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From the BBC:

Should I Marry My Cousin?

In this provocative and personal documentary, 18 year-old Bradford-born Hiba explores the controversial but legal custom of first-cousin marriage. …

In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest. However, in one community – British Pakistanis – 55 per cent of young people marry their first cousin. And in Bradford, where Hiba comes from, that figure is an astonishing 70 per cent.

Although she’s only 18, Hiba is already talking to her family about marriage. For them first-cousin marriage is the norm and some members of the family are especially keen for her to continue the tradition.

Her uncle Younis is in favour – four out of five of his own children are in cousin marriages. Her dad, Maroof, is on the fence and her mum, Nuzhat, is very much against it, but both have said they will support Hiba in whatever decision she makes.

At the moment Hiba is single and because all her first cousins have married each other, her only hope of a family match would be with a second or third cousin from Pakistan.

Visas!

By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.

So, should Hiba marry a cousin?

You can watch it there.

 
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  1. AM says:

    So, should Hiba marry a cousin?

    Responsible answer: No.
    Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    That's exactly it. Simply let people bear the full costs of their decisions and we'll see how well this tradition holds up. I reckon that, if it's held up this well in ramshackle Pakistan, it will probably survive cuts in NHS funding.
    , @415 reasons

    Knock yourself out
     
    Literally. Scientists are analyzing inbred Pakistanis as a vast natural experiment called the human knockout project.

    https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v544/n7649/full/nature22034.html

    , @AnotherDad
    If she has a half a brain, she'll sink her hooks into some quality white guy, who can giver her a good crossbreeding and rescue her from her Mirpuri ghetto.

    (And since, she's obviously doing this to "be on TV", that may well be the plan. If she really wanted to be her Pakistani 2nd cousin's wife she could just do it. If she wants to do a little attention whoring and advertise her charms to some white guys, than this all makes sense.)
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  2. Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Poonjabi
    Gotta keep it in the family. It takes many generations of inbreeding to make those unibrows so lush and shiny.
    , @Ed
    The business on Britain is business, capital wants labor, if it can't find it in the domestic population, they'll find slaves or import people from far off lands.

    A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.
    , @Kylie
    Exactly what the British elites want them to be doing.
    , @Lurker
    According to some libtards, they're here because the white population is horribly inbred.
    , @Autochthon
    Didn't you read the article? Why, they are "British Pakistanis." You know, just like Brasilian Russians, dry moisture, and freezing heat.
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  3. Apu says:

    She should be happy to get any brown man, I read these days they’re all chasing the white women.

    Read More
    • LOL: Triumph104
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  4. Poonjabi says:
    @AnotherDad
    Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?

    Gotta keep it in the family. It takes many generations of inbreeding to make those unibrows so lush and shiny.

    Read More
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  5. 1/ ‘… to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud…’

    Not necessarily fraud. In Hiba’s family’s case that’s how they actually marry.

    2/ Look at the bright side. First cousin marriage can lead to the overall lowering of the IQ’s of British Pakistanis. Isn’t that a good thing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Not Raul
    Maybe it is a good thing. Four Lions wouldn't have been a comedy if the lions hadn't been idiots.
    , @Eagle Eye
    Pakistanis - not surprisingly - account for a VASTLY disproportionate number of serious birth defects requiring LIFELONG medical attention, all provided "free" by the NHS, Britains socialist "National Health Service."

    Per capita, Pakistanis probably account for about 10 times more serious birth defects than the native English and Scottish populations.

    Of course, as is always the case with immigrant communities, the vast majority of Pakistanis come from only a small handful of local/caste communities back in Pakistan, the "Land of the Pure."

    And yes, SJWs will hate you for knowing this, but Muslims (and even Christians) on the Indian sub-continent do practice stringent caste discrimination.
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  6. This is an awesome de-mystification of equalism. Not all groups can be equal even in theory because some groups practice cousin marriage. Jared Taylor should have mentioned this on his ABC interview with the Pakistani host.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Olorin
    It should also be a de-mystification of the low quality of what passes for "journalism" and "documentaries" among forced-government-tax-supported broadcasters like Ma Beeb.

    A responsible "documentary" would look at this not from this Beeb-certified soap opera angle but from a genetic and population one, in the past, present, and going forward.

    Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you're forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders' families than their own.

    I.e., the consequences of their OWN children not being able to find appropriate marriage partners is never touched upon.

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  7. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    2/ Look at the bright side. First cousin marriage can lead to the overall lowering of the IQ’s of British Pakistanis. Isn’t that a good thing?

    Not if they remain in Britain. They will be a welfare drain from cradle to grave, and if their numbers are large enough, will turn many parts of that nation into areas uninhabitable by real Britons.

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  8. Not Raul says:
    @anony-mouse
    1/ '... to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud...'

    Not necessarily fraud. In Hiba's family's case that's how they actually marry.

    2/ Look at the bright side. First cousin marriage can lead to the overall lowering of the IQ's of British Pakistanis. Isn't that a good thing?

    Maybe it is a good thing. Four Lions wouldn’t have been a comedy if the lions hadn’t been idiots.

    Read More
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  9. Rob McX says:

    By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.

    Dutch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Actually I think he meant the Danish government.
    , @Altai
    Pia Kjærsgaard is always attacked by the media in Denmark as an evil witch, but her actions have done more to better her nation than any Western politician of the last 30 years. It's incredible, go to Copenhagen then go to any other capital in Western Europe. Hell, take the bridge to Malmo...

    The success of the Danish Peoples Party should give us all hope and is, of course, a direct rebuke of anything being 'inevitable'.

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  10. GLT says:

    Anyone have a way to watch from outside the UK?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    Get yourself a VPN
    , @al gore rhythms
    Speaking as a Brit, I ask myself this very question every time I watch the news.
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  11. jtgw says:
    @Rob McX

    By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.
     
    Dutch.

    Actually I think he meant the Danish government.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    You're right. Thanks.
    , @Stan Adams
    I saw that, but I thought maybe Steve was talking about some weird scheme where Muslims wed in Denmark, then settle in Holland.

    I have one female first cousin. We were close as kids - spent a lot of weekends swimming in my grandparents' pool. On many a lazy Sunday afternoon, my mother took us to the el-cheapo second-run discount movie theater.

    (Mom, ever the penny-pincher, refused to pay the inflated prices at the concession stand. But she always smuggled salty snacks and warm cans of grocery-store-brand cola in her purse.)

    Sadly, as I grew older, I came to understand that she was certifiably wacko. (My cousin, that is. We'll talk about my mother some other time.)

    One morning, while under the influence of ... something, my cousin mistakenly interpreted her beloved cat's apparent disappearance as incontrovertible evidence that he had met a bad end. Unable to cope with this seeming tragedy, she proceeded to slash her wrists.

    She literally died at the hospital, but they were able to bring her back.

    After a succession of bad relationships (and suicide attempts/threats), she married a vibrant individual. They now have two kids.

    Now, before you say anything, let me assure you that this man is a genuine credit to his race - nice guy, hard worker. (His IQ aspires to the triple digits, but no one's perfect.)

    After her second miscarriage (and her resulting hysteria), he walked out on her. She threatened to slash her wrists. He came back. Shortly thereafter, she became pregnant with their first child.

    Her father was born in the Deep South, and most of her relatives on that side still live there. Her paternal grandfather was not pleased that she married a black man, and he was even less pleased that she hid it from him for two years. But he didn't cut her out of his will, so he couldn't have been that unhappy.
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  12. Wazoo says:

    This inbreeding is why British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with birth defects than native Britons. Those defects include low IQ and mental retardation. That explains a lot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @HunInTheSun
    Yes. For those who follow these things, note how often some heroic surgeons in the UK or elsewhere in the West separate gruesomely conjoined twins from Pakistan or Bangladesh.
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  13. Ed says:
    @AnotherDad
    Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?

    The business on Britain is business, capital wants labor, if it can’t find it in the domestic population, they’ll find slaves or import people from far off lands.

    A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s."

    Nonsense. In the early 50s the entire 'visible minority' population of the UK was only about 25,000 in a nation of 50 million.

    They were brought over in the late 50s and 60s to work in the foundries of the Midlands (now mostly gone) and the textile mills of the North and Leicester (ditto). Cheap labour which turned out to be not so cheap after all.
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  14. Rob McX says:

    Refusing to let non-relatives marry into your family is fine, even if you end up with a brood that would make the Munsters look like a triumph of eugenics. What’s really evil is trying to keep alien races out of your country.

    Read More
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  15. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Meanwhile, in California…

    “Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition”, Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:

    “A Bay Area legislator was shocked when he learned from a young constituent that while Californians cannot legally consent to sex until they are 18, they can — with the permission of a parent and a judge’s order — get married at any age, even if their spouse is many years older…

    …resulting proposal to bar juveniles from getting hitched has been watered down after it prompted strong objections from civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union

    …Nationally, about 5 of every 1,000 children ages 15 to 17 were married as of 2014…

    …Other opponents said marriage is a fundamental right, and that some juveniles not only marry willingly but benefit..”

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    What's wrong with getting married at 15,16,or 17? I'm actually familiar with that California law. The important thing is the consent of the judge. The juvenile court judges who consent to these marriages are very, very protective of this minors who want to get married. It's usually a girl and a man 10 years older. There is an investigation of both prospective spouses and the parents. The prospective spouse must have a decent, reasonably secure job and able to support the minor spouse. Generally the spouse must have had the job for 2 years. References are required but not just accepted. Juvenile court investigators investigate the references and everything. It's almost like applying to adopt a child.
    It was always pretty rare. Marriage is declining anyway so teen age marriage is also declining.

    Every tried to get a court order about anything? It's not that easy.

    And as I wrote before, what's wrong with getting married in the middle teens, especially if the spouse has been investigated throughly and deemed fit.

    , @reiner Tor
    You can't make this up...
    , @Gary in Gramercy
    I didn't read the entire story, but given the wholesale legalization of same-sex marriage in this country, I have a hunch that NAMBLA is involved in this somehow. (How some rich pederast gets his "boyfriend's" parents to consent to the "marriage" is, of course, no one's business but the parties' respective tax advisors...)
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  16. jim jones says:
    @GLT
    Anyone have a way to watch from outside the UK?

    Get yourself a VPN

    Read More
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  17. jtgw says:

    Some poor writing in that piece. E.g. “In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest.” If cousin marriage is such a taboo, why has it been legal for centuries? I happen to know that it’s because the Protestant reformers in the 16th century wanted to return marriage laws to their biblical roots, and the Bible happens to allow first cousin marriage, while the Catholic Church had long forbidden it. I suppose somehow this reform had little effect on the popular taboo against such marriages (whether due to lingering Catholic influence or something else), but it deserved more of an explanation by the author here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ANON
    The Jewish part of the bible allows first cousin marriage. The Jewish and Christian parts of the bible are very different, in fact opposites. It's not rational that Christians believe in both.
    But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.

    The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?
    , @Dana Thompson
    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church's prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
    "Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.
    , @The True and Original David
    Yup, the hand of the editor is apparent. "where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years" is dropped in to take the sting out. It could have used a "despite" or "although." But making the relationship of ideas clear evidently wasn't important to the editor.
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  18. Rob McX says:
    @jtgw
    Actually I think he meant the Danish government.

    You’re right. Thanks.

    Read More
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  19. L Woods says:

    Western answer: ride the carousel until 39 instead. Pakistanis may be more dysgenic, but not by a great margin I imagine.

    Read More
    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @bomag

    ...may be more dysgenic but not by a great margin I imagine.
     
    Interesting that both sides know the deleterious effects of inbreeding and of sterilizing your high achieving women, but not much is done about it.
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  20. jtgw says:
    @AM

    So, should Hiba marry a cousin?
     
    Responsible answer: No.
    Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)

    That’s exactly it. Simply let people bear the full costs of their decisions and we’ll see how well this tradition holds up. I reckon that, if it’s held up this well in ramshackle Pakistan, it will probably survive cuts in NHS funding.

    Read More
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  21. eah says:

    She has to go back. Then no one would give a fuck.

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  22. Kylie says:
    @AnotherDad
    Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?

    Exactly what the British elites want them to be doing.

    Read More
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  23. Daniel H says:

    I’m amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage. One does occasionally meet a few very bright Pakistanis. And there are enough bright ones to master the engineering to build an A bomb. Still, why take the risk?

    Read More
    • Replies: @rec1man
    Pakistan got its nukes from China and its missiles from North Korea

    Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam

    Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India

    In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels

    Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains
    , @Ali Choudhury
    70% of British Pakistanis in the UK come from an area called Mirpur which was a rural and quite backward area with high levels of illiteracy. They were imported to work as cheap labour in provincial textile mills. Cousin marriage was very prevalent there, as it is in most rural areas, and the practice was imported with them in other areas they settled.

