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Caldwell on "Finis Germania"
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From the NYT:

Germany’s Newest Intellectual Antihero
By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL JULY 8, 2017

After the German historian Rolf Peter Sieferle took his own life last September at age 67, Süddeutsche Zeitung, the country’s progressive paper of record, called his erudition “breathtaking.” …

But last month, a posthumous collection of Mr. Sieferle’s observations on Germany’s political culture, “Finis Germania” (the title plays on a phrase meaning “the end of Germany”), hit No. 9 on the prestigious Nonfiction Book of the Month list — and a scandal erupted. Certain passages on Germany’s way of dealing with the Holocaust horrified reviewers. Die Zeit called it a book of “brazen obscenity.” The Berliner Zeitung wrote of Mr. Sieferle’s “intellectual decline.” Süddeutsche Zeitung retracted its earlier praise. The Nonfiction Book of the Month list was suspended until further notice.

The book-buying public reacted otherwise. …

Germans buy a lot of books.

A socialist in his youth like most German intellectuals of the 1968 generation, Mr. Sieferle was drifting out of sync with that tradition by the 1990s. He came increasingly to aim his sarcasm at naïve idealists. At the height of Germany’s refugee crisis two summers ago, he wrote, “A society that can no longer distinguish between itself and the forces that would dissolve it is living morally beyond its means.” …

In “Finis Germania,” Mr. Sieferle rues that his own country is “tragic,” tangled up in history. He doesn’t just rue it, he resents it. “There are un-tragic peoples,” he writes, “whom history pearls off of like water from a well-polished boot.” He means the English and Americans, who have always tried to pass off their oligarchies as cradles of democracy.

Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history.

… But Mr. Sieferle is critical of Germany’s postwar culture of Holocaust memory, which he argues has taken on the traits of a religion. The country’s sins are held to be unique and absolute, beyond either redemption or comparison. “The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ” Hitler, in retrospect, turns out to have done a paradoxical thing: He bound Germans and Jews together in a narrative for all time. In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.

… It is linked to his concern, in “Das Migrationsproblem,” with the challenges of mass migration. He believed that Germany’s self-demonization had left it unable to say anything but yes to a million or so migrants seeking entry to Europe in 2015 and that such a welcome was unsustainable.

Christopher Caldwell, a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, is at work on a book about the rise and fall of the post-1960s political order.

 
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  1. Pretty remarkable piece, and quite a conclusion as well:

    Whatever becomes of Mr. Sieferle’s reputation, the scandal around him reveals certain unsuspected problems. When the German literary establishment unanimously denounced Mr. Sieferle’s work as an extremist tract, readers did not nod in agreement. They pulled out their wallets and said, “That must be the book for me.” This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels, possibly American ones.

    The horror..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Germans like to get a lot of light reading done on their Titanic cruise. Mr. Sailer:

    Thilo Sarrazin, author of the 2010 megaselling book Germany Abolishes Itself, has a new #1 bestseller in Germany, Wishful Thinking
     
    A Greek-German policewoman wrote a book a couple of years ago about having to deal with Muslim criminals that became a bestseller.
    , @eah
    This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels,...

    Sarrazin's books have always sold very well -- eg his book 'Deutschland schafft sich ab' was the bestselling book on amazon.de in 2010.

    On the German language Wikipedia page about Sieferle it says: Das Buch wurde auf der Juni-Liste der „Sachbücher des Monats“ von NDR und der Süddeutschen Zeitung aufgeführt -- his book was put on suggested non-fiction reading lists for June by the newspaper Süddeutschen Zeitung and NDR -- NDR = Norddeutscher Rundfunk, one of the state funded broadcasters (it is based in Hamburg), ie it's basically a Staatsorgan -- so establishment opinion about Sieferle does not seem unanimous.

    , @Dieter Kief
    I agree, Caldwell's article is spot on.

    And with blogger Michael Klonovsky (his great (!) blog is called "acta diurna" and features some of Sieferle's really interesting and important writing), Caldwell hints at a nowadays leading German intellectual, which in itself is a real achievement. I'd say: I'm surprised to read this piece by Caldwell in the NYT. Big surprise - and very welcome indeed!

    This article is remarkable too, because Calwell's view of Sieferele's Migration-critique is not only correct (I've read all of Sieferle's articles and both of his books on this subject), but also a harsh critique of the German mainstream-reception of Sieferle's thoughts, which was completely repudiant. Be it in Die Zeit, Süddeutsche (Munich) , Frankfurter Rundschau, Frankfurter Allgemeine or Der Spiegel.
    Der Spiegel ran three (!) articles against Sieferele, one dumber than the other; dito. Die Zeit and the FAZ.

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski, both cited by Caldwell. I count myself in, I've even written in comments on this blog in defence of Sieferle, but on quite a few German blogs too: For example in the comments on the FAZ blog of Don Alphonso, on perlentaucher and the Berlin blog aisthesis.

    , @Rifleman

    Germans buy a lot of books.
     
    But they don't make a lot of babies. And that is that.

    “Finis Germania”
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  2. Caldwell’s great.

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    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    oneeyed:

    I agree that Caldwell is great, despite the fact that he is associated with the neocon Weekly Standard and being a Harvard grad.

    Perhaps some of the innate conservative grittiness of his late father-in-law Bob Novak rubbed off and keeps coming to the fore.

    More than a few years ago he had a NYT article which perceptively described the spiritual devastation of modern day Ireland.

  3. Die Zeit called it a book of “brazen obscenity.” The Berliner Zeitung wrote of Mr. Sieferle’s “intellectual decline.” Süddeutsche Zeitung retracted its earlier praise. The Nonfiction Book of the Month list was suspended until further notice.

    The harder leftist Germans try to not be like Hitler, the more like Hitler they become. That’s because we live in Paradox World.

    https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/g20/2010/06/29/calls_for_g20_inquiry_ratchet_up/g20_protests_turnugly.jpeg

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    • Replies: @jmo

    The harder leftist Germans try to not be like Hitler, the more like Hitler they become. That’s because we live in Paradox World.
     
    Or maybe the racist Churchill was on to something, since he believed Prussians had a "war gene," that could never be eliminated, and the only answer to the German expansionism problem once and for all was mass extermination of Germans.

    Many other brits in power agreed at the time. When Churchill was once asked why he had pulled back on the heavy bombing of German civilians for a period in favor of bombing military targets, Churchill responded, "Always remember, business before pleasure."

    One of Hitler's blunders was not understanding this, which was why he didn't respond militarily in kind during months of Churchill's initial civilian carpet bombing, and why he let the brits get away at Dunkirk. For most of the war, he believed the British would agree to a truce, to allow him to finish off the Russians. That notion was never listed in Churchill's daytimer. Hitler, for too long, asked the wrong questions, because of incorrect assumptions.

    "That idiot Churchill expects me to surrender???"

    No. He doesn't.

    https://youtu.be/Mx9z99YJ_7s?t=36s

    , @anonymous
    As such they march in lockstep with the SJWs in America who, in the name of stomping out all traces of "fascism" they become fascists themselves. Recall the Michael Cordeleone character in the movie Godfather I who said to his fiancee (after telling her how her father threatened to have someone killed) "I'm not my father" but winds up (in Godfather II ) to be far worse than his father ever was.

    All of life is a paradox and can only be understood with that notion in mind.

  4. Speaking of ‘finis’:

    Bundesregierung: Bis zu 300.000 Migranten durch Familiennachzug – Die Visa sind erteilt — As many as 300k more migrants are expected in Germany due to family reunification visas.

    Städtebund will Wohnungsreserve für Migranten – Flüchtlingszahlen könnten wieder deutlich ansteigen — It is recommended that cities and communities be prepared for another large increase in ‘refugee’ numbers by maintaining a large reserve of living quarters.

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  5. The article lacks relevant background. The book did not enter the readers list because of its success on the market, the list is made up by a jury allocating points. One jury member, Johannes Saltzwedel, abused the rules and for three month in a row awarded all his points to this book. He had to resign from the Jury. The book was only sold following the abuse of position in the jury. It did not create any significant public discussion beyond this. The list and it’s review system are being adapted. For example http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/sachbuch-liste-empfehlung-nach-punkten-1.3541949 or http://www.boersenblatt.net/artikel-kritik_an_der_jury_der__sachbuecher_des_monats_.1340936.html or http://www.juedische-allgemeine.de/mobile/article-view?id=29006

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    • Replies: @El Dato
    Oy!

    Auf Platz neun der Liste mit Sachbuch-Empfehlungen von NDR und SZ steht das Buch eines rechtsradikalen Verlags, das Pamphlet "Finis Germania" des 2016 verstorbenen Historikers Rolf Peter Sieferle. Warum?
     
    So the book has been issued by a "right-wing radical" publisher. That's bad!

    Der Verlag ist Teil der organisatorischen Infrastruktur der extremen Rechten in Deutschland, sein Geschäftsführer Götz Kubitschek zugleich Mitbegründer des in Schnellroda ansässigen "Instituts für Staatspolitik", Redakteur der Zeitschrift Sezession und Redner auf Pegida-Veranstaltungen.
     
    The publisher is part of the organisational infrastrukture of the German extreme right. Manager Götz Kubitschek is both co-founder of the "Institute for State Politics" in Schnellroda, editor of the newspaper "Sezession" and speaker at Pegida meetings.

    Probably looks like a smug frog, too.


    Auf den ersten und zweiten Platz der Juni-Liste hat die Jury im Juni Ulrike Guérots "Der neue Bürgerkrieg. Das offene Europa und seine Feinde" sowie Georg Seeßlens "Trump! POPulismus als Politik" gesetzt, auf Platz 3 Dieter Borchmeyers "Was ist deutsch? Die Suche einer Nation nach sich selbst." Ein "Atlas der Umweltmigration" und das jüngste Buch von Michael Lüders zum Syrien-Konflikt verstärken die Konzentration der Liste auf Bücher, die das Entstehen von und den Umgang mit Populismus behandeln, aber auch Debatten um aktuelle Migrationsbewegungen.
     
    So for June, the books on the list are as follows:

    - "The new civil war. Open Europe and its enemies" by Ulrike Guérots
    - "Trump! POPulism as politics" by Georg Seeßlens
    - "What is german? A nation in search of itself" by Dieter Borchmeyer
    - "Atlas of world migrations"
    - Some book about the "conflict" in Syria by Michael Lüders

    The booklist thus focuses on the subjects of the rise and handling of populism but also current debates regarding migration.

    I think books with titles like "What is german? A nation in search of itself" have reliably been on these lists since the 50s. Does "The German Question" by Wilhelm Röpke count? Then since the 40s (but published from Switzerland for evident reasons).

    We further read that

    "Andreas Wang (NDR), jury member and editor in charge, tells SZ that the jury calls on the anonymous vote-stuffing member to hand in his or her resignation and on other jury members to refuse working with said member."

    In cauda purgatorium:


    Anmerkung der Redaktion: Inzwischen ist bekannt, wer "Finis Germania" auf die Sachbuch-Empfehlungsliste setzen ließ: Es handelt sich um den Spiegel-Redakteur Johannes Saltzwedel. Dieser hat am Montag seinen Rücktritt aus der Jury bekannt gegeben. In einer Erklärung gab Saltzwedel an, er habe "bewusst ein sehr provokantes Buch" zur Diskussion bringen wollen: "Sieferles Aufzeichnungen sind die eines final Erbitterten, gewollt riskant formuliert in aphoristischer Zuspitzung. Man möchte über jeden Satz mit dem Autor diskutieren, so dicht und wütend schreibt er." Die SZ stellt die Veröffentlichung der Liste "Sachbücher des Monats", die sie bislang gemeinsam mit dem NDR präsentiert hat, ein. Auch NDR Kultur setzt die Zusammenarbeit mit der Jury aus.
     
    Update: It is now know that Johannes Saltzwedel, editor of the Spiegel (weekly flagship fat mag of tedious and exhausting left-wing malcontentism and repetitive memento Hitleris (ed.)) did the deed. Saltzwedel explains that he "intentionally" wanted to raise awareness regarding a "controversial book". He is cited: "Seferles writings are those of a terminally embiterred man, consciously formulated in a daring style, with aphoristic extremes. One would like to discuss every single phrase with the author, such is the writing's rage and density." SZ has stopped publishing the list "nonfiction books of the month", which up to now has been presented together with Norddeutscher Rundfunk (NDR). NDR also has discontinued any work with the jury.
  6. This is the same Christopher Caldwell who reviewed We Wanted Workers by George Borjas, I presume.

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  7. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Hockamaw
    Pretty remarkable piece, and quite a conclusion as well:

    Whatever becomes of Mr. Sieferle’s reputation, the scandal around him reveals certain unsuspected problems. When the German literary establishment unanimously denounced Mr. Sieferle’s work as an extremist tract, readers did not nod in agreement. They pulled out their wallets and said, “That must be the book for me.” This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels, possibly American ones.
     
    The horror..

    The Germans like to get a lot of light reading done on their Titanic cruise. Mr. Sailer:

    Thilo Sarrazin, author of the 2010 megaselling book Germany Abolishes Itself, has a new #1 bestseller in Germany, Wishful Thinking

    A Greek-German policewoman wrote a book a couple of years ago about having to deal with Muslim criminals that became a bestseller.

    Read More
  8. concerning migration and the whole problem with violent black / muslim expansion Germany is STILL better off than UK, France or the USA. So it makes no sense to search for special reasons for what happened in Germany in the last few years. It is the same in all western countries, and it certainly has nothing to do with WW II, as both winners and losers of this war now face the same problems.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sid
    Right. As a counterexample, you'd think that America's long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a "nation of immigrants," and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.

    And yes, the globalists do use those arguments here. Then they go ahead and use different arguments for why Europeans must take in an unlimited number of Africans and Muslims. After all, Britain and France have a history of colonialism or something.

    Then you look at countries like Sweden, which has a rather slim history of migration, not much colonialism beyond the Baltic, was neutral during WWII, and wasn't involved in the War in Iraq. But they still are expected to take in the entire population of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Nigeria.

    Different arguments. Different words. Same pattern. Same results.
    , @fnn

    and it certainly has nothing to do with WW II
     
    Not true:
    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/secret-of-anti-americanism.html

    First, I believe anti-Americanism is best described as an epiphenomenon of Universalism. The single most significant fact about the world today is that sixty-two years ago it was conquered by a military alliance whose leader was the United States, and whose creed of battle was this nontheistic adaptation of New England mainline Protestantism. I don't think it's a coincidence that the European ruling class holds essentially the same perspectives that were held at Harvard in 1945. The US Army did not shoot all the professors in Europe and replace them with Yankee carpetbaggers, but the prestige of conquest is such that it might as well have.
     
    http://conswede.blogspot.com/2008/07/social-paradigms-shift-eg-our-view-on.html

    To illustrate what I talk about. Louis Armstrong visited Sweden in 1933. In all the news papers he was describe as something monkey-like let loose from the jungle. All across the line! And in the reviews by the most serious music critics.

    Who would have imagined in 1933, that twelve years later Western Europe would undergo an America-led cultural revolution which would lead to the common belief that there are no differences between races?

    Translation of two of the quotes:

    Knut Bäck in Göteborgs-Posten, November 1933:
    "This world is strange... No protests are raised against how the jungle is let loose into the society. Armstrong and his band are allowed to freely wreak destruction."

    Sten Broman in Sydsvenskan, November 1933:
    "Dare I say that he at times had something monkey-like about him and sometimes reminded of, according to our perceptions, a mentally disturbed person, when he pouted with his mouth or gaped it to its widest open and roared like a hoarse animal from a primeval forest."

    The third quote compares the concert with a natural disaster, and Armstrong's trumpet with a hell machine. The only good thing coming out of it, he says, is that it solves to old dispute of whether monkeys have a language.

    This is what Europe looked like, up until 1945. And since some people will live under the misconception that this was a phenomenon of the '30s, I here provide a quote from the Swedish Encyclopedia, Nordisk Familjebok, the 1876-1899 edition (here and here).

    "Psychologically the negro can be said be on the level of a child, with vivid fantasy, lack of endurance, ... can be said to lack morality rather than being immoral ... etc."

    Even though the point here has been to illustrate how social paradigms can shift completely in short time (and this is just one out of numerous examples), let me add how up until 1945 all the focus was put on the differences between races, and after that all the focus has been put on what is equal (while ignoring differences). Let's see if the next shift means a synthesis of the two extremes. Will people be able to keep two thoughts in their minds at the same time?
     
    , @SMK
    The governing-classes and ruling-elites of Germany are ruining the country because of guilt over Hitler and Nazism and the holocaust. The governing-classes and ruling-elites of the UK and France are ruining their nations because of guilt over slavery and colonialism. The governing-classes and ruling-elites of the U.S. are ruining the country because of guilt over slavery and segregation and, to a lesser degree, the dispossession and "genocide" of "native-Americans." And in the U.S., far more so than in the UK and France, the influence and power of Jews is crucial in "electing a new people" and creating a nonwhite-majority country, both as a strategy to prevent the rise of a Nazi-like regimes and as vengance against while gentiles for Nazism and the holocaust and for centuries of Christian anti-Jewish discrimination.
  9. @Hockamaw
    Pretty remarkable piece, and quite a conclusion as well:

    Whatever becomes of Mr. Sieferle’s reputation, the scandal around him reveals certain unsuspected problems. When the German literary establishment unanimously denounced Mr. Sieferle’s work as an extremist tract, readers did not nod in agreement. They pulled out their wallets and said, “That must be the book for me.” This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels, possibly American ones.
     
    The horror..

    This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels,…

    Sarrazin’s books have always sold very well — eg his book ‘Deutschland schafft sich ab’ was the bestselling book on amazon.de in 2010.

    On the German language Wikipedia page about Sieferle it says: Das Buch wurde auf der Juni-Liste der „Sachbücher des Monats“ von NDR und der Süddeutschen Zeitung aufgeführt — his book was put on suggested non-fiction reading lists for June by the newspaper Süddeutschen Zeitung and NDR — NDR = Norddeutscher Rundfunk, one of the state funded broadcasters (it is based in Hamburg), ie it’s basically a Staatsorgan — so establishment opinion about Sieferle does not seem unanimous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @eah
    And speaking of state funded broadcasters:

    https://twitter.com/JayMan471/status/883186526766718977
  10. @J1234

    Die Zeit called it a book of “brazen obscenity.” The Berliner Zeitung wrote of Mr. Sieferle’s “intellectual decline.” Süddeutsche Zeitung retracted its earlier praise. The Nonfiction Book of the Month list was suspended until further notice.
     
