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Atlantic: Reopening Emmett Till Case Won't Get to the Bottom of the Vast Racist Conspiracy
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From The Atlantic:

Reopening the Emmett Till Case Is a Cynical Play

The Justice Department’s investigation of the country’s most infamous lynching case won’t implicate a society full of accomplices.

Guilt is in your blood, you “people who think they are white,” as Ta-Nehisi Coates has explained.

VANN R. NEWKIRK II

JACKSON, Miss.—If there is a fight to be had for the future of America, it will be waged in the Delta.

Because, as we all know, America Is Made Out of Cotton, so what land could be more important to the future than the rural cotton belt south of Memphis?

The great alluvial plain to the west and north of here, stretching from Vicksburg on up to Memphis, and expanding out like a fan from the mighty Mississippi River, is a storied home to movement, and is the proving ground of the laws and legends that make the country what it is today. Past the soybean farms and pine stands, the cotton plantations and catfish ponds, there’s a political significance to this agricultural expanse. The Mississippi Delta is a reservoir of demographic strength—the blackest part of the blackest state in the country. But it is also one of the poorest places in America …

It’s a paradox! Clearly, there must be some vast racist conspiracy that keeps this “reservoir of demographic strength” so poor.

… The larger conspiracy around Till’s death, and the brutal assassinations of so many of Mississippi’s sons, daughters, and descendants, is the very existence of the current status quo, which white violence built.

… The ghosts of the martyrs have haunted the South, always rallying the descendants of slaves and sharecroppers and helping create generations of activists who demand ever more from the hegemonies that extracted blood and money from them.

For some reason, though, there’s not much money left in the Mississippi Delta. Where’d it go? Why is Minnesota richer than Mississippi? Obviously, there was some kind of conspiracy that needs a theory to explain why.

And the unsolved nature of Till’s death has been a parallel to the unsolved status of black people in America, a reminder of the restitution and reconciliation that have long been demanded, but have never been granted. The eternal taunt of the Bryant boys is an inconvenience for those who maintain that the country is past all that already.

Fortunately, we can have show trials every day in the media of “people who think they are white.”

 
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  1. Tiny Duck says:

    You people don’t understand how whiteness kills People of Color

    https://88cupsoftea.com/podcast/sabaa-tahir/

    Listen to the 18:00 mark. Asians deal with racism too

    Read More
    • Troll: IHTG
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    You listen to that shit? If you weren't gay I would be,right now,taunting you for being gay!
    Taunting you!
    , @tyrone
    Sounds like a super- power to me………hmmmm …….If we work together to enhance these powers think what we could achieve.
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  2. “extracted blood and money from them”

    200 years ago dusky-skinned, Stone Age hunter/gatherers were yoked to the plow and forced to work just as white farmers did up north and they’re still traumatized by it.

    Just recalling the hazy pseudo-memory of their forebear’s having to put in a decent day’s work brings on PTSD in these, the great, great, great, great grand children.

    Read More
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  3. ChrisZ says:

    This is OT, but relevant to the general topic of an ongoing culture war.

    Last night I saw the new Marvel film “Ant-Man and the Wasp,” which was a fun romp. But it also had some very heterodox features that readers here might find interesting, and even encouraging:

    > The film’s prominent theme revolves around the enduring, elevating, self-sacrificing nature of heterosexual marital love and its fruit in children.

    > A scene where a male character is “possessed” by the mind of a female is played for laughs, with no hint that effeminacy in a man might be a laudible quality. (The point is especially noteworthy because the film is set in San Francisco.)

    > A black scientist character, ostensibly set up as the figure who will provide a solution unavailable to the main (white) scientist characters, turns out instead to be an antagonist who acts out of long-held, long-past resentments. This character is called at one point “a mediocrity” without an original idea in his scientific career, and that charge is not disputed elsewhere in the film. In fact, he’s shown to be an incompetant in the field of super science, who relies on the white lead characters to solve the problems he (the black scientist) has promised but failed to solve.

    > The main “super-villain” is a mixed-race woman with a European accent, daughter of a rival white scientist who is labeled a traitor (and is shown in a flashback to be lethally incompetant), whose entire motivation is to steal the technology that the main characters have invented, and use it to her own benefit–even if it spells distaster for others. Despite her selfishness, she’s cured of her affliction by a white scientist she had previously endangered.

    > An Asian FBI agent is depicted as a prissy stick-in-the-mud who is consistently outwitted by the main characters. He harrasses Ant-Man’s civilian identity by invading his home; the latter is living under house arrest for the “crime” of loyalty to [Captain] America.

    > The film features a trio of “good-guy” ethnics (Hispanic, Russian, and Black) endearingly portrayed as 1970s-vintage stereotypes that would be at home on “Welcome Back, Kotter.” An opposing group of bad-guy ethnics includes what look like Russian and Hispanic gangsters, and a sinister East Indian. (In the film’s rare concession to elite biases, the evil ethnic gang is led by a white southern guy.)

    Maybe I’ve been spending too much time on iSteve, but the above character and plot points spoke to me as “coded” references to topics routinely under discussion here. It all strikes me as the very opposite of this year’s earlier Marvel opus, “Black Panther,” which was a hot topic in this forum five months ago. But then again, what should one expect from a movie that proudly includes the word “WASP” in its title? I’m curious to know what others here think.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Marvel is relatively right wing, having been bought in the 1990s by a couple of Israeli war veterans.
    , @conatus
    Speaking of movies I thought the Sicario sequel might have gotten some bad reviews because it was too honest in its portrayal of the border problems.
    They describe the USA as "Paradise' says the chief mule, also"Remember they are sheep"(of the illegals).
    Josh Brolin, the American badass, says something like "The cartels make more money smuggling illegals coming to the US than drug smuggling"
    When Benecio del Toro was trying to sneak the girl back over the border he told her to say he was not her real father.
    The ending was kind of Deus Ex Machina but the movie was not ceaseless shoot'm'up. It was different and like I say, I thought the movie touched some Political Immigration topic 3rd rails and that was why some cocktail-party-dependent reviewers were negative.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    The Left became the establishment; the Saileresque Right is a counterculture right now. It's a bit surprising it has not attracted more angsty artists coding their ill understood messages.

    We may see more of that as time passes.
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  4. njguy73 says:

    Just have the federal government declare Mississippi to be a rogue state, send in the Marines, overthrow the current regime, and install a new one.

    We don’t seem to be good at doing that with foreign lands. Maybe if we did it to ourselves we’d get it right.

    And if Mississippians flee, there won’t be a refugee problem. They won’t be seeking asylum in America. They’re already there.

    Or just dissolve the state. Have Louisiana, Tennessee, and Alabama each take a third.

    Anyone got a better idea?

    Read More
    • Replies: @tyrone
    Yes, relax and have some watermelon. You may have a better idea tomorrow.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @ChrisZ
    This is OT, but relevant to the general topic of an ongoing culture war.

    Last night I saw the new Marvel film “Ant-Man and the Wasp,” which was a fun romp. But it also had some very heterodox features that readers here might find interesting, and even encouraging:

    > The film’s prominent theme revolves around the enduring, elevating, self-sacrificing nature of heterosexual marital love and its fruit in children.

    > A scene where a male character is “possessed” by the mind of a female is played for laughs, with no hint that effeminacy in a man might be a laudible quality. (The point is especially noteworthy because the film is set in San Francisco.)

    > A black scientist character, ostensibly set up as the figure who will provide a solution unavailable to the main (white) scientist characters, turns out instead to be an antagonist who acts out of long-held, long-past resentments. This character is called at one point “a mediocrity” without an original idea in his scientific career, and that charge is not disputed elsewhere in the film. In fact, he’s shown to be an incompetant in the field of super science, who relies on the white lead characters to solve the problems he (the black scientist) has promised but failed to solve.

    > The main “super-villain” is a mixed-race woman with a European accent, daughter of a rival white scientist who is labeled a traitor (and is shown in a flashback to be lethally incompetant), whose entire motivation is to steal the technology that the main characters have invented, and use it to her own benefit–even if it spells distaster for others. Despite her selfishness, she’s cured of her affliction by a white scientist she had previously endangered.

