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From Commentary:

Alt-Blight
Review of ‘(((Semitism)))’ By Jonathan Weisman

(((Semitism))): Being Jewish in America in the Age of Trump by NYT deputy Washington editor Jonathan Weisman is to be published on March 18, 2018.

BEN SHAPIRO / JAN. 17, 2018

… According to Weisman, Judaism derives its present-day importance from the way it provides a religious echo to secular leftism. This is his actual opening sentence: “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.” Thus does he describe a people whose binding glue over the millennia is a faith tradition literally designed to separate its adherents from those who are not their co-religionists.

 
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  1. Oy vey! The goyim know! Shut it down!!

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  2. Moses says:

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    Except Israel.

    It’s almost as if Weisman trying his best to confirm all the negative stereotypes about Jews subverting their host societies. Chutzpah indeed.

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    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914
    , @rogue-one
    From Hareetz

    >Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of U.S. comedian Sarah, is behind initiative to support some 40,000 Sudanese and Eritrean migrants who are facing forced deportation from Israel


    >A group of Israeli rabbis, including the sister of comedian Sarah Silverman, launched Tuesday an Anne Frank-inspired activist program calling on Israelis to hide African asylum seekers facing forced expulsion

    (behind paywall)
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-like-anne-frank-rabbis-plan-to-hide-asylum-seekers-in-israeli-homes-1.5743500

    >Hundreds of Israeli rabbis on Tuesday said they are willing to hide upwards of 38,000 African asylum seekers facing deportation in coming months under the banner of one of Judaism's biggest heroes: Anne Frank.

    The campaign to protect the Africans, most of whom crossed Israel's border with Egypt in an attempt to flee regional civil wars and economic strife over the last decade, is organized by Rabbis for Human Rights, an Israeli organization based in Jerusalem whose ranks include Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of comedian Sarah Silverman.

    Inspired by the sanctuary movement in the United States, which aims to protect unauthorized immigrants from deportation, the group has donned their campaign The Anne Frank Home Sanctuary movement.

    (http://www.newsweek.com/israel-immigration-refugees-rabbis-anne-frank-deportation-783969)

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.
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  3. Forbes says:

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    Somehow Israel didn’t get the memo that Weisman cribs from…

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    • Replies: @Days of Broken Arrows
    You beat me to this comment, and I'll bet there will be 100 more like it. How did the author not see this contradiction? How did the editor or publisher not point this out to him? Israel is nothing but borders, so I guess the Jews can't "flourish" there.
    , @Thin-Skinned Masta-Beta
    Turn back the clock of history a little bit more and it becomes even more obvious.

    Had the Jews been more effective at keeping the Romans out, they might have never had to leave the Levant.
    , @Assynt
    The diaspora strategy so to speak, mass immigration to disorient society and further the extraction of resources while preserving the mobile ethno state. Lets take this show on the road boys, the jig is up. Pedro, you'd make a good Peter, now look more German for a few.
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  4. Dmitry says:

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period – and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    >local lord requires that peasants buy alcohol through local Jew monopolist and/or accept such monopoly alcohol in lieu of payments
    >meritocracy
    >the American recording industry
    >meritocracy
    >Hollywood
    >meritocracy
    >Jews do badly after revolution, witness the Bolsheviki or Napoleon giving the Jews their best Western European deal up to that point
    , @Sunbeam
    "Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war."

    Well put.

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    See, I think this is a stupid statement. Made by someone who hasn't thought things through.

    My mind tells me that a world is possible where someone will beat your head in, and take your stuff - not because of the color of your skin, not because of your religion, but simply because you have "stuff" and you are not in their group.

    And they won't have the slightest pang of conscience, or frankly give the whole thing a second thought.

    People vote with their feet. My perception is not many Jews want to live in countries with a lot of diversity. They could move to Brazil, to Columbia, to Peru any time they wanted. Yet the bulk of them seem to want to live in developed, currently white, western countries. No Hait, no Dominican Republic. It's all Canada, France, England, Italy, all the way down.

    So why the hell do they want to turn this place into Brazil Norte? Is it some kind of "this time it'll work" kind of thing?

    Because from where I sit culture and institutions are all that separate us from some kind of chaotic period, where all kind of nasty things can come about. Not in the sense of having concentration camps, but in the sense of having an ever present fear of being kidnapped and held for ransom, from getting killed by a random mugger, heck from getting a phone call that your business was looted and burned in rioting.
    , @Anonymous
    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin's Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.
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  5. J.Ross says: • Website

    Among the numerous disadvantages to letting Jews be your intellectual caste is that you must edit out half of everything they say. I didn’t make it past the first paragraph. Yes, Ben, a significant number of Jews are far leftists, conflate that identity (except when an anti-Semite points it out), and frequently justify their politics, in terms of their Jewishness. And yes “alt-right” is relatively right (insofar as it is anything). And neither definition squabble really matters. No Somethingstein is breaking with the DNC because Ben explained a biblical passage differently than she understood it, and the idea that the alt-right are leftists is like Jonah Goldberg pointing out that Nazis (like the rest of the spectrum) were relatively leftist in many respects compared to today. If true, then meaningless.
    I predict that Shapiro is not capable of doing a good slam of this book because he’ll be too busy in ownership disputes over its symbols. I shall drink something and try again.

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    Did Ben Shapiro claim the alt-right were leftists in that review? I didn't catch that, but when I went back to read it again to double check, I got paywalled.
    , @Jimi Shmendrix
    Why "predict" when you can simply click the link and read for yourself what Shapiro says?

    And here's a little inconvenient truth for all the commenters who, instead of clicking through and reading the articles chose to focus on the "money shot" in Steve's synopsis to beat the dead horse about Israel's borders:

    Y'all are guilty of the exact same intellectual laziness and lack of meaningful insight that results in the Weismans of the world and their ilk to who come to think the way they do.

    People who rely on slogans to form their "opinions" rarely if ever have anything of substance to add to a conversation.
    , @Alec Leamas

    Among the numerous disadvantages to letting Jews be your intellectual caste is that you must edit out half of everything they say.
     
    And the worse disadvantage of this state of affairs is that eventually they get powerful enough to edit out everything you say.
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  6. @Forbes

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Somehow Israel didn't get the memo that Weisman cribs from...

    You beat me to this comment, and I’ll bet there will be 100 more like it. How did the author not see this contradiction? How did the editor or publisher not point this out to him? Israel is nothing but borders, so I guess the Jews can’t “flourish” there.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Weisman gets around it by "being conflicted" about Israel -- this is not true post-Zionism, this is like AIPAC's annex "J Street," a gatekeeping trick meant to affect opposition. Shapiro quotes Weisman later on to the effect that Jews ought to be as bothered by the BDS movement creating problems for them (as a sign of their connection to Israel) as they are that BDS is calling for Israel to not exist any more. Even as a post-Zionist or anti-Semite that doesn't make any sense: a more "objective" Jewish community would still have an immutable connection to a country calling itself "The Jewish State."
    The whole thing is interesting but as I feared it's full of finger puppetry:

    As the alt-right’s chief journalistic target in 2016, I’m always happy to see them clubbed like a baby seal.
     
    This is so precious I have to show it to my Abigail pillow.
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  7. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, any thoughts on Stormy Daniels?

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  8. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period - and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

    >local lord requires that peasants buy alcohol through local Jew monopolist and/or accept such monopoly alcohol in lieu of payments
    >meritocracy
    >the American recording industry
    >meritocracy
    >Hollywood
    >meritocracy
    >Jews do badly after revolution, witness the Bolsheviki or Napoleon giving the Jews their best Western European deal up to that point

    Read More
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  9. Why not have both?

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  10. Flip says:

    It sounds like he is basically in agreement with Kevin MacDonald who wrote “A People That Shall Dwell Alone: Judaism as a Group Evolutionary Strategy.”

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    • Replies: @The Craw
    But that can't be right ... MacDonald is an anti-semite!
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  11. Luke Lea says:

    The problem is that Jewish intellectuals, as smart as they are, know little about history, either their own (especially their own) or anybody else’s. They are descended from rabbis, who were immersed in Talmudic studies for centuries, completely cut off from the world in culturally isolated communities. Look at the heredi today.

    But I repeat myself.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Wrong and dangerously so. A lot of these people have degrees in "history." The issue is that they flagrantly lie, especially on pet topics, especially when speaking to animals. They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable, they think that everything is a negotiation, that every time they open their mouths is a separate episode suffering no obligations from any previous claims. But it's completely wrong to say that they know nothing.
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  12. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Days of Broken Arrows
    You beat me to this comment, and I'll bet there will be 100 more like it. How did the author not see this contradiction? How did the editor or publisher not point this out to him? Israel is nothing but borders, so I guess the Jews can't "flourish" there.

    Weisman gets around it by “being conflicted” about Israel — this is not true post-Zionism, this is like AIPAC’s annex “J Street,” a gatekeeping trick meant to affect opposition. Shapiro quotes Weisman later on to the effect that Jews ought to be as bothered by the BDS movement creating problems for them (as a sign of their connection to Israel) as they are that BDS is calling for Israel to not exist any more. Even as a post-Zionist or anti-Semite that doesn’t make any sense: a more “objective” Jewish community would still have an immutable connection to a country calling itself “The Jewish State.”
    The whole thing is interesting but as I feared it’s full of finger puppetry:

    As the alt-right’s chief journalistic target in 2016, I’m always happy to see them clubbed like a baby seal.

    This is so precious I have to show it to my Abigail pillow.

    Read More
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  13. AKAHorace says:
    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This is absolutely stunning. This totally bears out what another commenter was just saying about the "real Nazis." The SPLC is brought in at every juncture. Antifa is as openly lionized and apologized for. The woman doesn't appear to have any unique computer skills in terms of the main action of the story, she's compiling and maintaining a blacklist.
    This is why a civil war is looming. What reconciliation are you going to seek with a person who wants you fired, beaten, homeless, and therefore suicidal, and who furthermore has organizational and governmental means of trying to bring that about? This person isn't trying to put her own message out there, she's punishing people whose message she disagrees with.
    , @bomag

    antifa data mining
     
    Dreary stuff: left wing activists whose goal is to get people fired for their social/political views. Evil.

    There should be more push-back: injunctions; compensatory and punitive awards. If the political right had one tenth of the legal firepower of illegal aliens, we'd have a better country.


    “I loved the activist community,” she says, “and saying things we weren’t supposed to say.”
     
    Must be nice to be on the winning side of who-whom.

    The featured lady checked all the boxes: raised a conservative Christian; has rescue pets; works at a college; upset when Muslims are criticized; etc.

    , @Maj. Kong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXaHbJhKWLc
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  14. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Luke Lea
    The problem is that Jewish intellectuals, as smart as they are, know little about history, either their own (especially their own) or anybody else’s. They are descended from rabbis, who were immersed in Talmudic studies for centuries, completely cut off from the world in culturally isolated communities. Look at the heredi today.

    But I repeat myself.

    Wrong and dangerously so. A lot of these people have degrees in “history.” The issue is that they flagrantly lie, especially on pet topics, especially when speaking to animals. They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable, they think that everything is a negotiation, that every time they open their mouths is a separate episode suffering no obligations from any previous claims. But it’s completely wrong to say that they know nothing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Luke Lea
    re: a lot of these people have a degree in "history"

    Having a degree in "history" is not the same as knowing a lot about history. It only means they know a lot about a little bit of history.

    , @rogue-one
    Reminds me of Max Boot, the neo-conman. He knows a bit about military history but deliberately lies and misrepresents events to support his "invade the world, invite the world" ideas.

    He isn't a buffoon, but he is a very effective liar.
    , @Lot
    "They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable"

    Nor did Plato, Hume, Bohr and Heisenberg. But you know better!
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  15. Dmitry says:
    @Moses

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

     

    Except Israel.

    It's almost as if Weisman trying his best to confirm all the negative stereotypes about Jews subverting their host societies. Chutzpah indeed.

    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

    /

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses
    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.

    David Brooks' son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what's good for America we should listen.
    , @Mr. Anon

    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.
     
    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren't so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I'm guessing.............No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it's all so regrettable - I'm really against it, but.....................

    That's a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we're really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) - just give us a majority, and we'll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu's planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599


    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599

    "American Jewish protests against the planned deportation have been relatively muted and confined to Jewish groups that are less reluctant to criticize the Israeli government on policy issues. A recent exchange with Israel’s Foreign Ministry on the matter was signed by HIAS, the lead Jewish immigration advocacy group, leaders of the Reform movement, the National Council of Jewish Women and J Street, the liberal Middle East policy group, among other groups.

    Even these groups, fighting what they see as threats to immigrants and minorities in the era of President Donald Trump, lack the bandwidth to make this a priority issue.

    “The American Jewish community can be moved on these issues,” said Libby Lenkinski, the vice president for public engagement for the New Israel Fund, which funds groups that assist the African refugees in Israel. “But between that and making it a cause celebre? There’s some distance.”

    “We’re obviously fighting on a lot of fronts right now for fairness and justice for refugees,” said Melanie Nezer, the vice president for public affairs at HIAS. “It would be nice to have one problem – we don’t.”
     

    In any event, even if there are jewish groups that unhypocritically advocate the same crazy stuff for Israel that they wish on the US, that doesn't mean their advocacy here is of no consequence, or that I shouldn't take notice of it.
    , @Escher
    “Grave concerns” is somewhat different from the language they use while referring to Trump’s policies.
    , @Anonymous

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.
     

    This is 100% about running interference with respect to public opinion in the US and UK. They finally figured out (probably with help from people like some of us) how it might look. Nothing more than that.

    Of course, thus far the 'compliant' media in the USA is making it even easier for them by ignoring the issue. But this will be excellent 'cover' should someone take note of it.

    , @Pericles

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

     

    This is of course not acceptable and America needs to take action. Withhold the aid to Israel until they reverse their hateful policies.
    , @jack ryan
    This is worthless.

    It's like American Jews virtue signaling that they are for....

    Peace in the Middle East - getting Nobel Prize folks in Norway and Sweden to give the Nobel Peace Price to Menachim Begin and Yassir Arafat - two terrorists.
    , @anon
    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.

    This is quite obviously not the case, as you can find out simply by asking them. Just ask one on Twitter if, since the US will be taking in fewer Muslim refugees, if Israel can take them on. After all, immigrants are awesome, right?

    You'll see, pretty quickly, that they all have the same answer. Israel is different, because it's for the Jewish people.

    People have actually done this, you know. You seem to think that nobody has thought of this before.

    There is no double thinking going on at all. Only single thinking. "Gentile societies must be damaged and undermined, while our society must be preserved." That's it. That is literally what it all boils down to.

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  16. Dr. X says:

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    Then the Israelis ought to start tearing down that wall on their border… built with the help of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars.

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  17. Carol says:

    It seems like Jews don’t care about Israel anymore. They don’t identify with it so they see no contradiction.

    Quite change from the Jews of my youth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses

    It seems like Jews don’t care about Israel anymore.
     
    Erm....ok.
    , @Dmitry
    The non-religious ones will disappear in a few generations. Demographic trends are not on their side.
    , @Darwin's Sh-tlist
    I think most of the younger Jews who do tend to be either Orthodox or neoconservatives. Regarding secular, progressive Jews, I think you're right. In this, someone like Alan Dershowitz is kind of a throwback to an earlier time.
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  18. It’s extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn’t affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not “alt-right” qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won’t be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.

    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I’m talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they’re wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It’s extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it’s usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say “Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist…he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake].”

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn’t ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it’s over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don’t get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you’re in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. “Libertarian” think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, “Hawks” dedicated to our Greatest Ally ™, impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn’t show up for. No longer. They used up all of their “Oops” chances a long time ago and it’s crystal clear we can’t (and won’t) share a nation with them. Steve’s never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don’t *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

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    • Agree: utu, Neuday, AndrewR
    • Disagree: Opinionator
    • LOL: IHTG
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    tl;dr
    , @SimpleSong
    Yeah I don't think citizenism can work; arguably it has been tried for several hundred years of US history and it failed; it devolved into empire. But for various reasons Steve can never go alt-right. Moses didn't reach the promised land either.

    It's always odd to see citizenists or constitutionalists parsing the exact meaning of some constitutional subparagraph or intent of the founders or whatever. I imagine this was what it was like watching the medieval scholasticists arguing about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Like, wrong framework guys.

    I'm not saying words and such aren't important. Just that all the most important words are spelled with the letters C, T, A and G.
    , @Whiskey
    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The "Jewish Question" immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there's a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered ... nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won't follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won't flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can't even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve's appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers -- shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that's a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.
    , @3g4me
    @15 anonymouslee: "Citizenism died on the vine."

    This. Since any number of my comments haven't met with Steve's approval (his blog, his rules, but it's still irritating), perhaps he will allow me to fully endorse yours. Steve is earnest in his desire for moderation and racially/ethnically blind citizenism, but refuses to see the impossibility of a single nation somehow shared by those who insist on being both special and equal, and those who want a homogenous homeland. Between those who want to see history and reality as things really were and are, and those who worship at the altar of their ancestors' stories of eternal grievance.

    " You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don’t get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you’re in YOUR twilight."

    Well said. I want a future for my sons. I want a future for White children that does not involve them being enslaved by guilt or grievance or those who feel the future of the nation of their birthright is a contest to be won by whichever group can outshout or outmaneuver the settlers and their posterity. The hell with "may the best man win." This isn't a game. The "best man" is the man who shares my core values and beliefs, not the stranger who thinks he's more clever or more deserving. The stakes are literally an ethnocentric future or utter extinction.
    , @Neil Templeton
    I don't think Steve is trying to remind Jews of anything. I think he's trying to help some of us figure something out. Apparently you've already got it figured out. If so, please school me on why Jews clearly see Whites as the enemy when the evidence here and elsewhere indicates that many Jews do not see Whites as the enemy. Please school me on the fundamental ideological differences between Old Testament Jews and Old Testament Crackers. Please identify whether this statement comes from a Jew or White American: "I just want to be left alone."
    , @Opinionator
    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse.

    Wrong. Citizenism has not failed. It has never been tried, never been pushed.
    , @Mitchell Porter
    What is the alternative ideal and the plan for realizing it? What is to be the concept of American nationhood?

    I'll start with Ann Coulter. I saw her in an exchange with a Latino or Hispanic once. She was saying, American blacks have experienced actual racial discrimination, you have not. The impression I got, was a concept of the American nation as being, at its heart, a white majority and black minority, and then everyone else is a real minority, who can be OK if they assimilate culturally.

    I feel like that's a semi-viable way of thinking, in that it is at least based on America's current racial balance. Now, you also want to do something about left-wing Jewish power in America. I'm not at all sure what you could have in mind here. I suppose that as long as Trump and the Republicans stay on top, and anti-liberal (?) businesses and institutions are supported, then you have a chance of steadily eroding that power.

    Add to all that, economic nationalism and a halt to immigration... Is this a cultural and political program you would support? What would you do differently? I'm just trying to figure out what a genuine alt-right national agenda looks like.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us
     
    This.

    Citizenism was always a triple bank shot to keep whites as the majority of the population and to keep Anglo-Saxon culture and traditions as the backbone of society. It may have had a shot back in the 1980s or even as late as the 1990s, but it's certainly over now.

    People keep saying that whites can appeal to minorities' self-interest to back Citizenism. Baloney. When has that ever happened over a long period of time in a multi-racial society? The world is tribal. People will side with their corrupt elites before they'll side with honest non-tribe members. Look at blacks and Hispanics.

    All people but whites vote by tribe in a multi-racial society, and that may change here over time as even SJWs start to notice that other groups will never like them. Ripping on others because they may not have a better soluation doesn't change the fact that Citizenism won't work. Citizenism is not the least worst solution. It's a solution that won't work. Period. So stop acting as though it's still alive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218


    The best that I could see is a United States of reasonably equal groups gingerly working together. Every tribe to do the best for their own but realizing that pushing things too far could cause trouble. That's a somewhat workable solution.
    , @Jack D

    it’s crystal clear we can’t (and won’t) share a nation with them
     
    Who is this "we" that you speak of?

    Seriously, what's the plan? Expulsion? Extermination? Pitchforks? Marching with Tiki torches? Does the President's daughter and her family have to go too? I don't think POTUS will be too happy about that.
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  19. The Craw says:
    @Flip
    It sounds like he is basically in agreement with Kevin MacDonald who wrote "A People That Shall Dwell Alone: Judaism as a Group Evolutionary Strategy."

    But that can’t be right … MacDonald is an anti-semite!

    Read More
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  20. J.Ross says: • Website
    @AKAHorace
    Unrelated but of interest:


    https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-antifa-data-mining/?mbid=BottomRelatedStories

    This is absolutely stunning. This totally bears out what another commenter was just saying about the “real Nazis.” The SPLC is brought in at every juncture. Antifa is as openly lionized and apologized for. The woman doesn’t appear to have any unique computer skills in terms of the main action of the story, she’s compiling and maintaining a blacklist.
    This is why a civil war is looming. What reconciliation are you going to seek with a person who wants you fired, beaten, homeless, and therefore suicidal, and who furthermore has organizational and governmental means of trying to bring that about? This person isn’t trying to put her own message out there, she’s punishing people whose message she disagrees with.

    Read More
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  21. Luke Lea says:
    @J.Ross
    Wrong and dangerously so. A lot of these people have degrees in "history." The issue is that they flagrantly lie, especially on pet topics, especially when speaking to animals. They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable, they think that everything is a negotiation, that every time they open their mouths is a separate episode suffering no obligations from any previous claims. But it's completely wrong to say that they know nothing.

    re: a lot of these people have a degree in “history”

    Having a degree in “history” is not the same as knowing a lot about history. It only means they know a lot about a little bit of history.

    Read More
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  22. Sunbeam says:
    @Dmitry

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period - and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

    “Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.”

    Well put.

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    See, I think this is a stupid statement. Made by someone who hasn’t thought things through.

    My mind tells me that a world is possible where someone will beat your head in, and take your stuff – not because of the color of your skin, not because of your religion, but simply because you have “stuff” and you are not in their group.

    And they won’t have the slightest pang of conscience, or frankly give the whole thing a second thought.

    People vote with their feet. My perception is not many Jews want to live in countries with a lot of diversity. They could move to Brazil, to Columbia, to Peru any time they wanted. Yet the bulk of them seem to want to live in developed, currently white, western countries. No Hait, no Dominican Republic. It’s all Canada, France, England, Italy, all the way down.

    So why the hell do they want to turn this place into Brazil Norte? Is it some kind of “this time it’ll work” kind of thing?

    Because from where I sit culture and institutions are all that separate us from some kind of chaotic period, where all kind of nasty things can come about. Not in the sense of having concentration camps, but in the sense of having an ever present fear of being kidnapped and held for ransom, from getting killed by a random mugger, heck from getting a phone call that your business was looted and burned in rioting.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    bravo. see my comment below (or above, wherever it falls,...if you want.
    , @Anonymous
    Jews like everyone else want to live where it is comfortable. Life in the United States, if you have a 110+ IQ and a family support structure, is cushy as compared to anywhere else. Jews almost all get college degrees either in useful subjects or from elite schools and that combined with ethnic nepotism gets them a comfortable job.

    Sure they could make aliyah and go to Israel, but Israel is a hot desert garrison state with universal military service. Most jobs pay poorly there as opposed to New York or LA jobs Jews tend to get.

    Or yes, they could go to a genuinely diverse place. Jobs pay less well than in Israel and unlike the US or Western Europe, many of the denizens there don't like Jews and will say so to your face. Occasionally they may act on their feelings.

    So the US it is for so many Jews. Like Muslims, they feel guilty about supporting something so alien to them as US society is. But where Muslims blow stuff up or kill people in spastic criminal events, Jews get in positions of power and argue for policies that will undermine their own comfortable existence but which are good for keeping the tribe unified and fighting. That these policies, often called tikkum olan ("repairing the world", in the sense that building the goofiest looking rat rod imaginable out of a noble classic antique car can be said to be 'repairing'it) are poisonous to the host society is irrelevant.

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  23. Divide and conquer. It has worked pretty well for “God’s Chosen people” up to this point. It is up to white Gentiles whether to let allow it to continue to succeed.

    Read More
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  24. Polynices says:

    Freaking Shapiro can’t stop lying: “I left Breitbart in March 2016 due to differences regarding our coverage of the presidential campaign”… um, no. He left Breitbart after he supported Michelle Fields in her attempted hoax against Trump’s then campaign manager. She was obviously lying and got caught and he got booted because he’d tried to help her derail Trump’s campaign.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    He gives me the creeps. He can not be trusted. Trump was asked to run; he won; now it has become like any other fight, everyday, for any president.

    Spoilers and turncoats are the loudest and most obnoxious. The American public (today's stable geniuses) have tuned out the current spoilers, turncoats, liars, screamers, haters, outragers du jour. This fact (expressing your frustration at a president without being killed like in Stalin times) has always fascinated me. And, guys like Flake who say flakey things like Trump is like Stalin, will get their dumbasses handed to them, again, and again. I mean, it is sort of high comedy to me...how people who think they are sooo smart, say such laughable things - SNL has really missed the humor; they really missed an opportunity.
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  25. @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    tl;dr

    Read More
    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @anonymouslee
    Fair enough. Just something that needed to be said (fwiw Steve can glance at my post history to confirm I am not constantly harping on this particular subject)
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  26. @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    Yeah I don’t think citizenism can work; arguably it has been tried for several hundred years of US history and it failed; it devolved into empire. But for various reasons Steve can never go alt-right. Moses didn’t reach the promised land either.

    It’s always odd to see citizenists or constitutionalists parsing the exact meaning of some constitutional subparagraph or intent of the founders or whatever. I imagine this was what it was like watching the medieval scholasticists arguing about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Like, wrong framework guys.

    I’m not saying words and such aren’t important. Just that all the most important words are spelled with the letters C, T, A and G.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Liberty begins with L.
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  27. Lagertha says:

    Reply to Sunbeam: excellent analysis! I have also, since a child, wondered why Jews (powerful ones – I grew up in NYC & Jersey) so hate all the “deplorable” people in the states & in Europe?; my homeland…all the people who were pioneers/homesteaders.

    Why are they so obsessed with their uniqueness? – the whole Chosen People stuff? – I am Lutheran, but most of my friends, neighbors, don’t even know that. Could it be a panic that so many Jews (men, particularly) are marrying out of their religion?

    Jews somehow, pushing to fill this country up with refugees, migrants, Muslims, is so confusing in so many ways; so contrary to their ambitions and modus operandi – it is especially creepy now. If they fight for their minority status, now, and somehow believe they will still hang on to high status, well, a steam roller of immigrants from non-Jewish backgrounds will roll over them, or tax the successful ones (non-Jews included) to death, for time in immemorial.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jack ryan
    Jews and Muslims have long memories.

    Both remember the Muslim Arab Moor occupation of Spain that lasted....

    700 years.

    Jews and Muslims consider this to be a golden age.

    Jews were given the boot or put under the Spanish Inquisition in 1492 for basically taking the Muslim side, being tax collectors for the Muslim Moors, selling White girls in to sexual slavery to ME, Turkish Muslim buyers.

