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Bernie Sanders Ruining "Isolate Trump" Strategy
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It’s been very important for The Establishment to set the Overton Window on immigration so that the only question is:

Are you pro-immigrant or are you some kind of vicious racist anti-immigrant hater?

But now Bernie Sander has come along with a bunch of arguments about the effects of various immigration policies. These aren’t terribly original arguments. They are about the same as the ones Samuel Gompers used to argue for immigration restriction in the 1920s.

But they are, intellectually, far above the Establishment’s grade schoolish conception of thinking about immigration, which is basically, are you a Good person or a Bad person? Are you on the team of powerful Winners or are you on the Loser team? Are you Punching Down against racist white people with 2-digit IQs whining “They’ll Take Our Jerbs!” alongside other Good puncherd0wners like Mark Zuckerberg, George Soros, the Koch Brothers, Rupert Murdoch, Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, John McCain, the Roman Catholic hierarchy, the Business Round Table, and Hillary Clinton? Or are you one of those low brow puncher uppers like Donald Trump and … and … a bunch of aging roofers and computer programmers.

Bernie, however, isn’t sticking to the script for isolating Trump.

From the Washington Post:

Bernie Sanders criticizes ‘open borders’ at Hispanic Chamber of Commerce

By David Weigel July 30

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) found himself at odds with some immigration reform advocates Thursday, defending his 2007 vote against a comprehensive immigration bill and telling an audience hosted by the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that “open borders” were a threat to American jobs.

“There is a reason that Wall Street likes immigration reform,” Sanders said. “What I think they’re interested in is seeing a process by which we can bring low-wage labor into this county.”

 
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  1. Of course, this is one of the issues where is it ok to punch down, for some reason.

    It is amazing how people love taking the side of winners and making fun of losers. The reason it is amazing is that most of these people would identify as Christian. I am shocked SHOCKED that people are hypocrites vis-a-vis their religion.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    More than Christian Republicans who love to let the rich exploit the poor and middle class and loot the USA? Or Catholic liberals ignoring Church teaching on abortion and homosexuality (which is actually in the Bible)? Religious hypocrisy is something everyone does.

    I don't remember exactly what Judaism says on rich and poor, but I'm sure all the businessmen there are breaking some line of Torah.

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  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The Bern is off the rez.

    To not go along with the plan to swamp white America with mass immigration is heresy.

    “Who gives a damn about jobs/wages for proles? The point is to rout whitey. Everything else is ‘breaking a few eggs’!”

    “We’re trying to have a Bolshevik revolution here, Bernie, are you in or out?”

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  3. Bernie Sanders is an absolute godsend to people like us. You can now say that you oppose mass immigration because it lowers the wages of American workers, which is just what Bernie Sanders thinks. This argument may not work against people in the Silicon Valley or Wall Street – they clearly are worried about a self-avowed socialist – but it instills immense cognitive dissonance in a lot of SJWs.

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  4. Why am I getting all of these stories about Hispanic immigrants murdering people? This time, native Americans: and the guy looks the part:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/31/mexican-accused-double-murder-legal-immigrant/

    Committing the murders Americans won’t?

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    • Replies: @Gato de la Biblioteca
    In that case shouldn't Senor Mendoza get an H-1B visa?
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  5. I think Dave Weigel ought to be included on any list of “Mainstream Journalists Who Are Obviously Secret iSteve Readers.”

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  6. Will Bernie Sanders be the one who dissolves the KKKrazy glue?

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  7. Scientific Progressives within the Democratic Party make racism accusations reflexively against anybody who disagrees with their political opinions. Sanders’ position against illegal immigration confuses that reflex. They will have to hesitate and think for a moment before hurling racism accusations as long as Sanders continues to run.

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    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist

    Scientific Progressives within the Democratic Party
     
    Confusing term!!! Today's Progressives are almost all Boazians and Cultural Marxists, strict adherents to the Standard Social Science Model complete perverters of science to justify their world view. Think Thomas Jay Gould and Richard Lowentin.

    The early twentieth century Progressives influenced by Darwin and Galton were the Scientific Progressives.
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  8. Switch punching up and down. Leftists never punch down, not matter what.

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  9. It is interesting that they’ve begun backing off attacking Trump over “anti-immigrant” rhetoric and reconnoitering for general rayciss rhetoric instead, as if the general election oppo had already started:

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump%e2%80%99s-instinct-for-racially-charged-rhetoric-before-his-presidential-bid/ar-BBlgSej

    …and just watch when he hits 24% or 25% in the next poll…

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  10. Sanders is accidentally telling the truth all over the place:

    At one point, Mr. Sanders begged for the crowd’s indulgence to discuss his campaign platform before focusing on the “save our cities” subject of the gathering. But he called that “your theme” — an off-key remark, and one that echoed a speech he made on Thursday, in which he twice referred to Latinos as “your people” before the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

    From

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/politics/hillary-clinton-hits-jeb-bush-first-and-hard-in-speech-on-race.html?_r=0&referrer=

    Maybe it’s just incipient senility. If so, I’m eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Yes, it's considered very racist to say "you people" (Perot), "your issue (Sanders)", "the blacks" (Trump).
    , @Anonymous
    It isn't senility. Steve hit the nail on the head when he compared him with Gompers.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    If so, I’m eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

     

    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino 2013 = 93.8%
    , @Dennis Dale
    Yes, it's a sign of incipient senility--of the political system that renders "you people" and "your ---" slander.
    This prohibition needs to be shredded. It's an Orwellian power dynamic: "we" (given grievance group) are going to organize as "we"; we're going to harangue you endlessly about "we" this and "we" that, and our posture toward you will be first and foremost accusatory--"you [white] people" is implied in everything we say--but God forbid you so much as notice we have become a distinct we by saying you.

    I refuse. Say it loud and proud: you, you, you, whiny bitch-ass POC screw-ups.

    Bernie's only problem is he hasn't had to run national before, and doesn't know instinctively how to avoid stepping in the many rhetorical piles of shit.

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  11. I want to know how Bernie’s constituents keep their state so white. It doesn’t seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the ’70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I was impressed with Sailer's earlier theory for Bellingham, Wash.: the local white establishment sets curiously exacting -- but liberal! -- standards of membership that aren't prima-facie racially exclusionary, mostly about organic toothpaste, bike paths, lesbian daycare, and assorted Lake Isle of Innisfree crap.

    It flies under the radar, but the de facto attainment level of blacks & browns for these membership criteria is naturally quite low. It's like a reverse New Haven firefighters' exam.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.
    , @yaph
    african-americans don't like high elevations or rough terrain that much
    , @JerseyGuy
    One thing you'll notice is that the vast majority of jobs that us metro area types would associate with immigrant labor (i.e. Dishwashers, mowing lawns, hotel maids, etc.) are still performed primarily by whites in Vermont.

    I guess the primary reasons it avoided so much immigration is that it is so far north and that it really doesn't have any major cities (Burlington isn't that big).

    It does have a very low birthrate and it has lost a lot of its young people unfortunately. To be honest, if you were a smart, blue-collar white, you would be better off going out West. Yes, there is still a lot to admire about Vermont's localism and conservationist mindset. However, it really doesn't create a lot of opportunities for young people, especially young men.
    , @The Z Blog

    want to know how Bernie’s constituents keep their state so white.
     
    Snow and ball shriveling cold.
    , @Hersh
    Vermont has lots of farms so they have lots of hispanics. (Who don't go to Applebee's) Probably aren't there year round and probably live in housing on the farms so they're not very visible.
    , @ABN

    I want to know how Bernie’s constituents keep their state so white. It doesn’t seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the ’70s.
     
    I suppose by having a conservationist ethos and rejecting a GDP-uber-alles policy regime. New England liberals may be insufferable, but we can learn something from them. (Cf. Steve's recent Takimag article about how regular Californians should have taken a page from the playbook of the wealthy and constructed environmentalist barriers to population growth.)
    , @George
    Search on vermont+refugee resettlement program. Maybe they are good at hiding the refugees.
    , @SFG
    My pet theory: it's the cold. Blacks and Hispanics evolved for warm temperatures (look at the African body plan, tall and lean with lots of sweat glands--perfect for losing heat!), so it's just that less comfortable for them to be up there. Kind of like the way Eskimos always feel too hot when they try to leave.

    That, and the whole rural-roughing-it thing doesn't appeal to vibrant types. I think Steve's commented on how wilderness is a white thing.

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  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    I was impressed with Sailer’s earlier theory for Bellingham, Wash.: the local white establishment sets curiously exacting — but liberal! — standards of membership that aren’t prima-facie racially exclusionary, mostly about organic toothpaste, bike paths, lesbian daycare, and assorted Lake Isle of Innisfree crap.

    It flies under the radar, but the de facto attainment level of blacks & browns for these membership criteria is naturally quite low. It’s like a reverse New Haven firefighters’ exam.

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  13. The one recent obvious hitch to the Bellingham/Vermont strategy is that it doesn’t do much to protect you from heroin & meth vibrancy. They have more success keeping out Walmart or McDonald’s

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    • Replies: @Clyde

    The one recent obvious hitch to the Bellingham/Vermont strategy is that it doesn’t do much to protect you from heroin & meth vibrancy.
     
    Doesn't 98% of that deadly crap come from Mexico these days? Another reason to lock down the border tight as a drum. Plus institute the death penalty for large scale dealers of such poisons. Trump should empathize all the drugs coming across. This synchronizes with the growing anti-illegal aliens mood.
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  14. It is more than refreshing to listen to Sanders speaking because he speaks the truth without hesitation and not much coverup. He is, in fact, like Trump but less brash. And each of them has this wide appeal because of their frankness. Their ideologies may be different but each is clear and believable when he speaks. They are less likely to implode than Bush e.g., because when you tell your truth, you don’t need to remember the talking points.

    Most of us are appalled by politicians and their parasitical flunkies giving smarmy bs answers to many issues of public interest, particularly the illegal alien question. Every one of them has been for securing the border and building the danged fence, And they’ve been saying it for years but we know there is no border security and there is no fence, danged, dinged or whatever. None believes any of the Republican elites. Not a single one of them has told the truth which is what Sanders and Trump are all about.

    I noticed, too, that Sister Sarah had some rogue comments about Trump today – now there’s a ticket to curl Rove’s toes: Trump-Palin would really change the calculus. On the other side, we could have Sanders-?????? Any suggestions?

    Another group of smarmies is the Roman Catholic hierarchy in their all aliens are good fetish. It has distanced me from my Church but not my Faith.

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    • Replies: @Shine a Light
    Any suggestions?

    Yes, Trump/Sanders 2016. But since the Chamber of Commerce has enough power to deny Trump the Republican nomination it must be as a third party developed intellectually along the lines of the Front National in France (economic nationalist combined with Keynesian economics).

    It all comes down to Globalists vs. Nationalists. The economic Left (pre-Sanders) seem to decry the undeniable symptoms of globalization (concentration of wealth within a nation, leveling of first and third world countries with the first dropping a lot and the third world raising a little) yet they refuse to confront the disease. The economic Right on the other hand love the results (rich getting richer). Of course the well-educated urban bourgeoisie benefit most from globalization so their blindness is strategic. The bottom 67% suffer from it though. Keynes recognized this back in 1933. Economically the US is rushing towards the Right (rich getting richer).

    At the same time there is a countering rush towards the Left on the cultural front. Corporate power-grabbing "free" trade is "balanced" by a gay marriage ruling.


    When the middle becomes too narrow as the Dem/Rep in the US (or UMP/PS in France, or Tory/Labour in UK) they are vulnerable to attack from the fringes. The danger a Marine Le Pen poses to any power eliteis obvious, is Trump there to block a similar authentic challenge, or is he the real deal? Working class activists in both Dem/Rep parties are in open revolt against their parties' corporatist ways. Can the nationalist right (Trump) combine with the Nationalist Left (Sanders). In France many former communist party cadres are joining the FN. What the legacy parties must do is keep the Left/Right fairy tale alive. People have to think it matters which of the two duplicate legacy parties wins. But if the two fringes could combine (Trump/Sanders) as they are already doing in France, then they would stand a chance over time (the impact of globalization is only getting worse) to throw the pendulum back towards economic nationalism.

    , @Robert Hume
    Sanders-Webb? Give Bernie some cred on Foreign Affairs. They both voted against Iraq.
    , @David
    Listen to Sanders' answer to Jane Lindholm in June 2014, starting at 3:08 and ending at 4:08.

    http://digital.vpr.net/post/va-crisis-unfolds-sanders-plays-key-role


    This here [i.e., V.A. Hospital wait-times] is not a new issue… the inspector general over the years… the general accountability office over the years… issued reports that this was a problem, memos from the Washington VA said this was a problem… ONE HAD BELIEVED given all these reports, given all the memos, that it was a problem that had been addressed, obviously it had not been addressed.
     
    Why, given all the reports that it was a problem, did the person perhaps second to the president most responsible for holding the VA to account just assume it was a problem that had been fixed? Wouldn't one report or memo after another suggest the problem was persistent? Sanders is a perfect example of failure of government.
    , @Hersh
    In my opinion, everything the Roman Catholic church does is for the purpose of distracting from the priest scandal. Pope Francis and the poor and climate change and letting in immigrants (but not into Vatican City) - its all about the priest scandal, which was really a homosexual scandal.

    Overwhelmingly, the victims were adolescents who were seduced by priests because thats what homosexuals do. Its the story of the scorpion who gets the frog to let him ride on his back across the river but stings the frog anyway because thats his nature. If homosexuals have access, it will happen. Allowing homosexuals to adopt children means those children have a very good chance of being molested by their "parents" or their parents' friends.

    They can't stop priests molesting kids unless they open up the priesthood to married men (and pay a decent salary). So lets talk about something else! And get praised for it. Pope Francis acts like he's oblivious to the fact that Catholic priests are almost all homosexually- oriented and most are or have been active homosexuals. When has he ever said anything about it? He runs an empire of child molesters and child molester-facilitators and when he comes here later this year, he's going to be treated like he's a Great Wonder because he lectures about the poor and climate change and letting migrants invade your country (but not Vatican City).
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  15. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby’s on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she’d noticed anything unusual. She’s not particularly race conscious, but answered, “Every single person there was white.”

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

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    • Replies: @The Z Blog
    I've lived all over, but I spent a lot of my life in New England so I return often to visit friends. The first thing I notice is the whiteness. Even eastern Mass is startlingly white compared to just about anywhere south of Pennsylvania.

    Years back, Boston friends came to visit me in the ghetto. We went out for dinner and midway through dinner one of my friends leaned over and whispered, "there are more black people in here than live in my whole town."
    , @Reg Cæsar
    Everyone was white, but how many were anglais? Some of those border counties went for FDR, they were already so alien.
    , @Hibernian
    I think I would feel a little culture shock myself in a 100% white environment - and I grew up in a 99% white, 0.9% Hispanic, 0.1% Asian, and 0% black neighborhood in a city, if you could call it that, of 100,000 people in the Midwest, about 180 miles west of Chicago.
    , @ttjy
    That's the way it was in suburbs of Chicago in the 70's and 80's. Now I feel like I am in a foreign country in some places.
    , @syonredux

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.
     
    I'm not quite sure how "of course" that is. I have some Jewish friends in Vermont, and they've never expressed any concern over the state's overwhelmingly European character.

    For that matter, I tend to assume that White liberals who move to Vermont are quite comfortable with the state's demographics.After all, if they really wanted to be around non-Whites, they wouldn't have moved to Vermont in the first place.

    As Razib Khan would say, revealed preferences are quite informative....
    , @AP
    Not unrelated to this - VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably.
    , @Robbie
    Why are they you're friends then?
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  16. both trump and sanders have taken brilliant approaches to denouncing immigration via a limited stalking horse.

    Trump is using criminal illegals to denounce immigration, via this limited stalking horse that is hard to deem as racist. After all, there is a heck of a lot of evidence that has already seeped into the consciousness of the white middle class, evidence that foreigners DO indeed commit a lot of crimes.

    And Sanders is denouncing immigration but limiting his attacks to ‘open borders.’ After all, very few “nice white middle class americans” would say that open borders is good.

    The key to both these approaches is to attack immigration and defy the media via an attack that cannot really be successfully characterized by the media as racist.

    Once the media can convince “nice white middle class americans” that you are a racist, you are doomed.

    By defying the media on immigration, both sanders and trump are attracting a group of high-information, keenly aware americans who think mass immigration is bad. This group of high-information voters can provide an early campaign boost.

    The key to this strategy is to use a limited stalking horse that cannot be used by the media to demonize you as racist. Once the media can successfully characterize you as racist, you have lost most of the “nice white middle class americans.”

    This group of “nice white middle class americans” is much larger that the high-information anti-immigration voters, the ones who can boost your campaign early. You want to attract the high-information, activist voters by defying the media on immigration and at the same time not lose the “nice white middle class americans” by saying something that could be construed as racist.

    It’s a fine line they both walk.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Any argument can and will be called racist; you can't be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn't claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino's complaint by saying, "you're not black".

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien.
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  17. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    african-americans don’t like high elevations or rough terrain that much

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    • Replies: @e
    african-americans don’t like high elevations or rough terrain that much

    High elevations? Their most frequented ski area, Stowe, doesn't reach 24oo ft. above sea level.
    , @Bert
    Once again Steve's peanut gallery makes themselves look ridiculous.
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  18. @International Jew
    Sanders is accidentally telling the truth all over the place:

    At one point, Mr. Sanders begged for the crowd’s indulgence to discuss his campaign platform before focusing on the “save our cities” subject of the gathering. But he called that “your theme” — an off-key remark, and one that echoed a speech he made on Thursday, in which he twice referred to Latinos as “your people” before the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
     
    From
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/politics/hillary-clinton-hits-jeb-bush-first-and-hard-in-speech-on-race.html?_r=0&referrer=

    Maybe it's just incipient senility. If so, I'm eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

    Yes, it’s considered very racist to say “you people” (Perot), “your issue (Sanders)”, “the blacks” (Trump).

    Read More
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  19. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    One thing you’ll notice is that the vast majority of jobs that us metro area types would associate with immigrant labor (i.e. Dishwashers, mowing lawns, hotel maids, etc.) are still performed primarily by whites in Vermont.

    I guess the primary reasons it avoided so much immigration is that it is so far north and that it really doesn’t have any major cities (Burlington isn’t that big).

    It does have a very low birthrate and it has lost a lot of its young people unfortunately. To be honest, if you were a smart, blue-collar white, you would be better off going out West. Yes, there is still a lot to admire about Vermont’s localism and conservationist mindset. However, it really doesn’t create a lot of opportunities for young people, especially young men.

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    • Replies: @Nico

    It does have a very low birthrate and it has lost a lot of its young people unfortunately. To be honest, if you were a smart, blue-collar white, you would be better off going out West.
     
    This.

    New England, like much of white America in general, is rigged around an "industrialist" mindset. The long-running trade deficit in America has made the concentration of the population around a few large urban nodes inevitable. And mass immigration is a (highly successful) corporatist strategy to cover up demand for rising wages.

    At the same time, by manipulating the exchange rate (which if left alone would fall to correct the trade balance) or permitting trading partners to manipulate it, however, the plutocrats can become even more extraordinarily wealthy by not only domestic but also global standards, thus permitting them to indulge in an orgy of BMW importation and chic London-Paris-Cannes-Florence shopping sprees.

    They can get away with this for now ONLY because of the sheer volume of cultural, social and economic goodwill the U.S. possessed at the point of departure. Sooner or later the mass will be depleted, and they will be confronted with the impossibility of supporting a first-world military and first-world living standards atop a third world population and economy. Unfortunately, by then it may be too late for everyone.

    , @Bill Jones
    "I guess the primary reasons it avoided so much immigration is that it is so far north and that it really doesn’t have any major cities "

    Zoning.

    My own little township in PA has a "Two good acres , no wetlands, no more than 12 % slope for single family homes."
    There are areas zoned for multifamily housing, as there has to be by law, but somehow there are always reasons why they cannot be built.

    We do seem to be long honkies.
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  20. I happened to major in economics in college, and one of the basic concepts of economics is “supply and demand.” Supply and demand determine the price of everything; increase demand and the price will rise; increase supply and the price will fall, all other things remaining equal. I have been arguing for years in opposition to massive immigration that opening up our borders depresses the wages of lower income Americans, since they are the ones that generally uneducated and untrained immigrants compete with. I have been stating for years that “it is a simple case of supply and demand.” If you increase the supply of anything, its price will fall. Since we are talking about wages, the “price of labor,” admitting more immigrants (legal or illegal) will cause wages to fall. Nothing complicated. That’s basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done. That’s why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor. Americans for the most part are basically economically illiterate. I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he’s saying it.

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    • Replies: @Deduction
    It's really simple.

    There are 3 factors of production - capital, labour and land.

    Normally you can lump land in with capital, so I will here.

    Now you have two goods, labour and capital. Immigrants always come with labour but rarely with capital. So immigrants increase the value of capital just as they decrease the value of labour.

    In this way it is easy to see why capitalists as in owners of lots of capital love immigration.
    , @Esso

    That’s why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor.
     
    I was reading about kelp in the wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelp) and I came across this bit of history:

    During the Highland Clearances, many Scottish Highlanders were moved off their crofts, and went to industries such as fishing and kelping (producing soda ash from the ashes of kelp). At least until the 1820s, when there were steep falls in the price of kelp, landlords wanted to create pools of cheap or virtually free labour, supplied by families subsisting in new crofting townships. Kelp collection and processing was a very profitable way of using this labour, and landlords petitioned successfully for legislation designed to stop emigration. But the economic collapse of the kelp industry in northern Scotland led to further emigration, especially to North America.
     
    Seems like a nice dual to the present migration policies in the developed countries. The same motivations, but an increasing vs decreasing supply of labour.

    I googled and learned that the Irish and some skilled trades in England also had restrictions on emigration in early 19th century. Does anyone know more examples of this kind of people-herding in post-Enlightenment history? (Russia had serfs long into the 19th century, of course.)
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    Key question for tbraton: Did you as an economics major take one single course that exclusively covered labor market analysis??????

    Because kid you are on to something!!!! Read on!!!

    One of interesting things about Bernie Sanders is that he got a degree from the University of Chicago in PolySci in the early sixties.

    It would be hard to imagine that Sanders did not take elective economics courses as well at the time. Why is this vitally important to Sanders' Open Borders depresses wages arguments????

    In the 1950's to early 1960's the most important and widely used introductory textbook at America's better colleges on economics was the great Nobel Prize winner Paul A Samuelson's ECONOMICS. In fact it still is. Back then ECONOMICS had chapters in it discussing labor market supply/demand/wage models. Even then Samuelson, a lifelong immigration skeptic, argued that employment based visa programs could be best understood or modeled as a government wage subsidies that benefited employers and perhaps the visa holder but not the taxpayer, domestic worker or the economy in general since it discouraged innovation and capital investment.

    These key Labor Market chapters were removed in the later 1960's by the publisher of "ECONOMICS" against the wishes of Samuelson at the request of prominent Universities that argued that such material was inappropriate and too "superficial" for the freshman undergrads, the vast majority of which were not economics majors, since their Professors rarely had time to cover the subject matter anyway. Labor market analysis instead would be covered in depth in more advanced required economics courses required of Econ majors and electives for others. Sounds like a plot by the PTB??? Well maybe!!!

    Well guess what, it has been possible for decades to get an undergraduate's degree in Economics from a top university while never taking a core course that covers labor market issues exclusively. This is a key point made by Neo-Samuelson labor economists like George Borjas. America's most prominent immigration skeptic economist. Most economics students, at an undergraduate, graduate and yes even doctoral level have no significant training in labor market supply, demand and wage analysis.
    , @Big Bill

    That’s basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done.
     
    You can't say the Aristocracy didn't try, though. They passed an internal slavery statute. Under the Statute of Labourers (1351), if a peasant was found wandering through England away from his peasant home, he could be detained and forced to work cheap. Wages had gone up 200-300%:

    And now for as much as it is given to the king to understand in the present parliament by the petition of the commons that the servants having no regard to the ordinance but to their ease and singular covetousness, do withdraw themselves from serving great men and others, unless they have livery and wages double or treble of what they were wont to take in the twentieth year and earlier, to the great damage of the great men and impoverishment of all the commonality; whereof the commonality prays [the] underwritten articles.
     
    Thankfully, like Nixon and Ford's wage and price controls, it was a failure.
    , @tbraton
    "I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he’s saying it."

    But I am much less surprised to find politician Bernie Sanders talking out of both sides of his mouth, as poster Nathan Wartooth (post #134) pointed out above. He's just doing what all politicians do all the time: seizing on the political issue du jour and playing it so as to attract as many new voters to your side without losing too many votes of your base. His statement shows that he at least grasps the issue and realizes that immigration actually hurts American workers but his new waffling on the issue indicates a realization that the issue may actually hurt you in today's Democratic Party, where even the Blacks favor immigration, which hurts them the most.
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  21. On Twitter they said Bernie received applause from crowd in attendance when he uttered these words.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    To me, this is the amazing thing. If you ask citizen NAMs what they prefer, they overwhelmingly favor tightened borders. They are the ones preyed upon by mojados. For every high-profile 11 year old white girl who is raped by some Mexican/Guatemalan mojado, there must be ten times that many NAM girls attacked.

    The problem is that the educated and connected Cathedral NAMs with the mouthpieces (Sharpton, Jackson, the Congressional Black Caucus--the list is endless) actually benefit by more poverty and suffering. For every four hispanic or black refugees that crosses the border, America must pay for and elevate one hispanic or black into the middle class. And the Cathedral NAMs are the ones who are "uplifted".

