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Avigdor Lieberman: "Hey, Donald, Let's You and Vlad Fight"
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Soviet Union-born Israeli defense minister Avigdor Lieberman is a big fan of Putin and often encourages Bibi to get cozier with Vlad. But Putin propping up the Iranian-allied Syrian regime has made things awkward for Lieberman. So he’s apparently got a solution: to keep Israel on good terms with Russia, the U.S. must stay in Syria and risk fighting Russia. From the Los Angeles Times:

Israel faces blowback from suspected role in Syria strike
By NOGA TARNOPOLSKY
APR 10, 2018 | 2:55 PM

Israel faced international blowback on Tuesday over the bombardment of Syria’s largest air base, a center for the Iranian military effort to support Syrian President Bashar Assad. Although it has not acknowledged a role in the attack, Israel is widely believed to have carried it out.

Lebanon announced it would complain to the United Nations about the “Israeli intrusion” into its airspace. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov described the strike as “a dangerous development” in the Syrian civil war, now in its eighth year, and Israel’s ambassador to Russia, Gary Koren, was summoned to the Foreign Ministry in Moscow for a rebuke.

The bombing of the air base, known as T4, came the day after reports emerged from Syria of a suspected chemical weapon attack on civilians in Damascus’ rebel-held suburb of Duma. It was unclear whether there was any connection between the two events. …

As is customary, Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing. But on a visit to an emergency command center along Israel’s northern border with Syria, Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman alluded to Israel’s concerns over Iran’s entrenchment in Syria and its fear that President Trump may order the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the country, as he has proposed.

Israel views Iran as its greatest enemy, and a nuclear-armed Iran as an existential threat.

“I don’t know what happened there and who attacked,” Lieberman said of the Syrian strike. “I know one thing with certainty: We will not allow the Iranians to establish themselves in Syria, whatever the price may be. We have no other choice.”

Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”

Eliot Higgins, the founder of the investigative reporting site Bellingcat, said in an interview that, in addition to a strictly military purpose, bombing T4 may serve as an Israeli signal to a wavering Trump that it is possible to respond militarily against Russia and Syria in the Syrian arena.

This, he says, is what drew Russian ire. “Russia clearly sees it as a threat,” he said.

Trump has said he will make a “major decision” in the next day about how to react to the suspected chemical attack. The White House has not commented specifically about the apparent Israeli airstrike. In Israel, there is concern that the country’s traditional allies are not speaking out in support of its position. …

If Trump withdraws U.S. troops from Syria, [Alex Grinberg] added, it will be “a real gain” for Assad, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Iran’s Khamenei.

 
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  1. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”

    Only reason Iran(along with Russia) is in Syria is because Israel, Saudis, US, and Turkey aided the ‘rebels’ and Jihadis. If the war ends, Iranians can leave.

    The guy is full of crap.

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bartok

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.
     
    They also tremble with fear, glow with pride, kvetch with infinite self-pity, etc., etc., etc. They are voluble.

    It would be great if those energetic, voluble, competent Israelis could be given a contract to build the Trump Wall. Bibi could be appointed U.S. Wall Czar, after he is ousted from his current office by the Israeli justice system. One can dream.
    , @IHTG

    If the war ends, Iranians can leave.
     
    lmaoooo
    , @Karl
    1 anon > If the war ends, Iranians can leave


    if 10,000 Somalis get settled in your neighborhood, they "could" turn out to be a tremendous asset
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  2. Trump has been a shockingly weak president. Lacking any real principles and easily swayed by whoever talked to him last. Pathetic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bartok

    Trump has been a shockingly weak president. Lacking any real principles and easily swayed by whoever talked to him last. Pathetic.
     
    For 10+ years Trump tried to buy the site for Trump Tower. Nothing happened and he was a complete failure, a bridge-and-tunnel jamoke. Then the site came available and Trump built his tower.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Trump has been a shockingly weak president.
     
    Right. Unlike Obama, whose strength plunged the Middle East into serial civil wars and unleashed the migration that will have Islamified Europe. Or GW Bush, who didn't wait around for a civil war to start - he launched it himself.
    , @Colleen Pater
    somewhat fair but few presidents have had even the grasp of world affairs the average political junkie has they all rely on advisors. Trumps gut instincts so enraged the inner/outer party that their were no advisors to be had except those that were entryists pretending to give hime fair and balanced options while in fact feeding him more deep state ultimatums. At least trump has exposed that there is only one party and its called the deep state and it will stop at nothing to have its way. My guess is hes a little suspicious at this second well timed ''ga attack''' just as he again calls for a pullout. But they have done a good job of deceiving him and he is keeping his eyes open and if he can act their will be hell to pay. the day before this he had just screamed his head off at his nat sec team that he wasnt going to be rick rolled again on syria. For a time i thought maybe they had the goods on him like obama and bush mccain etc but it seems they dont and are getting more desperate and obvious, two days ago tucker carlson humiliated a gop senator and all but declared proven that the cia or israel had done this gas attack if it had even happened at all.polls show the people dont believe this crap for a minute and even if true dont care.
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  3. The analysis explains Lieberman but not Israel or the situation. The best explanations are still that it’s the pipelines and positioning for future dominance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TheBoom
    There does seem to be a real blackout on the pipelines. The pipelines (along with doing what Israel wants) provide a more logical version of Occam's Razor than the normal narratives as to why a war with Syria is just who we are.
    , @utu

    it’s the pipelines and positioning for future dominance
     
    Pipelines, oil, gold or whatever of material nature are the 2nd tier justifications for the wars in the ME. They are for the people who are too savvy who do not believe the news that the war is about the weapons of mass destruction or bringing democracy and saving women and children. In this group are also people who believe that wars are good for economy or at least for the MIC. They are cynical and pragmatic people like Texan oilmen and military contractors who will support these wars just for these reasons and various leftists will oppose these wars for the same reason. But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel. The planned and desired outcome of the wars are weakened and balkanized states w/o ability to create functioning state and society. No schools, no hospitals, no factories, no army, no infrastructure but just chaos with tribal and sectarian fighting which can be fueled by supporting the faction opposing to the one that is about to solidify power. This can go ad infinitum.
    , @Anon
    Google 'Genie Energy' if you want to know what Israel's skin in the game here is.

    TLDR: Massive oil play discovered in the Golan heights. Too bad they don't technically own it, and with a strong and united Syria the Israeli's probably would not be able to legally exploit and develop the resource. It's a huge play-- enough for decades of energy at Israel's current rate of consumption.

    For laughs, look up the board of directors. I don't know how to post images on here or else I would do it myself. It's basically 'Theranos meets the Bush Boys.'

    https://www.upi.com/Energy-News/2015/10/09/Major-reserve-discovery-confirmed-in-Golan-Heights/6461444389373/

    http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-grants-golan-heights-oil-license-2013-2

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ngos-golan-oil-drilling-illegal-1.5409304

    It's so blatant that they are willing to get Americans and Russians killed so they can drill in stolen land that I'm actually pulling for the Iranians now.

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  4. Anon[304] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: It turns out the most popular Black Lives Matter Facebook donation page was a scam run by a white Aussie guy. The main BLM had contacted Facebook months ago with concerns about the site, and got ignored.

    Zuckerberg is really going down in flames. By now, the left hates his guts. I’m sure he was hoping for the Democratic nomination, but it’s never going to happen now.

    I’ve concluded the Deep State doesn’t want Zuck in office, which is why they’re turning on him. Under Obama, various government departments got used to running things their own way and building up their own little fiefdoms. They last guy they want as president is Mr. Spy-In-Chief. Zuckerberg is both energetic and nosy, and that’s a combination distressing to Deep State types who want to be left alone to plot their skullduggery in peace. They don’t want Zuck popping up behind their shoulders and saying, “Now what are you doing there?” They also, after Trump, don’t want any more outsiders to gain the presidency. They want someone who thinks like themselves, a tame professional politician, and not some guy who thinks for himself and fundamentally disagrees with their policies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Lots of hostile leftist reaction to Ted Cruz asking about the bias against conservatives on Zuckbook. No matter how right he is, this will be perceived as whining, and thus a demonstration of weakness.

    I did enjoy seeing Zuckborg admit that the Silicon Dons are "extremely left-wing". The Right needs to end its oligarch worship, they are rent seekers not job creators.

    The normie median voter has nil concern for us, and most conservatives still view "regulation" as a four-letter-word, "nationalization" might as well be viewed as fighting words.

    We are expected to bootstrap our own platforms such as this one, Gab and others.
    , @Lot
    I am taking a bath on my Zuck for President bet. He has gone from 5% to win the Dem nomination to 1 or 2%.

    Still playing with house money, won a lot betting that Trump would win Georgia, NC, and Utah. Didn't have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.

    Currently I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won't, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment. There are about 12 easy Dem pickups, but beyond that I mostly see some pretty solidly GOP seats, and most Democrats are not Conor Lamb. I read an estimate that the House is so gerrymandered the Dems could need to win the House popular vote by 11. They have been even higher than that in some polls, but not on average. Other estimates are lower than 11, and these are mostly before PA was remapped.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe

    I’ve concluded the Deep State doesn’t want Zuck in office, which is why they’re turning on him.
     
    Your theory makes perfect sense except for one vital caveat: I'm pretty sure you're one of the relatively few people who ever believed Mark Zuckerberg was a potential future President. There's no way he could ever be nominated, let alone win the general election.
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  5. Anonymous[242] • Disclaimer says:

    I wish my White people could be just a little more street smart. They wouldn’t haven fallen for all these cons over the years.

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    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
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  6. Other than the quote from “Elliot Higgins” of the website “Bellingcat,” I don’t see any support in this article for your headline and first paragraph. Time and again, it has been the USA restraining Israel against pounding down its enemies, not the other way around.

    I keep hearing from anti-Israel sources that Israel prefers an ISIS win and the USA just does whatever Israel wants. But what actually happened in Syria and Iraq lately is we went in heavy against ISIS with thousands of ground troops and heavy bombing, while supporting Iraq’s Iran-proxy Shiite government and pin-pricking Iran-proxy Assad.

    I think the best US policy is getting out if Syria and leaving it to the Turks and Russians, and for Israel to try to work out its problems with Iran the way they gradually have done with the Gulf states and Egypt. The long term goal is a free hand in the West Bank and to expel militant Muslim citizens of Israel, not an unwinnable war, cold or hot, with the much larger and oil-rich Iran.

    Finally, the actual involvement we have in Syria now and in the foreseeable future is mostly limited to protecting the Kurds from Assad and Turkey and tamping down the last remnants of ISIS in the desert around the Iraq border. This isn’t especially helpful to Israel or harmful to Iran/Assad.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Israel regularly bombs Iran or Hezbollah in Syria, every few weeks. It's been going on since at least the beginning of 2013 - if I recall (so these airstrikes have been occurring for over 5 years). They usually are small attacks, bombing what seems kind of target of opportunity, and then not in sustained way (just a single airstrike, and then quiet afterwards).

    They don't acknowledge who is responsible, probably so as to not obligate Assad to respond (if they said they did it, then it would put public pressure on Iran/Hezbollah or even Assad to strike back). But they are hinting sometimes about it in the media.

    Usually Russia does not comment when it happens - however, in this case (and some others), Russia is saying the strike happened from Israel, which has drawn some more media attention than in most cases.

    , @John Gruskos
    Animal Netanyahu is murdering innocent civilians in Gaza, and animal Mohamed bin Salmen is murdering innocent civilians in Yemen.

    The US military should respond by destroying the Israeli and Saudi air force and navy.
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  7. How the Lying Press massages, shall we say, reality:

    As is customary, Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing.

    As is [Israel's custom], Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing. It is not customary.

    “I don’t know what happened there and who attacked,” Lieberman said of the Syrian strike. “I know one thing with certainty: We will not allow the Iranians to establish themselves in Syria, whatever the price may be. We have no other choice.”

    This is a person who is willing to brazenly lie and see absolutely nothing wrong with that dishonesty. Indeed, he’s so inured to lying that he doesn’t even realize other people will see him obviously lying and consider him a liar. Or, perhaps, he believes that the only people who would care have goyische kopf, so it doesn’t matter. Perhaps he’s right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/b9/b9e2de1c0c65d517610fb1e91cde596439fd71a6a4763059f0a21c8d9dd8b816.jpg
    , @Jack D
    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.
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  8. @J.Ross
    The analysis explains Lieberman but not Israel or the situation. The best explanations are still that it's the pipelines and positioning for future dominance.

    There does seem to be a real blackout on the pipelines. The pipelines (along with doing what Israel wants) provide a more logical version of Occam’s Razor than the normal narratives as to why a war with Syria is just who we are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lot
    I've never found pipeline based explanations of middle east politics plausible. The profits from a pipeline are tiny compared to the cost of war. Oil is dense and expensive and can even be carted profitably in trucks through war zones, as we saw ISIS do to Turkey (who, not Israel, was ISIS's ally and trading partner, but that does not fit into the paranoid theories of American nutcases ).

    For natural gas, LNG infrastructure and production is growing so rapidly almost the entire world market is depressed. It just isn't worth building pipelines long distances through unstable countries, and then protecting them for decades to recoup the initial investment. Prices are less than half their inflation adjusted long term average and one sixth their price in the late 00s. They would be even lower were it not for the fact that so many new gas plants are being built to replace coal.
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  9. Anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    OT: It turns out the most popular Black Lives Matter Facebook donation page was a scam run by a white Aussie guy. The main BLM had contacted Facebook months ago with concerns about the site, and got ignored.

