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From The Telegraph:

Press-ups and sit-ups dropped from new gender neutral Army training

“Press-ups” are what Americans call push-ups.

Dominic Nicholls Steve Bird Duarte Dias, video producer Charlotte Krol, video producer
22 SEPTEMBER 2018 • 9:49AM

For centuries, young soldiers have been “thrashed” in a hell for leather fitness test to prove they were at the peak of physical strength and battle ready. But in a new scientific overhaul of basic training, the British Army revealed yesterday that combat training will become “gender and age neutral” – because the enemy does not care what sex or how old a soldier is.

Here’s the URL:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/21/gender-neutral-fitness-tests-soldiers-enemy-does-not-discriminate/

Fortunately, Britain’s next war is scheduled with the Oberlin College gender studies department.

Perhaps, though, the Telegraph is pulling one’s leg? In contrast, the Daily Mail makes it sound like the new gender neutrality is reserved for fitness tests, which would make the tests harder for women to pass.

 
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  1. Quite a few enemies do discriminate when it comes time to rape prisoners, though.

  2. utu says:

    Meantime in Japan:

    Japan’s Two Hopping Rovers Successfully Land on Asteroid Ryugu

    https://www.space.com/41912-japanese-hopping-rovers-land-on-asteroid.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  3. I would not be surprised if standards were weakened, the armed forces have had difficulty recruiting thanks to budget cuts. Hence more outreach to ethnic minorities etc.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/armed-forces-army-recruitment-crisis-mark-francois-report-filling-the-ranks-navy-raf-lack-of-a7929411.html

  4. @Redneck farmer

    And contrary to the Army’s statement, the enemy certainly does prefer if the Army is weak and effeminate.

    I guess when you have the Megaphone, it doesn’t matter if your slogans make sense.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  5. LondonBob says:

    The Mail sounds more realistic, a way to keep women away from the frontline by inevitably failing a non discriminatory fitness test, unless they are butch lesbians.

    The Mail also has the wall or shame on the right and my eyes were drawn towards Kelly Brook stuns in a floral dress. The wall of shame being why the Mail has such a big readership online.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6197097/PETER-HITCHENS-reveals-REAL-truth-Communist-infiltration-Britain.html

    I thought Peter Hitchens article on Blair, nu Labour and Eurocommunism was the article most worth reading though.

    • Replies: @akokral
    , @g2k
  6. LondonBob says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    Dying for a greater Israel in Mesopotamia is for some reason unpopular with the usual cannon fodder of the British Army.

  7. Tyrion 2 says:

    The minimum standard on British Army fitness tests are very easy to meet, yet there was always a much lower standard for women. Even with that lower standard, women were much more like to fail. Also, 90% of women in the Army could not pass the men’s minimum.

    For example, the 1.5 mile run in shorts and trainers on a hard flat surface needed to be completed in 10 mins 30 seconds for men and 13 minutes for women.

    The rationale for the pathetically low standard expected of women was that they would not be able to enter close combat roles and so somehow this didn’t matter.

    The real reason was that there’d be almost no women in the Army otherwise.

    This all means that when they decided to prog close combat roles by inputting women into them they had to do away with even the very minimal standards they had before.

    Really, 10 mins 30 secs is an embarrassment, sub 9 mins is respectable and sub 8 mins 15 is admirable.

    But in order to not immediately kick out the vast majority of women in the Army, they’ve had to go away and design a physical test that is both somehow even easier and most simple for a woman.

    They’ve been working on this for years. Trying desperately to design something that produces the results they want – women easily passing – while also obscuring what a joke the tests would become. (All of this is for full-time trained fully combat ready soldiers!)

    Another test will be lifting a 70kg (11st) weight and holding it for three seconds

    Every single half-healthy man can do that easily without any training whatsoever. What a joke!

  8. @Redneck farmer

    Quite a few enemies do discriminate when it comes time to rape prisoners, though.

    Afghanis (and many Arab peoples) rape men women and goats at about equal rates

  9. Cortes says:

    In breaking news, the SAS, the Royal Marines and the Black Watch are to be amalgamated into the Queens Own LGBTQ Household Brigade (with operations at the sharp end of things expected to dominate):

  10. Would appreciate hearing from someone with a military background, but I assume if Britain’s enemies do not discriminate, the British army most certainly will. Females and weak men who can only do 25 push-ups will get office jobs, the infantry will be full of men who actually have the physical strength and endurance to fight a war.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  11. Tyrion 2 says:
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Would appreciate hearing from someone with a military background, but I assume if Britain’s enemies do not discriminate, the British army most certainly will. Females and weak men who can only do 25 push-ups will get office jobs, the infantry will be full of men who actually have the physical strength and endurance to fight a war.

    No, sadly not.

    First, rapid promotion from Colonel and above usually requires political engagement. By this I mean something in the Ministry of Defence and input to policy.

    Second, the Army is particularly prone to disparate impact type claims because its uniformity allows easy statistical monitoring of all HR issues.

    In other words, as the progressives take control of the institution they will find it very easy to re-shape, even if doing so will further undermine rockbottom morale.

    See my previous post on how this physical test re-design is very much a part of this process.

    I suppose what this means is that Special Forces will become our actual deployable force and the Army will become a joke/kindergarten/madhouse. The comparison with the change in status of undergraduate and graduate degrees over the last few years is potentially analogous.

  12. Busby says:

    Our own Army is embarking on the same journey.

  13. Anonymous[940] • Disclaimer says:

    You forgot the (?)’s after “British” and “Army”.

  14. El Dato says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    With women making up just 10 per cent of the armed forces, more effort needs to be put into attracting female applicants, the report says.

    It urges the armed forces to give “maximum publicity” to the fact women are now able to serve in ground close combat roles alongside men – despite this move having by being vehemently criticised by some former senior officers.

    Mr Francois, the Conservative MP for Rayleigh and Wickford in Essex, also called for schoolchildren to be educated about the importance of the armed forces as part of the national curriculum – despite possible resistance from “left-wing teachers”.

    Left-wing teachers are the problem?

    Never mind Brexit. UK must fling more £billions at nuke subs, say MPs: New boats, decommissioning old ones, skills shortage…

    The Ministry of Defence has too many bigshots and not enough grunts – or cash – to reliably keep Britain’s nuclear deterrent hiding beneath the ocean waves, according to Parliament’s Public Accounts Committee.

    “At a time when, across the Enterprise, major organisational and governance changes have still to take full effect, the Department needs to bridge a £2.9bn affordability gap, ensure it fills identified skills gaps, sustain its supply chain, and make important decisions on significant, high–profile projects,” warned the PAC, which scrutinises government spending.

    While the Dreadnought nuclear missile submarine project is under way, the idea being to build four new boats to replace the ageing Vanguard class submarines currently in service, the PAC warned that “the [MoD] has not met many previous promises and past [submarine] programmes have slipped,” citing the other big British submarine project, the Astute programme, to build seven new attack boats. This is running slightly more than two years late and several million pounds over budget.

    Skills shortages, including problems with “attracting and retaining the range of skills they need” has also continued to dog the MoD’s submarine doings, with the PAC saying this is a wider national problem that also affects the civilian nuclear industry.

    Also lurking in the background is the small problem of every single previous British nuclear submarine still needing to be safely scrapped. All of them are moored in British naval dockyards, with the MoD having constantly kicked the issue into the long grass in the hope nobody would tell it to foot the hideously expensive bill for dismantling the boats and their nuclear reactors.

  15. Anon[195] • Disclaimer says:

    I recently cross trained with the British army and actually observed their test. It’s much more reasonable that the American army’s, in my sight.
    There is an initial test to get in, which is being discussed here. But once in, *the* test (de facto or de jure I couldn’t tel, but either way it is THE test) is a ruck March. Different branches have different standards (paratroopers have the most weight, the longest march, and the shortest time, clerks and admin the least weight, the shortest march, and the most time). I was with a signal group (roughly half-way into the “bad-ass continuum”) and their march was no joke. The British Infantry ruck far exceeds anything in the US military (aside from, perhaps, pathfinder school but you do that once in your life).
    This test has no gender scaling
    So the British army naturally self segregated into function by gender. No women (and I say that confidently) could pass the infantry test. Many could pass the admin ruck march. Which is how it ought to be, in my opinion. Who cares how fit your dental hygienist is?!?
    The American army has a scaled down version of the fitness test for women but takes their scores at face V value. So a woman with a 300 is equal to a man with a 300 despite the fact they are clearly not
    The British setup invites more women into the army than the American, but the American set up invites more women into eg artillery and infantry and ranger school

  16. The U.S Army will be adopting a gender and age neutral PT test starting next year, which will be adding weighted strength exercises (deadlift/heavy ball throw) to get a more accurate physicality assessment than body strength (pushups/pullups).

    It isn’t explicitly stated, but I strongly assume that this is to provide a much more rational method of excluding females from combat arms positions without rejecting them categorically as females, because not all military occupational specialties will require the same passing scores.

    The big grumblings are over the lack of alternative events for aging/injured personnel who will find themselves at risk of being chaptered out and losing the pension for not finishing their 20, but some general somewhere is patting himself on the back for saving the Army millions of dollars in retirement liabilities while simultaneously not filling the ranks of the infantry with the sort of crossfit type females who are in excellent shape, especially on paper using the old gendered standard, yet are almost worse than useless on the battlefield due to an inability to carry much more than themselves. Never mind the fact that they are more likely to carry their commander’s child than be able to carry their commander.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    , @peterAUS
  17. tyrone says:

    THANK GOD FOR KILLER ROBOTS!!!! at least now I know we will be safe from Russian super soldiers

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
  18. Brutusale says:
    @Redneck farmer

    They can lie back and think of England.

  19. @27 year old

    Maybe the Brits should recruit goats into their army. How many press ups can a goat do?

  20. Big Bill says:

    In other news, the Conservatives [!] in England are in consultation to amend current sex-change laws* which should make passing the physical much easier for men.

    In England, to change you sex you currently have to get chemical/surgical treatments, have medical doctors and psychologists examine you (and approve), live two years as the opposite sex, and get your birth certificate and passport changed, etc.

    Under the new law, you will simply be required to sign declaration attesting to your new trans identity.

    Assuming the Conservative [!] law passes, if you are a man and are too old, feeble and crippled to pass the army physical tests, just declare that you are a woman and retake the test. Problem solved! Once in, of course, you can just change your sex back.

    *James Delingpole/Julia Hartley Brewer podcast (Sept. 20, 2018, minute: 50):

    https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-4j4xx-4a7feab

  21. When I first the headline, I assumed, that the army wanted to implement the higher standard for men for all, although I was surprised the British army would do something so un-woke. Then I read the article and realized, that they just scraped standards for all.

