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From The Atlantic:

Are Jews White?

Trump’s election has reopened questions that have long seemed settled in America—including the acceptability of open discrimination against minority groups.

EMMA GREEN DEC 5, 2016

When Stephen Bannon called his website, Breitbart, the “platform for the alt-right” this summer, he was referring to a movement that promotes white nationalism and argues that the strength of the United States is tied to its ethnic European roots. Its members mostly stick to trolling online, but much of what they do isn’t original or new: Their taunts often involve vicious anti-Semitism. They make it clear that Jews are not included in their vision of a perfect, white, ethno-state.

On the opposite side of American politics, many progressive groups are preparing to mount a rebellion against Donald Trump. They see solidarity among racial minorities as their goal, and largely blame Trump’s election on racism and white supremacy. Three-quarters of American Jews voted against Trump, and many support this progressive vision. Some members of these groups, though, have singled out particular Jews for their collusion with oppressive power—criticisms which range from inflammatory condemnations of Israel to full-on conspiracies about global Jewish media and banking cabals.

Of course …

Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs

And later from The Atlantic:

Jews and the Social Construction of Race

Emma Green
9:17 AM / December 6, 2016

“Race” is a historically contingent and subjective category that is used to justify violence against minority groups. I specifically wrote about American Jews because their experiences—which are incredibly diverse and varied—show the hypocrisies and limits of these racial categories. Looking at the historical experiences of this one particular group, and the present-day tensions its faces, is a means of critiquing the way “whiteness” is used to delineate who is and isn’t considered powerful and valuable in society.

Use of the word “whiteness,” when used unironically, correlates with hostility toward whites.

Asking, “Are Jews white?,” is a way of questioning the lack of racial awareness among some American Jews. It’s meant to highlight all of the things that challenge the notion that Jews are un-complicatedly white—including the experiences of Jews of color.

 
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  1. As a WOC, White of Color, I am glad that she mentioned JOCs, Jews of Color…
    The Struggle of Color is Real…
    Ugh, my iPhone of Color is running out of juice
    Of color

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  2. Trelane says:

    Merry Christmas to all iSteve

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  3. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Apparently Bob Dole supplements his Viagra income lobbying for Taiwan:

    “Bob Dole is paid $20,000 a month to lobby for Taiwan. He admitted he ‘may have’ brokered Trump’s call.”

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/665790/bob-dole-paid-20000-month-lobby-taiwan-admitted-may-have-brokered-trumps-call

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Last thing we need is Taiwan as Israel of Asia.

    Let Taiwanese settle their own affairs with China.

    Trump would be stupid to get involved with Taiwan.
    , @anon
    Kissinger as a lobbyist for China, Dole for Taiwan; Funny to see two impotent Republicans on the opposite sides of the straits. Any day I prefer the very potent Trump as the friend of Putin/Russia.

    On thing, with all the generals filling Trump's cabinet, we can be sure, there won't be any new wars in Trump's reign.
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  4. “It’s meant to highlight all of the things that challenge the notion that Jews are un-complicatedly white—including the experiences of Jews of color.”

    Such as Sammy Davis Jr.

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    • LOL: G Pinfold
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  5. Lot says:

    Asking a bunch of non scientists about racial classification shows you are a goodwhite who believes or pretends that it is a “social construct” having nothing to do with biology.

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  6. syonredux says:

    On the opposite side of American politics, many progressive groups are preparing to mount a rebellion against Donald Trump. They see solidarity among racial minorities as their goal, and largely blame Trump’s election on racism and white supremacy. Three-quarters of American Jews voted against Trump, and many support this progressive vision. Some members of these groups, though, have singled out particular Jews for their collusion with oppressive power—criticisms which range from inflammatory condemnations of Israel to full-on conspiracies about global Jewish media and banking cabals.

    Get with the program, people! You’re only allowed to use inflammatory rhetoric when you are talking about White Christians! And the only valid conspiracy theories are the ones about WASP fraternities raping coeds as part of an initiation ritual. Read up on the Protocols of the Sons of Hengist and Horsa!

    Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs

    Yeah, you Blacks with your slavery and Jim Crow…..My granddad (or was it my great-granddad?) couldn’t get into the Porcellian! That kind of thing leaves deep wounds, man. And don’t get me started on the Golfocaust!

    “Race” is a historically contingent and subjective category that is used to justify violence against minority groups. I specifically wrote about American Jews because their experiences—which are incredibly diverse and varied

    Including people like Judah P Benjamin…..

    Looking at the historical experiences of this one particular group, and the present-day tensions its faces, is a means of critiquing the way “whiteness” is used to delineate who is and isn’t considered powerful and valuable in society.

    Look, I’m sick and tired of Blacks being the gold standard when it comes to oppression, OK?

    Asking, “Are Jews white?,” is a way of questioning the lack of racial awareness among some American Jews.

    We gotta do something about Jews like Stephen Miller, people!

    It’s meant to highlight all of the things that challenge the notion that Jews are un-complicatedly white—including the experiences of Jews of color.

    Like these Jews?

    Decades of frustration boiled over on the streets of Tel Aviv and across Israel, as thousands of Ethiopian Jews marched against discrimination in a series of protests. It wasn’t the first time this community has taken to the streets, but now they have the country’s attention, following a viral video that showed two Israeli police officers beating an Ethiopian-Israeli soldier in uniform. Both officers were fired.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/27/middleeast/israel-ethiopian-jews-protests/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    Fake Conspiracy Theories are a real problem now. People need to be guided so that they only believe in real Conspiracy Theories.
    , @Hockamaw
    Judah P Benjamin, one of history's great Jews. Immortalized on the face of the Confederate $2 bill!
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  7. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “questioning the lack of racial awareness among some American Jews”

    LOL. That’s a good one.

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  8. Famous Morgan Freeman-Mike Wallace exchange on the subject:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Famous Morgan Freeman-Mike Wallace exchange on the subject:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s
     
    Gotta love how Morgan responds to that one....
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  9. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Apparently Bob Dole supplements his Viagra income lobbying for Taiwan:

    "Bob Dole is paid $20,000 a month to lobby for Taiwan. He admitted he 'may have' brokered Trump's call."

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/665790/bob-dole-paid-20000-month-lobby-taiwan-admitted-may-have-brokered-trumps-call

    Last thing we need is Taiwan as Israel of Asia.

    Let Taiwanese settle their own affairs with China.

    Trump would be stupid to get involved with Taiwan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Last thing we need is Taiwan as Israel of Asia.

    It already is that.
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  10. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs”

    Today, you can’t even sell pistachios if you hold certain views.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Pistaccio-girl-gets-fired.html

    Most Alt Right people would be fired from most jobs based on their CREED alone.

    And colleges don’t allow White Students Clubs.

    So, if Jews were excluded from certain clubs, whites are not even allowed to create certain clubs.

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  11. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    http://forward.com/news/national/356363/speechless-rabbi-admits-losing-argument-over-racism-and-israel-to-white-sup/

    “You come here with a message of radical exclusion. My tradition teaches a message of radical inclusion, as embodied by Torah,” said Rosenberg, who attended the media event at the urging of one of his colleagues. “Would you sit down and study Torah with me and learn love?”

    Spencer shot back by comparing Israel’s vision as a homeland for Jews with his own goals for a state for whites.

