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I posted in the New York Times in response to Gary Gutting’s oped defending affirmative action as justified by the historical burdens of slavery my old suggestion that this logic implies that affirmative action should be preserved for American Indians and descendants of American slaves (e.g., Michelle Obama), but not for immigrants just off the plane from Buenos Aires or Barack Obama. Some of the replies are interesting:

R
Rocky
Saint LouisDec. 11
@Steve Sailer How about East/South Asians? They might not have a history of discrimination in this country but yet they are denied their dreams of elite universities because the quota has been met for their race/ethnicity. I’m not saying I’m against Affirmative Action but there has to be a better way to ensure equality.

PvL
ClevelandDec. 11
@A.G. Alias The reason your proposal won’t resolve our country’s issues with race is because even a recent immigrant from Buenos Aires, Argentina, or Accra, Ghana, will almost immediately feel the weight of our society’s institutionalized, systemic racism, simply because of the color of their skin and/or their accent, etc.

njheathen
Ewing, NJDec. 11
@Steve Sailer

If you or I had met Barack Obama on the street before he became well known, we would not have known his ancestry. This is why the residue effect of slavery affects African Americans who are not descended directly from slaves in exactly the same way as those who are.

John T.
Grand Rapids, MichiganDec. 11
@Steve Sailer

I think you should ask Barack Obama if he ever found that he was treated as if he descended from American slaves. The unfortunate fact is that people are judged in this country by the color of the skin, not by their actual lineage, let alone the content of their character.

Nicholas Hogan
Clifton Springs, NY11h ago
@Steve Sailer, I think that your compromise would be sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires, or a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country when they apply for loans, put their names on applications for jobs, run for high office ( or engage in any of the other activities that all people need to do) without discernible racist responses. The images of lynching of Obama mannequins, the hatred spewed across the internet, and the psychological research on unconscious bias regarding skin tone all vitiate against your suggestion.When recent immigrants are not categorized negatively by the sound of their names, the color of their skin, or the accent they have, then we can revisit your suggestion.

I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Obama as proof of the huge burdens inevitably suffered by a black man in America.

 
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  1. anon[426] • Disclaimer says:

    So they are saying that Obama was an AA president?

    Without AA, he wouldn’t have been president. Sounds about right.

  2. Barnard says:

    It isn’t surprising. If you asked these cult members if the son of a white coal miner in West Virginia has white privilege and advantages in life over Obama’s daughters they would all say yes and scoff at you for even asking.

    • Agree: Autochthon, ic1000
    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @TWS
  3. Ibound1 says:

    We need two countries. It’s really too bad we can’t have that. But I don’t want to live in a country where my fellow “countrymen” want to give legal and commercialadvantages to immigrants over me, give advantages to immigrant children over my children. Exactly what is a nation and a people? It can’t be this.

  4. anon[426] • Disclaimer says:

    brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires

    I’ve been in BA, and didn’t encounter any brown skinned students. I guess that was the point. A white European with Latin American lineage defaults to AA status.

  5. 22pp22 says:

    There is another conclusion to draw from their arguments. If races cannot live together, maybe they shouldn’t. No matter how many generations have passed since slavery and no matter the fact that America has had a two-term black president, oppression by whites is a given.

  6. 22pp22 says:

    There is another conclusion to draw from their arguments. If races cannot live together, maybe they shouldn’t. No matter how many generations have passed since slavery and no matter the fact that America has had a two-term black president, oppression by whites is a given. Blacks can only avoid white oppression by avoiding whites.

    • Agree: TTSSYF, Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Dr. X
    , @Mr. Rational
  7. I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Obama as proof of the huge burdens suffered by a black man in America.

    It’s proof of his almost super-human attributes that he was able to overcome these obstacles.

    The images of lynching of Obama mannequins, the hatred spewed across the internet,

    I mean, compare this to what Donald Trump has to deal with!

  8. I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Øb☭ma as proof of the huge burdens suffered by a black man in America.

    Barack Øb☭ma is one of the huge burdens suffered by white people in America.

    Nicholas Hogan
    Clifton Springs, NY11h ago: blah, blah, stupidity, …blah, blah, blah …

    Now do you still think your logic will work with people who read the NY Times?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  9. Lagertha says:

    I knew from the very instance that Obama (seemed like a nice guy 😉 ) was a plant, during the election/run for primaries in 2o07. I know that bc I know immigration and yet, I do not know the politics surrounding immigration….the game of RISK with immigration coupled with terrorism, an degeneracy (England).

  10. If you or I had met Barack Obama on the street before he became well known, we would not have known his ancestry.

    Or his orientation.

  11. He had a hard go of it. That’s what made him wise.

  12. syonredux says:

    @Steve Sailer, I think that your compromise would be sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires, or a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country when they apply for loans, put their names on applications for jobs, run for high office ( or engage in any of the other activities that all people need to do) without discernible racist responses.

    Buenos Aires?

  13. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    I think that your compromise would be sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires, or a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country

    I was in Buenos Aires a dozen years ago, and don’t recall many brown-skinned people there. Most looked vaguely Southern European, though the flight attendants looked like Northern European models (I guess their airlines had dated ways of selecting them).

    More generally though – the ludicrous example of Barack Obama aside – let’s say there is some minor disadvantage to being dark skinned, all else equal (assuming you’re smart, personable etc.). There are larger disadvantages to being fat, being old, and being unattractive. Should government give affirmative action points to them too? I’d say no. The best way to help them, along with everyone else to tighten the labor market.

    The simplest way to keep a dark skinned person from Accra from getting discriminated against in the U.S. is by not letting him into the U.S. Why subject him to our racist society?

  14. syonredux says:

    @A.G. Alias The reason your proposal won’t resolve our country’s issues with race is because even a recent immigrant from Buenos Aires, Argentina, or Accra, Ghana, will almost immediately feel the weight of our society’s institutionalized, systemic racism, simply because of the color of their skin and/or their accent, etc.

    Still mystified by the references to Argentina….


    But,leaving that to one side, isn’t this an argument against immigration? You know, since these poor people will ” immediately feel the weight of our society’s institutionalized, systemic racism?”

  15. syonredux says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    I think that your compromise would be sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires, or a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country

    I was in Buenos Aires a dozen years ago, and don’t recall many brown-skinned people there. Most looked vaguely Southern European, though the flight attendants looked like Northern European models (I guess their airlines had dated ways of selecting them).

    I’m with you on this one. Maybe it’s some kind of elaborate troll?Reductio ad absurdum? If Argentines qualify for affirmative action, who doesn’t?Danes?

  16. Thomm says:
    @syonredux

    sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires,

    Heh. Argentina is whiter than the US, and whiter than Canada. It is a country that is about 95% white (Spanish, Italian, German).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Jack D
    , @Evocatus
  17. I think that your compromise would be sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires, or a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country when they apply for loans, put their names on applications for jobs, run for high office…

    …go to the police station for a handgun purchase permit…

    ( or engage in any of the other activities that all people need to do)

    … in a county of the state farther east and south than rural Ontario…

    without discernible racist responses.

    Nicholas Hogan
    Clifton Springs, NY

    Just living in Clifton Springs is by itself a “racist response”.

    The racial makeup of the village was 97.57% White, 1.21% African American, 0.13% Native American, 0.18% Asian, 0.22% from other races, and 0.67% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.81% of the population.
    –US Census Bureau, via Wikipedia

    Trump carried Ontario County 49.8% to 42.5%. I’d bet Mr Hogan commutes to some cushy job in Rochester, then high-tails it back home before nightfall.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  18. songbird says:

    It is funny but also kind of eerie. I think Steve struck a chord with these people by using Barack’s name. Not that he won them over, but he used their language, so they thought they could win him over.

    What makes it eerie is that is the language of power. Because Barack achieved power, he is a moral paragon to these people. Meanwhile, Trump is the Devil incarnate for the same reason.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  19. newrouter says:

    If this nation is so horrible, why do you low IQ folks want live here?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  20. newrouter says:

    Just say NO to Chinese Communists!