    Zuckerberg is really going down in flames. By now, the left hates his guts. I'm sure he was hoping for the Democratic nomination, but it's never going to happen now.

    I've concluded the Deep State doesn't want Zuck in office, which is why they're turning on him. Under Obama, various government departments got used to running things their own way and building up their own little fiefdoms. They last guy they want as president is Mr. Spy-In-Chief. Zuckerberg is both energetic and nosy, and that's a combination distressing to Deep State types who want to be left alone to plot their skullduggery in peace. They don't want Zuck popping up behind their shoulders and saying, "Now what are you doing there?" They also, after Trump, don't want any more outsiders to gain the presidency. They want someone who thinks like themselves, a tame professional politician, and not some guy who thinks for himself and fundamentally disagrees with their policies.

    Lots of hostile leftist reaction to Ted Cruz asking about the bias against conservatives on Zuckbook. No matter how right he is, this will be perceived as whining, and thus a demonstration of weakness.

    I did enjoy seeing Zuckborg admit that the Silicon Dons are “extremely left-wing”. The Right needs to end its oligarch worship, they are rent seekers not job creators.

    The normie median voter has nil concern for us, and most conservatives still view “regulation” as a four-letter-word, “nationalization” might as well be viewed as fighting words.

    We are expected to bootstrap our own platforms such as this one, Gab and others.

    Read More
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  10. Maybe, the most telling summation of why waging another fruitless war in that region is just who we are was delivered by a Senator from Mississippi. Tucker Carlson asked him how a war in Syria would make us safer and the senator’s reply started with “well, if you care about Israel…”

    Let’s face it, only a Nazi puppet of Putin wouldn’t want to wage a war that is harmful to the US citizenry by increasing terrorism and putting the US into deeper debt, will lead to even more dead Syrians, help ISIS and open the door to even more genocide of Christians in the region.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mishra
    • Replies: @Frankie P
    You should provide exact quotes of the exchange in order to avoid understating your point, which you do terribly by saying that Tucker asked him "how a war in Syria would make us safer." Weak tea, there, because Israeli apologists would say "Oh, he's asking about humanity, how to make humanity safer." Let's expose Senator Roger Wicker for the horrible sellout of a human being that he is. He is so low, wiping the bottom of a deplorable American among his constituents would represent an increase in his actions in support of them.

    Exact question: "What is the American national security interest that would be served by regime change in Syria?"

    Wicker: "Well, if you care about Israel, you have to be interested at least."

    To his credit, later in the segment, Tucker Carlson tries to get back to the question, "but I just want to get back to the core question that I think a lot of voters have, which is, 'What's the American national security interest served?' You said 'If you care about Israel...", and I do care about Israel, but what's the American national security interest that would be served by regime change? You can think of a lot of potential downsides: deaths, cost, etc..."

    The initial exchange in this interview, the question and first answer, are a perfect illustration of the depravity and corruption of elected officials in the US. The American people should be ashamed that they don't have the gumption to rise up and tar and feather these people in the public square.

    Frankie P
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  11. Avigdor Lieberman: “Hey, Donald, Let’s You and Vlad Fight”

    This lady has experience both in staging bouts and in opposing Liebermans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_McMahon

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    In a real fight, I’d say Putin throws Trump on his head and then strangles him silly.
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  12. @Uilleam Yr Alban
    How the Lying Press massages, shall we say, reality:

    As is customary, Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing.
     
    As is [Israel's custom], Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing. It is not customary.

    “I don’t know what happened there and who attacked,” Lieberman said of the Syrian strike. “I know one thing with certainty: We will not allow the Iranians to establish themselves in Syria, whatever the price may be. We have no other choice.”
     
    This is a person who is willing to brazenly lie and see absolutely nothing wrong with that dishonesty. Indeed, he's so inured to lying that he doesn't even realize other people will see him obviously lying and consider him a liar. Or, perhaps, he believes that the only people who would care have goyische kopf, so it doesn't matter. Perhaps he's right.

    Read More
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  13. Read More
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  14. @Anon
    OT: It turns out the most popular Black Lives Matter Facebook donation page was a scam run by a white Aussie guy. The main BLM had contacted Facebook months ago with concerns about the site, and got ignored.

    Zuckerberg is really going down in flames. By now, the left hates his guts. I'm sure he was hoping for the Democratic nomination, but it's never going to happen now.

    I've concluded the Deep State doesn't want Zuck in office, which is why they're turning on him. Under Obama, various government departments got used to running things their own way and building up their own little fiefdoms. They last guy they want as president is Mr. Spy-In-Chief. Zuckerberg is both energetic and nosy, and that's a combination distressing to Deep State types who want to be left alone to plot their skullduggery in peace. They don't want Zuck popping up behind their shoulders and saying, "Now what are you doing there?" They also, after Trump, don't want any more outsiders to gain the presidency. They want someone who thinks like themselves, a tame professional politician, and not some guy who thinks for himself and fundamentally disagrees with their policies.

    I am taking a bath on my Zuck for President bet. He has gone from 5% to win the Dem nomination to 1 or 2%.

    Still playing with house money, won a lot betting that Trump would win Georgia, NC, and Utah. Didn’t have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.

    Currently I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won’t, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment. There are about 12 easy Dem pickups, but beyond that I mostly see some pretty solidly GOP seats, and most Democrats are not Conor Lamb. I read an estimate that the House is so gerrymandered the Dems could need to win the House popular vote by 11. They have been even higher than that in some polls, but not on average. Other estimates are lower than 11, and these are mostly before PA was remapped.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Didn’t have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.
     
    Oh, and I am surprised, but I got you there brother. I tripled my money, even after PredictIt extorted the danegeld. And I got some of it on your helpful advice. Thanks! :-)

    I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won’t, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment.
     
    I am with you here. If Paul Ryan wasn't so stupid it would not be an open question. But it is. OTOH three-to-one, that is where I get interested. I might get in, just because.
    , @songbird
    Like everyone, politics has surprised me a few times.

    Zuck has the ambition. I don't doubt that, but he's too dorky. He doesn't have a cult like Jobs did or Musk has currently. If Musk had been born in the US, he'd have been an easy bet I think.

    Low odds for Liz Warren too - she never faced a primary. Oprah doesn't need it. Who will it be? Someone Hispanic would be my guess. Got to keep in mind that they are probably running against Trump and know it long ahead of time.
    , @Anonymous
    Two thoughts on Zuck for President:

    1) If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game. That sort of thing is just no fun. Politics could give him an excuse to extract himself. Give high-minded talks about how Facebook is committed to transparency and ethics, whatever, but leave the details to Sheryl - why not make her CEO, a win for women - and take the money and run.

    2) The fact that many leftists might start to despise him doesn't disqualify him. Many "conservatives" despised Trump, and voted for him anyway. I think leftists could come around to thinking about Zuck what many think about Trump: he might be a freak, but he's our freak.

    There are no actual leaders contending for the Democrats in 2020. Zuck, hate him or not, has achieved something, by any standard. (I personally despise Facebook and view it as a social evil.)
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  15. Israel faces blowback

    Haha Miss Tarnopolsky! Big kidder you are!

    Israel doesn’t have to face anything, anywhere, at any time. It has the United States for that. Question: What do you call a shabbas goy when it’s a whole country, not just a single person?

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  16. Here’s what I don’t get about the whole Middle East thing: the Syrians are alleged to have gassed 40 people last week. Can’t be proven that Assad did it… and it might be insurgents with stolen Syrian chemical weapons who did it as a provocation, if it happened at all.

    And we’re supposed to bomb Syria and depose Assad.

    The Israelis, on the other hand, are absolutely known to have shot 27 Palestinians dead last week.

    Why, then, aren’t we supposed to bomb Israel and depose Bibi?

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    Because lies are more useful than the truth when the goal is having a nice little war, that's why. And besides--the USA can afford another war. We know this because the dollar hasn't collapsed yet. When it does, then maybe we'll stop this 'War for Israel' routine, but not until then.
    , @songbird
    Gas is one of those things that trigger the liberal hindbrain, it is like nuclear energy and racism. Because it is invisible it is basically dark magic and therefore taboo. Think of how carbon dioxide and the ozone layer drive them nuts.

    In a similar vein, the NYT ran an editorial a few days ago which called poison "Russia's most fearsome weapon." Not intercontinental, multi-warhead ballistic missiles, but poison! I couldn't believe it. It may be the most ridiculous editorial they ever ran, and that is really saying something.
    , @Jack D
    The "how do we know it wasn't a false flag operation?" thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn't make of green cheese? How do we know anything? Why do people keep running "false flag operations" against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?
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  17. @Anon
    Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”

    Only reason Iran(along with Russia) is in Syria is because Israel, Saudis, US, and Turkey aided the 'rebels' and Jihadis. If the war ends, Iranians can leave.

    The guy is full of crap.

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.

    They also tremble with fear, glow with pride, kvetch with infinite self-pity, etc., etc., etc. They are voluble.

    It would be great if those energetic, voluble, competent Israelis could be given a contract to build the Trump Wall. Bibi could be appointed U.S. Wall Czar, after he is ousted from his current office by the Israeli justice system. One can dream.

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    • Replies: @Olorin

    It would be great if those energetic, voluble, competent Israelis could be given a contract to build the Trump Wall.
     
    Looked online for a clip from the de Mille Ten Commandments movie depicting the retconned bit of Egyptian history known as the Brick Pit Scene.

    No luck.

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  18. @Berty
    Trump has been a shockingly weak president. Lacking any real principles and easily swayed by whoever talked to him last. Pathetic.

    Trump has been a shockingly weak president. Lacking any real principles and easily swayed by whoever talked to him last. Pathetic.

    For 10+ years Trump tried to buy the site for Trump Tower. Nothing happened and he was a complete failure, a bridge-and-tunnel jamoke. Then the site came available and Trump built his tower.

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  19. @Dr. X
    Here's what I don't get about the whole Middle East thing: the Syrians are alleged to have gassed 40 people last week. Can't be proven that Assad did it... and it might be insurgents with stolen Syrian chemical weapons who did it as a provocation, if it happened at all.

    And we're supposed to bomb Syria and depose Assad.

    The Israelis, on the other hand, are absolutely known to have shot 27 Palestinians dead last week.

    Why, then, aren't we supposed to bomb Israel and depose Bibi?

    Because lies are more useful than the truth when the goal is having a nice little war, that’s why. And besides–the USA can afford another war. We know this because the dollar hasn’t collapsed yet. When it does, then maybe we’ll stop this ‘War for Israel’ routine, but not until then.

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  20. This post seems an example of fake news.

    I read the headline. I read the introductory paragraph. I read the article. And there is little relation between them. Maybe someone more subtle can explain it to me?

    From reading other media reports on the topic – it seemed that Israel assassinated a group of Iranian generals in the airstrike. And in the quoted article, the defense minister is saying he won’t allow Iran to establish in Syria. He doesn’t directly take credit for it, but in the indirect way hints that Israel was responsible.

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  21. Steve, you misread the article.In the sentence at the end “If Trump withdraws U.S. troops from Syria, he added, it will be “a real gain” for Assad, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Iran’s Khamenei.” the “he” who added is Mr.Higgins not Mr. Lieberman. Mr. Lieberman said nothing of the sort you attributed to him. At the very least an update is called for.

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  22. @Lot
    Other than the quote from "Elliot Higgins" of the website "Bellingcat," I don't see any support in this article for your headline and first paragraph. Time and again, it has been the USA restraining Israel against pounding down its enemies, not the other way around.

    I keep hearing from anti-Israel sources that Israel prefers an ISIS win and the USA just does whatever Israel wants. But what actually happened in Syria and Iraq lately is we went in heavy against ISIS with thousands of ground troops and heavy bombing, while supporting Iraq's Iran-proxy Shiite government and pin-pricking Iran-proxy Assad.

    I think the best US policy is getting out if Syria and leaving it to the Turks and Russians, and for Israel to try to work out its problems with Iran the way they gradually have done with the Gulf states and Egypt. The long term goal is a free hand in the West Bank and to expel militant Muslim citizens of Israel, not an unwinnable war, cold or hot, with the much larger and oil-rich Iran.

    Finally, the actual involvement we have in Syria now and in the foreseeable future is mostly limited to protecting the Kurds from Assad and Turkey and tamping down the last remnants of ISIS in the desert around the Iraq border. This isn't especially helpful to Israel or harmful to Iran/Assad.

    Israel regularly bombs Iran or Hezbollah in Syria, every few weeks. It’s been going on since at least the beginning of 2013 – if I recall (so these airstrikes have been occurring for over 5 years). They usually are small attacks, bombing what seems kind of target of opportunity, and then not in sustained way (just a single airstrike, and then quiet afterwards).

    They don’t acknowledge who is responsible, probably so as to not obligate Assad to respond (if they said they did it, then it would put public pressure on Iran/Hezbollah or even Assad to strike back). But they are hinting sometimes about it in the media.

    Usually Russia does not comment when it happens – however, in this case (and some others), Russia is saying the strike happened from Israel, which has drawn some more media attention than in most cases.

