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From Perspectives on Psychological Science:

Latitudinal Psychology: An Ecological Perspective on Creativity, Aggression, Happiness, and Beyond
Evert Van de Vliert, Paul A. M. Van Lange First Published August 21, 2019

Abstract
Are there systematic trends around the world in levels of creativity, aggressiveness, life satisfaction, individualism, trust, and suicidality? This article suggests a new field, latitudinal psychology, that delineates differences in such culturally shared features along northern and southern rather than eastern and western locations. In addition to geographical, ecological, and other explanations, we offer three metric foundations of latitudinal variations: replicability (latitudinal gradient repeatability across hemispheres), reversibility (north-south gradient reversal near the equator), and gradient strength (degree of replicability and reversibility). We show that aggressiveness decreases whereas creativity, life satisfaction, and individualism increase as one moves closer to either the North or South Pole. We also discuss the replicability, reversibility, and gradient strength of (a) temperatures and rainfall as remote predictors and (b) pathogen prevalence, national wealth, population density, and income inequality as more proximate predictors of latitudinal gradients in human functioning. Preliminary analyses suggest that cultural and psychological diversity often need to be partially understood in terms of latitudinal variations in integrated exposure to climate-induced demands and wealth-based resources. We conclude with broader implications, emphasizing the importance of north-south replications in samples that are not from Western, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic (WEIRD) societies.

As Jared Diamond pointed out, it’s been harder down through history for farmers to move to a different latitude because their crops tends to be optimized for a particular length of growing season. But moving east or west is easier because the sun is at the same height in the sky.

Michael Barone pointed out that 19th Century Americans built too many east-west railroads to be consistently profitable, but the north-south Illinois Central was a goldmine. Americans seemed to feel most comfortable moving westward along the same latitude, as depicted DH Fisher’s Albion’s Seed.

There are countries that appear to be excessively wide from east to west to be cohesive, such as 800-mile wide Ukraine.

My impression is that Ryan Coogler’s Black Panther film involves a latitude/altitude theory inspired by the director’s visit to Lesotho, an enclave country within South Africa where 80% of the territory is at least 6,000 feet in elevation. I suspect Coogler hypothesized that Bantus would have eventually evolved a more technological culture in snowy winter places like Lesotho: thus quite a bit of the movie is set above the snowline in Wakanda. But Bantus only got as far south as Lesotho fairly recently — nobody seems to know when exactly, but probably not that many centuries ago.

 
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  1. Kronos says:

    “Americans seemed to feel most comfortable moving westward along the same latitude, as depicted DH Fisher’s Albion’s Seed.”

    I loved the section on the Scot-Irish. The skill of skinning alive rival clan members and nailing their skin outside your house must’ve been great at keeping traveling salesmen out.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  2. prosa123 says:

    Lesotho has the highest lowest elevation of any country.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  3. It’s almost as though you shouldn’t fill up your country with jungle people.

    “Bantus only got as far south as Lesotho fairly recently — nobody seems to know when exactly, but probably not that many centuries ago.”

    The usual suspects will fight to the death to “prove” that the Bantus got to South Africa at least a week before the Dutch.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
  4. This at times etymologically digressive video explains the various “belts” in America, most of which run east-and-west:

    but the north-south Illinois Central was a goldmine.

    It sure was for Steve Goodman and Arlo Guthrie:

  5. @prosa123

    Lesotho has the highest lowest elevation of any country.

    The Colorado of Africa!

    Florida has the lowest highest elevation of any state– look up Britton Hill– but Delaware the lowest mean elevation.

    For countries, the other extreme has to be the Maldives. They’re actually buying up land in other countries, knowing they’ll eventually be forced to evacuate.

    Their government once held a cabinet meeting underwater, to make a point:

    I believe Uruguay has the southernmost northernmost point, which is surprising.

  6. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    This “latitudinal psychology” concept would have come in handy for Amy Wax in the part of this interview in which Malaysia comes up. Not because it necessarily has a lot of explanatory power, but just to keep her inquisitor off balance.

    BTW, Chotiner helpfully demonstrates the two-pronged attack on realists. Where there the data is obscured or not readily available, because it’s taboo to study, he says Wax offers no data to bring up her “opinion” that some groups litter more than others. And when she cites scholarly data, he dismisses it by suggesting the scholar (Richard Lynn, in this case) is beyond the pale.

  7. Lot says:

    I think Europe has three big gradients:

    1. Center to edge: the further inside the Hajnal line the better. So roughly Geneva and Lyon as the best spot here. The general and overall level of civilization increases on this gradient, as does IQ.

    2. North to south, ending in Scandinavia: honestly, bravery, athleticism

    3. NW to SE, ending around London: intelligence, creativity, commercial and scientific abilities.

    You put these various factors together and you end up with the Blue Banana where you have the peak of per capita European achievement and wealth running from London and and Paris and Amsterdam down the Rhine and through Bavaria, Switzerland, Lombardy, and Tuscany.

    • Agree: bomag
  8. @Dave Pinsen

    Isaac Chotiner = Heroic? Satanic!

    • LOL: Dave Pinsen
  9. Shermy says:

    My dad told me over 40 years ago: “Son, always remember, the closer to the equator you go, the dumber people get.”

    I’ve found this to be true anecdotally, but I’m glad we got some fancy-pants science to back up my dad!

    • Replies: @prosa123
  10. Lot says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    I read that earlier. She has brass balls citing Richard Lynn during a hostile MSM interview.

    The interview was overall not worthwhile. Chotiner is a high IQ lying bastard. It was mostly him baiting Wax into calling Trump a racist or admitting she thinks whites are genetically higher in IQ, creativity, and conscientious: the official line that would get her deplatformed if she crossed.

    She was effective in her responses, which were to keep saying the left uses “racist” as a bludgeon to stifle debate and the term is meaningless, and also to imply she’s a hereditarian without admitting it explicitly. She also turned the questions about whether she believes in racial differences around: those are interesting questions we should research, but PC leftism censors and mobs anyone who attempts to do so.

    Better reading is her recent speech:

    https://thefederalist.com/2019/07/26/heres-amy-wax-really-said-immigration/

    And her Sailer-name-dropping article here:

    https://www.law.georgetown.edu/public-policy-journal/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2018/11/16-S-Debating-Immigration-Restriction.pdf

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @kikz
    , @SFG
  11. So, those bad 18th century people knew what they were talking about when they first proposed this idea?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  12. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Lot

    Wax mentions she’s not on Twitter – her loss: if she were, she might have seen this evidence to support her observation about who litters more.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  13. Did you find that confounded abstract in the Journal of Onion Psychology?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  14. @Reg Cæsar

    New Zeeland should have a more southern northern point, unless they have some extra island to them somewhere north.

  15. IHTG says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    She’s not on Twitter, but her son is.

  16. @Reg Cæsar

    I had to look up that point about Uruguay it’s so surprising. I see it’s correct but only by including the northernmost island in the Kermadec group of islands way to the north of New Zealand. They are certainly a sovereign part of New Zealand but not inhabited apart from a few scientists and very rarely visited. Crazy place whacked by cyclones, volocnoes and massive earthquakes. Anybody who lived there for any stretch of time would probably come up with a very vengeful God

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Reg Cæsar
  17. IHTG says:
    @Lot

    2. North to south, ending in Scandinavia: honestly, bravery, athleticism

    Lot the Nordicist. Some ZOG agent you are!

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  18. @Lot

    Mostly agree. Not sure I understand 2. all that well though.

  19. Altai says:

    My impression is that Ryan Coogler’s Black Panther film involves a latitude/altitude theory inspired by the director’s visit to Lesotho, an enclave country within South Africa where 80% of the territory is at least 6,000 feet in elevation. I suspect Coogler hypothesized that Bantus would have eventually evolved a more technological culture in snowy winter places like Lesotho: thus quite a bit of the movie is set above the snowline in Wakanda.

    He may well have been but in the film (As in the comics) isn’t the snow confined to the higher elevations inhabited by the barbaric tribe led by a character called ‘Man-Ape’ in the comics who none-the-less hoots like a non-human primate to tell the white character to shut up in the film.

  20. … emphasizing the importance of north-south replications in samples that are not from Western, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic (WEIRD) societies.

