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AP: "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Is Forced to Confront Its History of Polygamy After Nine Women and Children" Murdered in Mexico
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A now deleted tweet from the Associated Press:

As Hilaire Belloc might say in 2019:

Whatever happens,
Whites have got
Bad things coming,
And Others have not.

There are a couple of things going on here.

First, this particular polygamist Mormon-offshoot sect has a lurid past.

Second, but still …

It’s like a wire service tweet reading:

Black Lives Matter is forced to confront Africans’ evolutionary history of hoe agriculture after nine women and children died in a gang shootout in Compton.

 
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  1. I love it. Attacking Trump on silly reasons and screening for all dems no matter what they do is great for hurrying the end of the media empires…

    But this sort of full bore illogical crazy helps even more

  2. nebulafox says:

    For the record, I think polygamy is an incredibly stupid, destructive idea that shouldn’t be tolerated by any non-primitive society that values basic stability.

    But for the love of God: these people are *dead*. Women and children, murdered by drug-trafficking thugs. I saw some of the people from the Jeffs cult as a kid living in rural Texas. They were normal human beings beneath all the weird Pioneer getup and silly beliefs. Treat ’em as such.

    • Replies: @vinny
    , @Anonymous
  3. I remember the days when the AP was a sought after source for news.

    it’s obvious tat after the post it was wisely reconsidered as it well should have been. Unless there was some relationship to the practice of polygamy to the incident in question — there’s no tangible reason for the Mormons or anyone else to reconsider their present, past or future practices regarding marriage.

    The subsequent references that follow while provocative to reinforce the point didn’t really make the central argument any more effective.

  4. I remember reading about Ervil LeBaron. I think the character of Hollis Greene from “Big Love” was based on him.

    Another pop culture reference that might be somewhat relevant is the Mormon-made “Napoleon Dynamite”. The character of Pedro was a transfer student from Colonia Juarez.

  5. Altai_2 says:

    I still love how they sound like the FedNet in Starship Troopers.

    I suppose the Mormon’s also pose a serious demographic threat. Not just white, not just Northern European, but mostly Scottish/English ancestry. The horror.

    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
    , @Dave2
  6. Dumbo says:

    Headlines you won’t read on AP:

    “Mexicans forced to confront their history of violent murders by drug dealers after nine women and children die in a cartel ambush in Mexico.”

    “White Americans forced to confront their history of allowing immigration of millions of poor Mexicans to the U.S. after nine women and children die in a cartel ambush in Mexico.”

  7. J.Ross says:

    Can anything force Mexicans to confront their ultra-violence and national non-functionality or is that just not as confrontable as misguided but consensual alternate family arrangements?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @Bill
  8. Maybe Allan Wall of VDare, who keeps up with the Mexican press will translate an article for us soon:

    “Mexicanos forced to confront the history of half of their ancient ancestors as worthless savages whose sick acts included grisly death and dismemberment very much like that being done by the savages in the drug cartels. Statue of Hernando Cortez to be erected … if not soon, manana. AMLO’s response: ‘Statues? We don’t need no steeenking statues!’”

  9. vinny says:
    @nebulafox

    If you, as an American citizen, wish to keep your women and children from being murdered by drug cartels, it’s a very good idea stay out of Mexico and live in the US.

    In fact, Utah is one of the safest states and extremely culturally amenable to Mormonism. Highly recommended!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Anonymous
  10. Snark all you want

    People of Color and allies agree that whiteness is evil

    They are the majority and the future.

    You guys are out of touch

    • Troll: Unladen Swallow
    • Replies: @TWS
    , @Old Prude
  11. CCZ says:

    Polygamy and Polyandry, the FUTURE of “marriage equality”!!

    “The Supreme Court’s decision in June that legalized same-sex marriage across the country has unleashed a renewed debate over polygamy, leaving some to wonder why marriage should be considered between just two persons.”

    “Nathan Collier, who was featured on the reality television show “Sister Wives,” said he will sue the state if it denies him the right to enter into a plural marriage.”

    “It’s about marriage equality,” Collier told the Associated Press. “You can’t have this without polygamy.”