    It may be the children of rich Nigerians or the sons of Jesse Jackson. The Talented Tenth with the mouthpieces receive the AA benefits. That's why poor black folks have long called the NAACP the "National Association for the Advancement of 'Certain' People".

    The answer is simple: bypass the Cathedral NAMs and go straight to the NAM voters. This is what Trump and Sanders are doing. And the polls are showing it. As you noted, hispanics cheered Sanders.

    I look forward to Trump and Sanders making more appearances at public NAM gatherings and talking about immigration. The Cathedral, both NAMs and whites, will ignore these events or try to spin them, but they are already weakened since the attack is coming from both the left (Sanders+jobs) and the right (Trump+crime). There is no coherent ideological spin they can put on it.

    Now that the logjam is breaking up due to two white leaders, where are the loyal black and Mexican leaders? Where are today's Cesar Chavez, Samuel Gompers, Booker T Washington, Barbara Jordan and Frederick Douglass? Where are you, Glenn Loury? Where are you, John McWhorter?
    , @WhatEvvs
    I'm wondering if a lot of that applause came from middle-class parents whose teens are unemployed and perhaps, just maybe, they are seeing that rampant immigration (in-migration) affects their own kids' chances at making money? Vermont esp. is the sort of place where white teens still work.

    About Bernie, he's kind of a fossil - a NY Jewish radical of the Wellstone stripe who went to Vermont and got freeze dried in a congenial environment. He might not even realize that the stuff he says can be denounced as racist. But he says them and I applaud him for it.

    And Steve's observation, that the mainstream candidates are being isolated in a left-right Sanders-Trump pincers movement, is brilliant.
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  22. @International Jew
    Sanders is accidentally telling the truth all over the place:

    At one point, Mr. Sanders begged for the crowd’s indulgence to discuss his campaign platform before focusing on the “save our cities” subject of the gathering. But he called that “your theme” — an off-key remark, and one that echoed a speech he made on Thursday, in which he twice referred to Latinos as “your people” before the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
     
    From
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/politics/hillary-clinton-hits-jeb-bush-first-and-hard-in-speech-on-race.html?_r=0&referrer=

    Maybe it's just incipient senility. If so, I'm eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

    It isn’t senility. Steve hit the nail on the head when he compared him with Gompers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Add Booker T Washington and Frederick Douglass to Gompers as well.

    BTW railed against open borders in his famous 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech

    To those of the white race who look to the incoming of those of foreign birth and strange tongue and habits for the prosperity of the South, were I permitted, I would repeat what I have said to my own race: “Cast down your bucket where you are.” Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your fireside. Cast down your bucket among these people who have without strikes and labor wars tilled your fields, cleared your forests, builded your railroads and cities, brought forth treasures from the bowels of the earth, just to make possible this magnificent representation of the progress of the South.
     
    Frederick Douglass was brutally honest:

    There is no mistaking the purpose and destiny to which a portion of our white fellow-citizens would devote the colored people of this country. In the vigorous efforts now making to import Coolies from China — a kind of Asiatic slave-trade — with a view to supplant the black laborer in the South.

     

    Douglass, further:

    [With open borders] the capitalist shall be able to command all the laborers he wants, at prices only enough to keep the laborer above the point of starvation . . . The former slave owners of the South want cheap labor; they want it from Germany and from Ireland; they want it from China and Japan; they want it from anywhere in the world, but from Africa. They want to be independent of their former slaves, and bring their noses to the grindstone.
     
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  23. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    want to know how Bernie’s constituents keep their state so white.

    Snow and ball shriveling cold.

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    • Replies: @mts1
    How well has that worked out for the Twin Cities, and Minnesota in general? Before the Somalis, there were a heck of a lot of regular African Americans up there in the snow and ball shriveling cold, too.
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  24. @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    I’ve lived all over, but I spent a lot of my life in New England so I return often to visit friends. The first thing I notice is the whiteness. Even eastern Mass is startlingly white compared to just about anywhere south of Pennsylvania.

    Years back, Boston friends came to visit me in the ghetto. We went out for dinner and midway through dinner one of my friends leaned over and whispered, “there are more black people in here than live in my whole town.”

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Yeah, it was quite a shock for this suburban Boston white boy when he went down to DC to visit a friend at Georgetown U back in the late 70s. We went to a McDonald's in the city proper, and it was like the Delta House guys walking into the Dexter Lake Club to see Otis Day and the Knights.

    "We are gonna die!"
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  25. Samuel Gompers was a interesting figure, a influential jewish Trade Unionist who supported immigration restriction in the 1920s, he also recognised that the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was supported by some Wall Street bankers but I think this was common knowledge back them.

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  26. @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    Everyone was white, but how many were anglais? Some of those border counties went for FDR, they were already so alien.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Catholics voted very heavily Democratic before and during WW2, and this was the'30s and early to mid '40s. One of my great grandfathers was a Francophone from Montreal, and his grandchildren were, mostly, about the most conservative people around.
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  27. Bill and Hillary Clinton have made $139,097,232 in income since 2008.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-07-31/hillary-and-bill-clinton-paid-43-million-in-federal-taxes

    Hillary and Bill Clinton paid $43.9 million in federal taxes from 2007 through 2014 on adjusted gross income totaling $139,097,232, according to tax returns released by the former secretary of state’s presidential campaign on Friday.

    That put the Clintons near the very, very top of the American economic scale. Their 2012 adjusted gross income of $19.7 million put them in the top 0.01 percent, a level reached by fewer than 14,000 households, and represents a meteoric rise for a couple that once depended on Hillary Clinton’s law firm salary. She was the prime family breadwinner when Bill Clinton was making $35,000 a year as governor of Arkansas.

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    • Replies: @Hersh
    And the Clintons aren't running a business or doing anything that involves any risk at all. These are gifts.

    Jeb is the same but without the global reach. $29 million in the same period. Half from Wall Street.
    , @Whiskey
    I don't see any above board, non-corrupt, non-insider way for an Ex-President and his wife to make almost $140 million in a little less than eight years. I just don't see it. And oddly enough (no, not really sarcasm voice) the media doesn't see that as suspicious in the least.

    Rule of thumb: you can tell how honest Presidents in office were by how much their personal wealth and affairs suffer, or prosper, after leaving office.
    ----------------------
    Sanders is doing his country a great service by telling the truth, even if carefully hedged.
    , @Travis
    Don't forget Hillary was a wizard at trading cattle futures back in the 1970s , earning over $125,000 in just 6 months of day trading when Bill was governor...in fact she had not a single losing trade and made most of her profits by shorting the market during a bull market for cattle prices. She claimed she learned about trading cattle futures by reading the Wall Street Journal......the Clinton's have always been crooks , selling their influence every minute of everyday since their days in Arkansas.
    , @Anon87
    In a statement, Clinton noted the family had given $15 million to charity since 2007.

    I'm not going to do that math on what % of their income that is, but $15 million is nothing to sneeze at.

    The tax returns show $14.8 million of that went to the Clinton Family Foundation.

    Never mind!

    Clinton said the couple has paid $43.9 million in federal taxes since 2007, and that last year they paid an effective rate of 35.7%.

    "Families like mine that reap rewards from our economy have a responsibility to pay our fair share," she said.


    I get this is just a robotic talking point. Of course I'd like someone to ask if 35.7% isn't a fair share, what is?? 37? 40? 50??
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  28. I like to watch Cspan’s morning call in. The other day, Democratic Senator Udall was on. Man calls in from Texas and says he used to work in the concrete industry but now there are no jobs because companies bring in Mexicans illegally and they take all the work.

    Udall, of course, says, “And thats why I’m for comprehensive immigration reform.” He knows darned well that the comprehensive bill would not help that guy in Texas and wasn’t intended to . It would legalize the 11, 22, 33 or whatever million already here and incentivize that many more.

    There was a Trump moment in there, the common sense revelation that the Mexicans are being brought in by employers, they are not braving the desert all on their lonesomes.

    Interesting thing about Trump is what he’s saying about how political donations are actually transactional. “Everyone who gave money to Jeb and Hillary has something lined up.” Theres a deal. Its not that the donors are interested in government policy like supporting Israel. Thats a given. On top of that is the deal, where they are going to get back more than they gave. And they don’t need a notarized agreement to feel confident that a politician who will keep on needing money isn’t going to stiff them.

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    • Replies: @Ivy
    Cemex, the gigantic Mexican cement company, has acquired a large portion of the US cement industry. Some businesses, such as capital intensive industrial ones, are more ripe for consolidation than others, and cement was on of those.
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  29. @JohnnyWalker123
    Bill and Hillary Clinton have made $139,097,232 in income since 2008.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-07-31/hillary-and-bill-clinton-paid-43-million-in-federal-taxes


    Hillary and Bill Clinton paid $43.9 million in federal taxes from 2007 through 2014 on adjusted gross income totaling $139,097,232, according to tax returns released by the former secretary of state's presidential campaign on Friday.

    That put the Clintons near the very, very top of the American economic scale. Their 2012 adjusted gross income of $19.7 million put them in the top 0.01 percent, a level reached by fewer than 14,000 households, and represents a meteoric rise for a couple that once depended on Hillary Clinton's law firm salary. She was the prime family breadwinner when Bill Clinton was making $35,000 a year as governor of Arkansas.
     

    And the Clintons aren’t running a business or doing anything that involves any risk at all. These are gifts.

    Jeb is the same but without the global reach. $29 million in the same period. Half from Wall Street.

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  30. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bernie-sanders-gop-talking-points_55bbf39be4b06363d5a2572a

    Immigration activists and Mark Zuckerberg are mad at Bernie Sanders.

    I’ll give this much to Sanders. He’s making all the right enemies.

    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    When Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said this week that he opposes open borders — more a hypothetical than an actual policy proposal — no one was shocked. The Democratic presidential candidate supported comprehensive immigration reform in 2013 and favors a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, but he’s long been skeptical of guest worker programs and other legal immigration that could squeeze out American workers.

    Some immigration advocates, however, said they were surprised Sanders quickly went from talking about open borders to saying he doesn’t want immigrants to take American jobs.

    Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing, but also repeated his concern that businesses want to bring foreign workers to the U.S. to take American jobs.

    “Those are the talking points that Republicans use to drive a wedge between Latinos and the African-American vote, saying, ‘They’re coming to take your jobs.’ That at its core does not resonate and does not set him apart from the Republican Party,” said Greisa Martinez, advocacy coordinator for United We Dream, a group led by undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children.

    Sanders’ immigration policy stances are generally in step with advocacy groups. But as he struggles to win over minority voters, his tone matters. Some advocates said they have concerns that his opposition to new immigrant workers disrespects immigrants as a whole.

    FWD.us, the Mark Zuckerberg-backed group that advocates for immigration reform, was the first organization to criticize Sanders for his remarks to Vox. Todd Schulte, the group’s executive director, wrote Wednesday that Sanders “falsely pits immigrants as an obstacle to tackling unemployment.” He called that view “troubling,” and noted that studies have found immigration boosts the economy.

    Sanders often says giving undocumented immigrants legal status would aid the economy, but his comments on new immigrants tend to hinge more on the idea of Americans losing their jobs — to the chagrin of some advocates.

    “There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities, and that’s something that should be part of the conversation instead of the frame of mind that immigrants can take jobs, which is incorrect,” said Lizet Ocampo, associate director for immigration at the Center for American Progress, which has analyzed economic benefits of immigration reform.

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    • Replies: @e
    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    Yeah, sure, if you want to pay the taxes he wants from you to give to ....well, you know, the usual suspects.
    , @ic1000
    A quote from that HuffPo article you excerpted:

    "Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing"

    So is Sanders insisting that no candidate is pushing open borders, or is HuffPo pointing out that the Overton Window prohibits any voter from even thinking that a candidate's position might amount to pushing for open borders?

    Get me rewrite.
    , @Prof. Woland
    To drive a wedge between African Americans and Latinos the Republicans would have to say they are coming after your government benefits. "They're coming to take your jobs" only matters to people who are working or who plan on working.
    , @bomag
    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: "contribution". It is not necessarily positive.
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  31. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    Vermont has lots of farms so they have lots of hispanics. (Who don’t go to Applebee’s) Probably aren’t there year round and probably live in housing on the farms so they’re not very visible.

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  32. If even one person is free … everyone will want it. Trump must be destroyed and in the most savage, horrible way.

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  33. Here’s a grand bargain that wouldn’t be any worse than what we have now.

    How about we indulge more Vermontish Left-sanctimony (rainbow flags for all!) in exchange for a commitment by the Left to strive for Vermont demographics throughout the country? How about it, Bernie?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Rainbow flags is ducking the real issues. Are you ready to turn Exxon into Statoil, Bulge Bracket Banks into DNB ASA, cut the defense budget by 65%, single payer health care, etc?

    The left will commit to Vermont Demographics when people commit to Norwegian economic structure.
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  34. Also, does anything say “Treason Lobby” quite like “Hispanic Chamber of Commerce”?

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    • Replies: @Anthrobeast

    Also, does anything say “Treason Lobby” quite like “Hispanic Chamber of Commerce”?

     

    American Israel Public Affairs Committee?
    , @Lugash
    Silicon Valley Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    Does anything not scream TWMNBN funded astro-turf like “Hispanic Chamber of Commerce” , not to mention La Raza, NALEO, MEChA, LULAC, the list goes on and on.
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  35. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    I want to know how Bernie’s constituents keep their state so white. It doesn’t seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the ’70s.

    I suppose by having a conservationist ethos and rejecting a GDP-uber-alles policy regime. New England liberals may be insufferable, but we can learn something from them. (Cf. Steve’s recent Takimag article about how regular Californians should have taken a page from the playbook of the wealthy and constructed environmentalist barriers to population growth.)

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  36. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not so sure Bernie’s endgame lines up with the ‘sphere Program, a common fallacy around here w/ previous electioneers. He has expressed interest in a North American Union so he’s still a wobbly internationationalist race/culture denier. What’s interesting is that he has opened the attack on Globo-Liberalism’s left flank, a sort of back-from-the-grave AFL-CIO tactic, which could lead to lots of buried ideas &grievances suddenly recirculating

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I do wonder what's going on inside Bernie's head. He doesn't seem dumb or dishonest, so it's possible that he's coming to a late-in-life realization about some things. He considers himself a democratic socialist, but he seems to grok that what makes it work in Northern Europe is the predominantly Northern European demos. I don't recall him praising Latin American examples of socialism, for example.

    So, a question I have is whether he will train his guns on Hillary. Does he have an aversion to that? As long as he can convince himself that the "right wing Koch brothers" and the Republicans are worse, he might hold his fire. But what if Trump keeps rising in the polls, making similar points on immigration? Bernie might be forced to realize that Hillary is further from him ideologically and politically than Trump.
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  37. @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    I think I would feel a little culture shock myself in a 100% white environment – and I grew up in a 99% white, 0.9% Hispanic, 0.1% Asian, and 0% black neighborhood in a city, if you could call it that, of 100,000 people in the Midwest, about 180 miles west of Chicago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    At first there is perhaps a slightly strange feeling because of the novelty. But it becomes normal and comfortable pretty damn quick!
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  38. @JohnnyWalker123
    Bill and Hillary Clinton have made $139,097,232 in income since 2008.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-07-31/hillary-and-bill-clinton-paid-43-million-in-federal-taxes


    Hillary and Bill Clinton paid $43.9 million in federal taxes from 2007 through 2014 on adjusted gross income totaling $139,097,232, according to tax returns released by the former secretary of state's presidential campaign on Friday.

    That put the Clintons near the very, very top of the American economic scale. Their 2012 adjusted gross income of $19.7 million put them in the top 0.01 percent, a level reached by fewer than 14,000 households, and represents a meteoric rise for a couple that once depended on Hillary Clinton's law firm salary. She was the prime family breadwinner when Bill Clinton was making $35,000 a year as governor of Arkansas.
     

    I don’t see any above board, non-corrupt, non-insider way for an Ex-President and his wife to make almost $140 million in a little less than eight years. I just don’t see it. And oddly enough (no, not really sarcasm voice) the media doesn’t see that as suspicious in the least.

    Rule of thumb: you can tell how honest Presidents in office were by how much their personal wealth and affairs suffer, or prosper, after leaving office.
    ———————-
    Sanders is doing his country a great service by telling the truth, even if carefully hedged.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    I agree. The $139 million is mostly pay off money, for services rendered.

    The Clintons make a joke of this country. Truly a banana republic.
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  39. @Reg Cæsar
    Everyone was white, but how many were anglais? Some of those border counties went for FDR, they were already so alien.

    Catholics voted very heavily Democratic before and during WW2, and this was the’30s and early to mid ’40s. One of my great grandfathers was a Francophone from Montreal, and his grandchildren were, mostly, about the most conservative people around.

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    • Replies: @franktremb
    Because of their bitter rivalry with the Irish over wich ethnicity controls the dioceses, parishes and parochial schools, in politics, French Canadians in New England were Republicans because the Irish were Democrats.

    https://books.google.ca/books?id=G_B3j-1DAg4C&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=%22republican+party%22+new+england+french+canadians&source=bl&ots=LVCaAVMSg0&sig=-qCDji0xPtkgRDfSN_OxIOxlc2I&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIkojc04SHxwIVBSweCh2WZgVR#v=onepage&q=%22republican%20party%22%20new%20england%20french%20canadians&f=false
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  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I think Bern will clarify this eventually so as not to be “anti-immigrant” (he’s just “anti-exploitation,” see?) I don’t expect this to ever metamorphose into a full-throated nationalistic defense of white people’s interests, prog or otherwise. He wants to lay the foundations of a trans-Am bureaucracy that ensures low immigration *and* economic harmonization, staffed by good liberals like himself, naturally. I like the Koch Bros swipe but don’t see this ever becoming patriotic in flavor.

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  41. @JohnnyWalker123
    Bill and Hillary Clinton have made $139,097,232 in income since 2008.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-07-31/hillary-and-bill-clinton-paid-43-million-in-federal-taxes


    Hillary and Bill Clinton paid $43.9 million in federal taxes from 2007 through 2014 on adjusted gross income totaling $139,097,232, according to tax returns released by the former secretary of state's presidential campaign on Friday.

    That put the Clintons near the very, very top of the American economic scale. Their 2012 adjusted gross income of $19.7 million put them in the top 0.01 percent, a level reached by fewer than 14,000 households, and represents a meteoric rise for a couple that once depended on Hillary Clinton's law firm salary. She was the prime family breadwinner when Bill Clinton was making $35,000 a year as governor of Arkansas.
     

    Don’t forget Hillary was a wizard at trading cattle futures back in the 1970s , earning over $125,000 in just 6 months of day trading when Bill was governor…in fact she had not a single losing trade and made most of her profits by shorting the market during a bull market for cattle prices. She claimed she learned about trading cattle futures by reading the Wall Street Journal……the Clinton’s have always been crooks , selling their influence every minute of everyday since their days in Arkansas.

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    • Replies: @Hersh
    Hillary's cattle future trading getting exposed was the best thing that ever happened for the Clintons. It was like a big advertisement: "We are for sale." It was so sleazy that no one after that had the slightest concern that the Clintons might rebuff an offer.

    The reason the big donors like having a Bush dynasty is the same: The Bushes have established that they are for sale. Its a more important credential than any policy talking point. No one in the press talks about the old man and Global Crossing but the donors all know about it.
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  42. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    Search on vermont+refugee resettlement program. Maybe they are good at hiding the refugees.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    I moved from Vermont in 2011. While the entire state remains overwhelmingly white there are sections of Burlington where Africans, Arabs and othere NAMs are settling. I do sometimes wonder about the "retention rate," as Vermont remains a cold, snowy (part of the reason I left) and largely non-urban environment.
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  43. @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    That’s the way it was in suburbs of Chicago in the 70′s and 80′s. Now I feel like I am in a foreign country in some places.

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  44. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    How about NOT emulating Vermont. In lieu of that supersubtle head-fake strategy let’s just consolidate the gains after Trump pointed out that immigrants are costing us (despite agog fainting-couch media reaction)

    At this rate of genius iSteve comment contributions I wouldn’t be surprised to see someone extolling the San Francisco city council as the new Athens… the place is so scrumptiously white after all.

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  45. @JohnnyWalker123
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bernie-sanders-gop-talking-points_55bbf39be4b06363d5a2572a

    Immigration activists and Mark Zuckerberg are mad at Bernie Sanders.

    I'll give this much to Sanders. He's making all the right enemies.

    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    When Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said this week that he opposes open borders -- more a hypothetical than an actual policy proposal -- no one was shocked. The Democratic presidential candidate supported comprehensive immigration reform in 2013 and favors a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, but he's long been skeptical of guest worker programs and other legal immigration that could squeeze out American workers.



    Some immigration advocates, however, said they were surprised Sanders quickly went from talking about open borders to saying he doesn't want immigrants to take American jobs.



    Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing, but also repeated his concern that businesses want to bring foreign workers to the U.S. to take American jobs.



    "Those are the talking points that Republicans use to drive a wedge between Latinos and the African-American vote, saying, 'They're coming to take your jobs.' That at its core does not resonate and does not set him apart from the Republican Party," said Greisa Martinez, advocacy coordinator for United We Dream, a group led by undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children.



    Sanders' immigration policy stances are generally in step with advocacy groups. But as he struggles to win over minority voters, his tone matters. Some advocates said they have concerns that his opposition to new immigrant workers disrespects immigrants as a whole.



    FWD.us, the Mark Zuckerberg-backed group that advocates for immigration reform, was the first organization to criticize Sanders for his remarks to Vox. Todd Schulte, the group's executive director, wrote Wednesday that Sanders "falsely pits immigrants as an obstacle to tackling unemployment." He called that view "troubling," and noted that studies have found immigration boosts the economy.



    Sanders often says giving undocumented immigrants legal status would aid the economy, but his comments on new immigrants tend to hinge more on the idea of Americans losing their jobs -- to the chagrin of some advocates.



    "There's just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities, and that's something that should be part of the conversation instead of the frame of mind that immigrants can take jobs, which is incorrect," said Lizet Ocampo, associate director for immigration at the Center for American Progress, which has analyzed economic benefits of immigration reform.

     

    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    Yeah, sure, if you want to pay the taxes he wants from you to give to ….well, you know, the usual suspects.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    My tax money has been wasted on the "War on Terror" for around the last 15 years. I'd rather have what Sanders is selling than what I'd get from the Reps and "moderate" Dems.

    America doesn't get to have an affordable national healthcare system, but we get to fight endless wars in countries that the average American never heard of and give Wall Street bankers trillion-dollar bailouts. No way can socialism be worse than the current system.
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  46. “Trump Goes Mushy, Incoherent on Immigration” quotes the Great One saying thusly: “We have to bring great people into this country, okay? And I want to bring — I love the idea of immigration, but it’s got to be legal immigration. Now, a lot of these people are helping us, whether it’s the grapes, or whether it’s jobs, and sometimes it’s jobs, in all fairness, I love our country, but sometimes it’s jobs that a citizen of the United States doesn’t want to do. I mean, there are jobs that a lot of people don’t want to do. I want to move them out, and we’re going to move them back in, and let them be legal, but they have to be in here legally.…Otherwise, you don’t have a country. You don’t have a country, if people can just pour into the country illegally, you don’t have a country, but I would expedite the system.”

    There’s even more, and it gets even worse. The Great One’s Make America Great Plan is like the 2007 amnesty from odious conservative JeffFlake and even more odious illegal immigration fan @LuisGutierrez. The Great One might have even gotten his idea from an heiress who palled around with Dick Armey.

    I hate to say it, but I’m right yet again.

    While Sanders wants to legalize most illegal aliens, he’s miles ahead of Trump.

    For those who want to actually do something:

    1. Encourage Trump to use my much better arguments. I’ve been saying that for over a month, and if it had happened he’d be more popular with most Americans and he’d have prevented a lot of the attacks on him. He could have made the Vox types look bad, rather than the other way around. Those here and elsewhere could have helped Trump, helped the anti-amnesty effort, and helped the USA if they’d encouraged Trump to use better arguments. They decided it was better to in effect help Vox.

    2. Speaking of Vox, @DylanMatt of that fine site write a horrendously libertarian screed against Sanders’ interview with @EzraKlein. Start a campaign to discredit Matthews to his audience.

    3. Nudge Sanders more towards the anti-amnesty side. Pro-amnesty forces were able to get Hillary’s replacement to switch from against amnesty to strongly in favor of it in just a few days. Overcome the mental and emotional issues that keep the anti-amnesty side from doing that with Sanders, but in reverse.

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  47. @ABN
    Also, does anything say "Treason Lobby" quite like "Hispanic Chamber of Commerce"?

    Also, does anything say “Treason Lobby” quite like “Hispanic Chamber of Commerce”?

    American Israel Public Affairs Committee?

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  48. @International Jew
    Sanders is accidentally telling the truth all over the place:

    At one point, Mr. Sanders begged for the crowd’s indulgence to discuss his campaign platform before focusing on the “save our cities” subject of the gathering. But he called that “your theme” — an off-key remark, and one that echoed a speech he made on Thursday, in which he twice referred to Latinos as “your people” before the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
     
    From
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/politics/hillary-clinton-hits-jeb-bush-first-and-hard-in-speech-on-race.html?_r=0&referrer=

    Maybe it's just incipient senility. If so, I'm eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

    If so, I’m eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino 2013 = 93.8%

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  49. @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    I’m not quite sure how “of course” that is. I have some Jewish friends in Vermont, and they’ve never expressed any concern over the state’s overwhelmingly European character.