  22. MThatcher says:

    In fairness, the British army will never fight another war so all this claptrap matters little. The British Parliament can’t be bothered to significantly reduce immigration standards, which pose an existential threat to Britain. There is, quite literally, nothing left to fight for in Britain.

    The British army will continue to play a supporting role to the American army in the course of international engagements, but that’s the most it will muster.

  23. How do the Israelis handle it? They’ve long had a coed force out of the sheer need for, um, manpower.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  24. Ibound1 says:

    Why should the UK do otherwise? Uncle Sam will do the actual fighting for Europe. And whenever Trump even hints we should leave NATO, that it’s not a good deal for us, the powers that be act as if he announced he is ripping up the Constitution. Have the US leave NATO and the Europeans might understand what an army is for. If not? Well then they deserve invasion by whatever army takes the minimum effort to conquer them. They certainly wont have the cojones to use nukes.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    , @g2k
  25. Fredrik says:

    It’s true that you can’t expect the enemy to discriminate and it’s a good policy to have equal physical requirements for everyone in the Army. It never occured to me that the answer would be to remove them for males…but actually it did occur to me. Nothing is too absurd anymore.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  26. Anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:

    Cue that Monty Python sketch of the gay platoon of soldiers going through their drill paces.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
  27. Dr. X says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I suppose what this means is that Special Forces will become our actual deployable force and the Army will become a joke/kindergarten/madhouse.

    This is precisely the point most Western militaries are already at. The only way they can implement these ultra-egalitarian policies regarding females, queers, transgenders, and so forth is by tacitly assuming that they will never see actual combat — by which I mean pitched battles of mass conscripts in harsh conditions like Normandy, Stalingrad, or Chosin.

    Sure, some of them might get deployed on a secure base in Kabul or something like that, and technically they’ll be regarded as being in a “combat zone,” but no Western army is going to fight battles ever again like the ones they did in the 19th or 20th centuries in the Napoleonic wars and the First and Second World Wars. Insofar as any real engagement with the enemy will take place, it’ll either be automated weapons systems or Special Forces units exempted from the P.C. bullshit and staffed almost entirely by very tough, physically fit white men.

    I have predicted for a long time now that no Western country is going to engage in a large-scale foreign war ever again… there will be numerous civil wars in our countries long before we send armies of conscripts to defeat foreigners.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  28. The US Army is implementing this concept right now. It is being adopted early by some units and the whole Army will be using it by 2020.

    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/08/01/heres-an-early-draft-of-the-armys-new-fitness-test-standards/

    Supposedly, higher scores are needed by different MOS. ” So for now, the minimum Army standard is a 140-pound deadlift, a 4.6-meter power throw, 10 release push-ups, 3:35 minutes on the sprint-drag-carry, one leg tuck and a two-mile run in no more than 21:07 minutes.

    For the combat MOSs or units, it’ll be a 180-pound deadlift, a 8.5-meter power throw, 30 push-ups, 2:09 sprint-drag-carry, five leg tucks and 18 minutes for the run. While those times are certainly slower than the scoring for the existing APFT, leaders are taking into account that soldiers are going right into the run following five other taxing events.”

    So a clerk won’t have to do more than meet Army minimum while infantry has a higher standard.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @YetAnotherAnon
  29. NickG says:
    @Tyrion 2

    They are even allowing women to join the Royal Marines; though I don’t know if there have been any takers for the tough 32 week Commando course – certainly one of the toughest intro courses in NATO – never mind the highly selective 18 months Royal Marine officer course.

    Overview of PRMC Potential Royal Marines Course – the selection course for the start of 32 week basic training

    I fully expect there to be pressure to reduce standards.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  30. anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:

    What enemy doesn’t care?

    I know I care if my physically violent enemy is a 24 year old man or a 96 year old woman

  31. anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    This has happened in America.

    The fighting military is the all white male spec ops units. The rest is just a welfare scam.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  32. theMann says:
    @Tyrion 2

    “I suppose what this means is that Special Forces will become our actual deployable force and the Army will become a joke/kindergarten/madhouse”.

    The Navy too, unfortunately. The difference is that while Seals\Pilots remain first rate, and submariners…..maybe, the crews of surface vessels have nowhere to hide the incompetent, and no way to avoid disastrous fraternization in close quarters. And a kindergarten madhouse pretty much defines the current state of Navy surface vessels. Just don’t say it out loud because you will be looking at Mast\Court Martial. Such is the state of the military, that telling the truth about simple and obvious things will result in severe punishments.

    Oh well, between ever better submarines below, and hypersonic missiles above, surface vessels may be completely obsolete anyway. And there may be a far more sinister plan in action – a major surface vessel goes down with its crew, and that crew is 25% female, it makes it much easier to immediately escalate to tactical nuclear weapons and stifle much of the criticism that would otherwise erupt.

  33. BB753 says:

    Yeah, the enemy don’t care whether your troops are fit, competent and combat ready or a clueless mass of fat, middle-aged empowered wymyn and assorted losers who couldn’t fight if their lives depended on it.
    In the end, it doesn’t make a difference, sure.

    Meet the silly toffer who’s Britain’s current defence minister :

    https://www.dw.com/en/gavin-williamson-britains-ambitious-new-defense-secretary/a-41216718

  34. Yet another reason to get out of NATO. The Brits have us as their defense backstop, so they can do dumb progressive shit like this basically on our dime, since their NATO contribution doesn’t come close to covering the real value of the U.S. defense umbrella. What’s hilarious is that Britain is still a very martial country. Their recent “scallop war” with France brought out some highly amusing comments in the major papers, with most posters falling into the “let’s sort out the Frenchies” category.

    • Replies: @g2k
  35. @Tyrion 2

    I suppose what this means is that Special Forces will become our actual deployable force and the Army will become a joke/kindergarten/madhouse. The comparison with the change in status of undergraduate and graduate degrees over the last few years is potentially analogous.

    I think that is the current situation. Which will last until the Special Forces collapse from exhaustion or the progs start hitting special forces for disparate impact.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  36. istevefan says:

    It seems like the Brits are going to give the 1970′s Dutch Army a run for their money. I thought no army could get any more loony than the Netherlands did in the 70s.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Lot
  37. Anon7 says:

    Did you say “age neutral”? At last! We’ve found a use for Joe Biden and Diane Feinstein and HRC and Bernie!

    “Over there, over there
    Send the word, send the word over there
    That the Yanks are coming
    The Yanks are coming…”

  38. Fortunately, Britain’s next war is scheduled with the Oberlin College gender studies department.

    Hmmm… who’d win?

    In more optimistic news, the few things named after Bill Clinton are in backwaters like Kosovo, Northern Ireland, and Little Rock.

    Category:Places and things named after Bill Clinton

    Category:Places and things named after Hillary Rodham Clinton

    • Replies: @Big Bill
    , @Rohirrimborn
  39. @istevefan

    Interestingly, most of those men were drafted. And in a union!

    The Netherlands went the American way in the ’90s. Men are still registered, but conscription itself is in standby mode.

  40. @Ali Choudhury

    I would not be surprised if standards were weakened, the armed forces have had difficulty recruiting thanks to budget cuts.

    I think drop offs in recruitment is that fewer and fewer citizens *care* about their increasingly meaningless “nations”.

    When you break your nation with “diversity”, make it clear the state hates the people, and make your armed forces full of PC nonsense … why should anyone join?

    Who wants to get low pay, restricted freedom and put up with PC hectoring to be an arm of the state to “defend the nation” that it is in the process of destroying?

    Give the army the job of actually defending the borders of the nation and driving out foreigners and i’d bet you’d see recruitment soar through the roof!

  41. @Ali Choudhury

    It’s not just that, won’t standards have to be lowered for all the fatties too? Probably only 1/3 of young people in the U.S/UK are fit by traditional army standards, that number will surely keep shrinking every year. They won’t have any recruits soon enough unless they make the qualifying run times easier.

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
  42. Most women cannot perform one standard pull up. Standard pull ups are a good indicator of success for wall-climbing. When beating a hasty tactical retreat, women soldiers would empower such a retreat by her squad leaving her behind as a strategic move.

    A typical Afghan unit, often an undisciplined lot, in pursuit of our soldiers executing a retreat would hesitate, if not stop their pursuit, if a ripe female infidel was left behind for a gang-raping, thereby allowing our retreating squad to increase their distance from their pursuer’s, making their escape far more likely to end successfully.

    This is why we should encourage special requirements for female soldiers to not have to execute any standard pull-ups. Countless real soldiers lives can be spared, while diversity quotas are easily met.

    Female combat soldiers are an indispensable strategic asset in rape-oriented countries, and dismissing this qualifiable fact will cost countless American lives.

    We should not “weed out” aspiring cadets because they are overweight, low-IQ, demented liberal lesbians. Rather, we should step up recruitment efforts to enlist MORE overweight, low-IQ, demented liberal lesbians. And trannies too! Afghans out in the field are not as discriminating as the average western soldier. Another strategic plus that should not be underestimated.

    • LOL: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  43. @Tyrion 2

    If those 1.5 mile qualifying times are correct the British army must be much fitter than the American army. They only expect young men to maintain an 7.55 minute mile pace for 2 miles and women a 9:55 minute mile pace to meet minimum standards. Over 25 and they get to go even slower.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  44. anon[133] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I suppose what this means is that Special Forces will become our actual deployable force and the Army will become a joke/kindergarten/madhouse.

    And yet, according to some bloke on Joe Rogan, US special forces are unable to find enough new recruits these days. Mainly due to widespread fatness among the young. I don’t see why the situation would be any different in Britain.

  45. Lot says:
    @27 year old

    Don’t worry we’ll have her back by 11.

    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    , @Trevor H.
  46. Alfa158 says:

    “because the enemy does not care what sex or how old a soldier is.” That’s patently false. I know that I would prefer my combat enemies to be as feeble as possible.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  47. Whiskey says: • Website

    Putin must wonder, even with the Russian army so bad, why not take Berlin, Paris and London. He could play off grateful natives against immavaders. Gays and women a fighting force do not make.

    Women are the eternal and natural enemy of White men.

  48. GSR says:

    Agreed. I thought “gender neutral” meant one test, for males and females, which would make it very difficult for females to pass.

  49. El Dato says:

    Yeah, those guys are not into doing safe zones in a decaying Yougoslavia.

  50. Nuclear weapons brought peace to Europe, not the European Union nor the American Empire troops garrisoned there.

    The English Army is most likely led by the same kind of brain-dead pukes who lead the US military. The DEEP STATE rats of England and the United States wouldn’t let anybody advance too far in the military if they evinced any signs of being a patriot who wants to protect their own nations by halting immigration and deporting illegal aliens and other foreigners.

    At least the German DEEP STATE had a Kraut in the intelligence branch — or protection of the constitution scam — that was highly aware that Merkel’s mass immigration invasion plot was a threat to German national security and, indeed, a threat to the continued existence of Germany as a home for the German people.

