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Denmark is a famously “normal” (i.e., above average) country: Francis Fukuyama’s 2011 opus The Origins of Political Order posited that the goal of political philosophy should be to help the average country in “getting to Denmark.”

That’s particularly striking because Denmark is a country where immigration restrictionism, often denounced in the United States as being clearly the obvious enemy of normality and sophistication, has had some success at both the ballot box and in the the legislature in getting a law through to cut down on forced arranged marriages (often between cousins) for purposes of immigration fraud. A coalition supported by the restrictionist Danish People’s Party won elections in 2001, 2005, and 2007. That strikes me as what sophisticated normal politics would look like in the 21st Century, but to the U.S. media, that just is weird.

The economic downturn led to a left coalition forming a minority government after the 2011 election. But this week’s election saw the DPP’s percentage of the vote grow from 12.3% to 21.1%.

From the New York Times:

Anti-Immigrant Party Gains in Denmark Elections
By MELISSA EDDY JUNE 18, 2015

In an election that turned on economic uncertainty and fierce debates over immigration, Danish voters on Thursday ousted their center-left government in a clear swing to the right that unexpectedly elevated an anti-immigrant, anti-European Union party that had been on the margins of the country’s politics.

Polls had predicted a close race, but as the night wore on, the far-right Danish People’s Party emerged in second place over all, raising questions about the role it could play in a new government and the country’s path in the coming four years.

The outcome took even senior members of the Danish People’s Party by surprise. “It’s gone beyond my wildest expectations,” Peter Skaarup, a senior lawmaker with the party told The Local, a Danish news outlet. “I know we often fare better in these elections than the polls suggest since people often aren’t willing to admit that they vote for the Danish People’s Party, but it really does look fantastic so far.”

Based on preliminary results published by national broadcaster DR.DK, the center-right bloc that includes the Danish People’s Party secured a majority of 90 seats in Parliament. That would allow it to form the next government, with the leader of the conservative Liberal Party, Lars Lokke Rasmussen, expected to become prime minister. …

Although the Danish People’s Party won more votes than the Liberals, none of Denmark’s many smaller parties was willing to form a government with it, according to Kasper M. Hansen, a professor of political science at the University of Copenhagen. The election, called by Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt just three weeks ago, came at a time when Danes increasingly feared that their cherished system of generous welfare benefits was being abused by migrants from southern Europe and a recent surge of more than 14,000 asylum seekers, mostly Muslims.

The country remains shaken by a Feb. 14 shooting rampage in Copenhagen by the 22-year-old son of Palestinian immigrants at a free-speech event and outside a synagogue that left two people dead and five police officers wounded. …

Both of the leading parties had pledged a tougher stance on immigration, with the prime minister campaigning on a vow to require refugees to work — an unusual position for her party.

Denmark has consistently ranked among the world’s happiest nations, but the flow of immigrants ignited a backlash that has heightened nationalist sentiments, something that also unfolded with political upheaval in neighboring Finland — where the populist Finns Party joined the government — and to some extent in other European countries.

“Immigration has been a very key and decisive issue in this campaign,” Mr. Hansen said. Debate focused largely on the number of workers coming from places like Bulgaria and Romania, what sort of benefits they should receive, and whether Denmark should take in more of the migrants arriving at Europe’s southern borders, he added.

Those sound like normal issues for the normal voters of a normal country to democratically debate, but in the U.S. such discussion is considered scandalous.

 
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  1. A Danish colleague once remarked to me that the liberal college town in which I was living (a town with many bike paths that is 90% white and 5% Asian) reminded him of Copenhagen.

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  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Of course, Denmark is blessed by having a system of proportional representation which allows new and radical parties to capture the public imagination – and to capture seats.
    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of ‘self’ and a long, rich and glorious history. Instinctively, the Danish people realise that theirselves, their culture, their heritage and their history were slated for elimantion by politicians wishing to prove how ‘clever’ they are for the benefit of ‘The Economist’ magazine.
    Terroristic attacks and attempted terroristic attacks by immigrants haven’t helped, neither has the enormously high criminality and welfare usage of third world immigrant groups. All rigorous analysis proves that the third world immigrants are a massive fiscal drain on Denmark, thus defeating any rational justification for third world immigration.
    And also Danes can cast the eyes across the Skaggerak to see the real ongoing pantomimic madness of the slow motion train-wreck of permissive immigration occurring in Sweden, which, incidentally, was Danish land in years gone by.

    On another note, last century, before the minority mortgage f*ck up, the mainstream led by the WSJ and The Economist tried very, very hard to immigrationism the ‘progressive’ policy of default, in the same way they did for ‘globalisation’ . Only this time a real, popular mass, grass roots movement in virtually all of western Europe rose up as a backlash against their tyranny.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    @Anonymous who likes proportional representation.
    "Blessed" with it!! Well maybe the Danes could make most imperfect systems work tolerably but have a look around the world and add in your knowledge of human nature and you won't expect a country to be blessed by it. Even in Australia's Senate where increase in the numbers (and reduction in quotas) has made it very unlikely that a reforming government, even after a bad one, can win a majority. And in Israel recently I learned of the additional disastrous feature (which should hsve been obvious) when you have a party list system. There is no such thing as a local member so no one geographically close who cares tuppence what you the local voter think about anything.
    , @gruff

    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of ‘self’ and a long, rich and glorious history.
     
    A history that does not include large scale colonization of non-European countries. (Though look up Danish India for some forgotten history!) Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.
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  3. Since I am Danish…

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I’d say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future — they haven’t improved much in the past — I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

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    • Replies: @AnonymousCoward
    What did you vote? Are you politically active?
    , @The Z Blog

    Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I’d say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.
     
    This is a point I'm fond of making about American politics. The linear scale we use in America only makes sense if you understand that at the center is a dominant ideological cult. Then it is about measuring ideological distance from that core. That way, Reason Magazine and Evangelical Christians can share a place on "the Right." Both are far away from the ideological core.

    This formulation, of course, serves the interests of the ideological core which is why America Progressives demand we use this to describe our politics. It's not a conscious strategy; it is the natural impulse of the true believer.
    , @Big Bill

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing
     
    This is true in other areas as well. For example, anti-abortion laws, such as "no abortions after 3 months of gestation" are called "rightwing", "patriarchal" or "anti-feminist" in the USA, yet are common throughout enlightened socialist Europe.

    It is fun to twit lefties/feminists with the incongruities: "We need to bring our barbarian bloodthirsty American laws in to accord with the more enlightened life-honoring laws of socialist Europe. We need to ban capital punishment! ... and abortions after 4 months gestation ... and anonymous insemination."

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    It's been said many times before but I'll say it again: "You van have a welfare state; you can have an open-borders immigration policy; but you can't combine both in a survivable system.

