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Brookings: "Race Gaps in SAT Math Scores Are as Big as Ever"
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From the Democratic Party-oriented Brookings Institution:

Race gaps in SAT scores highlight inequality and hinder upward mobility
Richard V. Reeves and Dimitrios HalikiasWednesday, February 1, 2017

… Race gaps on the SATs are especially pronounced at the tails of the distribution.among top scorers—those scoring between a 750 and 800—60 percent are Asian and 33 percent are white, compared to 5 percent Latino and 2 percent black. Meanwhile, among those scoring between 300 and 350, 37 percent are Latino, 35 percent are black, 21 percent are white, and 6 percent are Asian. …

I’ve been following test scores for 45 years now the way other guys follow baseball statistics. But it’s kind of boring because nothing much changes, other than the ever-growing Asian dominance at the high end.

Disappointingly, the black-white achievement gap in SAT math scores has remained virtually unchanged over the last fifteen years.

The gap was narrowing in recent years, but then it got wider the last two years.

Between 1996 and 2015, the average gap between the mean black score and the mean white score has been .92 standard deviations. In 1996 it was .9 standard deviations and in 2015 it was .88 standard deviations. …

Some of this is driven by programs to get more kids to take the SAT in the hopes of finding a few overlooked high scorers, but of course giving out free tests to poor kids mostly just expands the number of lower to middling scorers.

But, overall, the stability of the race gaps is pretty remarkable. They appear to be more persistent than, say, height gaps. The entire topic deserves a broader investigation than it has gotten.

There are some limitations to the data which may mean that, if anything, the race gap is being understated. The ceiling on the SAT score may, for example, understate Asian achievement. … A standardized test with a wider range of scores, the LSAT, offers some evidence on this front. An analysis of the 2013-2014 LSAT finds an average black score of 142 compared to an average white score of 153. This amounts to a black-white achievement gap of 1.06 standard deviations, even higher than that on the SAT.

The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it. The gaps are similar on both, however.

The black-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .88 standard deviations. For the 2016 ACT it was .87 standard deviations. Likewise, the Latino-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .65 standard deviations; for the 2016 ACT it was .54 standard deviations. …

You often hear that racial gaps are really class gaps. To some extent that’s true, but people shouldn’tbe so smug about asserting that:

However, a 2015 research paper from the Center for Studies in Higher Education at the University of California, Berkeley shows that between 1994 and 2011, race has grown more important than class in predicting SAT scores for UC applicants. While it is difficult to extrapolate from such findings to the broader population of SAT test-takers, it is unlikely that the racial achievement gap can be explained away by class differences across race.

Also from Brookings:

Race gaps in SAT math scores are as big as ever
Richard V. Reeves Wednesday, February 1, 2017

 
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  1. guest says:

    The Gap ™ is endless job security for educationists and public “servants” of all kinds. In this sense, blank slate-ism and anti-HBD are successful because they fail.

    Read More
    • Agree: European-American
    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    It's a good thing that only Racists think the Gap is due to hereditary differences, 'cuz otherwise all that money would be wasted....
    , @Olorin
    The moment I realized that in the early 1990s was the moment I left the Ed Biz.

    Well, I actually still worked for and with university research centers, but they were involved with analyzing data and to a much lesser degree pioneering new technical/trades training programs for emerging blue-white collar jobs/enterprises.
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  2. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    What?!

    They have tirelessly honed it to be intelligence-unrelated and we still get this?

    I guess these test-makers will have to think harder to remove the obvious, inherent bias that still lies in the test.

    BTW and seriously, maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide.

    The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it. The gaps are similar on both, however.

    So the ACT designers are bias-loving racists as well: good to hear that!

    the Latino-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .65 standard deviations; for the 2016 ACT it was .54 standard deviations

    Now that Trump is bullying Mexico we needed all but anti-Latino, Mexico-bullying tests like this SAT and ACT.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JimB
    I have to agree that training is largely responsible for the white/Asian test gap. There are a denumerable number of math problems in basic geometry and algebra and a dedicated student working 45 minutes a night from seventh grade will pretty much see them all by 11th grade. In other words, given a no coaching score of 650 on the SAT, you can probably work your way to an 800.

    Frequency of Fields Medal winners is a better measure of relative math talent and given the Asian population advantage, it's interesting that whites continue to dominate. What's also interesting is how rare Indian Field Medalists are.

    I maintain the best true measure of academic talent is a challenging reading test. I think it better captures untrained learning ability.

    , @Formerly CARealist
    Two questions to you:

    1. So since they removed the regatta questions it hasn't helped the poor or black students who never go yachting? I'm genuinely surprised.

    2. Will you explain this? "maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide." The Asian students who get those high scores go on to get good grades in college by studying their asses off. I know there's cheating, but still, it can't be all just test-taking skills that make them so successful.
    , @Mr Mack Bolan
    Maybe they should give handicaps like they do in bowling. They could also give point for effort. You know they got all that inner city crap to overcome. Kinda like when grandpa used say "I had to walk three miles to school every day."
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  3. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Why didn’t you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.

    This country is “overer” than over.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TangoMan
    This country is “overer” than over.

    It's morally wrong for colleges to discriminate on the basis of intelligence, "distributive justice" demands more equal outcomes.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    Standardized tests were originally developed, IIRC, to reduce bias in admissions from attending elite high schools and prep schools: a student from Grand Island, Nebraska, had a chance to get into Princeton based on a high SAT score even if he attended the Grand Island Community School District. The disparate racial results are simply a demonstration of what people have known for centuries: some groups of people are collectively smarter than others.
    , @Arclight
    Distributive justice demands that under-qualified minorities be allowed to take out massive loans that stick with them long after they drop out or graduate with worthless degrees. To the extent that society is economically exploiting minorities, it's predominantly a product of progressive policies like this that fund plenty of SJW faculty and administrative positions.
    , @Negrolphin Pool

    After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    It doesn't matter if the load was distributed within the plane's operating envelope, so long as justice was properly distributed.

    Social justice, meet engineering.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lksDISvCmNI

    , @Desiderius

    This country is “overer” than over.
     
    Colleges are not this country.

    England survived without it's monasteries, we can survive without colleges.
    , @Jack D
    "Distributive justice" - If you have 4 rims and I have no rims, then when I take 2 of your rims, that's not theft, it's just distributive justice.
    , @ben tillman

    This country is “overer” than over.
     
    Where have you been for the last 50 years? What you fear has long since come to pass.

    The government requires universities to impose racial quotas to promote "distributive justice" as a condition to participation in Title IV subsidies. Only a few like Grove City refuse the government's terms.

    , @Forbes

    It seems likely, however... suggests that... may have... may not be...
     
    Perhaps they should use more hedge phrases in their conclusions.
    , @guest
    There already is "[re]distributive justice" in college admissions, duh. Who on earth thinks academic preparation is the only criterion?

    By the way, this has always been the case. Now it's about supposed equality, before it was about maintaining universities as gentlemen's clubs for Our Crowd, and keeping out the riffraff. And it shall ever be thus.

    , @AnotherGuessModel
    If they submit to "distributive justice", American universities as centers of higher education are obsolete. Some other institution will organically take their place, just as universities once replaced the church. The major conflict in this transference will be in who (whom? - never get that right) the job market will favor. For one thing, expect even more vehement resistance to cognitive testing, even as the science over it becomes more persuasive.
    , @RonaldB
    Let's take it from the point of view of the individual.

    It's a pretty-well-known effect that the competition for minorities causes colleges to ratchet down their admission standards for blacks. Blacks who are suitable for a branch state college are recruited to the flagship university, blacks suitable for the flagship are invited to Cal Tech and the University of Massachusetts, and those adapted to U of M are grabbed by Yale and Harvard.

    I know what it's like to be at the bottom of the class. Besides the sinking feeling, you see the material pass so quickly you don't have a clue what it is. And the tragedy is that at a slower pace, it's readily comprehensible.

    The black students who are victims of this ratcheting effect either drop out, take a useless degree like Black Studies, or are passed through at the behest of embattled administrators. The result is, you have fewer qualified black engineers, accountants, managers, nurses and other productive professionals than you would have in an environment not sullied by racial promotions. Those black professionals who make it through are thoroughly dependent on affirmative action, and know it.

    My suspicion is that with automation, the future is going to belong to people who have a definite skill related to service, plumbing, carpentry, office manager, medical technician, who do it well, and who are personable and reliable. The racial divides will be far less, if the SJWs don't get involved.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson

    This country is “overer” than over.
     
    No, it is not. It is never over. And I do not see how your despair helps. But you must admit that your indulgence of self-pity is a disgusting defect in your character.
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  4. Joel W says:

    Its obviously because math is racist

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Its obviously because math is racist"

    But according to We Wuz Kangz Blacks invented math. So shouldn't 90 percent of all NASA employees be Black, just like the percentage of American inventors who are Black according to Google.
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  5. We need earlier intervention…don’t stop with universal pre-K..we need pre-pre-pre k to close the gap.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "We need earlier intervention…don’t stop with universal pre-K..we need pre-pre-pre k to close the gap."

    Perhaps closing the gap requires that we, as a society, commit ourselves to the national goal of building a time machine, so as to go back in the past and prevent the gap from every arising in the first place.
    , @FKA Max

    Negative 8 Months and 29 Days


    http://www.unz.com/isteve/negative-8-months-and-29-days/

    Families are the ultimate pre-pre-school. Research in neuroscience and other fields has established that parents and caregivers provide a crucial foundation during the first few years of life. Our public policies, however, make it much harder for families, especially families living in poverty, to lay this foundation.

    In my research, I have cataloged government policies that undermine parent-child relationships during early childhood. …

    I don’t want to rain on the pre-K parade, but we can’t pretend that school preparation begins at age 4. Four is better than 5, but zero is far better than 4.
     
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  6. TangoMan says:
    @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    This country is “overer” than over.

    It’s morally wrong for colleges to discriminate on the basis of intelligence, “distributive justice” demands more equal outcomes.

    Read More
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  7. dearieme says:

    When the UK was due to hand over Hong Kong to the commies, I had a notion that the UK should offer citizenship to any HKer who would fund the transfer out of the UK of families of immigrants of less desirable sorts. Unsurprisingly I didn’t waste my breath explaining the merits of this scheme.

    But I offer the idea free to the US. Get those rich Chinese (and others) to fund the solution of your racial/ethnic/immigrant/etc problems in return for citizenship. As a start, you ought to make the “anchor baby” route to residence and citizenship unavailable so that citizenship becomes a usefully expensive commodity. I also commend the idea to the Ozzies; a few rich Chinese would fund the repatriation of lots of troublemakers to some patches of their continents of origin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @artichoke
    It's almost impossible to get the less desirable immigrants to leave a welfare state once they're in. All you can do is try to keep them out in the first place. (Trump is doing this at the moment and the left is screaming of course.)

    In the run-up to 1997 in Hong Kong, the UK did offer regular UK citizenship to all the desirable HK citizens they could find, something like 1/3 of all the HK citizens. All the civil servants at a decent level, any successful professional, etc. It was unashamedly merit based, and those who weren't offered the citizenship were very bitter.

    The handover itself to China was an amazingly bitter moment. 20 years later they are still mad, probably in part because most of the people there (or their parents)were explicitly rejected by the UK before the handover.
    , @bomag

    Get those rich _____ to fund the solution of your racial/ethnic/immigrant/etc problems in return for citizenship... fund the repatriation of lots of troublemakers to some patches of their continents of origin.
     
    I'm not sure we really want wealthy foreigners, if we are trying to keep together some kind of coherent nation state.

    I doubt your plan would remove more than one percent of the invading Orcs, who would promptly be back no matter the strictures.

    We have to ultimately defend our borders in the first place, which is ever more difficult when the Orc womb is overpopulating their domains at an exponential rate. How much demographic osmotic pressure can a border ever hold back?
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  8. Old fogey says:

    Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?

    Read More
    • Agree: European-American
    • Replies: @HA
    >"Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?"

    My guess is because "whites" include a fair number of miscounted Latinos and other "miscellaneous" categories, and citizens from parts of the country where meth increasingly serves as both recreation and employment. The latter group is already a matter concern in that they're likely the same very whites whose dads and grand-dads are offing themselves so as to reduce overall life expectancy rates.

    Oddly enough, it seems that swapping out Christianity for the holy trinity of sex/drugs/rock-n-roll hasn't worked out as well as the 60's and 70's assured us that it would. Who would've guessed?

    Moreover, once one factors out that problematic group, I'm guessing the gap in question will shrink substantially , and to the extent that readers are confident that their children are not in the group bringing the curve down, it's less of a cause for worry.

    (You see, Jack D? I'm allowed to dis the meth-heads among the whites because rather than sneering at them, I actually recognize that they, too, are victims, as much as anyone else in that group whose troubles are supposed to be our concern.)

    , @namae nanka
    Indeed, it's alarming and I thought it's so when it's asians 1:1 with whites in that range.

    It's too bad that environmentalists don't get hoisted on their petard since there's ample ammo for the other side, for e.g. rich black kids scoring worse than poor white kids on SAT or this isteve article,

    For example, above is the 2013 federal National Assessment of Educational Progress scores for 12th graders in Reading. Blacks who are the children of college graduates average 274, which is the same as whites who are the children of high school dropouts.
     
    www.unz.com/isteve/applying-occams-razor-vs-asserting-occams-racist/
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  9. unit472 says:

    Now that genetic ancestry tracing is all the rage has any academic dared look under that rock and compared the genetic profile of those ‘African-Americans’ who score well on the SAT against those who do not?

    Three generations ago there may have been a ‘legacy’ issue of ‘light skinned’ African Americans having a higher socio-economic status those with dark skin so the ‘class’ argument for the disparity in test scores could have been operative but today?

    Read More
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  10. Disappointingly, the black-white achievement gap in SAT math scores has remained virtually unchanged over the last fifteen years.

    If I had a lazy son who neglected his chores I would be disappointed, but only a fool would be disappointed in his cat for not taking out the trash and washing the dishes.

    Disappointment has two causes: underperformance and overexpectation.

    I suggest the hand-wringers at least, for once, consider entertaining the possibility of the latter.

    Read More
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  11. The Z Blog says: • Website

    When viewed as a religion, the stubborn persistence of the blank slate ideology we call Progressivism makes a lot of sense. It has within it a mechanism for dealing with disconfirmation like this. After all, if we keep getting racially disparate results, then that means racism is still a problem. The righteous have to work harder to identify the racisms and root them out of the system. Failure, in other words, is the fuel that powers the quest.

    Of course, there’s big money in stalking the Big Foot of institutional racism through the forest of Western society. If you are inclined to the topic of education or educational testing, all of the incentives are in favor of chasing Big Foot and none of them favor candor. Brooking can release data showing that Big Foot is a myth, but you can be sure they have ten reports ready to “prove” that we have to try harder to find Big Foot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson

    When viewed as a religion, the stubborn persistence of the blank slate ideology we call Progressivism makes a lot of sense.
     
    Yes. The Last Real Calvinist has persistently made this point. Unfortunately it means not only that the innocent must be punished, but that there is no upper bound on the punishment. Hence, the true believers work hard to realize dystopia in service of utopia. The 1984 playbook is the creed. You must not only see the dry bones connected, but also see the dry bones must be made flesh, you know. And if you don't see it they will put your eyes out.
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  12. Steve, the last link is incorrect, it should be

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/02/01/race-gaps-in-sat-math-scores-are-as-big-as-ever/

    Though it doesn’t seem to add much compared to the main article. Both have this doozy of a finding:

    In a perfectly equal distribution, the racial breakdown of scores … would mirror the composition of test-takers as whole i.e. 51 percent white, 21 percent Latino, 14 percent black, and 14 percent Asian.

    we estimate that at most only 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos scored above a 750, compared to some 16,000 whites and 29,600 Asians.

    So at the top, there should be 51% whites and 14% Asians, instead there are 33% whites and 60% Asians. My math is not that good (I’m white), but it looks like Asians are doing four times better than they should.

    How is that not the most commented about fact? It’s certainly the one I and any Asians will find the most interesting. It’s easy to make jokes about “yellow privilege” or whatever, and I congratulate my Asian friends on their talent, but seriously,

    1) How does this not definitively invalidate all the arguments that society is causing racial inequality, and that we need to work harder to fix it? Or has a super-secret cabal of Asians managed to rig testing under our very noses, or are they all cheating?

    2) What are the consequences for American society if we keep importing a cognitively superior race? Is this desirable? Unavoidable if we want to compete?

    I am just stunned that this is not a bigger topic of discussion. Is it racist to say others may be superior? I guess so. Race doesn’t exist, bla bla bla. Except wtf is that graph about then???

    Read More
    • Replies: @gregor
    I have seen several accounts indicating that Asians tend to underperform their test scores. They do score high on the SAT-M, but they don't seem to be represented among elite mathematicians to the extent you'd think based on those scores. They do not score any higher on the LSAT and they pass the California Bar at a slightly lower rate than whites. They are also underrepresented in the upper levels of the business world.
    , @peter johnson
    Your maths looks fine, except "four times" (or any "times") does not apply when comparing two distributions. Each of the two distributions of scores, in this case White test-takers and Asian test-takers, have various features such as mean, standard deviation, percentage above a fixed value, etc. but there is no obvious metric where one distribution is "four times" the other. Sorry if that is very pedantic.
    , @lavoisier
    I would agree that this information is discouraging for white folk, but I think the information has to be viewed in context. The Asian-American population in the United States is a cognitive elite and often represents the bright end of the Bell curve. This is true because they are immigrants to the West, and study after study has documented the cognitive superiority of the immigrant over the non-immigrant on average coming from these regions of the world.

    However, I think the disparity also has a lot to do with the fact that our society is dumbed down and academic excellence is no longer as popular as it once was. At the risk of generalizing too much, we are not as hungry for knowledge as we once were.

    Evidence can be presented simply by looking at high school textbooks on subjects in math and science from the 1950s and these same subjects today. There is a definite "dumbing down" occurring in our educational system and a lot of it is probably derivative of the Cultural Marxism and egalitarianism that has infected our society. I picked up a high school physics book the other day from 1958 and was shocked at how rigorous it was. In fact, it was well beyond the content of my first semester class in mechanics taken at one of the top Universities in the United States in the 1990s.

    But I would not take anything away from these Asian-Americans. They are smart cookies and they are kicking our asses academically. And by the way, the incidence of National Merit Finalists suggests that they are kicking Jewish American assess too.

    Time to get rid of the SAT!!
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  13. tyrone says:

    BUT I just googled American inventors it’s a full image page of black faces, at one time black IQ must have been astronomical .What kind of trickology is the white devils using to keeps the black man down:)

    Read More
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  14. @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    Standardized tests were originally developed, IIRC, to reduce bias in admissions from attending elite high schools and prep schools: a student from Grand Island, Nebraska, had a chance to get into Princeton based on a high SAT score even if he attended the Grand Island Community School District. The disparate racial results are simply a demonstration of what people have known for centuries: some groups of people are collectively smarter than others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    We knew it for centuries. We no longer know it.
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  15. George says:

    “nothing much changes, other than the ever-growing Asian dominance at the high end.”

    If IQ is stable over time for ‘race’ groups, why is it changing? Why can’t it change for blacks and whites.

    “racial gaps are really class gaps”

    What is the comparison between homeschool, public school, private school, US nationals living abroad?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Asian population growth of 46% from 2000 to 2010 makes a big difference if everything else stays constant: http://www.asiamattersforamerica.org/asia/data/population/states
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  16. Arclight says:

    Obviously this kind of information must be ignored, otherwise it would call into question the raison d’etre of millions of people whose jobs explicitly depend on the idea that the only reason these gaps exist is nebulous concepts like white supremacy, intersectionality, post colonialism, magic dirt, etc.

    “Alternative facts” were first an invention of the left to explain away unpleasant realities.

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  17. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Between 1996 and 2015 … and in 2015 it was .88 standard deviations. …”

    Pretty lazy analysis. The standard formula is (M1 -M2)/(pooled SD1, SD2), which for 2015 gives a critical reading d = .955 and a math d = 1.04. On the other hand, the new Collegiate Learning Assessment shows Blacks catch up a lot over the college years. For 2015, the freshman gap was .97 and the senior gap was only .99. Of course, Blacks still face tremendous discrimination, as proven by the fact that employers are less likely to hire an African American than a Whites person even when knowing that the two are identically educationally qualified. So what would you expect?

    Read More
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  18. Arclight says:
    @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    Distributive justice demands that under-qualified minorities be allowed to take out massive loans that stick with them long after they drop out or graduate with worthless degrees. To the extent that society is economically exploiting minorities, it’s predominantly a product of progressive policies like this that fund plenty of SJW faculty and administrative positions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Arc, Andrew Cuomo, NYS governor, has started to ramp up a run for the 2020 presidential bid. His face is on TV daily in PSAs that praise all things NY. His latest program is to offer FREE tuition to all NYS students at SUNY colleges and universities. This way the poor and underserved minorities won't be saddled with any college loan debts. There are however, some problems with his proposal, such as what happens to Community College enrollment when students don't need to attend for two years to save money, what happens to private colleges, especially Catholic ones, when tuition is free at the SUNY schools and lastly, who pays for this? Oh, wait, I see some distribution of taxpayer money in NY's future. I also predict that SAT and ACT scores will tank and almost anyone will be admitted to the SUNY system.
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  19. @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.

    It doesn’t matter if the load was distributed within the plane’s operating envelope, so long as justice was properly distributed.

    Social justice, meet engineering.

    Read More
    • Replies: @donut
    Sailer wouldn't pass my first response to this post but maybe he will pass this : if your family was aboard then it would be funny .
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  20. @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    This country is “overer” than over.

    Colleges are not this country.

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.
     
    It's "its monasteries"

    These were pretty good stores of accumulated knowledge though.

    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It's just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It's where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state's predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    "England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges."

    The monasteries were more useful than most non-STEM courses. But post-abolition there was armed opposition (Pilgrimage of Grace, Rising Of The North) which was crushed mercilessly (is Trump a Henry VIII? Three wives short at present).

    The Brookings report that gets me is this - that real male median wages in 2014 were (and probably still are now) lower than they were in 1973.

    https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-typical-male-u-s-worker-earned-less-in-2014-than-in-1973/
    , @syonredux

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.
     
    I would be quite loath to get rid of places like CALTECH and MIT.....
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  21. Yak-15 says:

    I believe La Griffe has the best curve fit built upon test score gaps. As I recall, he aggregated all major standardized tests (ACT, SAT, LSAT, MCAT, etc) and came up with an intelligence prediction line. Remarkably, IQ score differences nearly perfectly fit the data produced by the standardized test gaps. It’s almost as if all these tests are highlighting a basic human condition. Their stability over time is even more remarkable.

    Also, anyone have more race and income breakdowns besides the JBHE data?

    Read More
    • Replies: @a Newsreader
    I wonder if La Griffe has an appointment in the Trump Administration. He deserves it.
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  22. JimB says:
    @Anon
    What?!

    They have tirelessly honed it to be intelligence-unrelated and we still get this?

    I guess these test-makers will have to think harder to remove the obvious, inherent bias that still lies in the test.

    BTW and seriously, maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide.


    The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it. The gaps are similar on both, however.
     
    So the ACT designers are bias-loving racists as well: good to hear that!

    the Latino-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .65 standard deviations; for the 2016 ACT it was .54 standard deviations
     
    Now that Trump is bullying Mexico we needed all but anti-Latino, Mexico-bullying tests like this SAT and ACT.

    I have to agree that training is largely responsible for the white/Asian test gap. There are a denumerable number of math problems in basic geometry and algebra and a dedicated student working 45 minutes a night from seventh grade will pretty much see them all by 11th grade. In other words, given a no coaching score of 650 on the SAT, you can probably work your way to an 800.

    Frequency of Fields Medal winners is a better measure of relative math talent and given the Asian population advantage, it’s interesting that whites continue to dominate. What’s also interesting is how rare Indian Field Medalists are.

    I maintain the best true measure of academic talent is a challenging reading test. I think it better captures untrained learning ability.

    Read More
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan

    What’s also interesting is how rare Indian Field Medalists are.
     
    I'm reliably told by a former colleague that almost no one studies pure mathematics in India as an undergraduate major anymore. Almost everyone chooses to study coding or engineering, instead.

    He also noted that there is no math talent-spotting at the high school level, and college education is mostly dysfunctional and of very poor quality, other than at about a half-dozen small colleges which are the equivalents of small US liberal-arts colleges.

    My friend headed an effort to develop an in-house quant capability in India for his bulge bracket US investment bank about a decade ago. He said that contrary to his firm's assumptions, he was simply unable to recruit sufficient numbers of maths/physics grads in India for a proposed in-house mid-office quant support facility to be based in Mumbai.

    He also said that he thinks there is scope for improvement. Apparently, a recent concerted effort to popularize tournament chess in India among young women has yielded results, with a number of Indian women achieving International Master or Grandmaster ranking—this in a country previously unknown for female chess talent.

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  23. Jack D says:
    @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    “Distributive justice” – If you have 4 rims and I have no rims, then when I take 2 of your rims, that’s not theft, it’s just distributive justice.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CCZ
    And this, distilled, is the report's enlightening and original explanation of cause, effect, and remedy. I will take those 2 rims now for "equalizing...fairer outcomes."

    "The evidence for a stubborn race gap on this test does meanwhile provide a snapshot into the extraordinary magnitude of racial inequality in contemporary American society."

    "Race gaps on the SAT hold up a mirror to racial inequities in society as a whole. Equalizing educational opportunities and human capital acquisition earlier is the only way to ensure fairer outcomes."
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  24. Jack D says:

    Something is missing from the graph. They aren’t showing the bars from 200 to 300. I wonder why? Since the graphs are sort of mirror images of each other on the left and right, could it be that blacks and Hispanics make up 90+% of those scoring between 200 and 250?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn't go unless you were deliberately giving false answers? That even answering randomly, you're bound to get a certain percentage correct? I don't know what that floor would be.
    , @res
    Nice catch. Here is a slightly different look at the data from the source referenced in the plots:
    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf
    I did not check rigorously (you would need to multiply the percentages by populations and then divide by total population, more math than I felt like doing), but it looks like your speculation is in the ballpark.

    At the low end Whites do best (i.e. least represented per capita, 1% 250-300, 1-% 200-250) with Asians a bit behind. Blacks are worst with 7-8% 250-300 and 3% 200-250. One interesting feature of the data is they break Hispanics into three groups: Mexican or Mexican American; Puerto Rican; Latin American, Central American, South American, or Other Latino. One thing that does is supply SAT taking student population numbers for those subgroups

    It would be interesting to reanalyze the data. I tried converting the PDF tables to text like:
    https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/tips/pdf2excel
    but it did not work in my Word 2007. Someone with a more recent version may want to try.
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  25. Jack D says:

    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations – blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the “nerdy” side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    Read More
    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    "whites resent Ashkenazi Jews"...clever how you slid that in there...
    , @MarkinLA
    If I resent Ashkenazi Jews it has noting to do with them being smarter or more successful. It has to do with them being leftist trash who want to turn this country into a shit-hole as well as get us involved in Israel's wars.

    Maybe that's why you don't see a backlash against Asians.

    , @anon
    your general point may be correct but

    usury is parasitic and if unconstrained will destroy economies on a cyclical basis so people who can't wean themselves off usury will be highly unpopular on a cyclical basis
    , @SPMoore8
    I was thinking about that last night because I was a bit perturbed with the racial distribution change at Berkeley, which was not the case when I was there, but I haven't lived in the Bay Area for decades, so what did I know. Meanwhile, my family which still lives there sent none of their kids to Berkeley, although they went elsewhere in the state university system, and I think the imbalance may well explain that. I mean, people don't always talk about why they do things.

    Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that's probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new "Mandarin Class."

    I think the thing with Asians as of right now is that while their over-representation in elite colleges is a fact of life (and, I should emphasize, well-earned and possibly also even lower than it should be, just going by grades and scores) their representation in our various economic, political and cultural elites is still at about the level (or even below) their percentage of the population. However, that is likely to change in coming decades.
    , @Anonymous
    A key difference is that Asians have - or had - an enormous rate of out-marrying with whites.
    Resentment seems to follow a 'clannishness' reaction in which ethnies that are deemed to deliberately set themselves apart are the targets.
    , @HA
    >"Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations ...whites resent Ashkenazi Jews..."

    So says the guy who complains about envious "local drunken peasantry".

    In other words, the resentment seems to go both ways, and if it's the case that a significant number of other Ashkenazi regard the local "market submissive majorities" in the same way you do, I'm going to guess that significant portion of the resentment that whites feel towards them has nothing whatsoever to do with IQ.

    , @The most deplorable one

    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations – blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc.
     
    Sounds like separatism is needed. subSaharan Africa for Black Africans, their own country for Ashkenazi Jews ... oh wait. There is one. Israel.
    , @Bill

    The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick.
     
    It seems important to know whether or not this feeling, like, corresponds well to reality. I find it pretty hard to believe that blacks don't get ripped off an awful lot, given how dumb they are. Somebody goes into title pawn and payday lending stores.
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  26. @Arclight
    Distributive justice demands that under-qualified minorities be allowed to take out massive loans that stick with them long after they drop out or graduate with worthless degrees. To the extent that society is economically exploiting minorities, it's predominantly a product of progressive policies like this that fund plenty of SJW faculty and administrative positions.

    Arc, Andrew Cuomo, NYS governor, has started to ramp up a run for the 2020 presidential bid. His face is on TV daily in PSAs that praise all things NY. His latest program is to offer FREE tuition to all NYS students at SUNY colleges and universities. This way the poor and underserved minorities won’t be saddled with any college loan debts. There are however, some problems with his proposal, such as what happens to Community College enrollment when students don’t need to attend for two years to save money, what happens to private colleges, especially Catholic ones, when tuition is free at the SUNY schools and lastly, who pays for this? Oh, wait, I see some distribution of taxpayer money in NY’s future. I also predict that SAT and ACT scores will tank and almost anyone will be admitted to the SUNY system.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Cuomo's plan is middle class welfare. Students from low income (IDK the threshold) families already get a tuition subsidy--Cuomo is raising the threshold. Low income families still struggle to find money for living expenses--something middle class families find less burdensome.
    , @Daniel H
    Cuomo can propose all he wants, but this ridiculous scheme is going nowhere.
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  27. Jack D says:

    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

    Something strange is going on with the Asian distribution. Even if the means are shifted, scores usually obey the normal distribution or bell curve, except that the last bar is higher due to the ceiling (or floor) effect – the 750 to 800 bar is extra high because it also includes the students who would have scored between 800 and 900 (if these scores existed). Normally the highest bar is found at the center of the distribution and then they decline as you go outward. You can see this clearly with the bars for whites. BUT, for Asians, the bars for 650-700 are even higher than the bar that contains their mean (600-650).

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions . The 598 group mean is really a blended mean between one group centered around 500 (Filipinos and Pacific Islander?) and a second (smaller) group that is centered around 650 (continental East Asians?).

    Since in the SAT 100 points is 1 SD which is also 10 IQ points, this indicates a mean (nonverbal) IQ for E. Asians in the US of around 115, comparable to Ashkenazi Jews. And there are a lot more Asians than Jews. So expect to see a lot more Asian faces among our future elites.

    Read More
    • Agree: anonguy
    • Replies: @anon

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions .
     
    yes, i think that's becoming very clear
    , @candid_observer
    You're misreading what the bars are telling you. The bars have been normalized so that each, overall, has the same height. Of course, in the actual numbers of various individuals who achieve the higher scores , the unnormalized height would go down. This would be true for all racial groups -- there are many fewer Asians who score, say, 750-800 than score 700-750, or, most likely, 650-700. But the relative proportion of Asians in each of these groups goes up as the scores go up. This is just what you'd expect for a group with a higher overall mean and whose variance is the same. What these bars are telling you is that they have thicker right tails than the other groups.
    , @res

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions .
     
    I think there is something to this. See the PDF I linked and notice the greater within group percentage of Asians than Whites at both the low and high ends.
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  28. @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    “whites resent Ashkenazi Jews”…clever how you slid that in there…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    He's not necessarily wrong. What do you think pogroms were, other than less intelligent debt peons and starving people killing more intelligent loan sharks and hard bargainers?

    Whether the loan sharks/tax farmers/hard bargainers were parasites or symbiotes I'll leave to you. (As well as the question of whether they were simultaneously symbiotes with a selfish elite and parasites upon the poor.)
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  29. @Anon
    What?!

    They have tirelessly honed it to be intelligence-unrelated and we still get this?

    I guess these test-makers will have to think harder to remove the obvious, inherent bias that still lies in the test.

    BTW and seriously, maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide.


    The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it. The gaps are similar on both, however.
     
    So the ACT designers are bias-loving racists as well: good to hear that!

    the Latino-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .65 standard deviations; for the 2016 ACT it was .54 standard deviations
     
    Now that Trump is bullying Mexico we needed all but anti-Latino, Mexico-bullying tests like this SAT and ACT.

    Two questions to you:

    1. So since they removed the regatta questions it hasn’t helped the poor or black students who never go yachting? I’m genuinely surprised.

    2. Will you explain this? “maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide.” The Asian students who get those high scores go on to get good grades in college by studying their asses off. I know there’s cheating, but still, it can’t be all just test-taking skills that make them so successful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    I remember taking the ACT, and the reading comprehension portion (is that a thing, or am I thinking about something else?) was about soap operas. I had half a mind to complain tongue-in-cheekily about sex bias.

    Did anyone honestly ever think blacks (or anyone) was tanking because of white words like "yacht" and "ascot?" Because it sounds like wildly casting for excuses to me. Not to mention the fact that even if they go all hardcore STEM they're gonna have to learn the white man's words to graduate and get by anyway.

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  30. MarkinLA says:
    @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    If I resent Ashkenazi Jews it has noting to do with them being smarter or more successful. It has to do with them being leftist trash who want to turn this country into a shit-hole as well as get us involved in Israel’s wars.

    Maybe that’s why you don’t see a backlash against Asians.

    Read More
    • Agree: Amasius
    • Replies: @Amasius
    Great comment. Overseas Chinese communities act like what the jews think they themselves act like: they keep to themselves and make money. They don't seek to undermine and poison their host societies out of pathological hatred.
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  31. Hail says: • Website

    the ever-growing Asian dominance at the high end.

    How much is Test Prep Effect? Is the Asian-White Gap more than expected from IQ estimates?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Robert Hume
    There might be a statistical test. If one could figure out what a "normal" distribution of scores would be even the normal distribution for IQ, and one could allow for the existence of a upper limit because of not enough difficult questions, then one could test if there is a non-normal excess bulge at the high-level ... due to test prep ... assuming that the less intelligent Asians are less likely to take test prep.

    One might also test for such a bulge in the white, Hispanic, and black test results.
    , @Triumph104

    Use of Test-Prep Courses and Gains, by Race and Ethnicity

    Group, % Taking Test-Prep Course, Post-Course Gain in Points on SAT
    East Asian American 30% 68.8
    Other Asian 15% 23.8
    White 10% 12.3
    Black 16% 14.9
    Hispanic 11% 24.6

    Notably, the gains come on top of unequal results in SAT scores to start with. Average scores for Asian American students (not broken out by East Asian and other Asian) have been growing at much faster rates than have those for other groups in recent years.
     
    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/01/19/study-finds-east-asian-americans-gain-most-sat-courses
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  32. @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    This country is “overer” than over.

    Where have you been for the last 50 years? What you fear has long since come to pass.

    The government requires universities to impose racial quotas to promote “distributive justice” as a condition to participation in Title IV subsidies. Only a few like Grove City refuse the government’s terms.

    Read More
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  33. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    your general point may be correct but

    usury is parasitic and if unconstrained will destroy economies on a cyclical basis so people who can’t wean themselves off usury will be highly unpopular on a cyclical basis

    Read More
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  34. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1


    Something strange is going on with the Asian distribution. Even if the means are shifted, scores usually obey the normal distribution or bell curve, except that the last bar is higher due to the ceiling (or floor) effect - the 750 to 800 bar is extra high because it also includes the students who would have scored between 800 and 900 (if these scores existed). Normally the highest bar is found at the center of the distribution and then they decline as you go outward. You can see this clearly with the bars for whites. BUT, for Asians, the bars for 650-700 are even higher than the bar that contains their mean (600-650).

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions . The 598 group mean is really a blended mean between one group centered around 500 (Filipinos and Pacific Islander?) and a second (smaller) group that is centered around 650 (continental East Asians?).

    Since in the SAT 100 points is 1 SD which is also 10 IQ points, this indicates a mean (nonverbal) IQ for E. Asians in the US of around 115, comparable to Ashkenazi Jews. And there are a lot more Asians than Jews. So expect to see a lot more Asian faces among our future elites.