    > An Asian FBI agent is depicted as a prissy stick-in-the-mud who is consistently outwitted by the main characters. He harrasses Ant-Man’s civilian identity by invading his home; the latter is living under house arrest for the “crime” of loyalty to [Captain] America.

    > The film features a trio of “good-guy” ethnics (Hispanic, Russian, and Black) endearingly portrayed as 1970s-vintage stereotypes that would be at home on “Welcome Back, Kotter.” An opposing group of bad-guy ethnics includes what look like Russian and Hispanic gangsters, and a sinister East Indian. (In the film’s rare concession to elite biases, the evil ethnic gang is led by a white southern guy.)

    Maybe I’ve been spending too much time on iSteve, but the above character and plot points spoke to me as “coded” references to topics routinely under discussion here. It all strikes me as the very opposite of this year’s earlier Marvel opus, “Black Panther,” which was a hot topic in this forum five months ago. But then again, what should one expect from a movie that proudly includes the word “WASP” in its title? I’m curious to know what others here think.

    Marvel is relatively right wing, having been bought in the 1990s by a couple of Israeli war veterans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whiskey
    No it isn't. It's owned by Disney and the next phase is all Girl power and Black Panther. Fiege has said so.

    Whatever influence Avri Arad had is gone under Disney which is 100% poz.

    Look at Star Wars to see where they will go. It's all Brie Larson and Chadwick Bozeman after the next Avengers movie.

    Hollywood never cares about the audience just getting paid and posturing. They face no real competition.
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  6. Jake says:

    There is only 1 solution to the vast racist conspiracy: in order to protect the race of Numinous Negroes, to arrange things so that the inherently racist whites cannot harm the Numinous Negroes, the US must split, with all the Numinous Negroes in a new nation. No matter how much they would prefer to live among the Numinous Negroes, all white Gentiles who are not gay and not long time supporters of Marxist or Cultural Marxist ideas, and are not Buddhist or Hindu, must live in the part of the US that is sans Numinous Negroes.

    Jews, being anti-racist to the core, will all demand to live with all the Numinous Negroes. Mexicans, too, would all choose the Numinous Negroes, as would Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Filipinos, and Indians (both kinds).

    Read More
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  7. Unzerker says:

    The Justice Department’s investigation of the country’s most infamous lynching case won’t implicate a society full of accomplices.

    Is it really a lynching when two men murder somebody and hide his body?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    According to the NAACP and fellow travelers, three offenders are necessary to perform a lynching. Death (by any means) is required. An offense against public morals is also required (e.g. "dissing", laughing at the wrong person, "copping a feel" or anything worse).

    A husband killing a wife for smarting off is not a lynching: Not enough perpetrators. The Saint Valentine's Day Massacre was not a lynching: It was strictly commercial, no offense against public morals. A Paki family killing a wayward daughter IS a lynching, however.

    Oddly enough, there is no public performative element required to constitute a lynching. Race is not required, either. Three perpetrators, a death, and an offense against public morals are enough.
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  8. This article is just another thinly veiled appeal for reparations.

    A never ending treasure hunt in an ocean of white guilt.

    “Pay up whitey”, would be more honest and succinct.

    Read More
    • Agree: julius caesar
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    How many white people have been raped, tortured, and murdered by blacks?
    How many of them can you name?
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  9. @Tiny Duck
    You people don't understand how whiteness kills People of Color

    https://88cupsoftea.com/podcast/sabaa-tahir/

    Listen to the 18:00 mark. Asians deal with racism too

    You listen to that shit? If you weren’t gay I would be,right now,taunting you for being gay!
    Taunting you!

    Read More
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  10. Jim Given says:

    Over The Top Rhetoric Department

    So many gems recorded in such a short blog! Yes, “people who think they are white”. I thought it was settled that Whiteness like Blackness must be objective, exclusive and inviolate. If you believe you’re a woman inside, OK, you’re a woman. But not so with Blackness. Or with Whiteness (?) This deserves a Mainstream media test case

    “Reservoirs of demographic strength” ?? What can this mean? That a lot of people live there?
    I hope I don’t detect here any covert racist talk, but can “reservoirs of demographic black strength” be what is implied? Is California also a reservoir?

    Last but not least, “the eternal taunts of the Bryant boys”. Omigod! This phrase rings with the alliterative ambition of the “I Have a Dream Speech”. Perhaps it will be a verse in a future American (inter)-national anthem.

    Remember the days when there was more decency in the public sector, and this type of race-baiting rhetoric was confined to the sermons of upwardly ascendant black preachers? Perhaps, in a way, it still is-

    Read More
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  11. Anonymous[394] • Disclaimer says:

    This guy’s overly florid style — better than the average college newspaper but hamstrung by the same gassy incoherence Ta puffs out — obstructs the intended argument if any (I think he just wanted to piss on some civil servants in the spirit of always-been-at-war-with-EastDOJia, but whatever actual insights it had, I missed). The affected “swaggering black preacher-prosecutor” thing works *a lot* worse in print than in person, such that for a younger writer it seems like grasping at unearned authority. Kareem Abdul Jabbar can pull that off in measured doses but only because it’s in service of having a point, i.e. a desire to communicate something beyond self-display.

    To be fair the move toward self-righteous purply prose has gone site-wide at The Atlantic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a better pundit than Ta-Nehesi Coates, and Kareem is also the NBA all-time scoring leader, which Ta-Nehesi is not.
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  12. Forbes says:

    Re-opening the Emmett Till case looks/sounds like another baton withwhich to bash more white heads to coincide with the cries of white privilege, white racism, white nationalism, white colonialism, and any other “isms” you can think of…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's the lead story on one news site after another today.
    "BREAKING NEWS" even.

    How many years ago again??

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  13. @Anonymous
    This guy's overly florid style -- better than the average college newspaper but hamstrung by the same gassy incoherence Ta puffs out -- obstructs the intended argument if any (I think he just wanted to piss on some civil servants in the spirit of always-been-at-war-with-EastDOJia, but whatever actual insights it had, I missed). The affected "swaggering black preacher-prosecutor" thing works *a lot* worse in print than in person, such that for a younger writer it seems like grasping at unearned authority. Kareem Abdul Jabbar can pull that off in measured doses but only because it's in service of having a point, i.e. a desire to communicate something beyond self-display.

    To be fair the move toward self-righteous purply prose has gone site-wide at The Atlantic.

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a better pundit than Ta-Nehesi Coates, and Kareem is also the NBA all-time scoring leader, which Ta-Nehesi is not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    Like John Derbyshire, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was in a Bruce Lee film, which is a lot cooler than anything Ta-Nehesi Coates was ever associated with.
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  14. tyrone says:
    @njguy73
    Just have the federal government declare Mississippi to be a rogue state, send in the Marines, overthrow the current regime, and install a new one.

    We don't seem to be good at doing that with foreign lands. Maybe if we did it to ourselves we'd get it right.

    And if Mississippians flee, there won't be a refugee problem. They won't be seeking asylum in America. They're already there.

    Or just dissolve the state. Have Louisiana, Tennessee, and Alabama each take a third.

    Anyone got a better idea?

    Yes, relax and have some watermelon. You may have a better idea tomorrow.

    Read More
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  15. tyrone says:
    @Tiny Duck
    You people don't understand how whiteness kills People of Color

    https://88cupsoftea.com/podcast/sabaa-tahir/

    Listen to the 18:00 mark. Asians deal with racism too

    Sounds like a super- power to me………hmmmm …….If we work together to enhance these powers think what we could achieve.

    Read More
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  16. El Dato says:

    unsolved status of black people

    I didn’t know the US had a “blackbody question” for which a solution, final or otherwise, needs to be found.

    This may go less well than expected.

    Read More
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  17. Dr. X says:

    Fortunately, we can have show trials every day in the media of “people who think they are white.”

