The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Are Thoroughbreds Actually Getting Faster?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Because thoroughbred race horses are thoroughly bred, you might think that they would be getting faster at least as fast as human runners have been.

But that hasn’t been obvious.

For example, all three of Secretariat’s 1973 records in the American Triple Crown races for 3-year-olds still stand. (Originally, Secretariat was not credited with the Preakness record but a review of the videotape in 2012 showed that the original timing was faulty).

In contrast, in men’s track, the oldest current record is Kevin Young’s 400 m hurdle time at the 1992 Olympics. In women’s track, quite a few records go back to the 1980s before stronger drug testing was imposed after the 1988 Olympics, but no women’s running records are as old as Secretariat’s marks.

It’s been widely stated that thoroughbreds aren’t getting faster.

In the English-speaking world, thoroughbreds have been bred relatively methodically for several centuries. Shakespeare, for example, used the word “race” to mean both a breed (e.g., “a noble race of kings”) and a competition of running speed. The obvious overlap was the nationwide goal of developing a race of racehorses.

So it is possible that most of the potential has been wrung out of them already.

However, a 2015 study of British racehorses from 1850 onward came to the conclusion that there has been a post-Secretariat surge in speed, especially at shorter distances:

Racehorses are getting faster
Patrick Sharman, Alastair J. Wilson
Published 24 June 2015 .DOI: 10.1098/rsbl.2015.0310

Abstract

Previous studies have concluded that thoroughbred racehorse speed is improving very slowly, if at all, despite heritable variation for performance and putatively intensive selective breeding. This has led to the suggestion that racehorses have reached a selection limit. However, previous studies have been limited, focusing only on the winning times of a few elite races run over middle and long distances, and failing to account for potentially confounding factors. Using a much larger dataset covering the full range of race distances and accounting for variation in factors such as ground softness, we show that improvement is, in fact, ongoing for the population as a whole, but driven largely by increasing speed in sprint races. In contrast, speed over middle and long distances, at least at the elite level, appears to be reaching an asymptote. Whether this reflects a selection limit to speed over middle and long distances or a shift in breeding practices to target sprint performances remains to be determined.

They found a plateau from 1910 into the 1970s, but a resurgence of improvement in recent decades.

Here’s a graph showing that records have been following recently for very short distances, but less so for long distances:

dirt track

The records for the short distances have largely been set in the 21st century, which is less true for longer distances.

One possible reason for the enhancement in sprinting over endurance since the 1970s is the huge genealogical influence of Northern Dancer, winner of 1964 Kentucky Derby and Preakness (but not the longer Belmont). He set the Kentucky Derby mark that Secretariat broke, and Northern Dancer’s 2:00.0 flat has only been bested once since Secretariat, by Monarchos in 2001. Northern Dancer was a small, fast horse who retired to become the leading sire of the past 60 years.

When Roger Bannister broke the 4 minute mile in 1954, after a long stretch from 1945 without a new world record, it led to a rapid burst of better times. In the Kentucky Derby, Northern Dancer reached the 2 minute barrier in 1964 and Secretariat broke it in 1973, but then nothing much happened.

How much is record breaking in human running a social construct? Running is a fairly marginal sport. In between Olympics, the main way to get your name on the TV sports report is to break a world record. For example, Sir Dr. Roger Bannister, who is now 88, has enjoyed a more kick-ass life for what he did back in May 1954 than if he’s run 4:00.1. (A guy I knew in the marketing research business was at the Oxford track that day as a 12 year old spectator and could recount P.A. announcer Norris “Guinness Book of World Records” McWhirter’s famous announcement: “… in a time which, subject to ratification, is a track record, an English native record, a United Kingdom record, a European record, in a time of three minutes…”)

Jockeys, on the other hand, are seldom incentivized to care about breaking records. Horses don’t care about breaking records. They do, however, appear to care about beating the other horses.

That raises the question of whether Secretariat, who, in the most famous moment in American racing history, won the Belmont by 31 lengths (I was playing in a baseball game that ground to a halt while everybody listened to the race on the radio) and setting a record of 2:24 , cared about running fast for the sake of running fast.

 
Hide 94 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
    []
  1. Horses in general are getting faster.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    A few years ago when I was interested in baseball, I went to the Oakland A's games. To my amazement the crowd always got the most excited over "Dot racing" - not the game itself. If you don't know, Dot Racing is a pseudo horse or foot race where everyone is encouraged to root for an electronically generated Dot which races in a circle on the stadium scoreboard against other colored Dots.

    It is sort of like the chariot races of ancient Rome - you picked a color and screamed your approval. But of course the winning Dot was determined in the control room. Yet the crown at the A's stadium didn't seem to care. The important elements seemed to be the presence of the crowd not the characteristics of the racers. So after we have outlawed boxing and football. Maybe we will similarly outlaw horse racing. The evidence is that it won't matter. People will still gather and root for anything that races - even electronic dots.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    /isteve/are-thoroughbreds-actually-getting-faster/#comment-2016317
    More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  2. why didn’t you mention horse doping? when did it start? is it getting better? or did it get better than tail off bc evading the tests became more important?

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Kabala
    Wasn't there a time when Margaret Thatcher (not yet prime minister) gave a great impassioned speech in the House of Commons and one of the newspapers said "If she were a horse she would have been tested for steroids?" Steroids must have made inroads into human sports by that time, but apparently in mid-1970s Britain they were still mostly associated with horses.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Maybe horses are smart enough to know that they don’t have to outrun a 40-yr-old record. They only have to outrun the other horses in today’s race.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  4. unit472 says:

    Don’t want to take anything away from the great ‘Secretariat’ but just maybe he had a better vet than other racehorses in 1973. Winning a race by 20 plus lengths is rather unusual.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    In 1973 doping was easier. The 80’s & 90’s saw big crackdowns on doping.
    , @Bill Jones
    I saw somewhere that Secretariat had a heart that was basically twice the size of the average.
    , @pyrrhus
    It has long been rumored in the racing community that Secretariat received steroids when he was a yearling, which would also have something to do with his somewhat disappointing performance as a sire....As to track records, most racetracks have been made less deep and therefore faster in the last 40 years. In fact, the inbreeding of the Bold Ruler line has resulted in a shortage of horses who are sprinters and can't run much past a mile.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. njguy73 says:

    At the time of Secretariat’s death, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, did not weigh Secretariat’s heart, but stated, “We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn’t believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine.”…he estimated Secretariat’s heart probably weighed 22 pounds (10.0 kg), or about 2.5 times that of the average horse (8.5 pounds (3.9 kg)).

    An extremely large heart is a trait that occasionally occurs in Thoroughbreds, hypothesized to be linked to a genetic condition, called the “x-factor”, passed down in specific inheritance patterns…The x-factor can be traced to the historic racehorse Eclipse, who was necropsied after his death in 1789…pedigree research verified that Secretariat traces in his dam line to a daughter of Eclipse. Secretariat’s success as a broodmare sire has been linked by some to this large heart theory. However, it has not been proven whether the x-factor exists, let alone increases athletic ability.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_(horse)#Death

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don't inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.
    , @With the thoughts you'd be thinkin
    Australia's most famous horse is another descendant of Eclipse and had a similarly massive heart, which is preserved and in a museum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phar_Lap
    , @cthulhu
    Eclipse was descended from the Godolphin Arabian, immortalized in Marguerite Henry's award-winning children's book King of the Wind. A marvelous book, highly recommended for any curious child (of any age!).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. @njguy73

    At the time of Secretariat's death, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, did not weigh Secretariat's heart, but stated, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn't believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."...he estimated Secretariat's heart probably weighed 22 pounds (10.0 kg), or about 2.5 times that of the average horse (8.5 pounds (3.9 kg)).

    An extremely large heart is a trait that occasionally occurs in Thoroughbreds, hypothesized to be linked to a genetic condition, called the "x-factor", passed down in specific inheritance patterns...The x-factor can be traced to the historic racehorse Eclipse, who was necropsied after his death in 1789...pedigree research verified that Secretariat traces in his dam line to a daughter of Eclipse. Secretariat's success as a broodmare sire has been linked by some to this large heart theory. However, it has not been proven whether the x-factor exists, let alone increases athletic ability.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_(horse)#Death

    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don’t inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Are you talking about race horses or politics?
    , @Anonym
    Two potential approaches are possible with selective breeding. One is just a blind process selecting just the "fastest" or whatever the single variable is. The other is taking an animal that is as close to perfect as possible and then breeding with other animals to fix the flaws (i.e. the trait you want matches the flawed trait), knowing that even the best have areas for improvement.
    , @Desiderius
    Are you talking about racehorses or nice white ladies?
    , @Sayless
    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don't inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    That's true. Without a vascular system to support it, a huge heart would be a congenital defect. Secretariat was a very healthy animal. He must have had a lot more oxygen going to his cells than much of the rest of the field.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    My mother was bitten in the face by a horse that was a descendant of Northern Dancer. Her plastic surgeon called it “Northern Biter”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Equine Tall Tales!

