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Audacious Epigone mines the long-running General Social Survey for fertility by an IQ proxy (score on a ten-word vocabulary test included in the survey):

The smarter Mormons have a lot of kids, while the smarter blacks don’t. (This is probably a big issue in why African-Americans don’t make much progress.) Also, on the GSS, the smarter Jews also have more children, although Jewish fertility is fairly low overall.

 
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  1. It does agree with the idea of jewish intelligence having eugenic origins – that smarter jews tend to have more kids, while unusually intelligent goyim are considered nerds and have less reproductive success.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    It does agree with the idea of jewish intelligence having eugenic origins – that smarter jews tend to have more kids, while unusually intelligent goyim are considered nerds and have less reproductive success.
     
    These are very recent trends you're looking at.

    Jewish intelligence certainly has eugenic origins, but it was that success in their middle man occupations was particularly g-loaded compared to the broader spectrum of traits that aided success for white gentiles.

    But along with disease resistance, conscientiousness, cooperation, etc. IQ was certainly being selected for in white gentile populations as well. We are definitely smarter than our ancestors. White eugenic fertility has only stopped recently probably with vacinations, anti-biotics, birth control, the welfare state and feminism.
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  2. I, for one, welcome our new Mormon eugenic overlords.

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    I, for one, welcome our new Mormon eugenic overlords
     
    My kids just discovered the Simpsons, and they pulled that episode up as I was reading this. The eugenic angle is reinforced by their other obsession of the moment, "Dumb Ways to Die" and its many parodies.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAkCieoRZlc
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  3. Mormon sample in this study was N<400.

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    • Replies: @Bill
    And? If the standard deviation in number of kids is 1, then 400 is plenty big enough to detect the giant differences displayed in the graph. 40 would be enough.
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  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    After several minutes, I could not even come up with a stereotype of a smart black having lots of kids. Eventually I thought of Alan Keyes. It seems he has had three kids, slightly above the American average. This does seem to be a real issue. Come to think of it, Ben Carson has three kids too.

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    • Replies: @JosephB
    All I can think of is the Cosby show where they had 5 children.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Bill Cosby had 5 kids, and he has a doctorate from UMass.
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  5. Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    A "banned substance" for curling? Isn't that like a banned substance for hopscotch or checkers or bocce ball? What on earth would EPO or steroids do for a curler?
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  6. Mormonism is a surprisingly “nerd-friendly” denomination, come to think of it. It comes close to Judaism and the Eastern religions on that front. Also, I suspect Mormons love their kids (even their wayward ones) a lot more than Fundamentalists, Baptists, and Pentecostals.

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    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
    Mormon people and religion are far more functional than the Baptists, Pentacostals, and RC's. The reason is the Mormons are generally of higher human capital than the others. Mormon religion, due to its pioneering origins and the fact it is exclusively an American creation, places far more emphasis on work ethic, individual self-reliance, and entrepreneurial/business success than the others.

    The Mormons I have personally met seem to actually enjoy doing the "family thing". Baptists, pentecostals, and RC's seem to do it only because the religion tells them to and don't seem to actually enjoy it. I think the reason for this is that most Mormons are highly functioning people whereas the others are by and large dysfunctional individuals.

    As with everything else, the efficacy and quality of any particular religion, is based on human capital. It is reasonable to say that human capital is the basis of everything.
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  7. Only a moron would fail to get all ten vocabulary questions right on the GSS test.

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  8. “The smarter Mormons have a lot of kids, while the smarter blacks don’t.”

    In Wakanda smart Blacks have tons of kids and Wakanda is as non fictional as Michael Brown saying hands up don’t shoot.

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  9. There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

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    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    South America may indeed by dysgenic, but it seems that the absurd amount of political violence present there in the 20th century has died down considerably, which leads me to believe there might have been a lot of eugenic self-culling to offset the dysgenic birth patterns.
    , @AnotherDad

    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.
     
    Excellent--and critical--point, Lot.

    US readers here should take a good look at those black graphs. I've noted in a few comments over the years that US black fertility is highly dysgenic. The smart, educated black gals mostly want to have children in the civilized (white) fashion--husband, nuclear family. But it's hard for them to do it. They overwhelmingly want black men. Educated black men are much rarer than educated black women. A number of them marry white women. Others will marry down to less educated but cuter black women. Educated black women who aren't particularly attractive have a hard time landing a suitable black man to make a family with. I know a couple. Theirs is not a happy lot. (And of course they have no love for the Nicole Browns of the world.)

    Bottom line: we're growing a population of even dumber blacks. Leavened somewhat by the unfortunate influx of white genes. I think we'll be seeing even more striking bifurcation in the black community, with the mulatto elite, able to tap all the AA sinecures, nominally speaking for an ever more dystopian underclass.
    , @Antlitz Grollheim
    The hypocrisy of SWPL whites seems highly eugenic. The women who were actually smart and driven enough to get good-paying careers then marry a similar male and have a couple kids. The rest become cat ladies.
    , @AnotherDad

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.
     
    [Separate point, so separate comment]

    Add India to that specific list.

    The traditional eugenic fertility of a harsh competitive Malthusian environment is gone.

    I know a lot of middle class--i.e. upper caste--Indians, especially Brahmins. This class is being hollowed out. Their families already have sub-replacement fertility, super-charged by out-migration. Meanwhile the lower castes--despite their economic status--and the muzzies are still booming along.

    A couple generations along--if this continues--and you'll have an India of 2 billion people with a considerably shrunken--not just relatively, but absolutely--smart fraction. Scary stuff.

    ~

    BTW, this is yet-another-reason why "one people" nations are so much nicer to live in. In a one-people nation like say Korea or Japan, if there was recognition that there was an issue with dysgenic fertility it would be possible to actually have a national "conversation" about it and put in place measures to encourage eugenic fertility.

    In "diverse" nations like India or the US--and now the UK, France, Sweden ...--any such conversation is swallowed up by ethnic issues/ethnic politics. Cries of "racism!" and the knives come out.
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  10. Makes sense. Mormons have a strong faith along community and tribal support. IOW they have a family friendly environment. Your average white nuclear family has none of this. Basically mom and dad are on their own, their parents 3000 miles away, etc.

    Worse many have bought into the consumer lifestyle of a big Toll Brothers tract home, a BMW and Lexus in the drive way, living in a city, etc. Basically in debt up to their eyebrows and total wage slaves whether they like it or not. BOHICA.

    Doesn’t matter that they make six figures or work at Google, all their income gets sucked up in rent, mortgage and car payments.

    Not family friendly at all but a great path to extinction.

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    • Agree: Bill
    • Replies: @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    , @Triumph104
    That sounds nice but isn't true.

    Utah leads the nation (top 10 state) in bankruptcy, affinity fraud, prescription drug abuse, and child abuse. Utah is the number one state in the nation for child sexual abuse.

    Mormons divorce at the same rate as the national average. If you include part-time work, Mormon women work outside the home at the same rate non-Mormons.

    Many, if not most, of the newer apartment complexes in the Salt Lake City area are reserved for low-income tenants. Because Mormons have their own welfare system, Utah does not lead the nation in food stamps. (Years ago, the US military was so embarrassed that so many service members were on food stamps that the military created its own food program to stop the bad publicity.)

    Nowadays, the Mormon families with the jaw-dropping number of kids are often led by a patriarch who is a successful professional, but that is not an accurate reflection of the average Mormon family that is struggling financially and psychologically.

    The number of nursing homes in and around Salt Lake City is staggering. Mormons who have raised numerous children are spending their last years in institutions just like non-Mormons.
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  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    News for you, Steve. ‘Mormons’ are no longer exclusively white, north European white.
    Since a convenient revelation that preempted an Federal investigation, the Saints have been pan-racial since the mid 70s.
    A large portion of young Utahn Saints are non white. Hail from anywhere originally, wherever the missionary boys go – which as we all know is Main Street the World. Particularly active in black Africa right now.
    Large proportion of the Utahn working-class are Pacific Islander Saints.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "News for you, Steve. ‘Mormons’ are no longer exclusively white, north European white."

    No religion is exclusively White, but The Church Of Latter Day Saints is still a hell of a lot Whiter than Islam for example.

    Donald Trump would have lost the state of Utah to Hillary Clinton or Evan McMullin if The Church Of Latter Day Saints was as vibrantly diverse as Islam.

    , @Billy Shears
    uh You're exaggerating. "large proportion" is Bull shit.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    The Mormon sample in the GSS is 89% non-Hispanic white.
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  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Having multiple family members that are LDS I can attest somethings:

    * The LDS has its own “relief society” intended as a substitute for government welfare programs. LDS members therefore don’t tend to rely on government subsidy of fertility.
    * Even the lower IQ LDS tend to be conscientious about their use of relief society resources hence will tend to limit their fertility to their family’s resources and not abuse the relief society resources.
    * The indoctrination of young women is that their fathers are the representative of Christ in the home. Every family has a priest and it is their father. This is a kind of soft White Sharia.
    * This is a remnant culture of pioneer America, which had very high fertility rates.
    * In historic Utah, public schools tended to be dominated by LDS faculty, hence were de facto “home schooled”. Therefore, when modern Poz hit, there was a lack of awareness in the LDS hierarchy about how toxic that environment could be to LDS kids, and the LDS hierarchy admonished members _not_ to homeschool kids, claiming something about “The Salt of the Earth”… that sending kids into toxic environments would clean those environments rather than destroying the kids. More recently the LDS hierarchy has learned that not everyone LDS families live are like Utah.

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    It's really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don't get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don't behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you're out of the community.
    , @Chris Marsk
    What is "modern Poz"?
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  13. The difference between Mormon men and Black men is that Mormon men marry all of their baby mamas no matter how many women they impregnate. That is why polygamous households outnumber single mother households in the Mormon community.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Blacks got that upside-down. The womenfolk are the ones who hold down (legitimate) jobs, and they support if not a bunch of n'er-do-wells and their children at once, at least a series of them. One deadbeat after another.
    , @FPD72
    Polygamist Mormons (who are outside the LDS Church) have extremely high rates of welfare participation. Legally, wives two through N are single mothers and qualify for all of the programs. They call it “bleeding the beast.”
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  14. Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

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  15. @PNU
    OT

    https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/7yjgzw/tips_ive_accumulated_over_the_past_week_based_on/

    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn't apply to Canadians.
    , @william munny
    Talk to any honest waitress and they will tell you black customers tip the worst. They don't seem to understand the concept, maybe because they don't have much exposure to restaurants? Don't realize the waitress is otherwise making $2 an hour? Don't care and are willing to exploit this to get food cheaper than the generally expected going rate?

    I know someone who worked as a receptionist at a Red Lobster, which is a favorite for black diners willing to spend a few more bucks. The wait staff jockeyed fiercely to please the receptionist, who assigned customers to tables, to seat the white customers at their table. A typical meal for 4 might run around $100, and she said it wasn't uncommon for black customers to leave $2 or nothing at all, while being far more demanding of the waitress. And the amount of times hair or other objects are discovered in the food at the end of the meal is shocking.
    , @Anonymous
    The NHL has the richest and most educated fans. I’m guessing it might be due to the top prep schools and elite colleges in the Northeast have top-notch hockey programs.

    https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/02/12/which-sport-has-the-richest-fans-the-answer-will-s.aspx

    Which Sport Has the Richest Fans? The Answer Will Surprise You

    The snooty denizens of the fanciest country clubs might be shocked to learn which sport has the wealthiest fans.

    Daniel B. Kline

    Put down your scone and secure your monocle (lest it fall into your caviar) since it will shock you to find out what sport has the wealthiest audience in the United States.

    While the posh country clubs and endless ads for luxury cars during broadcasts might lead you to assume that the Professional Golfers Association would have the richest fans, golf, falls behind a much less genteel sport when it comes to the wealth of its audience. And though the PGA has the oldest audience in general as well as the highest share of fans 55 and older, according to Nielsen's 2013 Year in Sports Media Report, it's the National Hockey League's audience that's the richest.

    That might seem hard to believe of a sport famous for fights, goons, and holding onto the mullet as a viable hairstyle, but one third of all NHL viewers make more than $100,000 a year, compared to about 19% of the general population, making them the richest sports audience.

    And while the numbers are small compared to what other sports get in rights fees, the NHL has leveraged its wealthy fan base to a surprisingly lucrative TV deal on a per-viewer basis.
     

    , @stillCARealist
    Every NBA game I've been to was crowded with middle class white/Asians/mixed. Very few blacks. Last time I went to a Kings game I spent close to $200 for three people, including a bit of food and drinks.

    The Sacramento Golden 1 Center is not too far from black neighborhoods, but no way can those people can afford to attend the games. Plus, the seats are small and have little leg room. Most blacks are tall or fat or both.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Not. In. Philly.
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    Awhile back I dragged my wife to a food can drive in front of Staples for a Kings game (I wanted the free tickets that came with volunteer duty). A lady, who in my imagination was wearing a mink coat, came up to her in a huff and asked where the VIP entrance was.

    When my wife said she didn't know, the lady muttered "f***ing useless" and stormed off.

    So not always low profile.
    , @anon
    I work in the Twin Cities in the food service industry. Female hockey game goers are the best looking and best dressed. Seems like a lot of people at NHL events are on dates.
    , @Jefferson
    You can't expect most NBA fans to tip their waitress or waiter after just dropping $300-$500 on the brand new Kobe's, Jordan's, or LeBron's sneakers. Maintaining a basketball sneakers collection is not cheap and there will not be much disposable income left to tip the people who bring them their drinks and food.
    , @MBlanc46
    And in Chicago, hockey fans taunt the rare black player.
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  16. @Jefferson
    The difference between Mormon men and Black men is that Mormon men marry all of their baby mamas no matter how many women they impregnate. That is why polygamous households outnumber single mother households in the Mormon community.

    Blacks got that upside-down. The womenfolk are the ones who hold down (legitimate) jobs, and they support if not a bunch of n’er-do-wells and their children at once, at least a series of them. One deadbeat after another.

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  17. Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

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    • Replies: @Flip

    Second, I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.
     
    Reversion to the mean
    , @Coag
    Before the cornucopia of modern agriculture and medicine, higher IQ folks always outbred the lower IQ. The epochally brilliant hyper-intellectuals of history like Mill or Keynes were reproductively unrepresentative of their cognitive class. For these uniquely otherworldly thinkers, having too many kids would have prevented them from concentrating their energies and achieving what they did, after all. But there were numerous, nameless, high IQ individuals who never made an immortal name for themselves as philosophers but succeeded in society and were able to sustain large families and ever-ready to give birth to the lineage of the next Newton (coming from rich yeomen) or Einstein (from a line of merchants).

    Historically the odds ratio of winning a science Nobel if you have a close relative who also won a Nobel is much higher than if you don’t have a Nobel winning relative.

    Dynasties are generally successful. In Europe the major dynasties lasted a millennium or more, and were in the end only swept away by Hegelian-scale world-historical cataclysms that the efforts of hundreds of millions of both low- and high-IQ individuals working collectively could not resist.

    , @Steve-O
    Regression to the mean.
    , @Jack Hanson
    Because IQ can help one avoid bad problems, it doesn't negate them. Nobel prizes have a quantitative "right place right time" factor baked into them.

    Now explain why blacks are unable to maintain a first world civilization without running to social science voodoo and magic soil theory. Ill wait.
    , @Samuel Skinner

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.
     
    Farewell to Alms; smart people outbreed dumber people in England for several centuries. In fact given that there is a divergence of IQ around the globe, smart people had to have out breed dumb people repeatedly in history- otherwise we never would have risen above chimps.

    Second, I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.
     
    Regression to the mean.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Adoption studies. Intelligence is well correlated with biological parents.

    Why nobility fails is interesting - I think that in short, inbreeding does cause more problems than the advantages. Worldwide, it really does seem that nobility were much more consanguious than their fellows.

    As for distinguished families:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_family
    , @Space Ghost
    > Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners?

    You mean like Pierre and Marie Curie's daughter Irène? Or William and Lawrence Bragg? Or Niels and Aage Bohr? Or Hans and Ulf von Euler? Or Arthur and Roger Kornberg? Or Manne and Kai Siegbahn? Or J.J. and George Thomson? Or Jan and Nikolaas Tinbergen? Other than that I agree there aren't many inter-familial Nobel prize winners.
    , @Anonymous
    Yes, there is a lot of data showing intelligence is inherited. There are many many twin studies and adoption studies showing the heritability of IQ to be about 50% in first world countries.

    As for Nobel Prizes, I assume you mean intra-family Nobel winners, and there are many more of those than you would expect by chance. There have been 4 father-son pairs to win the Nobel Prize in physics:

    William Bragg and Lawrence Bragg, 1915
    Niels Bohr, 1922 and Aage N. Bohr, 1975
    Manne Siegbahn, 1924 and Kai M. Siegbahn, 1981
    J. J. Thomson, 1906 and George Paget Thomson, 1937
    , @AnotherDad

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.
     
    I don't know why there are folks--but especially on a blog like Steve's--who make this sort of obviously ridiculous statement.

    The contrary is obviously the case: smarter folks have--generally--down through the ages, outbred dumber ones. This has to be the case. The fossil record shows a very clear record of ramp up of brain volume in the homo-genus over the last few million years right up to homo sapiens. And this can't be "oh, then we had agricultural and civilization and got dumber". No. Modern people from civilized societies are quite a bit smarter than the remnant hunter gather populations. Not just "hey they can read", but trying to educate kids from those societies--ex. Australian Aboriginals--shows they are very stupid. Smartness has had an even higher premium since the dawn of civilization. And modern humans from more civilized societies--greater time depth in civilization--have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures.

    "Smarts" is not just a survival advantage it is clearly and obviously *the* human competitive advantage.
    , @Anonymous
    By that logic, our primate ancestors would have had higher IQs than contemporary humans.
    , @Anonymous
    Pre-Nobel you had the Darwin-Wedgewood-Galton cluster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood_family

    The family contained at least ten Fellows of the Royal Society and several artists and poets (including the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams).
     
    , @guest
    It's not like the Nobel Prize is granted strictly on merit. They could have deliberately decided not to give multiple awards to one family for various reasons without telling us.

    There are in fact families of very high achievement over multiple generations. The Bernoullis and Bachs come to mind. But there are a few things acting against it. We're talking really high achievement, here. There are lots of ways to go wrong:

    1). As others have pointed out, regression to the mean. You're gonna get some drop-off right away.

    2). Your "IQ uber alle" is a strawman. Environment matters, especially at the highest level, a most delicate level. Very smart children of ridiculously smart parents will still have to be groomed properly. What if they get into girls/boys or drugs?

    3). You mention being outbred. There is an extremely high correlation between intellectual achievement and childlessness or minimal children.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Let us assume that you are well aware of regression to the mean. (Are you OK with that?) I read what you have written and I have to wonder, do you think anecdote trumps data? Your recitation of the imbecile roll does not help your case. But maybe I am not cognizant of the point you want to make. So, please be explicit. What is your point?
    , @Nico

    I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.
     
    Read The Son Also Rises. There actually is a lot of interfamilial accomplishment passed down but you have to look over a span of a number of generations to get a smoother picture.

    Regression towards the mean also happens generally over a number of generations, but which mean? The answer is the mean of the breeding pool in which the family swims. Thus in caste-laden India Brahmins will regress to the Brahmin mean, Dalits to the Dalit mean, and so forth.

    The reason for example two apparently smart parents can have an apparently mediocre child has to do with random assortment and environmental factors (social phenotype is only partly correlated with social genotype; at the same time, family traditions and social mores are passed down in a way that is quite analogous to nucleic acid heritance).

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  18. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn’t apply to Canadians.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Or Minnesotans. Up here, hockey appeals to a broad spectrum, at least within white society. I don't see many Somalis in the stands.

    I don't go to Wild games, but I'm familiar with the game at the grade school and college level. (Herb Brooks himself coached at my alma mater.)

    L.A. I can easily imagine is different.

    , @Reg Cæsar

    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn’t apply to Canadians
     
    Back in the 1970s someone asked why the Kings weren't drawing better in LA, what with 800,000 Canadians living in Southern California at the time. He said, yeah, they're here because they hate hockey! (Cf. Derb on soccer.)

    With no pro football for many years, and the degradation of basketball culture, and the Latinization of local soccer culture, it's not surprising that the Dodger and Angel crowd would look to more amenable sports in the off-season.

    America is one of the rare countries where soccer is a bourgeois, rather than proletarian, activity (hence "soccer moms"). LA hockey is an iced variation of this, it seems.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    True.
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  19. @Anonymous
    Having multiple family members that are LDS I can attest somethings:

    * The LDS has its own "relief society" intended as a substitute for government welfare programs. LDS members therefore don't tend to rely on government subsidy of fertility.
    * Even the lower IQ LDS tend to be conscientious about their use of relief society resources hence will tend to limit their fertility to their family's resources and not abuse the relief society resources.
    * The indoctrination of young women is that their fathers are the representative of Christ in the home. Every family has a priest and it is their father. This is a kind of soft White Sharia.
    * This is a remnant culture of pioneer America, which had very high fertility rates.
    * In historic Utah, public schools tended to be dominated by LDS faculty, hence were de facto "home schooled". Therefore, when modern Poz hit, there was a lack of awareness in the LDS hierarchy about how toxic that environment could be to LDS kids, and the LDS hierarchy admonished members _not_ to homeschool kids, claiming something about "The Salt of the Earth"... that sending kids into toxic environments would clean those environments rather than destroying the kids. More recently the LDS hierarchy has learned that not everyone LDS families live are like Utah.

    It’s really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don’t get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community.
     
    Really? You sure about that?
    , @eD
    " The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community."

    Sort of OT, but I actually know the New Testament quite well and I don't remember running across this bit, in either the Gospels or the Epistles, even the more spurious ones. What is the passage that says this?
    , @Corn
    I loathe to send anyone to The Atlantic but Megan McArdle wrote a really good article there a while back about the Mormon welfare state.
    After reading it I thought, “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

    LDS are a charitable bunch, but they still have a distinction between “deserving poor” and “undeserving” or wayward poor.
    Something a government funded welfare state would never be allowed to notice. 14th Amendment, equal protection blah blah blah
    , @ScarletNumber
    One of the drawbacks of the modern welfare state is that it is an entitlement. Therefore, as long as you meet the objective criteria, you get it. Sadly the government can't make "not an asshole" a criterion, but the church sure can.
    , @Dr. Mormon
    Sorry Bill. Not quite right. The 10% tithing does not go towards welfare at all.
    The welfare program comes from a system we have where we are expected to fast for two meals a month, and pool that money to help the poor. Unlike taxes, we literally sacrifice our meals to feed others. The recipients of this assistance know that they are quite literally having others go hungry to help them out. While there are still abusers and freeloaders, of course, I think this cuts down substantially on the sense of entitlement I often see in tax-based government welfare programs.

    Don't get me wrong though -- there is no public shaming or the like in the program. The congregation is unaware of who is receiving the funds, aside from a couple of trusted volunteers that are in the know in administrating the funds (which are fully audited as well, of course, to prevent abuses).

    The program works quite well, and my son once did an analysis of data on hunger in the US that indicated that if this "skip two meals once a month to help others" program were deployed nationally, it could end hunger in the US.
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  20. @Bill P
    It's really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don't get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don't behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you're out of the community.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community.

    Really? You sure about that?

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    Yes. Read Paul's letters.
    , @RudyM
    Try II Thessalonians 3:10-15, more or less, along with all the other Pauline discussions of church discipline.

    I don't think this precludes charity towards those outside the church community, however. You have to ignore a lot of what Jesus said to arrive at that conclusion. But there is solid basis for church discipline in the New Testament, primarily in Paul's letters. And those churches operated much more as actual communities that what we might think of today as churches.
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  21. white girls are increasingly giving birth to Chikdren of Color

    Diversity and justice are the future

    Read Sabaa Tahir and Marie Lu

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "white girls are increasingly giving birth to Chikdren of Color"

    There are way more White female childless cat ladies than there are White mothers with Little Obamas.

    The reason the White population is decreasing is not because of race mixing but lack of breeding.
    , @fish
    Heh heh heh....."Chikdren O Color".....Ohs Tinys you be'n killen me.


    Lebertnes "Lendbert don't be knowing those other words.....what be a sahir?" Pittsb

    , @Bleuteaux
    No more Leonard Pitts?
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  22. @Rod1963
    Makes sense. Mormons have a strong faith along community and tribal support. IOW they have a family friendly environment. Your average white nuclear family has none of this. Basically mom and dad are on their own, their parents 3000 miles away, etc.

    Worse many have bought into the consumer lifestyle of a big Toll Brothers tract home, a BMW and Lexus in the drive way, living in a city, etc. Basically in debt up to their eyebrows and total wage slaves whether they like it or not. BOHICA.

    Doesn't matter that they make six figures or work at Google, all their income gets sucked up in rent, mortgage and car payments.

    Not family friendly at all but a great path to extinction.

    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I’m going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn’t see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There’s this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn’t have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can’t think of one who’s a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn’t participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don’t want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

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    • Replies: @mom
    Aspiring parents may find that comment discouraging.

    Educated, cosmopolitan whites don't have to have it so tough. There are still plenty of ways for whites to get ahead and afford a family in U.S. society. For instance -- join the military* and do 4 years out of high school. All your needs are paid for and you can save $30,000 - $90,000 over those 4 years. Yes, really -- I'm an accountant and veteran and ran the numbers for various scenarios. The 4 years don't have to be 'wasted' because college credits can be amassed via CLEP tests, which are free to active-duty servicemembers. Then, finish up college for free with the amazing G.I. Bill. That takes about 2-3 years.

    So 6 years out of high school you are 24 years old, have $30,000 - $90,000 in your bank account, no debt, and a college degree.

    When it's time to buy a house, the VA lets you buy one with no money down.

    Point 3) about minority births at 50% -- that's the average for the entire country. Go to an area of the country where that's not true. Housing prices will be lower. Be as 'cosmopolitan' as you want by forming your own circle of intellectual friends or whatnot.

    To be clear, I do *not* recommend staying in the military with a family. It's tough on families. Just do 4 years out of high school then GTFO.

    *Joining the military is a great way for females to avoid the hookup culture of majority-female college campuses. Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males, some of whom are high-quality types with honorable intentions.
    , @Jack Hanson
    You should encourage your wife to be a stay at home mom and move Heaven and earth to make it happen.
    , @Jefferson
    "You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move,"

    And who would blame them. Palo Alto is a very clean beautuful low crime city without the vibrant diversity problems of Oakland and the rampant homelessness of San Francisco. Palo Alto is as good as it gets when it comes to Bay Area living.
    , @stillCARealist
    You're right about all of this.

    Still. Your wife shouldn't stay in the workforce because of peer pressure. That baby needs her far more than any job does. And he or she will grow up so fast it will shock you. Don't let your wife miss out on those early months/years because she'll never get them back. The career can wait... it'll still be there... not as glamorous but so what? Your career will advance with you knowing your wife and baby are happy together. You're a team now, not competitors.
    , @Bleuteaux
    The third one is really interesting, and as a millennial I hadn't even thought about it.