    Chief Justice John G. Roberts’s dissenting opinion raised the question of whether the court’s rationale could be used to legalize plural marriage down the road.

    “Although the majority randomly inserts the adjective ‘two’ in various places, it offers no reason at all why the two-person element of the core definition of marriage may be preserved while the man-woman element may not,” Roberts wrote. “Indeed, from the standpoint of history and tradition, a leap from opposite-sex marriage to same-sex marriage is much greater than one from a two-person union to plural unions, which have deep roots in some cultures around the world.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/07/10/heres-why-people-are-arguing-over-whether-polygamy-is-the-next-gay-marriage-debate/ol

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @WowJustWow
  12. the official LDS (mormon) church always disavows the offshoot fundamentalist polygamist sects, which is disingenuous, b/c none of the polygamist sects would exist were it not for the mormons!

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Joe H
    , @Alden
  13. J.Ross says:
    @egregiousphilbin

    I don’t know that it’s disingenuous, I mean what are they supposed to do, and besides, despite the bizarrely effortful dishonesty (and hate) of that headline, there was no avoiding, there was no need to “confront:” they’re a church and they “confronted” the polygamists by expelling and delegitimizing them, which for most* churches is the most they can do.

    *Yeah yeah I know, Mormons historically went well beyond, but that’s not very fashionable or likely now is it?

  14. Joe H says:
    @egregiousphilbin

    What’s disingenuous about disavowing groups you excommunicated more than a century ago? Are Catholics disingenuous if they disavow Protestants?

  15. @Altai_2

    I suppose the Mormon’s also pose a serious demographic threat. Not just white, not just Northern European, but mostly Scottish/English ancestry. The horror.

    A lot of Danish ancestry, too. And I mean a lot. Mormon missionaries were unusually successful in Denmark long ago and many Danish converts immigrated to Utah. Image search for a map of Danish-Americans by county. Many more in Utah than anywhere else.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  16. mistaben says:

    One of my ancestors born in 1807 was a polygamist. He has 20,000+ descendants.

    Does “confronting history” mean the family organization has to host a Hunger Games-style tournament to pare down this enormous group to the size of a family as it would have been without polygamy? Or perhaps any descendant of a plural wife just need to commit seppuku?

    Please advise, AP

    • Replies: @Hail
    , @Joe Schmoe
  17. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:

    The writer “Associated Press West Region” wants to ‘spotlight’ Mormon polygamy after Drug Cartel Mexican shooters kill 9 Mormon kids.

    The AP should make editorial writers sign their editorials as individuals.

  18. Whiskey says: • Website

    It’s not, it’s never ever OK, not ever …

    To be White. This is who we are. Accept that and adjust accordingly. Know your enemies and keep you head on a swivel. Watch your six.

    • Replies: @Alden
  19. Hail says: • Website
    @mistaben

    Where did that b.1807 ancestor live? What religion?

    • Replies: @mistaben
  20. @J.Ross

    J., those people carry knives (and AKs)! Of course talking about how someone’s great-grandfather was a polygamist is much safer.

  21. Jack D says:
    @vinny

    Now that the US is cool about anything goes lifestyles, the Mormon polygamists should be able to move back to the US no problem. The hassle of living in that part of Mexico is just not worth it anymore in comparison to the legal risk of being prosecuted for polygamy, which is small nowadays.

  22. Jack D says:
    @CCZ

    Right, Roberts was using polygamy to argue that if the state could prohibit it, it could also prohibit gay marriage, but the converse is that if the state CANNOT prohibit gay marriage, it can’t prohibit polygamy either.

    • Agree: Hail
  23. rodan32 says:

    I’m a Mormon. I’ve already “confronted” my heritage and find myself well-adjusted to it. I also fail to see how the practice of polygamy, even if it wasn’t disavowed by my faith lo these 125 years ago, could justify burning babies alive.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Bill
  24. Buck says:

    Islam is forced to confront its history of polygamy after …..

    When’s the AP going to tweet that out, maybe with a cartoon of Mohammed and all his wives?