    “Do you really want radical inclusion into the State of Israel?” Spencer responded, as Rosenberg said nothing. “Jews exist precisely because you did not assimilate to the gentiles… I respect that about you. I want my people to have that same sense of themselves.”

    Rosenberg refused to respond, effectively leaving unchallenged Spencer’s assertion about Jews and Israel.

    Rosenberg, the Hillel rabbi at Texas A&M University for the past three years, later said he found Spencer’s attempt to get him to defend Israel erroneous and bordering on anti-Semitic.

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  12. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Peter Beinart is giving a talk called “Jewish Power, Jewish Responsibility and Jewish Fear in the Age of Trump” at a synagogue in Encino. iSteve bait if ever there was one.

    https://www.vbs.org/vbs-college-jewish-studies-jewish-power-jewish-responsibility-and-jewish-fear-age-trump-peter

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  13. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Contradicting Jewish scholars could be regarded as anti-semitic. Emma Green should be fired immediately.

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

    “Legacy” may cause its readers discomfort. To some Jews, the notion of a genetically related people is an embarrassing remnant of early Zionism that came into vogue at the height of the Western obsession with race, in the late 19th century. Celebrating blood ancestry is divisive, they claim: The authors of “The Bell Curve” were vilified 15 years ago for suggesting that genes play a major role in IQ differences among racial groups.

    Ostrer has devoted his career to investigating these extended family trees, which help explain the genetic basis of common and rare disorders. Today, Jews remain identifiable in large measure by the 40 or so diseases we disproportionately carry, the inescapable consequence of inbreeding. He traces the fascinating history of numerous “Jewish diseases,” such as Tay-Sachs, Gaucher, Niemann-Pick, Mucolipidosis IV, as well as breast and ovarian cancer…

    Many liberal Jews maintain, at least in public, that the plethora of Jewish lawyers, doctors and comedians is the product of our cultural heritage, but the science tells a more complex story. Jewish success is a product of Jewish genes as much as of Jewish moms.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

    Read More
    • Replies: @Opinionator
    Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

    Note how the author words this in a way so as to place most of the blame on Gentiles. (Also note that the author does not capitalize "Gentile".)
    , @syonredux

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.”
     
    Until quite recent times, what we would categorize as ethnies/sub-races were routinely referred to as races: the Irish race, the German race, the English race, the Greek race, etc.
    , @Almost Missouri

    "Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in 'the tribe.'"
     
    I wonder what Emma Green refers to? Disraeli, a baptised Anglican, never made an issue of his Jewish descent, and even avoided answering questions about it. If anything, he seems to have aspired to be more English than the English, hence his leadership of the Conservative party, the party of country gentry and the working class and opposed to the urban elite Liberals.

    Of anyone on the present political scene, Disraeli most resembles Trumpist Stephen Miller.

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  14. JohnnyD says:

    As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white–mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me “white boy” or “gringo.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    You assumed wrong. As a White person, I rate Germans and Italians as non-white. You're not even close. : )
    , @Jefferson
    "As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white–mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me “white boy” or “gringo.”

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.
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  15. @Anon
    Last thing we need is Taiwan as Israel of Asia.

    Let Taiwanese settle their own affairs with China.

    Trump would be stupid to get involved with Taiwan.

    Last thing we need is Taiwan as Israel of Asia.

    It already is that.

    Read More
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  16. @anon
    Contradicting Jewish scholars could be regarded as anti-semitic. Emma Green should be fired immediately.

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

    “Legacy” may cause its readers discomfort. To some Jews, the notion of a genetically related people is an embarrassing remnant of early Zionism that came into vogue at the height of the Western obsession with race, in the late 19th century. Celebrating blood ancestry is divisive, they claim: The authors of “The Bell Curve” were vilified 15 years ago for suggesting that genes play a major role in IQ differences among racial groups.

    Ostrer has devoted his career to investigating these extended family trees, which help explain the genetic basis of common and rare disorders. Today, Jews remain identifiable in large measure by the 40 or so diseases we disproportionately carry, the inescapable consequence of inbreeding. He traces the fascinating history of numerous “Jewish diseases,” such as Tay-Sachs, Gaucher, Niemann-Pick, Mucolipidosis IV, as well as breast and ovarian cancer...

    Many liberal Jews maintain, at least in public, that the plethora of Jewish lawyers, doctors and comedians is the product of our cultural heritage, but the science tells a more complex story. Jewish success is a product of Jewish genes as much as of Jewish moms.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

    Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

    Note how the author words this in a way so as to place most of the blame on Gentiles. (Also note that the author does not capitalize “Gentile”.)

    Read More
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  17. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    Apparently Bob Dole supplements his Viagra income lobbying for Taiwan:

    "Bob Dole is paid $20,000 a month to lobby for Taiwan. He admitted he 'may have' brokered Trump's call."

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/665790/bob-dole-paid-20000-month-lobby-taiwan-admitted-may-have-brokered-trumps-call

    Kissinger as a lobbyist for China, Dole for Taiwan; Funny to see two impotent Republicans on the opposite sides of the straits. Any day I prefer the very potent Trump as the friend of Putin/Russia.

    On thing, with all the generals filling Trump’s cabinet, we can be sure, there won’t be any new wars in Trump’s reign.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    Most wars are started by Democrats anyway.
    , @Anonymous
    During the Cold War, the hawks who were itching for a hot war with the Soviets were generals like LeMay. Fortunately, they were rebuffed by the civilian leadership. The Argentine generals embarked on the disastrous Falklands War shortly after they took power. I don't think generals in leadership are necessarily less likely to go to war.
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  18. syonredux says:
    @anon
    Contradicting Jewish scholars could be regarded as anti-semitic. Emma Green should be fired immediately.

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

    “Legacy” may cause its readers discomfort. To some Jews, the notion of a genetically related people is an embarrassing remnant of early Zionism that came into vogue at the height of the Western obsession with race, in the late 19th century. Celebrating blood ancestry is divisive, they claim: The authors of “The Bell Curve” were vilified 15 years ago for suggesting that genes play a major role in IQ differences among racial groups.

    Ostrer has devoted his career to investigating these extended family trees, which help explain the genetic basis of common and rare disorders. Today, Jews remain identifiable in large measure by the 40 or so diseases we disproportionately carry, the inescapable consequence of inbreeding. He traces the fascinating history of numerous “Jewish diseases,” such as Tay-Sachs, Gaucher, Niemann-Pick, Mucolipidosis IV, as well as breast and ovarian cancer...

    Many liberal Jews maintain, at least in public, that the plethora of Jewish lawyers, doctors and comedians is the product of our cultural heritage, but the science tells a more complex story. Jewish success is a product of Jewish genes as much as of Jewish moms.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.”

    Until quite recent times, what we would categorize as ethnies/sub-races were routinely referred to as races: the Irish race, the German race, the English race, the Greek race, etc.

    Read More
    • Agree: celt darnell
    • Replies: @celt darnell
    As late as 1982, Margaret Thatcher described the British as an "island race."

    (And the Falkland Islanders, too).

    The term "race" was a remarkably flexible one until recently.

