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Here at the Unz Review, Anatoly Karlin has a fun review, “IQ in Time and Space,” of the results of a sister test to the famous international PISA test, the PIAAC. The OECD explains that the 2012 PIAAC:

The Programme for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (PIAAC) developed and conducts the Survey of Adult Skills. The survey measures adults’ proficiency in key information-processing skills – literacy, numeracy and problem solving in technology-rich environments – and gathers information and data on how adults use their skills at home, at work and in the wider community.

So, it’s not exactly an IQ test, but it’s also not exactly not an IQ test.

Unlike the PISA, which is given to 15 year olds, the PIAAC is given to 16 to 65 year olds.

The 2012 PIAAC was more restricted to first world countries than the PISA.

The highest score (107 on Anatoly’s Lynn-Vanhanen IQ-type scale where England is 100 and the standard deviation is 15) was in Japan, followed by Finland (105). Worst were Italy and Spain (95). That’s not a particularly huge difference compared to what’s seen on the PISA where much poorer non-OECD countries take the test.

But, keep in mind that there is only one year’s worth of data, so it’s not clear if the test was all that successful either scientifically or in the marketplace. It would be nice to have several rounds of this testing to smooth out one-year anomalies. So take these national scores with an even bigger grain of salt than for the PISA.

Among advanced countries, the biggest Flynn Effect is seen in South Korea, where 16-24 year olds (born 1988-1996) score almost a standard deviation higher (14.7 points) compared to 55-65 year olds (born 1947-1957: basically, Baby Boomers in US terms). About half of the oldest cohort would have been survivors of the Korean War of 1950-53, when things were very, very tough. Young South Koreans are also much taller than elderly South Koreans, so this seems plausible.

The second biggest Flynn Effect is observed in Spain, followed by France, Finland, Poland, and Netherlands, all of whom had difficulties in 1936-1945. Plus, Spain was really kind of backward until Franco decided to industrialize in the 1950s.

The smallest growth in whatever it is that the PIAAC is measuring are in England, Russia, US, and Norway. The US had the easiest 1939-45 of those four and was famously the most prosperous country in world history when the Baby Boomers were born. Anatoly suggests that Russian growth in IQ or whatever was held back by alcoholism, which he dates to the mid-1960s in Russia.

Men modestly outscore women in all countries except Russia. The biggest male privileges in intelligence are found in feminist countries like Germany and Norway, while the smaller male advantages are found in less feminist Romance and Slavic countries. But the differences are pretty small.

The countries where natives have the biggest IQ advantages over immigrants are humanitarian Nordic countries, such as Sweden 15.9 points and Finland (15.0). The native-immigrant gap in the U.S. is 8 points.

The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations, while the Russians are the worst at this, perhaps due to people getting their jobs because they know a guy who knows a guy.

 
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  1. Not a lot of blacks in Japan to pull down the scores.

    Also, that would have been a useful category that I didn’t see any sorting on.

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  2. D. K. says:

    Is there something technical preventing national IQs from being normed on a worldwide basis, rather than arbitrarily setting the United Kingdom at 100, when it is clearly above average?

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  3. Anon7 says:

    “The gap native-immigrant gap in the U.S. is 8 points.”

    And getting smaller every year, according to what I read here at Unz.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome
    Yes, as America becomes more brown the native-immigrant gap narrows. Children of yesterday's immigrants become tommorrow's natives.
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  4. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Not a lot of blacks in Japan to pull down the scores.

    That’s true, but it’s not just that. Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum. A minimum wage Japanese kid and or a returned-to-the-job-market mom can do the math instantly. I don’t get that in the U.S. when I travel there. Japanese, on average, seem to me to be noticeably smarter than white Americans. There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good. Civil servants are smart, construction site supervisors are smart. There are no fat, shaved-headed, tattooed, prison-pussy-bearded morons in positions of power such as the police and immigration in Japan. Most people are pretty smart.

    By the way, I loved this line from Karlin: “The three laggards here, the US, Russia, and the UK, are all famous for developing a sizable lumpenproletariat class during this period, respectively, white trailer trash, gopniks, and chavs.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill B.

    There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good.
     
    It noticed working in Hong Kong in the 1980s that many ordinary level shopkeepers and civil servants could be smart and quite sophisticated.

    But I also remember that in the UK growing up in the 1960s and 1970s - shopkeepers, pub managers, teachers, small business owners would often be wordly, intelligent and well read. But now we have had four or five decades of dysgenic population trends combined with a vulgerisation of the culture.

    The UK used to punch above its weight because of its culture promoted competence, honesty and hard work. Now...
    , @Pincher Martin
    I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and can report the same thing. There are plenty of morons on the small East Asian island, of course but they tend to be spread out, and so I ran into very few of them during a typical day. Most Taiwanese were hard working, smart in a practical way, and Taiwanese society ran smoothly as a result.

    Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum.
     
    I have the same habit. Yesterday, I gave some kid 94 cents (three quarters, a dime, a nickel, and four pennies) to cover a bill for $8.94. Boy, was that a mistake. The poor kid looked like a raccoon on a busy highway. He couldn't decide whether to count the coins in front of me, which he eventually did very slowly, or to just take my word on it.
    , @Jack D
    White trailer trash is not the problem in the US. On the SATs, the highest family income black decile scores lower than lowest decile whites. In IQ you have "regression to the mean" - if you are a below average IQ white person, your kids are likely to regress to the white mean, meaning that they will be smarter than you, whereas if you are an above average black, your kids are likely to regress to the black mean, meaning they will be dumber than you.
    , @piefacedprince
    There was a report of a Japanese researcher who measured IQs in different parts of Japan. The average in Northern Japan was 110 and the average in Southern Japan was 95, quite a large variation --if I remember correctly. Google might find the report. East Asians tend to do well on IQ tests,but I don't know if the tests are equally predictive for them, and that's what matters. If the Asian distributions have the same range and form as the European distributions, then the Asians would have many more extremely high IQs.
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  5. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations

    I commented about this on Karlin’s post, but there are differences in the way that the United States and Japan classify “difficult” positions.

    In Japan they take into account the level of service that is given, which means the ability to do a job efficiciently and politely. So jobs like police work, immigration officials, government clerks, postal employees, newspaper delivery and express delivery employees, and so on attract and are filled by smart people. In the U.S. you get maybe IQ 100 tops for these jobs, and the median is probably 90 or so.

    Are these jobs “difficult”? Maybe not in the traditional cognitive sense, but smarter people do them faster, more politely, and without mistakes, and the experience of dealing with such employees on the part of the public is much better. Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.

    Read More
    • Replies: @donut
    I was paid off a ship in San Diego back in 1989 . My schedule was 60 on 40 off ( with pay) so I always mailed my sea bag home rather than be bothered with carrying it to the airport . I got to the PO around lunch time and was about 5th in line . Behind the counter were two females and a male , all AA hires . One of the females was pregnant and literally would not lift anything heavier than a standard envelope . Otherwise she would wait for a colleague to lift even the smallest package . The other female announced she was taking a break and actually drank her coffee right there in front of a growing line of people there on their lunch hour . The male employee was the only one doing any work . As I said I was about no. 5 in line and still waited about 15 min. to get up to the counter . At one point I said "no wonder people shoot these places up." . I finally mailed my bag and flew home . The next day In the news I heard that someone had shot up a PO in San Diego . I always wonder if any of the people that heard me thought "OMG ! I was in line with that guy" ?
    , @AnonAnon

    Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.
     
    I can’t remember the last time I’ve waited in line at the post office. I rate the USPS’s website Click-N-Ship feature - where you purchase and print postage at home - up there with the microwave, iPod, and smartphones as far as best life-improving innovations go.
    , @anonymous
    This is a terrible way to maximize GDP, which is the most important aspect of any economy.
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  6. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Have there been any comprehensive studies on the IQs of ethnic/religious groups in the US in the last 15 years? There’s this isteve post from back in 2009 citing SATs and General Social Survey data as proxies, suggesting that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews. Has there been more subsequent corroberation of this finding?

    Given that the vaunted Jewish IQ is routinely cited as justification for why they should own most American media (and Washington think tanks and academia, etc) shouldn’t we be sure that they’re actually as brainy as claimed? (Not that I believe the argument is cogent)

    Recent SAT scores broken down by religion would be useful.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    To answer your question, not that I know of, but that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews raises an interesting point. People often wonder why lower class whites are being "betrayed" by our elites - either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors. The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not "their own" so betraying them is no betrayal to their group. The narcissism of small differences means that they will hate these people even more than they hate, say Mexicans.
    , @biz

    Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews
     
    At least for Unitarians and Quakers, that would be like saying systems analysts, or neurosurgeons, outscore Jews. These days Unitarianism and Quakerism are things that people choose because of their proclivities, not things they are born into, generally. There is a big selection effect there for upper middle class, middle-aged, SWPL professionals, who were raised in traditional mainline or evangelical Christianity but didn't like it. The same thing operates to some degree with Episcopalians, who get a lot of refugee Catholics and evangelicals because they disagreed with the positions on gays, abortion, evolution, etc.
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  7. eah says:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Bring back intramural sports. Limit practice time, and play games every day during the season. Even the disadvantaged can play games under this model.
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  8. utu says:

    So, it’s not exactly an IQ test, but it’s also not exactly not an IQ test.

    Correlation with countries’ IQ’s with the test results from Karlin’s list is only 0.24 meaning that only 6% of variance of test results can be explained by country IQ.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197150

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197201

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    But there isn't much variance within Europe, especially outside of the Balkans, so ...
    , @phil
    It's not particularly meaningful to put test scores on an IQ scale for ages 16-65 and then compare means across countries.

    The Lynn-Vanhanen dataset attempts to adjust for Flynn effects, but assumes that Flynn effects are uniform across countries when, in fact, South Korea probably had an unusually large Flynn effect. Other countries may also have deviated from the norm.