    The alliance between Saudi Sunni Islamists and American Lib Left Democrat/Zionists is best represented by the sham marriage of New York Mayor to be/not be because of sexual pervert texting

    Anthony Wiener and Hillary Clinton's (lesbian?) chief of Staff Huma Abedin - a strong case for birth control if there ever was one.

    Here's a photo of this match made in ME hell

    http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ap_anthony_weiner_presser_ll_130723_4x3_992.jpg
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  28. Lagertha says:
    @Sunbeam
    "Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war."

    Well put.

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    See, I think this is a stupid statement. Made by someone who hasn't thought things through.

    My mind tells me that a world is possible where someone will beat your head in, and take your stuff - not because of the color of your skin, not because of your religion, but simply because you have "stuff" and you are not in their group.

    And they won't have the slightest pang of conscience, or frankly give the whole thing a second thought.

    People vote with their feet. My perception is not many Jews want to live in countries with a lot of diversity. They could move to Brazil, to Columbia, to Peru any time they wanted. Yet the bulk of them seem to want to live in developed, currently white, western countries. No Hait, no Dominican Republic. It's all Canada, France, England, Italy, all the way down.

    So why the hell do they want to turn this place into Brazil Norte? Is it some kind of "this time it'll work" kind of thing?

    Because from where I sit culture and institutions are all that separate us from some kind of chaotic period, where all kind of nasty things can come about. Not in the sense of having concentration camps, but in the sense of having an ever present fear of being kidnapped and held for ransom, from getting killed by a random mugger, heck from getting a phone call that your business was looted and burned in rioting.

    bravo. see my comment below (or above, wherever it falls,…if you want.

    Read More
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  29. Lagertha says:
    @Polynices
    Freaking Shapiro can’t stop lying: “I left Breitbart in March 2016 due to differences regarding our coverage of the presidential campaign”... um, no. He left Breitbart after he supported Michelle Fields in her attempted hoax against Trump’s then campaign manager. She was obviously lying and got caught and he got booted because he’d tried to help her derail Trump’s campaign.

    He gives me the creeps. He can not be trusted. Trump was asked to run; he won; now it has become like any other fight, everyday, for any president.

    Spoilers and turncoats are the loudest and most obnoxious. The American public (today’s stable geniuses) have tuned out the current spoilers, turncoats, liars, screamers, haters, outragers du jour. This fact (expressing your frustration at a president without being killed like in Stalin times) has always fascinated me. And, guys like Flake who say flakey things like Trump is like Stalin, will get their dumbasses handed to them, again, and again. I mean, it is sort of high comedy to me…how people who think they are sooo smart, say such laughable things – SNL has really missed the humor; they really missed an opportunity.

    Read More
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  30. @Desiderius
    tl;dr

    Fair enough. Just something that needed to be said (fwiw Steve can glance at my post history to confirm I am not constantly harping on this particular subject)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    That's better.

    Brevity is the wit of the soul.
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  31. Whiskey says: • Website
    @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The “Jewish Question” immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there’s a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered … nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won’t follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won’t flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can’t even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve’s appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers — shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that’s a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Like all the jolly good fellows I drink my Whiskey clear!

    Hear, hear!
    , @Whitey Whiteman III
    It's afraid.
    , @Neuday
    I suspect a generational divide is at work. It really is possible to notice and be opposed to Jewish supremacy in our culture and institutions and also have no affinity for a German leader from 75 years ago who led his nation into ruin. It is possible to notice jewish patterns throughout history and not care a whit for Richard Spencer. It's quite likely that Steve/Jared Taylor/Derb/Whiskey are all on the boomer side of the aisle, and the JQ is just something that's not done. Many of the younger folk have no such sensitivities because we, I'm Gen-X, have left our youth a basket case of a country, primarily due to a tribe of people who've arrived here since 1880 and promoted alienation and dissent where community and nationhood once prevailed.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    The “Jewish Question” immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin.
     
    Of course! The solution is the mainstream right- the people who have been systematically failing. How could this go possibly wrong?

    What, Black people will just move away?
     
    How do you think segregation worked in the first place? How do you think borders are supposed to work? They involve men with guns using force.

    We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can’t even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.
     
    Yes, we have to operate based on the rules instituted by the left. After all, we know they set up the situation this way because they care so much about our welfare.

    Steve’s appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival.
     
    Spite doesn't exist. Envy doesn't exist. Tribalism doesn't exist. You face the same issue that liberals do- you can't convince all whites your beliefs are true, what makes you think that you can convince all non-whites? Appeals to self-interest mean the winning party becomes the one that can promise to loot the republic the most to provide gibs. Which means demonizing makers which gets us back to where we were in the first place.

    And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers — shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that’s a proven winning method in America?
     
    If your goal is to tell people what they want to hear, go ahead. Watch as slice by slice you lose because people do not want to hear hate-facts and those who are most skilled at lying win the day. Lying for power is leftism and it is a competition you cannot win.
    , @Pericles
    Thus spake the neo-con semite. Believe it if you will.
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  32. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @J.Ross
    Among the numerous disadvantages to letting Jews be your intellectual caste is that you must edit out half of everything they say. I didn't make it past the first paragraph. Yes, Ben, a significant number of Jews are far leftists, conflate that identity (except when an anti-Semite points it out), and frequently justify their politics, in terms of their Jewishness. And yes "alt-right" is relatively right (insofar as it is anything). And neither definition squabble really matters. No Somethingstein is breaking with the DNC because Ben explained a biblical passage differently than she understood it, and the idea that the alt-right are leftists is like Jonah Goldberg pointing out that Nazis (like the rest of the spectrum) were relatively leftist in many respects compared to today. If true, then meaningless.
    I predict that Shapiro is not capable of doing a good slam of this book because he'll be too busy in ownership disputes over its symbols. I shall drink something and try again.

    Did Ben Shapiro claim the alt-right were leftists in that review? I didn’t catch that, but when I went back to read it again to double check, I got paywalled.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I also had trouble with [dinosaur media not wanting people to be able to read their material]. And was that a self-activating advertisement for advertisements in elevators? However, his idea (to my earlier point) is that he gets to wear the Judaism hat and Weisman doesn't, and that he ought not to have to wear the alt-right hat -- if anyone should, it would be closer to someone like Israel-hating Weisman. Like I said, bickering over the ownership of symbols rather than coherent arguing. Meta-namecalling.
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  33. Moses says:
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.

    David Brooks’ son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what’s good for America we should listen.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.
     
    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

    I'm pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.

    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.

    The theory that they are 'double-thinking' - again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    They either think immigrants are wonderful, or they don't. In this case they are clearly in love with them and it's a kind of obsession.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.


    David Brooks’ son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what’s good for America we should listen.
     
    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.
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  34. Moses says:
    @Carol
    It seems like Jews don't care about Israel anymore. They don't identify with it so they see no contradiction.

    Quite change from the Jews of my youth.

    It seems like Jews don’t care about Israel anymore.

    Erm….ok.

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  35. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen
    Did Ben Shapiro claim the alt-right were leftists in that review? I didn't catch that, but when I went back to read it again to double check, I got paywalled.

    I also had trouble with [dinosaur media not wanting people to be able to read their material]. And was that a self-activating advertisement for advertisements in elevators? However, his idea (to my earlier point) is that he gets to wear the Judaism hat and Weisman doesn’t, and that he ought not to have to wear the alt-right hat — if anyone should, it would be closer to someone like Israel-hating Weisman. Like I said, bickering over the ownership of symbols rather than coherent arguing. Meta-namecalling.

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  36. Dmitry says:
    @Carol
    It seems like Jews don't care about Israel anymore. They don't identify with it so they see no contradiction.

    Quite change from the Jews of my youth.

    The non-religious ones will disappear in a few generations. Demographic trends are not on their side.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    The non-religious ones will disappear in a few generations. Demographic trends are not on their side.
     
    Athiests are made, not born. There is always some level of diffusion from belief to non-belief (and sometimes, in the other direction too). I don't believe that secular Jews are going to disappear.
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  37. J.Ross says: • Website

    Can you imagine Shapiro’s face if someone brought an Abigail pillow to one of his speaking engagements? The only thing better would be going in a convincing drag get-up as Michelle Fields and constantly falling down.

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  38. Whiskey says: • Website

    Let me add in the spirit of Friedrich Nietsche that if someone is doing something that appears to be against their self interest, like fasting, or donating money to religious works, what appears to be displays of highly moral behavior upon close examination are really just displays of … wait for it … WILL TO POWER.

    The faster displays his will, over himself and his desires, and his power thus over his own nature. The donater seeks favor from God for money now in return for salvation later.

    “Jews” who constantly belabor their Jewish morality for borderless worlds (and who are always liberal urban professional media people of Jewish descent but no real religious practice) are not demonstrating their moral superiority. They are expressing their WILL TO POWER in a class struggle. What do pretty much ALL urban professionals and particularly those in the media want? Regardless of religious affiliation which for 99.99% of them is really nothing*?

    They want the eradication of the middle and working classes and in particular those of “flyover” states since the only thing that is important is in NYC, DC, LA, and SF. Not even Seattle and Chicago nor even Austin TX qualify. As among the self-chosen by Providence. This is another neo-Calvinist heresy, the elect divinely selected and the damned among the great unwashed. Among other things it is particularly ugly as its based on CLASS resentments. Resentments that they are constrained in their absolute power over people, to impose the “right way” of thinking, acting, doing, living. Its the same resentments that drove the Red Guards, Pol Pots crew, the Jonestown People’s Temple, Red Brigades in Italy, Baader Meinhof gang in Germany, and Red Army in Japan. Or Shining Path leadership in Peru.

    They are all highly educated, but useless urbanites. From lesser nobility or classes in the most part, the near but not top upper classes. Bill Ayers but not George W. Bush. Abimael Guzman but not JFK Jr. They feel their education, training, good grades, and such should allow them to command men but in a profoundly demilitarized society the exhibit the Slave Morality of viewing power (unless wielded by them) as bad and their main oppressors not those on the top they aim to replace but those in the middle whose social mores and constraints they rage against. And like the Nihilists in Russia, the various revolutionaries in France, the intellectuals raging against the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie they aim nothing less than an endless sex-violence orgy ala the Baader Meinhof gang or Pol Pot’s reign. It is a problem no Western society has solved save Israel** and not for the reason you think. Even Japan has had this problem consistently with various nihilists on the Left (Red Army Faction), Right (Mishima), and weirdo (Aum Shin Rykio).

    Am I saying there is not much difference between Ben Shapiro and say, David Koresh in aims, general approach to society, and their ideal state of affairs? Yes. Koresh just had the charisma and courage to pursue his ends and Shapiro lacks even that.

    *Almost everyone in the professional classes, and particularly in the media, has no religious practice at all as classically understood. If you don’t attend Church regularly, you are not a Christian. If you don’t attend Mass regularly you are not a Catholic. If you don’t attend Mosque regularly and adhere to the strict dietary and prayer rituals and demands you are not a Muslim. And if you don’t attend a Synagoge regularly and adhere to all the rituals including dietary and not working the Sabbath you are not a Jew. They *DO* have a religion, it is just not Islam, nor Judaism, nor Christianity. It is the ugly gutter Volk Religion of the Elites — PC and saintly Black or Muslim redeemers and original sin of working and middle class Whites.

    **Israel alone has solved the problem of what to do with elites who want to rule like some Medieval Lord. They draft them. And they give them weapons. Afterwards, an astonishing amount of Israeli men are armed as a matter of course with crazed Muslims intent on killing them. This simple fact: universal service nearly among the non Ultra Orthodox, and arming men in response to guerrilla style attacks, has given power, real power, the power of life or death, to ordinary men who have their desires thus sated. Unlike American Jews whose only power is being rude to someone on the Internet and shouting Anti-Semitism, Israeli Jews have had real power. Including what’s in their holster at work, on the bus, in the pizza parlor. This among other things is why American Urban Professional Jews are so intent on disarming White flyover rural people and their cousin Shecky who owns a jewelry store in Queens. Its because Cousin Shecky and flyover rural people have real power. A gun *IS* power. Not a magic wand that will do whatever you ask — but a dangerous weapon giving any who holds it and trains with it killing power.

    And that the nebbishy Last Man cannot abide.

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    • Replies: @istevefan

    A gun *IS* power. Not a magic wand that will do whatever you ask — but a dangerous weapon giving any who holds it and trains with it killing power.
     
    Mao said something along the lines of 'power flows from the barrel of a gun". But is that the only way? I'd say modern day USA and Europe suggests power flows from something else. Guns have not been used to browbeat the populations of those nations into accepting their displacement by foreign mobs.

    In fact in the USA those opposing the policies of the ruling elite have plenty of guns and it has done them little to no good in stemming the tide of change sweeping the USA. Those unarmed urbanites you mention have done a heck of a number on us, the armed people of America.

    There is an old saying that the pen is mightier than the sword. I suppose that line can be rephrased for the modern age, but it seems essentially true in North American and Europe.

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  39. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.

    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren’t so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I’m guessing………….No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu’s planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599

    “American Jewish protests against the planned deportation have been relatively muted and confined to Jewish groups that are less reluctant to criticize the Israeli government on policy issues. A recent exchange with Israel’s Foreign Ministry on the matter was signed by HIAS, the lead Jewish immigration advocacy group, leaders of the Reform movement, the National Council of Jewish Women and J Street, the liberal Middle East policy group, among other groups.

    Even these groups, fighting what they see as threats to immigrants and minorities in the era of President Donald Trump, lack the bandwidth to make this a priority issue.

    “The American Jewish community can be moved on these issues,” said Libby Lenkinski, the vice president for public engagement for the New Israel Fund, which funds groups that assist the African refugees in Israel. “But between that and making it a cause celebre? There’s some distance.”

    “We’re obviously fighting on a lot of fronts right now for fairness and justice for refugees,” said Melanie Nezer, the vice president for public affairs at HIAS. “It would be nice to have one problem – we don’t.”

    In any event, even if there are jewish groups that unhypocritically advocate the same crazy stuff for Israel that they wish on the US, that doesn’t mean their advocacy here is of no consequence, or that I shouldn’t take notice of it.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren’t so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I’m guessing………….No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu’s planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:
     

    Jewish or not. They are still foreigners to Israel - sympathetic foreigners, but still not people who have to live with the consequences.

    So the fact they are protesting against a minor, internal policy issue happening in a country they don't live in is already a bit insane.

    This doesn't create a good image of American Jewish politics with the ordinary public in Israel. On the other hand, the liberal elites in Israel see them as a kind of role-model to emulate.

    However, these statements by American Jewish groups will nowadays have little influence on policy in Israel, whereas in the 1990s they might have - before the country's own liberal elite fell out of favour.

    One thing about Israel, is that Trump style politics has already been going on in the Likud Party for a decade or so. People like Miri Regev are behaving like total clowns, but getting more and more popular, as they have the ability to enrage the same kind of pretentious demographics that Trump enrages in the United States.

    , @istevefan

    .No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.
     
    This is similar to when a member of Congress from a highly competitive district gets to vote against their party's position on a particular issue because the party knows they already have enough votes. So they allow a particular member to publicly go against them knowing, a) it won't affect the outcome, and b) it will help that member in a tough reelection campaign.
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  40. 3g4me says:
    @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    @15 anonymouslee: “Citizenism died on the vine.”

    This. Since any number of my comments haven’t met with Steve’s approval (his blog, his rules, but it’s still irritating), perhaps he will allow me to fully endorse yours. Steve is earnest in his desire for moderation and racially/ethnically blind citizenism, but refuses to see the impossibility of a single nation somehow shared by those who insist on being both special and equal, and those who want a homogenous homeland. Between those who want to see history and reality as things really were and are, and those who worship at the altar of their ancestors’ stories of eternal grievance.

    ” You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don’t get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you’re in YOUR twilight.”

    Well said. I want a future for my sons. I want a future for White children that does not involve them being enslaved by guilt or grievance or those who feel the future of the nation of their birthright is a contest to be won by whichever group can outshout or outmaneuver the settlers and their posterity. The hell with “may the best man win.” This isn’t a game. The “best man” is the man who shares my core values and beliefs, not the stranger who thinks he’s more clever or more deserving. The stakes are literally an ethnocentric future or utter extinction.

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  41. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dmitry
    The non-religious ones will disappear in a few generations. Demographic trends are not on their side.

    The non-religious ones will disappear in a few generations. Demographic trends are not on their side.

    Athiests are made, not born. There is always some level of diffusion from belief to non-belief (and sometimes, in the other direction too). I don’t believe that secular Jews are going to disappear.

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  42. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Jewish disapora in France, Netherlands, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Hungary, and etc surely felt super-safe and secure when Nazis destroyed all borders and created a Nazi European Union where they could sink their claws into anyone within their empire.

    Lesson from WWII surely. Demise of national borders in WWII was the greatest blessing for Jews. When France and USSR had secure borders, Jews were helpless. But when the borders came crashing down with Nazi invasion, Jews were safer than ever before.

    But, I guess the holocaust happened because Nazis re-instituted borders across Europe.

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  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Amasius
    Meanwhile in Israel they're literally rounding up Africans utilizing in part a civilian deportation force, paying participants 30,000 shekels each.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-to-pay-volunteers-9k-for-asylum-seeker-expulsion-campaign-1.5730333

    But can the dam of (((hypocrisy))) hold forever?

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  44. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    New Narrative.

    The Romans smashing Jewish borders & Jerusalem and scattering Jews to the winds was a great blessing than a tragedy. Whoever needed borders?

    But then… why did Jews insist on regaining Palestine and erecting borders to have their own nation?

    Pretzel logic here.

    Maybe from the perspective of those who surf on the waves imperialism, breakdown of borders is a great fortune. Jews could ride on the waves of Spanish, French, and British imperialism. Later on the waves of Soviet and American imperialism. Lots of opportunities.
    But what about the natives who got crushed by those waves? Who cares about those losers?

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  45. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sunbeam
    "Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war."

    Well put.

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    See, I think this is a stupid statement. Made by someone who hasn't thought things through.

    My mind tells me that a world is possible where someone will beat your head in, and take your stuff - not because of the color of your skin, not because of your religion, but simply because you have "stuff" and you are not in their group.

    And they won't have the slightest pang of conscience, or frankly give the whole thing a second thought.

    People vote with their feet. My perception is not many Jews want to live in countries with a lot of diversity. They could move to Brazil, to Columbia, to Peru any time they wanted. Yet the bulk of them seem to want to live in developed, currently white, western countries. No Hait, no Dominican Republic. It's all Canada, France, England, Italy, all the way down.

    So why the hell do they want to turn this place into Brazil Norte? Is it some kind of "this time it'll work" kind of thing?

    Because from where I sit culture and institutions are all that separate us from some kind of chaotic period, where all kind of nasty things can come about. Not in the sense of having concentration camps, but in the sense of having an ever present fear of being kidnapped and held for ransom, from getting killed by a random mugger, heck from getting a phone call that your business was looted and burned in rioting.

    Jews like everyone else want to live where it is comfortable. Life in the United States, if you have a 110+ IQ and a family support structure, is cushy as compared to anywhere else. Jews almost all get college degrees either in useful subjects or from elite schools and that combined with ethnic nepotism gets them a comfortable job.

    Sure they could make aliyah and go to Israel, but Israel is a hot desert garrison state with universal military service. Most jobs pay poorly there as opposed to New York or LA jobs Jews tend to get.

    Or yes, they could go to a genuinely diverse place. Jobs pay less well than in Israel and unlike the US or Western Europe, many of the denizens there don’t like Jews and will say so to your face. Occasionally they may act on their feelings.

    So the US it is for so many Jews. Like Muslims, they feel guilty about supporting something so alien to them as US society is. But where Muslims blow stuff up or kill people in spastic criminal events, Jews get in positions of power and argue for policies that will undermine their own comfortable existence but which are good for keeping the tribe unified and fighting. That these policies, often called tikkum olan (“repairing the world”, in the sense that building the goofiest looking rat rod imaginable out of a noble classic antique car can be said to be ‘repairing’it) are poisonous to the host society is irrelevant.

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  46. @SimpleSong
    Yeah I don't think citizenism can work; arguably it has been tried for several hundred years of US history and it failed; it devolved into empire. But for various reasons Steve can never go alt-right. Moses didn't reach the promised land either.

    It's always odd to see citizenists or constitutionalists parsing the exact meaning of some constitutional subparagraph or intent of the founders or whatever. I imagine this was what it was like watching the medieval scholasticists arguing about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Like, wrong framework guys.

    I'm not saying words and such aren't important. Just that all the most important words are spelled with the letters C, T, A and G.

    Liberty begins with L.

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    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    Liberty, freedom of speech, etc., are only possible if the populace has the set of behavioral characteristics that allow them to flourish. Those behavioral characteristics are largely hereditary. Writing a bill of rights into the Liberian or Congolese or Haitian constitution will do exactly nothing to improve the state of those societies because the populace is unfit. The Iraq debacle was an illustration of this.

    Now obviously the existence of a populace with these behavioral characteristics is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for liberty to flourish. The examples of East and West Germany, North and South Korea, etc., show this--a good populace can still end up in a terrible situation due to a bad regime. But a good regime or legal framework cannot ever fix a bad populace.

    To be more specific populations need:

    Impulse control--if you say something that makes me angry, I don't immediately react with violence. Without this free speech is impossible in practice. Impulse control is largely hereditary.

    Novelty seeking--also a hereditary personality trait. Individuals who are novelty seeking are more likely to accept a degree of political pluralism and nonconformity, essential for liberty as well as scientific and technological advancement.

    Conscientiousness--also a hereditary personality trait. In order to have a functional nation of laws, individuals must follow laws even when enforcement is not always practical or possible. Conscientious individuals are likelier to do this. Without enough conscientious individuals in a society the only two options are anarchy or a police state. For example Iraq, Syria.

    Intelligence--also hereditary. A society of dummies will be unable to meet its basic needs for food, sanitation, healthcare, etc., and will become a Hobbesian hellhole; higher level values are irrelevant when you can't feed or clothe yourself.

    The general concept of 'liberty' and representative democracy work only in certain populations that have particular genetic characteristics. These are predominantly European, as well as East Asian.
    The important letters are C, T, A, and G (the four DNA base pairs.) If you wish to protect liberty, protect the people that make it possible.

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  47. @anonymouslee
    Fair enough. Just something that needed to be said (fwiw Steve can glance at my post history to confirm I am not constantly harping on this particular subject)

    That’s better.

    Brevity is the wit of the soul.

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    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    (cringe)

    "Brevity is the soul of wit.": common aphorism

    "Brevity is the wit of the soul.": word salad

    Was that short enough?

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  48. @Whiskey
    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The "Jewish Question" immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there's a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered ... nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won't follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won't flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can't even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve's appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers -- shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that's a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.

    Like all the jolly good fellows I drink my Whiskey clear!

    Hear, hear!

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yep that may be the best bit of strong spirit I've read.
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  49. @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    I don’t think Steve is trying to remind Jews of anything. I think he’s trying to help some of us figure something out. Apparently you’ve already got it figured out. If so, please school me on why Jews clearly see Whites as the enemy when the evidence here and elsewhere indicates that many Jews do not see Whites as the enemy. Please school me on the fundamental ideological differences between Old Testament Jews and Old Testament Crackers. Please identify whether this statement comes from a Jew or White American: “I just want to be left alone.”

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    No GOP Presidential candidate has won a majority of the Jewish vote since the creating of exit polling.

    No Dem presidential candidate has won a majority of the white male vote since 1964.

    Most evidence seems to indicate that about one-third of Jews are vaguely patriotic, and at least one-half are virulently hostile to the traditional American majority. The rates of enlistment in the military by their community are quite telling.

    If you are Jewish and patriotic, you need to spend zero energy on arguing with the Right. You need to be calling out you co-religionists for supporting the odious Chuck Schumer & co. Deeds, not words, will convince the doubters.
    , @J.Ross
    The Jews who do not see whites as the enemy are the Jews who do not have a column in the New York Times, a show on NPR, a university chair, a billion-dollar foundation, or an office in the State Department.
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  50. @Forbes

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Somehow Israel didn't get the memo that Weisman cribs from...

    Turn back the clock of history a little bit more and it becomes even more obvious.

    Had the Jews been more effective at keeping the Romans out, they might have never had to leave the Levant.

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  51. @Desiderius
    That's better.

    Brevity is the wit of the soul.

    (cringe)

    “Brevity is the soul of wit.”: common aphorism

    “Brevity is the wit of the soul.”: word salad

    Was that short enough?

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Nope.
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  52. @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse.

    Wrong. Citizenism has not failed. It has never been tried, never been pushed.

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    • Replies: @bomag
    I agree here.

    Places that work do so based on some form of citizenism: various ethnic enclaves; Israel, for that matter; historic Europe; etc.
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  53. Escher says:
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    “Grave concerns” is somewhat different from the language they use while referring to Trump’s policies.

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  54. istevefan says:
    @Whiskey
    Let me add in the spirit of Friedrich Nietsche that if someone is doing something that appears to be against their self interest, like fasting, or donating money to religious works, what appears to be displays of highly moral behavior upon close examination are really just displays of ... wait for it ... WILL TO POWER.

    The faster displays his will, over himself and his desires, and his power thus over his own nature. The donater seeks favor from God for money now in return for salvation later.

    "Jews" who constantly belabor their Jewish morality for borderless worlds (and who are always liberal urban professional media people of Jewish descent but no real religious practice) are not demonstrating their moral superiority. They are expressing their WILL TO POWER in a class struggle. What do pretty much ALL urban professionals and particularly those in the media want? Regardless of religious affiliation which for 99.99% of them is really nothing*?

    They want the eradication of the middle and working classes and in particular those of "flyover" states since the only thing that is important is in NYC, DC, LA, and SF. Not even Seattle and Chicago nor even Austin TX qualify. As among the self-chosen by Providence. This is another neo-Calvinist heresy, the elect divinely selected and the damned among the great unwashed. Among other things it is particularly ugly as its based on CLASS resentments. Resentments that they are constrained in their absolute power over people, to impose the "right way" of thinking, acting, doing, living. Its the same resentments that drove the Red Guards, Pol Pots crew, the Jonestown People's Temple, Red Brigades in Italy, Baader Meinhof gang in Germany, and Red Army in Japan. Or Shining Path leadership in Peru.

    They are all highly educated, but useless urbanites. From lesser nobility or classes in the most part, the near but not top upper classes. Bill Ayers but not George W. Bush. Abimael Guzman but not JFK Jr. They feel their education, training, good grades, and such should allow them to command men but in a profoundly demilitarized society the exhibit the Slave Morality of viewing power (unless wielded by them) as bad and their main oppressors not those on the top they aim to replace but those in the middle whose social mores and constraints they rage against. And like the Nihilists in Russia, the various revolutionaries in France, the intellectuals raging against the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie they aim nothing less than an endless sex-violence orgy ala the Baader Meinhof gang or Pol Pot's reign. It is a problem no Western society has solved save Israel** and not for the reason you think. Even Japan has had this problem consistently with various nihilists on the Left (Red Army Faction), Right (Mishima), and weirdo (Aum Shin Rykio).

