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And Then They Came for "Mad Men's" Matthew Weiner ...
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From the Chicago Tribune:

Former ‘Mad Men’ writer accuses Matthew Weiner of sexual harassment

Former “Mad Men” writer Kater Gordon has accused series creator Matthew Weiner of making a sexually charged remark to her while she worked on the series.

According to a report published Thursday by the Information, Gordon alleges while working together late one night in 2008, Weiner said she owed it to him to let him see her naked. A PR rep for Weiner reiterated the statement he gave to the Information: “He does not remember saying this comment nor does it reflect a comment he would say to any colleague.”

Okay, but both of you do realize, don’t you, that the show you were working on, Mad Men, was basically a softcore porn soap opera?

Granted, it had nice nostalgic camera work and art direction. And it was adept at pushing the buttons of women in the media in the 21st Century in ways that their college majors hadn’t quite prepared them to understand. But still … the basic point of the show was to depict office colleagues making sexually charged remarks to each other and then encourage the audience to gossip about it, as in this 2009 Gawker story:

Why Did Matthew Weiner Fire Mad Men’s Kater Gordon?

Did life imitate art or art imitate life? Perhaps it shouldn’t be too surprising by this point that that’s a common question?

It’s not like Weiner pretended all that hard to be a feminist. As I wrote in Taki’s Magazine in 2009:

Weiner, who has a wife and four sons, is at least aware, however, that he finds feminism a hoax. (This same heresy added interest to the 1980s television serial about the advertising business, thirtysomething, which was created by two otherwise liberal Jewish family men, Ed Zwick and Marshall Herskovitz.)

Consider the interview in Variety in which Weiner is asked a standard question: “How much of the show’s take on gender roles is rooted in your own upbringing as someone born in 1965?” In response, he wanders around for 867 words trying to explain, without being so lucid that gets himself Larry Summersized, that he’s learned—the hard way—that feminism is flapdoodle. In his strained verbiage, though, there’s one cogent sentence that explains much of Mad Men’s appeal to contemporary women:

“What’s sexist in the office is fuel in the bedroom.”

The ism that actually energizes Matthew Weiner, the one that one helps him get up in the morning is anti-gentilism. As he explained in numerous interviews in 2015, what Mad Men is really about is all the anti-Semitism that he was the victim of while growing up in the vicinity of the Hollywood Hills in the 1970s and 1980s. Finally wreaking vengeance upon those anti-Semites infesting Coldwater Canyon who wouldn’t let the Weiners join their country club is what motivates him. I wrote several blog posts analyzing the interviews Weiner gave because they were rather illuminating about one of the more influential mythmakers of the 21st Century:

Matthew Weiner on How “Mad Men” Is Driven by His Resentment of WASP Country Clubs

Matthew Weiner Explains “Mad Men” Is About “White Power”

Mad Man

Matthew Weiner Gets Worked Up Over Country Clubs Some More

Flight from White: Matthew Weiner Thinks Jews Are “Of Color”

Reforming Stuyvesant HS Admissions: Should Blacks & Whites Team Up Against Asian Grinds?

 
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  1. guest says:

    Don’t we usually save the term “accused” for such things as crimes? He has been “accused” of making a charged comment. Big deal.

    Men in the workplace want to see certain women in the workplace nude. Big surprise.

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    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Elmer T. Jones
    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren't that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues. And of course the women spend a huge effort getting dolled up for work precisely to pique male interest and to inflict consternation among their female rivals.

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused "the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don't look so good."

    This latest public outrage over male-on-female harassment needs to include a discussion on female beauty privilege and women's complicity in instigating bumbling sexual entreaties from their befuddled male co-workers.
    , @theMann
    And women in the workplace...well:



    The business at my part time weekend job now has cameras covering every nook and cranny of the building interior, at considerable expense. For the simple reason that we once had a female employee who went out of her way to sleep with every married man at that place of business, or shine on every married man she wasn't attracted to, and then in your face their wives about it while filing sexual harassment charges. I was at work twice when wives came up to confront her.


    The reality is that if your business has as many as (as few as?) ten female employees, at least one of them is going to be a grade A sexual predator looking to create as much chaos and harm as possible, to as many people as possible. But of course, we only hold men accountable for their behavior, and that is 100% of why our civilization is collapsing.
    , @Forbes
    Are we sure Weiner wasn't just trying out dialogue from the show to see how it played out...
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  2. guest says:

    I have posted about this before, but I’m still surprised they didn’t have the “white shoe” advertising firm of Sterling Cooper be taken over or superseded by formerly underdoggish Jews. They built up a good vehicle for their eventual creative takeover with the character Ginsberg, but he went crazy. Probably that would’ve been too on the nose, anyway.

    Instead, the firm was eaten up by boorish, much more crudely sexual harassing, soulless, stupid, empty, corporate Black Irish thugs. As they said on the show, they were a “shirtsleeves operation.” So long, perfectly stylish Don Draper.

    It wasn’t all bad, because the show nodded to the true charms of the pre-dirty hippy era. The clothes, hair, and decor were nice, if nothing else.

    But the overall message was that within every well-groomed and mannered WASP captain of industry is a wild id who only got where he is by committing desertion and stealing someone else’s identity.

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    • LOL: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    "Instead, the firm was eaten up by boorish, much more crudely sexual harassing, soulless, stupid, empty, corporate Black Irish thugs."

    I've just finished reading "Blue Blood & Mutiny: The Fight for the Soul of Morgan Stanley" about the power struggle which ensued after the merger between Morgan Stanley and Dean Witter Discover (spinoff from Sears and headed by Irish Catholic son of a Scandinavian Mormon mother Phil Purcell.)

    A theme of the book was that there was a Catholic (and largely Irish Catholic) cabal around Purcell which was running the now merged firm into the ground. The old guard (which eventually regained control) had their own favorite Catholics (one of whom replaced Purcell when the battle was won.)

    Interestingly, although firm performance under Purcell was mediocre, he stayed away from subprime mortage backed securities. In the period between the resolution of the above noted power struggle in late 2005 and the 2007 - 2008 financial crisis, Morgan Stanley made heavy bets on subprime mortgages just like the other firms. They eventually merged with somebody, I think Smith Barney.
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  3. Clyde says:

    Mad Men. The first season was stupendous. How about The Kodak Carousel scene? Years ago I read the first was the best because they brought in female writers afterwards, partly to bring down production costs. The women being paid less so they could spend more on 60s era furnishings and tchotchkes.

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    • Replies: @guest
    The Carousel scene shall be a classic, like Sam and Diane slapping eachother. I used to wonder why they couldn't do anything as good as that again, but I suppose things like that are a fluke.
    , @Almost Missouri
    Agree that the early episodes had their moments, but it quickly became apparent that the show was just a meandering soft-R soap opera without any point, meaning or relevance.

    Remember the source on that female writer thing?
    , @anonymous
    Hmm, pretty stilted. No one speaks like this, nor would a handful of Type A men silently through such a presentation.

    From what I (dimly) recall, the lauded shows of the Seventies and Eighties - e.g., Rockford Files, St. Elsewhere, later Barney Miller - seemed more like the interaction of real humans. And even that was pretty fluffy stuff.

    TV may be the worst of the mass culture media. If this has been the peak since I last watched, no regrets about chucking the tube decades ago.

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  4. guest says:
    @Clyde
    Mad Men. The first season was stupendous. How about The Kodak Carousel scene? Years ago I read the first was the best because they brought in female writers afterwards, partly to bring down production costs. The women being paid less so they could spend more on 60s era furnishings and tchotchkes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRDUFpsHus

    The Carousel scene shall be a classic, like Sam and Diane slapping eachother. I used to wonder why they couldn’t do anything as good as that again, but I suppose things like that are a fluke.

    Read More
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  5. IHTG says:

    Do we need to bring in PLEASUREMAN again to chide Steve for his anti-Mad Men boomerism

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    • Replies: @19491950
    Steve might have had a nice word or even two for Roger Ebert. The ultimate sin.
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  6. 19491950 says:

    Is Robert Evans still alive?

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Yes, Robert Evans is 87. I imagine somebody at the LA Times drew his name in case things slow down for awhile.
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  7. 19491950 says:
    @IHTG
    Do we need to bring in PLEASUREMAN again to chide Steve for his anti-Mad Men boomerism

    Steve might have had a nice word or even two for Roger Ebert. The ultimate sin.

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  8. @19491950
    Is Robert Evans still alive?

    Yes, Robert Evans is 87. I imagine somebody at the LA Times drew his name in case things slow down for awhile.

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  9. Steve,

    So Weiner knows that 2nd & 3rd wave feminism is just radical Jewish anti-goyim anti-family subversive ethnic warfare. Doesn’t stop him from using it as a cudgel against the cis hetero HUWHYTE male.

    But how much else of “Mad Men” is another example of Jewish projection of their own “Ordeal of Civility” onto WASP culture.

    Don Draper, is really just what Weiner imagines what he would be if had Jon Hamm’s looks.

    Knowing what I know now, I can’t believe I wasted my time on watching that crap.

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    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I gave it a try for a few episodes. But, knowing what I knew (knewing what I know) about the show's agenda, I couldn't stomach it for very long.
    , @guest
    "But how much else of 'Mad Men' is just another example of Jewish projection of their own 'Ordeal of Civility' onto WASP culture"

    James O'Meara published a book called End of an Era: Mad Men and the Ordeal of Civility arguing just that. I get the impetus to take an attractive, successfully, well-groomed early-60s white suburban couple like the Drapers--who appear to have emerged from an advertisement of the era--amd show how their real lives fell short of the image. But think of the mindset behind taking characters like that and dragging them through the mud like the did. It's gross. So much of Serious Hollywood is just sordid. You almost have to think there's an agenda behind it, or the writers are messed up and honestly assume everyone else is, too.

    I never understood why they needed the gimmick of Don being a fraud and waiting for people to find out. Smoking and boozing Madison Ave. 1960, with colorful fashion magazine style, isn't a fruitful enough premise? You need to show how WASP America was fraudulent once again?

    O'Meara, as I recall, pinpoints Mad Men's "jump the shark" moment to when the firm prostitutes busty office manager Joan out so they can land the Jaguar account. His point being that the partners at that kind of firm would never have allowed it. I don't know about that, but to be fair the show presents Don Draper as opposed to the deal. They do it behind his back.

    That happens the season before Draper falls apart, becomes a full-blown alcoholic, and indirectly causes the firm to lose its independence in a merger with a bigger fish. Then he goes on a cross-country journey to "find himself," or whatever. And at the end, just when I was afraid he was going to have a truly silly enlightened moment the Esalen retreat, the show ends brilliantly by giving Don the inspiration to steal hippy sentiment to sell Coca-Cola by creating the "I'd like to teach the world to sing" commercial.

    One thing I have to hand to the show, despite showing for instance how the Bad Old Days were rectified by feminine progress and removing cigarettes and non-stop drinking from the workplace, it was never on board with the hippies.
    , @Opinionator
    Please elaborate. What do you know now that you didn't previously? Why do you view Mad Men as a waste of time?
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  10. @Clyde
    Mad Men. The first season was stupendous. How about The Kodak Carousel scene? Years ago I read the first was the best because they brought in female writers afterwards, partly to bring down production costs. The women being paid less so they could spend more on 60s era furnishings and tchotchkes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRDUFpsHus

    Agree that the early episodes had their moments, but it quickly became apparent that the show was just a meandering soft-R soap opera without any point, meaning or relevance.

    Remember the source on that female writer thing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Sorry, I wish I could remember. He said this around season 4. Mad Men got worse, more soapy each season as it "addressed women's issues." (lulz) What was that about lefties, libs, gays and women taking over-hijacking every org and foundation unless it is explicitly conservative?
    , @Colleen Pater
    If you watch carefully all shows no matter how reactionary eventually morph into soap opera. NYPD blue perhaps one of the most reactionary ever certainly for its time ( you have to exclude first season revolving around the redhead) it goes on for years with hardboiled racist, sexist, chauvinist positive, plots then eventually collapses into preachy PC over soap opera plots in the last season or two. All shows do this like clockwork.some just survive a bit longer than others
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  11. kihowi says:

    Get it yet, men? If you’re not sexually aggressive, you won’t get laid, and if you do, the woman will forever have the power to ruin your life. Hope that orgasm is worth it.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It's amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won't go wrong even after 3,000 years.
    , @27 year old

    Get it yet, men? If you’re not sexually aggressive, you won’t get laid, and if you do, the woman will forever have the power to ruin your life. Hope that orgasm is worth it.
     
    I'm not sure if you're reading this in the merchant voice or if you're serious...

    Don't blackpill, our guys don't need any more reasons to give up.

    People get laid all the time with women who are perfectly happy about it and will never try to "ruin your life.
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  12. Jack D says:

    Weiner actually said that! OMG! He’ll never work in this town again! Take Mad Men off of Netflix and burn all the negatives!

    We are rapidly reaching the stage of farce. In 19XX, Celebrity Y accidentally brushed against my arm as he was passing me in the hallway. In 19ZZ, Celebrity K told me, in reference to a dress I was wearing, “that color looks good on you.” In 19YY, Celebrity B patted me on the shoulder once as I was blocking a doorway and said, “excuse me I need to get by.” Behead them all!

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    • Replies: @anonymous
    Methinks that we past the level of farce awhile back. We're now into the realm of WWF/Saturday morning cartoons. Eventually no one will take this stuff seriously anymore. Which is unfortunate because, believe it or not, there are some guys out there who are what used to be called in a more elegant age "cads." If we reach that point, blame the Feminazis and their male large "L" Liberal allies who wanted it both ways. Thus on the one hand it's ok for someone like JayLo could wear a dress as tight as a rubber band and shake the ol' booty. Just remember: don't touch. Then again, wanting it both ways is typically American--and the reason why, as a society, we have become so f**ked up.
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  13. Jack D says:

    The sets and costumes were fun but I honestly never understood the appeal. The entire premise of assumed identity was very soap opera-ish right from the start and failed the basis “suspension of disbelief” test. I think the idea was supposed to be we were supposed to watch these awful people smoking and drinking and saying sexist things and we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them. Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.

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    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Bill
    The Office was pretty realistic.
    , @Forbes

    we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them.
     
    It was definitely projecting today's perspective on morality/values/ethics back on to the '60s, so today's "woke" generation can feel morally superior to (their parents/grandparents) fifty years ago.

    The appeal was self-satisfied ego flattery.
    , @Daniel H
    The entire show was a 7 year, 100 episode rip off of a cool 2 hour 1960 melodrama, "The Apartment", starring Fred MacMurray, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

    The Apartment had a more realistic portrayal of 1960s office culture and office villain in the role of Jeff Sheldrake (Fred MacMurray). Of course, being a 1960s film (came out in 1960, so really a 50s film) we needed a morally uplifting ending where Jack Lemon's character turns Shirley MacLaine's character into an honest woman, but Mad Men had it's own "uplifting" sentimental bullshit ending with that Coke commercial.

    Steve has said that he doesn't really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He's right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    Two other cool movies of 1960s business culture (Sleepers, as they are referred to by critics) are 1) King Murray (1969) and 2) Salesman (1969) by the Maysles brothers. Very good, very interesting view of a past that many of us lived through. No glamour except the lure of money in both of these, which is what business is fundamentally about.

    , @guest
    "takeovers and other exciting events that happened once in a lifetime would happen every week"

    Mad Men had a storytelling style similar to the epiphanic style of modern literature. A common complaint of people not "into" the show was that "nothing happens." Which was partly them not paying attention, but partly true. It wasn't plot-heavy, even when it went all "we need to do this and this to land the big client!" It was more about mood, character development (usually in the direction of being more icky), and so forth.

    But they wanted to entertain people, so things did happen. It's just that they had them happen all at once, with Big, Shocking events. There was an episode where Don and his boss, Roger, have a low-key rivalry going on. They have a 12-martini lunch with oysters, despite Roger's ulcer. Then they discover the elevator is out, and the more youthful Draper springs ahead upstairs. He wins when Roger graphically throws lunch up in front of clients when he arrives at the office.

    An entire season of Don Draper and Duck Philips kinda not liking eachother blows up when, first, Duck finagles a merger with an English company. We think Don's doomed in an episode with the Cuban Missle Crisis as background, but then it turns out he doesn't have a contract and the English get rid of Duck instead of him. Granted, I think they subtly set up the fact that Don was contract-free earlier, but really it's kinda cheating to have the final confrontation begin and end in the space of like two seconds at a conference table with unflappable Don not being flapped at all.

    They went the other way, later, when Don has been backed into a corner due to his carelessness and alcoholism. The other partners can't fire him without buying out his contract, which they don't want to do. So they sit him down in the conference room and dictate a litany of do's and don'ts he must follow upon penalty of forfeiting his share in the company. When they're done, you expect a confrontation, but he's just like, "Okay." That's the UN-shocking big scene.

    The most ridiculous example, probably, is why a guy got his foot run over by a lawnmower in the office. It more or less comes out of nowhere, and happens to a character introduced that episode apparently for that purpose.

