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Chetty on Why the Low Income of Black Males Proves IQ Doesn't Matter
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From the new paper by Chetty and Hendren:

The last family-level explanation we consider is the controversial hypothesis that differences in cognitive ability explain racial gaps. Although we do not have measures of ability in our data, three pieces of evidence suggest that differences in ability do not explain the persistence of black-white gaps for men. First, the prior literature (e.g., Rushton and Jensen 2005) suggests no biological reason that racial differences in cognitive ability would vary by gender. Therefore, the ability hypothesis does not explain the differences in black-white income gaps by gender.

Second, black- white gaps in test scores – which have been the basis for most prior arguments for ability differences – are substantial for both men and women. The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability (as relevant for earnings) by race, perhaps because of stereotype threat or racial biases in tests (Steele and Aronson 1995; Jencks and Phillips 1998).

There’s a lot of sleight of hand going on here that has successfully confused many people, such as the four reporters who wrote this up in the New York Times. In the NYT, you can read in big type:

Large income [race] gaps persist between men—but not women.

Actually, sizable income gaps do persist between youngish white women and youngish black women. Chetty makes this real world race gap disappear statistically by adjusting for their parent’ income back in the 1990s. (Parental income no doubt is positively correlated with average parental IQ). He’s comparing relatively more elite black women to relatively less elite white women and declaring … no income gap.

Of course, a far higher percentage of white women than black women grew up in families with higher incomes in the 1990s, as the average IQ difference between the races would predict. So in 2014-2015 there is a difference in average individual income between white women and black women, as their difference in average cognitive test scores would predict.

Keep in mind that Chetty is looking at the children’s individual income but the parents’ family (or household?) income.

Chetty’s point is that black men do worse than black women when you adjust for low parental incomes. And then he demands to know how IQ theories can explain this gender gap?

Okay, but this gender gap is a secondary question, but Chetty is encouraging his interpreters to treat as if it were The Big Question.

Third, we show below that environmental conditions during childhood have causal effects on racial disparities by studying the outcomes of boys who move between neighborhoods, rejecting the hypothesis that the gap is driven by differences in innate ability.

Uh … you can’t justify “rejecting” that X influence Z by pointing out that Y also influences Z. It as if I were to say that one reason blacks are more likely than whites to be NFL cornerbacks is because they have higher average running speed, and Chetty replies, “Another reason is because they have higher average jumping ability, so therefore I am rejecting your hypothesis that the cornerback gap is driven by differences in running speed.”

What Chetty has found is, surprise, surprise, is that black male youths raised in gang-infested black slums are more likely, all else being equal, to have low taxable incomes at age 27 to 32. This is probably due in part, among many other ills, to a lot of black males raised in gang-infested slums choosing to pursue a Life of Crime.

The Wire lifestyle, at best, generates a lot of cash income that you don’t report on your 1040 for Chetty to tabulate and more likely puts you in prison, a wheelchair, or the grave. For example, his new paper lists the following examples of the Worst Places for black males to grow up if their parental income is at the 25th percentile among all Americans (across all races):

Chicago, IL: Robert Taylor Homes/Fuller Park,
Chicago: Cook County Bronzeville,
Chicago: Cook County Garfield Park,
Chicago: Cook County Englewood
Detroit: Chandler Park, Wayne County
Cincinnati: South Fairmont, Hamilton County
Los Angeles:South Los Angeles/Watts, Los Angeles County

You’ve likely heard of some of these places, such as Watts / South Los Angeles. (“South Los Angeles” is the rebranding of “South-Central Los Angeles” due to too many gang murders and riots.)

Not surprisingly, it’s better for the future incomes of black males for them to, say, have been raised in Air Force enlisted personnel housing in North Dakota than in the Robert Taylor Homes in Chicago. Should that finding lead to “rejecting the hypothesis that the gap is driven by differences in innate ability”?

Of course not.

F. Scott Fitzgerald famously said, “The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” These aren’t even opposed ideas, they are complementary, often correlated (e.g., it’s hard to be allowed to enlist in the Air Force if your AFQT score is low), ideas, but too many people can’t deal with thinking about both.

 
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  1. It’s a full-court press in the MSM to prevent us from ‘misinterpreting’ the data.

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  2. Stop embarrassing the poor guy, Steve. Pick on somebody your own size.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Steve has to take on this guy. His entire career has been focused on questions like this.

    I have a question. My question addresses the value of Steve's work. Steve trades in the currency of ideas, but do ideas about Human Biodiversity really matter?

    I came to believe that blacks were less intelligent than whites in the mid sixties. The evidence was overwhelming once I found it. I couldn't believe that I had failed to realize that simple and obvious truth for so long. In those days there was quite a lot of rancorous disputation over the validity of IQ tests. Most of the goofy arguments against standardized tests have now evaporated. But people continue to resist the notion that races differ. That's odd surely.

    In the sixties I figure it would be about twenty years until all the noise had been silenced and the public came to accept the reality of racial differences. Obviously I was wrong - very wrong. But suppose I had been right. If the reality of black mental deficiencies had been accepted in the eighties as I had expected, would we have still have lost Detroit?
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  3. As I may have mentioned previously:

    Untouched, of course, is the fact that a plurality or a majority of black boys are raised by (single) women whom they remind of the man who abandoned them. Boys in this situation grow up unloved at best and otherwise horribly abused and neglected. The implications of this are staggering, but we’re not supposed to notice.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Do we actually know if women who have children out of wedlock in modern America actually expect substantial paternal support, and feel resentment when they don't get it?

    I feel like paternal support expectations for the underclass is mostly kicking in a hundred dollars here and there if it is available and maybe having the father's female relatives babysit sometimes, but not much more.
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  4. The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that . . .

    Is he suggesting that black women who make, say, $100k also have lower IQs than white women who make $100k? I can believe it would be somewhat lower due to affirmative action but probably mitigated as compared to the usual 1SD difference because 100k blacks are rightmore on the black bell curve compared to 100k whites on the white curve.

    Or is he more conflating high earning blacks’ earnings with all blacks’ IQs, as compared to their white counterparts?

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    • Replies: @istevefan

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability
     
    I am sure AA jobs come into play. Take for example Michelle Obama getting a job with the University of Chicago hospital (I think) as their diversity outreach coordinator. If I recall correctly, that job paid $350K per year!!!
    , @Seeker
    Also important to remember that the scarcity of high-IQ blacks changes the demographics of the high income cohort. You have very few research scientists who make a mint by spinning off their research via a private venture that they sell to Pfizer, very few brain surgeons, very few people who made their fortune by dint of an exceptional mind. The black high income sample is smaller to begin with — but, the blacks who do make it are disproportionately likely to be entertainers, hardworking small business owners who beat the odds, or the well-polished 110IQ types who settle into soft-touch highly visible employment at a university healthcare system after squeaking past the finish line at a prestigious law school.