    Don’t tell the kids in Austin they’ve been culturally misappropriated by know-it-alls farther north.

    • LOL: kikz
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  21. Bill P says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    It amazes me how much parsing and hair-splitting Jews can tolerate. I’d rate myself above average for a European Christian in that dept., but there comes a time when enough is enough. Amy Wax has a supernatural ability to put up with it.

    Your average white Christian American hates guys like Chotiner. I mean really has a strong disgust response to them. Eventually that level of bullshit leads to physical reactions and next thing you know it goes kinetic.

    It’s probably going there, sad to say. Only the dead see an end to war…

    • LOL: IHTG
  22. @Cowboy shaw

    I love uninhabited islands with names starting in Ker- like Kermadec and Kerguelen, which I’ve long advocated as a place where billionaires could hunt revivified Ice Age wooly mammoths.

  23. I have always thought that it is no surprise that the industrial revolution took place in the cold to moderate climate of England.

    It would have been impossible to have those mills and factories with no air conditioning running in the summer weather of Greece and Italy, where within my memory all businesses including banks closed down from midday to five p.m. so that the employees could go home, eat lunch, and sleep through the heat of the day, preferably under a fan.

    Similarly the US south pre air-conditioning was largely unliveable for Europeans in the summer months and today just about the only places that do not have air-conditioning are prisons, as a reminder that if you don’t play by the rules in a civilized society, then you will have to live like an animal.

    It also appears that sexual continence and marital fidelity has always been much easier to be applied as an ideal in colder climates, where the testicles are held closer to the body and it is too cold to bathe in the winter, and hotter climates, where clothing has historically been minimal or optional have also lent themselves to more immediate impulsive type of sexual norms.

  24. @Jonathan Mason

    It was a help that in the days pre air conditioning Congress shut down for the Summer and nothing got done from June to September.

  25. Charon says:

    What rhymes with longitude? And why are stories like this not in the NYT?

    https://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article234301942.html

    • LOL: kikz
  26. dearieme says:
    @Lot

    And yet many of the most important contributors to the Industrial Revolution – the most important period in all economic history – came from outside that blue banana.

    • Replies: @Lot
  27. Semi-OT

    Desperate DNC Chair Set to Hold Fundraisers … In Mexico

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-22/desperate-dnc-chair-set-hold-fundraisers-mexico

    At a minimum this type of seditious behavior should lead to immediate revocation of US citizenship.

    • Replies: @Corn
  28. kikz says:
    @Lot

    thx so much for posting the federalist link to Wax’s speech…. 🙂 definitely a keeper!

  29. @Steve Sailer

    Matthew Parris spent some time on the Kerguelens a while back and wrote a bit about it: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a-deadly-shadow-falls-on-desolation-island-wfw7nmpg72q

    South of New Zealand well on the way to Antarctica there are some very wild islands called as a group the Subantarctic Islands.

    They are now uninhabited but have an incredible history of whaling and doomed settlements and terrible shipwrecks, with survivors clinging on for years, having to wear seal skin for clothes before rescue.

    Amazing wildlife. Strange plants, sea elephants, albatrosses, and wild relentless appalling weather.

  30. kikz says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    i remember reading a couple of essays concerning…. Whites developing ‘madness’ w/prolonged exposure to tropical heat… as consequence of inhabiting ‘alien’ environs…the old Kipling riff “mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noon day sun’

    and another on disease/pathogen vectors as affected by (latitude/attitude) and home grown environmentally tuned immunity…….and altitude and humidity, also play a factor…ex: less/no mozzies in the mts… no malaria or other mozzie vector disease found in non-migratory higher elevation populations.

    my ‘library of alexandria’ bookmarks are in a mess….

  31. HA says:

    “We show that aggressiveness decreases whereas creativity, life satisfaction, and individualism increase as one moves closer to either the North or South Pole.”

    If true, this is an interesting plot twist in that long-running saga of warlike barbarian northerner hordes repeatedly descending from the mountains or steppes to subjugate the purportedly peaceful agriculturalists living in the temperate zones.

    It may well be the case upon closer inspection that the berserkers and the barbarians, for all their obvious aggression, were actually less aggressive (towards one another, at least) than the people they raided, pillaged, and conquered, as well as more individualistic in general. I’ve read more than once that the problem with Viking raiding parties was indeed that they were hard to unify in the absence of a clear and convincing promise of a large stash of loot at journey’s end, and that otherwise they fell apart easily, so it’s certainly possible.

    • Replies: @Logan
  32. Sean says:

    But Bantus only got as far south as Lesotho fairly recently — nobody seems to know when exactly, but probably not that many centuries ago.

    The Bantu expansion was on the back of garden agriculture. Hoe farming is easy in West Africa, but not the South.

    The way to be rich was to control lots of food resources and that meant land. The way to control land in West Africa was to have many wives to work it. So men were selected for ability to attract women. Women just had to take their pick, although they did not get their chosen male to themselves because it was polygynous marriage.

    Tibet is virtually unique in having polyandry, which means one woman having multiple husbands.

    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Logan
  33. Logan says:
    @HA

    It may well be the case upon closer inspection that the berserkers and the barbarians, for all their obvious aggression, were actually less aggressive (towards one another, at least) than the people they raided, pillaged, and conquered

    Very doubtful indeed. Which is why only a very rare individual like Attila or Temujin was able to unite the constantly warring tribes long enough to turn them into the irresistible force they potentially were all along. All you have to do is read the family history of those two men to see that their people were very aggressive towards each other.

    Not just between tribes, but within tribes and even within nuclear families. Temujin’s father was murdered by rivals, and Temujin himself murdered his brother while he was still a child. Attila had a similar family history.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @HA
    , @Alden
  34. Logan says:
    @Sean

    But is that really true?

    I constantly see people like Jordan Peterson talking about how women sexually select for men. But that simply doesn’t match up with pre-modern societies still around or with what we know of almost all ancient societies.

    The norm for as far back as we know is not for women to select the men they find more sexually attractive, but for them to (quite literally) be “given” to men selected for them by their families, usually in theory the father, although I suspect the women of the family often had a lot of influence.

    To be sure, the factors leading a father to gift his daughter to a man (wealth, status, power) were often similar to those that would make him sexually attractive to the women herself, but it being simply her choice has been a very rare thing thru history, becoming common even in the western world only in the last century or two.

    The gift of the woman’s sexuality and fertility without her agreement was almost always backed up with ferocious punishment for her sharing them with anyone other than her husband.

    I’ve always wondered how so many commentators can so easily ignore this entirely obvious fact.

    I should note that I’m quite ignorant of Bantu traditional custom in this regard. Maybe they do give the choice to the women themselves.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @NOTA
    , @Joe Schmoe
  35. @Dave Pinsen

    So, she is fine with being called a professor who ”wants to make America white again?”

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @guest
  36. Logan says:

    Attempted to look up Bantu marriage customs, but getting information is pretty tough. The older, pre-PC articles are totally contradicted by the more recent ones, where nothing that might be seen as negative can be said about African societies. There is also of course enormous variation across the Bantu societies, which covers an immense area.

    But the most common forms of marriage seem to be by purchase or abduction, with choice by the women coming in a distant third.

    If anybody has a better understanding of this, I’m all ears.

    • Replies: @Sean
  37. prosa123 says:
    @Shermy

    My dad told me over 40 years ago: “Son, always remember, the closer to the equator you go, the dumber people get.”

    India might be a counter example, with the southern part (Chennai, Bangalore) being more economically advanced than the more northern areas around the Ganges. China to some extent too, Guangzhou being more advanced than Manchuria.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @anon
  38. @Jonathan Mason

    I dunno know about you sexual norms hypothesis. There’s a longstanding belt of hyper-slutty women beginning in NJ and getting progressively worse going further north until it abates in northern New Hampshire, northern Vermont and Maine.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  39. @Dave Pinsen

    “…beyond the pale.”

    Unintended irony, right?

  40. @Reg Cæsar

    What a great song on the demise of the American passenger railroads, Reg. If you’re gonna go all Steve Goodman on us, than why not a song for the Parrotheads, off of the very album Mr. Sailer refers to with the post title?:

    BTW, Steve, your headline made me think that Jimmy Buffett had died or something. I just expected that from the title. I’m glad that’s not the case!