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  23. @Berty
    Trump has been a shockingly weak president. Lacking any real principles and easily swayed by whoever talked to him last. Pathetic.

    Trump has been a shockingly weak president.

    Right. Unlike Obama, whose strength plunged the Middle East into serial civil wars and unleashed the migration that will have Islamified Europe. Or GW Bush, who didn’t wait around for a civil war to start – he launched it himself.

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  24. @Lot
    I am taking a bath on my Zuck for President bet. He has gone from 5% to win the Dem nomination to 1 or 2%.

    Still playing with house money, won a lot betting that Trump would win Georgia, NC, and Utah. Didn't have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.

    Currently I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won't, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment. There are about 12 easy Dem pickups, but beyond that I mostly see some pretty solidly GOP seats, and most Democrats are not Conor Lamb. I read an estimate that the House is so gerrymandered the Dems could need to win the House popular vote by 11. They have been even higher than that in some polls, but not on average. Other estimates are lower than 11, and these are mostly before PA was remapped.

    Didn’t have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.

    Oh, and I am surprised, but I got you there brother. I tripled my money, even after PredictIt extorted the danegeld. And I got some of it on your helpful advice. Thanks! :-)

    I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won’t, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment.

    I am with you here. If Paul Ryan wasn’t so stupid it would not be an open question. But it is. OTOH three-to-one, that is where I get interested. I might get in, just because.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Awesome, I was pretty careful not to suggest every idea I traded. But the idea that Hillary would win Georgia, North Carolina and Utah was completely nuts. The fact the exit polls were wrong on NC and the early returns favored Hillary made it so you could 5x betting on Trump there at one point.

    Overall I think predictit prices are fairly reasonable.

    Another fun thing I'd do during the primaries is go to county election websites with like 15 windows open and hit refresh a million times and buy based on the first results before CNN and NYT got them. I mostly ended up rushing in big Cruz buy orders since he tended to outperform his polling the most.
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  25. Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    Tucker exposed another bullshit artist...
    , @ThreeCranes
    Chlorine gas attack?

    A water treatment plant struck by a bomb would release vast amounts of vaporized chlorine into the neighboring atmosphere. A rail car loaded with chlorine would do the same. Chlorine is a common industrial chemical. Accidental spills are not unheard of. Leaks due to acts of war are not improbable events.

    Secondly, just look at the haze of suspended particles through which the men are rushing in the video. That's enough to gag anyone--especially infants or children who are more susceptible to environmental poisons.

    It may well be that some people suffered adverse effects to their respiratory systems in the wake of the bombing, but that this was caused by agents that were part of the missile delivery system remains to be proven.

    "Where's the beef?"

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  26. Putin MUST BE STOPPED by any means necessary, 4-star general warns war with Russia ‘soon’

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/943847/world-war-3-Donald-Trump-war-Syria-Russia-Iran-conflict-strike-General-Jack-Keane

    General Keane added: “There is no political solution given the fact the Iranians and Russians have successfully propped up the Assad regime.

    “That is the reality that is taking place here. The US has no leverage, the Arabs have no leverage and Europe has no leverage.

    They have essentially achieved a military victory here, finishing off the remnants of the opposition forces. That is what this chemical attack is all about.”

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    This general's phrasing is very interesting.
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  27. 4 April 2018

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/defense-minister-slams-russia-iran-turkey-for-shaping-syrias-future-alone/
    “This is the first time since the Second World War that a meeting like this was held without the approval of the UN. They are determining Syria’s future without any American representative,”

    14 February 2018

    Citing Cuban missile crisis, Liberman hints Israel will hit Iran in Syria again

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/citing-cuban-missile-crisis-liberman-hints-israel-will-hit-iran-in-syria-again/

    “But I remember from recent history, when the Soviet Union decided to put ballistic missiles in Cuba, next to the United States. President [John F.] Kennedy was ready to risk a third world war,” Liberman said.

    “He said, ‘We will not allow Russian missiles in Cuba.’ Well, Syria is a lot closer to us than Cuba is to the US. Therefore we hope that people act logically, considerately, and don’t put us in a situation that leaves us no choice.”

    FEBRUARY 13, 2018

    LIBERMAN ON SYRIA: THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BARK, BUT TO BITE

    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Liberman-on-Syria-This-is-not-the-time-to-bark-but-to-bite-542477

    “There are no restrictions, we do not accept any restrictions. We acted with determination and responded to every provocation. We will continue to defend our vital security interests,” he said.

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  28. @utu
    Putin MUST BE STOPPED by any means necessary, 4-star general warns war with Russia ‘soon’

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/943847/world-war-3-Donald-Trump-war-Syria-Russia-Iran-conflict-strike-General-Jack-Keane

    General Keane added: “There is no political solution given the fact the Iranians and Russians have successfully propped up the Assad regime.

    “That is the reality that is taking place here. The US has no leverage, the Arabs have no leverage and Europe has no leverage.

    They have essentially achieved a military victory here, finishing off the remnants of the opposition forces. That is what this chemical attack is all about.”
     

    This general’s phrasing is very interesting.

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  29. @utu
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28aYkLRlm0

    Tucker exposed another bullshit artist…

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  30. @Uilleam Yr Alban
    How the Lying Press massages, shall we say, reality:

    As is customary, Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing.
     
    As is [Israel's custom], Israeli officials refused to comment on the bombing. It is not customary.

    “I don’t know what happened there and who attacked,” Lieberman said of the Syrian strike. “I know one thing with certainty: We will not allow the Iranians to establish themselves in Syria, whatever the price may be. We have no other choice.”
     
    This is a person who is willing to brazenly lie and see absolutely nothing wrong with that dishonesty. Indeed, he's so inured to lying that he doesn't even realize other people will see him obviously lying and consider him a liar. Or, perhaps, he believes that the only people who would care have goyische kopf, so it doesn't matter. Perhaps he's right.

    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    The record has overwhelmingly been Western lying, which is self-explanatory for great power reasons. A lot of exoneration of Russia and Assad comes from completely unrelated people who do not stand to benefit and who actually disapprove of Putin. There is also the problem that Assad only deploys gas when it makes absolutely no sense to do so.
    , @Mishra

    Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.
     
    If--for once--you would include Israel in your condemnations, you'd be accurate.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.
     
    Sounds like a good reason for the U.S. to stay the Hell out of Syria.
    , @surly

    Or Assad when he gasses his own people
     
    You were doing so well for MANY words, and then you went and said the stupid.
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  31. @Dr. X
    Here's what I don't get about the whole Middle East thing: the Syrians are alleged to have gassed 40 people last week. Can't be proven that Assad did it... and it might be insurgents with stolen Syrian chemical weapons who did it as a provocation, if it happened at all.

    And we're supposed to bomb Syria and depose Assad.

    The Israelis, on the other hand, are absolutely known to have shot 27 Palestinians dead last week.

    Why, then, aren't we supposed to bomb Israel and depose Bibi?

    Gas is one of those things that trigger the liberal hindbrain, it is like nuclear energy and racism. Because it is invisible it is basically dark magic and therefore taboo. Think of how carbon dioxide and the ozone layer drive them nuts.

    In a similar vein, the NYT ran an editorial a few days ago which called poison “Russia’s most fearsome weapon.” Not intercontinental, multi-warhead ballistic missiles, but poison! I couldn’t believe it. It may be the most ridiculous editorial they ever ran, and that is really saying something.

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  32. @Jack D
    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

    The record has overwhelmingly been Western lying, which is self-explanatory for great power reasons. A lot of exoneration of Russia and Assad comes from completely unrelated people who do not stand to benefit and who actually disapprove of Putin. There is also the problem that Assad only deploys gas when it makes absolutely no sense to do so.

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  33. @Dr. X
    Here's what I don't get about the whole Middle East thing: the Syrians are alleged to have gassed 40 people last week. Can't be proven that Assad did it... and it might be insurgents with stolen Syrian chemical weapons who did it as a provocation, if it happened at all.

    And we're supposed to bomb Syria and depose Assad.

    The Israelis, on the other hand, are absolutely known to have shot 27 Palestinians dead last week.

    Why, then, aren't we supposed to bomb Israel and depose Bibi?

    The “how do we know it wasn’t a false flag operation?” thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn’t make of green cheese? How do we know anything? Why do people keep running “false flag operations” against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?

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    • Replies: @utu

    Why do people keep running “false flag operations” against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US?
     
    These false flags are actually against the US. There are against the interest of majority of Americans including some Jewish Americans. Because there are some Jews who were against going to wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. You are just not one of them.

    This moon and green cheese as argumentum ad absurdum is getting old.
    , @J.Ross
    You're reversing it. All of the previous claims were exposed as hoaxes or as not Assad's fault. Nobody's asking how do we know, because it has happened so often that it is now reasonable to assume. The burden is on the other side to prove--oh and it turns out the US just voted down a UN resolution about investigating it.
    , @Mr. Anon

    The “how do we know it wasn’t a false flag operation?” thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn’t make of green cheese? How do we know anything?
     
    By going to the Moon and determining what it is actually made of (and of course, there were other, remote ways as well). By seeking out evidence and weighing it.

    However, this apparently was not done for the gas attack last April - not by the US at least. Mattis admitted that we have no evidence that Syria used sarin gas (in what was ostensibly a sarin gas attack).


    Why do people keep running “false flag operations” against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?
     
    Who says it has to be a false flag or that the CIA or Mossad had to do it? Since we don't seem to be demanding evidence, no evidence is really needed. The establishment (for want of a better term) have been chafing at the bit for five years to get involved in Syria. It's not like they need a lot of convincing. Their proof seems to amount to simply asserting it repeatedly. Just as they asserted that Russia "hacked our democracy" despite any evidence in support of that contention. And there are interested parties in Syria who want the US to stay. Poof - a little incident - and they stay.
    , @Pericles
    You forgot a few: Why is the US in Syria? Why does it so stubbornly remain there? And why does it support ISIS?
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  34. @Lot
    I am taking a bath on my Zuck for President bet. He has gone from 5% to win the Dem nomination to 1 or 2%.

    Still playing with house money, won a lot betting that Trump would win Georgia, NC, and Utah. Didn't have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.

    Currently I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won't, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment. There are about 12 easy Dem pickups, but beyond that I mostly see some pretty solidly GOP seats, and most Democrats are not Conor Lamb. I read an estimate that the House is so gerrymandered the Dems could need to win the House popular vote by 11. They have been even higher than that in some polls, but not on average. Other estimates are lower than 11, and these are mostly before PA was remapped.

    Like everyone, politics has surprised me a few times.

    Zuck has the ambition. I don’t doubt that, but he’s too dorky. He doesn’t have a cult like Jobs did or Musk has currently. If Musk had been born in the US, he’d have been an easy bet I think.

    Low odds for Liz Warren too – she never faced a primary. Oprah doesn’t need it. Who will it be? Someone Hispanic would be my guess. Got to keep in mind that they are probably running against Trump and know it long ahead of time.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Respect your thoughts, but Hispanics can't even win Democratic primaries in California where they outnumber us. Or even Los Angeles, which is majority Mexican and has a mayor with a ruddy-Irish looking father who is about as mestizo as Warren is Indian, and a Jewish mother. They won't be winning any presidential primaries in our lifetimes.

    Sure Zuck is dorky, but do people actually care about that? A lot of people may see him as reassuringly bland after 4 years of the Trump Show and 8 Years of Barack Jesus DiversityStrength NotWhoWeAre. I posted at length about this cultural difference before, but people in the NE and South like politicians to be interesting, exciting, fun. Mini royal families. But in the Midwest we like politicans to be bland workhorses, ideally not from family wealth. Zuck fits the bill.

    So Zuck would suffer in the NE where he'd win anyway and the South where he'd lose anyway, but have this advantage where most of the swing states are.
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  35. @J.Ross
    The analysis explains Lieberman but not Israel or the situation. The best explanations are still that it's the pipelines and positioning for future dominance.

    it’s the pipelines and positioning for future dominance

    Pipelines, oil, gold or whatever of material nature are the 2nd tier justifications for the wars in the ME. They are for the people who are too savvy who do not believe the news that the war is about the weapons of mass destruction or bringing democracy and saving women and children. In this group are also people who believe that wars are good for economy or at least for the MIC. They are cynical and pragmatic people like Texan oilmen and military contractors who will support these wars just for these reasons and various leftists will oppose these wars for the same reason. But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel. The planned and desired outcome of the wars are weakened and balkanized states w/o ability to create functioning state and society. No schools, no hospitals, no factories, no army, no infrastructure but just chaos with tribal and sectarian fighting which can be fueled by supporting the faction opposing to the one that is about to solidify power. This can go ad infinitum.

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    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.
     
    Well, here's an intriguing data point. In glancing over this comment-thread and a couple of other recent ones on the similar topic, I've noticed that it's basically the fanatic Jewish-activist types like "Lot", "Jack D", and "Dmitry" who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia. Relatively few other commenters seem to be taking this position.

    If those Jewish-activist types represent (say) 10% of the regular commentariate but 90% of the harsher warmongers, that's an interesting statistical fact.