    I’d guess that controlling for IQ and education the ways that white people earn their way into the 1% aren’t that different from the ways that blacks do. Affirmitive action and the insatiable appetite that corporations and government bureaus have for well credentialed blacks of average intelligence distorts a univariate comparison.
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  5. I think this is raising a legitimate question that you’re sidestepping. Why is this all powerful regression to the mean only acting among men and not women?

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    • Replies: @Uilleam Yr Alban
    Aside from black IQ deficits, most social pathology* is located among men, such as hyper violence etc. Blacks are twice as likely as their IQs would predict to commit violence, for example. Hispanics are as likely to commit violence as their IQs would predict, and Asians are less likely.

    The main (sole?) non-IQ source of social pathology among black women is their taste for thuggish black men, which has the compounding effect of incentivizing bad behavior among men.

    *Adaptation to pre-industrial semi-agrarian society with no institutions that ensure paternity would be just as valid as social pathology for conceptualizing this.

    , @Travis
    actually it seems the white males are not regressing to the mean while the white females are regressing to the mean , especially when they marry wealthy men and their income drops to zero when they choose to be stay at home mothers. The option of being a stay-at-home mother is not available to Black women , so they work because they are unable to marry wealthy husbands.
    , @Luke Lea
    Actually there are slight differences in the means as well as the variances of men and women, and perhaps even slightly different ones among blacks, but those aren't discussed very much. I am referring to g. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong about this.
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  6. Black women are far more likely to be a sole or primary breadwinner compared to similar white women, so look for jobs with higher income compared to the often pleasant and low stress and low pay jobs many married white women take. Control for IQ and black women likely greatly outearn all other races.

    This factor conversely tends to increase the male racial gap since white men are far more often supporting a SAHM and children and make career choices accordingly.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  7. People in the msm are desperate to show that iq either doesn’t matter or isn’t heritable so that’s how they are going to interpret his findings.

    The study says nothing about the heritability of iq since there are no iq tests involved. It doesn’t necessarily discount the impact of iq either. I think it might indicate something about how iq impacts life outcomes though. Since black women and white women can end up similarly across a number of individual outcomes (not household level), it possibly does indicate that the impact of a higher iq is not in being able to figure out your budgeting a little bit faster. It’s more of a long term decision making factor that affects people’s higher level impulse control and ability to manage their emotions. This means not spending a whole paycheck on a luxury car or having a baby with a deadbeat just because of attraction.

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  8. Sad news, the Anglo-US Zionists may have lost Peru, as its half Jewish half Swiss president resigns.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-peru-politics/peru-president-tenders-resignation-on-eve-of-impeachment-vote-sources-idUSKBN1GX27L?il=0

    He has a fascinating family that includes medical researchers, one with a Nobel Prize, an Irish-American congressman, Jean-Luc Godard, and a Prussian army officer.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Pablo_Kuczynski

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  9. @Mishra
    As I may have mentioned previously:

    Untouched, of course, is the fact that a plurality or a majority of black boys are raised by (single) women whom they remind of the man who abandoned them. Boys in this situation grow up unloved at best and otherwise horribly abused and neglected. The implications of this are staggering, but we’re not supposed to notice.
     

    Do we actually know if women who have children out of wedlock in modern America actually expect substantial paternal support, and feel resentment when they don’t get it?

    I feel like paternal support expectations for the underclass is mostly kicking in a hundred dollars here and there if it is available and maybe having the father’s female relatives babysit sometimes, but not much more.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mishra
    Well, you're talking about small amounts of money and I'm talking about large amounts of emotion. I've no idea how much money these women were expecting but I do know of the rage they feel when they learn that their man has been lying to them, cheating on them, being a 'playa' and so on.

    Whether the discoveries happen while the woman is pregnant or after her child is born, the pain is real and can last a very long time--long after the man is gone.

    But there's this reminder or two he's left behind, who, as time goes by, begins to look like him, talk like him, and--unfortunately--act like him.

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  10. Smart rich white girls marry rich men and then they stay home with their kids or work part time on a lark. Smart rich black girls usually do none of those things. They marry rich less often. Because their SMV is lower. And so they prioritize their (affirmative action boosted) career and income. Mystery solved.

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  11. There is no way some major researcher is going to come out and say the racial gap is primarily the result of difference in innate talent between those groups. Zero. There is every reason why the major researcher would come out and say the gender gap refutes the argument against innate talent.

    On the flip side, the evidence also blows a hole in “structural racism” and “color prejudice” as fueling the inequalities. Its not as if Black women are so beloved and Black men are so stigmatized, so Whitey racist hate vibrations don’t really explain it either.

    Personally, I suspect it is structural gynarchy, which is particularly destructive to male persons of color, and to which they are particularly vulnerable. For example, the innocent victims of the Title IX campus sex police.

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  12. @Lot
    Do we actually know if women who have children out of wedlock in modern America actually expect substantial paternal support, and feel resentment when they don't get it?

    I feel like paternal support expectations for the underclass is mostly kicking in a hundred dollars here and there if it is available and maybe having the father's female relatives babysit sometimes, but not much more.

    Well, you’re talking about small amounts of money and I’m talking about large amounts of emotion. I’ve no idea how much money these women were expecting but I do know of the rage they feel when they learn that their man has been lying to them, cheating on them, being a ‘playa’ and so on.

    Whether the discoveries happen while the woman is pregnant or after her child is born, the pain is real and can last a very long time–long after the man is gone.

    But there’s this reminder or two he’s left behind, who, as time goes by, begins to look like him, talk like him, and–unfortunately–act like him.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.
    , @Marty
    Steve's right, young black men don't really display emotional wounds from their putatively "distant" mothers.
    , @danand
    I think many, if not most, American black (but not limited to) mothers actually take some pride in their boys having the ability to attain the high status of "being a ‘playa’". That's what makes for a real man. Icing is that that player has the ability to shower "gifts" around, but it's not mandatory, or even the priority.

    As for black women doing well it may be as simple as who would you rather hire, when you're legislatively "forced" to make hiring decisions. It's kind of a lesser of evils choice, and as fewer and fewer jobs require brute force & physical risk taking, that choice becomes easier. Just think of it in terms of prioritizing which unknown stranger, based on race, gender, or religious persuasion you'd want coming into your home to measure the drapes?
    , @Redneck farmer
    A black lady described it thusly," We make our daughters act like men, and coddle our boys. Then we wonder why things are the way they are."
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  13. @Mishra
    Well, you're talking about small amounts of money and I'm talking about large amounts of emotion. I've no idea how much money these women were expecting but I do know of the rage they feel when they learn that their man has been lying to them, cheating on them, being a 'playa' and so on.