  41. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @prosa123

    Absolutely.

    Southern India could have a shot at being a first world country in the next 80 years if it manages to secede from Northern India.

    Meanwhile Northern India is full of low IQ fundie Muslims and fundie Hindus.

    England is also a good example. The most functional Englishmen are from the suburbs of London. Meanwhile, the north of England is full of drunk hooligans on benefits with 9 out of wedlock children, like Nobby Butcher from the movie Grimsby.

  42. Americans seemed to feel most comfortable moving westward along the same latitude, as depicted DH Fisher’s Albion’s Seed.

    Great book, BTW. That’s true only out through a longitude at which the climate is not just latitude dependent. (Example, the marine west coast climate goes way up through the latitude of Minnesota, but those climates are way different).

    If you look at this across continents, in particular migration from Europe to the US of A, you could subtract 10 – 15 degrees of latitude to get the the climate you left in Europe. Scandinavians from, just say, around Stockholm (60 deg N) settled nicely in the upper Midwest and also in western Washington State (45-49 deg N). One can see that even today in the graveyards in Seattle, Jimmy Hendrix being an exception of course.

    The original American settlers came from England (50 – 55 deg N) to the American east coast (mid-30-deg N in the Carolinas to 42 deg N in Boston)

    C’mon guys! It’s all the Gulf Stream these days!

    BTW, I love this geography discussion.

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    , @Anonymous
  43. Logan says:
    @Sean

    Hoe farming is easy in West Africa, but not the South.

    Not debating the point, but why is this the case?

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Swede55
  44. @Dave Pinsen

    Thanks for that Dave. And there we were, in America (I don’t see the Mississippi on that map) trying to watch the seals and sea lions at the zoo, while this loud-mouthed zoo-keeper went on the WHOLE TIME about how we’ve got watch where we throw our plastic bags, blah, blah!

    There’s more of this rant in Peak Stupidity’s “Someone told me it’s all happening at the zoo …” (yes, of course, Simon & Garfunkle’s song is in the post.)

  45. Jack D says:

    The same latitude thing doesn’t quite hold up in US vs Europe comparisons. Because of warm currents, London is further north than icy Winnipeg and sunny Rome, where citrus trees grow, is about as far north as snowy Boston.

  46. drogger says:

    Margaritaville is just a state-of-mind, man.

    Is this really true though? Northerners flock south for the winter and on their summer vacations. The appeal of sunny weather and temperate conditions explains the popularity of states like NC being a popular place to move to. Air condition helps.

    There is also the problem of disease when you go farther south. Not for nothing that Europeans didn’t penetrate the heart of Africa and the Amazon until quinine.

    East-West is just easier to move along than North-South traditionally.

  47. @Jack D

    Yeah, it is interesting that Washington has a similar latitude to Baghdad. Perhaps that is why the two capitals cannot keep out of each other’s business.

  48. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @prosa123

    Hey, I thought all you unzians loved Dixie!

  49. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    When Hunter Thompson was trying to explain the Wallace phenom, he harkened to his people likely being criminals transported to places like Georgia, where would have seemed like Hell on Earth to an English peasant.

  50. @Kronos

    I loved the section on the Scot-Irish. The skill of skinning alive rival clan members and nailing their skin outside your house must’ve been great at keeping traveling salesmen out.

    We be no Irish, but Scoatch!

    Givens is my connection to the Scotch-Irish.

    Givens married into Inman and Jordan and Sullivan people.

    Scotch ain’t just a drink!

    • Replies: @Kronos
  51. Steve should email the authors to tell them about Moynihan’s law of the Canadian border, or whatever it’s called.

  52. a character called ‘Man-Ape’ … hoots like a non-human primate to tell the white character to shut up

    a character called ‘Man-Ape’ … hoots like a woke college student to tell the white character to shut up

  53. SFG says:
    @Lot

    My best guess is that Steve’s statement about guys too old to care what happens to them and start running their mouths applies to the occasional woman as well.

    And someone ought to mention she has parentheses.

    BTW, Steve: why would a country be uncohesive *east-west*; wouldn’t a *north-south* country be at more risk, since you have disparate climates and personality types? Chile and Argentina seem to be pretty stable, though. And how about Russia? Or is it just too spread-out to be an issue?

    I think Ukraine just happens to have a history where the eastern part was colonized by another country.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Michael Soeren
  54. @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, examining the belts of America reveals that the issue is more complex than people’s comfort with latitude. For example, there are no belts that cross the Great Lakes region.

    The USA has idiosyncrasies of geography. The major waterways and mountain ranges run north-south. The funnel shape caused by the Gulf and the division of the two coasts by Central America make East-West movement more feasible and more important.

    It also has idiosyncrasies of history. The country expanded toward the West Coast from the beginning, leaving the developed areas on the end of an E-W axis.. Threats from the north and south were negligible.

    In the war of 1812, geographic and historical factors merged in the planned British advance towards NYC down the Champlain and Hudson Valleys. No rail lines needed to attack or defend along that expanse.

    Maybe if central Canada and Mexico had been real strategic threats (or really important sources of trade) and our government and financial centers in the middle of the country with navigable rivers flowing E-W (like the St.Lawrence) from the Great Lakes, we would have seen more N-S railways.

    Anyway, investigating by “belt” is a kind of selection bias inasmuch as the term belt describes E-W regions. We have “corridor” for example. The NE corridor pretty much describes the N-S rail system built in response to the country’s geography and the flow of intellectual etc capital between Harvard and Washington DC.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  55. Anonymous[549] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    2. North to south, ending in Scandinavia: honestly, bravery, athleticism

    Aren’t Italians and Balkans pretty athletic?

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Feryl
  56. Svevlad says:

    Note too that the more diverse a climate, the more diverse the personalities of the people that inhabit it. The ancients figured this out, kinda, but misattributed it to celestial objects (forming every females favorite field, astrology) instead of the climatic conditions that are present as the baby develops in the womb.

    Which is why if Africans had higher IQs, they’d all be like ants. Only 1 or 2 personality types.

  57. Anonymous[549] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer

    So, those bad 18th century people knew what they were talking about when they first proposed this idea?

    What idea did they propose?

  58. Anonymous[549] • Disclaimer says:
    @miss marple

    Did you find that confounded abstract in the Journal of Onion Psychology?

    What is the confounding factor?

  59. @Steve Sailer

    I love uninhabited islands with names starting in Ker- like Kermadec and Kerguelen, which I’ve long advocated as a place where billionaires could hunt revivified Ice Age wooly mammoths.

    Ted Turner is the most obvious candidate. He owns a chunk of Montana. Rudyard in that state is the only municipality in the continental US antipodal to land, and that land is Kerguelen. (If you’re a bull in the flat half of Colorado, you might be antipodal to Île Amsterdam or Île Saint-Paul.)

    http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/antipode/

    Hawaii is antipodal to Botswana, and much of Alaska to Antarctica.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  60. Jack D says:
    @SFG

    I can think of a country that had a major North/South issue, one that was based in part by the different forms of agriculture practiced in those regions.

    China has a rice/wheat divide (and further north and west an agriculture/pastureland divide) which led to cultural differences between regions.

    • Replies: @SFG
  61. Jack D says:

    Australia is not antipodal but it overlaps in latitude with Melbourne being about even with Richmond, VA .

  62. @Cowboy shaw

    Wikipedia lists the top (or bottom) four (ignoring Antarctica and the non-sovereign Falklands) as Uruguay, New Zealand, Lesotho, and Eswatini, or eSwatini, Apple-style, the new rebranding of Swaziland.

    Uruguay’s northern border includes a couple of twin towns separated from Brazil only by the median of a shopping avenue. Even the US and Canada don’t have that, though we do have Derby Line.

    “Eswatini” sounds like 007 killed an annoying fly, which landed in his cocktail.

    • Replies: @adreadline
    , @Lagertha
  63. SFG says:
    @Jack D

    That was actually my first thought, but I didn’t want the whole thing to be about the Civil War.

    Certainly we’ve had more problems in that regard than, say, Canada, where the Europeans live in a narrow north-south band along the American border, and the Inuit/First Peoples live up north where it suits them.