    It is common because inheritance and property disputes can be very protracted and it is a way of ensuring wealth remains in the family. Also if you are marrying off your daughter to the son of your brother or sister you have some assurance she will be well taken care of. The risk of marrying daughters off to bad apples is high given the low trust society that Pakistan is. In India, I believe cousin marriage is banned which means fewer genetic defects but more incidences of abuse and murder of brides by their mothers-in-law compared to Pakistan.

    It is less common in urban areas since there are more potential mates to choose from and it is the elite in the cities and the armed forces that runs Pakistan.The severely retarded and those crippled with birth defects don't last very long. Birth defects show up as a much more aberrant phenomenon in the West where mortality rates are low.

    , @greysquirrell
    A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani who is called the father-of-the-bomb , is a Muhajir, an ethnicity that is composed of Muslims who emmigrated to Pakistan from present day India. A.Q. Khan stole the technology for centrifuges from the European consortium URENCO. Muhajirs are responsible for making Karachi the economic hub of Pakistan and advancing the Pakistani economy. The national language of Pakistan (Urdu), was introduced by this group, and has its roots in Central India.
    , @AnotherDad

    I’m amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage.
     
    Cousin marriage itself less grinds down your genome, than mutational effects are brought to the phenotypic fore quickly and exposed to selection. I.e. when a deleterious mutation shows up in a few generations you've get cousin Muhammed whose sickly or a cripple or a moron.

    My back of the envelope, cousins--otherwise unrelated--will share a chromosome on a quarter of the pairs. Their kids will thus get a duplicate from every four of those or 1/16 of the time. So on average would have 23/16 of a duplicated chromosome. But when the family is continually interbreeding--so you have shared chromosomes on both sides and shared between the sides--the chances go way up.

    But in a normal situation of Malthusian pressure, Muhammed and his deleteriously mutated genes are being rapidly washed out. In lean times there's only food for four kids, but the family has eight. Muhammed gets sick and dies. (Or more harshly the family doesn't feed their loser kids/babies or kills them.) The other kids--remember the family normally also carries the pre-mutated chromosome copy--roll on. If the family really gets stuck in a genetic bottleneck with a bunch of bad genes it will tend to die out, to be replaced by other families with better genes.


    I think the even bigger negatives of this sort of tribalism are the longer term ones.
    --> You are more isolated from positive mutations and selection in other tribes/families. If there was a positive mutation that made people smarter or more conscientious, and it's in your own family/tribe--great. But if it's off somewhere else, it takes a long long time to get into your family's gene pool. As a tribal isolate you don't benefit from the selection going on around you.

    --> You don't build trust with other families and hence build trust throughout your community and scaling up, nation.

    Fixing these two things--with the church attacking tribalism and cousin marriage--helped the West grow continually smarter, more conscientious, more cooperative people with a larger "trust boundary" for position interactions, and helped the West leap ahead. It's the great sociological achievement of the West. The Japanese managed to do it to through some different cultural route. The Chinese managed to get the shared selection pressure--the constant downward mobility that Ron Unz outlined--but didn't develop the shared family/higher trust aspect of the West. Tribal societies in contrast are backward. Dumber people who seem to lack the capability to put together decently functioning national institutions.
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  24. Tiny Duck says:

    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sgt. Joe Friday
    Um, Mr.Duck are you aware that nearly all 120 million Mexicans are descended from at most a few hundred Spanish conquistadors? I believe that is a text book example of "inbreeding."
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Only a few people even consider doing this"

    Including, obviously, your ancestors going back several generations.

    , @fish

    Janelle.......bring me the dictionary!


    - Leonard Pitts
     
    , @Chris Mallory
    You do realize that first cousin marriage is illegal in Kentucky, West Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi and legal in New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Rhode Island?

    Dang inbred Yankees.
    , @The True and Original David
    "Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites"

    Isn't a canard a tiny duck?
    , @Art Deco
    I think it was generally an upland practice, not something favored by white Southerners in general. You married the people you knew, who, as it happened, were your relatives. The last instance in my family was around 1888. You'll notice where it was prohibited by law - places where it was perceived of as a problem.
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  25. We’re fecked. Just fecked.

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  26. @Tiny Duck
    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    Um, Mr.Duck are you aware that nearly all 120 million Mexicans are descended from at most a few hundred Spanish conquistadors? I believe that is a text book example of “inbreeding.”

    Read More
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  27. By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.

    Where’s the fraud if they mostly genuinely happen to marry their cousins, as seems to be the case? It would be fraud if the cousin marriages were breaking up, suspiciously often, after the immigration status was granted to the foreign cousin partner, but this BBC story seems to indicate otherwise.

    And it seems to be a crackdown on child, or, at any rate, early adulthood marriage, not cousin marriages.

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    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @CAL
    You're assuming it's a willing marriage. Often it's the parents telling the daughter that she is going to marry cousin Achmed and bring him back with her. If she doesn't like it, well uppity women in Islam tend to end up beaten or dead. The police aren't going to do anything since they are being culturally sensitive.
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  28. Read More
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  29. Mr. Anon says:

    In this provocative and personal documentary, 18 year-old Bradford-born Hiba explores the controversial but legal custom of first-cousin marriage. …

    Hiba? Spelled H1Ba, no doubt.

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    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    My first thought as well. Maybe her cousin is Daca.
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  30. Mr. Anon says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    “Only a few people even consider doing this”

    Including, obviously, your ancestors going back several generations.

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  31. Flip says:

    Queen Victoria married her first cousin. Charles Darwin too.

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    • Replies: @Lurker
    The odd one here or there doesn't matter. It's when it's carried out repeatedly over multiple generations.
    , @Dana Thompson
    William and Mary, too, and Edgar Allan Poe, and the Hapsburgs. People of Quality have always been reluctant to share their genes outside the family. And Cleopatra - wasn't she the product of seven generations of brother-sister marriage? She was enough of a babe for wars to be fought over.
    , @AnotherDad

    Queen Victoria married her first cousin.
     
    Yeah, and a couple generations later several of her grandchildren were at war with one another.

    (Overall the quality of the ruling houses of Europe hasn't exactly been anything to write home to mom about.)
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  32. @Wazoo
    This inbreeding is why British Pakistanis are 13 times more likely to have children with birth defects than native Britons. Those defects include low IQ and mental retardation. That explains a lot.

    Yes. For those who follow these things, note how often some heroic surgeons in the UK or elsewhere in the West separate gruesomely conjoined twins from Pakistan or Bangladesh.

    Read More
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  33. Rob McX says:
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  34. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @jtgw
    Some poor writing in that piece. E.g. "In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest." If cousin marriage is such a taboo, why has it been legal for centuries? I happen to know that it's because the Protestant reformers in the 16th century wanted to return marriage laws to their biblical roots, and the Bible happens to allow first cousin marriage, while the Catholic Church had long forbidden it. I suppose somehow this reform had little effect on the popular taboo against such marriages (whether due to lingering Catholic influence or something else), but it deserved more of an explanation by the author here.

    The Jewish part of the bible allows first cousin marriage. The Jewish and Christian parts of the bible are very different, in fact opposites. It’s not rational that Christians believe in both.
    But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.

    The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    Marrying first cousins was a step up from the common pagan practice of marrying siblings or half-siblings (which Abraham may have followed, depending on your translation), but still avoided marrying outsiders ("the daughters of the land") who might spread pagan customs (and dissipate tribal wealth). At the times of "Tobit" and "Ruth," cousins and members of the same tribe still had the inside track.

    The tendency to consanguinity diminished as the world became more populated and more centered in cities and villages instead of nomadic tribes. It became easier to arrange marriages with people who weren't pagans but weren't so closely related that genetic characteristics became unhealthily exaggerated.
    , @jtgw
    Except the New Testament says nothing about cousin marriage; that was an extra-biblical development in the Christian tradition. I honestly don't know where the Church got the idea that cousin marriage was bad, but I think hbdchick among others has done a lot of research into this, so maybe check out her blog.
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  35. ANON says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous
    Meanwhile, in California...

    "Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition", Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:


    "A Bay Area legislator was shocked when he learned from a young constituent that while Californians cannot legally consent to sex until they are 18, they can — with the permission of a parent and a judge’s order — get married at any age, even if their spouse is many years older...

    ...resulting proposal to bar juveniles from getting hitched has been watered down after it prompted strong objections from civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union...

    ...Nationally, about 5 of every 1,000 children ages 15 to 17 were married as of 2014...

    ...Other opponents said marriage is a fundamental right, and that some juveniles not only marry willingly but benefit.."

     

    What’s wrong with getting married at 15,16,or 17? I’m actually familiar with that California law. The important thing is the consent of the judge. The juvenile court judges who consent to these marriages are very, very protective of this minors who want to get married. It’s usually a girl and a man 10 years older. There is an investigation of both prospective spouses and the parents. The prospective spouse must have a decent, reasonably secure job and able to support the minor spouse. Generally the spouse must have had the job for 2 years. References are required but not just accepted. Juvenile court investigators investigate the references and everything. It’s almost like applying to adopt a child.
    It was always pretty rare. Marriage is declining anyway so teen age marriage is also declining.

    Every tried to get a court order about anything? It’s not that easy.

    And as I wrote before, what’s wrong with getting married in the middle teens, especially if the spouse has been investigated throughly and deemed fit.

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    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @bomag

    Every tried to get a court order about anything? It’s not that easy.
     
    Unless you are an immigrant/refugee. I'm amazed at their legal power. I can't get past the receptionist at the law firms around here.

    Re: child marriage in CA; I'm wondering about the ethnicity/SES of those using the courts this way. It sounds like a breeding program for Gypsies.
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  36. rec1man says:
    @Daniel H
    I'm amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage. One does occasionally meet a few very bright Pakistanis. And there are enough bright ones to master the engineering to build an A bomb. Still, why take the risk?

    Pakistan got its nukes from China and its missiles from North Korea

    Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam

    Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India

    In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels

    Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

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    • Replies: @Karl
    35 rec1man > Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam


    i'll mention your theory to the Sindh Rangers


    i'd rather my neighborhood be policed by the Sindh Rangers than by California police departments


    Point-Counterpoint: Pakistanis are de facto colonizing the west. That cousin-marriage has SOME advantages

    , @Karl
    25 rec1man > 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    ==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don't believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old "he who has the gold, makes the rules"

    6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy..... What's the ratio in YOUR country?
    , @Ali Choudhury
    70% of British Pakistanis are from Mirpur, they originate from Kashmir and speak Mirpuri not Punjabi. They don't count as Punjabi. The Punjabis are doing OK, particularly the ones who were from middle class families before they emigrated. The former Karachi dwellers tend to do best, they are usually from well-educated families.
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  37. Lurker says:
    @AnotherDad
    Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?

    According to some libtards, they’re here because the white population is horribly inbred.

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  38. Lurker says:
    @Flip
    Queen Victoria married her first cousin. Charles Darwin too.

    The odd one here or there doesn’t matter. It’s when it’s carried out repeatedly over multiple generations.

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  39. @GLT
    Anyone have a way to watch from outside the UK?

    Speaking as a Brit, I ask myself this very question every time I watch the news.

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    • LOL: Autochthon
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  40. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It is for this reason – combined with out-of-date so-called ‘human rights’ legislation – that continual mass immigration from Pakistan to the UK has proven ‘impossible’ to control.

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  41. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    From a purely Hamiltonian ‘ethnic genetic interest’ perspective, it all makes sense – regardless of the ‘cost’ of possible birth defects.

    The ‘opportunity cost’ of living in the UK outweighs the negativity of the increased likelihood of genetically induced illness amongst the progeny of such unions.
    Such is the hard rationalism of the ‘modern synthesis’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @415 reasons
    Yea except there are extremely high rates of consanguinity among Pakistanis in Pakistan. So this is not a unique response to cruel U.K. immigration policies it is just part of their culture.
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  42. anon says: • Disclaimer

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10958728/Australian-judge-says-incest-may-no-longer-be-a-taboo.html

    BTW, due to increased non-traditional births (non-monogamy, non-marital, extra-marital, sperm donor based etc.,) real incidences of consanguineous marriages nowadays is probably quite high. DNA tests are showing surprisingly close relations between many couples.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Australian judges seem to be perhaps the worst, most pozzed in the world. Even taking California into account.
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  43. reiner Tor says: • Website
    @anonymous
    Meanwhile, in California...

    "Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition", Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:


    "A Bay Area legislator was shocked when he learned from a young constituent that while Californians cannot legally consent to sex until they are 18, they can — with the permission of a parent and a judge’s order — get married at any age, even if their spouse is many years older...

    ...resulting proposal to bar juveniles from getting hitched has been watered down after it prompted strong objections from civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union...

    ...Nationally, about 5 of every 1,000 children ages 15 to 17 were married as of 2014...

    ...Other opponents said marriage is a fundamental right, and that some juveniles not only marry willingly but benefit.."