    Of course, even in the upper crust neighborhoods, you now have to contend with a flood of Chinese and Indian. Further exploding real estate costs.
    , @Bill
    Good stuff. I think 3 is really interesting. Finding an overwhelmingly white school building the US is hard these days. It was not as hard in the 80s. It seems to me that the consequence of this is likely eventually to be whites abandoning the public schools. Back in the 60s and 70s, when the federal government was semi-serious about desegregation but before white flight could complete, a bazillion private schools appeared all over the South. I wonder if that is going to happen again, except everywhere.
    , @ScarletNumber
    You neglect to mention that 2 is a function of 1. If there was a regulation that only 1 income could be counted toward mortgage qualification, housing would become much more affordable.
    , @TomSchmidt
    Too true. It seems the desire for your wife to work is social status. What would it take, economically, for your wife to be a SAH mom, and perhaps with her Ivy background homeschooling the child?
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    My UK experience is that for the middle classes, being an SAHM is the status symbol, not a working one. Most working women, especially full-timers, would love love love to be at the school gates each day. However, this might be my age cohort (late 50s) because

    a) housing was less expensive when we were raising children

    b) our women weren't so filled with "you-go-girl" feminism.

    On the other hand, a forty-something doctor I know, three kids, has just given up work, her husband earns enough and her stress levels are way down now.

    , @notanon
    you missed out mass immigration which is the real driving force

    your point (3) is the key factor - most people want their kids to be in the ethnic majority at their local school (it's one of the reasons most immigrant groups form enclaves) and for very practical reasons i.e. the vast majority of inter-racial or inter-ethnic violence is committed by teenage gangs in and around the schools.

    mass immigration and forced integration have made achieving this very difficult for lower income, increasingly middle and now even high income white families and it will eventually become impossible with HUD saying no neighborhood can be more than 50% white.

    this is the pressure which drove white flight to the suburbs, forced white families to spend an increasing percentage of their income on housing and pushed women out to work.

    mass immigration.

    if the media didn't lie about anti-white violence in white minority schools it would be obvious to everyone what the problem is.

    , @L Woods

    Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting.
     
    And these days, they usually are. See: the North American military dependapotamus.
    , @S. Anonyia
    The solution to this is to adapt a social system sort of like the one in the Soviet Union: grandma lives nearby and takes care of the kids in her retirement while the parents are working.

    If a family wants a comfortable lifestyle, having a SAHM is a mistake unless the husband is making over 100k. And this is in flyover country. Would take a lot more in the coastal cities.

    Most SAHMs I know are extremely lazy and are only staying at home because they have NEVER been able to hold down a steady job in the first place. They never really were part of the workforce to begin with and are often college drop outs (if they attended). Of course things were different a few decades ago (I'm a millennial in my late 20s so that colors my perspective), it was more a respectable middle class thing then.
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  23. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This shouldn’t really need saying, but focusing upon Mormons and smart Africans is like focusing on needles in haystacks. In this case both are evasions of the real and consequential facts from the study: aside from the needles in the haystacks, birthrates worldwide are highest among low-IQ populations, and have been for generations. Now, what might be the effects of this fact?

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    • Replies: @guest
    "Now, what might be the effects of this fact?"

    Ask T. Lothrop Stoddard.
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  24. Why are there few if any top tier Mormon scientists, artists, ect if Mormons are both smarter and more numerous?

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    https://www.ranker.com/list/mormon-scientists/famous-mormons

    H. Tracy Hall
    Invented synthetic diamonds

    Robert B. Ingebretsen
    Developer of the first practical digital audio recording system

    James LeVoy Sorenson
    Co-inventor of real-time computerized heart monitor and 40 other medical patents

    William Clayton
    Inventor of the "roadometer", an early version of the modern odometer
    , @Anonspc
    Mormon art is having a moment. Bands like The Killers are broadly popular and movies like Napoleon Dynamite as well. Mormon pop art was perhaps even THE defining aesthetic of the naughties.
    Also, lds serve in intelligence capacities (mil intel, fbi etc) at rates way beyond their numbers suggest so it’s possible the lack of “public” lds intellectuals is mirrored in the success of the “shadow” lds intellectuals
    , @Anonymous
    Mormons aren't that numerous, and while their average IQ is probably a trifle higher than average, really far right edge people on the IQ Bell Curve tend to be skeptical of any established organized religion. If they are ethnically Jewish they still identify as Jews but if they are ethnically non-Jews they will often identify as atheist, agnostic, or by some other unrecognized term instead of saying Catholic, Mormon, etc. This is not dishonest, because Jewishism (the state of 'being a Jew' as opposed to the Jewish religious belief system, traditionally Judaism, although arguable more correctly Talmudism) is both a race and a religion. Arthur Miller was by his own admission an atheist, but he'd have belted you if you said he was not really a Jew.

    By contrast, I'd never call myself Catholic, because although I was baptized, confirmed, and made First Communion in the Roman Catholic Church, I damn sure don't believe in transsubstantiation, indulgences or the Assumption of Mary or the infallibility of Popes, and am not at all sure about a whole lot of other things.
    , @biz
    There are a few (e.g. Kip Thorne is of Mormon background) but the pressure to get married and settle down early and support a family prevents most from reaching their full potential in science etc. Also spending one's best years in Tonga on a mission doesn't help.
    , @boomstick
    I thought the stereotype for US white Mormons was "pretty good, not great." The B+, organized, disciplined students was a hangover from the original group of refugees.
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  25. Mormonism is a surprisingly “nerd-friendly” denomination, come to think of it. It comes close to Judaism and the Eastern religions on that front. Also, I suspect Mormons love their kids (even their wayward ones) a lot more than Fundamentalists, Baptists, and Pentecostals.

    Damn right, Proty.

    Mormons emulate Jews and their positive eugenics far more than FBP types (who love Israel but secretly hate Jews and very secretly consider Jews to be monsters).

    FBPs (like AAs) are steeping in dysfunctional Southern Redneck culture – hatred, violence, cruelty and hypocrisy (disguised as honor), physical machismo, alcoholism, lack of trust, the “big man” beating everyone else into submission, glorification of stupidity. They fear their own women and children, and hence beat them into their place.

    Mormon’s are culturally transplanted New Yorkers from the 1840s. It’s true that few Mormons are descended from that elite founding stock; but those ones set the tone for all later converts. Their pioneer background also rewarded rational problem solving as opposed to an alcohol-fueled desire to beat the world into submission. They know what a man is, and what a woman is, without the need to throw one of their own kind under the bus “to teach them a lesson”.

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  26. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    Talk to any honest waitress and they will tell you black customers tip the worst. They don’t seem to understand the concept, maybe because they don’t have much exposure to restaurants? Don’t realize the waitress is otherwise making $2 an hour? Don’t care and are willing to exploit this to get food cheaper than the generally expected going rate?

    I know someone who worked as a receptionist at a Red Lobster, which is a favorite for black diners willing to spend a few more bucks. The wait staff jockeyed fiercely to please the receptionist, who assigned customers to tables, to seat the white customers at their table. A typical meal for 4 might run around $100, and she said it wasn’t uncommon for black customers to leave $2 or nothing at all, while being far more demanding of the waitress. And the amount of times hair or other objects are discovered in the food at the end of the meal is shocking.

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    • Replies: @Proton Gakhe
    How do Jews tip? There are two stereotypes: really bad and really good; but what would an honest waitress say?
    , @Tiny Duck
    You can take your racism and shove it up your patoot

    Hockey fans "tip well" because they are overwhelmingly white and their privilege gives them more money and the means to not to have deal with racism and the harsh realities of life
    , @Jefferson
    Tipping is the only time Blacks are financially conservative with their money. But with everything else Black people spend way more than they actually make, they are hardcore fiscal Liberals in their own households. On a per capita basis Black people make our politicians in Washington DC look like fiscal Conservatives in comparison.

    The irony that the worst tippers are also the most fiscally Liberal who overspend on things like basketball sneakers.

    , @ScarletNumber
    The code word among servers for blacks is "Canadian".

    Regarding Red Lobster, go to your local one on any Sunday. It will be filled with Canadians dressed in their Sunday best enjoying their post-church repast.
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  27. @Bill P
    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn't apply to Canadians.

    Or Minnesotans. Up here, hockey appeals to a broad spectrum, at least within white society. I don’t see many Somalis in the stands.

    I don’t go to Wild games, but I’m familiar with the game at the grade school and college level. (Herb Brooks himself coached at my alma mater.)

    L.A. I can easily imagine is different.

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  28. @william munny
    Talk to any honest waitress and they will tell you black customers tip the worst. They don't seem to understand the concept, maybe because they don't have much exposure to restaurants? Don't realize the waitress is otherwise making $2 an hour? Don't care and are willing to exploit this to get food cheaper than the generally expected going rate?

    I know someone who worked as a receptionist at a Red Lobster, which is a favorite for black diners willing to spend a few more bucks. The wait staff jockeyed fiercely to please the receptionist, who assigned customers to tables, to seat the white customers at their table. A typical meal for 4 might run around $100, and she said it wasn't uncommon for black customers to leave $2 or nothing at all, while being far more demanding of the waitress. And the amount of times hair or other objects are discovered in the food at the end of the meal is shocking.

    How do Jews tip? There are two stereotypes: really bad and really good; but what would an honest waitress say?

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I remember them being fair (20-%) but demanding (all the way to trying to dictate music levels) get a four top of jewish women though, then you have trouble. They don't care how busy you are, they want be tended to.
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  29. @Anonymous

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community.
     
    Really? You sure about that?

    Yes. Read Paul’s letters.

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  30. @Anonymous
    This shouldn't really need saying, but focusing upon Mormons and smart Africans is like focusing on needles in haystacks. In this case both are evasions of the real and consequential facts from the study: aside from the needles in the haystacks, birthrates worldwide are highest among low-IQ populations, and have been for generations. Now, what might be the effects of this fact?

    “Now, what might be the effects of this fact?”

    Ask T. Lothrop Stoddard.

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  31. So it turns out it’s Idiocracy for blacks, but not so much for whites?

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    • Replies: @notanon
    in the absence of calorie/disease/cultural constraints fast breeders will overtake slow breeders.

    the calorie/disease constraints have been removed and the cultural constraints have been under attack by the media for decades so although black people succumbed first the same thing will eventually drown all peoples unless they actively prevent the cultural poisoning.

    mouse utopia
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  32. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Second, I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Reversion to the mean

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  33. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Before the cornucopia of modern agriculture and medicine, higher IQ folks always outbred the lower IQ. The epochally brilliant hyper-intellectuals of history like Mill or Keynes were reproductively unrepresentative of their cognitive class. For these uniquely otherworldly thinkers, having too many kids would have prevented them from concentrating their energies and achieving what they did, after all. But there were numerous, nameless, high IQ individuals who never made an immortal name for themselves as philosophers but succeeded in society and were able to sustain large families and ever-ready to give birth to the lineage of the next Newton (coming from rich yeomen) or Einstein (from a line of merchants).

    Historically the odds ratio of winning a science Nobel if you have a close relative who also won a Nobel is much higher than if you don’t have a Nobel winning relative.

    Dynasties are generally successful. In Europe the major dynasties lasted a millennium or more, and were in the end only swept away by Hegelian-scale world-historical cataclysms that the efforts of hundreds of millions of both low- and high-IQ individuals working collectively could not resist.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Newton was famously childless as was Pitt the younger. Ben Franklin, just two. Then don't get me started on the Romans, imagine Caesar dying with just two children. Might be a case of my memory being selective to buttress a point I'm already leaning towards, but it strikes me that the historically smart people were less fecund. Voltaire? Spinoza?

    Regarding dynasties, I meant less in terms of survival--which was more a matter of prestige-- than the noted abilities of the children. Compare say the actions and shrewdness of the highly capable Maria Theresa to the ditzy Marie Antoinette or Catherine the Great to Paul...

    Consider Genghis Khan, greatest conqueror in human history, in three generations, kids piss it all away. I dunno...
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  34. Slightly off topic but since others are commenting on it -

    17 years experience of tipping jobs on weekends in Texas so I will break down the experience for everybody:

    tipping by fans:

    1. New Orleans Saints – just areal nice bunch of guys every which way.
    2. Dallas Stars fans – both of them, really.
    3. Baseball fans generally.
    4. Texas Tech.
    5. Spurs.
    6. UT Austin\ A&M .
    7. Cowboys – which also includes putting up with Cowboys fans.
    8. Cubs fans. I sincerely hope it is another 100 years before they see a WS again.

    tipping by sex\race\ethnicity

    1. Working class Guys, regardless of race.
    2. Working class women, again regardless…
    3. Wealthy White males.
    4. Wealthy other males.
    5. No such thing as wealthy females being good tippers.
    6. Public Officials of any sort – Cops, School teachers, any of them. Yea, they are just a treat walking in the door.
    7. Asians. sorry, but the truth is the truth.

    Seriously, if I had to face a weekend of Wealthy Asian cubs fans, I would just call in sick and be money ahead.

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    • Replies: @European-American
    For what it’s worth as far as I know there is no tipping in East Asia.
    , @Twinkie

    7. Asians. sorry, but the truth is the truth.

    Seriously, if I had to face a weekend of Wealthy Asian cubs fans, I would just call in sick and be money ahead.
     
    There is a well-established set of studies that show that blacks consistently under-tip compared to whites, even after controlling for income and education level. In other words, the stereotype about blacks and poor tipping is reflective of reality.

    What about Hispanics and Asians? As usual, the best sources for studies on hospitality/restaurant business is from Cornell (which has a well-known school of hotel administration): http://www.tippingresearch.com/uploads/AsiansHispanicTippingJASPaccepted.pdf

    ABSTRACT
    Asians and Hispanics are perceived by many restaurant servers as poor tippers. This study tests the validity of those perceptions using data from a large restaurant chain’s online customer satisfaction survey. Findings partially support servers’ perceptions – Hispanics but not Asians tipped less on average than Whites after controlling for bill size, the customer’s own ratings of service quality and other variables. Discussion centers around the differences between these findings and those of a previous study and on the practical implications of the findings for restaurant managers. [Bold face mine.]
     
    In other words, Hispanics (to a lesser degree than blacks, but still) under-tip compared to whites. But that is NOT the case with Asians. I suspect that if we were to further delve into the data and separate East Asians and South Asians, we would likely find that the former tip better than the latter.

    By the way, this is in the United States. Obviously, in East Asia, there is little to no tipping. It is in general not a part of the culture.

    I do not cast aspersions on your own experience. You may have indeed experienced what you assert here. I would point out, however, that your experience is not reflective of the general trend regarding Asians and tipping, as is indicated by the study.
    , @Daniel Chieh


    7. Asians. sorry, but the truth is the truth.
     
    I admit this - I tip quite a bit myself, but I notice that my Chinese family often deplores or mocks me for it. It can be frustrating.
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  35. I happen to be a Mormon with an engineering PhD and six children. The youngest is eight, and a couple of the older boys are missionaries right now. Three months ago my wife’s upper back pain was diagnosed as metastatic renal cell carcinoma. For now she is improving significantly thanks to immunotherapy infusions that have only recently become available for her cancer. As a believer, I will also credit the prayers and fasting of a couple hundred people on her behalf.

    The point of interest to readers of this blog, though, is the sort of material support my family has received from the church in a time when my wife has been incapacitated. There have been meals brought in and women coming in to clean the house weekly. When I was spending a lot of time after work at the hospital with my wife, there were women spending hours in my home with my children. Mormons have a high-trust society going on where we know one another’s children and are comfortable telling them to knock off doing something they shouldn’t be doing. Also, through the 1970s, ’80s, and ’90s, church leaders explicitly taught that Mormons should stick to the single-income model with a wife at home who gives her attention and energy to her family, and not only her family but to the community, instead of to an employer. I live in a neighborhood that is 1.1% Mormon, and whenever I attend a school function some other LDS parent is there. One night in the previous fall it was a meeting for high school marching band. The count of band members is 69. Two of the five parents running things were my home teacher and his wife. With myself, a high councilman, and a Primary music leader also present that made for five known LDS adults. A month before that at a meeting to plan parents’ assignments for a middle school musical play, there were three LDS out of a dozen present. One of them was the director of the play, one was me, and the other was the wife of the neighboring ward’s bishop. At the show I spent a few minutes chatting with the choreographer, who I didn’t know, and then we surprised each other when we met again both singing second tenor at a stake choir rehearsal. I can add to the tally of LDS in my area punching above their weight in youth matters the pleasure I had last year fall and spring at high school orchestra concerts watching my son and another member of his priests’ quorum flanking the stage as cello section leader and concertmaster.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Does your faith allow you to oppose immigration?
    , @Jack D
    So sorry to hear about your wife. Add us to the list of people who are praying for her. But as the saying goes, praise the Lord but pass the ammunition. The checkpoint inhibitors are a ray of hope.
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  36. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    Aspiring parents may find that comment discouraging.

    Educated, cosmopolitan whites don’t have to have it so tough. There are still plenty of ways for whites to get ahead and afford a family in U.S. society. For instance — join the military* and do 4 years out of high school. All your needs are paid for and you can save $30,000 – $90,000 over those 4 years. Yes, really — I’m an accountant and veteran and ran the numbers for various scenarios. The 4 years don’t have to be ‘wasted’ because college credits can be amassed via CLEP tests, which are free to active-duty servicemembers. Then, finish up college for free with the amazing G.I. Bill. That takes about 2-3 years.

    So 6 years out of high school you are 24 years old, have $30,000 – $90,000 in your bank account, no debt, and a college degree.

    When it’s time to buy a house, the VA lets you buy one with no money down.

    Point 3) about minority births at 50% — that’s the average for the entire country. Go to an area of the country where that’s not true. Housing prices will be lower. Be as ‘cosmopolitan’ as you want by forming your own circle of intellectual friends or whatnot.

    To be clear, I do *not* recommend staying in the military with a family. It’s tough on families. Just do 4 years out of high school then GTFO.

    *Joining the military is a great way for females to avoid the hookup culture of majority-female college campuses. Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males, some of whom are high-quality types with honorable intentions.

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    • Replies: @L Woods

    Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males
     
    Only by fools who don't realize that there are normal women lacking the cosmically-inflated egos of military women outside the gate. Which is to say, yes, quite a few of them.
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    I tried Boy Scouts as a young teenager and disliked it so much it soured me to the idea of enlisting. Which is a shame because it's a pretty incredible bargain and something I would have taken pride in.

    I think I stumbled into a decent plan B though. Community college and then state school allowed me to rack up credits while working, thus building some savings and avoiding debt.

    I was metropolis-bound due to job for my twenties, which put my wife and I in a similar bind to Doug's - long commutes, small apartment, exorbitant housing prices. Still, by living modestly, we were able to have her stay home from work once we had our first kid. Then, using the savings we had scrounged together from our early married years, I was able to target a job on the fringe of the megalopolis and immediately buy a house out in the hinterlands.

    It's doable.

    , @S. Anonyia
    Uhh, women in the military have way more issues with hook-up culture and unwanted attention than run of the mill college women. In fact it was this reputation that drove me away from the military in the first place even though I was interested and I have the right personality type/fitness level for it. It's really only in the sororities (at Big 10, SEC type flagship public U's) where hookup culture for college girls is a problem.
    , @Whoever
    You're advice is good, but for a lot of people it's not possible. About 75 percent of 17- to 24-year-olds are not qualified to join:
    Ready, Willing, And Unable To Serve
    Too Fat to Fight
    Incidentally, I don't know off-hand about the other services, but about half the women in the Navy are married to men in the Navy. The figure is three-quarters for women in the Marines. Single when you enlist, married to a government-vetted man with a solid job and good career skills at EOAS. Such a deal.
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  37. @Anonymous
    After several minutes, I could not even come up with a stereotype of a smart black having lots of kids. Eventually I thought of Alan Keyes. It seems he has had three kids, slightly above the American average. This does seem to be a real issue. Come to think of it, Ben Carson has three kids too.

    All I can think of is the Cosby show where they had 5 children.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    The real life Bill Cosby had 5 children as well: 4 girls and a boy.
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  38. OT: Canada opposes Israel’s African deportation plan:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-israel-eritrean-refugees-1.4538525

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  39. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Regression to the mean.

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  40. @Lot
    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

    South America may indeed by dysgenic, but it seems that the absurd amount of political violence present there in the 20th century has died down considerably, which leads me to believe there might have been a lot of eugenic self-culling to offset the dysgenic birth patterns.

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  41. @Anonymous
    News for you, Steve. 'Mormons' are no longer exclusively white, north European white.
    Since a convenient revelation that preempted an Federal investigation, the Saints have been pan-racial since the mid 70s.
    A large portion of young Utahn Saints are non white. Hail from anywhere originally, wherever the missionary boys go - which as we all know is Main Street the World. Particularly active in black Africa right now.
    Large proportion of the Utahn working-class are Pacific Islander Saints.

    “News for you, Steve. ‘Mormons’ are no longer exclusively white, north European white.”

    No religion is exclusively White, but The Church Of Latter Day Saints is still a hell of a lot Whiter than Islam for example.

    Donald Trump would have lost the state of Utah to Hillary Clinton or Evan McMullin if The Church Of Latter Day Saints was as vibrantly diverse as Islam.

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  42. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Because IQ can help one avoid bad problems, it doesn’t negate them. Nobel prizes have a quantitative “right place right time” factor baked into them.

    Now explain why blacks are unable to maintain a first world civilization without running to social science voodoo and magic soil theory. Ill wait.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Because you're being selective with your data sources.

    Tis a fact that Europeans and North Americans are much, much, much x10 richer than everybody else. That correlates with your "First World Civilisation". For one, many "Black countries" due to their poverty are unable to provide universal education, a 19th-century invention, which in combination with the Industrial and Scientific revolution brought about "The First World".

    However, within your cultures are pockets of what for lack of a better term we can "uncivilisation": Chavs, Rednecks, Appalachians, Race war enthusiasts, serial killers, mass shooters, perverts e.t.c.

    The difference being, of course, that again, your wealth allows "uncivilisation" to be tamed out sight, through a system of mass surveillance and ubiquitous prescription and stimulative drugging. You may rich Mr Hanson, but I am free in ways alien to you, freedoms you have and will continue to sacrifice at the altar of "first world civilisation".


    P.S You might want to check the actual inventors of magic soil theory, just because some Blacks choose to appropriate it does not make then representative of the whole, anymore than Ted Bundy is representative of you.
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  43. For those wondering how Hispanics fit into the picture, Audacious did an earlier post about that:

    https://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/10/dark-dysgenics.html

    Short answer: like blacks.

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    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    John Derbyshire ten years ago:

    "Hispanics are assimilating all right, but to urban-ghetto norms"

    https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/vital-statistics-john-derbyshire/

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  44. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    You should encourage your wife to be a stay at home mom and move Heaven and earth to make it happen.

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Agree.
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  45. @Anonymous
    Having multiple family members that are LDS I can attest somethings:

    * The LDS has its own "relief society" intended as a substitute for government welfare programs. LDS members therefore don't tend to rely on government subsidy of fertility.
    * Even the lower IQ LDS tend to be conscientious about their use of relief society resources hence will tend to limit their fertility to their family's resources and not abuse the relief society resources.
    * The indoctrination of young women is that their fathers are the representative of Christ in the home. Every family has a priest and it is their father. This is a kind of soft White Sharia.
    * This is a remnant culture of pioneer America, which had very high fertility rates.
    * In historic Utah, public schools tended to be dominated by LDS faculty, hence were de facto "home schooled". Therefore, when modern Poz hit, there was a lack of awareness in the LDS hierarchy about how toxic that environment could be to LDS kids, and the LDS hierarchy admonished members _not_ to homeschool kids, claiming something about "The Salt of the Earth"... that sending kids into toxic environments would clean those environments rather than destroying the kids. More recently the LDS hierarchy has learned that not everyone LDS families live are like Utah.

    What is “modern Poz”?

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    • Replies: @gregor
    Poz is gay slang for "HIV positive." It's used metaphorically to refer broadly to the sort of depravity the left is constantly promoting.
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  46. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    “You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move,”

    And who would blame them. Palo Alto is a very clean beautuful low crime city without the vibrant diversity problems of Oakland and the rampant homelessness of San Francisco. Palo Alto is as good as it gets when it comes to Bay Area living.

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  47. It is worth keeping in mind with these TFR-type surveys that they usually understate the steepness of the slope (at least the steepness of the dysgenic slopes) in terms of actual people on the ground because they ignore the fact that high-breeding populations are also usually early-breeding populations, which can be even more decisive than TFR in determining actual future population.

    https://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/05/beyond-tfr.html

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  48. @Tiny Duck
    white girls are increasingly giving birth to Chikdren of Color

    Diversity and justice are the future

    Read Sabaa Tahir and Marie Lu

    “white girls are increasingly giving birth to Chikdren of Color”

    There are way more White female childless cat ladies than there are White mothers with Little Obamas.

    The reason the White population is decreasing is not because of race mixing but lack of breeding.

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  49. So what does this mean for “Closing The Gap”?

    That Gap ain’t never gonna close.

    Unless whitey adopts ultra-black dysgenic breeding wid a quickness.

    Any of you chaps fancy knocking up some opioid-addled obese trailer park welfare moms? For the sake of the Closing The Gap?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?

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  50. Makes perfect sense: Mormons have magic underwear … they’re heir-conditioned, so to say.

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  51. @william munny
    Talk to any honest waitress and they will tell you black customers tip the worst. They don't seem to understand the concept, maybe because they don't have much exposure to restaurants? Don't realize the waitress is otherwise making $2 an hour? Don't care and are willing to exploit this to get food cheaper than the generally expected going rate?

    I know someone who worked as a receptionist at a Red Lobster, which is a favorite for black diners willing to spend a few more bucks. The wait staff jockeyed fiercely to please the receptionist, who assigned customers to tables, to seat the white customers at their table. A typical meal for 4 might run around $100, and she said it wasn't uncommon for black customers to leave $2 or nothing at all, while being far more demanding of the waitress. And the amount of times hair or other objects are discovered in the food at the end of the meal is shocking.

    You can take your racism and shove it up your patoot

    Hockey fans “tip well” because they are overwhelmingly white and their privilege gives them more money and the means to not to have deal with racism and the harsh realities of life

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    • Replies: @fish
    Ohs Tinys.....Hokey fans “tip well”....yeah.....so do Ledsnert.....he gib you teh "tip" and all teh rest O "litle Lebsnert" all da tyme.

    Lebsnerd "Here we's goes agin" X
    , @anon
    What's your excuse for Jews?
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  52. @william munny
    Talk to any honest waitress and they will tell you black customers tip the worst. They don't seem to understand the concept, maybe because they don't have much exposure to restaurants? Don't realize the waitress is otherwise making $2 an hour? Don't care and are willing to exploit this to get food cheaper than the generally expected going rate?

    I know someone who worked as a receptionist at a Red Lobster, which is a favorite for black diners willing to spend a few more bucks. The wait staff jockeyed fiercely to please the receptionist, who assigned customers to tables, to seat the white customers at their table. A typical meal for 4 might run around $100, and she said it wasn't uncommon for black customers to leave $2 or nothing at all, while being far more demanding of the waitress. And the amount of times hair or other objects are discovered in the food at the end of the meal is shocking.

    Tipping is the only time Blacks are financially conservative with their money. But with everything else Black people spend way more than they actually make, they are hardcore fiscal Liberals in their own households. On a per capita basis Black people make our politicians in Washington DC look like fiscal Conservatives in comparison.

    The irony that the worst tippers are also the most fiscally Liberal who overspend on things like basketball sneakers.

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  53. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    The NHL has the richest and most educated fans. I’m guessing it might be due to the top prep schools and elite colleges in the Northeast have top-notch hockey programs.

    https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/02/12/which-sport-has-the-richest-fans-the-answer-will-s.aspx

    Which Sport Has the Richest Fans? The Answer Will Surprise You

    The snooty denizens of the fanciest country clubs might be shocked to learn which sport has the wealthiest fans.

