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From USA Today:

Ellen Pao trial is big news in China
Elizabeth Weise, USATODAY 7:39 p.m. EDT March 17, 2015

SAN FRANCISCO — Silicon Valley may be watching the Ellen Pao trial with bated breath, but there are even larger audiences following on a daily basis: China and the Chinese-American community in the United States.

Pao is suing the Menlo Park, Calif., venture-capital firm of Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers for gender bias and retaliation. She is asking for $16 million in lost wages and future earnings.

Chinese-language media is following the case closely for Chinese speakers in the United States and in Taiwan and China.

“Because she’s Chinese American, she speaks Chinese, she went to Ivy League schools, and because it’s technology, everyone’s interested,” said Portia Li, a reporter with the U.S.based World Journal.

“For us, this is a top story in terms of hits on our site every day,” she said….

The Pao story brings up multiple themes that are of great interest to the Chinese community, Li said. Pao’s parents are from China, though she grew up in New Jersey. She is a fluent Mandarin speaker who helped set up Kleiner Perkins’ China office and traveled frequently to China for work.

Pao is also a graduate of the kind of name-brand universities (Princeton and Harvard) and with the degrees (electrical engineering, law and an MBA) to which Chinese families often aspire, said Li.

But the Chinese don’t seem to care about gender bias, they just care about picking up tips for their Tiger Cubs on Dos and Don’ts for getting ahead in venture capital:

“Her story fits with the hopes and dreams of the second generation. Parents want their kids to go to top schools, and they want them to work for top companies,” she said.

Silicon Valley is also a big employer of Chinese and Chinese-American workers. In some firms like Google, up to 30% of the tech staff is Asian. “It’s a window into this world,” Li said.

Unfortunately, the article doesn’t recount what the Chinese think of Ms. Pao’s gay black husband, The Talented Mr. Fletcher.

 
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  1. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    “gay black husband”

    A bromo?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tim
    “gay black husband”

    A bromo?

    Brilliant. I have GOT to use that.
    , @Stumpy Pepys
    That would be a "bleard"
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. Isn’t it obvious that Pao is a scorned woman? It’s pretty clear she set her sights on Doerr, not on any of the lesser lights, like that Indian guy. That was just a way to make Doerr jealous. She worked for Doerr as his close assistant for years. Why else would a Harvard MBA/JD want to work as an admin for years? She reminds me of Wendi Deng. When Doerr and KCPB suggested that she get a job at one of portfolio companies, it was like he was breaking up with her. This whole law suit is a way to get back at Doerr.

    Read More
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  3. South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.

    It’s that and Asians not being in one’s face.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything. One can be shady and generally have no civic pride, but as long as you bust hump and claw your way to the top, and aren’t too brazen towards people who are not your underlings, there’s going to be a large group of Americans (many of ‘em in the GOP) that will make excuses for you.

    A scrappy underling is always a good guy because manichean Americans naively don’t understand that the oppressed can be as flawed as their oppressors, and suffering is not always an ennobling experience. Some of the confused understand this when it comes to talking about angry black folk, but American provincialism precludes their ability to be wary of dealing with foreigners with long histories of oppression or living in societies characterized by low trust or amoral familism.

    Case in point, Ahmed Chalabi and Curveball.

    Mark Twain was on to American susceptibility to foreign hucksters long ago. Think of the adulation given the Dolphin in Huck Finn.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    White Americans do not feel threatened by Asians because the latter have extremely low crime rates (lower than those of whites) and assimilate well with whites in small numbers. Nonetheless, the fact that so many Asians become a part of the moneyed elites so quickly seem to unnerve some whites. Witness the whole Tiger Mom hysteria as an example.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything.
     
    It's not just because they work hard. It's partly because they have contributed to the advancement of the society (just open any peer-reviewed scientific journal and look at the surnames of the authors). And also because until recently they have been non-transgressive and assimilated well.

    Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That's an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  4. I have to say, with all the extra advantages given to women these days, I wonder if sex-selective abortions will start favoring girls. Then there will be too many women and feminists will complain.

    Read More
    • Replies: @colm
    Then the women will mate with people the readers of this blog will not like too much, since these people will still favor men.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.

    Once again it didn’t take long for a sexless nerd to derail a conversation. Because every discussion about Asians has to be about sex.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anowow
    So sex isn't part of the Pao story? This story is a good example of the intersection of sex, race and class. To paraphrase Robert California, sex is everything.

    But hey, you get points for a smug zinger and signaling to the rest of us you are a man's man. Must have been quite a rush, showing who is the man here in the forums.

    I'm back off to my naughty sites now, sir, having been dutifuly humbled.

    , @Eustace Tilley (not)
    Bert:

    Sit down and be quiet. And stop interrupting the grownups.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. @Bert

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    Once again it didn't take long for a sexless nerd to derail a conversation. Because every discussion about Asians has to be about sex.

    So sex isn’t part of the Pao story? This story is a good example of the intersection of sex, race and class. To paraphrase Robert California, sex is everything.

    But hey, you get points for a smug zinger and signaling to the rest of us you are a man’s man. Must have been quite a rush, showing who is the man here in the forums.

    I’m back off to my naughty sites now, sir, having been dutifuly humbled.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Good post
    , @Twinkie

    To paraphrase Robert California, sex is everything.
     
    As the saying goes, an intellectual is someone who finds something other than sex interesting.

    People who think "sex is everything"? Well, draw your own conclusions.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. So sex isn’t part of the Pao story?

    It may be part of it, but it’s not the primary motivation and it’s stupid for you to assume that it is. As shocking as this may sound, NOT EVERY ISSUE INVOLVING WOMEN HAS TO BE ABOUT SEX.

    If you want to use quotes from a cartoon to justify a broad view of two racial groups, go right ahead and see how many people laugh at you for being a total moron.

    Read More
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  8. Oh well, the article’s author and of the book A Parent’s Guide to Mandarin Immersion Elizabeth Weise, can rest assured.

    Ms Weise knows that someday her darling girls will no longer be attending public school having been safely cocooned from the, good for you but not for me, type of diversity all around them in Glen Park San Francisco, you know the NAM kind, by having been enrolled in the special Mandarin immersion schools set up by her fellow rich SWPLs.

    However, her precious little box turtles will be well prepared to at least one day serve our new Asian overlords if not rule along side them as prime examples of the Mandarin speaking chosen people.

    Read More
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  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    What subsequent generations of Chinese, East Indians , et al., will realize is, that all of their traditional brute force routes of attainment won’t be effective when there is no one left to host on. In fact, these peoples are here (in Western
    -Gentile society) due to the first significant group of parasitoids. Good luck Chinese immigrant children, with your degrees from elite institutions founded by Western Gentiles, when there is no one left to host on. Good luck, India, with all your coders when there is no one left to host on. The hodgepodge remnant will not be easy to host on. Rapidly diminishing returns.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Good luck Chinese immigrant children, with your degrees from elite institutions founded by Western Gentiles, when there is no one left to host on.
     
    While China's future is up in the air, Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese seem to be doing just fine in their own countries without white hosts.
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  10. […] Source: Steve Sailer […]

    Read More
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  11. Read More
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  12. @Priss Factor
    "gay black husband"

    A bromo?

    “gay black husband”

    A bromo?

    Brilliant. I have GOT to use that.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. @Priss Factor
    "gay black husband"

    A bromo?

    That would be a “bleard”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. @anowow
    So sex isn't part of the Pao story? This story is a good example of the intersection of sex, race and class. To paraphrase Robert California, sex is everything.

    But hey, you get points for a smug zinger and signaling to the rest of us you are a man's man. Must have been quite a rush, showing who is the man here in the forums.

    I'm back off to my naughty sites now, sir, having been dutifuly humbled.

    Good post

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. @Bert

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    Once again it didn't take long for a sexless nerd to derail a conversation. Because every discussion about Asians has to be about sex.

    Bert:

    Sit down and be quiet. And stop interrupting the grownups.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. Marty [AKA "mel belli"] says:

    Why whites don’t feel threatened by Asians? Hmmm, pretty simple:

    Asians aren’t violent (blacks);
    Asians don’t do phony “work” (women);
    Asians speak good English (Mexicans);
    Asians are clean (Queers)

    And like the Scots, Asians love golf. So South Park was all wet on that one.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  17. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factor"] says:

    Tribal Trial.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  18. I wouldn’t trust anyone with those three degrees.

    Something seems fishy about getting an EE, law and a MBA degree.

    Apparently that “wowed” employers though and now they are paying for it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    Any two of those are not uncommon. All three tells me we have someone smart enough to plow through any grad or professional school program-vet school, med school, CPA, anything besides a really rigorous physics or math Ph.D maybe-but is unlikely to be actually any good as either a design engineer or any kind of law where real money lurks.

    Call her an Academic Adventuress.
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  19. Yeah, sex is a “uge” part of the Pao story! I am baffled that the Kleiner, Perkins…defense lawyers seem to be so passive in this case so far. I know they were hamstrung by the prosecuting attorneys to not bring up the layers, layers, and more dirty money layers of possible creepy corruption and dubious sexual and financial behavior of both Pao and her current husband. I mean, Pao, the creep, did have an affair at KPC & B with a married man…you just don’t rise to the top of a company by sleeping with married men…or the boss….I thought that was common knowledge. Of course, I always thought the girls at elite universities were so inept and inexperienced when it came to sex and guys…I guess drinking on campuses now, too. They were the nerdy “good girls,” who always studied, even in HS. I probably, looking back, should have hit the books harder! But, I have no regrets, I truly had fun in the 80′s.

    She actually, makes me really sick. This will backfire in a big way for all women and particularly, Asian women…and that’s my pithy prediction as a woman who was graduated from an elite east coast university. Asians watching this should be very nervous; there is nothing positive to be gleaned from her case. Asians are not, incidentally, getting into the Ivies like they had just a few years ago…that is now, officially over. Ivies are getting rid of SAT score reports altogether…or they are ignoring them-this I know for a fact…but that’s a side issue.

    Why does everyone insist that anyone who went to an Ivy League school or such, is somehow, of course, super-smart anyway? This was and still is, not the case: EVERYONE from an Ivy is not superior to everyone else; or an obvious shoe-in for an executive position in SV. Also, it’s fine to have degrees in engineering or law, but that is still not a birthright for executive status and executive pay.

    This just makes me so mad. And, you heard it here first: Women will come into your organization (in SV), be duplicitous, and find an angle to screw you or the company or both. So, better build a bunker, hire a bunch of “diversity executives” – a kind of front to let the outside world think SV will open up to more women. No, the walls just got higher, and the ceiling is titanium.