    All are agreed that the PIAAC results reflect positive Flynn effects within countries, effects that are inversely related to age, but the age-structures of the various countries are not the same, so computing means and comparing them across countries means what? That one country is smarter than another, or one country has more young people than another?

    The data have too many moving parts to make for meaningful comparisons.

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  9. @utu

    So, it’s not exactly an IQ test, but it’s also not exactly not an IQ test.
     
    Correlation with countries' IQ's with the test results from Karlin's list is only 0.24 meaning that only 6% of variance of test results can be explained by country IQ.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197150
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197201

    But there isn’t much variance within Europe, especially outside of the Balkans, so …

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    But there isn’t much variance within Europe, especially outside of the Balkans, so …
     
    Korea and Japan are on the list. W/o them the correlation would be even lower than 0.24. Bottom line is that Lynn's country IQ on European scale does not predict national PIAAC test scores. But obviously to make IQist happy one can employ some tricks of restricted range correction which I facetiously addressed here

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197201

    by appending the list with the Republic of Microcephalia and was able to boost the correlation to 0.96. The tricks of restricted range correction are responsible for claims of IQ high predictive power which probably in many cases are inflated because the correction methods (like the one by Thorndike) have free parameters that can be set to arbitrary value to make correlation as close to 1 as one wishes.
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  10. helena says:

    The only countries with literacy higher than numeracy are Australia and US.

    That suggests to me that the UK baseline represents a relationship between literacy and numeracy not shared by most other countries or, there is a disadvantage for non-English speaking countries doing the tests.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Tests are tricky to make really good for detecting subtle variations.

    Tests are pretty good for detecting big differences even if they aren't super-sophisticated, but slight variations are trouble.

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  11. @helena
    The only countries with literacy higher than numeracy are Australia and US.

    That suggests to me that the UK baseline represents a relationship between literacy and numeracy not shared by most other countries or, there is a disadvantage for non-English speaking countries doing the tests.

    Tests are tricky to make really good for detecting subtle variations.

    Tests are pretty good for detecting big differences even if they aren’t super-sophisticated, but slight variations are trouble.

    Read More
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  12. donut says:
    @Anonymous

    The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations
     
    I commented about this on Karlin's post, but there are differences in the way that the United States and Japan classify "difficult" positions.

    In Japan they take into account the level of service that is given, which means the ability to do a job efficiciently and politely. So jobs like police work, immigration officials, government clerks, postal employees, newspaper delivery and express delivery employees, and so on attract and are filled by smart people. In the U.S. you get maybe IQ 100 tops for these jobs, and the median is probably 90 or so.

    Are these jobs "difficult"? Maybe not in the traditional cognitive sense, but smarter people do them faster, more politely, and without mistakes, and the experience of dealing with such employees on the part of the public is much better. Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.

    I was paid off a ship in San Diego back in 1989 . My schedule was 60 on 40 off ( with pay) so I always mailed my sea bag home rather than be bothered with carrying it to the airport . I got to the PO around lunch time and was about 5th in line . Behind the counter were two females and a male , all AA hires . One of the females was pregnant and literally would not lift anything heavier than a standard envelope . Otherwise she would wait for a colleague to lift even the smallest package . The other female announced she was taking a break and actually drank her coffee right there in front of a growing line of people there on their lunch hour . The male employee was the only one doing any work . As I said I was about no. 5 in line and still waited about 15 min. to get up to the counter . At one point I said “no wonder people shoot these places up.” . I finally mailed my bag and flew home . The next day In the news I heard that someone had shot up a PO in San Diego . I always wonder if any of the people that heard me thought “OMG ! I was in line with that guy” ?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. “The biggest male privileges in intelligence are found in feminist countries like Germany and Norway ….”

    Experience on the ground suggests that even if true, there is a woeful inability to apply that IQ surplus to anything meaningful. It’s why the women are running the show to disastrous ends across Northern Europe.

    Read More
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  14. OT: A lack of funding is preventing Australia from making Aborigines equal with white Australians.

    http://www.dw.com/en/australia-failing-to-improve-lives-of-indigenous-people/a-42542824

    Read More
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  15. “So, it’s not exactly an IQ test, but it’s also not exactly not an IQ test.”

    Does it more strongly correlate with the measures that matter, as does IQ compared to other measures?

    Read More
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  16. The smallest growth in whatever it is that the PIAAC is measuring are in England, Russia, US, and Norway. The US had the easiest 1939-45 of those four and was famously the most prosperous country in world history when the Baby Boomers were born.

    Compare and contrast with Cochran’s latest:

    The hijab of ignorance
    Posted on February 12, 2018 by gcochran9
    If you didn’t know which position you’d be born into in society, you would choose, not egalitarianism, but a form of society that maximized the rate of technological progress. That would increases your chance of living in a world with penicillin, Mozart, and pizza – all far more important than social position. Since you don’t know when you’re going to be born, either.

    Better bullshit™ than Rawls.

    So people prefer dysgenic environments. That’s not a big surprise since people prefer heroin too.

    Of course, the all-important question is, “Compared to what?”

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/02/12/the-hijab-of-ignorance/

    Read More
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  17. Bill B. says:
    @Anonymous

    Not a lot of blacks in Japan to pull down the scores.
     
    That's true, but it's not just that. Most shops don't have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum. A minimum wage Japanese kid and or a returned-to-the-job-market mom can do the math instantly. I don't get that in the U.S. when I travel there. Japanese, on average, seem to me to be noticeably smarter than white Americans. There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good. Civil servants are smart, construction site supervisors are smart. There are no fat, shaved-headed, tattooed, prison-pussy-bearded morons in positions of power such as the police and immigration in Japan. Most people are pretty smart.

    By the way, I loved this line from Karlin: "The three laggards here, the US, Russia, and the UK, are all famous for developing a sizable lumpenproletariat class during this period, respectively, white trailer trash, gopniks, and chavs."

    There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good.

    It noticed working in Hong Kong in the 1980s that many ordinary level shopkeepers and civil servants could be smart and quite sophisticated.

    But I also remember that in the UK growing up in the 1960s and 1970s – shopkeepers, pub managers, teachers, small business owners would often be wordly, intelligent and well read. But now we have had four or five decades of dysgenic population trends combined with a vulgerisation of the culture.

    The UK used to punch above its weight because of its culture promoted competence, honesty and hard work. Now…

    Read More
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  18. Polynikes says:

    Having lived in Korea for a little while during the last decade, I can certainly believe that much of their advancement is due to nutrition and increased wealth. From the architecture to the people you can see the advancements in the last 50 years. For a while things were growing so rapidly they were building large, almost skyscraper type buildings on top of basically public housing shantytowns.

    Read More
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  19. a reader says:

    Sorry, OT,

    A white man is named next President of Harvard.

    Read More
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  20. a reader says:

    Lawrence S. Bacow

    His mother immigrated from Europe at age 19 to escape World War II and Nazi persecution.

    Wikipedia

    his father was a refugee and his mother a survivor of Auschwitz

    Washington Post

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Can't really trust Wikipedia:

    Lawrence Seldon Bacow was born on August 24, 1951 in Detroit, Michigan to two cannoli makers.

    Somehow I doubt this. The footnoted source says no such thing that I could see. Is it a joke edit?

    Bacow (Boston Globe) My parents came to this country with literally nothing,” Bacow, 66, said. “I wouldn’t be here if this country was not open to people like my parents at the time. I wouldn’t be here if my father hadn’t had the opportunity to get a college education.”

    A college educated cannoli maker?

    I'm not sure that is true, BTW. My father didn't go to college and I don't think that made any difference in where I am.
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  21. George says:

    “The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations, while the Russians are the worst at this, perhaps due to people getting their jobs because they know a guy who knows a guy.”

    This might be what’s behind the amazing success of the Russian military. For such a small modest income country to give NATO+The Free World(tm) a run for its money its military must be where smart capable people go to work. I assumed Russian got more bang for its buck because they needed to be frugal, but it might just be that their officer corps is more detailed oriented and understand physics rigorously so they are harder to fool.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Where, following WWII, did Russians achieve this amazing success? In Afghanistan they got the crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribesmen?

    Ultimately the size and effectiveness of your military is going to depend on the size of your economy. The Soviets made up for that in part by devoting a high % of their GDP to the military rather than to consumer spending or capital investment (and thru espionage and other shortcuts) but in the end they lost the Cold War because they couldn't keep up.

    Putin likes to make a show of restoring "Russian greatness" and Russian planes buzz American jets and go on mock bombing runs, etc. just to get on our nerves, but in a real confrontation they are no longer a superpower and they know it.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Unlikely. Even the top military academies have much lower Unified State Exam performance requirements than the top civilian universities (MGU, HSE, etc). My impression is that the gap is similar to that in the US, where West Point would only be around 100th in terms of SAT entrance requirements. Although officer wages are drastically better than they were a decade ago, military service is still not exactly prestigious in Russia, and much as in the US, it is the patriotically inclined, not the cognitive elite, who go there.

    Reasons Russia gets more bang for its buck:
    1) Lower wage costs, especially since it remains partially reliant on conscription;
    2) Domestic MIC, with very few weapons imports;
    3) Doesn't maintain a global network of hundreds of military bases.
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  22. a reader says:

    Ok, this is explained thusly:

    His mother was 19 when she reached the United States on the second Liberty ship carrying refugees from Europe after the war, and was the only member of her family to survive Auschwitz, he said. His father, born in Minsk, was brought to America as a child to escape pogroms.

    New York Times

    A certain pattern emerges, doesn’t it?

    By the way, Bacow said he also plans to continue to work to protect students at Harvard who were brought to the country as children and living here illegally.

    Read More
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  23. @Anonymous

    Not a lot of blacks in Japan to pull down the scores.
     
    That's true, but it's not just that. Most shops don't have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum. A minimum wage Japanese kid and or a returned-to-the-job-market mom can do the math instantly. I don't get that in the U.S. when I travel there. Japanese, on average, seem to me to be noticeably smarter than white Americans. There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good. Civil servants are smart, construction site supervisors are smart. There are no fat, shaved-headed, tattooed, prison-pussy-bearded morons in positions of power such as the police and immigration in Japan. Most people are pretty smart.