    All of which, I think, was to forestall complaints about nothing happening, so that they could continue to tell their plot-light, low-key, moody character-driven stories. It's not my preferred style. Whatever happened to tv shows where episodes actually tell their own stories, with beginning, middles, and ends? What's Don up to this week? Oh, this is the one where he has to land the Graxerson account while his wife has the in-laws over and the dog has the flu.
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  14. 19491950 says:

    What about Iggy Pop? What about all the rock stars who have gone gold and platinum? Dustin Hoffman was a movie star……. but where are the rock stars? Are they next?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mike Zwick
    They went after Jimmy Page years ago. He was sort of ahead of his time: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/the-10-wildest-led-zeppelin-legends-fact-checked-20121121/jimmy-page-dated-a-14-year-old-girl-while-he-was-in-led-zeppelin-19691231
    , @Pericles
    Billy Joel could be waiting in the wings.
    , @Anon
    Rock musicians, on average, don't look like Harvey Weinstein or Weinstein's kind. They tend to become famous when they're in their twenties and in their better-looking years, and on the whole, they attract just enough women genuinely interested in having sex with them that they don't seem to resort to sexual harassment for power-trip reasons. In fact, if you look at guys like John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, and Elliott Smith, they're just as likely to end up being victimized by manipulative and sociopathic women (Yoko Ono, Courtney Love, Jennifer Chiba).

    Also, most rock musicians aren't Jews. However, some Jewish musicians have a reputation for being massive jerks to the people around them: Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Gene Simmons, Paul Simon, Barbra Streisand, Art Garfunkel, Amy Winehouse, Phil Spector, the above-mentioned Courtney Love, etc.

    One man well-known in the classical music world for being a full-blown sexual harasser was Leonard Bernstein. He groped everybody, male or female, according to the gossip.
    , @Anonymous
    Iggy was the origin of that couplet, "rock out with your cock out". Ig showed that snake every night for years and unlike Jim Morrison never got busted for it.

    It's big by any standard, but because the rest of him is so scrawny it takes on mammoth visual connotations.
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  15. whorefinder says: • Website

    The lure of Mad Men was four fold:

    -Nostalgia trip for boomers
    -Women got to publicly scream “Egads!” at the sexism while being secretly/not-so-secretly turned on by it. e.g. Dom Draper became a sex symbol.
    -Lefty men got to spout off about how “woke” we’ve become.
    -All those people in Hollywood who came from advertising/worked in commercials could have a TV show that lauded them instead of making fun of their careers as cheap salesmen. (This has happened before; one of the default careers for men in rom coms and comedies in general seems to be advertising, e.g. The Out-of-Towners).

    I didn’t like the Mad Men; the episodes seemed to be designed to paint all that former culture as “evil” and today as good, and seemed very didactic and after-school-specialy the few times I watched (“racism is bad, mmkay?” “those poor oppressed women!”). It was interesting to watch them experience new technology that today is old hat, if only because our kids and grandkids will do it to us one day WRT the internet and smartphones and whatever comes next.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    -All those people in Hollywood who came from advertising/worked in commercials could have a TV show that lauded them instead of making fun of their careers as cheap salesmen. (This has happened before; one of the default careers for men in rom coms and comedies in general seems to be advertising, e.g. The Out-of-Towners).
     
    Yes, that's true. In those old 60s sex-comedies, it seems like the men always worked in advertising or publishing. And advertising was always painted as a glamorous career. Perhaps because a lot of writers got their start as ad-men.
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  16. Jack D says:

    More background on Weiner and Kater:

    http://deadline.com/2009/10/recent-emmy-winning-young-female-writer-loses-her-job-on-mad-men-17203/

    The “you owe it to me” must be in reference to the fact that he hired Kater as a personal assistant (aka secretary) and eventually promoted her to writer.

    Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women, as in Saudi Arabia, and that way no man could ever insult the honor of our blushing virgins again.

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    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I can't imagine actually wanting to see that woman without clothing.
    , @Dave from Oz

    @16 Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women,

     

    Or make em dress neck to wrist, the way that men have to.
    , @Johann Ricke

    Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.
     
    But isn't this true of any TV program or work of entertainment these days? Scripts used to be slow-paced - faster and more implausible than real life, but not by an order of magnitude. Not any more. They're now all Indiana Jones-type roller coaster rides, without the special effects.
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  17. Clyde says:
    @Almost Missouri
    Agree that the early episodes had their moments, but it quickly became apparent that the show was just a meandering soft-R soap opera without any point, meaning or relevance.

    Remember the source on that female writer thing?

    Sorry, I wish I could remember. He said this around season 4. Mad Men got worse, more soapy each season as it “addressed women’s issues.” (lulz) What was that about lefties, libs, gays and women taking over-hijacking every org and foundation unless it is explicitly conservative?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sammler
    That’s Conquest’s Second Law, but has nothing to do with the decline of Mad Men. It is an immutable law of television that all long-running shows morph into soap operas.
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  18. But still … the basic point of the show was to depict office colleagues making sexually charged remarks to each other and then encourage the audience to gossip about it

    The unrestrained smoking and drinking are far more titillating than the sex in today’s puritan environment. The reason most people loved the show, at least at first, is the glimpse into the freedom men still had in the late 1950s-early 1960s. We are supposed to sneer at the men, but I suspect most viewers found Don Draper and Roger Sterling a lot more compelling than Peggy Olson.

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    • Agree: Forbes
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  19. @guest
    Don't we usually save the term "accused" for such things as crimes? He has been "accused" of making a charged comment. Big deal.

    Men in the workplace want to see certain women in the workplace nude. Big surprise.

    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren’t that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues. And of course the women spend a huge effort getting dolled up for work precisely to pique male interest and to inflict consternation among their female rivals.

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused “the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don’t look so good.”

    This latest public outrage over male-on-female harassment needs to include a discussion on female beauty privilege and women’s complicity in instigating bumbling sexual entreaties from their befuddled male co-workers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AndrewR

    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren’t that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues.
     
    Most people in general "aren't that hot." If not-that-hot guys only saved their sexual advances for indeed-that-hot ladies, then a lot more people would be virginal, or at least involuntarily celibate, and a lot fewer babies would be born. While this wouldn't necessarily be all that bad, most fives are going to end up with fours-sixes, most 7s will end up with 6s-8s, etc. In a society without arranged marriages and with relative economic equality between the sexes, few people will end up with anyone outside of their own league in the sexual marketplace.
    , @Jack D
    How does your friend look in a bathing suit? We expect impossible beauty standards based on what we see online, on TV and film, in magazines, etc. The women you see in the media are top 1% in looks (and nowadays in lack of obesity). This is like saying that your office softball team doesn't play as well as the Dodgers.

    Women dress to excite the envy of other women and attract the attention of alphas. If they attract the attention of betas and below, their unwelcome attention has to be swatted down. What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male "harassers" meet the alpha test - they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below - fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?
    , @whorefinder

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused “the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don’t look so good.”
     
    Environment matters. When a woman's one of the few females around, she looks hot. Amongst a sea of younger, in shape women at a water park, she doesn't. Women understand this, and when they want to feel pretty deliberately try to get into male-dominated environments.

    Many feminist-types are homely women desiring to "break into the boys club" because they secretly think they can snag a bf or husband by being the only meat around. Other office girls are sluts looking to maximize male attention.

    We had a plain jane in my office once, but she was young and in-shape, and so was garnering attention. She started dressing more and more provocatively to get more attention. Then I saw her out once on the weekend amongst a sea of normal women and she was definitely right in the middle looks wise; it broke the spell, and I stopped having an office crush on her.
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  20. @19491950
    What about Iggy Pop? What about all the rock stars who have gone gold and platinum? Dustin Hoffman was a movie star....... but where are the rock stars? Are they next?
    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrqMdja4eYs

    Robert Plant bad behavior -----> art

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    Jimmy Page is protected by dark forces and therefore untouchable!
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    You mean like thirty years ago.

    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beastieboys/thenewstyle.html

    If I played guitar I'd be Jimmy Page
    The girlie's I like are underage Check it!
     
    Steve,

    You have the wrong song. The Led Zeppelin song written by Robert Plant and inspired by the teen groupies they would meet at Rodney Bingenheimer's English Disco on the Sunset Strip was Sick Again.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_Again
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Bingenheimer%27s_English_Disco

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcEqU4Bmo64
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  21. AndrewR says:
    @Elmer T. Jones
    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren't that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues. And of course the women spend a huge effort getting dolled up for work precisely to pique male interest and to inflict consternation among their female rivals.

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused "the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don't look so good."

    This latest public outrage over male-on-female harassment needs to include a discussion on female beauty privilege and women's complicity in instigating bumbling sexual entreaties from their befuddled male co-workers.

    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren’t that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues.

    Most people in general “aren’t that hot.” If not-that-hot guys only saved their sexual advances for indeed-that-hot ladies, then a lot more people would be virginal, or at least involuntarily celibate, and a lot fewer babies would be born. While this wouldn’t necessarily be all that bad, most fives are going to end up with fours-sixes, most 7s will end up with 6s-8s, etc. In a society without arranged marriages and with relative economic equality between the sexes, few people will end up with anyone outside of their own league in the sexual marketplace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @BB753
    "In a society without arranged marriages and with relative economic equality between the sexes, few people will end up with anyone outside of their own league in the sexual marketplace."

    In a society without arranged marriages and no restrictions on women's sexuality, few people will end up married, period.
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  22. AndrewR says:
    @Jack D
    More background on Weiner and Kater:

    http://deadline.com/2009/10/recent-emmy-winning-young-female-writer-loses-her-job-on-mad-men-17203/

    The "you owe it to me" must be in reference to the fact that he hired Kater as a personal assistant (aka secretary) and eventually promoted her to writer.

    Also note Weiner looking down Kater's dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women, as in Saudi Arabia, and that way no man could ever insult the honor of our blushing virgins again.

    I can’t imagine actually wanting to see that woman without clothing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Are you gay?

    http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/e5426757be42466dbfef3ce2862b7061/baftala-7th-annual-tv-tea-party-btwtk8.jpg

    She's not a model, but she's attractive enough.
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  23. Tulip says:

    Well, that’s a pile of shit. Guy makes one off-color remark in a plausibly deniable “jest” late at night after a long day’s work and that is “repeated and unwanted sexual advances”, e.g. sexual harassment?

    Read More
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  24. George says:

    She was consistently employed until Mad Men in 09. So I guess “You’ll never work in this town again is true.”

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1958815/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonah
    "Consistently employed." Look at her credits. She was consistently employed as a coffee fetcher.

    Then she became Matt Weiner's coffee fetcher. Then he let her be a staff writer to fill out the staff with enough women because he thought he could trust her to not be a problem. Whoops.

    Then he stuck her name on one of his scripts. Which then won the Emmy.

    Then she was an ingrate in public. Then he fired her.

    And she still can't write. She never could. So now she is out of the business because no way can she go back to fetching coffee.
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  25. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Clyde
    Mad Men. The first season was stupendous. How about The Kodak Carousel scene? Years ago I read the first was the best because they brought in female writers afterwards, partly to bring down production costs. The women being paid less so they could spend more on 60s era furnishings and tchotchkes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRDUFpsHus

    Hmm, pretty stilted. No one speaks like this, nor would a handful of Type A men silently through such a presentation.

    From what I (dimly) recall, the lauded shows of the Seventies and Eighties – e.g., Rockford Files, St. Elsewhere, later Barney Miller – seemed more like the interaction of real humans. And even that was pretty fluffy stuff.

    TV may be the worst of the mass culture media. If this has been the peak since I last watched, no regrets about chucking the tube decades ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I think the guy who almost started crying and left the room would be better off as a creative type in Hollywood.
    , @Desiderius

    No one speaks like this
     
    That was the point of the scene. He was recreating a Golden Age (that never was) for the men to be nostalgic about when men did speak like that.

    " Only--but this is rare--
    When a beloved hand is laid in ours,
    When, jaded with the rush and glare
    Of the interminable hours,
    Our eyes can in another's eyes read clear,
    When our world-deafen'd ear
    Is by the tones of a loved voice caress'd--
    A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
    And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
    The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
    And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
    A man becomes aware of his life's flow,
    And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
    The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.

    And there arrives a lull in the hot race
    Wherein he doth for ever chase
    That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
    An air of coolness plays upon his face,
    And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
    And then he thinks he knows
    The hills where his life rose,
    And the sea where it goes. "

    Arnold, The Buried Life

    From what I (dimly) recall, the lauded shows of the Seventies and Eighties – e.g., Rockford Files, St. Elsewhere, later Barney Miller – seemed more like the interaction of real humans. And even that was pretty fluffy stuff.
     
    No, it wasn't, it was well crafted and authentic. As a cord cutter, I can tell you that the vast majority of shows from the 60s-80s (those you get on free TV) have not stood the test of time. Rockford and especially Barney Miller do.
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  26. @Almost Missouri
    Agree that the early episodes had their moments, but it quickly became apparent that the show was just a meandering soft-R soap opera without any point, meaning or relevance.

    Remember the source on that female writer thing?

    If you watch carefully all shows no matter how reactionary eventually morph into soap opera. NYPD blue perhaps one of the most reactionary ever certainly for its time ( you have to exclude first season revolving around the redhead) it goes on for years with hardboiled racist, sexist, chauvinist positive, plots then eventually collapses into preachy PC over soap opera plots in the last season or two. All shows do this like clockwork.some just survive a bit longer than others

    Read More
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  27. Bill says:
    @Jack D
    The sets and costumes were fun but I honestly never understood the appeal. The entire premise of assumed identity was very soap opera-ish right from the start and failed the basis "suspension of disbelief" test. I think the idea was supposed to be we were supposed to watch these awful people smoking and drinking and saying sexist things and we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them. Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.

    The Office was pretty realistic.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dearieme
    "The Office was pretty realistic." It started life as a British show.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    The story arc where Michael starts his own business was great.
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  28. Jack D says:
    @Elmer T. Jones
    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren't that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues. And of course the women spend a huge effort getting dolled up for work precisely to pique male interest and to inflict consternation among their female rivals.

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused "the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don't look so good."

    This latest public outrage over male-on-female harassment needs to include a discussion on female beauty privilege and women's complicity in instigating bumbling sexual entreaties from their befuddled male co-workers.

    How does your friend look in a bathing suit? We expect impossible beauty standards based on what we see online, on TV and film, in magazines, etc. The women you see in the media are top 1% in looks (and nowadays in lack of obesity). This is like saying that your office softball team doesn’t play as well as the Dodgers.

    Women dress to excite the envy of other women and attract the attention of alphas. If they attract the attention of betas and below, their unwelcome attention has to be swatted down. What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male “harassers” meet the alpha test – they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below – fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?
     
    Well Tommy Mottola married both Mariah Carey and Thalia.
    , @Elmer T. Jones
    "How does your friend look in a bathing suit? "

    He didn't spend 2 hours every morning getting gussied up for his office job like the women he was complaining about and they weren't getting subjected to dismissive behavior because he thought he was hot shit on a stick. Oh those poor ladies enduring impossible beauty standards.
    , @Forbes

    What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male “harassers” meet the alpha test – they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below – fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)?
     
    Bingo!

    Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?
     
    This is the Hollywood version of the college campus "regret sex" that has been in the news for a few years--where months (sometimes a year or more) later, a co-ed claims non-consensual contact, therefore sexual assault/harassment.

    In both scenarios, emotional regret is triggered by the encounter failing to live up to expectations--expectations that mostly reside in the imagination as fantasy--Cinderella being the most obvious example.

    In college, the "hook up" that failed to engender a relationship as a couple, rather than the "friend with benefits" that it did, results in disappointment in the trade-off made. Such after-the-fact regret, cogitated on long enough, with sisterly input at evening-the-score, results in months-later accusations of sexual assault.

    In Hollywood, the complainant fermentation time is more single malt scotch, than beer. The failed expectations are married to the embarrassment of having lain down with such physically unattractive specimens--rather than the knight in shining armor.

    You can criticize men for "locker room" talk (mostly jocular bravado), but women are far more ruthless (and gossipy) when it comes to dishing on the relative shortcomings of their suitors.
    , @Opinionator
    Good questions.
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  29. @Jack D
    More background on Weiner and Kater:

    http://deadline.com/2009/10/recent-emmy-winning-young-female-writer-loses-her-job-on-mad-men-17203/

    The "you owe it to me" must be in reference to the fact that he hired Kater as a personal assistant (aka secretary) and eventually promoted her to writer.

    Also note Weiner looking down Kater's dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women, as in Saudi Arabia, and that way no man could ever insult the honor of our blushing virgins again.

    @16 Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women,

    Or make em dress neck to wrist, the way that men have to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corn
    That’s a good point really. Women complain about bans on sleeveless tops or restrictions on skirt length but it’s not like men can work in most offices in sleeveless shirts or even shorts.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    It's the weirdest thing if you catch a Fox News morning show while channel surfing: 2 guys in suits sandwiching a blonde in essentially a sleeveless cocktail dress.
    , @Bill Jones
    The Muslims have a fix for that.
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  30. Ragno says:

    MAD MEN – yet another emblem of what passes for modern American art & culture that I’ve never bothered watching. Turns out I was right.

    When the critics (whoever they are) unanimously clap their hands raw over this season’s cultural showpiece, desperately trying to out-applaud their fellows at first (before later attempting to beat them to the second-thoughts, ‘backlash’, bandwagon) they’re inadvertently sending us a message to Stay Away.

    T’wasn’t always thus; just since America unmistakably assumed the mantle of Weimar II. But from that day forward, it’s been a money-in-the-bank proposition.

    Read More
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  31. Pericles says:
    @19491950
    What about Iggy Pop? What about all the rock stars who have gone gold and platinum? Dustin Hoffman was a movie star....... but where are the rock stars? Are they next?

    Billy Joel could be waiting in the wings.

