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Asian Privilege: Asians Made 28% Higher Incomes Than Whites in 2016
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From the Census Bureau (PDF):

The median household income ranged from $80,720 for households with Asian householders to $38,555 for households with Black householders. … Median household income for households with non-Hispanic White householders … $63,155 in 2016.

So Asians averaged 27.8% higher income than non-Hispanic whites in 2016, 109% higher than blacks, and 72% more than Hispanics.

There are lots of factors contributing to this (e.g., Asians tend to live in the highest cost-of-living places), but it’s worth crunching the numbers.

In general, the big racial story of the 2010s has been the one that has been discussed the least: Asians have been pulling away from everybody else on a variety of measures.

 
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  1. Also keep in mind the debt load for Asians tends to be the lowest. High income in and of itself is only half the story

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Debt load huh?

    I am bombarded everyday with solicitations to loan me money so as to solve my problem of credit card debt. But I have no credit card debt. I have no credit cards.

    I'm a retired old guy on a fixed income. I decided to just use a debit card and only buy things if I had the money in the bank. I must be a financial genius. No one else seems to have figured this out. Live within your means.

    It does not surprise me that debt load varies by race.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Also keep in mind the debt load for Asians tends to be the lowest.
     
    But what about the gambling risk? That's the Achilles heel for East Asians.

    There was that Asian guy who let his son freeze to death out in the car while he was transfixed in a Minnesota casino.
  2. Bottom line. we imported another hostile alien over class who also hates our guts and views little better than swine.

    What can go wrong with that,

    • Replies: @Simple Psuedonym
    Particularly insulting to the generation of men who fought like hell against the Japanese Koreans Chinese Vietnamese only to see them dumped in the United States by the millions.

    # mass immigration
  3. This statistic in itself doesn’t mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.

    I know, the same argument can be made for blacks vs whites too.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    This statistic in itself doesn’t mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.
     
    Whites should be good sports and hand over our countries to superior Asians, amirite?
    , @L Woods
    The party line is that every group is exactly identical and equal (except that whites are inferior). There's no logical defense under the current belief system for Asians outperforming other victims of Structural Racism in this way.
    , @bomag

    Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.
     
    Maybe Asians should not be making as much; maybe they are engaging in sharp practices and gaming the system.

    Maybe Whites should be making more; instead of privileged, they are handicapped by current sensibilities.
  4. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:

    • Replies: @newrouter
    "You have to go back where you belong - Pol Pot's Cambodia" The eye glasses is a tell.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    What’s fascinating about people wanting to limit their competition?
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "It's fascinating to me that the same people who sneer at affirmative action are afraid immigrants are going to take their jobs"

    Oh dear sweet Sarah-san.... Banal consistencies shouldn't fascinate a Harvard graduate.

    Whites who support affirmative action and a world without borders believe their careers and Whiteopias are vulnerable to neither. Now, that's fascinating. But I'm just a grovelin' doglin with a four-year degree from State U, so what would I know.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    It's fascinating to me that the same people who scream 24h a day that racists are scum that should lost their jobs are so casually racist themselves (and definitely hold their jobs).
    , @Pericles
    An immigrant took the NYT editorial spot from a hard working Jew.
  5. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    If you control for education
     
    Perhaps, but that's not controlling for education. "Bachelor's degree" tells us roughly nothing about the education--or even the credentials--involved.
    , @MikeW
    I can see why Indians edge out the rest. In my experience as an IT geek (plenty of asians of all stripes), the Indians had the best networking. Indian managers took care of their own.

    When my division shut down, most who found jobs elsewhere in the company were Indian, suspiciously hired by other Indians.
    Not necessarily a bad thing, just shows all ethnicities should pay more attention to networking.
    , @ic1000
    > If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites

    What happens to the disparity in an apples to apples matchup?

    Compare foreign-born English-Second-Language non-US-university Asians and whites.
    Then native speakers with US degrees.

    Does the gap widen or close, what's your guess?
    , @Bill P
    Filipinos and South Asians do a lot of generational stacking in their households. It isn't uncommon for them to have three generations of working people under one roof.

    Whites are the opposite. Usually when you have multiple generations of whites in the same household only one or no generations are working. Often the unemployed middle-aged white will be living with and caring for the older retired parents, or the young, jobless single mother white will be living with employed parents. Where I live this is a common setup. The white single mother, BTW, is probably the largest drag on white aggregate income and the single most destructive social pathology among whites.

    Better off whites are empty nesters, living alone or in nuclear families with children under the age of majority.
    , @Pericles

    Filipinos

     

    Seen on another blog and now cannot be unseen: Filipinx.
    , @attilathehen
    Philippines - average IQ 84, a shithole.

    China - average IQ 95, a commie shithole.

    Korea - average IQ 100, North Korea is a shithole, South Korea has peaked.

    India - average IQ 82, a shithole.

    We are getting their talented 10%. This talented 10% needs to be sent back to make the above countries great again.
  6. Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    Are some of the Filos of Chinese origin? Also, I think Filos work in stuff like nursing than in small business where you can cook the books.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    There are all kinds. I know a Filipino-American IT director for Allianz Capital and a Filipino-American administrator at the UN. They both love golf.
  7. @Anonymous
    This statistic in itself doesn't mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.

    I know, the same argument can be made for blacks vs whites too.

    This statistic in itself doesn’t mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.

    Whites should be good sports and hand over our countries to superior Asians, amirite?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Where's that sammich?
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Whites should be good sports and hand over our countries to superior Asians, amirite?"

    That's what Le Autiste Corvi would say. You see, the Irish were once reviled in America, but they turned out all right; thus, America must erase its borders. So roll out the red carpet for every idiot, layabout, criminal and, yes, even the intelligent grinders who can compete with whites.
  8. They certainly aren’t acquiring a sense of “noblesse oblige.”

    As an Asian-American woman, Sarah Jeong suffered twice the amount of trolling abuse that I have experienced on social media. It was too much for me, and I cannot imagine how much it was for her. Venting anonymously against her tormentors may have been immature. But it was human.— Eugene Gu, MD (@eugenegu) August 2, 2018

    I suppose Ezra Klein will be along at some point to tell us they’ll all “become white” one day, rather than, say, following the path of his own particular market-dominant minority in nurturing a perpetual sense of separation and grievance against white gentiles.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    Isn't it worth pointing out that no one put a gun to her head and made her join Twitter and open her mind to the world? I am sure some people have said some mean things, but she decided to jump headfirst into that cesspool in the first place - she wanted to be heard and she got it.
  9. @Anonymous
    This statistic in itself doesn't mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.

    I know, the same argument can be made for blacks vs whites too.

    The party line is that every group is exactly identical and equal (except that whites are inferior). There’s no logical defense under the current belief system for Asians outperforming other victims of Structural Racism in this way.

  10. That’s a meaningless statistical artifact of US immigration policy. Millions of Asians would be more than happy to immigrate to the US for blue-collar jobs. Let them in and the Asian income “privilege” will magically disappear.

  11. @Thomas
    They certainly aren't acquiring a sense of "noblesse oblige."

    As an Asian-American woman, Sarah Jeong suffered twice the amount of trolling abuse that I have experienced on social media. It was too much for me, and I cannot imagine how much it was for her. Venting anonymously against her tormentors may have been immature. But it was human.— Eugene Gu, MD (@eugenegu) August 2, 2018
     
    I suppose Ezra Klein will be along at some point to tell us they'll all "become white" one day, rather than, say, following the path of his own particular market-dominant minority in nurturing a perpetual sense of separation and grievance against white gentiles.

    Isn’t it worth pointing out that no one put a gun to her head and made her join Twitter and open her mind to the world? I am sure some people have said some mean things, but she decided to jump headfirst into that cesspool in the first place – she wanted to be heard and she got it.

    • Replies: @Thomas

    Isn’t it worth pointing out that no one put a gun to her head and made her join Twitter and open her mind to the world? I am sure some people have said some mean things, but she decided to jump headfirst into that cesspool in the first place – she wanted to be heard and she got it.
     
    I’d love to see some of the stuff Steve receives on Twitter without responding in kind.
    , @Lagertha
    well, haha! Steve has certainly been nicey-nice to me...even when I go postal: hypersensitivity & compulsiveness is my terrible affliction - animals are always a trigger for me.

    It is hard when people pile-on, yet I would never wuss-out and expect people to defend me for losing my sh*t - especially, when we are more or less on the same team. For NYT to defend Jeong, that she was attacked by RW trolls in the past, is such boiler-plate wussy, apologist bullshit. More importantly, the deception and hypocrisy produced by the left, every day, is something that is beyond vile - I can't get the creepy Hollywood creep who dreamed of Barron being raped by pedophiles!

    As far as the NYT, they're basically admitting that Jeong is f*cked-up and irrational ("but we want her to be a fighter & say crazy things, like...") so she needs to be corporately coddled. I think once Joeng realizes she is being used (and can't be handled by her liberal handlers of the NYT) by the NYT, she will go postal: run, baby, run, now...you idiot - you're just an Asian diversity-hire puppet.

  12. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    In general, the big racial story of the 2010s has been the one that has been discussed the least: Asians have been pulling away from everybody else on a variety of measures.

    When you get the stats on wealth, as opposed to income, let us know.

    Especially if they include a category for, well, you know.

    PS: You never will find that last bit.

  13. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.
     

    If you control for education

    Perhaps, but that’s not controlling for education. “Bachelor’s degree” tells us roughly nothing about the education–or even the credentials–involved.

  14. @Anon
    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    Are some of the Filos of Chinese origin? Also, I think Filos work in stuff like nursing than in small business where you can cook the books.

    There are all kinds. I know a Filipino-American IT director for Allianz Capital and a Filipino-American administrator at the UN. They both love golf.

    • Replies: @indocon
    Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese are 3 groups that Republicans need to focus like laser. For diverse set of reasons like natural affinity from being Catholic's for Filipinos to past issues with AA's for Koreans, these will not mingle in the coalition of fringes. These groups are dominant in few swing states like Georgia (Koreans) and Nevada (Filipinos).

    Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, and all of them like are heading to voting like AA's for Democrats. There is talk of natural hostility between Indians and Pakistanis, I don't think that will play any role in their enmass Democratic vote, Similar to how both Jews and Arabs are all Democrats.

    Japanese and Chinese will be like Hispanics, probably voting 70-30 for other side, but we may have some hope with them.
  15. @Arclight
    Isn't it worth pointing out that no one put a gun to her head and made her join Twitter and open her mind to the world? I am sure some people have said some mean things, but she decided to jump headfirst into that cesspool in the first place - she wanted to be heard and she got it.

    Isn’t it worth pointing out that no one put a gun to her head and made her join Twitter and open her mind to the world? I am sure some people have said some mean things, but she decided to jump headfirst into that cesspool in the first place – she wanted to be heard and she got it.

    I’d love to see some of the stuff Steve receives on Twitter without responding in kind.

  16. As “Asian” includes quite a bit of less successful folk from Indochina, the Philippines, and thereabouts, how much is this figure understated?

