The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
"A Billion Immigrants:" An Economist in Fresno Rethinks Open Borders
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From Open Borders:

How Would a Billion Immigrants Change the American Polity?
AUGUST 14, 2015 NATHAN SMITH 30 COMMENTS

and

A Billion Immigrants: Continuing the Conversation
SEPTEMBER 23, 2015 NATHAN SMITH

My recent post, “How Would a Billion Immigrants Change the American Polity?” attracted a fair amount of attention, most recently an article in the Washington Examiner with the deliciously intriguing headline “Open Borders Would Produce Dystopia, says Open Borders Advocate.” The headline, which somewhat misrepresents the more balanced article by Michael Barone that appears beneath it, is a crude caricature yet in its way bracingly lucid, for it points to what I think this debate has clarified, namely, that the chief difference between open borders advocates and their critics lies not in what they foresee but in how they assess it. …

Nathan Smith is an assistant professor of economics at Fresno Pacific University. He did his Ph.D. in economics from George Mason University.

Fresno is a good place from which to get an inkling of what Open Borders has in store for America.

Fresno is much more eye-opening than the lavishly taxpayer-subsidized D.C. Deep State suburbs where George Mason U. is located.

Alternatively, Salinas, California might be an instructive model for the servant society of the future. Unlike Fresno, which is far away from rich people, Salinas is only 22 miles from Carmel-by-the-Sea, but it’s tucked away from the coast so it doesn’t trouble rich people’s sightlines.

 
Hide 182 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. Male of the Year was Enrique Marquez.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/announcing-the-2015-male-of-the-year/

    Is Melissa Reyes the Female of the Year?

    Hey, better than winning the Oscars.

    Mexicans are cleaning up on the Sailer Awards.

  2. That people have to ASK such questions goes to show how messed up the West is.

    I mean any person with sense knows without asking.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    There really should be a word for the propensity of academics to seek to give a veneer of scholarship to conclusions which are simply the opposite of good sense and reason. Of course anyone who isn't an artificial intelligence prototype knows that the economic benefits of a Billion more (foreign born) people eating and shitting in the United States would be outweighed by the disastrous externalities. But it takes an academic to elide all of those obvious negative impacts, dress things up with jargonese, and produce a work of un-reason which is then used as a justification by policy.
  3. George Mason University itself is a state school. So its subsidized both by the state of Virginia and by being in the prosperous DC suburbs which the federal government directly and indirectly ends up pumping a lot of money into.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Ahem… that's the Commonwealth of Virginia.
  4. George Mason U. is also the home base of Tyler the Taxeater Cowen, the libertarian economist.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.
    , @berserker
    I wonder why libertarian economists seek tenured positions. Shouldn't they be selling their ideas in the free market?
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    George Mason U. is also the home base of Bryan "It's open borders that makes the eventual abolition of the welfare state imaginable" Caplan, another libertarian economist.

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/09/the_political_e_6.html

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/09/ethnic_diversit.html

  5. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.

    As it is connected to the US, a lot of illegals sneak in without permission.

    But other nations have to wait in line… though, to be sure, plenty of people overstay their visas and remain illegally.
    But from Mexico, it is a flood, especially as Central Americans use Mexico as bridge to make it to America.

    Suppose US were an island nation without Mexico being attached to it. Mexican immigrants would have to apply like all other nations.

    Then, US immigration policy might be something more like Canada and Australia’s.
    It might favor the educated and skilled over the less educated and skilled.

    Indeed, from Asia, Africa, and lower parts of Latin America, US generally takes above-average types than the dirt poor folks. But from Mexico and Central America, it takes a lot of below-average types.

    So, from most of the world, US takes in uppers than the lowers. But from Mexico, it takes in more lowers than uppers(who have good lives as yuppies in Mexico City and nice urban areas).

    Europe has the same problem but with different peoples.

    As Europe is closer to Middle East and Africa, a lot of illegal lowers — those might be called ‘childish savages’ — enter from the south through Turkey and Greece as land bridge or through the Mediterranean which can be crossed with rickety boats.

    If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. I don’t see dirt poor Mexers getting visas and documentation to fly to Europe. Much easier to cross into the US.
    Likewise, it’s so much easier for the lowers of Middle East and Africa to move into Europe by boat or land bridges.

    In contrast, US tends to take in better people from Africa and Middle East(though some of these people may still be below white American standards).

    Anyway, even if US were an island and could be more selective with immigration, too much of this stuff is gonna be bad for US masses and for foreign masses in foreign nations.

    US masses will have to compete with foreign talent. If all the Asians hadn’t arrived in the US, a lot of those college slots would have gone to whites(and blacks). And there would be many more good jobs for native-born Americans.

    Also, less developed nations will lose their brains to the US and the West, and how does that serve the foreign nations? It’s brain robbery by the West.

    Mexico is a special case. Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses who could come to US and find jobs and send money back home. It hasn’t been good for white working class and blacks, but Mexican migration to US hasn’t hurt Mexico cuz Mexico could keep the uppers to work on Mexico while sending the lowers to scrounge for jobs in the US.

    But for other nations, emigration of talent to the US has hurt their nations. They have limited number of brains, but so many come to the West.

    • Replies: @bomag
    Well, maybe we get other country's "uppers", but they aren't giving us anything we could have had anyway. Plus they keep the political pressure on for open borders, so it ends up just being a looting expedition: "uppers" today, "lowers" tomorrow because the skids are greased.

    Oceans aren't the barriers they once were. Instead of adapting, our leaders just make things worse.
    , @iSteveFan

    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.
     
    Yes it is. Mexico is a New World nation blessed with many resources, two large coastlines and a nice climate. It is the only nation with free trade access to both the US and EU markets. It should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants to the US, sending almost as many immigrants in 35 years as the next two largest source nations have sent in four hundred years. Large immigration waves from such a nation should not be happening. It speaks volumes to the nation they have created.
    , @(((Owen)))
    "If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. "

    Mexicans don't require a visa to visit Europe. You just buy a ticket and fly across the Atlantic direct from Mexico City whenever you like. Still Europe doesn't have any kind of Mexican immigration problems. Mexicans that go to Europe are mostly yuppie tourists.

    "Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses"

    No. It divides families and destroys towns and neighborhoods.Have you met Mexican men living ten to an apartment to work at hard labor below minimum wage 11 hours a day to save cash to send home? Missing fingers when they return because they didn't have documentation, workman's comp, safe conditions, or health care? Separated from their wives and children?

    The children at home growing up without fathers aren't happy either. Little boys love a truck but they'd much rather have dad than a shiny new F-150.

    , @BB753
    Europe has no shortage of Equadorans, Colombians and Brazilians. No Mexicans though.
  6. What I want to know is what’s up with all these “conversations” and “journeys” we are subjected to these days? No problem if women want to use the language of the psychiatrist’s couch, but men..?..?..
    Anyways, I’m blaming fluorides and BPA plastics in the water.

    • Replies: @SFG
    I find it kind of annoying, but the trip is an old metaphor, back to Pilgrim's Progress and probably before.

    Conversations? Yeah, that's feminist psychobabble. Especially as 'conversation' usually means 'say what we want you to'. Trump opened a conversation about immigration, didn't he?
    , @SFG
    Oh, and I think the theory was going around that endocrine disruptors were responsible for at least some increase in the incidence of transgenderism--they've apparently been able to cause transgender behavior in animals (they adopt the other sex's mating behaviors, etc.).

    I've been hoping someone on the alt-right can sneak this into the mainstream somehow--it's possible it's caused a lot of harm and grief (because whatever your politics, it's not your fault if some chemical messed up the sexual differentiation process in your brain by binding to an estrogen receptor).
    , @Kylie
    Thank you for sharing your concerns with us.
  7. Particular campus (the main one) has this list of majors:
    http://www.fresno.edu/programs-majors/by-location/fresno-main-campus

  8. Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.

    Not that you’d ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.

    The reason why the wealthy support open borders is because it destroys the value of labor and human right and makes them wealthier in the process.

    And that’s what matters. In fact it’s the defining factor in this years presidential race. Where we have a bunch of open borders globalists vs. the solitary nationalist who wants to build a wall and impose tariffs.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    It won't take a billion low IQ 3d worlders to wreck the place....probably another 50 million or so will do the job, but the cheap labor billionaires will probably overshoot....
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Not that you’d ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more than court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful."

    That's a useful way of looking at them - a good meme to spread.
    , @oh its just me

    Not that you’d ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.
     
    Yep, and MSM are their town criers> not the bearers of 'news' but transmitters of 'the message'
    , @Massimo Heitor

    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.
     
    The U.S. would exist as a physical place... It may undergo secessions or annexations. They may keep the flag or maybe not... But some pieces of it will continue to exist.
  9. Particular campus (the main one) has This list of majors:
    http://www.fresno.edu/programs-majors/by-location/fresno-main-campus

  10. @rod1963
    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.

    Not that you'd ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.

    The reason why the wealthy support open borders is because it destroys the value of labor and human right and makes them wealthier in the process.

    And that's what matters. In fact it's the defining factor in this years presidential race. Where we have a bunch of open borders globalists vs. the solitary nationalist who wants to build a wall and impose tariffs.

    It won’t take a billion low IQ 3d worlders to wreck the place….probably another 50 million or so will do the job, but the cheap labor billionaires will probably overshoot….

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America's land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here.
  11. This was written by a professor? It sounds like it came from a Boys’ State delegate on a whippet binge.

    • Replies: @dr kill
    I recommend Whip it binges. Man, those were the days.
  12. Off topic, but I wonder if it is possible to have cross reference numbers next to each name in the replies so it would be easier to find that particular reply. Sometimes one comment has more than 5 replies and it’s hard to find each one. You have to scroll up and down to find them.. Many replies also don’t have a quote that they are replying to so then you have to go back up to to what they are referencing. You could also have the number of the original comment next to the name.

    Such as comment 10 by Pyrrhus. would have the number 8 next to it so we know this refers to the 8th comment. In comment 8 the reply name Pyrrus would have the number 10 next to it telling us to go right to comment 1o to see Pyrrhus’s reply.

    Some of these comment section reach 300 comments.

    Maybe it’s too difficult to do but it would be nice.

    I don’t know if other people would like that or not. Maybe it’s just me.

    • Replies: @gruff
    If you mouseover the "@whoever" at the beginning of the reply, the message being replied to pops up.
    , @Clyde
    I have none of these problems on a Windows computer using Firefox and Chrome. You must be using a smartphone or tablet. Android problems........just my guess
    , @other anon
    Dude, welcome to the wonder of UNZ, with the best comment features on the net! Gruff's mouseover advice is the quickest way to follow any reply in a thread. Or to see all replies in a thread, click "This Thread" beneath the comment (if you don't see it on your smartphone, then click "More" and you'll see it.) It's so much better than the embedded/indented reply format elsewhere on the web. It's my understanding that Ron Unz himself wrote the code. To go back to all comments click "Display All Comments".
    And again, welcome to unz.com!
  13. I’ve said in jest the quickest way to end the left’s cries of “racism” in criminal justice is, as a condition of parole and probation, to force parolees and and probationers to live in specialized housing located only in the richest blue-voting areas of their state. That would end a lot of opposition to the state being “tough on crime.”

    Now I’m thinking I shouldn’t have said it in jest.

  14. The only borders this guy doesn’t like are national borders. Why he distinguishes them from private borders or his own personal / physical borders is lost on me… logically I mean.

    • Replies: @ben tillman

    The only borders this guy doesn’t like are national borders. Why he distinguishes them from private borders or his own personal / physical borders is lost on me… logically I mean.
     
    You're absolutely right. There's no principled way to do what he does. It's just ad-hoc inconsistency in service of a destructive agenda.
  15. @Clyde
    What I want to know is what's up with all these "conversations" and "journeys" we are subjected to these days? No problem if women want to use the language of the psychiatrist's couch, but men..?..?..
    Anyways, I'm blaming fluorides and BPA plastics in the water.

    I find it kind of annoying, but the trip is an old metaphor, back to Pilgrim’s Progress and probably before.

    Conversations? Yeah, that’s feminist psychobabble. Especially as ‘conversation’ usually means ‘say what we want you to’. Trump opened a conversation about immigration, didn’t he?

    • Replies: @Clyde

    Conversations? Yeah, that’s feminist psychobabble
     
    "Journey" is psychobabble too and only started ruining our language in the last two years.
  16. @Clyde
    What I want to know is what's up with all these "conversations" and "journeys" we are subjected to these days? No problem if women want to use the language of the psychiatrist's couch, but men..?..?..
    Anyways, I'm blaming fluorides and BPA plastics in the water.

    Oh, and I think the theory was going around that endocrine disruptors were responsible for at least some increase in the incidence of transgenderism–they’ve apparently been able to cause transgender behavior in animals (they adopt the other sex’s mating behaviors, etc.).

    I’ve been hoping someone on the alt-right can sneak this into the mainstream somehow–it’s possible it’s caused a lot of harm and grief (because whatever your politics, it’s not your fault if some chemical messed up the sexual differentiation process in your brain by binding to an estrogen receptor).

  17. @Ttjy
    Off topic, but I wonder if it is possible to have cross reference numbers next to each name in the replies so it would be easier to find that particular reply. Sometimes one comment has more than 5 replies and it's hard to find each one. You have to scroll up and down to find them.. Many replies also don't have a quote that they are replying to so then you have to go back up to to what they are referencing. You could also have the number of the original comment next to the name.

    Such as comment 10 by Pyrrhus. @rod1963 would have the number 8 next to it so we know this refers to the 8th comment. In comment 8 the reply name Pyrrus would have the number 10 next to it telling us to go right to comment 1o to see Pyrrhus's reply.

    Some of these comment section reach 300 comments.

    Maybe it's too difficult to do but it would be nice.

    I don't know if other people would like that or not. Maybe it's just me.

    If you mouseover the “@whoever” at the beginning of the reply, the message being replied to pops up.

    • Replies: @Ttjy
    Thanks I didn't know that.
  18. @SFG
    I find it kind of annoying, but the trip is an old metaphor, back to Pilgrim's Progress and probably before.

    Conversations? Yeah, that's feminist psychobabble. Especially as 'conversation' usually means 'say what we want you to'. Trump opened a conversation about immigration, didn't he?

    Conversations? Yeah, that’s feminist psychobabble

    “Journey” is psychobabble too and only started ruining our language in the last two years.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    “Journey” is psychobabble too and only started ruining our language in the last two years.
     
    Steve Perry's voice has been ruining the airwaves for four decades.
  19. @Ttjy
    Off topic, but I wonder if it is possible to have cross reference numbers next to each name in the replies so it would be easier to find that particular reply. Sometimes one comment has more than 5 replies and it's hard to find each one. You have to scroll up and down to find them.. Many replies also don't have a quote that they are replying to so then you have to go back up to to what they are referencing. You could also have the number of the original comment next to the name.

    Such as comment 10 by Pyrrhus. @rod1963 would have the number 8 next to it so we know this refers to the 8th comment. In comment 8 the reply name Pyrrus would have the number 10 next to it telling us to go right to comment 1o to see Pyrrhus's reply.

    Some of these comment section reach 300 comments.

    Maybe it's too difficult to do but it would be nice.

    I don't know if other people would like that or not. Maybe it's just me.

    I have none of these problems on a Windows computer using Firefox and Chrome. You must be using a smartphone or tablet. Android problems……..just my guess

  20. Nathan Smith: Now, migration restrictions involve doing terrible things to people. US immigration enforcement separates thousands of parents from their children by force ever year. European coast guards are culpable for a mounting toll of migrant deaths at sea, and so on. These things simply must stop.

    As Voxday explains, “SJW’s always lie.” Illegal aliens could share happy family lives with their children in their own countries, forever undisturbed by “US immigration enforcement,” but choose instead to mistreat their own children out of recklessness or greed. European coast guards don’t kill migrants at sea,* rather smugglers and migratory muslims kill migrants at sea– and no economic migrants would die if they just stayed home!

    Australia stopped “these things” quite “simply” by stopping the boats and refusing Australian residence to illegal migrants.

    *Perhaps Smith is right to blame European coast guards for migrant deaths, but only because the politicians in charge of European coast guards have invited migrants to use them as free ferry services– sending boats to pick up migrants who paddle out from the North African coast in dinghies which they capsize deliberately when they see European coast guard vessels, which then transport said migrants to the SJW paradise of welfare payments for unemployable rapists.

  21. @Jean Cocteausten
    This was written by a professor? It sounds like it came from a Boys' State delegate on a whippet binge.

    I recommend Whip it binges. Man, those were the days.

  22. @gruff
    If you mouseover the "@whoever" at the beginning of the reply, the message being replied to pops up.

    Thanks I didn’t know that.

  23. Fresno is the city for lower working class blue collar Hmongs, Hispanics, and African Americans who can not afford to live in the Los Angeles metropolitan area, the San Diego metropolitan area, or the Bay Area.

  24. Excellent links!

    It is time for a lot more of this type of serious grappling with what the US would look like after massive immigration. While far from certain what would happen, it is a real shock to contemplate the magnitude of the possible changes. A flavor of what I mean:

    Segregation, … would make neighborhoods and workplaces, and a fortiori churches and community organizations, far more homogeneous than the resident population as a whole … private discrimination would be widely practiced …. Many natives would retreat into gated communities … There would be large immigrant neighborhoods dominated by particular ethnicities, where English was rarely spoken … law enforcement would often be baffled by new and complex challenges. The overworked and puzzled courts would have to improvise and compromise and decline a lot of cases, and would end up leaving a lot of stuff in an emerging domain of private law. I’d expect gaps to emerge where representatives of the official courts feared to tread and a kind of anarcho-capitalist natural law would prevail, and these might be the most productive, innovative, prosperous places in the new, open-borders America.

    There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies … intermittent, local stirrings of revolt would transform the American psyche enough to make weapons training in schools or even universal conscription into some sort of national police force attractive, in order to empower the citizenry physically to defend its sovereignty against a possible immigrant revolution. The vote and citizenship would likely be bestowed opportunistically on immigrant groups … for partisan advantage when Republicans or Democrats found themselves favored by some immigrant group.

    This last paragraph sounds like a constant state of civil war like, oh I don’t know, … Syria?

    How likely is it that the US would maintain its current level of prosperity if subjected to a Syrian-style continual civil war?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies …"

    Neal Stephenson's sci-fi novel "Snow Crash" is an interesting thing because different people describe its picture of a privatized future America run by corporations and ethnic groups as either "dystopian" or "utopian."

  25. @Anonymous
    George Mason U. is also the home base of Tyler the Taxeater Cowen, the libertarian economist.

    The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The Kochs primarily donate to 2 think tanks based at George Mason U., the Mercatus Center and the Institute for Humane Studies. The university itself is state subsidized and is in an area that receives lots of government spending. In other words, these cheap assholes don't have the integrity to actually practice what they preach, but they let taxpayers pay for the actual university and the sinecures of these economics professors.
    , @Jefferson
    "The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results."

    I remenber when Conservative Canadian Steven Crowder was interviewing Left Wing SWPL Occupy Wall Street members, they all seem to be familiar with "evil" The Koch Brothers. But when Steven asked them about George Soros, most of them have no clue who he is.

    Why are The Koch Brothers more famous than George Soros among SWPL college students/social justice warriors?
    , @Mr. Anon
    "Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results."

    They've been at it longer. I'm sure that Koch-money, along with Soros-money, will be screwing stuff up for a long time to come.
  26. @pyrrhus
    It won't take a billion low IQ 3d worlders to wreck the place....probably another 50 million or so will do the job, but the cheap labor billionaires will probably overshoot....

    India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America’s land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America’s land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here."

    The majority of the Indian underclass do not have indoor plumbing in their homes. Is that what most of the elites in Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Washington DC want for the American underclass as well?

    , @Paul Renault
    India does not have a couple hundred million firearms in private possession.
  27. @FactsAreImportant
    Excellent links!

    It is time for a lot more of this type of serious grappling with what the US would look like after massive immigration. While far from certain what would happen, it is a real shock to contemplate the magnitude of the possible changes. A flavor of what I mean:

    Segregation, ... would make neighborhoods and workplaces, and a fortiori churches and community organizations, far more homogeneous than the resident population as a whole ... private discrimination would be widely practiced .... Many natives would retreat into gated communities ... There would be large immigrant neighborhoods dominated by particular ethnicities, where English was rarely spoken ... law enforcement would often be baffled by new and complex challenges. The overworked and puzzled courts would have to improvise and compromise and decline a lot of cases, and would end up leaving a lot of stuff in an emerging domain of private law. I’d expect gaps to emerge where representatives of the official courts feared to tread and a kind of anarcho-capitalist natural law would prevail, and these might be the most productive, innovative, prosperous places in the new, open-borders America.

    There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies ... intermittent, local stirrings of revolt would transform the American psyche enough to make weapons training in schools or even universal conscription into some sort of national police force attractive, in order to empower the citizenry physically to defend its sovereignty against a possible immigrant revolution. The vote and citizenship would likely be bestowed opportunistically on immigrant groups ... for partisan advantage when Republicans or Democrats found themselves favored by some immigrant group.
     
    This last paragraph sounds like a constant state of civil war like, oh I don't know, ... Syria?

    How likely is it that the US would maintain its current level of prosperity if subjected to a Syrian-style continual civil war?