    Nearly a half-century ago, in one of the first examples of using a non-linear, dynamic model to simulate a large-scale, real-world system, Jay Forrester's group at MIT demonstrated that any city in the US that adopted liberal welfare policies would very quickly be over-whelmed by a dysfunctional underclass composed of new immigrants and their off-spring. The prophecy was not well-received at the time but has proven pretty accurate since then.

    (BTW, and way OT, even though the Forrester group's efforts were pioneering, their models were much more carefully constructed, tested and verified, i.e., much better built and used, than the current crop of IPCC climate models that have been designed to predict anthropogenic global warming.)
    , @foxy
    are there any pro_life parties in Denmark.
    , @Rob McX
    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don't see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It's the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour. Of course they're also behind the free trade deals that see European and American jobs shipped by the million to countries with lower production costs.
    , @Anonymous
    The association between economic liberalism and right-wing politics is a modern phenomenom thought, from the 1980s and the Reagan and Thatcher revolutions. No one would call Charles de Gaulle or Konrad Adenauer "leftists" because they were economically interventionists and distrusted the free-market.

    By the way, I see that the far left "Red-Green Alliance" made huge gains too, so things are not so "normal" in Denmark, instead we are seeing a radicalization of society. And when society radicalizes, the far-left tends to win so I guess the restrictionist victories will end up being pyrrhic after all.
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  4. If they go into government, the results will be interesting. Their functional equivalent party in Norway has been whipped in the polls since 2013, and is still suffering from the legacy of being associated with the terrorist Brevik.

    It’s also worth noting that DF abandoned an alliance with Nigel Farage’s UKIP, and switched to David Cameron’s pseudo-Conservatives.

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  5. I suspect that the success of the Danish People’s Party in this election will lead Marine Le Pen to hope for similar results in France, by toning down the level of anti-immigrant rhetoric and moving to the left economically. She’ll probably be watching how the DPP fares in coalition-forming and how they influence its coalition partners.

    Unlike the DPP, however, the National Front is the scene of an unseemingly family feud between father, daughter, and granddaughter/niece that complicates decisions about the direction that the party should take.

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    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    The good thing about the French political system is that it's quite flexible and nimble. The FN under Marine Le Pen might suffer from this current family feud but other leaders and coalitions might move to the front to take their place. Two men spring to mind:

    1) Bruno Gollnisch ran for the leadership of the FN and lost to Marine. He just recently decided to sit as an independent in the European Parliament alongside J-M Le Pen rather than stay as an FN member of parliament under Marine. He's got a relatively strong public reputation.

    2) Robert Ménard is even better known in French politics. He got voted in as the mayor in a small city in southern France with the support of the FN vote but said recently, in an interview with a Moroccan paper, "I can sometimes be more reactionary than the Front National". People can run this the article through the translator of their choice if interested:
    http://lobservateurdumaroc.info/2015/06/19/robert-menard-je-peux-parfois-etre-plus-reactionnaire-que-le-front-national/

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  6. .12% of the pop must be a conducive figure for normalcy. There’s a stultifying debate going on elsewhere around here that has something to do with IQ and this phantom-ish thing called a white american, apparently several debaters insist this ravenous phantom even has its own race. I think the problem goes something like, when you think you have a race but you don’t have a culture, somebody winds up shooting up a house of God. Hence, culture is IMPORTANT. Yeah, prob should think about whose culture you suckle on before you start talking about a pasty-faced race.

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  7. This country will lurch back to normal. I fervently pray it’s soon enough where it can be done peacefully.

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  8. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    What did you vote? Are you politically active?

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    • Replies: @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    I didn't bother voting. I am not interested in party or identity politics.
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  9. @Anonymous
    Of course, Denmark is blessed by having a system of proportional representation which allows new and radical parties to capture the public imagination - and to capture seats.
    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of 'self' and a long, rich and glorious history. Instinctively, the Danish people realise that theirselves, their culture, their heritage and their history were slated for elimantion by politicians wishing to prove how 'clever' they are for the benefit of 'The Economist' magazine.
    Terroristic attacks and attempted terroristic attacks by immigrants haven't helped, neither has the enormously high criminality and welfare usage of third world immigrant groups. All rigorous analysis proves that the third world immigrants are a massive fiscal drain on Denmark, thus defeating any rational justification for third world immigration.
    And also Danes can cast the eyes across the Skaggerak to see the real ongoing pantomimic madness of the slow motion train-wreck of permissive immigration occurring in Sweden, which, incidentally, was Danish land in years gone by.

    On another note, last century, before the minority mortgage f*ck up, the mainstream led by the WSJ and The Economist tried very, very hard to immigrationism the 'progressive' policy of default, in the same way they did for 'globalisation' . Only this time a real, popular mass, grass roots movement in virtually all of western Europe rose up as a backlash against their tyranny.

    who likes proportional representation.
    “Blessed” with it!! Well maybe the Danes could make most imperfect systems work tolerably but have a look around the world and add in your knowledge of human nature and you won’t expect a country to be blessed by it. Even in Australia’s Senate where increase in the numbers (and reduction in quotas) has made it very unlikely that a reforming government, even after a bad one, can win a majority. And in Israel recently I learned of the additional disastrous feature (which should hsve been obvious) when you have a party list system. There is no such thing as a local member so no one geographically close who cares tuppence what you the local voter think about anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @whahae
    You can have both proportional representation and local candidates representing districts. Look at the German system.
    , @Anonymous
    Look, I can assure you that in the UK, if the vast bulk of the electors in a parliamentary constituency strongly and vociferously denounce a particular local development, for example the proposed HS2 railway, then their 'local' MP who supposedly is their voice in parliament, can do absolutely damn all to stop the government steam-rolling ahead with the proposal.
    So what is the point of 'local' MPs?
    Perhaps the idea meant something in the era of Simon de Montfort, but in today's Britain, where voters vote for nationally based parties on nationally based manifestoes, the whole concept is nothing more than a sham. A sham the Tories will uphold forever because it keeps them in.
    , @Busby
    Never have understood why the voters tolerate proportional rep and party lists. And we, a nation where this practice has bever been practiced, imposed it on the Iraqis, because why?
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  10. @Wizard of Oz
    @Anonymous who likes proportional representation.
    "Blessed" with it!! Well maybe the Danes could make most imperfect systems work tolerably but have a look around the world and add in your knowledge of human nature and you won't expect a country to be blessed by it. Even in Australia's Senate where increase in the numbers (and reduction in quotas) has made it very unlikely that a reforming government, even after a bad one, can win a majority. And in Israel recently I learned of the additional disastrous feature (which should hsve been obvious) when you have a party list system. There is no such thing as a local member so no one geographically close who cares tuppence what you the local voter think about anything.

    You can have both proportional representation and local candidates representing districts. Look at the German system.

    Read More
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  11. the goal of political philosophy should be to help the average country in “getting to Denmark.”

    But I think he meant it figuratively, not literally.