  21. “I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Obama as proof of the huge burdens suffered by a black man in America.”

    Laughing. They don’t know any other people referring to themselves as black.

    Pool waders.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  22. @Reg Cæsar

    Mr Hogan’s county is amazingly consistent in presidential elections. Except for Johnson’s 1964 debacle, Obama was the first Democrat to crack 45% since 1884. Clinton was the only other Democrat to carry the county, in 1996 with a plurality. (Perot seems to have done well there.) Anyone with a pulse did well against FDR. Appleknockers know their kind well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_County,_New_York#Government_and_politics

  23. @syonredux

    We must give refuge to the Aireans before they get shoah’d.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  24. Anon[246] • Disclaimer says:

    If mere skin color is sufficient justification to benefit from affirmative action, then it would seem to be unending for blacks … or perhaps not. More and more, being white is enough to expose you to the business end of discrimination, on campuses, in large corporations, and in Starbucks. So I could foresee a pole shift at some point where affirmative action transfers from blacks to whites. 🙂

    • Replies: @Lowe
  25. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Obama as proof of the huge burdens suffered by a black man in America.

    Well yeah. I went to Occidental, and Columbia, and Harvard. Some of the most privileged places in the country.

    However, I think the notion is he wouldn’t have ever had those opportunities–and thus been able to realize his full potential as presidential timbre–if it weren’t for affirmative action.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  26. istevefan says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The simplest way to keep a dark skinned person from Accra from getting discriminated against in the U.S. is by not letting him into the U.S. Why subject him to our racist society?

    The only thing more racist than the USA is keeping nonwhites out of the USA.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  27. Daniel H says:
    @syonredux

    >>I’m with you on this one. Maybe it’s some kind of elaborate troll?Reductio ad absurdum? If Argentines qualify for affirmative action, who doesn’t?Danes?

    No, it’s not a troll. Steve identifies the massive flaw in affirmative action as practiced in America today. Conquistador Americans, who have zero native American or African blood qualify for full affirmative action consideration based on the national origin of their surname. Ridiculous. Likewise, Brahmin Americans who have been the beneficiaries of the longest lasting system of racial oppression in the history of the world, the minute they set foot in America, are presumed to be put-upon, oppressed racial minorities, qualifying for affirmative action, with the presumption put upon state and private actors to prove that they themselves are not the racists. Ridiculous. And as far as east Asians go, if you are so foolish to give away the store to them they will take all, without a sense of the slightest gratitude.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    , @Travis
  28. Anon[246] • Disclaimer says:

    The New York Times comments section is a pain in the ass to navigate. It’s hard to scroll, and if you lose your place it’s back to the beginning.

  29. black sea says:

    I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Obama as proof of the huge burdens suffered by a black man in America.

    I guess one of the pillars of the Obama narrative is that he overcame tremendous hostility from the racist hordes to ascend to the White House. For a lot of people, this is probably such a deeply ingrained element of his life story that they’ve never stopped to wonder if it might not be true.

    For such people, America always has been unmitigated in its hatred of blacks, browns, yellows, gays, trans, bi’s, Jews, Muslims, women — or at least, women who speak their minds — Native Americans, Latin Americans, and blah, blah, blah. When they say “America” in this context, what they mean is “White America,” and White America, is, as Hillary Clinton once phrased it, largely irredeemable. Its pernicious effects on the body politic can only be mitigated by demographic diminution. Once reduced to a bitter remnant, White America will be no better than it ever was, and probably worse, but it will no longer be able to obstruct America’s higher aspirations.

    To Obama’s somewhat limited credit, I don’t think he particularly presented himself as a victim of “systemic racism.” I suspect this reluctance came less from an impulse toward honesty than from a lesson learned in Chicago politics, which is that casting himself in such terms would invite all sorts of commentary about how Obama’s personal history so dramatically diverged from that of the “average African American,” whoever that person might be.

    Nevertheless, his African ancestry — and little else about him — qualifies him for the role of both victim and transcendent victor vis-a-vis America’s racist soul. What’s particularly ironic is that most if not all of the commenters you quoted from your post at the New York Times are themselves White, but none of them sees himself as White in the terms understood by their social and political class.

    They don’t see themselves as hostile to the above mentioned victim groups, and therefore, they don’t believe they qualify for the condemnation of God or History or the Third World or Whoever/Whatever they think judges such matters. Of course, they are White, like it or not, and in the America they are helping to bring about, will be classified as such.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri, Lowe, densa
    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    , @ThreeCranes
  30. @syonredux

    Like most idiots, and, honestly, most Americans generally, this commenter in Carlos Slim’s blog does not understand that South America – especially the Southern Cone! – is absolutely teeming with white people.

    It’s mostly interrelated to the stupid concept of “Hispanic” as some kind of ethnicity-cum-(quasi)race propagated and fomented by race hucksters and predicated upon (inter alia) precisely the scam of so-called “affirmative action.”

    Since “Hispanic” in their minds is a synonym for indio, mestizo, zambo , etc., and since Argentines are “Hispanic” – voila!, Argentines must be brown…that most Argentines are in fact white – even the mestizos are some eighty-six per cent genetically European – is a trivial detail to their reasoning. Silly facts.

  31. Anon[246] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m Black. I’ve been a senior partner at one of the world’s largest law firms, the head of a federal regulatory agency and an officer at a Fortune 5 corporation.

    This is impressive, for a black guy to make partner at a real law firm; I follow the careers of black graduates of elite law schools, and few are in the law in any meaningful way five years out. However, this guy then went to a government job, and then some sort of corporate officer job? This smells like, although he is smart (for a black guy, I hate to say it), he somehow washed out of the law firm, despite being a partner.

    Maybe they needed diversity, maybe they thought he’d be a rainmaker, but the clients didn’t come, and the partner meetings took on a weird vibe, and the siren call of government work (with a lowish salary anyone can look up online) called.

    And, like the children of all of my upper middle class Black friends, my daughter was able to attend an excellent university, notwithstanding slightly inferior grades and SAT scores.

    Oh, why is that?

    We wonder whether our kids underachieve because they know that they can gain admission with lesser scores. We watch them under-perform at pricey private schools, we try to force them to focus, they don’t.

    Lack of focus. But, hey, who cares, because…

    Our kids attend the very best schools and go on to live great lives

    Affirmative action all the way to the grave for these inferior, under-achieving black kids, reverting to the mean all the way. Why focus when you can barbecue, anywhere you damn well want?

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  32. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I always thought the running count of the dead, like the federal debt clock, was a hilarious touch in that scene.

    What a great movie, and Clancy Brown is excellent in it as he always is. I think it confused a lot of critics because it was both a straight war movie and a parody of one at the same time.

  33. Anonym says:
    @SporadicMyrmidon

    Doesn’t that kind of make you feel a bit icky, Steve? The NYT endorsing your views?

    • LOL: Mr McKenna
  34. istevefan says:
    @syonredux

    If Argentines qualify for affirmative action, who doesn’t?Danes?

    What I find strange about Americans in general and American leftists in particular is their thorough lack of understanding about the people of Latin America. For a nation obsessed with race, Americans seem to short-circuit on the topic of race and Latin America. Maybe it is because the overwhelming majority of Latino migrants are at best mixed. Maybe it is the Spanish accent, though other European language accents don’t seem to cause as much confusion.

    For whatever reason Americans get confused by both black and white Latin Americans. For example, a few years ago some sports writers were lamenting on the alarming shortage of African American players in major league baseball. Though technically African Latin Americans are not African Americans in the sense of being born in the USA, they are African Americans in the sense that they are from the Americas, of African descent and share a similar history of their ancestors having been taken from the same places in Western Africa and enslaved in the New World.