    “There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies …”

    Neal Stephenson’s sci-fi novel “Snow Crash” is an interesting thing because different people describe its picture of a privatized future America run by corporations and ethnic groups as either “dystopian” or “utopian.”

    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    I thought the interesting part of Snow Crash was the alliance between the HK Chinese and the Sicilian Mafia as a counterweight against the Evangelical Churchian.
    , @Bies Podkrakowski
    Is this a function of age?

    When I read "Snow Crash" in high-school it seemed cool. Cyberpunkish, anti-heroes (Raven!, glass knives!), grrl-power!, faithful robotic dogs! Katana wielding pizza deliverer! And of course old fashioned government that was at once bad, corrupted, inefficient and powerful. Free market heroes were efficient and reasonable.

    Now I am older and social dynamic of the Raft is much more fascinating. I probably will not wield katana in my life but I may get visited by people from the Raft.
    , @SFG
    Who describes Snow Crash as utopian? It was written solidly during the cyberpunk era when people were looking ahead to a dark future, and the hero-protagonist, Hiro Protagonist, lives in a storage compartment.
  28. @Steve Sailer
    "There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies …"

    Neal Stephenson's sci-fi novel "Snow Crash" is an interesting thing because different people describe its picture of a privatized future America run by corporations and ethnic groups as either "dystopian" or "utopian."

    I thought the interesting part of Snow Crash was the alliance between the HK Chinese and the Sicilian Mafia as a counterweight against the Evangelical Churchian.

  29. @Anon
    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.

    As it is connected to the US, a lot of illegals sneak in without permission.

    But other nations have to wait in line... though, to be sure, plenty of people overstay their visas and remain illegally.
    But from Mexico, it is a flood, especially as Central Americans use Mexico as bridge to make it to America.

    Suppose US were an island nation without Mexico being attached to it. Mexican immigrants would have to apply like all other nations.

    Then, US immigration policy might be something more like Canada and Australia's.
    It might favor the educated and skilled over the less educated and skilled.

    Indeed, from Asia, Africa, and lower parts of Latin America, US generally takes above-average types than the dirt poor folks. But from Mexico and Central America, it takes a lot of below-average types.

    So, from most of the world, US takes in uppers than the lowers. But from Mexico, it takes in more lowers than uppers(who have good lives as yuppies in Mexico City and nice urban areas).

    Europe has the same problem but with different peoples.

    As Europe is closer to Middle East and Africa, a lot of illegal lowers --- those might be called 'childish savages' --- enter from the south through Turkey and Greece as land bridge or through the Mediterranean which can be crossed with rickety boats.

    If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. I don't see dirt poor Mexers getting visas and documentation to fly to Europe. Much easier to cross into the US.
    Likewise, it's so much easier for the lowers of Middle East and Africa to move into Europe by boat or land bridges.

    In contrast, US tends to take in better people from Africa and Middle East(though some of these people may still be below white American standards).

    Anyway, even if US were an island and could be more selective with immigration, too much of this stuff is gonna be bad for US masses and for foreign masses in foreign nations.

    US masses will have to compete with foreign talent. If all the Asians hadn't arrived in the US, a lot of those college slots would have gone to whites(and blacks). And there would be many more good jobs for native-born Americans.

    Also, less developed nations will lose their brains to the US and the West, and how does that serve the foreign nations? It's brain robbery by the West.

    Mexico is a special case. Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses who could come to US and find jobs and send money back home. It hasn't been good for white working class and blacks, but Mexican migration to US hasn't hurt Mexico cuz Mexico could keep the uppers to work on Mexico while sending the lowers to scrounge for jobs in the US.

    But for other nations, emigration of talent to the US has hurt their nations. They have limited number of brains, but so many come to the West.

    Well, maybe we get other country’s “uppers”, but they aren’t giving us anything we could have had anyway. Plus they keep the political pressure on for open borders, so it ends up just being a looting expedition: “uppers” today, “lowers” tomorrow because the skids are greased.

    Oceans aren’t the barriers they once were. Instead of adapting, our leaders just make things worse.

  30. @Maj. Kong
    India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America's land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here.

    “India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America’s land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here.”

    The majority of the Indian underclass do not have indoor plumbing in their homes. Is that what most of the elites in Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Washington DC want for the American underclass as well?

    • Replies: @ivvenalis
    My understanding of Open Borders thinking is that 30 million American without running water would be acceptable as long as it means that 30 million + 1 Indians (or whoever) previously living without it now have indoor plumbing in their shanties.
    , @Maj. Kong
    How else is magic dirt going to be made?
  31. I think the most important thing to consider when discussing real world immigration is the the fact that there are actually 7 billion souls alive and well around the globe. People, regardless of political persuasion, really have not grappled with that in America. That’s why we immigration realists think the whole immigration romantic viewpoint is so vacuous.

  32. @Anonymous
    George Mason University itself is a state school. So its subsidized both by the state of Virginia and by being in the prosperous DC suburbs which the federal government directly and indirectly ends up pumping a lot of money into.

    Ahem… that’s the Commonwealth of Virginia.

  33. @Clyde

    Conversations? Yeah, that’s feminist psychobabble
     
    "Journey" is psychobabble too and only started ruining our language in the last two years.

    “Journey” is psychobabble too and only started ruining our language in the last two years.

    Steve Perry’s voice has been ruining the airwaves for four decades.

  34. @Ttjy
    Off topic, but I wonder if it is possible to have cross reference numbers next to each name in the replies so it would be easier to find that particular reply. Sometimes one comment has more than 5 replies and it's hard to find each one. You have to scroll up and down to find them.. Many replies also don't have a quote that they are replying to so then you have to go back up to to what they are referencing. You could also have the number of the original comment next to the name.

    Such as comment 10 by Pyrrhus. @rod1963 would have the number 8 next to it so we know this refers to the 8th comment. In comment 8 the reply name Pyrrus would have the number 10 next to it telling us to go right to comment 1o to see Pyrrhus's reply.

    Some of these comment section reach 300 comments.

    Maybe it's too difficult to do but it would be nice.

    I don't know if other people would like that or not. Maybe it's just me.

    Dude, welcome to the wonder of UNZ, with the best comment features on the net! Gruff’s mouseover advice is the quickest way to follow any reply in a thread. Or to see all replies in a thread, click “This Thread” beneath the comment (if you don’t see it on your smartphone, then click “More” and you’ll see it.) It’s so much better than the embedded/indented reply format elsewhere on the web. It’s my understanding that Ron Unz himself wrote the code. To go back to all comments click “Display All Comments”.
    And again, welcome to unz.com!

  35. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Maj. Kong
    The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.

    The Kochs primarily donate to 2 think tanks based at George Mason U., the Mercatus Center and the Institute for Humane Studies. The university itself is state subsidized and is in an area that receives lots of government spending. In other words, these cheap assholes don’t have the integrity to actually practice what they preach, but they let taxpayers pay for the actual university and the sinecures of these economics professors.

  36. America is finished, kaput. Its future is a slightly improved Latin America mixed with Hong Kong. I don’t even know why so many want to immigrate to that doomed country.

    Maybe Australia and New Zealand can keep the Anglosphere going on. (Canada also isn’t going to survive, their multiculturalization is happening even faster than in the US, considering that it was 95% white just 30 years ago and now it’s 25% non-white)

    I have more faith that Germany, Italy or even Spain (not France, France is fucked as well) will survive as nations in the 22nd century than the US (at least, a recognizably Anglo US).

    The fact is that this so-called “globalization” or world immigration in such a large scale is in many ways a new phenomenon, thanks in large part to technology, but also to a certain mentality, and if White-Europeans want to survive, they need to adapt.

    Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation, or maybe they need to become nazis and build walls and shoot people, or if not find other ways to isolate themselves from the dark masses, perhaps become like the Amish, I don’t really know, but whatever they are doing now, is not working.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation,"

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    Among Jewish Millennials, half Jews and quarter Jews outnumber pure Jews.

    Most Jewish Millennials in the U.S do not have 2 Jewish parents. That is why Rabbis in this country are extremely worried.

    Harrison Ford's Millennial kids for example are only 1/8 Jewish. Carrie Fisher's Millennial blonde daughter is only 1/4 Jewish.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    If there is hope, it lies in the east (eastern Europe and Russia).
    , @Bayonet
    Canada's demographics are changing, but it's largely an issue in the major cities. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc have extremely diverse populations, but in the rural areas in every province it's still odd to see a non-white person.


    Personally, I don't think that this open borders gimmick is going to continue unabated. There is a lot of anti-immigration sentiment simmering in the background, and the inevitable clashes between populations are on the rise (as anyone could predict). I believe that the Western World is heading toward a backlash, and the harder and faster mass immigration is pressed on us, the worse it's going to be. I truly hope something changes before we get to that point.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    You are right about the USA, Dumbo. It is indeed finished and in the lifetime of some of us who are not yet seventy. How we loath those who did this to a once beautiful people, and how we despise those we warned but who would not listen, in 1964.
    But you are quite wrong about France. The French will be the first to react effectively; probably no more than five years from now. None of you people seem to know the French at all: their old elite is still around and is capable of anything once aroused. Just look at the Normans and start dreaming. It won't be pretty, but it will be effective. Actually I don't really mean that: it will be beautiful.
    Italy will survive too as will Switzerland, Spain, the Netherlands, of course all of the East, Denmark, maybe even Sweden.
    Germany is the big question mark. Merkel has robbed them of any excuse any longer that they don't know what this "refugee" madness will do to them. But they are so paralysed by a wholly imaginary "guilt" that only the stupidest and the most far seeing are capable of reacting effectively. If the far seeing succeed in directing the inchoate reactions of the stupid, it will quickly get very interesting.
    , @anon
    It should be becoming obvious enough now that as long as white people create societies that other people want to live in then given modern transport and communications white people won't survive without walls.

    From there they can try and figure out ways of making the people outside not want to immigrate - like special forces CRISPR lab teams who air-drop onto remote villages at night, CRISPR all the women's hair blonde then evac.
  37. Hi Steve!

    Both you and I reacted to the first of those two pieces from Smith over at the Marginal Revolution blog on August 25, 2015 (that site doesn’t offer links to individual comments, so search down for “Steve Sailer” and my remarks are shortly below yours).

    You (Steve Sailer) wrote:

    Libertarians have had a hard time grasping that Stephenson wrote “Snow Crash” as a dystopian satire, not a utopian one. “The Raft,” for example, is obviously lifted from Jean Raspail’s “Camp of the Saints.”

    And I had the privilege of writing a few things, starting with:

    Nathan Smith wrote that he just now comprehended what I pointed out almost three years ago (in remarks cited then by Vipul Naik and others at the Open Borders lobby website): open-borders advocates call for truly massive migration of billions of poor, mostly low-IQ people into advanced countries. Smith then offers his own gloss on another thing I pointed out at that time: such migration would prompt advanced countries to adopt violently repressive governments. Smith suggests that rich countries would have to conscript their citizens into large police forces to control the migrants! (I guess Robin Hanson is less libertarian than some of his friends. Opposing a military draft (“national police conscription”) is, like, foundational libertarianism.

  38. @Anonymous
    The only borders this guy doesn't like are national borders. Why he distinguishes them from private borders or his own personal / physical borders is lost on me... logically I mean.

    The only borders this guy doesn’t like are national borders. Why he distinguishes them from private borders or his own personal / physical borders is lost on me… logically I mean.

    You’re absolutely right. There’s no principled way to do what he does. It’s just ad-hoc inconsistency in service of a destructive agenda.

  39. @Jefferson
    "India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America’s land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here."

    The majority of the Indian underclass do not have indoor plumbing in their homes. Is that what most of the elites in Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Washington DC want for the American underclass as well?

    My understanding of Open Borders thinking is that 30 million American without running water would be acceptable as long as it means that 30 million + 1 Indians (or whoever) previously living without it now have indoor plumbing in their shanties.

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    Giving Indians indoor plumbing might not work. About 600,000,000 defecate outside in India, many by choice.



    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29502603
  40. I also suggested that threats of revolt might lead to the conscription of natives into a domestic police force, but while some might find that unpleasant, it’s not a case of falling living standards.

    AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    How could anyone write this sentence? Am I being trolled?

  41. @Jefferson
    "India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America’s land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here."

    The majority of the Indian underclass do not have indoor plumbing in their homes. Is that what most of the elites in Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Washington DC want for the American underclass as well?

    How else is magic dirt going to be made?

  42. People in Salinas are very good at starting things—launching new campaigns or programs, building new things. But finding the public resources to maintain them has been harder. Driving around town, you can see how Salinas is littered with public institutions it couldn’t quite sustain. A golf course that had to be taken over by First Tee. A public swimming pool that had to be taken over by a private aquatic club. (It’s still open to the public, but at limited hours and for a fee). A performing arts center that is now occupied by a charter school. At police headquarters, a cop tells me how the gang unit is being disbanded so that the understaffed department can have enough people.

    What’s your beef? Salinas is a Libertarian paradise! All the moocher institutions have been privatized and the police are on patrol instead of coaching midnight basketball!

    All kidding aside, California cities full of Mexicans are likely to exhibit the famous Mexican pattern of starting, then abandoning public works. Mexico is littered with crumbling buildings which were supposed to be public amenities but now house squatters or shelter goats. Mexican politicians love ribbon-cutting ceremonies so they spend their budgets all on construction, not operations– indeed, a lot of individual Mexicans behave the same way.

  43. @Dumbo
    America is finished, kaput. Its future is a slightly improved Latin America mixed with Hong Kong. I don't even know why so many want to immigrate to that doomed country.

    Maybe Australia and New Zealand can keep the Anglosphere going on. (Canada also isn't going to survive, their multiculturalization is happening even faster than in the US, considering that it was 95% white just 30 years ago and now it's 25% non-white)

    I have more faith that Germany, Italy or even Spain (not France, France is fucked as well) will survive as nations in the 22nd century than the US (at least, a recognizably Anglo US).

    The fact is that this so-called "globalization" or world immigration in such a large scale is in many ways a new phenomenon, thanks in large part to technology, but also to a certain mentality, and if White-Europeans want to survive, they need to adapt.

    Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation, or maybe they need to become nazis and build walls and shoot people, or if not find other ways to isolate themselves from the dark masses, perhaps become like the Amish, I don't really know, but whatever they are doing now, is not working.

    “Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation,”

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    Among Jewish Millennials, half Jews and quarter Jews outnumber pure Jews.

    Most Jewish Millennials in the U.S do not have 2 Jewish parents. That is why Rabbis in this country are extremely worried.

    Harrison Ford’s Millennial kids for example are only 1/8 Jewish. Carrie Fisher’s Millennial blonde daughter is only 1/4 Jewish.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.
     
    I don't get this sentiment. Didn't they recently show through genetic research that Ashkenazis are a result of Jewish men in Rome marrying Gentile women?
    , @Cryptogenic
    One-way gene flow. Jewish guys get shiksas. Jewish women get Jewish guys.
    , @anon

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.
     
    Orthodox.

    As long as they have a relatively unmixed population they can always undilute again e.g.

    1) marry chinese
    2) children marry orthodox
    3) children marry orthodox
    4) children marry german
    5) children marry orthodox
    6) children marry orthodox
    etc

    (No idea if that happens, just saying it could as long as have two separate breeding populations.)
  44. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    A nation with a billion people would be a mess for the peons but more power for the elites at the top.

    More consumers, more tax-payers, more cannon fodder, etc.

    If China had 200 million than 1.3 billion, it would be less powerful.

    Suppose if China and India didn’t exist.

    Suppose US had the biggest population in the world.

    Maybe US elites wouldn’t be so worried about growing the population.

    When China and India were backward and poor, they hardly posed any kind of challenge to the US. If anything, their population seemed like a burden.

    But now that the are rising in the world(despite recent troubles), maybe US elites think US can only be a superpower with MORE people.

    Besides, with the demise of labor union power in the US, the 1% could easily push around the 99%. Like in China.

    • Replies: @Kyle a
    Not another one of those"China is going to rule the world" types. If you look at china and its economic history the last 200-300 years nothing has changed . They've been a top three power house for a long time.
    , @anon

    A nation with a billion people would be a mess for the peons but more power for the elites at the top. More consumers, more tax-payers, more cannon fodder, etc.
     
    Obvious nonsense: more but poorer consumers and tax payers and less efficient cannon fodder would be less power - as evidenced by India vs US currently.

    What there would be is a bigger gap between the elite and the rest - that's all - and that's all they want - a bigger gap.
  45. @Maj. Kong
    The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.

    “The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.”

    I remenber when Conservative Canadian Steven Crowder was interviewing Left Wing SWPL Occupy Wall Street members, they all seem to be familiar with “evil” The Koch Brothers. But when Steven asked them about George Soros, most of them have no clue who he is.

    Why are The Koch Brothers more famous than George Soros among SWPL college students/social justice warriors?

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Buzzfeed, VICE media, etc...
  46. It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism. The certain results of turning the entire third world loose on the West are very methodically (mis-)forecasted through the lens of an ideology that only appeals, and will only ever appeal, to a small minority of high IQ Western white men. The horde arriving at our doorstep has no concern whatsoever for “deontology” or “utilitarian universalism.” I haven’t fully read through either piece, but this never seems to enter into his mind.

    People like the author can be productive members of Western society, but when advocating national policy they’re basically indistinguishable from lunatics.

    My “billion immigrants” scenario does not involve widespread deprivation of real human goods like food, art, material comforts, family life, freedom of conscience and worship, health, education, truth, adventure, etc. On the contrary, it would seem to involve greater enjoyment of those things by almost everyone[….]

    Well, we won’t be deprived of adventure. Behold the voice of the Outer Party! I have no doubt the author believes this, just as I have no doubt that the Inner Party knows that it’s nonsense and either doesn’t care or aims for those deprivations.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
    >> It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism.

    Very funny. I gotta remember this one.
    , @PhysicistDave
    Spartan wrote:

    It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism.
     
    Nobody owns the word "libertarian" and "libertarians" vary just as widely as "conservatives." No one here would lump Steve Sailer in with Marco Rubio or lump Bill Kristol in with Donald Trump, even though the word "conservative" might be applied to all four gentlemen.

    There is in fact a simple "libertarian" argument against open borders: we and our ancestors paid for the public spaces and amenities in this country -- roads, parks, sidewalks, public transportation, hospitals, schools, etc. -- and to the degree that anyone legitimately owns those facilities, we do. We therefore have a perfect "libertarian" right to deny the use of such facilities to people who did not themselves pay (and whose ancestors did not pay) to build those facilities.

    Very few foreigners are going to come to this country if they have to stay off the roads and sidewalks, avoid public transit, stay out of the hospitals, parks, and schools, etc.!

    This seems to be the basic anti-open-borders argument of the libertarians centered around the Mises Institute, enunciated most clearly by the prominent Misesian, Hans Hoppe. The Mises folks are quite clearly "libertarians" by most criteria, indeed quite radical ones: most seem to favor a level of governmental decentralization that would border on anarchy. But they are critics of the open-borders libertarians.

    Of course, it is easy to find self-proclaimed "libertarians" who differ with the Mises crowd, just as it is easy to find self-proclaimed "conservatives" who differ with Sailer, Trump, Coulter, et al.

    I will not try to argue who the real "libertarians" are; I am merely pointing out that assuming that all libertarians are in the open-borders gang is making a mistake.

    Personally, I have taken to using the term "Thoreauist" instead of "libertarian" to describe my own views so as to avoid confusion (I mean the term in the sense of the "Essay on Civil Disobedience": I have no inclination to live in a cabin out in the woods near a pond).

    Dave Miller in Sacramento
  47. Mainland China has several underpopulated ghost towns with beautiful high rise 1st World looking apartment buildings. But most of the locals can not afford to purchase or rent an apartment in these areas.

    This is how you know Mainland China is still not a fully developed 1st World Country. The per capita purchasing power of the average Mainland Chinese household is still far below that of White Western nation households.

    I doubt Mainland China will ever become a 1st World Country. Too much government corruption combined with the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ being quite low.

    The only reason it seems like the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is so high to us Americans is because we get their cream of the crop minority elite. But average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is closer to that of Filipinos than it is to Ashkenazis, Italians and Anglo Saxon Protestants for example.

    Poverty in Mainland China makes Appalachian poverty look middle class in comparison.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I absolutely disagree with everything you say.

    Firstly, it is pretty much inevitable that per capita Chinese income will exceed per capita American income within the next 30 years.
    People like you used to sneer at 'coolies' in Singapore or Hong Kong, the 'honey wagons' etc. Now Singapore per capita income massively exceeds American income.

    All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.
    , @snorlax

    I doubt Mainland China will ever become a 1st World Country. Too much government corruption combined with the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ being quite low.

    The only reason it seems like the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is so high to us Americans is because we get their cream of the crop minority elite. But average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is closer to that of Filipinos than it is to Ashkenazis, Italians and Anglo Saxon Protestants for example.
     

    Studies have repeatedly shown the average IQ of mainland Han Chinese to be around 105, which is slightly lower than Chinese-Americans but higher than any white gentile group. The Chinese are the Jews of Asia, dominating the elite in every country where they are found in significant numbers. Outside the People's Republic, the places where Han Chinese form a majority (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore) are wealthy, first-world countries.