    Surely this seems to strongly support the Russia Insider hypothesis that was published a few weeks ago about who's really behind the crazy anti-Russia activism, which seems totally obvious to anyone with a few functioning brain cells...
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  36. @Reg Cæsar
    Avigdor Lieberman: "Hey, Donald, Let's You and Vlad Fight"

    This lady has experience both in staging bouts and in opposing Liebermans:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_McMahon

    In a real fight, I’d say Putin throws Trump on his head and then strangles him silly.

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  37. @Jack D
    The "how do we know it wasn't a false flag operation?" thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn't make of green cheese? How do we know anything? Why do people keep running "false flag operations" against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?

    Why do people keep running “false flag operations” against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US?

    These false flags are actually against the US. There are against the interest of majority of Americans including some Jewish Americans. Because there are some Jews who were against going to wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria. You are just not one of them.

    This moon and green cheese as argumentum ad absurdum is getting old.

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  38. @TheBoom
    There does seem to be a real blackout on the pipelines. The pipelines (along with doing what Israel wants) provide a more logical version of Occam's Razor than the normal narratives as to why a war with Syria is just who we are.

    I’ve never found pipeline based explanations of middle east politics plausible. The profits from a pipeline are tiny compared to the cost of war. Oil is dense and expensive and can even be carted profitably in trucks through war zones, as we saw ISIS do to Turkey (who, not Israel, was ISIS’s ally and trading partner, but that does not fit into the paranoid theories of American nutcases ).

    For natural gas, LNG infrastructure and production is growing so rapidly almost the entire world market is depressed. It just isn’t worth building pipelines long distances through unstable countries, and then protecting them for decades to recoup the initial investment. Prices are less than half their inflation adjusted long term average and one sixth their price in the late 00s. They would be even lower were it not for the fact that so many new gas plants are being built to replace coal.

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    • Replies: @Pericles

    The profits from a pipeline are tiny compared to the cost of war.

     

    Privatize the profits, socialize the costs, buddy.
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  39. Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”

    If only there was a large, militarily heavy-weight country that was hostile to Iran and that lay between it and Israel, to serve as a buffer……………..

    ………………about where Iraq is located.

    Too bad that never happened.

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    • Replies: @Karl
    39 Anon > If only there was a large, militarily heavy-weight country that was hostile to Iran and that lay between it and Israel

    didja hear the joke about the American guy who google'd the (erstwhile) military assets and manpower of Iraq, and started to imagine that Iraq was a regional dominant military power?
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  40. @Jack D
    The "how do we know it wasn't a false flag operation?" thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn't make of green cheese? How do we know anything? Why do people keep running "false flag operations" against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?

    You’re reversing it. All of the previous claims were exposed as hoaxes or as not Assad’s fault. Nobody’s asking how do we know, because it has happened so often that it is now reasonable to assume. The burden is on the other side to prove–oh and it turns out the US just voted down a UN resolution about investigating it.

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  41. @Jack D
    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

    Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

    If–for once–you would include Israel in your condemnations, you’d be accurate.

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  42. anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    This obsession with Syria has gotten bizarre and irrational. Syria as an intact state wasn’t capable of engaging Israel in war as a peer enemy so the attempted destabilization of the country wasn’t a good idea. Now what, throwing in good money after bad? Hopefully Syria doesn’t become the Sarajevo of this century.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    All these secular Baathist states just spontaneously exploded in the last couple of decades.
    , @Lot
    I was too young to remember them, but there are all sorts of awesome articles and videos about Israel's F15 and F16s blasting away Syria's state of the art Russian air force in the 70s and 80s. The largest post Korean War dogfight was between Israel and Syria, with our guy winning 85-0.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=laD9yQa-JaM&feature=related

    http://www.military.com/video/forces/military-foreign-forces/operation-mole-cricket-19-a-personal-story/5467999697001

    Sparrows and sidewinders, brings back memories of playing SNES jet and helicopter video games and drinking Mountain Dew with my middle school friends!
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  43. @Jack D
    The "how do we know it wasn't a false flag operation?" thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn't make of green cheese? How do we know anything? Why do people keep running "false flag operations" against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?

    The “how do we know it wasn’t a false flag operation?” thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn’t make of green cheese? How do we know anything?

    By going to the Moon and determining what it is actually made of (and of course, there were other, remote ways as well). By seeking out evidence and weighing it.

    However, this apparently was not done for the gas attack last April – not by the US at least. Mattis admitted that we have no evidence that Syria used sarin gas (in what was ostensibly a sarin gas attack).

    Why do people keep running “false flag operations” against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?

    Who says it has to be a false flag or that the CIA or Mossad had to do it? Since we don’t seem to be demanding evidence, no evidence is really needed. The establishment (for want of a better term) have been chafing at the bit for five years to get involved in Syria. It’s not like they need a lot of convincing. Their proof seems to amount to simply asserting it repeatedly. Just as they asserted that Russia “hacked our democracy” despite any evidence in support of that contention. And there are interested parties in Syria who want the US to stay. Poof – a little incident – and they stay.

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  44. @Jack D
    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

    Sounds like a good reason for the U.S. to stay the Hell out of Syria.

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  45. @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    Didn’t have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.
     
    Oh, and I am surprised, but I got you there brother. I tripled my money, even after PredictIt extorted the danegeld. And I got some of it on your helpful advice. Thanks! :-)

    I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won’t, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment.
     
    I am with you here. If Paul Ryan wasn't so stupid it would not be an open question. But it is. OTOH three-to-one, that is where I get interested. I might get in, just because.

    Awesome, I was pretty careful not to suggest every idea I traded. But the idea that Hillary would win Georgia, North Carolina and Utah was completely nuts. The fact the exit polls were wrong on NC and the early returns favored Hillary made it so you could 5x betting on Trump there at one point.

    Overall I think predictit prices are fairly reasonable.

    Another fun thing I’d do during the primaries is go to county election websites with like 15 windows open and hit refresh a million times and buy based on the first results before CNN and NYT got them. I mostly ended up rushing in big Cruz buy orders since he tended to outperform his polling the most.

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  46. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    I am taking a bath on my Zuck for President bet. He has gone from 5% to win the Dem nomination to 1 or 2%.

    Still playing with house money, won a lot betting that Trump would win Georgia, NC, and Utah. Didn't have the guts to bet on him winning the whole thing, but still about doubled my money.

    Currently I am slowly moving into a bet the GOP holds the house. They probably won't, but I like the 3-1 odds, I think it is more like 60/40 at the moment. There are about 12 easy Dem pickups, but beyond that I mostly see some pretty solidly GOP seats, and most Democrats are not Conor Lamb. I read an estimate that the House is so gerrymandered the Dems could need to win the House popular vote by 11. They have been even higher than that in some polls, but not on average. Other estimates are lower than 11, and these are mostly before PA was remapped.

    Two thoughts on Zuck for President:

    1) If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game. That sort of thing is just no fun. Politics could give him an excuse to extract himself. Give high-minded talks about how Facebook is committed to transparency and ethics, whatever, but leave the details to Sheryl – why not make her CEO, a win for women – and take the money and run.

    2) The fact that many leftists might start to despise him doesn’t disqualify him. Many “conservatives” despised Trump, and voted for him anyway. I think leftists could come around to thinking about Zuck what many think about Trump: he might be a freak, but he’s our freak.

    There are no actual leaders contending for the Democrats in 2020. Zuck, hate him or not, has achieved something, by any standard. (I personally despise Facebook and view it as a social evil.)

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    • Replies: @Mishra
    It would almost be the tallest president followed by the shortest.
    Well, almost. Madison & Lincoln were freaks!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5600961/The-real-booster-Mark-Zuckerberg-sitting-tall-inches-extra-cushion-testimony.html
    , @Pericles

    If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game.

     

    Just like all the other Big Tech companies, Zuckland will have to become explicitly political. Microsoft tried to stay out, it didn't work. Google and Amazon are now merrily funding lobbyists and NGOs and buying newspapers. And so on. You have to play ball, buddy.
    , @Lot
    I agree with all that and is part of the reason I am holding on to my devalued Zuck wins Dem Nomination shares. If he gets in, he wins because he can drop a billion on just the primary like it is no big deal, and he is unique for his youth, industry and not just another cautiously SJW senator.

    Why not wait? If Trump loses, that could lock up the Dem nomination in 2024, and then the Dem's VP in 2028. Might be a matter of waiting 12 or even 16 more years, not 4. And demographic trends are not exactly favorable for a white guy running in Dem primaries.

    Zuck also seems to be fairly uninterested in sex drugs rock and roll, marrying the first girl he ever seriously dated. Meanwhile Kamala is childless and dated a much older Mayor Willie Brown. Would Asians block vote for him because of his wife the way blacks did for DeBlasio?
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  47. @Anonymous
    Two thoughts on Zuck for President:

    1) If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game. That sort of thing is just no fun. Politics could give him an excuse to extract himself. Give high-minded talks about how Facebook is committed to transparency and ethics, whatever, but leave the details to Sheryl - why not make her CEO, a win for women - and take the money and run.

    2) The fact that many leftists might start to despise him doesn't disqualify him. Many "conservatives" despised Trump, and voted for him anyway. I think leftists could come around to thinking about Zuck what many think about Trump: he might be a freak, but he's our freak.

    There are no actual leaders contending for the Democrats in 2020. Zuck, hate him or not, has achieved something, by any standard. (I personally despise Facebook and view it as a social evil.)

    It would almost be the tallest president followed by the shortest.
    Well, almost. Madison & Lincoln were freaks!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5600961/The-real-booster-Mark-Zuckerberg-sitting-tall-inches-extra-cushion-testimony.html

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  48. @Jack D
    The "how do we know it wasn't a false flag operation?" thing has been done to death. How do we know that the moon isn't make of green cheese? How do we know anything? Why do people keep running "false flag operations" against Assad and Putin and Kim and never against the US? Is the CIA and Mossad that good that they are the only ones who can pull of provocations like this?

    You forgot a few: Why is the US in Syria? Why does it so stubbornly remain there? And why does it support ISIS?

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  49. @Lot
    I've never found pipeline based explanations of middle east politics plausible. The profits from a pipeline are tiny compared to the cost of war. Oil is dense and expensive and can even be carted profitably in trucks through war zones, as we saw ISIS do to Turkey (who, not Israel, was ISIS's ally and trading partner, but that does not fit into the paranoid theories of American nutcases ).

    For natural gas, LNG infrastructure and production is growing so rapidly almost the entire world market is depressed. It just isn't worth building pipelines long distances through unstable countries, and then protecting them for decades to recoup the initial investment. Prices are less than half their inflation adjusted long term average and one sixth their price in the late 00s. They would be even lower were it not for the fact that so many new gas plants are being built to replace coal.

    The profits from a pipeline are tiny compared to the cost of war.

    Privatize the profits, socialize the costs, buddy.

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  50. @anonymous
    This obsession with Syria has gotten bizarre and irrational. Syria as an intact state wasn't capable of engaging Israel in war as a peer enemy so the attempted destabilization of the country wasn't a good idea. Now what, throwing in good money after bad? Hopefully Syria doesn't become the Sarajevo of this century.

    All these secular Baathist states just spontaneously exploded in the last couple of decades.

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  51. @Anon
    Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”

    Only reason Iran(along with Russia) is in Syria is because Israel, Saudis, US, and Turkey aided the 'rebels' and Jihadis. If the war ends, Iranians can leave.

    The guy is full of crap.

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.

    If the war ends, Iranians can leave.

    lmaoooo

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  52. @Anonymous
    Two thoughts on Zuck for President:

    1) If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game. That sort of thing is just no fun. Politics could give him an excuse to extract himself. Give high-minded talks about how Facebook is committed to transparency and ethics, whatever, but leave the details to Sheryl - why not make her CEO, a win for women - and take the money and run.

    2) The fact that many leftists might start to despise him doesn't disqualify him. Many "conservatives" despised Trump, and voted for him anyway. I think leftists could come around to thinking about Zuck what many think about Trump: he might be a freak, but he's our freak.

    There are no actual leaders contending for the Democrats in 2020. Zuck, hate him or not, has achieved something, by any standard. (I personally despise Facebook and view it as a social evil.)

    If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game.

    Just like all the other Big Tech companies, Zuckland will have to become explicitly political. Microsoft tried to stay out, it didn’t work. Google and Amazon are now merrily funding lobbyists and NGOs and buying newspapers. And so on. You have to play ball, buddy.

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  53. @Anon
    Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”

    Only reason Iran(along with Russia) is in Syria is because Israel, Saudis, US, and Turkey aided the 'rebels' and Jihadis. If the war ends, Iranians can leave.

    The guy is full of crap.

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.

    1 anon > If the war ends, Iranians can leave

    if 10,000 Somalis get settled in your neighborhood, they “could” turn out to be a tremendous asset

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  54. 10 TheBoom > and the senator’s reply started with “well, if you care about Israel…”

    when I see TheBoom winning a state-wide election in Mississippi, is when I will pay attention to his concerns

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  55. @Mr. Anon

    Allowing Iran to remain in Syria, he said, was akin to “agreeing to the Iranians placing a noose around our necks. We will not allow it.”
     
    If only there was a large, militarily heavy-weight country that was hostile to Iran and that lay between it and Israel, to serve as a buffer.................

    ..................about where Iraq is located.

    Too bad that never happened.