  64. JWO says:

    We show that aggressiveness decreases whereas creativity, life satisfaction, and individualism increase as one moves closer to either the North or South Pole.

    I don’t know how true that is. Southeast Asians are not known for their violence and viciousness (at least before Islam got there), whereas the Vikings were.

    • Replies: @SFG
  65. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    “sunny Rome, where citrus trees grow, is about as far north as snowy Boston.”

    You can grow the hardiest palm trees in Scandinavia.

    Denmark:

    Sweden:

  66. @Reg Cæsar

    I believe Ted Turner also purchased land in the Patagonia region of Argentina when he was humping Jane Fonda. They also bought a grand house from an elderly German couple who wanted to downsize to an apartment in nearby Bariloche. Ted and Jane kept in touch with the German couple, who had many exciting stories to tell about their experiences during the war. The one about them escaping Berlin as the Russians came knocking was particularly thrilling.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  67. HoekomSA says:

    The Blacks(Bantu ) only moved Into what is Lesotho during the early 1800’s at the time of the Mfecane. Although blacks had been in Southern Africa since about the 4th century AD, they had not colonised the whole country and at times appear to have died out in the centre of the country and was recolonised during thefrom the 13th century when the Sotho people colonised down from the north.
    unoccupied
    The land previous to the arrival of the Blacks was not empty but had been lived in from the beggining of humanity by bushmen and the later by Hottentots (Black/ Bushmen mix).

    The bushmen were formidable warriors where the terrain was difficult and hence could repuls the Bantu. Also the Bantu did not like the cold of lestho(Bit like the Romans didnt like the scottish highlands)
    However during the late 1700’s due to a variety of problems (Maize losing fertility, a cooling of the earth, Shaka causing Havoc, the Griqua’s etc) , a period of Chaos erupted and whole populations were displaced and genocide (and cannibalism) prevailed. No one knows how many people died but it was significant (up to 2m). Hence in this environment the Blacks move into Lesotho for protection and displaced the Bushmen. The last bushmen of Lesotho were exterminatedby Moshoeshwe’s grandchildren around 1870’s . You can still visit the Bushman paintings in Lesotho and Natal that derive from that time.

  68. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @adreadline

    I doubt she was given veto power over the title.

    • Replies: @adreadline
    , @Lagertha
  69. SFG says:
    @JWO

    You can always find exceptions, and most societies had lots of wars for most of history. Southeast Asia had lots of wars–Ashoka’s famous for not being a warmonger.

    I just figure with it being harder to make a living growing food (which is how everybody made a living before about 1800), you have to have more on the ball further north, and the rest follows.

  70. Anonymous[549] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim bob Lassiter

    I dunno know about you sexual norms hypothesis. There’s a longstanding belt of hyper-slutty women beginning in NJ and getting progressively worse going further north until it abates in northern New Hampshire, northern Vermont and Maine.

    I hadn’t heard about this before.

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
  71. Lot says:
    @Anonymous

    Italians: not athletic compared to further north.

    Balkans: the tall pockets of ex Yugoslavia produce a lot of basketball players, but not overall.

    Here’s a per capita summer olympic medal table:

    https://www.topendsports.com/events/summer/medal-tally/all-time-comparison-pop.htm

    You can’t take this too seriously since small countries get more -attempts- at medals per capita. And early games were biased toward richer countries with strong amateur athletic traditions.

    Nonetheless, the gross pattern supports my gradient theory. Bulgaria is an outlier. This is partly because there are so many wrestling weight classes, but they do well in a bunch of other categories like shooting, boxing, and gymnastics.

  72. Lot says:
    @dearieme

    “came from outside that blue banana.”

    Though mostly close to it when not inside.

    The first place to industrialize outside of England itself was Wallonia, right in the middle of the BB, and it spread out from there.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  73. Anon[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Switzerland is a fine place, but how does it represent a “peak”? It played no outstanding role in the various European cultural and technical movements throughout history.

  74. It’s high time we dial-up northward migration.

    Italy has always been an interesting counterpoint to this though. The Apennine Mountains divide the peninsula E/W so there are good N/S routes but E/W has been a long time coming, so eastern and western Italy, say nothing of NW, SE, NE, SW quadrants – experience cultural distance that’s unusual in other places of similar size.

  75. pyrrhus says:
    @HammerJack

    The main effect of latitude is that evolutionary Northerners are invariably more intelligent than those in more southerly latitudes….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  76. @Dave Pinsen

    Given the contents of the interview, isn’t it potentially defamatory? Would a reasonable person, upon reading the exchange, agree with the assertion she ”wants to make America white again”? Not that I’m willing to fight on her behalf, no, specially if she isn’t up to it herself.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  77. Didn’t Moynihan say this years ago?

  78. Anonymous[505] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    It doesn’t even apply across Eurasia either. Western Europe has a mild Oceanic climate. East of Western Europe you have a Continental climate.

    Beijing, Seoul, and Pyongyang are south of Rome, yet get as cold or colder than Scandinavia in the winter. Beijing has colder winters than Stockholm, and is about as cold as Oslo in the winter. Seoul is about as cold as Stockholm in the winter. Pyongyang has colder winters than Stockholm, Oslo, and Helsinki.

  79. @Steve Sailer

    I love uninhabited islands with names starting in Ker- like Kermadec and Kerguelen, which I’ve long advocated as a place where billionaires could hunt revivified Ice Age wooly mammoths.

    Jeffrey Epstein missed his chance. He could have flown wealthy zoöphiles to Kerguelen to sauna with the megafauna. ( Anyone for “masturdon”?)

    Proboscids don’t talk, so he’d be in the clear. They do have long memories, though.

    Now for some brain bleach to clear your minds of that image. A very attractive nerd girl (sorry, I’m a confirmed “sapiosexual”) with the Field Museum explains the difficulties of putting new life into leftover meat:

    • Replies: @SFG
  80. @Jonathan Mason

    today just about the only places that do not have air-conditioning are prisons, as a reminder that if you don’t play by the rules in a civilized society, then you will have to live like an animal

    As opposed to Britain, where prisoners still shit in buckets because Her Majesty’s jailers don’t provide flush toilets. But don’t worry, the inmates are suing and winning cash settlements, because the brilliant Brits banned “slopping out” before finishing the job of installing toilets.

    Note to Brits: you probably should have done the plumbing first, the ban second. But I guess there was a shortage of Poles to do the work.

    Anyway, the idea of Englishman Richard Reid (the “Shoe Bomber”) tossing and turning at night in July “like an animal” makes me quite happy.

  81. eah says:

    Or changes in sea level.

  82. Corn says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Yet it’s Russians unduly influencing elections we’re told!

  83. Kronos says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    I’m sensing a pattern with this man and his Scot-Irish Ancestry.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  84. @Reg Cæsar

    Uruguay’s northern border includes a couple of twin towns separated from Brazil only by the median of a shopping avenue. Even the US and Canada don’t have that, though we do have Derby Line.

    There are also at least two regions, one of them a river island, that are not mutually acknowledged to belong to either Brazil or Uruguay, with little if any consequence.

  85. @Jonathan Mason

    The 19th Century American cults which practiced polygyny or “free love” (Mormons, the Oneida Community and some lesser known ones) all seem to have originated in New England or in adjacent states settled by New Englanders.

  86. Sean says:
    @Logan

    Robin Dunbar the anthropologist researched this and came to the conclusion that Berserkers were an example of inclusive fitness. They did not have many children but the brother of a berserker was less likely to suffer violence; being not bothered by troublemakers challenging him to duels because of the fear his psycho sibling created.

  87. SFG says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    She’s quite cute in that bookwormy way…but seems quite lefty from her Twitter account.

    Given that nerdy girls seem to lean far left these days, I’m trying to cure myself of the same illness.

    I’m guessing you got lucky.

  88. Sean says:
    @Logan

    The original Magic Dirt. West Africa is very fertile and has high rainfall.

  89. guest says:

    Why ecological? Can’t we call it geographical? Or agro-geographical perhaps?

  90. guest says:
    @adreadline

    Have you ever been the subject of a New Yorker article? Do you think she got final editing authority?