    But seriously, one of the more far-fetched explanations for plastic surgery that I've ever heard!
    , @Steve Sailer
    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Dave Pinsen
    My mother was bitten in the face by a horse that was a descendant of Northern Dancer. Her plastic surgeon called it "Northern Biter".

    Equine Tall Tales!

    But seriously, one of the more far-fetched explanations for plastic surgery that I’ve ever heard!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    A lot of plastic surgery is repair work from accidents, diseases, and surgeries to treat both.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. @Dave Pinsen
    My mother was bitten in the face by a horse that was a descendant of Northern Dancer. Her plastic surgeon called it "Northern Biter".

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    They're dangerous animals. My mother's horses usually get their stalls mucked out while they're out in a paddock. But you still have to go in the stall with them to bring them back in, feed them, water them, etc.
    , @Stan d Mute

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.
     
    Sorry for your friend, but I confess to much amusement whenever the city kid or SJW types have a rude awakening to the power of a 1500# animal. Every farm boy knows not to mess around the back end of a horse (or donkey or mule) and avoid the front if the animal comes off it’s front hooves. I’ve seen so many idiots trying to give sugar cubes to horses improperly (ie not on an open palm) that the kick injuries are completely unsurprising. There is also a big difference between a very high strung thoroughbred and a draft horse in temperament.

    It’s only one degree of stupid away from the imbeciles who think they will be safe among brown bears. They’d all be trying to snuggle with cute little wolverines if they could find them.
    , @Clyde

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.
     
    Back around 1986 I knew a guy who got kicked by a cow. Next time around he brained it with an iron bar across its forehead. Yes, stupid cow did feel and react to this iron bar and walked around dazed for a while.

    About that time I mucked out stalls into my pick up truck for a friends organic garden. No animals were around in the barn. They are stupid and dangerous as the day is long. My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. OT: Must read. Princeton PhD makes positive case for colonialism. And then promptly apologizes.

    Snippet:

    Colonialism is credited with near-magical powers to sweep away everything good in its path (like tribal chiefs or ethnic identity) and with equally magical powers to make permanent everything bad in its path (like tribal chiefs or ethnic identity).

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew
    Wow, how did that article even make it past the reviewing process? How has Gilley himself survived so long, as the article seems not out of line with his standing reputation — http://remezcla.com/culture/bruce-gilley-colonization. Sounds like he's told more than a few SJW characters at his college to, basically, f off. And in Portland yet!

    I wish he'd been the master of that Yale College dorm, during the Haloween costume crisis a few years back.

    Sad to say, I'm old enough to remember when you could have a civil discussion about colonialism, in academe.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. @njguy73

    At the time of Secretariat's death, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, did not weigh Secretariat's heart, but stated, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn't believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."...he estimated Secretariat's heart probably weighed 22 pounds (10.0 kg), or about 2.5 times that of the average horse (8.5 pounds (3.9 kg)).

    An extremely large heart is a trait that occasionally occurs in Thoroughbreds, hypothesized to be linked to a genetic condition, called the "x-factor", passed down in specific inheritance patterns...The x-factor can be traced to the historic racehorse Eclipse, who was necropsied after his death in 1789...pedigree research verified that Secretariat traces in his dam line to a daughter of Eclipse. Secretariat's success as a broodmare sire has been linked by some to this large heart theory. However, it has not been proven whether the x-factor exists, let alone increases athletic ability.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_(horse)#Death

    Australia’s most famous horse is another descendant of Eclipse and had a similarly massive heart, which is preserved and in a museum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phar_Lap

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. Neoconned says:

    Sounds like N. Dancer was a real stud….

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  13. @Steve Sailer
    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don't inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    Are you talking about race horses or politics?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    #whitepeople #pathologicalaltruism
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. Brabantian says: • Website

    OT but notable … Noted ex-CIA agent tweets link to Unz Review … gets gang-attacked by establishment, ends up grovelling & apologising

    Valerie Plame [Wilson], CIA agent famous in past decade re G W Bush White House scandals, pretend ‘investigation’ of Bush White House crimes by corrupt prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, the tiny Scooter Libby indictment & Bush pardon -

    Valerie Plame had just tweeted a link to Phil Giraldi’s popular Unz article, “America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars”

    Plame, who is Jewish herself, was immediately ravaged by her own ‘friends’ and allies … she briefly tried to defend her link to Unz, saying that Giraldi was “very provocative, but thoughtful … Many neocon hawks ARE Jewish,” Plame insisted … but in the end she folded, & Plame began tweeting a series of apologies claiming she didn’t read the article carefully … despite the crystal-clear article title

    But the neo-con establishment does not forgive, & is excavating further ‘dirt’ on Plame … such as that she has *linked before to Philip Giraldi* … a serial Unz-linker, no less!

    Story here on TheHill com, snidely disparaging Unz with double-quote contemptuous condescension

    The Unz Review, an online magazine that bills itself as an “alternative” to the “mainstream media.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You know what they say, so long as they spell your name right...
    , @Desiderius
    This cements my decision to drop twitter.

    My feed is full of usually sane people doing their best SJW dance.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    Trying to interpret those scare quotes, I get, "There is no 'mainstream media,' therefore there can be no 'alternative.'" Otherwise it makes no sense to me to put quotes around "alternative." It's impossible to be an alternative to something?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Brabantian
    OT but notable ... Noted ex-CIA agent tweets link to Unz Review ... gets gang-attacked by establishment, ends up grovelling & apologising

    Valerie Plame [Wilson], CIA agent famous in past decade re G W Bush White House scandals, pretend 'investigation' of Bush White House crimes by corrupt prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, the tiny Scooter Libby indictment & Bush pardon -

    Valerie Plame had just tweeted a link to Phil Giraldi's popular Unz article, “America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars”

    Plame, who is Jewish herself, was immediately ravaged by her own 'friends' and allies ... she briefly tried to defend her link to Unz, saying that Giraldi was "very provocative, but thoughtful ... Many neocon hawks ARE Jewish," Plame insisted ... but in the end she folded, & Plame began tweeting a series of apologies claiming she didn't read the article carefully ... despite the crystal-clear article title

    But the neo-con establishment does not forgive, & is excavating further 'dirt' on Plame ... such as that she has *linked before to Philip Giraldi* ... a serial Unz-linker, no less!

    Story here on TheHill com, snidely disparaging Unz with double-quote contemptuous condescension

    The Unz Review, an online magazine that bills itself as an “alternative” to the “mainstream media.”
     

    You know what they say, so long as they spell your name right…

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    Equine Tall Tales!

    But seriously, one of the more far-fetched explanations for plastic surgery that I've ever heard!

    A lot of plastic surgery is repair work from accidents, diseases, and surgeries to treat both.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. @Brabantian
    OT but notable ... Noted ex-CIA agent tweets link to Unz Review ... gets gang-attacked by establishment, ends up grovelling & apologising

    Valerie Plame [Wilson], CIA agent famous in past decade re G W Bush White House scandals, pretend 'investigation' of Bush White House crimes by corrupt prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, the tiny Scooter Libby indictment & Bush pardon -

    Valerie Plame had just tweeted a link to Phil Giraldi's popular Unz article, “America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars”

    Plame, who is Jewish herself, was immediately ravaged by her own 'friends' and allies ... she briefly tried to defend her link to Unz, saying that Giraldi was "very provocative, but thoughtful ... Many neocon hawks ARE Jewish," Plame insisted ... but in the end she folded, & Plame began tweeting a series of apologies claiming she didn't read the article carefully ... despite the crystal-clear article title

    But the neo-con establishment does not forgive, & is excavating further 'dirt' on Plame ... such as that she has *linked before to Philip Giraldi* ... a serial Unz-linker, no less!