    By the way, I loved this line from Karlin: "The three laggards here, the US, Russia, and the UK, are all famous for developing a sizable lumpenproletariat class during this period, respectively, white trailer trash, gopniks, and chavs."

    I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and can report the same thing. There are plenty of morons on the small East Asian island, of course but they tend to be spread out, and so I ran into very few of them during a typical day. Most Taiwanese were hard working, smart in a practical way, and Taiwanese society ran smoothly as a result.

    Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum.

    I have the same habit. Yesterday, I gave some kid 94 cents (three quarters, a dime, a nickel, and four pennies) to cover a bill for $8.94. Boy, was that a mistake. The poor kid looked like a raccoon on a busy highway. He couldn’t decide whether to count the coins in front of me, which he eventually did very slowly, or to just take my word on it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    The absolute worst is if they make a mistake punching in the amount tendered so that they have to figure the change themselves and not just give you the change amount that the register says to give you. You can forget about them doing the math in their head. Sometimes they get out a slip of paper to try to do it with pen and pencil but that's not quick or easy either.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I learned to count change in elementary school ffs.

    I had a bill recently of $11.16. I gave the clerk $21.26 and he looked at me like I was insane.
    , @anonymous
    You are part of the problem. Why are you out there, and not helping the white race when it is needed? You're a Boomer nationalist, a traitor who plays at being an ethnonationalist.
    , @Autochthon
    When I worked in fast food I was always put on the drive-through register because it is the bottleneck and most requires speed and half a brain. I made change like clockwork, instantly (that's not a boast; it's of course very easy!).

    Cost: $2.94 | Tender: $10.00 | Change: $7.06

    Cost: $5.78 | Tender: $20.00 | Change: $14.22


    And so on. Hours and hours nonstop. Just left the register's till open and hit the default key indicating exact change had been tendered over and over. It's just understanding the decimal system. I could have done it when I was ten years old or younger. Anyone should be able to. People flew through that drive-through so long as the cooks were on their game.

    Yet everyone except the manager thought I was some kind of mathematical savant. One girl actually kept a calculator there, separate from the register, because she was nervous about typing amounts into the register directly the first go-round. It was sad. She was sweet. I wasn't annoyed with her. I tried to teach her. It was hopeless. My manager would give up and have me take over. This went on with everyone we tried to train. I cannot imagine what it was like when I wasn't working.

    Was it because most bright people are born to parents bright enough to have jobs that insulate their kids from having to work at Arby's? What's it like now that instead of middle-class and lower-class American (white) teens these jobs are filled by Guatamalan mestizoids? Do we even know, because now doesn't the register literally spit out the proper coins into a little dish in many places?

    I'd be genuinely interested to read ethnographic field-research or even a controlled experiment amongst undergraduate students of psychology to see how well or poorly the average person does at this basically task in our current dystopian, shit-hole society.

    Any thoughts from Neoconned?

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  24. AnonAnon says:
    @Anonymous

    The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations
     
    I commented about this on Karlin's post, but there are differences in the way that the United States and Japan classify "difficult" positions.

    In Japan they take into account the level of service that is given, which means the ability to do a job efficiciently and politely. So jobs like police work, immigration officials, government clerks, postal employees, newspaper delivery and express delivery employees, and so on attract and are filled by smart people. In the U.S. you get maybe IQ 100 tops for these jobs, and the median is probably 90 or so.

    Are these jobs "difficult"? Maybe not in the traditional cognitive sense, but smarter people do them faster, more politely, and without mistakes, and the experience of dealing with such employees on the part of the public is much better. Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.

    Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.

    I can’t remember the last time I’ve waited in line at the post office. I rate the USPS’s website Click-N-Ship feature – where you purchase and print postage at home – up there with the microwave, iPod, and smartphones as far as best life-improving innovations go.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I think if the package is over 1 lb. or something, you have wait in line and to give it to them at the counter anyway and can't just drop it in the slot. So people don't mail (large) bombs.
    , @sb
    US Border Control seems largely staffed by people who hate the human race in general but particularly hate foreign white people

    I figure that it is a job much coveted by non white misanthropes
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  25. @Anon7
    "The gap native-immigrant gap in the U.S. is 8 points."

    And getting smaller every year, according to what I read here at Unz.

    Yes, as America becomes more brown the native-immigrant gap narrows. Children of yesterday’s immigrants become tommorrow’s natives.

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  26. Jack D says:

    Try it this way:

    The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking (((smarter people))) into more difficult occupations, while the Russians are the worst at this, perhaps due to to their hatred of and discrimination against (((smarter people))). In the US, discrimination was mostly reserved for {{{dumber people}}}.

    http://www.tanyakhovanova.com/coffins.html

    US (post WWII): “Here’s this really bright kid named Feynman – how can we get him to come work for us?”

    USSR (post WWII): “Here’s this really bright kid named Feynman – how can we get him to not come work for us?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Sadly, the trend is now much the same in what used to be the U.S.A. as it was in Soviet Russia's past. The honchos all get discomfited at big words, things that are "too complicated," executives "don't have time to read all that!" And so on. The yes-men and suck-ups get promoted. The technocrats who know what the Hell they are doing languish with no opportunity to make meaningful contributions as the corporation's innovation lags and the shysters milk its husk for bonuses and golden parachutes. Occasionally a bright guy somehow able to wrangle the necessary capital starts a new one, but soon enough the cycle repeats itself. What innovations and gains are realised come from gobbling up start-ups and other smaller competitors with a buy-out.

    If you compare the longevity and meaningful productivity and progress of powerhouses from the twentieth century and their achievements in technology and efficiency to those around today, the trend is clear, and depressing.
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  27. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations
     
    I commented about this on Karlin's post, but there are differences in the way that the United States and Japan classify "difficult" positions.

    In Japan they take into account the level of service that is given, which means the ability to do a job efficiciently and politely. So jobs like police work, immigration officials, government clerks, postal employees, newspaper delivery and express delivery employees, and so on attract and are filled by smart people. In the U.S. you get maybe IQ 100 tops for these jobs, and the median is probably 90 or so.

    Are these jobs "difficult"? Maybe not in the traditional cognitive sense, but smarter people do them faster, more politely, and without mistakes, and the experience of dealing with such employees on the part of the public is much better. Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.

    This is a terrible way to maximize GDP, which is the most important aspect of any economy.

    Read More
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  28. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    Not a lot of blacks in Japan to pull down the scores.
     
    That's true, but it's not just that. Most shops don't have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum. A minimum wage Japanese kid and or a returned-to-the-job-market mom can do the math instantly. I don't get that in the U.S. when I travel there. Japanese, on average, seem to me to be noticeably smarter than white Americans. There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good. Civil servants are smart, construction site supervisors are smart. There are no fat, shaved-headed, tattooed, prison-pussy-bearded morons in positions of power such as the police and immigration in Japan. Most people are pretty smart.

    By the way, I loved this line from Karlin: "The three laggards here, the US, Russia, and the UK, are all famous for developing a sizable lumpenproletariat class during this period, respectively, white trailer trash, gopniks, and chavs."

    White trailer trash is not the problem in the US. On the SATs, the highest family income black decile scores lower than lowest decile whites. In IQ you have “regression to the mean” – if you are a below average IQ white person, your kids are likely to regress to the white mean, meaning that they will be smarter than you, whereas if you are an above average black, your kids are likely to regress to the black mean, meaning they will be dumber than you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    White trailer trash is not the problem in the US.
     
    As long as you haven't humored your wife by buying a place near the beach and have to look at their fats and tats everyday.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yeah, that stat has always been interesting to me. Something just doesn't quite fit. Yes, black kids are moving toward a lower mean so a bigger drop, but still, if you assume that we regress to the mean at 40% of your parents' IQ difference from the mean, kids of high-income blacks should still do better than low-income whites.

    The kids of black parents with a 115 IQ should have an IQ of ~103, while the white kids of parents with an 80 IQ should have an IQ of 88. The black kids' IQ fell faster but not enough to have them be equal with the poor white kids.

    A part of the explanation might be that blacks at certain income levels have lower IQs than whites at the same level due to affirmative action. I've met a decent number of fairly high income blacks (almost all working for the government or companies that do a lot of business with the government), and they are surprisingly dull witted. The speak reasonably well, but once you get into details, they fade quickly. Therefore, it may be higher income blacks don't have that high of an IQ to start out with, though certainly higher than the lowest income whites.

    As a result, whites in the top quintile of income likely have IQs above ~110 and probably average ~120, but blacks might be a good 10 points or more lower on each.

    Now, if you have black parents with 110 IQ, their kids would have an IQ of 10 right at the white average but still better than poor whites. (This explains the dismal performance of the few upper middle class black kids who attend mostly white, i.e. good, high schools.)

    Regardless, I'm still not sure how poor white kids with an IQ of ~90 are scoring the same as the ~100 IQ black kids of high income parents.

    Part of it might be that blacks - even 100 IQ blacks - lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.
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  29. Jack D says:
    @George
    "The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations, while the Russians are the worst at this, perhaps due to people getting their jobs because they know a guy who knows a guy."

    This might be what's behind the amazing success of the Russian military. For such a small modest income country to give NATO+The Free World(tm) a run for its money its military must be where smart capable people go to work. I assumed Russian got more bang for its buck because they needed to be frugal, but it might just be that their officer corps is more detailed oriented and understand physics rigorously so they are harder to fool.

    Where, following WWII, did Russians achieve this amazing success? In Afghanistan they got the crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribesmen?

    Ultimately the size and effectiveness of your military is going to depend on the size of your economy. The Soviets made up for that in part by devoting a high % of their GDP to the military rather than to consumer spending or capital investment (and thru espionage and other shortcuts) but in the end they lost the Cold War because they couldn’t keep up.

