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Almost No Baby Boomers Were Famous During the Sixties
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The Baby Boom is usually dated 1946 to c. 1964. While the spike in births in the U.S. can be dated precisely to 1946, there’s no obvious end date to this famous generation: fertility fell throughout the 1960s, so although 1964 is usually chosen, that date, like most in generational thinking other than 1946, is arbitrary. (In Britain, the Baby Boom was much less of a thing: there was a spike in births in 1946, but then births didn’t go up again until good times finally arrived in the late 1950s.)

By those 1946-1964 dates, just about everybody who was famous during the Sixties was not a Baby Boomer:

Rock stars born during Baby Boom (1946-c. 1964) and a big deal at Woodstock (August 1969) are pretty limited in number. I can find:

– Keith Moon of The Who, the co-headliners with Hendrix, born 1946
– Carlos Santana, 1947
– Bob Weir of Grateful Dead, 1947
– Edgar Winter, 1946

I’m sure there were others, but not many. Most Woodstock stars were born during WWII years (1939-1945).

If Led Zeppelin had accepted their invitation, three of the four musicians (all except Jimmy Page), would have been Baby Boomers. But Led Zeppelin is more associated with the Seventies rather than the Sixties.

Other Baby Boomers who were famous during the 1960s include athletes O.J. Simpson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Peggy Fleming, Reggie Jackson, and Johnny Bench (although Bench didn’t become a superstar until his 148 RBI 1970 season).

Perhaps the first American born during the late Baby Boom to become famous was Michael Jackson (b. 1958). The Jackson 5’s electrifying single I Want You Back was released in October 1969, but didn’t reach #1 until January 1970.

 
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  1. Nathan says:

    Well, isn’t that because they would have been children at the time? Boomer child actors Sally Field and Kurt Russell spring to mind as boomers that were famous during the baby boom.

  2. There is a guy who considers the Baby Boomers to be 1940-60. Birthrates started to climb during the war, and tailed off after 1960.

  3. @Redneck farmer

    1940-1960 would probably fit cultural history better.

    Most generational concepts are made up by marketing guys, who care about quantity rather than quality.

  4. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    I Want You Back doesn’t get enough consideration for best pop song ever.

    it’s as strong a contender as anything else imo.

  5. What about Little Stevie Wonder?

  6. The corollary, of course, is that almost none of the musicians who performed at Woodstock were under 25.

    That kind of sticks out now, since its been so long since that era—even five years earlier, a music show like the T.A.M.I. show had a bunch of young twenty-somethings singing their new kind of music.

    It becomes more comprehensible if we remind ourselves that the rock “revolution” of the mid to late 1960s was created by a group of bands whose sound grew and metamorphosed over the course of the decade. The Beatles went from their distinctive pop sound of 1962 to something more serious by 1966. The folkie type bands of 1965, such as the Byrds or Jefferson Airplane, developed a much harder, more electric sound by 1967.

    Virtually all the big new bands that began to break in that period from roughly 1966 onward were bands that had been around for a while, and found their style in the new rock sound.

    Older musicians defining a new popular sound isn’t unusual though. Both Bill Haley and Chuck Berry were nearly 30 before they made it big. That’s true of most of the black musicians of the early rock ‘n’ roll era. Elvis was one of a handful of exceptions making it big at 21.

    • Replies: @Carol
  7. Anonymous[268] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nathan

    Well, isn’t that because they would have been children at the time? Boomer child actors Sally Field and Kurt Russell spring to mind as boomers that were famous during the baby boom.

    True enough, but the thing is boomers see themselves as the active creators of the 60s when they were mostly the receptive audience.

    To be sure, like what Tom Brokaw did with BOOM, we could expand the boomer phenom to those who were born during the war as well. They hardly had any memory of depression and war and spent their childhood in post war prosperity.

    Now, did the boomers did as much for the 70s what the pre-boomers did for the 60s?

    I don’t think so though some will mention punk rock. I think they really made their mark in the 80s, at least for a moment as the mid 80s were essentially the halcyon days of Rock culture..

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    , @Charon
    , @Nathan
    , @Icy Blast
  8. Kronos says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Howe and Strauss make a very good case for that in this book. (I understand they possess marketing backgrounds but they raise good questions and observations.)

    https://www.amazon.com/13th-Gen-Abort-Retry-Ignore/dp/0679743650

    If you were still in grade school during the 1960s you missed the fun. The “war babies” make a better fit into the Baby Boom by simply being closer via life cycle. People who are 5 years apart often have more in common than those who are 12-14 years apart. The 1960-1964 cohort were involved in growing up in the 1970s, apparently the least child-friendly decade in living memory.

    But I’m sure there were PLENDY of soon-to-be famous Boomers working behind the scenes during the 1960s. There’s plenty of evidence of “Boomer swarms” at Woodstock and Ashbury. There may have been a shortage of captains riding the waves but there were many waves.

    • Replies: @Lot
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  9. Janet Lennon’s fame began in 1955, appearing with her pre-“boom” sisters on Lawrence Welk’s show. The Osmond Brothers were touted on Andy Williams specials. The Cowsills and Bee Gees had arrived on the scene by 1967. Having a family behind you helps!

    Lisa Minelli was a Broadway veteran and starred in 1969’s The Sterile Cuckoo. Patty Duke, Sally Field, Hayley Mills, Lesley Gore. In England, Cat Stevens was an established star, as was Stevie Winwood.

    In sports, George Best, Johan Cruyff, Bobby Orr…

    This whole “boom” thing is pretty arbitrary. Susannah McCorkle, born on the very first day, qualifies. Her discography begins around 1980.

    Davy Jones was born two days earlier. No “boomer”, he!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Anonymous
  10. I don’t mean to bore everyone with the bleedin’ obvious, but perhaps it needs to be said.

    “Conventional wisdom” does not associate the Boomers with the civil rights era because they were the active agents in effecting it, but because they made much hay out of it when they came to power. They’ve made entire careers out of the protest movement they were never originally a part of, and they enforce a culture of PC compliance that is reflected in the workplaces they manage, the schools they administer, and the media they consume and produce.

    It’s all part of the “Constant Boomer Moment” that I’ve referred to several times before. This is why the Rolling Stones are still touring and why the Vietnam War “feels” like it only ended maybe 15 or 20 years ago when it’s actually more like 50. The Boomers own and monopolize the culture. The rest of us are just urchins.

  11. Seems like a lot of the late sixties civil rights types were born in the 1930s and would have developed their political views during the late 40s and early 1950s. The political messages around this time would have been – Hitler bad, Stalin bad, UN good.

    This would certainly tie in with the declining interest in economic socialism/populism and the increasing interest in liberal social values and globalist causes that occurred in the mid to late 60s.

    • Replies: @conatus
  12. Lot says:
    @Kronos

    “the 1970s, apparently the least child-friendly decade in living memory”

    The 1965-72 birth cohorts got the worst lead poisoning.

  13. @anonymous

    I Want You Back might have the most thrilling opening in pop history.

    I can recall Graham Parker and the Rumour playing it as their encore at the Santa Monica Civic in about 1980. They were having major equipment problems with their sound, but that made up for their troubles.

    It was one of the later songs on which Motown founder Berry Gordy took a songwriting credit.

    On the other hand, I Want You Back doesn’t get better as it goes on. It doesn’t quite fulfill the promise of its opening 45 seconds. On the gripping hand, what could?

    By the way, from Wikipedia:

    “The first Berry Gordy was the son of a white plantation owner, James Gordy, in Georgia and his female slave. His half-brother, James, was the grandfather of President Jimmy Carter.”

  14. Lot says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Nah, all evidence is each post-boomer generation has embraced Cultural Marxism more than the prior one.

    If only boomers could vote, Trump would have won a landslide.

    • Replies: @International Jew
    , @Feryl
  15. @Reg Cæsar

    Jimmy Page was on TV in a skiffle band at age 14.

  16. @Steve Sailer

    “Ain’t Too Proud to Beg” by the Temptations is another contender for the greatest opening in pop-rock history:

    Like “I Want You Back” it doesn’t really develop.

    In contrast, the later Temptations hit “Just My Imagination” develops beautifully:

    Here’s an extremely different version that also succeeds:

    • Replies: @donut
  17. At 13, in 1963, Little Stevie Wonder was the youngest recording artist ever to reach number one on Billboard’s Hot 100 with a live recording of Fingertips. This seems to be a later version.

    As for catchy openings, I’ll offer up this 1967 Motown Wonder hit:

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    , @Jim Don Bob
  18. Some economic leftists argue that neoliberalism, not flower power, is the main ideological legacy of baby boomers. They certainly grew up during an era of high economic security (leading to right wing economic views) and were the right age to cash in during the economic deregulation of the 80s and 90s.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia, Feryl
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    , @Hopscotch
  19. TTSSYF says:
    @Anonymous

    …boomers see themselves as the active creators of the 60s…

    If they do, it’s because, when most people think of the “1960s”, they’re thinking of about 1968 and on.

  20. Charon says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Wow about the Jimmy Carter connection.

    “I Want You Back” does have a knockout intro, but I think the Turtles’ “Happy Together” is a more perfect confection.

    Speaking of which, I had to grow up before I took “Sugar Sugar” seriously as a piece of music. Delete all its (considerable) baggage and you’re left with an insanely catchy earworm.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  21. Charon says:
    @Anonymous

    So what was the ideal year to have been born? The trick is avoiding our various wars, while still partaking of the glorious 50s (and early 60s). Sounds like the ideal birthdate might have been in the late 30s, but was anyone even having babies then?

    Then again, from what I’ve read it seems like it was easy enough to avoid Vietnam so long as you were in school, and I’d dearly love to have tried some of those pharmaceuticals they had going around back then.

  22. @alt right moderate

    This sounds right. Silicon Valley libertarianism won over a lot of them. They didn’t have to be boring, old style technocrats, they could just wear jeans and white sneakers, talk about the “wisdom of crowds” and the world would figure itself out, apart from Africa. Africa needed special attention. Everything else would nicely fall into place though, if we just let consumers choose and markets self-regulate. “China gets it! Have you seen it lately? You can get banana ice cream delivered to your hotel room at 4 am over there!”.

  23. And despite being the biggest cohort in history, the baby boom produced no one who would be placed in the top 100 American novelists.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  24. JMcG says:

    A local radio station played the entire 36 hour Rhino release of the Woodstock tapes this past weekend. I was stunned by Canned Heat. I’d never heard anything of theirs other than Going up the Country. What a great, great band. I’d say that they share the honors for best set at Woodstock with CCR.
    The Who were terrible.

    • Replies: @Carol
    , @MBlanc46
    , @animalogic
  25. @Steve Sailer

    Led Zepplin’s old timey, Celto-Gothic warlock style was reactionary, in its own way. So was the shaggy hair, buckskin jackets, the interest in Tolkien’s works and the Dungeons & Dragons stuff. It was obviously a reaction to the modernism of the postwar era.