    Thus, Sammy Sosa and the myriad of other black Cubans, Dominicans and Venezuelans who make up a significant portion of baseball are not counted as black, and we are told we have to do more to get African Americans in the sport. Keep in mind Sammy Sosa could have been DeShawn Smith if he had been born in Illinois instead of the Dominican Republic. But Americans think he is Latino or Spanish and can’t understand he is part of the same African slave diaspora that American blacks are a part of.

    Americans get confused about white latinos too. Think about Marco Scuttero the former baseball player. His mother and father immigrated to Venezuela from Italy. However, since he was born in Venezuela, he is a “latino” who must navigate a discriminatory environment. This guy could have just as easily been born in Staten Island and would be just another white guy.

    Then there is Don Francisco. This guy was born in Chile. But mom and dad were both German Jews who left to escape the Nazis. Had he be born in New York City, he’d be another Jackie Mason. But Americans can’t see this.

    For people who study a multitude of studies curricula, leftist Americans can’t seem to understand much. So much for the notion of these enlightened scholars who are so superior to their insular countrymen.

    • Agree: Daniel H
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  35. @songbird

    Because Barack achieved power, he is a moral paragon to these people.

    Joe Biden explained it best:

    I mean, you got the first sorta mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, it’s—that’s a storybook, man.

    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
  36. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    They probably have in mind someone like Maradona, the most famous Argie ever:

  37. L Woods says:

    Please tell me more about how these people can be reasoned with.

  38. kihowi says:

    What would we do without the reasonable centrism of Steve Sailer? When those kooky extremists yell “death to whitey”, he’s here to pull the discussion back to sanity with “no, only death to whitey some of the time!”

  39. @Barnard

    Yep. It’s all about skin color to these people. A not-unrelated fact is the obsessive race consciousness of those of the Hebrew persuasion, who will also tell you that the obsessive race consciousness of those of the Nazi persuasion is the very worst thing in all of human history.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  40. @Thomm

    Argentina is also one of the world’s most Jewish countries:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country

    One of only six with more than 4%, or even 2%. Way ahead of Germany, Poland, Russia, and their neighbors. And that’s after significant emigration in recent decades. In Peron’s day, they were around 5%, more Jewish than the US.

  41. @SporadicMyrmidon

    Ya gotta love the other readers’ logic, though. As soon as someone arrives here in the USA, they’re immediately affected by the Racism. Therefore, we need to move as many of the world’s people as possible here as soon as possible, so that they can be affected by the Racism and then treated to all the ‘Compensations’ we have available.

    If they stayed in their own countries, they wouldn’t be affected by the Racism, and then they wouldn’t be able to enjoy the ‘Compensations’. We’re denying them what’s rightfully theirs if we let them stay in their own countries. How could we possibly justify that?

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  42. Ooh, “vitiate.”

    These make me cringe.

  43. @Dave Pinsen

    There are larger disadvantages to being fat, being old, and being unattractive. Should government give affirmative action points to them too?

    Been wondering for years when someone was going to make this point.
    There’s Pokemon Points and then there’s Pokemon Points.

    We’ll probably get around to compensating for those things as well,
    so long as you’re not white. White Trumps Everything.

  44. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Did Biden get kicked in the head when he played for the U. of Delaware?

  45. @Dave Pinsen

    Check out Stephen Hunter in the Washington Post on that one. He was absolutely convinced the entire thing was Nazi Propaganda, and went to great lengths to describe how the bugs are obviously stand-ins for chosen ppl. Such weird stuff the MSM comes up with. “It’s spiritually Nazi, psychologically Nazi. It comes directly out of the Nazi imagination, and is set in the Nazi universe.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1997/11/11/goosestepping-at-the-movies/83272787-18ae-4126-b8c4-3d46b1b31277/

  46. @Anonym

    Doesn’t that kind of make you feel a bit icky, Steve? The NYT endorsing your views?

    Nah. “Times pick” is kind of like a plectrum, for those who want to peek inside without getting their hands inky. Also, fondling the Grey Lady might be grounds for sexual harassment litigation.

  47. @syonredux

    It was clever of Mr. Sailer to use Buenos Aires as an example.

    Google’s top result for “Argentine people” comes up with this image.

    There appears to be a very small number of blacks in Argentina. Apparently, there used to be many more and it remains a mystery to Argentinians why there are almost none today.

    To quote from the link below

    When songstress Josephine Baker visited Argentina in the 1950s she asked the biracial minister of public health Ramon Carilio, “Where are the Negroes?” to which Carilio responded, laughing, “There are only two – you and I.”

    Scholars have long pondered the “disappearance” of people of African descent from Argentina, long considered South America’s “whitest” nation.

    A 1973 article in Ebony asked, “what happened to Argentina’s involuntary immigrants, those African slaves and their mulatto descendants who once outnumbered whites five to one, and who were for 250 years ‘an important element’ in the total population, which is now 97 percent white?”

    One history book calls the country’s lack of self-identifying black people “one of the most intriguing riddles in Argentine history,” while another notes that “the disappearance of the Negro from the Argentine scene has puzzled demographers far more than the vanishing Indian.”

    https://kwekudee-tripdownmemorylane.blogspot.com/2012/10/african-descendants-in-argentina-afro.html

  48. @Reg Cæsar

    Argentina is also one of the world’s most Jewish countries:

    After WWII, Eichmann and a bunch of Nazis fugitives ended up fleeing to Argentina and settling there. The population mix must have reminded them of the old days back home, before the war.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  49. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    They probably have in mind someone like Maradona, the most famous Argie ever:

    Probably my bias at work, but when I think of Argentines, I think of Pope Francis, Jorge Luis Borges, Evita Peron …..

  50. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:

    At no point in Barry Soetero’s life has h been confused as the descendant of slaves. As Mr. Sailer has pointed out time and time again, he was known for that exotic, foreign student quality. Fifteen year old Barry, much less 35 year old Barack, would not give up that status symbol as internationalist outsider for anything in the world.

    In general, people who go about their day with the most racialist bent imaginable can tell the difference between a foreign African man and our black population 99% of the time. A number of them would also make mention that they prefer the African immigrant, non-Somalian edition, in many cases.

    The only conceivable time there would be a confusion is outsiders traveling- where everyone is out of their comfort zone and all sorts of mistakes can be made- and in classrooms, with other-directed, left-fanatic teachers and administrators who, besides being dopey, are the types to play status games with their discrimination.

    So who are these mythical oppressors ruining the daily lives of strangers?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
  51. @Mr McKenna

    Hunter:

    A more insidious possibility relates exactly to Hitler’s crazed state: that the size and range of the gene pool has been greatly reduced through some form of purification. So in an unsettling sense, “Starship Troopers” appears to be set in a post-Holocaust world, a world where the body count didn’t stop at 6 million but went on and on and on until only Aryan stock remained.

    Counterpoint:

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @syonredux
  52. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Verhoeven grew up on old Nazi movies and they have a lot of influence on him, which he plays off as satire.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  53. syonredux says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Hunter:

    A more insidious possibility relates exactly to Hitler’s crazed state: that the size and range of the gene pool has been greatly reduced through some form of purification. So in an unsettling sense, “Starship Troopers” appears to be set in a post-Holocaust world, a world where the body count didn’t stop at 6 million but went on and on and on until only Aryan stock remained.

    Yeah, “Aryan stock”….I guess that Sky Marshall Tehat Meru was some kind of honorary aryan….

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  54. Cortes says:

    Obama is used because he’s basically a “porch negro”: familiar, unthreatening and house-trained. Sorta cuddly. I mean, try “Al Sharpton” or “Don King”…

    Using Obama reminds me of the old practice in UK media of employing “the size of Wales” as a convenient area to convey the enormity of various catastrophic events: annual loss of Amazon rainforest by logging; wildfire devastation of the US West; diminution of the Greenland icecap, etc.

