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American-Born Latinos Have Been Hammered Economically
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From Pew Research Center:

On the surface, a similar recovery appears to be underway for Latino workers.2 Their median personal income rose 5% from 2007 to 2017. But the overall gain masks a sharp contrast in the experiences of U.S.-born Latinos – whose incomes in 2017 were 6% less than in 2007 – and of foreign-born Latinos, whose incomes were 14% higher than in 2007, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data. …

Demographic change, not the economic recovery, is the major driver of the gains for Latino immigrants. A slowdown in Latin American immigration led to a steep rise in the share who have lived in the United States for at least 10 years.

In other words, Latino immigrants messed up badly during the Housing Bubble, so some went home and newcomers stayed away for a number of years until the Central American flood got going about a half-decade ago. Fewer new immigrants means immigrants will have higher average incomes.

But, American-born Latinos aren’t particularly assimilating toward economic parity, which is bad news for America’s long run. You have fewer ethnic tensions if different ethnicities achieve about the same. There’s not much evidence that future generations of Latinos will reach equality of achievement.

The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.

 
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  1. I am going to go out on a limb here and absorb some opprobrium. But, I would guess that number is severely underreported given the reality that many Latino immigrants work cash jobs and vastly underreport their income on taxes.

    While this is a self-reported item on a voluntary survey, I could imagine they are told by friends to always underreport regardless of who is asking.

    That said, even if the income were double, they would still be a massive tax/resource drain on our nation.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @William Middleton
    I agree that this is true for immigrant Hispanics as they work disproportionately in cash businesses. However, this proves the point that their children are not catching up as they are definitely less likely to work in these businesses and does show that they are stagnating.
  2. Cesar Chavez understood all this.

    • Agree: Dave Pinsen
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Cesar Chavez understood all this.
     
    That's why, unlike the "Minutemen", he and his gang carried guns at the border.
    , @AnotherDad

    Cesar Chavez understood all this.
     
    Everyone used to understand it. Business and labor alike.

    As Steve puts it ...

    The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.
     

    ... it's "obvious".


    It would be absolutely remarkable how insane the immigration proganda is in denying the most basic economic concept of "supply and demand" ... except for how absolutely insane and ridiculous everything else the establishment spews out--minoritarianism, holy blacks, LGBQWERTY, guys with dicks in the girls locker room, "nation of immigrants", "diversity is our strength", "rising anti-semitism", "structural racism", "Russia hacked the election" and of course now open borders.

    When everything the establishment says is crazy, repealing "supply and demand" becomes just ho-hum, small-beer.

  3. But Ron Unz says US-born Latinos have low crime. This, in spite of their low incomes.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    But Ron Unz says US-born Latinos have low crime.
     
    He probably means as measured by average height.
  4. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.

    Yes, Hispanic on Hispanic racism is a big, big thing. Big, Andy. (In addition to this snark, “Hispanic” is supposedly not an adjective for a race, somewhat disingenuously.)

    BTW, nothing about all 3 of those graphs is anything to write home about … home to El Salvador, that is … if you can write. Seriously, this is based on the official CPI, which is pretty damn bogus. All shown in the graph are losing absolute ground, but especially (obviously) those born in America.

  5. This NYT article from 10 years ago should be required reading about this. Tl;dr: legal Salvadoran immigrants brought to suburban DC after the civil war there; they work low skill jobs. Their kids don’t want to work those jobs, but don’t have the chops for better ones, so they assimilate into a black-like underclass.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    Here is a NY Times op-ed from 19 years ago. On February 22, 2000, they published "Hasty Call for Amnesty". For brevity I only included the following excerpt. The entire piece, not much longer, is a must read for anyone concerned about this issue. The argument they laid out then is just as valid today.

    The A.F.L.-C.I.O.'s call for the government to grant amnesty to an estimated six million illegal immigrants currently living in the United States and to eliminate most sanctions on employers who hire them in the future was a surprising turnabout. Until now, organized labor has fought hard to keep illegal workers from taking jobs from higher-paid union workers.

    The A.F.L.-C.I.O.'s proposal is attractive to many groups. Unions welcome the chance to go after a huge new pool of unorganized workers. Employers welcome the chance to hire cheap labor without fear of criminal liability. And illegal immigrants who have worked hard for years and raised families under harrowing circumstances would welcome access to medical care and other services denied to illegal aliens.