    Read More
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  32. Jack D says:
    @kihowi
    Get it yet, men? If you're not sexually aggressive, you won't get laid, and if you do, the woman will forever have the power to ruin your life. Hope that orgasm is worth it.

    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It’s amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won’t go wrong even after 3,000 years.

    Read More
    • Agree: Abe
    • Replies: @kihowi
    That's because they were made for the benefit of a people, the jews. The Victorians believed the same thing because an orderly and prosperous society was to their advantage. Unfortunately, at the moment a worse society is to the relative advantage to a lot of people in power, so nobody influential is giving out good advice like that anymore.

    Morally living your life like it's two centuries ago would make for a much better life for the vast majority of people, but to do that you need the ability to ignore everything that you hear.

    , @anonymous
    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It’s amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won’t go wrong even after 3,000 years.

    True, true. However, this doesn't protect you from a false accusation, as happened to Joseph in the matter of Potiphar's wife. It's amazing how the warnings against false rape accusations, ring true even after 4000 years.
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  33. theMann says:
    @guest
    Don't we usually save the term "accused" for such things as crimes? He has been "accused" of making a charged comment. Big deal.

    Men in the workplace want to see certain women in the workplace nude. Big surprise.

    And women in the workplace…well:

    The business at my part time weekend job now has cameras covering every nook and cranny of the building interior, at considerable expense. For the simple reason that we once had a female employee who went out of her way to sleep with every married man at that place of business, or shine on every married man she wasn’t attracted to, and then in your face their wives about it while filing sexual harassment charges. I was at work twice when wives came up to confront her.

    The reality is that if your business has as many as (as few as?) ten female employees, at least one of them is going to be a grade A sexual predator looking to create as much chaos and harm as possible, to as many people as possible. But of course, we only hold men accountable for their behavior, and that is 100% of why our civilization is collapsing.

    Read More
    • Agree: BB753
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  34. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Steve,

    So Weiner knows that 2nd & 3rd wave feminism is just radical Jewish anti-goyim anti-family subversive ethnic warfare. Doesn't stop him from using it as a cudgel against the cis hetero HUWHYTE male.

    But how much else of "Mad Men" is another example of Jewish projection of their own "Ordeal of Civility" onto WASP culture.

    Don Draper, is really just what Weiner imagines what he would be if had Jon Hamm's looks.

    Knowing what I know now, I can't believe I wasted my time on watching that crap.

    I gave it a try for a few episodes. But, knowing what I knew (knewing what I know) about the show’s agenda, I couldn’t stomach it for very long.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Mad Men was the very last fiction TV series I ever watched. Now I do not even watch the NFL except when visiting my 91 year old father.

    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    The only movies I see are the ones that either Steve or TheRightStuff say are remotely worthwhile. The last movies I have seen are Dunkirk, Baby Driver, and Logan Lucky. I will go see Blade Runner 2047 and the new Kingsmen.

    I thought this was a very astute bit of media criticism perhaps inspired in part by our own ISTEVE.

    The Indispensable Future of White Masculinity - Vertigo Politix
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKNxuRL8kgY
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  35. @Mike Zwick
    They went after Jimmy Page years ago. He was sort of ahead of his time: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/the-10-wildest-led-zeppelin-legends-fact-checked-20121121/jimmy-page-dated-a-14-year-old-girl-while-he-was-in-led-zeppelin-19691231

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrqMdja4eYs

    Robert Plant bad behavior —–> art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Rock stars are immune from any fallout over sexual harassment (groping, bedding barely legal girls, orgies, propositions) because they just don't give a damn. In fact, they welcome such attention, they love it. Such access is one of the perqs they sought and signed up for when they picked up the guitar or microphone. No matter how bad they behave, the girls will keep on coming and the records will sell (as long as they are decent.) John Lennon used to bang groupies in the dressing room 15 minutes before the Beatles went on for a set.

    Now, if the sainted Bruce Springsteen (the Tom Hanks of the Rock world) were caught up in such scandals it would be BIG news and deflate many of his supporting critics (but not most of his fans). If it came out that he so much as felt up a fan backstage before a show he would be off in a flash to that clinic in Arizona with Harvey and Kevin Spacey.
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  36. @Mike Zwick
    They went after Jimmy Page years ago. He was sort of ahead of his time: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/the-10-wildest-led-zeppelin-legends-fact-checked-20121121/jimmy-page-dated-a-14-year-old-girl-while-he-was-in-led-zeppelin-19691231

    Jimmy Page is protected by dark forces and therefore untouchable!

    Read More
    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    Yes he's part of the Blue Oyster Cult, cult of satanic hard rock guitarists. Tony Iommi is club secretary
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  37. The Jews in the psychotherapy hustle want us to believe that they know more about “mental health” than the rest of us. So what do they tell us to do? Let go of the past, abandon the illusion of the ego and live in the moment, like you see recommended in those one-off magazines for sale in supermarkets about “mindfulness,” “holistic living” and “spirituality.”

    But then look at what Jews do when it comes to the things they really care about: They obsess over their history of persecution, they show bruised egos, and they worry constantly about white men organizing into the next Nazi movement and led by a new Hitler.

    Jews need to follow their own advice and get over themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous-antimarxist
    Golly Gee who could behind the whole mindfulness nonsense???

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn

    Son-in-law of Howard Zinn.
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  38. benjaminl says:

    Off-Topic:

    https://www.dallasnews.com/life/aging-1/2017/11/10/connecting-dots-hispanic-genealogy-organization-helps-fill-blanks-family-tree

    Today I Learned that Conquistador-Americans care about genealogy as much as WASPS and Jews and other proud ethnic groups.

    Read More
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  39. @kihowi
    Get it yet, men? If you're not sexually aggressive, you won't get laid, and if you do, the woman will forever have the power to ruin your life. Hope that orgasm is worth it.

    Get it yet, men? If you’re not sexually aggressive, you won’t get laid, and if you do, the woman will forever have the power to ruin your life. Hope that orgasm is worth it.

    I’m not sure if you’re reading this in the merchant voice or if you’re serious…

    Don’t blackpill, our guys don’t need any more reasons to give up.

    People get laid all the time with women who are perfectly happy about it and will never try to “ruin your life.

    Read More
    • Replies: @kihowi
    I mean it in the sense that modern history has been a continual heaping up of sexual obstacles in the lives of ordinary men, of which this is one. To make sense of your life and do well at it, it's important to understand that.

    If you're a guy, all of sexual politics is against you at the moment. Your life will probably not be ruined, but it's become very easy.

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  40. Spud Boy says:

    Is this the new strategy in the appropriation phase of the civil rights movement: Accuse every straight white male in the country of sexual misconduct?
    .
    .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    No, just some strategic Jews.

    This is the usual nice white ladies maintaining plausible deniability like they do with controlling black population through Planned Parenthood.
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  41. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Elmer T. Jones
    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren't that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues. And of course the women spend a huge effort getting dolled up for work precisely to pique male interest and to inflict consternation among their female rivals.

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused "the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don't look so good."

    This latest public outrage over male-on-female harassment needs to include a discussion on female beauty privilege and women's complicity in instigating bumbling sexual entreaties from their befuddled male co-workers.

    Friend of mine at Encorpera went to the company picnic at the local water park. Later he mused “the women all look hot at work but when you see them in a bikini they don’t look so good.”

    Environment matters. When a woman’s one of the few females around, she looks hot. Amongst a sea of younger, in shape women at a water park, she doesn’t. Women understand this, and when they want to feel pretty deliberately try to get into male-dominated environments.

    Many feminist-types are homely women desiring to “break into the boys club” because they secretly think they can snag a bf or husband by being the only meat around. Other office girls are sluts looking to maximize male attention.

    We had a plain jane in my office once, but she was young and in-shape, and so was garnering attention. She started dressing more and more provocatively to get more attention. Then I saw her out once on the weekend amongst a sea of normal women and she was definitely right in the middle looks wise; it broke the spell, and I stopped having an office crush on her.

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  42. kihowi says:
    @Jack D
    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It's amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won't go wrong even after 3,000 years.

    That’s because they were made for the benefit of a people, the jews. The Victorians believed the same thing because an orderly and prosperous society was to their advantage. Unfortunately, at the moment a worse society is to the relative advantage to a lot of people in power, so nobody influential is giving out good advice like that anymore.

    Morally living your life like it’s two centuries ago would make for a much better life for the vast majority of people, but to do that you need the ability to ignore everything that you hear.

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  43. dearieme says:
    @Bill
    The Office was pretty realistic.

    “The Office was pretty realistic.” It started life as a British show.

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  44. kihowi says:
    @27 year old

    Get it yet, men? If you’re not sexually aggressive, you won’t get laid, and if you do, the woman will forever have the power to ruin your life. Hope that orgasm is worth it.
     
    I'm not sure if you're reading this in the merchant voice or if you're serious...

    Don't blackpill, our guys don't need any more reasons to give up.

    People get laid all the time with women who are perfectly happy about it and will never try to "ruin your life.

    I mean it in the sense that modern history has been a continual heaping up of sexual obstacles in the lives of ordinary men, of which this is one. To make sense of your life and do well at it, it’s important to understand that.

    If you’re a guy, all of sexual politics is against you at the moment. Your life will probably not be ruined, but it’s become very easy.

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  45. the pre-boomer anglosphere really was unimaginably nice

    here’s a post-war scandal for you: a major public figure–a philosopher!–is shamed before the nation

    Joad once boasted in print, “I cheat the railway company whenever I can.”[17] On 12 April 1948 Joad was caught travelling on a Waterloo to Exeter train without a valid ticket.[18] When he failed to give a satisfactory explanation, he was convicted of fare dodging and fined £2 (£67 as of 2017). This made front-page headlines in the national newspapers, destroyed his hopes of a peerage and resulted in his dismissal from the BBC.[19] The humiliation of this had a severe effect on Joad’s health, and he soon became bed-confined at his home in Hampstead.[citation needed] Joad renounced his agnosticism and returned to the Christianity of the Church of England, which he detailed in his book The Recovery of Belief, published in 1952

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Any relation to Tom Joad?
    , @TelfoedJohn
    Funny that reading the wiki article on Joad it appears he was happy to have mistresses and believe in the ‘inferior mind’ of women. And yet his decline and shunning was caused by not paying a train ticket. It’s a moral reversal of now - where private lives and thoughts are punishable. Illegal actions were regarded as immoral then. It was like moral version of broken window theory - one unpaid train ticket and you’re finished.
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  46. @Mike Zwick
    They went after Jimmy Page years ago. He was sort of ahead of his time: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/the-10-wildest-led-zeppelin-legends-fact-checked-20121121/jimmy-page-dated-a-14-year-old-girl-while-he-was-in-led-zeppelin-19691231

    You mean like thirty years ago.

    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beastieboys/thenewstyle.html

    If I played guitar I’d be Jimmy Page
    The girlie’s I like are underage Check it!

    Steve,

    You have the wrong song. The Led Zeppelin song written by Robert Plant and inspired by the teen groupies they would meet at Rodney Bingenheimer’s English Disco on the Sunset Strip was Sick Again.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_Again

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_Bingenheimer%27s_English_Disco

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  47. @advancedatheist
    The Jews in the psychotherapy hustle want us to believe that they know more about "mental health" than the rest of us. So what do they tell us to do? Let go of the past, abandon the illusion of the ego and live in the moment, like you see recommended in those one-off magazines for sale in supermarkets about "mindfulness," "holistic living" and "spirituality."

    But then look at what Jews do when it comes to the things they really care about: They obsess over their history of persecution, they show bruised egos, and they worry constantly about white men organizing into the next Nazi movement and led by a new Hitler.

    Jews need to follow their own advice and get over themselves.

    Golly Gee who could behind the whole mindfulness nonsense???

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn

    Son-in-law of Howard Zinn.

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  48. @Jack D
    How does your friend look in a bathing suit? We expect impossible beauty standards based on what we see online, on TV and film, in magazines, etc. The women you see in the media are top 1% in looks (and nowadays in lack of obesity). This is like saying that your office softball team doesn't play as well as the Dodgers.

    Women dress to excite the envy of other women and attract the attention of alphas. If they attract the attention of betas and below, their unwelcome attention has to be swatted down. What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male "harassers" meet the alpha test - they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below - fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    Well Tommy Mottola married both Mariah Carey and Thalia.

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  49. Weiner is like Ralph Lauren to me. Never thought much of his story lines and social comment stuff in the show, but he has a real sense of WASP style and the aesthetic appeal of the Bad Old Days. Didn’t Macy’s do a Mad Men line of suits or something?

    From the first episode you knew this show was going to be about the Mad Men running up against the ‘civil rights movement’ and feminism. In the meantime, plenty of eye candy for all.

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  50. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I gave it a try for a few episodes. But, knowing what I knew (knewing what I know) about the show's agenda, I couldn't stomach it for very long.

    Mad Men was the very last fiction TV series I ever watched. Now I do not even watch the NFL except when visiting my 91 year old father.

    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    The only movies I see are the ones that either Steve or TheRightStuff say are remotely worthwhile. The last movies I have seen are Dunkirk, Baby Driver, and Logan Lucky. I will go see Blade Runner 2047 and the new Kingsmen.

    I thought this was a very astute bit of media criticism perhaps inspired in part by our own ISTEVE.

    The Indispensable Future of White Masculinity – Vertigo Politix

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    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    Try watching British and foreign historicals. The Last Kingdom is a nice series that depicts hierarchy and loyalty in a positive and refreshing light.
    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    I liked Breaking Bad a lot, but even that show had its PC elements. If you want to see a good movie that makes a superficial attempt at being PC (but with a wink) watch Bone Tomahawk. It's like the Searchers except in Bone Tomahawk the Indians are cannibals!
    , @Opinionator
    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    What would you tell a family member so that they see things the way you do?

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  51. Brabantian says: • Website

    As commenters Jack D & Peter Akuleyev both note above, part of the glory of ‘Mad Men’ was smoking & drinking at the office

    Modern culture is indeed missing out on some things … e.g., on knowing how health studies have shown that there is virtually zero health risk from smoking 1 or 2 cigars per day (versus cigarettes), because premium cigars are all-natural & you don’t inhale into the lungs (National Cancer Institute Monograph 9, ‘Cigars – Health Effects & Trends’, 1998)

    And how cruel of the US regime to have imposed its 55-year-long Cuban cigar embargo since 1962, depriving USA people of the dreamy, comtemplative, rather spiritual benefits of Cuban stogies

    Here in just under 3 minutes, the terrific late-Mad-Men-era cigar commercials, where Edie Adams sang ‘Hey Big Spender!’ … with some stylish ‘diversity’ of the more positive kind back then

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  52. Forbes says:
    @Jack D
    The sets and costumes were fun but I honestly never understood the appeal. The entire premise of assumed identity was very soap opera-ish right from the start and failed the basis "suspension of disbelief" test. I think the idea was supposed to be we were supposed to watch these awful people smoking and drinking and saying sexist things and we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them. Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.

    we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them.

    It was definitely projecting today’s perspective on morality/values/ethics back on to the ’60s, so today’s “woke” generation can feel morally superior to (their parents/grandparents) fifty years ago.

    The appeal was self-satisfied ego flattery.

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  53. Forbes says:
    @guest
    Don't we usually save the term "accused" for such things as crimes? He has been "accused" of making a charged comment. Big deal.

    Men in the workplace want to see certain women in the workplace nude. Big surprise.

    Are we sure Weiner wasn’t just trying out dialogue from the show to see how it played out…

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  54. Jack D says:

    People have been (correctly) noticing that most of the celebs here are Jewish and wondering why that is. It occurs to me that it’s a “choose the form of your destructor” thing. Lots and lots of celebs self destruct. As I mentioned before, being a celebrity is not a healthy or normal thing and can mess with your head (not that these folks were mentally well balanced to begin with). You begin to think that you are immune from all sorts of rules and limits that apply to lesser mortals. Maybe even the laws of physics. You can drive as fast as you want, fly your plane in bad weather, approach random strangers for sex, buy as many drugs as you want, etc. Almost every thing you ask for, you get so naturally over time you ask for more and more things from more and more people (and/or the gods) and one day you cross the line and it’s kaboom.

    But for non-Jewish ones, it mostly seems to be drugs or alcohol. A weakness for the bottle, especially, is a well known problem for northern Europeans. Whereas it seems to be less of a problem for Jews.

    The other thing, as I mentioned in another post, is that these guys were all, despite their wealth, fundamentally nebbishy, fat, ugly, etc. If JFK Jr. (or Sr. for that matter) asked to do perverted stuff in your presence, what female would not be honored? But these guys were physically revolting and that did not overcome their wealth and fame (at least in the end – it worked for many years).

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    these guys were all, despite their wealth, fundamentally nebbishy, fat, ugly, etc.
     
    Pretty much the general picture. Warren Beatty had scads of women following him around hoping to be the one chosen. Supposedly he's had a very large number of groupie encounters. But then Warren's smooth and suave, in contrast to the Weinstein types who were just clumsy grabbers. There's a level of anger that's coming out about having had to get it on with cruddy icky guys to get somewhere in show biz. Who's out there complaining about Beatty?
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  55. @Jack D
    How does your friend look in a bathing suit? We expect impossible beauty standards based on what we see online, on TV and film, in magazines, etc. The women you see in the media are top 1% in looks (and nowadays in lack of obesity). This is like saying that your office softball team doesn't play as well as the Dodgers.