    Putin likes to make a show of restoring “Russian greatness” and Russian planes buzz American jets and go on mock bombing runs, etc. just to get on our nerves, but in a real confrontation they are no longer a superpower and they know it.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Excepting Alexander the Great, literally every single army that has invaded Afghanistan has gotten "crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribsemen."

    (Despite official maps and boundaries, the Mongols and Tamerlane actually mostly just went around the place or avoided it.)

    How's what used to be the U.S.A. doing there after, what, twenty years almost?

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  30. Jack D says:
    @Pincher Martin
    I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and can report the same thing. There are plenty of morons on the small East Asian island, of course but they tend to be spread out, and so I ran into very few of them during a typical day. Most Taiwanese were hard working, smart in a practical way, and Taiwanese society ran smoothly as a result.

    Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum.
     
    I have the same habit. Yesterday, I gave some kid 94 cents (three quarters, a dime, a nickel, and four pennies) to cover a bill for $8.94. Boy, was that a mistake. The poor kid looked like a raccoon on a busy highway. He couldn't decide whether to count the coins in front of me, which he eventually did very slowly, or to just take my word on it.

    The absolute worst is if they make a mistake punching in the amount tendered so that they have to figure the change themselves and not just give you the change amount that the register says to give you. You can forget about them doing the math in their head. Sometimes they get out a slip of paper to try to do it with pen and pencil but that’s not quick or easy either.

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  31. syonredux says:

    Interesting quote from Rawls on the topic of eugenics:

    In addition, it is possible to adopt eugenic policies, more or less explicit. I shall not consider questions of eugenics, confining myself throughout to the traditional concerns of social justice. We should note, though, that it is not in general to the advantage of the less fortunate to propose policies which reduce the talents of others. Instead, by accepting the difference principle, they view the greater abilities as a social asset to be used for the common advantage. But it is also in the interest of each to have greater natural assets. This enables him to pursue a preferred plan of life. In the original position, then, the parties want to insure for their descendants the best genetic endowment (assuming their own to be fixed). The pursuit of reasonable policies in this regard is something that earlier generations owe to later ones, this being a question that arises between generations. Thus over time a society is to take steps at least to preserve the general level of natural abilities and to prevent the diffusion of serious defects.

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  32. Russia is basically Nigeria with more snow as one of the Google founders put it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    I saw with my own eyes that in rural Ukraine people live at African subsistence levels (except that crops only grow for 1/3 the year. A lot of this is down to bad rulers but I didn't have the feeling that they had a lot of raw material to work with either.
    , @anon
    Yes, when I look at Saint Petersburg's skyline I think "Nigeria, but with more snow." /s

    Who said this? Sergey Brin? Maybe his feelings are colored by personal by ethnic animus.

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  33. Jack D says:
    @anon
    Have there been any comprehensive studies on the IQs of ethnic/religious groups in the US in the last 15 years? There's this isteve post from back in 2009 citing SATs and General Social Survey data as proxies, suggesting that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews. Has there been more subsequent corroberation of this finding?

    Given that the vaunted Jewish IQ is routinely cited as justification for why they should own most American media (and Washington think tanks and academia, etc) shouldn't we be sure that they're actually as brainy as claimed? (Not that I believe the argument is cogent)

    Recent SAT scores broken down by religion would be useful.

    To answer your question, not that I know of, but that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews raises an interesting point. People often wonder why lower class whites are being “betrayed” by our elites – either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors. The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not “their own” so betraying them is no betrayal to their group. The narcissism of small differences means that they will hate these people even more than they hate, say Mexicans.

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    • Replies: @Bill
    Indeed, SAT + BA + labor mobility has manufactured the "identifiable group of non-Jewish whites." They are the people living in McMansion Groves, or, as Paul Kersey used to memorably call them, Drifter Colonies.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country

    either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors
     
    Why can't it be both?

    Even if it is a combo, there's still a difference. The Unitarians are letting poor whites die by neglect. The "Joos" - or, at least, a very influential segment of "Joos" who get no pushback from rank-and-file "Joos" - have an agenda. Those are very different things. And you know that.
    , @dfordoom

    The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not “their own” so betraying them is no betrayal to their group
     
    Bingo. That's why "white nationalism" is a ludicrous idea.

    Could it possibly be that these privileged whites define themselves by class, not ethnicity? That would mean that class loyalty is much more significant than ethnic loyalty. But that would mean that class warfare is actually a thing.
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  34. Jack D says:
    @a reader
    Lawrence S. Bacow

    His mother immigrated from Europe at age 19 to escape World War II and Nazi persecution.
     
    Wikipedia




    his father was a refugee and his mother a survivor of Auschwitz

     
    Washington Post

    Can’t really trust Wikipedia:

    Lawrence Seldon Bacow was born on August 24, 1951 in Detroit, Michigan to two cannoli makers.

    Somehow I doubt this. The footnoted source says no such thing that I could see. Is it a joke edit?

    Bacow (Boston Globe) My parents came to this country with literally nothing,” Bacow, 66, said. “I wouldn’t be here if this country was not open to people like my parents at the time. I wouldn’t be here if my father hadn’t had the opportunity to get a college education.”

    A college educated cannoli maker?

    I’m not sure that is true, BTW. My father didn’t go to college and I don’t think that made any difference in where I am.

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  35. @George
    "The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking smarter people into more difficult occupations, while the Russians are the worst at this, perhaps due to people getting their jobs because they know a guy who knows a guy."

    This might be what's behind the amazing success of the Russian military. For such a small modest income country to give NATO+The Free World(tm) a run for its money its military must be where smart capable people go to work. I assumed Russian got more bang for its buck because they needed to be frugal, but it might just be that their officer corps is more detailed oriented and understand physics rigorously so they are harder to fool.

    Unlikely. Even the top military academies have much lower Unified State Exam performance requirements than the top civilian universities (MGU, HSE, etc). My impression is that the gap is similar to that in the US, where West Point would only be around 100th in terms of SAT entrance requirements. Although officer wages are drastically better than they were a decade ago, military service is still not exactly prestigious in Russia, and much as in the US, it is the patriotically inclined, not the cognitive elite, who go there.

    Reasons Russia gets more bang for its buck:
    1) Lower wage costs, especially since it remains partially reliant on conscription;
    2) Domestic MIC, with very few weapons imports;
    3) Doesn’t maintain a global network of hundreds of military bases.

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  36. Jack D says:
    @AnonAnon

    Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.
     
    I can’t remember the last time I’ve waited in line at the post office. I rate the USPS’s website Click-N-Ship feature - where you purchase and print postage at home - up there with the microwave, iPod, and smartphones as far as best life-improving innovations go.

    I think if the package is over 1 lb. or something, you have wait in line and to give it to them at the counter anyway and can’t just drop it in the slot. So people don’t mail (large) bombs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    That's only if you use postage stamps. If you use electronic postage printed you are good to go
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  37. Jack D says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    Russia is basically Nigeria with more snow as one of the Google founders put it.

    I saw with my own eyes that in rural Ukraine people live at African subsistence levels (except that crops only grow for 1/3 the year. A lot of this is down to bad rulers but I didn’t have the feeling that they had a lot of raw material to work with either.

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  38. @Pincher Martin
    I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and can report the same thing. There are plenty of morons on the small East Asian island, of course but they tend to be spread out, and so I ran into very few of them during a typical day. Most Taiwanese were hard working, smart in a practical way, and Taiwanese society ran smoothly as a result.

    Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum.
     
    I have the same habit. Yesterday, I gave some kid 94 cents (three quarters, a dime, a nickel, and four pennies) to cover a bill for $8.94. Boy, was that a mistake. The poor kid looked like a raccoon on a busy highway. He couldn't decide whether to count the coins in front of me, which he eventually did very slowly, or to just take my word on it.

    I learned to count change in elementary school ffs.

    I had a bill recently of $11.16. I gave the clerk $21.26 and he looked at me like I was insane.

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  39. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    Russia is basically Nigeria with more snow as one of the Google founders put it.

    Yes, when I look at Saint Petersburg’s skyline I think “Nigeria, but with more snow.” /s

    Who said this? Sergey Brin? Maybe his feelings are colored by personal by ethnic animus.

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    Right, because Lagos is just a bunch of grass huts....

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/8066451729_7503ca9c99_b.jpg

    Actually in terms of modern skyscrapers, I think Lagos has Petersburg beat but of course Leningrad has more nice stuff left over from the Czarist era.

    I think that what Russia and Nigeria have in common (and the US doesn't) is that while their urban centers are quite sophisticated and modern, once you go out into the countryside things really go downhill fast. A rich and sophisticated Moscovite lives a life not too different than a Parisian or a New Yorker but there is no rural American, even in the poorest W. Virginia hamlet, that lives the same kind of poverty as the people out in the Russian countryside, if only because the people in W. Virginia get all kinds of government welfare support.

    What's also different in Russia is that poverty has no racial element.
    , @Autochthon
    Ha! Brin is of course a genuine (((Russian))) himself, so he is to be trusted in this matter and his judgments are impartial and beyond reproach.
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  40. @Jack D
    White trailer trash is not the problem in the US. On the SATs, the highest family income black decile scores lower than lowest decile whites. In IQ you have "regression to the mean" - if you are a below average IQ white person, your kids are likely to regress to the white mean, meaning that they will be smarter than you, whereas if you are an above average black, your kids are likely to regress to the black mean, meaning they will be dumber than you.

    White trailer trash is not the problem in the US.

    As long as you haven’t humored your wife by buying a place near the beach and have to look at their fats and tats everyday.

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    • LOL: BB753
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  41. biz says:
    @anon
    Have there been any comprehensive studies on the IQs of ethnic/religious groups in the US in the last 15 years? There's this isteve post from back in 2009 citing SATs and General Social Survey data as proxies, suggesting that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews. Has there been more subsequent corroberation of this finding?

    Given that the vaunted Jewish IQ is routinely cited as justification for why they should own most American media (and Washington think tanks and academia, etc) shouldn't we be sure that they're actually as brainy as claimed? (Not that I believe the argument is cogent)

    Recent SAT scores broken down by religion would be useful.

    Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews

    At least for Unitarians and Quakers, that would be like saying systems analysts, or neurosurgeons, outscore Jews. These days Unitarianism and Quakerism are things that people choose because of their proclivities, not things they are born into, generally. There is a big selection effect there for upper middle class, middle-aged, SWPL professionals, who were raised in traditional mainline or evangelical Christianity but didn’t like it. The same thing operates to some degree with Episcopalians, who get a lot of refugee Catholics and evangelicals because they disagreed with the positions on gays, abortion, evolution, etc.

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    • Replies: @CJ
    You’ve got a point, but I’m pretty sure Episcopalians were outscoring Jews on the SAT in the 1970s. I belive it’s mentioned in The Bell Curve.
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  42. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Pincher Martin
    I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and can report the same thing. There are plenty of morons on the small East Asian island, of course but they tend to be spread out, and so I ran into very few of them during a typical day. Most Taiwanese were hard working, smart in a practical way, and Taiwanese society ran smoothly as a result.

    Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum.
     
    I have the same habit. Yesterday, I gave some kid 94 cents (three quarters, a dime, a nickel, and four pennies) to cover a bill for $8.94. Boy, was that a mistake. The poor kid looked like a raccoon on a busy highway. He couldn't decide whether to count the coins in front of me, which he eventually did very slowly, or to just take my word on it.

    You are part of the problem. Why are you out there, and not helping the white race when it is needed? You’re a Boomer nationalist, a traitor who plays at being an ethnonationalist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin

    You are part of the problem. Why are you out there, and not helping the white race when it is needed?
     
    I'm not out there any longer, you illiterate cretin. Not that it matters. I don't play at being an ethnonationalist.
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  43. Jack D says:
    @anon
    Yes, when I look at Saint Petersburg's skyline I think "Nigeria, but with more snow." /s

    Who said this? Sergey Brin? Maybe his feelings are colored by personal by ethnic animus.

    Right, because Lagos is just a bunch of grass huts….

    Actually in terms of modern skyscrapers, I think Lagos has Petersburg beat but of course Leningrad has more nice stuff left over from the Czarist era.

    I think that what Russia and Nigeria have in common (and the US doesn’t) is that while their urban centers are quite sophisticated and modern, once you go out into the countryside things really go downhill fast. A rich and sophisticated Moscovite lives a life not too different than a Parisian or a New Yorker but there is no rural American, even in the poorest W. Virginia hamlet, that lives the same kind of poverty as the people out in the Russian countryside, if only because the people in W. Virginia get all kinds of government welfare support.

    What’s also different in Russia is that poverty has no racial element.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    The HDI of Nigeria is "Low." The HDI of Russia is "Very High." Russia is not "Nigeria, but with more snow."
    , @BB753
    Things go downhill faster in Nigeria than in Russia, and not only in the countryside. Are you serious?
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  44. utu says:
    @Steve Sailer
    But there isn't much variance within Europe, especially outside of the Balkans, so ...

    But there isn’t much variance within Europe, especially outside of the Balkans, so …

    Korea and Japan are on the list. W/o them the correlation would be even lower than 0.24. Bottom line is that Lynn’s country IQ on European scale does not predict national PIAAC test scores. But obviously to make IQist happy one can employ some tricks of restricted range correction which I facetiously addressed here

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197201

    by appending the list with the Republic of Microcephalia and was able to boost the correlation to 0.96. The tricks of restricted range correction are responsible for claims of IQ high predictive power which probably in many cases are inflated because the correction methods (like the one by Thorndike) have free parameters that can be set to arbitrary value to make correlation as close to 1 as one wishes.

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  45. @Jack D
    White trailer trash is not the problem in the US. On the SATs, the highest family income black decile scores lower than lowest decile whites. In IQ you have "regression to the mean" - if you are a below average IQ white person, your kids are likely to regress to the white mean, meaning that they will be smarter than you, whereas if you are an above average black, your kids are likely to regress to the black mean, meaning they will be dumber than you.

    Yeah, that stat has always been interesting to me. Something just doesn’t quite fit. Yes, black kids are moving toward a lower mean so a bigger drop, but still, if you assume that we regress to the mean at 40% of your parents’ IQ difference from the mean, kids of high-income blacks should still do better than low-income whites.

    The kids of black parents with a 115 IQ should have an IQ of ~103, while the white kids of parents with an 80 IQ should have an IQ of 88. The black kids’ IQ fell faster but not enough to have them be equal with the poor white kids.

    A part of the explanation might be that blacks at certain income levels have lower IQs than whites at the same level due to affirmative action. I’ve met a decent number of fairly high income blacks (almost all working for the government or companies that do a lot of business with the government), and they are surprisingly dull witted. The speak reasonably well, but once you get into details, they fade quickly. Therefore, it may be higher income blacks don’t have that high of an IQ to start out with, though certainly higher than the lowest income whites.

    As a result, whites in the top quintile of income likely have IQs above ~110 and probably average ~120, but blacks might be a good 10 points or more lower on each.

    Now, if you have black parents with 110 IQ, their kids would have an IQ of 10 right at the white average but still better than poor whites. (This explains the dismal performance of the few upper middle class black kids who attend mostly white, i.e. good, high schools.)

    Regardless, I’m still not sure how poor white kids with an IQ of ~90 are scoring the same as the ~100 IQ black kids of high income parents.

    Part of it might be that blacks – even 100 IQ blacks – lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    Part of it might be that blacks – even 100 IQ blacks – lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.
     
    Well said. Poor testing can also be caused by not paying attention to the time allowed, not skipping the questions you don't know, etc. There's a whole bunch of test taking strategies that work well but that may be too white for the brothas to embrace. Assuming, of course, that they knew about them in the first place.
    , @MSP
    I think part of it is that only the smartest poor white kids take college entrance exams, whereas probably all of the kids of upper class blacks are expected to take the SAT and go to college.
    , @Krastos the Gluemaker
    Assortative mating for intelligence is not nearly that strong. Class is a poor proxy, so even if one parent is genetically far away from the median on intelligence it's not a guarantee the other is.

    Worth longer discussion elsewhere sometime, but assortative mating for intelligence within racial groups might even have been going down in prevalence in recent decades compared to earlier in the 20th century. (Overall assortative mating has, but that's trivial. Useful to gram stain people who are constantly wrong about things. Also trends at the tiny population tails are more irrelevant than weird dysgenics obsessers and others think)
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  46. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    Right, because Lagos is just a bunch of grass huts....

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/8066451729_7503ca9c99_b.jpg

    Actually in terms of modern skyscrapers, I think Lagos has Petersburg beat but of course Leningrad has more nice stuff left over from the Czarist era.

    I think that what Russia and Nigeria have in common (and the US doesn't) is that while their urban centers are quite sophisticated and modern, once you go out into the countryside things really go downhill fast. A rich and sophisticated Moscovite lives a life not too different than a Parisian or a New Yorker but there is no rural American, even in the poorest W. Virginia hamlet, that lives the same kind of poverty as the people out in the Russian countryside, if only because the people in W. Virginia get all kinds of government welfare support.

    What's also different in Russia is that poverty has no racial element.

    The HDI of Nigeria is “Low.” The HDI of Russia is “Very High.” Russia is not “Nigeria, but with more snow.”

    Read More
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  47. BB753 says:
    @Jack D
    Right, because Lagos is just a bunch of grass huts....

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/8066451729_7503ca9c99_b.jpg

    Actually in terms of modern skyscrapers, I think Lagos has Petersburg beat but of course Leningrad has more nice stuff left over from the Czarist era.

    I think that what Russia and Nigeria have in common (and the US doesn't) is that while their urban centers are quite sophisticated and modern, once you go out into the countryside things really go downhill fast. A rich and sophisticated Moscovite lives a life not too different than a Parisian or a New Yorker but there is no rural American, even in the poorest W. Virginia hamlet, that lives the same kind of poverty as the people out in the Russian countryside, if only because the people in W. Virginia get all kinds of government welfare support.

    What's also different in Russia is that poverty has no racial element.

    Things go downhill faster in Nigeria than in Russia, and not only in the countryside. Are you serious?

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  48. Bill says:
    @Jack D
    To answer your question, not that I know of, but that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews raises an interesting point. People often wonder why lower class whites are being "betrayed" by our elites - either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors. The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not "their own" so betraying them is no betrayal to their group. The narcissism of small differences means that they will hate these people even more than they hate, say Mexicans.

    Indeed, SAT + BA + labor mobility has manufactured the “identifiable group of non-Jewish whites.” They are the people living in McMansion Groves, or, as Paul Kersey used to memorably call them, Drifter Colonies.

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  49. @Jack D
    To answer your question, not that I know of, but that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews raises an interesting point. People often wonder why lower class whites are being "betrayed" by our elites - either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors. The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not "their own" so betraying them is no betrayal to their group. The narcissism of small differences means that they will hate these people even more than they hate, say Mexicans.

    either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors

    Why can’t it be both?

    Even if it is a combo, there’s still a difference. The Unitarians are letting poor whites die by neglect. The “Joos” – or, at least, a very influential segment of “Joos” who get no pushback from rank-and-file “Joos” – have an agenda. Those are very different things. And you know that.

    Read More
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  50. @Jack D
    I think if the package is over 1 lb. or something, you have wait in line and to give it to them at the counter anyway and can't just drop it in the slot. So people don't mail (large) bombs.

    That’s only if you use postage stamps. If you use electronic postage printed you are good to go

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    • Replies: @Jack D
    At my local post office at least, they have closed off the flap door where you used to be able to drop packages and now there is only a narrow slot for mailing letters and small packages.
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  51. @Anonymous

    Not a lot of blacks in Japan to pull down the scores.
     