    Story here on TheHill com, snidely disparaging Unz with double-quote contemptuous condescension

    The Unz Review, an online magazine that bills itself as an “alternative” to the “mainstream media.”
     

    This cements my decision to drop twitter.

    My feed is full of usually sane people doing their best SJW dance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dcthrowback
    then obviously you're following the wrong people
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  18. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer
    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.

    They’re dangerous animals. My mother’s horses usually get their stalls mucked out while they’re out in a paddock. But you still have to go in the stall with them to bring them back in, feed them, water them, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @slumber_j

    They’re dangerous animals.
     
    Yes, they are. I don't know all that many people who ride, but two friends of mine were killed by horses.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. Altai says:

    Maybe you just can’t run them into the ground or give them certain peds anymore. They’re certainly now expanding into full on genetic testing the last few years.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  20. Anonym says:
    @Steve Sailer
    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don't inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    Two potential approaches are possible with selective breeding. One is just a blind process selecting just the “fastest” or whatever the single variable is. The other is taking an animal that is as close to perfect as possible and then breeding with other animals to fix the flaws (i.e. the trait you want matches the flawed trait), knowing that even the best have areas for improvement.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. @Chrisnonymous
    Are you talking about race horses or politics?

    #whitepeople #pathologicalaltruism

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. As announcer Chic Anderson said that day “He is moving like a tremendous machine.” Hand-ridden to a record that will remain forever.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  23. Steve,

    David Brooks on Sam Francis:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/business-war-trump.html

    Dangerously non-unsympathetic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DJohn1
    Yes. Unusual for Brooks. A balanced assessment followed by the necessary CYA.
    , @Barnard

    As the tech behemoths intrude more deeply into daily life and our very minds, they will become a defining issue in American politics. It wouldn’t surprise me if a new demagogue emerged, one that is even more pure Francis.
     
    I took paragraphs like this as more of a warning to the establishment that they need to be prepared to crush the next populist after Trump.

    Francis told a conference, “The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”
     
    Brooks made sure everyone knows thinking this is still considered beyond the pale. I would love to hear the reasons we should believe our civilization can be successfully transferred to a different people complete with examples.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. I like to look at the Kentucky Derby for speed comparisons over time. The race is watched by millions so there’s less chance of it being rigged in some way. Also there is a huge incentive to not just win it but also break 2:00, beat Secretariat’s time, train a horse to run the Derby etc. American Pharaoh won in 2015 at 2:03, that’s a typical time for the Derby since about 1910. Old Rosebud ran 2:03.4 in 1914. War Admiral 2:03.2 in 1937. So I’m not sure thoroughbreds are getting any faster. There may just be improving incentives for getting faster in these shorter distance races.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  25. dcthrowback says: • Website
    @Desiderius
    This cements my decision to drop twitter.

    My feed is full of usually sane people doing their best SJW dance.

    then obviously you’re following the wrong people

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Indeed.

    Hence cancelling twitter.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. I don’t know if they’re getting faster but it does seem that they’re getting more fragile, bred to have lighter bone and easily-broken legs.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  27. The Z Blog says: • Website

    “He is like a tremendous machine” is one of those announcer lines that just perfectly captures the moment. I was a little kid and I still remember everyone repeating that line. It’s like Al Michaels saying “Do you believe in miracles.”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  28. DJohn1 says:
    @Desiderius
    Steve,

    David Brooks on Sam Francis:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/business-war-trump.html

    Dangerously non-unsympathetic.

    Yes. Unusual for Brooks. A balanced assessment followed by the necessary CYA.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. So is HBD now Horse Bio-Diversity?

    I grew up around horse breeders, owners, and racers. Not Derby level by any means but nevertheless done for profit. Every one of them spent time in the penalty box with at least a couple “banned for life” for fixing races. There is SO much opportunity for shenanigans in horse racing with various doping schemes, jockeys holding back their horses, doping competitors’ horses, collusion among owners, etc. And at the top of the “sport” an important question is whether the passions of the super-rich (ie Bill Gates buying a street with every house on it in Wellington to indulge his daughter’s pony passion) has shifted focus from racing to prancing or cutting or whatever. A guy with Gates’ money or the Johnson heiress (who was recently seen kicking her horse) can have a big spillover effect on how breeders and trainers focus their energies.

    A better analysis that removes some of the human factors may be dog racing. You still have the doping issues, but nobody is riding the greyhounds and no billionaires’ kids are getting their panties in a twist over who gets the best dogs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Man From K Street
    Just so. Horse racing is, and always has been, as crooked as the horse's hind leg. Looking for hard scientific HBD-relevant data in such a mob-infested, opaque business is worse than useless.

    Look, we've talked about the advisability of the "woke" WM to tune out sportsball...how much more so the seedy remnants of what used to be one of the biggest sports in America? If you want to bet on something, fine...but bet on something where you can accurately calculate the mathematical odds (cards and dice). Not on a dumb animal where anything can happen.
    , @dr kill
    There's no place in the world like Wellington, even if you can only afford Loxahatchee.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. @Steve Sailer
    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don't inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    Are you talking about racehorses or nice white ladies?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  31. @dcthrowback
    then obviously you're following the wrong people

    Indeed.

    Hence cancelling twitter.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  32. @Steve Sailer
    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.

    Sorry for your friend, but I confess to much amusement whenever the city kid or SJW types have a rude awakening to the power of a 1500# animal. Every farm boy knows not to mess around the back end of a horse (or donkey or mule) and avoid the front if the animal comes off it’s front hooves. I’ve seen so many idiots trying to give sugar cubes to horses improperly (ie not on an open palm) that the kick injuries are completely unsurprising. There is also a big difference between a very high strung thoroughbred and a draft horse in temperament.

    It’s only one degree of stupid away from the imbeciles who think they will be safe among brown bears. They’d all be trying to snuggle with cute little wolverines if they could find them.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  33. Barnard says:
    @Desiderius
    Steve,

    David Brooks on Sam Francis:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/business-war-trump.html

    Dangerously non-unsympathetic.

    As the tech behemoths intrude more deeply into daily life and our very minds, they will become a defining issue in American politics. It wouldn’t surprise me if a new demagogue emerged, one that is even more pure Francis.

    I took paragraphs like this as more of a warning to the establishment that they need to be prepared to crush the next populist after Trump.

    Francis told a conference, “The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”

    Brooks made sure everyone knows thinking this is still considered beyond the pale. I would love to hear the reasons we should believe our civilization can be successfully transferred to a different people complete with examples.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Brooks made sure everyone knows thinking this is still considered beyond the pale.
     
    Of course. The change is that he actually quoted it instead of lobbing the usual vague calumnies.

    That's a huge risk.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  34. Horse racing is often tactical like human distance racing. Mo Farah has several Olympic golds, but has never set a world record. He has a tremendously fast finish and almost always outsprints his opponents over the last lap.

    In horse racing, there are a few horses that are known as frontrunners, that prefer to just go to the head of the field and run as fast as possible, so are more likely to set records assuming good track and weather conditions. Presumably this has something to do with innate behavior of groups of horses galloping together, dominance, etc.

    The majority of top horses and big race winners run with the field and then come with a ‘wet sail’ over the last furlong or two to get their noses in front at the winning post. Obviously this tactic depends a lot more on the jockey than the horse, though the horse still has to have the ability to accelerate when the whip is applied.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  35. @unit472
    Don't want to take anything away from the great 'Secretariat' but just maybe he had a better vet than other racehorses in 1973. Winning a race by 20 plus lengths is rather unusual.

    In 1973 doping was easier. The 80’s & 90’s saw big crackdowns on doping.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. Sayless says:

    Secretariat’s length of stride was 25 feet; so was Man O’ War’s.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  37. @Brabantian
    OT but notable ... Noted ex-CIA agent tweets link to Unz Review ... gets gang-attacked by establishment, ends up grovelling & apologising

    Valerie Plame [Wilson], CIA agent famous in past decade re G W Bush White House scandals, pretend 'investigation' of Bush White House crimes by corrupt prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, the tiny Scooter Libby indictment & Bush pardon -

    Valerie Plame had just tweeted a link to Phil Giraldi's popular Unz article, “America’s Jews Are Driving America’s Wars”

    Plame, who is Jewish herself, was immediately ravaged by her own 'friends' and allies ... she briefly tried to defend her link to Unz, saying that Giraldi was "very provocative, but thoughtful ... Many neocon hawks ARE Jewish," Plame insisted ... but in the end she folded, & Plame began tweeting a series of apologies claiming she didn't read the article carefully ... despite the crystal-clear article title

    But the neo-con establishment does not forgive, & is excavating further 'dirt' on Plame ... such as that she has *linked before to Philip Giraldi* ... a serial Unz-linker, no less!