    Poverty in China has nothing to do with IQ and everything to do with communism. And before communism, the Japanese, and before the Japanese, centuries of emperors who cut off all contact with the "barbarian" outside world.

  48. If the average Han Chinese IQ was so high, most products made in China would not be so vastly inferior.

    All of those dangerous Made In China hoverboards that are catching fire in the U.S, are obviously not being built by triple digit IQ Chinamen.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    Isn't it unscrupulous manufacturers, not incompetent workers or designers, that are to blame for dangerous and inferior Chinese products?
    , @oh its just me
    .... and high iq askanazi dominated wall street would never have fraudsters and failures?
  49. It’s interesting how the age of mass migration from poor countries to rich countries has been paralleled by a widening economic gulf between rich and poor countries. In the 1950s, when the West has much tighter immigration politices, the gap between the West and the rest was much less than it is today.

    However, our elites seem to be of the view that increasing immigration to the west will somehow reduce third world poverty. No one seems to consider the opposite possibility – that immigration from the third world to the West increases poverty in the third world, without benefiting the West much either.

    As we’ve gone from a nationalist to an internationalist world, we’ve stopped looking for national solutions to national problems and turned them into global problems requiring global solutions (everyone loves talking global). Now every country’s problems – be they economic, demographic, ethnic, environmental or law and order issues are somebody else’s problem.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "As we’ve gone from a nationalist to an internationalist world, we’ve stopped looking for national solutions to national problems and turned them into global problems requiring global solutions (everyone loves talking global). Now every country’s problems – be they economic, demographic, ethnic, environmental or law and order issues are somebody else’s problem."

    The only BRIC nation that is taking in Syrian Muslim refugees is Brazil. India, Russia, and China are certainly not doing their part.

    Yet Left Wing economists say that Westerners should all look up to the BRIC nations as examples of excellence.
  50. @Jefferson
    "The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results."

    I remenber when Conservative Canadian Steven Crowder was interviewing Left Wing SWPL Occupy Wall Street members, they all seem to be familiar with "evil" The Koch Brothers. But when Steven asked them about George Soros, most of them have no clue who he is.

    Why are The Koch Brothers more famous than George Soros among SWPL college students/social justice warriors?

    Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Buzzfeed, VICE media, etc…

  51. Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese. There would definitely be way less incidents of them catching fire.

    But since it is a lot cheaper for companies to pay Chinese people instead of Whites to built these things, hoverboards will never be made in White countries.

    Since China has a larger labor workforce due to their 1 billion plus population, they can make more hoverboards in mass bulk.

    The Chinese are all about creating quantity, not quality.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Nothing's stopping a 'white' manufacturer from making them.
    , @snorlax

    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese. There would definitely be way less incidents of them catching fire.
     
    Not if they were built by the Italians...
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese.
     
    I remember seeing a lifeboat labeled "Made in Canada". I had no idea whether to worry or to relax. At least I can swim.
  52. The Left says that more Vibrant Diversity equals more options when it comes to food, but Vibrant DIEversity also equals more cases of food poisoning in the U.S.

    The two times in my life where I got food poisoning, one was from a Mexican restaurant and the other from a Korean restaurant.

    I have never gotten food poisoning from a restaurant that serves European cuisine like Italian, French, German, and Greek.

  53. @unpc downunder
    It's interesting how the age of mass migration from poor countries to rich countries has been paralleled by a widening economic gulf between rich and poor countries. In the 1950s, when the West has much tighter immigration politices, the gap between the West and the rest was much less than it is today.

    However, our elites seem to be of the view that increasing immigration to the west will somehow reduce third world poverty. No one seems to consider the opposite possibility - that immigration from the third world to the West increases poverty in the third world, without benefiting the West much either.

    As we've gone from a nationalist to an internationalist world, we've stopped looking for national solutions to national problems and turned them into global problems requiring global solutions (everyone loves talking global). Now every country's problems - be they economic, demographic, ethnic, environmental or law and order issues are somebody else's problem.

    “As we’ve gone from a nationalist to an internationalist world, we’ve stopped looking for national solutions to national problems and turned them into global problems requiring global solutions (everyone loves talking global). Now every country’s problems – be they economic, demographic, ethnic, environmental or law and order issues are somebody else’s problem.”

    The only BRIC nation that is taking in Syrian Muslim refugees is Brazil. India, Russia, and China are certainly not doing their part.

    Yet Left Wing economists say that Westerners should all look up to the BRIC nations as examples of excellence.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    "The only BRIC nation that is taking in Syrian Muslim refugees is Brazil. India, Russia, and China are certainly not doing their part."

    --

    "Mexicans offer asylum to Syrian refugees, Syrians answer 'not right now, thanks.' 'The plan is to flee from violence,' they say."
    http://eldeforma.com/2015/09/07/mexicanos-ofrecen-asilo-refugiados-sirios-contestan-ahorita-no-gracias/

  54. Libertarians argue that western countries are better at employing people to produce wealth, so people in poorly run countries should move to and work in western countries where they will be more productive.

    Question: wouldn’t it be more efficient if western countries just ran poor countries directly and made everyone there more productive without them having to move?

    Since this would be so beneficial, shouldn’t Pakistan just say “please American, please run our country for us?” Why are there no candidates in any poor countries running on this platform?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Wouldn't it be more 'efficient' if capital moved rather than labor?
    Aren't the 'bigger bangs per buck' in terms of investment opportunities available in the under capitalized nations of the world?
    Isn't this all elementary ABC economics which was proven as axiomatically correct hundreds of years ago?


    Just what the Hell is going on?
  55. What this guy wants is to change the US into a microcosm of the planet. Different races would compete with each other, each forming its own enclave. He talks about the resultant rise of private security companies. These would be just armies in embryo. Isn’t this exactly how the world divided into separate states in the first place?

    All mass immigration would do is reboot history by importing all the different nationalities and replaying their conflicts on American soil.

    • Agree: International Jew
  56. There’s a weird new race consciousness in the air.

    Today, here in the Bay Area, I had a conversation with an old friend (an American-born East Indian Hindu) about German/European immigration policies. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “You people are idiots!”

    He was suddenly talking to me as a white person. I guess Merkel’s making us all look stupid.

  57. @Anon
    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.

    As it is connected to the US, a lot of illegals sneak in without permission.

    But other nations have to wait in line... though, to be sure, plenty of people overstay their visas and remain illegally.
    But from Mexico, it is a flood, especially as Central Americans use Mexico as bridge to make it to America.

    Suppose US were an island nation without Mexico being attached to it. Mexican immigrants would have to apply like all other nations.

    Then, US immigration policy might be something more like Canada and Australia's.
    It might favor the educated and skilled over the less educated and skilled.

    Indeed, from Asia, Africa, and lower parts of Latin America, US generally takes above-average types than the dirt poor folks. But from Mexico and Central America, it takes a lot of below-average types.

    So, from most of the world, US takes in uppers than the lowers. But from Mexico, it takes in more lowers than uppers(who have good lives as yuppies in Mexico City and nice urban areas).

    Europe has the same problem but with different peoples.

    As Europe is closer to Middle East and Africa, a lot of illegal lowers --- those might be called 'childish savages' --- enter from the south through Turkey and Greece as land bridge or through the Mediterranean which can be crossed with rickety boats.

    If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. I don't see dirt poor Mexers getting visas and documentation to fly to Europe. Much easier to cross into the US.
    Likewise, it's so much easier for the lowers of Middle East and Africa to move into Europe by boat or land bridges.

    In contrast, US tends to take in better people from Africa and Middle East(though some of these people may still be below white American standards).

    Anyway, even if US were an island and could be more selective with immigration, too much of this stuff is gonna be bad for US masses and for foreign masses in foreign nations.

    US masses will have to compete with foreign talent. If all the Asians hadn't arrived in the US, a lot of those college slots would have gone to whites(and blacks). And there would be many more good jobs for native-born Americans.

    Also, less developed nations will lose their brains to the US and the West, and how does that serve the foreign nations? It's brain robbery by the West.

    Mexico is a special case. Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses who could come to US and find jobs and send money back home. It hasn't been good for white working class and blacks, but Mexican migration to US hasn't hurt Mexico cuz Mexico could keep the uppers to work on Mexico while sending the lowers to scrounge for jobs in the US.

    But for other nations, emigration of talent to the US has hurt their nations. They have limited number of brains, but so many come to the West.

    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.

    Yes it is. Mexico is a New World nation blessed with many resources, two large coastlines and a nice climate. It is the only nation with free trade access to both the US and EU markets. It should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants to the US, sending almost as many immigrants in 35 years as the next two largest source nations have sent in four hundred years. Large immigration waves from such a nation should not be happening. It speaks volumes to the nation they have created.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    "should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants"

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

    Migration from Europe to Mexico appears strong as well. Mexico receives net migration from east Asia and the Caribbean.

    Frankly, it's apparent that Mexico is now receiving too many immigrants and should be slowing down the flow, especially from the caribbean and Central America. Right now I see a lot of educated Haitian nurses taking jobs that -- supposedly -- Mexicans won't do, like prison and asylum orderly jobs. Raise wages and spend a little more on education and plenty of Mexicans will want those jobs.

    El Salvador and Honduras aren't even sending their best. They're driving crime up just as they arrive to take better paying menial Mexican jobs that lower educated Mexicans need.

  58. @Jefferson
    "Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation,"

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    Among Jewish Millennials, half Jews and quarter Jews outnumber pure Jews.

    Most Jewish Millennials in the U.S do not have 2 Jewish parents. That is why Rabbis in this country are extremely worried.

    Harrison Ford's Millennial kids for example are only 1/8 Jewish. Carrie Fisher's Millennial blonde daughter is only 1/4 Jewish.

    the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    I don’t get this sentiment. Didn’t they recently show through genetic research that Ashkenazis are a result of Jewish men in Rome marrying Gentile women?

    • Replies: @helena
    "Ashkenazis are a result of Jewish men in Rome marrying Gentile women?"

    Indeed, previously known as Italian women.

    I would really like to know more about these women/marriages.

    I'm guessing that since the Ashkenazi moved north, that the group may have been ostracised by both Italian and Jewish communities in Rome.

  59. @Anon
    A nation with a billion people would be a mess for the peons but more power for the elites at the top.

    More consumers, more tax-payers, more cannon fodder, etc.

    If China had 200 million than 1.3 billion, it would be less powerful.

    Suppose if China and India didn't exist.

    Suppose US had the biggest population in the world.

    Maybe US elites wouldn't be so worried about growing the population.

    When China and India were backward and poor, they hardly posed any kind of challenge to the US. If anything, their population seemed like a burden.

    But now that the are rising in the world(despite recent troubles), maybe US elites think US can only be a superpower with MORE people.

    Besides, with the demise of labor union power in the US, the 1% could easily push around the 99%. Like in China.

    Not another one of those”China is going to rule the world” types. If you look at china and its economic history the last 200-300 years nothing has changed . They’ve been a top three power house for a long time.

    • Replies: @Anon
    I don't believe China or India will rule the world.

    But I think the elites want quantity in masses and quality at the top.

    As long as the masses can be controlled, more sheeple means more power at the top.
  60. Priss Factor [AKA "Dominique Francon Society"] says:
    • Replies: @Romanian
    I wonder how long it's going to take for porn versions of the Cologne debacle to appear, involving gangbangs, voyeurism, groping and maybe some scat stuff.
  61. Victor Davis Hanson teaches at the University of Fresno, I believe. Although I dislike his neocon foreign and military policy advocacy, his book Mexifornia gives a heartfelt (he is third generation Californian and operates a farm), and depressing, look at the society that California is becoming.

  62. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Anyone who is still dumb enough to take ‘open borders’ seriously – and, apparently, that includes the entirety of the elite of the political class of the western world, plus their ‘law-givers’ ie the WSJ, the NYT and lastly and leastly The Economist magazine, can do a very very simple thing and cast their eyes at a real-time very limited and small scale experiment in ‘open borders’ currently being conducted by Germany, and by implication the EU, which is Greater Germany.
    Pray, Open Borderists, please take notice of the course of current events in Germany and see where they are heading.
    All your theorizing counts for nought compared to the real actual live ongoing thing.

  63. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @FactsAreImportant
    Libertarians argue that western countries are better at employing people to produce wealth, so people in poorly run countries should move to and work in western countries where they will be more productive.

    Question: wouldn't it be more efficient if western countries just ran poor countries directly and made everyone there more productive without them having to move?

    Since this would be so beneficial, shouldn't Pakistan just say "please American, please run our country for us?" Why are there no candidates in any poor countries running on this platform?

    Wouldn’t it be more ‘efficient’ if capital moved rather than labor?
    Aren’t the ‘bigger bangs per buck’ in terms of investment opportunities available in the under capitalized nations of the world?
    Isn’t this all elementary ABC economics which was proven as axiomatically correct hundreds of years ago?

    Just what the Hell is going on?

    • Replies: @Paul Renault
    That was the idea behind NAFTA. How'd that work out for labor?
  64. @Dumbo
    America is finished, kaput. Its future is a slightly improved Latin America mixed with Hong Kong. I don't even know why so many want to immigrate to that doomed country.

    Maybe Australia and New Zealand can keep the Anglosphere going on. (Canada also isn't going to survive, their multiculturalization is happening even faster than in the US, considering that it was 95% white just 30 years ago and now it's 25% non-white)

    I have more faith that Germany, Italy or even Spain (not France, France is fucked as well) will survive as nations in the 22nd century than the US (at least, a recognizably Anglo US).

    The fact is that this so-called "globalization" or world immigration in such a large scale is in many ways a new phenomenon, thanks in large part to technology, but also to a certain mentality, and if White-Europeans want to survive, they need to adapt.

    Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation, or maybe they need to become nazis and build walls and shoot people, or if not find other ways to isolate themselves from the dark masses, perhaps become like the Amish, I don't really know, but whatever they are doing now, is not working.

    If there is hope, it lies in the east (eastern Europe and Russia).

  65. @Spartan
    It's a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism. The certain results of turning the entire third world loose on the West are very methodically (mis-)forecasted through the lens of an ideology that only appeals, and will only ever appeal, to a small minority of high IQ Western white men. The horde arriving at our doorstep has no concern whatsoever for "deontology" or "utilitarian universalism." I haven't fully read through either piece, but this never seems to enter into his mind.

    People like the author can be productive members of Western society, but when advocating national policy they're basically indistinguishable from lunatics.


    My “billion immigrants” scenario does not involve widespread deprivation of real human goods like food, art, material comforts, family life, freedom of conscience and worship, health, education, truth, adventure, etc. On the contrary, it would seem to involve greater enjoyment of those things by almost everyone[....]
     
    Well, we won't be deprived of adventure. Behold the voice of the Outer Party! I have no doubt the author believes this, just as I have no doubt that the Inner Party knows that it's nonsense and either doesn't care or aims for those deprivations.

    >> It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism.

    Very funny. I gotta remember this one.

  66. ” kind of anarcho-capitalist natural law would prevail, and these might be the most productive, innovative, prosperous places in the new, open-borders America. ”

    Which is why all those cool inventions and discoveries are coming out of favelas.

  67. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Jefferson
    Mainland China has several underpopulated ghost towns with beautiful high rise 1st World looking apartment buildings. But most of the locals can not afford to purchase or rent an apartment in these areas.

    This is how you know Mainland China is still not a fully developed 1st World Country. The per capita purchasing power of the average Mainland Chinese household is still far below that of White Western nation households.

    I doubt Mainland China will ever become a 1st World Country. Too much government corruption combined with the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ being quite low.

    The only reason it seems like the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is so high to us Americans is because we get their cream of the crop minority elite. But average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is closer to that of Filipinos than it is to Ashkenazis, Italians and Anglo Saxon Protestants for example.

    Poverty in Mainland China makes Appalachian poverty look middle class in comparison.

    I absolutely disagree with everything you say.

    Firstly, it is pretty much inevitable that per capita Chinese income will exceed per capita American income within the next 30 years.
    People like you used to sneer at ‘coolies’ in Singapore or Hong Kong, the ‘honey wagons’ etc. Now Singapore per capita income massively exceeds American income.

    All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    "All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ."

    Citation please.
    , @Travis
    The U.S. will still have more than double China’s per capita income by 2061 even as Chinese income levels are have rapid growth.

    the Federal Reserve Bank found China’s income per person will grow by two to three times the U.S. pace over the next half century. But that pace will still leave income levels in China at half those of the U.S., underscoring the gap between the world’s two biggest economies.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-16/u-s-will-still-have-double-china-s-per-capita-income-by-2061
    , @anon

    People like you used to sneer at ‘coolies’ ...
     
    Most of the old quotes I've seen were white people saying orientals should be kept out because they were smart and hard working i.e. potential competition.

    However although I don't think anyone sensible doubts the high IQ of coastal Chinese I'm not convinced it extends all the way inland - still above world average but not necessarily above that.

    However that might still be enough to outpace US per capita GDP imo but the next question is prosperity IQ alone or IQ/corruption? If so it will be interesting to compare Singapore with Shanghai, Hong Kong, Macau over time - similar average IQ but with possibly different levels of corruption.

    Although even then, as US corruption increases that advantage will seep away.

    So on balance I would expect China's per capita income to pip the US, alone if they minimize corruption but otherwise partly due to America's average IQ going down and corruption index going up.
    , @EriK
    I thought China was going to get old before it gets rich.
  68. Apparently now the German government, that is the EU high command, are now proposing that EU taxpayers pay an extra tax to support the mass influx of migrants.

    Surely, I heard, only a few weeks ago, that the ‘migrants’ were the greatest fiscal and economic boost ever.

  69. @Anon
    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.

    As it is connected to the US, a lot of illegals sneak in without permission.

    But other nations have to wait in line... though, to be sure, plenty of people overstay their visas and remain illegally.
    But from Mexico, it is a flood, especially as Central Americans use Mexico as bridge to make it to America.

    Suppose US were an island nation without Mexico being attached to it. Mexican immigrants would have to apply like all other nations.

    Then, US immigration policy might be something more like Canada and Australia's.
    It might favor the educated and skilled over the less educated and skilled.

    Indeed, from Asia, Africa, and lower parts of Latin America, US generally takes above-average types than the dirt poor folks. But from Mexico and Central America, it takes a lot of below-average types.

    So, from most of the world, US takes in uppers than the lowers. But from Mexico, it takes in more lowers than uppers(who have good lives as yuppies in Mexico City and nice urban areas).

    Europe has the same problem but with different peoples.

    As Europe is closer to Middle East and Africa, a lot of illegal lowers --- those might be called 'childish savages' --- enter from the south through Turkey and Greece as land bridge or through the Mediterranean which can be crossed with rickety boats.

    If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. I don't see dirt poor Mexers getting visas and documentation to fly to Europe. Much easier to cross into the US.
    Likewise, it's so much easier for the lowers of Middle East and Africa to move into Europe by boat or land bridges.

    In contrast, US tends to take in better people from Africa and Middle East(though some of these people may still be below white American standards).

    Anyway, even if US were an island and could be more selective with immigration, too much of this stuff is gonna be bad for US masses and for foreign masses in foreign nations.

    US masses will have to compete with foreign talent. If all the Asians hadn't arrived in the US, a lot of those college slots would have gone to whites(and blacks). And there would be many more good jobs for native-born Americans.

    Also, less developed nations will lose their brains to the US and the West, and how does that serve the foreign nations? It's brain robbery by the West.

    Mexico is a special case. Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses who could come to US and find jobs and send money back home. It hasn't been good for white working class and blacks, but Mexican migration to US hasn't hurt Mexico cuz Mexico could keep the uppers to work on Mexico while sending the lowers to scrounge for jobs in the US.

    But for other nations, emigration of talent to the US has hurt their nations. They have limited number of brains, but so many come to the West.

    “If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. ”

    Mexicans don’t require a visa to visit Europe. You just buy a ticket and fly across the Atlantic direct from Mexico City whenever you like. Still Europe doesn’t have any kind of Mexican immigration problems. Mexicans that go to Europe are mostly yuppie tourists.

    “Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses”

    No. It divides families and destroys towns and neighborhoods.Have you met Mexican men living ten to an apartment to work at hard labor below minimum wage 11 hours a day to save cash to send home? Missing fingers when they return because they didn’t have documentation, workman’s comp, safe conditions, or health care? Separated from their wives and children?

    The children at home growing up without fathers aren’t happy either. Little boys love a truck but they’d much rather have dad than a shiny new F-150.

    • Replies: @Formerly CARealist
    Spare me. Mexican laborers in California are no worse off than their white counterparts. The only people, of any race, who work without protections are the ones working for family. My observation is that most of the "worker-abuse" is Uncle Hector screaming at his worthless nephew who shows up after lunch half in the bag and hits his hand with a hammer. This actually happened at a friend's house where construction work was being done. Plus, the worker's comp scamming and insurance fraud is INSANE. I have a relative who was frauded, and yes, an illegal was involved. And also yes, my relative was a cheap idiot for letting such people work on his roof.
    , @Beach

    Mass migration to America...divides families and destroys towns and neighborhoods.Have you met Mexican men living ten to an apartment to work at hard labor below minimum wage 11 hours a day to save cash to send home? Missing fingers when they return because they didn’t have documentation, workman’s comp, safe conditions, or health care? Separated from their wives and children?