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions .

    yes, i think that’s becoming very clear

    Read More
    • Replies: @Broski
    Not just Filipinos and Pacific Islanders, but Hmong, Viet, Cambodians, Thai etc. are not that smart. In my experience they tend to be hard working like more northerly Asians, though (with the exception of the Islanders and probably the Hmong).
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  35. anon says: • Disclaimer

    the gap can only be closed biologically

    if SJWs genuinely want an egalitarian society they need to stop fooling themselves

    there is no way to achieve it without focusing on the genetics

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    there is no way to achieve it without focusing on the genetics
     
    That's why the media's pushing race mixing so hard.
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  36. El Dato says:
    @Desiderius

    This country is “overer” than over.
     
    Colleges are not this country.

    England survived without it's monasteries, we can survive without colleges.

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.

    It’s “its monasteries”

    These were pretty good stores of accumulated knowledge though.

    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It’s just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It’s where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state’s predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It’s where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state’s predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.
     
    What do you do when your colleges have been taken over by the raiding parties to more effectively plot and rationalize the predatory wealth collection?
    , @bomag

    It’s just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.
     
    The Muslim world has actively destroyed more mental achievement than probably any other culture on this planet. Their few tidbits of accomplishment are over-hyped by the apologists to lessen the horror that is in store for us all as they march on.
    , @roo_ster
    El dato wrote...
    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It’s just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    Not so much. The arabs came by the classics by way of syriac translations made by christians left in syria the levant and such after arab muslim conquest. Then they were translated into arabic.

    Thus averrores was reading aristotle 3rd hand. Greek to syriac to arabic.

    And there was no need for the latin west to have arabs translate greek works into latin. Up to the 1400s they had the byzantine / roman empire to preserve the greek classics and translate them into latin or hand them over to the latins to do the work their own selves.
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  37. Langley says:

    “The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it.”

    Can you expand on this? Why is ACT Red State and SAT Blue State?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    SAT run from Princeton, NJ, ACT from Iowa, I think from Iowa City.

    In the past, the SAT was dominant on the coasts, the ACT in the middle of the country. Lately they are pretty competitive across the country.

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  38. Langley says:

    ” it is unlikely that the racial achievement gap can be explained away by class differences across race.”

    Perhaps the class differences can be explained away by race? Perhaps differences in class and race can be explained by a number of biological factors?

    My senior honors thesis advisor, R.B. Cattell, did good work on this using factor analysis back in the 1940s. He was “Watsond” for it.

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  39. SPMoore8 says:
    @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    I was thinking about that last night because I was a bit perturbed with the racial distribution change at Berkeley, which was not the case when I was there, but I haven’t lived in the Bay Area for decades, so what did I know. Meanwhile, my family which still lives there sent none of their kids to Berkeley, although they went elsewhere in the state university system, and I think the imbalance may well explain that. I mean, people don’t always talk about why they do things.

    Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that’s probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new “Mandarin Class.”

    I think the thing with Asians as of right now is that while their over-representation in elite colleges is a fact of life (and, I should emphasize, well-earned and possibly also even lower than it should be, just going by grades and scores) their representation in our various economic, political and cultural elites is still at about the level (or even below) their percentage of the population. However, that is likely to change in coming decades.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early '20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in "white shoe" law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today's whites will look back fondly on the "good old days" when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It's amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy's 600 beats Lee Ro's 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don't really "count" in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    I was at Berkeley from 1967-1971. I have been a "racial realist" since I was maybe 8 years old, so I did a lot of noticing while I was there. Asians were around in very small numbers; they never bothered me in the slightest; I even knew and liked some, but then again these were Japanese, i.e. honorary Aryans. Blacks? Perhaps a few on the athletic side of life, but everybody knew what that meant.
    The Jews were everywhere in math, science and fake (positivist) philosophy. Some were admirable; indeed, I knew none who were not. There was only one in the history department, but he had converted to Congregationalism and probably regretted his black wavy locks. He lectured very entertainingly on modern European history, and I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
    There was a secret Jew in my fraternity as well; it was amusing to bait him occasionally because he never failed to rise. But he was of a conservative temper, and I liked him too.
    I've never looked up to the Jews though, and laugh if someone (like Jack D) preens about an imagined superiority. Or, if you like, a testable superiority. Genius is not like that, and a race which has produced a Bach, a Newton and a Leibnitz, not to mention an Aristotle, has no reason at all to look up enviously at the race which gave us Mahler, Freud, and Marx.
    , @Jefferson
    "Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that’s probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new “Mandarin Class.”

    Has there been a backlash yet over Asian dominance of Silicon Valley? And if that backlash ever occurs will it come from Whites, Hispanics, or African Americans? Or all 3?

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  40. Can I just say, before anyone else does that I blame Trump!

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  41. Langley says:

    OT?

    “Hawaiians suffer cancer more than other isle groups”

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/2017/02/04/business/hawaiians-suffer-cancer-more-than-other-isle-groups/?HSA=72ee5f0989dd34d4226e6c91fa86002cc8db0393

    The StarAdvertiser, like most of the State, is controlled by the Friends and Family of the 442nd/Democrat party. The comments section to this article is interesting. It suggests that the rulers are unable to block all dissent.

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  42. Langley says:

    Evidence is mounting for genetic determinants or at least influences in personality and behavior. In the last century it was only correlational. Today it is biological.

    What will be the Religious Left’s response to this?

    Denial? Persecution of scientist whose work they hate (Cattell, Watson, Richwine, etc)
    Demand for the destruction of those with privileged genes?
    Demand for the destruction of those without privileged genes?
    Doubling down on redistribution of wealth and privileges?

    What have rulers done to dissenters throughout history?
    Is this still feasible today?

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  43. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    A key difference is that Asians have – or had – an enormous rate of out-marrying with whites.
    Resentment seems to follow a ‘clannishness’ reaction in which ethnies that are deemed to deliberately set themselves apart are the targets.

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  44. SteveM says:

    An analysis of the 2013-2014 LSAT finds an average black score of 142 compared to an average white score of 153. This amounts to a black-white achievement gap of 1.06 standard deviations, even higher than that on the SAT.

    Whoever wrote that apparently knows nothing about statistics. That statement is meaningless. There is NO explicit correlation between a mean and a standard deviation. I.e., two empirical distributions can have the same mean but wildly different standard deviations.

    If the clueless author meant the ratio of the White:Black scores, well ratio comparisons are meaningless using a scale that is not zero based. E.g. Kelvin temperature ratios have meaning, Celsius and Fahrenheit do not other than the obvious. I.e., one item is hotter than the other. The SAT is not zero based. I can’t speak to the ACT and LSAT.

    The takeaway is that using garbage statistics can result in garbage analysis.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Umm, the ratio of 153:142 is 1.o8, not 1.06.

    However, the LSAT SD in 2013-14 was 10.38. Since the gap was 11, this is a gap of 11/10.38, or 1.06 SD

    So yes, SOMEONE knows nothing about statistics.
    , @peter johnson
    The analysis of distance in standard deviations between two means is very standard and reasonable; I do not see why you call it "garbage statistics." There are three standard deviations here: the standard deviation of White scores, the standard deviation of Black scores, and the standard deviation of all scores. All three are well-defined and reasonably estimated from the data. Incidentally, means and standard deviations are population parameters not random variables -- they do not have "correlation" which is a property of two random variables, not two parameters. Measuring the difference between two means as a multiple of s.d.'s is very standard, and can provide the basis for a classical hypothesis test, for example.
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  45. @Hail

    the ever-growing Asian dominance at the high end.
     
    How much is Test Prep Effect? Is the Asian-White Gap more than expected from IQ estimates?

    There might be a statistical test. If one could figure out what a “normal” distribution of scores would be even the normal distribution for IQ, and one could allow for the existence of a upper limit because of not enough difficult questions, then one could test if there is a non-normal excess bulge at the high-level … due to test prep … assuming that the less intelligent Asians are less likely to take test prep.

    One might also test for such a bulge in the white, Hispanic, and black test results.

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  46. pyrrhus says:
    @guest
    The Gap (tm) is endless job security for educationists and public "servants" of all kinds. In this sense, blank slate-ism and anti-HBD are successful because they fail.

    It’s a good thing that only Racists think the Gap is due to hereditary differences, ‘cuz otherwise all that money would be wasted….

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  47. Jack D says:
    @SPMoore8
    I was thinking about that last night because I was a bit perturbed with the racial distribution change at Berkeley, which was not the case when I was there, but I haven't lived in the Bay Area for decades, so what did I know. Meanwhile, my family which still lives there sent none of their kids to Berkeley, although they went elsewhere in the state university system, and I think the imbalance may well explain that. I mean, people don't always talk about why they do things.

    Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that's probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new "Mandarin Class."

    I think the thing with Asians as of right now is that while their over-representation in elite colleges is a fact of life (and, I should emphasize, well-earned and possibly also even lower than it should be, just going by grades and scores) their representation in our various economic, political and cultural elites is still at about the level (or even below) their percentage of the population. However, that is likely to change in coming decades.

    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early ’20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in “white shoe” law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today’s whites will look back fondly on the “good old days” when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It’s amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy’s 600 beats Lee Ro’s 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don’t really “count” in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I think this "Coalition of Fringes" is complicated. Though they get shafted by Affirmative Action, Asians go through our schooling system, studying (earnestly) slavery, Jim Crow, abuse and exclusion of Asians, internment camps, wars in Japan, Korea, Vietnam portrayed as anti-Asian "Hate Wars". So it is no surprise that they get well primed to start their post-scholastic life with a full dose of liberal theology. Remember, "Coalition of fringes", has plenty of whites, usually well educated and intelligent. We have to thank the "Coalition of the poorly educated", much more than we do.
    , @anon

    I only wonder whether today’s whites will look back fondly on the “good old days” when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.
     
    Jews are responsible for opening the borders - so obviously not.

    Jews will regret using the short time they were in charge to pull the rug out from under themselves - like they always do as a result of their evolved paranoia.
    , @Johann Ricke

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don’t really “count” in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.
     
    I believe the lefty Jewish explanation is Tikkun Olam (i.e. Jewish altruism/noblesse oblige with respect to those of lesser ability). Problem is I don't think Asians have a similar concept, at least not in their native environment. From what I can see, the Asian thing is more "what's the point of being a big shot if you can't step on the people below"?
    , @heh
    Unz's magisterial 2012 article on higher education discrimination shows quite clearly that Jewish student performance has dropped significantly in the last 25 years or more. It also shows that once you adjust for the overrepresentation of Jews in Ivy league schools, the most discriminated demographic are WASPs, not Asians. IIRC, Jews should be around 5-7% of Ivy League enrollment according to Unz's article yet are close to 25% in many universities like Harvard.

    In fact, the anti-white discrimination conceals an even bigger one. That pertains to rural, red state whites. Unz showed that people with pro-military and other conservative associations were even more discriminated against than WASPs in general.

    I find it curious that you completely omit that. Instead you only focus on Jews from the 1920s, or Asians today. Nothing on whites.

    I also find it interesting that you completely avoid talking about HA's exposé of your comment in 2015, where he acidly points out that condescension goes both ways. Yet you seem to be *very* keen on protecting Jews, avoiding talking about discrimination against WASPs in higher ed and go out of your way to shield Jews from bigotry accusations.

    This is especially notable because a lot of Ivy league universities have had Jewish deans in the last 20-30 years when this divergence really started to explode, and many still do, yet this ongoing discrimination against whites is not something they have felt is needed to talk about or act on about. Yet we endlessly hear from Jewish writers (and curiously, yourself) about the 1920s and 1930s. I'm sure you'll find a way to excuse this bigotry as well, just as you have consistently sought to downplay or ignore anti-white discrimination and shield Jews from their own bigotry.

    Or maybe, ongoing with your ongoing pattern, you'll just try to sweep it under the carpet and don't talk about it.

    You're not very good at hiding your loyalties.

    , @Daniel Chieh
    Keeping quiet is a strong part of our culture. That kind of discrimination did indeed repel me from the coalition of the fringes, but it doesn't seem to have impacted other members of my race, unfortunately.
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  48. @Jack D
    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1


    Something strange is going on with the Asian distribution. Even if the means are shifted, scores usually obey the normal distribution or bell curve, except that the last bar is higher due to the ceiling (or floor) effect - the 750 to 800 bar is extra high because it also includes the students who would have scored between 800 and 900 (if these scores existed). Normally the highest bar is found at the center of the distribution and then they decline as you go outward. You can see this clearly with the bars for whites. BUT, for Asians, the bars for 650-700 are even higher than the bar that contains their mean (600-650).

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions . The 598 group mean is really a blended mean between one group centered around 500 (Filipinos and Pacific Islander?) and a second (smaller) group that is centered around 650 (continental East Asians?).

    Since in the SAT 100 points is 1 SD which is also 10 IQ points, this indicates a mean (nonverbal) IQ for E. Asians in the US of around 115, comparable to Ashkenazi Jews. And there are a lot more Asians than Jews. So expect to see a lot more Asian faces among our future elites.

    You’re misreading what the bars are telling you. The bars have been normalized so that each, overall, has the same height. Of course, in the actual numbers of various individuals who achieve the higher scores , the unnormalized height would go down. This would be true for all racial groups — there are many fewer Asians who score, say, 750-800 than score 700-750, or, most likely, 650-700. But the relative proportion of Asians in each of these groups goes up as the scores go up. This is just what you’d expect for a group with a higher overall mean and whose variance is the same. What these bars are telling you is that they have thicker right tails than the other groups.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    No I'm not. The bars for the other groups form normal (bell) curves centered around their respective group means (the black and Hispanic left tails are missing) , but the Asia scores alone don't seem to be normally distributed at all on the right side of the curve and even after discounting ceiling effect.
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  49. HA says:
    @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    >“Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations …whites resent Ashkenazi Jews…”

    So says the guy who complains about envious “local drunken peasantry”.

    In other words, the resentment seems to go both ways, and if it’s the case that a significant number of other Ashkenazi regard the local “market submissive majorities” in the same way you do, I’m going to guess that significant portion of the resentment that whites feel towards them has nothing whatsoever to do with IQ.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    As I said before, if you don't like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords (I for one welcome them!*). Perhaps the way Americans got treated in Japanese POW camps will give you a hint of things to come.

    *For the slow witted this is a joke and a Simpson's reference, just like Gorsuch was not REALLY the head of the Fascist Club in his high school. In fact, he came in 3rd in the balloting for Fascist club leader. No, no that's not it - there was NO fascist club in his high school.
    , @Jack D
    the resentment seems to go both ways

    Thank goodness this is only true in the case of Jew-peasant interactions. We know that in America, found on principles of Christian charity, white resentment of blacks is completely non-existent (or if it exists, it is amply justified by black dysfunctionality, whereas Jewish resentment is always baseless - the pure hearted peasants never did anything to deserve such contempt).
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  50. @Jack D
    Something is missing from the graph. They aren't showing the bars from 200 to 300. I wonder why? Since the graphs are sort of mirror images of each other on the left and right, could it be that blacks and Hispanics make up 90+% of those scoring between 200 and 250?

    Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn’t go unless you were deliberately giving false answers? That even answering randomly, you’re bound to get a certain percentage correct? I don’t know what that floor would be.

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    • Replies: @HA
    ">Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn’t go unless you were deliberately giving false answers? "

    You need a raw score of 1 or lower on each section to get a scaled score of 200 on the Redesigned SAT, which means you basically have to get every single question wrong. So even if you just give up on the test and fill in every answer bubble with a "C," you'll definitely get more than 1 raw point on each section, and thus get a higher score than a 400.
     
    http://blog.prepscholar.com/whats-the-lowest-sat-score-possible-how-many-get-it
    , @Jack D
    Yes the floor on the SAT is 200. Even zero right answers is a 200. But scores between 200 and 300 are possible and have been omitted from the graph, I assume intentionally because they are dominated by blacks and Hispanics.
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  51. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Slightly off topic but relevant (Flynn effect).

    Some recent work on mechanisms of sleep suggests that sleep exists because (very handwavy) neurons grow and make connections during the day and then at night the neurons that made connections that aren’t relevant to the day’s events (or to somesuch) physically shrink back and become unconnected. So the brain kind of oscillates between “growing” during the day and “shrinking” during the night. If this wasn’t done the brain would be overwhelmed with meaningless connections.

    If quality of sleep is crucial to intelligence, an obvious driver for the Flynn effect (IQ slightly rising over, say, the last century) might be that the quality of childhood sleep increased during the same period (due to factors such as sleeping in separate rooms, larger houses, living in quieter suburbs, and so on). The Flynn effect seems to be currently undergoing a slight reversal. That might be due to kids playing computer games in their rooms, being on the internet, texting, or being on the phone rather than sleeping, that is, the quality of kids sleep is going back down.

    “The Purpose of Sleep? To Forget, Scientists Say”, Carl Zimmer, NY Times, FEB. 2, 2017.

    “Sleep deprivation handicaps the brain’s ability to form new memories, mouse study shows: Chemical recalibration of brain cells during sleep is crucial for learning, and sleeping pills may sabotage it”, ScienceDaily, February 2, 2017, Johns Hopkins Medicine:

    “…a key purpose of sleep is to recalibrate the brain cells responsible for learning and memory so the animals can ‘solidify’ lessons learned and use them when they awaken…”

    “Sleep research high-resolution images show how the brain resets during sleep”, ScienceDaily, February 2, 2017, University of Wisconsin-Madison:

    “…Our synapses — the junctions between nerve cells — grow strong and large during the stimulation of daytime, then shrink by nearly 20 percent while we sleep, creating room for more growth and learning the next day.”

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My quality of sleep has been going up due to better technology like better earplugs, better windows, and I finally stopped stupidly sleeping under three blankets in winter and switched to an electric blanket.
    , @anon
    also the 3rd world's consumption of fish has gone up since ww2

    it might be interesting to correlate that to national Flynn effects
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  52. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early '20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in "white shoe" law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today's whites will look back fondly on the "good old days" when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It's amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy's 600 beats Lee Ro's 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don't really "count" in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    I think this “Coalition of Fringes” is complicated. Though they get shafted by Affirmative Action, Asians go through our schooling system, studying (earnestly) slavery, Jim Crow, abuse and exclusion of Asians, internment camps, wars in Japan, Korea, Vietnam portrayed as anti-Asian “Hate Wars”. So it is no surprise that they get well primed to start their post-scholastic life with a full dose of liberal theology. Remember, “Coalition of fringes”, has plenty of whites, usually well educated and intelligent. We have to thank the “Coalition of the poorly educated”, much more than we do.

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  53. The black-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .88 standard deviations. For the 2016 ACT it was .87 standard deviations.

    By my understanding of statistics, that makes the 2016 ACT .01 standard deviations less racist, so now we’re getting somewhere!

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  54. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early '20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in "white shoe" law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today's whites will look back fondly on the "good old days" when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It's amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy's 600 beats Lee Ro's 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don't really "count" in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    I only wonder whether today’s whites will look back fondly on the “good old days” when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Jews are responsible for opening the borders – so obviously not.

    Jews will regret using the short time they were in charge to pull the rug out from under themselves – like they always do as a result of their evolved paranoia.

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  55. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer
    You're misreading what the bars are telling you. The bars have been normalized so that each, overall, has the same height. Of course, in the actual numbers of various individuals who achieve the higher scores , the unnormalized height would go down. This would be true for all racial groups -- there are many fewer Asians who score, say, 750-800 than score 700-750, or, most likely, 650-700. But the relative proportion of Asians in each of these groups goes up as the scores go up. This is just what you'd expect for a group with a higher overall mean and whose variance is the same. What these bars are telling you is that they have thicker right tails than the other groups.

    No I’m not. The bars for the other groups form normal (bell) curves centered around their respective group means (the black and Hispanic left tails are missing) , but the Asia scores alone don’t seem to be normally distributed at all on the right side of the curve and even after discounting ceiling effect.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Sorry, you're just wrong about this.

    Even your statement that all the other groups show up in the graph so that their greatest representation is at their mean is wrong: blacks average 425 on the math SAT, and Latinos 453, but in both cases, their largest proportion of the bars is at the very lowest SAT score, 300-350.

    Only whites show a representation in the bars depicted that vaguely mimics the shape of their normal curve. That's almost altogether because they are by far the largest group overall.
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  56. HA says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn't go unless you were deliberately giving false answers? That even answering randomly, you're bound to get a certain percentage correct? I don't know what that floor would be.

    “>Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn’t go unless you were deliberately giving false answers?

    You need a raw score of 1 or lower on each section to get a scaled score of 200 on the Redesigned SAT, which means you basically have to get every single question wrong. So even if you just give up on the test and fill in every answer bubble with a “C,” you’ll definitely get more than 1 raw point on each section, and thus get a higher score than a 400.

    http://blog.prepscholar.com/whats-the-lowest-sat-score-possible-how-many-get-it

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    On the old SAT there was a guessing penalty - your raw score was Right - 1/4 Wrong, to discourage random guessing or just filling in all C bubbles. However, this is somehow against distributive justice or something in the new diverse America so there is no longer any guessing penalty. So, if you just fill in all the bubbles with C you should get around a 380 nowadays.

    And yet there are many scores between 200 and 380, especially among blacks and Hispanics (380 is not that far from the black mean of 428) - how is this possible? A lot of the slower students don't get to the end of the test and leave bubbles empty, so they get zero for those. Also, on each SAT question, there are one or more wrong answers that are known as "distractors". If the problem is "what is the difference between 3 and 2?", the distractor will be things like 5 and -1. Really stupid people are drawn to the distractor more often than the correct answer, so people who are really trying to get the right answer will score lower than those who guess randomly.
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  57. Jack D says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn't go unless you were deliberately giving false answers? That even answering randomly, you're bound to get a certain percentage correct? I don't know what that floor would be.

    Yes the floor on the SAT is 200. Even zero right answers is a 200. But scores between 200 and 300 are possible and have been omitted from the graph, I assume intentionally because they are dominated by blacks and Hispanics.

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    • Replies: @james wilson
    With a 200 floor, to zero out at 200 with a multiple guess test would require real intelligence. That is why it does not happen. It is more likely that a score of 300 actually can be achieved by random choice. Thus, a score of 300 would also represent a true zero. A non-multiple choice test with no floor but zero and a max of 600 would leave fewer souls at the 500-600 range than those at the zero to 50 range, and thus would too illuminating for delicate and noble sensibilities.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Thank you for the clarification.
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  58. Never mind the race gaps. I want to know the gaps at the individual level– between what the kid can do, and what he is merely asked to do.

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  59. @Jack D
    No I'm not. The bars for the other groups form normal (bell) curves centered around their respective group means (the black and Hispanic left tails are missing) , but the Asia scores alone don't seem to be normally distributed at all on the right side of the curve and even after discounting ceiling effect.

    Sorry, you’re just wrong about this.

    Even your statement that all the other groups show up in the graph so that their greatest representation is at their mean is wrong: blacks average 425 on the math SAT, and Latinos 453, but in both cases, their largest proportion of the bars is at the very lowest SAT score, 300-350.

    Only whites show a representation in the bars depicted that vaguely mimics the shape of their normal curve. That’s almost altogether because they are by far the largest group overall.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    You're looking at a different graph than I am. Not the graph that Steve gave at the top of this post but the graph that's in the original article. This one:

    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1
    , @res

    Sorry, you’re just wrong about this.
     
    You and Jack should really check the PDF I linked. I think the data presentation there is better suited to your discussion than Steve's plots.
    Though the plot Jack referenced is good except for omitting the low end.
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  60. Jack D says:
    @HA
    ">Is it possible that there is a floor below which you couldn’t go unless you were deliberately giving false answers? "

    You need a raw score of 1 or lower on each section to get a scaled score of 200 on the Redesigned SAT, which means you basically have to get every single question wrong. So even if you just give up on the test and fill in every answer bubble with a "C," you'll definitely get more than 1 raw point on each section, and thus get a higher score than a 400.
     
    http://blog.prepscholar.com/whats-the-lowest-sat-score-possible-how-many-get-it

    On the old SAT there was a guessing penalty – your raw score was Right – 1/4 Wrong, to discourage random guessing or just filling in all C bubbles. However, this is somehow against distributive justice or something in the new diverse America so there is no longer any guessing penalty. So, if you just fill in all the bubbles with C you should get around a 380 nowadays.

    And yet there are many scores between 200 and 380, especially among blacks and Hispanics (380 is not that far from the black mean of 428) – how is this possible? A lot of the slower students don’t get to the end of the test and leave bubbles empty, so they get zero for those. Also, on each SAT question, there are one or more wrong answers that are known as “distractors”. If the problem is “what is the difference between 3 and 2?”, the distractor will be things like 5 and -1. Really stupid people are drawn to the distractor more often than the correct answer, so people who are really trying to get the right answer will score lower than those who guess randomly.

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  61. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer
    Sorry, you're just wrong about this.

    Even your statement that all the other groups show up in the graph so that their greatest representation is at their mean is wrong: blacks average 425 on the math SAT, and Latinos 453, but in both cases, their largest proportion of the bars is at the very lowest SAT score, 300-350.

    Only whites show a representation in the bars depicted that vaguely mimics the shape of their normal curve. That's almost altogether because they are by far the largest group overall.

    You’re looking at a different graph than I am. Not the graph that Steve gave at the top of this post but the graph that’s in the original article. This one:

    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    OK, sorry, I do see your point about the other graph.

    On the other hand, Asian performance can be entirely explained by a ceiling effect.

    One can take essentially any normal curve, cut it off at any point above the mean, and, if you choose a fine enough bin size to represent the curve in a histogram, and accumulate the remainder of the curve past the cutoff point into one bin, the height of that bin will be greater than that of the previous bin.

    Very likely, that's effectively what is going on with the Asian scores here.
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  62. It’s a generalisation, but in a democracy high verbal IQ is necessary for political power. Persuasion requires a skilful tongue. East Asians may have higher IQ, but the verbal element is not outstanding. Therefore I don’t expect an Asian political class becoming dominant, though Asians will out-earn Whites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    south Asians have the verbal thing so east Asians in STEM, south Asians in politics, media etc
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  63. Mr. Anon says:
    @grey enlightenment2
    We need earlier intervention...don't stop with universal pre-K..we need pre-pre-pre k to close the gap.

    “We need earlier intervention…don’t stop with universal pre-K..we need pre-pre-pre k to close the gap.”

    Perhaps closing the gap requires that we, as a society, commit ourselves to the national goal of building a time machine, so as to go back in the past and prevent the gap from every arising in the first place.

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  64. @Jack D
    Yes the floor on the SAT is 200. Even zero right answers is a 200. But scores between 200 and 300 are possible and have been omitted from the graph, I assume intentionally because they are dominated by blacks and Hispanics.

    With a 200 floor, to zero out at 200 with a multiple guess test would require real intelligence. That is why it does not happen. It is more likely that a score of 300 actually can be achieved by random choice. Thus, a score of 300 would also represent a true zero. A non-multiple choice test with no floor but zero and a max of 600 would leave fewer souls at the 500-600 range than those at the zero to 50 range, and thus would too illuminating for delicate and noble sensibilities.

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  65. res says:
    @Jack D
    Something is missing from the graph. They aren't showing the bars from 200 to 300. I wonder why? Since the graphs are sort of mirror images of each other on the left and right, could it be that blacks and Hispanics make up 90+% of those scoring between 200 and 250?

    Nice catch. Here is a slightly different look at the data from the source referenced in the plots:

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    I did not check rigorously (you would need to multiply the percentages by populations and then divide by total population, more math than I felt like doing), but it looks like your speculation is in the ballpark.

    At the low end Whites do best (i.e. least represented per capita, 1% 250-300, 1-% 200-250) with Asians a bit behind. Blacks are worst with 7-8% 250-300 and 3% 200-250. One interesting feature of the data is they break Hispanics into three groups: Mexican or Mexican American; Puerto Rican; Latin American, Central American, South American, or Other Latino. One thing that does is supply SAT taking student population numbers for those subgroups

    It would be interesting to reanalyze the data. I tried converting the PDF tables to text like:

    https://www.economicsnetwork.ac.uk/tips/pdf2excel

    but it did not work in my Word 2007. Someone with a more recent version may want to try.

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  66. res says:
    @Jack D
    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1


    Something strange is going on with the Asian distribution. Even if the means are shifted, scores usually obey the normal distribution or bell curve, except that the last bar is higher due to the ceiling (or floor) effect - the 750 to 800 bar is extra high because it also includes the students who would have scored between 800 and 900 (if these scores existed). Normally the highest bar is found at the center of the distribution and then they decline as you go outward. You can see this clearly with the bars for whites. BUT, for Asians, the bars for 650-700 are even higher than the bar that contains their mean (600-650).

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions . The 598 group mean is really a blended mean between one group centered around 500 (Filipinos and Pacific Islander?) and a second (smaller) group that is centered around 650 (continental East Asians?).

    Since in the SAT 100 points is 1 SD which is also 10 IQ points, this indicates a mean (nonverbal) IQ for E. Asians in the US of around 115, comparable to Ashkenazi Jews. And there are a lot more Asians than Jews. So expect to see a lot more Asian faces among our future elites.

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions .

    I think there is something to this. See the PDF I linked and notice the greater within group percentage of Asians than Whites at both the low and high ends.

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  67. res says:
    @candid_observer
    Sorry, you're just wrong about this.

    Even your statement that all the other groups show up in the graph so that their greatest representation is at their mean is wrong: blacks average 425 on the math SAT, and Latinos 453, but in both cases, their largest proportion of the bars is at the very lowest SAT score, 300-350.

    Only whites show a representation in the bars depicted that vaguely mimics the shape of their normal curve. That's almost altogether because they are by far the largest group overall.

    Sorry, you’re just wrong about this.

    You and Jack should really check the PDF I linked. I think the data presentation there is better suited to your discussion than Steve’s plots.
    Though the plot Jack referenced is good except for omitting the low end.

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  68. @Jack D
    You're looking at a different graph than I am. Not the graph that Steve gave at the top of this post but the graph that's in the original article. This one:

    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_1.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

    OK, sorry, I do see your point about the other graph.

    On the other hand, Asian performance can be entirely explained by a ceiling effect.

    One can take essentially any normal curve, cut it off at any point above the mean, and, if you choose a fine enough bin size to represent the curve in a histogram, and accumulate the remainder of the curve past the cutoff point into one bin, the height of that bin will be greater than that of the previous bin.

    Very likely, that’s effectively what is going on with the Asian scores here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    That would explain the last bar being extra high (as I said before, the bar for 750 to 800 includes all the scores above 800 if such scores existed) but not any to the left. The people to the right of the cutoff all spill back solely into the highest bin before the cutoff and not any of the lower bars.
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  69. Jack D says:
    @HA
    >"Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations ...whites resent Ashkenazi Jews..."

    So says the guy who complains about envious "local drunken peasantry".

    In other words, the resentment seems to go both ways, and if it's the case that a significant number of other Ashkenazi regard the local "market submissive majorities" in the same way you do, I'm going to guess that significant portion of the resentment that whites feel towards them has nothing whatsoever to do with IQ.

    As I said before, if you don’t like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords (I for one welcome them!*). Perhaps the way Americans got treated in Japanese POW camps will give you a hint of things to come.

    *For the slow witted this is a joke and a Simpson’s reference, just like Gorsuch was not REALLY the head of the Fascist Club in his high school. In fact, he came in 3rd in the balloting for Fascist club leader. No, no that’s not it – there was NO fascist club in his high school.

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    • Replies: @heh
    Asians are far less hostile to whites. If they weren't, we would have noticed by now. I thought you were Jewish, at least your constant defence of Jewish hostility, your refusal to talk about Jewish anti-white bigotry(including in higher education), could be understood in that context. But it appears it is much worse. You're a goywhore. What a decrepit, pathetic creature you are.
    , @HA
    >"if you don’t like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords..."

    Spare me the shift-the-blame tactics. You think I can't see through that?

    Here, I'll do you one better: for the record, the biggest problem the deplorables have is neither with Jews, nor with Asians, but rather, the pasty goyishe Hillary Clintons of the world, who will happily dump on those same deplorables whatever setbacks and dysfunctions that integration and multiculturalism (and whatever other buzzword we're supposed to embrace these days) will bring their way, confident as they are that their children's schools and admission slots and internships will remain secure.

    That still doesn't mean you get a pass whenever you start piling on.

    , @Bill
    Asians don't reproduce. The ones who do, do so with whites. There will be no Asian overlords because there will be no Asians.
    , @Jefferson
    "As I said before, if you don’t like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords"

    Asian business owners in The U.S rarely give out jobs to Non Asians, so expect the unemployment rate for African Americans and Hispanics to skyrocket even higher if the American upper middle class and American upper class ever become disproportionately Asian.

    For example there is a McDonald's in 55 percent Asian Daly City that only hires Asians. Daly City is a suburb of San Francisco.

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  70. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer
    OK, sorry, I do see your point about the other graph.

    On the other hand, Asian performance can be entirely explained by a ceiling effect.

    One can take essentially any normal curve, cut it off at any point above the mean, and, if you choose a fine enough bin size to represent the curve in a histogram, and accumulate the remainder of the curve past the cutoff point into one bin, the height of that bin will be greater than that of the previous bin.

    Very likely, that's effectively what is going on with the Asian scores here.

    That would explain the last bar being extra high (as I said before, the bar for 750 to 800 includes all the scores above 800 if such scores existed) but not any to the left. The people to the right of the cutoff all spill back solely into the highest bin before the cutoff and not any of the lower bars.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Reading your original comment more carefully, I can see your problem is mainly with the apparent discrepancy toward the middle of the distribution, where the mean for Asians (which is 602) is not within the bin which is highest in the distribution, namely that between 650 and 700.

    But here too I think the ultimate explanation is due to the ceiling effect, because that distorts the "real" mean one would expect to see if the normal curve weren't cut off by the ceiling. Those higher numbers in a "real" curve, which wouldn't be truncated, don't turn up, and are replaced by the lower ceiling number. In the "real" curve, the mean would likely be between 650 and 700. The ceiling presumably pulls down the mean to 602.
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  71. Whiskey says: • Website

    Asians won’t run America since there will not BE an America to run. Its’ already cracking apart. Mexico’s annexation of California, and possibly Arizona are baked into the cake. Already Mexifornian pols are putting a Secession initiative on the ballot. It would likely win. And there is secessionist sentiment in withholding money and cooperation with the Feds.

    The 19th Century barons worried that the cheap Asian labor would lead to their property being seized by a mass of Chinese. Which is why the influx of millions did not happen. Today Zuck and company have little property at risk, their global financial instruments are hard to get at. So they are fine with half of China and Mexico pouring in.

    The big question is what chunks of California will become China as California breaks away, in the aftermath of a failed or successful coup against Trump (either Sisi or Erdogan model as you like)? My guess is LA, SF, get made into Chinese territory the way that China has threatened Taiwan and parts of Indonesia (in the case the latter get anti-Chinese purges underway again).

    Yes we have nukes and kick-ass special forces. So did the Soviet Union.

    The Ashley Judds of the US would be fine with this btw. There is nothing worse for society than aging sluts angry at beta males for not being sexy, and the top 5% of Alphas for not marrying them. The only solution is to make them fear the beta males. Abject FEAR is the best remedy in a chaotic group oriented society, game theory alone shows that cohesion and FEAR get massive concession. See Muslims. Until and unless White men are abjectly feared by all the anti-White male purges will continue.

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  72. Forbes says:
    @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    It seems likely, however… suggests that… may have… may not be…

    Perhaps they should use more hedge phrases in their conclusions.

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  73. @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations – blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc.

    Sounds like separatism is needed. subSaharan Africa for Black Africans, their own country for Ashkenazi Jews … oh wait. There is one. Israel.

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  74. @Jack D
    That would explain the last bar being extra high (as I said before, the bar for 750 to 800 includes all the scores above 800 if such scores existed) but not any to the left. The people to the right of the cutoff all spill back solely into the highest bin before the cutoff and not any of the lower bars.

    Reading your original comment more carefully, I can see your problem is mainly with the apparent discrepancy toward the middle of the distribution, where the mean for Asians (which is 602) is not within the bin which is highest in the distribution, namely that between 650 and 700.

    But here too I think the ultimate explanation is due to the ceiling effect, because that distorts the “real” mean one would expect to see if the normal curve weren’t cut off by the ceiling. Those higher numbers in a “real” curve, which wouldn’t be truncated, don’t turn up, and are replaced by the lower ceiling number. In the “real” curve, the mean would likely be between 650 and 700. The ceiling presumably pulls down the mean to 602.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I agree, but this still puts the "true" Asian mean at 650 or so, again 1.5 SDs ahead of whites, in Ashkenazi Jewish territory (or better). And Asian is a big basket that includes some lower functioning groups such as Filipinos, Hmong, etc. so for Han, Koreans, etc. the number might be even higher.

    That the NY admission by test high schools are now 75% Asian may give you a hint of things to come and a clue at how much discrimination is being practiced at places like Harvard to keep that from happening. This mirrors what happened during the great Jewish migration wave. Even the pretext that is used to exclude them, "holistic" admission, is the same. In places that don't have racial concerns (e.g. Japan) there is no such thing as holistic admissions. They just rank order the test takers and fill their class from the top down - this saves them a whole lot of time and money spent reading college applications and the end results are better.
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  75. Jack D says:
    @HA
    >"Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations ...whites resent Ashkenazi Jews..."

    So says the guy who complains about envious "local drunken peasantry".