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  12. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I’d say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    This is a point I’m fond of making about American politics. The linear scale we use in America only makes sense if you understand that at the center is a dominant ideological cult. Then it is about measuring ideological distance from that core. That way, Reason Magazine and Evangelical Christians can share a place on “the Right.” Both are far away from the ideological core.

    This formulation, of course, serves the interests of the ideological core which is why America Progressives demand we use this to describe our politics. It’s not a conscious strategy; it is the natural impulse of the true believer.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing

    This is true in other areas as well. For example, anti-abortion laws, such as “no abortions after 3 months of gestation” are called “rightwing”, “patriarchal” or “anti-feminist” in the USA, yet are common throughout enlightened socialist Europe.

    It is fun to twit lefties/feminists with the incongruities: “We need to bring our barbarian bloodthirsty American laws in to accord with the more enlightened life-honoring laws of socialist Europe. We need to ban capital punishment! … and abortions after 4 months gestation … and anonymous insemination.”

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    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    An exception to those "enlightened life-honoring laws" is Belgium's assisted suicide law.
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  14. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    It’s been said many times before but I’ll say it again: “You van have a welfare state; you can have an open-borders immigration policy; but you can’t combine both in a survivable system.

    Nearly a half-century ago, in one of the first examples of using a non-linear, dynamic model to simulate a large-scale, real-world system, Jay Forrester’s group at MIT demonstrated that any city in the US that adopted liberal welfare policies would very quickly be over-whelmed by a dysfunctional underclass composed of new immigrants and their off-spring. The prophecy was not well-received at the time but has proven pretty accurate since then.

    (BTW, and way OT, even though the Forrester group’s efforts were pioneering, their models were much more carefully constructed, tested and verified, i.e., much better built and used, than the current crop of IPCC climate models that have been designed to predict anthropogenic global warming.)

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    • Replies: @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Well, there are two parties that want to do something about the costly immigration problem. DF wants to close the borders and keep the coffers open, the 'libertarian' party (LA) wants to keep the borders open but close the coffers. One or the other must happen, as you say. Right now borders and coffers are open, so it is very expensive.

    I say 'libertarian' because while they are the most free-market friendly party in Denmark, their vision of taxation is something like an income tax of 40%, which would not be seen as libertarian in other places. But compared to Denmark, with an effective income tax of 60% or something, they are pretty free-market oriented.
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  15. “…the flow of immigrants ignited a backlash that has heightened nationalist sentiments…” There are a few missing links in the middle of this causal chain that NYT staff are conditioned to ignore or overlook; or perhaps the conditioning process has progressed to the point where these staff lack even the capacity to conceptualize such links.

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  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    @Anonymous who likes proportional representation.
    "Blessed" with it!! Well maybe the Danes could make most imperfect systems work tolerably but have a look around the world and add in your knowledge of human nature and you won't expect a country to be blessed by it. Even in Australia's Senate where increase in the numbers (and reduction in quotas) has made it very unlikely that a reforming government, even after a bad one, can win a majority. And in Israel recently I learned of the additional disastrous feature (which should hsve been obvious) when you have a party list system. There is no such thing as a local member so no one geographically close who cares tuppence what you the local voter think about anything.

    Look, I can assure you that in the UK, if the vast bulk of the electors in a parliamentary constituency strongly and vociferously denounce a particular local development, for example the proposed HS2 railway, then their ‘local’ MP who supposedly is their voice in parliament, can do absolutely damn all to stop the government steam-rolling ahead with the proposal.
    So what is the point of ‘local’ MPs?
    Perhaps the idea meant something in the era of Simon de Montfort, but in today’s Britain, where voters vote for nationally based parties on nationally based manifestoes, the whole concept is nothing more than a sham. A sham the Tories will uphold forever because it keeps them in.

    Read More
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  17. So a bunch of scared old white people voted? Guess what? They will did off

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  18. Steve, have you seen the Danish political drama Borgen? They have a “far right” anti-immigrant character who is portrayed as an absolute loony and describes himself as a hillbilly. All the other characters get to look virtuous by making fun of him and denouncing his backward views, sometimes to his face. Haven’t seen every episode, but they seem to have very similar ideas about what is considered sophisticated and what is scandalous.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Norman Lear rides again...
    , @Hal

    ...describes himself as a hillbilly.
     
    Obviously deranged. Dunebilly, dikebilly, embankment billy, perhaps.

    Was this a test?
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  19. WhatEvvs [AKA "Prada Yada Yada"] says:

    Well, we’ll see how long this attack of common sense lasts. I suppose it may also have something to do with the anti-Jewish terror attack of a few months ago. By world standards it wasn’t much, but I think it was very shocking to the Danes.

    I thought that the Danes once owned Norway, not Sweden.

    *****

    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Friendly old girl of a town
    ‘Neath her tavern light
    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Friendly old girl of a town
    ‘Neath her tavern light
    On this merry night
    Let us clink and drink one down
    To wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Salty old queen of the sea
    Once I sailed away
    But I’m home today
    Singing Copenhagen, wonderful, wonderful
    Copenhagen for me
    I sailed up the Skagerrak
    And sailed down the Kattegat
    Through the harbor and up to the quay
    And there she stands waiting for me
    With a welcome so warm and so gay
    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Friendly old girl of a town
    ‘Neath her tavern light
    On this merry night
    Let us clink and drink one down
    To wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Salty old queen of the sea
    Once I sailed away
    But I’m home today
    Singing Copenhagen, wonderful, wonderful
    Copenhagen for me

    Read More
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Skane (Scania) in Sweden was part of Denmark. They still build their houses in the Danish style and have a very distinct accent. It is a stronghold of the Swedish Democrats.
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  20. Danish voters on Thursday ousted their center-left government in a clear swing to the right that unexpectedly elevated an anti-immigrant, anti-European Union party that had been on the margins of the country’s politics.

    Notice how the left gets to assign descriptive labels to every party starting with the most important adjective, pro or anti, and coupling it to the noun of their choice. Like the seigniorage the USG receives from being able to print the world’s default currency, the left has a certain political seigniorage in being the lexicographers of political discourse.

    Anti-immigrant might be an accurate description for this party, but wouldn’t pro-Dane be just as accurate and convey a more positive connotation in the eyes of the average voter? If the press had touted them as Pro-Danes, would their electoral success have been even higher?

    Likewise, couldn’t ‘t anti-European Union be replaced with a more accurate description such as pro-Dane? If the press had touted them as Pro-Danes, would their electoral success have been even higher?

    And while I’m discussing giving groups on my side more favorable names, what about giving more realistic names, in my eyes, to the groups of the left? For example, pro-immigrant might sound nice to the average voter. But how would the average voter react to anti-Dane or Anti-American, etc? Even if you let the leftist group keep the ‘pro’ adjective in their name, how about relabeling pro-immigrant as pro-replacement, which in reality is what they are promoting? How would pro-replacement fly in Denmark or Peoria?

