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From the New York Times:

For Europe, Cutting the Flow of Migrants Challenges Basic Ideals

By Steven Erlanger and Katrin Bennhold
July 5, 2018

VIENNA — Austria’s young chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, was only 9 when most of Europe dismantled its border checkpoints. Like others of his generation, he took for granted that he could study in other European countries and cross the Continent by rail without his passport.

But now Mr. Kurz, 31, who took office last year as part of a wave of populist leaders propelled to power on anti-migration platforms, is among those forcing the European Union to confront a stark quandary: Can it maintain one of its most cherished principles — open borders among its members — and still provide citizens with a sense of security and identity?

It is the latest in a long series of challenges to strain the bloc. Europe has begun to understand that there is a growing backlash against the very policies, including a unified currency and open borders, that were intended to draw the people of Europe together.

Sitting in his wood-paneled office on Thursday, days after a fight over resurrecting a hard border between Bavaria and Austria that almost brought down the German government, Mr. Kurz said the only hope of preserving borderless, visa-free travel in Europe was to get tough on the Continent’s external frontiers — a step that raises its own practical and moral issues.

“A Europe without internal borders can only exist,” he said, “if it has functioning external borders.”

Indeed.

But, of course, Kurz’s common sense is not welcome because the long run goal of Respectable People is the non-existence of Europe.

The free movement of people and goods, a principle central to the idea of a confident, unified, liberal new order, is under attack, threatened by a growing public revolt against immigration from the Middle East and Africa.

Which people and which goods?

The European Union was set up as a Union of Europeans. But that kind of continentalism sounds racist, so the EU’s history has been retconned to make inundation by non-Europeans the European Union’s supreme value.

Yet, if you are an American dairy farmer in Wisconsin, are you really entitled to free movement tariff-free of your cheap butter into Europe? Hasn’t the EU instead traditionally existed to protect European farmers? Indeed, the EU imposes an external tariff of just under one Euro per pound of butter.

It’s funny how there is so much less confusion when it comes to goods than to people. It’s almost as if current thinking about people is encumbered by taboos that weren’t not supposed to mention, or even notice.

While the number of migrants has fallen sharply in recent years, public anger has not, and the question remains whether Europe can preserve its borderless domain and, in a sense, its reason for being.

It is vital that Europe accomplish that, Mr. Kurz said in the interview, because free movement across borders “is the basis of the European idea, and we have to do everything to keep it alive.”

The borderless area, known as the Schengen zone, covers 26 countries, 4.3 million square kilometers and about 420 million people and is the most iconic achievement of the European project. The free movement of people has been central to how many Europeans want to see themselves: tolerant, open and diverse.

Mr. Kurz wants to effectively shut down Europe’s southern border, ramping up patrols in the Mediterranean and systematically returning migrant boats to the countries — Libya and Egypt, for example — from where they embarked.

But is this the Europe of its founders, or is it something harsher, less optimistic and self-confident?

See what I said about retconning the past?

The history is actually easier to see with goods. Everybody knows that the EU does not exactly practice free trade with other continents, choosing to put up substantial tariff barriers for its own farmers and the like. But the Establishment’s thinking when it comes to people goes like this:

- The European Union’s founders were Good.

- Europeans being for Europeans is racist and therefore Bad.

- Therefore, the European Union’s founders were for open borders with the rest of the world.

All you need to know, these days, is who are the Good Guys and who are the Bad Guys and you can fill in the rest.

 
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  1. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Challenges basic Idealgorithms.

  2. Ibound1 says:

    Notice the conflation of free movement of “people and goods” as if that is a single principle. Notice that preventing illegals from crossing the southern border of Europe is a “shut down” of that border. If you want fish from the Mediterranean coast of Italy, if you want wheat from the Ukraine, if you want a German car, if you want French fashion, if you want Greek olives and Irish butter, then you have to let a million Libyans into your country. Because once you close a border to illegals, why nothing at all can get through.

