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Bamford in NYT: "Israel's NSA Scandal"
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Investigative reporter James Bamford, who has been writing books about the National Security Administration since The Puzzle Palace in the early 1980s, writes in the NYT:

Israel’s N.S.A. Scandal
By JAMES BAMFORD SEPT. 16, 2014

WASHINGTON — IN Moscow this summer, while reporting a story for Wired magazine, I had the rare opportunity to hang out for three days with Edward J. Snowden. It gave me a chance to get a deeper understanding of who he is and why, as a National Security Agency contractor, he took the momentous step of leaking hundreds of thousands of classified documents.

Among his most shocking discoveries, he told me, was the fact that the N.S.A. was routinely passing along the private communications of Americans to a large and very secretive Israeli military organization known as Unit 8200. This transfer of intercepts, he said, included the contents of the communications as well as metadata such as who was calling whom.

Over a year ago in Taki’s Magazine, I wrote about Unit 8200 in “Does Israel Have a Backdoor to U.S. Intelligence?

Snowden’s impresario Glenn Greenwald’s genius at stage management can be seen in his pragmatic decision to initially downplay the Israeli role in the NSA scandal since the thought of Israel tends to induce crimestop in the brains of Americans in the media business with career ambitions.

In contrast, Bamford has been frank about the Israel connection for a long time, which is probably one reason why his impressive work over the decades, which is respected even by many NSA insiders, never had much traction.

Typically, when such sensitive information is transferred to another country, it would first be “minimized,” meaning that names and other personally identifiable information would be removed. But when sharing with Israel, the N.S.A. evidently did not ensure that the data was modified in this way.

Mr. Snowden stressed that the transfer of intercepts to Israel contained the communications — email as well as phone calls — of countless Arab- and Palestinian-Americans whose relatives in Israel and the Palestinian territories could become targets based on the communications. “I think that’s amazing,” he told me. “It’s one of the biggest abuses we’ve seen.”

It appears that Mr. Snowden’s fears were warranted. Last week, 43 veterans of Unit 8200 — many still serving in the reserves — accused the organization of startling abuses. In a letter to their commanders, to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and to the head of the Israeli army, they charged that Israel used information collected against innocent Palestinians for “political persecution.” In testimonies and interviews given to the media, they specified that data were gathered on Palestinians’ sexual orientations, infidelities, money problems, family medical conditions and other private matters that could be used to coerce Palestinians into becoming collaborators or create divisions in their society.

You know, if Israel’s Unit 8200 is spying on the sex lives of Palestinian-Americans, how do we know they’re not also spying on the sex lives of Congressman-Americans? Might that have something to do with the 29 standing ovations Netanyahu got the last time he spoke to Congress?

Carl Cameron did a fascinating four part series for Fox News on Israel’s infiltration of the American telecom metadata business way back in 2001, but it was quickly spiked by higher-ups at Fox with no explanation. Fortunately, patriotic citizens have kept copies available online, links to which you can find in my old Taki’s article.



The veterans of Unit 8200 declared that they had a “moral duty” to no longer “take part in the state’s actions against Palestinians.” An Israeli military spokesman disputed the letter’s overall drift but said the charges would be examined.

It should trouble the American public that some or much of the information in question — intended not for national security purposes but simply to pursue political agendas — may have come directly from the N.S.A.’s domestic dragnet. According to documents leaked by Mr. Snowden and reported by the British newspaper The Guardian, the N.S.A. has been sending intelligence to Israel since at least March 2009.

The memorandum of agreement between the N.S.A. and its Israeli counterpart covers virtually all forms of communication, including but not limited to “unevaluated and unminimized transcripts, gists, facsimiles, telex, voice and Digital Network Intelligence metadata and content.” The memo also indicates that the N.S.A. does not filter out American communications before delivery to Israel; indeed, the agency “routinely sends” unminimized data….

It should also trouble Americans that the N.S.A. could head down a similar path in this country. Indeed, there is some indication, from a top-secret 2012 document from Mr. Snowden’s leaked files that I saw last year, that it already is. The document, from Gen. Keith B. Alexander, then the director of the N.S.A., notes that the agency had been compiling records of visits to pornographic websites and proposes using that information to damage the reputations of people whom the agency considers “radicalizers” — not necessarily terrorists, but those attempting, through the use of incendiary speech, to radicalize others. (The Huffington Post has published a redacted version of the document.)

In Moscow, Mr. Snowden told me that the document reminded him of the F.B.I.’s overreach during the days of J. Edgar Hoover, when the bureau abused its powers to monitor and harass political activists. “It’s much like how the F.B.I. tried to use Martin Luther King’s infidelity to talk him into killing himself,” he said. “We said those kinds of things were inappropriate back in the ’60s. Why are we doing that now? Why are we getting involved in this again?” …

 
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  1. Might that have something to do with the 29 standing ovations Netanyahu got the last time he spoke to Congress?

    There are probably several other better explanations, not the least are Christian Zionism and fundamentalist dispensationalism being popular in parts of the USA but hardly anywhere else.

  2. Perhaps it would not send the message you want to send, but it would be funny to replace “in the early 1980s” with “before Snowden was born.”

  3. Here’s one member of the American Public who’s perfectly thrilled to see leverage gained against Palestinians and arabs, whether or not living in the U.S. We need to discriminate more on race, not less.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Right, we do need to discriminate more on race. That means we need to start discriminating against the Israelis.
  4. @Anonymous
    Here's one member of the American Public who's perfectly thrilled to see leverage gained against Palestinians and arabs, whether or not living in the U.S. We need to discriminate more on race, not less.

    Right, we do need to discriminate more on race. That means we need to start discriminating against the Israelis.

  5. “We said those kinds of things were inappropriate back in the ’60s. Why are we doing that now? Why are we getting involved in this again?”

    Because why are you even asking, comrade? What are you, an anti-semite?

  6. “Might that have something to do with the 29 standing ovations Netanyahu got the last time he spoke to Congress?”

    lolol no

  7. Sorry Steve, there is nothing special about this intelligence partnership relationship with Israel; it’s the same agreement the U.S. has with dozens of other countries, and it’s not nearly as tight as the relationship with the Anglosphere countries. Furthermore, it’s reciprocal, and the Israelis certainly have plenty of accesses that the U.S. doesn’t and the collection on which – especially in exigent circumstances in which there isn’t time to perform development – is important to the American national interest.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Then why spike Carl Cameron's series on Fox News?
    , @Simon in London
    Does Israel give all their data on Israelis to the NSA? Somehow I doubt it. I get the impression the Israelis are quite patriotic.
  8. @Handle
    Sorry Steve, there is nothing special about this intelligence partnership relationship with Israel; it's the same agreement the U.S. has with dozens of other countries, and it's not nearly as tight as the relationship with the Anglosphere countries. Furthermore, it's reciprocal, and the Israelis certainly have plenty of accesses that the U.S. doesn't and the collection on which - especially in exigent circumstances in which there isn't time to perform development - is important to the American national interest.

    Then why spike Carl Cameron’s series on Fox News?

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    Why spike Cameron's Fox News story. Duh.