    In other words, the resentment seems to go both ways, and if it's the case that a significant number of other Ashkenazi regard the local "market submissive majorities" in the same way you do, I'm going to guess that significant portion of the resentment that whites feel towards them has nothing whatsoever to do with IQ.

    the resentment seems to go both ways

    Thank goodness this is only true in the case of Jew-peasant interactions. We know that in America, found on principles of Christian charity, white resentment of blacks is completely non-existent (or if it exists, it is amply justified by black dysfunctionality, whereas Jewish resentment is always baseless – the pure hearted peasants never did anything to deserve such contempt).

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    • Replies: @OhSure
    Again, you completely omit Jewish bigotry and racism. As if it's a natural right to have your tribe at 25% in Harvard even as SAT scores indicate it should be closer to 5-7%. Read the 2012 Unz article on higher ed again.

    The shares are only being kept up because of ethnocentrism and whites and Asians pay the price.

    Why are you so desperate to shield them? Instead you talk down on Asians. Asians didn't institute this system, Jews have. Yet to you they are perpetual victims.

    It's really amazing how much of a slave you are to Jewish interests, how much you deny the racism which keeps whites and Asians out. You're either a Jewish troll or a goywhore.

    , @HA
    ">We know that in America, found on principles of Christian charity, white resentment of blacks is completely non-existent"

    Non-existent, you say? Oddly enough, I've heard quite a bit about white resentment of blacks from... oh I dunno, just about every single Western media outlet known to mankind.

    You want to tell me that Jewish resentment against the "drunken local peasantry", to use your phrasing, is met with the same pushback and media attention as white-on-black resentment? If you honestly believe that, then what does that say for your own IQ? -- I mean, how would you even know what higher IQ populations think?

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  76. guest says:
    @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    There already is “[re]distributive justice” in college admissions, duh. Who on earth thinks academic preparation is the only criterion?

    By the way, this has always been the case. Now it’s about supposed equality, before it was about maintaining universities as gentlemen’s clubs for Our Crowd, and keeping out the riffraff. And it shall ever be thus.

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  77. Wait a minute what about the Black-chick high school graduates that did the math that made space travel possible? It can’t be race then. Without Blacks, no men on the moon, or even in orbit.

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  78. Forbes says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Arc, Andrew Cuomo, NYS governor, has started to ramp up a run for the 2020 presidential bid. His face is on TV daily in PSAs that praise all things NY. His latest program is to offer FREE tuition to all NYS students at SUNY colleges and universities. This way the poor and underserved minorities won't be saddled with any college loan debts. There are however, some problems with his proposal, such as what happens to Community College enrollment when students don't need to attend for two years to save money, what happens to private colleges, especially Catholic ones, when tuition is free at the SUNY schools and lastly, who pays for this? Oh, wait, I see some distribution of taxpayer money in NY's future. I also predict that SAT and ACT scores will tank and almost anyone will be admitted to the SUNY system.

    Cuomo’s plan is middle class welfare. Students from low income (IDK the threshold) families already get a tuition subsidy–Cuomo is raising the threshold. Low income families still struggle to find money for living expenses–something middle class families find less burdensome.

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  79. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer
    Reading your original comment more carefully, I can see your problem is mainly with the apparent discrepancy toward the middle of the distribution, where the mean for Asians (which is 602) is not within the bin which is highest in the distribution, namely that between 650 and 700.

    But here too I think the ultimate explanation is due to the ceiling effect, because that distorts the "real" mean one would expect to see if the normal curve weren't cut off by the ceiling. Those higher numbers in a "real" curve, which wouldn't be truncated, don't turn up, and are replaced by the lower ceiling number. In the "real" curve, the mean would likely be between 650 and 700. The ceiling presumably pulls down the mean to 602.

    I agree, but this still puts the “true” Asian mean at 650 or so, again 1.5 SDs ahead of whites, in Ashkenazi Jewish territory (or better). And Asian is a big basket that includes some lower functioning groups such as Filipinos, Hmong, etc. so for Han, Koreans, etc. the number might be even higher.

    That the NY admission by test high schools are now 75% Asian may give you a hint of things to come and a clue at how much discrimination is being practiced at places like Harvard to keep that from happening. This mirrors what happened during the great Jewish migration wave. Even the pretext that is used to exclude them, “holistic” admission, is the same. In places that don’t have racial concerns (e.g. Japan) there is no such thing as holistic admissions. They just rank order the test takers and fill their class from the top down – this saves them a whole lot of time and money spent reading college applications and the end results are better.

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    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Enough time and effort has been spent to determine what makes a really topnotch college candidate. It can't be just one test score. How many 1550-16oo SAT score applications does Stanford get? Probably many thousands, and yet they have to have a way to distinguish amongst all those perfect or near-perfect scores. HS grades? Working? An athlete? Hard classes? volunteer work? a great family? There must be some sort of "holistic" method employed to find the best students.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    the “true” Asian mean at 650 or so, again 1.5 SDs ahead of whites

     

    What is included in that "white" category? Arabs? Slavs? Irish?
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  80. syonredux says:

    Disappointingly, the black-white achievement gap in SAT math scores has remained virtually unchanged over the last fifteen years.

    Funny, isn’t it, how no one seems to care about the Black-Asian gap…..

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  81. syonredux says:

    those scoring between a 750 and 800—60 percent are Asian and 33 percent are white, compared to 5 percent Latino and 2 percent black. Meanwhile, among those scoring between 300 and 350, 37 percent are Latino, 35 percent are black, 21 percent are white, and 6 percent are Asian. …

    As for what that will mean for the USA in the future…….

    The share of the population that is Hispanic has been steadily increasing over the past half century. In 2014, Hispanics made up 17.3% of the total U.S. population, up from 3.5% in 1960. According to the latest projections from the U.S. Census Bureau (2014), the Hispanic share of the U.S. population is expected to reach 28.6% by 2060.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/04/19/statistical-portrait-of-hispanics-in-the-united-states-key-charts/

    Well, let’s just say that the future looks pretty bleak……Unless Ron Unz is right, and Super-Flynn will fly to the rescue…..

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  82. @Jack D
    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early '20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in "white shoe" law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today's whites will look back fondly on the "good old days" when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It's amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy's 600 beats Lee Ro's 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don't really "count" in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don’t really “count” in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    I believe the lefty Jewish explanation is Tikkun Olam (i.e. Jewish altruism/noblesse oblige with respect to those of lesser ability). Problem is I don’t think Asians have a similar concept, at least not in their native environment. From what I can see, the Asian thing is more “what’s the point of being a big shot if you can’t step on the people below”?

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  83. @Desiderius

    This country is “overer” than over.
     
    Colleges are not this country.

    England survived without it's monasteries, we can survive without colleges.

    “England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.”

    The monasteries were more useful than most non-STEM courses. But post-abolition there was armed opposition (Pilgrimage of Grace, Rising Of The North) which was crushed mercilessly (is Trump a Henry VIII? Three wives short at present).

    The Brookings report that gets me is this – that real male median wages in 2014 were (and probably still are now) lower than they were in 1973.

    https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-typical-male-u-s-worker-earned-less-in-2014-than-in-1973/

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  84. @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    If they submit to “distributive justice”, American universities as centers of higher education are obsolete. Some other institution will organically take their place, just as universities once replaced the church. The major conflict in this transference will be in who (whom? – never get that right) the job market will favor. For one thing, expect even more vehement resistance to cognitive testing, even as the science over it becomes more persuasive.

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  85. heh says:
    @Jack D
    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early '20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in "white shoe" law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today's whites will look back fondly on the "good old days" when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It's amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy's 600 beats Lee Ro's 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don't really "count" in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    Unz’s magisterial 2012 article on higher education discrimination shows quite clearly that Jewish student performance has dropped significantly in the last 25 years or more. It also shows that once you adjust for the overrepresentation of Jews in Ivy league schools, the most discriminated demographic are WASPs, not Asians. IIRC, Jews should be around 5-7% of Ivy League enrollment according to Unz’s article yet are close to 25% in many universities like Harvard.

    In fact, the anti-white discrimination conceals an even bigger one. That pertains to rural, red state whites. Unz showed that people with pro-military and other conservative associations were even more discriminated against than WASPs in general.

    I find it curious that you completely omit that. Instead you only focus on Jews from the 1920s, or Asians today. Nothing on whites.

    I also find it interesting that you completely avoid talking about HA’s exposé of your comment in 2015, where he acidly points out that condescension goes both ways. Yet you seem to be *very* keen on protecting Jews, avoiding talking about discrimination against WASPs in higher ed and go out of your way to shield Jews from bigotry accusations.

    This is especially notable because a lot of Ivy league universities have had Jewish deans in the last 20-30 years when this divergence really started to explode, and many still do, yet this ongoing discrimination against whites is not something they have felt is needed to talk about or act on about. Yet we endlessly hear from Jewish writers (and curiously, yourself) about the 1920s and 1930s. I’m sure you’ll find a way to excuse this bigotry as well, just as you have consistently sought to downplay or ignore anti-white discrimination and shield Jews from their own bigotry.

    Or maybe, ongoing with your ongoing pattern, you’ll just try to sweep it under the carpet and don’t talk about it.

    You’re not very good at hiding your loyalties.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    There are a lot of problems with Ron's study. His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers. Then there is the whole "who is a Jew?" question. I think that what is happening is that elite American society is becoming highly interbred between Jews and WASPs. You have both Trump and Clinton with Jewish in-laws. Ultimately, just about everyone in the elite breeding pool of folks who grow up in the coastal urban elite fishbowls and attend Ivy schools is going to be "a little bit Jewish", so if you define Jewish loosely enough the number might even go higher than 25%. There are a number of regulars here who strongly identify as WASP but admit to at least 1 Jewish grandparent.

    I don't think there is discrimination AGAINST Wasps per se in higher ed (other than as losers in the zero sum game of AA in FAVOR of NAMS). What there is, is discrimination against deplorables. If you are a WASP with the right credentials, you are as welcome as ever. However, if you are some sort of horrible deplorable from Bumblefud, Alabama who lists hunting, Right to Life and leadership of the Fascist Club as his school activities, then fuggedaboutit.

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  86. syonredux says:
    @Desiderius

    This country is “overer” than over.
     
    Colleges are not this country.

    England survived without it's monasteries, we can survive without colleges.

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.

    I would be quite loath to get rid of places like CALTECH and MIT…..

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  87. matt says:

    It’s worth noting that SAT trends don’t necessarily follow IQ trends, even though the two are highly correlated. Flynn (1984) (pp. 36-39) observed that while SAT scores among white Americans fell sharply between 1964 and 1981, IQ scores among this group simultaneously rose dramatically. That is to say, although IQ and SAT scores were correlated around r = 0.8 among whites in 1964, and around r = 0.8 among whites in 1981, the generational IQ gap is in favor of the 1981-whites, and the SAT gap was in the opposite direction, in favor of the 1964-whites. Thus, the fact that there is an SAT gap, in a certain direction, between two groups doesn’t tell us anything about whether there is an IQ gap between the groups, or, if there is, in what direction it points, or how large it is. This is so even if IQ and SAT scores are highly correlated (even at r = 1.0) in both groups.

    Flynn found this result “inexplicable”, but Rodgers (1999) demonstrated that there is no inconsistency in two variables being highly correlated at any given time while their means change in opposite directions over time, since means and correlations are statistically independent. Rodgers gives a handy graph (Fig. 1) on p. 343 showing how this could be so even if r = 1.0 at each time.

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    • Replies: @anon
    if i understand that rightly - which i may not - makes me wonder if the relaxation in discipline let slip white laziness (aka more recently barbarian ness)
    , @MarkinLA
    Well, when you didn't want your ass shot off in Vietnam you made damn sure you got good SAT scores. Due to all the campus building during the 60s and 70s there was more than enough room for just about any decent student at even the flagship campuses of the state universities - so why prepare for the SAT. Just show up and take it, it really won't matter unless you want to get into Harvard anyway.

    The Asian grinders and flood of foreign students have made everybody study way too hard to get into college.
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  88. RonaldB says:
    @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    Let’s take it from the point of view of the individual.

    It’s a pretty-well-known effect that the competition for minorities causes colleges to ratchet down their admission standards for blacks. Blacks who are suitable for a branch state college are recruited to the flagship university, blacks suitable for the flagship are invited to Cal Tech and the University of Massachusetts, and those adapted to U of M are grabbed by Yale and Harvard.

    I know what it’s like to be at the bottom of the class. Besides the sinking feeling, you see the material pass so quickly you don’t have a clue what it is. And the tragedy is that at a slower pace, it’s readily comprehensible.

    The black students who are victims of this ratcheting effect either drop out, take a useless degree like Black Studies, or are passed through at the behest of embattled administrators. The result is, you have fewer qualified black engineers, accountants, managers, nurses and other productive professionals than you would have in an environment not sullied by racial promotions. Those black professionals who make it through are thoroughly dependent on affirmative action, and know it.

    My suspicion is that with automation, the future is going to belong to people who have a definite skill related to service, plumbing, carpentry, office manager, medical technician, who do it well, and who are personable and reliable. The racial divides will be far less, if the SJWs don’t get involved.

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    • Replies: @Ed
    Cal Tech is a private school and doesn't practice Affirmative Action. Thus the black population hovers around 1% annually.
    , @ScarletNumber
    This may be the first time I have seen CalTech and UMass in the same sentence.
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  89. @SPMoore8
    I was thinking about that last night because I was a bit perturbed with the racial distribution change at Berkeley, which was not the case when I was there, but I haven't lived in the Bay Area for decades, so what did I know. Meanwhile, my family which still lives there sent none of their kids to Berkeley, although they went elsewhere in the state university system, and I think the imbalance may well explain that. I mean, people don't always talk about why they do things.

    Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that's probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new "Mandarin Class."

    I think the thing with Asians as of right now is that while their over-representation in elite colleges is a fact of life (and, I should emphasize, well-earned and possibly also even lower than it should be, just going by grades and scores) their representation in our various economic, political and cultural elites is still at about the level (or even below) their percentage of the population. However, that is likely to change in coming decades.

    I was at Berkeley from 1967-1971. I have been a “racial realist” since I was maybe 8 years old, so I did a lot of noticing while I was there. Asians were around in very small numbers; they never bothered me in the slightest; I even knew and liked some, but then again these were Japanese, i.e. honorary Aryans. Blacks? Perhaps a few on the athletic side of life, but everybody knew what that meant.
    The Jews were everywhere in math, science and fake (positivist) philosophy. Some were admirable; indeed, I knew none who were not. There was only one in the history department, but he had converted to Congregationalism and probably regretted his black wavy locks. He lectured very entertainingly on modern European history, and I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
    There was a secret Jew in my fraternity as well; it was amusing to bait him occasionally because he never failed to rise. But he was of a conservative temper, and I liked him too.
    I’ve never looked up to the Jews though, and laugh if someone (like Jack D) preens about an imagined superiority. Or, if you like, a testable superiority. Genius is not like that, and a race which has produced a Bach, a Newton and a Leibnitz, not to mention an Aristotle, has no reason at all to look up enviously at the race which gave us Mahler, Freud, and Marx.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    I overlapped somewhat with you, but since I lived only a long walk from campus I spent a lot of time there (except of course for my time in service). I remember running into some Asians working hard in the library, but that was about it. Blacks were over-represented among the street people relative to population, but then we had Black Panthers in my neighborhood so I didn't even notice.

    The thing is, as I'm sure you noticed as well, ethnic Jewishness in the Bay Area was very low key; I didn't even realize that many of my friends were Jewish or as if that really even meant anything until I moved to the East Coast (where ethnic self-identification was still very strong 35-40 years ago.)

    I have known a lot of ethnic Americans, and if you have a long history in this country it sort of causes you to roll your eyes when someone of, say, Jewish, Italian, Irish or Armenian ancestry starts talking about how they saved civilization, etc. On the other hand, it's small change compared to what you will get if you start interacting with nationalist Europeans. So I got used to it and generally avoid it. I relate to my ethnicity the way I think most Americans do; I never run out of teams to root for in the Olympics.

    I note that the various syndromes gentiles have of relating to Jews, i.e., that you must love them because they are suspiciously wonderful, or that you should never cross "them", or that they are intrinsically better than you, are usually common to gentiles of lesser intelligence, as is the flip side, an intense hatred of Jews. On the other hand, the more intelligent you are the more all of it appears slightly silly.
    , @unamd
    okkk.
    , @Desiderius

    I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
     
    The canary in the coal mine. I've noticed a lot of that sort of thing in my various brushes with the Academy.
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  90. heh says:
    @Jack D
    As I said before, if you don't like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords (I for one welcome them!*). Perhaps the way Americans got treated in Japanese POW camps will give you a hint of things to come.

    *For the slow witted this is a joke and a Simpson's reference, just like Gorsuch was not REALLY the head of the Fascist Club in his high school. In fact, he came in 3rd in the balloting for Fascist club leader. No, no that's not it - there was NO fascist club in his high school.

    Asians are far less hostile to whites. If they weren’t, we would have noticed by now. I thought you were Jewish, at least your constant defence of Jewish hostility, your refusal to talk about Jewish anti-white bigotry(including in higher education), could be understood in that context. But it appears it is much worse. You’re a goywhore. What a decrepit, pathetic creature you are.

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  91. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The article goes on to speculate that if the math score range was wider, we would have seen a different distribution, more elongated. It mentions the LSAT as an example, which has a wider range. Well, the graph in the story from the LSAT is here:

    https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_4.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

    Yet it seems to me to be far more compressed between Asians and Whites. Especially at the far end of the performance spectrum.

    Another interesting thing to think about: remember the 2015 PISA scores. White and Asian scores were quite close grouped together. Didn’t the SAT become far less of an IQ test due to recent “reforms”? Might explain the exploding gap, since more IQ-bound tests like PISA show relatively little divergence.

    So this does seem to be specific to SAT and possibly the ACT. You don’t see it in LSAT or in PISA.

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  92. SPMoore8 says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    I was at Berkeley from 1967-1971. I have been a "racial realist" since I was maybe 8 years old, so I did a lot of noticing while I was there. Asians were around in very small numbers; they never bothered me in the slightest; I even knew and liked some, but then again these were Japanese, i.e. honorary Aryans. Blacks? Perhaps a few on the athletic side of life, but everybody knew what that meant.
    The Jews were everywhere in math, science and fake (positivist) philosophy. Some were admirable; indeed, I knew none who were not. There was only one in the history department, but he had converted to Congregationalism and probably regretted his black wavy locks. He lectured very entertainingly on modern European history, and I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
    There was a secret Jew in my fraternity as well; it was amusing to bait him occasionally because he never failed to rise. But he was of a conservative temper, and I liked him too.
    I've never looked up to the Jews though, and laugh if someone (like Jack D) preens about an imagined superiority. Or, if you like, a testable superiority. Genius is not like that, and a race which has produced a Bach, a Newton and a Leibnitz, not to mention an Aristotle, has no reason at all to look up enviously at the race which gave us Mahler, Freud, and Marx.

    I overlapped somewhat with you, but since I lived only a long walk from campus I spent a lot of time there (except of course for my time in service). I remember running into some Asians working hard in the library, but that was about it. Blacks were over-represented among the street people relative to population, but then we had Black Panthers in my neighborhood so I didn’t even notice.

    The thing is, as I’m sure you noticed as well, ethnic Jewishness in the Bay Area was very low key; I didn’t even realize that many of my friends were Jewish or as if that really even meant anything until I moved to the East Coast (where ethnic self-identification was still very strong 35-40 years ago.)

    I have known a lot of ethnic Americans, and if you have a long history in this country it sort of causes you to roll your eyes when someone of, say, Jewish, Italian, Irish or Armenian ancestry starts talking about how they saved civilization, etc. On the other hand, it’s small change compared to what you will get if you start interacting with nationalist Europeans. So I got used to it and generally avoid it. I relate to my ethnicity the way I think most Americans do; I never run out of teams to root for in the Olympics.

    I note that the various syndromes gentiles have of relating to Jews, i.e., that you must love them because they are suspiciously wonderful, or that you should never cross “them”, or that they are intrinsically better than you, are usually common to gentiles of lesser intelligence, as is the flip side, an intense hatred of Jews. On the other hand, the more intelligent you are the more all of it appears slightly silly.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The thing to remember about Jews is that even if they are on average smarter, there aren't that many of them, so even if they end up being vastly overrepresented in any given field of endeavor, they still are only going to be maybe 20 or 25% of the total. So brilliant non-Jews are going to outnumber them 3 or 4 to 1 regardless of real or imagined superiority.

    Asians, OTOH, with 15% of the SAT takers already and growing, are going to be a whole different matter because they have BOTH large #s AND an IQ advantage. They already outnumber whites 2 to 1 at the right end of the SAT distribution.
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  93. Mokiki says:

    The bell curve deniers will never give up.

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  94. OhSure says:
    @Jack D
    the resentment seems to go both ways

    Thank goodness this is only true in the case of Jew-peasant interactions. We know that in America, found on principles of Christian charity, white resentment of blacks is completely non-existent (or if it exists, it is amply justified by black dysfunctionality, whereas Jewish resentment is always baseless - the pure hearted peasants never did anything to deserve such contempt).

    Again, you completely omit Jewish bigotry and racism. As if it’s a natural right to have your tribe at 25% in Harvard even as SAT scores indicate it should be closer to 5-7%. Read the 2012 Unz article on higher ed again.

    The shares are only being kept up because of ethnocentrism and whites and Asians pay the price.

    Why are you so desperate to shield them? Instead you talk down on Asians. Asians didn’t institute this system, Jews have. Yet to you they are perpetual victims.

    It’s really amazing how much of a slave you are to Jewish interests, how much you deny the racism which keeps whites and Asians out. You’re either a Jewish troll or a goywhore.

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    • Replies: @biz
    As has been discussed before, that 25% number is probably not correct as it was based on unverifiable metrics such as Hillel estimates, while the 5-7% number is almost certainly not correct, because the technique of surname analysis failed to accurately reproduce the known proportion of Jews in some subsample of high SAT scores. Here are the gory details: https://sites.google.com/site/nuritbaytch/
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  95. @Jack D
    Although the Jews quickly rose in educational achievement very soon after the great wave migration (1/3 of the Harvard class in the early '20s before the quotas kicked in) , there was a lag of several decade before these men achieved positions of prominence in WASP institutions. Of course there was more discrimination in the pre-WWII period (no Jews allowed in "white shoe" law firms, etc.) but I think you will see the cohort of Asians who are dominating the high end of the SATs now move to positions of corresponding prominence in the decades to come. I only wonder whether today's whites will look back fondly on the "good old days" when the Jews ran America instead of the Asians.

    Maybe a portion of the Asian SAT dominance 400% over-representation at the high end) is due to Asian willingness to intensively study for tests using drill and kill methods (as if that is a crime) or maybe even a little cheating, but not all of it.

    It's amazing that the Asians have kept relatively quiet given the level of discrimination against them in higher ed. At Harvard there is a 450 point gap (on the 2400 scale) between Asians and blacks. That is some serious discrimination when Leroy's 600 beats Lee Ro's 750.

    One would think that that kind of discrimination would repel Asians from the Coalition of the Fringes with its emphasis on Affirmative Action for NAMS (even the word NAM itself shows that Asian don't really "count" in the Coalition). But then people have been waiting for decades for Jews to leave the Coalition. Having Jesse Jackson call them Hymies made no impression.

    Keeping quiet is a strong part of our culture. That kind of discrimination did indeed repel me from the coalition of the fringes, but it doesn’t seem to have impacted other members of my race, unfortunately.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think Asians should demand corresponding boosts in other areas. For example, we should spot them 1.5 seconds on the 100 meter dash, 20 minutes on the marathon, several inches on the high jump, etc. In the interest of distributive justice of Olympic medals and endorsement $.
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  96. I understand that “white supremacy” is an unacceptable ideology. It feels rude and wrong, and has some regrettable history.

    Then how about “white inferiocy”? It’s an ideology that states that whites are inferior to certain racial groups. White inferiocists defend whites against inevitable discrimination and disenfranchisement. Given obvious and persistent inequality in intellectual capacities, white inferiocists argue for compensatory affirmative action favoring whites in the interest of furthering social justice. Is that ok?

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  97. Ed says:

    The Brookings estimate of 2,200 blacks scoring above 700 in SAT Math seems inflated. When the Journal of Black Hiher education looked at the situation ten years ago they only found that only 1,132 blacks, representing 1.1% of the >700 total.

    http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Brookings authors are aware of the older study:

    "(These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)"

    I don't know what they mean by "conservative assumptions". As with the missing 200-300 score range, I think they want to make things for blacks look bad but not as atrocious as they really are.

    The double irony is that I am fairly certain that a large % of the few blacks who are at the top end of the range are not American slave descended blacks like Michelle but are mostly hapas like Obama, often raised by white mothers, or else Caribbean blacks, African blacks, etc. American slave descended blacks with math SAT's over 750 are as rare as hen's teeth or Asian/Jewish NFL cornerbacks.

    , @Triumph104
    They still represent 1%. According to College Board, 219,018 blacks took the SAT in 2015 and 1% scored over 700 in math. Brookings is right.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf
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  98. Jack D says:
    @SPMoore8
    I overlapped somewhat with you, but since I lived only a long walk from campus I spent a lot of time there (except of course for my time in service). I remember running into some Asians working hard in the library, but that was about it. Blacks were over-represented among the street people relative to population, but then we had Black Panthers in my neighborhood so I didn't even notice.

    The thing is, as I'm sure you noticed as well, ethnic Jewishness in the Bay Area was very low key; I didn't even realize that many of my friends were Jewish or as if that really even meant anything until I moved to the East Coast (where ethnic self-identification was still very strong 35-40 years ago.)

    I have known a lot of ethnic Americans, and if you have a long history in this country it sort of causes you to roll your eyes when someone of, say, Jewish, Italian, Irish or Armenian ancestry starts talking about how they saved civilization, etc. On the other hand, it's small change compared to what you will get if you start interacting with nationalist Europeans. So I got used to it and generally avoid it. I relate to my ethnicity the way I think most Americans do; I never run out of teams to root for in the Olympics.

    I note that the various syndromes gentiles have of relating to Jews, i.e., that you must love them because they are suspiciously wonderful, or that you should never cross "them", or that they are intrinsically better than you, are usually common to gentiles of lesser intelligence, as is the flip side, an intense hatred of Jews. On the other hand, the more intelligent you are the more all of it appears slightly silly.

    The thing to remember about Jews is that even if they are on average smarter, there aren’t that many of them, so even if they end up being vastly overrepresented in any given field of endeavor, they still are only going to be maybe 20 or 25% of the total. So brilliant non-Jews are going to outnumber them 3 or 4 to 1 regardless of real or imagined superiority.

    Asians, OTOH, with 15% of the SAT takers already and growing, are going to be a whole different matter because they have BOTH large #s AND an IQ advantage. They already outnumber whites 2 to 1 at the right end of the SAT distribution.

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    • Replies: @Alfa158
    The way the bell curve works, you have to go way out to the extreme ends before a group's higher average ability overcomes it's smaller population.
    I ran some numbers using census data and common assumptions about racial average IQ and standard deviation. It is just an exercise since the common assumptions may be off base.

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Common Assumption
    Average IQ:
    Whites: 100
    Blacks: 85
    East Asians: 108
    Jews: 115
    Hispanic: 90
    Standard deviation for all: 15

    At the exceptional genius end of IQ, 160 and higher, you would expect the following total number of individuals for each group;
    Whites: 7,500
    Blacks: 11
    East Asians: 3,800
    Jews: 7,121
    Hispanics: 38

    This does at least VERY roughly seem to correlate to the number of each group founding tech giants, winning Nobel Prizes in STEM and so forth (Asians so far seem to be underperforming).
    Again mileage may vary and I'm skeptical about the precise accuracy of the received wisdom..
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  99. Jack D says:
    @Ed
    The Brookings estimate of 2,200 blacks scoring above 700 in SAT Math seems inflated. When the Journal of Black Hiher education looked at the situation ten years ago they only found that only 1,132 blacks, representing 1.1% of the >700 total.

    http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

    The Brookings authors are aware of the older study:

    “(These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)”

    I don’t know what they mean by “conservative assumptions”. As with the missing 200-300 score range, I think they want to make things for blacks look bad but not as atrocious as they really are.

    The double irony is that I am fairly certain that a large % of the few blacks who are at the top end of the range are not American slave descended blacks like Michelle but are mostly hapas like Obama, often raised by white mothers, or else Caribbean blacks, African blacks, etc. American slave descended blacks with math SAT’s over 750 are as rare as hen’s teeth or Asian/Jewish NFL cornerbacks.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    If you read the entire passage that mentions the performance of blacks above 750 on the math SAT, it is a pure exercise in weasel word BS:

    The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper
    in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)
     
    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be "consistent" with an "estimate" of 244 black students?

    To begin with, the figure 244 is not an "estimate" in that original paper: it is the actual number of blacks who scored at 750 or above on the 2005 math SAT. It may constitute only a reasonable estimate for performance in other years of the same era, but it is a hard fact about 2005 performance.

    So how do they get from 244 to 1000? By "conservative assumptions", which, they say, maximizes the number of blacks. Of course, ordinarily, "conservative assumptions" are a good thing, meant to keep one from leaping to crazy conclusions far out of the range of the probable. But here they are being used to opposite effect.

    And of course they use the CYA qualifier "at most 1000" so that they are not, technically, lying through their teeth about the whole thing. "at most 1000" is of course consistent with the real figure being 244 -- or 0, for that matter.

    Who, of any kind of rational bent, can read this sort of mealy-mouthed, dishonest, manipulative garbage without wanting to puke?

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  100. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @matt
    It's worth noting that SAT trends don't necessarily follow IQ trends, even though the two are highly correlated. Flynn (1984) (pp. 36-39) observed that while SAT scores among white Americans fell sharply between 1964 and 1981, IQ scores among this group simultaneously rose dramatically. That is to say, although IQ and SAT scores were correlated around r = 0.8 among whites in 1964, and around r = 0.8 among whites in 1981, the generational IQ gap is in favor of the 1981-whites, and the SAT gap was in the opposite direction, in favor of the 1964-whites. Thus, the fact that there is an SAT gap, in a certain direction, between two groups doesn't tell us anything about whether there is an IQ gap between the groups, or, if there is, in what direction it points, or how large it is. This is so even if IQ and SAT scores are highly correlated (even at r = 1.0) in both groups.

    Flynn found this result "inexplicable", but Rodgers (1999) demonstrated that there is no inconsistency in two variables being highly correlated at any given time while their means change in opposite directions over time, since means and correlations are statistically independent. Rodgers gives a handy graph (Fig. 1) on p. 343 showing how this could be so even if r = 1.0 at each time.

    if i understand that rightly – which i may not – makes me wonder if the relaxation in discipline let slip white laziness (aka more recently barbarian ness)

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  101. Jack D says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    Keeping quiet is a strong part of our culture. That kind of discrimination did indeed repel me from the coalition of the fringes, but it doesn't seem to have impacted other members of my race, unfortunately.

    I think Asians should demand corresponding boosts in other areas. For example, we should spot them 1.5 seconds on the 100 meter dash, 20 minutes on the marathon, several inches on the high jump, etc. In the interest of distributive justice of Olympic medals and endorsement $.

    Read More
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  102. Broski says:

    Among the best evidence of HBD as far as intelligence is a graph of the “achievement gap” showing the period from the mid-60s to the present. Between ’65 and ’75 or so there was a meaningful narrowing of the gap. Then, after that, a total plateau.

    What does this mean? That the environmental part of the gap, at least that on which society has any influence, has been closed. What remains is the hereditary gap.

    If I were a visual image producer I would superimpose that graph upon a graph of spending to close the gap (all the Great Society/War on Poverty programs contributing to the “Cadillac driving welfare queens,” Section 8, No Child Left Behind etc.). What we would see is that vast sums of treasure have had no effect after the first 10 years.

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  103. Daniel H says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Arc, Andrew Cuomo, NYS governor, has started to ramp up a run for the 2020 presidential bid. His face is on TV daily in PSAs that praise all things NY. His latest program is to offer FREE tuition to all NYS students at SUNY colleges and universities. This way the poor and underserved minorities won't be saddled with any college loan debts. There are however, some problems with his proposal, such as what happens to Community College enrollment when students don't need to attend for two years to save money, what happens to private colleges, especially Catholic ones, when tuition is free at the SUNY schools and lastly, who pays for this? Oh, wait, I see some distribution of taxpayer money in NY's future. I also predict that SAT and ACT scores will tank and almost anyone will be admitted to the SUNY system.

    Cuomo can propose all he wants, but this ridiculous scheme is going nowhere.

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  104. Jack D says:
    @heh
    Unz's magisterial 2012 article on higher education discrimination shows quite clearly that Jewish student performance has dropped significantly in the last 25 years or more. It also shows that once you adjust for the overrepresentation of Jews in Ivy league schools, the most discriminated demographic are WASPs, not Asians. IIRC, Jews should be around 5-7% of Ivy League enrollment according to Unz's article yet are close to 25% in many universities like Harvard.

    In fact, the anti-white discrimination conceals an even bigger one. That pertains to rural, red state whites. Unz showed that people with pro-military and other conservative associations were even more discriminated against than WASPs in general.

    I find it curious that you completely omit that. Instead you only focus on Jews from the 1920s, or Asians today. Nothing on whites.

    I also find it interesting that you completely avoid talking about HA's exposé of your comment in 2015, where he acidly points out that condescension goes both ways. Yet you seem to be *very* keen on protecting Jews, avoiding talking about discrimination against WASPs in higher ed and go out of your way to shield Jews from bigotry accusations.

    This is especially notable because a lot of Ivy league universities have had Jewish deans in the last 20-30 years when this divergence really started to explode, and many still do, yet this ongoing discrimination against whites is not something they have felt is needed to talk about or act on about. Yet we endlessly hear from Jewish writers (and curiously, yourself) about the 1920s and 1930s. I'm sure you'll find a way to excuse this bigotry as well, just as you have consistently sought to downplay or ignore anti-white discrimination and shield Jews from their own bigotry.

    Or maybe, ongoing with your ongoing pattern, you'll just try to sweep it under the carpet and don't talk about it.

    You're not very good at hiding your loyalties.

    There are a lot of problems with Ron’s study. His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers. Then there is the whole “who is a Jew?” question. I think that what is happening is that elite American society is becoming highly interbred between Jews and WASPs. You have both Trump and Clinton with Jewish in-laws. Ultimately, just about everyone in the elite breeding pool of folks who grow up in the coastal urban elite fishbowls and attend Ivy schools is going to be “a little bit Jewish”, so if you define Jewish loosely enough the number might even go higher than 25%. There are a number of regulars here who strongly identify as WASP but admit to at least 1 Jewish grandparent.

    I don’t think there is discrimination AGAINST Wasps per se in higher ed (other than as losers in the zero sum game of AA in FAVOR of NAMS). What there is, is discrimination against deplorables. If you are a WASP with the right credentials, you are as welcome as ever. However, if you are some sort of horrible deplorable from Bumblefud, Alabama who lists hunting, Right to Life and leadership of the Fascist Club as his school activities, then fuggedaboutit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers.
     
    Yeah. As I pointed out to Ron Unz , at one point, Hillel was claiming that something like 50% of the undergrads at Columbia were Jewish.....which would mean that nearly all of the White undergrads would have to be Jewish.Ron actually tried to salvage the figure by saying that maybe large numbers of the Asians were half-Jewish.......Their current estimate, 20%, is far more reasonable.

    Then there is the whole “who is a Jew?” question.
     
    Yeah. I had a chat once with a Hillel guy and asked him if Hillel counted me (half-Ashkenazi, half-WASP) as Jewish when I was at Berkeley.His response: Absolutely. Indeed, I got the impression that they counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.
    , @Bill

    If you are a WASP with the right credentials, you are as welcome as ever. However, if you are some sort of horrible deplorable from Bumblefud, Alabama who lists hunting, Right to Life and leadership of the Fascist Club as his school activities, then fuggedaboutit.
     
    Somehow, I doubt you would be hesitating to call this sort of facially neutral discrimination discrimination if the Ivies were rejecting anyone lacking a foreskin.
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  105. Alfa158 says:
    @Jack D
    The thing to remember about Jews is that even if they are on average smarter, there aren't that many of them, so even if they end up being vastly overrepresented in any given field of endeavor, they still are only going to be maybe 20 or 25% of the total. So brilliant non-Jews are going to outnumber them 3 or 4 to 1 regardless of real or imagined superiority.

    Asians, OTOH, with 15% of the SAT takers already and growing, are going to be a whole different matter because they have BOTH large #s AND an IQ advantage. They already outnumber whites 2 to 1 at the right end of the SAT distribution.

    The way the bell curve works, you have to go way out to the extreme ends before a group’s higher average ability overcomes it’s smaller population.
    I ran some numbers using census data and common assumptions about racial average IQ and standard deviation. It is just an exercise since the common assumptions may be off base.