    • Replies: @adreadline
  91. Kyle says:

    Jimmy buffets view is the opposite of the author. Mr. Buffet and his legion of fans find that mood increases as one moves in latitude towards the equator.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  92. Sean says:
    @Logan

    http://www.unz.com/pfrost/origins-of-black-africans/

    The ratio of Y chromosome to X chromosome variability is much lower than in other populations, apparently because proportionately fewer men have contributed to the gene pool (Excoffier et al., 1996; Scozzari et al., 1997; Spurdle et al., 1994; Torroni et al., 1990). Generalized polygyny is also attested by reconstruction of proto-Bantu, which was spoken approximately 3,000 years ago and has a specific term for “taking a second wife” (Polome, 1977).

    There is a lot of infidelity.. The key is that not all men get to beget, so the selection is on men. Marriage in Africa is, compared to Europe, low investment and not assumed to be permanent and exclusive. The result of polygyny, low parental investment and doubts over paternity is Africans are continuing to have a lot of children, which the mothers and especially the fathers are not all that worried about.

    One recalls Madonna adopting from an African “orphanage” only to find the parents were alive and well and outraged at any suggestion that they had given up parental rights and failed to discharge their responsibilities by putting the child where he was and not visiting.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2001/jul/25/adoptionandfostering.guardiansocietysupplement

    Losing touch
    Joanna Traynor on the west African families who choose to send their children to private white foster mothers
    Some people call the south London district of Peckham the capital’s “little Lagos”, a bustling, vibrant razzmatazz of African culture and urban stress. Sarah came to England from Nigeria 15 years ago and now owns a hairdressing salon on Peckham High Street, next door to her husband’s mobile phone shop. They are such a busy couple that they have sent the youngest of their four children, four-year-old Julie, to live in Devon with a private foster mother.

  93. @Jonathan Mason

    The Industrial Revolution began in Lancashire, England owing to an abundance of fast flowing streams to drive water wheels (pre steam power) and a damp climate conducive to cotton spinning. The nearby port of Liverpool imported raw cotton from the southern US.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  94. White Americans like to migrate East to West (Manifest Destiny).

    Black Americans like to migrate South to North (Great Migration).

    Mexicans and other Latins are more like Blacks than Whites and like to migrate North from South.

    Contemporary White Southerners see their escape valve as being West to Colorado, Montana etc. and not North to Michigan or whatever.

    I believe that these tendencies are deep rooted and somehow genetic.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  95. Alden says:
    @Skyler_the_Weird

    So did most state capitals close down in summer. The good old days.

  96. Alden says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    So why did Eskimos share wives and why have Scandinavians become the least married people on earth? I believe Iceland is the least married country on earth and that comes from the Viking passing captured Irish slave women around heritage.

  97. @Lot

    The first place to industrialize outside of England itself was Wallonia, right in the middle of the BB, and it spread out from there.

    For what it’s worth, Curly Lambeau, the meat packer who co-founded the football club in Green Bay, was the son of Walloon immigrants. Outside of colleges, the sport was limited to factory teams.

    • Replies: @Lot
  98. sayless says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Among the eastern woodland Indians the war paths ran north-south and the peace paths ran east-west.

    Broadway runs along an old war path, straight up to Albany.

  99. @Reg Cæsar

    I believe Uruguay has the southernmost northernmost point, which is surprising.

    There’s a reason they called it the “Southern Ocean”.

    Flip your globe upside-down. Not a heck of a lot there–expect, bizarrely, at the very top!

  100. NOTA says:
    @Logan

    I think this differed from society to society, and most fathers probably cared at least somewhat about their daughters’ preferences.

  101. HA says:
    @Logan

    “Temujin’s father was murdered by rivals, and Temujin himself murdered his brother while he was still a child. Attila had a similar family history.”

    You may be right, but I would think that gang leaders (which is ultimately what we’re talking about) tend to be outliers in any society, and Temujin and Attila were outliers of outliers. I mean, if we’re going to cherry-pick, I’m pretty sure some of the Scots that the berserkers went after had leaders who were pretty nasty pieces of work as well.

    But in fairness, I should have specified that I was using berserkers and barbarians as metonyms for the larger societies which produced them, and as the commenter Sean noted, what holds for the berserker might not hold for the society as a whole. There’s been some considerable revision by modern historians to the effect that the Vikings were not as bloodthirsty as is sometimes assumed. I suspect these revisionists oftentimes go overboard, and their claims doesn’t square with the accounts of those the berserkers went after, who really did regard them as demonically evil to an extent they had never encountered, but again, those may have been the outliers (and moreover, the people who write history books tend lead relatively sheltered lives compared to the ones who go berserking, so that the monks and scribes who wrote those accounts were perhaps outliers, too, and unfamiliar with what their own gangs and pirates and raiders were willing to do). Finally, to the extent that a society is more individualistic, that tends to widen the extremes of behavior, in that if someone wants to really go nuts — or berserk, as the case may be — he’s more willing to let that freak flag fly. So I still think there may be something to this.

    I should add that the relatively greater degree of individualism presented a recurring problem with Crusader kings (i.e. the Norman descendants of the Vikings) as well. In general, getting them to agree to something was like herding cats, whereas their Saracen opponents were more unified.

    • Replies: @Logan
    , @Logan
  102. @Reg Cæsar

    Norway has the northernmost place with no winter. Rost, Norway is north of the arctic circle, yet doesn’t have a winter despite several days with no sunrise.

  103. Logan says:
    @HA

    You are perhaps quite right. The Normans were an amazing bunch. Lots of people know about their spectacular exploits in England, Italy and the Holy Land. But I’ve recently run across information about similar adventures in Anatolia and Spain, which just didn’t wind up with the Normans involved winning.

  104. Zimriel says:

    Excuse me if this has been commented before, but railway tickets 1849-1909 west and east tended to be one-way. You went west to stay there; or you went back east to REALLY stay back THERE. After the gold-rush era, the West Coast got some institutions worth visiting and returning from, but by that point the aeroplane made the train-system moot for human freight.

    But if you were in St. Louis going up to Chicago (or down to Nawlins), you were probably on business and going back to St. Louis. Trains made sense.

  105. @Logan

    Yeah, I think it is grossly overstated that european fathers gave their daughters to specific preselected guys. Most people were serfs or peasants and there was little at stake in a daughters marriage beyond getting her off the family payroll. She wasn’t much of an asset usually. If anything, picking the guy was done to help the girl before she ended up deflowered by some ne’erdowell. Nobility and royalty were a different matter. They were trying desperately to use marriage to political and dynastic advantage, but even so, they tried to get the girls exited about how great the guy was and how great everything would be blah, blah. They weren’t stupid. They knew it would work better if she were an enthusiastic participant in the plans. Also, it doesn’t take that much hype to get silly young women excited about a guy, especially when she never gets to be around any guys, just old women and her female relatives. I think it was Loius XIV who was 15 when he married his wife aged 16. Queen Victoria was 20 when she married Albert aged 19. Sure, there were limited choices, but not no choices, not typically. Even now, parents try to influence. What kind of cold callous parent does give a rat’s who his kid marries? Ain’t natural. You spend years caring for the kid, you don’t want to see them abused by a rotten spouse.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    , @Logan
  106. @Achmed E. Newman

    Scandinavians from, just say, around Stockholm (60 deg N) settled nicely in the upper Midwest and also in western Washington State (45-49 deg N).

    Uh, they settled there, but it was painful. My norwegian and danish forbears settled in Nebraska and South Dakota where the typical low temps is winter are colder than the record low temps in Stockholm. Nebraska is much much colder than Norway and Denmark. Some years ago a relative spent a year abroad in Denmark and they asked if he thought it cold. He said no because he was from Wisconsin and they asked how cold it got there. Pretty stunned when he answered.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  107. Lot says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Carlton Coon’s book said the generic white American type looks closest to Walloons. I think the idea is you take a British base and mix in some German and a little Slav and Med, that’s what you get. Kind of English but a stronger chin and broader shoulders, and a little darker.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  108. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    C’mon guys! It’s all the Gulf Stream these days!