    Executives have the perfect trifecta of charisma, empathy (or perceived empathy) and intelligence. Many people I know who may have “Ivy League-like” status are dull, uncharismatic and have low-affect. So, I believe she is delusional into thinking she had the “right stuff,” in this law-suit. I think she is broke and boxed-in, and no one, and I mean no one (Reddit is probably chewing off their arm now, since she is weirdly, wielding power there now) will ever hire her again unless they are delusional as well. And, I think that is the basis of her thinking. Men should stop believing sleeping around outside of marriage or in an organization equivalent to a court in some medieval city of long ago is not gonna blow-up in their face or pants.

    Does it never occur to anyone who is involved with this case that she may be a sociopath? I say the smear campaign about her being a home-wrecker and still married to a shyster has to start…then the Chinese can watch like an episode of “The Real Housewives of BH or Orange County.” If Pao gets her settlement, there should be a stipulation that the half she gets, should be given to battered women’s shelters in the greater Bay Area region. Then she may seem like a person of integrity and not a major manipulator with narcissistic tendencies.

    For the record, I have never felt “held back” from achieving anything for being a woman but I have also worked in the creative sphere which is ruthless and doesn’t care about gender or ethnicity…if your design/idea sucks, you won’t get the job.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    She actually, makes me really sick. This will backfire in a big way for all women and particularly, Asian women…and that’s my pithy prediction as a woman who was graduated from an elite east coast university. Asians watching this should be very nervous; there is nothing positive to be gleaned from her case. Asians are not, incidentally, getting into the Ivies like they had just a few years ago…that is now, officially over. Ivies are getting rid of SAT score reports altogether…or they are ignoring them-this I know for a fact…but that’s a side issue.
     
    No, Asians (all 20 million of them in the U.S., I presume) should not and are not going to be "very nervous" over some random ambitious ethnic Asian female having a variety of issues of her own.

    The rest of your post strikes me as so much unnecessary resentment and envy toward the financially successful "Ivy League types" by an artsy person with a chip on her shoulder.


    For the record, I have never felt “held back” from achieving anything for being a woman but I have also worked in the creative sphere which is ruthless and doesn’t care about gender or ethnicity…if your design/idea sucks, you won’t get the job.
     
    That's right, people in "the creative sphere" aren't human beings and are not subject to laws of human nature. So of course there is absolutely no "gender or ethnicity" issue in the field.

    BTW, "Viking" fan, are ye?

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  20. @anowow
    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don't feel threatened by Asians. Basically it's all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.

    It's that and Asians not being in one's face.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything. One can be shady and generally have no civic pride, but as long as you bust hump and claw your way to the top, and aren't too brazen towards people who are not your underlings, there's going to be a large group of Americans (many of 'em in the GOP) that will make excuses for you.

    A scrappy underling is always a good guy because manichean Americans naively don't understand that the oppressed can be as flawed as their oppressors, and suffering is not always an ennobling experience. Some of the confused understand this when it comes to talking about angry black folk, but American provincialism precludes their ability to be wary of dealing with foreigners with long histories of oppression or living in societies characterized by low trust or amoral familism.

    Case in point, Ahmed Chalabi and Curveball.

    Mark Twain was on to American susceptibility to foreign hucksters long ago. Think of the adulation given the Dolphin in Huck Finn.

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.

    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    White Americans do not feel threatened by Asians because the latter have extremely low crime rates (lower than those of whites) and assimilate well with whites in small numbers. Nonetheless, the fact that so many Asians become a part of the moneyed elites so quickly seem to unnerve some whites. Witness the whole Tiger Mom hysteria as an example.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything.

    It’s not just because they work hard. It’s partly because they have contributed to the advancement of the society (just open any peer-reviewed scientific journal and look at the surnames of the authors). And also because until recently they have been non-transgressive and assimilated well.

    Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That’s an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.

    Read More
    • Replies: @colm
    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.
    , @anowow
    Juvenile they may be, but perceptive they still are. The point being whites underestimate Asians. How broadly that principle was meant to be applied, I'm not sure. But whites, outside of heavily Asian areas, still don't quite understand the long-term consequences of ruthless ambition on the part of some of these folks. They still are laboring under the Calvinist concept that work is Godly and always good. Well, what of social stability and harmony? What of social cohesiveness? This is part of a larger problem with GOP movement conservatism. They don't adequately consider the destructive force that capitalism and ambition can have.

    Sex isn't everything? It determines our demographic future. If anything, I don't think we in the West take it seriously enough. We let girls aged 15-25 make far too many independent choices about mating. This isn't guy nerd talk, btw. Female friends with daughters have voiced the notion that arranged marriages ain't so bad.

    It is in our oldest stories. Helen launched a thousand ships and the tragedy of Enkidu and his friendship with Gilgamesh was started by a call girl.

    People kill each other over this stuff. The Bible is filled with stories about it and proscribed ways to kill people for illicit forms of it.

    On talking about other topics. It would be nice if people didn't go through life acting like they had just discovered genetilia, but not much can be expected of average folks. I say this as someone who worked around salt of the earth types in fly over country. On a given day, sex would be brought up at least 2-3 times an hour. This by grown, married people.

    Asian men might not be as kept out of the dating market as the stereotype would have it, but the stereotype exists. Enough to be noticed and bemoaned and a source of humor on a popular show.

    , @Inquiring Mind
    "That’s an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually."

    Electrical Engineers?
    , @Truth


    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.
     
    Twinkie, don't hate the pl... Damn, I forgot, how does that go again?

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/
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  21. @anowow
    So sex isn't part of the Pao story? This story is a good example of the intersection of sex, race and class. To paraphrase Robert California, sex is everything.

    But hey, you get points for a smug zinger and signaling to the rest of us you are a man's man. Must have been quite a rush, showing who is the man here in the forums.

    I'm back off to my naughty sites now, sir, having been dutifuly humbled.

    To paraphrase Robert California, sex is everything.

    As the saying goes, an intellectual is someone who finds something other than sex interesting.

    People who think “sex is everything”? Well, draw your own conclusions.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. “Pao is also a graduate of the kind of name-brand universities (Princeton and Harvard) and with the degrees (electrical engineering, law and an MBA) to which Chinese families often aspire, said Li.”

    It also guaranteed she’d be a total hard driving a**hole that no one wanted to be around as well. Your really have to have some serious OCD to do what she did. That doesn’t make for a decent human being.

    Really if that’s what Asians consider getting ahead, blowing your youth and emotional well being on accumulating a bunch of Ivy League degrees in the hopes it opens the right doors for you so you can wear a nice, expensive suit and make serious bank before your 35 and become a burnout and head case by 45. Then they ought to reconsider things.

    These folks are like bad caricatures of white Americans.

    Read More
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  23. @SFG
    I have to say, with all the extra advantages given to women these days, I wonder if sex-selective abortions will start favoring girls. Then there will be too many women and feminists will complain.

    Then the women will mate with people the readers of this blog will not like too much, since these people will still favor men.

    Read More
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  24. @Twinkie

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    White Americans do not feel threatened by Asians because the latter have extremely low crime rates (lower than those of whites) and assimilate well with whites in small numbers. Nonetheless, the fact that so many Asians become a part of the moneyed elites so quickly seem to unnerve some whites. Witness the whole Tiger Mom hysteria as an example.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything.
     
    It's not just because they work hard. It's partly because they have contributed to the advancement of the society (just open any peer-reviewed scientific journal and look at the surnames of the authors). And also because until recently they have been non-transgressive and assimilated well.

    Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That's an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.

    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You are correct. I live near the cognitive elite center of the universe, in Cambridge, MA. The WFs with AMs (only tallish non-FOBs need apply for WFs) are almost exclusively high-IQed and accomplished (e.g., Ph.D.'s at Genzyme or Draper). And the WM picks of the AFs (non-FOB and FOB) are usually significantly above average as well. Most Asians (not SEA) are good at sizing up quality white mates.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.
     
    The "round" is limited to the eyes!
    , @Twinkie

    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.
     
    Yes. Typically higher socio-economic demographic, which also means better educated and trimmer. I won't even go into a personal example this time since some readers, no doubt, are sick of the paeans about my wife.
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  25. @Twinkie

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    White Americans do not feel threatened by Asians because the latter have extremely low crime rates (lower than those of whites) and assimilate well with whites in small numbers. Nonetheless, the fact that so many Asians become a part of the moneyed elites so quickly seem to unnerve some whites. Witness the whole Tiger Mom hysteria as an example.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything.
     
    It's not just because they work hard. It's partly because they have contributed to the advancement of the society (just open any peer-reviewed scientific journal and look at the surnames of the authors). And also because until recently they have been non-transgressive and assimilated well.

    Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That's an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.

    Juvenile they may be, but perceptive they still are. The point being whites underestimate Asians. How broadly that principle was meant to be applied, I’m not sure. But whites, outside of heavily Asian areas, still don’t quite understand the long-term consequences of ruthless ambition on the part of some of these folks. They still are laboring under the Calvinist concept that work is Godly and always good. Well, what of social stability and harmony? What of social cohesiveness? This is part of a larger problem with GOP movement conservatism. They don’t adequately consider the destructive force that capitalism and ambition can have.

    Sex isn’t everything? It determines our demographic future. If anything, I don’t think we in the West take it seriously enough. We let girls aged 15-25 make far too many independent choices about mating. This isn’t guy nerd talk, btw. Female friends with daughters have voiced the notion that arranged marriages ain’t so bad.

    It is in our oldest stories. Helen launched a thousand ships and the tragedy of Enkidu and his friendship with Gilgamesh was started by a call girl.

    People kill each other over this stuff. The Bible is filled with stories about it and proscribed ways to kill people for illicit forms of it.

    On talking about other topics. It would be nice if people didn’t go through life acting like they had just discovered genetilia, but not much can be expected of average folks. I say this as someone who worked around salt of the earth types in fly over country. On a given day, sex would be brought up at least 2-3 times an hour. This by grown, married people.

    Asian men might not be as kept out of the dating market as the stereotype would have it, but the stereotype exists. Enough to be noticed and bemoaned and a source of humor on a popular show.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    They still are laboring under the Calvinist concept that work is Godly and always good.
     
    Much of that has to do with the fact that 1) East Asian immigrants are still substantially Protestant and 2) East Asian population is still significantly first or second generation. If you looked at the trajectory of the older and multi-generational Japanese-Americans, they become 1) genetically less Japanese and more white and 2) culturally more laid back white-ish Americans (long-haired surfer dudes as I called them in another comment).

    This is part of a larger problem with GOP movement conservatism. They don’t adequately consider the destructive force that capitalism and ambition can have.
     
    On the contrary, the movement conservative part of the center-right coalition is all too well aware of the pitfalls of materialism. It's the Chamber of Commerce types within that coalition who are not. I call them derisively "pocket book Republicans."

    Asian men might not be as kept out of the dating market as the stereotype would have it, but the stereotype exists. Enough to be noticed and bemoaned and a source of humor on a popular show.
     
    In my view, much of that is driven by Hollywood. All too often in the popular media, blacks are leaders, scientists, and doctors, Hispanics are goofy, well-meaning buddies, Asians are gang members or (sometimes buffo0nish) villains, and non-Jewish whites (esp. fair-haired country club types) are arrogant pricks and rapists.