    Whether the discoveries happen while the woman is pregnant or after her child is born, the pain is real and can last a very long time--long after the man is gone.

    But there's this reminder or two he's left behind, who, as time goes by, begins to look like him, talk like him, and--unfortunately--act like him.

    My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.

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    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    No that's only after a son is blown away by the po-lice.

    You're nobody, until somebody, kills you.
    - Notorious B.I.G., 'You're Nobody'
     
    , @Mishra
    Hard for any of us to do more than generalize. I guess it depends on what you've seen. The 'tell' here would be: do black women think more highly of their sons than they do of their daughters? My experience says no, and with a vengeance.

    Comparing with white people may be misleading, because it's well established that black people think very highly of themselves. But even that I would argue, because it's clear to me that this is compensation, and not hard to understand.
    , @FPD72
    During 1978-1981, while I was in grad school, I was the director of a half-way house for juvenile delinquents. Just your average armed robbers, car thieves, and drug dealers. More than half of the boys were black. Two observations that may be relevant:

    Out of sixty some odd boys who came through the program, only two came from families in which the biological father was present. All of the black kids came from fatherless homes.

    You’ve never seen such an accumulation of mamas boys in your life. All of the black kids made great declarations of love and devotion for their mamas, and the mamas gave every indication that they doted on their sons. The case workers with whom I met indicated that this was the norm and that in their experience black mamas treated their sons better than their daughters.
    , @MaMu1977
    "My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers."

    Caveats, as in most human interactions, do apply.

    Does the mother hold the father in high regard?
    Is the son a sole boy (or, for that matter, an only child?)
    Is the son obedient?
    Is the son a high earner (legal or illegal)?
    Is the presence of the son of net social benefit?

    Then yes, momma will forgive her son anything. If they live in a high crime environment and the son has "clout", then she loves him as much as the sun. If they live in a low crime area and he has a respected job, ditto. You aren't going to visit a ghetto and hear low class black women bragging about their plumber/a.c. repairmen/bus driver sons. If those women have multiple sons, the "good ones" get a token mention and the criminals receive paragraphs of praise/scorn.

    That being said, on this very page, posters were befuddled about the reaction to a black male athlete picking a school that "his momma" didn't want him to attend (yes, she embarrassed him by walking out in front of the cameras.) For a black child with a black mother, emotional responses as that are far from rare.
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  14. Incredible, he wipes away testing due to an analysis of this data in one study. What would be an analogous situation; saying that the laws of physics were wrong because of the bridge collapse in Miami?

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  15. @Guy De Champlagne
    I think this is raising a legitimate question that you're sidestepping. Why is this all powerful regression to the mean only acting among men and not women?

    Aside from black IQ deficits, most social pathology* is located among men, such as hyper violence etc. Blacks are twice as likely as their IQs would predict to commit violence, for example. Hispanics are as likely to commit violence as their IQs would predict, and Asians are less likely.

    The main (sole?) non-IQ source of social pathology among black women is their taste for thuggish black men, which has the compounding effect of incentivizing bad behavior among men.

    *Adaptation to pre-industrial semi-agrarian society with no institutions that ensure paternity would be just as valid as social pathology for conceptualizing this.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    At the same time, the homicide rate for black women is higher than that of white men.
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  16. @Mishra
    Well, you're talking about small amounts of money and I'm talking about large amounts of emotion. I've no idea how much money these women were expecting but I do know of the rage they feel when they learn that their man has been lying to them, cheating on them, being a 'playa' and so on.

    Whether the discoveries happen while the woman is pregnant or after her child is born, the pain is real and can last a very long time--long after the man is gone.

    But there's this reminder or two he's left behind, who, as time goes by, begins to look like him, talk like him, and--unfortunately--act like him.

    Steve’s right, young black men don’t really display emotional wounds from their putatively “distant” mothers.

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  17. It really is perplexing that a researcher would claim, based on a study not looking at intelligence, that income was a better gauge of intelligence than testing. If he had any integrity he would say, “our data suggests that testing does not predict income,” not that testing does not predict intelligence. Akin to iSteve’s example, it would be like doing a study on running speed, and saying “people who have figured out how to run fast must be smart, so testing is not a good predictor of smartness.”

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    • Replies: @Joe, Averaged
    Yikes, I’ve made the same mistake again, that Steve is no doubt tired of correcting: testing does predict income, because it is less than that for whites. It’s just the relationship is the same. How dishonest.
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  18. @Mishra
    Well, you're talking about small amounts of money and I'm talking about large amounts of emotion. I've no idea how much money these women were expecting but I do know of the rage they feel when they learn that their man has been lying to them, cheating on them, being a 'playa' and so on.

    Whether the discoveries happen while the woman is pregnant or after her child is born, the pain is real and can last a very long time--long after the man is gone.

    But there's this reminder or two he's left behind, who, as time goes by, begins to look like him, talk like him, and--unfortunately--act like him.

    I think many, if not most, American black (but not limited to) mothers actually take some pride in their boys having the ability to attain the high status of “being a ‘playa’”. That’s what makes for a real man. Icing is that that player has the ability to shower “gifts” around, but it’s not mandatory, or even the priority.

    As for black women doing well it may be as simple as who would you rather hire, when you’re legislatively “forced” to make hiring decisions. It’s kind of a lesser of evils choice, and as fewer and fewer jobs require brute force & physical risk taking, that choice becomes easier. Just think of it in terms of prioritizing which unknown stranger, based on race, gender, or religious persuasion you’d want coming into your home to measure the drapes?

    Read More
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  19. @Joe, Averaged
    It really is perplexing that a researcher would claim, based on a study not looking at intelligence, that income was a better gauge of intelligence than testing. If he had any integrity he would say, "our data suggests that testing does not predict income," not that testing does not predict intelligence. Akin to iSteve's example, it would be like doing a study on running speed, and saying "people who have figured out how to run fast must be smart, so testing is not a good predictor of smartness."

    Yikes, I’ve made the same mistake again, that Steve is no doubt tired of correcting: testing does predict income, because it is less than that for whites. It’s just the relationship is the same. How dishonest.

    Read More
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  20. @Guy De Champlagne
    I think this is raising a legitimate question that you're sidestepping. Why is this all powerful regression to the mean only acting among men and not women?

    actually it seems the white males are not regressing to the mean while the white females are regressing to the mean , especially when they marry wealthy men and their income drops to zero when they choose to be stay at home mothers. The option of being a stay-at-home mother is not available to Black women , so they work because they are unable to marry wealthy husbands.

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  21. Chetty makes this real world race gap disappear statistically by adjusting for their parent’ income back in the 1990s.