    Am I saying there is not much difference between Ben Shapiro and say, David Koresh in aims, general approach to society, and their ideal state of affairs? Yes. Koresh just had the charisma and courage to pursue his ends and Shapiro lacks even that.

    *Almost everyone in the professional classes, and particularly in the media, has no religious practice at all as classically understood. If you don't attend Church regularly, you are not a Christian. If you don't attend Mass regularly you are not a Catholic. If you don't attend Mosque regularly and adhere to the strict dietary and prayer rituals and demands you are not a Muslim. And if you don't attend a Synagoge regularly and adhere to all the rituals including dietary and not working the Sabbath you are not a Jew. They *DO* have a religion, it is just not Islam, nor Judaism, nor Christianity. It is the ugly gutter Volk Religion of the Elites -- PC and saintly Black or Muslim redeemers and original sin of working and middle class Whites.

    **Israel alone has solved the problem of what to do with elites who want to rule like some Medieval Lord. They draft them. And they give them weapons. Afterwards, an astonishing amount of Israeli men are armed as a matter of course with crazed Muslims intent on killing them. This simple fact: universal service nearly among the non Ultra Orthodox, and arming men in response to guerrilla style attacks, has given power, real power, the power of life or death, to ordinary men who have their desires thus sated. Unlike American Jews whose only power is being rude to someone on the Internet and shouting Anti-Semitism, Israeli Jews have had real power. Including what's in their holster at work, on the bus, in the pizza parlor. This among other things is why American Urban Professional Jews are so intent on disarming White flyover rural people and their cousin Shecky who owns a jewelry store in Queens. Its because Cousin Shecky and flyover rural people have real power. A gun *IS* power. Not a magic wand that will do whatever you ask -- but a dangerous weapon giving any who holds it and trains with it killing power.

    And that the nebbishy Last Man cannot abide.

    A gun *IS* power. Not a magic wand that will do whatever you ask — but a dangerous weapon giving any who holds it and trains with it killing power.

    Mao said something along the lines of ‘power flows from the barrel of a gun”. But is that the only way? I’d say modern day USA and Europe suggests power flows from something else. Guns have not been used to browbeat the populations of those nations into accepting their displacement by foreign mobs.

    In fact in the USA those opposing the policies of the ruling elite have plenty of guns and it has done them little to no good in stemming the tide of change sweeping the USA. Those unarmed urbanites you mention have done a heck of a number on us, the armed people of America.

    There is an old saying that the pen is mightier than the sword. I suppose that line can be rephrased for the modern age, but it seems essentially true in North American and Europe.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's true wherever the State, the MSM, and giant social-media conglomerates control what people see, hear, and ultimately think. No gun has ever been anywhere near as powerful as that.
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  55. rogue-one says:
    @J.Ross
    Wrong and dangerously so. A lot of these people have degrees in "history." The issue is that they flagrantly lie, especially on pet topics, especially when speaking to animals. They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable, they think that everything is a negotiation, that every time they open their mouths is a separate episode suffering no obligations from any previous claims. But it's completely wrong to say that they know nothing.

    Reminds me of Max Boot, the neo-conman. He knows a bit about military history but deliberately lies and misrepresents events to support his “invade the world, invite the world” ideas.

    He isn’t a buffoon, but he is a very effective liar.

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  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    This is 100% about running interference with respect to public opinion in the US and UK. They finally figured out (probably with help from people like some of us) how it might look. Nothing more than that.

    Of course, thus far the ‘compliant’ media in the USA is making it even easier for them by ignoring the issue. But this will be excellent ‘cover’ should someone take note of it.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    This is 100% about running interference with respect to public opinion in the US and UK. They finally figured out (probably with help from people like some of us) how it might look. Nothing more than that.

    Of course, thus far the ‘compliant’ media in the USA is making it even easier for them by ignoring the issue. But this will be excellent ‘cover’ should someone take note of it.
     

    The ADL has to think about its donors' (liberal Jews - many of whom follow 'with concern' events in Israeli politics) conscience. This is a 'charity' that depends on donations from wealthy liberals, and has effectively become a wing of the Democrat Party in the US.

    But in the case of Israel, there are very many liberals who genuinely want to keep all the illegal immigrants they can (the Supreme Court in Israel has been striking down every law encouraging them to leave, for the last 5 years). In Israel, educated people from upper-middle class demographics are often very passionately in favour of illegal immigrants. The rest of the public, not so much to put it mildly.

    Just take a look at the behaviour of the Supreme Court judges in Israel, who write articles about their role of advancing liberalism in the society.

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  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    Like all the jolly good fellows I drink my Whiskey clear!

    Hear, hear!

    Yep that may be the best bit of strong spirit I’ve read.

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  58. helena says:

    “There is an old saying that the pen is mightier than the sword. I suppose that line can be rephrased for the modern age, but it seems essentially true in North American and Europe.”

    We’re not even that far from, ‘you lookin’ at me?’.

    I remember getting a visa in India to go to Nepal and the hippy in front of me in the queue told me not to look the official in the eye when presenting my papers.

    And somehow the UK has paid 45mn for a picture of an invading army that led to 300yrs of serfdom. Do Amerindians pay for pictures of the British arriving?

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  59. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    A gun *IS* power. Not a magic wand that will do whatever you ask — but a dangerous weapon giving any who holds it and trains with it killing power.
     
    Mao said something along the lines of 'power flows from the barrel of a gun". But is that the only way? I'd say modern day USA and Europe suggests power flows from something else. Guns have not been used to browbeat the populations of those nations into accepting their displacement by foreign mobs.

    In fact in the USA those opposing the policies of the ruling elite have plenty of guns and it has done them little to no good in stemming the tide of change sweeping the USA. Those unarmed urbanites you mention have done a heck of a number on us, the armed people of America.

    There is an old saying that the pen is mightier than the sword. I suppose that line can be rephrased for the modern age, but it seems essentially true in North American and Europe.

    It’s true wherever the State, the MSM, and giant social-media conglomerates control what people see, hear, and ultimately think. No gun has ever been anywhere near as powerful as that.

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  60. Commentary – am I right that’s a Jewish neocon magazine? Shapiro is aligned with the neocons now?

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Shapiro is much more associated and aligned with Ted Cruz and other hard right evangelicals than with the NY-DC neocon group. He commonly represents conservative evangelical groups and individuals in court on free speech and home schooling issues.

    He wrote this in Commentary to discourage neocons from buying the book. His normal medium is talk radio and his column syndicated to a lot of small town newspapers. But they were unlikely to be interested in such a book.
    , @anonymouslee
    the alt-lite mask has come off and they've been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise.

    it's not for no reason the alt right is more polarizing than people like Steve would want. certain choices are not choices at all but thrust upon us, hence the bemusement at someone like Jared Taylor, who is putatively white nationalist.

    Steve Sailer, like America before Trump, is making terrible deals and the world is laughing. He begins by groveling and conceding everything to people who hate him and they end by giving him nothing but demonization in exile. No thanks, Steve, we'd rather you not negotiate on our behalf.

    He's being played for a fool and I cannot believe he doesn't see the irony in his exemplifying a characteristic he routinely ridicules in others. That is, Steve wants it to be one way but it's the other way. Like an open borders advocate who ignores the actual consequences of their policies by self-righteously claiming anyone *can* become a good American citizen, Steve insists over and over that the mainstream is supposed to play nice and treat him and his views with respect. I happen to think truth and knowledge are good and that there is no honor in denying reality to insist on how you want the world to work.

    Cucking doesn't work, and Steve has been perspicacious in seeing and identifying this flaw in others. Denying reality doesn't make it go away but causes more problems than it solves, and Steve has done yeoman's work in exposing the dominant narrative to sunlight.

    But in the end Steve can't stop himself from plugging his ears and walking blindfolded down the primrose path, a useful idiot for those who despise him. Cue "Wouldn't It Be Nice" playing over a montage of what's happened to Detroit or South Central LA over the course of a baby boomer's life, fade into it playing out of a boomer's computer as he starts to type, "I am for all Americans, regardless of ethnicity, becoming model citizens..." and end with the boomer looking out the window to the sprinklers turning on in the golf course of his gated community.

    For any of you out there who share Steve's tragic flaw, please consider coming in from the cold and joining us. It's time to become a man and leave childish things behind, like stamping your feet or clutching your pearls about how you're not comfortable with being explicitly white and discriminatory. Stop the madness of running away to the micro-whitopias of your mind or suburb and help us take back the real world. The time for planting gardens as the forest fire rages toward us is over. It doesn't matter if it's the most comfortable path--in fact it's not a coincidence since NW European orientation on this is precisely why were being hoodwinked and destroyed--because its the only path we have.
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  61. Lot says:
    @J.Ross
    Wrong and dangerously so. A lot of these people have degrees in "history." The issue is that they flagrantly lie, especially on pet topics, especially when speaking to animals. They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable, they think that everything is a negotiation, that every time they open their mouths is a separate episode suffering no obligations from any previous claims. But it's completely wrong to say that they know nothing.

    “They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable”

    Nor did Plato, Hume, Bohr and Heisenberg. But you know better!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    I'm not sure Plato's eidoi or Hume's empiricism can be summed up as "they do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable." Certainly not Plato, who countered this very position as articulated by Gorgias.

    In my reading, 20th century physicists' position on "reality" tended more toward the mystical: not a denial of "reality" but a deep humility about any individual human's knowing its deepest workings. And, of course, they were talking about physics, not politics or morality or social policy. Owen Barfield's work offers the best humanistic treatment of the philosophical musings of 20th century physicists. He accepted that common-sense "reality" was not what it appeared, but he was still a crusty old Tory and high church Anglican who, like his friend C.S. Lewis, was not thrilled by the social engineering of the 1950s and 60s.

    Indeed, if we cannot know objective reality, the last thing we as a a species should be doing is engineering society according to our limited knowledge.

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  62. @J.Ross
    Among the numerous disadvantages to letting Jews be your intellectual caste is that you must edit out half of everything they say. I didn't make it past the first paragraph. Yes, Ben, a significant number of Jews are far leftists, conflate that identity (except when an anti-Semite points it out), and frequently justify their politics, in terms of their Jewishness. And yes "alt-right" is relatively right (insofar as it is anything). And neither definition squabble really matters. No Somethingstein is breaking with the DNC because Ben explained a biblical passage differently than she understood it, and the idea that the alt-right are leftists is like Jonah Goldberg pointing out that Nazis (like the rest of the spectrum) were relatively leftist in many respects compared to today. If true, then meaningless.
    I predict that Shapiro is not capable of doing a good slam of this book because he'll be too busy in ownership disputes over its symbols. I shall drink something and try again.

    Why “predict” when you can simply click the link and read for yourself what Shapiro says?

    And here’s a little inconvenient truth for all the commenters who, instead of clicking through and reading the articles chose to focus on the “money shot” in Steve’s synopsis to beat the dead horse about Israel’s borders:

    Y’all are guilty of the exact same intellectual laziness and lack of meaningful insight that results in the Weismans of the world and their ilk to who come to think the way they do.

    People who rely on slogans to form their “opinions” rarely if ever have anything of substance to add to a conversation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I did (see upthread). Predictions let us check what we know. For example, you predicted that I did not click through, but did not check your own prediction.
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  63. @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    What is the alternative ideal and the plan for realizing it? What is to be the concept of American nationhood?

    I’ll start with Ann Coulter. I saw her in an exchange with a Latino or Hispanic once. She was saying, American blacks have experienced actual racial discrimination, you have not. The impression I got, was a concept of the American nation as being, at its heart, a white majority and black minority, and then everyone else is a real minority, who can be OK if they assimilate culturally.

    I feel like that’s a semi-viable way of thinking, in that it is at least based on America’s current racial balance. Now, you also want to do something about left-wing Jewish power in America. I’m not at all sure what you could have in mind here. I suppose that as long as Trump and the Republicans stay on top, and anti-liberal (?) businesses and institutions are supported, then you have a chance of steadily eroding that power.

    Add to all that, economic nationalism and a halt to immigration… Is this a cultural and political program you would support? What would you do differently? I’m just trying to figure out what a genuine alt-right national agenda looks like.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymouslee
    What did Steve say Reagan said about the Cold War?

    The idea is that we win and they lose.


    Mexicans are going back. Blacks can leave or perhaps stay under apartheid. No political enfranchisement or welfare, though, so they'll leave.

    People talk about it being impossible to make people leave but that's a joke. They get here easily enough in the first place and they can walk out the exact same way. It will take relatively minor incentives and that's it.

    The once and future America is a free republic on the North American continent for a European people, a citizenry and its posterity. It's not at all hard to see what the idea is.


    The plan for realizing it is simple: we become the political movement for young white men, some of whom right now are being born prisoners in their own country. Everyone else in this country is living off the backs of and at the pleasure of white men. They will find that out with our backs against the wall.

    , @Pericles

    She was saying, American blacks have experienced actual racial discrimination, you have not.

     

    For example, once when Jamarcus was robbing two whites, they shied back and looked terrified. That was quite hurtful.
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  64. Amasius says:
    @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/JGreenblattADL/status/953659367550746625

    Meanwhile in Israel they’re literally rounding up Africans utilizing in part a civilian deportation force, paying participants 30,000 shekels each.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-to-pay-volunteers-9k-for-asylum-seeker-expulsion-campaign-1.5730333

    But can the dam of (((hypocrisy))) hold forever?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    I don't always think it is hypocrisy.

    Hypocrisy is populary imagined as "saying one thing, and doing another". What the charge actually represents is "claiming values that you do not actually hold". This isn't a mere semantic difference, the former represents inconsistency and a failure to live up to your values. The latter is the true sting of the charge.

    Most of the Jewish community genuinely believe in a double standard, few actually claim to be universalist liberals.

    The "fellow white person" trick, however, is obvious hypocrisy.
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  65. Lot says:
    @Simon in London
    Commentary - am I right that's a Jewish neocon magazine? Shapiro is aligned with the neocons now?

    Shapiro is much more associated and aligned with Ted Cruz and other hard right evangelicals than with the NY-DC neocon group. He commonly represents conservative evangelical groups and individuals in court on free speech and home schooling issues.

    He wrote this in Commentary to discourage neocons from buying the book. His normal medium is talk radio and his column syndicated to a lot of small town newspapers. But they were unlikely to be interested in such a book.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Shapiro is much more associated and aligned with Ted Cruz and other hard right evangelicals than with the NY-DC neocon group. He commonly represents conservative evangelical groups and individuals in court on free speech and home schooling issues.
     
    Shapiro seems sensible on most issues.

    Apart from on foreign policy, where he seems to be quite illiterate. He was talking on one show I saw on youtube, about the importance of NATO defending Ukraine and the Baltics, and calling Putin a 'dictator' - he seemed to have zero understanding of the issues.

    , @Becky
    Shapiro views evangelicals as lemmings to exploit, the little talks he gives are to build up support and make money, that's what Robert Mercer always paid him to do
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  66. bomag says:
    @Opinionator
    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse.

    Wrong. Citizenism has not failed. It has never been tried, never been pushed.

    I agree here.

    Places that work do so based on some form of citizenism: various ethnic enclaves; Israel, for that matter; historic Europe; etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    The fact that citizenism is not permitted in the United States and comes under increasing attack whenever it is advocated is strong evidence that it in fact works and is powerful. They fear citizenism.
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  67. Ricky Vaughn [AKA "TBear"] says:

    Richard Spencer still has 16 more followers than Whisky lol

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  68. Maj. Kong says:
    @Neil Templeton
    I don't think Steve is trying to remind Jews of anything. I think he's trying to help some of us figure something out. Apparently you've already got it figured out. If so, please school me on why Jews clearly see Whites as the enemy when the evidence here and elsewhere indicates that many Jews do not see Whites as the enemy. Please school me on the fundamental ideological differences between Old Testament Jews and Old Testament Crackers. Please identify whether this statement comes from a Jew or White American: "I just want to be left alone."

    No GOP Presidential candidate has won a majority of the Jewish vote since the creating of exit polling.

    No Dem presidential candidate has won a majority of the white male vote since 1964.

    Most evidence seems to indicate that about one-third of Jews are vaguely patriotic, and at least one-half are virulently hostile to the traditional American majority. The rates of enlistment in the military by their community are quite telling.

    If you are Jewish and patriotic, you need to spend zero energy on arguing with the Right. You need to be calling out you co-religionists for supporting the odious Chuck Schumer & co. Deeds, not words, will convince the doubters.

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    • Agree: Mis(ter)Anthrope
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  69. bomag says:
    @AKAHorace
    Unrelated but of interest:


    https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-antifa-data-mining/?mbid=BottomRelatedStories

    antifa data mining

    Dreary stuff: left wing activists whose goal is to get people fired for their social/political views. Evil.

    There should be more push-back: injunctions; compensatory and punitive awards. If the political right had one tenth of the legal firepower of illegal aliens, we’d have a better country.

    “I loved the activist community,” she says, “and saying things we weren’t supposed to say.”

    Must be nice to be on the winning side of who-whom.

    The featured lady checked all the boxes: raised a conservative Christian; has rescue pets; works at a college; upset when Muslims are criticized; etc.

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  70. Maj. Kong says:
    @Amasius
    Meanwhile in Israel they're literally rounding up Africans utilizing in part a civilian deportation force, paying participants 30,000 shekels each.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-to-pay-volunteers-9k-for-asylum-seeker-expulsion-campaign-1.5730333

    But can the dam of (((hypocrisy))) hold forever?

    I don’t always think it is hypocrisy.

    Hypocrisy is populary imagined as “saying one thing, and doing another”. What the charge actually represents is “claiming values that you do not actually hold”. This isn’t a mere semantic difference, the former represents inconsistency and a failure to live up to your values. The latter is the true sting of the charge.

    Most of the Jewish community genuinely believe in a double standard, few actually claim to be universalist liberals.

    The “fellow white person” trick, however, is obvious hypocrisy.

    Read More
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  71. Maj. Kong says:
    @AKAHorace
    Unrelated but of interest:


    https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-antifa-data-mining/?mbid=BottomRelatedStories

    Read More
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  72. @Whiskey
    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The "Jewish Question" immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there's a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered ... nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won't follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won't flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can't even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve's appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers -- shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that's a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.

    It’s afraid.

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  73. When I encounter such loony ravings as this one coming from Weisman – I’m just bored. Too tired to write a comment…just linx to a few too long posts on the topic:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/chinese-science/#comment-2147669

    http://www.unz.com/article/jewish-leftist-activism-in-childrens-fiction/#comment-2149065

    http://www.unz.com/article/jewish-leftist-activism-in-childrens-fiction/#comment-2149645

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  74. @Lot
    "They do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable"

    Nor did Plato, Hume, Bohr and Heisenberg. But you know better!

    I’m not sure Plato’s eidoi or Hume’s empiricism can be summed up as “they do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable.” Certainly not Plato, who countered this very position as articulated by Gorgias.

    In my reading, 20th century physicists’ position on “reality” tended more toward the mystical: not a denial of “reality” but a deep humility about any individual human’s knowing its deepest workings. And, of course, they were talking about physics, not politics or morality or social policy. Owen Barfield’s work offers the best humanistic treatment of the philosophical musings of 20th century physicists. He accepted that common-sense “reality” was not what it appeared, but he was still a crusty old Tory and high church Anglican who, like his friend C.S. Lewis, was not thrilled by the social engineering of the 1950s and 60s.

    Indeed, if we cannot know objective reality, the last thing we as a a species should be doing is engineering society according to our limited knowledge.

    Read More
    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Epistemology is distinct from ontology.
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  75. @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us

    This.

    Citizenism was always a triple bank shot to keep whites as the majority of the population and to keep Anglo-Saxon culture and traditions as the backbone of society. It may have had a shot back in the 1980s or even as late as the 1990s, but it’s certainly over now.

    People keep saying that whites can appeal to minorities’ self-interest to back Citizenism. Baloney. When has that ever happened over a long period of time in a multi-racial society? The world is tribal. People will side with their corrupt elites before they’ll side with honest non-tribe members. Look at blacks and Hispanics.

    All people but whites vote by tribe in a multi-racial society, and that may change here over time as even SJWs start to notice that other groups will never like them. Ripping on others because they may not have a better soluation doesn’t change the fact that Citizenism won’t work. Citizenism is not the least worst solution. It’s a solution that won’t work. Period. So stop acting as though it’s still alive.

    The best that I could see is a United States of reasonably equal groups gingerly working together. Every tribe to do the best for their own but realizing that pushing things too far could cause trouble. That’s a somewhat workable solution.

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    • Replies: @anonymouslee
    I moved to the blackest part of America as an adult.

    You find out quickly that Lee Kuan Yews point is not idle speculation. We basically don't get a chance to have political debates because when one party is black, whites have to vote the other party (keeping in mind these parties sometimes switch). It's just not even a choice.
    , @unpc downunder
    How can citizenism work when the only political options are two variations on right-wing liberalism, an ideology which is explicitly opposed to nationalism?

    For the majority of citizens to vote in a non-tribal way you need more options. For citizenism to work you at least need four voting options: a populist party, a socialist/green party, a liberal/libertarian party and a conservative party. The populist party would provide an option for working class whites and blacks who lean left on economic matters, and right on social issues. Providing a libertarian/liberal party option for urban yuppies and SWPLs would help counter the excessive power of the military industrial complex.

    Citizenism might work, but it requires radical changes to the political system to override entrenched voting patterns. And right-wing liberals and conservatives would probably have to accept higher taxes in return for greater patriotism from the poor. A poor black man isn't going to vote for immigration restrictionism if you threaten to take away his welfare.

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  76. I think the younger ones who do tend either to be Orthodox or neoconservatives. But among secular, progressive Jews, I think you’re right. People like Alan Dershowitz are kind of throwbacks in this regard.

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  77. Neuday says:
    @Whiskey
    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The "Jewish Question" immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there's a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered ... nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won't follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won't flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can't even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve's appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers -- shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that's a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.

    I suspect a generational divide is at work. It really is possible to notice and be opposed to Jewish supremacy in our culture and institutions and also have no affinity for a German leader from 75 years ago who led his nation into ruin. It is possible to notice jewish patterns throughout history and not care a whit for Richard Spencer. It’s quite likely that Steve/Jared Taylor/Derb/Whiskey are all on the boomer side of the aisle, and the JQ is just something that’s not done. Many of the younger folk have no such sensitivities because we, I’m Gen-X, have left our youth a basket case of a country, primarily due to a tribe of people who’ve arrived here since 1880 and promoted alienation and dissent where community and nationhood once prevailed.

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  78. @Carol
    It seems like Jews don't care about Israel anymore. They don't identify with it so they see no contradiction.

    Quite change from the Jews of my youth.

    I think most of the younger Jews who do tend to be either Orthodox or neoconservatives. Regarding secular, progressive Jews, I think you’re right. In this, someone like Alan Dershowitz is kind of a throwback to an earlier time.

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  79. rogue-one says:
    @Moses

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

     

    Except Israel.

    It's almost as if Weisman trying his best to confirm all the negative stereotypes about Jews subverting their host societies. Chutzpah indeed.

    From Hareetz

    >Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of U.S. comedian Sarah, is behind initiative to support some 40,000 Sudanese and Eritrean migrants who are facing forced deportation from Israel

    >A group of Israeli rabbis, including the sister of comedian Sarah Silverman, launched Tuesday an Anne Frank-inspired activist program calling on Israelis to hide African asylum seekers facing forced expulsion

    (behind paywall)

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-like-anne-frank-rabbis-plan-to-hide-asylum-seekers-in-israeli-homes-1.5743500

    >Hundreds of Israeli rabbis on Tuesday said they are willing to hide upwards of 38,000 African asylum seekers facing deportation in coming months under the banner of one of Judaism’s biggest heroes: Anne Frank.

    The campaign to protect the Africans, most of whom crossed Israel’s border with Egypt in an attempt to flee regional civil wars and economic strife over the last decade, is organized by Rabbis for Human Rights, an Israeli organization based in Jerusalem whose ranks include Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of comedian Sarah Silverman.

    Inspired by the sanctuary movement in the United States, which aims to protect unauthorized immigrants from deportation, the group has donned their campaign The Anne Frank Home Sanctuary movement.

    (http://www.newsweek.com/israel-immigration-refugees-rabbis-anne-frank-deportation-783969)

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

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    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

     

    "Hundreds" are "willing" to hide Africans. LOL.

    Anyway, call me when an Israeli gets fired from his job for "hate" or "racism" for being anti-immigration.
    , @anon
    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    But they do. They know that this isn't actually going to stop any of these people from getting deported. They say they want to let these people stay. But wait a couple of years and see how distraught they are once they're gone. They're just saying this so people will quit pointing out their obvious hypocrisy.
    , @Moses

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.
     
    Perhaps so. But it's funny how those "Jews who don't believe in borders" are so successful bringing borders down in America, where Jews are a tiny minority, but not in Israel, where Jews are the supermajority.

    It's almost as if...well, readers can finish the thought themselves.
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  80. Assynt says:
    @Forbes

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Somehow Israel didn't get the memo that Weisman cribs from...

    The diaspora strategy so to speak, mass immigration to disorient society and further the extraction of resources while preserving the mobile ethno state. Lets take this show on the road boys, the jig is up. Pedro, you’d make a good Peter, now look more German for a few.

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  81. @Simon in London
    Commentary - am I right that's a Jewish neocon magazine? Shapiro is aligned with the neocons now?

    the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise.

    it’s not for no reason the alt right is more polarizing than people like Steve would want. certain choices are not choices at all but thrust upon us, hence the bemusement at someone like Jared Taylor, who is putatively white nationalist.

    Steve Sailer, like America before Trump, is making terrible deals and the world is laughing. He begins by groveling and conceding everything to people who hate him and they end by giving him nothing but demonization in exile. No thanks, Steve, we’d rather you not negotiate on our behalf.

    He’s being played for a fool and I cannot believe he doesn’t see the irony in his exemplifying a characteristic he routinely ridicules in others. That is, Steve wants it to be one way but it’s the other way. Like an open borders advocate who ignores the actual consequences of their policies by self-righteously claiming anyone *can* become a good American citizen, Steve insists over and over that the mainstream is supposed to play nice and treat him and his views with respect. I happen to think truth and knowledge are good and that there is no honor in denying reality to insist on how you want the world to work.

    Cucking doesn’t work, and Steve has been perspicacious in seeing and identifying this flaw in others. Denying reality doesn’t make it go away but causes more problems than it solves, and Steve has done yeoman’s work in exposing the dominant narrative to sunlight.

    But in the end Steve can’t stop himself from plugging his ears and walking blindfolded down the primrose path, a useful idiot for those who despise him. Cue “Wouldn’t It Be Nice” playing over a montage of what’s happened to Detroit or South Central LA over the course of a baby boomer’s life, fade into it playing out of a boomer’s computer as he starts to type, “I am for all Americans, regardless of ethnicity, becoming model citizens…” and end with the boomer looking out the window to the sprinklers turning on in the golf course of his gated community.