    Here’s Kenneth Clark (at the 39 min mark) delighting at the sight of Boomer undergrads making use of the modernist campus his generation had built for the little darlings. It’s a good thing he isn’t here to see them now:

  26. Thirdtwin says:
    @Redneck farmer

    My mom was 20 and my dad was 26 when I was born in 1960. I have never considered myself a Boomer; They were my uncles and my friends’ older siblings. My mom loved the Mamas & the Papas. John Phillips was born in 1935, one year after my dad.

    It would seem that the small generation between the GI generation and the Boomers (I think Strauss and Howe called it the Lost Generation) is largely responsible for the Sixties scene for which the Boomers get blame and credit today. While the Boomers were getting drafted, the Lost Gen was getting divorced. Not my parents, but almost all of my friends’ parents by 1975.

  27. Paul Rise says:

    Kind of OT – did anyone notice how virtually all the “real” Hollywood celebrities portrayed in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood were casualties of the age or had some sort of tragic outcome? Bruce Lee – probably a drug casualty; Mama Cass; Steve McQueen (EVERYONE said he died too soon when he passed); the Lancer actor (horrible drunk driving accident cost him his girlfriend, arm and leg); and of course Sharon Tate/Sebring and even Roman Polanski. It’s like he populated the film with casualties of the Hippy era. Seems too consistent across the film to be an accident – unless the glorious 60s really were that hard on a whole generation.

  28. Harold says:

    So the music genre Boomers invented is actually metal \m/
    WTF I love Boomers now.

  29. @Steve Sailer

    Led Zepplin’s Travelling Riverside Blues, 1969.

    Robert Plant, born 1948,
    Jimmy Page, born 1944.

    So a bit of both.

    • Replies: @J1234
  30. @Redneck farmer

    Makes sense; growing up during the postwar period — prosperity, father home from war — is what should matter to a child’s state of mind. Living the first two or three years of your life while WW2 was still being fought, somewhere safely distant, seems fairly irrelevant. (Unless your dad didn’t come back; that would definitely be a big deal.)

  31. Strauss-Howe point out that it was really the “Silents”, trying to escape the conformity of their next-elders the GIs, who created most of what we remember about the 60s – civil rights, the pill, no-fault divorce, loosening of pornography laws. Abbie Hoffman, Lenny Bruce, Allen Ginsberg – all Silents. The 60s were basically the Silents coming of age and rejecting the soda fountains and varsity sweaters of their teens.

    The Beatles and Monty Python had members who personally remembered World War II but were too young to fight – the defining characteristic of the Silents.

    It seems to me that the music we associate with one generation was usually created by the previous one. The ultimate 1980s band was Van Halen, led by four Boomers. Maybe Van Halen is too early to really be a Gen X band. We usually think of Gen X bands as flannel-wearing moaners.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
    • Replies: @Prosa123
    , @ben tillman
  32. Nathan says:
    @Anonymous

    “boomers see themselves as the active creators of the 60s when they were mostly the receptive audience”

    Ok, true.

  33. @Lot

    If only boomers voted, Trump would never have been nominated, much less elected. Because there would have been plenty of other candidates for us to choose from who weren’t dedicated to turning us into Brazil, but (unlike Trump) were competent administrators and could remember, from one day to the next, what they were for.

  34. Ron Howard was also famous in the sixties, as was Billy Mumy, Jerry Mathers, and Butch Patrick.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  35. I have always wondered, if the Baby Boom generation was so great, where are their Lincolns, Roosevelts, and Churchills? All we got out of them were the Clintons and George W. Bush.

    • Replies: @Carol
  36. countenance says: • Website

    It is almost impossible to name a person born after 1945 who played any kind of role in the civil-rights movement, SDS, the antiwar movement, or the Black Panthers during the 1960s.

    Someone born in 1946 would have been only 23 years old in 1969, the end of the decade.

    Politics are old people’s games.

    The German baby boom didn’t get started until 1949, which was the start of the two decade long “Wirtschaftwunder” in West Germany.

  37. Prosa123 says:

    Speaking of 1946 births, an interesting bit of trivia is that Donald Trump, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton were born within ten weeks of one another in the summer of 1946.

    • Replies: @countenance
  38. Almost No Baby Boomers Were Famous During the Sixties

    Except in their own minds.

    • Replies: @anon
  39. I don’t know why people can’t accept the “Greatest Generation,” as the movers and shakers of the 1960s. John F. Kennedy’s inaugural address announced that “the torch has passed,” and there was a definite feeling at the time that the leaders who had been born in the 19th century were phasing out for a new generation that had fought in or at least served during World War II. The Boomers (and I’m one) have their own misjudgments to answer for, but the two public policy disasters (the Civil Rights Act and the immigration reform) and the foreign policy disaster (Vietnam) can be laid squarely at the feet of the WWII generation.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  40. @Steve Sailer

    I Want You Back might have the most thrilling opening in pop history.

    You thrill easy. First song on Blue Öyster Cult’s first album:

    First song on their second album:

    • Agree: peterike
  41. countenance says: • Website
    @Prosa123

    That’s easy.

    V-J day was September 2, 1945.

    Nine months later was June 2, 1946.

    Trump born June 1946. Bush 43 born July 1946. Clinton born August 1946.

    Happy people do fun things.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Jack D
    , @tyrone
  42. Hopscotch says:
    @alt right moderate

    Their most lasting ideological legacy will be the ability to rationalize financial debt.

  43. slumber_j says:
    @The Alarmist

    These openings and Steve’s all feel like they’re coming in medias res, I’d say: maybe that’s the recipe.

  44. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    The ones who really “own and monopolize the culture” are the Chosen, which is why the Holocaust is still touring, and it’s always 1939.

  45. @Intelligent Dasein

    my boomer relatives born late 40s WERE a part of the protest movements. I believe most of the 60s marchers would have been boomers i.e. Bernie(who wasn’t famous at the time.) The leaders might not have been boomers, but the rank and file were I think.

    I think the real thing is, most people aren’t a part of revolutions. Like we think the whole 13 colonies were a part of the american revolution when really only a small % of the population did anything relevant to fighting or facilitating the logistics of fighting.

  46. @Kronos

    I don’t have access to their 2 books right now, Kronos, but I’m pretty sure Strauss & Howe set the beginning of the “Baby Boomer” generation at 1945 and the end at 1961. Of course, even with their pretty damn prescient prediction of an unraveling period being just about over, leading to a crisis (no shit, right? easy to say now), there’s a lot of hokey stuff in those books. Here’s where I don’t agree with you, and I don’t think S&H put it this way either:

    The 1960-1964 cohort were involved in growing up in the 1970s, apparently the least child-friendly decade in living memory.

    I see the 1970’s as having been a period of low child supervision, the opposite of the current helicopter-parenting, that is. That’s not child un-friendly, IMO, as children could get away with all sorts of stuff in the ’70’s, let me tell you. No, I don’t have room for all the stories. Part of the beauty of it was that America was not yet set up as the Police State it is now. The 1970’s may have been the freest period any people have ever seen in history.

  47. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @countenance

    Sounds more like “Village of the Damned.” Radiation, or karma?

  48. Carol says:
    @PiltdownMan

    Many of the bands who suddenly made it big in 65-66 were playing soul music and wearing pompadours in 64.

    Right place, right time.

  49. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    “If you can remember the 60s, you weren’t there.”

  50. Paul says:

    In terms of numbers, plenty of SDS baby boomers were on college campuses in the late 1960s. The younger SDS members tended be more radical than the older ones as the Vietnam War dragged on.

  51. Farenheit says:

    As someone born in very late 1963, I’ve always contended that the baby boom ended with the assassination of JFK. On numerous occasions when “accused” of being a boomer, my reply has always been “not this guy, I was born during the Johnson administration.”

  52. @Intelligent Dasein

    While I agree with your good point, I.D, that these BBers have dragged this stuff out for years in front of everybody, being a very large group aged closely together, I’ll say this too: Who elected Ronald Reagan, twice? All the Baby Boomers were of voting age (hell, their parents lowered the voting age for them!). One can generalize about these generational cohorts and stuff, but we should still remember that most margins of votes or polls about “conservative” vs. “lefty”, etc, are not that big.

    Also, part of the reason these bands whose members probably used to believe you shouldn’t trust anyone over 30 are playing in their 70’s (!) is because all the music since has sucked in comparison. But go to a Stones show and poll the Boomer audience as to who is a conservative – you may be surprised.

  53. Nodwink says:

    Your mate Aaron Gross has made the point repeatedly on Twitter that 60s music was more Herb Alpert and Dean Martin than psychedelic rock and Woodstock.

  54. Jack D says:
    @countenance

    And vice versa. A lot of people held off having kids because they didn’t know if they were going to survive the war and didn’t want to leave behind fatherless children. Bush Sr. was shot down and came THAT close to not surviving.

    What did Pappy Trump do during the war? Donald was not the oldest – there was his brother the alcoholic airline pilot who’s dead now. Donald was scared straight by his example and won’t even take a sip of wine.

    • Replies: @Prosa123
  55. Art Deco says:

    The nadir in live births was in 1936 and the peak was in 1957. There was a year-over-year increase between 1945 and 1946 of ~21%, a jagged up and down pattern prior to that and and passably graduated increase after. The rapid increase in the propensity to initiate divorce proceedings began with the cohorts born around 1938 and hit a plateau among the cohorts born around 1950. The explosion in the tendency to produce bastard children began with the cohorts born in the early 1940s and hit a plateau with the cohorts born 50 years later. The surge in the prevalence of drug use began with the cohorts born in the early 1940s and hit a plateau with the cohorts born in the early 1960s. The surge in the incidence of street crime began with the cohorts born in the early 1940s and hit a plateau among the cohorts born in the early 1960s. The Blackboard Jungle problem in schools began with the cohorts born in the late 1930s and hasn’t hit bottom yet. About 65% of the men born between the beginning of 1930 and the end of 1938 had a history of military service. Of the cohorts born between the beginning of 1939 and the end of 1952, the figure was about 45%. Of succeeding cohorts, I think it’s around 12%. Mass musical preferences changed quite abruptly ca. 1955, with the cohorts born in the late 1930s the vanguard; you had a sort of decomposition into a variety of genres beginning among the cohorts born in the early 1970s. Obnoxious political protest in collegiate settings began with the cohorts born in the early 1940s and ended with those born in the mid-1950s. If you take a compromise between these termini, ‘Boomers’ are people born from roughly 1939 to roughly 1961.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  56. I was going to suggest Craig Chaquico of Jefferson Starship, as he was born in 1954. He was 16 when he joined, but that was in 1971, and with a band squarely set in the 70s, so nevermind. Chaquico still has an active musical career as a jazz guitarist, and he’s really very good.

  57. Jack D says:

    I’ve always felt that there’s a difference between early and late boomers. My wife’s older cousins and siblings born in the late ’40s/early 50s had a whole idyllic childhood in an optimistic time and were fully formed teenagers or young adults by the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis/Kennedy assassination/race riots/Vietnam/drugs, etc. For the late ’50s/early 60s group, they have no memory of an America not in crisis. That left a mark.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  58. It’s another small sign that we are doomed that even in this forum we are speculating on which 3-minute disposable repetitive blackety-black “song” is the GOAT of American popular music.