    , @ogunsiron
    Race has always been used to talk about extended families of various sizes.
    It's been used to talk about clans, tribes, groups of tribes, large ethnic groups and currently groups of ethnic groups. Race has always been used to talk about genealogically coherent groupings of human beings, with a few exceptions at the margin like blue eyed, blonde haired, 95% european "black people" in the usa. It's always had everything to do with biology and descent.
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  19. @JohnnyD
    As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white--mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me "white boy" or "gringo."

    You assumed wrong. As a White person, I rate Germans and Italians as non-white. You’re not even close. : )

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral
    Ok I know you are trolling, so anyway, if Germans are not white, then what do you classify them as then ?
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  20. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Submitted without comment:

    http://forward.com/opinion/356166/how-jews-became-white-folks-and-may-become-nonwhite-under-trump/

    How Jews Became White Folks — and May Become Nonwhite Under Trump
    by Karen Brodkin

    December 6, 2016

    Read More
    • Replies: @celt darnell
    Well, so Brodkin hopes...
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  21. neutral says:

    If jews are classified as white then what about all the other people from the midde east ? Are Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians also white then ? Where is the line drawn exactly, are people from Central Asia and Pakistan also white ? The common understanding is that people from Europe are white, and people from the middle east are not, so it is not controversial to say jews are not white.

    Besides that, if jews don’t want to be white, and the people who don’t like jews also don’t want them to be white, what is the problem here ? Seems like win-win to me.

    Read More
    • Agree: Amasius
    • Replies: @syonredux

    If jews are classified as white then what about all the other people from the midde east ?
     
    The majority of American Jews are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi Jews are from Europe, not the Middle East.

    Are Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians also white then ? Where is the line drawn exactly, are people from Central Asia and Pakistan also white ? The common understanding is that people from Europe are white, and people from the middle east are not, so it is not controversial to say jews are not white.
     
    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Besides that, if jews don’t want to be white, and the people who don’t like jews also don’t want them to be white, what is the problem here ? Seems like win-win to me.
     
    Giving POC status to White people (cf White Hispanics) is quite dangerous, as being non-White grants people a lot of privilege in the USA.
    , @ogunsiron
    I'm pretty sure that until recently, it was very easy for Assyrians, Chaldeans, Armenians and other light skinned christian middle easterners to be simply White, in the same way that Italians are whites in the usa. With the "flight from White" phenomenon, these people may find it more interesting to become POCs. If White dispossession stops and is reversed, they'll be very sorry.
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  22. neutral says:
    @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    You assumed wrong. As a White person, I rate Germans and Italians as non-white. You're not even close. : )

    Ok I know you are trolling, so anyway, if Germans are not white, then what do you classify them as then ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    "if Germans are not white, then what do you classify them as then ?".
    Humorless non English speaking sausage eaters.
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  23. SEATAF says:

    Subject matter aside, the writing is just so ugly. For years now, the Atlantic has been encouraging a mass influx of ivory-tower jargon into its pages. It’s never been worse.

    Read More
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  24. Jefferson says:
    @JohnnyD
    As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white--mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me "white boy" or "gringo."

    “As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white–mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me “white boy” or “gringo.”

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white–mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me “white boy” or “gringo.”

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.
     
    There's an idea. Let's let Blacks decide who gets POC status:

    Jewish Guy: See, my granddad couldn't get into the Porcellian. And my grand-uncle couldn't get into the WASP country club (or was that a German-Jewish club that didn't accept Mockies from Ukraine?)And then there was the lynching of Leo Frank (of course, that also had a lot to do with him being a Yankee capitalist, but still...). I'm an oppressed Person of Color in the USA.

    Heavyset Black lady: No you ain't. Next!

    Conquistador-class Hispanic: Now, I know that I have blue eyes.And red hair.And my mother is half German and half Irish. And my Cuban Dad is only half Cuban (his mother was Polish). But I'm an oppressed Person of Color.

    Heavyset Black lady: No you ain't. Next!
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  25. @neutral
    Ok I know you are trolling, so anyway, if Germans are not white, then what do you classify them as then ?

    “if Germans are not white, then what do you classify them as then ?”.
    Humorless non English speaking sausage eaters.

    Read More
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  26. utu says:

    Jewish identity comes form Judaism even for the self professed secular Jews because Judaism is more than religion. Race is secondary. It is just a piece of hardware. W/o the software it is just another piece of hardware that can be filled with some other software.

    Jews themselves have significantly modified the hardware on which they run their software in the course of their history because they know their essence is the software not the hardware. Actually this is a universal truth. Humans’ essence is the software not the hardware.

    The conflict between Jews and the others is about software. Jews want the others to run the software designed by Jews to make the others more beneficial to Jews. This is the crux of the conflict.

    The HBD crowd is preoccupied with hardware and totally unconcerned with software. They forgot about the universal truth that their essence is the software. And if the only objective of their software is to protect the hardware they are playing in a minor league. Just as well you can throw a towel.

    Get a better software. But if you can’t come up with anything, as the last resort convert to Judaism. Become Jews, not like Jews but Jews. It will work. Just adopting Jewish ideas like race purity and supremacism as Hitler did will not work. You must become Jews. Get 100% Jewish software download. Only this will protect you from Jews. But if you do not want to become Jewish try to remember who you really are, what was your original software that was corrupted and infected with viruses in last several centuries and try to restore it. And if you are successful once you get strong you might be able to replace the software that runs on Jewish hardware as well, so Jews will run on your software.

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  27. Unless I miss my guess, “White” in the “alt-right” sense largely equates to northwestern Europeans and their descendants as the core of “whiteness”, then southern Europeans and Slavs, but not Turks, not Semites; that’s more or less my own definition (and ancestry) as well. My judgment as to whether or not “tribal” Jewish folk are white is that if they perceive themselves as identifying with “White” values and consider themselves foremost as citizens of a European or European-derived nation and secondarily as Jewish, then yes, they are White. If they consider themselves Jewish first and foremost and more in sympathy with the national interests of Israel than of the country in which they live, then no, they are not, no matter how much they appear to have “assimilated”. This second group should be considered as aliens given that in essence, that’s the way they see themselves.

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  28. Luke Lea says: • Website

    Steve writes, “Use of the word “whiteness,” when used unironically, correlates with hostility toward whites.”

    In that case why not use the more accurate descriptor “European Americans” in line with African-Americans, Asian Americans, Jewish (or Ashkenazi) Americans, Italian Americans, Anglo Americans, Mexican Americans, native Americans, etc? Paint the world as it is, not in black and white. Don’t major media organizations have style sheets for stuff like this?

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  29. jake says:

    There is a growing movement to have Jews classified as something other than White. Why? Because then people can continue to expand anti-white laws and rhetoric without fear of any Jewish backlash.

    Liberal and a majority of Neocon Jews seem happy to have the PC/Cultural Marxist system of hating whitey run its course. The end game would be that many Gentile whites would be serfs in everything but name and the specifics of, say, Russia in the 18th and 19th centuries. What they do not see that someone like David Horowitz does is that the percentage of non=white Moslems that would love to exterminate all Jews that do not submit to Mohammad is at least double what it was 50 years ago and likely to double again over the next half century or less.