    Who needs deceased anti-German rat boy Morgenthau when Merkel is flooding out the Germans with non-European foreigners?

    Frauke Petry is an interesting woman, unlike that boring Blasey Ford twat in the news in the USA.

    • Replies: @NickG
  51. Give the army the job of actually defending the borders of the nation and driving out foreigners and i’d bet you’d see recruitment soar through the roof!

    I don’t think so. The army in the UK and also to some extent in the US is mostly a kind of technical college for the nonacademic where people can learn skills that will later translate into safe civilian jobs where a military record translates into some kind of hiring preference or matches a skill set that is in demand that usually does not include shooting and bombing.

    My niece became an army officer and knew Prince Harry socially, then quit the army when they wanted to send her to lead truck convoys in Afghanistan. However she then landed a nice job in counterintelligence law enforcement.

    My cousin joined up as a private, became a truck driver, and then ended up retiring as a red London bus driver. He now spends his days of leisure Facebooking pictures of pubs and sunsets and showing little interest in killing people.

    My uncle was a career officer and company leader at a young age. Something to do with a misunderstanding about someone else’s wife came up and he left the service. He then commanded a taxi company.

    There are many career pathways of this nature. For example air force personnel may well be hired by airlines, and then their are jobs in police forces, customs, immigration, law enforcement of various kinds, prisons, food service in large institutions, facilities maintenance, whatever.

    Offering the opportunity to kill people is probably a negative from a recruitment point of view.

  52. @Tyrion 2

    For example, the 1.5 mile run in shorts and trainers on a hard flat surface needed to be completed in 10 mins 30 seconds for men and 13 minutes for women.

    That is 7-minute mile pace for men, which is not particularly hard for a fit young man, but stiffish for someone who is unathletic or overweight. The women are required to run at 8 minute 40 second pace, which is jogging pace.

    Roman soldiers were required to march 20 miles per day at about 15 minutes per mile pace, however they had to carry a 50 lbs pack, which would have put the brakes on a bit. I think they wore skirts and sandals rather than shorts and trainers.

    Bring back skirts and sandals!

  53. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    He didn’t say anything about killing people.

  54. @Tyrion 2

    “I suppose what this means is that Special Forces will become our actual deployable force……”

    Yes, that and the Milwall football hooligans.

    On the bright side, the new policy doesn’t lend itself so easily to mass mischief like Iraq or Afghanistan.

  55. Abon says:
    @27 year old

    I don’t know if this true or not. Napoleon ‘s army in Egypt had a lot of wife’s and viviandries (women cooks) w
    When the French lost battles the Muslims raped the French men not women.

  56. arthritis says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Wait a minute, I’m supposed to be able to lift 154 lbs. for 3 seconds? I don’t believe I’ve ever been able to do that, and I played varsity football and baseball.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @g2k
  57. Rod1963 says:
    @AnotherDad

    I think drop offs in recruitment is that fewer and fewer citizens *care* about their increasingly meaningless “nations”.

    Yes but also the pool of physically fit males is shrinking as well. Since public schools got rid of PE in favor of useless classes like computer programming/robotics(which only a tiny percent can actually benefit from). It’s created a lots of very sedentary noodle armed boys and many are on ADD meds because they can’t burn off their physical energy.

    And those kids on ADD cannot be recruited.

    Look at all the high IQ types in Silicon Valley, they are all physically decrepit. They have the bodies of 100 year old men. Same with all the soy boys. Just total train wrecks as men.

    When you break your nation with “diversity”, make it clear the state hates the people, and make your armed forces full of PC nonsense … why should anyone join?

    No doubt that’s playing a role in this as well. Worse the military treats it’s own men like shit. When the Iraq war was going full tilt boogie, the Army did everything to keep qualified combat men from leaving. As soon as the war stopped. They shit canned them for the slightest of infractions. All the experienced enlisted and officers went bye bye.

    And when the USAF decided to draw dowm the first thing they did was to shit can their experienced aircraft mechanics and technicians by the thousands. You know the people who keep those $100 million dollar jets working. Now they are going WTF and what do we do about it,

  58. @Jonathan Mason

    That’s my thought. 19 year old me could run 8 miles at a 7.5 pace as a moderate workout. Middle aged me can’t run all the way to the bus stop. How times change.

  59. Abon says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    You’re right. About half the cooks in America from 1946 till they retired in the 1980s learned their trade in the army. An uncle was a medic. He learned hospital administration and had a great career.

    Join the army and learn a trade

  60. Abon says:

    More than half military occupations aren’t combat. There are plenty of jobs for women.
    This BS about putting women in combat is just more rich lady feminazis and their ridiculous crusades.

  61. You had to strangle a lion with a black mamba and then do 75 pullups just to get into the selection program for my old South African Defence Force unit, and I still think those are fine minimum requirements;-)

    Seriously, though, it is sad to hear that an institution as fine as the British Army has come to this.

  62. Pat Boyle says:
    @Lot

    Do I detect the glimmer of a smile of the face of the goat?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  63. Trevor H. says:
    @Lot

    That is vile. The poor goat doesn’t know that the spinning wheel poses a lethal threat to its paws. Among other things. But yeah, another in the endless series of Muslim bashing posts by the Jewish “Lot” for you white people to snicker at..

    • Replies: @Lot
  64. eah says:

    It bears repeating: the average 80 y/o male is stronger (as measured by combined grip strength) than the average female of any age.

    Nothing could be more obvious than that women are unsuitable for demanding physical conditions like those expected during military operations, including/especially combat.

    • Replies: @eah
  65. Pat Boyle says:

    There’s no getting around it. Women are small and weak.

    When the Japanese invented the sport which we now call “Ninja Warrior” they devised a competition in which only Japanese men could compete successfully. Occasionally a Chinese guy would do well but the big bulky Americans always failed.

    Then it became Americanized. American Ninja Warrior no longer only favors Asians. White men, yellow men and black men can all do well but they have had to compromise with women.

    In the original Asian design the principal mechanism for excluding all other races was the preponderance of body support events. If you had a set of events that relied on foot speed all the winners would be Africans. The Japanese included no running events. If they include lifting events then it would be like the “World’s Strongest Man” show where Slavs and Nordics dominate.

    So the Japanese developed a set of events where you had to support your own weight like a rock climber. No one 300 lbs or more has ever solo climbed El Capitan. The Japanese super star Makoto Nagano was about 120 lbs. He was finally beaten by a smaller guy yet.

    The American version has added event in which the contestant’s wing span matters so the tiny Japanese no longer are the only ones who can finish the course. But upper body strength still matters.

    That’s why women can’t win. The Japanese realized this years ago and developed a whole different set of events for the ladies, They had more balance events and fewer ones where you pulled yourself up with only your arms. But in America we can’t have a different test for the sexes. This means women compete on the same course but do significantly less well. So they get scored separately. I don’t think they do drug tests so it’s likely the girls are thoroughly juiced up on testosterone. Still it’s not enough.

    Girls are small and weak.

  66. @Jonathan Mason

    Bring back skirts and sandals!

    I’m concerned that the army might be doing a little too much to attract fighting men who like skirts, in order to appease the sort of people who wear sandals.

  67. 1661er says:
    @AnotherDad

    What I heard is that the post-separation job opportunity had cratered. Used to be that if you had some tip-of-spear positions in British Army/RAF/RN/RN, you can quit and earn big bucks guarding rich foreigners in London and their country piles.

    Between Br-Exit, dropping UKP, corruption crack downs, and changing international relation, etc. There are less demands for “ex SAS bodyguard” as a status symbol jobs in London since this piece was published in 2016.

    https://www.tatler.com/gallery/how-posh-is-your-bodyguard

    I’d start with security men Jack Mann and James Glancy. Both 33, they are at the forefront of London’s booming private-security trade (worth more than £6bn, up from £2bn in 2004),

    A big spender named in that article had since moved away from UK

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/israel-admits-a-refugee/

    So if you are a young Rahm Emanuel type in UK, one would more likely to join IDF/Mosad rather than British Army for the chance to earn those sweet “close protection” money in the future.

  68. gunner29 says:

    US Army is having problems getting anybody to go into the infantry; you know, the pointed end of the spear. Currently, if you’re not bright enough to do something that requires a little bit more of the brains than brawn, by default you’re infantry.

    This is in line with John Kerry’s remark about not getting into college and getting drafted.

    They’re getting a major PR outfit to come up with a new slogan and campaign to convince the bright ones it’s better in a trench than a climate controlled office with a warm bed at night. And no shooting!

    Good luck with that! LOL

  69. Pat Boyle says:

    Maybe it won’t matter. Maybe our soldiers when they deploy to fight some enemy will just stay in the office.

    It seems clear to me that fighter pilots are a dying breed. It now cost $130 billion for a single F-22 raptor. Jet planes keep getting better but unmanned drones are evolving at a faster pace. It’s like people and their gut microbes. People evolve but the bugs in your tummy evolve faster.

    Fighter jets are limited by their human pilot component. What is the ‘G’ limit for humans? About six , I think? With solid state circuitry was is it for an unmanned plane? So it doesn’t take much imagination to develop fighter tactics against an opponent who still has a human on board. Just pull a turn that makes him go to sleep.

    When drones get a little better no human will dare go up against them.

    The US, England and Japan all competed for who had the biggest and baddest battleship. Then suddenly overnight it no longer mattered. The same thing may happen to tanks. Just as the F-22 Raptor may be the last human piloted fighter, the Abrams tank may be the last US tank with a human inside. Now I’m not privy to the military secrets, I don’t know what’s on the drawing boards but to me it looks like all human run tanks are through just as Keith Laumer always said.

    Humans take up room in tanks. All present day tanks have a big hollow space where the humans stay. Anti-tank weapons try to breach the armor and intrude into that space.Surely a solid state tank makes more sense. WWII tanks had a lot of frontal armor – not so much on the top or the bottom or the sides and back. Eliminate the crew and can have a low profile tank. In the Cold War the Russians built a tank so low the crew couldn’t be taller than 5’6″. Unlike the Star Wars “Imperial Walkers” land weapons should be as low as possible but we are already about as low as we can go.

    Tankers of the future are likely to do battle from their Barca lounger at home or the office. Push ups won’t matter.

  70. @27 year old

    Afghanis

    Afghans! Afghans! Speak English.

    Think of rugs and sweaters and blankets and hounds.

    Not together, though. Goats are halal, hounds haram.

    • LOL: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  71. @Pat Boyle

    Do I detect the glimmer of a smile of the face of the goat?

    They promised her it wouldn’t go beyond yoga. Little does she know…

  72. @AnotherDad

    If recruits were keen on that work they’d join the Border Force instead. It’s not very glamorous, not so much defending Hadrian’s wall more like surprise checks on fried chicken shops to see the staff have their papers in order.