    The children at home growing up without fathers aren’t happy either. Little boys love a truck but they’d much rather have dad than a shiny new F-150.
     
    All of which can be avoided by simply staying in Mexico. As you yourself say, children would rather have their fathers than material possessions.
  70. @Jefferson
    "As we’ve gone from a nationalist to an internationalist world, we’ve stopped looking for national solutions to national problems and turned them into global problems requiring global solutions (everyone loves talking global). Now every country’s problems – be they economic, demographic, ethnic, environmental or law and order issues are somebody else’s problem."

    The only BRIC nation that is taking in Syrian Muslim refugees is Brazil. India, Russia, and China are certainly not doing their part.

    Yet Left Wing economists say that Westerners should all look up to the BRIC nations as examples of excellence.

    “The only BRIC nation that is taking in Syrian Muslim refugees is Brazil. India, Russia, and China are certainly not doing their part.”

    “Mexicans offer asylum to Syrian refugees, Syrians answer ‘not right now, thanks.’ ‘The plan is to flee from violence,’ they say.”
    http://eldeforma.com/2015/09/07/mexicanos-ofrecen-asilo-refugiados-sirios-contestan-ahorita-no-gracias/

  71. @iSteveFan

    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.
     
    Yes it is. Mexico is a New World nation blessed with many resources, two large coastlines and a nice climate. It is the only nation with free trade access to both the US and EU markets. It should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants to the US, sending almost as many immigrants in 35 years as the next two largest source nations have sent in four hundred years. Large immigration waves from such a nation should not be happening. It speaks volumes to the nation they have created.

    “should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants”

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

    Migration from Europe to Mexico appears strong as well. Mexico receives net migration from east Asia and the Caribbean.

    Frankly, it’s apparent that Mexico is now receiving too many immigrants and should be slowing down the flow, especially from the caribbean and Central America. Right now I see a lot of educated Haitian nurses taking jobs that — supposedly — Mexicans won’t do, like prison and asylum orderly jobs. Raise wages and spend a little more on education and plenty of Mexicans will want those jobs.

    El Salvador and Honduras aren’t even sending their best. They’re driving crime up just as they arrive to take better paying menial Mexican jobs that lower educated Mexicans need.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.
     
    Really? So the immigration problem with Mexico is over? First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980, which is almost as many as the 13 million German and Italians combined that have arrived since 1607. So the damage as they say has already been done. Mexico has established itself into our society. And as I stated previously, for a New World nation of such size, this is truly an indication of an epic failure on their part.

    Second, this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine that any trend of 8 years is an indication that all is well? Do you honestly believe Mexico is now good to go? Do you honestly believe they are forever safe from the next economic crisis or bout of political instability that won't spark another wave of migration?

    Third, as a New World behemoth has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans that have departed northward, but I'd be afraid they too would just leave Mexico and become our problem.

    Finally, I don't put too much stock into that figure that has been bandied about that Mexican migration since the convenient start time of 2008 is zero. I take it with a grain of salt along with such statements that 'obama is the deporter in chief', and that the US has 12-20 million illegals.
    , @International Jew
    I don't trust that Pew Study. See comment 109 for details.
  72. @Jefferson
    Mainland China has several underpopulated ghost towns with beautiful high rise 1st World looking apartment buildings. But most of the locals can not afford to purchase or rent an apartment in these areas.

    This is how you know Mainland China is still not a fully developed 1st World Country. The per capita purchasing power of the average Mainland Chinese household is still far below that of White Western nation households.

    I doubt Mainland China will ever become a 1st World Country. Too much government corruption combined with the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ being quite low.

    The only reason it seems like the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is so high to us Americans is because we get their cream of the crop minority elite. But average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is closer to that of Filipinos than it is to Ashkenazis, Italians and Anglo Saxon Protestants for example.

    Poverty in Mainland China makes Appalachian poverty look middle class in comparison.

    I doubt Mainland China will ever become a 1st World Country. Too much government corruption combined with the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ being quite low.

    The only reason it seems like the average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is so high to us Americans is because we get their cream of the crop minority elite. But average Mainland Han Chinese IQ is closer to that of Filipinos than it is to Ashkenazis, Italians and Anglo Saxon Protestants for example.

    Studies have repeatedly shown the average IQ of mainland Han Chinese to be around 105, which is slightly lower than Chinese-Americans but higher than any white gentile group. The Chinese are the Jews of Asia, dominating the elite in every country where they are found in significant numbers. Outside the People’s Republic, the places where Han Chinese form a majority (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore) are wealthy, first-world countries.

    Poverty in China has nothing to do with IQ and everything to do with communism. And before communism, the Japanese, and before the Japanese, centuries of emperors who cut off all contact with the “barbarian” outside world.

  73. @Dumbo
    America is finished, kaput. Its future is a slightly improved Latin America mixed with Hong Kong. I don't even know why so many want to immigrate to that doomed country.

    Maybe Australia and New Zealand can keep the Anglosphere going on. (Canada also isn't going to survive, their multiculturalization is happening even faster than in the US, considering that it was 95% white just 30 years ago and now it's 25% non-white)

    I have more faith that Germany, Italy or even Spain (not France, France is fucked as well) will survive as nations in the 22nd century than the US (at least, a recognizably Anglo US).

    The fact is that this so-called "globalization" or world immigration in such a large scale is in many ways a new phenomenon, thanks in large part to technology, but also to a certain mentality, and if White-Europeans want to survive, they need to adapt.

    Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation, or maybe they need to become nazis and build walls and shoot people, or if not find other ways to isolate themselves from the dark masses, perhaps become like the Amish, I don't really know, but whatever they are doing now, is not working.

    Canada’s demographics are changing, but it’s largely an issue in the major cities. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc have extremely diverse populations, but in the rural areas in every province it’s still odd to see a non-white person.

    Personally, I don’t think that this open borders gimmick is going to continue unabated. There is a lot of anti-immigration sentiment simmering in the background, and the inevitable clashes between populations are on the rise (as anyone could predict). I believe that the Western World is heading toward a backlash, and the harder and faster mass immigration is pressed on us, the worse it’s going to be. I truly hope something changes before we get to that point.

    • Replies: @Perspective
    You're right outside the major metro areas there isn't much diversity. Though in the last 10 years it has spread to other cities such as Winnipeg, Edmonton and Calgary with a vengeance. I think Quebec City (I can't think of any other) is the last remaining metro area in North America with a population over half a million to still be over 90 percent white.
  74. @Steve Sailer
    "There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies …"

    Neal Stephenson's sci-fi novel "Snow Crash" is an interesting thing because different people describe its picture of a privatized future America run by corporations and ethnic groups as either "dystopian" or "utopian."

    Is this a function of age?

    When I read “Snow Crash” in high-school it seemed cool. Cyberpunkish, anti-heroes (Raven!, glass knives!), grrl-power!, faithful robotic dogs! Katana wielding pizza deliverer! And of course old fashioned government that was at once bad, corrupted, inefficient and powerful. Free market heroes were efficient and reasonable.

    Now I am older and social dynamic of the Raft is much more fascinating. I probably will not wield katana in my life but I may get visited by people from the Raft.

  75. @Anon
    Mexico is something of an exception in American immigration.

    As it is connected to the US, a lot of illegals sneak in without permission.

    But other nations have to wait in line... though, to be sure, plenty of people overstay their visas and remain illegally.
    But from Mexico, it is a flood, especially as Central Americans use Mexico as bridge to make it to America.

    Suppose US were an island nation without Mexico being attached to it. Mexican immigrants would have to apply like all other nations.

    Then, US immigration policy might be something more like Canada and Australia's.
    It might favor the educated and skilled over the less educated and skilled.

    Indeed, from Asia, Africa, and lower parts of Latin America, US generally takes above-average types than the dirt poor folks. But from Mexico and Central America, it takes a lot of below-average types.

    So, from most of the world, US takes in uppers than the lowers. But from Mexico, it takes in more lowers than uppers(who have good lives as yuppies in Mexico City and nice urban areas).

    Europe has the same problem but with different peoples.

    As Europe is closer to Middle East and Africa, a lot of illegal lowers --- those might be called 'childish savages' --- enter from the south through Turkey and Greece as land bridge or through the Mediterranean which can be crossed with rickety boats.

    If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. I don't see dirt poor Mexers getting visas and documentation to fly to Europe. Much easier to cross into the US.
    Likewise, it's so much easier for the lowers of Middle East and Africa to move into Europe by boat or land bridges.

    In contrast, US tends to take in better people from Africa and Middle East(though some of these people may still be below white American standards).

    Anyway, even if US were an island and could be more selective with immigration, too much of this stuff is gonna be bad for US masses and for foreign masses in foreign nations.

    US masses will have to compete with foreign talent. If all the Asians hadn't arrived in the US, a lot of those college slots would have gone to whites(and blacks). And there would be many more good jobs for native-born Americans.

    Also, less developed nations will lose their brains to the US and the West, and how does that serve the foreign nations? It's brain robbery by the West.

    Mexico is a special case. Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses who could come to US and find jobs and send money back home. It hasn't been good for white working class and blacks, but Mexican migration to US hasn't hurt Mexico cuz Mexico could keep the uppers to work on Mexico while sending the lowers to scrounge for jobs in the US.

    But for other nations, emigration of talent to the US has hurt their nations. They have limited number of brains, but so many come to the West.

    Europe has no shortage of Equadorans, Colombians and Brazilians. No Mexicans though.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They seem to enter Europe by conning their way into either Portugal or Spain - due to some sort of reciprocal 'ancestral' laws and once in Iberia, get passports that 'entitle' them to live all over the EU.
  76. @Steve Sailer
    "There would probably be an increasing role for private security companies …"

    Neal Stephenson's sci-fi novel "Snow Crash" is an interesting thing because different people describe its picture of a privatized future America run by corporations and ethnic groups as either "dystopian" or "utopian."

    Who describes Snow Crash as utopian? It was written solidly during the cyberpunk era when people were looking ahead to a dark future, and the hero-protagonist, Hiro Protagonist, lives in a storage compartment.

  77. I once ate lunch at a Burger King in Salinas, almost ten years ago.

    The vinyl cushions in all of the seats were green, red and white (like Mexico’s flag) and mariachi music was playing over the loudspeaker.

    Good times.

  78. @Anonymous
    George Mason U. is also the home base of Tyler the Taxeater Cowen, the libertarian economist.

    I wonder why libertarian economists seek tenured positions. Shouldn’t they be selling their ideas in the free market?

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "I wonder why libertarian economists seek tenured positions. Shouldn’t they be selling their ideas in the free market?"

    Indeed. The obvious answer is that they are hypocrites and frauds.
  79. @Jefferson
    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese. There would definitely be way less incidents of them catching fire.

    But since it is a lot cheaper for companies to pay Chinese people instead of Whites to built these things, hoverboards will never be made in White countries.

    Since China has a larger labor workforce due to their 1 billion plus population, they can make more hoverboards in mass bulk.

    The Chinese are all about creating quantity, not quality.

    Nothing’s stopping a ‘white’ manufacturer from making them.

    • Replies: @anon

    Nothing’s stopping a ‘white’ manufacturer from making them.
     
    Sure there is, Wall St's version of "free trade" agreements.
  80. @BB753
    Europe has no shortage of Equadorans, Colombians and Brazilians. No Mexicans though.

    They seem to enter Europe by conning their way into either Portugal or Spain – due to some sort of reciprocal ‘ancestral’ laws and once in Iberia, get passports that ‘entitle’ them to live all over the EU.

  81. @Jefferson
    "Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation,"

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    Among Jewish Millennials, half Jews and quarter Jews outnumber pure Jews.

    Most Jewish Millennials in the U.S do not have 2 Jewish parents. That is why Rabbis in this country are extremely worried.

    Harrison Ford's Millennial kids for example are only 1/8 Jewish. Carrie Fisher's Millennial blonde daughter is only 1/4 Jewish.

    One-way gene flow. Jewish guys get shiksas. Jewish women get Jewish guys.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Carrie Fisher is a counter-example - she is more Jewish than her husband, resulting in a daughter whose Jewish ancestry is more dilute than hers. There are a fair number of non-Orthodox Jewish women who marry non-Jews these days. From my Reform Jewish religious school class in a mid-size non-coastal city, I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head, and I don't even keep in touch with any of them formally. This religious school class was not very large.
    , @Bob Arctor

    One-way gene flow. Jewish guys get shiksas. Jewish women get Jewish guys.
     
    That was true in the past, but the intermarriage rate for Jewish men and Jewish women has been at parity since at least 1980.
  82. @Anon
    That people have to ASK such questions goes to show how messed up the West is.

    I mean any person with sense knows without asking.

    There really should be a word for the propensity of academics to seek to give a veneer of scholarship to conclusions which are simply the opposite of good sense and reason. Of course anyone who isn’t an artificial intelligence prototype knows that the economic benefits of a Billion more (foreign born) people eating and shitting in the United States would be outweighed by the disastrous externalities. But it takes an academic to elide all of those obvious negative impacts, dress things up with jargonese, and produce a work of un-reason which is then used as a justification by policy.

    • Replies: @FactsAreImportant
    In academic publishing, there is a strong bias towards "surprising," i.e., unexpected or counter-intuitive results. Otherwise, a paper is just "what we knew already."
  83. Can we please start a gofundme project to provide free bus service for border illegals direct to Greenwich, Connecticut. Please.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    Malibu, Beverly Hills, and San Francisco are closer than Greenwich, but I'm in for $5.
  84. @Kyle a
    Not another one of those"China is going to rule the world" types. If you look at china and its economic history the last 200-300 years nothing has changed . They've been a top three power house for a long time.

    I don’t believe China or India will rule the world.

    But I think the elites want quantity in masses and quality at the top.

    As long as the masses can be controlled, more sheeple means more power at the top.

  85. Problem of birth dearth and diversity.

  86. @Maj. Kong
    India has nuclear weapons, several billionaires, and the single most expensive residence in the world. All that on a third of America's land area, and three times our population.

    The elite are thinking about having something like 2.5 billion people here.

    India does not have a couple hundred million firearms in private possession.

  87. @Anonymous
    Wouldn't it be more 'efficient' if capital moved rather than labor?
    Aren't the 'bigger bangs per buck' in terms of investment opportunities available in the under capitalized nations of the world?
    Isn't this all elementary ABC economics which was proven as axiomatically correct hundreds of years ago?


    Just what the Hell is going on?

    That was the idea behind NAFTA. How’d that work out for labor?

  88. @Anonymous
    George Mason U. is also the home base of Tyler the Taxeater Cowen, the libertarian economist.

    George Mason U. is also the home base of Bryan “It’s open borders that makes the eventual abolition of the welfare state imaginable” Caplan, another libertarian economist.

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/09/the_political_e_6.html

    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/09/ethnic_diversit.html

  89. @(((Owen)))
    "should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants"

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

    Migration from Europe to Mexico appears strong as well. Mexico receives net migration from east Asia and the Caribbean.

    Frankly, it's apparent that Mexico is now receiving too many immigrants and should be slowing down the flow, especially from the caribbean and Central America. Right now I see a lot of educated Haitian nurses taking jobs that -- supposedly -- Mexicans won't do, like prison and asylum orderly jobs. Raise wages and spend a little more on education and plenty of Mexicans will want those jobs.

    El Salvador and Honduras aren't even sending their best. They're driving crime up just as they arrive to take better paying menial Mexican jobs that lower educated Mexicans need.

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.

    Really? So the immigration problem with Mexico is over? First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980, which is almost as many as the 13 million German and Italians combined that have arrived since 1607. So the damage as they say has already been done. Mexico has established itself into our society. And as I stated previously, for a New World nation of such size, this is truly an indication of an epic failure on their part.

    Second, this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine that any trend of 8 years is an indication that all is well? Do you honestly believe Mexico is now good to go? Do you honestly believe they are forever safe from the next economic crisis or bout of political instability that won’t spark another wave of migration?

    Third, as a New World behemoth has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans that have departed northward, but I’d be afraid they too would just leave Mexico and become our problem.

    Finally, I don’t put too much stock into that figure that has been bandied about that Mexican migration since the convenient start time of 2008 is zero. I take it with a grain of salt along with such statements that ‘obama is the deporter in chief’, and that the US has 12-20 million illegals.

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    "So the immigration problem with Mexico is over?"

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA. It's impossible to keep migrants out when the leaders of the economy want them in and the government won't deny them. Without a mandatory, reasonably secure document verification system somebody is going to come.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Today it's millions of illegal Chinese, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. It could easily be Indians, Africans, or Bolivians tomorrow. But the problem isn't the source, it's the attractive welcome from zero internal enforcement.

    Many new illegals are using Mexico as a bridge and crossing without stopping. Mexico is rich enough to stop sending migrants but not organized enough to stop them from crossing Mexico on the way to America when Americans want them.

    --

    "First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980,"

    If the USA wants, it's easy to send the illegals back along with their spouses and children. Even US citizen spouses and children that have been naturalized will move away if you send one spouse home with a long term prohibition on entry as a penalty for coming illegally. The USA could easily remove 10 million Mexicans if it wanted to. (There are about 5-6 million illegal Mexicans in the USA now and falling.)

    " this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine"

    I'm not. Things are good and I'd like to see them much better. It's always possible they'll get worse, but the long term trend has been good for decades. You never know what might happen if some new awful Anglo intellectual movement arrives again to destroy Latin America the way Marxism did a century ago.

    "any trend of 8 years"

    Mexico has been on a steep upswing since 1985. It just took until 2008 to get strong enough to match the attraction of migration to Gringo jobs.

    "has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans"

    If you love America, you'll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    Both countries should wish each other well. Nobody should want a Somalia or a Germany on his borders.

    , @International Jew
    Have a look at that "Pew Hispanic" paper he relies on. Its numbers come from voluntary compliance with US and Mexican government surveys. I'll venture that the response rate from illegal immigrants is not so high. That introduces a bias, as there are about zero illegal American immigrants in Mexico!

    And never mind that both governments that collected that data have an interest in getting us to ignore the problem.

    Unfortunately, bogus "studies" like this have a way of becoming the conventional wisdom.
  90. @Anonymous
    I absolutely disagree with everything you say.

    Firstly, it is pretty much inevitable that per capita Chinese income will exceed per capita American income within the next 30 years.
    People like you used to sneer at 'coolies' in Singapore or Hong Kong, the 'honey wagons' etc. Now Singapore per capita income massively exceeds American income.

    All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.

    “All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.”

    Citation please.

  91. It’s really hard to take these articles seriously.

    My sister and I sometimes have this conversation, that the US has 5% of the world’s population and 85% of the weath, or that the US and Europe have 10% of the world’s population and 95% of the wealth, and so on. Those are ballpark numbers but they represent a larger truth. We are, relative to most of the world, well off. It follows that if we import more people, to, in effect, balance the equation, our share of the wealth will decrease.

    And that’s why this is nonsense. Americans are not a particularly ideological people, but everyone knows the price of gas, or milk, eggs, and meat, and no one likes the fact that their earning power is decreasing or stagnant. The more people we bring here, the more people we have here, the more the quality of life must necessarily decline. Americans won’t stand for that. That is why Trump has a lot of grass roots support.

    It’s also interesting that anyone advocating this kind of population growth is contradicting any concerns about the effects of such growth, via AGW or pollution or what have you.

    Pro Chinese tub thumping is no better or worse than any other kind of ethnic cheerleading but the Chinese will never be that successful so long as they depend on a writing system that is clunky and difficult to learn, and which by its very nature is elitist, in the sense that most average or below average people could never master it.

    My grandfather, decades told me to study Spanish, so I did, even though my language preferences were more to the Center and East of Europe. But the fact is, Spanish speakers in the Americas have children, English speakers do not. Anglos are on the way out, that was our choice.

    • Replies: @oh its just me

    It follows that if we import more people, to, in effect, balance the equation, our share of the wealth will decrease.
     
    Yep, and that's what our elite want- and that's how they justify their pathological policies toward native born Americans and Europeans-
    In one of the most under-reported interviews in that last decade- someone (forgot who) was interviewing greenspan about his legacy and remarked that his policies may have made middle class Americans poorer- yes he said, with satisfaction, 'but we've help make the world more equal'

    in an unusual move for the Atlantic, some years ago they published a negative critique of the new global elite- saying that they were justifying some nasty, self serving policies (like outsourcing and offshoring) by saying they were making the world more equal-- and some, Orwell might add, more equal than others....
    , @(((Owen)))
    "Spanish speakers in the Americas have children, English speakers do not."

    English speakers have about 1.8 children per woman, Spanish speakers about 2.0 per woman, and Maya speakers about 3 and Quechua speakers about 3.5. The level that keeps population steady in the long run is about 2.1.

    The population explosion in Guatemala and Bolivia is an incredible ecological and quality of life disaster. But Spanish speakers aren't driving it.

  92. @(((Owen)))
    "If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. "

    Mexicans don't require a visa to visit Europe. You just buy a ticket and fly across the Atlantic direct from Mexico City whenever you like. Still Europe doesn't have any kind of Mexican immigration problems. Mexicans that go to Europe are mostly yuppie tourists.

    "Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses"

    No. It divides families and destroys towns and neighborhoods.Have you met Mexican men living ten to an apartment to work at hard labor below minimum wage 11 hours a day to save cash to send home? Missing fingers when they return because they didn't have documentation, workman's comp, safe conditions, or health care? Separated from their wives and children?