    Israelis have LOTS of people who speak Arabic and other dialects and we do not. To even ask this is silly, the answer is obvious. The Israelis provide linguistic support to our ability to monitor in real time Arabic dialect communications of AQ, various affiliates, ISIS, IRAN, and a host of other targets.

    Likely the National Security Advisor asked on this basis and Fox complied.
    , @Anonymous
    Look for it on YouTube
  9. @Handle
    Sorry Steve, there is nothing special about this intelligence partnership relationship with Israel; it's the same agreement the U.S. has with dozens of other countries, and it's not nearly as tight as the relationship with the Anglosphere countries. Furthermore, it's reciprocal, and the Israelis certainly have plenty of accesses that the U.S. doesn't and the collection on which - especially in exigent circumstances in which there isn't time to perform development - is important to the American national interest.

    Does Israel give all their data on Israelis to the NSA? Somehow I doubt it. I get the impression the Israelis are quite patriotic.

    • Replies: @inertial

    Does Israel give all their data on Israelis to the NSA?
     
    Remember, NSA weren't giving Israel information on Americans.

    I am sure Israel would be happy to give us the same information about the similar sort of individuals -- if we ask. Do we ask? Somehow I think not.
  10. Right, we do need to discriminate more on race. That means we
    need to start discriminating against the Israelis.

    Game, set and match.

  11. You can bet that we’re not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back.

    We can only dream of such a partnership with Somalia or Yemen, to help us keep tabs on their nationals in the US.

    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "You can bet that we’re not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back."

    Actually I'd bet we are getting nothing from them. Maybe some silly stuff about Muslims they want dead for some reason. But if they don't have a particular desire to see some particular individual or group killed, I doubt they are giving us anything.

    Oh yeah, I also believe that they get what they ask for, when they ask for it, no questions whatsoever, from our intelligence agencies. If that means sex tapes of Congressman Blank, or random telephone conversations by a housewife in Peoria, they get it.

    And if one of those agencies happened to quibble about it, then they get a new director and headmen ASAP.
    , @Paul Allen
    >You can bet that we’re not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back.

    A safe haven for Jewish-American criminals to hide from American justice?

    http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=15247
  12. Looks like all of our future “radicalizers” will be asexuals or older women. Or Luddites.

  13. @Simon in London
    Does Israel give all their data on Israelis to the NSA? Somehow I doubt it. I get the impression the Israelis are quite patriotic.

    Does Israel give all their data on Israelis to the NSA?

    Remember, NSA weren’t giving Israel information on Americans.

    I am sure Israel would be happy to give us the same information about the similar sort of individuals — if we ask. Do we ask? Somehow I think not.

  14. @Silicon Valley Dinosaur
    You can bet that we're not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back.

    We can only dream of such a partnership with Somalia or Yemen, to help us keep tabs on their nationals in the US.

    “You can bet that we’re not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back.”

    Actually I’d bet we are getting nothing from them. Maybe some silly stuff about Muslims they want dead for some reason. But if they don’t have a particular desire to see some particular individual or group killed, I doubt they are giving us anything.

    Oh yeah, I also believe that they get what they ask for, when they ask for it, no questions whatsoever, from our intelligence agencies. If that means sex tapes of Congressman Blank, or random telephone conversations by a housewife in Peoria, they get it.

    And if one of those agencies happened to quibble about it, then they get a new director and headmen ASAP.

  15. America’s servility towards Israel is one of the most pathetic things about this country.

  16. I honestly don’t know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.

    First, Israel is almost certainly the “Sixth Eye” … referring to the Five Eyes agreement that allows the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to spy on each others citizens and residents, to get around domestic spying restrictions. This dates to the start of the Cold War and was instrumental in stopping total Soviet Penetration of the Alliance (even so the Soviets had quite a lot of access to top secret info via traitors and paid informants).

    Morever, MASSIVE and I mean TRULY MASSIVE intelligence operations against the Palestinians is the only alternative to overt, and truly massive conventional warfare.

    This just in — the Israeli public will not tolerate being rocketed with impunity. Their democratically elected governments are expected to stop it. Regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. If Bibi does not stop it, they’ll elect someone else.

    Thus Bib, and no doubt other governments including LABOR have chosen the blackmail and ferreting out of secrets route rather than Dresden route. That’s more humane for the Palestinians and cheaper for Israelis.

    But lets get real. Citizenism does not mean “well they are Palestinians and thus SACRED OTHERS so we have to just get rocketed because the Euros or Steve Sailer would not like it.” It means Israelis come first.

    So why does the US continue to supply the Israelis with that info? I mean really the Obama Administration detests Israel and Bibi personally. So why? WHY do they hand over this info still?

    Because doing so allows the Israelis to avoid bombing the Palestinians into splinters like the US at Dresden. It allows them to manage, contain, and avoid overt warfare in favor of spy-fare.

    Now, the cost of Spy-fare is the loss of civil liberties. But for a population that both wants no rockets (or here at home planes flying into buildings) and wants to avoid a massive conventional (or nuclear) war, its Spy-fare all the way down.

    I personally would prefer a permanent solution. Allowing Israel to kill say about 45% of male Palestinians between 14-45 (and about the same amount of women) to get a peace. Nothing causes peace like about almost half your male population DEAD. That is what brought the South to surrender. Or the Nazis. Or Japan. It tends to amplify the killing in giant wave, and then flatten out to peace for generations. But that’s just me — and the cost would pretty bad for the Palestinians.

    No one seriously endorses Derbyshire’s Rubble Makes No Trouble for Afghanistan or the like, because the public recoils from images of dead civilians and kids in particular. Weepy sentimentalism — those civilians would happily behead the public. But there it is. Why do you think planes stopped flying into buildings all of a sudden?

    Because the NSA spies on the entire world. All of it. Including us.

    Choose and be damned, as they say.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Whiskey, I hope you really aren't Jewish, because then I'd be related to you, and I don't want that. I'm half-seriously considering converting to Christianity to give these people the finger--any suggestions here for recommended denominations?

    Exterminate half the Palestinians? If Israel and Palestine have a war, that's their business, but we oughtn't to be aiding and abetting it either way. I don't think there's really an ending to that conflict that doesn't involve someone getting genocided, but it's blood we don't need on our hands as Americans. Stay out, and if Israel wants dirt from us, they gotta give us some in return on Russia or China.

    As for spiking Carl Cameron's series? Whether Murdoch's actually pro-Israel or just afraid of the other (Jewish) media moguls ganging up on him, I don't know, and doubt I ever will.
    , @Lot

    No one seriously endorses Derbyshire’s Rubble Makes No Trouble for Afghanistan or the like, because the public recoils from images of dead civilians and kids in particular.
     
    The public reacts to images, not numbers. Israel's "bad PR" from the recent Gaza war would have been exactly the same with 200 or 20,000 deaths.

    Israelis have LOTS of people who speak Arabic and other dialects and we do not.
     
    Actually we have plenty of them. They tend to not be people we want to give security clearances to, like Major Nidal.
    , @Anonym
    Is this the Scotch or the Irish side talking, Whiskey?
  17. @Steve Sailer
    Then why spike Carl Cameron's series on Fox News?