    • Replies: @TWS
  25. Wilkey says:

    My concern is with the Mormon Church “confronting” its past sin of support for the barbaric and socially destructive practice of polygamy. It convincingly and satisfactorily disavowed that practice long ago. My far greater concern is with its current, far greater sin of support for mass Third World immigration. The Church will invariably react to this massacre by doubling down on its support for letting every barbarian from every shithole move to the US.

  26. @CCZ

    Major media outlets had pieces like this lined up and ready to publish the day Obergefell was decided: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/gay-marriage-decision-polygamy-119469

    It was amazing at the time to see so many progressives drop their masks within milliseconds of victory and say “jk lol there really is a slippery slope, and it’s steep, and this sled has enough momentum to bust through every Chesterton’s fence on its path”.

  27. Alden says:
    @Whiskey

    You should be happy Whiskey. 3 White women and several White girls were killed. Isn’t it your dearest wish that White women be eradicated from the earth?

  28. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Is Forced to Confront Its History of Polygamy After Nine Women and Children” Murdered in Mexico

    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Is Forced to Confront Its History of [Women’s Suffrage] After Nine Women and Children” Murdered in Mexico

    FIFTh.

    Utah’s, not Wyoming’s, women were the first to vote:

    GAINING, LOSING, AND WINNING BACK THE VOTE: THE STORY OF UTAH WOMEN’S SUFFRAGE

    (New Jersey’s don’t count, because wives couldn’t vote, only maidens, spinsters, and widows.)

    Utah and the 19th AmendmentUtah and the 19th Amendment

    Woman Suffrage in the West

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  29. Been checking out Twitter tonight re this but couldn’t go on after about 3 minutes.

    Two major reactions. From whites: “they’re weird religious fanatics and deserved it!”

    From Mexicans: “Yeah it’s too bad but you gringos should STFU about it. You know nothing about our country. Where were you when the cartels killed 35 people in the Great Dos Equis Massacre.”

    Fred Reed’s right, they do hate us. But their hatred is grounded in jealousy. They’re jealous of the LeBarons because they have nice houses and a successful, self-sustaining community. And I’m sure that 9-hole desert golf course built by the nearby Romney clan eats away at their national pride too.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  30. @Ray Huffman

    Mark Skousen is Danish on his father’s side, and descends from Benjamin Franklin on his mother’s. Clayton Christensen of Harvard Business School is another Mormon of Danish descent.

    (Christensen is also 6’8″, an inch taller than Paul Volcker, but shy of John Kenneth Galbraith.)

    Of Utah’s greatest contributors to popular music, Leigh Harline was a Swedish Mormon, Otto Harbach a Danish Gentile.

    Nebraska and Iowa are home to the largest concentrations of Lutheran Danes. But not only wouldn’t they marry Swedish, Norwegian, or German Lutherans, the “holy Danes” and the “happy Danes” wouldn’t even intermarry. (For the difference, compare Kirkegaard and Grundtvig.)

    Mormons of different strains were intermarrying from the start, weren’t they?

    • Replies: @Hail
  31. @Reg Cæsar

    ‘Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Is Forced to Confront Its History of [Women’s Suffrage] After Nine Women and Children” Murdered in Mexico

    FIFTh.

    Utah’s, not Wyoming’s, women were the first to vote:’

    Well, neither one is really relevant.

    You don’t get to slaughter people on account of their practices and views, much less their infant children.

    The AP headline is still sillier if one considers that it’s not especially likely the killers attacked because they were outraged by past polygamy.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @Ragno
  32. Hail says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    Lutheran Danes (which is to say, regular Danes) were among the local founders of parts of Iowa, in the sense of establishing communities that hadn’t existed before, in the 19th century Q3 and Q4.

    Some of my ancestors in the late 19th century were Danes who fit that description.

    Nebraska and Iowa are home to the largest concentrations of Lutheran Danes. But not only wouldn’t they marry Swedish, Norwegian, or German Lutherans

    As for religious-identity feeling:

    The impressions I’ve picked up from older relatives were that the Scandinavians and Germans were mildly mutually suspicious of each other, but were united in their mutual suspicion of Catholics, the few of them that there were in the part of rural Iowa I refer to. Maybe more in theory than in practice.