    • Agree: ben tillman
  3. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Globalism and Open Borders is Universal Treason.

    Of course, there’s a reason they don’t apply to Israel.

  4. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    NYT’s attitude is much like Hitler’s frustration with Poland and Spain. Poland wouldn’t let join the German alliance and let Germans build super-railway there. And Hitler came to hate Franco for not joining with the larger German-European project. And of course, Romans hated Jewish nationalist Zealots.

    Same pattern. Empire hates national defiance.

  5. Altai says:

    It also represented very low amounts of inter-European immigration prior to 2004. The massive and unending flow of people from the post 2004 members into the UK was the key factor to Brexit. The cohorts who switched to voting for UKIP in a way that led to the massive Tory victory did so on that basis (Not the Farage ‘banning odd bananas’ nonsense) which led to Cameron being obliged to having the referendum.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  6. The comments, in order by reader picks, are resoundingly in favor of Kurz. Even in the NYT.

  7. @Altai

    The proverbial “Polish plumber” is certainly NOT the main reason for the Brexit vote. Inundation by hostile, dangerous, non-assimilating, and often slothful Muslims and Africans played a much larger role.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Thulean Friend
  8. Hubbub says:

    …liberal new order…

    So much misery and strife have accompanied this phrase in modern history!

  9. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    All people should ask, “What is our nationalgorithm? Who gets to code it?”

    Zionists under British Imperialism got to code the nationalgorithm of Palestine.

    Guess what happened to Palestinians.

  10. Anonymous[229] • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Too bad then that Brexiteers are touting closer ties with the Commonwealth over white Europeans to prove their non-racist bona fides.

  11. Austria’s rightful leader denounces strong borders and deportations – “that’s not how Europe works” or has ever worked, he says (while seated in the national military museum in Vienna, of all places).

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  12. @RadicalCenter

    You’re wrong. A lot of Brits really are more scared of EE workers than they are of Pakistanis and similar trash. Brexit campaigners openly stated that it wasn’t “fair” to exclude Commonwealth(read: South Asia et al) immigrants.

    A lot of Brits will whine about EE workers but will not say much publicly about Pakistanis for fear and cowardice. You’re overestimating the Brits.

  13. While the number of migrants has fallen sharply in recent years,

    I’ve noticed this sentence, or one just like it, as becoming absolutely essential in any NYT article on Europe. It will eventually appear in any story. Is it becoming the programmed soundbite from the globalists that they hope, if repeated often enough, will somehow become the conventional wisdom?

  14. anon[303] • Disclaimer says:

    Europe was united once, under Pax Romana. The Romans flooded Europe with Jews by taking them out of Israel and spreading them all over Europe, thinking they would assimilate and disappear, instead it led to the last 2,000 years of endless conflicts in Europe, culminating in the two world wars.

    In the last century, the Jews took control of the Soviet Union and tried to recreate Pax Romana. They didn’t succeed, and they spread out all over Western Europe and America.

    Now the Jews have taken control of Western Europe by controlling their media, academia and banks, and they are trying again. This time they are flooding Europe with muslims and Sub Saharan Africans. Across the Atlantic, the Jews are flooding the US with 3rd world immigrants from Latin America, Asia, Africa, Mideast. This is the Bolshevik Revolution 2.0.

    The end goal is total control of the world by Jews. New Word Order = Jew World Order = PAX JUDEA.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @vinteuil
  15. istevefan says:

    While the number of migrants has fallen sharply in recent years, public anger has not, and the question remains whether Europe can preserve its borderless domain and, in a sense, its reason for being.

    Of course the public anger is still there because the migrants are still there. Just because the rate of flow of new migrants might have slowed, that doesn’t mean the ones already there have gone home. Instead I imagine the ones who have already been accepted are using their newfound legal status to import their relatives from the old country. That coupled with the so-called reduced rate of new arrivals (debatable) means the number of these people continues to grow.