    Story here on TheHill com, snidely disparaging Unz with double-quote contemptuous condescension

    The Unz Review, an online magazine that bills itself as an “alternative” to the “mainstream media.”
     

    Trying to interpret those scare quotes, I get, “There is no ‘mainstream media,’ therefore there can be no ‘alternative.’” Otherwise it makes no sense to me to put quotes around “alternative.” It’s impossible to be an alternative to something?

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    There's no interpretation based on logic.

    The scare quotes just mean fuck you.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  38. @Harry Baldwin
    Trying to interpret those scare quotes, I get, "There is no 'mainstream media,' therefore there can be no 'alternative.'" Otherwise it makes no sense to me to put quotes around "alternative." It's impossible to be an alternative to something?

    There’s no interpretation based on logic.

    The scare quotes just mean fuck you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    The scare quotes just mean fuck you.
     
    That is true. They are also a reference to the supposedly damning appeal to alternative facts by Conway after the inaugural.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  39. slumber_j says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    They're dangerous animals. My mother's horses usually get their stalls mucked out while they're out in a paddock. But you still have to go in the stall with them to bring them back in, feed them, water them, etc.

    They’re dangerous animals.

    Yes, they are. I don’t know all that many people who ride, but two friends of mine were killed by horses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy


    They’re dangerous animals.
     
    Yes, they are. I don’t know all that many people who ride, but two friends of mine were killed by horses.
     
    More dangerous than motorcycles. And by a long shot. Think of all those nineteenth century novels, people were forever getting killed/injured riding.

    https://www.ruralweekly.com.au/news/horses-more-dangerous-than-riding-motorbikes/3121858/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  40. Look at the sizes of horse and people populations competing over time.

    World people population grows rapidly. Due to the 1986 Olympics decision to allow professionals, the percentage of people trying to compete has grown too. To support this assertion compare the record times of Soviet bloc athletes (who were de facto pro) to Western athletes in the 1980 to 2000 period; the latter should show more improvement.

    How has the population of horses competing changed? Does it too grow exponentially? The numbers may in fact be hampered by selective (in)breeding.

    This opens an interesting possibility. It’s conceivable that a population bred purely for a single trait is worse at producing standout individuals with that trait vs a population bred at random (to be more precise, as in the case of humans, not bred for speed only, but assortatively bred according to a host of desirable traits). Yet, if you’re a horse breeder, your best chance of getting a champion horse is to get your prize filly seeded by Secretariat’s line. This would be a tragedy of the commons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Wrong. Secretariat is widely known as a Broodmare Sire. Have a Seattle Slew colt breed your Secretariat mare if you want to have a valuable foal. This would only set you back 300k (AP Indy) at his peak. TBs need to live cover, so (wink wink) 50 years ago there were 40 mares to a stallion's annual book. The American quest for profit eventually raised this number into the 80's, and then they send them to the Southern Hemisphere to breed all winter as well. Since there are over 20k TB foals born every year in the States, 80 from an individual colt isn't really the tragedy you infer.
    And also an important point about horses, any breed, people are breeding for heart, and hoping for talent. Horses are more like people than other animals. Some have talent and no heart, some will kill themselves for you but can't outrun me. When talent and heart both show up, then you have a horse.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  41. Are Thoroughbreds Actually Getting Faster?

    Oh, horses.

    I was expecting Jamaicans and/or Kenyans.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  42. @silviosilver
    OT: Must read. Princeton PhD makes positive case for colonialism. And then promptly apologizes.

    Snippet:


    Colonialism is credited with near-magical powers to sweep away everything good in its path (like tribal chiefs or ethnic identity) and with equally magical powers to make permanent everything bad in its path (like tribal chiefs or ethnic identity).
     

    Wow, how did that article even make it past the reviewing process? How has Gilley himself survived so long, as the article seems not out of line with his standing reputation — http://remezcla.com/culture/bruce-gilley-colonization. Sounds like he’s told more than a few SJW characters at his college to, basically, f off. And in Portland yet!

    I wish he’d been the master of that Yale College dorm, during the Haloween costume crisis a few years back.

    Sad to say, I’m old enough to remember when you could have a civil discussion about colonialism, in academe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    And yet now he cowers.

    Things come to a head.
    , @silviosilver
    Apparently they're now claiming it wasn't properly reviewed blah blah.

    It took me by surprise. I'm not used to reading mainstream material that just makes a hard-hitting anti-PC case right out of the gate [my contribution to the horse-racing topic, heh]. Unfortunately, the author would probably have been better taking a more apologetic tone. As it stands, his case is too powerfully argued for its own good.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  43. Lagertha says:

    As a teenager, I worked with race horses every summer. I would like to have a horse now, but time prevents me from having one…oh well, maybe when I am 70.

    It is absolutely true that Thoroughbreds have sort of plateaued. Or, maybe it is a question of reaching peak performance as species ( they are just not going to be as fast as a cheetah). Secretariat, and a few others, were just those top runners that appear like comets…but you all know that.

    However, the drug use and putting too many, barely, 2-year-olds on tracks too early was a BIG mistake in the 90′s and early 2000′s, and likely, made everyone re-think how to train a winner. Nothing worse than an audience seeing a young horse shatter its leg in front of you at the races. So, owners have scaled-back pushing young horses onto tracks. After all, all thoroughbreds are expensive….and insurance is a bitch with animals (colic knocks out Thoroughbreds easily).

    But you are correct about all horses wanting to beat other horses. The best, scariest, wildest rides I have ever been on (fell off numerous times in first ride) were in the Cotswolds in the rain (a 2-day ride; thank god for the pub breaks), and with Mormon teenagers in the Utah wilderness. It was scary but exhilarating because both unremarkable, and smallish horses I rode, wanted to be the fastest! With the Mormons, the teenage leader, would not allow my horse to go beyond his lead horse…he used barrel racing techniques to get his horse to block-butt mine (we were on narrow, high, backcountry trails). He kept telling me, “don’t worry, I won’t let him get past me because he will throw you the moment he gets a chance.” My husband asked me how I liked my solo ride with the teenagers, and I was still catching my breath….but it was the best ride, ever. Even a huge mule deer jumped over our trail, seconds before possible crash.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lagertha
    butt-block (horses are very good at that), not block-butt, in my post!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  44. Lagertha says:
    @Lagertha
    As a teenager, I worked with race horses every summer. I would like to have a horse now, but time prevents me from having one...oh well, maybe when I am 70.

    It is absolutely true that Thoroughbreds have sort of plateaued. Or, maybe it is a question of reaching peak performance as species ( they are just not going to be as fast as a cheetah). Secretariat, and a few others, were just those top runners that appear like comets...but you all know that.

    However, the drug use and putting too many, barely, 2-year-olds on tracks too early was a BIG mistake in the 90's and early 2000's, and likely, made everyone re-think how to train a winner. Nothing worse than an audience seeing a young horse shatter its leg in front of you at the races. So, owners have scaled-back pushing young horses onto tracks. After all, all thoroughbreds are expensive....and insurance is a bitch with animals (colic knocks out Thoroughbreds easily).

    But you are correct about all horses wanting to beat other horses. The best, scariest, wildest rides I have ever been on (fell off numerous times in first ride) were in the Cotswolds in the rain (a 2-day ride; thank god for the pub breaks), and with Mormon teenagers in the Utah wilderness. It was scary but exhilarating because both unremarkable, and smallish horses I rode, wanted to be the fastest! With the Mormons, the teenage leader, would not allow my horse to go beyond his lead horse...he used barrel racing techniques to get his horse to block-butt mine (we were on narrow, high, backcountry trails). He kept telling me, "don't worry, I won't let him get past me because he will throw you the moment he gets a chance." My husband asked me how I liked my solo ride with the teenagers, and I was still catching my breath....but it was the best ride, ever. Even a huge mule deer jumped over our trail, seconds before possible crash.

    butt-block (horses are very good at that), not block-butt, in my post!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  45. res says:

    Interesting take on the topic. Thanks.

    I had not known about the retiming. Here is a NYT article with some more details: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/sports/secretariat-awarded-preakness-record-39-years-later.html

    The Dirt Records image above is very small (even opened in another tab). If you have a larger version or the original source (not found in image search) please link.