    The only people in the world who have a ‘reason’ to defend Jews, even when Jews themselves cause much of the trouble they face, are Christians. That is because of the flesh of Jesus. Quite simply, the more that Leftists destroy the white Gentile middle class and strip them of political power and cultural expression, the more that islam rises vis a vis what used to be Christendom. which means making imminent the major Islamic thrust to punish worldwide Jewry for everything back to Abraham and Ishmael.

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  30. Hersh says:

    What do you think about Jared and Ivanka, Steve? Pretty hard to miss that we’re getting a message from the MSM that they’re the real brains behind Trump, the Jewish brains behind Trump.

    IMO, its ridiculous. Trump’s outreach to evangelical Christians had nothing to do with Jared and Ivanka. Evangelicals were 26% of the electorate and Trump won 81% of them, more than Romney, McCain, Bush. Clinton got less of them than Obama got.

    I wonder how Melania feels about Ivanka usurping the First-Lady-issue-advocacy role.

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  31. “Are Jews White?”

    As powerful as they are, Jews will not be the ones to answer that question. It will be decided by blacks, Hispanics, NE Asians and Indians.

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  32. @anon
    Contradicting Jewish scholars could be regarded as anti-semitic. Emma Green should be fired immediately.

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” Scholars from Josephus to Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in “the tribe.”

    “Legacy” may cause its readers discomfort. To some Jews, the notion of a genetically related people is an embarrassing remnant of early Zionism that came into vogue at the height of the Western obsession with race, in the late 19th century. Celebrating blood ancestry is divisive, they claim: The authors of “The Bell Curve” were vilified 15 years ago for suggesting that genes play a major role in IQ differences among racial groups.

    Ostrer has devoted his career to investigating these extended family trees, which help explain the genetic basis of common and rare disorders. Today, Jews remain identifiable in large measure by the 40 or so diseases we disproportionately carry, the inescapable consequence of inbreeding. He traces the fascinating history of numerous “Jewish diseases,” such as Tay-Sachs, Gaucher, Niemann-Pick, Mucolipidosis IV, as well as breast and ovarian cancer...

    Many liberal Jews maintain, at least in public, that the plethora of Jewish lawyers, doctors and comedians is the product of our cultural heritage, but the science tells a more complex story. Jewish success is a product of Jewish genes as much as of Jewish moms.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664

    “Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in ‘the tribe.’”

    I wonder what Emma Green refers to? Disraeli, a baptised Anglican, never made an issue of his Jewish descent, and even avoided answering questions about it. If anything, he seems to have aspired to be more English than the English, hence his leadership of the Conservative party, the party of country gentry and the working class and opposed to the urban elite Liberals.

    Of anyone on the present political scene, Disraeli most resembles Trumpist Stephen Miller.

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    • Replies: @John Gruskos
    Under Disraeli's leadership, the "conservatives" became the party of imperialism and constant confrontation with Russia, with a bizarre tendency to always unquestioningly take the side of the Ottoman Empire in all confrontations with Balkan nations and Christian minorities, and also a tendency to meddle in the internal politics of Romania and Russia for the benefit of the Jews.

    In other words, Disraeli was the neocon of 19th century Britain.
    , @utu
    Benjamin Disraeli was born to a Jewish family in 1804. Despite his early baptism (at the age of 12), his contemporaries continued to see him as Jewish. Disraeli alternately evaded and relished his heritage. When his most undiplomatic enemy, Daniel O'Connell, attacked him in the House of Commons -- referring to Disraeli's Jewish lineage -- Disraeli answered "Yes, I am a Jew. And when the ancestors of the right honorable gentlemen were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.
    _______
    Disraeli was Jewish suprematist his baptism notwithstanding. Check out his novel Coningsby and the character Sidonia which is believe to be a cross between Lionel de Rothschild and Disraeli himself. Anyway, Disraeli is excellent example of Jewishness of a baptized Jew.
    , @Lot
    Both major UK parties in that era were to the right of the GOP however, and did not much differ ideologically.

    Conservatives at one point were slightly more in favor of toleration due to the many Catholic and crypto-Catholic rural nobles, but that was not an active issue in that era.

    The other time a Jew came close to PM was the Liberal Earl of Rosebery, who married a Rothschild and had four half Jewish children.

    , @jake
    Disraeli as novelist did indeed lecture his readers on the need to very sensitive to any hostility to Jews. He was smart enough to leave those views out of direct political activism, but they were central to his being.
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  33. @anon
    Kissinger as a lobbyist for China, Dole for Taiwan; Funny to see two impotent Republicans on the opposite sides of the straits. Any day I prefer the very potent Trump as the friend of Putin/Russia.

    On thing, with all the generals filling Trump's cabinet, we can be sure, there won't be any new wars in Trump's reign.

    Most wars are started by Democrats anyway.

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  34. In the real world, race is rooted in genetics but always means more than that. Not only biology, –genetic links, physical structure and appearance–but identity and affiliation and history.

    Part of the problem comes from fuzzy thinking about Whiteness and Caucasianity. Caucasians come in two basic forms: NorthAfrican/WestAsian Caucasians and European Caucasians. Only Europeans are White. The others are what I call Bronze.

    Europeans are the native peoples of what was European Christendom: the peoples of Europe who were also Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant. (Hence, I would exclude Jews and Gypsies, as well as Balkan Muslims, but included Georgians and Armenians.) Present religious belief/practice is not at issue; history and identity formation is. It is through Christianity that all these peoples share the common Hellenic roots which lie at the base of White culture and civilization. Even non-Christian EuroRight thinker Roman Barnard admits that it was Christianity which created a common European identity for these peoples.

    The NorthAfrican/West Asian Caucasians include the Copts, the Semites (Jews and Arabs, etc), the Turkic and Iranic peoples and the North Indians. The Copts, though Christian, are not European; all the rest are historically non-Christian.

    Jews in particular: their homeland –reiterated each year at Passover with “Next Year In Jerusalem”– is in western Asia, not Europe. And throughout their 2000 year sojourn among the host peoples of Europe, they have always defined themselves as Other. They can and do speak and write of “how Europe has treated us.” No European could think or speak that way.

    So while Ashkenazi Jews are informally White (in a race riot, they’d get beat up along with the Swedes), in terms of both biological origin and, most importantly, self-identity and affiliation, they are non-White Caucasians.

    IMHO.

    PS. I also use the Tonto’s Razor approach to this question: If you can credibly be accused of racism by a Black, Latino or Asian, then you’re pretty White. Jews are on the fence here, but it’s clear that Arabs, Turks, Iranians, and Indians would all be considered non-White…after all, any of them can accuse a EuropeanWhite of “racism.”

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  35. Mr. Anon says:
    @syonredux

    On the opposite side of American politics, many progressive groups are preparing to mount a rebellion against Donald Trump. They see solidarity among racial minorities as their goal, and largely blame Trump’s election on racism and white supremacy. Three-quarters of American Jews voted against Trump, and many support this progressive vision. Some members of these groups, though, have singled out particular Jews for their collusion with oppressive power—criticisms which range from inflammatory condemnations of Israel to full-on conspiracies about global Jewish media and banking cabals.

     

    Get with the program, people! You're only allowed to use inflammatory rhetoric when you are talking about White Christians! And the only valid conspiracy theories are the ones about WASP fraternities raping coeds as part of an initiation ritual. Read up on the Protocols of the Sons of Hengist and Horsa!

    Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs
     
    Yeah, you Blacks with your slavery and Jim Crow.....My granddad (or was it my great-granddad?) couldn't get into the Porcellian! That kind of thing leaves deep wounds, man. And don't get me started on the Golfocaust!

    “Race” is a historically contingent and subjective category that is used to justify violence against minority groups. I specifically wrote about American Jews because their experiences—which are incredibly diverse and varied
     
    Including people like Judah P Benjamin.....

    Looking at the historical experiences of this one particular group, and the present-day tensions its faces, is a means of critiquing the way “whiteness” is used to delineate who is and isn’t considered powerful and valuable in society.
     
    Look, I'm sick and tired of Blacks being the gold standard when it comes to oppression, OK?

    Asking, “Are Jews white?,” is a way of questioning the lack of racial awareness among some American Jews.
     
    We gotta do something about Jews like Stephen Miller, people!

    It’s meant to highlight all of the things that challenge the notion that Jews are un-complicatedly white—including the experiences of Jews of color.
     
    Like these Jews?

    Decades of frustration boiled over on the streets of Tel Aviv and across Israel, as thousands of Ethiopian Jews marched against discrimination in a series of protests. It wasn't the first time this community has taken to the streets, but now they have the country's attention, following a viral video that showed two Israeli police officers beating an Ethiopian-Israeli soldier in uniform. Both officers were fired.

     

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/27/middleeast/israel-ethiopian-jews-protests/

    Fake Conspiracy Theories are a real problem now. People need to be guided so that they only believe in real Conspiracy Theories.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    We need to get back to Officially Approved Conspiracy Theories, like the Obama Administration's denunciation of America's public school teachers as racists punishing little black boys more than little Asian girls for no reason at all. That's Science.
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  36. Travis says:

    The White House wants to add new racial category for Middle Eastern people. Under current law, people from the Middle East are considered white. Under the proposal, the new Middle East and North African designation — or MENA, as it’s called by population scholars — is broader in concept than Arab (an ethnicity) or Muslim (a religion). It would include anyone from a region of the world stretching from Morocco to Iran, and including Syrian and Coptic Christians, Israeli Jews and other religious minorities.

    Will be interesting if this new Racial category become Law in the US….The Harvard Student body then becomes just 33% White, 26% MENA, 21% Asian, 10% Black, 10% Hispanic

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  37. Tulip says:

    What is all this “whiteness” business? The question is not whether the Jews are really Caucasians (they are), it is whether they are Anglo-Saxon Protestants (they aren’t). Of course, neither are the Italians, the Irish, the Poles, or the Slavs for that matter.

    It is interesting this line of reflection being so prominent in the Atlantic. Of course, the Holocaust and the “Golfocaust” was just as hard on the Poles and the Slavs, but for some reason, no one seems to care about these nationalities. It is as if only certain nationalities are privileged enough to get their “victim stories” extolled by the MSM. [Because the Potato Famine was so benign compared to not getting the invite to the country club? Or was it just being a gruel slurping feudal serf was such a better gig than "meat-everyday" Southern slavery?]

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  38. @Almost Missouri

    "Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in 'the tribe.'"
     
    I wonder what Emma Green refers to? Disraeli, a baptised Anglican, never made an issue of his Jewish descent, and even avoided answering questions about it. If anything, he seems to have aspired to be more English than the English, hence his leadership of the Conservative party, the party of country gentry and the working class and opposed to the urban elite Liberals.

    Of anyone on the present political scene, Disraeli most resembles Trumpist Stephen Miller.

    Under Disraeli’s leadership, the “conservatives” became the party of imperialism and constant confrontation with Russia, with a bizarre tendency to always unquestioningly take the side of the Ottoman Empire in all confrontations with Balkan nations and Christian minorities, and also a tendency to meddle in the internal politics of Romania and Russia for the benefit of the Jews.

    In other words, Disraeli was the neocon of 19th century Britain.

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  39. utu says:
    @Almost Missouri

    "Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in 'the tribe.'"
     
    I wonder what Emma Green refers to? Disraeli, a baptised Anglican, never made an issue of his Jewish descent, and even avoided answering questions about it. If anything, he seems to have aspired to be more English than the English, hence his leadership of the Conservative party, the party of country gentry and the working class and opposed to the urban elite Liberals.

    Of anyone on the present political scene, Disraeli most resembles Trumpist Stephen Miller.

    Benjamin Disraeli was born to a Jewish family in 1804. Despite his early baptism (at the age of 12), his contemporaries continued to see him as Jewish. Disraeli alternately evaded and relished his heritage. When his most undiplomatic enemy, Daniel O’Connell, attacked him in the House of Commons — referring to Disraeli’s Jewish lineage — Disraeli answered “Yes, I am a Jew. And when the ancestors of the right honorable gentlemen were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.
    _______
    Disraeli was Jewish suprematist his baptism notwithstanding. Check out his novel Coningsby and the character Sidonia which is believe to be a cross between Lionel de Rothschild and Disraeli himself. Anyway, Disraeli is excellent example of Jewishness of a baptized Jew.

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  40. Dennis Prager University offers an insight into Jewish “color.” Ignore the title.

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  41. I’m an Ashkenazi Jew whose family comes from the Deep South. We knew we were White and so did everyone else. In the South, any other alternative to the above was impossible. The Episcopalian social elite may have looked down on Ashkenazi Jews a bit, but they looked down on poor white Baptists from the country even more. This was not racial. And they looked down on the wealthy German Jews not at all. My proof? If a Jew converted (especially a German or Sephardic Jew) they could marry into an Episcopalian family and many did.

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  42. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    Kissinger as a lobbyist for China, Dole for Taiwan; Funny to see two impotent Republicans on the opposite sides of the straits. Any day I prefer the very potent Trump as the friend of Putin/Russia.

    On thing, with all the generals filling Trump's cabinet, we can be sure, there won't be any new wars in Trump's reign.

    During the Cold War, the hawks who were itching for a hot war with the Soviets were generals like LeMay. Fortunately, they were rebuffed by the civilian leadership. The Argentine generals embarked on the disastrous Falklands War shortly after they took power. I don’t think generals in leadership are necessarily less likely to go to war.

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    • Replies: @Desiderius

    During the Cold War, the hawks who were itching for a hot war with the Soviets were generals like LeMay.
     
    Today's LeMays are all on the civilian side. They're too busy fining bakeries and harassing nuns to get us into any wars.
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  43. Lot says:
    @Almost Missouri

    "Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in 'the tribe.'"
     
    I wonder what Emma Green refers to? Disraeli, a baptised Anglican, never made an issue of his Jewish descent, and even avoided answering questions about it. If anything, he seems to have aspired to be more English than the English, hence his leadership of the Conservative party, the party of country gentry and the working class and opposed to the urban elite Liberals.

    Of anyone on the present political scene, Disraeli most resembles Trumpist Stephen Miller.

    Both major UK parties in that era were to the right of the GOP however, and did not much differ ideologically.

    Conservatives at one point were slightly more in favor of toleration due to the many Catholic and crypto-Catholic rural nobles, but that was not an active issue in that era.

    The other time a Jew came close to PM was the Liberal Earl of Rosebery, who married a Rothschild and had four half Jewish children.