    I know they are not this stupid so it must be some deliberate stunt to make people believe the crisis is over when in fact it is not.

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
  16. istevefan says:

    Re the free movement of peoples.

    The free trade movement was going to eventually promote this concept because that is what true free trade entails; the free movement of goods, capital, services and labor across borders. That is essentially what the US states established among themselves and works fine in our nation. It would have worked in Europe too if not for the fact that non-Europeans seem to be the ones taking advantage of this.

    Blogger Vox Day has been covering this topic for a while with free trade purists who deny the free movement of people is part of free trade. VD wrote something along the lines of this which I found interesting. Once you give up the right to regulate what comes into your country, you will give up the right to regulate who comes into your country.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  17. OT, but hilarious! Second World problems,via Marek Möhling:

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    , @Pericles
  18. @The Man From K Street

    I’ve noticed it too, and also assume that it is now part of the standard JournoList script.

    Also it is false.

  19. Karl says:

    14 istevefan > it must be some deliberate stunt to make people believe the crisis is over when in fact it is not

    yes….. the election of Trump REALLY scared the panties off of them, about what is coming up in 2018

  20. @istevefan

    Vox Day is partly right and partly wrong. There are trade entrepots such as Dubai and Singapore that have pretty free trade in goods but are very restrictive about immigration, and have been for so for a while.

  21. @The Man From K Street

    While the number of migrants has fallen sharply in recent years. . . .

    I’ve noticed this sentence, or one just like it, as becoming absolutely essential in any NYT article on Europe. It will eventually appear in any story.

    Yes, good point. It may be an effective propagandum, but we know better. The annual numbers are irrelevant to an assessment of whether immigration proponents wish to erase the nations of Europe and its diaspora. The fact that there is no contemplated end to the immigration project means that the policy is a policy of infinite immigration, which translates to genocide.

  22. The free movement of people and goods, a principle central to the idea of a confident, unified, liberal new order, is under attack

    Since when was free movement of people, literally open borders, a central principle to Europe or the US? This is so daft. I can’t say that I’m surprised from the Failing New York Times, but still…

    • Replies: @anon
  23. istevefan says:

    If anyone here is familiar with China, can you let me know if they even have free movement of peoples within China. I have heard you cannot actually pick up and move to a new location without government permission. Is this true?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  24. syonredux says:

    The French government has called for calm after dozens of youths clashed with authorities and torched property and cars in France’s western city of Nantes, following the death of a 22-year-old man who was shot by police during a vehicle stop.

    About 200 police and soldiers were guarding public buildings on Wednesday after a shopping centre was set ablaze in Breil, a mainly immigrant area of housing estates. Bus shelters and several vehicles were wrecked.

    “I’m appealing for absolute calm, as the rule of law will be completely respected,” Nicole Belloubet, the French justice minister, told RTL radio on Wednesday.

    As news of the 8.30pm shooting spread on Tuesday night, angry youths also took to the streets in neighbouring areas. Some carried bottles filled with petrol.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/04/riots-erupt-nantes-police-shoot-22-year-old-driver/

  25. @Seamus Padraig

    Things that are true in Silicon Valley but in the Soviet Union:

    If you don’t like toiling in drudgery day in and day out, you can go back to your own frickin’ country!

  26. @The Man From K Street

    That’s the same game they played with regard to America’s southern border 10 years back. When the big recession was going on, I remember news reports all over explaining how the Latin Americans have quit coming over, and the whole problem is non-existent anymore (in the same way, confusing the rate with the accumulation of 25 million or so). In that case, the numbers are so hard to ascertain, that, they could have been right, but nobody knows.

    Just comparing Mexico and America, even in today’s state, their theory is built on BS.

  27. Sort of like saying that a family can only function with the level of intimacy, mutual trust, cooperation and sharing – if it’s separated from those who are outside the family circle of intimacy, mutual trust, cooperation and sharing.