    Women dress to excite the envy of other women and attract the attention of alphas. If they attract the attention of betas and below, their unwelcome attention has to be swatted down. What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male "harassers" meet the alpha test - they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below - fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    “How does your friend look in a bathing suit? ”

    He didn’t spend 2 hours every morning getting gussied up for his office job like the women he was complaining about and they weren’t getting subjected to dismissive behavior because he thought he was hot shit on a stick. Oh those poor ladies enduring impossible beauty standards.

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  56. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Weiner actually said that! OMG! He'll never work in this town again! Take Mad Men off of Netflix and burn all the negatives!

    We are rapidly reaching the stage of farce. In 19XX, Celebrity Y accidentally brushed against my arm as he was passing me in the hallway. In 19ZZ, Celebrity K told me, in reference to a dress I was wearing, "that color looks good on you." In 19YY, Celebrity B patted me on the shoulder once as I was blocking a doorway and said, "excuse me I need to get by." Behead them all!

    Methinks that we past the level of farce awhile back. We’re now into the realm of WWF/Saturday morning cartoons. Eventually no one will take this stuff seriously anymore. Which is unfortunate because, believe it or not, there are some guys out there who are what used to be called in a more elegant age “cads.” If we reach that point, blame the Feminazis and their male large “L” Liberal allies who wanted it both ways. Thus on the one hand it’s ok for someone like JayLo could wear a dress as tight as a rubber band and shake the ol’ booty. Just remember: don’t touch. Then again, wanting it both ways is typically American–and the reason why, as a society, we have become so f**ked up.

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  57. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    OT: Supposedly Joe Biden has just made up his mind that he’s running in 2020. He’ll be 78, a confirmed beta male, and best known for fondling children. This will be a walkover for Trump.

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  58. Forbes says:
    @Jack D
    How does your friend look in a bathing suit? We expect impossible beauty standards based on what we see online, on TV and film, in magazines, etc. The women you see in the media are top 1% in looks (and nowadays in lack of obesity). This is like saying that your office softball team doesn't play as well as the Dodgers.

    Women dress to excite the envy of other women and attract the attention of alphas. If they attract the attention of betas and below, their unwelcome attention has to be swatted down. What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male "harassers" meet the alpha test - they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below - fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male “harassers” meet the alpha test – they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below – fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)?

    Bingo!

    Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    This is the Hollywood version of the college campus “regret sex” that has been in the news for a few years–where months (sometimes a year or more) later, a co-ed claims non-consensual contact, therefore sexual assault/harassment.

    In both scenarios, emotional regret is triggered by the encounter failing to live up to expectations–expectations that mostly reside in the imagination as fantasy–Cinderella being the most obvious example.

    In college, the “hook up” that failed to engender a relationship as a couple, rather than the “friend with benefits” that it did, results in disappointment in the trade-off made. Such after-the-fact regret, cogitated on long enough, with sisterly input at evening-the-score, results in months-later accusations of sexual assault.

    In Hollywood, the complainant fermentation time is more single malt scotch, than beer. The failed expectations are married to the embarrassment of having lain down with such physically unattractive specimens–rather than the knight in shining armor.

    You can criticize men for “locker room” talk (mostly jocular bravado), but women are far more ruthless (and gossipy) when it comes to dishing on the relative shortcomings of their suitors.

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    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    A retro channel recently showed "Come Blow Your Horn," in which Frank Sinatra's ploy of luring girls to ski resorts for auditions with non-existent producers is depicted as a smooth move, rather than grounds for a lawsuit. One "actress" who went to the resort seems remarkably untraumatized, even trying to arrange another "audition" with the younger brother, whom Sinatra tells that she isn't really ambitious: "She's having too much fun being discovered."
    The point is, the girls in movies like "The Best of Everything" knew what to expect. One thing that has changed for the worse is people don't warn their daughters (or their sons either, judging by that 18-year-old who faked 21 to get into a bar where Kevin Spacey bought him drink after drink), that folks ARE going to hit on them, and they need to avoid certain situations if that's not what they want. Does it mean it's "their fault"? No, but if someone's plying you with alcohol, either don't drink it or buy your own. A producer opens the door in his bathrobe? RUN. You're having that very first cuddle session with that frat boy and you don't want things to go too fast? Stay off the beer and drugs, and postpone things if HE looks like he's had too many Jell-O shots or bong hits. I swear, these kids seem to have less preparation for real life than we had in jr high.
    Feminists say that the males should change THEIR behavior instead of putting all the responsibility on females (or younger males). Guess what--they WON'T. Worry about safety before you worry about equality.
    Little whippersnappers....
    , @Peter Hrobak

    You can criticize men for “locker room” talk (mostly jocular bravado), but women are far more ruthless (and gossipy) when it comes to dishing on the relative shortcomings of their suitors.
     
    You, sir, are a helluva writer! Chapeau!
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  59. gwood says:

    You’re talking about that show with Christina Hendricks, right?
    There was writing?

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  60. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @19491950
    What about Iggy Pop? What about all the rock stars who have gone gold and platinum? Dustin Hoffman was a movie star....... but where are the rock stars? Are they next?

    Rock musicians, on average, don’t look like Harvey Weinstein or Weinstein’s kind. They tend to become famous when they’re in their twenties and in their better-looking years, and on the whole, they attract just enough women genuinely interested in having sex with them that they don’t seem to resort to sexual harassment for power-trip reasons. In fact, if you look at guys like John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, and Elliott Smith, they’re just as likely to end up being victimized by manipulative and sociopathic women (Yoko Ono, Courtney Love, Jennifer Chiba).

    Also, most rock musicians aren’t Jews. However, some Jewish musicians have a reputation for being massive jerks to the people around them: Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Gene Simmons, Paul Simon, Barbra Streisand, Art Garfunkel, Amy Winehouse, Phil Spector, the above-mentioned Courtney Love, etc.

    One man well-known in the classical music world for being a full-blown sexual harasser was Leonard Bernstein. He groped everybody, male or female, according to the gossip.

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    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    The best male rock musicians, and I mean the whole of popular music, tend to be average or even a bit ugly. Yes, there are exceptions, but the really good ones, like Elton John, are not oil on canvas.

    Their singing and playing and performing and emoting really slays the girls and makes their averageness not matter a lick. And they know this.

    The Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks.... none of those guys were objectively handsome. But it didn't matter. Don't get me started on Tom Petty, RIP.
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  61. neprof says:

    In his strained verbiage, though, there’s one cogent sentence that explains much of Mad Men’s appeal to contemporary women:

    Is verbiage a word? I’ve heard it used on several occasions recently and I don’t like it.

    That’s all.

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    • Replies: @peterike

    Is verbiage a word? I’ve heard it used on several occasions recently and I don’t like it.

     

    Yes, but a shocking number of people say/write "verbage" instead, which isn't a word.

    Though my favorite mistaken usage is all the people who say someone or something (like a company) is "reactionary," by which they mean "we only react to things that happen instead of taking the lead." I always chuckle knowing how shocked they'd be if they knew what they really just said.
    , @Jonah
    Is "dictionary" a word?
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  62. OT: The reverse Sailer Strategy:

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  63. BB753 says:
    @AndrewR

    While a few young workplace women are passable most aren’t that hot. Most of the men being caged up and having sparse outside interests tend to over-estimate the beauty of their female colleagues.
     
    Most people in general "aren't that hot." If not-that-hot guys only saved their sexual advances for indeed-that-hot ladies, then a lot more people would be virginal, or at least involuntarily celibate, and a lot fewer babies would be born. While this wouldn't necessarily be all that bad, most fives are going to end up with fours-sixes, most 7s will end up with 6s-8s, etc. In a society without arranged marriages and with relative economic equality between the sexes, few people will end up with anyone outside of their own league in the sexual marketplace.

    “In a society without arranged marriages and with relative economic equality between the sexes, few people will end up with anyone outside of their own league in the sexual marketplace.”

    In a society without arranged marriages and no restrictions on women’s sexuality, few people will end up married, period.

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  64. GregMan says:

    Looks like (((Matthew Weiner))) has discovered there are worse things in life than being snubbed by some country-club WASP.

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  65. Corn says:
    @Dave from Oz

    @16 Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women,

     

    Or make em dress neck to wrist, the way that men have to.

    That’s a good point really. Women complain about bans on sleeveless tops or restrictions on skirt length but it’s not like men can work in most offices in sleeveless shirts or even shorts.

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  66. Abe says: • Website

    Oh, my brothers, let us stop for a moment to just savor the gorgeousness and gorgeousity of this complete meltdown of perhaps THE MOST diehard bastion of liberalism in our culture. And pause for a moment to offer up a couple oxen each to He who hath made it happen- none other than our God-Emperor Donald J. Trump.

    At first I had just assumed the destruction of Harvey Weinstein was collateral damage in the liquidation of the Clinton Machine by Democratic Party-Inner Party overlords. As someone pointed out, they are PUBLICLY JOKING about Harvey’s shenanigans from the podium of the Oscars only a couple years ago, so if he was to get his comeuppance- WHY NOW of all times?

    But now that this thing has exploded beyond my wildest expectations to kill the careers of several veritable A-listers, can things really be as they seem? Can this really be the work of the rising new cadre of hookup culture-scarred Millennial women-in-media executives who are ‘not OK’ with trading a few blow-jobs for the continuation of Roe-v-Wade? Did these guileless 4th Wave naifs really go to their cynical, 2nd Wave senior executive boss hags (women like Dona Karen and Hilary Clinton and Gloria Steinem who unspokenly know sexism scandals are only to be used against Republicans, not ‘male-feminist’ allies who are still needed to get you where you want to go) and put them on the spot to put-up-or-shut-up? And that under this pressure the boss hags folded, agreeing to enlist the forces of Fake News to run with this campaign instead of burying it like they had done so many times previously?

    If so, we can thank our Olympian President for it. They used their patented ‘Republican sexist male’ deathray on him during the election, the same one that had fried Republicans from milquetoast pro-abortion liberal Bob Packwood (“the limp-wristed ‘decent’ Republican played by Alan Alda on WEST WING was really based on me!”) to squeaky-clean, Mormon boyscout Mitt Romney and his Fake Gaffe over having ‘binders of women’ ready to join his cabinet. When that reliably effective deathray bounced off our President like an AK-47 slug off Superman’s sternum, and when the PussyHat marches fizzled into nothingness, can it be that these frustrated Millennial Feminist women-in-media executives decided to take out their rage on the entertainment and media industry scuzzballs they had tolerated for years simply because they were the most handy targets now?

    Deflecting a deadly attack to explode right in the faces of his enemies? ONLY TRUMP.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Some of this looks like the reaction that occurs when you realize you've made a bad marriage decision. You lash out at your partner in a rage on the way to the final breakup. Some people on the left are in the middle of a divorce with other leftists.
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  67. Hibernian says:
    @guest
    I have posted about this before, but I'm still surprised they didn't have the "white shoe" advertising firm of Sterling Cooper be taken over or superseded by formerly underdoggish Jews. They built up a good vehicle for their eventual creative takeover with the character Ginsberg, but he went crazy. Probably that would've been too on the nose, anyway.

    Instead, the firm was eaten up by boorish, much more crudely sexual harassing, soulless, stupid, empty, corporate Black Irish thugs. As they said on the show, they were a "shirtsleeves operation." So long, perfectly stylish Don Draper.

    It wasn't all bad, because the show nodded to the true charms of the pre-dirty hippy era. The clothes, hair, and decor were nice, if nothing else.

    But the overall message was that within every well-groomed and mannered WASP captain of industry is a wild id who only got where he is by committing desertion and stealing someone else's identity.

    “Instead, the firm was eaten up by boorish, much more crudely sexual harassing, soulless, stupid, empty, corporate Black Irish thugs.”

    I’ve just finished reading “Blue Blood & Mutiny: The Fight for the Soul of Morgan Stanley” about the power struggle which ensued after the merger between Morgan Stanley and Dean Witter Discover (spinoff from Sears and headed by Irish Catholic son of a Scandinavian Mormon mother Phil Purcell.)

    A theme of the book was that there was a Catholic (and largely Irish Catholic) cabal around Purcell which was running the now merged firm into the ground. The old guard (which eventually regained control) had their own favorite Catholics (one of whom replaced Purcell when the battle was won.)

    Interestingly, although firm performance under Purcell was mediocre, he stayed away from subprime mortage backed securities. In the period between the resolution of the above noted power struggle in late 2005 and the 2007 – 2008 financial crisis, Morgan Stanley made heavy bets on subprime mortgages just like the other firms. They eventually merged with somebody, I think Smith Barney.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel H
    Yeah the old guard traders at Morgan Stanley pulled a coup and ousted the simple, blockheaded Purcell who represented the old stockbroker customer service culture of Dean Witter. Where did that get Morgan Stanley? Tens of $billions in losses and a necessary bailout from the American taxpayer. The same power struggles happened at Merrill Lynch, where the new breed of "Traders" ruined a stable and prosperous company and put it out of business, again with a massive bailout from you and me. And the scenario was repeated again when UBS gobbled up a very good, old-line stock broker Paine Webber.

    Stockbrokering is not easy. Its ponderous, difficult and a good stockbroker devotes years to build a client base through trust and excellent fiduciary care of his clients' assets. But it is very profitable and stable business, it just takes time for good stock broker to build his base and the real rewards come later in life. These little shit traders, on the other hand, fresh from elite business schools and PhD STEM programs, who never sold as much as an ice cream cone in their lives, brought these institutions to their knees within a few years, all the while banking massive bonuses on Fake profits that unwound and sank the companies when the market crashed.

    After 2008, I wish there was a law stating that we good have branded Wall Street traders with some identifying mark on their forehead, so that the rest of us could have mocked and abused them for the remainder of their larcenous lives.
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  68. Hibernian says:
    @anonymous
    Hmm, pretty stilted. No one speaks like this, nor would a handful of Type A men silently through such a presentation.

    From what I (dimly) recall, the lauded shows of the Seventies and Eighties - e.g., Rockford Files, St. Elsewhere, later Barney Miller - seemed more like the interaction of real humans. And even that was pretty fluffy stuff.

    TV may be the worst of the mass culture media. If this has been the peak since I last watched, no regrets about chucking the tube decades ago.

    I think the guy who almost started crying and left the room would be better off as a creative type in Hollywood.

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  69. Sammler says: • Website
    @Clyde
    Sorry, I wish I could remember. He said this around season 4. Mad Men got worse, more soapy each season as it "addressed women's issues." (lulz) What was that about lefties, libs, gays and women taking over-hijacking every org and foundation unless it is explicitly conservative?

    That’s Conquest’s Second Law, but has nothing to do with the decline of Mad Men. It is an immutable law of television that all long-running shows morph into soap operas.

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  70. eah says:

    OT

    Magnify the image for interesting info on AZ Sen John McCain and the McCain Institute.

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  71. Daniel H says:
    @Jack D
    The sets and costumes were fun but I honestly never understood the appeal. The entire premise of assumed identity was very soap opera-ish right from the start and failed the basis "suspension of disbelief" test. I think the idea was supposed to be we were supposed to watch these awful people smoking and drinking and saying sexist things and we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them. Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.

    The entire show was a 7 year, 100 episode rip off of a cool 2 hour 1960 melodrama, “The Apartment”, starring Fred MacMurray, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

    The Apartment had a more realistic portrayal of 1960s office culture and office villain in the role of Jeff Sheldrake (Fred MacMurray). Of course, being a 1960s film (came out in 1960, so really a 50s film) we needed a morally uplifting ending where Jack Lemon’s character turns Shirley MacLaine’s character into an honest woman, but Mad Men had it’s own “uplifting” sentimental bullshit ending with that Coke commercial.

    Steve has said that he doesn’t really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He’s right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    Two other cool movies of 1960s business culture (Sleepers, as they are referred to by critics) are 1) King Murray (1969) and 2) Salesman (1969) by the Maysles brothers. Very good, very interesting view of a past that many of us lived through. No glamour except the lure of money in both of these, which is what business is fundamentally about.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Steve has said that he doesn’t really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He’s right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.
     
    I'm of the same mind. I find that the meandering story-telling quickly grows tiresome. I like a story to have a beginning, a middle, and an end. The only one of these modern "New Golden Age of Television" shows I have watched is Breaking Bad. It was good, and often quite clever. But, even still, I got tired of it. I still haven't seen the last season, and may never do so.

    There is also something highly manipulative about such open-ended story-telling, since the shows' writers and runners have continuous feedback available to them and constantly rework the narrative. All media is manipulative, of course, but at least with a traditional novel or movie, the writer has to do it all upfront.
    , @anonymous-antimarxist
    "The Apartment” was a really dark movie that is best understood as a projection of Jewish sexual morals on to WASP culture. I think it is another prime example of John Murray Cuddihy's Ordeal of Civility where Jews project and rationalize their own dysfunctional behavior and willingness to exploit the Goyim on to the Goyim themselves.

    Shirley MacLaine is the naive shiksa being taken advantage of my her Macher boss. Jack Lemon is a hopeless nebbish who is willingly enabling the sexual abuse of his female coworkers in order to help secure his own sinecure at his company.

    It is implausible to believe that "LOVE" could have conquered all and brought Miss Kubelik and Bud Baxter together after she had attempted suicide.

    Fred MacMurry regretted making the movie in part because he was able to see through the machinations of the film. His fans were upset that he would play such a character is what was a really manipulative and unrealistic film and he felt he let them down.
    , @guest
    "Mad Men had its own 'uplifting' sentimental bulldogs ending with that Coke commercial"

    I felt the opposite. He's exploiting hippy sentiment to sell Coke, not being sentimental.
    , @guest
    I have vivid memories of being a kid watching the Apartment, thinking how cool it would be to hang out in 1960 New York bars drinking on New Year's Eve.