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  44. jake says:
    @Almost Missouri

    "Disraeli proudly proclaimed their membership in 'the tribe.'"
     
    I wonder what Emma Green refers to? Disraeli, a baptised Anglican, never made an issue of his Jewish descent, and even avoided answering questions about it. If anything, he seems to have aspired to be more English than the English, hence his leadership of the Conservative party, the party of country gentry and the working class and opposed to the urban elite Liberals.

    Of anyone on the present political scene, Disraeli most resembles Trumpist Stephen Miller.

    Disraeli as novelist did indeed lecture his readers on the need to very sensitive to any hostility to Jews. He was smart enough to leave those views out of direct political activism, but they were central to his being.

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  45. @Anonymous
    Submitted without comment:

    http://forward.com/opinion/356166/how-jews-became-white-folks-and-may-become-nonwhite-under-trump/


    How Jews Became White Folks — and May Become Nonwhite Under Trump
    by Karen Brodkin

    December 6, 2016
     

    Well, so Brodkin hopes…

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  46. @syonredux

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.”
     
    Until quite recent times, what we would categorize as ethnies/sub-races were routinely referred to as races: the Irish race, the German race, the English race, the Greek race, etc.

    As late as 1982, Margaret Thatcher described the British as an “island race.”

    (And the Falkland Islanders, too).

    The term “race” was a remarkably flexible one until recently.

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  47. Svigor says:

    I would say that the only truly White people are the people who are considered White, even if they don’t want to be considered White. I’m not sure Jews qualify.

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.

    Has Jewish Howard Stern ever said whether they were right to do so?

    Jews themselves have significantly modified the hardware on which they run their software in the course of their history because they know their essence is the software not the hardware. Actually this is a universal truth. Humans’ essence is the software not the hardware.

    No, the hardware is important, too.

    The HBD crowd is preoccupied with hardware and totally unconcerned with software.

    No, software is important, too.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I would say that the only truly White people are the people who are considered White, even if they don’t want to be considered White. I’m not sure Jews qualify.
     
    That's why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here's Goldie Hawn.She's not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She's Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he's White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He's Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!
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  48. syonredux says:
    @neutral
    If jews are classified as white then what about all the other people from the midde east ? Are Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians also white then ? Where is the line drawn exactly, are people from Central Asia and Pakistan also white ? The common understanding is that people from Europe are white, and people from the middle east are not, so it is not controversial to say jews are not white.

    Besides that, if jews don't want to be white, and the people who don't like jews also don't want them to be white, what is the problem here ? Seems like win-win to me.

    If jews are classified as white then what about all the other people from the midde east ?

    The majority of American Jews are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi Jews are from Europe, not the Middle East.

    Are Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians also white then ? Where is the line drawn exactly, are people from Central Asia and Pakistan also white ? The common understanding is that people from Europe are white, and people from the middle east are not, so it is not controversial to say jews are not white.

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Besides that, if jews don’t want to be white, and the people who don’t like jews also don’t want them to be white, what is the problem here ? Seems like win-win to me.

    Giving POC status to White people (cf White Hispanics) is quite dangerous, as being non-White grants people a lot of privilege in the USA.

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    • Replies: @Amasius

    The majority of American Jews are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi Jews are from Europe, not the Middle East.

     

    If a black African takes a White woman, does that make their child a White European? Ashkenazi jews are Semitic people from the Middle East who have appropriated some European DNA, 20 to 30% according to Nicholas Wade. European is White, White is European.

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

     

    Half-Asians often "scan" as White, too. Does that make them White? Is it really just looks? If you can pass as White then you're White? What about the reality?

    Giving POC status to White people (cf White Hispanics) is quite dangerous, as being non-White grants people a lot of privilege in the USA.

     

    Jews have played the game since the beginning. We're a poysecuted minority! But we're also White, aren't White people just horrible? See Tim Wise.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Birds,_the_Beasts,_and_the_Bat

    The Birds, the Beasts, and the Bat

    The Birds waged war with the Beasts, and each were by turns the conquerors. A Bat, fearing the uncertain issues of the fight, always fought on the side which he felt was the strongest. When peace was proclaimed, his deceitful conduct was apparent to both combatants. Therefore being condemned by each for his treachery, he was driven forth from the light of day, and henceforth concealed himself in dark hiding-places, flying always alone and at night.
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  49. syonredux says:
    @Opinionator
    Famous Morgan Freeman-Mike Wallace exchange on the subject:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

    Famous Morgan Freeman-Mike Wallace exchange on the subject:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

    Gotta love how Morgan responds to that one….

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  50. syonredux says:
    @Jefferson
    "As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white–mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me “white boy” or “gringo.”

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.

    “As an Ashkenazi Jew, I always assumed that I was white–mainly because my black, Hispanic, and Asian classmates would always call me “white boy” or “gringo.”

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.

    There’s an idea. Let’s let Blacks decide who gets POC status:

    Jewish Guy: See, my granddad couldn’t get into the Porcellian. And my grand-uncle couldn’t get into the WASP country club (or was that a German-Jewish club that didn’t accept Mockies from Ukraine?)And then there was the lynching of Leo Frank (of course, that also had a lot to do with him being a Yankee capitalist, but still…). I’m an oppressed Person of Color in the USA.

    Heavyset Black lady: No you ain’t. Next!

    Conquistador-class Hispanic: Now, I know that I have blue eyes.And red hair.And my mother is half German and half Irish. And my Cuban Dad is only half Cuban (his mother was Polish). But I’m an oppressed Person of Color.

    Heavyset Black lady: No you ain’t. Next!

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  51. @Mr. Anon
    Fake Conspiracy Theories are a real problem now. People need to be guided so that they only believe in real Conspiracy Theories.

    We need to get back to Officially Approved Conspiracy Theories, like the Obama Administration’s denunciation of America’s public school teachers as racists punishing little black boys more than little Asian girls for no reason at all. That’s Science.

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  52. syonredux says:
    @Svigor
    I would say that the only truly White people are the people who are considered White, even if they don't want to be considered White. I'm not sure Jews qualify.

    Jewish Howard Stern said he was also called a Cracka many times when he attended a predominantly Black public school.
     
    Has Jewish Howard Stern ever said whether they were right to do so?

    Jews themselves have significantly modified the hardware on which they run their software in the course of their history because they know their essence is the software not the hardware. Actually this is a universal truth. Humans’ essence is the software not the hardware.
     
    No, the hardware is important, too.

    The HBD crowd is preoccupied with hardware and totally unconcerned with software.
     
    No, software is important, too.

    I would say that the only truly White people are the people who are considered White, even if they don’t want to be considered White. I’m not sure Jews qualify.

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Amasius

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

     

    Yes, let us rely on totally uninformed, low IQ black people to determine matters of crucial importance. (Shaking my head.)
    , @Hockamaw

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!
     
    Ha! I think you're on to something here.
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  53. Amasius says:
    @syonredux

    If jews are classified as white then what about all the other people from the midde east ?
     
    The majority of American Jews are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi Jews are from Europe, not the Middle East.

    Are Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians also white then ? Where is the line drawn exactly, are people from Central Asia and Pakistan also white ? The common understanding is that people from Europe are white, and people from the middle east are not, so it is not controversial to say jews are not white.
     