    Daniel B. Kline

    Put down your scone and secure your monocle (lest it fall into your caviar) since it will shock you to find out what sport has the wealthiest audience in the United States.

    While the posh country clubs and endless ads for luxury cars during broadcasts might lead you to assume that the Professional Golfers Association would have the richest fans, golf, falls behind a much less genteel sport when it comes to the wealth of its audience. And though the PGA has the oldest audience in general as well as the highest share of fans 55 and older, according to Nielsen’s 2013 Year in Sports Media Report, it’s the National Hockey League’s audience that’s the richest.

    That might seem hard to believe of a sport famous for fights, goons, and holding onto the mullet as a viable hairstyle, but one third of all NHL viewers make more than $100,000 a year, compared to about 19% of the general population, making them the richest sports audience.

    And while the numbers are small compared to what other sports get in rights fees, the NHL has leveraged its wealthy fan base to a surprisingly lucrative TV deal on a per-viewer basis.

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    • Replies: @Bill

    The NHL has the richest and most educated fans. I’m guessing it might be due to the top prep schools and elite colleges in the Northeast have top-notch hockey programs.
     
    Bravo!
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  54. “And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age.”

    This is a universal myth, but is simply not true. It may be true for a very narrow subset of jobs (very top end, people who want to be CEO/high end professor/General/partner in law firm/etc). But the vast majority of jobs can accept time off, job changes, late master’s degrees, and so on. The average American changes jobs absurdly frequently (I don’t remember the number: every 7 years either refers to the average move or the average job change). So the vast majority of Americans do work that they weren’t doing just 5 years ago.

    What’s bizarre about this statement is that everybody knows its not true. We all have personal experience of people moving, of people getting new jobs, of older adults going back to school, of moms taking time off then becoming realtors/nurses/school teachers/insurance agents and so on, much less taking time off then going back to the workplace in their former profession (no hospital is going to reject a nurse because she took time off to raise kids-there’s a nursing shortage). my entire social existence is one of friends and colleagues lasting a few years, as they (or I) end up moving to a new city, and a new job, after just a few years. We are a nation of transients-professionally, socially, and geographically.

    This perspective is unnaturally skewed towards the experiences of the elite (which is different from the ‘educated, cosmopolitan elite’). Just as every statement about college costs/competitiveness/value is really only referring to the Ivy League and Stanford, every argument about lost wages and the costs of raising children is skewed towards coastal elites who want to stay on track to dominate their fields (whatever that may be).

    But there are plenty of ‘educated, elite’ who may not qualify as cosmopolitan, but are nevertheless high enough IQ to resist this dysgenic IQ drop. There are doctors and lawyers all over the place. There are plenty of college professors in small town America (not Harvard Professors, but professors nonentheless). Engineers are scattered all over the country-not just in Silicon Valley.

    joe

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  55. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    Every NBA game I’ve been to was crowded with middle class white/Asians/mixed. Very few blacks. Last time I went to a Kings game I spent close to $200 for three people, including a bit of food and drinks.

    The Sacramento Golden 1 Center is not too far from black neighborhoods, but no way can those people can afford to attend the games. Plus, the seats are small and have little leg room. Most blacks are tall or fat or both.

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  56. @Bill P
    It's really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don't get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don't behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you're out of the community.

    ” The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community.”

    Sort of OT, but I actually know the New Testament quite well and I don’t remember running across this bit, in either the Gospels or the Epistles, even the more spurious ones. What is the passage that says this?

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    "If a man will not work, neither shall he eat."

    "A man who will not take care of his family has left the faith and is worse than an infidel."

    Getting thrown out of the community is only for blatant, unrepentant sin. Like sleeping with your step-mom.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Does 2nd Thessalonians 3:10 count?

    "Who does not work, neither shall he eat."
    , @Pensans
    2 Thessalonians 3:10
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  57. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    You’re right about all of this.

    Still. Your wife shouldn’t stay in the workforce because of peer pressure. That baby needs her far more than any job does. And he or she will grow up so fast it will shock you. Don’t let your wife miss out on those early months/years because she’ll never get them back. The career can wait… it’ll still be there… not as glamorous but so what? Your career will advance with you knowing your wife and baby are happy together. You’re a team now, not competitors.

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  58. @eD
    " The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community."

    Sort of OT, but I actually know the New Testament quite well and I don't remember running across this bit, in either the Gospels or the Epistles, even the more spurious ones. What is the passage that says this?

    “If a man will not work, neither shall he eat.”

    “A man who will not take care of his family has left the faith and is worse than an infidel.”

    Getting thrown out of the community is only for blatant, unrepentant sin. Like sleeping with your step-mom.

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  59. @Almost Missouri
    For those wondering how Hispanics fit into the picture, Audacious did an earlier post about that:

    https://anepigone.blogspot.com/2017/10/dark-dysgenics.html

    Short answer: like blacks.

    John Derbyshire ten years ago:

    “Hispanics are assimilating all right, but to urban-ghetto norms”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/vital-statistics-john-derbyshire/

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    • Replies: @Lot
    Not in California, where there too few blacks and too many hispanics. Rather hispanics and the white/se asian lower and lower middle class are merging together.

    I have many comments here describing why Unz's "hispanic crime rate is the same as the white rate" theory is wrong. But he does have a point: crime rates by USA mestizos are much lower than black rates and closer to white rates. Still clearly higher however.

    How long that will hold is yet another question. The typical Mexican American is roughly 50% white and 50% highland Indian. The new wave of mestizo immigrants from central america look more like 80% indian, and from lowland tropical tribes that were less civilized than pre-Colombian Mexicans. They are also darker, shorter, and thinner than Mexican indians.
    , @attilathehen
    Derbyshire's Chinese wife and daughter voted for Obama. There is something they like about blacks.
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  60. @eD
    " The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community."

    Sort of OT, but I actually know the New Testament quite well and I don't remember running across this bit, in either the Gospels or the Epistles, even the more spurious ones. What is the passage that says this?

    Does 2nd Thessalonians 3:10 count?

    “Who does not work, neither shall he eat.”

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    • Replies: @eD
    "“Who does not work, neither shall he eat.”"

    I thought it was Lenin who said that?
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  61. @Jefferson
    The difference between Mormon men and Black men is that Mormon men marry all of their baby mamas no matter how many women they impregnate. That is why polygamous households outnumber single mother households in the Mormon community.

    Polygamist Mormons (who are outside the LDS Church) have extremely high rates of welfare participation. Legally, wives two through N are single mothers and qualify for all of the programs. They call it “bleeding the beast.”

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    • Replies: @Flip
    Do they have to name the fathers who then have to pay child support?
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  62. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Farewell to Alms; smart people outbreed dumber people in England for several centuries. In fact given that there is a divergence of IQ around the globe, smart people had to have out breed dumb people repeatedly in history- otherwise we never would have risen above chimps.

    Second, I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Regression to the mean.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    I'll look up the Gregory Clark book at the Library.

    It does strike me as rather counter-intuitive, consider Literacy rates, reading and comprehension ability, I presume is correlated with IQ rates and yet "only 12% of the people in the world could read and write in 1820"--https://ourworldindata.org/literacy.

    Re: Chimps. Now I'm no expert, but did the diversion not occur over millions of years, as opposed to the mere, relatively speaking, 50-60k years since out of Africa II?

    " Instead of being 99 per cent similar, we are more likely to be about 96 per cent similar."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/genetic-breakthrough-that-reveals-the-differences-between-humans-425432.html

    "On average, in DNA sequence, each human is 99.5% similar to any other human. "
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetic_variation

    Is the divergence hiding in the between 0.5-4% differences between humans?
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  63. @George
    Why are there few if any top tier Mormon scientists, artists, ect if Mormons are both smarter and more numerous?

    https://www.ranker.com/list/mormon-scientists/famous-mormons

    H. Tracy Hall
    Invented synthetic diamonds

    Robert B. Ingebretsen
    Developer of the first practical digital audio recording system

    James LeVoy Sorenson
    Co-inventor of real-time computerized heart monitor and 40 other medical patents

    William Clayton
    Inventor of the “roadometer”, an early version of the modern odometer

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    You kind of make George's point. Compared to other groups famed for innovations in science and/or engineering, like Germans, Scots, or Jews, it's a rather paltry list.

    Philo Farnsworth is certainly of note. And perhaps even more so John Browning, who made it much easier and more efficient to kill people.

    By the way, that website you link to is a little off.

    I'm pretty sure that this guy:

    https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/120/2391339/original/william-clayton-all-people-photo-u1?w=87&h=87&fit=crop&crop=faces&q=60&fm=jpg

    did not die in 1879 (look at his clothes).

    Moreover, I'm pretty sure that this guy:

    https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50010/1000194181/original/h-tracy-hall-all-people-photo-u1?w=87&h=87&fit=crop&crop=faces&q=60&fm=jpg

    did not invent synthetic diamonds.

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  64. The number of Blacks in America has doubled every 40 years

    1930 – 11,500,000 Blacks
    1970 – 22,400,000 Blacks
    2010 – 42,800,000 Blacks

    while the number of whites has not kept pace
    1930 – 110 million Whites
    1970 – 171 million Whites
    2010 – 195 million Whites

    There were more whites under the age of 50 in 1970 than today. In 1970 10% of whites were over the age of 60 while today 20% of the white people are elderly (over the age of 60)

    The average Black American is 31 years-old , while the average age of whites is 49 Years-old. importing 50 million hispanic has helped reduce the power and influence of Blacks. If immigration had been stopped in 1980 20% of the population would be Black today.

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    • Replies: @Bernardo Pizzaro Cortez Del Castro
    The ratio of whites to Blacks has gone from 9-1 to 5-1 over the last 75 years in America.
    , @Perspective
    I believe Black fertility in the US is now actually below replacement level at 1.85, imagine how quickly Whites could pull ahead if they had fertility rates similar to Israeli Jews or Mormons for that matter.
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  65. @George
    Why are there few if any top tier Mormon scientists, artists, ect if Mormons are both smarter and more numerous?

    Mormon art is having a moment. Bands like The Killers are broadly popular and movies like Napoleon Dynamite as well. Mormon pop art was perhaps even THE defining aesthetic of the naughties.
    Also, lds serve in intelligence capacities (mil intel, fbi etc) at rates way beyond their numbers suggest so it’s possible the lack of “public” lds intellectuals is mirrored in the success of the “shadow” lds intellectuals

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    • Replies: @JollyOldSoul
    Napoleon Dynamite was like 14 years ago. What''s the last Mormon-produced, written, or directed movie that entered the popular culture in a big way?

    The truth is that Mormons are underrepresented in culture compared to what their numbers and intelligence would suggest. Their religion sucks up too much of their time and their brain power.

    As for the future, Mormons are heavily recruiting among the lower IQ groups. First World populations have all but stopped joining. Mormon missionaries sent to Europe spend two years and frequently don't win a single convert. Same goes with English-speaking missionaries in the US.
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  66. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Adoption studies. Intelligence is well correlated with biological parents.

    Why nobility fails is interesting – I think that in short, inbreeding does cause more problems than the advantages. Worldwide, it really does seem that nobility were much more consanguious than their fellows.

    As for distinguished families:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_family

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    "The surname survives in Switzerland, with ten entries in the white pages for the city of Basel as of 2018"

    Since they're no longer prominent, fair to say they regressed.

    Inbreeding aside, I was thinking more the Ottoman Sultans and Chinese Emperors. Yet by all account, sons, grandsons at best were always inferior to the prominent Pere.
    , @Simple Song
    Another great example would be the Bohr family--Niels Bohr is the most famous one and one of the greatest physicists of all time; his dad made seminal discoveries in physiology (specifically in oxygen binding to hemoglobin), his son also won the physics Nobel. So three generations of world famous scientists; 2/3 won the Nobel and would have been 3/3 if the Nobels had been around in the grandfather's halcyon days.

    The Termans are another example.

    Personally I think the reason you don't see too many stable dynasties is 1.) entropy and 2.) powerful males often start to make bad marriage decisions--they tend to go for vapid but pretty, feminine girls. A better choice would be a challenging but smart, slightly masculine girl.

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  67. OT

    No mention of James Damore in this report of “strange” new research findings:

    The More Gender Equality, the Fewer Women in STEM

    A new study explores a strange paradox: In countries that empower women, they are less likely to choose math and science professions.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

    :
    The findings will likely seem controversial, since the idea that men and women have different inherent abilities is often used as a reason, by some, to argue we should forget trying to recruit more women into the stem fields. But, as the University of Wisconsin gender-studies professor Janet Shibley Hyde, who wasn’t involved with the study, put it to me, that’s not quite what’s happening here.

    “Some would say that the gender stem gap occurs not because girls can’t do science, but because they have other alternatives, based on their strengths in verbal skills,” she said. “In wealthy nations, they believe that they have the freedom to pursue those alternatives and not worry so much that they pay less.”

    I think that this is roughly the 50th replication of these results, but it’s all new and strange to the Atlantic writer.

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  68. @Bill P
    It's really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don't get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don't behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you're out of the community.

    I loathe to send anyone to The Atlantic but Megan McArdle wrote a really good article there a while back about the Mormon welfare state.
    After reading it I thought, “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

    LDS are a charitable bunch, but they still have a distinction between “deserving poor” and “undeserving” or wayward poor.
    Something a government funded welfare state would never be allowed to notice. 14th Amendment, equal protection blah blah blah

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II

    but they still have a distinction between “deserving poor” and “undeserving” or wayward poor.
     
    I'll bet that would reduce the welfare rolls by 3/4 if not 4/5.

    open /sarc If a pimp beating his whores and selling crack on the side doesn't get welfare, then we need to alert the military-industrial SJW complex forthwith. close/sarc
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  69. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    > Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners?

    You mean like Pierre and Marie Curie’s daughter Irène? Or William and Lawrence Bragg? Or Niels and Aage Bohr? Or Hans and Ulf von Euler? Or Arthur and Roger Kornberg? Or Manne and Kai Siegbahn? Or J.J. and George Thomson? Or Jan and Nikolaas Tinbergen? Other than that I agree there aren’t many inter-familial Nobel prize winners.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Exceptions to the rule.

    The equivalent would be using Steph Curry as the example that, on average, the best NBA players usually aren't children of NBA stars or Peyton Manning in the NFL.
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  70. @Enochian
    It does agree with the idea of jewish intelligence having eugenic origins - that smarter jews tend to have more kids, while unusually intelligent goyim are considered nerds and have less reproductive success.

    It does agree with the idea of jewish intelligence having eugenic origins – that smarter jews tend to have more kids, while unusually intelligent goyim are considered nerds and have less reproductive success.

    These are very recent trends you’re looking at.

    Jewish intelligence certainly has eugenic origins, but it was that success in their middle man occupations was particularly g-loaded compared to the broader spectrum of traits that aided success for white gentiles.

    But along with disease resistance, conscientiousness, cooperation, etc. IQ was certainly being selected for in white gentile populations as well. We are definitely smarter than our ancestors. White eugenic fertility has only stopped recently probably with vacinations, anti-biotics, birth control, the welfare state and feminism.

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    • Agree: Peter Johnson
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  71. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @George
    Why are there few if any top tier Mormon scientists, artists, ect if Mormons are both smarter and more numerous?

    Mormons aren’t that numerous, and while their average IQ is probably a trifle higher than average, really far right edge people on the IQ Bell Curve tend to be skeptical of any established organized religion. If they are ethnically Jewish they still identify as Jews but if they are ethnically non-Jews they will often identify as atheist, agnostic, or by some other unrecognized term instead of saying Catholic, Mormon, etc. This is not dishonest, because Jewishism (the state of ‘being a Jew’ as opposed to the Jewish religious belief system, traditionally Judaism, although arguable more correctly Talmudism) is both a race and a religion. Arthur Miller was by his own admission an atheist, but he’d have belted you if you said he was not really a Jew.

    By contrast, I’d never call myself Catholic, because although I was baptized, confirmed, and made First Communion in the Roman Catholic Church, I damn sure don’t believe in transsubstantiation, indulgences or the Assumption of Mary or the infallibility of Popes, and am not at all sure about a whole lot of other things.

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    • Replies: @Flip

    if they are ethnically non-Jews they will often identify as atheist, agnostic, or by some other unrecognized term instead of saying Catholic, Mormon, etc.
     
    People ask me what religion I am, and I tell them I went to a Presbyterian Sunday school but "it didn't take." They laugh and drop the subject.
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  72. @Anonymous

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community.
     
    Really? You sure about that?

    Try II Thessalonians 3:10-15, more or less, along with all the other Pauline discussions of church discipline.

    I don’t think this precludes charity towards those outside the church community, however. You have to ignore a lot of what Jesus said to arrive at that conclusion. But there is solid basis for church discipline in the New Testament, primarily in Paul’s letters. And those churches operated much more as actual communities that what we might think of today as churches.

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  73. @Anonymous
    After several minutes, I could not even come up with a stereotype of a smart black having lots of kids. Eventually I thought of Alan Keyes. It seems he has had three kids, slightly above the American average. This does seem to be a real issue. Come to think of it, Ben Carson has three kids too.

    Bill Cosby had 5 kids, and he has a doctorate from UMass.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Bill Cosby isn't smart. He has a severe learning disability. He scored 500 out of 1600 on the SAT. (You earn 400 on the SAT simply by signing your name.) He went through the 10th grade three times before dropping out of high school and getting a correspondence GED.

    He managed to earn college degrees simply because he was given credit for his life's work. For his bachelor's degree he received course credits for his experience in the Navy. Cosby's doctorate is in education, just like half of all blacks with a doctorate. Cosby did his dissertation on the two children's shows he made -- Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids.

    It is too bad that Rita Moreno and Morgan Freeman didn't think to get doctorates for their work on The Electric Company.

    , @Brutusale
    UMass isn't even the best school in Amherst.
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  74. @Daniel Chieh
    Adoption studies. Intelligence is well correlated with biological parents.

    Why nobility fails is interesting - I think that in short, inbreeding does cause more problems than the advantages. Worldwide, it really does seem that nobility were much more consanguious than their fellows.

    As for distinguished families:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_family

    “The surname survives in Switzerland, with ten entries in the white pages for the city of Basel as of 2018″

    Since they’re no longer prominent, fair to say they regressed.

    Inbreeding aside, I was thinking more the Ottoman Sultans and Chinese Emperors. Yet by all account, sons, grandsons at best were always inferior to the prominent Pere.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    So regression to the means disproves all of HBD, and there's no such thing as history. Stay tuned for Newton's laws validating the literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. This is like if I followed you around a supermarket and claimed that your buying vegetables proves you eat nothing but junk food. Art must consider this blindingly ignorant trolling to be beneath him.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Inherited traits to children which were helpful to their fathers both will have to deal with regression to mean, as well as the varying necessity of said trait. Others have talked about regression to mean sufficiently, the latter I'll address a bit.

    The fact that the father, for example, was a great conqueror may not convey many advantages to his sons: ruling a kingdom is different from conquering one. Just because a certain trait and/or advantage is inherited does not mean that it'll be of specific use in the same role in the future due to environmental or sociological changes: for example, my ancestors were mandarins(petty government officials) largely because we scored well at written tests.

    I, too, may have inherited their ability to score well at written tests, but it doesn't qualify me in any special way to be a government official now.
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  75. @Tiny Duck
    white girls are increasingly giving birth to Chikdren of Color

    Diversity and justice are the future

    Read Sabaa Tahir and Marie Lu

    Heh heh heh…..”Chikdren O Color”…..Ohs Tinys you be’n killen me.

    Lebertnes “Lendbert don’t be knowing those other words…..what be a sahir?” Pittsb

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    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    fish, you make my day. :-)
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  76. @Bill P
    It's really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don't get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don't behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you're out of the community.

    One of the drawbacks of the modern welfare state is that it is an entitlement. Therefore, as long as you meet the objective criteria, you get it. Sadly the government can’t make “not an asshole” a criterion, but the church sure can.

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  77. @AndrewR
    I, for one, welcome our new Mormon eugenic overlords.

    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I’ve interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It’s sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that’s actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of “tribal” you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open–unlike the Jews–and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk–which they used to reject–it’s quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

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    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Thea
    Yep.

    I read a study a while back about groups that require their members to make sacrifices from the get go have high rates of social cohesion. Orthodox Jews, Mormons, the Amish all have this feature. As well as fraternities & some military groups.

    Frankly I'm always surprised Roissy and fellow travelers overlook the quintessentially American Mormon women.

    , @AndrewR
    How many black Mormons are there?

    I've known a number of Latino Mormons but they all were mostly if not completely white.

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    The future belongs to those who show up. There are apparently enough observant Catholics to warrant Wendy's promotion of its Premium Cod Filet Sandwich this time of year.

    Our semi-serious "Deep State" appears to have a not-insignificant number of Mormons in it. We had a Mormon presidential candidate, unthinkable when I was younger. The Mormons showed up.

    Speaking of the Deep State, I'm jealous of Turkey: we get closeted Mormons like Evan McMullen and they get the Sublime Porte. How cool is that? Let it roll off your tongue: The-ee SubLIME POR-r-r-rte.

    Here's a blog that claims the Mormon leaders no longer believe their founding documents:

    https://journeyofloyaldissent.wordpress.com/

    So if the author is correct, the Mormons are still working to dial the organization back from Joseph Smith's kookery.
    , @Lot
    My interactions with Mormans have also been very positive overall, and they are definitely well represented in federal law enforcement and public service. I can only think of two negatives. The open borders push you mentioned, and second they are involved with starting and running a lot of MLM and "natural remedy" health product frauds. Both if these seem to be confined to SLC Mormans.

    California Mormons seem to be mostly reside in nice upper middle class suburbs in intact families and are one of the backbones of our local GOPs, the ones who show up to volunteer to knock on doors to get irregular voters who are solid GOP partisans to actually vote in off years.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Someone once said he doesn't go to temple to be with god. Rather he goes there to be with other Jews. Therefore, you shouldn't think of Mormons necessarily believing everything in the Book of Mormon to be 100 percent literal.
    , @Hark, hark...the snark
    I was born 70 yrs go in Utah. Mormon family. When I was 12, I heard the story of the golden plates in detail for the first time and decided then and there it was just hooey. I don’t call myself Mormon. I have many cousins who are highly successful in medicine, law, and engineering careers who also are active in the Mormon church. It’s always puzzled me how such very intelligent people can buy-in to that theology. I’ve decided that, deep down, none of them really believe it.
    , @Francis G.
    My boss is a devout Mormon from a very large family, with a very large number of his own children. Nice guy, reasonably bright, but kind of naive and low-info. Despite being a manager with a business degree, he didn't have the slightest clue what globalism is or why it's not really a good thing for most White Americans. And I wonder about the future of his genetic line. His sister married a Samoan. Two of his grown children are morbidly obese, unemployed, and still live with their parents. Of course he's very proud of his three sons who are fighting ZOG wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. (I pray they make it back in one piece.) The other day he excitedly shared with me a video of a based black woman who explained to her audience that the Democrats are the real racists. As I said, really nice people but soooo naive.

    By the way, is this site suffering a denial-of-service attack or something? I've been having a helluva hard time getting Sailer's blog to come up and an even harder time posting comments.

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  78. @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

    Yep.

    I read a study a while back about groups that require their members to make sacrifices from the get go have high rates of social cohesion. Orthodox Jews, Mormons, the Amish all have this feature. As well as fraternities & some military groups.

    Frankly I’m always surprised Roissy and fellow travelers overlook the quintessentially American Mormon women.

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  79. @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

    How many black Mormons are there?

    I’ve known a number of Latino Mormons but they all were mostly if not completely white.

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  80. @Tiny Duck
    white girls are increasingly giving birth to Chikdren of Color

    Diversity and justice are the future

    Read Sabaa Tahir and Marie Lu

    No more Leonard Pitts?

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    • Replies: @fish

    No more Leonard Pitts?
     
    Lenderb "Whta bein me....chopped liver" Pizxt
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  81. @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

    The future belongs to those who show up. There are apparently enough observant Catholics to warrant Wendy’s promotion of its Premium Cod Filet Sandwich this time of year.

    Our semi-serious “Deep State” appears to have a not-insignificant number of Mormons in it. We had a Mormon presidential candidate, unthinkable when I was younger. The Mormons showed up.

    Speaking of the Deep State, I’m jealous of Turkey: we get closeted Mormons like Evan McMullen and they get the Sublime Porte. How cool is that? Let it roll off your tongue: The-ee SubLIME POR-r-r-rte.

    Here’s a blog that claims the Mormon leaders no longer believe their founding documents:

    https://journeyofloyaldissent.wordpress.com/

    So if the author is correct, the Mormons are still working to dial the organization back from Joseph Smith’s kookery.

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    • Replies: @Flip

    We had a Mormon presidential candidate, unthinkable when I was younger. The Mormons showed up.
     
    I've never heard of anyone having a problem with George Romney's religion when he ran for president in 1968.
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  82. @utu
    Mormon sample in this study was N<400.

    And? If the standard deviation in number of kids is 1, then 400 is plenty big enough to detect the giant differences displayed in the graph. 40 would be enough.

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    • Replies: @Peter Johnson
    Well, to be fair, 400 is at the lower end of just about enough. Not "plenty big enough" as you state. The results are interesting and indicative but not reliable.
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  83. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    The third one is really interesting, and as a millennial I hadn’t even thought about it.

    Of course, even in the upper crust neighborhoods, you now have to contend with a flood of Chinese and Indian. Further exploding real estate costs.

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  84. OT:
    Went to a Turkish news site for something else but had two Sailer-bait stories in the sidebar.

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkeys-genealogy-service-prompts-spike-in-double-citizenship-enquiries-127488

    Many Turkish citizens have taken steps to try to obtain the second citizenship, upon discovering their ancestry traced back to other countries such as Bulgaria, Greece, Romania, Macedonia and Bosnia-Herzegovina.

    Millions of people have flocked to the “e-government” portal (www.turkiye.gov.tr) after Turkey launched an online genealogy service at the start of February, allowing all people with a citizenship number to learn about their ancestors with just a few clicks. The records stretch back to Ottoman records in the early 19th century.

    Upon launching the demand was so intense that the website crashed soon after launching. The site was re-launched on Feb. 14.

    After finding that their ancestry is rooted in Europe, many amateur researchers have reportedly started researching options for double citizenship.

    Many who found that their ancestry traces back to EU-member countries such as Bulgaria, Greece and Romania have been particularly keen to look into possible double citizenship opportunities. Macedonia and Bosnia-Herzegovina are also thought to be receiving citizenship applications from Turkish citizens, with many submitting legal enquiries to the justice, foreign and interior ministries of the countries, as well as their consulates and embassies in Turkey.

    I’d say a massive proportion of West Anatolians could claim jus sanguine from some of these states, not that it will be a huge problem for those states since I’d say our newly-minted EU passport holders have other German and English-speaking labour markets in mind.

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/resentment-rising-against-syrian-refugees-in-turkeys-urban-centers-international-crisis-group-report-127548

    And at least 24 Syrians (11 others and not necessarily Turksish) have been killed in ‘intercommunal violence’ in one district of Istanbul during 2017.

    “Public services such as health and education, already strained by the district’s rapid expansion, have been further overstretched by the refugee influx. Locals complain about long lines at hospitals, crowded classrooms, skyrocketing rents, packed buses and piled-up trash. The sense that the Syrian influx has worsened the quality of life is sowing resentment among hosts, irrespective of political affiliation,” the ICG warned in its report.