    Not related to blackety-black music per se, but more to the curious phenomenon of the retrospective mythologizing of the music “revolution” of the 1960s: For the first 6 years of the 1960s, the top selling album of every year was a Broadway or film musical soundtrack cast recording (1960-65). After that came Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass (1966) – not exactly psychedelic, The Monkees – basically a fake band (1967), Jimi Hendrix – finally a genuine blackety-black drug-addled overrated guitarist and marble-mouthed non-singer (1968), and finally Iron Butterfly (1969).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_by_year_in_the_United_States

    Things ain’t what they used to be, but then again things weren’t really what we think they were either.

  59. Jack D says:
    @Art Deco

    Of the cohorts born between the beginning of 1939 and the end of 1952, the figure was about 45% [military service]. Of succeeding cohorts, I think it’s around 12%.

    The draft ended completely in ’73 but they were tapering off even before that. US troops in Vietnam peaked in ’68 and were drawn down rapidly after that. December 1972 saw the last men conscripted, who were born in 1952.

    Of course that Leftist favorite, Richard Nixon gets full credit for ending the draft, right?

  60. @Nathan

    Right. You’d have to be famous at 23 years’ old, or younger, to make the cut.

    How many people does that really happen to?

    Even as a musician, you’ve got to hone your craft, develop your sound, build up some kind of following, and then get a recording deal and get popular.

    If you get “discovered” and pushed hard by some sponsor that could accelerate the process. But to get famous organically for having talent just takes some time, usually.

    The Beatles did it about as fast as anyone could expect to. And they were just about 23 years old when they started blowing up in the U.K.

  61. @anonymous

    When I was in high school in the mid-80s, I bought a Motown 25th Anniversary greatest hits cassette (at Tower Records in Concord, CA with an older black guy in line behind me questioning me condescendingly about it for some reason) and played it endlessly. But I have a distinct memory of being parked in my car with my girlfriend at the time trying to decipher the lyrics to “I Want You Back” and eventually figuring out the line “every street I walk on/I leave tear stains on the ground/Following the girl/I didn’t even want a round” and it was like Eureka! because we were having trouble with the lyric for some reason. Additional info no one asked for or is interested in: I “became a man” later that summer to “I’ll Be There”. But my point is, yes, it’s a great song.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  62. O'Really says:

    re: the three President born in 1946:

    Not enough is made of differences *within* the boomer generation.

    Those born at the leading edge (c. 1946) had enormous advantages over the later born.

    In my career, I am directly subordinate to someone born in 1945 who has been “in charge” since the early ’80s. I am aware of numerous similar examples in my field.

    This phenomenon is analogous to the advantage that the January-born have in developing athletic prowess/excellence.

  63. tyrone says:
    @countenance

    Clinton born 2 months after Trump……..and some people say the devil is not real.

  64. MEH 0910 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Elvis Costello Fan Forum comment:

    And I’ve gotta recall that the first ever official concert I ever saw was Graham Parker and the Rumour at the Santa Monica Civic with Rachel Sweet opening on the day that Lowell George of Little Feat died.

    The concert was actually on June 30, 1979, the day after Lowell George died:

    https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/graham-parker-and-the-rumour/1979/santa-monica-civic-auditorium-santa-monica-ca-7bfee624.html

    No setlist available for that show, but there are some setlists for other shows on the tour:

    https://www.setlist.fm/search?query=graham+parker+%26+the+rumour+1979

    I Want You Back (Live)

  65. Prosa123 says:
    @Jack D

    Fred Trump built Navy housing during World War Ii. He was 36 at the start of the war and therefore past customary draft age.
    William Jefferson Blythe was in the Army, but worked in a motor pool far from the front lines.

  66. @Steve Sailer

    A good rule of thumb: a Boomer is too young to remember the war, and old enough to recall Kennedy being shot. That means 1943-1960, the years used by Strauss and Howe.

    1964 is the demographic last year of the Boom. The falloff in births would be interesting. Anyone born after August, 1964, would have been conceived after JFK and Dallas. My suspicion: the shock of the assassination ended the boom, as people lost some faith in the future. The economy was still roaring along fine, enough so that in 1965 LBJ could arrange to give away massive subsidies to the elderly in the form of Medicare, so it didn’t become too expensive to have kids, just less attractive.

    A graph of births by month in 1964 would be most illustrative in this regard.

  67. George says:

    “Most Woodstock stars were born during WWII years (1939-1945).”

    The audience demographics are more important than the performer’s demographics. I would figure the 1969 audience was 20-25, so 1949-1944. Woodstock was a kind of kick-off event for the baby boom. It is also more fun to talk about than the failed wars against Vietnam, poverty, ect and the soundtrack is first rate. The performers at Woodstock might also be the last generation of musical craftsmanship.

  68. Clemsnman says:

    The Boomers were the ones that were influenced by all that rockgut and put the ideas into practice once they came of age.

  69. Baby Boomer Trump Inadvertently Starts Brawl About National Identity And The JEW QUESTION

  70. The Jackson 5’s electrifying single I Want You Back was released in October 1969, but didn’t reach #1 until January 1970.

    Technically, the sixties didn’t end until January 1, 1971.

  71. J1234 says:
    @TomSchmidt

    My suspicion: the shock of the assassination ended the boom, as people lost some faith in the future.

    A more important contribution to the end to the boom would be the birth control pill, though I don’t know exactly how well received it was when first introduced. I suspect it was widely used enough at first to make a difference, though. You’re correct that Kennedy being shot was a watershed moment that changed America…for the worse.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
    , @dfordoom
  72. @Laurence Whelk

    It’s another small sign that we are doomed that even in this forum we are speculating on which 3-minute disposable repetitive blackety-black “song” is the GOAT of American popular music.

    I completely agree. Black music, sportsball, and Hollywood are three things that should never be discussed around here except in terms of derision, and yet these appear to be the commentariat’s favorite pastimes. That’s a Boomer thing, too.

    By the way, I cannot stand the intro to “I Want You Back.” It’s too bright and artificial. It gives me the same feeling as the last afternoon of a long vacation, knowing that the freedom is shortly to come to an end and trying unsuccessfully to convince yourself that the rat race is “real life.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Vinteuil
  73. L Woods says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    I think you know why this is: normiecons can’t let the WWII morality play narrative go. In truth, the “Greatest Generation” is quite likely the nation’s worst. As irritating as it may be that boomers will ride off into the sunset fat on their 401(k)s, the impenetrable haze of accolades and self-satisfaction their parents have been permitted to pass under is a greater escape from justice by far.

  74. donut says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I bet your car radio is set to the “oldies but goodies” station you old fart . My car’s radio has been broken since ’95 , don’t miss it much . I drove from Baltimore to SF w/o a radio . It was nice , wondering what life was like in the places I passed through . There is a lot of BIG empty space in America .

    • Replies: @Jack D
  75. O'Really says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    and the #1 single in 1966 was “Ballad of the Green Berets”

    • LOL: Laurence Whelk
  76. @Charon

    The white fertility rate was higher from 1930-1940 than anytime after 1967.

    More white babies were born in America from 1930-1940 than during the last 10 years.

    The birth rate , number of births per 1000 women aged 15-44, was 81 from 1930-1940, For white females the birth rate has been below 60 since 1969

    • Replies: @Jack D
  77. Anonymous[627] • Disclaimer says:

    In a way, the generation between GG and BB were the first X-ers as they didn’t quite fit into either.

    Maybe they should be called the U-ers or V-ers.

    They were too young to fight in WWII yet too old to part of youth culture.

    This generation goes from those born in 29 to 40(give or take a year).

    John Cassavetes for example. Too young to relate to GG but too old to be hip with BB, and his favorite movie subject were middle aged people, not youth.

    Cassavetes and Andrew Sarris were at the older extreme of the U while Dylan at the other end. Dylan was young in the 60s, but when the teens got into drugs in mid and late 60s, he was already feeling a bit old and didn’t relate to the trends though he helped create them.

    Elvis was essential to rise of youth culture but hated the Beatles and hippies and the 60s in general. He got famous acting like a Negro but felt closer to the worldview of John Wayne and Nixon.

  78. JimB says:

    A more interesting study is how many more famous were born in the middle four years of the baby boom compared to the last four years.

  79. Anonymous[627] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    His half-brother, James, was the grandfather of President Jimmy Carter.”

    Given Jimmy Carter’s lips, maybe he wasn’t a half-brother.

  80. @TomSchmidt

    “Subsidies” to the elderly.

    Stupid mook.

    May you lose your savings and your old age be without subsidy. Mook.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  81. Best openings for sixties rock songs (soul and funk are of course a separate matter):

    The Who, “Pinball Wizard”. The world champ.

    The Beach Boys, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice”. The other world champ, also the greatest sucker-punch in rock history.

    Jefferson Airplane, “White Rabbit”. The sneaky approach, but man, what a sneak.

    Captain Beefheart, “Sure Nuff N Yes I Do”. Sure nuff n yes he did.

    Personally my favorite opening is the Beatles “Come Together”, a masterpiece of controlled tension. It’s like a rock song produced by Alfred Hitchcock.

    And for sheer startling, fall-out-of-your-seat shock value, it’s gotta be Captain Beefheart’s “Frownland”, the most disorienting, did-a-helicopter-just-crash-into-the-house opening, also the most shocking first listen, that I can think of.

  82. What an amusing congeries of half-baked braindead “theories.”

  83. J1234 says:
    @The Alarmist

    Does anyone else think that Jimmy Page has become very Asiatic looking as he’s grown old? Your video reminds me that he didn’t look that way so much when he was young. I’ve never heard of him being of mixed race, though. (My impression is that people’s racial heritage becomes visually more conspicuous as they get older.)

    • Replies: @Luke
  84. @Thirdtwin

    It would seem that the small generation between the GI generation and the Boomers (I think Strauss and Howe called it the Lost Generation)

    No. The Lost Generation were the dough boys. They fought in WWI and were youngish adults during the Roaring ’20s. This was F. Scott Fitzgerald’s generation.

    The generation you’re referring to are called the Silent, for Pete’s sake. Doesn’t anybody read?

    • Replies: @Thirdtwin
  85. Jack D says:
    @donut

    Maybe Steve’s an old fart, but you’re the weirdo. Cars radios were an immediate hit because you can listen and still drive and it helps to pass the time. Even in the old cigar factories, long before there was radio, each factory employed a lector who would read books aloud and help the workers to pass the time as they rolled the cigars.

    Nowadays the possibilities are endless – not just what is broadcast locally (not much to choose from in the middle of nowhere) but satellite radio, streaming services over your phone, music that you have saved (on your phone again), podcasts, recorded books, etc. Old fart music, modern music, classical music, jazz – whatever you like. There has to be SOMETHING that you like to listen to.