     

    You can’t make this up…

    Read More
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  44. donut says:

    All of your commenters experience Islam second hand . But my experience is first hand , like Hank Snow I have been every where . I , believe it or not am a Haji . I went on the pilgrimage to Mecca in 1974 . From following my posts you must all know that I am a simple man , no deep thoughts or profound insights here . I came as close to death as I ever have at Mina in a tent . I for sure heard the Angel of Death pacing impatiently around the tent where I lay . But I survived and then heard the sermon at Arafat . Then being weak still from my bout with death we went to Muzdalifah and I subsequently gathered stones to cast at the Devil at Ramy al-Jamarat . Still weakened from my debilitating illness some guys from the Bahraini defense force took me by my arms and carried me through that ordeal . And I cursed Shaitan and cast my stones at him . Later when the time came to repeat Haajar’s desperate run back and forth in search of the well of Zam Zam , 7 rounds , my Bahraini friends once again carried me . Without a doubt I know that God or no God blessings rained down on them . So what ? I have only the deepest gratitude to my friends from that time . But I don’t want no Muzzies in my home . When I was there I was a Muzzie and the people of Bahrain took me in and welcomed me as a believer . But that , while it was a very important part of my journey is past and eventually I rejected Islam . I don’t want NO Muzzies here in my homeland . I , like others here perhaps have stumbled hither and yon in search of the the answer to the most important question a man can ask .
    Btw a group of ants have taken up residence in my kitchen . I can’t bring my self to call the exterminator . If there are only a few I actually say “good morning” to them , if on the other hand there are too many I raise my voice and say unkind things . I suppose that that is because I suspect that in this vast “random” and indifferent universe the life of a man and the life of an ant might weigh equally in the scales of “justice” .

    John Burke authentic member of the average IQ club and Top 40 fan .

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  45. first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest

    Isn’t first-cousin marriage incest?

    Also, I think Hiba should marry Uncle Younis. I have a niece that I wouldn’t mind getting to know in a biblical sense.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    "I have a niece that I wouldn’t mind getting to know in a biblical sense."

    JFC. I hope you're prohibited by court order from contact with her.
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  46. When Cousins Marry shows the genetic deformities in children, parents and a community in denial, and forced marriages.

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    • Agree: theo the kraut
    • Replies: @theo the kraut
    As if taken from a Nazi propaganda movie on eugenics, but it's real. Quote: "More than half of British Pakistanis marry their first cousins."
    , @theo the kraut
    Libtards love retards they can care for, they want our brains. As they aren't done yet dumbing us down, they're importing themselves hopefuls. Channelling Mrs Jellyby*--jelly beans for all!
    , @Amanuensis
    I lasted about 15 minutes, then I couldn't take any more.
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  47. @Triumph104
    When Cousins Marry shows the genetic deformities in children, parents and a community in denial, and forced marriages.

    https://youtu.be/9aAD0yJ3SdQ

    As if taken from a Nazi propaganda movie on eugenics, but it’s real. Quote: “More than half of British Pakistanis marry their first cousins.”

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  48. Karl says:
    @rec1man
    Pakistan got its nukes from China and its missiles from North Korea

    Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam

    Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India

    In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels

    Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    35 rec1man > Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam

    i’ll mention your theory to the Sindh Rangers

    i’d rather my neighborhood be policed by the Sindh Rangers than by California police departments

    Point-Counterpoint: Pakistanis are de facto colonizing the west. That cousin-marriage has SOME advantages

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  49. Karl says:
    @rec1man
    Pakistan got its nukes from China and its missiles from North Korea

    Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam

    Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India

    In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels

    Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    25 rec1man > 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    ==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don’t believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old “he who has the gold, makes the rules”

    6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy….. What’s the ratio in YOUR country?

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Whaaaaaat? It's the ABSOLUTE numbers that rec1man is using to illustrate the backwardness of the place, not the ratio. Anyway, how would you know 6:1 sounds right? It's probably more than 50-100:1 in America, but it's because passenger service here anywhere but the Washington, FS - Boston, Mass. corridor is a joke cause it's run by the Feral Government. People fly a lot.

    Your first reply may have been a good argument (I have no idea, and don't even care), but this was no argument, merely BS.


    * Sent from my iPhone as far from Pakistan as is possible. *

    , @rec1man
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Railways#Locomotives

    Pakistan Railways currently has 190 working DE locomotives. The average life of entire fleet (465 DE locomotives) is 25 years

    whereas, India has 5000 locomotives

    http://24coaches.com/indian-railways-facts-and-figures/
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  50. @Flip
    Queen Victoria married her first cousin. Charles Darwin too.

    William and Mary, too, and Edgar Allan Poe, and the Hapsburgs. People of Quality have always been reluctant to share their genes outside the family. And Cleopatra – wasn’t she the product of seven generations of brother-sister marriage? She was enough of a babe for wars to be fought over.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs, as you can see from that famous jaw in their portraits. You know things are pretty bad when you've got only four great-grandparents instead of eight, as was the case with Philip IV of Spain.
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  51. bomag says:
    @L Woods
    Western answer: ride the carousel until 39 instead. Pakistanis may be more dysgenic, but not by a great margin I imagine.

    …may be more dysgenic but not by a great margin I imagine.

    Interesting that both sides know the deleterious effects of inbreeding and of sterilizing your high achieving women, but not much is done about it.

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  52. George says:

    Ibn Khaldun thinks Hiba should marry a first cousin to benefit Bradford’s Asabiyyah in preparation of her inland tribe’s takeover of the UK. We don’t hear much about Ibn Khaldun on iSteve, anymore, that’s too bad.

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  53. @Triumph104
    When Cousins Marry shows the genetic deformities in children, parents and a community in denial, and forced marriages.

    https://youtu.be/9aAD0yJ3SdQ

    Libtards love retards they can care for, they want our brains. As they aren’t done yet dumbing us down, they’re importing themselves hopefuls. Channelling Mrs Jellyby*–jelly beans for all!

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  54. Thomas says:

    The Beeb is having to answer these “vibrant” questions more and more.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39316253 “BBC Asian Network apologises for tweet about blasphemy”

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    What a howler! The piece claims "Britain abolished its blasphemy laws in 2008," but the Public Order Act was passed in 1986 and the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act of 1994 extended its punishments for blasphemy. The Racial & Religious Hatred Act was only just passed in 2006, and the Criminal Justice & Immigration Act was passed in 2008 (perhaps therein lies the error; the writer meant to type "Britain most recently strengthened its blasphemy laws in 2008...").

    So there's really no question for Britons about the right punishment for blasphemy; their parliament has already decided it is seven years' incarceration if
    "a person ... uses ... insulting words ... or displays any written material which is ... insulting, if he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or, having regard to all the circumstances, racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby."

    There you are: The punishment for blasphemy in Britain is up to seven years' in the gaol. If you murder a bicyclist in cold blood, of course, the punishment is four years' in gaol. The punishment must fit the crime, you see; even the Mikado knew as much.
    , @Eagle Eye

    The Beeb is having to answer these “vibrant” questions more and more.
     
    Of course, all this is parts of a project, decades in the making, to atomize and destroy the working classes and lower middle class, the better to institute a murderous dictatorship by self-appointed, incestuous "intellectuals."

    In fact, many of this sect seem to take their chief joy in destroying what is left of traditional institutions - the family, the law, the Church of England, and of course the people as a whole.

    Read up on the bright, thoroughly creepy Bloomsbury Group who in their flippant hatred were very much precursors of the Borg now controlling the BBC, churches, politics, local governments including "social workers," the central bureaucracy, Eurocracy, ...

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  55. @Daniel H
    I'm amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage. One does occasionally meet a few very bright Pakistanis. And there are enough bright ones to master the engineering to build an A bomb. Still, why take the risk?

    70% of British Pakistanis in the UK come from an area called Mirpur which was a rural and quite backward area with high levels of illiteracy. They were imported to work as cheap labour in provincial textile mills. Cousin marriage was very prevalent there, as it is in most rural areas, and the practice was imported with them in other areas they settled.

    It is common because inheritance and property disputes can be very protracted and it is a way of ensuring wealth remains in the family. Also if you are marrying off your daughter to the son of your brother or sister you have some assurance she will be well taken care of. The risk of marrying daughters off to bad apples is high given the low trust society that Pakistan is. In India, I believe cousin marriage is banned which means fewer genetic defects but more incidences of abuse and murder of brides by their mothers-in-law compared to Pakistan.

    It is less common in urban areas since there are more potential mates to choose from and it is the elite in the cities and the armed forces that runs Pakistan.The severely retarded and those crippled with birth defects don’t last very long. Birth defects show up as a much more aberrant phenomenon in the West where mortality rates are low.

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    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes, in-marriage is only a viable mating strategy when child mortality is high. Give such a culture access to modern medicine and the number of crippled and defective people in the population will become unsustainable.
    , @Cortes
    An excellent comment. Thank you.

    A couple of observations.

    Property in rural areas usually means land. Ownership or tenancy of long heritable leases is guarded better than the gold in Fort Knox. Convenient adjacent parcels of land will often underlie the arrangement of marriage if there's the chance of consolidating the family holding.

    This is especially true in areas of minifundia, units progressively unable to produce sufficient for the sustenance of the landholders.

    Around 1980 I heard a story about two branches of my own family in Ireland which matched exactly this scenario.
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  56. @Karl
    25 rec1man > 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    ==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don't believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old "he who has the gold, makes the rules"

    6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy..... What's the ratio in YOUR country?

    Whaaaaaat? It’s the ABSOLUTE numbers that rec1man is using to illustrate the backwardness of the place, not the ratio. Anyway, how would you know 6:1 sounds right? It’s probably more than 50-100:1 in America, but it’s because passenger service here anywhere but the Washington, FS – Boston, Mass. corridor is a joke cause it’s run by the Feral Government. People fly a lot.

    Your first reply may have been a good argument (I have no idea, and don’t even care), but this was no argument, merely BS.

    * Sent from my iPhone as far from Pakistan as is possible. *

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  57. @rec1man
    Pakistan got its nukes from China and its missiles from North Korea

    Pakistan is effectively those Punjabis who converted to Islam

    Hindu and Sikh Punjabis are in India

    In UK, Sikh Punjabis have caught up with whites, Muslim Punjabis are at black levels

    Pakistan has a net total of just 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    70% of British Pakistanis are from Mirpur, they originate from Kashmir and speak Mirpuri not Punjabi. They don’t count as Punjabi. The Punjabis are doing OK, particularly the ones who were from middle class families before they emigrated. The former Karachi dwellers tend to do best, they are usually from well-educated families.

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    • Replies: @George
    In the late 1950s and early 1960s, the Government of Pakistan planned the Mangla Dam, which was to be built in the Mirpur area. They asked several thousand locals to leave the land. At that time, the British needed man-power mainly for their textile factories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris

    Cousin marriage is a problem for non cousins.

    .ROTHERHAM ABUSE SCANDAL: Horrific reality of 'industrial scale' child grooming revealed

    Express.co.uk has chosen to refer to the abusers as Kashmiri or Mirpuri after hearing how many mainstream British Pakistanis are disgusted by the actions of a few men from those communities.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/697583/Rotherham-abuse-scandal-child-grooming-gangs-industrial-scale-victims-CSE
    , @Pachyderm Pachyderma
    You call following a cultural habit of the Semitic Arabs regarding marriages of first cousins, doing ok? No wonder the Indians abhor you...
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  58. @jtgw
    Some poor writing in that piece. E.g. "In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest." If cousin marriage is such a taboo, why has it been legal for centuries? I happen to know that it's because the Protestant reformers in the 16th century wanted to return marriage laws to their biblical roots, and the Bible happens to allow first cousin marriage, while the Catholic Church had long forbidden it. I suppose somehow this reform had little effect on the popular taboo against such marriages (whether due to lingering Catholic influence or something else), but it deserved more of an explanation by the author here.

    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church’s prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
    “Progressives,” so-called, think the state’s provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh – he knew better.

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    • Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat
    You, sir, have hit the nail on the head.
    , @AM

    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church’s prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers.
     
    That's "a" conventional explanation. There are others that are less about imagining the Catholic church as some giant power structure and more like...a church.

    Priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties. There's no 3 year old that needs attention when he should be calling on the sick. Likewise they are far more in a position to physically defend a church and it's parishioners.

    Prohibitions on marriage in the Catholic church flow from natural law. It stands to reason that if brother-sister is incest and against God's plan, 1st cousins are just 1 parent removed from incest. Ideally the further can get from incest, the closer you are to God's plan for marriage.
    , @RonaldB
    "The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government"

    I beg to differ. Your description is accurate for the left-wing, welfare-state, all-encompassing government of the EU, Sweden, or Barak Obama. But it is the opposite vision from the original US Constitution, which attempted to create a government that provided defense, a commercial infrastructure, and an effective mediation between sovereign state governments.