    • Replies: @John Derbyshire
    Jungle Asians, not fancy Asians.
  17. All college admissions should be decided with a mix of IQ and athletics. There is one group that will on average do pretty well at both. Not necessarily the highest performer, but the best combo. It should certainly help the overlooked flyover white males get into elite schools which lead to good incomes. Isn’t “well rounded” the term always used?

    You can guess who does well on only one of these two, and those that stink at both.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    All college admissions should be decided with a mix of IQ and athletics. There is one group that will on average do pretty well at both.
     
    Hmm... Bill Bradley, Jack Kemp, Jim Bunning... Dennis Hastert... Dave Bing...
    , @Anonymous

    Isn’t “well rounded” the term always used?
     
    No, “well rounded” was term that was used in the Bad Old Days.
  18. @Anonymous
    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.
     

    I can see why Indians edge out the rest. In my experience as an IT geek (plenty of asians of all stripes), the Indians had the best networking. Indian managers took care of their own.

    When my division shut down, most who found jobs elsewhere in the company were Indian, suspiciously hired by other Indians.
    Not necessarily a bad thing, just shows all ethnicities should pay more attention to networking.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Indians are much nicer to Indians in America than they are to each other in India.
    , @JohnnyWalker123
    I think Indians have three economic advantages when they immigrate to first world nations.

    1. Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious and tribalistic. This is typical for West Asian ethnic groups (Mediterranean Euro, Levantine, Christian Arab, Persian, Arab, Middle Eastern, Jewish, etc) who inhabit ethnically-fractured, clannish regions. These West Asian ethnic groups (many of which are non-Muslim) are what could be called "Men with Gold Chains." Indians may have received this "Gold Chain" admixture into their population during the mass migration of Aryan/Yamnaya tribes.
    2. They are also into a culture of Tiger Mothering and "grinding." When you consider that Indians lived under conditions of intensive agriculture for thousands of years, this makes sense. Their agriculturalist environment probably selected for diligence, thrift, high-investment parenting, and "K" traits. Malthusian genetic and cultural selection......... This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates. Their Tiger Moms make them "grind" their way through courses.
    3. Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation's professional elite.
    So they're above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Unfortunately, those "Gold Chain" characteristics probably screw up India to some extent. When a society is full of clannish/tribalistic types, there's an extreme amount of corruption and a lack of cooperation. It's difficult for an ethnically fragmented nation to build large-scale institutions or engage in positive sum interactions. This ends up crippling the society's potential.

    However, when Indians immigrate overseas, those "Gold Chain" characteristics make Indians adept at ethnic networking and being verbally assertive. Since networking and verbalizing are important traits to advancing in the American/Western corporate world, Indians benefit.

    So what screws them at home is helpful abroad.

    This seems to be true of many "Gold Chain" ethnic groups. Just look at how well Southern Italians and Greeks do abroad, compared to their lackluster performance at home. Look at Levantines. Look at Armenians.
    , @MBlanc46
    All ethnicities should pay mor3 attention to keeping their homelands for themselves.
  19. @Arclight
    Isn't it worth pointing out that no one put a gun to her head and made her join Twitter and open her mind to the world? I am sure some people have said some mean things, but she decided to jump headfirst into that cesspool in the first place - she wanted to be heard and she got it.

    well, haha! Steve has certainly been nicey-nice to me…even when I go postal: hypersensitivity & compulsiveness is my terrible affliction – animals are always a trigger for me.

    It is hard when people pile-on, yet I would never wuss-out and expect people to defend me for losing my sh*t – especially, when we are more or less on the same team. For NYT to defend Jeong, that she was attacked by RW trolls in the past, is such boiler-plate wussy, apologist bullshit. More importantly, the deception and hypocrisy produced by the left, every day, is something that is beyond vile – I can’t get the creepy Hollywood creep who dreamed of Barron being raped by pedophiles!

    As far as the NYT, they’re basically admitting that Jeong is f*cked-up and irrational (“but we want her to be a fighter & say crazy things, like…”) so she needs to be corporately coddled. I think once Joeng realizes she is being used (and can’t be handled by her liberal handlers of the NYT) by the NYT, she will go postal: run, baby, run, now…you idiot – you’re just an Asian diversity-hire puppet.

  20. @Anonymous
    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.
     

    > If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites

    What happens to the disparity in an apples to apples matchup?

    Compare foreign-born English-Second-Language non-US-university Asians and whites.
    Then native speakers with US degrees.

    Does the gap widen or close, what’s your guess?

  21. Anonymous[356] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    This statistic in itself doesn’t mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.
     
    Whites should be good sports and hand over our countries to superior Asians, amirite?

    Where’s that sammich?

    • LOL: IHTG
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Where’s that sammich?
     
    https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/94224/screenshots/533471/shitsandwich.jpg
    , @MBlanc46
    Hey, Rosie, while you’re in the kitchen, how about getting one for me, too? Swiss on rye with German mustard and lettuce. And a beer. Thanks, sweetheart.
  22. Let’s either call them Asian-Americans, European-Americans, African-Americans, etc., or start including the stats for China, Vietnam, Korea, etc., because this middle ground is kinda deceptive.

    Tons of Asians squatting in huts and shitting in ditches. They just don’t make it to America very often.

  23. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/896154488146280448

    “You have to go back where you belong – Pol Pot’s Cambodia” The eye glasses is a tell.

  24. @Anon87
    All college admissions should be decided with a mix of IQ and athletics. There is one group that will on average do pretty well at both. Not necessarily the highest performer, but the best combo. It should certainly help the overlooked flyover white males get into elite schools which lead to good incomes. Isn't "well rounded" the term always used?

    You can guess who does well on only one of these two, and those that stink at both.

    All college admissions should be decided with a mix of IQ and athletics. There is one group that will on average do pretty well at both.

    Hmm… Bill Bradley, Jack Kemp, Jim Bunning… Dennis Hastert… Dave Bing…

    • Replies: @FPD72
    GOP presidents who were on college football teams included Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford (All American at Michigan), and Reagan. Bush I played baseball at Yale.

    Of course, all of these were before another group took over college sports.
  25. @Buzz Mohawk
    There are all kinds. I know a Filipino-American IT director for Allianz Capital and a Filipino-American administrator at the UN. They both love golf.

    Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese are 3 groups that Republicans need to focus like laser. For diverse set of reasons like natural affinity from being Catholic’s for Filipinos to past issues with AA’s for Koreans, these will not mingle in the coalition of fringes. These groups are dominant in few swing states like Georgia (Koreans) and Nevada (Filipinos).

    Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, and all of them like are heading to voting like AA’s for Democrats. There is talk of natural hostility between Indians and Pakistanis, I don’t think that will play any role in their enmass Democratic vote, Similar to how both Jews and Arabs are all Democrats.

    Japanese and Chinese will be like Hispanics, probably voting 70-30 for other side, but we may have some hope with them.

    • Replies: @anon
    This NPR poll shows that Vietnamese, Filipino and Chinese are the most pro-Trump:

    https://www.npr.org/2017/04/18/524371847/trump-lost-more-of-the-asian-american-vote-than-the-national-exit-polls-showed

    Other polls I've seen showed that Chinese and Vietnamese are the most likely to identify as Republican or Independent and voted for Trump.

    The South Asians are the most ardent Clinton supporters.

    S. Koreans used to be very Republican. They've vastly swung to the left in 2016.

  26. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/896154488146280448

    What’s fascinating about people wanting to limit their competition?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Maybe if you exhibited this Zen-like fascination with the obvious you'd be more like the Harvard material she is.
  27. @Reg Cæsar
    As "Asian" includes quite a bit of less successful folk from Indochina, the Philippines, and thereabouts, how much is this figure understated?

    Jungle Asians, not fancy Asians.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    Filipinos and Vietnamese both do well in America.

    "Jungle Asians" is a ridiculous term for them.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Jungle Asians, not fancy Asians.
     
    I get the point, but those compiling the statistics probably aren't slicing their pie wedges that thin. "Asians" may or not include Bangladeshis and various Indians.
  28. @Anonymous
    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.
     

    Filipinos and South Asians do a lot of generational stacking in their households. It isn’t uncommon for them to have three generations of working people under one roof.

    Whites are the opposite. Usually when you have multiple generations of whites in the same household only one or no generations are working. Often the unemployed middle-aged white will be living with and caring for the older retired parents, or the young, jobless single mother white will be living with employed parents. Where I live this is a common setup. The white single mother, BTW, is probably the largest drag on white aggregate income and the single most destructive social pathology among whites.

    Better off whites are empty nesters, living alone or in nuclear families with children under the age of majority.

    • Replies: @bomag

    The white single mother, BTW, is probably the largest drag on white aggregate income and the single most destructive social pathology among whites.
     
    Couple that with high achieving women not having kids -- it's not a good look.
  29. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/896154488146280448

    “It’s fascinating to me that the same people who sneer at affirmative action are afraid immigrants are going to take their jobs”

    Oh dear sweet Sarah-san…. Banal consistencies shouldn’t fascinate a Harvard graduate.

    Whites who support affirmative action and a world without borders believe their careers and Whiteopias are vulnerable to neither. Now, that’s fascinating. But I’m just a grovelin’ doglin with a four-year degree from State U, so what would I know.

  30. @Rosie

    This statistic in itself doesn’t mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.
     
    Whites should be good sports and hand over our countries to superior Asians, amirite?

    “Whites should be good sports and hand over our countries to superior Asians, amirite?”

    That’s what Le Autiste Corvi would say. You see, the Irish were once reviled in America, but they turned out all right; thus, America must erase its borders. So roll out the red carpet for every idiot, layabout, criminal and, yes, even the intelligent grinders who can compete with whites.

  31. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    What’s fascinating about people wanting to limit their competition?

    Maybe if you exhibited this Zen-like fascination with the obvious you’d be more like the Harvard material she is.

  32. All of the favoritism by being registered as Disadvantaged Minorities by the Small Business Administration. They can run their video-game businesses at the expense of the White taxpayer.

  33. It is all of that sweet,sweet Minority Disadvantaged Business money that comes from White taxpayers.

  34. MG says:

    The bulk of the Indians who came here from 1965 to 1995 were high achieving graduate students, most of them through financial awards by US universities. In other words, there was a quality filter and a sampling bias. A lot of the high earners are reflected in this group. Around 1995 the dam burst, quality filters were dismantled, and the H-1B floodgates opened. Cheap labor Indian software grunts still make more than the average but the overall quality of the immigrant Indian has seriously declined.

  35. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon87
    All college admissions should be decided with a mix of IQ and athletics. There is one group that will on average do pretty well at both. Not necessarily the highest performer, but the best combo. It should certainly help the overlooked flyover white males get into elite schools which lead to good incomes. Isn't "well rounded" the term always used?

    You can guess who does well on only one of these two, and those that stink at both.

    Isn’t “well rounded” the term always used?

    No, “well rounded” was term that was used in the Bad Old Days.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    It's "holistic" nowadays. Completely different.
  36. Sara Jeoung is an early xmas gift. Love this loser — don’t hate her.

    Embrace the jujitsu. She has delivered another massive black eye for the NYT. For Baquet & Sulzberger to bring her onboard is a sweet sweet own goal.