    For any of you out there who share Steve’s tragic flaw, please consider coming in from the cold and joining us. It’s time to become a man and leave childish things behind, like stamping your feet or clutching your pearls about how you’re not comfortable with being explicitly white and discriminatory. Stop the madness of running away to the micro-whitopias of your mind or suburb and help us take back the real world. The time for planting gardens as the forest fire rages toward us is over. It doesn’t matter if it’s the most comfortable path–in fact it’s not a coincidence since NW European orientation on this is precisely why were being hoodwinked and destroyed–because its the only path we have.

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    • Replies: @anonymouslee
    For anyone like Steve who is tired of Obama's "That's not who we are!" it is time to take a long look in the mirror, because that is precisely how Steve responds to us when we say just slowing down immigration is no longer enough. We have unpleasantness in front of us but it's time to get tough and get smart--or else.

    Be a Man Among Men.

    https://goo.gl/images/jAjFYM

    because it's too late for Rhodesians.

    , @Desiderius
    Thus spake the DorkRight.
    , @Simon in London
    "the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise."

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich's Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer's race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don't equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

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  82. Dmitry says:
    @Moses
    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.

    David Brooks' son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what's good for America we should listen.

    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.

    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

    I’m pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.

    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.

    The theory that they are ‘double-thinking’ – again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    They either think immigrants are wonderful, or they don’t. In this case they are clearly in love with them and it’s a kind of obsession.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.

    David Brooks’ son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what’s good for America we should listen.

    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.

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    • Replies: @anon
    They either think immigrants are wonderful, or they don’t.

    JUST ASK THEM. Literally. They have Twitter accounts. Ask one of these people whether they want us to dump the refuse of the third world into Israel. They will tell you, themselves, that it's different for Israel.

    The theory that they are ‘double-thinking’ – again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    But it isn't "double-thinking". It's just one thought. Do whatever you can to harm goyim societies, while protecting Jewish ones. That's a single thought.
    , @Moses

    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.
     
    Fair enough. And Jews in America? What do a majority of them believe about immigration? Rhetorical.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

     

    Fair enough again. But we can guess based on their accumulated public statements and opinions, can't we? Brooks' son joined the IDF which defends the territorial integrity of Israel against "illegal infiltrators."

    I’m pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.
     
    Not sure what your point is here. "Which has more than a few members..." You mean, like 10%? 25%? What about the majority?

    Scratch that. I have no idea about Israeli party politics, or if the Zionist Union is a meaningful force. (<---no need to educate me on this, it's irrelevant).


    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.
     
    No idea what this means. Pass, Alex.

    The theory that they are ‘double-thinking’ – again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.
     
    I mentioned "double-standards." You're changing it to "double-thinking." Not the same thing. And yes, "double-standards" have great benefit for them. We have to make both America and Israel safe for the Jews, after all. Different methods -- and standards -- required for each.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.
     
    Stephens *did* live in Israel. Brooks' son lives in Israel and is a member of their armed forces. Presumably Brooks visits from time to time.

    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.
     
    Yes, good for Brooks' son doing something meaningful. Seriously, it's great to find a cause to believe in. It just seems clear that the cause these men believe in is not "What's good for America" but rather "What's good for the Jews." Stephens is always bringing it up.

    There's nothing wrong with supporting and advancing the interests of your ethnic group. And the sooner Whites realize that the interests of their Fellow Whites are are different from Whites' interests, the better. And there's nothing wrong with that either. We can respectfully pursue our different interests. Although Whites realizing that may not in fact be "Good for the Jews."

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  83. @anonymouslee
    the alt-lite mask has come off and they've been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise.

    it's not for no reason the alt right is more polarizing than people like Steve would want. certain choices are not choices at all but thrust upon us, hence the bemusement at someone like Jared Taylor, who is putatively white nationalist.

    Steve Sailer, like America before Trump, is making terrible deals and the world is laughing. He begins by groveling and conceding everything to people who hate him and they end by giving him nothing but demonization in exile. No thanks, Steve, we'd rather you not negotiate on our behalf.

    He's being played for a fool and I cannot believe he doesn't see the irony in his exemplifying a characteristic he routinely ridicules in others. That is, Steve wants it to be one way but it's the other way. Like an open borders advocate who ignores the actual consequences of their policies by self-righteously claiming anyone *can* become a good American citizen, Steve insists over and over that the mainstream is supposed to play nice and treat him and his views with respect. I happen to think truth and knowledge are good and that there is no honor in denying reality to insist on how you want the world to work.

    Cucking doesn't work, and Steve has been perspicacious in seeing and identifying this flaw in others. Denying reality doesn't make it go away but causes more problems than it solves, and Steve has done yeoman's work in exposing the dominant narrative to sunlight.

    But in the end Steve can't stop himself from plugging his ears and walking blindfolded down the primrose path, a useful idiot for those who despise him. Cue "Wouldn't It Be Nice" playing over a montage of what's happened to Detroit or South Central LA over the course of a baby boomer's life, fade into it playing out of a boomer's computer as he starts to type, "I am for all Americans, regardless of ethnicity, becoming model citizens..." and end with the boomer looking out the window to the sprinklers turning on in the golf course of his gated community.

    For any of you out there who share Steve's tragic flaw, please consider coming in from the cold and joining us. It's time to become a man and leave childish things behind, like stamping your feet or clutching your pearls about how you're not comfortable with being explicitly white and discriminatory. Stop the madness of running away to the micro-whitopias of your mind or suburb and help us take back the real world. The time for planting gardens as the forest fire rages toward us is over. It doesn't matter if it's the most comfortable path--in fact it's not a coincidence since NW European orientation on this is precisely why were being hoodwinked and destroyed--because its the only path we have.

    For anyone like Steve who is tired of Obama’s “That’s not who we are!” it is time to take a long look in the mirror, because that is precisely how Steve responds to us when we say just slowing down immigration is no longer enough. We have unpleasantness in front of us but it’s time to get tough and get smart–or else.

    Be a Man Among Men.

    https://goo.gl/images/jAjFYM

    because it’s too late for Rhodesians.

    Read More
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  84. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.
     

    This is 100% about running interference with respect to public opinion in the US and UK. They finally figured out (probably with help from people like some of us) how it might look. Nothing more than that.

    Of course, thus far the 'compliant' media in the USA is making it even easier for them by ignoring the issue. But this will be excellent 'cover' should someone take note of it.

    This is 100% about running interference with respect to public opinion in the US and UK. They finally figured out (probably with help from people like some of us) how it might look. Nothing more than that.

    Of course, thus far the ‘compliant’ media in the USA is making it even easier for them by ignoring the issue. But this will be excellent ‘cover’ should someone take note of it.

    The ADL has to think about its donors’ (liberal Jews – many of whom follow ‘with concern’ events in Israeli politics) conscience. This is a ‘charity’ that depends on donations from wealthy liberals, and has effectively become a wing of the Democrat Party in the US.

    But in the case of Israel, there are very many liberals who genuinely want to keep all the illegal immigrants they can (the Supreme Court in Israel has been striking down every law encouraging them to leave, for the last 5 years). In Israel, educated people from upper-middle class demographics are often very passionately in favour of illegal immigrants. The rest of the public, not so much to put it mildly.

    Just take a look at the behaviour of the Supreme Court judges in Israel, who write articles about their role of advancing liberalism in the society.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The Israeli Supreme Court appears to be somewhat self-selecting, and is the only branch of government to give representation to the Arab Minority. An Arab PM or President appears to be unspeakable, even asking for an Arab quota alongside a gender quota. But at the same time, Israel doesn't have a written Constitution so the Court is much less powerful to permanently alter policy in the way the US Supreme Court does.

    What is more important, is that the Labor party has been reduced from its previous dominant state due to its weakness in reacting to the Intifada. But even Labor has an explicit policy of maintaining Israel as a supermajority Jewish state. In the US Congress, only Steve King of Iowa has explicitly said that whites should be the ethnic supermajority in the US, and he was still in favor of assimilation.
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  85. @J.Ross
    Among the numerous disadvantages to letting Jews be your intellectual caste is that you must edit out half of everything they say. I didn't make it past the first paragraph. Yes, Ben, a significant number of Jews are far leftists, conflate that identity (except when an anti-Semite points it out), and frequently justify their politics, in terms of their Jewishness. And yes "alt-right" is relatively right (insofar as it is anything). And neither definition squabble really matters. No Somethingstein is breaking with the DNC because Ben explained a biblical passage differently than she understood it, and the idea that the alt-right are leftists is like Jonah Goldberg pointing out that Nazis (like the rest of the spectrum) were relatively leftist in many respects compared to today. If true, then meaningless.
    I predict that Shapiro is not capable of doing a good slam of this book because he'll be too busy in ownership disputes over its symbols. I shall drink something and try again.

    Among the numerous disadvantages to letting Jews be your intellectual caste is that you must edit out half of everything they say.

    And the worse disadvantage of this state of affairs is that eventually they get powerful enough to edit out everything you say.

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  86. Dmitry says:
    @Lot
    Shapiro is much more associated and aligned with Ted Cruz and other hard right evangelicals than with the NY-DC neocon group. He commonly represents conservative evangelical groups and individuals in court on free speech and home schooling issues.

    He wrote this in Commentary to discourage neocons from buying the book. His normal medium is talk radio and his column syndicated to a lot of small town newspapers. But they were unlikely to be interested in such a book.

    Shapiro is much more associated and aligned with Ted Cruz and other hard right evangelicals than with the NY-DC neocon group. He commonly represents conservative evangelical groups and individuals in court on free speech and home schooling issues.

    Shapiro seems sensible on most issues.

    Apart from on foreign policy, where he seems to be quite illiterate. He was talking on one show I saw on youtube, about the importance of NATO defending Ukraine and the Baltics, and calling Putin a ‘dictator’ – he seemed to have zero understanding of the issues.

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  87. @Mitchell Porter
    What is the alternative ideal and the plan for realizing it? What is to be the concept of American nationhood?

    I'll start with Ann Coulter. I saw her in an exchange with a Latino or Hispanic once. She was saying, American blacks have experienced actual racial discrimination, you have not. The impression I got, was a concept of the American nation as being, at its heart, a white majority and black minority, and then everyone else is a real minority, who can be OK if they assimilate culturally.

    I feel like that's a semi-viable way of thinking, in that it is at least based on America's current racial balance. Now, you also want to do something about left-wing Jewish power in America. I'm not at all sure what you could have in mind here. I suppose that as long as Trump and the Republicans stay on top, and anti-liberal (?) businesses and institutions are supported, then you have a chance of steadily eroding that power.

    Add to all that, economic nationalism and a halt to immigration... Is this a cultural and political program you would support? What would you do differently? I'm just trying to figure out what a genuine alt-right national agenda looks like.

    What did Steve say Reagan said about the Cold War?

    The idea is that we win and they lose.

    Mexicans are going back. Blacks can leave or perhaps stay under apartheid. No political enfranchisement or welfare, though, so they’ll leave.

    People talk about it being impossible to make people leave but that’s a joke. They get here easily enough in the first place and they can walk out the exact same way. It will take relatively minor incentives and that’s it.

    The once and future America is a free republic on the North American continent for a European people, a citizenry and its posterity. It’s not at all hard to see what the idea is.

    The plan for realizing it is simple: we become the political movement for young white men, some of whom right now are being born prisoners in their own country. Everyone else in this country is living off the backs of and at the pleasure of white men. They will find that out with our backs against the wall.

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    • Agree: 27 year old
    • Replies: @27 year old

    People talk about it being impossible to make people leave but that’s a joke. They get here easily enough in the first place and they can walk out the exact same way. It will take relatively minor incentives and that’s it.
     
    I once said: They came here by ordinary means and they will leave by ordinary means.

    Great posts on this thread. I don't think it's worthwhile to try to change Steve's mind on the JQ, but, go for it if you want to.
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  88. @Whiskey
    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The "Jewish Question" immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there's a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered ... nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won't follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won't flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can't even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve's appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers -- shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that's a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.

    The “Jewish Question” immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin.

    Of course! The solution is the mainstream right- the people who have been systematically failing. How could this go possibly wrong?

    What, Black people will just move away?

    How do you think segregation worked in the first place? How do you think borders are supposed to work? They involve men with guns using force.

    We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can’t even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Yes, we have to operate based on the rules instituted by the left. After all, we know they set up the situation this way because they care so much about our welfare.

    Steve’s appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival.

    Spite doesn’t exist. Envy doesn’t exist. Tribalism doesn’t exist. You face the same issue that liberals do- you can’t convince all whites your beliefs are true, what makes you think that you can convince all non-whites? Appeals to self-interest mean the winning party becomes the one that can promise to loot the republic the most to provide gibs. Which means demonizing makers which gets us back to where we were in the first place.

    And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers — shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that’s a proven winning method in America?

    If your goal is to tell people what they want to hear, go ahead. Watch as slice by slice you lose because people do not want to hear hate-facts and those who are most skilled at lying win the day. Lying for power is leftism and it is a competition you cannot win.

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  89. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Anon

    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.
     
    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren't so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I'm guessing.............No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it's all so regrettable - I'm really against it, but.....................

    That's a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we're really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) - just give us a majority, and we'll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu's planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599


    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599

    "American Jewish protests against the planned deportation have been relatively muted and confined to Jewish groups that are less reluctant to criticize the Israeli government on policy issues. A recent exchange with Israel’s Foreign Ministry on the matter was signed by HIAS, the lead Jewish immigration advocacy group, leaders of the Reform movement, the National Council of Jewish Women and J Street, the liberal Middle East policy group, among other groups.

    Even these groups, fighting what they see as threats to immigrants and minorities in the era of President Donald Trump, lack the bandwidth to make this a priority issue.

    “The American Jewish community can be moved on these issues,” said Libby Lenkinski, the vice president for public engagement for the New Israel Fund, which funds groups that assist the African refugees in Israel. “But between that and making it a cause celebre? There’s some distance.”

    “We’re obviously fighting on a lot of fronts right now for fairness and justice for refugees,” said Melanie Nezer, the vice president for public affairs at HIAS. “It would be nice to have one problem – we don’t.”
     

    In any event, even if there are jewish groups that unhypocritically advocate the same crazy stuff for Israel that they wish on the US, that doesn't mean their advocacy here is of no consequence, or that I shouldn't take notice of it.

    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren’t so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I’m guessing………….No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu’s planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:

    Jewish or not. They are still foreigners to Israel – sympathetic foreigners, but still not people who have to live with the consequences.

    So the fact they are protesting against a minor, internal policy issue happening in a country they don’t live in is already a bit insane.

    This doesn’t create a good image of American Jewish politics with the ordinary public in Israel. On the other hand, the liberal elites in Israel see them as a kind of role-model to emulate.

    However, these statements by American Jewish groups will nowadays have little influence on policy in Israel, whereas in the 1990s they might have – before the country’s own liberal elite fell out of favour.

    One thing about Israel, is that Trump style politics has already been going on in the Likud Party for a decade or so. People like Miri Regev are behaving like total clowns, but getting more and more popular, as they have the ability to enrage the same kind of pretentious demographics that Trump enrages in the United States.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    However, these statements by American Jewish groups will nowadays have little influence on policy in Israel, whereas in the 1990s they might have – before the country’s own liberal elite fell out of favour.
     
    I don't especially care how much or how little influence groups like the ADL have on Israeli policy. For all I really care, Israel can run every African out of the country or keep them all - they can turn their country into a Woodstock festival hippie love-in, or into Enver Hoxna's Albania, with a border of barbed wire and pill-boxes with machineguns every hundred yards. It isn't my country. My advice to Israel, would be to expel all the illegal aliens, vigilantly guard their borders, and jealously guard the privilege of their citizenship, so that they remain not just a "Jewish State" but an actually jewish nation. I like the idea of nation states, even when they aren't my own. But it's their business.

    No, my concern is with the influence that groups like the ADL have on my country and its immigration policies. That influence is real, it is injurious to my country, and I don't like it.

    , @anon
    It is easy and convenient to protest against Israeli treatment of Africans when it is well known that the situations wont be broadcast in US news like CNN or MSNBC , and while it is well known no USA leader will have the balls to raise it as humanitarian issue . Until and unless the issues are raised by Muslim murder advocates like the neocons of the ilk of Schumer, Krystol, Podhoretz, Goldberg, Goldberg, Gaffney,Bolton, FDD, Israeli Project, Stand With Israel types - these calm calculated complaint against Israeli treatment have no value no relevance. It is just for show.
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  90. … According to Weisman, Judaism derives its present-day importance from the way it provides a religious echo to secular leftism. This is his actual opening sentence: “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.” Thus does he describe a people whose binding glue over the millennia is a faith tradition literally designed to separate its adherents from those who are not their co-religionists.

    JEWS ARE HYPER-ETHNOCENTRIC

    JEWS ATTACK ETHNOCENTRISM IN OTHERS

    JEWS ARE HYPOCRITES

    I once heard a Jewish professor ask, “What do you do if the stereotype is true?”

    That is an honest Jew! He was a Leftist, but a good professor.

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  91. theMann says:

    So what is he saying here- you can be a Jew, or you can be an American, but you can’t be a Jewish American?

    Even if that isn’t what he is saying, that is how it will be interpreted. How this is going to be helpful to anybody eludes me. Even if that isn’t what he is saying, Secular Leftists are heartily despised by pretty much all the rest of humanity, so when Jews as a group get associated (maligned?) with them that isn’t going to go well, especially with so much of the world trending “right” in the sense of rediscovering National Identity.

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  92. Pericles says:
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    This is of course not acceptable and America needs to take action. Withhold the aid to Israel until they reverse their hateful policies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Will these groups lobby Congress to impose sanctions on Israel?
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  93. Not Raul says:

    The opening statement makes sense.

    If one group decides where the boundaries go, and the other group doesn’t, the first group can collect economic rents from the second group.

    Here’s an example: if the boundaries that apply to the rest of us don’t apply to Marc Rich, Dan Gertler, and Ivan Glasenberg; it should be no surprise that the three of them were able to make billions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    If one group decides where the boundaries go, and the other group doesn’t, the first group can collect economic rents from the second group.


    How so? How does that work exactly?
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  94. Pericles says:
    @Whiskey
    Wrong on every respect. There is ZERO appetite among anyone, much less young White men, for Nazi Larping. Richard Spencer has what, 200 followers at best? He could not generate much more than that at Charlottesville with all the publicity. The "Jewish Question" immediately labels someone an idiot Nazi Larper with the persuasion skills of an autistic penguin. Yeah there's a lot of the sentiment posted on alt-right forums. By the same 17 people. Its akin to the old TV board Television with Pity or something, that went belly up after their business model of data mining threads about TV shows to sell to customers butted up against the fact that most posts were about niche shows that only a few hundred thousand watched and had twenty people posting over and over. Example: Veronica Mars. Popular shows like NCIS garnered ... nothing.

    Moreover, fantasies about racial separatism are just that, fantasies. What, Black people will just move away? Or won't follow wherever good White infrastructure is created and won't flee wherever bad Black infrastructure is present (because African levels of societies always turn into s-holes?) We are not deporting anyone much less the descendants of slaves and can't even build a wall or limit the amount of Third Worlders pouring into our country for workfare: cheap labor and topping up by social welfare spending.

    Steve's appeal to mutual self-interest in terms of SURVIVAL among Black, Hispanic, Asian, and White Americans to keep the lifeboat afloat in the sea of Third World poverty has appeal of survival. What, Steve and Taylor and Derbyshire are all of a sudden real stupid? And a bunch of young Nazi larpers have all the answers -- shout for the Der Fuhrer and agitate against Jews and that's a proven winning method in America? You need to get together with Philip Roth since you both essentially think the same thing.

    Thus spake the neo-con semite. Believe it if you will.

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  95. @Neil Templeton
    Liberty begins with L.

    Liberty, freedom of speech, etc., are only possible if the populace has the set of behavioral characteristics that allow them to flourish. Those behavioral characteristics are largely hereditary. Writing a bill of rights into the Liberian or Congolese or Haitian constitution will do exactly nothing to improve the state of those societies because the populace is unfit. The Iraq debacle was an illustration of this.

    Now obviously the existence of a populace with these behavioral characteristics is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for liberty to flourish. The examples of East and West Germany, North and South Korea, etc., show this–a good populace can still end up in a terrible situation due to a bad regime. But a good regime or legal framework cannot ever fix a bad populace.

    To be more specific populations need:

    Impulse control–if you say something that makes me angry, I don’t immediately react with violence. Without this free speech is impossible in practice. Impulse control is largely hereditary.

    Novelty seeking–also a hereditary personality trait. Individuals who are novelty seeking are more likely to accept a degree of political pluralism and nonconformity, essential for liberty as well as scientific and technological advancement.

    Conscientiousness–also a hereditary personality trait. In order to have a functional nation of laws, individuals must follow laws even when enforcement is not always practical or possible. Conscientious individuals are likelier to do this. Without enough conscientious individuals in a society the only two options are anarchy or a police state. For example Iraq, Syria.

    Intelligence–also hereditary. A society of dummies will be unable to meet its basic needs for food, sanitation, healthcare, etc., and will become a Hobbesian hellhole; higher level values are irrelevant when you can’t feed or clothe yourself.

    The general concept of ‘liberty’ and representative democracy work only in certain populations that have particular genetic characteristics. These are predominantly European, as well as East Asian.
    The important letters are C, T, A, and G (the four DNA base pairs.) If you wish to protect liberty, protect the people that make it possible.

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Very nice. With one minor flaw. If you wish to protect liberty, be careful when you preselect its adherents and champions. Be sure of their competence and virtue. Genetic inheritance is informative, but not dispositive.
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  96. Pericles says:
    @Mitchell Porter
    What is the alternative ideal and the plan for realizing it? What is to be the concept of American nationhood?

    I'll start with Ann Coulter. I saw her in an exchange with a Latino or Hispanic once. She was saying, American blacks have experienced actual racial discrimination, you have not. The impression I got, was a concept of the American nation as being, at its heart, a white majority and black minority, and then everyone else is a real minority, who can be OK if they assimilate culturally.

    I feel like that's a semi-viable way of thinking, in that it is at least based on America's current racial balance. Now, you also want to do something about left-wing Jewish power in America. I'm not at all sure what you could have in mind here. I suppose that as long as Trump and the Republicans stay on top, and anti-liberal (?) businesses and institutions are supported, then you have a chance of steadily eroding that power.

    Add to all that, economic nationalism and a halt to immigration... Is this a cultural and political program you would support? What would you do differently? I'm just trying to figure out what a genuine alt-right national agenda looks like.

    She was saying, American blacks have experienced actual racial discrimination, you have not.

    For example, once when Jamarcus was robbing two whites, they shied back and looked terrified. That was quite hurtful.

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  97. Pericles says:

    Also, considering the title, I suppose congratulations are in order for The Daily Shoah.

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  98. Jack D says:
    @anonymouslee
    It's extremely odd that boomers on our side like steve and jared taylor have some bizarre mental tic about the JQ.

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn't affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not "alt-right" qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ. And I mean there literally won't be one out of a thousand of his actual readers and supporters from the alt-right who adopts his quirk on that topic.


    The market of ideas has spoken and I wonder if Steve or Jared are surprised. I'm talking about people who read and appreciate both of them and there is consensus they're wrong (and not just a little bit) on this topic. It's extremely rare that a large group of people will say they learned a lot from an intellectual and agree with him in a general sense but completely reject one thesis advanced among a host of others, and that there is perfect agreement on which one they got wrong. Hint: it's usually not good news for the elder statesman when all of his students say "Oh, that? Look, he was a great scientist...he just had a blind spot when it came to [current theory the mentor stubbornly refused to see even though he had plenty of time to realize his mistake]."

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it'd be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us, the people who didn't ruin this country and still have children to *make in the future.* We do not and will not accept just being stuck with the mistakes of the generations who put the torch to our birthright. No.

    When the facts changed, Steve, Bertrand Russell changed his mind. What do you do? Citizenism was a good idea for some point in time in this nations history. Whatever that point was, it's over now. How hard is it to grasp that these can both be true? Stubbornness will win you no converts. You have no right to continue being wrong when the future still exists for some of us; you don't get to indulge what makes you feel warm and fuzzy instead of sad and icky just because you're in YOUR twilight. Grow up, boomers.

    Every boomer needs to have the grace to apologize. Whatever you were thinking you were either wrong or failed to do anything about it. We built this from scratch, like the damn pilgrims. We inherited George W. Bush, Paul Ryan and Bill Kristol from you along with fond memories of WFBs National Review, another complete disgrace, and Ronald Reagan riding horsies.

    There were no institutions for us to grow into. How pathetic of the worst generation. "Libertarian" think tanks promoting muh Constitution and muh tax cuts as the nation died, "Hawks" dedicated to our Greatest Ally (tm), impotent evangelical quacks. All of it worthless at best and insane at worst. The scorecard will read that boomers destroyed much and gave literally nothing to us patriots.

    We are all out of patience with Jews, who quite clearly see us as the enemy and have been winning the fight that the other side didn't show up for. No longer. They used up all of their "Oops" chances a long time ago and it's crystal clear we can't (and won't) share a nation with them. Steve's never-ending shtick that the Jews just need to be reminded sometimes they don't *appear* to be good, patriotic Americans is laughable, bordering on criminally false.

    it’s crystal clear we can’t (and won’t) share a nation with them

    Who is this “we” that you speak of?

    Seriously, what’s the plan? Expulsion? Extermination? Pitchforks? Marching with Tiki torches? Does the President’s daughter and her family have to go too? I don’t think POTUS will be too happy about that.

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    • Agree: Opinionator
    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Who is this “we” that you speak of?
     
    The people slated for exterminated by our elites.

    Seriously, what’s the plan? Expulsion? Extermination? Pitchforks? Marching with Tiki torches?
     
    Short term? Expulsion. Long term? See Malthus.

    Does the President’s daughter and her family have to go too? I don’t think POTUS will be too happy about that.
     
    Then he should take power and institute a monarchy. Jews are not an issue in an autocracy.
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  99. @SimpleSong
    (cringe)

    "Brevity is the soul of wit.": common aphorism

    "Brevity is the wit of the soul.": word salad

    Was that short enough?

    Nope.

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  100. @anonymouslee
    the alt-lite mask has come off and they've been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise.

    it's not for no reason the alt right is more polarizing than people like Steve would want. certain choices are not choices at all but thrust upon us, hence the bemusement at someone like Jared Taylor, who is putatively white nationalist.

    Steve Sailer, like America before Trump, is making terrible deals and the world is laughing. He begins by groveling and conceding everything to people who hate him and they end by giving him nothing but demonization in exile. No thanks, Steve, we'd rather you not negotiate on our behalf.

    He's being played for a fool and I cannot believe he doesn't see the irony in his exemplifying a characteristic he routinely ridicules in others. That is, Steve wants it to be one way but it's the other way. Like an open borders advocate who ignores the actual consequences of their policies by self-righteously claiming anyone *can* become a good American citizen, Steve insists over and over that the mainstream is supposed to play nice and treat him and his views with respect. I happen to think truth and knowledge are good and that there is no honor in denying reality to insist on how you want the world to work.

