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And Then They Came for Opera Conductor James Levine
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James Levine, conductor of the Metropolitan Opera of New York for most of the last four decades, is the latest in Weinsteingate. Apparently it’s been widely rumored for many years that Levine likes teenage boys “Death in Venice”-style, which might expose several deep pocketed institutions to liability. The age of consent in Illinois is 17, 18 in positions of authority or trust, and Levine’s accuser says he was 16. But then it went on until he was 23, so … As one commenter says, this may explain why Levine wouldn’t conduct Benjamin Britten’s boy-crazed operas like Billy Budd or Peter Grimes.

What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?

 
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  1. Apparently Levine’s instrument was a skin flute.

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    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    Joe, it's a little early on Sunday to be workin' blue!
    , @Father O'Hara
    Is that your baton in your pocket,or---oh heck,UNZ is too hi class for that.
    , @Philbert Desanex
    and the upright organ
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  2. The age of consent in Georgia is 17.

    Homophobic Rednecks

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  3. which might expose several deep pocketed institutions to liability.

    Literally the money quote.

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  4. What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?

    The John Jay Report of 2004 established as an authoritative baseline that, in the “Catholic Priest Child Abuse Crisis,” something like 85% of all such incidents were actually homosexual priests grooming confused, postpubescent teenage boys.

    I would expect a similar percentage in this case.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think of the heterosexuals, only Horovitz has been accused of contact with a minor (his family's 16 year old au pair). Even Harvey the Monster didn't hit on underage girls. You'll notice of teacher scandals, most of them nowadays involve female teachers. Heterosexual males have learned that contact with underage females (if there is more than a couple of years of age gap) is severely punished criminally - for most men it's just not worth the risk. Most men nowadays with any brains, no matter how horny they are, regard underage females as kryptonite.

    As far as gays are concerned, the recent scandals almost by definition involve minors. A gay hitting up another gay male adult is, even in the current hysteria, not considered career ending. If Spacey and Levine were only going after adult males no one would have cared.

    The priest abuse scandals by definition involved underage kids - 100% of the victims were underage, whereas in the current scandal that's not true at all.
    , @Anonymous
    Well, there's always guys like Jeffrey Epstein, who by all accounts molested only underage girls. But he gets a pass for some reason. Maybe because he was into 'offshoring' American jobs.
    , @Bill Jones
    The john jay report claimed, it did not "establish".
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  5. All of them.
    It’s as if Pizzagate was real.

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  6. Thank God for Charlie Rose, Garrison Keillor, and Kevin Spacey or you’d think this is all an anti-Semitic witch hunt. I was about to throw in Matt Lauer to the counterexamples list but then read his bio. Romanian Jew.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Not really. His father was Jewish but his mother was not and he was raised without any religion. For Jewish law purposes he scores a zero because religion is determined matrilineally and for secular purposes I would weight him at 0.5 at best.

    Einstein used to joke about how if relativity was proven right (this was before Hitler when it was still possible to joke about such things) then both the Jews and the Germans would claim him as their own but if it was proven wrong then the Jews would consider him German and the Germans would consider him a Jew.

    Then again there were commenters here who were putting Rose in the Joo column (Rose is a Joo name, right - like, uh, Pete Rose) even though he has not a drop of Jewish blood.
    , @Anonymous
    Before he went chrome-dome, I think you could tell that Lauer was only half-jewish.
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  7. So far all of the men accused have hit one or more of the following criteria, in order of frequency:

    Liberal, Over 50, Jewish, Black, Gay, Catholic

    Why is that?

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    • Replies: @2Mintzin1
    Garrison Keillor and Charlie Rose are Catholics? Since when?
    , @Nils anders
    Who was catholic? Seems likevtheres more protestants than catholics
    , @Logan
    The over 50 part is probably related to the age at which they gather enough power to launch their attacks without, till recently, fear of blowback. That and the fact that only prominent men are big news in this regard. Joe Schmo the 33 year old abusive manager of a Pizza Hut is simply not news.
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  8. Levine’s version of the New World Symphony is the best by far.

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    • Replies: @Hubbub
    Agree - my favorite version
    , @Vinteuil
    "Levine’s version of the New World Symphony is the best by far."

    Wha-huh?

    It's workmanlike, I guess - but it's up against some pretty stiff competition: Reiner ('57), Walter, Szell & Silvestri ('59), Stokowski ('73), and above all, Václav Talich ('54).
    , @OperaFan
    Levine is a brilliant interpreter of Wagner and great in the other operas. BUT for straight Dvořák, it is hard to beat Szell and Reiner and Levine does not.
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  9. Q. What’s the difference between a baby and an opera conductor?

    A. The baby sucks his fingers…

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  10. The type is known in gay lingo as “chicken hawk.”

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  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I can only image what kind of stuff might be going on with some of the Broadway people. So many of today’s musicals feature unmasculine male characters singing sappy, unmasculine songs. Many seem to exalt male gayness. I often listen to Sirius XM’s Best of Broadway station, but I find it hard to listen to a lot of the music from more recent musicals.

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    • Replies: @jimbo
    I honestly think that was one of the main reasons why "Hamilton" is such a monster hit. Get rid of the overt faggotry, and the tourists will come to your show...
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  12. Read More
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  13. What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?

    All?

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    • Agree: Malcolm X-Lax
    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    It is very important that the right does not make the same mistake with this new wave of outings that they made with the Catholic Church sexual scandals. By spinning those perpetrators as "pedophiles" instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook. I think that the general population is slowly becoming red pilled to the point where it has become harder to pull off stunts like this, the Haven Monahan brouhaha, and Hillary's 11 'women to come forward' kaka. Harvey Weinstein crossed a red line with his rape but these gays go one step further because their victims are underage so there can be no defense only obfuscation and that can only happen if we let it.
    , @1661er
    The accuser against George Takei was in his 20s when the disputed event occurred. So there is that.
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  14. I welcome the day when we–probably Chinese researchers–figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers … when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it. If hormonal levels could be monitored and proper adjustments made, future generations might well be spared the scourge of homosexuality.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    When I was a kid the idea that homosexuality was somehow communicable was a common hypothesis.

    My middle school gym/health and safety teacher was asked what caused homosexuality and he answered, "You probably catch it by ducking socks".

    Say something like today and you would make the front page of the NYT and have ANTIFA at your front door step.

    Your idea of a vaccine against homosexuality seems less crazy when you read about how babies breastfed by mothers who ingest peanuts appear to be immune to peanut allergies.

    https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/peanut-antigens-in-breast-milk-may-protect-kids-from-allergy
    , @FKA Max

    You know, as a heterosexual man you should be grateful for and cheer on every openly gay man out there, since it means less mating competition for you and other heterosexual men, which contributes to and translates into a more conflict-free, peaceful and less deadly world for men. Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:

    Fecundity of Paternal and Maternal Non-Parental Female Relatives of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

    Moreover, due to the selective increase in maternal female fecundity, the total female fecundity was significantly higher in homosexual than heterosexual probands, thus compensating for the reduced fecundity of homosexuals. Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.

    – http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051088

    Men are dying for sex: Mating competition explains excess male mortality

    – https://phys.org/news/2010-05-men-dying-sex-competition-excess.html
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2074457
    , @Perspective
    There's some research that indicates thyroid dysfunction in either pregnant mothers or infants can lead to homosexuality later in life.

    Study:

    High Rates of Same-Sex Attraction/Gender Nonconformity in the Offspring of Mothers with Thyroid Dysfunction During Pregnancy: Proposal of Prenatal Thyroid Model

    "Fifteen mothers (1.8%) were found to have a history of thyroid dysfunction during pregnancy. Sixteen youngsters (2%) had a history of same-sex attraction. Twelve overlapping cases with both same-sex attraction and maternal thyroid dysfunction during pregnancy were identified, which was extremely significant (P<0.0001, by Fisher’s exact test)"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620281/
    , @Anonymous
    Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn't make it true.)

    As to not having to think and hear about gays, just get rid of liberals. That way, you also don't have to hear about oppressed fat blue-haired black jewish rape survivor girls of color.

    , @SimpleSong
    Another thing to consider is endocrine disruptors like BPA, and possibly other plasticizers. Increased hermaphrodism in frogs and other amphibians has been reported and is possibly associated with these agents, and it wouldn't seem a crazy hypothesis that humans could also be vulnerable.

    Probably multifactorial, of course. Male homosexuality seems innate, in that you can tell what boys are likely to be gay from a very young age, and many male homosexuals could attract females if they wanted. Female homosexuality seems like a fundamentally different thing driven by lack of mating success, and potentially reversible.

    Of course try writing a grant to see if BPA makes rats gay and see how far that gets you.
    , @Jack D
    If by infectious agent you mean something like a virus or bacteria, I'd rate that as being very unlikely. If something like that existed then it would have been found by now. Also contagious diseases spread in certain well known patterns which are nothing like the incidence of homosexuality. Some sort of hormonal imbalances in utero at some critical stage of brain formation are much more likely.
    , @Vinteuil
    Since you speak of an "infectious agent," I take it you buy into something like Gregory Cochran's "gay germ" theory?

    But, in that case, what's with the offensive language? Why gratuitously insult people who are just victims of an illness?
    , @Jim Don Bob

    Imagine a world without queers...
     
    I'd settle for a world where I didn't have to hear about them every day.
    , @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.
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  15. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    One thing that jumps out at me is how far back the trail goes for all of the outed offenders. A guy like Sandusky didn’t just start yesterday but probably had been at it for many years. All along the way people turned a blind eye to what was in front of them. People glossed over Bill Clinton’s predatory behavior because they liked his politics. All of them got a pass until they overreached and enough was enough. Large numbers of people have been enablers and downright complicit in all this. Anyway, I’m enjoying the show and waiting for the next name on the list to be made public.

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    • Replies: @njguy73

    When monsters roam free, we assume that people in positions of authority ought to be able to catch them if only they did their jobs. But that might be wishful thinking. A pedophile...is someone adept not just at preying on children but at confusing, deceiving, and charming the adults responsible for those children.
     

    The successful pedophile does not select his targets arbitrarily. He culls them from a larger pool, testing and probing until he finds the most vulnerable...Children with vigilant parents are too risky.
     
    Malcolm Gladwell, 2012

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/24/in-plain-view
    , @JimB
    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch? I suspect somehow there is a connection between Hillary losing the election and this left-wing pervert Gotterdammerung.
    , @Ygor
    Comments at classical music news site slippedisc dot com indicate Levine's pederasty has long been known within the industry and by fans. The site's proprietor, James Lebrecht, who is coincidentally a co-ethnic of Levine's, has this to say about his silence to date:

    Over the past month, I have been contacted by at least half a dozen news organisations and journalists, all of whom request my help on investigations they were conducting into allegations of misconduct against the emeritus music director of the Metropolitan Opera. They included Reuters, AP, BBC Newsnight and other well-known operations.

    I refused, with one exception, to respond to any request since it was clear to me that these were no more than speculative fishing expeditions. There was, and remains, no evidence to substantiate a welter of suppositions against Mr Levine. Like everyone in the music world, I have heard rumours and investigated some of them. None has been supported by independent third-party testimony.

    The accuser whose story is told in the New York Post contacted me many months ago and several times since. I advised him at first contact to report the matter to the police, which he did. I have his deposition. It is alarming and unpleasant. It is backed by a diary the kept at age 16. It is not, however, substantiated by any other witness.

    On this basis, I declined to publish his allegations. So, too, did the New York Times, which (I am told) is conducting its own inquiry into an incident, possibly related to the Brooklyn Bridge.

    The rumours about James Levine remain rumours until proven. Unless they are, he has no case to answer.
     
    http://slippedisc.com/2017/12/james-levine-a-note-of-caution/
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  16. OT:

    How do ya get deported twenty times? I though re-entry after one deportation was a felony. Well, the U.S. taxpayers get to pay for him for 35 years now before he gets deported again…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5138223/Repeat-Mexican-deportee-sentenced-assault-US.html

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    • Replies: @clyde

    How do ya get deported twenty times? I though re-entry after one deportation was a felony. Well, the U.S. taxpayers get to pay for him for 35 years now before he gets deported again…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5138223/Repeat-Mexican-deportee-sentenced-assault-US.html
     
    It is a felony worth 2 years in prison. If this were widely prosecuted the Feds would have to build 20 new prisons to house them. I am not opposed to building them along the lines of Sheriff Joe's outdoors tent city jails. Show you are serious and the illegal aliens will not come.
    Also the crime you mention is rarely prosecuted because it's a low priority for lazy ass US Attorney offices.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1326
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  17. I have known about Levine’s fondness for boys for at least forty years. Everyone of my music friends also knew. Fewer people knew about Leonard Bernstein – only a few million, I would hazard.

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    • LOL: BB753, Bubba
    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
    As you point out, Levine's predilections have been common knowledge among musicians for decades. One of my aunts, now deceased, had been a singer at the Met. She remarked to me perhaps twenty years ago, with some disgust, that Levine was a "pederast" (her exact description). I never pursued the topic further with her, assuming she meant just that he was homosexual, but now it appears she was being precise.
    , @Daniel H
    I have always seen Classical music conducting and creating as a macho business. The great conductors and composers being commanding, intimidating martinets. I guess a few gays filter in. But have any of the truly greats been gay? Don't mention Levin or Bernstein. A lot of their success may have been due to skillful networking. Anybody have any ideas on this? For example, how many rock gods are gay? How many impressive country or jazz artists have been gay? Not too many.
    , @Ivy
    Why didn't Leonard Bernthtein host some variations on his Radical Chic dinner parties to cater to the local music and art crowd? Maybe he decided there wasn't much glory in the whole thing.
    , @anonymous
    Didn't know this about Levine. I was aware about Bernstein though technically he was a switch hitter. Nevertheless, point taken. Another famous musician who was homosexual was the pianist Vladimir Horowitz who, though "married" (to the daughter of the great conductor Arturo Toscanini no less), was pretty much open about his "gaiety."
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  18. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it. If hormonal levels could be monitored and proper adjustments made, future generations might well be spared the scourge of homosexuality.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Whose hormones? The baby's or the mother's?

    what about the bonding with Dad problem that gets missed in toddlerhood? That one seems more probable to me.

    And it could be that some of these guys just have too many female hormones in their systems. Bad luck genetics.
    , @Thirdeye
    There's support for your theory in recent research into epigenetics, the on/off switching of heritable traits by hormones in the prenatal and perinatal environments. The focus of epigenetic studies related to human development has been on stress-related hormones flipping the switch on Cluster B personality traits - narcissistic, borderline, psychopathic, histrionic, etc. personalities. There is also a non-trivial correlation between those traits and various paraphilias, - fetishes, sado-masochism, pedophilia, homosexuality, etc. A mother exhibiting Cluster B traits is less stress-tolerant than others and more likely to produce Cluster B offspring, through her own personality influence and, potentially, stress-related prenatal and perinatal hormone imbalance. Prenatal and perinatal hormone therapy has potential to save a whole lot of pain down the road.
    , @AnotherDad

    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it.
     
    Realist, that's been my default theory--if forced to have one--since reading a Psychology Today article back in the 70s. I still think some sort of hormone problem--mother's hormones interfering with child's?--during some critical stage of embryonic brain development might be the direct culprit. The fraternal birth order effect--enhanced chance of homosexuality as boy's mother has had more previous male offspring--lends credence to these sorts of speculations.

    But even if this is the case, there's still the question of causation. What hormone interference or breakdown is happening? Why is it happening in these pregnancies and not others? Why is happening to this woman and not others?
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  19. Meanwhile, Accursed Flag of The Ancient Ones full of Eldritch Energies detected in Italy:

    https://www.rt.com/news/411799-german-neo-nazi-flag-italy-barrack/

    A Seveso-level event. I hope a Cordon Sanitaire is being put in place.

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    • Replies: @Venator
    It's the Imperial War Flag of the German Empire. So this gallant Florentine officer is honouring the former enemy of Italy in World War I, and, by temporal extension, the suzerain of Florence, the Holy Roman Empire.
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  20. @Buffalo Joe
    Apparently Levine's instrument was a skin flute.

    Joe, it’s a little early on Sunday to be workin’ blue!

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    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Ben, maybe I was just getting home. Not really, sorry.
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  21. Levine, Weinstein and Kevin Spacey all have the French or German word for ‘wine’ included in their names. Perhaps they should never have been uncorked.

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    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    No doubt Spacey has been "plugged" many times.
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  22. It’s a long time to think back in an event-filled year, but Milo Yiannopoulos jumped into a storm not long ago essentially admitting that pederasty is a normal part of the homosexual male lifestyle and experience. It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    It’s a long time to think back in an event-filled year, but Milo Yiannopoulos jumped into a storm not long ago essentially admitting that pederasty is a normal part of the homosexual male lifestyle and experience.
     
    My sense was that Milo raised the issue in order to start a "national discussion" about it.
    , @AnotherDad

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.
     
    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left's equalist ideology is that different things are ... the same.

    It's not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some "switch" flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now--perhaps most laughably of all--it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I'm not even a particuarly "conservative" guy by nature. I'm somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.
    , @BB753
    Milo is writing a book:

    "Dangerous Books, a division of MILO, Inc., has announced that it will publish DESPICABLE, a tell-all expose on how it became more dangerous in Hollywood to be a Republican than a child molester.

    DESPICABLE paints a horrific picture of the abuses of men, women and children at the hands of some of the richest and most powerful people in America.

    The book is authored by award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author, Milo Yiannopoulos. It will be released on May 1, 2018."

    https://www.dangerous.com/37151/exclusive-milo-expose-sordid-sexually-abusive-hypocritical-world-hollywood-new-book/
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  23. This all benefits the great homosexual shegetz conspiracy. We must stop the homosexual shegetz from corrupting our society. They’ll be coming for the rest of us soon. Stop the homosexual shegetz witch hunts.

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    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Nah. They wont be coming after us. We're too old. Its our boys with the cute pooters they will keep coming after.

    Does your high school have a Gay and Lesbian Student Education Network (GLSEN) chapter? Do your kids stop by the local clubhouse after school and on the weekends?
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  24. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomas
    It’s a long time to think back in an event-filled year, but Milo Yiannopoulos jumped into a storm not long ago essentially admitting that pederasty is a normal part of the homosexual male lifestyle and experience. It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.

    It’s a long time to think back in an event-filled year, but Milo Yiannopoulos jumped into a storm not long ago essentially admitting that pederasty is a normal part of the homosexual male lifestyle and experience.

    My sense was that Milo raised the issue in order to start a “national discussion” about it.

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  25. It’s news to me if James Levine is an actual or borderline pederast, but if true it helps explain something that has always puzzled me: the extravagant praise and veneration he receives. I have never heard any recorded performance he conducted that struck me as more than routinely competent. So I guess we not only have the Jewish Mafia in the classical music world, we also have the Homintern.

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    • Replies: @Aylok
    Consider his piano skills though - here he is with Troyanos in Ravel's fiendishly difficult 'Asie': https://youtu.be/lwS8im5rjvU?t=6m10s
    , @Bubba
    You got that right - the adulation he received was all nonsense. The only reason he stayed on for 40 years at the Met was because he could raise massive funds from elderly widows to fund his lifestyle, certainly not because of his mediocre talent. Getting money into the Met is the most important function for a conductor and it is cutthroat. Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera - had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years (now that's an interesting read). BTW, Levine is (and has always been) a notorious pederast and everyone at the Met knew. Even the NYC police wanted to arrest him in the early 90's, but the investigation was squashed. He was untouchable like Weinstein until now. The lawyers smell blood money in the water and won't stop until they start feeding on each other (please notice how there are no high priced lawyers accused of sexual misconduct - yet).
    , @Baythoven
    "So I guess we not only have the Jewish Mafia in the classical music world, we also have the Homintern."

    Yes, we have both. Once you're aware of it, the evidence continues to pile up. I just experienced another example less than a week ago -- a piano performance on the local classical station that was so poor -- shoddy execution, trite interpretation -- that I went to the bother of finding out the performer on the station's website....some Jewish name. Then I checked out the guy's picture on an image search....flaming gay. Gay mag pieces, pictures with his partner, etc.
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  26. I read at least 15 years ago that no singer – man or woman – would be contracted to sing at the Met if they didn’t accept Levine’s advances.

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  27. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a homosexual talking about his early teenage years without fondly recollecting being deflowered by a much older man.

    I also can’t remember the last public homosexual who did not turn out to have had sex with underage boys, unless its the ones whose private lives we know nothing about.

    It’s the kind of iron regularity you get with race hoaxes, and the same insomnia.

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    • Replies: @kihowi

    insomnia
     
    That should have been "amnesia". Durrr.
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  28. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    When I was a kid the idea that homosexuality was somehow communicable was a common hypothesis.

    My middle school gym/health and safety teacher was asked what caused homosexuality and he answered, “You probably catch it by ducking socks”.

    Say something like today and you would make the front page of the NYT and have ANTIFA at your front door step.

    Your idea of a vaccine against homosexuality seems less crazy when you read about how babies breastfed by mothers who ingest peanuts appear to be immune to peanut allergies.

    https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/peanut-antigens-in-breast-milk-may-protect-kids-from-allergy

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    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    To attack Hitler, the Allies used black propaganda insinuating he was gay. If WW2 was fought today they literally could not do it. They would have to smear him as being racist (duh), sexist, or being cruel to animals (Shooting Seals).
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  29. @kihowi
    I don't think I've ever heard a homosexual talking about his early teenage years without fondly recollecting being deflowered by a much older man.

    I also can't remember the last public homosexual who did not turn out to have had sex with underage boys, unless its the ones whose private lives we know nothing about.

    It's the kind of iron regularity you get with race hoaxes, and the same insomnia.

    insomnia

    That should have been “amnesia”. Durrr.

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  30. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    You know, as a heterosexual man you should be grateful for and cheer on every openly gay man out there, since it means less mating competition for you and other heterosexual men, which contributes to and translates into a more conflict-free, peaceful and less deadly world for men. Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:

    Fecundity of Paternal and Maternal Non-Parental Female Relatives of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

    Moreover, due to the selective increase in maternal female fecundity, the total female fecundity was significantly higher in homosexual than heterosexual probands, thus compensating for the reduced fecundity of homosexuals. Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051088

    Men are dying for sex: Mating competition explains excess male mortality

    https://phys.org/news/2010-05-men-dying-sex-competition-excess.html

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2074457

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I've read that study. To summarize, women with gay brothers give birth to more children. Apparently there's a man-lust gene that in women, makes them chase men and breed a lot, but when their brothers get it, it turns them gay.

    There appears to be a comparable gene that's a women-lust gene. When men have it, they chase after women right and left, but if their sisters and daughters inherit it, it turns them lesbian.

    In a world with rationally chosen birth control, the above genes will get ahead of normal competition and start spreading faster, because the urges created by them are very powerful and difficult to control. Rationally chosen 2 kids versus irrational birth of 3 or more kids, and you've got the above situation.

    , @Jack D
    In that case, men should be highly opposed to lesbians. Butch lesbians do in fact consider men to be their competitors in pursuing females. Aren't the # of male and female gays roughly balanced so that the effects cancel out?
    , @AnotherDad

    Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:
     
    Malaria has a "purpose" ... doesn't mean it's pleasant to have around.
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  31. @Thomas
    It’s a long time to think back in an event-filled year, but Milo Yiannopoulos jumped into a storm not long ago essentially admitting that pederasty is a normal part of the homosexual male lifestyle and experience. It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.

    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left’s equalist ideology is that different things are … the same.

    It’s not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some “switch” flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now–perhaps most laughably of all–it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I’m not even a particuarly “conservative” guy by nature. I’m somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    Read More
    • Agree: Perspective
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Very nicely stated. You could very likely get an overwhelming proportion of the (heritage) American public to assent to those propositions, if they weren’t afraid of being attacked for badthink.
    , @Randal

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.
     
    Lots and lots of propaganda over decades, paid for or wheedled into circulation by those with a direct interest in normalising these ideas, combined with plenty of peer pressure and direct self-interest in either pretending to believe it or convincing oneself to internalise it thoroughly.

    Liberal democracies seem particularly vulnerable to this kind of manipulation by minority identity lobbies.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Agree.
    , @Mr. Anon

    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left’s equalist ideology is that different things are … the same.
     
    We will know we have achieved true diversity when everything is indistinguishable from everything else.

    Another verse to add to the Ingsoc creed: Diversity is Sameness!
    , @Chrisnonymous

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.
     
    Lifetime employment. Plus, the benefits are great!

    (The book Thinking Fast and Slow has an explanation. Unfortunately, Steve has thrown it into the outer darkness.)
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  32. @AnotherDad

    What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?
     
    All?

    It is very important that the right does not make the same mistake with this new wave of outings that they made with the Catholic Church sexual scandals. By spinning those perpetrators as “pedophiles” instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook. I think that the general population is slowly becoming red pilled to the point where it has become harder to pull off stunts like this, the Haven Monahan brouhaha, and Hillary’s 11 ‘women to come forward’ kaka. Harvey Weinstein crossed a red line with his rape but these gays go one step further because their victims are underage so there can be no defense only obfuscation and that can only happen if we let it.

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    • Agree: dfordoom
    • Replies: @Forbes

    By spinning those perpetrators as “pedophiles” instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook.
     
    I remember many a heated discussion trying to explain to people that male/gay underage (of consent) sex (with another male) was not automatically pedophilia--that such contact with post-pubescent males was homosexual sex. It was a distinction people (Church haters) refused to hear.

    As you suggest, the prog-left wanted to destroy the Catholic Church, but stay as far away as possible from addressing homosexual tendencies, that setting The Narrative as a pedo scandal would do the trick to destroy it.

    Noting that I'm not Catholic, so I've no agenda other than clarity on the matter.
    , @Crawfurdmuir
    What might be called the "classical model" of homosexuality - the only kind that really met the approval of ancient Greek society - involved an adult man (the erastes) and an adolescent boy (the eromenos). The liaisons of Harmodius and Aristogeiton, and of Hadrian and Antinous, were of this type. There is ample documentation for this, from Plato's Symposium and Virgil's second Eclogue, in which it was idealized, to the Satiricon of Petronius, in which the squabble between the protagonists Encolpius and Ascyltus over the catamite Giton is made into low comedy, and the twelfth volume of the Palatine Anthology, which is made up of short verses that amount mostly to salacious jokes.

    When all of the scandals involving Catholic clergy and adolescent males began to be made public, I could not help being impressed that the Church of Rome, though it had by then largely discarded the Latin language, had so faithfully preserved this particular aspect of classical antiquity.
    , @TheJester
    Homosexuals like to distinguish between homosexuals (good guys who go after legally aged boys) and pedophiles (bad guys who go after underage boys). However, I've run across a number of homosexuals in the media who forthrightly declare that "twinkies" are part of the homosexual scene ... so, let's be honest about it.