  109. Lagertha says:

    it is sort of ridiculous to even bring up Arctic culture! Once the world-overlords kill-off the Nordics and Nordic descendants in the Northern States of the USA, humans will die. Our stock survived everything. You kill off the North people, you kill off you and yours. We are still instilled by genes to care about strangers that do not belong to our tribe. So, STFU and support our President. I only care about the economy, the world economy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Lagertha
  110. prosa123 says:
    @Joe Schmoe

    Most people were serfs or peasants and there was little at stake in a daughters marriage beyond getting her off the family payroll. She wasn’t much of an asset usually.

    Not true, she would work on the farm from a very young age. There seems to be a belief that outside of tropical hoe cultures women never did any farm work. I’d say the average young peasant girl 500 years ago could work at a pace that would make 99% of people today drop from exhaustion. She was orders of magnitude tougher than one of today’s urban hipster women who never lifts anything heavier than her venti skinny decaf soy latte.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Logan
  111. Dube says:

    Northward the course of Empire. No salutes? Mmm…southward! Too crowded? Eastward the course of Empire! Doesn’t ring well in English, not eastward. Well, how about westward? Ships and wagons west! Agreed, then? Westward the course of Empire! Put me down for it.

    – George Berkeley

  112. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Kronos

    He looks like George C. Scott playing Patton, and has some tough guy quotes to his name, but how many wars has he won?

    • Replies: @Kronos
  113. Kronos says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    His strategy for defeating Saddam in 2003 worked really well. But the power vacuum let to a long and nasty insurgency.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  114. Logan says:
    @Joe Schmoe

    Nobility and royalty had the greatest issues with who a daughter married, but merchants and even peasants had a great involved also. Political alliances between nations, perhaps ending or preventing a war, are a good deal more important than whether a 15 year old girl will be entirely happy. (It is, BTW, often forgotten that boys did not have a great deal more influence on who they married than girls. Though men were a great deal freer to play around on the side.)

    Even among the lowest classes, forming alliances by marriage was a pretty big deal. In (western) European societies men were unable to marry until they’d acquired enough wealth to finance a home and support the new family. Hajnal line and all that. In many/most the young woman brought a good chunk of wealth with her as a dowry, in fact was generally unable to marry without one, as nobody would want her, regardless of character and beauty, though of course those also played a role. Certainly a big dowry made any woman more desirable.

    The John Wayne movie The Quiet Man pivots around this custom hanging on in Ireland well into the 20th century. Excellent movie, BTW.

    For most convents, a novice had to bring a substantial dowry to be accepted as a sister. Without one she would be at best a servant.

    With all this, arranged marriages seem in general to have been on average at least as successful as “marrying for love.”

    It is odd that some societies used dowry and others bride price, the opposite custom, often without any obvious reason why one instead of the other was used.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  115. Logan says:
    @prosa123

    True, although keeping the peasant home running was a more than full-time job in itself. Outside of peak periods, she probably didn’t work the fields much. For one thing, a woman of the time spent probably most of her adult life either pregnant or nursing.

    Man may work from sun to sun,
    But woman’s work is never done.

    Higher class women were generally equally busy managing a household, which could have hundreds of members, a pretty big job in itself. Oddly, it pretty much was Victorian times before it became a status symbol for the females of the house to be idle and lay around being pretty but incompetent. The idea would have been incomprehensible to a medieval mind. Or King Solomon.

  116. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anon

    Switzerland’s a pretty small country in terms of population, about one tenth the size of Germany, but I think it’s safe to say it’s punched above its weight in a number of fields. The great Portuguese conquerer Afonso de Albuquerque, for example, used Swiss infantry tactics in conquering Malacca. In more recent times, the Swiss produced one of the most influential architects of the 20th century, Le Corbusier; Switzerland is home to CERN, which has the world’s largest particle accelerator; it has Fortune 500 companies such as Nestlé and Novartis; and it produced about 22 Nobel laureates (subtracting ones born elsewhere, like Einstein).

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @Lot
    , @Alden
  117. Logan says:
    @HA

    gang leaders (which is ultimately what we’re talking about) tend to be outliers in any society

    My point is that steppe societies were, more or less by definition, violent gangs. Those who were not promptly got destroyed or swallowed by their neighbors who were.

    The nature of property on the steppe encouraged raiding and war. It was mobile, indeed could be herded away walking on its own feet. The only security was to terrify the neighbors, much like the very gang-like culture that existed on the English-Scottish border for centuries.

    Steppe societies were a lot like the Plains tribes, though with exception of horses those never got into livestock much, with the buffalo a resource making pastoralism unnecessary.

    • Replies: @HA
  118. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @adreadline

    Where do you get the idea she isn’t willing to stand up for herself?

    • Replies: @adreadline
  119. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Kronos

    It was actually a dumb strategy, racing toward Baghdad like it was Berlin in 1945, while leaving huge ammo dumps that were pillaged by future insurgents. A better strategy would have been to bypass Baghdad initially and reduce the Sunni heartland north of it.

    • Replies: @Lot
  120. Lot says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    This is like discussing the best method of performing an unnecessary surgery that will inevitably kill the patient and get the medical license of the surgeon revoked.

    • Agree: Hibernian, Prodigal son
  121. @Ancient Briton

    You forgot the other legs of that southern US to Liverpool ( my native town) .
    Liverpool to West Africa with trinkets, then to US with slaves.

  122. Hibernian says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    “For example, there are no belts that cross the Great Lakes region.”

    Having spent almost my whole life in the Upper Midwest, I know this is not true. The New England / Upstate New York/ Michigan/Wisconsin – Minnesota – Dakotas belt crosses Lake Michigan.

  123. HA says:
    @Logan

    “My point is that steppe societies were, more or less by definition, violent gangs. Those who were not promptly got destroyed or swallowed by their neighbors who were.”

    That is a good point, but it doesn’t necessarily invalidate their overall hypothesis. The SS were known for being pretty brutal, too — in fact, that was something of a job requirement — but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Germans are overall more violent than, say, Sicilians or Yugoslavs or Albanians to the South of them when it comes to violence in general. Even neighboring plains tribes regarded the Comanche as pretty savage regarding their behavior towards outgroups, but the whites they kidnapped and raised as their own (after brutally murdering and perhaps raping their parents) regarded the overall societies as more loving and having a stronger sense of belonging than what they experienced once having been “rescued”. And to the extent that berserker societies were able to be more brutal raiders and pillagers, that is (I’m guessing) partly due to their willingness to cooperate with each other as brothers in arms, as dictated by their overall societal norms.

    Or consider again what I said about how more individuality may well increase the standard deviation of behavior and recall the point that gets mentioned in IQ discussions about how despite the somewhat lower average IQ that Caucasians have, they still might be more likely to win more Nobel prizes simply because their standard deviation of IQ’s seems to be larger.

    In general, what one sees at the tails of a distribution isn’t always indicative of how the means compare, especially when there are differences in individuality (i.e. changes in standard deviation).

    • Replies: @Logan
  124. @SFG

    As you go further south in Russia, you get into the Caucasus, a famously volatile (“restive”?) region. As for China, aside from the millet-rice N-S cultural divide among the otherwise homogeneous Han, the persistent theme of their history from ancient times has been getting invaded by war-like pastoral horsemen tribes from the north–whence the Great Wall (to block them) and the Silk Road (to trade Chinese silk for Fergama Valley horses to defend themselves).

    As for South America, while there’s a lot of latitude within Chile and Argentina, the major climatic, cultural, and enthic divide is between the southern cone as a whole (including Uruguay), and the tropical rest.

  125. @Joe Schmoe

    Indeed, the upper Midwest is brutal, Joe. I wonder if these immigrants really knew what they were in for. I guess “nicely” was not the right word, referring to the upper Midwest.

    In the Pacific NW, though, the climate and scenery resemble the coast of Norway pretty well.

  126. @Kyle

    It’s always fun if you don’t have to live there. The American dollar is still king, but that won’t last forever. People that have just come up from vacation in the islands (and great The Office take on that too!) remark on how laid back and relaxing it is down there. Sure, that’s fine on your vacation, but that’s how life is there all the time, and that’s why nothing works well.

    Yeah, that’s how latitude matters, and as far as longitude, well, it’s 5 O’clock somewhere.

  127. @Anon

    Switzerland is a fine place, but how does it represent a “peak”? It played no outstanding role in the various European cultural and technical movements throughout history.