    Sultangazi is home to pious Sunni Muslim conservatives, left-leaning Alevis, Turkish ultra-nationalists and Kurdish-speaking communities, who now live side by side with up to 50,000 Syrians, as well as approximately 8,000 migrants from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Azerbaijan.

    The ICG’s warning about Sultangazi came after an earlier report published last month called “Turkey’s Syrian Refugees: Defusing Metropolitan Tensions,” which focused on the rising intercommunal violence in the metropolitan areas.

    That report stated that violence between host communities and Syrian refugees increased threefold in the second half of 2017 compared to the same period in 2016 and at least 35 people died in these incidents during 2017, including 24 Syrians.

    “The potential for anti-refugee violence is highest in the metropolitan areas of Istanbul, Ankara and İzmir where host communities see Syrians as culturally different and resent their competition for low-wage jobs or customers, especially within the informal economy,” the report warned.

    Here is a link to the report mentioned.

    https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/248-turkey-s-syrian-refugees.pdf

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  85. OT: Can somebody help me out with Steven Pinker. He seems to both fight PC nonsense and agree with it at the same time. Is he just a classic libertarian who also is willing to look at genetics.

    In an interview with the Weekly Standard, he discusses indentity politics, which he is very much against because it is “an enemy of reason and Enlightenment values, including, ironically, the pursuit of justice for oppressed groups.” So for Pinker, it’s more about slowing academic progress.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/steven-pinker-identity-politics-is-an-enemy-of-reason-and-enlightenment-values/article/2011595#.WoZY9Tog79U.twitter

    In The Blank Slate I argued that leftist politics had distorted the study of human nature, including sex, violence, gender, childrearing, personality, and intelligence.

    Yea!

    The second is that people who suddenly discover forbidden facts outside the crucible of reasoned debate (which is what universities should be) can take them to dangerous conclusions, such as that differences between the sexes imply that we should discriminate against women (this kind of fallacy has fueled the alt-right movement).

    Wait. What? As best as I can tell, the alt-right is not an any way about unfairly discriminating against women or anybody else. It’s about being able to discuss racial and gender differences and about allowing whites to act as a group like everybody else. I realize that Pinker doesn’t like the white identity part of the the alt-right, but the discrimination part is a canard.

    If you are a morally serious person—whether a humanist or a Judeo-Christian, who believes that all human lives have equal value—then policies that lift billions of people out of crushing poverty at the expense of millions of Americans who are laid off from factory jobs are a moral no-brainer. But of course it would be political suicide for an American politician to consider this tradeoff for millisecond.

    I get his point, but does he really believe that we should view all people as exactly equal. Americans First is morally wrong in his mind, as presumably would be Israelis first or Japanese first. Can I not favor my children over others? His seems to be a very utopian view of the world, but maybe I’m misunderstanding.

    And as a Canadian I can confirm that free-market societies with greater social spending and regulation than the United States are not grim dystopias sliding down a slippery slope to Venezuela, but are rather pleasant places to live, with greater happiness and longevity, and less violent crime, abortion, sexually transmitted diseases, and educational mediocrity.

    Yes, but is that because of the economy system or the population. Once upon a time very socialist Sweden did quite well, but so did much more free markets United States. So long as the system isn’t too extreme, countries seem to do well or poorly mostly based on their population genetics. He knows this.

    To his credit, Pinker acknowledges genetic differences, i.e. groups and genders, are different, but then seems to say that we shouldn’t care. In a happy world, maybe that would be the case, but aren’t identity politics – which he seems to abhor – a natural outgrowth of group differences. Also, what’s so wrong about wanting to have a group identity, especially if others are doing the same.

    Pinker seems to be saying that the world would be better off if none of thought in terms of belonging to a group because it would be more efficient – and presumably less violent. That’s probably true. But it also seems like a very sad world. We are not islands. Perhaps Pinker is alright with belonging to certain types of groups for our social needs (chess club or a swim team) but not groups based on ethnicity or religion.

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding Pinker’s views, but his view that there should be no identity politics in a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-cultural country seems unrealistic.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Here's my quick take:
    1) Pinker seems to be a serious freethinker on some level. He is surely an atheist, but is also willing to to pursue inquiry even when it leads to conclusions unacceptable to current elites.
    2) He does take "morality" seriously, but seems to regard utilitarianism as the only viable form of morality.
    3) Although he is quite a smart guy, and knowledgeable, he does not seem to have a nuanced understanding of the contingent nature of human history.

    My own view is that utilitarianism is a horrible moral theory. It is horrible if you take it in a universalistic sense, and it is horrible if you take in some sort of more restricted sense, as some secular alt-rightists seem to take it (in practice, even if this is not so much discussed).
    , @Daniel Chieh
    I think he just wants to be a freethinker because shibboleths can impede the pursuit of truth but he maintains his Enlightenment ethics in spite of it. For example, it might be important to understand that a theoretical compulsion to rape might be natural in men and explain much in history, but it would still be unethical to encourage or accept rape.

    Or in Landian terms: a xenofeminist can acknowledge that there are biological differences in male and female strength, therefore correcting identifying biology as oppressive and thereby looking to invalidate the differences in strength between men and women. Not through denial, but through hormone treatment, differential emphasis on strength training, drugs, etc. If equality is a terminal virtue in your philosophy, then understanding that there is a real difference is useful because that allows you to honestly attack it at its source.

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  86. @Almost Missouri
    John Derbyshire ten years ago:

    "Hispanics are assimilating all right, but to urban-ghetto norms"

    https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/vital-statistics-john-derbyshire/

    Not in California, where there too few blacks and too many hispanics. Rather hispanics and the white/se asian lower and lower middle class are merging together.

    I have many comments here describing why Unz’s “hispanic crime rate is the same as the white rate” theory is wrong. But he does have a point: crime rates by USA mestizos are much lower than black rates and closer to white rates. Still clearly higher however.

    How long that will hold is yet another question. The typical Mexican American is roughly 50% white and 50% highland Indian. The new wave of mestizo immigrants from central america look more like 80% indian, and from lowland tropical tribes that were less civilized than pre-Colombian Mexicans. They are also darker, shorter, and thinner than Mexican indians.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    https://www.dps.texas.gov/texas10mostwanted/MostWanted/Fugitives

    7/10 classified as white hispanic

    a lot of crime stats drop the "hispanic" part so people who would be hispanic for affirmative action are white for the crime stats.

    #

    the homicide rates in Latin and especially central America are higher than the US black homicide rate.

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  87. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    Good stuff. I think 3 is really interesting. Finding an overwhelmingly white school building the US is hard these days. It was not as hard in the 80s. It seems to me that the consequence of this is likely eventually to be whites abandoning the public schools. Back in the 60s and 70s, when the federal government was semi-serious about desegregation but before white flight could complete, a bazillion private schools appeared all over the South. I wonder if that is going to happen again, except everywhere.

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    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    Just finished reading Real Education by Charles Murray and another education book by Diane Ravitch. My general takeaway is that peer and school quality are dramatically overrated in educational influence and that a lot of middle-class types are killing themselves financially for marginal at best educational advantages. Could the "good schools" mantra be more about status than actual education prospects?

    The caveat here is the non-academic component of schooling, i.e. peer morality, socialization, etc. Some might raise interracial violence as a major risk factor, but I'd wager that's pretty insignificant for people shopping outside the absolute worst metro areas in the country.
    , @istevefan
    There are still plenty of overwhelmingly white school districts in the US. You just have to be willing to live in a rural area. Personally I went to school in a little town in the midwest that had 2000 residents. The school only had around 50 kids per grade from K through 12.

    The downside is that employment opportunities are not good today in rural areas. So most people would not move there even though the cost of housing is dirt cheap.

    I am glad for having gone to school there even though I have long since moved to a larger urban area. I have never since felt the closeness and community that I experienced in that town. It was a great place to grow up.
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  88. @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

    My interactions with Mormans have also been very positive overall, and they are definitely well represented in federal law enforcement and public service. I can only think of two negatives. The open borders push you mentioned, and second they are involved with starting and running a lot of MLM and “natural remedy” health product frauds. Both if these seem to be confined to SLC Mormans.

    California Mormons seem to be mostly reside in nice upper middle class suburbs in intact families and are one of the backbones of our local GOPs, the ones who show up to volunteer to knock on doors to get irregular voters who are solid GOP partisans to actually vote in off years.

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  89. @william munny
    Talk to any honest waitress and they will tell you black customers tip the worst. They don't seem to understand the concept, maybe because they don't have much exposure to restaurants? Don't realize the waitress is otherwise making $2 an hour? Don't care and are willing to exploit this to get food cheaper than the generally expected going rate?

    I know someone who worked as a receptionist at a Red Lobster, which is a favorite for black diners willing to spend a few more bucks. The wait staff jockeyed fiercely to please the receptionist, who assigned customers to tables, to seat the white customers at their table. A typical meal for 4 might run around $100, and she said it wasn't uncommon for black customers to leave $2 or nothing at all, while being far more demanding of the waitress. And the amount of times hair or other objects are discovered in the food at the end of the meal is shocking.

    The code word among servers for blacks is “Canadian”.

    Regarding Red Lobster, go to your local one on any Sunday. It will be filled with Canadians dressed in their Sunday best enjoying their post-church repast.

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  90. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    You neglect to mention that 2 is a function of 1. If there was a regulation that only 1 income could be counted toward mortgage qualification, housing would become much more affordable.

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  91. @Proton Gakhe
    Mormonism is a surprisingly "nerd-friendly" denomination, come to think of it. It comes close to Judaism and the Eastern religions on that front. Also, I suspect Mormons love their kids (even their wayward ones) a lot more than Fundamentalists, Baptists, and Pentecostals.

    Mormon people and religion are far more functional than the Baptists, Pentacostals, and RC’s. The reason is the Mormons are generally of higher human capital than the others. Mormon religion, due to its pioneering origins and the fact it is exclusively an American creation, places far more emphasis on work ethic, individual self-reliance, and entrepreneurial/business success than the others.

    The Mormons I have personally met seem to actually enjoy doing the “family thing”. Baptists, pentecostals, and RC’s seem to do it only because the religion tells them to and don’t seem to actually enjoy it. I think the reason for this is that most Mormons are highly functioning people whereas the others are by and large dysfunctional individuals.

    As with everything else, the efficacy and quality of any particular religion, is based on human capital. It is reasonable to say that human capital is the basis of everything.

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  92. @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

    Someone once said he doesn’t go to temple to be with god. Rather he goes there to be with other Jews. Therefore, you shouldn’t think of Mormons necessarily believing everything in the Book of Mormon to be 100 percent literal.

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  93. @George
    Why are there few if any top tier Mormon scientists, artists, ect if Mormons are both smarter and more numerous?

    There are a few (e.g. Kip Thorne is of Mormon background) but the pressure to get married and settle down early and support a family prevents most from reaching their full potential in science etc. Also spending one’s best years in Tonga on a mission doesn’t help.

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    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    Also spending one’s best years in Tonga on a mission doesn’t help.
     
    Then there's Mitt Romney, who reportedly did his mission in France. Imagine trying to convert the citizens of the world's leading wine-producing nation to a teetotal religion. It also can't help that Frenchmen enthusiastically smoke their Gauloises and love their strong black coffee, while Mormonism forbids both tobacco and any caffeinated beverage to its votaries.

    I wonder how effective Mormon "missionaries" are in terms of winning converts, or whether their church really cares. Might it be that a young Mormon's mission is viewed more as a part of his education than as a serious effort to augment the numbers of the faithful - rather like the British custom of taking "gap year" between completing a public school education and matriculating at Oxford or Cambridge?

    Bishop Wilberforce's rhyme went -

    "If I were a cassowary
    On the plains of Timbuctoo,
    I'd surely eat a missionary,
    Cassock, bands, and hymn book too!"

    It seems to me that serious missionaries of any faith ought to be sent to places where they have the opportunity to encounter cassowaries.
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  94. That could potentially be titled “America’s most important graph”

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  95. @Lot
    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

    Excellent–and critical–point, Lot.

    US readers here should take a good look at those black graphs. I’ve noted in a few comments over the years that US black fertility is highly dysgenic. The smart, educated black gals mostly want to have children in the civilized (white) fashion–husband, nuclear family. But it’s hard for them to do it. They overwhelmingly want black men. Educated black men are much rarer than educated black women. A number of them marry white women. Others will marry down to less educated but cuter black women. Educated black women who aren’t particularly attractive have a hard time landing a suitable black man to make a family with. I know a couple. Theirs is not a happy lot. (And of course they have no love for the Nicole Browns of the world.)

    Bottom line: we’re growing a population of even dumber blacks. Leavened somewhat by the unfortunate influx of white genes. I think we’ll be seeing even more striking bifurcation in the black community, with the mulatto elite, able to tap all the AA sinecures, nominally speaking for an ever more dystopian underclass.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    "Bottom line: we’re growing a population of even dumber blacks."

    I'm afraid that's been going on since 1619. BTW, will there be a celebration next year to conmemorate (or mourn, or both) the first African slaves brought to the then Colonies?
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  96. @Lot
    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

    The hypocrisy of SWPL whites seems highly eugenic. The women who were actually smart and driven enough to get good-paying careers then marry a similar male and have a couple kids. The rest become cat ladies.

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  97. OT – following a crackdown on illegal workers in Thailand and Malaysia, the poor employers have had “no choice” but to raise wages.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Policy-Politics/ASEAN-labor-flows-hit-a-wall-with-growing-migrant-crackdown?page=2

    “Both countries have implemented systems letting migrant workers register for legal status and receive temporary approvals to stay in the country. But fewer than 200,000 such approvals were issued in Malaysia through November as many migrants, fearing arrest, opted to return home. As many as 1 million workers in Malaysia, and a similar number in Thailand, are believed to have become unemployable under the new regulations, leaving a massive hole in the labor force.

    The industries hit hardest are those that relied the most on foreign workers, including agriculture, construction and labor-intensive manufacturing. Businesses have no choice but to raise wages to attract legal workers, including locals, to fill the gap.

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  98. @AnotherDad

    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.
     
    Excellent--and critical--point, Lot.

    US readers here should take a good look at those black graphs. I've noted in a few comments over the years that US black fertility is highly dysgenic. The smart, educated black gals mostly want to have children in the civilized (white) fashion--husband, nuclear family. But it's hard for them to do it. They overwhelmingly want black men. Educated black men are much rarer than educated black women. A number of them marry white women. Others will marry down to less educated but cuter black women. Educated black women who aren't particularly attractive have a hard time landing a suitable black man to make a family with. I know a couple. Theirs is not a happy lot. (And of course they have no love for the Nicole Browns of the world.)

    Bottom line: we're growing a population of even dumber blacks. Leavened somewhat by the unfortunate influx of white genes. I think we'll be seeing even more striking bifurcation in the black community, with the mulatto elite, able to tap all the AA sinecures, nominally speaking for an ever more dystopian underclass.

    “Bottom line: we’re growing a population of even dumber blacks.”

    I’m afraid that’s been going on since 1619. BTW, will there be a celebration next year to conmemorate (or mourn, or both) the first African slaves brought to the then Colonies?

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    I disagree. I think black fertility was eugenic after slavery until welfare in the 1960s; you didn't work, you didn't eat.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    BTW, will there be a celebration next year to conmemorate (or mourn, or both) the first African slaves brought to the then Colonies?
     
    A giant papal-style Year of Mourning could be the most effective "white nationalist" strategy for 2019.

    "We could have been a warm Canada!"

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  99. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    Too true. It seems the desire for your wife to work is social status. What would it take, economically, for your wife to be a SAH mom, and perhaps with her Ivy background homeschooling the child?

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  100. @Lot
    There are some academic studies on this, and dysgenic fertility is worst in the third world, and barely happening among Western whites.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

    Genotype IQ is falling hard and fast in Africa, South America, MENA, and among African Americans.

    [Separate point, so separate comment]

    Add India to that specific list.

    The traditional eugenic fertility of a harsh competitive Malthusian environment is gone.

    I know a lot of middle class–i.e. upper caste–Indians, especially Brahmins. This class is being hollowed out. Their families already have sub-replacement fertility, super-charged by out-migration. Meanwhile the lower castes–despite their economic status–and the muzzies are still booming along.

    A couple generations along–if this continues–and you’ll have an India of 2 billion people with a considerably shrunken–not just relatively, but absolutely–smart fraction. Scary stuff.

    ~

    BTW, this is yet-another-reason why “one people” nations are so much nicer to live in. In a one-people nation like say Korea or Japan, if there was recognition that there was an issue with dysgenic fertility it would be possible to actually have a national “conversation” about it and put in place measures to encourage eugenic fertility.

    In “diverse” nations like India or the US–and now the UK, France, Sweden …–any such conversation is swallowed up by ethnic issues/ethnic politics. Cries of “racism!” and the knives come out.

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  101. Interesting–definitely fits with my personal experience. Conservative whites (of whatever flavor) seem to have strongly eugenic fertility patterns; liberal whites and Asians seem to have neutral patterns, non-whites seem to have strongly dysgenic patterns. I see the above Mormon pattern even in my agnostic but politically conservative friends.

    Looking at my entire extended family, now that most of my cousins are winding up their childbearing years, I don’t see any strong correlation (for either gender) between fertility and physical attractiveness, parental income during childhood, height, physical fitness, make of car, or any other stuff that seemed important to me back in the 1980s; but SAT score and political voting patterns predicted fertility pretty darn well.

    Well, I guess demographics is destiny, and not just in terms of raw numbers.

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  102. @Daniel Chieh
    Adoption studies. Intelligence is well correlated with biological parents.

    Why nobility fails is interesting - I think that in short, inbreeding does cause more problems than the advantages. Worldwide, it really does seem that nobility were much more consanguious than their fellows.

    As for distinguished families:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_family

    Another great example would be the Bohr family–Niels Bohr is the most famous one and one of the greatest physicists of all time; his dad made seminal discoveries in physiology (specifically in oxygen binding to hemoglobin), his son also won the physics Nobel. So three generations of world famous scientists; 2/3 won the Nobel and would have been 3/3 if the Nobels had been around in the grandfather’s halcyon days.

    The Termans are another example.

    Personally I think the reason you don’t see too many stable dynasties is 1.) entropy and 2.) powerful males often start to make bad marriage decisions–they tend to go for vapid but pretty, feminine girls. A better choice would be a challenging but smart, slightly masculine girl.

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  103. OT – related somewhat to the previous posts you have done on the Classics (Zuck’s sister’s publication), here is a post about the problem with classical music.

    Classical Music’s White Male Supremacy is Overt, Pervasive, and a Problem

    Recognizing that Classical Music has implied White Supremacy for centuries is hard for those that study the art form. In fact, that correlating The Met’s continued programming of dead white men to the rise of White Supremacist tendencies in America is not a far stretch is starting to become apparent to those that follow and review the company’s season announcements.

    Of course Italian Opera traditions are rich and are the backbone for many composers, but when an American institution, founded on the grounds of Natives and whose nation’s economy was fueled by the labor of slavery continues in 2018 to program exclusively white men, there’s a message being sent to those who don’t fall into that category.

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  104. OT:

    Rubbish dump collapse in Mozambique kills 17, but I’m sure the Portuguese are to blame.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-43117116

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    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L35vqnHq1ZM
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  105. @Bill P
    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn't apply to Canadians.

    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn’t apply to Canadians

    Back in the 1970s someone asked why the Kings weren’t drawing better in LA, what with 800,000 Canadians living in Southern California at the time. He said, yeah, they’re here because they hate hockey! (Cf. Derb on soccer.)

    With no pro football for many years, and the degradation of basketball culture, and the Latinization of local soccer culture, it’s not surprising that the Dodger and Angel crowd would look to more amenable sports in the off-season.

    America is one of the rare countries where soccer is a bourgeois, rather than proletarian, activity (hence “soccer moms”). LA hockey is an iced variation of this, it seems.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Oops, sorry. "He" refers to Jack Kent Cooke, who owned the LA Kings.
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  106. @Reg Cæsar

    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn’t apply to Canadians
     
    Back in the 1970s someone asked why the Kings weren't drawing better in LA, what with 800,000 Canadians living in Southern California at the time. He said, yeah, they're here because they hate hockey! (Cf. Derb on soccer.)

    With no pro football for many years, and the degradation of basketball culture, and the Latinization of local soccer culture, it's not surprising that the Dodger and Angel crowd would look to more amenable sports in the off-season.

    America is one of the rare countries where soccer is a bourgeois, rather than proletarian, activity (hence "soccer moms"). LA hockey is an iced variation of this, it seems.

    Oops, sorry. “He” refers to Jack Kent Cooke, who owned the LA Kings.

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  107. White friends have 3 kids. Wife was a high school grad and couldn’t make enough money to hire out raising the kids. So she stayed home. She got so much shit from the ‘working’ mothers. The WM’s were 50 hours a week away from home with commuting and all. Stay at home mom didn’t; she had a real easy life by comparison. And the WM’s would remind her of that whenever they could.

    Now they are dead average IQ, both high school and that was it.

    The brighter peeps I know are none or one kid. The womyn realize they can’t have it all; stay home with the kids and lose the second income that would pay for the foreign travel, nice restaurants, better home and neighborhood, and other fun things. I know several womyn that really resent their husband because he doesn’t have to make a choice between work or the kids. He’s working. She has to juggle both and attempt multi-tasking where she does several things at the same time; all ineptly.

    I’m not too fond of mormons, like someone already commented, they tend to be crooks and scammers. Not all, but well above other whites. Just like the Zyd’s.

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  108. OT: This headline wasn’t on Drudge, but weather.com:

    Mozambique Garbage Pile Collapses Amid Heavy Rainfall, Killing 17

    https://weather.com/news/news/2018-02-19-mozambique-garbage-pile-collapse-maputo

    Last year’s was deadlier:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/rubbish-dump-landslide-kills-deadly-ethiopia-capital-addis-ababa-a7625721.html

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    • Replies: @JSM
    Foreshadowing of the Great Garbage Avalanche of 2505.
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  109. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Yes, there is a lot of data showing intelligence is inherited. There are many many twin studies and adoption studies showing the heritability of IQ to be about 50% in first world countries.

    As for Nobel Prizes, I assume you mean intra-family Nobel winners, and there are many more of those than you would expect by chance. There have been 4 father-son pairs to win the Nobel Prize in physics:

    William Bragg and Lawrence Bragg, 1915
    Niels Bohr, 1922 and Aage N. Bohr, 1975
    Manne Siegbahn, 1924 and Kai M. Siegbahn, 1981
    J. J. Thomson, 1906 and George Paget Thomson, 1937

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  110. @Samuel Skinner
    https://www.ranker.com/list/mormon-scientists/famous-mormons

    H. Tracy Hall
    Invented synthetic diamonds

    Robert B. Ingebretsen
    Developer of the first practical digital audio recording system

    James LeVoy Sorenson
    Co-inventor of real-time computerized heart monitor and 40 other medical patents

    William Clayton
    Inventor of the "roadometer", an early version of the modern odometer

    You kind of make George’s point. Compared to other groups famed for innovations in science and/or engineering, like Germans, Scots, or Jews, it’s a rather paltry list.

    Philo Farnsworth is certainly of note. And perhaps even more so John Browning, who made it much easier and more efficient to kill people.

    By the way, that website you link to is a little off.

    I’m pretty sure that this guy:

    https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/120/2391339/original/william-clayton-all-people-photo-u1?w=87&h=87&fit=crop&crop=faces&q=60&fm=jpg

    did not die in 1879 (look at his clothes).

    Moreover, I’m pretty sure that this guy:

    https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50010/1000194181/original/h-tracy-hall-all-people-photo-u1?w=87&h=87&fit=crop&crop=faces&q=60&fm=jpg

    did not invent synthetic diamonds.

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  111. @AndrewR
    I, for one, welcome our new Mormon eugenic overlords.

    I, for one, welcome our new Mormon eugenic overlords

    My kids just discovered the Simpsons, and they pulled that episode up as I was reading this. The eugenic angle is reinforced by their other obsession of the moment, “Dumb Ways to Die” and its many parodies.

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  112. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    Not. In. Philly.

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  113. Catholics used to have neighborhood support and extended families to make having lots of children practical, but the smart, nerdy ones tended to go into religious orders and didn’t pass on their genes.

    With occasional exceptions like Heloise and Abelard, who did BOTH.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    the Mormon cultural blueprint is what used to be standard old-timey small-town Christian - and their relative success shows us just how much the rest of our culture has been poisoned
    , @Corn
    “the smart, nerdy ones tended to go into religious orders and didn’t pass on their genes.”

    I’ve wondered before what the West would look like today if the Catholic Church hadn’t instituted the celibacy requirement.
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  114. @Rod1963
    Makes sense. Mormons have a strong faith along community and tribal support. IOW they have a family friendly environment. Your average white nuclear family has none of this. Basically mom and dad are on their own, their parents 3000 miles away, etc.

    Worse many have bought into the consumer lifestyle of a big Toll Brothers tract home, a BMW and Lexus in the drive way, living in a city, etc. Basically in debt up to their eyebrows and total wage slaves whether they like it or not. BOHICA.

    Doesn't matter that they make six figures or work at Google, all their income gets sucked up in rent, mortgage and car payments.

    Not family friendly at all but a great path to extinction.

    That sounds nice but isn’t true.

    Utah leads the nation (top 10 state) in bankruptcy, affinity fraud, prescription drug abuse, and child abuse. Utah is the number one state in the nation for child sexual abuse.

    Mormons divorce at the same rate as the national average. If you include part-time work, Mormon women work outside the home at the same rate non-Mormons.

    Many, if not most, of the newer apartment complexes in the Salt Lake City area are reserved for low-income tenants. Because Mormons have their own welfare system, Utah does not lead the nation in food stamps. (Years ago, the US military was so embarrassed that so many service members were on food stamps that the military created its own food program to stop the bad publicity.)

    Nowadays, the Mormon families with the jaw-dropping number of kids are often led by a patriarch who is a successful professional, but that is not an accurate reflection of the average Mormon family that is struggling financially and psychologically.

    The number of nursing homes in and around Salt Lake City is staggering. Mormons who have raised numerous children are spending their last years in institutions just like non-Mormons.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Why don't the military members who can't afford food eat in the mess halls? Sounds like they want to have their cake and eat it too, literally in this case.
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  115. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    My UK experience is that for the middle classes, being an SAHM is the status symbol, not a working one. Most working women, especially full-timers, would love love love to be at the school gates each day. However, this might be my age cohort (late 50s) because

    a) housing was less expensive when we were raising children

    b) our women weren’t so filled with “you-go-girl” feminism.

    On the other hand, a forty-something doctor I know, three kids, has just given up work, her husband earns enough and her stress levels are way down now.

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  116. @Lot
    Not in California, where there too few blacks and too many hispanics. Rather hispanics and the white/se asian lower and lower middle class are merging together.

    I have many comments here describing why Unz's "hispanic crime rate is the same as the white rate" theory is wrong. But he does have a point: crime rates by USA mestizos are much lower than black rates and closer to white rates. Still clearly higher however.

    How long that will hold is yet another question. The typical Mexican American is roughly 50% white and 50% highland Indian. The new wave of mestizo immigrants from central america look more like 80% indian, and from lowland tropical tribes that were less civilized than pre-Colombian Mexicans. They are also darker, shorter, and thinner than Mexican indians.

    https://www.dps.texas.gov/texas10mostwanted/MostWanted/Fugitives

    7/10 classified as white hispanic

    a lot of crime stats drop the “hispanic” part so people who would be hispanic for affirmative action are white for the crime stats.