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The use of "anti-American" in regards to immigration is of limited to null effect, due to the dominance of the "proposition nation" and JFK's A Nation of Immigrants.

    In Europe, I imagine it works much better.

    Pro-replacement works well, in France they say Le Grande Remplacement

    ---

    Peoria isn't the test market of yore. It's congressional district is R+11

    The test markets of now are the Columbus Ohio and Twin Cities suburbs, the Chicago and Philly collar counties, Ventura County, Jefferson County CO.

    Upstate NY would be a test market, but it's poor. The GOP must close the gap in Albany/Ithaca if it wants relevancy again.
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  21. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    are there any pro_life parties in Denmark.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democrats_(Denmark)

    0.8 % of the vote
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  22. @iSteveFan

    Danish voters on Thursday ousted their center-left government in a clear swing to the right that unexpectedly elevated an anti-immigrant, anti-European Union party that had been on the margins of the country’s politics.
     
    Notice how the left gets to assign descriptive labels to every party starting with the most important adjective, pro or anti, and coupling it to the noun of their choice. Like the seigniorage the USG receives from being able to print the world's default currency, the left has a certain political seigniorage in being the lexicographers of political discourse.

    Anti-immigrant might be an accurate description for this party, but wouldn't pro-Dane be just as accurate and convey a more positive connotation in the eyes of the average voter? If the press had touted them as Pro-Danes, would their electoral success have been even higher?

    Likewise, couldn't 't anti-European Union be replaced with a more accurate description such as pro-Dane? If the press had touted them as Pro-Danes, would their electoral success have been even higher?

    And while I'm discussing giving groups on my side more favorable names, what about giving more realistic names, in my eyes, to the groups of the left? For example, pro-immigrant might sound nice to the average voter. But how would the average voter react to anti-Dane or Anti-American, etc? Even if you let the leftist group keep the 'pro' adjective in their name, how about relabeling pro-immigrant as pro-replacement, which in reality is what they are promoting? How would pro-replacement fly in Denmark or Peoria?

    The use of “anti-American” in regards to immigration is of limited to null effect, due to the dominance of the “proposition nation” and JFK’s A Nation of Immigrants.

    In Europe, I imagine it works much better.

    Pro-replacement works well, in France they say Le Grande Remplacement

    Peoria isn’t the test market of yore. It’s congressional district is R+11

    The test markets of now are the Columbus Ohio and Twin Cities suburbs, the Chicago and Philly collar counties, Ventura County, Jefferson County CO.

    Upstate NY would be a test market, but it’s poor. The GOP must close the gap in Albany/Ithaca if it wants relevancy again.

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  23. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour. Of course they’re also behind the free trade deals that see European and American jobs shipped by the million to countries with lower production costs.

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    • Replies: @ben tillman

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour.
     
    Capitalism and plutocracy are and always have been creatures of the Left. Read Tawney and Belloc.
    , @ben tillman

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour.
     
    By definition, a right-wing party cannot support immigration of this sort.
    , @Lackawanna
    Back in the 1980's, the European "far right" was full of people advocating hardcore liberal economics or something close. What happened though is that nationalist political parties could not get any support form the folks who benefitted from those policies. The got their best votes in working class precincts. Party members heard from many people in these communities that they would support them if they would adopt pro-worker economic policies. Doing that lead to a large scale defection of workers from the communist/socialist parties to nationalists parties.

    I suspect something similar will happen here when whites are finally forced by events to organize politically along racial lines. The conservative/liberal polarization among whites will break down. You may have corporate types and even many evangelical fundamentalists not part of the white coalition, but many union workers, environmentalists and atheists will be.
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  24. @Anonymous
    Of course, Denmark is blessed by having a system of proportional representation which allows new and radical parties to capture the public imagination - and to capture seats.
    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of 'self' and a long, rich and glorious history. Instinctively, the Danish people realise that theirselves, their culture, their heritage and their history were slated for elimantion by politicians wishing to prove how 'clever' they are for the benefit of 'The Economist' magazine.
    Terroristic attacks and attempted terroristic attacks by immigrants haven't helped, neither has the enormously high criminality and welfare usage of third world immigrant groups. All rigorous analysis proves that the third world immigrants are a massive fiscal drain on Denmark, thus defeating any rational justification for third world immigration.
    And also Danes can cast the eyes across the Skaggerak to see the real ongoing pantomimic madness of the slow motion train-wreck of permissive immigration occurring in Sweden, which, incidentally, was Danish land in years gone by.

    On another note, last century, before the minority mortgage f*ck up, the mainstream led by the WSJ and The Economist tried very, very hard to immigrationism the 'progressive' policy of default, in the same way they did for 'globalisation' . Only this time a real, popular mass, grass roots movement in virtually all of western Europe rose up as a backlash against their tyranny.

    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of ‘self’ and a long, rich and glorious history.

    A history that does not include large scale colonization of non-European countries. (Though look up Danish India for some forgotten history!) Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

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    • Replies: @Andrew
    Gruff:

    Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

    You forget that Austria has tens of millions of former subject people just over its eastern, southern, and northern borders in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and even its former excalve of Belgium.
    , @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    You seem to forget Greenland and Faroe Islands, which are still colonized by Denmark. Iceland was also until 1944, when they broke away while we were occupied by the Germans.

    Greenland is basically economically dependent on Denmark and supplies many homeless, alcoholics for the streets. However, Greenlanders cannot be seen in official statistics because they count as Danish natives. I have not been able to find any reliable information about them.
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  25. Denmark is blessed with having (but for its recent non-white invaders) ethnically homogeneous Scandinavian demographics. Contra Fukuyama, it is impossible for the rest of the world to “get into Denmark” unless everybody else in the world magically turned into Danes and every place in the world magically started having the climate of far northern Europe.

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Botswana is the Denmark of Africa
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  26. Re: but to the U.S. media, that just is weird

    Of course they’d think that, due to the deep-seated antipathy to the undeniable, objective, manifestly beneficial impact of a society (constructs and all) that is Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic.

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  27. I know it’s old fashioned and pedantic of me, but when a journalist calls Finland a neighbor of Denmark, I just kind of dismiss the entire work as sloppy and very likely untrue in other areas.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I know it’s old fashioned and pedantic of me, but when a journalist calls Finland a neighbor of Denmark, I just kind of dismiss the entire work as sloppy and very likely untrue in other areas.

     

    It's only 400 miles from Bornholm to the Finnish coast. Sounds neighborly to me.

    No, not as close as Germany (land border), Sweden (2.5 mi) or Canada (8 mi).
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  28. @countenance
    Denmark is blessed with having (but for its recent non-white invaders) ethnically homogeneous Scandinavian demographics. Contra Fukuyama, it is impossible for the rest of the world to "get into Denmark" unless everybody else in the world magically turned into Danes and every place in the world magically started having the climate of far northern Europe.

    Botswana is the Denmark of Africa

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    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    Botswana is the Denmark of Africa
     
    Then why don't African migrants go there?
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  29. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    Since I am Danish...