    But the A.F.L.-C.I.O.'s proposal should be rejected. Amnesty would undermine the integrity of the country's immigration laws and would depress the wages of its lowest-paid native-born workers.
     

  6. The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration.

    Not a few of them voted for Trump, many for this reason.

  7. Crack down on illegal immigration? US born Latinxes might have it tough, but they live like kinxes compared to Latinxes born in the rest of the Americas.

    • Replies: @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    Than the lower classes, sure. But when they're not getting mugged on their way back from the mall, upper middle class Latinos in Latin America live like Kings compared to anyone but extremely wealthy Americans.
  8. The only way the “all Hispanics” line could converge with the “US born Hispanics” line is for the “foreign born” line to get zero weight.

    The graph simply cannot be right.

  9. I’m sure you mean household income. If husband and wife illegals were bringing home $50000/yr or more, they’d be solidly middle class which they obviously aren’t…

  10. The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.

    Where do I begin?

    The racism thing is a problem. As soon as the r-word is uttered, simple mind*s shut off and really simple minds** think they have achieved victory. If I could wave a magic wand, I would and have it do this: Have every talking head discussion on black grou behavior begin with the definition, “Racism is when one racial group, us blacks, assumes a stereotypical behavior on the part of another, such as whites. The war on Beckys is a prime example.”

    Every. Single. Time.

    Latinos is like Europeans or Muslims.
    There are British and there are French.
    There are Germans and there are Greeks.
    There are Saudis and there are Syrians.
    There are Shia Iranians and there are Indonesian Sunnis.

    There are Puerto Ricans and there are Mexicans.

    From what I have witnessed, Mexicans have adopted a strategy similar to Christian Syrian/Lebanese; assimilate, assimilate, accumulate wealth and become capital owning entrepreneurs, assimilate.

    Puerto Ricans, in my experience, are more like Arab Muslim immigrants, attempting to force the US to become more like them.

    *Mainstream liberals
    **SSA

  11. Great article in Samuel Huntington’s Foreign Policy on Hispanic immigration to the US:

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/28/the-hispanic-challenge/

    Contributions from immigrant cultures modified and enriched the Anglo-Protestant culture of the founding settlers. The essentials of that founding culture remained the bedrock of U.S. identity, however, at least until the last decades of the 20th century. Would the United States be the country that it has been and that it largely remains today if it had been settled in the 17th and 18th centuries not by British Protestants but by French, Spanish, or Portuguese Catholics? The answer is clearly no. It would not be the United States; it would be Quebec, Mexico, or Brazil.

    It’s a long article but a great read. As Huntington warned, we are turning into Mexico (or Central America).

  12. @The Alarmist
    Crack down on illegal immigration? US born Latinxes might have it tough, but they live like kinxes compared to Latinxes born in the rest of the Americas.

    Than the lower classes, sure. But when they’re not getting mugged on their way back from the mall, upper middle class Latinos in Latin America live like Kings compared to anyone but extremely wealthy Americans.

  13. The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.

    The most obvious thing for latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to get off their butts and become immigration restrictionists like the rest of us. Instead of quietly allowing Conquistador Americans to speak on their behalf as property of the democrat party, maybe they should start to agitate for less immigration.

    Cesar Chavez led protests along the border to prevent illegals from gaining entry.

    In 1973, the United Farm Workers set up a “wet line” along the United States-Mexico border to prevent Mexican immigrants from entering the United States illegally and potentially undermining the UFW’s unionization efforts.[24] During one such event, in which Chavez was not involved, some UFW members, under the guidance of Chavez’s cousin Manuel, physically attacked the strikebreakers after peaceful attempts to persuade them not to cross the border failed.[25][26][27]

    American born latinos need to start acting like American citizens and start to get involved on issues that affect them, not recreate the peonage system of latin America where they throw all their support behind some big Conquistador type who promises them a steady stream of crumbs. FFS, they know Canada and the USA are heads and shoulders above anything they created in latin America. Why don’t they open their eyes and start to figure out why?

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
    A good policy would be "take in a few immigrants, but treat them well". Instead of having mass immigration and taking advantage of those who come to North America.
  14. @Dave Pinsen
    This NYT article from 10 years ago should be required reading about this. Tl;dr: legal Salvadoran immigrants brought to suburban DC after the civil war there; they work low skill jobs. Their kids don’t want to work those jobs, but don’t have the chops for better ones, so they assimilate into a black-like underclass.