    The harder leftist Germans try to not be like Hitler, the more like Hitler they become. That's because we live in Paradox World.

    https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/g20/2010/06/29/calls_for_g20_inquiry_ratchet_up/g20_protests_turnugly.jpeg

    The harder leftist Germans try to not be like Hitler, the more like Hitler they become. That’s because we live in Paradox World.

    Or maybe the racist Churchill was on to something, since he believed Prussians had a “war gene,” that could never be eliminated, and the only answer to the German expansionism problem once and for all was mass extermination of Germans.

    Many other brits in power agreed at the time. When Churchill was once asked why he had pulled back on the heavy bombing of German civilians for a period in favor of bombing military targets, Churchill responded, “Always remember, business before pleasure.”

    One of Hitler’s blunders was not understanding this, which was why he didn’t respond militarily in kind during months of Churchill’s initial civilian carpet bombing, and why he let the brits get away at Dunkirk. For most of the war, he believed the British would agree to a truce, to allow him to finish off the Russians. That notion was never listed in Churchill’s daytimer. Hitler, for too long, asked the wrong questions, because of incorrect assumptions.

    “That idiot Churchill expects me to surrender???”

    No. He doesn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato
    Churchill had it in for anything German and wanted to get rid of the continental menace but he was not undecent, He became pretty agitated when Stalin twirled his moustache and suggested Katyn Foresting.

    From "The Roosevelt Myth" by John Flynn:

    ... Here was Roosevelt suggesting a secret deal between himself and Stalin against Churchill, just as he had suggested a secret deal between himself and Chiang against Churchill and as he was later to make another secret deal between himself and Stalin against Chiang.

    He was to have a golden opportunity to convince Stalin of this attitude before he quit Teheran. Roosevelt gave a dinner the first evening, Stalin the next and Churchill on the final evening at the British embassy. At Stalin's dinner the guests gave themselves over to the victuals and the vodka in a big way. Elliott Roosevelt tells how
    Stalin thrust a barbed shaft into Churchill's temper. In one of his numerous toasts he raised his glass and said: "To the swiftest possible justice for all Germany's war criminals—justice before a firing squad. I drink to our unity in dispatching them as fast as we catch them, all of them, and there must be at least 50,000 of them."

    Churchill flushed, leaped to his feet. He declared that any such mass murder was contrary to the British sense of justice. He was opposed to anybody, Nazis or anyone else, going before a firing squad without a proper legal trial. Certainly no American could take exception to that and no decent American could endorse the sentiments of Stalin. Churchill having taken up the challenge, Roosevelt might have been well advised to remain out of it or, if he intervened, to either support Churchill or, in any case, attempt to mollify both men. Instead he said in a jocular vein: "Clearly there must be some compromise . . . Perhaps we could say that instead of summarily executing 50,000 we should settle on a smaller number, say 49,500." The Americans and Russians laughed. The British remained silent "in the presence of Churchill's
    mounting fury." Stalin was delighted. He took up the cue and pressed die matter. He called on everyone present for an opinion. He got around to Elliott who was flushed with liquor, as he admits, and who rose "unsteadily to his feet" Elliott said "Our armies will settle the matter for most of those 50,000 and perhaps a hundred thousand more." Stalin, greatly pleased, walked around the table to Elliott, put his arm around his shoulder and drank to his health. Churchill, infuriated, rushed to Elliott, shaking his finger in his face and crying: "Are you interested in damaging relations between the allies? Do you know what you are saying? How can you dare to say such a thing?" Elliott says he had good reason to believe Churchill never forgot the incident but that his father was greatly amused by it. It was a happy opportunity for him to add, by an amusing incident, to the proofs he was giving that he and Stalin, like Hopkins and Stalin, were buddies.
     
  11. @eah
    This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels,...

    Sarrazin's books have always sold very well -- eg his book 'Deutschland schafft sich ab' was the bestselling book on amazon.de in 2010.

    On the German language Wikipedia page about Sieferle it says: Das Buch wurde auf der Juni-Liste der „Sachbücher des Monats“ von NDR und der Süddeutschen Zeitung aufgeführt -- his book was put on suggested non-fiction reading lists for June by the newspaper Süddeutschen Zeitung and NDR -- NDR = Norddeutscher Rundfunk, one of the state funded broadcasters (it is based in Hamburg), ie it's basically a Staatsorgan -- so establishment opinion about Sieferle does not seem unanimous.

    And speaking of state funded broadcasters:

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    Does longtime FTDNA membership get me off the hook? Combined with a GEDmatch app, I am now led to believe that my parents were not related to each other in any way, and I proudly proclaim this to those who, too frequently, say otherwise. !!!SCIENCE!!!
  12. @Erik Sieven
    concerning migration and the whole problem with violent black / muslim expansion Germany is STILL better off than UK, France or the USA. So it makes no sense to search for special reasons for what happened in Germany in the last few years. It is the same in all western countries, and it certainly has nothing to do with WW II, as both winners and losers of this war now face the same problems.

    Right. As a counterexample, you’d think that America’s long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a “nation of immigrants,” and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.

    And yes, the globalists do use those arguments here. Then they go ahead and use different arguments for why Europeans must take in an unlimited number of Africans and Muslims. After all, Britain and France have a history of colonialism or something.

    Then you look at countries like Sweden, which has a rather slim history of migration, not much colonialism beyond the Baltic, was neutral during WWII, and wasn’t involved in the War in Iraq. But they still are expected to take in the entire population of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Nigeria.

    Different arguments. Different words. Same pattern. Same results.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    As a counterexample, you’d think that America’s long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a “nation of immigrants,” and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.
     
    There is a difference between pioneers/settlers and immigrants. If you want to find people who are generally blowing up or undermining your civilization, it's not the pioneer/settler group.

    Globalist have been highly successful in making pioneer/settlers = immigrants. Some similar traits under the best of the circumstances, but not the same.
    , @anon
    They always come up with a different argument but the objective is ALWAYS the same. The destruction of white nations.
    , @SMK
    In respect to Sweden, the consummate feminist/Left-liberal soft totalitarian dystopia, the governing-classes and ruling-elites are addled and driven by guilt and ethno-masochism simply because they're white, apparently, and thus the invasion of Muslim savages and primitives, brown and black, who commit over 95% of rapes and will soon destroy Sweden and it's feminist/progressive values.

    Islam is the antithesis of feminism and left-liberalism. But Muslims are non-Europeans, and thus sacred and inviolate. For the left, race is paramount. Race trumps "gender" And thus feminists and liberals who've imposed the most coercive and intrusive sex-crime laws on earth -John Derbyshire joked about being charged with rape in Sweden for stepping on a woman's toe- are silent about the epidemic of violent rapes of Swedish women and girls by Muslim savages and misogynists, simply because they're non-white, and thus the rapists are indulged by the criminal justice system; e.g, a Somali who raped a 12-year-old girl was sentenced to 6-months of community service.

    All that leftists and Muslims have in common is hatred of whites and Western Civilization and, cnsequently, they are allies in seeking the destruction of whites and Western Civilization.

  13. @isteve
    What did you mean by : “Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history.” ?

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    Polish history is very cool btw. No one else had the Winged Hussars.

    https://youtu.be/75zmIj_4LFQ

    For all the Polish jokes (spread by Germans?) if it were not for the Poles, the Winged Hussars and Jan Sobieski, we'd all be paying Jizya now.
    , @Altai
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country
    , @BenjaminL
    I think he means that Australia is the proverbially "lucky country," as in: 25+ years without a recession, even better borders than the U.S., decades of a "White Australia" policy, etc.

    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2016/07-08/luck-australians/
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39124272
    , @Jon Orton
    @RealSimon
    Based on what Mr Sailer has written in the past about violent Polish colonialism (there was none - violent or otherwise) then I suppose he's making the point that the violence of Australian expansionism made the violence of American expansionism seem relatively benign.
    , @AnotherDad

    What did you mean by : “Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history.” ?
     
    If you read what immediately preceded Steve's thought:

    “There are un-tragic peoples,” he writes, “whom history pearls off of like water from a well-polished boot.” He means the English and Americans, who have always tried to pass off their oligarchies as cradles of democracy.
     
    Then you get it. As good as the situation in America was, we had the "legacy of slavery" and the Civil War. Compared to that Australia really is a place "whom history pearls off of like water from a well polished boot". Sure some bad treatment of the aboriginals, and the tales of penal Australian horrors, but really a very nice uncomplicated place with *no* land borders. White Australia was paradise. Of course, the wreckers just had to get to it too--because no white nation can be allowed to be white--and are quickly running it into the ground as well.
  14. In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.

    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I’m not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:

    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven – ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins

    .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    There were heretics before Luther. Protestantism spread in Germania in largest part because it had no central government, but a lot of small warring statelets who saw advantage in seizing the Church's very substantial land and other wealth.
    , @El Dato

    the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans
     
    This is not a new phenomenon. Here is David Cameron retconning WWI into a war for the freedoms instead of imperial ass-grinding:

    David Cameron: first world war fought 'in defence of British values'

    I don't know what values he is talking about. It's not as if exporting British liberalism into the continent was a particularly big aim when the decision to uphold the neutrality of "plucky Belgium" was taken.
    , @IHTG

    Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans
     
    If I recall, in the climax of A Game of Shadows, the British villain attempts to have the German representative at an international summit assassinated to instigate a world war. He also successfully assassinates a number of other German VIPs over the course of the film. I don't think that's the kind of story a film attempting to project eternal German guilt into the past would tell.
    , @Altai
    Apparently the original draft was WWII but they changed it, maybe to make it a more interesting time period for their targeted female audience (More Downtown Abbey like) maybe because it had been done to death, but it allowed for a more interesting plot with Ares. But yes the imagery of an Israeli beating Germans rather brutally (As if it was personal rather than her having to go through mooks to get to a master manipulator) in bucket helmets is not lost on the audience. Even worse since apparently they are just as much unwitting pawns in the plot as the Americans.

    I did laugh at the multicultural army unit.
    , @Expletive Deleted
    I read somewhere (on the chans, most likely. Yes, I know ..) that the latest Wonderwoman film's entire ideological purpose was to get (((Fritz Haber))) and his (((colleagues))) out of the frame, both for the development of poison gas as a WMD and indeed his enthusiastic personal supervision of the results on both the Eastern and Western fronts.

    The man was a little horror, no wonder his wife offed herself (unmourned) after his first trip, to the Somme, to watch thousands of men being slowly and disgustingly killed. He didn't even falter, probably annoyed that she missed, and took ages to croak. Straight off East, to watch a repeat performance involving tens of thousands of Russians.
    The film doesn't get on to his institute's invention of Zyklon-A after the War. Doubtless would have attributed it instead to some evil Prussian aristocrat, in his castle.

    So the Hollywood message is. "Germans=>gas. Since forever. Nothing to do with (((us))). Hell, it was a stronk independent yenta that saved the world from those ebil gas-crazy Chermans!"
    , @Glaivester
    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.
    , @Olorin
    Constructing narratives to retcon history appears to be a Jewish specialty, which one might suspect is part of a population strategy.

    The "Nazi" narrative is one; the "huddled masses" is another. It goes back much farther, apparently:

    See Russell Gmirkin's books on the authorship and time frame of the Pentateuch, in which he offers compelling textual evidence that they were penned in Alexandria in the 3rd century BC, out of Berossus, Manetho, and Plato. Andrew Joyce wrote a nice piece about all that at TOO in January.

    I have been in settings where people with supposed academic credentials argue with a straight face that Cro-Magnons/Homo heidelbergensis were the ur-Nazi devils. The original sin goes back that far, you see. As soon as there was a Teuton, there Nazi was born.

    But this doesn't hold for any other race, plus genetics isn't really real where race is concerned! Only Germans, which is to say NAZIS!

  15. .. and same treason of the elites.
    The arguments are for show; the results are for real.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    Exactly - they will use whatever arguments work best at that moment in that place. Consistency and logic be damned.
  16. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    There were heretics before Luther. Protestantism spread in Germania in largest part because it had no central government, but a lot of small warring statelets who saw advantage in seizing the Church’s very substantial land and other wealth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AM

    There were heretics before Luther. Protestantism spread in Germania in largest part because it had no central government, but a lot of small warring statelets who saw advantage in seizing the Church’s very substantial land and other wealth.
     
    Also because of the German character. If you trace back dissent Christian movements, they almost all go back to Germanic peoples. That's true modernly. German Bishops are the ones inside the Catholic church pushing for things like communion for divorced and Lutheran mixed couples. Other nations Bishops are more content to leave well enough alone.

    Italians faults are right there on display. I tend to think Germans are a bit buried, but they're there.
  17. Caldwell is a treasure. Amazing to see him in the NYT.

    His book on the Muslim takeover of Europe.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflections_on_the_Revolution_in_Europe

    Yes, mass Muslim migration will be the end of free speech.

    –According to Caldwell, “the most chilling observation” in Reflections on the Revolution in Europe is that ” the debate over Muslim immigration in Europe is one that the continent can’t openly have, because anyone remotely critical of Islam is branded as Islamophobic. Europe’s citizens — as well as its leaders, its artists and, crucially, its satirists — are scared to speak because of a demonstrated willingness by Islam’s fanatics to commit violence against their perceived opponents. There exists, Mr. Caldwell writes, a kind of “standing fatwa” against Islam’s critics”.–

    Germany’s mass migration of Muslims pretty much all go on welfare:

    –Caldwell cuts to shreds the conventional wisdom of the “immigrationist” ideology – the view that mass immigration is inevitable and in any case a necessary injection of youth into our ageing continent. He shows, contrary to the immigrationists, that the flows of recent decades are unprecedented. He also demolishes the economic and welfare- state arguments for mass immigration… One of the most startling figures in the book is that the number of foreign residents in Germany rose from 3 million to 7.5 million between 1971 and 2000 but the number of employed foreigners stayed the same at 2 million.”–

    7.5 million in 2009, how many now?

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    • Replies: @German_reader

    7.5 million in 2009, how many now?
     
    I think it's ten million now, more than half (5,8 million or so) non-EU citizens. Number of those increased by two million between 2014 and 2016.
    , @AnotherDad
    Thanks Lot--two excellent comments in a row.

    Germania, the Reformation and the chance to seize Church property--important point sometimes overlooked.

    And completely agree on Caldwell's "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe"--a terrific book. The basic themes and argument are well known/understood by readers of Steve's blog, but if you're having a pleasant sunshiny day, and need a dose of realistic depression, it will do the trick.
  18. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans

    This is not a new phenomenon. Here is David Cameron retconning WWI into a war for the freedoms instead of imperial ass-grinding:

    David Cameron: first world war fought ‘in defence of British values’

    I don’t know what values he is talking about. It’s not as if exporting British liberalism into the continent was a particularly big aim when the decision to uphold the neutrality of “plucky Belgium” was taken.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    David Cameron: first world war fought ‘in defence of British values’
     
    Many of Britain's values at the time, on issues such as race, nation, homosexual behaviour, empire, etc, now of course being regarded by Cameron as having been monstrous outrages, and he himself has played a small and disreputable part in continuing their suppression.
    , @Glaivester
    Retconning? Wasn't the idea that World War I was a war for freedom and an attempt to stop the evil Hun part of the Allied propaganda at the time, and the freedom part even moreso immediately after the war?
  19. “The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ”

    Some Jewish activists would appear to be Holocaust horders since they actively lobby to prevent the Armenian genocide from being recognized as a Holocaust even though a higher percentage of Armenians were murdered.

    from a 2007 LATimes article

    “In the long, unhappy life of the congressional resolution to officially recognize and commemorate the Armenian genocide, there have been many moments (from the Armenian point of view, which I broadly share) of parliamentary treachery — then-House speaker Dennis Hastert withdrawing the resolution at the last minute in 2000, both presidents George Bush vowing as candidates to officially recognize the genocide then dropping the pledge once in the White House, and so on.
    Now we can add to that list … hawkish South Bay Democrat Jane Harman! Even though Harman is one the bill’s 226 co-sponsors, she nonetheless wrote a letter to House Foreign Relations Committee Chair Tom Lantos Wednesday urging him to withdraw it from consideration, and announcing that she will oppose the very resolution she affixed her name to. ”

    http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2007/10/harman-flip-flo.html

    The Armenian Genocide bill did not pass nor has one passed.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    OK, that's just plain weird. Hitler even boasted that he could get away with his plans because "who now remembers the Massacre of the Armenians?"
  20. ““The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ”

    That’s a good line.

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  21. It is remarkable. Like the way Swedes and Canadians (Or how the media tried to convince the Irish public that anyone would care if the country voted for or against gay marriage) think anybody cares if they are ‘humanitarian superpowers’ (Except maybe the local press in Eritrea) the Germans have been convinced the rest of Europe cares about their eternal war guilt. (We don’t, anyone from the generation after the war who isn’t French finds it really creepy and totally irrationally and pathological when they view it first hand) I’m not saying that is sufficient since it is internalised guilt, but it’s always amazing when the Germans realise the rest of Europe doesn’t care.

    It is entirely focused on what they did to the Jews too as was noted. During the debt crisis it was repeated that the money Germany managed to avoid paying as reparations to Greece (Which it would subsequently been readily about to afford in the economic miracle a decade later) would have covered it’s debts to German banks, but war guilt didn’t work that time, no matter how ugly the occupation.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The Germans dodged a whole lot of WWII war guilt / reparations issues due to the Cold War and their bad behavior in response to Versailles. As you point out, the Greeks had a real beef with the Germans that didn't get aired during the debt crisis, because the Greeks are fellow Europeans, so they don't count.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    In the UK the emphasis on the Shoah in schools has kept Hitler and the Nazis very much alive, which has the unfortunate side effect that German exchange schoolkids are occasionally sieg-heiled in the streets (or worse) by certain lewd fellows of the baser sort.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1437691/Britons-blamed-for-Nazi-attacks.html

    "Sir Peter told The Telegraph: "It is hard to explain why it is that 15-year-old kids in 2003 are attacking Germans on the streets and calling them Nazis when neither they nor their parents have direct experience of the war.

    "We need to ask ourselves where these prejudices and stereotypes are coming from.""
     