    No one seemed aware of Mormons, except as some distant and mysterious people, with an unusual religion, way over somewhere else. I don’t think there was much kinship feeling between Upper Midwest Lutherans of heavily Scandinavian ancestry and Mormons of partial-Scandinavian ancestry.

    Iowa wasn’t a bad place to be, once the Red Man kindly cleared out, and the people who settled there did pretty well for a while.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Jack D
  33. Dave2 says:
    @Altai_2

    Mormons wanted competent professors of non-religious subjects at BYU, and the people they hired infected the next generation of Mormon intellectuals with liberal ideas. Now the Mormon leadership is gradually empowering women and accepting homosexuality, and it’s already causing a decline in their fertility rate.

    The Amish have no mass media or formal hierarchy, which makes them pretty much immune to infiltration. If one Amish community hoists the rainbow flag, it will die out and be repopulated by another community that didn’t embrace the gay.

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @Mike1
  34. @Hail

    No one seemed aware of Mormons, except as some distant and mysterious people, with an unusual religion, way over somewhere else.

    Iowa got the breakaway “moderate” Mormons. Few were “ethnic” in 1860.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graceland_University

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Christ

  35. El Dato says:

    Same as when you have to confront your colonialist/racist past whenever some joyful massacre goes down in Africa as claims ring out that 49 million people need to be given asylum while you really are a sararyman in a urban battery cage.

    Meanwhile, Nazi Turtles!

    RT: ‘Nazi turtles’ with painted-on swastikas evade capture in Washington state park

    While the Swastikas are not affected by dyslexic malformations, it could actually be Indian turtles:

    A regional director for the Anti-Defamation League, Miri Cypers, also weighed in on the incident, calling it “troubling and unfortunate,” but pointed out the artist may not have been the quickest turtle in the pack, painting the hate symbol backwards.

  36. @Colin Wright

    You don’t get to slaughter people on account of their practices…

    Is that so? Seems to be the most common justification, historically speaking.

  37. G. Poulin says:
    @El Dato

    The backwards swastika makes them Ninja, not Nazi, turtles. Every teenager knows that.

  38. @El Dato

    Haha! We don’t have a lot of turtles in my neighborhood, but the whole thing pisses me off that I never thought of this idea – turtles as working media in a moving marketing campaign! Once could paint Trump ’20 or just Bob’s Wrecker Service. Better yet, Evinrude outboards, to appeal to the probably demographic of those viewing the turtles.

    BTW, the fact that these Swa-stickers are backwards as seen from the outside makes one wonder: Are these turtles more sentient than we’ve been assuming? Perhaps they’ve been writing them from the INSIDE, when we believed they’d just been sleeping in their shells, and it bled through.

  39. Beliavsky says:

    I don’t want polygamy to become more common, but it’s not as obviously stupid as homosexuality and transgenderism.

  40. Bill says:
    @Dave2

    To be fair, they have a difficult balancing act to pull off. The US has repeatedly attacked them, and there is no reason to believe that the US won’t attack them again in future if it suits its purposes. So, they have to comply enough to stave that off. In addition to that practical balancing act, there is an ideological one. They are pretty self-consciously super-Americans. How do you pull that off if you are visibly and completely opposed to American culture? So, again, they have to go along enough that the whole thing doesn’t become sufficiently absurd that even Mormons notice it.

  41. They have since deleted the tweet and replaced it with this one

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints expressed sympathy for the victims of an attack in Mexico while saying they didn't belong to the church. It shows the conundrum the faith faces when news happens with groups that have broken from the church. https://t.co/llJuOIEdex— AP West Region (@APWestRegion) November 8, 2019

  42. Bill says:
    @rodan32

    That reminds me, has ATF confronted its history of burning babies alive yet?

  43. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox

    Polygamy of a kind widely practiced in southern Europe, France historically and increasingly among the poor and affluent in the west. Mistress culture. Serial “marriage.”

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  44. Ragno says:
    @Colin Wright

    The AP headline is still sillier if one considers that it’s not especially likely the killers attacked because they were outraged by past polygamy.

    So if that headline pointed out the need for blacks to confront their savagery, or Mexicans their corruption, or Jews their love of usury – in the wake of a massacre of defenseless women and babies -is that how said headline would be characterized?…..as “silly”?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  45. TWS says:
    @Tony Dukes

    You misspelled, ‘cooler’. You can’t out-duck the duck.