    #

    the homicide rates in Latin and especially central America are higher than the US black homicide rate.

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  117. @Barnard
    OT:

    Rubbish dump collapse in Mozambique kills 17, but I'm sure the Portuguese are to blame.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-43117116

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  118. @Rosamond Vincy
    Catholics used to have neighborhood support and extended families to make having lots of children practical, but the smart, nerdy ones tended to go into religious orders and didn't pass on their genes.

    With occasional exceptions like Heloise and Abelard, who did BOTH.

    the Mormon cultural blueprint is what used to be standard old-timey small-town Christian – and their relative success shows us just how much the rest of our culture has been poisoned

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  119. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    you missed out mass immigration which is the real driving force

    your point (3) is the key factor – most people want their kids to be in the ethnic majority at their local school (it’s one of the reasons most immigrant groups form enclaves) and for very practical reasons i.e. the vast majority of inter-racial or inter-ethnic violence is committed by teenage gangs in and around the schools.

    mass immigration and forced integration have made achieving this very difficult for lower income, increasingly middle and now even high income white families and it will eventually become impossible with HUD saying no neighborhood can be more than 50% white.

    this is the pressure which drove white flight to the suburbs, forced white families to spend an increasing percentage of their income on housing and pushed women out to work.

    mass immigration.

    if the media didn’t lie about anti-white violence in white minority schools it would be obvious to everyone what the problem is.

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  120. @Reg Cæsar
    OT: This headline wasn't on Drudge, but weather.com:

    Mozambique Garbage Pile Collapses Amid Heavy Rainfall, Killing 17

    https://weather.com/news/news/2018-02-19-mozambique-garbage-pile-collapse-maputo

    Last year's was deadlier:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/rubbish-dump-landslide-kills-deadly-ethiopia-capital-addis-ababa-a7625721.html

    Foreshadowing of the Great Garbage Avalanche of 2505.

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  121. @ScarletNumber
    Bill Cosby had 5 kids, and he has a doctorate from UMass.

    Bill Cosby isn’t smart. He has a severe learning disability. He scored 500 out of 1600 on the SAT. (You earn 400 on the SAT simply by signing your name.) He went through the 10th grade three times before dropping out of high school and getting a correspondence GED.

    He managed to earn college degrees simply because he was given credit for his life’s work. For his bachelor’s degree he received course credits for his experience in the Navy. Cosby’s doctorate is in education, just like half of all blacks with a doctorate. Cosby did his dissertation on the two children’s shows he made — Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids.

    It is too bad that Rita Moreno and Morgan Freeman didn’t think to get doctorates for their work on The Electric Company.

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    • Replies: @JosephB
    Do you really think Bill Cosby's intellect is well represented by his 500 SAT score? That would correspond to an IQ of ~73. It's hard to be a stand-up comedian with that level of intelligence, particularly one who avoids profanity.
    , @ScarletNumber
    While you are pointing out that Cosby isn't smart, I want to point out that Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids is one show, not two.
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  122. @Travis
    The number of Blacks in America has doubled every 40 years

    1930 - 11,500,000 Blacks
    1970 - 22,400,000 Blacks
    2010 - 42,800,000 Blacks

    while the number of whites has not kept pace
    1930 - 110 million Whites
    1970 - 171 million Whites
    2010 - 195 million Whites

    There were more whites under the age of 50 in 1970 than today. In 1970 10% of whites were over the age of 60 while today 20% of the white people are elderly (over the age of 60)

    The average Black American is 31 years-old , while the average age of whites is 49 Years-old. importing 50 million hispanic has helped reduce the power and influence of Blacks. If immigration had been stopped in 1980 20% of the population would be Black today.

    The ratio of whites to Blacks has gone from 9-1 to 5-1 over the last 75 years in America.

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  123. @Almost Missouri
    Does 2nd Thessalonians 3:10 count?

    "Who does not work, neither shall he eat."

    ““Who does not work, neither shall he eat.””

    I thought it was Lenin who said that?

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    • Replies: @Flip
    John Smith in Jamestown, Virginia and Lenin later

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat
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  124. @Rosamond Vincy
    Catholics used to have neighborhood support and extended families to make having lots of children practical, but the smart, nerdy ones tended to go into religious orders and didn't pass on their genes.

    With occasional exceptions like Heloise and Abelard, who did BOTH.

    “the smart, nerdy ones tended to go into religious orders and didn’t pass on their genes.”

    I’ve wondered before what the West would look like today if the Catholic Church hadn’t instituted the celibacy requirement.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    one of my recent-ish ancestors was a cop in a docks area during the 1930s and apart from his own family was rumored to have had dozens of kids with various women down the docks.

    i think Catholic priests probably had lots of kids.

    (not saying that as a bad thing btw - at least not from a eugenic point of view)

    , @Anon
    Like Greece?
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  125. @AnotherDad
    The Mormon thing is very appealing. I've interacted with several Mormons at work and in scouting, and while there are the usual jerks here and there overall a good group of guys. The Mormons seem to have a system that allows them to operate in modernity, but still maintain strong patriarchal families, and produce eugenic fertility.

    Of course the theology is mind-numblingly stupid. It's sufficiently off-putting that basically no intelligent, well-adjusted non-Mormon can sign on. But i think that's actually a feature, that explains how these sorts of things work. To function with the high esprit de corps to have and enforce a separate behavioral code, any system like this must have some character to induce a sort of "tribal" you-and-me-against-the-world element that keeps it separate. (In other words create a pretty hard boundary like the Jews.)

    The downside is that while the Mormons have a theology that keeps them separate, because they are open--unlike the Jews--and have embraced all the modern racial happy-talk--which they used to reject--it's quite likely that they are headed toward racial dissolution and mediocrity despite the impressive eugenic fertility.

    I was born 70 yrs go in Utah. Mormon family. When I was 12, I heard the story of the golden plates in detail for the first time and decided then and there it was just hooey. I don’t call myself Mormon. I have many cousins who are highly successful in medicine, law, and engineering careers who also are active in the Mormon church. It’s always puzzled me how such very intelligent people can buy-in to that theology. I’ve decided that, deep down, none of them really believe it.

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    • Replies: @notanon

    It’s always puzzled me how such very intelligent people can buy-in to that theology.
     
    I used to think that but now I find it increasingly hard to understand how people could give up a massively adaptive cultural blueprint over theology.
    , @Jack D
    Generally speaking the Orthodox Jewish POV on this is that it's between you and the man upstairs whether you believe this stuff or not. All that they ask is that, in your actions, you observe all of the commandments and then you are a member of the community in good standing. Owning your head and demanding that you LOVE big brother with all your heart is totalitarian. What is in your head and heart is a private matter. Others can only judge you buy your deeds and can never really know your thoughts anyway. Those who proclaim their thoughts the loudest are the ones who are probably lying anyway. And what good are pure thoughts if they are not accompanied by good acts?
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  126. @Triumph104
    Bill Cosby isn't smart. He has a severe learning disability. He scored 500 out of 1600 on the SAT. (You earn 400 on the SAT simply by signing your name.) He went through the 10th grade three times before dropping out of high school and getting a correspondence GED.

    He managed to earn college degrees simply because he was given credit for his life's work. For his bachelor's degree he received course credits for his experience in the Navy. Cosby's doctorate is in education, just like half of all blacks with a doctorate. Cosby did his dissertation on the two children's shows he made -- Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids.

    It is too bad that Rita Moreno and Morgan Freeman didn't think to get doctorates for their work on The Electric Company.

    Do you really think Bill Cosby’s intellect is well represented by his 500 SAT score? That would correspond to an IQ of ~73. It’s hard to be a stand-up comedian with that level of intelligence, particularly one who avoids profanity.

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    • Replies: @Triumph104
    Bill Cosby is of average intelligence with strong social skills. He is not smart nor is he borderline retarded. His SAT score and flunking the tenth grade three times indicates that he has a major learning disability.

    I have never thought of Bill Cosby's comedy as intelligent, but I have only heard him talk about family. Most black comedians can do that sort of humor, but they don't because black people gravitate towards negative behavior. Being vulgar was more lucrative for blacks in rap music, perhaps it is the same for comedy.
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  127. I think the figures need to be separate for women and men. I suppose Black women with advanced degrees will have very low fertility, while educated Black men have rather good fertility, but not with black women.

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  128. @BB753
    "Bottom line: we’re growing a population of even dumber blacks."

    I'm afraid that's been going on since 1619. BTW, will there be a celebration next year to conmemorate (or mourn, or both) the first African slaves brought to the then Colonies?

    I disagree. I think black fertility was eugenic after slavery until welfare in the 1960s; you didn’t work, you didn’t eat.

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    • Replies: @notanon
    yes - i think it was improving slowly (from a lower base maybe) but then got hit with "coming apart" sooner. you can see the same behaviors that plague the black underclass growing among the more recent white underclass.
    , @BB753
    Perhaps some social metrics were better: fewer illegitimate births, workforce participation, etc but black criminality and misbehavior remained virtually constant throughout the period you mention, that is, compararable to modern rates.
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  129. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting.

    And these days, they usually are. See: the North American military dependapotamus.

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    • Disagree: Corn
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  130. @FPD72
    Polygamist Mormons (who are outside the LDS Church) have extremely high rates of welfare participation. Legally, wives two through N are single mothers and qualify for all of the programs. They call it “bleeding the beast.”

    Do they have to name the fathers who then have to pay child support?

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    • Replies: @gunner29

    Do they have to name the fathers who then have to pay child support?
     
    If they get public welfare they do. First thang they ask the womyn; who's Daddy? Then the welfare agency goes after them hammer and tongs to get the money!

    It was part of the Welfare Reform BJ Clinton signed in '96. The republicans insisted they collect the cash or there would be consequences.....

    Kali was one of the worst abusing the guys. After they had a name, but no address, they would look in the DMV drivers license database and send the notice to the closest guy with that name. He had 30 days to respond and if he didn't, the welfare minions would get a default judgement and he was stuck with child support until the kid was 18!

    It was somewhere around $50K 15 years ago to get a lawyer to fight it. Probably double that today.

    Most of the underclass guys just disappeared and went underground. If you had some income, pay the state or a lawyer....
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  131. @mom
    Aspiring parents may find that comment discouraging.

    Educated, cosmopolitan whites don't have to have it so tough. There are still plenty of ways for whites to get ahead and afford a family in U.S. society. For instance -- join the military* and do 4 years out of high school. All your needs are paid for and you can save $30,000 - $90,000 over those 4 years. Yes, really -- I'm an accountant and veteran and ran the numbers for various scenarios. The 4 years don't have to be 'wasted' because college credits can be amassed via CLEP tests, which are free to active-duty servicemembers. Then, finish up college for free with the amazing G.I. Bill. That takes about 2-3 years.

    So 6 years out of high school you are 24 years old, have $30,000 - $90,000 in your bank account, no debt, and a college degree.

    When it's time to buy a house, the VA lets you buy one with no money down.

    Point 3) about minority births at 50% -- that's the average for the entire country. Go to an area of the country where that's not true. Housing prices will be lower. Be as 'cosmopolitan' as you want by forming your own circle of intellectual friends or whatnot.

    To be clear, I do *not* recommend staying in the military with a family. It's tough on families. Just do 4 years out of high school then GTFO.

    *Joining the military is a great way for females to avoid the hookup culture of majority-female college campuses. Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males, some of whom are high-quality types with honorable intentions.

    Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males

    Only by fools who don’t realize that there are normal women lacking the cosmically-inflated egos of military women outside the gate. Which is to say, yes, quite a few of them.

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    • Replies: @mom
    I was referring to the lopsided sex ratio being beneficial for the women, not the men. For this reason a man should most definitely do the 4 years, GTFO, and be big man on campus as an older man among the female undergrads. Post-9/11 GI Bill currently pays over $3K month, tax-free, to be a college student in NYC, over and above the fact that it pays tuition. So yeah it may be 4 years of purgatory among the ego-inflated military gals, but there's a payoff.
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  132. @The Anti-Gnostic
    The future belongs to those who show up. There are apparently enough observant Catholics to warrant Wendy's promotion of its Premium Cod Filet Sandwich this time of year.

    Our semi-serious "Deep State" appears to have a not-insignificant number of Mormons in it. We had a Mormon presidential candidate, unthinkable when I was younger. The Mormons showed up.

    Speaking of the Deep State, I'm jealous of Turkey: we get closeted Mormons like Evan McMullen and they get the Sublime Porte. How cool is that? Let it roll off your tongue: The-ee SubLIME POR-r-r-rte.

    Here's a blog that claims the Mormon leaders no longer believe their founding documents:

    https://journeyofloyaldissent.wordpress.com/

    So if the author is correct, the Mormons are still working to dial the organization back from Joseph Smith's kookery.

    We had a Mormon presidential candidate, unthinkable when I was younger. The Mormons showed up.

    I’ve never heard of anyone having a problem with George Romney’s religion when he ran for president in 1968.

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  133. @eD
    "“Who does not work, neither shall he eat.”"

    I thought it was Lenin who said that?

    John Smith in Jamestown, Virginia and Lenin later

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_who_does_not_work,_neither_shall_he_eat

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  134. @Anonspc
    Mormon art is having a moment. Bands like The Killers are broadly popular and movies like Napoleon Dynamite as well. Mormon pop art was perhaps even THE defining aesthetic of the naughties.
    Also, lds serve in intelligence capacities (mil intel, fbi etc) at rates way beyond their numbers suggest so it’s possible the lack of “public” lds intellectuals is mirrored in the success of the “shadow” lds intellectuals

    Napoleon Dynamite was like 14 years ago. What”s the last Mormon-produced, written, or directed movie that entered the popular culture in a big way?

    The truth is that Mormons are underrepresented in culture compared to what their numbers and intelligence would suggest. Their religion sucks up too much of their time and their brain power.

    As for the future, Mormons are heavily recruiting among the lower IQ groups. First World populations have all but stopped joining. Mormon missionaries sent to Europe spend two years and frequently don’t win a single convert. Same goes with English-speaking missionaries in the US.

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  135. @Proton Gakhe
    How do Jews tip? There are two stereotypes: really bad and really good; but what would an honest waitress say?

    I remember them being fair (20-%) but demanding (all the way to trying to dictate music levels) get a four top of jewish women though, then you have trouble. They don’t care how busy you are, they want be tended to.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Jackie Mason used to do a very funny (because true) shtick about Jewish customers in a restaurant vs. WASP. The WASP customers just accept whatever they get. The Jewish customers complain constantly - their table is too close to the door, it's too close to the kitchen, it's too hot in the restaurant, it's too cold, the food is too salty, it's not salty enough, etc.,etc.

    But as far as tipping, modern Jews are, in my experience, pretty good tippers, the "cheap" stereotype notwithstanding. They are not going to do the "Canadian" thing and leave little or no tip unless they are deeply aggrieved ( far beyond just the usual ritual kvetching) nor are they going to go wild and start drunkenly giving out $100 bills, but they are going to tip at the upper end of the normal range.
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  136. @Bill P
    It's really quite simple:

    Mormon welfare (among other expenses) is paid for with a 10% flat tax on earnings (tithing). It is also administered by elders who apply Mormon moral tests to recipients.

    You don't get much welfare for being a single mother whose baby-daddy is in prison for gang-related activities. Nor do you get it for being an adulteress, a layabout or an addict.

    Therefore, Mormons who have it together can afford more kids, even if they are working class. Since having it together is correlated with rational decisionmaking ability, it is correlated with IQ.

    Traditional Christianity used to be the same. The New Testament makes it clear that if you don't behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you're out of the community.

    Sorry Bill. Not quite right. The 10% tithing does not go towards welfare at all.
    The welfare program comes from a system we have where we are expected to fast for two meals a month, and pool that money to help the poor. Unlike taxes, we literally sacrifice our meals to feed others. The recipients of this assistance know that they are quite literally having others go hungry to help them out. While there are still abusers and freeloaders, of course, I think this cuts down substantially on the sense of entitlement I often see in tax-based government welfare programs.

    Don’t get me wrong though — there is no public shaming or the like in the program. The congregation is unaware of who is receiving the funds, aside from a couple of trusted volunteers that are in the know in administrating the funds (which are fully audited as well, of course, to prevent abuses).

    The program works quite well, and my son once did an analysis of data on hunger in the US that indicated that if this “skip two meals once a month to help others” program were deployed nationally, it could end hunger in the US.

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    • Replies: @Bill P
    Thanks for the info. So there's actually a separate "tax" beyond the 10% tithing, which comes out to roughly what? I know Mormons know how to eat on the cheap (so do I; I have been known to visit the bulk aisles at Winco from time to time), so the cost of two meals could vary considerably.

    Also, what about the hard cases? Say you have someone who just sleeps in until noon every day, spends the rest on social media and blows her child support check on frivolous entertainment and sexy clothes, yet still has an pharaonic sense of entitlement. This is actually a pretty common profile, BTW. How do you deal with her?

    As to your son's idea, I'm sure he's correct. Skipping two meals a month would more than eliminate hunger in the US. However, it would have another less desirable consequence: it would exacerbate the class difference in obesity rates by making the middle class and above thinner while making the underclass even fatter.
    , @Jack D
    I'm sorry but I don't believe that, after all the US government spends on food assistance, that hunger in the US actually exists except among people who must be so highly dysfunctional that they can't even work the welfare system. The ghettos of the US are filled with the fattest looking "hungry" people that have ever existed in all of history. If you want to see what actual hungry people look like, visit Venezuela nowadays or a slum in India or some other places in the turd world and you'll see guys with their rib cages showing and legs like toothpicks. Or pictures of the American POWs that were held by Japan in WWII. THAT's what hungry people look like. I have never seen anyone who looks like that in the US, not once. Runway models don't count.
    , @Anonymous
    At one point there was a clear relationship between the storehouse and the in-kind fast offerings, and I think they still teach it the way you describe to give some meaning and rationale for the fast. But I don’t know that there’s a strict segregation of funds now with fungible cash donations. I would draw your attention to the disclaimer on the donation slips:

    Though reasonable efforts will be made to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission.
     
    Moreover, I can tell you that the amount collected in local fast offerings has, as far as I can tell, ZERO relationship with local welfare expenditures, and from what I’ve seen the expenditures are usually FAR higher, even in wards where you wouldn’t necessarily expect it.
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  137. How very interesting!

    I think it is because often Mormons have as many children as they can afford to raise, and there is a known correlation between income and IQ. (Some would actually argue that “IQ” itself is a proxy for the ability to gather resources, so in a sense anything less than a perfect correlation between income and IQ test would be only be due to limitations of the IQ test.)

    Hence the correlation between IQ (at least of the men, at least historically speaking) and number of children in Mormondom.

    Historically this correlation would have been much stronger, for a couple of reasons:
    1) Greater commitment to the principle of having as many children as the husband could support and the wife could deal with, and
    2) Polygamy, where men who had the means to support multiple families (typically the high IQ and ambitious types) would have multiple wives, each with maximal children. The wives, supporting each other in childrearing, had a synergistic effect. I have not seen stats, but I would guess that the number of children per wife (at least, per wife who actually bore children) was likely HIGHER in polygamous families than in non-polygamous families.

    Nowadays I think the correlation between IQ and fertility in Momondom is fading. I think that many high IQ women have a hard time with what is often mind-numbing drudgery in raising kids (where I think that the burdens of motherhood are particularly intense for high IQ women), and with other options available, I think that, even within Mormondom, commitment to large families is fading (at least for high-IQ women). As high IQ men tend to marry high IQ women, this brings down the number of children to high IQ men as well.

    About fertility rates — I recently ran some stats from the US census on the fertility/mortality ratio for various demographic segments in the US not too long ago. For non-Hispanic whites in the US, the number was 1.01 (101 babies born per every 100 deaths). If I recall correctly, for Hispanic whites the number was 8.8! I kid you not. I was shocked. The implication of these numbers are worthy of discussion.

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    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Interesting that the original batch of Mormons were a much smarter than average group of people.
    Similar to the Puritans and Pilgrims who went to New England, or the Quakers who went to Pennsylvania.
    Or also the elite from China who fled to Taiwan after the Chinese Revolution.

    Note that New England still has many of the best schools in the country (although the Philadelphia area has some great colleges. I attended a Friendly college in the Philly area).

    Note also that many of the Americans who settled in the Upper Midwest came from New England.

    Hence Moynihan's Rule.
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  138. @Anonymous
    News for you, Steve. 'Mormons' are no longer exclusively white, north European white.
    Since a convenient revelation that preempted an Federal investigation, the Saints have been pan-racial since the mid 70s.
    A large portion of young Utahn Saints are non white. Hail from anywhere originally, wherever the missionary boys go - which as we all know is Main Street the World. Particularly active in black Africa right now.
    Large proportion of the Utahn working-class are Pacific Islander Saints.

    uh You’re exaggerating. “large proportion” is Bull shit.

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  139. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    I don’t know why there are folks–but especially on a blog like Steve’s–who make this sort of obviously ridiculous statement.

    The contrary is obviously the case: smarter folks have–generally–down through the ages, outbred dumber ones. This has to be the case. The fossil record shows a very clear record of ramp up of brain volume in the homo-genus over the last few million years right up to homo sapiens. And this can’t be “oh, then we had agricultural and civilization and got dumber”. No. Modern people from civilized societies are quite a bit smarter than the remnant hunter gather populations. Not just “hey they can read”, but trying to educate kids from those societies–ex. Australian Aboriginals–shows they are very stupid. Smartness has had an even higher premium since the dawn of civilization. And modern humans from more civilized societies–greater time depth in civilization–have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures.

    “Smarts” is not just a survival advantage it is clearly and obviously *the* human competitive advantage.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Have you ever tried educating one?

    Actually, flip that, in their natural environment, could you be as adaptative? as proficient? These have to be taken into context.

    I disagree with your premise, I'm more inclined to think that the modern world as we know it is due more to our ability to mass produce the fruits of smartness--think Borlaug's green rev-- than smarter people outbreeding dumber people, which as I've said strikes me as counter-intuitive.

    Although I've been recommended a Gregory Clark book.


    "And modern humans from more civilized societies–greater time depth in civilization–have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures."
     
    To clarify, you're saying that on average, a Chinese has a bigger brain than say an American?

    I doubt that, but even assuming the truth of your premise, that'd seem to square with my premise. The Anglo-tinged west kicked out ahead because it developed systems that didn't require geniuses in charge, let it mask its weaknesses as it were.
    , @guest
    The above poster is not thinking simply in terms of "smarter folks," as they put it, I don't think. Rather, based on invoking Keynes and Mill, I assume they're thinking of the great names in intellectual history. The Big Boys, who indeed have historically had trouble producing babies. At least in recent centuries.

    The list is long and well-known of great figures in science, art, philosophy, and so on who were effectively sterile. I don't need to elucidate.

    But these people were of course extreme outliers. Regular "smarter folks" have much more in common with retards than world-historical geniuses.
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  140. @Triumph104
    Bill Cosby isn't smart. He has a severe learning disability. He scored 500 out of 1600 on the SAT. (You earn 400 on the SAT simply by signing your name.) He went through the 10th grade three times before dropping out of high school and getting a correspondence GED.

    He managed to earn college degrees simply because he was given credit for his life's work. For his bachelor's degree he received course credits for his experience in the Navy. Cosby's doctorate is in education, just like half of all blacks with a doctorate. Cosby did his dissertation on the two children's shows he made -- Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids.

    It is too bad that Rita Moreno and Morgan Freeman didn't think to get doctorates for their work on The Electric Company.

    While you are pointing out that Cosby isn’t smart, I want to point out that Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids is one show, not two.

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  141. @Triumph104
    That sounds nice but isn't true.

    Utah leads the nation (top 10 state) in bankruptcy, affinity fraud, prescription drug abuse, and child abuse. Utah is the number one state in the nation for child sexual abuse.

    Mormons divorce at the same rate as the national average. If you include part-time work, Mormon women work outside the home at the same rate non-Mormons.

    Many, if not most, of the newer apartment complexes in the Salt Lake City area are reserved for low-income tenants. Because Mormons have their own welfare system, Utah does not lead the nation in food stamps. (Years ago, the US military was so embarrassed that so many service members were on food stamps that the military created its own food program to stop the bad publicity.)

    Nowadays, the Mormon families with the jaw-dropping number of kids are often led by a patriarch who is a successful professional, but that is not an accurate reflection of the average Mormon family that is struggling financially and psychologically.

    The number of nursing homes in and around Salt Lake City is staggering. Mormons who have raised numerous children are spending their last years in institutions just like non-Mormons.

    Why don’t the military members who can’t afford food eat in the mess halls? Sounds like they want to have their cake and eat it too, literally in this case.

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    • Replies: @gunner29

    Why don’t the military members who can’t afford food eat in the mess halls? Sounds like they want to have their cake and eat it too, literally in this case.
     
    The single guys were eating in the mess hall. It was the married guys that were on food stamps.

    Moffet Field just north of San Jose was the worst one in the Bay Area for food stamps. Even 35 years ago it was damn near impossible to live on Navy pay down there. I seem to remember it prompted Congress for the pay to vary according to local cost of living.

    You could do quite well down south, but would get killed if you were out on the left coast....
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  142. @Tiny Duck
    You can take your racism and shove it up your patoot

    Hockey fans "tip well" because they are overwhelmingly white and their privilege gives them more money and the means to not to have deal with racism and the harsh realities of life

    Ohs Tinys…..Hokey fans “tip well”….yeah…..so do Ledsnert…..he gib you teh “tip” and all teh rest O “litle Lebsnert” all da tyme.

    Lebsnerd “Here we’s goes agin” X

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  143. @John Mansfield
    I happen to be a Mormon with an engineering PhD and six children. The youngest is eight, and a couple of the older boys are missionaries right now. Three months ago my wife's upper back pain was diagnosed as metastatic renal cell carcinoma. For now she is improving significantly thanks to immunotherapy infusions that have only recently become available for her cancer. As a believer, I will also credit the prayers and fasting of a couple hundred people on her behalf.

    The point of interest to readers of this blog, though, is the sort of material support my family has received from the church in a time when my wife has been incapacitated. There have been meals brought in and women coming in to clean the house weekly. When I was spending a lot of time after work at the hospital with my wife, there were women spending hours in my home with my children. Mormons have a high-trust society going on where we know one another's children and are comfortable telling them to knock off doing something they shouldn't be doing. Also, through the 1970s, '80s, and '90s, church leaders explicitly taught that Mormons should stick to the single-income model with a wife at home who gives her attention and energy to her family, and not only her family but to the community, instead of to an employer. I live in a neighborhood that is 1.1% Mormon, and whenever I attend a school function some other LDS parent is there. One night in the previous fall it was a meeting for high school marching band. The count of band members is 69. Two of the five parents running things were my home teacher and his wife. With myself, a high councilman, and a Primary music leader also present that made for five known LDS adults. A month before that at a meeting to plan parents’ assignments for a middle school musical play, there were three LDS out of a dozen present. One of them was the director of the play, one was me, and the other was the wife of the neighboring ward’s bishop. At the show I spent a few minutes chatting with the choreographer, who I didn't know, and then we surprised each other when we met again both singing second tenor at a stake choir rehearsal. I can add to the tally of LDS in my area punching above their weight in youth matters the pleasure I had last year fall and spring at high school orchestra concerts watching my son and another member of his priests’ quorum flanking the stage as cello section leader and concertmaster.