    Ridiculous. Controversial. Probably motivated by hate. Who can think such thoughts?

  28. @istevefan

    That was true a few decades ago, during hard-core Communism, but not anymore. There are certain cities, like Shanghai, in which they did control the population influx, but after 40 years of the one-child policy, I think they’ve let that all go.

    I just talked to a Chinaperson and got the usual kind of half-understandable answer – Central Commie gov. has nothing to do with it, but cities outside your home province may consider you a resident only if you buy property or your workplace does a little paperwork. If you don’t, they may come give you a ticket or even detain you to try to send you back home.

    One thing I’ve been surprised about China on, is that, in some aspects the Central Gov. has much less control and organization than our Feral Gov’t here. A China Story and Chinese vs. American Police States is about a movie and a corresponding real story about women kidnapped for marriage. Rosie??

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Rosie
    , @EdwardM
  29. Tiny Duck says:

    Europe has survived major migrations and invasions in the past. The Persians were turned back at Salamis and Platea. The Huns were turned back too, and then the Ottomans.

    That’s three times. But as someone who thinks that white societies are inherently racist and privileged, I’m thinking and hoping that this latest wave might just succeed.

    During those prior acts of exclusion, the rest of the world wasn’t watching. But now, the entire human community is watching, and we have the interests of the migrants in mind.

    Just like the United States, we will be watching to see who wind up in cages, and the campaign of shame will be relentless!

    The future of Europe is brown. Europe’s days of white privilege are drawing to a close!

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  30. @Achmed E. Newman

    Mao never really had a centralized KGB-like secret police to enforce his will the way Stalin had. That’s why he was always working up big mass frenzies like the Cultural Revolution.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  31. @Steve Sailer

    I’d never thought about that, but it sounds about right. My comment was about more mundane control of people. In our country, they may be somewhat incompetent (OK, very incompetent) but state and local governments are at the beck-and-call of the Feral Gov’t – the income tax had a whole lot to do with that due to the flow of the money. It is one big Leviathan here, unlike in China.

    As an example, my post was about the amazing story from my Chinaperson source about how the kidnapped girl’s local police force went far away to rescue her. The far-away local police force said F-you (in Chinese) to the police that came to get the girl. They had to go back home for reinforcements. This was in the mid 1990′s or so.

  32. @syonredux

    “bottles filled with petrol.”

    Hah. In America, we can literally buy FLAMETHROWERS if we want to conduct mayhem like that.

    https://throwflame.com/

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  33. Rosie says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That’s awful. Most people don’t understand how precious a blessing is an honest police force. Women have a natural right to be free of sexual coercion and slavery, but at the end of the day, we depend on incorruptible men to enforce our rights and punish violators. Otherwise, any man with the resources to pay the police to look the other way can do with us as he likes.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  34. Steve, i’m gleaning from your snide comments in the past couple of posts that you may not be on board with the erasure of European nations and peoples?

    This sort of hostile, anti-erasue attitude is racist and not acceptable.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  35. Steve, typo:

    encumbered by taboos that weren’t not supposed to mention

    (why can’t I boldface text inside a blockquote?)

  36. @Tiny Duck

    You didn’t write that. How do I know?

    No typos. (And light on the usual miscegenation threats.)

    • Replies: @HFR
  37. El Dato says:
    @anon

    The Romans flooded Europe with Jews by taking them out of Israel and spreading them all over Europe, thinking they would assimilate and disappear, instead it led to the last 2,000 years of endless conflicts in Europe, culminating in the two world wars.

    This sounds truly bizarre. Romans practicing controlled assimilation and jew-centric multiculturalism?

    Something out of a Robert Silverberg story?

  38. Anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:

    Even closer to home, The New York Times Inc. (prop. Carlos Slim), divides the world into two groups: NYT employees and pensioners and non NYT employees.