    Nothing wrong with that. If environmental variables can explain all variance in data it means that race does not explain any fraction of variance.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    That's like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.
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  22. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.

    No that’s only after a son is blown away by the po-lice.

    You’re nobody, until somebody, kills you.
    - Notorious B.I.G., ‘You’re Nobody’

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    https://spectator.org/what-26-of-27-mass-shooters-shared-in-common/
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  23. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.

    Hard for any of us to do more than generalize. I guess it depends on what you’ve seen. The ‘tell’ here would be: do black women think more highly of their sons than they do of their daughters? My experience says no, and with a vengeance.

    Comparing with white people may be misleading, because it’s well established that black people think very highly of themselves. But even that I would argue, because it’s clear to me that this is compensation, and not hard to understand.

    Read More
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  24. @Mishra
    Well, you're talking about small amounts of money and I'm talking about large amounts of emotion. I've no idea how much money these women were expecting but I do know of the rage they feel when they learn that their man has been lying to them, cheating on them, being a 'playa' and so on.

    Whether the discoveries happen while the woman is pregnant or after her child is born, the pain is real and can last a very long time--long after the man is gone.

    But there's this reminder or two he's left behind, who, as time goes by, begins to look like him, talk like him, and--unfortunately--act like him.

    A black lady described it thusly,” We make our daughters act like men, and coddle our boys. Then we wonder why things are the way they are.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    She may be right, or it could also be the reversion to the gender roles of the African jungle and savannah: the women work while the men laze about, drink, fight, occasionally hunt, and more occasionally impregnate the women. Or maybe both descriptions are really the same thing.

    It's sad the gradual Christianizing, Westernizing and modernizing of the African population in America that took place place over centuries has been unwound with a single generation of welfare swill. It's even sadder that the welfare-financed jungle norms are now spilling over even to people who have no jungle history.
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  25. @Uilleam Yr Alban

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that . . .
     
    Is he suggesting that black women who make, say, $100k also have lower IQs than white women who make $100k? I can believe it would be somewhat lower due to affirmative action but probably mitigated as compared to the usual 1SD difference because 100k blacks are rightmore on the black bell curve compared to 100k whites on the white curve.

    Or is he more conflating high earning blacks’ earnings with all blacks’ IQs, as compared to their white counterparts?

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability

    I am sure AA jobs come into play. Take for example Michelle Obama getting a job with the University of Chicago hospital (I think) as their diversity outreach coordinator. If I recall correctly, that job paid $350K per year!!!

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    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    She was being paid something like $120K per year before Barack got elected to US Senate, then instantly got a raise to $310K per year afterwards. Once he became POTUS and she moved to DC the position was abolished. So a 190K raise for 120K job that wasn't needed anyway.
    , @Curle

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability
     
    Or that reasoning related skills are less valued generally when employing women as compared to men. And, that the mass presence of childish-minded/envious/bitter/lazy/greedy women in the workplace generally has made male reasoning skill a counterbalancing priority and has inflated the value of that skill set among men as compared to women.
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  26. Chetty dismisses the “cognitive ability” explanation mainly on the basis of his result that unlike black men, black women from high income families achieve income comparable to their white counterparts. But he is using family income for parents and individual income for the children; and his paper also shows a very substantial marriage rate difference between whites and blacks (across all parental income ranges). Could this not muddy his conclusion? A married woman is more likely to drop out of (or reduce her participation in) the labor market and rely on her partner’s income; consequently, her individual income would be zero or lower. Therefore, given the higher marriage rates of whites this effect would lower the average individual income of white women and make Chetty’s broad result invalid.

    The IRS data may include information about employment status or hours worked etc. (or it may be possible to divine this information by some massage). So, it may be possible to control for this effect. Perhaps, Chetty should open source his data and let others try this :)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Travis
    good points , which Chetty certainly understands but chooses to hide.

    https://twitter.com/pnin1957/status/975833578213867521

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  27. @utu

    Chetty makes this real world race gap disappear statistically by adjusting for their parent’ income back in the 1990s.
     
    Nothing wrong with that. If environmental variables can explain all variance in data it means that race does not explain any fraction of variance.

    That’s like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    No, it is not the same. So what is "adjusting for their parent’ income" ? Adjusting is not scaling the income by any number. Adjusting is comparing apples and apples defined as parents' income. Then there is no difference between B and W women. The only problem is that the environment variable x="parents' income" is probably correlated with genes.
    , @bartok
    Chetty is just following Diamond and Gould, making big bucks and winning renown with absolutely laughable statistical 'reasoning' that is manna for the faithful. The faith in racial equality in this country is the heir to mainline Christianity. As Moldbug argued, this fanatical sect of Puritans/Jews is the dominant faith tribe of the Western world. They have 50-60% of the population and 100% of the institutions.

    Ask 'em, they'll recite their racial-equality catechism on demand.
    , @Anonymous

    That’s like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.
     
    That's only true if you assume that:

    1. Parental income for blacks is due to high IQ (to the same degree and magnitude as with whites).

    2. Controlling for parents' average IQ, the IQ of black offspring of high IQ parents regresses on average the same number of points as that for white offspring.

    3. Individual income for all children of either race is on average correlated equally well with IQ across races.

    In other words: IQ determines income, period, in the same way that speed determines a race result, period.

    Other explanations might rely on exceptional heritable personality traits other than IQ or on heritable creative talents, with the same 1, 2, 3 as above.
    , @william munny
    Deion Sanders on Penn State white db Troy Apke's 4.35 40 time at the combine:

    Alright he can ruunnn.
    Why are you surprised Deion?
    Oh you know why I'm surprised I can't say it on TV but he can run run.... You don't see that much let's call it what it is.... I'm gonna go hug him.


    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh5CG5KYIjnE6YT273
    , @Mr. Anon
    60% of the time, it works everytime.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M
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  28. @Guy De Champlagne
    I think this is raising a legitimate question that you're sidestepping. Why is this all powerful regression to the mean only acting among men and not women?

    Actually there are slight differences in the means as well as the variances of men and women, and perhaps even slightly different ones among blacks, but those aren’t discussed very much. I am referring to g. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong about this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whitey Whiteman III
    When not sticking to the usual across the board 15 points as 1 STD, I have seen White men as high as 16-17. Likewise, I have seen blacks mentioned as low as 12. But, like you said, it is relatively rare to see this discussed.
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  29. It is interesting to see them reject single cause explanations (e.g. racial differences in IQ) as insufficient to explain all of the facts then attempt to use that to claim those factors don’t matter at all or don’t even exist.

    I really don’t think Chetty and his team are that dumb in reality. I would love to be able to see inside their heads. I bet they feel they are “fighting the good fight” in the best SJW tradition.