    We’re going to have an actual show trial in court for the guy was was charged with TWO FELONIES for telling a Puerto Rican woman to go back home…

    https://nypost.com/2018/07/12/man-who-ranted-about-puerto-rico-shirt-charged-with-hate-crimes/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Did he beat her, or even hit her, or even touch her?

    Okay, he is a dumbass. But should being a dumbass cost him his life?


    Our society destroys the lives of some dumbasses and lets others skate soley on the basis of skin color.
    Such a society does face condign punishment. Sooner or later.

    O then tell me, Sean O'Farrell, tell me, why you tarry?
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  18. What is it about race relations in the USA? It’s like those black-and-white cookies that I never liked as a kid. This friggin’ binary stuff is so old-fashioned, right? Is the Left suddenly going full Gottfried von Leibnitz? That’s so ’80s comp-sci 101. So not holistic. Now there are quantum and other states to reckon with.

    OT, but this post made me remember this piece from NPR. Some folks really eat dirt, and they prefer “white” dirt:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/02/297881388/the-old-and-mysterious-practice-of-eating-dirt-revealed

    And if it’s from NPR, it’s safe to mention in polite society/faculty while looking concerned over a glass of red that the hosts got at Whole Foods or a local co-op. Probably has a cute label. Not two-buck chuck.

    Advice (and a potential abstract): Channel the spirit of Thomas Friedman when hanging out with the beautiful people. He’s always very concerned. Apple should make emoticons of Friedman’s eyebrows in their various configurations; his eyebrows are as constellations in the firmament. AI can easily figure out just how TF is feeling in any given photo of video frame, based solely on his eyebrows.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Forbes
    Friedman's '70s era porn-stache distracts from that concern...
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  19. The Mississippi Delta is a reservoir of demographic strength—the blackest part of the blackest state in the country. But it is also one of the poorest places in America …

    Mississippi is one of the least populated states of the American South. The Mississippi Delta counties in particular have low population densities, and may not even be where most of the state’s black population resides, not in this century. Black fertility has also dropped in recent decades. The place just ain’t making a comeback, unless maybe Newkirk has some information I don’t have? It is possible.

    If there is a fight to be had for the future of America, it will be waged in the Delta.

    Otherwise, yea, come on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @VivaLaMigra
    the Magnolia State is thinly populated? Consider the heat and humidity, and forget about June, July, August - I'm talking about just plain nasty in May or October - the swampy, flat, uninteresting terrain - and besides really good black dirt - not the "magic dirt" to which Mr. Sailor often refers, just the stuff that grows things - what has MS got going for it in the way of resources? Screw Seattle, I'm moving to Biloxi! - said no hipster, ever!
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  20. DFH says:

    If there is a fight to be had for the future of America, it will be waged in the Delta

    What did he mean by this?

    Read More
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  21. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    Marvel is relatively right wing, having been bought in the 1990s by a couple of Israeli war veterans.

    No it isn’t. It’s owned by Disney and the next phase is all Girl power and Black Panther. Fiege has said so.

    Whatever influence Avri Arad had is gone under Disney which is 100% poz.

    Look at Star Wars to see where they will go. It’s all Brie Larson and Chadwick Bozeman after the next Avengers movie.

    Hollywood never cares about the audience just getting paid and posturing. They face no real competition.

    Read More
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  22. Sean says:

    The only surviving witness (possibly participant) for the actual beating and murder of Till is a black employee of the bother of husband who was seen hosing down the truck afterward. There is no question that Emmett Till leaned out the window of the car as he was being driven away from the store and whistled. According to witnesses he’d wolf whistled and shouted at the woman returning to the store from her car “Bye Baby” . That was always the version of Till’s defenders, especially his mother who insisted he whistled to conceal a stutter and had not been whistling at the woman at all. He was extremely extroverted (Southern blacks thought him arrogant and contemptuous of them) and may have been mildly retarded; his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.

    What happened before while Till was in the shop with the women was always a matter of dispute. But there is agreement from his cousins that after buying a few things and stepping outside they had a conversation with Till and challenged him to make good his boasts about sex with white girls with the large breasted but petite woman behind the counter. He went back in and a black local came out and said “You have a crazy cousin”. It seems to me that at the very least Till asked that married woman for a date and he was not very charming about it at all. He maybe didn’t, or did, come round the counter and grab her hand; in any event he certainly did something that terrified the lone (her sister in law who doubted her story was in the back during the incident) woman because she left the store and went to her car, leading the cousins who were now standing with Till outside to conclude she was getting a gun, which in fact she was. An old black told them to get out of there immediately so them jumped in the car.

    Till was a husky youth who even his mother admitted looked like a man. He was also extremely tough and would not apologize to the husband and brother despite them administering a severe beating. If there is any time and place to say ‘I am as good as you and I have had sex with white girls’ that was definitely not it. He was killed for being arrogant and not giving a shit about pain or death, and passing for a man. He could have told them his age, apologized and got a pistol whipping at most. Such recalcitrance in the face of an angry husband could have got him murdered just as easily in many black areas of America .

    Read More
    • Replies: @James N. Kennett

    his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.
     
    I've heard the story of Emmett Till many times, but I had never heard this ghastly detail until this week (when someone mentioned it on another post on this site).

    Of course, Emmett Till did not deserve to die. And a son is not guilty for his father's crimes - except that all white people are all guilty because some of us have great-great-great-great-grandfathers who owned slaves. It's funny how that works.
    , @Anonymous
    At that time and place a white boy could get killed for severely enough violating social norms regarding women, let alone a black one. Until recent times, and in a few places even today there are mores and customs you do not flout openly and not face serious consequences. (Nodaway County, MO is one.)

    Most whites had more sense and most blacks raised in the South had more sense too.

    Emmett was street stupid, in a sense. Shit happens to such people.

    Remember the idiot that ran off with the grizzly bears and got away with it for a while? He eventually got eaten. That was Emmett Till.

    I have little sympathy for him.
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  23. CCZ says:

    With a father who appears to be the president of historically black Elizabeth City State University (NC), Mr. Newkirk II would appear to be among “The Talented Tenth,” the black intellectuals that W.E.B. DuBois envisioned leading blacks forward into the future. But alas, Mr. Newkirk II seems unable to transcend his fixation on either “blackness” or the past. Besides, what can one expect from someone who tweets to Donald Trump, “Eat a burlap bag of d..ks.”

    https://70news.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/deranged-vann-newkirk-of-the-atlantic-tweets-to-trump-eat-a-d-n/

    Published on Jan 3, 2017
    Atlantic writer Vann R. Newkirk is about to be a father, and he’s nervous. America’s history of racial violence is something that every citizen inherits, but the consequences for black Americans remain acute. “One day I’m gonna look that boy in the eye and have to explain the same thing my father did to me, and his grandfather to him: This is who we are,” he says in this film. “This is the same America that killed Emmett Till, and the same place that gave us Jim Crow.” Now, it’s the country that elected Donald Trump to the presidency.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Talented Tenth indeed. Take a look-see at ECSU.

    http://blog.ecu.edu/sites/dailyclips/blog/2013/11/07/elizabeth-city-state-university-considers-a-slimmer-future-charlotteobserver-com/

    A deep web search will also reveal how its entire campus po po force was disbanded and taken over by the State of NC and the city police department of Elizabeth City around the same time period discussed in the above linked article. The whole campus po po force was one big Black Wild Wild West Mafia.
    , @Amanuensis
    You know, I am beginning to think that all African Americans should be sent abroad for compulsory social service, peace corps, or whatever, in the worst third world countries.
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  24. @Steve Sailer
    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is a better pundit than Ta-Nehesi Coates, and Kareem is also the NBA all-time scoring leader, which Ta-Nehesi is not.

    Like John Derbyshire, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was in a Bruce Lee film, which is a lot cooler than anything Ta-Nehesi Coates was ever associated with.

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  25. I shouted out, “Who killed Li’l Emmett T?”
    When after all, it was you and me.