    Sometimes I ride with the audio off but not most of the time. You can only contemplate that big emptiness so much. If I were a space alien driving cross country, my conclusion would be that cattle are the masters of the planet and that they must enslave humans to take care of them. There are many states with more cattle than people.

  86. Jack D says:
    @Prodigal son

    Sure, birth rates were higher in the past before the Pill, legal abortion, feminism, etc. but there was a big dip during the Great Depression:

    In other countries, modern fertility is even worse – in Japan the population kept going up even after millions died in WWII, but now it’s going down.

    • Agree: BB753
  87. @Charon

    I’m going to say – 1954. That’s just young enough to have avoided to the draft for Vietnam. You would have been a young adult during the late 70’s to mid-80’s, which was a fun time. And currently, you would be one year away from social security retirement, which is good since the stock market is likely peaking right now. From 1955-1960 they gradually raised the retirement age to 67. Being roughly 20 years away from that number right now, I fully expect the retirement age to be increased to anywhere from 68 to 72 by the time I get up there. Gen-X has been screwed over in every other conceivable way, so why the hell not?

  88. Ibound1 says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    My Dad loved Herb Alpert, and he was the one with the money. The kids in my family didn’t have hundreds of albums in 1966 – just a few exchanged with friends and singles – my older brothers and sisters (adolescents and teenagers then) could not spend on music. And there was one real stereo in the house and my Dad controlled it. My sister had a crappy record player with an even crappier cloth speaker. We were awakened by my Dad to either classical music, Broadway musicals, Herb Alpert and a bit later, to the Nashville Brass.

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
  89. Jack D says:
    @Charon

    it seems like it was easy enough to avoid Vietnam so long as you were in school,

    First of all, especially in those days not everyone went to college so that route was closed to many. The draft lasted up until age 26 so you had to remain a student until then – in effect get a PhD.

    TBH, very few people who were college educated SWPLs were ever going to end up slogging thru the jungles of Vietnam unless they wanted to be there. (Blue collar whites and minorities were a different story). There was the National Guard – very few units were sent to Vietnam. The US had bases all over the world – Germany, Korea, Japan, etc. as well as in the US – the Cold War was till on. Even if you were in Vietnam, there were plenty of office jobs in Saigon. You could join the Navy. The military has always (since WWI) tested people for intelligence (and typing ability) and there was always a need for people capable of doing paper pushing or something more intellectually demanding than toting a rifle.

    Most SWPLs didn’t really want to be in the military period and their fear of getting shot was disproportionate to the actual odds.

    • Replies: @Corn
    , @Redneck farmer
    , @donut
  90. Forbes says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I see the 1970’s as having been a period of low child supervision, the opposite of the current helicopter-parenting, that is. … Part of the beauty of it was that America was not yet set up as the Police State it is now. The 1970’s may have been the freest period any people have ever seen in history.

    Absolutely.

  91. @the one they call Desanex

    What about Steely Dan? “King of the World”, “Bodhisattva”, “Josie”, “Don’t Take Me Alive”, etc., etc.

  92. Art Deco says:
    @Thirdtwin

    The term ‘Lost Generation’ was one made use of by Strauss and Howe, but it’s been around for nearly a century and refers to WWI veterans and their contemporaries. The Depression babies and those a tad older have been called ‘the Silent Generation’ since the war. The term was current when my mother was a college student 70 years ago.

    There are producers and consumers of mass entertainment for youth. It’s not surprising that the former are somewhat more established than the latter, and thus older. John Phillips may have been born in 1935, but few men of that cohort were anything like John Phillips (and his confederates were a half-dozen years his junior). The Beatles were born in the early 1940s, as were the Rolling Stones, Diana Ross, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Jerry Garcia, Janis Joplin &c. (Grace Slick, James Brown, and Peter, Paul, & Mary were Depression babies, however). A number of professional public nuisances were also born in the early 1940s: Tom Hayden, Todd Gitlin, Dohrn / Ayers and the other Weathermen, Stokely Carmichael, Rap Brown. (Some other gurus were a great deal older, e.g. Timothy Leary and the Berrigan brothers).

  93. just thinking of Peggy Fleming – makes me sad for the America we lost.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  94. Art Deco says:
    @Charon

    Graduate school deferments were discontinued at the end of 1967. If I’m not mistaken, all student deferments were discontinued at the end of 1969, when the draft lottery was instituted. By 1970, baccalaureate granting institutions were hoovering up about 25% of each cohort, and that’s notably higher than was the case in 1960.

    During the period running from 1948 to 1964, it was modal to enlist in the service rather than wait for conscription, though many people were conscripted. I could be wrong, but I believe draft calls were used to staff the Army, not the other services. Typically, you got out of high school and enlisted or were inducted within a year or two. The median age of the conscripts sent to Viet Nam was < 20.0. For the college bound set, you enlisted after graduation (unless you dropped out to enlist). Still, about 1/4 of each cohort was disqualified for service (medical defects, often quite minor; failing scores on psychological tests, criminal record &c). Among the Depression-baby cohorts, ~12% were excused from service for miscellaneous reasons. Among later cohorts, about 30% were excused for miscellaneous reasons.

    • Replies: @Corn
  95. @Laurence Whelk

    “… Jimi Hendrix … overrated guitarist … ”

    Agreed. He had an explosive, improvisational style that could be quite thrilling — Voodoo Child (1968) comes to mind. But technically? He seemed more into sound distortion than melody.

    • Replies: @TorontoTraveller
  96. Tail-ender David Foster Wallace 1962, maybe J Franzen 1964. I much prefer Wallace’s non-fiction, but still …

    Here’s a best books by Baby Boomers list I pass on without comment

    https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/32363.Best_Books_By_Baby_Boomers

  97. Anonymous[747] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charon

    “I Want You Back” does have a knockout intro, but I think the Turtles’ “Happy Together” is a more perfect confection.

    Most people would say Stones ‘Satisfaction’. Stones had great intros to songs: Paint it Black, Honky Tonk Woman, Jumping Jack Flash, Tumbling Dice.

    Ticket to Ride has great intro, but I like how She Loves You just bursts out without an intro. Same with Beach Boys Good Vibrations.

    Outfield’s All the Love in the World has great intro. Ashes to Ashes by Bowie and To Live and Die in LA by Wang Chung that did wonders for the movie.

  98. Corn says:
    @Jack D

    “First of all, especially in those days not everyone went to college so that route was closed to many. The draft lasted up until age 26 so you had to remain a student until then – in effect get a PhD.”

    Certainly true. My high school science teacher was drafted in 1969 or 1970 and sent to Vietnam. He was a year or two out of college and had a wife and baby daughter.

    College wasn’t the draft escape hatch many assume it to be.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  99. Anonymous[747] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I completely agree. Black music, sportsball, and Hollywood are three things that should never be discussed around here except in terms of derision, and yet these appear to be the commentariat’s favorite pastimes. That’s a Boomer thing, too.

    Ya gotta give credit where it’s due. Even Jews admit Wagner was a musical giant and genius.

  100. Corn says:
    @Art Deco

    “I could be wrong, but I believe draft calls were used to staff the Army, not the other services.”

    I think that was true initially, but as the Vietnam War ground on the Marines took some draftees.

    A man on a gun collectors/shooters webforum I browsed once claimed to have been drafted into the Navy Seabees, but I can’t confirm that.

  101. Carol says:
    @JMcG

    I thought they were great when I saw them in 67, but that one hit just so atypical….ugh.

    Why does that happen.

  102. @Charon

    I have a PhD in chemistry.

    It appeared to me that the folks who were of the age to get their PhDs in the late 1950s through the late 1960s, really had it made.

    The reasons?

    1. In those days, graduate school in the sciences, including an MS and PhD took about 3 years, sometimes 4. By the 1980s it was 4-6 minimum, often longer. By the 1980s and 1990s only a spectacular student could get through in 4 years, only in the right research project, with an incredible amount of luck. Even some really great students took 6 years or longer.

    What that meant — even excluding child prodigies, someone could get their PhD by the time he (usually a white male) was 25-26. Then a 1-2 year post doc, then into the colleges which were greatly expanding their enrollment at the time. Assistant professor age 25-28. Or, straight to industry, which was greatly expanding at the time, get a job 25-28. Housing costs were lower, and the 1970s inflation meant that by the mid 1980s they had maybe a couple of thousand dollars mortgage on a house worth several times what they bought it for.

    Also, the government research money really started rolling in during the Eisenhower era. For a while, there was tons of research money. Eventually the number of professors went up, and the research money started to dry up a bit in the Reagan years.

    So, someone who started at the age of 28 in 1956 would have been born in 1928. Someone who started a career in 1972 at the age of 25 would have been born in 1947. Add a few years to round on both sides, and the best time for an okay but not spectacular scientist would be 1025-1950, with the absolute peak years being about 1930-1945.

    My research adviser was born around 1937, right in the middle of that time. The scientists of around his time frame had it MUCH better than the next generation. More jobs, little competition from Asian foreign students and immigrants, lower housing costs, etc.

    The professors in the liberal arts born in that time frame really had it made as well. Maybe not quite as much research money, but they were professors at a time when suddenly there were a ton of young co-eds coming in. I remember in the late 1970s and early 80s there were a number of 50 something professors who were getting it on like crazy with ladies in their 20s, sometimes as young as 18 or 19. These guys were mostly born in the 1920s. Some of them were about the same age as my father, who was born in 1924. So maybe the early part of the window should be expanded as far back as 1920.

    My father had it made, being born in 1924 and having severe allergies, so he was 4-F. Almost no male students during the war, so he was able to transfer to Columbia where he was friends with people like Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac. Guys born in the 1920s had it made if they were able to avoid WWII, or at least avoid getting killed or wounded. The folks later on had it made if they could avoid the Korean War. Some of the scientists I knew avoided the war by doing research considered vital to the war effort. Other than that, guys born in the late 20s were probably in the best age range to slip in between WWII and Korea, and guys born in the late 1930s and possibly early 1940s were in the best age range to slip in between Korea and Vietnam.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @JMcG
  103. Carol says:
    @Mike Zwick

    Who said we were great?

    It was just a great era to come of age in, if you were looking to avoid growing up.

    • Replies: @Mike Zwick
  104. @Jack D

    “For the late 50s/early 60s group, they have no memory of an America not in crisis. That left a mark.”

    I was born in the late 60s. For those early Xers like me your statement also rings true. By the way, Donovan’s Hurdy Gurdy Man (1968), with its ominous atmosphere, really captures that time.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  105. Anonymous[327] • Disclaimer says:

    Who was the first Boomer rock star? Who was the first Boomer movie star?

    • Replies: @SaneClownPosse
    , @Anonymous
  106. Icy Blast says:
    @Anonymous

    The “…the mid 80s were essentially the halcyon days of Rock culture…” What? Madonna? Michael Jackson? Do you know what “Rock” is? I think you mean Pop. Madonna and Michael Jackson have nothing to do with “Rock.”

  107. anon[122] • Disclaimer says:

    How do I post a picture in this comment box?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  108. Whiskey says: • Website

    It is self evident that the greatest rock song ever is Starships We Built This City.