  22. @Artemis
    The article lacks relevant background. The book did not enter the readers list because of its success on the market, the list is made up by a jury allocating points. One jury member, Johannes Saltzwedel, abused the rules and for three month in a row awarded all his points to this book. He had to resign from the Jury. The book was only sold following the abuse of position in the jury. It did not create any significant public discussion beyond this. The list and it's review system are being adapted. For example http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/sachbuch-liste-empfehlung-nach-punkten-1.3541949 or http://www.boersenblatt.net/artikel-kritik_an_der_jury_der__sachbuecher_des_monats_.1340936.html or http://www.juedische-allgemeine.de/mobile/article-view?id=29006

    Oy!

    Auf Platz neun der Liste mit Sachbuch-Empfehlungen von NDR und SZ steht das Buch eines rechtsradikalen Verlags, das Pamphlet “Finis Germania” des 2016 verstorbenen Historikers Rolf Peter Sieferle. Warum?

    So the book has been issued by a “right-wing radical” publisher. That’s bad!

    Der Verlag ist Teil der organisatorischen Infrastruktur der extremen Rechten in Deutschland, sein Geschäftsführer Götz Kubitschek zugleich Mitbegründer des in Schnellroda ansässigen “Instituts für Staatspolitik”, Redakteur der Zeitschrift Sezession und Redner auf Pegida-Veranstaltungen.

    The publisher is part of the organisational infrastrukture of the German extreme right. Manager Götz Kubitschek is both co-founder of the “Institute for State Politics” in Schnellroda, editor of the newspaper “Sezession” and speaker at Pegida meetings.

    Probably looks like a smug frog, too.

    Auf den ersten und zweiten Platz der Juni-Liste hat die Jury im Juni Ulrike Guérots “Der neue Bürgerkrieg. Das offene Europa und seine Feinde” sowie Georg Seeßlens “Trump! POPulismus als Politik” gesetzt, auf Platz 3 Dieter Borchmeyers “Was ist deutsch? Die Suche einer Nation nach sich selbst.” Ein “Atlas der Umweltmigration” und das jüngste Buch von Michael Lüders zum Syrien-Konflikt verstärken die Konzentration der Liste auf Bücher, die das Entstehen von und den Umgang mit Populismus behandeln, aber auch Debatten um aktuelle Migrationsbewegungen.

    So for June, the books on the list are as follows:

    - “The new civil war. Open Europe and its enemies” by Ulrike Guérots
    - “Trump! POPulism as politics” by Georg Seeßlens
    - “What is german? A nation in search of itself” by Dieter Borchmeyer
    - “Atlas of world migrations”
    - Some book about the “conflict” in Syria by Michael Lüders

    The booklist thus focuses on the subjects of the rise and handling of populism but also current debates regarding migration.

    I think books with titles like “What is german? A nation in search of itself” have reliably been on these lists since the 50s. Does “The German Question” by Wilhelm Röpke count? Then since the 40s (but published from Switzerland for evident reasons).

    We further read that

    “Andreas Wang (NDR), jury member and editor in charge, tells SZ that the jury calls on the anonymous vote-stuffing member to hand in his or her resignation and on other jury members to refuse working with said member.”

    In cauda purgatorium:

    Anmerkung der Redaktion: Inzwischen ist bekannt, wer “Finis Germania” auf die Sachbuch-Empfehlungsliste setzen ließ: Es handelt sich um den Spiegel-Redakteur Johannes Saltzwedel. Dieser hat am Montag seinen Rücktritt aus der Jury bekannt gegeben. In einer Erklärung gab Saltzwedel an, er habe “bewusst ein sehr provokantes Buch” zur Diskussion bringen wollen: “Sieferles Aufzeichnungen sind die eines final Erbitterten, gewollt riskant formuliert in aphoristischer Zuspitzung. Man möchte über jeden Satz mit dem Autor diskutieren, so dicht und wütend schreibt er.” Die SZ stellt die Veröffentlichung der Liste “Sachbücher des Monats”, die sie bislang gemeinsam mit dem NDR präsentiert hat, ein. Auch NDR Kultur setzt die Zusammenarbeit mit der Jury aus.

    Update: It is now know that Johannes Saltzwedel, editor of the Spiegel (weekly flagship fat mag of tedious and exhausting left-wing malcontentism and repetitive memento Hitleris (ed.)) did the deed. Saltzwedel explains that he “intentionally” wanted to raise awareness regarding a “controversial book”. He is cited: “Seferles writings are those of a terminally embiterred man, consciously formulated in a daring style, with aphoristic extremes. One would like to discuss every single phrase with the author, such is the writing’s rage and density.” SZ has stopped publishing the list “nonfiction books of the month”, which up to now has been presented together with Norddeutscher Rundfunk (NDR). NDR also has discontinued any work with the jury.

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  23. The Germans are culturally isolated because of their language, I had never heard of this chap and I expect most people are the same.

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    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
    "Fog in Channel: Continent cut off"
    Oh I say, well played, sir. At least some people still see the world from a proper perspective. All is not lost.
  24. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans

    If I recall, in the climax of A Game of Shadows, the British villain attempts to have the German representative at an international summit assassinated to instigate a world war. He also successfully assassinates a number of other German VIPs over the course of the film. I don’t think that’s the kind of story a film attempting to project eternal German guilt into the past would tell.

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    • Replies: @eD
    It should also be noted that even in "Wonder Woman" the real villain turns out to be a British civil servant.
    , @Thomas
    Not referring to the plot elements as much as the visual styling of the costumes and props of the German soldiers and their equipment in both movies, whether historically appropriate or not. The movie makers instantly "put on the Reich" as an immediately visually obvious trope that signifies menace and faceless mookery.
  25. @Altai
    It is remarkable. Like the way Swedes and Canadians (Or how the media tried to convince the Irish public that anyone would care if the country voted for or against gay marriage) think anybody cares if they are 'humanitarian superpowers' (Except maybe the local press in Eritrea) the Germans have been convinced the rest of Europe cares about their eternal war guilt. (We don't, anyone from the generation after the war who isn't French finds it really creepy and totally irrationally and pathological when they view it first hand) I'm not saying that is sufficient since it is internalised guilt, but it's always amazing when the Germans realise the rest of Europe doesn't care.

    It is entirely focused on what they did to the Jews too as was noted. During the debt crisis it was repeated that the money Germany managed to avoid paying as reparations to Greece (Which it would subsequently been readily about to afford in the economic miracle a decade later) would have covered it's debts to German banks, but war guilt didn't work that time, no matter how ugly the occupation.

    The Germans dodged a whole lot of WWII war guilt / reparations issues due to the Cold War and their bad behavior in response to Versailles. As you point out, the Greeks had a real beef with the Germans that didn’t get aired during the debt crisis, because the Greeks are fellow Europeans, so they don’t count.

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    • Replies: @Altai
    It explains why they got off in the early days of the Cold War, the possible fears of consequences explain why Germany didn't let Greece off the debts (Can argue that it made political sense in the short term and maybe if the crisis protracted it would be easier to eject Greece and maybe others from the EMU) but not why the German public had no moral problem with it all. The war guilt magic couldn't work on them, some on the traditional hard left made the point but one got the feeling that it was them feeling bad about the Greeks situation in general and it all being a farce to funnel money to the banks not help the Greeks, not that they felt bad about the occupation of Greece.

    It's amazing, they really were allowed to call the Greeks lazy, feckless and implicitly inferior and needing of suffering to educate them. (I'm under no illusions about the work ethic of a Greek to a Bavarian, but when you're making them give up their future rather than actually bailing them out one might be a bit kinder) My favourite was seeing a vox pop of a Turkish guy born in Germany talking about sending 'our money' to those lazy Greeks!
    , @reiner Tor
    Part of the reason Holocaustianity became the biggest religion in Germany was that the Germans expected the very worst (mostly Jewish) revenge after 1945. When that revenge didn't come, or at least was way milder than what the Germans expected, they started praising the Jews for their perceived magnanimity. (Nobody understood that the revenge wasn't yet over, or that it hadn't yet started then.)
  26. @RealSimon
    @isteve
    What did you mean by : "Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history." ?

    Polish history is very cool btw. No one else had the Winged Hussars.

    For all the Polish jokes (spread by Germans?) if it were not for the Poles, the Winged Hussars and Jan Sobieski, we’d all be paying Jizya now.

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  27. The Germans dodged a whole lot of WWII war guilt / reparations issues due to the Cold War and their bad behavior in response to Versailles.

    Not with respect to Jews and Israel. They paid and still are paying reparations. Germans accepted responsibility and guilt and showed contrition for what they did during the WW II and practically there is no revisionism in Germany. The same can’t be said about Russia where there is a strong resurgence of Stalinist and Bolshevik nostalgia and pride with growing denials and whitewashing of Soviet crimes. There was a very narrow window in 1990′s when Russians were willing to look at the crimes they and other Soviet peoples committed but Putin seems to stopped it and now they are in the phase of incorporating back their Soviet “achievements” into their ethos.

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  28. @Steve Sailer
    The Germans dodged a whole lot of WWII war guilt / reparations issues due to the Cold War and their bad behavior in response to Versailles. As you point out, the Greeks had a real beef with the Germans that didn't get aired during the debt crisis, because the Greeks are fellow Europeans, so they don't count.

    It explains why they got off in the early days of the Cold War, the possible fears of consequences explain why Germany didn’t let Greece off the debts (Can argue that it made political sense in the short term and maybe if the crisis protracted it would be easier to eject Greece and maybe others from the EMU) but not why the German public had no moral problem with it all. The war guilt magic couldn’t work on them, some on the traditional hard left made the point but one got the feeling that it was them feeling bad about the Greeks situation in general and it all being a farce to funnel money to the banks not help the Greeks, not that they felt bad about the occupation of Greece.

    It’s amazing, they really were allowed to call the Greeks lazy, feckless and implicitly inferior and needing of suffering to educate them. (I’m under no illusions about the work ethic of a Greek to a Bavarian, but when you’re making them give up their future rather than actually bailing them out one might be a bit kinder) My favourite was seeing a vox pop of a Turkish guy born in Germany talking about sending ‘our money’ to those lazy Greeks!

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  29. “Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history.”

    What’s the short version of this, because I literally have no idea of what this statement is supposed to mean.

    Unless it is something about neighboring countries, which I suppose the US actually does have more of than Australia.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    I suppose it means US history is more tragic than Australian history. The US did have that horrible civil war after all.
    Australian history is rather bland by contrast.
  30. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    Apparently the original draft was WWII but they changed it, maybe to make it a more interesting time period for their targeted female audience (More Downtown Abbey like) maybe because it had been done to death, but it allowed for a more interesting plot with Ares. But yes the imagery of an Israeli beating Germans rather brutally (As if it was personal rather than her having to go through mooks to get to a master manipulator) in bucket helmets is not lost on the audience. Even worse since apparently they are just as much unwitting pawns in the plot as the Americans.

    I did laugh at the multicultural army unit.

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  31. Amazonning at

    https://www.amazon.de/Finis-Germania-Kaplaken/dp/3944422503/ref=sr_1_1

    reveals

    86 – 5 stars
    9 – 1 stars

    You also get the Amazon recommendation for additional books entitled “Diese Sommerschmöker gehören in die Strandtasche” (these books should be in your beach bag). Now there’s an idea, but will I be beaten up by rowing Antifa gangs while vacationing on the sadly dirtied beaches of the Ostsee?

    The topmost commenter (“542 people found this comment helpful”) complains that the book only started accumulating cookie-cutter keyword-based 1-star ratings (which include accusing the author of being a Holocaust denier) after the manufactured NDR scandal and the book having been declared “right-wing extremist”.

    On the other hand this negative review in german is quite interesting though volubile in a “done my literary studies” kinda way (invokes Nietzsche, apparently it’s not yet common knowledge that Nietzsche was actually not particularly antisemitic?).

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  32. … But Mr. Sieferle is critical of Germany’s postwar culture of Holocaust memory, which he argues has taken on the traits of a religion. … But Mr. Sieferle is critical of Germany’s postwar culture of Holocaust memory, which he argues has taken on the traits of a religion. The country’s sins are held to be unique and absolute, beyond either redemption or comparison. “The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ” Hitler, in retrospect, turns out to have done a paradoxical thing: He bound Germans and Jews together in a narrative for all time. In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.

    But it’s definitely a post-Christian religion. Yeah, that’s the ticket, it’s post-Christian. Not some weird kind of offshoot Judaism for goyim, or something; not Noahide laws.

    Germans seem to have a problem with moderation. If they’re not diving too deep into the Fuhrer, they’re diving too deep into suicidal leftism. They went smoothly from one type of authoritarianism, to another.

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  33. @Altai
    It is remarkable. Like the way Swedes and Canadians (Or how the media tried to convince the Irish public that anyone would care if the country voted for or against gay marriage) think anybody cares if they are 'humanitarian superpowers' (Except maybe the local press in Eritrea) the Germans have been convinced the rest of Europe cares about their eternal war guilt. (We don't, anyone from the generation after the war who isn't French finds it really creepy and totally irrationally and pathological when they view it first hand) I'm not saying that is sufficient since it is internalised guilt, but it's always amazing when the Germans realise the rest of Europe doesn't care.

    It is entirely focused on what they did to the Jews too as was noted. During the debt crisis it was repeated that the money Germany managed to avoid paying as reparations to Greece (Which it would subsequently been readily about to afford in the economic miracle a decade later) would have covered it's debts to German banks, but war guilt didn't work that time, no matter how ugly the occupation.

    In the UK the emphasis on the Shoah in schools has kept Hitler and the Nazis very much alive, which has the unfortunate side effect that German exchange schoolkids are occasionally sieg-heiled in the streets (or worse) by certain lewd fellows of the baser sort.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1437691/Britons-blamed-for-Nazi-attacks.html

    “Sir Peter told The Telegraph: “It is hard to explain why it is that 15-year-old kids in 2003 are attacking Germans on the streets and calling them Nazis when neither they nor their parents have direct experience of the war.

    “We need to ask ourselves where these prejudices and stereotypes are coming from.””

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  34. ““The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ”

    That’s a good line.

    The Commandments of Holocaustianity.

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  35. @El Dato

    the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans
     
    This is not a new phenomenon. Here is David Cameron retconning WWI into a war for the freedoms instead of imperial ass-grinding:

    David Cameron: first world war fought 'in defence of British values'

    I don't know what values he is talking about. It's not as if exporting British liberalism into the continent was a particularly big aim when the decision to uphold the neutrality of "plucky Belgium" was taken.

    David Cameron: first world war fought ‘in defence of British values’

    Many of Britain’s values at the time, on issues such as race, nation, homosexual behaviour, empire, etc, now of course being regarded by Cameron as having been monstrous outrages, and he himself has played a small and disreputable part in continuing their suppression.

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  36. @eah
    And speaking of state funded broadcasters:

    https://twitter.com/JayMan471/status/883186526766718977

    Does longtime FTDNA membership get me off the hook? Combined with a GEDmatch app, I am now led to believe that my parents were not related to each other in any way, and I proudly proclaim this to those who, too frequently, say otherwise. !!!SCIENCE!!!

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  37. @Sid
    Right. As a counterexample, you'd think that America's long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a "nation of immigrants," and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.

    And yes, the globalists do use those arguments here. Then they go ahead and use different arguments for why Europeans must take in an unlimited number of Africans and Muslims. After all, Britain and France have a history of colonialism or something.

    Then you look at countries like Sweden, which has a rather slim history of migration, not much colonialism beyond the Baltic, was neutral during WWII, and wasn't involved in the War in Iraq. But they still are expected to take in the entire population of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Nigeria.

    Different arguments. Different words. Same pattern. Same results.

    As a counterexample, you’d think that America’s long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a “nation of immigrants,” and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.

    There is a difference between pioneers/settlers and immigrants. If you want to find people who are generally blowing up or undermining your civilization, it’s not the pioneer/settler group.

    Globalist have been highly successful in making pioneer/settlers = immigrants. Some similar traits under the best of the circumstances, but not the same.

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  38. @Lot
    There were heretics before Luther. Protestantism spread in Germania in largest part because it had no central government, but a lot of small warring statelets who saw advantage in seizing the Church's very substantial land and other wealth.

    There were heretics before Luther. Protestantism spread in Germania in largest part because it had no central government, but a lot of small warring statelets who saw advantage in seizing the Church’s very substantial land and other wealth.

    Also because of the German character. If you trace back dissent Christian movements, they almost all go back to Germanic peoples. That’s true modernly. German Bishops are the ones inside the Catholic church pushing for things like communion for divorced and Lutheran mixed couples. Other nations Bishops are more content to leave well enough alone.

    Italians faults are right there on display. I tend to think Germans are a bit buried, but they’re there.

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  39. @RealSimon
    @isteve
    What did you mean by : "Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history." ?

    I think he means that Australia is the proverbially “lucky country,” as in: 25+ years without a recession, even better borders than the U.S., decades of a “White Australia” policy, etc.

    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2016/07-08/luck-australians/

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39124272

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  40. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    I read somewhere (on the chans, most likely. Yes, I know ..) that the latest Wonderwoman film’s entire ideological purpose was to get (((Fritz Haber))) and his (((colleagues))) out of the frame, both for the development of poison gas as a WMD and indeed his enthusiastic personal supervision of the results on both the Eastern and Western fronts.

    The man was a little horror, no wonder his wife offed herself (unmourned) after his first trip, to the Somme, to watch thousands of men being slowly and disgustingly killed. He didn’t even falter, probably annoyed that she missed, and took ages to croak. Straight off East, to watch a repeat performance involving tens of thousands of Russians.
    The film doesn’t get on to his institute’s invention of Zyklon-A after the War. Doubtless would have attributed it instead to some evil Prussian aristocrat, in his castle.

    So the Hollywood message is. “Germans=>gas. Since forever. Nothing to do with (((us))). Hell, it was a stronk independent yenta that saved the world from those ebil gas-crazy Chermans!”

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  41. @Lot
    Caldwell is a treasure. Amazing to see him in the NYT.

    His book on the Muslim takeover of Europe.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflections_on_the_Revolution_in_Europe

    Yes, mass Muslim migration will be the end of free speech.