    Leftists are losers and they self deport to the political wilderness every single time — the one exception was Obama who had the racial profile, the skills and the great historical timing to survive for eight years (but he still killed the democrat party).

    Let Sara run wild on the op-ed page of Sulzberger’s rag. You go, girl.

  37. This says nothing about debt or that whites would be miserable doing what Asians do to make 28% more or that the white average probably is comprised of both higher and lower salaries than that of Asians. Also you’re proving my point about Asian braggarts. All my life I’ve had to listen to Asians claiming the best deals on everything from perfume to real estate – seems they paid almost nothing for what would cost the rest of us plenty. Now they’re claiming ever increasing IQs. Everytime I read this blog I expect to see a post about the new Asian average IQ being 210 or so. Knowing mature, secure adults don’t need to draw attention to or exaggerate their accomplishments, I can easily imagine why Asians do both. Perhaps there should be more Asian psychiatrists helping orientals deal with their lives of not-so-quiet desperation.

    • Replies: @epebble

    Asian average IQ being 210
     
    To be honest, the IQ fetish seems to be a White thing; Special Mention to Herrnstein & Murray.

    The Asians themselves, seem to be busy making nice electronics and cars.
    , @bomag

    whites would be miserable doing what Asians do to make 28% more
     
    Canard. I find it rather evil to suggest that Whites are a crippled people when it comes to getting things done so they need to import the Other.

    The work I've seen that brings in 28% more is mostly superfluous and not particularly positive. I don't get much improvement from another shoddy storefront or more Facebook and Google algorithms.
  38. @MikeW
    I can see why Indians edge out the rest. In my experience as an IT geek (plenty of asians of all stripes), the Indians had the best networking. Indian managers took care of their own.

    When my division shut down, most who found jobs elsewhere in the company were Indian, suspiciously hired by other Indians.
    Not necessarily a bad thing, just shows all ethnicities should pay more attention to networking.

    Indians are much nicer to Indians in America than they are to each other in India.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    They aren't that nice. The thing with running tightly integrated ethnic networks is that you have keep the group cohesive by excluding lots of people. It isn't Indians helping one another persay but rather particular groups of Indians helping their own particular caste network by taking advantage of everyone else including Indians of the wrong caste. The more honest among them readily admit to whats going on.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hiring-other-Indian-workers-in-the-IT-industry


    Yes and no. Many Indians in IT firms don’t just discriminate at the national level, many of them discriminate on a religion, race or caste-level. It usually starts like this.They first look at your name in the resume. Is it a “cool” sounding Brahmin name? (like Anand Gopalakrishnan). Or is it a Punjabi name? (Parminder Singh). Or perhaps, it’s a Telugu name (Sudheer Reddy). Or does your name sound totally unheard of, hard to pronounce and possibly from a lower caste? (Pazhanimuththu Kanakadas). Godforbid, hopefully it isn’t a Muslim name (Imtiaz Khan), an Indian Christian name (David Kamaraj) or a Chinese name (Pang Pang)...

    Yes, actually there is. If you take a count of the total people hired in US in IT, you will find that 90 to 95% of them are from Andhra Pradesh in India. I have worked for several companies in the bay area and other states and inspite of my experience and skills was always threatened by a incapable Telugu manager, Lead or candidate who only wanted to hire people of his caste. As if this was not enough, most of the Indian recruiting companies in the Bay Area are run by Telugu people who prefer to hire people from their region/caste and also work hand in hand with hiring managers to give a commission off the rates they make. This is very well known and widely practiced in companies such as CISCO and many others in the bay area. There are instances when my recruiting company told me that my resume didnt stand a chance, because the other recruting company that was working with this client was bribing managers to get their folks in. The result you see is incompetent inexperienced people who get hired for low rates, the cuts off salary goes to the recruiting company and hiring manager...

    Indians follow caste system where ever they move so it's not a surprise or shock if Indians hire only Indians by erase EEOC model in USA, Canada etc. I received emails from a boy in Canada how TCS displace locals. There is huge discrimination among Indian folks in caste, visa, PR/GC etc...

    I didn’t want to believe it either but it’s 100% true - especially in the Bay Area. I started noticing that 99% of the interviewing managers at a particular client, a large corporation, were Indian. I also started noticing that 99% of all my fellow vendors were Indian as well. I thought it was strange but I was new to servicing a client in the Bay Area. After ages of watching top-notch candidates get rejected with no reason or false reaons, especially my white and asian candidates, I knew something was up. The candidates all said the feedback (when we got it) made no sense, that the interviewer was rude to them, that the interview was impossibly short, heavy accent was challenging, questions were surface level etc. They were just staging these “interviews” to try and cover their rears, so they could hire their fellow Indians...

    Sad to see such comments in India. Not every Indian is like this. There are a lots of honest people but sadly due to discremination they never come up. It's not that these people give jobs to other Indians, but rather they give to their own family members or within communities. I see some one mentioning some class in upper management role and others in below role is a very true observations...

     

    I've been told by an acquaintance that due to changes in promotional procedures, that many of the departments at Microsoft have erupted into de facto race wars with caste Indians on one side and Chinese + most everyone else on the other. Suffice it to say that productivity is not what it once was. On the bright side, Americans can look forward to being culturally enriched by vibrant new overlords.
  39. @miss marple
    This says nothing about debt or that whites would be miserable doing what Asians do to make 28% more or that the white average probably is comprised of both higher and lower salaries than that of Asians. Also you're proving my point about Asian braggarts. All my life I've had to listen to Asians claiming the best deals on everything from perfume to real estate - seems they paid almost nothing for what would cost the rest of us plenty. Now they're claiming ever increasing IQs. Everytime I read this blog I expect to see a post about the new Asian average IQ being 210 or so. Knowing mature, secure adults don't need to draw attention to or exaggerate their accomplishments, I can easily imagine why Asians do both. Perhaps there should be more Asian psychiatrists helping orientals deal with their lives of not-so-quiet desperation.

    Asian average IQ being 210

    To be honest, the IQ fetish seems to be a White thing; Special Mention to Herrnstein & Murray.

    The Asians themselves, seem to be busy making nice electronics and cars.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Totally correct. I've never heard anything about Asians being obsessed with test results and getting high scores on tests. That's completely alien to Asian culture. Never in Asian history was there a time when your outcome in life depended on scoring well on a test, not in the past and not now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination


    That's a white man thing - a substitute for insecure cishet white men not being well endowed like people of color. "Hey baby, want to see my IQ - you won't believe how big it is".

  40. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/896154488146280448

    It’s fascinating to me that the same people who scream 24h a day that racists are scum that should lost their jobs are so casually racist themselves (and definitely hold their jobs).

  41. @Steve Sailer
    Indians are much nicer to Indians in America than they are to each other in India.

    They aren’t that nice. The thing with running tightly integrated ethnic networks is that you have keep the group cohesive by excluding lots of people. It isn’t Indians helping one another persay but rather particular groups of Indians helping their own particular caste network by taking advantage of everyone else including Indians of the wrong caste. The more honest among them readily admit to whats going on.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hiring-other-Indian-workers-in-the-IT-industry

    Yes and no. Many Indians in IT firms don’t just discriminate at the national level, many of them discriminate on a religion, race or caste-level. It usually starts like this.They first look at your name in the resume. Is it a “cool” sounding Brahmin name? (like Anand Gopalakrishnan). Or is it a Punjabi name? (Parminder Singh). Or perhaps, it’s a Telugu name (Sudheer Reddy). Or does your name sound totally unheard of, hard to pronounce and possibly from a lower caste? (Pazhanimuththu Kanakadas). Godforbid, hopefully it isn’t a Muslim name (Imtiaz Khan), an Indian Christian name (David Kamaraj) or a Chinese name (Pang Pang)…

    Yes, actually there is. If you take a count of the total people hired in US in IT, you will find that 90 to 95% of them are from Andhra Pradesh in India. I have worked for several companies in the bay area and other states and inspite of my experience and skills was always threatened by a incapable Telugu manager, Lead or candidate who only wanted to hire people of his caste. As if this was not enough, most of the Indian recruiting companies in the Bay Area are run by Telugu people who prefer to hire people from their region/caste and also work hand in hand with hiring managers to give a commission off the rates they make. This is very well known and widely practiced in companies such as CISCO and many others in the bay area. There are instances when my recruiting company told me that my resume didnt stand a chance, because the other recruting company that was working with this client was bribing managers to get their folks in. The result you see is incompetent inexperienced people who get hired for low rates, the cuts off salary goes to the recruiting company and hiring manager…

    Indians follow caste system where ever they move so it’s not a surprise or shock if Indians hire only Indians by erase EEOC model in USA, Canada etc. I received emails from a boy in Canada how TCS displace locals. There is huge discrimination among Indian folks in caste, visa, PR/GC etc…

    I didn’t want to believe it either but it’s 100% true – especially in the Bay Area. I started noticing that 99% of the interviewing managers at a particular client, a large corporation, were Indian. I also started noticing that 99% of all my fellow vendors were Indian as well. I thought it was strange but I was new to servicing a client in the Bay Area. After ages of watching top-notch candidates get rejected with no reason or false reaons, especially my white and asian candidates, I knew something was up. The candidates all said the feedback (when we got it) made no sense, that the interviewer was rude to them, that the interview was impossibly short, heavy accent was challenging, questions were surface level etc. They were just staging these “interviews” to try and cover their rears, so they could hire their fellow Indians…

    Sad to see such comments in India. Not every Indian is like this. There are a lots of honest people but sadly due to discremination they never come up. It’s not that these people give jobs to other Indians, but rather they give to their own family members or within communities. I see some one mentioning some class in upper management role and others in below role is a very true observations…

    I’ve been told by an acquaintance that due to changes in promotional procedures, that many of the departments at Microsoft have erupted into de facto race wars with caste Indians on one side and Chinese + most everyone else on the other. Suffice it to say that productivity is not what it once was. On the bright side, Americans can look forward to being culturally enriched by vibrant new overlords.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Thanks for this.

    We're told that we're getting diversity when what we get are conquerors.
    , @Mark P Miller
    I can anecdotally second this.

    These dynamics have always been visible to anyone who bothered to look, but in late-stage hyper-diversified liberalism, there is less and less motivation to effectively execute the requisite kabuki.

    , @Cowboy shaw
    I worked on a project for a large bank in Singapore once. Rather than some kind of multicultural paradise the work environment was a dysfunctional factional mess. Chinese women and Indian men seem to hate each others guts.

    I was told by a senior exec that hr were constantly on the lookout for nepotistic department stacking by Indians. It appeared to be a losing battle. The Indian who was my client was a true psychopath. The worst human I've ever met.

    The future is going to be awesome.

    , @JJ
    No wonder Windows 10 is becoming so sh*tty now that Indians have taken over Microsoft!
  42. That’s household income, not individual income. Could be high because various relatives live together. Google “Asian Monster Houses.”

  43. @John Derbyshire
    Jungle Asians, not fancy Asians.

    Filipinos and Vietnamese both do well in America.

    “Jungle Asians” is a ridiculous term for them.