    NYT employees are entitled to money and and a lot of cushy bennies by virtue of the fact of being in the in-group – perhaps star columnists might use these goodies to purchase another ocean going yacht.
    On the other hand the bum in acute agony with a hernia bivouacked down outside the NYT building is entitled to f*ck all from the NYT, and remains in his agony.

  39. anon[359] • Disclaimer says:

    Europe is having a fit over Trump’s proposed auto tariffs. And the Times is negative. Trump even suggested that the EU and US both set auto tariffs to0 zero from current US 2 1/2% and Europe 10%. It was considered radical. Because it’s complicated and global supply chains and stuff that normal people will never understand.

  40. “While the number of migrants has fallen sharply in recent years ….”

    “I reduced the flow of water, but the tub is still filling … what’s up with that?”

    Drive around the countryside in most Western European countries and you see more and more decidedly non-European people in unexpected places. I once saw an African wearing a white Tee-Shirt and a Cincinnati Reds hat sitting at a bus stop in the Odenwald. This was odd, because the only other place I’ve seen that combination of person and clothing was inner-city America, and there these were gang colours. The criminal elite have dealt with the problem thus far by dispersing it, and they are wondering why the peasants, amongst and sometimes against whom the migrants have been dispersed, are revolting.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  41. @Joe Stalin

    As Yakov Smirnov once said, “America … What a country!”

  42. anon[359] • Disclaimer says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    The free movement of people and goods, a principle central to the idea of a confident, unified, liberal new order, is under attack

    You know, like between states in the USA.

    • Replies: @Carbon blob
  43. @Rosie

    OK, that wasn’t my point at all. My point was that the centralization of power may be more efficient, but when THE STATE decides to clamp down, there is nobody on your side. Our local sheriffs are supposed to be sovereign over the Feds, State, anyone else, but nowadays when the Feral Gov. says “jump”, the locals officials say “how high?” (at least for most of them who are too cowardly to stand up).

    This was not about women at all, but I just asked you to chime in, because I thought you might like the story on my blog post. It’s a human interest story, meaning no numbers…

    Women have a natural right to be free of sexual coercion and slavery,…

    Yeah, men too, and that’s why Family Court must be destroyed.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  44. Pericles says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    Click through and read the whole thread, most amusing.

  45. EdwardM says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    China still has the infamous hukou system, which is a barrier to internal resettlement. Not that they won’t let you move, but that you are registered as a resident in your home area, and can’t access government services (like public education and health care; not sure the extent to which it regulates what job you can get or home you can purchase or rent) in a different area.

    The Chinese government is always talking about reforming the system, and has taken small steps, but this issue comes up as a major obstacle to relocation.

  46. vinteuil says:
    @The Man From K Street

    I’ve noticed this sentence, or one just like it, as becoming absolutely essential in any NYT article on Europe.

    Yes, it’s the talking point of the moment.

    The Great Migration ebbs & flows.

    When it ebbs, it’s all: “the number of migrants has fallen sharply in recent years” – so what are you paranoid losers so worried about?

    When it flows, it’s all: (1) the migrants offer us incalculable benefits! – &, besides, (2) we deserve to be punished for our horrid crimes against people of color!.

    Whether it ebbs or flows, it’s all: think of the children!!!

  47. vinteuil says:
    @anon

    Ummm…I always used to think that flooding Europe with Germans turned out to be a bigger problem for the Roman Empire than flooding it (wha-huh?) with Jews.

    Or did the Jews force the Romans to welcome in the Germanic hordes through their control of the media and academia?

    Is there no end to the wiles of those naughty Jews?

  48. @istevefan

    Exactly. I was going to point to that style of innumeracy. We have it domestically with reporting of crime. A decrease in the rate says nothing useful without an understanding of the absolute numbers.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  49. @TomSchmidt

    NYT Editorial Board:

    Well you see, goyim… In this war, things get confused out there: power, ideals, the old morality, and practical existential necessity. But out there with those European natives, it must be a temptation to be God. Because there’s a conflict in every human heart—between the rational and irrational, between good and evil—and tikkun olam does not always triumph. Sometimes, the dark side overcomes what Steven Pinker calls the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one. Sebastian Kurz has reached his, and very obviously, he has gone insane …

    He’s out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct.