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    • LOL: Mr. Rational
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  26. Luke Lea says:

    I was just down in the Delta. I went to see poverty and there was nothing to see. The blacks are all gone now, along with their classic shacks that I remember so well. Replaced by giant tractors. I think they’ve gone to Memphis and Jackson. Greenville is a ghost town.

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  27. @Sean
    The only surviving witness (possibly participant) for the actual beating and murder of Till is a black employee of the bother of husband who was seen hosing down the truck afterward. There is no question that Emmett Till leaned out the window of the car as he was being driven away from the store and whistled. According to witnesses he’d wolf whistled and shouted at the woman returning to the store from her car “Bye Baby” . That was always the version of Till’s defenders, especially his mother who insisted he whistled to conceal a stutter and had not been whistling at the woman at all. He was extremely extroverted (Southern blacks thought him arrogant and contemptuous of them) and may have been mildly retarded; his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.

    What happened before while Till was in the shop with the women was always a matter of dispute. But there is agreement from his cousins that after buying a few things and stepping outside they had a conversation with Till and challenged him to make good his boasts about sex with white girls with the large breasted but petite woman behind the counter. He went back in and a black local came out and said “You have a crazy cousin”. It seems to me that at the very least Till asked that married woman for a date and he was not very charming about it at all. He maybe didn’t, or did, come round the counter and grab her hand; in any event he certainly did something that terrified the lone (her sister in law who doubted her story was in the back during the incident) woman because she left the store and went to her car, leading the cousins who were now standing with Till outside to conclude she was getting a gun, which in fact she was. An old black told them to get out of there immediately so them jumped in the car.

    Till was a husky youth who even his mother admitted looked like a man. He was also extremely tough and would not apologize to the husband and brother despite them administering a severe beating. If there is any time and place to say ‘I am as good as you and I have had sex with white girls’ that was definitely not it. He was killed for being arrogant and not giving a shit about pain or death, and passing for a man. He could have told them his age, apologized and got a pistol whipping at most. Such recalcitrance in the face of an angry husband could have got him murdered just as easily in many black areas of America .

    his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.

    I’ve heard the story of Emmett Till many times, but I had never heard this ghastly detail until this week (when someone mentioned it on another post on this site).

    Of course, Emmett Till did not deserve to die. And a son is not guilty for his father’s crimes – except that all white people are all guilty because some of us have great-great-great-great-grandfathers who owned slaves. It’s funny how that works.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    His father was unconcerned with the all too predictable consequences of his action, and so was his son. The cousins bear a lot of responsibility because they egged him on not realizing how fearless/stupid he was . One of them on being told Till was acting crazy went in the store and grabbed him by the arm telling him it was time to go. No else one saw what happened, and if he stopped at that point Till might have been safe. Till was supposed to have not understood until he saw how scared his cousins were, but he then PUBLICLY whistled and called baby the married 21 year old mother of two Donham in the street in front of the town blacks. She did not tell anyone about it neither did her sister in law, and one of the main reasons the husband was told was the town blacks did not like Till's arrogance and did not keep his behavior a secret. The cousins had kept it a secret and so their father did not know soon enough to tell Till he had to leave town.
    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Emmett Till epitomizes the apple the smacked Newton on his noggin'.
    , @Anon
    I’m confused (and maybe dazed too) aren’t the Bryant boys good because they didn’t call the police?
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  28. conatus says:
    @ChrisZ
    This is OT, but relevant to the general topic of an ongoing culture war.

    Last night I saw the new Marvel film “Ant-Man and the Wasp,” which was a fun romp. But it also had some very heterodox features that readers here might find interesting, and even encouraging:

    > The film’s prominent theme revolves around the enduring, elevating, self-sacrificing nature of heterosexual marital love and its fruit in children.

    > A scene where a male character is “possessed” by the mind of a female is played for laughs, with no hint that effeminacy in a man might be a laudible quality. (The point is especially noteworthy because the film is set in San Francisco.)

    > A black scientist character, ostensibly set up as the figure who will provide a solution unavailable to the main (white) scientist characters, turns out instead to be an antagonist who acts out of long-held, long-past resentments. This character is called at one point “a mediocrity” without an original idea in his scientific career, and that charge is not disputed elsewhere in the film. In fact, he’s shown to be an incompetant in the field of super science, who relies on the white lead characters to solve the problems he (the black scientist) has promised but failed to solve.

    > The main “super-villain” is a mixed-race woman with a European accent, daughter of a rival white scientist who is labeled a traitor (and is shown in a flashback to be lethally incompetant), whose entire motivation is to steal the technology that the main characters have invented, and use it to her own benefit–even if it spells distaster for others. Despite her selfishness, she’s cured of her affliction by a white scientist she had previously endangered.

    > An Asian FBI agent is depicted as a prissy stick-in-the-mud who is consistently outwitted by the main characters. He harrasses Ant-Man’s civilian identity by invading his home; the latter is living under house arrest for the “crime” of loyalty to [Captain] America.

    > The film features a trio of “good-guy” ethnics (Hispanic, Russian, and Black) endearingly portrayed as 1970s-vintage stereotypes that would be at home on “Welcome Back, Kotter.” An opposing group of bad-guy ethnics includes what look like Russian and Hispanic gangsters, and a sinister East Indian. (In the film’s rare concession to elite biases, the evil ethnic gang is led by a white southern guy.)

    Maybe I’ve been spending too much time on iSteve, but the above character and plot points spoke to me as “coded” references to topics routinely under discussion here. It all strikes me as the very opposite of this year’s earlier Marvel opus, “Black Panther,” which was a hot topic in this forum five months ago. But then again, what should one expect from a movie that proudly includes the word “WASP” in its title? I’m curious to know what others here think.

    Speaking of movies I thought the Sicario sequel might have gotten some bad reviews because it was too honest in its portrayal of the border problems.
    They describe the USA as “Paradise’ says the chief mule, also”Remember they are sheep”(of the illegals).
    Josh Brolin, the American badass, says something like “The cartels make more money smuggling illegals coming to the US than drug smuggling”
    When Benecio del Toro was trying to sneak the girl back over the border he told her to say he was not her real father.
    The ending was kind of Deus Ex Machina but the movie was not ceaseless shoot’m’up. It was different and like I say, I thought the movie touched some Political Immigration topic 3rd rails and that was why some cocktail-party-dependent reviewers were negative.

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  29. Sean says:

    The closed to the public until she is dead memoir by the lady is entitled “More Than a Wolf Whistle: The Memoir of Carolyn Bryant Donham” .*

    I think it being called that is highly significant. She chose that title apparently. The holding of Donham by the waist and simulation of sex by Till seems to be what she said did not happen. But, she testified he came round the counter and grabbed her hand and I suspect that is not retracted.
    It was apparently neither her brother or her husband who shot Till dead, but a friend and fellow store owner called Melvin Campbell, and the FBI thought several other white men had been present too too. So they could have been prosecuted, never having been acquitted. Campell was 30 at the time. Donham, though already a mother of two was 21.

    *Why oh why do people talk to journalists or anyone about stuff they are or might become a suspect for. The husband brother and lady all talked to the FBI, lying to them is a criminal offence.

    In 1988, a grand jury in Hattiesburg subpoenaed an interview that one-time Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers gave the Mississippi Department of Archives and History with the understanding it wouldn’t be public until his death. Months later, a jury convicted Bowers of ordering the 1966 murder of Vernon Dahmer, and he was sentenced to life in prison. The Clarion-Ledger’s publication of excerpts of that interview helped lead to the reopening of the case against Edgar Ray Killen, who was convicted in 2005 of orchestrating the Ku Klux Klan’s killings of three civil rights workers, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner in 1964 .https://eu.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/journeytojustice/2017/02/06/could-lies-about-emmett-till-be-prosecuted/97557668/

    The relevant statute is called Emmett Till Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act!

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    • Replies: @william munny
    Unless I hear a tape, I don't believe that she recanted. Supposedly, this frail old lady decides to reveal her darkest secret to a super woke professor author she barely knows, who happens to write lots of books about how bad Jim Crow was, and who turns around and writes a book based entirely on her recanting.