    Why spike Cameron’s Fox News story. Duh.

    Israelis have LOTS of people who speak Arabic and other dialects and we do not. To even ask this is silly, the answer is obvious. The Israelis provide linguistic support to our ability to monitor in real time Arabic dialect communications of AQ, various affiliates, ISIS, IRAN, and a host of other targets.

    Likely the National Security Advisor asked on this basis and Fox complied.

  18. Did FBI really use MLK’s infidelity as stated, to try to have him commit suicide?

    Valid source please

  19. Likely the National Security Advisor asked on this basis and Fox complied.

    Likely AIPAC asked and Fox complied. FIFY.

  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Whenever Whiskey writes a comment like that one, I’m reminded of why these guys don’t belong. Just another semite tribe.

    Right, we do need to discriminate more on race. That means we
    need to start discriminating against the Israelis.

    This. A million times this. The other semitic groups would be dragging us in and mooching and spying and “dual-loyalty”-ing as well, if they could. But we treat them with due suspicion and discrimination, so they can’t. If we applied due discrimination against Israelis, they’d be powerless to suck us into their “they started it first” nonsense, what a shameful waste. What we could do with all that wealth, if we weren’t pissing the arab world off defending that shitty little country.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The U.S. would still be involved in the Middle East because of the need to guarantee the supply of cheap oil for itself and its trading partners. The U.S. government intervened in internal political affairs in Iran in the 1950's for just that reason. At the time, the relationship between the U.S. government and Israel wasn't close.
  21. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “It’s much like how the F.B.I. tried to use Martin Luther King’s infidelity to talk him into killing himself,”

    Kind of like Dr. Bruce Ivins after the FBI unsuccessfully gaslighted Dr. Steven Hatfill for years for being a “person of interest” in the anthrax attacks. The 2001 attacks were started right after 9/11 and major media and instigators were blaming Saddam Hussein and Iraq. When that didn’t fly, Barbara Rosenberg was quick to distract away from the possibility of a state actor and instigated the calumny against Hatfill. After years with no evidence that didn’t fly. Ivins kills himself in 2008 and voila, the FBI confirms he the sole person behind the anthrax attacks and a cross-dressing weirdo to boot.

  22. @Whiskey
    I honestly don't know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.

    First, Israel is almost certainly the "Sixth Eye" ... referring to the Five Eyes agreement that allows the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to spy on each others citizens and residents, to get around domestic spying restrictions. This dates to the start of the Cold War and was instrumental in stopping total Soviet Penetration of the Alliance (even so the Soviets had quite a lot of access to top secret info via traitors and paid informants).

    Morever, MASSIVE and I mean TRULY MASSIVE intelligence operations against the Palestinians is the only alternative to overt, and truly massive conventional warfare.

    This just in -- the Israeli public will not tolerate being rocketed with impunity. Their democratically elected governments are expected to stop it. Regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. If Bibi does not stop it, they'll elect someone else.

    Thus Bib, and no doubt other governments including LABOR have chosen the blackmail and ferreting out of secrets route rather than Dresden route. That's more humane for the Palestinians and cheaper for Israelis.

    But lets get real. Citizenism does not mean "well they are Palestinians and thus SACRED OTHERS so we have to just get rocketed because the Euros or Steve Sailer would not like it." It means Israelis come first.

    So why does the US continue to supply the Israelis with that info? I mean really the Obama Administration detests Israel and Bibi personally. So why? WHY do they hand over this info still?

    Because doing so allows the Israelis to avoid bombing the Palestinians into splinters like the US at Dresden. It allows them to manage, contain, and avoid overt warfare in favor of spy-fare.

    Now, the cost of Spy-fare is the loss of civil liberties. But for a population that both wants no rockets (or here at home planes flying into buildings) and wants to avoid a massive conventional (or nuclear) war, its Spy-fare all the way down.

    I personally would prefer a permanent solution. Allowing Israel to kill say about 45% of male Palestinians between 14-45 (and about the same amount of women) to get a peace. Nothing causes peace like about almost half your male population DEAD. That is what brought the South to surrender. Or the Nazis. Or Japan. It tends to amplify the killing in giant wave, and then flatten out to peace for generations. But that's just me -- and the cost would pretty bad for the Palestinians.

    No one seriously endorses Derbyshire's Rubble Makes No Trouble for Afghanistan or the like, because the public recoils from images of dead civilians and kids in particular. Weepy sentimentalism -- those civilians would happily behead the public. But there it is. Why do you think planes stopped flying into buildings all of a sudden?

    Because the NSA spies on the entire world. All of it. Including us.

    Choose and be damned, as they say.

    Whiskey, I hope you really aren’t Jewish, because then I’d be related to you, and I don’t want that. I’m half-seriously considering converting to Christianity to give these people the finger–any suggestions here for recommended denominations?

    Exterminate half the Palestinians? If Israel and Palestine have a war, that’s their business, but we oughtn’t to be aiding and abetting it either way. I don’t think there’s really an ending to that conflict that doesn’t involve someone getting genocided, but it’s blood we don’t need on our hands as Americans. Stay out, and if Israel wants dirt from us, they gotta give us some in return on Russia or China.

    As for spiking Carl Cameron’s series? Whether Murdoch’s actually pro-Israel or just afraid of the other (Jewish) media moguls ganging up on him, I don’t know, and doubt I ever will.

  23. @Whiskey
    I honestly don't know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.

    First, Israel is almost certainly the "Sixth Eye" ... referring to the Five Eyes agreement that allows the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to spy on each others citizens and residents, to get around domestic spying restrictions. This dates to the start of the Cold War and was instrumental in stopping total Soviet Penetration of the Alliance (even so the Soviets had quite a lot of access to top secret info via traitors and paid informants).

    Morever, MASSIVE and I mean TRULY MASSIVE intelligence operations against the Palestinians is the only alternative to overt, and truly massive conventional warfare.

    This just in -- the Israeli public will not tolerate being rocketed with impunity. Their democratically elected governments are expected to stop it. Regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. If Bibi does not stop it, they'll elect someone else.

    Thus Bib, and no doubt other governments including LABOR have chosen the blackmail and ferreting out of secrets route rather than Dresden route. That's more humane for the Palestinians and cheaper for Israelis.

    But lets get real. Citizenism does not mean "well they are Palestinians and thus SACRED OTHERS so we have to just get rocketed because the Euros or Steve Sailer would not like it." It means Israelis come first.

    So why does the US continue to supply the Israelis with that info? I mean really the Obama Administration detests Israel and Bibi personally. So why? WHY do they hand over this info still?

    Because doing so allows the Israelis to avoid bombing the Palestinians into splinters like the US at Dresden. It allows them to manage, contain, and avoid overt warfare in favor of spy-fare.

    Now, the cost of Spy-fare is the loss of civil liberties. But for a population that both wants no rockets (or here at home planes flying into buildings) and wants to avoid a massive conventional (or nuclear) war, its Spy-fare all the way down.