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Common Assumption
    Average IQ:
    Whites: 100
    Blacks: 85
    East Asians: 108
    Jews: 115
    Hispanic: 90
    Standard deviation for all: 15

    At the exceptional genius end of IQ, 160 and higher, you would expect the following total number of individuals for each group;
    Whites: 7,500
    Blacks: 11
    East Asians: 3,800
    Jews: 7,121
    Hispanics: 38

    This does at least VERY roughly seem to correlate to the number of each group founding tech giants, winning Nobel Prizes in STEM and so forth (Asians so far seem to be underperforming).
    Again mileage may vary and I’m skeptical about the precise accuracy of the received wisdom..

    Read More
    • Replies: @james wilson
    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels. I wonder if that is true of the east Asian to some degree as well.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    7,500 out of 240 million?
    Why are we mostly just a bunch of crotchety complainers then, instead of running the world?
    Read Terman, and you'll know why.
    , @Jack D
    IIRC, the Jewish (again depending on how you define "Jewish") share of US Nobel Prizes, etc. runs in the 20 to 25% range. Probably because the cutoff for doing Nobel quality work is more like 145 or 150 rather than 160.
    , @Jefferson
    "Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M"

    Do you really believe there are 40 million Hispanics in The U.S who are genetically 100 percent European in ancestry?

    Even if you wanted to (although it would be extremely inaccurate and misleading)
    to classify all Cubans in The U.S as 100 percent European, that still comes nowhere close to 40 million.

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  106. @Anon
    What?!

    They have tirelessly honed it to be intelligence-unrelated and we still get this?

    I guess these test-makers will have to think harder to remove the obvious, inherent bias that still lies in the test.

    BTW and seriously, maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide.


    The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it. The gaps are similar on both, however.
     
    So the ACT designers are bias-loving racists as well: good to hear that!

    the Latino-white achievement gap for the math section of the 2015 SAT was roughly .65 standard deviations; for the 2016 ACT it was .54 standard deviations
     
    Now that Trump is bullying Mexico we needed all but anti-Latino, Mexico-bullying tests like this SAT and ACT.

    Maybe they should give handicaps like they do in bowling. They could also give point for effort. You know they got all that inner city crap to overcome. Kinda like when grandpa used say “I had to walk three miles to school every day.”

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  107. CCZ says:
    @Jack D
    "Distributive justice" - If you have 4 rims and I have no rims, then when I take 2 of your rims, that's not theft, it's just distributive justice.

    And this, distilled, is the report’s enlightening and original explanation of cause, effect, and remedy. I will take those 2 rims now for “equalizing…fairer outcomes.”

    “The evidence for a stubborn race gap on this test does meanwhile provide a snapshot into the extraordinary magnitude of racial inequality in contemporary American society.”

    “Race gaps on the SAT hold up a mirror to racial inequities in society as a whole. Equalizing educational opportunities and human capital acquisition earlier is the only way to ensure fairer outcomes.”

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  108. Are people from India considered Asian?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Are people from India considered Asian?
     
    Officially? Yes. It's idiotic, but that's how they are counted. South Asians should have their own category.
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  109. syonredux says:

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Needs more splitting. Ashkenazi Jews should be separated from non-Ashkenazi. Asians should be sub-divided (Hmong, Koreans, etc).

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  110. HA says:
    @Jack D
    the resentment seems to go both ways

    Thank goodness this is only true in the case of Jew-peasant interactions. We know that in America, found on principles of Christian charity, white resentment of blacks is completely non-existent (or if it exists, it is amply justified by black dysfunctionality, whereas Jewish resentment is always baseless - the pure hearted peasants never did anything to deserve such contempt).

    “>We know that in America, found on principles of Christian charity, white resentment of blacks is completely non-existent”

    Non-existent, you say? Oddly enough, I’ve heard quite a bit about white resentment of blacks from… oh I dunno, just about every single Western media outlet known to mankind.

    You want to tell me that Jewish resentment against the “drunken local peasantry”, to use your phrasing, is met with the same pushback and media attention as white-on-black resentment? If you honestly believe that, then what does that say for your own IQ? — I mean, how would you even know what higher IQ populations think?

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  111. @anonymous
    Slightly off topic but relevant (Flynn effect).

    Some recent work on mechanisms of sleep suggests that sleep exists because (very handwavy) neurons grow and make connections during the day and then at night the neurons that made connections that aren't relevant to the day's events (or to somesuch) physically shrink back and become unconnected. So the brain kind of oscillates between "growing" during the day and "shrinking" during the night. If this wasn't done the brain would be overwhelmed with meaningless connections.

    If quality of sleep is crucial to intelligence, an obvious driver for the Flynn effect (IQ slightly rising over, say, the last century) might be that the quality of childhood sleep increased during the same period (due to factors such as sleeping in separate rooms, larger houses, living in quieter suburbs, and so on). The Flynn effect seems to be currently undergoing a slight reversal. That might be due to kids playing computer games in their rooms, being on the internet, texting, or being on the phone rather than sleeping, that is, the quality of kids sleep is going back down.

    "The Purpose of Sleep? To Forget, Scientists Say", Carl Zimmer, NY Times, FEB. 2, 2017.


    "Sleep deprivation handicaps the brain's ability to form new memories, mouse study shows: Chemical recalibration of brain cells during sleep is crucial for learning, and sleeping pills may sabotage it", ScienceDaily, February 2, 2017, Johns Hopkins Medicine:


    "...a key purpose of sleep is to recalibrate the brain cells responsible for learning and memory so the animals can 'solidify' lessons learned and use them when they awaken..."

     

    "Sleep research high-resolution images show how the brain resets during sleep", ScienceDaily, February 2, 2017, University of Wisconsin-Madison:


    "...Our synapses -- the junctions between nerve cells -- grow strong and large during the stimulation of daytime, then shrink by nearly 20 percent while we sleep, creating room for more growth and learning the next day."

     

    My quality of sleep has been going up due to better technology like better earplugs, better windows, and I finally stopped stupidly sleeping under three blankets in winter and switched to an electric blanket.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Turning off the TV or computer an hour before retiring will help you get to sleep more easily. Getting enough sleep regularly, along with a decent diet and some exercise, will make life much easier.
    , @anonguy
    Why does better windows help?
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  112. donut says:

    Jesus ! You go on and on and on Asians are brilliant and Negros are dimwitted . You are falling behind and approaching irrelevance . No wonder the slopes are gaining ground .

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  113. syonredux says:
    @Jack D
    There are a lot of problems with Ron's study. His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers. Then there is the whole "who is a Jew?" question. I think that what is happening is that elite American society is becoming highly interbred between Jews and WASPs. You have both Trump and Clinton with Jewish in-laws. Ultimately, just about everyone in the elite breeding pool of folks who grow up in the coastal urban elite fishbowls and attend Ivy schools is going to be "a little bit Jewish", so if you define Jewish loosely enough the number might even go higher than 25%. There are a number of regulars here who strongly identify as WASP but admit to at least 1 Jewish grandparent.

    I don't think there is discrimination AGAINST Wasps per se in higher ed (other than as losers in the zero sum game of AA in FAVOR of NAMS). What there is, is discrimination against deplorables. If you are a WASP with the right credentials, you are as welcome as ever. However, if you are some sort of horrible deplorable from Bumblefud, Alabama who lists hunting, Right to Life and leadership of the Fascist Club as his school activities, then fuggedaboutit.

    His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers.

    Yeah. As I pointed out to Ron Unz , at one point, Hillel was claiming that something like 50% of the undergrads at Columbia were Jewish…..which would mean that nearly all of the White undergrads would have to be Jewish.Ron actually tried to salvage the figure by saying that maybe large numbers of the Asians were half-Jewish…….Their current estimate, 20%, is far more reasonable.

    Then there is the whole “who is a Jew?” question.

    Yeah. I had a chat once with a Hillel guy and asked him if Hillel counted me (half-Ashkenazi, half-WASP) as Jewish when I was at Berkeley.His response: Absolutely. Indeed, I got the impression that they counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    "They counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish."
    The extremes meet.

    And you were at Berkeley as well? I wonder how many of us there are here.
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  114. syonredux says:
    @Mr Mack Bolan
    Are people from India considered Asian?

    Are people from India considered Asian?

    Officially? Yes. It’s idiotic, but that’s how they are counted. South Asians should have their own category.

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  115. @Jack D
    I agree, but this still puts the "true" Asian mean at 650 or so, again 1.5 SDs ahead of whites, in Ashkenazi Jewish territory (or better). And Asian is a big basket that includes some lower functioning groups such as Filipinos, Hmong, etc. so for Han, Koreans, etc. the number might be even higher.

    That the NY admission by test high schools are now 75% Asian may give you a hint of things to come and a clue at how much discrimination is being practiced at places like Harvard to keep that from happening. This mirrors what happened during the great Jewish migration wave. Even the pretext that is used to exclude them, "holistic" admission, is the same. In places that don't have racial concerns (e.g. Japan) there is no such thing as holistic admissions. They just rank order the test takers and fill their class from the top down - this saves them a whole lot of time and money spent reading college applications and the end results are better.

    Enough time and effort has been spent to determine what makes a really topnotch college candidate. It can’t be just one test score. How many 1550-16oo SAT score applications does Stanford get? Probably many thousands, and yet they have to have a way to distinguish amongst all those perfect or near-perfect scores. HS grades? Working? An athlete? Hard classes? volunteer work? a great family? There must be some sort of “holistic” method employed to find the best students.

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  116. @Alfa158
    The way the bell curve works, you have to go way out to the extreme ends before a group's higher average ability overcomes it's smaller population.
    I ran some numbers using census data and common assumptions about racial average IQ and standard deviation. It is just an exercise since the common assumptions may be off base.

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Common Assumption
    Average IQ:
    Whites: 100
    Blacks: 85
    East Asians: 108
    Jews: 115
    Hispanic: 90
    Standard deviation for all: 15

    At the exceptional genius end of IQ, 160 and higher, you would expect the following total number of individuals for each group;
    Whites: 7,500
    Blacks: 11
    East Asians: 3,800
    Jews: 7,121
    Hispanics: 38

    This does at least VERY roughly seem to correlate to the number of each group founding tech giants, winning Nobel Prizes in STEM and so forth (Asians so far seem to be underperforming).
    Again mileage may vary and I'm skeptical about the precise accuracy of the received wisdom..

    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels. I wonder if that is true of the east Asian to some degree as well.

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    • Replies: @artichoke
    I think the Asian IQ spectrum is also narrower than whites, so proportionately less 150+ scores. But you don't need that kind of an IQ to score 750 on the SAT. I'd guess 140 is plenty, with proper studying. And "proper studying" and a little cheating here and there is what Asians are known for.
    , @Broski
    This is a simple function of genetic variation. One X and one Y chromosome allows the expression of eccentricity on both chromosomes, whereas two Xs will round out the eccentricities of both.
    , @gregor
    It is tempting to reuse that explanation here and I've seen it suggested many times, but I've never seen it confirmed empirically. Asian SAT scores actually show elevated sd in the upper 120s per section compared to just over 100 for whites (though that might be because they lump in S Asians and Pacific Islanders which probably makes it bimodal).

    They do not seem to perform to the level implied by their SAT scores. Here is the list of Fields Medal winners. There are not a lot of E Asians.

    http://stats.areppim.com/listes/list_fieldsxmedal.htm

    I wonder if the difference might even be in the higher moments. Could also be other attributes.
    , @matt

    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels.
     
    Not in Romania it isn't. From a study published last year based on four standardization samples:

    The authors investigate sex differences in mean scores and variance, in general and specific intelligence, based on raw data from the standardization samples of six cognitive ability measures adapted and normed in Romania. The results show that fewer than 10% of the possible comparisons exhibit sex differences; these differences have a random pattern and are not replicated across measures. The authors conclude that these Romanian data show no support for the sex differences in either mean values or variance of scores which were reported by other studies.
     
    Since the studies that found sex differences in variance were based on less representative samples than this one, the authors conjecture that the previous findings were flukes.
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  117. @Jack D
    The Brookings authors are aware of the older study:

    "(These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)"

    I don't know what they mean by "conservative assumptions". As with the missing 200-300 score range, I think they want to make things for blacks look bad but not as atrocious as they really are.

    The double irony is that I am fairly certain that a large % of the few blacks who are at the top end of the range are not American slave descended blacks like Michelle but are mostly hapas like Obama, often raised by white mothers, or else Caribbean blacks, African blacks, etc. American slave descended blacks with math SAT's over 750 are as rare as hen's teeth or Asian/Jewish NFL cornerbacks.

    If you read the entire passage that mentions the performance of blacks above 750 on the math SAT, it is a pure exercise in weasel word BS:

    The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper
    in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)

    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be “consistent” with an “estimate” of 244 black students?

    To begin with, the figure 244 is not an “estimate” in that original paper: it is the actual number of blacks who scored at 750 or above on the 2005 math SAT. It may constitute only a reasonable estimate for performance in other years of the same era, but it is a hard fact about 2005 performance.

    So how do they get from 244 to 1000? By “conservative assumptions”, which, they say, maximizes the number of blacks. Of course, ordinarily, “conservative assumptions” are a good thing, meant to keep one from leaping to crazy conclusions far out of the range of the probable. But here they are being used to opposite effect.

    And of course they use the CYA qualifier “at most 1000″ so that they are not, technically, lying through their teeth about the whole thing. “at most 1000″ is of course consistent with the real figure being 244 — or 0, for that matter.

    Who, of any kind of rational bent, can read this sort of mealy-mouthed, dishonest, manipulative garbage without wanting to puke?

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    • Replies: @SPMoore8
    "Conservative" in this kind of case involves keeping the indications low, but in this case "conservative" means: maintaining continuity with the previous indications. And, yes, it is depressing to say so, but it is an exercise in politically correct euphemism. It's "depressing" because a lot of us who grew up in the '60's felt that it would get better once racial prejudice was conquered, but it hasn't gotten better, and now it's starting to dawn on people that it won't get any better. On the other hand, we shouldn't fetishize high intelligence.

    The real problem at this point is that the chronically low scores are blamed on a species of "racism" that really doesn't exist anymore, that's why the left has to resort to, in effect, spectral evidence in order to prove that it still exists and retards AA progress. Hand in hand with that, as one may note, are direct demands for wealth redistribution. It won't happen; given the actual demographic forces in play -- the peasantry in France and Russia did not comprise a mere 13% of the population -- but it may lead to some violence, unfortunately. There's also the possibility of a Latino-AA-Asian alliance, but that won't happen either unless the underclass grows to large extent over the next few decades. Truly, bringing in many more millions to feed into the maw of the Walmart Moloch will help bring that about, but people are only interested in short term profits, apres moi, le race war.

    , @Jack D
    Brookings is a respectable institution, albeit of a somewhat leftist bent, so they are not going to outright lie in a study such as this. However, it's not lying when you say "at most 1,000" rather than "244", or if you "forget" to include the range 200 to 300 on your graph. Their aim is to make the problem seem serious but not dire and at all costs to maintain the current status quo Affirmative Action system. This is based upon the polite fiction that blacks are getting "a little leg up" to remedy past discrimination, bring the joy of diversity to us and maybe redistribute a little justice - just a touch. If the word got out that in fact what was happening is that totally unqualified people are being admitted based on their race while MUCH more qualified Asian applicants were being rejected, that might start to seem a tad unfair or a little too much on the redistributive side to be "just". So you soft pedal it a little.
    , @Triumph104

    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be “consistent” with an “estimate” of 244 black students?
     
    Three ways:

    1. Since 2005, more smart blacks in flyover states are taking the SAT in addition to the ACT.

    Ronald Nelson from Memphis scored 34 out of 36 on the ACT. His 2260 out of 2400 on the SAT made him a National Merit Scholar for the state of Tennessee. Nelson turned down all 8 Ivys for a full scholarship to the University of Alabama.

    Love Osunnuga of South Bend, IN earned perfect scores on both the SAT and ACT. She decided to accept a full scholarship to Notre Dame since she was only 16 and wanted to be close to home.

    2. As Jack D has mentioned, immigration and mixed-race kids are responsible for most of the increase, such as Nigerian Igbo Love Osunnuga above.

    3. The "last year" that Brookings is talking about is 2016. In 2015, College Board reported that 1% of 219,018 blacks scored 700 or above on the math section. Using this data, Brookings' "conservative estimate" is that less than 45% (less than 1000) could have scored 750 or above in 2016.

    However, Brookings is ignoring that the SAT was changed in 2016. It is now far easier to score 700 in math. So I would say that more than 1000 blacks scored 750 on the SAT in 2016. A 700 on the old pre-2016 exam is a 730 on the new SAT. An old 720 in math is now a 750. An 800 is still an 800 in math, so more people can now catch up with the Asians.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/05/11/why-your-new-sat-score-is-not-as-strong-as-you-think-it-is/?utm_term=.03321ec9720e

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  118. @syonredux

    His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers.
     
    Yeah. As I pointed out to Ron Unz , at one point, Hillel was claiming that something like 50% of the undergrads at Columbia were Jewish.....which would mean that nearly all of the White undergrads would have to be Jewish.Ron actually tried to salvage the figure by saying that maybe large numbers of the Asians were half-Jewish.......Their current estimate, 20%, is far more reasonable.

    Then there is the whole “who is a Jew?” question.
     
    Yeah. I had a chat once with a Hillel guy and asked him if Hillel counted me (half-Ashkenazi, half-WASP) as Jewish when I was at Berkeley.His response: Absolutely. Indeed, I got the impression that they counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.

    “They counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.”
    The extremes meet.

    And you were at Berkeley as well? I wonder how many of us there are here.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    “They counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.”
    The extremes meet.

    And you were at Berkeley as well? I wonder how many of us there are here.
     
    Quite a few, I suspect. Living in CA is itself a redpill.....and then add going to UC Berkeley.....
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  119. @Alfa158
    The way the bell curve works, you have to go way out to the extreme ends before a group's higher average ability overcomes it's smaller population.
    I ran some numbers using census data and common assumptions about racial average IQ and standard deviation. It is just an exercise since the common assumptions may be off base.

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Common Assumption
    Average IQ:
    Whites: 100
    Blacks: 85
    East Asians: 108
    Jews: 115
    Hispanic: 90
    Standard deviation for all: 15

    At the exceptional genius end of IQ, 160 and higher, you would expect the following total number of individuals for each group;
    Whites: 7,500
    Blacks: 11
    East Asians: 3,800
    Jews: 7,121
    Hispanics: 38

    This does at least VERY roughly seem to correlate to the number of each group founding tech giants, winning Nobel Prizes in STEM and so forth (Asians so far seem to be underperforming).
    Again mileage may vary and I'm skeptical about the precise accuracy of the received wisdom..

    7,500 out of 240 million?
    Why are we mostly just a bunch of crotchety complainers then, instead of running the world?
    Read Terman, and you’ll know why.

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  120. Jefferson says:
    @Joel W
    Its obviously because math is racist

    “Its obviously because math is racist”

    But according to We Wuz Kangz Blacks invented math. So shouldn’t 90 percent of all NASA employees be Black, just like the percentage of American inventors who are Black according to Google.

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  121. Hubbub says:

    Disappointingly, the black-white achievement gap in SAT math scores has remained virtually unchanged over the last fifteen years.

    Make blacks feel even more inferior by using the Black-Asian gap in SAT math scores. Shouldn’t the superior Asian scores be used for comparison with all groups? Or should we continue to emphasize the BLACK – WHITE disparities?

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  122. SPMoore8 says:
    @candid_observer
    If you read the entire passage that mentions the performance of blacks above 750 on the math SAT, it is a pure exercise in weasel word BS:

    The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper
    in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)
     
    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be "consistent" with an "estimate" of 244 black students?

    To begin with, the figure 244 is not an "estimate" in that original paper: it is the actual number of blacks who scored at 750 or above on the 2005 math SAT. It may constitute only a reasonable estimate for performance in other years of the same era, but it is a hard fact about 2005 performance.

    So how do they get from 244 to 1000? By "conservative assumptions", which, they say, maximizes the number of blacks. Of course, ordinarily, "conservative assumptions" are a good thing, meant to keep one from leaping to crazy conclusions far out of the range of the probable. But here they are being used to opposite effect.

    And of course they use the CYA qualifier "at most 1000" so that they are not, technically, lying through their teeth about the whole thing. "at most 1000" is of course consistent with the real figure being 244 -- or 0, for that matter.

    Who, of any kind of rational bent, can read this sort of mealy-mouthed, dishonest, manipulative garbage without wanting to puke?

    “Conservative” in this kind of case involves keeping the indications low, but in this case “conservative” means: maintaining continuity with the previous indications. And, yes, it is depressing to say so, but it is an exercise in politically correct euphemism. It’s “depressing” because a lot of us who grew up in the ’60′s felt that it would get better once racial prejudice was conquered, but it hasn’t gotten better, and now it’s starting to dawn on people that it won’t get any better. On the other hand, we shouldn’t fetishize high intelligence.

    The real problem at this point is that the chronically low scores are blamed on a species of “racism” that really doesn’t exist anymore, that’s why the left has to resort to, in effect, spectral evidence in order to prove that it still exists and retards AA progress. Hand in hand with that, as one may note, are direct demands for wealth redistribution. It won’t happen; given the actual demographic forces in play — the peasantry in France and Russia did not comprise a mere 13% of the population — but it may lead to some violence, unfortunately. There’s also the possibility of a Latino-AA-Asian alliance, but that won’t happen either unless the underclass grows to large extent over the next few decades. Truly, bringing in many more millions to feed into the maw of the Walmart Moloch will help bring that about, but people are only interested in short term profits, apres moi, le race war.

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  123. Jefferson says:
    @SPMoore8
    I was thinking about that last night because I was a bit perturbed with the racial distribution change at Berkeley, which was not the case when I was there, but I haven't lived in the Bay Area for decades, so what did I know. Meanwhile, my family which still lives there sent none of their kids to Berkeley, although they went elsewhere in the state university system, and I think the imbalance may well explain that. I mean, people don't always talk about why they do things.

    Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that's probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new "Mandarin Class."

    I think the thing with Asians as of right now is that while their over-representation in elite colleges is a fact of life (and, I should emphasize, well-earned and possibly also even lower than it should be, just going by grades and scores) their representation in our various economic, political and cultural elites is still at about the level (or even below) their percentage of the population. However, that is likely to change in coming decades.

    “Personally, I never noticed any imbalance among Jewish and non-Jewish numbers when I was that age, but that’s probably because Jews are basically white so why would I even notice. On the other hand if we end up with some kind of hypothetical elite and they are all Asian in appearance, that would/will be quite noticeable and there likely will be a backlash against the new “Mandarin Class.”

    Has there been a backlash yet over Asian dominance of Silicon Valley? And if that backlash ever occurs will it come from Whites, Hispanics, or African Americans? Or all 3?

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  124. Jack D says:
    @Alfa158
    The way the bell curve works, you have to go way out to the extreme ends before a group's higher average ability overcomes it's smaller population.
    I ran some numbers using census data and common assumptions about racial average IQ and standard deviation. It is just an exercise since the common assumptions may be off base.

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Common Assumption
    Average IQ:
    Whites: 100
    Blacks: 85
    East Asians: 108
    Jews: 115
    Hispanic: 90
    Standard deviation for all: 15

    At the exceptional genius end of IQ, 160 and higher, you would expect the following total number of individuals for each group;
    Whites: 7,500
    Blacks: 11
    East Asians: 3,800
    Jews: 7,121
    Hispanics: 38

    This does at least VERY roughly seem to correlate to the number of each group founding tech giants, winning Nobel Prizes in STEM and so forth (Asians so far seem to be underperforming).
    Again mileage may vary and I'm skeptical about the precise accuracy of the received wisdom..

    IIRC, the Jewish (again depending on how you define “Jewish”) share of US Nobel Prizes, etc. runs in the 20 to 25% range. Probably because the cutoff for doing Nobel quality work is more like 145 or 150 rather than 160.

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  125. unamd says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    I was at Berkeley from 1967-1971. I have been a "racial realist" since I was maybe 8 years old, so I did a lot of noticing while I was there. Asians were around in very small numbers; they never bothered me in the slightest; I even knew and liked some, but then again these were Japanese, i.e. honorary Aryans. Blacks? Perhaps a few on the athletic side of life, but everybody knew what that meant.
    The Jews were everywhere in math, science and fake (positivist) philosophy. Some were admirable; indeed, I knew none who were not. There was only one in the history department, but he had converted to Congregationalism and probably regretted his black wavy locks. He lectured very entertainingly on modern European history, and I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
    There was a secret Jew in my fraternity as well; it was amusing to bait him occasionally because he never failed to rise. But he was of a conservative temper, and I liked him too.
    I've never looked up to the Jews though, and laugh if someone (like Jack D) preens about an imagined superiority. Or, if you like, a testable superiority. Genius is not like that, and a race which has produced a Bach, a Newton and a Leibnitz, not to mention an Aristotle, has no reason at all to look up enviously at the race which gave us Mahler, Freud, and Marx.

    okkk.

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  126. FKA Max says:
    @grey enlightenment2
    We need earlier intervention...don't stop with universal pre-K..we need pre-pre-pre k to close the gap.


    Negative 8 Months and 29 Days

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/negative-8-months-and-29-days/

    Families are the ultimate pre-pre-school. Research in neuroscience and other fields has established that parents and caregivers provide a crucial foundation during the first few years of life. Our public policies, however, make it much harder for families, especially families living in poverty, to lay this foundation.

    In my research, I have cataloged government policies that undermine parent-child relationships during early childhood. …

    I don’t want to rain on the pre-K parade, but we can’t pretend that school preparation begins at age 4. Four is better than 5, but zero is far better than 4.

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  127. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Slightly off topic but relevant (Flynn effect).

    Some recent work on mechanisms of sleep suggests that sleep exists because (very handwavy) neurons grow and make connections during the day and then at night the neurons that made connections that aren't relevant to the day's events (or to somesuch) physically shrink back and become unconnected. So the brain kind of oscillates between "growing" during the day and "shrinking" during the night. If this wasn't done the brain would be overwhelmed with meaningless connections.

    If quality of sleep is crucial to intelligence, an obvious driver for the Flynn effect (IQ slightly rising over, say, the last century) might be that the quality of childhood sleep increased during the same period (due to factors such as sleeping in separate rooms, larger houses, living in quieter suburbs, and so on). The Flynn effect seems to be currently undergoing a slight reversal. That might be due to kids playing computer games in their rooms, being on the internet, texting, or being on the phone rather than sleeping, that is, the quality of kids sleep is going back down.

    "The Purpose of Sleep? To Forget, Scientists Say", Carl Zimmer, NY Times, FEB. 2, 2017.


    "Sleep deprivation handicaps the brain's ability to form new memories, mouse study shows: Chemical recalibration of brain cells during sleep is crucial for learning, and sleeping pills may sabotage it", ScienceDaily, February 2, 2017, Johns Hopkins Medicine:


    "...a key purpose of sleep is to recalibrate the brain cells responsible for learning and memory so the animals can 'solidify' lessons learned and use them when they awaken..."

     

    "Sleep research high-resolution images show how the brain resets during sleep", ScienceDaily, February 2, 2017, University of Wisconsin-Madison:


    "...Our synapses -- the junctions between nerve cells -- grow strong and large during the stimulation of daytime, then shrink by nearly 20 percent while we sleep, creating room for more growth and learning the next day."

     

    also the 3rd world’s consumption of fish has gone up since ww2

    it might be interesting to correlate that to national Flynn effects

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  128. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @TelfoedJohn
    It's a generalisation, but in a democracy high verbal IQ is necessary for political power. Persuasion requires a skilful tongue. East Asians may have higher IQ, but the verbal element is not outstanding. Therefore I don't expect an Asian political class becoming dominant, though Asians will out-earn Whites.

    south Asians have the verbal thing so east Asians in STEM, south Asians in politics, media etc

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  129. syonredux says:
    @Old Palo Altan
    "They counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish."
    The extremes meet.

    And you were at Berkeley as well? I wonder how many of us there are here.

    “They counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.”
    The extremes meet.

    And you were at Berkeley as well? I wonder how many of us there are here.

    Quite a few, I suspect. Living in CA is itself a redpill…..and then add going to UC Berkeley…..

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Quite a few, I suspect. Living in CA is itself a redpill…..and then add going to UC Berkeley…..
     
    This is the dawning of the age of the post-progressive.
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  130. Ed says:
    @RonaldB
    Let's take it from the point of view of the individual.

    It's a pretty-well-known effect that the competition for minorities causes colleges to ratchet down their admission standards for blacks. Blacks who are suitable for a branch state college are recruited to the flagship university, blacks suitable for the flagship are invited to Cal Tech and the University of Massachusetts, and those adapted to U of M are grabbed by Yale and Harvard.

    I know what it's like to be at the bottom of the class. Besides the sinking feeling, you see the material pass so quickly you don't have a clue what it is. And the tragedy is that at a slower pace, it's readily comprehensible.

    The black students who are victims of this ratcheting effect either drop out, take a useless degree like Black Studies, or are passed through at the behest of embattled administrators. The result is, you have fewer qualified black engineers, accountants, managers, nurses and other productive professionals than you would have in an environment not sullied by racial promotions. Those black professionals who make it through are thoroughly dependent on affirmative action, and know it.

    My suspicion is that with automation, the future is going to belong to people who have a definite skill related to service, plumbing, carpentry, office manager, medical technician, who do it well, and who are personable and reliable. The racial divides will be far less, if the SJWs don't get involved.

    Cal Tech is a private school and doesn’t practice Affirmative Action. Thus the black population hovers around 1% annually.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Cal Tech is a private school and doesn’t practice Affirmative Action. Thus the black population hovers around 1% annually."

    Also when there is a lack of Section 8 housing within close proximity a typical average upper middle class American neighborhood (which is different from a lower middle class neighborhood) tend to have low single digit percentage of Blacks, like the zip code where I reside which is only 2 percent Black.
    , @gcochran
    Cal Tech does affirmative action for chicks.
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  131. Jack D says:
    @candid_observer
    If you read the entire passage that mentions the performance of blacks above 750 on the math SAT, it is a pure exercise in weasel word BS:

    The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper
    in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)
     
    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be "consistent" with an "estimate" of 244 black students?

    To begin with, the figure 244 is not an "estimate" in that original paper: it is the actual number of blacks who scored at 750 or above on the 2005 math SAT. It may constitute only a reasonable estimate for performance in other years of the same era, but it is a hard fact about 2005 performance.

    So how do they get from 244 to 1000? By "conservative assumptions", which, they say, maximizes the number of blacks. Of course, ordinarily, "conservative assumptions" are a good thing, meant to keep one from leaping to crazy conclusions far out of the range of the probable. But here they are being used to opposite effect.

    And of course they use the CYA qualifier "at most 1000" so that they are not, technically, lying through their teeth about the whole thing. "at most 1000" is of course consistent with the real figure being 244 -- or 0, for that matter.

    Who, of any kind of rational bent, can read this sort of mealy-mouthed, dishonest, manipulative garbage without wanting to puke?

    Brookings is a respectable institution, albeit of a somewhat leftist bent, so they are not going to outright lie in a study such as this. However, it’s not lying when you say “at most 1,000″ rather than “244″, or if you “forget” to include the range 200 to 300 on your graph. Their aim is to make the problem seem serious but not dire and at all costs to maintain the current status quo Affirmative Action system. This is based upon the polite fiction that blacks are getting “a little leg up” to remedy past discrimination, bring the joy of diversity to us and maybe redistribute a little justice – just a touch. If the word got out that in fact what was happening is that totally unqualified people are being admitted based on their race while MUCH more qualified Asian applicants were being rejected, that might start to seem a tad unfair or a little too much on the redistributive side to be “just”. So you soft pedal it a little.

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  132. Dr. Doom says:

    The SAT has long ago been politicized. They point to the gap to obfuscate the facts. Fewer high end Whites bothering to go to college because they won’t hire them anyway. The minorities given points for their race. And that “Asians” are a tiny population compared to the others which draw large numbers of top tiers from The Far East. You can say a lot about statistics, but hiding and obscuring facts is what they are used for now.
    Since “Head Start” is such a cash cow they have no problem showing how poorly minorities do, with a skew to make it seem like there’s some hope when we all know there’s not. College has ceased to be an academic institution. Now its a place for like minded Party Apparatchniks to recruit the stupid and pliable. I imagine STEM course will be the first to be cut, with lots of racial grievance social just-us to replace it.
    AND THEN IT ALL FALLS DOWN.

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  133. Bill says:
    @Jack D
    Lower IQ populations always resent higher IQ populations - blacks resent whites, whites resent Ashkenazi Jews, etc. The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick. How long before the backlash against Asians in America really gets going, or will their concentration on the "nerdy" side of the high IQ niche protect them?

    The lower IQ population always feels that the smarter group is literally outsmarting them, cheating and manipulating them so that they always end up with the short end of the stick.

    It seems important to know whether or not this feeling, like, corresponds well to reality. I find it pretty hard to believe that blacks don’t get ripped off an awful lot, given how dumb they are. Somebody goes into title pawn and payday lending stores.

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  134. Jefferson says:
    @Alfa158
    The way the bell curve works, you have to go way out to the extreme ends before a group's higher average ability overcomes it's smaller population.
    I ran some numbers using census data and common assumptions about racial average IQ and standard deviation. It is just an exercise since the common assumptions may be off base.

    Population:
    Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M
    Blacks: 40M
    Asians (East Asian countries origin only) : 11M
    Jews: 5.7M
    Hispanics,(non White): 25M

    Common Assumption
    Average IQ:
    Whites: 100
    Blacks: 85
    East Asians: 108
    Jews: 115
    Hispanic: 90
    Standard deviation for all: 15

    At the exceptional genius end of IQ, 160 and higher, you would expect the following total number of individuals for each group;
    Whites: 7,500
    Blacks: 11
    East Asians: 3,800
    Jews: 7,121
    Hispanics: 38

    This does at least VERY roughly seem to correlate to the number of each group founding tech giants, winning Nobel Prizes in STEM and so forth (Asians so far seem to be underperforming).
    Again mileage may vary and I'm skeptical about the precise accuracy of the received wisdom..

    “Whites, (European and Hispanic, non Jewish): 240M”

    Do you really believe there are 40 million Hispanics in The U.S who are genetically 100 percent European in ancestry?

    Even if you wanted to (although it would be extremely inaccurate and misleading)
    to classify all Cubans in The U.S as 100 percent European, that still comes nowhere close to 40 million.

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  135. HA says:
    @Jack D
    As I said before, if you don't like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords (I for one welcome them!*). Perhaps the way Americans got treated in Japanese POW camps will give you a hint of things to come.

    *For the slow witted this is a joke and a Simpson's reference, just like Gorsuch was not REALLY the head of the Fascist Club in his high school. In fact, he came in 3rd in the balloting for Fascist club leader. No, no that's not it - there was NO fascist club in his high school.

    >”if you don’t like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords…”

    Spare me the shift-the-blame tactics. You think I can’t see through that?

    Here, I’ll do you one better: for the record, the biggest problem the deplorables have is neither with Jews, nor with Asians, but rather, the pasty goyishe Hillary Clintons of the world, who will happily dump on those same deplorables whatever setbacks and dysfunctions that integration and multiculturalism (and whatever other buzzword we’re supposed to embrace these days) will bring their way, confident as they are that their children’s schools and admission slots and internships will remain secure.

    That still doesn’t mean you get a pass whenever you start piling on.

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    • Agree: Desiderius
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  136. Bill says:
    @Jack D
    As I said before, if you don't like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords (I for one welcome them!*). Perhaps the way Americans got treated in Japanese POW camps will give you a hint of things to come.

    *For the slow witted this is a joke and a Simpson's reference, just like Gorsuch was not REALLY the head of the Fascist Club in his high school. In fact, he came in 3rd in the balloting for Fascist club leader. No, no that's not it - there was NO fascist club in his high school.

    Asians don’t reproduce. The ones who do, do so with whites. There will be no Asian overlords because there will be no Asians.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Asians don't reproduce, don't they? Let me submit for your consideration a little Chinese town called Cupertino.

    Another point: there are fancy Asians, and then there are jungle Asians. Don't conflate the involuntarily celibate former with the leporine latter, who, in my experience, are as fecund as sub-Saharan Africans. They are also about as accomplished, though; their progeny shall be the overlords of no one.
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  137. Jefferson says:
    @Ed
    Cal Tech is a private school and doesn't practice Affirmative Action. Thus the black population hovers around 1% annually.

    “Cal Tech is a private school and doesn’t practice Affirmative Action. Thus the black population hovers around 1% annually.”

    Also when there is a lack of Section 8 housing within close proximity a typical average upper middle class American neighborhood (which is different from a lower middle class neighborhood) tend to have low single digit percentage of Blacks, like the zip code where I reside which is only 2 percent Black.

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  138. Bill says:
    @Jack D
    There are a lot of problems with Ron's study. His reports of Jewish enrollment are based on things like unscientific estimates from campus Hillel associations, who have every incentive to exaggerate their numbers. Then there is the whole "who is a Jew?" question. I think that what is happening is that elite American society is becoming highly interbred between Jews and WASPs. You have both Trump and Clinton with Jewish in-laws. Ultimately, just about everyone in the elite breeding pool of folks who grow up in the coastal urban elite fishbowls and attend Ivy schools is going to be "a little bit Jewish", so if you define Jewish loosely enough the number might even go higher than 25%. There are a number of regulars here who strongly identify as WASP but admit to at least 1 Jewish grandparent.