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People's Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing. Politics is not easily reducible to one dimension. I'd say at least two would be necessary for a useful description, but preferably at least three: economic liberality, social liberality, nationalism/ethnocentrism.

    Socially, they are fairly conservative, even Christian. This is not normal for Danish politics, but the huge problems with immigrants seem to increase nationalist sentiments. If only because they are the only party willing to do something about the problems.

    Since the immigrants are not likely to do better in the future -- they haven't improved much in the past -- I imagine that DF will increase their power in the next election to come too.

    By the way, the Swedish equivalent, Sverigedemokraterna (SD; Swedish Democrats), is polling around similar levels. Refer to this website: http://status.st/

    The association between economic liberalism and right-wing politics is a modern phenomenom thought, from the 1980s and the Reagan and Thatcher revolutions. No one would call Charles de Gaulle or Konrad Adenauer “leftists” because they were economically interventionists and distrusted the free-market.

    By the way, I see that the far left “Red-Green Alliance” made huge gains too, so things are not so “normal” in Denmark, instead we are seeing a radicalization of society. And when society radicalizes, the far-left tends to win so I guess the restrictionist victories will end up being pyrrhic after all.

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  30. @FX Enderby
    Steve, have you seen the Danish political drama Borgen? They have a "far right" anti-immigrant character who is portrayed as an absolute loony and describes himself as a hillbilly. All the other characters get to look virtuous by making fun of him and denouncing his backward views, sometimes to his face. Haven't seen every episode, but they seem to have very similar ideas about what is considered sophisticated and what is scandalous.

    Norman Lear rides again…

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  31. @foxy
    are there any pro_life parties in Denmark.
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  32. Borgenchick scotched it… I guess the Hillary camp will have to track down some other non-lesbian non-superannuated distaff “world leaders” for the onslaught of vote-priming Conde Nast pieces about Women In Power

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  33. Those sound like normal issues for the normal voters of a normal country to democratically debate, but in the U.S. such discussion is considered scandalous.

    As Charlton Heston would say:

    “Well, we probably have more mixed ethnicity here.”

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  34. @gruff

    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of ‘self’ and a long, rich and glorious history.
     
    A history that does not include large scale colonization of non-European countries. (Though look up Danish India for some forgotten history!) Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

    Gruff:

    Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

    You forget that Austria has tens of millions of former subject people just over its eastern, southern, and northern borders in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and even its former excalve of Belgium.

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    • Replies: @Anon 2
    History punished Austria, the land that gave birth to Hitler, by reducing it to one quarter of its former size. If in 1914 Austria had a right to its nationalistic glory, why not Czechoslovakia?
    It did. World War I is when the empires crumbled, and nations became liberated. Europe is a much more humane place as a result
    , @gruff

    You forget that Austria has tens of millions of former subject people just over its eastern, southern, and northern borders in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and even its former excalve of Belgium.
     
    I did not forget that. I specified "non-European" in order to exclude them. Notice how they are not swamping Austria? That was my point.
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  35. @Big Bill

    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing
     
    This is true in other areas as well. For example, anti-abortion laws, such as "no abortions after 3 months of gestation" are called "rightwing", "patriarchal" or "anti-feminist" in the USA, yet are common throughout enlightened socialist Europe.

    It is fun to twit lefties/feminists with the incongruities: "We need to bring our barbarian bloodthirsty American laws in to accord with the more enlightened life-honoring laws of socialist Europe. We need to ban capital punishment! ... and abortions after 4 months gestation ... and anonymous insemination."

    An exception to those “enlightened life-honoring laws” is Belgium’s assisted suicide law.

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  36. @FX Enderby
    Steve, have you seen the Danish political drama Borgen? They have a "far right" anti-immigrant character who is portrayed as an absolute loony and describes himself as a hillbilly. All the other characters get to look virtuous by making fun of him and denouncing his backward views, sometimes to his face. Haven't seen every episode, but they seem to have very similar ideas about what is considered sophisticated and what is scandalous.

    …describes himself as a hillbilly.

    Obviously deranged. Dunebilly, dikebilly, embankment billy, perhaps.

    Was this a test?

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    • Replies: @Enderby
    I think I see what you mean. "Hillbilly" is probably a mistranslation in the subtitles. The point is that Borgen portrays the anti-immigration politician as a proudly ignorant backward redneck that couldn't possibly be taken seriously by sophisticated right thinking intellectual types. Mass 3rd world immigration is just so obviously necessary to anyone with an education and a subscription to The Economist.
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  37. @Andrew
    Gruff:

    Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

    You forget that Austria has tens of millions of former subject people just over its eastern, southern, and northern borders in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and even its former excalve of Belgium.

    History punished Austria, the land that gave birth to Hitler, by reducing it to one quarter of its former size. If in 1914 Austria had a right to its nationalistic glory, why not Czechoslovakia?
    It did. World War I is when the empires crumbled, and nations became liberated. Europe is a much more humane place as a result

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  38. @Diversity Heretic
    I suspect that the success of the Danish People's Party in this election will lead Marine Le Pen to hope for similar results in France, by toning down the level of anti-immigrant rhetoric and moving to the left economically. She'll probably be watching how the DPP fares in coalition-forming and how they influence its coalition partners.

    Unlike the DPP, however, the National Front is the scene of an unseemingly family feud between father, daughter, and granddaughter/niece that complicates decisions about the direction that the party should take.

    The good thing about the French political system is that it’s quite flexible and nimble. The FN under Marine Le Pen might suffer from this current family feud but other leaders and coalitions might move to the front to take their place. Two men spring to mind:

    1) Bruno Gollnisch ran for the leadership of the FN and lost to Marine. He just recently decided to sit as an independent in the European Parliament alongside J-M Le Pen rather than stay as an FN member of parliament under Marine. He’s got a relatively strong public reputation.

    2) Robert Ménard is even better known in French politics. He got voted in as the mayor in a small city in southern France with the support of the FN vote but said recently, in an interview with a Moroccan paper, “I can sometimes be more reactionary than the Front National”. People can run this the article through the translator of their choice if interested:

    http://lobservateurdumaroc.info/2015/06/19/robert-menard-je-peux-parfois-etre-plus-reactionnaire-que-le-front-national/

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Thanks for the insight. I was aware of Robert Ménard, but Bruno Gollnisch is a new name for me. The FN movement, under the FN Party banner or otherwise, needs eventually to transcend the Le Pen family (and that's not a criticism of the Le Pen family, but rather an observation about what must be done to build a long-term viable political movement).
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  39. I feel i should point out that here in Europe, economic interventionism and a welfare state aren’t considered ‘left wing’. Plenty of nationalist parties are committed to the idea of a welfare state as a form of ethnic or national solidarity. The UK is an exception in this regard. The FN the Sweden democrats, and others are among the most ‘leftist’ parties in Europe, economically.