    Cucking doesn't work, and Steve has been perspicacious in seeing and identifying this flaw in others. Denying reality doesn't make it go away but causes more problems than it solves, and Steve has done yeoman's work in exposing the dominant narrative to sunlight.

    But in the end Steve can't stop himself from plugging his ears and walking blindfolded down the primrose path, a useful idiot for those who despise him. Cue "Wouldn't It Be Nice" playing over a montage of what's happened to Detroit or South Central LA over the course of a baby boomer's life, fade into it playing out of a boomer's computer as he starts to type, "I am for all Americans, regardless of ethnicity, becoming model citizens..." and end with the boomer looking out the window to the sprinklers turning on in the golf course of his gated community.

    For any of you out there who share Steve's tragic flaw, please consider coming in from the cold and joining us. It's time to become a man and leave childish things behind, like stamping your feet or clutching your pearls about how you're not comfortable with being explicitly white and discriminatory. Stop the madness of running away to the micro-whitopias of your mind or suburb and help us take back the real world. The time for planting gardens as the forest fire rages toward us is over. It doesn't matter if it's the most comfortable path--in fact it's not a coincidence since NW European orientation on this is precisely why were being hoodwinked and destroyed--because its the only path we have.

    Thus spake the DorkRight.

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    • Agree: IHTG
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Thus spake the DorkRight.
     
    And you are - what - the Cuck-Right? The conservatives who have so far succeeded in conserving nothing.
    , @IHTG
    Always amuses me how much the concept of "Citizenism" triggers these types when it's basically just a clever rhetorical tactic for arguing for immigration restriction.
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  101. Mr. Anon says:
    @Dmitry

    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren’t so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I’m guessing………….No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu’s planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:
     

    Jewish or not. They are still foreigners to Israel - sympathetic foreigners, but still not people who have to live with the consequences.

    So the fact they are protesting against a minor, internal policy issue happening in a country they don't live in is already a bit insane.

    This doesn't create a good image of American Jewish politics with the ordinary public in Israel. On the other hand, the liberal elites in Israel see them as a kind of role-model to emulate.

    However, these statements by American Jewish groups will nowadays have little influence on policy in Israel, whereas in the 1990s they might have - before the country's own liberal elite fell out of favour.

    One thing about Israel, is that Trump style politics has already been going on in the Likud Party for a decade or so. People like Miri Regev are behaving like total clowns, but getting more and more popular, as they have the ability to enrage the same kind of pretentious demographics that Trump enrages in the United States.

    However, these statements by American Jewish groups will nowadays have little influence on policy in Israel, whereas in the 1990s they might have – before the country’s own liberal elite fell out of favour.

    I don’t especially care how much or how little influence groups like the ADL have on Israeli policy. For all I really care, Israel can run every African out of the country or keep them all – they can turn their country into a Woodstock festival hippie love-in, or into Enver Hoxna’s Albania, with a border of barbed wire and pill-boxes with machineguns every hundred yards. It isn’t my country. My advice to Israel, would be to expel all the illegal aliens, vigilantly guard their borders, and jealously guard the privilege of their citizenship, so that they remain not just a “Jewish State” but an actually jewish nation. I like the idea of nation states, even when they aren’t my own. But it’s their business.

    No, my concern is with the influence that groups like the ADL have on my country and its immigration policies. That influence is real, it is injurious to my country, and I don’t like it.

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  102. @anonymouslee
    the alt-lite mask has come off and they've been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise.

    it's not for no reason the alt right is more polarizing than people like Steve would want. certain choices are not choices at all but thrust upon us, hence the bemusement at someone like Jared Taylor, who is putatively white nationalist.

    Steve Sailer, like America before Trump, is making terrible deals and the world is laughing. He begins by groveling and conceding everything to people who hate him and they end by giving him nothing but demonization in exile. No thanks, Steve, we'd rather you not negotiate on our behalf.

    He's being played for a fool and I cannot believe he doesn't see the irony in his exemplifying a characteristic he routinely ridicules in others. That is, Steve wants it to be one way but it's the other way. Like an open borders advocate who ignores the actual consequences of their policies by self-righteously claiming anyone *can* become a good American citizen, Steve insists over and over that the mainstream is supposed to play nice and treat him and his views with respect. I happen to think truth and knowledge are good and that there is no honor in denying reality to insist on how you want the world to work.

    Cucking doesn't work, and Steve has been perspicacious in seeing and identifying this flaw in others. Denying reality doesn't make it go away but causes more problems than it solves, and Steve has done yeoman's work in exposing the dominant narrative to sunlight.

    But in the end Steve can't stop himself from plugging his ears and walking blindfolded down the primrose path, a useful idiot for those who despise him. Cue "Wouldn't It Be Nice" playing over a montage of what's happened to Detroit or South Central LA over the course of a baby boomer's life, fade into it playing out of a boomer's computer as he starts to type, "I am for all Americans, regardless of ethnicity, becoming model citizens..." and end with the boomer looking out the window to the sprinklers turning on in the golf course of his gated community.

    For any of you out there who share Steve's tragic flaw, please consider coming in from the cold and joining us. It's time to become a man and leave childish things behind, like stamping your feet or clutching your pearls about how you're not comfortable with being explicitly white and discriminatory. Stop the madness of running away to the micro-whitopias of your mind or suburb and help us take back the real world. The time for planting gardens as the forest fire rages toward us is over. It doesn't matter if it's the most comfortable path--in fact it's not a coincidence since NW European orientation on this is precisely why were being hoodwinked and destroyed--because its the only path we have.

    “the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise.”

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich’s Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer’s race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don’t equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I agree with your estimation of things. There is still some of what was refered to as "Alt-Right" whom I agree with - the ones who haven't become Reichtards.
    , @Ricky Vaughn
    Vox Day is another anti-Semite obsessed with the so called “Jewish Question.” He was hightlighted as such by the ADL. You should be disavowing him.
    , @Desiderius

    Sailer’s race-blind Citizenism
     
    Sailer's about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y'all are clear nuts.

    the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution

     

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.
    , @anonymouslee
    Actually, for people who aren't sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their "side" where side is defined as broadly as "the alt right."

    Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Matthew Heimbach, Greg Johnson, et al. say "yes" to that question so anyone saying "no" is either not alt-right or very confused. At a certain point it is what it is and no true Scotsman fallacies don't help. When the inventor of the term alt-right and the ADL agree Anglin has the highest trafficked alt-right website, we can close the book on that question.

    And anyone who's not alt-right will not be unsure of where they stand with Anglin, which is part of his charm. Milo, Ben Shapiro, et al. can tell you that. (Another part of his charm is, as Richard Spencer said when talking about all of the people on the alt-right who say they "used to be" libertarians, republicans or even libs*, "you never hear someone say they were devoted to the daily stormer but now they're a moderate cuckservative."

    *we are going to get the younger, saner Bernie bros like we got the younger, saner libertarians. libs are going to keep doubling down on anti-white male rhetoric and action.
    , @27 year old

    Just to clarify, I don’t equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.
     
    What's the difference? You posted the 14 words yourself...
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  103. @Pericles

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

     

    This is of course not acceptable and America needs to take action. Withhold the aid to Israel until they reverse their hateful policies.

    Will these groups lobby Congress to impose sanctions on Israel?

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  104. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius
    Thus spake the DorkRight.

    Thus spake the DorkRight.

    And you are – what – the Cuck-Right? The conservatives who have so far succeeded in conserving nothing.

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    • Replies: @anonymouslee
    thats one thing I don't understand.

    old republicans and conservatives have failed *catastrophically*. that's an empirical observation. The question is why that empirical evidence hasn't led them to check their assumptions and biases. why on EARTH should they be offering up things like, "in my opinion, the hard alt-right is all wrong." your opinion? but we just established that your intuitions had everything wrong. Going against the intuitions of people who had a theory, tested it, and saw the evidence smash to smithereens what they "thought" was the right way is a *good thing*
    , @Desiderius
    If those are the only two options, we're truly screwed.

    Thankfully, most of our minds aren't so pathetically cramped.
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  105. @Not Raul
    The opening statement makes sense.

    If one group decides where the boundaries go, and the other group doesn't, the first group can collect economic rents from the second group.

    Here's an example: if the boundaries that apply to the rest of us don't apply to Marc Rich, Dan Gertler, and Ivan Glasenberg; it should be no surprise that the three of them were able to make billions.

    If one group decides where the boundaries go, and the other group doesn’t, the first group can collect economic rents from the second group.

    How so? How does that work exactly?

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  106. Mr. Anon says:
    @Simon in London
    "the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise."

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich's Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer's race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don't equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

    I agree with your estimation of things. There is still some of what was refered to as “Alt-Right” whom I agree with – the ones who haven’t become Reichtards.

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  107. Ricky Vaughn [AKA "Educated Conservative"] says:
    @Simon in London
    "the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise."

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich's Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer's race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don't equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

    Vox Day is another anti-Semite obsessed with the so called “Jewish Question.” He was hightlighted as such by the ADL. You should be disavowing him.

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    • Replies: @EriK

    Vox Day is another anti-Semite obsessed with the so called “Jewish Question.” He was hightlighted as such by the ADL. You should be disavowing him.
     
    I disavow the ADL
    , @Mr. Anon
    And do you imagine that the ADL, or it's characterization of Vox Day, can be trusted?

    By the way, I note that this post of yours is your one and only post on this site. You might just be a troll, in the original sense of the term.

    In any event, I don't see any reason to care what you think, anymore than I care what the ADL things.
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  108. jack ryan says: • Website
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    This is worthless.

    It’s like American Jews virtue signaling that they are for….

    Peace in the Middle East – getting Nobel Prize folks in Norway and Sweden to give the Nobel Peace Price to Menachim Begin and Yassir Arafat – two terrorists.

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  109. Jews, even Israelis, are incurably leftist. Many think that Israel is a very determined nation-state, but way too many Israelis are PC bunch, with a minority of dissenting voices.

    Or it’s simply my prejudice, because all this dancing around race question is something I’m really fed up with.

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  110. jack ryan says: • Website
    @Lagertha
    Reply to Sunbeam: excellent analysis! I have also, since a child, wondered why Jews (powerful ones - I grew up in NYC & Jersey) so hate all the "deplorable" people in the states & in Europe?; my homeland...all the people who were pioneers/homesteaders.

    Why are they so obsessed with their uniqueness? - the whole Chosen People stuff? - I am Lutheran, but most of my friends, neighbors, don't even know that. Could it be a panic that so many Jews (men, particularly) are marrying out of their religion?

    Jews somehow, pushing to fill this country up with refugees, migrants, Muslims, is so confusing in so many ways; so contrary to their ambitions and modus operandi - it is especially creepy now. If they fight for their minority status, now, and somehow believe they will still hang on to high status, well, a steam roller of immigrants from non-Jewish backgrounds will roll over them, or tax the successful ones (non-Jews included) to death, for time in immemorial.

    Jews and Muslims have long memories.

    Both remember the Muslim Arab Moor occupation of Spain that lasted….

    700 years.

    Jews and Muslims consider this to be a golden age.

    Jews were given the boot or put under the Spanish Inquisition in 1492 for basically taking the Muslim side, being tax collectors for the Muslim Moors, selling White girls in to sexual slavery to ME, Turkish Muslim buyers.

    The alliance between Saudi Sunni Islamists and American Lib Left Democrat/Zionists is best represented by the sham marriage of New York Mayor to be/not be because of sexual pervert texting

    Anthony Wiener and Hillary Clinton’s (lesbian?) chief of Staff Huma Abedin – a strong case for birth control if there ever was one.

    Here’s a photo of this match made in ME hell

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  111. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry
    They don't believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the 'best thing since sliced bread', and that is that.

    US JEWISH GROUPS CALL ON NETANYAHU TO STOP DEPORTATION OF AFRICAN MIGRANTS

    The ADL and HIAS say the plan to pay countries to take African migrants betrays Jewish values.

    The Anti-Defamation League and the refugee protection group HIAS have sent an open letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressing “grave concerns” over a government plan to deport or imprison tens of thousands of African asylum- seekers in March.

     

    /


    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-Jewish-groups-call-on-Netanyahu-to-stop-deportation-of-African-migrants-536914

    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.

    This is quite obviously not the case, as you can find out simply by asking them. Just ask one on Twitter if, since the US will be taking in fewer Muslim refugees, if Israel can take them on. After all, immigrants are awesome, right?

    You’ll see, pretty quickly, that they all have the same answer. Israel is different, because it’s for the Jewish people.

    People have actually done this, you know. You seem to think that nobody has thought of this before.

    There is no double thinking going on at all. Only single thinking. “Gentile societies must be damaged and undermined, while our society must be preserved.” That’s it. That is literally what it all boils down to.

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  112. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.
     
    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

    I'm pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.

    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.

    The theory that they are 'double-thinking' - again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    They either think immigrants are wonderful, or they don't. In this case they are clearly in love with them and it's a kind of obsession.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.


    David Brooks’ son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what’s good for America we should listen.
     
    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.

    They either think immigrants are wonderful, or they don’t.

    JUST ASK THEM. Literally. They have Twitter accounts. Ask one of these people whether they want us to dump the refuse of the third world into Israel. They will tell you, themselves, that it’s different for Israel.

    The theory that they are ‘double-thinking’ – again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    But it isn’t “double-thinking”. It’s just one thought. Do whatever you can to harm goyim societies, while protecting Jewish ones. That’s a single thought.

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  113. @rogue-one
    From Hareetz

    >Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of U.S. comedian Sarah, is behind initiative to support some 40,000 Sudanese and Eritrean migrants who are facing forced deportation from Israel


    >A group of Israeli rabbis, including the sister of comedian Sarah Silverman, launched Tuesday an Anne Frank-inspired activist program calling on Israelis to hide African asylum seekers facing forced expulsion

    (behind paywall)
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-like-anne-frank-rabbis-plan-to-hide-asylum-seekers-in-israeli-homes-1.5743500

    >Hundreds of Israeli rabbis on Tuesday said they are willing to hide upwards of 38,000 African asylum seekers facing deportation in coming months under the banner of one of Judaism's biggest heroes: Anne Frank.

    The campaign to protect the Africans, most of whom crossed Israel's border with Egypt in an attempt to flee regional civil wars and economic strife over the last decade, is organized by Rabbis for Human Rights, an Israeli organization based in Jerusalem whose ranks include Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of comedian Sarah Silverman.

    Inspired by the sanctuary movement in the United States, which aims to protect unauthorized immigrants from deportation, the group has donned their campaign The Anne Frank Home Sanctuary movement.

    (http://www.newsweek.com/israel-immigration-refugees-rabbis-anne-frank-deportation-783969)

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    “Hundreds” are “willing” to hide Africans. LOL.

    Anyway, call me when an Israeli gets fired from his job for “hate” or “racism” for being anti-immigration.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Good point. The story is essentially window dressing for the Goyim, and a feel-good fantasy for a tiny minority of left-wing FWP.
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  114. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us
     
    This.

    Citizenism was always a triple bank shot to keep whites as the majority of the population and to keep Anglo-Saxon culture and traditions as the backbone of society. It may have had a shot back in the 1980s or even as late as the 1990s, but it's certainly over now.

    People keep saying that whites can appeal to minorities' self-interest to back Citizenism. Baloney. When has that ever happened over a long period of time in a multi-racial society? The world is tribal. People will side with their corrupt elites before they'll side with honest non-tribe members. Look at blacks and Hispanics.

    All people but whites vote by tribe in a multi-racial society, and that may change here over time as even SJWs start to notice that other groups will never like them. Ripping on others because they may not have a better soluation doesn't change the fact that Citizenism won't work. Citizenism is not the least worst solution. It's a solution that won't work. Period. So stop acting as though it's still alive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218


    The best that I could see is a United States of reasonably equal groups gingerly working together. Every tribe to do the best for their own but realizing that pushing things too far could cause trouble. That's a somewhat workable solution.

    I moved to the blackest part of America as an adult.

    You find out quickly that Lee Kuan Yews point is not idle speculation. We basically don’t get a chance to have political debates because when one party is black, whites have to vote the other party (keeping in mind these parties sometimes switch). It’s just not even a choice.

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  115. Maj. Kong says:
    @Dmitry

    This is 100% about running interference with respect to public opinion in the US and UK. They finally figured out (probably with help from people like some of us) how it might look. Nothing more than that.

    Of course, thus far the ‘compliant’ media in the USA is making it even easier for them by ignoring the issue. But this will be excellent ‘cover’ should someone take note of it.
     

    The ADL has to think about its donors' (liberal Jews - many of whom follow 'with concern' events in Israeli politics) conscience. This is a 'charity' that depends on donations from wealthy liberals, and has effectively become a wing of the Democrat Party in the US.

    But in the case of Israel, there are very many liberals who genuinely want to keep all the illegal immigrants they can (the Supreme Court in Israel has been striking down every law encouraging them to leave, for the last 5 years). In Israel, educated people from upper-middle class demographics are often very passionately in favour of illegal immigrants. The rest of the public, not so much to put it mildly.

    Just take a look at the behaviour of the Supreme Court judges in Israel, who write articles about their role of advancing liberalism in the society.

    The Israeli Supreme Court appears to be somewhat self-selecting, and is the only branch of government to give representation to the Arab Minority. An Arab PM or President appears to be unspeakable, even asking for an Arab quota alongside a gender quota. But at the same time, Israel doesn’t have a written Constitution so the Court is much less powerful to permanently alter policy in the way the US Supreme Court does.

    What is more important, is that the Labor party has been reduced from its previous dominant state due to its weakness in reacting to the Intifada. But even Labor has an explicit policy of maintaining Israel as a supermajority Jewish state. In the US Congress, only Steve King of Iowa has explicitly said that whites should be the ethnic supermajority in the US, and he was still in favor of assimilation.

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  116. @Mr. Anon

    Thus spake the DorkRight.
     
    And you are - what - the Cuck-Right? The conservatives who have so far succeeded in conserving nothing.

    thats one thing I don’t understand.

    old republicans and conservatives have failed *catastrophically*. that’s an empirical observation. The question is why that empirical evidence hasn’t led them to check their assumptions and biases. why on EARTH should they be offering up things like, “in my opinion, the hard alt-right is all wrong.” your opinion? but we just established that your intuitions had everything wrong. Going against the intuitions of people who had a theory, tested it, and saw the evidence smash to smithereens what they “thought” was the right way is a *good thing*

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    But what makes you assume I'm an old R/conservative myself? By old you mean circa 2005ish, but the shit you're peddling here is ten times that old and twenty times as rancid.
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  117. @Jack D

    it’s crystal clear we can’t (and won’t) share a nation with them
     
    Who is this "we" that you speak of?

    Seriously, what's the plan? Expulsion? Extermination? Pitchforks? Marching with Tiki torches? Does the President's daughter and her family have to go too? I don't think POTUS will be too happy about that.

    Who is this “we” that you speak of?

    The people slated for exterminated by our elites.

    Seriously, what’s the plan? Expulsion? Extermination? Pitchforks? Marching with Tiki torches?

    Short term? Expulsion. Long term? See Malthus.

    Does the President’s daughter and her family have to go too? I don’t think POTUS will be too happy about that.

    Then he should take power and institute a monarchy. Jews are not an issue in an autocracy.

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  118. Well… Actually, Judaism derives virtually all it’s present-day importance from well-placed media Jews constantly, tiresomely blowing self-aggrandizing smoke up their own asses.

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  119. @Simon in London
    "the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise."

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich's Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer's race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don't equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

    Sailer’s race-blind Citizenism

    Sailer’s about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y’all are clear nuts.

    the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.

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    • Agree: IHTG
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys"


    Another quote Steve should understand comes to mind: you may not be interested in white genocide but white genocide is interested in you.



    Your strategy is madness because horseshoe theory is really, really dumb.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Sailer’s about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y’all are clear nuts.
     
    You're being disingenuous. Simon in London meant that Steve's citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy, not that Steve notices no differences between races.

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.
     
    That's a mischaracterization of Simon's position, based on his posting history here. And I haven't noticed you espousing anything that's especially helpful or likely to work. The only person I've seen you make common cause with here is Art Deco, who only pisses all over every idea, opinion, and commenter on this site.
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  120. @Simon in London
    "the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise."

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich's Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer's race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don't equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

    Actually, for people who aren’t sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their “side” where side is defined as broadly as “the alt right.”

    Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Matthew Heimbach, Greg Johnson, et al. say “yes” to that question so anyone saying “no” is either not alt-right or very confused. At a certain point it is what it is and no true Scotsman fallacies don’t help. When the inventor of the term alt-right and the ADL agree Anglin has the highest trafficked alt-right website, we can close the book on that question.

    And anyone who’s not alt-right will not be unsure of where they stand with Anglin, which is part of his charm. Milo, Ben Shapiro, et al. can tell you that. (Another part of his charm is, as Richard Spencer said when talking about all of the people on the alt-right who say they “used to be” libertarians, republicans or even libs*, “you never hear someone say they were devoted to the daily stormer but now they’re a moderate cuckservative.”

    *we are going to get the younger, saner Bernie bros like we got the younger, saner libertarians. libs are going to keep doubling down on anti-white male rhetoric and action.

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    • Replies: @3g4me
    @110 anonymouselee: "Actually, for people who aren’t sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their “side” where side is defined as broadly as “the alt right.”

    While I'm only an occasional and intermittent reader of The Stormer, The Right Stuff, Counter Currents, etc., those who disagree with you here would dismiss me as a "reichtard" for not automatically denouncing them as beyond the pale. As an earlier commenter noted, it is quite easy to notice patterns, condemn hypocrisy and double standards, and place the welfare of your own people and nation above that of others without worshiping Hitler or making oven memes (the majority are tongue-in-cheek anyhow and don't bother me any more than suggesting helicopter rides).

    I would argue that the true "test" of whether or not one is legitimately alt-right is the ability to say and support the 14 words unreservedly (We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children). From what I seem to recall of Simon's earlier comments here and elsewhere, this represents a major step for him. For numerous other commenters, there would be various sticking points or qualifiers or addenda. I realize there are other, equally legitimate definitions, but merely recognizing the reality of HBD is obviously insufficient with this blog as evidence. What commenters like Desiderius describe as the "center" (i.e. between color-blind or even color-wary citizenism and explicit, 100% racially-pure ethnonationalism) is, to me, a large part of the alt-right. HBD aware, ethnonationalist, pro-White, and still encompassing a range of people who vary in the degrees of racial purity they're willing to accept as White and with just as many differing economic and social and religious beliefs. Feel free to correct or remark on my comment as the spirit moves you; I merely offer this as my own take on the issue.

    , @Desiderius
    If that’s what the alt-right is, you’ll have about as much influence as a furry convention. I wonder if deep down inside that’s the way you like it.

    At one time, alt right just meant an alternative to Conservative, Inc. In conjunction with the propaganda organs of the corrupt media/academy, you and yours have managed to make it into a safe space for dorks and spergs and - it goes without saying - no one else.

    Good luck winning your little revolution with that lot.
    , @Opinionator
    You and your little clique are doing a fine job of divide and conquer. Cui bono?
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  121. @Mr. Anon

    Thus spake the DorkRight.
     
    And you are - what - the Cuck-Right? The conservatives who have so far succeeded in conserving nothing.

    If those are the only two options, we’re truly screwed.

    Thankfully, most of our minds aren’t so pathetically cramped.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    thats the thing about politics, isnt it? you dont get to choose the world you face. you dont get to choose your set of options. its not fair, its reality.

    yeah, we are screwed. we are deep in the hole and steve keeps telling them to quit digging; some of us have to be more ambitious.


    "Thankfully, most of our minds aren’t so pathetically cramped."

    nobody is stopping you from offering your suggestions on how to best serve us and our posterity, as the constitution says. we want to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children and were the only game in town for that. were called the alt-right and youre welcome to join if you wont faint when someone calls you a nazi--we face worse than that, i promise you. nobody says you have to agree with everything anyone in the alt-right says. come along and build it if you care about whats
    being made.
    , @Mr. Anon

    If those are the only two options, we’re truly screwed.
     
    I hope they are not our only options. But you must admit that events sometime bring about situations where options are limited. I'm not saying that such a situation has come to pass now, but it might someday. There were probably people in Spain in the mid thirties who weren't wild about Franco on the whole, but decided that he was a safer bet than living under communist rule. Given everything that followed, they weren't wrong.
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  122. @anonymouslee
    What did Steve say Reagan said about the Cold War?

    The idea is that we win and they lose.


    Mexicans are going back. Blacks can leave or perhaps stay under apartheid. No political enfranchisement or welfare, though, so they'll leave.

    People talk about it being impossible to make people leave but that's a joke. They get here easily enough in the first place and they can walk out the exact same way. It will take relatively minor incentives and that's it.

    The once and future America is a free republic on the North American continent for a European people, a citizenry and its posterity. It's not at all hard to see what the idea is.


    The plan for realizing it is simple: we become the political movement for young white men, some of whom right now are being born prisoners in their own country. Everyone else in this country is living off the backs of and at the pleasure of white men. They will find that out with our backs against the wall.

    People talk about it being impossible to make people leave but that’s a joke. They get here easily enough in the first place and they can walk out the exact same way. It will take relatively minor incentives and that’s it.

    I once said: They came here by ordinary means and they will leave by ordinary means.

    Great posts on this thread. I don’t think it’s worthwhile to try to change Steve’s mind on the JQ, but, go for it if you want to.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I won't change his mind but I respect him so it's worth saying.

    I've had plenty of discussions about the boomer question with the heavy hitters of the alt-right. It's unfortunate because they're not getting it but theyre still going to be around for a while.
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  123. @bomag
    I agree here.

    Places that work do so based on some form of citizenism: various ethnic enclaves; Israel, for that matter; historic Europe; etc.

    The fact that citizenism is not permitted in the United States and comes under increasing attack whenever it is advocated is strong evidence that it in fact works and is powerful. They fear citizenism.

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    • Replies: @Rabbi High Comma
    "The fact that citizenism is not permitted in the United States and comes under increasing attack whenever it is advocated is strong evidence that it in fact works and is powerful. They fear citizenism."

    Or maybe our enemies would rather have the whole pie vs half of it? The Civ Nat "melting pot" was discarded for multiculturalism the moment the left could get away with it. You're arguing with the referees that the opposing team should be called on a penalty, and the ball moved back 10 yards. I wish you luck.

    I can write up a lengthy list of things the left works against in the US, yet you place your pet hobby horse as the "holy water" to their vampire....with zero evidence. The hyperventilating from the left over the smaller AltRight is orders of magnitude louder and more venal. Candidate Clinton gave a speech warn people about a cartoon frog.

    Have you spent time attending LaRaza meetings to educate them on the wonders of "citizenship"? If not, why not? Are these not the people you need to convince? With all due respect, you sound like a Boomer who wants to ensure the wheels stay on this sh*tshow exactly one day longer than you live.
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  124. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Jimi Shmendrix
    Why "predict" when you can simply click the link and read for yourself what Shapiro says?