    I personally would prefer a permanent solution. Allowing Israel to kill say about 45% of male Palestinians between 14-45 (and about the same amount of women) to get a peace. Nothing causes peace like about almost half your male population DEAD. That is what brought the South to surrender. Or the Nazis. Or Japan. It tends to amplify the killing in giant wave, and then flatten out to peace for generations. But that's just me -- and the cost would pretty bad for the Palestinians.

    No one seriously endorses Derbyshire's Rubble Makes No Trouble for Afghanistan or the like, because the public recoils from images of dead civilians and kids in particular. Weepy sentimentalism -- those civilians would happily behead the public. But there it is. Why do you think planes stopped flying into buildings all of a sudden?

    Because the NSA spies on the entire world. All of it. Including us.

    Choose and be damned, as they say.

    No one seriously endorses Derbyshire’s Rubble Makes No Trouble for Afghanistan or the like, because the public recoils from images of dead civilians and kids in particular.

    The public reacts to images, not numbers. Israel’s “bad PR” from the recent Gaza war would have been exactly the same with 200 or 20,000 deaths.

    Israelis have LOTS of people who speak Arabic and other dialects and we do not.

    Actually we have plenty of them. They tend to not be people we want to give security clearances to, like Major Nidal.

  24. As long as we’re being paranoid, I suggest a few facebook rules:

    1. Don’t post links to facebook pages here
    2. Always log out of facebook after using it, don’t just close the window.
    3. Don’t ever install a facebook “theme” or “plugin”
    4. Use firefox with adblock installed for most of your browsing and all of your facebooking

  25. The most recent test of support for Israel was the vote on additional Iron Dome funding. It passed the House 395-8 and the Senate by unanimous voice vote. Americans love Israel, no skulduggery is needed to get their congressmen to vote to support it in its struggle against the Gaza terrorists.

    If Steve’s blackmail hypothesis is true, we’d expect (1) formerly anti-Israel congressmen to occasionally and suddenly become pro-Israel after being blackmailed (2) random scandals to effect anti-Israel politicians more often than others.

    For #1, I can’t think of this ever happening.

    For #2, plenty of pro-Israel congressmen have been brought down by scandal, such as Anthony Wiener. Why didn’t the jewish media mafia suppress this?

    The most anti-Israel and pro-Arab politicians I can think of are Keith Ellison of Minnesota and former rep Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. McKinney lost a primary in part because of her antisemitism led to a strong primary challenge, but really what killed her career was assaulting a Capitol Police officer. She was last seen floating on one of those boats trying to run the Gaza blockade.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "The most anti-Israel and pro-Arab politicians I can think of are Keith Ellison of Minnesota and former rep Cynthia McKinney of Georgia."

    Haven't you kind of answered your own question there, when you note that 534 current members of Congress are less even-handed on Israel than former President Carter?
  26. Is anybody really surprised that Western countries trade intelligence on ISIS-supporting “Americans” and “Englishmen” like “Douglas McAuthur McCain“?

    • Replies: @HA
    "Is anybody really surprised that Western countries trade intelligence on ISIS-supporting “Americans” and “Englishmen” like “Douglas McAuthur McCain“?

    Some of the same voices complaining now will be heard again one day -- rambling about how the NSA was asleep at their terminals -- the next time some local jihadi slips past the peepholes and blows up something.
  27. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “I personally would prefer a permanent solution. Allowing Israel to kill say about 45% of male Palestinians between 14-45 (and about the same amount of women) to get a peace. “

    Steve, I’ve seen you disapprove comments that weren’t bloodthirsty at all. The above is essentially “Hitler was right about everything but his targets” stuff. And Whiskey would even agree about most of Hitler’s targets (think of his attitude to Russians).

    Do you approve such comments from Whiskey just because he’s a buffoon?

  28. @Lot
    The most recent test of support for Israel was the vote on additional Iron Dome funding. It passed the House 395-8 and the Senate by unanimous voice vote. Americans love Israel, no skulduggery is needed to get their congressmen to vote to support it in its struggle against the Gaza terrorists.

    If Steve's blackmail hypothesis is true, we'd expect (1) formerly anti-Israel congressmen to occasionally and suddenly become pro-Israel after being blackmailed (2) random scandals to effect anti-Israel politicians more often than others.

    For #1, I can't think of this ever happening.

    For #2, plenty of pro-Israel congressmen have been brought down by scandal, such as Anthony Wiener. Why didn't the jewish media mafia suppress this?

    The most anti-Israel and pro-Arab politicians I can think of are Keith Ellison of Minnesota and former rep Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. McKinney lost a primary in part because of her antisemitism led to a strong primary challenge, but really what killed her career was assaulting a Capitol Police officer. She was last seen floating on one of those boats trying to run the Gaza blockade.

    “The most anti-Israel and pro-Arab politicians I can think of are Keith Ellison of Minnesota and former rep Cynthia McKinney of Georgia.”

    Haven’t you kind of answered your own question there, when you note that 534 current members of Congress are less even-handed on Israel than former President Carter?

  29. @Anonymous
    Is anybody really surprised that Western countries trade intelligence on ISIS-supporting "Americans" and "Englishmen" like "Douglas McAuthur McCain"?

    “Is anybody really surprised that Western countries trade intelligence on ISIS-supporting “Americans” and “Englishmen” like “Douglas McAuthur McCain“?

    Some of the same voices complaining now will be heard again one day — rambling about how the NSA was asleep at their terminals — the next time some local jihadi slips past the peepholes and blows up something.

  30. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Regarding the possibility of blackmailing members of Congress one might keep in mind Elliot Spitzer. Some of these expensive and ‘discrete’ escort outfits might also be run by one foreign agency or another to snare influential people in and out of government. They don’t all just sleep only with their spouses. Who knows how much video is out there in various hands.

  31. Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies turn over material relating to Congress is absurdly paranoid. If there is one thing and only one thing that Congress cares about, Democrat and Republican, it is their private lives being kept private. As long as it affects them personally, they act. When after the Bork hearings Congress realized that anyone could look up their video tape rentals, they passed a law in virtually light speed , with zero thought, with draconian penalties, related to releasing this kind of information. Hulu is caught up in a lawsuit over this now (or they were) – due to marketing user preferences on movies. There is no chance any material on Congress is being turned over to anyone.

    If our intelligence turns over material on Palestinian Americans, it is because they see them as a threat to the security of the United States, and perhaps view them more like Muslims who just happen to get hold of a US passport, as opposed to US citizens. This would be more like Israelis turning over material – about Arab Israelis mixed up with ISIS or Al Qaeda – to the CIA. I am sure the Israelis would have no problem turning that over.

  32. @Whiskey
    I honestly don't know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.

    First, Israel is almost certainly the "Sixth Eye" ... referring to the Five Eyes agreement that allows the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand to spy on each others citizens and residents, to get around domestic spying restrictions. This dates to the start of the Cold War and was instrumental in stopping total Soviet Penetration of the Alliance (even so the Soviets had quite a lot of access to top secret info via traitors and paid informants).

    Morever, MASSIVE and I mean TRULY MASSIVE intelligence operations against the Palestinians is the only alternative to overt, and truly massive conventional warfare.