    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/951602103964913664?s=21

    Here is a NY Times op-ed from 19 years ago. On February 22, 2000, they published “Hasty Call for Amnesty”. For brevity I only included the following excerpt. The entire piece, not much longer, is a must read for anyone concerned about this issue. The argument they laid out then is just as valid today.

    The A.F.L.-C.I.O.’s call for the government to grant amnesty to an estimated six million illegal immigrants currently living in the United States and to eliminate most sanctions on employers who hire them in the future was a surprising turnabout. Until now, organized labor has fought hard to keep illegal workers from taking jobs from higher-paid union workers.

    The A.F.L.-C.I.O.’s proposal is attractive to many groups. Unions welcome the chance to go after a huge new pool of unorganized workers. Employers welcome the chance to hire cheap labor without fear of criminal liability. And illegal immigrants who have worked hard for years and raised families under harrowing circumstances would welcome access to medical care and other services denied to illegal aliens.

    But the A.F.L.-C.I.O.’s proposal should be rejected. Amnesty would undermine the integrity of the country’s immigration laws and would depress the wages of its lowest-paid native-born workers.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Apparently, aflcio is Italian dialect for "Judas goat".
  15. This graph essentially shows that relative to US natives in the unskilled and semiskilled labor markets, illegal immigrant hispanics had a much better recovery during the Obama years. Presumably they made gains on blacks as well, hispanics’ main rival for the grunt labor market.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    '...Presumably they made gains on blacks as well, hispanics’ main rival for the grunt labor market.'

    ? Speaking as someone who employed 'grunt labor' from 1990 to about 2008, blacks are pretty few and far between in the market. The competition's long been primarily between Hispanics and unskilled whites.
  16. ‘…The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist…’

    It’s kind of bleakly amusing to realize that’s the position Cesar Chavez started out with. The US government needed to end the availability of an infinite supply of illegal farm labor. Only then could farm labor unions force the growers to the table.

    …but his white advisors talked him out of that. And Cesar Chavez died a failure.

  17. @Uilleam Yr Alban
    This graph essentially shows that relative to US natives in the unskilled and semiskilled labor markets, illegal immigrant hispanics had a much better recovery during the Obama years. Presumably they made gains on blacks as well, hispanics' main rival for the grunt labor market.

    ‘…Presumably they made gains on blacks as well, hispanics’ main rival for the grunt labor market.’

    ? Speaking as someone who employed ‘grunt labor’ from 1990 to about 2008, blacks are pretty few and far between in the market. The competition’s long been primarily between Hispanics and unskilled whites.

    • Replies: @William Middleton
    In your opinion, in percentage terms, how much are low skilled whites incomes being suppressed by continual illegal immigration? 10%? 15%?
  18. @Seth Largo
    Cesar Chavez understood all this.

    Cesar Chavez understood all this.

    That’s why, unlike the “Minutemen”, he and his gang carried guns at the border.

  19. Latinos used to be pretty diverse group ranging from doctors to stoop laborers. Now they tend to be the dregs of Latin America because an educated Mexican or South American can make a decent living at home.

    Its interesting that so called ‘asylum seekers’ are uniformly lower class mestizos from Central America. This is not how political oppression normally works. It is usually the middle and upper classes that flee repressive regimes and the proletariat is left to cope with the leftwing regimes they put in power. Rightwing/military governments don’t generally bother with arresting or oppressing nobodies save to make an example of leftist union leaders or student activists. They might shoot some criminals in a bid to get the support of the poor as Brazil’s Balsonaro promises or the Philippines Dutarte does but that is about it.

    • Replies: @William Middleton
    Do you think that will eventually happen with Asians and Indians? I could see China start cracking down on sending best and brightest overseas.
  20. @istevefan
    Here is a NY Times op-ed from 19 years ago. On February 22, 2000, they published "Hasty Call for Amnesty". For brevity I only included the following excerpt. The entire piece, not much longer, is a must read for anyone concerned about this issue. The argument they laid out then is just as valid today.

    The A.F.L.-C.I.O.'s call for the government to grant amnesty to an estimated six million illegal immigrants currently living in the United States and to eliminate most sanctions on employers who hire them in the future was a surprising turnabout. Until now, organized labor has fought hard to keep illegal workers from taking jobs from higher-paid union workers.