  55. @syonredux

    Verhoeven put a lot of deadpan humor on screen. 🙂

    • Replies: @Lowe
  56. unit472 says:

    Ask an older Jew if they experienced anti-semitism and they will likely say yes. Leftists will say a Jew can conceal his ancestry which is true ( for some) in a casual encounter but difficult overtime. Despite this America’s six million Jews have done extraordinarily well for themselves despite the antipathy or worse of a lot of other Americans to include blacks and hispanics.

    Growing up in San Francisco every corner grocery was operated by a Chinese family. Today practically none are. It wasn’t because Chinese got affirmative action that they could move up from running a tiny market. There was no AA for Chinese then ( or now).

    The ‘racism’ negroes complain of is not rooted in the antebellum South. Civil Rights legislation was passed by an almost entirely white Congress and corporate America and the Federal government had never been hostile to the negro. Some unions maybe but not the real power centers in America. Red hot racists of the “Pitchfork” Ben Tillman breed were antiques in postwar America. No modern anti black attitudes are based on negro behavior in the post Civil Rights era.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  57. @Anonymous

    Or, as some allege, CIA connections.

  58. @Dave Pinsen

    But it wasn’t Heinlein’s novel, which made it annoying enough to reduce the enjoyment.

    • Replies: @Lowe
    , @anon
  59. Cortes says:
    @PiltdownMan

    1500 “negros criollos” (locally-born blacks) in San Martín’s army, according to this

    https://www.clarin.com/capital_federal/Falucho_0_BJIXgLDaPmx.html

    article about the Falucho statue in Palermo, Buenos Aires.

    For those thinking of a visit to the city, I’d recommend timing a view of the interior of the cathedral to coincide with the change of guard at the tomb of San Martín. Great theatre.

  60. AndrewR says:

    Why do so many people assume most/all Argentinians are “brown”? I thought the NYT was supposed to have a worldly readership. (Lol)

  61. Tiny Duck says:

    As long as whites exist there will be racism.

    You need to listen to Sabah Tahir and Adam Conover as well as Nikole Hannah Jones

    People of Color and the young are against you

    You cannot Winn

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
  62. @Reg Cæsar

    Pretty easy to figure that out in short order,I’d say.

  63. @istevefan

    What I find strange about Americans in general and American leftists in particular is their thorough lack of understanding about the people of Latin America

    To Leftists, being brown (and therefore oppressed by whites) is the only dimension that defines these people. Any further details concerning the actual class, race or religious politics of these countries is merely confusing and inconvenient.

    If everyone in the story is already a virtuous “person of color” who can be the bad guys? The Narrative won’t fit. And that’s the only tool in the Leftist’s mental tool kit.

  64. Clyde says:

    https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath _____ Titiana is back on twitter!

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  65. @Reg Cæsar

    “If you or I had met Barack Obama on the street before he became well known, we would not have known his ancestry.”

    We wouldn’t have met him on the street because, being the racists we evidently are, we would have crossed the street to avoid him.

  66. Unzerker says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    One of only six with more than 4%

    It’s 4 per thousand…so only 0.4%

  67. “But,leaving that to one side, isn’t this an argument against immigration? You know, since these poor people will ‘immediately feel the weight of our society’s institutionalized, systemic racism?’”

    All of these “racisms” — “systemic, environmental, economic, covert, overt, legacy, etc. … ” they keep multiplying endlessly. Dealing with “racism” these days is like playing a never-ending game of “whack-a-mole”. You beat down one, and another pops up next to it.

  68. Ed says:

    SJWism has become a religion to many.

  69. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Mr McKenna

    Interesting, but it seems somewhat of a stretch to me. Sure, there is some Nazi visual aesthetic – Neil Patrick Harris absolutely looks like an SS colonel toward the end – but beyond that?

    Verhoeven was ahead of the curve with his infantrywomen, but that would have been anathema to Hitler. The bugs aren’t “sub-human” – they aren’t human at all. And unlike the Nazis who faked a pretext for their invasion of Poland, the bugs have legitimately attacked earth, to devastating effect. That’s part of what makes it work as a straight war movie.

    There are also a lot of American influences in it, both to WWII news reels, and to war movies since. Verhoeven just turns everything up to eleven. Take his version of the classic scene where a young tough challenges the drill instructor. In An Officer And A Gentleman, Lou Gossett, Jr. kicks Richard Gere in the groin; in Starship Troopers, Clancy Brown does this.

  70. @Tiny Duck

    “People of Color and the young are against you. “You cannot Winn” [sic]

    And when they “win,” the entire planet will look like Detroit or Zimbabwe. I can hardly wait.

  71. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @PiltdownMan

    Those girls are wearing soccer jerseys, for the Boca Juniors club, I think. People who can afford top league tickets in Latin America tend to be richer and whiter than the broader population.

  72. Knowing how openly racist many Argentineans are, I doubt they appreciate being held up as examples of victims of colour basis, still less with the suggestion that their pigmentation resembles Obama’s.

  73. @Dave Pinsen

    At the risk of over generalizing, Boca are the working class club of BA, River that of the cosmopolitan middle classes. Downtown and Uptown. Maradona, the ultimate street urchin footballer, would never have played for River.

  74. At what point do the generations of mostly lower and middle class whites who have been denied opportunities due to AA get their recognition? It seems the only people who support AA are virtue signalers, beneficiaries, and people who have been little affected by it–which is apparently a large portion of the nation. The whites who support AA are the confusing ones, because they are the most affected by loss of opportunity and lowered standard of life and services.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
  75. Richard S says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Looking at the girl on the left, I’m reminded that a substantial part of the Irish diaspora lives in the Argentine:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Argentine

    Presumably in the 19th century they imagined they’d feel more at home among Latin Catholics than those snooty WASPs in North America..

    Che’s family name was actually Guevara-Lynch

    • Replies: @Jack D
  76. TTSSYF says:
    @black sea

    Yes, agreed. Already, our history of 50 years ago and earlier seems alien, with no connection to our current population. We’ve already been replaced. A bitter remnant, indeed.

  77. @Anonym

    Doesn’t that kind of make you feel a bit icky, Steve? The NYT endorsing your views?

    The NY Time’s endorsing of your view should clue you in that maybe your view is unsound. Think: DIMS, Does It Make Sense?

    The NY Times is being consistently wrong here, as always. Steve Sailer is being unusually wrong in supporting discrimination against white men.

    • Replies: @Anonym
  78. ic1000 says:

    By definition, the six NYT commenters who replied to Steve’s comment were on the JV team (or maybe the C squad). None of them Got The Joke of framing Affirmative Action as a remedy for the sufferings of white-Hispanic Buenos Airians and the exotic Half Blood Prince.

    The A Team knows that there are only two winning responses to Sailer’s argument: crying racist or deplatforming.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  79. tyrone says:
    @Anonymous

    That iron cross says “I’m a panzer watch out”

  80. I’m not sure what’s so “interesting” or “fascinating” about leftist imperviousness to facts and logic. There’s no point in reasoning with them. They’re immune. The only fixed point in their universe is whitey must suffer.

    Unless that is the point you’re making.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  81. @Steve Sailer

    Did he? He was only six when the Netherlands were liberated.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  82. ex-banker says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Those are national team jerseys — likely an even tougher ticket.

  83. Poor Barry. If he hadn’t been half black, there’s no telling how far he would have gone.

    • LOL: Fred Boynton
  84. Rocky
    Saint LouisDec. 11
    @Steve Sailer How about East/South Asians? They might not have a history of discrimination in this country but yet they are denied their dreams of elite universities because the quota has been met for their race/ethnicity. I’m not saying I’m against Affirmative Action but there has to be a better way to ensure equality.

    Rocky is as dumb as a rock. A third party “ensuring equality” is the quickest way to eliminate it. “Ensuring” equality makes it a zero sum game. For you to be more equal someone needs to be less equal. His own example is proof. Asians are “denied their dreams” so someone less qualified/meritorious can be bumped ahead in line to “ensure” their equality.