    Absolutely the groups that are derided and/or villainized the most in mass media products are East Asian and WASP (esp. rural) white males. Hmmm, I wonder who consider them as competitors and rivals to be suppressed?
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  26. @Twinkie

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    White Americans do not feel threatened by Asians because the latter have extremely low crime rates (lower than those of whites) and assimilate well with whites in small numbers. Nonetheless, the fact that so many Asians become a part of the moneyed elites so quickly seem to unnerve some whites. Witness the whole Tiger Mom hysteria as an example.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything.
     
    It's not just because they work hard. It's partly because they have contributed to the advancement of the society (just open any peer-reviewed scientific journal and look at the surnames of the authors). And also because until recently they have been non-transgressive and assimilated well.

    Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That's an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.

    “That’s an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.”

    Electrical Engineers?

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  27. The thing that jumps out at me every time I see pictures related to this case is how physically repulsive Ellen Pao is. Her large man chin and immense forehead are just part of what make her face a genetic lottery loser. Also, her legal team should hire a style consultant – clearly, she’s paid attention to pursuing money her whole life, and not on the basics of color coordination and other aspects of how to put an outfit together.

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  28. Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That’s an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.

    The difference in divorce rate is interesting.

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  29. @Twinkie

    South Park had a pretty insightful notion of why white Americans don’t feel threatened by Asians. Basically it’s all about a lack of perceived sexual threat.
     
    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    White Americans do not feel threatened by Asians because the latter have extremely low crime rates (lower than those of whites) and assimilate well with whites in small numbers. Nonetheless, the fact that so many Asians become a part of the moneyed elites so quickly seem to unnerve some whites. Witness the whole Tiger Mom hysteria as an example.

    Asians are always held up as an example of a model minority and true American grit. Because working hard trumps everything.
     
    It's not just because they work hard. It's partly because they have contributed to the advancement of the society (just open any peer-reviewed scientific journal and look at the surnames of the authors). And also because until recently they have been non-transgressive and assimilated well.

    Contrary to the popularly-held beliefs about Asian males, about a third of American-born Asian males marry white women (the intermarriage rates for Asian women are about 9 percentage points higher). That's an awfully high rate of intermarriage for men who are supposedly undesirable sexually.

    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.

    Twinkie, don’t hate the pl… Damn, I forgot, how does that go again?

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/
     
    Of course, you are scientifically too illiterate to understand selection bias.

    You realize people on internet dating sites are those who have been unable to find partners in the normal, traditional venues of school, work, and church. Obviously you do not. Some might argue that it's a market for the less desirable and the "left overs" (I understand it's also a market for the green card-seeking).

    The best ones are already married as they say.

    For example, Korean males who were born in the U.S. or raised here since age 13 or below have intermarriage rates with white women of 35%. That's over a third of *all* of them marrying whites. Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%? Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It's not even a contest.
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  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @colm
    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.

    You are correct. I live near the cognitive elite center of the universe, in Cambridge, MA. The WFs with AMs (only tallish non-FOBs need apply for WFs) are almost exclusively high-IQed and accomplished (e.g., Ph.D.’s at Genzyme or Draper). And the WM picks of the AFs (non-FOB and FOB) are usually significantly above average as well. Most Asians (not SEA) are good at sizing up quality white mates.

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  31. @colm
    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.

    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.

    The “round” is limited to the eyes!

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  32. @Anonymous
    What subsequent generations of Chinese, East Indians , et al., will realize is, that all of their traditional brute force routes of attainment won't be effective when there is no one left to host on. In fact, these peoples are here (in Western
    -Gentile society) due to the first significant group of parasitoids. Good luck Chinese immigrant children, with your degrees from elite institutions founded by Western Gentiles, when there is no one left to host on. Good luck, India, with all your coders when there is no one left to host on. The hodgepodge remnant will not be easy to host on. Rapidly diminishing returns.

    Good luck Chinese immigrant children, with your degrees from elite institutions founded by Western Gentiles, when there is no one left to host on.

    While China’s future is up in the air, Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese seem to be doing just fine in their own countries without white hosts.

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  33. @colm
    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.

    And the kind of roundeyed women the slanted-eyes are likely to marry are vastly different from the yt women the NAM are likely to marry.

    Yes. Typically higher socio-economic demographic, which also means better educated and trimmer. I won’t even go into a personal example this time since some readers, no doubt, are sick of the paeans about my wife.

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  34. @Lagertha
    Yeah, sex is a "uge" part of the Pao story! I am baffled that the Kleiner, Perkins...defense lawyers seem to be so passive in this case so far. I know they were hamstrung by the prosecuting attorneys to not bring up the layers, layers, and more dirty money layers of possible creepy corruption and dubious sexual and financial behavior of both Pao and her current husband. I mean, Pao, the creep, did have an affair at KPC & B with a married man...you just don't rise to the top of a company by sleeping with married men...or the boss....I thought that was common knowledge. Of course, I always thought the girls at elite universities were so inept and inexperienced when it came to sex and guys...I guess drinking on campuses now, too. They were the nerdy "good girls," who always studied, even in HS. I probably, looking back, should have hit the books harder! But, I have no regrets, I truly had fun in the 80's.

    She actually, makes me really sick. This will backfire in a big way for all women and particularly, Asian women...and that's my pithy prediction as a woman who was graduated from an elite east coast university. Asians watching this should be very nervous; there is nothing positive to be gleaned from her case. Asians are not, incidentally, getting into the Ivies like they had just a few years ago...that is now, officially over. Ivies are getting rid of SAT score reports altogether...or they are ignoring them-this I know for a fact...but that's a side issue.

    Why does everyone insist that anyone who went to an Ivy League school or such, is somehow, of course, super-smart anyway? This was and still is, not the case: EVERYONE from an Ivy is not superior to everyone else; or an obvious shoe-in for an executive position in SV. Also, it's fine to have degrees in engineering or law, but that is still not a birthright for executive status and executive pay.

    This just makes me so mad. And, you heard it here first: Women will come into your organization (in SV), be duplicitous, and find an angle to screw you or the company or both. So, better build a bunker, hire a bunch of "diversity executives" - a kind of front to let the outside world think SV will open up to more women. No, the walls just got higher, and the ceiling is titanium.

    Executives have the perfect trifecta of charisma, empathy (or perceived empathy) and intelligence. Many people I know who may have "Ivy League-like" status are dull, uncharismatic and have low-affect. So, I believe she is delusional into thinking she had the "right stuff," in this law-suit. I think she is broke and boxed-in, and no one, and I mean no one (Reddit is probably chewing off their arm now, since she is weirdly, wielding power there now) will ever hire her again unless they are delusional as well. And, I think that is the basis of her thinking. Men should stop believing sleeping around outside of marriage or in an organization equivalent to a court in some medieval city of long ago is not gonna blow-up in their face or pants.

    Does it never occur to anyone who is involved with this case that she may be a sociopath? I say the smear campaign about her being a home-wrecker and still married to a shyster has to start...then the Chinese can watch like an episode of "The Real Housewives of BH or Orange County." If Pao gets her settlement, there should be a stipulation that the half she gets, should be given to battered women's shelters in the greater Bay Area region. Then she may seem like a person of integrity and not a major manipulator with narcissistic tendencies.

    For the record, I have never felt "held back" from achieving anything for being a woman but I have also worked in the creative sphere which is ruthless and doesn't care about gender or ethnicity...if your design/idea sucks, you won't get the job.

    She actually, makes me really sick. This will backfire in a big way for all women and particularly, Asian women…and that’s my pithy prediction as a woman who was graduated from an elite east coast university. Asians watching this should be very nervous; there is nothing positive to be gleaned from her case. Asians are not, incidentally, getting into the Ivies like they had just a few years ago…that is now, officially over. Ivies are getting rid of SAT score reports altogether…or they are ignoring them-this I know for a fact…but that’s a side issue.

    No, Asians (all 20 million of them in the U.S., I presume) should not and are not going to be “very nervous” over some random ambitious ethnic Asian female having a variety of issues of her own.

    The rest of your post strikes me as so much unnecessary resentment and envy toward the financially successful “Ivy League types” by an artsy person with a chip on her shoulder.

    For the record, I have never felt “held back” from achieving anything for being a woman but I have also worked in the creative sphere which is ruthless and doesn’t care about gender or ethnicity…if your design/idea sucks, you won’t get the job.

    That’s right, people in “the creative sphere” aren’t human beings and are not subject to laws of human nature. So of course there is absolutely no “gender or ethnicity” issue in the field.

    BTW, “Viking” fan, are ye?

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    • Replies: @Lagertha
    No, there's no resentment and no chip on my shoulder at all; makes me laugh, really. I am a 6th generation university educated woman (an unapologetic elitist,) and the Ivy League, Stanford & MIT are familiar places to me as are Cambridge and Oxford.

    But, I agree with you that I went too far to suggest that Asian women should be nervous in particular, when I really meant that ALL women should be worried...meaning once a deal is made with Pao, women will have a tougher time trying to be "picked for whatever SV dream team" they're interviewing for. No boss is going to be forced to pick a certain candidate who the pc police favors. There will be more "smoke and mirrors" as to exactly who gets on the executive track. BTW, just so you don't think I have "career envy," I have a few female friends who are CEOs, executives, partners in large co's/ corporations in CA, NYC and in Europe...some are, weirdly, already retired with "golden parachutes." And, I have male friends who are entrepreneurs, venture-capitalists, CEO's. And, I am independently wealthy and never envy anything or anyone. Money just relieves stress.

    I don't know why Pao irritates me so much, I am a misogynist, but I think she's a grifter who never got the memo to not have sexual relationships at the workplace, and not with married men. And, that she's cooked-up this whole lawsuit when maybe she should face the fact that she did not "have the right stuff" to begin with. Some people don't have talent after all.

    And, there's no such thing as an "artsy" person...there are artists, architects, composers, musicians, designers...that earn a living based on the quality of their talent, something that can not be measured like the performance of an executive or mid-level manager in a corporation - that was my point. And, yeah, in the "creative sphere," the gender or ethnicity you represent is not a factor for your work being selected by an organization over another artist. The organization decides whether it is good/or a good design or not. You can't sue them and say they aren't being fair to you if they hate your work.

    And, dude, I happen to think Pao is a sociopath, and I don't apologize for it.
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  35. @Twinkie

    She actually, makes me really sick. This will backfire in a big way for all women and particularly, Asian women…and that’s my pithy prediction as a woman who was graduated from an elite east coast university. Asians watching this should be very nervous; there is nothing positive to be gleaned from her case. Asians are not, incidentally, getting into the Ivies like they had just a few years ago…that is now, officially over. Ivies are getting rid of SAT score reports altogether…or they are ignoring them-this I know for a fact…but that’s a side issue.
     