    Second Greatest is Starships Nothing’s Going to Stop Us Now.

    Eff Rolling Stone

    • Replies: @guest
  109. My family missed the Boomer generation – my father was born in 1939. I was born in 1962 – there are some valid arguments that people born between 1956-1964(ish) are a distinct generation, or at least a subgen, between Boomers and Gen Xers (“Generation Jones”
    http://www.generationjones.com)

    Since I was a child at the time, living in a very traditional working class family – “The ‘60s” ™️ did not exist for me in real time, but only in the later skewed retrospective view that is just as narrow as “The Gay Nineties”, “The Roaring Twenties”, or the “Conformist ‘50s”. I walked a little less than a mile to our neighborhood elementary from the first grade to the fourth with no fear of abduction. We watched network TV variety shows that featured comedians and crooners, Wild Kingdom, and The Wonderful World of Disney. When I came of age in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s, pop music seemed too black, too gay, too English, too lefty so I gravitated to classical and pre-‘60s Jazz.

    Too young to be a Boomer; too old to be an Xer.

    Then again, my gen x brother, a doctor of education who has been through every “Generations” training and seminar you could imagine, says it’s just a scam to sell books and conferences.

    • Replies: @Franz
  110. Prosa123 says:
    @Faraday's Bobcat

    “The Beatles … had members who personally remembered World War II”

    Ringo, the oldest member, turned 5 a month or so after V-E Day, John was a couple of months younger, and Paul and George were toddlers. If they remembered anything it was very little.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  111. @Jack D

    Mil SF writer David Drake was entering law school when he got drafted. Johnson ended PhD deferments.

  112. @SunBakedSuburb

    100% agree! Obviously anyone who composed Little Wing had a poor ear for melody. lol

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
  113. Michael S says:

    Sure, Boomers may not have produced much, but they took consumption to new, previously-inconceivable levels! That must count for something.

  114. Art Deco says:
    @Corn

    My high school science teacher was drafted in 1969 or 1970 and sent to Vietnam. He was a year or two out of college and had a wife and baby daughter.

    He’d have been categorically excused if he already had dependent children. That was the rule from the time conscription was instituted in 1940 to the time it was discontinued in 1973, bar the period running from the fall of 1943 to the fall of 1945.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
  115. Art Deco says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Haven’t looked at data recently. I’m recalling a study I looked at ca. 1997 which said the median quantum of time to receive a PhD had increased by about 9 months over the previous 35 years, and attributed the increase to the increased number of women with childcare responsibilities in graduate programs.

    Sixty years ago, it was a sellers market for academic labor and schools weren’t at all adverse to hiring people with M.A.’s and unfinished dissertations. To take one example, Christopher Lasch started his teaching career in 1956; his dissertation wasn’t signed until 1961. Some of these sorts were granted tenure with just an MA and never finished that dissertation. (Not sure that a research degree was the mode among college faculty before the war outside the research universities).

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  116. Sparkon says:

    Here a quick peek at some early ’60s, Camelot-era U.S. teenager in the video below from the “upside down year” of 1961, when JFK was our new President, Mantle and Maris chased Ruth’s record, and many were ready to “…twist again, like we did last summer.”

    Here I give you Del Shannon with a big fave and #1 smash hit from 1961 – “Runaway”

    Bleeding Madras baby! Cookie crunchers, and teeny boppers having just too much fun!

  117. Serendipity.

    I follow Steve’s link and read a pretty interesting article on the Boomer generation, or at least their more influential predecessors.

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-misconception-about-baby-boomers-and-the-sixties

    At the bottom of the page I notice an intriguing article link:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-gastronomy/the-popeyes-chicken-sandwich-is-here-to-save-america

    Not sure if Popeyes paid the New Yorker for a native ad, but they had me at the picture:

    I look on a map and there’s a Popeyes nearby in Valley Village. I decided to nullify the health benefits of my daily walk by stopping in for lunch.

    It was fantastic; highly recommended.

    (Warning: select and re-con your Popeyes location and dining time carefully – I’d hate to see you on Facebook mixed up in a vertical aspect Obamaphone video of a giant Wahmunz of the Proud Hair Battle Royale.)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  118. Luke says:
    @J1234

    Why did you post a picture of Paul Stanley from Kiss?

    • Replies: @J1234
  119. @Laurence Whelk

    The Popeye’s on Laurel Canyon?

  120. @TorontoTraveller

    Obviously anyone who composed Little Wing had a poor ear for melody. lol

    This is melody (contemporaneous with “Little Wing”, btw). Oh, the musical sophistication we gave up for three-chord wonders. I always laugh when someone tries to point out melodic and harmonic “innovations” in Beatles tunes.

    • Replies: @TorontoTraveller
  121. @Art Deco

    I taught in some colleges as an adjunct instructor with an MS. Once I got my PhD, I got a very small raise to be an adjunct assistant professor.

    I do know of a few cases in which people with only MA degrees became professors. Often they were truly exceptional people who made great strides in their field but never got a PhD. Two people I knew were Adolph Reed, Sr. and Diane Blair, both deceased now. Mr. Reed was one of the world’s leading experts on southern politics and integration. He was a black guy, and he could interview the former segregationists and integrationists and get interviews a white guy couldn’t get. His stories about interviews with Orval Faubus and Lyndon Johnson were wonderful.

    Other than that, the professor title is jealously guarded, and rarely given to someone with a Masters.

    In science related companies, it was considered an insult for anyone with a PhD to have a boss without a PhD. The CEOs of all the major chemical companies in those days were PhD scientists. My research adviser did a post-doc alongside another post-doc who later became CEO of a large chemical company.

    I knew one guy who was a farm boy who was hired as a lab tech by Dow. He was extremely brilliant, so Dow paid for his to get his Associates degree, then his BS, then his MS, then his PhD. For several years he was one of those notorious ABD (All But Dissertation) guys, and he had people under him who had people under them who had PhDs. Dow was happy with his work, but it was a very serious breach of protocol for someone with an MS to be that high up in the company. At one point he was promoted on the condition he finish up ASAP if he wanted to keep his new promotion. So he went back to the lab for a few weeks to finish up some experiments, then wrote up his dissertation.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @ScarletNumber
  122. @Mike Zwick

    That covers the boys … how about Gidget AKA The Flying Nun AKA Sally Field, born in late 1946?

    There’s also Marianne Faithful (As Tears Go By, 1964), born late 1946, and Mary Hopkins (Those Were the Days, 1968), born mid-1950.

  123. @Aguynamedme

    Definitely sad for the USA we lost shortly after Peggy’s triumph.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  124. guest says:
    @anonymous

    It does have one of the great stars singing with that Motown Sound. But of course all the Motown songs had the Motown Sound.

  125. guest says:
    @Whiskey

    What about Jefferson Starship’s Miracles, which is my favorite song about orgasms?

  126. guest says:

    Little Michael Jackson had to be a wunderkind performer at 5 years old to squeak in under the wire.

  127. @Steve Sailer

    The Popeye’s on Laurel Canyon?

    That’s the one!

  128. Art Deco says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I’ve known a number at one institution, and not a low-rent institution either. However, they were all hired prior to about 1966. I can recall one fellow from later cohorts whose dissertation was still unsigned and, per the faculty handbook, was given the title of ‘instructor’ rather than ‘assistant professor’. That title is hardly ever used anymore (at that institution). I think he was hired in 1991 and the dissertation was signed the following year. That particular institution gives tenure track faculty an interim review after five semester, and if your dissertation isn’t signed, you can expect a terminal contract come spring.

    You do have fields where the MA is the terminal degree, e.g. studio art and creative writing programs. I’d have to check, but I think there are occupational programs wherein research degrees are unusual. (I don’t think nursing instructors usually have them).

  129. Art Deco says:
    @Prosa123

    The 2d World War had a vicious impact on daily life in Britain, so they likely did remember it and the clearing of the rubble thereafter. (The winter of 1946-47 was also a trauma in those circumstances). The last components of war rationing weren’t dismantled in Britain until 1955. In the U.S., one thing the very young might remember was rationing, but that disappeared within months of the war’s end and it would have been your baseline, so made less of an impression).

  130. Henry8 says:

    Baby boomers were the first consumption generation. There only contribution was figuring out ways to maximize purchasing, primarily of leisure and social status related items.

    At the end of the day, the only thing they will be “famous” for is owning huge amounts of junk, and the debt (defacto and de jure) accumulated to acquire it, most of which will be passed on to future generations.

    • Agree: Hopscotch
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  131. @Redneck farmer

    “Birthrates started to climb during the war”
    Men going off to war, knocking up their wives. To keep their lineage going just in case. Maybe to keep wife busy.

    Birthrates surge in 1946.
    Men back from war, knocking up their wives, just because.
    My older brothers are twins born Nov 1942, next was born Nov 1946. In between Father was in England.

    Meanwhile, 1947-1948, Father was trained to be a squadron nuclear weapons safety officer in New Mexico, and possibly his gonads were exposed to some loose particles.
    Me? Dec 1949, a leaky condom?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  132. @Charon

    I had an uncle by marriage, who had born at the right time. He was too young for WW1 and too old for WW2. The first older person I had met that hadn’t served in a war.

    Thought it was a normal thing to have served in a war.

    USA! USA!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  133. @Laurence Whelk

    “Get off my lawn, you non-melodic kids!” (shaking fist)

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk
  134. @Steve Sailer

    Isn’t Laurel Canyon where they say the CIA and/or Naval Intelligence created the hippie movement in order to sabotage the real Left? I remember seeing websites about that a long time ago.

  135. @obwandiyag

    Do you object to the word subsidies? Is it incorrect, that elderly Americans were subsidized at the expense of working Americans? As Moynihan said, everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts. Do you have some facts to put against this, or are you simply uncomfortable with being subsidized?

    Some news for you:
    https://now.org/read-this/us-wealth-gap-between-young-and-old-is-widest-ever/

  136. @J1234

    But the pill was 1960. There was a gradual decline from 1957 onward. See:
    https://www.infoplease.com/us/births/live-births-and-birth-rates-year

    There’s a significant drop from 1964 to 1965, over 270K fewer babies (maybe also spurring immigration changes?), that far exceeds any previous drop, with the largest being about 100K.

    19593 4,295,000 24.3
    19603 4,257,850 23.7
    19613 4,268,326 23.3
    19623 4,167,362 22.4
    19633 4,098,020 21.7
    19643 4,027,490 21.0
    19653 3,760,358 19.4
    19663 3,606,274 18.4

  137. Vinteuil says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    It’s another small sign that we are doomed that even in this forum we are speculating on which 3-minute disposable repetitive blackety-black “song” is the GOAT of American popular music.

    I think it was Noel Coward who advised: never underestimate the potency of cheap music.

    When it comes to music, people tend to get hooked on stuff they heard in early youth. Only very rarely do they move beyond that.

    Our host was ten or eleven years old when “I want you back” came out. I guess he found it “thrilling,” at the time, and has never gotten over it.

    I listen to the same song, now, and I’m just baffled. “Thrilling?” Really? WTF?