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  30. @Ale_Vine
    Chetty dismisses the "cognitive ability" explanation mainly on the basis of his result that unlike black men, black women from high income families achieve income comparable to their white counterparts. But he is using family income for parents and individual income for the children; and his paper also shows a very substantial marriage rate difference between whites and blacks (across all parental income ranges). Could this not muddy his conclusion? A married woman is more likely to drop out of (or reduce her participation in) the labor market and rely on her partner's income; consequently, her individual income would be zero or lower. Therefore, given the higher marriage rates of whites this effect would lower the average individual income of white women and make Chetty's broad result invalid.

    The IRS data may include information about employment status or hours worked etc. (or it may be possible to divine this information by some massage). So, it may be possible to control for this effect. Perhaps, Chetty should open source his data and let others try this :)

    good points , which Chetty certainly understands but chooses to hide.

    Read More
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  31. @istevefan

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability
     
    I am sure AA jobs come into play. Take for example Michelle Obama getting a job with the University of Chicago hospital (I think) as their diversity outreach coordinator. If I recall correctly, that job paid $350K per year!!!

    She was being paid something like $120K per year before Barack got elected to US Senate, then instantly got a raise to $310K per year afterwards. Once he became POTUS and she moved to DC the position was abolished. So a 190K raise for 120K job that wasn’t needed anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    That's correct. In reality, Michelle's salary was a laundered payoff to her husband for doing what his entire political career was based on: shifting undesirable blacks away from places and institutions coveted by the Left elite, in this case, the University hospital. Barack brought this game to the federal level with Section 8, AFFH, the Shaming of Ferguson, etc.
    , @Travis
    does the First Lady get paid a salary ? Would she appear to have zero individual income during her 8 years living at taxpayer expense in the White house ? According to Chetty , Mrs. Obama regressed badly when her husband was elected President, as her income fell to zero.
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  32. @Steve Sailer
    That's like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    No, it is not the same. So what is “adjusting for their parent’ income” ? Adjusting is not scaling the income by any number. Adjusting is comparing apples and apples defined as parents’ income. Then there is no difference between B and W women. The only problem is that the environment variable x=”parents’ income” is probably correlated with genes.

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    • Replies: @utu
    SAT after being adjusted for parents' income does not make differences between B and W scores go away. Since according to Chetty B and W women income difference practically vanishes when adjusted for parent's income one may conclude that parent's income is more important than SAT and SAT is not as strong determinant of the future income as is parents' income.
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  33. So let’s lay the cards on the table.

    Chetty’s “finding” from the study (in quotes because this was not a hypothesis he was testing) is that black females with lower test scores regress at the same rate of white women with higher test scores. This gets twisted into the old question about why blacks at a certain income level have lower test scores than whites. (Note that, as Steve has pointed out, what he could only *really* postulate is that black women would have regressed more than white women if they had lower intelligence, which is a different question. So I don’t even know if he has data to support his claim that test scores are lower for these groups. In fact, the lower percentage of blacks at higher income levels is predicted by the test scores!)

    Nonetheless, his conclusion is that tests don’t measure intelligence. Other plausible conclusions mentioned here include affirmative action (that was the goal of affirmative action, right? placing people in jobs with lower test scores?); or the higher marriage rate or household income of white women (a thesis he could indeed test with his data, but chose not to). It seems the last two are more parsimonious because they don’t assume anything about IQ ranges within jobs, for example.

    So I would propose this to add — since jobs and professions have IQ ranges (there is a great chart out there that gives the ranges) — perhaps black women occupy the lower ranges for the same jobs?

    One thing is for certain — if it had been black women with the same income with higher test scores, it would have been proof of racism!

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  34. @Steve Sailer
    That's like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    Chetty is just following Diamond and Gould, making big bucks and winning renown with absolutely laughable statistical ‘reasoning’ that is manna for the faithful. The faith in racial equality in this country is the heir to mainline Christianity. As Moldbug argued, this fanatical sect of Puritans/Jews is the dominant faith tribe of the Western world. They have 50-60% of the population and 100% of the institutions.

    Ask ‘em, they’ll recite their racial-equality catechism on demand.

    Read More
    • Agree: Almost Missouri
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  35. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    IQ and SES are correlated, but is there data that splits this up by race? My hypothesis would be that, controlled for income, blacks have lower IQ than whites. I’m ready to be proven wrong, but my hunch is that more blacks get rich via creative careers, athletics, personality-oriented careers like sales, corrupt and scammy careers, niche marketing businesses, and so on. Whites would be more on the management, law, medicine, tech, entrepreneurialism, and so on side.

    This IQ would be lower, and children’s IQ would regress from a lower starting point to a lower mean. Success and income would reflect that for songs. You don’t need to bring gang activity into the equation to explain black guys.

    So it really is the women. Why are the daughters of well-off black parents doing so well? That really is the mystery here. Is it a problem with the original data, individual vs. household with intra racial marriage differences? Is it affirmative action, the desperation to hire those rare non-ghetto acting, reduced shoulder-chipping black chicks? Do we know the race of spouses? Do we know non-married cohabitation patterns? Because I do think this is a case of lower IQ black women making more than higher IQ white women, controlling for high parental income.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe, Averaged
    The daughters of well-off black parents aren't "doing so well." They are just regressing at the same rate as white daughters.

    My new pet theory is that jobs (and income) represent a range of IQs. I bet there is clustering within the range. (Aside from the obvious marriage and household income.)
    , @Travis
    the daughters of well-off black parents are doing poorly compared to the white daughters when you examine household income. Chetty is using deception to hide reality. His own data indicates no difference between the household income of the white boys and white girls from wealthy parents. The Black daughters of wealthy parents are less likely to be married and more likely to be single mothers barely surviving in the middle class, while the white women are able to stay home with the kids, because they have husbands support in their upper middle class lifestyle. According to the Chetty logic a women working part time earning $30,000 with a husband earning $250,000 is equivalent to a Black women earning $30,000 who has a husband earning $40,000.
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  36. @Anon
    IQ and SES are correlated, but is there data that splits this up by race? My hypothesis would be that, controlled for income, blacks have lower IQ than whites. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but my hunch is that more blacks get rich via creative careers, athletics, personality-oriented careers like sales, corrupt and scammy careers, niche marketing businesses, and so on. Whites would be more on the management, law, medicine, tech, entrepreneurialism, and so on side.

    This IQ would be lower, and children's IQ would regress from a lower starting point to a lower mean. Success and income would reflect that for songs. You don't need to bring gang activity into the equation to explain black guys.