    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Besides that, if jews don’t want to be white, and the people who don’t like jews also don’t want them to be white, what is the problem here ? Seems like win-win to me.
     
    Giving POC status to White people (cf White Hispanics) is quite dangerous, as being non-White grants people a lot of privilege in the USA.

    The majority of American Jews are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi Jews are from Europe, not the Middle East.

    If a black African takes a White woman, does that make their child a White European? Ashkenazi jews are Semitic people from the Middle East who have appropriated some European DNA, 20 to 30% according to Nicholas Wade. European is White, White is European.

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Half-Asians often “scan” as White, too. Does that make them White? Is it really just looks? If you can pass as White then you’re White? What about the reality?

    Giving POC status to White people (cf White Hispanics) is quite dangerous, as being non-White grants people a lot of privilege in the USA.

    Jews have played the game since the beginning. We’re a poysecuted minority! But we’re also White, aren’t White people just horrible? See Tim Wise.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Birds,_the_Beasts,_and_the_Bat

    The Birds, the Beasts, and the Bat

    The Birds waged war with the Beasts, and each were by turns the conquerors. A Bat, fearing the uncertain issues of the fight, always fought on the side which he felt was the strongest. When peace was proclaimed, his deceitful conduct was apparent to both combatants. Therefore being condemned by each for his treachery, he was driven forth from the light of day, and henceforth concealed himself in dark hiding-places, flying always alone and at night.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    If a black African takes a White woman, does that make their child a White European?
     
    Bad analogy. Sub-Saharan Africans are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.

    Ashkenazi jews are Semitic people from the Middle East who have appropriated some European DNA, 20 to 30% according to Nicholas Wade. European is White, White is European.
     
    Wade's wrong. Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 50% European and 50% Middle Eastern:

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%.
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Half-Asians often “scan” as White, too. Does that make them White? Is it really just looks? If you can pass as White then you’re White? What about the reality?
     
    Bad comparison. East Asians are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.
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  54. Amasius says:
    @syonredux

    I would say that the only truly White people are the people who are considered White, even if they don’t want to be considered White. I’m not sure Jews qualify.
     
    That's why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here's Goldie Hawn.She's not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She's Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he's White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He's Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

    Yes, let us rely on totally uninformed, low IQ black people to determine matters of crucial importance. (Shaking my head.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Yes, let us rely on totally uninformed, low IQ black people to determine matters of crucial importance. (Shaking my head.)
     
    Hey, Blacks are pretty good at spotting Whitey....
    , @syonredux
    For example, note how those Black thugs who were out Polar Bear Hunting easily saw through Matthew Yglesias' "I'm-not-really-White-I'm-actually-a-Man-of-Color" facade....
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  55. @Anonymous
    During the Cold War, the hawks who were itching for a hot war with the Soviets were generals like LeMay. Fortunately, they were rebuffed by the civilian leadership. The Argentine generals embarked on the disastrous Falklands War shortly after they took power. I don't think generals in leadership are necessarily less likely to go to war.

    During the Cold War, the hawks who were itching for a hot war with the Soviets were generals like LeMay.

    Today’s LeMays are all on the civilian side. They’re too busy fining bakeries and harassing nuns to get us into any wars.

    Read More
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  56. syonredux says:
    @Amasius

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

     

    Yes, let us rely on totally uninformed, low IQ black people to determine matters of crucial importance. (Shaking my head.)

    Yes, let us rely on totally uninformed, low IQ black people to determine matters of crucial importance. (Shaking my head.)

    Hey, Blacks are pretty good at spotting Whitey….

    Read More
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  57. syonredux says:
    @Amasius

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

     

    Yes, let us rely on totally uninformed, low IQ black people to determine matters of crucial importance. (Shaking my head.)

    For example, note how those Black thugs who were out Polar Bear Hunting easily saw through Matthew Yglesias’ “I’m-not-really-White-I’m-actually-a-Man-of-Color” facade….

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  58. Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  59. Are Jews white? When it suits them, yes. Otherwise, they aren’t. Why does anyone need to point that out?

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    Are Jews white? When it suits them, yes. Otherwise, they aren’t. Why does anyone need to point that out?
     
    I once had colleague tell me (and she was being serious) that the Irish only became White when Kennedy was elected President....
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  60. syonredux says:
    @OilcanFloyd
    Are Jews white? When it suits them, yes. Otherwise, they aren't. Why does anyone need to point that out?

    Are Jews white? When it suits them, yes. Otherwise, they aren’t. Why does anyone need to point that out?

    I once had colleague tell me (and she was being serious) that the Irish only became White when Kennedy was elected President….

    Read More
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  61. Hockamaw says:
    @syonredux

    On the opposite side of American politics, many progressive groups are preparing to mount a rebellion against Donald Trump. They see solidarity among racial minorities as their goal, and largely blame Trump’s election on racism and white supremacy. Three-quarters of American Jews voted against Trump, and many support this progressive vision. Some members of these groups, though, have singled out particular Jews for their collusion with oppressive power—criticisms which range from inflammatory condemnations of Israel to full-on conspiracies about global Jewish media and banking cabals.

     

    Get with the program, people! You're only allowed to use inflammatory rhetoric when you are talking about White Christians! And the only valid conspiracy theories are the ones about WASP fraternities raping coeds as part of an initiation ritual. Read up on the Protocols of the Sons of Hengist and Horsa!

    Jews were often excluded from taking certain jobs, joining certain clubs
     
    Yeah, you Blacks with your slavery and Jim Crow.....My granddad (or was it my great-granddad?) couldn't get into the Porcellian! That kind of thing leaves deep wounds, man. And don't get me started on the Golfocaust!

    “Race” is a historically contingent and subjective category that is used to justify violence against minority groups. I specifically wrote about American Jews because their experiences—which are incredibly diverse and varied
     
    Including people like Judah P Benjamin.....

    Looking at the historical experiences of this one particular group, and the present-day tensions its faces, is a means of critiquing the way “whiteness” is used to delineate who is and isn’t considered powerful and valuable in society.
     
    Look, I'm sick and tired of Blacks being the gold standard when it comes to oppression, OK?

    Asking, “Are Jews white?,” is a way of questioning the lack of racial awareness among some American Jews.
     
    We gotta do something about Jews like Stephen Miller, people!

    It’s meant to highlight all of the things that challenge the notion that Jews are un-complicatedly white—including the experiences of Jews of color.
     
    Like these Jews?

    Decades of frustration boiled over on the streets of Tel Aviv and across Israel, as thousands of Ethiopian Jews marched against discrimination in a series of protests. It wasn't the first time this community has taken to the streets, but now they have the country's attention, following a viral video that showed two Israeli police officers beating an Ethiopian-Israeli soldier in uniform. Both officers were fired.

     

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/27/middleeast/israel-ethiopian-jews-protests/

    Judah P Benjamin, one of history’s great Jews. Immortalized on the face of the Confederate $2 bill!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/judah-p-benjamin-whiteness-crisis/

    Recent research, however, has suggested that perhaps Benjamin should have been on the Confederacy's three-dollar bill.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-gay-jew-who-made-the-confederacy-tick/

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  62. Hockamaw says:
    @syonredux

    I would say that the only truly White people are the people who are considered White, even if they don’t want to be considered White. I’m not sure Jews qualify.
     