  44. @MikeW
    I can see why Indians edge out the rest. In my experience as an IT geek (plenty of asians of all stripes), the Indians had the best networking. Indian managers took care of their own.

    When my division shut down, most who found jobs elsewhere in the company were Indian, suspiciously hired by other Indians.
    Not necessarily a bad thing, just shows all ethnicities should pay more attention to networking.

    I think Indians have three economic advantages when they immigrate to first world nations.

    1. Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious and tribalistic. This is typical for West Asian ethnic groups (Mediterranean Euro, Levantine, Christian Arab, Persian, Arab, Middle Eastern, Jewish, etc) who inhabit ethnically-fractured, clannish regions. These West Asian ethnic groups (many of which are non-Muslim) are what could be called “Men with Gold Chains.” Indians may have received this “Gold Chain” admixture into their population during the mass migration of Aryan/Yamnaya tribes.
    2. They are also into a culture of Tiger Mothering and “grinding.” When you consider that Indians lived under conditions of intensive agriculture for thousands of years, this makes sense. Their agriculturalist environment probably selected for diligence, thrift, high-investment parenting, and “K” traits. Malthusian genetic and cultural selection……… This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates. Their Tiger Moms make them “grind” their way through courses.
    3. Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation’s professional elite.
    So they’re above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Unfortunately, those “Gold Chain” characteristics probably screw up India to some extent. When a society is full of clannish/tribalistic types, there’s an extreme amount of corruption and a lack of cooperation. It’s difficult for an ethnically fragmented nation to build large-scale institutions or engage in positive sum interactions. This ends up crippling the society’s potential.

    However, when Indians immigrate overseas, those “Gold Chain” characteristics make Indians adept at ethnic networking and being verbally assertive. Since networking and verbalizing are important traits to advancing in the American/Western corporate world, Indians benefit.

    So what screws them at home is helpful abroad.

    This seems to be true of many “Gold Chain” ethnic groups. Just look at how well Southern Italians and Greeks do abroad, compared to their lackluster performance at home. Look at Levantines. Look at Armenians.

    • Replies: @Edward

    This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates.
     
    Or, there are just so many Indians that they're bound to produce so many software degree graduates. That, plus the fact that extreme poverty is declining in India, meaning that a Flynn-type effect will boost the IQs of those who have escaped it. If the average phenotypic IQ there is 83 as the latest data suggest, then getting rid of extreme poverty and malnutrition could push it into the early-to-mid 90s.

    Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation’s professional elite. So they’re above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.
     
    Obviously, the United States' highly selective immigration system explains the success of Indian-Americans. Jason Richwine reported (in the Forbes article below) that Indian-Americans have an average IQ of 112, and data from Arthur Hu from the 1990s suggest that Indian-Americans have higher average SAT scores than East Asian-Americans. For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html
    , @Anonymous

    Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious..

    ...are what could be called “Men with Gold Chains.”
     
    I don't think you've interacted with many Indians.
    , @Jack D
    You can't really compare Indians with tiny "Gold Chain" tribes like Armenians and Chechens. There are over a billion Indians spread out over a vast sub-continent with all sorts of cultures and languages, etc. - generalizing about "Indians" is as about as useful as generalizing about "Europeans" without considering that Norwegians are very different from Greeks.

    And in the US we are not getting a cross section of the Indian population - we are getting a small selected group from the top of the IQ distribution. This is the benefit of having over a billion people. Even if your national IQ is on the low side, you are STILL going to have millions and millions of high IQ people because when you multiply a small frequency times a very large number you still get a large number. The "talented tenth" of blacks in America never had a big impact because they are 3 million people in a nation of 300 million. But the "talented tenth" in India are 130 million people, which is more than the population of France and the UK combined.
    , @Duke of Qin
    Bingo.

    Its kind of like invasive species. Sometimes taking something out of its natural habit allows it to thrive. Becoming much more successful because the local competition is not adapted to its ecological advantages. India is a giant tragedy of the commons, with each endogamous group striving massively to screw every other over but when removed from this type of conflict remain hardwired so run amuck in societies without similar networked predation groups.

    Human sociality adapts to reality much faster than natural biology though which is why you are beginning to see greater pushback. The greatest problem is that multicultural societies modeled on Western standards of fairness and reciprocity when confronted by this behavior adopt the same and prosocial behaviors are jettisoned in favor of more tribalism for everyone. One almost has to thank the Indians for what they are doing. The Jews have been running a similarly strategy much longer and more successfully because they can usually pass for the host population. Indians are visually discernable at the outset.
  45. @Anonymous
    https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/896154488146280448

    An immigrant took the NYT editorial spot from a hard working Jew.

  46. @Anonymous
    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.
     

    Filipinos

    Seen on another blog and now cannot be unseen: Filipinx.

  47. @Anonymous

    Isn’t “well rounded” the term always used?
     
    No, “well rounded” was term that was used in the Bad Old Days.

    It’s “holistic” nowadays. Completely different.

  48. People say that when an Indian becomes a corporate manager, he nepotistically hires huge numbers of family members and coethnics. Gradually they take over the department.

    When a Chinese becomes a manager, he steals the intellectual property and starts a large competing company back in his homeland.

    Indians win in small-scale corporate department tribal skirmishes, but Chinese build huge corporate empires back home.

    “Gold Chain” people are effective at a local scale, while outbred nationalists are effective at a large scale.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Are those the only two possible outcomes? I really don't understand sometimes how it was ever possible that white people came to control almost the entire planet (at the height of the European empires), enslave millions of Africans and invent the technology to travel to the moon (well, okay the latter is explained by the help they got from black women) if they were really so dumb and passive that they would let others steal from them in this way and let them take over their businesses, rape their daughters, take over their countries. Did something happen that caused white people to lose their brains and their balls? Were they chemically castrated from the estrogens in plastics? Did they recognize the evil of their ways and as repentance allow themselves to be trampled? Don't tell me that it is because they were brainwashed by Joos. The white race I read about in history books was too smart to allow themselves to be conned by a bunch of Shylocks. When I read about the English who carried out the Opium War it is as if I am reading about a completely different race who are as different to modern Englishmen as Martians. What happened?
  49. @JohnnyWalker123
    I think Indians have three economic advantages when they immigrate to first world nations.

    1. Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious and tribalistic. This is typical for West Asian ethnic groups (Mediterranean Euro, Levantine, Christian Arab, Persian, Arab, Middle Eastern, Jewish, etc) who inhabit ethnically-fractured, clannish regions. These West Asian ethnic groups (many of which are non-Muslim) are what could be called "Men with Gold Chains." Indians may have received this "Gold Chain" admixture into their population during the mass migration of Aryan/Yamnaya tribes.
    2. They are also into a culture of Tiger Mothering and "grinding." When you consider that Indians lived under conditions of intensive agriculture for thousands of years, this makes sense. Their agriculturalist environment probably selected for diligence, thrift, high-investment parenting, and "K" traits. Malthusian genetic and cultural selection......... This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates. Their Tiger Moms make them "grind" their way through courses.
    3. Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation's professional elite.
    So they're above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Unfortunately, those "Gold Chain" characteristics probably screw up India to some extent. When a society is full of clannish/tribalistic types, there's an extreme amount of corruption and a lack of cooperation. It's difficult for an ethnically fragmented nation to build large-scale institutions or engage in positive sum interactions. This ends up crippling the society's potential.

    However, when Indians immigrate overseas, those "Gold Chain" characteristics make Indians adept at ethnic networking and being verbally assertive. Since networking and verbalizing are important traits to advancing in the American/Western corporate world, Indians benefit.

    So what screws them at home is helpful abroad.

    This seems to be true of many "Gold Chain" ethnic groups. Just look at how well Southern Italians and Greeks do abroad, compared to their lackluster performance at home. Look at Levantines. Look at Armenians.

    This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates.

    Or, there are just so many Indians that they’re bound to produce so many software degree graduates. That, plus the fact that extreme poverty is declining in India, meaning that a Flynn-type effect will boost the IQs of those who have escaped it. If the average phenotypic IQ there is 83 as the latest data suggest, then getting rid of extreme poverty and malnutrition could push it into the early-to-mid 90s.

    Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation’s professional elite. So they’re above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Obviously, the United States’ highly selective immigration system explains the success of Indian-Americans. Jason Richwine reported (in the Forbes article below) that Indian-Americans have an average IQ of 112, and data from Arthur Hu from the 1990s suggest that Indian-Americans have higher average SAT scores than East Asian-Americans. For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

    • Replies: @res

    For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).
     
    Caste might have something to do with it, but I think a big part of it is how much more economic opportunity is available in East Asia vs. India.
    , @rec1man
    The key is caste

    In California National Merit 2018, total 2200 finalists
    1100 east asian, 100 jews

    350 Indians , of whom 130 Brahmins

    And withn Brahmins, 60 Tamil Brahmins

    And among Tamil Speakers, 2% Tamil Brahmin, 98% Tamil Dravidian,
    Tamil Brahmin = 60, Tamil Dravidian = 15 ;
    Back in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu, the 98% Tamil Dravidians, need 69% quota to compete vs 2% Tamil Brahmins

    and of the visible Indian Americans, 6 Jat Sikhs and 9 Patels ; The UK Indian diaspora is 80% made up of Patels and Jat Sikhs
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    The only direct evidence we have comes from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey, in which a basic cognitive test called "digit span" was administered to a sample of newly arrived immigrant children.
    ...
    When statistical adjustments are used to convert the backward digit span results to full-scale IQ scores, Indian Americans place at about 112

     

    Ok, sounds legit.
  50. The scary thing is that the income difference would be even higher if they weren’t being held to higher standards in college admissions and blocked from top boardroom and CEO positions by the “bamboo ceiling” (which admittedly, does not seem to apply to Indians).

  51. @Reg Cæsar

    All college admissions should be decided with a mix of IQ and athletics. There is one group that will on average do pretty well at both.
     
    Hmm... Bill Bradley, Jack Kemp, Jim Bunning... Dennis Hastert... Dave Bing...

    GOP presidents who were on college football teams included Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford (All American at Michigan), and Reagan. Bush I played baseball at Yale.

    Of course, all of these were before another group took over college sports.

  52. @Anonymous
    This statistic in itself doesn't mean much. Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.

    I know, the same argument can be made for blacks vs whites too.

    Asians might deserve to be making twice as much as whites, but white privilege may be narrowing that gap.

    Maybe Asians should not be making as much; maybe they are engaging in sharp practices and gaming the system.

    Maybe Whites should be making more; instead of privileged, they are handicapped by current sensibilities.

  53. @Bill P
    Filipinos and South Asians do a lot of generational stacking in their households. It isn't uncommon for them to have three generations of working people under one roof.

    Whites are the opposite. Usually when you have multiple generations of whites in the same household only one or no generations are working. Often the unemployed middle-aged white will be living with and caring for the older retired parents, or the young, jobless single mother white will be living with employed parents. Where I live this is a common setup. The white single mother, BTW, is probably the largest drag on white aggregate income and the single most destructive social pathology among whites.

    Better off whites are empty nesters, living alone or in nuclear families with children under the age of majority.