    Or does Rocky suggest all who apply are to be admitted. Sure, that will work.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  85. Podgemex says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    National team jerseys. Boca are a working class team with a working class support. It would be a surprise to the fans that go to Boca games that they are richer and whiter than the rest of argentine society.

  86. OT:
    Apparently a new grammatical pattern has emerged in American speech:
    “We want to get Americans to do X (e.g, get out of their cars, turn in their guns) and solve racism.”
    A pioneer of the new lingo can be learned about in this report from Oakland:
    https://arstechnica.com/?p=1426431
    I propose introducing a new abbreviation for “and solve racism”: ASR. Ideally it could serve as the closing syntactical bracket in sentences like
    “IIUC, ‘and solve racism’ is used by any well-intentioned person to indicate that they are willing to make the world a better place ASR.”

  87. Hibernian says:
    @syonredux

    Don’t cry for me, Argentina.

  88. PvL
    ClevelandDec. 11
    @A.G. Alias The reason your proposal won’t resolve our country’s issues with race is because even a recent immigrant from Buenos Aires, Argentina, or Accra, Ghana, will almost immediately feel the weight of our society’s institutionalized, systemic racism, simply because of the color of their skin and/or their accent, etc.

    The immigrant chose to come here.

  89. Nicholas Hogan
    Clifton Springs, NY11h ago
    @Steve Sailer, I think that your compromise would be sensible if we could see that the brown-skinned student off a plane from Buenos Aires, or a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country when they apply for loans, put their names on applications for jobs, run for high office ( or engage in any of the other activities that all people need to do) without discernible racist responses. The images of lynching of Obama mannequins, the hatred spewed across the internet, and the psychological research on unconscious bias regarding skin tone all vitiate against your suggestion.When recent immigrants are not categorized negatively by the sound of their names, the color of their skin, or the accent they have, then we can revisit your suggestion.

    The immigrants chose to be “categorized negatively”. They chose all the good and bad that his country has to offer. The people hurt by their presence — and by affirmative action in general — do not get a choice.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  90. @Dave Pinsen

    I was in Buenos Aires a dozen years ago, and don’t recall many brown-skinned people there. Most looked vaguely Southern European, though the flight attendants looked like Northern European models (I guess their airlines had dated ways of selecting them).

    This is yet another, in a seemingly endless series of anothers, reminder that the creators and readers of the New York Times (and other MSM properties) are the most parochial and badly educated people you’re likely to ever encounter. Even when I was a little kid I somehow knew from reading that Argentinians were largely European. If New York Times creators and readers paid any attention to football/soccer (which many almost certainly would claim to) they would know that Argentinians are white. You would also expect them to know that Argentinian immigrants are about the least of America’s immigrant problem.

    The simplest way to keep a dark skinned person from Accra from getting discriminated against in the U.S. is by not letting him into the U.S. Why subject him to our racist society?

    It’s not about what’s good for immigrants; it’s about screwing whites in America.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  91. Jack D says:
    @Thomm

    Argentines are not as white as you think. Like the rest of Latin America, they did not have a “one-drop” rule. So a lot of Argentinians, once you get away from Buenos Aires where everyone is Italian or Jewish, have more than a drop of Indian blood. Not in the Liz Warren 1/1,024th sense but a visible dose (but less than most Mexicans). But in Argentina if you live a “white” lifestyle, you are considered “white” even if you aren’t by American standards.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  92. @22pp22

    Some decent numbers of people from certain races can live together just fine. We do it right now. Depends on the race. Africans with any of the other more-civilized races, not so much.

  93. Jack D says:
    @PiltdownMan

    They went there because Peron was sympathetic to them. If it reminded them of back home, it was not in a good way. Eichmann was located by the Israelis when his son began dating a German girl who was (unbeknownst to him) 1/2 Jewish. Her Jewish father put 2 and 2 together and dropped a dime on him to the Israeli embassy.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  94. @Daniel H

    Ridiculous. Likewise, Brahmin Americans who have been the beneficiaries of the longest lasting system of racial oppression in the history of the world, the minute they set foot in America, are presumed to be put-upon, oppressed racial minorities, qualifying for affirmative action . . . .

    That is ridiculous, but that’s not really the point. The point is that whether they are “oppressed” here is irrelevant to their claim for affirmative action because they chose to be “oppressed” by coming here.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  95. Dr. X says:
    @22pp22

    There is another conclusion to draw from their arguments. If races cannot live together, maybe they shouldn’t.

    “It will probably be asked, Why not retain and incorporate the blacks into the state, and thus save the expense of supplying, by importation of white settlers, the vacancies they will leave? Deep rooted prejudices entertained by the whites; ten thousand recollections, by the blacks, of the injuries they have sustained; new provocations; the real distinctions which nature has made; and many other circumstances, will divide us into parties, and produce convulsions, which will probably never end but in the extermination of the one or the other race.”

    Thomas, Jefferson, 1781

  96. @black sea

    “they don’t believe they qualify for the condemnation of God or History or the Third World or Whoever/Whatever they think judges such matters”

    And as they lie bleeding out it will belatedly occur to them that it wasn’t “God or History” whose judgement they should have feared but rather the raging horde of brown locusts who butchered them with machetes.

  97. @syonredux

    Hey, who is that Catholic cleric wearing lawyer glasses? Did the College of Cardinals really elect Rudy Giuliani as Pope? When did that happen?

    On the subject of Argentina, how did all those people of Euro ancestery with not much indigineous mixing trash that country so badly? Spain can blame their troubles on Roma, France, we all know what is taking place there, and yeah, yeah, Mr. Peron and his wives, but what is Argentina’s excuse?

  98. poolside says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Those girls are wearing soccer jerseys, for the Boca Juniors club, I think.

    It looks like they are part of a tour group at Walt Disney World (that appears to be the Big Thunder Mountain attraction in the background). Disney World has become a big destination for South American youth tour groups. They wear matching clothes and walk around in big groups, often singing songs.

    Disney loves the South American teens because they stay a long time and spend lots of money.

    The last time I was there, I saw several groups of Argentinian teens that looked just like that photo.

  99. @Almost Missouri

    It turns out that there was another movie director named Paul Verhoeven, a German, who directed movies starting in 1933 at the beginning of the third Reich all the way to the 1970s. I guess wasn’t just influenced by Nazi movies, he made them.

    Other than that, the Paul Verhoeven we all know was indeed a small boy, but one who lived very close to a V1 launch site, and he saw plenty of death and destruction, to which—according to him—he reacted like the kid character in John Boorman’s WWII movie Hope and Glory—as an exciting adventure.

    https://drafthouse.com/news/perfect-perversion-the-feature-films-of-paul-verhoeven-part-one

    Perhaps this misanthropy was born out of being a first hand witness to the ultimate evils humans are capable of. Born in Amsterdam on July 18, 1938, Verhoeven was a small child when the Nazis invaded Holland during the spring of ‘40.

    Though they’d only occupy his country until he was seven years old, the director’s touched upon the psychological impact these events had on his developing brain.

    Having discovered the bodies of shot down Allied pilots and seen propaganda reels projected in Dutch cinema houses, Verhoeven once commented that peace seemed strange in relation to the atrocities of war he’d been brought up with.

    Though it’s always a dodgy proposition to try and diagnose an artiste’s mental preoccupations based on half-sketched autobiographical narratives, the temptation to draw conclusions in conjunction with his work is too great.

    Young Verhoeven observed what hate could do when allowed to run rampant, and it painted his earliest memories of people with the worst possible palette. Concurrently, propaganda movies taught him that cinema could relay the lies of its creators; skewed perspectives that hid true intentions of mainstream art.

  100. @Jack D

    Yes. I should have used a /s tag.

  101. Those replies suggest the commenters are not even aware of the purported purpose of AA and didn’t understand Steve. Especially, the last one seems to think AA is there to somehow stop blacks from being exposed to things that make them feel bad.

  102. Ragno says:

    My mom was an immigrant from Buenos Aires, who would have been scandalized by the topic (most Argentineans are at best three or four generations removed from their European roots – it was less than that when she got here).