    This just in -- the Israeli public will not tolerate being rocketed with impunity. Their democratically elected governments are expected to stop it. Regardless of what happens to the Palestinians. If Bibi does not stop it, they'll elect someone else.

    Thus Bib, and no doubt other governments including LABOR have chosen the blackmail and ferreting out of secrets route rather than Dresden route. That's more humane for the Palestinians and cheaper for Israelis.

    But lets get real. Citizenism does not mean "well they are Palestinians and thus SACRED OTHERS so we have to just get rocketed because the Euros or Steve Sailer would not like it." It means Israelis come first.

    So why does the US continue to supply the Israelis with that info? I mean really the Obama Administration detests Israel and Bibi personally. So why? WHY do they hand over this info still?

    Because doing so allows the Israelis to avoid bombing the Palestinians into splinters like the US at Dresden. It allows them to manage, contain, and avoid overt warfare in favor of spy-fare.

    Now, the cost of Spy-fare is the loss of civil liberties. But for a population that both wants no rockets (or here at home planes flying into buildings) and wants to avoid a massive conventional (or nuclear) war, its Spy-fare all the way down.

    I personally would prefer a permanent solution. Allowing Israel to kill say about 45% of male Palestinians between 14-45 (and about the same amount of women) to get a peace. Nothing causes peace like about almost half your male population DEAD. That is what brought the South to surrender. Or the Nazis. Or Japan. It tends to amplify the killing in giant wave, and then flatten out to peace for generations. But that's just me -- and the cost would pretty bad for the Palestinians.

    No one seriously endorses Derbyshire's Rubble Makes No Trouble for Afghanistan or the like, because the public recoils from images of dead civilians and kids in particular. Weepy sentimentalism -- those civilians would happily behead the public. But there it is. Why do you think planes stopped flying into buildings all of a sudden?

    Because the NSA spies on the entire world. All of it. Including us.

    Choose and be damned, as they say.

    Is this the Scotch or the Irish side talking, Whiskey?

  33. @Silicon Valley Dinosaur
    You can bet that we're not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back.

    We can only dream of such a partnership with Somalia or Yemen, to help us keep tabs on their nationals in the US.

    >You can bet that we’re not giving Israel this data, without getting something of equal value back.

    A safe haven for Jewish-American criminals to hide from American justice?

    http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=15247

  34. “Steve (not Sailer) says:

    Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies turn over material relating to Congress is absurdly paranoid.”

    You are a naive fool. The purpose of gathering intelligence is to influence people. With Snowden’s revalations that the NSA is essentially spying on everybody, one has to assume that blackmail has become a significant driver of American politics. If they are spying on everybody, wouldn’t they pay extra attention to those people who wield actual power and influence within the halls of government.

  35. “countenance says: •

    There are probably several other better explanations, not the least are Christian Zionism and fundamentalist dispensationalism being popular in parts of the USA but hardly anywhere else.”

    Actually, blackmail seems like a pretty good explanation to me.

  36. “Lot says:

    The most recent test of support for Israel was the vote on additional Iron Dome funding. It passed the House 395-8 and the Senate by unanimous voice vote. Americans love Israel,……………”

    Yeah, we just love that little country. After all, it’s been so good to us. Some Americans seem to love Israel. Do you think perhaps the fact that virtually the entire news media shouts at the top of its lungs in one voice that we must – MUST! – love and support Israel as if it were our own country?

  37. “Lot says:

    For #2, plenty of pro-Israel congressmen have been brought down by scandal, such as Anthony Wiener. Why didn’t the jewish media mafia suppress this?”

    Because he was an embarrassing jerk. It is not worth defending eveyone who is nominally on your side. The guy who replaced him, Bob Turner, seems to have been reliably pro-Israel.

  38. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies turn over material relating to Congress is absurdly paranoid. If there is one thing and only one thing that Congress cares about, Democrat and Republican, it is their private lives being kept private.”

    “I, sitting at my desk [could] wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email.”
    -Snowden

    No oversight. No application process. No review. These guys spied on their ex-girlfriends and routinely passed around nude pics.

    You’re very naive.

    • Replies: @Handle
    Actually Anonymous, you are the one who is very naive, and who, indeed, has completely swallowed the baited hook put out for people just like you. Snowden never had access to any communications intercept capability and this false claim is made up.
  39. I know about the U.S. relationship with the Israelis, but I don’t know anything about how and why the higher-ups at Fox make decisions, or who talks to them and has influence over these decisions, so I can only speculate on the basis of some reasonable and plausible guesses related to the quality of the work and which don’t require some kind of internationally unique level of corruption of the workings of the U.S. intelligence and national security apparatus. That’s the allegation that is being implied here, but that accusation is false.

    Indeed, what is ironic about it is that reciprocal disclosure policies and partnerships with Israel are at a much lower and more restricted level than with other countries of even greater capability, and about which much more shocking exposes could be produced regarding their U.S.-directed espionage activity, and equally so regarding U.S. activities against them. And yet they are still our closest allies, because everyone understands that this is how the game is played. By every one. The Israelis are hardly angels, but then again, no one else is either.

    It seems to me that the report was simply too speculative and inflammatory to be as unsubstantiated and uncorroborated as it was, and that it shows far too many of the typical indicators and tell-tale signs of being a sloppy hatchet job. Indeed, some of its claims are demonstrably false and misleading, and this is an inherent problem with journalism regarding classified matters in which the biases and imaginations of reporters are free to run wild and the typical standards of rigor – even the already very low bar of cable television news – are abandoned with the rationalization of necessity.

    The key allegations seem to be that, “… Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the [9/11] attacks in advance and not shared it,” (even though they warned U.S. officials that they had worries), and that Israeli companies have voice intercept backdoors and are leaking U.S. phone call metadata to the Israeli government and criminal organizations and even 9/11 suspects.

    As to the first allegation, the obvious inference that the reporter hopes his audience will draw is that the Israelis – alone amongst all the other countries who conduct espionage in the U.S. – knew about 9/11 in advance and let it happen anyway because they perceived it would be in their national interest, “.. ‘ … how could they not have known?’ almost a direct quote.”

    I don’t know about you, but if I were a Fox producer and heard that line in one of my investigative series, I’d want to have a much more solid case than that which was presented before I threw that kind of accusation around against anybody, friend or foe. Regardless, it turns out that inference is false and an act of slander on someone’s part, whether the reporter or his source. I’d guess when the producer asked for something more solid, Cameron couldn’t deliver.

    As to the second allegation, it turns out it also misleading or false. The inference is that higher-ups in the U.S. government know the general telecom system is insecure and let it happen anyways and quash any investigation getting too close to the truth because they are just completely owned by the Israelis. Just plain wrong, and demonstrative of a real ignorance as to how the government works or what is even possible. Furthermore, and contrary to the implication from the transcript, all foreign telecom equipment into the U.S. sensitive supply chain is thoroughly tested (how do you think they caught Huawei?), and the NCIJTF (that Chantilly office) is always agitated about that threat – that’s part of their job.