    That's true, but it's not just that. Most shops don't have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum. A minimum wage Japanese kid and or a returned-to-the-job-market mom can do the math instantly. I don't get that in the U.S. when I travel there. Japanese, on average, seem to me to be noticeably smarter than white Americans. There may be less variance and fewer geniuses, I dunno, but the human capital that keeps most things running smoothly is very good. Civil servants are smart, construction site supervisors are smart. There are no fat, shaved-headed, tattooed, prison-pussy-bearded morons in positions of power such as the police and immigration in Japan. Most people are pretty smart.

    By the way, I loved this line from Karlin: "The three laggards here, the US, Russia, and the UK, are all famous for developing a sizable lumpenproletariat class during this period, respectively, white trailer trash, gopniks, and chavs."

    There was a report of a Japanese researcher who measured IQs in different parts of Japan. The average in Northern Japan was 110 and the average in Southern Japan was 95, quite a large variation –if I remember correctly. Google might find the report. East Asians tend to do well on IQ tests,but I don’t know if the tests are equally predictive for them, and that’s what matters. If the Asian distributions have the same range and form as the European distributions, then the Asians would have many more extremely high IQs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Actually, according to the paper you refer to, nearly the entire north-south spread across Japan falls within a 2.5-3 IQ point difference (roughly 103-106, with Okinawa at 97 being an outlier). The north-south "IQ" correlation is very weak, and it certainly doesn't explain why some prefectures from southern Kyushu scored well, while many northern prefectures scored low. The study also makes the assumption that the standard deviation is 15. If Japan's standard deviation happened to be smaller, then the "IQ" differences would be smaller as well.

    I say "IQ" because the test used in the paper is neither an IQ test, nor a serious academic test. It is a run-of-the-mill, knowledge-based achievement test. Also, according to the Japan Times, the 'gap' has narrowed since then:

    But the ministry said the gap between the national average and the scores of the prefectures ranked at the bottom have narrowed in recent years, thanks to efforts to make improvements in the low-ranking prefectures.
     
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/08/28/reference/japans-annual-student-achievement-test-worth-cost/

    The Kenya Kura paper is essentially garbage, with too many problems to list here. Just a coincidence I'm sure, but Kura happens to be a big fan of guys like Cochran, Harpending, and Lynn.
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  52. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yeah, that stat has always been interesting to me. Something just doesn't quite fit. Yes, black kids are moving toward a lower mean so a bigger drop, but still, if you assume that we regress to the mean at 40% of your parents' IQ difference from the mean, kids of high-income blacks should still do better than low-income whites.

    The kids of black parents with a 115 IQ should have an IQ of ~103, while the white kids of parents with an 80 IQ should have an IQ of 88. The black kids' IQ fell faster but not enough to have them be equal with the poor white kids.

    A part of the explanation might be that blacks at certain income levels have lower IQs than whites at the same level due to affirmative action. I've met a decent number of fairly high income blacks (almost all working for the government or companies that do a lot of business with the government), and they are surprisingly dull witted. The speak reasonably well, but once you get into details, they fade quickly. Therefore, it may be higher income blacks don't have that high of an IQ to start out with, though certainly higher than the lowest income whites.

    As a result, whites in the top quintile of income likely have IQs above ~110 and probably average ~120, but blacks might be a good 10 points or more lower on each.

    Now, if you have black parents with 110 IQ, their kids would have an IQ of 10 right at the white average but still better than poor whites. (This explains the dismal performance of the few upper middle class black kids who attend mostly white, i.e. good, high schools.)

    Regardless, I'm still not sure how poor white kids with an IQ of ~90 are scoring the same as the ~100 IQ black kids of high income parents.

    Part of it might be that blacks - even 100 IQ blacks - lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.

    Part of it might be that blacks – even 100 IQ blacks – lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.

    Well said. Poor testing can also be caused by not paying attention to the time allowed, not skipping the questions you don’t know, etc. There’s a whole bunch of test taking strategies that work well but that may be too white for the brothas to embrace. Assuming, of course, that they knew about them in the first place.

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  53. phil says:
    @utu

    So, it’s not exactly an IQ test, but it’s also not exactly not an IQ test.
     
    Correlation with countries' IQ's with the test results from Karlin's list is only 0.24 meaning that only 6% of variance of test results can be explained by country IQ.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197150
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iq-in-time-and-space/#comment-2197201

    It’s not particularly meaningful to put test scores on an IQ scale for ages 16-65 and then compare means across countries.

    The Lynn-Vanhanen dataset attempts to adjust for Flynn effects, but assumes that Flynn effects are uniform across countries when, in fact, South Korea probably had an unusually large Flynn effect. Other countries may also have deviated from the norm.

    All are agreed that the PIAAC results reflect positive Flynn effects within countries, effects that are inversely related to age, but the age-structures of the various countries are not the same, so computing means and comparing them across countries means what? That one country is smarter than another, or one country has more young people than another?

    The data have too many moving parts to make for meaningful comparisons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    The data have too many moving parts to make for meaningful comparisons.
     
    Or perhaps the IQ construct has too many moving parts to be taken seriously. The Flynn effect demonstrate that the IQ construct stands on feet of clay or rather rubber as it can stretch and shrink.
    , @phil
    You are too tempted to be cynical and throw out everything. With some effort, raw IQ scores can often be properly adjusted for Flynn effects.
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  54. @Pincher Martin
    I lived in Taiwan for over a decade and can report the same thing. There are plenty of morons on the small East Asian island, of course but they tend to be spread out, and so I ran into very few of them during a typical day. Most Taiwanese were hard working, smart in a practical way, and Taiwanese society ran smoothly as a result.

    Most shops don’t have cash registers that do the math for you, and I have the habit of paying for things in a way that reduces my coins to a minimum.
     
    I have the same habit. Yesterday, I gave some kid 94 cents (three quarters, a dime, a nickel, and four pennies) to cover a bill for $8.94. Boy, was that a mistake. The poor kid looked like a raccoon on a busy highway. He couldn't decide whether to count the coins in front of me, which he eventually did very slowly, or to just take my word on it.

    When I worked in fast food I was always put on the drive-through register because it is the bottleneck and most requires speed and half a brain. I made change like clockwork, instantly (that’s not a boast; it’s of course very easy!).

    Cost: $2.94 | Tender: $10.00 | Change: $7.06

    Cost: $5.78 | Tender: $20.00 | Change: $14.22

    And so on. Hours and hours nonstop. Just left the register’s till open and hit the default key indicating exact change had been tendered over and over. It’s just understanding the decimal system. I could have done it when I was ten years old or younger. Anyone should be able to. People flew through that drive-through so long as the cooks were on their game.

    Yet everyone except the manager thought I was some kind of mathematical savant. One girl actually kept a calculator there, separate from the register, because she was nervous about typing amounts into the register directly the first go-round. It was sad. She was sweet. I wasn’t annoyed with her. I tried to teach her. It was hopeless. My manager would give up and have me take over. This went on with everyone we tried to train. I cannot imagine what it was like when I wasn’t working.

    Was it because most bright people are born to parents bright enough to have jobs that insulate their kids from having to work at Arby’s? What’s it like now that instead of middle-class and lower-class American (white) teens these jobs are filled by Guatamalan mestizoids? Do we even know, because now doesn’t the register literally spit out the proper coins into a little dish in many places?

    I’d be genuinely interested to read ethnographic field-research or even a controlled experiment amongst undergraduate students of psychology to see how well or poorly the average person does at this basically task in our current dystopian, shit-hole society.

    Any thoughts from Neoconned?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pincher Martin

    Was it because most bright people are born to parents bright enough to have jobs that insulate their kids from having to work at Arby’s? What’s it like now that instead of middle-class and lower-class American (white) teens these jobs are filled by Guatamalan mestizoids? Do we even know, because now doesn’t the register literally spit out the proper coins into a little dish in many places?
     
    I wonder that myself. But I doubt it's the first environmental explanation. I've never worked behind a cash register, and I know how to quickly work out the correct change. I'm now in the habit of preemptively explaining my actions to clerks so they don't get too flustered by me handing them something other than a single bill or the exact change. Occasionally, some of what I guess must be the smarter clerks will look a little annoyed because - like you in your fast food days - they don't need my explanation. But they are a small percentage of the clerks I bump into.

    To be fair, some of the dumbest clerks I meet aren't minorities. They are older white trash who look as if they've just gone on the wagon after a lifetime of meth.
    , @3g4me
    @54 Autochthon: "Yet everyone except the manager thought I was some kind of mathematical savant. One girl actually kept a calculator there, separate from the register, because she was nervous about typing amounts into the register directly the first go-round. It was sad. She was sweet. I wasn’t annoyed with her. I tried to teach her. It was hopeless. "

    I tried explaining, as a customer to a young non-White cashieress, that to get 10% of a price (for a manager's authorized discount on something) you merely had to move the decimal point. She was as dubious as a White would be when told to burn a chicken bone and feathers for a religious ceremony. Literally no idea what I was talking about. The sad thing is that applies to most White kids today, too, unless they were home schooled or private schooled. One of my husband's friends briefly employed our older son, along with his own, and repeatedly wondered why ours knew how to read and write in proper cursive and could do math in his head. Ours went to Christian schools; his went to college.
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  55. Jack D says:
    @kaganovitch
    That's only if you use postage stamps. If you use electronic postage printed you are good to go

    At my local post office at least, they have closed off the flap door where you used to be able to drop packages and now there is only a narrow slot for mailing letters and small packages.

    Read More
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  56. @Jack D
    Try it this way:

    The U.S. appears to be pretty good at tracking (((smarter people))) into more difficult occupations, while the Russians are the worst at this, perhaps due to to their hatred of and discrimination against (((smarter people))). In the US, discrimination was mostly reserved for {{{dumber people}}}.


    http://www.tanyakhovanova.com/coffins.html

    US (post WWII): "Here's this really bright kid named Feynman - how can we get him to come work for us?"

    USSR (post WWII): "Here's this really bright kid named Feynman - how can we get him to not come work for us?"