    I don't think there is discrimination AGAINST Wasps per se in higher ed (other than as losers in the zero sum game of AA in FAVOR of NAMS). What there is, is discrimination against deplorables. If you are a WASP with the right credentials, you are as welcome as ever. However, if you are some sort of horrible deplorable from Bumblefud, Alabama who lists hunting, Right to Life and leadership of the Fascist Club as his school activities, then fuggedaboutit.

    If you are a WASP with the right credentials, you are as welcome as ever. However, if you are some sort of horrible deplorable from Bumblefud, Alabama who lists hunting, Right to Life and leadership of the Fascist Club as his school activities, then fuggedaboutit.

    Somehow, I doubt you would be hesitating to call this sort of facially neutral discrimination discrimination if the Ivies were rejecting anyone lacking a foreskin.

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  139. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    As I said before, if you don't like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords (I for one welcome them!*). Perhaps the way Americans got treated in Japanese POW camps will give you a hint of things to come.

    *For the slow witted this is a joke and a Simpson's reference, just like Gorsuch was not REALLY the head of the Fascist Club in his high school. In fact, he came in 3rd in the balloting for Fascist club leader. No, no that's not it - there was NO fascist club in his high school.

    “As I said before, if you don’t like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords”

    Asian business owners in The U.S rarely give out jobs to Non Asians, so expect the unemployment rate for African Americans and Hispanics to skyrocket even higher if the American upper middle class and American upper class ever become disproportionately Asian.

    For example there is a McDonald’s in 55 percent Asian Daly City that only hires Asians. Daly City is a suburb of San Francisco.

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    • Replies: @artichoke
    Some Asians like whites pretty well. But none of them would want anything to do with blacks, and probably also hispanics.

    But the solution is for the blacks and hispanics to start their own businesses. Since they're equal, why not? /s
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  140. @Langley
    "The SAT is, more or less, the Blue State college admissions test, so it gets more publicity. But the ACT, the Red State test, has overtaken the more famous SAT in numbers taking it."

    Can you expand on this? Why is ACT Red State and SAT Blue State?

    SAT run from Princeton, NJ, ACT from Iowa, I think from Iowa City.

    In the past, the SAT was dominant on the coasts, the ACT in the middle of the country. Lately they are pretty competitive across the country.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    The SAT is administered by the College Board which is based in NYC. They hire ETS to write it, which is based in Lawrence, NJ. Lawrence is the home of Jon Stewart.
    , @cthulhu
    I graduated high school in the early '80s in the mid-south part of the US; the local teachers' college hosted the regional ACT exam, but students wanting to take the SAT had to go to the major state university on a late fall Saturday - that was a two hours drive for me. But I had qualified as a National Merit semi-finalist, so I had to take the SAT to continue that process. I'd estimate that maybe 5% of the eligible high school seniors took the SAT, and more than 75% took the ACT.

    And I didn't even get the damned scholarship; I made National Merit Finalist, but didn't get the main prize. This was before test prep classes, my high school didn't even have a guidance counselor, and I knew absolutely nobody who had taken the SAT. I assumed it would be like the ACT. Bad assumption; it was a LOT different, especially the math portion. I ended up in the middle of the 90th decile on the SAT, but my ACT score was in the very high 90th decile; that math section - usually my strong suit - did me in (relatively speaking).

    I have no idea why the ACT and SAT were so different at that point in time.

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  141. @Hail

    the ever-growing Asian dominance at the high end.
     
    How much is Test Prep Effect? Is the Asian-White Gap more than expected from IQ estimates?

    Use of Test-Prep Courses and Gains, by Race and Ethnicity

    Group, % Taking Test-Prep Course, Post-Course Gain in Points on SAT
    East Asian American 30% 68.8
    Other Asian 15% 23.8
    White 10% 12.3
    Black 16% 14.9
    Hispanic 11% 24.6

    Notably, the gains come on top of unequal results in SAT scores to start with. Average scores for Asian American students (not broken out by East Asian and other Asian) have been growing at much faster rates than have those for other groups in recent years.

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/01/19/study-finds-east-asian-americans-gain-most-sat-courses

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Great information! Thank you very much for sharing it!

    Money talks when it comes to the SATs, in my opinion. Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups as well, hire expensive and experienced tutors to help them/their kids prepare for the test. Also Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups, take the test several times, not just once, and usually do better on their second or third attempt. A poor smart kid, whatever his or her ethnicity/religion, who can’t afford to take the test several times, is at a disadvantage here, and it skews the test results in favor of wealthier religious and ethnic groups; when they might in fact not be smarter, but just can afford to dedicate more time and resources towards achieving higher SAT scores

    [...]

    Also there is cheating…

    Law-enforcement officials in this country say that highly organized rings of college-admission-exams imposters—once considered a unique artifact of the high-stakes, test-driven Chinese education system—have arrived on U.S. shores.
    – http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

    – http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526
     
    - http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1730862
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  142. I clicked on this website that showed the supposed IQ of various celebrities yesterday, out if the thirty five people featured only four were black. Three were black women and one was our ex mulatto and chief. Obama’s IQ was 140, his wife Michelle was one of the women. In announcing her IQ they made it seem like a big deal.In a way it was kinda funny, they led up to it by saying I would be amazed at her IQ describing her as very intelligent. You would expect an IQ of 160 to 180 from the way they bragged her up, but then her IQ is an amazing 115. She was the lowest of all the celebrities listed.
    I have my doubts as to the validity of the scores because I don’t think that the Obama’s would have voluntarily submitted to an IQ test as it is a form racism.

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  143. res says:
    @George
    "nothing much changes, other than the ever-growing Asian dominance at the high end."

    If IQ is stable over time for 'race' groups, why is it changing? Why can't it change for blacks and whites.

    "racial gaps are really class gaps"

    What is the comparison between homeschool, public school, private school, US nationals living abroad?

    Asian population growth of 46% from 2000 to 2010 makes a big difference if everything else stays constant: http://www.asiamattersforamerica.org/asia/data/population/states

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  144. FKA Max says:
    @Triumph104

    Use of Test-Prep Courses and Gains, by Race and Ethnicity

    Group, % Taking Test-Prep Course, Post-Course Gain in Points on SAT
    East Asian American 30% 68.8
    Other Asian 15% 23.8
    White 10% 12.3
    Black 16% 14.9
    Hispanic 11% 24.6

    Notably, the gains come on top of unequal results in SAT scores to start with. Average scores for Asian American students (not broken out by East Asian and other Asian) have been growing at much faster rates than have those for other groups in recent years.
     
    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/01/19/study-finds-east-asian-americans-gain-most-sat-courses

    Great information! Thank you very much for sharing it!

    Money talks when it comes to the SATs, in my opinion. Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups as well, hire expensive and experienced tutors to help them/their kids prepare for the test. Also Asians, and I assume Jews and other wealthy groups, take the test several times, not just once, and usually do better on their second or third attempt. A poor smart kid, whatever his or her ethnicity/religion, who can’t afford to take the test several times, is at a disadvantage here, and it skews the test results in favor of wealthier religious and ethnic groups; when they might in fact not be smarter, but just can afford to dedicate more time and resources towards achieving higher SAT scores

    [...]

    Also there is cheating…

    Law-enforcement officials in this country say that highly organized rings of college-admission-exams imposters—once considered a unique artifact of the high-stakes, test-driven Chinese education system—have arrived on U.S. shores.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/03/how-sophisticated-test-scams-from-china-are-making-their-way-into-the-us/474474/

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/sat-scandal/#comment-1544526

    http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1730862

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  145. @Steve Sailer
    My quality of sleep has been going up due to better technology like better earplugs, better windows, and I finally stopped stupidly sleeping under three blankets in winter and switched to an electric blanket.

    Turning off the TV or computer an hour before retiring will help you get to sleep more easily. Getting enough sleep regularly, along with a decent diet and some exercise, will make life much easier.

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  146. @Ed
    The Brookings estimate of 2,200 blacks scoring above 700 in SAT Math seems inflated. When the Journal of Black Hiher education looked at the situation ten years ago they only found that only 1,132 blacks, representing 1.1% of the >700 total.

    http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

    They still represent 1%. According to College Board, 219,018 blacks took the SAT in 2015 and 1% scored over 700 in math. Brookings is right.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

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    • Replies: @Ed
    Sorry wasn't clear. The 1.1% is of all test takers that scored above 700, not all black test taker, now Brookings says it's 2%.
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  147. What’s happening with the Asian composition in the us? We have to watch this. The overrepresentetion at the high end is expected but note that they are perfectly represented at the bottom. About 6% of the us high school population might be Asian. This years Pisa scores showed the bizarre case of asians not being higher than whites in scores. We’ve seen an influx of probably lower iq asians over the past few years. Refugees from Burma and Bangladesh and our middle eastern population is only increasing. Some of these middle eastern people might define themselves as asians too. Worth keeping track of- is the iq dispersion of asians increasing? And is the average iq of asians decreasing in the us?

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  148. HA says:
    @Old fogey
    Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?

    >”Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?”

    My guess is because “whites” include a fair number of miscounted Latinos and other “miscellaneous” categories, and citizens from parts of the country where meth increasingly serves as both recreation and employment. The latter group is already a matter concern in that they’re likely the same very whites whose dads and grand-dads are offing themselves so as to reduce overall life expectancy rates.

    Oddly enough, it seems that swapping out Christianity for the holy trinity of sex/drugs/rock-n-roll hasn’t worked out as well as the 60′s and 70′s assured us that it would. Who would’ve guessed?

    Moreover, once one factors out that problematic group, I’m guessing the gap in question will shrink substantially , and to the extent that readers are confident that their children are not in the group bringing the curve down, it’s less of a cause for worry.

    (You see, Jack D? I’m allowed to dis the meth-heads among the whites because rather than sneering at them, I actually recognize that they, too, are victims, as much as anyone else in that group whose troubles are supposed to be our concern.)

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    • Replies: @artichoke
    Still, there are a lot more whites than Asians in USA. But MOST of the 750+ scores are Asians. That's a bad showing by whites. We've got to take better care of our own kids and teach them how to do math. We know the schools don't teach this well -- how good were the school math teachers at math anyway?

    But Asian "tiger parents" don't expect the schools to do the whole job.
    , @Jack D
    I don't buy the "victim" thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points. People need to take responsibility for their own fates. Your parents are meth heads and you're in a dead end town? Get on a bus and get the hell out of Dodge. It's doable. A good % of American Presidents had drunks for fathers.
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  149. Amasius says:
    @MarkinLA
    If I resent Ashkenazi Jews it has noting to do with them being smarter or more successful. It has to do with them being leftist trash who want to turn this country into a shit-hole as well as get us involved in Israel's wars.

    Maybe that's why you don't see a backlash against Asians.

    Great comment. Overseas Chinese communities act like what the jews think they themselves act like: they keep to themselves and make money. They don’t seek to undermine and poison their host societies out of pathological hatred.

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  150. @anon
    the gap can only be closed biologically

    if SJWs genuinely want an egalitarian society they need to stop fooling themselves

    there is no way to achieve it without focusing on the genetics

    there is no way to achieve it without focusing on the genetics

    That’s why the media’s pushing race mixing so hard.

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    • Replies: @anon
    yes
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  151. @Bill
    Asians don't reproduce. The ones who do, do so with whites. There will be no Asian overlords because there will be no Asians.

    Asians don’t reproduce, don’t they? Let me submit for your consideration a little Chinese town called Cupertino.

    Another point: there are fancy Asians, and then there are jungle Asians. Don’t conflate the involuntarily celibate former with the leporine latter, who, in my experience, are as fecund as sub-Saharan Africans. They are also about as accomplished, though; their progeny shall be the overlords of no one.

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  152. donut says:
    1754733

    Unless your family was on board . Then it’s a hoot . What do you think ?

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  153. Olorin says:
    @guest
    The Gap (tm) is endless job security for educationists and public "servants" of all kinds. In this sense, blank slate-ism and anti-HBD are successful because they fail.

    The moment I realized that in the early 1990s was the moment I left the Ed Biz.

    Well, I actually still worked for and with university research centers, but they were involved with analyzing data and to a much lesser degree pioneering new technical/trades training programs for emerging blue-white collar jobs/enterprises.

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  154. MarkinLA says:
    @matt
    It's worth noting that SAT trends don't necessarily follow IQ trends, even though the two are highly correlated. Flynn (1984) (pp. 36-39) observed that while SAT scores among white Americans fell sharply between 1964 and 1981, IQ scores among this group simultaneously rose dramatically. That is to say, although IQ and SAT scores were correlated around r = 0.8 among whites in 1964, and around r = 0.8 among whites in 1981, the generational IQ gap is in favor of the 1981-whites, and the SAT gap was in the opposite direction, in favor of the 1964-whites. Thus, the fact that there is an SAT gap, in a certain direction, between two groups doesn't tell us anything about whether there is an IQ gap between the groups, or, if there is, in what direction it points, or how large it is. This is so even if IQ and SAT scores are highly correlated (even at r = 1.0) in both groups.

    Flynn found this result "inexplicable", but Rodgers (1999) demonstrated that there is no inconsistency in two variables being highly correlated at any given time while their means change in opposite directions over time, since means and correlations are statistically independent. Rodgers gives a handy graph (Fig. 1) on p. 343 showing how this could be so even if r = 1.0 at each time.

    Well, when you didn’t want your ass shot off in Vietnam you made damn sure you got good SAT scores. Due to all the campus building during the 60s and 70s there was more than enough room for just about any decent student at even the flagship campuses of the state universities – so why prepare for the SAT. Just show up and take it, it really won’t matter unless you want to get into Harvard anyway.

    The Asian grinders and flood of foreign students have made everybody study way too hard to get into college.

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  155. Fascinating article in the NYT on Chinese kids airlifted to US public high schools. First draws you in because it focuses on the HS in Oxford, Michigan, a small town north of Detroit that of course has nothing to do with the English university, but Chinese parents love the idea of an HS diploma with “Oxford” in its name:

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/magazine/the-parachute-generation.html

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  156. artichoke says:
    @dearieme
    When the UK was due to hand over Hong Kong to the commies, I had a notion that the UK should offer citizenship to any HKer who would fund the transfer out of the UK of families of immigrants of less desirable sorts. Unsurprisingly I didn't waste my breath explaining the merits of this scheme.

    But I offer the idea free to the US. Get those rich Chinese (and others) to fund the solution of your racial/ethnic/immigrant/etc problems in return for citizenship. As a start, you ought to make the "anchor baby" route to residence and citizenship unavailable so that citizenship becomes a usefully expensive commodity. I also commend the idea to the Ozzies; a few rich Chinese would fund the repatriation of lots of troublemakers to some patches of their continents of origin.

    It’s almost impossible to get the less desirable immigrants to leave a welfare state once they’re in. All you can do is try to keep them out in the first place. (Trump is doing this at the moment and the left is screaming of course.)

    In the run-up to 1997 in Hong Kong, the UK did offer regular UK citizenship to all the desirable HK citizens they could find, something like 1/3 of all the HK citizens. All the civil servants at a decent level, any successful professional, etc. It was unashamedly merit based, and those who weren’t offered the citizenship were very bitter.

    The handover itself to China was an amazingly bitter moment. 20 years later they are still mad, probably in part because most of the people there (or their parents)were explicitly rejected by the UK before the handover.

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  157. artichoke says:
    @HA
    >"Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?"

    My guess is because "whites" include a fair number of miscounted Latinos and other "miscellaneous" categories, and citizens from parts of the country where meth increasingly serves as both recreation and employment. The latter group is already a matter concern in that they're likely the same very whites whose dads and grand-dads are offing themselves so as to reduce overall life expectancy rates.

    Oddly enough, it seems that swapping out Christianity for the holy trinity of sex/drugs/rock-n-roll hasn't worked out as well as the 60's and 70's assured us that it would. Who would've guessed?

    Moreover, once one factors out that problematic group, I'm guessing the gap in question will shrink substantially , and to the extent that readers are confident that their children are not in the group bringing the curve down, it's less of a cause for worry.

    (You see, Jack D? I'm allowed to dis the meth-heads among the whites because rather than sneering at them, I actually recognize that they, too, are victims, as much as anyone else in that group whose troubles are supposed to be our concern.)

    Still, there are a lot more whites than Asians in USA. But MOST of the 750+ scores are Asians. That’s a bad showing by whites. We’ve got to take better care of our own kids and teach them how to do math. We know the schools don’t teach this well — how good were the school math teachers at math anyway?

    But Asian “tiger parents” don’t expect the schools to do the whole job.

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  158. artichoke says:
    @Jefferson
    "As I said before, if you don’t like the way some Jews regard deplorables, just wait and see how well you will like your new Asian overlords"

    Asian business owners in The U.S rarely give out jobs to Non Asians, so expect the unemployment rate for African Americans and Hispanics to skyrocket even higher if the American upper middle class and American upper class ever become disproportionately Asian.

    For example there is a McDonald's in 55 percent Asian Daly City that only hires Asians. Daly City is a suburb of San Francisco.

    Some Asians like whites pretty well. But none of them would want anything to do with blacks, and probably also hispanics.

    But the solution is for the blacks and hispanics to start their own businesses. Since they’re equal, why not? /s

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  159. artichoke says:
    @james wilson
    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels. I wonder if that is true of the east Asian to some degree as well.

    I think the Asian IQ spectrum is also narrower than whites, so proportionately less 150+ scores. But you don’t need that kind of an IQ to score 750 on the SAT. I’d guess 140 is plenty, with proper studying. And “proper studying” and a little cheating here and there is what Asians are known for.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I think the Asian IQ spectrum is also narrower than whites, so proportionately less 150+ scores.
     
    That's often asserted by white supremacist types as a way of explaning away Asian IQ advantage ("Must be because their smart fraction is smaller"), but has not been demonstrated. In fact, Steven Hsu found the opposite in his review of PISA numbers, i.e. Asians have a greater variance in cognitive abilities than whites do: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html
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  160. @candid_observer
    If you read the entire passage that mentions the performance of blacks above 750 on the math SAT, it is a pure exercise in weasel word BS:

    The College Board’s publicly available data provides data on racial composition at 50-point score intervals. We estimate that in the entire country last year at most 2,200 black and 4,900 Latino test-takers scored above a 700. In comparison, roughly 48,000 whites and 52,800 Asians scored that high. The same absolute disparity persists among the highest scorers: 16,000 whites and 29,570 Asians scored above a 750, compared to only at most 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos. (These estimates—which rely on conservative assumptions that maximize the number of high-scoring black students, are consistent with an older estimate from a 2005 paper
    in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, which found that only 244 black students scored above a 750 on the math section of the SAT.)
     
    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be "consistent" with an "estimate" of 244 black students?

    To begin with, the figure 244 is not an "estimate" in that original paper: it is the actual number of blacks who scored at 750 or above on the 2005 math SAT. It may constitute only a reasonable estimate for performance in other years of the same era, but it is a hard fact about 2005 performance.

    So how do they get from 244 to 1000? By "conservative assumptions", which, they say, maximizes the number of blacks. Of course, ordinarily, "conservative assumptions" are a good thing, meant to keep one from leaping to crazy conclusions far out of the range of the probable. But here they are being used to opposite effect.

    And of course they use the CYA qualifier "at most 1000" so that they are not, technically, lying through their teeth about the whole thing. "at most 1000" is of course consistent with the real figure being 244 -- or 0, for that matter.

    Who, of any kind of rational bent, can read this sort of mealy-mouthed, dishonest, manipulative garbage without wanting to puke?

    On any reasonable meaning of the terms, how can an estimate of 1000 blacks scoring 750 or above be “consistent” with an “estimate” of 244 black students?

    Three ways:

    1. Since 2005, more smart blacks in flyover states are taking the SAT in addition to the ACT.

    Ronald Nelson from Memphis scored 34 out of 36 on the ACT. His 2260 out of 2400 on the SAT made him a National Merit Scholar for the state of Tennessee. Nelson turned down all 8 Ivys for a full scholarship to the University of Alabama.

    Love Osunnuga of South Bend, IN earned perfect scores on both the SAT and ACT. She decided to accept a full scholarship to Notre Dame since she was only 16 and wanted to be close to home.

    2. As Jack D has mentioned, immigration and mixed-race kids are responsible for most of the increase, such as Nigerian Igbo Love Osunnuga above.

    3. The “last year” that Brookings is talking about is 2016. In 2015, College Board reported that 1% of 219,018 blacks scored 700 or above on the math section. Using this data, Brookings’ “conservative estimate” is that less than 45% (less than 1000) could have scored 750 or above in 2016.

    However, Brookings is ignoring that the SAT was changed in 2016. It is now far easier to score 700 in math. So I would say that more than 1000 blacks scored 750 on the SAT in 2016. A 700 on the old pre-2016 exam is a 730 on the new SAT. An old 720 in math is now a 750. An 800 is still an 800 in math, so more people can now catch up with the Asians.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/05/11/why-your-new-sat-score-is-not-as-strong-as-you-think-it-is/?utm_term=.03321ec9720e

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  161. @RonaldB
    Let's take it from the point of view of the individual.

    It's a pretty-well-known effect that the competition for minorities causes colleges to ratchet down their admission standards for blacks. Blacks who are suitable for a branch state college are recruited to the flagship university, blacks suitable for the flagship are invited to Cal Tech and the University of Massachusetts, and those adapted to U of M are grabbed by Yale and Harvard.

    I know what it's like to be at the bottom of the class. Besides the sinking feeling, you see the material pass so quickly you don't have a clue what it is. And the tragedy is that at a slower pace, it's readily comprehensible.

    The black students who are victims of this ratcheting effect either drop out, take a useless degree like Black Studies, or are passed through at the behest of embattled administrators. The result is, you have fewer qualified black engineers, accountants, managers, nurses and other productive professionals than you would have in an environment not sullied by racial promotions. Those black professionals who make it through are thoroughly dependent on affirmative action, and know it.

    My suspicion is that with automation, the future is going to belong to people who have a definite skill related to service, plumbing, carpentry, office manager, medical technician, who do it well, and who are personable and reliable. The racial divides will be far less, if the SJWs don't get involved.

    This may be the first time I have seen CalTech and UMass in the same sentence.

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  162. The cat’s outta the bag, universities have been discriminating against dumb people.

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    • Replies: @guest
    How long will it be before that gets the full, open anti-discrimination, inclusivity treatment? Because there's money to be made letting everyone into college; if not from the students' parents, then from the state. Stupid people are easier to teach, so long as you don't care whether they learn anything, or even show up.

    I'm making this up as I go, but now it occurs to me that this is basically what happened to K-12 school. Once most people never went to school at all, of course. But our American culture has valued education, or in New England fetishized it. If you listen to Jefferson it was all about finding diamonds in the rough. Who cares about the rabble that doesn't need it anyway, above a certain level necessary for democratic citizenship, or whatever? So you could stop when you're 12 and have your letters and figures, strap yourself to a plow, and you're done.

    Now basically every last kid, including literal retards, are made to sit in warehouses seven hours a day, and as often as instruction they speak of "socialization" (because without school kids never met other human beings all day), and without saying so they're gradually taking over normal functions of parentage, family, and community. Used to be they were teaching kids to be good citizens and sit still in factories , but I don't know what they think they're doing now.

    In any case, there's no reason they have to stop doing it at 18. Why not 30? Why not for freaking ever?

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  163. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “It’s just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.”

    There’s a 400 year or so discrepency/confusion here.

    The Catholic monasteries in England were siezed (dissolved) by Henry VIII in the years 1536-1541.

    Aristotle (and other Greek works) were relearned by Europeans in the mid 1100s:

    Aristotle, Influence on Western Christian theologians:

    “…In the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, interest in Aristotle revived and Latin Christians had translations made, both from Arabic translations, such as those by Gerard of Cremona, and from the original Greek, such as those by James of Venice and William of Moerbeke.

    After Thomas Aquinas wrote his theology, working from Moerbeke’s translations, the demand for Aristotle’s writings grew and the Greek manuscripts returned to the West, stimulating a revival of Aristotelianism in Europe that continued into the Renaissance.”

    Much of the ancient works that were saved by Islamic scholars were translated by the Toledo School of Translaters:

    “…Raymond of Toledo, Archbishop of Toledo from 1126 to 1151, started the first translation efforts at the library of the Cathedral of Toledo, where he led a team of translators…”

    These stimulated and interest in finding and translating originals.

    So there is no connection between the dissolution of the monasteries and Muslims saving the works of Aristotle.

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  164. @Steve Sailer
    SAT run from Princeton, NJ, ACT from Iowa, I think from Iowa City.

    In the past, the SAT was dominant on the coasts, the ACT in the middle of the country. Lately they are pretty competitive across the country.

    The SAT is administered by the College Board which is based in NYC. They hire ETS to write it, which is based in Lawrence, NJ. Lawrence is the home of Jon Stewart.

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  165. @SteveM

    An analysis of the 2013-2014 LSAT finds an average black score of 142 compared to an average white score of 153. This amounts to a black-white achievement gap of 1.06 standard deviations, even higher than that on the SAT.
     
    Whoever wrote that apparently knows nothing about statistics. That statement is meaningless. There is NO explicit correlation between a mean and a standard deviation. I.e., two empirical distributions can have the same mean but wildly different standard deviations.

    If the clueless author meant the ratio of the White:Black scores, well ratio comparisons are meaningless using a scale that is not zero based. E.g. Kelvin temperature ratios have meaning, Celsius and Fahrenheit do not other than the obvious. I.e., one item is hotter than the other. The SAT is not zero based. I can't speak to the ACT and LSAT.

    The takeaway is that using garbage statistics can result in garbage analysis.

    Umm, the ratio of 153:142 is 1.o8, not 1.06.

    However, the LSAT SD in 2013-14 was 10.38. Since the gap was 11, this is a gap of 11/10.38, or 1.06 SD

    So yes, SOMEONE knows nothing about statistics.

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  166. gcochran says:
    @Ed
    Cal Tech is a private school and doesn't practice Affirmative Action. Thus the black population hovers around 1% annually.

    Cal Tech does affirmative action for chicks.

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  167. Broski says:
    @William Badwhite
    "whites resent Ashkenazi Jews"...clever how you slid that in there...

    He’s not necessarily wrong. What do you think pogroms were, other than less intelligent debt peons and starving people killing more intelligent loan sharks and hard bargainers?

    Whether the loan sharks/tax farmers/hard bargainers were parasites or symbiotes I’ll leave to you. (As well as the question of whether they were simultaneously symbiotes with a selfish elite and parasites upon the poor.)

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    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    I believed he was referring to present time, more or less. What happened centuries ago in another country is of no concern of mine. However it clearly is still a concern of certain folks.

    Being white, I know quite a few whites. Very few (if any) "resent ashenazi jews".
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  168. Broski says:
    @anon

    The only explanation I can think of is that the Asian group is really not a single group but a blend of two (or more) different groups with different distributions .
     
    yes, i think that's becoming very clear

    Not just Filipinos and Pacific Islanders, but Hmong, Viet, Cambodians, Thai etc. are not that smart. In my experience they tend to be hard working like more northerly Asians, though (with the exception of the Islanders and probably the Hmong).

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it.

    http://caaspp.cde.ca.gov/sb2016/Search
    , @anon
    yes "Asian" is too broad a category if you believe geography is key
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  169. Broski says:
    @james wilson
    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels. I wonder if that is true of the east Asian to some degree as well.

    This is a simple function of genetic variation. One X and one Y chromosome allows the expression of eccentricity on both chromosomes, whereas two Xs will round out the eccentricities of both.

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  170. donut says:
    @Negrolphin Pool

    After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    It doesn't matter if the load was distributed within the plane's operating envelope, so long as justice was properly distributed.

    Social justice, meet engineering.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lksDISvCmNI

    Sailer wouldn’t pass my first response to this post but maybe he will pass this : if your family was aboard then it would be funny .

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  171. Ed says:
    @Triumph104
    They still represent 1%. According to College Board, 219,018 blacks took the SAT in 2015 and 1% scored over 700 in math. Brookings is right.

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    Sorry wasn’t clear. The 1.1% is of all test takers that scored above 700, not all black test taker, now Brookings says it’s 2%.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    I understand.

    The reason the SAT was changed in 2016 was because the exam was losing market share to the ACT exam. The market that SAT was losing was whites, however, SAT gained blacks.

    In 2005, 153,132 blacks took the SAT. In 2015, 219,018 blacks took the SAT.

    In 2005, 51,587 whites scored 700 or above on the SAT math section. In 2015, only 48,014 whites (6% of 800,236) scored 700 or above on the SAT math section.

    As mentioned, the increased number of blacks scoring 700 plus on the math SAT are overwhelmingly the children of immigrants or mixed-race or both. I couldn't figure out how Brittany Stinson got into five Ivys and Stanford, until I read a Quartz article that said that she has a white father and Brazilian mother who "identifies" as black. Brittany told Quartz that she is a proponent of affirmative action.

    Photo of Brittany Stinson:
    http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/education/2016/04/16/essay-makes-concord-valedictorian-momentarily-famous/83100152/

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf
    http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
    https://qz.com/657374/a-high-schooler-was-accepted-to-five-ivy-league-colleges-with-an-essay-about-costco/
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  172. @syonredux

    “They counted just about anyone with even one Jewish grandparent as Jewish.”
    The extremes meet.

    And you were at Berkeley as well? I wonder how many of us there are here.
     
    Quite a few, I suspect. Living in CA is itself a redpill.....and then add going to UC Berkeley.....

    Quite a few, I suspect. Living in CA is itself a redpill…..and then add going to UC Berkeley…..

    This is the dawning of the age of the post-progressive.

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  173. @Jack D
    I agree, but this still puts the "true" Asian mean at 650 or so, again 1.5 SDs ahead of whites, in Ashkenazi Jewish territory (or better). And Asian is a big basket that includes some lower functioning groups such as Filipinos, Hmong, etc. so for Han, Koreans, etc. the number might be even higher.

    That the NY admission by test high schools are now 75% Asian may give you a hint of things to come and a clue at how much discrimination is being practiced at places like Harvard to keep that from happening. This mirrors what happened during the great Jewish migration wave. Even the pretext that is used to exclude them, "holistic" admission, is the same. In places that don't have racial concerns (e.g. Japan) there is no such thing as holistic admissions. They just rank order the test takers and fill their class from the top down - this saves them a whole lot of time and money spent reading college applications and the end results are better.

    the “true” Asian mean at 650 or so, again 1.5 SDs ahead of whites

    What is included in that “white” category? Arabs? Slavs? Irish?

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  174. @Old Palo Altan
    I was at Berkeley from 1967-1971. I have been a "racial realist" since I was maybe 8 years old, so I did a lot of noticing while I was there. Asians were around in very small numbers; they never bothered me in the slightest; I even knew and liked some, but then again these were Japanese, i.e. honorary Aryans. Blacks? Perhaps a few on the athletic side of life, but everybody knew what that meant.
    The Jews were everywhere in math, science and fake (positivist) philosophy. Some were admirable; indeed, I knew none who were not. There was only one in the history department, but he had converted to Congregationalism and probably regretted his black wavy locks. He lectured very entertainingly on modern European history, and I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
    There was a secret Jew in my fraternity as well; it was amusing to bait him occasionally because he never failed to rise. But he was of a conservative temper, and I liked him too.
    I've never looked up to the Jews though, and laugh if someone (like Jack D) preens about an imagined superiority. Or, if you like, a testable superiority. Genius is not like that, and a race which has produced a Bach, a Newton and a Leibnitz, not to mention an Aristotle, has no reason at all to look up enviously at the race which gave us Mahler, Freud, and Marx.

    I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.

    The canary in the coal mine. I’ve noticed a lot of that sort of thing in my various brushes with the Academy.

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    • Replies: @Francis G.
    Tenure has little to do with an aptitude for teaching and more to do with your publishing record and how much grant money your research projects can bring in. Sometimes they can overlap: Prof. Alex Filippenko, for instance, is a great teacher and a great researcher.
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  175. @El Dato

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.
     
    It's "its monasteries"

    These were pretty good stores of accumulated knowledge though.

    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It's just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It's where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state's predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It’s where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state’s predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.

    What do you do when your colleges have been taken over by the raiding parties to more effectively plot and rationalize the predatory wealth collection?

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  176. anonguy says:
    @Steve Sailer
    My quality of sleep has been going up due to better technology like better earplugs, better windows, and I finally stopped stupidly sleeping under three blankets in winter and switched to an electric blanket.

    Why does better windows help?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Double pane windows cut a lot of sound.

    I've only put in four so far, but they actually make it a little quieter in the back bedroom where I don't have any yet.

    One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century.

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  177. cthulhu says:
    @Steve Sailer
    SAT run from Princeton, NJ, ACT from Iowa, I think from Iowa City.

    In the past, the SAT was dominant on the coasts, the ACT in the middle of the country. Lately they are pretty competitive across the country.

    I graduated high school in the early ’80s in the mid-south part of the US; the local teachers’ college hosted the regional ACT exam, but students wanting to take the SAT had to go to the major state university on a late fall Saturday – that was a two hours drive for me. But I had qualified as a National Merit semi-finalist, so I had to take the SAT to continue that process. I’d estimate that maybe 5% of the eligible high school seniors took the SAT, and more than 75% took the ACT.

    And I didn’t even get the damned scholarship; I made National Merit Finalist, but didn’t get the main prize. This was before test prep classes, my high school didn’t even have a guidance counselor, and I knew absolutely nobody who had taken the SAT. I assumed it would be like the ACT. Bad assumption; it was a LOT different, especially the math portion. I ended up in the middle of the 90th decile on the SAT, but my ACT score was in the very high 90th decile; that math section – usually my strong suit – did me in (relatively speaking).

    I have no idea why the ACT and SAT were so different at that point in time.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    In recent years the SAT and ACT were very similar (in terms of the scores you could expect to get after converting from 1 to the other), to the point where most colleges will now allow you to take 1 and not the other and they just convert the score to their favored test (SAT on the coasts, ACT in the middle). However, some daylight may have opened up in that the new SAT is significantly easier, given that the guessing penalty has been eliminated and there are now 4 choices instead of 5. At certain levels, scores are now up to 100 points higher on the new version.
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  178. @anonguy
    Why does better windows help?

    Double pane windows cut a lot of sound.

    I’ve only put in four so far, but they actually make it a little quieter in the back bedroom where I don’t have any yet.

    One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century.

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    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    In the early nineties, I moved from an old New York brownstone studio apartment into a modern high-rise in which each floor was built on a massive concrete slab. The difference in sound proofing was dramatic. I lived there for a few years, and never heard any sound at all from the apartment above me or the one below, in marked contrast to the studio apartment, where it was easy to tell if the neighbors were playing the TV loud. I'm not sure what separated apartments on the same floor, but my apartment was mostly sonically isolated laterally, too.

    And you're right. Double glazing cuts out street noise and police sirens really well. A few years later, I lived directly above a highway overpass in an Asian city, but my apartment there had double glazed windows. It was very quiet.
    , @candid_observer
    The other point is air conditioning in the cities.

    When I first moved to NYC I came directly from the small town in which I was raised. It was early September, and, in my dorm, the windows had to be kept open because it was miserably hot. An elevated subway was less than a block from my dorm.

    I didn't sleep for three nights. I couldn't understand how anybody could sleep -- though, on the fourth night, I managed to.

    , @Triumph104
    I sleep well now after purchasing a Sound Screen (aka Sleep Mate) white noise machine. I turn the heat off in the evenings to experience the natural overnight decrease in temperature. I sleep with two or three thin quilts with polyester batting, mostly covering my feet. I tend to wake up the same time each morning without an alarm clock.
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  179. gregor says:
    @European-American
    Steve, the last link is incorrect, it should be
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/02/01/race-gaps-in-sat-math-scores-are-as-big-as-ever/
    Though it doesn't seem to add much compared to the main article. Both have this doozy of a finding:

    In a perfectly equal distribution, the racial breakdown of scores ... would mirror the composition of test-takers as whole i.e. 51 percent white, 21 percent Latino, 14 percent black, and 14 percent Asian.
    ...
    we estimate that at most only 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos scored above a 750, compared to some 16,000 whites and 29,600 Asians.
     
    So at the top, there should be 51% whites and 14% Asians, instead there are 33% whites and 60% Asians. My math is not that good (I'm white), but it looks like Asians are doing four times better than they should.

    How is that not the most commented about fact? It's certainly the one I and any Asians will find the most interesting. It's easy to make jokes about "yellow privilege" or whatever, and I congratulate my Asian friends on their talent, but seriously,

    1) How does this not definitively invalidate all the arguments that society is causing racial inequality, and that we need to work harder to fix it? Or has a super-secret cabal of Asians managed to rig testing under our very noses, or are they all cheating?

    2) What are the consequences for American society if we keep importing a cognitively superior race? Is this desirable? Unavoidable if we want to compete?