    The white single mother, BTW, is probably the largest drag on white aggregate income and the single most destructive social pathology among whites.

    Couple that with high achieving women not having kids — it’s not a good look.

  54. Once you control for family size (Asians are more likely to have a mom and dad under one roof), education, and as you mentioned COL, the difference probably isn’t so stark.

  55. @miss marple
    This says nothing about debt or that whites would be miserable doing what Asians do to make 28% more or that the white average probably is comprised of both higher and lower salaries than that of Asians. Also you're proving my point about Asian braggarts. All my life I've had to listen to Asians claiming the best deals on everything from perfume to real estate - seems they paid almost nothing for what would cost the rest of us plenty. Now they're claiming ever increasing IQs. Everytime I read this blog I expect to see a post about the new Asian average IQ being 210 or so. Knowing mature, secure adults don't need to draw attention to or exaggerate their accomplishments, I can easily imagine why Asians do both. Perhaps there should be more Asian psychiatrists helping orientals deal with their lives of not-so-quiet desperation.

    whites would be miserable doing what Asians do to make 28% more

    Canard. I find it rather evil to suggest that Whites are a crippled people when it comes to getting things done so they need to import the Other.

    The work I’ve seen that brings in 28% more is mostly superfluous and not particularly positive. I don’t get much improvement from another shoddy storefront or more Facebook and Google algorithms.

  56. @Duke of Qin
    They aren't that nice. The thing with running tightly integrated ethnic networks is that you have keep the group cohesive by excluding lots of people. It isn't Indians helping one another persay but rather particular groups of Indians helping their own particular caste network by taking advantage of everyone else including Indians of the wrong caste. The more honest among them readily admit to whats going on.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hiring-other-Indian-workers-in-the-IT-industry


    Yes and no. Many Indians in IT firms don’t just discriminate at the national level, many of them discriminate on a religion, race or caste-level. It usually starts like this.They first look at your name in the resume. Is it a “cool” sounding Brahmin name? (like Anand Gopalakrishnan). Or is it a Punjabi name? (Parminder Singh). Or perhaps, it’s a Telugu name (Sudheer Reddy). Or does your name sound totally unheard of, hard to pronounce and possibly from a lower caste? (Pazhanimuththu Kanakadas). Godforbid, hopefully it isn’t a Muslim name (Imtiaz Khan), an Indian Christian name (David Kamaraj) or a Chinese name (Pang Pang)...

    Yes, actually there is. If you take a count of the total people hired in US in IT, you will find that 90 to 95% of them are from Andhra Pradesh in India. I have worked for several companies in the bay area and other states and inspite of my experience and skills was always threatened by a incapable Telugu manager, Lead or candidate who only wanted to hire people of his caste. As if this was not enough, most of the Indian recruiting companies in the Bay Area are run by Telugu people who prefer to hire people from their region/caste and also work hand in hand with hiring managers to give a commission off the rates they make. This is very well known and widely practiced in companies such as CISCO and many others in the bay area. There are instances when my recruiting company told me that my resume didnt stand a chance, because the other recruting company that was working with this client was bribing managers to get their folks in. The result you see is incompetent inexperienced people who get hired for low rates, the cuts off salary goes to the recruiting company and hiring manager...

    Indians follow caste system where ever they move so it's not a surprise or shock if Indians hire only Indians by erase EEOC model in USA, Canada etc. I received emails from a boy in Canada how TCS displace locals. There is huge discrimination among Indian folks in caste, visa, PR/GC etc...

    I didn’t want to believe it either but it’s 100% true - especially in the Bay Area. I started noticing that 99% of the interviewing managers at a particular client, a large corporation, were Indian. I also started noticing that 99% of all my fellow vendors were Indian as well. I thought it was strange but I was new to servicing a client in the Bay Area. After ages of watching top-notch candidates get rejected with no reason or false reaons, especially my white and asian candidates, I knew something was up. The candidates all said the feedback (when we got it) made no sense, that the interviewer was rude to them, that the interview was impossibly short, heavy accent was challenging, questions were surface level etc. They were just staging these “interviews” to try and cover their rears, so they could hire their fellow Indians...

    Sad to see such comments in India. Not every Indian is like this. There are a lots of honest people but sadly due to discremination they never come up. It's not that these people give jobs to other Indians, but rather they give to their own family members or within communities. I see some one mentioning some class in upper management role and others in below role is a very true observations...

     

    I've been told by an acquaintance that due to changes in promotional procedures, that many of the departments at Microsoft have erupted into de facto race wars with caste Indians on one side and Chinese + most everyone else on the other. Suffice it to say that productivity is not what it once was. On the bright side, Americans can look forward to being culturally enriched by vibrant new overlords.

    Thanks for this.

    We’re told that we’re getting diversity when what we get are conquerors.

  57. Anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @JohnnyWalker123
    I think Indians have three economic advantages when they immigrate to first world nations.

    1. Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious and tribalistic. This is typical for West Asian ethnic groups (Mediterranean Euro, Levantine, Christian Arab, Persian, Arab, Middle Eastern, Jewish, etc) who inhabit ethnically-fractured, clannish regions. These West Asian ethnic groups (many of which are non-Muslim) are what could be called "Men with Gold Chains." Indians may have received this "Gold Chain" admixture into their population during the mass migration of Aryan/Yamnaya tribes.
    2. They are also into a culture of Tiger Mothering and "grinding." When you consider that Indians lived under conditions of intensive agriculture for thousands of years, this makes sense. Their agriculturalist environment probably selected for diligence, thrift, high-investment parenting, and "K" traits. Malthusian genetic and cultural selection......... This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates. Their Tiger Moms make them "grind" their way through courses.
    3. Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation's professional elite.
    So they're above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Unfortunately, those "Gold Chain" characteristics probably screw up India to some extent. When a society is full of clannish/tribalistic types, there's an extreme amount of corruption and a lack of cooperation. It's difficult for an ethnically fragmented nation to build large-scale institutions or engage in positive sum interactions. This ends up crippling the society's potential.

    However, when Indians immigrate overseas, those "Gold Chain" characteristics make Indians adept at ethnic networking and being verbally assertive. Since networking and verbalizing are important traits to advancing in the American/Western corporate world, Indians benefit.

    So what screws them at home is helpful abroad.

    This seems to be true of many "Gold Chain" ethnic groups. Just look at how well Southern Italians and Greeks do abroad, compared to their lackluster performance at home. Look at Levantines. Look at Armenians.

    Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious..

    …are what could be called “Men with Gold Chains.”

    I don’t think you’ve interacted with many Indians.

  58. I’ve been quipping that “Yellow is the new White” for years now.

    Per your earlier article re advances in genetics and the glass being half full, when one weighs the implications — of CRISPR being used by the Left or the same misguided tastes that produced some real abominations among dogs — the only intelligent sentiment to harbor is a deep ambivalence.

    The same goes with the rise of the Orient. When I see the pathological virtue signaling of my increasingly faggy brethren, maybe a Chinese protectorate in what was formerly Europe is the most we can aspire to.

  59. @Duke of Qin
    They aren't that nice. The thing with running tightly integrated ethnic networks is that you have keep the group cohesive by excluding lots of people. It isn't Indians helping one another persay but rather particular groups of Indians helping their own particular caste network by taking advantage of everyone else including Indians of the wrong caste. The more honest among them readily admit to whats going on.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hiring-other-Indian-workers-in-the-IT-industry


    Yes and no. Many Indians in IT firms don’t just discriminate at the national level, many of them discriminate on a religion, race or caste-level. It usually starts like this.They first look at your name in the resume. Is it a “cool” sounding Brahmin name? (like Anand Gopalakrishnan). Or is it a Punjabi name? (Parminder Singh). Or perhaps, it’s a Telugu name (Sudheer Reddy). Or does your name sound totally unheard of, hard to pronounce and possibly from a lower caste? (Pazhanimuththu Kanakadas). Godforbid, hopefully it isn’t a Muslim name (Imtiaz Khan), an Indian Christian name (David Kamaraj) or a Chinese name (Pang Pang)...

    Yes, actually there is. If you take a count of the total people hired in US in IT, you will find that 90 to 95% of them are from Andhra Pradesh in India. I have worked for several companies in the bay area and other states and inspite of my experience and skills was always threatened by a incapable Telugu manager, Lead or candidate who only wanted to hire people of his caste. As if this was not enough, most of the Indian recruiting companies in the Bay Area are run by Telugu people who prefer to hire people from their region/caste and also work hand in hand with hiring managers to give a commission off the rates they make. This is very well known and widely practiced in companies such as CISCO and many others in the bay area. There are instances when my recruiting company told me that my resume didnt stand a chance, because the other recruting company that was working with this client was bribing managers to get their folks in. The result you see is incompetent inexperienced people who get hired for low rates, the cuts off salary goes to the recruiting company and hiring manager...

    Indians follow caste system where ever they move so it's not a surprise or shock if Indians hire only Indians by erase EEOC model in USA, Canada etc. I received emails from a boy in Canada how TCS displace locals. There is huge discrimination among Indian folks in caste, visa, PR/GC etc...

    I didn’t want to believe it either but it’s 100% true - especially in the Bay Area. I started noticing that 99% of the interviewing managers at a particular client, a large corporation, were Indian. I also started noticing that 99% of all my fellow vendors were Indian as well. I thought it was strange but I was new to servicing a client in the Bay Area. After ages of watching top-notch candidates get rejected with no reason or false reaons, especially my white and asian candidates, I knew something was up. The candidates all said the feedback (when we got it) made no sense, that the interviewer was rude to them, that the interview was impossibly short, heavy accent was challenging, questions were surface level etc. They were just staging these “interviews” to try and cover their rears, so they could hire their fellow Indians...

    Sad to see such comments in India. Not every Indian is like this. There are a lots of honest people but sadly due to discremination they never come up. It's not that these people give jobs to other Indians, but rather they give to their own family members or within communities. I see some one mentioning some class in upper management role and others in below role is a very true observations...

     

    I've been told by an acquaintance that due to changes in promotional procedures, that many of the departments at Microsoft have erupted into de facto race wars with caste Indians on one side and Chinese + most everyone else on the other. Suffice it to say that productivity is not what it once was. On the bright side, Americans can look forward to being culturally enriched by vibrant new overlords.

    I can anecdotally second this.

    These dynamics have always been visible to anyone who bothered to look, but in late-stage hyper-diversified liberalism, there is less and less motivation to effectively execute the requisite kabuki.

  60. @Tiny Duck
    Sorry you guys are losers and will continue to be reprimanded

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5b630b98e4b0fd5c73d6ee6d

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/08/02/simpsons-fox-execs-address-shows-future-and-apu-controversy/890780002/

    No. Please not that. To be reprimanded, the other “r” word…

    • LOL: MBlanc46
  61. @epebble

    Asian average IQ being 210
     
    To be honest, the IQ fetish seems to be a White thing; Special Mention to Herrnstein & Murray.

    The Asians themselves, seem to be busy making nice electronics and cars.