    No, Asians (all 20 million of them in the U.S., I presume) should not and are not going to be "very nervous" over some random ambitious ethnic Asian female having a variety of issues of her own.

    The rest of your post strikes me as so much unnecessary resentment and envy toward the financially successful "Ivy League types" by an artsy person with a chip on her shoulder.


    For the record, I have never felt “held back” from achieving anything for being a woman but I have also worked in the creative sphere which is ruthless and doesn’t care about gender or ethnicity…if your design/idea sucks, you won’t get the job.
     
    That's right, people in "the creative sphere" aren't human beings and are not subject to laws of human nature. So of course there is absolutely no "gender or ethnicity" issue in the field.

    BTW, "Viking" fan, are ye?

    No, there’s no resentment and no chip on my shoulder at all; makes me laugh, really. I am a 6th generation university educated woman (an unapologetic elitist,) and the Ivy League, Stanford & MIT are familiar places to me as are Cambridge and Oxford.

    But, I agree with you that I went too far to suggest that Asian women should be nervous in particular, when I really meant that ALL women should be worried…meaning once a deal is made with Pao, women will have a tougher time trying to be “picked for whatever SV dream team” they’re interviewing for. No boss is going to be forced to pick a certain candidate who the pc police favors. There will be more “smoke and mirrors” as to exactly who gets on the executive track. BTW, just so you don’t think I have “career envy,” I have a few female friends who are CEOs, executives, partners in large co’s/ corporations in CA, NYC and in Europe…some are, weirdly, already retired with “golden parachutes.” And, I have male friends who are entrepreneurs, venture-capitalists, CEO’s. And, I am independently wealthy and never envy anything or anyone. Money just relieves stress.

    I don’t know why Pao irritates me so much, I am a misogynist, but I think she’s a grifter who never got the memo to not have sexual relationships at the workplace, and not with married men. And, that she’s cooked-up this whole lawsuit when maybe she should face the fact that she did not “have the right stuff” to begin with. Some people don’t have talent after all.

    And, there’s no such thing as an “artsy” person…there are artists, architects, composers, musicians, designers…that earn a living based on the quality of their talent, something that can not be measured like the performance of an executive or mid-level manager in a corporation – that was my point. And, yeah, in the “creative sphere,” the gender or ethnicity you represent is not a factor for your work being selected by an organization over another artist. The organization decides whether it is good/or a good design or not. You can’t sue them and say they aren’t being fair to you if they hate your work.

    And, dude, I happen to think Pao is a sociopath, and I don’t apologize for it.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    the Ivy League, Stanford & MIT are familiar places to me as are Cambridge and Oxford.
     
    Define "familiar places," please. Did you graduate from one of them or not?

    meaning once a deal is made with Pao, women will have a tougher time
     
    Pao is not the first or the last gold-digging, status-driven female type. Women of good birth and virtue do just fine whether or not Pao gets her hush money.

    BTW, just so you don’t think I have “career envy,” I have a few female friends who are CEOs, executives, partners in large co’s/ corporations in CA, NYC and in Europe…
     
    Was it Gore Vidal who said that every time his friend succeeded a piece of him died?

    And, I am independently wealthy and never envy anything or anyone.
     
    I don't think anyone should be proud of inheriting or marrying into money. My wife and I hail from very good families, but we declined all parental support after college (we figured we received far more than many of our peers) and earned every cent we have. And once we were reasonably secure, I served our country's national interests and my wife took care of our children and worked on charity (she has a doctorate in a STEM field). A real lack of envy comes from achievement, not getting stuff for free.

    And, yeah, in the “creative sphere,” the gender or ethnicity you represent is not a factor for your work being selected by an organization over another artist.
     
    Yeah, okay. There is no politicization in the "creative sphere" at all.
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  36. I wonder why there’s nothing about Pao in ChinaSmack.

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  37. by the way Steve can you do something about that page?

    http://www.isteve.com/abortion.htm

    it looks like someone hijacked it and filled it with spam/gibberish. your article isn’t there anymore

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    • Replies: @Seran
    URA Rx
    Sounds like
    You are a reactionary
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  38. @Martin
    by the way Steve can you do something about that page?

    http://www.isteve.com/abortion.htm

    it looks like someone hijacked it and filled it with spam/gibberish. your article isn't there anymore

    URA Rx
    Sounds like
    You are a reactionary

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  39. @anowow
    Juvenile they may be, but perceptive they still are. The point being whites underestimate Asians. How broadly that principle was meant to be applied, I'm not sure. But whites, outside of heavily Asian areas, still don't quite understand the long-term consequences of ruthless ambition on the part of some of these folks. They still are laboring under the Calvinist concept that work is Godly and always good. Well, what of social stability and harmony? What of social cohesiveness? This is part of a larger problem with GOP movement conservatism. They don't adequately consider the destructive force that capitalism and ambition can have.

    Sex isn't everything? It determines our demographic future. If anything, I don't think we in the West take it seriously enough. We let girls aged 15-25 make far too many independent choices about mating. This isn't guy nerd talk, btw. Female friends with daughters have voiced the notion that arranged marriages ain't so bad.

    It is in our oldest stories. Helen launched a thousand ships and the tragedy of Enkidu and his friendship with Gilgamesh was started by a call girl.

    People kill each other over this stuff. The Bible is filled with stories about it and proscribed ways to kill people for illicit forms of it.

    On talking about other topics. It would be nice if people didn't go through life acting like they had just discovered genetilia, but not much can be expected of average folks. I say this as someone who worked around salt of the earth types in fly over country. On a given day, sex would be brought up at least 2-3 times an hour. This by grown, married people.

    Asian men might not be as kept out of the dating market as the stereotype would have it, but the stereotype exists. Enough to be noticed and bemoaned and a source of humor on a popular show.

    They still are laboring under the Calvinist concept that work is Godly and always good.

    Much of that has to do with the fact that 1) East Asian immigrants are still substantially Protestant and 2) East Asian population is still significantly first or second generation. If you looked at the trajectory of the older and multi-generational Japanese-Americans, they become 1) genetically less Japanese and more white and 2) culturally more laid back white-ish Americans (long-haired surfer dudes as I called them in another comment).

    This is part of a larger problem with GOP movement conservatism. They don’t adequately consider the destructive force that capitalism and ambition can have.

    On the contrary, the movement conservative part of the center-right coalition is all too well aware of the pitfalls of materialism. It’s the Chamber of Commerce types within that coalition who are not. I call them derisively “pocket book Republicans.”

    Asian men might not be as kept out of the dating market as the stereotype would have it, but the stereotype exists. Enough to be noticed and bemoaned and a source of humor on a popular show.

    In my view, much of that is driven by Hollywood. All too often in the popular media, blacks are leaders, scientists, and doctors, Hispanics are goofy, well-meaning buddies, Asians are gang members or (sometimes buffo0nish) villains, and non-Jewish whites (esp. fair-haired country club types) are arrogant pricks and rapists.

    Absolutely the groups that are derided and/or villainized the most in mass media products are East Asian and WASP (esp. rural) white males. Hmmm, I wonder who consider them as competitors and rivals to be suppressed?

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    • Replies: @anowow
    I think the critiques of Materialism are much more pointed and relevant among a small group of Evangelical thinkers, but for the rank and file its a muddled critique of "wordly" living and pop culture, for the pious, or a kind of latter day Arcadianism, preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias or suvs and who live in mcmansions or their kids do, if they are lucky enough. But that's God blessed prosperity, not materialism. It's different, I guess.

    And I'm not stereotyping here. I grew up in the rural South and watched tele evangelists every Sunday morning as a kid, including the late Dr. D. James Kennedy of that glass monstrosity in Florida.

    It's part of the general confusion amongst American Protestants where two competing traditions jocky for each other. One the one hand there is a pre-Modern, communal, residual Catholic earthiness, but it is mixed, uneasily, with an otherworldly, Messianic, Universalist, Invidualistic Protestantism woth Calvinist and Pietist strains, both of which are anathema to communal Old World traditions. Basically, the Reformation made Northern Europe and America schitzo.

    That's why these latter day yeomen can't argue back effectively against the liberals and the leftists. Protestant morality defines the discussion and the narrative. They have nothing to fall back on. It's also why their clergy often become pro-immigrant or Missionizing busibodies if they follow Protestant morality to its logical conclusion. There's a reason why Burke was a Catholic and Wilberforce an Evangelical.

    These people would all be better off if they still had cults of local saints and shrines.


    What I don't understand is how Asia went from the place of scary Yellow Peril to cute and cuddly pokemons in American perception. Is it all just media?

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  40. @Truth


    No matter how amusing you might find a juvenile cartoon, you ought not to draw scientific conclusions about social issues from it.
     
    Twinkie, don't hate the pl... Damn, I forgot, how does that go again?

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/

    Of course, you are scientifically too illiterate to understand selection bias.

    You realize people on internet dating sites are those who have been unable to find partners in the normal, traditional venues of school, work, and church. Obviously you do not. Some might argue that it’s a market for the less desirable and the “left overs” (I understand it’s also a market for the green card-seeking).

    The best ones are already married as they say.

    For example, Korean males who were born in the U.S. or raised here since age 13 or below have intermarriage rates with white women of 35%. That’s over a third of *all* of them marrying whites. Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%? Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It’s not even a contest.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It’s not even a contest.
     
    LOL; this is called "emotion based opinion" bro. Are you sure I'm the one who is "scientifically illiterate"?
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  41. @Lagertha
    No, there's no resentment and no chip on my shoulder at all; makes me laugh, really. I am a 6th generation university educated woman (an unapologetic elitist,) and the Ivy League, Stanford & MIT are familiar places to me as are Cambridge and Oxford.

    But, I agree with you that I went too far to suggest that Asian women should be nervous in particular, when I really meant that ALL women should be worried...meaning once a deal is made with Pao, women will have a tougher time trying to be "picked for whatever SV dream team" they're interviewing for. No boss is going to be forced to pick a certain candidate who the pc police favors. There will be more "smoke and mirrors" as to exactly who gets on the executive track. BTW, just so you don't think I have "career envy," I have a few female friends who are CEOs, executives, partners in large co's/ corporations in CA, NYC and in Europe...some are, weirdly, already retired with "golden parachutes." And, I have male friends who are entrepreneurs, venture-capitalists, CEO's. And, I am independently wealthy and never envy anything or anyone. Money just relieves stress.

    I don't know why Pao irritates me so much, I am a misogynist, but I think she's a grifter who never got the memo to not have sexual relationships at the workplace, and not with married men. And, that she's cooked-up this whole lawsuit when maybe she should face the fact that she did not "have the right stuff" to begin with. Some people don't have talent after all.