    I doubt this lady remembers a thing.
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  30. @CCZ
    With a father who appears to be the president of historically black Elizabeth City State University (NC), Mr. Newkirk II would appear to be among "The Talented Tenth," the black intellectuals that W.E.B. DuBois envisioned leading blacks forward into the future. But alas, Mr. Newkirk II seems unable to transcend his fixation on either "blackness" or the past. Besides, what can one expect from someone who tweets to Donald Trump, "Eat a burlap bag of d..ks."

    https://70news.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/deranged-vann-newkirk-of-the-atlantic-tweets-to-trump-eat-a-d-n/

    Published on Jan 3, 2017
    Atlantic writer Vann R. Newkirk is about to be a father, and he’s nervous. America’s history of racial violence is something that every citizen inherits, but the consequences for black Americans remain acute. “One day I’m gonna look that boy in the eye and have to explain the same thing my father did to me, and his grandfather to him: This is who we are,” he says in this film. “This is the same America that killed Emmett Till, and the same place that gave us Jim Crow.” Now, it’s the country that elected Donald Trump to the presidency.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuZGfPcosyQ

    Talented Tenth indeed. Take a look-see at ECSU.

    http://blog.ecu.edu/sites/dailyclips/blog/2013/11/07/elizabeth-city-state-university-considers-a-slimmer-future-charlotteobserver-com/

    A deep web search will also reveal how its entire campus po po force was disbanded and taken over by the State of NC and the city police department of Elizabeth City around the same time period discussed in the above linked article. The whole campus po po force was one big Black Wild Wild West Mafia.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    A microcosm of most any negro society frankly.
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  31. Sean says:
    @James N. Kennett

    his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.
     
    I've heard the story of Emmett Till many times, but I had never heard this ghastly detail until this week (when someone mentioned it on another post on this site).

    Of course, Emmett Till did not deserve to die. And a son is not guilty for his father's crimes - except that all white people are all guilty because some of us have great-great-great-great-grandfathers who owned slaves. It's funny how that works.

    His father was unconcerned with the all too predictable consequences of his action, and so was his son. The cousins bear a lot of responsibility because they egged him on not realizing how fearless/stupid he was . One of them on being told Till was acting crazy went in the store and grabbed him by the arm telling him it was time to go. No else one saw what happened, and if he stopped at that point Till might have been safe. Till was supposed to have not understood until he saw how scared his cousins were, but he then PUBLICLY whistled and called baby the married 21 year old mother of two Donham in the street in front of the town blacks. She did not tell anyone about it neither did her sister in law, and one of the main reasons the husband was told was the town blacks did not like Till’s arrogance and did not keep his behavior a secret. The cousins had kept it a secret and so their father did not know soon enough to tell Till he had to leave town.

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  32. @James N. Kennett

    his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.
     
    I've heard the story of Emmett Till many times, but I had never heard this ghastly detail until this week (when someone mentioned it on another post on this site).

    Of course, Emmett Till did not deserve to die. And a son is not guilty for his father's crimes - except that all white people are all guilty because some of us have great-great-great-great-grandfathers who owned slaves. It's funny how that works.

    Emmett Till epitomizes the apple the smacked Newton on his noggin’.

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  33. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. X

    Fortunately, we can have show trials every day in the media of “people who think they are white.”
     
    We're going to have an actual show trial in court for the guy was was charged with TWO FELONIES for telling a Puerto Rican woman to go back home...

    https://nypost.com/2018/07/12/man-who-ranted-about-puerto-rico-shirt-charged-with-hate-crimes/

    Did he beat her, or even hit her, or even touch her?

    Okay, he is a dumbass. But should being a dumbass cost him his life?

    Our society destroys the lives of some dumbasses and lets others skate soley on the basis of skin color.
    Such a society does face condign punishment. Sooner or later.

    O then tell me, Sean O’Farrell, tell me, why you tarry?

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  34. A “reservoir” is a place where some valuable or useful commodity, such as drinking water, is stored up. In this case, the writer claims that’s basically black people. Yet he contradicts himself by saying the region is piss poor. Have writers dispensed with proofreaders, editors, and common sense itself?

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  35. @adreadline

    The Mississippi Delta is a reservoir of demographic strength—the blackest part of the blackest state in the country. But it is also one of the poorest places in America …
     
    Mississippi is one of the least populated states of the American South. The Mississippi Delta counties in particular have low population densities, and may not even be where most of the state's black population resides, not in this century. Black fertility has also dropped in recent decades. The place just ain't making a comeback, unless maybe Newkirk has some information I don't have? It is possible.

    If there is a fight to be had for the future of America, it will be waged in the Delta.
     
    Otherwise, yea, come on.

    the Magnolia State is thinly populated? Consider the heat and humidity, and forget about June, July, August – I’m talking about just plain nasty in May or October – the swampy, flat, uninteresting terrain – and besides really good black dirt – not the “magic dirt” to which Mr. Sailor often refers, just the stuff that grows things – what has MS got going for it in the way of resources? Screw Seattle, I’m moving to Biloxi! – said no hipster, ever!

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  36. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sandy Berger's Socks
    This article is just another thinly veiled appeal for reparations.

    A never ending treasure hunt in an ocean of white guilt.

    "Pay up whitey", would be more honest and succinct.

    How many white people have been raped, tortured, and murdered by blacks?
    How many of them can you name?

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    • Replies: @adreadline
    None. (If asked that question in polite company, always reply ''none''. Don't be stupid)

    Do not mention these recent incidents:

    Police in Dallas: ‘He wanted to kill white people, especially white officers’

    Gunman, Thought to Be Targeting Whites, Kills 3 in Fresno, Police Say

    Chicago torture video: 4 charged with hate crimes, kidnapping

    If they are mentioned, then 1) remember who mentioned them so to avoid that person from now on, telling others to do the same; 2) reply ''that was what the police said''; and 3) drop the subject. Chances are no one in your company knows the names of any of the people involved in those incidents, perpetrators or victims, so you won the argument already. Quit while you're ahead. (Also, I'd recommend better things to talk about in the future. How one gets into that mess of a subject to begin with, really...)
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  37. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Forbes
    Re-opening the Emmett Till case looks/sounds like another baton withwhich to bash more white heads to coincide with the cries of white privilege, white racism, white nationalism, white colonialism, and any other "isms" you can think of...

    It’s the lead story on one news site after another today.
    “BREAKING NEWS” even.

    How many years ago again??

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  38. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter
    Talented Tenth indeed. Take a look-see at ECSU.

    http://blog.ecu.edu/sites/dailyclips/blog/2013/11/07/elizabeth-city-state-university-considers-a-slimmer-future-charlotteobserver-com/

    A deep web search will also reveal how its entire campus po po force was disbanded and taken over by the State of NC and the city police department of Elizabeth City around the same time period discussed in the above linked article. The whole campus po po force was one big Black Wild Wild West Mafia.

    A microcosm of most any negro society frankly.

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  39. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    The only surviving witness (possibly participant) for the actual beating and murder of Till is a black employee of the bother of husband who was seen hosing down the truck afterward. There is no question that Emmett Till leaned out the window of the car as he was being driven away from the store and whistled. According to witnesses he’d wolf whistled and shouted at the woman returning to the store from her car “Bye Baby” . That was always the version of Till’s defenders, especially his mother who insisted he whistled to conceal a stutter and had not been whistling at the woman at all. He was extremely extroverted (Southern blacks thought him arrogant and contemptuous of them) and may have been mildly retarded; his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.

    What happened before while Till was in the shop with the women was always a matter of dispute. But there is agreement from his cousins that after buying a few things and stepping outside they had a conversation with Till and challenged him to make good his boasts about sex with white girls with the large breasted but petite woman behind the counter. He went back in and a black local came out and said “You have a crazy cousin”. It seems to me that at the very least Till asked that married woman for a date and he was not very charming about it at all. He maybe didn’t, or did, come round the counter and grab her hand; in any event he certainly did something that terrified the lone (her sister in law who doubted her story was in the back during the incident) woman because she left the store and went to her car, leading the cousins who were now standing with Till outside to conclude she was getting a gun, which in fact she was. An old black told them to get out of there immediately so them jumped in the car.