    Does your faith allow you to oppose immigration?

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  144. @theMann
    Slightly off topic but since others are commenting on it -

    17 years experience of tipping jobs on weekends in Texas so I will break down the experience for everybody:


    tipping by fans:

    1. New Orleans Saints - just areal nice bunch of guys every which way.
    2. Dallas Stars fans - both of them, really.
    3. Baseball fans generally.
    4. Texas Tech.
    5. Spurs.
    6. UT Austin\ A&M .
    7. Cowboys - which also includes putting up with Cowboys fans.
    8. Cubs fans. I sincerely hope it is another 100 years before they see a WS again.

    tipping by sex\race\ethnicity

    1. Working class Guys, regardless of race.
    2. Working class women, again regardless...
    3. Wealthy White males.
    4. Wealthy other males.
    5. No such thing as wealthy females being good tippers.
    6. Public Officials of any sort - Cops, School teachers, any of them. Yea, they are just a treat walking in the door.
    7. Asians. sorry, but the truth is the truth.


    Seriously, if I had to face a weekend of Wealthy Asian cubs fans, I would just call in sick and be money ahead.

    For what it’s worth as far as I know there is no tipping in East Asia.

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  145. @mom
    Aspiring parents may find that comment discouraging.

    Educated, cosmopolitan whites don't have to have it so tough. There are still plenty of ways for whites to get ahead and afford a family in U.S. society. For instance -- join the military* and do 4 years out of high school. All your needs are paid for and you can save $30,000 - $90,000 over those 4 years. Yes, really -- I'm an accountant and veteran and ran the numbers for various scenarios. The 4 years don't have to be 'wasted' because college credits can be amassed via CLEP tests, which are free to active-duty servicemembers. Then, finish up college for free with the amazing G.I. Bill. That takes about 2-3 years.

    So 6 years out of high school you are 24 years old, have $30,000 - $90,000 in your bank account, no debt, and a college degree.

    When it's time to buy a house, the VA lets you buy one with no money down.

    Point 3) about minority births at 50% -- that's the average for the entire country. Go to an area of the country where that's not true. Housing prices will be lower. Be as 'cosmopolitan' as you want by forming your own circle of intellectual friends or whatnot.

    To be clear, I do *not* recommend staying in the military with a family. It's tough on families. Just do 4 years out of high school then GTFO.

    *Joining the military is a great way for females to avoid the hookup culture of majority-female college campuses. Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males, some of whom are high-quality types with honorable intentions.

    I tried Boy Scouts as a young teenager and disliked it so much it soured me to the idea of enlisting. Which is a shame because it’s a pretty incredible bargain and something I would have taken pride in.

    I think I stumbled into a decent plan B though. Community college and then state school allowed me to rack up credits while working, thus building some savings and avoiding debt.

    I was metropolis-bound due to job for my twenties, which put my wife and I in a similar bind to Doug’s – long commutes, small apartment, exorbitant housing prices. Still, by living modestly, we were able to have her stay home from work once we had our first kid. Then, using the savings we had scrounged together from our early married years, I was able to target a job on the fringe of the megalopolis and immediately buy a house out in the hinterlands.

    It’s doable.

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    • Replies: @mom
    I think that's fantastic. It *is* doable! Certainly there are depressing numbers in the larger, country-level numbers, but I believe there's still plenty of room to create one's own 'micro-climate' of prosperity and affordable family formation!

    Please look into the military for your children. It's probably not like the Boy Scouts. I don't know for sure. I mean, look into the Air Force, it's the service most like a comfy government job. *Most* jobs in the Air Force, anyway. Some Military Occupation Specialties in the Air Force are definitely strenuous and demanding, such as Pararescue.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    I salute you. I hope you and yours are indicative of a trend, and one with many participants.
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  146. @Bleuteaux
    No more Leonard Pitts?

    No more Leonard Pitts?

    Lenderb “Whta bein me….chopped liver” Pizxt

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  147. The fertility levels for urban white liberals are probably very similar to diaspora Jewish fertility levels. Low overall, with wealthier white liberals able to afford more kids than their low-income counterparts. In today’s FIRE economy, rich white women are actually having more kids than they were 20 years ago:

    https://qz.com/1125805/the-reason-the-richest-women-in-the-us-are-the-ones-having-the-most-kids/

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  148. @Tiny Duck
    You can take your racism and shove it up your patoot

    Hockey fans "tip well" because they are overwhelmingly white and their privilege gives them more money and the means to not to have deal with racism and the harsh realities of life

    What’s your excuse for Jews?

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  149. @European-American
    So it turns out it’s Idiocracy for blacks, but not so much for whites?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unoMMru4-c0

    in the absence of calorie/disease/cultural constraints fast breeders will overtake slow breeders.

    the calorie/disease constraints have been removed and the cultural constraints have been under attack by the media for decades so although black people succumbed first the same thing will eventually drown all peoples unless they actively prevent the cultural poisoning.

    mouse utopia

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  150. @Bill
    Good stuff. I think 3 is really interesting. Finding an overwhelmingly white school building the US is hard these days. It was not as hard in the 80s. It seems to me that the consequence of this is likely eventually to be whites abandoning the public schools. Back in the 60s and 70s, when the federal government was semi-serious about desegregation but before white flight could complete, a bazillion private schools appeared all over the South. I wonder if that is going to happen again, except everywhere.

    Just finished reading Real Education by Charles Murray and another education book by Diane Ravitch. My general takeaway is that peer and school quality are dramatically overrated in educational influence and that a lot of middle-class types are killing themselves financially for marginal at best educational advantages. Could the “good schools” mantra be more about status than actual education prospects?

    The caveat here is the non-academic component of schooling, i.e. peer morality, socialization, etc. Some might raise interracial violence as a major risk factor, but I’d wager that’s pretty insignificant for people shopping outside the absolute worst metro areas in the country.

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    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    'Good schools' mean 'away from blacks'.
    , @Buzz Mohawk
    Kudos to you for reading Real Education. Another book you should pick up is Bad Students, Not Bad Schools, by Robert Weissberg, whose articles are often published here.

    Weissberg's book title pretty much sums up all you need to know about what makes a school good or bad.

    Parents may not know it, but what they are really seeking is places to live where good students attend the schools. The parents who live there were good students themselves. They have stable families, steady jobs, and high intelligence. Children from those families behave better and study more, thus giving rise to good results in the schools.

    , @Nico
    I dare say that if more parents were willing to try their hands at home schooling, which both is cheaper than even Catholic parish-subventioned private schools AND less socially corrosive than even many metrically “good” POZed public schools, district choice might not be such a problem.
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  151. (This is probably a big issue in why African-Americans don’t make much progress.)

    Which is a shame really — because, well, ‘They’re good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like ‘em.’

    https://twitter.com/BasedMonitored/status/965614532394708992

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  152. @Anonymous
    Mormons aren't that numerous, and while their average IQ is probably a trifle higher than average, really far right edge people on the IQ Bell Curve tend to be skeptical of any established organized religion. If they are ethnically Jewish they still identify as Jews but if they are ethnically non-Jews they will often identify as atheist, agnostic, or by some other unrecognized term instead of saying Catholic, Mormon, etc. This is not dishonest, because Jewishism (the state of 'being a Jew' as opposed to the Jewish religious belief system, traditionally Judaism, although arguable more correctly Talmudism) is both a race and a religion. Arthur Miller was by his own admission an atheist, but he'd have belted you if you said he was not really a Jew.

    By contrast, I'd never call myself Catholic, because although I was baptized, confirmed, and made First Communion in the Roman Catholic Church, I damn sure don't believe in transsubstantiation, indulgences or the Assumption of Mary or the infallibility of Popes, and am not at all sure about a whole lot of other things.

    if they are ethnically non-Jews they will often identify as atheist, agnostic, or by some other unrecognized term instead of saying Catholic, Mormon, etc.

    People ask me what religion I am, and I tell them I went to a Presbyterian Sunday school but “it didn’t take.” They laugh and drop the subject.

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  153. @Corn
    “the smart, nerdy ones tended to go into religious orders and didn’t pass on their genes.”

    I’ve wondered before what the West would look like today if the Catholic Church hadn’t instituted the celibacy requirement.

    one of my recent-ish ancestors was a cop in a docks area during the 1930s and apart from his own family was rumored to have had dozens of kids with various women down the docks.

    i think Catholic priests probably had lots of kids.

    (not saying that as a bad thing btw – at least not from a eugenic point of view)

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  154. @Hark, hark...the snark
    I was born 70 yrs go in Utah. Mormon family. When I was 12, I heard the story of the golden plates in detail for the first time and decided then and there it was just hooey. I don’t call myself Mormon. I have many cousins who are highly successful in medicine, law, and engineering careers who also are active in the Mormon church. It’s always puzzled me how such very intelligent people can buy-in to that theology. I’ve decided that, deep down, none of them really believe it.

    It’s always puzzled me how such very intelligent people can buy-in to that theology.

    I used to think that but now I find it increasingly hard to understand how people could give up a massively adaptive cultural blueprint over theology.

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  155. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    Awhile back I dragged my wife to a food can drive in front of Staples for a Kings game (I wanted the free tickets that came with volunteer duty). A lady, who in my imagination was wearing a mink coat, came up to her in a huff and asked where the VIP entrance was.

    When my wife said she didn’t know, the lady muttered “f***ing useless” and stormed off.

    So not always low profile.

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  156. @The Millennial Falcon
    Just finished reading Real Education by Charles Murray and another education book by Diane Ravitch. My general takeaway is that peer and school quality are dramatically overrated in educational influence and that a lot of middle-class types are killing themselves financially for marginal at best educational advantages. Could the "good schools" mantra be more about status than actual education prospects?

    The caveat here is the non-academic component of schooling, i.e. peer morality, socialization, etc. Some might raise interracial violence as a major risk factor, but I'd wager that's pretty insignificant for people shopping outside the absolute worst metro areas in the country.

    ‘Good schools’ mean ‘away from blacks’.

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    • Replies: @Proton Gakhe

    ‘Good schools’ mean ‘away from blacks’.
     
    Good schools mean away from jocks of any color.
    , @The Millennial Falcon
    Not in the western half of the country, for the most part. The "bad" schools where I live are majority Hispanic. Middle-class white parents I know are just as particular about good schools, to the point of adding 40 minutes on to their commute and paying $100k+ extra for housing.
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  157. @Samuel Skinner
    I disagree. I think black fertility was eugenic after slavery until welfare in the 1960s; you didn't work, you didn't eat.

    yes – i think it was improving slowly (from a lower base maybe) but then got hit with “coming apart” sooner. you can see the same behaviors that plague the black underclass growing among the more recent white underclass.

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  158. @Doug
    Those are good points. Similar issues depressing fertility among educated, cosmopolitan whites:

    1) Two-income households. Having a baby with two working parents is really tough. I know this, because I'm going through it now. Even with a full-time nanny and flexible work schedules. Mom gets depressed that she doesn't see the baby more often, and anxious whether the nanny is taking care of the baby well enough. Dad has to take lots of the childcare on, and gets too burned out to give 100% at work.

    There's this tension where Mom wants to quit and be a stay-at-home mom. But most of her social circle either doesn't have kids, or has kids but some cushy job due to their parents. Stay-at-home moms generally get perceived as lazy, entitled, and uninteresting. Women are expected to have exciting and interesting careers. And stepping out of the workforce for a few years is basically a career death sentence in this day and age. This is particularly acute in the highest-IQ subgroups. Among my Ivy-classmates, I can't think of one who's a stay-at-home mom ten years out.

    2) Housing prices are very expensive compared to the past. This has largely been due to a 30 year bull super cycle in asset prices. Baby boomers have really benefited from having bought homes when cheap in the 1980s, and reaped hundreds of percent returns. You have 60 year old plumbers living in $5 million+ homes in Palo Alto. They have no reason to move, because the home is paid off and property taxes in CA are basically zero.

    But that drives up the cost for millennial looking to buy their first home. They didn't participate in this massive creation of wealth. And likely they never will, because interest rates and property taxes can only go up from here. On top of all that you have boomer run local governments, that tightly constrain supply by putting land use restrictions in virtually every good job market. That hugely benefits 50+ year old homeowners, but screws millennials looking for affordable family formation.

    3) For better or worse, white people really don't want their kids going to NAM-majority schools. NAMs make up over 50% of new births now. That means that living in the median school district is no longer an option. In 1980, most school districts were good enough. In 2017, you have to live at the upper end of the housing market to provide an acceptable school for your kid. Combined with the inflated price of housing, this really drives the screws in to new young parents.

    The solution to this is to adapt a social system sort of like the one in the Soviet Union: grandma lives nearby and takes care of the kids in her retirement while the parents are working.

    If a family wants a comfortable lifestyle, having a SAHM is a mistake unless the husband is making over 100k. And this is in flyover country. Would take a lot more in the coastal cities.

    Most SAHMs I know are extremely lazy and are only staying at home because they have NEVER been able to hold down a steady job in the first place. They never really were part of the workforce to begin with and are often college drop outs (if they attended). Of course things were different a few decades ago (I’m a millennial in my late 20s so that colors my perspective), it was more a respectable middle class thing then.

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  159. @mom
    Aspiring parents may find that comment discouraging.

    Educated, cosmopolitan whites don't have to have it so tough. There are still plenty of ways for whites to get ahead and afford a family in U.S. society. For instance -- join the military* and do 4 years out of high school. All your needs are paid for and you can save $30,000 - $90,000 over those 4 years. Yes, really -- I'm an accountant and veteran and ran the numbers for various scenarios. The 4 years don't have to be 'wasted' because college credits can be amassed via CLEP tests, which are free to active-duty servicemembers. Then, finish up college for free with the amazing G.I. Bill. That takes about 2-3 years.

    So 6 years out of high school you are 24 years old, have $30,000 - $90,000 in your bank account, no debt, and a college degree.

    When it's time to buy a house, the VA lets you buy one with no money down.

    Point 3) about minority births at 50% -- that's the average for the entire country. Go to an area of the country where that's not true. Housing prices will be lower. Be as 'cosmopolitan' as you want by forming your own circle of intellectual friends or whatnot.

    To be clear, I do *not* recommend staying in the military with a family. It's tough on families. Just do 4 years out of high school then GTFO.

    *Joining the military is a great way for females to avoid the hookup culture of majority-female college campuses. Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males, some of whom are high-quality types with honorable intentions.

    Uhh, women in the military have way more issues with hook-up culture and unwanted attention than run of the mill college women. In fact it was this reputation that drove me away from the military in the first place even though I was interested and I have the right personality type/fitness level for it. It’s really only in the sororities (at Big 10, SEC type flagship public U’s) where hookup culture for college girls is a problem.

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    • Replies: @mom
    What do you mean? There are definitely skanky females in the armed services but each female can choose how she wants to behave. I hope you aren't choosing debt over the military based on a false perception. In the college environment men tend not to feel required to offer much commitment in exchange for sex. That's because the lopsided sex ratio means more women are competing for fewer men. Notice I said 'tend to' -- there are always individual exceptions. In the military, due to the lopsided sex ratio in women's favor, men will tend to offer more. The same caveat as always applies, of course -- that men will do precisely what women will let them get away with.
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  160. @Anonymous
    News for you, Steve. 'Mormons' are no longer exclusively white, north European white.
    Since a convenient revelation that preempted an Federal investigation, the Saints have been pan-racial since the mid 70s.
    A large portion of young Utahn Saints are non white. Hail from anywhere originally, wherever the missionary boys go - which as we all know is Main Street the World. Particularly active in black Africa right now.
    Large proportion of the Utahn working-class are Pacific Islander Saints.

    The Mormon sample in the GSS is 89% non-Hispanic white.

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  161. if regression to the mean is a thing and high IQ people have low fertility then perhaps focusing on affordable family formation for the 100-115 cohort would be the most productive strategy.

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  162. In South Park they have Stan’s dad befriend a Mormon family, he really loves their way of life and thinks of converting, but then he learns about Mormon theology. Devastated he goes to being an average American slob.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Mormons

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  163. @eD
    " The New Testament makes it clear that if you don’t behave yourself, do your fair share of work and make the right choices you’re out of the community."

    Sort of OT, but I actually know the New Testament quite well and I don't remember running across this bit, in either the Gospels or the Epistles, even the more spurious ones. What is the passage that says this?

    2 Thessalonians 3:10

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  164. @Anon
    I remember them being fair (20-%) but demanding (all the way to trying to dictate music levels) get a four top of jewish women though, then you have trouble. They don't care how busy you are, they want be tended to.

    Jackie Mason used to do a very funny (because true) shtick about Jewish customers in a restaurant vs. WASP. The WASP customers just accept whatever they get. The Jewish customers complain constantly – their table is too close to the door, it’s too close to the kitchen, it’s too hot in the restaurant, it’s too cold, the food is too salty, it’s not salty enough, etc.,etc.

    But as far as tipping, modern Jews are, in my experience, pretty good tippers, the “cheap” stereotype notwithstanding. They are not going to do the “Canadian” thing and leave little or no tip unless they are deeply aggrieved ( far beyond just the usual ritual kvetching) nor are they going to go wild and start drunkenly giving out $100 bills, but they are going to tip at the upper end of the normal range.

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    • Replies: @Jefferson
    Johnny Depp took a DNA test and found out he has 1% Sub Saharan African ancestry, which is extremely minuscule when you factor in that even the average Mexican has more Sub Saharan African ancestry than that at 4%.

    Anyways Johnny Depp always makes the list of most generous celebrity tippers in Hollywood. I guess that 1% African DNA was not enough to turn into him into a cheapskate when it comes to tipping, lol.

    , @Brutusale
    You tip for service. If you demand more service, you should tip more.

    FWIW, the server has nothing to do with the taste of the food, and to deduct from the tip is just plain wrong. Call it what it is, a blatant attempt to get something knocked off the bill.

    I joke with my girlfriend that she has an admixture of Jewish blood, as her restaurant behaviors can be a bit Semitic. Coffee's cold, I don't like this table, dressing/sauce/whatever on the side, etc.

    And I'm the embarrassed schmuck leaving the 25%!

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  165. @The Millennial Falcon
    Just finished reading Real Education by Charles Murray and another education book by Diane Ravitch. My general takeaway is that peer and school quality are dramatically overrated in educational influence and that a lot of middle-class types are killing themselves financially for marginal at best educational advantages. Could the "good schools" mantra be more about status than actual education prospects?

    The caveat here is the non-academic component of schooling, i.e. peer morality, socialization, etc. Some might raise interracial violence as a major risk factor, but I'd wager that's pretty insignificant for people shopping outside the absolute worst metro areas in the country.

    Kudos to you for reading Real Education. Another book you should pick up is Bad Students, Not Bad Schools, by Robert Weissberg, whose articles are often published here.

    Weissberg’s book title pretty much sums up all you need to know about what makes a school good or bad.

    Parents may not know it, but what they are really seeking is places to live where good students attend the schools. The parents who live there were good students themselves. They have stable families, steady jobs, and high intelligence. Children from those families behave better and study more, thus giving rise to good results in the schools.

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    • Replies: @The Millennial Falcon
    Thanks! I'll check it out. On an education book binge as I prepare to make the jump to high school teaching.

    Any other good education books the commentariat here can recommend? So far I've just been working the library shelf.
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  166. @Samuel Skinner
    'Good schools' mean 'away from blacks'.

    ‘Good schools’ mean ‘away from blacks’.

    Good schools mean away from jocks of any color.

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  167. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    By that logic, our primate ancestors would have had higher IQs than contemporary humans.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Why argue what cannot be proven. Do you know of any studies showing divergences between homo Sapiens Sapiens now and those say 200k years ago?
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  168. @Dr. Mormon
    Sorry Bill. Not quite right. The 10% tithing does not go towards welfare at all.
    The welfare program comes from a system we have where we are expected to fast for two meals a month, and pool that money to help the poor. Unlike taxes, we literally sacrifice our meals to feed others. The recipients of this assistance know that they are quite literally having others go hungry to help them out. While there are still abusers and freeloaders, of course, I think this cuts down substantially on the sense of entitlement I often see in tax-based government welfare programs.

    Don't get me wrong though -- there is no public shaming or the like in the program. The congregation is unaware of who is receiving the funds, aside from a couple of trusted volunteers that are in the know in administrating the funds (which are fully audited as well, of course, to prevent abuses).

    The program works quite well, and my son once did an analysis of data on hunger in the US that indicated that if this "skip two meals once a month to help others" program were deployed nationally, it could end hunger in the US.

    Thanks for the info. So there’s actually a separate “tax” beyond the 10% tithing, which comes out to roughly what? I know Mormons know how to eat on the cheap (so do I; I have been known to visit the bulk aisles at Winco from time to time), so the cost of two meals could vary considerably.

    Also, what about the hard cases? Say you have someone who just sleeps in until noon every day, spends the rest on social media and blows her child support check on frivolous entertainment and sexy clothes, yet still has an pharaonic sense of entitlement. This is actually a pretty common profile, BTW. How do you deal with her?

    As to your son’s idea, I’m sure he’s correct. Skipping two meals a month would more than eliminate hunger in the US. However, it would have another less desirable consequence: it would exacerbate the class difference in obesity rates by making the middle class and above thinner while making the underclass even fatter.

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    • Replies: @Frednik
    Tithing is not used for welfare. Welfare expenses are funded from fast offerings, which are voluntary donations of the money saved (and often more) from our monthly 24-hour fast.

    As to how much, from my years in a bishopric, I would say the average contribution is well above the cost of the meals saved. Money not used in the congregation gets moved up the chain and redistributed to poor congregations.
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  169. @Hark, hark...the snark
    I was born 70 yrs go in Utah. Mormon family. When I was 12, I heard the story of the golden plates in detail for the first time and decided then and there it was just hooey. I don’t call myself Mormon. I have many cousins who are highly successful in medicine, law, and engineering careers who also are active in the Mormon church. It’s always puzzled me how such very intelligent people can buy-in to that theology. I’ve decided that, deep down, none of them really believe it.

    Generally speaking the Orthodox Jewish POV on this is that it’s between you and the man upstairs whether you believe this stuff or not. All that they ask is that, in your actions, you observe all of the commandments and then you are a member of the community in good standing. Owning your head and demanding that you LOVE big brother with all your heart is totalitarian. What is in your head and heart is a private matter. Others can only judge you buy your deeds and can never really know your thoughts anyway. Those who proclaim their thoughts the loudest are the ones who are probably lying anyway. And what good are pure thoughts if they are not accompanied by good acts?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Generally speaking the Orthodox Jewish POV on this is that it’s between you and the man upstairs whether you believe this stuff or not.

    What is there to believe in, in Orthodox Judaism?
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  170. @Dr Mormon
    How very interesting!

    I think it is because often Mormons have as many children as they can afford to raise, and there is a known correlation between income and IQ. (Some would actually argue that "IQ" itself is a proxy for the ability to gather resources, so in a sense anything less than a perfect correlation between income and IQ test would be only be due to limitations of the IQ test.)

    Hence the correlation between IQ (at least of the men, at least historically speaking) and number of children in Mormondom.

    Historically this correlation would have been much stronger, for a couple of reasons:
    1) Greater commitment to the principle of having as many children as the husband could support and the wife could deal with, and
    2) Polygamy, where men who had the means to support multiple families (typically the high IQ and ambitious types) would have multiple wives, each with maximal children. The wives, supporting each other in childrearing, had a synergistic effect. I have not seen stats, but I would guess that the number of children per wife (at least, per wife who actually bore children) was likely HIGHER in polygamous families than in non-polygamous families.

    Nowadays I think the correlation between IQ and fertility in Momondom is fading. I think that many high IQ women have a hard time with what is often mind-numbing drudgery in raising kids (where I think that the burdens of motherhood are particularly intense for high IQ women), and with other options available, I think that, even within Mormondom, commitment to large families is fading (at least for high-IQ women). As high IQ men tend to marry high IQ women, this brings down the number of children to high IQ men as well.

    About fertility rates -- I recently ran some stats from the US census on the fertility/mortality ratio for various demographic segments in the US not too long ago. For non-Hispanic whites in the US, the number was 1.01 (101 babies born per every 100 deaths). If I recall correctly, for Hispanic whites the number was 8.8! I kid you not. I was shocked. The implication of these numbers are worthy of discussion.

    Interesting that the original batch of Mormons were a much smarter than average group of people.
    Similar to the Puritans and Pilgrims who went to New England, or the Quakers who went to Pennsylvania.
    Or also the elite from China who fled to Taiwan after the Chinese Revolution.

    Note that New England still has many of the best schools in the country (although the Philadelphia area has some great colleges. I attended a Friendly college in the Philly area).

    Note also that many of the Americans who settled in the Upper Midwest came from New England.

    Hence Moynihan’s Rule.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    It's hard to reconcile the idea that the 1st Mormons were smarter than average when they all fell for Joseph Smith who was (no disrespect intended to our Mormon friends) a sociopath, a con man and a sexual predator along the lines of Jim Jones. Smith's part of upstate NY was called the "Burned Over District" because it was periodically overtaken by waves of evangelical fervor. Now high intelligence and the ability to believe in miraculous religious narratives of their own religion (in people who have no problem seeing the obvious falsity of say the Greek or Roman or Viking gods) are not mutually exclusive, but you do have to wonder how it is so possible to compartmentalize your mind - one part possessed with scientific skepticism and the other accepting of faith without meaningful proof (and the affidavits in the front of the book of Mormon don't count). This applies to all religions but especially to LDS because its founding events are not lost in the mists of history.
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  171. @Samuel Skinner
    'Good schools' mean 'away from blacks'.

    Not in the western half of the country, for the most part. The “bad” schools where I live are majority Hispanic. Middle-class white parents I know are just as particular about good schools, to the point of adding 40 minutes on to their commute and paying $100k+ extra for housing.

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    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    You are being too literal. He meant NAM's.
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  172. @Buzz Mohawk
    Kudos to you for reading Real Education. Another book you should pick up is Bad Students, Not Bad Schools, by Robert Weissberg, whose articles are often published here.

    Weissberg's book title pretty much sums up all you need to know about what makes a school good or bad.

    Parents may not know it, but what they are really seeking is places to live where good students attend the schools. The parents who live there were good students themselves. They have stable families, steady jobs, and high intelligence. Children from those families behave better and study more, thus giving rise to good results in the schools.

    Thanks! I’ll check it out. On an education book binge as I prepare to make the jump to high school teaching.

    Any other good education books the commentariat here can recommend? So far I’ve just been working the library shelf.

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  173. So, what is it about Canadians and tips?

    For a previous job, I had to travel to Europe at times. I learned something about European tipping customs.

    Generally, in most Euro zone countries, the waiters are paid much better than in the US, and tipping is not as big a deal. If the service is good, throw in a few Euros, more if it is someplace expensive.

    Tipping in the UK is more like tipping in the US was a generation or so ago. In the old days, wages were lower for tipped employees, but not as low (adjusted for inflation) as they are now. There was once a time when 10% was considered a decent tip.

    Last time I was in the UK, a 10% tip was still considered to be a decent tip. Things may or may not have changed.

    Madison, Wisconsin, is predominately German. I have heard that many of the local waiters and cab drivers truly hate German customers, because they tend to tip like they were in Germany.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Generally, in most Euro zone countries, the waiters are paid much better than in the US, and tipping is not as big a deal. If the service is good, throw in a few Euros, more if it is someplace expensive.
     