    Totally correct. I’ve never heard anything about Asians being obsessed with test results and getting high scores on tests. That’s completely alien to Asian culture. Never in Asian history was there a time when your outcome in life depended on scoring well on a test, not in the past and not now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination

    That’s a white man thing – a substitute for insecure cishet white men not being well endowed like people of color. “Hey baby, want to see my IQ – you won’t believe how big it is”.

    • Replies: @Simple Psuedonym
    Lot of good it did. GDP per capita in China is lower than Mexico. What European explorers long described as Asian disease. Corruption, nepotisim, stasis, strongmen.

    At best can reach middle income like Korea when left to their own, provided the US funds and enforces the defense arrangements.
  62. @JohnnyWalker123
    I think Indians have three economic advantages when they immigrate to first world nations.

    1. Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious and tribalistic. This is typical for West Asian ethnic groups (Mediterranean Euro, Levantine, Christian Arab, Persian, Arab, Middle Eastern, Jewish, etc) who inhabit ethnically-fractured, clannish regions. These West Asian ethnic groups (many of which are non-Muslim) are what could be called "Men with Gold Chains." Indians may have received this "Gold Chain" admixture into their population during the mass migration of Aryan/Yamnaya tribes.
    2. They are also into a culture of Tiger Mothering and "grinding." When you consider that Indians lived under conditions of intensive agriculture for thousands of years, this makes sense. Their agriculturalist environment probably selected for diligence, thrift, high-investment parenting, and "K" traits. Malthusian genetic and cultural selection......... This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates. Their Tiger Moms make them "grind" their way through courses.
    3. Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation's professional elite.
    So they're above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Unfortunately, those "Gold Chain" characteristics probably screw up India to some extent. When a society is full of clannish/tribalistic types, there's an extreme amount of corruption and a lack of cooperation. It's difficult for an ethnically fragmented nation to build large-scale institutions or engage in positive sum interactions. This ends up crippling the society's potential.

    However, when Indians immigrate overseas, those "Gold Chain" characteristics make Indians adept at ethnic networking and being verbally assertive. Since networking and verbalizing are important traits to advancing in the American/Western corporate world, Indians benefit.

    So what screws them at home is helpful abroad.

    This seems to be true of many "Gold Chain" ethnic groups. Just look at how well Southern Italians and Greeks do abroad, compared to their lackluster performance at home. Look at Levantines. Look at Armenians.

    You can’t really compare Indians with tiny “Gold Chain” tribes like Armenians and Chechens. There are over a billion Indians spread out over a vast sub-continent with all sorts of cultures and languages, etc. – generalizing about “Indians” is as about as useful as generalizing about “Europeans” without considering that Norwegians are very different from Greeks.

    And in the US we are not getting a cross section of the Indian population – we are getting a small selected group from the top of the IQ distribution. This is the benefit of having over a billion people. Even if your national IQ is on the low side, you are STILL going to have millions and millions of high IQ people because when you multiply a small frequency times a very large number you still get a large number. The “talented tenth” of blacks in America never had a big impact because they are 3 million people in a nation of 300 million. But the “talented tenth” in India are 130 million people, which is more than the population of France and the UK combined.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    This is because you don't understand Indians at all. If you had read Steve's review of David Reich's new book, you'd have a better of understanding of them.

    People tend to think of India, with its more than 1.3 billion people, as having a tremendously large population, and indeed many Indians as well as foreigners see it this way. But genetically, this is an incorrect way to view the situation. The Han Chinese are truly a large population. They have been mixing freely for thousands of years. In contrast, there are few if any Indian groups that are demographically very large, and the degree of genetic differentiation among Indian jati groups living side by side in the same village is typically two to three times higher than the genetic differentiation between northern and southern Europeans. The truth is that India is composed of a large number of small populations.
     
    Norwegians are actually closer related to Greeks that lived a thousand miles away than Indians of different castes that have been living in the same village for thousands of years. Think on the degree of segregation and tribal animosity it took to make that happen. Indians aren't a people. They are a collection of hundreds of "gold chain" wearing tribes that have lived together yet simultaneously apart and their culture reflect this. You can't compare Indians to tiny groups such as Armenians or Chechens. Indians are actually Armenians, AND Chechens, and Jews, and Gypsies, and various Arab Tribes, and Kurds, and Druze, and Dönmeh and basically every other small ethno-religious endogamous minority you can think of rolled into one country. India is the Ur multicultural-multiracial civilization par excellence and its function, or dysfunction, is the example of what people can expect when the West becomes truly "diverse" in the future.
  63. @Rod1963
    Bottom line. we imported another hostile alien over class who also hates our guts and views little better than swine.

    What can go wrong with that,

    Particularly insulting to the generation of men who fought like hell against the Japanese Koreans Chinese Vietnamese only to see them dumped in the United States by the millions.

    # mass immigration

  64. @Jack D
    Totally correct. I've never heard anything about Asians being obsessed with test results and getting high scores on tests. That's completely alien to Asian culture. Never in Asian history was there a time when your outcome in life depended on scoring well on a test, not in the past and not now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination


    That's a white man thing - a substitute for insecure cishet white men not being well endowed like people of color. "Hey baby, want to see my IQ - you won't believe how big it is".

    Lot of good it did. GDP per capita in China is lower than Mexico. What European explorers long described as Asian disease. Corruption, nepotisim, stasis, strongmen.

    At best can reach middle income like Korea when left to their own, provided the US funds and enforces the defense arrangements.

  65. A caveat: That’s *household* income. The larger the household, the less each dollar is worth. (If memory serves, a standard formula is dividing by the square root of the number of people in the household.)

  66. @Duke of Qin
    They aren't that nice. The thing with running tightly integrated ethnic networks is that you have keep the group cohesive by excluding lots of people. It isn't Indians helping one another persay but rather particular groups of Indians helping their own particular caste network by taking advantage of everyone else including Indians of the wrong caste. The more honest among them readily admit to whats going on.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hiring-other-Indian-workers-in-the-IT-industry


    Yes and no. Many Indians in IT firms don’t just discriminate at the national level, many of them discriminate on a religion, race or caste-level. It usually starts like this.They first look at your name in the resume. Is it a “cool” sounding Brahmin name? (like Anand Gopalakrishnan). Or is it a Punjabi name? (Parminder Singh). Or perhaps, it’s a Telugu name (Sudheer Reddy). Or does your name sound totally unheard of, hard to pronounce and possibly from a lower caste? (Pazhanimuththu Kanakadas). Godforbid, hopefully it isn’t a Muslim name (Imtiaz Khan), an Indian Christian name (David Kamaraj) or a Chinese name (Pang Pang)...

    Yes, actually there is. If you take a count of the total people hired in US in IT, you will find that 90 to 95% of them are from Andhra Pradesh in India. I have worked for several companies in the bay area and other states and inspite of my experience and skills was always threatened by a incapable Telugu manager, Lead or candidate who only wanted to hire people of his caste. As if this was not enough, most of the Indian recruiting companies in the Bay Area are run by Telugu people who prefer to hire people from their region/caste and also work hand in hand with hiring managers to give a commission off the rates they make. This is very well known and widely practiced in companies such as CISCO and many others in the bay area. There are instances when my recruiting company told me that my resume didnt stand a chance, because the other recruting company that was working with this client was bribing managers to get their folks in. The result you see is incompetent inexperienced people who get hired for low rates, the cuts off salary goes to the recruiting company and hiring manager...

    Indians follow caste system where ever they move so it's not a surprise or shock if Indians hire only Indians by erase EEOC model in USA, Canada etc. I received emails from a boy in Canada how TCS displace locals. There is huge discrimination among Indian folks in caste, visa, PR/GC etc...

    I didn’t want to believe it either but it’s 100% true - especially in the Bay Area. I started noticing that 99% of the interviewing managers at a particular client, a large corporation, were Indian. I also started noticing that 99% of all my fellow vendors were Indian as well. I thought it was strange but I was new to servicing a client in the Bay Area. After ages of watching top-notch candidates get rejected with no reason or false reaons, especially my white and asian candidates, I knew something was up. The candidates all said the feedback (when we got it) made no sense, that the interviewer was rude to them, that the interview was impossibly short, heavy accent was challenging, questions were surface level etc. They were just staging these “interviews” to try and cover their rears, so they could hire their fellow Indians...

    Sad to see such comments in India. Not every Indian is like this. There are a lots of honest people but sadly due to discremination they never come up. It's not that these people give jobs to other Indians, but rather they give to their own family members or within communities. I see some one mentioning some class in upper management role and others in below role is a very true observations...

     

    I've been told by an acquaintance that due to changes in promotional procedures, that many of the departments at Microsoft have erupted into de facto race wars with caste Indians on one side and Chinese + most everyone else on the other. Suffice it to say that productivity is not what it once was. On the bright side, Americans can look forward to being culturally enriched by vibrant new overlords.

    I worked on a project for a large bank in Singapore once. Rather than some kind of multicultural paradise the work environment was a dysfunctional factional mess. Chinese women and Indian men seem to hate each others guts.

    I was told by a senior exec that hr were constantly on the lookout for nepotistic department stacking by Indians. It appeared to be a losing battle. The Indian who was my client was a true psychopath. The worst human I’ve ever met.

    The future is going to be awesome.

  67. @Anonsgt
    Also keep in mind the debt load for Asians tends to be the lowest. High income in and of itself is only half the story

    Debt load huh?

    I am bombarded everyday with solicitations to loan me money so as to solve my problem of credit card debt. But I have no credit card debt. I have no credit cards.

    I’m a retired old guy on a fixed income. I decided to just use a debit card and only buy things if I had the money in the bank. I must be a financial genius. No one else seems to have figured this out. Live within your means.

    It does not surprise me that debt load varies by race.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    There are advantages to having a credit card. You get the "float" on your charges because you buy something at the beginning of the month but don't have to pay until the due date of the credit card statement which can be almost 2 months later. And there are credit cards that offer cash back. The merchant pays over 2% for each credit card charge and some of the cards kick part of that back to you, as much as 1.5% or sometimes even more.

    The secret is to pay your credit card balance every month. Then you never have to pay any interest. You just have to have the self control to not charge more than you have available to pay the balance.
  68. @Pat Boyle
    Debt load huh?

    I am bombarded everyday with solicitations to loan me money so as to solve my problem of credit card debt. But I have no credit card debt. I have no credit cards.

    I'm a retired old guy on a fixed income. I decided to just use a debit card and only buy things if I had the money in the bank. I must be a financial genius. No one else seems to have figured this out. Live within your means.

    It does not surprise me that debt load varies by race.

    There are advantages to having a credit card. You get the “float” on your charges because you buy something at the beginning of the month but don’t have to pay until the due date of the credit card statement which can be almost 2 months later. And there are credit cards that offer cash back. The merchant pays over 2% for each credit card charge and some of the cards kick part of that back to you, as much as 1.5% or sometimes even more.

    The secret is to pay your credit card balance every month. Then you never have to pay any interest. You just have to have the self control to not charge more than you have available to pay the balance.

  69. @JohnnyWalker123
    People say that when an Indian becomes a corporate manager, he nepotistically hires huge numbers of family members and coethnics. Gradually they take over the department.