    Till was a husky youth who even his mother admitted looked like a man. He was also extremely tough and would not apologize to the husband and brother despite them administering a severe beating. If there is any time and place to say ‘I am as good as you and I have had sex with white girls’ that was definitely not it. He was killed for being arrogant and not giving a shit about pain or death, and passing for a man. He could have told them his age, apologized and got a pistol whipping at most. Such recalcitrance in the face of an angry husband could have got him murdered just as easily in many black areas of America .

    At that time and place a white boy could get killed for severely enough violating social norms regarding women, let alone a black one. Until recent times, and in a few places even today there are mores and customs you do not flout openly and not face serious consequences. (Nodaway County, MO is one.)

    Most whites had more sense and most blacks raised in the South had more sense too.

    Emmett was street stupid, in a sense. Shit happens to such people.

    Remember the idiot that ran off with the grizzly bears and got away with it for a while? He eventually got eaten. That was Emmett Till.

    I have little sympathy for him.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Sean
    In the confession to the magazine they said it was agreed beforehand what was going to be done he would get a severe pistol whipping and once he was terrified, sorry and begging that would be it. I suspect, as they said, Till just would not cry uncle, and they inflicted worse and worse injuries and eventually they had hurt him too badly for him to give a satisfactory response and the fellow Campbell said ' enough of all this' and shot Till dead. He was killed for refusing to apologize and no other reason. And that women never told anyone what Till did, so you certainly cannot blame her for his death.
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  40. Anon[890] • Disclaimer says:
    @James N. Kennett

    his father beat his mother and was given the death penalty as a soldier in Italy in WW2 for murdering two Italian women, raped them too.
     
    I've heard the story of Emmett Till many times, but I had never heard this ghastly detail until this week (when someone mentioned it on another post on this site).

    Of course, Emmett Till did not deserve to die. And a son is not guilty for his father's crimes - except that all white people are all guilty because some of us have great-great-great-great-grandfathers who owned slaves. It's funny how that works.

    I’m confused (and maybe dazed too) aren’t the Bryant boys good because they didn’t call the police?

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  41. Paul says:

    Guilt is in your blood, you “people who think they are white,” as Ta-Nehisi Coates has explained.

    In the interest of equal treatment for all, Coates should explain how much guilt is in the blood of the Bloods and the Crips and people who are black.

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  42. Paul says:

    I had forgotten that Emmett Till’s father had murdered the Italian rape victim. Regarding Emmett himself, my understanding was that in his whistling at the white woman, he was showing off for his local young relatives or friends (and they did not want involvement in it).

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  43. @Sean
    The closed to the public until she is dead memoir by the lady is entitled “More Than a Wolf Whistle: The Memoir of Carolyn Bryant Donham” .*

    I think it being called that is highly significant. She chose that title apparently. The holding of Donham by the waist and simulation of sex by Till seems to be what she said did not happen. But, she testified he came round the counter and grabbed her hand and I suspect that is not retracted.
    It was apparently neither her brother or her husband who shot Till dead, but a friend and fellow store owner called Melvin Campbell, and the FBI thought several other white men had been present too too. So they could have been prosecuted, never having been acquitted. Campell was 30 at the time. Donham, though already a mother of two was 21.

    *Why oh why do people talk to journalists or anyone about stuff they are or might become a suspect for. The husband brother and lady all talked to the FBI, lying to them is a criminal offence.


    In 1988, a grand jury in Hattiesburg subpoenaed an interview that one-time Imperial Wizard Sam Bowers gave the Mississippi Department of Archives and History with the understanding it wouldn’t be public until his death. Months later, a jury convicted Bowers of ordering the 1966 murder of Vernon Dahmer, and he was sentenced to life in prison. The Clarion-Ledger’s publication of excerpts of that interview helped lead to the reopening of the case against Edgar Ray Killen, who was convicted in 2005 of orchestrating the Ku Klux Klan's killings of three civil rights workers, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner in 1964 .https://eu.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/journeytojustice/2017/02/06/could-lies-about-emmett-till-be-prosecuted/97557668/
     
    The relevant statute is called Emmett Till Unsolved Civil Rights Crime Act!

    Unless I hear a tape, I don’t believe that she recanted. Supposedly, this frail old lady decides to reveal her darkest secret to a super woke professor author she barely knows, who happens to write lots of books about how bad Jim Crow was, and who turns around and writes a book based entirely on her recanting.

    I doubt this lady remembers a thing.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    She knew exactly what sort of history he wrote and that is why she contacted him to put the record straight about what sort of person she was, and her family agreed; they must be suffering from premature senility. T they apparently thought that because the last time it was looked at it was dropped she was in the clear for being in on Till being taken away (There was a woman voice saying "that is him" but nothing else, and her brothers sister had been in the store so it was not airtight the voice was hers). She probablly wanted to bring out, though everone knew already, that she had concealed that anything had happened from her husband, and probably that she had downplayed the incident inside the store when asked, after her husband was told by local blacks about the public wolf whistle and "Bye baby". I am not sure she now says he simply asked her for a date without touching her hand, or coming round the counter, because she felt threatened enough to go to her car for a gun. At the very least his body language and persistence frightened her (he was pulled out the store by one of his cousins)

    Perjury prosecution for what she falsely said in court, without the jury hearing, to prevent her being left aged 21 to bring up two children by herself, is now far beyond the statute of limitations. But she talked to the FBI and anything you say to them, even not on oath, is a crime if it is not true, so now she is on tape saying she lied and they have a crime they maybe could prosecute her for. The right to silence is there for a very good reason, why do people so easily get tired of exercising it?

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  44. @Anonymous
    How many white people have been raped, tortured, and murdered by blacks?
    How many of them can you name?

    None. (If asked that question in polite company, always reply ”none”. Don’t be stupid)

    Do not mention these recent incidents:

    Police in Dallas: ‘He wanted to kill white people, especially white officers’

    Gunman, Thought to Be Targeting Whites, Kills 3 in Fresno, Police Say

    Chicago torture video: 4 charged with hate crimes, kidnapping

    If they are mentioned, then 1) remember who mentioned them so to avoid that person from now on, telling others to do the same; 2) reply ”that was what the police said”; and 3) drop the subject. Chances are no one in your company knows the names of any of the people involved in those incidents, perpetrators or victims, so you won the argument already. Quit while you’re ahead. (Also, I’d recommend better things to talk about in the future. How one gets into that mess of a subject to begin with, really…)

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  45. Arclight says:

    Mr. Newkirk is actually not a bad writer when he writes about non-racial stuff. Unfortunately, lately he seems to have noticed TNC has a great hustle going and has decided to latch on to the same line of reasoning (if you can call it that) and become TNC without using the phrase ‘black bodies’ all of the time.

    Anyway, this rhetoric about the unresolved status of blacks in America deliberately elides the fact that blacks, by and large, like being culturally separate from everyone else. It’s why they give their kids names no other group does, why they retain a distinct accent/manner of speaking when the children of immigrants are indistinguishable from other Americans if you hear them on the phone/TV, and a fashion sense and musical genre that are derived from prison culture and criminal activity.

    Many do not want to assimilate into mainstream culture, they just want the economic benefits. However, unless you are an athlete or successful musician, there is no real path to economic success while keeping it real.

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  46. Sean says:
    @Anonymous
    At that time and place a white boy could get killed for severely enough violating social norms regarding women, let alone a black one. Until recent times, and in a few places even today there are mores and customs you do not flout openly and not face serious consequences. (Nodaway County, MO is one.)

    Most whites had more sense and most blacks raised in the South had more sense too.

    Emmett was street stupid, in a sense. Shit happens to such people.

    Remember the idiot that ran off with the grizzly bears and got away with it for a while? He eventually got eaten. That was Emmett Till.

    I have little sympathy for him.