  50. vinteuil says:
    @syonredux

    As usual with articles of this sort, one must read to the later paragraphs to find out what’s really going on here.

    “The dead man was named locally as Aboubacar Fofana…”

    At that point, you know just about everything worth knowing about this incident.

  51. vinteuil says:
    @AnotherDad

    This sort of hostile, anti-erasure attitude is racist and not acceptable.

    It is even – and let us be clear about this – controversial. And possibly even problematic.

  52. vinteuil says:
    @The Alarmist

    Drive around the countryside in most Western European countries and you see more and more decidedly non-European people in unexpected places.

    I wasn’t driving, and I wasn’t in the countryside, but at my b&b ten minutes from the Mauritshuis in Den Haag, the day before yesterday, the prevalence of head-scarfs was simply astonishing.

  53. I see the NYT closed comments on that article after a mere 40 comments, almost all of which were highly critical. Perhaps the tide is turning, even among the NYT’s readership.

    Excerpts from the two comments with the most “recommends.”

    I agree completely with Mr. Kurz: “A Europe without internal borders can only exist,” he said, “if it has functioning external borders.”

    “A Europe without internal borders can only exist,” he said, “if it has functioning external borders.”

    Same with the U.S.

  54. @anon

    Texas is starting to get the idea here, e.g. by requiring proof of lawful presence in order to get a driver’s license (so that you can’t just swap, say, a California license if you move into the state).

  55. Rosie says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This was not about women at all, but I just asked you to chime in, because I thought you might like the story on my blog post. It’s a human interest story, meaning no numbers…

    I did like it. The ending was very sweet.

  56. Anonymous[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @syonredux

    Remember.

    Back in the day ‘only’ a few thousand or so third worlders per annum emigrated to France.

  57. @TomSchmidt

    And that is why, one after one, news sites have shut down their comment sections.

  58. Anonymous[345] • Disclaimer says:

    As Steve mentioned in passing the EU is basically a protectionist bloc setting itself off against the rest of the world.

    Odd, therefore, that The Economist magazine is perhaps the most rabid ‘remain’ faction in the UK, particularly since The Economist preaches ‘globalisation’ at every opportunity, and indeed was founded back in the early 19th century with the express intention of promoting free trade.

  59. HFR says:
    @Gary in Gramercy

    You’re right, Tiny Duck did not write that typo-free comment. In fact, it was written by “Trans Cat Mom” from Atlanta in response to the NYT article (and received only 2 recommends). It stuck in my mind because the article had 40 comments, of which only 2 or 3 were in agreement with the article. The great majority of reader comments would have been at home on this site.

  60. J1234 says:

    The free movement of people and goods, a principle central to the idea of a confident, unified, liberal new order, is under attack, threatened by a growing public revolt against immigration from the Middle East and Africa.

    Which people and which goods?

    It doesn’t matter. All men (people) are created equal. All goods are, too.

    The phrase “…a confident, unified, liberal new order is under attack, threatened by a public revolt….” makes me wonder if the ever morphing (with regards to principles) left is starting to move away from the “democracy principle” again because it’s getting inconvenient for them. Back in the 1960′s, it was all about minority rights and the majority oppressing the minority, but with the looming global demographic shift, the emphasis of the left has gradually shifted over to majoritarian focused “rights.”

    Within the last few months, however, a lot of people who had been sitting on the sidelines on the immigration issue in Europe and European derived countries are starting to wake up. This could mean that the left has to (once again) start portraying the majority, not as huddled masses, but oppressors with torches and pitchforks. Or the global majority is good, but the national majority is evil. (Unless whites become a global majority, of course.)