    --According to Caldwell, "the most chilling observation" in Reflections on the Revolution in Europe is that " the debate over Muslim immigration in Europe is one that the continent can’t openly have, because anyone remotely critical of Islam is branded as Islamophobic. Europe’s citizens — as well as its leaders, its artists and, crucially, its satirists — are scared to speak because of a demonstrated willingness by Islam’s fanatics to commit violence against their perceived opponents. There exists, Mr. Caldwell writes, a kind of "standing fatwa" against Islam’s critics".--

    Germany's mass migration of Muslims pretty much all go on welfare:

    --Caldwell cuts to shreds the conventional wisdom of the "immigrationist" ideology - the view that mass immigration is inevitable and in any case a necessary injection of youth into our ageing continent. He shows, contrary to the immigrationists, that the flows of recent decades are unprecedented. He also demolishes the economic and welfare- state arguments for mass immigration... One of the most startling figures in the book is that the number of foreign residents in Germany rose from 3 million to 7.5 million between 1971 and 2000 but the number of employed foreigners stayed the same at 2 million."--

    7.5 million in 2009, how many now?

    7.5 million in 2009, how many now?

    I think it’s ten million now, more than half (5,8 million or so) non-EU citizens. Number of those increased by two million between 2014 and 2016.

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  42. @jim jones
    The Germans are culturally isolated because of their language, I had never heard of this chap and I expect most people are the same.

    “Fog in Channel: Continent cut off”
    Oh I say, well played, sir. At least some people still see the world from a proper perspective. All is not lost.

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  43. @conatus
    “The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ”


    Some Jewish activists would appear to be Holocaust horders since they actively lobby to prevent the Armenian genocide from being recognized as a Holocaust even though a higher percentage of Armenians were murdered.

    from a 2007 LATimes article

    "In the long, unhappy life of the congressional resolution to officially recognize and commemorate the Armenian genocide, there have been many moments (from the Armenian point of view, which I broadly share) of parliamentary treachery -- then-House speaker Dennis Hastert withdrawing the resolution at the last minute in 2000, both presidents George Bush vowing as candidates to officially recognize the genocide then dropping the pledge once in the White House, and so on.
    Now we can add to that list ... hawkish South Bay Democrat Jane Harman! Even though Harman is one the bill's 226 co-sponsors, she nonetheless wrote a letter to House Foreign Relations Committee Chair Tom Lantos Wednesday urging him to withdraw it from consideration, and announcing that she will oppose the very resolution she affixed her name to. "
    http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2007/10/harman-flip-flo.html


    The Armenian Genocide bill did not pass nor has one passed.

    OK, that’s just plain weird. Hitler even boasted that he could get away with his plans because “who now remembers the Massacre of the Armenians?”

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    • Replies: @Dieter Kief

    OK, that’s just plain weird. Hitler even boasted that he could get away with his plans because “who now remembers the Massacre of the Armenians?”
     
    You're right from the perspective of Hitler. And the Jews opposing the Armenian massacres the "Holocuast"-status are right from the perspective of those who look at the Holocaust as a kind of brand, which's power would be weakened, if it appeared, that it's not the first - or the only one - of it's kind. That's - quite ironically - the culture-industries' (Frankfurt-School term) imperative: The more exclusive something seems to be, the more desirable and powerful is it.
  44. @El Dato

    the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans
     
    This is not a new phenomenon. Here is David Cameron retconning WWI into a war for the freedoms instead of imperial ass-grinding:

    David Cameron: first world war fought 'in defence of British values'

    I don't know what values he is talking about. It's not as if exporting British liberalism into the continent was a particularly big aim when the decision to uphold the neutrality of "plucky Belgium" was taken.

    Retconning? Wasn’t the idea that World War I was a war for freedom and an attempt to stop the evil Hun part of the Allied propaganda at the time, and the freedom part even moreso immediately after the war?

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    • Replies: @El Dato
    Maybe back then to fire up the masses, but getting the same argument out of the fridge 100 years later is just plain embarrassing.

    Because one would hope that the benefit of hindsight would be used.
  45. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.

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    • Replies: @AM

    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.
     
    This theoretical is not held up by experiences nor even the implications of the theoretical, unfortunately.

    Purgatory is essentially a second chance at redemption. If your theology has a formal confession and a concept like purgatory, you're pretty big into forgiveness. You're offering chance after chance after chance to get right.

    Thus Catholic cultures tend to be laid back about superficial vices - drinking, sloth, vulgarity, etc. There's always tomorrow, as it were. :) It's also why cultures who gravitate towards Catholicism have never been economic powerhouses, for good and bad.

    Most Protestants are pretty clear: you d*mn well (literally) better get it right the first time. Without purgatory it's straight to Hell. Yes, they say that you can just for forgiveness (that's there too in the Catholic theology in a particular circumstance by the way) but the price of that is endless scrubbing of the exteriors. Jettisoning purgatory and confession means acting like a Saint 24/7. While that's maybe not a bad idea, forgiveness is what exactly it's not.

    , @Thomas
    Modern Protestantism is so diverse and has had so many different theological threads in the last 500 years that ascribing one view of sin and forgiveness to it is impossible. But Lutheranism traditionally was very heavy on "sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura" ("by grace alone, through faith alone, through scripture alone"). None of the works of man could ever erase even the stain of original sin, nor fail to be tainted by sin, and all the world was destined to hell unless saved by grace.
  46. @Erik Sieven
    concerning migration and the whole problem with violent black / muslim expansion Germany is STILL better off than UK, France or the USA. So it makes no sense to search for special reasons for what happened in Germany in the last few years. It is the same in all western countries, and it certainly has nothing to do with WW II, as both winners and losers of this war now face the same problems.

    and it certainly has nothing to do with WW II

    Not true:

    http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/secret-of-anti-americanism.html

    First, I believe anti-Americanism is best described as an epiphenomenon of Universalism. The single most significant fact about the world today is that sixty-two years ago it was conquered by a military alliance whose leader was the United States, and whose creed of battle was this nontheistic adaptation of New England mainline Protestantism. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the European ruling class holds essentially the same perspectives that were held at Harvard in 1945. The US Army did not shoot all the professors in Europe and replace them with Yankee carpetbaggers, but the prestige of conquest is such that it might as well have.

    http://conswede.blogspot.com/2008/07/social-paradigms-shift-eg-our-view-on.html

    To illustrate what I talk about. Louis Armstrong visited Sweden in 1933. In all the news papers he was describe as something monkey-like let loose from the jungle. All across the line! And in the reviews by the most serious music critics.

    Who would have imagined in 1933, that twelve years later Western Europe would undergo an America-led cultural revolution which would lead to the common belief that there are no differences between races?

    Translation of two of the quotes:

    Knut Bäck in Göteborgs-Posten, November 1933:
    “This world is strange… No protests are raised against how the jungle is let loose into the society. Armstrong and his band are allowed to freely wreak destruction.”

    Sten Broman in Sydsvenskan, November 1933:
    “Dare I say that he at times had something monkey-like about him and sometimes reminded of, according to our perceptions, a mentally disturbed person, when he pouted with his mouth or gaped it to its widest open and roared like a hoarse animal from a primeval forest.”

    The third quote compares the concert with a natural disaster, and Armstrong’s trumpet with a hell machine. The only good thing coming out of it, he says, is that it solves to old dispute of whether monkeys have a language.

    This is what Europe looked like, up until 1945. And since some people will live under the misconception that this was a phenomenon of the ’30s, I here provide a quote from the Swedish Encyclopedia, Nordisk Familjebok, the 1876-1899 edition (here and here).

    “Psychologically the negro can be said be on the level of a child, with vivid fantasy, lack of endurance, … can be said to lack morality rather than being immoral … etc.”

    Even though the point here has been to illustrate how social paradigms can shift completely in short time (and this is just one out of numerous examples), let me add how up until 1945 all the focus was put on the differences between races, and after that all the focus has been put on what is equal (while ignoring differences). Let’s see if the next shift means a synthesis of the two extremes. Will people be able to keep two thoughts in their minds at the same time?

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  47. I have come to the view that the Holocaust so far from being unique was in many ways an emblematic event in world history. By that I mean that there was not a single crime or outrage committed against the Jewish people in Europe 1933-1945 that had not been committed countless times against equally innocent men, women, and children in various corners of the world in all known civilizations since history began (to say nothing of our pre-historical past, as in pre-Columbian America). It follows that the men and women in Germany and the rest of Europe who embraced and participated in the Holocaust were no better or worse than their nameless counterparts in other parts of the world. The same goes for those, the great majority, who merely stood by or who refused to know. Seen in this light, the notion that we should never forget the Holocaust takes on a new meaning. A terrible human price has been paid to build the modern world of liberal institutions we live in today. Let us therefore cherish it and teach our children and grandchildren to cherish it as well. It is a pearl of infinite price.

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    • Replies: @AM

    I have come to the view that the Holocaust so far from being unique was in many ways an emblematic event in world history.
     
    It is unique, but not in a way that our leftist and quite often secular Jewish historians would like to think.

    The Holocaust is unique to the German people and character. Most peoples, when they wish to confronted the problems/tendencies of non-Covenant Jews either a)firmly ask them to leave, b)ask them to conform under threat of exporting them, or c)as our wilely Egyptians did, make them slaves. (God seems to frown up that later option as well, if the OT is any indication.)

    What most cultures/peoples do not do is violate the universal prohibition against murder of innocents and come up with a "Final Solution". Germans and their close cousins the French have a strong streak of perfectionism in them. They are willing to go places in certain areas that most people shrug their shoulders over. The French, it's their food and sometimes their military. The Germans, their theologies and then carrying them out.

    It's not an accident, for instance that the Amish and the Mennonites are German in origin. You want a people serious about living their religion perfectly, whatever form that takes, it's the Germans.

    The freakout is in the West, and particularly by secular Jews in the media, is that any culture could have done the Holocaust. While any of us could blacken our hearts to that level, it is not clear that just any old group would fail along those lines. It seems to be uniquely German and even unique to a particular era, even if the ugly impulse underneath it is timeless and universal.

    , @AM

    It follows that the men and women in Germany and the rest of Europe who embraced and participated in the Holocaust were no better or worse than their nameless counterparts in other parts of the world.
     
    This statement can still be true, even if the Holocaust is unique, which I argued in a different post.

    Christianity teaches exactly this concept. The destiny of nations is built on a collective virtue. But Christianity says we all meet our maker as individuals. Did a secretary working at Auschwitz make to Heaven? Possibly. I don't know enough to judge. What about 17 year old who joined the Nazis because he really just wanted the best for Germany and his family, without understanding the greater evil or implications? Ralph in the Sound of Music is an excellent example of such a boy/man.

    I think we're pretty safe to say that an unrepentant Hitler is not in Heaven. But as Bugs Bunny points in cartoons from the era - "Everyone was somebody's baby once".
  48. @Steve Sailer
    The Germans dodged a whole lot of WWII war guilt / reparations issues due to the Cold War and their bad behavior in response to Versailles. As you point out, the Greeks had a real beef with the Germans that didn't get aired during the debt crisis, because the Greeks are fellow Europeans, so they don't count.

    Part of the reason Holocaustianity became the biggest religion in Germany was that the Germans expected the very worst (mostly Jewish) revenge after 1945. When that revenge didn’t come, or at least was way milder than what the Germans expected, they started praising the Jews for their perceived magnanimity. (Nobody understood that the revenge wasn’t yet over, or that it hadn’t yet started then.)

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    • Replies: @utu
    Nobody understood that the revenge wasn’t yet over, or that it hadn’t yet started then.

    Very insightful!
    , @Hail

    Nobody understood that the revenge wasn’t yet over, or that it hadn’t yet started then
     
    More importantly, nobody understood that the revenge would be collective, in that the losers would be all Western Christians.
  49. @IHTG

    Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans
     
    If I recall, in the climax of A Game of Shadows, the British villain attempts to have the German representative at an international summit assassinated to instigate a world war. He also successfully assassinates a number of other German VIPs over the course of the film. I don't think that's the kind of story a film attempting to project eternal German guilt into the past would tell.

    It should also be noted that even in “Wonder Woman” the real villain turns out to be a British civil servant.

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  50. @Old Palo Altan
    .. and same treason of the elites.
    The arguments are for show; the results are for real.

    Exactly – they will use whatever arguments work best at that moment in that place. Consistency and logic be damned.

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  51. I’ll be sorry to see Germany pass from the scene, but look on the bright side: it’ll remove a significant supply of manufactured goods from world markets – goods America can make and sell.

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  52. [T]he title plays on a phrase meaning “the end of Germany….”

    That the writer felt compelled to explain this fact indicates the utter ruin of modern civilisation. The meaning of the term Finis Germania is so obvious to anyone with an average European intelligence and a rudimentary education it is the kind of thing that Groucho Marx (in You Bet Your Life) or the guests of What’s My Line? might have used in banter without a second thought, and which their working-class viewers would have understood effortlessly.

    Nevermind rudimentary education: it used to be that to be educated at the collegiate level meant (de minimis) familiarity with Latin, Greek, geography, history, and Newtonian physics. Now it means familiarity with bogus concepts like intersectionality, cisgender, and white privilege – and little else. I expect the typical graduate of a college in 2017 does not know the quadratic formula (much less how to apply it to solve problems); the capital of Turkey; or the relationships among Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Alexander. The man-on-the-street bits people like Mark Dice do confirms many don’t even know basic facts such as the year the U.S.A. declared independence.

    What’s more – and far more evil than mere ignorance of facts – people now believe falsehoods: Alexander Hamilton was a Negro president; males who castrate themselves become females, etc.

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    • Replies: @El Dato
    Actually shouldn't it be "Finis Germaniae"? You need the genitive.
    , @Anon
    Only it doesn't mean the "end of Germany"; that would be finis Germaniae. What finis Germania means is less clear, unless something like "Germany is the limit".
  53. @Glaivester
    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.

    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.

    This theoretical is not held up by experiences nor even the implications of the theoretical, unfortunately.

    Purgatory is essentially a second chance at redemption. If your theology has a formal confession and a concept like purgatory, you’re pretty big into forgiveness. You’re offering chance after chance after chance to get right.

    Thus Catholic cultures tend to be laid back about superficial vices – drinking, sloth, vulgarity, etc. There’s always tomorrow, as it were. :) It’s also why cultures who gravitate towards Catholicism have never been economic powerhouses, for good and bad.

    Most Protestants are pretty clear: you d*mn well (literally) better get it right the first time. Without purgatory it’s straight to Hell. Yes, they say that you can just for forgiveness (that’s there too in the Catholic theology in a particular circumstance by the way) but the price of that is endless scrubbing of the exteriors. Jettisoning purgatory and confession means acting like a Saint 24/7. While that’s maybe not a bad idea, forgiveness is what exactly it’s not.

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    • Replies: @FPD72
    There are some poor understandings of Protestant theology in this thread. Only a relatively few Arminian theologians teach that salvation is lost through acts of sin. Luther taught that salvation could be lost, but only by rejecting the faith. Calvin taught that salvation could not be lost but that those who had been brought to faith would persevere in such faith. The emphasis of the Reformation was that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and is not dependent upon works, either good or bad.

    Many Protestants do teach the need for a relational forgiveness, but that this is not related to eternal forgiveness , which is received at conversion.
  54. @Glaivester
    Retconning? Wasn't the idea that World War I was a war for freedom and an attempt to stop the evil Hun part of the Allied propaganda at the time, and the freedom part even moreso immediately after the war?

    Maybe back then to fire up the masses, but getting the same argument out of the fridge 100 years later is just plain embarrassing.

    Because one would hope that the benefit of hindsight would be used.

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  55. @Luke Lea
    I have come to the view that the Holocaust so far from being unique was in many ways an emblematic event in world history. By that I mean that there was not a single crime or outrage committed against the Jewish people in Europe 1933-1945 that had not been committed countless times against equally innocent men, women, and children in various corners of the world in all known civilizations since history began (to say nothing of our pre-historical past, as in pre-Columbian America). It follows that the men and women in Germany and the rest of Europe who embraced and participated in the Holocaust were no better or worse than their nameless counterparts in other parts of the world. The same goes for those, the great majority, who merely stood by or who refused to know. Seen in this light, the notion that we should never forget the Holocaust takes on a new meaning. A terrible human price has been paid to build the modern world of liberal institutions we live in today. Let us therefore cherish it and teach our children and grandchildren to cherish it as well. It is a pearl of infinite price.

    I have come to the view that the Holocaust so far from being unique was in many ways an emblematic event in world history.

    It is unique, but not in a way that our leftist and quite often secular Jewish historians would like to think.

    The Holocaust is unique to the German people and character. Most peoples, when they wish to confronted the problems/tendencies of non-Covenant Jews either a)firmly ask them to leave, b)ask them to conform under threat of exporting them, or c)as our wilely Egyptians did, make them slaves. (God seems to frown up that later option as well, if the OT is any indication.)

    What most cultures/peoples do not do is violate the universal prohibition against murder of innocents and come up with a “Final Solution”. Germans and their close cousins the French have a strong streak of perfectionism in them. They are willing to go places in certain areas that most people shrug their shoulders over. The French, it’s their food and sometimes their military. The Germans, their theologies and then carrying them out.

    It’s not an accident, for instance that the Amish and the Mennonites are German in origin. You want a people serious about living their religion perfectly, whatever form that takes, it’s the Germans.

    The freakout is in the West, and particularly by secular Jews in the media, is that any culture could have done the Holocaust. While any of us could blacken our hearts to that level, it is not clear that just any old group would fail along those lines. It seems to be uniquely German and even unique to a particular era, even if the ugly impulse underneath it is timeless and universal.

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  56. @Luke Lea
    I have come to the view that the Holocaust so far from being unique was in many ways an emblematic event in world history. By that I mean that there was not a single crime or outrage committed against the Jewish people in Europe 1933-1945 that had not been committed countless times against equally innocent men, women, and children in various corners of the world in all known civilizations since history began (to say nothing of our pre-historical past, as in pre-Columbian America). It follows that the men and women in Germany and the rest of Europe who embraced and participated in the Holocaust were no better or worse than their nameless counterparts in other parts of the world. The same goes for those, the great majority, who merely stood by or who refused to know. Seen in this light, the notion that we should never forget the Holocaust takes on a new meaning. A terrible human price has been paid to build the modern world of liberal institutions we live in today. Let us therefore cherish it and teach our children and grandchildren to cherish it as well. It is a pearl of infinite price.

    It follows that the men and women in Germany and the rest of Europe who embraced and participated in the Holocaust were no better or worse than their nameless counterparts in other parts of the world.

    This statement can still be true, even if the Holocaust is unique, which I argued in a different post.