    The mechanisms you describe: the destruction of competing social structure, the demolishing of the sense of self and sense of identity, are hallmarks of a tyranny. The EU, the governments of Britain, France and Germany are obviously tyrannies in the making...as is the US government, moving welfare housing forcibly into established, stable neighborhoods. But, the governments of Eastern European countries, having a more homogeneous population and a sense of nationhood inherited from their oppression under Communism, actually allow the freedoms of association you identify as the antithesis of all government.
    , @jtgw
    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law, which makes sense to me. The Church later extended the degrees of consanguinity and that might have something to do with trying to weaken family loyalties, but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I'm not sure how well your theory holds up.
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  59. Altai says:
    @Rob McX

    By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.
     
    Dutch.

    Pia Kjærsgaard is always attacked by the media in Denmark as an evil witch, but her actions have done more to better her nation than any Western politician of the last 30 years. It’s incredible, go to Copenhagen then go to any other capital in Western Europe. Hell, take the bridge to Malmo…

    The success of the Danish Peoples Party should give us all hope and is, of course, a direct rebuke of anything being ‘inevitable’.

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  60. @AnotherDad
    Geez, what are these people doing in Britain?

    Didn’t you read the article? Why, they are “British Pakistanis.” You know, just like Brasilian Russians, dry moisture, and freezing heat.

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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Ali Choudhury
    70% of British Pakistanis in the UK come from an area called Mirpur which was a rural and quite backward area with high levels of illiteracy. They were imported to work as cheap labour in provincial textile mills. Cousin marriage was very prevalent there, as it is in most rural areas, and the practice was imported with them in other areas they settled.

    It is common because inheritance and property disputes can be very protracted and it is a way of ensuring wealth remains in the family. Also if you are marrying off your daughter to the son of your brother or sister you have some assurance she will be well taken care of. The risk of marrying daughters off to bad apples is high given the low trust society that Pakistan is. In India, I believe cousin marriage is banned which means fewer genetic defects but more incidences of abuse and murder of brides by their mothers-in-law compared to Pakistan.

    It is less common in urban areas since there are more potential mates to choose from and it is the elite in the cities and the armed forces that runs Pakistan.The severely retarded and those crippled with birth defects don't last very long. Birth defects show up as a much more aberrant phenomenon in the West where mortality rates are low.

    Yes, in-marriage is only a viable mating strategy when child mortality is high. Give such a culture access to modern medicine and the number of crippled and defective people in the population will become unsustainable.

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  62. Pericles says:
    @anon
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10958728/Australian-judge-says-incest-may-no-longer-be-a-taboo.html

    BTW, due to increased non-traditional births (non-monogamy, non-marital, extra-marital, sperm donor based etc.,) real incidences of consanguineous marriages nowadays is probably quite high. DNA tests are showing surprisingly close relations between many couples.

    Australian judges seem to be perhaps the worst, most pozzed in the world. Even taking California into account.

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  63. @Thomas
    The Beeb is having to answer these "vibrant" questions more and more.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39316253 "BBC Asian Network apologises for tweet about blasphemy"

    What a howler! The piece claims “Britain abolished its blasphemy laws in 2008,” but the Public Order Act was passed in 1986 and the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act of 1994 extended its punishments for blasphemy. The Racial & Religious Hatred Act was only just passed in 2006, and the Criminal Justice & Immigration Act was passed in 2008 (perhaps therein lies the error; the writer meant to type “Britain most recently strengthened its blasphemy laws in 2008…”).

    So there’s really no question for Britons about the right punishment for blasphemy; their parliament has already decided it is seven years’ incarceration if
    “a person … uses … insulting words … or displays any written material which is … insulting, if he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or, having regard to all the circumstances, racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby.”

    There you are: The punishment for blasphemy in Britain is up to seven years’ in the gaol. If you murder a bicyclist in cold blood, of course, the punishment is four years’ in gaol. The punishment must fit the crime, you see; even the Mikado knew as much.

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  64. They might be marrying their cousins, but its the local teen girls that they’re screwing (see Rotheram).

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  65. AndrewR says:
    @ScarletNumber

    first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest
     
    Isn't first-cousin marriage incest?

    Also, I think Hiba should marry Uncle Younis. I have a niece that I wouldn't mind getting to know in a biblical sense.

    “I have a niece that I wouldn’t mind getting to know in a biblical sense.”

    JFC. I hope you’re prohibited by court order from contact with her.

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  66. George says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    70% of British Pakistanis are from Mirpur, they originate from Kashmir and speak Mirpuri not Punjabi. They don't count as Punjabi. The Punjabis are doing OK, particularly the ones who were from middle class families before they emigrated. The former Karachi dwellers tend to do best, they are usually from well-educated families.

    In the late 1950s and early 1960s, the Government of Pakistan planned the Mangla Dam, which was to be built in the Mirpur area. They asked several thousand locals to leave the land. At that time, the British needed man-power mainly for their textile factories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mirpuris

    Cousin marriage is a problem for non cousins.

    .ROTHERHAM ABUSE SCANDAL: Horrific reality of ‘industrial scale’ child grooming revealed

    Express.co.uk has chosen to refer to the abusers as Kashmiri or Mirpuri after hearing how many mainstream British Pakistanis are disgusted by the actions of a few men from those communities.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/697583/Rotherham-abuse-scandal-child-grooming-gangs-industrial-scale-victims-CSE

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  67. … the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24

    I guess there must be a huge problem with young Dutch girls marrying Danes, but I think I have a better solution to the problem.

    See here: https://www.bustle.com/articles/35527-the-dutch-wife-sex-doll-is-so-realistic-who-needs-a-girlfriend

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  68. CAL says:
    @PiltdownMan

    By the way, the Dutch government banned, I believe, any foreigner getting a visa for marrying a Danish resident under age 24 to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud.
     
    Where's the fraud if they mostly genuinely happen to marry their cousins, as seems to be the case? It would be fraud if the cousin marriages were breaking up, suspiciously often, after the immigration status was granted to the foreign cousin partner, but this BBC story seems to indicate otherwise.

    And it seems to be a crackdown on child, or, at any rate, early adulthood marriage, not cousin marriages.

    You’re assuming it’s a willing marriage. Often it’s the parents telling the daughter that she is going to marry cousin Achmed and bring him back with her. If she doesn’t like it, well uppity women in Islam tend to end up beaten or dead. The police aren’t going to do anything since they are being culturally sensitive.

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  69. Art Deco says:

    The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride. Persons aspiring to settle in Britain, should be required to pass an English proficiency test and a background check and told to wait in a queue. Persons from problem countries like Pakistan should be told to apply as nuclear families (mother, father, children) or to apply as middle-aged married couples and that applications from single adults (esp lone men) are not accepted.

    Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it’s regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. To bring a non EU spouse over on a spousal visa you need to be earning over 18600 GBP. Bringing in elderly dependent parents to settle permanently is close is impossible. Awareness of birth defects due to consanguinity is much higher than it used to be. I would predict the frequency of cousin marriage will decline as the first generation who originated from the old country die out.
    , @StillCARealist
    "the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes."

    That's the case, and the problem, everywhere on earth.

    But my other point on this topic would be: What about diversity?! How can cousin marriage possibly contribute to diversity? Horrors.
    , @AM

    The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride.
     
    Yes, cousin marriage is a problem. Inbreeding creates cumulative, long term genetic problems. You can get away with it for one or even 2 generations. There is plenty of history around though that suggests even cousin marriage is playing with fire.
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  70. @AM

    So, should Hiba marry a cousin?
     
    Responsible answer: No.
    Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)

    Knock yourself out

    Literally. Scientists are analyzing inbred Pakistanis as a vast natural experiment called the human knockout project.

    https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v544/n7649/full/nature22034.html

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  71. @Anonymous
    From a purely Hamiltonian 'ethnic genetic interest' perspective, it all makes sense - regardless of the 'cost' of possible birth defects.

    The 'opportunity cost' of living in the UK outweighs the negativity of the increased likelihood of genetically induced illness amongst the progeny of such unions.
    Such is the hard rationalism of the 'modern synthesis'.

    Yea except there are extremely high rates of consanguinity among Pakistanis in Pakistan. So this is not a unique response to cruel U.K. immigration policies it is just part of their culture.

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  72. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    Janelle…….bring me the dictionary!

    - Leonard Pitts

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  73. @Dana Thompson
    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church's prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
    "Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.

    You, sir, have hit the nail on the head.

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  74. Insanity says:

    That’s the root of terrorism, crazy and stupid inbreds.

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  75. @Art Deco
    The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride. Persons aspiring to settle in Britain, should be required to pass an English proficiency test and a background check and told to wait in a queue. Persons from problem countries like Pakistan should be told to apply as nuclear families (mother, father, children) or to apply as middle-aged married couples and that applications from single adults (esp lone men) are not accepted.

    Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it's regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.

    To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. To bring a non EU spouse over on a spousal visa you need to be earning over 18600 GBP. Bringing in elderly dependent parents to settle permanently is close is impossible. Awareness of birth defects due to consanguinity is much higher than it used to be. I would predict the frequency of cousin marriage will decline as the first generation who originated from the old country die out.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. ...
     
    In other words the managerial state has improved the cosmetics of the genocide of the Britons.

    Britain is the home of the Britons people. It belongs to them and them alone. They have a small--already crowded--island and sub-replacement fertility. And the thuggish state that now rules them is still dragging in more and more hostile, incompatible and faster breeding foreigners--including Muslims who have absolutely no business there, are the historic (and continual) antagonists of the West and can never be Britons.

    All you're telling me is the state wants to keep the native Britons from noticing so they've put some scrubbers on the smokestacks.

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  76. I am a white Briton who is the product of an affair between first cousins. I am a very healthy 72 and I can see from DNA tests that although I am very inbred I don’t seem to have any “bad genes”. I’ve looked at my genealogy and I haven’t found a single ancestor since about 1790 who died younger than 70. Many of them have reached 90. Perhaps I am just lucky but I think cousin marriage is getting an unfair press. Instead of just thinking about low IQ Pakistanis think about Darwin’s brilliant offspring.

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    • Replies: @AM

    Perhaps I am just lucky but I think cousin marriage is getting an unfair press. Instead of just thinking about low IQ Pakistanis think about Darwin’s brilliant offspring.
     
    Go with the first thing. Sure, out of 10 children Darwin had, 3 died young. Another 3 could never have children. But 3 of them got fellowships in The Royal Society, which I'm sure had nothing to do with dad being Charles Darwin.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270760/How-Charles-Darwins-family-paid-price-inbreeding.html
    , @Art Deco
    I agree with you that the problems are overstated. However, you have a few generations in a row of proximate cousin marriage and you get some, uh, interesting characters. My grandmother used to say her mother-in-law was a cautionary example.
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  77. Neuday says:

    . . . the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.

    I wonder what tribe has seized the American state?

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  78. rec1man says:
    @Karl
    25 rec1man > 72 rail engines , of which 62 are hauling goods and 10 for passenger trains

    ==I have seen== the Pak Railways engine switching yard. So I don't believe that those numbers you quote are correct. It varies over time. What China wants, has a lot of influence over freight movements in Pakistan. Not in any devious way, just good old "he who has the gold, makes the rules"

    6:1 freight:passenger sounds about right for an economy..... What's the ratio in YOUR country?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Railways#Locomotives

    Pakistan Railways currently has 190 working DE locomotives. The average life of entire fleet (465 DE locomotives) is 25 years

    whereas, India has 5000 locomotives

    http://24coaches.com/indian-railways-facts-and-figures/

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  79. @Art Deco
    The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride. Persons aspiring to settle in Britain, should be required to pass an English proficiency test and a background check and told to wait in a queue. Persons from problem countries like Pakistan should be told to apply as nuclear families (mother, father, children) or to apply as middle-aged married couples and that applications from single adults (esp lone men) are not accepted.

    Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it's regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.

    “the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.”

    That’s the case, and the problem, everywhere on earth.

    But my other point on this topic would be: What about diversity?! How can cousin marriage possibly contribute to diversity? Horrors.

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  80. Rob McX says:
    @Dana Thompson
    William and Mary, too, and Edgar Allan Poe, and the Hapsburgs. People of Quality have always been reluctant to share their genes outside the family. And Cleopatra - wasn't she the product of seven generations of brother-sister marriage? She was enough of a babe for wars to be fought over.

    Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs, as you can see from that famous jaw in their portraits. You know things are pretty bad when you’ve got only four great-grandparents instead of eight, as was the case with Philip IV of Spain.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs,

    The big thing was the insistence in the House of Hapsburg (and other royal families) that 'unequal marriages' were morganatic. I think this sort of rule came to be prevalent in the early modern period. Prior to 1806, there were a great many minor German royals from which to choose. After that, your prospects were few.
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  81. “Cousins shouldn’t marry, even second cousins. It weakens the strain. It isn’t like
    horses. You can breed a mare to a brother or a sire to a daughter
    and get good results if you know your blood strains, but in people
    it just doesn’t work. You get good lines, perhaps, but no
    stamina. You–”

    “Now, Ma’m, I’m taking issue with you on that! Can you name me
    better people than the Wilkes? And they’ve been intermarrying
    since Brian Boru was a boy.”

    “And high time they stopped it, for it’s beginning to show. Oh,
    not Ashley so much, for he’s a good-looking devil, though even he–
    But look at those two washed-out-looking Wilkes girls, poor
    things! Nice girls, of course, but washed out. And look at
    little Miss Melanie. Thin as a rail and delicate enough for the
    wind to blow away and no spirit at all. Not a notion of her own.
    ‘No, Ma’m!’ ‘Yes, Ma’m!’ That’s all she has to say. You see what
    I mean? That family needs new blood, fine vigorous blood like my
    red heads or your Scarlett. Now, don’t misunderstand me. The
    Wilkes are fine folks in their way, and you know I’m fond of them
    all, but be frank! They are overbred and inbred too, aren’t they?
    They’ll do fine on a dry track, a fast track, but mark my words, I
    don’t believe the Wilkes can run on a mud track. I believe the
    stamina has been bred out of them, and when the emergency arises I
    don’t believe they can run against odds. Dry-weather stock. Give
    me a big horse who can run in any weather! And their intermarrying
    has made them different from other folks around here. Always
    fiddling with the piano or sticking their heads in a book. I do
    believe Ashley would rather read than hunt! Yes, I honestly believe
    that, Mr. O’Hara! And just look at the bones on them. Too slender.
    They need dams and sires with strength–”

    Margaret Mitchell, “Gone With the Wind”

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yes, "race" as in lineage and "race" as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses "race" to refer to both.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Yes, "race" as in lineage and "race" as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses "race" to refer to both. You breed racehorses, so race means both a test of speed and breeding.
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  82. JamesG says:

    Yes!

    The dumber they become the better off the rest of us will be.

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  83. @ANON
    The Jewish part of the bible allows first cousin marriage. The Jewish and Christian parts of the bible are very different, in fact opposites. It's not rational that Christians believe in both.
    But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.

    The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?

    Marrying first cousins was a step up from the common pagan practice of marrying siblings or half-siblings (which Abraham may have followed, depending on your translation), but still avoided marrying outsiders (“the daughters of the land”) who might spread pagan customs (and dissipate tribal wealth). At the times of “Tobit” and “Ruth,” cousins and members of the same tribe still had the inside track.

    The tendency to consanguinity diminished as the world became more populated and more centered in cities and villages instead of nomadic tribes. It became easier to arrange marriages with people who weren’t pagans but weren’t so closely related that genetic characteristics became unhealthily exaggerated.

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  84. Hiba is attractive enough. I don’t think she should marry a cousin. I think she should enter the pr0n industry. Can’t we all see from that photo what kind of girl she is? She doesn’t want a husband, she wants to be independant from mom and dad and be famous.

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  85. AM says:
    @Art Deco
    The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride. Persons aspiring to settle in Britain, should be required to pass an English proficiency test and a background check and told to wait in a queue. Persons from problem countries like Pakistan should be told to apply as nuclear families (mother, father, children) or to apply as middle-aged married couples and that applications from single adults (esp lone men) are not accepted.

    Stanley Kurtz (a lapsed anthropologist, btw) had an essay a while back on the social implications of parallel cousin marriage (v. cross-cousin marriage). The burden of his argument was that public life in any country where it's regularly practiced will be problematic because the state functions as a prize to be seized by competing tribes.

    The problem is not so much cousin marriage per se, but lax immigration laws which allow you to import a groom or a bride.

    Yes, cousin marriage is a problem. Inbreeding creates cumulative, long term genetic problems. You can get away with it for one or even 2 generations. There is plenty of history around though that suggests even cousin marriage is playing with fire.

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  86. Olorin says:
    @epochehusserl
    This is an awesome de-mystification of equalism. Not all groups can be equal even in theory because some groups practice cousin marriage. Jared Taylor should have mentioned this on his ABC interview with the Pakistani host.

    It should also be a de-mystification of the low quality of what passes for “journalism” and “documentaries” among forced-government-tax-supported broadcasters like Ma Beeb.

    A responsible “documentary” would look at this not from this Beeb-certified soap opera angle but from a genetic and population one, in the past, present, and going forward.

    Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you’re forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders’ families than their own.

    I.e., the consequences of their OWN children not being able to find appropriate marriage partners is never touched upon.

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    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you’re forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders’ families than their own.
    -------------------------------
    Don't you know that everything must cater to the histrionic single women's voting block?

    Ironically enough, there was an article the other day about the shortage of eligible men for such women in the telegraph.
    -------------------------
    from
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/

    dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    sometimes I wonder whether we are smart enough to continue as a species.
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  87. AM says:
    @Dana Thompson
    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church's prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
    "Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.

    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church’s prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers.

    That’s “a” conventional explanation. There are others that are less about imagining the Catholic church as some giant power structure and more like…a church.

    Priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties. There’s no 3 year old that needs attention when he should be calling on the sick. Likewise they are far more in a position to physically defend a church and it’s parishioners.

    Prohibitions on marriage in the Catholic church flow from natural law. It stands to reason that if brother-sister is incest and against God’s plan, 1st cousins are just 1 parent removed from incest. Ideally the further can get from incest, the closer you are to God’s plan for marriage.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    "HE that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief. Certainly the best works, and of greatest merit for the public, have proceeded from the unmarried or childless men; which both in affection and means have married and endowed the public."

    - Bacon's Essays
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  88. I think she should marry her cousin, because Genetic Decline!

    Meanwhile, Slavery is rife in London:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-slavery-modern-britain-idUSL1660050320070321

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  89. @Mr. Anon

    In this provocative and personal documentary, 18 year-old Bradford-born Hiba explores the controversial but legal custom of first-cousin marriage. …
     
    Hiba? Spelled H1Ba, no doubt.

    My first thought as well. Maybe her cousin is Daca.

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  90. LKM says:

    At least this girl is being asked. Most would simply be told.

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  91. anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer
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  92. Eagle Eye says:
    @anony-mouse
    1/ '... to crack down on this kind of cousin marriage immigration fraud...'

    Not necessarily fraud. In Hiba's family's case that's how they actually marry.

    2/ Look at the bright side. First cousin marriage can lead to the overall lowering of the IQ's of British Pakistanis. Isn't that a good thing?

    Pakistanis – not surprisingly – account for a VASTLY disproportionate number of serious birth defects requiring LIFELONG medical attention, all provided “free” by the NHS, Britains socialist “National Health Service.”

    Per capita, Pakistanis probably account for about 10 times more serious birth defects than the native English and Scottish populations.

    Of course, as is always the case with immigrant communities, the vast majority of Pakistanis come from only a small handful of local/caste communities back in Pakistan, the “Land of the Pure.”

    And yes, SJWs will hate you for knowing this, but Muslims (and even Christians) on the Indian sub-continent do practice stringent caste discrimination.

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  93. bomag says:
    @ANON
    What's wrong with getting married at 15,16,or 17? I'm actually familiar with that California law. The important thing is the consent of the judge. The juvenile court judges who consent to these marriages are very, very protective of this minors who want to get married. It's usually a girl and a man 10 years older. There is an investigation of both prospective spouses and the parents. The prospective spouse must have a decent, reasonably secure job and able to support the minor spouse. Generally the spouse must have had the job for 2 years. References are required but not just accepted. Juvenile court investigators investigate the references and everything. It's almost like applying to adopt a child.
    It was always pretty rare. Marriage is declining anyway so teen age marriage is also declining.

    Every tried to get a court order about anything? It's not that easy.

    And as I wrote before, what's wrong with getting married in the middle teens, especially if the spouse has been investigated throughly and deemed fit.

    Every tried to get a court order about anything? It’s not that easy.

    Unless you are an immigrant/refugee. I’m amazed at their legal power. I can’t get past the receptionist at the law firms around here.

    Re: child marriage in CA; I’m wondering about the ethnicity/SES of those using the courts this way. It sounds like a breeding program for Gypsies.

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  94. Eagle Eye says:
    @Thomas
    The Beeb is having to answer these "vibrant" questions more and more.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39316253 "BBC Asian Network apologises for tweet about blasphemy"

    The Beeb is having to answer these “vibrant” questions more and more.

    Of course, all this is parts of a project, decades in the making, to atomize and destroy the working classes and lower middle class, the better to institute a murderous dictatorship by self-appointed, incestuous “intellectuals.”

    In fact, many of this sect seem to take their chief joy in destroying what is left of traditional institutions – the family, the law, the Church of England, and of course the people as a whole.

    Read up on the bright, thoroughly creepy Bloomsbury Group who in their flippant hatred were very much precursors of the Borg now controlling the BBC, churches, politics, local governments including “social workers,” the central bureaucracy, Eurocracy, …

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  95. George says:

    Should I Marry My Cousin?

    Yes, because it will reduce the chance of your cousin being a social pest. Your cousin’s plan b is importing a child bride whose family he will extort for dowry gifts. While he waits to be married he will abuse English girls. So please marry your cousin ASAP. Do it for England.

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  96. RonaldB says:
    @Dana Thompson
    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church's prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
    "Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.

    “The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government”

    I beg to differ. Your description is accurate for the left-wing, welfare-state, all-encompassing government of the EU, Sweden, or Barak Obama. But it is the opposite vision from the original US Constitution, which attempted to create a government that provided defense, a commercial infrastructure, and an effective mediation between sovereign state governments.

    The mechanisms you describe: the destruction of competing social structure, the demolishing of the sense of self and sense of identity, are hallmarks of a tyranny. The EU, the governments of Britain, France and Germany are obviously tyrannies in the making…as is the US government, moving welfare housing forcibly into established, stable neighborhoods. But, the governments of Eastern European countries, having a more homogeneous population and a sense of nationhood inherited from their oppression under Communism, actually allow the freedoms of association you identify as the antithesis of all government.

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  97. jtgw says:
    @ANON
    The Jewish part of the bible allows first cousin marriage. The Jewish and Christian parts of the bible are very different, in fact opposites. It's not rational that Christians believe in both.
    But they do. Although Jesus and his first few hundred followers were Jews, everything Jesus preached was a rejection of the Judiasm of the time.

    The next step in the Islamination of Britian is lowering the age of consent for boys and girls to 6. They already have defacto sex slavery of young White girls. Why not make sex slavery of White girls legal ?

    Except the New Testament says nothing about cousin marriage; that was an extra-biblical development in the Christian tradition. I honestly don’t know where the Church got the idea that cousin marriage was bad, but I think hbdchick among others has done a lot of research into this, so maybe check out her blog.

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  98. jtgw says:
    @Dana Thompson
    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church's prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers. The same principle unlies the prime directive of every system of governance, which is to destroy all sense of community outside the government, e. g. by forced integration of schools and obliteration of racial and cultural homogeneity, destruction of family structure, marginalization of private charity, and supplanting of collective bargaining with state paternalism. Complete power requires destruction of all competition. It has been so, ever since the Pharaohs conflated themselves with deity and state-parentage. God the Father is properly defined as the highest power of which the mind can conceive, which for most people is the government, and we all know the one true God is a jealous God.
    "Progressives," so-called, think the state's provision for all our needs is the latest thing, at the forefront of progress. Ramses the Great would laugh - he knew better.

    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law, which makes sense to me. The Church later extended the degrees of consanguinity and that might have something to do with trying to weaken family loyalties, but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I’m not sure how well your theory holds up.

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    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter

    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law,
     
    And, as we all know, Wikipedia is unbiased and accurate in everything.
    , @Art Deco
    , but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    There is no Christian moral teaching which antedates the 'institutionalization of the Church' bar those from the mouth of Christ.
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  99. @Daniel H
    I'm amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage. One does occasionally meet a few very bright Pakistanis. And there are enough bright ones to master the engineering to build an A bomb. Still, why take the risk?

    A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani who is called the father-of-the-bomb , is a Muhajir, an ethnicity that is composed of Muslims who emmigrated to Pakistan from present day India. A.Q. Khan stole the technology for centrifuges from the European consortium URENCO. Muhajirs are responsible for making Karachi the economic hub of Pakistan and advancing the Pakistani economy. The national language of Pakistan (Urdu), was introduced by this group, and has its roots in Central India.

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  100. @jtgw
    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law, which makes sense to me. The Church later extended the degrees of consanguinity and that might have something to do with trying to weaken family loyalties, but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I'm not sure how well your theory holds up.