    I am just stunned that this is not a bigger topic of discussion. Is it racist to say others may be superior? I guess so. Race doesn't exist, bla bla bla. Except wtf is that graph about then???

    I have seen several accounts indicating that Asians tend to underperform their test scores. They do score high on the SAT-M, but they don’t seem to be represented among elite mathematicians to the extent you’d think based on those scores. They do not score any higher on the LSAT and they pass the California Bar at a slightly lower rate than whites. They are also underrepresented in the upper levels of the business world.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    Right, obviously SATs and IQ are not a perfect predictor of success in any activity. In basketball, for example, while IQ is no doubt correlated with success (all other things being equal), SAT scores are a poor predictor of success, since height, physical ability, and group dynamics are more important factors.

    I bet something similar happens for business and many other activities.

    Still, we, like most societies, decide to select people primarily on IQ-related criteria for entrance into the most selective institutions of learning, and more generally into many institutions that have selection.

    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution. It wasn't a big concern when whites were on top (also because Jews are not very visible), but now that Asians are visibly kicking everybody else's ass in IQ in our country... Maybe this will become a more serious and very real concern, and not just an opportunity for status signaling.

    But any such correction strikes me as making only a marginal difference in outcomes. The real question is, are you OK with replacing your country's elites with elites from another culture and race?... Awkward...

    , @peter johnson
    This is true -- Asians who make it into doctoral programs have unusually high failure rates for doctoral students - not because they cannot pass the exams (they on average do quite well even at doctoral-level exams) but because some of them cannot write good quality independent research theses. This is anecdotal, but is passed around among academics in the know -- I have not seen any real empirical research on it. It is a data point which is simultaneously politically very delicate and not really that important.
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  180. What’s the story with the Nigerians? They seem to be smarter than the average bear.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's not all Nigerians, it's mostly those from the Igbo tribe which for some reason is smarter than most African tribes. Out of 175 million people in Nigeria, maybe 30 million are Igbo (aka Ibo).

    https://newtelegraphonline.com/news/igbos-brilliant-black-africa-race/

    Anytime you read a story about a black teenager who has been accepted to every single Ivy League school, he/she is usually an Igbo. Now if Igbos were from China then they would just be ho-hum, but blacks with high IQs are like the Holy Grail to American universities. It's just one more job that (black) Americans won't do.
    , @syonredux

    What’s the story with the Nigerians? They seem to be smarter than the average bear.
     
    Well, only if the bears in question are Black......
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  181. Just for fun, I tried plugging in the Brookings racial fractions for test-takers as well as iSteve’s numbers for racial IQ means and variances.

    From some Google searching I estimated that a 750-800 SAT Math scorers would have about 135+ IQ.

    What I would guess for the racial makeup of 750-800 scorers just from IQ distributions alone (for IQ 135+) would be:

    White: 34.4%
    Hispanic: 1.6%
    Asian: 60.4%
    Black: 0.4%

    The numbers Brookings gives in that bracket are:

    White: 33%
    Hispanic: 5%
    Asian: 60%
    Black: 2%

    For comparison, how about an IQ 112+ or 500-550 score? My numbers and the Brookings numbers in parentheses:

    White: 53.3% (60%)
    Hispanic: 6.7% (19%)
    Asian: 34.5% (10%)
    Black: 2.5% (10%)

    This rough La Griffe du Lion-style model has good agreement for Whites and Asians, but the apparent over-performance of Blacks and Hispanics in this model probably results from my rough and very quick estimates for IQ to SAT conversion factors and IQ mean/variance estimates.

    But overall I’m pretty pleased with the performance of this model relative to the time spent on it.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Probably because either the College Board or Brookings are fudging their numbers and adopting a very broad (or as they say "conservative") method for counting who is "black" and "Hispanic". So a 100% Castilian Cuban or Lebanese Christian Mexican who should really get counted in the white category gets put down as Hispanic and someone who is 1/2 or more white gets counted as 100% black (whereas mulattoes tend to have IQ somewhere between black and white on average).

    Immigrant blacks are another special case because they are a selected group. We see this with S. Asians - overall S. Asian IQ is no great shakes but in the US we get a selected group of smarter Indians and since they have a billion people they have a large pool to select from.

    An illustrative anecdote. When my daughter went away to college (a well known technical u. in Mass.), she extolled to me the virtues of her "black" friend who was just as smart as any white person, thus proving my HBD notions wrong. When I finally met this black genius, he was about as black as Benjamin Jealous and it turned out he was the product of a marriage between an upper class Haitian woman and a Frenchman. The mother had taken off and he had been raised by his very strict French father. But for SAT and college admission purposes, he was "black".
    , @anonguy

    From some Google searching I estimated that a 750-800 SAT Math scorers would have about 135+ IQ.
     
    That is from current SAT, no? Pre-norming, I think that SAT Math range is associated with 150+ IQ
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  182. guest says:
    @Formerly CARealist
    Two questions to you:

    1. So since they removed the regatta questions it hasn't helped the poor or black students who never go yachting? I'm genuinely surprised.

    2. Will you explain this? "maybe if it were more intelligence-related and less training-related like before the White-Asian gap would be a little less wide." The Asian students who get those high scores go on to get good grades in college by studying their asses off. I know there's cheating, but still, it can't be all just test-taking skills that make them so successful.

    I remember taking the ACT, and the reading comprehension portion (is that a thing, or am I thinking about something else?) was about soap operas. I had half a mind to complain tongue-in-cheekily about sex bias.

    Did anyone honestly ever think blacks (or anyone) was tanking because of white words like “yacht” and “ascot?” Because it sounds like wildly casting for excuses to me. Not to mention the fact that even if they go all hardcore STEM they’re gonna have to learn the white man’s words to graduate and get by anyway.

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  183. guest says:
    @Mack Bolan
    The cat's outta the bag, universities have been discriminating against dumb people.

    How long will it be before that gets the full, open anti-discrimination, inclusivity treatment? Because there’s money to be made letting everyone into college; if not from the students’ parents, then from the state. Stupid people are easier to teach, so long as you don’t care whether they learn anything, or even show up.

    I’m making this up as I go, but now it occurs to me that this is basically what happened to K-12 school. Once most people never went to school at all, of course. But our American culture has valued education, or in New England fetishized it. If you listen to Jefferson it was all about finding diamonds in the rough. Who cares about the rabble that doesn’t need it anyway, above a certain level necessary for democratic citizenship, or whatever? So you could stop when you’re 12 and have your letters and figures, strap yourself to a plow, and you’re done.

    Now basically every last kid, including literal retards, are made to sit in warehouses seven hours a day, and as often as instruction they speak of “socialization” (because without school kids never met other human beings all day), and without saying so they’re gradually taking over normal functions of parentage, family, and community. Used to be they were teaching kids to be good citizens and sit still in factories , but I don’t know what they think they’re doing now.

    In any case, there’s no reason they have to stop doing it at 18. Why not 30? Why not for freaking ever?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Everyone can get into a college, but the places at the top are more selective than ever. Despite having billions in endowments, the # of seats at Ivy U's has not really gone up since the '60s while the population has almost doubled. So they reject 9 out of 10 applicants. A little scarcity is good for keeping prices and prestige up, but any business that turned away 90% of its customers would eventually expand to fill the demand.
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  184. @JimB
    I have to agree that training is largely responsible for the white/Asian test gap. There are a denumerable number of math problems in basic geometry and algebra and a dedicated student working 45 minutes a night from seventh grade will pretty much see them all by 11th grade. In other words, given a no coaching score of 650 on the SAT, you can probably work your way to an 800.

    Frequency of Fields Medal winners is a better measure of relative math talent and given the Asian population advantage, it's interesting that whites continue to dominate. What's also interesting is how rare Indian Field Medalists are.

    I maintain the best true measure of academic talent is a challenging reading test. I think it better captures untrained learning ability.

    What’s also interesting is how rare Indian Field Medalists are.

    I’m reliably told by a former colleague that almost no one studies pure mathematics in India as an undergraduate major anymore. Almost everyone chooses to study coding or engineering, instead.

    He also noted that there is no math talent-spotting at the high school level, and college education is mostly dysfunctional and of very poor quality, other than at about a half-dozen small colleges which are the equivalents of small US liberal-arts colleges.

    My friend headed an effort to develop an in-house quant capability in India for his bulge bracket US investment bank about a decade ago. He said that contrary to his firm’s assumptions, he was simply unable to recruit sufficient numbers of maths/physics grads in India for a proposed in-house mid-office quant support facility to be based in Mumbai.

    He also said that he thinks there is scope for improvement. Apparently, a recent concerted effort to popularize tournament chess in India among young women has yielded results, with a number of Indian women achieving International Master or Grandmaster ranking—this in a country previously unknown for female chess talent.

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    • Replies: @namae nanka

    I’m reliably told by a former colleague that almost no one studies pure mathematics in India as an undergraduate major anymore.
     
    I'm not sure about no one studying pure mathematics but the best and the brightest in India go for IITs which are primarily engineering institutions and whatever little pure mathematics they face is in that context except for one or two courses in the first year which are common to all, and much dreaded since they are very different from the kind of plug and play maths which they've been accustomed to in their schooling and preparation for the Joint Entrance Examination which is a pure meritocratic hurdle for entrance to IITs(excepting the lower caste ~50% quotas of course).

    So they can certainly do better but the IIT crowd isn't exactly the type to work incessantly in academia.
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  185. @Steve Sailer
    Double pane windows cut a lot of sound.

    I've only put in four so far, but they actually make it a little quieter in the back bedroom where I don't have any yet.

    One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century.

    In the early nineties, I moved from an old New York brownstone studio apartment into a modern high-rise in which each floor was built on a massive concrete slab. The difference in sound proofing was dramatic. I lived there for a few years, and never heard any sound at all from the apartment above me or the one below, in marked contrast to the studio apartment, where it was easy to tell if the neighbors were playing the TV loud. I’m not sure what separated apartments on the same floor, but my apartment was mostly sonically isolated laterally, too.

    And you’re right. Double glazing cuts out street noise and police sirens really well. A few years later, I lived directly above a highway overpass in an Asian city, but my apartment there had double glazed windows. It was very quiet.

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  186. @European-American
    Steve, the last link is incorrect, it should be
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/02/01/race-gaps-in-sat-math-scores-are-as-big-as-ever/
    Though it doesn't seem to add much compared to the main article. Both have this doozy of a finding:

    In a perfectly equal distribution, the racial breakdown of scores ... would mirror the composition of test-takers as whole i.e. 51 percent white, 21 percent Latino, 14 percent black, and 14 percent Asian.
    ...
    we estimate that at most only 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos scored above a 750, compared to some 16,000 whites and 29,600 Asians.
     
    So at the top, there should be 51% whites and 14% Asians, instead there are 33% whites and 60% Asians. My math is not that good (I'm white), but it looks like Asians are doing four times better than they should.

    How is that not the most commented about fact? It's certainly the one I and any Asians will find the most interesting. It's easy to make jokes about "yellow privilege" or whatever, and I congratulate my Asian friends on their talent, but seriously,

    1) How does this not definitively invalidate all the arguments that society is causing racial inequality, and that we need to work harder to fix it? Or has a super-secret cabal of Asians managed to rig testing under our very noses, or are they all cheating?

    2) What are the consequences for American society if we keep importing a cognitively superior race? Is this desirable? Unavoidable if we want to compete?

    I am just stunned that this is not a bigger topic of discussion. Is it racist to say others may be superior? I guess so. Race doesn't exist, bla bla bla. Except wtf is that graph about then???

    Your maths looks fine, except “four times” (or any “times”) does not apply when comparing two distributions. Each of the two distributions of scores, in this case White test-takers and Asian test-takers, have various features such as mean, standard deviation, percentage above a fixed value, etc. but there is no obvious metric where one distribution is “four times” the other. Sorry if that is very pedantic.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    Not pedantic, thanks for the reply. I suppose I meant "four times" to apply to the top slice of the distribution, not to the whole distribution.

    If we gave a gold star to everyone in the top category, 750-800, one might naively expect each group to have a proportion of gold stars equal to their proportion in the general population. Instead, Asians get four times as many gold stars as one would expect.

    Or suppose we pick the best actors for a series of movies. I watch the movies, and I see 4 times as many Asians as I would expect. What's going on? (Well, in the case of movies, to be realistic it would of course be 4 times less Asians).

    Suppose gold stars are each group's only source of income. Then Asians come out 4 times richer than an equal distribution of income would allow. So unfair! Just because they are a little smarter...

    I guess I'm just continually amazed at the fact that a small advantage (5-15% smarter) gets magnified at the tail end (4 times more successful).
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  187. @SteveM

    An analysis of the 2013-2014 LSAT finds an average black score of 142 compared to an average white score of 153. This amounts to a black-white achievement gap of 1.06 standard deviations, even higher than that on the SAT.
     
    Whoever wrote that apparently knows nothing about statistics. That statement is meaningless. There is NO explicit correlation between a mean and a standard deviation. I.e., two empirical distributions can have the same mean but wildly different standard deviations.

    If the clueless author meant the ratio of the White:Black scores, well ratio comparisons are meaningless using a scale that is not zero based. E.g. Kelvin temperature ratios have meaning, Celsius and Fahrenheit do not other than the obvious. I.e., one item is hotter than the other. The SAT is not zero based. I can't speak to the ACT and LSAT.

    The takeaway is that using garbage statistics can result in garbage analysis.

    The analysis of distance in standard deviations between two means is very standard and reasonable; I do not see why you call it “garbage statistics.” There are three standard deviations here: the standard deviation of White scores, the standard deviation of Black scores, and the standard deviation of all scores. All three are well-defined and reasonably estimated from the data. Incidentally, means and standard deviations are population parameters not random variables — they do not have “correlation” which is a property of two random variables, not two parameters. Measuring the difference between two means as a multiple of s.d.’s is very standard, and can provide the basis for a classical hypothesis test, for example.

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  188. bomag says:
    @El Dato

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.
     
    It's "its monasteries"

    These were pretty good stores of accumulated knowledge though.

    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It's just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It's where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state's predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.

    It’s just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    The Muslim world has actively destroyed more mental achievement than probably any other culture on this planet. Their few tidbits of accomplishment are over-hyped by the apologists to lessen the horror that is in store for us all as they march on.

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    • Agree: Broski
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  189. bomag says:
    @dearieme
    When the UK was due to hand over Hong Kong to the commies, I had a notion that the UK should offer citizenship to any HKer who would fund the transfer out of the UK of families of immigrants of less desirable sorts. Unsurprisingly I didn't waste my breath explaining the merits of this scheme.

    But I offer the idea free to the US. Get those rich Chinese (and others) to fund the solution of your racial/ethnic/immigrant/etc problems in return for citizenship. As a start, you ought to make the "anchor baby" route to residence and citizenship unavailable so that citizenship becomes a usefully expensive commodity. I also commend the idea to the Ozzies; a few rich Chinese would fund the repatriation of lots of troublemakers to some patches of their continents of origin.

    Get those rich _____ to fund the solution of your racial/ethnic/immigrant/etc problems in return for citizenship… fund the repatriation of lots of troublemakers to some patches of their continents of origin.

    I’m not sure we really want wealthy foreigners, if we are trying to keep together some kind of coherent nation state.

    I doubt your plan would remove more than one percent of the invading Orcs, who would promptly be back no matter the strictures.

    We have to ultimately defend our borders in the first place, which is ever more difficult when the Orc womb is overpopulating their domains at an exponential rate. How much demographic osmotic pressure can a border ever hold back?

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  190. @gregor
    I have seen several accounts indicating that Asians tend to underperform their test scores. They do score high on the SAT-M, but they don't seem to be represented among elite mathematicians to the extent you'd think based on those scores. They do not score any higher on the LSAT and they pass the California Bar at a slightly lower rate than whites. They are also underrepresented in the upper levels of the business world.

    Right, obviously SATs and IQ are not a perfect predictor of success in any activity. In basketball, for example, while IQ is no doubt correlated with success (all other things being equal), SAT scores are a poor predictor of success, since height, physical ability, and group dynamics are more important factors.

    I bet something similar happens for business and many other activities.

    Still, we, like most societies, decide to select people primarily on IQ-related criteria for entrance into the most selective institutions of learning, and more generally into many institutions that have selection.

    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution. It wasn’t a big concern when whites were on top (also because Jews are not very visible), but now that Asians are visibly kicking everybody else’s ass in IQ in our country… Maybe this will become a more serious and very real concern, and not just an opportunity for status signaling.

    But any such correction strikes me as making only a marginal difference in outcomes. The real question is, are you OK with replacing your country’s elites with elites from another culture and race?… Awkward…

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    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Broski
    Aside from IQ, the best predictor of success in life is conscientiousness.
    , @MarkinLA
    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution.

    Well isn't this what all the whining by Asians over Ivy admissions is all about? The Asians only want GPAs and SAT scores to matter. The school doesn't want the place to be all Asian and tries to weigh other factors like community involvement or outside achievements.

    No matter what you do somebody gets screwed and somebody's extracurricular activities get ignored (probably unfairly). The Jews only want academic pursuits or letters of recommendation from other academics (uncle Shlomo) to count. Rural whites don't like that their interest in animal husbandry (Future farmers of America, 4H) is actually considered a negative by mostly urban members on the admission committee.

    , @Desiderius
    We are systematically selecting for people whose brains mature prematurely.
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  191. biz says:
    @OhSure
    Again, you completely omit Jewish bigotry and racism. As if it's a natural right to have your tribe at 25% in Harvard even as SAT scores indicate it should be closer to 5-7%. Read the 2012 Unz article on higher ed again.

    The shares are only being kept up because of ethnocentrism and whites and Asians pay the price.

    Why are you so desperate to shield them? Instead you talk down on Asians. Asians didn't institute this system, Jews have. Yet to you they are perpetual victims.

    It's really amazing how much of a slave you are to Jewish interests, how much you deny the racism which keeps whites and Asians out. You're either a Jewish troll or a goywhore.

    As has been discussed before, that 25% number is probably not correct as it was based on unverifiable metrics such as Hillel estimates, while the 5-7% number is almost certainly not correct, because the technique of surname analysis failed to accurately reproduce the known proportion of Jews in some subsample of high SAT scores. Here are the gory details: https://sites.google.com/site/nuritbaytch/

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  192. Jack D says:
    @Foreign Expert
    What's the story with the Nigerians? They seem to be smarter than the average bear.

    It’s not all Nigerians, it’s mostly those from the Igbo tribe which for some reason is smarter than most African tribes. Out of 175 million people in Nigeria, maybe 30 million are Igbo (aka Ibo).

    https://newtelegraphonline.com/news/igbos-brilliant-black-africa-race/

    Anytime you read a story about a black teenager who has been accepted to every single Ivy League school, he/she is usually an Igbo. Now if Igbos were from China then they would just be ho-hum, but blacks with high IQs are like the Holy Grail to American universities. It’s just one more job that (black) Americans won’t do.

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  193. NOTA says:

    It’s weird–we have all these outrage of the moment stories that get a lot of attention (rioting idiots vs Milo, protests vs Trump’s executive order), but probably none of those stories matter very much, except maybe in terms of today’s political fights. And then we have stuff on the IQ gap or demographic trends, which are pretty much going to shape our grandchildrens’ world, and they get little attention even though they’re like 100x as important. It’s like we’re riding on the Titanic, and any discussion of iceberg distribution in the North Atlantic gets little attention, because everyone’s really upset over the outrageous colors the captain wants to repaint the deck chairs.

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    • Replies: @anon
    the media is owned by the oligarchs benefiting from the current course - so they deflect attention
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  194. syonredux says:
    @Foreign Expert
    What's the story with the Nigerians? They seem to be smarter than the average bear.

    What’s the story with the Nigerians? They seem to be smarter than the average bear.

    Well, only if the bears in question are Black……

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  195. @Steve Sailer
    Double pane windows cut a lot of sound.

    I've only put in four so far, but they actually make it a little quieter in the back bedroom where I don't have any yet.

    One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century.

    The other point is air conditioning in the cities.

    When I first moved to NYC I came directly from the small town in which I was raised. It was early September, and, in my dorm, the windows had to be kept open because it was miserably hot. An elevated subway was less than a block from my dorm.

    I didn’t sleep for three nights. I couldn’t understand how anybody could sleep — though, on the fourth night, I managed to.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Another thing I learned quickly, which simply amazed me at the time, was that the subways in NYC run all night.
    , @Jim
    When I was a graduate student living in one of the Columbia dorms long long ago I remember being lulled to sleep at night by the sound of gunfire coming from Harlem.
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  196. Jack D says:
    @guest
    How long will it be before that gets the full, open anti-discrimination, inclusivity treatment? Because there's money to be made letting everyone into college; if not from the students' parents, then from the state. Stupid people are easier to teach, so long as you don't care whether they learn anything, or even show up.

    I'm making this up as I go, but now it occurs to me that this is basically what happened to K-12 school. Once most people never went to school at all, of course. But our American culture has valued education, or in New England fetishized it. If you listen to Jefferson it was all about finding diamonds in the rough. Who cares about the rabble that doesn't need it anyway, above a certain level necessary for democratic citizenship, or whatever? So you could stop when you're 12 and have your letters and figures, strap yourself to a plow, and you're done.

    Now basically every last kid, including literal retards, are made to sit in warehouses seven hours a day, and as often as instruction they speak of "socialization" (because without school kids never met other human beings all day), and without saying so they're gradually taking over normal functions of parentage, family, and community. Used to be they were teaching kids to be good citizens and sit still in factories , but I don't know what they think they're doing now.

    In any case, there's no reason they have to stop doing it at 18. Why not 30? Why not for freaking ever?

    Everyone can get into a college, but the places at the top are more selective than ever. Despite having billions in endowments, the # of seats at Ivy U’s has not really gone up since the ’60s while the population has almost doubled. So they reject 9 out of 10 applicants. A little scarcity is good for keeping prices and prestige up, but any business that turned away 90% of its customers would eventually expand to fill the demand.

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  197. @candid_observer
    The other point is air conditioning in the cities.

    When I first moved to NYC I came directly from the small town in which I was raised. It was early September, and, in my dorm, the windows had to be kept open because it was miserably hot. An elevated subway was less than a block from my dorm.

    I didn't sleep for three nights. I couldn't understand how anybody could sleep -- though, on the fourth night, I managed to.

    Another thing I learned quickly, which simply amazed me at the time, was that the subways in NYC run all night.

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  198. Jack D says:
    @Reginald Maplethorp
    Just for fun, I tried plugging in the Brookings racial fractions for test-takers as well as iSteve's numbers for racial IQ means and variances.

    From some Google searching I estimated that a 750-800 SAT Math scorers would have about 135+ IQ.

    What I would guess for the racial makeup of 750-800 scorers just from IQ distributions alone (for IQ 135+) would be:

    White: 34.4%
    Hispanic: 1.6%
    Asian: 60.4%
    Black: 0.4%

    The numbers Brookings gives in that bracket are:

    White: 33%
    Hispanic: 5%
    Asian: 60%
    Black: 2%

    For comparison, how about an IQ 112+ or 500-550 score? My numbers and the Brookings numbers in parentheses:

    White: 53.3% (60%)
    Hispanic: 6.7% (19%)
    Asian: 34.5% (10%)
    Black: 2.5% (10%)

    This rough La Griffe du Lion-style model has good agreement for Whites and Asians, but the apparent over-performance of Blacks and Hispanics in this model probably results from my rough and very quick estimates for IQ to SAT conversion factors and IQ mean/variance estimates.

    But overall I'm pretty pleased with the performance of this model relative to the time spent on it.

    Probably because either the College Board or Brookings are fudging their numbers and adopting a very broad (or as they say “conservative”) method for counting who is “black” and “Hispanic”. So a 100% Castilian Cuban or Lebanese Christian Mexican who should really get counted in the white category gets put down as Hispanic and someone who is 1/2 or more white gets counted as 100% black (whereas mulattoes tend to have IQ somewhere between black and white on average).

    Immigrant blacks are another special case because they are a selected group. We see this with S. Asians – overall S. Asian IQ is no great shakes but in the US we get a selected group of smarter Indians and since they have a billion people they have a large pool to select from.

    An illustrative anecdote. When my daughter went away to college (a well known technical u. in Mass.), she extolled to me the virtues of her “black” friend who was just as smart as any white person, thus proving my HBD notions wrong. When I finally met this black genius, he was about as black as Benjamin Jealous and it turned out he was the product of a marriage between an upper class Haitian woman and a Frenchman. The mother had taken off and he had been raised by his very strict French father. But for SAT and college admission purposes, he was “black”.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "When I finally met this black genius, he was about as black as Benjamin Jealous"

    Benjamin Jealous is genetically more European than the vast majority of Hispanics in The U.S. He is 80 percent European while the average Hispanic in this country is only 60 percent European.
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  199. namae nanka says: • Website
    @Old fogey
    Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?

    Indeed, it’s alarming and I thought it’s so when it’s asians 1:1 with whites in that range.

    It’s too bad that environmentalists don’t get hoisted on their petard since there’s ample ammo for the other side, for e.g. rich black kids scoring worse than poor white kids on SAT or this isteve article,

    For example, above is the 2013 federal National Assessment of Educational Progress scores for 12th graders in Reading. Blacks who are the children of college graduates average 274, which is the same as whites who are the children of high school dropouts.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/applying-occams-razor-vs-asserting-occams-racist/

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  200. Jack D says:
    @cthulhu
    I graduated high school in the early '80s in the mid-south part of the US; the local teachers' college hosted the regional ACT exam, but students wanting to take the SAT had to go to the major state university on a late fall Saturday - that was a two hours drive for me. But I had qualified as a National Merit semi-finalist, so I had to take the SAT to continue that process. I'd estimate that maybe 5% of the eligible high school seniors took the SAT, and more than 75% took the ACT.

    And I didn't even get the damned scholarship; I made National Merit Finalist, but didn't get the main prize. This was before test prep classes, my high school didn't even have a guidance counselor, and I knew absolutely nobody who had taken the SAT. I assumed it would be like the ACT. Bad assumption; it was a LOT different, especially the math portion. I ended up in the middle of the 90th decile on the SAT, but my ACT score was in the very high 90th decile; that math section - usually my strong suit - did me in (relatively speaking).

    I have no idea why the ACT and SAT were so different at that point in time.

    In recent years the SAT and ACT were very similar (in terms of the scores you could expect to get after converting from 1 to the other), to the point where most colleges will now allow you to take 1 and not the other and they just convert the score to their favored test (SAT on the coasts, ACT in the middle). However, some daylight may have opened up in that the new SAT is significantly easier, given that the guessing penalty has been eliminated and there are now 4 choices instead of 5. At certain levels, scores are now up to 100 points higher on the new version.

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    • Agree: Triumph104
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  201. namae nanka says: • Website
    @PiltdownMan

    What’s also interesting is how rare Indian Field Medalists are.
     
    I'm reliably told by a former colleague that almost no one studies pure mathematics in India as an undergraduate major anymore. Almost everyone chooses to study coding or engineering, instead.

    He also noted that there is no math talent-spotting at the high school level, and college education is mostly dysfunctional and of very poor quality, other than at about a half-dozen small colleges which are the equivalents of small US liberal-arts colleges.

    My friend headed an effort to develop an in-house quant capability in India for his bulge bracket US investment bank about a decade ago. He said that contrary to his firm's assumptions, he was simply unable to recruit sufficient numbers of maths/physics grads in India for a proposed in-house mid-office quant support facility to be based in Mumbai.

    He also said that he thinks there is scope for improvement. Apparently, a recent concerted effort to popularize tournament chess in India among young women has yielded results, with a number of Indian women achieving International Master or Grandmaster ranking—this in a country previously unknown for female chess talent.

    I’m reliably told by a former colleague that almost no one studies pure mathematics in India as an undergraduate major anymore.

    I’m not sure about no one studying pure mathematics but the best and the brightest in India go for IITs which are primarily engineering institutions and whatever little pure mathematics they face is in that context except for one or two courses in the first year which are common to all, and much dreaded since they are very different from the kind of plug and play maths which they’ve been accustomed to in their schooling and preparation for the Joint Entrance Examination which is a pure meritocratic hurdle for entrance to IITs(excepting the lower caste ~50% quotas of course).

    So they can certainly do better but the IIT crowd isn’t exactly the type to work incessantly in academia.

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  202. Jack D says:
    @HA
    >"Why is no one concerned about the Asian-White gap?"

    My guess is because "whites" include a fair number of miscounted Latinos and other "miscellaneous" categories, and citizens from parts of the country where meth increasingly serves as both recreation and employment. The latter group is already a matter concern in that they're likely the same very whites whose dads and grand-dads are offing themselves so as to reduce overall life expectancy rates.

    Oddly enough, it seems that swapping out Christianity for the holy trinity of sex/drugs/rock-n-roll hasn't worked out as well as the 60's and 70's assured us that it would. Who would've guessed?

    Moreover, once one factors out that problematic group, I'm guessing the gap in question will shrink substantially , and to the extent that readers are confident that their children are not in the group bringing the curve down, it's less of a cause for worry.

    (You see, Jack D? I'm allowed to dis the meth-heads among the whites because rather than sneering at them, I actually recognize that they, too, are victims, as much as anyone else in that group whose troubles are supposed to be our concern.)

    I don’t buy the “victim” thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points. People need to take responsibility for their own fates. Your parents are meth heads and you’re in a dead end town? Get on a bus and get the hell out of Dodge. It’s doable. A good % of American Presidents had drunks for fathers.

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    • Replies: @cthulhu


    Your parents are meth heads and you’re in a dead end town? Get on a bus and get the hell out of Dodge.

     

    The Bell Curve also makes this point, that people with higher IQs generally seem to make it despite socioeconomic circumstances; this is why IQ correlates better with success than socioeconomic standing. My parents weren't meth heads - they were actually smart and small-town successful - but for what I wanted to do, that small town was a total dead end; lots of prejudice against smart nerds who didn't have the social skills to hide it - so I got the hell out as soon as I graduated high school and never looked back. Now I live in one of the most desirable areas of coastal SoCal, and just don't talk politics with my neighbors :-)
    , @HA
    ">I don’t buy the “victim” thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points."

    Coming from you, that's especially....well, special. Does that high IQ you speak of come with a side of enhanced self-awareness? I'm going to guess "no".

    In any case, if you spend your life sneering at others you regard as your inferiors, be they "deplorables", or, in your words, envious "drunken local peasantry", don't be surprised when reality rips you a new one. THEN come tell us how you don't buy the "victim" thing.

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  203. anonguy says:
    @Reginald Maplethorp
    Just for fun, I tried plugging in the Brookings racial fractions for test-takers as well as iSteve's numbers for racial IQ means and variances.

    From some Google searching I estimated that a 750-800 SAT Math scorers would have about 135+ IQ.

    What I would guess for the racial makeup of 750-800 scorers just from IQ distributions alone (for IQ 135+) would be:

    White: 34.4%
    Hispanic: 1.6%
    Asian: 60.4%
    Black: 0.4%

    The numbers Brookings gives in that bracket are:

    White: 33%
    Hispanic: 5%
    Asian: 60%
    Black: 2%

    For comparison, how about an IQ 112+ or 500-550 score? My numbers and the Brookings numbers in parentheses:

    White: 53.3% (60%)
    Hispanic: 6.7% (19%)
    Asian: 34.5% (10%)
    Black: 2.5% (10%)

    This rough La Griffe du Lion-style model has good agreement for Whites and Asians, but the apparent over-performance of Blacks and Hispanics in this model probably results from my rough and very quick estimates for IQ to SAT conversion factors and IQ mean/variance estimates.

    But overall I'm pretty pleased with the performance of this model relative to the time spent on it.

    From some Google searching I estimated that a 750-800 SAT Math scorers would have about 135+ IQ.

    That is from current SAT, no? Pre-norming, I think that SAT Math range is associated with 150+ IQ

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    • Replies: @res
    Depends on the verbal score. This site has various conversions: https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx
    That link is for the pre-1995 SAT
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  204. MBlanc46 says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    Standardized tests were originally developed, IIRC, to reduce bias in admissions from attending elite high schools and prep schools: a student from Grand Island, Nebraska, had a chance to get into Princeton based on a high SAT score even if he attended the Grand Island Community School District. The disparate racial results are simply a demonstration of what people have known for centuries: some groups of people are collectively smarter than others.

    We knew it for centuries. We no longer know it.

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  205. cthulhu says:
    @Jack D
    I don't buy the "victim" thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points. People need to take responsibility for their own fates. Your parents are meth heads and you're in a dead end town? Get on a bus and get the hell out of Dodge. It's doable. A good % of American Presidents had drunks for fathers.

    Your parents are meth heads and you’re in a dead end town? Get on a bus and get the hell out of Dodge.

    The Bell Curve also makes this point, that people with higher IQs generally seem to make it despite socioeconomic circumstances; this is why IQ correlates better with success than socioeconomic standing. My parents weren’t meth heads – they were actually smart and small-town successful – but for what I wanted to do, that small town was a total dead end; lots of prejudice against smart nerds who didn’t have the social skills to hide it – so I got the hell out as soon as I graduated high school and never looked back. Now I live in one of the most desirable areas of coastal SoCal, and just don’t talk politics with my neighbors :-)

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  206. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “It’s not all Nigerians, it’s mostly those from the Igbo tribe which for some reason is smarter than most African tribes.”

    Wikipedia, Igbo people, traditional society:

    “…the Niger River has provided an easy means of communication and unity amongst the Igbo natives on both sides, as well as promoted ancient trade and movement of peoples between Igboland and the rest of the world…

    …The Igbo people are one of the largest ethnic groups in Africa…

    …many African Americans and Afro Caribbeans are believed to be partially of Igbo descent…

    …The Niger coast was an area of contact between African and European traders from the years 1434–1807. The Portuguese were the first traders, then the Dutch and finally the British. Prior to European contact, Igbo trade routes stretched as far as Mecca, Medina and Jeddah on the continent.”

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  207. @Broski
    Not just Filipinos and Pacific Islanders, but Hmong, Viet, Cambodians, Thai etc. are not that smart. In my experience they tend to be hard working like more northerly Asians, though (with the exception of the Islanders and probably the Hmong).

    In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it.

    http://caaspp.cde.ca.gov/sb2016/Search

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it."


    Many people here on The Unz inaccurately paint Filipinos Americans as an underclass ethnic group but their average household income is higher than that of the average White American household.

    So if Filipino Americans are an underclass demographic what does that make White Americans? A bone crushing poverty demographic.

    Filipinos in The Bay Area, Sacramento, Los Angeles, and San Diego metropolitan areas on average tend to live in quite nice looking suburban homes that people associate with the American dream.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Filipinos scored the same as whites

     

    What is included in the Californian "white" category? Armenian immigrants? Arabs? Miscategorized Hispanics?
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  208. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “So they can certainly do better but the IIT crowd isn’t exactly the type to work incessantly in academia.”

    An IIT professor I knew was shocked when, during the late downturn, they couldn’t place all their CS graduates overseas. It was understood that the department existed as a way for wealthy Indians to get their children overseas and make lots of money. Kind of unfair to all the indians who have to pay for the public system. Naturally, graduate research suffers extensively in such an environment. The few graduate students around are typically those who didn’t get accepted into an overseas school or think they have a shot at somewhere better and are waiting around for a year to try again. The students often socially look down on the professors and sometimes act somewhat imperious towards them.

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  209. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “…One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century.”

    Perhaps a substantial part of the Flynn effect last century was due to the spread of affordable coil-spring mattresses that kids could sleep on?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Not impossible ...
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  210. @peter johnson
    Your maths looks fine, except "four times" (or any "times") does not apply when comparing two distributions. Each of the two distributions of scores, in this case White test-takers and Asian test-takers, have various features such as mean, standard deviation, percentage above a fixed value, etc. but there is no obvious metric where one distribution is "four times" the other. Sorry if that is very pedantic.

    Not pedantic, thanks for the reply. I suppose I meant “four times” to apply to the top slice of the distribution, not to the whole distribution.

    If we gave a gold star to everyone in the top category, 750-800, one might naively expect each group to have a proportion of gold stars equal to their proportion in the general population. Instead, Asians get four times as many gold stars as one would expect.

    Or suppose we pick the best actors for a series of movies. I watch the movies, and I see 4 times as many Asians as I would expect. What’s going on? (Well, in the case of movies, to be realistic it would of course be 4 times less Asians).

    Suppose gold stars are each group’s only source of income. Then Asians come out 4 times richer than an equal distribution of income would allow. So unfair! Just because they are a little smarter…

    I guess I’m just continually amazed at the fact that a small advantage (5-15% smarter) gets magnified at the tail end (4 times more successful).

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    • Replies: @peter johnson
    Yes that makes sense -- so a randomly chosen Asian is four times as likely to lie above the 750 threshold as a randomly chosen White. That works, although of course the multiplier "four times" depends strongly upon the chosen threshold. But yes I see what you meant now.
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  211. lavoisier says: • Website
    @European-American
    Steve, the last link is incorrect, it should be
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2017/02/01/race-gaps-in-sat-math-scores-are-as-big-as-ever/
    Though it doesn't seem to add much compared to the main article. Both have this doozy of a finding:

    In a perfectly equal distribution, the racial breakdown of scores ... would mirror the composition of test-takers as whole i.e. 51 percent white, 21 percent Latino, 14 percent black, and 14 percent Asian.
    ...
    we estimate that at most only 1,000 blacks and 2,400 Latinos scored above a 750, compared to some 16,000 whites and 29,600 Asians.
     