    The A.F.L.-C.I.O.'s proposal is attractive to many groups. Unions welcome the chance to go after a huge new pool of unorganized workers. Employers welcome the chance to hire cheap labor without fear of criminal liability. And illegal immigrants who have worked hard for years and raised families under harrowing circumstances would welcome access to medical care and other services denied to illegal aliens.

    But the A.F.L.-C.I.O.'s proposal should be rejected. Amnesty would undermine the integrity of the country's immigration laws and would depress the wages of its lowest-paid native-born workers.
     

    Apparently, aflcio is Italian dialect for “Judas goat”.

  21. @istevefan

    The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.
     
    The most obvious thing for latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to get off their butts and become immigration restrictionists like the rest of us. Instead of quietly allowing Conquistador Americans to speak on their behalf as property of the democrat party, maybe they should start to agitate for less immigration.

    Cesar Chavez led protests along the border to prevent illegals from gaining entry.

    In 1973, the United Farm Workers set up a "wet line" along the United States-Mexico border to prevent Mexican immigrants from entering the United States illegally and potentially undermining the UFW's unionization efforts.[24] During one such event, in which Chavez was not involved, some UFW members, under the guidance of Chavez's cousin Manuel, physically attacked the strikebreakers after peaceful attempts to persuade them not to cross the border failed.[25][26][27]
     
    American born latinos need to start acting like American citizens and start to get involved on issues that affect them, not recreate the peonage system of latin America where they throw all their support behind some big Conquistador type who promises them a steady stream of crumbs. FFS, they know Canada and the USA are heads and shoulders above anything they created in latin America. Why don't they open their eyes and start to figure out why?

    A good policy would be “take in a few immigrants, but treat them well”. Instead of having mass immigration and taking advantage of those who come to North America.

  22. Mexican-born “Latinos” get hammered quite literally:

    SAN JUAN DE LA VEGA, MEXICO
    Festival of the Exploding Hammers
    There is nothing like a religious festival celebrated with blow-up sledgehammers.

    Lent is ending, but this makes you eager for next year’s to come.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
  23. @Thomm
    But Ron Unz says US-born Latinos have low crime. This, in spite of their low incomes.

    But Ron Unz says US-born Latinos have low crime.

    He probably means as measured by average height.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  24. @Reg Cæsar
    Mexican-born "Latinos" get hammered quite literally:

    SAN JUAN DE LA VEGA, MEXICO
    Festival of the Exploding Hammers
    There is nothing like a religious festival celebrated with blow-up sledgehammers.


    https://youtu.be/EMbHGUjTQZA


    https://youtu.be/4Iz3qz8OD9g


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ojEZUe-Fiw


    Lent is ending, but this makes you eager for next year's to come.

    Thanks.

  25. Well, infants born to illegal aliens currently in the US are citizens, you see. We cannot send them back. They are Americans and belong in the US. It would be immoral to deport them and even worse, I might feel guilty about it later. And I’d rather have a clear conscience than save the country from ruin.

  26. @Yak-15
    I am going to go out on a limb here and absorb some opprobrium. But, I would guess that number is severely underreported given the reality that many Latino immigrants work cash jobs and vastly underreport their income on taxes.

    While this is a self-reported item on a voluntary survey, I could imagine they are told by friends to always underreport regardless of who is asking.

    That said, even if the income were double, they would still be a massive tax/resource drain on our nation.

    I agree that this is true for immigrant Hispanics as they work disproportionately in cash businesses. However, this proves the point that their children are not catching up as they are definitely less likely to work in these businesses and does show that they are stagnating.

  27. @unit472
    Latinos used to be pretty diverse group ranging from doctors to stoop laborers. Now they tend to be the dregs of Latin America because an educated Mexican or South American can make a decent living at home.

    Its interesting that so called 'asylum seekers' are uniformly lower class mestizos from Central America. This is not how political oppression normally works. It is usually the middle and upper classes that flee repressive regimes and the proletariat is left to cope with the leftwing regimes they put in power. Rightwing/military governments don't generally bother with arresting or oppressing nobodies save to make an example of leftist union leaders or student activists. They might shoot some criminals in a bid to get the support of the poor as Brazil's Balsonaro promises or the Philippines Dutarte does but that is about it.

    Do you think that will eventually happen with Asians and Indians? I could see China start cracking down on sending best and brightest overseas.

  28. @Colin Wright
    '...Presumably they made gains on blacks as well, hispanics’ main rival for the grunt labor market.'