    Below is from Wikipedia. Notice the obfuscation:

    Twink is gay slang for a young man in his late teens to early twenties, with traits that can include attractiveness, having little or no body or facial hair, a slim to average build, or appearing to be younger than their actual age.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twink_%28gay_slang%29

    So, lets' change my lead-in to accommodate this political correctness: Homosexuals like to distinguish between homosexuals (good guys who go after legally aged boys who look like underage boys) and pedophiles (bad guys who go after underage boys). The difference?
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  33. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    There’s some research that indicates thyroid dysfunction in either pregnant mothers or infants can lead to homosexuality later in life.

    Study:

    High Rates of Same-Sex Attraction/Gender Nonconformity in the Offspring of Mothers with Thyroid Dysfunction During Pregnancy: Proposal of Prenatal Thyroid Model

    “Fifteen mothers (1.8%) were found to have a history of thyroid dysfunction during pregnancy. Sixteen youngsters (2%) had a history of same-sex attraction. Twelve overlapping cases with both same-sex attraction and maternal thyroid dysfunction during pregnancy were identified, which was extremely significant (P<0.0001, by Fisher’s exact test)"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620281/

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  34. A huge proportion, if not close to all, of gay men in human history were involved with underage persons; if anything it’s a very small number of late 20th-21st century moderns that are the exceptions.

    This has to be understood when looking at historical records, sources, and so on, with all the talk of governments and religious institutions and everything persecuting homosexuals; their behavior would also not be acceptable to modern moral crusaders. We’re talking all the way to Ancient Rome etc here. Just maybe the occasional historical figure, someone like Kolmogorov was otherwise on the level.

    It’s one of the things that might eventually be properly explained with an understanding of the genetics of homosexuality, assuming there aren’t truly multiple types of male homosexuality that are poorly operationalized and measured. Regardless other crazy hypotheses are wrong, ignoring all completely nonscientific explanations (Satanism etc), homosexuality is caused by rare genetic mutations, and while the latter possibility is underexplored as a cause of confounding in noisy research datasets, there’s certainly nothing surprising or even necessary having an influence in modern day culture or politics per se.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    A huge proportion, if not close to all, of gay men in human history were involved with underage persons
     
    The detailed, comprehensive knowledge of many contributors here never ceases to amaze me.
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  35. @AnotherDad

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.
     
    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left's equalist ideology is that different things are ... the same.

    It's not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some "switch" flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now--perhaps most laughably of all--it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I'm not even a particuarly "conservative" guy by nature. I'm somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    Very nicely stated. You could very likely get an overwhelming proportion of the (heritage) American public to assent to those propositions, if they weren’t afraid of being attacked for badthink.

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  36. @AnotherDad

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.
     
    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left's equalist ideology is that different things are ... the same.

    It's not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some "switch" flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now--perhaps most laughably of all--it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I'm not even a particuarly "conservative" guy by nature. I'm somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    Lots and lots of propaganda over decades, paid for or wheedled into circulation by those with a direct interest in normalising these ideas, combined with plenty of peer pressure and direct self-interest in either pretending to believe it or convincing oneself to internalise it thoroughly.

    Liberal democracies seem particularly vulnerable to this kind of manipulation by minority identity lobbies.

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  37. @AnotherDad

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.
     
    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left's equalist ideology is that different things are ... the same.

    It's not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some "switch" flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now--perhaps most laughably of all--it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I'm not even a particuarly "conservative" guy by nature. I'm somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    Agree.

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  38. @Thomas
    It’s a long time to think back in an event-filled year, but Milo Yiannopoulos jumped into a storm not long ago essentially admitting that pederasty is a normal part of the homosexual male lifestyle and experience. It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.

    Milo is writing a book:

    “Dangerous Books, a division of MILO, Inc., has announced that it will publish DESPICABLE, a tell-all expose on how it became more dangerous in Hollywood to be a Republican than a child molester.

    DESPICABLE paints a horrific picture of the abuses of men, women and children at the hands of some of the richest and most powerful people in America.

    The book is authored by award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author, Milo Yiannopoulos. It will be released on May 1, 2018.”

    https://www.dangerous.com/37151/exclusive-milo-expose-sordid-sexually-abusive-hypocritical-world-hollywood-new-book/

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  39. Eventually Big Brother is going to find out that we’re all just a bunch of perverts and he’s going to have to take away all our jobs, erase all records of our existence, and put an end to humanity and its history.

    Is this is how the world ends?

    I’m not defending the behavior. I am enjoying the schadenfreude as a bunch of people I think are scoundrels get publicly humiliated. However, one does wonder where we draw the line. Steve keeps implying this with each installment of And Then They Came For.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Eventually Big Brother is going to find out that we’re all just a bunch of perverts and he’s going to have to take away all our jobs, erase all records of our existence, and put an end to humanity and its history.

    Is this is how the world ends?

    I’m not defending the behavior. I am enjoying the schadenfreude as a bunch of people I think are scoundrels get publicly humiliated. However, one does wonder where we draw the line. Steve keeps implying this with each installment of And Then They Came For.
     

    You could say this, but actually the world is getting to be a better place.

    I'll use a term from Whiskey here, situational alphas, as that generally describes most of these guys getting smoked out. That is, shorn of their status/power, they'd likely not be doing too well in the sexual marketplace.

    Personally, I can't imagine pressuring an employee for sex in exchange for promotion, career advancement (or simply making any advances on an employee) and I'm in a position to do so and have been for many years. This isn't what normal, decent people do. It is what loser (with women) boys do when they win in some other aspect of their life and start transacting for sexual favors.

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.

    Now with the all the transparency that internet gives society, women (and men occasionally) can smoke out these creeps.

    I don't see what there isn't to like in all this, but that may be just because they haven't come for anonguy yet. But in the meantime, it just seems like the internet/social media is making the sexual marketplace more efficient, rooting out fraudsters, bad actors, etc.

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  40. Read More
    • LOL: AndrewR
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  41. Levine makes the three dollar bill look like legal tender. Always did.

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  42. @AnotherDad

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.
     
    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left's equalist ideology is that different things are ... the same.

    It's not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some "switch" flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now--perhaps most laughably of all--it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I'm not even a particuarly "conservative" guy by nature. I'm somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left’s equalist ideology is that different things are … the same.

    We will know we have achieved true diversity when everything is indistinguishable from everything else.

    Another verse to add to the Ingsoc creed: Diversity is Sameness!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Many people who celebrate diversity seem to often speak with glee about how everyone in the not too distant future will be brown. Yay diversity!
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  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t understand how this is surprising at all. I don’t know about opera, but gay men are vastly represented among professional pianists and violinists This is especially true in classical music. There are several reasons for this: first, becoming really good in the piano or violin is helped by having long fingers and delicate hands, something that extreme macho mesomorph types do not have. One of the reasons why Ryan Gosling was cast for “La La Land” is because he’s the rare leading man that has the aristocratic hands with thin, long figers that you often see in professional pianists. Leading men tend to be masculine guys, and masculine guys ofen have thick palms and stubby fingers that make playing the piano or violin harder. Secondly, classical music is beautiful, and gay men like beautiful things. Thirdly, gay men like to be the center of attention like females, and nothing gives you as much praise and applause as being a great soloist in classical music. Not only do you get applauded by thousands of people, but also the people applauding you are the best of society, the economic, political and cultural elites – European art music is pretty much an elite thing.

    Now, conductors are a diferent story. Conductors tend to be guys that have a stereotypically masculine desire to , well, to lead. Gay men tend to be less represented among conductors. Conductors also are often pianists and violinists, but they tend to be less gay. Great maestros have a combination of artistic sensitivity with a masculine persona. Such a combination is really rare, which is why maestros tend to be extradordinary individuals. Both Beethoven and Mozart were also maestros besides beinjg composers. Beethoven was a straight man, and Mozart, despite being a small man with a delicate appearance, had a very strong masculine personality(people were terrified of upsetting Mozart. The man was not exactly pleasant).

    I think that maybe conductors and maestros have a tendecy to be bisexual, due to that combination of artistic sensitivity with masculine desire to lead.

    Regarding teenaged boys, there is a type of gay man that goes exclusively for boys around age 16, give or take a couple years. They usually don’t find grown men attractive. The ancient Hellenes called these men pederasts. Pederasts tend to be harder to spot than gays that like manly men, because they tend to be more similar to heterosexual men in attitude and interests.

    I find it 100% plausible that this man harrassed teenaged boys, considering what I know about artists playing classical music.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Regarding teenaged boys, there is a type of gay man that goes exclusively for boys around age 16, give or take a couple years. They usually don’t find grown men attractive. The ancient Hellenes called these men pederasts. Pederasts tend to be harder to spot than gays that like manly men, because they tend to be more similar to heterosexual men in attitude and interests.
     
    I'd say take a couple of years, if my own #MeToo(s) are any indication, seemed like when I was 12/13/14 was when creepy guys, we used to call them dirty old men, took interest in me or friends.

    But maybe that is a different subset of sexual predators.

    FWIW, this whole sexual harassment trend is highlighting how unattractive being a dirty old man is, maybe the concept will come into currency.
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  44. Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    Sorry, old news!
    , @Father O'Hara
    Yeah,his son,Adam,the Beastie Boy,backed up the women and not his father. There is some bad blood between the two. It seems young Adam's girlfriend was raped by his dad. When she told him,you can imagine---Wait!! WHAT?????? Dear God in heaven! We've had some awkward holiday dinners,but these guys...
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  45. @Pat Boyle
    I have known about Levine's fondness for boys for at least forty years. Everyone of my music friends also knew. Fewer people knew about Leonard Bernstein - only a few million, I would hazard.

    As you point out, Levine’s predilections have been common knowledge among musicians for decades. One of my aunts, now deceased, had been a singer at the Met. She remarked to me perhaps twenty years ago, with some disgust, that Levine was a “pederast” (her exact description). I never pursued the topic further with her, assuming she meant just that he was homosexual, but now it appears she was being precise.

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  46. Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    The two concerns in relation to adult homosexuals and sexual harassment is whether they have too much access to teenage boys, and whether or not the liberal media has been going easy on them. You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males,..............
     
    Do they?

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I'm sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did. Is there any comparable phenomenon to be found among straight men? Not a few outliers, I mean, but an actual subculture of straight men dedicated to racking up the score like that?

    It seems to me that there is good evidence that gays, in some ways, have different mental wiring than normal people altogether.
    , @Anon
    Yes, but the majority of horny heterosexual males are fine with women over legal age, over 18, and the number who chase jailbait is only a small percentage. An awful lot of gay males only want them if they're under 16. That's not normal. It appears that the power/domination imbalance of the situation is what attracts them.
    , @dfordoom

    Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency.
     
    No they don't. Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men. To a degree that almost defies belief. To a certain extent that's the defining characteristic of male homosexuality - an insanely overactive sex drive.

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls.
     
    An interest in underage girls is not particularly common among heterosexual men. An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.

    This "equivalency" idea is one of the big lies that we've been told. Homosexual men are not remotely similar to heterosexual men in any way. Sexually and emotionally they are entirely different.
    , @larry lurker

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.
     
    This hasn't been my experience. I did a lot of theater from age 16 up through college, and...the one incident that sticks out most in my mind was our morbidly obese 40-something director going in for a kiss with my straight friend, a really good looking 16-year-old baseball player, when they were alone after rehearsal. Many of the older guys would make passes at me and my friends while we were still minors. It wasn't a daily occurrence but it wasn't rare either. Another director's boyfriend grabbed me very aggressively in the parking lot after a cast party. Yet another guy, a professor in his early 60's, was openly dating a 17-year-old (who looked about 14), taking him out to dinner... it looked like something out of L.I.E. I could go on.

    If the older straight guys in the cast - and there were quite a few of them - were doing this kind of stuff with the teenage girls, I never heard about it.


    You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.
     
    This is also a factor, I think.
    , @Big Bill

    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.
     
    You are so precious, bless your heart. You must be from the Will & Grace/"Angels in America" generation. "They are just like us, only different."

    The sad fact is that it takes truly grotesque levels of promiscuity and sexual perversion to spread (and keep spreading) AIDS. And there are many, Many, MANY things that girls and women Just. Won't. Do.

    Read Larry Kramer's book "Faggots". Read "And the Band Played On". Look up "barebacking", "bug chasers", and "bathhouses". Google "prolapsed anus" and "NAMBLA". Search the CDC archives for their hundreds of research reports on MSM sex over the last 40 years. Download Grindr and take a peek. Google images and videos (in uncensored mode, natch) for the Folsom Street parade held annually in San Francisco for over forty years now.

    My goodness gracious, there is so much evidence right under your nose! When GRID (gay-related immune deficiency) was announced way back in the Dark Ages I was a university student and was forced to satisfy my curiosity (and quiet my fears) at the many University libraries. But you, my friend, have the Internet.
    , @Brutusale
    This topic is raging in the People's Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Our distinguished Senate president, Stanley Rosenberg (quelle surprise, right?) just resigned his leadership position while his "husband" is investigated for using Daddy's name and position to sexually assault/harass men on four separate occasions.

    Rosenberg is 68, husband is 30. How would a 68-year old senator with a 30-year old wife go over on Beacon Hill?

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_politics/2017/12/senate_ethics_committee_formally_launches_rosenberg_probe

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/howie_carr/2017/12/carr_bryon_hands_hefner_could_net_2m_from_sugar_daddy_s_benefits

    Rosenberg must have a Pee-Wee Herman fetish, judging by the photos of boy toy Byron Hefner!
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  47. A guy who is really into opera turns out to be gay? Wow! Who could have seen that coming?

    I notice that James Levine also has VIH (very important hair). I guess it’s part of the Maestro image.

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  48. The obligatory Big Lebowski clip:

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    • Replies: @jimbo
    Yeah, but that pervert can roll...
    , @Anonymous
    American Conversation in a Nutshell

    https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/framed-print/images-medium-5/two-men-at-a-bar-discuss-the-big-lebowski-tom-toro.jpg

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  49. @anonymous-antimarxist
    When I was a kid the idea that homosexuality was somehow communicable was a common hypothesis.

    My middle school gym/health and safety teacher was asked what caused homosexuality and he answered, "You probably catch it by ducking socks".

    Say something like today and you would make the front page of the NYT and have ANTIFA at your front door step.

    Your idea of a vaccine against homosexuality seems less crazy when you read about how babies breastfed by mothers who ingest peanuts appear to be immune to peanut allergies.

    https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/peanut-antigens-in-breast-milk-may-protect-kids-from-allergy

    To attack Hitler, the Allies used black propaganda insinuating he was gay. If WW2 was fought today they literally could not do it. They would have to smear him as being racist (duh), sexist, or being cruel to animals (Shooting Seals).

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  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn’t make it true.)

    As to not having to think and hear about gays, just get rid of liberals. That way, you also don’t have to hear about oppressed fat blue-haired black jewish rape survivor girls of color.

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    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn’t make it true.)

    I don't understand how proposing a gay germ theory can be "crafted out of personal hatred". Cochran simply muses on a perplexing matter that has caused and still causes misery to scores of millions of people, not just those afflicted with homosexuality, but their families too.

    A germ theory makes some sense, even to one as ignorant in biology as myself. Cochran's theory is supported by the fact that male homosexuality is more prevalent in those born in urban and suburban areas than rural areas (the statistics control for the fact that many gays move to urban/suburban areas to escape the isolation gays sense in rural life.) Furthermore, evidence has demonstrated that in just recently contacted human groups (Amazon Indian tribes) male homosexuality was completely unknown. Contact with the outside world, and the possible occurrence of homosexuality in these groups may reinforce his theory.

    Many gays seem to be happy with their disposition, but many are not. I have known some. If there were a reliable, certain remedy to eliminate homosexuality, and turn a homosexual towards heterosexuality, millions of gays would take up this remedy.
    , @larry lurker
    Cochran's gay germ hypothesis is the only explanation for homosexuality I've come across that makes any evolutionary sense to me. As for homophobia, he seems to genuinely appreciate openly gay commenter misdreavus on West Hunter, so it can't be that bad. I don't think he came up with the hypothesis just to slander gay men.
    , @MEH 0910

    (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred
     
    No, it was crafted it out of his numeracy.
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  51. @Prof. Woland
    It is very important that the right does not make the same mistake with this new wave of outings that they made with the Catholic Church sexual scandals. By spinning those perpetrators as "pedophiles" instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook. I think that the general population is slowly becoming red pilled to the point where it has become harder to pull off stunts like this, the Haven Monahan brouhaha, and Hillary's 11 'women to come forward' kaka. Harvey Weinstein crossed a red line with his rape but these gays go one step further because their victims are underage so there can be no defense only obfuscation and that can only happen if we let it.

    By spinning those perpetrators as “pedophiles” instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook.

    I remember many a heated discussion trying to explain to people that male/gay underage (of consent) sex (with another male) was not automatically pedophilia–that such contact with post-pubescent males was homosexual sex. It was a distinction people (Church haters) refused to hear.

    As you suggest, the prog-left wanted to destroy the Catholic Church, but stay as far away as possible from addressing homosexual tendencies, that setting The Narrative as a pedo scandal would do the trick to destroy it.

    Noting that I’m not Catholic, so I’ve no agenda other than clarity on the matter.

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  52. anon • Disclaimer says:

    In the biography of Harvey Milk, The Mayor Of Castro Street, it mentions that Harvey Milk used to go to the Metropolitan Opera as an eleven-year-old boy, where he found an army of gay men willing to molest him.

    And it’s in the first ten pages or so. It’s not like you have to read the whole book to get to it. But people still act like it’s some completely obscure fact.

    Even now, news articles about the current scandal won’t bring it up.

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  53. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Will he be charged with a crime? Will any of his young victims testify in court? Will there actually be an investigation by the NY District Attorney’s office?

    What if his young victims were “provided” for him?
    Will he squeal on those who are a part of his ring?
    In that case, would he even live to see a trial?

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  54. @Tulip Bulb Millionaire
    It's news to me if James Levine is an actual or borderline pederast, but if true it helps explain something that has always puzzled me: the extravagant praise and veneration he receives. I have never heard any recorded performance he conducted that struck me as more than routinely competent. So I guess we not only have the Jewish Mafia in the classical music world, we also have the Homintern.

    Consider his piano skills though – here he is with Troyanos in Ravel’s fiendishly difficult ‘Asie’:

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  55. @Anonymous
    I don't understand how this is surprising at all. I don't know about opera, but gay men are vastly represented among professional pianists and violinists This is especially true in classical music. There are several reasons for this: first, becoming really good in the piano or violin is helped by having long fingers and delicate hands, something that extreme macho mesomorph types do not have. One of the reasons why Ryan Gosling was cast for "La La Land" is because he's the rare leading man that has the aristocratic hands with thin, long figers that you often see in professional pianists. Leading men tend to be masculine guys, and masculine guys ofen have thick palms and stubby fingers that make playing the piano or violin harder. Secondly, classical music is beautiful, and gay men like beautiful things. Thirdly, gay men like to be the center of attention like females, and nothing gives you as much praise and applause as being a great soloist in classical music. Not only do you get applauded by thousands of people, but also the people applauding you are the best of society, the economic, political and cultural elites - European art music is pretty much an elite thing.

    Now, conductors are a diferent story. Conductors tend to be guys that have a stereotypically masculine desire to , well, to lead. Gay men tend to be less represented among conductors. Conductors also are often pianists and violinists, but they tend to be less gay. Great maestros have a combination of artistic sensitivity with a masculine persona. Such a combination is really rare, which is why maestros tend to be extradordinary individuals. Both Beethoven and Mozart were also maestros besides beinjg composers. Beethoven was a straight man, and Mozart, despite being a small man with a delicate appearance, had a very strong masculine personality(people were terrified of upsetting Mozart. The man was not exactly pleasant).

    I think that maybe conductors and maestros have a tendecy to be bisexual, due to that combination of artistic sensitivity with masculine desire to lead.

    Regarding teenaged boys, there is a type of gay man that goes exclusively for boys around age 16, give or take a couple years. They usually don't find grown men attractive. The ancient Hellenes called these men pederasts. Pederasts tend to be harder to spot than gays that like manly men, because they tend to be more similar to heterosexual men in attitude and interests.

    I find it 100% plausible that this man harrassed teenaged boys, considering what I know about artists playing classical music.

    Regarding teenaged boys, there is a type of gay man that goes exclusively for boys around age 16, give or take a couple years. They usually don’t find grown men attractive. The ancient Hellenes called these men pederasts. Pederasts tend to be harder to spot than gays that like manly men, because they tend to be more similar to heterosexual men in attitude and interests.

    I’d say take a couple of years, if my own #MeToo(s) are any indication, seemed like when I was 12/13/14 was when creepy guys, we used to call them dirty old men, took interest in me or friends.

    But maybe that is a different subset of sexual predators.

    FWIW, this whole sexual harassment trend is highlighting how unattractive being a dirty old man is, maybe the concept will come into currency.

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  56. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    OT: It looks like Andrew McCabe and Rod Rosenstein are being prepared for firing. They were originally ordered to hand over all documents relating to the Trump investigation to Congress in early October, but chose to stonewall instead. In the wake of the revelation about Strzok, they’ve just been given 1 business day by Nunes to cough up. If they don’t, they will be acting in contempt of Congress.

    But the important thing is, once they do disobey Congress, Trump now has the perfect pretext to fire them and get rid of two Obama era holdovers in his administration. Perfect.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    McCabe is a government lifer. Rosenberg was career government as well, but is as we speak a discretionary appointment of the Administration. (I would wager both are loyal to the Washington legal establishment, which is Trump's enemy).
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  57. @Buzz Mohawk
    Eventually Big Brother is going to find out that we're all just a bunch of perverts and he's going to have to take away all our jobs, erase all records of our existence, and put an end to humanity and its history.

    Is this is how the world ends?

    I'm not defending the behavior. I am enjoying the schadenfreude as a bunch of people I think are scoundrels get publicly humiliated. However, one does wonder where we draw the line. Steve keeps implying this with each installment of And Then They Came For.

    Eventually Big Brother is going to find out that we’re all just a bunch of perverts and he’s going to have to take away all our jobs, erase all records of our existence, and put an end to humanity and its history.

    Is this is how the world ends?

    I’m not defending the behavior. I am enjoying the schadenfreude as a bunch of people I think are scoundrels get publicly humiliated. However, one does wonder where we draw the line. Steve keeps implying this with each installment of And Then They Came For.

    You could say this, but actually the world is getting to be a better place.

    I’ll use a term from Whiskey here, situational alphas, as that generally describes most of these guys getting smoked out. That is, shorn of their status/power, they’d likely not be doing too well in the sexual marketplace.

    Personally, I can’t imagine pressuring an employee for sex in exchange for promotion, career advancement (or simply making any advances on an employee) and I’m in a position to do so and have been for many years. This isn’t what normal, decent people do. It is what loser (with women) boys do when they win in some other aspect of their life and start transacting for sexual favors.

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.

    Now with the all the transparency that internet gives society, women (and men occasionally) can smoke out these creeps.

    I don’t see what there isn’t to like in all this, but that may be just because they haven’t come for anonguy yet. But in the meantime, it just seems like the internet/social media is making the sexual marketplace more efficient, rooting out fraudsters, bad actors, etc.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.
     
    In many of these cases, the women are no more innocent than the men.

    All relationships are power struggles. Everyone uses everyone. A man's sexual desire is a tremendous weakness - a crushing liability - that an attractive, ambitious woman can easily exploit.

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.

    When you get to the point where a woman - any woman - can destroy a man's - any man's - career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking "He touched my breast twenty years ago!", then you are treading on very thin ice.

    I'm not saying that guys like Weinstein and Franken shouldn't be taken down. I am saying that giving women more power over men is not necessarily a good thing.
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  58. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    You know, as a heterosexual man you should be grateful for and cheer on every openly gay man out there, since it means less mating competition for you and other heterosexual men, which contributes to and translates into a more conflict-free, peaceful and less deadly world for men. Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:

    Fecundity of Paternal and Maternal Non-Parental Female Relatives of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

    Moreover, due to the selective increase in maternal female fecundity, the total female fecundity was significantly higher in homosexual than heterosexual probands, thus compensating for the reduced fecundity of homosexuals. Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.

    – http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051088

    Men are dying for sex: Mating competition explains excess male mortality

    – https://phys.org/news/2010-05-men-dying-sex-competition-excess.html
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2074457

    I’ve read that study. To summarize, women with gay brothers give birth to more children. Apparently there’s a man-lust gene that in women, makes them chase men and breed a lot, but when their brothers get it, it turns them gay.

    There appears to be a comparable gene that’s a women-lust gene. When men have it, they chase after women right and left, but if their sisters and daughters inherit it, it turns them lesbian.

    In a world with rationally chosen birth control, the above genes will get ahead of normal competition and start spreading faster, because the urges created by them are very powerful and difficult to control. Rationally chosen 2 kids versus irrational birth of 3 or more kids, and you’ve got the above situation.

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  59. @Pat Boyle
    I have known about Levine's fondness for boys for at least forty years. Everyone of my music friends also knew. Fewer people knew about Leonard Bernstein - only a few million, I would hazard.

    I have always seen Classical music conducting and creating as a macho business. The great conductors and composers being commanding, intimidating martinets. I guess a few gays filter in. But have any of the truly greats been gay? Don’t mention Levin or Bernstein. A lot of their success may have been due to skillful networking. Anybody have any ideas on this? For example, how many rock gods are gay? How many impressive country or jazz artists have been gay? Not too many.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    AIDS death rates in the 1980s provided a lot of hard evidence of rates of homosexuality by profession. For example, ballet/modern dance got hit hard, as did figure skating. Professional golf, not so much. I don't recall much about conductors one way or another.

    It could be that there is a symphony vs. opera divide of some sort. Opera is more like Broadway musicals (also hit hard) than symphonies are.

    , @Authenticjazzman
    "How many impressive country or Jazz artists have been gay? Not too many"

    A few, but as you say "Not too many". One of the current top Jazz pianists is openly gay.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" qualified since 1973, airborne trained U S Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

    , @Dan Hayes
    Daniel H:

    I don't know if he would be considered a great conductor, but Demitri Mettropolis certainly was a gay conductor.
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  60. @Diversity Heretic
    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it. If hormonal levels could be monitored and proper adjustments made, future generations might well be spared the scourge of homosexuality.

    Whose hormones? The baby’s or the mother’s?

    what about the bonding with Dad problem that gets missed in toddlerhood? That one seems more probable to me.