    When she was dying, they housed her in a room with a Dominican woman (who wasn’t dying – she was there for knee surgery – but was forever belly-aching as though she was). When my sister and I had to tell her to keep quiet and let my mother rest, she turned to her visitors and loudly stage-whispered “Estamos molestando al europeo“. An hour later, they moved her out of there at our insistence (one of the rare instances of a”European” pulling rank on a proper Latinx – granted, she needed to be dying of cancer to win this boon).

    In case anybody out there is still wondering why the notion of suicide keeps gaining more and more adherents….

  103. Lowe says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I never interpreted the black female Sky Marshal as humor. The fascist society of the future does not have racial animosity anymore, having turned all its animosity outward to its enemies in space.

    There was no suggestion that the new Marshal was symbolic. Nor was there suggestion of a racial hierarchy or preference system. Society is fully merit-based, and discipline-based. Recall how Rico’s intelligent, psychic friend is recruited right out of high school for a prestigious assignment in military intelligence.

    Starship Troopers may be one of the most egalitarian films I have ever seen. Men and women bunk together in the marine boot camp, even shower together, with no hint of scandal. The races intermingle, and show no resentment to one another. All people are equal.

    The theme was surely intended by the writers and director. Notice the scene where Rico is whipped for his negligence on the practice field, which led to the death of another recruit. It is a black man who wields the whip. To me this says there is no master or slave, no higher or lower person, because all are slaves of the state.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
  104. @22pp22

    Agree totally, although based on your past comments, I think you’re being ironic/sarcastic about the white oppression statement. Separate races-separate countries.

  105. anon[349] • Disclaimer says:

    When [minorities] are not categorized negatively by the sound of their names, the color of their skin, or the accent they have, then we can revisit your suggestion.

    And when it is revisited, we will find that the goalposts have been moved. Just ask Andrew Bolt.

  106. Lowe says:
    @Redneck farmer

    I read Heinlein’s novel after I saw the movie, admittedly.

    I agree that the movie is nothing like the book, with the exception that the book does emphasize the importance of physical discipline, toughness, and confrontation to the personal development of the soldier, and the individual broadly. The movie does the same.

    My opinion is that the movie is better than the book.

  107. @Dave Pinsen

    Boca Juniors is considered the club of the working class while their chief rivals, River Plate, is considered the club of the upper class. If those Boca girls are the working class, I’d love to see the River Plate girls.

    Now that I think about it though, I’m pretty sure those are the national team jerseys. Light blue and white vertical stripes for home and solid dark blue for away.

  108. Lowe says:
    @Anon

    That will never happen. Despite rationalizations about diversity in public places, and about historical grievances, functionally affirmative action is about trying to correct for inborn inability.

    There isn’t going to be a day that NAMs are born with more ability than whites and Asians. So there will never be a pole shift after which affirmative action favors whites or Asians.

    The best we can hope for is that AA is outright banned by the Supreme Court. Of course that ban will be hard to enforce on unwilling universities, etc. It would take generations for AA to disappear, even after being banned. Assuming we can get it banned at all.

  109. anon[349] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve is perhaps forgetting that Obama was himself a victim of racism.

    But kudos on the Buenos Aires troll job. The only downside is those idiots will never realise they even made a fool of themselves.

  110. @PiltdownMan

    I recall reading that Mexico imported more black slaves and, while slavery was legal in Mexico and US, Mexican blacks were a much larger percentage of overall population in Mexico than US. Nobody seems to know what happened to Mexico’s blacks either, lol. It’s a real mystery.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Flip
  111. anon[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer

    It wasn’t even really based on it, supposedly. They just bought the rights so they could use a well-known title on their vaguely similar mil-SF movie. I believe it was originally called Bug Hunt on Outpost 9, although I do have a sneaking suspicion I’ve been trolled here.

  112. @Dave Pinsen

    Those are Argentina national team jerseys. By the way something, Boca is the working class club (River is the rich man’s side), and league tickets in Argentina are relatively cheap. That’s why they have a lot of stadium violence (and their teams are often on the verge of bankruptcy).

  113. @PiltdownMan

    what happened to Argentina’s involuntary immigrants, those African slaves and their mulatto descendants who once outnumbered whites five to one

    Simple, there are no plantations in Argentina, it’s cattle country, thus no continued importation of “involuntary immigrants”. The only regions in South America with a significant black population are the tropical nations (Suriname, Guyana, Brazil, and to a lesser extent Venezuela), where were once vast sugar, banana, then rubber plantations.

    Another important factor is, unlike the norte Americanos, the colonizers of Latin America enslaved the native population.

  114. Beckow says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    …The best way to help them, along with everyone else to tighten the labor market.

    Bingo. That is so basic and so obvious that anyone not understanding it, or pretending not to ‘understand‘ it, is not worth having a discussion with. If they deny the nose between their eyes, they are not really acting in good faith. It is truly a cult.

  115. @22pp22

    There is another conclusion to draw from their arguments. If races cannot live together, maybe they shouldn’t.

    That doesn’t help with the White genocide project, though.  Besides the inevitable Haiti-ization of Black polities, letting White people live in their own communities, without having to suffer predation and “mixed” offspring and everything else—this is UNTHINKABLE according to the people who hate them.  White separatism, even if it is the cure for all variations of “racism” by removing the structures, institutions and implications of color from the lives of the colored, simply cannot be permitted.

  116. This “systemic racism” of which progressives speak, surely cannot have anything to do with the legacy of a slavery which is more or less 8 generations ago now.

    So there is no point to trying to limit racial preferences to descendants of slaves (assuming Mr. Sailer is serious with his proposal and not just mocking progressives).

    Rather “systemic racism” must be the unfortunate burden that civilized blacks bear based on their similar appearance to feral blacks (as Hillary so aptly described them).

    Here is the point: rewarding the civilized blacks with racial preferences in e.g. college admissions will not solve the problem. The solutions have to be directed at the feral blacks.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
    , @Jack D
  117. Travis says:
    @Daniel H

    true, it is strange that the current Pope would qualify for affirmative action and all the hispanic pokemon points when both his parents were born in Italian….but at least his native language is Spanish….while Ted Cruz is identified by the NY Times as one of the few non-whites in the Senate…even the Children of Ted Cruz qualify for affirmative action because they had a Grandfather born in Cuba (the son of a Spaniard born in Spain)…When does affirmative action end for the Cruz Family ? Will the grandchildren of Ted Cruz still qualify as being hispanic ?

  118. peterike says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Argentina is also one of the world’s most Jewish countries:

    Argentina’s wealthiest person, Eduardo Elsztain, is descended from Russian Jews, and is a yarmulke wearing supporter of Israel. The prominence and wealth of Jews in South America is remarkably little discussed anywhere. I know next to nothing about South American popular culture: do Jews there wage an endless war against white people too?

  119. Sleep says:

    And you picked one of the whitest countries in the world when you said Buenos Aires, but… all they see is a Spanish-looking name and assume the people there have brown skin.

  120. Graham says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    That’s per mil (‰), not per cent (%). Argentina has 4.26 Jews per 1000 people, according to Wikipedia. Apart from Israel only the USA and Canada have more than 1% Jews.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  121. @Clyde

    My first time looking at that feed.

    This is Colbert-class mockery, but from the right:  the left nods along, while the right laughs its collective @55 off.

  122. @Dave Pinsen

    So are the Argentines likely to fly to Miami or New York and become Americans. Not a lot of farmers or dockworkers on those flights in Steve’s example.

  123. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Argentines are not as white as you think. Like the rest of Latin America, they did not have a “one-drop” rule. So a lot of Argentinians, once you get away from Buenos Aires where everyone is Italian or Jewish, have more than a drop of Indian blood. Not in the Liz Warren 1/1,024th sense but a visible dose (but less than most Mexicans).