    Christianity teaches exactly this concept. The destiny of nations is built on a collective virtue. But Christianity says we all meet our maker as individuals. Did a secretary working at Auschwitz make to Heaven? Possibly. I don’t know enough to judge. What about 17 year old who joined the Nazis because he really just wanted the best for Germany and his family, without understanding the greater evil or implications? Ralph in the Sound of Music is an excellent example of such a boy/man.

    I think we’re pretty safe to say that an unrepentant Hitler is not in Heaven. But as Bugs Bunny points in cartoons from the era – “Everyone was somebody’s baby once”.

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  57. We live under Holocaust Tyranny. It is the new Western religion. It is a Death Cult.

    Far too little known, I think even here in the I-Steve World, is how many Germans (and other Europeans) have actually been prosecuted by the state, fined, lost jobs, etc., up to and including receiving heavy prison terms (years) for statements (!) near what this celebrated historian Rolf Peter Sieferle wrote.

    i.e.: Do Not Ever Diminish the Holocaust!! Heresy! Heresy!

    In 2014, 2,670 Germans were criminally charged under the Volksverhetzung Law (inciting to hatred) (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung), a large portion of whom will probably have been ‘Holocaust(ism) Dissidents’ (like Sieferle) (more precisely stated, heretics), some of whom are the famous “Deniers” who openly challenge the core tenets. Prison for them.

    By my quick calculation, at this prosecution rate (2,670/year), up to 0.3% of the entire German population will eventually be charged with Hate Crimes at some point in life (assuming no multiple prosecutions) (and prosecutions have been steadily rising). What percent did the later Soviet Union prosecute?

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    What percent did the later Soviet Union prosecute?
     
    My comparison a few threads ago was late communist Hungary, the "happiest barracks in the socialist camp", and my conclusion was that we are still freer than that, but moving towards more oppression, whereas 1980s Hungary was moving away from it. By that time very few people were prosecuted, usually opposition members just lost their jobs, were harassed, often arrested and/or beaten by the police, but mostly released without any charges.
  58. @Anon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4MH0OBy92Q

    Harvey milk was a huge advocate for Jim Jones

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  59. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @J1234

    Die Zeit called it a book of “brazen obscenity.” The Berliner Zeitung wrote of Mr. Sieferle’s “intellectual decline.” Süddeutsche Zeitung retracted its earlier praise. The Nonfiction Book of the Month list was suspended until further notice.
     
    The harder leftist Germans try to not be like Hitler, the more like Hitler they become. That's because we live in Paradox World.

    https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/g20/2010/06/29/calls_for_g20_inquiry_ratchet_up/g20_protests_turnugly.jpeg

    As such they march in lockstep with the SJWs in America who, in the name of stomping out all traces of “fascism” they become fascists themselves. Recall the Michael Cordeleone character in the movie Godfather I who said to his fiancee (after telling her how her father threatened to have someone killed) “I’m not my father” but winds up (in Godfather II ) to be far worse than his father ever was.

    All of life is a paradox and can only be understood with that notion in mind.

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  60. @IHTG

    Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans
     
    If I recall, in the climax of A Game of Shadows, the British villain attempts to have the German representative at an international summit assassinated to instigate a world war. He also successfully assassinates a number of other German VIPs over the course of the film. I don't think that's the kind of story a film attempting to project eternal German guilt into the past would tell.

    Not referring to the plot elements as much as the visual styling of the costumes and props of the German soldiers and their equipment in both movies, whether historically appropriate or not. The movie makers instantly “put on the Reich” as an immediately visually obvious trope that signifies menace and faceless mookery.

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    • Replies: @IHTG
    Maybe that's on account of the overlap between "putting on the Reich" and "putting on the Prussian".
  61. @Glaivester
    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.

    Modern Protestantism is so diverse and has had so many different theological threads in the last 500 years that ascribing one view of sin and forgiveness to it is impossible. But Lutheranism traditionally was very heavy on “sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura” (“by grace alone, through faith alone, through scripture alone”). None of the works of man could ever erase even the stain of original sin, nor fail to be tainted by sin, and all the world was destined to hell unless saved by grace.

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  62. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Hitler predicted that if Germany was defeated World War II, then the German people would decline into a subject race, and he was right. It just took a while.

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  63. @Hail
    We live under Holocaust Tyranny. It is the new Western religion. It is a Death Cult.

    Far too little known, I think even here in the I-Steve World, is how many Germans (and other Europeans) have actually been prosecuted by the state, fined, lost jobs, etc., up to and including receiving heavy prison terms (years) for statements (!) near what this celebrated historian Rolf Peter Sieferle wrote.

    i.e.: Do Not Ever Diminish the Holocaust!! Heresy! Heresy!

    In 2014, 2,670 Germans were criminally charged under the Volksverhetzung Law (inciting to hatred) (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung), a large portion of whom will probably have been 'Holocaust(ism) Dissidents' (like Sieferle) (more precisely stated, heretics), some of whom are the famous "Deniers" who openly challenge the core tenets. Prison for them.

    By my quick calculation, at this prosecution rate (2,670/year), up to 0.3% of the entire German population will eventually be charged with Hate Crimes at some point in life (assuming no multiple prosecutions) (and prosecutions have been steadily rising). What percent did the later Soviet Union prosecute?

    What percent did the later Soviet Union prosecute?

    My comparison a few threads ago was late communist Hungary, the “happiest barracks in the socialist camp”, and my conclusion was that we are still freer than that, but moving towards more oppression, whereas 1980s Hungary was moving away from it. By that time very few people were prosecuted, usually opposition members just lost their jobs, were harassed, often arrested and/or beaten by the police, but mostly released without any charges.

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  64. @reiner Tor
    Part of the reason Holocaustianity became the biggest religion in Germany was that the Germans expected the very worst (mostly Jewish) revenge after 1945. When that revenge didn't come, or at least was way milder than what the Germans expected, they started praising the Jews for their perceived magnanimity. (Nobody understood that the revenge wasn't yet over, or that it hadn't yet started then.)

    Nobody understood that the revenge wasn’t yet over, or that it hadn’t yet started then.

    Very insightful!

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  65. @Hockamaw
    Pretty remarkable piece, and quite a conclusion as well:

    Whatever becomes of Mr. Sieferle’s reputation, the scandal around him reveals certain unsuspected problems. When the German literary establishment unanimously denounced Mr. Sieferle’s work as an extremist tract, readers did not nod in agreement. They pulled out their wallets and said, “That must be the book for me.” This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels, possibly American ones.
     
    The horror..

    I agree, Caldwell’s article is spot on.

    And with blogger Michael Klonovsky (his great (!) blog is called “acta diurna” and features some of Sieferle’s really interesting and important writing), Caldwell hints at a nowadays leading German intellectual, which in itself is a real achievement. I’d say: I’m surprised to read this piece by Caldwell in the NYT. Big surprise – and very welcome indeed!

    This article is remarkable too, because Calwell’s view of Sieferele’s Migration-critique is not only correct (I’ve read all of Sieferle’s articles and both of his books on this subject), but also a harsh critique of the German mainstream-reception of Sieferle’s thoughts, which was completely repudiant. Be it in Die Zeit, Süddeutsche (Munich) , Frankfurter Rundschau, Frankfurter Allgemeine or Der Spiegel.
    Der Spiegel ran three (!) articles against Sieferele, one dumber than the other; dito. Die Zeit and the FAZ.

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski, both cited by Caldwell. I count myself in, I’ve even written in comments on this blog in defence of Sieferle, but on quite a few German blogs too: For example in the comments on the FAZ blog of Don Alphonso, on perlentaucher and the Berlin blog aisthesis.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski...
     
    Those two don't sound very German, thus, those two won't sound very German.
  66. How exactly does Holocaust guilt translate into importing millions of Muslims intent on killing Jews? Can someone explain how that works? It does not make sense to me. If anything, Holocaust guilt would make Germans prevent Muslims who HATE HATE HATE Jews and want to kill them from entering not only Germany but Europe, as part of atonement. And penance.

    Nope, wrong issue. The real issue is European women having the tingles down there for all sorts of abusive, low IQ men that they can’t get enough of, really. And it will end badly. Western men have a weakness, it is the indulgence of female histrionics and idiocy instead of the non-White back of the hand that is given for anything female, even or especially the mildest of innately decent human desires.

    Germany is filled with millions and millions of welfare burden Muslims not because of Holocaust guilt of which most Germans just don’t care at all — but because they indulge their stupid sluts and cat ladies (the one ages into the other) and their eternal desire for dumb young violent males.

    Eventually the example of young violent Muslim men doing what they want when they want with no consequence will obliterate the habits of duty and obedience on younger German men who will see how their own women react to this and up the ante. What happens in Germany when most German men act like Muslim men, except of course not being Muslim?

    [The taboo on discussing the burden of Muslim/African men is similar to the one that women put upon discussing their abusive boyfriends. "He only hits me because he loves me and he really, really scares other men which gives me a thrill!"]

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  67. @Thomas
    Not referring to the plot elements as much as the visual styling of the costumes and props of the German soldiers and their equipment in both movies, whether historically appropriate or not. The movie makers instantly "put on the Reich" as an immediately visually obvious trope that signifies menace and faceless mookery.

    Maybe that’s on account of the overlap between “putting on the Reich” and “putting on the Prussian”.

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  68. @RealSimon
    @isteve
    What did you mean by : "Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history." ?


    Based on what Mr Sailer has written in the past about violent Polish colonialism (there was none – violent or otherwise) then I suppose he’s making the point that the violence of Australian expansionism made the violence of American expansionism seem relatively benign.

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  69. @Hockamaw
    Pretty remarkable piece, and quite a conclusion as well:

    Whatever becomes of Mr. Sieferle’s reputation, the scandal around him reveals certain unsuspected problems. When the German literary establishment unanimously denounced Mr. Sieferle’s work as an extremist tract, readers did not nod in agreement. They pulled out their wallets and said, “That must be the book for me.” This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels, possibly American ones.
     
    The horror..

    Germans buy a lot of books.

    But they don’t make a lot of babies. And that is that.

    “Finis Germania”

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  70. @Erik Sieven
    concerning migration and the whole problem with violent black / muslim expansion Germany is STILL better off than UK, France or the USA. So it makes no sense to search for special reasons for what happened in Germany in the last few years. It is the same in all western countries, and it certainly has nothing to do with WW II, as both winners and losers of this war now face the same problems.

    The governing-classes and ruling-elites of Germany are ruining the country because of guilt over Hitler and Nazism and the holocaust. The governing-classes and ruling-elites of the UK and France are ruining their nations because of guilt over slavery and colonialism. The governing-classes and ruling-elites of the U.S. are ruining the country because of guilt over slavery and segregation and, to a lesser degree, the dispossession and “genocide” of “native-Americans.” And in the U.S., far more so than in the UK and France, the influence and power of Jews is crucial in “electing a new people” and creating a nonwhite-majority country, both as a strategy to prevent the rise of a Nazi-like regimes and as vengance against while gentiles for Nazism and the holocaust and for centuries of Christian anti-Jewish discrimination.

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Humans appear to be unique among living beings in our ability to modify our habitat options. The vast majority of plants and creatures appear to be "price takers". To some extent, humans are price makers, meaning we can modify the supply and demand for commodities, essential and otherwise.
  71. @Thomas

    In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.
     
    I just happened to watch Wonder Woman in the theaters recently, and the demonization of Germans as Nazi devils now works backwards into history as well, applying Nazi imagery and overtones to WWI Germans. (Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows was good for this too, projecting the Nazi archetype even further back onto 1891 Germans.) Look in particular for the WWI German encampment a set designer gave the distinctive barbed wire perimeter fence of Auschwitz.

    I was just reminded of another website I once read (which I'm not linking to but had themes that might be appreciated by readers of this blog) that had this observation long ago:


    It is no accident that the Protestant Reformation/Revolution began in Germany.

    The Catholic notion of forgiveness was insupportable. Sin was immortal and could not be forgiven - ever!

    Salvation could come only if each German nailed himself to a cross and perished for his sins
     

    .

    Constructing narratives to retcon history appears to be a Jewish specialty, which one might suspect is part of a population strategy.

    The “Nazi” narrative is one; the “huddled masses” is another. It goes back much farther, apparently:

    See Russell Gmirkin’s books on the authorship and time frame of the Pentateuch, in which he offers compelling textual evidence that they were penned in Alexandria in the 3rd century BC, out of Berossus, Manetho, and Plato. Andrew Joyce wrote a nice piece about all that at TOO in January.

    I have been in settings where people with supposed academic credentials argue with a straight face that Cro-Magnons/Homo heidelbergensis were the ur-Nazi devils. The original sin goes back that far, you see. As soon as there was a Teuton, there Nazi was born.

    But this doesn’t hold for any other race, plus genetics isn’t really real where race is concerned! Only Germans, which is to say NAZIS!

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  72. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Sid
    Right. As a counterexample, you'd think that America's long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a "nation of immigrants," and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.

    And yes, the globalists do use those arguments here. Then they go ahead and use different arguments for why Europeans must take in an unlimited number of Africans and Muslims. After all, Britain and France have a history of colonialism or something.

    Then you look at countries like Sweden, which has a rather slim history of migration, not much colonialism beyond the Baltic, was neutral during WWII, and wasn't involved in the War in Iraq. But they still are expected to take in the entire population of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Nigeria.

    Different arguments. Different words. Same pattern. Same results.

    They always come up with a different argument but the objective is ALWAYS the same. The destruction of white nations.

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  73. @Lot
    Caldwell is a treasure. Amazing to see him in the NYT.

    His book on the Muslim takeover of Europe.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflections_on_the_Revolution_in_Europe

    Yes, mass Muslim migration will be the end of free speech.


    --According to Caldwell, "the most chilling observation" in Reflections on the Revolution in Europe is that " the debate over Muslim immigration in Europe is one that the continent can’t openly have, because anyone remotely critical of Islam is branded as Islamophobic. Europe’s citizens — as well as its leaders, its artists and, crucially, its satirists — are scared to speak because of a demonstrated willingness by Islam’s fanatics to commit violence against their perceived opponents. There exists, Mr. Caldwell writes, a kind of "standing fatwa" against Islam’s critics".--

    Germany's mass migration of Muslims pretty much all go on welfare:

    --Caldwell cuts to shreds the conventional wisdom of the "immigrationist" ideology - the view that mass immigration is inevitable and in any case a necessary injection of youth into our ageing continent. He shows, contrary to the immigrationists, that the flows of recent decades are unprecedented. He also demolishes the economic and welfare- state arguments for mass immigration... One of the most startling figures in the book is that the number of foreign residents in Germany rose from 3 million to 7.5 million between 1971 and 2000 but the number of employed foreigners stayed the same at 2 million."--

    7.5 million in 2009, how many now?

    Thanks Lot–two excellent comments in a row.

    Germania, the Reformation and the chance to seize Church property–important point sometimes overlooked.

    And completely agree on Caldwell’s “Reflections on the Revolution in Europe”–a terrific book. The basic themes and argument are well known/understood by readers of Steve’s blog, but if you’re having a pleasant sunshiny day, and need a dose of realistic depression, it will do the trick.

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  74. I have been thinking about this for a while. I’ve been reading Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago and he talks about the Russian people not confronting the sins of the stalinist camps and the gulags and how that will damage them as a people and he compares them to the Germans who are acknowledging their past. But now I look at the result of these actions from both countries and the Germans are suicidal and the Russians are thriving. I greatly admire Solzhenitsyn but I think he may have been wrong about this one

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Solzhenitsyn was wrong, no one should adopt the attitude Germans have taken on about their own history and country. It's one thing to acknowledge the crimes committed by your nation and try to make amends for them as best as possible, I'm all for that (and arguably in some ways Germany may not have done enough in that regard, post-war German behaviour regarding reparations to countries like Greece or compensation for former forced labourers wasn't always exemplary). It's quite another to make a narrative of ever-lasting guilt (and it is guilt, even if the proponents of that view like to use euphemisms like "responsibility") the permanent basis of your own identity. The latter sets you up to become a victim to other groups who don't have such scruples.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I agree with you. People criticize the Japanese for insufficiently acknowledging their guilt from World War II, but I think they're better off not dwelling on it. Therapists advise people not to dwell endlessly on their guilt over past mistakes or misdeeds because it's ultimately self-destructive. You have to forgive yourself, resolve to do better, and move on. As with people, so with nations.
  75. @RealSimon
    @isteve
    What did you mean by : "Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history." ?

    What did you mean by : “Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history.” ?

    If you read what immediately preceded Steve’s thought:

    “There are un-tragic peoples,” he writes, “whom history pearls off of like water from a well-polished boot.” He means the English and Americans, who have always tried to pass off their oligarchies as cradles of democracy.

    Then you get it. As good as the situation in America was, we had the “legacy of slavery” and the Civil War. Compared to that Australia really is a place “whom history pearls off of like water from a well polished boot”. Sure some bad treatment of the aboriginals, and the tales of penal Australian horrors, but really a very nice uncomplicated place with *no* land borders. White Australia was paradise. Of course, the wreckers just had to get to it too–because no white nation can be allowed to be white–and are quickly running it into the ground as well.

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  76. @Sunbeam
    "Australian history, by the way, makes American history read like Polish history."

    What's the short version of this, because I literally have no idea of what this statement is supposed to mean.

    Unless it is something about neighboring countries, which I suppose the US actually does have more of than Australia.

    I suppose it means US history is more tragic than Australian history. The US did have that horrible civil war after all.
    Australian history is rather bland by contrast.

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  77. @Whitney
    I have been thinking about this for a while. I've been reading Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago and he talks about the Russian people not confronting the sins of the stalinist camps and the gulags and how that will damage them as a people and he compares them to the Germans who are acknowledging their past. But now I look at the result of these actions from both countries and the Germans are suicidal and the Russians are thriving. I greatly admire Solzhenitsyn but I think he may have been wrong about this one

    Solzhenitsyn was wrong, no one should adopt the attitude Germans have taken on about their own history and country. It’s one thing to acknowledge the crimes committed by your nation and try to make amends for them as best as possible, I’m all for that (and arguably in some ways Germany may not have done enough in that regard, post-war German behaviour regarding reparations to countries like Greece or compensation for former forced labourers wasn’t always exemplary). It’s quite another to make a narrative of ever-lasting guilt (and it is guilt, even if the proponents of that view like to use euphemisms like “responsibility”) the permanent basis of your own identity. The latter sets you up to become a victim to other groups who don’t have such scruples.