    Sadly, the trend is now much the same in what used to be the U.S.A. as it was in Soviet Russia’s past. The honchos all get discomfited at big words, things that are “too complicated,” executives “don’t have time to read all that!” And so on. The yes-men and suck-ups get promoted. The technocrats who know what the Hell they are doing languish with no opportunity to make meaningful contributions as the corporation’s innovation lags and the shysters milk its husk for bonuses and golden parachutes. Occasionally a bright guy somehow able to wrangle the necessary capital starts a new one, but soon enough the cycle repeats itself. What innovations and gains are realised come from gobbling up start-ups and other smaller competitors with a buy-out.

    If you compare the longevity and meaningful productivity and progress of powerhouses from the twentieth century and their achievements in technology and efficiency to those around today, the trend is clear, and depressing.

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  57. MSP says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yeah, that stat has always been interesting to me. Something just doesn't quite fit. Yes, black kids are moving toward a lower mean so a bigger drop, but still, if you assume that we regress to the mean at 40% of your parents' IQ difference from the mean, kids of high-income blacks should still do better than low-income whites.

    The kids of black parents with a 115 IQ should have an IQ of ~103, while the white kids of parents with an 80 IQ should have an IQ of 88. The black kids' IQ fell faster but not enough to have them be equal with the poor white kids.

    A part of the explanation might be that blacks at certain income levels have lower IQs than whites at the same level due to affirmative action. I've met a decent number of fairly high income blacks (almost all working for the government or companies that do a lot of business with the government), and they are surprisingly dull witted. The speak reasonably well, but once you get into details, they fade quickly. Therefore, it may be higher income blacks don't have that high of an IQ to start out with, though certainly higher than the lowest income whites.

    As a result, whites in the top quintile of income likely have IQs above ~110 and probably average ~120, but blacks might be a good 10 points or more lower on each.

    Now, if you have black parents with 110 IQ, their kids would have an IQ of 10 right at the white average but still better than poor whites. (This explains the dismal performance of the few upper middle class black kids who attend mostly white, i.e. good, high schools.)

    Regardless, I'm still not sure how poor white kids with an IQ of ~90 are scoring the same as the ~100 IQ black kids of high income parents.

    Part of it might be that blacks - even 100 IQ blacks - lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.

    I think part of it is that only the smartest poor white kids take college entrance exams, whereas probably all of the kids of upper class blacks are expected to take the SAT and go to college.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yeah, forgot to mention that. I'd suspect that this impacts the numbers a fair amount.
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  58. @Jack D
    Where, following WWII, did Russians achieve this amazing success? In Afghanistan they got the crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribesmen?

    Ultimately the size and effectiveness of your military is going to depend on the size of your economy. The Soviets made up for that in part by devoting a high % of their GDP to the military rather than to consumer spending or capital investment (and thru espionage and other shortcuts) but in the end they lost the Cold War because they couldn't keep up.

    Putin likes to make a show of restoring "Russian greatness" and Russian planes buzz American jets and go on mock bombing runs, etc. just to get on our nerves, but in a real confrontation they are no longer a superpower and they know it.

    Excepting Alexander the Great, literally every single army that has invaded Afghanistan has gotten “crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribsemen.”

    (Despite official maps and boundaries, the Mongols and Tamerlane actually mostly just went around the place or avoided it.)

    How’s what used to be the U.S.A. doing there after, what, twenty years almost?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    After beating their collective heads against that particular wall for 10 years, at least the Russians were smart enough to get the Hell out!
    , @Dr van nostrand
    That video is lol.

    Anyway the notion that Afghanistan was never conquered is pure bullshit. For most of it's history Afghanistan was under foreign control.
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  59. @anon
    Yes, when I look at Saint Petersburg's skyline I think "Nigeria, but with more snow." /s

    Who said this? Sergey Brin? Maybe his feelings are colored by personal by ethnic animus.

    Ha! Brin is of course a genuine (((Russian))) himself, so he is to be trusted in this matter and his judgments are impartial and beyond reproach.

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  60. @eah
    https://ww2.kqed.org/mindshift/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2015/03/Putnam-OurKids-Fig4.3.png

    Bring back intramural sports. Limit practice time, and play games every day during the season. Even the disadvantaged can play games under this model.

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    • Replies: @eah
    Compared to earlier, I think today lower SES students are far more likely to be non-white -- anyone who observes groups of students sees they largely self-segregate along racial/ethnic lines -- Putnam's findings are relevant here.
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  61. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jack D
    To answer your question, not that I know of, but that Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews raises an interesting point. People often wonder why lower class whites are being "betrayed" by our elites - either the evil Joos are doing it to them or upper class whites are race traitors. The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not "their own" so betraying them is no betrayal to their group. The narcissism of small differences means that they will hate these people even more than they hate, say Mexicans.

    The answer may be that whites are not really a homogenous group. If there is an identifiable group of non-Jewish whites with a mean IQ of say 115 and yet the white mean as a whole is 100, then there must be another group of non-Jewish whites with below average IQs. The 115 IQ Unitarians may see those below average whites as not “their own” so betraying them is no betrayal to their group

    Bingo. That’s why “white nationalism” is a ludicrous idea.

    Could it possibly be that these privileged whites define themselves by class, not ethnicity? That would mean that class loyalty is much more significant than ethnic loyalty. But that would mean that class warfare is actually a thing.

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  62. eah says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson II
    Bring back intramural sports. Limit practice time, and play games every day during the season. Even the disadvantaged can play games under this model.

    Compared to earlier, I think today lower SES students are far more likely to be non-white — anyone who observes groups of students sees they largely self-segregate along racial/ethnic lines — Putnam’s findings are relevant here.

    Read More
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  63. utu says:
    @phil
    It's not particularly meaningful to put test scores on an IQ scale for ages 16-65 and then compare means across countries.

    The Lynn-Vanhanen dataset attempts to adjust for Flynn effects, but assumes that Flynn effects are uniform across countries when, in fact, South Korea probably had an unusually large Flynn effect. Other countries may also have deviated from the norm.

    All are agreed that the PIAAC results reflect positive Flynn effects within countries, effects that are inversely related to age, but the age-structures of the various countries are not the same, so computing means and comparing them across countries means what? That one country is smarter than another, or one country has more young people than another?

    The data have too many moving parts to make for meaningful comparisons.

    The data have too many moving parts to make for meaningful comparisons.

    Or perhaps the IQ construct has too many moving parts to be taken seriously. The Flynn effect demonstrate that the IQ construct stands on feet of clay or rather rubber as it can stretch and shrink.

    Read More
    • Agree: dfordoom
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  64. CJ says:
    @biz

    Episcopalians, Unitarians and Quakers equal or outscore Jews
     
    At least for Unitarians and Quakers, that would be like saying systems analysts, or neurosurgeons, outscore Jews. These days Unitarianism and Quakerism are things that people choose because of their proclivities, not things they are born into, generally. There is a big selection effect there for upper middle class, middle-aged, SWPL professionals, who were raised in traditional mainline or evangelical Christianity but didn't like it. The same thing operates to some degree with Episcopalians, who get a lot of refugee Catholics and evangelicals because they disagreed with the positions on gays, abortion, evolution, etc.

    You’ve got a point, but I’m pretty sure Episcopalians were outscoring Jews on the SAT in the 1970s. I belive it’s mentioned in The Bell Curve.

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  65. sb says:
    @AnonAnon

    Life is much more pleasant when the person at the post office window is not an affirmative action hostile moron.
     
    I can’t remember the last time I’ve waited in line at the post office. I rate the USPS’s website Click-N-Ship feature - where you purchase and print postage at home - up there with the microwave, iPod, and smartphones as far as best life-improving innovations go.

    US Border Control seems largely staffed by people who hate the human race in general but particularly hate foreign white people

    I figure that it is a job much coveted by non white misanthropes

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  66. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yeah, that stat has always been interesting to me. Something just doesn't quite fit. Yes, black kids are moving toward a lower mean so a bigger drop, but still, if you assume that we regress to the mean at 40% of your parents' IQ difference from the mean, kids of high-income blacks should still do better than low-income whites.

    The kids of black parents with a 115 IQ should have an IQ of ~103, while the white kids of parents with an 80 IQ should have an IQ of 88. The black kids' IQ fell faster but not enough to have them be equal with the poor white kids.

    A part of the explanation might be that blacks at certain income levels have lower IQs than whites at the same level due to affirmative action. I've met a decent number of fairly high income blacks (almost all working for the government or companies that do a lot of business with the government), and they are surprisingly dull witted. The speak reasonably well, but once you get into details, they fade quickly. Therefore, it may be higher income blacks don't have that high of an IQ to start out with, though certainly higher than the lowest income whites.

    As a result, whites in the top quintile of income likely have IQs above ~110 and probably average ~120, but blacks might be a good 10 points or more lower on each.

    Now, if you have black parents with 110 IQ, their kids would have an IQ of 10 right at the white average but still better than poor whites. (This explains the dismal performance of the few upper middle class black kids who attend mostly white, i.e. good, high schools.)

    Regardless, I'm still not sure how poor white kids with an IQ of ~90 are scoring the same as the ~100 IQ black kids of high income parents.

    Part of it might be that blacks - even 100 IQ blacks - lack other behavioral traits that would help them on tests such as conscientiousness. Throw in a culture that despises learning and, well, anything civilized, and you get pretty similar scores.

    Assortative mating for intelligence is not nearly that strong. Class is a poor proxy, so even if one parent is genetically far away from the median on intelligence it’s not a guarantee the other is.

    Worth longer discussion elsewhere sometime, but assortative mating for intelligence within racial groups might even have been going down in prevalence in recent decades compared to earlier in the 20th century. (Overall assortative mating has, but that’s trivial. Useful to gram stain people who are constantly wrong about things. Also trends at the tiny population tails are more irrelevant than weird dysgenics obsessers and others think)

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    but assortative mating for intelligence within racial groups might even have been going down in prevalence in recent decades compared to earlier in the 20th century
     
    That would seem to contradict what Charles Murray has been saying. The whole thesis of Coming Apart is that assortative mating is getting more prevalent. But I don't recall seeing any numbers on it either way so who knows.
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  67. @anonymous
    You are part of the problem. Why are you out there, and not helping the white race when it is needed? You're a Boomer nationalist, a traitor who plays at being an ethnonationalist.