    In the confession to the magazine they said it was agreed beforehand what was going to be done he would get a severe pistol whipping and once he was terrified, sorry and begging that would be it. I suspect, as they said, Till just would not cry uncle, and they inflicted worse and worse injuries and eventually they had hurt him too badly for him to give a satisfactory response and the fellow Campbell said ‘ enough of all this’ and shot Till dead. He was killed for refusing to apologize and no other reason. And that women never told anyone what Till did, so you certainly cannot blame her for his death.

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  47. Big Bill says:
    @Unzerker

    The Justice Department’s investigation of the country’s most infamous lynching case won’t implicate a society full of accomplices.
     
    Is it really a lynching when two men murder somebody and hide his body?

    According to the NAACP and fellow travelers, three offenders are necessary to perform a lynching. Death (by any means) is required. An offense against public morals is also required (e.g. “dissing”, laughing at the wrong person, “copping a feel” or anything worse).

    A husband killing a wife for smarting off is not a lynching: Not enough perpetrators. The Saint Valentine’s Day Massacre was not a lynching: It was strictly commercial, no offense against public morals. A Paki family killing a wayward daughter IS a lynching, however.

    Oddly enough, there is no public performative element required to constitute a lynching. Race is not required, either. Three perpetrators, a death, and an offense against public morals are enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    There was a bunch of them present at the beating and neither of the accused killed him, a fellow called Campbell shot Till dead, although he was probably badly hurt by then.
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  48. Sean says:
    @william munny
    Unless I hear a tape, I don't believe that she recanted. Supposedly, this frail old lady decides to reveal her darkest secret to a super woke professor author she barely knows, who happens to write lots of books about how bad Jim Crow was, and who turns around and writes a book based entirely on her recanting.

    I doubt this lady remembers a thing.

    She knew exactly what sort of history he wrote and that is why she contacted him to put the record straight about what sort of person she was, and her family agreed; they must be suffering from premature senility. T they apparently thought that because the last time it was looked at it was dropped she was in the clear for being in on Till being taken away (There was a woman voice saying “that is him” but nothing else, and her brothers sister had been in the store so it was not airtight the voice was hers). She probablly wanted to bring out, though everone knew already, that she had concealed that anything had happened from her husband, and probably that she had downplayed the incident inside the store when asked, after her husband was told by local blacks about the public wolf whistle and “Bye baby”. I am not sure she now says he simply asked her for a date without touching her hand, or coming round the counter, because she felt threatened enough to go to her car for a gun. At the very least his body language and persistence frightened her (he was pulled out the store by one of his cousins)

    Perjury prosecution for what she falsely said in court, without the jury hearing, to prevent her being left aged 21 to bring up two children by herself, is now far beyond the statute of limitations. But she talked to the FBI and anything you say to them, even not on oath, is a crime if it is not true, so now she is on tape saying she lied and they have a crime they maybe could prosecute her for. The right to silence is there for a very good reason, why do people so easily get tired of exercising it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I recall that one of the guys who testified against Leo Frank at his trial, many years later recanted his testimony, supposedly out of remorse. However he was also having major money problems at the time, which apparently ceased after he made his statement. We may wonder if there was a similar incentive involved here.
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  49. Sean says:
    @Big Bill
    According to the NAACP and fellow travelers, three offenders are necessary to perform a lynching. Death (by any means) is required. An offense against public morals is also required (e.g. "dissing", laughing at the wrong person, "copping a feel" or anything worse).

    A husband killing a wife for smarting off is not a lynching: Not enough perpetrators. The Saint Valentine's Day Massacre was not a lynching: It was strictly commercial, no offense against public morals. A Paki family killing a wayward daughter IS a lynching, however.

    Oddly enough, there is no public performative element required to constitute a lynching. Race is not required, either. Three perpetrators, a death, and an offense against public morals are enough.

    There was a bunch of them present at the beating and neither of the accused killed him, a fellow called Campbell shot Till dead, although he was probably badly hurt by then.

    Read More
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  50. Forbes says:
    @Kibernetika
    What is it about race relations in the USA? It's like those black-and-white cookies that I never liked as a kid. This friggin' binary stuff is so old-fashioned, right? Is the Left suddenly going full Gottfried von Leibnitz? That's so '80s comp-sci 101. So not holistic. Now there are quantum and other states to reckon with.

    OT, but this post made me remember this piece from NPR. Some folks really eat dirt, and they prefer "white" dirt:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/04/02/297881388/the-old-and-mysterious-practice-of-eating-dirt-revealed

    And if it's from NPR, it's safe to mention in polite society/faculty while looking concerned over a glass of red that the hosts got at Whole Foods or a local co-op. Probably has a cute label. Not two-buck chuck.

    Advice (and a potential abstract): Channel the spirit of Thomas Friedman when hanging out with the beautiful people. He's always very concerned. Apple should make emoticons of Friedman's eyebrows in their various configurations; his eyebrows are as constellations in the firmament. AI can easily figure out just how TF is feeling in any given photo of video frame, based solely on his eyebrows.

    Friedman’s ’70s era porn-stache distracts from that concern…

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  51. @ChrisZ
    This is OT, but relevant to the general topic of an ongoing culture war.

    Last night I saw the new Marvel film “Ant-Man and the Wasp,” which was a fun romp. But it also had some very heterodox features that readers here might find interesting, and even encouraging:

    > The film’s prominent theme revolves around the enduring, elevating, self-sacrificing nature of heterosexual marital love and its fruit in children.

    > A scene where a male character is “possessed” by the mind of a female is played for laughs, with no hint that effeminacy in a man might be a laudible quality. (The point is especially noteworthy because the film is set in San Francisco.)

    > A black scientist character, ostensibly set up as the figure who will provide a solution unavailable to the main (white) scientist characters, turns out instead to be an antagonist who acts out of long-held, long-past resentments. This character is called at one point “a mediocrity” without an original idea in his scientific career, and that charge is not disputed elsewhere in the film. In fact, he’s shown to be an incompetant in the field of super science, who relies on the white lead characters to solve the problems he (the black scientist) has promised but failed to solve.

    > The main “super-villain” is a mixed-race woman with a European accent, daughter of a rival white scientist who is labeled a traitor (and is shown in a flashback to be lethally incompetant), whose entire motivation is to steal the technology that the main characters have invented, and use it to her own benefit–even if it spells distaster for others. Despite her selfishness, she’s cured of her affliction by a white scientist she had previously endangered.

    > An Asian FBI agent is depicted as a prissy stick-in-the-mud who is consistently outwitted by the main characters. He harrasses Ant-Man’s civilian identity by invading his home; the latter is living under house arrest for the “crime” of loyalty to [Captain] America.

    > The film features a trio of “good-guy” ethnics (Hispanic, Russian, and Black) endearingly portrayed as 1970s-vintage stereotypes that would be at home on “Welcome Back, Kotter.” An opposing group of bad-guy ethnics includes what look like Russian and Hispanic gangsters, and a sinister East Indian. (In the film’s rare concession to elite biases, the evil ethnic gang is led by a white southern guy.)

    Maybe I’ve been spending too much time on iSteve, but the above character and plot points spoke to me as “coded” references to topics routinely under discussion here. It all strikes me as the very opposite of this year’s earlier Marvel opus, “Black Panther,” which was a hot topic in this forum five months ago. But then again, what should one expect from a movie that proudly includes the word “WASP” in its title? I’m curious to know what others here think.

    The Left became the establishment; the Saileresque Right is a counterculture right now. It’s a bit surprising it has not attracted more angsty artists coding their ill understood messages.

    We may see more of that as time passes.

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  52. The Mississippi Delta is a reservoir of demographic strength—the blackest part of the blackest state in the country.

    Write anything similar about a white Appalachian hellhole, and in no time the FBI will pay you a visit.

    But it is also one of the poorest places in America …

    No shit.