    And it could be that some of these guys just have too many female hormones in their systems. Bad luck genetics.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    I really doubt the "bonding with Dad" thing. This reminds me of the old attitude toward autism, where they attempted to blame the parents (especially the mother) for not bonding or something. This was really sick because these moms were already suffering with their autistic kid and now the doctor was telling them that it was their own fault.

    If not bonding with Dad was the cause of gayness then half the kids in the ghetto would be gay because there's no dad around to bond with, but they ain't.
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  61. Read More
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  62. @The Man From K Street

    What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?
     
    The John Jay Report of 2004 established as an authoritative baseline that, in the "Catholic Priest Child Abuse Crisis," something like 85% of all such incidents were actually homosexual priests grooming confused, postpubescent teenage boys.

    I would expect a similar percentage in this case.

    I think of the heterosexuals, only Horovitz has been accused of contact with a minor (his family’s 16 year old au pair). Even Harvey the Monster didn’t hit on underage girls. You’ll notice of teacher scandals, most of them nowadays involve female teachers. Heterosexual males have learned that contact with underage females (if there is more than a couple of years of age gap) is severely punished criminally – for most men it’s just not worth the risk. Most men nowadays with any brains, no matter how horny they are, regard underage females as kryptonite.

    As far as gays are concerned, the recent scandals almost by definition involve minors. A gay hitting up another gay male adult is, even in the current hysteria, not considered career ending. If Spacey and Levine were only going after adult males no one would have cared.

    The priest abuse scandals by definition involved underage kids – 100% of the victims were underage, whereas in the current scandal that’s not true at all.

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  63. @unpc downunder
    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    The two concerns in relation to adult homosexuals and sexual harassment is whether they have too much access to teenage boys, and whether or not the liberal media has been going easy on them. You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males,…………..

    Do they?

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I’m sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did. Is there any comparable phenomenon to be found among straight men? Not a few outliers, I mean, but an actual subculture of straight men dedicated to racking up the score like that?

    It seems to me that there is good evidence that gays, in some ways, have different mental wiring than normal people altogether.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I’m sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did.
     
    It's more likely that virtually all of them did. It seems to be an inherent part of male homosexuality.
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  64. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @unpc downunder
    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    The two concerns in relation to adult homosexuals and sexual harassment is whether they have too much access to teenage boys, and whether or not the liberal media has been going easy on them. You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

    Yes, but the majority of horny heterosexual males are fine with women over legal age, over 18, and the number who chase jailbait is only a small percentage. An awful lot of gay males only want them if they’re under 16. That’s not normal. It appears that the power/domination imbalance of the situation is what attracts them.

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  65. Related, known pederast Bryan Singer has left the set of his Freddie Mercury (of course) biopic. Big accusation on the way?

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  66. @Mr. Anon

    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left’s equalist ideology is that different things are … the same.
     
    We will know we have achieved true diversity when everything is indistinguishable from everything else.

    Another verse to add to the Ingsoc creed: Diversity is Sameness!

    Many people who celebrate diversity seem to often speak with glee about how everyone in the not too distant future will be brown. Yay diversity!

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  67. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    Another thing to consider is endocrine disruptors like BPA, and possibly other plasticizers. Increased hermaphrodism in frogs and other amphibians has been reported and is possibly associated with these agents, and it wouldn’t seem a crazy hypothesis that humans could also be vulnerable.

    Probably multifactorial, of course. Male homosexuality seems innate, in that you can tell what boys are likely to be gay from a very young age, and many male homosexuals could attract females if they wanted. Female homosexuality seems like a fundamentally different thing driven by lack of mating success, and potentially reversible.

    Of course try writing a grant to see if BPA makes rats gay and see how far that gets you.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    There have been lots of homosexual males throughout history. Or rather, they have been present at least. I am tempted to make the argument that they flourish in civilizational decadence (e.g. ancient Greeks etc.) and the modern era. But then you have the Bacha bazi, and I think one would be hard pressed to say that Afghanistan represents the apex or decline of civilization.

    Anyway, it would seem that the cause is something not confined to new chemicals (though maybe increased by them) as it is present throughout history and in animals as well. My guess remains that there are traits that cause a net gain in reproductive fitness on average in spite of causing homosexuality or lesbianism as a byproduct.

    Ironically, lesbianism would be the byproduct of the DNA for the Macho Man.
    , @Olorin
    The pertinent research question isn't whether BPA "makes the frikkin frogs gay."

    The pertinent research question is the effects on biological systems of man-made molecules at ppt, ppm, or ppb dilutions.

    Also the interactive effects of these molecules.

    For instance it was rather concerning-ly demonstrated in the '90s that nitrates in well water could massively enhance the biological effects of certain pesticide or polymer molecules.

    It was shown that such molecules alone or combined had more or fewer or lesser effects depending on a wide range of conditions (like age of the animal [including human], season of exposure, continuous versus pulse dosage).

    I cannot recall whether that work went in the direction of distinguishing between the molecules' effects on the living systems per se (the nitrates, say, disabling a normal system so the pesticide or polymer molecule could have more activity) or the compounds enhancing each others' activity into a super-reactor.

    As for "gay," it's a term worthless in scientific approaches to the topic. We might be able to estimate what the optimal reproductive functioning of any subpopulation is for that group's ability to sustain its numbers. We might be able to estimate how many outliers it will produce or can tolerate before becoming extinct or whatever. But framing these matters in Alex Jones agitprop should, rightly, be rejected from more serious consideration.

    For every light in the loafers or numale rat "caused by" man-made molecules in the environment (i.e., new/novel selection pressures), there might well be ten chad rats whose sperm are impaired, or qt waifu rats whose ovaries can't function or whose endometrium cannot grow a rich enough blood supply to nourish a fertilized implanted egg or whose molecular pathways cannot ensure proper development of the embryonic notochord, etc.

    Part of the reason we need to be able to ask BadThink Noticer questions about human biodiversity is to improve our ability to do the science it takes to understand all this. Nature is not PC and doesn't care one whit about our tender feelings. While nature indeed coughs up diversity on a regular basis, including gay rats and lesbian cows, she also subjects it to extreme and harsh selective pressures. Too many outliers, and the center will not hold.

    Life on earth isn't a college SJW seminar/struggle session. For starters if it were, it would resemble an amygdala or VTA/nucleus accumbens rather then a cerebral cortex. :)

    https://evogeneao.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/tree_of_life/tree-of-life_2000.jpg

    , @anonymous
    Interesting. As recently as the early 70s homosexuality was considered a psychiatric disorder. As I understand it, homosexuality manifests itself with the onset of puberty, at least in males. Something to do with the endocrine system maybe? Dunno. "The Narrative" won't allow it to be called what it really is--aberrant behavior.
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  68. @Anonymous
    Thank God for Charlie Rose, Garrison Keillor, and Kevin Spacey or you’d think this is all an anti-Semitic witch hunt. I was about to throw in Matt Lauer to the counterexamples list but then read his bio. Romanian Jew.

    Not really. His father was Jewish but his mother was not and he was raised without any religion. For Jewish law purposes he scores a zero because religion is determined matrilineally and for secular purposes I would weight him at 0.5 at best.

    Einstein used to joke about how if relativity was proven right (this was before Hitler when it was still possible to joke about such things) then both the Jews and the Germans would claim him as their own but if it was proven wrong then the Jews would consider him German and the Germans would consider him a Jew.

    Then again there were commenters here who were putting Rose in the Joo column (Rose is a Joo name, right – like, uh, Pete Rose) even though he has not a drop of Jewish blood.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Agreed. You do impress with the details about who has "a drop of jewish blood" and who doesn't. Quite the scientist! Fred Rose isn't Jewish, for example, because Pete Rose. Never mind the name "Rosen"...there are just way too many anti-semites around here right? I wish you people would quit 'noticing' things... it's well known that we are actively hunting for more goyische offenders and hope very soon to have the situation under control.
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  69. @Semper Fidelis
    So far all of the men accused have hit one or more of the following criteria, in order of frequency:

    Liberal, Over 50, Jewish, Black, Gay, Catholic

    Why is that?

    Garrison Keillor and Charlie Rose are Catholics? Since when?

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  70. OT: This is the kind of PR Big Media gives Zionists (yes, I realize I’m calling Drudge “Big Media”):

    Netanyahu at Saban Forum: Iran, Like Nazi Germany, Has ‘Ruthless Commitment to Murdering Jews’

    Well, except for, you know, the Jews who live in Iran, and have lived there forever, and the Iranians have managed not to kill in all that time. (As Steve has pointed out repeatedly)

    I’ll save you the trouble: the piece contains mention of not a single Jew harmed by Iran.

    I don’t think there are even any holocaust deniers (TM) who state that Nazi Germany killed no Jews whatsoever, but that seems to be the implication of the parallel Netanyahu is drawing.

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  71. Then again there were commenters here who were putting Rose in the Joo column (Rose is a Joo name, right – like, uh, Pete Rose) even though he has not a drop of Jewish blood.

    Jews would never tar, say, Whites with a broad brush though. And if they did, it would be at obscure blogs, and not, say, from the commanding heights of Big Media.

    I think I have the world’s smallest violin around here somewhere, Jack. Shall I fetch it and play you a tune?

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  72. @BB753
    In other news, Israel Horovitz is next:
    https://www.dangerous.com/37302/screenwriter-and-playwright-israel-horovitz-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-nine-women/

    Sorry, old news!

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  73. @FKA Max

    You know, as a heterosexual man you should be grateful for and cheer on every openly gay man out there, since it means less mating competition for you and other heterosexual men, which contributes to and translates into a more conflict-free, peaceful and less deadly world for men. Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:

    Fecundity of Paternal and Maternal Non-Parental Female Relatives of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

    Moreover, due to the selective increase in maternal female fecundity, the total female fecundity was significantly higher in homosexual than heterosexual probands, thus compensating for the reduced fecundity of homosexuals. Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.

    – http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051088

    Men are dying for sex: Mating competition explains excess male mortality

    – https://phys.org/news/2010-05-men-dying-sex-competition-excess.html
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2074457

    In that case, men should be highly opposed to lesbians. Butch lesbians do in fact consider men to be their competitors in pursuing females. Aren’t the # of male and female gays roughly balanced so that the effects cancel out?

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    • Replies: @FKA Max
    My stash of lesbian porn proves I'm not homophobic. - https://twitter.com/noltenc

    You are correct, lesbians are more problematic than gay males in this regard.

    Aren’t the # of male and female gays roughly balanced so that the effects cancel out?
     
    Estimates vary:

    2015

    In a nationally representative survey of 2,021 Americans carried out by Indiana University, it was found that 89.8% of men and 92.2% of women identify as heterosexual, 1.9% of men and 3.6% of women are bisexual, 5.8% of men and 1.5% of women consider themselves gay or lesbian, 0.5% of men and 1.3% of women identify asexual, and 0.7% of men and 0.9% of women are other.[49]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States#2010s

    Sexual diversity in the United States: Results from a nationally representative probability sample of adult women and men

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181198
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  74. Not really. His father was Jewish but his mother was not and he was raised without any religion. For Jewish law purposes he scores a zero because religion is determined matrilineally and for secular purposes I would weight him at 0.5 at best.

    Einstein used to joke about how if relativity was proven right (this was before Hitler when it was still possible to joke about such things) then both the Jews and the Germans would claim him as their own but if it was proven wrong then the Jews would consider him German and the Germans would consider him a Jew.

    You score a 1 on the chutzpah meter, Jack. First you define Jewishness disingenuously (there is no “Jewish law” to speak of), then you crack a joke about Einstein, as if he wasn’t an unobservant, irreligious, ethnic Jew.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    You score a 1 on the chutzpah meter, Jack. First you define Jewishness disingenuously (there is no “Jewish law” to speak of), then you crack a joke about Einstein, as if he wasn’t an unobservant, irreligious, ethnic Jew.

    As an outsider looking in, I thought the Talmud is basically Jewish law. And he does have a point there in ethnically a hardcore Jew probably looks at mischlinge the way we look at Obama. Maybe not that bad but a quarter Jew is fairly weak sauce and should not constitute the tribe.
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  75. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    If by infectious agent you mean something like a virus or bacteria, I’d rate that as being very unlikely. If something like that existed then it would have been found by now. Also contagious diseases spread in certain well known patterns which are nothing like the incidence of homosexuality. Some sort of hormonal imbalances in utero at some critical stage of brain formation are much more likely.

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    • Replies: @cthulhu


    If something like that existed then it would have been found by now.

     

    Not necessarily. Think about toxoplasmosis, for example. And we still don't know what causes schizophrenia either. Lots of things may well have an underlying microbe or parasite as a significant factor. Greg Cochran is I think still an advocate of the "gay germ" hypothesis; check out his website.
    , @Big Bill
    In 2005, Dr. Barry Marshall received the Nobel Prize in Physiology for his discovery that gastric and duodenal ulcers were caused by the bacteria helicobacter pylori.
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  76. Preverts are much more likely than normal people to commit crimes (abuse of power, rape, etc.) to gratify their desires simply because they are much less likely to find satisfaction any other way. Normal men and women can expect to find willing partners among the roughly 48% of the population which each, respectively, looks toward. But Jerry-Sandusky types can expect to meet approximately zero willing partners, so they strive to coerce unwilling ones.

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  77. Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Homosexual males are not restrained by a lower sex drive among the sex they are attracted to. Hence bathhouse culture. Homosexuals are also a protected class, shielded by PC. Also, they have spent their lives flouting sexual norms. It’s reasonable to suppose they tend to hit on anything that pings their gaydar sufficiently.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Apparently it's a common fantasy/delusion among gays that they are capable of seducing straight men. They think that they can convert straight men to the dark side with their sexual magnetism. Now probably what is happening when they succeed is that these men ping their finely tuned gaydar - even if they are living as straight men, the gays can sense that they've met a fellow Friend of Dorothy and they move in on him. I've come across this in several autobiographies written by gay men - those of Gore Vidal and Craig Claiborne come to mind.
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  78. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    This is false. In the Catholic priest scandals, around 80% of the victims were boys. This was carefully studied and documented. Now I don’t know what % of Catholic priests are gay, but I doubt it was 80%, so at least among priests, gay priests molested boys at a higher rate than straight priests molested girls. I think that gays are also more apt to go after pre-teens while among hetersexual men this is a very rare perversion.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Richard Sipe, a resigned priest who despises the priest corps, offered an estimate of 20%. Other survey research indicates that about 1/3 are abnormal in some way. That would be consistent with an elevated propensity to molest on the order of 12-to-1. That's roughly consistent with what crime data suggests as well.
    , @AP
    About 30% of Roman Catholic priests are gay. Very few victims are children (pedophilia - sexual attraction to children - is about as rare among priests as among the general population); almost all victims of these gay priests are boys who have entered puberty. Heterosexual priests sometimes have affairs with adult women. It is not common, but much more common than the victimization of teenage boys.
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  79. @Buffalo Joe
    Apparently Levine's instrument was a skin flute.

    Is that your baton in your pocket,or—oh heck,UNZ is too hi class for that.

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  80. @Anonymous
    I can only image what kind of stuff might be going on with some of the Broadway people. So many of today's musicals feature unmasculine male characters singing sappy, unmasculine songs. Many seem to exalt male gayness. I often listen to Sirius XM's Best of Broadway station, but I find it hard to listen to a lot of the music from more recent musicals.

    I honestly think that was one of the main reasons why “Hamilton” is such a monster hit. Get rid of the overt faggotry, and the tourists will come to your show…

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    • Replies: @Bernardista
    I agree. HamilTon has high T. Sexy, power-hungry, high-energy dude-fest that it is, it is also has great rhymes and music (IMHO of course).
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  81. @El Dato
    Meanwhile, Accursed Flag of The Ancient Ones full of Eldritch Energies detected in Italy:

    https://www.rt.com/news/411799-german-neo-nazi-flag-italy-barrack/

    https://youtu.be/rdM6eD_vOJM

    A Seveso-level event. I hope a Cordon Sanitaire is being put in place.

    It’s the Imperial War Flag of the German Empire. So this gallant Florentine officer is honouring the former enemy of Italy in World War I, and, by temporal extension, the suzerain of Florence, the Holy Roman Empire.

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  82. @Jonathan Mason
    Levine, Weinstein and Kevin Spacey all have the French or German word for 'wine' included in their names. Perhaps they should never have been uncorked.

    No doubt Spacey has been “plugged” many times.

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    • Replies: @2Mintzin1
    Rim shot!
    Sorry.
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  83. @Malcolm X-Lax
    The obligatory Big Lebowski clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZqkUqw-xg

    Yeah, but that pervert can roll…

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  84. @Tulip Bulb Millionaire
    It's news to me if James Levine is an actual or borderline pederast, but if true it helps explain something that has always puzzled me: the extravagant praise and veneration he receives. I have never heard any recorded performance he conducted that struck me as more than routinely competent. So I guess we not only have the Jewish Mafia in the classical music world, we also have the Homintern.

    You got that right – the adulation he received was all nonsense. The only reason he stayed on for 40 years at the Met was because he could raise massive funds from elderly widows to fund his lifestyle, certainly not because of his mediocre talent. Getting money into the Met is the most important function for a conductor and it is cutthroat. Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years (now that’s an interesting read). BTW, Levine is (and has always been) a notorious pederast and everyone at the Met knew. Even the NYC police wanted to arrest him in the early 90′s, but the investigation was squashed. He was untouchable like Weinstein until now. The lawyers smell blood money in the water and won’t stop until they start feeding on each other (please notice how there are no high priced lawyers accused of sexual misconduct – yet).

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    • Replies: @prosa123
    "Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years"

    It's back in business.
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  85. @AnotherDad

    It’s yet another hatefact that’s so glaringly obvious in history and culture, and continually verified by events, that it’s hateful to all goodthinkers.
     
    One of the more intellectually ridiculous aspects of the new left's equalist ideology is that different things are ... the same.

    It's not enough to say abolish sodomy as a crime, we must pretend that homosexuals are *exactly like* normal heterosexuals just some "switch" flipped.

    Likewise it was not enough to eliminate Jim Crow style public discrimination against blacks, and even trash the historic Anglo-Saxon right of free association to make private discrimination illegal, we must proclaim that blacks are *exactly like* whites and anyone suggesting genetic differences are responsible for poor black behavior/outcomes must be unpersoned.

    And now--perhaps most laughably of all--it is not enough to outlaw discrimination against women, but we must make them police, firefighters, soldiers and now deperson and fire anyone suggesting that there are basic biological differences in personality between the sexes, despite sexual dimorphism being a fundamental biological principle and perhaps the most obvious social fact that every human on earth figures out.

    ~~
    I'm not even a particuarly "conservative" guy by nature. I'm somewhat skeptical of authority and certainly not by nature a rule follower. But the sheer unadulterated intellectual stupidity of the leftist project and the incredible damage that inevitably flows in the wake of its logically-averse policies is just beyond belief.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    How anyone with even a couple of functioning brain cells and any self-respect sign onto this nonsense is beyond me.

    Lifetime employment. Plus, the benefits are great!

    (The book Thinking Fast and Slow has an explanation. Unfortunately, Steve has thrown it into the outer darkness.)

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  86. @anonymous
    One thing that jumps out at me is how far back the trail goes for all of the outed offenders. A guy like Sandusky didn't just start yesterday but probably had been at it for many years. All along the way people turned a blind eye to what was in front of them. People glossed over Bill Clinton's predatory behavior because they liked his politics. All of them got a pass until they overreached and enough was enough. Large numbers of people have been enablers and downright complicit in all this. Anyway, I'm enjoying the show and waiting for the next name on the list to be made public.

    When monsters roam free, we assume that people in positions of authority ought to be able to catch them if only they did their jobs. But that might be wishful thinking. A pedophile…is someone adept not just at preying on children but at confusing, deceiving, and charming the adults responsible for those children.

    The successful pedophile does not select his targets arbitrarily. He culls them from a larger pool, testing and probing until he finds the most vulnerable…Children with vigilant parents are too risky.

    Malcolm Gladwell, 2012

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/24/in-plain-view

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  87. There is nothing that a conservative website or publication likes more than a story about a gay man with an underage male-it hits all the sweet spots. Even Steve can’t resist. This is in contrast to any type of sexual harassment story concerning straight males towards women or girls. Those stories are always “exaggerated” and don’t interest conservatives in the least.

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    • Replies: @Perspective

    There is nothing that a conservative website or publication likes more than a story about a gay man with an underage male-it hits all the sweet spots.
     
    That may very well be true, though, I would wager that "liberals" revel in stories about violent straight White men abusing helpless POC/tran/homo/other, especially if he is conservative.
    , @Mr. Anon

    This is in contrast to any type of sexual harassment story concerning straight males towards women or girls. Those stories are always “exaggerated” and don’t interest conservatives in the least.
     
    Yeah, that's why Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy got such kid-gloves treatment by conservatives.
    , @a reader


    There is nothing that a conservative website or publication likes more than a story about a gay man with an underage male-it hits all the sweet spots.
     
    The Hollywood crowd concurs.
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  88. @Tulip Bulb Millionaire
    It's news to me if James Levine is an actual or borderline pederast, but if true it helps explain something that has always puzzled me: the extravagant praise and veneration he receives. I have never heard any recorded performance he conducted that struck me as more than routinely competent. So I guess we not only have the Jewish Mafia in the classical music world, we also have the Homintern.

    “So I guess we not only have the Jewish Mafia in the classical music world, we also have the Homintern.”

    Yes, we have both. Once you’re aware of it, the evidence continues to pile up. I just experienced another example less than a week ago — a piano performance on the local classical station that was so poor — shoddy execution, trite interpretation — that I went to the bother of finding out the performer on the station’s website….some Jewish name. Then I checked out the guy’s picture on an image search….flaming gay. Gay mag pieces, pictures with his partner, etc.

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  89. @The Man From K Street

    What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?
     
    The John Jay Report of 2004 established as an authoritative baseline that, in the "Catholic Priest Child Abuse Crisis," something like 85% of all such incidents were actually homosexual priests grooming confused, postpubescent teenage boys.

    I would expect a similar percentage in this case.

    Well, there’s always guys like Jeffrey Epstein, who by all accounts molested only underage girls. But he gets a pass for some reason. Maybe because he was into ‘offshoring’ American jobs.

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  90. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Not really. His father was Jewish but his mother was not and he was raised without any religion. For Jewish law purposes he scores a zero because religion is determined matrilineally and for secular purposes I would weight him at 0.5 at best.

    Einstein used to joke about how if relativity was proven right (this was before Hitler when it was still possible to joke about such things) then both the Jews and the Germans would claim him as their own but if it was proven wrong then the Jews would consider him German and the Germans would consider him a Jew.

    Then again there were commenters here who were putting Rose in the Joo column (Rose is a Joo name, right - like, uh, Pete Rose) even though he has not a drop of Jewish blood.

    Agreed. You do impress with the details about who has “a drop of jewish blood” and who doesn’t. Quite the scientist! Fred Rose isn’t Jewish, for example, because Pete Rose. Never mind the name “Rosen”…there are just way too many anti-semites around here right? I wish you people would quit ‘noticing’ things… it’s well known that we are actively hunting for more goyische offenders and hope very soon to have the situation under control.

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  91. @Anonymous
    Thank God for Charlie Rose, Garrison Keillor, and Kevin Spacey or you’d think this is all an anti-Semitic witch hunt. I was about to throw in Matt Lauer to the counterexamples list but then read his bio. Romanian Jew.

    Before he went chrome-dome, I think you could tell that Lauer was only half-jewish.

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  92. @Krastos the Gluemaker
    A huge proportion, if not close to all, of gay men in human history were involved with underage persons; if anything it's a very small number of late 20th-21st century moderns that are the exceptions.

    This has to be understood when looking at historical records, sources, and so on, with all the talk of governments and religious institutions and everything persecuting homosexuals; their behavior would also not be acceptable to modern moral crusaders. We're talking all the way to Ancient Rome etc here. Just maybe the occasional historical figure, someone like Kolmogorov was otherwise on the level.

    It's one of the things that might eventually be properly explained with an understanding of the genetics of homosexuality, assuming there aren't truly multiple types of male homosexuality that are poorly operationalized and measured. Regardless other crazy hypotheses are wrong, ignoring all completely nonscientific explanations (Satanism etc), homosexuality is caused by rare genetic mutations, and while the latter possibility is underexplored as a cause of confounding in noisy research datasets, there's certainly nothing surprising or even necessary having an influence in modern day culture or politics per se.

    A huge proportion, if not close to all, of gay men in human history were involved with underage persons

    The detailed, comprehensive knowledge of many contributors here never ceases to amaze me.

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    • LOL: Vinteuil
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  93. @Malcolm X-Lax
    The obligatory Big Lebowski clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZqkUqw-xg

    American Conversation in a Nutshell

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  94. @Diversity Heretic
    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it. If hormonal levels could be monitored and proper adjustments made, future generations might well be spared the scourge of homosexuality.

    There’s support for your theory in recent research into epigenetics, the on/off switching of heritable traits by hormones in the prenatal and perinatal environments. The focus of epigenetic studies related to human development has been on stress-related hormones flipping the switch on Cluster B personality traits – narcissistic, borderline, psychopathic, histrionic, etc. personalities. There is also a non-trivial correlation between those traits and various paraphilias, – fetishes, sado-masochism, pedophilia, homosexuality, etc. A mother exhibiting Cluster B traits is less stress-tolerant than others and more likely to produce Cluster B offspring, through her own personality influence and, potentially, stress-related prenatal and perinatal hormone imbalance. Prenatal and perinatal hormone therapy has potential to save a whole lot of pain down the road.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    Thank you for your informative reply! I've always been skeptical of a genetic explanation because it seems to me to be strongly selected against, especially in the ancestral environment. Hormonal influences might account for the fact that some homosexuals do truly seem to be born that way. I don't rule out environmental influences, especially for people with some predisposition to homosexuality. From what I've read, homosexuals live fairly miserable lives, even if "successful;" it would make humanity better if the condition could be cured.
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  95. @Anon
    Levine's version of the New World Symphony is the best by far.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4PfFk__vzc

    Agree – my favorite version

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  96. @BenKenobi
    Joe, it's a little early on Sunday to be workin' blue!

    Ben, maybe I was just getting home. Not really, sorry.

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  97. @AnotherDad

    What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?
     
    All?

    The accuser against George Takei was in his 20s when the disputed event occurred. So there is that.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Has there been a rash of other accusers against Takei, or is that a stand-alone one?
    , @kihowi
    Takei is a bottom and Japanese. He's not taking the initiative in anything.
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  98. Had Harvey Milk lived, he might well have been called out for his predeliction for “troubled” adolescent boys. It was something covered up during his campaign for supervisor and after he was killed the issue became a no-go zone. His death turned out to be a PR gift for gays in various way including making any discussion of the seamy side of his character off-limits.