    For that matter, I tend to assume that White liberals who move to Vermont are quite comfortable with the state’s demographics.After all, if they really wanted to be around non-Whites, they wouldn’t have moved to Vermont in the first place.

    As Razib Khan would say, revealed preferences are quite informative….

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    • Replies: @SFG
    I don't know about 'of course', but I assume Harry Baldwin knows his friends. So that particular pair sees it as a problem.
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  50. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Being anti-immigrant is Sander’s way of attempting to triangulate his way into the good graces of black voters. Black elites and black ideology have a powerful grip on the Dem leadership, and Sanders knows that more Mexicans means fewer jobs for blacks, but something even more important. More Mexicans pouring into big US cities means more blacks are going to be driven out of their neighborhoods by Mexican gangs via ‘ethnic cleansing’, and blacks know it. Being anti-immigrant is one of the few ways Bernie can pocket the support of the black Dems.

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    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    I just about wet my pants laughing at the idea of Blacks voting in just the high single digits for Bernie simply because of his desperate temporary attention seeking immigration stance.

    Look Blacks have been conditioned by the PTB/TWMNBN not to vote for another immigration restrictionist like the eloquent late Barbara Jordan. Who did TWMNBN, namely Soros, spend a small fortune on to be the then deceased Jordan's eventual congressional replacement??? None other than Shelia Jackson Lee, the most insane Open Borders shill in the Congressional Black Caucus.

    Name one Black elected official at any level who is not an Open Borders loon!!!

    Ever listen to the internet broadcasts of the black anti-Open Borders advocate, the late great Terry Anderson straight out of Compton??? Anderson railed against the idea that Black politician have sold AAs on the idea that once Whites are in the minority they will be in charge. Anderson was one of the few blacks to ask what happens when Blacks are a minority in their own traditional neighborhoods and political districts.

    Today 95%+ of Blacks believe that Obama is the first major indication that that great Rainbow Coalition, "PoC" plan is coming true in spite of polls that show the majority of blacks are opposed to more immigration.

    Blacks for the largest part are still pro Open Borders because TWMNBN have for now bought off potential Hispanic rival politicians and convinced them to either not run or concede, in cases of clear voter fraud, to the existing Black politicians. It gives Blacks the illusion they will remain in relative power in the future.

    Case in point look at what has been happening in Charlie Rangel's congressional district the last couple of election cycles. Already in I think in at least a quarter of the current Black congressional seats, the districts have a greater number of Hispanics(legal and illegal) than Blacks.


    Now there is perhaps a way to get Blacks to come out and vote in opposition to Open Borders. This tactic would be very tricky to pull off however. It would require doing something like what the Alt-Right has done to Conservatism Inc with the Cuckservative meme to corrupt Black politicians like Shelia Jackson Lee who openly advocate replacing their Black constituency with Hispanics.

    But pulling off a "BlackCuck" or just "Bluck" or maybe "MotherBlucker" meme will be much tougher because there are no Black Trumps, a Black politician ready to come out swinging against Open Borders, that Blacks, once shocked with the "Red Pill", might flock to.
    , @Jefferson
    "Being anti-immigrant is Sander’s way of attempting to triangulate his way into the good graces of black voters. Black elites and black ideology have a powerful grip on the Dem leadership, and Sanders knows that more Mexicans means fewer jobs for blacks, but something even more important. More Mexicans pouring into big US cities means more blacks are going to be driven out of their neighborhoods by Mexican gangs via ‘ethnic cleansing’, and blacks know it. Being anti-immigrant is one of the few ways Bernie can pocket the support of the black Dems."

    More Mexicans pouring into the urban city centers will drive more ghetto underclass Blacks to the suburbs and that is a bad thing. Mexicans drove a lot of ghetto Blacks out of the city limits of Los Angeles and into Los Angeles suburbs like Lancaster and Palmdale who have seen a significant increase in their Black populations. These two suburbs now have a higher percentage of Blacks than the actual city of Los Angeles.
    , @Michaeloh59
    I cannot imagine why Sanders would calculate that he needs to be anti-immigrant to win the Black vote; adopting an anti white posture has proven to be a foolproof Black vote magnet and doesn't turn off the self hating white left.
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  51. But now Bernie Sander has come along with a bunch of arguments about the effects of various immigration policies. These aren’t terribly original arguments. They are about the same as the ones Samuel Gompers used to argue for immigration restriction in the 1920s.

    Forgive my self-indulgence. I can’t hear the name Samuel Gompers without thinking of Grace Slick & The Great Society singing Dylan’s Outlaw Blues (with revised lyrics).

    Robert Ford supposedly shot Jesse James in the back when James had turned his back to adjust a picture frame. That explains the second verse of Dylan’s song. But what could Samuel Gompers have done to connect himself similarly with Lady Jane?

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  52. @JohnnyWalker123
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bernie-sanders-gop-talking-points_55bbf39be4b06363d5a2572a

    Immigration activists and Mark Zuckerberg are mad at Bernie Sanders.

    I'll give this much to Sanders. He's making all the right enemies.

    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    When Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said this week that he opposes open borders -- more a hypothetical than an actual policy proposal -- no one was shocked. The Democratic presidential candidate supported comprehensive immigration reform in 2013 and favors a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, but he's long been skeptical of guest worker programs and other legal immigration that could squeeze out American workers.



    Some immigration advocates, however, said they were surprised Sanders quickly went from talking about open borders to saying he doesn't want immigrants to take American jobs.



    Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing, but also repeated his concern that businesses want to bring foreign workers to the U.S. to take American jobs.



    "Those are the talking points that Republicans use to drive a wedge between Latinos and the African-American vote, saying, 'They're coming to take your jobs.' That at its core does not resonate and does not set him apart from the Republican Party," said Greisa Martinez, advocacy coordinator for United We Dream, a group led by undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children.



    Sanders' immigration policy stances are generally in step with advocacy groups. But as he struggles to win over minority voters, his tone matters. Some advocates said they have concerns that his opposition to new immigrant workers disrespects immigrants as a whole.



    FWD.us, the Mark Zuckerberg-backed group that advocates for immigration reform, was the first organization to criticize Sanders for his remarks to Vox. Todd Schulte, the group's executive director, wrote Wednesday that Sanders "falsely pits immigrants as an obstacle to tackling unemployment." He called that view "troubling," and noted that studies have found immigration boosts the economy.



    Sanders often says giving undocumented immigrants legal status would aid the economy, but his comments on new immigrants tend to hinge more on the idea of Americans losing their jobs -- to the chagrin of some advocates.



    "There's just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities, and that's something that should be part of the conversation instead of the frame of mind that immigrants can take jobs, which is incorrect," said Lizet Ocampo, associate director for immigration at the Center for American Progress, which has analyzed economic benefits of immigration reform.

     

    A quote from that HuffPo article you excerpted:

    “Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing”

    So is Sanders insisting that no candidate is pushing open borders, or is HuffPo pointing out that the Overton Window prohibits any voter from even thinking that a candidate’s position might amount to pushing for open borders?

    Get me rewrite.

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  53. @International Jew
    Sanders is accidentally telling the truth all over the place:

    At one point, Mr. Sanders begged for the crowd’s indulgence to discuss his campaign platform before focusing on the “save our cities” subject of the gathering. But he called that “your theme” — an off-key remark, and one that echoed a speech he made on Thursday, in which he twice referred to Latinos as “your people” before the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
     
    From
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/politics/hillary-clinton-hits-jeb-bush-first-and-hard-in-speech-on-race.html?_r=0&referrer=

    Maybe it's just incipient senility. If so, I'm eagerly waiting for him to say something about how great it is in Vermont, to have a 98% white majority.

    Yes, it’s a sign of incipient senility–of the political system that renders “you people” and “your —” slander.
    This prohibition needs to be shredded. It’s an Orwellian power dynamic: “we” (given grievance group) are going to organize as “we”; we’re going to harangue you endlessly about “we” this and “we” that, and our posture toward you will be first and foremost accusatory–”you [white] people” is implied in everything we say–but God forbid you so much as notice we have become a distinct we by saying you.

    I refuse. Say it loud and proud: you, you, you, whiny bitch-ass POC screw-ups.

    Bernie’s only problem is he hasn’t had to run national before, and doesn’t know instinctively how to avoid stepping in the many rhetorical piles of shit.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Bernie’s only problem is he hasn’t had to run national before, and doesn’t know instinctively how to avoid stepping in the many rhetorical piles of shit.
     
    I don't know if the issue is national so much as it is nonwhite. Bernie caucuses with Dems in the Senate, so, in theory he's part of their rainbow coalition, but I suspect his supporters are mostly white. Tim Knight, a blogger, fintech entrepreneur, and stock trader in Palo Alto, tweeted that he went to a big Bernie Sanders meetup in Palo Alto this week. Can't imagine it was too diverse.

    I suspect Bernie is peeling off socially liberal but otherwise conservative white male Dems and Dem-voting independents. That could be deadly to Hillary.
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  54. @JohnnyWalker123
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bernie-sanders-gop-talking-points_55bbf39be4b06363d5a2572a

    Immigration activists and Mark Zuckerberg are mad at Bernie Sanders.

    I'll give this much to Sanders. He's making all the right enemies.

    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    When Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said this week that he opposes open borders -- more a hypothetical than an actual policy proposal -- no one was shocked. The Democratic presidential candidate supported comprehensive immigration reform in 2013 and favors a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, but he's long been skeptical of guest worker programs and other legal immigration that could squeeze out American workers.



    Some immigration advocates, however, said they were surprised Sanders quickly went from talking about open borders to saying he doesn't want immigrants to take American jobs.



    Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing, but also repeated his concern that businesses want to bring foreign workers to the U.S. to take American jobs.



    "Those are the talking points that Republicans use to drive a wedge between Latinos and the African-American vote, saying, 'They're coming to take your jobs.' That at its core does not resonate and does not set him apart from the Republican Party," said Greisa Martinez, advocacy coordinator for United We Dream, a group led by undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children.



    Sanders' immigration policy stances are generally in step with advocacy groups. But as he struggles to win over minority voters, his tone matters. Some advocates said they have concerns that his opposition to new immigrant workers disrespects immigrants as a whole.



    FWD.us, the Mark Zuckerberg-backed group that advocates for immigration reform, was the first organization to criticize Sanders for his remarks to Vox. Todd Schulte, the group's executive director, wrote Wednesday that Sanders "falsely pits immigrants as an obstacle to tackling unemployment." He called that view "troubling," and noted that studies have found immigration boosts the economy.



    Sanders often says giving undocumented immigrants legal status would aid the economy, but his comments on new immigrants tend to hinge more on the idea of Americans losing their jobs -- to the chagrin of some advocates.



    "There's just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities, and that's something that should be part of the conversation instead of the frame of mind that immigrants can take jobs, which is incorrect," said Lizet Ocampo, associate director for immigration at the Center for American Progress, which has analyzed economic benefits of immigration reform.

     

    To drive a wedge between African Americans and Latinos the Republicans would have to say they are coming after your government benefits. “They’re coming to take your jobs” only matters to people who are working or who plan on working.

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  55. We saw something really interesting today. We “married” our dog. He is an 11 year old Boxer and we adopted this 8 year old Boxer female.

    (Interestingly, the male doesn’t seem to give two shits about our idea and frankly is quite annoyed, or appears to be, at this female’s presence. I guess he is DGTOW. He pretty much ignores her except when he is annoyed at her pushiness and ass kissing, trying to ingratiate herself into the househould. I like to joke that in a few months he will be over in the comment section at Heartiste and Rational Male complaining about “Those Bitches”.)

    Anyway the “thing” was that we had to drive into upstate New York to pick her up. This was a fairly rural place with streets that have names like “Something Hollow”.

    And I would have thought I was in Alabama given all the Rebel Battle Flags I saw. Actually I lived in Montgomery and I didn’t see as many of these flags. Most of them saved their “Patriotism” for either Auburn or the Crimson Tide. But in upstate NY, the Rebel Battle Flag was everywhere, hanging from houses, flapping from cars, big ones mounted in the beds of pickup trucks fluttering behind in the wind.

    Of course these are the Bad Whites with the two digit IQ scores. And their votes will be washed away by the blue flood from NYC. But it was the most amazing thing to see.

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    • Replies: @Mark Minter
    Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?
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  56. @syonredux

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.
     
    I'm not quite sure how "of course" that is. I have some Jewish friends in Vermont, and they've never expressed any concern over the state's overwhelmingly European character.

    For that matter, I tend to assume that White liberals who move to Vermont are quite comfortable with the state's demographics.After all, if they really wanted to be around non-Whites, they wouldn't have moved to Vermont in the first place.

    As Razib Khan would say, revealed preferences are quite informative....

    I don’t know about ‘of course’, but I assume Harry Baldwin knows his friends. So that particular pair sees it as a problem.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I don’t know about ‘of course’, but I assume Harry Baldwin knows his friends. So that particular pair sees it as a problem.
     
    Sure.On the other hand, my friends (to the best of my knowledge) don't see it as a problem
    , @WhatEvvs
    The way I read it, Mr. Baldwin "of course" is meant to apply to all Jews. It doesn't apply to my Jewish friends most of whom are more or less Gomperian on the subject. The rest I trust can be shamed into supporting immigration restriction if it is sufficiently demonstrated that the majority culture has changed.

    I welcome correction.

    Since 'syon' isn't cutting and pasting today, I will:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/unions/what-samuel-gompers-had-say-about-illega.html


    "America must not be overwhelmed. Every effort to enact immigration legislation must expect to meet a number of hostile forces and, in particular, two hostile forces of considerable strength.

    "One of these is composed of corporation employers who desire to employ physical strength (broad backs) at the lowest possible wage and who prefer a rapidly revolving labor supply at low wages to a regular supply of American wage earners at fair wages.

    "The other is composed of racial groups in the United States who oppose all restrictive legislation because they want the doors left open for an influx of their countrymen regardless of the menace to the people of their adopted country.'
     

    Say it again Sam!

    Speak the truth!

    More from Conservapedia but I won't syonize you: read it yourselves.

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Samuel_Gompers

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  57. @Reg Cæsar
    I want to know how Bernie's constituents keep their state so white. It doesn't seem to have changed much since I subscribed to Vermont Life in the '70s.

    Not visibly, anyway.

    My pet theory: it’s the cold. Blacks and Hispanics evolved for warm temperatures (look at the African body plan, tall and lean with lots of sweat glands–perfect for losing heat!), so it’s just that less comfortable for them to be up there. Kind of like the way Eskimos always feel too hot when they try to leave.

    That, and the whole rural-roughing-it thing doesn’t appeal to vibrant types. I think Steve’s commented on how wilderness is a white thing.

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    That's what makes Somalians' immigration choices so puzzling. Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. It's not like there aren't any warm places in the First World. Nigerians are concentrated in Houston, for example. And it doesn't look like a random fluke that snowballed (heh) somehow. If it was just Sweden, I'd be OK with the fluke explanation. But from what I understand Somalians' top three First World destinations are actually Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. Something might be going on.
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  58. So Sanders* is* for open borders, but only with one country: Mexico …

    https://mobile.twitter.com/kausmickey/status/627323437485133824

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  59. @Hibernian
    Catholics voted very heavily Democratic before and during WW2, and this was the'30s and early to mid '40s. One of my great grandfathers was a Francophone from Montreal, and his grandchildren were, mostly, about the most conservative people around.

    Because of their bitter rivalry with the Irish over wich ethnicity controls the dioceses, parishes and parochial schools, in politics, French Canadians in New England were Republicans because the Irish were Democrats.

    https://books.google.ca/books?id=G_B3j-1DAg4C&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=%22republican+party%22+new+england+french+canadians&source=bl&ots=LVCaAVMSg0&sig=-qCDji0xPtkgRDfSN_OxIOxlc2I&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIkojc04SHxwIVBSweCh2WZgVR#v=onepage&q=%22republican%20party%22%20new%20england%20french%20canadians&f=false

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  60. @ABN
    Also, does anything say "Treason Lobby" quite like "Hispanic Chamber of Commerce"?

    Silicon Valley Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

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  61. @yaph
    african-americans don't like high elevations or rough terrain that much

    african-americans don’t like high elevations or rough terrain that much

    High elevations? Their most frequented ski area, Stowe, doesn’t reach 24oo ft. above sea level.

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  62. uh..don’t look now, but world champion bodybuilder/weightlifter Matt Kroczaleski has come out as transgender

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    • Replies: @fish
    Well already having "Bitch Tits" should save him some money!
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  63. @JohnnyWalker123
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bernie-sanders-gop-talking-points_55bbf39be4b06363d5a2572a

    Immigration activists and Mark Zuckerberg are mad at Bernie Sanders.

    I'll give this much to Sanders. He's making all the right enemies.

    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    When Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said this week that he opposes open borders -- more a hypothetical than an actual policy proposal -- no one was shocked. The Democratic presidential candidate supported comprehensive immigration reform in 2013 and favors a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, but he's long been skeptical of guest worker programs and other legal immigration that could squeeze out American workers.



    Some immigration advocates, however, said they were surprised Sanders quickly went from talking about open borders to saying he doesn't want immigrants to take American jobs.



    Sanders has insisted he was speaking about open borders, something no candidate is pushing, but also repeated his concern that businesses want to bring foreign workers to the U.S. to take American jobs.



    "Those are the talking points that Republicans use to drive a wedge between Latinos and the African-American vote, saying, 'They're coming to take your jobs.' That at its core does not resonate and does not set him apart from the Republican Party," said Greisa Martinez, advocacy coordinator for United We Dream, a group led by undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as children.



    Sanders' immigration policy stances are generally in step with advocacy groups. But as he struggles to win over minority voters, his tone matters. Some advocates said they have concerns that his opposition to new immigrant workers disrespects immigrants as a whole.



    FWD.us, the Mark Zuckerberg-backed group that advocates for immigration reform, was the first organization to criticize Sanders for his remarks to Vox. Todd Schulte, the group's executive director, wrote Wednesday that Sanders "falsely pits immigrants as an obstacle to tackling unemployment." He called that view "troubling," and noted that studies have found immigration boosts the economy.



    Sanders often says giving undocumented immigrants legal status would aid the economy, but his comments on new immigrants tend to hinge more on the idea of Americans losing their jobs -- to the chagrin of some advocates.



    "There's just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities, and that's something that should be part of the conversation instead of the frame of mind that immigrants can take jobs, which is incorrect," said Lizet Ocampo, associate director for immigration at the Center for American Progress, which has analyzed economic benefits of immigration reform.

     

    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: “contribution”. It is not necessarily positive.

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    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Immigration increases the size of the economy, but it also redistributes wealth from the working class to the rentier/capitalist class. The pie gets larger, but workers get smaller slices while over class elites get much larger slices.

    Immigration is good for the wealthy and the political class. Not good for ordinary workers.

    Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.
    , @Sprezzatura

    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: “contribution”. It is not necessarily positive.
     
    Natch.

    From 50 Action Words for Your Resume:

    A resume that's chock-full of phrases like responsible for, participated in, or contributed to isn't the worst thing on earth, but it doesn't say what you actually did in your job.
     
    , @Sprezzatura

    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: “contribution”. It is not necessarily positive.
     

    ↑Like.

    From 10 Resume Tips:


    Don’t make vague assertions, such as “contributed to product design” as this tells nothing about your actual contribution.
     
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  64. AP [AKA "Dr. Preobrazhensky"] says:
    @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    Not unrelated to this – VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably.

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    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    Wrong. All non-VT restrooms are dirty. We need to find a way to alleviate this inequality of bathroom cleanliness. Why should one get to experience clean bathrooms just because, by an accident of birth, they were born in VT? VT needs to subsidize the migration of Americans to VT so they too can experience clean bathrooms.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Not unrelated to this – VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably."

    You could probably drive from Spokane, Washington, to Portland, Maine, without encountering a single subpar highway rest stop bathroom.
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  65. @Jim Sweeney
    It is more than refreshing to listen to Sanders speaking because he speaks the truth without hesitation and not much coverup. He is, in fact, like Trump but less brash. And each of them has this wide appeal because of their frankness. Their ideologies may be different but each is clear and believable when he speaks. They are less likely to implode than Bush e.g., because when you tell your truth, you don't need to remember the talking points.

    Most of us are appalled by politicians and their parasitical flunkies giving smarmy bs answers to many issues of public interest, particularly the illegal alien question. Every one of them has been for securing the border and building the danged fence, And they've been saying it for years but we know there is no border security and there is no fence, danged, dinged or whatever. None believes any of the Republican elites. Not a single one of them has told the truth which is what Sanders and Trump are all about.

    I noticed, too, that Sister Sarah had some rogue comments about Trump today - now there's a ticket to curl Rove's toes: Trump-Palin would really change the calculus. On the other side, we could have Sanders-?????? Any suggestions?

    Another group of smarmies is the Roman Catholic hierarchy in their all aliens are good fetish. It has distanced me from my Church but not my Faith.

    Any suggestions?

    Yes, Trump/Sanders 2016. But since the Chamber of Commerce has enough power to deny Trump the Republican nomination it must be as a third party developed intellectually along the lines of the Front National in France (economic nationalist combined with Keynesian economics).

    It all comes down to Globalists vs. Nationalists. The economic Left (pre-Sanders) seem to decry the undeniable symptoms of globalization (concentration of wealth within a nation, leveling of first and third world countries with the first dropping a lot and the third world raising a little) yet they refuse to confront the disease. The economic Right on the other hand love the results (rich getting richer). Of course the well-educated urban bourgeoisie benefit most from globalization so their blindness is strategic. The bottom 67% suffer from it though. Keynes recognized this back in 1933. Economically the US is rushing towards the Right (rich getting richer).

    At the same time there is a countering rush towards the Left on the cultural front. Corporate power-grabbing “free” trade is “balanced” by a gay marriage ruling.

    When the middle becomes too narrow as the Dem/Rep in the US (or UMP/PS in France, or Tory/Labour in UK) they are vulnerable to attack from the fringes. The danger a Marine Le Pen poses to any power eliteis obvious, is Trump there to block a similar authentic challenge, or is he the real deal? Working class activists in both Dem/Rep parties are in open revolt against their parties’ corporatist ways. Can the nationalist right (Trump) combine with the Nationalist Left (Sanders). In France many former communist party cadres are joining the FN. What the legacy parties must do is keep the Left/Right fairy tale alive. People have to think it matters which of the two duplicate legacy parties wins. But if the two fringes could combine (Trump/Sanders) as they are already doing in France, then they would stand a chance over time (the impact of globalization is only getting worse) to throw the pendulum back towards economic nationalism.

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  66. @AP
    Not unrelated to this - VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably.

    Wrong. All non-VT restrooms are dirty. We need to find a way to alleviate this inequality of bathroom cleanliness. Why should one get to experience clean bathrooms just because, by an accident of birth, they were born in VT? VT needs to subsidize the migration of Americans to VT so they too can experience clean bathrooms.

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  67. @SFG
    My pet theory: it's the cold. Blacks and Hispanics evolved for warm temperatures (look at the African body plan, tall and lean with lots of sweat glands--perfect for losing heat!), so it's just that less comfortable for them to be up there. Kind of like the way Eskimos always feel too hot when they try to leave.

    That, and the whole rural-roughing-it thing doesn't appeal to vibrant types. I think Steve's commented on how wilderness is a white thing.

    That’s what makes Somalians’ immigration choices so puzzling. Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. It’s not like there aren’t any warm places in the First World. Nigerians are concentrated in Houston, for example. And it doesn’t look like a random fluke that snowballed (heh) somehow. If it was just Sweden, I’d be OK with the fluke explanation. But from what I understand Somalians’ top three First World destinations are actually Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. Something might be going on.

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    • Replies: @Zed, Lord of the Brutals
    Seriously? Look at the generosity of the Free Shit handouts in those places and see if it suddenly makes sense to you.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    I'm not sure I recall how this happened, but I thought the gov't just plunked those Somali refugees in Maine and Minnesota. And Sweden is actively importing unassimilable immigrants, so the opportunity is there, take it or leave it.
    , @ABN
    Sweden, Minnesota, and Maine are terminally afflicted with Nice White Lady Syndrome. In the case of Sweden and Minnesota it's the most malignant kind: Nice White Nordic Lutheran Lady Syndrome. Maine, for its part, might have some kind of self-righteous New England Puritan thing going on.

    Having said that, I suspect that in the case of refugee resettlement there's also a deliberate effort to find the whitest places and colonize them with vibrancy. It's an obnoxious, tactically-driven expression of "electing a new people," the way Scottish Protestants were "planted" in Ireland in order to counter Irish Catholic identity.

    Anthony Daniels wrote that the purpose of propaganda in the old communist bloc was not to deceive people but to humiliate them by shamelessly shoving outright lies in their face. I think the purpose behind imposing diversity in lily-white places is less to make people comfortable with diversity than to show them that they are no longer masters in their own home.
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  68. If Sanders is so anti-immigration why’d he vote for the Gang of 8 bill?

    Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?"

    Hillary is a woman and women are minorities.

    , @Paul Mendez

    Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?
     
    Michelle Obama, top of the ninth.
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  69. @leftist conservative
    both trump and sanders have taken brilliant approaches to denouncing immigration via a limited stalking horse.

    Trump is using criminal illegals to denounce immigration, via this limited stalking horse that is hard to deem as racist. After all, there is a heck of a lot of evidence that has already seeped into the consciousness of the white middle class, evidence that foreigners DO indeed commit a lot of crimes.