  73. @Pat Boyle

    Back in the early 1980s, the NASA-Rockwell HiMAT drone could pull nearly double the g’s an F-16 could.

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstrong/news/FactSheets/FS-025-DFRC.html

    At near the speed of sound and at an altitude of 25,000 feet, the HiMAT vehicle could substain an 8-G turn (that is, one producing acceleration equal to 8 times that of gravity). By comparison, at the same altitude, an F-16′s maximum sustained turning capability is about 4.5 Gs.

    And yes, continuing investment into manned fighter aircraft programs is dumb. Would you rather have a squadron of 12 F-22s or a fleet/swarm of several hundred drones? It is also much cheaper to train drone pilots than manned fighter pilots.

    That said, there are powerful forces that keep manned fighter aircraft programs alive. One is that they do create a lot of money and jobs at many levels and places in society. Look at how far-flung the F-35 program is for a current example.

    Another powerful force is sheer nostalgia for pilots as, “knights of the sky.” People buy into that myth. Heck, look at how many people still love Top Gun, a nearly four-decade old film that is a love song to the job of fighter pilot.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  74. Twinkie says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Afghans! Afghans! Speak English.

    Yup. An Afghani is the currency. In the old days, it also meant a foreign (non-Afghan) Islamic fighter who fought in Afghanistan.

    • Agree: Autochthon
    • Replies: @Autochthon
  75. @Tyrion 2

    The 7th and 8th graders on the cross country team at school are running 1.5 miles in less than 10:30, boys and girls. That is not fast, but it is healthy. What the hell is this that reasonably healthy folks wanting to join the military can’t run any faster than that? The enemy won’t need to discriminate; they will be shooting fish in a barrel.

    As an aside, I did recently read that if you can run a 5 minute mile, the USA military doesn’t require you to meet any other fitness metrics because on their point based system, you get enough points just by having such a low time on the mile.

  76. @Jonathan Mason

    My niece became an army officer and knew Prince Harry socially, then quit the army when they wanted to send her to lead truck convoys in Afghanistan.

    Why wasn’t she shot for desertion?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  77. L Woods says:
    @Pat Boyle

    The presence of women nonetheless and regardless spoils the small-unit dynamic possible only in small all-male groups. This, far more than disparities in physical prowess, is why women don’t belong near anything vaguely combat related (including aircrews, for example).

    • Replies: @Lurker
  78. @Abon

    More than half military occupations aren’t combat.

    This is true.

    There are plenty of folks, “in the rear, with the gear.” who are in the military.

    REMFs – Rear Echelon Mother F—ers is the crude version.

    Huge difference between these people, who perform what are essentially office jobs, and the infantry, tank crews, pilots, and most of all special operations.

  79. @Abon

    This BS about putting women in combat is just more rich lady feminazis and their ridiculous crusades.

    Not really. IIRC, you need a combat command to advance into the general officers’ ranks. It’s not about GI Jane becoming a Ranger and doing a Seargent York in Iraq as much as it is about someone like the military version of lesbo Cressida Dick getting her promotion ticket punched.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  80. Big Bill says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    What about the big Bill Clinton statue in Eastern Europe? Can’t remember the place, but I do remember seeing the photo.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  81. @The Wild Geese Howard

    That said, there are powerful forces that keep manned fighter aircraft programs alive.

    The fighter mafia still controls the USAF; they refer to the transport guys as “trash haulers”. I am sure they will dominate the new Space Force too.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  82. @Big Bill

    In Pristina, Kosovo.

    There are also Bill Clinton statues in South Dakota and Ballybunion, Ireland (teeing off).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  83. Tex says:

    But in a new scientific overhaul of basic training, the British Army revealed yesterday that combat training will become “gender and age neutral” – because the enemy does not care what sex or how old a soldier is.

    Hear, hear! It’s about time the British Army adopted the standards of warlord militia and fill up the ranks with as much cannon fodder as they can get. If an eight-year old can heft an AK-47, then they can serve in the Duke of Cornwall’s Parachute Hussars. After all, fatties and small children are autonomous individuals who can make their own choice about taking the king’s shilling.

    Sincerely,

    Rear Admiral Reginald Picklesthwick-Notfinger, (Ret.)

    PS, I’d strongly advise negotiating a peaceful settlement with the Oberlin Gender Studies Department. I hear they’ve got a pointed stick.

    • Replies: @Lurker
  84. @Jonathan Mason

    He now spends his days of leisure Facebooking pictures of pubs and sunsets and showing little interest in killing people.

    It’s always the quiet ones …

  85. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Only about 10% are actually at the tip of the spear. And most of them are white males.

  86. @Pat Boyle

    Maybe our soldiers when they deploy to fight some enemy will just stay in the office.

    Fit flesh-and-blood war fighters are necessary if you want to lock down territory that has (potentially hostile) civilian non-combatants. Under current ROE an armed roboforce would be limited to seaborne and fixed asset defense, pinpoint direct action, and battles against massed hostiles.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
  87. anon[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @27 year old

    Afghanis (and many Arab peoples) rape men women and goats at about equal rates

    It says a lot about a people when they rape goats.

  88. @Joe Schmoe

    Why wasn’t she shot for desertion?

    Once you start shooting female officers, it is not a good look from the recruitment perspective.

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
  89. @anon

    It says a lot about a people when they rape goats.

    The problem is only when it’s not consentual. As we’ve been told time and again, baaaa means baaaa!

  90. @Steve Sailer

    There are also Bill Clinton statues in South Dakota…

    Please tell me it’s on an Indian reservation.

    …and Ballybunion, Ireland (teeing off).

    That sounds like a medical condition from too much time at the pinball arcade.

    And that statue is almost appropriate, considering how often we were teed off at him.

  91. @anon

    It says a lot about a people when they rape goats.

    And get excited when there is a new kid in town?

  92. @anon

    It says a lot about a people when they rape goats.

    Derb directed us to a classic joke. Here’s a typical retelling, though it’s supposed to be about a Scot.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/26pf4s/an_irishman_at_the_bar_heavy_npr_listeners_might/

  93. @utu

    Japan’s Two Hopping Rovers Successfully Land on Asteroid Ryugu

    That sounds right out of the zoo section of a porn video catalogue.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  94. Anonymous[660] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfa158

    I’d want them to be gender-diverse (i.e. all female), though I’m a bit of an ageist and discriminate against the lifespan-challenged, so young is preferable.

    Then again, my enemies being young females, I’d prefer to capture them alive and in one piece, so I’d run a greater risk of being killed by not going all-out on them. Plus, there’s always the posthumous shame of losing a fight against a woman!

  95. prosa123 says: • Website
    @an anonymous reader

    “the sort of crossfit type females who are in excellent shape, especially on paper using the old gendered standard, yet are almost worse than useless on the battlefield due to an inability to carry much more than themselves”

    You are HUGELY underestimating the strength of the women who participate in Crossfit or do similar types of exercise.

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    , @Twinkie
  96. Hibernian says:
    @Clive Beaconsfield

    Contrary to popular belief they don’t have women in combat. They tried it and declared it a failed experiment.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    , @Dan Hayes
  97. Hibernian says:
    @Fredrik

    Our Army equalized male and female situp standards to say they had equal standards for one event, which is as silly as you can get. Previously women had to meet higher standards in this event; they were better at it due to evolution of women’s hip and possibly abdominal muscles relative to men. I witnessed this personally during my last days in the Illinois Army National Guard.

  98. Hibernian says:
    @Chris Mallory

    I think the best system would be MOS based and sex & age based minimums with soldiers/Marines/sailors/airmen/Coasties having to meet the higher of the two that apply to them. No old infantrymen held to only minimal standards because of age and 17-21 y.o. male support personnel would have to be all that they could be and supply extra strength for putting up and taking down tents and for the usually remote chance that they may have to engage the enemy.

  99. Female gymnasts can do both of those things, so this isn’t gender-neutral; it’s mollycoddling.

  100. @Hibernian

    I’ve heard about that. The problem wasn’t that they wouldn’t fight fiercely; it was that the men didn’t want to leave them behind to be raped, even if the success of a mission depended on it.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @gunner29
  101. @Tyrion 2

    That cheerleader who kicked the crap out of a school bully could pass that test, if she’s held up pyramids.

  102. Hibernian says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    In Iraq mechanics, including women, became drivers, who went out on the roads in convoys. They were made into drivers because they had been trained to drive the vehicles they fixed. The type of war being fought didn’t need as many mechanics as the massive battles on the plains of Northern Europe the Army force structure was designed for. The notion of support troops being a bunch of office workers is more than a little exaggerated, at least concerning deployed troops.

  103. Dan Hayes says:
    @Hibernian

    Hibernian:

    In agreement with you: an IDF General (it wasn’t Moshe Dayan) once declared that any army attempting to use women in combat wasn’t a serious force.

    Armies use women in combat only in desperation, e.g. early Israel.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @BB753
  104. Hibernian says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    The rich lady SJWs are Cressida’s political allies.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @unpc downunder
  105. Sentence #1 and sentence #2 of the Telegraph story are completely unrelated. What does one have to do with the other?

  106. @Pat Boyle

    Strong empowered Antifa female don’t need no man!

    https://i.imgur.com/sxN1OUV.gifv

  107. @Ali Choudhury

    No, this is not a parody. This is an actual recruiting video for the Army of the nation where Britain used to be:

  108. @Anon

    What’s the deal with long marches carrying lots of weight? Maybe you can explain it to us. They’re big on that in Israel too, where presumably there’s less room for bullshit military ideas, because Israel has no strategic depth.

    I talked to an Israeli guy in his late 60s, a veteran of two major wars. But he doesn’t know the reason either; he says the wars were nothing like the training; he and his equipment got ferried to the front in trucks and APVs. He was in some kind of infantry unit.

  109. @S. Anonyia

    “What if I get emotional in the Army?”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42629529

    The crying Para at the end is the perfect touch.

    Do these euros have any idea just how ridiculous they look?

  110. No, an ‘enemy’ does not ‘discriminate’ – ie. they will not spare women, nor males either, who don’t measure up to conventional military fitness standards simply because they’re female, pooftah’s, or nanny boys!

  111. @Tyrion 2

    And the same $#!t is afoot in American Special Forces, as well. However, “they” are being slightly more clever by lowering/eliminating standards BEFORE women apply, so that there can be no claims that feminists lowered the bar to suit females:

    https://thenewsrep.com/94786/careerism-cronyism-malfeasance-special-warfare-center-end-special-forces-capability/

    Long read, but worth it.

  112. @Twinkie

    Dude, I take the piss from you a lot. I think you think at least half of what I say implies something I don’t mean it to, and the other half I am just taking the piss. I actually expect we would be good friends if we were neighbours.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  113. gunner29 says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    I’ve heard about that. The problem wasn’t that they wouldn’t fight fiercely; it was that the men didn’t want to leave them behind to be raped, even if the success of a mission depended on it.