    And here's a little inconvenient truth for all the commenters who, instead of clicking through and reading the articles chose to focus on the "money shot" in Steve's synopsis to beat the dead horse about Israel's borders:

    Y'all are guilty of the exact same intellectual laziness and lack of meaningful insight that results in the Weismans of the world and their ilk to who come to think the way they do.

    People who rely on slogans to form their "opinions" rarely if ever have anything of substance to add to a conversation.

    I did (see upthread). Predictions let us check what we know. For example, you predicted that I did not click through, but did not check your own prediction.

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  125. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Neil Templeton
    I don't think Steve is trying to remind Jews of anything. I think he's trying to help some of us figure something out. Apparently you've already got it figured out. If so, please school me on why Jews clearly see Whites as the enemy when the evidence here and elsewhere indicates that many Jews do not see Whites as the enemy. Please school me on the fundamental ideological differences between Old Testament Jews and Old Testament Crackers. Please identify whether this statement comes from a Jew or White American: "I just want to be left alone."

    The Jews who do not see whites as the enemy are the Jews who do not have a column in the New York Times, a show on NPR, a university chair, a billion-dollar foundation, or an office in the State Department.

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  126. istevefan says:
    @Mr. Anon

    They don’t believe in closed borders for Israel either. These guys are not intelligent enough to have this kind of double thinking I have read attributed to them. They think immigrants are the ‘best thing since sliced bread’, and that is that.
     
    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren't so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I'm guessing.............No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it's all so regrettable - I'm really against it, but.....................

    That's a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we're really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) - just give us a majority, and we'll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu's planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599


    http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/A-Jewish-philanthropist-furious-at-Israeli-treatment-of-African-refugees-534599

    "American Jewish protests against the planned deportation have been relatively muted and confined to Jewish groups that are less reluctant to criticize the Israeli government on policy issues. A recent exchange with Israel’s Foreign Ministry on the matter was signed by HIAS, the lead Jewish immigration advocacy group, leaders of the Reform movement, the National Council of Jewish Women and J Street, the liberal Middle East policy group, among other groups.

    Even these groups, fighting what they see as threats to immigrants and minorities in the era of President Donald Trump, lack the bandwidth to make this a priority issue.

    “The American Jewish community can be moved on these issues,” said Libby Lenkinski, the vice president for public engagement for the New Israel Fund, which funds groups that assist the African refugees in Israel. “But between that and making it a cause celebre? There’s some distance.”

    “We’re obviously fighting on a lot of fronts right now for fairness and justice for refugees,” said Melanie Nezer, the vice president for public affairs at HIAS. “It would be nice to have one problem – we don’t.”
     

    In any event, even if there are jewish groups that unhypocritically advocate the same crazy stuff for Israel that they wish on the US, that doesn't mean their advocacy here is of no consequence, or that I shouldn't take notice of it.

    .No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.

    This is similar to when a member of Congress from a highly competitive district gets to vote against their party’s position on a particular issue because the party knows they already have enough votes. So they allow a particular member to publicly go against them knowing, a) it won’t affect the outcome, and b) it will help that member in a tough reelection campaign.

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  127. @Simon in London
    "the alt-lite mask has come off and they’ve been increasingly revealing themselves as neo-cons. surprise, surprise."

    Actually I think the Alt-Lite has fragmented and come apart:

    Some have clearly joined the Alt Right (Faith Goldy)
    Some have joined the Neocohens (Ben Shapiro)
    Some are staking out a moderate Identitarian position between the Darkness and the Lite (Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone)

    I am extremely sympathetic to the final category, which overlaps with those former & current Alt Right like RamzPaul and Vox Day who have disavowed the Alt-Reich's Stormerism*.

    This moderate ethnonationalist/Identitarian cohort I think clearly does differ from Steve Sailer's race-blind Citizenism, though I suspect Sailer has at least some sympathy with their position. But he, like Trump, may still hope for a non-ethnonationalist solution. I guess I was in the same position 5 year ago, but it seems untenable now that the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution. In this extremely hostile environment, we have to accept that we need to take our own side.

    We have to secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children.

    *Just to clarify, I don't equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

    Just to clarify, I don’t equate the Alt Right with the Alt-Reich Stormerists.

    What’s the difference? You posted the 14 words yourself…

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  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius
    If those are the only two options, we're truly screwed.

    Thankfully, most of our minds aren't so pathetically cramped.

    thats the thing about politics, isnt it? you dont get to choose the world you face. you dont get to choose your set of options. its not fair, its reality.

    yeah, we are screwed. we are deep in the hole and steve keeps telling them to quit digging; some of us have to be more ambitious.

    “Thankfully, most of our minds aren’t so pathetically cramped.”

    nobody is stopping you from offering your suggestions on how to best serve us and our posterity, as the constitution says. we want to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children and were the only game in town for that. were called the alt-right and youre welcome to join if you wont faint when someone calls you a nazi–we face worse than that, i promise you. nobody says you have to agree with everything anyone in the alt-right says. come along and build it if you care about whats
    being made.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    were the only game in town for that
     
    The ignorance. It burns.

    Y'all do your dork thing. Pretty sure you're too ridiculous to do any actual damage.
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  129. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @27 year old

    People talk about it being impossible to make people leave but that’s a joke. They get here easily enough in the first place and they can walk out the exact same way. It will take relatively minor incentives and that’s it.
     
    I once said: They came here by ordinary means and they will leave by ordinary means.

    Great posts on this thread. I don't think it's worthwhile to try to change Steve's mind on the JQ, but, go for it if you want to.

    I won’t change his mind but I respect him so it’s worth saying.

    I’ve had plenty of discussions about the boomer question with the heavy hitters of the alt-right. It’s unfortunate because they’re not getting it but theyre still going to be around for a while.

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  130. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @rogue-one
    From Hareetz

    >Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of U.S. comedian Sarah, is behind initiative to support some 40,000 Sudanese and Eritrean migrants who are facing forced deportation from Israel


    >A group of Israeli rabbis, including the sister of comedian Sarah Silverman, launched Tuesday an Anne Frank-inspired activist program calling on Israelis to hide African asylum seekers facing forced expulsion

    (behind paywall)
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-like-anne-frank-rabbis-plan-to-hide-asylum-seekers-in-israeli-homes-1.5743500

    >Hundreds of Israeli rabbis on Tuesday said they are willing to hide upwards of 38,000 African asylum seekers facing deportation in coming months under the banner of one of Judaism's biggest heroes: Anne Frank.

    The campaign to protect the Africans, most of whom crossed Israel's border with Egypt in an attempt to flee regional civil wars and economic strife over the last decade, is organized by Rabbis for Human Rights, an Israeli organization based in Jerusalem whose ranks include Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of comedian Sarah Silverman.

    Inspired by the sanctuary movement in the United States, which aims to protect unauthorized immigrants from deportation, the group has donned their campaign The Anne Frank Home Sanctuary movement.

    (http://www.newsweek.com/israel-immigration-refugees-rabbis-anne-frank-deportation-783969)

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    But they do. They know that this isn’t actually going to stop any of these people from getting deported. They say they want to let these people stay. But wait a couple of years and see how distraught they are once they’re gone. They’re just saying this so people will quit pointing out their obvious hypocrisy.

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    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    If 11 million illegals were deported from our country tomorrow, how many Americans would be distraught two years hence? The pleasures of sanctimony are not reserved for Jews.
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  131. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Desiderius

    Sailer’s race-blind Citizenism
     
    Sailer's about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y'all are clear nuts.

    the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution

     

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.

    “Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys”

    Another quote Steve should understand comes to mind: you may not be interested in white genocide but white genocide is interested in you.

    Your strategy is madness because horseshoe theory is really, really dumb.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Boy the non-sequitur spouting spergs keep coming out of the woodwork on this thread.

    you may not be interested in white genocide

     

    My interest in (fighting) white genocide was stated in the clause immediately preceding the one you quoted. It's the interest in white genocide on the part of our adversaries that leaves the middle wide open in the first place.

    Your strategy is madness because horseshoe theory is really, really dumb.
     
    My strategy has absolutely nothing to do with horseshoe theory. Just because you're a dipshit it doesn't follow that you're left-wing.
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  132. @Seth Largo
    I'm not sure Plato's eidoi or Hume's empiricism can be summed up as "they do not accept that objective reality exists or is knowable." Certainly not Plato, who countered this very position as articulated by Gorgias.

    In my reading, 20th century physicists' position on "reality" tended more toward the mystical: not a denial of "reality" but a deep humility about any individual human's knowing its deepest workings. And, of course, they were talking about physics, not politics or morality or social policy. Owen Barfield's work offers the best humanistic treatment of the philosophical musings of 20th century physicists. He accepted that common-sense "reality" was not what it appeared, but he was still a crusty old Tory and high church Anglican who, like his friend C.S. Lewis, was not thrilled by the social engineering of the 1950s and 60s.

    Indeed, if we cannot know objective reality, the last thing we as a a species should be doing is engineering society according to our limited knowledge.

    Epistemology is distinct from ontology.

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  133. 3g4me says:
    @anonymouslee
    Actually, for people who aren't sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their "side" where side is defined as broadly as "the alt right."

    Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Matthew Heimbach, Greg Johnson, et al. say "yes" to that question so anyone saying "no" is either not alt-right or very confused. At a certain point it is what it is and no true Scotsman fallacies don't help. When the inventor of the term alt-right and the ADL agree Anglin has the highest trafficked alt-right website, we can close the book on that question.

    And anyone who's not alt-right will not be unsure of where they stand with Anglin, which is part of his charm. Milo, Ben Shapiro, et al. can tell you that. (Another part of his charm is, as Richard Spencer said when talking about all of the people on the alt-right who say they "used to be" libertarians, republicans or even libs*, "you never hear someone say they were devoted to the daily stormer but now they're a moderate cuckservative."

    *we are going to get the younger, saner Bernie bros like we got the younger, saner libertarians. libs are going to keep doubling down on anti-white male rhetoric and action.

    @110 anonymouselee: “Actually, for people who aren’t sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their “side” where side is defined as broadly as “the alt right.”

    While I’m only an occasional and intermittent reader of The Stormer, The Right Stuff, Counter Currents, etc., those who disagree with you here would dismiss me as a “reichtard” for not automatically denouncing them as beyond the pale. As an earlier commenter noted, it is quite easy to notice patterns, condemn hypocrisy and double standards, and place the welfare of your own people and nation above that of others without worshiping Hitler or making oven memes (the majority are tongue-in-cheek anyhow and don’t bother me any more than suggesting helicopter rides).

    I would argue that the true “test” of whether or not one is legitimately alt-right is the ability to say and support the 14 words unreservedly (We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children). From what I seem to recall of Simon’s earlier comments here and elsewhere, this represents a major step for him. For numerous other commenters, there would be various sticking points or qualifiers or addenda. I realize there are other, equally legitimate definitions, but merely recognizing the reality of HBD is obviously insufficient with this blog as evidence. What commenters like Desiderius describe as the “center” (i.e. between color-blind or even color-wary citizenism and explicit, 100% racially-pure ethnonationalism) is, to me, a large part of the alt-right. HBD aware, ethnonationalist, pro-White, and still encompassing a range of people who vary in the degrees of racial purity they’re willing to accept as White and with just as many differing economic and social and religious beliefs. Feel free to correct or remark on my comment as the spirit moves you; I merely offer this as my own take on the issue.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Exactly.

    The 14 words are fine. Anyone who has a problem with them is objectively anti-white.

    Same goes for blacks and Jews though, and American means more to me than white.
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  134. @anonymouslee
    Actually, for people who aren't sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their "side" where side is defined as broadly as "the alt right."

    Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Matthew Heimbach, Greg Johnson, et al. say "yes" to that question so anyone saying "no" is either not alt-right or very confused. At a certain point it is what it is and no true Scotsman fallacies don't help. When the inventor of the term alt-right and the ADL agree Anglin has the highest trafficked alt-right website, we can close the book on that question.

    And anyone who's not alt-right will not be unsure of where they stand with Anglin, which is part of his charm. Milo, Ben Shapiro, et al. can tell you that. (Another part of his charm is, as Richard Spencer said when talking about all of the people on the alt-right who say they "used to be" libertarians, republicans or even libs*, "you never hear someone say they were devoted to the daily stormer but now they're a moderate cuckservative."

    *we are going to get the younger, saner Bernie bros like we got the younger, saner libertarians. libs are going to keep doubling down on anti-white male rhetoric and action.

    If that’s what the alt-right is, you’ll have about as much influence as a furry convention. I wonder if deep down inside that’s the way you like it.

    At one time, alt right just meant an alternative to Conservative, Inc. In conjunction with the propaganda organs of the corrupt media/academy, you and yours have managed to make it into a safe space for dorks and spergs and – it goes without saying – no one else.

    Good luck winning your little revolution with that lot.

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    • Agree: IHTG
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  135. IHTG says:
    @Desiderius
    Thus spake the DorkRight.

    Always amuses me how much the concept of “Citizenism” triggers these types when it’s basically just a clever rhetorical tactic for arguing for immigration restriction.

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  136. Becky says:

    Whether we’re talking about leftist Jews (Leninist) like Weisman, or neocons like mental Ben Shapiro (Trotskyite), they are ALL Marxist. Semitism is Jewish supremacy. I’m not referring to all Jews, but the politically ideological.

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  137. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period - and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin’s Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin’s Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.
     
    Your post might make sense if you invert it. Yeltsin’s Russia (1990s Russia) sucked for Jewish community, which is why the majority of the country's entire Jewish community had emigrated from Russia by the end of the decade (the mass emigration only ended in the early 2000s, when the country started to recover under an oil boom - resulting in hundred of thousands of Jews returned http://rense.com/general65/100000formersovietjews.htm) . While, far worse still, was Weimar Germany (in fact this entire period of war and interwar crisis for Germany which lasted from 1914-1945), which resulted by winter 1941 in the Nazis reaching Moscow - and ongoing attempts to murder every Jewish person all along the way.

    Read the post again:

    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period – and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

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  138. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Hippopotamusdrome


    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

     

    "Hundreds" are "willing" to hide Africans. LOL.

    Anyway, call me when an Israeli gets fired from his job for "hate" or "racism" for being anti-immigration.

    Good point. The story is essentially window dressing for the Goyim, and a feel-good fantasy for a tiny minority of left-wing FWP.

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  139. @Opinionator
    The fact that citizenism is not permitted in the United States and comes under increasing attack whenever it is advocated is strong evidence that it in fact works and is powerful. They fear citizenism.

    “The fact that citizenism is not permitted in the United States and comes under increasing attack whenever it is advocated is strong evidence that it in fact works and is powerful. They fear citizenism.”

    Or maybe our enemies would rather have the whole pie vs half of it? The Civ Nat “melting pot” was discarded for multiculturalism the moment the left could get away with it. You’re arguing with the referees that the opposing team should be called on a penalty, and the ball moved back 10 yards. I wish you luck.

    I can write up a lengthy list of things the left works against in the US, yet you place your pet hobby horse as the “holy water” to their vampire….with zero evidence. The hyperventilating from the left over the smaller AltRight is orders of magnitude louder and more venal. Candidate Clinton gave a speech warn people about a cartoon frog.

    Have you spent time attending LaRaza meetings to educate them on the wonders of “citizenship”? If not, why not? Are these not the people you need to convince? With all due respect, you sound like a Boomer who wants to ensure the wheels stay on this sh*tshow exactly one day longer than you live.

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  140. @anonymouslee
    Actually, for people who aren't sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their "side" where side is defined as broadly as "the alt right."

    Richard Spencer, Mike Enoch, Matthew Heimbach, Greg Johnson, et al. say "yes" to that question so anyone saying "no" is either not alt-right or very confused. At a certain point it is what it is and no true Scotsman fallacies don't help. When the inventor of the term alt-right and the ADL agree Anglin has the highest trafficked alt-right website, we can close the book on that question.

    And anyone who's not alt-right will not be unsure of where they stand with Anglin, which is part of his charm. Milo, Ben Shapiro, et al. can tell you that. (Another part of his charm is, as Richard Spencer said when talking about all of the people on the alt-right who say they "used to be" libertarians, republicans or even libs*, "you never hear someone say they were devoted to the daily stormer but now they're a moderate cuckservative."

    *we are going to get the younger, saner Bernie bros like we got the younger, saner libertarians. libs are going to keep doubling down on anti-white male rhetoric and action.

    You and your little clique are doing a fine job of divide and conquer. Cui bono?

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  141. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Citizenism died on the vine. It was never adopted and it’d be insane to keep pushing it as things get worse and worse. It missed the window it needed to make sense for us
     
    This.

    Citizenism was always a triple bank shot to keep whites as the majority of the population and to keep Anglo-Saxon culture and traditions as the backbone of society. It may have had a shot back in the 1980s or even as late as the 1990s, but it's certainly over now.

    People keep saying that whites can appeal to minorities' self-interest to back Citizenism. Baloney. When has that ever happened over a long period of time in a multi-racial society? The world is tribal. People will side with their corrupt elites before they'll side with honest non-tribe members. Look at blacks and Hispanics.

    All people but whites vote by tribe in a multi-racial society, and that may change here over time as even SJWs start to notice that other groups will never like them. Ripping on others because they may not have a better soluation doesn't change the fact that Citizenism won't work. Citizenism is not the least worst solution. It's a solution that won't work. Period. So stop acting as though it's still alive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218


    The best that I could see is a United States of reasonably equal groups gingerly working together. Every tribe to do the best for their own but realizing that pushing things too far could cause trouble. That's a somewhat workable solution.

    How can citizenism work when the only political options are two variations on right-wing liberalism, an ideology which is explicitly opposed to nationalism?

    For the majority of citizens to vote in a non-tribal way you need more options. For citizenism to work you at least need four voting options: a populist party, a socialist/green party, a liberal/libertarian party and a conservative party. The populist party would provide an option for working class whites and blacks who lean left on economic matters, and right on social issues. Providing a libertarian/liberal party option for urban yuppies and SWPLs would help counter the excessive power of the military industrial complex.

    Citizenism might work, but it requires radical changes to the political system to override entrenched voting patterns. And right-wing liberals and conservatives would probably have to accept higher taxes in return for greater patriotism from the poor. A poor black man isn’t going to vote for immigration restrictionism if you threaten to take away his welfare.

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  142. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous
    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin's Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.

    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin’s Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.

    Your post might make sense if you invert it. Yeltsin’s Russia (1990s Russia) sucked for Jewish community, which is why the majority of the country’s entire Jewish community had emigrated from Russia by the end of the decade (the mass emigration only ended in the early 2000s, when the country started to recover under an oil boom – resulting in hundred of thousands of Jews returned http://rense.com/general65/100000formersovietjews.htm) . While, far worse still, was Weimar Germany (in fact this entire period of war and interwar crisis for Germany which lasted from 1914-1945), which resulted by winter 1941 in the Nazis reaching Moscow – and ongoing attempts to murder every Jewish person all along the way.

    Read the post again:

    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period – and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So Jew oligarchs did not exist in either nineties Russia or twenties Germany? This is simple dishonesty. We're clearly at odds in class and time scale. You're talking about mere Jews and anybody else would be talking about consequential Jews.
    , @Becky
    Not quite, Yeltsin appointed lots of oligarchs the vast majority of which were Jews, and they proceeded to go to town trying to do what they've ultimately done in Ukraine.
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  143. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    That may be. Judging by the comments to the article you linked, there certainly are Israelis who aren’t so wild about the actions of their american cousins.

    Then again, what are those groups willing to do to make Israel live up to their ideals? Stage a Boycott? Advocate sanctions? I’m guessing………….No. And, maybe, they are just paying lip-service to the ideal: You know, it’s all so regrettable – I’m really against it, but…………………

    That’s a trick the Republican party has played on its constituents for a long time: Yeah, we’re really against that (immigration, abortion, affirmative action, etc.) – just give us a majority, and we’ll get right on that.

    This article tends to indicate that while groups like HIAS are opposed to Netanyahu’s planned deportations, it might not be their highest priority:
     

    Jewish or not. They are still foreigners to Israel - sympathetic foreigners, but still not people who have to live with the consequences.

    So the fact they are protesting against a minor, internal policy issue happening in a country they don't live in is already a bit insane.

    This doesn't create a good image of American Jewish politics with the ordinary public in Israel. On the other hand, the liberal elites in Israel see them as a kind of role-model to emulate.

    However, these statements by American Jewish groups will nowadays have little influence on policy in Israel, whereas in the 1990s they might have - before the country's own liberal elite fell out of favour.

    One thing about Israel, is that Trump style politics has already been going on in the Likud Party for a decade or so. People like Miri Regev are behaving like total clowns, but getting more and more popular, as they have the ability to enrage the same kind of pretentious demographics that Trump enrages in the United States.

    It is easy and convenient to protest against Israeli treatment of Africans when it is well known that the situations wont be broadcast in US news like CNN or MSNBC , and while it is well known no USA leader will have the balls to raise it as humanitarian issue . Until and unless the issues are raised by Muslim murder advocates like the neocons of the ilk of Schumer, Krystol, Podhoretz, Goldberg, Goldberg, Gaffney,Bolton, FDD, Israeli Project, Stand With Israel types – these calm calculated complaint against Israeli treatment have no value no relevance. It is just for show.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    There's nothing for show. The California Jewish group New Israel Fund (which is financed by $30 million a year from American Jews), is successfully preventing the deportation of illegal immigrants from Israel.

    If you don't know Hebrew, please use a translation tool to read the last paragraphs in the article (the American Jewish groups like New Israel Fund are very successful at bypassing Israel's laws to prevent deportation - they also work in all kinds of imaginable ways to undermine Israeli policy for their liberal goals - through legal systems, through international law, using lawyers, using propagandists like 'Breaking the Silence').

    https://mida.org.il/2018/01/18/%D7%91%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%93%D7%99-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%93%D7%9C-%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%9C%D7%90-%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%9C%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91/

    They are also going to hide illegal immigrants
    https://mida.org.il/2018/01/17/%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%94-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%99-%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%92%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A9-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A1/

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  144. MarcB. says:

    Whatever their crippling affliction, it doesn’t affect us on the alt right. We all love Jared Taylor but not one person on the alt-right (the real white nationalist movement, not “alt-right” qua trump voter) takes his position on the JQ.

    If the official Alt Right becomes a hive-mind. it will stay an echo chamber filled only with drones.

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  145. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin’s Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.
     
    Your post might make sense if you invert it. Yeltsin’s Russia (1990s Russia) sucked for Jewish community, which is why the majority of the country's entire Jewish community had emigrated from Russia by the end of the decade (the mass emigration only ended in the early 2000s, when the country started to recover under an oil boom - resulting in hundred of thousands of Jews returned http://rense.com/general65/100000formersovietjews.htm) . While, far worse still, was Weimar Germany (in fact this entire period of war and interwar crisis for Germany which lasted from 1914-1945), which resulted by winter 1941 in the Nazis reaching Moscow - and ongoing attempts to murder every Jewish person all along the way.

    Read the post again:

    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period – and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

    So Jew oligarchs did not exist in either nineties Russia or twenties Germany? This is simple dishonesty. We’re clearly at odds in class and time scale. You’re talking about mere Jews and anybody else would be talking about consequential Jews.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    There's ten times (arbitrary number, which is probably an underestimate) more Jewish (and equally non-Jewish) oligarchs/rich people in Russia today, than there were in most of the 1990s years. Likewise, during the 1990s, the Jewish community was evaporating. Whereas during the 2000s, it has revitalized (albeit from the largely evaporated point that the 1990s brought it to). And finally, in terms of specific anti-Jewish xenophobia, it again fell rapidly during the 2000s (while during the 1990s, the opposite pattern was occurring).
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  146. EriK says:
    @Ricky Vaughn
    Vox Day is another anti-Semite obsessed with the so called “Jewish Question.” He was hightlighted as such by the ADL. You should be disavowing him.

    Vox Day is another anti-Semite obsessed with the so called “Jewish Question.” He was hightlighted as such by the ADL. You should be disavowing him.

    I disavow the ADL

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  147. @anonymouslee
    thats one thing I don't understand.

    old republicans and conservatives have failed *catastrophically*. that's an empirical observation. The question is why that empirical evidence hasn't led them to check their assumptions and biases. why on EARTH should they be offering up things like, "in my opinion, the hard alt-right is all wrong." your opinion? but we just established that your intuitions had everything wrong. Going against the intuitions of people who had a theory, tested it, and saw the evidence smash to smithereens what they "thought" was the right way is a *good thing*

    But what makes you assume I’m an old R/conservative myself? By old you mean circa 2005ish, but the shit you’re peddling here is ten times that old and twenty times as rancid.

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  148. According to Weisman, Judaism derives its present-day importance from the way it provides a religious echo to secular leftism. This is his actual opening sentence: “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.” Thus does he describe a people whose binding glue over the millennia is a faith tradition literally designed to separate its adherents from those who are not their co-religionists.

    This is really a great snippet–from both guys.

    I disagree with Shapiro on a bunch of stuff around the alt-right and Trump. But i’ve got to admire the honest clarity of this:

    Thus does he describe a people whose binding glue over the millennia is a faith tradition literally designed to separate its adherents from those who are not their co-religionists.

    Contemporary Jews have put out the most ludicrously false narrative that their ancestors were just Tikkun-olamy MLKish content-of-their-character integrationists, only to be repeatedly beset by racist goyim yelling “Christ killers!” and telling them to go back to picking cotton … or loaning money … or something.

    This is pretty much the absolute reverse of the truth. Christianity is a universalist religion open to all and gentile society was highly integrationist. The ancient European tribes are gone. There simply are no Picts or Gauls or Goths or Angles or Vandals left. They were all absorbed into the common genetic legacy of particular regions and nations. The two tribes that refused integration–the Jews and later the gypsies–worked very hard to stay separate. Most of the proscriptions accreted onto Judaism over the years serve to separate Jews and discourage their interations with Gentiles–a bunch of them explicitly, serving no other purpose. A Jew who–all freedom of religiony–decided to hang out with Gentiles would lose his livelyhood and his family. He’d be cut off. (And become my ancestor instead of Ben Shapiro’s). Jews survived as a separate tribe because they *wanted* to be a separate tribe and worked very hard at separatism. Judaism pitched as an ideology of integration and we-are-the-world cosmopolitanism is a ridiculous reverse-of-reality joke.

    Kudos for Shapiro for the honesty of pointing that out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    But, you've got to love Weisman's statement as well:

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”
     
    Of course, this isn't accurate. No history scholar, but seems pretty clear to me that Jews have flourish when:
    1) When they were protected by the rulers of the state. Sometimes just for access to their capital, but often for whom they would provide services--i.e. tax farming.
    or
    2) When they found their way to open, very high trust gentile societies--products of precisely the particular bio-culture evolution of gentiles that Jewish tribalism/separatism rejected most vehemently. Most obviously the United States and rest of the Anglo-sphere.

    But even if we take Weisman at his word and say "sure" ...