    Has anyone tried looking at average horse race speeds over time? That seems like a better approach to evaluate the overall genetic pool. The oldest historical data is probably not available, but the interesting question would be how much the average has moved since Secretariat. That might help us estimate just how much of a sport (in SD terms) Secretariat was and what the chances are of a present day repeat.

    The two explanations I see for Secretariat are:
    - He was a 6 or 7 SD sport which we are unlikely to see again even given improvement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/68%E2%80%9395%E2%80%9399.7_rule
    - Something special happened in his training (etc.) not since replicated with a similarly genetically able horse.
    Or a combination of those of course.

    Any other ideas?

    On a related topic:

    Here is a GWAS for horse racing traits: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2052.2010.02095.x/abstract
    A genome-wide association study for racing performances in Thoroughbreds clarifies a candidate region near the MSTN gene

    I wonder how many race horses have been both genotyped and timed in races. If they have a large enough sample then using compressed sensing to “solve” for the additive heritability could make for potent genetic engineering opportunities. Is a DNA sample from Secretariat available?

    Nautilus is good for detailed semi-popular articles on technical topics: http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/can-science-breed-the-next-secretariat-rp

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  46. @27 year old
    There's no interpretation based on logic.

    The scare quotes just mean fuck you.

    The scare quotes just mean fuck you.

    That is true. They are also a reference to the supposedly damning appeal to alternative facts by Conway after the inaugural.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  47. syonredux says:

    Off-topic,

    An SJW fever dream:

    COLD HELL Review: The Butcher And The Kickboxer
    Stefan Ruzowitzky‘s midnight movie hybrid is a thrilling assault on the senses.

    There’s a madman stalking the streets of Vienna, skinning women alive and then forcing them to drink boiling cooking oil; a purifying ritual he’s invented to cleanse the filthy Muslim whores he’s sought out in several countries.

    Only this bastard dumps the body in front of the wrong witness – Muslim Thai boxing badass Özge Dogruol (Violetta Schurawlow) – and now he’s in a world of hurt.

    A Turkish immigrant, Özge’s already having a rough go of things even before this maniac realizes that she’s seen him leave that body in a back alley behind her flat. Her immediate family is of no help, as her cousin/best friend is only interested in using Özge as an alibi for her infidelity, and her ex kicks her out of the gym she trains in after she utterly mangles a mocking male challenger. Even the cops scoff at her when she attempts to report the crime to them, unable to take this piece of Turkish trash seriously, and even going as far as to insinuate that maybe she had something to do with the killing.

    On top of her personal struggles, Ruozwitzky makes sure to slather a thick layer of institutionalized misogyny onto the world surrounding Özge. Her mother is a prisoner to the decrepit child molester she calls a father, and the male customers she picks up in her cab every night generally treat Özge like shit. In reality, this killer is an extreme avatar for the oppressive forces that seek to keep her and all other Muslim women down.

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/09/22/cold-hell-review-the-butcher-and-the-kickboxer

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  48. @International Jew
    Wow, how did that article even make it past the reviewing process? How has Gilley himself survived so long, as the article seems not out of line with his standing reputation — http://remezcla.com/culture/bruce-gilley-colonization. Sounds like he's told more than a few SJW characters at his college to, basically, f off. And in Portland yet!

    I wish he'd been the master of that Yale College dorm, during the Haloween costume crisis a few years back.

    Sad to say, I'm old enough to remember when you could have a civil discussion about colonialism, in academe.

    And yet now he cowers.

    Things come to a head.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  49. I posted this on twitter and facebook a few months back. It is quite an awesome display of sheer domination: Secretariat winning the 1973 Belmont Stakes.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  50. @anonymouslee
    why didn't you mention horse doping? when did it start? is it getting better? or did it get better than tail off bc evading the tests became more important?

    Wasn’t there a time when Margaret Thatcher (not yet prime minister) gave a great impassioned speech in the House of Commons and one of the newspapers said “If she were a horse she would have been tested for steroids?” Steroids must have made inroads into human sports by that time, but apparently in mid-1970s Britain they were still mostly associated with horses.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  51. cthulhu says:
    @njguy73

    At the time of Secretariat's death, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy, Dr. Thomas Swerczek, head pathologist at the University of Kentucky, did not weigh Secretariat's heart, but stated, "We just stood there in stunned silence. We couldn't believe it. The heart was perfect. There were no problems with it. It was just this huge engine."...he estimated Secretariat's heart probably weighed 22 pounds (10.0 kg), or about 2.5 times that of the average horse (8.5 pounds (3.9 kg)).

    An extremely large heart is a trait that occasionally occurs in Thoroughbreds, hypothesized to be linked to a genetic condition, called the "x-factor", passed down in specific inheritance patterns...The x-factor can be traced to the historic racehorse Eclipse, who was necropsied after his death in 1789...pedigree research verified that Secretariat traces in his dam line to a daughter of Eclipse. Secretariat's success as a broodmare sire has been linked by some to this large heart theory. However, it has not been proven whether the x-factor exists, let alone increases athletic ability.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretariat_(horse)#Death

    Eclipse was descended from the Godolphin Arabian, immortalized in Marguerite Henry’s award-winning children’s book King of the Wind. A marvelous book, highly recommended for any curious child (of any age!).

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  52. There’s an inverse correlation between stamina and precociousness, the Derby is for young three-year-olds, as a result most Kentucky Derby contenders today not bred to get to classic distances. Given the centrality of the Derby to American dirt racing this has a big effect on American dirt racing as a whole.

    Monarchos’ time in 2001 was aided by a ridiculous pace and a really fast track (it rained a bit then the track was sealed).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Do horse races ever have "rabbits" the way some friends of Roger Bannister were employed to set a fast pace and then drop off the lead?

    Basically, nobody cares about records in horse racing, right?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  53. PhDPepper says:

    OT: Steve, any thoughts on the Valerie Plame brouhaha and/or the most recent David Brooks column on Sam Francis?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  54. Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  55. @Barnard

    As the tech behemoths intrude more deeply into daily life and our very minds, they will become a defining issue in American politics. It wouldn’t surprise me if a new demagogue emerged, one that is even more pure Francis.
     
    I took paragraphs like this as more of a warning to the establishment that they need to be prepared to crush the next populist after Trump.

    Francis told a conference, “The civilization that we as whites created in Europe and America could not have developed apart from the genetic endowments of the creating people, nor is there any reason to believe that the civilization can be successfully transmitted to a different people.”
     
    Brooks made sure everyone knows thinking this is still considered beyond the pale. I would love to hear the reasons we should believe our civilization can be successfully transferred to a different people complete with examples.

    Brooks made sure everyone knows thinking this is still considered beyond the pale.

    Of course. The change is that he actually quoted it instead of lobbing the usual vague calumnies.

    That’s a huge risk.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  56. @unit472
    Don't want to take anything away from the great 'Secretariat' but just maybe he had a better vet than other racehorses in 1973. Winning a race by 20 plus lengths is rather unusual.

    I saw somewhere that Secretariat had a heart that was basically twice the size of the average.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  57. M.A says:

    Certainly the importation of Northern Dancer has led to the almost total domination of European flat racing by Irish breeder(s) and trainer(s). He completely reinvigorated somewhat jaded bloodlines.

    However, “the flat”, for all the billions, can in no way compare to the excitement and thrills of National Hunt.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  58. @Stan d Mute
    So is HBD now Horse Bio-Diversity?

    I grew up around horse breeders, owners, and racers. Not Derby level by any means but nevertheless done for profit. Every one of them spent time in the penalty box with at least a couple “banned for life” for fixing races. There is SO much opportunity for shenanigans in horse racing with various doping schemes, jockeys holding back their horses, doping competitors’ horses, collusion among owners, etc. And at the top of the “sport” an important question is whether the passions of the super-rich (ie Bill Gates buying a street with every house on it in Wellington to indulge his daughter’s pony passion) has shifted focus from racing to prancing or cutting or whatever. A guy with Gates’ money or the Johnson heiress (who was recently seen kicking her horse) can have a big spillover effect on how breeders and trainers focus their energies.

    A better analysis that removes some of the human factors may be dog racing. You still have the doping issues, but nobody is riding the greyhounds and no billionaires’ kids are getting their panties in a twist over who gets the best dogs.

    Just so. Horse racing is, and always has been, as crooked as the horse’s hind leg. Looking for hard scientific HBD-relevant data in such a mob-infested, opaque business is worse than useless.