    When a Chinese becomes a manager, he steals the intellectual property and starts a large competing company back in his homeland.

    Indians win in small-scale corporate department tribal skirmishes, but Chinese build huge corporate empires back home.

    "Gold Chain" people are effective at a local scale, while outbred nationalists are effective at a large scale.

    Are those the only two possible outcomes? I really don’t understand sometimes how it was ever possible that white people came to control almost the entire planet (at the height of the European empires), enslave millions of Africans and invent the technology to travel to the moon (well, okay the latter is explained by the help they got from black women) if they were really so dumb and passive that they would let others steal from them in this way and let them take over their businesses, rape their daughters, take over their countries. Did something happen that caused white people to lose their brains and their balls? Were they chemically castrated from the estrogens in plastics? Did they recognize the evil of their ways and as repentance allow themselves to be trampled? Don’t tell me that it is because they were brainwashed by Joos. The white race I read about in history books was too smart to allow themselves to be conned by a bunch of Shylocks. When I read about the English who carried out the Opium War it is as if I am reading about a completely different race who are as different to modern Englishmen as Martians. What happened?

    • Replies: @bomag

    What happened?
     
    Probably similar to what happened to the Hellenistic Greeks; the Romans; the Ottomans; etc.

    Includes: a groups' initial advantage goes away when everyone else learns the trick; there's a difference between building and expanding the brand, and maintaining what you've got.
  70. @Jack D
    Are those the only two possible outcomes? I really don't understand sometimes how it was ever possible that white people came to control almost the entire planet (at the height of the European empires), enslave millions of Africans and invent the technology to travel to the moon (well, okay the latter is explained by the help they got from black women) if they were really so dumb and passive that they would let others steal from them in this way and let them take over their businesses, rape their daughters, take over their countries. Did something happen that caused white people to lose their brains and their balls? Were they chemically castrated from the estrogens in plastics? Did they recognize the evil of their ways and as repentance allow themselves to be trampled? Don't tell me that it is because they were brainwashed by Joos. The white race I read about in history books was too smart to allow themselves to be conned by a bunch of Shylocks. When I read about the English who carried out the Opium War it is as if I am reading about a completely different race who are as different to modern Englishmen as Martians. What happened?

    What happened?

    Probably similar to what happened to the Hellenistic Greeks; the Romans; the Ottomans; etc.

    Includes: a groups’ initial advantage goes away when everyone else learns the trick; there’s a difference between building and expanding the brand, and maintaining what you’ve got.

  71. @JohnnyWalker123
    I think Indians have three economic advantages when they immigrate to first world nations.

    1. Indians are socially aggressive-loquacious and tribalistic. This is typical for West Asian ethnic groups (Mediterranean Euro, Levantine, Christian Arab, Persian, Arab, Middle Eastern, Jewish, etc) who inhabit ethnically-fractured, clannish regions. These West Asian ethnic groups (many of which are non-Muslim) are what could be called "Men with Gold Chains." Indians may have received this "Gold Chain" admixture into their population during the mass migration of Aryan/Yamnaya tribes.
    2. They are also into a culture of Tiger Mothering and "grinding." When you consider that Indians lived under conditions of intensive agriculture for thousands of years, this makes sense. Their agriculturalist environment probably selected for diligence, thrift, high-investment parenting, and "K" traits. Malthusian genetic and cultural selection......... This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates. Their Tiger Moms make them "grind" their way through courses.
    3. Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation's professional elite.
    So they're above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.

    Unfortunately, those "Gold Chain" characteristics probably screw up India to some extent. When a society is full of clannish/tribalistic types, there's an extreme amount of corruption and a lack of cooperation. It's difficult for an ethnically fragmented nation to build large-scale institutions or engage in positive sum interactions. This ends up crippling the society's potential.

    However, when Indians immigrate overseas, those "Gold Chain" characteristics make Indians adept at ethnic networking and being verbally assertive. Since networking and verbalizing are important traits to advancing in the American/Western corporate world, Indians benefit.

    So what screws them at home is helpful abroad.

    This seems to be true of many "Gold Chain" ethnic groups. Just look at how well Southern Italians and Greeks do abroad, compared to their lackluster performance at home. Look at Levantines. Look at Armenians.

    Bingo.

    Its kind of like invasive species. Sometimes taking something out of its natural habit allows it to thrive. Becoming much more successful because the local competition is not adapted to its ecological advantages. India is a giant tragedy of the commons, with each endogamous group striving massively to screw every other over but when removed from this type of conflict remain hardwired so run amuck in societies without similar networked predation groups.

    Human sociality adapts to reality much faster than natural biology though which is why you are beginning to see greater pushback. The greatest problem is that multicultural societies modeled on Western standards of fairness and reciprocity when confronted by this behavior adopt the same and prosocial behaviors are jettisoned in favor of more tribalism for everyone. One almost has to thank the Indians for what they are doing. The Jews have been running a similarly strategy much longer and more successfully because they can usually pass for the host population. Indians are visually discernable at the outset.

  72. That’s household income. As anyone who actually lives around Asians knows, their households might have 20 or more people living in a small 3 bedroom house or even an apartment if the landlord is Asian.

    20 people, 6 kids, 14 adults, 12 working low paid jobs, 2 bringing in $800 a month social security for the elderly even if they never worked in America a day in their lives.

    That household will have as big or bigger an income as a 2 high wage professional adult household.

    There are plenty of affirmative action Asian drs dentists engineers tech and other well paid Asian professionals. But the high household income stats don’t reflect the number of adults in Asian households.

  73. anon[348] • Disclaimer says:
    @indocon
    Filipinos, Koreans, and Vietnamese are 3 groups that Republicans need to focus like laser. For diverse set of reasons like natural affinity from being Catholic's for Filipinos to past issues with AA's for Koreans, these will not mingle in the coalition of fringes. These groups are dominant in few swing states like Georgia (Koreans) and Nevada (Filipinos).

    Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, and all of them like are heading to voting like AA's for Democrats. There is talk of natural hostility between Indians and Pakistanis, I don't think that will play any role in their enmass Democratic vote, Similar to how both Jews and Arabs are all Democrats.

    Japanese and Chinese will be like Hispanics, probably voting 70-30 for other side, but we may have some hope with them.

    This NPR poll shows that Vietnamese, Filipino and Chinese are the most pro-Trump:

    https://www.npr.org/2017/04/18/524371847/trump-lost-more-of-the-asian-american-vote-than-the-national-exit-polls-showed

    Other polls I’ve seen showed that Chinese and Vietnamese are the most likely to identify as Republican or Independent and voted for Trump.

    The South Asians are the most ardent Clinton supporters.

    S. Koreans used to be very Republican. They’ve vastly swung to the left in 2016.

    • Replies: @Anon
    S. Koreans used to be very Republican. They’ve vastly swung to the left in 2016.

    Korean Republicans care about success and status. They told their kids to study hard and go to good schools. The result is their kids being brainwashed by PC in college. Also, Koreans got no cultural sense. Having gone from peasantry to modernity in one generation, they feel no attachment to tradition(that now seems quaint or oppressive) and have pop culture as only culture. This is doubly true of Kors in the US as their parents just tell them to forget the past and just Americanize.... which today means PC, rap, and homo-worship.
  74. @Anonymous
    According to this site, Indians appear to have significantly higher incomes than other Asian groups:

    https://prosperitynow.org/blog/racial-wealth-snapshot-asian-americans

    Interestingly, after Indians, Filipinos have the highest incomes, higher than Japanese, Chinese, Koreans.

    If you control for education, Asians have lower incomes than whites:

    Asian Americans as a whole earn more than any racial category in the United States. But when educational attainment is factored in, Asian Americans still make less than White Americans. White American men with a bachelor’s degree earn $72,599 on average, while Asian American men with the same degree make $56,921. Though the disparity is smaller between white women and Asian American women, there still exists an income disparity that ranges up to $4,000 when looking at various educational levels.
     

    Philippines – average IQ 84, a shithole.

    China – average IQ 95, a commie shithole.

    Korea – average IQ 100, North Korea is a shithole, South Korea has peaked.

    India – average IQ 82, a shithole.

    We are getting their talented 10%. This talented 10% needs to be sent back to make the above countries great again.

  75. @Anonsgt
    Also keep in mind the debt load for Asians tends to be the lowest. High income in and of itself is only half the story

    Also keep in mind the debt load for Asians tends to be the lowest.

    But what about the gambling risk? That’s the Achilles heel for East Asians.

    There was that Asian guy who let his son freeze to death out in the car while he was transfixed in a Minnesota casino.

  76. @John Derbyshire
    Jungle Asians, not fancy Asians.

    Jungle Asians, not fancy Asians.

    I get the point, but those compiling the statistics probably aren’t slicing their pie wedges that thin. “Asians” may or not include Bangladeshis and various Indians.

  77. @Edward

    This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates.
     
    Or, there are just so many Indians that they're bound to produce so many software degree graduates. That, plus the fact that extreme poverty is declining in India, meaning that a Flynn-type effect will boost the IQs of those who have escaped it. If the average phenotypic IQ there is 83 as the latest data suggest, then getting rid of extreme poverty and malnutrition could push it into the early-to-mid 90s.

    Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation’s professional elite. So they’re above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.
     
    Obviously, the United States' highly selective immigration system explains the success of Indian-Americans. Jason Richwine reported (in the Forbes article below) that Indian-Americans have an average IQ of 112, and data from Arthur Hu from the 1990s suggest that Indian-Americans have higher average SAT scores than East Asian-Americans. For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

    For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).

    Caste might have something to do with it, but I think a big part of it is how much more economic opportunity is available in East Asia vs. India.

  78. @Anonymous
    Where's that sammich?

    Where’s that sammich?

  79. @Edward

    This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates.
     
    Or, there are just so many Indians that they're bound to produce so many software degree graduates. That, plus the fact that extreme poverty is declining in India, meaning that a Flynn-type effect will boost the IQs of those who have escaped it. If the average phenotypic IQ there is 83 as the latest data suggest, then getting rid of extreme poverty and malnutrition could push it into the early-to-mid 90s.

    Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation’s professional elite. So they’re above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.
     
    Obviously, the United States' highly selective immigration system explains the success of Indian-Americans. Jason Richwine reported (in the Forbes article below) that Indian-Americans have an average IQ of 112, and data from Arthur Hu from the 1990s suggest that Indian-Americans have higher average SAT scores than East Asian-Americans. For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

    The key is caste

    In California National Merit 2018, total 2200 finalists
    1100 east asian, 100 jews

    350 Indians , of whom 130 Brahmins

    And withn Brahmins, 60 Tamil Brahmins

    And among Tamil Speakers, 2% Tamil Brahmin, 98% Tamil Dravidian,
    Tamil Brahmin = 60, Tamil Dravidian = 15 ;
    Back in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu, the 98% Tamil Dravidians, need 69% quota to compete vs 2% Tamil Brahmins

    and of the visible Indian Americans, 6 Jat Sikhs and 9 Patels ; The UK Indian diaspora is 80% made up of Patels and Jat Sikhs

  80. East Asians in the West are going to end up being the Jews of the 21st century.

    Leftist whites don’t like them because Asian culture is inherently conservative and their success is embarrassing for the “oppressed POC” narrative. Rightist whites don’t like them because they aren’t white (unless they’re a charming and, hopefully, fair-skinned woman in which case they are a substitute for feminist white girls) and might have loyalties to the PRC. Hispanics and blacks hate and envy Asians, who are often the targets of brown hate crime.