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  53. @CCZ
    With a father who appears to be the president of historically black Elizabeth City State University (NC), Mr. Newkirk II would appear to be among "The Talented Tenth," the black intellectuals that W.E.B. DuBois envisioned leading blacks forward into the future. But alas, Mr. Newkirk II seems unable to transcend his fixation on either "blackness" or the past. Besides, what can one expect from someone who tweets to Donald Trump, "Eat a burlap bag of d..ks."

    https://70news.wordpress.com/2017/06/13/deranged-vann-newkirk-of-the-atlantic-tweets-to-trump-eat-a-d-n/

    Published on Jan 3, 2017
    Atlantic writer Vann R. Newkirk is about to be a father, and he’s nervous. America’s history of racial violence is something that every citizen inherits, but the consequences for black Americans remain acute. “One day I’m gonna look that boy in the eye and have to explain the same thing my father did to me, and his grandfather to him: This is who we are,” he says in this film. “This is the same America that killed Emmett Till, and the same place that gave us Jim Crow.” Now, it’s the country that elected Donald Trump to the presidency.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuZGfPcosyQ

    You know, I am beginning to think that all African Americans should be sent abroad for compulsory social service, peace corps, or whatever, in the worst third world countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    You know, I am beginning to think that all African Americans should be sent abroad for compulsory social service, peace corps, or whatever, in the worst third world countries.
     
    I think that's a great idea. Let all the people who constantly bitch about America go live in Africa for a few years. See what a real s**thole is like.
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  54. Anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean
    She knew exactly what sort of history he wrote and that is why she contacted him to put the record straight about what sort of person she was, and her family agreed; they must be suffering from premature senility. T they apparently thought that because the last time it was looked at it was dropped she was in the clear for being in on Till being taken away (There was a woman voice saying "that is him" but nothing else, and her brothers sister had been in the store so it was not airtight the voice was hers). She probablly wanted to bring out, though everone knew already, that she had concealed that anything had happened from her husband, and probably that she had downplayed the incident inside the store when asked, after her husband was told by local blacks about the public wolf whistle and "Bye baby". I am not sure she now says he simply asked her for a date without touching her hand, or coming round the counter, because she felt threatened enough to go to her car for a gun. At the very least his body language and persistence frightened her (he was pulled out the store by one of his cousins)

    Perjury prosecution for what she falsely said in court, without the jury hearing, to prevent her being left aged 21 to bring up two children by herself, is now far beyond the statute of limitations. But she talked to the FBI and anything you say to them, even not on oath, is a crime if it is not true, so now she is on tape saying she lied and they have a crime they maybe could prosecute her for. The right to silence is there for a very good reason, why do people so easily get tired of exercising it?

    I recall that one of the guys who testified against Leo Frank at his trial, many years later recanted his testimony, supposedly out of remorse. However he was also having major money problems at the time, which apparently ceased after he made his statement. We may wonder if there was a similar incentive involved here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    If you mean the office boy he was only mentioned at the time in relation to stories that Frank was having sex with him. The witnesses against Frank were 3 blacks: his own maid, the janitor Lee and Conley (who the office boy, as an old man said had committed the murder). The main white witness against him was a girl who entered the factory minutes after Phagan that Sat to collect her wages and said his office during the time of the murder was empty although he said he had been there all afternoon without leaving. Other girls at the factory said Frank felt them up, and Phagan's friends said she was scared of Frank.

    The woman had nothing to do with her husband finding out about the incident, she was worried about the consequences of him exacting retribution (quite rightly as it turned out) on Till and so its unlikely she embellished the incident to her husband as worse that it was once he'd found out from others about the loud pubic wolf whistling and bye baby. She never lied in the sense of making it worse for Till. But after he was killed, she admitts to having then lied about it because she was faced with her husband being imprisoned; she probably wanted to make that clear. Absolute;y no one believed her and I was always told Till was killed for simply whistling. Would even a black man asking a southern woman for a date alarm her enough to make her dart out to her car out and get a gun. Remember her reminisces are entitled “More Than a Wolf Whistle: The Memoir of Carolyn Bryant Donham . I think he touched her hand or even grabbed her wrist as was part of her court story, the stuff aboutTill holding her round the waist and simulating sex is false and that came once she was faced with being a prison widow. What the husband and brother in law were told Till had done when they and their buddies went out to get him with the agreed purpose of pistol whipping and terrorising (not killing) Till was probably no more and quite possibly less than he actually had done.

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  55. Sean says:
    @Anonymous
    I recall that one of the guys who testified against Leo Frank at his trial, many years later recanted his testimony, supposedly out of remorse. However he was also having major money problems at the time, which apparently ceased after he made his statement. We may wonder if there was a similar incentive involved here.

    If you mean the office boy he was only mentioned at the time in relation to stories that Frank was having sex with him. The witnesses against Frank were 3 blacks: his own maid, the janitor Lee and Conley (who the office boy, as an old man said had committed the murder). The main white witness against him was a girl who entered the factory minutes after Phagan that Sat to collect her wages and said his office during the time of the murder was empty although he said he had been there all afternoon without leaving. Other girls at the factory said Frank felt them up, and Phagan’s friends said she was scared of Frank.

    The woman had nothing to do with her husband finding out about the incident, she was worried about the consequences of him exacting retribution (quite rightly as it turned out) on Till and so its unlikely she embellished the incident to her husband as worse that it was once he’d found out from others about the loud pubic wolf whistling and bye baby. She never lied in the sense of making it worse for Till. But after he was killed, she admitts to having then lied about it because she was faced with her husband being imprisoned; she probably wanted to make that clear. Absolute;y no one believed her and I was always told Till was killed for simply whistling. Would even a black man asking a southern woman for a date alarm her enough to make her dart out to her car out and get a gun. Remember her reminisces are entitled “More Than a Wolf Whistle: The Memoir of Carolyn Bryant Donham . I think he touched her hand or even grabbed her wrist as was part of her court story, the stuff aboutTill holding her round the waist and simulating sex is false and that came once she was faced with being a prison widow. What the husband and brother in law were told Till had done when they and their buddies went out to get him with the agreed purpose of pistol whipping and terrorising (not killing) Till was probably no more and quite possibly less than he actually had done.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Sean. Nobody here cares.
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  56. @Amanuensis
    You know, I am beginning to think that all African Americans should be sent abroad for compulsory social service, peace corps, or whatever, in the worst third world countries.

    You know, I am beginning to think that all African Americans should be sent abroad for compulsory social service, peace corps, or whatever, in the worst third world countries.

    I think that’s a great idea. Let all the people who constantly bitch about America go live in Africa for a few years. See what a real s**thole is like.

    Read More
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  57. @Sean
    If you mean the office boy he was only mentioned at the time in relation to stories that Frank was having sex with him. The witnesses against Frank were 3 blacks: his own maid, the janitor Lee and Conley (who the office boy, as an old man said had committed the murder). The main white witness against him was a girl who entered the factory minutes after Phagan that Sat to collect her wages and said his office during the time of the murder was empty although he said he had been there all afternoon without leaving. Other girls at the factory said Frank felt them up, and Phagan's friends said she was scared of Frank.

    The woman had nothing to do with her husband finding out about the incident, she was worried about the consequences of him exacting retribution (quite rightly as it turned out) on Till and so its unlikely she embellished the incident to her husband as worse that it was once he'd found out from others about the loud pubic wolf whistling and bye baby. She never lied in the sense of making it worse for Till. But after he was killed, she admitts to having then lied about it because she was faced with her husband being imprisoned; she probably wanted to make that clear. Absolute;y no one believed her and I was always told Till was killed for simply whistling. Would even a black man asking a southern woman for a date alarm her enough to make her dart out to her car out and get a gun. Remember her reminisces are entitled “More Than a Wolf Whistle: The Memoir of Carolyn Bryant Donham . I think he touched her hand or even grabbed her wrist as was part of her court story, the stuff aboutTill holding her round the waist and simulating sex is false and that came once she was faced with being a prison widow. What the husband and brother in law were told Till had done when they and their buddies went out to get him with the agreed purpose of pistol whipping and terrorising (not killing) Till was probably no more and quite possibly less than he actually had done.

    Sean. Nobody here cares.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    I'm here. You care about that.
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  58. Sean says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    Sean. Nobody here cares.

    I’m here. You care about that.

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