  46. TWS says:
    @Buck

    I would pay cash money to see that.

  47. Jack D says:
    @Hail

    The Mormons recruited a lot of converts from northern Europe to go to Utah, but I think they quickly lost their ethnic identity in favor of a Mormon identity since the church was an all encompassing entity that controlled every aspect of your life and there was no real room in it for ethnic identity. In general, the Germans and Danes, etc. in America all eventually ended up as sort of generic white bread Americans but with Mormons this happened even faster.

    The craziest (well maybe not THE craziest, but one of them) idea that the Mormons had was that they would get their European recruits to WALK to Utah pulling all their possessions and provisions across the unpaved wilderness in poorly built rickshaw-like handcarts, because they didn’t have the $ to pay for Conestoga wagons. I suppose the Mormon missionaries had their best luck recruiting from the “you have nothing to lose but your chains” impoverished masses, nor did the church, at that point, have the resources to fund a luxury class wagon train for them. In 1856 the railroad ended at Iowa City and from there they had to walk 1,200 miles to SLS, dragging their poorly built and heavily laden carts behind them. They would try to time this for summer but some of the expeditions ended up leaving late in August, which put them in the mountains of Wyoming in October, just in time for heavy snow, with predictably disastrous results:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_handcart_pioneers#1856:_Willie_and_Martin_handcart_companies

    • Replies: @Mike1
    , @Alden
  48. Jack D says:
    @El Dato

    But residents, activists and anti-hate organizations say the incident is troubling, no matter the reason. A “Rally Against Hate” is planned for Saturday afternoon at the park in response.

    Better have that rally quick before the true story comes out. They are already anticipating that Nazism is not the reason, but it is “troubling” anyway.

    “It appears the animals are feeling fine, but at the same time we don’t know much the paint might be compromising their health,” she said.

    Ya, that’s it. That’s the ticket. We had better catch those turtles for the sake of their health.

    I am just waiting for the Indian family whose pet good luck turtles escaped to come forward.

  49. Mike1 says:
    @Dave2

    Mormons empowering women! That is hilarious. You can’t get into heaven unless your husband agrees…

  50. Jack D says:
    @Bragadocious

    I am not sure that the Mexicans are really wrong. It’s understandable that the American right doesn’t care about what Mexicans do to each other but the Left is supposed to care about such things. But just as with ghetto violence, they really don’t – their only idea seems to be to try to take away guns. All the cartel violence was off their radar until it affected Americans but since they were the bad kind of Americans the reaction was to blame them. But at least they HAD a reaction. Mexican on Mexican violence is something the American left would like to pretend just doesn’t exist because they’d rather talk about Latinx cardiologists (who usually turn out to be painfully European anyway).

    • Replies: @nebulafox
  51. Mike1 says:
    @Jack D

    This really is amazing history. What is astonishing is that they are currently proud of it: stories are told of people throwing away blankets and coats to lighten the load heading into winter as if they made smart choices.

  52. Let me help here:

    “Black Lives Matter is forced to confront Africans’ evolutionary history of hoe culture after nine women and children died in a gang shootout in Compton.”

    There. It’s all fixed now.

  53. Mike1 says:

    One baffling part of this is how no one has focused on the trafficking angle. Mean spirited headlines aside, I know a lot of Mormons who have lives explainable only by trafficking. They own businesses they don’t like to talk about (which if you know a business owner is like finding a Harvard grad who keeps it a secret) and they take frequent car only vacations to Mexico or family compounds in Queen Creek or Cave Creek AZ.
    Mormons are the perfect traffickers: not too bright, boring “yes sir” personality, trained liars, average cars and the trips are explainable by family connection.
    It is possible the ambush was exactly what it looks like: control of a smuggling route. The fact that one of the women was gunned down after exiting the vehicle and after putting her hands in the air make the “mistake” story implausible (as well as the fact the family are saying on facebook that the attack was intentional).
    The other explanation is that the men of the group intentionally sent a large group of unarmed women and children through a cartel war zone so that they could go to the mall in AZ.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  54. ATBOTL says:

    Imagine if the children killed were Jewish? How would the NYT react?