    And Sanders is denouncing immigration but limiting his attacks to 'open borders.' After all, very few "nice white middle class americans" would say that open borders is good.

    The key to both these approaches is to attack immigration and defy the media via an attack that cannot really be successfully characterized by the media as racist.


    Once the media can convince "nice white middle class americans" that you are a racist, you are doomed.

    By defying the media on immigration, both sanders and trump are attracting a group of high-information, keenly aware americans who think mass immigration is bad. This group of high-information voters can provide an early campaign boost.

    The key to this strategy is to use a limited stalking horse that cannot be used by the media to demonize you as racist. Once the media can successfully characterize you as racist, you have lost most of the "nice white middle class americans."

    This group of "nice white middle class americans" is much larger that the high-information anti-immigration voters, the ones who can boost your campaign early. You want to attract the high-information, activist voters by defying the media on immigration and at the same time not lose the "nice white middle class americans" by saying something that could be construed as racist.

    It's a fine line they both walk.

    Any argument can and will be called racist; you can’t be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn’t claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino’s complaint by saying, “you’re not black”.

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien.

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    • Replies: @JSM
    Here's the deal with the latest outrage. An illegal-made-legal by smelly B.O. administration killed a Good Samaritan couple and shot their daughter as they were trying to help him with his car breakdown.


    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/31/man-killed-montana-good-samaritans-because-daughter-laughed-at-him-say-cops/

    Bog standard crap, right? Nothing shocking to iSteve readers. But here's the extra hook: The couple who were killed were Crow Indians on their own Crow Indian reservation.

    You know what? During the Indian wars, Crow Indians actually were on the side of the Whites when we were struggling with the Sioux. So in some small modicum, I have a bit of extra sympathy for them, as they were our allies and kind of got the sh--- end of the stick.

    Ok, so here we have a Democratic admin who, we are assured by all the Great and Good, feel such empathy for the plight of minorities in America (and pretty much nothing at all for White folks.) His blessed Diversity from Mexico, who is descended, likely, from Aztecs who liked to murder the Crow Indians' sometimes-allies the Apache, came up here and murdered some Crow Indians.
    Jeebus. U.S. gov't, who put allies on a reservation, turns around and then fails to even protect them from their ancient enemies.

    How come no Democraps care about Crow Indians?

    , @Jefferson
    "Any argument can and will be called racist; you can’t be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn’t claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino’s complaint by saying, “you’re not black”.

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien."

    Hollywood still acts like it's pre-1965 Immigration Act America in their television and film casting choices where you see very few Amerindians/Mestizos and Asians. Nonwhite castings in Hollywood for television shows and films are overwhelmingly Black.

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  70. @JerseyGuy
    One thing you'll notice is that the vast majority of jobs that us metro area types would associate with immigrant labor (i.e. Dishwashers, mowing lawns, hotel maids, etc.) are still performed primarily by whites in Vermont.

    I guess the primary reasons it avoided so much immigration is that it is so far north and that it really doesn't have any major cities (Burlington isn't that big).

    It does have a very low birthrate and it has lost a lot of its young people unfortunately. To be honest, if you were a smart, blue-collar white, you would be better off going out West. Yes, there is still a lot to admire about Vermont's localism and conservationist mindset. However, it really doesn't create a lot of opportunities for young people, especially young men.

    It does have a very low birthrate and it has lost a lot of its young people unfortunately. To be honest, if you were a smart, blue-collar white, you would be better off going out West.

    This.

    New England, like much of white America in general, is rigged around an “industrialist” mindset. The long-running trade deficit in America has made the concentration of the population around a few large urban nodes inevitable. And mass immigration is a (highly successful) corporatist strategy to cover up demand for rising wages.

    At the same time, by manipulating the exchange rate (which if left alone would fall to correct the trade balance) or permitting trading partners to manipulate it, however, the plutocrats can become even more extraordinarily wealthy by not only domestic but also global standards, thus permitting them to indulge in an orgy of BMW importation and chic London-Paris-Cannes-Florence shopping sprees.

    They can get away with this for now ONLY because of the sheer volume of cultural, social and economic goodwill the U.S. possessed at the point of departure. Sooner or later the mass will be depleted, and they will be confronted with the impossibility of supporting a first-world military and first-world living standards atop a third world population and economy. Unfortunately, by then it may be too late for everyone.

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  71. @Anonymous
    I'm not so sure Bernie's endgame lines up with the 'sphere Program, a common fallacy around here w/ previous electioneers. He has expressed interest in a North American Union so he's still a wobbly internationationalist race/culture denier. What's interesting is that he has opened the attack on Globo-Liberalism's left flank, a sort of back-from-the-grave AFL-CIO tactic, which could lead to lots of buried ideas &grievances suddenly recirculating

    I do wonder what’s going on inside Bernie’s head. He doesn’t seem dumb or dishonest, so it’s possible that he’s coming to a late-in-life realization about some things. He considers himself a democratic socialist, but he seems to grok that what makes it work in Northern Europe is the predominantly Northern European demos. I don’t recall him praising Latin American examples of socialism, for example.

    So, a question I have is whether he will train his guns on Hillary. Does he have an aversion to that? As long as he can convince himself that the “right wing Koch brothers” and the Republicans are worse, he might hold his fire. But what if Trump keeps rising in the polls, making similar points on immigration? Bernie might be forced to realize that Hillary is further from him ideologically and politically than Trump.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    According to an article at Counterpunch, Bernie has already announced that he is going to throw his support to Hillary.
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  72. @George
    Search on vermont+refugee resettlement program. Maybe they are good at hiding the refugees.

    I moved from Vermont in 2011. While the entire state remains overwhelmingly white there are sections of Burlington where Africans, Arabs and othere NAMs are settling. I do sometimes wonder about the “retention rate,” as Vermont remains a cold, snowy (part of the reason I left) and largely non-urban environment.

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  73. @Dennis Dale
    Yes, it's a sign of incipient senility--of the political system that renders "you people" and "your ---" slander.
    This prohibition needs to be shredded. It's an Orwellian power dynamic: "we" (given grievance group) are going to organize as "we"; we're going to harangue you endlessly about "we" this and "we" that, and our posture toward you will be first and foremost accusatory--"you [white] people" is implied in everything we say--but God forbid you so much as notice we have become a distinct we by saying you.

    I refuse. Say it loud and proud: you, you, you, whiny bitch-ass POC screw-ups.

    Bernie's only problem is he hasn't had to run national before, and doesn't know instinctively how to avoid stepping in the many rhetorical piles of shit.

    Bernie’s only problem is he hasn’t had to run national before, and doesn’t know instinctively how to avoid stepping in the many rhetorical piles of shit.

    I don’t know if the issue is national so much as it is nonwhite. Bernie caucuses with Dems in the Senate, so, in theory he’s part of their rainbow coalition, but I suspect his supporters are mostly white. Tim Knight, a blogger, fintech entrepreneur, and stock trader in Palo Alto, tweeted that he went to a big Bernie Sanders meetup in Palo Alto this week. Can’t imagine it was too diverse.

    I suspect Bernie is peeling off socially liberal but otherwise conservative white male Dems and Dem-voting independents. That could be deadly to Hillary.

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  74. @Mark Minter
    We saw something really interesting today. We "married" our dog. He is an 11 year old Boxer and we adopted this 8 year old Boxer female.

    (Interestingly, the male doesn't seem to give two shits about our idea and frankly is quite annoyed, or appears to be, at this female's presence. I guess he is DGTOW. He pretty much ignores her except when he is annoyed at her pushiness and ass kissing, trying to ingratiate herself into the househould. I like to joke that in a few months he will be over in the comment section at Heartiste and Rational Male complaining about "Those Bitches".)

    Anyway the "thing" was that we had to drive into upstate New York to pick her up. This was a fairly rural place with streets that have names like "Something Hollow".

    And I would have thought I was in Alabama given all the Rebel Battle Flags I saw. Actually I lived in Montgomery and I didn't see as many of these flags. Most of them saved their "Patriotism" for either Auburn or the Crimson Tide. But in upstate NY, the Rebel Battle Flag was everywhere, hanging from houses, flapping from cars, big ones mounted in the beds of pickup trucks fluttering behind in the wind.

    Of course these are the Bad Whites with the two digit IQ scores. And their votes will be washed away by the blue flood from NYC. But it was the most amazing thing to see.

    Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?

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    • Replies: @Truth
    "Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?"

    Too late, Sport, you've just alerted the globalists to set up their next African missionaries, ISIS Gitmo dumps, and Guatemalan refugee centers in upstate New York. They had no idea until today, and it rides on YOUR head.
    , @Mike Sylwester
    Clever trick, Mark.
    , @ABN
    Yep, that's why the Left hates the Confederate flag--not because it's anti-American but because it's American. We (those of us who think that America is a particular place and people rather than some kind of Jacobin abstraction) are all Confederates now.
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  75. @Hibernian
    I think I would feel a little culture shock myself in a 100% white environment - and I grew up in a 99% white, 0.9% Hispanic, 0.1% Asian, and 0% black neighborhood in a city, if you could call it that, of 100,000 people in the Midwest, about 180 miles west of Chicago.

    At first there is perhaps a slightly strange feeling because of the novelty. But it becomes normal and comfortable pretty damn quick!

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  76. @SPMoore8
    Why am I getting all of these stories about Hispanic immigrants murdering people? This time, native Americans: and the guy looks the part:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/31/mexican-accused-double-murder-legal-immigrant/

    Committing the murders Americans won't?

    In that case shouldn’t Senor Mendoza get an H-1B visa?

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    I like your use of "Señor". It is a subliminal reminder that he is a member of an alien culture. From now on, I am going to refer to hispanicizers Bush and Cruz as Señor Boosh and Señor Cruz.
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  77. @tbraton
    I happened to major in economics in college, and one of the basic concepts of economics is "supply and demand." Supply and demand determine the price of everything; increase demand and the price will rise; increase supply and the price will fall, all other things remaining equal. I have been arguing for years in opposition to massive immigration that opening up our borders depresses the wages of lower income Americans, since they are the ones that generally uneducated and untrained immigrants compete with. I have been stating for years that "it is a simple case of supply and demand." If you increase the supply of anything, its price will fall. Since we are talking about wages, the "price of labor," admitting more immigrants (legal or illegal) will cause wages to fall. Nothing complicated. That's basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done. That's why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor. Americans for the most part are basically economically illiterate. I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he's saying it.

    It’s really simple.

    There are 3 factors of production – capital, labour and land.

    Normally you can lump land in with capital, so I will here.

    Now you have two goods, labour and capital. Immigrants always come with labour but rarely with capital. So immigrants increase the value of capital just as they decrease the value of labour.

    In this way it is easy to see why capitalists as in owners of lots of capital love immigration.

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  78. Bill Clinton covered up the smuggling of cocaine through Mena, Arkansas during the Iran-Contra era.

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  79. @bomag
    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: "contribution". It is not necessarily positive.

    Immigration increases the size of the economy, but it also redistributes wealth from the working class to the rentier/capitalist class. The pie gets larger, but workers get smaller slices while over class elites get much larger slices.

    Immigration is good for the wealthy and the political class. Not good for ordinary workers.

    Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.

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    • Replies: @Sprezzatura

    Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.
     
    Urban dictionary definition of hence why:

    ...'Hence why' does not equate to 'that's why'.
     
    , @map
    "Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders."

    But there is a third way to handle this problem: simply raise taxes to cover the living expenses of everyone displaced by immigration.

    This is why Bernie Sanders cannot be trusted. If capitalism benefits the capitalists, then socialism benefits the bureaucrat. Sanders is a bureaucrat who wants a calibrated immigration program that maintains the dominance of left-wing bureaucrats like himself while maintaining enough of a White/asian population to keep the lights on for people like Bernie Sanders.

    Sanders has been an anti-White left-wing activist for way too long of his life to regard any of his anti-immigrant positions to be anything but facially beneficial.

    Sanders really does not want to end immigration. He just wants Wall Street to pay for it. A Sanders' presidency will amount to nothing but grandstanding against Wall Street interest, with no drop in immigration and probably no increase on Wall Street taxes to pay for anything. it will be nothing more than an opportunity for theater.
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  80. @e
    If Sanders keeps talking like this, I might have to go ahead and vote for him.

    Yeah, sure, if you want to pay the taxes he wants from you to give to ....well, you know, the usual suspects.

    My tax money has been wasted on the “War on Terror” for around the last 15 years. I’d rather have what Sanders is selling than what I’d get from the Reps and “moderate” Dems.

    America doesn’t get to have an affordable national healthcare system, but we get to fight endless wars in countries that the average American never heard of and give Wall Street bankers trillion-dollar bailouts. No way can socialism be worse than the current system.

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    • Replies: @e
    And what makes you think Sanders wouldn't be both a high taxer, as he says he'd be, AND a guy who keeps sending your taxes out of the country for one thing or another?

    Oh, I see, you think he's sharing his real feelings about policy with you? Humph. Funny he's never spoken out against illegal immigration until he saw the traction Trump gained with it.

    Yeah, what a guy.
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  81. @Whiskey
    I don't see any above board, non-corrupt, non-insider way for an Ex-President and his wife to make almost $140 million in a little less than eight years. I just don't see it. And oddly enough (no, not really sarcasm voice) the media doesn't see that as suspicious in the least.

    Rule of thumb: you can tell how honest Presidents in office were by how much their personal wealth and affairs suffer, or prosper, after leaving office.
    ----------------------
    Sanders is doing his country a great service by telling the truth, even if carefully hedged.

    I agree. The $139 million is mostly pay off money, for services rendered.

    The Clintons make a joke of this country. Truly a banana republic.

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  82. @no name
    If Sanders is so anti-immigration why'd he vote for the Gang of 8 bill?

    Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?

    “Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?”

    Hillary is a woman and women are minorities.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they're considered a minority?
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  83. A trip into fantasyland: who would make a good running mate for Sanders? Most of the other candidates are North Eastern, too geographically close to Bernie. And the other ones are on the southern and western coasts – probably eager to pander to immigration lobbies. Maybe Jim Webb?

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    • Replies: @Mike Sylwester

    who would make a good running mate for Sanders?
     
    Hillary Clinton
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  84. @tbraton
    I happened to major in economics in college, and one of the basic concepts of economics is "supply and demand." Supply and demand determine the price of everything; increase demand and the price will rise; increase supply and the price will fall, all other things remaining equal. I have been arguing for years in opposition to massive immigration that opening up our borders depresses the wages of lower income Americans, since they are the ones that generally uneducated and untrained immigrants compete with. I have been stating for years that "it is a simple case of supply and demand." If you increase the supply of anything, its price will fall. Since we are talking about wages, the "price of labor," admitting more immigrants (legal or illegal) will cause wages to fall. Nothing complicated. That's basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done. That's why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor. Americans for the most part are basically economically illiterate. I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he's saying it.

    That’s why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor.

    I was reading about kelp in the wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelp) and I came across this bit of history:

    During the Highland Clearances, many Scottish Highlanders were moved off their crofts, and went to industries such as fishing and kelping (producing soda ash from the ashes of kelp). At least until the 1820s, when there were steep falls in the price of kelp, landlords wanted to create pools of cheap or virtually free labour, supplied by families subsisting in new crofting townships. Kelp collection and processing was a very profitable way of using this labour, and landlords petitioned successfully for legislation designed to stop emigration. But the economic collapse of the kelp industry in northern Scotland led to further emigration, especially to North America.

    Seems like a nice dual to the present migration policies in the developed countries. The same motivations, but an increasing vs decreasing supply of labour.

    I googled and learned that the Irish and some skilled trades in England also had restrictions on emigration in early 19th century. Does anyone know more examples of this kind of people-herding in post-Enlightenment history? (Russia had serfs long into the 19th century, of course.)

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    • Replies: @Bill P

    I googled and learned that the Irish and some skilled trades in England also had restrictions on emigration in early 19th century. Does anyone know more examples of this kind of people-herding in post-Enlightenment history? (Russia had serfs long into the 19th century, of course.)
     
    Sure, there was the Soviet Union's passport control policy. Here in the states guys who owe child support can't get passports. In China there's even an internal passport system that determines where you may live. It's very common to force productive people to stay put. Always has been if the Bible is any indication.
    , @tbraton
    Here's an example from Wikipedia I found a couple of weeks ago in searching for information re Haiti and the Dominican Republic:

    "However, the arrival of Haitians to the rest of the country [referring to the D.R.] began after the United States occupied both Haiti and the Dominican Republic around 1916, when US-owned sugar companies imported, annually, thousands of Haitian workers to cut costs.[17]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitians_in_the_Dominican_Republic

    [Another Wikipedia site makes this point without any sense of irony: "Though migration from Haiti to the Dominican is economically beneficial to both countries, it is one of the leading contributors to tension between the two countries as well; illegal immigration from Haiti resonates high dissonance with the Dominican people. It has led to anti-Haitian feelings and mistrust of the Haitian people. Another problem with Haitian migration into Dominican Republic is that it blurs the line of citizenship. This factor of migration affects not only Dominican economy but its culture as well.[23]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic%E2%80%93Haiti_relations ]

    Based on memory, I also seem to recall reading that in the early days of the revolutionary Model T, Henry Ford gained fame by offering $5 a day to his workers. It was necessary for Ford to offer such a stupendous amount in order to attract workers to his production lines, for only such a large pay incentive could attract American workers from surrounding farms. Those stupid American workers for some reason preferred working in the open air to being confined to an indoor production line, such as the one satirized in 1936 by Chaplin in "Modern Times." After a number of years, unable to obtain enough American workers or unwilling to increase pay, Ford resorted to importing workers from the Middle East, specifically Lebanon.(I am sketchy in my knowledge about that and don't know whether he merely advertised jobs in Lebanon or had agents there actively recruiting workers.) That was the beginning of the Arab presence in the Detroit area. [It wasn't just Arabs. In Jeffrey Eugenides' excellent novel "Middlesex" which won the Pulitzer Prize in 2002, one of the characters is a Greek forced to flee Turkey in the early 20's who winds up in Detroit and goes to work for Ford. He portrays the horror of working on an auto production line in the 20's. But the character came here voluntarily and wasn't recruited by Ford. The immigration laws were severely tightened in the early 20's and remained so until the worst of the Great Society legislation, the Immigration Act of 1965.]

    Not responsive to your point about "people herding," but illustrative of my original point about "supply and demand" in the area of employment, which your "kelp" example also makes.

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  85. @Mike Sylwester
    Scientific Progressives within the Democratic Party make racism accusations reflexively against anybody who disagrees with their political opinions. Sanders' position against illegal immigration confuses that reflex. They will have to hesitate and think for a moment before hurling racism accusations as long as Sanders continues to run.

    Scientific Progressives within the Democratic Party

    Confusing term!!! Today’s Progressives are almost all Boazians and Cultural Marxists, strict adherents to the Standard Social Science Model complete perverters of science to justify their world view. Think Thomas Jay Gould and Richard Lowentin.

    The early twentieth century Progressives influenced by Darwin and Galton were the Scientific Progressives.

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  86. @Harry Baldwin
    My wife and I were driving through northern Vermont last fall and stopped at an Appleby's on a Friday night for dinner. The place was packed, there must have been a couple of hundred people there, including the waiting line. We walked through the restaurant to the back where we could place a take-out order. After we left, I asked my wife if she'd noticed anything unusual. She's not particularly race conscious, but answered, "Every single person there was white."

    Of course, the Jewish friends we were up there to visit see that as a problem.

    Why are they you’re friends then?

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    I still like them. Politics aren't everything, and the politics of any ordinary individual don't have any impact on the grand scheme of things.
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  87. I don’t trust Bernie Sanders.

    It’s all too convenient…the first black president, the first Jewish president….

    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration…and these are just words.

    He won’t ACTUALLY do anything. There’s no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)

    My view of iSteve commentators is some Tinder whore getting plowed lol in her trashy one room studio NYC apartment LOL HAHAHAHA

    “But he said he loved me!” LOL!

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    • Replies: @e
    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration…and these are just words.

    He won’t ACTUALLY do anything. There’s no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)



    Ain't it the truth.
    , @AnAnon
    Now that he and his followers are being attacked by them, he and they may be willing to pivot on this issue, but yeah, he basically said that America should have amnesty number 8 in that piece.
    , @ABN
    I don't think many people here necessarily assume that Trump or Sanders are the people we want them to be. At the end of the day, I have little confidence that either of these men "gets it" on the National Question.

    But as long as they make the right enemies for the right reasons, that's something we can work with to demonstrate the grassroots popularity of immigration restriction and shift the Overton Window. To borrow a phrase: they're not using us; we're using them.
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  88. @ABN
    Also, does anything say "Treason Lobby" quite like "Hispanic Chamber of Commerce"?

    Does anything not scream TWMNBN funded astro-turf like “Hispanic Chamber of Commerce” , not to mention La Raza, NALEO, MEChA, LULAC, the list goes on and on.

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  89. @Mark Minter
    Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?

    “Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?”

    Too late, Sport, you’ve just alerted the globalists to set up their next African missionaries, ISIS Gitmo dumps, and Guatemalan refugee centers in upstate New York. They had no idea until today, and it rides on YOUR head.

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  90. @ABN
    Here's a grand bargain that wouldn't be any worse than what we have now.

    How about we indulge more Vermontish Left-sanctimony (rainbow flags for all!) in exchange for a commitment by the Left to strive for Vermont demographics throughout the country? How about it, Bernie?

    Rainbow flags is ducking the real issues. Are you ready to turn Exxon into Statoil, Bulge Bracket Banks into DNB ASA, cut the defense budget by 65%, single payer health care, etc?

    The left will commit to Vermont Demographics when people commit to Norwegian economic structure.

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  91. @Jim Sweeney
    It is more than refreshing to listen to Sanders speaking because he speaks the truth without hesitation and not much coverup. He is, in fact, like Trump but less brash. And each of them has this wide appeal because of their frankness. Their ideologies may be different but each is clear and believable when he speaks. They are less likely to implode than Bush e.g., because when you tell your truth, you don't need to remember the talking points.

    Most of us are appalled by politicians and their parasitical flunkies giving smarmy bs answers to many issues of public interest, particularly the illegal alien question. Every one of them has been for securing the border and building the danged fence, And they've been saying it for years but we know there is no border security and there is no fence, danged, dinged or whatever. None believes any of the Republican elites. Not a single one of them has told the truth which is what Sanders and Trump are all about.

    I noticed, too, that Sister Sarah had some rogue comments about Trump today - now there's a ticket to curl Rove's toes: Trump-Palin would really change the calculus. On the other side, we could have Sanders-?????? Any suggestions?

    Another group of smarmies is the Roman Catholic hierarchy in their all aliens are good fetish. It has distanced me from my Church but not my Faith.

    Sanders-Webb? Give Bernie some cred on Foreign Affairs. They both voted against Iraq.

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    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Sanders-Webb? Give Bernie some cred on Foreign Affairs. They both voted against Iraq."

    All the more reason Webb should get the Veep slot.

    Webb would help Sanders win a general election, and he's about the best Democrat we could hope for, as far as who might take over, in the event that a very elderly President Sanders, were unable to complete his term of office.
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  92. @Esso

    That’s why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor.
     
    I was reading about kelp in the wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelp) and I came across this bit of history:

    During the Highland Clearances, many Scottish Highlanders were moved off their crofts, and went to industries such as fishing and kelping (producing soda ash from the ashes of kelp). At least until the 1820s, when there were steep falls in the price of kelp, landlords wanted to create pools of cheap or virtually free labour, supplied by families subsisting in new crofting townships. Kelp collection and processing was a very profitable way of using this labour, and landlords petitioned successfully for legislation designed to stop emigration. But the economic collapse of the kelp industry in northern Scotland led to further emigration, especially to North America.
     
    Seems like a nice dual to the present migration policies in the developed countries. The same motivations, but an increasing vs decreasing supply of labour.

    I googled and learned that the Irish and some skilled trades in England also had restrictions on emigration in early 19th century. Does anyone know more examples of this kind of people-herding in post-Enlightenment history? (Russia had serfs long into the 19th century, of course.)

    I googled and learned that the Irish and some skilled trades in England also had restrictions on emigration in early 19th century. Does anyone know more examples of this kind of people-herding in post-Enlightenment history? (Russia had serfs long into the 19th century, of course.)

    Sure, there was the Soviet Union’s passport control policy. Here in the states guys who owe child support can’t get passports. In China there’s even an internal passport system that determines where you may live. It’s very common to force productive people to stay put. Always has been if the Bible is any indication.

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  93. @Jim Sweeney
    It is more than refreshing to listen to Sanders speaking because he speaks the truth without hesitation and not much coverup. He is, in fact, like Trump but less brash. And each of them has this wide appeal because of their frankness. Their ideologies may be different but each is clear and believable when he speaks. They are less likely to implode than Bush e.g., because when you tell your truth, you don't need to remember the talking points.

    Most of us are appalled by politicians and their parasitical flunkies giving smarmy bs answers to many issues of public interest, particularly the illegal alien question. Every one of them has been for securing the border and building the danged fence, And they've been saying it for years but we know there is no border security and there is no fence, danged, dinged or whatever. None believes any of the Republican elites. Not a single one of them has told the truth which is what Sanders and Trump are all about.

    I noticed, too, that Sister Sarah had some rogue comments about Trump today - now there's a ticket to curl Rove's toes: Trump-Palin would really change the calculus. On the other side, we could have Sanders-?????? Any suggestions?