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  99. The director Bryan Singer, who seems to have a poor understanding of basic morality, has stopped work on the Freddie Mercury biopic due to ‘illness’.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42193912

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bryan-singer-sex-abuse-suit-699673

    Readers will be surprised to learn that Singer is Jewish, though I suspect he is not familiar with Leviticus.

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  100. This article claims 60% of classical musicians report that they had been sexually harassed, and the number rises to 70% among the self-employed.

    https://slippedisc.com/2017/12/sexual-harassment-is-rife-among-uk-classical-musicians/

    And “In Sweden, a much smaller country, almost 700 opera singers declared they had been harassed, practically the entire profession.”

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    • Replies: @Pericles

    And “In Sweden, a much smaller country, almost 700 opera singers declared they had been harassed, practically the entire profession.”

     

    Sweden has been going absolutely nuts with clever hashtags for each profession to sing out about various forms of abuse. When it comes to this sort of thing, Sweden will not be put in the corner!

    The best individual ones have been journalists, but I think it's clever feminists driving the broader reports in a sort of class action twitter indictment, combined with some editorial direction by strategic figures in the media. ("fifty gazillion female workers in this sector report abuse under hashtag #sectorvexors!")

    No mention of migrant abuse even though they do almost all the actual raping.

    Finally, I'm surprised there are 700 opera singers in the country. They might outnumber the opera goers.
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  101. @Jack D
    In that case, men should be highly opposed to lesbians. Butch lesbians do in fact consider men to be their competitors in pursuing females. Aren't the # of male and female gays roughly balanced so that the effects cancel out?

    My stash of lesbian porn proves I’m not homophobic.https://twitter.com/noltenc

    You are correct, lesbians are more problematic than gay males in this regard.

    Aren’t the # of male and female gays roughly balanced so that the effects cancel out?

    Estimates vary:

    2015

    In a nationally representative survey of 2,021 Americans carried out by Indiana University, it was found that 89.8% of men and 92.2% of women identify as heterosexual, 1.9% of men and 3.6% of women are bisexual, 5.8% of men and 1.5% of women consider themselves gay or lesbian, 0.5% of men and 1.3% of women identify asexual, and 0.7% of men and 0.9% of women are other.[49]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States#2010s

    Sexual diversity in the United States: Results from a nationally representative probability sample of adult women and men

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181198

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  102. @Jack D
    If by infectious agent you mean something like a virus or bacteria, I'd rate that as being very unlikely. If something like that existed then it would have been found by now. Also contagious diseases spread in certain well known patterns which are nothing like the incidence of homosexuality. Some sort of hormonal imbalances in utero at some critical stage of brain formation are much more likely.

    If something like that existed then it would have been found by now.

    Not necessarily. Think about toxoplasmosis, for example. And we still don’t know what causes schizophrenia either. Lots of things may well have an underlying microbe or parasite as a significant factor. Greg Cochran is I think still an advocate of the “gay germ” hypothesis; check out his website.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    One thing that strikes me about the 'gay germ theory,' is that if any virus or bacteria wanted to replicate itself by manipulating human behavior or genes, it would be far more successful at it if it encouraged heterosexual contact instead of homosexual contact. There are a lot of heterosexuals out there to take advantage of, for one thing, and it would spread more widely.

    I'd have to guess that if there's any disease involved in this, it would a promiscuity-causing disease that wasn't gender specific or gender-targeting. It would simply amp up your natural sexual impulse and cause you to target a lot of victims, and those victims, once exposed to the disease, would themselves become promiscuous. Children who have been sexually abused are more likely to grow up and become promiscuous, so this theory would make sense.

    However, it's hard to tell a promiscuity disease from simple, old-fashioned competitive human genes trying to outbreed others in a Darwinian attempt to get ahead.
    , @Harold
    Despite quite a few people on the right thinking it explains cat ladies, the evidence for T. gondii affecting human behaviour is weak.

    Toxoplasma gondii (T. gondii) is a protozoan parasite present in around a third of the human population. Infected individuals are commonly asymptomatic, though recent reports have suggested that infection might influence aspects of the host’s behavior. In particular, Toxoplasma infection has been linked to schizophrenia, suicide attempt, differences in aspects of personality and poorer neurocognitive performance. However, these studies are often conducted in clinical samples or convenience samples.

    Methods/Results

    In a population-representative birth-cohort of individuals tested for presence of antibodies to T. gondii (N = 837) we investigated the association between infection and four facets of human behavior: neuropsychiatric disorder (schizophrenia and major depression), poor impulse control (suicidal behavior and criminality), personality, and neurocognitive performance. Suicide attempt was marginally more frequent among individuals with T. gondii seropositivity (p = .06). Seropositive individuals also performed worse on one out of 14 measures of neuropsychological function.

    Conclusion

    On the whole, there was little evidence that T. gondii was related to increased risk of psychiatric disorder, poor impulse control, personality aberrations or neurocognitive impairment.
     
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0148435
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  103. @Semper Fidelis
    So far all of the men accused have hit one or more of the following criteria, in order of frequency:

    Liberal, Over 50, Jewish, Black, Gay, Catholic

    Why is that?

    Who was catholic? Seems likevtheres more protestants than catholics

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  104. @BB753
    In other news, Israel Horovitz is next:
    https://www.dangerous.com/37302/screenwriter-and-playwright-israel-horovitz-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-nine-women/

    Yeah,his son,Adam,the Beastie Boy,backed up the women and not his father. There is some bad blood between the two. It seems young Adam’s girlfriend was raped by his dad. When she told him,you can imagine—Wait!! WHAT?????? Dear God in heaven! We’ve had some awkward holiday dinners,but these guys…

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    • LOL: TheBoom
    • Replies: @BB753
    At least, Horovitz's family get to skip Christmas!
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  105. Cochran’s germ theory seems strong. Isolated tribes in various places across the globe have been discovered with zero history of homosexuality.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    Cochran’s germ theory seems strong. Isolated tribes in various places across the globe have been discovered with zero history of homosexuality.
     
    They have zero history of electricity too, so is that spread by germs/viruses too?
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  106. Semi related, everyone’s favorite Republican Lindsey Macho Man Grahamnesty is talking impeachment of Trump over his Flynn tweets

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  107. @1661er
    The accuser against George Takei was in his 20s when the disputed event occurred. So there is that.

    Has there been a rash of other accusers against Takei, or is that a stand-alone one?

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    • Replies: @Broad50
    Also Jann Wenner and some photographer just the other day. The victims were mid/late 20s.
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  108. James Levine should no longer be conducting. He is a 75 year old obese quadriplegic who conducts from a wheel chair.

    Opera has both an audience problem and a weight problem. The sopranos are disgustingly fat, and the audiences are ancient. If the Met wants to return to its glory days of 20th Century it needs to combine more healthy looking performers with younger conductors. Sideline the fossils.

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    • Replies: @CJ
    James Levine, Charlie Rose, Garrison Keillor - all 75 years old. Pre-boomers, none of them with coruscating talent IMO.
    , @Autochthon
    Is he perhaps paraplegic? If he is truly quadriplegic, does he blow into a straw to make a mechanised baton move? Far out!

    (And it explains his penchant and honed skills for blowing ... other things....)

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  109. @anonymous
    One thing that jumps out at me is how far back the trail goes for all of the outed offenders. A guy like Sandusky didn't just start yesterday but probably had been at it for many years. All along the way people turned a blind eye to what was in front of them. People glossed over Bill Clinton's predatory behavior because they liked his politics. All of them got a pass until they overreached and enough was enough. Large numbers of people have been enablers and downright complicit in all this. Anyway, I'm enjoying the show and waiting for the next name on the list to be made public.

    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch? I suspect somehow there is a connection between Hillary losing the election and this left-wing pervert Gotterdammerung.

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    Women always copy each other. I'm guessing most of the accusations are true. But for a woman to do anything, including report an instance of harassment, she has to see other women do it first. Why did the Weinstein scandal unleash this flood of accusations? Why didn't the Cosby scandal do it? The O'Reilly scandal, the hundreds of scandals before that?

    Simple. Mnay of the women harassed by Weinstein were current stars, the kind that are featured on TMZ, in the tabloids, on celeb gossip blogs. That gets women's attention. Cosby's victims were active in an earlier era and were less prominent even then. All of the other scandals I can think of featured fewer and less famous women.

    The bigger, the more numerous the stars, the more female attention you'll get. And the more female attention, the bigger the "me too" effect.

    Now why did the Weinstein scandal happen in the first place? I'm guessing he cheated someone more powerful than himself in business and was hit back for that through the NYT.

    , @Anonymous

    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch?
     
    Could it in some way be related to Trump's pledge to drain the swamp?
    , @CJ
    I think there is a connection with Trump’s election too - although obviously James Levine is not a power player in Democratic politics. I also think that there is a link to the collapsing economics of the legacy media, as laid out by Lee Smith in a Weekly Standard article describing how Harvey Weinstein’s financial downfall preceded his public exposure.
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  110. @Aaronnyc
    There is nothing that a conservative website or publication likes more than a story about a gay man with an underage male-it hits all the sweet spots. Even Steve can't resist. This is in contrast to any type of sexual harassment story concerning straight males towards women or girls. Those stories are always "exaggerated" and don't interest conservatives in the least.

    There is nothing that a conservative website or publication likes more than a story about a gay man with an underage male-it hits all the sweet spots.

    That may very well be true, though, I would wager that “liberals” revel in stories about violent straight White men abusing helpless POC/tran/homo/other, especially if he is conservative.

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  111. @Daniel H
    I have always seen Classical music conducting and creating as a macho business. The great conductors and composers being commanding, intimidating martinets. I guess a few gays filter in. But have any of the truly greats been gay? Don't mention Levin or Bernstein. A lot of their success may have been due to skillful networking. Anybody have any ideas on this? For example, how many rock gods are gay? How many impressive country or jazz artists have been gay? Not too many.

    AIDS death rates in the 1980s provided a lot of hard evidence of rates of homosexuality by profession. For example, ballet/modern dance got hit hard, as did figure skating. Professional golf, not so much. I don’t recall much about conductors one way or another.

    It could be that there is a symphony vs. opera divide of some sort. Opera is more like Broadway musicals (also hit hard) than symphonies are.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    HIV deaths in the 80s and 90s may very well be why we're having such an explosion of gay sex abuse cases coming out now. A previous generation of abusers was killed off by HIV before they could be taken to court or exposed to the public.
    , @Anonymous
    Musicians that play the classical instruments(piano, violin, cello, etc) have a tendency to be gay. This is especially true when the musicians play that most august of all musical styles, classical European art music. There is that old joke about how the only straight pianists are bad pianists. The sophistication and beauty of classical musical appeals to gays, and so does the prospect of being adulated and adored by crowds of the finest people. While, for instance, rock, especially hard rock, is all about expressing one's most ferocious masculine instincts, classical music is all about expressing all the emotions, thoughts, hopes , tragedy and inner conflicts of the human soul and condition. It's all about subjectivity, ultimately, and that is innately feminine. Paradoxically, the great composers like Beethoven, Mozart and Brahms were men with strong domineering masculine personalities. But professionally soloists playing the classical instruments tend to be gay in huge numbers. There are actually a lot of pianists, cellists and violinists that are openly gay. But maybe there aren't many AIDS cases because maybe they tend to be less promiscuous than typical gays. Or maybe there have been more cases, but it has been sweapt under the rug.
    , @Anonymous
    Off the top of my head I can think of two gay symphony conductors: Michael Tilson Thomas and Leonard Bernstein.
    Gays are overrepresented in probably every music genre except country, bluegrass, and hip-hop (but only if raping men in prison doesn’t count as being gay).
    , @Pat Boyle
    The two conductors I referred to in my original post - Levine and Bernstein - were both gay and both Jews. Being Ashkenazi Jews they were both smart. So there is a nexus of connections here.

    About two and half to three percent of all men are gay - if the statistics can be believed. The popularity of classical music is declining but is still probably well above three percent. It is well established that more intelligent people prefer classical music but the so called "Mozart Effect" eg. Babies become smarter when the hear Mozart in the crib - is a silly myth.

    I have my own theory for all this based on my own life experiences. I think smart people often listen to classical musical genres because they tend to be self directed whereas less smart people merely follow current trends. I stopped listening to pop music when I was twenty or twenty one. That's why I know nothing of pop music after the Beatles.

    I decided that if I was to live only once I should try to surround myself with the best things available. It was clear that pop music hits were created by repetition on the radio. I didn't want an important part of my life to be determined by some disk jockey who received payola. Everything I read told me that there was a whole rich world of music that never got on the Top 40 but had been important for centuries. I decided to learn Bach and Mozart. The real Mozart Effect is that if you listen to Mozart's instrumental and vocal music it becomes hard to listen to Rap, Rock and Roll or Country and Western.
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  112. Homosexuals worldwide do seem to have a preference for sex with boys that exceeds heterosexual men’s preference for underage girls. I always assumed that was because boys are closer to looking like girls when they are younger and homosexual relationships are built more around pure sex than heterosexual ones.

    Heterosexuals from white countries, who are into underage girls, seem to travel to find their victims whether Epstein’s pedo island or developing countries. White cultures, for all the talk of the patriarchy, place a premium on protecting females, especially girls, and think males can fend for themselves. In many non white cultures males are more valued. I’m white cultures It is the girls.

    You see this in many areas such as how white parents are rather indifferent to schools being hotbeds of anti male ideology, acceptance of boys being bullied, lack of concern about males being raped (or domestic abuse of men), and even mundane things like how on social media parents seem more likely to post memes about how wonderful their daughters are than ones about their sons.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Maybe white men have noticed that when white women cross paths with brown or black men, they're more likely to be killed by the browns and blacks.
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  113. @Anon
    Levine's version of the New World Symphony is the best by far.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4PfFk__vzc

    “Levine’s version of the New World Symphony is the best by far.”

    Wha-huh?

    It’s workmanlike, I guess – but it’s up against some pretty stiff competition: Reiner (’57), Walter, Szell & Silvestri (’59), Stokowski (’73), and above all, Václav Talich (’54).

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    • Replies: @Anon
    They're all excellent, but the key moment of the symphony is around the middle of second movement, and all the others miss what Levine got.

    Others got the seas, mountains, rivers, and trees but only Levine got the flower.

    https://youtu.be/W4PfFk__vzc?t=5m4s
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  114. @Dr. X
    OT:

    How do ya get deported twenty times? I though re-entry after one deportation was a felony. Well, the U.S. taxpayers get to pay for him for 35 years now before he gets deported again...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5138223/Repeat-Mexican-deportee-sentenced-assault-US.html

    How do ya get deported twenty times? I though re-entry after one deportation was a felony. Well, the U.S. taxpayers get to pay for him for 35 years now before he gets deported again…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5138223/Repeat-Mexican-deportee-sentenced-assault-US.html

    It is a felony worth 2 years in prison. If this were widely prosecuted the Feds would have to build 20 new prisons to house them. I am not opposed to building them along the lines of Sheriff Joe’s outdoors tent city jails. Show you are serious and the illegal aliens will not come.
    Also the crime you mention is rarely prosecuted because it’s a low priority for lazy ass US Attorney offices.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1326

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  115. Thanks to all for the comments. I’ll assume James Levine was in a position to hire and advance musicians, and likewise, to decline to hire and advance musicians. That raises a question I’ve sometimes asked myself regarding the hiring, retention, granting of tenure, and advancement of grad assistants and junior faculty. How many of them are “sexed in” to their positions? My “evidence” from years of observation is sketchy, but not totally implausible.

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    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    I’ve been in academia, at various institutions, for many years. Occasionally there has been some accusation of sexual harrassment of an undergraduate student by a professor, and occassionally an affair between a professor and a grad student (a bit questionable because of the power differential, but not necessarily a problem), but I have yet to come across a case of a senior faculty member taking sexual advantage of a junior faculty member. However, maybe I just work in an extraordinarily boring field...
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  116. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @cthulhu


    If something like that existed then it would have been found by now.

     

    Not necessarily. Think about toxoplasmosis, for example. And we still don't know what causes schizophrenia either. Lots of things may well have an underlying microbe or parasite as a significant factor. Greg Cochran is I think still an advocate of the "gay germ" hypothesis; check out his website.

    One thing that strikes me about the ‘gay germ theory,’ is that if any virus or bacteria wanted to replicate itself by manipulating human behavior or genes, it would be far more successful at it if it encouraged heterosexual contact instead of homosexual contact. There are a lot of heterosexuals out there to take advantage of, for one thing, and it would spread more widely.

    I’d have to guess that if there’s any disease involved in this, it would a promiscuity-causing disease that wasn’t gender specific or gender-targeting. It would simply amp up your natural sexual impulse and cause you to target a lot of victims, and those victims, once exposed to the disease, would themselves become promiscuous. Children who have been sexually abused are more likely to grow up and become promiscuous, so this theory would make sense.

    However, it’s hard to tell a promiscuity disease from simple, old-fashioned competitive human genes trying to outbreed others in a Darwinian attempt to get ahead.

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    • Replies: @Glaivester
    I am under the impression that the "gay germ" theory is not that male homosexuality is caused by having an illness, but by having HAD an illness. That is, it's the aftereffect of an infection that the body has already dealt with. So the behavioral effect would have no real selective value; it would just be damage caused by the infection.

    It's like people who are rendered sterile by mumps or paralyzed by polio - the effects outlast the disease itself.
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  117. @Steve Sailer
    AIDS death rates in the 1980s provided a lot of hard evidence of rates of homosexuality by profession. For example, ballet/modern dance got hit hard, as did figure skating. Professional golf, not so much. I don't recall much about conductors one way or another.

    It could be that there is a symphony vs. opera divide of some sort. Opera is more like Broadway musicals (also hit hard) than symphonies are.

    HIV deaths in the 80s and 90s may very well be why we’re having such an explosion of gay sex abuse cases coming out now. A previous generation of abusers was killed off by HIV before they could be taken to court or exposed to the public.

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  118. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    Since you speak of an “infectious agent,” I take it you buy into something like Gregory Cochran’s “gay germ” theory?

    But, in that case, what’s with the offensive language? Why gratuitously insult people who are just victims of an illness?

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Q is one of the officially recognized letters of superiority. How spicy to also make it forbidden for breeders to use!
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  119. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    Imagine a world without queers…

    I’d settle for a world where I didn’t have to hear about them every day.

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  120. @1661er
    The accuser against George Takei was in his 20s when the disputed event occurred. So there is that.

    Takei is a bottom and Japanese. He’s not taking the initiative in anything.

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  121. @SimpleSong
    Another thing to consider is endocrine disruptors like BPA, and possibly other plasticizers. Increased hermaphrodism in frogs and other amphibians has been reported and is possibly associated with these agents, and it wouldn't seem a crazy hypothesis that humans could also be vulnerable.

    Probably multifactorial, of course. Male homosexuality seems innate, in that you can tell what boys are likely to be gay from a very young age, and many male homosexuals could attract females if they wanted. Female homosexuality seems like a fundamentally different thing driven by lack of mating success, and potentially reversible.

    Of course try writing a grant to see if BPA makes rats gay and see how far that gets you.

    There have been lots of homosexual males throughout history. Or rather, they have been present at least. I am tempted to make the argument that they flourish in civilizational decadence (e.g. ancient Greeks etc.) and the modern era. But then you have the Bacha bazi, and I think one would be hard pressed to say that Afghanistan represents the apex or decline of civilization.

    Anyway, it would seem that the cause is something not confined to new chemicals (though maybe increased by them) as it is present throughout history and in animals as well. My guess remains that there are traits that cause a net gain in reproductive fitness on average in spite of causing homosexuality or lesbianism as a byproduct.

    Ironically, lesbianism would be the byproduct of the DNA for the Macho Man.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    I was thinking about how the overall reproductive fitness being even or greater as a model for those homosexuality or lesbian genes theory might predict outcomes.

    In societies where there is less egalitarianism, the most desireable women would have more children. The sons of which would have a higher proportion of gays. Maybe this applies in Afghanistan as it does in civilizations that have finished wrecking havoc with external confrontation and it's every man for himself.

    Societies with more lesbians would exist where the macho breadwinner types would have more kids, but not necessarily select the prettiest wife. Instead, they would select for practicality and availability. Or maybe in the areas where it is females who select the men to breed with, and pick the macho guys, while the macho guys sleep with anything that moves. If this is the case, there would be more black lesbians.

    I am not certain about these predictions but it's a starting point. You could have societies maybe that select for the hyper-feminine, hyper-masculine, both, or none. Maybe. And it would have outcomes in prevalances of homos and lesbians.
    , @SimpleSong
    True, there's definitely a lot of historical evidence of homosexuality, particularly male. The transgender stuff seems to have less historical precedent, though. Lots of gay love in the Iliad, but at no point did Agamemnon announce he was transitioning. I do wonder about later in life effects of performance enhancing drugs...
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  122. I went searching for posts on Google regarding James Levine’s pedophilia, and posts popped over going back a good decade. These accusations aren’t new.

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  123. Are you writing about Horovitz, the pianist ? I think it’s reasonable established that he was gay.

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  124. @Anonymous
    Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn't make it true.)

    As to not having to think and hear about gays, just get rid of liberals. That way, you also don't have to hear about oppressed fat blue-haired black jewish rape survivor girls of color.

    >>Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn’t make it true.)

    I don’t understand how proposing a gay germ theory can be “crafted out of personal hatred”. Cochran simply muses on a perplexing matter that has caused and still causes misery to scores of millions of people, not just those afflicted with homosexuality, but their families too.

    A germ theory makes some sense, even to one as ignorant in biology as myself. Cochran’s theory is supported by the fact that male homosexuality is more prevalent in those born in urban and suburban areas than rural areas (the statistics control for the fact that many gays move to urban/suburban areas to escape the isolation gays sense in rural life.) Furthermore, evidence has demonstrated that in just recently contacted human groups (Amazon Indian tribes) male homosexuality was completely unknown. Contact with the outside world, and the possible occurrence of homosexuality in these groups may reinforce his theory.

    Many gays seem to be happy with their disposition, but many are not. I have known some. If there were a reliable, certain remedy to eliminate homosexuality, and turn a homosexual towards heterosexuality, millions of gays would take up this remedy.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    > I don’t understand how proposing a gay germ theory can be “crafted out of personal hatred”.

    At some point he (sensibly) chose to hide the full ugliness of his thinking. His original gay germ paper remains unpublished. As far as I can tell, he never made it available. He doesn't want the world to see it.

    That's because the original theory is about parasitic manipulation. It implies that gay men are parasitically manipulated to actively seek out very young boys in order to infect them. Cochran's original conception of germ-caused male homosexuality really is a story of germ-caused homoerotic pedophilia. Actual pedophilia, of the ugly "very young child" kind.

    , @Anonymous
    > I don’t understand how proposing a gay germ theory can be “crafted out of personal hatred”

    I tried to explain, but Steve didn't care for it. I'll respect the decision.
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  125. @Bubba
    You got that right - the adulation he received was all nonsense. The only reason he stayed on for 40 years at the Met was because he could raise massive funds from elderly widows to fund his lifestyle, certainly not because of his mediocre talent. Getting money into the Met is the most important function for a conductor and it is cutthroat. Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera - had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years (now that's an interesting read). BTW, Levine is (and has always been) a notorious pederast and everyone at the Met knew. Even the NYC police wanted to arrest him in the early 90's, but the investigation was squashed. He was untouchable like Weinstein until now. The lawyers smell blood money in the water and won't stop until they start feeding on each other (please notice how there are no high priced lawyers accused of sexual misconduct - yet).

    “Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years”

    It’s back in business.

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    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >>“Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years”

    The contracts for the trade unions are absolutely ridiculous, same as at Carnegie Hall. Stage hands earn $200-$300 thousand dollars, and even more. When living in New York, I would attend a few concerts at Carnegie and the Met per year. Somehow they got my phone number and their fund raisers would harangue me for donations. I must have received 5 calls per year from them. One time I explained patiently that I only earned about $25K per year, and I was content to pay whatever admission they charged for an event, but no way would I donate to their institution. I suggested that if they needed funding the first thing they should do is take on the trade unions. The calls stopped.
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  126. @Svigor

    Not really. His father was Jewish but his mother was not and he was raised without any religion. For Jewish law purposes he scores a zero because religion is determined matrilineally and for secular purposes I would weight him at 0.5 at best.

    Einstein used to joke about how if relativity was proven right (this was before Hitler when it was still possible to joke about such things) then both the Jews and the Germans would claim him as their own but if it was proven wrong then the Jews would consider him German and the Germans would consider him a Jew.
     
    You score a 1 on the chutzpah meter, Jack. First you define Jewishness disingenuously (there is no "Jewish law" to speak of), then you crack a joke about Einstein, as if he wasn't an unobservant, irreligious, ethnic Jew.

    You score a 1 on the chutzpah meter, Jack. First you define Jewishness disingenuously (there is no “Jewish law” to speak of), then you crack a joke about Einstein, as if he wasn’t an unobservant, irreligious, ethnic Jew.

    As an outsider looking in, I thought the Talmud is basically Jewish law. And he does have a point there in ethnically a hardcore Jew probably looks at mischlinge the way we look at Obama. Maybe not that bad but a quarter Jew is fairly weak sauce and should not constitute the tribe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Of course there is a body of Jewish law - the Jewish equivalent of canon law for Catholics. Now non-Orthodox Jews by definition don't adhere to much of it, but it's still there and is just as clearly defined and well understood as English common law. It's been around at least since the time of the Old Testament. Denying that Jewish law even exists is insane or ignorant or something - like denying that gravity exists.

    That Lauer is not Jewish under Jewish law has nothing to do with weak sauce. It was just based upon a question of proof. In the days before DNA testing (in other words for the last 5,000 years until yesterday) we could be pretty sure of who a kid's mother is but not so sure about who's your daddy (see the speculation about Prince Harry) so Jewish law said we will consider that a kid bears the religion of the mother as a simple and easy to enforce rule. Just like in the West (until yesterday) kids carried their father's surnames - just a simple easy to follow rule so you wouldn't have to think about it every time a kid was born.
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  127. Just to put this in perspective: sexual abuse happens by
    far much more frequently in families than on the outside. Roughly,
    in order, from the highest to the lowest rate:

    1. Live-in boyfriend and her daughters
    2. Stepfather and her daughters
    3. Half- and step-siblings
    4. Babysitters and children
    5. Uncles and nieces, etc
    6. Brothers and sisters
    7. Fathers and daughters
    8. Mothers and sons

    Any woman with young daughters who allows her boyfriend
    to move in is really asking for it. Because of high divorce
    rates there is no question that there is more sex abuse today
    than 50 years ago.