    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law,

    And, as we all know, Wikipedia is unbiased and accurate in everything.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    Do you have a better explanation with better documentation? The explanation seems to make sense to me: there is nothing Biblical about prohibiting cousin marriage, so the only other plausible source is something in the pagan Greco-Roman culture of the time.
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  101. Cousin marriage is Halal (permitted, recommended) in Islam. So Muslims marrying their 1st cousin have religion telling them it is good practice.

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  102. Cortes says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    70% of British Pakistanis in the UK come from an area called Mirpur which was a rural and quite backward area with high levels of illiteracy. They were imported to work as cheap labour in provincial textile mills. Cousin marriage was very prevalent there, as it is in most rural areas, and the practice was imported with them in other areas they settled.

    It is common because inheritance and property disputes can be very protracted and it is a way of ensuring wealth remains in the family. Also if you are marrying off your daughter to the son of your brother or sister you have some assurance she will be well taken care of. The risk of marrying daughters off to bad apples is high given the low trust society that Pakistan is. In India, I believe cousin marriage is banned which means fewer genetic defects but more incidences of abuse and murder of brides by their mothers-in-law compared to Pakistan.

    It is less common in urban areas since there are more potential mates to choose from and it is the elite in the cities and the armed forces that runs Pakistan.The severely retarded and those crippled with birth defects don't last very long. Birth defects show up as a much more aberrant phenomenon in the West where mortality rates are low.

    An excellent comment. Thank you.

    A couple of observations.

    Property in rural areas usually means land. Ownership or tenancy of long heritable leases is guarded better than the gold in Fort Knox. Convenient adjacent parcels of land will often underlie the arrangement of marriage if there’s the chance of consolidating the family holding.

    This is especially true in areas of minifundia, units progressively unable to produce sufficient for the sustenance of the landholders.

    Around 1980 I heard a story about two branches of my own family in Ireland which matched exactly this scenario.

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    • Replies: @Cortes
    Ought to be "are guarded."

    Apologies.
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  103. @Ed
    The business on Britain is business, capital wants labor, if it can't find it in the domestic population, they'll find slaves or import people from far off lands.

    A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.

    “A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s.”

    Nonsense. In the early 50s the entire ‘visible minority’ population of the UK was only about 25,000 in a nation of 50 million.

    They were brought over in the late 50s and 60s to work in the foundries of the Midlands (now mostly gone) and the textile mills of the North and Leicester (ditto). Cheap labour which turned out to be not so cheap after all.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Nothing in history will turn out to be so devastatingly costly as "cheap labour".
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  104. Art Deco says:
    @jtgw
    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law, which makes sense to me. The Church later extended the degrees of consanguinity and that might have something to do with trying to weaken family loyalties, but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    The Ancient Egyptian royals were quite tolerant of consanguineous and even incestuous marriage, so I'm not sure how well your theory holds up.

    , but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    There is no Christian moral teaching which antedates the ‘institutionalization of the Church’ bar those from the mouth of Christ.

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    • Replies: @jtgw
    We're talking history here, not theology or apologetics. Where did Christians get the idea that cousin marriage was bad? There is no hint of such a prohibition in Scripture, which is full of stories of close consanguineous marriages. The most plausible source seems to be Roman law, based on Roman upper class marriage norms.
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  105. Art Deco says:
    @Rob McX
    Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs, as you can see from that famous jaw in their portraits. You know things are pretty bad when you've got only four great-grandparents instead of eight, as was the case with Philip IV of Spain.

    Cousin marriage was a big thing with the Habsburgs,

    The big thing was the insistence in the House of Hapsburg (and other royal families) that ‘unequal marriages’ were morganatic. I think this sort of rule came to be prevalent in the early modern period. Prior to 1806, there were a great many minor German royals from which to choose. After that, your prospects were few.

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  106. Halal means permitted in Islam. Within halal, if something is mustahab, then it is recommended.

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  107. @jtgw
    Actually I think he meant the Danish government.

    I saw that, but I thought maybe Steve was talking about some weird scheme where Muslims wed in Denmark, then settle in Holland.

    I have one female first cousin. We were close as kids – spent a lot of weekends swimming in my grandparents’ pool. On many a lazy Sunday afternoon, my mother took us to the el-cheapo second-run discount movie theater.

    (Mom, ever the penny-pincher, refused to pay the inflated prices at the concession stand. But she always smuggled salty snacks and warm cans of grocery-store-brand cola in her purse.)

    Sadly, as I grew older, I came to understand that she was certifiably wacko. (My cousin, that is. We’ll talk about my mother some other time.)

    One morning, while under the influence of … something, my cousin mistakenly interpreted her beloved cat’s apparent disappearance as incontrovertible evidence that he had met a bad end. Unable to cope with this seeming tragedy, she proceeded to slash her wrists.

    She literally died at the hospital, but they were able to bring her back.

    After a succession of bad relationships (and suicide attempts/threats), she married a vibrant individual. They now have two kids.

    Now, before you say anything, let me assure you that this man is a genuine credit to his race – nice guy, hard worker. (His IQ aspires to the triple digits, but no one’s perfect.)

    After her second miscarriage (and her resulting hysteria), he walked out on her. She threatened to slash her wrists. He came back. Shortly thereafter, she became pregnant with their first child.

    Her father was born in the Deep South, and most of her relatives on that side still live there. Her paternal grandfather was not pleased that she married a black man, and he was even less pleased that she hid it from him for two years. But he didn’t cut her out of his will, so he couldn’t have been that unhappy.

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  108. Cortes says:
    @Cortes
    An excellent comment. Thank you.

    A couple of observations.

    Property in rural areas usually means land. Ownership or tenancy of long heritable leases is guarded better than the gold in Fort Knox. Convenient adjacent parcels of land will often underlie the arrangement of marriage if there's the chance of consolidating the family holding.

    This is especially true in areas of minifundia, units progressively unable to produce sufficient for the sustenance of the landholders.

    Around 1980 I heard a story about two branches of my own family in Ireland which matched exactly this scenario.

    Ought to be “are guarded.”

    Apologies.

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  109. MBlanc46 says:

    Let them marry whomever they want, so long as they don’t do it in my country.

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  110. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Marriage aside… anybody here ever do anything… unusual… with their cousins?

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  111. @Tiny Duck
    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    You do realize that first cousin marriage is illegal in Kentucky, West Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi and legal in New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Rhode Island?

    Dang inbred Yankees.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    That's because in civilized states they never thought to make it illegal because it was never a problem.
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  112. @anonymous
    Meanwhile, in California...

    "Effort to bar child marriage in California runs into opposition", Jill Tucker, San Francisco Chronicle, July 6, 2017:


    "A Bay Area legislator was shocked when he learned from a young constituent that while Californians cannot legally consent to sex until they are 18, they can — with the permission of a parent and a judge’s order — get married at any age, even if their spouse is many years older...

    ...resulting proposal to bar juveniles from getting hitched has been watered down after it prompted strong objections from civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union...

    ...Nationally, about 5 of every 1,000 children ages 15 to 17 were married as of 2014...

    ...Other opponents said marriage is a fundamental right, and that some juveniles not only marry willingly but benefit.."

     

    I didn’t read the entire story, but given the wholesale legalization of same-sex marriage in this country, I have a hunch that NAMBLA is involved in this somehow. (How some rich pederast gets his “boyfriend’s” parents to consent to the “marriage” is, of course, no one’s business but the parties’ respective tax advisors…)

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  113. @Rosamond Vincy
    "Cousins shouldn't marry, even second cousins. It weakens the strain. It isn't like
    horses. You can breed a mare to a brother or a sire to a daughter
    and get good results if you know your blood strains, but in people
    it just doesn't work. You get good lines, perhaps, but no
    stamina. You--"

    "Now, Ma'm, I'm taking issue with you on that! Can you name me
    better people than the Wilkes? And they've been intermarrying
    since Brian Boru was a boy."

    "And high time they stopped it, for it's beginning to show. Oh,
    not Ashley so much, for he's a good-looking devil, though even he--
    But look at those two washed-out-looking Wilkes girls, poor
    things! Nice girls, of course, but washed out. And look at
    little Miss Melanie. Thin as a rail and delicate enough for the
    wind to blow away and no spirit at all. Not a notion of her own.
    'No, Ma'm!' 'Yes, Ma'm!' That's all she has to say. You see what
    I mean? That family needs new blood, fine vigorous blood like my
    red heads or your Scarlett. Now, don't misunderstand me. The
    Wilkes are fine folks in their way, and you know I'm fond of them
    all, but be frank! They are overbred and inbred too, aren't they?
    They'll do fine on a dry track, a fast track, but mark my words, I
    don't believe the Wilkes can run on a mud track. I believe the
    stamina has been bred out of them, and when the emergency arises I
    don't believe they can run against odds. Dry-weather stock. Give
    me a big horse who can run in any weather! And their intermarrying
    has made them different from other folks around here. Always
    fiddling with the piano or sticking their heads in a book. I do
    believe Ashley would rather read than hunt! Yes, I honestly believe
    that, Mr. O'Hara! And just look at the bones on them. Too slender.
    They need dams and sires with strength--"

    Margaret Mitchell, "Gone With the Wind"

    Yes, “race” as in lineage and “race” as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses “race” to refer to both.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    Actually they are homographs, words that look and sound the same, but have different meanings.

    The Old Norse word 'ras' meant running water, as in mill race, head race, tail race, terms used in the construction of channels to drive water wheels, and later applied to running, and racing horses, whereas the later word comes from French and is probably associated with similar words in Italian and Spanish that mean race as in a group of people with similar characteristics.

    Shakespeare was a great punster, though many of his puns are missed by modern readers because words have changed their forms, sounds, and meanings.

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  114. @Rosamond Vincy
    "Cousins shouldn't marry, even second cousins. It weakens the strain. It isn't like
    horses. You can breed a mare to a brother or a sire to a daughter
    and get good results if you know your blood strains, but in people
    it just doesn't work. You get good lines, perhaps, but no
    stamina. You--"

    "Now, Ma'm, I'm taking issue with you on that! Can you name me
    better people than the Wilkes? And they've been intermarrying
    since Brian Boru was a boy."

    "And high time they stopped it, for it's beginning to show. Oh,
    not Ashley so much, for he's a good-looking devil, though even he--
    But look at those two washed-out-looking Wilkes girls, poor
    things! Nice girls, of course, but washed out. And look at
    little Miss Melanie. Thin as a rail and delicate enough for the
    wind to blow away and no spirit at all. Not a notion of her own.
    'No, Ma'm!' 'Yes, Ma'm!' That's all she has to say. You see what
    I mean? That family needs new blood, fine vigorous blood like my
    red heads or your Scarlett. Now, don't misunderstand me. The
    Wilkes are fine folks in their way, and you know I'm fond of them
    all, but be frank! They are overbred and inbred too, aren't they?
    They'll do fine on a dry track, a fast track, but mark my words, I
    don't believe the Wilkes can run on a mud track. I believe the
    stamina has been bred out of them, and when the emergency arises I
    don't believe they can run against odds. Dry-weather stock. Give
    me a big horse who can run in any weather! And their intermarrying
    has made them different from other folks around here. Always
    fiddling with the piano or sticking their heads in a book. I do
    believe Ashley would rather read than hunt! Yes, I honestly believe
    that, Mr. O'Hara! And just look at the bones on them. Too slender.
    They need dams and sires with strength--"

    Margaret Mitchell, "Gone With the Wind"

    Yes, “race” as in lineage and “race” as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses “race” to refer to both. You breed racehorses, so race means both a test of speed and breeding.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius
    "Only—but this is rare—
    When a belovèd hand is laid in ours,
    When, jaded with the rush and glare
    Of the interminable hours,
    Our eyes can in another's eyes read clear,
    When our world-deafen'd ear
    Is by the tones of a loved voice caress'd—
    A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
    And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
    The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
    And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
    A man becomes aware of his life's flow,
    And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
    The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.

    And there arrives a lull in the hot race
    Wherein he doth for ever chase
    That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
    An air of coolness plays upon his face,
    And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
    And then he thinks he knows
    The hills where his life rose,
    And the sea where it goes. "

    from Arnold, The Buried Life
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  115. Rob McX says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    "A sizable Pakistani population has been in Britain since the 40s."

    Nonsense. In the early 50s the entire 'visible minority' population of the UK was only about 25,000 in a nation of 50 million.

    They were brought over in the late 50s and 60s to work in the foundries of the Midlands (now mostly gone) and the textile mills of the North and Leicester (ditto). Cheap labour which turned out to be not so cheap after all.

    Nothing in history will turn out to be so devastatingly costly as “cheap labour”.

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  116. @Steve Sailer
    Yes, "race" as in lineage and "race" as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses "race" to refer to both.

    Actually they are homographs, words that look and sound the same, but have different meanings.