    By focusing only on Amdocs and Comverse, the reported makes it seem as if the Israelis are alone in the foreign-owned telecom space or uniquely culpable, but that’s not true. A good example of another company could be Telcordia, which is now owned by Swedish Ericsson after the CFIUS gave its blessing, and which, like Amdocs, has been the subject of prudent and routine investigations at the close of which they were exonerated of any misbehavior for lack of evidence.

    And as for “… some American terrorist investigators fear certain suspects in the Sept. 11 attacks may have managed to stay ahead of them by …” [getting tips from the Israelis] … that is designed specifically to inflame emotions through creative subtle hedging and amounts to little less than agitprop. And, of course we now know that the accusation was completely baseless.

    Look, I understand you don’t know me from Adam (though you have an open invitation to visit me if you like), so why should you take my word for it? And obviously I’m not going to disclose or hand you anything sensitive. Conspiracies do exist in this world and you’re right to say that the ‘conspiracy nut’ accusation is too often abused, but that just makes it all the more difficult for someone to dispel an erroneous hypothesis, especially when it seems to match up with a lot of other facts one knows about the way our world works. All I can say is that this is coming from a friend who respects and admires you a great deal, and finds you insightful and correct on most matters with an incredible track record of accuracy. Just not on this subject; sorry.

  40. @Anonymous
    "Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies turn over material relating to Congress is absurdly paranoid. If there is one thing and only one thing that Congress cares about, Democrat and Republican, it is their private lives being kept private."




    "I, sitting at my desk [could] wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email."
    -Snowden

    No oversight. No application process. No review. These guys spied on their ex-girlfriends and routinely passed around nude pics.

    You're very naive.

    Actually Anonymous, you are the one who is very naive, and who, indeed, has completely swallowed the baited hook put out for people just like you. Snowden never had access to any communications intercept capability and this false claim is made up.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That most pointless of internet entities: he who responds to a sourced claim with an unsourced assertion.

    "Look, I understand you don’t know me from Adam"

    You're an anon. Making a string of unsourced (and implausible) assertions. And then inviting the site host to "visit you".

    It's like posting on a Wall Street board about getting rich by choosing lottery tickets based on numerology, and then inviting Zuck over for brunch. You're Dunning-Kruger in action.

  41. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Handle
    Actually Anonymous, you are the one who is very naive, and who, indeed, has completely swallowed the baited hook put out for people just like you. Snowden never had access to any communications intercept capability and this false claim is made up.

    That most pointless of internet entities: he who responds to a sourced claim with an unsourced assertion.

    “Look, I understand you don’t know me from Adam”

    You’re an anon. Making a string of unsourced (and implausible) assertions. And then inviting the site host to “visit you”.

    It’s like posting on a Wall Street board about getting rich by choosing lottery tickets based on numerology, and then inviting Zuck over for brunch. You’re Dunning-Kruger in action.

    • Replies: @Handle
    Fair enough; it's perfectly legitimate for you to ask me to prove my claim insofar as any person can without running afoul of the law.

    First, let me make clear what that claim is. Snowden's role at NSA was as a sysadmin at Kunia, nothing more. Before that he was just a sysadmin at CIA (from which he under investigation for getting caught trying to modify his crummy evaluation report) - totally support staff. His claim that "I was a spy, and given the same training spies get" is totally misleading and bogus. He was in no way involved in working human sources or collecting intelligence or any direct espionage; he was tech support. Just because he was given some instructions on how to lead a life with alternative credentials abroad that wouldn't tip off foreigners to the true identity of his employer does not, in any way, make him a 'spy'.

    He has access to JWICS, like anyone with a TS/SCI, but nothing more. That's still a lot! But what it does NOT give him access to would be anything that would substantiate some of the other bogus claims he's made. It doesn't give him SAP or STO or ECI's or any of the other administrative data systems - and that's a very good thing. You can verify this by noticing that nothing that has been released is from those systems. I will bet you whatever figure you name that in whatever documents are still to be released, data and caveats from no other systems will be available.

    And what that also means is that Snowden was never QUATTRO, and he was never cleared for anything in the SIGINT production chain, which means he never got anywhere near any ability to task the cryptological platform or query any database. In other words, when he says, “I, sitting at my desk [could] wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email,” he's full of BS on many, many levels.

    Again, don't take my word for it. Snowden stole thousands and thousands of documents and reports, only a few of which have been publicized. Again, I will bet you whatever figure you name that not a single one that will ever be divulged contains any trace of Raw SIGINT, and that's because he never saw the stuff. He was geek squad; that's all.

    His whole narrative that he's sketched - with plenty of help from his journalist pals - is precisely tailored and concocted in a manner by which he is trying to paint himself in the most sympathetic possible light. That means he has to present himself as a whistle-blower of extra-legal wrongdoing instead of a mere spiller of secret beans. Guess what: it's just secret beans. He has to make these allegations as if abuse and trampling over rights and evasion of legal constraints is easy and happens all the time and anybody can and does do it without any effective oversight. Come on. Anyone who believes that simply doesn't know anything about how the U.S. government really works. The irony here is that throughout the whole system, the compliance culture at the agency he betrayed is the strongest in the government.
  42. I’m assuming Handle is the Handle who runs the outstanding blog

    http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/

    So, he’s earned a high degree of credibility.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Skimming it, I'll agree that it appears to be a coherent, Moldbug-style collection of tracts, and your vouching for his quality does much to carry him as more than a homo novus.

    That being said, with no source for the assertion that Snowden is simply lying, I see no cause to be more impressed with such an assertion from Handle than the same assertion from Clapper.
  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I'm assuming Handle is the Handle who runs the outstanding blog

    http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/

    So, he's earned a high degree of credibility.

    Skimming it, I’ll agree that it appears to be a coherent, Moldbug-style collection of tracts, and your vouching for his quality does much to carry him as more than a homo novus.

    That being said, with no source for the assertion that Snowden is simply lying, I see no cause to be more impressed with such an assertion from Handle than the same assertion from Clapper.

  44. […] Steve Sailer Bamford in NYT: “Israel’s NSA Scandal” […]

  45. @Anonymous
    That most pointless of internet entities: he who responds to a sourced claim with an unsourced assertion.

    "Look, I understand you don’t know me from Adam"

    You're an anon. Making a string of unsourced (and implausible) assertions. And then inviting the site host to "visit you".

    It's like posting on a Wall Street board about getting rich by choosing lottery tickets based on numerology, and then inviting Zuck over for brunch. You're Dunning-Kruger in action.

    Fair enough; it’s perfectly legitimate for you to ask me to prove my claim insofar as any person can without running afoul of the law.

    First, let me make clear what that claim is. Snowden’s role at NSA was as a sysadmin at Kunia, nothing more. Before that he was just a sysadmin at CIA (from which he under investigation for getting caught trying to modify his crummy evaluation report) – totally support staff. His claim that “I was a spy, and given the same training spies get” is totally misleading and bogus. He was in no way involved in working human sources or collecting intelligence or any direct espionage; he was tech support. Just because he was given some instructions on how to lead a life with alternative credentials abroad that wouldn’t tip off foreigners to the true identity of his employer does not, in any way, make him a ‘spy’.