    Another group of smarmies is the Roman Catholic hierarchy in their all aliens are good fetish. It has distanced me from my Church but not my Faith.

    Listen to Sanders’ answer to Jane Lindholm in June 2014, starting at 3:08 and ending at 4:08.

    http://digital.vpr.net/post/va-crisis-unfolds-sanders-plays-key-role

    This here [i.e., V.A. Hospital wait-times] is not a new issue… the inspector general over the years… the general accountability office over the years… issued reports that this was a problem, memos from the Washington VA said this was a problem… ONE HAD BELIEVED given all these reports, given all the memos, that it was a problem that had been addressed, obviously it had not been addressed.

    Why, given all the reports that it was a problem, did the person perhaps second to the president most responsible for holding the VA to account just assume it was a problem that had been fixed? Wouldn’t one report or memo after another suggest the problem was persistent? Sanders is a perfect example of failure of government.

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  94. @Anon
    Being anti-immigrant is Sander's way of attempting to triangulate his way into the good graces of black voters. Black elites and black ideology have a powerful grip on the Dem leadership, and Sanders knows that more Mexicans means fewer jobs for blacks, but something even more important. More Mexicans pouring into big US cities means more blacks are going to be driven out of their neighborhoods by Mexican gangs via 'ethnic cleansing', and blacks know it. Being anti-immigrant is one of the few ways Bernie can pocket the support of the black Dems.

    I just about wet my pants laughing at the idea of Blacks voting in just the high single digits for Bernie simply because of his desperate temporary attention seeking immigration stance.

    Look Blacks have been conditioned by the PTB/TWMNBN not to vote for another immigration restrictionist like the eloquent late Barbara Jordan. Who did TWMNBN, namely Soros, spend a small fortune on to be the then deceased Jordan’s eventual congressional replacement??? None other than Shelia Jackson Lee, the most insane Open Borders shill in the Congressional Black Caucus.

    Name one Black elected official at any level who is not an Open Borders loon!!!

    Ever listen to the internet broadcasts of the black anti-Open Borders advocate, the late great Terry Anderson straight out of Compton??? Anderson railed against the idea that Black politician have sold AAs on the idea that once Whites are in the minority they will be in charge. Anderson was one of the few blacks to ask what happens when Blacks are a minority in their own traditional neighborhoods and political districts.

    Today 95%+ of Blacks believe that Obama is the first major indication that that great Rainbow Coalition, “PoC” plan is coming true in spite of polls that show the majority of blacks are opposed to more immigration.

    Blacks for the largest part are still pro Open Borders because TWMNBN have for now bought off potential Hispanic rival politicians and convinced them to either not run or concede, in cases of clear voter fraud, to the existing Black politicians. It gives Blacks the illusion they will remain in relative power in the future.

    Case in point look at what has been happening in Charlie Rangel’s congressional district the last couple of election cycles. Already in I think in at least a quarter of the current Black congressional seats, the districts have a greater number of Hispanics(legal and illegal) than Blacks.

    Now there is perhaps a way to get Blacks to come out and vote in opposition to Open Borders. This tactic would be very tricky to pull off however. It would require doing something like what the Alt-Right has done to Conservatism Inc with the Cuckservative meme to corrupt Black politicians like Shelia Jackson Lee who openly advocate replacing their Black constituency with Hispanics.

    But pulling off a “BlackCuck” or just “Bluck” or maybe “MotherBlucker” meme will be much tougher because there are no Black Trumps, a Black politician ready to come out swinging against Open Borders, that Blacks, once shocked with the “Red Pill”, might flock to.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Case in point look at what has been happening in Charlie Rangel’s congressional district the last couple of election cycles. Already in I think in at least a quarter of the current Black congressional seats, the districts have a greater number of Hispanics(legal and illegal) than Blacks."

    Charlie Rangel is half Hispanic, so it makes perfect sense why he is pro-open borders.
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  95. Thanks Bernie!! For de-glorifying illegal immigration! :) Thus helping The Donald.
    Another reason Bernie did this is to extend himself being the anti-Hillary. I have always said that lots of libs and democrats are anti-open borders. That they just need a good push. So Bernie can steal these primary votes from execrable Hillary. Who has no executive experience but plenty of execrable experience.
    Being from ultra white Vermont, Bernie is more in tune with the aspirations of poor and middle class whites than many of the hacks in DC. He is a real socialist who empathizes with them unlike 90% of Senators and Representatives who despise them and despise groveling for their votes come election time.
    Only bugaboo is that I don’t agree with Bernie’s socialist solutions.

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    • Replies: @map
    Bernie Sanders does not empathize with anyone but Bernie Sanders.
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  96. @O'really
    uh..don't look now, but world champion bodybuilder/weightlifter Matt Kroczaleski has come out as transgender

    Well already having “Bitch Tits” should save him some money!

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  97. @SFG
    I don't know about 'of course', but I assume Harry Baldwin knows his friends. So that particular pair sees it as a problem.

    I don’t know about ‘of course’, but I assume Harry Baldwin knows his friends. So that particular pair sees it as a problem.

    Sure.On the other hand, my friends (to the best of my knowledge) don’t see it as a problem

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  98. @ScarletNumber
    Of course, this is one of the issues where is it ok to punch down, for some reason.

    It is amazing how people love taking the side of winners and making fun of losers. The reason it is amazing is that most of these people would identify as Christian. I am shocked SHOCKED that people are hypocrites vis-a-vis their religion.

    More than Christian Republicans who love to let the rich exploit the poor and middle class and loot the USA? Or Catholic liberals ignoring Church teaching on abortion and homosexuality (which is actually in the Bible)? Religious hypocrisy is something everyone does.

    I don’t remember exactly what Judaism says on rich and poor, but I’m sure all the businessmen there are breaking some line of Torah.

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  99. @Jim Sweeney
    It is more than refreshing to listen to Sanders speaking because he speaks the truth without hesitation and not much coverup. He is, in fact, like Trump but less brash. And each of them has this wide appeal because of their frankness. Their ideologies may be different but each is clear and believable when he speaks. They are less likely to implode than Bush e.g., because when you tell your truth, you don't need to remember the talking points.

    Most of us are appalled by politicians and their parasitical flunkies giving smarmy bs answers to many issues of public interest, particularly the illegal alien question. Every one of them has been for securing the border and building the danged fence, And they've been saying it for years but we know there is no border security and there is no fence, danged, dinged or whatever. None believes any of the Republican elites. Not a single one of them has told the truth which is what Sanders and Trump are all about.

    I noticed, too, that Sister Sarah had some rogue comments about Trump today - now there's a ticket to curl Rove's toes: Trump-Palin would really change the calculus. On the other side, we could have Sanders-?????? Any suggestions?

    Another group of smarmies is the Roman Catholic hierarchy in their all aliens are good fetish. It has distanced me from my Church but not my Faith.

    In my opinion, everything the Roman Catholic church does is for the purpose of distracting from the priest scandal. Pope Francis and the poor and climate change and letting in immigrants (but not into Vatican City) – its all about the priest scandal, which was really a homosexual scandal.

    Overwhelmingly, the victims were adolescents who were seduced by priests because thats what homosexuals do. Its the story of the scorpion who gets the frog to let him ride on his back across the river but stings the frog anyway because thats his nature. If homosexuals have access, it will happen. Allowing homosexuals to adopt children means those children have a very good chance of being molested by their “parents” or their parents’ friends.

    They can’t stop priests molesting kids unless they open up the priesthood to married men (and pay a decent salary). So lets talk about something else! And get praised for it. Pope Francis acts like he’s oblivious to the fact that Catholic priests are almost all homosexually- oriented and most are or have been active homosexuals. When has he ever said anything about it? He runs an empire of child molesters and child molester-facilitators and when he comes here later this year, he’s going to be treated like he’s a Great Wonder because he lectures about the poor and climate change and letting migrants invade your country (but not Vatican City).

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  100. @Dave Pinsen
    Any argument can and will be called racist; you can't be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn't claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino's complaint by saying, "you're not black".

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien.

    Here’s the deal with the latest outrage. An illegal-made-legal by smelly B.O. administration killed a Good Samaritan couple and shot their daughter as they were trying to help him with his car breakdown.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/31/man-killed-montana-good-samaritans-because-daughter-laughed-at-him-say-cops/

    Bog standard crap, right? Nothing shocking to iSteve readers. But here’s the extra hook: The couple who were killed were Crow Indians on their own Crow Indian reservation.

    You know what? During the Indian wars, Crow Indians actually were on the side of the Whites when we were struggling with the Sioux. So in some small modicum, I have a bit of extra sympathy for them, as they were our allies and kind of got the sh— end of the stick.

    Ok, so here we have a Democratic admin who, we are assured by all the Great and Good, feel such empathy for the plight of minorities in America (and pretty much nothing at all for White folks.) His blessed Diversity from Mexico, who is descended, likely, from Aztecs who liked to murder the Crow Indians’ sometimes-allies the Apache, came up here and murdered some Crow Indians.
    Jeebus. U.S. gov’t, who put allies on a reservation, turns around and then fails to even protect them from their ancient enemies.

    How come no Democraps care about Crow Indians?

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  101. @Travis
    Don't forget Hillary was a wizard at trading cattle futures back in the 1970s , earning over $125,000 in just 6 months of day trading when Bill was governor...in fact she had not a single losing trade and made most of her profits by shorting the market during a bull market for cattle prices. She claimed she learned about trading cattle futures by reading the Wall Street Journal......the Clinton's have always been crooks , selling their influence every minute of everyday since their days in Arkansas.

    Hillary’s cattle future trading getting exposed was the best thing that ever happened for the Clintons. It was like a big advertisement: “We are for sale.” It was so sleazy that no one after that had the slightest concern that the Clintons might rebuff an offer.

    The reason the big donors like having a Bush dynasty is the same: The Bushes have established that they are for sale. Its a more important credential than any policy talking point. No one in the press talks about the old man and Global Crossing but the donors all know about it.

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  102. @JohnnyWalker123
    Immigration increases the size of the economy, but it also redistributes wealth from the working class to the rentier/capitalist class. The pie gets larger, but workers get smaller slices while over class elites get much larger slices.

    Immigration is good for the wealthy and the political class. Not good for ordinary workers.

    Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.

    Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.

    Urban dictionary definition of hence why:

    …’Hence why’ does not equate to ‘that’s why’.

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  103. @Dave Pinsen
    Any argument can and will be called racist; you can't be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn't claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino's complaint by saying, "you're not black".

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien.

    “Any argument can and will be called racist; you can’t be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn’t claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino’s complaint by saying, “you’re not black”.

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien.”

    Hollywood still acts like it’s pre-1965 Immigration Act America in their television and film casting choices where you see very few Amerindians/Mestizos and Asians. Nonwhite castings in Hollywood for television shows and films are overwhelmingly Black.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619 when the first African slaves were brought to America or at least 1808 when importation of slaves was barred, which is a lot longer than most whites in this country can claim. They may not have come over in the Mayflower, but they did come over soon thereafter in less luxurious accommodations. (Actually, since the Mayflower arrived in 1620, some blacks can trace their roots back even before then.) Not excusing the execrable behavior of too many blacks today, which truly merits criticism, but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.
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  104. @bomag
    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: "contribution". It is not necessarily positive.

    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: “contribution”. It is not necessarily positive.

    Natch.

    From 50 Action Words for Your Resume:

    A resume that’s chock-full of phrases like responsible for, participated in, or contributed to isn’t the worst thing on earth, but it doesn’t say what you actually did in your job.

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  105. @AP
    Not unrelated to this - VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably.

    “Not unrelated to this – VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably.”

    You could probably drive from Spokane, Washington, to Portland, Maine, without encountering a single subpar highway rest stop bathroom.

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    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    I have to admit, there are few things fouler and scarier than rest stops and gas station restrooms in the deep South. In my personal list of things I wish my people would improve, that's at the top.
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  106. which is basically, are you a Good person or a Bad person?

    From Caddyshack:

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  107. @Glossy
    That's what makes Somalians' immigration choices so puzzling. Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. It's not like there aren't any warm places in the First World. Nigerians are concentrated in Houston, for example. And it doesn't look like a random fluke that snowballed (heh) somehow. If it was just Sweden, I'd be OK with the fluke explanation. But from what I understand Somalians' top three First World destinations are actually Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. Something might be going on.

    Seriously? Look at the generosity of the Free Shit handouts in those places and see if it suddenly makes sense to you.

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    • Replies: @JSM
    You remember the Ebola black guy? He emigrated *out* of his own-color Liberia and into oh-so-racist Minnesota. And guess where he settled? Coon Rapids.

    As Dave Barry used to say, I am not making this up.

    http://www.startribune.com/ebola-kills-coon-rapids-father-working-in-liberia/269150151/

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  108. @bomag
    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: "contribution". It is not necessarily positive.

    There’s just overwhelming information about how immigrants contribute to our economy and to our communities

    Note the wording: “contribution”. It is not necessarily positive.

    ↑Like.

    From 10 Resume Tips:

    Don’t make vague assertions, such as “contributed to product design” as this tells nothing about your actual contribution.

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  109. @Anonymous
    The one recent obvious hitch to the Bellingham/Vermont strategy is that it doesn't do much to protect you from heroin & meth vibrancy. They have more success keeping out Walmart or McDonald's

    The one recent obvious hitch to the Bellingham/Vermont strategy is that it doesn’t do much to protect you from heroin & meth vibrancy.

    Doesn’t 98% of that deadly crap come from Mexico these days? Another reason to lock down the border tight as a drum. Plus institute the death penalty for large scale dealers of such poisons. Trump should empathize all the drugs coming across. This synchronizes with the growing anti-illegal aliens mood.

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  110. @Robert Hume
    Sanders-Webb? Give Bernie some cred on Foreign Affairs. They both voted against Iraq.

    “Sanders-Webb? Give Bernie some cred on Foreign Affairs. They both voted against Iraq.”

    All the more reason Webb should get the Veep slot.

    Webb would help Sanders win a general election, and he’s about the best Democrat we could hope for, as far as who might take over, in the event that a very elderly President Sanders, were unable to complete his term of office.

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  111. @Gato de la Biblioteca
    In that case shouldn't Senor Mendoza get an H-1B visa?

    I like your use of “Señor”. It is a subliminal reminder that he is a member of an alien culture. From now on, I am going to refer to hispanicizers Bush and Cruz as Señor Boosh and Señor Cruz.

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  112. e says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    My tax money has been wasted on the "War on Terror" for around the last 15 years. I'd rather have what Sanders is selling than what I'd get from the Reps and "moderate" Dems.

    America doesn't get to have an affordable national healthcare system, but we get to fight endless wars in countries that the average American never heard of and give Wall Street bankers trillion-dollar bailouts. No way can socialism be worse than the current system.

    And what makes you think Sanders wouldn’t be both a high taxer, as he says he’d be, AND a guy who keeps sending your taxes out of the country for one thing or another?

    Oh, I see, you think he’s sharing his real feelings about policy with you? Humph. Funny he’s never spoken out against illegal immigration until he saw the traction Trump gained with it.

    Yeah, what a guy.

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  113. @Anonymous
    It isn't senility. Steve hit the nail on the head when he compared him with Gompers.

    Add Booker T Washington and Frederick Douglass to Gompers as well.

    BTW railed against open borders in his famous 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech

    To those of the white race who look to the incoming of those of foreign birth and strange tongue and habits for the prosperity of the South, were I permitted, I would repeat what I have said to my own race: “Cast down your bucket where you are.” Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your fireside. Cast down your bucket among these people who have without strikes and labor wars tilled your fields, cleared your forests, builded your railroads and cities, brought forth treasures from the bowels of the earth, just to make possible this magnificent representation of the progress of the South.

    Frederick Douglass was brutally honest:

    There is no mistaking the purpose and destiny to which a portion of our white fellow-citizens would devote the colored people of this country. In the vigorous efforts now making to import Coolies from China — a kind of Asiatic slave-trade — with a view to supplant the black laborer in the South.

    Douglass, further:

    [With open borders] the capitalist shall be able to command all the laborers he wants, at prices only enough to keep the laborer above the point of starvation . . . The former slave owners of the South want cheap labor; they want it from Germany and from Ireland; they want it from China and Japan; they want it from anywhere in the world, but from Africa. They want to be independent of their former slaves, and bring their noses to the grindstone.

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  114. @Mark Minter
    Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?

    Clever trick, Mark.

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  115. e says:
    @Robbie
    I don't trust Bernie Sanders.

    It's all too convenient...the first black president, the first Jewish president....

    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration...and these are just words.

    He won't ACTUALLY do anything. There's no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)

    My view of iSteve commentators is some Tinder whore getting plowed lol in her trashy one room studio NYC apartment LOL HAHAHAHA

    "But he said he loved me!" LOL!

    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration…and these are just words.

    He won’t ACTUALLY do anything. There’s no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)

    Ain’t it the truth.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Bernie doesn't have to "do something" in office to "do something" right now. By messing up the easy rhetoric of "anti-immigration=evil white racist Republican", he helps confound the Cathedral.

    The Cathedral is desperate to get both Bernie and Trump to moderate to a more central Cathedral position.

    The longer they both hold out, the better for all of us. The Cathedral's immediate goal, I expect, is to get them both to agree to an "amnesty-now-enforcement-later" position as soon as possible (like, yesterday). This position, however, will make them no different from all the other bought-and-paid-for candidates.

    Who knows? The longer they both keep gathering votes, the more pressure will be applied to the other candidates, and the other candidates may start to grow a spine as well. People will start "noticing" and talking to each other. Every day of public "noticing" is dangerous for the Cathedral.
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  116. @AshTon
    A trip into fantasyland: who would make a good running mate for Sanders? Most of the other candidates are North Eastern, too geographically close to Bernie. And the other ones are on the southern and western coasts - probably eager to pander to immigration lobbies. Maybe Jim Webb?

    who would make a good running mate for Sanders?

    Hillary Clinton

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  117. @tbraton
    I happened to major in economics in college, and one of the basic concepts of economics is "supply and demand." Supply and demand determine the price of everything; increase demand and the price will rise; increase supply and the price will fall, all other things remaining equal. I have been arguing for years in opposition to massive immigration that opening up our borders depresses the wages of lower income Americans, since they are the ones that generally uneducated and untrained immigrants compete with. I have been stating for years that "it is a simple case of supply and demand." If you increase the supply of anything, its price will fall. Since we are talking about wages, the "price of labor," admitting more immigrants (legal or illegal) will cause wages to fall. Nothing complicated. That's basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done. That's why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor. Americans for the most part are basically economically illiterate. I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he's saying it.

    Key question for tbraton: Did you as an economics major take one single course that exclusively covered labor market analysis??????

    Because kid you are on to something!!!! Read on!!!

    One of interesting things about Bernie Sanders is that he got a degree from the University of Chicago in PolySci in the early sixties.

    It would be hard to imagine that Sanders did not take elective economics courses as well at the time. Why is this vitally important to Sanders’ Open Borders depresses wages arguments????

    In the 1950′s to early 1960′s the most important and widely used introductory textbook at America’s better colleges on economics was the great Nobel Prize winner Paul A Samuelson’s ECONOMICS. In fact it still is. Back then ECONOMICS had chapters in it discussing labor market supply/demand/wage models. Even then Samuelson, a lifelong immigration skeptic, argued that employment based visa programs could be best understood or modeled as a government wage subsidies that benefited employers and perhaps the visa holder but not the taxpayer, domestic worker or the economy in general since it discouraged innovation and capital investment.

    These key Labor Market chapters were removed in the later 1960′s by the publisher of “ECONOMICS” against the wishes of Samuelson at the request of prominent Universities that argued that such material was inappropriate and too “superficial” for the freshman undergrads, the vast majority of which were not economics majors, since their Professors rarely had time to cover the subject matter anyway. Labor market analysis instead would be covered in depth in more advanced required economics courses required of Econ majors and electives for others. Sounds like a plot by the PTB??? Well maybe!!!

    Well guess what, it has been possible for decades to get an undergraduate’s degree in Economics from a top university while never taking a core course that covers labor market issues exclusively. This is a key point made by Neo-Samuelson labor economists like George Borjas. America’s most prominent immigration skeptic economist. Most economics students, at an undergraduate, graduate and yes even doctoral level have no significant training in labor market supply, demand and wage analysis.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    "Key question for tbraton: Did you as an economics major take one single course that exclusively covered labor market analysis??????

    Because kid you are on to something!!!! Read on!!!"

    To answer your question: "no." But I find your reference to Paul Samuelson's text very interesting (especially the later struggles with his publisher that I was not aware of). I have no memory of the specific section of Samuelson's book you cite or any memory of the labor issue even being discussed in any economics class I took, but Samuelson's text was the text used in the introduction to economics class, the first economics class I took in college. (And a very good text it was. Samuelson well deserved the millions he made from it.) In later courses, we spent a lot of time dissecting and analyzing supply and demand curves, so that was firmly embedded in my brain. It was only later, in the 80's and 90's when immigration became a hot topic of debate, that I put my thinking cap on and applied the lessons I learned in college and concluded that largely missing from the ongoing debate was my simple analysis based on supply and demand, that large scale immigration depresses the wages of American workers impacted by the immigrants. That means mostly lower income American workers, although we have seen higher income workers in the technology field, like computer programmers, affected by the onslaught of Indian tech workers who can be hired for less. Ironically, I have been pointing out for many years that the Americans most affected by our unbridled immigration are black workers, who should be the most unspoken opponents. American blacks have been very ill served by their leaders on this issue, in my opinion.

    BTW I earlier referred to the Immigration Act of 1965 as the "worst of the Great Society legislation." I borrowed that language from Theodore H. White, the creator and writer of the various "The Making of the President" books starting with the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon race. He made his observation about the Immigration Act in the last (and, imho, the best) book of the series, "America in Search of Itself" (1982), dealing with Reagan's election in 1980. This is what I posted on The American Conservative back on July 12, 2010:

    First, Tom, this issue was addressed by the late Theodore H. White, the brilliant (summa cum laude graduate of Harvard), very liberal (creator of the Camelot myth in collaboration with Jacqueline Kennedy following JFK’s assassination), ground-breaking reporter (originator of the path-breaking Making of the President series) in his last Making of the President book, “America in Search of Itself” (1982) dealing with the election of Ronald Reagan. (Check out the glowing tribute William Buckley paid to him after his death, which can be found on White’s Wikipedia entry.) He stated on page 363 that:

    “The Immigration Act of 1965 changed all previous patterns, and in so doing, probably changed the future of America. Immigration laws of the previous forty years had rested on the idea of ‘national origins': New immigrants should reflect the ethnic composition of the nation already here. The new act of 1965 was noble, revolutionary—and probably the most thoughtless of the many acts of the Great Society.”

    White went on to analyze and discuss the changing face of America produced by the 1965 Act and clearly disapproved of the change the law was producing just 16 years after passage of the new law, which he characterized as “a stampede, almost an invasion,” even though he was a Jew whose forebears had come from Eastern Europe.
     
    Earlier in the same thread I posted the following re immigration and supply and demand:

    tbraton says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:44 am
    Surprise, surprise! Cutting off illegal immigration would cause wages to rise as employers were forced to compete for a shinking labor pool. I believe there is a simple term for it: the law of supply and demand. One of the basic principles of economics. If you need an historical example that illustrates the profound changes that will result, just look to the 14th century. It is generally acknowledged that the Black Plague, which reduced the population of Europe by 25% (England by 33%), resulted in severe labor shortages which hastened the demise of the feudal system and caused wages of workers to rise dramatically. Eliminating illegal aliens would, in all likelihood, produce the same result. Another Black Plague is socially unacceptable.
     
    BTW I would point out that Paul Samuelson was liberal, Theodore White very liberal and Bernie Sanders a Socialist. The first two exerted great influence through their works in the 50's and 60's and 70's, and the latter obtained his schooling during that period. All have expressed reservations about the economic and social consequences of immigration. So it's not just we conservatives.
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  118. @no name
    If Sanders is so anti-immigration why'd he vote for the Gang of 8 bill?

    Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?

    Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?

    Michelle Obama, top of the ninth.

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    • Replies: @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Michelle Obama, top of the ninth."

    LOL, even in a race against a nothing, omega cypher like Jeb Bush, I suspect Michelle would be hard-pressed to do as well as Dukakis did in 1988. Nominating her would be suicidal.
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  119. @tbraton
    I happened to major in economics in college, and one of the basic concepts of economics is "supply and demand." Supply and demand determine the price of everything; increase demand and the price will rise; increase supply and the price will fall, all other things remaining equal. I have been arguing for years in opposition to massive immigration that opening up our borders depresses the wages of lower income Americans, since they are the ones that generally uneducated and untrained immigrants compete with. I have been stating for years that "it is a simple case of supply and demand." If you increase the supply of anything, its price will fall. Since we are talking about wages, the "price of labor," admitting more immigrants (legal or illegal) will cause wages to fall. Nothing complicated. That's basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done. That's why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor. Americans for the most part are basically economically illiterate. I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he's saying it.

    That’s basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done.

    You can’t say the Aristocracy didn’t try, though. They passed an internal slavery statute. Under the Statute of Labourers (1351), if a peasant was found wandering through England away from his peasant home, he could be detained and forced to work cheap. Wages had gone up 200-300%:

    And now for as much as it is given to the king to understand in the present parliament by the petition of the commons that the servants having no regard to the ordinance but to their ease and singular covetousness, do withdraw themselves from serving great men and others, unless they have livery and wages double or treble of what they were wont to take in the twentieth year and earlier, to the great damage of the great men and impoverishment of all the commonality; whereof the commonality prays [the] underwritten articles.