    So it really is the women. Why are the daughters of well-off black parents doing so well? That really is the mystery here. Is it a problem with the original data, individual vs. household with intra racial marriage differences? Is it affirmative action, the desperation to hire those rare non-ghetto acting, reduced shoulder-chipping black chicks? Do we know the race of spouses? Do we know non-married cohabitation patterns? Because I do think this is a case of lower IQ black women making more than higher IQ white women, controlling for high parental income.

    The daughters of well-off black parents aren’t “doing so well.” They are just regressing at the same rate as white daughters.

    My new pet theory is that jobs (and income) represent a range of IQs. I bet there is clustering within the range. (Aside from the obvious marriage and household income.)

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  37. @BenKenobi
    No that's only after a son is blown away by the po-lice.

    You're nobody, until somebody, kills you.
    - Notorious B.I.G., 'You're Nobody'
     
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  38. Anonymous[487] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    That's like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    That’s like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    That’s only true if you assume that:

    1. Parental income for blacks is due to high IQ (to the same degree and magnitude as with whites).

    2. Controlling for parents’ average IQ, the IQ of black offspring of high IQ parents regresses on average the same number of points as that for white offspring.

    3. Individual income for all children of either race is on average correlated equally well with IQ across races.

    In other words: IQ determines income, period, in the same way that speed determines a race result, period.

    Other explanations might rely on exceptional heritable personality traits other than IQ or on heritable creative talents, with the same 1, 2, 3 as above.

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  39. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.

    During 1978-1981, while I was in grad school, I was the director of a half-way house for juvenile delinquents. Just your average armed robbers, car thieves, and drug dealers. More than half of the boys were black. Two observations that may be relevant:

    Out of sixty some odd boys who came through the program, only two came from families in which the biological father was present. All of the black kids came from fatherless homes.

    You’ve never seen such an accumulation of mamas boys in your life. All of the black kids made great declarations of love and devotion for their mamas, and the mamas gave every indication that they doted on their sons. The case workers with whom I met indicated that this was the norm and that in their experience black mamas treated their sons better than their daughters.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Arabs are the same way, albeit less criminal.

    But then, Dad is present if little Daoud steps out of line. The boy will get a good camelwhipping.

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  40. It’s weird that Chetty mentions that racism is the cause but then mentions that blacks who grow up in white neighborhoods experience better outcomes.

    Why wouldn’t blacks who grow up in white neighborhoods experience more racism; being around actual racists (whites)? How do blacks who grow up in all black neighborhoods experience racism (no whites around)?

    Did this occur to anyone else?

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    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    It's Magic Dirt! It can do anything!
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  41. @Redneck farmer
    A black lady described it thusly," We make our daughters act like men, and coddle our boys. Then we wonder why things are the way they are."

    She may be right, or it could also be the reversion to the gender roles of the African jungle and savannah: the women work while the men laze about, drink, fight, occasionally hunt, and more occasionally impregnate the women. Or maybe both descriptions are really the same thing.

    It’s sad the gradual Christianizing, Westernizing and modernizing of the African population in America that took place place over centuries has been unwound with a single generation of welfare swill. It’s even sadder that the welfare-financed jungle norms are now spilling over even to people who have no jungle history.

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  42. Is there anyone in the mainstream media discussing these results accurately?

    Or are they all too stupid? Or deceitful (being generous)?

    Are people really reading this and believing, contrary to everything they know about the world, that all black women and white women in this country have the same incomes? If so, can we get rid of affirmative action yet?

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  43. @Unladen Swallow
    She was being paid something like $120K per year before Barack got elected to US Senate, then instantly got a raise to $310K per year afterwards. Once he became POTUS and she moved to DC the position was abolished. So a 190K raise for 120K job that wasn't needed anyway.

    That’s correct. In reality, Michelle’s salary was a laundered payoff to her husband for doing what his entire political career was based on: shifting undesirable blacks away from places and institutions coveted by the Left elite, in this case, the University hospital. Barack brought this game to the federal level with Section 8, AFFH, the Shaming of Ferguson, etc.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
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  44. @istevefan

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability
     
    I am sure AA jobs come into play. Take for example Michelle Obama getting a job with the University of Chicago hospital (I think) as their diversity outreach coordinator. If I recall correctly, that job paid $350K per year!!!

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that tests do not accurately measure differences in ability

    Or that reasoning related skills are less valued generally when employing women as compared to men. And, that the mass presence of childish-minded/envious/bitter/lazy/greedy women in the workplace generally has made male reasoning skill a counterbalancing priority and has inflated the value of that skill set among men as compared to women.

    Read More
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  45. @Luke Lea
    Actually there are slight differences in the means as well as the variances of men and women, and perhaps even slightly different ones among blacks, but those aren't discussed very much. I am referring to g. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong about this.

    When not sticking to the usual across the board 15 points as 1 STD, I have seen White men as high as 16-17. Likewise, I have seen blacks mentioned as low as 12. But, like you said, it is relatively rare to see this discussed.

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  46. @Steve Sailer
    That's like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    Deion Sanders on Penn State white db Troy Apke’s 4.35 40 time at the combine:

    Alright he can ruunnn.
    Why are you surprised Deion?
    Oh you know why I’m surprised I can’t say it on TV but he can run run…. You don’t see that much let’s call it what it is…. I’m gonna go hug him.

    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh5CG5KYIjnE6YT273

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  47. @Uilleam Yr Alban
    Aside from black IQ deficits, most social pathology* is located among men, such as hyper violence etc. Blacks are twice as likely as their IQs would predict to commit violence, for example. Hispanics are as likely to commit violence as their IQs would predict, and Asians are less likely.

    The main (sole?) non-IQ source of social pathology among black women is their taste for thuggish black men, which has the compounding effect of incentivizing bad behavior among men.

    *Adaptation to pre-industrial semi-agrarian society with no institutions that ensure paternity would be just as valid as social pathology for conceptualizing this.

    At the same time, the homicide rate for black women is higher than that of white men.

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    • Replies: @Forbes
    Homicide rate?--as a perpetrator or victim?
    , @Truth
    Nice link.
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  48. @Steve Sailer
    That's like saying whites are as good at the 100 meter dash as blacks as long as you adjust for running speed.

    60% of the time, it works everytime.

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  49. @Uilleam Yr Alban

    The fact that black women have incomes and wage rates comparable to white women conditional on parental income despite having much lower test scores suggests that . . .
     
    Is he suggesting that black women who make, say, $100k also have lower IQs than white women who make $100k? I can believe it would be somewhat lower due to affirmative action but probably mitigated as compared to the usual 1SD difference because 100k blacks are rightmore on the black bell curve compared to 100k whites on the white curve.

    Or is he more conflating high earning blacks’ earnings with all blacks’ IQs, as compared to their white counterparts?