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  78. @Autochthon

    [T]he title plays on a phrase meaning “the end of Germany...."
     
    That the writer felt compelled to explain this fact indicates the utter ruin of modern civilisation. The meaning of the term Finis Germania is so obvious to anyone with an average European intelligence and a rudimentary education it is the kind of thing that Groucho Marx (in You Bet Your Life) or the guests of What's My Line? might have used in banter without a second thought, and which their working-class viewers would have understood effortlessly.

    Nevermind rudimentary education: it used to be that to be educated at the collegiate level meant (de minimis) familiarity with Latin, Greek, geography, history, and Newtonian physics. Now it means familiarity with bogus concepts like intersectionality, cisgender, and white privilege – and little else. I expect the typical graduate of a college in 2017 does not know the quadratic formula (much less how to apply it to solve problems); the capital of Turkey; or the relationships among Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Alexander. The man-on-the-street bits people like Mark Dice do confirms many don't even know basic facts such as the year the U.S.A. declared independence.

    What's more – and far more evil than mere ignorance of facts – people now believe falsehoods: Alexander Hamilton was a Negro president; males who castrate themselves become females, etc.
     
     
     

    Actually shouldn’t it be “Finis Germaniae”? You need the genitive.

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Yes, but apparently Sieferle chose that "incorrect" title intentionally (don't know exactly why, something about unsettling and irritating the reader iirc).
  79. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Autochthon

    [T]he title plays on a phrase meaning “the end of Germany...."
     
    That the writer felt compelled to explain this fact indicates the utter ruin of modern civilisation. The meaning of the term Finis Germania is so obvious to anyone with an average European intelligence and a rudimentary education it is the kind of thing that Groucho Marx (in You Bet Your Life) or the guests of What's My Line? might have used in banter without a second thought, and which their working-class viewers would have understood effortlessly.

    Nevermind rudimentary education: it used to be that to be educated at the collegiate level meant (de minimis) familiarity with Latin, Greek, geography, history, and Newtonian physics. Now it means familiarity with bogus concepts like intersectionality, cisgender, and white privilege – and little else. I expect the typical graduate of a college in 2017 does not know the quadratic formula (much less how to apply it to solve problems); the capital of Turkey; or the relationships among Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and Alexander. The man-on-the-street bits people like Mark Dice do confirms many don't even know basic facts such as the year the U.S.A. declared independence.

    What's more – and far more evil than mere ignorance of facts – people now believe falsehoods: Alexander Hamilton was a Negro president; males who castrate themselves become females, etc.
     
     
     

    Only it doesn’t mean the “end of Germany”; that would be finis Germaniae. What finis Germania means is less clear, unless something like “Germany is the limit”.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    The original writer – who apparantly understands Latin – seems to be making a pun of sorts, but Mr. Caldwell isn't explaining the pun (which would also be lamentably unnecessary); he is explaining the very lemma of each word.

    Sad.
  80. @El Dato
    Actually shouldn't it be "Finis Germaniae"? You need the genitive.

    Yes, but apparently Sieferle chose that “incorrect” title intentionally (don’t know exactly why, something about unsettling and irritating the reader iirc).

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    • Replies: @Hail
    A German journalist writes:

    Ende Der Titel "Finis Germania" 'könnte auf eine Genitiv-Schwäche hindeuten. Wenn Rolf Peter Sieferle das Ende Deutschlands meinte, hätte er gramatikalisch korrekt vom "Finis Germaniae" sprechen müssen. Mit diesen Worten kommentierte Reichskanzler Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg im Ersten Weltkrieg sarkastisch den Beginn des uneingeschränken U-Boot-Kriegs durch Deutschland, der seiner Meinung nach zum Kriegseintritt der USA und der Niederlage des Deutschen Reichs führen musste. Doch Sieferle war offenbar lateinfest. Der Historiker lehrte Neuere Geschichte an der Universität Mannheim und später in St. Gallen. Seine Formulierung, so wird im Netz orakelt, muss einen Hintersinn haben. "Finis Germania": Deutschland Ende. Meinte Sieferle vielleicht quasi-vokativisch "Schluss jetzt, Germania"? Oder "Das Höchste (ist) Deutschland"?
     
    In other words, while clearly an homage to the phrase "Finis Germaniae" (The End of Germany), as written it can only be taken literally as two Latin words devoid of grammar. What does it say?

    "Finis! Germania!" -- which suggests 'Enough Already' (Schluss Jetzt!)

  81. @Anon
    Only it doesn't mean the "end of Germany"; that would be finis Germaniae. What finis Germania means is less clear, unless something like "Germany is the limit".

    The original writer – who apparantly understands Latin – seems to be making a pun of sorts, but Mr. Caldwell isn’t explaining the pun (which would also be lamentably unnecessary); he is explaining the very lemma of each word.

    Sad.

    Read More
  82. @SMK
    The governing-classes and ruling-elites of Germany are ruining the country because of guilt over Hitler and Nazism and the holocaust. The governing-classes and ruling-elites of the UK and France are ruining their nations because of guilt over slavery and colonialism. The governing-classes and ruling-elites of the U.S. are ruining the country because of guilt over slavery and segregation and, to a lesser degree, the dispossession and "genocide" of "native-Americans." And in the U.S., far more so than in the UK and France, the influence and power of Jews is crucial in "electing a new people" and creating a nonwhite-majority country, both as a strategy to prevent the rise of a Nazi-like regimes and as vengance against while gentiles for Nazism and the holocaust and for centuries of Christian anti-Jewish discrimination.

    Humans appear to be unique among living beings in our ability to modify our habitat options. The vast majority of plants and creatures appear to be “price takers”. To some extent, humans are price makers, meaning we can modify the supply and demand for commodities, essential and otherwise.

    Read More
  83. @Dieter Kief
    I agree, Caldwell's article is spot on.

    And with blogger Michael Klonovsky (his great (!) blog is called "acta diurna" and features some of Sieferle's really interesting and important writing), Caldwell hints at a nowadays leading German intellectual, which in itself is a real achievement. I'd say: I'm surprised to read this piece by Caldwell in the NYT. Big surprise - and very welcome indeed!

    This article is remarkable too, because Calwell's view of Sieferele's Migration-critique is not only correct (I've read all of Sieferle's articles and both of his books on this subject), but also a harsh critique of the German mainstream-reception of Sieferle's thoughts, which was completely repudiant. Be it in Die Zeit, Süddeutsche (Munich) , Frankfurter Rundschau, Frankfurter Allgemeine or Der Spiegel.
    Der Spiegel ran three (!) articles against Sieferele, one dumber than the other; dito. Die Zeit and the FAZ.

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski, both cited by Caldwell. I count myself in, I've even written in comments on this blog in defence of Sieferle, but on quite a few German blogs too: For example in the comments on the FAZ blog of Don Alphonso, on perlentaucher and the Berlin blog aisthesis.

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski

    Those two don’t sound very German, thus, those two won’t sound very German.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief

    Those two (Safranski and Klonovsky, DK) don’t sound very German, thus, those two won’t sound very German.
     
    Uhh - you're not as wrong as some might think. Background of their dissident thoughts on Sieferle's widely denounced Holocaust-instrumentalization-critique is as follows:

    Safranski was once part of the radical left - and therefor knows from experience, how easy it is in Germany to blame someone as Nazi.

    And Klonovsky grew up in the German Democratic Republic - and was thrown out of the university and had to do construction work afterwards, while hearing day in day out, that the German Democraticc Republic was the better Germany, because it was really anti-Fascist, while Western Germany was only seemingly anti-Fascist, but in reality the Republlic of the Hitler-Elites, who were still in power there...

    Then there is something else: Klonovsky and Safranski are educated and cultured men. Which means in the end: Able to read and understand complex texts as Sieferle's. The thing is indeed a little bit complex, because Sieferle does not reflect on the Holocaust so much, but on the Holocaust as something, which's consequences for the German mentality are now a big obstancle for the German public to deal with the migration question in a reasonable way.

    That Christopher Caldwell does get that stuff quite right and managed to get it published in the NYT is a miracle of sorts - and made my day, yesterday!

    , @reiner Tor
    SS General Erich von dem Bach (born von Zelewski), Wehrmacht General Erich von Manstein (born Erich von Lewinski), there are other similar examples.
  84. @oneeyed
    Caldwell's great.

    oneeyed:

    I agree that Caldwell is great, despite the fact that he is associated with the neocon Weekly Standard and being a Harvard grad.

    Perhaps some of the innate conservative grittiness of his late father-in-law Bob Novak rubbed off and keeps coming to the fore.

    More than a few years ago he had a NYT article which perceptively described the spiritual devastation of modern day Ireland.

    Read More
  85. @Whitney
    I have been thinking about this for a while. I've been reading Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago and he talks about the Russian people not confronting the sins of the stalinist camps and the gulags and how that will damage them as a people and he compares them to the Germans who are acknowledging their past. But now I look at the result of these actions from both countries and the Germans are suicidal and the Russians are thriving. I greatly admire Solzhenitsyn but I think he may have been wrong about this one

    I agree with you. People criticize the Japanese for insufficiently acknowledging their guilt from World War II, but I think they’re better off not dwelling on it. Therapists advise people not to dwell endlessly on their guilt over past mistakes or misdeeds because it’s ultimately self-destructive. You have to forgive yourself, resolve to do better, and move on. As with people, so with nations.

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  86. @Autochthon
    The original writer – who apparantly understands Latin – seems to be making a pun of sorts, but Mr. Caldwell isn't explaining the pun (which would also be lamentably unnecessary); he is explaining the very lemma of each word.

    Sad.

    Sad?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    I was mildly imitating Mr. Trump's mannerism; my point is that it is a sad thing that people need explained to them that the phrase finis Germania suggests the end of Germany. (The end of Germany itself is also, of course, inifinitely sadder, but the two phenomena are inextricably related....)
  87. @Opinionator
    Sad?

    I was mildly imitating Mr. Trump’s mannerism; my point is that it is a sad thing that people need explained to them that the phrase finis Germania suggests the end of Germany. (The end of Germany itself is also, of course, inifinitely sadder, but the two phenomena are inextricably related….)

    Read More
  88. @Autochthon
    I was mildly imitating Mr. Trump's mannerism; my point is that it is a sad thing that people need explained to them that the phrase finis Germania suggests the end of Germany. (The end of Germany itself is also, of course, inifinitely sadder, but the two phenomena are inextricably related....)

    Got it.

    Read More
  89. @Rosamond Vincy
    OK, that's just plain weird. Hitler even boasted that he could get away with his plans because "who now remembers the Massacre of the Armenians?"

    OK, that’s just plain weird. Hitler even boasted that he could get away with his plans because “who now remembers the Massacre of the Armenians?”

    You’re right from the perspective of Hitler. And the Jews opposing the Armenian massacres the “Holocuast”-status are right from the perspective of those who look at the Holocaust as a kind of brand, which’s power would be weakened, if it appeared, that it’s not the first – or the only one – of it’s kind. That’s – quite ironically – the culture-industries’ (Frankfurt-School term) imperative: The more exclusive something seems to be, the more desirable and powerful is it.

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  90. @Reg Cæsar

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski...
     
    Those two don't sound very German, thus, those two won't sound very German.

    Those two (Safranski and Klonovsky, DK) don’t sound very German, thus, those two won’t sound very German.

    Uhh – you’re not as wrong as some might think. Background of their dissident thoughts on Sieferle’s widely denounced Holocaust-instrumentalization-critique is as follows:

    Safranski was once part of the radical left – and therefor knows from experience, how easy it is in Germany to blame someone as Nazi.

    And Klonovsky grew up in the German Democratic Republic – and was thrown out of the university and had to do construction work afterwards, while hearing day in day out, that the German Democraticc Republic was the better Germany, because it was really anti-Fascist, while Western Germany was only seemingly anti-Fascist, but in reality the Republlic of the Hitler-Elites, who were still in power there…

    Then there is something else: Klonovsky and Safranski are educated and cultured men. Which means in the end: Able to read and understand complex texts as Sieferle’s. The thing is indeed a little bit complex, because Sieferle does not reflect on the Holocaust so much, but on the Holocaust as something, which’s consequences for the German mentality are now a big obstancle for the German public to deal with the migration question in a reasonable way.

    That Christopher Caldwell does get that stuff quite right and managed to get it published in the NYT is a miracle of sorts – and made my day, yesterday!

    Read More
    • Agree: Hail
    • Replies: @Autochthon

    [T]he German Democraticc Republic was the better Germany, because it was really anti-Fascist, while Western Germany was only seemingly anti-Fascist, but in reality the Republlic of the Hitler-Elites, who were still in power there….
     
    It turns out this assessment, if not true then, is true now, if we assume a hypothetical eastern Germany today to've become similar to Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Russia, etc.
    , @Hail

    Sieferle does not reflect on the Holocaust so much, but on the Holocaust as something, which’s consequences for the German mentality are now a big obstancle for the German public
     
    He literally would have risked prison time had he done so.
  91. From the New York Times article:

    “In every city Christianity had built cathedrals to its murdered God,” Mr. Sieferle writes. “Today, the Jews, to whom God himself had promised eternity, build memorials throughout the world to their murdered coreligionists. Not only are the victims ascribed a moral superiority, the wrongdoers and their symbols are ascribed an eternal depravity.”

    “Finis Germania” …

    Steve, your post jogged my memory of a (PBS?) profile on conductor Zubin Mehta which showed scenes from a German opera. The set was stark white neoclassical antiquity. In the clip, IIRC, a resolute chorus of men and women draped in white—each singer, arms outstretched, hands grasping downward pointed medieval swords.

    Above, a huge legend in relief: GERMANIA NOSTRA.

    I remember the short clip as being powerful and beautiful.

    Some googling reveals the opera was a production of Wagner’s Tannhäuser. I’ve condensed chronological snips from a Forward article from 2004:

    Rethinking Wagner in the Operatic Heart of ‘Germania’

    When [Peter] Jonas took his position [as general director] at the Bavarian State Opera in 1993, his welcome was not immediate. “The first few years were really difficult,” he said, recalling his initial reception in Munich, “because of prejudice and racism, coming from England, and with a German-Jewish background.”

    Nonetheless, he stuck to his ideals. In his first season, he hired American director David Alden and two Israeli designers, Roni Toren (sets) and Buki Shiff (costumes), for what turned out to be a landmark new production of Wagner’s “Tannhäuser.” Radically reworking the plot, Wagner’s mythic struggle between “holy German art” and the pleasures of the flesh was deliberately deconstructed as an inner battle for the German soul, focusing on the nightmarish Nazi past.

    A huge sign reading “Germania Nostra” was hung over the performers; shocking symbols recalled the Nazi period and the set in the last act was eerily suggestive of the pierced entrance wall of a concentration camp. (The production can be seen on DVD, conducted by Jonas’s music director, Zubin Mehta.)

    “We deliberately use the word ‘Germania,’ the idea, the seeking of pan-Germanism, as opposed to ‘Deutschland,’ the place,” he explained. “When those words ‘Germania Nostra’ appear in the second act, look at the faces around you and you will see the shock of recognition.”

    Germania could conceptually cover a lot of ‘guilty people’—Central Europe plus the English, Scandinavians, Franks—throw in some neoclassical set design and all Europeans (past, present, future) might be the subject here.

    It was with great anticipation, then, that an entirely new production of “Die Meistersinger” debuted last month. Unlike “Tannhäuser,” this new “Meistersinger” does not rewrite the plot. Rather, director Thomas Langhoff has stripped the work of all reminders of faux-medieval Germany and plunked it down in the internationalized present.

    However, as usual, Jonas goes further by invoking Germany’s dark past. The riot in the second act, normally filled with tame midsummer-night hijinks, instead features skinheads wearing S.S. T-shirts and wreaking havoc, leaving their victims in need of bandages through the final act.

    The thugs even return during the triumphant finale, ready to exploit any momentary lapse to unleash their violence and terror. The skinheads are the only specifically German element now left onstage, in an opera normally smothered in German symbols.

    Waggishly, Jonas defends his iconoclasm by quoting Wagner himself: “Kinder, macht neues! Neues! Und abermals neues!” (“Children, make new! New! And always new!”)

    With “waggish” cultural enrichers like these, who needs enemies?

    At Jonas’s insistence, one of the highlights of Munich’s July Festival this summer was a gala klezmer concert to benefit the new Jewish Center under construction in the heart of the city. Together with Mehta, he has arranged important opportunities for many talented Jewish and Israeli artists.

    The Bavarian State Opera’s graphics during his tenure have been the work of Pierre Mendel, and one of Jonas’s proudest accomplishments is that nine of Mendel’s posters are in the permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York. Mendel had escaped the Nazis, getting to America; he was sent back to Munich as a G.I. and decided to stay.

    Despite the controversies his productions have aroused — or perhaps because of them — he has affected the hearts and minds of Bavaria to a remarkable extent, and even may be said to be beloved. But he says his philosophy remains simple: “One word: survival.”

    Who/whom will never die.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Hitler purportedly planned to rename Berlin "Germania". I read that he actually just fleetingly mentioned it twice, which might have been tongue in cheek, and it is far from certain that he actually planned to rename the city, but it's often mentioned.
  92. @Dieter Kief

    Those two (Safranski and Klonovsky, DK) don’t sound very German, thus, those two won’t sound very German.
     
    Uhh - you're not as wrong as some might think. Background of their dissident thoughts on Sieferle's widely denounced Holocaust-instrumentalization-critique is as follows:

    Safranski was once part of the radical left - and therefor knows from experience, how easy it is in Germany to blame someone as Nazi.

    And Klonovsky grew up in the German Democratic Republic - and was thrown out of the university and had to do construction work afterwards, while hearing day in day out, that the German Democraticc Republic was the better Germany, because it was really anti-Fascist, while Western Germany was only seemingly anti-Fascist, but in reality the Republlic of the Hitler-Elites, who were still in power there...

    Then there is something else: Klonovsky and Safranski are educated and cultured men. Which means in the end: Able to read and understand complex texts as Sieferle's. The thing is indeed a little bit complex, because Sieferle does not reflect on the Holocaust so much, but on the Holocaust as something, which's consequences for the German mentality are now a big obstancle for the German public to deal with the migration question in a reasonable way.

    That Christopher Caldwell does get that stuff quite right and managed to get it published in the NYT is a miracle of sorts - and made my day, yesterday!

    [T]he German Democraticc Republic was the better Germany, because it was really anti-Fascist, while Western Germany was only seemingly anti-Fascist, but in reality the Republlic of the Hitler-Elites, who were still in power there….