    Indirectly, via Calvin. He put fire to the feet of those Dutch, Scots, and Puritans!

    Orson Welles’s notorious ad-lib (don’t blame Greene) about Swiss achievement:

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @Dissident
    , @Logan
  128. Feryl says:
    @Anonymous

    I’m pretty sure that a big reason Mediterraneans feared the Germanic tribes was because the “barbarians” were extremely well-built. Northern Europeans and Sub-Saharan Africans dominate athletic competitions.

  129. Feryl says:
    @Lot

    Most of the Midwest and South have relatively little Italian (or Greek, or Spanish) heritage. To the extent that there is any, it’s been blended into the Celtic/Germanic/Slavic base. Whereas the Northeast has a lot more whites who clearly have a substantial amount of Southern Euro DNA.

    I suspect that “averaging” out white American phenotype would re-inforce the cultural identities that each region is already known to have; the South is non-Teutonic British and Celtic, the upper Midwest is heavily Teutonic (including the quasi-Danish sort of Brits) and somewhat Slavic. The lower Midwest is genetically and culturally between the South and Upper Midwest. And the Northeast is very Irish-Catholic, Jewish, and Italian, with some Slavic thrown in; the last remnants of Puritan (e.g. Teutonic) Brits can be seen in some of Upper New England.

    Kind of English but a stronger chin and broader shoulders, and a little darker.

    Pallor and skin cancer is the most common among the Celts who settled the South, Appalachia, and among the similar whites who settled the interior Western US, aside from Utah (which has been dominated by Puritan Brits who aren’t really Celtic at all).

    • Replies: @Ancient Briton
  130. Feryl says:
    @James Braxton

    People, if given the option to go elsewhere, will generally not go to the Midwest*. The winters are dreadful, there are no major mountain ranges, and inter-continental travel is more difficult. “Good weather” is generally code for little to no snow in the winter, and that’s why so many people have been moving to Texas. People also like the scenery and skiing provided by Western mountain ranges. The mean point of US population has been drifting further South and West ever since the 1950’s, when air conditioning made the South more livable, and water engineering systems were developed to make the Western US more livable

    *except for African and Muslim immigrants that the globalists have shoved into the Midwest. And people in California have the nerve to complain about Mexicans?

  131. A 2015 Afternoon Map at Mental Floss shows the top source of legal immigrants, other than Mexico, for each state:

    • Replies: @Flip
    , @Jonathan Mason
  132. Flip says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Interesting about all the Burmese. And Bhutanese in North Dakota?

  133. bomag says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    And they gave us Leonard Euler, who probably advanced mathematics more than any other single person.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  134. @Reg Cæsar

    Interesting that Indians predominate in several states and that the whole North Florida has a significant population of Chinese.

    North Florida has Chinese restaurants dotted around, but hardly any Indian restaurants. Wish we could get some more Indians like the rest of the South.

    The color scheme for this map is diabolical, and it is very hard to interpret.

    South Florida is shown as full of Cubans, but in the winter time it is full of Canadian snowbirds who are not permanent residents. We have a few Cuban restaurants, but I have never seen a Canadian one. The closest thing is that Aldi has a “Hawaiian” pizza with pineapple and Canadian bacon toppings.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Jack D
    , @Reg Cæsar
  135. People, if given the option to go elsewhere, will generally not go to the Midwest*. The winters are dreadful, there are no major mountain ranges, and inter-continental travel is more difficult.

    I have been to Terre Haute, Indiana–24 hours drive from Florida up US 41.

    Once you have seen the federal prison where Timothy McVeigh was executed, and the guy selling catfish from the Wabash river, you have pretty much seen it all.

    The midwest is a kind of living museum of America. They grow corn there and have diners.

  136. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @pyrrhus

    The main effect of latitude is that evolutionary Northerners are invariably more intelligent than those in more southerly latitudes….

    Why?

  137. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lagertha

    it is sort of ridiculous to even bring up Arctic culture! Once the world-overlords kill-off the Nordics and Nordic descendants in the Northern States of the USA, humans will die. Our stock survived everything. You kill off the North people, you kill off you and yours. We are still instilled by genes to care about strangers that do not belong to our tribe. So, STFU and support our President. I only care about the economy, the world economy.

    What are you trying to say here?

  138. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    North Florida has Chinese restaurants dotted around, but hardly any Indian restaurants. Wish we could get some more Indians like the rest of the South.

    Learn to cook. It isn’t that difficult.

  139. BB753 says:

    So Diamond was on to something, after all?

  140. Alden says:
    @Logan

    So did Genghis Khan. Warlord father died when he was 9. Uncle became the next warlord. The tribe dumped his father’s widow and her 4 or 5 young children out to die in the middle of winter.

    They survived somehow. Mother emphasized revenge revenge revenge. Genghis got revenge.

    His and his predecessor mongols drove the Muslim Turks west to destroy S E Europe and menace W Europe for centuries.

  141. Lot says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    And Leo Euler, the only man to have his initial on every scientific calculator.

  142. Alden says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Corbusier is not a person to brag about.

  143. Mark G. says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    In a late life interview, Welles said that for years after he made the remark about the Swiss only inventing the cuckoo clock he had angry Austrians coming up to him and telling him they invented the cuckoo clock.

  144. @Feryl

    I live in Massachusetts. It seems every other person I chat to had ancesters who arrived on the Mayflower – that little ship must have been very crowed!

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Feryl
  145. Pls fix typos: ancestors & crowded

  146. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    We have a few Cuban restaurants, but I have never seen a Canadian one

    That’s because Canadian cuisine doesn’t really exist. It is largely indistinguishable from American cuisine, just as Canadian English is largely indistinguishable from American English. They play up the few minor differences because if they didn’t then they wouldn’t have a national identity at all.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  147. @Jack D

    You might expect that the Quebecois would have a bit of culinary expertise. I enjoy a plateful of poutine now and again, but hard to find around here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poutine

    • Replies: @Jack D
  148. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I’m told by those with a right to make such comments that whatever her repulsive political proclivities, Jane was the finest POA in Hollywood since Doris Day aged out of the market.

  149. Swede55 says:
    @Logan

    No domesticated animals suitable for plowing.

    • Replies: @Logan
  150. Jack D says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    The Quebecois lack both a language and a culture. “Poutine” (a disgusting dish) is a badly mauled rendition of the English word “pudding”. It’s easy to mistake the Quebecois for white Europeans but they are just a colonial remnant abandoned by the motherland. Think of them as white Puerto Ricans.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Dave Pinsen
  151. Lot says:
    @Jack D

    I wouldn’t phrase it so harshly, but French-Canadian Americans do underperform other northern USA whites.

    Around here high end “comfort food” started being a trend around 2008 and it is fairly common to see poutine on menus at restaurants with average entree prices in the 20s.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  152. Dissident says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Anyone familiar with the The Lives of Harry Lime radio series?

    The Adventures of Harry Lime (broadcast in the United States as The Lives of Harry Lime) is an old-time radio programme produced in the United Kingdom during the 1951 to 1952 season. Orson Welles reprises his role of Harry Lime from the celebrated 1949 film The Third Man. The radio series is a prequel to the film, and depicts the many misadventures of con-artist Lime in a somewhat lighter tone than that of the film.

    (Wikipedia)

    A lot of fun!

    Incidentally, could be quite the sanctimonious Goodwhite scold. Listen to some of the history features he did on radio to see what I mean.

  153. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    French-Canadians with much on the ball tended to learn English and become part of Western Canada or the US as times permitted. Many were superb machinists, toolmakers, other tradesmen. Those who stayed French had less on the ball, on average.

    Also, the sharper ones had fewer kids and the dumber ones more. Idiocracy in practice.
    Still, if one speaks French, Quebec may turn out to be a safe haven of sorts when the shit hits the fan.
    I’m told that if one speaks correct (ie, French as in France, with minimal accent) French, one gets the “Englishman in America” effect and worked correctly that can be a leg up. They are self conscious of the deviancy of their French, despite protestations to the contrary.

  154. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @bomag

    I think about him every time I drive over a suspension bridge. Great mathematician, but that may overstate the case slightly. Gauss is usually considered the greatest mathematician of the era.