    Now, the thought is kinda repulsive to me, but oh, the fact that people bothered to dress up, cared about decor, had manners, etc. It's worth a little attempted suicide, alcoholism, and lung cancer, maybe.

    On the other hand, I was heartbroken by the idea of taking cold medicine and settling in to a night of tv dinner, only to be turned out to the night so someone could use my apartment for sex.

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  72. Mr. Anon says:
    @whorefinder
    The lure of Mad Men was four fold:

    -Nostalgia trip for boomers
    -Women got to publicly scream "Egads!" at the sexism while being secretly/not-so-secretly turned on by it. e.g. Dom Draper became a sex symbol.
    -Lefty men got to spout off about how "woke" we've become.
    -All those people in Hollywood who came from advertising/worked in commercials could have a TV show that lauded them instead of making fun of their careers as cheap salesmen. (This has happened before; one of the default careers for men in rom coms and comedies in general seems to be advertising, e.g. The Out-of-Towners).

    I didn't like the Mad Men; the episodes seemed to be designed to paint all that former culture as "evil" and today as good, and seemed very didactic and after-school-specialy the few times I watched ("racism is bad, mmkay?" "those poor oppressed women!"). It was interesting to watch them experience new technology that today is old hat, if only because our kids and grandkids will do it to us one day WRT the internet and smartphones and whatever comes next.

    -All those people in Hollywood who came from advertising/worked in commercials could have a TV show that lauded them instead of making fun of their careers as cheap salesmen. (This has happened before; one of the default careers for men in rom coms and comedies in general seems to be advertising, e.g. The Out-of-Towners).

    Yes, that’s true. In those old 60s sex-comedies, it seems like the men always worked in advertising or publishing. And advertising was always painted as a glamorous career. Perhaps because a lot of writers got their start as ad-men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Jack Lemmon, mentioned above in connection to the Apartment, also starred as an advertising "account man" in Days of Wine and Roses. That was definitely unglamorous.
    , @whorefinder

    Perhaps because a lot of writers got their start as ad-men.
     
    Donald P. Bellisario, the man who created Quantum Leap, Magnum P.I., and NCIS, had a very successful career as an ad man before he made the big leap (the quantum leap?) into show business.

    Interestingly, Bellisario served in the Marines in the same unit as Lee Harvey Oswald. Bellisario believed Oswald did the assassination, and made an episode of Quantum Leap where Sam leaps into Oswald at various points in his life, all to show how Oswald was led to kill JFK.
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  73. peterike says:
    @neprof

    In his strained verbiage, though, there’s one cogent sentence that explains much of Mad Men’s appeal to contemporary women:
     
    Is verbiage a word? I've heard it used on several occasions recently and I don't like it.

    That's all.

    Is verbiage a word? I’ve heard it used on several occasions recently and I don’t like it.

    Yes, but a shocking number of people say/write “verbage” instead, which isn’t a word.

    Though my favorite mistaken usage is all the people who say someone or something (like a company) is “reactionary,” by which they mean “we only react to things that happen instead of taking the lead.” I always chuckle knowing how shocked they’d be if they knew what they really just said.

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  74. @Jack D
    More background on Weiner and Kater:

    http://deadline.com/2009/10/recent-emmy-winning-young-female-writer-loses-her-job-on-mad-men-17203/

    The "you owe it to me" must be in reference to the fact that he hired Kater as a personal assistant (aka secretary) and eventually promoted her to writer.

    Also note Weiner looking down Kater's dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women, as in Saudi Arabia, and that way no man could ever insult the honor of our blushing virgins again.

    Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.

    But isn’t this true of any TV program or work of entertainment these days? Scripts used to be slow-paced – faster and more implausible than real life, but not by an order of magnitude. Not any more. They’re now all Indiana Jones-type roller coaster rides, without the special effects.

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  75. Daniel H says:
    @Hibernian
    "Instead, the firm was eaten up by boorish, much more crudely sexual harassing, soulless, stupid, empty, corporate Black Irish thugs."

    I've just finished reading "Blue Blood & Mutiny: The Fight for the Soul of Morgan Stanley" about the power struggle which ensued after the merger between Morgan Stanley and Dean Witter Discover (spinoff from Sears and headed by Irish Catholic son of a Scandinavian Mormon mother Phil Purcell.)

    A theme of the book was that there was a Catholic (and largely Irish Catholic) cabal around Purcell which was running the now merged firm into the ground. The old guard (which eventually regained control) had their own favorite Catholics (one of whom replaced Purcell when the battle was won.)

    Interestingly, although firm performance under Purcell was mediocre, he stayed away from subprime mortage backed securities. In the period between the resolution of the above noted power struggle in late 2005 and the 2007 - 2008 financial crisis, Morgan Stanley made heavy bets on subprime mortgages just like the other firms. They eventually merged with somebody, I think Smith Barney.

    Yeah the old guard traders at Morgan Stanley pulled a coup and ousted the simple, blockheaded Purcell who represented the old stockbroker customer service culture of Dean Witter. Where did that get Morgan Stanley? Tens of $billions in losses and a necessary bailout from the American taxpayer. The same power struggles happened at Merrill Lynch, where the new breed of “Traders” ruined a stable and prosperous company and put it out of business, again with a massive bailout from you and me. And the scenario was repeated again when UBS gobbled up a very good, old-line stock broker Paine Webber.

    Stockbrokering is not easy. Its ponderous, difficult and a good stockbroker devotes years to build a client base through trust and excellent fiduciary care of his clients’ assets. But it is very profitable and stable business, it just takes time for good stock broker to build his base and the real rewards come later in life. These little shit traders, on the other hand, fresh from elite business schools and PhD STEM programs, who never sold as much as an ice cream cone in their lives, brought these institutions to their knees within a few years, all the while banking massive bonuses on Fake profits that unwound and sank the companies when the market crashed.

    After 2008, I wish there was a law stating that we good have branded Wall Street traders with some identifying mark on their forehead, so that the rest of us could have mocked and abused them for the remainder of their larcenous lives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The greatest irony is that the "Old Guard" considered themselves to be guardians of stability and tradition. The one good decision they made was to keep Discover card for a while after they won the struggle. It was started while Purcell was at Sears. (He went from McKinsey consultants to Sears (a client) to a spun off Dean Witter Discover to the merged Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Discover.) It was a success financially year after year. The Old Guard hated it culturally but they liked the steady income and were wise enough to know they needed it as they tried to get their footing after their victory.
    , @Art Deco
    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest. The 'bailouts' wherein the Treasury or the Federal Reserve lost money were of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the auto industry components, and AIG (in descending order of losses).
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  76. Jonah says:
    @George
    She was consistently employed until Mad Men in 09. So I guess "You'll never work in this town again is true."

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1958815/

    “Consistently employed.” Look at her credits. She was consistently employed as a coffee fetcher.

    Then she became Matt Weiner’s coffee fetcher. Then he let her be a staff writer to fill out the staff with enough women because he thought he could trust her to not be a problem. Whoops.

    Then he stuck her name on one of his scripts. Which then won the Emmy.

    Then she was an ingrate in public. Then he fired her.

    And she still can’t write. She never could. So now she is out of the business because no way can she go back to fetching coffee.

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  77. Jonah says:
    @neprof

    In his strained verbiage, though, there’s one cogent sentence that explains much of Mad Men’s appeal to contemporary women:
     
    Is verbiage a word? I've heard it used on several occasions recently and I don't like it.

    That's all.

    Is “dictionary” a word?

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  78. Daniel H says:
    @Steve Sailer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrqMdja4eYs

    Robert Plant bad behavior -----> art

    Rock stars are immune from any fallout over sexual harassment (groping, bedding barely legal girls, orgies, propositions) because they just don’t give a damn. In fact, they welcome such attention, they love it. Such access is one of the perqs they sought and signed up for when they picked up the guitar or microphone. No matter how bad they behave, the girls will keep on coming and the records will sell (as long as they are decent.) John Lennon used to bang groupies in the dressing room 15 minutes before the Beatles went on for a set.

    Now, if the sainted Bruce Springsteen (the Tom Hanks of the Rock world) were caught up in such scandals it would be BIG news and deflate many of his supporting critics (but not most of his fans). If it came out that he so much as felt up a fan backstage before a show he would be off in a flash to that clinic in Arizona with Harvey and Kevin Spacey.

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  79. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    A perfect storm of interests?

    A lot of these people would not be coming forward unless there was something in it for them.

    Lawsuits? Are lawyers, many of them Jewish, goading these women to cry victim and eventually sue for big bucks? It could be Jewish lawyers are envious of big-time Jewish producers and execs.

    Feminist putsch or Pu**y Putsch in Hollywood?
    Have all the women come out en masse and call out the men?

    Looks like the house of cards crumbling in TIN MEN.

    Ironically, the Hollywood Jews who spun the ‘McCarthy Era’ into the Dark Ages of America recently ran on Russia! Paranoia!.. but they are now under attack by their own Prog-stitute Army.

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  80. @anonymous
    Hmm, pretty stilted. No one speaks like this, nor would a handful of Type A men silently through such a presentation.

    From what I (dimly) recall, the lauded shows of the Seventies and Eighties - e.g., Rockford Files, St. Elsewhere, later Barney Miller - seemed more like the interaction of real humans. And even that was pretty fluffy stuff.

    TV may be the worst of the mass culture media. If this has been the peak since I last watched, no regrets about chucking the tube decades ago.

    No one speaks like this

    That was the point of the scene. He was recreating a Golden Age (that never was) for the men to be nostalgic about when men did speak like that.

    ” Only–but this is rare–
    When a beloved hand is laid in ours,
    When, jaded with the rush and glare
    Of the interminable hours,
    Our eyes can in another’s eyes read clear,
    When our world-deafen’d ear
    Is by the tones of a loved voice caress’d–
    A bolt is shot back somewhere in our breast,
    And a lost pulse of feeling stirs again.
    The eye sinks inward, and the heart lies plain,
    And what we mean, we say, and what we would, we know.
    A man becomes aware of his life’s flow,
    And hears its winding murmur; and he sees
    The meadows where it glides, the sun, the breeze.

    And there arrives a lull in the hot race
    Wherein he doth for ever chase
    That flying and elusive shadow, rest.
    An air of coolness plays upon his face,
    And an unwonted calm pervades his breast.
    And then he thinks he knows
    The hills where his life rose,
    And the sea where it goes. ”

    Arnold, The Buried Life

    From what I (dimly) recall, the lauded shows of the Seventies and Eighties – e.g., Rockford Files, St. Elsewhere, later Barney Miller – seemed more like the interaction of real humans. And even that was pretty fluffy stuff.

    No, it wasn’t, it was well crafted and authentic. As a cord cutter, I can tell you that the vast majority of shows from the 60s-80s (those you get on free TV) have not stood the test of time. Rockford and especially Barney Miller do.

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  81. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Mad Men was the very last fiction TV series I ever watched. Now I do not even watch the NFL except when visiting my 91 year old father.

    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    The only movies I see are the ones that either Steve or TheRightStuff say are remotely worthwhile. The last movies I have seen are Dunkirk, Baby Driver, and Logan Lucky. I will go see Blade Runner 2047 and the new Kingsmen.

    I thought this was a very astute bit of media criticism perhaps inspired in part by our own ISTEVE.

    The Indispensable Future of White Masculinity - Vertigo Politix
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKNxuRL8kgY

    Try watching British and foreign historicals. The Last Kingdom is a nice series that depicts hierarchy and loyalty in a positive and refreshing light.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seth Largo
    Yes, Last Kingdom is good. Some corny filmmaking here and there but overall a great depiction of the clash between the second and third waves of British conquerors. It's refreshing to watch a show about power dynamics that yet refuses to lecture us about them.
    , @The Last Real Calvinist

    Try watching British and foreign historicals.

     

    That's the conclusion we Calvinists have reached. The largely British-made historical miniseries/short series format combines the scope for in-depth plot and character development with stories that begin and end. We prefer literary adaptations, e.g. from novels by Austen, Dickens, Trollope, etc., but there are other good ones such as The White Queen, Wolf Hall, War and Peace, Parade's End, Victoria, and so on that have high production values, and that follow a novel or else actual historical events (The Crown also fits in here), thereby avoiding the boring plot meanderings and character drift of open-ended American-style series.
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  82. Hibernian says:
    @Daniel H
    Yeah the old guard traders at Morgan Stanley pulled a coup and ousted the simple, blockheaded Purcell who represented the old stockbroker customer service culture of Dean Witter. Where did that get Morgan Stanley? Tens of $billions in losses and a necessary bailout from the American taxpayer. The same power struggles happened at Merrill Lynch, where the new breed of "Traders" ruined a stable and prosperous company and put it out of business, again with a massive bailout from you and me. And the scenario was repeated again when UBS gobbled up a very good, old-line stock broker Paine Webber.

    Stockbrokering is not easy. Its ponderous, difficult and a good stockbroker devotes years to build a client base through trust and excellent fiduciary care of his clients' assets. But it is very profitable and stable business, it just takes time for good stock broker to build his base and the real rewards come later in life. These little shit traders, on the other hand, fresh from elite business schools and PhD STEM programs, who never sold as much as an ice cream cone in their lives, brought these institutions to their knees within a few years, all the while banking massive bonuses on Fake profits that unwound and sank the companies when the market crashed.

    After 2008, I wish there was a law stating that we good have branded Wall Street traders with some identifying mark on their forehead, so that the rest of us could have mocked and abused them for the remainder of their larcenous lives.

    The greatest irony is that the “Old Guard” considered themselves to be guardians of stability and tradition. The one good decision they made was to keep Discover card for a while after they won the struggle. It was started while Purcell was at Sears. (He went from McKinsey consultants to Sears (a client) to a spun off Dean Witter Discover to the merged Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Discover.) It was a success financially year after year. The Old Guard hated it culturally but they liked the steady income and were wise enough to know they needed it as they tried to get their footing after their victory.

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  83. Mr. Anon says:
    @Daniel H
    The entire show was a 7 year, 100 episode rip off of a cool 2 hour 1960 melodrama, "The Apartment", starring Fred MacMurray, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

    The Apartment had a more realistic portrayal of 1960s office culture and office villain in the role of Jeff Sheldrake (Fred MacMurray). Of course, being a 1960s film (came out in 1960, so really a 50s film) we needed a morally uplifting ending where Jack Lemon's character turns Shirley MacLaine's character into an honest woman, but Mad Men had it's own "uplifting" sentimental bullshit ending with that Coke commercial.

    Steve has said that he doesn't really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He's right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    Two other cool movies of 1960s business culture (Sleepers, as they are referred to by critics) are 1) King Murray (1969) and 2) Salesman (1969) by the Maysles brothers. Very good, very interesting view of a past that many of us lived through. No glamour except the lure of money in both of these, which is what business is fundamentally about.

    Steve has said that he doesn’t really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He’s right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    I’m of the same mind. I find that the meandering story-telling quickly grows tiresome. I like a story to have a beginning, a middle, and an end. The only one of these modern “New Golden Age of Television” shows I have watched is Breaking Bad. It was good, and often quite clever. But, even still, I got tired of it. I still haven’t seen the last season, and may never do so.

    There is also something highly manipulative about such open-ended story-telling, since the shows’ writers and runners have continuous feedback available to them and constantly rework the narrative. All media is manipulative, of course, but at least with a traditional novel or movie, the writer has to do it all upfront.

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  84. @Daniel H
    The entire show was a 7 year, 100 episode rip off of a cool 2 hour 1960 melodrama, "The Apartment", starring Fred MacMurray, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

    The Apartment had a more realistic portrayal of 1960s office culture and office villain in the role of Jeff Sheldrake (Fred MacMurray). Of course, being a 1960s film (came out in 1960, so really a 50s film) we needed a morally uplifting ending where Jack Lemon's character turns Shirley MacLaine's character into an honest woman, but Mad Men had it's own "uplifting" sentimental bullshit ending with that Coke commercial.

    Steve has said that he doesn't really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He's right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    Two other cool movies of 1960s business culture (Sleepers, as they are referred to by critics) are 1) King Murray (1969) and 2) Salesman (1969) by the Maysles brothers. Very good, very interesting view of a past that many of us lived through. No glamour except the lure of money in both of these, which is what business is fundamentally about.

    “The Apartment” was a really dark movie that is best understood as a projection of Jewish sexual morals on to WASP culture. I think it is another prime example of John Murray Cuddihy’s Ordeal of Civility where Jews project and rationalize their own dysfunctional behavior and willingness to exploit the Goyim on to the Goyim themselves.

    Shirley MacLaine is the naive shiksa being taken advantage of my her Macher boss. Jack Lemon is a hopeless nebbish who is willingly enabling the sexual abuse of his female coworkers in order to help secure his own sinecure at his company.

    It is implausible to believe that “LOVE” could have conquered all and brought Miss Kubelik and Bud Baxter together after she had attempted suicide.

    Fred MacMurry regretted making the movie in part because he was able to see through the machinations of the film. His fans were upset that he would play such a character is what was a really manipulative and unrealistic film and he felt he let them down.

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  85. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Abe
    Oh, my brothers, let us stop for a moment to just savor the gorgeousness and gorgeousity of this complete meltdown of perhaps THE MOST diehard bastion of liberalism in our culture. And pause for a moment to offer up a couple oxen each to He who hath made it happen- none other than our God-Emperor Donald J. Trump.