    Thankfully, like Nixon and Ford’s wage and price controls, it was a failure.

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    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Yes and in response to the Black Death and subsequent rising wages, began the earliest steps in the later industrial revolution in labor intensive sectors like weaving, salt manufacture, coal mining, milling.....

    Rising wage signal the need for capital investment to offset labor.

    Hence the primary reason most of India does not have sewers today even though the very first sanitation and fresh water systems in human history were discovered there, is because it is cheap enough today to pay someone to haul away one's poo manually.
    , @tbraton
    "that the servants having no regard to the ordinance but to their ease and singular covetousness, do withdraw themselves from serving great men and others, unless they have livery and wages double or treble of what they were wont to take in the twentieth year and earlier, to the great damage of the great men "

    It's good to see some things don't change. I think that is still the attitude of the 1%'ers 700 years later.

    "Thankfully, like Nixon and Ford’s wage and price controls, it was a failure."

    Wasn't that first guy supposed to be some kind of Republican? It's interesting to go back and refresh one's memory of that famous move. According to Wikipedia: "The American public felt the government was rescuing them from price gougers and from a foreign-caused exchange crisis.[15][16] Politically, Nixon's actions were a great success. The Dow rose 33 points the next day, its biggest daily gain ever at that point, and the New York Times editorial read, "We unhesitatingly applaud the boldness with which the President has moved." " Imagine that: a Republican President getting the stamp of approval of the NY Times! Nixon's imposition of wage and price controls is uncannily similar to GWB's Iraq War of 2003: initially very popular with the American public and many experts who should have known much better.

    It's also revealing to see who Nixon consulted with before adopting the program: (again Wikipedia) "At the time, the U.S. also had unemployment and inflation rates of 6.1% (Aug 1971)[9] and 5.84% (1971),[10] respectively. To combat these issues, President Nixon consulted Federal Reserve chairman Arthur Burns, incoming Treasury Secretary John Connally, and then Undersecretary for International Monetary Affairs and future Fed Chairman Paul Volcker." The only one on that list that surprises me is Paul Volcker, who I discover later publicly regretted his involvement in that stupid decision. Arthur Burns was the incompetent chairman of the Fed who manipulated the money supply to ensure Nixon's reelection in 1972, only to produce a very severe recession starting in 1974. Connally was a Democrat named by Nixon as Sec. of Treasury who became a Republican only in 1973, a brilliant and articulate politician who had no knowledge or background to be Sec. of Treasury, as finally evidenced by him and his partner Ben Barnes, former Democratic Speaker of the Texas House, losing their shirts in a real estate investment scheme that forced them to file for bankruptcy.
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  120. @Zed, Lord of the Brutals
    Seriously? Look at the generosity of the Free Shit handouts in those places and see if it suddenly makes sense to you.

    You remember the Ebola black guy? He emigrated *out* of his own-color Liberia and into oh-so-racist Minnesota. And guess where he settled? Coon Rapids.

    As Dave Barry used to say, I am not making this up.

    http://www.startribune.com/ebola-kills-coon-rapids-father-working-in-liberia/269150151/

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  121. @Ed
    On Twitter they said Bernie received applause from crowd in attendance when he uttered these words.

    To me, this is the amazing thing. If you ask citizen NAMs what they prefer, they overwhelmingly favor tightened borders. They are the ones preyed upon by mojados. For every high-profile 11 year old white girl who is raped by some Mexican/Guatemalan mojado, there must be ten times that many NAM girls attacked.

    The problem is that the educated and connected Cathedral NAMs with the mouthpieces (Sharpton, Jackson, the Congressional Black Caucus–the list is endless) actually benefit by more poverty and suffering. For every four hispanic or black refugees that crosses the border, America must pay for and elevate one hispanic or black into the middle class. And the Cathedral NAMs are the ones who are “uplifted”.

    It may be the children of rich Nigerians or the sons of Jesse Jackson. The Talented Tenth with the mouthpieces receive the AA benefits. That’s why poor black folks have long called the NAACP the “National Association for the Advancement of ‘Certain’ People”.

    The answer is simple: bypass the Cathedral NAMs and go straight to the NAM voters. This is what Trump and Sanders are doing. And the polls are showing it. As you noted, hispanics cheered Sanders.

    I look forward to Trump and Sanders making more appearances at public NAM gatherings and talking about immigration. The Cathedral, both NAMs and whites, will ignore these events or try to spin them, but they are already weakened since the attack is coming from both the left (Sanders+jobs) and the right (Trump+crime). There is no coherent ideological spin they can put on it.

    Now that the logjam is breaking up due to two white leaders, where are the loyal black and Mexican leaders? Where are today’s Cesar Chavez, Samuel Gompers, Booker T Washington, Barbara Jordan and Frederick Douglass? Where are you, Glenn Loury? Where are you, John McWhorter?

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  122. @JohnnyWalker123
    Bill and Hillary Clinton have made $139,097,232 in income since 2008.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-07-31/hillary-and-bill-clinton-paid-43-million-in-federal-taxes


    Hillary and Bill Clinton paid $43.9 million in federal taxes from 2007 through 2014 on adjusted gross income totaling $139,097,232, according to tax returns released by the former secretary of state's presidential campaign on Friday.

    That put the Clintons near the very, very top of the American economic scale. Their 2012 adjusted gross income of $19.7 million put them in the top 0.01 percent, a level reached by fewer than 14,000 households, and represents a meteoric rise for a couple that once depended on Hillary Clinton's law firm salary. She was the prime family breadwinner when Bill Clinton was making $35,000 a year as governor of Arkansas.
     

    In a statement, Clinton noted the family had given $15 million to charity since 2007.

    I’m not going to do that math on what % of their income that is, but $15 million is nothing to sneeze at.

    The tax returns show $14.8 million of that went to the Clinton Family Foundation.

    Never mind!

    Clinton said the couple has paid $43.9 million in federal taxes since 2007, and that last year they paid an effective rate of 35.7%.

    “Families like mine that reap rewards from our economy have a responsibility to pay our fair share,” she said.

    I get this is just a robotic talking point. Of course I’d like someone to ask if 35.7% isn’t a fair share, what is?? 37? 40? 50??

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  123. @Esso

    That’s why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor.
     
    I was reading about kelp in the wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelp) and I came across this bit of history:

    During the Highland Clearances, many Scottish Highlanders were moved off their crofts, and went to industries such as fishing and kelping (producing soda ash from the ashes of kelp). At least until the 1820s, when there were steep falls in the price of kelp, landlords wanted to create pools of cheap or virtually free labour, supplied by families subsisting in new crofting townships. Kelp collection and processing was a very profitable way of using this labour, and landlords petitioned successfully for legislation designed to stop emigration. But the economic collapse of the kelp industry in northern Scotland led to further emigration, especially to North America.
     
    Seems like a nice dual to the present migration policies in the developed countries. The same motivations, but an increasing vs decreasing supply of labour.

    I googled and learned that the Irish and some skilled trades in England also had restrictions on emigration in early 19th century. Does anyone know more examples of this kind of people-herding in post-Enlightenment history? (Russia had serfs long into the 19th century, of course.)

    Here’s an example from Wikipedia I found a couple of weeks ago in searching for information re Haiti and the Dominican Republic:

    “However, the arrival of Haitians to the rest of the country [referring to the D.R.] began after the United States occupied both Haiti and the Dominican Republic around 1916, when US-owned sugar companies imported, annually, thousands of Haitian workers to cut costs.[17]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitians_in_the_Dominican_Republic

    [Another Wikipedia site makes this point without any sense of irony: "Though migration from Haiti to the Dominican is economically beneficial to both countries, it is one of the leading contributors to tension between the two countries as well; illegal immigration from Haiti resonates high dissonance with the Dominican people. It has led to anti-Haitian feelings and mistrust of the Haitian people. Another problem with Haitian migration into Dominican Republic is that it blurs the line of citizenship. This factor of migration affects not only Dominican economy but its culture as well.[23]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic%E2%80%93Haiti_relations ]

    Based on memory, I also seem to recall reading that in the early days of the revolutionary Model T, Henry Ford gained fame by offering $5 a day to his workers. It was necessary for Ford to offer such a stupendous amount in order to attract workers to his production lines, for only such a large pay incentive could attract American workers from surrounding farms. Those stupid American workers for some reason preferred working in the open air to being confined to an indoor production line, such as the one satirized in 1936 by Chaplin in “Modern Times.” After a number of years, unable to obtain enough American workers or unwilling to increase pay, Ford resorted to importing workers from the Middle East, specifically Lebanon.(I am sketchy in my knowledge about that and don’t know whether he merely advertised jobs in Lebanon or had agents there actively recruiting workers.) That was the beginning of the Arab presence in the Detroit area. [It wasn't just Arabs. In Jeffrey Eugenides' excellent novel "Middlesex" which won the Pulitzer Prize in 2002, one of the characters is a Greek forced to flee Turkey in the early 20's who winds up in Detroit and goes to work for Ford. He portrays the horror of working on an auto production line in the 20's. But the character came here voluntarily and wasn't recruited by Ford. The immigration laws were severely tightened in the early 20's and remained so until the worst of the Great Society legislation, the Immigration Act of 1965.]

    Not responsive to your point about “people herding,” but illustrative of my original point about “supply and demand” in the area of employment, which your “kelp” example also makes.

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  124. @Dave Pinsen
    I do wonder what's going on inside Bernie's head. He doesn't seem dumb or dishonest, so it's possible that he's coming to a late-in-life realization about some things. He considers himself a democratic socialist, but he seems to grok that what makes it work in Northern Europe is the predominantly Northern European demos. I don't recall him praising Latin American examples of socialism, for example.

    So, a question I have is whether he will train his guns on Hillary. Does he have an aversion to that? As long as he can convince himself that the "right wing Koch brothers" and the Republicans are worse, he might hold his fire. But what if Trump keeps rising in the polls, making similar points on immigration? Bernie might be forced to realize that Hillary is further from him ideologically and politically than Trump.

    According to an article at Counterpunch, Bernie has already announced that he is going to throw his support to Hillary.

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  125. Boas, Lewontin.

    For that matter, I tend to assume that White liberals who move to Vermont are quite comfortable with the state’s demographics.

    Maybe not the world’s safest assumption. Pioneers didn’t colonize America because they wanted to keep it pristine and full of savages. Jews didn’t move to Palestine because they liked Palestinians.

    That, and the whole rural-roughing-it thing doesn’t appeal to vibrant types. I think Steve’s commented on how wilderness is a white thing.

    Go to outdoorgearlab.com and browse the reviews. Lots of pictures of wilderness types. Presumably a lot of progs (though they’ve pivoted toward hunters in recent years). I don’t think I’ve seen a “POC” yet. Oh, wait, there’s a guy from the Philippines who looks like he’s from Pakistan.

    Note the wording: “contribution”. It is not necessarily positive.

    That’s completely wrong. I’d explain, but I have to go to the bathroom and make my morning contribution.

    Any argument can and will be called racist; you can’t be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants.

    This is an excellent point. You can never go wrong in America by loudly and proudly taking blacks’ side over anyone/everyone else. Might as well use that strategically.

    Maybe Jim Webb?

    That was my first thought.

    Why are they you’re friends then?

    Because life’s more complicated than that?

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  126. @e
    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration…and these are just words.

    He won’t ACTUALLY do anything. There’s no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)



    Ain't it the truth.

    Bernie doesn’t have to “do something” in office to “do something” right now. By messing up the easy rhetoric of “anti-immigration=evil white racist Republican”, he helps confound the Cathedral.

    The Cathedral is desperate to get both Bernie and Trump to moderate to a more central Cathedral position.

    The longer they both hold out, the better for all of us. The Cathedral’s immediate goal, I expect, is to get them both to agree to an “amnesty-now-enforcement-later” position as soon as possible (like, yesterday). This position, however, will make them no different from all the other bought-and-paid-for candidates.

    Who knows? The longer they both keep gathering votes, the more pressure will be applied to the other candidates, and the other candidates may start to grow a spine as well. People will start “noticing” and talking to each other. Every day of public “noticing” is dangerous for the Cathedral.

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  127. @Robbie
    I don't trust Bernie Sanders.

    It's all too convenient...the first black president, the first Jewish president....

    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration...and these are just words.

    He won't ACTUALLY do anything. There's no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)

    My view of iSteve commentators is some Tinder whore getting plowed lol in her trashy one room studio NYC apartment LOL HAHAHAHA

    "But he said he loved me!" LOL!

    Now that he and his followers are being attacked by them, he and they may be willing to pivot on this issue, but yeah, he basically said that America should have amnesty number 8 in that piece.

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  128. @yaph
    african-americans don't like high elevations or rough terrain that much

    Once again Steve’s peanut gallery makes themselves look ridiculous.

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  129. @Big Bill

    That’s basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done.
     
    You can't say the Aristocracy didn't try, though. They passed an internal slavery statute. Under the Statute of Labourers (1351), if a peasant was found wandering through England away from his peasant home, he could be detained and forced to work cheap. Wages had gone up 200-300%:

    And now for as much as it is given to the king to understand in the present parliament by the petition of the commons that the servants having no regard to the ordinance but to their ease and singular covetousness, do withdraw themselves from serving great men and others, unless they have livery and wages double or treble of what they were wont to take in the twentieth year and earlier, to the great damage of the great men and impoverishment of all the commonality; whereof the commonality prays [the] underwritten articles.
     
    Thankfully, like Nixon and Ford's wage and price controls, it was a failure.

    Yes and in response to the Black Death and subsequent rising wages, began the earliest steps in the later industrial revolution in labor intensive sectors like weaving, salt manufacture, coal mining, milling…..

    Rising wage signal the need for capital investment to offset labor.

    Hence the primary reason most of India does not have sewers today even though the very first sanitation and fresh water systems in human history were discovered there, is because it is cheap enough today to pay someone to haul away one’s poo manually.

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  130. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:
    @Ed
    On Twitter they said Bernie received applause from crowd in attendance when he uttered these words.

    I’m wondering if a lot of that applause came from middle-class parents whose teens are unemployed and perhaps, just maybe, they are seeing that rampant immigration (in-migration) affects their own kids’ chances at making money? Vermont esp. is the sort of place where white teens still work.

    About Bernie, he’s kind of a fossil – a NY Jewish radical of the Wellstone stripe who went to Vermont and got freeze dried in a congenial environment. He might not even realize that the stuff he says can be denounced as racist. But he says them and I applaud him for it.

    And Steve’s observation, that the mainstream candidates are being isolated in a left-right Sanders-Trump pincers movement, is brilliant.

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  131. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:
    @SFG
    I don't know about 'of course', but I assume Harry Baldwin knows his friends. So that particular pair sees it as a problem.

    The way I read it, Mr. Baldwin “of course” is meant to apply to all Jews. It doesn’t apply to my Jewish friends most of whom are more or less Gomperian on the subject. The rest I trust can be shamed into supporting immigration restriction if it is sufficiently demonstrated that the majority culture has changed.

    I welcome correction.

    Since ‘syon’ isn’t cutting and pasting today, I will:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/unions/what-samuel-gompers-had-say-about-illega.html

    “America must not be overwhelmed. Every effort to enact immigration legislation must expect to meet a number of hostile forces and, in particular, two hostile forces of considerable strength.

    “One of these is composed of corporation employers who desire to employ physical strength (broad backs) at the lowest possible wage and who prefer a rapidly revolving labor supply at low wages to a regular supply of American wage earners at fair wages.

    “The other is composed of racial groups in the United States who oppose all restrictive legislation because they want the doors left open for an influx of their countrymen regardless of the menace to the people of their adopted country.’

    Say it again Sam!

    Speak the truth!

    More from Conservapedia but I won’t syonize you: read it yourselves.

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Samuel_Gompers

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    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    The way I read it, Mr. Baldwin “of course” is meant to apply to all Jews.

    Not "all" Jews--that would be silly. There are prominent al-right Jews. I meant it like I might say, "Our black friends voted for Obama, of course." It is exceptional to encounter Jews who are not in favor of diversity.
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  132. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:

    Everyone oughta google “Bernie Sanders” and immigration and see what pops up. A lot of stunned, frightened people who don’t have the mental vocabulary to understand where Sanders is coming from. He’s stealing GOP talking points (I wish!), he’s a racist, he’s mistaken, he doesn’t get it….

    Nope. They don’t understand that a nice Jewish leftist like Bernie can oppose open borders for totally rational, class loyalty reasons. He’s got an emotional loyalty to the working class. Imagine that.

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  133. @Jefferson
    "Any argument can and will be called racist; you can’t be afraid of the accusation, but you have to be smart in countering it. What Ann Coulter and Donald Trump have done, in different ways, is acknowledge African Americans as the original American minority, and draw a line of demarcation between them and immigrants. Coulter doesn’t claim America was a white country pre-1965, but a biracial one, and in her recent townhall with Jorge Ramos at Fusion, she cut off one aggrieved Latino’s complaint by saying, “you’re not black”.

    Trump, for his part, brought a black man on stage whose son had been murdered by an illegal alien."

    Hollywood still acts like it's pre-1965 Immigration Act America in their television and film casting choices where you see very few Amerindians/Mestizos and Asians. Nonwhite castings in Hollywood for television shows and films are overwhelmingly Black.

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619 when the first African slaves were brought to America or at least 1808 when importation of slaves was barred, which is a lot longer than most whites in this country can claim. They may not have come over in the Mayflower, but they did come over soon thereafter in less luxurious accommodations. (Actually, since the Mayflower arrived in 1620, some blacks can trace their roots back even before then.) Not excusing the execrable behavior of too many blacks today, which truly merits criticism, but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619 when the first African slaves were brought to America or at least 1808 when importation of slaves was barred, which is a lot longer than most whites in this country can claim.
     
    Not true. Most Whites have roots going back before 1808.
    , @Rifleman

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619
     
    No they can't. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

    but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.
     
    No they don't.

    And where do American Indians fit into your imagination?
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  134. @JohnnyWalker123
    Immigration increases the size of the economy, but it also redistributes wealth from the working class to the rentier/capitalist class. The pie gets larger, but workers get smaller slices while over class elites get much larger slices.

    Immigration is good for the wealthy and the political class. Not good for ordinary workers.

    Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.

    “Hence why Bernie Sanders is skeptical of open borders.”

    But there is a third way to handle this problem: simply raise taxes to cover the living expenses of everyone displaced by immigration.

    This is why Bernie Sanders cannot be trusted. If capitalism benefits the capitalists, then socialism benefits the bureaucrat. Sanders is a bureaucrat who wants a calibrated immigration program that maintains the dominance of left-wing bureaucrats like himself while maintaining enough of a White/asian population to keep the lights on for people like Bernie Sanders.

    Sanders has been an anti-White left-wing activist for way too long of his life to regard any of his anti-immigrant positions to be anything but facially beneficial.

    Sanders really does not want to end immigration. He just wants Wall Street to pay for it. A Sanders’ presidency will amount to nothing but grandstanding against Wall Street interest, with no drop in immigration and probably no increase on Wall Street taxes to pay for anything. it will be nothing more than an opportunity for theater.

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  135. @Clyde
    Thanks Bernie!! For de-glorifying illegal immigration! :) Thus helping The Donald.
    Another reason Bernie did this is to extend himself being the anti-Hillary. I have always said that lots of libs and democrats are anti-open borders. That they just need a good push. So Bernie can steal these primary votes from execrable Hillary. Who has no executive experience but plenty of execrable experience.
    Being from ultra white Vermont, Bernie is more in tune with the aspirations of poor and middle class whites than many of the hacks in DC. He is a real socialist who empathizes with them unlike 90% of Senators and Representatives who despise them and despise groveling for their votes come election time.
    Only bugaboo is that I don't agree with Bernie's socialist solutions.

    Bernie Sanders does not empathize with anyone but Bernie Sanders.

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  136. @Big Bill

    That’s basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done.
     
    You can't say the Aristocracy didn't try, though. They passed an internal slavery statute. Under the Statute of Labourers (1351), if a peasant was found wandering through England away from his peasant home, he could be detained and forced to work cheap. Wages had gone up 200-300%:

    And now for as much as it is given to the king to understand in the present parliament by the petition of the commons that the servants having no regard to the ordinance but to their ease and singular covetousness, do withdraw themselves from serving great men and others, unless they have livery and wages double or treble of what they were wont to take in the twentieth year and earlier, to the great damage of the great men and impoverishment of all the commonality; whereof the commonality prays [the] underwritten articles.
     
    Thankfully, like Nixon and Ford's wage and price controls, it was a failure.

    “that the servants having no regard to the ordinance but to their ease and singular covetousness, do withdraw themselves from serving great men and others, unless they have livery and wages double or treble of what they were wont to take in the twentieth year and earlier, to the great damage of the great men

    It’s good to see some things don’t change. I think that is still the attitude of the 1%’ers 700 years later.

    “Thankfully, like Nixon and Ford’s wage and price controls, it was a failure.”

    Wasn’t that first guy supposed to be some kind of Republican? It’s interesting to go back and refresh one’s memory of that famous move. According to Wikipedia: “The American public felt the government was rescuing them from price gougers and from a foreign-caused exchange crisis.[15][16] Politically, Nixon’s actions were a great success. The Dow rose 33 points the next day, its biggest daily gain ever at that point, and the New York Times editorial read, “We unhesitatingly applaud the boldness with which the President has moved.” ” Imagine that: a Republican President getting the stamp of approval of the NY Times! Nixon’s imposition of wage and price controls is uncannily similar to GWB’s Iraq War of 2003: initially very popular with the American public and many experts who should have known much better.

    It’s also revealing to see who Nixon consulted with before adopting the program: (again Wikipedia) “At the time, the U.S. also had unemployment and inflation rates of 6.1% (Aug 1971)[9] and 5.84% (1971),[10] respectively. To combat these issues, President Nixon consulted Federal Reserve chairman Arthur Burns, incoming Treasury Secretary John Connally, and then Undersecretary for International Monetary Affairs and future Fed Chairman Paul Volcker.” The only one on that list that surprises me is Paul Volcker, who I discover later publicly regretted his involvement in that stupid decision. Arthur Burns was the incompetent chairman of the Fed who manipulated the money supply to ensure Nixon’s reelection in 1972, only to produce a very severe recession starting in 1974. Connally was a Democrat named by Nixon as Sec. of Treasury who became a Republican only in 1973, a brilliant and articulate politician who had no knowledge or background to be Sec. of Treasury, as finally evidenced by him and his partner Ben Barnes, former Democratic Speaker of the Texas House, losing their shirts in a real estate investment scheme that forced them to file for bankruptcy.

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  137. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:

    Deep State Alert:

    The New York GD Times is reporting on illegal alien crime….is this a first? Or is it because the murderer had the temerity to off Native Americans?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/montana-couple-killed-after-helping-stranded-motorist.html?_r=0

    Either way, I think this is a significant development. Condolences to the murdered couple’s family.

    PS – If you see someone who looks like the sleazebag alleged murderer, do a Derb and drive on by. The life you save may be your own. Maybe they thought he was another Crow, who knows.

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    • Replies: @JSM
    he New York GD Times is reporting on illegal alien crime

    Huh? Did I read the same article you did? There is not one single reference in the article you linked to referencing "illegal aliens" or "immigr" or even Mexican. The puke is referred to only as "of Wyoming" and a "non- American Indian."

    All of the crucial details: that he'd entered our country illegally from Mexico, that the B.O. adminstration had given him a permanent residency anyway, that he had been charged with burglary shortly before the shooting (this after being legalized, ICE saying he couldn't be deported because he's now legal and had only been charged with burglary, not yet *convicted), and that he is an 18 y.o. thug, giving lie to the bromide that the poor widdle minors shouldn't be deported, of all these crucial details the New York Slimes made no mention though they are now widely available.
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  138. Bernie just flipped flopped of this in a recent interview that will air soon.