    Look, we’ve talked about the advisability of the “woke” WM to tune out sportsball…how much more so the seedy remnants of what used to be one of the biggest sports in America? If you want to bet on something, fine…but bet on something where you can accurately calculate the mathematical odds (cards and dice). Not on a dumb animal where anything can happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @prosa123
    Going to the track can be very inexpensive entertainment. Admission is often as little as five dollars, much cheaper than just about any other sporting event, and because there are usually ten races on a card you can budget out your betting without burning through your money at a dizzying pace like in a casino.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  59. Sayless says:
    @Steve Sailer
    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don't inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    A huge heart can be a disadvantage if you don’t inherit the rest of the infrastructure to support it.

    That’s true. Without a vascular system to support it, a huge heart would be a congenital defect. Secretariat was a very healthy animal. He must have had a lot more oxygen going to his cells than much of the rest of the field.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  60. Hard Bass says:

    If all thoroughbreds become equally good, the races will FINALLY be decided by the skill of the jockey’s nurture. Or maybe his weight.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  61. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The Arab theory of perfect balance in racehorses explained.
    Compares Phar Lap’s conformation to the perfectly balanced champions Bernborough and Ajax.

    http://pharlap.com.au/facts-figures/phar-lap-measures/

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  62. Clyde says:
    @Steve Sailer
    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.

    Back around 1986 I knew a guy who got kicked by a cow. Next time around he brained it with an iron bar across its forehead. Yes, stupid cow did feel and react to this iron bar and walked around dazed for a while.

    About that time I mucked out stalls into my pick up truck for a friends organic garden. No animals were around in the barn. They are stupid and dangerous as the day is long. My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    True, you might have shoveled more shit than me, but I always use a pitchfork. Shovels don't work unless you are cleaning the cement gutter behind a row of stanchioned dairy cows. Never in a horse box.
    , @Stan d Mute

    My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here
     
    Maybe, but I’ve spread more shit. Ever spread manure from an unenclosed tractor? Hay baling was worse than shit duty though. A single day of baling will convince nearly anyone to avoid manual labor for life.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  63. anonguy says:
    @slumber_j

    They’re dangerous animals.
     
    Yes, they are. I don't know all that many people who ride, but two friends of mine were killed by horses.

    They’re dangerous animals.

    Yes, they are. I don’t know all that many people who ride, but two friends of mine were killed by horses.

    More dangerous than motorcycles. And by a long shot. Think of all those nineteenth century novels, people were forever getting killed/injured riding.

    https://www.ruralweekly.com.au/news/horses-more-dangerous-than-riding-motorbikes/3121858/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cortes
    When our daughter was about 11/12 I was delegated to pick her up from the stables where she practised and saw the death of a horse put into the wrong position in a beginners amble when the horse in front kicked back at the victim and broke its windpipe.

    Scary creatures.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  64. prosa123 says: • Website
    @The Man From K Street
    Just so. Horse racing is, and always has been, as crooked as the horse's hind leg. Looking for hard scientific HBD-relevant data in such a mob-infested, opaque business is worse than useless.

    Look, we've talked about the advisability of the "woke" WM to tune out sportsball...how much more so the seedy remnants of what used to be one of the biggest sports in America? If you want to bet on something, fine...but bet on something where you can accurately calculate the mathematical odds (cards and dice). Not on a dumb animal where anything can happen.

    Going to the track can be very inexpensive entertainment. Admission is often as little as five dollars, much cheaper than just about any other sporting event, and because there are usually ten races on a card you can budget out your betting without burning through your money at a dizzying pace like in a casino.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  65. pyrrhus says:
    @unit472
    Don't want to take anything away from the great 'Secretariat' but just maybe he had a better vet than other racehorses in 1973. Winning a race by 20 plus lengths is rather unusual.

    It has long been rumored in the racing community that Secretariat received steroids when he was a yearling, which would also have something to do with his somewhat disappointing performance as a sire….As to track records, most racetracks have been made less deep and therefore faster in the last 40 years. In fact, the inbreeding of the Bold Ruler line has resulted in a shortage of horses who are sprinters and can’t run much past a mile.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  66. Cortes says:
    @anonguy


    They’re dangerous animals.
     
    Yes, they are. I don’t know all that many people who ride, but two friends of mine were killed by horses.
     
    More dangerous than motorcycles. And by a long shot. Think of all those nineteenth century novels, people were forever getting killed/injured riding.

    https://www.ruralweekly.com.au/news/horses-more-dangerous-than-riding-motorbikes/3121858/

    When our daughter was about 11/12 I was delegated to pick her up from the stables where she practised and saw the death of a horse put into the wrong position in a beginners amble when the horse in front kicked back at the victim and broke its windpipe.

    Scary creatures.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    A very popular teacher at my kids elementary school got thrown from her horse which then proceeded to step on her head killing her.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  67. @C. Van Carter
    There's an inverse correlation between stamina and precociousness, the Derby is for young three-year-olds, as a result most Kentucky Derby contenders today not bred to get to classic distances. Given the centrality of the Derby to American dirt racing this has a big effect on American dirt racing as a whole.

    Monarchos' time in 2001 was aided by a ridiculous pace and a really fast track (it rained a bit then the track was sealed).

    Do horse races ever have “rabbits” the way some friends of Roger Bannister were employed to set a fast pace and then drop off the lead?

    Basically, nobody cares about records in horse racing, right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    A rabbit is rarely used in horse racing because each horse is an individual entry. You will see an entry once in a while ( 1 and 1A ) means that a trainer has two horses entered in the same race. As you might expect, an owner might get pretty excited if he felt his trainer was using his horse to set a pace for another owner.
    No one cares about speed records. Time only counts in prison.
    , @C. Van Carter
    True rabbits are openly used in UK racing. In America and elsewhere you mostly find entries that are rabbit-ish, i.e. to ensure a pace for his closer a trainer will enter another horse that is only able to front-run.
    , @Lagertha
    Yeah, Steve, nobody cares about animals. Nobody cares about animals world-wide.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  68. dr kill says:
    @Stan d Mute
    So is HBD now Horse Bio-Diversity?

    I grew up around horse breeders, owners, and racers. Not Derby level by any means but nevertheless done for profit. Every one of them spent time in the penalty box with at least a couple “banned for life” for fixing races. There is SO much opportunity for shenanigans in horse racing with various doping schemes, jockeys holding back their horses, doping competitors’ horses, collusion among owners, etc. And at the top of the “sport” an important question is whether the passions of the super-rich (ie Bill Gates buying a street with every house on it in Wellington to indulge his daughter’s pony passion) has shifted focus from racing to prancing or cutting or whatever. A guy with Gates’ money or the Johnson heiress (who was recently seen kicking her horse) can have a big spillover effect on how breeders and trainers focus their energies.

    A better analysis that removes some of the human factors may be dog racing. You still have the doping issues, but nobody is riding the greyhounds and no billionaires’ kids are getting their panties in a twist over who gets the best dogs.

    There’s no place in the world like Wellington, even if you can only afford Loxahatchee.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    In terms of raw wealth, PB is much higher. But since billionaires usually have many homes and seemingly all have a place somewhere in S Fla it’s a kinda pointless comparison. Those with daughters who have a pony fetish wind up in Wellington and most of those own breeding and/or training farms in the bluegrass of Kentucky or in Ocala.

    With regard to Gates, I wonder if his exposure to Horse Bio-Diversity led to his epiphany about population numbers being the greatest problem in Africa. I doubt old Bill had ever given a moments thought to breeding before visiting a horse farm. That’s the level of disconnect in our elites - they’re so cloistered from our natural world that any nonsense is believable to them.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  69. dr kill says:
    @Alan Mercer
    Look at the sizes of horse and people populations competing over time.

    World people population grows rapidly. Due to the 1986 Olympics decision to allow professionals, the percentage of people trying to compete has grown too. To support this assertion compare the record times of Soviet bloc athletes (who were de facto pro) to Western athletes in the 1980 to 2000 period; the latter should show more improvement.

    How has the population of horses competing changed? Does it too grow exponentially? The numbers may in fact be hampered by selective (in)breeding.

    This opens an interesting possibility. It's conceivable that a population bred purely for a single trait is worse at producing standout individuals with that trait vs a population bred at random (to be more precise, as in the case of humans, not bred for speed only, but assortatively bred according to a host of desirable traits). Yet, if you're a horse breeder, your best chance of getting a champion horse is to get your prize filly seeded by Secretariat's line. This would be a tragedy of the commons.