    He has access to JWICS, like anyone with a TS/SCI, but nothing more. That’s still a lot! But what it does NOT give him access to would be anything that would substantiate some of the other bogus claims he’s made. It doesn’t give him SAP or STO or ECI’s or any of the other administrative data systems – and that’s a very good thing. You can verify this by noticing that nothing that has been released is from those systems. I will bet you whatever figure you name that in whatever documents are still to be released, data and caveats from no other systems will be available.

    And what that also means is that Snowden was never QUATTRO, and he was never cleared for anything in the SIGINT production chain, which means he never got anywhere near any ability to task the cryptological platform or query any database. In other words, when he says, “I, sitting at my desk [could] wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email,” he’s full of BS on many, many levels.

    Again, don’t take my word for it. Snowden stole thousands and thousands of documents and reports, only a few of which have been publicized. Again, I will bet you whatever figure you name that not a single one that will ever be divulged contains any trace of Raw SIGINT, and that’s because he never saw the stuff. He was geek squad; that’s all.

    His whole narrative that he’s sketched – with plenty of help from his journalist pals – is precisely tailored and concocted in a manner by which he is trying to paint himself in the most sympathetic possible light. That means he has to present himself as a whistle-blower of extra-legal wrongdoing instead of a mere spiller of secret beans. Guess what: it’s just secret beans. He has to make these allegations as if abuse and trampling over rights and evasion of legal constraints is easy and happens all the time and anybody can and does do it without any effective oversight. Come on. Anyone who believes that simply doesn’t know anything about how the U.S. government really works. The irony here is that throughout the whole system, the compliance culture at the agency he betrayed is the strongest in the government.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    His claim, however, isn't that he himself is releasing sigint, or for that matter that he gathered it.

    An indication we have of the veracity of his actual claims is the many cases of LOVEINT, where NSA have been caught spying on email accounts and phone lines of their spouses, girlfriends, or mistresses - several going on for 5+ years, and some only being discovered when someone outside the NSA reported them, and even then only after further years of apparently difficult investigation.

    As Snowden quotably claims, this implies that oversight is "incredibly weak".


    "An investigation revealed that over a period of five years, the employee had unlawfully monitored nine phone numbers associated with female foreign nationals. In each of these three cases there was no prosecution or disciplinary action taken because the NSA staff involved in the abuses resigned."

     
    It's all out there, in the letter from NSA Inspector General George Ellard about LOVEINT. This particular type of oversight breach is so common that they have a name for it.

    These freely admitted oversight breaches are a vindication of what Snowden and Tice claim about the very weak oversight - the "oversight" allows you to monitor your spouse and boyfriend (sometimes people sharing your surname and address) for half a decade without red flags being raised. There's no reason to expect that Ted Haggards gay lover is safe from being mined for blackmail material.

    As Binney said about what happened to Petraeus:


    If you ever get on their enemies list, like Petraeus did, then you can be drawn into that surveillance.
     
    Binney, former head of the National Security Agency’s global digital data gathering program, has consistently backed Snowden in the above claims, as do the other major NSA leakers, Drake and Wiebe.

    The oversight is weak, to imagine otherwise is naive.

  46. “Handle says:

    Again, don’t take my word for it.”

    I won’t.

  47. “HA says:

    Some of the same voices complaining now will be heard again one day — rambling about how the NSA was asleep at their terminals — the next time some local jihadi slips past the peepholes and blows up something.”

    The only thing the 9/11 hijackers slipped by was the arrival gate at Newark. The war against terrorism could be won, but is being lost, at the airport, and at the consulates where visas are issued. By the simple expedient of not letting people who obviously hate us into the country, we could be much safer against the odd terrorist incident.

  48. “Anonymous says:

    Is anybody really surprised that Western countries trade intelligence on ISIS-supporting “Americans” and “Englishmen” like “Douglas McAuthur McCain“?

    I wonder: do they trade intelligence on Al-Qaeda supporting Americans like Senator John McCain?

  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Handle
    Fair enough; it's perfectly legitimate for you to ask me to prove my claim insofar as any person can without running afoul of the law.

    First, let me make clear what that claim is. Snowden's role at NSA was as a sysadmin at Kunia, nothing more. Before that he was just a sysadmin at CIA (from which he under investigation for getting caught trying to modify his crummy evaluation report) - totally support staff. His claim that "I was a spy, and given the same training spies get" is totally misleading and bogus. He was in no way involved in working human sources or collecting intelligence or any direct espionage; he was tech support. Just because he was given some instructions on how to lead a life with alternative credentials abroad that wouldn't tip off foreigners to the true identity of his employer does not, in any way, make him a 'spy'.

    He has access to JWICS, like anyone with a TS/SCI, but nothing more. That's still a lot! But what it does NOT give him access to would be anything that would substantiate some of the other bogus claims he's made. It doesn't give him SAP or STO or ECI's or any of the other administrative data systems - and that's a very good thing. You can verify this by noticing that nothing that has been released is from those systems. I will bet you whatever figure you name that in whatever documents are still to be released, data and caveats from no other systems will be available.

    And what that also means is that Snowden was never QUATTRO, and he was never cleared for anything in the SIGINT production chain, which means he never got anywhere near any ability to task the cryptological platform or query any database. In other words, when he says, “I, sitting at my desk [could] wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email,” he's full of BS on many, many levels.

    Again, don't take my word for it. Snowden stole thousands and thousands of documents and reports, only a few of which have been publicized. Again, I will bet you whatever figure you name that not a single one that will ever be divulged contains any trace of Raw SIGINT, and that's because he never saw the stuff. He was geek squad; that's all.

    His whole narrative that he's sketched - with plenty of help from his journalist pals - is precisely tailored and concocted in a manner by which he is trying to paint himself in the most sympathetic possible light. That means he has to present himself as a whistle-blower of extra-legal wrongdoing instead of a mere spiller of secret beans. Guess what: it's just secret beans. He has to make these allegations as if abuse and trampling over rights and evasion of legal constraints is easy and happens all the time and anybody can and does do it without any effective oversight. Come on. Anyone who believes that simply doesn't know anything about how the U.S. government really works. The irony here is that throughout the whole system, the compliance culture at the agency he betrayed is the strongest in the government.

    His claim, however, isn’t that he himself is releasing sigint, or for that matter that he gathered it.

    An indication we have of the veracity of his actual claims is the many cases of LOVEINT, where NSA have been caught spying on email accounts and phone lines of their spouses, girlfriends, or mistresses – several going on for 5+ years, and some only being discovered when someone outside the NSA reported them, and even then only after further years of apparently difficult investigation.

    As Snowden quotably claims, this implies that oversight is “incredibly weak”.

    “An investigation revealed that over a period of five years, the employee had unlawfully monitored nine phone numbers associated with female foreign nationals. In each of these three cases there was no prosecution or disciplinary action taken because the NSA staff involved in the abuses resigned.”

    It’s all out there, in the letter from NSA Inspector General George Ellard about LOVEINT. This particular type of oversight breach is so common that they have a name for it.