    39 Anon > If only there was a large, militarily heavy-weight country that was hostile to Iran and that lay between it and Israel

    didja hear the joke about the American guy who google’d the (erstwhile) military assets and manpower of Iraq, and started to imagine that Iraq was a regional dominant military power?

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    didja hear the joke about the American guy who google’d the (erstwhile) military assets and manpower of Iraq, and started to imagine that Iraq was a regional dominant military power?
     
    They were a paper tiger when pitted against the U.S., but they were able to fight Iran to a standstill (albeit with some help) for eight years.
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  56. @Berty
    Trump has been a shockingly weak president. Lacking any real principles and easily swayed by whoever talked to him last. Pathetic.

    somewhat fair but few presidents have had even the grasp of world affairs the average political junkie has they all rely on advisors. Trumps gut instincts so enraged the inner/outer party that their were no advisors to be had except those that were entryists pretending to give hime fair and balanced options while in fact feeding him more deep state ultimatums. At least trump has exposed that there is only one party and its called the deep state and it will stop at nothing to have its way. My guess is hes a little suspicious at this second well timed ”ga attack”’ just as he again calls for a pullout. But they have done a good job of deceiving him and he is keeping his eyes open and if he can act their will be hell to pay. the day before this he had just screamed his head off at his nat sec team that he wasnt going to be rick rolled again on syria. For a time i thought maybe they had the goods on him like obama and bush mccain etc but it seems they dont and are getting more desperate and obvious, two days ago tucker carlson humiliated a gop senator and all but declared proven that the cia or israel had done this gas attack if it had even happened at all.polls show the people dont believe this crap for a minute and even if true dont care.

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  57. @utu
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28aYkLRlm0

    Chlorine gas attack?

    A water treatment plant struck by a bomb would release vast amounts of vaporized chlorine into the neighboring atmosphere. A rail car loaded with chlorine would do the same. Chlorine is a common industrial chemical. Accidental spills are not unheard of. Leaks due to acts of war are not improbable events.

    Secondly, just look at the haze of suspended particles through which the men are rushing in the video. That’s enough to gag anyone–especially infants or children who are more susceptible to environmental poisons.

    It may well be that some people suffered adverse effects to their respiratory systems in the wake of the bombing, but that this was caused by agents that were part of the missile delivery system remains to be proven.

    “Where’s the beef?”

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  58. The Israelis have been superficially very friendly even as their agents of influence and hasbara trolls have been whipping up Russophobia, looks like the Kremlin has had enough. Israel hasn’t been is such a weak position since 1973.

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    • LOL: IHTG
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  59. Pipelines, oil, gold or whatever of material nature are the 2nd tier justifications for the wars in the ME. They are for the people who are too savvy who do not believe the news that the war is about the weapons of mass destruction or bringing democracy and saving women and children.

    Well said, and agreed. I’ve looked at the pipeline situation just long enough to realize that there are too many alternatives available to make them a plausible explanation for war. For every pipeline theory, all you have to do is look at a map and search up some proposed pipeline maps to find 3 or 4 alternate routes. There are enough countries in the region to make locking down all the routes extremely difficult. It’s sort of like whack-a-mole. This stuff requires strong faith in the omniscience and omnipotence of the illuminati.

    Pick yer poison

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.

    More or less; cud-chewers will believe pretty much anything to avoid any blame falling on Jews.

    But it’s also about the defense industry. It’s a marriage made in Hell; Zionists give the defense establishment a place to expend inventory and budgets, justify its continued existence; Zionist media won’t be critical of the adventurism; Zionist oligarchs have already bought Congress; the defense establishment gives Zionists hegemony in the Middle East.

    And yes, there’s petrobucks to consider, and they do make a good 2nd tier fig leaf.

    Zuckerberg is really going down in flames. By now, the left hates his guts. I’m sure he was hoping for the Democratic nomination, but it’s never going to happen now.

    That was over no later than the day he admitted ownership of the “they trusted me – dumb fucks” quote.

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  60. @Anonymous
    Two thoughts on Zuck for President:

    1) If Facebook starts to become embroiled in litigation and regulation, this could give him further incentive to get out of that game. That sort of thing is just no fun. Politics could give him an excuse to extract himself. Give high-minded talks about how Facebook is committed to transparency and ethics, whatever, but leave the details to Sheryl - why not make her CEO, a win for women - and take the money and run.

    2) The fact that many leftists might start to despise him doesn't disqualify him. Many "conservatives" despised Trump, and voted for him anyway. I think leftists could come around to thinking about Zuck what many think about Trump: he might be a freak, but he's our freak.

    There are no actual leaders contending for the Democrats in 2020. Zuck, hate him or not, has achieved something, by any standard. (I personally despise Facebook and view it as a social evil.)

    I agree with all that and is part of the reason I am holding on to my devalued Zuck wins Dem Nomination shares. If he gets in, he wins because he can drop a billion on just the primary like it is no big deal, and he is unique for his youth, industry and not just another cautiously SJW senator.

    Why not wait? If Trump loses, that could lock up the Dem nomination in 2024, and then the Dem’s VP in 2028. Might be a matter of waiting 12 or even 16 more years, not 4. And demographic trends are not exactly favorable for a white guy running in Dem primaries.

    Zuck also seems to be fairly uninterested in sex drugs rock and roll, marrying the first girl he ever seriously dated. Meanwhile Kamala is childless and dated a much older Mayor Willie Brown. Would Asians block vote for him because of his wife the way blacks did for DeBlasio?

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  61. @anonymous
    This obsession with Syria has gotten bizarre and irrational. Syria as an intact state wasn't capable of engaging Israel in war as a peer enemy so the attempted destabilization of the country wasn't a good idea. Now what, throwing in good money after bad? Hopefully Syria doesn't become the Sarajevo of this century.

    I was too young to remember them, but there are all sorts of awesome articles and videos about Israel’s F15 and F16s blasting away Syria’s state of the art Russian air force in the 70s and 80s. The largest post Korean War dogfight was between Israel and Syria, with our guy winning 85-0.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

    http://www.military.com/video/forces/military-foreign-forces/operation-mole-cricket-19-a-personal-story/5467999697001

    Sparrows and sidewinders, brings back memories of playing SNES jet and helicopter video games and drinking Mountain Dew with my middle school friends!

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    • Replies: @fredyetagain aka superhonky
    "The largest post Korean War dogfight was between Israel and Syria, with our guy winning 85-0."

    Your guy, not our guy. If it was semite vs. semite, then White Christian Americans didn't have a guy in that battle.


    "Sparrows and sidewinders, brings back memories of playing SNES jet and helicopter video games and drinking Mountain Dew with my middle school friends!"

    What a warrior.

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  62. @songbird
    Like everyone, politics has surprised me a few times.

    Zuck has the ambition. I don't doubt that, but he's too dorky. He doesn't have a cult like Jobs did or Musk has currently. If Musk had been born in the US, he'd have been an easy bet I think.

    Low odds for Liz Warren too - she never faced a primary. Oprah doesn't need it. Who will it be? Someone Hispanic would be my guess. Got to keep in mind that they are probably running against Trump and know it long ahead of time.

    Respect your thoughts, but Hispanics can’t even win Democratic primaries in California where they outnumber us. Or even Los Angeles, which is majority Mexican and has a mayor with a ruddy-Irish looking father who is about as mestizo as Warren is Indian, and a Jewish mother. They won’t be winning any presidential primaries in our lifetimes.

    Sure Zuck is dorky, but do people actually care about that? A lot of people may see him as reassuringly bland after 4 years of the Trump Show and 8 Years of Barack Jesus DiversityStrength NotWhoWeAre. I posted at length about this cultural difference before, but people in the NE and South like politicians to be interesting, exciting, fun. Mini royal families. But in the Midwest we like politicans to be bland workhorses, ideally not from family wealth. Zuck fits the bill.

    So Zuck would suffer in the NE where he’d win anyway and the South where he’d lose anyway, but have this advantage where most of the swing states are.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    Zuckerberg has about the same chance at winning the presidential elections as winning American Idol.
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  63. Trump has said he will make a “major decision” in the next day about how to react to the suspected chemical attack.

    Everybody who has been paying attention for the past thirty years knows that there was no chemical attack. Quite aside from anything else, chemical weapons suck. They are unreliable, imprecise, illegal to the point of being causus belli for anyone who wants to throw their hat into the ring, and no government would use them in its own territory because you would have to clean them up. No government would drop nerve gas into an area that’s potentially upstream of its own water supply.

    The only combatant that would ever think of using chemical agents is one fighting far away on foreign soil. Agent Orange comes to mind.

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  64. Anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    The analysis explains Lieberman but not Israel or the situation. The best explanations are still that it's the pipelines and positioning for future dominance.

    Google ‘Genie Energy’ if you want to know what Israel’s skin in the game here is.

    TLDR: Massive oil play discovered in the Golan heights. Too bad they don’t technically own it, and with a strong and united Syria the Israeli’s probably would not be able to legally exploit and develop the resource. It’s a huge play– enough for decades of energy at Israel’s current rate of consumption.

    For laughs, look up the board of directors. I don’t know how to post images on here or else I would do it myself. It’s basically ‘Theranos meets the Bush Boys.’

    https://www.upi.com/Energy-News/2015/10/09/Major-reserve-discovery-confirmed-in-Golan-Heights/6461444389373/

    http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-grants-golan-heights-oil-license-2013-2

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ngos-golan-oil-drilling-illegal-1.5409304

    It’s so blatant that they are willing to get Americans and Russians killed so they can drill in stolen land that I’m actually pulling for the Iranians now.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you'll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.
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  65. @Lot
    Other than the quote from "Elliot Higgins" of the website "Bellingcat," I don't see any support in this article for your headline and first paragraph. Time and again, it has been the USA restraining Israel against pounding down its enemies, not the other way around.

    I keep hearing from anti-Israel sources that Israel prefers an ISIS win and the USA just does whatever Israel wants. But what actually happened in Syria and Iraq lately is we went in heavy against ISIS with thousands of ground troops and heavy bombing, while supporting Iraq's Iran-proxy Shiite government and pin-pricking Iran-proxy Assad.

    I think the best US policy is getting out if Syria and leaving it to the Turks and Russians, and for Israel to try to work out its problems with Iran the way they gradually have done with the Gulf states and Egypt. The long term goal is a free hand in the West Bank and to expel militant Muslim citizens of Israel, not an unwinnable war, cold or hot, with the much larger and oil-rich Iran.

    Finally, the actual involvement we have in Syria now and in the foreseeable future is mostly limited to protecting the Kurds from Assad and Turkey and tamping down the last remnants of ISIS in the desert around the Iraq border. This isn't especially helpful to Israel or harmful to Iran/Assad.

    Animal Netanyahu is murdering innocent civilians in Gaza, and animal Mohamed bin Salmen is murdering innocent civilians in Yemen.

    The US military should respond by destroying the Israeli and Saudi air force and navy.

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  66. @utu

    it’s the pipelines and positioning for future dominance
     
    Pipelines, oil, gold or whatever of material nature are the 2nd tier justifications for the wars in the ME. They are for the people who are too savvy who do not believe the news that the war is about the weapons of mass destruction or bringing democracy and saving women and children. In this group are also people who believe that wars are good for economy or at least for the MIC. They are cynical and pragmatic people like Texan oilmen and military contractors who will support these wars just for these reasons and various leftists will oppose these wars for the same reason. But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel. The planned and desired outcome of the wars are weakened and balkanized states w/o ability to create functioning state and society. No schools, no hospitals, no factories, no army, no infrastructure but just chaos with tribal and sectarian fighting which can be fueled by supporting the faction opposing to the one that is about to solidify power. This can go ad infinitum.

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.

    Well, here’s an intriguing data point. In glancing over this comment-thread and a couple of other recent ones on the similar topic, I’ve noticed that it’s basically the fanatic Jewish-activist types like “Lot”, “Jack D”, and “Dmitry” who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia. Relatively few other commenters seem to be taking this position.

    If those Jewish-activist types represent (say) 10% of the regular commentariate but 90% of the harsher warmongers, that’s an interesting statistical fact.

    Surely this seems to strongly support the Russia Insider hypothesis that was published a few weeks ago about who’s really behind the crazy anti-Russia activism, which seems totally obvious to anyone with a few functioning brain cells…

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    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @Lot
    I don't care one way or another if we attack Syria. I suppose I am mildly opposed. And I am definitely opposed to Trump wasting our million dollar each Tomahawks by firing 59 of them at a single low value target like the last attack. That is what F-18s and B-52s are for. When Muslims bait us into stupid asymmetrical warfare like this, we always lose, even if the mission is performed flawlessly, which is the norm for our brave soldiers.

    As for Russia, only by the standards of this site am I anti Russia. I have said a few times I find that your old friend Daniel Larison best captures my view. Unlike the entire establishment of both parties (except for the excellent Rep Dana R. and a couple others), and all of the EU, I support Russia's annexation of Crimea as in conformity with historical, ethnic, and language factors.
    , @anon
    https://youtu.be/Bqya8HBtZ6I

    One America News is saying that the 'White Helmets' staged the chemical attacks.
    , @utu

    Jewish-activist types like “Lot”, “Jack D”, and “Dmitry” who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia
     
    I would like to read some analysis how this activism is organized or how much it is a spontaneous grass root. How do Jews know what is good for Jews? Israel Shamir years ago brought up this issue but I do not think he found satisfactory answer:

    http://www.israelshamir.net/Books/pardes.htm
    Our goal is to understand and explain what 'the Jews' want. This task will be a hard one, for the Jews have no obvious leaders who create a single strategy -- no headquarters or central command. It is difficult to accept that the Jews can have a strategy yet no strategist; the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are popular precisely because they posit such a supreme (if obscure) strategist. However, 'the locusts have no king, yet but they attack in formation' (Proverbs 30:27) -- and devastate whole countries as if by plan!
     