    At first I had just assumed the destruction of Harvey Weinstein was collateral damage in the liquidation of the Clinton Machine by Democratic Party-Inner Party overlords. As someone pointed out, they are PUBLICLY JOKING about Harvey's shenanigans from the podium of the Oscars only a couple years ago, so if he was to get his comeuppance- WHY NOW of all times?

    But now that this thing has exploded beyond my wildest expectations to kill the careers of several veritable A-listers, can things really be as they seem? Can this really be the work of the rising new cadre of hookup culture-scarred Millennial women-in-media executives who are 'not OK' with trading a few blow-jobs for the continuation of Roe-v-Wade? Did these guileless 4th Wave naifs really go to their cynical, 2nd Wave senior executive boss hags (women like Dona Karen and Hilary Clinton and Gloria Steinem who unspokenly know sexism scandals are only to be used against Republicans, not 'male-feminist' allies who are still needed to get you where you want to go) and put them on the spot to put-up-or-shut-up? And that under this pressure the boss hags folded, agreeing to enlist the forces of Fake News to run with this campaign instead of burying it like they had done so many times previously?

    If so, we can thank our Olympian President for it. They used their patented 'Republican sexist male' deathray on him during the election, the same one that had fried Republicans from milquetoast pro-abortion liberal Bob Packwood ("the limp-wristed 'decent' Republican played by Alan Alda on WEST WING was really based on me!") to squeaky-clean, Mormon boyscout Mitt Romney and his Fake Gaffe over having 'binders of women' ready to join his cabinet. When that reliably effective deathray bounced off our President like an AK-47 slug off Superman's sternum, and when the PussyHat marches fizzled into nothingness, can it be that these frustrated Millennial Feminist women-in-media executives decided to take out their rage on the entertainment and media industry scuzzballs they had tolerated for years simply because they were the most handy targets now?

    Deflecting a deadly attack to explode right in the faces of his enemies? ONLY TRUMP.

    Some of this looks like the reaction that occurs when you realize you’ve made a bad marriage decision. You lash out at your partner in a rage on the way to the final breakup. Some people on the left are in the middle of a divorce with other leftists.

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  86. eah says:

    OT

    MTA replacing ‘ladies and gentleman’ with gender-neutral announcements

    The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is nixing the phrase “ladies and gentlemen” in New York City subway and bus announcements and replacing it with gender-inclusive language…MTA subway conductors and bus drivers have been instructed to use gender-neutral language when communicating, such as “passengers,” “riders” and “everyone.” Pre-recorded messages that do not comply with the new policy will be updated.

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Relatively mild to start calling "ladies and gentlemen" "passengers" instead, in NYC in 2017.
    , @Desiderius
    How far we've fallen in ten short years.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WZAaCVsWjc
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  87. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It's amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won't go wrong even after 3,000 years.

    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It’s amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won’t go wrong even after 3,000 years.

    True, true. However, this doesn’t protect you from a false accusation, as happened to Joseph in the matter of Potiphar’s wife. It’s amazing how the warnings against false rape accusations, ring true even after 4000 years.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    We have more gadgets than the ancients but human nature has not changed one whit and their understanding of human nature was miles ahead of that of any modern SJW. The master or mistress seducing or attempting to seduce the household help, goes on to this day.
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  88. guest says:
    @anonymous-antimarxist
    Steve,

    So Weiner knows that 2nd & 3rd wave feminism is just radical Jewish anti-goyim anti-family subversive ethnic warfare. Doesn't stop him from using it as a cudgel against the cis hetero HUWHYTE male.

    But how much else of "Mad Men" is another example of Jewish projection of their own "Ordeal of Civility" onto WASP culture.

    Don Draper, is really just what Weiner imagines what he would be if had Jon Hamm's looks.

    Knowing what I know now, I can't believe I wasted my time on watching that crap.

    “But how much else of ‘Mad Men’ is just another example of Jewish projection of their own ‘Ordeal of Civility’ onto WASP culture”

    James O’Meara published a book called End of an Era: Mad Men and the Ordeal of Civility arguing just that. I get the impetus to take an attractive, successfully, well-groomed early-60s white suburban couple like the Drapers–who appear to have emerged from an advertisement of the era–amd show how their real lives fell short of the image. But think of the mindset behind taking characters like that and dragging them through the mud like the did. It’s gross. So much of Serious Hollywood is just sordid. You almost have to think there’s an agenda behind it, or the writers are messed up and honestly assume everyone else is, too.

    I never understood why they needed the gimmick of Don being a fraud and waiting for people to find out. Smoking and boozing Madison Ave. 1960, with colorful fashion magazine style, isn’t a fruitful enough premise? You need to show how WASP America was fraudulent once again?

    O’Meara, as I recall, pinpoints Mad Men’s “jump the shark” moment to when the firm prostitutes busty office manager Joan out so they can land the Jaguar account. His point being that the partners at that kind of firm would never have allowed it. I don’t know about that, but to be fair the show presents Don Draper as opposed to the deal. They do it behind his back.

    That happens the season before Draper falls apart, becomes a full-blown alcoholic, and indirectly causes the firm to lose its independence in a merger with a bigger fish. Then he goes on a cross-country journey to “find himself,” or whatever. And at the end, just when I was afraid he was going to have a truly silly enlightened moment the Esalen retreat, the show ends brilliantly by giving Don the inspiration to steal hippy sentiment to sell Coca-Cola by creating the “I’d like to teach the world to sing” commercial.

    One thing I have to hand to the show, despite showing for instance how the Bad Old Days were rectified by feminine progress and removing cigarettes and non-stop drinking from the workplace, it was never on board with the hippies.

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  89. guest says:
    @Daniel H
    The entire show was a 7 year, 100 episode rip off of a cool 2 hour 1960 melodrama, "The Apartment", starring Fred MacMurray, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

    The Apartment had a more realistic portrayal of 1960s office culture and office villain in the role of Jeff Sheldrake (Fred MacMurray). Of course, being a 1960s film (came out in 1960, so really a 50s film) we needed a morally uplifting ending where Jack Lemon's character turns Shirley MacLaine's character into an honest woman, but Mad Men had it's own "uplifting" sentimental bullshit ending with that Coke commercial.

    Steve has said that he doesn't really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He's right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    Two other cool movies of 1960s business culture (Sleepers, as they are referred to by critics) are 1) King Murray (1969) and 2) Salesman (1969) by the Maysles brothers. Very good, very interesting view of a past that many of us lived through. No glamour except the lure of money in both of these, which is what business is fundamentally about.

    “Mad Men had its own ‘uplifting’ sentimental bulldogs ending with that Coke commercial”

    I felt the opposite. He’s exploiting hippy sentiment to sell Coke, not being sentimental.

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  90. What’s the big deal with country clubs anyhow? I’ve been to a couple because my friends’ parents were members, but never thought their pools were as good as the community pool, which had a ZIGZAG SLIDE!

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    • Replies: @Anon
    You can golf without a country club. You can swim in a pool without a country club. You can eat in a fine restaurant without a country club. Heck, you can even drink alcohol without a country club.

    I've never seen the appeal. Frankly, if the US had developed something like the quaint and civilized old British pub as a community hangout, there would be fewer country clubs. Unfortunately, our bars are populated by people with a myriad of personality disorders, and who tend to get violent while drunk.
    , @Jack D
    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion). The fanatical shunning that left such lasting damage on Weiner was really intended to protect your kids and keep them from marrying Jews (or if it was a Jewish club, to keep them away from non-Jews). Of course we've given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT - you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn't.

    Now the last time I visited a country club the average age was somewhere between 70 and death so that's not a consideration anymore. Later I guess it became that the country club golf courses were better than most public courses.
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  91. @Malcolm X-Lax
    Jimmy Page is protected by dark forces and therefore untouchable!

    Yes he’s part of the Blue Oyster Cult, cult of satanic hard rock guitarists. Tony Iommi is club secretary

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  92. My comment about this on CK thread is lost but here it goes again:

    There was a segment in season 4 of Mad Men about coworkers getting naked to “fuel creativity” that mirrors the indecent proposal that Weiner is alleged to have made his former asst/writer. It’s not clear if that predates this accusation.

    http://www.amc.com/shows/mad-men/video-extras/season-04/episode-06/talked-about-scene-episode-406-mad-men-peggy-bares-all

    None of this rises to the level of rape or uninvited grabbing of privates but the goal of the current witch trial mentality is to criminalize and ultimately monetize aggressive hetero- ( or even homo-) sexual advances which in a earlier era would have just been considered boorish behavior.

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  93. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Mad Men was the very last fiction TV series I ever watched. Now I do not even watch the NFL except when visiting my 91 year old father.

    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    The only movies I see are the ones that either Steve or TheRightStuff say are remotely worthwhile. The last movies I have seen are Dunkirk, Baby Driver, and Logan Lucky. I will go see Blade Runner 2047 and the new Kingsmen.

    I thought this was a very astute bit of media criticism perhaps inspired in part by our own ISTEVE.

    The Indispensable Future of White Masculinity - Vertigo Politix
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKNxuRL8kgY

    I liked Breaking Bad a lot, but even that show had its PC elements. If you want to see a good movie that makes a superficial attempt at being PC (but with a wink) watch Bone Tomahawk. It’s like the Searchers except in Bone Tomahawk the Indians are cannibals!

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  94. weiner and steve are in the closet. if they harass women it’s just a show.

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  95. guest says:
    @Jack D
    The sets and costumes were fun but I honestly never understood the appeal. The entire premise of assumed identity was very soap opera-ish right from the start and failed the basis "suspension of disbelief" test. I think the idea was supposed to be we were supposed to watch these awful people smoking and drinking and saying sexist things and we were supposed to feel superior to them while at the same time secretly wishing we were them. Any attempt to realistically depict what it is like to work in an office would be as exciting as watching paint dry so takeovers and other exciting events that happen once in a lifetime would happen every week.

    “takeovers and other exciting events that happened once in a lifetime would happen every week”

    Mad Men had a storytelling style similar to the epiphanic style of modern literature. A common complaint of people not “into” the show was that “nothing happens.” Which was partly them not paying attention, but partly true. It wasn’t plot-heavy, even when it went all “we need to do this and this to land the big client!” It was more about mood, character development (usually in the direction of being more icky), and so forth.

    But they wanted to entertain people, so things did happen. It’s just that they had them happen all at once, with Big, Shocking events. There was an episode where Don and his boss, Roger, have a low-key rivalry going on. They have a 12-martini lunch with oysters, despite Roger’s ulcer. Then they discover the elevator is out, and the more youthful Draper springs ahead upstairs. He wins when Roger graphically throws lunch up in front of clients when he arrives at the office.

    An entire season of Don Draper and Duck Philips kinda not liking eachother blows up when, first, Duck finagles a merger with an English company. We think Don’s doomed in an episode with the Cuban Missle Crisis as background, but then it turns out he doesn’t have a contract and the English get rid of Duck instead of him. Granted, I think they subtly set up the fact that Don was contract-free earlier, but really it’s kinda cheating to have the final confrontation begin and end in the space of like two seconds at a conference table with unflappable Don not being flapped at all.

    They went the other way, later, when Don has been backed into a corner due to his carelessness and alcoholism. The other partners can’t fire him without buying out his contract, which they don’t want to do. So they sit him down in the conference room and dictate a litany of do’s and don’ts he must follow upon penalty of forfeiting his share in the company. When they’re done, you expect a confrontation, but he’s just like, “Okay.” That’s the UN-shocking big scene.

    The most ridiculous example, probably, is why a guy got his foot run over by a lawnmower in the office. It more or less comes out of nowhere, and happens to a character introduced that episode apparently for that purpose.

    All of which, I think, was to forestall complaints about nothing happening, so that they could continue to tell their plot-light, low-key, moody character-driven stories. It’s not my preferred style. Whatever happened to tv shows where episodes actually tell their own stories, with beginning, middles, and ends? What’s Don up to this week? Oh, this is the one where he has to land the Graxerson account while his wife has the in-laws over and the dog has the flu.

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  96. In his strained verbiage, though, there’s one cogent sentence that explains much of Mad Men’s appeal to contemporary women: “What’s sexist in the office is fuel in the bedroom.”

    Perhaps, then, it ought to be left in the bedroom where it belongs, not sprayed with a fire hose into workplaces real or fictional.

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  97. guest says:
    @Daniel H
    The entire show was a 7 year, 100 episode rip off of a cool 2 hour 1960 melodrama, "The Apartment", starring Fred MacMurray, Shirley MacLaine and Jack Lemmon.

    The Apartment had a more realistic portrayal of 1960s office culture and office villain in the role of Jeff Sheldrake (Fred MacMurray). Of course, being a 1960s film (came out in 1960, so really a 50s film) we needed a morally uplifting ending where Jack Lemon's character turns Shirley MacLaine's character into an honest woman, but Mad Men had it's own "uplifting" sentimental bullshit ending with that Coke commercial.

    Steve has said that he doesn't really like watching these multi-year television serial dramas. He prefers movies. He's right on that. 90% of them are a time-sink.

    Two other cool movies of 1960s business culture (Sleepers, as they are referred to by critics) are 1) King Murray (1969) and 2) Salesman (1969) by the Maysles brothers. Very good, very interesting view of a past that many of us lived through. No glamour except the lure of money in both of these, which is what business is fundamentally about.

    I have vivid memories of being a kid watching the Apartment, thinking how cool it would be to hang out in 1960 New York bars drinking on New Year’s Eve.

    Now, the thought is kinda repulsive to me, but oh, the fact that people bothered to dress up, cared about decor, had manners, etc. It’s worth a little attempted suicide, alcoholism, and lung cancer, maybe.

    On the other hand, I was heartbroken by the idea of taking cold medicine and settling in to a night of tv dinner, only to be turned out to the night so someone could use my apartment for sex.

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  98. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Steve,

    So Weiner knows that 2nd & 3rd wave feminism is just radical Jewish anti-goyim anti-family subversive ethnic warfare. Doesn't stop him from using it as a cudgel against the cis hetero HUWHYTE male.

    But how much else of "Mad Men" is another example of Jewish projection of their own "Ordeal of Civility" onto WASP culture.

    Don Draper, is really just what Weiner imagines what he would be if had Jon Hamm's looks.

    Knowing what I know now, I can't believe I wasted my time on watching that crap.

    Please elaborate. What do you know now that you didn’t previously? Why do you view Mad Men as a waste of time?

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  99. guest says:
    @Mr. Anon

    -All those people in Hollywood who came from advertising/worked in commercials could have a TV show that lauded them instead of making fun of their careers as cheap salesmen. (This has happened before; one of the default careers for men in rom coms and comedies in general seems to be advertising, e.g. The Out-of-Towners).
     
    Yes, that's true. In those old 60s sex-comedies, it seems like the men always worked in advertising or publishing. And advertising was always painted as a glamorous career. Perhaps because a lot of writers got their start as ad-men.

    Jack Lemmon, mentioned above in connection to the Apartment, also starred as an advertising “account man” in Days of Wine and Roses. That was definitely unglamorous.

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    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Jack Lemmon, mentioned above in connection to the Apartment, also starred as an advertising “account man” in Days of Wine and Roses. That was definitely unglamorous.
     
    That's true - it wasn't portrayed as being glamorous.

    That was a good movie - depressing as Hell.

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  100. @Jack D
    How does your friend look in a bathing suit? We expect impossible beauty standards based on what we see online, on TV and film, in magazines, etc. The women you see in the media are top 1% in looks (and nowadays in lack of obesity). This is like saying that your office softball team doesn't play as well as the Dodgers.

    Women dress to excite the envy of other women and attract the attention of alphas. If they attract the attention of betas and below, their unwelcome attention has to be swatted down. What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male "harassers" meet the alpha test - they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below - fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)? Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?

    Good questions.

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  101. @Forbes

    What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male “harassers” meet the alpha test – they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below – fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)?
     
    Bingo!

    Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?
     
    This is the Hollywood version of the college campus "regret sex" that has been in the news for a few years--where months (sometimes a year or more) later, a co-ed claims non-consensual contact, therefore sexual assault/harassment.

    In both scenarios, emotional regret is triggered by the encounter failing to live up to expectations--expectations that mostly reside in the imagination as fantasy--Cinderella being the most obvious example.

    In college, the "hook up" that failed to engender a relationship as a couple, rather than the "friend with benefits" that it did, results in disappointment in the trade-off made. Such after-the-fact regret, cogitated on long enough, with sisterly input at evening-the-score, results in months-later accusations of sexual assault.

    In Hollywood, the complainant fermentation time is more single malt scotch, than beer. The failed expectations are married to the embarrassment of having lain down with such physically unattractive specimens--rather than the knight in shining armor.

    You can criticize men for "locker room" talk (mostly jocular bravado), but women are far more ruthless (and gossipy) when it comes to dishing on the relative shortcomings of their suitors.