    So at the top, there should be 51% whites and 14% Asians, instead there are 33% whites and 60% Asians. My math is not that good (I'm white), but it looks like Asians are doing four times better than they should.

    How is that not the most commented about fact? It's certainly the one I and any Asians will find the most interesting. It's easy to make jokes about "yellow privilege" or whatever, and I congratulate my Asian friends on their talent, but seriously,

    1) How does this not definitively invalidate all the arguments that society is causing racial inequality, and that we need to work harder to fix it? Or has a super-secret cabal of Asians managed to rig testing under our very noses, or are they all cheating?

    2) What are the consequences for American society if we keep importing a cognitively superior race? Is this desirable? Unavoidable if we want to compete?

    I am just stunned that this is not a bigger topic of discussion. Is it racist to say others may be superior? I guess so. Race doesn't exist, bla bla bla. Except wtf is that graph about then???

    I would agree that this information is discouraging for white folk, but I think the information has to be viewed in context. The Asian-American population in the United States is a cognitive elite and often represents the bright end of the Bell curve. This is true because they are immigrants to the West, and study after study has documented the cognitive superiority of the immigrant over the non-immigrant on average coming from these regions of the world.

    However, I think the disparity also has a lot to do with the fact that our society is dumbed down and academic excellence is no longer as popular as it once was. At the risk of generalizing too much, we are not as hungry for knowledge as we once were.

    Evidence can be presented simply by looking at high school textbooks on subjects in math and science from the 1950s and these same subjects today. There is a definite “dumbing down” occurring in our educational system and a lot of it is probably derivative of the Cultural Marxism and egalitarianism that has infected our society. I picked up a high school physics book the other day from 1958 and was shocked at how rigorous it was. In fact, it was well beyond the content of my first semester class in mechanics taken at one of the top Universities in the United States in the 1990s.

    But I would not take anything away from these Asian-Americans. They are smart cookies and they are kicking our asses academically. And by the way, the incidence of National Merit Finalists suggests that they are kicking Jewish American assess too.

    Time to get rid of the SAT!!

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams

    But I would not take anything away from these Asian-Americans. They are smart cookies and they are kicking our asses academically. And by the way, the incidence of National Merit Finalists suggests that they are kicking Jewish American assess too.
     
    Screw 'em. They're parasites.

    Even if they're not cheating massively (and they are), we owe them nothing. We have no obligation - moral, legal, or otherwise - to allow them to swarm into our country and dominate our institutions. Our country and our universities exist for our benefit. We shouldn't need any reason to exclude them other than they are outsiders and are not entitled to the fruits of our ancestors' labor.

    Society is not a mechanism for transferring wealth and power to high-IQ carpetbaggers. It is (or should be) a contract governing the relations of a folk united by a common ancestry, heritage, and culture.

    On my most recent visit to my alma mater, I was struck by the overwhelming numbers of Asians (and Arabs).

    To be sure, I had plenty of foreign classmates when I was in school, but there are a hell of a lot more Asians walking around campus than there were 15 years ago.

    (Hijab-wearers were a rare sight then; they're everywhere now.)

    Why do we let these outsiders come over here and dominate our institutions? (Answer: They pay full out-of-state tuition.)

    I'm a white guy. I want to live in a white society that actively promotes the interests of white folks. Barring that, I want to live in a white society where other ethnic groups' dysfunction is kept to a minimum.

    (That being said, I wouldn't want to live in, say, Appalachia. Or even Idaho.)

    In principle, the idea of meritocracy benefits any society; in practice, it is useful to whites only to the extent that it allows the smartest, most-competent whites to ascend to the top in fields where intelligence and competency are key. Even if those at the top of the academic-performance game are not white, I'd rather have whites running a white society than non-whites presiding over a multicultural salad (toilet) bowl.

    (Fortunately, there are enough high-IQ whites to ensure that the ablest are plenty smart. America has no shortage of intelligent white folks. Even if we exclude the Jews from our definition of "whiteness," we still have a large - and largely-undeveloped - talent pool from which to draw.)

    Depending on how narrowly one defines "white," it is likely that many Jews, mischlings, and quarterlings will end up at the top of a meritocratic system. The idea that Jewish domination of (or at least vast over-representation in) certain fields is inevitable due to their greater innate intelligence bothers me. I'm not a Jew-hater, but I'm not happy about the fact that Jews have such a prominent position in our society.

    Honestly, I'd rather live in a society where white goyim dominate everything. That's not to say that I want to start building ovens; it is to say that I favor my kind over others, and Jews are not my kind. I don't resent Jews for favoring their kind over mine.

    Then again, if I had to choose between living in a society dominated by Jews and living in one dominated by Asians, I'd pick the former in a heartbeat.

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  212. I’m late to this (had grades and a new semester start off), but my lord, the crap being spewed.’

    1) I’m not sure why 200-300s were left off the list, but what many of you don’t seem to know is that a negative raw score used to be possible. So all the negative raw scores through to 0 still got 200.

    2) The new SAT, the one that began last year, is significant harder than the one that lived from 2005 through 2015, which was absurdly easy. The College Board was trying to close the achievement gap and make some money, so it rolled the old writing test into the main SAT, making it longer, then it reduced the number of each questions in all sections, making it shorter, and again, the achievement gap maintenance meant that the questions removed were all the more difficult ones. Thus simultaneously making the test longer but each section shorter and easier. The new one is far more difficult than any prior SAT. (I wrote about the 2005 changes here and the new test here. BTW, all the data discussed in Brookings is on the 2005-2015 test.

    3) Any idiot who thinks removing the guessing penalty does anything to make the test easier or harder ought not to be even playing in the game here.

    4) The ACT and the SAT do have the same general scoring percentiles, but it’s not uncommon for individuals in both the high scoring and lower scoring percentiles to have a significant preference. My son’s SAT score was 2000; his ACT converted score was 2250. I’ve also known kids to get a high 300 on SAT math and hit something closer to 500 (converted) on ACT Math.

    5) Duh, there’s more than one group of Asians. This has been thoroughly discussed for decades, so why would anyone talk about it like a big discovery?

    6) From what I’ve tried to ascertain, the College Board resolutely refuses to make public whether it is reporting on US students only when it breaks down by race. And it also refuses to release averages for its international scores by country. That’s because it’s worried that the scores will look suspicious and add to the general weight of the Reuters reporting on College Board and Chinese corruption, both here and overseas.

    7) The “growing” Asian dominance is in part because of higher IQ average, but given the relative ease of the SAT, a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians–the “smart” or “fancy” kind.

    8) Meet a white, black, or Hispanic kids with scores over 700 on the “old” SAT, they will be impressive. Asian kids may or may not be. I’ve met some incredibly ordinary Chinese Americans with not an original thought in their heads who have straight 2400s.

    9) the reason that colleges discriminate against Asians: 1) they cheat 2) while there are many individually terrific Asians, overwhelmingly you get boring students with one question: “Will this be on the test?” 3) Culturally, their notion of academic excellence is diametrically opposed to the American, even western one. 4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I’ll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren’t bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don’t like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.

    11) I’m pretty sure David Coleman changed the SAT because he wants to take over the high school test market, not because he wants to be the college admissions test. There have been several shocking examples of states dumping the ACT , which they’d used for decades in favor of the new, untested SAT. People are wondering why. There’s something hinky going on.

    12) I wrote about the scarcity of high black SAT scores nearly four years ago. The percentiles by race have been available every year for some pretty simple math.

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    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Excellent information. Please elaborate on what happens to the schools described in #10 above.
    , @Triumph104

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I’ll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren’t bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don’t like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.
     
    New York City's SHSAT (Specialized High School Admissions Test) is designed to make sure that students who are gifted in at least one area (or both, of course) are admitted. Elite colleges select students the same way, more by talent than test score.

    "Last year, for instance, a student with a 99 percentile score in math and 49 percentile in verbal would have been admitted to Stuyvesant High School -- the most coveted specialized school -- but a student with a 97 in math and 92 in verbal would not.

    As a result, test-prep tutors who understand how the test is scored advise their students to spend as much time as possible not where they are weakest, but on their stronger subject."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/12/nyregion/admission-tests-scoring-quirk-throws-balance-into-question.html?_r=0

    New York City public schools are 17% Asian, 26% black, 41% Hispanic, and 15% white.

    Number and ethnicity of SHSAT test-takers 2015-2016:
    8062 Asian, 5914 black, 6070 Hispanic, 4729 White

    Distribution of offers of admission 2015-2016:
    53.7% Asian, 4.1% black, 6.3% Hispanic, 27.1% white

    http://parentsofnyteens.blogspot.com/2016/03/shsat-results-by-race-2015-2016.html

    Asians are most likely to take the SHSAT, receive an offer of admission, and accept an offer.

    , @Twinkie

    a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians–the “smart” or “fancy” kind.
     
    Physician, heal thyself:

    but my lord, the crap being spewed.’
     
    As for the following:

    Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don’t like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools. [Boldface mine.]
     
    How would you know? You are not one of the "rich whites." Stop projecting your hangups.

    I do happen to know quite a few rich people and many of them indeed do not like competition for their children, especially from their socio-economic inferiors. That's just human nature.

    Specialized high schools in NYC are very popular with aspiring middle class and low class parents who have no means of getting their children into astronomically expensive prep schools in the area (except a few high caliber NAM students who are given scholarships). It just so happens that a bulk of the high IQ students with moderate income parents in NYC are East and South Asians, mostly immigrants. Indeed, there is still a sizable Eastern European immigrant contingent at these schools, because the same IQ-income dynamic is present with them. Put another way, when you compare the economic backgrounds of that white 15% and the Asian 7%, you will find that the backgrounds are not identical or even similar.

    Rich parents, white or not, generally flee these high IQ public schools for prep schools, which have always offered an easier - more "connected" - path to the Ivy League, that is if you could afford them. Have you actually seen what the prep schools in NYC look like? They are not exactly devoid of Asians. It's just that these Asians tend to also come from rich families who can afford the tuitions as the white students do. And that's not just NYC. Take a look at Exeter, Andover, etc.
    , @Twinkie

    4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.
     
    http://harvardpolitics.com/harvard/culture-behind-asian-donations-u-s-universities/

    On September 8, Harvard University received the largest alumni donation in its 378-year history when alumnus Gerald Chan gave a whopping $350 million to the School of Public Health...

    According to a Wall Street Journal analysis of U.S. Department of Education data, Hong Kong has become the top international source of large gifts to U.S. colleges. As a matter of fact, Hong Kong donations make up 17 percent of the world’s total donations to U.S. universities. Both China and Hong Kong figure prominently in the list of top ten sources of donations to U.S. colleges from January 2007 to November 2013. Hong Kong is first, with $181 million worth of donations given to U.S. colleges. China is eighth, at $60.4 million. Furthermore, the biggest beneficiaries of these donations are elite colleges in the U.S., such as Princeton, Yale, Stanford, the University of California at Berkeley, and Harvard...

    From the data collected from a study conducted by the Wall Street Journal in 2014, it is clear that people from China and Hong Kong do give generously to U.S. universities. Billionaire and Hong Kong resident Gordon Wu donated $100 million to Princeton in 1995. Ronnie Chan (Gerald Chan’s brother) pledged $20 million to the University of Southern California in September of this year. This trend holds true in the rest of China as well. In 2010, Zhang Lei of Hillhouse Capital Group gave $8,888,888 in cash to the Yale School of Management, and gave an additional $3.9 million to Yale in 2013. More recently, SOHO China’s founders Zhang Xin and Pan Shiyi gave a $15 million gift to Harvard in July of this year. And these cases are not anomalies. Hong Kong residents account for a total of 163 disclosed gifts during the 2007-13 period, with an average donation of $1.1 million.
     
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  213. Broski says:
    @European-American
    Right, obviously SATs and IQ are not a perfect predictor of success in any activity. In basketball, for example, while IQ is no doubt correlated with success (all other things being equal), SAT scores are a poor predictor of success, since height, physical ability, and group dynamics are more important factors.

    I bet something similar happens for business and many other activities.

    Still, we, like most societies, decide to select people primarily on IQ-related criteria for entrance into the most selective institutions of learning, and more generally into many institutions that have selection.

    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution. It wasn't a big concern when whites were on top (also because Jews are not very visible), but now that Asians are visibly kicking everybody else's ass in IQ in our country... Maybe this will become a more serious and very real concern, and not just an opportunity for status signaling.

    But any such correction strikes me as making only a marginal difference in outcomes. The real question is, are you OK with replacing your country's elites with elites from another culture and race?... Awkward...

    Aside from IQ, the best predictor of success in life is conscientiousness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    yes - underlooked imo
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  214. MarkinLA says:
    @European-American
    Right, obviously SATs and IQ are not a perfect predictor of success in any activity. In basketball, for example, while IQ is no doubt correlated with success (all other things being equal), SAT scores are a poor predictor of success, since height, physical ability, and group dynamics are more important factors.

    I bet something similar happens for business and many other activities.

    Still, we, like most societies, decide to select people primarily on IQ-related criteria for entrance into the most selective institutions of learning, and more generally into many institutions that have selection.

    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution. It wasn't a big concern when whites were on top (also because Jews are not very visible), but now that Asians are visibly kicking everybody else's ass in IQ in our country... Maybe this will become a more serious and very real concern, and not just an opportunity for status signaling.

    But any such correction strikes me as making only a marginal difference in outcomes. The real question is, are you OK with replacing your country's elites with elites from another culture and race?... Awkward...

    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution.

    Well isn’t this what all the whining by Asians over Ivy admissions is all about? The Asians only want GPAs and SAT scores to matter. The school doesn’t want the place to be all Asian and tries to weigh other factors like community involvement or outside achievements.

    No matter what you do somebody gets screwed and somebody’s extracurricular activities get ignored (probably unfairly). The Jews only want academic pursuits or letters of recommendation from other academics (uncle Shlomo) to count. Rural whites don’t like that their interest in animal husbandry (Future farmers of America, 4H) is actually considered a negative by mostly urban members on the admission committee.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Well isn’t this what all the whining by Asians over Ivy admissions is all about? The Asians only want GPAs and SAT scores to matter. The school doesn’t want the place to be all Asian and tries to weigh other factors like community involvement or outside achievements.
     
    There is no evidence that Asian students have lower "community involvement" or "outside achievement" than students of other race/ethnicity.

    And it's no more whining than similar bemoaning from "flyover country" rural, non-Jewish white students of high caliber who have trouble getting into these top universities.

    It's just that they are directing their fire/anger at the wrong target.
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  215. @Steve Sailer
    Double pane windows cut a lot of sound.

    I've only put in four so far, but they actually make it a little quieter in the back bedroom where I don't have any yet.

    One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century.

    I sleep well now after purchasing a Sound Screen (aka Sleep Mate) white noise machine. I turn the heat off in the evenings to experience the natural overnight decrease in temperature. I sleep with two or three thin quilts with polyester batting, mostly covering my feet. I tend to wake up the same time each morning without an alarm clock.

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  216. HA says:
    @Jack D
    I don't buy the "victim" thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points. People need to take responsibility for their own fates. Your parents are meth heads and you're in a dead end town? Get on a bus and get the hell out of Dodge. It's doable. A good % of American Presidents had drunks for fathers.

    >I don’t buy the “victim” thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points.

    Coming from you, that’s especially….well, special. Does that high IQ you speak of come with a side of enhanced self-awareness? I’m going to guess “no”.

    In any case, if you spend your life sneering at others you regard as your inferiors, be they “deplorables”, or, in your words, envious “drunken local peasantry”, don’t be surprised when reality rips you a new one. THEN come tell us how you don’t buy the “victim” thing.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is one of the strange creepy things about the internet - I tossed off a comment half in jest 2 years ago that i didn't even remember and you have nursed this flame of grievance like a precious thing - did I touch a nerve?
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  217. Pat Boyle says:

    The value of a traditional degree was driven home to me when after the divorce I had to apply for a home loan to get a mortgage on the house. I had good test scores and a graduate degree from a good school that I had attended on a full academic scholarship. I took mostly math courses in grad school. I had had a couple fellowships and other academic honors too.

    But the bank wasn’t impressed or even interested. I was surprised to learn that they were very interested in my many Microsoft certificates. So I didn’t show them my diplomas but they made me bring in my Microsoft (and Novell) documents.

    In what was an important proof of my future employability my industry certificates were critical while my academic credentials were worthless. This was more than ten years ago. It seems to be a trend. Traditional academic credentials are becoming worthless.

    Microsoft or Cisco don’t include a race category on its qualification tests.

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  218. @education realist
    I'm late to this (had grades and a new semester start off), but my lord, the crap being spewed.'

    1) I'm not sure why 200-300s were left off the list, but what many of you don't seem to know is that a negative raw score used to be possible. So all the negative raw scores through to 0 still got 200.

    2) The new SAT, the one that began last year, is significant harder than the one that lived from 2005 through 2015, which was absurdly easy. The College Board was trying to close the achievement gap and make some money, so it rolled the old writing test into the main SAT, making it longer, then it reduced the number of each questions in all sections, making it shorter, and again, the achievement gap maintenance meant that the questions removed were all the more difficult ones. Thus simultaneously making the test longer but each section shorter and easier. The new one is far more difficult than any prior SAT. (I wrote about the 2005 changes here and the new test here. BTW, all the data discussed in Brookings is on the 2005-2015 test.

    3) Any idiot who thinks removing the guessing penalty does anything to make the test easier or harder ought not to be even playing in the game here.

    4) The ACT and the SAT do have the same general scoring percentiles, but it's not uncommon for individuals in both the high scoring and lower scoring percentiles to have a significant preference. My son's SAT score was 2000; his ACT converted score was 2250. I've also known kids to get a high 300 on SAT math and hit something closer to 500 (converted) on ACT Math.

    5) Duh, there's more than one group of Asians. This has been thoroughly discussed for decades, so why would anyone talk about it like a big discovery?

    6) From what I've tried to ascertain, the College Board resolutely refuses to make public whether it is reporting on US students only when it breaks down by race. And it also refuses to release averages for its international scores by country. That's because it's worried that the scores will look suspicious and add to the general weight of the Reuters reporting on College Board and Chinese corruption, both here and overseas.

    7) The "growing" Asian dominance is in part because of higher IQ average, but given the relative ease of the SAT, a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians--the "smart" or "fancy" kind.

    8) Meet a white, black, or Hispanic kids with scores over 700 on the "old" SAT, they will be impressive. Asian kids may or may not be. I've met some incredibly ordinary Chinese Americans with not an original thought in their heads who have straight 2400s.

    9) the reason that colleges discriminate against Asians: 1) they cheat 2) while there are many individually terrific Asians, overwhelmingly you get boring students with one question: "Will this be on the test?" 3) Culturally, their notion of academic excellence is diametrically opposed to the American, even western one. 4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I'll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren't bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don't like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.

    11) I'm pretty sure David Coleman changed the SAT because he wants to take over the high school test market, not because he wants to be the college admissions test. There have been several shocking examples of states dumping the ACT , which they'd used for decades in favor of the new, untested SAT. People are wondering why. There's something hinky going on.

    12) I wrote about the scarcity of high black SAT scores nearly four years ago. The percentiles by race have been available every year for some pretty simple math.

    Excellent information. Please elaborate on what happens to the schools described in #10 above.

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  219. @Ed
    Sorry wasn't clear. The 1.1% is of all test takers that scored above 700, not all black test taker, now Brookings says it's 2%.

    I understand.

    The reason the SAT was changed in 2016 was because the exam was losing market share to the ACT exam. The market that SAT was losing was whites, however, SAT gained blacks.

    In 2005, 153,132 blacks took the SAT. In 2015, 219,018 blacks took the SAT.

    In 2005, 51,587 whites scored 700 or above on the SAT math section. In 2015, only 48,014 whites (6% of 800,236) scored 700 or above on the SAT math section.

    As mentioned, the increased number of blacks scoring 700 plus on the math SAT are overwhelmingly the children of immigrants or mixed-race or both. I couldn’t figure out how Brittany Stinson got into five Ivys and Stanford, until I read a Quartz article that said that she has a white father and Brazilian mother who “identifies” as black. Brittany told Quartz that she is a proponent of affirmative action.

    Photo of Brittany Stinson:

    http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/education/2016/04/16/essay-makes-concord-valedictorian-momentarily-famous/83100152/

    https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-ethnicity-2015.pdf

    http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

    https://qz.com/657374/a-high-schooler-was-accepted-to-five-ivy-league-colleges-with-an-essay-about-costco/

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  220. Jefferson says:
    @Jack D
    Probably because either the College Board or Brookings are fudging their numbers and adopting a very broad (or as they say "conservative") method for counting who is "black" and "Hispanic". So a 100% Castilian Cuban or Lebanese Christian Mexican who should really get counted in the white category gets put down as Hispanic and someone who is 1/2 or more white gets counted as 100% black (whereas mulattoes tend to have IQ somewhere between black and white on average).

    Immigrant blacks are another special case because they are a selected group. We see this with S. Asians - overall S. Asian IQ is no great shakes but in the US we get a selected group of smarter Indians and since they have a billion people they have a large pool to select from.

    An illustrative anecdote. When my daughter went away to college (a well known technical u. in Mass.), she extolled to me the virtues of her "black" friend who was just as smart as any white person, thus proving my HBD notions wrong. When I finally met this black genius, he was about as black as Benjamin Jealous and it turned out he was the product of a marriage between an upper class Haitian woman and a Frenchman. The mother had taken off and he had been raised by his very strict French father. But for SAT and college admission purposes, he was "black".

    “When I finally met this black genius, he was about as black as Benjamin Jealous”

    Benjamin Jealous is genetically more European than the vast majority of Hispanics in The U.S. He is 80 percent European while the average Hispanic in this country is only 60 percent European.

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  221. Jefferson says:
    @Triumph104
    In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it.

    http://caaspp.cde.ca.gov/sb2016/Search

    “In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it.”

    Many people here on The Unz inaccurately paint Filipinos Americans as an underclass ethnic group but their average household income is higher than that of the average White American household.

    So if Filipino Americans are an underclass demographic what does that make White Americans? A bone crushing poverty demographic.

    Filipinos in The Bay Area, Sacramento, Los Angeles, and San Diego metropolitan areas on average tend to live in quite nice looking suburban homes that people associate with the American dream.

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    • Replies: @Stationary Feast

    Many people here on The Unz inaccurately paint Filipinos Americans as an underclass ethnic group but their average household income is higher than that of the average White American household.
     
    Could be an artifact of cost-of-living differences, too. There are more white people in the lower-cost middle 2/3 of the country compared to Filipinos who, I'd wager, cluster more around the more-expensive west coast.
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  222. @Jefferson
    "In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it."


    Many people here on The Unz inaccurately paint Filipinos Americans as an underclass ethnic group but their average household income is higher than that of the average White American household.

    So if Filipino Americans are an underclass demographic what does that make White Americans? A bone crushing poverty demographic.

    Filipinos in The Bay Area, Sacramento, Los Angeles, and San Diego metropolitan areas on average tend to live in quite nice looking suburban homes that people associate with the American dream.

    Many people here on The Unz inaccurately paint Filipinos Americans as an underclass ethnic group but their average household income is higher than that of the average White American household.

    Could be an artifact of cost-of-living differences, too. There are more white people in the lower-cost middle 2/3 of the country compared to Filipinos who, I’d wager, cluster more around the more-expensive west coast.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Could be an artifact of cost-of-living differences, too. There are more white people in the lower-cost middle 2/3 of the country compared to Filipinos who, I’d wager, cluster more around the more-expensive west coast."

    If you see how the average Filipino family lives on the Westcoast it is definitely not underclass. Filipinos manage to disproportionately get overpaid government jobs through family and ethnic networking. A Filipino working at the post office will manage to get all of his Filipino family members a job at the post office as well.

    Filipino ethnic networking in The U.S means they have a very low unemployment rate in this country.
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  223. @anonymous
    "...One overlooked reason for the trend toward city living is that better windows, better earplugs, and so forth makes sleeping in the city easier these days than in the 20th Century."

    Perhaps a substantial part of the Flynn effect last century was due to the spread of affordable coil-spring mattresses that kids could sleep on?

    Not impossible …

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  224. m___ says:

    If quality of life is a concern, quality humanity and not quantitative humanity should be the goal of an intelligent system. Part of this is vying for the elite individual intelligence, curating it, empower it, genetically flood it over the time and geography lines of the planet.

    Fast, “there is a blob of sticky tar at the power top, there is little comprehension to be expected at the bottom. Alternative elites will have to take responsibility or “they” will perish, together with the Darwinian, social Darwinian ‘sludge, who cares(existing power structures do not)’.

    Above are not elitist, “fascist” remarks but a well laid crude line of what is expecting us, humanity, indiscriminately at every turn in the now to further on in what is left of linear history. Auto-engineering humanity, our best change to alleviate the burden, our best chance of survival.

    Particulate individuals hunting, gene-engineering(genome editing), for the brighter and the limit lies there, and destruction, planned demolition for the literate workforces while being inoculated.

    Eugenics in the light above, not by obsolete war, but by interactive ‘at the individual level’ interference to intentionally cancel the white noise of existing humanity is my mono-processor best potent guess as to where gravitate human impact to.

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  225. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Desiderius

    there is no way to achieve it without focusing on the genetics
     
    That's why the media's pushing race mixing so hard.

    yes

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  226. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Broski
    Not just Filipinos and Pacific Islanders, but Hmong, Viet, Cambodians, Thai etc. are not that smart. In my experience they tend to be hard working like more northerly Asians, though (with the exception of the Islanders and probably the Hmong).

    yes “Asian” is too broad a category if you believe geography is key

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "yes “Asian” is too broad a category if you believe geography is key".

    So is the U.S census definition of "White" which is geography based rather than phenotype based. According to The U.S census these Egyptian kids for example are "White".
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7354/8724917707_6b826ace05_b.jpg
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  227. Jefferson says:
    @Stationary Feast

    Many people here on The Unz inaccurately paint Filipinos Americans as an underclass ethnic group but their average household income is higher than that of the average White American household.
     
    Could be an artifact of cost-of-living differences, too. There are more white people in the lower-cost middle 2/3 of the country compared to Filipinos who, I'd wager, cluster more around the more-expensive west coast.

    “Could be an artifact of cost-of-living differences, too. There are more white people in the lower-cost middle 2/3 of the country compared to Filipinos who, I’d wager, cluster more around the more-expensive west coast.”

    If you see how the average Filipino family lives on the Westcoast it is definitely not underclass. Filipinos manage to disproportionately get overpaid government jobs through family and ethnic networking. A Filipino working at the post office will manage to get all of his Filipino family members a job at the post office as well.

    Filipino ethnic networking in The U.S means they have a very low unemployment rate in this country.

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    • Replies: @Stationary Feast
    I'd no idea Filipinos listen to Radio Derb.
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  228. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @NOTA
    It's weird--we have all these outrage of the moment stories that get a lot of attention (rioting idiots vs Milo, protests vs Trump's executive order), but probably none of those stories matter very much, except maybe in terms of today's political fights. And then we have stuff on the IQ gap or demographic trends, which are pretty much going to shape our grandchildrens' world, and they get little attention even though they're like 100x as important. It's like we're riding on the Titanic, and any discussion of iceberg distribution in the North Atlantic gets little attention, because everyone's really upset over the outrageous colors the captain wants to repaint the deck chairs.

    the media is owned by the oligarchs benefiting from the current course – so they deflect attention

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  229. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Broski
    Aside from IQ, the best predictor of success in life is conscientiousness.

    yes – underlooked imo

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  230. @Jefferson
    "Could be an artifact of cost-of-living differences, too. There are more white people in the lower-cost middle 2/3 of the country compared to Filipinos who, I’d wager, cluster more around the more-expensive west coast."

    If you see how the average Filipino family lives on the Westcoast it is definitely not underclass. Filipinos manage to disproportionately get overpaid government jobs through family and ethnic networking. A Filipino working at the post office will manage to get all of his Filipino family members a job at the post office as well.

    Filipino ethnic networking in The U.S means they have a very low unemployment rate in this country.

    I’d no idea Filipinos listen to Radio Derb.

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  231. res says:
    @anonguy

    From some Google searching I estimated that a 750-800 SAT Math scorers would have about 135+ IQ.
     
    That is from current SAT, no? Pre-norming, I think that SAT Math range is associated with 150+ IQ

    Depends on the verbal score. This site has various conversions: https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx
    That link is for the pre-1995 SAT

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  232. @Desiderius

    I was surprised when I learned that he had ultimately been denied tenure.
     
    The canary in the coal mine. I've noticed a lot of that sort of thing in my various brushes with the Academy.

    Tenure has little to do with an aptitude for teaching and more to do with your publishing record and how much grant money your research projects can bring in. Sometimes they can overlap: Prof. Alex Filippenko, for instance, is a great teacher and a great researcher.

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    But the history department at Berkeley (in those days) was not so strict on that score, probably because William Slottmann, one of the finest lecturer I have ever heard, had published next to nothing but was nevertheless one of the most powerful (and beloved) members of the department.
    It could well be though that the publish or perish rot had set in for good sometime after he himself had achieved tenure, and he and his allies were unable to fight it off after the early 1970s.
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  233. Jefferson says:
    @anon
    yes "Asian" is too broad a category if you believe geography is key

    “yes “Asian” is too broad a category if you believe geography is key”.

    So is the U.S census definition of “White” which is geography based rather than phenotype based. According to The U.S census these Egyptian kids for example are “White”.

    Read More
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  234. @European-American
    Right, obviously SATs and IQ are not a perfect predictor of success in any activity. In basketball, for example, while IQ is no doubt correlated with success (all other things being equal), SAT scores are a poor predictor of success, since height, physical ability, and group dynamics are more important factors.

    I bet something similar happens for business and many other activities.

    Still, we, like most societies, decide to select people primarily on IQ-related criteria for entrance into the most selective institutions of learning, and more generally into many institutions that have selection.

    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution. It wasn't a big concern when whites were on top (also because Jews are not very visible), but now that Asians are visibly kicking everybody else's ass in IQ in our country... Maybe this will become a more serious and very real concern, and not just an opportunity for status signaling.

    But any such correction strikes me as making only a marginal difference in outcomes. The real question is, are you OK with replacing your country's elites with elites from another culture and race?... Awkward...

    We are systematically selecting for people whose brains mature prematurely.

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  235. @Jack D
    Yes the floor on the SAT is 200. Even zero right answers is a 200. But scores between 200 and 300 are possible and have been omitted from the graph, I assume intentionally because they are dominated by blacks and Hispanics.

    Thank you for the clarification.

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  236. Jack D says:
    @HA
    ">I don’t buy the “victim” thing. Everyone in modern America wants to claim victim status and collect victim Pokemon points."

    Coming from you, that's especially....well, special. Does that high IQ you speak of come with a side of enhanced self-awareness? I'm going to guess "no".

    In any case, if you spend your life sneering at others you regard as your inferiors, be they "deplorables", or, in your words, envious "drunken local peasantry", don't be surprised when reality rips you a new one. THEN come tell us how you don't buy the "victim" thing.

    This is one of the strange creepy things about the internet – I tossed off a comment half in jest 2 years ago that i didn’t even remember and you have nursed this flame of grievance like a precious thing – did I touch a nerve?

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    • Replies: @HA
    " I tossed off a comment half in jest 2 years ago that i didn’t even remember..."

    Which I responded to at the time. And even though you may not remember what you write, I try to remember what I do, which on occasion means remembering whatever prompted it. It's a useful habit.

    On a site that's all about noticing what other people don't (not to mention the running theme about dumb benighted yokels who now and again get a tad resentful at all the noses looking down at them -- at least until the next election or war-to-save-civilization needs more votes or cannon fodder), you might be surprised by what sticks in people's heads, not to mention their craws.

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  237. @Triumph104
    In California, Filipinos score exactly the same as whites on standardized tests. Filipinos are their own ethnic group in California. The University of California system used to post the SAT scores of applicants by ethnic groups and Filipinos scored the same as whites.

    The 2016 results of the California state math exam shows that for 11th grade Filipinos, 32% met standards and another 19% exceeded. In math for 11th grade whites, 26% met standards and another 18% exceeded.

    The achievement gap between whites and Filipinos has been closed for years, but no one will acknowledge it.

    http://caaspp.cde.ca.gov/sb2016/Search

    Filipinos scored the same as whites

    What is included in the Californian “white” category? Armenian immigrants? Arabs? Miscategorized Hispanics?

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  238. @Yak-15
    I believe La Griffe has the best curve fit built upon test score gaps. As I recall, he aggregated all major standardized tests (ACT, SAT, LSAT, MCAT, etc) and came up with an intelligence prediction line. Remarkably, IQ score differences nearly perfectly fit the data produced by the standardized test gaps. It's almost as if all these tests are highlighting a basic human condition. Their stability over time is even more remarkable.

    Also, anyone have more race and income breakdowns besides the JBHE data?

    I wonder if La Griffe has an appointment in the Trump Administration. He deserves it.

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    • Replies: @Yak-15
    God I hope so
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  239. HA says:
    @Jack D
    This is one of the strange creepy things about the internet - I tossed off a comment half in jest 2 years ago that i didn't even remember and you have nursed this flame of grievance like a precious thing - did I touch a nerve?

    ” I tossed off a comment half in jest 2 years ago that i didn’t even remember…”

    Which I responded to at the time. And even though you may not remember what you write, I try to remember what I do, which on occasion means remembering whatever prompted it. It’s a useful habit.

    On a site that’s all about noticing what other people don’t (not to mention the running theme about dumb benighted yokels who now and again get a tad resentful at all the noses looking down at them — at least until the next election or war-to-save-civilization needs more votes or cannon fodder), you might be surprised by what sticks in people’s heads, not to mention their craws.

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  240. @education realist
    I'm late to this (had grades and a new semester start off), but my lord, the crap being spewed.'

    1) I'm not sure why 200-300s were left off the list, but what many of you don't seem to know is that a negative raw score used to be possible. So all the negative raw scores through to 0 still got 200.

    2) The new SAT, the one that began last year, is significant harder than the one that lived from 2005 through 2015, which was absurdly easy. The College Board was trying to close the achievement gap and make some money, so it rolled the old writing test into the main SAT, making it longer, then it reduced the number of each questions in all sections, making it shorter, and again, the achievement gap maintenance meant that the questions removed were all the more difficult ones. Thus simultaneously making the test longer but each section shorter and easier. The new one is far more difficult than any prior SAT. (I wrote about the 2005 changes here and the new test here. BTW, all the data discussed in Brookings is on the 2005-2015 test.

    3) Any idiot who thinks removing the guessing penalty does anything to make the test easier or harder ought not to be even playing in the game here.

    4) The ACT and the SAT do have the same general scoring percentiles, but it's not uncommon for individuals in both the high scoring and lower scoring percentiles to have a significant preference. My son's SAT score was 2000; his ACT converted score was 2250. I've also known kids to get a high 300 on SAT math and hit something closer to 500 (converted) on ACT Math.

    5) Duh, there's more than one group of Asians. This has been thoroughly discussed for decades, so why would anyone talk about it like a big discovery?

    6) From what I've tried to ascertain, the College Board resolutely refuses to make public whether it is reporting on US students only when it breaks down by race. And it also refuses to release averages for its international scores by country. That's because it's worried that the scores will look suspicious and add to the general weight of the Reuters reporting on College Board and Chinese corruption, both here and overseas.

    7) The "growing" Asian dominance is in part because of higher IQ average, but given the relative ease of the SAT, a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians--the "smart" or "fancy" kind.

    8) Meet a white, black, or Hispanic kids with scores over 700 on the "old" SAT, they will be impressive. Asian kids may or may not be. I've met some incredibly ordinary Chinese Americans with not an original thought in their heads who have straight 2400s.

    9) the reason that colleges discriminate against Asians: 1) they cheat 2) while there are many individually terrific Asians, overwhelmingly you get boring students with one question: "Will this be on the test?" 3) Culturally, their notion of academic excellence is diametrically opposed to the American, even western one. 4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I'll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren't bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don't like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.

    11) I'm pretty sure David Coleman changed the SAT because he wants to take over the high school test market, not because he wants to be the college admissions test. There have been several shocking examples of states dumping the ACT , which they'd used for decades in favor of the new, untested SAT. People are wondering why. There's something hinky going on.

    12) I wrote about the scarcity of high black SAT scores nearly four years ago. The percentiles by race have been available every year for some pretty simple math.

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I’ll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren’t bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don’t like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.

    New York City’s SHSAT (Specialized High School Admissions Test) is designed to make sure that students who are gifted in at least one area (or both, of course) are admitted. Elite colleges select students the same way, more by talent than test score.

    “Last year, for instance, a student with a 99 percentile score in math and 49 percentile in verbal would have been admitted to Stuyvesant High School — the most coveted specialized school — but a student with a 97 in math and 92 in verbal would not.