    , @Lot
    I have a website suggestion.

    It is very difficult to use the blockquote feature on a mobile device. Could "& and &" be rendered as the start and ending of a block quote? The " and & keys are both in the "numbers" menu of the ios keyboard, not buried in a symbols screen, and would never be used right together in an actual quotation. For example,

    "& It isn't a big deal to just use quotation marks while on mobile, but blockquotes do look better. &"
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  67. @bartok

    Israelis just want the war to continue to keep gentiles fighting gentiles while they themselves watch and cackle with glee.
     
    They also tremble with fear, glow with pride, kvetch with infinite self-pity, etc., etc., etc. They are voluble.

    It would be great if those energetic, voluble, competent Israelis could be given a contract to build the Trump Wall. Bibi could be appointed U.S. Wall Czar, after he is ousted from his current office by the Israeli justice system. One can dream.

    It would be great if those energetic, voluble, competent Israelis could be given a contract to build the Trump Wall.

    Looked online for a clip from the de Mille Ten Commandments movie depicting the retconned bit of Egyptian history known as the Brick Pit Scene.

    No luck.

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  68. @Ron Unz

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.
     
    Well, here's an intriguing data point. In glancing over this comment-thread and a couple of other recent ones on the similar topic, I've noticed that it's basically the fanatic Jewish-activist types like "Lot", "Jack D", and "Dmitry" who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia. Relatively few other commenters seem to be taking this position.

    If those Jewish-activist types represent (say) 10% of the regular commentariate but 90% of the harsher warmongers, that's an interesting statistical fact.

    Surely this seems to strongly support the Russia Insider hypothesis that was published a few weeks ago about who's really behind the crazy anti-Russia activism, which seems totally obvious to anyone with a few functioning brain cells...

    I don’t care one way or another if we attack Syria. I suppose I am mildly opposed. And I am definitely opposed to Trump wasting our million dollar each Tomahawks by firing 59 of them at a single low value target like the last attack. That is what F-18s and B-52s are for. When Muslims bait us into stupid asymmetrical warfare like this, we always lose, even if the mission is performed flawlessly, which is the norm for our brave soldiers.

    As for Russia, only by the standards of this site am I anti Russia. I have said a few times I find that your old friend Daniel Larison best captures my view. Unlike the entire establishment of both parties (except for the excellent Rep Dana R. and a couple others), and all of the EU, I support Russia’s annexation of Crimea as in conformity with historical, ethnic, and language factors.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    That is a fascinating first sentence. Imagine reading a commenter whose opening line was, "oh, I guess I could go either way with regard to declaring Jews to be enemies of the state and rounding them up," or, "Ya know, I just don't have a dog in the pedophilia legalization fight."
    , @HogHappenin
    Is anyone "baiting" the US into war? Except those "hebrews" who are a yuuuggeee part of the "neocon" establishment? Haven't they been "baiting" the US into endless killing and dying? How many innocent lives have been lost both American and foreign due to this "baiting"?

    And Assad is actually winning the war and Russia (along with Iran) played a solid role in that? Why would he want Uncle Sam's "heroes" barging at? How would it help him? If anything, he wants nothing to do with the US and after this episode, I'm sure whatever little links he had with the US would be permanently shut and he'd tilt even more towards Russia.

    You are quite similar to those "neocons" who have hijacked the conservative agenda to further their cause all the while deflecting the blame
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  69. @Anon
    OT: It turns out the most popular Black Lives Matter Facebook donation page was a scam run by a white Aussie guy. The main BLM had contacted Facebook months ago with concerns about the site, and got ignored.

    Zuckerberg is really going down in flames. By now, the left hates his guts. I'm sure he was hoping for the Democratic nomination, but it's never going to happen now.

    I've concluded the Deep State doesn't want Zuck in office, which is why they're turning on him. Under Obama, various government departments got used to running things their own way and building up their own little fiefdoms. They last guy they want as president is Mr. Spy-In-Chief. Zuckerberg is both energetic and nosy, and that's a combination distressing to Deep State types who want to be left alone to plot their skullduggery in peace. They don't want Zuck popping up behind their shoulders and saying, "Now what are you doing there?" They also, after Trump, don't want any more outsiders to gain the presidency. They want someone who thinks like themselves, a tame professional politician, and not some guy who thinks for himself and fundamentally disagrees with their policies.

    I’ve concluded the Deep State doesn’t want Zuck in office, which is why they’re turning on him.

    Your theory makes perfect sense except for one vital caveat: I’m pretty sure you’re one of the relatively few people who ever believed Mark Zuckerberg was a potential future President. There’s no way he could ever be nominated, let alone win the general election.

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  70. @Anon
    Google 'Genie Energy' if you want to know what Israel's skin in the game here is.

    TLDR: Massive oil play discovered in the Golan heights. Too bad they don't technically own it, and with a strong and united Syria the Israeli's probably would not be able to legally exploit and develop the resource. It's a huge play-- enough for decades of energy at Israel's current rate of consumption.

    For laughs, look up the board of directors. I don't know how to post images on here or else I would do it myself. It's basically 'Theranos meets the Bush Boys.'

    https://www.upi.com/Energy-News/2015/10/09/Major-reserve-discovery-confirmed-in-Golan-Heights/6461444389373/

    http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-grants-golan-heights-oil-license-2013-2

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ngos-golan-oil-drilling-illegal-1.5409304

    It's so blatant that they are willing to get Americans and Russians killed so they can drill in stolen land that I'm actually pulling for the Iranians now.

    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you’ll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    There is no such thing as "lawfully conquered" and almost no Indian land was conquered.
    , @Anon
    "Lawfully Conquered"

    So can I "lawfully" mutilate you? Or round up some friends and "lawfully" gangrape your wife? Theft is theft, and if the Golan Heights are part of the ancient Land of Israel, then they are also part of the ancient land of a dozen or more other people who lived in the region before and after the Jews, so you have no special claim to legitimacy. And unlike your typical jew sophist reductions, there are no restrictions whatsoever on American Indians settling anywhere they like in America. Can you same for Syrians seeking to return to the Golan heights?

    I will be flabbergasted if you answer the above question of course: direct discourse and honesty is neither your in your predilections, nor in the interest of your cause.

    Examining your logic more deeply, I suppose that since everything is on the up-and-up with invading other countries as long (as (((you people))) do it), that the allies should have never stepped in to stop Herr Hitler, either? I guess there are few problems we could have sidestepped if we had taken that course of action and frankly, I'm inclined to agree with your point of view, in that singular case.

    Still it's amusing to me how you spend your entire post dancing around the issue of how your people's war and genocide should be financed by Americans, and prosecuted by Americans. Murder little Syrian children on your own dime, not ours.
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  71. @Lot
    I was too young to remember them, but there are all sorts of awesome articles and videos about Israel's F15 and F16s blasting away Syria's state of the art Russian air force in the 70s and 80s. The largest post Korean War dogfight was between Israel and Syria, with our guy winning 85-0.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=laD9yQa-JaM&feature=related

    http://www.military.com/video/forces/military-foreign-forces/operation-mole-cricket-19-a-personal-story/5467999697001

    Sparrows and sidewinders, brings back memories of playing SNES jet and helicopter video games and drinking Mountain Dew with my middle school friends!

    “The largest post Korean War dogfight was between Israel and Syria, with our guy winning 85-0.”

    Your guy, not our guy. If it was semite vs. semite, then White Christian Americans didn’t have a guy in that battle.

    “Sparrows and sidewinders, brings back memories of playing SNES jet and helicopter video games and drinking Mountain Dew with my middle school friends!”

    What a warrior.

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    • LOL: utu
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  72. @Lot
    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you'll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.

    There is no such thing as “lawfully conquered” and almost no Indian land was conquered.

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  73. @Lot
    I don't care one way or another if we attack Syria. I suppose I am mildly opposed. And I am definitely opposed to Trump wasting our million dollar each Tomahawks by firing 59 of them at a single low value target like the last attack. That is what F-18s and B-52s are for. When Muslims bait us into stupid asymmetrical warfare like this, we always lose, even if the mission is performed flawlessly, which is the norm for our brave soldiers.

    As for Russia, only by the standards of this site am I anti Russia. I have said a few times I find that your old friend Daniel Larison best captures my view. Unlike the entire establishment of both parties (except for the excellent Rep Dana R. and a couple others), and all of the EU, I support Russia's annexation of Crimea as in conformity with historical, ethnic, and language factors.

    That is a fascinating first sentence. Imagine reading a commenter whose opening line was, “oh, I guess I could go either way with regard to declaring Jews to be enemies of the state and rounding them up,” or, “Ya know, I just don’t have a dog in the pedophilia legalization fight.”

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  74. Anon[228] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Lot
    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you'll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.

    “Lawfully Conquered”

    So can I “lawfully” mutilate you? Or round up some friends and “lawfully” gangrape your wife? Theft is theft, and if the Golan Heights are part of the ancient Land of Israel, then they are also part of the ancient land of a dozen or more other people who lived in the region before and after the Jews, so you have no special claim to legitimacy. And unlike your typical jew sophist reductions, there are no restrictions whatsoever on American Indians settling anywhere they like in America. Can you same for Syrians seeking to return to the Golan heights?

    I will be flabbergasted if you answer the above question of course: direct discourse and honesty is neither your in your predilections, nor in the interest of your cause.

    Examining your logic more deeply, I suppose that since everything is on the up-and-up with invading other countries as long (as (((you people))) do it), that the allies should have never stepped in to stop Herr Hitler, either? I guess there are few problems we could have sidestepped if we had taken that course of action and frankly, I’m inclined to agree with your point of view, in that singular case.

    Still it’s amusing to me how you spend your entire post dancing around the issue of how your people’s war and genocide should be financed by Americans, and prosecuted by Americans. Murder little Syrian children on your own dime, not ours.

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  75. @TheBoom
    Maybe, the most telling summation of why waging another fruitless war in that region is just who we are was delivered by a Senator from Mississippi. Tucker Carlson asked him how a war in Syria would make us safer and the senator's reply started with “well, if you care about Israel…”

    Let's face it, only a Nazi puppet of Putin wouldn't want to wage a war that is harmful to the US citizenry by increasing terrorism and putting the US into deeper debt, will lead to even more dead Syrians, help ISIS and open the door to even more genocide of Christians in the region.

    You should provide exact quotes of the exchange in order to avoid understating your point, which you do terribly by saying that Tucker asked him “how a war in Syria would make us safer.” Weak tea, there, because Israeli apologists would say “Oh, he’s asking about humanity, how to make humanity safer.” Let’s expose Senator Roger Wicker for the horrible sellout of a human being that he is. He is so low, wiping the bottom of a deplorable American among his constituents would represent an increase in his actions in support of them.

    Exact question: “What is the American national security interest that would be served by regime change in Syria?”

    Wicker: “Well, if you care about Israel, you have to be interested at least.”

    To his credit, later in the segment, Tucker Carlson tries to get back to the question, “but I just want to get back to the core question that I think a lot of voters have, which is, ‘What’s the American national security interest served?’ You said ‘If you care about Israel…”, and I do care about Israel, but what’s the American national security interest that would be served by regime change? You can think of a lot of potential downsides: deaths, cost, etc…”

    The initial exchange in this interview, the question and first answer, are a perfect illustration of the depravity and corruption of elected officials in the US. The American people should be ashamed that they don’t have the gumption to rise up and tar and feather these people in the public square.

    Frankie P

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    • Agree: Dan Hayes, utu
    • Replies: @Mishra
    Ya know, if the Dems are gonna run someone like Kamala Harris or Oprah Winfrey (or both) the Reps should run Tucker Carlson. That would be a contest worth the name. However, I doubt Tucker has the stomach for the nasty nature of our politics. Then again, he sort of marinates in it already....
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  76. @Lot
    Respect your thoughts, but Hispanics can't even win Democratic primaries in California where they outnumber us. Or even Los Angeles, which is majority Mexican and has a mayor with a ruddy-Irish looking father who is about as mestizo as Warren is Indian, and a Jewish mother. They won't be winning any presidential primaries in our lifetimes.

    Sure Zuck is dorky, but do people actually care about that? A lot of people may see him as reassuringly bland after 4 years of the Trump Show and 8 Years of Barack Jesus DiversityStrength NotWhoWeAre. I posted at length about this cultural difference before, but people in the NE and South like politicians to be interesting, exciting, fun. Mini royal families. But in the Midwest we like politicans to be bland workhorses, ideally not from family wealth. Zuck fits the bill.

    So Zuck would suffer in the NE where he'd win anyway and the South where he'd lose anyway, but have this advantage where most of the swing states are.

    Zuckerberg has about the same chance at winning the presidential elections as winning American Idol.

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  77. Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you’ll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.