    It turns out this assessment, if not true then, is true now, if we assume a hypothetical eastern Germany today to’ve become similar to Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Russia, etc.

    Read More
  93. Another very good piece by Caldwell that is out of step with the neocon line

    How to Think About Vladimir Putin

    https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/how-to-think-about-vladimir-putin/

    Read More
  94. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    From the New York Times article:

    “In every city Christianity had built cathedrals to its murdered God,” Mr. Sieferle writes. “Today, the Jews, to whom God himself had promised eternity, build memorials throughout the world to their murdered coreligionists. Not only are the victims ascribed a moral superiority, the wrongdoers and their symbols are ascribed an eternal depravity.”
     
    “Finis Germania” …

    Steve, your post jogged my memory of a (PBS?) profile on conductor Zubin Mehta which showed scenes from a German opera. The set was stark white neoclassical antiquity. In the clip, IIRC, a resolute chorus of men and women draped in white—each singer, arms outstretched, hands grasping downward pointed medieval swords.

    Above, a huge legend in relief: GERMANIA NOSTRA.

    I remember the short clip as being powerful and beautiful.

    Some googling reveals the opera was a production of Wagner’s Tannhäuser. I've condensed chronological snips from a Forward article from 2004:

    Rethinking Wagner in the Operatic Heart of ‘Germania’

    When [Peter] Jonas took his position [as general director] at the Bavarian State Opera in 1993, his welcome was not immediate. “The first few years were really difficult,” he said, recalling his initial reception in Munich, “because of prejudice and racism, coming from England, and with a German-Jewish background.”

    Nonetheless, he stuck to his ideals. In his first season, he hired American director David Alden and two Israeli designers, Roni Toren (sets) and Buki Shiff (costumes), for what turned out to be a landmark new production of Wagner’s “Tannhäuser.” Radically reworking the plot, Wagner’s mythic struggle between “holy German art” and the pleasures of the flesh was deliberately deconstructed as an inner battle for the German soul, focusing on the nightmarish Nazi past.

    A huge sign reading “Germania Nostra” was hung over the performers; shocking symbols recalled the Nazi period and the set in the last act was eerily suggestive of the pierced entrance wall of a concentration camp. (The production can be seen on DVD, conducted by Jonas’s music director, Zubin Mehta.)

    “We deliberately use the word ‘Germania,’ the idea, the seeking of pan-Germanism, as opposed to ‘Deutschland,’ the place,” he explained. “When those words ‘Germania Nostra’ appear in the second act, look at the faces around you and you will see the shock of recognition.”
     
    Germania could conceptually cover a lot of ‘guilty people’—Central Europe plus the English, Scandinavians, Franks—throw in some neoclassical set design and all Europeans (past, present, future) might be the subject here.

    It was with great anticipation, then, that an entirely new production of “Die Meistersinger” debuted last month. Unlike “Tannhäuser,” this new “Meistersinger” does not rewrite the plot. Rather, director Thomas Langhoff has stripped the work of all reminders of faux-medieval Germany and plunked it down in the internationalized present.

    However, as usual, Jonas goes further by invoking Germany’s dark past. The riot in the second act, normally filled with tame midsummer-night hijinks, instead features skinheads wearing S.S. T-shirts and wreaking havoc, leaving their victims in need of bandages through the final act.

    The thugs even return during the triumphant finale, ready to exploit any momentary lapse to unleash their violence and terror. The skinheads are the only specifically German element now left onstage, in an opera normally smothered in German symbols.

    Waggishly, Jonas defends his iconoclasm by quoting Wagner himself: “Kinder, macht neues! Neues! Und abermals neues!” (“Children, make new! New! And always new!”)
     
    With “waggish” cultural enrichers like these, who needs enemies?

    At Jonas’s insistence, one of the highlights of Munich’s July Festival this summer was a gala klezmer concert to benefit the new Jewish Center under construction in the heart of the city. Together with Mehta, he has arranged important opportunities for many talented Jewish and Israeli artists.

    The Bavarian State Opera’s graphics during his tenure have been the work of Pierre Mendel, and one of Jonas’s proudest accomplishments is that nine of Mendel’s posters are in the permanent collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York. Mendel had escaped the Nazis, getting to America; he was sent back to Munich as a G.I. and decided to stay.

    Despite the controversies his productions have aroused — or perhaps because of them — he has affected the hearts and minds of Bavaria to a remarkable extent, and even may be said to be beloved. But he says his philosophy remains simple: “One word: survival.”
     
    Who/whom will never die.

    Hitler purportedly planned to rename Berlin “Germania”. I read that he actually just fleetingly mentioned it twice, which might have been tongue in cheek, and it is far from certain that he actually planned to rename the city, but it’s often mentioned.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hail

    far from certain...but it’s often mentioned.
     
    These words could appear as a disclaimer, asterisked in, to many of the assertions about Hitler and the Nazis.

    It is not a coincidence, I think, the most common nation/state associated with flying saucer conspiracy theories, besides the USA (Roswell, Area 51), seems certainly to be Nazi Germany, a state that ceased to exist over 72 years ago now.
  95. @Reg Cæsar

    Voices of reason were just a few. Most prominent was the brilliant maverick Michael Klonovsky and the prestigious Rüdiger Safranski...
     
    Those two don't sound very German, thus, those two won't sound very German.

    SS General Erich von dem Bach (born von Zelewski), Wehrmacht General Erich von Manstein (born Erich von Lewinski), there are other similar examples.

    Read More
  96. That luck is fast running out.

    The country has the largest per capita immigration intake in the Western world, with most new migrants coming from the populous Asian giants. Prominent Australian historian Geoffrey Blainey was pilloried three decades ago for warning that Australian elites had “moved from the extreme of wanting a white Australia to the extreme of saying that we will have an Asian Australia and that the quicker we move towards it the better.” But Blainey was right and now the country’s still mainly Anglo-Celtic political and media classes openly celebrate Australia’s rapid demographic transformation.

    Massive immigration-fuelled population growth has inflated headline GDP figures, allowing Australian governments to brag about 25 years of uninterrupted expansion. In truth, the Australian economy is weak and increasingly vulnerable to external shocks. Growth in GDP per capita is weak. Public and private debt levels have ballooned. Housing is among the most unaffordable in the Western world. The manufacturing sector has been basically wiped out. The country’s export profile increasingly resembles that of a Third World banana republic, selling minerals along with farmland, real estate and visas to the Chinese.

    Admittedly, my assessment may be overly pessimistic but I think there is a growing sense here in Australia that all is not well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ralph Highroller
    Above comment was in response to BenjaminL's statement about Australia being the "lucky country."
  97. @Sid
    Right. As a counterexample, you'd think that America's long history with pioneers, settlers, and immigrants would make America unique among Western countries. We all make fun of the Ellis Island mythology, with America being a "nation of immigrants," and that white Americans have no right to complain about immigrants coming over when their ancestors migrated from Europe.

    And yes, the globalists do use those arguments here. Then they go ahead and use different arguments for why Europeans must take in an unlimited number of Africans and Muslims. After all, Britain and France have a history of colonialism or something.

    Then you look at countries like Sweden, which has a rather slim history of migration, not much colonialism beyond the Baltic, was neutral during WWII, and wasn't involved in the War in Iraq. But they still are expected to take in the entire population of Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan and Nigeria.

    Different arguments. Different words. Same pattern. Same results.

    In respect to Sweden, the consummate feminist/Left-liberal soft totalitarian dystopia, the governing-classes and ruling-elites are addled and driven by guilt and ethno-masochism simply because they’re white, apparently, and thus the invasion of Muslim savages and primitives, brown and black, who commit over 95% of rapes and will soon destroy Sweden and it’s feminist/progressive values.

    Islam is the antithesis of feminism and left-liberalism. But Muslims are non-Europeans, and thus sacred and inviolate. For the left, race is paramount. Race trumps “gender” And thus feminists and liberals who’ve imposed the most coercive and intrusive sex-crime laws on earth -John Derbyshire joked about being charged with rape in Sweden for stepping on a woman’s toe- are silent about the epidemic of violent rapes of Swedish women and girls by Muslim savages and misogynists, simply because they’re non-white, and thus the rapists are indulged by the criminal justice system; e.g, a Somali who raped a 12-year-old girl was sentenced to 6-months of community service.

    All that leftists and Muslims have in common is hatred of whites and Western Civilization and, cnsequently, they are allies in seeking the destruction of whites and Western Civilization.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    It should be noted that community service for child rape is a normal sentence in northern European liberal utopias. There's no reduction of sentences for nonwhites, the sentencing is just meaningless for everyone. The sexual harassment sentences and such invented by feminists are meaningless except for the fact that most Swedes consider it an enormous stigma to be sentenced for a crime even if the punishment is trivial.

    We have phenomena like notorious serial killers who become serial killers not because they kill multiple people and then get caught after an attention grabbing detective hunt but because they're caught, sent to prison, released, kill again, get caught, sent to prison, released, kill again... the Finnish newspapers were writing big headlines about where one of the notorious cases is living now and what he looks like; the state is completely useless against everyone except the average person who fears stigmatization.
  98. @Ralph Highroller
    That luck is fast running out.

    The country has the largest per capita immigration intake in the Western world, with most new migrants coming from the populous Asian giants. Prominent Australian historian Geoffrey Blainey was pilloried three decades ago for warning that Australian elites had "moved from the extreme of wanting a white Australia to the extreme of saying that we will have an Asian Australia and that the quicker we move towards it the better." But Blainey was right and now the country's still mainly Anglo-Celtic political and media classes openly celebrate Australia's rapid demographic transformation.

    Massive immigration-fuelled population growth has inflated headline GDP figures, allowing Australian governments to brag about 25 years of uninterrupted expansion. In truth, the Australian economy is weak and increasingly vulnerable to external shocks. Growth in GDP per capita is weak. Public and private debt levels have ballooned. Housing is among the most unaffordable in the Western world. The manufacturing sector has been basically wiped out. The country's export profile increasingly resembles that of a Third World banana republic, selling minerals along with farmland, real estate and visas to the Chinese.

    Admittedly, my assessment may be overly pessimistic but I think there is a growing sense here in Australia that all is not well.

    Above comment was in response to BenjaminL’s statement about Australia being the “lucky country.”

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  99. @AM

    I would think that Protestants, if anything, have a greater and more complete sense of forgiveness, as under most Protestant denominations forgiveness is easier to obtain, and many of them reject concepts such as mortal sin (i.e. that committing a sin after salvation puts one under a state of eternal judgment unless that sin is forgiven separately) and purgatory.
     
    This theoretical is not held up by experiences nor even the implications of the theoretical, unfortunately.

    Purgatory is essentially a second chance at redemption. If your theology has a formal confession and a concept like purgatory, you're pretty big into forgiveness. You're offering chance after chance after chance to get right.

    Thus Catholic cultures tend to be laid back about superficial vices - drinking, sloth, vulgarity, etc. There's always tomorrow, as it were. :) It's also why cultures who gravitate towards Catholicism have never been economic powerhouses, for good and bad.

    Most Protestants are pretty clear: you d*mn well (literally) better get it right the first time. Without purgatory it's straight to Hell. Yes, they say that you can just for forgiveness (that's there too in the Catholic theology in a particular circumstance by the way) but the price of that is endless scrubbing of the exteriors. Jettisoning purgatory and confession means acting like a Saint 24/7. While that's maybe not a bad idea, forgiveness is what exactly it's not.

    There are some poor understandings of Protestant theology in this thread. Only a relatively few Arminian theologians teach that salvation is lost through acts of sin. Luther taught that salvation could be lost, but only by rejecting the faith. Calvin taught that salvation could not be lost but that those who had been brought to faith would persevere in such faith. The emphasis of the Reformation was that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and is not dependent upon works, either good or bad.

    Many Protestants do teach the need for a relational forgiveness, but that this is not related to eternal forgiveness , which is received at conversion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The problem with Protestant theology on the subject of grace is that it can't escape from being the same as Catholic theology with slightly different terminology except to fall into one of the traps of "Sin boldly" on the one hand, and Arminianism on the other.
  100. @German_reader
    Yes, but apparently Sieferle chose that "incorrect" title intentionally (don't know exactly why, something about unsettling and irritating the reader iirc).

    A German journalist writes:

    Ende Der Titel “Finis Germania” ‘könnte auf eine Genitiv-Schwäche hindeuten. Wenn Rolf Peter Sieferle das Ende Deutschlands meinte, hätte er gramatikalisch korrekt vom “Finis Germaniae” sprechen müssen. Mit diesen Worten kommentierte Reichskanzler Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg im Ersten Weltkrieg sarkastisch den Beginn des uneingeschränken U-Boot-Kriegs durch Deutschland, der seiner Meinung nach zum Kriegseintritt der USA und der Niederlage des Deutschen Reichs führen musste. Doch Sieferle war offenbar lateinfest. Der Historiker lehrte Neuere Geschichte an der Universität Mannheim und später in St. Gallen. Seine Formulierung, so wird im Netz orakelt, muss einen Hintersinn haben. “Finis Germania”: Deutschland Ende. Meinte Sieferle vielleicht quasi-vokativisch “Schluss jetzt, Germania”? Oder “Das Höchste (ist) Deutschland”?

    In other words, while clearly an homage to the phrase “Finis Germaniae” (The End of Germany), as written it can only be taken literally as two Latin words devoid of grammar. What does it say?

    “Finis! Germania!” — which suggests ‘Enough Already’ (Schluss Jetzt!)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Which implies at least some hope that Germany might still wake up.
    But then he goes and kills himself.
    So did Angst win out in the end?
  101. @Dieter Kief

    Those two (Safranski and Klonovsky, DK) don’t sound very German, thus, those two won’t sound very German.
     
    Uhh - you're not as wrong as some might think. Background of their dissident thoughts on Sieferle's widely denounced Holocaust-instrumentalization-critique is as follows:

    Safranski was once part of the radical left - and therefor knows from experience, how easy it is in Germany to blame someone as Nazi.

    And Klonovsky grew up in the German Democratic Republic - and was thrown out of the university and had to do construction work afterwards, while hearing day in day out, that the German Democraticc Republic was the better Germany, because it was really anti-Fascist, while Western Germany was only seemingly anti-Fascist, but in reality the Republlic of the Hitler-Elites, who were still in power there...

    Then there is something else: Klonovsky and Safranski are educated and cultured men. Which means in the end: Able to read and understand complex texts as Sieferle's. The thing is indeed a little bit complex, because Sieferle does not reflect on the Holocaust so much, but on the Holocaust as something, which's consequences for the German mentality are now a big obstancle for the German public to deal with the migration question in a reasonable way.

    That Christopher Caldwell does get that stuff quite right and managed to get it published in the NYT is a miracle of sorts - and made my day, yesterday!

    Sieferle does not reflect on the Holocaust so much, but on the Holocaust as something, which’s consequences for the German mentality are now a big obstancle for the German public

    He literally would have risked prison time had he done so.

    Read More
  102. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @FPD72
    There are some poor understandings of Protestant theology in this thread. Only a relatively few Arminian theologians teach that salvation is lost through acts of sin. Luther taught that salvation could be lost, but only by rejecting the faith. Calvin taught that salvation could not be lost but that those who had been brought to faith would persevere in such faith. The emphasis of the Reformation was that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and is not dependent upon works, either good or bad.

    Many Protestants do teach the need for a relational forgiveness, but that this is not related to eternal forgiveness , which is received at conversion.

    The problem with Protestant theology on the subject of grace is that it can’t escape from being the same as Catholic theology with slightly different terminology except to fall into one of the traps of “Sin boldly” on the one hand, and Arminianism on the other.

    Read More
  103. @reiner Tor
    Part of the reason Holocaustianity became the biggest religion in Germany was that the Germans expected the very worst (mostly Jewish) revenge after 1945. When that revenge didn't come, or at least was way milder than what the Germans expected, they started praising the Jews for their perceived magnanimity. (Nobody understood that the revenge wasn't yet over, or that it hadn't yet started then.)

    Nobody understood that the revenge wasn’t yet over, or that it hadn’t yet started then

    More importantly, nobody understood that the revenge would be collective, in that the losers would be all Western Christians.

    Read More
  104. @reiner Tor
    Hitler purportedly planned to rename Berlin "Germania". I read that he actually just fleetingly mentioned it twice, which might have been tongue in cheek, and it is far from certain that he actually planned to rename the city, but it's often mentioned.

    far from certain…but it’s often mentioned.

    These words could appear as a disclaimer, asterisked in, to many of the assertions about Hitler and the Nazis.

    It is not a coincidence, I think, the most common nation/state associated with flying saucer conspiracy theories, besides the USA (Roswell, Area 51), seems certainly to be Nazi Germany, a state that ceased to exist over 72 years ago now.

    Read More
  105. @SMK
    In respect to Sweden, the consummate feminist/Left-liberal soft totalitarian dystopia, the governing-classes and ruling-elites are addled and driven by guilt and ethno-masochism simply because they're white, apparently, and thus the invasion of Muslim savages and primitives, brown and black, who commit over 95% of rapes and will soon destroy Sweden and it's feminist/progressive values.

    Islam is the antithesis of feminism and left-liberalism. But Muslims are non-Europeans, and thus sacred and inviolate. For the left, race is paramount. Race trumps "gender" And thus feminists and liberals who've imposed the most coercive and intrusive sex-crime laws on earth -John Derbyshire joked about being charged with rape in Sweden for stepping on a woman's toe- are silent about the epidemic of violent rapes of Swedish women and girls by Muslim savages and misogynists, simply because they're non-white, and thus the rapists are indulged by the criminal justice system; e.g, a Somali who raped a 12-year-old girl was sentenced to 6-months of community service.

    All that leftists and Muslims have in common is hatred of whites and Western Civilization and, cnsequently, they are allies in seeking the destruction of whites and Western Civilization.

    It should be noted that community service for child rape is a normal sentence in northern European liberal utopias. There’s no reduction of sentences for nonwhites, the sentencing is just meaningless for everyone. The sexual harassment sentences and such invented by feminists are meaningless except for the fact that most Swedes consider it an enormous stigma to be sentenced for a crime even if the punishment is trivial.

    We have phenomena like notorious serial killers who become serial killers not because they kill multiple people and then get caught after an attention grabbing detective hunt but because they’re caught, sent to prison, released, kill again, get caught, sent to prison, released, kill again… the Finnish newspapers were writing big headlines about where one of the notorious cases is living now and what he looks like; the state is completely useless against everyone except the average person who fears stigmatization.