    I guess you just had to have been there.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Old Palo Altan
  138. donut says:
    @Jack D

    Wrong . A lot of people who had no business in college went there to avoid the draft . And when they couldn’t hack it they all switched to Teaching Majors or Psych . Social Work or some other 60’s version of gender or WETF studies .

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  139. Vinteuil says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I cannot stand the intro to “I Want You Back.” It’s too bright and artificial. It gives me the same feeling as the last afternoon of a long vacation, knowing that the freedom is shortly to come to an end and trying unsuccessfully to convince yourself that the rat race is “real life.”

    My friend, any song that could genuinely give you that “same feeling” would be a masterpiece for the ages.

  140. “so although 1964 is usually chosen, that date, like most in generational thinking other than 1946, is arbitrary.”

    it is not arbitrary. it roughly marks the introduction of reliable, over the counter birth control medication, which immediately impacted the entire society. birth rates went down right away and steadily declined from there on out. i use 1964 or 1965 in my calculations as the year this began in earnest.

    i’ve been posting about this exact topic on here for about 20 years, as it relates to music, where i’ve noted that 1963 was the last year of normal birth rates in the US. or more specifically, the time period between when the industrial revolution enabled society to have a much higher carrying capacity, with birth rates far above 2 per woman, but before chemistry began reducing birth rates reliably, all the way down to below 2 per woman.

    1963 was right around the time the most europeans were born per year in the US, with the lowest amount of dysgenic fertility, and the highest level of human capital.

    real musicians first appear at around 21 or 22, and peak around 27 or 28. so, doing the math once again, the earliest possible time that a baby boomer musician might appear on the national scene is 1946 + 21 or 22 = 1967 or 1968. as steve correctly notes, there were maybe 2 or 3 total at woodstock. everybody else of prominence was born before world war 2 ended. the guys who would become famous musicians after woodstock, weren’t old enough yet to do anything important in 1969.

    this is why i say that 1963 or so is the key year. 1963 + 27 = 1990 or 1991. the all time peak of music. you had the biggest cohort, with the highest genetic value and most talent, all peaking around the same time, with a 10 year spread of people from ages 22 to 32, the important years for a musician.

    of course in practice this is not a sharp line, but a fuzzy one, with the music talent pool (and most other talent pools) declining in a gradiated way as you moved beyond the early 60s. sports are one of the only things not affected by this, as the body is mostly mechanical, so simply throwing more bodies at a sports problem, pun somewhat intended, increases the participation rate and level of performance. whereas since the brain is mostly electrical, with anything that requires lots of brain function, you can’t throw bodies at some activity when you have declining genotypic brain genetics and a long term trend of dysgenic reproduction.

  141. njguy73 says:

    Here’s a 1947-born Boomer who was a national figure in the 60’s for activism:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rudd

  142. @Faraday's Bobcat

    It seems to me that the music we associate with one generation was usually created by the previous one. The ultimate 1980s band was Van Halen, led by four Boomers.

    Who is this “we”? Van Halen released three blockbuster albums before the ’70’s were over, making it obvious that they were “Boomers”.

  143. Almost No Baby Boomers Were Famous During the Sixties

    Lyndon Johnson.

    According to a bunch of young savants here, Johnson’s a boomer–along with Philip Hart and Emanuel Celler; Ronald Reagaon and Alan Simpson and Romano Mazzoli; and George H.W. Bush. Boomers all.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  144. @Achmed E. Newman

    To the extent that they were able to avoid the “urban underclasses” I suppose you have a point there.

  145. @AnotherDad

    True enough. And let’s not forget the biggest “Boomer” of them all, Chief Justice Earl Warren, b. 1891.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  146. @Ibound1

    My Father loved Jimmy Reed, Chuck Berry and most of all Fats Domino, and my “stay-at-home” Mom (which used to be called just “Mom”) played her dozen or so Elvis albums everyday as she cleaned house.

    Later, when I became a professional musician, I could tell you every note, chord, lyric and rhythmic nuance of every one of those recordings.

    An older musician – Father of a school band friend – mentored the teenage me in the mid-to-late seventies on all things Dixieland, big band, Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc. I have musically been out of touch with my generation ever since.

    The Beatles weren’t even on my radar until several years after they were no longer a going concern.

  147. Thirdtwin says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Sorry, I should have looked it up. I remembered it was “Silent” about an hour after I posted. Thanks for the correction.

  148. Kronos says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Perhaps, there’s a bit of a extreme pendulum swing from the 1970s to the 2000-? helicopter parenting. (I was born and raised in the 1990s so the 1970s stuff is more abstract and heard from family members.)

    Maybe the freedom mainly stemmed from indifference and neglect? S&H clearly point out that this was the golden era of divorce. When close to 50% of the adult population was at risk of a failed marriage. Many older family members who grew up then hit the sex, drugs, and rock and roll pretty hard. Some people simply lack the impulse control to stop and moderate that behavior. Thus, without the traditional family safety net some lives spiraled out of control and into alcoholism. (It’s probably more likely for average/lower IQ individuals but don’t quote me on that.)

    That behavior (and lawsuits) led to the police state we have now. In School, we ALL had to take classes on addiction awareness and eating disorders. (Try being forced to watch a 2-hour Lifetime story on anorexia chicks and NOT rip your eyes out.)

  149. J.Ross says:
    @anon

    upload to
    postimg.cc
    and post url
    or
    post url of pic (doesn’t always work)

    • Replies: @anon
  150. @SunBakedSuburb

    I am about the same age as Steve.
    My earliest memory of the outside world was the JFK assassination.
    I vaguely remember the Civil Rights marches.
    I remember the riots and assassinations in 1968.
    I remember Kent State and Jackson State.
    I remember the Weathermen and the SLA.
    While I was growing up it seemed like the Vietnam War had been going on forever.
    While in junior high and high school there was Watergate and the Nixon resignation and the rampant inflation of the 1970s.
    I remember growing up in a time when we simply assumed there was always a chance of nuclear war breaking out for no particular reason and without any warning.

    It was a truly strange dichotomy. An almost idyllic childhood in simpler yet more prosperous times while it seemed the world was about to fall apart and could literally end with 15 minutes warning or less.

  151. Anonymous[237] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Maybe Marc Bolan of T-Rex or David Bowie.

  152. Anonymous[237] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vinteuil

    http://www.covermesongs.com/2013/05/five-good-covers-i-want-you-back-the-jackson-5.html

    Michael Jackson, still a couple years away from his teens, delivered a vocal Dave Marsh called “just beyond belief, nuanced and knowing but at the same time, young and innocent.”

  153. MBlanc46 says:
    @Nathan

    Absolutely. The oldest of us (including me) turned 14 in 1960 and 24 in 1970. Not a lot a people, except in sports and entertainment, as Steve Sailer points out, achieve fame before age 25. The sixties weren’t a product of the Boomers, the Boomers were a product of the sixties.

  154. @TomSchmidt

    It seems wrong to count Eddie Vedder , Courtney Love , Lenny Kravitz and Keanu Reeves as Baby boomers while Jim Morrison , Janis Joplin , Debbie Harry , Joni Mitchell and Michael Douglas are part of the Silent Generation

    The term Generation-X , was first popularized by Douglass Coupland’s best seller “Generation X – Tales of an accelerated Culture “ described Gen X as those born from 1961-1979. This seems to fit better. My friends born in 1963 never felt they were baby boomers , having to recollection of JFK nor did they have to register for the draft nor did they remember the Beatles on Ed Sullivan.

    While my Uncle and Aunt born in 1943 and 1944 certainly seem like typical boomers. My uncle attended Woodstock and was drafted in 1966.

  155. MBlanc46 says:
    @JMcG

    Oh yes, Canned Heat. They’re on my portable music player. Going Up the Country, On the Road Again, Rollin’ and Tumblin’, Bullfrog Blues, and the ultimate Hippie anthem, Let’s Work Together. If not for Alan Wilson’s early death, they would have been huge.

  156. Axilon says:

    And your point is….?
    You could try David Bowie (Jan. 1947), Marc Bolan (Sept. 1947), Iggy Pop (Apr 1047), Duane Allman (Nov. 1946), Gregg Allman (Dec. ’47), and I’m sure I could go on, but what’s your POINT?

  157. JMcG says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    I think the guys who got their wings in late 43 or early 44 had it made. Flying great planes against a much diminished enemy, whether Japs or Germans. What a life that must have been.

  158. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Steve Sailer

    1940-1960 would probably fit cultural history better.

    Makes a lot more sense than 1945-64 although personally I’d be inclined to go for 1935-1955.

    There’s an enormous cultural chasm between those who were marinated in the hippie culture and those who embraced the punk culture. Someone who thinks Imagine is the greatest song ever and that Woodstock was the most significant cultural event ever has absolutely zero in common with someone who thinks that the greatest bands in history were The Clash or Siouxsie and the Banshees.

    You’ll find a similar chasm with regard to other types of pop culture. There’s an irreconcilable difference between the 1935-1955 cohort who are likely to think the greatest movies of all time were 2001: A Space Odyssey and Easy Rider and on the other hand those for whom Star Wars was the pinnacle of cinematic greatness.

    You’ll see it in science fiction. The 1935-1955 lot will probably worship Heinlein. The later cohort were more likely to have embraced cyberpunk.

    The drugs of choice for the 1935-1955 cohort were weed and acid. The drugs of choice for the following cohort were speed and coke.

    1955 seems to be a significant cultural cut-off date for births. It’s also significant that those born up to 1955 were reaching adulthood under the shadow of the Vietnam War. Those who were born after 1955 were reaching adulthood under the shadow of the Oil Crisis.

  159. Prosa123 says:

    Regarding the question of ideal years in which to be born, I’d go with 1975. You would have entered the workforce during the excellent economic times of the mid-1800’s. By the time the recession came along in 2008, you would have had enough time on the job to be leas less vulnerable to layoffs than more recent hires, and if worse came to worst you would have been young enough to look for another job without running into age discrimination issues.

  160. dfordoom says: • Website
    @James Braxton

    And despite being the biggest cohort in history, the baby boom produced no one who would be placed in the top 100 American novelists.

    I’d argue for William Gibson as the greatest American novelist produced by the Baby Boom. Would he make an all-time Top 100 list? Probably.

    • Replies: @James Braxton
  161. athEIst says:
    @Steve Sailer

    So Jimmy Carter has almost as much black ancestry(0%) as Elizabeth Warren has Indian(.1%). Must not have needed any Peanut Grower of Color.

  162. @Prodigal son

    I thought Generation X came from Billy Idol’s pop-punk band Generation X in the late 1970s. Their first single was “Your Generation,” a response to The Who’s “My Generation:”

    “Your generation don’t mean a thing to me”

    • Replies: @Franz
    , @Prodigal son
  163. J1234 says:
    @Luke

    The pic came as a pair. I tried posting another pic of Jimmy but it wouldn’t take and I didn’t catch it until the edit time was almost up, so I grabbed the first pic I could find of Jimmy at his most Asian looking.