    Anglo-America also didn’t have a “one-drop” rule for Amerind ancestry.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  124. Whiskey says: • Website

    A nice long Cold War with China would dial down the anti White hatred of the virtue signalers.

    All we are asking is give war a chance. Peace is over. If you want it.

    Trannies gays lesbians and AA get tossed overboard quickly when there is a struggle with a foreign power where we might lose. Eve Tim Cook would shut up against the threat of Ci taking over Apple.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  125. @istevefan

    The refusal of the left to even consider the obvious solution to “racism”—remove the “oppressed” from the influence of their “oppressors”—summarizes its foundational dishonesty in a nutshell and proves that their only true goal is the elimination of Western culture and White people.

  126. @Mr McKenna

    We’re denying them what’s rightfully theirs if we let them stay in their own countries. How could we possibly justify that?

    I’m not sure how well the “access to White people is not a human right” meme plays with the center.

  127. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    Anglo Saxons tended to bring their women with them from the very beginning. The Spanish conquistadors arrived mostly as military men who were single and would find wives from the local population.

    Also it was a matter of %’s – the # of N. American Indians was small and became even smaller when most of them died of disease. So there was just not a lot of Indian blood to go around in N. America vs. the millions of white immigrants. So many white Americans might have more than 1 drop of Indian blood, but only 2, like Liz Warren (most have zero). Whereas in Argentina out in the provinces you see a lot of common people with straight black hair and dark coloration. These people will swear to you that they are not Indians (in America they would be lining up to get their casino checks with far less Indian blood) and culturally they aren’t, but I’ll bet that DNA wise they are 20 or 30% Indio. It all relates to what a culture rewards or punishes – in America there is a “flight from white” whereas in Argentina for centuries there was a “flight TO white”.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @syonredux
  128. @Fred Boynton

    Nobody seems to know what happened to Mexico’s blacks either

    There never was a Mexican welfare state to feed & breed the dysfunctional.  For quite some time the Black fraction of the USA was shrinking; that reversed when government took over the job of providing for endless numbers of bastards of the “oppressed”.

  129. @Steve in Greensboro

    The solutions have to be directed at the feral blacks.

    How does sterilization sound?  The historic version of this was leaving them poor and hungry so they didn’t have replacement fertility, but that has gone by the wayside.

  130. Anon[410] • Disclaimer says:

    Intersectional pile-up

  131. Jack D says:
    @Steve in Greensboro

    Harvard wants to reward blacks in general (because virtue signalling feels so good) but has no choice but to reward mostly “civilized” blacks (and most of those are talented tenth mulattoes, African, Caribbean, raised by a white mother or some combination) because there’s no way that (even with an AA boost) most “feral” blacks could ever make it thru Harvard. Most of them can barely read let alone make it thru 4 years at Harvard.

    There are a handful of feral blacks who really are high IQ, like the late Yale drug dealer Robert Peace or disgraced hedge fund manager Buddy Fletcher. But the problem is that they often use their high IQ for feral purposes.

    My son’s class at a Main Line suburban Phila. private boys school started out with a bunch of black scholarship students who would take the train in from the ghettos of Phila. every day (it didn’t hurt that some of them were talented athletes). There is a real effort by horrible white racist people to identify black kids who show even a glimmer of promise and give them every possible opportunity. But by graduation there were hardly any left. One by one, they each did some stereotypically black thing – stole from a teachers purse or from other student’s backpacks (my son lost an expensive graphing calculator) , sold drugs, pulled a knife, etc. and the school had no choice but to expel them. It was always a struggle for them to “act (and dress) white” all day and then go home to their friends in the hood. The saddest was the one whose father decide to shoot his entire family and himself. The kid survived but with brain injury.

    • Replies: @Steve in Greensboro
    , @Lowe
  132. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    Anglo Saxons tended to bring their women with them from the very beginning. The Spanish conquistadors arrived mostly as military men who were single and would find wives from the local population.

    That’s the key difference. Iberian immigration to the New World in the 16th and 17th centuries was a heavily male affair. If one of those fellows wanted sexual diversion, he had to turn to Blacks and Amerinds.And lots of those relationships involved concubinage and de facto polygyny (the Church looked the other way).

    Mainland Anglo-America, in contrast, had considerably more European women. Indeed, the MA Bay Colony in the 17th century had a sex ratio that was nearly 50/50.

    Also it was a matter of %’s – the # of N. American Indians was small and became even smaller when most of them died of disease. So there was just not a lot of Indian blood to go around in N. America vs. the millions of white immigrants.

    Which also helps explain the differing genetic profiles of Mexico and Argentina. Mexico had a much larger Amerind population….and today the average Mexican is approx 50% Amerind,whereas the average Argentine is around 20% Amerind…..

    • Replies: @Jack D
  133. Jack D says:
    @Whiskey

    I don’t think so. We are too far gone for that. These people would rather see the whole ship go down in flames than lose their privileged position.

  134. @Mr. Rational

    Sterilizing progressives? Sounds good. I think that fits in well with their AGW fantasies.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  135. @Jack D

    Exactly. There is no greater felicity in America than to be born one of the 10% of blacks with IQ greater than 100. All sorts of government and private sector jobs are waiting for you. Those folks do not need any sort of societal assistance.

    The solution for the feral blacks is certainly not scholarships to Harvard or Stanford (unless they can play NFL quality cornerback). The solution for feral blacks is more stringent policing, stringent child support, restructuring welfare programs to encourage family formation, longer prison sentences and more importantly to shut off the flood of Mexicans and Central Americans competing for the low end jobs.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  136. Jack D says:
    @Richard S

    Presumably in the 19th century they imagined they’d feel more at home among Latin Catholics than those snooty WASPs in North America..

    No it had nothing to do with that. There’s the whole language thing to start with. Being able to speak the language is a big advantage. There are a bunch of Jews in Argentina and it never occurred to them that they would be more at home there.

    The real reason is that during the 19th century and up until the early 20th, Argentina was considered an equally (well not equally – the US still got most of the immigrants) suitable place for people seeking to immigrate – it was a fast growing promising country just like the US. Some immigrants picked the US, others picked Canada or Australia or Argentina. It wasn’t like today where the US is a world superpower and Argentina is in the 3rd world on a bad day. Just from the grand late 19th century architecture of Buenos Aires (not unlike Paris) you can see that there was a lot of $ floating around there.

  137. Lowe says:
    @Jack D

    That is terrible, about the father killing his family, but leaving his son terribly wounded. It is hard to think of something more tragic.

    As for the private school, I can’t see giving a kid pulling a knife any chances, before expulsion. But I hope they gave a couple chances to those caught stealing. Theft is not as serious as threatening or physically harming others.

  138. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    the average Mexican is approx 50% Amerind,whereas the average Argentine is around 20% Amerind…

    What’s interesting though is the level of denial. I guess at 50%, most Mexicans can’t deny that they are of mixed Indian blood (although they will deny that they have any African blood even though they have a little). But most Argentines will totally deny that they are Indian in any way even though at 20% they are Indian enough that it shows somewhat in their appearance. I’ll bet not many people in Argentina do 23 and me because they don’t want to know.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  139. @Mr. Rational

    The historic version of this was leaving them poor and hungry so they didn’t have replacement fertility, but that has gone by the wayside.

    African-Americans do not have replacement fertility now. Neither do Whites, Asians, Hispanics, or any other demographic group. Steve Sailer’s High IQ Circus has apparently been unable to rearrange its mental furniture so as to accommodate this fact. There seems to be some vague notion that welfare is funding a bumper crop of Black babies, but that simply isn’t the case. The African-American TFR is 1.89.

    This article is predictably left-slanted but it contains decent and usable information.

    https://ifstudies.org/blog/baby-bust-fertility-is-declining-the-most-among-minority-women

    • Replies: @MaMu1977
    , @academic gossip
  140. Anonym says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The NY Times is being consistently wrong here, as always. Steve Sailer is being unusually wrong in supporting discrimination against white men.