    ? Speaking as someone who employed 'grunt labor' from 1990 to about 2008, blacks are pretty few and far between in the market. The competition's long been primarily between Hispanics and unskilled whites.

    In your opinion, in percentage terms, how much are low skilled whites incomes being suppressed by continual illegal immigration? 10%? 15%?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    'In your opinion, in percentage terms, how much are low skilled whites incomes being suppressed by continual illegal immigration? 10%? 15%?'

    You picked the right guy to ask!

    As it happened, I used to operate my own interstate moving business...so I'd pick up helpers in the San Francisco Bay Area, load the truck, drive to wherever, pick up another helper, and unload the truck.

    Now, one very common run was from the Bay Area to Portland-Seattle. This being about twenty years ago, the great brown tide had inundated the Bay Area, but not the Northwest. I'd say all things considered, the cost of living back then in the Northwest would have been a good 20-30% less than it was in the Bay Area -- so the going wage should have also been lower.

    It was higher. I could get a helper for $10 an hour in the Bay Area -- but up in the Northwest, I'd have to pay $12-15 an hour. Logically, if a helper cost $12-15 in the Northwest, he should have cost -- oh -- about $18 an hour in the Bay Area -- not $10.

    So -- going by this -- I'd say low-skilled whites' income has been depressed by 40% or so.

    Incidentally, this is confirmed by my experience since. When I retired, I moved up to Southern Oregon. There are very few Hispanics around here. Now, things in general are a lot cheaper, but if, say, you want a gardener or a painter or some dude to hang dry wall for you, well, back in the San Francisco Bay Area, you could find a perfectly competent Hispanic to do it for $100 a day. Up here, dude wants to have a house to live in too -- and he's going to want at least $200 a day.

  29. How would anybody know their income? Hispanics work in the underground economy off the books for the hispandering SJW cheap labor crowd. Cry me a Rio Grande river.

  30. @Seth Largo
    Cesar Chavez understood all this.

    Cesar Chavez understood all this.

    Everyone used to understand it. Business and labor alike.

    As Steve puts it …

    The most obvious thing to do for Latinos who are our fellow American citizens is to lessen the economic competition they face from illegal sources by cracking down on illegal immigration. But as Democrats and billionaires keep telling us, that would be racist.

    … it’s “obvious”.

    It would be absolutely remarkable how insane the immigration proganda is in denying the most basic economic concept of “supply and demand” … except for how absolutely insane and ridiculous everything else the establishment spews out–minoritarianism, holy blacks, LGBQWERTY, guys with dicks in the girls locker room, “nation of immigrants”, “diversity is our strength”, “rising anti-semitism”, “structural racism”, “Russia hacked the election” and of course now open borders.

    When everything the establishment says is crazy, repealing “supply and demand” becomes just ho-hum, small-beer.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
  31. @William Middleton
    In your opinion, in percentage terms, how much are low skilled whites incomes being suppressed by continual illegal immigration? 10%? 15%?

    ‘In your opinion, in percentage terms, how much are low skilled whites incomes being suppressed by continual illegal immigration? 10%? 15%?’

    You picked the right guy to ask!

    As it happened, I used to operate my own interstate moving business…so I’d pick up helpers in the San Francisco Bay Area, load the truck, drive to wherever, pick up another helper, and unload the truck.

    Now, one very common run was from the Bay Area to Portland-Seattle. This being about twenty years ago, the great brown tide had inundated the Bay Area, but not the Northwest. I’d say all things considered, the cost of living back then in the Northwest would have been a good 20-30% less than it was in the Bay Area — so the going wage should have also been lower.

    It was higher. I could get a helper for $10 an hour in the Bay Area — but up in the Northwest, I’d have to pay $12-15 an hour. Logically, if a helper cost $12-15 in the Northwest, he should have cost — oh — about $18 an hour in the Bay Area — not $10.

    So — going by this — I’d say low-skilled whites’ income has been depressed by 40% or so.

    Incidentally, this is confirmed by my experience since. When I retired, I moved up to Southern Oregon. There are very few Hispanics around here. Now, things in general are a lot cheaper, but if, say, you want a gardener or a painter or some dude to hang dry wall for you, well, back in the San Francisco Bay Area, you could find a perfectly competent Hispanic to do it for $100 a day. Up here, dude wants to have a house to live in too — and he’s going to want at least $200 a day.

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