    Also important to remember that the scarcity of high-IQ blacks changes the demographics of the high income cohort. You have very few research scientists who make a mint by spinning off their research via a private venture that they sell to Pfizer, very few brain surgeons, very few people who made their fortune by dint of an exceptional mind. The black high income sample is smaller to begin with — but, the blacks who do make it are disproportionately likely to be entertainers, hardworking small business owners who beat the odds, or the well-polished 110IQ types who settle into soft-touch highly visible employment at a university healthcare system after squeaking past the finish line at a prestigious law school.

    I’d guess that controlling for IQ and education the ways that white people earn their way into the 1% aren’t that different from the ways that blacks do. Affirmitive action and the insatiable appetite that corporations and government bureaus have for well credentialed blacks of average intelligence distorts a univariate comparison.

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  50. @Unladen Swallow
    She was being paid something like $120K per year before Barack got elected to US Senate, then instantly got a raise to $310K per year afterwards. Once he became POTUS and she moved to DC the position was abolished. So a 190K raise for 120K job that wasn't needed anyway.

    does the First Lady get paid a salary ? Would she appear to have zero individual income during her 8 years living at taxpayer expense in the White house ? According to Chetty , Mrs. Obama regressed badly when her husband was elected President, as her income fell to zero.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    She had a staff of 26 to help her cope with no income.
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  51. @Anon
    IQ and SES are correlated, but is there data that splits this up by race? My hypothesis would be that, controlled for income, blacks have lower IQ than whites. I'm ready to be proven wrong, but my hunch is that more blacks get rich via creative careers, athletics, personality-oriented careers like sales, corrupt and scammy careers, niche marketing businesses, and so on. Whites would be more on the management, law, medicine, tech, entrepreneurialism, and so on side.

    This IQ would be lower, and children's IQ would regress from a lower starting point to a lower mean. Success and income would reflect that for songs. You don't need to bring gang activity into the equation to explain black guys.

    So it really is the women. Why are the daughters of well-off black parents doing so well? That really is the mystery here. Is it a problem with the original data, individual vs. household with intra racial marriage differences? Is it affirmative action, the desperation to hire those rare non-ghetto acting, reduced shoulder-chipping black chicks? Do we know the race of spouses? Do we know non-married cohabitation patterns? Because I do think this is a case of lower IQ black women making more than higher IQ white women, controlling for high parental income.

    the daughters of well-off black parents are doing poorly compared to the white daughters when you examine household income. Chetty is using deception to hide reality. His own data indicates no difference between the household income of the white boys and white girls from wealthy parents. The Black daughters of wealthy parents are less likely to be married and more likely to be single mothers barely surviving in the middle class, while the white women are able to stay home with the kids, because they have husbands support in their upper middle class lifestyle. According to the Chetty logic a women working part time earning $30,000 with a husband earning $250,000 is equivalent to a Black women earning $30,000 who has a husband earning $40,000.

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  52. One thing you are not mentioning Steve is that a lot (probably most) AA females work in jobs where cognitive ability is technically required but not asked for in reality: government jobs. One of the businesses I own provides a back end function to the state of CA. We deal with people who are mostly female AA and they are in no way qualified to be performing the functions they are doing. They are paid well. There are millions of people in this category.

    We have zero contact with AA males in these positions.

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  53. @Harry Baldwin
    At the same time, the homicide rate for black women is higher than that of white men.

    Homicide rate?–as a perpetrator or victim?

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  54. Steve Sailer’s Taki’s article about Chetty begins with these words:

    “Extensive Data Shows Punishing Reach of Racism for Black Boys,” blared the headline in Monday’s New York Times, announcing the latest massive study from Stanford economist Raj Chetty. The Times tweeted:

    Black men raised in the top 1 percent—by millionaires—were as likely to be incarcerated as white men raised in households earning about $36,000.

    In reply, Charles Murray laughed:

    “An analysis destined for the unintended-consequences-of-publicizing-technically-accurate-data hall of fame.”

    And here’s my question:

    Charles Murray’s humor seems to be a tad black here, no? – Or is this thought already raciss?

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  55. @Luke Lea
    Stop embarrassing the poor guy, Steve. Pick on somebody your own size.

    Steve has to take on this guy. His entire career has been focused on questions like this.

    I have a question. My question addresses the value of Steve’s work. Steve trades in the currency of ideas, but do ideas about Human Biodiversity really matter?

    I came to believe that blacks were less intelligent than whites in the mid sixties. The evidence was overwhelming once I found it. I couldn’t believe that I had failed to realize that simple and obvious truth for so long. In those days there was quite a lot of rancorous disputation over the validity of IQ tests. Most of the goofy arguments against standardized tests have now evaporated. But people continue to resist the notion that races differ. That’s odd surely.

    In the sixties I figure it would be about twenty years until all the noise had been silenced and the public came to accept the reality of racial differences. Obviously I was wrong – very wrong. But suppose I had been right. If the reality of black mental deficiencies had been accepted in the eighties as I had expected, would we have still have lost Detroit?

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  56. @Harry Baldwin
    At the same time, the homicide rate for black women is higher than that of white men.

    Nice link.

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  57. It’s breathtaking how dishonest Chetty’s analysis is.

    The guy is making a huge claim about the relation between cognitive ability and race, without having any variable that represents cognitive ability?

    Who does that?

    And why does he imagine he has any way to get at this question even indirectly, given the data and statistics he offers up?

    Obviously, gender has some major impact on individual income that is not captured by cognitive ability alone. No one needs data on blacks to show that. Just looking at whites, one expects the average cognitive ability of the white male children from a given parental income to be pretty much the same as the average cognitive ability of white female children from the same parental income. And yet there is a dramatic difference in their average individual incomes.

    The point is, unless one can understand how it is that gender affects these individual incomes, effectively fixing cognitive ability, one can’t possibly come to any of the sorts of conclusions he does.

    And, so far as I have heard, he makes zero attempt to provide such an account.

    What a preening blowhard.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    What a preening blowhard
     
    Chetty, Chetty, Bang Bang
    He shot him down
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  58. @FPD72
    During 1978-1981, while I was in grad school, I was the director of a half-way house for juvenile delinquents. Just your average armed robbers, car thieves, and drug dealers. More than half of the boys were black. Two observations that may be relevant:

    Out of sixty some odd boys who came through the program, only two came from families in which the biological father was present. All of the black kids came from fatherless homes.

    You’ve never seen such an accumulation of mamas boys in your life. All of the black kids made great declarations of love and devotion for their mamas, and the mamas gave every indication that they doted on their sons. The case workers with whom I met indicated that this was the norm and that in their experience black mamas treated their sons better than their daughters.

    Arabs are the same way, albeit less criminal.

    But then, Dad is present if little Daoud steps out of line. The boy will get a good camelwhipping.