    That's why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here's Goldie Hawn.She's not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She's Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he's White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He's Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

    That’s why we need to have Blacks parse this out for us:

    STORMFRONT guy: Here’s Goldie Hawn.She’s not White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You crazy. She’s Whiter than White. Next!

    DAILY STORMER: Harrison Ford. No way he’s White.

    Heavyset Black lady: You blind. He’s Whiter than Casper in a snowstorm. Next!

    Ha! I think you’re on to something here.

    Read More
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  63. @Hockamaw
    Judah P Benjamin, one of history's great Jews. Immortalized on the face of the Confederate $2 bill!

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/judah-p-benjamin-whiteness-crisis/

    Recent research, however, has suggested that perhaps Benjamin should have been on the Confederacy’s three-dollar bill.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-gay-jew-who-made-the-confederacy-tick/

    Read More
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  64. SFG says:

    I just go with the pink skin thing. I take Tim Wise as seriously when he says he’s not white as I do when Caitlyn Jenner says he’s a woman. I mean, a male feminist doesn’t stop being a man because he works against men. Hugo Schwyzer still had balls and a dick, even if he wished he didn’t.

    Of course there are borderline cases. There always are.

    Read More
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  65. ogunsiron says:
    @syonredux

    For most of the 3,000-year history of the Jewish people, the notion of what came to be known as “Jewish exceptionalism” was hardly controversial. Because of our history of inmarriage and cultural isolation, imposed or self-selected, Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.”
     
    Until quite recent times, what we would categorize as ethnies/sub-races were routinely referred to as races: the Irish race, the German race, the English race, the Greek race, etc.

    Race has always been used to talk about extended families of various sizes.
    It’s been used to talk about clans, tribes, groups of tribes, large ethnic groups and currently groups of ethnic groups. Race has always been used to talk about genealogically coherent groupings of human beings, with a few exceptions at the margin like blue eyed, blonde haired, 95% european “black people” in the usa. It’s always had everything to do with biology and descent.

    Read More
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  66. ogunsiron says:
    @neutral
    If jews are classified as white then what about all the other people from the midde east ? Are Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Iranians also white then ? Where is the line drawn exactly, are people from Central Asia and Pakistan also white ? The common understanding is that people from Europe are white, and people from the middle east are not, so it is not controversial to say jews are not white.

    Besides that, if jews don't want to be white, and the people who don't like jews also don't want them to be white, what is the problem here ? Seems like win-win to me.

    I’m pretty sure that until recently, it was very easy for Assyrians, Chaldeans, Armenians and other light skinned christian middle easterners to be simply White, in the same way that Italians are whites in the usa. With the “flight from White” phenomenon, these people may find it more interesting to become POCs. If White dispossession stops and is reversed, they’ll be very sorry.

    Read More
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  67. syonredux says:
    @Amasius

    The majority of American Jews are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi Jews are from Europe, not the Middle East.

     

    If a black African takes a White woman, does that make their child a White European? Ashkenazi jews are Semitic people from the Middle East who have appropriated some European DNA, 20 to 30% according to Nicholas Wade. European is White, White is European.

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

     

    Half-Asians often "scan" as White, too. Does that make them White? Is it really just looks? If you can pass as White then you're White? What about the reality?

    Giving POC status to White people (cf White Hispanics) is quite dangerous, as being non-White grants people a lot of privilege in the USA.

     

    Jews have played the game since the beginning. We're a poysecuted minority! But we're also White, aren't White people just horrible? See Tim Wise.

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Birds,_the_Beasts,_and_the_Bat

    The Birds, the Beasts, and the Bat

    The Birds waged war with the Beasts, and each were by turns the conquerors. A Bat, fearing the uncertain issues of the fight, always fought on the side which he felt was the strongest. When peace was proclaimed, his deceitful conduct was apparent to both combatants. Therefore being condemned by each for his treachery, he was driven forth from the light of day, and henceforth concealed himself in dark hiding-places, flying always alone and at night.

    If a black African takes a White woman, does that make their child a White European?

    Bad analogy. Sub-Saharan Africans are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.

    Ashkenazi jews are Semitic people from the Middle East who have appropriated some European DNA, 20 to 30% according to Nicholas Wade. European is White, White is European.

    Wade’s wrong. Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 50% European and 50% Middle Eastern:

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Half-Asians often “scan” as White, too. Does that make them White? Is it really just looks? If you can pass as White then you’re White? What about the reality?

    Bad comparison. East Asians are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "Middle Eastern" and "European" are fuzzy categories anyway. There are many "Europeans" that are genetically closer to a lot of "Middle Easterners" than they are to other "Europeans".
    This genetic kinship also translates to looks obviously.
    And it's also why bygone anthropologists defined West Eurasians as one discrete category of "Caucasoid", rather than define "European" and "Middle Easterner" to be distinct categories.

    Bad comparison. East Asians are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.
     
    The most distinct Europeans and Middle Easterners, which are probably Balts+Russians and Arabs, are still 75-100 times closer to one another than either one is to East Asians, despite Russians having actual east Asian admixture.
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  68. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    In the social construct of “white”, meaning as people understand it and see it, yes Jews are white.

    In the genetic sense, no they are not. They are more than half Middle Eastern/Hebrew genetically, and less than half European.

    Read More
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  69. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @syonredux

    If a black African takes a White woman, does that make their child a White European?
     
    Bad analogy. Sub-Saharan Africans are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.

    Ashkenazi jews are Semitic people from the Middle East who have appropriated some European DNA, 20 to 30% according to Nicholas Wade. European is White, White is European.
     
    Wade's wrong. Ashkenazi Jews are roughly 50% European and 50% Middle Eastern:

    I’m looking at abstracts on Ashkenazi genetics from ASHG 2013 and SMBE 2014 – by the same group, with Shai Carmi as the lead author. They did 128 whole genomes, 50x deep.

    They concluded Ashkenazi Jews were about 50% Middle Eastern and 50% European. In the 2013 abstract, they were pretty specific: they estimated the European ancestry fraction at 55% , plus or minus 2%.
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/ashkenazi-ancestry/

    Actually, non-Muslims from the Middle East are usually viewed as White in the USA. Cf people like Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Steve Jobs, Catherine Bell, Adrian Pasdar, William Peter Blatty, Casey Kasem, Catherine Keener, Teri Hatcher, the Maloof family, Michael DeBakey ,Ralph Nader, etc

    Half-Asians often “scan” as White, too. Does that make them White? Is it really just looks? If you can pass as White then you’re White? What about the reality?
     
    Bad comparison. East Asians are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.

    “Middle Eastern” and “European” are fuzzy categories anyway. There are many “Europeans” that are genetically closer to a lot of “Middle Easterners” than they are to other “Europeans”.
    This genetic kinship also translates to looks obviously.
    And it’s also why bygone anthropologists defined West Eurasians as one discrete category of “Caucasoid”, rather than define “European” and “Middle Easterner” to be distinct categories.

    Bad comparison. East Asians are far more genetically distant from Europeans than are Middle Easterners.

    The most distinct Europeans and Middle Easterners, which are probably Balts+Russians and Arabs, are still 75-100 times closer to one another than either one is to East Asians, despite Russians having actual east Asian admixture.

    Read More
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