    Why does this make any of this good? His statement is basically no borders is "good for the Jews!" But that doesn't make it moral or wise or sound policy. The relevant question is "What is good for the people, for the nation as a whole?" And this policy, while edge cases may be arguable, is pretty obviously negative--a disaster in fact!--for people and the nation.

    But it's nice to see Weisman lay out his philosophical axioms so clearly. Even though he is not even religious, Weisman articulates "it's good for the Jews" ... and that means it's the right thing to do! Doesn't matter that he's almost certainly wrong--at least for the Jews long term. The interesting bit here is that "it's good for the Jews" is enough. Because that to him--he doesn't even have to state it or probably even think about it--sanctifies it in his moral universe. Jews are special, holy and their interest and impulses should carry the day. Screw whoever else happens to inhabit a society.
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  149. Dmitry says:
    @J.Ross
    So Jew oligarchs did not exist in either nineties Russia or twenties Germany? This is simple dishonesty. We're clearly at odds in class and time scale. You're talking about mere Jews and anybody else would be talking about consequential Jews.

    There’s ten times (arbitrary number, which is probably an underestimate) more Jewish (and equally non-Jewish) oligarchs/rich people in Russia today, than there were in most of the 1990s years. Likewise, during the 1990s, the Jewish community was evaporating. Whereas during the 2000s, it has revitalized (albeit from the largely evaporated point that the 1990s brought it to). And finally, in terms of specific anti-Jewish xenophobia, it again fell rapidly during the 2000s (while during the 1990s, the opposite pattern was occurring).

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    What is the meaning of these numbers in this argument? Why don't you see the difference between the Jew who, in Jack D's terms, "owns a furniture store" (which still sounds wealthy to me) and the Jew who controls a national telecommunications monopoly? During the Cold War, when people talked about "the Russians," did you think they meant Sturgeon fishermen? Perhaps more to the point, what does the Jew who owns a national telecommunications monopoly care about the Jew who owns a furniture store?
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  150. @AnotherDad

    According to Weisman, Judaism derives its present-day importance from the way it provides a religious echo to secular leftism. This is his actual opening sentence: “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.” Thus does he describe a people whose binding glue over the millennia is a faith tradition literally designed to separate its adherents from those who are not their co-religionists.
     
    This is really a great snippet--from both guys.

    I disagree with Shapiro on a bunch of stuff around the alt-right and Trump. But i've got to admire the honest clarity of this:


    Thus does he describe a people whose binding glue over the millennia is a faith tradition literally designed to separate its adherents from those who are not their co-religionists.
     
    Contemporary Jews have put out the most ludicrously false narrative that their ancestors were just Tikkun-olamy MLKish content-of-their-character integrationists, only to be repeatedly beset by racist goyim yelling "Christ killers!" and telling them to go back to picking cotton ... or loaning money ... or something.

    This is pretty much the absolute reverse of the truth. Christianity is a universalist religion open to all and gentile society was highly integrationist. The ancient European tribes are gone. There simply are no Picts or Gauls or Goths or Angles or Vandals left. They were all absorbed into the common genetic legacy of particular regions and nations. The two tribes that refused integration--the Jews and later the gypsies--worked very hard to stay separate. Most of the proscriptions accreted onto Judaism over the years serve to separate Jews and discourage their interations with Gentiles--a bunch of them explicitly, serving no other purpose. A Jew who--all freedom of religiony--decided to hang out with Gentiles would lose his livelyhood and his family. He'd be cut off. (And become my ancestor instead of Ben Shapiro's). Jews survived as a separate tribe because they *wanted* to be a separate tribe and worked very hard at separatism. Judaism pitched as an ideology of integration and we-are-the-world cosmopolitanism is a ridiculous reverse-of-reality joke.

    Kudos for Shapiro for the honesty of pointing that out.

    But, you’ve got to love Weisman’s statement as well:

    “The Jew flourishes when borders come down, when boundaries blur, when walls are destroyed, not erected.”

    Of course, this isn’t accurate. No history scholar, but seems pretty clear to me that Jews have flourish when:
    1) When they were protected by the rulers of the state. Sometimes just for access to their capital, but often for whom they would provide services–i.e. tax farming.
    or
    2) When they found their way to open, very high trust gentile societies–products of precisely the particular bio-culture evolution of gentiles that Jewish tribalism/separatism rejected most vehemently. Most obviously the United States and rest of the Anglo-sphere.

    But even if we take Weisman at his word and say “sure” …

    Why does this make any of this good? His statement is basically no borders is “good for the Jews!” But that doesn’t make it moral or wise or sound policy. The relevant question is “What is good for the people, for the nation as a whole?” And this policy, while edge cases may be arguable, is pretty obviously negative–a disaster in fact!–for people and the nation.

    But it’s nice to see Weisman lay out his philosophical axioms so clearly. Even though he is not even religious, Weisman articulates “it’s good for the Jews” … and that means it’s the right thing to do! Doesn’t matter that he’s almost certainly wrong–at least for the Jews long term. The interesting bit here is that “it’s good for the Jews” is enough. Because that to him–he doesn’t even have to state it or probably even think about it–sanctifies it in his moral universe. Jews are special, holy and their interest and impulses should carry the day. Screw whoever else happens to inhabit a society.

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  151. Becky says:
    @Lot
    Shapiro is much more associated and aligned with Ted Cruz and other hard right evangelicals than with the NY-DC neocon group. He commonly represents conservative evangelical groups and individuals in court on free speech and home schooling issues.

    He wrote this in Commentary to discourage neocons from buying the book. His normal medium is talk radio and his column syndicated to a lot of small town newspapers. But they were unlikely to be interested in such a book.

    Shapiro views evangelicals as lemmings to exploit, the little talks he gives are to build up support and make money, that’s what Robert Mercer always paid him to do

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  152. Becky says:
    @Dmitry

    Jews do best in unstable societies divided by factionalism, with weak governments and general lack of gentile cohesion. Weimar Germany and Yeltsin’s Russia are the most recent examples of Jewish utopias.
     
    Your post might make sense if you invert it. Yeltsin’s Russia (1990s Russia) sucked for Jewish community, which is why the majority of the country's entire Jewish community had emigrated from Russia by the end of the decade (the mass emigration only ended in the early 2000s, when the country started to recover under an oil boom - resulting in hundred of thousands of Jews returned http://rense.com/general65/100000formersovietjews.htm) . While, far worse still, was Weimar Germany (in fact this entire period of war and interwar crisis for Germany which lasted from 1914-1945), which resulted by winter 1941 in the Nazis reaching Moscow - and ongoing attempts to murder every Jewish person all along the way.

    Read the post again:

    Historically Jews do best in stable, ascending societies, which reform in such a way as to offer them some kind of meritocratic path (even when it was only through the local aristocracy) and religious freedom.

    They historically do worst after times of mass unrest, revolution and war.

    You can see their fortunes in the Early Middle Ages and High Medieval Period – and how fortunes turned against them with the beginning of the Late Middle Ages and its time of crisis.

    Not quite, Yeltsin appointed lots of oligarchs the vast majority of which were Jews, and they proceeded to go to town trying to do what they’ve ultimately done in Ukraine.

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  153. Look at how Jews in the political class, the chattering class have taken to the (((echo))) brackets! It’s almost as if anti-Semitism gives them meaning.

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  154. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dmitry
    There's ten times (arbitrary number, which is probably an underestimate) more Jewish (and equally non-Jewish) oligarchs/rich people in Russia today, than there were in most of the 1990s years. Likewise, during the 1990s, the Jewish community was evaporating. Whereas during the 2000s, it has revitalized (albeit from the largely evaporated point that the 1990s brought it to). And finally, in terms of specific anti-Jewish xenophobia, it again fell rapidly during the 2000s (while during the 1990s, the opposite pattern was occurring).

    What is the meaning of these numbers in this argument? Why don’t you see the difference between the Jew who, in Jack D’s terms, “owns a furniture store” (which still sounds wealthy to me) and the Jew who controls a national telecommunications monopoly? During the Cold War, when people talked about “the Russians,” did you think they meant Sturgeon fishermen? Perhaps more to the point, what does the Jew who owns a national telecommunications monopoly care about the Jew who owns a furniture store?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    What is the meaning of these numbers in this argument?
     
    There's at least ten times (again arbitrary number, which is probably an underestimate) more rich people who are Jewish now, than in the 1990s. The increase in economic fortunes for middle and working class people will be less significant than for rich people, but still significant. The population is not mass emigrating like in the 1990s, although there is still emigration (but usually more for 'happy' reasons of people going for professional reasons, rather than the sad ones of the past). There is revival of their institutions. There is fall in xenophobia. To sum up, the 2000s are a good time for them (maybe will be looked back on as a comparative 'golden age'), while the 1990s were more or less the opposite (as for the country as a whole).

    During the Cold War, when people talked about “the Russians,” did you think they meant Sturgeon fishermen? Perhaps more to the point, what does the Jew who owns a national telecommunications monopoly care about the Jew who owns a furniture store?
     
    Not necessarily a huge deal. But the revival of institutions of their community, is dependent on donations from richer people.

    Sometimes they build stuff just for themselves, which doesn't help middle class and working class coreligionists.
    https://www.jta.org/2015/12/15/news-opinion/world/in-an-ultra-wealthy-moscow-suburb-a-luxurious-jcc-opens-its-doors

    But other times they build things which will be open for middle and working class coreligionists.
    https://www.jta.org/2015/12/18/news-opinion/world/russias-pm-congratulates-jews-on-reopening-of-far-eastern-synagogue

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  155. Dmitry says:
    @J.Ross
    What is the meaning of these numbers in this argument? Why don't you see the difference between the Jew who, in Jack D's terms, "owns a furniture store" (which still sounds wealthy to me) and the Jew who controls a national telecommunications monopoly? During the Cold War, when people talked about "the Russians," did you think they meant Sturgeon fishermen? Perhaps more to the point, what does the Jew who owns a national telecommunications monopoly care about the Jew who owns a furniture store?

    What is the meaning of these numbers in this argument?

    There’s at least ten times (again arbitrary number, which is probably an underestimate) more rich people who are Jewish now, than in the 1990s. The increase in economic fortunes for middle and working class people will be less significant than for rich people, but still significant. The population is not mass emigrating like in the 1990s, although there is still emigration (but usually more for ‘happy’ reasons of people going for professional reasons, rather than the sad ones of the past). There is revival of their institutions. There is fall in xenophobia. To sum up, the 2000s are a good time for them (maybe will be looked back on as a comparative ‘golden age’), while the 1990s were more or less the opposite (as for the country as a whole).

    During the Cold War, when people talked about “the Russians,” did you think they meant Sturgeon fishermen? Perhaps more to the point, what does the Jew who owns a national telecommunications monopoly care about the Jew who owns a furniture store?

    Not necessarily a huge deal. But the revival of institutions of their community, is dependent on donations from richer people.

    Sometimes they build stuff just for themselves, which doesn’t help middle class and working class coreligionists.

    https://www.jta.org/2015/12/15/news-opinion/world/in-an-ultra-wealthy-moscow-suburb-a-luxurious-jcc-opens-its-doors

    But other times they build things which will be open for middle and working class coreligionists.

    https://www.jta.org/2015/12/18/news-opinion/world/russias-pm-congratulates-jews-on-reopening-of-far-eastern-synagogue

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This is a very well--written post but irrelevant to the problem. Judaism isn't a democracy. "Good for the Jews" means "good for the elite Jews." Your original point stands but my objection stands against it: we're talking about different subgroups, with different levels of power. Jewish oligarchs destroying the economy was pretty much the major complaint of both time periods. The case you now make is to the credit of Putin (neutralizing or succoring a potentially dangerous constituency) and not the Harvard economic transition team.
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  156. @anon
    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    But they do. They know that this isn't actually going to stop any of these people from getting deported. They say they want to let these people stay. But wait a couple of years and see how distraught they are once they're gone. They're just saying this so people will quit pointing out their obvious hypocrisy.

    If 11 million illegals were deported from our country tomorrow, how many Americans would be distraught two years hence? The pleasures of sanctimony are not reserved for Jews.

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    • Replies: @anon
    If 11 million illegals were deported from our country tomorrow, how many Americans would be distraught two years hence?

    Probably not many, but then, we don't typically go around acting like we're going to be that Dutch family hiding Anne Frank.

    The pleasures of sanctimony are not reserved for Jews.

    Of course not. But that has nothing to do with the question of whether or not these people really believe what they say. And they don't.
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  157. Moses says:
    @rogue-one
    From Hareetz

    >Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of U.S. comedian Sarah, is behind initiative to support some 40,000 Sudanese and Eritrean migrants who are facing forced deportation from Israel


    >A group of Israeli rabbis, including the sister of comedian Sarah Silverman, launched Tuesday an Anne Frank-inspired activist program calling on Israelis to hide African asylum seekers facing forced expulsion

    (behind paywall)
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-like-anne-frank-rabbis-plan-to-hide-asylum-seekers-in-israeli-homes-1.5743500

    >Hundreds of Israeli rabbis on Tuesday said they are willing to hide upwards of 38,000 African asylum seekers facing deportation in coming months under the banner of one of Judaism's biggest heroes: Anne Frank.

    The campaign to protect the Africans, most of whom crossed Israel's border with Egypt in an attempt to flee regional civil wars and economic strife over the last decade, is organized by Rabbis for Human Rights, an Israeli organization based in Jerusalem whose ranks include Rabbi Susan Silverman, sister of comedian Sarah Silverman.

    Inspired by the sanctuary movement in the United States, which aims to protect unauthorized immigrants from deportation, the group has donned their campaign The Anne Frank Home Sanctuary movement.

    (http://www.newsweek.com/israel-immigration-refugees-rabbis-anne-frank-deportation-783969)

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    It seems that at least some jews truly do not believe in borders.

    Perhaps so. But it’s funny how those “Jews who don’t believe in borders” are so successful bringing borders down in America, where Jews are a tiny minority, but not in Israel, where Jews are the supermajority.

    It’s almost as if…well, readers can finish the thought themselves.

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  158. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Neil Templeton
    If 11 million illegals were deported from our country tomorrow, how many Americans would be distraught two years hence? The pleasures of sanctimony are not reserved for Jews.

    If 11 million illegals were deported from our country tomorrow, how many Americans would be distraught two years hence?

    Probably not many, but then, we don’t typically go around acting like we’re going to be that Dutch family hiding Anne Frank.

    The pleasures of sanctimony are not reserved for Jews.

    Of course not. But that has nothing to do with the question of whether or not these people really believe what they say. And they don’t.

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  159. @Anonymous
    "Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys"


    Another quote Steve should understand comes to mind: you may not be interested in white genocide but white genocide is interested in you.



    Your strategy is madness because horseshoe theory is really, really dumb.

    Boy the non-sequitur spouting spergs keep coming out of the woodwork on this thread.

    you may not be interested in white genocide

    My interest in (fighting) white genocide was stated in the clause immediately preceding the one you quoted. It’s the interest in white genocide on the part of our adversaries that leaves the middle wide open in the first place.

    Your strategy is madness because horseshoe theory is really, really dumb.

    My strategy has absolutely nothing to do with horseshoe theory. Just because you’re a dipshit it doesn’t follow that you’re left-wing.

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  160. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    What is the meaning of these numbers in this argument?
     
    There's at least ten times (again arbitrary number, which is probably an underestimate) more rich people who are Jewish now, than in the 1990s. The increase in economic fortunes for middle and working class people will be less significant than for rich people, but still significant. The population is not mass emigrating like in the 1990s, although there is still emigration (but usually more for 'happy' reasons of people going for professional reasons, rather than the sad ones of the past). There is revival of their institutions. There is fall in xenophobia. To sum up, the 2000s are a good time for them (maybe will be looked back on as a comparative 'golden age'), while the 1990s were more or less the opposite (as for the country as a whole).

    During the Cold War, when people talked about “the Russians,” did you think they meant Sturgeon fishermen? Perhaps more to the point, what does the Jew who owns a national telecommunications monopoly care about the Jew who owns a furniture store?
     
    Not necessarily a huge deal. But the revival of institutions of their community, is dependent on donations from richer people.

    Sometimes they build stuff just for themselves, which doesn't help middle class and working class coreligionists.
    https://www.jta.org/2015/12/15/news-opinion/world/in-an-ultra-wealthy-moscow-suburb-a-luxurious-jcc-opens-its-doors

    But other times they build things which will be open for middle and working class coreligionists.
    https://www.jta.org/2015/12/18/news-opinion/world/russias-pm-congratulates-jews-on-reopening-of-far-eastern-synagogue

    This is a very well–written post but irrelevant to the problem. Judaism isn’t a democracy. “Good for the Jews” means “good for the elite Jews.” Your original point stands but my objection stands against it: we’re talking about different subgroups, with different levels of power. Jewish oligarchs destroying the economy was pretty much the major complaint of both time periods. The case you now make is to the credit of Putin (neutralizing or succoring a potentially dangerous constituency) and not the Harvard economic transition team.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    This is a very well–written post but irrelevant to the problem. Judaism isn’t a democracy. “Good for the Jews” means “good for the elite Jews.” Your original point stands but my objection stands against it: we’re talking about different subgroups, with different levels of power. Jewish oligarchs destroying the economy was pretty much the major complaint of both time periods. The case you now make is to the credit of Putin (neutralizing or succoring a potentially dangerous constituency) and not the Harvard economic transition team.
     
    Jross - even if we talk about the subgroup of 'elite Jews' (I think Berezovsky as more like genius level gangsters, than elite anything - as they were literally ordering mafia hits on each other - with a very high rate of murders between them). This subgroup has done orders of magnitude better in the 2000s, than in the 1990s.

    In 1990s, oil prices were down at $15 a barrel. Through incompetent privatizations, a very few people could get rich (or the basis for becoming very rich during the 2000s) - but the overall 'size of cake' was very small, and rapidly shrinking.

    In the 2000s (oil prices peaked over $130 a barrel), a huge amount of Jewish and non-Jewish people got rich. On the simple monetary measure (aside from all the other factors), the 'elite Jews' subgroup has a 'golden age' in the 2000s, while in the 1990s it was more like fighting over a shrinking cake.

    The source of most fortunes in Russia, is ultimately, derived from exportation of commodities. What happened economically in Russia, is in quite a simple way related to world prices in commodities - which had an unparalleled boom in the 2000s (after a terrible decline in the 1990s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_commodities_boom

    In the other arena - revitalization of religion, reduction in xenophobia, societal stability - has also something to do with wise political leadership. Although the massive monetary inflows helped society as a whole

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  161. Moses says:
    @Dmitry

    Hmmm. Ask Bill Kristol, David Brooks, Bret Stephens, Max Boot and JPod that. Double standards abound.
     
    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

    I'm pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.

    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.

    The theory that they are 'double-thinking' - again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    They either think immigrants are wonderful, or they don't. In this case they are clearly in love with them and it's a kind of obsession.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.


    David Brooks’ son chose to serve in the army of a foreign nation (guess which one) instead of the US Army. A real red-blooded American Patriot, that Brooks. When he and his brethren tell us what’s good for America we should listen.
     
    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.

    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.

    Fair enough. And Jews in America? What do a majority of them believe about immigration? Rhetorical.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

    Fair enough again. But we can guess based on their accumulated public statements and opinions, can’t we? Brooks’ son joined the IDF which defends the territorial integrity of Israel against “illegal infiltrators.”

    I’m pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.

    Not sure what your point is here. “Which has more than a few members…” You mean, like 10%? 25%? What about the majority?

    Scratch that. I have no idea about Israeli party politics, or if the Zionist Union is a meaningful force. (<—no need to educate me on this, it's irrelevant).

    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.

    No idea what this means. Pass, Alex.

    The theory that they are ‘double-thinking’ – again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.

    I mentioned “double-standards.” You’re changing it to “double-thinking.” Not the same thing. And yes, “double-standards” have great benefit for them. We have to make both America and Israel safe for the Jews, after all. Different methods — and standards — required for each.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.

    Stephens *did* live in Israel. Brooks’ son lives in Israel and is a member of their armed forces. Presumably Brooks visits from time to time.

    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.

    Yes, good for Brooks’ son doing something meaningful. Seriously, it’s great to find a cause to believe in. It just seems clear that the cause these men believe in is not “What’s good for America” but rather “What’s good for the Jews.” Stephens is always bringing it up.

    There’s nothing wrong with supporting and advancing the interests of your ethnic group. And the sooner Whites realize that the interests of their Fellow Whites are are different from Whites’ interests, the better. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. We can respectfully pursue our different interests. Although Whites realizing that may not in fact be “Good for the Jews.”

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Fair enough again. But we can guess based on their accumulated public statements and opinions, can’t we? Brooks’ son joined the IDF which defends the territorial integrity of Israel against “illegal infiltrators.”
     
    Brooks’ son would have repatriated to Israel and then been conscripted to the army (I would imagine this is how it happened, as it is for most immigrants).

    The army itself defends against illegal immigrants since around 5 years ago (which indeed provides a good argument to use against Brooks himself, so I agree with you).

    Prior to the fence, they would take them over the border into Israel.

    ---

    As tangential information that may be of interest, the IDF is generally a 'bastion of liberalism' (if you know about Army Radio in Israel - it's the most leftwing media).

    On the illegal immigrants, they were organizing events to help them until the Defense Minister (Avigdor Lieberman - who is right-wing, protested).

    https://www.20il.co.il/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%99%D7%93%D7%90%D7%95-%D7%A1%D7%92%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%91%D7%98%D7%99%D7%97-%D7%90%D7%9A-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E/

    --

    If you read the book about Trump, 'Fire and Fury', there is a part where Trump was surprised by the liberalism of the generals he appointed (which is quite similar to what you see in Israel).

    Not sure what your point is here. “Which has more than a few members…” You mean, like 10%? 25%? What about the majority?

    Scratch that. I have no idea about Israeli party politics, or if the Zionist Union is a meaningful force. (<—no need to educate me on this, it's irrelevant).
     
    Well if you don't want to discuss the details (although the most interesting part is usually in studying the details).

    The conclusion is that there are the same people living in Israel - with very similar views for Israel. David Brooks and Bret Stephens are the same characters in Israel, as in America. Their viewpoints would not change much, but they would get less votes than if they went into politics in the US (because more than half of Israelis are basically 'rednecks' by US standards).

    Do you think a Russian 'liberal' (which are often neo-conservatives like the Ksenia Sobchak type) changes its views when it lives in Russia or America?

    The difference is that they get a bigger audience in America, than in Israel or Russia.

    In Israel, when the Tel Aviv municipality (a liberal district), starts hanging up the flags of infiltrators in the city - there is a huge backlash from the working class people (whereas in New York, there are probably not enough 'rednecks' to protest similar moves by the mayor).
    https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5056259,00.html

    Stephens *did* live in Israel. Brooks’ son lives in Israel and is a member of their armed forces. Presumably Brooks visits from time to time.

     

    And both would be at home in Israel in their upper-middle-class milieu - and wouldn't likely change their views or standards. Because there is a liberal elite which holds all the same kind of views for Israel, as the ones these guys hold for America. The difference is that this group is out of favour with the majority of the public.

    These guys in particular are very similar to the liberal elite in Israel (who are often more militaristic than the right-wing in Israel).

    Think about someone like Isaac Herzog. His views are for Israel, are more or less no different to Brett Stephens's views for America (and Israel). He's ultra militaristic and also ultra-liberal. But in Israel, despite all the support of the media and cultural elite, he can only get traction with 18% of the electorate.

    And the illegal immigration issue is a big vote winner for the right-wing, as in the United States.

    Yes, good for Brooks’ son doing something meaningful. Seriously, it’s great to find a cause to believe in. It just seems clear that the cause these men believe in is not “What’s good for America” but rather “What’s good for the Jews.” Stephens is always bringing it up.

    There’s nothing wrong with supporting and advancing the interests of your ethnic group. And the sooner Whites realize that the interests of their Fellow Whites are are different from Whites’ interests, the better. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. We can respectfully pursue our different interests. Although Whites realizing that may not in fact be “Good for the Jews.”
     
    They care what's good for Jews - according to their subjective opinion (which anyone sensible can see is wrong). But the idea that they think what's good for Jews is different from what's good for non-Jews or for America as a whole? This is the step in the argument I question. As people almost identical to them, are behaving now the same way when they have a chance in Israel.

    Israel even has the same paradox with this demographic, as there is in the United States. In Israel, the secular, liberal, Ashkenazi, non-Russian speaking elite are generally the most successful citizens, who contribute to the country in all kinds of positive ways - except, in this case - that you don't want their liberal views on immigration. The votes of demographics in Israel like taxi drivers from Morocco, or Ukrainian rednecks, are more sensible, than they are.
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  162. @SimpleSong
    Liberty, freedom of speech, etc., are only possible if the populace has the set of behavioral characteristics that allow them to flourish. Those behavioral characteristics are largely hereditary. Writing a bill of rights into the Liberian or Congolese or Haitian constitution will do exactly nothing to improve the state of those societies because the populace is unfit. The Iraq debacle was an illustration of this.

    Now obviously the existence of a populace with these behavioral characteristics is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for liberty to flourish. The examples of East and West Germany, North and South Korea, etc., show this--a good populace can still end up in a terrible situation due to a bad regime. But a good regime or legal framework cannot ever fix a bad populace.

    To be more specific populations need:

    Impulse control--if you say something that makes me angry, I don't immediately react with violence. Without this free speech is impossible in practice. Impulse control is largely hereditary.

    Novelty seeking--also a hereditary personality trait. Individuals who are novelty seeking are more likely to accept a degree of political pluralism and nonconformity, essential for liberty as well as scientific and technological advancement.

    Conscientiousness--also a hereditary personality trait. In order to have a functional nation of laws, individuals must follow laws even when enforcement is not always practical or possible. Conscientious individuals are likelier to do this. Without enough conscientious individuals in a society the only two options are anarchy or a police state. For example Iraq, Syria.

    Intelligence--also hereditary. A society of dummies will be unable to meet its basic needs for food, sanitation, healthcare, etc., and will become a Hobbesian hellhole; higher level values are irrelevant when you can't feed or clothe yourself.

    The general concept of 'liberty' and representative democracy work only in certain populations that have particular genetic characteristics. These are predominantly European, as well as East Asian.
    The important letters are C, T, A, and G (the four DNA base pairs.) If you wish to protect liberty, protect the people that make it possible.

    Very nice. With one minor flaw. If you wish to protect liberty, be careful when you preselect its adherents and champions. Be sure of their competence and virtue. Genetic inheritance is informative, but not dispositive.

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  163. @Anonymous
    thats the thing about politics, isnt it? you dont get to choose the world you face. you dont get to choose your set of options. its not fair, its reality.

    yeah, we are screwed. we are deep in the hole and steve keeps telling them to quit digging; some of us have to be more ambitious.


    "Thankfully, most of our minds aren’t so pathetically cramped."

    nobody is stopping you from offering your suggestions on how to best serve us and our posterity, as the constitution says. we want to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children and were the only game in town for that. were called the alt-right and youre welcome to join if you wont faint when someone calls you a nazi--we face worse than that, i promise you. nobody says you have to agree with everything anyone in the alt-right says. come along and build it if you care about whats
    being made.

    were the only game in town for that

    The ignorance. It burns.