    //Legalizing pot section :
    JR: If you become president would you legalize the use of marijuana?
    BS: That’s something that we’re looking at right now.
    JR: And without Congress?
    BS: In my state… Well no, you can’t do that. There are things that you can do, and obviously we have states in this country like Colorado which have gone forward. And the idea is there are impediments to what Colorado has done because they can’t use the money they get, put it in the banking system and so forth and so on. This is an issue that we will be speaking out on again. But I’ll tell you this; this is what I will tell you. I am deeply concerned about the impact of the so-called war on drugs. I am very concerned about the number of young people who end up in jail for non-violent crimes. This is an issue that we have to deal with.
    JR: Would you mind if I ask you if you smoked marijuana?
    BS: I have, a couple of times when I was a kid, didn’t do me much good. I ended up coughing a lot. But that–
    JR: Is that a relevant issue?
    BS: I don’t think so. I think that there’s significant numbers of people in this country that smoke marijuana.
    //Borders section :
    JR: You were recently asked about open borders. And you said it was a right-wing idea, that it would make everybody poor in America. But one article said that you sounded like Donald Trump.
    BS: That’s, you know, this is…
    JR: But that suggestion that, immigrants would take jobs from Americans.
    BS: No, no, no. We have to be very careful about this one.
    JR: Yes, we have to.
    BS: My father was an immigrant. I believe absolutely in a comprehensive immigration reform. I think we have to bring 11 million undocumented people out of the shadows. But do I believe, does any member of Congress believe, does any Presidential candidate believe, that you simply open the borders, and you have millions of people who are unskilled coming into this country. Does anybody believe that?
    JR: No candidate wants open borders, but the suggestion that immigrants will lower wages and take away American jobs is wrong. You know it’s wrong.
    BS: Yes, I know. But that was the question that I was responding to. Some journalist– what about open borders? This is not a good thing. The answer is no. Open borders is not a good thing.
    JR: How about immigrants, do immigrants lower wages? Are immigrants creating a bad impact on American borders?
    BS: No, what we have right now – here’s the concern that I have: for example, in terms of undocumented workers… I went to Immokalee, Florida; you know what takes place in Immokalee, Florida? That’s where the tomato workers are. I stood with the undocumented tomato workers, held a hearing in Washington D.C. to demand decent wages and decent working conditions. And we had some success. We’ve made some improvements. If we did not have undocumented workers today in America, do you know what would happen? Probably a large part of the agriculture sector of America would collapse and other parts of the economy would collapse. The job right now, what our function is, is to provide legal status for undocumented workers as quickly as we can and move toward a path toward citizenship. That is what we have to do. On the other hand, when you have 36 percent of Hispanic high school graduates who are unemployed, 51 percent of African-American kids who are unemployed, do I think it’s a good idea to open the border and bring in unskilled workers? No, I don’t.
    JR: As a Democratic socialist would you support the idea of an immigration agreement between the U.S., Canada and Mexico similar to the one the Europeans have, with no visas, with the European community?
    BS: That is something I would have to look at. I can’t give you an answer right now.
    JR: So you would consider the possibility of…
    BS: I would consider anything. But this is what I will consider and what I will tell you. That one of the reasons we have seen many people from the South come over the border is because of NAFTA. NAFTA, which I voted against by the way, was terrible in terms of what it did to small farms in Mexico, driving people off of the farms into the cities and eventually into America. But the whole issue of immigration, how we effectively deal with it, how many immigrants we should have coming into this country. Again, my dad was an immigrant. I believe in immigration. Immigration makes America stronger. This is an issue that needs to be thoroughly discussed.
    JR: So you would consider the possibility of the free flowing of workers between Canada, U.S. and Mexico?
    BS: I will look at all ideas with regard to immigration. It depends on the state of the economy. I don’t want to make any specific commitments now.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Source please? Who is "JR"?
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  139. Sanders might be hurting Trump by fusing left and right issues.

    A lot of Americans are anti-rich.

    Trump is pro-rich and anti-immigration.

    Sanders is anti-rich and anti-immigration. That might strike a chord with more Americans.

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  140. @Glossy
    That's what makes Somalians' immigration choices so puzzling. Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. It's not like there aren't any warm places in the First World. Nigerians are concentrated in Houston, for example. And it doesn't look like a random fluke that snowballed (heh) somehow. If it was just Sweden, I'd be OK with the fluke explanation. But from what I understand Somalians' top three First World destinations are actually Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. Something might be going on.

    I’m not sure I recall how this happened, but I thought the gov’t just plunked those Somali refugees in Maine and Minnesota. And Sweden is actively importing unassimilable immigrants, so the opportunity is there, take it or leave it.

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    • Replies: @AnAnon
    They were put in Atlanta originally, and then chose northern states for their generous welfare regimes and small numbers of american blacks. As for nigerians and houston, again that was governor perry's project to transform Texas, not an organic development.
    , @tbraton
    "And Sweden is actively importing unassimilable immigrants, so the opportunity is there, take it or leave it."

    I have had a friend for the past 25 years who is a Swedish-American who came to the U.S. when she was 21 many years ago. She periodically goes back to visit her sister. Just to tease her I occasionally will send her an article concerning some misbehaving Somali in Sweden. She is appalled by the indigestible influx of Africans and Arabs that Sweden has permitted to come to Sweden. I recently read an article which pinpointed the change to a law passed in Sweden in the early 70's by supposedly progressive politicians trying to do "the right thing." Do these idiots ever stop and consider the consequences of their actions?
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  141. @Robbie
    Why are they you're friends then?

    I still like them. Politics aren’t everything, and the politics of any ordinary individual don’t have any impact on the grand scheme of things.

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  142. @Harry Baldwin
    I'm not sure I recall how this happened, but I thought the gov't just plunked those Somali refugees in Maine and Minnesota. And Sweden is actively importing unassimilable immigrants, so the opportunity is there, take it or leave it.

    They were put in Atlanta originally, and then chose northern states for their generous welfare regimes and small numbers of american blacks. As for nigerians and houston, again that was governor perry’s project to transform Texas, not an organic development.

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  143. @The Z Blog
    I've lived all over, but I spent a lot of my life in New England so I return often to visit friends. The first thing I notice is the whiteness. Even eastern Mass is startlingly white compared to just about anywhere south of Pennsylvania.

    Years back, Boston friends came to visit me in the ghetto. We went out for dinner and midway through dinner one of my friends leaned over and whispered, "there are more black people in here than live in my whole town."

    Yeah, it was quite a shock for this suburban Boston white boy when he went down to DC to visit a friend at Georgetown U back in the late 70s. We went to a McDonald’s in the city proper, and it was like the Delta House guys walking into the Dexter Lake Club to see Otis Day and the Knights.

    “We are gonna die!”

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  144. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Key question for tbraton: Did you as an economics major take one single course that exclusively covered labor market analysis??????

    Because kid you are on to something!!!! Read on!!!

    One of interesting things about Bernie Sanders is that he got a degree from the University of Chicago in PolySci in the early sixties.

    It would be hard to imagine that Sanders did not take elective economics courses as well at the time. Why is this vitally important to Sanders' Open Borders depresses wages arguments????

    In the 1950's to early 1960's the most important and widely used introductory textbook at America's better colleges on economics was the great Nobel Prize winner Paul A Samuelson's ECONOMICS. In fact it still is. Back then ECONOMICS had chapters in it discussing labor market supply/demand/wage models. Even then Samuelson, a lifelong immigration skeptic, argued that employment based visa programs could be best understood or modeled as a government wage subsidies that benefited employers and perhaps the visa holder but not the taxpayer, domestic worker or the economy in general since it discouraged innovation and capital investment.

    These key Labor Market chapters were removed in the later 1960's by the publisher of "ECONOMICS" against the wishes of Samuelson at the request of prominent Universities that argued that such material was inappropriate and too "superficial" for the freshman undergrads, the vast majority of which were not economics majors, since their Professors rarely had time to cover the subject matter anyway. Labor market analysis instead would be covered in depth in more advanced required economics courses required of Econ majors and electives for others. Sounds like a plot by the PTB??? Well maybe!!!

    Well guess what, it has been possible for decades to get an undergraduate's degree in Economics from a top university while never taking a core course that covers labor market issues exclusively. This is a key point made by Neo-Samuelson labor economists like George Borjas. America's most prominent immigration skeptic economist. Most economics students, at an undergraduate, graduate and yes even doctoral level have no significant training in labor market supply, demand and wage analysis.

    “Key question for tbraton: Did you as an economics major take one single course that exclusively covered labor market analysis??????

    Because kid you are on to something!!!! Read on!!!”

    To answer your question: “no.” But I find your reference to Paul Samuelson’s text very interesting (especially the later struggles with his publisher that I was not aware of). I have no memory of the specific section of Samuelson’s book you cite or any memory of the labor issue even being discussed in any economics class I took, but Samuelson’s text was the text used in the introduction to economics class, the first economics class I took in college. (And a very good text it was. Samuelson well deserved the millions he made from it.) In later courses, we spent a lot of time dissecting and analyzing supply and demand curves, so that was firmly embedded in my brain. It was only later, in the 80′s and 90′s when immigration became a hot topic of debate, that I put my thinking cap on and applied the lessons I learned in college and concluded that largely missing from the ongoing debate was my simple analysis based on supply and demand, that large scale immigration depresses the wages of American workers impacted by the immigrants. That means mostly lower income American workers, although we have seen higher income workers in the technology field, like computer programmers, affected by the onslaught of Indian tech workers who can be hired for less. Ironically, I have been pointing out for many years that the Americans most affected by our unbridled immigration are black workers, who should be the most unspoken opponents. American blacks have been very ill served by their leaders on this issue, in my opinion.

    BTW I earlier referred to the Immigration Act of 1965 as the “worst of the Great Society legislation.” I borrowed that language from Theodore H. White, the creator and writer of the various “The Making of the President” books starting with the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon race. He made his observation about the Immigration Act in the last (and, imho, the best) book of the series, “America in Search of Itself” (1982), dealing with Reagan’s election in 1980. This is what I posted on The American Conservative back on July 12, 2010:

    First, Tom, this issue was addressed by the late Theodore H. White, the brilliant (summa cum laude graduate of Harvard), very liberal (creator of the Camelot myth in collaboration with Jacqueline Kennedy following JFK’s assassination), ground-breaking reporter (originator of the path-breaking Making of the President series) in his last Making of the President book, “America in Search of Itself” (1982) dealing with the election of Ronald Reagan. (Check out the glowing tribute William Buckley paid to him after his death, which can be found on White’s Wikipedia entry.) He stated on page 363 that:

    “The Immigration Act of 1965 changed all previous patterns, and in so doing, probably changed the future of America. Immigration laws of the previous forty years had rested on the idea of ‘national origins’: New immigrants should reflect the ethnic composition of the nation already here. The new act of 1965 was noble, revolutionary—and probably the most thoughtless of the many acts of the Great Society.”

    White went on to analyze and discuss the changing face of America produced by the 1965 Act and clearly disapproved of the change the law was producing just 16 years after passage of the new law, which he characterized as “a stampede, almost an invasion,” even though he was a Jew whose forebears had come from Eastern Europe.

    Earlier in the same thread I posted the following re immigration and supply and demand:

    tbraton says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:44 am
    Surprise, surprise! Cutting off illegal immigration would cause wages to rise as employers were forced to compete for a shinking labor pool. I believe there is a simple term for it: the law of supply and demand. One of the basic principles of economics. If you need an historical example that illustrates the profound changes that will result, just look to the 14th century. It is generally acknowledged that the Black Plague, which reduced the population of Europe by 25% (England by 33%), resulted in severe labor shortages which hastened the demise of the feudal system and caused wages of workers to rise dramatically. Eliminating illegal aliens would, in all likelihood, produce the same result. Another Black Plague is socially unacceptable.

    BTW I would point out that Paul Samuelson was liberal, Theodore White very liberal and Bernie Sanders a Socialist. The first two exerted great influence through their works in the 50′s and 60′s and 70′s, and the latter obtained his schooling during that period. All have expressed reservations about the economic and social consequences of immigration. So it’s not just we conservatives.

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  145. @anonymous-antimarxist
    I just about wet my pants laughing at the idea of Blacks voting in just the high single digits for Bernie simply because of his desperate temporary attention seeking immigration stance.

    Look Blacks have been conditioned by the PTB/TWMNBN not to vote for another immigration restrictionist like the eloquent late Barbara Jordan. Who did TWMNBN, namely Soros, spend a small fortune on to be the then deceased Jordan's eventual congressional replacement??? None other than Shelia Jackson Lee, the most insane Open Borders shill in the Congressional Black Caucus.

    Name one Black elected official at any level who is not an Open Borders loon!!!

    Ever listen to the internet broadcasts of the black anti-Open Borders advocate, the late great Terry Anderson straight out of Compton??? Anderson railed against the idea that Black politician have sold AAs on the idea that once Whites are in the minority they will be in charge. Anderson was one of the few blacks to ask what happens when Blacks are a minority in their own traditional neighborhoods and political districts.

    Today 95%+ of Blacks believe that Obama is the first major indication that that great Rainbow Coalition, "PoC" plan is coming true in spite of polls that show the majority of blacks are opposed to more immigration.

    Blacks for the largest part are still pro Open Borders because TWMNBN have for now bought off potential Hispanic rival politicians and convinced them to either not run or concede, in cases of clear voter fraud, to the existing Black politicians. It gives Blacks the illusion they will remain in relative power in the future.

    Case in point look at what has been happening in Charlie Rangel's congressional district the last couple of election cycles. Already in I think in at least a quarter of the current Black congressional seats, the districts have a greater number of Hispanics(legal and illegal) than Blacks.


    Now there is perhaps a way to get Blacks to come out and vote in opposition to Open Borders. This tactic would be very tricky to pull off however. It would require doing something like what the Alt-Right has done to Conservatism Inc with the Cuckservative meme to corrupt Black politicians like Shelia Jackson Lee who openly advocate replacing their Black constituency with Hispanics.

    But pulling off a "BlackCuck" or just "Bluck" or maybe "MotherBlucker" meme will be much tougher because there are no Black Trumps, a Black politician ready to come out swinging against Open Borders, that Blacks, once shocked with the "Red Pill", might flock to.

    “Case in point look at what has been happening in Charlie Rangel’s congressional district the last couple of election cycles. Already in I think in at least a quarter of the current Black congressional seats, the districts have a greater number of Hispanics(legal and illegal) than Blacks.”

    Charlie Rangel is half Hispanic, so it makes perfect sense why he is pro-open borders.

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  146. @Paul Mendez

    Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?
     
    Michelle Obama, top of the ninth.

    “Michelle Obama, top of the ninth.”

    LOL, even in a race against a nothing, omega cypher like Jeb Bush, I suspect Michelle would be hard-pressed to do as well as Dukakis did in 1988. Nominating her would be suicidal.

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  147. @Anon
    Being anti-immigrant is Sander's way of attempting to triangulate his way into the good graces of black voters. Black elites and black ideology have a powerful grip on the Dem leadership, and Sanders knows that more Mexicans means fewer jobs for blacks, but something even more important. More Mexicans pouring into big US cities means more blacks are going to be driven out of their neighborhoods by Mexican gangs via 'ethnic cleansing', and blacks know it. Being anti-immigrant is one of the few ways Bernie can pocket the support of the black Dems.

    “Being anti-immigrant is Sander’s way of attempting to triangulate his way into the good graces of black voters. Black elites and black ideology have a powerful grip on the Dem leadership, and Sanders knows that more Mexicans means fewer jobs for blacks, but something even more important. More Mexicans pouring into big US cities means more blacks are going to be driven out of their neighborhoods by Mexican gangs via ‘ethnic cleansing’, and blacks know it. Being anti-immigrant is one of the few ways Bernie can pocket the support of the black Dems.”

    More Mexicans pouring into the urban city centers will drive more ghetto underclass Blacks to the suburbs and that is a bad thing. Mexicans drove a lot of ghetto Blacks out of the city limits of Los Angeles and into Los Angeles suburbs like Lancaster and Palmdale who have seen a significant increase in their Black populations. These two suburbs now have a higher percentage of Blacks than the actual city of Los Angeles.

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  148. @Steve Sailer
    "Also, do the Democrats really not have a minority presidential candidate waiting in the wings?"

    Hillary is a woman and women are minorities.

    There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?"

    China is one of the few countries in the world where women can legit claim to be a demographic Minority as they are outnumbered by men. As a White woman Hillary is not a Minority in America, but in China she would be a Minority two times over for being a woman and for being White.
    , @Steve Sailer
    "There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?"

    They just are.

    Or if you demand logic,

    Women are Good.
    Minorities are Good.
    Therefore, Women are Minorities.
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  149. @Hersh
    I like to watch Cspan's morning call in. The other day, Democratic Senator Udall was on. Man calls in from Texas and says he used to work in the concrete industry but now there are no jobs because companies bring in Mexicans illegally and they take all the work.

    Udall, of course, says, "And thats why I'm for comprehensive immigration reform." He knows darned well that the comprehensive bill would not help that guy in Texas and wasn't intended to . It would legalize the 11, 22, 33 or whatever million already here and incentivize that many more.

    There was a Trump moment in there, the common sense revelation that the Mexicans are being brought in by employers, they are not braving the desert all on their lonesomes.

    Interesting thing about Trump is what he's saying about how political donations are actually transactional. "Everyone who gave money to Jeb and Hillary has something lined up." Theres a deal. Its not that the donors are interested in government policy like supporting Israel. Thats a given. On top of that is the deal, where they are going to get back more than they gave. And they don't need a notarized agreement to feel confident that a politician who will keep on needing money isn't going to stiff them.

    Cemex, the gigantic Mexican cement company, has acquired a large portion of the US cement industry. Some businesses, such as capital intensive industrial ones, are more ripe for consolidation than others, and cement was on of those.

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  150. @Harry Baldwin
    I'm not sure I recall how this happened, but I thought the gov't just plunked those Somali refugees in Maine and Minnesota. And Sweden is actively importing unassimilable immigrants, so the opportunity is there, take it or leave it.

    “And Sweden is actively importing unassimilable immigrants, so the opportunity is there, take it or leave it.”

    I have had a friend for the past 25 years who is a Swedish-American who came to the U.S. when she was 21 many years ago. She periodically goes back to visit her sister. Just to tease her I occasionally will send her an article concerning some misbehaving Somali in Sweden. She is appalled by the indigestible influx of Africans and Arabs that Sweden has permitted to come to Sweden. I recently read an article which pinpointed the change to a law passed in Sweden in the early 70′s by supposedly progressive politicians trying to do “the right thing.” Do these idiots ever stop and consider the consequences of their actions?

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  151. @Brutusale
    There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they're considered a minority?

    “There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?”

    China is one of the few countries in the world where women can legit claim to be a demographic Minority as they are outnumbered by men. As a White woman Hillary is not a Minority in America, but in China she would be a Minority two times over for being a woman and for being White.

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  152. @Glossy
    That's what makes Somalians' immigration choices so puzzling. Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. It's not like there aren't any warm places in the First World. Nigerians are concentrated in Houston, for example. And it doesn't look like a random fluke that snowballed (heh) somehow. If it was just Sweden, I'd be OK with the fluke explanation. But from what I understand Somalians' top three First World destinations are actually Sweden, Minnesota and Maine. Something might be going on.

    Sweden, Minnesota, and Maine are terminally afflicted with Nice White Lady Syndrome. In the case of Sweden and Minnesota it’s the most malignant kind: Nice White Nordic Lutheran Lady Syndrome. Maine, for its part, might have some kind of self-righteous New England Puritan thing going on.

    Having said that, I suspect that in the case of refugee resettlement there’s also a deliberate effort to find the whitest places and colonize them with vibrancy. It’s an obnoxious, tactically-driven expression of “electing a new people,” the way Scottish Protestants were “planted” in Ireland in order to counter Irish Catholic identity.

    Anthony Daniels wrote that the purpose of propaganda in the old communist bloc was not to deceive people but to humiliate them by shamelessly shoving outright lies in their face. I think the purpose behind imposing diversity in lily-white places is less to make people comfortable with diversity than to show them that they are no longer masters in their own home.

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  153. Bernie doesn’t have to “do something” in office to “do something” right now. By messing up the easy rhetoric of “anti-immigration=evil white racist Republican”, he helps confound the Synagogue.

    Caught a bit of Rush today, presumably a roundup from the previous week. He had a sound bite from some leftist stooge (i.e., “journalist” or “pundit”) wringing his hands about the emboldening effect Trump has had on the GOP. It’s a case study on how little it takes to encourage the others. One person speaks up, and suddenly the truth is spreading like wildfire. TPTB get a lot of mileage out of the fear the sheep have of being the first to stick one’s head out and get picked off. Hence the proverb, “kill one man, terrorize a thousand.” And Zhabotinsky’s assertion that “the best service our Russian friends give to us is never to speak aloud about us.”

    Once again Steve’s peanut gallery makes themselves look ridiculous.

    Yes, the iSteve commentariat really stands out against the sober, methodical, fact-oriented backdrop of the United States. Your perspicacity is commendable.

    Not excusing the execrable behavior of too many blacks today, which truly merits criticism, but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.

    A lot of mules and horses can make the same claim.

    PS – If you see someone who looks like the sleazebag alleged murderer, do a Derb and drive on by. The life you save may be your own. Maybe they thought he was another Crow, who knows.

    God, what a story. He says he murdered them because their daughter laughed at him and he got tired of waiting around, whatever that means.

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    • Replies: @JSM
    Hi, Svig,
    As many iSteve commenters may know, I live in Wyoming. I'm getting a bit more of the story. What happened is, the Crow Indian mom of the family, Tana, was the one who initially saw Jesus Mendoza. When she passed him on the road, she thought he was just an innocent kid whose car broke down. So she went home and got her husband and daughter and came back to the illegal-made-legal puke to help. So the dad was driving when they came back to Mendoza.

    When arrested, Mendoza told cops he "got tired of waiting," meaning he figured Tana wasn't toot-sweet enough about returning with her family in the family's car.

    You can get local stuff that New York Slimes hides by going to billingsgazette.com and the Casper Star-Tribune at trib.com
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  154. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    "Not unrelated to this – VT has the cleanest public restrooms (even in off-highway gas stations) of any state probably."

    You could probably drive from Spokane, Washington, to Portland, Maine, without encountering a single subpar highway rest stop bathroom.

    I have to admit, there are few things fouler and scarier than rest stops and gas station restrooms in the deep South. In my personal list of things I wish my people would improve, that’s at the top.

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  155. @Nathan Wartooth
    Bernie just flipped flopped of this in a recent interview that will air soon.

    //Legalizing pot section :
    JR: If you become president would you legalize the use of marijuana?
    BS: That’s something that we’re looking at right now.
    JR: And without Congress?
    BS: In my state… Well no, you can’t do that. There are things that you can do, and obviously we have states in this country like Colorado which have gone forward. And the idea is there are impediments to what Colorado has done because they can’t use the money they get, put it in the banking system and so forth and so on. This is an issue that we will be speaking out on again. But I’ll tell you this; this is what I will tell you. I am deeply concerned about the impact of the so-called war on drugs. I am very concerned about the number of young people who end up in jail for non-violent crimes. This is an issue that we have to deal with.
    JR: Would you mind if I ask you if you smoked marijuana?
    BS: I have, a couple of times when I was a kid, didn’t do me much good. I ended up coughing a lot. But that--
    JR: Is that a relevant issue?
    BS: I don’t think so. I think that there’s significant numbers of people in this country that smoke marijuana.
    //Borders section :
    JR: You were recently asked about open borders. And you said it was a right-wing idea, that it would make everybody poor in America. But one article said that you sounded like Donald Trump.
    BS: That’s, you know, this is…
    JR: But that suggestion that, immigrants would take jobs from Americans.
    BS: No, no, no. We have to be very careful about this one.
    JR: Yes, we have to.
    BS: My father was an immigrant. I believe absolutely in a comprehensive immigration reform. I think we have to bring 11 million undocumented people out of the shadows. But do I believe, does any member of Congress believe, does any Presidential candidate believe, that you simply open the borders, and you have millions of people who are unskilled coming into this country. Does anybody believe that?
    JR: No candidate wants open borders, but the suggestion that immigrants will lower wages and take away American jobs is wrong. You know it’s wrong.
    BS: Yes, I know. But that was the question that I was responding to. Some journalist-- what about open borders? This is not a good thing. The answer is no. Open borders is not a good thing.
    JR: How about immigrants, do immigrants lower wages? Are immigrants creating a bad impact on American borders?
    BS: No, what we have right now – here’s the concern that I have: for example, in terms of undocumented workers… I went to Immokalee, Florida; you know what takes place in Immokalee, Florida? That’s where the tomato workers are. I stood with the undocumented tomato workers, held a hearing in Washington D.C. to demand decent wages and decent working conditions. And we had some success. We've made some improvements. If we did not have undocumented workers today in America, do you know what would happen? Probably a large part of the agriculture sector of America would collapse and other parts of the economy would collapse. The job right now, what our function is, is to provide legal status for undocumented workers as quickly as we can and move toward a path toward citizenship. That is what we have to do. On the other hand, when you have 36 percent of Hispanic high school graduates who are unemployed, 51 percent of African-American kids who are unemployed, do I think it’s a good idea to open the border and bring in unskilled workers? No, I don’t.
    JR: As a Democratic socialist would you support the idea of an immigration agreement between the U.S., Canada and Mexico similar to the one the Europeans have, with no visas, with the European community?
    BS: That is something I would have to look at. I can’t give you an answer right now.
    JR: So you would consider the possibility of…
    BS: I would consider anything. But this is what I will consider and what I will tell you. That one of the reasons we have seen many people from the South come over the border is because of NAFTA. NAFTA, which I voted against by the way, was terrible in terms of what it did to small farms in Mexico, driving people off of the farms into the cities and eventually into America. But the whole issue of immigration, how we effectively deal with it, how many immigrants we should have coming into this country. Again, my dad was an immigrant. I believe in immigration. Immigration makes America stronger. This is an issue that needs to be thoroughly discussed.
    JR: So you would consider the possibility of the free flowing of workers between Canada, U.S. and Mexico?
    BS: I will look at all ideas with regard to immigration. It depends on the state of the economy. I don’t want to make any specific commitments now.

    Source please? Who is “JR”?

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    • Replies: @Nathan Wartooth
    Jorge Ramos.


    http://noticias.univision.com/article/2418666/2015-07-31/al-punto/bernie-sanders-tells-jorge-ramos-he-absolutely-can-beat-hillary-clinton
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  156. @Mark Minter
    Steve can you please delete my comment for this post or not approve it?

    Yep, that’s why the Left hates the Confederate flag–not because it’s anti-American but because it’s American. We (those of us who think that America is a particular place and people rather than some kind of Jacobin abstraction) are all Confederates now.

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  157. @Robbie
    I don't trust Bernie Sanders.

    It's all too convenient...the first black president, the first Jewish president....

    Our country has been taken away from us. Bernie has a Terrible Grade on Immigration...and these are just words.