    During the War of Jewish Aggression in ’47, the womyn would get wounded and be squealing with their high pitched voices for somebody to help them!

    So Moshe and the boys would run out, get shot up and now there were 4 of them out there wailing.

    You weren’t going to get the womyn to ‘take the pain’ like Sgt. Barnes ordered, so it was get the womyn out of anywhere there’s shootin’.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  114. Lurker says:
    @Ibound1

    In absolute terms; UK is the biggest spender in NATO behind the US.

    In expenditure as a percentage of GDP – Greece spends more, Estonia the same and Poland slightly less than the UK.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/07/10/defense-expenditure-of-nato-members-visualized-infographic/#7ba8896b14cf

    • Replies: @Ibound1
  115. Lurker says:
    @Tex

    I’d strongly advise negotiating a peaceful settlement with the Oberlin Gender Studies Department. I hear they’ve got a pointed stick.

    More ominously, it is claimed they have a force of Lena Dunham clones hidden in an underground bunker.

  116. @tyrone

    But will the government have quotas for woman programmers writing the robots ai?

    • Replies: @tyrone
  117. @Lurker

    Lena Dunham is like Hulga in Flannery O’Connor’s “Good Country People.” She tries to be uglier than she has to be. I actually saw some pics where her hair had grown to chin length and she was wearing nice eye makeup and an outfit chosen by a wise stylist. So of course she got some awful haircut later and was posing, bare-faced and bare-bodied, in the most awkward positions possible, I suppose as her personal “s0d off” to the male gaze. Not that the female gaze is all that intrigued, except for some college girls who used to watch her show.

    • Replies: @Lurker
  118. akokral says:
    @LondonBob

    I am millennial. I do not understand why are not women 50% of solders. If they do not pass fitness test, well they can still hold rifle. I have talked about this issue with my friends. We really don’t see problem women being half of the front lines units.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  119. Dan Hayes says:
    @Hibernian

    Hibernian:

    Cressida Dick is endowed with the name and the face of an SJW extraordinaire.

    I first was enlightened about the nefarious background and activities of this fair creature through the Good Hitchens, that is the DM’s Peter Hitchens.

  120. Neoconned says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Yep…..the blonde pow from the Iraq invasion…..jessica something comes to mind….

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  121. Neoconned says:

    I’m not exaggerating when I say this but the Argentines should just wait a few decades.

    A Hindu and gay white and Islamic coalition parliament will hand them the Falklands and the Sandwich islands for nothing.

    The Iron Lady is dead. The UK is at best a quasi gay unit of the eu at this point and very little else. ..

    • Replies: @dvorak
  122. Tyrion 2 says:
    @NickG

    They did that 10 years ago with the Commando and Parachutist courses. The test case women, picked for particular fitness, were allowed to “get injured” and start again, at the same week and day, fully rested and recovered.

    Of course the difficulty of those courses is not really in the individual events but in the cumulative strain. Not that the lowering of standards was reported in the inevitable “you go girl” bizarre propaganda.

    I get why there’s huge discrimination in favour of women in roles like Member of Parliament. I may not agree with it but at least it is for a pretty great job. Infantry soldier isn’t though. What’s the point? To revel in the fake fact that one’s sex is also manly?

    • Replies: @NickG
    , @lavoisier
    , @NickG
  123. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Samuel Skinner

    A few years ago, various senior officers werealready tasked at looking into how to make SF selection achievable by women. Judging on the timeline from that scoping to actual implementation as it happened for the infantry, we have 5 years left.

    Still, SF are protected a little by the difficulty of discussing them publically. Otoh, doubtless they will become exhausted trying to be the actual military as a well as the special forces.

  124. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Dan Hayes

    In agreement with you: an IDF General (it wasn’t Moshe Dayan) once declared that any army attempting to use women in combat wasn’t a serious force.

    Armies use women in combat only in desperation, e.g. early Israel.

    Yes, you do it ahout the same time you also arm your children, which is precisely what the Israelis had to do.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  125. NickG says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Of course the difficulty of those courses is not really in the individual events but in the cumulative strain.

    The individual evolutions are tough enough, but it is true that the cumulative effect, of sleep deprivation plus the endless cold wet and miserable thing and sheer cumulative stress on your body takes it to a different level. I did the officer’s course back in 1980.

    Back in 1980 Prince Andrew, then a naval officer, was awarded the green commando beret, despite having clearly failed some of the tests – I know he took over 10 hours to complete the last test – the 30 miler carrying weapon and kit navigating across Dartmoor. Officer time for that is 7 hours. The occasional publicity pass is not really a biggie, it is the systemic special treatment of women and attempt to get them in that that will really screw capability.

    There is a big push to get women represented significantly if not proportionally in senior military command positions – female generals. So the post modernists have to address the feed to the senior officer ranks by getting women through it somehow.

  126. @NickG

    How’d Prince Andrew do in the Falklands?

    • Replies: @Lurker
    , @NickG
  127. @International Jew

    “What’s the deal with long marches carrying lots of weight? Maybe you can explain it to us. They’re big on that in Israel too…”

    Can’t speak for the Israelis, but “long marches carrying lots of weight” were central to many Rhodesian SAS & Selous Scout operations, and certainly also in South African Defence Force units like 32 Battalion and the Recces. If you served in e.g. 5 Recce, you’d spend a lot of time doing long range reconnaissance in small teams up in Angola, and you’d carry everything you needed with you. There are plenty of books nowadays that describe such operations in considerable detail. See e.g.

    Koos Stadler, “Recce: Small Team Missions Behind Enemy Lines” (https://www.amazon.com/Recce-Small-Missions-Behind-Enemy/dp/1612004040)

    Hannes Wessels, “A Handful of Hard Men: The SAS and the Battle for Rhodesia” (https://www.amazon.com/Handful-Hard-Men-Battle-Rhodesia/dp/1612003451/ )

    Dennis Croukamp, “The Bush War In Rhodesia: The Extraordinary Combat Memoir of a Rhodesian Reconnaissance Specialist” (https://www.amazon.com/Bush-War-Rhodesia-Extraordinary-Reconnaissance/dp/1581606141 )

    Any of those books will help you understand why the ability to do long marches carrying a lot of weight is a big deal.

  128. Tyrion 2 says:
    @S. Anonyia

    Your female pace is the same as was expected of British infanteers with full kit (20kgs), helmet, boots and weapon…and anyone who only just passed would hardly be considered effective.

  129. Tyrion 2 says:
    @arthritis

    So you couldn’t hold up an average sized person…for 3 seconds? My wife can hold me up for 3 seconds and she hasn’t trained and I weigh considerably more than 70kgs.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
    , @Jonathan Mason
  130. g2k says:
    @LondonBob

    I think it’s a bit of both, if the female version that this replaced was easier, but just look at the numbers in the dm article. 50kgs for 2km in 40mins; just over 2mph, that’s walking pace. You’d have to be a very ‘girly girl’ to fail that.

  131. g2k says:
    @Ibound1

    Uncle sam will do the fighting for Europe because it’s still a prize worth having…. The EU’s combined gdp is slightly higher than that of the us and it’s which makes it very useful when the US wants to engage in economic warfare. If Europe had actual leaders and actual militaries then there would be a chance that at least some of them would exercise their independence which isnt what DC wants.

  132. g2k says:
    @arthritis

    We’re talking about lifting them off the ground, or out of a wrecked vehicle, not above your head.

  133. g2k says:
    @Bragadocious

    A lot of Americans here seem to think that all of this “dumb progressive shit” in Europe is an entirely European phenomenon. Yes, in general, most European countries are more economically leftist and have inferior gun rights, but the recent extreme sjwism we’re seeing now is an American import.

  134. Hank Yobo says:
    @International Jew

    The Parachute Regiment-Falklands.

    And, in the infantry, you need to carry the essentials with you lest the “trucks and APVs” are knocked out or captured. War hasn’t changed much for the infantryman in 2,000 years: it is still you against the enemy and the environment. Combat will remain unkind to social engineers.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  135. @Reg Cæsar

    I wish those were the only places. I have the honor of working in the William J. Clinton federal building at 1200 Pennsylvania NW. They ditched poor Ariel Rios, the ATF agent who died in the line of duty, for whom the building was previously named.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  136. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    She must be pretty strong I would think.

    One hundred fifty pounds does seem like a lot of weight to lift up from the ground.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  137. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    Same standards for everyone.

    About 10 percent of women will be as strong or stronger than the men who score one standard deviation below the mean. They can make the cut and should be allowed to serve in combat roles.

    For the others who cannot meet the requirements go into another line of work.

    The same principle applies for intellectual pursuits. Whatever the baseline requirement, require all individuals to meet that standard regardless of the color of their skin.

    Will we have equal outcomes? No.

    But we will have fairness.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  138. Brutusale says:
    @Anonymous

    Hey, it’s a reality that our armed forces have been fighting THESE guys for 17 years and can’t finish the deal.

    Judging from what I see right at this moment, there are plenty of women in America who lift 200 pounds just getting out of bed in the morning.

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
  139. Brutusale says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I remember reading that there were 7 REMFs for each bush-beater in Vietnam. It must be a substantially higher number now.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  140. @akokral

    It wasn’t that unusual to send the bullies and the misfits to the army in the 18th and 19th century in central Europe at least. In France, that was a open secret concerning thesoldiers of the “Legion Etrangère”.
    If they succeeded, even better, if not, well – they at least did no harm at home.

    (cf. Gottfried Keller, “Die Leute von Seldwyla”)

  141. @Lurker

    More ominously, it is claimed they have a force of Lena Dunham clones hidden in an underground bunker.

    One would have to equip troops with cyanide pills to take if captured so that they could avoid a fate worse than death.

  142. @Tyrion 2

    My wife can hold me up for 3 seconds and she hasn’t trained and I weigh considerably more than 70kgs.

    My step daughter can carry her grandfather for more than three seconds, and she is not quite ten years old. In mitigation, he is a small aged man and she is a big girl for her age.

  143. @Reg Cæsar

    “Japan’s Two Hopping Rovers Successfully Land on Asteroid Ryugu.” (utu)

    “That sounds right out of the zoo section of a porn video catalogue.” (Reg Caesar)

    Reg, your comment sounds like an echo of the Closing (DOORS, so to speak)) of the American Mind.-
    - I liked that sound – it made me smile, even.

    • Replies: @Anon
  144. @NickG

    Back in 1980 Prince Andrew, then a naval officer, was awarded the green commando beret, despite having clearly failed some of the tests – I know he took over 10 hours to complete the last test – the 30 miler carrying weapon and kit navigating across Dartmoor. Officer time for that is 7 hours.