  155. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jack D

    IIRC, HBD Chick wrote that they didn’t come from the highest achieving stock in France.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  156. Lot says:
    @Ancient Briton

    The probably are correct. The early Puritan settlers had some of the most rapid natural population growth in history.

  157. @Ancient Briton

    I live in Massachusetts. It seems every other person I chat to had ancestors who arrived on the Mayflower – that little ship must have been very crowded!

    Are You One of 35 Million Mayflower Descendants? Here’s How to Find Out

    Apparently I descend from a passenger on the Fortune, the second ship, which arrived the next year. Missing the boat is in my DNA!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  158. NickG says:

    I’ve been walking in the mountains of the Drakensburg in the Mont-aux-Sources (10,700 ft), Cathedral peak and into Lesotho, they really are beautiful and dramatic. You have to a bit careful of the occasional local Sotho herders, though I never personally had any problems. These chaps tend not to be on the highest plateaus and I made sure not to be observed pitching camp, which is not difficult.

    In the winter in gets cold up there — south of -20°c (-4°f). In the Summer sunburn can be a problem because of the vicious UV.

    These mountains — an area known as The Amphitheatre — form a dramatic backdrop to the 1960s movie Zulu with Michael Caine which was shot on location— and not alot of people know that!

    Lesotho borders on Natal province — now Kwa Zulu Natal — in South Africa. The actual 1879 Anglo Zulu war battles — Isandlwana and Rorke’s Drift — were fought about 20 miles further East.

    As a bonus, the famous 2nd Boer war battle of Spion Kop (spy hill) was also fought nearby in Jan 1900. This was a British defeat. The Brits — under General Sir Redvers Buller attempting to relieve the besieged town of Ladysmith. Famously there were 3 future prime ministers present at the battle — Winston Churchill as a reporter, Mohandas Gandhi — then a young lawyer heading up an Indian stretcher bearer contingent, serving the British and General Louis Botha, the Boer commander — later to become South Africa’s first prime minister after the formation of the country in 1910 with the union of British Natal, Cape Colony and Afrikaner republics of Transvaal and the Orange Free State.

  159. @Logan

    It is odd that some societies used dowry and others bride price, the opposite custom, often without any obvious reason why one instead of the other was used.

    Excellent point. Jane Austen seems to have started the nonsense in England with her idea that handsome rich men would marry poor women with no dowry for their accomplishments, wit and the content of their character–probably wishful thinking on her part.

    In a settler society like the US, it is more likely that there was a demand for fertile women with practical household and farming skills during the same time period, and sex roles became so blurred that when the right technology came along, many wanted to turn into men, or facsimiles thereof.

    And a moment later, out from the door of the farmhouse came a long file of pigs, all walking on their hind legs. Some did it better than others, one or two were even a trifle unsteady and looked as though they would have liked the support of a stick, but every one of them made his way right round the yard successfully. And finally there was a tremendous baying of dogs and a shrill crowing from the black cockerel, and out came Napoleon himself, majestically upright, casting haughty glances from side to side, and with his dogs gamboling round him.

    He carried a whip in his trotter…

    No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

    [Animal Farm]

  160. @guest

    No, I have not. And if I were ever notable enough to be, I might not want to, since apparently they can get away with distorting the interviewee’s positions as they wish, possibly making it counterproductive to accept the interview. I’m new to how things work in journalism.

    • Replies: @guest
  161. @Dave Pinsen

    I believe time will tell. If that interview stands with that title, then either she didn’t stand up for herself or there’s indeed nothing she could do about it. Is it standard practice, in the United States, for the interviewee to have no say in how he’s described? If I were to interview you, could I claim you hold views you don’t, and there’d be nothing you could do about it?

  162. Feryl says:
    @Ancient Briton

    The average Southern and Midwestern white person has more Northern European DNA than the average Northeastern white person. That’s the point I was trying to make. The Jews and Italians left a major genetic imprint on the region in the late 19th and early 20th century.

  163. @Jonathan Mason

    South Florida is shown as full of Cubans, but in the winter time it is full of Canadian snowbirds who are not permanent residents.

    Ontarians follow Midwesterners to the Gulf Coast, while Quebeckers take to the Atlantic like Long Islanders. I’m not sure, though, if they were following the Blue Jays and Expos, or the other way around.

  164. Jack D says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The French approach to colonialism was pretty much opposite to the English approach. The English idea was to get rid of all their religious non-conformists, criminals, etc. by shipping them to the colonies – these often turned out to be the most dynamic people if not necessarily the most law abiding.

    The French idea was to keep a lid on everything in the colonies and have it all run under the supervision of the church. They didn’t really succeed in attracting a lot of people that way. Of the few that they did, the ones with more initiative tended to “go native” by becoming fur trappers and living among the Indians in the wilderness, where there were not too many priests poking around about which Indian maidens you were or were not sleeping with and whether you had been going to mass regularly. So the selection for the ones who stayed in town was for “don’t ask too many questions and do as you are told” types. They turned out to be an ok workforce for the old New England mills, but they were the kind of folks who WORKED in the mill, not the ones who stole the plans from England and built the mills. Similar to African Americans and the Amish, the # that were imported was not that big – todays millions are descended from a relatively small handful.

  165. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    How many of those 35 million still live in New England? It’s my impression that when the Great Plains opened up, a lot of the New England farmers threw in the towel on their rocky farm fields and moved to Kansas. If you hike in New England you see abandoned stone fences all over in the woods which are former farm fields gone back to forest.

  166. guest says:
    @adreadline

    My general rule would be not to talk to journalists, not that they’re kicking in my door. Because in the off chance they don’t lir , distort, and demonize, what’s the upside? You’re giving them material to feed upon so they can be healthy enough to go destroy others.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  167. How many of those 35 million still live in New England?

    Quite a few, in rural areas and small towns. They’ve just been outnumbered.

    It’s my impression that when the Great Plains opened up, a lot of the New England farmers threw in the towel on their rocky farm fields and moved to Kansas.

    New York, Michigan, northern Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, and even the Pacific Northwest came before, or at the same time, as Kansas, where the settlement was political. New Englanders had been moving west for generations.

    And not all at once. During “Michigan fever”, 85% of that state’s new settlers came from upstate New York. But their parents or grandparents had mostly left New England.

    When you have twelve kids, and eight leave the state, you still have growth at home.

  168. @guest

    Or bring your own video camera.

  169. @The Alarmist

    Austin hasn’t been weird for 35+ years.

  170. @Skyler_the_Weird

    It was a help that in the days pre air conditioning Congress shut down for the Summer and nothing got done from June to September.

    Right. Congress used to declare itself in Emergency Session if the session lasted into August.

  171. Lagertha says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    it was the purpose of the film location of The Prisoner to warn us about assholes

  172. Lagertha says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    White is not an ethnic group nor even a race. There are 25 indigenous groups of white races in Scandinavia and Europe.

  173. J.Ross says:
    @Anon

    Because of their political system doing America better than America.

  174. There are countries that appear to be excessively wide from east to west to be cohesive, such as 800-mile wide Ukraine. Are you kidding ? not Russia? hands-off Ukraine swine!

  175. Logan says:
    @Swede55

    I don’t think so. Xhosa and Zulu economy was based on cattle.

  176. Logan says:
    @HA

    All good points.

    And to the extent that berserker societies were able to be more brutal raiders and pillagers, that is (I’m guessing) partly due to their And to the extent that berserker societies were able to be more brutal raiders and pillagers, that is (I’m guessing) partly due to their willingness to cooperate with each other as brothers in arms, as dictated by their overall societal norms., as dictated by their overall societal norms.

    Read up on Viking history. Not exactly big on “willingness to cooperate with each other as brothers in arms.”

    The Vikings were of course not a people, they were a profession. Raiders.

  177. Logan says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Uhh. Switzerland did not have 500 years of democracy and peace. Indeed for much of the early modern period they primarily made a living by being the most effective mercenary soldiers of all. Resulting in the massacre of the Swiss Guard in the French Revolution, the only group to remain loyal to the King, and even today the Swiss Guard of the Pope.

    The Swiss mercenaries were notorious for being utterly merciless. No quarter.

  178. Lagertha says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    J’Adore Amy! Women who are ball breakers are to be admired, especially, when they fight for all things rational to nurture human life and survival.

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