    And, there's no such thing as an "artsy" person...there are artists, architects, composers, musicians, designers...that earn a living based on the quality of their talent, something that can not be measured like the performance of an executive or mid-level manager in a corporation - that was my point. And, yeah, in the "creative sphere," the gender or ethnicity you represent is not a factor for your work being selected by an organization over another artist. The organization decides whether it is good/or a good design or not. You can't sue them and say they aren't being fair to you if they hate your work.

    And, dude, I happen to think Pao is a sociopath, and I don't apologize for it.

    the Ivy League, Stanford & MIT are familiar places to me as are Cambridge and Oxford.

    Define “familiar places,” please. Did you graduate from one of them or not?

    meaning once a deal is made with Pao, women will have a tougher time

    Pao is not the first or the last gold-digging, status-driven female type. Women of good birth and virtue do just fine whether or not Pao gets her hush money.

    BTW, just so you don’t think I have “career envy,” I have a few female friends who are CEOs, executives, partners in large co’s/ corporations in CA, NYC and in Europe…

    Was it Gore Vidal who said that every time his friend succeeded a piece of him died?

    And, I am independently wealthy and never envy anything or anyone.

    I don’t think anyone should be proud of inheriting or marrying into money. My wife and I hail from very good families, but we declined all parental support after college (we figured we received far more than many of our peers) and earned every cent we have. And once we were reasonably secure, I served our country’s national interests and my wife took care of our children and worked on charity (she has a doctorate in a STEM field). A real lack of envy comes from achievement, not getting stuff for free.

    And, yeah, in the “creative sphere,” the gender or ethnicity you represent is not a factor for your work being selected by an organization over another artist.

    Yeah, okay. There is no politicization in the “creative sphere” at all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    No "getting stuff for free"/no "inheriting money"/no "marrying into money" here. I have always been independent of family, and I agree that achievement and doing something that is personally meaningful is central to happiness. Leave it that.
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  42. @Twinkie

    They still are laboring under the Calvinist concept that work is Godly and always good.
     
    Much of that has to do with the fact that 1) East Asian immigrants are still substantially Protestant and 2) East Asian population is still significantly first or second generation. If you looked at the trajectory of the older and multi-generational Japanese-Americans, they become 1) genetically less Japanese and more white and 2) culturally more laid back white-ish Americans (long-haired surfer dudes as I called them in another comment).

    This is part of a larger problem with GOP movement conservatism. They don’t adequately consider the destructive force that capitalism and ambition can have.
     
    On the contrary, the movement conservative part of the center-right coalition is all too well aware of the pitfalls of materialism. It's the Chamber of Commerce types within that coalition who are not. I call them derisively "pocket book Republicans."

    Asian men might not be as kept out of the dating market as the stereotype would have it, but the stereotype exists. Enough to be noticed and bemoaned and a source of humor on a popular show.
     
    In my view, much of that is driven by Hollywood. All too often in the popular media, blacks are leaders, scientists, and doctors, Hispanics are goofy, well-meaning buddies, Asians are gang members or (sometimes buffo0nish) villains, and non-Jewish whites (esp. fair-haired country club types) are arrogant pricks and rapists.

    Absolutely the groups that are derided and/or villainized the most in mass media products are East Asian and WASP (esp. rural) white males. Hmmm, I wonder who consider them as competitors and rivals to be suppressed?

    I think the critiques of Materialism are much more pointed and relevant among a small group of Evangelical thinkers, but for the rank and file its a muddled critique of “wordly” living and pop culture, for the pious, or a kind of latter day Arcadianism, preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias or suvs and who live in mcmansions or their kids do, if they are lucky enough. But that’s God blessed prosperity, not materialism. It’s different, I guess.

    And I’m not stereotyping here. I grew up in the rural South and watched tele evangelists every Sunday morning as a kid, including the late Dr. D. James Kennedy of that glass monstrosity in Florida.

    It’s part of the general confusion amongst American Protestants where two competing traditions jocky for each other. One the one hand there is a pre-Modern, communal, residual Catholic earthiness, but it is mixed, uneasily, with an otherworldly, Messianic, Universalist, Invidualistic Protestantism woth Calvinist and Pietist strains, both of which are anathema to communal Old World traditions. Basically, the Reformation made Northern Europe and America schitzo.

    That’s why these latter day yeomen can’t argue back effectively against the liberals and the leftists. Protestant morality defines the discussion and the narrative. They have nothing to fall back on. It’s also why their clergy often become pro-immigrant or Missionizing busibodies if they follow Protestant morality to its logical conclusion. There’s a reason why Burke was a Catholic and Wilberforce an Evangelical.

    These people would all be better off if they still had cults of local saints and shrines.

    What I don’t understand is how Asia went from the place of scary Yellow Peril to cute and cuddly pokemons in American perception. Is it all just media?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Former Darfur
    "preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias"

    The Crown Vic and its Panther Platform stablemates, the Town Car and Mercury Gran Marquis were the last real American passenger cars made, and some of the best ever even despite Mommy Professor's mandated eco and safety nazi crap.

    Tough, durable, reliable, and well supported with parts, the Panther Platform catered to two markets: cops and NYC town car services, who haul the business, financial and entertainment elite around. Ford always made the Town Cars well because of the belief that if they sucked it would be noticed on Wall Street and the stock value would be impacted negatively.
    , @Twinkie

    That’s why these latter day yeomen can’t argue back effectively against the liberals and the leftists. Protestant morality defines the discussion and the narrative. They have nothing to fall back on. It’s also why their clergy often become pro-immigrant or Missionizing busibodies if they follow Protestant morality to its logical conclusion. There’s a reason why Burke was a Catholic and Wilberforce an Evangelical.
     
    Interesting points. But Edmund Burke was an Anglican. He did have many Catholic family members, including his mother and sister. Possibly he was a crypto-Catholic, but publicly in any case he remained an Anglican (and a loyal Hiberno-Englishman) all this life.

    there is a pre-Modern, communal, residual Catholic earthiness
     
    As you probably know, I am down with that, as kids would say. I am a fan of Robert Nisbet's ideas.

    What I don’t understand is how Asia went from the place of scary Yellow Peril to cute and cuddly pokemons in American perception. Is it all just media?
     
    1. Reality?

    2. I don't think the general perception of East Asian was always just "Yellow Peril," and I do not think the current perception is all "cuddly pokemons" either. The sense I get from most mainstream whites about East Asians is "Hey, I think East Asians generally make pretty good immigrants, hardworking, smart, honest, and such, but I hope there aren't going to be *too* many of them."
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  43. @Twinkie

    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/
     
    Of course, you are scientifically too illiterate to understand selection bias.

    You realize people on internet dating sites are those who have been unable to find partners in the normal, traditional venues of school, work, and church. Obviously you do not. Some might argue that it's a market for the less desirable and the "left overs" (I understand it's also a market for the green card-seeking).

    The best ones are already married as they say.

    For example, Korean males who were born in the U.S. or raised here since age 13 or below have intermarriage rates with white women of 35%. That's over a third of *all* of them marrying whites. Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%? Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It's not even a contest.

    Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It’s not even a contest.

    LOL; this is called “emotion based opinion” bro. Are you sure I’m the one who is “scientifically illiterate”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    LOL; this is called “emotion based opinion” bro. Are you sure I’m the one who is “scientifically illiterate”?
     
    "LOL"? What are you, a teenage girl?

    If you play the internet version of covering your ears and crying "I don't hear you," there is no hope for you. Of course you ignored the quantitative portion of my comment:

    For example, Korean males who were born in the U.S. or raised here since age 13 or below have intermarriage rates with white women of 35%. That’s over a third of *all* of them marrying whites. Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%?
     
    So much for black male desirability, eh?

    And what is the flaw with the following statements?

    Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It’s not even a contest.
     
    Not only are Korean males marrying white females than black males are at a higher rate, they are marrying women of much higher socio-economic and educational demographic. Last time I checked, marrying a woman with higher education, status, and attractiveness (lower obesity; attractiveness correlated to IQ, etc.) is more desirable than marrying one with lower education, status, etc. and higher rates of obesity, substance abuse, etc.

    And, on a personal note, my upper crust white in-laws confided to me not long after I married my wife that they were very happy to have me as a son-in-law, but that they would have been "very uneasy" (their words) if their daughter had brought home a black man. That's a sentiment that appears to be shared by a large segment of middle class and upscale white parents.

    That's just how the cookie crumbles, I am afraid. Sorry.
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  44. @Twinkie

    the Ivy League, Stanford & MIT are familiar places to me as are Cambridge and Oxford.
     
    Define "familiar places," please. Did you graduate from one of them or not?

    meaning once a deal is made with Pao, women will have a tougher time
     
    Pao is not the first or the last gold-digging, status-driven female type. Women of good birth and virtue do just fine whether or not Pao gets her hush money.

    BTW, just so you don’t think I have “career envy,” I have a few female friends who are CEOs, executives, partners in large co’s/ corporations in CA, NYC and in Europe…
     
    Was it Gore Vidal who said that every time his friend succeeded a piece of him died?

    And, I am independently wealthy and never envy anything or anyone.
     
    I don't think anyone should be proud of inheriting or marrying into money. My wife and I hail from very good families, but we declined all parental support after college (we figured we received far more than many of our peers) and earned every cent we have. And once we were reasonably secure, I served our country's national interests and my wife took care of our children and worked on charity (she has a doctorate in a STEM field). A real lack of envy comes from achievement, not getting stuff for free.

    And, yeah, in the “creative sphere,” the gender or ethnicity you represent is not a factor for your work being selected by an organization over another artist.
     
    Yeah, okay. There is no politicization in the "creative sphere" at all.

    No “getting stuff for free”/no “inheriting money”/no “marrying into money” here. I have always been independent of family, and I agree that achievement and doing something that is personally meaningful is central to happiness. Leave it that.

    Read More
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  45. The Chinese should look to someone like Cher Wang as an example of an accomplished Chinese woman. A billionaire and practicing Christian, Wang is the new CEO of tech company HTC. Unlike Pao, Wang created things.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Yes, a great example of creativity, meritocracy and woman power, and no-one could possibly find out who her father was.
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  46. The Chinese watching the trial don’t understand that Pao is pathological way beyond the normal Tiger Mom level of craziness. This is a big part of what holds them back in the American business world, a near total cluelessness about anything not reducable to mathematics.

    And the equally clueless nerdy white men who marry them get gobsmacked when their sweet little asian brides mop the floor with them.

    Read More
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  47. @Nathan Wartooth
    I wouldn't trust anyone with those three degrees.

    Something seems fishy about getting an EE, law and a MBA degree.

    Apparently that "wowed" employers though and now they are paying for it.

    Any two of those are not uncommon. All three tells me we have someone smart enough to plow through any grad or professional school program-vet school, med school, CPA, anything besides a really rigorous physics or math Ph.D maybe-but is unlikely to be actually any good as either a design engineer or any kind of law where real money lurks.

    Call her an Academic Adventuress.