    Navigation not being his strong suit, especially on Dartmoor which is infested with stampeding wild stallions and rams with deadly horns, not to mention deadly mires and bogs as per Hound of the Baskervilles.

    However if he had been given a well-formed female officer to walk ahead of him and lead the way, I believe he would have completed the journey well before lunch, then used a note from his mum to exercise the royal prerogative to work up an appetite before feasting on a Sainsbury’s meat and potato pie with lashings of gravy.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/429546/REVEALED-How-Prince-Andrew-loves-nothing-better-than-a-meat-and-potato-pie

  145. @Redneck farmer

    And then they come home with a little present from their captors.

  146. Ibound1 says:
    @Lurker

    The UK spends on defense at a fraction of the US rate, as do they all, and NATO adds nothing to our defense posture. Exactly who is Lithuania helping defend the US from?

    They do not take their defense seriously – our Pentagon does at our expense. I see no reason to continue this state of affairs. I would leave NATO, Korea, Japan, the Gulf and tell everyone good luck and then cut our defense spending by a third. Oh yeah – and put our army on the border of Mexico where it belongs – protecting us from an actual invasion.

  147. Coemgen says:
    @International Jew

    Long marches and long periods of standing in formation are probably “grit tests.” I’ve done both (disclaimer: without a heavy pack). They’re both combinations of physical discomfort and sheer boredom over many hours. The challenge is to stay focused (stay awake, etc). That is, in most cases, the “fall outs” are not due to a physical limitation (e.g., can’t run 7 minute mile) but due to lack of determination to complete the task (i.e., grit).

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  148. BB753 says:
    @Dan Hayes

    What about transexuals? According to Liberian military genius, General Butt-naked, trannies are impervious to bullets.

    • LOL: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  149. Perusing the snarky responses to a British tabloid’s article concerning combat standards has led me to wonder as to how many of the tough-typing keyboard warriors on this site have actually served in any branch of their respective nation’s armed forces, to say nothing of front-line service in a combat environment? I know Steve hasn’t, Ron Unz hasn’t, the contributor’s to that “VDARE” e-rag sure as hell haven’t, yet all are quite comfortable in debating the merits of combat arms from the comfort of their ergonomically designed cozy chairs. Same applies to the majority of those that comment in places such as this. Come to think of it, the comments squad also tend to boast that they’re banging hot strippers and international models. Yeah, you’re all FoS.

  150. Lurker says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    Yes, she actually has quite a pretty face and scrubs up quite well on occasion. But the rest of her, I’m not sure what can be done about that.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  151. Lurker says:
    @Steve Sailer

    As far as we can tell he did his part like the other helicopter pilots, he wasn’t involved in any ground action which is where Commando training might have been more relevant.

    I think once in action the noblesse oblige kicks in, he could not fail to do his duty in front of the others.

  152. Anon[991] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief

    stuff it you uppity kraut. just because you have been faggified doesn’t mean we are all about to be cucks.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  153. @Brutusale

    I remember reading that there were 7 REMFs for each bush-beater in Vietnam. It must be a substantially higher number now.

    Does REMF stand for Rear Echelon Mutha Phucka?

    Al Gore was a famed Vietnam War combat veteran who would spend months at a time in the enemy-occupied jungles of Vietnam. Maybe not?

    Al Gore Checks To See If There Is Mud In The Barrel Of His Gun:

    • LOL: Coemgen
  154. @Jonathan Mason

    I hope she got a dishonorable discharge. I am so tired of the all mercenary forces we now employ. We need to have the nobility leading the charges in battle else not even go. If the senator’s son is going to ditch when the battle is looming, then we shouldn’t be sending the plumber’s son either. Tech school my foot. They should train people in the course of their schooling such that they are employable by age 16-18.

  155. @prosa123

    I don’t know a thing about cross fit, but my son thinks it is a total joke and he played sports through high school and still works out and competes in some club sports in college, so he is kind of fit. So, my question is why is there this perception that cross fit is not really going to make one strong? Honest question. I don’t have any preconceived notions.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @prosa123
  156. @anonymous

    The fighting military is the all white male spec ops units. The rest is just a welfare scam.

    Military Keynesianism is welfare no different than KooKoo checks or BooBoo checks.

    The recipients of that military Keynesianism welfare will come close to killing you to keep their military Keynesianism gravy train going. That money-grubbing distaff slob named Hewson at Lockheed likes her millions of dollars that she got by being a welfare queen rip off artist war budget thief.

    My idea is to just say screw it, and double the war budget in one big binge before the global financial implosion hits again.

    It is unfortunate that sleazebags such as that General George Casey guy who played the crybaby game about “diversity” possibly becoming a casualty of the Fort Hood Islamic Terror Attack are allowed to retire with full pensions. I’d like to send that General Casey scumbag into exile in the middle of Africa. Let that Casey dirtbag enjoy some real “diversity.”

  157. @BB753

    I prefer to listen to Robbie Robertson’s “Ghost Dance” rather than to think for another second about your “Tranny Dance” comment.

    • Replies: @BB753
  158. anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:

    Nobody cares anymore. Who’re they going to fight anyway? Britain is over with; all the rest is nostalgia for a past that’s gone forever. There’s no point in trying to identify with them since they’re just an example of what we want to avoid.

  159. @Lurker

    Exercise would get rid of that lumpy, doughy look. Women can’t change things non-surgically if they’re naturally pear-shaped or don’t have much of a waist, but swimming, skiing, ice skating, or ballet will tone what a woman does have without building up bulky muscles. A woman who is active looks better even if her weight isn’t ideal.

    For that matter, most actors take dance class and things like fencing or other martial arts as a matter of course. How dedicated can she be to the craft if she doesn’t get that training?

  160. OFF TOPIC

    The CIA must be terminated.

    Let the NSA and the military intelligence agencies and a newly formed patriotic overseas intelligence agency take care of the national security interests of the United States.

    The human intelligence assholes at the CIA are corrupt and demented beyond repair. Fire them now and take away their pensions and any other benefits they expect to get.

    Andrew Jackson and George Washington would TERMINATE THE CIA NOW!

  161. Tyrion 2 says:
    @lavoisier

    They’re doing that. They’ve gutted the physical tests so it is “all equal”. Much like they did with school exams and turning a blind eye to extremely widespread cheating by those teaching less able students.

    As for having women in these roles, it is an added complication where the cost is greater than the paltry benefit; even without the cynical lowering of standards.

    This isn’t like only allowing one sex to own houses. It is only allowing one sex to get paid a crap wage to potentially go off and die in pointless wars in shithole countries.

    Blocking women from combat roles is an injustice somehow even smaller than only looking for women for your child’s nanny. Yes, in the latter case, brilliant potential male nannies may miss out…but the added complication and time just isn’t worth it.

  162. @Coemgen

    Right. Most SOF qualification courses are simply extended hazing to find out who Just Won’t Quit no matter what. That’s who they want.

  163. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Joe Schmoe

    Your son is being young and silly. Crossfit is perfectly good exercise. The biggest drawback is that it is done every day and is often very high impact. This can lead to injuries.

    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  164. @Neoconned

    Not much happened to Lynch. There was, however, an Army Chinook Pilot that was shot down by the Iraqis in Desert Storm. When they captured her, the rape began and didn’t end for several days. TPB hushed it up in hopes it would just go away.

  165. Pat Boyle says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I don’t know about that. You are projecting current military practices onto a very different future.

    The simplest way to use infantry robots at least in the beginning would be as ‘area denial’ devices. It will probably be a while before we have reliable friend or foe technology. And if you have to have an operator with a secure comm link that may also take a while.

    But we could make area denial robots with out either. Drop in robots that kill anything that moves. We could do something like that right now in the mountains of Afghanistan. Withdraw our troops and drop in these little killer bots. The Hindu Kush would no longer be an unassailable refuge for the enemy. Set the bots to kill everything above say 10,000 feet. The enemy would be forced to stay out of the mountains where it is difficult to get at them and then they would be vulnerable to conventional attack in the low lands.

    We could do the same thing with anthrax but when your policy changes you can just turn off robots with a button push whereas biological weapons can linger in the environment.

    What’s the point of “locking down territory”? That strikes me as an idea that proceeds from having to use humans as infantry. Soon we will have other options. We don’t want the resources of Afghanistan and we don’t want them as a colony.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  166. NickG says:
    @Steve Sailer

    He was a Sea King blue naval helicopter pilot (as apposed to the Sea King ‘junglies’, green troop carrying Sea Kings from the Commando helicopter force, piloted by Royal Marines or Commando trained Naval officers).

    I understand that Prince Andrew did well enough. He undertook some risky missions, including anti ship-missile (against French Exocet’s) decoy patrols for the British 2 carrier group.

    This drill involves putting the helicopter in a hover between the carrier group and any potential incoming ASM – anti ship missiles, likely to be launched from an Argentine Armada (navy) French supplied Super Etendard aircraft. ie Argentina. The low hovering helicopter subtends a bigger target to the incoming missile than a carrier. This would have had a considerable ‘pucker’ factor.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  167. @Rohirrimborn

    I have the honor of working in the William J. Clinton federal building at 1200 Pennsylvania NW.

    1200 Pennsylvania NW? Well, I did say backwaters, didn’t I?

    They ditched poor Ariel Rios…

    Why aren’t the Puerto Ricans up in arms over this? Oh… like Michiganians when they lost Toledo, it was the lack of Congressional representation.

    the ATF agent who died in the line of duty…

    For someone who lied in the line of duty. Hell, for someone who committed aggravated rape in the line of duty.

    Agent Rios was subsequently “honored” with a pool:

    https://www.congress.gov/crec/2013/09/10/modified/CREC-2013-09-10-pt1-PgS6324-2.htm

    We should start our own #MeTooToo crusade to have the name change reversed. Better yet (Rios now has another building) a Border Patrol agent.

  168. It will probably be a while before we have reliable friend or foe technology. And if you have to have an operator with a secure comm link that may also take a while.

    Try “never”.

    But we could make area denial robots with out either. Drop in robots that kill anything that moves.

    Yeah, I can see no way whatsoever that this could possibly come back and bite us in the ass /sarc

  169. prosa123 says: • Website
    @Joe Schmoe

    Crossfit works well because it creates a mutual-support atmosphere. The people in an ordinary commercial gym are basically doing their own thing, not really interacting with others unless they know each other and came as a group. No one especially cares how your session is going. Not to mention that many people who are seriously into weight training set up home gyms and train alone.

    Crossfire’s completely different. Each session operates on a communal basis, with everyone doing the same exercises (“workout of the day,” or “WOD”) and keeping track of how everyone else is doing. If you’re doing well, the other people are congratulating you; if you’re struggling, you get ample encouragement. This mutual-support atmosphere seems to work really well with women, and they tend to thrive in Crossfit.