    So what do you think? He strikes me as rather Japanese in appearance. Looks a lot like this guy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Page

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  164. @Cagey Beast

    Right. However, the Popeyes on Laurel Canyon in Valley Village was probably never a hangout of Jim Morrison.

  165. njguy73 says:
    @Prodigal son

    It seems wrong to count Eddie Vedder , Courtney Love , Lenny Kravitz and Keanu Reeves as Baby boomers

    Anyone who would call them Boomers has no business using the word “generation” in any context.

  166. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    I once did an experiment going back in blocks by 20 years or so, and realized Boomers’ ancestors were a lot more likely to have fought in the American Civil War because they were around the right age to be young soldiers. I’ve always figured that was why Boomers were so radical. In fact, Boomers are also more likely to have had ancestors who fought in World War I as well as World War II. The normies in their ancestral population were likely killed off.

    I was born right on the dividing line that defines the Boomer cohort, and I don’t have any ancestors who fought in WW II or WW I, or the Spanish American War or the Civil War. Everyone in my ancestry was always the wrong age, too young or too old.

  167. Franz says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I thought Generation X came from Billy Idol’s pop-punk band Generation X in the late 1970s.

    Nope. It was a loaner.

    Like lots of stuff it came from England, 1964 to be exact, and Americans “borrowed” it later.

    Generation X by Charles Hamblett —

    https://www.amazon.com/Generation-X-Charles-Hamblett-1964-11-08/dp/B01MXKXH2Y/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=generation+x+1964&qid=1566535642&s=books&sr=1-1

    The fact remains, the whole panopticon of baby-talk on generations (boomer, X, Z, Millenial, yada yada) is simply a dodge to hide talk of class which the Inner Party wanted banished from the language after World War II.

    A relevent study would focus on the sons and daughters of high-ranking military families and known intelligence operatives swarming Pop Culture just after foreign wars started heating up in 1965. A good starting point being Dave McGowan’s funny but revealing book Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon: Laurel Canyon, Covert Ops & the Dark Heart of the Hippie Dream

    The media keeps droning about crap like Woodstock to keep the operation running. Even if Miles Mathis has said much the same in several of his works, it’s not clicking. The obvious usually takes longer because neither the late Dave McGowan nor Mathis own the National Security Agency or a major television network.

    Besides which, the late 60s unrest was mostly the revenge of Red Thirties academics, frustrated that the Depression didn’t bring the Revolution. Another study would focus on how many college-age hippies were Liberal Arts students versus tech people who ignored politics then as now.

  168. Nachum says:

    Doesn’t this kind of miss the point? Most of the Baby Boomers were still kids in 1969. But it was Baby Boomers who were the masses in the 60’s, not the leaders- the people *attending* Woodstock and anti-war marches and so on.

  169. Anonymous[292] • Disclaimer says:
    @JMcG

    The biggest air battles in Western Europe happened in the spring months of 1944. Lots of dead on both sides. After that it calmed down.

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
  170. @Cagey Beast

    Isn’t Laurel Canyon where they say the CIA and/or Naval Intelligence created the hippie movement in order to sabotage the real Left?

    Gee, that worked out well. Talk about the cure being worse than the disease. It’s like creating anthrax to sabotage a measles epidemic.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  171. Svigor says:

    What’s the one about “find me one good one and I’ll spare them”? 99.9% chance it’s from the Jewish Scriptures, given YWH’S bloodlust, but I digress: you may be the boomers’ saving grace, Steve.

    • Replies: @Vinteuil
  172. @Laurence Whelk

    To be fair, best-selling and most-popular aren’t synonyms.

  173. @SaneClownPosse

    Father was trained to be a squadron nuclear weapons safety officer in New Mexico, and possibly his gonads were exposed to some loose particles.

    That’s not a nice way to refer to the lasses of Alamogordo!

  174. @Sparkon

    Del is an interesting case. He was highly thought off enough that Tom Petty name-checked him in “Runnin’ Down a Dream” in 1989, but was kind of a joke in real-time by 1966, only 5 years after “Runaway”. He was definitely a victim of the British Invasion. The reason I use 1966 is that when he released his versions of “Kicks” and “Under My Thumb”, both of which sounded like self-parody.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  175. @SaneClownPosse

    I had an uncle by marriage, who had born at the right time. He was too young for WW1 and too old for WW2. The first older person I had met that hadn’t served in a war.

    Thought it was a normal thing to have served in a war.

    Steve was even luckier, born in that 33-month period whose baby boys were never required to register with Selective Service.

    Steve won’t have to resign his position in the second Trump cabinet.

    https://www.sss.gov/Home/Men-26-and-OLDER

  176. @Paleo Liberal

    The CEOs of all the major chemical companies in those days were PhD scientists.

    The best example of this was Jack Welch, who led GE from 1981-2001 as a PhD Chemical Engineer. At the time of his retirement, GE was the most valuable company in the world at $372 billion. It is now worth $71 billion.

    It is much easier to teach scientists business than it is to teach businessmen science.

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  177. dfordoom says: • Website
    @J1234

    A more important contribution to the end to the boom would be the birth control pill,

    The introduction of the contraceptive pill was actually the most significant event of the 20th century. From that moment our civilisation was doomed.

    • Replies: @Corn
    , @AnotherDad
  178. Rock stars born during Baby Boom (1946-c. 1964) and a big deal at Woodstock (August 1969) are pretty limited in number. I can find:

    Melanie Safka Schekeryk, born Feb 3, 1947, was the only unscheduled performer to appear at Woodstock. Like Rose Marie and Liberace, she’s a Polish-Italian hybrid.

    She might not have been a “big deal” at the time, but it was at her rain-drenched performance there where the tradition of holding up little fires was born.

    Joni Mitchell (who wasn’t there) isn’t the only one to have written a hit song about the fest:

    Not her catchiest tune, but you can spot the candles in the clip here:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/woodstock-melanie-singer-songwriter-856281/

  179. @The Alarmist

    Some interesting facts about this picture:

    *The reason why Tommy Smith (the bronze medalist) is raising his left hand is that he forgot his black gloves at the hotel. Peter Norman (the silver medalist) suggested that the two share the pair of gloves that John Carlos (the gold medalist) brought.

    *As for Norman, he was ostracized in his native Australia after this for his support of Carlos and Smith and died in 2006. Carlos and Smith were pallbearers.

    *A young Chicago journalist made his bones by publicly denouncing Carlos and Smith for their protest and lauding the racist IOC Chairman Avery Brundage for kicking them out the Olympics. Despite being on the wrong side of history, he didn’t seem to suffer any long-term consequences and had a long successful career. This journalist was

    [MORE]
    Brent Musburger.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  180. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Henry8

    Baby boomers were the first consumption generation.

    There was a decade called the 1950s. That’s when consumption became the defining characteristic of civilisation. And it wasn’t the Boomers doing the consuming. It was, yep, the Silent Generation.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Hopscotch
  181. @Steve Sailer

    IIRC, Jim Morrison spent a lot of time at Barney’s Beanery in West Hollywood. And I’m guessing the whole crowd of rock n roll weirdos regularly hit Canter’s on Fairfax at four in the morning, after the Whiskey and the Rainbow Room shut down. Don Van Vliet used to go there, to eat LSD along with his pastrami sandwich. I used to see Guns N Roses there, at, yes, four o’clock in the morning.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  182. My favorite song intro was always Reflections by Diana Ross & the Supremes, which was later used for China Beach.

  183. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    My pharmacy in Sherman Oaks just over the hill from West Hollywood is a favorite of 62 year old rockers with long gray hair and black leather jackets. I imagine most of them are well-paid session musicians.

  184. @Steve Sailer

    Although I’m not Jewish myself, for rather tedious complicated reasons I am a learned judge of Jewish delis; and I will say with solemn authority that Canter’s on Fairfax is the greatest Jewish deli in the United States. It’s a national treasure. Maybe there’s some overlooked gem in Pittsburgh that I’ve missed, but I doubt it. Over by you, Jerry’s on Ventura (is it still there?) was competent and had a great location, but, glep. C’mon. Art’s in Studio City is decent, but not incandescent. Canter’s has it all.

    Weirdly, when you step out of the strict taxonomy of full-service 24-hour sit-down delis, and go out into the world of general delicatessens, the best ones are, unexpected but true, Norwegian-Irish.

    Pizza of course is far too delicate and complex a matter to discuss on a blog, even a nice one.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  185. @TorontoTraveller

    @Laurence Whelk
    “Get off my lawn, you non-melodic kids!” (shaking fist)

    https://bit.ly/2NxnvkB

  186. @Intelligent Dasein

    True. Even without the Laurel Cannon stuff, it’s clear the Establishment back in the ’60’s and ’70’s preferred the dippy hippies over the Old Left or Red Army Faction types. It’s not hard to agree with them. That said, their encouragement and indulgence of the New Left helped get us in our current mess.

    For one thing, whose brilliant idea was it to use the American university system to encourage “la French Theory”*, as the French themselves call it? Were CIA and Ford Foundation guys laughing up their sleeves as they set these obscurantists on the Left? Who’s laughing now?

    * https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Theory

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @dfordoom
  187. Anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:
    @JMcG

    Military flight training during WW2 was a bloodbath. Basically no one really knew how to teach flying until the lessons of the war were digested, plus the training aircraft could be quite treacherous. Today most of these types are considered demanding enough that you would be uninsurable without several hundred hours total time and 10 to 25 in type. I spoke with a young T-6 owner who had to have 20 hours of dual and pass two check rides before he could get coverage, and he had a hundred plus hours in Citabrias and Super Cubs.

    In the jet era, especially by the T-37/T-38 days airplanes got too expensive to wreck, and Air Force UPT got a lot safer.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  188. @J1234

    Put a beard and ‘stache on him, and you’ve almost got Pat Morita:

  189. @JMcG

    Re the Who. Pete Townsend had the utter shits (being a bit of a shit himself) from the minute he walked in. I think he demanded the Who’s fees upfront before he’d play.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  190. Corn says:
    @dfordoom

    I think it was Pat Buchanan who said that we spent decades worrying about the bomb when we should have been worrying about the pill.

  191. @Carol

    Growing up in the shadow of the Baby Boom, all you heard was how they were going to change the world. I waited and waited, and the world did change, but for the worse.

  192. Actually the birth rate in America started to climb on or about 1943. Initially it was slow but it started to take off on or about 1946, reaching the high water mark in ’57, after which it dropped off. The drop off was slow initially but over the decades has gathered steam—particularly among Caucasians.

  193. @Steve Sailer

    Certainly the term Generation X had been used prior to 1990, But writer Douglas Coupland is credited with being the first to label the Post Boomer Generation as Generation-X

    Billy Idol was a boomer , born in 1955, and his band Generation -X did not refer to the Post Boomer Generation , but he used to differentiate the late boomers from the early boomers. Those born after 1955 were certainly very different from the boomers born prior to 1950.

  194. conatus says:
    @alt right moderate

    Stalin ‘bad’???
    Good old Uncle Joe??
    Didn’t he save us from the bad White Volk?