    Read More
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  48. @anowow
    I think the critiques of Materialism are much more pointed and relevant among a small group of Evangelical thinkers, but for the rank and file its a muddled critique of "wordly" living and pop culture, for the pious, or a kind of latter day Arcadianism, preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias or suvs and who live in mcmansions or their kids do, if they are lucky enough. But that's God blessed prosperity, not materialism. It's different, I guess.

    And I'm not stereotyping here. I grew up in the rural South and watched tele evangelists every Sunday morning as a kid, including the late Dr. D. James Kennedy of that glass monstrosity in Florida.

    It's part of the general confusion amongst American Protestants where two competing traditions jocky for each other. One the one hand there is a pre-Modern, communal, residual Catholic earthiness, but it is mixed, uneasily, with an otherworldly, Messianic, Universalist, Invidualistic Protestantism woth Calvinist and Pietist strains, both of which are anathema to communal Old World traditions. Basically, the Reformation made Northern Europe and America schitzo.

    That's why these latter day yeomen can't argue back effectively against the liberals and the leftists. Protestant morality defines the discussion and the narrative. They have nothing to fall back on. It's also why their clergy often become pro-immigrant or Missionizing busibodies if they follow Protestant morality to its logical conclusion. There's a reason why Burke was a Catholic and Wilberforce an Evangelical.

    These people would all be better off if they still had cults of local saints and shrines.


    What I don't understand is how Asia went from the place of scary Yellow Peril to cute and cuddly pokemons in American perception. Is it all just media?

    “preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias”

    The Crown Vic and its Panther Platform stablemates, the Town Car and Mercury Gran Marquis were the last real American passenger cars made, and some of the best ever even despite Mommy Professor’s mandated eco and safety nazi crap.

    Tough, durable, reliable, and well supported with parts, the Panther Platform catered to two markets: cops and NYC town car services, who haul the business, financial and entertainment elite around. Ford always made the Town Cars well because of the belief that if they sucked it would be noticed on Wall Street and the stock value would be impacted negatively.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The Crown Vic and its Panther Platform stablemates, the Town Car and Mercury Gran Marquis were the last real American passenger cars made, and some of the best ever even despite Mommy Professor’s mandated eco and safety nazi crap.
     
    As comfortable "saloons" the Town Car and the like were peerless (in fact, the early Japanese "luxury" models like the Toyota-Lexus saloons, were designed to replicate some of the charms). As cop cars, the Crown Vic and the like provided good size and power.

    But while they were easy to work on and very durable, the modern versions of them (with more electronics and computers) with civilian (lackadaisical) maintenance would not have been as reliable. And as much as I hate "Mommy Professor's mandated eco and..." type of stuff, the latest cars are just much more reliable, technologically advanced, and considerably safer, despite inordinately higher complexity. The material advances and the design improvements have been tremendous in the automotive industry, and account for much of the improvements in automobile fatalities rates.

    And, of course, you know the king of rugged, low maintenance, rough-use vehicle of choice in Africa, right? Toyota pickups (and lately Korean cars). They have become famous as "Technicals" in the small wars of the Dark Continent.

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  49. @Truth

    Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It’s not even a contest.
     
    LOL; this is called "emotion based opinion" bro. Are you sure I'm the one who is "scientifically illiterate"?

    LOL; this is called “emotion based opinion” bro. Are you sure I’m the one who is “scientifically illiterate”?

    “LOL”? What are you, a teenage girl?

    If you play the internet version of covering your ears and crying “I don’t hear you,” there is no hope for you. Of course you ignored the quantitative portion of my comment:

    For example, Korean males who were born in the U.S. or raised here since age 13 or below have intermarriage rates with white women of 35%. That’s over a third of *all* of them marrying whites. Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%?

    So much for black male desirability, eh?

    And what is the flaw with the following statements?

    Not only that, the two groups of men are marrying white women of vastly different desirability.

    Just visit your nearest elite university and count the Asian male-white female pairs vs. black male-white female pairs. It’s not even a contest.

    Not only are Korean males marrying white females than black males are at a higher rate, they are marrying women of much higher socio-economic and educational demographic. Last time I checked, marrying a woman with higher education, status, and attractiveness (lower obesity; attractiveness correlated to IQ, etc.) is more desirable than marrying one with lower education, status, etc. and higher rates of obesity, substance abuse, etc.

    And, on a personal note, my upper crust white in-laws confided to me not long after I married my wife that they were very happy to have me as a son-in-law, but that they would have been “very uneasy” (their words) if their daughter had brought home a black man. That’s a sentiment that appears to be shared by a large segment of middle class and upscale white parents.

    That’s just how the cookie crumbles, I am afraid. Sorry.

    Read More
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  50. @anowow
    I think the critiques of Materialism are much more pointed and relevant among a small group of Evangelical thinkers, but for the rank and file its a muddled critique of "wordly" living and pop culture, for the pious, or a kind of latter day Arcadianism, preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias or suvs and who live in mcmansions or their kids do, if they are lucky enough. But that's God blessed prosperity, not materialism. It's different, I guess.

    And I'm not stereotyping here. I grew up in the rural South and watched tele evangelists every Sunday morning as a kid, including the late Dr. D. James Kennedy of that glass monstrosity in Florida.

    It's part of the general confusion amongst American Protestants where two competing traditions jocky for each other. One the one hand there is a pre-Modern, communal, residual Catholic earthiness, but it is mixed, uneasily, with an otherworldly, Messianic, Universalist, Invidualistic Protestantism woth Calvinist and Pietist strains, both of which are anathema to communal Old World traditions. Basically, the Reformation made Northern Europe and America schitzo.

    That's why these latter day yeomen can't argue back effectively against the liberals and the leftists. Protestant morality defines the discussion and the narrative. They have nothing to fall back on. It's also why their clergy often become pro-immigrant or Missionizing busibodies if they follow Protestant morality to its logical conclusion. There's a reason why Burke was a Catholic and Wilberforce an Evangelical.

    These people would all be better off if they still had cults of local saints and shrines.


    What I don't understand is how Asia went from the place of scary Yellow Peril to cute and cuddly pokemons in American perception. Is it all just media?

    That’s why these latter day yeomen can’t argue back effectively against the liberals and the leftists. Protestant morality defines the discussion and the narrative. They have nothing to fall back on. It’s also why their clergy often become pro-immigrant or Missionizing busibodies if they follow Protestant morality to its logical conclusion. There’s a reason why Burke was a Catholic and Wilberforce an Evangelical.

    Interesting points. But Edmund Burke was an Anglican. He did have many Catholic family members, including his mother and sister. Possibly he was a crypto-Catholic, but publicly in any case he remained an Anglican (and a loyal Hiberno-Englishman) all this life.

    there is a pre-Modern, communal, residual Catholic earthiness

    As you probably know, I am down with that, as kids would say. I am a fan of Robert Nisbet’s ideas.

    What I don’t understand is how Asia went from the place of scary Yellow Peril to cute and cuddly pokemons in American perception. Is it all just media?

    1. Reality?

    2. I don’t think the general perception of East Asian was always just “Yellow Peril,” and I do not think the current perception is all “cuddly pokemons” either. The sense I get from most mainstream whites about East Asians is “Hey, I think East Asians generally make pretty good immigrants, hardworking, smart, honest, and such, but I hope there aren’t going to be *too* many of them.”

    Read More
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  51. @Former Darfur
    "preached by gluttonous Baptists who ride in crown victorias"

    The Crown Vic and its Panther Platform stablemates, the Town Car and Mercury Gran Marquis were the last real American passenger cars made, and some of the best ever even despite Mommy Professor's mandated eco and safety nazi crap.

    Tough, durable, reliable, and well supported with parts, the Panther Platform catered to two markets: cops and NYC town car services, who haul the business, financial and entertainment elite around. Ford always made the Town Cars well because of the belief that if they sucked it would be noticed on Wall Street and the stock value would be impacted negatively.

    The Crown Vic and its Panther Platform stablemates, the Town Car and Mercury Gran Marquis were the last real American passenger cars made, and some of the best ever even despite Mommy Professor’s mandated eco and safety nazi crap.

    As comfortable “saloons” the Town Car and the like were peerless (in fact, the early Japanese “luxury” models like the Toyota-Lexus saloons, were designed to replicate some of the charms). As cop cars, the Crown Vic and the like provided good size and power.

    But while they were easy to work on and very durable, the modern versions of them (with more electronics and computers) with civilian (lackadaisical) maintenance would not have been as reliable. And as much as I hate “Mommy Professor’s mandated eco and…” type of stuff, the latest cars are just much more reliable, technologically advanced, and considerably safer, despite inordinately higher complexity. The material advances and the design improvements have been tremendous in the automotive industry, and account for much of the improvements in automobile fatalities rates.

    And, of course, you know the king of rugged, low maintenance, rough-use vehicle of choice in Africa, right? Toyota pickups (and lately Korean cars). They have become famous as “Technicals” in the small wars of the Dark Continent.

    Read More
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  52. Chief, you are a PhD, or an MD, one or the other, correct?

    This is how I understand it. Maybe I got something wrong. In any event, we’ll just begin with the fact that you posted a statistic with no attribution.

    Is this how you wrote your dissertation?

    So much for black male desirability, eh?

    Again my friend, you are posting a “fact” (i’m taking what you wrote, once again, as fact, without attribution) without context whatsoever.

    Maybe all Koreans want to marry white women, and consider whites superior, as you do.

    Maybe Black men don’t want to marry white women and are happier marrying blacks.

    Maybe…Maybe…Maybee.

    Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%?

    “What, around 22%” I see you’ve researched this subject with an electron microscope.

    And what is the flaw with the following statements?

    Well, lets start with this: I posted a statistical study commissioned by a large, multinational corporation, you posted an anecdote about what you saw when you walked through the library at UCLA 3 years ago. Do I need to further explain?

    And, on a personal note, my upper crust white in-laws confided to me not long after I married my wife that they were very happy to have me as a son-in-law, but that they would have been “very uneasy” (their words) if their daughter had brought home a black man.

    Now Twinkie, you may think I’m being rude, but I’m not. I’m glad that you, Mrs. Kim, and the in-laws are happy. I truly am, and when they unveil your statue in Central Park for this, I would hope that you send me an invite, but until then, I have to be honest with you; I don’t give a shit about anyone’s approval. Some people like me, some, don’t , some women find me atrractive some don’t, that’s their right as Americans, and I don’t have an issue with it.

    If in some parallel universe your wife had rejected me for you, great, that freed her up to find the Korean Cliff Huxtable, what more could any flaxen-haired young lady want.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Is this how you wrote your dissertation?
     
    I didn't realize you were on my dissertation committee, which is odd since everyone but one person on my dissertation committee was white (all American whites except one Ukrainian; the lone nonwhite exception was Taiwanese).

    You want data citations now? Okay, for Korean males: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Look under Koreans, Men, White (spouse), USR (U.S.-raised).