  170. @Major Rape

    Problem is, liberal lesbians would never risk their lives to serve their country. They want other women to do it.

  171. tyrone says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome

    A women sitting at a desk can be verrrrrry dangerous

  172. @Hibernian

    This seems to be one of the main arguments of careerist progressives. Women can’t get promoted in the military unless they get combat experience, and to get combat experience the military need to lower the physical strength and fitness requirements.

    Maybe the military needs to deal with this prog interference by increasing the divisions between different parts of the military. Lower physical standards for women and older men, but only for certain roles, and allow people to get promotions through other means than combat service. And if women must go into combat roles, put them into female-only units where they are less of a practical problem.

    If the military insists that everyone must go through combat training, and ambitious female recruits must do combat service, then progs are going to continue to press for lower standards for everyone.

  173. @Chris Mallory

    “a two-mile run in no more than 21:07 minutes”

    That’s less than 6mph – I can go faster over two miles and I’m an overweight 61.

  174. @Pat Boyle

    You are projecting current military practices onto a very different future.

    Read again: “Under current ROE …” (Rules Of Engagement)

    In a hypothetical future where the various Geneva and Hague agreements are discarded by the major powers, anything goes—self-directed killer robots (LAWs), massive-scale lethal active/passive area denial, bioweapons, nukes, starvation blockades, etc. The real news wouldn’t be the new robot technology, it would be the radical change in ROE and resulting restriction/destruction of civilian activity in the subject territory.

    We could do something like that right now in the mountains of Afghanistan. Withdraw our troops and drop in these little killer bots.

    What “little killer bots”? How are they fueled/maintained? It’s cold up there.

    The enemy would be forced to stay out of the mountains where it is difficult to get at them and then they would be vulnerable to conventional attack in the low lands.

    Right, that’s what I wrote:

    “Fit flesh-and-blood war fighters are necessary if you want to lock down territory that has (potentially hostile) civilian non-combatants.”

    The enemy is mixed with civilians in lowland plains and valleys.

    What’s the point of “locking down territory”?

    Rare-earth mining rights, a Taco Bell in every village, and a conduit for invite-the-world immigration? I’m not the one making policy, you’ll have to ask the ones in charge.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  175. NickG says:
    @Anon

    Yup, but the US Marine corps alone, with 180,000 full timers, which uses 5% of the Department of Defense’s budget is bigger than the entire UK military – under 150,000.

  176. peterAUS says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Special Forces will become our actual deployable force and the Army will become a joke/kindergarten/madhouse.

    Something like that.
    SF will become deployable force (teeth) and the rest will be support (tail).

    Hi tech military doesn’t need, really, that many people at the sharp end.

    As long as that’s understood the effectivness shouldn’t be a problem.

    On practical level you have a S.A.S O.P. with close support of Para/Marines airborne/mechanized infantry and, effectively, directing fire from far away. That far away could have plenty of “civilian” type unfit personnel.
    Even artillery……..mechanized has the fire mission already stocked. Etc.

    I guess you understand what I am trying to say. I am sure that 90 % people here don’t.
    You could disagree, of course.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  177. peterAUS says:
    @Dr. X

    ..it’ll either be automated weapons systems or Special Forces units exempted from the P.C. bullshit and staffed almost entirely by very tough, physically fit white men.

    Pretty much.

    Now, there IS a potentially interesting and overlooked point there.
    Policing own population.

    Anyway………

  178. peterAUS says:
    @Hank Yobo

    Pretty much.
    Re weight/ruck thing one word only: ammunition.
    For those who don’t get it but don’t mind getting it, two words: fire and movement.

    When everything is said and done, well….some poor soul(s), say two guys, WILL have to get on that hill and sweep/check/secure it.
    Just one enemy there waking up from the blast, unable to run away…..50 meters…..

    Something like that.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  179. @peterAUS

    With automatic weapons, the more ammunition you have the more you can fire, and the more your enemies have to keep their heads down. So the more you can carry, the better.

  180. Tyrion 2 says:
    @peterAUS

    This is all true as long as everything is going to plan. The “everyone is a soldier first” mantra is for when it doesn’t. The military you describe is very fragile. It is also being chipped away at by the measures mentioned in the article above. Setting the physical test to a level that a 9 year old girl can pass is not a great sign!

    Ultimately, this is all so unnecessary. It is theologically driven. Perhaps historians will look back on this stuff the way we used to look back at the 19th Century Ottoman Empire when it read animal entrails to decide when to give battle. It is a sign that we are living on borrowed time.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  181. peterAUS says:
    @NickG

    Correct.
    Especially re Exocets and decoys.

    There WAS more though:

    Throughout the conflict Prince Andrew, alongside his fellow aviators, flew missions including: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW), Anti-Surface Warfare (ASUW), inter-ship Helicopter Delivery (HDS), Search and Rescue (SAR) and casualty evacuation.

    the two last……….

    I seem to remember from somewhere that he flew over a spot over the island just a couple of minutes earlier where the next pair of helos was engaged by Argentinians and one of those shot down.

  182. peterAUS says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Correct.
    The suppressive fire.
    Not even automatic. You fire on semi but to effectively suppress the guy(s) there it takes a lot of rounds. So your buddy can “bound”.
    And again…….and again……………..

    Hehe…..and not even forwards. Backwards…….so we can repeat the fire mission.

    But, again……when the dust settles on the hill, two of us are of again. Maybe that guy is really dead now.
    Maybe he isn’t………………

  183. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Yes. Ammunition is time suppressing the enemy. It is heavy, crucial and scarce. Platoon tactics involve soldiers counting their rounds and constantly passing their ammo states up through the platoon hierarchy to company level and beyond. The more you have while still being able to move with maximum aggression the more effective you will be. This has been basic to warfare since WWI and is probably more important now than it even was then.

  184. @Brutusale

    They are executing the dead(ass)lift.

  185. peterAUS says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Agree.

    It will create a lot of strain where it really matters the most: from company to the fireteam.
    Ultimately, yes, it will erode the cohesion there and effectively decrease the combat effectiveness.

    But, then again, armed forces are extension of their societies. No way around it.

    If I am (again, or so I say) a platoon leader, say, 36 men and 4 women, I’d do my best to handle it. Assign the women roles they are the most comfortable with. Try to manage that somehow and, yes, I really don’t see a good way to do it. So, yes, it would affect my workload, integrity and ultimately my standing with the men. Again, cohesion and morale.

    Now….seriously…..integrity, cohesion and morale. Hahahahaha…….oh man….do those words, those very concepts, even register anymore with TPTB ?
    So, here we are.

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
  186. peterAUS says:

    This topic attracts a lot of people. Say….20 % I don’t mind reading and 5 % don’t mind communicating with.

    It does interest me, for a couple of reasons, so, here I go.

    When I was in military (or so I say….) this issue was there, but, how to put it, wasn’t really important.
    Maybe the world, people, even women, were different then. We are talking, approximately, from early 80′s to late 90′s, for this very topic.

    I had a couple of women in my unit, a couple of times, during my career. They were very good at what they did and were seen as integral part of the outfit. They were “us”.
    But, they had, say, support roles and would never, ever, even think about doing the sharp end.
    Men saw them as a fundamental part of the outfit, they felt and were treated as such of course, but the boundary was very hard and simple: support vs combat.
    Or, “manage the logistics” but “don’t even think about carrying a machinegun”. Ever. And the girls were quite O.K. with that. That’s my point here.

    So…the question is: do the current girls in the land forces really feel they are equal “down there” where it really matters? Infantry combat. The last 4oo meters………..

  187. Hank Yobo says:
    @Steve Sailer

    This is an American predilection. Other Western forces–without the Pentagon’s deep pockets–rely primarily on each section’s light machine gun for suppressive fire while the remaining men tactically approach the target. Controlled fire and movement can be a key to success on the battlefield.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  188. Lot says:
    @Trevor H.

    THAT’S NOT FUNNY THINK OF THE POOR GOAT HABIB!

  189. dvorak says:
    @Neoconned

    I’m not exaggerating when I say this but the Argentines should just wait a few decades.

    At that point who will be left but orcs, in Argentina to accept the surrender? Will they have any means to travel to the Falklands? And won’t Falklanders simply declare independence and sound the alarm for White assistance from right-wing flotillas?

    I hope that those right-wing flotillas will be openly funded by the Kremlin.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  190. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Read again: “Under current ROE …” (Rules Of Engagement)

    In a hypothetical future where the various Geneva and Hague agreements are discarded by the major powers, anything goes—self-directed killer robots (LAWs), massive-scale lethal active/passive area denial, bioweapons, nukes, starvation blockades, etc. The real news wouldn’t be the new robot technology, it would be the radical change in ROE and resulting restriction/destruction of civilian activity in the subject territory.

    I’d have to agree. Genghis Khan swatted aside guerrilla fighters using a fairly time-tested method – the exemplary massacre of the civilians who feed them. Our problem with guerrillas hasn’t been due to the lack of equipment to deal with them – it’s the presence of scruples that preclude the resort to medieval methods like collective punishment via massacre, siege-imposed famine, enforced exile and so on.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  191. @dvorak

    Doesn’t Argentina have adequate numbers of sheep already? What do you want the Falklands for if you aren’t a sheep?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  192. peterAUS says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Actually………one word: Antarctica.
    That’s for British strategic interest.

    Argentina and Falklands, how to put it: whoever is interested in that topic please observe a…conversation…….between an Argentine and a Brit re the issue. Half an hour should suffice.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  193. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon

    Dude, I take the piss from you a lot. I think you think at least half of what I say implies something I don’t mean it to, and the other half I am just taking the piss.

    You sound like a drunk “bro.”

    I actually expect we would be good friends if we were neighbours.

    “Neighbours”? Are you a Brit now? And, sorry, I don’t make a habit of making friends with people who deny my (and my children’s) American-ness and enthusiastically side with deranged wannabe white nationalists who cheer for a race war.

  194. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Genghis Khan swatted aside guerrilla fighters

    Genghis Khan also had a great advantage in that his warriors were more mobile than the would-be guerillas.

    Immobile guerillas are dead guerillas.

    Interestingly, Temujin himself was a master of guerilla tactics when he was a young warrior leading a ragtag band of rejects and malcontents from established tribes of Mongolia. His early history is that of one defeat after another, but fleeing to survive and fight another day.

    Good guerillas grow up to become very good at killing other guerillas when they come to power.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Johann Ricke
  195. Twinkie says:
    @Hank Yobo

    rely primarily on each section’s light machine gun for suppressive fire while the remaining men tactically approach the target.

    Ah, yes, but what suppressive fire does the LMG team rely on when IT has to move? :)

    • Replies: @Hank Yobo
    , @Lurker
  196. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Twinkie

    Yeah, he learned alright.