    The Old Norse word ‘ras’ meant running water, as in mill race, head race, tail race, terms used in the construction of channels to drive water wheels, and later applied to running, and racing horses, whereas the later word comes from French and is probably associated with similar words in Italian and Spanish that mean race as in a group of people with similar characteristics.

    Shakespeare was a great punster, though many of his puns are missed by modern readers because words have changed their forms, sounds, and meanings.

    Read More
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  117. @Steve Sailer
    Yes, "race" as in lineage and "race" as in horse racing have been interrelated subjects in the English speaking mind since perhaps the 1500s. Shakespeare several times uses "race" to refer to both. You breed racehorses, so race means both a test of speed and breeding.

    “Only—but this is rare—
    When a belovèd hand is laid in ours,
    When, jaded with the rush and glare
    Of the interminable hours,
    Our eyes can in another’s eyes read clear,
    When our world-deafen’d ear
    Is by the tones of a loved voice caress’d—
    A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
    And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
    The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
    And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
    A man becomes aware of his life’s flow,
    And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
    The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.

    And there arrives a lull in the hot race
    Wherein he doth for ever chase
    That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
    An air of coolness plays upon his face,
    And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
    And then he thinks he knows
    The hills where his life rose,
    And the sea where it goes. ”

    from Arnold, The Buried Life

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  118. @Triumph104
    When Cousins Marry shows the genetic deformities in children, parents and a community in denial, and forced marriages.

    https://youtu.be/9aAD0yJ3SdQ

    I lasted about 15 minutes, then I couldn’t take any more.

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  119. AM says:
    @White Inbred
    I am a white Briton who is the product of an affair between first cousins. I am a very healthy 72 and I can see from DNA tests that although I am very inbred I don't seem to have any "bad genes". I've looked at my genealogy and I haven't found a single ancestor since about 1790 who died younger than 70. Many of them have reached 90. Perhaps I am just lucky but I think cousin marriage is getting an unfair press. Instead of just thinking about low IQ Pakistanis think about Darwin's brilliant offspring.

    Perhaps I am just lucky but I think cousin marriage is getting an unfair press. Instead of just thinking about low IQ Pakistanis think about Darwin’s brilliant offspring.

    Go with the first thing. Sure, out of 10 children Darwin had, 3 died young. Another 3 could never have children. But 3 of them got fellowships in The Royal Society, which I’m sure had nothing to do with dad being Charles Darwin.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270760/How-Charles-Darwins-family-paid-price-inbreeding.html

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  120. @Olorin
    It should also be a de-mystification of the low quality of what passes for "journalism" and "documentaries" among forced-government-tax-supported broadcasters like Ma Beeb.

    A responsible "documentary" would look at this not from this Beeb-certified soap opera angle but from a genetic and population one, in the past, present, and going forward.

    Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you're forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders' families than their own.

    I.e., the consequences of their OWN children not being able to find appropriate marriage partners is never touched upon.

    Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you’re forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders’ families than their own.
    ——————————-
    Don’t you know that everything must cater to the histrionic single women’s voting block?

    Ironically enough, there was an article the other day about the shortage of eligible men for such women in the telegraph.
    ————————-
    from

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/

    dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    sometimes I wonder whether we are smart enough to continue as a species.

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    • Replies: @Olorin
    I believe it was fellow Sailertariat commenter Desiderius who remarked recently, and most quoteworthily, that western civilization is a pact between alpha females and beta males to keep beta females and alpha males in line with monogamy and nuclear families. So that the beta males can do what they do best (civilization and the grueling unending work of its maintenance and periodic rejuvenation).

    I'm not seeing a lot in HBD and alt-right circles about alpha females other than derision. It would seem to be a topic worth visiting with a more serious and informed mind set.

    In my own circles, alpha females voted for Trump--not because they wanted him to shtup them, because they understand and feel comfortable around such an indisputably alpha male. This is the kind of man they'd love to work for because he creates strong organizations with strong loyalties and good outcomes.

    The beta females I know are almost without exception unmarried and voted for Hillary or Bernie. One voted for that Marijuana Party guy--Johnson was it?

    The alpha females I know started their careers grateful for a chance to prove themselves...then about mid-career ended up staggered to see how many organizations are run by betas. Including beta females who love destroying alpha females.

    Many lateraled into later-in-life traditional family formation.

    Some run businesses as a sideline. A few had a number of lovers but not one prided herself on being a "slut" or riding the carousel.

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  121. @AM

    The conventional explanation for the Catholic Church’s prohibition of cousin marriage is the desire to weaken clan loyalties that act in competition with allegiance to the Church. Likewise, the prohibition of priestly marriage was required to prevent multigenerational dynasties and resultant competing power-centers.
     
    That's "a" conventional explanation. There are others that are less about imagining the Catholic church as some giant power structure and more like...a church.

    Priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties. There's no 3 year old that needs attention when he should be calling on the sick. Likewise they are far more in a position to physically defend a church and it's parishioners.

    Prohibitions on marriage in the Catholic church flow from natural law. It stands to reason that if brother-sister is incest and against God's plan, 1st cousins are just 1 parent removed from incest. Ideally the further can get from incest, the closer you are to God's plan for marriage.

    “HE that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief. Certainly the best works, and of greatest merit for the public, have proceeded from the unmarried or childless men; which both in affection and means have married and endowed the public.”

    - Bacon’s Essays

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    • Agree: AM
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Add to that the critic Cyril Connolly's "There is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall".

    But against the advantage that "priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties" (yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men) you have to set the disadvantages, chief of which is that priestly celibacy, in societies where priests are high-status (and therefore likely to be chosen from the intelligent and charismatic) is highly dysgenic. To see that you only have to look at the number of major figures who are or were sons or daughters of the Protestant clergy - from Jane Austen and Lord Nelson to Alice Cooper and Nina Simone - not to mention two out of the last three UK prime ministers and the current German Chancellor (you can't win them all).

    Priests are men like any other, and in today's society would have to be saints not to be influenced at all by the culture around them, where sexual imagery is difficult to avoid unless you never open a newspaper, turn on a television or radio (BBC Radio 4, the serious 'broadsheet' broadcaster, is currently celebrating with much graphic reminiscence the decriminalisation 50 years ago of homosexual acts between consenting adults), or use the internet. Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.

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  122. @jtgw
    Some poor writing in that piece. E.g. "In Britain, where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years, first-cousin marriage is one of the last taboos, often viewed on a par with incest." If cousin marriage is such a taboo, why has it been legal for centuries? I happen to know that it's because the Protestant reformers in the 16th century wanted to return marriage laws to their biblical roots, and the Bible happens to allow first cousin marriage, while the Catholic Church had long forbidden it. I suppose somehow this reform had little effect on the popular taboo against such marriages (whether due to lingering Catholic influence or something else), but it deserved more of an explanation by the author here.

    Yup, the hand of the editor is apparent. “where cousin marriage has been legal for over 400 years” is dropped in to take the sting out. It could have used a “despite” or “although.” But making the relationship of ideas clear evidently wasn’t important to the editor.

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  123. @Tiny Duck
    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    “Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites”

    Isn’t a canard a tiny duck?

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  124. @AM

    So, should Hiba marry a cousin?
     
    Responsible answer: No.
    Real world answer: The NHS has got your back. Knock yourself out, or I guess, up. ;)

    If she has a half a brain, she’ll sink her hooks into some quality white guy, who can giver her a good crossbreeding and rescue her from her Mirpuri ghetto.

    (And since, she’s obviously doing this to “be on TV”, that may well be the plan. If she really wanted to be her Pakistani 2nd cousin’s wife she could just do it. If she wants to do a little attention whoring and advertise her charms to some white guys, than this all makes sense.)

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  125. KnaplaGB says:

    Nikolai Sennels is a Danish psychologist who has done extensive research into a little-known problem in the Muslim world: the disastrous results of Muslim inbreeding brought about by the marriage of first cousins. This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world.

    This practice of inbreeding will never go away in the Muslim world, since Muhammad is the ultimate example and authority on all matters, including marriage.

    The massive inbreeding in Muslim culture may well have done virtually irreversible damage to the Muslim gene pool, including extensive damage to its intelligence, sanity, and health. According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40%.

    The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries: 67% in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan, and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and 54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

    According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13 times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects.

    The risks of what are called autosomal recessive disorders such as cystic fibrosis, spinal muscular atrophy is 18 times higher, and the risk of death due to malformations is 10 times higher. Other negative consequences of inbreeding include a 100 percent increase in the risk of stillbirths and a 50% increase in the possibility that a child will die during labor.

    Lowered intellectual capacity is another devastating consequence of Muslim marriage patterns. According to Sennels, research shows that children of consanguineous marriages lose 10-16 points off their IQ and that social abilities develop much slower in inbred babies. The risk of having an IQ lower than 70, the official demarcation for being classified as “retarded,” increases by an astonishing 400 percent among children of cousin marriages. (Similar effects were seen in the Pharaonic dynasties in ancient Egypt and in the British royal family, where inbreeding was the norm for a significant period of time.)

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  126. Art Deco says:
    @White Inbred
    I am a white Briton who is the product of an affair between first cousins. I am a very healthy 72 and I can see from DNA tests that although I am very inbred I don't seem to have any "bad genes". I've looked at my genealogy and I haven't found a single ancestor since about 1790 who died younger than 70. Many of them have reached 90. Perhaps I am just lucky but I think cousin marriage is getting an unfair press. Instead of just thinking about low IQ Pakistanis think about Darwin's brilliant offspring.

    I agree with you that the problems are overstated. However, you have a few generations in a row of proximate cousin marriage and you get some, uh, interesting characters. My grandmother used to say her mother-in-law was a cautionary example.

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  127. Art Deco says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Only a few people even consider doing this

    You guys are just looking for something to complain about

    Besides most inbreeding is done by southern whites

    I think it was generally an upland practice, not something favored by white Southerners in general. You married the people you knew, who, as it happened, were your relatives. The last instance in my family was around 1888. You’ll notice where it was prohibited by law – places where it was perceived of as a problem.

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  128. @Daniel H
    I'm amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage. One does occasionally meet a few very bright Pakistanis. And there are enough bright ones to master the engineering to build an A bomb. Still, why take the risk?

    I’m amazed that Pakistanis have made it as far as they have civilizationally with so many centuries of first cousin marriage.

    Cousin marriage itself less grinds down your genome, than mutational effects are brought to the phenotypic fore quickly and exposed to selection. I.e. when a deleterious mutation shows up in a few generations you’ve get cousin Muhammed whose sickly or a cripple or a moron.

    My back of the envelope, cousins–otherwise unrelated–will share a chromosome on a quarter of the pairs. Their kids will thus get a duplicate from every four of those or 1/16 of the time. So on average would have 23/16 of a duplicated chromosome. But when the family is continually interbreeding–so you have shared chromosomes on both sides and shared between the sides–the chances go way up.

    But in a normal situation of Malthusian pressure, Muhammed and his deleteriously mutated genes are being rapidly washed out. In lean times there’s only food for four kids, but the family has eight. Muhammed gets sick and dies. (Or more harshly the family doesn’t feed their loser kids/babies or kills them.) The other kids–remember the family normally also carries the pre-mutated chromosome copy–roll on. If the family really gets stuck in a genetic bottleneck with a bunch of bad genes it will tend to die out, to be replaced by other families with better genes.

    I think the even bigger negatives of this sort of tribalism are the longer term ones.
    –> You are more isolated from positive mutations and selection in other tribes/families. If there was a positive mutation that made people smarter or more conscientious, and it’s in your own family/tribe–great. But if it’s off somewhere else, it takes a long long time to get into your family’s gene pool. As a tribal isolate you don’t benefit from the selection going on around you.

    –> You don’t build trust with other families and hence build trust throughout your community and scaling up, nation.

    Fixing these two things–with the church attacking tribalism and cousin marriage–helped the West grow continually smarter, more conscientious, more cooperative people with a larger “trust boundary” for position interactions, and helped the West leap ahead. It’s the great sociological achievement of the West. The Japanese managed to do it to through some different cultural route. The Chinese managed to get the shared selection pressure–the constant downward mobility that Ron Unz outlined–but didn’t develop the shared family/higher trust aspect of the West. Tribal societies in contrast are backward. Dumber people who seem to lack the capability to put together decently functioning national institutions.

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  129. @Flip
    Queen Victoria married her first cousin. Charles Darwin too.

    Queen Victoria married her first cousin.

    Yeah, and a couple generations later several of her grandchildren were at war with one another.

    (Overall the quality of the ruling houses of Europe hasn’t exactly been anything to write home to mom about.)

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  130. @Ali Choudhury
    To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. To bring a non EU spouse over on a spousal visa you need to be earning over 18600 GBP. Bringing in elderly dependent parents to settle permanently is close is impossible. Awareness of birth defects due to consanguinity is much higher than it used to be. I would predict the frequency of cousin marriage will decline as the first generation who originated from the old country die out.