    Jews are a trip. Quick history lesson:

    1. Right of Conquest is the norm.
    2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine. The same Jews who badmouth the Right of Conquest when YT does it, BTW.

    P.S., Ex post facto law is a pretty obvious desperation argument.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    My favorite thing about Zionists using this argument is that none of them understand that they are justifying Palestinian terrorism or Arab wars.
    , @Lot
    "2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine."

    You say the "right if conquest stops being the norm" "more than a century" before the Jewish conquest, so before 1849.

    Some questions for you.

    When did China conquer Tibet?
    When did India conquer Goa?
    When did the Russia conquer Konigsberg?
    When did the United States conquer Puerto Rico?
    When did the United States conquer Hawaii?
    When did Germany conquer Schleswig?
    When did the United Kingdom conquer German Southwest Africa?
    When did Germany conquer Alsace?
    When did France reconquer Alsace?
    When did Russia conquer Crimea?
    When did Morocco conquer Western Sahara?
    When did Greece conquer Crete and Alexandroupoli?


    Read more history and speak less about it meanwhile.

    , @Lot
    "Ex post facto law"

    You don't know what phrases means, which is the attachment of criminal or civil penalties to acts that were legal when committed.

    I can only guess that you mean Jews did not believe in conquest until it suited their purpose. This is irrelevant, your belief as to whether you enjoy a right granted by God, nature, or government does not change the reality of having it or not.

    There's no evidence of this you provide either, and "Right of Conquest" is nothing I've ever seem used to defend Israel by anyone other than me. The actual explicit defense usually has something to do with the Bible. I agree with that defense too, but Unz.com readers seem to be overwhelmingly secular.
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  78. @Svigor

    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you’ll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.
     
    Jews are a trip. Quick history lesson:

    1. Right of Conquest is the norm.
    2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine. The same Jews who badmouth the Right of Conquest when YT does it, BTW.

    P.S., Ex post facto law is a pretty obvious desperation argument.

    My favorite thing about Zionists using this argument is that none of them understand that they are justifying Palestinian terrorism or Arab wars.

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  79. @Ron Unz

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.
     
    Well, here's an intriguing data point. In glancing over this comment-thread and a couple of other recent ones on the similar topic, I've noticed that it's basically the fanatic Jewish-activist types like "Lot", "Jack D", and "Dmitry" who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia. Relatively few other commenters seem to be taking this position.

    If those Jewish-activist types represent (say) 10% of the regular commentariate but 90% of the harsher warmongers, that's an interesting statistical fact.

    Surely this seems to strongly support the Russia Insider hypothesis that was published a few weeks ago about who's really behind the crazy anti-Russia activism, which seems totally obvious to anyone with a few functioning brain cells...

    One America News is saying that the ‘White Helmets’ staged the chemical attacks.

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  80. anon[358] • Disclaimer says:

    On the basis of the foregoing, the Leadership Panel is confident that ISIL is responsible for the use of sulfur mustard at Umm Hawsh on 15 and 16 September 2016. The findings of the Leadership Panel regarding the evidence in this case are based on the information set forth in detail in annex I.

    But…

    https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/N1734930.pdf

    Page 10/33

    On the basis of the foregoing, the Leadership Panel is confident that the Syrian Arab Republic is responsible for the release of sarin at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017. The findings of the Leadership Panel regarding the evidence in this case are based on the information set forth in detail in annex II.

    While the OPCW Fact-Finding Mission in the Syrian Arab Republic works to establish the facts surrounding allegations of the use of toxic chemicals for hostile purposes in the country, it is not mandated to reach conclusions about attributing responsibility for chemical weapons use.1 Following a determination by the Fact- Finding Mission that a specific incident in the Syrian Arab Republic involved or likely involved the use of chemicals as weapons, the Mechanism conducts an investigation to identify, to the greatest extent feasible, the perpetrators, organizers, sponsors or those otherwise involved. In conducting its investigation,…

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  81. http://www.oann.com/secy-mattis-still-assessing-intelligence-in-syria-military-option-on-table/

    We’re still assessing the intelligence – ourselves and our allies, Secretary Mattis said. “We’re still working on this. We stand ready to provide military options if they’re appropriate as the president determined.

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  82. @Ron Unz

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.
     
    Well, here's an intriguing data point. In glancing over this comment-thread and a couple of other recent ones on the similar topic, I've noticed that it's basically the fanatic Jewish-activist types like "Lot", "Jack D", and "Dmitry" who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia. Relatively few other commenters seem to be taking this position.

    If those Jewish-activist types represent (say) 10% of the regular commentariate but 90% of the harsher warmongers, that's an interesting statistical fact.

    Surely this seems to strongly support the Russia Insider hypothesis that was published a few weeks ago about who's really behind the crazy anti-Russia activism, which seems totally obvious to anyone with a few functioning brain cells...

    Jewish-activist types like “Lot”, “Jack D”, and “Dmitry” who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia

    I would like to read some analysis how this activism is organized or how much it is a spontaneous grass root. How do Jews know what is good for Jews? Israel Shamir years ago brought up this issue but I do not think he found satisfactory answer:

    http://www.israelshamir.net/Books/pardes.htm
    Our goal is to understand and explain what ‘the Jews’ want. This task will be a hard one, for the Jews have no obvious leaders who create a single strategy — no headquarters or central command. It is difficult to accept that the Jews can have a strategy yet no strategist; the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are popular precisely because they posit such a supreme (if obscure) strategist. However, ‘the locusts have no king, yet but they attack in formation’ (Proverbs 30:27) — and devastate whole countries as if by plan!

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  83. OPCW Fact-Finding Missions are convincing. Their attempts to assign responsibility are speculative.

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  84. @Karl
    39 Anon > If only there was a large, militarily heavy-weight country that was hostile to Iran and that lay between it and Israel

    didja hear the joke about the American guy who google'd the (erstwhile) military assets and manpower of Iraq, and started to imagine that Iraq was a regional dominant military power?

    didja hear the joke about the American guy who google’d the (erstwhile) military assets and manpower of Iraq, and started to imagine that Iraq was a regional dominant military power?

    They were a paper tiger when pitted against the U.S., but they were able to fight Iran to a standstill (albeit with some help) for eight years.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Iraq was a regional power and was built up as such by nearly every single industrialized and weapons-exporting country in the West in order to answer the Iranian revolution. The biggest joke of Iran-Contra is that everybody was in on it, even the Swedes.
    But notice, Iran, with much weaker resources other than having more and smarter people, was able to stop Iraq, and only screwed up when they became hubristic and attempted a reverse invasion. Arabs tend to not use their weapons to the full potential. Missiles have guidance equipment removed to make room for more fuel (I didn't believe this but it's true). Tanks are used, not as tanks, but as artillery pieces.
    There was the electrified swamp, though. One of the wierder weapons was Iran releasing a massive amount of natural gas on a cold and humid day, and hoping it would mainly accrue around Iraqi positions in shallow valleys. It was kind of like if two seven year olds were in charge of developing world armies, except that no kid looks at a tank and wants it to stay put.
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  85. @Svigor

    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you’ll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.
     
    Jews are a trip. Quick history lesson:

    1. Right of Conquest is the norm.
    2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine. The same Jews who badmouth the Right of Conquest when YT does it, BTW.

    P.S., Ex post facto law is a pretty obvious desperation argument.

    “2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine.”

    You say the “right if conquest stops being the norm” “more than a century” before the Jewish conquest, so before 1849.

    Some questions for you.

    When did China conquer Tibet?
    When did India conquer Goa?
    When did the Russia conquer Konigsberg?
    When did the United States conquer Puerto Rico?
    When did the United States conquer Hawaii?
    When did Germany conquer Schleswig?
    When did the United Kingdom conquer German Southwest Africa?
    When did Germany conquer Alsace?
    When did France reconquer Alsace?
    When did Russia conquer Crimea?
    When did Morocco conquer Western Sahara?
    When did Greece conquer Crete and Alexandroupoli?

    Read more history and speak less about it meanwhile.

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  86. @Svigor

    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you’ll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.
     
    Jews are a trip. Quick history lesson:

    1. Right of Conquest is the norm.
    2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine. The same Jews who badmouth the Right of Conquest when YT does it, BTW.

    P.S., Ex post facto law is a pretty obvious desperation argument.

    “Ex post facto law”

    You don’t know what phrases means, which is the attachment of criminal or civil penalties to acts that were legal when committed.

    I can only guess that you mean Jews did not believe in conquest until it suited their purpose. This is irrelevant, your belief as to whether you enjoy a right granted by God, nature, or government does not change the reality of having it or not.

    There’s no evidence of this you provide either, and “Right of Conquest” is nothing I’ve ever seem used to defend Israel by anyone other than me. The actual explicit defense usually has something to do with the Bible. I agree with that defense too, but Unz.com readers seem to be overwhelmingly secular.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    >I've never seen other Jews using right of conquest
    I have, multiple times, and have seen it sometimes used by Evangelical Christian friends of Likud. It's definitely a set line and they clearly do not use it more often because it's such a self-explanatorily terrible argument.
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  87. @Mr. Anon

    didja hear the joke about the American guy who google’d the (erstwhile) military assets and manpower of Iraq, and started to imagine that Iraq was a regional dominant military power?
     
    They were a paper tiger when pitted against the U.S., but they were able to fight Iran to a standstill (albeit with some help) for eight years.

    Iraq was a regional power and was built up as such by nearly every single industrialized and weapons-exporting country in the West in order to answer the Iranian revolution. The biggest joke of Iran-Contra is that everybody was in on it, even the Swedes.
    But notice, Iran, with much weaker resources other than having more and smarter people, was able to stop Iraq, and only screwed up when they became hubristic and attempted a reverse invasion. Arabs tend to not use their weapons to the full potential. Missiles have guidance equipment removed to make room for more fuel (I didn’t believe this but it’s true). Tanks are used, not as tanks, but as artillery pieces.
    There was the electrified swamp, though. One of the wierder weapons was Iran releasing a massive amount of natural gas on a cold and humid day, and hoping it would mainly accrue around Iraqi positions in shallow valleys. It was kind of like if two seven year olds were in charge of developing world armies, except that no kid looks at a tank and wants it to stay put.

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    • Replies: @utu

    Arabs tend to not use their weapons to the full potential.
     
    Iranians are not Arabs.
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  88. @Lot
    "Ex post facto law"

    You don't know what phrases means, which is the attachment of criminal or civil penalties to acts that were legal when committed.

    I can only guess that you mean Jews did not believe in conquest until it suited their purpose. This is irrelevant, your belief as to whether you enjoy a right granted by God, nature, or government does not change the reality of having it or not.

    There's no evidence of this you provide either, and "Right of Conquest" is nothing I've ever seem used to defend Israel by anyone other than me. The actual explicit defense usually has something to do with the Bible. I agree with that defense too, but Unz.com readers seem to be overwhelmingly secular.

    >I’ve never seen other Jews using right of conquest
    I have, multiple times, and have seen it sometimes used by Evangelical Christian friends of Likud. It’s definitely a set line and they clearly do not use it more often because it’s such a self-explanatorily terrible argument.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Thanks, I've not seen it myself but I don't run in evangelical circles.

    It isn't a terrible argument, it is both true and requires no religious belief.

    To put another way, at some point conquests must be and actually are accepted as the reality on the ground, and their theoretical injustice becomes irrelevant. The vast majority of both the conquerors and the vanquished in Israel's founding are now long dead.

    In our common law you get 20 years to expel a squatter or other claimant occupying your land. The Arabs have had 70 years and are no closer than in 1950. Their claims to the land if Israel are stale and lapsed beyond repair, and should they nonetheless press them violently, Israel is right to respond and this may include moderate additional reconquests in Judea and Samara of land the Arabs, Greeks, Turks, Egyptians and Romans took from their ancestors as their just reparations and fruits of victory.

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  89. @J.Ross
    Iraq was a regional power and was built up as such by nearly every single industrialized and weapons-exporting country in the West in order to answer the Iranian revolution. The biggest joke of Iran-Contra is that everybody was in on it, even the Swedes.
    But notice, Iran, with much weaker resources other than having more and smarter people, was able to stop Iraq, and only screwed up when they became hubristic and attempted a reverse invasion. Arabs tend to not use their weapons to the full potential. Missiles have guidance equipment removed to make room for more fuel (I didn't believe this but it's true). Tanks are used, not as tanks, but as artillery pieces.
    There was the electrified swamp, though. One of the wierder weapons was Iran releasing a massive amount of natural gas on a cold and humid day, and hoping it would mainly accrue around Iraqi positions in shallow valleys. It was kind of like if two seven year olds were in charge of developing world armies, except that no kid looks at a tank and wants it to stay put.

    Arabs tend to not use their weapons to the full potential.

    Iranians are not Arabs.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Indeed. Thus my points about Iraqis burying tanks and Iranians having more and better people.
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  90. @utu

    Arabs tend to not use their weapons to the full potential.
     
    Iranians are not Arabs.

    Indeed. Thus my points about Iraqis burying tanks and Iranians having more and better people.

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  91. @Frankie P
    You should provide exact quotes of the exchange in order to avoid understating your point, which you do terribly by saying that Tucker asked him "how a war in Syria would make us safer." Weak tea, there, because Israeli apologists would say "Oh, he's asking about humanity, how to make humanity safer." Let's expose Senator Roger Wicker for the horrible sellout of a human being that he is. He is so low, wiping the bottom of a deplorable American among his constituents would represent an increase in his actions in support of them.