    Tipping is a bizarre and humiliating practice. Just pay the damned waiters a decent wage.
    , @Twinkie

    Generally, in most Euro zone countries, the waiters are paid much better than in the US, and tipping is not as big a deal. If the service is good, throw in a few Euros
     
    Trinkgeld - literally, drink money in German.
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  174. @Dr. Mormon
    Sorry Bill. Not quite right. The 10% tithing does not go towards welfare at all.
    The welfare program comes from a system we have where we are expected to fast for two meals a month, and pool that money to help the poor. Unlike taxes, we literally sacrifice our meals to feed others. The recipients of this assistance know that they are quite literally having others go hungry to help them out. While there are still abusers and freeloaders, of course, I think this cuts down substantially on the sense of entitlement I often see in tax-based government welfare programs.

    Don't get me wrong though -- there is no public shaming or the like in the program. The congregation is unaware of who is receiving the funds, aside from a couple of trusted volunteers that are in the know in administrating the funds (which are fully audited as well, of course, to prevent abuses).

    The program works quite well, and my son once did an analysis of data on hunger in the US that indicated that if this "skip two meals once a month to help others" program were deployed nationally, it could end hunger in the US.

    I’m sorry but I don’t believe that, after all the US government spends on food assistance, that hunger in the US actually exists except among people who must be so highly dysfunctional that they can’t even work the welfare system. The ghettos of the US are filled with the fattest looking “hungry” people that have ever existed in all of history. If you want to see what actual hungry people look like, visit Venezuela nowadays or a slum in India or some other places in the turd world and you’ll see guys with their rib cages showing and legs like toothpicks. Or pictures of the American POWs that were held by Japan in WWII. THAT’s what hungry people look like. I have never seen anyone who looks like that in the US, not once. Runway models don’t count.

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    • Agree: Kylie
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The ghettos of the US are filled with the fattest looking “hungry” people that have ever existed in all of history.
     
    Not anymore. Mexico's barrios have taken the crown.

    If you want to see what actual hungry people look like, visit Venezuela nowadays...

    Runway models don’t count.
     

    Venezuela is nothing but "runway models":

    http://www.vdare.com/posts/alicia-machado-says-she-wont-discuss-the-trump-fat-shaming-any-more-so-lets-talk-about-the-white-privilege-of-latin-beauty-queens

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  175. There’s a certain clannishness to Mormons that really doesn’t reflect well in sabremetric style analysis. Don’t get me wrong, I prefer living in the Mormon community I’m in, but there is definitely a sense that something isn’t a problem unless the Bishop decides its a problem.

    Transients, for instance, build up with local LE turning a blind eye until one harasses a bishop’s wife or some church leader’s niece sees one crapping in the bushes of the school, then its onto the vans you go, virtue signalling is over for a bit.

    Same with fedgov work. Yeah, model employees but when one steps on his crank in a stupendous fashion and should probably be terminated he gets a stern lecture from some GS15 based off the fact he’s married to a girl who’s the descendant of the 2nd wife of one of their prophets.

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  176. @BB753
    "Bottom line: we’re growing a population of even dumber blacks."

    I'm afraid that's been going on since 1619. BTW, will there be a celebration next year to conmemorate (or mourn, or both) the first African slaves brought to the then Colonies?

    BTW, will there be a celebration next year to conmemorate (or mourn, or both) the first African slaves brought to the then Colonies?

    A giant papal-style Year of Mourning could be the most effective “white nationalist” strategy for 2019.

    “We could have been a warm Canada!”

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    • LOL: BB753
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  177. @Jack D
    I'm sorry but I don't believe that, after all the US government spends on food assistance, that hunger in the US actually exists except among people who must be so highly dysfunctional that they can't even work the welfare system. The ghettos of the US are filled with the fattest looking "hungry" people that have ever existed in all of history. If you want to see what actual hungry people look like, visit Venezuela nowadays or a slum in India or some other places in the turd world and you'll see guys with their rib cages showing and legs like toothpicks. Or pictures of the American POWs that were held by Japan in WWII. THAT's what hungry people look like. I have never seen anyone who looks like that in the US, not once. Runway models don't count.

    The ghettos of the US are filled with the fattest looking “hungry” people that have ever existed in all of history.

    Not anymore. Mexico’s barrios have taken the crown.

    If you want to see what actual hungry people look like, visit Venezuela nowadays…

    Runway models don’t count.

    Venezuela is nothing but “runway models”:

    http://www.vdare.com/posts/alicia-machado-says-she-wont-discuss-the-trump-fat-shaming-any-more-so-lets-talk-about-the-white-privilege-of-latin-beauty-queens

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  178. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/TIME/status/965467758870847488

    A “banned substance” for curling? Isn’t that like a banned substance for hopscotch or checkers or bocce ball? What on earth would EPO or steroids do for a curler?

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Haven't you heard? Evil Russians are the only athletes that dope, all Evil Russian athletes dope equally under direct prescriptions from the Kremlin, and there's absolutely nothing political about any of this.
    (If it was up to me I would have withdrawn all Russian athletes from all competitions as soon as they started playing this game.)
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  179. Eliminate world hunger – eat a communist.

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  180. @L Woods

    Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males
     
    Only by fools who don't realize that there are normal women lacking the cosmically-inflated egos of military women outside the gate. Which is to say, yes, quite a few of them.

    I was referring to the lopsided sex ratio being beneficial for the women, not the men. For this reason a man should most definitely do the 4 years, GTFO, and be big man on campus as an older man among the female undergrads. Post-9/11 GI Bill currently pays over $3K month, tax-free, to be a college student in NYC, over and above the fact that it pays tuition. So yeah it may be 4 years of purgatory among the ego-inflated military gals, but there’s a payoff.

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  181. @S. Anonyia
    Uhh, women in the military have way more issues with hook-up culture and unwanted attention than run of the mill college women. In fact it was this reputation that drove me away from the military in the first place even though I was interested and I have the right personality type/fitness level for it. It's really only in the sororities (at Big 10, SEC type flagship public U's) where hookup culture for college girls is a problem.

    What do you mean? There are definitely skanky females in the armed services but each female can choose how she wants to behave. I hope you aren’t choosing debt over the military based on a false perception. In the college environment men tend not to feel required to offer much commitment in exchange for sex. That’s because the lopsided sex ratio means more women are competing for fewer men. Notice I said ‘tend to’ — there are always individual exceptions. In the military, due to the lopsided sex ratio in women’s favor, men will tend to offer more. The same caveat as always applies, of course — that men will do precisely what women will let them get away with.

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  182. @biz
    There are a few (e.g. Kip Thorne is of Mormon background) but the pressure to get married and settle down early and support a family prevents most from reaching their full potential in science etc. Also spending one's best years in Tonga on a mission doesn't help.

    Also spending one’s best years in Tonga on a mission doesn’t help.

    Then there’s Mitt Romney, who reportedly did his mission in France. Imagine trying to convert the citizens of the world’s leading wine-producing nation to a teetotal religion. It also can’t help that Frenchmen enthusiastically smoke their Gauloises and love their strong black coffee, while Mormonism forbids both tobacco and any caffeinated beverage to its votaries.

    I wonder how effective Mormon “missionaries” are in terms of winning converts, or whether their church really cares. Might it be that a young Mormon’s mission is viewed more as a part of his education than as a serious effort to augment the numbers of the faithful – rather like the British custom of taking “gap year” between completing a public school education and matriculating at Oxford or Cambridge?

    Bishop Wilberforce’s rhyme went -

    “If I were a cassowary
    On the plains of Timbuctoo,
    I’d surely eat a missionary,
    Cassock, bands, and hymn book too!”

    It seems to me that serious missionaries of any faith ought to be sent to places where they have the opportunity to encounter cassowaries.

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  183. @The Millennial Falcon
    I tried Boy Scouts as a young teenager and disliked it so much it soured me to the idea of enlisting. Which is a shame because it's a pretty incredible bargain and something I would have taken pride in.

    I think I stumbled into a decent plan B though. Community college and then state school allowed me to rack up credits while working, thus building some savings and avoiding debt.

    I was metropolis-bound due to job for my twenties, which put my wife and I in a similar bind to Doug's - long commutes, small apartment, exorbitant housing prices. Still, by living modestly, we were able to have her stay home from work once we had our first kid. Then, using the savings we had scrounged together from our early married years, I was able to target a job on the fringe of the megalopolis and immediately buy a house out in the hinterlands.

    It's doable.

    I think that’s fantastic. It *is* doable! Certainly there are depressing numbers in the larger, country-level numbers, but I believe there’s still plenty of room to create one’s own ‘micro-climate’ of prosperity and affordable family formation!

    Please look into the military for your children. It’s probably not like the Boy Scouts. I don’t know for sure. I mean, look into the Air Force, it’s the service most like a comfy government job. *Most* jobs in the Air Force, anyway. Some Military Occupation Specialties in the Air Force are definitely strenuous and demanding, such as Pararescue.

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  184. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    I work in the Twin Cities in the food service industry. Female hockey game goers are the best looking and best dressed. Seems like a lot of people at NHL events are on dates.

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    • Replies: @Brutusale
    The Boston Bruins riffed on that with a very funny commercial involving their most hated rival.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHQaJW7QHoQ
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  185. “If I were a cassowary
    On the plains of Timbuctoo,
    I’d surely eat a missionary,
    Cassock, bands, and hymn book too!”

    Cassowaries are vicious but not carnivorous. They won’t eat missionaries. Imagine much smaller Cape Buffalo with feathers.

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  186. @Almost Missouri
    John Derbyshire ten years ago:

    "Hispanics are assimilating all right, but to urban-ghetto norms"

    https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/vital-statistics-john-derbyshire/

    Derbyshire’s Chinese wife and daughter voted for Obama. There is something they like about blacks.

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  187. “smarter Jews…” Israeli Jewish IQ is 93 and dropping. Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians. The little IQ they had is gone (and since there never were that many of them, it didn’t matter).

    Actor (((Morgan Spector))) married the black actress Rebecca Hall (black American mother, white English father). They are expecting their first child.

    The black Jewess Maya Rudolph has a white gentile partner, but the kids will be classified as black Jews.

    “Smarter Jews” always was an pxymoron.

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    • Replies: @notanon

    Jews have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians.
     
    no they don't
    , @Ed
    Get help.
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  188. @Nigerian Nationalist
    "The surname survives in Switzerland, with ten entries in the white pages for the city of Basel as of 2018"

    Since they're no longer prominent, fair to say they regressed.

    Inbreeding aside, I was thinking more the Ottoman Sultans and Chinese Emperors. Yet by all account, sons, grandsons at best were always inferior to the prominent Pere.

    So regression to the means disproves all of HBD, and there’s no such thing as history. Stay tuned for Newton’s laws validating the literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. This is like if I followed you around a supermarket and claimed that your buying vegetables proves you eat nothing but junk food. Art must consider this blindingly ignorant trolling to be beneath him.

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Just out of curiosity, did you skip comprehension classes? Because I clearly state my own ignorance of the issue and asked for an explanation, which many here gave.

    I'd understand curiosity being a foreign concept to you though, a function of your time and place.
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  189. @Coag
    Before the cornucopia of modern agriculture and medicine, higher IQ folks always outbred the lower IQ. The epochally brilliant hyper-intellectuals of history like Mill or Keynes were reproductively unrepresentative of their cognitive class. For these uniquely otherworldly thinkers, having too many kids would have prevented them from concentrating their energies and achieving what they did, after all. But there were numerous, nameless, high IQ individuals who never made an immortal name for themselves as philosophers but succeeded in society and were able to sustain large families and ever-ready to give birth to the lineage of the next Newton (coming from rich yeomen) or Einstein (from a line of merchants).

    Historically the odds ratio of winning a science Nobel if you have a close relative who also won a Nobel is much higher than if you don’t have a Nobel winning relative.

    Dynasties are generally successful. In Europe the major dynasties lasted a millennium or more, and were in the end only swept away by Hegelian-scale world-historical cataclysms that the efforts of hundreds of millions of both low- and high-IQ individuals working collectively could not resist.

    Newton was famously childless as was Pitt the younger. Ben Franklin, just two. Then don’t get me started on the Romans, imagine Caesar dying with just two children. Might be a case of my memory being selective to buttress a point I’m already leaning towards, but it strikes me that the historically smart people were less fecund. Voltaire? Spinoza?

    Regarding dynasties, I meant less in terms of survival–which was more a matter of prestige– than the noted abilities of the children. Compare say the actions and shrewdness of the highly capable Maria Theresa to the ditzy Marie Antoinette or Catherine the Great to Paul…

    Consider Genghis Khan, greatest conqueror in human history, in three generations, kids piss it all away. I dunno…

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    • Replies: @J.Ross

    Consider Genghis Khan, greatest conqueror in human history, in three generations, kids piss it all away.
     
    The thing to do here would be to actually study the history because that would explain everything. The Mongols were centuries ahead of their competitors in military science and stone age primitive in politics. What happened to them was roughly similar to what happened to the heirs of Alexander, not interested in a single coherent empire, doing fine with local administrative districts that became their own thing.
    , @Coag
    Re-read my post—all your concerns are already addressed. These historically famous people come from fecund, reproductively successful high IQ lineages, while they themselves, as individuals, typically gave up childrearing to pursue glorious achievements. Einstein and Newton are once in an epoch geniuses. But the more common high IQ individual throughout history is not an Einstein or a Newton, but a prosperous yeoman or rich merchant with numerous children, and only these high IQ families can produce an Einstein or a Newton. The low IQ lumpenproletariat have historically been unable to outbreed the high IQ families, and die off every generation even as their ranks are replenished with the downwardly mobile. Like I said, this picture changed with the advent of modern medicine and agriculture.

    As far as Genghis Khan is concerned, his kids established political dominions that lasted centuries and sui generis nations and cultures that endure to this day. His works are certainly not fleeting.
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  190. @Big Bill
    A "banned substance" for curling? Isn't that like a banned substance for hopscotch or checkers or bocce ball? What on earth would EPO or steroids do for a curler?

    Haven’t you heard? Evil Russians are the only athletes that dope, all Evil Russian athletes dope equally under direct prescriptions from the Kremlin, and there’s absolutely nothing political about any of this.
    (If it was up to me I would have withdrawn all Russian athletes from all competitions as soon as they started playing this game.)

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  191. @Flip
    Do they have to name the fathers who then have to pay child support?

    Do they have to name the fathers who then have to pay child support?

    If they get public welfare they do. First thang they ask the womyn; who’s Daddy? Then the welfare agency goes after them hammer and tongs to get the money!

    It was part of the Welfare Reform BJ Clinton signed in ’96. The republicans insisted they collect the cash or there would be consequences…..

    Kali was one of the worst abusing the guys. After they had a name, but no address, they would look in the DMV drivers license database and send the notice to the closest guy with that name. He had 30 days to respond and if he didn’t, the welfare minions would get a default judgement and he was stuck with child support until the kid was 18!

    It was somewhere around $50K 15 years ago to get a lawyer to fight it. Probably double that today.

    Most of the underclass guys just disappeared and went underground. If you had some income, pay the state or a lawyer….

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  192. @Bill
    Good stuff. I think 3 is really interesting. Finding an overwhelmingly white school building the US is hard these days. It was not as hard in the 80s. It seems to me that the consequence of this is likely eventually to be whites abandoning the public schools. Back in the 60s and 70s, when the federal government was semi-serious about desegregation but before white flight could complete, a bazillion private schools appeared all over the South. I wonder if that is going to happen again, except everywhere.

    There are still plenty of overwhelmingly white school districts in the US. You just have to be willing to live in a rural area. Personally I went to school in a little town in the midwest that had 2000 residents. The school only had around 50 kids per grade from K through 12.

    The downside is that employment opportunities are not good today in rural areas. So most people would not move there even though the cost of housing is dirt cheap.

    I am glad for having gone to school there even though I have long since moved to a larger urban area. I have never since felt the closeness and community that I experienced in that town. It was a great place to grow up.

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  193. Recently played golf with a guy who told me his sister discussed tipping with Julius Erving while working at a Reno-area casino in 1983, when the Sixers were in town for an exhibition. She asked him why, given all their drinks were comped, the ballers were leaving no tips. Erving replied, “because we’re too good for that.”

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  194. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Pre-Nobel you had the Darwin-Wedgewood-Galton cluster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood_family

    The family contained at least ten Fellows of the Royal Society and several artists and poets (including the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams).

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    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    Proof of smartness or merely familial connections? Like military families. The Hohenzollerns, for example, had a ton of Generals, only three or four by my reckoning were any good.
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  195. @Jack Hanson
    You should encourage your wife to be a stay at home mom and move Heaven and earth to make it happen.

    Agree.

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  196. @Jack D
    Jackie Mason used to do a very funny (because true) shtick about Jewish customers in a restaurant vs. WASP. The WASP customers just accept whatever they get. The Jewish customers complain constantly - their table is too close to the door, it's too close to the kitchen, it's too hot in the restaurant, it's too cold, the food is too salty, it's not salty enough, etc.,etc.

    But as far as tipping, modern Jews are, in my experience, pretty good tippers, the "cheap" stereotype notwithstanding. They are not going to do the "Canadian" thing and leave little or no tip unless they are deeply aggrieved ( far beyond just the usual ritual kvetching) nor are they going to go wild and start drunkenly giving out $100 bills, but they are going to tip at the upper end of the normal range.

    Johnny Depp took a DNA test and found out he has 1% Sub Saharan African ancestry, which is extremely minuscule when you factor in that even the average Mexican has more Sub Saharan African ancestry than that at 4%.

    Anyways Johnny Depp always makes the list of most generous celebrity tippers in Hollywood. I guess that 1% African DNA was not enough to turn into him into a cheapskate when it comes to tipping, lol.

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    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    Inside The Shady World Of DNA Testing Companies
    ...They Will Screw With Racists
    ...
    Morgan and his colleagues were caught between a rock and a really-want-to-mess-with-racists place. It would've been fun to throw a "10 percent West African" in there, but then they might have a pissed-off, dangerous person at their office, waving a gun. "Since we couldn't do anything to the results (and we wanted to), what we did was add '< 1 percent' to each African category of ethnicity. That way we weren't lying, and they would both be wondering how much under a percentage point was.
    ...
    Maybe they weren't 100 percent Caucasian. I mean, they were, according to the results, but this way it leaves it open, and they'll always be wondering."

    Bravo. Bravissimo!

     

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  197. @Jack Hanson
    Because IQ can help one avoid bad problems, it doesn't negate them. Nobel prizes have a quantitative "right place right time" factor baked into them.

    Now explain why blacks are unable to maintain a first world civilization without running to social science voodoo and magic soil theory. Ill wait.

    Because you’re being selective with your data sources.

    Tis a fact that Europeans and North Americans are much, much, much x10 richer than everybody else. That correlates with your “First World Civilisation”. For one, many “Black countries” due to their poverty are unable to provide universal education, a 19th-century invention, which in combination with the Industrial and Scientific revolution brought about “The First World”.

    However, within your cultures are pockets of what for lack of a better term we can “uncivilisation”: Chavs, Rednecks, Appalachians, Race war enthusiasts, serial killers, mass shooters, perverts e.t.c.

    The difference being, of course, that again, your wealth allows “uncivilisation” to be tamed out sight, through a system of mass surveillance and ubiquitous prescription and stimulative drugging. You may rich Mr Hanson, but I am free in ways alien to you, freedoms you have and will continue to sacrifice at the altar of “first world civilisation”.

    P.S You might want to check the actual inventors of magic soil theory, just because some Blacks choose to appropriate it does not make then representative of the whole, anymore than Ted Bundy is representative of you.

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    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    So social science voodoo it is, with mendacious interpretation of data.
    , @Bill
    Blacks can't maintain civilization because blacks can't maintain civilization. Can't argue with that.
    , @Jack D
    But this is begging the question. WHY are European nations 10x richer than Africans? And don't tell me it's because they stole all of the African's resources. Why didn't the Africans steal all of the white's resources instead of vice versa? Why hasn't putting Africans in charge of their own resources for 50 years resulted in their catching up? Why is Japan a rich nation despite not having any resources?

    In what ways are you "free" that people in 1st world countries are not? This sounded kind of vague to me. And is this freedom worth the price of living amid such poverty and filth and disorder?
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  198. @The Millennial Falcon
    I tried Boy Scouts as a young teenager and disliked it so much it soured me to the idea of enlisting. Which is a shame because it's a pretty incredible bargain and something I would have taken pride in.

    I think I stumbled into a decent plan B though. Community college and then state school allowed me to rack up credits while working, thus building some savings and avoiding debt.

    I was metropolis-bound due to job for my twenties, which put my wife and I in a similar bind to Doug's - long commutes, small apartment, exorbitant housing prices. Still, by living modestly, we were able to have her stay home from work once we had our first kid. Then, using the savings we had scrounged together from our early married years, I was able to target a job on the fringe of the megalopolis and immediately buy a house out in the hinterlands.

    It's doable.

    I salute you. I hope you and yours are indicative of a trend, and one with many participants.

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  199. @J.Ross
    So regression to the means disproves all of HBD, and there's no such thing as history. Stay tuned for Newton's laws validating the literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. This is like if I followed you around a supermarket and claimed that your buying vegetables proves you eat nothing but junk food. Art must consider this blindingly ignorant trolling to be beneath him.

    Just out of curiosity, did you skip comprehension classes? Because I clearly state my own ignorance of the issue and asked for an explanation, which many here gave.

    I’d understand curiosity being a foreign concept to you though, a function of your time and place.

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    • Replies: @J.Ross
    I am not disparaging your grasp, I am impugning your seriousness. If that sounds obtuse then consider explaining to me how it should be that you speak English (even though you are speaking English), under the threat of me refusing to believe you exist because I set the search parameters too broadly.
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  200. @Travis
    The number of Blacks in America has doubled every 40 years

    1930 - 11,500,000 Blacks
    1970 - 22,400,000 Blacks
    2010 - 42,800,000 Blacks

    while the number of whites has not kept pace
    1930 - 110 million Whites
    1970 - 171 million Whites
    2010 - 195 million Whites

    There were more whites under the age of 50 in 1970 than today. In 1970 10% of whites were over the age of 60 while today 20% of the white people are elderly (over the age of 60)

    The average Black American is 31 years-old , while the average age of whites is 49 Years-old. importing 50 million hispanic has helped reduce the power and influence of Blacks. If immigration had been stopped in 1980 20% of the population would be Black today.

    I believe Black fertility in the US is now actually below replacement level at 1.85, imagine how quickly Whites could pull ahead if they had fertility rates similar to Israeli Jews or Mormons for that matter.

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    • Replies: @Travis
    true, Black female fertility has fallen below 2.0 since 2009 but White female fertility is now below 1.7 but 9% of white females have non-white babies...thus the true fertility for whites is below 1.6
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  201. @mom
    Aspiring parents may find that comment discouraging.

    Educated, cosmopolitan whites don't have to have it so tough. There are still plenty of ways for whites to get ahead and afford a family in U.S. society. For instance -- join the military* and do 4 years out of high school. All your needs are paid for and you can save $30,000 - $90,000 over those 4 years. Yes, really -- I'm an accountant and veteran and ran the numbers for various scenarios. The 4 years don't have to be 'wasted' because college credits can be amassed via CLEP tests, which are free to active-duty servicemembers. Then, finish up college for free with the amazing G.I. Bill. That takes about 2-3 years.

    So 6 years out of high school you are 24 years old, have $30,000 - $90,000 in your bank account, no debt, and a college degree.

    When it's time to buy a house, the VA lets you buy one with no money down.

    Point 3) about minority births at 50% -- that's the average for the entire country. Go to an area of the country where that's not true. Housing prices will be lower. Be as 'cosmopolitan' as you want by forming your own circle of intellectual friends or whatnot.

    To be clear, I do *not* recommend staying in the military with a family. It's tough on families. Just do 4 years out of high school then GTFO.

    *Joining the military is a great way for females to avoid the hookup culture of majority-female college campuses. Females are still a minority in the military and are highly sought-after by the males, some of whom are high-quality types with honorable intentions.

    You’re advice is good, but for a lot of people it’s not possible. About 75 percent of 17- to 24-year-olds are not qualified to join:
    Ready, Willing, And Unable To Serve
    Too Fat to Fight
    Incidentally, I don’t know off-hand about the other services, but about half the women in the Navy are married to men in the Navy. The figure is three-quarters for women in the Marines. Single when you enlist, married to a government-vetted man with a solid job and good career skills at EOAS. Such a deal.

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    • Replies: @mom
    Joining the military is just one avenue for getting ahead, but it's true many young people aren't qualified. It's much easier to enroll in college than get into the military.

    That said, some of those disqualifying factors, such as being overweight, are not a permanent bar to enlistment. An overweight aspiring enlistee can lose the weight and get in -- if, of course, that's the only factor preventing him or her from enlisting.

    In addition, some disqualifying factors are waiverable, but the likelihood of getting a waiver changes with the enlistment climate. During the 'Iraqistan' peak of the mid-2000s, all kinds of waivers were being granted for substandard candidates, at least in the Army. Now the Army is probably much more selective.

    Joining the military is just one of several counterexamples to what I saw as a doom-and-gloom comment about the difficulty of accomplishing affordable family formation for individual whites.

    Obviously in the general sense there are difficulties which previously didn't exist, but there are still several avenues available.

    Yes, it's true that there are many dual-military couples, where each spouse is serving in the military, or one is active duty and one is a veteran, or both are veterans.

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  202. @Samuel Skinner

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.
     
    Farewell to Alms; smart people outbreed dumber people in England for several centuries. In fact given that there is a divergence of IQ around the globe, smart people had to have out breed dumb people repeatedly in history- otherwise we never would have risen above chimps.

    Second, I don’t know of any data, but –I’m sure the folk here will enlighten me– showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.
     
    Regression to the mean.

    I’ll look up the Gregory Clark book at the Library.

    It does strike me as rather counter-intuitive, consider Literacy rates, reading and comprehension ability, I presume is correlated with IQ rates and yet “only 12% of the people in the world could read and write in 1820″–https://ourworldindata.org/literacy.

    Re: Chimps. Now I’m no expert, but did the diversion not occur over millions of years, as opposed to the mere, relatively speaking, 50-60k years since out of Africa II?

    ” Instead of being 99 per cent similar, we are more likely to be about 96 per cent similar.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/genetic-breakthrough-that-reveals-the-differences-between-humans-425432.html

    “On average, in DNA sequence, each human is 99.5% similar to any other human. ”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetic_variation

    Is the divergence hiding in the between 0.5-4% differences between humans?

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    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    The difference between me and someone with Down's Syndrome is a single extra chromosome.

    The behavioral differences, though, are vast.
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  203. @Space Ghost
    > Why aren’t there more inter-familial Nobel winners?

    You mean like Pierre and Marie Curie's daughter Irène? Or William and Lawrence Bragg? Or Niels and Aage Bohr? Or Hans and Ulf von Euler? Or Arthur and Roger Kornberg? Or Manne and Kai Siegbahn? Or J.J. and George Thomson? Or Jan and Nikolaas Tinbergen? Other than that I agree there aren't many inter-familial Nobel prize winners.

    Exceptions to the rule.

    The equivalent would be using Steph Curry as the example that, on average, the best NBA players usually aren’t children of NBA stars or Peyton Manning in the NFL.

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    • Replies: @guest
    But there are a great number of professional athletes with parents, children, siblings, and extended family in professional sports. Which can't all be environmental.

    Your problem is partly focusing too much on the tippity-top.