    Read More
  106. According to the Nuremberg Laws (governing nationality and in particular), anyone who had as much as 1 Jewish great-grandparent was legally a Jew. For such a person to be promoted (in the military) to the rank of General required and individual approval, signed personally by the Fuhrer.

    There are in existence such approvals–more than 1500 of them.

    German “scientists” of the era found the Japanese to be an “Aryan” people.

    Read More
  107. @Hail
    A German journalist writes:

    Ende Der Titel "Finis Germania" 'könnte auf eine Genitiv-Schwäche hindeuten. Wenn Rolf Peter Sieferle das Ende Deutschlands meinte, hätte er gramatikalisch korrekt vom "Finis Germaniae" sprechen müssen. Mit diesen Worten kommentierte Reichskanzler Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg im Ersten Weltkrieg sarkastisch den Beginn des uneingeschränken U-Boot-Kriegs durch Deutschland, der seiner Meinung nach zum Kriegseintritt der USA und der Niederlage des Deutschen Reichs führen musste. Doch Sieferle war offenbar lateinfest. Der Historiker lehrte Neuere Geschichte an der Universität Mannheim und später in St. Gallen. Seine Formulierung, so wird im Netz orakelt, muss einen Hintersinn haben. "Finis Germania": Deutschland Ende. Meinte Sieferle vielleicht quasi-vokativisch "Schluss jetzt, Germania"? Oder "Das Höchste (ist) Deutschland"?
     
    In other words, while clearly an homage to the phrase "Finis Germaniae" (The End of Germany), as written it can only be taken literally as two Latin words devoid of grammar. What does it say?

    "Finis! Germania!" -- which suggests 'Enough Already' (Schluss Jetzt!)

    Which implies at least some hope that Germany might still wake up.
    But then he goes and kills himself.
    So did Angst win out in the end?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    "So did Angst win out in the end?"

    Sieferle, a friendly and courageous man, was terminally ill by the time he killed himself.

    BTW - he was right about a lot of things - lots of which have lots to do with the economy and the USA and the West and Asia ect.

    But he was wrong about race and IQ. He held, that the example of a) the flourishing Barbados and b) Haiti in constant decline, with basically the same inhabitants (descendants of Westafrican slaves, all shippedd from Dahomey) was proof, that race does n o t matter. He refers here to Lawrence Harrison's book Jews,Confucians, ans Protestants. Cultural Capital and the End of Multiculturalism, Lanham, 2013

    Against the universalist character of western law, he cites - Jefferson (law is no end in itself, it has to serve the purpose of the good life) and Robert H. Jackson, chief prosecutor of the Nuremberg trials: Law is not meant as a "suicide pact".

    The framework of Sieferles thoughts is pretty much the same as Helmut Schmidt's, just in case anybody remembers this former German chancellor. The complete absurdity lies in the fact, that Schmidt was always looked upon as a man of honour, whereas Sieferle - - - is described in well respected papers and magazines as - a kind of Fascist, or proto-Fascist or krypto-Fascist or ...

    To make this point explicit: Schmidt was against mass-immigration of Muslims. And he strongly opposed the idea, such mass-immigration could help the fact, that the German society is becoming elder in average. See: Schmidt knew the Japanese way from years and years of close encounters with the Japanese governing elite - and Japanese everyday life, here and there, too.

    The difference in reactions to Schmidt (glorified Elder Statesman with (at times seemingly endless) public presence) and to Sieferle (krypto-Fascist) hints at a severe problem: The actual German elite has painted itself in a pretty uncomfortable corner.

    So yes: There is German angst at play here, and unfortunately for pretty good reasons.

    And Schmidt, Sieferle, Safranski, Sloterdijk and Klonovsky show ways out.

  108. @Old Palo Altan
    Which implies at least some hope that Germany might still wake up.
    But then he goes and kills himself.
    So did Angst win out in the end?

    “So did Angst win out in the end?”

    Sieferle, a friendly and courageous man, was terminally ill by the time he killed himself.

    BTW – he was right about a lot of things – lots of which have lots to do with the economy and the USA and the West and Asia ect.

    But he was wrong about race and IQ. He held, that the example of a) the flourishing Barbados and b) Haiti in constant decline, with basically the same inhabitants (descendants of Westafrican slaves, all shippedd from Dahomey) was proof, that race does n o t matter. He refers here to Lawrence Harrison’s book Jews,Confucians, ans Protestants. Cultural Capital and the End of Multiculturalism, Lanham, 2013

    Against the universalist character of western law, he cites – Jefferson (law is no end in itself, it has to serve the purpose of the good life) and Robert H. Jackson, chief prosecutor of the Nuremberg trials: Law is not meant as a “suicide pact”.

    The framework of Sieferles thoughts is pretty much the same as Helmut Schmidt’s, just in case anybody remembers this former German chancellor. The complete absurdity lies in the fact, that Schmidt was always looked upon as a man of honour, whereas Sieferle – – – is described in well respected papers and magazines as – a kind of Fascist, or proto-Fascist or krypto-Fascist or …

    To make this point explicit: Schmidt was against mass-immigration of Muslims. And he strongly opposed the idea, such mass-immigration could help the fact, that the German society is becoming elder in average. See: Schmidt knew the Japanese way from years and years of close encounters with the Japanese governing elite – and Japanese everyday life, here and there, too.

    The difference in reactions to Schmidt (glorified Elder Statesman with (at times seemingly endless) public presence) and to Sieferle (krypto-Fascist) hints at a severe problem: The actual German elite has painted itself in a pretty uncomfortable corner.

    So yes: There is German angst at play here, and unfortunately for pretty good reasons.

    And Schmidt, Sieferle, Safranski, Sloterdijk and Klonovsky show ways out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    Thank you - I had wondered if illness might have played a role.
    You mention Schmidt.
    I noted a few weeks back that his photo, in Wehrmacht uniform, has been restored to it place in a barracks (school?) named after him.
    Any more recent developments regarding that ridiculous woman von der Leyen?
  109. @Dieter Kief
    "So did Angst win out in the end?"

    Sieferle, a friendly and courageous man, was terminally ill by the time he killed himself.

    BTW - he was right about a lot of things - lots of which have lots to do with the economy and the USA and the West and Asia ect.

    But he was wrong about race and IQ. He held, that the example of a) the flourishing Barbados and b) Haiti in constant decline, with basically the same inhabitants (descendants of Westafrican slaves, all shippedd from Dahomey) was proof, that race does n o t matter. He refers here to Lawrence Harrison's book Jews,Confucians, ans Protestants. Cultural Capital and the End of Multiculturalism, Lanham, 2013

    Against the universalist character of western law, he cites - Jefferson (law is no end in itself, it has to serve the purpose of the good life) and Robert H. Jackson, chief prosecutor of the Nuremberg trials: Law is not meant as a "suicide pact".

    The framework of Sieferles thoughts is pretty much the same as Helmut Schmidt's, just in case anybody remembers this former German chancellor. The complete absurdity lies in the fact, that Schmidt was always looked upon as a man of honour, whereas Sieferle - - - is described in well respected papers and magazines as - a kind of Fascist, or proto-Fascist or krypto-Fascist or ...

    To make this point explicit: Schmidt was against mass-immigration of Muslims. And he strongly opposed the idea, such mass-immigration could help the fact, that the German society is becoming elder in average. See: Schmidt knew the Japanese way from years and years of close encounters with the Japanese governing elite - and Japanese everyday life, here and there, too.

    The difference in reactions to Schmidt (glorified Elder Statesman with (at times seemingly endless) public presence) and to Sieferle (krypto-Fascist) hints at a severe problem: The actual German elite has painted itself in a pretty uncomfortable corner.

    So yes: There is German angst at play here, and unfortunately for pretty good reasons.

    And Schmidt, Sieferle, Safranski, Sloterdijk and Klonovsky show ways out.

    Thank you – I had wondered if illness might have played a role.
    You mention Schmidt.
    I noted a few weeks back that his photo, in Wehrmacht uniform, has been restored to it place in a barracks (school?) named after him.
    Any more recent developments regarding that ridiculous woman von der Leyen?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    Von der Leyen jut soldiers on, kinda. I even met her once, when she was still Government secretary for Family and Kids - "she's nice and all" (Holden Caulfield). The idea, that you should heal the past, somehow (one of the very toxic ideas, that blossomed out of the misreadings and misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the Nazi past, Sieferle - and Schmidt (!) - used to critizise - ah what I wanted to point out: She too fell pray at times to this absurd idea, really, that you should heal (or improve or something) the past. Therefor she first gave in, in the case of the Schmidt-photo you mentioned.
    Thanks to the heavens above, after a while, she understood, that this was all wrong. Dumb she ain't. But you can feel it in the air: There is a panic right under the skin of the German elite, because they aim at a goal, that's definitely out of reach for them: They try to help Africa in such a way, that no migration out of Africa has to take place any longer.

    Like kids, they think you could walk along just friendly - no need of a stick (or a secured and protected border). Sticks (and protected borders) - you know: All hint in one direction: They hint at Braunau...at Hitler-territory.

    Whenever I speak in person to those, who claim such things, I ask them very simple questions, like, for example: Do you know, how big Mali, Niger and Tschad are?

    Have you read the latest corrections, the UN has made concerning the popluation growth in Africa?
    Do you know Steve Sailer's isteve-blog, and - Steve Sailer's "most important graph of the world"?

    Such things.

    Ah - I forgot to mention Thilo Sarrazin in my list above. Sarrazin is just great. His books are - almost - perfect. The corrected list thus reads like this:

    Sarrazin, Schmidt, Sieferle, Safranski, Sloterdijk, Tichy, Broder, Matussek, Klonovsky.

  110. @Old Palo Altan
    Thank you - I had wondered if illness might have played a role.
    You mention Schmidt.
    I noted a few weeks back that his photo, in Wehrmacht uniform, has been restored to it place in a barracks (school?) named after him.
    Any more recent developments regarding that ridiculous woman von der Leyen?

    Von der Leyen jut soldiers on, kinda. I even met her once, when she was still Government secretary for Family and Kids – “she’s nice and all” (Holden Caulfield). The idea, that you should heal the past, somehow (one of the very toxic ideas, that blossomed out of the misreadings and misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the Nazi past, Sieferle – and Schmidt (!) – used to critizise – ah what I wanted to point out: She too fell pray at times to this absurd idea, really, that you should heal (or improve or something) the past. Therefor she first gave in, in the case of the Schmidt-photo you mentioned.
    Thanks to the heavens above, after a while, she understood, that this was all wrong. Dumb she ain’t. But you can feel it in the air: There is a panic right under the skin of the German elite, because they aim at a goal, that’s definitely out of reach for them: They try to help Africa in such a way, that no migration out of Africa has to take place any longer.

    Like kids, they think you could walk along just friendly – no need of a stick (or a secured and protected border). Sticks (and protected borders) – you know: All hint in one direction: They hint at Braunau…at Hitler-territory.

    Whenever I speak in person to those, who claim such things, I ask them very simple questions, like, for example: Do you know, how big Mali, Niger and Tschad are?

    Have you read the latest corrections, the UN has made concerning the popluation growth in Africa?
    Do you know Steve Sailer’s isteve-blog, and – Steve Sailer’s “most important graph of the world”?

    Such things.

    Ah – I forgot to mention Thilo Sarrazin in my list above. Sarrazin is just great. His books are – almost – perfect. The corrected list thus reads like this:

    Sarrazin, Schmidt, Sieferle, Safranski, Sloterdijk, Tichy, Broder, Matussek, Klonovsky.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato

    Whenever I speak in person to those, who claim such things, I ask them very simple questions, like, for example: Do you know, how big Mali, Niger and Tschad are?
     
    There is a pervasive problem with this kind of disconnect.

    The current discussion of "winning the Afghan war" by "surging" a few thousand troops into a mountainous terrain as big as France where ferocious bomb-layers supported by Pakistan, India and Saudi Arabia (though not by Iran as is regularly claimed in Meedja meant for the Jar Jar Binks among us) are roaming freely is ridiculous.

    What are these troops going to do? Clean the bogs around Kandahar?
  111. Thank you. Enlightening as usual.
    What disappoints me about von der Leyen is that her background suggests something completely different from what she seems to be. She is of an excellent family, married into an even better one, and has the great merit of having born her husband seven children. If only all German women were doing the same. She is also very attractive, and in a traditional way.
    That people of such quality are capable of such idiocy brings me to the brink of despair: barren Leftists like Merkel are one thing (and quite enough to be getting on with), but a woman like Leyen ought to be, and once would have been, a stalwart of tradition and right order in the home and in the State, which, after all, is but the family writ large.

    Read More
  112. @jmo

    The harder leftist Germans try to not be like Hitler, the more like Hitler they become. That’s because we live in Paradox World.
     
    Or maybe the racist Churchill was on to something, since he believed Prussians had a "war gene," that could never be eliminated, and the only answer to the German expansionism problem once and for all was mass extermination of Germans.

    Many other brits in power agreed at the time. When Churchill was once asked why he had pulled back on the heavy bombing of German civilians for a period in favor of bombing military targets, Churchill responded, "Always remember, business before pleasure."

    One of Hitler's blunders was not understanding this, which was why he didn't respond militarily in kind during months of Churchill's initial civilian carpet bombing, and why he let the brits get away at Dunkirk. For most of the war, he believed the British would agree to a truce, to allow him to finish off the Russians. That notion was never listed in Churchill's daytimer. Hitler, for too long, asked the wrong questions, because of incorrect assumptions.

    "That idiot Churchill expects me to surrender???"

    No. He doesn't.

    https://youtu.be/Mx9z99YJ_7s?t=36s

    Churchill had it in for anything German and wanted to get rid of the continental menace but he was not undecent, He became pretty agitated when Stalin twirled his moustache and suggested Katyn Foresting.

    From “The Roosevelt Myth” by John Flynn:

    … Here was Roosevelt suggesting a secret deal between himself and Stalin against Churchill, just as he had suggested a secret deal between himself and Chiang against Churchill and as he was later to make another secret deal between himself and Stalin against Chiang.

    He was to have a golden opportunity to convince Stalin of this attitude before he quit Teheran. Roosevelt gave a dinner the first evening, Stalin the next and Churchill on the final evening at the British embassy. At Stalin’s dinner the guests gave themselves over to the victuals and the vodka in a big way. Elliott Roosevelt tells how
    Stalin thrust a barbed shaft into Churchill’s temper. In one of his numerous toasts he raised his glass and said: “To the swiftest possible justice for all Germany’s war criminals—justice before a firing squad. I drink to our unity in dispatching them as fast as we catch them, all of them, and there must be at least 50,000 of them.”

    Churchill flushed, leaped to his feet. He declared that any such mass murder was contrary to the British sense of justice. He was opposed to anybody, Nazis or anyone else, going before a firing squad without a proper legal trial. Certainly no American could take exception to that and no decent American could endorse the sentiments of Stalin. Churchill having taken up the challenge, Roosevelt might have been well advised to remain out of it or, if he intervened, to either support Churchill or, in any case, attempt to mollify both men. Instead he said in a jocular vein: “Clearly there must be some compromise . . . Perhaps we could say that instead of summarily executing 50,000 we should settle on a smaller number, say 49,500.” The Americans and Russians laughed. The British remained silent “in the presence of Churchill’s
    mounting fury.” Stalin was delighted. He took up the cue and pressed die matter. He called on everyone present for an opinion. He got around to Elliott who was flushed with liquor, as he admits, and who rose “unsteadily to his feet” Elliott said “Our armies will settle the matter for most of those 50,000 and perhaps a hundred thousand more.” Stalin, greatly pleased, walked around the table to Elliott, put his arm around his shoulder and drank to his health. Churchill, infuriated, rushed to Elliott, shaking his finger in his face and crying: “Are you interested in damaging relations between the allies? Do you know what you are saying? How can you dare to say such a thing?” Elliott says he had good reason to believe Churchill never forgot the incident but that his father was greatly amused by it. It was a happy opportunity for him to add, by an amusing incident, to the proofs he was giving that he and Stalin, like Hopkins and Stalin, were buddies.

    Read More
  113. @Dieter Kief
    Von der Leyen jut soldiers on, kinda. I even met her once, when she was still Government secretary for Family and Kids - "she's nice and all" (Holden Caulfield). The idea, that you should heal the past, somehow (one of the very toxic ideas, that blossomed out of the misreadings and misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the Nazi past, Sieferle - and Schmidt (!) - used to critizise - ah what I wanted to point out: She too fell pray at times to this absurd idea, really, that you should heal (or improve or something) the past. Therefor she first gave in, in the case of the Schmidt-photo you mentioned.
    Thanks to the heavens above, after a while, she understood, that this was all wrong. Dumb she ain't. But you can feel it in the air: There is a panic right under the skin of the German elite, because they aim at a goal, that's definitely out of reach for them: They try to help Africa in such a way, that no migration out of Africa has to take place any longer.

    Like kids, they think you could walk along just friendly - no need of a stick (or a secured and protected border). Sticks (and protected borders) - you know: All hint in one direction: They hint at Braunau...at Hitler-territory.

    Whenever I speak in person to those, who claim such things, I ask them very simple questions, like, for example: Do you know, how big Mali, Niger and Tschad are?

    Have you read the latest corrections, the UN has made concerning the popluation growth in Africa?
    Do you know Steve Sailer's isteve-blog, and - Steve Sailer's "most important graph of the world"?

    Such things.

    Ah - I forgot to mention Thilo Sarrazin in my list above. Sarrazin is just great. His books are - almost - perfect. The corrected list thus reads like this:

    Sarrazin, Schmidt, Sieferle, Safranski, Sloterdijk, Tichy, Broder, Matussek, Klonovsky.

    Whenever I speak in person to those, who claim such things, I ask them very simple questions, like, for example: Do you know, how big Mali, Niger and Tschad are?

    There is a pervasive problem with this kind of disconnect.

    The current discussion of “winning the Afghan war” by “surging” a few thousand troops into a mountainous terrain as big as France where ferocious bomb-layers supported by Pakistan, India and Saudi Arabia (though not by Iran as is regularly claimed in Meedja meant for the Jar Jar Binks among us) are roaming freely is ridiculous.

    What are these troops going to do? Clean the bogs around Kandahar?

    Read More
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