    Y’all do your dork thing. Pretty sure you’re too ridiculous to do any actual damage.

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  164. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius
    If those are the only two options, we're truly screwed.

    Thankfully, most of our minds aren't so pathetically cramped.

    If those are the only two options, we’re truly screwed.

    I hope they are not our only options. But you must admit that events sometime bring about situations where options are limited. I’m not saying that such a situation has come to pass now, but it might someday. There were probably people in Spain in the mid thirties who weren’t wild about Franco on the whole, but decided that he was a safer bet than living under communist rule. Given everything that followed, they weren’t wrong.

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  165. Mr. Anon says:
    @Ricky Vaughn
    Vox Day is another anti-Semite obsessed with the so called “Jewish Question.” He was hightlighted as such by the ADL. You should be disavowing him.

    And do you imagine that the ADL, or it’s characterization of Vox Day, can be trusted?

    By the way, I note that this post of yours is your one and only post on this site. You might just be a troll, in the original sense of the term.

    In any event, I don’t see any reason to care what you think, anymore than I care what the ADL things.

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  166. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    Sailer’s race-blind Citizenism
     
    Sailer's about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y'all are clear nuts.

    the mainstream Left is clearly moving towards explicit advocacy of white genocide as their preferred Final Solution

     

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.

    Sailer’s about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y’all are clear nuts.

    You’re being disingenuous. Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy, not that Steve notices no differences between races.

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.

    That’s a mischaracterization of Simon’s position, based on his posting history here. And I haven’t noticed you espousing anything that’s especially helpful or likely to work. The only person I’ve seen you make common cause with here is Art Deco, who only pisses all over every idea, opinion, and commenter on this site.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy
     
    Yes, and that's ridiculous. As I said, and meant.

    That’s a mischaracterization of Simon’s position, based on his posting history here.
     
    I was replying to his comment where he said that over the last five years he's steadily gravitated toward the DorkRight position. Don't blame me for his poor decisions.

    I haven’t noticed you espousing anything that’s especially helpful or likely to work.
     
    That's what Sailer is for. Not a good look for you siding with the drive-by morons baselessly and cluelessly attacking him.
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  167. @3g4me
    @110 anonymouselee: "Actually, for people who aren’t sure what the alt-right is, a good single test is if they consider Anglin and Stormer on their “side” where side is defined as broadly as “the alt right.”

    While I'm only an occasional and intermittent reader of The Stormer, The Right Stuff, Counter Currents, etc., those who disagree with you here would dismiss me as a "reichtard" for not automatically denouncing them as beyond the pale. As an earlier commenter noted, it is quite easy to notice patterns, condemn hypocrisy and double standards, and place the welfare of your own people and nation above that of others without worshiping Hitler or making oven memes (the majority are tongue-in-cheek anyhow and don't bother me any more than suggesting helicopter rides).

    I would argue that the true "test" of whether or not one is legitimately alt-right is the ability to say and support the 14 words unreservedly (We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children). From what I seem to recall of Simon's earlier comments here and elsewhere, this represents a major step for him. For numerous other commenters, there would be various sticking points or qualifiers or addenda. I realize there are other, equally legitimate definitions, but merely recognizing the reality of HBD is obviously insufficient with this blog as evidence. What commenters like Desiderius describe as the "center" (i.e. between color-blind or even color-wary citizenism and explicit, 100% racially-pure ethnonationalism) is, to me, a large part of the alt-right. HBD aware, ethnonationalist, pro-White, and still encompassing a range of people who vary in the degrees of racial purity they're willing to accept as White and with just as many differing economic and social and religious beliefs. Feel free to correct or remark on my comment as the spirit moves you; I merely offer this as my own take on the issue.

    Exactly.

    The 14 words are fine. Anyone who has a problem with them is objectively anti-white.

    Same goes for blacks and Jews though, and American means more to me than white.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    That is pretty blatant virtue signalling. In the long run differential reproduction means that cannot work and to ignore it is to simply kick the can down the road for future generations to deal with.
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  168. @Mr. Anon

    Sailer’s about as race-blind as Al Sharpton. Y’all are clear nuts.
     
    You're being disingenuous. Simon in London meant that Steve's citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy, not that Steve notices no differences between races.

    Which leaves the whole God-forsaken center wide open for the good guys, that is if we can keep you dorks from fucking it up for everybody with your Fred Phelps routine.
     
    That's a mischaracterization of Simon's position, based on his posting history here. And I haven't noticed you espousing anything that's especially helpful or likely to work. The only person I've seen you make common cause with here is Art Deco, who only pisses all over every idea, opinion, and commenter on this site.

    Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy

    Yes, and that’s ridiculous. As I said, and meant.

    That’s a mischaracterization of Simon’s position, based on his posting history here.

    I was replying to his comment where he said that over the last five years he’s steadily gravitated toward the DorkRight position. Don’t blame me for his poor decisions.

    I haven’t noticed you espousing anything that’s especially helpful or likely to work.

    That’s what Sailer is for. Not a good look for you siding with the drive-by morons baselessly and cluelessly attacking him.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    "Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy."

    Yes, and that’s ridiculous. As I said, and meant.
     

    Then you appear to be dim or just not paying attention. When has Steve ever proposed policies that were not race-neutral in their execution? Has he espoused segregation? Apartheid? No, he hasn't. His citizenist position is that all citizens should be treated equally under the law. That is race-blind policy. And one can believe in such a policy without believing that the races are equal. To the extent that he has advocated non race-netural policies, he has proposed policies that would favor blacks, but do so in a more sensible manner, such as going back to the 1970s/80s era race-quotas for hiring that at least selected the best candidates from each race, rather than dumbing down qualification tests to the point that they are meaniningless.

    I was replying to his comment where he said that over the last five years he’s steadily gravitated toward the DorkRight position. Don’t blame me for his poor decisions.
     
    No, you mischaracterized his positions and even his affiliation, and then attacked him for it. The only dork I see here is you.

    Not a good look for you siding with the drive-by morons baselessly and cluelessly attacking him.
     
    They weren't "attacking" him; they were offering him their opinion. If you don't like their opinion (and I don't agree with it myself), you'd go farther in persuading them otherwise by not treating them like trash.

    And given that you seem to be a fan of a preening head-up-his-own-ass poppinjay like Art Deco, I guess I'm not especially concerned with your opinion of "my look".

    , @Mr. Anon
    But of course - you think anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.
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  169. @Desiderius
    Exactly.

    The 14 words are fine. Anyone who has a problem with them is objectively anti-white.

    Same goes for blacks and Jews though, and American means more to me than white.

    That is pretty blatant virtue signalling. In the long run differential reproduction means that cannot work and to ignore it is to simply kick the can down the road for future generations to deal with.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    That is pretty blatant virtue signalling.
     
    Where I grew up, it's basic decency.

    Here's a signal for you: Go fuck yourself.

    differential reproduction
     
    Just because you can't get laid, don't imagine we all have that problem.
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  170. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy
     
    Yes, and that's ridiculous. As I said, and meant.

    That’s a mischaracterization of Simon’s position, based on his posting history here.
     
    I was replying to his comment where he said that over the last five years he's steadily gravitated toward the DorkRight position. Don't blame me for his poor decisions.

    I haven’t noticed you espousing anything that’s especially helpful or likely to work.
     
    That's what Sailer is for. Not a good look for you siding with the drive-by morons baselessly and cluelessly attacking him.

    “Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy.”

    Yes, and that’s ridiculous. As I said, and meant.

    Then you appear to be dim or just not paying attention. When has Steve ever proposed policies that were not race-neutral in their execution? Has he espoused segregation? Apartheid? No, he hasn’t. His citizenist position is that all citizens should be treated equally under the law. That is race-blind policy. And one can believe in such a policy without believing that the races are equal. To the extent that he has advocated non race-netural policies, he has proposed policies that would favor blacks, but do so in a more sensible manner, such as going back to the 1970s/80s era race-quotas for hiring that at least selected the best candidates from each race, rather than dumbing down qualification tests to the point that they are meaniningless.

    I was replying to his comment where he said that over the last five years he’s steadily gravitated toward the DorkRight position. Don’t blame me for his poor decisions.

    No, you mischaracterized his positions and even his affiliation, and then attacked him for it. The only dork I see here is you.

    Not a good look for you siding with the drive-by morons baselessly and cluelessly attacking him.

    They weren’t “attacking” him; they were offering him their opinion. If you don’t like their opinion (and I don’t agree with it myself), you’d go farther in persuading them otherwise by not treating them like trash.

    And given that you seem to be a fan of a preening head-up-his-own-ass poppinjay like Art Deco, I guess I’m not especially concerned with your opinion of “my look”.

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  171. Dmitry says:
    @Moses

    The majority of people who disagree with sensible views on immigration, are liberals, and they believe that immigrants are wonderful. Apparently neo-conservatives (who are just another kind of liberal interventionalists) also believe that immigrants are wonderful.
     
    Fair enough. And Jews in America? What do a majority of them believe about immigration? Rhetorical.

    I have not seen any of them supporting tougher immigration in Israel, or seen what their view is of deportation of illegal immigrants.

     

    Fair enough again. But we can guess based on their accumulated public statements and opinions, can't we? Brooks' son joined the IDF which defends the territorial integrity of Israel against "illegal infiltrators."

    I’m pretty sure that if they were in Israel they would be voting for the Zionist Union (Avoda + Kadima) Party, which has more than a few members who want to keep all the illegal immigrants.
     
    Not sure what your point is here. "Which has more than a few members..." You mean, like 10%? 25%? What about the majority?

    Scratch that. I have no idea about Israeli party politics, or if the Zionist Union is a meaningful force. (<---no need to educate me on this, it's irrelevant).


    People with their pretentious personalities are as unlikely to vote for the Likud in Israel (whose clownish behavior often makes Trump look dignified), as they are to vote for Trump in America. They are the kind of pretentious characters who had influence in Israel in the 1990s, but became increasingly unpopular since.
     
    No idea what this means. Pass, Alex.

    The theory that they are ‘double-thinking’ – again it is not only attributing to them some kind of intelligence and subtly that they have been shown not to possess, but it also has no conceivable benefit for them.
     
    I mentioned "double-standards." You're changing it to "double-thinking." Not the same thing. And yes, "double-standards" have great benefit for them. We have to make both America and Israel safe for the Jews, after all. Different methods -- and standards -- required for each.

    The only thing that might have changed their views if they were living in Israel, is that they would be shouted down by the majority of the population, as their world view had been out of favor with the majority of the public since the 1990s.
     
    Stephens *did* live in Israel. Brooks' son lives in Israel and is a member of their armed forces. Presumably Brooks visits from time to time.

    It means his oldest son is repatriating to Israel, apparently as a good citizen of it.
    The son seems to be doing something useful with his life, unlike the father who writes barely-readable articles in the newspaper.
     
    Yes, good for Brooks' son doing something meaningful. Seriously, it's great to find a cause to believe in. It just seems clear that the cause these men believe in is not "What's good for America" but rather "What's good for the Jews." Stephens is always bringing it up.

    There's nothing wrong with supporting and advancing the interests of your ethnic group. And the sooner Whites realize that the interests of their Fellow Whites are are different from Whites' interests, the better. And there's nothing wrong with that either. We can respectfully pursue our different interests. Although Whites realizing that may not in fact be "Good for the Jews."

    Fair enough again. But we can guess based on their accumulated public statements and opinions, can’t we? Brooks’ son joined the IDF which defends the territorial integrity of Israel against “illegal infiltrators.”

    Brooks’ son would have repatriated to Israel and then been conscripted to the army (I would imagine this is how it happened, as it is for most immigrants).

    The army itself defends against illegal immigrants since around 5 years ago (which indeed provides a good argument to use against Brooks himself, so I agree with you).

    Prior to the fence, they would take them over the border into Israel.

    As tangential information that may be of interest, the IDF is generally a ‘bastion of liberalism’ (if you know about Army Radio in Israel – it’s the most leftwing media).

    On the illegal immigrants, they were organizing events to help them until the Defense Minister (Avigdor Lieberman – who is right-wing, protested).

    https://www.20il.co.il/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%99%D7%93%D7%90%D7%95-%D7%A1%D7%92%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%91%D7%98%D7%99%D7%97-%D7%90%D7%9A-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E/

    If you read the book about Trump, ‘Fire and Fury’, there is a part where Trump was surprised by the liberalism of the generals he appointed (which is quite similar to what you see in Israel).

    Not sure what your point is here. “Which has more than a few members…” You mean, like 10%? 25%? What about the majority?

    Scratch that. I have no idea about Israeli party politics, or if the Zionist Union is a meaningful force. (<—no need to educate me on this, it's irrelevant).

    Well if you don’t want to discuss the details (although the most interesting part is usually in studying the details).

    The conclusion is that there are the same people living in Israel – with very similar views for Israel. David Brooks and Bret Stephens are the same characters in Israel, as in America. Their viewpoints would not change much, but they would get less votes than if they went into politics in the US (because more than half of Israelis are basically ‘rednecks’ by US standards).

    Do you think a Russian ‘liberal’ (which are often neo-conservatives like the Ksenia Sobchak type) changes its views when it lives in Russia or America?

    [MORE]

    The difference is that they get a bigger audience in America, than in Israel or Russia.

    In Israel, when the Tel Aviv municipality (a liberal district), starts hanging up the flags of infiltrators in the city – there is a huge backlash from the working class people (whereas in New York, there are probably not enough ‘rednecks’ to protest similar moves by the mayor).

    https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5056259,00.html

    Stephens *did* live in Israel. Brooks’ son lives in Israel and is a member of their armed forces. Presumably Brooks visits from time to time.

    And both would be at home in Israel in their upper-middle-class milieu – and wouldn’t likely change their views or standards. Because there is a liberal elite which holds all the same kind of views for Israel, as the ones these guys hold for America. The difference is that this group is out of favour with the majority of the public.

    These guys in particular are very similar to the liberal elite in Israel (who are often more militaristic than the right-wing in Israel).

    Think about someone like Isaac Herzog. His views are for Israel, are more or less no different to Brett Stephens’s views for America (and Israel). He’s ultra militaristic and also ultra-liberal. But in Israel, despite all the support of the media and cultural elite, he can only get traction with 18% of the electorate.

    And the illegal immigration issue is a big vote winner for the right-wing, as in the United States.

    Yes, good for Brooks’ son doing something meaningful. Seriously, it’s great to find a cause to believe in. It just seems clear that the cause these men believe in is not “What’s good for America” but rather “What’s good for the Jews.” Stephens is always bringing it up.

    There’s nothing wrong with supporting and advancing the interests of your ethnic group. And the sooner Whites realize that the interests of their Fellow Whites are are different from Whites’ interests, the better. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. We can respectfully pursue our different interests. Although Whites realizing that may not in fact be “Good for the Jews.”

    They care what’s good for Jews – according to their subjective opinion (which anyone sensible can see is wrong). But the idea that they think what’s good for Jews is different from what’s good for non-Jews or for America as a whole? This is the step in the argument I question. As people almost identical to them, are behaving now the same way when they have a chance in Israel.

    Israel even has the same paradox with this demographic, as there is in the United States. In Israel, the secular, liberal, Ashkenazi, non-Russian speaking elite are generally the most successful citizens, who contribute to the country in all kinds of positive ways – except, in this case – that you don’t want their liberal views on immigration. The votes of demographics in Israel like taxi drivers from Morocco, or Ukrainian rednecks, are more sensible, than they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Moses

    They care what’s good for Jews – according to their subjective opinion (which anyone sensible can see is wrong). But the idea that they think what’s good for Jews is different from what’s good for non-Jews or for America as a whole? This is the step in the argument I question.
     
    Lol.

    Oh dear, you got me. What's good for the Jews is always what's good for America. Everyone knows that.
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  172. Dmitry says:
    @J.Ross
    This is a very well--written post but irrelevant to the problem. Judaism isn't a democracy. "Good for the Jews" means "good for the elite Jews." Your original point stands but my objection stands against it: we're talking about different subgroups, with different levels of power. Jewish oligarchs destroying the economy was pretty much the major complaint of both time periods. The case you now make is to the credit of Putin (neutralizing or succoring a potentially dangerous constituency) and not the Harvard economic transition team.

    This is a very well–written post but irrelevant to the problem. Judaism isn’t a democracy. “Good for the Jews” means “good for the elite Jews.” Your original point stands but my objection stands against it: we’re talking about different subgroups, with different levels of power. Jewish oligarchs destroying the economy was pretty much the major complaint of both time periods. The case you now make is to the credit of Putin (neutralizing or succoring a potentially dangerous constituency) and not the Harvard economic transition team.

    Jross – even if we talk about the subgroup of ‘elite Jews’ (I think Berezovsky as more like genius level gangsters, than elite anything – as they were literally ordering mafia hits on each other – with a very high rate of murders between them). This subgroup has done orders of magnitude better in the 2000s, than in the 1990s.

    In 1990s, oil prices were down at $15 a barrel. Through incompetent privatizations, a very few people could get rich (or the basis for becoming very rich during the 2000s) – but the overall ‘size of cake’ was very small, and rapidly shrinking.

    In the 2000s (oil prices peaked over $130 a barrel), a huge amount of Jewish and non-Jewish people got rich. On the simple monetary measure (aside from all the other factors), the ‘elite Jews’ subgroup has a ‘golden age’ in the 2000s, while in the 1990s it was more like fighting over a shrinking cake.

    The source of most fortunes in Russia, is ultimately, derived from exportation of commodities. What happened economically in Russia, is in quite a simple way related to world prices in commodities – which had an unparalleled boom in the 2000s (after a terrible decline in the 1990s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_commodities_boom

    In the other arena – revitalization of religion, reduction in xenophobia, societal stability – has also something to do with wise political leadership. Although the massive monetary inflows helped society as a whole

    Read More
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  173. @Samuel Skinner
    That is pretty blatant virtue signalling. In the long run differential reproduction means that cannot work and to ignore it is to simply kick the can down the road for future generations to deal with.

    That is pretty blatant virtue signalling.

    Where I grew up, it’s basic decency.

    Here’s a signal for you: Go fuck yourself.

    differential reproduction

    Just because you can’t get laid, don’t imagine we all have that problem.

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  174. Mr. Anon says:
    @Desiderius

    Simon in London meant that Steve’s citizenist position is race-blind in terms of policy
     
    Yes, and that's ridiculous. As I said, and meant.

    That’s a mischaracterization of Simon’s position, based on his posting history here.
     
    I was replying to his comment where he said that over the last five years he's steadily gravitated toward the DorkRight position. Don't blame me for his poor decisions.

    I haven’t noticed you espousing anything that’s especially helpful or likely to work.
     
    That's what Sailer is for. Not a good look for you siding with the drive-by morons baselessly and cluelessly attacking him.

    But of course – you think anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

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  175. Mr. Anon says:

    Just because you can’t get laid, don’t imagine we all have that problem.

    And another chapter from the playbook.

    I haven’t seen anything insightful or interesting from you. I’d rather read just about anything written by you critics here, even the ones I disagree with, than anything written by you.

    Read More
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  176. Moses says:
    @Dmitry

    Fair enough again. But we can guess based on their accumulated public statements and opinions, can’t we? Brooks’ son joined the IDF which defends the territorial integrity of Israel against “illegal infiltrators.”
     
    Brooks’ son would have repatriated to Israel and then been conscripted to the army (I would imagine this is how it happened, as it is for most immigrants).

    The army itself defends against illegal immigrants since around 5 years ago (which indeed provides a good argument to use against Brooks himself, so I agree with you).

    Prior to the fence, they would take them over the border into Israel.

    ---

    As tangential information that may be of interest, the IDF is generally a 'bastion of liberalism' (if you know about Army Radio in Israel - it's the most leftwing media).

    On the illegal immigrants, they were organizing events to help them until the Defense Minister (Avigdor Lieberman - who is right-wing, protested).

    https://www.20il.co.il/%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%99%D7%93%D7%90%D7%95-%D7%A1%D7%92%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%A8-%D7%94%D7%91%D7%98%D7%99%D7%97-%D7%90%D7%9A-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%9E/

    --

    If you read the book about Trump, 'Fire and Fury', there is a part where Trump was surprised by the liberalism of the generals he appointed (which is quite similar to what you see in Israel).

    Not sure what your point is here. “Which has more than a few members…” You mean, like 10%? 25%? What about the majority?

    Scratch that. I have no idea about Israeli party politics, or if the Zionist Union is a meaningful force. (<—no need to educate me on this, it's irrelevant).
     
    Well if you don't want to discuss the details (although the most interesting part is usually in studying the details).

    The conclusion is that there are the same people living in Israel - with very similar views for Israel. David Brooks and Bret Stephens are the same characters in Israel, as in America. Their viewpoints would not change much, but they would get less votes than if they went into politics in the US (because more than half of Israelis are basically 'rednecks' by US standards).

    Do you think a Russian 'liberal' (which are often neo-conservatives like the Ksenia Sobchak type) changes its views when it lives in Russia or America?

    The difference is that they get a bigger audience in America, than in Israel or Russia.

    In Israel, when the Tel Aviv municipality (a liberal district), starts hanging up the flags of infiltrators in the city - there is a huge backlash from the working class people (whereas in New York, there are probably not enough 'rednecks' to protest similar moves by the mayor).
    https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5056259,00.html

    Stephens *did* live in Israel. Brooks’ son lives in Israel and is a member of their armed forces. Presumably Brooks visits from time to time.

     

    And both would be at home in Israel in their upper-middle-class milieu - and wouldn't likely change their views or standards. Because there is a liberal elite which holds all the same kind of views for Israel, as the ones these guys hold for America. The difference is that this group is out of favour with the majority of the public.

    These guys in particular are very similar to the liberal elite in Israel (who are often more militaristic than the right-wing in Israel).

    Think about someone like Isaac Herzog. His views are for Israel, are more or less no different to Brett Stephens's views for America (and Israel). He's ultra militaristic and also ultra-liberal. But in Israel, despite all the support of the media and cultural elite, he can only get traction with 18% of the electorate.

    And the illegal immigration issue is a big vote winner for the right-wing, as in the United States.

    Yes, good for Brooks’ son doing something meaningful. Seriously, it’s great to find a cause to believe in. It just seems clear that the cause these men believe in is not “What’s good for America” but rather “What’s good for the Jews.” Stephens is always bringing it up.

    There’s nothing wrong with supporting and advancing the interests of your ethnic group. And the sooner Whites realize that the interests of their Fellow Whites are are different from Whites’ interests, the better. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. We can respectfully pursue our different interests. Although Whites realizing that may not in fact be “Good for the Jews.”
     
    They care what's good for Jews - according to their subjective opinion (which anyone sensible can see is wrong). But the idea that they think what's good for Jews is different from what's good for non-Jews or for America as a whole? This is the step in the argument I question. As people almost identical to them, are behaving now the same way when they have a chance in Israel.

    Israel even has the same paradox with this demographic, as there is in the United States. In Israel, the secular, liberal, Ashkenazi, non-Russian speaking elite are generally the most successful citizens, who contribute to the country in all kinds of positive ways - except, in this case - that you don't want their liberal views on immigration. The votes of demographics in Israel like taxi drivers from Morocco, or Ukrainian rednecks, are more sensible, than they are.

    They care what’s good for Jews – according to their subjective opinion (which anyone sensible can see is wrong). But the idea that they think what’s good for Jews is different from what’s good for non-Jews or for America as a whole? This is the step in the argument I question.

    Lol.

    Oh dear, you got me. What’s good for the Jews is always what’s good for America. Everyone knows that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Oh dear, you got me. What’s good for the Jews is always what’s good for America. Everyone knows that.
     
    I don't doubt that this is what Brett Stephens and the people discussed on this blog believe.

    Secondly, it is generally true - as Jews will do best in ascending societies, historically.

    Whether or not the prescription of Brett Stephens et al, for what's good for Jews and good for the country, is true or not, though, is another matter (I think we can all see that open borders immigration policy will be the opposite for both - you only have to look at France).

    Fanatics like this can be obviously wrong on all counts (obvious to the extent that any taxi driver can see it), but it doesn't make their beliefs less genuine.* Often when confronted with contrary information, such characters will simply become more one-sided.

    * E.g. Khrushchev thought that communism would bury the West. I don't doubt that he genuinely believed this. Of course, it was complete nonsense, but shaking the belief of the fanatics was something only history could do.

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  177. Dmitry says:
    @Moses

    They care what’s good for Jews – according to their subjective opinion (which anyone sensible can see is wrong). But the idea that they think what’s good for Jews is different from what’s good for non-Jews or for America as a whole? This is the step in the argument I question.
     
    Lol.

    Oh dear, you got me. What's good for the Jews is always what's good for America. Everyone knows that.

    Oh dear, you got me. What’s good for the Jews is always what’s good for America. Everyone knows that.

    I don’t doubt that this is what Brett Stephens and the people discussed on this blog believe.

    Secondly, it is generally true – as Jews will do best in ascending societies, historically.

    Whether or not the prescription of Brett Stephens et al, for what’s good for Jews and good for the country, is true or not, though, is another matter (I think we can all see that open borders immigration policy will be the opposite for both – you only have to look at France).

    Fanatics like this can be obviously wrong on all counts (obvious to the extent that any taxi driver can see it), but it doesn’t make their beliefs less genuine.* Often when confronted with contrary information, such characters will simply become more one-sided.

    * E.g. Khrushchev thought that communism would bury the West. I don’t doubt that he genuinely believed this. Of course, it was complete nonsense, but shaking the belief of the fanatics was something only history could do.

    Read More
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  178. Dmitry says:
    @anon
    It is easy and convenient to protest against Israeli treatment of Africans when it is well known that the situations wont be broadcast in US news like CNN or MSNBC , and while it is well known no USA leader will have the balls to raise it as humanitarian issue . Until and unless the issues are raised by Muslim murder advocates like the neocons of the ilk of Schumer, Krystol, Podhoretz, Goldberg, Goldberg, Gaffney,Bolton, FDD, Israeli Project, Stand With Israel types - these calm calculated complaint against Israeli treatment have no value no relevance. It is just for show.

    There’s nothing for show. The California Jewish group New Israel Fund (which is financed by $30 million a year from American Jews), is successfully preventing the deportation of illegal immigrants from Israel.

    If you don’t know Hebrew, please use a translation tool to read the last paragraphs in the article (the American Jewish groups like New Israel Fund are very successful at bypassing Israel’s laws to prevent deportation – they also work in all kinds of imaginable ways to undermine Israeli policy for their liberal goals – through legal systems, through international law, using lawyers, using propagandists like ‘Breaking the Silence’).

    https://mida.org.il/2018/01/18/%D7%91%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%93%D7%99-%D7%9E%D7%97%D7%93%D7%9C-%D7%A9%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%9C%D7%90-%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%9C%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%91/

    They are also going to hide illegal immigrants

    https://mida.org.il/2018/01/17/%D7%91%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%94-%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%9E%D7%99-%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9C-%D7%90%D7%AA-%D7%92%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A9-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A1/

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