  61. making comparisons of goods to people via migration as they are interchangeable commodities is a peculiar twist. goods head for shelving to be sold.

    people head to the nearest aid office to begin using resources for the return will be unknown.

    there is no comparison between a person setting up shop in an apartment funded by the tax payer and the cornish game hen sold at market

  62. anonymous[418] • Disclaimer says:

    JIE – good riff on Kurz!

  63. @Millennial

    Karl is a dolt. His brother Georg and the other Habsburgs who are now making common cause with Orban’s Hungary are the real heirs of the Kaisers of old.

    • Replies: @Millennial
  64. Mr. Anon says:
    @Percy Gryce

    Exactly. I was going to point to that style of innumeracy. We have it domestically with reporting of crime. A decrease in the rate says nothing useful without an understanding of the absolute numbers.

    It’s like telling someone who is bleeding out: What are you worried about? Your rate of blood loss is decreasing.

  65. @Old Palo Altan

    How is Georg making common cause with Orban?

    Last I heard of Georg he was still a “make the EU more powerful” shill and in favor of putting various controls in place to facilitate a more “legal, orderly, and rational entry” by the migrating hordes into the EU, aka boil the frog slower.

  66. George says:

    “the Europe of its founders”

    Who were the founders? Talking about founders is an American cliche, Euorpe or even the EU have to equivalent.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_fathers_of_the_European_Union

    The EU founders don’t seem to have considered immigration, the EU being a tariff customs union.

    Actually the US followed the same pattern, immigration is not given much thought by the American founders.

  67. Nick Diaz says:

    Steve Sailer:

    “The European Union was set up as a Union of Europeans. But that kind of continentalism sounds racist, so the EU’s history has been retconned to make inundation by non-Europeans the European Union’s supreme value.”

    Or, conversely, the European Union was set up to uphold European values, the values of the enlightenment, as a reaction against the nationalism and fascism that let to World Wars I and II respectfully. The anthem of the E.U is Beethoven’s 9th Symphony for a reason…

    Contrary to what you argue, the European Union does not stand as a new “super nation” for Europeans, that practices nationalist policies and excludes the rest of the World; rather, it was created to uphold *European values* , which includes cultural and social tolerance, openness and individual rights

    “Yet, if you are an American dairy farmer in Wisconsin, are you really entitled to free movement tariff-free of your cheap butter into Europe? Hasn’t the EU instead traditionally existed to protect European farmers? Indeed, the EU imposes an external tariff of just under one Euro per pound of butter.”

    Ah, but that’s because Europeans, unlike Americans, have experienced famine. And they have experienced famine exactly because of the nationalism you cherish, which led them to endless wars and starvation. So they have tariffs because, during times of war, you cannot buy butter from you enemy and need to have your own. So they subsidize their farmers for reasons of historical necessity. But the only thing to blame here is nationalism: no nationalism, no wars and then cheap butter for everyone.

    Also, digressing a bit, you are delusional if you think butter from Wisconsin is better than French, Swiss or Italian butter. Ever tasted it? I have. It must be something in the water those cows drink because that butter tastes otherworldly. It’s also almost all organic, since in Europe they give far less antibiotics and steroids to cattle.

    “It’s funny how there is so much less confusion when it comes to goods than to people. It’s almost as if current thinking about people is encumbered by taboos that weren’t not supposed to mention, or even notice.”

    That’s because goods and people are not the same. Only a nihilist and misanthrope like you would think that.

    • Replies: @Grumbler
  68. Grumbler says:

    Ah what circular logic from the NYT:

    In order to preserve “European values” Europe must bring in non European peoples who not only do not believe in or practice European values but are the very antithesis of those values – and often violently so.

    Makes sense. If you are a lunatic.

  69. Grumbler says:
    @Nick Diaz

    Nationalism does not produce wars. Aggressive greed by the elite produces wars.

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