  55. Old Prude says:
    @Tony Dukes

    Not LOL, but definitely BS (Bemused Smile) at “Tony Dukes”.

  56. nymom says:

    Yes, it’s ridiculous as this has nothing to do with the murder of these innocent people, six of them children…

    President Trump should give Mexico another week to see if they come up with the culprits and if they don’t, he might have to send either drones or troops into the town where this happened to arrest the offending parties and bring them back for trial.

    I would rather he send drones; but, if he does that, they will just be killed on the spot as opposed to dragged back for trial. But I don’t want us to lose American lives due to this event.

    So let’s see if just this once Mexico comes through…

    Somehow I doubt it.

    • Replies: @Alden
  57. @Ragno

    ‘So if that headline pointed out the need for blacks to confront their savagery, or Mexicans their corruption, or Jews their love of usury – in the wake of a massacre of defenseless women and babies -is that how said headline would be characterized?…..as “silly” ?’

    It would if the headline connected some tragedy befalling the victim with an irrelevant failing.

    ‘Blacks need to confront their savagery’ wouldn’t be silly. ‘Bear mauling in park shows Blacks need to confront their savagery’ would be silly.

    Whatever the sinfulness of polygamy, and whatever Mormon adults did in the past, doesn’t somehow justify burning Mormon babies alive in the present. Surely that’s obvious.

  58. mistaben says:
    @Hail

    He was a very early member, prominent leader, and well-known exponent of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His ancestors came to New England mostly in the 1600s, and he began life near there as well. But being also quite a pioneer and missionary, he lived all over what is now the US and spent time on two other continents.

    I’ve confronted the history of (pre-Second Manifesto) polygamy in my family, and it mostly looks like a huge loving extended family of white people.

    Obviously this cannot be allowed to stand.

  59. Jack D says:
    @Mike1

    This all sounds good but have any Mormon drug smugglers ever been caught? You would think that with all the Mormon drug smugglers you are positing at least a few of them would have been caught but I don’t recall hearing any such stories.

    Some of the details are also wrong in your version – at least one of the women was headed to the border to move to ND where her husband was working, not just to go shopping. If the cars were full of valuable drugs, why did the Mexican drug dealers set them on fire?

    • Replies: @Mike1
  60. nebulafox says:
    @Jack D

    It always struck me as somewhat curious that there’s a complete lack of interest in Mexico’s history and politics. Events there are likely to practically impact the daily lives of more Americans than what goes on in Moscow or Beijing.

  61. nebulafox says:
    @Anonymous

    And you don’t see a connection between that and the negative features of those societies?

    People bring up China as an example of a stable polygamous society for much of its history, but when you consider the atmosphere and causes of the downfall of many of their imperial dynasties, you have to wonder how true that is. I find it hard to see the Nian Rebellion getting so much traction if many young men didn’t have absolutely no stake in society, for example.

    Mao did a great number of terrible things, but getting rid of polygamy was not one of them.

  62. notsaying says:

    I am very against polygamy, wherever it occurs. I would like to know more about this group of people in Mexico although I would say I can certainly wait until the bodies are buried and people have a chance to mourn.

    But I do hate polygamy. It exploits everybody involved except the older men with all the money, power and wives. Frankly I even feel sorry for them; I sure wouldn’t want the pressure of a huge family with maybe more than a dozen kids and multiple wives on me, that would kill me.

    I think one real spouse is enough — if not too much — for any one person to handle. Two or three kids sounds about right to me too, not 12 or 16.

    I hope the AP waits awhile and then goes back down and finds out what’s really going on — if they are still there. I’d advise them all to sell out and move back to America as soon as possible. It will be interested to see if any of them do that. It’s also possible that some of these kids need to be rescued from their families because they’re being groomed for child marriage or because they’re a boy who will be forced to leave home during the high school years. If so, I’d like to know that, too, so that maybe the US can be of help to exploited young people.