    As America becomes more socially and racially disharmonious, whites and non-EA POCs are likely to bully or attack East Asians, knowing them to have money, or simply because they’re annoying gook chinks or lackeys of the capitalists.

    East Asians suck all this up because its not in their nature to complain or mobilize. Pretty much all politically engaged East Asian-Americans are shameless liberal virtue signalers like Eugene Gu or Sarah Jeong. Of course, there’s people like the photogenic pro-MAGA local candidate of New Mexico, Lisa Shin, or anti-communist writer Helen Raleigh, but these are outliers. I haven’t heard of any serious conservative Asian-American political organization, nor have I seen any particular efforts to win them over to the Right even though they would fit in nicely with their economic and cultural background.

    • Replies: @Uncle Peregrine
    Birtherism, which Steve has always rightly rejected was probably a strong signal of hostility to formerly Republican Asian groups.
  81. @Edward

    This might explain how Indians can do poorly on cognitive tests and still produce so many software degree graduates.
     
    Or, there are just so many Indians that they're bound to produce so many software degree graduates. That, plus the fact that extreme poverty is declining in India, meaning that a Flynn-type effect will boost the IQs of those who have escaped it. If the average phenotypic IQ there is 83 as the latest data suggest, then getting rid of extreme poverty and malnutrition could push it into the early-to-mid 90s.

    Indian-American migrants are disproportionately from the nation’s professional elite. So they’re above the Indian average in ability, education, drive, and verbal articulateness.
     
    Obviously, the United States' highly selective immigration system explains the success of Indian-Americans. Jason Richwine reported (in the Forbes article below) that Indian-Americans have an average IQ of 112, and data from Arthur Hu from the 1990s suggest that Indian-Americans have higher average SAT scores than East Asian-Americans. For some reason, selection works best on potential Indian immigrants (perhaps because of differences in average ability between castes?).

    https://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

    The only direct evidence we have comes from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey, in which a basic cognitive test called “digit span” was administered to a sample of newly arrived immigrant children.

    When statistical adjustments are used to convert the backward digit span results to full-scale IQ scores, Indian Americans place at about 112

    Ok, sounds legit.

  82. @Jack D
    You can't really compare Indians with tiny "Gold Chain" tribes like Armenians and Chechens. There are over a billion Indians spread out over a vast sub-continent with all sorts of cultures and languages, etc. - generalizing about "Indians" is as about as useful as generalizing about "Europeans" without considering that Norwegians are very different from Greeks.

    And in the US we are not getting a cross section of the Indian population - we are getting a small selected group from the top of the IQ distribution. This is the benefit of having over a billion people. Even if your national IQ is on the low side, you are STILL going to have millions and millions of high IQ people because when you multiply a small frequency times a very large number you still get a large number. The "talented tenth" of blacks in America never had a big impact because they are 3 million people in a nation of 300 million. But the "talented tenth" in India are 130 million people, which is more than the population of France and the UK combined.

    This is because you don’t understand Indians at all. If you had read Steve’s review of David Reich’s new book, you’d have a better of understanding of them.

    People tend to think of India, with its more than 1.3 billion people, as having a tremendously large population, and indeed many Indians as well as foreigners see it this way. But genetically, this is an incorrect way to view the situation. The Han Chinese are truly a large population. They have been mixing freely for thousands of years. In contrast, there are few if any Indian groups that are demographically very large, and the degree of genetic differentiation among Indian jati groups living side by side in the same village is typically two to three times higher than the genetic differentiation between northern and southern Europeans. The truth is that India is composed of a large number of small populations.

    Norwegians are actually closer related to Greeks that lived a thousand miles away than Indians of different castes that have been living in the same village for thousands of years. Think on the degree of segregation and tribal animosity it took to make that happen. Indians aren’t a people. They are a collection of hundreds of “gold chain” wearing tribes that have lived together yet simultaneously apart and their culture reflect this. You can’t compare Indians to tiny groups such as Armenians or Chechens. Indians are actually Armenians, AND Chechens, and Jews, and Gypsies, and various Arab Tribes, and Kurds, and Druze, and Dönmeh and basically every other small ethno-religious endogamous minority you can think of rolled into one country. India is the Ur multicultural-multiracial civilization par excellence and its function, or dysfunction, is the example of what people can expect when the West becomes truly “diverse” in the future.

  83. Anon[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    This NPR poll shows that Vietnamese, Filipino and Chinese are the most pro-Trump:

    https://www.npr.org/2017/04/18/524371847/trump-lost-more-of-the-asian-american-vote-than-the-national-exit-polls-showed

    Other polls I've seen showed that Chinese and Vietnamese are the most likely to identify as Republican or Independent and voted for Trump.

    The South Asians are the most ardent Clinton supporters.

    S. Koreans used to be very Republican. They've vastly swung to the left in 2016.

    S. Koreans used to be very Republican. They’ve vastly swung to the left in 2016.

    Korean Republicans care about success and status. They told their kids to study hard and go to good schools. The result is their kids being brainwashed by PC in college. Also, Koreans got no cultural sense. Having gone from peasantry to modernity in one generation, they feel no attachment to tradition(that now seems quaint or oppressive) and have pop culture as only culture. This is doubly true of Kors in the US as their parents just tell them to forget the past and just Americanize…. which today means PC, rap, and homo-worship.

  84. They’re still, sort of, in the coalition of the fringes. Once whites are eliminated, Asians may become the new Satan.

  85. @MikeW
    I can see why Indians edge out the rest. In my experience as an IT geek (plenty of asians of all stripes), the Indians had the best networking. Indian managers took care of their own.

    When my division shut down, most who found jobs elsewhere in the company were Indian, suspiciously hired by other Indians.
    Not necessarily a bad thing, just shows all ethnicities should pay more attention to networking.

    All ethnicities should pay mor3 attention to keeping their homelands for themselves.

  86. @Anonymous
    Where's that sammich?

    Hey, Rosie, while you’re in the kitchen, how about getting one for me, too? Swiss on rye with German mustard and lettuce. And a beer. Thanks, sweetheart.

  87. @Duke of Qin
    They aren't that nice. The thing with running tightly integrated ethnic networks is that you have keep the group cohesive by excluding lots of people. It isn't Indians helping one another persay but rather particular groups of Indians helping their own particular caste network by taking advantage of everyone else including Indians of the wrong caste. The more honest among them readily admit to whats going on.

    https://www.quora.com/Is-there-any-bias-among-Indians-of-hiring-other-Indian-workers-in-the-IT-industry


    Yes and no. Many Indians in IT firms don’t just discriminate at the national level, many of them discriminate on a religion, race or caste-level. It usually starts like this.They first look at your name in the resume. Is it a “cool” sounding Brahmin name? (like Anand Gopalakrishnan). Or is it a Punjabi name? (Parminder Singh). Or perhaps, it’s a Telugu name (Sudheer Reddy). Or does your name sound totally unheard of, hard to pronounce and possibly from a lower caste? (Pazhanimuththu Kanakadas). Godforbid, hopefully it isn’t a Muslim name (Imtiaz Khan), an Indian Christian name (David Kamaraj) or a Chinese name (Pang Pang)...

    Yes, actually there is. If you take a count of the total people hired in US in IT, you will find that 90 to 95% of them are from Andhra Pradesh in India. I have worked for several companies in the bay area and other states and inspite of my experience and skills was always threatened by a incapable Telugu manager, Lead or candidate who only wanted to hire people of his caste. As if this was not enough, most of the Indian recruiting companies in the Bay Area are run by Telugu people who prefer to hire people from their region/caste and also work hand in hand with hiring managers to give a commission off the rates they make. This is very well known and widely practiced in companies such as CISCO and many others in the bay area. There are instances when my recruiting company told me that my resume didnt stand a chance, because the other recruting company that was working with this client was bribing managers to get their folks in. The result you see is incompetent inexperienced people who get hired for low rates, the cuts off salary goes to the recruiting company and hiring manager...

    Indians follow caste system where ever they move so it's not a surprise or shock if Indians hire only Indians by erase EEOC model in USA, Canada etc. I received emails from a boy in Canada how TCS displace locals. There is huge discrimination among Indian folks in caste, visa, PR/GC etc...

    I didn’t want to believe it either but it’s 100% true - especially in the Bay Area. I started noticing that 99% of the interviewing managers at a particular client, a large corporation, were Indian. I also started noticing that 99% of all my fellow vendors were Indian as well. I thought it was strange but I was new to servicing a client in the Bay Area. After ages of watching top-notch candidates get rejected with no reason or false reaons, especially my white and asian candidates, I knew something was up. The candidates all said the feedback (when we got it) made no sense, that the interviewer was rude to them, that the interview was impossibly short, heavy accent was challenging, questions were surface level etc. They were just staging these “interviews” to try and cover their rears, so they could hire their fellow Indians...

    Sad to see such comments in India. Not every Indian is like this. There are a lots of honest people but sadly due to discremination they never come up. It's not that these people give jobs to other Indians, but rather they give to their own family members or within communities. I see some one mentioning some class in upper management role and others in below role is a very true observations...

     

    I've been told by an acquaintance that due to changes in promotional procedures, that many of the departments at Microsoft have erupted into de facto race wars with caste Indians on one side and Chinese + most everyone else on the other. Suffice it to say that productivity is not what it once was. On the bright side, Americans can look forward to being culturally enriched by vibrant new overlords.

    No wonder Windows 10 is becoming so sh*tty now that Indians have taken over Microsoft!

  88. @Wallfacer
    East Asians in the West are going to end up being the Jews of the 21st century.

    Leftist whites don't like them because Asian culture is inherently conservative and their success is embarrassing for the "oppressed POC" narrative. Rightist whites don't like them because they aren't white (unless they're a charming and, hopefully, fair-skinned woman in which case they are a substitute for feminist white girls) and might have loyalties to the PRC. Hispanics and blacks hate and envy Asians, who are often the targets of brown hate crime.

    As America becomes more socially and racially disharmonious, whites and non-EA POCs are likely to bully or attack East Asians, knowing them to have money, or simply because they're annoying gook chinks or lackeys of the capitalists.

    East Asians suck all this up because its not in their nature to complain or mobilize. Pretty much all politically engaged East Asian-Americans are shameless liberal virtue signalers like Eugene Gu or Sarah Jeong. Of course, there's people like the photogenic pro-MAGA local candidate of New Mexico, Lisa Shin, or anti-communist writer Helen Raleigh, but these are outliers. I haven't heard of any serious conservative Asian-American political organization, nor have I seen any particular efforts to win them over to the Right even though they would fit in nicely with their economic and cultural background.

    Birtherism, which Steve has always rightly rejected was probably a strong signal of hostility to formerly Republican Asian groups.

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