    I was mistaken about the black male intermarriage rate with white females, by the way. According to the last Pew study based on 2010 Census, black males had a 24% out-marriage rate. However, that is to all non-black races. The actual rate seems to be only 8.5% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States).

    I posted a statistical study commissioned by a large, multinational corporation
     
    Yes, a study of non-married, boyfriend/girlfriend-less people looking for love on the internet. Does that strike you as representative of normal Americans let alone the desirable portion of the demographic? (Most people still meet their significant others through school, work or church/religious worship.)

    You do realize the online dating site data does not include people who are already happily married or dating, right? You know the expression, the best ones are already taken? Do you really not get the selection bias of that study?

    you posted an anecdote about what you saw when you walked through the library at UCLA 3 years ago.
     
    No. Since you struck me as "don't try to confuse me with facts" type of a person, I invited you to do a more visceral field study and go to any elite university and count the pairings. See for yourself what reality look like. And I did not attend UCLA and I do not consider UCLA elite (not that there is anything wrong with being a non-elite school).

    If in some parallel universe your wife had rejected me for you
     
    In this parallel universe, did you attend the same Ivy League alma mater that my wife and I attended? And how would you have gotten in with such poor reading comprehension and math skills? Even affirmative action can't lower the bar that much (almost all the blacks I met there were either mulattos like President Obama or Caribbean blacks).

    Maybe all Koreans want to marry white women, and consider whites superior, as you do.
     
    As I do, eh? Please find quotes of mine to that effect.
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  53. @Anonymous
    The Chinese should look to someone like Cher Wang as an example of an accomplished Chinese woman. A billionaire and practicing Christian, Wang is the new CEO of tech company HTC. Unlike Pao, Wang created things.

    Yes, a great example of creativity, meritocracy and woman power, and no-one could possibly find out who her father was.

    Read More
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  54. @Truth
    Chief, you are a PhD, or an MD, one or the other, correct?

    This is how I understand it. Maybe I got something wrong. In any event, we'll just begin with the fact that you posted a statistic with no attribution.

    Is this how you wrote your dissertation?


    So much for black male desirability, eh?
     
    Again my friend, you are posting a "fact" (i'm taking what you wrote, once again, as fact, without attribution) without context whatsoever.

    Maybe all Koreans want to marry white women, and consider whites superior, as you do.

    Maybe Black men don't want to marry white women and are happier marrying blacks.

    Maybe...Maybe...Maybee.


    Meanwhile, black male intermarriage rates with white women is, what, around 22%?
     
    "What, around 22%" I see you've researched this subject with an electron microscope.


    And what is the flaw with the following statements?

     

    Well, lets start with this: I posted a statistical study commissioned by a large, multinational corporation, you posted an anecdote about what you saw when you walked through the library at UCLA 3 years ago. Do I need to further explain?


    And, on a personal note, my upper crust white in-laws confided to me not long after I married my wife that they were very happy to have me as a son-in-law, but that they would have been “very uneasy” (their words) if their daughter had brought home a black man.
     
    Now Twinkie, you may think I'm being rude, but I'm not. I'm glad that you, Mrs. Kim, and the in-laws are happy. I truly am, and when they unveil your statue in Central Park for this, I would hope that you send me an invite, but until then, I have to be honest with you; I don't give a shit about anyone's approval. Some people like me, some, don't , some women find me atrractive some don't, that's their right as Americans, and I don't have an issue with it.

    If in some parallel universe your wife had rejected me for you, great, that freed her up to find the Korean Cliff Huxtable, what more could any flaxen-haired young lady want.

    Is this how you wrote your dissertation?

    I didn’t realize you were on my dissertation committee, which is odd since everyone but one person on my dissertation committee was white (all American whites except one Ukrainian; the lone nonwhite exception was Taiwanese).

    You want data citations now? Okay, for Korean males: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Look under Koreans, Men, White (spouse), USR (U.S.-raised).

    I was mistaken about the black male intermarriage rate with white females, by the way. According to the last Pew study based on 2010 Census, black males had a 24% out-marriage rate. However, that is to all non-black races. The actual rate seems to be only 8.5% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States).

    I posted a statistical study commissioned by a large, multinational corporation

    Yes, a study of non-married, boyfriend/girlfriend-less people looking for love on the internet. Does that strike you as representative of normal Americans let alone the desirable portion of the demographic? (Most people still meet their significant others through school, work or church/religious worship.)

    You do realize the online dating site data does not include people who are already happily married or dating, right? You know the expression, the best ones are already taken? Do you really not get the selection bias of that study?

    you posted an anecdote about what you saw when you walked through the library at UCLA 3 years ago.

    No. Since you struck me as “don’t try to confuse me with facts” type of a person, I invited you to do a more visceral field study and go to any elite university and count the pairings. See for yourself what reality look like. And I did not attend UCLA and I do not consider UCLA elite (not that there is anything wrong with being a non-elite school).

    If in some parallel universe your wife had rejected me for you

    In this parallel universe, did you attend the same Ivy League alma mater that my wife and I attended? And how would you have gotten in with such poor reading comprehension and math skills? Even affirmative action can’t lower the bar that much (almost all the blacks I met there were either mulattos like President Obama or Caribbean blacks).

    Maybe all Koreans want to marry white women, and consider whites superior, as you do.

    As I do, eh? Please find quotes of mine to that effect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    I can't help but wonder if that 34% outmarriage rate for American-born Korean males is skewed by Half-Korean men being counted in that statistic. It does seem that among American-born "Eurasians", half-Korean is one of the most common mixes - probably due to the history of American involvement in Korea for the last half-century. At any rate, due to their varying degrees of Caucasian appearances, it follows that half-Asian men would do considerably better with White women than their full-blooded cousins. And anecdotally-speaking, myself and every half-Asian male I've known or been related to has married a White woman.
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  55. Well thank you for the citation, my friend. I noticed that this is a study of people who actually GOT MARRIED.

    All Spouses: This model include all marriages that involve at least one Asian American. The benefit of this approach is that you get a complete picture of all marriages involving Asian Americans. The drawback is that since most married Asian Americans are immigrants, many of them got married in their home countries before immigrating to the U.S. — i.e., they came to the U.S. already married.

    One third of which, were anointed by white women. This does not take into effect the introverted, lifetime bachelor Koreans who spend their time playing Call of Duty, of which, I would assume, there are many. You would of course, no better than I.

    Yes, a study of non-married, boyfriend/girlfriend-less people looking for love on the internet. Does that strike you as representative of normal Americans let alone the desirable portion of the demographic?

    I’m not much of a judgement-passer, Bro, I’m a social-scientist. People meet each other in many different ways, and the internet takes an increasingly significant role in all of our lives, every year, in every way. We are increasingly busy, and workaholic types of both sexes simply do not have the social structures they once had.

    See for yourself what reality look like.

    That is difficult. You see, I live in Kuwait, and the last time I went to Arab Open University I did not see any white female, Asian male couples, but get back to me in a year or so when I take vacation.

    did you attend the same Ivy League alma mater that my wife and I attended?

    You seem quite proud of that, and I guess it’s good, however, I must say, I have known a few Ivy leaguers of all races, and I…I just haven’t been overly impressed. They have seemed to be nice, fairly intelligent people, but certainly nothing awe-inspiring, for the most part. Just hard-working and good at taking orders, that’s my impression, and it is also the impression of a few people I’ve known who attended large state schools and went to the Ivy league for graduate degrees.

    Even affirmative action can’t lower the bar that much

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    One third of which, were anointed by white women.
     
    That reeks of resentment and envy.

    This does not take into effect the introverted, lifetime bachelor Koreans who spend their time playing Call of Duty, of which, I would assume, there are many.
     

    I’m not much of a judgement-passer, Bro, I’m a social-scientist.
     
    Gee, that wasn't inconsistent at all (yes, that was sarcasm). And you are not a social scientist since you do not know basic concepts such as selection bias.

    By the way, Korean males (and Asians in general) in the United States have higher marriages rates than black males do. If anyone is being a "lifetime bachelor" and playing video games, it's more likely to be a black man, not an Asian one. Of course, maybe it's not video games but prison that's occupying the black bachelor since the black male incarceration rate is through the roof compared to the Asian male rate.

    You see, I live in Kuwait, and the last time I went to Arab Open University I did not see any white female, Asian male couples
     
    Of course, because Kuwait is where elite American whites and Asians study.

    however, I must say, I have known a few Ivy leaguers of all races, and I…I just haven’t been overly impressed.
     
    That what every single non-Ivy Leaguer with chip on his shoulder says.
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  56. @Twinkie

    Is this how you wrote your dissertation?
     
    I didn't realize you were on my dissertation committee, which is odd since everyone but one person on my dissertation committee was white (all American whites except one Ukrainian; the lone nonwhite exception was Taiwanese).

    You want data citations now? Okay, for Korean males: http://www.asian-nation.org/interracial.shtml

    Look under Koreans, Men, White (spouse), USR (U.S.-raised).

    I was mistaken about the black male intermarriage rate with white females, by the way. According to the last Pew study based on 2010 Census, black males had a 24% out-marriage rate. However, that is to all non-black races. The actual rate seems to be only 8.5% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States).

    I posted a statistical study commissioned by a large, multinational corporation
     
    Yes, a study of non-married, boyfriend/girlfriend-less people looking for love on the internet. Does that strike you as representative of normal Americans let alone the desirable portion of the demographic? (Most people still meet their significant others through school, work or church/religious worship.)

    You do realize the online dating site data does not include people who are already happily married or dating, right? You know the expression, the best ones are already taken? Do you really not get the selection bias of that study?

    you posted an anecdote about what you saw when you walked through the library at UCLA 3 years ago.
     
    No. Since you struck me as "don't try to confuse me with facts" type of a person, I invited you to do a more visceral field study and go to any elite university and count the pairings. See for yourself what reality look like. And I did not attend UCLA and I do not consider UCLA elite (not that there is anything wrong with being a non-elite school).

    If in some parallel universe your wife had rejected me for you
     
    In this parallel universe, did you attend the same Ivy League alma mater that my wife and I attended? And how would you have gotten in with such poor reading comprehension and math skills? Even affirmative action can't lower the bar that much (almost all the blacks I met there were either mulattos like President Obama or Caribbean blacks).

    Maybe all Koreans want to marry white women, and consider whites superior, as you do.
     
    As I do, eh? Please find quotes of mine to that effect.

    I can’t help but wonder if that 34% outmarriage rate for American-born Korean males is skewed by Half-Korean men being counted in that statistic. It does seem that among American-born “Eurasians”, half-Korean is one of the most common mixes – probably due to the history of American involvement in Korea for the last half-century. At any rate, due to their varying degrees of Caucasian appearances, it follows that half-Asian men would do considerably better with White women than their full-blooded cousins. And anecdotally-speaking, myself and every half-Asian male I’ve known or been related to has married a White woman.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I can’t help but wonder if that 34% outmarriage rate for American-born Korean males is skewed by Half-Korean men being counted in that statistic.
     