    After the Mongols won the battle (of Kiev), they plundered Kiev. Most of the population was massacred. Out of 50,000 inhabitants before the invasion, about 2,000 survived. Most of the city was burned and only six out of forty major buildings remained standing.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  197. Twinkie says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Genghis Khan was never at Kiev.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  198. Hank Yobo says:
    @Twinkie

    Whatever is available. And sooner rather than later, especially if the Yanks are around to provide an airstrike. The Pentagon’s deep pockets and all.

  199. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Twinkie

    I admire your pedantry.

    In 1211, Genghis Khan turned his focus to modern-day China and attacked the Jin Empire. It was a reckless decision. The Jin Empire controlled 53 million people, and the Mongols had one million. Still, Genghis Khan won.Within three years, the Mongols had made their way to Zhongdu (now Beijing). The city walls were 12 meters (39 ft) high and stretched 29 kilometers (18 mi) around the city. It seemed impossible to get in, so they didn’t try.Instead, the Mongols starved Zhongdu out. By summer 1215, the people there were so hungry that cannibalism was running rampant inside its walls. Finally, they surrendered, and the Mongols sacked and burned the city.The massacre was horrific. Months later, a passing eyewitness wrote that “the bones of the slaughtered formed white mountains and that the soil was still greasy with human fat.”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  200. BB753 says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Suit yourself. There’s Also Elton John’s (no stranger to trannies himself probably) “Tiny dancer”.

    BTW, I was mentioning tranny soldiers, not tranny dancers. It was an actual thing during the Civil War in Liberia. Negroes really believed that fighting in drag would protect them from harm, with wigs, skirts and high heel shoes. Since progress cannot be stopped, today transvestite and transexual warriors fight in the ranks off the all-mighty NATO, though they wear armor just to be sure, striking fear in the hearts of the enemy.

    • LOL: Charles Pewitt
  201. @peterAUS

    This guy says Argentina could not retake the Falklands today:

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  202. Yngvar says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Artillery have always been the king of the battlefield. Every grunt loves the mortar company, those guys kill a lot of enemy soldiers before battle ensues for real. Because they have to be dead, it’s not enough that they keep their heads down.

  203. Twinkie says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I admire your pedantry.

    Says he who injected tales of atrocities of his successors in siege warfare into a discussion about his understanding of guerilla warfafre.

    What’s your point here, that Genghis Khan wasn’t a sweet gentle flower?

  204. Twinkie says:
    @prosa123

    You are HUGELY underestimating the strength of the women who participate in Crossfit or do similar types of exercise.

    At high levels, there is considerable PED use among women doing CrossFit. There is also a very high degree of injuries, which is not conducive to passing various infantry tests, especially straining ruck marches over rugged terrain with heavy loads.

  205. Twinkie says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The biggest drawback is that it is done every day and is often very high impact. This can lead to injuries.

    You don’t see many old Crossfitters for a reason. It will certainly bring strength gains, but is a stupid way to do it over long term.

  206. Twinkie says:
    @International Jew

    What’s the deal with long marches carrying lots of weight?

    In the first place, it’s a test of mental and physical toughness (not strength per se, more on that below).

    When you cross rugged terrain with a heavy load over long distance, everything starts to bother you after a while. Every blister, scrape, strap sitting wrong, everything uncomfortable – both major and minor – is magnified and starts to tell your mind to stop. You just have to pace yourself properly and keep going. One technique I came up with was what I call “externalizing pain.” I kept telling myself that all the discomfort I was feeling was not, in fact, inside my body, but outside me – just outside my skin. Eventually, I was able to, not eliminate, but dull my pain somewhat by “fooling” my mind with this technique (and also by setting little goals and cheering myself up when successful).

    On top of that, when you add something cognitively a bit more challenging such as land navigation (and not the kind where you can just follow others), and when you run into unexpected obstacles that put your pace to the next point in jeopardy, it’s easy to fall into a bit of panic and start making bad decisions. You have to have the mental clarity to stay calm and make good judgment calls despite the fatigue, pain, hunger, thirst, and anger (its easy to want to just chuck it all, kick the crap out of everything, and just scream).

    And physically, you have to be fortunate to have good genes. Muscle strength – which you can build easily – is finite. It will eventually (and rather surprisingly quickly) fail. What remains is your bone and joint toughness (and, obviously and importantly, aforementioned mental toughness). Some people, no matter how muscular, just don’t have the skeletal toughness to bear the grind. I think it’s mostly genetic. And this is where most women, even very strong ones, fail physically. They get injured easily. You can, up to a point, mitigate some of this with good posture – using the skeletal structure properly to bear the weight and using as little muscle as possible, but even that eventually breaks down and the unlucky people whose joints can’t bear the strain give out or get injured.

  207. @Twinkie

    Thanks, Twink. I’ve never gone for any really ambitious hike (much less a march loaded with weight), so I’ll just have to imagine what it’s like but you’ve done a good job helping me imagine.

    When there’s a war on, I suppose it’s easy to figure who’s made of the right stuff. So in peacetime they have to turn to something that’s highly correlated without being lethal.

    I was under the mistaken impression that the Israelis are an outlier in their committment to long heavy marches, but apparently that isn’t so.

  208. @Twinkie

    Well said. I read Andy McNab’s account of SAS selection and remember him talking about all the things he did just to keep blisters in check. And, as you well know, these marches are timed, the way points are uncertain, it’s up and down the hills, you are by yourself, and the weather often stinks.

  209. @Twinkie

    Genghis Khan also had a great advantage in that his warriors were more mobile than the would-be guerillas.

    I’d say that comes with pastoralists having mobile food supplies, whereas agriculturalists (i.e. his opponents) relied on farms that were easy to lay waste. We’re in Genghis’s situation. We can truck everything we need in. In fact, we don’t even have to be there. We can kill everything that moves in a given area, thanks to drone surveillance, in combination with heat sensors, and smart bombs, whether delivered by air or tube artillery. The entire reason we have troops in the area is because our scruples prevent us from doing Genghis-style massacres.

    At the same time, Genghis’s atrocities need to be viewed in the context of his time. For thousands of years, agriculturalists had encroached on pastoralist territory, conquering them and taking their land. Resisting meant large scale massacre. History is written from the standpoint of the literate, and Genghis’s literate enemies certainly dwelt on Mongol atrocities while papering over their own similar ones in the process of building their own empires.

    In the context of their time, they weren’t atrocities. Mongol detachments were outnumbered by up to three orders of magnitude by the empires they fought. In times of emergency, summary executions are fairly routine even for the most civilized kingdoms and empires. Every single time a Mongol detachment went on expedition, it was in effect a time of emergency, given their severe numerical inferiority and tenuous supply situation. A force that is outnumbered by three orders of magnitude cannot afford to get bogged down in a war of attrition. So they dealt out exemplary massacres to diminish the effectiveness of this tactic.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  210. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Genghis’s literate enemies certainly dwelt on Mongol atrocities while papering over their own similar ones in the process of building their own empires.

    Quite right. By the way, like most of their peers, Mongols generally respected valor on the battlefield and often spared (and tried to take into service) those enemies who showed courage in fighting them. Indeed several of Temujin’s own early associates came to his company this way.

    And it wasn’t just the Mongols who would massacre denizens of cities and forts they captured. In pre-modern warfare, very different rules governed the conduct of sieges. While valor was respected on a battlefield and due often given to courageous foes (and allowances made for such niceties as retrieval of the dead bodies for burial and such), in siege warfare there was NO rule. Cities and towns that resisted besiegers, Mongol or otherwise, could expect no quarter once they fell. All lives and property were at the mercy of the captors, which meant that, inevitably, there were slaughters of men (and even babies sometimes), rape of women, looting, and destruction of infrastructure.

    Mongols were morally no better or worse than their enemies. They were simply better at killing their enemies than their enemies were at killing them.

  211. NickG says:
    @Tyrion 2

    They did that 10 years ago with the Commando and Parachutist courses

    The Parachute Regiment equivalent to the Commando Course is P company, now I understand held in Catterick up in Yorkshire. It was held in Aldershot, Surrey for ages, but the Paras moved out of Aldershot a few years back.

    The Basic Parachute Course is an all arms military static line course conducted by the RAF regiment at Brize Norton and is not really a big deal. It’s open to all who have passed the Commando Course, UK special forces selection as well as P Company. As it happens the Royal Marines can deploy more jump qualified troops than can the Parachute Regiment, not really surprising as the Marines are more than 4 times the size of the Parachute Regiment.

    Mass parachute insertion of troops on operations is now pretty much obsolete, the last UK mass operational drop was some 60 years back in Port Said, Suez by the 3rd Battalion of the Parachute regiment back in 1956. Though parachute insertion it is still sometimes used for small numbers; I suspect mainly for nostalgic and use it or lose it reasons.

    Suez also presaged the future with the world’s first battalion sized helicopter assault when 45 Commando Royal Marines inserted into Port Said from the carrier group off shore in Royal Navy Westland Whirlwind choppers.

    A typically British bon mot from the operation. Before the Suez insertion, 45 Commando had been on operations in Cyprus against the EOKA insurgency. There they had been issued the new trial 7.62mm FN FAL semi auto battle rifle, in later guise to become the Britsh L1A1 SLR, which was in service until the mid 80s.

    Before the Suez op 45 had the new FAL rifles taken off them and were re issued 303 No4 bolt action rifles. The Egyptian troops were toting AK47s. It didn’t make much difference, Suez was a complete military success, though a political debacle and humiliation for the British under Prime Minister Harold Macmillan.

  212. NickG says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    The English Army

    There hasn’t been an English Army for hundreds of years, England maintained a military structure that merged with that of Scotland upon the Act of Union in 1707 creating the United Kingdom.

  213. peterAUS says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    OT.

    Of course it can’t.

    We are talking about (implausible) scenario where the Crown abandons the Islands/they declare independence/whatever.
    Kelper own defense force against the current Argentinian military.

    Anyway……

  214. Coemgen says:
    @Coemgen

    No replies? Has everyone seen this documentary and it’s now unremarkable? If not, note that it’s a true-to-life documentary of an all female platoon in U.S. Army basic training.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  215. peterAUS says:
    @Coemgen

    I’ll bite.
    “This video is not available.”

    Still, can try something here.

    Wiki:

    …Soldier Girls is a 1981 documentary film …..

    Not applicable for the topic I am afraid. The era of Cold War etc.
    Just different time.

    Nothing wrong with women in military. Actually, it’s a must, IMHO, for several reasons.

    The point popular on this site is that insanity, I mean, the insane belief in equality of sexes.

    So, bottom line: women are better suited for certain roles in modern military than men, and vice versa. Certain and few.

    The problem is when it’s forced on all roles, as the current religion demands.

  216. Lurker says:
    @Twinkie

    Two sections, one LMG each. One supports, one moves.

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