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    • Replies: @snorlax
    More like incoherent. E.g. Marine Le Pen praising Ron Paul for his advocacy of the gold standard.
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  40. Denmark has always been the most aggressively expansionist nation in Scandinavia. It finally released Sweden in 1523 but held on to Norway until 1814. It’s still holding on to Greenland which is 50 times the size of Denmark, and is actually located in North America. Nothing brings the country as much joy and confidence as having a large territory. Perhaps that’s why Danes are so happy. But perhaps they should heed the warning encapsulated in one of the Kohr principles (named after the Austrian economist Leopold Kohr): size is the root of all evil.

    On a darker note, it’s been said concerning the Danish behavior during WW II that the Germans invaded in the morning, and in the afternoon the Danes went back to their cafés. They instantly surrendered with perfunctory resistance at best. Not that I blame them, 5 million against 70 million – not much you can do

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  41. WhatEvvs [AKA "Prada Yada Yada"] says:

    You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

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  42. @Wizard of Oz
    @Anonymous who likes proportional representation.
    "Blessed" with it!! Well maybe the Danes could make most imperfect systems work tolerably but have a look around the world and add in your knowledge of human nature and you won't expect a country to be blessed by it. Even in Australia's Senate where increase in the numbers (and reduction in quotas) has made it very unlikely that a reforming government, even after a bad one, can win a majority. And in Israel recently I learned of the additional disastrous feature (which should hsve been obvious) when you have a party list system. There is no such thing as a local member so no one geographically close who cares tuppence what you the local voter think about anything.

    Never have understood why the voters tolerate proportional rep and party lists. And we, a nation where this practice has bever been practiced, imposed it on the Iraqis, because why?

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    • Replies: @AlexT
    What's wrong with proporttional representation? It's a far more accurate gauge of voter sentiment than any other system.
    , @fnn
    People seem to like the wide variety of choices you generally get with a highly proportional voting system. Has any country ever switched from PR to Anglo-American first-past-the-post? France moved from PR to a unique (not a runoff) two round system when the National Front won "too many" seats in parliament.
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  43. STEVE, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, BUT….

    Steve, you said:

    Those sound like normal issues for the normal voters of a normal country to democratically debate, but in the U.S. such discussion is considered scandalous.

    But you left off there. Why? Who is controlling the debate? Who is telling people that a just and moral thing like banning immigration is scandalous? Who is the elephant in the room?

    On another note, this is good news. I think as more and more Western countries turn to the right and restrict immigration and the public understands that banning immigration is not only normal, but, in fact, a moral and just imperative, the tide might turn.

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  44. @Busby
    Never have understood why the voters tolerate proportional rep and party lists. And we, a nation where this practice has bever been practiced, imposed it on the Iraqis, because why?

    What’s wrong with proporttional representation? It’s a far more accurate gauge of voter sentiment than any other system.

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  45. @Maj. Kong
    Botswana is the Denmark of Africa

    Botswana is the Denmark of Africa

    Then why don’t African migrants go there?

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/botswanas-changing-migration-patterns/

    http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?aid=50214

    Apparently, they do. And cultural Marxism makes an appearance with a non-white group.
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  46. @Busby
    Never have understood why the voters tolerate proportional rep and party lists. And we, a nation where this practice has bever been practiced, imposed it on the Iraqis, because why?

    People seem to like the wide variety of choices you generally get with a highly proportional voting system. Has any country ever switched from PR to Anglo-American first-past-the-post? France moved from PR to a unique (not a runoff) two round system when the National Front won “too many” seats in parliament.

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  47. @iSteveFan

    Botswana is the Denmark of Africa
     
    Then why don't African migrants go there?

    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/botswanas-changing-migration-patterns/

    http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?aid=50214

    Apparently, they do. And cultural Marxism makes an appearance with a non-white group.

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  48. @Hal

    ...describes himself as a hillbilly.
     
    Obviously deranged. Dunebilly, dikebilly, embankment billy, perhaps.

    Was this a test?

    I think I see what you mean. “Hillbilly” is probably a mistranslation in the subtitles. The point is that Borgen portrays the anti-immigration politician as a proudly ignorant backward redneck that couldn’t possibly be taken seriously by sophisticated right thinking intellectual types. Mass 3rd world immigration is just so obviously necessary to anyone with an education and a subscription to The Economist.

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  49. The city had 700K+ people. Now post industry NAFTA and they are under 400K. Crime is way up. Everybody is voting themselves new housing, raises and healthcare bennies. Welfare state growing and attracting new families with 8 kids. Middle class thick in the bellies. We got fat poor people!

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The city had 700K+ people.
     
    What city? What are you talking about? Who are you talking to?
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  50. @PSR
    I know it's old fashioned and pedantic of me, but when a journalist calls Finland a neighbor of Denmark, I just kind of dismiss the entire work as sloppy and very likely untrue in other areas.

    I know it’s old fashioned and pedantic of me, but when a journalist calls Finland a neighbor of Denmark, I just kind of dismiss the entire work as sloppy and very likely untrue in other areas.

    It’s only 400 miles from Bornholm to the Finnish coast. Sounds neighborly to me.

    No, not as close as Germany (land border), Sweden (2.5 mi) or Canada (8 mi).

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    • Replies: @International Jew

    No, not as close as Germany (land border), Sweden (2.5 mi) or Canada (8 mi).
     
    Nice observation about Canada! (But where? Some high arctic island near Greenland? Isn't Greenland independent yet??)
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  51. @rustbeltreader
    The city had 700K+ people. Now post industry NAFTA and they are under 400K. Crime is way up. Everybody is voting themselves new housing, raises and healthcare bennies. Welfare state growing and attracting new families with 8 kids. Middle class thick in the bellies. We got fat poor people!

    The city had 700K+ people.

    What city? What are you talking about? Who are you talking to?

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  52. @AlexT
    I feel i should point out that here in Europe, economic interventionism and a welfare state aren't considered 'left wing'. Plenty of nationalist parties are committed to the idea of a welfare state as a form of ethnic or national solidarity. The UK is an exception in this regard. The FN the Sweden democrats, and others are among the most 'leftist' parties in Europe, economically.

    More like incoherent. E.g. Marine Le Pen praising Ron Paul for his advocacy of the gold standard.

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    • Replies: @AlexT
    Probably an off-hand comment. It's not a policy they've ever espoused as a party as far as i'm aware. My broader point, that right-wing parties advocating welfare states are common in Europe, still stands.
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  53. @snorlax
    More like incoherent. E.g. Marine Le Pen praising Ron Paul for his advocacy of the gold standard.

    Probably an off-hand comment. It’s not a policy they’ve ever espoused as a party as far as i’m aware. My broader point, that right-wing parties advocating welfare states are common in Europe, still stands.

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  54. @Rob McX
    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don't see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It's the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour. Of course they're also behind the free trade deals that see European and American jobs shipped by the million to countries with lower production costs.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour.