    The children at home growing up without fathers aren't happy either. Little boys love a truck but they'd much rather have dad than a shiny new F-150.

    Spare me. Mexican laborers in California are no worse off than their white counterparts. The only people, of any race, who work without protections are the ones working for family. My observation is that most of the “worker-abuse” is Uncle Hector screaming at his worthless nephew who shows up after lunch half in the bag and hits his hand with a hammer. This actually happened at a friend’s house where construction work was being done. Plus, the worker’s comp scamming and insurance fraud is INSANE. I have a relative who was frauded, and yes, an illegal was involved. And also yes, my relative was a cheap idiot for letting such people work on his roof.

  93. @rod1963
    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.

    Not that you'd ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.

    The reason why the wealthy support open borders is because it destroys the value of labor and human right and makes them wealthier in the process.

    And that's what matters. In fact it's the defining factor in this years presidential race. Where we have a bunch of open borders globalists vs. the solitary nationalist who wants to build a wall and impose tariffs.

    “Not that you’d ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more than court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.”

    That’s a useful way of looking at them – a good meme to spread.

  94. @berserker
    I wonder why libertarian economists seek tenured positions. Shouldn't they be selling their ideas in the free market?

    “I wonder why libertarian economists seek tenured positions. Shouldn’t they be selling their ideas in the free market?”

    Indeed. The obvious answer is that they are hypocrites and frauds.

  95. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Not just Fresno, but towns in New Hampshire are benefiting from illegal immigrants.

    Police in Hudson and Pelham alerted citizens last week that skimming devices had been found on gas pumps at different stations. The devices appear like legitimate card scanners, but have actually been rigged to the machine in an attempt to gain the account information as the customer slides the card and uses the personal-identification number to complete the transaction.

    Dairon Julio Jimenez Roja, 25; Francisco Tamayo Noguera, 35; and Elvis Barban Chavez, 44, also known as Elvis Barban, were first arrested.

    http://www.unionleader.com/article/20160117/NEWS03/160119206/0/FRONTPAGE

  96. @Maj. Kong
    The Kochs are big donors to GMU, so they can stack the economics department with their friends.

    Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.

    “Pay no attention to the fact that the Rockefeller and Ford foundations did this on a much larger scale, with even worse results.”

    They’ve been at it longer. I’m sure that Koch-money, along with Soros-money, will be screwing stuff up for a long time to come.

  97. I don’t why Smith (in the linked article) believes the following is a serious argument: “By ‘must’ I mean something close to an absolute prohibition: I would tend to say that one mustn’t torture an innocent child even to save a great city from a terrorist attack. . . . Now, migration restrictions involve doing terrible things to people. US immigration enforcement separates thousands of parents from their children by force ever [sic] year. European coast guards are culpable for a mounting toll of migrant deaths at sea, and so on. These things simply must stop.”

    Normally, the parents and their kids can stay together in the parents’ home country, right? I get that immigrant-rights advocates find that kind of dumb rhetoric useful in talking with low-IQ journos. But as an academic writing an allegedly intellectual article, why does Smith think anyone would be swayed by this argument (other than readers who are already committed open-borders fanatics anyway)?

    Also, since it’s pretty obvious that open borders would lead to more violent crime — I don’t remember whether Smith concedes this, but he might as well — don’t you have to weigh kids being separated from their parents through the murder of their parents (San Bernardino, Boston, Paris, etc.?) By Smith’s lights, why isn’t this something that “simply must stop”?

  98. ‘”An Economist in Fresno Rethinks Open Borders.”

    “Rethinks”. I would say he just started thinking, opposed to reacting, about Open Borders.

  99. @SPMoore8
    It's really hard to take these articles seriously.

    My sister and I sometimes have this conversation, that the US has 5% of the world's population and 85% of the weath, or that the US and Europe have 10% of the world's population and 95% of the wealth, and so on. Those are ballpark numbers but they represent a larger truth. We are, relative to most of the world, well off. It follows that if we import more people, to, in effect, balance the equation, our share of the wealth will decrease.

    And that's why this is nonsense. Americans are not a particularly ideological people, but everyone knows the price of gas, or milk, eggs, and meat, and no one likes the fact that their earning power is decreasing or stagnant. The more people we bring here, the more people we have here, the more the quality of life must necessarily decline. Americans won't stand for that. That is why Trump has a lot of grass roots support.

    It's also interesting that anyone advocating this kind of population growth is contradicting any concerns about the effects of such growth, via AGW or pollution or what have you.

    Pro Chinese tub thumping is no better or worse than any other kind of ethnic cheerleading but the Chinese will never be that successful so long as they depend on a writing system that is clunky and difficult to learn, and which by its very nature is elitist, in the sense that most average or below average people could never master it.

    My grandfather, decades told me to study Spanish, so I did, even though my language preferences were more to the Center and East of Europe. But the fact is, Spanish speakers in the Americas have children, English speakers do not. Anglos are on the way out, that was our choice.

    It follows that if we import more people, to, in effect, balance the equation, our share of the wealth will decrease.

    Yep, and that’s what our elite want- and that’s how they justify their pathological policies toward native born Americans and Europeans-
    In one of the most under-reported interviews in that last decade- someone (forgot who) was interviewing greenspan about his legacy and remarked that his policies may have made middle class Americans poorer- yes he said, with satisfaction, ‘but we’ve help make the world more equal’

    in an unusual move for the Atlantic, some years ago they published a negative critique of the new global elite- saying that they were justifying some nasty, self serving policies (like outsourcing and offshoring) by saying they were making the world more equal– and some, Orwell might add, more equal than others….

  100. @Clyde
    What I want to know is what's up with all these "conversations" and "journeys" we are subjected to these days? No problem if women want to use the language of the psychiatrist's couch, but men..?..?..
    Anyways, I'm blaming fluorides and BPA plastics in the water.

    Thank you for sharing your concerns with us.

  101. @SPMoore8
    It's really hard to take these articles seriously.

    My sister and I sometimes have this conversation, that the US has 5% of the world's population and 85% of the weath, or that the US and Europe have 10% of the world's population and 95% of the wealth, and so on. Those are ballpark numbers but they represent a larger truth. We are, relative to most of the world, well off. It follows that if we import more people, to, in effect, balance the equation, our share of the wealth will decrease.

    And that's why this is nonsense. Americans are not a particularly ideological people, but everyone knows the price of gas, or milk, eggs, and meat, and no one likes the fact that their earning power is decreasing or stagnant. The more people we bring here, the more people we have here, the more the quality of life must necessarily decline. Americans won't stand for that. That is why Trump has a lot of grass roots support.

    It's also interesting that anyone advocating this kind of population growth is contradicting any concerns about the effects of such growth, via AGW or pollution or what have you.

    Pro Chinese tub thumping is no better or worse than any other kind of ethnic cheerleading but the Chinese will never be that successful so long as they depend on a writing system that is clunky and difficult to learn, and which by its very nature is elitist, in the sense that most average or below average people could never master it.

    My grandfather, decades told me to study Spanish, so I did, even though my language preferences were more to the Center and East of Europe. But the fact is, Spanish speakers in the Americas have children, English speakers do not. Anglos are on the way out, that was our choice.

    “Spanish speakers in the Americas have children, English speakers do not.”

    English speakers have about 1.8 children per woman, Spanish speakers about 2.0 per woman, and Maya speakers about 3 and Quechua speakers about 3.5. The level that keeps population steady in the long run is about 2.1.

    The population explosion in Guatemala and Bolivia is an incredible ecological and quality of life disaster. But Spanish speakers aren’t driving it.

  102. @Bayonet
    Canada's demographics are changing, but it's largely an issue in the major cities. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc have extremely diverse populations, but in the rural areas in every province it's still odd to see a non-white person.


    Personally, I don't think that this open borders gimmick is going to continue unabated. There is a lot of anti-immigration sentiment simmering in the background, and the inevitable clashes between populations are on the rise (as anyone could predict). I believe that the Western World is heading toward a backlash, and the harder and faster mass immigration is pressed on us, the worse it's going to be. I truly hope something changes before we get to that point.

    You’re right outside the major metro areas there isn’t much diversity. Though in the last 10 years it has spread to other cities such as Winnipeg, Edmonton and Calgary with a vengeance. I think Quebec City (I can’t think of any other) is the last remaining metro area in North America with a population over half a million to still be over 90 percent white.

  103. @iSteveFan

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.
     
    Really? So the immigration problem with Mexico is over? First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980, which is almost as many as the 13 million German and Italians combined that have arrived since 1607. So the damage as they say has already been done. Mexico has established itself into our society. And as I stated previously, for a New World nation of such size, this is truly an indication of an epic failure on their part.

    Second, this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine that any trend of 8 years is an indication that all is well? Do you honestly believe Mexico is now good to go? Do you honestly believe they are forever safe from the next economic crisis or bout of political instability that won't spark another wave of migration?

    Third, as a New World behemoth has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans that have departed northward, but I'd be afraid they too would just leave Mexico and become our problem.

    Finally, I don't put too much stock into that figure that has been bandied about that Mexican migration since the convenient start time of 2008 is zero. I take it with a grain of salt along with such statements that 'obama is the deporter in chief', and that the US has 12-20 million illegals.

    “So the immigration problem with Mexico is over?”

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA. It’s impossible to keep migrants out when the leaders of the economy want them in and the government won’t deny them. Without a mandatory, reasonably secure document verification system somebody is going to come.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Today it’s millions of illegal Chinese, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. It could easily be Indians, Africans, or Bolivians tomorrow. But the problem isn’t the source, it’s the attractive welcome from zero internal enforcement.

    Many new illegals are using Mexico as a bridge and crossing without stopping. Mexico is rich enough to stop sending migrants but not organized enough to stop them from crossing Mexico on the way to America when Americans want them.

    “First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980,”

    If the USA wants, it’s easy to send the illegals back along with their spouses and children. Even US citizen spouses and children that have been naturalized will move away if you send one spouse home with a long term prohibition on entry as a penalty for coming illegally. The USA could easily remove 10 million Mexicans if it wanted to. (There are about 5-6 million illegal Mexicans in the USA now and falling.)

    ” this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine”

    I’m not. Things are good and I’d like to see them much better. It’s always possible they’ll get worse, but the long term trend has been good for decades. You never know what might happen if some new awful Anglo intellectual movement arrives again to destroy Latin America the way Marxism did a century ago.

    “any trend of 8 years”

    Mexico has been on a steep upswing since 1985. It just took until 2008 to get strong enough to match the attraction of migration to Gringo jobs.

    “has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans”

    If you love America, you’ll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    Both countries should wish each other well. Nobody should want a Somalia or a Germany on his borders.

    • Replies: @Rob McX

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.
     
    Agreed. I distrust people who talk of a wall that would take years and cost billions to build, while they ignore far cheaper and quicker ways to stop and reverse immigration. A verification system for potential employees is the obvious one, combined with heavy penalties for those who hire illegals. Think of how effective the US government already is at confiscating or freezing the assets of people who are even suspected of drug dealing or other illegal activities. If these powers were applied to people who hire illegals, there'd be millions of them left with no option except self-deportation. Seeing that at least 50 million foreigners legally enter the US every year anyway, the only sure way of making sure they leave again is to prevent them from working there.
    , @reiner Tor
    I'm not sure how realistic is your statement regarding zero Mexican migration to the US (though I gotta admit I've read it elsewhere), but what you write is mostly reasonable.
    , @iSteveFan

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA.

     

    As a reader of this blog I have no doubt that certain Americans have been instrumental in allowing this invasion. In fact it's a common debate topic on this blog. But Mexico is not innocent. First, Mexico has created a social and economic system were wealth is highly concentrated and poor people are not able to adequately partake in the wealth of the world's 10th or 11th biggest economy. Though America is often described as having great disparities of wealth, you don't see a mass migration of our poor to other countries.

    Second, the Mexican government gives out maps and instructions for how to cross the border and obtain services in the US.

    Third, Mexican consulates give out ID cards like candy to facilitate illegals being able to remain.

    Fourth, Mexico relies on remittances from citizens in the US which are a significant part of their economy.

    So Mexico is not innocent. They facilitate this invasion.

    If you love America, you’ll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.
     
    I want Mexico to be as stable and rich as Canada. As Helmut Kohl once advised, if I were the US President, I'd put more effort into making Argentina, Brazil and Mexico into economic powerhouses than I would in playing in the sandbox of the middle east. I want Latin Americans to have a reason to remain in Latin America. I don't want Latin America expanding north. I am biased in favor of the English New World. Canada and the USA are special places. I don't want them to end up like Latin America. Unfortunately it's probably too late to save the USA.
    , @syonredux

    The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor

     

    Sadly true. The people who rule Anglo-America are perfectly willing to Hispanicize the USA.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.
     
    Why not both? An Israeli-style border barrier plus internal measures (E-VERIFY, etc). Sounds like a winning combination to me.

    As for Mexican immigration to Anglo-America, the damage has been done, and we will be paying the price for centuries:

    Generations of Exclusion: Mexican-Americans, Assimilation, and Race
    by Edward M. Telles (Author), Vilma Ortiz (Author), Joan W. Moore (Foreword)

    When boxes of original files from a 1965 survey of Mexican Americans were discovered behind a dusty bookshelf at UCLA, sociologists Edward Telles and Vilma Ortiz recognized a unique opportunity to examine how the Mexican American experience has evolved over the past four decades. Telles and Ortiz located and re-interviewed most of the original respondents and many of their children. Then, they combined the findings of both studies to construct a thirty-five year analysis of Mexican American integration into American society. Generations of Exclusion is the result of this extraordinary project.

    Generations of Exclusion measures Mexican American integration across a wide number of dimensions: education, English and Spanish language use, socioeconomic status, intermarriage, residential segregation, ethnic identity, and political participation. The study contains some encouraging findings, but many more that are troubling. Linguistically, Mexican Americans assimilate into mainstream America quite well—by the second generation, nearly all Mexican Americans achieve English proficiency. In many domains, however, the Mexican American story doesn’t fit with traditional models of assimilation. The majority of fourth generation Mexican Americans continue to live in Hispanic neighborhoods, marry other Hispanics, and think of themselves as Mexican. And while Mexican Americans make financial strides from the first to the second generation, economic progress halts at the second generation, and poverty rates remain high for later generations. Similarly, educational attainment peaks among second generation children of immigrants, but declines for the third and fourth generations.

    http://www.amazon.com/Generations-Exclusion-Mexican-Americans-Assimilation-Race/dp/0871548496
  104. @Jefferson
    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese. There would definitely be way less incidents of them catching fire.

    But since it is a lot cheaper for companies to pay Chinese people instead of Whites to built these things, hoverboards will never be made in White countries.

    Since China has a larger labor workforce due to their 1 billion plus population, they can make more hoverboards in mass bulk.

    The Chinese are all about creating quantity, not quality.

    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese. There would definitely be way less incidents of them catching fire.

    Not if they were built by the Italians

  105. “He was suddenly talking to me as a white person. I guess Merkel’s making us all look stupid.”

    Asians think of whites as “Americans”. I don’t think this changes until 3rd or 4th generation. They aren’t American, even if born here. They’re Indian, or Chinese, or Korean, or Hmong. And blacks aren’t American; they’re black. Ditto Hispanics.

    This is why the Chinese hire Russians to teach English, rejecting American blacks.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Asians think of whites as “Americans”. I don’t think this changes until 3rd or 4th generation. They aren’t American, even if born here. They’re Indian, or Chinese, or Korean, or Hmong. And blacks aren’t American; they’re black. Ditto Hispanics.
     
    My Korean-American wife (not an FOB-- grow up in the U.S.), and all of her Korean and Chinese friends from college, will use American as synonymous with white. Typical usage is when they are referring to an East Asian girlfriend of theirs and gossiping and will say, "[She] married an American guy." All of her Korean and Chinese-American girlfriends married "American" guys. And her two East Asian-American male friends married white women.
  106. Not Open Borders at all, The proposal is admitting the political consequences but assuming the predictable economic ones would not follow. It would be called apartheid to deny them a voting majority for the rest of their lives as he suggests. And the US born voting majority could be relied on to NOT continue to extend the franchise and make themselves a minority if they let the inflow continue

    The US’s economic success can not be separated from its ability to exert power externally. That ability would be hamstrung by the political conflict and uncertainty created, which countries (China) would take the fullest possible advantage of. That is why the slow cooking method is being followed. But they’ll get us there in the end.

  107. @iSteveFan

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.
     
    Really? So the immigration problem with Mexico is over? First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980, which is almost as many as the 13 million German and Italians combined that have arrived since 1607. So the damage as they say has already been done. Mexico has established itself into our society. And as I stated previously, for a New World nation of such size, this is truly an indication of an epic failure on their part.

    Second, this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine that any trend of 8 years is an indication that all is well? Do you honestly believe Mexico is now good to go? Do you honestly believe they are forever safe from the next economic crisis or bout of political instability that won't spark another wave of migration?

    Third, as a New World behemoth has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans that have departed northward, but I'd be afraid they too would just leave Mexico and become our problem.

    Finally, I don't put too much stock into that figure that has been bandied about that Mexican migration since the convenient start time of 2008 is zero. I take it with a grain of salt along with such statements that 'obama is the deporter in chief', and that the US has 12-20 million illegals.

    Have a look at that “Pew Hispanic” paper he relies on. Its numbers come from voluntary compliance with US and Mexican government surveys. I’ll venture that the response rate from illegal immigrants is not so high. That introduces a bias, as there are about zero illegal American immigrants in Mexico!

    And never mind that both governments that collected that data have an interest in getting us to ignore the problem.

    Unfortunately, bogus “studies” like this have a way of becoming the conventional wisdom.

    • Replies: @iSteveFan
    agreed
  108. @Dumbo
    America is finished, kaput. Its future is a slightly improved Latin America mixed with Hong Kong. I don't even know why so many want to immigrate to that doomed country.

    Maybe Australia and New Zealand can keep the Anglosphere going on. (Canada also isn't going to survive, their multiculturalization is happening even faster than in the US, considering that it was 95% white just 30 years ago and now it's 25% non-white)

    I have more faith that Germany, Italy or even Spain (not France, France is fucked as well) will survive as nations in the 22nd century than the US (at least, a recognizably Anglo US).

    The fact is that this so-called "globalization" or world immigration in such a large scale is in many ways a new phenomenon, thanks in large part to technology, but also to a certain mentality, and if White-Europeans want to survive, they need to adapt.

    Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation, or maybe they need to become nazis and build walls and shoot people, or if not find other ways to isolate themselves from the dark masses, perhaps become like the Amish, I don't really know, but whatever they are doing now, is not working.

    You are right about the USA, Dumbo. It is indeed finished and in the lifetime of some of us who are not yet seventy. How we loath those who did this to a once beautiful people, and how we despise those we warned but who would not listen, in 1964.
    But you are quite wrong about France. The French will be the first to react effectively; probably no more than five years from now. None of you people seem to know the French at all: their old elite is still around and is capable of anything once aroused. Just look at the Normans and start dreaming. It won’t be pretty, but it will be effective. Actually I don’t really mean that: it will be beautiful.
    Italy will survive too as will Switzerland, Spain, the Netherlands, of course all of the East, Denmark, maybe even Sweden.
    Germany is the big question mark. Merkel has robbed them of any excuse any longer that they don’t know what this “refugee” madness will do to them. But they are so paralysed by a wholly imaginary “guilt” that only the stupidest and the most far seeing are capable of reacting effectively. If the far seeing succeed in directing the inchoate reactions of the stupid, it will quickly get very interesting.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    My wife, who is French, tells me that the French people will come out swinging when they are told that they will be deprived of their vacations.
    , @anon

    But you are quite wrong about France. The French will be the first to react effectively...
     
    Only if US intervention to prevent them saving themselves is switched off beforehand.
  109. @Anonymous
    I absolutely disagree with everything you say.

    Firstly, it is pretty much inevitable that per capita Chinese income will exceed per capita American income within the next 30 years.
    People like you used to sneer at 'coolies' in Singapore or Hong Kong, the 'honey wagons' etc. Now Singapore per capita income massively exceeds American income.

    All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.

    The U.S. will still have more than double China’s per capita income by 2061 even as Chinese income levels are have rapid growth.

    the Federal Reserve Bank found China’s income per person will grow by two to three times the U.S. pace over the next half century. But that pace will still leave income levels in China at half those of the U.S., underscoring the gap between the world’s two biggest economies.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-16/u-s-will-still-have-double-china-s-per-capita-income-by-2061

  110. @ivvenalis
    My understanding of Open Borders thinking is that 30 million American without running water would be acceptable as long as it means that 30 million + 1 Indians (or whoever) previously living without it now have indoor plumbing in their shanties.