    Yeah. I wonder how much AA say, the Palestinians or those poor, persecuted Ethiopian Jews get in Israel.

    I’m sure Whiskey will be quick to tell you that he’d gladly multiply the amount of AA they give infinitely many times. What a mensch!

  141. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    the average Mexican is approx 50% Amerind,whereas the average Argentine is around 20% Amerind…

    What’s interesting though is the level of denial. I guess at 50%, most Mexicans can’t deny that they are of mixed Indian blood (although they will deny that they have any African blood even though they have a little). But most Argentines will totally deny that they are Indian in any way even though at 20% they are Indian enough that it shows somewhat in their appearance. I’ll bet not many people in Argentina do 23 and me because they don’t want to know.

    Yeah, but the percentages more or less match self-perceptions. The average Mexican is 50% Amerind, and the nation officially defines itself as Mestizo. The average Argentine is roughly 25% Amerind, and Argentina defines itself as a White “settler” nation.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Jack D
    , @black sea
  142. a brown skinned man named Barack Hussein Obama, were treated fairly in our country when they apply for loans,

    Barack didn’t need to be treated fairly. He had Tony Rezko helping him out.

  143. Evocatus says:
    @Thomm

    According to our insane system, an Argentinian with four Italian-born grandparents is considered an oppressed minority, yet an Italian American from, say Staten Island, with the same lineage is declared a white oppressor who must atone for his privilege.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  144. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:

    these immigrants just off the plane from south america or africa and complaining about how they’re victims of raycism, if they’re so fantastic why aren’t they building their own countries?

    i don’t owe them anything

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
  145. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    The average Mexican is 50% Amerind, and the nation officially defines itself as Mestizo

    Greatest Race in the Cosmos, i hear

  146. Jack D says:
    @syonredux

    But self-perception is a rubber yardstick (“race is a social construct” is true to some extent. In Argentina, being “only” 1/4th Indian make you white, in America being 1/1,024th Indian makes you (or at least Liz Warren) a Native American qualified for AA. The average “white” Argentine is probably more Indian than the average enrolled “Cherokee” tribe member in America.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  147. Dtbb says:
    @Anonymous

    Maradona’s teammate Jose Luis Brown scored in the 86 final. So there are definitely Browns in Argentina. We are everywhere!

    • Replies: @Evocatus
  148. Are there any brown-skinned people from Buenos Aires?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  149. @Anon

    At no point in Barry Soetero’s life has h been confused as the descendant of slaves. As Mr. Sailer has pointed out time and time again, he was known for that exotic, foreign student quality. Fifteen year old Barry, much less 35 year old Barack, would not give up that status symbol as internationalist outsider for anything in the world.

    I know personally a woman who attended Punahou with Barry and the general perception was that he was Polynesian, possibly Fijian, not a Halfrican Prince. If you find pictures of him from that era it makes sense.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  150. syonredux says:
    @Jack D

    But self-perception is a rubber yardstick (“race is a social construct” is true to some extent. In Argentina, being “only” 1/4th Indian make you white, in America being 1/1,024th Indian makes you (or at least Liz Warren) a Native American qualified for AA. The average “white” Argentine is probably more Indian than the average enrolled “Cherokee” tribe member in America.

    Oil+casinos+AA can do a lot…..

  151. @OilcanFloyd

    At what point do the generations of mostly lower and middle class whites who have been denied opportunities due to AA get their recognition? It seems the only people who support AA are virtue signalers, beneficiaries, and people who have been little affected by it–which is apparently a large portion of the nation. The whites who support AA are the confusing ones, because they are the most affected by loss of opportunity and lowered standard of life and services.

    The last time I can recall that we actually had an open public political debate on the issue was during the 2000 Presidential Election. Al Gore’s defense of the practice was to “mend it, don’t end it.”

    All four of Mr. Gore’s children were accepted at and attended Harvard University, being his alma mater.

  152. Jack D says:
    @Alec Leamas

    Really, cause he don’t look Polynesian to me?

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
  153. @ConantheContrarian

    Out in the slums, in the wealthy center city not so much.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  154. Jack D says:
    @John Henry

    Leftists don’t want to understand (or pretend not to understand) that college admission is a zero sum game. According to their logic (and Harvard says exactly this in their briefs in the current case) , affirmative action can only HELP an applicant. It is therefore a POSITIVE kind of discrimination. They are only give some people a little boost, they aren’t HURTING anyone.

    Now this is complete BS given the fixed # of slots, but they say this with a (seemingly) straight face. Most Leftists are English majors or something – math is not their forte.

  155. @Steve in Greensboro

    No, the ferals (see Angel Adams).  The progressives are handling their own genetic extinction nicely.

  156. Flip says:
    @Fred Boynton

    There is actually a several percent African ancestry in the base Mexican bloodline so many of them must have been assimilated.

    • Replies: @Fred Boynton
  157. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer

    A lot of the slum dwellers in Buenos Aires are from Paraguay (in Latin America you have the phenomenon of people moving from really poor countries to merely poor countries to do menial labor for even less than the local citizens are paid – same thing in Africa). 95% of Paraguayans are Mestizo and I think “Mestizo” is being kind in many cases – they are Mestizo in the sense that they live a “Spanish” lifestyle, are Catholic, speak Spanish and are not part of any tribe, but genetically they are probably more Guarani than Spanish.

  158. @Graham

    Apart from Israel only the USA and Canada have more than 1% Jews.

    Don’t leave out Gibraltar! 2%!

    • Replies: @Jack D
  159. @Flip

    actually a several percent African ancestry in the base Mexican bloodline

    lol indeed. A “several percent African ancestry in the base Mexican bloodline” sure sounds like some of the mulatta were wifed up or otherwise spared (for the brothels?) and the rest of the population “mysteriously disappeared” lol.

  160. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    In the past it was even more (as a %). Back in the day (and right up to EU times) the Spanish refused to supply the British at Gibraltar (even now with Brexit they are starting to make noises again) so the Brits relied on supplies from Morocco, just across the strait. Sephardic Jews acted as the middlemen between the Brits and the Moroccans.

  161. @Jack D

    Fijians:

    They have significant Melanesian admixture, and are darker skinned than ordinary Polynesians.

  162. Evocatus says:
    @Dtbb

    The father of the Argentinian Navy was an Irishman named Guillermo Brown

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Brown_(admiral)

  163. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Dave Pinsen

    Okay, it’s the national team’s jersey. My mistake. Thanks for the correction.

  164. @Lowe

    I agree with your entire comment in regard to the world of the film. There’s no reason to think the black Sky Marshal will be any more or any less competent than the former.

    However, Verhoeven still presents contrasts and juxtapositions that wink at the real-world audience, and that development was no exception: The abrupt replacement of Teutonic, martially arrogant “Sky Marshal Dienes” with intuitive, cautious, yet mad-as-hell “Sky Marshal Tehat Meru” plays two human clichés—visual, and otherwise—against each other in a slyly humorous way.

    Luc Besson’s The Fifth Element is another movie that more outlandishly does that kind of thing, often with the contrast within a single character.

  165. e says:

    I’m fascinated how many people bring up Barack Obama as proof of the huge burdens inevitably suffered by a black man in America.

    Exactly. I wonder if these posters would acknowledge the burdens they place on white boys and men wearing work jeans, heavy boots and sporting a Midwestern or Southern accent. Do Ivy universities seek such kids?

  166. MaMu1977 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    IME, the current state of black female fertility (post-welfare, with consequent free housing and money) works like this…

    0-1 child born between the ages of 15-19
    1-2 children born between the ages of 20-29

    Or,

    0-2 children born between the ages of 20-29
    1 child born after 30

    These numbers are bone deep, even among the perennial government-sponsored class of black Americans.

  167. @Intelligent Dasein

    TFR differences underestimate the differences in population growth. The important parameter is the velocity of TFR, fertility per woman per year. Having the same number of kids earlier = higher velocity = faster growth.

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