    He won't ACTUALLY do anything. There's no way with what we all know that Bernie is For Reals On Our Side.

    You guys are too easy :)

    My view of iSteve commentators is some Tinder whore getting plowed lol in her trashy one room studio NYC apartment LOL HAHAHAHA

    "But he said he loved me!" LOL!

    I don’t think many people here necessarily assume that Trump or Sanders are the people we want them to be. At the end of the day, I have little confidence that either of these men “gets it” on the National Question.

    But as long as they make the right enemies for the right reasons, that’s something we can work with to demonstrate the grassroots popularity of immigration restriction and shift the Overton Window. To borrow a phrase: they’re not using us; we’re using them.

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  158. @tbraton
    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619 when the first African slaves were brought to America or at least 1808 when importation of slaves was barred, which is a lot longer than most whites in this country can claim. They may not have come over in the Mayflower, but they did come over soon thereafter in less luxurious accommodations. (Actually, since the Mayflower arrived in 1620, some blacks can trace their roots back even before then.) Not excusing the execrable behavior of too many blacks today, which truly merits criticism, but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619 when the first African slaves were brought to America or at least 1808 when importation of slaves was barred, which is a lot longer than most whites in this country can claim.

    Not true. Most Whites have roots going back before 1808.

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  159. @Anonymous
    Source please? Who is "JR"?
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  160. @Brutusale
    There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they're considered a minority?

    “There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?”

    They just are.

    Or if you demand logic,

    Women are Good.
    Minorities are Good.
    Therefore, Women are Minorities.

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    • Replies: @tbraton
    According to Wikipedia: "65.7% - The percentage of eligible female voters who voted in the 2008 election. 61.5% - The percentage of eligible male voters who voted in the 2008 election. 70.4 million -- The number of women who cast ballots in the 2008 presidential election, versus 60.7 million men."

    So there are nearly 10 million more female voters in the U.S. than male voters. You and I are officially a minority. I want to know where my check is from the Federal Government. Repent, Steve Sailer. No check for you.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Women are minorities because a significant chunk of them are convinced that they're victims and will vote against the interests of white men.
    , @Brutusale
    Just so. Pardon my hate speech...
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  161. @tbraton
    I happened to major in economics in college, and one of the basic concepts of economics is "supply and demand." Supply and demand determine the price of everything; increase demand and the price will rise; increase supply and the price will fall, all other things remaining equal. I have been arguing for years in opposition to massive immigration that opening up our borders depresses the wages of lower income Americans, since they are the ones that generally uneducated and untrained immigrants compete with. I have been stating for years that "it is a simple case of supply and demand." If you increase the supply of anything, its price will fall. Since we are talking about wages, the "price of labor," admitting more immigrants (legal or illegal) will cause wages to fall. Nothing complicated. That's basically what ended feudalism, as the Black Death of the 14th century killed so many Western Europeans that it reduced the pool of labor and forced the landowners to offer higher wages to available laborers in order to get the work done. That's why large employers through the ages have always favored immigration: to increase the pool of workers in order to lower the cost of labor. Americans for the most part are basically economically illiterate. I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he's saying it.

    “I am somewhat surprised that Bernie Sanders gets it but even more surprised he’s saying it.”

    But I am much less surprised to find politician Bernie Sanders talking out of both sides of his mouth, as poster Nathan Wartooth (post #134) pointed out above. He’s just doing what all politicians do all the time: seizing on the political issue du jour and playing it so as to attract as many new voters to your side without losing too many votes of your base. His statement shows that he at least grasps the issue and realizes that immigration actually hurts American workers but his new waffling on the issue indicates a realization that the issue may actually hurt you in today’s Democratic Party, where even the Blacks favor immigration, which hurts them the most.

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  162. @Steve Sailer
    "There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?"

    They just are.

    Or if you demand logic,

    Women are Good.
    Minorities are Good.
    Therefore, Women are Minorities.

    According to Wikipedia: “65.7% – The percentage of eligible female voters who voted in the 2008 election. 61.5% – The percentage of eligible male voters who voted in the 2008 election. 70.4 million — The number of women who cast ballots in the 2008 presidential election, versus 60.7 million men.”

    So there are nearly 10 million more female voters in the U.S. than male voters. You and I are officially a minority. I want to know where my check is from the Federal Government. Repent, Steve Sailer. No check for you.

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  163. @WhatEvvs
    Deep State Alert:

    The New York GD Times is reporting on illegal alien crime....is this a first? Or is it because the murderer had the temerity to off Native Americans?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/us/montana-couple-killed-after-helping-stranded-motorist.html?_r=0

    Either way, I think this is a significant development. Condolences to the murdered couple's family.

    PS - If you see someone who looks like the sleazebag alleged murderer, do a Derb and drive on by. The life you save may be your own. Maybe they thought he was another Crow, who knows.

    he New York GD Times is reporting on illegal alien crime

    Huh? Did I read the same article you did? There is not one single reference in the article you linked to referencing “illegal aliens” or “immigr” or even Mexican. The puke is referred to only as “of Wyoming” and a “non- American Indian.”

    All of the crucial details: that he’d entered our country illegally from Mexico, that the B.O. adminstration had given him a permanent residency anyway, that he had been charged with burglary shortly before the shooting (this after being legalized, ICE saying he couldn’t be deported because he’s now legal and had only been charged with burglary, not yet *convicted), and that he is an 18 y.o. thug, giving lie to the bromide that the poor widdle minors shouldn’t be deported, of all these crucial details the New York Slimes made no mention though they are now widely available.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    Yeah, we read the same story. I was simply pointing out that the fact that this story even reached the Slimes (very good) is telling. Five years ago they wouldn't have touched it.

    I've been trying to find out out the perp's background and I haven't been able to. I looked for, and coulnd't find, anything about him being an illegal. In fact I read that he was born in the US somewhere. Can you supply cites that he is illegal?

    It says the FBI is suppressing info about him:

    http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/jesus-deniz-jason-tana-jora-shane-shooting-facebook-brown-pride/

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  164. @Svigor

    Bernie doesn’t have to “do something” in office to “do something” right now. By messing up the easy rhetoric of “anti-immigration=evil white racist Republican”, he helps confound the Synagogue.
     
    Caught a bit of Rush today, presumably a roundup from the previous week. He had a sound bite from some leftist stooge (i.e., "journalist" or "pundit") wringing his hands about the emboldening effect Trump has had on the GOP. It's a case study on how little it takes to encourage the others. One person speaks up, and suddenly the truth is spreading like wildfire. TPTB get a lot of mileage out of the fear the sheep have of being the first to stick one's head out and get picked off. Hence the proverb, "kill one man, terrorize a thousand." And Zhabotinsky's assertion that "the best service our Russian friends give to us is never to speak aloud about us."

    Once again Steve’s peanut gallery makes themselves look ridiculous.
     
    Yes, the iSteve commentariat really stands out against the sober, methodical, fact-oriented backdrop of the United States. Your perspicacity is commendable.

    Not excusing the execrable behavior of too many blacks today, which truly merits criticism, but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.
     
    A lot of mules and horses can make the same claim.

    PS – If you see someone who looks like the sleazebag alleged murderer, do a Derb and drive on by. The life you save may be your own. Maybe they thought he was another Crow, who knows.
     
    God, what a story. He says he murdered them because their daughter laughed at him and he got tired of waiting around, whatever that means.

    Hi, Svig,
    As many iSteve commenters may know, I live in Wyoming. I’m getting a bit more of the story. What happened is, the Crow Indian mom of the family, Tana, was the one who initially saw Jesus Mendoza. When she passed him on the road, she thought he was just an innocent kid whose car broke down. So she went home and got her husband and daughter and came back to the illegal-made-legal puke to help. So the dad was driving when they came back to Mendoza.

    When arrested, Mendoza told cops he “got tired of waiting,” meaning he figured Tana wasn’t toot-sweet enough about returning with her family in the family’s car.

    You can get local stuff that New York Slimes hides by going to billingsgazette.com and the Casper Star-Tribune at trib.com

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  165. @The Z Blog

    want to know how Bernie’s constituents keep their state so white.
     
    Snow and ball shriveling cold.

    How well has that worked out for the Twin Cities, and Minnesota in general? Before the Somalis, there were a heck of a lot of regular African Americans up there in the snow and ball shriveling cold, too.

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  166. @WhatEvvs
    The way I read it, Mr. Baldwin "of course" is meant to apply to all Jews. It doesn't apply to my Jewish friends most of whom are more or less Gomperian on the subject. The rest I trust can be shamed into supporting immigration restriction if it is sufficiently demonstrated that the majority culture has changed.

    I welcome correction.

    Since 'syon' isn't cutting and pasting today, I will:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/issues/unions/what-samuel-gompers-had-say-about-illega.html


    "America must not be overwhelmed. Every effort to enact immigration legislation must expect to meet a number of hostile forces and, in particular, two hostile forces of considerable strength.

    "One of these is composed of corporation employers who desire to employ physical strength (broad backs) at the lowest possible wage and who prefer a rapidly revolving labor supply at low wages to a regular supply of American wage earners at fair wages.

    "The other is composed of racial groups in the United States who oppose all restrictive legislation because they want the doors left open for an influx of their countrymen regardless of the menace to the people of their adopted country.'
     

    Say it again Sam!

    Speak the truth!

    More from Conservapedia but I won't syonize you: read it yourselves.

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Samuel_Gompers

    The way I read it, Mr. Baldwin “of course” is meant to apply to all Jews.

    Not “all” Jews–that would be silly. There are prominent al-right Jews. I meant it like I might say, “Our black friends voted for Obama, of course.” It is exceptional to encounter Jews who are not in favor of diversity.

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  167. @Steve Sailer
    "There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?"

    They just are.

    Or if you demand logic,

    Women are Good.
    Minorities are Good.
    Therefore, Women are Minorities.

    Women are minorities because a significant chunk of them are convinced that they’re victims and will vote against the interests of white men.

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  168. @Anon
    Being anti-immigrant is Sander's way of attempting to triangulate his way into the good graces of black voters. Black elites and black ideology have a powerful grip on the Dem leadership, and Sanders knows that more Mexicans means fewer jobs for blacks, but something even more important. More Mexicans pouring into big US cities means more blacks are going to be driven out of their neighborhoods by Mexican gangs via 'ethnic cleansing', and blacks know it. Being anti-immigrant is one of the few ways Bernie can pocket the support of the black Dems.

    I cannot imagine why Sanders would calculate that he needs to be anti-immigrant to win the Black vote; adopting an anti white posture has proven to be a foolproof Black vote magnet and doesn’t turn off the self hating white left.

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  169. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:
    @JSM
    he New York GD Times is reporting on illegal alien crime

    Huh? Did I read the same article you did? There is not one single reference in the article you linked to referencing "illegal aliens" or "immigr" or even Mexican. The puke is referred to only as "of Wyoming" and a "non- American Indian."

    All of the crucial details: that he'd entered our country illegally from Mexico, that the B.O. adminstration had given him a permanent residency anyway, that he had been charged with burglary shortly before the shooting (this after being legalized, ICE saying he couldn't be deported because he's now legal and had only been charged with burglary, not yet *convicted), and that he is an 18 y.o. thug, giving lie to the bromide that the poor widdle minors shouldn't be deported, of all these crucial details the New York Slimes made no mention though they are now widely available.

    Yeah, we read the same story. I was simply pointing out that the fact that this story even reached the Slimes (very good) is telling. Five years ago they wouldn’t have touched it.

    I’ve been trying to find out out the perp’s background and I haven’t been able to. I looked for, and coulnd’t find, anything about him being an illegal. In fact I read that he was born in the US somewhere. Can you supply cites that he is illegal?

    It says the FBI is suppressing info about him:

    http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/jesus-deniz-jason-tana-jora-shane-shooting-facebook-brown-pride/

    Read More
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  170. WhatEvvs [AKA "AamirKhanFan"] says:

    He’s apparently legal:

    http://www.kulr8.com/story/29680237/federal-agency-confirms-legal-status-of-pryor-shooting-suspect

    Not that that makes a difference to me. He should never have been allowed in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JSM
    AKFan, I'm way late on this. Sorry. My information that Jesus Deniz was an illegal alien (who was eventually made legal, I'm speculating under the DACA ruling of Obama) is because of a local story from the Casper Star Tribnue where the other residents of Worland said that Jesus has been in U.S. since very young, many years, according even to his own lawyer.

    http://trib.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/small-town-in-shock-after-learning-of-double-murder/article_1f96dc12-7b08-5bb8-84e1-bd5e16d3c7dd.html

    Quote:

    While the U.S. Department of Customs and Immigration released a statement Friday saying that Deniz had legally entered the United States from Mexico in 2013, Hopkinson said that his client had been in the community for "a long, long time."
    .

    And, another story, this time from Great Falls Tribune, with another long-time resident of Worland who knew Deniz since he was a kid:

    http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2015/08/01/wyoming-community-reacts-charges-resident/30991811/

    Quote:


    Patty Sanchez said she had known Jesus Deniz since he came to live in the town as a boy

    Here's what ICE says: (from Billings Gazette)

    Jesus Yeizon Deniz-Mendoza, 18, from Mexico, was legally admitted to the United States at the San Ysidro Port of Entry May 31, 2013.

    Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/immigration-and-customs-enforcement-statement-on-jesus-yeizon-deniz/article_75444512-da72-51d3-ae98-44b03d53d85e.html#ixzz3j2JB5uzC

    ----

    Note that Deniz was legally admitted just two years ago, (age 16) yet he was known by residents of Worland for many years, since he was a kid.

    ---So he's been in Wyoming for years. Seems likely to me, since his adoptive parents speak Spanish, he was brought here illegally by them, then went back to Mexico and was admitted legally in 2013. Which is why, in my post, I'd called him an illegal-made-legal puke.
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  171. @Steve Sailer
    "There are 5.5 million more women than men in the United States. Remind me again why they’re considered a minority?"

    They just are.

    Or if you demand logic,

    Women are Good.
    Minorities are Good.
    Therefore, Women are Minorities.

    Just so. Pardon my hate speech…

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  172. Whites will be a minority of the under 18 population starting in 4 years.
    the youth of today are the future. Already the Millennials are just 57% white

    in 2000 the under 18 population was 58% non-hispanic white
    in 2010 the under 18 population was 54% non hispanic white
    in 2020 the under 18 population will be 49% non-hispanic white

    looking at the actually numbers highlights the effects of the white fertility rate
    73 million under 18 in 2000, 43 million Whites
    74 million under 18 in 2010, 39 million Whites
    74 million under 18 in 2020, 36 million Whites

    so in 2020 America will have less than 45 million white females, and 30% will never reproduce. another 10% will have mulatto, or mixed race children. only 22 million will actually have white children, but they will not have enough children to replace themselves. More whites have died since 2012 than have been born, we are not just becoming a minority the nation.

    That being said, hispanics are not as pro-immigration as many suspect….they also see the downside of massive immigration and may be the ones who build the fence to keep out the invaders. Just as Cesar Chavez attempted to fight against illegal immigration, for the same reasons Sanders wants to reduce illegal immigration, to help maintain higher wages..

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  173. […] have nothing to do with ethnic nepotism. Indeed, such a policy can be solidly self-interested if one favors a better environment for oneself and one’s progeny and close […]

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  174. @tbraton
    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619 when the first African slaves were brought to America or at least 1808 when importation of slaves was barred, which is a lot longer than most whites in this country can claim. They may not have come over in the Mayflower, but they did come over soon thereafter in less luxurious accommodations. (Actually, since the Mayflower arrived in 1620, some blacks can trace their roots back even before then.) Not excusing the execrable behavior of too many blacks today, which truly merits criticism, but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619

    No they can’t. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

    but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.

    No they don’t.

    And where do American Indians fit into your imagination?

    Read More
    • Replies: @tbraton
    "Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820."

    And how many white Americans can trace their roots that far back? I know I can't. "Between 1820 and 1930, some 4.5 million Irish migrated to the United States. Also in the 19th century, the United States received some 5 million German immigrants. . .In the national census of 2000, more Americans claimed German ancestry than any other group. . .Between 1880 and 1920, a time of rapid industrialization and urbanization, America received more than 20 million immigrants. Beginning in the 1890s, the majority of arrivals were from Central, Eastern and Southern Europe. In that decade alone, some 600,000 Italians migrated to America, and by 1920 more than 4 million had entered the United States. Jews from Eastern Europe fleeing religious persecution also arrived in large numbers; over 2 million entered the United States between 1880 and 1920." An awful lot of Americans arrived here long after the first blacks arrived, which, btw, was my only point.

    "And where do American Indians fit into your imagination?"

    Are they the ones we sometimes refer to as "Native Americans"? I have always wondered about that phrase. Could you help me and explain why we refer to American Indians that way?
    , @Reg Cæsar


    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619
     
    No they can’t. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

     

    That would be about seven generations for a black American born at the beginning of this century. That's 128 ancestral slots to fill-- on average, approximately 100 of which would be black.

    Are you saying that of 100 nearly random blacks chosen from the early 19th century, none of them would have an ancestor from 17th century America? Are they that inbred?

    1619 is Mayflower descent for blacks, minus the paperwork. The Mayflower society (GSMD) estimates 30-35 million Mayflower descendants in the world. Far from a majority of those of Puritan descent, but getting there. Something similar would have happened with blacks. Almost all native blacks would have some early 17th-century American ancestry, black or white. (Obama has the latter.)

    My guess is that a majority of white Americans would have at least one colonial line by now.
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  175. @Rifleman

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619
     
    No they can't. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

    but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.
     
    No they don't.

    And where do American Indians fit into your imagination?

    “Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.”

    And how many white Americans can trace their roots that far back? I know I can’t. “Between 1820 and 1930, some 4.5 million Irish migrated to the United States. Also in the 19th century, the United States received some 5 million German immigrants. . .In the national census of 2000, more Americans claimed German ancestry than any other group. . .Between 1880 and 1920, a time of rapid industrialization and urbanization, America received more than 20 million immigrants. Beginning in the 1890s, the majority of arrivals were from Central, Eastern and Southern Europe. In that decade alone, some 600,000 Italians migrated to America, and by 1920 more than 4 million had entered the United States. Jews from Eastern Europe fleeing religious persecution also arrived in large numbers; over 2 million entered the United States between 1880 and 1920.” An awful lot of Americans arrived here long after the first blacks arrived, which, btw, was my only point.

    “And where do American Indians fit into your imagination?”

    Are they the ones we sometimes refer to as “Native Americans”? I have always wondered about that phrase. Could you help me and explain why we refer to American Indians that way?

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  176. @JerseyGuy
    One thing you'll notice is that the vast majority of jobs that us metro area types would associate with immigrant labor (i.e. Dishwashers, mowing lawns, hotel maids, etc.) are still performed primarily by whites in Vermont.

    I guess the primary reasons it avoided so much immigration is that it is so far north and that it really doesn't have any major cities (Burlington isn't that big).

    It does have a very low birthrate and it has lost a lot of its young people unfortunately. To be honest, if you were a smart, blue-collar white, you would be better off going out West. Yes, there is still a lot to admire about Vermont's localism and conservationist mindset. However, it really doesn't create a lot of opportunities for young people, especially young men.

    “I guess the primary reasons it avoided so much immigration is that it is so far north and that it really doesn’t have any major cities ”

    Zoning.

    My own little township in PA has a “Two good acres , no wetlands, no more than 12 % slope for single family homes.”
    There are areas zoned for multifamily housing, as there has to be by law, but somehow there are always reasons why they cannot be built.

    We do seem to be long honkies.

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  177. @Rifleman

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619
     
    No they can't. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

    but pointing out that blacks have more of a claim to be Americans than most of us have.
     
    No they don't.

    And where do American Indians fit into your imagination?

    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619

    No they can’t. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

    That would be about seven generations for a black American born at the beginning of this century. That’s 128 ancestral slots to fill– on average, approximately 100 of which would be black.

    Are you saying that of 100 nearly random blacks chosen from the early 19th century, none of them would have an ancestor from 17th century America? Are they that inbred?

    1619 is Mayflower descent for blacks, minus the paperwork. The Mayflower society (GSMD) estimates 30-35 million Mayflower descendants in the world. Far from a majority of those of Puritan descent, but getting there. Something similar would have happened with blacks. Almost all native blacks would have some early 17th-century American ancestry, black or white. (Obama has the latter.)

    My guess is that a majority of white Americans would have at least one colonial line by now.

    Read More
    • Agree: SPMoore8
    • Replies: @Rifleman

    1619 is Mayflower descent for blacks, minus the paperwork.
     
    No it isn't. You have to show that the population continued to reproduce and wasn't replaced.

    For instance, as far as we know Lincoln has no living descendants. Lincoln and his descendants were replaced.

    Are you saying that of 100 nearly random blacks chosen from the early 19th century, none of them would have an ancestor from 17th century America?
     
    Again, "they" are descended mainly from a later population. That population was West African and had nothing to do with the US or Europe. In fact black slaves retained many African traits, tendencies, habits and styles of life even after living in North America for many generations.

    That doesn't make them "more American". In some ways they were/are less American and more something very different, beyond the obvious physical differences.
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  178. @Reg Cæsar


    I have to point out that most African-Americans (with the major exception of our current black President) can trace their roots in this country back to 1619
     
    No they can’t. Vast majority of black slaves were imported from 1760-1820.

     

    That would be about seven generations for a black American born at the beginning of this century. That's 128 ancestral slots to fill-- on average, approximately 100 of which would be black.

    Are you saying that of 100 nearly random blacks chosen from the early 19th century, none of them would have an ancestor from 17th century America? Are they that inbred?

    1619 is Mayflower descent for blacks, minus the paperwork. The Mayflower society (GSMD) estimates 30-35 million Mayflower descendants in the world. Far from a majority of those of Puritan descent, but getting there. Something similar would have happened with blacks. Almost all native blacks would have some early 17th-century American ancestry, black or white. (Obama has the latter.)

    My guess is that a majority of white Americans would have at least one colonial line by now.

    1619 is Mayflower descent for blacks, minus the paperwork.

    No it isn’t. You have to show that the population continued to reproduce and wasn’t replaced.

    For instance, as far as we know Lincoln has no living descendants. Lincoln and his descendants were replaced.

    Are you saying that of 100 nearly random blacks chosen from the early 19th century, none of them would have an ancestor from 17th century America?

    Again, “they” are descended mainly from a later population. That population was West African and had nothing to do with the US or Europe. In fact black slaves retained many African traits, tendencies, habits and styles of life even after living in North America for many generations.

    That doesn’t make them “more American”. In some ways they were/are less American and more something very different, beyond the obvious physical differences.

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  179. @WhatEvvs
    He's apparently legal:

    http://www.kulr8.com/story/29680237/federal-agency-confirms-legal-status-of-pryor-shooting-suspect

    Not that that makes a difference to me. He should never have been allowed in.

    AKFan, I’m way late on this. Sorry. My information that Jesus Deniz was an illegal alien (who was eventually made legal, I’m speculating under the DACA ruling of Obama) is because of a local story from the Casper Star Tribnue where the other residents of Worland said that Jesus has been in U.S. since very young, many years, according even to his own lawyer.

    http://trib.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/small-town-in-shock-after-learning-of-double-murder/article_1f96dc12-7b08-5bb8-84e1-bd5e16d3c7dd.html

    Quote:

    While the U.S. Department of Customs and Immigration released a statement Friday saying that Deniz had legally entered the United States from Mexico in 2013, Hopkinson said that his client had been in the community for “a long, long time.”
    .

    And, another story, this time from Great Falls Tribune, with another long-time resident of Worland who knew Deniz since he was a kid:

    http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2015/08/01/wyoming-community-reacts-charges-resident/30991811/

    Quote:

    Patty Sanchez said she had known Jesus Deniz since he came to live in the town as a boy

    Here’s what ICE says: (from Billings Gazette)

    Jesus Yeizon Deniz-Mendoza, 18, from Mexico, was legally admitted to the United States at the San Ysidro Port of Entry May 31, 2013.

    Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/immigration-and-customs-enforcement-statement-on-jesus-yeizon-deniz/article_75444512-da72-51d3-ae98-44b03d53d85e.html#ixzz3j2JB5uzC

    —-

    Note that Deniz was legally admitted just two years ago, (age 16) yet he was known by residents of Worland for many years, since he was a kid.

    —So he’s been in Wyoming for years. Seems likely to me, since his adoptive parents speak Spanish, he was brought here illegally by them, then went back to Mexico and was admitted legally in 2013. Which is why, in my post, I’d called him an illegal-made-legal puke.

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  180. Oh, and AKfan,

    HERE is the article I was really looking for but couldn’t seem to locate when I was constructing my post just above.

    This article linked below is really strong stuff that Deniz was in Wyoming for years and years, and then left. I speculate to go back to Mexico so he could come back across legally in 2013..

    http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/he-was-a-troubled-kid-worland-community-reacts-to-resident/article_c900971f-9ae3-503a-95fc-2d09dfaec2bb.html

    QUOTE:

    Gage Brown, 16, who went to middle school and part of high school with Jesus Yeizon Deniz Mendoza before he left after his sophomore year, said he remembered Jesus Deniz vaguely, and he’d said, “hi, once in middle school.” The only impression Brown had of him was that he was stubborn and had an attitude.

    —So, this Deniz as a kid was in Worland in middle school and part of high school, then left as a sophomore. Since Deniz is 18 here in 2015, his being about 16 and a sophomore in 2012 / 13 sounds about right. So all the pieces fit.

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