    These freely admitted oversight breaches are a vindication of what Snowden and Tice claim about the very weak oversight – the “oversight” allows you to monitor your spouse and boyfriend (sometimes people sharing your surname and address) for half a decade without red flags being raised. There’s no reason to expect that Ted Haggards gay lover is safe from being mined for blackmail material.

    As Binney said about what happened to Petraeus:

    If you ever get on their enemies list, like Petraeus did, then you can be drawn into that surveillance.

    Binney, former head of the National Security Agency’s global digital data gathering program, has consistently backed Snowden in the above claims, as do the other major NSA leakers, Drake and Wiebe.

    The oversight is weak, to imagine otherwise is naive.

  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    RUSSELL TICE: We now know that NSA was wiretapping [Senator] Frank Church and another Senator. [That has been confirmed.]
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/12/nsa-blackmailing-overseers-washington.html

    And that got out by accident. All the information the NSA had back then – and probably many other senators and important people too, back in the 70s – they shredded and they destroyed all of that evidence. As much as they could find, they destroyed it all. By accident, something popped up 40 years later.

    And, in fact, they were asked 40 years ago whether NSA had bugged Congress. And, of course, they lied. They lied through their teeth.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/nsa-whistleblower-snowden-never-had-access-to-the-juiciest-intelligence-documents/5386231

    For what it’s worth, the other major whistleblowers like Tice agree that Snowden was accessing non-sigint, as a non-analyst. But they don’t postulate that Snowden claims otherwise.

    Snowden’s Failure To Understand the Most Important Documents

    RUSSELL TICE: Now, if Mr. Snowden were to find the crossover, it would be those documents that were downgraded to the NSA’s IG.

    The stuff that I saw looked like a bunch of alphanumeric gobbledygook. Unless you have an analyst to know what to look for – and believe me, I think that what Snowden’s done is great – he’s not an intelligence analyst. So he would see something like that, and he wouldn’t know what he’s looking at.

    Snowden and Greenwald’s Whistleblowing Was Done In the Right Way

    RUSSELL TICE: If Mr. Snowden would have had access to VRK, ECI, SAP, STO (and a few others that I will not mention here), and he released them en masse to the press, I would volunteer to shoot him as a traitor myself.

    But this is not what he did.

    He gave up JWICS info that he insisted be vetted for sources and methods, and true damage to national security. Mr. Greenwald and company should be congratulated on the restraint that they have shown with the JWICS documentation that they have in hand via Mr. Snowden.

  51. “Whiskey says:

    I honestly don’t know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.”

    Yet, we all know why YOU have a problem with Steve having a problem with it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I honestly don’t know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.
     

    "Yet, we all know why YOU have a problem with Steve having a problem with it."

     

    Whiskey is a 2.0 version of the arab, and proud of out-semiting the arabs.

    "Honestly", he asks, "why have a problem with blackmail, if it's good semites blackmailing the bad semites? Who? Whom? What's the problem?"
  52. “Anonymous says:

    There’s no reason to expect that Ted Haggards gay lover is safe from being mined for blackmail material.”

    Or Lindsey Graham’s.

  53. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon
    "Whiskey says:

    I honestly don’t know why YOU have a problem with this Steve."

    Yet, we all know why YOU have a problem with Steve having a problem with it.

    I honestly don’t know why YOU have a problem with this Steve.

    “Yet, we all know why YOU have a problem with Steve having a problem with it.”

    Whiskey is a 2.0 version of the arab, and proud of out-semiting the arabs.

    “Honestly”, he asks, “why have a problem with blackmail, if it’s good semites blackmailing the bad semites? Who? Whom? What’s the problem?”

  54. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You know, if Israel’s Unit 8200 is spying on the sex lives of Palestinian-Americans, how do we know they’re not also spying on the sex lives of Congressman-Americans?

    That’s crazy talk. Even more crazy is how an Israeli telecom company is contracted to perform billing services for the majority of US-based telecom providers whose customers include the US government.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    an Israeli telecom company is contracted to perform billing services for the majority of US-based telecom providers
     
    And a majority of European telecom providers.
    , @Bill Jones
    They are

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents
  55. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Whenever Whiskey writes a comment like that one, I'm reminded of why these guys don't belong. Just another semite tribe.

    Right, we do need to discriminate more on race. That means we
    need to start discriminating against the Israelis.

    This. A million times this. The other semitic groups would be dragging us in and mooching and spying and "dual-loyalty"-ing as well, if they could. But we treat them with due suspicion and discrimination, so they can't. If we applied due discrimination against Israelis, they'd be powerless to suck us into their "they started it first" nonsense, what a shameful waste. What we could do with all that wealth, if we weren't pissing the arab world off defending that shitty little country.

    The U.S. would still be involved in the Middle East because of the need to guarantee the supply of cheap oil for itself and its trading partners. The U.S. government intervened in internal political affairs in Iran in the 1950’s for just that reason. At the time, the relationship between the U.S. government and Israel wasn’t close.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Arguments that we aren't involved in the middle east wars largely due to Israeli goading are equivalent to arguments that we aren't involved in Ferguson due to media goading.

    Yes, there were cases of wars in the 60's that weren't entirely Israel motivated. And there were Ferguson type racial unrest events in the 60's which weren't media creations.

    But 60 years ago is infinitely different from the present. In the 60's, the activities of the Office of Special Plans would have invitated Rosenberg-style trials. Now, the OSP's slither back alongside Victoria Nuland under the sheltering wing of the new "elite", to engineer yet another war in Iran or Syria.

  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    The U.S. would still be involved in the Middle East because of the need to guarantee the supply of cheap oil for itself and its trading partners. The U.S. government intervened in internal political affairs in Iran in the 1950's for just that reason. At the time, the relationship between the U.S. government and Israel wasn't close.

    Arguments that we aren’t involved in the middle east wars largely due to Israeli goading are equivalent to arguments that we aren’t involved in Ferguson due to media goading.

    Yes, there were cases of wars in the 60’s that weren’t entirely Israel motivated. And there were Ferguson type racial unrest events in the 60’s which weren’t media creations.

    But 60 years ago is infinitely different from the present. In the 60’s, the activities of the Office of Special Plans would have invitated Rosenberg-style trials. Now, the OSP’s slither back alongside Victoria Nuland under the sheltering wing of the new “elite”, to engineer yet another war in Iran or Syria.

  57. @Anonymous
    You know, if Israel’s Unit 8200 is spying on the sex lives of Palestinian-Americans, how do we know they’re not also spying on the sex lives of Congressman-Americans?

    That's crazy talk. Even more crazy is how an Israeli telecom company is contracted to perform billing services for the majority of US-based telecom providers whose customers include the US government.

    an Israeli telecom company is contracted to perform billing services for the majority of US-based telecom providers

    And a majority of European telecom providers.

  58. @Anonymous
    You know, if Israel’s Unit 8200 is spying on the sex lives of Palestinian-Americans, how do we know they’re not also spying on the sex lives of Congressman-Americans?

    That's crazy talk. Even more crazy is how an Israeli telecom company is contracted to perform billing services for the majority of US-based telecom providers whose customers include the US government.
  59. @Steve Sailer
    Then why spike Carl Cameron's series on Fox News?

    Look for it on YouTube

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