    A retro channel recently showed “Come Blow Your Horn,” in which Frank Sinatra’s ploy of luring girls to ski resorts for auditions with non-existent producers is depicted as a smooth move, rather than grounds for a lawsuit. One “actress” who went to the resort seems remarkably untraumatized, even trying to arrange another “audition” with the younger brother, whom Sinatra tells that she isn’t really ambitious: “She’s having too much fun being discovered.”
    The point is, the girls in movies like “The Best of Everything” knew what to expect. One thing that has changed for the worse is people don’t warn their daughters (or their sons either, judging by that 18-year-old who faked 21 to get into a bar where Kevin Spacey bought him drink after drink), that folks ARE going to hit on them, and they need to avoid certain situations if that’s not what they want. Does it mean it’s “their fault”? No, but if someone’s plying you with alcohol, either don’t drink it or buy your own. A producer opens the door in his bathrobe? RUN. You’re having that very first cuddle session with that frat boy and you don’t want things to go too fast? Stay off the beer and drugs, and postpone things if HE looks like he’s had too many Jell-O shots or bong hits. I swear, these kids seem to have less preparation for real life than we had in jr high.
    Feminists say that the males should change THEIR behavior instead of putting all the responsibility on females (or younger males). Guess what–they WON’T. Worry about safety before you worry about equality.
    Little whippersnappers….

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    • Agree: Forbes
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  102. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rosamond Vincy
    What's the big deal with country clubs anyhow? I've been to a couple because my friends' parents were members, but never thought their pools were as good as the community pool, which had a ZIGZAG SLIDE!

    You can golf without a country club. You can swim in a pool without a country club. You can eat in a fine restaurant without a country club. Heck, you can even drink alcohol without a country club.

    I’ve never seen the appeal. Frankly, if the US had developed something like the quaint and civilized old British pub as a community hangout, there would be fewer country clubs. Unfortunately, our bars are populated by people with a myriad of personality disorders, and who tend to get violent while drunk.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonah
    As a general rule, golf courses at CCs are much better than munis. Much better. Nobody joins for unattainable restaurant excellence. It's for the golf and for the enforcement of social standards. The company you keep is why you pay to belong.

    If you aren't really well-off, this might give you an uncomfortable pang, but it's true: very few rich people (who have their own foibles as a group, but do tend to be smarter and more cultured) want to enjoy the finer things they've worked hard for with the Average Joe. Why would they?

    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It's virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion. But all that is the bare minimum at a decent CC. That's why you join one.
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  103. @anonymous-antimarxist
    Mad Men was the very last fiction TV series I ever watched. Now I do not even watch the NFL except when visiting my 91 year old father.

    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    The only movies I see are the ones that either Steve or TheRightStuff say are remotely worthwhile. The last movies I have seen are Dunkirk, Baby Driver, and Logan Lucky. I will go see Blade Runner 2047 and the new Kingsmen.

    I thought this was a very astute bit of media criticism perhaps inspired in part by our own ISTEVE.

    The Indispensable Future of White Masculinity - Vertigo Politix
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKNxuRL8kgY

    Thanks to ISTEVE, and the dawn of the Alt-Right, once red-pilled you can never watch that garbage again.

    What would you tell a family member so that they see things the way you do?

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  104. @Forbes

    What is interesting in what is going on now is that by many measures the male “harassers” meet the alpha test – they are rich, powerful entertainment figures. But physically they are betas and below – fat, balding, etc. Would they be getting ratted out in this way if they were not just rich and powerful but also handsome and attractive (or even just handsome and attractive)?
     
    Bingo!

    Does their physical repulsiveness outweigh their bank balance in the lizard brains of the women that they hit on?
     
    This is the Hollywood version of the college campus "regret sex" that has been in the news for a few years--where months (sometimes a year or more) later, a co-ed claims non-consensual contact, therefore sexual assault/harassment.

    In both scenarios, emotional regret is triggered by the encounter failing to live up to expectations--expectations that mostly reside in the imagination as fantasy--Cinderella being the most obvious example.

    In college, the "hook up" that failed to engender a relationship as a couple, rather than the "friend with benefits" that it did, results in disappointment in the trade-off made. Such after-the-fact regret, cogitated on long enough, with sisterly input at evening-the-score, results in months-later accusations of sexual assault.

    In Hollywood, the complainant fermentation time is more single malt scotch, than beer. The failed expectations are married to the embarrassment of having lain down with such physically unattractive specimens--rather than the knight in shining armor.

    You can criticize men for "locker room" talk (mostly jocular bravado), but women are far more ruthless (and gossipy) when it comes to dishing on the relative shortcomings of their suitors.

    You can criticize men for “locker room” talk (mostly jocular bravado), but women are far more ruthless (and gossipy) when it comes to dishing on the relative shortcomings of their suitors.

    You, sir, are a helluva writer! Chapeau!

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  105. Jonah says:
    @Anon
    You can golf without a country club. You can swim in a pool without a country club. You can eat in a fine restaurant without a country club. Heck, you can even drink alcohol without a country club.

    I've never seen the appeal. Frankly, if the US had developed something like the quaint and civilized old British pub as a community hangout, there would be fewer country clubs. Unfortunately, our bars are populated by people with a myriad of personality disorders, and who tend to get violent while drunk.

    As a general rule, golf courses at CCs are much better than munis. Much better. Nobody joins for unattainable restaurant excellence. It’s for the golf and for the enforcement of social standards. The company you keep is why you pay to belong.

    If you aren’t really well-off, this might give you an uncomfortable pang, but it’s true: very few rich people (who have their own foibles as a group, but do tend to be smarter and more cultured) want to enjoy the finer things they’ve worked hard for with the Average Joe. Why would they?

    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It’s virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion. But all that is the bare minimum at a decent CC. That’s why you join one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It’s virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion.

    I very seldom see objectionable behavior in public places. The oddest thing I've seen recently was two men sitting next to us in an eatery having a TMI conversation. We realized as we left that one was the AA sponsor of the other.

    The one thing you do see is aggressive informality in clothing. Where it really sticks out is in churches.
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  106. Jack D says:
    @Rosamond Vincy
    What's the big deal with country clubs anyhow? I've been to a couple because my friends' parents were members, but never thought their pools were as good as the community pool, which had a ZIGZAG SLIDE!

    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion). The fanatical shunning that left such lasting damage on Weiner was really intended to protect your kids and keep them from marrying Jews (or if it was a Jewish club, to keep them away from non-Jews). Of course we’ve given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT – you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn’t.

    Now the last time I visited a country club the average age was somewhere between 70 and death so that’s not a consideration anymore. Later I guess it became that the country club golf courses were better than most public courses.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion).

    Not the original appeal because in-town clubs and sports clubs and country clubs were commonly all-male institutions where families weren't welcome and where even the staff would be bereft of women.
    , @Art Deco
    Of course we’ve given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT – you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn’t.

    I'll wager you if you unpack it that inter-racial marriages are seldom anything but intra-class marriages and formally inter-confessional marriages conjoin people of the same substantive confession: the Congregation of Whatever.
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  107. Art Deco says:
    @Daniel H
    Yeah the old guard traders at Morgan Stanley pulled a coup and ousted the simple, blockheaded Purcell who represented the old stockbroker customer service culture of Dean Witter. Where did that get Morgan Stanley? Tens of $billions in losses and a necessary bailout from the American taxpayer. The same power struggles happened at Merrill Lynch, where the new breed of "Traders" ruined a stable and prosperous company and put it out of business, again with a massive bailout from you and me. And the scenario was repeated again when UBS gobbled up a very good, old-line stock broker Paine Webber.

    Stockbrokering is not easy. Its ponderous, difficult and a good stockbroker devotes years to build a client base through trust and excellent fiduciary care of his clients' assets. But it is very profitable and stable business, it just takes time for good stock broker to build his base and the real rewards come later in life. These little shit traders, on the other hand, fresh from elite business schools and PhD STEM programs, who never sold as much as an ice cream cone in their lives, brought these institutions to their knees within a few years, all the while banking massive bonuses on Fake profits that unwound and sank the companies when the market crashed.

    After 2008, I wish there was a law stating that we good have branded Wall Street traders with some identifying mark on their forehead, so that the rest of us could have mocked and abused them for the remainder of their larcenous lives.

    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest. The ‘bailouts’ wherein the Treasury or the Federal Reserve lost money were of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the auto industry components, and AIG (in descending order of losses).

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    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Sister Mary explains it all to us!

    They got a deal which no private entity would have freely offered. If they'd have kept Notre Dame/U of C "deplorable" Phil Purcell, and held on to Discover longer, maybe permanently, they would've never had to take government aid (some firms were forced to) or merge with Smith Barney.
    , @Daniel H
    >>>Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest.

    Ahhh, that old argument, which I have been hearing ad nauseam since 2008 from defenders of Wall Street, that they got loans (bridge loan?) and paid them back with INTEREST too, imagine that. How many of us could have been bailed out of a difficult financial situation if we could only have found a creditor to lend us money until the market regained it's senses and brought our assets back up to their "proper" level.

    You miss the point, which 99.999% of us have to live by. Here it is real simple: payment is due, you don't have the cash, nobody will lend you money, you are bankrupt, your assets are sold, at fire-sale prices. That is the way the world works for 99.999 % of us, it should work that way for the .001% too.

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  108. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D
    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion). The fanatical shunning that left such lasting damage on Weiner was really intended to protect your kids and keep them from marrying Jews (or if it was a Jewish club, to keep them away from non-Jews). Of course we've given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT - you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn't.

    Now the last time I visited a country club the average age was somewhere between 70 and death so that's not a consideration anymore. Later I guess it became that the country club golf courses were better than most public courses.

    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion).

    Not the original appeal because in-town clubs and sports clubs and country clubs were commonly all-male institutions where families weren’t welcome and where even the staff would be bereft of women.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    In-town is the opposite of country.
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  109. Art Deco says:
    @Jonah
    As a general rule, golf courses at CCs are much better than munis. Much better. Nobody joins for unattainable restaurant excellence. It's for the golf and for the enforcement of social standards. The company you keep is why you pay to belong.

    If you aren't really well-off, this might give you an uncomfortable pang, but it's true: very few rich people (who have their own foibles as a group, but do tend to be smarter and more cultured) want to enjoy the finer things they've worked hard for with the Average Joe. Why would they?

    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It's virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion. But all that is the bare minimum at a decent CC. That's why you join one.

    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It’s virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion.

    I very seldom see objectionable behavior in public places. The oddest thing I’ve seen recently was two men sitting next to us in an eatery having a TMI conversation. We realized as we left that one was the AA sponsor of the other.

    The one thing you do see is aggressive informality in clothing. Where it really sticks out is in churches.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    "I very seldom see objectionable behavior in public places."

    You need to get out more.
    , @stillCARealist
    Slob-ification vs. aggressive informality in clothing. Nice.

    As to churches and attire, the reason people don't dress up for church anymore is because that's associated with pretense and social vanity. You're closer to God now if you don't try to impress anyone with your clothing. It's a viable perspective if not taken to the point of neglect.
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  110. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Jack D
    People have been (correctly) noticing that most of the celebs here are Jewish and wondering why that is. It occurs to me that it's a "choose the form of your destructor" thing. Lots and lots of celebs self destruct. As I mentioned before, being a celebrity is not a healthy or normal thing and can mess with your head (not that these folks were mentally well balanced to begin with). You begin to think that you are immune from all sorts of rules and limits that apply to lesser mortals. Maybe even the laws of physics. You can drive as fast as you want, fly your plane in bad weather, approach random strangers for sex, buy as many drugs as you want, etc. Almost every thing you ask for, you get so naturally over time you ask for more and more things from more and more people (and/or the gods) and one day you cross the line and it's kaboom.

    But for non-Jewish ones, it mostly seems to be drugs or alcohol. A weakness for the bottle, especially, is a well known problem for northern Europeans. Whereas it seems to be less of a problem for Jews.

    The other thing, as I mentioned in another post, is that these guys were all, despite their wealth, fundamentally nebbishy, fat, ugly, etc. If JFK Jr. (or Sr. for that matter) asked to do perverted stuff in your presence, what female would not be honored? But these guys were physically revolting and that did not overcome their wealth and fame (at least in the end - it worked for many years).

    these guys were all, despite their wealth, fundamentally nebbishy, fat, ugly, etc.

    Pretty much the general picture. Warren Beatty had scads of women following him around hoping to be the one chosen. Supposedly he’s had a very large number of groupie encounters. But then Warren’s smooth and suave, in contrast to the Weinstein types who were just clumsy grabbers. There’s a level of anger that’s coming out about having had to get it on with cruddy icky guys to get somewhere in show biz. Who’s out there complaining about Beatty?

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  111. anonguy says:

    In case anyone hasn’t noticed, men dating women significantly younger than themselves is becoming sexual harassment simply by the fact of the age difference even if both parties feel they have consented..

    Because of the age difference, there is typically a power difference. And in power difference situation, no true consent can be given.

    Seems to be part of the emerging norm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corn
    I think you’re onto something. Not to argue from my anecdotal experience but it seems to me in decades past if a man married a much younger woman there would be lots of negative reaction, but it was usually along the lines of “she’s a gold digger” or “what the heck does she see in him?”
    Now if a man marries a much younger woman, the response in my circle of acquaintances is often “pervert”, “pedo” etc.
    , @Desiderius

    Because of the age difference, there is typically a power difference. And in power difference situation, no true consent can be given.

    Seems to be part of the emerging norm.
     
    That's what happens when you let your norms be set by middle-aged women without much in the way of prospects.
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  112. Art Deco says:
    @Jack D
    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion). The fanatical shunning that left such lasting damage on Weiner was really intended to protect your kids and keep them from marrying Jews (or if it was a Jewish club, to keep them away from non-Jews). Of course we've given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT - you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn't.

    Now the last time I visited a country club the average age was somewhere between 70 and death so that's not a consideration anymore. Later I guess it became that the country club golf courses were better than most public courses.

    Of course we’ve given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT – you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn’t.

    I’ll wager you if you unpack it that inter-racial marriages are seldom anything but intra-class marriages and formally inter-confessional marriages conjoin people of the same substantive confession: the Congregation of Whatever.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Johann Ricke

    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest.
     
    Actually, these banks (or, in fact, their shareholders) ended up footing a good chunk of the bailout via multi-billion dollar payments for problems with moribund institutions they were forced to acquire - in shotgun marriages - by the feds. This is why Bank of America has dropped in half since the mid-2000's, whereas the Dow has almost doubled, whereas Citigroup has fallen over 80%.
    , @Hibernian
    You're right about the latter, dead wrong about the former.
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  113. Jack D says:
    @anonymous
    Most of the men who have been caught up in this were married. They should have been laying with their wives and only with their wives and then none of this would have happened. It’s amazing how, if you stick with the Ten Commandments you won’t go wrong even after 3,000 years.

    True, true. However, this doesn't protect you from a false accusation, as happened to Joseph in the matter of Potiphar's wife. It's amazing how the warnings against false rape accusations, ring true even after 4000 years.

    We have more gadgets than the ancients but human nature has not changed one whit and their understanding of human nature was miles ahead of that of any modern SJW. The master or mistress seducing or attempting to seduce the household help, goes on to this day.

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  114. @Art Deco
    Of course we’ve given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT – you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn’t.

    I'll wager you if you unpack it that inter-racial marriages are seldom anything but intra-class marriages and formally inter-confessional marriages conjoin people of the same substantive confession: the Congregation of Whatever.

    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest.

    Actually, these banks (or, in fact, their shareholders) ended up footing a good chunk of the bailout via multi-billion dollar payments for problems with moribund institutions they were forced to acquire – in shotgun marriages – by the feds. This is why Bank of America has dropped in half since the mid-2000′s, whereas the Dow has almost doubled, whereas Citigroup has fallen over 80%.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I don't think Morgan Stanley was forced to aquire another institution. They took Smith Barney off of Citibank's hands a few years down the road.
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  115. Hibernian says:
    @anonymouslee
    the pre-boomer anglosphere really was unimaginably nice

    here's a post-war scandal for you: a major public figure--a philosopher!--is shamed before the nation

    Joad once boasted in print, "I cheat the railway company whenever I can."[17] On 12 April 1948 Joad was caught travelling on a Waterloo to Exeter train without a valid ticket.[18] When he failed to give a satisfactory explanation, he was convicted of fare dodging and fined £2 (£67 as of 2017). This made front-page headlines in the national newspapers, destroyed his hopes of a peerage and resulted in his dismissal from the BBC.[19] The humiliation of this had a severe effect on Joad's health, and he soon became bed-confined at his home in Hampstead.[citation needed] Joad renounced his agnosticism and returned to the Christianity of the Church of England, which he detailed in his book The Recovery of Belief, published in 1952
     

    Any relation to Tom Joad?

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  116. Hibernian says:
    @eah
    OT

    MTA replacing ‘ladies and gentleman’ with gender-neutral announcements

    The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is nixing the phrase “ladies and gentlemen” in New York City subway and bus announcements and replacing it with gender-inclusive language...MTA subway conductors and bus drivers have been instructed to use gender-neutral language when communicating, such as “passengers,” “riders” and “everyone.” Pre-recorded messages that do not comply with the new policy will be updated.

    https://twitter.com/lorettatheprole/status/927384204832276480

    Relatively mild to start calling “ladies and gentlemen” “passengers” instead, in NYC in 2017.

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    • Replies: @eah
    I suppose.

    https://cdn-03.independent.ie/incoming/article35469504.ece/6dd7d/AUTOCROP/w620/14192042_10153.jpg
    , @eah
    I suppose.

    https://twitter.com/TheEarlOfMinto/status/929083100134506496
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  117. Hibernian says:
    @Art Deco
    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest. The 'bailouts' wherein the Treasury or the Federal Reserve lost money were of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the auto industry components, and AIG (in descending order of losses).

    Sister Mary explains it all to us!

    They got a deal which no private entity would have freely offered. If they’d have kept Notre Dame/U of C “deplorable” Phil Purcell, and held on to Discover longer, maybe permanently, they would’ve never had to take government aid (some firms were forced to) or merge with Smith Barney.