    Giving Indians indoor plumbing might not work. About 600,000,000 defecate outside in India, many by choice.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29502603

  111. @Old Palo Altan
    You are right about the USA, Dumbo. It is indeed finished and in the lifetime of some of us who are not yet seventy. How we loath those who did this to a once beautiful people, and how we despise those we warned but who would not listen, in 1964.
    But you are quite wrong about France. The French will be the first to react effectively; probably no more than five years from now. None of you people seem to know the French at all: their old elite is still around and is capable of anything once aroused. Just look at the Normans and start dreaming. It won't be pretty, but it will be effective. Actually I don't really mean that: it will be beautiful.
    Italy will survive too as will Switzerland, Spain, the Netherlands, of course all of the East, Denmark, maybe even Sweden.
    Germany is the big question mark. Merkel has robbed them of any excuse any longer that they don't know what this "refugee" madness will do to them. But they are so paralysed by a wholly imaginary "guilt" that only the stupidest and the most far seeing are capable of reacting effectively. If the far seeing succeed in directing the inchoate reactions of the stupid, it will quickly get very interesting.

    My wife, who is French, tells me that the French people will come out swinging when they are told that they will be deprived of their vacations.

  112. @Jefferson
    If the average Han Chinese IQ was so high, most products made in China would not be so vastly inferior.

    All of those dangerous Made In China hoverboards that are catching fire in the U.S, are obviously not being built by triple digit IQ Chinamen.

    Isn’t it unscrupulous manufacturers, not incompetent workers or designers, that are to blame for dangerous and inferior Chinese products?

  113. Nathan Smith is a curious character. He was a Mormon who is now a strong Christian of the sort who is under the spell of C. S. Lewis and G. K Chesterton. He is still young, so I would guess that he will, if he continues to grow into his new authentically Christian skin, grow OUT of this sort of utopianism.

  114. @jill
    Can we please start a gofundme project to provide free bus service for border illegals direct to Greenwich, Connecticut. Please.

    Malibu, Beverly Hills, and San Francisco are closer than Greenwich, but I’m in for $5.

  115. @(((Owen)))
    "So the immigration problem with Mexico is over?"

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA. It's impossible to keep migrants out when the leaders of the economy want them in and the government won't deny them. Without a mandatory, reasonably secure document verification system somebody is going to come.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Today it's millions of illegal Chinese, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. It could easily be Indians, Africans, or Bolivians tomorrow. But the problem isn't the source, it's the attractive welcome from zero internal enforcement.

    Many new illegals are using Mexico as a bridge and crossing without stopping. Mexico is rich enough to stop sending migrants but not organized enough to stop them from crossing Mexico on the way to America when Americans want them.

    --

    "First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980,"

    If the USA wants, it's easy to send the illegals back along with their spouses and children. Even US citizen spouses and children that have been naturalized will move away if you send one spouse home with a long term prohibition on entry as a penalty for coming illegally. The USA could easily remove 10 million Mexicans if it wanted to. (There are about 5-6 million illegal Mexicans in the USA now and falling.)

    " this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine"

    I'm not. Things are good and I'd like to see them much better. It's always possible they'll get worse, but the long term trend has been good for decades. You never know what might happen if some new awful Anglo intellectual movement arrives again to destroy Latin America the way Marxism did a century ago.

    "any trend of 8 years"

    Mexico has been on a steep upswing since 1985. It just took until 2008 to get strong enough to match the attraction of migration to Gringo jobs.

    "has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans"

    If you love America, you'll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    Both countries should wish each other well. Nobody should want a Somalia or a Germany on his borders.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Agreed. I distrust people who talk of a wall that would take years and cost billions to build, while they ignore far cheaper and quicker ways to stop and reverse immigration. A verification system for potential employees is the obvious one, combined with heavy penalties for those who hire illegals. Think of how effective the US government already is at confiscating or freezing the assets of people who are even suspected of drug dealing or other illegal activities. If these powers were applied to people who hire illegals, there’d be millions of them left with no option except self-deportation. Seeing that at least 50 million foreigners legally enter the US every year anyway, the only sure way of making sure they leave again is to prevent them from working there.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he'd be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.
  116. @Jefferson
    If the average Han Chinese IQ was so high, most products made in China would not be so vastly inferior.

    All of those dangerous Made In China hoverboards that are catching fire in the U.S, are obviously not being built by triple digit IQ Chinamen.

    …. and high iq askanazi dominated wall street would never have fraudsters and failures?

  117. … who then lived for forty years in Pebble Beach.
    Just to assure Mr Sailer’s readers that Salinas is indeed wholly out of sight and out of mind.
    It only impinges when one drives East to 101 to go either northwards to the Napa Valley or southwards to Brentwood or Santa Monica or Holmby. One used to think of Beverly Hills as a possible destination, but no longer.

  118. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @education realist
    "He was suddenly talking to me as a white person. I guess Merkel’s making us all look stupid."

    Asians think of whites as "Americans". I don't think this changes until 3rd or 4th generation. They aren't American, even if born here. They're Indian, or Chinese, or Korean, or Hmong. And blacks aren't American; they're black. Ditto Hispanics.

    This is why the Chinese hire Russians to teach English, rejecting American blacks.

    Asians think of whites as “Americans”. I don’t think this changes until 3rd or 4th generation. They aren’t American, even if born here. They’re Indian, or Chinese, or Korean, or Hmong. And blacks aren’t American; they’re black. Ditto Hispanics.

    My Korean-American wife (not an FOB– grow up in the U.S.), and all of her Korean and Chinese friends from college, will use American as synonymous with white. Typical usage is when they are referring to an East Asian girlfriend of theirs and gossiping and will say, “[She] married an American guy.” All of her Korean and Chinese-American girlfriends married “American” guys. And her two East Asian-American male friends married white women.

  119. @(((Owen)))
    "So the immigration problem with Mexico is over?"

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA. It's impossible to keep migrants out when the leaders of the economy want them in and the government won't deny them. Without a mandatory, reasonably secure document verification system somebody is going to come.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Today it's millions of illegal Chinese, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. It could easily be Indians, Africans, or Bolivians tomorrow. But the problem isn't the source, it's the attractive welcome from zero internal enforcement.

    Many new illegals are using Mexico as a bridge and crossing without stopping. Mexico is rich enough to stop sending migrants but not organized enough to stop them from crossing Mexico on the way to America when Americans want them.

    --

    "First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980,"

    If the USA wants, it's easy to send the illegals back along with their spouses and children. Even US citizen spouses and children that have been naturalized will move away if you send one spouse home with a long term prohibition on entry as a penalty for coming illegally. The USA could easily remove 10 million Mexicans if it wanted to. (There are about 5-6 million illegal Mexicans in the USA now and falling.)

    " this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine"

    I'm not. Things are good and I'd like to see them much better. It's always possible they'll get worse, but the long term trend has been good for decades. You never know what might happen if some new awful Anglo intellectual movement arrives again to destroy Latin America the way Marxism did a century ago.

    "any trend of 8 years"

    Mexico has been on a steep upswing since 1985. It just took until 2008 to get strong enough to match the attraction of migration to Gringo jobs.

    "has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans"

    If you love America, you'll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    Both countries should wish each other well. Nobody should want a Somalia or a Germany on his borders.

    I’m not sure how realistic is your statement regarding zero Mexican migration to the US (though I gotta admit I’ve read it elsewhere), but what you write is mostly reasonable.

  120. @rod1963
    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.

    Not that you'd ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.

    The reason why the wealthy support open borders is because it destroys the value of labor and human right and makes them wealthier in the process.

    And that's what matters. In fact it's the defining factor in this years presidential race. Where we have a bunch of open borders globalists vs. the solitary nationalist who wants to build a wall and impose tariffs.

    Not that you’d ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.

    Yep, and MSM are their town criers> not the bearers of ‘news’ but transmitters of ‘the message’

  121. @Alec Leamas
    There really should be a word for the propensity of academics to seek to give a veneer of scholarship to conclusions which are simply the opposite of good sense and reason. Of course anyone who isn't an artificial intelligence prototype knows that the economic benefits of a Billion more (foreign born) people eating and shitting in the United States would be outweighed by the disastrous externalities. But it takes an academic to elide all of those obvious negative impacts, dress things up with jargonese, and produce a work of un-reason which is then used as a justification by policy.

    In academic publishing, there is a strong bias towards “surprising,” i.e., unexpected or counter-intuitive results. Otherwise, a paper is just “what we knew already.”

  122. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Today, here in the Bay Area, I had a conversation with an old friend (an American-born East Indian Hindu) about German/European immigration policies. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “You people are idiots!”

    Never, never, underestimate the hatred some very high IQ Hindus have for Moslems. And not some historical “in the past hate”, but an up-to-date “right now” hate. Some of the few displays that I’ve seen in my life directly that I’d consider to cross the line to honest full “the only good… is a dead…” thinking have been by high IQ Hindus in silicon valley, when speaking of Moslems. I guess they got immivaded and didn’t appreciate it. Maybe sometimes there’s little you can do about it after the fact but hate. Welcome to the brave new world.

    • Replies: @Spmoore8
    The division of India upon independence into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan (east and west, east became Bangladesh) involved large scale population transfers and attendant loss of wealth. I worked closely with a very progressive Hindu who had inherited a hatred of Muslims from his parents.
    , @Charles Martel
    It isn't hatred but prudence. I can't imagine any Western statesman from a bygone age reacting differently to this. What Merkel is doing would be considered stupid and insane by any sane, sensible person. Of course, the fact that Hindu Indians don't get the PC brainwashing while growing up in India does "help" in seeing things more clearly. This, of course, does not prevent them from having good personal relations with some decent individual Muslims in their own life - and life is always complicated, never binary.

    Also, India has a long bloody history with Islam which had periods of brutal persecution of all non-Muslims by Muslims, periods of relative quiet and some brief periods of mutual respect and toleration. However, the brutality of the Muslim rulers and, in a more democratic time, of Muslim mobs when they found themselves to be the majority, is a consistent theme throughout history. And Indians are becoming more conscious of their history than they used to be.

    It is also incorrect to call this "race consciousness". This isn't really about race as most Hindus would consider White Chechens as much of a problem as the Black Boko Haram types (which indeed they are - although they would readily concede that the White Chechens would probably make better fighters).

  123. Immigration has been Mexcessive.

  124. Yup, this is sure to inspire respect for ‘European values’ among the horny migrants.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Why don't they just carry concealed pipes? That'd be more manly, and more chivalrous.
  125. @(((Owen)))
    "So the immigration problem with Mexico is over?"

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA. It's impossible to keep migrants out when the leaders of the economy want them in and the government won't deny them. Without a mandatory, reasonably secure document verification system somebody is going to come.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Today it's millions of illegal Chinese, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. It could easily be Indians, Africans, or Bolivians tomorrow. But the problem isn't the source, it's the attractive welcome from zero internal enforcement.

    Many new illegals are using Mexico as a bridge and crossing without stopping. Mexico is rich enough to stop sending migrants but not organized enough to stop them from crossing Mexico on the way to America when Americans want them.

    --

    "First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980,"

    If the USA wants, it's easy to send the illegals back along with their spouses and children. Even US citizen spouses and children that have been naturalized will move away if you send one spouse home with a long term prohibition on entry as a penalty for coming illegally. The USA could easily remove 10 million Mexicans if it wanted to. (There are about 5-6 million illegal Mexicans in the USA now and falling.)

    " this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine"

    I'm not. Things are good and I'd like to see them much better. It's always possible they'll get worse, but the long term trend has been good for decades. You never know what might happen if some new awful Anglo intellectual movement arrives again to destroy Latin America the way Marxism did a century ago.

    "any trend of 8 years"

    Mexico has been on a steep upswing since 1985. It just took until 2008 to get strong enough to match the attraction of migration to Gringo jobs.

    "has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans"

    If you love America, you'll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    Both countries should wish each other well. Nobody should want a Somalia or a Germany on his borders.

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA.

    As a reader of this blog I have no doubt that certain Americans have been instrumental in allowing this invasion. In fact it’s a common debate topic on this blog. But Mexico is not innocent. First, Mexico has created a social and economic system were wealth is highly concentrated and poor people are not able to adequately partake in the wealth of the world’s 10th or 11th biggest economy. Though America is often described as having great disparities of wealth, you don’t see a mass migration of our poor to other countries.

    Second, the Mexican government gives out maps and instructions for how to cross the border and obtain services in the US.

    Third, Mexican consulates give out ID cards like candy to facilitate illegals being able to remain.

    Fourth, Mexico relies on remittances from citizens in the US which are a significant part of their economy.

    So Mexico is not innocent. They facilitate this invasion.

    If you love America, you’ll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    I want Mexico to be as stable and rich as Canada. As Helmut Kohl once advised, if I were the US President, I’d put more effort into making Argentina, Brazil and Mexico into economic powerhouses than I would in playing in the sandbox of the middle east. I want Latin Americans to have a reason to remain in Latin America. I don’t want Latin America expanding north. I am biased in favor of the English New World. Canada and the USA are special places. I don’t want them to end up like Latin America. Unfortunately it’s probably too late to save the USA.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    But Mexico is not innocent. First, Mexico has created a social and economic system were wealth is highly concentrated and poor people are not able to adequately partake in the wealth of the world’s 10th or 11th biggest economy.
     
    It's called "race".

    And the Mexicans didn't create it. They've managed it, very poorly, or very well, depending on your worldview.
    , @Veracitor
  126. @International Jew
    Have a look at that "Pew Hispanic" paper he relies on. Its numbers come from voluntary compliance with US and Mexican government surveys. I'll venture that the response rate from illegal immigrants is not so high. That introduces a bias, as there are about zero illegal American immigrants in Mexico!

    And never mind that both governments that collected that data have an interest in getting us to ignore the problem.

    Unfortunately, bogus "studies" like this have a way of becoming the conventional wisdom.

    agreed

  127. @Jefferson
    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese. There would definitely be way less incidents of them catching fire.

    But since it is a lot cheaper for companies to pay Chinese people instead of Whites to built these things, hoverboards will never be made in White countries.

    Since China has a larger labor workforce due to their 1 billion plus population, they can make more hoverboards in mass bulk.

    The Chinese are all about creating quantity, not quality.

    Can you imagine how safer hoverboards would be if they were being built by White people instead of the Chinese.

    I remember seeing a lifeboat labeled “Made in Canada”. I had no idea whether to worry or to relax. At least I can swim.

  128. @iSteveFan

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA.

     

    As a reader of this blog I have no doubt that certain Americans have been instrumental in allowing this invasion. In fact it's a common debate topic on this blog. But Mexico is not innocent. First, Mexico has created a social and economic system were wealth is highly concentrated and poor people are not able to adequately partake in the wealth of the world's 10th or 11th biggest economy. Though America is often described as having great disparities of wealth, you don't see a mass migration of our poor to other countries.

    Second, the Mexican government gives out maps and instructions for how to cross the border and obtain services in the US.

    Third, Mexican consulates give out ID cards like candy to facilitate illegals being able to remain.

    Fourth, Mexico relies on remittances from citizens in the US which are a significant part of their economy.

    So Mexico is not innocent. They facilitate this invasion.

    If you love America, you’ll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.
     
    I want Mexico to be as stable and rich as Canada. As Helmut Kohl once advised, if I were the US President, I'd put more effort into making Argentina, Brazil and Mexico into economic powerhouses than I would in playing in the sandbox of the middle east. I want Latin Americans to have a reason to remain in Latin America. I don't want Latin America expanding north. I am biased in favor of the English New World. Canada and the USA are special places. I don't want them to end up like Latin America. Unfortunately it's probably too late to save the USA.

    But Mexico is not innocent. First, Mexico has created a social and economic system were wealth is highly concentrated and poor people are not able to adequately partake in the wealth of the world’s 10th or 11th biggest economy.

    It’s called “race”.

    And the Mexicans didn’t create it. They’ve managed it, very poorly, or very well, depending on your worldview.

  129. @(((Owen)))
    "So the immigration problem with Mexico is over?"

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA. It's impossible to keep migrants out when the leaders of the economy want them in and the government won't deny them. Without a mandatory, reasonably secure document verification system somebody is going to come.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Today it's millions of illegal Chinese, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, and Hondurans. It could easily be Indians, Africans, or Bolivians tomorrow. But the problem isn't the source, it's the attractive welcome from zero internal enforcement.

    Many new illegals are using Mexico as a bridge and crossing without stopping. Mexico is rich enough to stop sending migrants but not organized enough to stop them from crossing Mexico on the way to America when Americans want them.

    --

    "First, I note that your timeline conveniently begins at 2008. This after at least 11 million Mexicans have arrived just since 1980,"

    If the USA wants, it's easy to send the illegals back along with their spouses and children. Even US citizen spouses and children that have been naturalized will move away if you send one spouse home with a long term prohibition on entry as a penalty for coming illegally. The USA could easily remove 10 million Mexicans if it wanted to. (There are about 5-6 million illegal Mexicans in the USA now and falling.)

    " this is Mexico we are discussing. What makes you sanguine"

    I'm not. Things are good and I'd like to see them much better. It's always possible they'll get worse, but the long term trend has been good for decades. You never know what might happen if some new awful Anglo intellectual movement arrives again to destroy Latin America the way Marxism did a century ago.

    "any trend of 8 years"

    Mexico has been on a steep upswing since 1985. It just took until 2008 to get strong enough to match the attraction of migration to Gringo jobs.

    "has Mexico now become a magnet for immigrants like the New World British-founded ones? I would say that Mexico should be forced to take in 10 million Syrians to replace the Mexicans"

    If you love America, you'll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.

    Both countries should wish each other well. Nobody should want a Somalia or a Germany on his borders.

    The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor

    Sadly true. The people who rule Anglo-America are perfectly willing to Hispanicize the USA.

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.

    Why not both? An Israeli-style border barrier plus internal measures (E-VERIFY, etc). Sounds like a winning combination to me.

    As for Mexican immigration to Anglo-America, the damage has been done, and we will be paying the price for centuries:

    Generations of Exclusion: Mexican-Americans, Assimilation, and Race
    by Edward M. Telles (Author), Vilma Ortiz (Author), Joan W. Moore (Foreword)

    When boxes of original files from a 1965 survey of Mexican Americans were discovered behind a dusty bookshelf at UCLA, sociologists Edward Telles and Vilma Ortiz recognized a unique opportunity to examine how the Mexican American experience has evolved over the past four decades. Telles and Ortiz located and re-interviewed most of the original respondents and many of their children. Then, they combined the findings of both studies to construct a thirty-five year analysis of Mexican American integration into American society. Generations of Exclusion is the result of this extraordinary project.

    Generations of Exclusion measures Mexican American integration across a wide number of dimensions: education, English and Spanish language use, socioeconomic status, intermarriage, residential segregation, ethnic identity, and political participation. The study contains some encouraging findings, but many more that are troubling. Linguistically, Mexican Americans assimilate into mainstream America quite well—by the second generation, nearly all Mexican Americans achieve English proficiency. In many domains, however, the Mexican American story doesn’t fit with traditional models of assimilation. The majority of fourth generation Mexican Americans continue to live in Hispanic neighborhoods, marry other Hispanics, and think of themselves as Mexican. And while Mexican Americans make financial strides from the first to the second generation, economic progress halts at the second generation, and poverty rates remain high for later generations. Similarly, educational attainment peaks among second generation children of immigrants, but declines for the third and fourth generations.

  130. RE: immigration,

    A useful book:

    Hive Mind: How Your Nation’s IQ Matters So Much More Than Your Own
    by Garett Jones

    Over the last few decades, economists and psychologists have quietly documented the many ways in which a person’s IQ matters. But, research suggests that a nation’s IQ matters so much more.

    As Garett Jones argues in Hive Mind, modest differences in national IQ can explain most cross-country inequalities. Whereas IQ scores do a moderately good job of predicting individual wages, information processing power, and brain size, a country’s average score is a much stronger bellwether of its overall prosperity.

  131. The comment thread at the Salinas link is short but illustrative of the bonkers logic of open-borders romantics. In two tiny posts, the GMU initiate on the thread explains that low wages is a good indicator of a high labor force participation rate, and that “controlling for” a demographic variable means that you should just ignore it and pretend you live in the hypothetical world in which said variable does not exist.

  132. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    A nation with a billion people would be a mess for the peons but more power for the elites at the top.

    More consumers, more tax-payers, more cannon fodder, etc.

    If China had 200 million than 1.3 billion, it would be less powerful.

    Suppose if China and India didn't exist.

    Suppose US had the biggest population in the world.

    Maybe US elites wouldn't be so worried about growing the population.

    When China and India were backward and poor, they hardly posed any kind of challenge to the US. If anything, their population seemed like a burden.

    But now that the are rising in the world(despite recent troubles), maybe US elites think US can only be a superpower with MORE people.

    Besides, with the demise of labor union power in the US, the 1% could easily push around the 99%. Like in China.

    A nation with a billion people would be a mess for the peons but more power for the elites at the top. More consumers, more tax-payers, more cannon fodder, etc.

    Obvious nonsense: more but poorer consumers and tax payers and less efficient cannon fodder would be less power – as evidenced by India vs US currently.

    What there would be is a bigger gap between the elite and the rest – that’s all – and that’s all they want – a bigger gap.

    • Agree: BB753
  133. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Dumbo
    America is finished, kaput. Its future is a slightly improved Latin America mixed with Hong Kong. I don't even know why so many want to immigrate to that doomed country.

    Maybe Australia and New Zealand can keep the Anglosphere going on. (Canada also isn't going to survive, their multiculturalization is happening even faster than in the US, considering that it was 95% white just 30 years ago and now it's 25% non-white)

    I have more faith that Germany, Italy or even Spain (not France, France is fucked as well) will survive as nations in the 22nd century than the US (at least, a recognizably Anglo US).