    Okay, J.S. Bach currently owns the highest status of any classical music composer. He produced two sons who are still well-known and heavily listened-to centuries after their deaths. He produced two other sons who are still listened-to, though aren't as famous. He also had one grandson composer who was famous in his own time.

    But none of them are as famous or highly-regarded as Old Bach. Well, I guess that disproves eugenics.

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  204. @Steve Sailer
    I was talking to some waiters at a restaurant near the Staples Center arena in downtown LA. They said hockey fans are the best tippers and best customers. Basketball fans are worse, and rap concert fans are the worst.

    Hockey fans are this kind of low profile elite.

    You can’t expect most NBA fans to tip their waitress or waiter after just dropping $300-$500 on the brand new Kobe’s, Jordan’s, or LeBron’s sneakers. Maintaining a basketball sneakers collection is not cheap and there will not be much disposable income left to tip the people who bring them their drinks and food.

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  205. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Newton was famously childless as was Pitt the younger. Ben Franklin, just two. Then don't get me started on the Romans, imagine Caesar dying with just two children. Might be a case of my memory being selective to buttress a point I'm already leaning towards, but it strikes me that the historically smart people were less fecund. Voltaire? Spinoza?

    Regarding dynasties, I meant less in terms of survival--which was more a matter of prestige-- than the noted abilities of the children. Compare say the actions and shrewdness of the highly capable Maria Theresa to the ditzy Marie Antoinette or Catherine the Great to Paul...

    Consider Genghis Khan, greatest conqueror in human history, in three generations, kids piss it all away. I dunno...

    Consider Genghis Khan, greatest conqueror in human history, in three generations, kids piss it all away.

    The thing to do here would be to actually study the history because that would explain everything. The Mongols were centuries ahead of their competitors in military science and stone age primitive in politics. What happened to them was roughly similar to what happened to the heirs of Alexander, not interested in a single coherent empire, doing fine with local administrative districts that became their own thing.

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    • Agree: Autochthon
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  206. @JosephB
    All I can think of is the Cosby show where they had 5 children.

    The real life Bill Cosby had 5 children as well: 4 girls and a boy.

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  207. @AnotherDad

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.
     
    I don't know why there are folks--but especially on a blog like Steve's--who make this sort of obviously ridiculous statement.

    The contrary is obviously the case: smarter folks have--generally--down through the ages, outbred dumber ones. This has to be the case. The fossil record shows a very clear record of ramp up of brain volume in the homo-genus over the last few million years right up to homo sapiens. And this can't be "oh, then we had agricultural and civilization and got dumber". No. Modern people from civilized societies are quite a bit smarter than the remnant hunter gather populations. Not just "hey they can read", but trying to educate kids from those societies--ex. Australian Aboriginals--shows they are very stupid. Smartness has had an even higher premium since the dawn of civilization. And modern humans from more civilized societies--greater time depth in civilization--have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures.

    "Smarts" is not just a survival advantage it is clearly and obviously *the* human competitive advantage.

    Have you ever tried educating one?

    Actually, flip that, in their natural environment, could you be as adaptative? as proficient? These have to be taken into context.

    I disagree with your premise, I’m more inclined to think that the modern world as we know it is due more to our ability to mass produce the fruits of smartness–think Borlaug’s green rev– than smarter people outbreeding dumber people, which as I’ve said strikes me as counter-intuitive.

    Although I’ve been recommended a Gregory Clark book.

    “And modern humans from more civilized societies–greater time depth in civilization–have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures.”

    To clarify, you’re saying that on average, a Chinese has a bigger brain than say an American?

    I doubt that, but even assuming the truth of your premise, that’d seem to square with my premise. The Anglo-tinged west kicked out ahead because it developed systems that didn’t require geniuses in charge, let it mask its weaknesses as it were.

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    • Replies: @notanon

    than smarter people outbreeding dumber people, which as I’ve said strikes me as counter-intuitive.
     
    now maybe but in the past i'd say it was plausible - especially if you consider it doesn't have to be the geniuses having tons of kids - all it takes is the 50% who are above average having more surviving kids than the 50% below average.

    (surviving kids != number of kids)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers#Health

    "they still have one of the highest birth rates in Europe"

    "Some 10% of Traveller children die before their second birthday, compared to just 1% of the general population. "

    , @Daniel Chieh


    I doubt that, but even assuming the truth of your premise, that’d seem to square with my premise. The Anglo-tinged west kicked out ahead because it developed systems that didn’t require geniuses in charge, let it mask its weaknesses as it were.

     

    I think an interesting parallel is that the Greeks heavily emphasized on perfection of form and their most successful armies thereby required a combination of a heroically skilled commander, excellent heavy infantry, brave cavalry, fleet skirmishers, and even elephants at times(Pyrrhus comes to mind). It worked great, when it worked. And it often didn't, because that's asking a lot out of reality.

    The Romans, on the other hand, basically threw three waves of well-armed soldiers at the enemy until they collapsed in exhaustion. Any reasonable centurion could do that. The Greeks lost.

    But three things can be taken from that, beyond the obvious. First, the Greeks produced vast quantities of culture even in their relatively short heyday and the Latins hugely adopted Greek culture. The obsession with the heroic individual might not be the most practical, but it certainly had good positive externalities.

    Secondly, while the Roman system provided a base standard of methodology that mostly worked, it led to incredible disasters at times as well such as Cannae. They could become predictable.

    Third, to the Roman credit, when sufficiently pushed to desperation, they were able to adapt(for example, to the Fabian strategy).

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  208. @Anonymous
    By that logic, our primate ancestors would have had higher IQs than contemporary humans.

    Why argue what cannot be proven. Do you know of any studies showing divergences between homo Sapiens Sapiens now and those say 200k years ago?

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  209. @Anonymous
    Pre-Nobel you had the Darwin-Wedgewood-Galton cluster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood_family

    The family contained at least ten Fellows of the Royal Society and several artists and poets (including the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams).
     

    Proof of smartness or merely familial connections? Like military families. The Hohenzollerns, for example, had a ton of Generals, only three or four by my reckoning were any good.

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  210. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Have you ever tried educating one?

    Actually, flip that, in their natural environment, could you be as adaptative? as proficient? These have to be taken into context.

    I disagree with your premise, I'm more inclined to think that the modern world as we know it is due more to our ability to mass produce the fruits of smartness--think Borlaug's green rev-- than smarter people outbreeding dumber people, which as I've said strikes me as counter-intuitive.

    Although I've been recommended a Gregory Clark book.


    "And modern humans from more civilized societies–greater time depth in civilization–have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures."
     
    To clarify, you're saying that on average, a Chinese has a bigger brain than say an American?

    I doubt that, but even assuming the truth of your premise, that'd seem to square with my premise. The Anglo-tinged west kicked out ahead because it developed systems that didn't require geniuses in charge, let it mask its weaknesses as it were.

    than smarter people outbreeding dumber people, which as I’ve said strikes me as counter-intuitive.

    now maybe but in the past i’d say it was plausible – especially if you consider it doesn’t have to be the geniuses having tons of kids – all it takes is the 50% who are above average having more surviving kids than the 50% below average.

    (surviving kids != number of kids)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers#Health

    “they still have one of the highest birth rates in Europe”

    “Some 10% of Traveller children die before their second birthday, compared to just 1% of the general population. “

    Read More
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  211. @JosephB
    Do you really think Bill Cosby's intellect is well represented by his 500 SAT score? That would correspond to an IQ of ~73. It's hard to be a stand-up comedian with that level of intelligence, particularly one who avoids profanity.

    Bill Cosby is of average intelligence with strong social skills. He is not smart nor is he borderline retarded. His SAT score and flunking the tenth grade three times indicates that he has a major learning disability.

    I have never thought of Bill Cosby’s comedy as intelligent, but I have only heard him talk about family. Most black comedians can do that sort of humor, but they don’t because black people gravitate towards negative behavior. Being vulgar was more lucrative for blacks in rap music, perhaps it is the same for comedy.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "I have never thought of Bill Cosby's comedy as intelligent"

    Maybe not especially intelligent, but surely it's a bit smarter than just north of retardation.

    The thing about stand-up comics is that they have to write and develop their own material. If it's not an excuse for them to make faces or do acrobatics onstage, or if they're not just jawing like they're on a street corner, it requires some intelligence to put together. In the very least, you need to know about joke structure and so forth.

    We're not talking genius-level IQ, or even necessarily above average. But comics are usually smarter than your average entertainer. That's why they clean up on Celebrity Jeopardy, for instance. (Journalists tend to do the worst, because they're idiots.)
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  212. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I think the truth is a bit more complex than this, at least for whites. IQ is a factor, but I think wealth also seems to be. And the two are not always tied together. I’ve noticed many high IQ whites who end up with low-paying jobs (for example, an Instructor level position in a university), have few, if any kids. Yet high IQ whites who get into well-paying gigs (for example, doctors) will often have more kids, not less, than a typical middle class family. And when you look at successful businessmen (take Trump, for example), its really not uncommon to see they will have 4, 5 kids or more.

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  213. Having been raised in a devote Catholic family I sort of understand why high achieving Mormons might have more kids. As a young Catholic I was taught that I had a choice between either Marriage or Holy Orders. In times past, when people took this seriously, marriage was the inferior choice. But a good and holy marriage would result in more children. To compensate for their less holy choice, those who chose marriage would want to have more children. It became a matter of prestige? “We have more children, and although we are not celibate, we still are important to the Church.” Since welfare was not available, those who could afford more would have more. A large family was a matter of prestige. If you couldn’t afford your children they might be given up for adoption or sent to an orphanage. No prestige in that. This was a eugenic practice and might have contributed to the success of the Europeans over 20 or 30 generations. It encourage the most able to have more children and allowed the lessor endowed a way out through religious orders. It was humane, and eugenic. It encourage those who were at the higher end of the gene pool to have as many children as they could afford and allowed a dignified life for those at the lower end.

    The Catholic tradition also allowed a place for those on the left of the Bell curve to not have children. The homely or awkward girls and boys could join a convent or monastery and contribute to society in a very meaningful way. This also added to the prestige of the family. A eugenic practice.

    There are other aspects of the Mormon religion which would could lead to the perception that Mormon’s are more eugenic. For example, if they are not financially successful and of less value to the congregation they might feel less welcome and to leave the faith. Those on the left side of the Bell Curve are not as visible.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I can't see how it was eugenic for Catholics to send their most academically talented sons into the genetic dead end of the priesthood.
    , @Proton Gakhe

    The Catholic tradition also allowed a place for those on the left of the Bell curve to not have children. The homely or awkward girls and boys could join a convent or monastery and contribute to society in a very meaningful way. This also added to the prestige of the family. A eugenic practice.
     
    Homely and awkward boys and girls are just as likely to be on the right side of the bell curve. The Chinese civil service exams (IQ tests) were one way to filter out extraneous bias. Gee, it's an added bonus if Mr. Smarty is also good-looking. But to accept a dumb floozy on the basis of looks is disastrous, and part of the decadence of Modern America.
    , @Thea
    Mormons generally take care if the less well off members.

    I grew up Catholic as well and I don't think eugenics ever enter their minds when deciding who ought to enter the priesthood. It's quite foreign to their beliefs and worldview.

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  214. @John Mansfield
    I happen to be a Mormon with an engineering PhD and six children. The youngest is eight, and a couple of the older boys are missionaries right now. Three months ago my wife's upper back pain was diagnosed as metastatic renal cell carcinoma. For now she is improving significantly thanks to immunotherapy infusions that have only recently become available for her cancer. As a believer, I will also credit the prayers and fasting of a couple hundred people on her behalf.

    The point of interest to readers of this blog, though, is the sort of material support my family has received from the church in a time when my wife has been incapacitated. There have been meals brought in and women coming in to clean the house weekly. When I was spending a lot of time after work at the hospital with my wife, there were women spending hours in my home with my children. Mormons have a high-trust society going on where we know one another's children and are comfortable telling them to knock off doing something they shouldn't be doing. Also, through the 1970s, '80s, and '90s, church leaders explicitly taught that Mormons should stick to the single-income model with a wife at home who gives her attention and energy to her family, and not only her family but to the community, instead of to an employer. I live in a neighborhood that is 1.1% Mormon, and whenever I attend a school function some other LDS parent is there. One night in the previous fall it was a meeting for high school marching band. The count of band members is 69. Two of the five parents running things were my home teacher and his wife. With myself, a high councilman, and a Primary music leader also present that made for five known LDS adults. A month before that at a meeting to plan parents’ assignments for a middle school musical play, there were three LDS out of a dozen present. One of them was the director of the play, one was me, and the other was the wife of the neighboring ward’s bishop. At the show I spent a few minutes chatting with the choreographer, who I didn't know, and then we surprised each other when we met again both singing second tenor at a stake choir rehearsal. I can add to the tally of LDS in my area punching above their weight in youth matters the pleasure I had last year fall and spring at high school orchestra concerts watching my son and another member of his priests’ quorum flanking the stage as cello section leader and concertmaster.

    So sorry to hear about your wife. Add us to the list of people who are praying for her. But as the saying goes, praise the Lord but pass the ammunition. The checkpoint inhibitors are a ray of hope.

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  215. @Paleo Liberal
    Interesting that the original batch of Mormons were a much smarter than average group of people.
    Similar to the Puritans and Pilgrims who went to New England, or the Quakers who went to Pennsylvania.
    Or also the elite from China who fled to Taiwan after the Chinese Revolution.

    Note that New England still has many of the best schools in the country (although the Philadelphia area has some great colleges. I attended a Friendly college in the Philly area).

    Note also that many of the Americans who settled in the Upper Midwest came from New England.

    Hence Moynihan's Rule.

    It’s hard to reconcile the idea that the 1st Mormons were smarter than average when they all fell for Joseph Smith who was (no disrespect intended to our Mormon friends) a sociopath, a con man and a sexual predator along the lines of Jim Jones. Smith’s part of upstate NY was called the “Burned Over District” because it was periodically overtaken by waves of evangelical fervor. Now high intelligence and the ability to believe in miraculous religious narratives of their own religion (in people who have no problem seeing the obvious falsity of say the Greek or Roman or Viking gods) are not mutually exclusive, but you do have to wonder how it is so possible to compartmentalize your mind – one part possessed with scientific skepticism and the other accepting of faith without meaningful proof (and the affidavits in the front of the book of Mormon don’t count). This applies to all religions but especially to LDS because its founding events are not lost in the mists of history.

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  216. @The Millennial Falcon
    Not in the western half of the country, for the most part. The "bad" schools where I live are majority Hispanic. Middle-class white parents I know are just as particular about good schools, to the point of adding 40 minutes on to their commute and paying $100k+ extra for housing.

    You are being too literal. He meant NAM’s.

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  217. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    It’s not like the Nobel Prize is granted strictly on merit. They could have deliberately decided not to give multiple awards to one family for various reasons without telling us.

    There are in fact families of very high achievement over multiple generations. The Bernoullis and Bachs come to mind. But there are a few things acting against it. We’re talking really high achievement, here. There are lots of ways to go wrong:

    1). As others have pointed out, regression to the mean. You’re gonna get some drop-off right away.

    2). Your “IQ uber alle” is a strawman. Environment matters, especially at the highest level, a most delicate level. Very smart children of ridiculously smart parents will still have to be groomed properly. What if they get into girls/boys or drugs?

    3). You mention being outbred. There is an extremely high correlation between intellectual achievement and childlessness or minimal children.

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    • Replies: @guest
    About #3, I meant to say there's a correlation between intellectual achievement at the highest level and childlessness or minimal children.
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  218. @shredder
    Having been raised in a devote Catholic family I sort of understand why high achieving Mormons might have more kids. As a young Catholic I was taught that I had a choice between either Marriage or Holy Orders. In times past, when people took this seriously, marriage was the inferior choice. But a good and holy marriage would result in more children. To compensate for their less holy choice, those who chose marriage would want to have more children. It became a matter of prestige? "We have more children, and although we are not celibate, we still are important to the Church." Since welfare was not available, those who could afford more would have more. A large family was a matter of prestige. If you couldn't afford your children they might be given up for adoption or sent to an orphanage. No prestige in that. This was a eugenic practice and might have contributed to the success of the Europeans over 20 or 30 generations. It encourage the most able to have more children and allowed the lessor endowed a way out through religious orders. It was humane, and eugenic. It encourage those who were at the higher end of the gene pool to have as many children as they could afford and allowed a dignified life for those at the lower end.

    The Catholic tradition also allowed a place for those on the left of the Bell curve to not have children. The homely or awkward girls and boys could join a convent or monastery and contribute to society in a very meaningful way. This also added to the prestige of the family. A eugenic practice.

    There are other aspects of the Mormon religion which would could lead to the perception that Mormon's are more eugenic. For example, if they are not financially successful and of less value to the congregation they might feel less welcome and to leave the faith. Those on the left side of the Bell Curve are not as visible.

    I can’t see how it was eugenic for Catholics to send their most academically talented sons into the genetic dead end of the priesthood.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "the generic dead end of the priesthood"

    Tell that to Rodrigo Borgia.
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  219. Well, in defiance of the welfare breeding program, statistics now seem to show that gated communities of religious White people can more than provide replacement level breeding to ameliorate demographic collapse and shit all over the prevailing cuckservative RINO narratives.

    RINOs are more endangered every day. Who cries for the Rockefeller wings that cannot fly over our heads anymore?

    NOT I.

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  220. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Exceptions to the rule.

    The equivalent would be using Steph Curry as the example that, on average, the best NBA players usually aren't children of NBA stars or Peyton Manning in the NFL.

    But there are a great number of professional athletes with parents, children, siblings, and extended family in professional sports. Which can’t all be environmental.

    Your problem is partly focusing too much on the tippity-top.

    Okay, J.S. Bach currently owns the highest status of any classical music composer. He produced two sons who are still well-known and heavily listened-to centuries after their deaths. He produced two other sons who are still listened-to, though aren’t as famous. He also had one grandson composer who was famous in his own time.

    But none of them are as famous or highly-regarded as Old Bach. Well, I guess that disproves eugenics.

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  221. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Finally embracing your inner eugenicist ehh Steve?

    But here's the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.

    Second, I don't know of any data, but --I'm sure the folk here will enlighten me-- showing smartness as being inherited. Otherwise, why do dynasties fail? Why aren't there more inter-familial Nobel winners? and so forth.

    Let us assume that you are well aware of regression to the mean. (Are you OK with that?) I read what you have written and I have to wonder, do you think anecdote trumps data? Your recitation of the imbecile roll does not help your case. But maybe I am not cognizant of the point you want to make. So, please be explicit. What is your point?

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  222. @Bill P
    Maybe Californian hockey fans tip well and behave themselves, but that doesn't apply to Canadians.

    True.

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  223. @Nigerian Nationalist
    Because you're being selective with your data sources.

    Tis a fact that Europeans and North Americans are much, much, much x10 richer than everybody else. That correlates with your "First World Civilisation". For one, many "Black countries" due to their poverty are unable to provide universal education, a 19th-century invention, which in combination with the Industrial and Scientific revolution brought about "The First World".

    However, within your cultures are pockets of what for lack of a better term we can "uncivilisation": Chavs, Rednecks, Appalachians, Race war enthusiasts, serial killers, mass shooters, perverts e.t.c.

    The difference being, of course, that again, your wealth allows "uncivilisation" to be tamed out sight, through a system of mass surveillance and ubiquitous prescription and stimulative drugging. You may rich Mr Hanson, but I am free in ways alien to you, freedoms you have and will continue to sacrifice at the altar of "first world civilisation".


    P.S You might want to check the actual inventors of magic soil theory, just because some Blacks choose to appropriate it does not make then representative of the whole, anymore than Ted Bundy is representative of you.

    So social science voodoo it is, with mendacious interpretation of data.

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    • Agree: Nico
    • Replies: @Nigerian Nationalist
    You have a different opinion, so you're wrong, "La La La".

    How enlightened.
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  224. @Corn
    I loathe to send anyone to The Atlantic but Megan McArdle wrote a really good article there a while back about the Mormon welfare state.
    After reading it I thought, “this is why we can’t have nice things”.

    LDS are a charitable bunch, but they still have a distinction between “deserving poor” and “undeserving” or wayward poor.
    Something a government funded welfare state would never be allowed to notice. 14th Amendment, equal protection blah blah blah

    but they still have a distinction between “deserving poor” and “undeserving” or wayward poor.

    I’ll bet that would reduce the welfare rolls by 3/4 if not 4/5.

    open /sarc If a pimp beating his whores and selling crack on the side doesn’t get welfare, then we need to alert the military-industrial SJW complex forthwith. close/sarc

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  225. @AnotherDad

    But here’s the thing, even accepting your IQ uber alle premise, smarter folks have always been outbred. Off the top of my head, JS Mill and Keynes for one.
     
    I don't know why there are folks--but especially on a blog like Steve's--who make this sort of obviously ridiculous statement.

    The contrary is obviously the case: smarter folks have--generally--down through the ages, outbred dumber ones. This has to be the case. The fossil record shows a very clear record of ramp up of brain volume in the homo-genus over the last few million years right up to homo sapiens. And this can't be "oh, then we had agricultural and civilization and got dumber". No. Modern people from civilized societies are quite a bit smarter than the remnant hunter gather populations. Not just "hey they can read", but trying to educate kids from those societies--ex. Australian Aboriginals--shows they are very stupid. Smartness has had an even higher premium since the dawn of civilization. And modern humans from more civilized societies--greater time depth in civilization--have bigger brains than those from less civilized more primitive cultures.

    "Smarts" is not just a survival advantage it is clearly and obviously *the* human competitive advantage.

    The above poster is not thinking simply in terms of “smarter folks,” as they put it, I don’t think. Rather, based on invoking Keynes and Mill, I assume they’re thinking of the great names in intellectual history. The Big Boys, who indeed have historically had trouble producing babies. At least in recent centuries.

    The list is long and well-known of great figures in science, art, philosophy, and so on who were effectively sterile. I don’t need to elucidate.

    But these people were of course extreme outliers. Regular “smarter folks” have much more in common with retards than world-historical geniuses.

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  226. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. Mormon
    Sorry Bill. Not quite right. The 10% tithing does not go towards welfare at all.
    The welfare program comes from a system we have where we are expected to fast for two meals a month, and pool that money to help the poor. Unlike taxes, we literally sacrifice our meals to feed others. The recipients of this assistance know that they are quite literally having others go hungry to help them out. While there are still abusers and freeloaders, of course, I think this cuts down substantially on the sense of entitlement I often see in tax-based government welfare programs.

    Don't get me wrong though -- there is no public shaming or the like in the program. The congregation is unaware of who is receiving the funds, aside from a couple of trusted volunteers that are in the know in administrating the funds (which are fully audited as well, of course, to prevent abuses).

    The program works quite well, and my son once did an analysis of data on hunger in the US that indicated that if this "skip two meals once a month to help others" program were deployed nationally, it could end hunger in the US.

    At one point there was a clear relationship between the storehouse and the in-kind fast offerings, and I think they still teach it the way you describe to give some meaning and rationale for the fast. But I don’t know that there’s a strict segregation of funds now with fungible cash donations. I would draw your attention to the disclaimer on the donation slips:

    Though reasonable efforts will be made to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church’s property and will be used at the Church’s sole discretion to further the Church’s overall mission.

    Moreover, I can tell you that the amount collected in local fast offerings has, as far as I can tell, ZERO relationship with local welfare expenditures, and from what I’ve seen the expenditures are usually FAR higher, even in wards where you wouldn’t necessarily expect it.

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  227. @guest
    It's not like the Nobel Prize is granted strictly on merit. They could have deliberately decided not to give multiple awards to one family for various reasons without telling us.

    There are in fact families of very high achievement over multiple generations. The Bernoullis and Bachs come to mind. But there are a few things acting against it. We're talking really high achievement, here. There are lots of ways to go wrong:

    1). As others have pointed out, regression to the mean. You're gonna get some drop-off right away.

    2). Your "IQ uber alle" is a strawman. Environment matters, especially at the highest level, a most delicate level. Very smart children of ridiculously smart parents will still have to be groomed properly. What if they get into girls/boys or drugs?

    3). You mention being outbred. There is an extremely high correlation between intellectual achievement and childlessness or minimal children.

    About #3, I meant to say there’s a correlation between intellectual achievement at the highest level and childlessness or minimal children.

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  228. @Jack D
    I can't see how it was eugenic for Catholics to send their most academically talented sons into the genetic dead end of the priesthood.

    “the generic dead end of the priesthood”

    Tell that to Rodrigo Borgia.

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  229. The Chinese have been hampered if I read John Derbyshire’s latest article on VDARE correctly, by short-sighted greediness seen in selling poison dog food and baby formula. This seems a recurring feature of Chinese society as well as periodic cult idiocy even larger than that of the Western ones, and a rigid, top-down requirement for the Emperor or at least his representatives to check up on every little thing to make sure there’s no cheating and familial empire building.

    In the West, there was no Emperor from 476 (arguably before that effectively) until Christmas Day 800, and that did not last much beyond Charlemagne. And even then it was local: not applicable to much of Italy, all of England, Islamic Spain, and certainly Saxony which was pagan. Westerners are capable of doing things without the Emperor or his representatives watching every move to make sure it is done correctly, most of the time, for most Westerners.

    Moreover, smart people in the fragmented West found a lot more power and freedom, particularly if they were finding new advantageous trade routes or ways to kill the enemy. Political fragmentation into great power groups instead of a unitary empire or mosaic of city states had its advantages. As did much less manpower and supervisory people to control things — labor saving devices found a great home in the West starting in the Middle Ages unlike China which had to soak up manpower.

    As for intelligence, it no doubt was more advantageous to have intelligence in the pre-1965 society, but now clearly in particular MALE INTELLIGENCE is a reproductive disadvantage. Whereas before intelligence meant far less likelihood of a male provider drinking wages away, or beating his wife/children, or philandering and bringing home venereal disease, now it means far less aptitude in the important things for reproduction: being the best singer, dancer, fighter, etc.

    We went in the West from the Space Race and Cold War limited Welfare State to Gym Tan Laundry of Jersey Shore in a heartbeat. Its a Kardashian World and the types of men who have lots of kids are Kevin Federline and not Richard Feynman. Yes, it used to be different. But the pill, condom, rising female wages (no need for male providership), anonymous urban living (no slut penalty), mass female consumerism (you go girl media cheering squad to sell the random hookup life with accompanying consumer goods) means emphasis on high levels of male domination, aggressiveness, etc. all of which are extremely negatively correlated with IQ.

    TLDR: Kevin Federline already has six kids, with Shar Jackson, Britney Spears, and model Victoria Prince. James Damore will be lucky to have one.

    Emphasis on male sexiness means African levels of IQ. Quickly too.

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    • Replies: @L Woods

    but now clearly in particular MALE INTELLIGENCE is a reproductive disadvantage.
     
    Particularly, it would seem, amongst white gentile women (and NAMs). There's a reason most people of above average intelligence have long gravitated towards the Jewish-led left: they at least value intellect. The left's claim on intellectualism is a specious, hollow one, but compelling nonetheless when presented with alternative sub-cultures that venerate athletes, thugs, and bearded retards with giant pickup trucks. Intelligent NAM's have the countervailing incentive of racial spoils to retain some identification with their idiocratic broader communities; intelligent white gentiles don't. Really, the only thing the core coalition has going for it is that it happens to have objective truth on its side. This really only speaks to the sort of autists you find in in the alt/dissident/whatever right, so cluelessly maladroit that the truth actually matters to them more than social positioning.
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