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  118. Hibernian says:
    @Art Deco
    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It’s virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion.

    I very seldom see objectionable behavior in public places. The oddest thing I've seen recently was two men sitting next to us in an eatery having a TMI conversation. We realized as we left that one was the AA sponsor of the other.

    The one thing you do see is aggressive informality in clothing. Where it really sticks out is in churches.

    “I very seldom see objectionable behavior in public places.”

    You need to get out more.

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  119. Hibernian says:
    @Art Deco
    Of course we’ve given that up now and people are SO much happier that they fall in love with people from different races and religions with whom they have nothing in common. Such marriages work out GREAT – you can tell because divorce has really dropped off to zero since families stopped interfering with their kids choices. Oh, no wait, it hasn’t.

    I'll wager you if you unpack it that inter-racial marriages are seldom anything but intra-class marriages and formally inter-confessional marriages conjoin people of the same substantive confession: the Congregation of Whatever.

    You’re right about the latter, dead wrong about the former.

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  120. Hibernian says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest.
     
    Actually, these banks (or, in fact, their shareholders) ended up footing a good chunk of the bailout via multi-billion dollar payments for problems with moribund institutions they were forced to acquire - in shotgun marriages - by the feds. This is why Bank of America has dropped in half since the mid-2000's, whereas the Dow has almost doubled, whereas Citigroup has fallen over 80%.

    I don’t think Morgan Stanley was forced to aquire another institution. They took Smith Barney off of Citibank’s hands a few years down the road.

    Read More
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  121. @anonymouslee
    the pre-boomer anglosphere really was unimaginably nice

    here's a post-war scandal for you: a major public figure--a philosopher!--is shamed before the nation

    Joad once boasted in print, "I cheat the railway company whenever I can."[17] On 12 April 1948 Joad was caught travelling on a Waterloo to Exeter train without a valid ticket.[18] When he failed to give a satisfactory explanation, he was convicted of fare dodging and fined £2 (£67 as of 2017). This made front-page headlines in the national newspapers, destroyed his hopes of a peerage and resulted in his dismissal from the BBC.[19] The humiliation of this had a severe effect on Joad's health, and he soon became bed-confined at his home in Hampstead.[citation needed] Joad renounced his agnosticism and returned to the Christianity of the Church of England, which he detailed in his book The Recovery of Belief, published in 1952
     

    Funny that reading the wiki article on Joad it appears he was happy to have mistresses and believe in the ‘inferior mind’ of women. And yet his decline and shunning was caused by not paying a train ticket. It’s a moral reversal of now – where private lives and thoughts are punishable. Illegal actions were regarded as immoral then. It was like moral version of broken window theory – one unpaid train ticket and you’re finished.

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  122. @S. Anonyia
    Try watching British and foreign historicals. The Last Kingdom is a nice series that depicts hierarchy and loyalty in a positive and refreshing light.

    Yes, Last Kingdom is good. Some corny filmmaking here and there but overall a great depiction of the clash between the second and third waves of British conquerors. It’s refreshing to watch a show about power dynamics that yet refuses to lecture us about them.

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  123. If he pronounces it the same was Anthony Weiner does, well, that in itself is sexual harassment, if not assault.

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  124. @Anon
    Rock musicians, on average, don't look like Harvey Weinstein or Weinstein's kind. They tend to become famous when they're in their twenties and in their better-looking years, and on the whole, they attract just enough women genuinely interested in having sex with them that they don't seem to resort to sexual harassment for power-trip reasons. In fact, if you look at guys like John Lennon, Kurt Cobain, and Elliott Smith, they're just as likely to end up being victimized by manipulative and sociopathic women (Yoko Ono, Courtney Love, Jennifer Chiba).

    Also, most rock musicians aren't Jews. However, some Jewish musicians have a reputation for being massive jerks to the people around them: Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Gene Simmons, Paul Simon, Barbra Streisand, Art Garfunkel, Amy Winehouse, Phil Spector, the above-mentioned Courtney Love, etc.

    One man well-known in the classical music world for being a full-blown sexual harasser was Leonard Bernstein. He groped everybody, male or female, according to the gossip.

    The best male rock musicians, and I mean the whole of popular music, tend to be average or even a bit ugly. Yes, there are exceptions, but the really good ones, like Elton John, are not oil on canvas.

    Their singing and playing and performing and emoting really slays the girls and makes their averageness not matter a lick. And they know this.

    The Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks…. none of those guys were objectively handsome. But it didn’t matter. Don’t get me started on Tom Petty, RIP.

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  125. @Art Deco
    Leaving aside the fact that the Average Joe in this country is now more often an Average Jose or an Average Jamal, the slob-ification of this country is hard to deny. It’s virtually impossible to take your family out to a restaurant and see people with good manners, wearing good clothes, behaving in an urbane fashion.

    I very seldom see objectionable behavior in public places. The oddest thing I've seen recently was two men sitting next to us in an eatery having a TMI conversation. We realized as we left that one was the AA sponsor of the other.

    The one thing you do see is aggressive informality in clothing. Where it really sticks out is in churches.

    Slob-ification vs. aggressive informality in clothing. Nice.

    As to churches and attire, the reason people don’t dress up for church anymore is because that’s associated with pretense and social vanity. You’re closer to God now if you don’t try to impress anyone with your clothing. It’s a viable perspective if not taken to the point of neglect.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corn
    I read somewhere once there is a sort of inverse correlation between income and church attire plus a class factor added in. If you go to a poor black church you will see scores of men in suits and women in fancy, often outlandish dresses or hats. Go to a suburban white church and men and women step out of their Grand Cherokee or BMW and walk into church in modest sundresses, and polo shirt/shorts.

    The poor dress up for church to show they can, the rich dress down to show they can.
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  126. Corn says:
    @anonguy
    In case anyone hasn't noticed, men dating women significantly younger than themselves is becoming sexual harassment simply by the fact of the age difference even if both parties feel they have consented..

    Because of the age difference, there is typically a power difference. And in power difference situation, no true consent can be given.

    Seems to be part of the emerging norm.

    I think you’re onto something. Not to argue from my anecdotal experience but it seems to me in decades past if a man married a much younger woman there would be lots of negative reaction, but it was usually along the lines of “she’s a gold digger” or “what the heck does she see in him?”
    Now if a man marries a much younger woman, the response in my circle of acquaintances is often “pervert”, “pedo” etc.

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  127. Corn says:
    @stillCARealist
    Slob-ification vs. aggressive informality in clothing. Nice.

    As to churches and attire, the reason people don't dress up for church anymore is because that's associated with pretense and social vanity. You're closer to God now if you don't try to impress anyone with your clothing. It's a viable perspective if not taken to the point of neglect.

    I read somewhere once there is a sort of inverse correlation between income and church attire plus a class factor added in. If you go to a poor black church you will see scores of men in suits and women in fancy, often outlandish dresses or hats. Go to a suburban white church and men and women step out of their Grand Cherokee or BMW and walk into church in modest sundresses, and polo shirt/shorts.

    The poor dress up for church to show they can, the rich dress down to show they can.

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  128. Svigor says:

    But the overall message was that within every well-groomed and mannered WASP captain of industry is a wild id who only got where he is by committing desertion and stealing someone else’s identity.

    I watched a few seasons of Mad Men, and turning Draper’s past over in my head was the only point of interest. I suspect it has something to do with Jews and their classic alienation issues, but I never got much further than that. Maybe, “we’re all alienated now, goy.” In any event, that wasn’t enough to keep the show interesting so I never went far with it.

    We are rapidly reaching the stage of farce. In 19XX, Celebrity Y accidentally brushed against my arm as he was passing me in the hallway. In 19ZZ, Celebrity K told me, in reference to a dress I was wearing, “that color looks good on you.” In 19YY, Celebrity B patted me on the shoulder once as I was blocking a doorway and said, “excuse me I need to get by.” Behead them all!

    What’s this “we” shit?

    Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women, as in Saudi Arabia, and that way no man could ever insult the honor of our blushing virgins again.

    I wholeheartedly endorse this…for the entertainment biz.

    I suspect most viewers found Don Draper and Roger Sterling a lot more compelling than Peggy Olson.

    Roger Sterling was the other thing I found interesting about the show. He was constantly funny. A show about him (and Red), I might’ve watched all the way through.

    That’s Conquest’s Second Law, but has nothing to do with the decline of Mad Men. It is an immutable law of television that all long-running shows morph into soap operas.

    The life cycle of a TV show. First season, sometimes two, is a mixed bag. The ideas are there, but the team is still gelling in terms of workflow and skill. After that, the peak seasons. The crew is hitting on all eight cylinders, and the writers and producers still have good ideas, big and small, to put into the show. After that, the decline. The cast is eating up more and more of the budget (IIRC, pay raises are mandatory), and the creative side is exhausted. This usually sets in around season five, but sometimes it can be forestalled. It’s all relative, of course; a good show’s declining years are still better than a bad show’s peak years. Seven years or so is the natural lifespan of a TV show (Breaking Bad is a good example of a show that had a story to tell, got it told, and retired before the decline set in; it ran for five seasons).

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  129. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Bill
    The Office was pretty realistic.

    The story arc where Michael starts his own business was great.

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  130. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Dave from Oz

    @16 Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women,

     

    Or make em dress neck to wrist, the way that men have to.

    It’s the weirdest thing if you catch a Fox News morning show while channel surfing: 2 guys in suits sandwiching a blonde in essentially a sleeveless cocktail dress.

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    • Replies: @Swizzle Stick
    I always wonder, "Isn't it cold in that studio? Isn't she freezing?"
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  131. Daniel H says:
    @Art Deco
    Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest. The 'bailouts' wherein the Treasury or the Federal Reserve lost money were of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the auto industry components, and AIG (in descending order of losses).

    >>>Again, the banks (and those 2 securities firms) received bridge loans which they paid back with interest.

    Ahhh, that old argument, which I have been hearing ad nauseam since 2008 from defenders of Wall Street, that they got loans (bridge loan?) and paid them back with INTEREST too, imagine that. How many of us could have been bailed out of a difficult financial situation if we could only have found a creditor to lend us money until the market regained it’s senses and brought our assets back up to their “proper” level.

    You miss the point, which 99.999% of us have to live by. Here it is real simple: payment is due, you don’t have the cash, nobody will lend you money, you are bankrupt, your assets are sold, at fire-sale prices. That is the way the world works for 99.999 % of us, it should work that way for the .001% too.

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    • Agree: BB753
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  132. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @19491950
    What about Iggy Pop? What about all the rock stars who have gone gold and platinum? Dustin Hoffman was a movie star....... but where are the rock stars? Are they next?

    Iggy was the origin of that couplet, “rock out with your cock out”. Ig showed that snake every night for years and unlike Jim Morrison never got busted for it.

    It’s big by any standard, but because the rest of him is so scrawny it takes on mammoth visual connotations.

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  133. @AndrewR
    I can't imagine actually wanting to see that woman without clothing.

    Are you gay?

    She’s not a model, but she’s attractive enough.

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    • Agree: Intelligent Dasein
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    I was obviously going off the photo in the link.
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  134. DBowman says:

    Steve, what’s your take on the whole Susan Ross thing on Seinfeld? She and her parents seem pretty WASPish, but the treatment meted out to her is terrible. Seems like there are deep seated issues there..

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  135. @S. Anonyia
    Try watching British and foreign historicals. The Last Kingdom is a nice series that depicts hierarchy and loyalty in a positive and refreshing light.

    Try watching British and foreign historicals.

    That’s the conclusion we Calvinists have reached. The largely British-made historical miniseries/short series format combines the scope for in-depth plot and character development with stories that begin and end. We prefer literary adaptations, e.g. from novels by Austen, Dickens, Trollope, etc., but there are other good ones such as The White Queen, Wolf Hall, War and Peace, Parade’s End, Victoria, and so on that have high production values, and that follow a novel or else actual historical events (The Crown also fits in here), thereby avoiding the boring plot meanderings and character drift of open-ended American-style series.

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  136. @Spud Boy
    Is this the new strategy in the appropriation phase of the civil rights movement: Accuse every straight white male in the country of sexual misconduct?
    .
    .

    No, just some strategic Jews.

    This is the usual nice white ladies maintaining plausible deniability like they do with controlling black population through Planned Parenthood.

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  137. @anonguy
    In case anyone hasn't noticed, men dating women significantly younger than themselves is becoming sexual harassment simply by the fact of the age difference even if both parties feel they have consented..

    Because of the age difference, there is typically a power difference. And in power difference situation, no true consent can be given.

    Seems to be part of the emerging norm.

    Because of the age difference, there is typically a power difference. And in power difference situation, no true consent can be given.

    Seems to be part of the emerging norm.

    That’s what happens when you let your norms be set by middle-aged women without much in the way of prospects.

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  138. @Art Deco
    The original appeal of the country club was that it was supposed to be a place where your children could hang out with the children of other people of your race, religion and social class and therefore make suitable matches (whereas at the public pool you might end up with someone riff-raff from the other side of the tracks or of the wrong religion).

    Not the original appeal because in-town clubs and sports clubs and country clubs were commonly all-male institutions where families weren't welcome and where even the staff would be bereft of women.

    In-town is the opposite of country.

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  139. eah says:
    @Hibernian
    Relatively mild to start calling "ladies and gentlemen" "passengers" instead, in NYC in 2017.

    I suppose.

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  140. Wilkey says:

    “The ism that actually energizes Matthew Weiner, the one that one helps him get up in the morning is anti-gentilism”

    Can we find a better sounding term for Jews who hate non-Jews than “anti-gentilism”? It sounds, well, a little too gentle.

    How about anti-Europeanism? Or anti-goyism? Or Jewish supremacist?

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  141. JohnnyD says:

    I don’t think any ethnocentric Jewish males take feminism seriously, since Jewish culture is pretty chauvinistic.

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  142. eah says:
    @Hibernian
    Relatively mild to start calling "ladies and gentlemen" "passengers" instead, in NYC in 2017.

    I suppose.

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  143. Mr. Anon says:
    @guest
    Jack Lemmon, mentioned above in connection to the Apartment, also starred as an advertising "account man" in Days of Wine and Roses. That was definitely unglamorous.

    Jack Lemmon, mentioned above in connection to the Apartment, also starred as an advertising “account man” in Days of Wine and Roses. That was definitely unglamorous.

    That’s true – it wasn’t portrayed as being glamorous.

    That was a good movie – depressing as Hell.

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    • Replies: @whorefinder
    It might be more fair to say that a lot of Hollywood used to be admen, so when they need to depict a man in a job, they go for what they know, whether its portrayed positively or negatively.
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  144. Actually, it’s interesting how their behavior clearly proves the country and golf clubs were quite right to deny them memberships…

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  145. @eah
    OT

    MTA replacing ‘ladies and gentleman’ with gender-neutral announcements

    The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is nixing the phrase “ladies and gentlemen” in New York City subway and bus announcements and replacing it with gender-inclusive language...MTA subway conductors and bus drivers have been instructed to use gender-neutral language when communicating, such as “passengers,” “riders” and “everyone.” Pre-recorded messages that do not comply with the new policy will be updated.

    https://twitter.com/lorettatheprole/status/927384204832276480

    How far we’ve fallen in ten short years.

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  146. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Mr. Anon

    -All those people in Hollywood who came from advertising/worked in commercials could have a TV show that lauded them instead of making fun of their careers as cheap salesmen. (This has happened before; one of the default careers for men in rom coms and comedies in general seems to be advertising, e.g. The Out-of-Towners).
     
    Yes, that's true. In those old 60s sex-comedies, it seems like the men always worked in advertising or publishing. And advertising was always painted as a glamorous career. Perhaps because a lot of writers got their start as ad-men.

    Perhaps because a lot of writers got their start as ad-men.

    Donald P. Bellisario, the man who created Quantum Leap, Magnum P.I., and NCIS, had a very successful career as an ad man before he made the big leap (the quantum leap?) into show business.

    Interestingly, Bellisario served in the Marines in the same unit as Lee Harvey Oswald. Bellisario believed Oswald did the assassination, and made an episode of Quantum Leap where Sam leaps into Oswald at various points in his life, all to show how Oswald was led to kill JFK.

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  147. whorefinder says: • Website
    @Mr. Anon

    Jack Lemmon, mentioned above in connection to the Apartment, also starred as an advertising “account man” in Days of Wine and Roses. That was definitely unglamorous.
     
    That's true - it wasn't portrayed as being glamorous.

    That was a good movie - depressing as Hell.

    It might be more fair to say that a lot of Hollywood used to be admen, so when they need to depict a man in a job, they go for what they know, whether its portrayed positively or negatively.

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  148. AndrewR says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    Are you gay?

    http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/e5426757be42466dbfef3ce2862b7061/baftala-7th-annual-tv-tea-party-btwtk8.jpg

    She's not a model, but she's attractive enough.

    I was obviously going off the photo in the link.

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  149. @Dave from Oz

    @16 Also note Weiner looking down Kater’s dress in the photo. I think the best thing to do at this point is to have separate workplaces for men and women,

     

    Or make em dress neck to wrist, the way that men have to.

    The Muslims have a fix for that.

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  150. @Dave Pinsen
    It's the weirdest thing if you catch a Fox News morning show while channel surfing: 2 guys in suits sandwiching a blonde in essentially a sleeveless cocktail dress.

    I always wonder, “Isn’t it cold in that studio? Isn’t she freezing?”

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