    You are part of the problem. Why are you out there, and not helping the white race when it is needed?

    I’m not out there any longer, you illiterate cretin. Not that it matters. I don’t play at being an ethnonationalist.

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  68. @Autochthon
    When I worked in fast food I was always put on the drive-through register because it is the bottleneck and most requires speed and half a brain. I made change like clockwork, instantly (that's not a boast; it's of course very easy!).

    Cost: $2.94 | Tender: $10.00 | Change: $7.06

    Cost: $5.78 | Tender: $20.00 | Change: $14.22


    And so on. Hours and hours nonstop. Just left the register's till open and hit the default key indicating exact change had been tendered over and over. It's just understanding the decimal system. I could have done it when I was ten years old or younger. Anyone should be able to. People flew through that drive-through so long as the cooks were on their game.

    Yet everyone except the manager thought I was some kind of mathematical savant. One girl actually kept a calculator there, separate from the register, because she was nervous about typing amounts into the register directly the first go-round. It was sad. She was sweet. I wasn't annoyed with her. I tried to teach her. It was hopeless. My manager would give up and have me take over. This went on with everyone we tried to train. I cannot imagine what it was like when I wasn't working.

    Was it because most bright people are born to parents bright enough to have jobs that insulate their kids from having to work at Arby's? What's it like now that instead of middle-class and lower-class American (white) teens these jobs are filled by Guatamalan mestizoids? Do we even know, because now doesn't the register literally spit out the proper coins into a little dish in many places?

    I'd be genuinely interested to read ethnographic field-research or even a controlled experiment amongst undergraduate students of psychology to see how well or poorly the average person does at this basically task in our current dystopian, shit-hole society.

    Any thoughts from Neoconned?

    Was it because most bright people are born to parents bright enough to have jobs that insulate their kids from having to work at Arby’s? What’s it like now that instead of middle-class and lower-class American (white) teens these jobs are filled by Guatamalan mestizoids? Do we even know, because now doesn’t the register literally spit out the proper coins into a little dish in many places?

    I wonder that myself. But I doubt it’s the first environmental explanation. I’ve never worked behind a cash register, and I know how to quickly work out the correct change. I’m now in the habit of preemptively explaining my actions to clerks so they don’t get too flustered by me handing them something other than a single bill or the exact change. Occasionally, some of what I guess must be the smarter clerks will look a little annoyed because – like you in your fast food days – they don’t need my explanation. But they are a small percentage of the clerks I bump into.

    To be fair, some of the dumbest clerks I meet aren’t minorities. They are older white trash who look as if they’ve just gone on the wagon after a lifetime of meth.

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  69. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @piefacedprince
    There was a report of a Japanese researcher who measured IQs in different parts of Japan. The average in Northern Japan was 110 and the average in Southern Japan was 95, quite a large variation --if I remember correctly. Google might find the report. East Asians tend to do well on IQ tests,but I don't know if the tests are equally predictive for them, and that's what matters. If the Asian distributions have the same range and form as the European distributions, then the Asians would have many more extremely high IQs.

    Actually, according to the paper you refer to, nearly the entire north-south spread across Japan falls within a 2.5-3 IQ point difference (roughly 103-106, with Okinawa at 97 being an outlier). The north-south “IQ” correlation is very weak, and it certainly doesn’t explain why some prefectures from southern Kyushu scored well, while many northern prefectures scored low. The study also makes the assumption that the standard deviation is 15. If Japan’s standard deviation happened to be smaller, then the “IQ” differences would be smaller as well.

    I say “IQ” because the test used in the paper is neither an IQ test, nor a serious academic test. It is a run-of-the-mill, knowledge-based achievement test. Also, according to the Japan Times, the ‘gap’ has narrowed since then:

    But the ministry said the gap between the national average and the scores of the prefectures ranked at the bottom have narrowed in recent years, thanks to efforts to make improvements in the low-ranking prefectures.

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/08/28/reference/japans-annual-student-achievement-test-worth-cost/

    The Kenya Kura paper is essentially garbage, with too many problems to list here. Just a coincidence I’m sure, but Kura happens to be a big fan of guys like Cochran, Harpending, and Lynn.

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  70. @MSP
    I think part of it is that only the smartest poor white kids take college entrance exams, whereas probably all of the kids of upper class blacks are expected to take the SAT and go to college.

    Yeah, forgot to mention that. I’d suspect that this impacts the numbers a fair amount.

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  71. @Krastos the Gluemaker
    Assortative mating for intelligence is not nearly that strong. Class is a poor proxy, so even if one parent is genetically far away from the median on intelligence it's not a guarantee the other is.

    Worth longer discussion elsewhere sometime, but assortative mating for intelligence within racial groups might even have been going down in prevalence in recent decades compared to earlier in the 20th century. (Overall assortative mating has, but that's trivial. Useful to gram stain people who are constantly wrong about things. Also trends at the tiny population tails are more irrelevant than weird dysgenics obsessers and others think)

    but assortative mating for intelligence within racial groups might even have been going down in prevalence in recent decades compared to earlier in the 20th century

    That would seem to contradict what Charles Murray has been saying. The whole thesis of Coming Apart is that assortative mating is getting more prevalent. But I don’t recall seeing any numbers on it either way so who knows.

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  72. Brutusale says:
    @Autochthon
    Excepting Alexander the Great, literally every single army that has invaded Afghanistan has gotten "crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribsemen."

    (Despite official maps and boundaries, the Mongols and Tamerlane actually mostly just went around the place or avoided it.)

    How's what used to be the U.S.A. doing there after, what, twenty years almost?

    After beating their collective heads against that particular wall for 10 years, at least the Russians were smart enough to get the Hell out!

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  73. phil says:
    @phil
    It's not particularly meaningful to put test scores on an IQ scale for ages 16-65 and then compare means across countries.

    The Lynn-Vanhanen dataset attempts to adjust for Flynn effects, but assumes that Flynn effects are uniform across countries when, in fact, South Korea probably had an unusually large Flynn effect. Other countries may also have deviated from the norm.

    All are agreed that the PIAAC results reflect positive Flynn effects within countries, effects that are inversely related to age, but the age-structures of the various countries are not the same, so computing means and comparing them across countries means what? That one country is smarter than another, or one country has more young people than another?

    The data have too many moving parts to make for meaningful comparisons.

    You are too tempted to be cynical and throw out everything. With some effort, raw IQ scores can often be properly adjusted for Flynn effects.

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  74. 3g4me says:
    @Autochthon
    When I worked in fast food I was always put on the drive-through register because it is the bottleneck and most requires speed and half a brain. I made change like clockwork, instantly (that's not a boast; it's of course very easy!).

    Cost: $2.94 | Tender: $10.00 | Change: $7.06

    Cost: $5.78 | Tender: $20.00 | Change: $14.22


    And so on. Hours and hours nonstop. Just left the register's till open and hit the default key indicating exact change had been tendered over and over. It's just understanding the decimal system. I could have done it when I was ten years old or younger. Anyone should be able to. People flew through that drive-through so long as the cooks were on their game.

    Yet everyone except the manager thought I was some kind of mathematical savant. One girl actually kept a calculator there, separate from the register, because she was nervous about typing amounts into the register directly the first go-round. It was sad. She was sweet. I wasn't annoyed with her. I tried to teach her. It was hopeless. My manager would give up and have me take over. This went on with everyone we tried to train. I cannot imagine what it was like when I wasn't working.

    Was it because most bright people are born to parents bright enough to have jobs that insulate their kids from having to work at Arby's? What's it like now that instead of middle-class and lower-class American (white) teens these jobs are filled by Guatamalan mestizoids? Do we even know, because now doesn't the register literally spit out the proper coins into a little dish in many places?

    I'd be genuinely interested to read ethnographic field-research or even a controlled experiment amongst undergraduate students of psychology to see how well or poorly the average person does at this basically task in our current dystopian, shit-hole society.

    Any thoughts from Neoconned?

    @54 Autochthon: “Yet everyone except the manager thought I was some kind of mathematical savant. One girl actually kept a calculator there, separate from the register, because she was nervous about typing amounts into the register directly the first go-round. It was sad. She was sweet. I wasn’t annoyed with her. I tried to teach her. It was hopeless. ”

    I tried explaining, as a customer to a young non-White cashieress, that to get 10% of a price (for a manager’s authorized discount on something) you merely had to move the decimal point. She was as dubious as a White would be when told to burn a chicken bone and feathers for a religious ceremony. Literally no idea what I was talking about. The sad thing is that applies to most White kids today, too, unless they were home schooled or private schooled. One of my husband’s friends briefly employed our older son, along with his own, and repeatedly wondered why ours knew how to read and write in proper cursive and could do math in his head. Ours went to Christian schools; his went to college.

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  75. @Autochthon
    Excepting Alexander the Great, literally every single army that has invaded Afghanistan has gotten "crap beaten out of them by a bunch of tribsemen."

    (Despite official maps and boundaries, the Mongols and Tamerlane actually mostly just went around the place or avoided it.)

    How's what used to be the U.S.A. doing there after, what, twenty years almost?

    That video is lol.

    Anyway the notion that Afghanistan was never conquered is pure bullshit. For most of it’s history Afghanistan was under foreign control.

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Was it? By whom? When? (Excepting the Alexander and Bactrian legacy of his conquest.)

    (I'm not interested in those whose claims were as meaningful as the claims of Portugal to control the inner reaches of the Amazon Basin once upon a time.)
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  76. @Dr van nostrand
    That video is lol.

    Anyway the notion that Afghanistan was never conquered is pure bullshit. For most of it's history Afghanistan was under foreign control.

    Was it? By whom? When? (Excepting the Alexander and Bactrian legacy of his conquest.)

    (I’m not interested in those whose claims were as meaningful as the claims of Portugal to control the inner reaches of the Amazon Basin once upon a time.)

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