    Hard to say. I don't think the statistics break down partial ancestry. But I think the chance of that being affected by such a sizable number of half-Korean/half-white males is unlikely, given the relatively lower rates of intermarriage with whites for first-generation Koreans.

    As you can see from the table, rates vary significantly among different groups too. For example, Vietnamese men are much more endogamous and only intermarry with white women at 22%.

    Two possible advantages Korean males have are 1) height (Korean males are the tallest among Asians) and 2) religion (over half of Korean immigrants are Christians, overwhelmingly Protestant). Also, Korean immigrants seem to have a much more assimilative culture than, say, Chinese or Vietnamese immigrants in that the Korean second generation retains the language of their parents at a much lower rate than compared to the Chinese or Vietnamese. In other words, American-born Koreans tend to be monolingual English speakers.
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  57. Wow, long-lost brothers, commrades-in-arms, from a thousand wars ranging from the mountains of Hokkaido to encampments along the Yalu river, to the great steppes of Xiongnu getting a chance to reconnect in a positive and heartfelt moment. The Truthster is not an emotional type, but this one even choked me up a bit.

    The Steve-O-Sphere really is a beautiful place.

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  58. @Truth
    Well thank you for the citation, my friend. I noticed that this is a study of people who actually GOT MARRIED.

    All Spouses: This model include all marriages that involve at least one Asian American. The benefit of this approach is that you get a complete picture of all marriages involving Asian Americans. The drawback is that since most married Asian Americans are immigrants, many of them got married in their home countries before immigrating to the U.S. -- i.e., they came to the U.S. already married.

     

    One third of which, were anointed by white women. This does not take into effect the introverted, lifetime bachelor Koreans who spend their time playing Call of Duty, of which, I would assume, there are many. You would of course, no better than I.


    Yes, a study of non-married, boyfriend/girlfriend-less people looking for love on the internet. Does that strike you as representative of normal Americans let alone the desirable portion of the demographic?
     
    I'm not much of a judgement-passer, Bro, I'm a social-scientist. People meet each other in many different ways, and the internet takes an increasingly significant role in all of our lives, every year, in every way. We are increasingly busy, and workaholic types of both sexes simply do not have the social structures they once had.


    See for yourself what reality look like.
     
    That is difficult. You see, I live in Kuwait, and the last time I went to Arab Open University I did not see any white female, Asian male couples, but get back to me in a year or so when I take vacation.



    did you attend the same Ivy League alma mater that my wife and I attended?
     
    You seem quite proud of that, and I guess it's good, however, I must say, I have known a few Ivy leaguers of all races, and I...I just haven't been overly impressed. They have seemed to be nice, fairly intelligent people, but certainly nothing awe-inspiring, for the most part. Just hard-working and good at taking orders, that's my impression, and it is also the impression of a few people I've known who attended large state schools and went to the Ivy league for graduate degrees.



    Even affirmative action can’t lower the bar that much
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_5dP_83O7o

    One third of which, were anointed by white women.

    That reeks of resentment and envy.

    This does not take into effect the introverted, lifetime bachelor Koreans who spend their time playing Call of Duty, of which, I would assume, there are many.

    I’m not much of a judgement-passer, Bro, I’m a social-scientist.

    Gee, that wasn’t inconsistent at all (yes, that was sarcasm). And you are not a social scientist since you do not know basic concepts such as selection bias.

    By the way, Korean males (and Asians in general) in the United States have higher marriages rates than black males do. If anyone is being a “lifetime bachelor” and playing video games, it’s more likely to be a black man, not an Asian one. Of course, maybe it’s not video games but prison that’s occupying the black bachelor since the black male incarceration rate is through the roof compared to the Asian male rate.

    You see, I live in Kuwait, and the last time I went to Arab Open University I did not see any white female, Asian male couples

    Of course, because Kuwait is where elite American whites and Asians study.

    however, I must say, I have known a few Ivy leaguers of all races, and I…I just haven’t been overly impressed.

    That what every single non-Ivy Leaguer with chip on his shoulder says.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    That reeks of resentment and envy.
     
    You misunderstand so much, Mr. Anderson. I see no cause for envy, you see The Truthster has been "quasi-annointed" a few times in the past (without the rings and paperwork, of course). He just never saw it as a great source of pride...
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  59. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I can't help but wonder if that 34% outmarriage rate for American-born Korean males is skewed by Half-Korean men being counted in that statistic. It does seem that among American-born "Eurasians", half-Korean is one of the most common mixes - probably due to the history of American involvement in Korea for the last half-century. At any rate, due to their varying degrees of Caucasian appearances, it follows that half-Asian men would do considerably better with White women than their full-blooded cousins. And anecdotally-speaking, myself and every half-Asian male I've known or been related to has married a White woman.

    I can’t help but wonder if that 34% outmarriage rate for American-born Korean males is skewed by Half-Korean men being counted in that statistic.

    Hard to say. I don’t think the statistics break down partial ancestry. But I think the chance of that being affected by such a sizable number of half-Korean/half-white males is unlikely, given the relatively lower rates of intermarriage with whites for first-generation Koreans.

    As you can see from the table, rates vary significantly among different groups too. For example, Vietnamese men are much more endogamous and only intermarry with white women at 22%.

    Two possible advantages Korean males have are 1) height (Korean males are the tallest among Asians) and 2) religion (over half of Korean immigrants are Christians, overwhelmingly Protestant). Also, Korean immigrants seem to have a much more assimilative culture than, say, Chinese or Vietnamese immigrants in that the Korean second generation retains the language of their parents at a much lower rate than compared to the Chinese or Vietnamese. In other words, American-born Koreans tend to be monolingual English speakers.

    Read More
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  60. @Twinkie

    One third of which, were anointed by white women.
     
    That reeks of resentment and envy.

    This does not take into effect the introverted, lifetime bachelor Koreans who spend their time playing Call of Duty, of which, I would assume, there are many.
     

    I’m not much of a judgement-passer, Bro, I’m a social-scientist.
     
    Gee, that wasn't inconsistent at all (yes, that was sarcasm). And you are not a social scientist since you do not know basic concepts such as selection bias.

    By the way, Korean males (and Asians in general) in the United States have higher marriages rates than black males do. If anyone is being a "lifetime bachelor" and playing video games, it's more likely to be a black man, not an Asian one. Of course, maybe it's not video games but prison that's occupying the black bachelor since the black male incarceration rate is through the roof compared to the Asian male rate.

    You see, I live in Kuwait, and the last time I went to Arab Open University I did not see any white female, Asian male couples
     
    Of course, because Kuwait is where elite American whites and Asians study.

    however, I must say, I have known a few Ivy leaguers of all races, and I…I just haven’t been overly impressed.
     
    That what every single non-Ivy Leaguer with chip on his shoulder says.

    That reeks of resentment and envy.

    You misunderstand so much, Mr. Anderson. I see no cause for envy, you see The Truthster has been “quasi-annointed” a few times in the past (without the rings and paperwork, of course). He just never saw it as a great source of pride…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Any half-witted animal can fornicate with trashy females (and to be crystal clear, by "animal" I mean those men who are guided by their beastly instincts and little else).

    It's a trifle bit more difficult to win the hand of a virtuous and accomplished fair maiden, to create a lifelong partnership with her, and to prepare the next generation for the future, a task that is, alas, sadly beyond the reach of many black males: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/329432/latest-statistics-illegitimate-births-roger-clegg

    72.3 percent of non-Hispanic blacks are now born out-of-wedlock; 66.2 percent of American Indians/Alaska Natives; 53.3 percent of Hispanics; 29.1 percent of non-Hispanic whites; and 17.2 percent of Asians/Pacific Islanders.
     
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  61. @Truth

    That reeks of resentment and envy.
     
    You misunderstand so much, Mr. Anderson. I see no cause for envy, you see The Truthster has been "quasi-annointed" a few times in the past (without the rings and paperwork, of course). He just never saw it as a great source of pride...

    Any half-witted animal can fornicate with trashy females (and to be crystal clear, by “animal” I mean those men who are guided by their beastly instincts and little else).

    It’s a trifle bit more difficult to win the hand of a virtuous and accomplished fair maiden, to create a lifelong partnership with her, and to prepare the next generation for the future, a task that is, alas, sadly beyond the reach of many black males: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/329432/latest-statistics-illegitimate-births-roger-clegg

    72.3 percent of non-Hispanic blacks are now born out-of-wedlock; 66.2 percent of American Indians/Alaska Natives; 53.3 percent of Hispanics; 29.1 percent of non-Hispanic whites; and 17.2 percent of Asians/Pacific Islanders.

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  62. Any half-witted animal can fornicate with trashy females (and to be crystal clear, by “animal” I mean those men who are guided by their beastly instincts and little else).

    My friend, if every woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night is “trashy” you are a hard grader.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    My friend, if every woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night is “trashy” you are a hard grader.
     
    While the mean number of lifetime sexual partners for American women is seven, the median is only two. That means there is a small minority who have had dozens of partners at one end of the curve. I would suggest this is the most likely segment of the women who'd travel to the Middle East to "anoint" temporarily men of the darker persuasion. "Trashy" is about right, methinks.

    And, yes, I tend to hold women to high standards, especially those in my life. I expect people in my life to be humans, not animals.

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  63. @Truth

    Any half-witted animal can fornicate with trashy females (and to be crystal clear, by “animal” I mean those men who are guided by their beastly instincts and little else).
     
    My friend, if every woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night is "trashy" you are a hard grader.

    My friend, if every woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night is “trashy” you are a hard grader.

    While the mean number of lifetime sexual partners for American women is seven, the median is only two. That means there is a small minority who have had dozens of partners at one end of the curve. I would suggest this is the most likely segment of the women who’d travel to the Middle East to “anoint” temporarily men of the darker persuasion. “Trashy” is about right, methinks.

    And, yes, I tend to hold women to high standards, especially those in my life. I expect people in my life to be humans, not animals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    It depends on race, age and generation, but for white women born around 1965, when they reached their early forties the median was four and the mean about six. For those born a decade later, those averages will be five and seven by now. See Table 3 in
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf
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  64. Matthew 7:1

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  65. @Twinkie

    My friend, if every woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night is “trashy” you are a hard grader.
     
    While the mean number of lifetime sexual partners for American women is seven, the median is only two. That means there is a small minority who have had dozens of partners at one end of the curve. I would suggest this is the most likely segment of the women who'd travel to the Middle East to "anoint" temporarily men of the darker persuasion. "Trashy" is about right, methinks.

    And, yes, I tend to hold women to high standards, especially those in my life. I expect people in my life to be humans, not animals.

    It depends on race, age and generation, but for white women born around 1965, when they reached their early forties the median was four and the mean about six. For those born a decade later, those averages will be five and seven by now. See Table 3 in

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

    Read More
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