    The fact is that this so-called "globalization" or world immigration in such a large scale is in many ways a new phenomenon, thanks in large part to technology, but also to a certain mentality, and if White-Europeans want to survive, they need to adapt.

    Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation, or maybe they need to become nazis and build walls and shoot people, or if not find other ways to isolate themselves from the dark masses, perhaps become like the Amish, I don't really know, but whatever they are doing now, is not working.

    It should be becoming obvious enough now that as long as white people create societies that other people want to live in then given modern transport and communications white people won’t survive without walls.

    From there they can try and figure out ways of making the people outside not want to immigrate – like special forces CRISPR lab teams who air-drop onto remote villages at night, CRISPR all the women’s hair blonde then evac.

  134. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jefferson
    "Maybe they need to become like Jews and find ways to avoid assimilation,"

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    Among Jewish Millennials, half Jews and quarter Jews outnumber pure Jews.

    Most Jewish Millennials in the U.S do not have 2 Jewish parents. That is why Rabbis in this country are extremely worried.

    Harrison Ford's Millennial kids for example are only 1/8 Jewish. Carrie Fisher's Millennial blonde daughter is only 1/4 Jewish.

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.

    Orthodox.

    As long as they have a relatively unmixed population they can always undilute again e.g.

    1) marry chinese
    2) children marry orthodox
    3) children marry orthodox
    4) children marry german
    5) children marry orthodox
    6) children marry orthodox
    etc

    (No idea if that happens, just saying it could as long as have two separate breeding populations.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It's unlikely to work like that. Only the children of Jewish women and non-Jewish men would be acceptable to the Orthodox without formal conversion, and among the ultra-Orthodox and hasidim, who arrange their marriages, the half-Jews would be considered undesirable.
  135. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I absolutely disagree with everything you say.

    Firstly, it is pretty much inevitable that per capita Chinese income will exceed per capita American income within the next 30 years.
    People like you used to sneer at 'coolies' in Singapore or Hong Kong, the 'honey wagons' etc. Now Singapore per capita income massively exceeds American income.

    All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.

    People like you used to sneer at ‘coolies’ …

    Most of the old quotes I’ve seen were white people saying orientals should be kept out because they were smart and hard working i.e. potential competition.

    However although I don’t think anyone sensible doubts the high IQ of coastal Chinese I’m not convinced it extends all the way inland – still above world average but not necessarily above that.

    However that might still be enough to outpace US per capita GDP imo but the next question is prosperity IQ alone or IQ/corruption? If so it will be interesting to compare Singapore with Shanghai, Hong Kong, Macau over time – similar average IQ but with possibly different levels of corruption.

    Although even then, as US corruption increases that advantage will seep away.

    So on balance I would expect China’s per capita income to pip the US, alone if they minimize corruption but otherwise partly due to America’s average IQ going down and corruption index going up.

    • Replies: @rvg
    Stop being stupid, China's GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan, or between Taiwan and Korea, as for Hong Kong, its GDP per capita is below Washington DC, or the lower Manhattan, which is a more fair comparison rather than comparing it to a country. And Singapore and Hong Kong's per capita GDP is based on real estate and finance, or the FIRE economy, vs. industry like Germany, Korea, or Japan.
  136. @rod1963
    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.

    Not that you'd ever find a economist who cares about that that, given that most are no more court astrologers for the wealthy and powerful.

    The reason why the wealthy support open borders is because it destroys the value of labor and human right and makes them wealthier in the process.

    And that's what matters. In fact it's the defining factor in this years presidential race. Where we have a bunch of open borders globalists vs. the solitary nationalist who wants to build a wall and impose tariffs.

    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.

    The U.S. would exist as a physical place… It may undergo secessions or annexations. They may keep the flag or maybe not… But some pieces of it will continue to exist.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Sure, the North American continent will continue to exist, and there will be some sort of government(s) in that area. It won't revert to hunting gathering or nomadism.
  137. @Anonymous
    Nothing's stopping a 'white' manufacturer from making them.

    Nothing’s stopping a ‘white’ manufacturer from making them.

    Sure there is, Wall St’s version of “free trade” agreements.

  138. Now, migration restrictions involve doing terrible things to people. US immigration enforcement separates thousands of parents from their children by force ever year. European coast guards are culpable for a mounting toll of migrant deaths at sea, and so on. These things simply must stop.

    When universities give room and board scholarships to adult students but not their children/parents, are they also fully guilty for separating parents and children? If you let a friend crash at your house but not their parents/children, are you fully responsible for separating parent and child?

    If your house or finances you keep in a bank can help others from dying, are you to blame for the deaths that occur?

    These claims are absolutely absurd. I find it beyond outrageous that they can make these claims with a shred of credibility.

    • Agree: International Jew
  139. @Old Palo Altan
    You are right about the USA, Dumbo. It is indeed finished and in the lifetime of some of us who are not yet seventy. How we loath those who did this to a once beautiful people, and how we despise those we warned but who would not listen, in 1964.
    But you are quite wrong about France. The French will be the first to react effectively; probably no more than five years from now. None of you people seem to know the French at all: their old elite is still around and is capable of anything once aroused. Just look at the Normans and start dreaming. It won't be pretty, but it will be effective. Actually I don't really mean that: it will be beautiful.
    Italy will survive too as will Switzerland, Spain, the Netherlands, of course all of the East, Denmark, maybe even Sweden.
    Germany is the big question mark. Merkel has robbed them of any excuse any longer that they don't know what this "refugee" madness will do to them. But they are so paralysed by a wholly imaginary "guilt" that only the stupidest and the most far seeing are capable of reacting effectively. If the far seeing succeed in directing the inchoate reactions of the stupid, it will quickly get very interesting.

    But you are quite wrong about France. The French will be the first to react effectively…

    Only if US intervention to prevent them saving themselves is switched off beforehand.

  140. @(((Owen)))
    "should be a destination for immigrants like the British-founded New World nations. Instead it is the largest source nation of immigrants"

    Not anymore.

    Net migration between the USA and Mexico is from the USA and toward Mexico and has been every year since 2008.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

    Migration from Europe to Mexico appears strong as well. Mexico receives net migration from east Asia and the Caribbean.

    Frankly, it's apparent that Mexico is now receiving too many immigrants and should be slowing down the flow, especially from the caribbean and Central America. Right now I see a lot of educated Haitian nurses taking jobs that -- supposedly -- Mexicans won't do, like prison and asylum orderly jobs. Raise wages and spend a little more on education and plenty of Mexicans will want those jobs.

    El Salvador and Honduras aren't even sending their best. They're driving crime up just as they arrive to take better paying menial Mexican jobs that lower educated Mexicans need.

    I don’t trust that Pew Study. See comment 109 for details.

  141. @Anonymous
    I absolutely disagree with everything you say.

    Firstly, it is pretty much inevitable that per capita Chinese income will exceed per capita American income within the next 30 years.
    People like you used to sneer at 'coolies' in Singapore or Hong Kong, the 'honey wagons' etc. Now Singapore per capita income massively exceeds American income.

    All the scientific testing upholds the reality of high Chinese IQ.

    I thought China was going to get old before it gets rich.

  142. @Anon
    Yup, this is sure to inspire respect for 'European values' among the horny migrants.

    https://youtu.be/lQIdhdQKDCE

    Why don’t they just carry concealed pipes? That’d be more manly, and more chivalrous.

  143. @anon

    People like you used to sneer at ‘coolies’ ...
     
    Most of the old quotes I've seen were white people saying orientals should be kept out because they were smart and hard working i.e. potential competition.

    However although I don't think anyone sensible doubts the high IQ of coastal Chinese I'm not convinced it extends all the way inland - still above world average but not necessarily above that.

    However that might still be enough to outpace US per capita GDP imo but the next question is prosperity IQ alone or IQ/corruption? If so it will be interesting to compare Singapore with Shanghai, Hong Kong, Macau over time - similar average IQ but with possibly different levels of corruption.

    Although even then, as US corruption increases that advantage will seep away.

    So on balance I would expect China's per capita income to pip the US, alone if they minimize corruption but otherwise partly due to America's average IQ going down and corruption index going up.

    Stop being stupid, China’s GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan, or between Taiwan and Korea, as for Hong Kong, its GDP per capita is below Washington DC, or the lower Manhattan, which is a more fair comparison rather than comparing it to a country. And Singapore and Hong Kong’s per capita GDP is based on real estate and finance, or the FIRE economy, vs. industry like Germany, Korea, or Japan.

    • Replies: @anon

    Stop being stupid, China’s GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan
     
    Well maybe, personally i'm not convinced that the Chinese interior is the same as the coastal regions - time will tell.
    , @Anonymous
    Yep.

    And I guess the 'great recession' and the MMM, the corruption of Wall Street and all the subprime, are just distant memories to you.
  144. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Cryptogenic
    One-way gene flow. Jewish guys get shiksas. Jewish women get Jewish guys.

    Carrie Fisher is a counter-example – she is more Jewish than her husband, resulting in a daughter whose Jewish ancestry is more dilute than hers. There are a fair number of non-Orthodox Jewish women who marry non-Jews these days. From my Reform Jewish religious school class in a mid-size non-coastal city, I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head, and I don’t even keep in touch with any of them formally. This religious school class was not very large.

  145. @anon

    The majority of Jews in the U.S do not marry other Jews, so they are doing an extremely horrible job of keeping the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.
     
    Orthodox.

    As long as they have a relatively unmixed population they can always undilute again e.g.

    1) marry chinese
    2) children marry orthodox
    3) children marry orthodox
    4) children marry german
    5) children marry orthodox
    6) children marry orthodox
    etc

    (No idea if that happens, just saying it could as long as have two separate breeding populations.)

    It’s unlikely to work like that. Only the children of Jewish women and non-Jewish men would be acceptable to the Orthodox without formal conversion, and among the ultra-Orthodox and hasidim, who arrange their marriages, the half-Jews would be considered undesirable.

  146. @iSteveFan

    No. The problem has never been Mexico. The problem is that the USA is run by plutocrats and status seekers that want cheap labor and cheap grace. There is no internal enforcement of laws against foreigners entering and working illegally in the USA.

     

    As a reader of this blog I have no doubt that certain Americans have been instrumental in allowing this invasion. In fact it's a common debate topic on this blog. But Mexico is not innocent. First, Mexico has created a social and economic system were wealth is highly concentrated and poor people are not able to adequately partake in the wealth of the world's 10th or 11th biggest economy. Though America is often described as having great disparities of wealth, you don't see a mass migration of our poor to other countries.

    Second, the Mexican government gives out maps and instructions for how to cross the border and obtain services in the US.

    Third, Mexican consulates give out ID cards like candy to facilitate illegals being able to remain.

    Fourth, Mexico relies on remittances from citizens in the US which are a significant part of their economy.

    So Mexico is not innocent. They facilitate this invasion.

    If you love America, you’ll want Mexico to prosper and not become a festering sore on the border. The last thing you should want is a permanent hostile unassimilable alien colony inside Mexican borders.
     
    I want Mexico to be as stable and rich as Canada. As Helmut Kohl once advised, if I were the US President, I'd put more effort into making Argentina, Brazil and Mexico into economic powerhouses than I would in playing in the sandbox of the middle east. I want Latin Americans to have a reason to remain in Latin America. I don't want Latin America expanding north. I am biased in favor of the English New World. Canada and the USA are special places. I don't want them to end up like Latin America. Unfortunately it's probably too late to save the USA.
    • Replies: @Romanian
    This article describes all of the shenanigans like the one you mentioned.

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_4_mexico.html
    , @(((Owen)))
    "The Mexican government famously published a comic-book guide for wetbacks"

    That claim is scurrilous and obviously false. The guide has a few drawings mixed into the walls of text, but there is no comic narration or story and the drawings contain none of the didactic material. It's no more a comic book than a new story with a photo is a comic strip.

    And the Mexican migration wave had low literacy rates for walls of text. "They're not sending their best."
  147. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I don’t know about China. I’ve met plenty of smart Chinese in silicon valley. But even some of the smartest ones don’t seem to have a problem with things like using stolen software. This might seem petty, but they just don’t seem bothered (“everybody does it”). They are open about it. I wonder if historically much of that intelligence is buried by corruption, double-dealing, and bribery. And they sure seem to have a “big man” attitude to the effect that whatever the big man is doing must be what we all have to really concentrate on. I suppose if the big man would have you killed to inspire the others, over a long enough period, that attitude might become innate. Maybe another problem is too much intelligence goes into trying to please the big man.

  148. @iSteveFan

    the Ashkenazi bloodline pure and avoiding Goy blood from entering the family tree.
     
    I don't get this sentiment. Didn't they recently show through genetic research that Ashkenazis are a result of Jewish men in Rome marrying Gentile women?

    “Ashkenazis are a result of Jewish men in Rome marrying Gentile women?”

    Indeed, previously known as Italian women.

    I would really like to know more about these women/marriages.

    I’m guessing that since the Ashkenazi moved north, that the group may have been ostracised by both Italian and Jewish communities in Rome.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Italian Jews, including modern Roman Jews, are very similar to Ashkenazi Jews in population genetics studies. There is no good reason to expect that the modern Roman Jewish community lacks the ancient (mostly) Italian admixture found in Ashkenazi Jews. Movement north followed economic opportunity. Many of the people who moved were traders after all.
  149. @rvg
    Stop being stupid, China's GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan, or between Taiwan and Korea, as for Hong Kong, its GDP per capita is below Washington DC, or the lower Manhattan, which is a more fair comparison rather than comparing it to a country. And Singapore and Hong Kong's per capita GDP is based on real estate and finance, or the FIRE economy, vs. industry like Germany, Korea, or Japan.

    Stop being stupid, China’s GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan

    Well maybe, personally i’m not convinced that the Chinese interior is the same as the coastal regions – time will tell.

    • Replies: @rvg
    No I mean you can't compare the GDP per capita of Hong Kong/Singapore vs. Germany, Japan, Korea, or US, Hong Kong vs. Tokyo or Seoul or Washington DC would be more appropriate. You can't compare the GDP per capita of city states vs. entire countries.
  150. worst to best immigrants

    1) high IQ + don’t care about the public good
    2) low IQ + don’t care about the public good
    3) low IQ + care about the public good
    4) high IQ + care about the public good

  151. @(((Owen)))
    "If Europe were to take immigrants from Mexico, it would take the uppers than the lowers. "

    Mexicans don't require a visa to visit Europe. You just buy a ticket and fly across the Atlantic direct from Mexico City whenever you like. Still Europe doesn't have any kind of Mexican immigration problems. Mexicans that go to Europe are mostly yuppie tourists.

    "Mass migration to America has been good for Mexicans masses"

    No. It divides families and destroys towns and neighborhoods.Have you met Mexican men living ten to an apartment to work at hard labor below minimum wage 11 hours a day to save cash to send home? Missing fingers when they return because they didn't have documentation, workman's comp, safe conditions, or health care? Separated from their wives and children?

    The children at home growing up without fathers aren't happy either. Little boys love a truck but they'd much rather have dad than a shiny new F-150.

    Mass migration to America…divides families and destroys towns and neighborhoods.Have you met Mexican men living ten to an apartment to work at hard labor below minimum wage 11 hours a day to save cash to send home? Missing fingers when they return because they didn’t have documentation, workman’s comp, safe conditions, or health care? Separated from their wives and children?

    The children at home growing up without fathers aren’t happy either. Little boys love a truck but they’d much rather have dad than a shiny new F-150.

    All of which can be avoided by simply staying in Mexico. As you yourself say, children would rather have their fathers than material possessions.

  152. @anonymous
    Today, here in the Bay Area, I had a conversation with an old friend (an American-born East Indian Hindu) about German/European immigration policies. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “You people are idiots!”


    Never, never, underestimate the hatred some very high IQ Hindus have for Moslems. And not some historical "in the past hate", but an up-to-date "right now" hate. Some of the few displays that I've seen in my life directly that I'd consider to cross the line to honest full "the only good... is a dead..." thinking have been by high IQ Hindus in silicon valley, when speaking of Moslems. I guess they got immivaded and didn't appreciate it. Maybe sometimes there's little you can do about it after the fact but hate. Welcome to the brave new world.

    The division of India upon independence into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan (east and west, east became Bangladesh) involved large scale population transfers and attendant loss of wealth. I worked closely with a very progressive Hindu who had inherited a hatred of Muslims from his parents.

    • Replies: @rvg
    Looking at Bangladesh now are you sure much was lost?
  153. @rvg
    Stop being stupid, China's GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan, or between Taiwan and Korea, as for Hong Kong, its GDP per capita is below Washington DC, or the lower Manhattan, which is a more fair comparison rather than comparing it to a country. And Singapore and Hong Kong's per capita GDP is based on real estate and finance, or the FIRE economy, vs. industry like Germany, Korea, or Japan.

    Yep.

    And I guess the ‘great recession’ and the MMM, the corruption of Wall Street and all the subprime, are just distant memories to you.

  154. @Rob McX

    Border walls are a red herring; only internal workplace checks can work.
     
    Agreed. I distrust people who talk of a wall that would take years and cost billions to build, while they ignore far cheaper and quicker ways to stop and reverse immigration. A verification system for potential employees is the obvious one, combined with heavy penalties for those who hire illegals. Think of how effective the US government already is at confiscating or freezing the assets of people who are even suspected of drug dealing or other illegal activities. If these powers were applied to people who hire illegals, there'd be millions of them left with no option except self-deportation. Seeing that at least 50 million foreigners legally enter the US every year anyway, the only sure way of making sure they leave again is to prevent them from working there.

    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he’d be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he’d be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.
     
    And more funding for the National Stroke Association. My dog is a belly stroke victim.
    , @Veracitor

    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he’d be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.
     
    Damn, you're good, Steve. That is why we come here: to watch you blow away the fog and reveal the solid core of each phenomenon shining dew-sparkled in the sunlight.
  155. @Spmoore8
    The division of India upon independence into Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan (east and west, east became Bangladesh) involved large scale population transfers and attendant loss of wealth. I worked closely with a very progressive Hindu who had inherited a hatred of Muslims from his parents.

    Looking at Bangladesh now are you sure much was lost?

  156. @anon

    Stop being stupid, China’s GDP per capita will likely top out at a level similar to Taiwan
     
    Well maybe, personally i'm not convinced that the Chinese interior is the same as the coastal regions - time will tell.

    No I mean you can’t compare the GDP per capita of Hong Kong/Singapore vs. Germany, Japan, Korea, or US, Hong Kong vs. Tokyo or Seoul or Washington DC would be more appropriate. You can’t compare the GDP per capita of city states vs. entire countries.

    • Replies: @anon
    We're probably talking at cross-purposes but the reason I mentioned Singapore, Macau, Hong Kong and Shanghai was to test if same average IQ but different corruption quotient predicted per capita GDP rather than as a comparison with the US.
  157. @rvg
    No I mean you can't compare the GDP per capita of Hong Kong/Singapore vs. Germany, Japan, Korea, or US, Hong Kong vs. Tokyo or Seoul or Washington DC would be more appropriate. You can't compare the GDP per capita of city states vs. entire countries.

    We’re probably talking at cross-purposes but the reason I mentioned Singapore, Macau, Hong Kong and Shanghai was to test if same average IQ but different corruption quotient predicted per capita GDP rather than as a comparison with the US.

  158. @Massimo Heitor

    Bringing in a billion 3rd worlders with a average 80 IQ would be a political, economic and ecological nightmare. The U.S. would cease to exist.
     
    The U.S. would exist as a physical place... It may undergo secessions or annexations. They may keep the flag or maybe not... But some pieces of it will continue to exist.

    Sure, the North American continent will continue to exist, and there will be some sort of government(s) in that area. It won’t revert to hunting gathering or nomadism.

  159. @Spartan
    It's a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism. The certain results of turning the entire third world loose on the West are very methodically (mis-)forecasted through the lens of an ideology that only appeals, and will only ever appeal, to a small minority of high IQ Western white men. The horde arriving at our doorstep has no concern whatsoever for "deontology" or "utilitarian universalism." I haven't fully read through either piece, but this never seems to enter into his mind.

    People like the author can be productive members of Western society, but when advocating national policy they're basically indistinguishable from lunatics.


    My “billion immigrants” scenario does not involve widespread deprivation of real human goods like food, art, material comforts, family life, freedom of conscience and worship, health, education, truth, adventure, etc. On the contrary, it would seem to involve greater enjoyment of those things by almost everyone[....]
     
    Well, we won't be deprived of adventure. Behold the voice of the Outer Party! I have no doubt the author believes this, just as I have no doubt that the Inner Party knows that it's nonsense and either doesn't care or aims for those deprivations.

    Spartan wrote:

    It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism.

    Nobody owns the word “libertarian” and “libertarians” vary just as widely as “conservatives.” No one here would lump Steve Sailer in with Marco Rubio or lump Bill Kristol in with Donald Trump, even though the word “conservative” might be applied to all four gentlemen.

    There is in fact a simple “libertarian” argument against open borders: we and our ancestors paid for the public spaces and amenities in this country — roads, parks, sidewalks, public transportation, hospitals, schools, etc. — and to the degree that anyone legitimately owns those facilities, we do. We therefore have a perfect “libertarian” right to deny the use of such facilities to people who did not themselves pay (and whose ancestors did not pay) to build those facilities.