    Much lower in frequency is the abuse by unrelated adults
    who come in contact with children. The rates of abuse appear
    to be about the same in Catholic parishes, Protestant congregations,
    Jewish schools and synagogues, high school and college coaches, etc.

    The simplest solution to sex abuse problem would be to ban families.
    But seriously, if the show business is incapable of policing itself,
    then the powers that be will get involved and reimpose some
    form of the Hays Code. Hollywood can still be useful (although
    these days it seems dedicated primarily to polluting the minds
    of 15-year-olds) if placed under moral scrutiny. I agree with Steve
    that the highest priority is to keep the Hollywood and NYC types from
    lusting after kids by restricting the participation of children in
    show business in a reasonable way

    Read More
    • Replies: @kihowi
    In other words:

    1. men
    2. in a position of dominance
    3. but not related closely enough to care about welfare of their victims

    Didn't we already know this?

    , @Lurker
    So the type of family is the key thing.
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  128. @Father O'Hara
    No doubt Spacey has been "plugged" many times.

    Rim shot!
    Sorry.

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  129. @Anon
    One thing that strikes me about the 'gay germ theory,' is that if any virus or bacteria wanted to replicate itself by manipulating human behavior or genes, it would be far more successful at it if it encouraged heterosexual contact instead of homosexual contact. There are a lot of heterosexuals out there to take advantage of, for one thing, and it would spread more widely.

    I'd have to guess that if there's any disease involved in this, it would a promiscuity-causing disease that wasn't gender specific or gender-targeting. It would simply amp up your natural sexual impulse and cause you to target a lot of victims, and those victims, once exposed to the disease, would themselves become promiscuous. Children who have been sexually abused are more likely to grow up and become promiscuous, so this theory would make sense.

    However, it's hard to tell a promiscuity disease from simple, old-fashioned competitive human genes trying to outbreed others in a Darwinian attempt to get ahead.

    I am under the impression that the “gay germ” theory is not that male homosexuality is caused by having an illness, but by having HAD an illness. That is, it’s the aftereffect of an infection that the body has already dealt with. So the behavioral effect would have no real selective value; it would just be damage caused by the infection.

    It’s like people who are rendered sterile by mumps or paralyzed by polio – the effects outlast the disease itself.

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  130. Read More
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  131. @AnotherDad
    I welcome the day when we--probably Chinese researchers--figure out the infectious agent and we can detect it, and vaccinate against it and be free of this scourge.

    Imagine a world without queers ... when people can live their lives and not have to think about or hear about queers.

    Greg Cochrane might be right–it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today’s America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Right in this thread someone mentioned a theory - a gene that makes you want to have a lot of sex with men. When the female offspring get the gene they have more offspring than average and when the male offspring get it they are gay. I'm not saying that this theory is right, but it would increase reproductive fitness of the family - the increased # of descendants in the female line would at least even out the lack of reproduction on the male side (note that in the past, most men who were attracted to men or boys still were expected to get married and have children).
    , @dfordoom

    But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today’s America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.
     
    Hardly anyone accepts Cochran's germ theory. It has always suited homosexuals to claim that they are the innocent victims of biology. They were just born this way!

    But if it isn't genetic or a disease than it's cultural. It's a learned behaviour. Which makes the homosexual agenda of glamourising and promoting homosexuality very very disturbing to say the least. And a learned behaviour seems much more likely than anything physiological.
    , @Pericles

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

     

    As you're well aware, we are well beyond that point.
    , @anon
    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    That's always the lie, isn't it? "Just give blacks equal treatment and they'll stop rioting and bitching so much!" "Just let these Hispanics have amnesty and they promise they'll quit making so many demands!" "Just let women have jobs in corporate America, and then feminism will wither and die!"

    And the subject of Islamic demands in Europe is too depressing even to mention.

    Can you name me a group of people that actually stopped being noisy once we gave them what they claimed they wanted?

    I would also point out that, empirically, gays used to be a lot less noisy back when they were fairly certain that they wouldn't be tolerated or accepted.

    , @Art Deco
    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    That's not how it works. In any venue. Ever. Homosexuals who might be satisfied with 'tolerance' and 'acceptance' weren't noisy to begin with.
    , @AnotherDad

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.
     
    Seriously? C'mon. iSteve is all about "observing" reality. This is ridiculous. And frankly I get tired of this homosexuals just want to be tolerated bullshit.

    Homosexuals aren't the least bit into "tolerance". Given that, they want--they *demand*--acceptance and celebration.

    Look at this Christian baker case the Supreme Court has picked up. The guy doesn't want to make them a wedding cake cause he's a bible believing Christian. Do they go over to the next baker--of whom there is no shortage in Denver. Nope, they whine and throw a hissy.

    There are a bunch of cases like this--Christian bakers, photographers, caterers, venue providers, etc. The fags try and find them setup some phony service ask, get rejected ... and sue and sick the cops on them. It's the fag einsatzgruppen, hunting down and shooting any dissenters.

    Tolerance? Live and let live? You've got to be kidding.
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  132. @Anonym
    There have been lots of homosexual males throughout history. Or rather, they have been present at least. I am tempted to make the argument that they flourish in civilizational decadence (e.g. ancient Greeks etc.) and the modern era. But then you have the Bacha bazi, and I think one would be hard pressed to say that Afghanistan represents the apex or decline of civilization.

    Anyway, it would seem that the cause is something not confined to new chemicals (though maybe increased by them) as it is present throughout history and in animals as well. My guess remains that there are traits that cause a net gain in reproductive fitness on average in spite of causing homosexuality or lesbianism as a byproduct.

    Ironically, lesbianism would be the byproduct of the DNA for the Macho Man.

    I was thinking about how the overall reproductive fitness being even or greater as a model for those homosexuality or lesbian genes theory might predict outcomes.

    In societies where there is less egalitarianism, the most desireable women would have more children. The sons of which would have a higher proportion of gays. Maybe this applies in Afghanistan as it does in civilizations that have finished wrecking havoc with external confrontation and it’s every man for himself.

    Societies with more lesbians would exist where the macho breadwinner types would have more kids, but not necessarily select the prettiest wife. Instead, they would select for practicality and availability. Or maybe in the areas where it is females who select the men to breed with, and pick the macho guys, while the macho guys sleep with anything that moves. If this is the case, there would be more black lesbians.

    I am not certain about these predictions but it’s a starting point. You could have societies maybe that select for the hyper-feminine, hyper-masculine, both, or none. Maybe. And it would have outcomes in prevalances of homos and lesbians.

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  133. @cthulhu


    If something like that existed then it would have been found by now.

     

    Not necessarily. Think about toxoplasmosis, for example. And we still don't know what causes schizophrenia either. Lots of things may well have an underlying microbe or parasite as a significant factor. Greg Cochran is I think still an advocate of the "gay germ" hypothesis; check out his website.

    Despite quite a few people on the right thinking it explains cat ladies, the evidence for T. gondii affecting human behaviour is weak.

    Toxoplasma gondii (T. gondii) is a protozoan parasite present in around a third of the human population. Infected individuals are commonly asymptomatic, though recent reports have suggested that infection might influence aspects of the host’s behavior. In particular, Toxoplasma infection has been linked to schizophrenia, suicide attempt, differences in aspects of personality and poorer neurocognitive performance. However, these studies are often conducted in clinical samples or convenience samples.

    Methods/Results

    In a population-representative birth-cohort of individuals tested for presence of antibodies to T. gondii (N = 837) we investigated the association between infection and four facets of human behavior: neuropsychiatric disorder (schizophrenia and major depression), poor impulse control (suicidal behavior and criminality), personality, and neurocognitive performance. Suicide attempt was marginally more frequent among individuals with T. gondii seropositivity (p = .06). Seropositive individuals also performed worse on one out of 14 measures of neuropsychological function.

    Conclusion

    On the whole, there was little evidence that T. gondii was related to increased risk of psychiatric disorder, poor impulse control, personality aberrations or neurocognitive impairment.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0148435

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  134. @Steve Sailer
    Has there been a rash of other accusers against Takei, or is that a stand-alone one?

    Also Jann Wenner and some photographer just the other day. The victims were mid/late 20s.

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  135. @Pat Boyle
    I have known about Levine's fondness for boys for at least forty years. Everyone of my music friends also knew. Fewer people knew about Leonard Bernstein - only a few million, I would hazard.

    Why didn’t Leonard Bernthtein host some variations on his Radical Chic dinner parties to cater to the local music and art crowd? Maybe he decided there wasn’t much glory in the whole thing.

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  136. @JimB
    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch? I suspect somehow there is a connection between Hillary losing the election and this left-wing pervert Gotterdammerung.

    Women always copy each other. I’m guessing most of the accusations are true. But for a woman to do anything, including report an instance of harassment, she has to see other women do it first. Why did the Weinstein scandal unleash this flood of accusations? Why didn’t the Cosby scandal do it? The O’Reilly scandal, the hundreds of scandals before that?

    Simple. Mnay of the women harassed by Weinstein were current stars, the kind that are featured on TMZ, in the tabloids, on celeb gossip blogs. That gets women’s attention. Cosby’s victims were active in an earlier era and were less prominent even then. All of the other scandals I can think of featured fewer and less famous women.

    The bigger, the more numerous the stars, the more female attention you’ll get. And the more female attention, the bigger the “me too” effect.

    Now why did the Weinstein scandal happen in the first place? I’m guessing he cheated someone more powerful than himself in business and was hit back for that through the NYT.

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  137. @Prof. Woland
    It is very important that the right does not make the same mistake with this new wave of outings that they made with the Catholic Church sexual scandals. By spinning those perpetrators as "pedophiles" instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook. I think that the general population is slowly becoming red pilled to the point where it has become harder to pull off stunts like this, the Haven Monahan brouhaha, and Hillary's 11 'women to come forward' kaka. Harvey Weinstein crossed a red line with his rape but these gays go one step further because their victims are underage so there can be no defense only obfuscation and that can only happen if we let it.

    What might be called the “classical model” of homosexuality – the only kind that really met the approval of ancient Greek society – involved an adult man (the erastes) and an adolescent boy (the eromenos). The liaisons of Harmodius and Aristogeiton, and of Hadrian and Antinous, were of this type. There is ample documentation for this, from Plato’s Symposium and Virgil’s second Eclogue, in which it was idealized, to the Satiricon of Petronius, in which the squabble between the protagonists Encolpius and Ascyltus over the catamite Giton is made into low comedy, and the twelfth volume of the Palatine Anthology, which is made up of short verses that amount mostly to salacious jokes.

    When all of the scandals involving Catholic clergy and adolescent males began to be made public, I could not help being impressed that the Church of Rome, though it had by then largely discarded the Latin language, had so faithfully preserved this particular aspect of classical antiquity.

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  138. One plausible reason why the scandals involve
    so many individuals with Jewish names is the
    high ratio of secular Jews to religious (Orthodox
    and Ultraorthodox) Jews in America, unlike, say, in Britain.

    As one example of a country with an overwhelming
    number of Orthodox as compared to secular Jews,
    take pre-1930s Poland. Jews, as we know, were expelled
    from Western Europe and banned from German-ruled
    Russia (tsars were 90% German) until the 19th century.
    About 90% of the Ashkenazi Jews lived in Poland for
    a number of centuries. In Warsaw, for example, the secular Jews
    were heavily represented in the vice industries such as prostitution
    (running bordellos and auditioning women), pornography, gambling,
    selling alcohol, and usury in money lending. None of that
    endeared them to the local population but was tolerated by the Russian
    authorities. However, because of the high number of religious Jews
    who were scandalized by their fellow coethnics, there were periodic
    raids by the religious Jews against the secular Jews, for example,
    around 1905. How successful those attempts by the Jewish comunity
    to police itself were I don’t know but they did exist.

    Perhaps as a result of the population explosion among the religious Jews
    in the U.S. , the Jewish community will be better able to police itself in
    the future but in the meantime what’s happening has all the makings of
    a moral crusade not unlike the abolitionist and the temperance movements,
    and is not likely to end until the show business, already seen as the den
    of iniquity, pays a severe price.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    This seems to imply that a higher than average proportion of the Jews that migrated to the US to get away from the various European problems of the 20th century, namely the Jews with the money and means to protect themselves, may have been involved in crime in the old countries. In other words, we should not be surprised by their sociopathic behavior in high positions.
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  139. @Anon 2
    Just to put this in perspective: sexual abuse happens by
    far much more frequently in families than on the outside. Roughly,
    in order, from the highest to the lowest rate:

    1. Live-in boyfriend and her daughters
    2. Stepfather and her daughters
    3. Half- and step-siblings
    4. Babysitters and children
    5. Uncles and nieces, etc
    6. Brothers and sisters
    7. Fathers and daughters
    8. Mothers and sons

    Any woman with young daughters who allows her boyfriend
    to move in is really asking for it. Because of high divorce
    rates there is no question that there is more sex abuse today
    than 50 years ago.

    Much lower in frequency is the abuse by unrelated adults
    who come in contact with children. The rates of abuse appear
    to be about the same in Catholic parishes, Protestant congregations,
    Jewish schools and synagogues, high school and college coaches, etc.

    The simplest solution to sex abuse problem would be to ban families.
    But seriously, if the show business is incapable of policing itself,
    then the powers that be will get involved and reimpose some
    form of the Hays Code. Hollywood can still be useful (although
    these days it seems dedicated primarily to polluting the minds
    of 15-year-olds) if placed under moral scrutiny. I agree with Steve
    that the highest priority is to keep the Hollywood and NYC types from
    lusting after kids by restricting the participation of children in
    show business in a reasonable way

    In other words:

    1. men
    2. in a position of dominance
    3. but not related closely enough to care about welfare of their victims

    Didn’t we already know this?

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  140. @Anonym
    You score a 1 on the chutzpah meter, Jack. First you define Jewishness disingenuously (there is no “Jewish law” to speak of), then you crack a joke about Einstein, as if he wasn’t an unobservant, irreligious, ethnic Jew.

    As an outsider looking in, I thought the Talmud is basically Jewish law. And he does have a point there in ethnically a hardcore Jew probably looks at mischlinge the way we look at Obama. Maybe not that bad but a quarter Jew is fairly weak sauce and should not constitute the tribe.

    Of course there is a body of Jewish law – the Jewish equivalent of canon law for Catholics. Now non-Orthodox Jews by definition don’t adhere to much of it, but it’s still there and is just as clearly defined and well understood as English common law. It’s been around at least since the time of the Old Testament. Denying that Jewish law even exists is insane or ignorant or something – like denying that gravity exists.

    That Lauer is not Jewish under Jewish law has nothing to do with weak sauce. It was just based upon a question of proof. In the days before DNA testing (in other words for the last 5,000 years until yesterday) we could be pretty sure of who a kid’s mother is but not so sure about who’s your daddy (see the speculation about Prince Harry) so Jewish law said we will consider that a kid bears the religion of the mother as a simple and easy to enforce rule. Just like in the West (until yesterday) kids carried their father’s surnames – just a simple easy to follow rule so you wouldn’t have to think about it every time a kid was born.

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    While I don't agree with everything you write, I was actually agreeing with what you wrote. You rated Lauer a non-Jew religiously and at best a half ethnically, acknowledging the patrilineal question mark that always exists except possibly in the mind of the mother.

    It's easy to consider things by one-drop perspectives from the white side, but the reality is that except for blacks just because we recognize them as "the other" it doesn't mean the other ethnicity recognizes them as one of their own. They are kind of in a no-man's land.
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  141. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JimB
    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch? I suspect somehow there is a connection between Hillary losing the election and this left-wing pervert Gotterdammerung.

    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch?

    Could it in some way be related to Trump’s pledge to drain the swamp?

    Read More
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  142. @Anon 2
    Just to put this in perspective: sexual abuse happens by
    far much more frequently in families than on the outside. Roughly,
    in order, from the highest to the lowest rate:

    1. Live-in boyfriend and her daughters
    2. Stepfather and her daughters
    3. Half- and step-siblings
    4. Babysitters and children
    5. Uncles and nieces, etc
    6. Brothers and sisters
    7. Fathers and daughters
    8. Mothers and sons

    Any woman with young daughters who allows her boyfriend
    to move in is really asking for it. Because of high divorce
    rates there is no question that there is more sex abuse today
    than 50 years ago.

    Much lower in frequency is the abuse by unrelated adults
    who come in contact with children. The rates of abuse appear
    to be about the same in Catholic parishes, Protestant congregations,
    Jewish schools and synagogues, high school and college coaches, etc.

    The simplest solution to sex abuse problem would be to ban families.
    But seriously, if the show business is incapable of policing itself,
    then the powers that be will get involved and reimpose some
    form of the Hays Code. Hollywood can still be useful (although
    these days it seems dedicated primarily to polluting the minds
    of 15-year-olds) if placed under moral scrutiny. I agree with Steve
    that the highest priority is to keep the Hollywood and NYC types from
    lusting after kids by restricting the participation of children in
    show business in a reasonable way

    So the type of family is the key thing.

    Read More
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  143. @anonymous
    One thing that jumps out at me is how far back the trail goes for all of the outed offenders. A guy like Sandusky didn't just start yesterday but probably had been at it for many years. All along the way people turned a blind eye to what was in front of them. People glossed over Bill Clinton's predatory behavior because they liked his politics. All of them got a pass until they overreached and enough was enough. Large numbers of people have been enablers and downright complicit in all this. Anyway, I'm enjoying the show and waiting for the next name on the list to be made public.

    Comments at classical music news site slippedisc dot com indicate Levine’s pederasty has long been known within the industry and by fans. The site’s proprietor, James Lebrecht, who is coincidentally a co-ethnic of Levine’s, has this to say about his silence to date:

    Over the past month, I have been contacted by at least half a dozen news organisations and journalists, all of whom request my help on investigations they were conducting into allegations of misconduct against the emeritus music director of the Metropolitan Opera. They included Reuters, AP, BBC Newsnight and other well-known operations.

    I refused, with one exception, to respond to any request since it was clear to me that these were no more than speculative fishing expeditions. There was, and remains, no evidence to substantiate a welter of suppositions against Mr Levine. Like everyone in the music world, I have heard rumours and investigated some of them. None has been supported by independent third-party testimony.

    The accuser whose story is told in the New York Post contacted me many months ago and several times since. I advised him at first contact to report the matter to the police, which he did. I have his deposition. It is alarming and unpleasant. It is backed by a diary the kept at age 16. It is not, however, substantiated by any other witness.

    On this basis, I declined to publish his allegations. So, too, did the New York Times, which (I am told) is conducting its own inquiry into an incident, possibly related to the Brooklyn Bridge.

    The rumours about James Levine remain rumours until proven. Unless they are, he has no case to answer.

    http://slippedisc.com/2017/12/james-levine-a-note-of-caution/

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  144. @Anonym
    There have been lots of homosexual males throughout history. Or rather, they have been present at least. I am tempted to make the argument that they flourish in civilizational decadence (e.g. ancient Greeks etc.) and the modern era. But then you have the Bacha bazi, and I think one would be hard pressed to say that Afghanistan represents the apex or decline of civilization.

    Anyway, it would seem that the cause is something not confined to new chemicals (though maybe increased by them) as it is present throughout history and in animals as well. My guess remains that there are traits that cause a net gain in reproductive fitness on average in spite of causing homosexuality or lesbianism as a byproduct.

    Ironically, lesbianism would be the byproduct of the DNA for the Macho Man.

    True, there’s definitely a lot of historical evidence of homosexuality, particularly male. The transgender stuff seems to have less historical precedent, though. Lots of gay love in the Iliad, but at no point did Agamemnon announce he was transitioning. I do wonder about later in life effects of performance enhancing drugs…

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  145. @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    Right in this thread someone mentioned a theory – a gene that makes you want to have a lot of sex with men. When the female offspring get the gene they have more offspring than average and when the male offspring get it they are gay. I’m not saying that this theory is right, but it would increase reproductive fitness of the family – the increased # of descendants in the female line would at least even out the lack of reproduction on the male side (note that in the past, most men who were attracted to men or boys still were expected to get married and have children).

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    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.
    , @Anonym
    Right in this thread someone mentioned a theory – a gene that makes you want to have a lot of sex with men.

    That was me. And I think it is more than that, maybe not even that, more it's a suite of attributes that increase reproductive fitness of one sex at the expense of the other. (It may be more than one gene as well.) We need to think, "what are these attributes?" What, historically, makes a man produce more children than other males and ensure they are successfully raised to adulthood? And vice versa for the female.

    E.g. the homosexual/hyper-feminine suite might comprise traits like above-average beauty to secure the attraction, deviousness/cattiness to help her win the mate, attention to nurturing, cooking, cleaning, preparing house for babies, etc. It would likely include attention to presentation (makeup, hair, etc) in order to maximize whatever appeal they have. It includes generating sex appeal to keep the husband. It includes some flirty behavior to attract the attention of desireable males. It might include proclivity and ability to dance, as that can attract the male eye. It would include an attraction for typical good providers - masculine build, to a lesser extent good looks as a signifier of health I suppose. And I suppose (although this is less a trait one notices or is likely to be expressed in gay males) the sort of body that is going to produce babies well - child bearing hips etc. But I mention that for completeness (though no doubt I will forget things).

    You are going to see these traits become more important when women have to compete for good men, e.g. with significant wealth inequality (polygyny) due to wars, harsh environment, or whatever. But maybe polygyny acts to lower this because a number of women can share a big man rather than having to compete for marriage of the big man. I think the argument is that Europeans have had selective pressures like this in the past. There is some data on this, not sure how good it is. Israel has a lot of homosexuals, so does Japan now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

    Traits I would expect from the lesbian/hyper-masculine man for increasing number of children raised successfully would differ depending on the Euro or African model. Euro model would be providing for children well (being competent, having leadership potential), driven, motivated, a good strong build suited for war or peace. Jealousy to ensure that the children raised are his own. Competitive in a physical and mental way. A desire to win competitions of strength, athletic ability, intelligence. Also, a desire to stick around and raise children to adulthood would be important I think.

    Hard times suits this sort of man, but hard times without a lot of war so that they have to compete to get mates.

    The African model of male reproductive success would be being able to attract the female, a strong athletic body, dance ability, winning feats of strength and that sort of thing, and more sex appeal, along with sex drive to have sex with everything that moves.

    As the African environment/people are one where women can raise a child alone and males are not as necessary, where men compete for the attentions of women and women don't have to compete for men, I would expect more lesbians in Africa and the women to be fairly mannish. It seems at least in South Africa this is the case. It's about 5 times as many lesbians as homosexuals it seems (non-gender conforming).
    , @Cato
    But that doesn't make any sense at all. Females do not get more offspring from having more sex, females need just enough sex to stay pregnant. Only males have more offspring if they have more sex, with more partners--which explains why men have such a strong appetite for sexual variety.
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  146. @unpc downunder
    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    The two concerns in relation to adult homosexuals and sexual harassment is whether they have too much access to teenage boys, and whether or not the liberal media has been going easy on them. You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

    Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency.

    No they don’t. Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men. To a degree that almost defies belief. To a certain extent that’s the defining characteristic of male homosexuality – an insanely overactive sex drive.

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls.

    An interest in underage girls is not particularly common among heterosexual men. An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.

    This “equivalency” idea is one of the big lies that we’ve been told. Homosexual men are not remotely similar to heterosexual men in any way. Sexually and emotionally they are entirely different.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men."

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan warlords.

    , @cthulhu
    "Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men."

    I suspect this is another example of men having a wider bell curve than women, as well as men in general being genetically predisposed to being somewhat more promiscuous than women (as predicted by evolutionary biology). When a man is chasing women for sex, there are evolutionary incentives to (mostly) settle down with one partner, and that moderates the man's ability to have strings-free casual sex with multiple women. Those incentives don't necessarily occur in homosexual relationships, so it may amplify the behavior of a promiscuous man who is already on the rightmost side of the bell curve. Certainly there were places where "bath house culture" seemed to reign supreme, but I suspect that it was in reality a small percentage of the total.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the '80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I'm straight as a board), who were all "out", and there was only one who was stereotypically "obsessed with sex" (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.
    , @Vinteuil
    "Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men."

    The single greatest work of art ever created by the minds of men (and a pair of thoroughly heterosexual men, at that) begs to differ:

    Madamina, il catalogo è questo
    Delle belle che amò il padron mio;
    un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io;
    Osservate, leggete con me.

    In Italia seicento e quaranta;
    In Alemagna duecento e trentuna;
    Cento in Francia, in Turchia novantuna;
    Ma in Ispagna son già mille e tre.

    V'han fra queste contadine,
    Cameriere, cittadine,
    V'han contesse, baronesse,
    Marchesane, principesse.
    E v'han donne d'ogni grado,
    D'ogni forma, d'ogni età.

    Nella bionda egli ha l'usanza
    Di lodar la gentilezza,
    Nella bruna la costanza,
    Nella bianca la dolcezza.

    Vuol d'inverno la grassotta,
    Vuol d'estate la magrotta;
    È la grande maestosa,
    La piccina è ognor vezzosa.

    Delle vecchie fa conquista
    Pel piacer di porle in lista;
    Sua passion predominante
    È la giovin principiante.

    Non si picca – se sia ricca,
    Se sia brutta, se sia bella;
    Purché porti la gonnella,
    Voi sapete quel che fa.

    Don Giovanni, Act 1, No. 4

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  147. @dfordoom

    Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency.
     
    No they don't. Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men. To a degree that almost defies belief. To a certain extent that's the defining characteristic of male homosexuality - an insanely overactive sex drive.

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls.
     
    An interest in underage girls is not particularly common among heterosexual men. An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.

    This "equivalency" idea is one of the big lies that we've been told. Homosexual men are not remotely similar to heterosexual men in any way. Sexually and emotionally they are entirely different.

    “An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.”

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan warlords.

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    • Replies: @anon
    You haven't been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?
    , @anon
    You haven't been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?

    I have seen nasty fights between homosexual waiters over which of the them would be the one to help a confused (underage) busboy "find his way". They were all about grooming teenage boys. Send in a young looking 21 year-old into a gay bar and watch the fireworks.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican
    dfordoom:

    An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.
     
    Steve:

    I doubt it …
     
    anon to Steve:

    You haven’t been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?
     
    Anon’s experience reminds me of an astute past comment by Brutusale (#72):

    If you had ever worked in a club, you’d know that ALL drinks are fighting drinks.
     
    To be fair ’n’ balanced, here’s a classic assessment of straight male desire by commenter CAPSLOCK HUSTLA at Heartiste:

    IN GRAPH #2, THAT COLUMN OF 20’S ARE LIKE A HORDE OF MONGOLS BESIEGING THE Y-AXIS TO BREAK THROUGH TO THE TEENS.
     
    https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/474733253308719104
    , @Anon
    You are being naive, perhaps confused by the media's tendentious use of the word pedophilia. Pedophilia properly refers to sexual interest in pre-pubescent boys or girls. Rare, basically incurable. Interest in young pubescent males (teenagers) is technically ephebophila, (alternatively pederasty) and almost universal among homosexuals. Google "twink". At the time of the catholic priest' bashing the media fudged both terms. (anything under 18 is "underage" after all, and thus "child abuse").

    That is why homos were traditionally seen as corruptors of minors (very young males), not of children, and convicted as such. They prostitute or "party" -- drug and alcohol often paving the way-- with poor, vulnerable teens. Sometimes singly, sometimes they gang up. Such is the case of O. Wilde, Turing and Keynes. The Daily Mail had videos of one such abused by Hollywood recently, I forget get his name.. Egan, Edan, but the depiction of the modus operandi was clear. When these twinks mature, grow up, grow hair, become men, they lose value and are discarded.
    , @Vinteuil
    “'An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.'

    I doubt it”

    Don't doubt it. In this respect, homosexual men are just like heterosexual men.

    If I may quote The Derb:

    "It is, in fact, a sad truth about human life that beyond our salad days, very few of us are interesting to look at in the buff. Added to that sadness is the very unfair truth that a woman's salad days are shorter than a man's — really, in this precise context, only from about 15 to 20."
    , @Mark F.
    I'm gay and was never seduced by an older man when I was a teenager. And have you heard of the large "bear community?" These are men who are disgusted with at the thought of sex with thin, hairless, feminine looking 17 year old boys.
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  148. @Jack D
    Right in this thread someone mentioned a theory - a gene that makes you want to have a lot of sex with men. When the female offspring get the gene they have more offspring than average and when the male offspring get it they are gay. I'm not saying that this theory is right, but it would increase reproductive fitness of the family - the increased # of descendants in the female line would at least even out the lack of reproduction on the male side (note that in the past, most men who were attracted to men or boys still were expected to get married and have children).

    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.
     
    No one factor accounts for all variations in human behavior, of course. But reproductive fitness is a big one and one that has been relatively underrated and certainly underdiscussed, at least post-WWII.

    I believe in evolution, because evidence.

    And based on that idea, reproductive fitness selection makes sense. No matter how beautiful, those who do not successfully reproduce are evolutionary dead ends.
    , @anonguy

    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.
     
    I'm genuinely wondering why you say this.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    Precisely.
    I was close to making the same remark myself, but instead I have been wondering who told Steve to take down his interesting thread on poor Prince Harry.
    , @Vinteuil
    Nobody (I mean, literally, nobody) thinks that "everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness."

    'Cause there's nobody smart enough to understand what the phrase "reproductive fitness" means who's also stupid enough to believe that it can explain "everything."

    There are, on the other hand, plenty of guys who seem to believe that *nothing* can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    Are you one of those guys?
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  149. @Anonymous
    Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn't make it true.)

    As to not having to think and hear about gays, just get rid of liberals. That way, you also don't have to hear about oppressed fat blue-haired black jewish rape survivor girls of color.

    Cochran’s gay germ hypothesis is the only explanation for homosexuality I’ve come across that makes any evolutionary sense to me. As for homophobia, he seems to genuinely appreciate openly gay commenter misdreavus on West Hunter, so it can’t be that bad. I don’t think he came up with the hypothesis just to slander gay men.

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  150. @Mr. Anon

    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males,..............
     
    Do they?

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I'm sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did. Is there any comparable phenomenon to be found among straight men? Not a few outliers, I mean, but an actual subculture of straight men dedicated to racking up the score like that?

    It seems to me that there is good evidence that gays, in some ways, have different mental wiring than normal people altogether.

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I’m sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did.

    It’s more likely that virtually all of them did. It seems to be an inherent part of male homosexuality.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    It’s more likely that virtually all of them did.
     
    If that had been the case, it seems like more of them would have died. The proclivity might be there, but there probably is, as in any group, a spectrum of license/restraint.
    , @Daniel H
    >>It’s more likely that virtually all of them did. It seems to be an inherent part of male homosexuality.

    I remember watching a local New York television special on AIDs, back in the early 80s, before the virus was even discovered and named. And the interviewee, a femmie gay dude who had AIDs was talking about gay "bathhouse" culture. He said, essentially, that the studliest, most virile male heterosexual couldn't hold a candle to the average, faggy femmie gay man in terms of out of control promiscuity. He claimed that the AVERAGE gay man would have at least one new sex partner per week. And there was a subgroup who would have about 20 distinct partners per week. With that statistic, it is easy to understand how that epidemic spread so quickly.
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  151. I was interested in Steve’s theory about a subset of homosexuals who are disdainful of women and about the types of societies/organizations in which they flourish.

    It was more interesting than the usual gloss that all ‘mos are effeminate child-touchers.

    Although that crowd is certainly present to an astounding degree.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    If you have a culture that encourages homosexual activity such as Afghanistan or classical Athens and drags in a lot of men who wouldn't be gay in the U.S., you probably get more pederasty.
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  152. @Steve Sailer
    "An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men."

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan warlords.

    You haven’t been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?

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  153. @JimB
    James Levine should no longer be conducting. He is a 75 year old obese quadriplegic who conducts from a wheel chair.

    Opera has both an audience problem and a weight problem. The sopranos are disgustingly fat, and the audiences are ancient. If the Met wants to return to its glory days of 20th Century it needs to combine more healthy looking performers with younger conductors. Sideline the fossils.

    James Levine, Charlie Rose, Garrison Keillor – all 75 years old. Pre-boomers, none of them with coruscating talent IMO.

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  154. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men."

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan warlords.

    You haven’t been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?

    I have seen nasty fights between homosexual waiters over which of the them would be the one to help a confused (underage) busboy “find his way”. They were all about grooming teenage boys. Send in a young looking 21 year-old into a gay bar and watch the fireworks.

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    • Replies: @larry lurker
    The first time I went to a gay bar I ran into a friend who was a few years older than me. He pointed at the X's drawn in magic marker on the back of my hands (to signal to the bartenders that I was underage): "Remember, those aren't X's. Those are targets."

    He was not wrong.

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  155. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein
    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    No one factor accounts for all variations in human behavior, of course. But reproductive fitness is a big one and one that has been relatively underrated and certainly underdiscussed, at least post-WWII.

    I believe in evolution, because evidence.

    And based on that idea, reproductive fitness selection makes sense. No matter how beautiful, those who do not successfully reproduce are evolutionary dead ends.

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    • Agree: Vinteuil
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  156. @unpc downunder
    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    The two concerns in relation to adult homosexuals and sexual harassment is whether they have too much access to teenage boys, and whether or not the liberal media has been going easy on them. You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    This hasn’t been my experience. I did a lot of theater from age 16 up through college, and…the one incident that sticks out most in my mind was our morbidly obese 40-something director going in for a kiss with my straight friend, a really good looking 16-year-old baseball player, when they were alone after rehearsal. Many of the older guys would make passes at me and my friends while we were still minors. It wasn’t a daily occurrence but it wasn’t rare either. Another director’s boyfriend grabbed me very aggressively in the parking lot after a cast party. Yet another guy, a professor in his early 60′s, was openly dating a 17-year-old (who looked about 14), taking him out to dinner… it looked like something out of L.I.E. I could go on.

    If the older straight guys in the cast – and there were quite a few of them – were doing this kind of stuff with the teenage girls, I never heard about it.

    You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

    This is also a factor, I think.

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  157. @JimB
    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch? I suspect somehow there is a connection between Hillary losing the election and this left-wing pervert Gotterdammerung.

    I think there is a connection with Trump’s election too – although obviously James Levine is not a power player in Democratic politics. I also think that there is a link to the collapsing economics of the legacy media, as laid out by Lee Smith in a Weekly Standard article describing how Harvey Weinstein’s financial downfall preceded his public exposure.

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  158. @Buffalo Joe
    Apparently Levine's instrument was a skin flute.

    and the upright organ

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  159. @TheBoom
    Homosexuals worldwide do seem to have a preference for sex with boys that exceeds heterosexual men's preference for underage girls. I always assumed that was because boys are closer to looking like girls when they are younger and homosexual relationships are built more around pure sex than heterosexual ones.

    Heterosexuals from white countries, who are into underage girls, seem to travel to find their victims whether Epstein's pedo island or developing countries. White cultures, for all the talk of the patriarchy, place a premium on protecting females, especially girls, and think males can fend for themselves. In many non white cultures males are more valued. I'm white cultures It is the girls.

    You see this in many areas such as how white parents are rather indifferent to schools being hotbeds of anti male ideology, acceptance of boys being bullied, lack of concern about males being raped (or domestic abuse of men), and even mundane things like how on social media parents seem more likely to post memes about how wonderful their daughters are than ones about their sons.

    Maybe white men have noticed that when white women cross paths with brown or black men, they’re more likely to be killed by the browns and blacks.

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  160. @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today’s America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    Hardly anyone accepts Cochran’s germ theory. It has always suited homosexuals to claim that they are the innocent victims of biology. They were just born this way!

    But if it isn’t genetic or a disease than it’s cultural. It’s a learned behaviour. Which makes the homosexual agenda of glamourising and promoting homosexuality very very disturbing to say the least. And a learned behaviour seems much more likely than anything physiological.

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    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    "...if it isn’t genetic or a disease than it’s cultural. It’s a learned behaviour..."

    No. It's not.
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  161. @dfordoom

    Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency.
     
    No they don't. Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men. To a degree that almost defies belief. To a certain extent that's the defining characteristic of male homosexuality - an insanely overactive sex drive.

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls.
     
    An interest in underage girls is not particularly common among heterosexual men. An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.

    This "equivalency" idea is one of the big lies that we've been told. Homosexual men are not remotely similar to heterosexual men in any way. Sexually and emotionally they are entirely different.

    “Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men.”

    I suspect this is another example of men having a wider bell curve than women, as well as men in general being genetically predisposed to being somewhat more promiscuous than women (as predicted by evolutionary biology). When a man is chasing women for sex, there are evolutionary incentives to (mostly) settle down with one partner, and that moderates the man’s ability to have strings-free casual sex with multiple women. Those incentives don’t necessarily occur in homosexual relationships, so it may amplify the behavior of a promiscuous man who is already on the rightmost side of the bell curve. Certainly there were places where “bath house culture” seemed to reign supreme, but I suspect that it was in reality a small percentage of the total.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the ’80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I’m straight as a board), who were all “out”, and there was only one who was stereotypically “obsessed with sex” (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the ’80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I’m straight as a board), who were all “out”, and there was only one who was stereotypically “obsessed with sex” (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.
     
    I used to know lots of homosexual men. I never encountered a single one who expressed the slightest interest in stable, monogamous relationships.
    , @Mr. Anon

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the ’80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I’m straight as a board), who were all “out”, and there was only one who was stereotypically “obsessed with sex” (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.
     
    Are you sure that you define the concept "stable, monogamous relationship" the same way a gay dude does?
    , @Anonymous
    My experience is the same as yours, but that's not going to fly in this conference.

    Young men of any stripe tend to be sex crazy, and the difference is that gays have that craze on both sides of the equation.
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  162. @MIkey Darmody
    I was interested in Steve's theory about a subset of homosexuals who are disdainful of women and about the types of societies/organizations in which they flourish.

    It was more interesting than the usual gloss that all 'mos are effeminate child-touchers.

    Although that crowd is certainly present to an astounding degree.

    If you have a culture that encourages homosexual activity such as Afghanistan or classical Athens and drags in a lot of men who wouldn’t be gay in the U.S., you probably get more pederasty.

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    • Replies: @Hannes
    I don’t believe that certain cultures produce a greater number of masculine homosexuals. In few places, hostility to gays was as great as in Britain. But even there, at its height the British Empire produced many homosexuals like General Gordon, Cecil Rhodes, Herbert Kitchener or T. E. Lawrence. Hector MacDonald had to commit suicide after his sexual behavior became known. Very masculine homosexuals have always existed, regardless of race, culture or historical moment.

    I’m inclined to believe that different causes produce different types of homosexuals. Perhaps some very masculine men may find much more rewarding to dominate another man than just a delicate woman.

    Regarding the age of the partner, what happens is only panic of contemporary morality, about sex with teenagers (girls or boys). Every society has sexual taboos. In ancient civilizations the greatest taboo was male sexual passivity. In the Christian era, it was homosexuality. And now, the biggest taboo is sex with minors. But the fact is that most men are attracted to postpuberty teenagers. Biology does not follow the current morality.

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  163. @Aaronnyc
    There is nothing that a conservative website or publication likes more than a story about a gay man with an underage male-it hits all the sweet spots. Even Steve can't resist. This is in contrast to any type of sexual harassment story concerning straight males towards women or girls. Those stories are always "exaggerated" and don't interest conservatives in the least.

    This is in contrast to any type of sexual harassment story concerning straight males towards women or girls. Those stories are always “exaggerated” and don’t interest conservatives in the least.

    Yeah, that’s why Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy got such kid-gloves treatment by conservatives.

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  164. @anon
    You haven't been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?

    I have seen nasty fights between homosexual waiters over which of the them would be the one to help a confused (underage) busboy "find his way". They were all about grooming teenage boys. Send in a young looking 21 year-old into a gay bar and watch the fireworks.

    The first time I went to a gay bar I ran into a friend who was a few years older than me. He pointed at the X’s drawn in magic marker on the back of my hands (to signal to the bartenders that I was underage): “Remember, those aren’t X’s. Those are targets.”

    He was not wrong.

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  165. Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    Think about it. If Jews dominated Hollywood and Big Media, the number of Jewish offenders would be proportionate.

    Since we know that Jews don't dominate these institutions, the reason so many Jews are accused can only be ... ... anti-Semitism.

    The Elders of Goyim have struck again! Read the Protocols of the Elders of Goyim. It explains all their nefarious plans.
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  166. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon 2
    One plausible reason why the scandals involve
    so many individuals with Jewish names is the
    high ratio of secular Jews to religious (Orthodox
    and Ultraorthodox) Jews in America, unlike, say, in Britain.

    As one example of a country with an overwhelming
    number of Orthodox as compared to secular Jews,
    take pre-1930s Poland. Jews, as we know, were expelled
    from Western Europe and banned from German-ruled
    Russia (tsars were 90% German) until the 19th century.
    About 90% of the Ashkenazi Jews lived in Poland for
    a number of centuries. In Warsaw, for example, the secular Jews
    were heavily represented in the vice industries such as prostitution
    (running bordellos and auditioning women), pornography, gambling,
    selling alcohol, and usury in money lending. None of that
    endeared them to the local population but was tolerated by the Russian
    authorities. However, because of the high number of religious Jews
    who were scandalized by their fellow coethnics, there were periodic
    raids by the religious Jews against the secular Jews, for example,
    around 1905. How successful those attempts by the Jewish comunity
    to police itself were I don't know but they did exist.

    Perhaps as a result of the population explosion among the religious Jews
    in the U.S. , the Jewish community will be better able to police itself in
    the future but in the meantime what's happening has all the makings of
    a moral crusade not unlike the abolitionist and the temperance movements,
    and is not likely to end until the show business, already seen as the den
    of iniquity, pays a severe price.

    This seems to imply that a higher than average proportion of the Jews that migrated to the US to get away from the various European problems of the 20th century, namely the Jews with the money and means to protect themselves, may have been involved in crime in the old countries. In other words, we should not be surprised by their sociopathic behavior in high positions.

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  167. @dfordoom

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I’m sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did.
     
    It's more likely that virtually all of them did. It seems to be an inherent part of male homosexuality.

    It’s more likely that virtually all of them did.

    If that had been the case, it seems like more of them would have died. The proclivity might be there, but there probably is, as in any group, a spectrum of license/restraint.

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  168. @Intelligent Dasein
    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    I’m genuinely wondering why you say this.

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  169. @The Man From K Street

    What percentage of gay men accused in Weinsteingate are accused of offenses with underage males?
     
    The John Jay Report of 2004 established as an authoritative baseline that, in the "Catholic Priest Child Abuse Crisis," something like 85% of all such incidents were actually homosexual priests grooming confused, postpubescent teenage boys.

    I would expect a similar percentage in this case.

    The john jay report claimed, it did not “establish”.

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  170. @FKA Max

    You know, as a heterosexual man you should be grateful for and cheer on every openly gay man out there, since it means less mating competition for you and other heterosexual men, which contributes to and translates into a more conflict-free, peaceful and less deadly world for men. Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:

    Fecundity of Paternal and Maternal Non-Parental Female Relatives of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

    Moreover, due to the selective increase in maternal female fecundity, the total female fecundity was significantly higher in homosexual than heterosexual probands, thus compensating for the reduced fecundity of homosexuals. Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.

    – http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051088

    Men are dying for sex: Mating competition explains excess male mortality

    – https://phys.org/news/2010-05-men-dying-sex-competition-excess.html
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2074457

    Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:

    Malaria has a “purpose” … doesn’t mean it’s pleasant to have around.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Laughing here. Yes, we really should blame Nature/God for our individual acts of free will. Particularly gluttony, robbery, revenge, murder, lying, sexual deviance, etc. Why should we be held accountable? There's a higher purpose involved.

    I think FKA is a program troll that weaves links/info into comments threads.
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  171. @prosa123
    "Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years"

    It's back in business.

    >>“Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years”

    The contracts for the trade unions are absolutely ridiculous, same as at Carnegie Hall. Stage hands earn $200-$300 thousand dollars, and even more. When living in New York, I would attend a few concerts at Carnegie and the Met per year. Somehow they got my phone number and their fund raisers would harangue me for donations. I must have received 5 calls per year from them. One time I explained patiently that I only earned about $25K per year, and I was content to pay whatever admission they charged for an event, but no way would I donate to their institution. I suggested that if they needed funding the first thing they should do is take on the trade unions. The calls stopped.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It'a nuts, but then again, if the average Midwesterner were to be offered a job in Manhattan and he expected to live as regular Americans do, right now, he'd want about $200K a year just for the cost of living differential.
    , @stillCARealist
    confirmed. My husband has tax clients who work as stage hands in NYC and make huge sums. Much more than the performers. Unions.

    Also, he has clients who work as waiters in expensive restaurants. They make well north of 100k a year with their tips. No unions.

    Something to think about when helping kids decide on a career.
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  172. @dfordoom

    A lot of the spread of AIDS was due to homosexual men who routinely had dozens of anonymous sex partners in the course of a night, even to the point of using drugs to enable it. Now, I’m sure not all gay men do that, or perhaps even most gay men, but clearly a not insignificant sub-set of them did.
     
    It's more likely that virtually all of them did. It seems to be an inherent part of male homosexuality.

    >>It’s more likely that virtually all of them did. It seems to be an inherent part of male homosexuality.

    I remember watching a local New York television special on AIDs, back in the early 80s, before the virus was even discovered and named. And the interviewee, a femmie gay dude who had AIDs was talking about gay “bathhouse” culture. He said, essentially, that the studliest, most virile male heterosexual couldn’t hold a candle to the average, faggy femmie gay man in terms of out of control promiscuity. He claimed that the AVERAGE gay man would have at least one new sex partner per week. And there was a subgroup who would have about 20 distinct partners per week. With that statistic, it is easy to understand how that epidemic spread so quickly.

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  173. @Jack D
    Of course there is a body of Jewish law - the Jewish equivalent of canon law for Catholics. Now non-Orthodox Jews by definition don't adhere to much of it, but it's still there and is just as clearly defined and well understood as English common law. It's been around at least since the time of the Old Testament. Denying that Jewish law even exists is insane or ignorant or something - like denying that gravity exists.

    That Lauer is not Jewish under Jewish law has nothing to do with weak sauce. It was just based upon a question of proof. In the days before DNA testing (in other words for the last 5,000 years until yesterday) we could be pretty sure of who a kid's mother is but not so sure about who's your daddy (see the speculation about Prince Harry) so Jewish law said we will consider that a kid bears the religion of the mother as a simple and easy to enforce rule. Just like in the West (until yesterday) kids carried their father's surnames - just a simple easy to follow rule so you wouldn't have to think about it every time a kid was born.

    While I don’t agree with everything you write, I was actually agreeing with what you wrote. You rated Lauer a non-Jew religiously and at best a half ethnically, acknowledging the patrilineal question mark that always exists except possibly in the mind of the mother.

    It’s easy to consider things by one-drop perspectives from the white side, but the reality is that except for blacks just because we recognize them as “the other” it doesn’t mean the other ethnicity recognizes them as one of their own. They are kind of in a no-man’s land.

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  174. @Steve Sailer
    "An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men."

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan warlords.

    dfordoom:

    An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.

    Steve:

    I doubt it …

    anon to Steve:

    You haven’t been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?

    Anon’s experience reminds me of an astute past comment by Brutusale (#72):

    If you had ever worked in a club, you’d know that ALL drinks are fighting drinks.

    To be fair ’n’ balanced, here’s a classic assessment of straight male desire by commenter CAPSLOCK HUSTLA at Heartiste:

    IN GRAPH #2, THAT COLUMN OF 20’S ARE LIKE A HORDE OF MONGOLS BESIEGING THE Y-AXIS TO BREAK THROUGH TO THE TEENS.

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    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    Here are the charts in better resolution.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10
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  175. @Thirdeye
    There's support for your theory in recent research into epigenetics, the on/off switching of heritable traits by hormones in the prenatal and perinatal environments. The focus of epigenetic studies related to human development has been on stress-related hormones flipping the switch on Cluster B personality traits - narcissistic, borderline, psychopathic, histrionic, etc. personalities. There is also a non-trivial correlation between those traits and various paraphilias, - fetishes, sado-masochism, pedophilia, homosexuality, etc. A mother exhibiting Cluster B traits is less stress-tolerant than others and more likely to produce Cluster B offspring, through her own personality influence and, potentially, stress-related prenatal and perinatal hormone imbalance. Prenatal and perinatal hormone therapy has potential to save a whole lot of pain down the road.

    Thank you for your informative reply! I’ve always been skeptical of a genetic explanation because it seems to me to be strongly selected against, especially in the ancestral environment. Hormonal influences might account for the fact that some homosexuals do truly seem to be born that way. I don’t rule out environmental influences, especially for people with some predisposition to homosexuality. From what I’ve read, homosexuals live fairly miserable lives, even if “successful;” it would make humanity better if the condition could be cured.

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    • Replies: @Thirdeye
    The Darwinian selection issue was a real problem for the homosexuality-as-inherited-trait argument, although there is no reason to doubt the reports of same-sex attraction as an early subjective experience.

    Posthumous examinations of male homosexual brains has shown that their neural cluster that connects the brain hemispheres has a closer resemblance to that of the female brain than to that of a normal male brain. What that suggests is that once the developmental defect sets in, whatever the cause, it is not reversible. A genetic predisposition may contribute to such development, although the brain circuits are also molded by conditioning. Homosexuality may not be curable at the individual level, although preventive measures applied early in childhood development might be effective.

    Ironically, the postmodernist argument that the dominant heterosexual orientation of humans is a socially constructed result of "heteronormative" conditioning is the flip side of the argument of those who advocate "conversion therapy" for homosexuals. But then, intellectual honesty was never a priority among postmodernists.
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  176. @Svigor
    This all benefits the great homosexual shegetz conspiracy. We must stop the homosexual shegetz from corrupting our society. They'll be coming for the rest of us soon. Stop the homosexual shegetz witch hunts.

    Nah. They wont be coming after us. We’re too old. Its our boys with the cute pooters they will keep coming after.

    Does your high school have a Gay and Lesbian Student Education Network (GLSEN) chapter? Do your kids stop by the local clubhouse after school and on the weekends?

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  177. @cthulhu
    "Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men."

    I suspect this is another example of men having a wider bell curve than women, as well as men in general being genetically predisposed to being somewhat more promiscuous than women (as predicted by evolutionary biology). When a man is chasing women for sex, there are evolutionary incentives to (mostly) settle down with one partner, and that moderates the man's ability to have strings-free casual sex with multiple women. Those incentives don't necessarily occur in homosexual relationships, so it may amplify the behavior of a promiscuous man who is already on the rightmost side of the bell curve. Certainly there were places where "bath house culture" seemed to reign supreme, but I suspect that it was in reality a small percentage of the total.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the '80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I'm straight as a board), who were all "out", and there was only one who was stereotypically "obsessed with sex" (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the ’80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I’m straight as a board), who were all “out”, and there was only one who was stereotypically “obsessed with sex” (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.

    I used to know lots of homosexual men. I never encountered a single one who expressed the slightest interest in stable, monogamous relationships.

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  178. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    dfordoom:

    An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.
     
    Steve:

    I doubt it …
     
    anon to Steve:

    You haven’t been around a lot of homosexuals, have you?
     
    Anon’s experience reminds me of an astute past comment by Brutusale (#72):

    If you had ever worked in a club, you’d know that ALL drinks are fighting drinks.
     
    To be fair ’n’ balanced, here’s a classic assessment of straight male desire by commenter CAPSLOCK HUSTLA at Heartiste:

    IN GRAPH #2, THAT COLUMN OF 20’S ARE LIKE A HORDE OF MONGOLS BESIEGING THE Y-AXIS TO BREAK THROUGH TO THE TEENS.
     
    https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/474733253308719104
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  179. @eah
    https://twitter.com/est1608/status/937421812664819713

    Think about it. If Jews dominated Hollywood and Big Media, the number of Jewish offenders would be proportionate.

    Since we know that Jews don’t dominate these institutions, the reason so many Jews are accused can only be … … anti-Semitism.

    The Elders of Goyim have struck again! Read the Protocols of the Elders of Goyim. It explains all their nefarious plans.

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  180. @Steve Sailer
    If you have a culture that encourages homosexual activity such as Afghanistan or classical Athens and drags in a lot of men who wouldn't be gay in the U.S., you probably get more pederasty.

    I don’t believe that certain cultures produce a greater number of masculine homosexuals. In few places, hostility to gays was as great as in Britain. But even there, at its height the British Empire produced many homosexuals like General Gordon, Cecil Rhodes, Herbert Kitchener or T. E. Lawrence. Hector MacDonald had to commit suicide after his sexual behavior became known. Very masculine homosexuals have always existed, regardless of race, culture or historical moment.

    I’m inclined to believe that different causes produce different types of homosexuals. Perhaps some very masculine men may find much more rewarding to dominate another man than just a delicate woman.

    Regarding the age of the partner, what happens is only panic of contemporary morality, about sex with teenagers (girls or boys). Every society has sexual taboos. In ancient civilizations the greatest taboo was male sexual passivity. In the Christian era, it was homosexuality. And now, the biggest taboo is sex with minors. But the fact is that most men are attracted to postpuberty teenagers. Biology does not follow the current morality.

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    • Replies: @Vinteuil
    "...most men are attracted to postpuberty teenagers. Biology does not follow the current morality."

    Indeed. And most men don't stop being attracted to postpuberty teenagers as they get older & richer.
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  181. @Anonymous
    Cochran's germ theory seems strong. Isolated tribes in various places across the globe have been discovered with zero history of homosexuality.

    Cochran’s germ theory seems strong. Isolated tribes in various places across the globe have been discovered with zero history of homosexuality.

    They have zero history of electricity too, so is that spread by germs/viruses too?

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  182. @Daniel H
    >>“Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years”

    The contracts for the trade unions are absolutely ridiculous, same as at Carnegie Hall. Stage hands earn $200-$300 thousand dollars, and even more. When living in New York, I would attend a few concerts at Carnegie and the Met per year. Somehow they got my phone number and their fund raisers would harangue me for donations. I must have received 5 calls per year from them. One time I explained patiently that I only earned about $25K per year, and I was content to pay whatever admission they charged for an event, but no way would I donate to their institution. I suggested that if they needed funding the first thing they should do is take on the trade unions. The calls stopped.

    It’a nuts, but then again, if the average Midwesterner were to be offered a job in Manhattan and he expected to live as regular Americans do, right now, he’d want about $200K a year just for the cost of living differential.

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  183. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    AIDS death rates in the 1980s provided a lot of hard evidence of rates of homosexuality by profession. For example, ballet/modern dance got hit hard, as did figure skating. Professional golf, not so much. I don't recall much about conductors one way or another.

    It could be that there is a symphony vs. opera divide of some sort. Opera is more like Broadway musicals (also hit hard) than symphonies are.

    Musicians that play the classical instruments(piano, violin, cello, etc) have a tendency to be gay. This is especially true when the musicians play that most august of all musical styles, classical European art music. There is that old joke about how the only straight pianists are bad pianists. The sophistication and beauty of classical musical appeals to gays, and so does the prospect of being adulated and adored by crowds of the finest people. While, for instance, rock, especially hard rock, is all about expressing one’s most ferocious masculine instincts, classical music is all about expressing all the emotions, thoughts, hopes , tragedy and inner conflicts of the human soul and condition. It’s all about subjectivity, ultimately, and that is innately feminine. Paradoxically, the great composers like Beethoven, Mozart and Brahms were men with strong domineering masculine personalities. But professionally soloists playing the classical instruments tend to be gay in huge numbers. There are actually a lot of pianists, cellists and violinists that are openly gay. But maybe there aren’t many AIDS cases because maybe they tend to be less promiscuous than typical gays. Or maybe there have been more cases, but it has been sweapt under the rug.

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There is a slight straight vs. gay divide in popular music between guitarists and keyboard players.
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  184. @Jack D
    Right in this thread someone mentioned a theory - a gene that makes you want to have a lot of sex with men. When the female offspring get the gene they have more offspring than average and when the male offspring get it they are gay. I'm not saying that this theory is right, but it would increase reproductive fitness of the family - the increased # of descendants in the female line would at least even out the lack of reproduction on the male side (note that in the past, most men who were attracted to men or boys still were expected to get married and have children).

    Right in this thread someone mentioned a theory – a gene that makes you want to have a lot of sex with men.

    That was me. And I think it is more than that, maybe not even that, more it’s a suite of attributes that increase reproductive fitness of one sex at the expense of the other. (It may be more than one gene as well.) We need to think, “what are these attributes?” What, historically, makes a man produce more children than other males and ensure they are successfully raised to adulthood? And vice versa for the female.

    E.g. the homosexual/hyper-feminine suite might comprise traits like above-average beauty to secure the attraction, deviousness/cattiness to help her win the mate, attention to nurturing, cooking, cleaning, preparing house for babies, etc. It would likely include attention to presentation (makeup, hair, etc) in order to maximize whatever appeal they have. It includes generating sex appeal to keep the husband. It includes some flirty behavior to attract the attention of desireable males. It might include proclivity and ability to dance, as that can attract the male eye. It would include an attraction for typical good providers – masculine build, to a lesser extent good looks as a signifier of health I suppose. And I suppose (although this is less a trait one notices or is likely to be expressed in gay males) the sort of body that is going to produce babies well – child bearing hips etc. But I mention that for completeness (though no doubt I will forget things).

    You are going to see these traits become more important when women have to compete for good men, e.g. with significant wealth inequality (polygyny) due to wars, harsh environment, or whatever. But maybe polygyny acts to lower this because a number of women can share a big man rather than having to compete for marriage of the big man. I think the argument is that Europeans have had selective pressures like this in the past. There is some data on this, not sure how good it is. Israel has a lot of homosexuals, so does Japan now.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

    Traits I would expect from the lesbian/hyper-masculine man for increasing number of children raised successfully would differ depending on the Euro or African model. Euro model would be providing for children well (being competent, having leadership potential), driven, motivated, a good strong build suited for war or peace. Jealousy to ensure that the children raised are his own. Competitive in a physical and mental way. A desire to win competitions of strength, athletic ability, intelligence. Also, a desire to stick around and raise children to adulthood would be important I think.

    Hard times suits this sort of man, but hard times without a lot of war so that they have to compete to get mates.

    The African model of male reproductive success would be being able to attract the female, a strong athletic body, dance ability, winning feats of strength and that sort of thing, and more sex appeal, along with sex drive to have sex with everything that moves.

    As the African environment/people are one where women can raise a child alone and males are not as necessary, where men compete for the attentions of women and women don’t have to compete for men, I would expect more lesbians in Africa and the women to be fairly mannish. It seems at least in South Africa this is the case. It’s about 5 times as many lesbians as homosexuals it seems (non-gender conforming).

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  185. @Anonymous
    Musicians that play the classical instruments(piano, violin, cello, etc) have a tendency to be gay. This is especially true when the musicians play that most august of all musical styles, classical European art music. There is that old joke about how the only straight pianists are bad pianists. The sophistication and beauty of classical musical appeals to gays, and so does the prospect of being adulated and adored by crowds of the finest people. While, for instance, rock, especially hard rock, is all about expressing one's most ferocious masculine instincts, classical music is all about expressing all the emotions, thoughts, hopes , tragedy and inner conflicts of the human soul and condition. It's all about subjectivity, ultimately, and that is innately feminine. Paradoxically, the great composers like Beethoven, Mozart and Brahms were men with strong domineering masculine personalities. But professionally soloists playing the classical instruments tend to be gay in huge numbers. There are actually a lot of pianists, cellists and violinists that are openly gay. But maybe there aren't many AIDS cases because maybe they tend to be less promiscuous than typical gays. Or maybe there have been more cases, but it has been sweapt under the rug.

    There is a slight straight vs. gay divide in popular music between guitarists and keyboard players.

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    http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/band-member-equations.jpg
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  186. @unpc downunder
    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    The two concerns in relation to adult homosexuals and sexual harassment is whether they have too much access to teenage boys, and whether or not the liberal media has been going easy on them. You could argue that teenage gay boys are more likely to agree to inappropriate sexual relations with gay men, but that is different to unwelcome sexual harassment.

    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.

    You are so precious, bless your heart. You must be from the Will & Grace/”Angels in America” generation. “They are just like us, only different.”

    The sad fact is that it takes truly grotesque levels of promiscuity and sexual perversion to spread (and keep spreading) AIDS. And there are many, Many, MANY things that girls and women Just. Won’t. Do.

    Read Larry Kramer’s book “Faggots”. Read “And the Band Played On”. Look up “barebacking”, “bug chasers”, and “bathhouses”. Google “prolapsed anus” and “NAMBLA”. Search the CDC archives for their hundreds of research reports on MSM sex over the last 40 years. Download Grindr and take a peek. Google images and videos (in uncensored mode, natch) for the Folsom Street parade held annually in San Francisco for over forty years now.

    My goodness gracious, there is so much evidence right under your nose! When GRID (gay-related immune deficiency) was announced way back in the Dark Ages I was a university student and was forced to satisfy my curiosity (and quiet my fears) at the many University libraries. But you, my friend, have the Internet.

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  187. @Jack D
    If by infectious agent you mean something like a virus or bacteria, I'd rate that as being very unlikely. If something like that existed then it would have been found by now. Also contagious diseases spread in certain well known patterns which are nothing like the incidence of homosexuality. Some sort of hormonal imbalances in utero at some critical stage of brain formation are much more likely.

    In 2005, Dr. Barry Marshall received the Nobel Prize in Physiology for his discovery that gastric and duodenal ulcers were caused by the bacteria helicobacter pylori.

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  188. @Steve Sailer
    AIDS death rates in the 1980s provided a lot of hard evidence of rates of homosexuality by profession. For example, ballet/modern dance got hit hard, as did figure skating. Professional golf, not so much. I don't recall much about conductors one way or another.

    It could be that there is a symphony vs. opera divide of some sort. Opera is more like Broadway musicals (also hit hard) than symphonies are.

    Off the top of my head I can think of two gay symphony conductors: Michael Tilson Thomas and Leonard Bernstein.
    Gays are overrepresented in probably every music genre except country, bluegrass, and hip-hop (but only if raping men in prison doesn’t count as being gay).

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  189. @cthulhu
    "Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men."

    I suspect this is another example of men having a wider bell curve than women, as well as men in general being genetically predisposed to being somewhat more promiscuous than women (as predicted by evolutionary biology). When a man is chasing women for sex, there are evolutionary incentives to (mostly) settle down with one partner, and that moderates the man's ability to have strings-free casual sex with multiple women. Those incentives don't necessarily occur in homosexual relationships, so it may amplify the behavior of a promiscuous man who is already on the rightmost side of the bell curve. Certainly there were places where "bath house culture" seemed to reign supreme, but I suspect that it was in reality a small percentage of the total.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the '80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I'm straight as a board), who were all "out", and there was only one who was stereotypically "obsessed with sex" (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the ’80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I’m straight as a board), who were all “out”, and there was only one who was stereotypically “obsessed with sex” (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.

    Are you sure that you define the concept “stable, monogamous relationship” the same way a gay dude does?

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  190. @Anon
    This article claims 60% of classical musicians report that they had been sexually harassed, and the number rises to 70% among the self-employed.

    https://slippedisc.com/2017/12/sexual-harassment-is-rife-among-uk-classical-musicians/

    And "In Sweden, a much smaller country, almost 700 opera singers declared they had been harassed, practically the entire profession."

    And “In Sweden, a much smaller country, almost 700 opera singers declared they had been harassed, practically the entire profession.”

    Sweden has been going absolutely nuts with clever hashtags for each profession to sing out about various forms of abuse. When it comes to this sort of thing, Sweden will not be put in the corner!

    The best individual ones have been journalists, but I think it’s clever feminists driving the broader reports in a sort of class action twitter indictment, combined with some editorial direction by strategic figures in the media. (“fifty gazillion female workers in this sector report abuse under hashtag #sectorvexors!”)

    No mention of migrant abuse even though they do almost all the actual raping.

    Finally, I’m surprised there are 700 opera singers in the country. They might outnumber the opera goers.

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  191. @Vinteuil
    Since you speak of an "infectious agent," I take it you buy into something like Gregory Cochran's "gay germ" theory?

    But, in that case, what's with the offensive language? Why gratuitously insult people who are just victims of an illness?

    Q is one of the officially recognized letters of superiority. How spicy to also make it forbidden for breeders to use!

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  192. @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    As you’re well aware, we are well beyond that point.

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  193. @Diversity Heretic
    Thank you for your informative reply! I've always been skeptical of a genetic explanation because it seems to me to be strongly selected against, especially in the ancestral environment. Hormonal influences might account for the fact that some homosexuals do truly seem to be born that way. I don't rule out environmental influences, especially for people with some predisposition to homosexuality. From what I've read, homosexuals live fairly miserable lives, even if "successful;" it would make humanity better if the condition could be cured.

    The Darwinian selection issue was a real problem for the homosexuality-as-inherited-trait argument, although there is no reason to doubt the reports of same-sex attraction as an early subjective experience.

    Posthumous examinations of male homosexual brains has shown that their neural cluster that connects the brain hemispheres has a closer resemblance to that of the female brain than to that of a normal male brain. What that suggests is that once the developmental defect sets in, whatever the cause, it is not reversible. A genetic predisposition may contribute to such development, although the brain circuits are also molded by conditioning. Homosexuality may not be curable at the individual level, although preventive measures applied early in childhood development might be effective.

    Ironically, the postmodernist argument that the dominant heterosexual orientation of humans is a socially constructed result of “heteronormative” conditioning is the flip side of the argument of those who advocate “conversion therapy” for homosexuals. But then, intellectual honesty was never a priority among postmodernists.

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  194. @Semper Fidelis
    So far all of the men accused have hit one or more of the following criteria, in order of frequency:

    Liberal, Over 50, Jewish, Black, Gay, Catholic

    Why is that?

    The over 50 part is probably related to the age at which they gather enough power to launch their attacks without, till recently, fear of blowback. That and the fact that only prominent men are big news in this regard. Joe Schmo the 33 year old abusive manager of a Pizza Hut is simply not news.

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  195. @anonguy

    Eventually Big Brother is going to find out that we’re all just a bunch of perverts and he’s going to have to take away all our jobs, erase all records of our existence, and put an end to humanity and its history.

    Is this is how the world ends?

    I’m not defending the behavior. I am enjoying the schadenfreude as a bunch of people I think are scoundrels get publicly humiliated. However, one does wonder where we draw the line. Steve keeps implying this with each installment of And Then They Came For.
     

    You could say this, but actually the world is getting to be a better place.

    I'll use a term from Whiskey here, situational alphas, as that generally describes most of these guys getting smoked out. That is, shorn of their status/power, they'd likely not be doing too well in the sexual marketplace.

    Personally, I can't imagine pressuring an employee for sex in exchange for promotion, career advancement (or simply making any advances on an employee) and I'm in a position to do so and have been for many years. This isn't what normal, decent people do. It is what loser (with women) boys do when they win in some other aspect of their life and start transacting for sexual favors.

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.

    Now with the all the transparency that internet gives society, women (and men occasionally) can smoke out these creeps.

    I don't see what there isn't to like in all this, but that may be just because they haven't come for anonguy yet. But in the meantime, it just seems like the internet/social media is making the sexual marketplace more efficient, rooting out fraudsters, bad actors, etc.

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.

    In many of these cases, the women are no more innocent than the men.

    All relationships are power struggles. Everyone uses everyone. A man’s sexual desire is a tremendous weakness – a crushing liability – that an attractive, ambitious woman can easily exploit.

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.

    When you get to the point where a woman – any woman – can destroy a man’s – any man’s – career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking “He touched my breast twenty years ago!”, then you are treading on very thin ice.

    I’m not saying that guys like Weinstein and Franken shouldn’t be taken down. I am saying that giving women more power over men is not necessarily a good thing.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    FWIW, I agree with both of you. Gentlemen have existed since time immemorial, and the vast majority of them knew how and why to protect women's honor.

    Most of the creepy guys now being brought down never understood or cared to understand the preceding paragraph.

    But the danger of overreach is great, and we do now have a situation where accusation is tantamount to conviction. Even worse, fairly few are disturbed by this.
    , @anonguy

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.
     
    Really, you are basically agreeing with me that women are corruptible by pointing out ways in which you think they are.

    My point is that a guy in a position of power then plays to these weaknesses, thereby corrupting women. What is the difference between this and taking advantage of some other unsavory behavior to which we imperfect humans are susceptible?

    Yes, women (and men) are imperfect, as you note. What else is new under the sun?

    When you get to the point where a woman – any woman – can destroy a man’s – any man’s – career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking “He touched my breast twenty years ago!”, then you are treading on very thin ice.
    , @anonguy

    When you get to the point where a woman – any woman – can destroy a man’s – any man’s – career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking “He touched my breast twenty years ago!”, then you are treading on very thin ice.
     
    This is our new direct democracy. It wouldn't be happening/spreading if our society didn't generally approve of the outcomes. Women have been wanting to out slimy creeps since the beginning of humanity, I'm thinking, and now they have better tools with which to do so.

    Pretty simple, IMO.
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  196. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    "An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men."

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan warlords.

    You are being naive, perhaps confused by the media’s tendentious use of the word pedophilia. Pedophilia properly refers to sexual interest in pre-pubescent boys or girls. Rare, basically incurable. Interest in young pubescent males (teenagers) is technically ephebophila, (alternatively pederasty) and almost universal among homosexuals. Google “twink”. At the time of the catholic priest’ bashing the media fudged both terms. (anything under 18 is “underage” after all, and thus “child abuse”).

    That is why homos were traditionally seen as corruptors of minors (very young males), not of children, and convicted as such. They prostitute or “party” — drug and alcohol often paving the way– with poor, vulnerable teens. Sometimes singly, sometimes they gang up. Such is the case of O. Wilde, Turing and Keynes. The Daily Mail had videos of one such abused by Hollywood recently, I forget get his name.. Egan, Edan, but the depiction of the modus operandi was clear. When these twinks mature, grow up, grow hair, become men, they lose value and are discarded.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    There are two ways of looking at this - teenage boys have agency too. There are working class teenage boys who prostitute themselves, knowing that they have something to sell that gay men want. The money is a LOT better than you could make delivering newspapers or shining shoes. Turing befriended one such teen in the "rough trade" and the teen returned later with his friends to rob Turing's house. Turing was naive enough to call the cops and the investigation led to his being "outed" for what was then a crime in the UK.

    The reason these kids were "discarded" when they grew up is that many are not gay to begin with - it's just a means of making easy money to them. I think, like the rest of prostitution, this has declined in the West because men can get sex for free, but it still must go on in places like Thailand.
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  197. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Homosexuality very much has a purpose, in my opinion, otherwise Nature/God would not be selecting for it:
     
    Malaria has a "purpose" ... doesn't mean it's pleasant to have around.

    Laughing here. Yes, we really should blame Nature/God for our individual acts of free will. Particularly gluttony, robbery, revenge, murder, lying, sexual deviance, etc. Why should we be held accountable? There’s a higher purpose involved.

    I think FKA is a program troll that weaves links/info into comments threads.

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  198. @Prof. Woland
    It is very important that the right does not make the same mistake with this new wave of outings that they made with the Catholic Church sexual scandals. By spinning those perpetrators as "pedophiles" instead of gays, it was a PR coup that allowed the left completely off the hook. I think that the general population is slowly becoming red pilled to the point where it has become harder to pull off stunts like this, the Haven Monahan brouhaha, and Hillary's 11 'women to come forward' kaka. Harvey Weinstein crossed a red line with his rape but these gays go one step further because their victims are underage so there can be no defense only obfuscation and that can only happen if we let it.

    Homosexuals like to distinguish between homosexuals (good guys who go after legally aged boys) and pedophiles (bad guys who go after underage boys). However, I’ve run across a number of homosexuals in the media who forthrightly declare that “twinkies” are part of the homosexual scene … so, let’s be honest about it.

    Below is from Wikipedia. Notice the obfuscation:

    Twink is gay slang for a young man in his late teens to early twenties, with traits that can include attractiveness, having little or no body or facial hair, a slim to average build, or appearing to be younger than their actual age.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twink_%28gay_slang%29

    So, lets’ change my lead-in to accommodate this political correctness: Homosexuals like to distinguish between homosexuals (good guys who go after legally aged boys who look like underage boys) and pedophiles (bad guys who go after underage boys). The difference?

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is COMPLETELY different than heterosexual men, who have no interest in legally aged women who appear younger than their actual age. None at all. Heterosexual men want females who are the very opposite of twinks - females who are unattractive, having ample body and facial hair, a heavy build and appear to be older than their actual age.
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  199. How many say I. Remember Pizzagate being excoriated as fake news? This makes it look most plausible. Probably a hundred or more Levine victims.

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  200. The lawyers smell blood money in the water and won’t stop until they start feeding on each other (please notice how there are no high priced lawyers accused of sexual misconduct – yet).

    I’ll sit this next to “there are no Pitts or Beattys being accused,” and point out that Pitts and Beattys don’t need to resort to stalking, harassing, or coercion to get laid. Similarly, lawyers probably have a refined sense of what behavior can get them into legal trouble.

    Agreed. You do impress with the details about who has “a drop of jewish blood” and who doesn’t. Quite the scientist! Fred Rose isn’t Jewish, for example, because Pete Rose. Never mind the name “Rosen”…there are just way too many anti-semites around here right? I wish you people would quit ‘noticing’ things… it’s well known that we are actively hunting for more goyische offenders and hope very soon to have the situation under control.

    Cogdis among Jewish race-realists must be through the roof; grrreat at noticing, say, Blacks, but suddenly revert to textbook leftism to defend the Tribe from any hateful noticing.

    Why is this sudden public purge of celebrity lechers happening now? I can’t believe politics, entertainment, science, and the arts have spontaneously gotten religion on sexual harassment after tolerating it in various forms since forever. Why didn’t all this happen back in the 80s when the first Catholic Priest scandals hit the news? Why didn’t this purge happen on St. Obama’s watch? I suspect somehow there is a connection between Hillary losing the election and this left-wing pervert Gotterdammerung.

    Women are more prone to herding. The angry mob communist Big Media stirred up to get Trump doesn’t seem as intimidated by the natural chilling effects of “you’ll never work in this town again” and the like.

    Now why did the Weinstein scandal happen in the first place? I’m guessing he cheated someone more powerful than himself in business and was hit back for that through the NYT.

    I look askance at the Konspiracy Kookery attributing this all to some grand communist plan, but the idea that the Clintons’ time has been deemed over, and thus so was the protection afforded to their allies like Weinstein by the New York Times, seems perfectly reasonable.

    As an outsider looking in, I thought the Talmud is basically Jewish law. And he does have a point there in ethnically a hardcore Jew probably looks at mischlinge the way we look at Obama. Maybe not that bad but a quarter Jew is fairly weak sauce and should not constitute the tribe.

    Jewish Law:Jews::Christian or Catholic Law:Whites

    It’s not especially relevant to who Jews consider to be a Jew. A Jew is anyone the Tribe considers to be a Tribal member in good standing. Einstein’s a Jew. If he’d overseen the murder of millions, he wouldn’t be. This has nothing to do with any Jewish law that Jews would care to present.

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  201. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    That’s always the lie, isn’t it? “Just give blacks equal treatment and they’ll stop rioting and bitching so much!” “Just let these Hispanics have amnesty and they promise they’ll quit making so many demands!” “Just let women have jobs in corporate America, and then feminism will wither and die!”

    And the subject of Islamic demands in Europe is too depressing even to mention.

    Can you name me a group of people that actually stopped being noisy once we gave them what they claimed they wanted?

    I would also point out that, empirically, gays used to be a lot less noisy back when they were fairly certain that they wouldn’t be tolerated or accepted.

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  202. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel H
    >>Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn’t make it true.)

    I don't understand how proposing a gay germ theory can be "crafted out of personal hatred". Cochran simply muses on a perplexing matter that has caused and still causes misery to scores of millions of people, not just those afflicted with homosexuality, but their families too.

    A germ theory makes some sense, even to one as ignorant in biology as myself. Cochran's theory is supported by the fact that male homosexuality is more prevalent in those born in urban and suburban areas than rural areas (the statistics control for the fact that many gays move to urban/suburban areas to escape the isolation gays sense in rural life.) Furthermore, evidence has demonstrated that in just recently contacted human groups (Amazon Indian tribes) male homosexuality was completely unknown. Contact with the outside world, and the possible occurrence of homosexuality in these groups may reinforce his theory.

    Many gays seem to be happy with their disposition, but many are not. I have known some. If there were a reliable, certain remedy to eliminate homosexuality, and turn a homosexual towards heterosexuality, millions of gays would take up this remedy.

    > I don’t understand how proposing a gay germ theory can be “crafted out of personal hatred”.

    At some point he (sensibly) chose to hide the full ugliness of his thinking. His original gay germ paper remains unpublished. As far as I can tell, he never made it available. He doesn’t want the world to see it.

    That’s because the original theory is about parasitic manipulation. It implies that gay men are parasitically manipulated to actively seek out very young boys in order to infect them. Cochran’s original conception of germ-caused male homosexuality really is a story of germ-caused homoerotic pedophilia. Actual pedophilia, of the ugly “very young child” kind.

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  203. @Anonymous
    Cochran is an old fool coasting on good memory. (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred and is obviously beloved by other haters, but that doesn't make it true.)

    As to not having to think and hear about gays, just get rid of liberals. That way, you also don't have to hear about oppressed fat blue-haired black jewish rape survivor girls of color.

    (As to gay germ, it was crafted out of his personal hatred

    No, it was crafted it out of his numeracy.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    > No, it was crafted it out of his numeracy.

    I don't think so, although numeracy did serve to rule out some competing theories.

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  204. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Stan Adams

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.
     
    In many of these cases, the women are no more innocent than the men.

    All relationships are power struggles. Everyone uses everyone. A man's sexual desire is a tremendous weakness - a crushing liability - that an attractive, ambitious woman can easily exploit.

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.

    When you get to the point where a woman - any woman - can destroy a man's - any man's - career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking "He touched my breast twenty years ago!", then you are treading on very thin ice.

    I'm not saying that guys like Weinstein and Franken shouldn't be taken down. I am saying that giving women more power over men is not necessarily a good thing.

    FWIW, I agree with both of you. Gentlemen have existed since time immemorial, and the vast majority of them knew how and why to protect women’s honor.

    Most of the creepy guys now being brought down never understood or cared to understand the preceding paragraph.

    But the danger of overreach is great, and we do now have a situation where accusation is tantamount to conviction. Even worse, fairly few are disturbed by this.

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  205. @cthulhu
    "Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men."

    I suspect this is another example of men having a wider bell curve than women, as well as men in general being genetically predisposed to being somewhat more promiscuous than women (as predicted by evolutionary biology). When a man is chasing women for sex, there are evolutionary incentives to (mostly) settle down with one partner, and that moderates the man's ability to have strings-free casual sex with multiple women. Those incentives don't necessarily occur in homosexual relationships, so it may amplify the behavior of a promiscuous man who is already on the rightmost side of the bell curve. Certainly there were places where "bath house culture" seemed to reign supreme, but I suspect that it was in reality a small percentage of the total.

    The plural of anecdote is not data, but: in college in the '80s, I knew fairly well a dozen or so gay men in their early 20s (just worked out that way; I'm straight as a board), who were all "out", and there was only one who was stereotypically "obsessed with sex" (none of them ever made a pass at me though). The others were all in or looking for stable, monogamous relationships.

    My experience is the same as yours, but that’s not going to fly in this conference.

    Young men of any stripe tend to be sex crazy, and the difference is that gays have that craze on both sides of the equation.

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    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    I remember reading that homosexuality is interesting because it's how both sexes act when they don't have to please the other.
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  206. @JackOH
    Thanks to all for the comments. I'll assume James Levine was in a position to hire and advance musicians, and likewise, to decline to hire and advance musicians. That raises a question I've sometimes asked myself regarding the hiring, retention, granting of tenure, and advancement of grad assistants and junior faculty. How many of them are "sexed in" to their positions? My "evidence" from years of observation is sketchy, but not totally implausible.

    I’ve been in academia, at various institutions, for many years. Occasionally there has been some accusation of sexual harrassment of an undergraduate student by a professor, and occassionally an affair between a professor and a grad student (a bit questionable because of the power differential, but not necessarily a problem), but I have yet to come across a case of a senior faculty member taking sexual advantage of a junior faculty member. However, maybe I just work in an extraordinarily boring field…

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    • Replies: @JackOH
    Thanks, Scary. I put "evidence" in sneer quotes, because all I have is idle speculation fueled by a long history of observing numerous irregularities at my local Podunk Tech.

    Back around 1990 there was a murder by stabbing in my area. The trial was a sensation. Turned out the local gay dean of fine and performing arts had taken a student lover. He tossed that lover aside for another student lover. Enraged, the first lover murdered his replacement lover. Turned out that neither the murderer nor his victim were thought of as "gay", and both had dated women. Speculation naturally turned to whether the dean was preying on confused and alienated post-pubescent young adults. That's the origin of my question.

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  207. @Anon
    OT: It looks like Andrew McCabe and Rod Rosenstein are being prepared for firing. They were originally ordered to hand over all documents relating to the Trump investigation to Congress in early October, but chose to stonewall instead. In the wake of the revelation about Strzok, they've just been given 1 business day by Nunes to cough up. If they don't, they will be acting in contempt of Congress.

    But the important thing is, once they do disobey Congress, Trump now has the perfect pretext to fire them and get rid of two Obama era holdovers in his administration. Perfect.

    McCabe is a government lifer. Rosenberg was career government as well, but is as we speak a discretionary appointment of the Administration. (I would wager both are loyal to the Washington legal establishment, which is Trump’s enemy).

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  208. @Jack D

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.
     
    This is false. In the Catholic priest scandals, around 80% of the victims were boys. This was carefully studied and documented. Now I don't know what % of Catholic priests are gay, but I doubt it was 80%, so at least among priests, gay priests molested boys at a higher rate than straight priests molested girls. I think that gays are also more apt to go after pre-teens while among hetersexual men this is a very rare perversion.

    Richard Sipe, a resigned priest who despises the priest corps, offered an estimate of 20%. Other survey research indicates that about 1/3 are abnormal in some way. That would be consistent with an elevated propensity to molest on the order of 12-to-1. That’s roughly consistent with what crime data suggests as well.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is a long long way from "no empirical evidence that there is any difference". There are none so blind as those who do not want to see. We see the same head in the sand attitude with regard to black crime rates, intelligence, etc. Any evidence that you don't like you either ignore, explain away or consider to be hate facts.
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  209. @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    That’s not how it works. In any venue. Ever. Homosexuals who might be satisfied with ‘tolerance’ and ‘acceptance’ weren’t noisy to begin with.

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  210. @Steve Sailer
    There is a slight straight vs. gay divide in popular music between guitarists and keyboard players.

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    • LOL: Autochthon
    • Replies: @BB753
    Honestly, I'd never heard that keyboard players in rock bands tend to be gay. Could you please provide examples?
    , @Autochthon
    An anecdotal quibble: Derek Sherinian (or, rather, his hordes of horny groupies) never got the memo.

    "One example of Sherinian's outrageous personality happened while the band was on tour in Japan, and a large-scale earthquake rocked the hotel they were staying at. Band members understandably panicked, but Sherinian, a Californian native who was used to earthquakes, only came out of his room briefly with two toweled Japanese groupies and yelled 'Rock and Roll, baby!' before retiring back into his room."

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  211. @Father O'Hara
    Yeah,his son,Adam,the Beastie Boy,backed up the women and not his father. There is some bad blood between the two. It seems young Adam's girlfriend was raped by his dad. When she told him,you can imagine---Wait!! WHAT?????? Dear God in heaven! We've had some awkward holiday dinners,but these guys...

    At least, Horovitz’s family get to skip Christmas!

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  212. @TheJester
    Homosexuals like to distinguish between homosexuals (good guys who go after legally aged boys) and pedophiles (bad guys who go after underage boys). However, I've run across a number of homosexuals in the media who forthrightly declare that "twinkies" are part of the homosexual scene ... so, let's be honest about it.

    Below is from Wikipedia. Notice the obfuscation:

    Twink is gay slang for a young man in his late teens to early twenties, with traits that can include attractiveness, having little or no body or facial hair, a slim to average build, or appearing to be younger than their actual age.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twink_%28gay_slang%29

    So, lets' change my lead-in to accommodate this political correctness: Homosexuals like to distinguish between homosexuals (good guys who go after legally aged boys who look like underage boys) and pedophiles (bad guys who go after underage boys). The difference?

    This is COMPLETELY different than heterosexual men, who have no interest in legally aged women who appear younger than their actual age. None at all. Heterosexual men want females who are the very opposite of twinks – females who are unattractive, having ample body and facial hair, a heavy build and appear to be older than their actual age.

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    • LOL: Johann Ricke
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  213. @Svigor

    Not sure why you are bringing up this argument in relation to sexual harassment. Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency. Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls. I say probably because there is no empirical evidence to suggest otherwise.
     
    Homosexual males are not restrained by a lower sex drive among the sex they are attracted to. Hence bathhouse culture. Homosexuals are also a protected class, shielded by PC. Also, they have spent their lives flouting sexual norms. It's reasonable to suppose they tend to hit on anything that pings their gaydar sufficiently.

    Apparently it’s a common fantasy/delusion among gays that they are capable of seducing straight men. They think that they can convert straight men to the dark side with their sexual magnetism. Now probably what is happening when they succeed is that these men ping their finely tuned gaydar – even if they are living as straight men, the gays can sense that they’ve met a fellow Friend of Dorothy and they move in on him. I’ve come across this in several autobiographies written by gay men – those of Gore Vidal and Craig Claiborne come to mind.

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  214. @Art Deco
    Richard Sipe, a resigned priest who despises the priest corps, offered an estimate of 20%. Other survey research indicates that about 1/3 are abnormal in some way. That would be consistent with an elevated propensity to molest on the order of 12-to-1. That's roughly consistent with what crime data suggests as well.

    This is a long long way from “no empirical evidence that there is any difference”. There are none so blind as those who do not want to see. We see the same head in the sand attitude with regard to black crime rates, intelligence, etc. Any evidence that you don’t like you either ignore, explain away or consider to be hate facts.

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  215. @Stan Adams

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.
     
    In many of these cases, the women are no more innocent than the men.

    All relationships are power struggles. Everyone uses everyone. A man's sexual desire is a tremendous weakness - a crushing liability - that an attractive, ambitious woman can easily exploit.

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.

    When you get to the point where a woman - any woman - can destroy a man's - any man's - career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking "He touched my breast twenty years ago!", then you are treading on very thin ice.

    I'm not saying that guys like Weinstein and Franken shouldn't be taken down. I am saying that giving women more power over men is not necessarily a good thing.

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.

    Really, you are basically agreeing with me that women are corruptible by pointing out ways in which you think they are.

    My point is that a guy in a position of power then plays to these weaknesses, thereby corrupting women. What is the difference between this and taking advantage of some other unsavory behavior to which we imperfect humans are susceptible?

    Yes, women (and men) are imperfect, as you note. What else is new under the sun?

    When you get to the point where a woman – any woman – can destroy a man’s – any man’s – career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking “He touched my breast twenty years ago!”, then you are treading on very thin ice.

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  216. @Steve Sailer
    AIDS death rates in the 1980s provided a lot of hard evidence of rates of homosexuality by profession. For example, ballet/modern dance got hit hard, as did figure skating. Professional golf, not so much. I don't recall much about conductors one way or another.

    It could be that there is a symphony vs. opera divide of some sort. Opera is more like Broadway musicals (also hit hard) than symphonies are.

    The two conductors I referred to in my original post – Levine and Bernstein – were both gay and both Jews. Being Ashkenazi Jews they were both smart. So there is a nexus of connections here.

    About two and half to three percent of all men are gay – if the statistics can be believed. The popularity of classical music is declining but is still probably well above three percent. It is well established that more intelligent people prefer classical music but the so called “Mozart Effect” eg. Babies become smarter when the hear Mozart in the crib – is a silly myth.

    I have my own theory for all this based on my own life experiences. I think smart people often listen to classical musical genres because they tend to be self directed whereas less smart people merely follow current trends. I stopped listening to pop music when I was twenty or twenty one. That’s why I know nothing of pop music after the Beatles.

    I decided that if I was to live only once I should try to surround myself with the best things available. It was clear that pop music hits were created by repetition on the radio. I didn’t want an important part of my life to be determined by some disk jockey who received payola. Everything I read told me that there was a whole rich world of music that never got on the Top 40 but had been important for centuries. I decided to learn Bach and Mozart. The real Mozart Effect is that if you listen to Mozart’s instrumental and vocal music it becomes hard to listen to Rap, Rock and Roll or Country and Western.

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    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    " The real Mozart Effect is that if you listen to Mozart's instrumental and vocal music it becomes hard to listen to Rap, Rock and Roll or Country"

    Look I studied classical flute performance in Germany , at a "Musikhochschule" for four years, from 1982 to 1986, having worked up the two Mozart flute Concertos, in G and D to performance level, and went through Bach's and Teleman's flute creations , plus Debussey, Pergolesi, Vivaldi, and several other Baroque, and romance era masters.

    Aside from this (personal) endeavor, I have been performing Jazz, last gig yesterday, since the fifties, and regarding "Pop" music : I am a Beatles fan, a Country fan, and I despise "Rap", the worst cultural abberation to ever come out of the USA.

    I worship at the thrones of Charlie Parker and Chet Baker, and I know this will sound scurillous and rediculous: I like ABBA.

    Duke (Ellington, for uninitiated) stated : there only two kinds of music = "good and bad".

    PS : My flute ( Italian) professor, a consumate artist, liked Country, and did not speak a word of english.
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  217. @Anon
    You are being naive, perhaps confused by the media's tendentious use of the word pedophilia. Pedophilia properly refers to sexual interest in pre-pubescent boys or girls. Rare, basically incurable. Interest in young pubescent males (teenagers) is technically ephebophila, (alternatively pederasty) and almost universal among homosexuals. Google "twink". At the time of the catholic priest' bashing the media fudged both terms. (anything under 18 is "underage" after all, and thus "child abuse").

    That is why homos were traditionally seen as corruptors of minors (very young males), not of children, and convicted as such. They prostitute or "party" -- drug and alcohol often paving the way-- with poor, vulnerable teens. Sometimes singly, sometimes they gang up. Such is the case of O. Wilde, Turing and Keynes. The Daily Mail had videos of one such abused by Hollywood recently, I forget get his name.. Egan, Edan, but the depiction of the modus operandi was clear. When these twinks mature, grow up, grow hair, become men, they lose value and are discarded.

    There are two ways of looking at this – teenage boys have agency too. There are working class teenage boys who prostitute themselves, knowing that they have something to sell that gay men want. The money is a LOT better than you could make delivering newspapers or shining shoes. Turing befriended one such teen in the “rough trade” and the teen returned later with his friends to rob Turing’s house. Turing was naive enough to call the cops and the investigation led to his being “outed” for what was then a crime in the UK.

    The reason these kids were “discarded” when they grew up is that many are not gay to begin with – it’s just a means of making easy money to them. I think, like the rest of prostitution, this has declined in the West because men can get sex for free, but it still must go on in places like Thailand.

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  218. @Stan Adams

    That is, they use their power to attempt to corrupt women.
     
    In many of these cases, the women are no more innocent than the men.

    All relationships are power struggles. Everyone uses everyone. A man's sexual desire is a tremendous weakness - a crushing liability - that an attractive, ambitious woman can easily exploit.

    Women lie, you know. They manipulate. They tease. They play games. They come on to men and then claim later that they were coerced. They willingly go to bed with men and then decide the next morning that they were raped.

    When you get to the point where a woman - any woman - can destroy a man's - any man's - career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking "He touched my breast twenty years ago!", then you are treading on very thin ice.

    I'm not saying that guys like Weinstein and Franken shouldn't be taken down. I am saying that giving women more power over men is not necessarily a good thing.

    When you get to the point where a woman – any woman – can destroy a man’s – any man’s – career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking “He touched my breast twenty years ago!”, then you are treading on very thin ice.

    This is our new direct democracy. It wouldn’t be happening/spreading if our society didn’t generally approve of the outcomes. Women have been wanting to out slimy creeps since the beginning of humanity, I’m thinking, and now they have better tools with which to do so.

    Pretty simple, IMO.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    Some men are slimy creeps, yes, but some women are nasty c**ts. And the nasty c**ts are running amok.

    Men need to "man up," but women can keep slutting it up and riding the c**k carousel while demanding to be treated like sweet little innocent lambs, and men can't say anything about it? Is that what you're telling me?

    What makes me wary about this particular situation is the fact that it's mostly men going after adult women who are being outed. They're pathologizing normal male sexuality. When they start going after the homos and the pedos, then maybe I'll start to cheer a little louder.

    Again, don't get me wrong - I'm happy that these assholes are being taken down. I'm just saying that feminism is a big can of worms that, once opened, can lead to very bad outcomes.
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  219. @stillCARealist
    Whose hormones? The baby's or the mother's?

    what about the bonding with Dad problem that gets missed in toddlerhood? That one seems more probable to me.

    And it could be that some of these guys just have too many female hormones in their systems. Bad luck genetics.

    I really doubt the “bonding with Dad” thing. This reminds me of the old attitude toward autism, where they attempted to blame the parents (especially the mother) for not bonding or something. This was really sick because these moms were already suffering with their autistic kid and now the doctor was telling them that it was their own fault.

    If not bonding with Dad was the cause of gayness then half the kids in the ghetto would be gay because there’s no dad around to bond with, but they ain’t.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    If not bonding with Dad was the cause of gayness then half the kids in the ghetto would be gay because there’s no dad around to bond with, but they ain’t.

    I gather multicausal explanations fry your circuits.
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  220. @Intelligent Dasein
    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    Precisely.
    I was close to making the same remark myself, but instead I have been wondering who told Steve to take down his interesting thread on poor Prince Harry.

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  221. @Cato
    Greg Cochrane might be right--it is very hard to think of any cause for homosexuality that increases reproductive fitness, so some kind of pathogen is likely. But is this a disease that causes suffering? In a repressive society, where they throw you off the rooftops, yes. But in today's America? No. So why look for a cure? I mean, gays really know how to party, and all of us might even be a bit envious of the fun they have.

    If you don't like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    If you don’t like gays, just ignore them. Once they are certain of tolerance and acceptance, they will stop being so noisy.

    Seriously? C’mon. iSteve is all about “observing” reality. This is ridiculous. And frankly I get tired of this homosexuals just want to be tolerated bullshit.

    Homosexuals aren’t the least bit into “tolerance”. Given that, they want–they *demand*–acceptance and celebration.

    Look at this Christian baker case the Supreme Court has picked up. The guy doesn’t want to make them a wedding cake cause he’s a bible believing Christian. Do they go over to the next baker–of whom there is no shortage in Denver. Nope, they whine and throw a hissy.

    There are a bunch of cases like this–Christian bakers, photographers, caterers, venue providers, etc. The fags try and find them setup some phony service ask, get rejected … and sue and sick the cops on them. It’s the fag einsatzgruppen, hunting down and shooting any dissenters.

    Tolerance? Live and let live? You’ve got to be kidding.

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    • Replies: @Cato
    The gays I know are pretty paranoid. Why did they oppose Trump? It wasn't because they don't want tax cuts (many are affluent), and it wasn't because they are so eager to continue the social promotion of blacks (they know blacks hate them), or because they want continued illegal immigration (they could care less). They are worried about the rollback of the gains they made over the last decade.

    When they no longer worry, they will become less noisy. That probably requires that people like you become less noisy.

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  222. @Daniel H
    >>“Just look at what happened to the NYC Opera – had an insane amount of money and it went bankrupt in just a few years”

    The contracts for the trade unions are absolutely ridiculous, same as at Carnegie Hall. Stage hands earn $200-$300 thousand dollars, and even more. When living in New York, I would attend a few concerts at Carnegie and the Met per year. Somehow they got my phone number and their fund raisers would harangue me for donations. I must have received 5 calls per year from them. One time I explained patiently that I only earned about $25K per year, and I was content to pay whatever admission they charged for an event, but no way would I donate to their institution. I suggested that if they needed funding the first thing they should do is take on the trade unions. The calls stopped.

    confirmed. My husband has tax clients who work as stage hands in NYC and make huge sums. Much more than the performers. Unions.

    Also, he has clients who work as waiters in expensive restaurants. They make well north of 100k a year with their tips. No unions.

    Something to think about when helping kids decide on a career.

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  223. @Diversity Heretic
    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it. If hormonal levels could be monitored and proper adjustments made, future generations might well be spared the scourge of homosexuality.

    My theory has been hormonal imbalances in utero, especially for male homosexuals, who seem much more compulsive about it.

    Realist, that’s been my default theory–if forced to have one–since reading a Psychology Today article back in the 70s. I still think some sort of hormone problem–mother’s hormones interfering with child’s?–during some critical stage of embryonic brain development might be the direct culprit. The fraternal birth order effect–enhanced chance of homosexuality as boy’s mother has had more previous male offspring–lends credence to these sorts of speculations.

    But even if this is the case, there’s still the question of causation. What hormone interference or breakdown is happening? Why is it happening in these pregnancies and not others? Why is happening to this woman and not others?

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  224. @jimbo
    I honestly think that was one of the main reasons why "Hamilton" is such a monster hit. Get rid of the overt faggotry, and the tourists will come to your show...

    I agree. HamilTon has high T. Sexy, power-hungry, high-energy dude-fest that it is, it is also has great rhymes and music (IMHO of course).

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  225. @Vinteuil
    "Levine’s version of the New World Symphony is the best by far."

    Wha-huh?

    It's workmanlike, I guess - but it's up against some pretty stiff competition: Reiner ('57), Walter, Szell & Silvestri ('59), Stokowski ('73), and above all, Václav Talich ('54).

    They’re all excellent, but the key moment of the symphony is around the middle of second movement, and all the others miss what Levine got.

    Others got the seas, mountains, rivers, and trees but only Levine got the flower.

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  226. @Pat Boyle
    The two conductors I referred to in my original post - Levine and Bernstein - were both gay and both Jews. Being Ashkenazi Jews they were both smart. So there is a nexus of connections here.

    About two and half to three percent of all men are gay - if the statistics can be believed. The popularity of classical music is declining but is still probably well above three percent. It is well established that more intelligent people prefer classical music but the so called "Mozart Effect" eg. Babies become smarter when the hear Mozart in the crib - is a silly myth.

    I have my own theory for all this based on my own life experiences. I think smart people often listen to classical musical genres because they tend to be self directed whereas less smart people merely follow current trends. I stopped listening to pop music when I was twenty or twenty one. That's why I know nothing of pop music after the Beatles.

    I decided that if I was to live only once I should try to surround myself with the best things available. It was clear that pop music hits were created by repetition on the radio. I didn't want an important part of my life to be determined by some disk jockey who received payola. Everything I read told me that there was a whole rich world of music that never got on the Top 40 but had been important for centuries. I decided to learn Bach and Mozart. The real Mozart Effect is that if you listen to Mozart's instrumental and vocal music it becomes hard to listen to Rap, Rock and Roll or Country and Western.

    ” The real Mozart Effect is that if you listen to Mozart’s instrumental and vocal music it becomes hard to listen to Rap, Rock and Roll or Country”

    Look I studied classical flute performance in Germany , at a “Musikhochschule” for four years, from 1982 to 1986, having worked up the two Mozart flute Concertos, in G and D to performance level, and went through Bach’s and Teleman’s flute creations , plus Debussey, Pergolesi, Vivaldi, and several other Baroque, and romance era masters.

    Aside from this (personal) endeavor, I have been performing Jazz, last gig yesterday, since the fifties, and regarding “Pop” music : I am a Beatles fan, a Country fan, and I despise “Rap”, the worst cultural abberation to ever come out of the USA.

    I worship at the thrones of Charlie Parker and Chet Baker, and I know this will sound scurillous and rediculous: I like ABBA.

    Duke (Ellington, for uninitiated) stated : there only two kinds of music = “good and bad”.

    PS : My flute ( Italian) professor, a consumate artist, liked Country, and did not speak a word of english.

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Calm down. Did I write anything about Jazz?
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  227. @dfordoom

    Gay males have the same sex drives as straight males, so there is an equivalency.
     
    No they don't. Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men. To a degree that almost defies belief. To a certain extent that's the defining characteristic of male homosexuality - an insanely overactive sex drive.

    Gay males probably harass teenage boys at the same rate that straight males harass teenage girls.
     
    An interest in underage girls is not particularly common among heterosexual men. An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men.

    This "equivalency" idea is one of the big lies that we've been told. Homosexual men are not remotely similar to heterosexual men in any way. Sexually and emotionally they are entirely different.

    “Homosexual men are infinitely more obsessed with sex than any heterosexual men.”

    The single greatest work of art ever created by the minds of men (and a pair of thoroughly heterosexual men, at that) begs to differ:

    Madamina, il catalogo è questo
    Delle belle che amò il padron mio;
    un catalogo egli è che ho fatt’io;
    Osservate, leggete con me.

    In Italia seicento e quaranta;
    In Alemagna duecento e trentuna;
    Cento in Francia, in Turchia novantuna;
    Ma in Ispagna son già mille e tre.

    V’han fra queste contadine,
    Cameriere, cittadine,
    V’han contesse, baronesse,
    Marchesane, principesse.
    E v’han donne d’ogni grado,
    D’ogni forma, d’ogni età.

    Nella bionda egli ha l’usanza
    Di lodar la gentilezza,
    Nella bruna la costanza,
    Nella bianca la dolcezza.

    Vuol d’inverno la grassotta,
    Vuol d’estate la magrotta;
    È la grande maestosa,
    La piccina è ognor vezzosa.

    Delle vecchie fa conquista
    Pel piacer di porle in lista;
    Sua passion predominante
    È la giovin principiante.

    Non si picca – se sia ricca,
    Se sia brutta, se sia bella;
    Purché porti la gonnella,
    Voi sapete quel che fa.

    Don Giovanni, Act 1, No. 4

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Mozart's operatic masterpiece! I had read somewhere a long time ago that the man who penned those words for Mozart, Lorenzo da Ponte, was homosexual but in point of fact he was a skirt chaser with few peers.
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  228. @anonguy

    When you get to the point where a woman – any woman – can destroy a man’s – any man’s – career and reputation simply by pointing at him and shrieking “He touched my breast twenty years ago!”, then you are treading on very thin ice.
     
    This is our new direct democracy. It wouldn't be happening/spreading if our society didn't generally approve of the outcomes. Women have been wanting to out slimy creeps since the beginning of humanity, I'm thinking, and now they have better tools with which to do so.

    Pretty simple, IMO.

    Some men are slimy creeps, yes, but some women are nasty c**ts. And the nasty c**ts are running amok.

    Men need to “man up,” but women can keep slutting it up and riding the c**k carousel while demanding to be treated like sweet little innocent lambs, and men can’t say anything about it? Is that what you’re telling me?

    What makes me wary about this particular situation is the fact that it’s mostly men going after adult women who are being outed. They’re pathologizing normal male sexuality. When they start going after the homos and the pedos, then maybe I’ll start to cheer a little louder.

    Again, don’t get me wrong – I’m happy that these assholes are being taken down. I’m just saying that feminism is a big can of worms that, once opened, can lead to very bad outcomes.

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  229. Since reading this (and the comments) I have discovered that a film has just come out which is a celebration of what Levine and company are now being pilloried for. It is entitled “Call me by your name” and is already winning prizes. A critic named Rex Reed calls it “A heartbreaking masterpiece”.

    So I go and read the Wiki synopsis: The protagonists are male; one is in his twenties, the other is 17. This “masterpiece” features, I read, actions like masturbating into a sliced-open peach.
    I read no further, and adjust any idea I might have had of going to see it.

    A year or two from now, the negative views expressed here about pederasty will be illegal, at least in the ruined land I live in once known as Great Britain.

    Oh, I almost forgot: they are both identified as Jews in the film. Words fail, expect it looks like art is imitating life this time around.

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    • Replies: @BB753
    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a Jew jerking off into a potted plant— forever."

    Gorge Orwell, 1984

    Oops, it seems he was jerking off into a chef's pot! Then it's ok, I guess!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4986700/amp/Harvey-Weinstein-masturbate-pot-not-plant.html
    , @anonymous
    Reed is a faygala, so consider the source. Presume this movie was made before the Spacey revelations. What, o what, are they thinking out there in Tinseltown?
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  230. @Intelligent Dasein
    Maybe everyone ought to just give up the notion that everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    Nobody (I mean, literally, nobody) thinks that “everything can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.”

    ‘Cause there’s nobody smart enough to understand what the phrase “reproductive fitness” means who’s also stupid enough to believe that it can explain “everything.”

    There are, on the other hand, plenty of guys who seem to believe that *nothing* can be explained in terms of reproductive fitness.

    Are you one of those guys?

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    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    No he's not.

    He is saying "whoa, hold on a minute" to those who are happy to entertain absurd theories like the one Jack D seems, surprisingly, to defend.

    He is saying we don't, we really don't, have to strain every muscle to find a plausible "reproductive fitness" explanation for something like homosexuality.

    He's saying maybe we should look elsewhere.

    I don't know where he'd look, but I'll look to the ancients, and agree with them that it is all a matter of choice.
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  231. @Daniel H
    I have always seen Classical music conducting and creating as a macho business. The great conductors and composers being commanding, intimidating martinets. I guess a few gays filter in. But have any of the truly greats been gay? Don't mention Levin or Bernstein. A lot of their success may have been due to skillful networking. Anybody have any ideas on this? For example, how many rock gods are gay? How many impressive country or jazz artists have been gay? Not too many.

    “How many impressive country or Jazz artists have been gay? Not too many”

    A few, but as you say “Not too many”. One of the current top Jazz pianists is openly gay.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained U S Army Vet, and pro jazz musician.

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  232. @Steve Sailer
    "An interest in underage boys is practically universal among homosexual men."

    I doubt it. Perhaps pederasty is more common among more masculine men who engage in homosexual activity. For example, Afghan war