    To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. …

    In other words the managerial state has improved the cosmetics of the genocide of the Britons.

    Britain is the home of the Britons people. It belongs to them and them alone. They have a small–already crowded–island and sub-replacement fertility. And the thuggish state that now rules them is still dragging in more and more hostile, incompatible and faster breeding foreigners–including Muslims who have absolutely no business there, are the historic (and continual) antagonists of the West and can never be Britons.

    All you’re telling me is the state wants to keep the native Britons from noticing so they’ve put some scrubbers on the smokestacks.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Sure. All immigration "control" in Western Europe these days is cosmetic window dressing. The immigrants' determination to get into our countries is ten times greater than the will of any politician to stop them. Any country not controlled by people hell bent on keeping it white will become non-white.
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  131. @Desiderius
    "HE that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief. Certainly the best works, and of greatest merit for the public, have proceeded from the unmarried or childless men; which both in affection and means have married and endowed the public."

    - Bacon's Essays

    Add to that the critic Cyril Connolly’s “There is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall“.

    But against the advantage that “priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties” (yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men) you have to set the disadvantages, chief of which is that priestly celibacy, in societies where priests are high-status (and therefore likely to be chosen from the intelligent and charismatic) is highly dysgenic. To see that you only have to look at the number of major figures who are or were sons or daughters of the Protestant clergy – from Jane Austen and Lord Nelson to Alice Cooper and Nina Simone – not to mention two out of the last three UK prime ministers and the current German Chancellor (you can’t win them all).

    Priests are men like any other, and in today’s society would have to be saints not to be influenced at all by the culture around them, where sexual imagery is difficult to avoid unless you never open a newspaper, turn on a television or radio (BBC Radio 4, the serious ‘broadsheet’ broadcaster, is currently celebrating with much graphic reminiscence the decriminalisation 50 years ago of homosexual acts between consenting adults), or use the internet. Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.

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    • Replies: @AM

    Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.
     
    This is a six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other argument. It's just a way of doing business with it's own advantages and disadvantages.

    How many married male preachers have had affairs, or like Martin Luther King Jr, had a sexual appetite so large you wondered how he had time to be involved in the Civil Right Movement? Okay, they're not homosexuals but they aren't exactly in control on the sexual front.

    Either you're controlling your pants or your pants are controlling you, and marriage or not, it doesn't matter.

    It turns out Catholics could lift the prohibition on married Priests at any time and revert to the Eastern tradition without any disruption at all in our thinking about it. Anglican Priests with wives/families who convert to Catholicism are most welcome under a set of conditions if the husband and wife agree.

    It really isn't a weird problem about sex. It's preferring the advantages of single men. Married clergy are also running thin in Protestant denominations and have their own set of sexual issues, so it's not clear that opening up to the Eastern tradition would help much that way.

    Catholics were doing okay when we just point blank rejected and/or threw out all homosexuals when discovered. Like other denominations who become so "tolerant" as to start to lose the plot, we've got new, modern problems. I'm not sure they're any worse or different than having lesbians in dog collars pretend to be Priests.


    yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men)
     
    Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher. I've talked extensively to one young Lutheran man online. The frustration of having the church's needs (low pay, odd/extensive hours, emotional exhaustion) be placed on his Dad created some ambivalence in an otherwise good sounding relationship. It can be done, but it's not easy. He clearly saw the advantages of the Catholic tradition/thinking on the point.
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  132. Rob McX says:
    @AnotherDad

    To become a UK citizen now, you need to have been resident for 5 years, pass a test to show you are familiar with history, culture and values of the UK and you need to demonstrate English language proficiency. ...
     
    In other words the managerial state has improved the cosmetics of the genocide of the Britons.

    Britain is the home of the Britons people. It belongs to them and them alone. They have a small--already crowded--island and sub-replacement fertility. And the thuggish state that now rules them is still dragging in more and more hostile, incompatible and faster breeding foreigners--including Muslims who have absolutely no business there, are the historic (and continual) antagonists of the West and can never be Britons.

    All you're telling me is the state wants to keep the native Britons from noticing so they've put some scrubbers on the smokestacks.

    Sure. All immigration “control” in Western Europe these days is cosmetic window dressing. The immigrants’ determination to get into our countries is ten times greater than the will of any politician to stop them. Any country not controlled by people hell bent on keeping it white will become non-white.

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  133. Olorin says:
    @epochehusserl
    Of course the soap opera angle is what keeps the gal viewership on board. Beeb has always pandered to that. When you’re forcing a population to pay a tax to support propagandization against itself, keeping the ladies on board with emotionalism is important. So is teaching them to identify more with immivaders’ families than their own.
    -------------------------------
    Don't you know that everything must cater to the histrionic single women's voting block?

    Ironically enough, there was an article the other day about the shortage of eligible men for such women in the telegraph.
    -------------------------
    from
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/04/shortage-eligible-men-has-left-women-taking-desperate-steps/

    dearth of marriagable men has left an “oversupply” of educated women taking desperate steps to preserve their fertility, experts say
    +++++++++++++++++++++
    sometimes I wonder whether we are smart enough to continue as a species.

    I believe it was fellow Sailertariat commenter Desiderius who remarked recently, and most quoteworthily, that western civilization is a pact between alpha females and beta males to keep beta females and alpha males in line with monogamy and nuclear families. So that the beta males can do what they do best (civilization and the grueling unending work of its maintenance and periodic rejuvenation).

    I’m not seeing a lot in HBD and alt-right circles about alpha females other than derision. It would seem to be a topic worth visiting with a more serious and informed mind set.

    In my own circles, alpha females voted for Trump–not because they wanted him to shtup them, because they understand and feel comfortable around such an indisputably alpha male. This is the kind of man they’d love to work for because he creates strong organizations with strong loyalties and good outcomes.

    The beta females I know are almost without exception unmarried and voted for Hillary or Bernie. One voted for that Marijuana Party guy–Johnson was it?

    The alpha females I know started their careers grateful for a chance to prove themselves…then about mid-career ended up staggered to see how many organizations are run by betas. Including beta females who love destroying alpha females.

    Many lateraled into later-in-life traditional family formation.

    Some run businesses as a sideline. A few had a number of lovers but not one prided herself on being a “slut” or riding the carousel.

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  134. AM says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Add to that the critic Cyril Connolly's "There is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall".

    But against the advantage that "priests without families are 100% loyal to the church and their duties" (yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men) you have to set the disadvantages, chief of which is that priestly celibacy, in societies where priests are high-status (and therefore likely to be chosen from the intelligent and charismatic) is highly dysgenic. To see that you only have to look at the number of major figures who are or were sons or daughters of the Protestant clergy - from Jane Austen and Lord Nelson to Alice Cooper and Nina Simone - not to mention two out of the last three UK prime ministers and the current German Chancellor (you can't win them all).

    Priests are men like any other, and in today's society would have to be saints not to be influenced at all by the culture around them, where sexual imagery is difficult to avoid unless you never open a newspaper, turn on a television or radio (BBC Radio 4, the serious 'broadsheet' broadcaster, is currently celebrating with much graphic reminiscence the decriminalisation 50 years ago of homosexual acts between consenting adults), or use the internet. Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.

    Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.

    This is a six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other argument. It’s just a way of doing business with it’s own advantages and disadvantages.

    How many married male preachers have had affairs, or like Martin Luther King Jr, had a sexual appetite so large you wondered how he had time to be involved in the Civil Right Movement? Okay, they’re not homosexuals but they aren’t exactly in control on the sexual front.

    Either you’re controlling your pants or your pants are controlling you, and marriage or not, it doesn’t matter.

    It turns out Catholics could lift the prohibition on married Priests at any time and revert to the Eastern tradition without any disruption at all in our thinking about it. Anglican Priests with wives/families who convert to Catholicism are most welcome under a set of conditions if the husband and wife agree.

    It really isn’t a weird problem about sex. It’s preferring the advantages of single men. Married clergy are also running thin in Protestant denominations and have their own set of sexual issues, so it’s not clear that opening up to the Eastern tradition would help much that way.

    Catholics were doing okay when we just point blank rejected and/or threw out all homosexuals when discovered. Like other denominations who become so “tolerant” as to start to lose the plot, we’ve got new, modern problems. I’m not sure they’re any worse or different than having lesbians in dog collars pretend to be Priests.

    yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men)

    Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher. I’ve talked extensively to one young Lutheran man online. The frustration of having the church’s needs (low pay, odd/extensive hours, emotional exhaustion) be placed on his Dad created some ambivalence in an otherwise good sounding relationship. It can be done, but it’s not easy. He clearly saw the advantages of the Catholic tradition/thinking on the point.

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher."

    I'm sure it's difficult. I've known a few vicar's offspring and they can fall close to the tree (Gordon Brown, Theresa May) or very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead, and a girl I know who got around a bit - in fact a lot - in her youth).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fYhF3YkmaM
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  135. @Ali Choudhury
    70% of British Pakistanis are from Mirpur, they originate from Kashmir and speak Mirpuri not Punjabi. They don't count as Punjabi. The Punjabis are doing OK, particularly the ones who were from middle class families before they emigrated. The former Karachi dwellers tend to do best, they are usually from well-educated families.

    You call following a cultural habit of the Semitic Arabs regarding marriages of first cousins, doing ok? No wonder the Indians abhor you…

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  136. @Chris Mallory
    You do realize that first cousin marriage is illegal in Kentucky, West Virginia, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi and legal in New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Rhode Island?

    Dang inbred Yankees.

    That’s because in civilized states they never thought to make it illegal because it was never a problem.

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  137. @AM

    Forbidding them the love of women seems in this age to attract some candidates whose sincere lack of interest in women is for the wrong reasons.
     
    This is a six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other argument. It's just a way of doing business with it's own advantages and disadvantages.

    How many married male preachers have had affairs, or like Martin Luther King Jr, had a sexual appetite so large you wondered how he had time to be involved in the Civil Right Movement? Okay, they're not homosexuals but they aren't exactly in control on the sexual front.

    Either you're controlling your pants or your pants are controlling you, and marriage or not, it doesn't matter.

    It turns out Catholics could lift the prohibition on married Priests at any time and revert to the Eastern tradition without any disruption at all in our thinking about it. Anglican Priests with wives/families who convert to Catholicism are most welcome under a set of conditions if the husband and wife agree.

    It really isn't a weird problem about sex. It's preferring the advantages of single men. Married clergy are also running thin in Protestant denominations and have their own set of sexual issues, so it's not clear that opening up to the Eastern tradition would help much that way.

    Catholics were doing okay when we just point blank rejected and/or threw out all homosexuals when discovered. Like other denominations who become so "tolerant" as to start to lose the plot, we've got new, modern problems. I'm not sure they're any worse or different than having lesbians in dog collars pretend to be Priests.


    yet rabbis seem to be able to care for a flock and be family men)
     
    Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher. I've talked extensively to one young Lutheran man online. The frustration of having the church's needs (low pay, odd/extensive hours, emotional exhaustion) be placed on his Dad created some ambivalence in an otherwise good sounding relationship. It can be done, but it's not easy. He clearly saw the advantages of the Catholic tradition/thinking on the point.

    “Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher.”

    I’m sure it’s difficult. I’ve known a few vicar’s offspring and they can fall close to the tree (Gordon Brown, Theresa May) or very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead, and a girl I know who got around a bit – in fact a lot – in her youth).

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    very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead
     
    Would that more vicars were as widely loved as Lemmy.

    He was doing something right.
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  138. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Ask their kids how they felt about Dad being a rabbi or Preacher."

    I'm sure it's difficult. I've known a few vicar's offspring and they can fall close to the tree (Gordon Brown, Theresa May) or very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead, and a girl I know who got around a bit - in fact a lot - in her youth).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fYhF3YkmaM

    very far away (Lemmy of Motorhead

    Would that more vicars were as widely loved as Lemmy.

    He was doing something right.

    Read More
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  139. jtgw says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    Wikipedia hints that the ecclesiastical prohibition on cousin marriage was inherited from Roman law,
     
    And, as we all know, Wikipedia is unbiased and accurate in everything.

    Do you have a better explanation with better documentation? The explanation seems to make sense to me: there is nothing Biblical about prohibiting cousin marriage, so the only other plausible source is something in the pagan Greco-Roman culture of the time.

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  140. jtgw says:
    @Art Deco
    , but the ban on first-cousin marriage seems to pre-date the institutionalization of the Church.

    There is no Christian moral teaching which antedates the 'institutionalization of the Church' bar those from the mouth of Christ.

    We’re talking history here, not theology or apologetics. Where did Christians get the idea that cousin marriage was bad? There is no hint of such a prohibition in Scripture, which is full of stories of close consanguineous marriages. The most plausible source seems to be Roman law, based on Roman upper class marriage norms.

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