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  59. @candid_observer
    It's breathtaking how dishonest Chetty's analysis is.

    The guy is making a huge claim about the relation between cognitive ability and race, without having any variable that represents cognitive ability?

    Who does that?

    And why does he imagine he has any way to get at this question even indirectly, given the data and statistics he offers up?

    Obviously, gender has some major impact on individual income that is not captured by cognitive ability alone. No one needs data on blacks to show that. Just looking at whites, one expects the average cognitive ability of the white male children from a given parental income to be pretty much the same as the average cognitive ability of white female children from the same parental income. And yet there is a dramatic difference in their average individual incomes.

    The point is, unless one can understand how it is that gender affects these individual incomes, effectively fixing cognitive ability, one can't possibly come to any of the sorts of conclusions he does.

    And, so far as I have heard, he makes zero attempt to provide such an account.

    What a preening blowhard.

    What a preening blowhard

    Chetty, Chetty, Bang Bang
    He shot him down

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  60. Those “worst places” show widely– indeed, wildly– varied levels of immigrant competition. High in Chicago, low in Cincinnati and Detroit.

    So immigration is not relevant to this issue. Making life hell for blacks is not “a job Americans won’t do”. They do it just fine with no help.

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  61. I suppose if I said that the group looked like a bunch of nerds, they would tell me that they resembled that remark.

    Pretty nerdy, guys (and gals).

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  62. @Travis
    does the First Lady get paid a salary ? Would she appear to have zero individual income during her 8 years living at taxpayer expense in the White house ? According to Chetty , Mrs. Obama regressed badly when her husband was elected President, as her income fell to zero.

    She had a staff of 26 to help her cope with no income.

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    • Replies: @Travis
    yet Chetty put Mrs. Obama among the bolton tenth of Black women because she has zero income and lives in public housing.
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  63. 30% income gap massively understates the productivity differences between blacks and whites anyway, so it’s likely many of those jobs at the higher end of the income spectrum are fake. Women are more likely to have fake jobs regardless of race and are more conscientious pursuing bullshit to win status than men. Anecdotally, in tech there are tons of black women working white collar compliance jobs earning a lot of money who contribute very little to the organisation, while most black men are either janitorial staff or, very few, engineers who are about as good as the white engineers doing their same job.

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  64. Anonymous[100] • Disclaimer says:

    None of this matters. Nothing will move the minds of people who would prefer to believe white people s racism is the cause of all ills. The idea provides so much comfort to so many, that it will never go away.

    The issue is how white people deal with this reality. As white populations recede, we are going to find ourselves in real trouble.

    It’s beginning to slowly sink in for many whites that we don’t really have control of our own nations and destinies any longer. If you look at uncensored comments sections and forums, the discussion has evolved a fair bit over the last year or two, but it’s going to be a slow awakening.

    The values and ways of thinking that are deeply embedded in most white people are going to need to be re-evaluated by each of us. It will be a very long and painful process. It’s hard to know if whites still have the survival instinct that’s going to be required.

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  65. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Anecdotally, in tech there are tons of black women working white collar compliance jobs earning a lot of money who contribute very little to the organisation

    I wasn’t aware of this job category. It kind of fits that there would be a lot of black women doing it: A chance for someone with minimal qualifications and a big chip on her shoulder to boss around and intimidate whitey men.

    This is similar to the various university administration jobs that allow similarly unqualified and bitter women and transwomen to threaten and terrorize tenured faculty members in STEM departments over diversity and inclusion.

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  66. This work of Chetty is not only batshit crazy, it is fundamentally dishonest.

    I feel sorry for Steve. He is an order of magnitude smarter than Chetty and is willing to go where the data takes him–in short honest. Chetty is a snake oil salesman selling politically correct untruths wrapped in the veneer of rigor. He gets his garbage published in the NYT while Steve labors on the margins and is considered a pariah by the great and the good.

    The truth shall not set you free in our corrupted modern world–it shall consign you to obscurity and marginalization.

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    • Agree: BB753
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  67. @utu
    No, it is not the same. So what is "adjusting for their parent’ income" ? Adjusting is not scaling the income by any number. Adjusting is comparing apples and apples defined as parents' income. Then there is no difference between B and W women. The only problem is that the environment variable x="parents' income" is probably correlated with genes.

    SAT after being adjusted for parents’ income does not make differences between B and W scores go away. Since according to Chetty B and W women income difference practically vanishes when adjusted for parent’s income one may conclude that parent’s income is more important than SAT and SAT is not as strong determinant of the future income as is parents’ income.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    His conclusion is incomplete unless he controls for factors like single-parenting, marriage rates, affirmative action adjustments and partner income.

    I want to see the regression results. Are those available?
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  68. @Yak-15
    It’s weird that Chetty mentions that racism is the cause but then mentions that blacks who grow up in white neighborhoods experience better outcomes.

    Why wouldn’t blacks who grow up in white neighborhoods experience more racism; being around actual racists (whites)? How do blacks who grow up in all black neighborhoods experience racism (no whites around)?

    Did this occur to anyone else?

    It’s Magic Dirt! It can do anything!

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  69. @Jim Don Bob
    She had a staff of 26 to help her cope with no income.

    yet Chetty put Mrs. Obama among the bolton tenth of Black women because she has zero income and lives in public housing.

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  70. @utu
    SAT after being adjusted for parents' income does not make differences between B and W scores go away. Since according to Chetty B and W women income difference practically vanishes when adjusted for parent's income one may conclude that parent's income is more important than SAT and SAT is not as strong determinant of the future income as is parents' income.

    His conclusion is incomplete unless he controls for factors like single-parenting, marriage rates, affirmative action adjustments and partner income.

    I want to see the regression results. Are those available?

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  71. @Steve Sailer
    My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.

    “My impression is that black women tend to think even more highly of their sons than do other mothers.”

    Caveats, as in most human interactions, do apply.

    Does the mother hold the father in high regard?
    Is the son a sole boy (or, for that matter, an only child?)
    Is the son obedient?
    Is the son a high earner (legal or illegal)?
    Is the presence of the son of net social benefit?

    Then yes, momma will forgive her son anything. If they live in a high crime environment and the son has “clout”, then she loves him as much as the sun. If they live in a low crime area and he has a respected job, ditto. You aren’t going to visit a ghetto and hear low class black women bragging about their plumber/a.c. repairmen/bus driver sons. If those women have multiple sons, the “good ones” get a token mention and the criminals receive paragraphs of praise/scorn.

    That being said, on this very page, posters were befuddled about the reaction to a black male athlete picking a school that “his momma” didn’t want him to attend (yes, she embarrassed him by walking out in front of the cameras.) For a black child with a black mother, emotional responses as that are far from rare.

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