    As a result, test-prep tutors who understand how the test is scored advise their students to spend as much time as possible not where they are weakest, but on their stronger subject.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/12/nyregion/admission-tests-scoring-quirk-throws-balance-into-question.html?_r=0

    New York City public schools are 17% Asian, 26% black, 41% Hispanic, and 15% white.

    Number and ethnicity of SHSAT test-takers 2015-2016:
    8062 Asian, 5914 black, 6070 Hispanic, 4729 White

    Distribution of offers of admission 2015-2016:
    53.7% Asian, 4.1% black, 6.3% Hispanic, 27.1% white

    http://parentsofnyteens.blogspot.com/2016/03/shsat-results-by-race-2015-2016.html

    Asians are most likely to take the SHSAT, receive an offer of admission, and accept an offer.

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  241. gregor says:
    @james wilson
    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels. I wonder if that is true of the east Asian to some degree as well.

    It is tempting to reuse that explanation here and I’ve seen it suggested many times, but I’ve never seen it confirmed empirically. Asian SAT scores actually show elevated sd in the upper 120s per section compared to just over 100 for whites (though that might be because they lump in S Asians and Pacific Islanders which probably makes it bimodal).

    They do not seem to perform to the level implied by their SAT scores. Here is the list of Fields Medal winners. There are not a lot of E Asians.

    http://stats.areppim.com/listes/list_fieldsxmedal.htm

    I wonder if the difference might even be in the higher moments. Could also be other attributes.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It is tempting to reuse that explanation here and I’ve seen it suggested many times, but I’ve never seen it confirmed empirically.
     
    Indeed, what empirical data that exist seem to indicate otherwise: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    They do not seem to perform to the level implied by their SAT scores. Here is the list of Fields Medal winners. There are not a lot of E Asians.
     
    I suspect a couple of things are at work here. First, as equities brochures say, past performance is not an indicator of future performance. For a variety of historical reasons, East Asia has emerged only in the last 30-40 years into the top ranks of industrialized, high tech societies. Awards such as Nobel and Fields, I suspect, are trailing indicators. In other words, let's see what happens in the next 20-30 years.

    Second, in most Asian countries, the emphasis have been catching up with the West rather than overtaking it. In other words, a lot of top talent was channeled into industrialization - agriculture, chemistry, engineering, IT, etc. - rather than basic theoretical research such as physics and mathematics. It's only recently that the "bread and butter" side of the STEM fields has begun to lose luster in East Asia (and even then in the more developed parts such as Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan while China is still churning out a massive number of engineers).

    Third, of course one should not disregad genetic factors. Just as East Asians may enjoy higher visuo-spatial and quantitative IQ than whites, they may lower risk-taking and higher conformist tendencies. And these potential genetic factors may be multiplied by their social structure. Note, however, that such genetic and/or social tendencies are not fixed permanently. There is today much more appetite for "adventure" among the young East Asians than the old. So it's foolish to predict the future based on the past.
    , @Triumph104
    Culture and politics explain why there are few Asian, not just East Asian, Fields Medalists. All but two were educated in the West. One of the two fully educated in Asia, Kunihiko Kodaira, had to teach himself during WWII.

    Changes are happening rapidly. It is now common for the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to send majority Asian teams the International Mathematical Olympiad. In 2006, China placed first at the IMO. Five of the six competitors are now PhD candidates in the US. The sixth competitor was accepted into a US doctoral program but chose to become a monk instead. Expect to see more Asian Fields Medalists in the future.

    2016 IMO teams:

    Australia LINK
    Canada LINK
    New Zealand LINK
    Switzerland LINK

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  242. matt says:
    @james wilson
    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels. I wonder if that is true of the east Asian to some degree as well.

    The bell curve is different between sexes, with women more grouped to the center, fewer at retarded and genius levels.

    Not in Romania it isn’t. From a study published last year based on four standardization samples:

    The authors investigate sex differences in mean scores and variance, in general and specific intelligence, based on raw data from the standardization samples of six cognitive ability measures adapted and normed in Romania. The results show that fewer than 10% of the possible comparisons exhibit sex differences; these differences have a random pattern and are not replicated across measures. The authors conclude that these Romanian data show no support for the sex differences in either mean values or variance of scores which were reported by other studies.

    Since the studies that found sex differences in variance were based on less representative samples than this one, the authors conjecture that the previous findings were flukes.

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  243. @lavoisier
    I would agree that this information is discouraging for white folk, but I think the information has to be viewed in context. The Asian-American population in the United States is a cognitive elite and often represents the bright end of the Bell curve. This is true because they are immigrants to the West, and study after study has documented the cognitive superiority of the immigrant over the non-immigrant on average coming from these regions of the world.

    However, I think the disparity also has a lot to do with the fact that our society is dumbed down and academic excellence is no longer as popular as it once was. At the risk of generalizing too much, we are not as hungry for knowledge as we once were.

    Evidence can be presented simply by looking at high school textbooks on subjects in math and science from the 1950s and these same subjects today. There is a definite "dumbing down" occurring in our educational system and a lot of it is probably derivative of the Cultural Marxism and egalitarianism that has infected our society. I picked up a high school physics book the other day from 1958 and was shocked at how rigorous it was. In fact, it was well beyond the content of my first semester class in mechanics taken at one of the top Universities in the United States in the 1990s.

    But I would not take anything away from these Asian-Americans. They are smart cookies and they are kicking our asses academically. And by the way, the incidence of National Merit Finalists suggests that they are kicking Jewish American assess too.

    Time to get rid of the SAT!!

    But I would not take anything away from these Asian-Americans. They are smart cookies and they are kicking our asses academically. And by the way, the incidence of National Merit Finalists suggests that they are kicking Jewish American assess too.

    Screw ‘em. They’re parasites.

    Even if they’re not cheating massively (and they are), we owe them nothing. We have no obligation – moral, legal, or otherwise – to allow them to swarm into our country and dominate our institutions. Our country and our universities exist for our benefit. We shouldn’t need any reason to exclude them other than they are outsiders and are not entitled to the fruits of our ancestors’ labor.

    Society is not a mechanism for transferring wealth and power to high-IQ carpetbaggers. It is (or should be) a contract governing the relations of a folk united by a common ancestry, heritage, and culture.

    On my most recent visit to my alma mater, I was struck by the overwhelming numbers of Asians (and Arabs).

    To be sure, I had plenty of foreign classmates when I was in school, but there are a hell of a lot more Asians walking around campus than there were 15 years ago.

    (Hijab-wearers were a rare sight then; they’re everywhere now.)

    Why do we let these outsiders come over here and dominate our institutions? (Answer: They pay full out-of-state tuition.)

    I’m a white guy. I want to live in a white society that actively promotes the interests of white folks. Barring that, I want to live in a white society where other ethnic groups’ dysfunction is kept to a minimum.

    (That being said, I wouldn’t want to live in, say, Appalachia. Or even Idaho.)

    In principle, the idea of meritocracy benefits any society; in practice, it is useful to whites only to the extent that it allows the smartest, most-competent whites to ascend to the top in fields where intelligence and competency are key. Even if those at the top of the academic-performance game are not white, I’d rather have whites running a white society than non-whites presiding over a multicultural salad (toilet) bowl.

    (Fortunately, there are enough high-IQ whites to ensure that the ablest are plenty smart. America has no shortage of intelligent white folks. Even if we exclude the Jews from our definition of “whiteness,” we still have a large – and largely-undeveloped – talent pool from which to draw.)

    Depending on how narrowly one defines “white,” it is likely that many Jews, mischlings, and quarterlings will end up at the top of a meritocratic system. The idea that Jewish domination of (or at least vast over-representation in) certain fields is inevitable due to their greater innate intelligence bothers me. I’m not a Jew-hater, but I’m not happy about the fact that Jews have such a prominent position in our society.

    Honestly, I’d rather live in a society where white goyim dominate everything. That’s not to say that I want to start building ovens; it is to say that I favor my kind over others, and Jews are not my kind. I don’t resent Jews for favoring their kind over mine.

    Then again, if I had to choose between living in a society dominated by Jews and living in one dominated by Asians, I’d pick the former in a heartbeat.

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    • Replies: @Jack D

    Even if we exclude the Jews from our definition of “whiteness,” we still have a large – and largely-undeveloped – talent pool from which to draw.)
     
    Where are all these gentile geniuses hiding? Who/what is stopping them from developing their talents? Even if they are discriminated against at snobby coastal institutions, they can attend their own state U's, many of which are excellent (and less expensive).
    , @Twinkie

    Screw ‘em. They’re parasites.
     
    What have YOU done for our country?

    I’m a white guy. I want to live in a white society that actively promotes the interests of white folks. Barring that, I want to live in a white society where other ethnic groups’ dysfunction is kept to a minimum.

    (That being said, I wouldn’t want to live in, say, Appalachia. Or even Idaho.)
     
    In other words, you want to live with fancy whites in Boulder or Portland, but not with hillbillies in West Virginia. Wannabe elitist whites like you ARE the problem for downscale whites, because you think you are better than the latter and treat the latter like disposable trash.
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  244. Twinkie says:
    @artichoke
    I think the Asian IQ spectrum is also narrower than whites, so proportionately less 150+ scores. But you don't need that kind of an IQ to score 750 on the SAT. I'd guess 140 is plenty, with proper studying. And "proper studying" and a little cheating here and there is what Asians are known for.

    I think the Asian IQ spectrum is also narrower than whites, so proportionately less 150+ scores.

    That’s often asserted by white supremacist types as a way of explaning away Asian IQ advantage (“Must be because their smart fraction is smaller”), but has not been demonstrated. In fact, Steven Hsu found the opposite in his review of PISA numbers, i.e. Asians have a greater variance in cognitive abilities than whites do: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

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  245. Twinkie says:
    @gregor
    It is tempting to reuse that explanation here and I've seen it suggested many times, but I've never seen it confirmed empirically. Asian SAT scores actually show elevated sd in the upper 120s per section compared to just over 100 for whites (though that might be because they lump in S Asians and Pacific Islanders which probably makes it bimodal).

    They do not seem to perform to the level implied by their SAT scores. Here is the list of Fields Medal winners. There are not a lot of E Asians.

    http://stats.areppim.com/listes/list_fieldsxmedal.htm

    I wonder if the difference might even be in the higher moments. Could also be other attributes.

    It is tempting to reuse that explanation here and I’ve seen it suggested many times, but I’ve never seen it confirmed empirically.

    Indeed, what empirical data that exist seem to indicate otherwise: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html

    They do not seem to perform to the level implied by their SAT scores. Here is the list of Fields Medal winners. There are not a lot of E Asians.

    I suspect a couple of things are at work here. First, as equities brochures say, past performance is not an indicator of future performance. For a variety of historical reasons, East Asia has emerged only in the last 30-40 years into the top ranks of industrialized, high tech societies. Awards such as Nobel and Fields, I suspect, are trailing indicators. In other words, let’s see what happens in the next 20-30 years.

    Second, in most Asian countries, the emphasis have been catching up with the West rather than overtaking it. In other words, a lot of top talent was channeled into industrialization – agriculture, chemistry, engineering, IT, etc. – rather than basic theoretical research such as physics and mathematics. It’s only recently that the “bread and butter” side of the STEM fields has begun to lose luster in East Asia (and even then in the more developed parts such as Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan while China is still churning out a massive number of engineers).

    Third, of course one should not disregad genetic factors. Just as East Asians may enjoy higher visuo-spatial and quantitative IQ than whites, they may lower risk-taking and higher conformist tendencies. And these potential genetic factors may be multiplied by their social structure. Note, however, that such genetic and/or social tendencies are not fixed permanently. There is today much more appetite for “adventure” among the young East Asians than the old. So it’s foolish to predict the future based on the past.

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  246. Twinkie says:
    @education realist
    I'm late to this (had grades and a new semester start off), but my lord, the crap being spewed.'

    1) I'm not sure why 200-300s were left off the list, but what many of you don't seem to know is that a negative raw score used to be possible. So all the negative raw scores through to 0 still got 200.

    2) The new SAT, the one that began last year, is significant harder than the one that lived from 2005 through 2015, which was absurdly easy. The College Board was trying to close the achievement gap and make some money, so it rolled the old writing test into the main SAT, making it longer, then it reduced the number of each questions in all sections, making it shorter, and again, the achievement gap maintenance meant that the questions removed were all the more difficult ones. Thus simultaneously making the test longer but each section shorter and easier. The new one is far more difficult than any prior SAT. (I wrote about the 2005 changes here and the new test here. BTW, all the data discussed in Brookings is on the 2005-2015 test.

    3) Any idiot who thinks removing the guessing penalty does anything to make the test easier or harder ought not to be even playing in the game here.

    4) The ACT and the SAT do have the same general scoring percentiles, but it's not uncommon for individuals in both the high scoring and lower scoring percentiles to have a significant preference. My son's SAT score was 2000; his ACT converted score was 2250. I've also known kids to get a high 300 on SAT math and hit something closer to 500 (converted) on ACT Math.

    5) Duh, there's more than one group of Asians. This has been thoroughly discussed for decades, so why would anyone talk about it like a big discovery?

    6) From what I've tried to ascertain, the College Board resolutely refuses to make public whether it is reporting on US students only when it breaks down by race. And it also refuses to release averages for its international scores by country. That's because it's worried that the scores will look suspicious and add to the general weight of the Reuters reporting on College Board and Chinese corruption, both here and overseas.

    7) The "growing" Asian dominance is in part because of higher IQ average, but given the relative ease of the SAT, a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians--the "smart" or "fancy" kind.

    8) Meet a white, black, or Hispanic kids with scores over 700 on the "old" SAT, they will be impressive. Asian kids may or may not be. I've met some incredibly ordinary Chinese Americans with not an original thought in their heads who have straight 2400s.

    9) the reason that colleges discriminate against Asians: 1) they cheat 2) while there are many individually terrific Asians, overwhelmingly you get boring students with one question: "Will this be on the test?" 3) Culturally, their notion of academic excellence is diametrically opposed to the American, even western one. 4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I'll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren't bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don't like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.

    11) I'm pretty sure David Coleman changed the SAT because he wants to take over the high school test market, not because he wants to be the college admissions test. There have been several shocking examples of states dumping the ACT , which they'd used for decades in favor of the new, untested SAT. People are wondering why. There's something hinky going on.

    12) I wrote about the scarcity of high black SAT scores nearly four years ago. The percentiles by race have been available every year for some pretty simple math.

    a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians–the “smart” or “fancy” kind.

    Physician, heal thyself:

    but my lord, the crap being spewed.’

    As for the following:

    Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don’t like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools. [Boldface mine.]

    How would you know? You are not one of the “rich whites.” Stop projecting your hangups.

    I do happen to know quite a few rich people and many of them indeed do not like competition for their children, especially from their socio-economic inferiors. That’s just human nature.

    Specialized high schools in NYC are very popular with aspiring middle class and low class parents who have no means of getting their children into astronomically expensive prep schools in the area (except a few high caliber NAM students who are given scholarships). It just so happens that a bulk of the high IQ students with moderate income parents in NYC are East and South Asians, mostly immigrants. Indeed, there is still a sizable Eastern European immigrant contingent at these schools, because the same IQ-income dynamic is present with them. Put another way, when you compare the economic backgrounds of that white 15% and the Asian 7%, you will find that the backgrounds are not identical or even similar.

    Rich parents, white or not, generally flee these high IQ public schools for prep schools, which have always offered an easier – more “connected” – path to the Ivy League, that is if you could afford them. Have you actually seen what the prep schools in NYC look like? They are not exactly devoid of Asians. It’s just that these Asians tend to also come from rich families who can afford the tuitions as the white students do. And that’s not just NYC. Take a look at Exeter, Andover, etc.

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  247. Twinkie says:
    @MarkinLA
    Maybe whites and blacks could get together to try to identify objective criteria besides IQ that would predict success in any given institution.

    Well isn't this what all the whining by Asians over Ivy admissions is all about? The Asians only want GPAs and SAT scores to matter. The school doesn't want the place to be all Asian and tries to weigh other factors like community involvement or outside achievements.

    No matter what you do somebody gets screwed and somebody's extracurricular activities get ignored (probably unfairly). The Jews only want academic pursuits or letters of recommendation from other academics (uncle Shlomo) to count. Rural whites don't like that their interest in animal husbandry (Future farmers of America, 4H) is actually considered a negative by mostly urban members on the admission committee.

    Well isn’t this what all the whining by Asians over Ivy admissions is all about? The Asians only want GPAs and SAT scores to matter. The school doesn’t want the place to be all Asian and tries to weigh other factors like community involvement or outside achievements.

    There is no evidence that Asian students have lower “community involvement” or “outside achievement” than students of other race/ethnicity.

    And it’s no more whining than similar bemoaning from “flyover country” rural, non-Jewish white students of high caliber who have trouble getting into these top universities.

    It’s just that they are directing their fire/anger at the wrong target.

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  248. Twinkie says:
    @education realist
    I'm late to this (had grades and a new semester start off), but my lord, the crap being spewed.'

    1) I'm not sure why 200-300s were left off the list, but what many of you don't seem to know is that a negative raw score used to be possible. So all the negative raw scores through to 0 still got 200.

    2) The new SAT, the one that began last year, is significant harder than the one that lived from 2005 through 2015, which was absurdly easy. The College Board was trying to close the achievement gap and make some money, so it rolled the old writing test into the main SAT, making it longer, then it reduced the number of each questions in all sections, making it shorter, and again, the achievement gap maintenance meant that the questions removed were all the more difficult ones. Thus simultaneously making the test longer but each section shorter and easier. The new one is far more difficult than any prior SAT. (I wrote about the 2005 changes here and the new test here. BTW, all the data discussed in Brookings is on the 2005-2015 test.

    3) Any idiot who thinks removing the guessing penalty does anything to make the test easier or harder ought not to be even playing in the game here.

    4) The ACT and the SAT do have the same general scoring percentiles, but it's not uncommon for individuals in both the high scoring and lower scoring percentiles to have a significant preference. My son's SAT score was 2000; his ACT converted score was 2250. I've also known kids to get a high 300 on SAT math and hit something closer to 500 (converted) on ACT Math.

    5) Duh, there's more than one group of Asians. This has been thoroughly discussed for decades, so why would anyone talk about it like a big discovery?

    6) From what I've tried to ascertain, the College Board resolutely refuses to make public whether it is reporting on US students only when it breaks down by race. And it also refuses to release averages for its international scores by country. That's because it's worried that the scores will look suspicious and add to the general weight of the Reuters reporting on College Board and Chinese corruption, both here and overseas.

    7) The "growing" Asian dominance is in part because of higher IQ average, but given the relative ease of the SAT, a good chunk of the explanation is wholesale cheating and gaming by Asians--the "smart" or "fancy" kind.

    8) Meet a white, black, or Hispanic kids with scores over 700 on the "old" SAT, they will be impressive. Asian kids may or may not be. I've met some incredibly ordinary Chinese Americans with not an original thought in their heads who have straight 2400s.

    9) the reason that colleges discriminate against Asians: 1) they cheat 2) while there are many individually terrific Asians, overwhelmingly you get boring students with one question: "Will this be on the test?" 3) Culturally, their notion of academic excellence is diametrically opposed to the American, even western one. 4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.

    10) As for the NYC test: it literally favors kids who have a high score in one section and a low score in the other. That is, people with high math scores and low verbal scores are given higher totals than people with high math and high verbal. I'll let you figure that one out. And, as I mentioned in the last point, whites aren't bothering with the high scoring schools anymore. Whites 15% of the NYC school system, Asians 7%. But almost an equal number of whites and Asians take the test. Like I said: if Asians are in the academic setting, rich whites leave. And not because they don't like competition. But because they despise what happens to the schools.

    11) I'm pretty sure David Coleman changed the SAT because he wants to take over the high school test market, not because he wants to be the college admissions test. There have been several shocking examples of states dumping the ACT , which they'd used for decades in favor of the new, untested SAT. People are wondering why. There's something hinky going on.

    12) I wrote about the scarcity of high black SAT scores nearly four years ago. The percentiles by race have been available every year for some pretty simple math.

    4) Whites give way more money to alma maters, and whites reject Asian schools.

    http://harvardpolitics.com/harvard/culture-behind-asian-donations-u-s-universities/

    On September 8, Harvard University received the largest alumni donation in its 378-year history when alumnus Gerald Chan gave a whopping $350 million to the School of Public Health…

    According to a Wall Street Journal analysis of U.S. Department of Education data, Hong Kong has become the top international source of large gifts to U.S. colleges. As a matter of fact, Hong Kong donations make up 17 percent of the world’s total donations to U.S. universities. Both China and Hong Kong figure prominently in the list of top ten sources of donations to U.S. colleges from January 2007 to November 2013. Hong Kong is first, with $181 million worth of donations given to U.S. colleges. China is eighth, at $60.4 million. Furthermore, the biggest beneficiaries of these donations are elite colleges in the U.S., such as Princeton, Yale, Stanford, the University of California at Berkeley, and Harvard…

    From the data collected from a study conducted by the Wall Street Journal in 2014, it is clear that people from China and Hong Kong do give generously to U.S. universities. Billionaire and Hong Kong resident Gordon Wu donated $100 million to Princeton in 1995. Ronnie Chan (Gerald Chan’s brother) pledged $20 million to the University of Southern California in September of this year. This trend holds true in the rest of China as well. In 2010, Zhang Lei of Hillhouse Capital Group gave $8,888,888 in cash to the Yale School of Management, and gave an additional $3.9 million to Yale in 2013. More recently, SOHO China’s founders Zhang Xin and Pan Shiyi gave a $15 million gift to Harvard in July of this year. And these cases are not anomalies. Hong Kong residents account for a total of 163 disclosed gifts during the 2007-13 period, with an average donation of $1.1 million.

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  249. @European-American
    Not pedantic, thanks for the reply. I suppose I meant "four times" to apply to the top slice of the distribution, not to the whole distribution.

    If we gave a gold star to everyone in the top category, 750-800, one might naively expect each group to have a proportion of gold stars equal to their proportion in the general population. Instead, Asians get four times as many gold stars as one would expect.

    Or suppose we pick the best actors for a series of movies. I watch the movies, and I see 4 times as many Asians as I would expect. What's going on? (Well, in the case of movies, to be realistic it would of course be 4 times less Asians).

    Suppose gold stars are each group's only source of income. Then Asians come out 4 times richer than an equal distribution of income would allow. So unfair! Just because they are a little smarter...

    I guess I'm just continually amazed at the fact that a small advantage (5-15% smarter) gets magnified at the tail end (4 times more successful).

    Yes that makes sense — so a randomly chosen Asian is four times as likely to lie above the 750 threshold as a randomly chosen White. That works, although of course the multiplier “four times” depends strongly upon the chosen threshold. But yes I see what you meant now.

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  250. @gregor
    I have seen several accounts indicating that Asians tend to underperform their test scores. They do score high on the SAT-M, but they don't seem to be represented among elite mathematicians to the extent you'd think based on those scores. They do not score any higher on the LSAT and they pass the California Bar at a slightly lower rate than whites. They are also underrepresented in the upper levels of the business world.

    This is true — Asians who make it into doctoral programs have unusually high failure rates for doctoral students – not because they cannot pass the exams (they on average do quite well even at doctoral-level exams) but because some of them cannot write good quality independent research theses. This is anecdotal, but is passed around among academics in the know — I have not seen any real empirical research on it. It is a data point which is simultaneously politically very delicate and not really that important.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I can recall having lunch in 1981 with an old high school teacher, a Harvard Ph.D., who was then teaching at the top academic school in Los Angeles, what's now called Harvard-Westlake. He said, approvingly, they discriminated in admissions against Asians, despite their high test scores, because they were so boring in high school discussions.

    I recently happened upon interviews with Matthew Weiner, creator of "Mad Men," in which he asserted that Harvard-Westlake in 1981 was anti-Semitic, perhaps because it was only 40% Jewish. Granted, my old high school teacher who taught at H-W was the first cousin of Hitler's designated successor, Admiral Doenitz, so maybe he inherited Nazi blood, or something. But I suspect there is good chance that Dr. K. was considering his student Matthew Weiner in his assertion that whites were more interesting in classroom discussions than Asians.

    , @Twinkie

    Asians who make it into doctoral programs have unusually high failure rates for doctoral students – not because they cannot pass the exams (they on average do quite well even at doctoral-level exams) but because some of them cannot write good quality independent research theses.
     
    Note that many doctoral students in STEM fields today are from Asia (especially China) with relatively poor English skills. Though that's not the whole problem, it is not conducive to writing a "good quality independent research theses" in English.
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  251. @peter johnson
    This is true -- Asians who make it into doctoral programs have unusually high failure rates for doctoral students - not because they cannot pass the exams (they on average do quite well even at doctoral-level exams) but because some of them cannot write good quality independent research theses. This is anecdotal, but is passed around among academics in the know -- I have not seen any real empirical research on it. It is a data point which is simultaneously politically very delicate and not really that important.

    I can recall having lunch in 1981 with an old high school teacher, a Harvard Ph.D., who was then teaching at the top academic school in Los Angeles, what’s now called Harvard-Westlake. He said, approvingly, they discriminated in admissions against Asians, despite their high test scores, because they were so boring in high school discussions.

    I recently happened upon interviews with Matthew Weiner, creator of “Mad Men,” in which he asserted that Harvard-Westlake in 1981 was anti-Semitic, perhaps because it was only 40% Jewish. Granted, my old high school teacher who taught at H-W was the first cousin of Hitler’s designated successor, Admiral Doenitz, so maybe he inherited Nazi blood, or something. But I suspect there is good chance that Dr. K. was considering his student Matthew Weiner in his assertion that whites were more interesting in classroom discussions than Asians.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    He said, approvingly, they discriminated in admissions against Asians, despite their high test scores, because they were so boring in high school discussions.
     
    1. Did approve discrimination in favor of blacks who are much less "boring"?

    2. It appears that he has lost the battle given the percentage of Asians at Harvard-Westlake today.
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  252. roo_ster says:
    @El Dato

    England survived without it’s monasteries, we can survive without colleges.
     
    It's "its monasteries"

    These were pretty good stores of accumulated knowledge though.

    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It's just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    In other news, there will always be colleges. It's where people can gather to work on interesting problems once the food supply is secure, raiding parties can be fought off and the state's predatory wealth collection can be kept at bay.

    El dato wrote…
    Surviving without a good knowledge base is tough. It’s just as well that the muslim world translated Aristotle from Greek into Latin so that it could be read again in Blighty and elsewhere.

    Not so much. The arabs came by the classics by way of syriac translations made by christians left in syria the levant and such after arab muslim conquest. Then they were translated into arabic.

    Thus averrores was reading aristotle 3rd hand. Greek to syriac to arabic.

    And there was no need for the latin west to have arabs translate greek works into latin. Up to the 1400s they had the byzantine / roman empire to preserve the greek classics and translate them into latin or hand them over to the latins to do the work their own selves.

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  253. This sentence in the Brookings Paper is annoying:

    “Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society.”

    By the same logic, those pesky outdoor thermometers in International Falls, Minnesota continue to make it cold there during January.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    But the solution is implied in the statement - all colleges need to do is no longer rely on tests scores and the patterns of inequality will no longer reproduce. We can break the cycle of poverty! The water in your radiator will freeze regardless of whether you measure its temperature or not, but there's nothing that says Harvard can't drop the SAT requirement in the interest of distributive justice. A bunch of lower ranked lefty type liberal arts schools have done that already. Since their graduates aren't really being trained to do anything that would require any real math skills, any deficiencies in that dept. are no harm, no foul. If Genius T. Coates could not count to 10 (and for all I know, he can't) he could still write the same drivel.
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  254. Jack D says:
    @peter johnson
    This sentence in the Brookings Paper is annoying:

    "Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society."

    By the same logic, those pesky outdoor thermometers in International Falls, Minnesota continue to make it cold there during January.

    But the solution is implied in the statement – all colleges need to do is no longer rely on tests scores and the patterns of inequality will no longer reproduce. We can break the cycle of poverty! The water in your radiator will freeze regardless of whether you measure its temperature or not, but there’s nothing that says Harvard can’t drop the SAT requirement in the interest of distributive justice. A bunch of lower ranked lefty type liberal arts schools have done that already. Since their graduates aren’t really being trained to do anything that would require any real math skills, any deficiencies in that dept. are no harm, no foul. If Genius T. Coates could not count to 10 (and for all I know, he can’t) he could still write the same drivel.

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  255. Jack D says:
    @Stan Adams

    But I would not take anything away from these Asian-Americans. They are smart cookies and they are kicking our asses academically. And by the way, the incidence of National Merit Finalists suggests that they are kicking Jewish American assess too.
     
    Screw 'em. They're parasites.

    Even if they're not cheating massively (and they are), we owe them nothing. We have no obligation - moral, legal, or otherwise - to allow them to swarm into our country and dominate our institutions. Our country and our universities exist for our benefit. We shouldn't need any reason to exclude them other than they are outsiders and are not entitled to the fruits of our ancestors' labor.

    Society is not a mechanism for transferring wealth and power to high-IQ carpetbaggers. It is (or should be) a contract governing the relations of a folk united by a common ancestry, heritage, and culture.

    On my most recent visit to my alma mater, I was struck by the overwhelming numbers of Asians (and Arabs).

    To be sure, I had plenty of foreign classmates when I was in school, but there are a hell of a lot more Asians walking around campus than there were 15 years ago.

    (Hijab-wearers were a rare sight then; they're everywhere now.)

    Why do we let these outsiders come over here and dominate our institutions? (Answer: They pay full out-of-state tuition.)

    I'm a white guy. I want to live in a white society that actively promotes the interests of white folks. Barring that, I want to live in a white society where other ethnic groups' dysfunction is kept to a minimum.

    (That being said, I wouldn't want to live in, say, Appalachia. Or even Idaho.)

    In principle, the idea of meritocracy benefits any society; in practice, it is useful to whites only to the extent that it allows the smartest, most-competent whites to ascend to the top in fields where intelligence and competency are key. Even if those at the top of the academic-performance game are not white, I'd rather have whites running a white society than non-whites presiding over a multicultural salad (toilet) bowl.

    (Fortunately, there are enough high-IQ whites to ensure that the ablest are plenty smart. America has no shortage of intelligent white folks. Even if we exclude the Jews from our definition of "whiteness," we still have a large - and largely-undeveloped - talent pool from which to draw.)

    Depending on how narrowly one defines "white," it is likely that many Jews, mischlings, and quarterlings will end up at the top of a meritocratic system. The idea that Jewish domination of (or at least vast over-representation in) certain fields is inevitable due to their greater innate intelligence bothers me. I'm not a Jew-hater, but I'm not happy about the fact that Jews have such a prominent position in our society.

    Honestly, I'd rather live in a society where white goyim dominate everything. That's not to say that I want to start building ovens; it is to say that I favor my kind over others, and Jews are not my kind. I don't resent Jews for favoring their kind over mine.

    Then again, if I had to choose between living in a society dominated by Jews and living in one dominated by Asians, I'd pick the former in a heartbeat.

    Even if we exclude the Jews from our definition of “whiteness,” we still have a large – and largely-undeveloped – talent pool from which to draw.)

    Where are all these gentile geniuses hiding? Who/what is stopping them from developing their talents? Even if they are discriminated against at snobby coastal institutions, they can attend their own state U’s, many of which are excellent (and less expensive).

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    How many State U grads are working at Goldman Sachs? Or sitting on the Supreme Court?

    (Are you going to tell me that there is not a single Protestant in the United States who's sharp enough to serve on the Supreme Court?)

    The top institutions in our society not only fail to recruit flyover talent, but actively discriminate against it.

    And there are other factors to consider. Jewish intelligence is an obvious prerequisite to Jewish success, but other qualities - aggressiveness, verbal fluency, ethnic nepotism - come into play.

    But maybe you're right; maybe there is a critical shortage of genuine white-goy intellectual talent. And maybe there is a critical shortage of genuine white (overwhelmingly goy) athletic talent.

    But if the Patriots can manage to win the Super Bowl, and if Trump can manage to win the presidency, then maybe, with a coordinated effort, we white goyim can accomplish more than we now think possible.

    The difficulty and impracticality of fostering white-goy solidarity makes it doubtful that the situation will change all that much in the near-future. But I'm free to dream.

    , @Twinkie

    Where are all these gentile geniuses hiding?
     
    "Flyover" country.

    Who/what is stopping them from developing their talents? Even if they are discriminated against at snobby coastal institutions, they can attend their own state U’s, many of which are excellent (and less expensive).
     
    And they do. Of course, that still locks them out of truly elite status and super high-income generating careers (there is a reason why certain prominent firms have more-or-less permanent recruitment offices at the Ivy League universities but not at Iowa State). And that's just dandy for folks who are the current elites, isn't it?

    And your attitude - "neglected high caliber non-Jewish students can go to their state universities, what's the problem?" which essentially means that bicoastal Jewish elites would continue to dominate the elite institutions - is exactly the kind of lack of noblesse oblige Jewish (and liberal white) elites display toward the white gentile masses that even the likes of David Brooks (ever so mildly) rebukes.

    Non-Jews resent Jews, not because Jews are smarter (I find that most Americans respect ingenuity and hardwork and do not begrudge those who succeed on their own merits), but because Jews have made themselves the elite, dare I say the overlord, caste that tries to lock out others who aren't a part their tribe or cultural milieu.

    Back when George W was considering a career, he supposedly sponsored a survey and found that most Americans abhored nepotism, except in two industries - entertainment and politics. Now consider the many implications of that statement.
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  256. @Jack D

    Even if we exclude the Jews from our definition of “whiteness,” we still have a large – and largely-undeveloped – talent pool from which to draw.)
     
    Where are all these gentile geniuses hiding? Who/what is stopping them from developing their talents? Even if they are discriminated against at snobby coastal institutions, they can attend their own state U's, many of which are excellent (and less expensive).

    How many State U grads are working at Goldman Sachs? Or sitting on the Supreme Court?

    (Are you going to tell me that there is not a single Protestant in the United States who’s sharp enough to serve on the Supreme Court?)

    The top institutions in our society not only fail to recruit flyover talent, but actively discriminate against it.

    And there are other factors to consider. Jewish intelligence is an obvious prerequisite to Jewish success, but other qualities – aggressiveness, verbal fluency, ethnic nepotism – come into play.

    But maybe you’re right; maybe there is a critical shortage of genuine white-goy intellectual talent. And maybe there is a critical shortage of genuine white (overwhelmingly goy) athletic talent.

    But if the Patriots can manage to win the Super Bowl, and if Trump can manage to win the presidency, then maybe, with a coordinated effort, we white goyim can accomplish more than we now think possible.

    The difficulty and impracticality of fostering white-goy solidarity makes it doubtful that the situation will change all that much in the near-future. But I’m free to dream.

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    There have been 44 people who have been POTUS. Of these, 44 (100%) have been male Christians. 43 have been Protestant and one Catholic. 43 have been white and one has been half black. Zero have been Jews. So I would say that electing a white goy as President is not exactly a breakthru accomplishment.
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  257. @The Z Blog
    When viewed as a religion, the stubborn persistence of the blank slate ideology we call Progressivism makes a lot of sense. It has within it a mechanism for dealing with disconfirmation like this. After all, if we keep getting racially disparate results, then that means racism is still a problem. The righteous have to work harder to identify the racisms and root them out of the system. Failure, in other words, is the fuel that powers the quest.

    Of course, there's big money in stalking the Big Foot of institutional racism through the forest of Western society. If you are inclined to the topic of education or educational testing, all of the incentives are in favor of chasing Big Foot and none of them favor candor. Brooking can release data showing that Big Foot is a myth, but you can be sure they have ten reports ready to "prove" that we have to try harder to find Big Foot.

    When viewed as a religion, the stubborn persistence of the blank slate ideology we call Progressivism makes a lot of sense.

    Yes. The Last Real Calvinist has persistently made this point. Unfortunately it means not only that the innocent must be punished, but that there is no upper bound on the punishment. Hence, the true believers work hard to realize dystopia in service of utopia. The 1984 playbook is the creed. You must not only see the dry bones connected, but also see the dry bones must be made flesh, you know. And if you don’t see it they will put your eyes out.

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  258. @Anon
    Why didn't you quote this very interesting part of that article, though?

    Down with standardized tests?

    Given the reliance of colleges on test scores for admissions, the gaps in SAT math performance documented here will continue to reproduce patterns of inequality in American society. It seems likely, however, that colleges rely too heavily on such tests
    . Research from William Bowen, Matthew Chingos, and Michael McPherson
    suggests that high school grades may have more incremental predictive power of college grades and graduation rates. The SAT may not be a good measure of student potential.

    Even to the extent that SAT scores do predict college success, it is far from clear that universities are justified in basing admissions so strongly on the exam. After all, a wide range of other morally relevant considerations—questions of distributive justice, for example—may well need to be weighed alongside considerations of academic preparation.
     
    This country is "overer" than over.

    This country is “overer” than over.

    No, it is not. It is never over. And I do not see how your despair helps. But you must admit that your indulgence of self-pity is a disgusting defect in your character.

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