    Capitalism and plutocracy are and always have been creatures of the Left. Read Tawney and Belloc.

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  55. @Rob McX
    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don't see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It's the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour. Of course they're also behind the free trade deals that see European and American jobs shipped by the million to countries with lower production costs.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour.

    By definition, a right-wing party cannot support immigration of this sort.

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    • Replies: @Rob McX
    I agree. Our difference is merely one of taxonomy. I think the whole political spectrum needs to be remapped and fitted with a terminology that supersedes the right/left one. For instance, the capitalist "right" is an ally of the SJW "left", but the latter seems mostly unaware of that fact.
    , @Anonymous
    Margaret Thatcher was deeply and instinctively sceptical of third world immigration into Britain.
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  56. @ben tillman

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour.
     
    By definition, a right-wing party cannot support immigration of this sort.

    I agree. Our difference is merely one of taxonomy. I think the whole political spectrum needs to be remapped and fitted with a terminology that supersedes the right/left one. For instance, the capitalist “right” is an ally of the SJW “left”, but the latter seems mostly unaware of that fact.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "For instance, the capitalist “right” is an ally of the SJW “left”, but the latter seems mostly unaware of that fact."

    Shhhhh ...
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  57. @WhatEvvs
    Well, we'll see how long this attack of common sense lasts. I suppose it may also have something to do with the anti-Jewish terror attack of a few months ago. By world standards it wasn't much, but I think it was very shocking to the Danes.

    I thought that the Danes once owned Norway, not Sweden.

    *****

    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Friendly old girl of a town
    'Neath her tavern light
    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Friendly old girl of a town
    'Neath her tavern light
    On this merry night
    Let us clink and drink one down
    To wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Salty old queen of the sea
    Once I sailed away
    But I'm home today
    Singing Copenhagen, wonderful, wonderful
    Copenhagen for me
    I sailed up the Skagerrak
    And sailed down the Kattegat
    Through the harbor and up to the quay
    And there she stands waiting for me
    With a welcome so warm and so gay
    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Friendly old girl of a town
    'Neath her tavern light
    On this merry night
    Let us clink and drink one down
    To wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
    Salty old queen of the sea
    Once I sailed away
    But I'm home today
    Singing Copenhagen, wonderful, wonderful
    Copenhagen for me

    Skane (Scania) in Sweden was part of Denmark. They still build their houses in the Danish style and have a very distinct accent. It is a stronghold of the Swedish Democrats.

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    • Replies: @AlexT
    Halland, Blekinge, and Bohuslan as well. Also a large swathe of northern Sweden. King Charles X changed all that by marching over the frozen water to take Copenhagen. His son, Charles XI, brutally put down a Danish uprising in Scania. It was so brutal that putting his face on the 500kr bill led to some protests in Scania, apparently.
    , @Anonym
    The Swedish Democrats are the anti-immigrant party? Maybe there is something more nationalistic in the Danish DNA.

    Part-Dane here.
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  58. @LondonBob
    Skane (Scania) in Sweden was part of Denmark. They still build their houses in the Danish style and have a very distinct accent. It is a stronghold of the Swedish Democrats.

    Halland, Blekinge, and Bohuslan as well. Also a large swathe of northern Sweden. King Charles X changed all that by marching over the frozen water to take Copenhagen. His son, Charles XI, brutally put down a Danish uprising in Scania. It was so brutal that putting his face on the 500kr bill led to some protests in Scania, apparently.

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  59. @Cagey Beast
    The good thing about the French political system is that it's quite flexible and nimble. The FN under Marine Le Pen might suffer from this current family feud but other leaders and coalitions might move to the front to take their place. Two men spring to mind:

    1) Bruno Gollnisch ran for the leadership of the FN and lost to Marine. He just recently decided to sit as an independent in the European Parliament alongside J-M Le Pen rather than stay as an FN member of parliament under Marine. He's got a relatively strong public reputation.

    2) Robert Ménard is even better known in French politics. He got voted in as the mayor in a small city in southern France with the support of the FN vote but said recently, in an interview with a Moroccan paper, "I can sometimes be more reactionary than the Front National". People can run this the article through the translator of their choice if interested:
    http://lobservateurdumaroc.info/2015/06/19/robert-menard-je-peux-parfois-etre-plus-reactionnaire-que-le-front-national/

    Thanks for the insight. I was aware of Robert Ménard, but Bruno Gollnisch is a new name for me. The FN movement, under the FN Party banner or otherwise, needs eventually to transcend the Le Pen family (and that’s not a criticism of the Le Pen family, but rather an observation about what must be done to build a long-term viable political movement).

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    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The Bush family is now into the fourth generation of elected officials, it's still a viable political movement in its own right despite the debacle of the GWB administration.

    What says that the third generation of Le Pen (Marion) could not do better than the second (Marine) generation and first (Jean-Marie)?

    That's how it was for the Bushes.
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  60. @AnonymousCoward
    What did you vote? Are you politically active?

    I didn’t bother voting. I am not interested in party or identity politics.

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  61. @Jus' Sayin'...
    It's been said many times before but I'll say it again: "You van have a welfare state; you can have an open-borders immigration policy; but you can't combine both in a survivable system.

    Nearly a half-century ago, in one of the first examples of using a non-linear, dynamic model to simulate a large-scale, real-world system, Jay Forrester's group at MIT demonstrated that any city in the US that adopted liberal welfare policies would very quickly be over-whelmed by a dysfunctional underclass composed of new immigrants and their off-spring. The prophecy was not well-received at the time but has proven pretty accurate since then.

    (BTW, and way OT, even though the Forrester group's efforts were pioneering, their models were much more carefully constructed, tested and verified, i.e., much better built and used, than the current crop of IPCC climate models that have been designed to predict anthropogenic global warming.)

    Well, there are two parties that want to do something about the costly immigration problem. DF wants to close the borders and keep the coffers open, the ‘libertarian’ party (LA) wants to keep the borders open but close the coffers. One or the other must happen, as you say. Right now borders and coffers are open, so it is very expensive.

    I say ‘libertarian’ because while they are the most free-market friendly party in Denmark, their vision of taxation is something like an income tax of 40%, which would not be seen as libertarian in other places. But compared to Denmark, with an effective income tax of 60% or something, they are pretty free-market oriented.

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  62. @gruff

    Other points to consider is that Denmark is a small, homogenous nation, with a very strong sense of ‘self’ and a long, rich and glorious history.
     
    A history that does not include large scale colonization of non-European countries. (Though look up Danish India for some forgotten history!) Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

    You seem to forget Greenland and Faroe Islands, which are still colonized by Denmark. Iceland was also until 1944, when they broke away while we were occupied by the Germans.

    Greenland is basically economically dependent on Denmark and supplies many homeless, alcoholics for the streets. However, Greenlanders cannot be seen in official statistics because they count as Danish natives. I have not been able to find any reliable information about them.