    Very few foreigners are going to come to this country if they have to stay off the roads and sidewalks, avoid public transit, stay out of the hospitals, parks, and schools, etc.!

    This seems to be the basic anti-open-borders argument of the libertarians centered around the Mises Institute, enunciated most clearly by the prominent Misesian, Hans Hoppe. The Mises folks are quite clearly “libertarians” by most criteria, indeed quite radical ones: most seem to favor a level of governmental decentralization that would border on anarchy. But they are critics of the open-borders libertarians.

    Of course, it is easy to find self-proclaimed “libertarians” who differ with the Mises crowd, just as it is easy to find self-proclaimed “conservatives” who differ with Sailer, Trump, Coulter, et al.

    I will not try to argue who the real “libertarians” are; I am merely pointing out that assuming that all libertarians are in the open-borders gang is making a mistake.

    Personally, I have taken to using the term “Thoreauist” instead of “libertarian” to describe my own views so as to avoid confusion (I mean the term in the sense of the “Essay on Civil Disobedience”: I have no inclination to live in a cabin out in the woods near a pond).

    Dave Miller in Sacramento

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Personally, I have taken to using the term “Thoreauist” instead of “libertarian” to describe my own views so as to avoid confusion (I mean the term in the sense of the “Essay on Civil Disobedience”: I have no inclination to live in a cabin out in the woods near a pond).
     
    That's good, because a tiny shack in Concord today would be prohibitively expensive.
    , @Anonymous
    It's not just 'paid', in many, many nations, posession of the nation had to be, literally, bought in blood.
  160. @Priss Factor
    http://www.thelocal.at/20160115/schoolgirls-report-abuse-by-young-asylum-seekers

    Arab Spring Break

    I wonder how long it’s going to take for porn versions of the Cologne debacle to appear, involving gangbangs, voyeurism, groping and maybe some scat stuff.

  161. @Veracitor

    “The Mexican government famously published a comic-book guide for wetbacks”

    That claim is scurrilous and obviously false. The guide has a few drawings mixed into the walls of text, but there is no comic narration or story and the drawings contain none of the didactic material. It’s no more a comic book than a new story with a photo is a comic strip.

    And the Mexican migration wave had low literacy rates for walls of text. “They’re not sending their best.”

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    "That claim is scurrilous and obviously false. The guide has a few drawings mixed into the walls of text, but there is no comic narration or story and the drawings contain none of the didactic material. It’s no more a comic book than a new story with a photo is a comic strip."

    So, it is not a comic book guide for illegal aliens; it is in fact a guide for illegal aliens. And for Mexico to publish it and distribute it to thier citizens is a hostile act. So in what sense is Veracitor's claim "scurrilous"?
    , @Brutusale
    Uh, you might want to back off the "scurrilous and obviously false" thing:

    https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/immigration/mexican-booklet.pdf
  162. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    Spartan wrote:

    It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism.
     
    Nobody owns the word "libertarian" and "libertarians" vary just as widely as "conservatives." No one here would lump Steve Sailer in with Marco Rubio or lump Bill Kristol in with Donald Trump, even though the word "conservative" might be applied to all four gentlemen.

    There is in fact a simple "libertarian" argument against open borders: we and our ancestors paid for the public spaces and amenities in this country -- roads, parks, sidewalks, public transportation, hospitals, schools, etc. -- and to the degree that anyone legitimately owns those facilities, we do. We therefore have a perfect "libertarian" right to deny the use of such facilities to people who did not themselves pay (and whose ancestors did not pay) to build those facilities.

    Very few foreigners are going to come to this country if they have to stay off the roads and sidewalks, avoid public transit, stay out of the hospitals, parks, and schools, etc.!

    This seems to be the basic anti-open-borders argument of the libertarians centered around the Mises Institute, enunciated most clearly by the prominent Misesian, Hans Hoppe. The Mises folks are quite clearly "libertarians" by most criteria, indeed quite radical ones: most seem to favor a level of governmental decentralization that would border on anarchy. But they are critics of the open-borders libertarians.

    Of course, it is easy to find self-proclaimed "libertarians" who differ with the Mises crowd, just as it is easy to find self-proclaimed "conservatives" who differ with Sailer, Trump, Coulter, et al.

    I will not try to argue who the real "libertarians" are; I am merely pointing out that assuming that all libertarians are in the open-borders gang is making a mistake.

    Personally, I have taken to using the term "Thoreauist" instead of "libertarian" to describe my own views so as to avoid confusion (I mean the term in the sense of the "Essay on Civil Disobedience": I have no inclination to live in a cabin out in the woods near a pond).

    Dave Miller in Sacramento

    Personally, I have taken to using the term “Thoreauist” instead of “libertarian” to describe my own views so as to avoid confusion (I mean the term in the sense of the “Essay on Civil Disobedience”: I have no inclination to live in a cabin out in the woods near a pond).

    That’s good, because a tiny shack in Concord today would be prohibitively expensive.

  163. Why won’t they write a corollary amendment that says to the effect the “disadvantaged” cannot be made to feel bad? They already do this for federal contracts except rather than covering speech it’s money.

  164. @Steve Sailer
    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he'd be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.

    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he’d be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.

    And more funding for the National Stroke Association. My dog is a belly stroke victim.

  165. @Steve Sailer
    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he'd be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.

    Trump likes to build stuff.

    If a border collie were running for President, he’d be in favor of spending lavishly on SDI to intercept flying saucers because catching frisbees is what he does.

    Damn, you’re good, Steve. That is why we come here: to watch you blow away the fog and reveal the solid core of each phenomenon shining dew-sparkled in the sunlight.

    • Agree: res
  166. Economists have estimated that opening the world’s borders to migration could double world GDP. To get the gist of that number, imagine that your boss walked into your office tomorrow and said, “we’re doubling your salary”—and the same thing happened to everyone else, too.

    What would we all do with the money?
    Buy better food, more cars, better educations for our children, medical care, books, vacations, and other entertainment. We’d take more leisure and patronize the arts more, enjoy more of the charm of life and more of the latest technology, and lead happier, more fulfilling lives.
    In short, higher standards of living.
    These estimates, though admittedly speculative, are actually rather conservative. If the whole world population migrated to the U.S. and earned what Americans earn, world GDP would multiply more than four-fold. That isn’t actually possible, and researchers take that into account in various ways, thus bringing estimates of the impact of open borders down to a mere doubling of world GDP.

    Environmentalists unanimously say that the planet can’t even come close to supporting today’s 7.4 billion and counting people living westernized lifestyles.

    Secondly, “What would we do with all the money?”. This is daft. They predict the gains will go to the current non-westerners who can move en masse to the west. The current western citizens will likely lose, so they won’t have extra money to worry about spending.

    • Replies: @International Jew

    To get the gist of that number, imagine that your boss walked into your office tomorrow and said, “we’re doubling your salary”—and the same thing happened to everyone else, too.
     
    Uh, no. That's what your boss is telling you if you're an Indian or a Nigerian. If you're an American, the message is "We're going to halve your salary because 100 million H1Bs are on their way."

    The math can still work out to a doubled global GDP simply because there are billions of them raising the average and only a few hundred million of us bringing the average down. Let's just not lose sight of who benefits, and who gets hurt.

  167. @PhysicistDave
    Spartan wrote:

    It’s a wonderful vindication of the charge that libertarianism is applied autism.
     
    Nobody owns the word "libertarian" and "libertarians" vary just as widely as "conservatives." No one here would lump Steve Sailer in with Marco Rubio or lump Bill Kristol in with Donald Trump, even though the word "conservative" might be applied to all four gentlemen.

    There is in fact a simple "libertarian" argument against open borders: we and our ancestors paid for the public spaces and amenities in this country -- roads, parks, sidewalks, public transportation, hospitals, schools, etc. -- and to the degree that anyone legitimately owns those facilities, we do. We therefore have a perfect "libertarian" right to deny the use of such facilities to people who did not themselves pay (and whose ancestors did not pay) to build those facilities.

    Very few foreigners are going to come to this country if they have to stay off the roads and sidewalks, avoid public transit, stay out of the hospitals, parks, and schools, etc.!

    This seems to be the basic anti-open-borders argument of the libertarians centered around the Mises Institute, enunciated most clearly by the prominent Misesian, Hans Hoppe. The Mises folks are quite clearly "libertarians" by most criteria, indeed quite radical ones: most seem to favor a level of governmental decentralization that would border on anarchy. But they are critics of the open-borders libertarians.

    Of course, it is easy to find self-proclaimed "libertarians" who differ with the Mises crowd, just as it is easy to find self-proclaimed "conservatives" who differ with Sailer, Trump, Coulter, et al.

    I will not try to argue who the real "libertarians" are; I am merely pointing out that assuming that all libertarians are in the open-borders gang is making a mistake.

    Personally, I have taken to using the term "Thoreauist" instead of "libertarian" to describe my own views so as to avoid confusion (I mean the term in the sense of the "Essay on Civil Disobedience": I have no inclination to live in a cabin out in the woods near a pond).

    Dave Miller in Sacramento

    It’s not just ‘paid’, in many, many nations, posession of the nation had to be, literally, bought in blood.

  168. An economic hitman, who founded the WEF says:

    “Look how many countries in Africa, for example, depend on the income from oil exports,” Schwab said in an interview ahead of the WEF’s 46th annual meeting, in the Swiss resort of Davos. “Now imagine 1 billion inhabitants, imagine they all move north.”

    Use those code words Schwab and try the scare the hell out of us so you can demand more control over our lives…
    “hollowing out the middle class” “Many of our traditional measurements do not work anymore”
    “we have to re-establish a sense that we all are in the same boat” “unexpected consequences” “a substantial social breakdown.”

    Heard this same nonsense after the financial crisis. How come they are not meeting in Africa…you know, spend some cash on the dark continent. Never. Their in Davos, 5 star hotels, 5000 armed troops guarding them as they enjoy their hookers and blow.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-18/wef-boss-schwab-warns-commodities-rout-could-spur-more-migration

  169. @(((Owen)))
    "The Mexican government famously published a comic-book guide for wetbacks"

    That claim is scurrilous and obviously false. The guide has a few drawings mixed into the walls of text, but there is no comic narration or story and the drawings contain none of the didactic material. It's no more a comic book than a new story with a photo is a comic strip.

    And the Mexican migration wave had low literacy rates for walls of text. "They're not sending their best."

    “That claim is scurrilous and obviously false. The guide has a few drawings mixed into the walls of text, but there is no comic narration or story and the drawings contain none of the didactic material. It’s no more a comic book than a new story with a photo is a comic strip.”

    So, it is not a comic book guide for illegal aliens; it is in fact a guide for illegal aliens. And for Mexico to publish it and distribute it to thier citizens is a hostile act. So in what sense is Veracitor’s claim “scurrilous”?

  170. @Cryptogenic
    One-way gene flow. Jewish guys get shiksas. Jewish women get Jewish guys.

    One-way gene flow. Jewish guys get shiksas. Jewish women get Jewish guys.

    That was true in the past, but the intermarriage rate for Jewish men and Jewish women has been at parity since at least 1980.

  171. Looks like “a billion immigrants” is on its way to becoming the new normal.

    “Now imagine 1 billion inhabitants, imagine they all move north.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-18/wef-boss-schwab-warns-commodities-rout-could-spur-more-migration

  172. @Massimo Heitor

    Economists have estimated that opening the world’s borders to migration could double world GDP. To get the gist of that number, imagine that your boss walked into your office tomorrow and said, “we’re doubling your salary”—and the same thing happened to everyone else, too.

    What would we all do with the money?
    Buy better food, more cars, better educations for our children, medical care, books, vacations, and other entertainment. We’d take more leisure and patronize the arts more, enjoy more of the charm of life and more of the latest technology, and lead happier, more fulfilling lives.
    In short, higher standards of living.
    These estimates, though admittedly speculative, are actually rather conservative. If the whole world population migrated to the U.S. and earned what Americans earn, world GDP would multiply more than four-fold. That isn’t actually possible, and researchers take that into account in various ways, thus bringing estimates of the impact of open borders down to a mere doubling of world GDP.
     

    Environmentalists unanimously say that the planet can't even come close to supporting today's 7.4 billion and counting people living westernized lifestyles.

    Secondly, "What would we do with all the money?". This is daft. They predict the gains will go to the current non-westerners who can move en masse to the west. The current western citizens will likely lose, so they won't have extra money to worry about spending.

    To get the gist of that number, imagine that your boss walked into your office tomorrow and said, “we’re doubling your salary”—and the same thing happened to everyone else, too.

    Uh, no. That’s what your boss is telling you if you’re an Indian or a Nigerian. If you’re an American, the message is “We’re going to halve your salary because 100 million H1Bs are on their way.”

    The math can still work out to a doubled global GDP simply because there are billions of them raising the average and only a few hundred million of us bringing the average down. Let’s just not lose sight of who benefits, and who gets hurt.

  173. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The West is confused because it is so fixated on ‘values’.

    But life isn’t only about values. A nation isn’t only about ideas.

    Important decisions must be made, indeed are made all the time, on other considerations.

    Consider two individuals who have exactly the same social and political values.

    Suppose one is a man, another is a woman.

    Their minds agree on social, political, and philosophical issues.

    Suppose the woman wants to marry the guy and live in his house. Suppose she wants him to accept her as partner, co-resident, and spouse.

    Suppose she believes that since they have exactly the same values, she should have the right to barge into his house anytime and demand attention and sex from him. And she should have access to all his property and money.
    After all, they have the same values.

    But suppose he doesn’t want to marry her. Suppose he finds her unattractive and unappealing physically and personality-wise. Suppose he doesn’t want to share his life with her.

    Now, choosing whom to live with and whom to marry is a very important decision in life. But almost no one makes such decisions on values alone.
    Humans are not only about values. We do judge people by looks, personalities, attitudes, and etc. If such is discriminatory, too bad.

    If values should determine everything, everyone should be open to everything on the basis of values. And a man should always choose for wife an ugly woman who shares his values over a beautiful woman whose values diverge from his. But a man may prefer the latter, and of course, we all understand why.

    Some may say he is evil because he’s discriminating against the woman who shares his values on the basis of looks and favoring a woman with different values on the basis of looks. But the fact is looks do matter because we are visual creatures and judge the worth of people and things not only on the basis of values but of looks. It’ s like a German communist may still feel closer to a German rightist than with a Chinese or African communist.

    Now, no one says it is wrong for a man or woman to accept or reject someone on the basis of looks. No one says friendship, love, and marriage must ONLY be about values. We all understand the importance of looks in a man or woman choosing to reject/discriminate against some people while accepting/welcoming others.

    If looks matter to individuals, they also matter to nations.
    A nation is defined by a certain look of its race. People identify each other on the basis of looks. A nation may define itself as ‘white’, ‘asian’, ‘african’, or ‘arab’, and there are prevailing physical features among all those groups.

    So naturally, the people of a nation want to maintain the look of their own race and control immigration to preserve that look.
    Even if two nations have the same values, they may have different looks, and each nation may want to preserve its looks.
    Likewise, two individuals may have the same values, but they may have different preferences in looks. Just because they have the same values doesn’t mean they can barge into each other’s home at any time and demand sex.

    But what is really messed up about the West is it is opening up to countless hordes who don’t even share the same values as the West. They look different AND have different values.

    West is nuts.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Humans are not only about values. We do judge people by looks, personalities, attitudes, and etc.
     
    If we so judge, then those are values, by definition.

    If such is discriminatory, too bad.
     
    Again, any criterion by which you discriminate is itself a value.
  174. @Anon
    The West is confused because it is so fixated on 'values'.

    But life isn't only about values. A nation isn't only about ideas.

    Important decisions must be made, indeed are made all the time, on other considerations.

    Consider two individuals who have exactly the same social and political values.

    Suppose one is a man, another is a woman.

    Their minds agree on social, political, and philosophical issues.

    Suppose the woman wants to marry the guy and live in his house. Suppose she wants him to accept her as partner, co-resident, and spouse.

    Suppose she believes that since they have exactly the same values, she should have the right to barge into his house anytime and demand attention and sex from him. And she should have access to all his property and money.
    After all, they have the same values.

    But suppose he doesn't want to marry her. Suppose he finds her unattractive and unappealing physically and personality-wise. Suppose he doesn't want to share his life with her.

    Now, choosing whom to live with and whom to marry is a very important decision in life. But almost no one makes such decisions on values alone.
    Humans are not only about values. We do judge people by looks, personalities, attitudes, and etc. If such is discriminatory, too bad.

    If values should determine everything, everyone should be open to everything on the basis of values. And a man should always choose for wife an ugly woman who shares his values over a beautiful woman whose values diverge from his. But a man may prefer the latter, and of course, we all understand why.

    Some may say he is evil because he's discriminating against the woman who shares his values on the basis of looks and favoring a woman with different values on the basis of looks. But the fact is looks do matter because we are visual creatures and judge the worth of people and things not only on the basis of values but of looks. It' s like a German communist may still feel closer to a German rightist than with a Chinese or African communist.

    Now, no one says it is wrong for a man or woman to accept or reject someone on the basis of looks. No one says friendship, love, and marriage must ONLY be about values. We all understand the importance of looks in a man or woman choosing to reject/discriminate against some people while accepting/welcoming others.

    If looks matter to individuals, they also matter to nations.
    A nation is defined by a certain look of its race. People identify each other on the basis of looks. A nation may define itself as 'white', 'asian', 'african', or 'arab', and there are prevailing physical features among all those groups.

    So naturally, the people of a nation want to maintain the look of their own race and control immigration to preserve that look.
    Even if two nations have the same values, they may have different looks, and each nation may want to preserve its looks.
    Likewise, two individuals may have the same values, but they may have different preferences in looks. Just because they have the same values doesn't mean they can barge into each other's home at any time and demand sex.

    But what is really messed up about the West is it is opening up to countless hordes who don't even share the same values as the West. They look different AND have different values.

    West is nuts.

    Humans are not only about values. We do judge people by looks, personalities, attitudes, and etc.

    If we so judge, then those are values, by definition.

    If such is discriminatory, too bad.

    Again, any criterion by which you discriminate is itself a value.

  175. @anonymous
    Today, here in the Bay Area, I had a conversation with an old friend (an American-born East Indian Hindu) about German/European immigration policies. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “You people are idiots!”


    Never, never, underestimate the hatred some very high IQ Hindus have for Moslems. And not some historical "in the past hate", but an up-to-date "right now" hate. Some of the few displays that I've seen in my life directly that I'd consider to cross the line to honest full "the only good... is a dead..." thinking have been by high IQ Hindus in silicon valley, when speaking of Moslems. I guess they got immivaded and didn't appreciate it. Maybe sometimes there's little you can do about it after the fact but hate. Welcome to the brave new world.

    It isn’t hatred but prudence. I can’t imagine any Western statesman from a bygone age reacting differently to this. What Merkel is doing would be considered stupid and insane by any sane, sensible person. Of course, the fact that Hindu Indians don’t get the PC brainwashing while growing up in India does “help” in seeing things more clearly. This, of course, does not prevent them from having good personal relations with some decent individual Muslims in their own life – and life is always complicated, never binary.

    Also, India has a long bloody history with Islam which had periods of brutal persecution of all non-Muslims by Muslims, periods of relative quiet and some brief periods of mutual respect and toleration. However, the brutality of the Muslim rulers and, in a more democratic time, of Muslim mobs when they found themselves to be the majority, is a consistent theme throughout history. And Indians are becoming more conscious of their history than they used to be.

    It is also incorrect to call this “race consciousness”. This isn’t really about race as most Hindus would consider White Chechens as much of a problem as the Black Boko Haram types (which indeed they are – although they would readily concede that the White Chechens would probably make better fighters).

  176. @(((Owen)))
    "The Mexican government famously published a comic-book guide for wetbacks"

    That claim is scurrilous and obviously false. The guide has a few drawings mixed into the walls of text, but there is no comic narration or story and the drawings contain none of the didactic material. It's no more a comic book than a new story with a photo is a comic strip.

    And the Mexican migration wave had low literacy rates for walls of text. "They're not sending their best."

    Uh, you might want to back off the “scurrilous and obviously false” thing:

    https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/immigration/mexican-booklet.pdf

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    That's not a comic book. It's a regular book with a few drawings. If you can't tell the difference, take a copy to your local comic book store and they'll explain it to you.
  177. @Brutusale
    Uh, you might want to back off the "scurrilous and obviously false" thing:

    https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/immigration/mexican-booklet.pdf

    That’s not a comic book. It’s a regular book with a few drawings. If you can’t tell the difference, take a copy to your local comic book store and they’ll explain it to you.

  178. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @helena
    "Ashkenazis are a result of Jewish men in Rome marrying Gentile women?"

    Indeed, previously known as Italian women.

    I would really like to know more about these women/marriages.

    I'm guessing that since the Ashkenazi moved north, that the group may have been ostracised by both Italian and Jewish communities in Rome.

    Italian Jews, including modern Roman Jews, are very similar to Ashkenazi Jews in population genetics studies. There is no good reason to expect that the modern Roman Jewish community lacks the ancient (mostly) Italian admixture found in Ashkenazi Jews. Movement north followed economic opportunity. Many of the people who moved were traders after all.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS