forcing through a policy they favor, irrespective of specific legal principles. And probably both statements are true.

    A more honest debate would be:

    Breyer or other of usual Gang of Four (Ginsburg, Kagan, Sotomayor): “We oppose the death penalty and we will stop any death penalty case on any grounds we can find.”

    Normal Justices: “Capital punishment is the law per the Constitution, and we are sick of pettifogging delays of executions of obviously guilty convicts, so we will remove stays of execution irrespective of legal grounds.”

    Now the question: why, in the most powerful Court in the most powerful nation, are things not discussed honestly? Is it something to do with power? Legitimacy? Bureaucracy? Political correctness? Cultural timidity?

    Of course it is not just the Supreme Court. Almost every political debate, news story, etc. is less than frank, to put it mildly. Almost the entire public square is a form of political Kabuki, pretending to say something while the audience (mostly) understands it really means something else: something different but sort of related. (Obviously, Trump’s occasional outbursts of candor were part of his former appeal.)

    Whatever our complaints about the genocidalists on Twitter, their honesty is a bracingly refreshing amidst the stale miasmas of Big Media obfuscation.

    • Agree: Jack D
    • Replies: @Lot
  58. @songbird

    ‘A monkey-human hybrid would really clean up at the next Olympics.’

    They only dominate certain track events.

  59. @songbird

    We pretty much already have that. Watch an NBA game sometime.

  60. Is there any chance of locating the gibs-me-dat gene?

  61. Anonymuse says:

    If they can show that the modified monkeys can perform cognitive tasks no monkey can, that would be definitive proof, that IQ is controlled by based and so is inheritable. Will this end the politically motivated orthodoxy that discounts both those facts?

  62. Anonymuse says:

    At a time the World is shrinking with the simultaneous increase in tribalism and tribal conflict, we are going to create entirely new and weird tribes of part humans. Whither multiculturalism and neo-tribalism?

  63. Alfa158 says:
    @Jack D

    Like many libs, you can best understand why he does things by just imagining that his secret assignment in life is to throw wooden shoes into the gears of Western Civilization, every chance he gets. He’s just doing his job as vigorously and industriously as possible.
    Do this mental exercise, and everything you see from our self assigned superiors makes perfect sense.

  64. Lot says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    It will be easier to boost the IQ of low IQ populations than high IQ populations, as we high IQ populations already have a lot of the top IQ increasing genes.

    On the other hand, there is not really any economic incentive for costly IQ boosting genetic engineering of Abo populations, nor an Outback fertility clinic infrastructure. And I doubt that even if subsidized Abos would be much into it. Further, there’s an even easier way to boost Abo IQ: stop the drinking and drug use of their pregnant women.

  65. @El Dato

    I read the second trilogy of Brin’s Uplift Universe. It was pretty good, as I recall.

  66. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    “the Chinese will be breeding babies that have a guarantied minimum IQ of 130 or you get your money back from the in vitro lab.”

    Using current tech we can embryo select and get maybe a 3 IQ point boost over the parents’ expected offspring IQ. CRISPR in a few of the Ashkenazi recessive brain disease genes and get maybe another 3 or 4, but we don’t have the tech for that, and there’s the obvious downside of being a carrier for a lethal recessive disease.

    The hard problems of human genetic engineering also include:

    1. Requires egg removal surgery
    2. In vitro babies are probably slightly less vigorous than naturally made ones. That doesn’t preclude the advantage of selection being even greater, but is a slight weight against it.
    3. The same issue could be worse for engineered embryos (as opposed to just sequenced and tested ones).

    • Replies: @Jack D
  67. Lot says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Very well said.

    “why, in the most powerful Court in the most powerful nation, are things not discussed honestly”

    Part of the blame goes on Kennedy and O’Connor, who for 35 years rewarded moderate mush, from either the liberals or conservatives, with their swing votes.

    After so long, now it is a sort of habit.

    Thomas has always been refreshing for opting out of that and just writing what he thinks. However, if none of the conservatives played ball, Kennedy and O’Connor would have voted with the liberal more.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  68. anon[148] • Disclaimer says:

    “This is why China will rule the world. Their willingness to defy [morality] in order to advance themselves will ensure they dominate every industry and monopolize every major future advancement. — FIFY.”

    You didn’t fix anything. All you did was faceplant. The use of the word “moralism” was appropriate here. Moralism: noun; “Often undue concern for morality.”

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Random Smartaleck
  69. anon[148] • Disclaimer says:

    “If they can show that the modified monkeys can perform cognitive tasks no monkey can, that would be definitive proof, that IQ is controlled by based and so is inheritable. Will this end the politically motivated orthodoxy that discounts both those facts?”

    No, it won’t because this experiment has already been done previously in mice and they were also smarter: https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/human-brain-gene-foxp2-makes-mice-smarter-in-some-ways-1.2766955

  70. @njguy73

    Not after the performance Gruden put in last year. Plus they already signed Burfict this offseason.

  71. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

  72. Anon[856] • Disclaimer says:

    Eh, this is nothing. I await the moment when the Chinese figure out how to make blacks smarter. Then I’ll be impressed.

  73. This is just part of their plan to take over Africa, as these apes are close to being as smart as the natives the Chinese will be dealing with,

  74. @njguy73

    Though the animal cannot speak [except to mumble inarticulately], it has a sign language lexicon of over twelve thousand words, and an IQ of almost 85, and most notably a vague sense of self-awareness.

    Reduce the creature’s weight by about four or five hundred pounds and it becomes indistinguishable from most of those already playing in the NFL….

  75. @Alfa158

    After going to all of that trouble, they’re going to find out what a lot of these DNA-dynasty parents find out: it’s not all about raw intelligence. The few successful intellects that rise above the rest have certain character traits that combine with intelligence and probably some environmental influences to produce superior work. They won’t be able to control it in a test tube. What a bitter disappointment that will be.

  76. @Anonymous

    You’ve listed a set of constraints that science currently thinks are binding.

    Without getting New Age-y or woo-woo, it’s entirely possible that our best minds’ current assessments are limited by our sensors, which are restricted to R3+ (i.e., spacetime, with time in one direction only, as far as we can work out).

    It’s easy enough to trawl through the pages of scientific history and identify issues about which the ‘dominant paradigm’ was proven wrong by subsequent observation (and sometimes it had already been ‘proved’ wrong by theorising that was contemporaneous with, but not consistent with, the dominant paradigm).

    The universe will almost certainly turn out to require more than R3+ to explain things properly. It is massively unlikely that we humans happen to be able to discern all dimensions necessary to explain universe-spanning macrophenomena, when we already understand that it takes more than R3+ to explain phenomena at very small scales.

    The fact that our ‘in built’ sensors are fairly shit (hearing in a relatively narrow frequency range; vision likewise; no way to experience electromagnetism) imposed limits on our scientific research until we worked out there was stuff missing from our “field of view” (so we built machines to broaden our range of experience, which revealed a shitload of goings-on of which we were previously unaware).

    Only the most hidebound pessimist would think that there are no as-yet undiscovered ‘quirks’ that have hitherto escaped our notice, and that we know everything there is to know about the ‘core’ ground rules… less than 200 years after we started being able to use electricity.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  77. @TelfoedJohn

    What about inserting Chinese and Ashkenazi IQ genes into Congolese Pygmies and Australian Aborigines?

    The Chinese are very active in Africa. They could be doing this as we speak. Or type, whatever.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  78. @njguy73

    and most notably a vague sense of self-awareness

    Something our ruling class lacks.

  79. @TelfoedJohn

    What about inserting Chinese and Ashkenazi IQ genes into Congolese Pygmies and Australian Aborigines?

    Speculating:

    I think this would show some gains, but i think what we’ll find is that it is a very large “package” of genes that accounts for racial IQ differences.

    A obvious example is head size. You could find some genes linked to say thinker gray matter or more of some type of neuro-transmitter in whites. You insert those genes and see some improvements. But you really need to get a flat out bigger brain, in a bigger skull, in order to get the thicker cortical tissue and make good use of those genes.

    ~~

    The simpler way to introduce higher IQ genes to Black Africans or Australians Aborigines, is for a lot of white or Chinese men to mate with their women. Those children will pick up a lot more of higher IQ gene sets, and being smart should be relatively more successful and ergo reproductively more successful.

    However, that assumes that these white\Asian qualities–much higher IQ, conscientiousness, cooperation, lower time preference actually pay off reproductively in sub-saharan Africa. And obviously, historically they did not to the same extent. How much that has changed with the introduction of white technology to Africa–don’t know. I’m guessing, not a whole lot.