    Wrong. Secretariat is widely known as a Broodmare Sire. Have a Seattle Slew colt breed your Secretariat mare if you want to have a valuable foal. This would only set you back 300k (AP Indy) at his peak. TBs need to live cover, so (wink wink) 50 years ago there were 40 mares to a stallion’s annual book. The American quest for profit eventually raised this number into the 80′s, and then they send them to the Southern Hemisphere to breed all winter as well. Since there are over 20k TB foals born every year in the States, 80 from an individual colt isn’t really the tragedy you infer.
    And also an important point about horses, any breed, people are breeding for heart, and hoping for talent. Horses are more like people than other animals. Some have talent and no heart, some will kill themselves for you but can’t outrun me. When talent and heart both show up, then you have a horse.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  70. dr kill says:
    @Clyde

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.
     
    Back around 1986 I knew a guy who got kicked by a cow. Next time around he brained it with an iron bar across its forehead. Yes, stupid cow did feel and react to this iron bar and walked around dazed for a while.

    About that time I mucked out stalls into my pick up truck for a friends organic garden. No animals were around in the barn. They are stupid and dangerous as the day is long. My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here

    True, you might have shoveled more shit than me, but I always use a pitchfork. Shovels don’t work unless you are cleaning the cement gutter behind a row of stanchioned dairy cows. Never in a horse box.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Of course I have used garden forks and pitchforks to deal with animal shit, to move it around. Shovels too. These days we get chipped wood from tree trimming/landscaping businesses to build up the soil. Trees/bushes/shrubs put through serious, industrial grade chippers......the end result is free where I live you just need to know the landscapers. And they will dump it off by your house.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  71. dr kill says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Do horse races ever have "rabbits" the way some friends of Roger Bannister were employed to set a fast pace and then drop off the lead?

    Basically, nobody cares about records in horse racing, right?

    A rabbit is rarely used in horse racing because each horse is an individual entry. You will see an entry once in a while ( 1 and 1A ) means that a trainer has two horses entered in the same race. As you might expect, an owner might get pretty excited if he felt his trainer was using his horse to set a pace for another owner.
    No one cares about speed records. Time only counts in prison.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  72. Pedantic correction: the title “sir” is attached to the first name. Sir Roger —> Dr. Sir Roger Bannister

    Like the author of one of your favorite bedtime stories, General Sir John Hackett.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  73. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    It always amazed me that although no one is dumb enough to bet on auto racing because drivers, they’ll bet on horse racing with a jockey or a sulky rider (whatever they call those guys) or a dog track with a rabbit controlled by a dopehead with a Variac.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    sulky rider (whatever they call those guys)
     
    Drivers are the standardbred equivalent of jockeys
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  74. @Steve Sailer
    Do horse races ever have "rabbits" the way some friends of Roger Bannister were employed to set a fast pace and then drop off the lead?

    Basically, nobody cares about records in horse racing, right?

    True rabbits are openly used in UK racing. In America and elsewhere you mostly find entries that are rabbit-ish, i.e. to ensure a pace for his closer a trainer will enter another horse that is only able to front-run.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  75. @dr kill
    There's no place in the world like Wellington, even if you can only afford Loxahatchee.

    In terms of raw wealth, PB is much higher. But since billionaires usually have many homes and seemingly all have a place somewhere in S Fla it’s a kinda pointless comparison. Those with daughters who have a pony fetish wind up in Wellington and most of those own breeding and/or training farms in the bluegrass of Kentucky or in Ocala.

    With regard to Gates, I wonder if his exposure to Horse Bio-Diversity led to his epiphany about population numbers being the greatest problem in Africa. I doubt old Bill had ever given a moments thought to breeding before visiting a horse farm. That’s the level of disconnect in our elites – they’re so cloistered from our natural world that any nonsense is believable to them.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  76. @Clyde

    A friend of mine got kicked by Secretariat while mucking out his stall at Arlington Park in Chicago in the summer of 1973. He was in the hospital for a week.
     
    Back around 1986 I knew a guy who got kicked by a cow. Next time around he brained it with an iron bar across its forehead. Yes, stupid cow did feel and react to this iron bar and walked around dazed for a while.

    About that time I mucked out stalls into my pick up truck for a friends organic garden. No animals were around in the barn. They are stupid and dangerous as the day is long. My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here

    My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here

    Maybe, but I’ve spread more shit. Ever spread manure from an unenclosed tractor? Hay baling was worse than shit duty though. A single day of baling will convince nearly anyone to avoid manual labor for life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    I have done hay baling but I will not lie. It was just one day. It was those rectangular bales back in the day. Ever been inside a stinking toxic poultry house, working for a day or a few hours? I have. Egg laying chickens.

    I have spread barn animal shit with a garden fork. Into a compost pile.

    , @Sayless
    A single day of baling...

    Agree, completely.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  77. Will says:

    I am informed by a professor at the U of Pennsylvania Veterinary School that the limiting factor in thoroughbred horse speed today is lung capacity. There is simply no place in a horse for lungs to take up more space.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  78. Lagertha says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Do horse races ever have "rabbits" the way some friends of Roger Bannister were employed to set a fast pace and then drop off the lead?

    Basically, nobody cares about records in horse racing, right?

    Yeah, Steve, nobody cares about animals. Nobody cares about animals world-wide.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  79. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    What’s that? They’re looking at Thoroughbred sprinting?

    There’s a very popular breed for that:

    American Quarter Horse:

    “…commonly called the Quarter Horse… an American breed of horse that excels at sprinting short distances. Its name came from its ability to outdistance other horse breeds in races of a quarter mile or less; some have been clocked at speeds up to 55 mph (88.5 km/h). The American Quarter Horse is the most popular breed in the United States today…

    …In the 17th century… began to cross imported English Thoroughbred horses with assorted “native” horses… developed from Iberian, Arabian and Barb stock brought to what is now the Southeastern United States by the Conquistadors…

    …bred to sprint short distances ranging from 220 to 870 yards… sprinting ability has earned them the nickname, “the world’s fastest athlete.”…”

    “Racing speeds of quarter horses, thoroughbreds and Arabians”, Nielsen BD, Turner KK, Ventura BA, Woodward AD, O’Connor CI, Equine Vet J Suppl. 2006 Aug;(36):128-32:

    “…RESULTS:

    Quarter Horses averaged faster speeds than Thoroughbreds even when Thoroughbreds were raced at a distance (402 m) similar to Quarter Horse races. Both breeds were substantially faster than Arabians. Quarter Horses racing 336 m or less gained speed in each segment of the race while Arabians and Thoroughbreds racing 1006 m ran fastest during the middle of the race and had decreased their speed in the final segment of the race.

    CONCLUSIONS:

    Despite similar race times reported for 402 m, Quarter Horses averaged faster speeds than Thoroughbreds when timed from a standing start. In short races, both breeds accelerate throughout the race. Arabians, despite being known for endurance, had slowed by the end of the race…”

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  80. Somewhat tangential, but someone did bring up Secretariat’s breeding history:

    The best Triple Crown sire is generally acknowledged to be Seattle Slew. Affirmed comes in fourth, Secretariat fifth. All Triple Crown winners seem to do better at siring champion brood mares, rather than sires. (They all seem to have the large heart characteristic).

    Interesting, if weird: Three TCs in the 30s,4 in the 40s, 3 in the 70s. The others came in 1919 and 2015.

    I find the Affirmed/Alydar races and story far more interesting than Secretariat’s dominance. Affirmed was a great stud. Alydar, though, was a stupendous stud, who from what I can tell was far superior to most of the Triple Crown winners in that aspect. And then Alydar was murdered.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Quite a story (long!): https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-killing-of-alydar/

    Thanks.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  81. @International Jew
    Wow, how did that article even make it past the reviewing process? How has Gilley himself survived so long, as the article seems not out of line with his standing reputation — http://remezcla.com/culture/bruce-gilley-colonization. Sounds like he's told more than a few SJW characters at his college to, basically, f off. And in Portland yet!

    I wish he'd been the master of that Yale College dorm, during the Haloween costume crisis a few years back.

    Sad to say, I'm old enough to remember when you could have a civil discussion about colonialism, in academe.

    Apparently they’re now claiming it wasn’t properly reviewed blah blah.