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    • Replies: @gruff

    You seem to forget Greenland and Faroe Islands, which are still colonized by Denmark. Iceland was also until 1944, when they broke away while we were occupied by the Germans.

    Greenland is basically economically dependent on Denmark and supplies many homeless, alcoholics for the streets. However, Greenlanders cannot be seen in official statistics because they count as Danish natives. I have not been able to find any reliable information about them
     
    I did not forget that. I specified “large numbers of former subject peoples” in order to exclude them. Notice how they are not swamping Denmark? That was my point.
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  63. @ben tillman

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don’t see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It’s the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour.
     
    By definition, a right-wing party cannot support immigration of this sort.

    Margaret Thatcher was deeply and instinctively sceptical of third world immigration into Britain.

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  64. I think the whole political spectrum needs to be remapped and fitted with a terminology that supersedes the right/left one.

    Populist (as in “for the population”) versus anti-populist?

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  65. @LondonBob
    Skane (Scania) in Sweden was part of Denmark. They still build their houses in the Danish style and have a very distinct accent. It is a stronghold of the Swedish Democrats.

    The Swedish Democrats are the anti-immigrant party? Maybe there is something more nationalistic in the Danish DNA.

    Part-Dane here.

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  66. @Andrew
    Gruff:

    Thus a lack of large numbers of former subject peoples. Austria is in a similar position.

    You forget that Austria has tens of millions of former subject people just over its eastern, southern, and northern borders in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and even its former excalve of Belgium.

    You forget that Austria has tens of millions of former subject people just over its eastern, southern, and northern borders in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine and even its former excalve of Belgium.

    I did not forget that. I specified “non-European” in order to exclude them. Notice how they are not swamping Austria? That was my point.

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  67. @Emil O. W. Kirkegaard
    You seem to forget Greenland and Faroe Islands, which are still colonized by Denmark. Iceland was also until 1944, when they broke away while we were occupied by the Germans.

    Greenland is basically economically dependent on Denmark and supplies many homeless, alcoholics for the streets. However, Greenlanders cannot be seen in official statistics because they count as Danish natives. I have not been able to find any reliable information about them.

    You seem to forget Greenland and Faroe Islands, which are still colonized by Denmark. Iceland was also until 1944, when they broke away while we were occupied by the Germans.

    Greenland is basically economically dependent on Denmark and supplies many homeless, alcoholics for the streets. However, Greenlanders cannot be seen in official statistics because they count as Danish natives. I have not been able to find any reliable information about them

    I did not forget that. I specified “large numbers of former subject peoples” in order to exclude them. Notice how they are not swamping Denmark? That was my point.

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  68. @Diversity Heretic
    Thanks for the insight. I was aware of Robert Ménard, but Bruno Gollnisch is a new name for me. The FN movement, under the FN Party banner or otherwise, needs eventually to transcend the Le Pen family (and that's not a criticism of the Le Pen family, but rather an observation about what must be done to build a long-term viable political movement).

    The Bush family is now into the fourth generation of elected officials, it’s still a viable political movement in its own right despite the debacle of the GWB administration.

    What says that the third generation of Le Pen (Marion) could not do better than the second (Marine) generation and first (Jean-Marie)?

    That’s how it was for the Bushes.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Thank you for your comment. I have two observations.

    1. The Bush family has engaged in relatively little (public, at least) intergenerational fighting. Not true, unfortunately, in the case of the Le Pen family.

    2. I'm not at all sure that it redounds to the benefit of the Republican Party, at the national level at least, to be so closely associated with the Bush family. It doesn't make me inclined to vote Republican if yet another Bush becomes a Republican presidential candidate, and I suspect plenty of other people have similar reservations.
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  69. @Rob McX
    DF (Dansk Folkeparti, Danish People’s Party) is actually an economically left-wing party, making it odd to read the press call them right-wing.

    Most anti-immigration parties are not economically right wing. I don't see how they could be while retaining their opposition to immigration. It's the right wing parties who provide most of the support for immigration with their quest for ever cheaper labour. Of course they're also behind the free trade deals that see European and American jobs shipped by the million to countries with lower production costs.

    Back in the 1980′s, the European “far right” was full of people advocating hardcore liberal economics or something close. What happened though is that nationalist political parties could not get any support form the folks who benefitted from those policies. The got their best votes in working class precincts. Party members heard from many people in these communities that they would support them if they would adopt pro-worker economic policies. Doing that lead to a large scale defection of workers from the communist/socialist parties to nationalists parties.

    I suspect something similar will happen here when whites are finally forced by events to organize politically along racial lines. The conservative/liberal polarization among whites will break down. You may have corporate types and even many evangelical fundamentalists not part of the white coalition, but many union workers, environmentalists and atheists will be.

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  70. @Maj. Kong
    The Bush family is now into the fourth generation of elected officials, it's still a viable political movement in its own right despite the debacle of the GWB administration.

    What says that the third generation of Le Pen (Marion) could not do better than the second (Marine) generation and first (Jean-Marie)?

    That's how it was for the Bushes.

    Thank you for your comment. I have two observations.

    1. The Bush family has engaged in relatively little (public, at least) intergenerational fighting. Not true, unfortunately, in the case of the Le Pen family.

    2. I’m not at all sure that it redounds to the benefit of the Republican Party, at the national level at least, to be so closely associated with the Bush family. It doesn’t make me inclined to vote Republican if yet another Bush becomes a Republican presidential candidate, and I suspect plenty of other people have similar reservations.

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  71. @Rob McX
    I agree. Our difference is merely one of taxonomy. I think the whole political spectrum needs to be remapped and fitted with a terminology that supersedes the right/left one. For instance, the capitalist "right" is an ally of the SJW "left", but the latter seems mostly unaware of that fact.

    “For instance, the capitalist “right” is an ally of the SJW “left”, but the latter seems mostly unaware of that fact.”

    Shhhhh …

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  72. @Reg Cæsar

    I know it’s old fashioned and pedantic of me, but when a journalist calls Finland a neighbor of Denmark, I just kind of dismiss the entire work as sloppy and very likely untrue in other areas.

     

    It's only 400 miles from Bornholm to the Finnish coast. Sounds neighborly to me.

    No, not as close as Germany (land border), Sweden (2.5 mi) or Canada (8 mi).

    No, not as close as Germany (land border), Sweden (2.5 mi) or Canada (8 mi).

    Nice observation about Canada! (But where? Some high arctic island near Greenland? Isn’t Greenland independent yet??)

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    If they compromise and split the disputed Hans Island
    in Nares Strait
    , canada and Denmark would have a land border
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  73. @International Jew

    No, not as close as Germany (land border), Sweden (2.5 mi) or Canada (8 mi).
     
    Nice observation about Canada! (But where? Some high arctic island near Greenland? Isn't Greenland independent yet??)

    If they compromise and split the disputed Hans Island
    in Nares Strait
    , canada and Denmark would have a land border

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