    Making the civilized races really was a process of gene-culture co-evolution-the improved biology allowing the development of more civilized culture that in turn provided a selective enviroment for further advance.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  80. @Reg Cæsar

    What about inserting Chinese and Ashkenazi IQ genes into Congolese Pygmies and Australian Aborigines?

    The Chinese are very active in Africa. They could be doing this as we speak. Or type, whatever.

    But why would they want to?

    The logically program is to engineer improvements in *your* race, not the other guy’s. And if the Chinese want Africa or simply want Africa to be unpoor, they can instead move in and take it.

    I don’t think the Chinese think they have to take up the white man’s burden.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  81. @Kratoklastes

    “Undiscovered quirks” sure.

    But we have zero evidence within R3+ that there is some big something or another going on that is affecting R3+. R3+ appears to be a closed system with a relatively tractable set of rules with then lots of interesting complexity built up because of the operation of those rules on many bodies and then the development of “life”.

    One might speculate the rules were setup to create life?–or not, as ones preferences dictate.

  82. Jack D says:
    @Lot

    “Using current tech”. There’s a lot we can’t do using current tech. Using current tech, telecommunications used to take place at 110 baud and a 5 megabyte hard disk was the size of a washing machine. Tech gets better.

    You’re right that it’s not worth the expense and risk right now if all you are going to get is 6 or 8 pts in IQ plus recessive neurological diseases in all your descendants. But what if it was no diseases, 15 points and this is going to be your one and only offspring? A certain % of births take place using in vitro anyway. If you are going to be implanting an embryo at large expense, why not a 1st quality embryo – one that has been tested for genetic diseases, all the defects edited out, a few superior genes spliced in – not just some randomly formed embryo but one that has been given a complete tune up? Get rid of the cancer prone genes, the male pattern baldness genes, etc. Splice in some genes associated with longevity, AIDs resistance, high intelligence, etc. Edit out all the typos from your family’s germ line. At some point, the proposition becomes very tempting to wealthier Chinese families.

    At around the time this technology becomes widely available to the public in China, back in the West, we are still going to be 10 years from deciding whether we can start trials on monkeys.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Desiderius
  83. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    How much that has changed with the introduction of white technology to Africa–don’t know. I’m guessing, not a whole lot.

    I think white technology has been a game changer. With malaria control measures, air conditioning, etc. Nairobi could be a perfectly livable city for whites or Asians if you could get rid of the local black population. Whites are a declining race and can’t even populate their own cities, but in the long run this is something the Chinese might be interested in.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  84. @Jack D

    We had to use donor eggs and ended up with 17 embryos (an unusually high amount) out of which they picked the two healthiest looking. We now have freakishly tall twins, reading at 20 months, no illness, etc…

    There’s stealth eugenics going on already.

  85. @Jack D

    With malaria control measures,

    air conditioning

    , etc.

    I know Steve has been harping on air conditioning pretty much since I started reading his blog, but I think it’s BS. Long before air conditioning became common, the south’s population was increasing in leaps and bounds. For instance, from 1900 to 1940, before affordable air conditioners became available, Dallas’s population went up 7x. In that interval, NYC’s and Chicago’s population merely went up 2x.

    https://www.energy.gov/articles/history-air-conditioning
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Dallas
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_New_York_City
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago

    The real problem in the South was malaria and yellow fever. Once widespread spraying commenced, starting in the 1940’s (using DDT initially), outbreaks of mosquito-borne diseases became far more isolated, paving the way for mass settlement of Southern cities such that at the turn of the 21st century, many had 10x their populations 100 years earlier, and most had at least pentupled, as compared to Northeastern cities where the vast majority had at most doubled.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Atlanta
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis,_Tennessee#Demographics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark,_New_Jersey#Demographics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston#Demographics
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Philadelphia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo,_New_York#Demographics

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  86. @AnotherDad

    The logically program is to engineer improvements in *your* race, not the other guy’s.

    Raising the African IQ just a few points would pay off in productivity for Chinese firms operating there.

  87. @anon

    The use of the word “moralism” was appropriate here. Moralism: noun; “Often undue concern for morality.”

    It’s too dismissive for what are issues that deserve serious consideration, and China and its Western cheerleaders are increasingly moving past not only “undue concern,” but any concern at all.

  88. @Johann Ricke

    Hookworm sapped the vitality of southerners. The Rockefeller Foundation went after it in the 1910s and 1920s. Getting rid of hookworm contributed much to the newfound vitality of the South.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?