    It took me by surprise. I’m not used to reading mainstream material that just makes a hard-hitting anti-PC case right out of the gate [my contribution to the horse-racing topic, heh]. Unfortunately, the author would probably have been better taking a more apologetic tone. As it stands, his case is too powerfully argued for its own good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Apparently they’re now claiming it wasn’t properly reviewed blah blah.
     
    It is depressing how the research funding and paper peer review processes are being used to enforce PC. I guess the Kommissars were asleep that time. I wonder if there have been consequences for the initial reviewers.

    "I F*cking Love Science!" indeed.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  82. res says:
    @education realist
    Somewhat tangential, but someone did bring up Secretariat's breeding history:

    The best Triple Crown sire is generally acknowledged to be Seattle Slew. Affirmed comes in fourth, Secretariat fifth. All Triple Crown winners seem to do better at siring champion brood mares, rather than sires. (They all seem to have the large heart characteristic).

    Interesting, if weird: Three TCs in the 30s,4 in the 40s, 3 in the 70s. The others came in 1919 and 2015.

    I find the Affirmed/Alydar races and story far more interesting than Secretariat's dominance. Affirmed was a great stud. Alydar, though, was a stupendous stud, who from what I can tell was far superior to most of the Triple Crown winners in that aspect. And then Alydar was murdered.
    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    This was a major theme plot in the HBO series Luck.

    http://www.hbo.com/luck/episodes/index.html
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  83. Clyde says:
    @Stan d Mute

    My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here
     
    Maybe, but I’ve spread more shit. Ever spread manure from an unenclosed tractor? Hay baling was worse than shit duty though. A single day of baling will convince nearly anyone to avoid manual labor for life.

    I have done hay baling but I will not lie. It was just one day. It was those rectangular bales back in the day. Ever been inside a stinking toxic poultry house, working for a day or a few hours? I have. Egg laying chickens.

    I have spread barn animal shit with a garden fork. Into a compost pile.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    Yeah, those old rectangular bales. Not bad when completely dry, but horrible when first baled.

    Never inside a factory poultry farm. Dairy cattle and horse stalls plus the odd sheep, goat, and donkey is enough for me..

    Did you see the latest? Now the CAFO’s are too dangerous for our poor unskilled illegals:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/deaths-of-farmworkers-in-cow-manure-ponds-put-oversight-of-dairy-farms-into-question/2017/09/24/da4f1bae-8813-11e7-961d-2f373b3977ee_story.html?utm_term=.bed53f9bb0a2

    So now we’ll have what? Instead of fruit rotting on the vines, headlines about shit stinking up the barns?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  84. res says:
    @silviosilver
    Apparently they're now claiming it wasn't properly reviewed blah blah.

    It took me by surprise. I'm not used to reading mainstream material that just makes a hard-hitting anti-PC case right out of the gate [my contribution to the horse-racing topic, heh]. Unfortunately, the author would probably have been better taking a more apologetic tone. As it stands, his case is too powerfully argued for its own good.

    Apparently they’re now claiming it wasn’t properly reviewed blah blah.

    It is depressing how the research funding and paper peer review processes are being used to enforce PC. I guess the Kommissars were asleep that time. I wonder if there have been consequences for the initial reviewers.

    “I F*cking Love Science!” indeed.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  85. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @res
    Quite a story (long!): https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/the-killing-of-alydar/

    Thanks.

    This was a major theme plot in the HBO series Luck.

    http://www.hbo.com/luck/episodes/index.html

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  86. @Anonymous
    It always amazed me that although no one is dumb enough to bet on auto racing because drivers, they'll bet on horse racing with a jockey or a sulky rider (whatever they call those guys) or a dog track with a rabbit controlled by a dopehead with a Variac.

    sulky rider (whatever they call those guys)

    Drivers are the standardbred equivalent of jockeys

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  87. @Cortes
    When our daughter was about 11/12 I was delegated to pick her up from the stables where she practised and saw the death of a horse put into the wrong position in a beginners amble when the horse in front kicked back at the victim and broke its windpipe.

    Scary creatures.

    A very popular teacher at my kids elementary school got thrown from her horse which then proceeded to step on her head killing her.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  88. Sayless says:
    @Stan d Mute

    My bet is I have shoveled more animal shit than any other poster here
     
    Maybe, but I’ve spread more shit. Ever spread manure from an unenclosed tractor? Hay baling was worse than shit duty though. A single day of baling will convince nearly anyone to avoid manual labor for life.

    A single day of baling…

    Agree, completely.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  89. Racisthorses.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  90. Pat Boyle says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Horses in general are getting faster.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJSFlMCTXE8

    A few years ago when I was interested in baseball, I went to the Oakland A’s games. To my amazement the crowd always got the most excited over “Dot racing” – not the game itself. If you don’t know, Dot Racing is a pseudo horse or foot race where everyone is encouraged to root for an electronically generated Dot which races in a circle on the stadium scoreboard against other colored Dots.

    It is sort of like the chariot races of ancient Rome – you picked a color and screamed your approval. But of course the winning Dot was determined in the control room. Yet the crown at the A’s stadium didn’t seem to care. The important elements seemed to be the presence of the crowd not the characteristics of the racers. So after we have outlawed boxing and football. Maybe we will similarly outlaw horse racing. The evidence is that it won’t matter. People will still gather and root for anything that races – even electronic dots.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    In Milwaukee they have sausages race against each other.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  91. Clyde says:
    @dr kill
    True, you might have shoveled more shit than me, but I always use a pitchfork. Shovels don't work unless you are cleaning the cement gutter behind a row of stanchioned dairy cows. Never in a horse box.

    Of course I have used garden forks and pitchforks to deal with animal shit, to move it around. Shovels too. These days we get chipped wood from tree trimming/landscaping businesses to build up the soil. Trees/bushes/shrubs put through serious, industrial grade chippers……the end result is free where I live you just need to know the landscapers. And they will dump it off by your house.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  92. @Pat Boyle
    A few years ago when I was interested in baseball, I went to the Oakland A's games. To my amazement the crowd always got the most excited over "Dot racing" - not the game itself. If you don't know, Dot Racing is a pseudo horse or foot race where everyone is encouraged to root for an electronically generated Dot which races in a circle on the stadium scoreboard against other colored Dots.

    It is sort of like the chariot races of ancient Rome - you picked a color and screamed your approval. But of course the winning Dot was determined in the control room. Yet the crown at the A's stadium didn't seem to care. The important elements seemed to be the presence of the crowd not the characteristics of the racers. So after we have outlawed boxing and football. Maybe we will similarly outlaw horse racing. The evidence is that it won't matter. People will still gather and root for anything that races - even electronic dots.

    In Milwaukee they have sausages race against each other.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  93. @Clyde
    I have done hay baling but I will not lie. It was just one day. It was those rectangular bales back in the day. Ever been inside a stinking toxic poultry house, working for a day or a few hours? I have. Egg laying chickens.

    I have spread barn animal shit with a garden fork. Into a compost pile.

    Yeah, those old rectangular bales. Not bad when completely dry, but horrible when first baled.

    Never inside a factory poultry farm. Dairy cattle and horse stalls plus the odd sheep, goat, and donkey is enough for me..

    Did you see the latest? Now the CAFO’s are too dangerous for our poor unskilled illegals:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/deaths-of-farmworkers-in-cow-manure-ponds-put-oversight-of-dairy-farms-into-question/2017/09/24/da4f1bae-8813-11e7-961d-2f373b3977ee_story.html?utm_term=.bed53f9bb0a2

    So now we’ll have what? Instead of fruit rotting on the vines, headlines about shit stinking up the barns?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Nice link. This Mexican jamoke got his shit test
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  94. Clyde says:
    @Stan d Mute
    Yeah, those old rectangular bales. Not bad when completely dry, but horrible when first baled.

    Never inside a factory poultry farm. Dairy cattle and horse stalls plus the odd sheep, goat, and donkey is enough for me..

    Did you see the latest? Now the CAFO’s are too dangerous for our poor unskilled illegals:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/deaths-of-farmworkers-in-cow-manure-ponds-put-oversight-of-dairy-farms-into-question/2017/09/24/da4f1bae-8813-11e7-961d-2f373b3977ee_story.html?utm_term=.bed53f9bb0a2

    So now we’ll have what? Instead of fruit rotting on the vines, headlines about shit stinking up the barns?

    Nice link. This Mexican jamoke got his shit test

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
Current Commenter says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
A simple remedy for income stagnation