    I am still curious about their legal connection to the US — how long can they stay down there and have their children be considered American citizens. It seems like they’ve been down there for decades, way more time than seems reasonable to me for passing American citizenship down.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Alden
  63. Mike1 says:
    @Jack D

    I said they were perfect smugglers not incompetent smugglers who routinely get caught. The Order in SLC is a Mormon polygamist crime family that has attracted media attention if you would like to do some research. Tight knit groups with a contempt for wider society tend to engage in illegal activity.

    There are also plenty of Mormon smuggling stories if you care to spend 30 seconds or so online (and that is with the incredibly obvious caveat that someones religion is not a crime stat).

    Why would Mexican cartels set fire to rivals vehicles?! Dios mia…

  64. @notsaying

    ‘…I’d advise them all to sell out and move back to America as soon as possible. It will be interested to see if any of them do that. It’s also possible that some of these kids need to be rescued from their families because they’re being groomed for child marriage or because they’re a boy who will be forced to leave home during the high school years. If so, I’d like to know that, too, so that maybe the US can be of help to exploited young people…’

    Given your plans for them, perhaps they would be well-advised not to move back to ‘America’ as soon as possible. They may not feel the need for your proposed investigations and interventions.

  65. Alden says:
    @nymom

    Last I heard one man was arrested on suspicion. He possessed 4 long guns and some ammunition.

    It had to be intentional. All 3 drivers were obviously women with shoulder length light brown blondish hair. The big question is why?

    2 thoughts; some local Mexicans want to drive the Mormons out and take over their nice homes and prosperous farms. This is exactly what the black migrants did when they moved to and destroyed our great cities. Or the Mormons are involved in something non Mormon like.

    My husband’s ancestor came to California with the Mormons. He was the brother of a pair of brother sister teen orphans in Boston. There was no future for them in Boston other than being a maid in another woman’s house and for him casual day labor in competition with the Irish immigrants.

    They wanted to go west. But it cost money to buy and stock a wagon for the long trek. So they pretended to convert to Mormonism. That meant the LSD church subsided their trip.

    When they got to Utah, they snuck away in the middle of the night with a string of stolen horses and made it to California just in time for the Gold Rush. No one seems to know what became of the sister.

    But the boy went to the Grass Valley Gold Rush. Then to the Nevada silver mines. He was a blaster. Drill a hole in the rock in the right place stick in a dynamite stick, light it and run.

    He survived, came down from Nevada, started building San Francisco and we’ve been doing so ever since. Downtown and the financial district, that’s our work.

  66. Alden says:
    @notsaying

    If 1 or 2 American citizens have a child abroad the child is an American citizen. It’s extremely helpful for the gazillion children born abroad to US military parents since we first sailed into Manila and Havana back in 1890 something

  67. Alden says:
    @Jack D

    I’m skeptical about that story and most Wikipedia stories. It’s a great legend but is it the truth? I have no way of knowing except for my husband’s ancestor who traveled in a nice big wagon and left with a whole string of stolen horses.

    It’s a standard martyrdom and hard trek to the promised land story.

  68. @mistaben

    My non-polygamist forbear born 1596 has way more than 20k descendants including Presidents Bush and myself. If someone was born long ago and had several children, it is not that hard for him to have a bazillion descendants.

    • Replies: @mistaben
  69. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @vinny

    If you are a member of a polygamist or otherwise “heretical” offshoot of LDSism, Utah is the last place on planet you want to be. Even being in the “Community of Christ” might be problematic, but the FLDS and suchlike would have real problems there.

    There are, it looks like, two CofC (former RLDS) churches in Utah, one in SLC and one in Ogden, which is interesting, but since CofC is now mostly just another mainline prot denomination with a sidecar of “Restored Gospel” they probably don’t get much heat.

    But polygamy would generate really serious heat there.

  70. Alden says:
    @egregiousphilbin

    None of the tens of thousands of Christian sects would exist if not for those Jews, Zoroastrians and Mithraits who developed Christianity 2,000 years ago.

    I read the Rolling Stone article about the polygamist non tax paying perhaps criminal sect in Utah, Colorado Idaho etc. They’re a small group and not officially Mormons at all.

  71. mistaben says:
    @Joe Schmoe

    It is amazing what an extra 200 years will do in a geometric progression.

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