    Exact question: "What is the American national security interest that would be served by regime change in Syria?"

    Wicker: "Well, if you care about Israel, you have to be interested at least."

    To his credit, later in the segment, Tucker Carlson tries to get back to the question, "but I just want to get back to the core question that I think a lot of voters have, which is, 'What's the American national security interest served?' You said 'If you care about Israel...", and I do care about Israel, but what's the American national security interest that would be served by regime change? You can think of a lot of potential downsides: deaths, cost, etc..."

    The initial exchange in this interview, the question and first answer, are a perfect illustration of the depravity and corruption of elected officials in the US. The American people should be ashamed that they don't have the gumption to rise up and tar and feather these people in the public square.

    Frankie P

    Ya know, if the Dems are gonna run someone like Kamala Harris or Oprah Winfrey (or both) the Reps should run Tucker Carlson. That would be a contest worth the name. However, I doubt Tucker has the stomach for the nasty nature of our politics. Then again, he sort of marinates in it already….

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  92. @Lot
    I don't care one way or another if we attack Syria. I suppose I am mildly opposed. And I am definitely opposed to Trump wasting our million dollar each Tomahawks by firing 59 of them at a single low value target like the last attack. That is what F-18s and B-52s are for. When Muslims bait us into stupid asymmetrical warfare like this, we always lose, even if the mission is performed flawlessly, which is the norm for our brave soldiers.

    As for Russia, only by the standards of this site am I anti Russia. I have said a few times I find that your old friend Daniel Larison best captures my view. Unlike the entire establishment of both parties (except for the excellent Rep Dana R. and a couple others), and all of the EU, I support Russia's annexation of Crimea as in conformity with historical, ethnic, and language factors.

    Is anyone “baiting” the US into war? Except those “hebrews” who are a yuuuggeee part of the “neocon” establishment? Haven’t they been “baiting” the US into endless killing and dying? How many innocent lives have been lost both American and foreign due to this “baiting”?

    And Assad is actually winning the war and Russia (along with Iran) played a solid role in that? Why would he want Uncle Sam’s “heroes” barging at? How would it help him? If anything, he wants nothing to do with the US and after this episode, I’m sure whatever little links he had with the US would be permanently shut and he’d tilt even more towards Russia.

    You are quite similar to those “neocons” who have hijacked the conservative agenda to further their cause all the while deflecting the blame

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  93. When did China conquer Tibet?
    When did India conquer Goa?
    When did the Russia conquer Konigsberg?
    When did the United States conquer Puerto Rico?
    When did the United States conquer Hawaii?
    When did Germany conquer Schleswig?
    When did the United Kingdom conquer German Southwest Africa?
    When did Germany conquer Alsace?
    When did France reconquer Alsace?
    When did Russia conquer Crimea?
    When did Morocco conquer Western Sahara?
    When did Greece conquer Crete and Alexandroupoli?

    Read more history and speak less about it meanwhile.

    Not sure what your point is. That I would oppose all of these territories going back to their previous owners?

    To that I say, “Puerto Rican Independence Now!”

    You don’t know what phrases means, which is the attachment of criminal or civil penalties to acts that were legal when committed.

    I can only guess that you mean Jews did not believe in conquest until it suited their purpose. This is irrelevant, your belief as to whether you enjoy a right granted by God, nature, or government does not change the reality of having it or not.

    I’ll quote the relevant bits again:

    Quick history lesson:

    1. Right of Conquest is the norm.
    2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine. The same Jews who badmouth the Right of Conquest when YT does it, BTW.

    Lot said:

    Golan was lawfully conquered and annexed in a just war more than half a century ago. It is part of the ancient Land of Israel and populated by Israelis.

    If you want to equate conquest and theft, you’ll need to turn over the deed to your house to the nearest Indian tribe first.

    Emphasis added.

    Get it now?

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  94. @J.Ross
    >I've never seen other Jews using right of conquest
    I have, multiple times, and have seen it sometimes used by Evangelical Christian friends of Likud. It's definitely a set line and they clearly do not use it more often because it's such a self-explanatorily terrible argument.

    Thanks, I’ve not seen it myself but I don’t run in evangelical circles.

    It isn’t a terrible argument, it is both true and requires no religious belief.

    To put another way, at some point conquests must be and actually are accepted as the reality on the ground, and their theoretical injustice becomes irrelevant. The vast majority of both the conquerors and the vanquished in Israel’s founding are now long dead.

    In our common law you get 20 years to expel a squatter or other claimant occupying your land. The Arabs have had 70 years and are no closer than in 1950. Their claims to the land if Israel are stale and lapsed beyond repair, and should they nonetheless press them violently, Israel is right to respond and this may include moderate additional reconquests in Judea and Samara of land the Arabs, Greeks, Turks, Egyptians and Romans took from their ancestors as their just reparations and fruits of victory.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If someone conquered Israel today, how many people would they have to kill for you to congratulate them on their sportsmanship? It's nonsense. Conquest is outside of law. Legally it's rape, and is as legal as rape. Its entire philosophical underpinning is "I am stronger than you at the moment and do not care about anything else."
    >but if you own a house you don't live in and a homeless guy starts residing in it
    Okay, buddy. I think you meant to type, "and a homeless guy opens your skull with a length of lead pipe, beats his chest like King Kong, and screams 'Victory.'" In which case you would not be submitting many codicils.
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  95. @Ron Unz

    But even for them it would be beyond the pale to accept the 1st tier truth about the wars in the ME that they are about destruction of the ME states (in particularly semi secular states) and implementation of the Yinon and PNAC plans for the future of Israel.
     
    Well, here's an intriguing data point. In glancing over this comment-thread and a couple of other recent ones on the similar topic, I've noticed that it's basically the fanatic Jewish-activist types like "Lot", "Jack D", and "Dmitry" who are so eager for a Western attack on Syria and hostile to Russia. Relatively few other commenters seem to be taking this position.

    If those Jewish-activist types represent (say) 10% of the regular commentariate but 90% of the harsher warmongers, that's an interesting statistical fact.

    Surely this seems to strongly support the Russia Insider hypothesis that was published a few weeks ago about who's really behind the crazy anti-Russia activism, which seems totally obvious to anyone with a few functioning brain cells...

    I have a website suggestion.

    It is very difficult to use the blockquote feature on a mobile device. Could “& and &” be rendered as the start and ending of a block quote? The ” and & keys are both in the “numbers” menu of the ios keyboard, not buried in a symbols screen, and would never be used right together in an actual quotation. For example,

    “& It isn’t a big deal to just use quotation marks while on mobile, but blockquotes do look better. &”

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  96. @Jack D
    Right, because the Russians never lie about what they are doing in Syria. Or the Iranians. Or Hezbollah. Or Assad when he gasses his own people. Lying about what is happening in Syria is the rule, not the exception.

    Or Assad when he gasses his own people

    You were doing so well for MANY words, and then you went and said the stupid.

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  97. To put another way, at some point conquests must be and actually are accepted as the reality on the ground, and their theoretical injustice becomes irrelevant. The vast majority of both the conquerors and the vanquished in Israel’s founding are now long dead.

    In our common law you get 20 years to expel a squatter or other claimant occupying your land. The Arabs have had 70 years and are no closer than in 1950. Their claims to the land if Israel are stale and lapsed beyond repair, and should they nonetheless press them violently, Israel is right to respond and this may include moderate additional reconquests in Judea and Samara of land the Arabs, Greeks, Turks, Egyptians and Romans took from their ancestors as their just reparations and fruits of victory.

    Nah. The Pals have never stopped fighting and agitating against Jewish occupation. Every day they continue, the clock gets reset to 0.

    Then there are the claims of the true owners of the land, the Canaanites, as documented in the Jewish scriptures…

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    • Replies: @Lot
    "Every day they continue, the clock gets reset to 0."

    So it isn't facts on the ground, decade after decade of complete and unbroken control, generation after generation being born under the laws of Israel on land governed by Israel, but the thought that counts? According to you then, the endless and violent failures of the Arabs puts them in better situation than the various non barbaric people who have accepted their defeat honorably and moved on? (The Baltic Germans for example).

    I am sure you could find some American Indians in any particular generation since our conquest who agitated and argued for their old land back. Some violently like Wounded Knee and that New Mexican courthouse occupation. And unlike the Arabs, who keep losing even more land every year due to their stupidity, American Indians have steadily been gaining ground in seeing more tribal lands recognized. So I will ask again, when you signing over the deed to your house to the Apache?
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  98. @Svigor

    To put another way, at some point conquests must be and actually are accepted as the reality on the ground, and their theoretical injustice becomes irrelevant. The vast majority of both the conquerors and the vanquished in Israel’s founding are now long dead.

    In our common law you get 20 years to expel a squatter or other claimant occupying your land. The Arabs have had 70 years and are no closer than in 1950. Their claims to the land if Israel are stale and lapsed beyond repair, and should they nonetheless press them violently, Israel is right to respond and this may include moderate additional reconquests in Judea and Samara of land the Arabs, Greeks, Turks, Egyptians and Romans took from their ancestors as their just reparations and fruits of victory.
     
    Nah. The Pals have never stopped fighting and agitating against Jewish occupation. Every day they continue, the clock gets reset to 0.

    Then there are the claims of the true owners of the land, the Canaanites, as documented in the Jewish scriptures...

    “Every day they continue, the clock gets reset to 0.”

    So it isn’t facts on the ground, decade after decade of complete and unbroken control, generation after generation being born under the laws of Israel on land governed by Israel, but the thought that counts? According to you then, the endless and violent failures of the Arabs puts them in better situation than the various non barbaric people who have accepted their defeat honorably and moved on? (The Baltic Germans for example).

    I am sure you could find some American Indians in any particular generation since our conquest who agitated and argued for their old land back. Some violently like Wounded Knee and that New Mexican courthouse occupation. And unlike the Arabs, who keep losing even more land every year due to their stupidity, American Indians have steadily been gaining ground in seeing more tribal lands recognized. So I will ask again, when you signing over the deed to your house to the Apache?

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  99. @Lot
    Thanks, I've not seen it myself but I don't run in evangelical circles.

    It isn't a terrible argument, it is both true and requires no religious belief.

    To put another way, at some point conquests must be and actually are accepted as the reality on the ground, and their theoretical injustice becomes irrelevant. The vast majority of both the conquerors and the vanquished in Israel's founding are now long dead.

    In our common law you get 20 years to expel a squatter or other claimant occupying your land. The Arabs have had 70 years and are no closer than in 1950. Their claims to the land if Israel are stale and lapsed beyond repair, and should they nonetheless press them violently, Israel is right to respond and this may include moderate additional reconquests in Judea and Samara of land the Arabs, Greeks, Turks, Egyptians and Romans took from their ancestors as their just reparations and fruits of victory.

    If someone conquered Israel today, how many people would they have to kill for you to congratulate them on their sportsmanship? It’s nonsense. Conquest is outside of law. Legally it’s rape, and is as legal as rape. Its entire philosophical underpinning is “I am stronger than you at the moment and do not care about anything else.”
    >but if you own a house you don’t live in and a homeless guy starts residing in it
    Okay, buddy. I think you meant to type, “and a homeless guy opens your skull with a length of lead pipe, beats his chest like King Kong, and screams ‘Victory.’” In which case you would not be submitting many codicils.

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Israel has an estimated 200 nukes. Nobody is going to try to conquer it.
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  100. Lot, your American analogy is still a failure, because:

    Quick history lesson:

    1. Right of Conquest is the norm.
    2. Right of Conquest stops being the norm.
    3. More than a century later, Jews conquered Palestine. The same Jews who badmouth the Right of Conquest when YT does it, BTW.

    As for the Palestinians, it’s not my place to surrender on their behalf. If they’re still fighting, well, those are the facts on the ground.

    Jews should have no trouble understanding White support for the Palestinians over the Jews; Jews support Team Black over Whites, Team Muslim over Whites, Team Refugee over Whites, Team Homosexual over Whites, Team Feminist over Whites, Team Brown over Whites, Team Red over Whites, Team Immigrant over Whites, Team Sepia over Whites…

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  101. @J.Ross
    If someone conquered Israel today, how many people would they have to kill for you to congratulate them on their sportsmanship? It's nonsense. Conquest is outside of law. Legally it's rape, and is as legal as rape. Its entire philosophical underpinning is "I am stronger than you at the moment and do not care about anything else."
    >but if you own a house you don't live in and a homeless guy starts residing in it
    Okay, buddy. I think you meant to type, "and a homeless guy opens your skull with a length of lead pipe, beats his chest like King Kong, and screams 'Victory.'" In which case you would not be submitting many codicils.

    Israel has an estimated 200 nukes. Nobody is going to try to conquer it.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I knew you would say this. You haven't understood a thing.
    >this is okay, because we are stronger
    And so, when somebody else is stronger?
    Meanwhile has Hamas been told about the nukes?
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  102. @Lot
    Israel has an estimated 200 nukes. Nobody is going to try to conquer it.

    I knew you would say this. You haven’t understood a thing.
    >this is okay, because we are stronger
    And so, when somebody else is stronger?
    Meanwhile has Hamas been told about the nukes?

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