  195. @Thirdtwin

    I think they call those folks “The Silent Generation”. They were born during the Depression when birth rates were low and became adults during the 1950’s and early 1960’s. They married young, became home owners young, found good jobs easily and progressed rapidly in their careers. They reaped the benefit of decreased cohort competition and an expanding national economy in an era of strong unions and relatively low college tuition. (At least if they were white.) My in-laws fell squarely in that group. Lucky bastards, all of them. The widely despised Baby Boomers were ultimately screwed, and for the opposite reasons – too much cohort competition combined with an economy plagued by rampant inflation, escalating income equality and, above all, the “screw the little guy” mentality of the Reagan era and beyond.

  196. @dfordoom

    What is the best book of his to serve as an introduction to his work?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Brutusale
  197. @Achmed E. Newman

    “The 1970’s may have been the freest period any people have ever seen in history.”

    Meh…maybe…maybe not. If so, it may be coincident with the fact that the Sixties “went national” early in the Seventies when even down South they started wearing bell bottoms and long hair. In “The Right Stuff” Tom Wolfe pointed out that in the Sixties while “the revolution” was in full force up north and out in what would become The Left Coast, down south they were still into beefing up the suspension. (I remember in the late Sixties watching a Dallas Cowboy game being played at the Cotton Bowl. When the announcer said that they would “Honor America” with a playing of the Star Spangled Banner I thought to myself, “…and down in Texas you damn well BETTER honor America!”)

  198. @ScarletNumber

    The best example of this was Jack Welch, who led GE from 1981-2001 as a PhD Chemical Engineer.

    By introducing Six Sigma into the mainstream, Jack Welch has done more to destroy American businesses and livelihoods than all the Leftists in government put together. If ever there was a shining example of why scientists should not be in management, Jack Welch was it.

    May that screechy bastard rot in hell.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    , @The Alarmist
  199. @Sparkon

    I love this clip. This is what a rock star’s live is: You stand and play guitar while cute babes dance around you. BTW Dell was the first person to cover a Beatles song. On one tour, he had the Beatles as his warm up band.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  200. Anon[314] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer

    the Popeyes on Laurel Canyon in Valley Village was probably never a hangout of Jim Morrison.

    Jim Morrison was known to hang out at the Wienerschnitzel across the street from that Popeyes, after hitting the Jon’s Market for bottle of Georgian Cha Cha.

  201. @Prodigal son

    Yes, I agree, which is why the Strauss and Howe generations make more sense. A boomer had to have that sense of growing up in the “high” period and some sense of the shock of disillusionment from Kennedy dying. The numbers of births collapsed right after 1964 so there were still over 4MM babies born 1961-64. But that group became teenagers starting in 1974, one year after the all-time peak of wages in inflation-adjusted terms. They never had a chance to experience the booming economy that created the boomers, except maybe for five years from 1995-2000.

    Early Boomers paid 4.4% for SS/Medicare when they started working in 1968; 1961-class paid 7% when they started working in 1984. Early Boomers could expect to profit from the following hordes (as indeed they did, along with especially the Silents); later Boomers, especially GenX, have known that the social insurance system was going to take extra from them to insure the comfort of the elders.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
    , @dfordoom
  202. @Anonymous

    Then the air force were given ground support missions to support our advancing soldiers. They also strafed airfields that had plentiful AAA guns. These missions were dangerous and costly.

  203. @ScarletNumber

    Thank you for that excellent “The Rest of the Story” information!

  204. @dfordoom

    The introduction of the contraceptive pill was actually the most significant event of the 20th century. From that moment our civilisation was doomed.

    I don’t think it necessarily meant civilization was doomed.

    But as soon as you introduce something like “The Pill”, a nation or civilization needs to do–certainly be able to do–very clear thinking about population, HBD, eugenics, then institute policies to manage its effects. Since the pill will tend to be used most/most-effectively by smart/more-conscientious women, you must take explicit eugenic measures. (Ex. fertility control of welfare cases, etc.) And obviously you can not have mass immigration–much less of foreign and/or lower IQ populations.

    But instead the Pill dovetailed with the rise of the Jews, and their minoritarian ideology. We’ve been pickled in “Jim Crow”, “Ann Frank”, “Nazis”, “slavery”, “the Holocaust”, “internment camps”, “Kristallnatcht”, “Matthew Shepard” (they couldn’t even come up with anything real for the fags), “Islamophobia”, “Emmett Till”, “Trayvon!”, “Michael Brown”, “redlining”, “MAGA caps”, “nooses”, “1619” … on and on and on … ever since.

    We aren’t even able to discuss population anymore, even immigration control, much less racial realities, much, much much less enact sane eugenic policies for a nation with the Pill and sub-replacement fertility.

  205. Sparkon says:
    @ScarletNumber

    You know, after watching that “Runaway” video full screen a few times, and reading the comments, it seems this performance and TV production was done some time well after 1961. The dancers look more like go-go girls from the mid-’60s than teenyboppers from 1961.

    Taking a stab at it, I’d say that the TV music variety show Hollywood A Go-Go, telecast from 1964-1966 on KHJ out of Los Angeles with host Sam Riddle, would be a a good candidate for the venue for this performance of Shannon’s big hit “Runaway,” #1 for four straight weeks beginning April 24, 1961, and definitely one of the anthems of the early ’60s.

    The Wiki article verifies that Shannon was on the show, and mentions the Gazzarri Dancers some of whom were recruited from Gazzarris nightclub on Sunset strip, where Johnny Rivers may have been the first act booked. I hit pay dirt with the dancers, and who wouldn’t like to have another look at some of those good looking gals who were circling around Shannon?

    Instrumental version of “Hang on Sloopy” with the Gazzarri Dancers on Hollywood A Go-Go

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  206. Art Deco says:
    @donut

    I think there’s a distinction between ‘less able student’ and ‘have no business being there’.

    Fall enrollment of young men:

    1959: 2.33 million
    1963: 2.96 million
    1969: 4.75 million
    1976: 5.80 million
    1982: 6.03 million

    During these five years, the share of total fall enrollment consisting of f/t students was, respectively, 66.5%, 66.5%, 69%, 61%, 58%.

    So, f/t male students would number about

    1959: 1.55 million
    1963: 1.97 million
    1969: 3.27 million
    1976: 3.53 million
    1982: 3.50 million

    Total live births, male during the following years:

    1938-41: 4.7 million
    1942-45: 5.6 million
    1948-51: 7.2 million
    1955-58: 8.4 million
    1961-64: 8.3 million

    So, the ratio of f/t enrollment to the original male birth cohort was:

    1959: 0.32
    1963: 0.35
    1969: 0.46
    1976: 0.42
    1982: 0.42

    I suppose you could attribute that to evading conscription (among the children of common-and-garden salaried employees and skilled workers). The thing is, the share of each cohort attending colleges and universities in 1928 was about 6%, with an additional increment attending junior colleges, teachers’ colleges, and hospital nursing schools. There’d been a l/t trend in favor of escalating use of tertiary schooling (which has continued since that time).

  207. Vinteuil says:
    @Svigor

    What’s the one about “find me one good one and I’ll spare them”?

    That’s Genesis 18:20-33. And Abraham only bargains God down to ten good ones.

    Apparently, there weren’t even ten good Sodomites.

  208. Feryl says:
    @Lot

    Boomers had more sex , did more drugs, and drank more heavily than subsequent generations, so who are the real degenerates, buddy boy?

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  209. @Steve Sailer

    I think I’ve gone on record before stating that Zeppelin’s opening for “When the Levee Breaks” gets my vote for their best, and my all time favorite:

    Bluesy, fantastic drumming, a bit country-ish, and Page guitar licks.

    Not a bad facsimile by the all-gal band Zepperella here, and they’re a bit easier on the eyes than a 70-ish Plant or Page:

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  210. @Vinteuil

    The first important piece of music in my life, from around eight, was Brahms’ First. And, indeed, I have never gotten over it.

    • Replies: @Vinteuil
  211. Feryl says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Most people probably don’t realize that almost every judge in the 1960’s Warren Court pre-dated (in some cases, by a considerable margin) the GI/World War 2/Greatest generation. Then again, I’ve always been annoyed at the way that many Boomers claim that everyone born before 1940 was part of the mythical and singular “older generation”. It’s also annoying that Boomers never put up much resistance to crazy left-wing Identity Politics horse crap (in fact, they’ve thoroughly institutionalized it since they began assuming leadership in the 1990’s), yet they still have the gall to blame past generations for America’s decline. It’s routine for “conservative” Boomers to defend gutless selling out on the grounds that fighting back would provoke bankrupting and embarrassing law-suits. But yet, if enough conservatives had actually had the balls to fight back, then via sheer numbers we could have won battles regarding affirmative action, freedom of association, and free speech. The reality is that since 1970 most “conservatives” have preferred comfort over combat.

  212. Feryl says:
    @Steve Sailer

    *Insert joke about Boomers refusing to age with grace here*

    When you’ve reached the point at which your spine has begun to compress, or your hips and/or knees are in need of replacement (or you’ve gotten the replacement already), or you no longer have a single strand of naturally colored hair left, it’s time to give up the Ramones cos-play.

    • LOL: Laurence Whelk
  213. @Laurence Whelk

    “Even in this forum.”

    “This forum”? You mean the blacks are inferior every day in every way channel.

    You mean the Queen and Quentin worshipers channel?

    You mean the poorly written winger crap channel?

    You must be kidding. Discussing Motown is a step up.

  214. @Captain Tripps

    This post reminds me I want to cast a vote for the opening of The Song Remains the Same. The documentary of the same name produced one of the most unintentionally funny lines in documentary history, showing that This Is Spinal Tap cut a little too close to the bone.

    • LOL: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  215. @Feryl

    Solipsistic Nonsense.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  216. JMcG says:
    @Anonymous

    Yeah, I’m pretty familiar with the harsh reality. I’d still give a testicle to have given it a go.

  217. njguy73 says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    How did Six Sigma destroy American businesses and livelihoods?

    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
  218. @TomSchmidt

    Agree , most demographers use 1943 as the beginning of the boomer generation because they were too young to recall WWII yet were drafted and sent to fight in Vietnam. Seems strange to include those born after 1961, they have no memory of JFK and never faced the risk of being drafted.

    Do people like George Lucas , John Kerry, Michael Douglas, Steve Martin , Tom Selleck, Goldie Hawn , David Geffen, Chevy Chase , Diana Ross actually consider themselves to be boomers or Members of the Silent Generation ?? They were all born in 1943 and 1944. My Aunts and Uncles born in these years all consider themselves boomers. While my friends and relatives born in 1963 and 1964 do not consider themselves to be boomers.

  219. Feryl says:
    @obwandiyag

    Facts are non-sense? We all have free will. Way too many young people chose to have their brains fried by the late 60’s and 70’s. All the things that a person could do in their limited time on this Earth, yet what were teenagers and young adults doing from 1967-1982? Should we be surprised at the nature of this generation’s “leadership”? They couldn’t say no to drugs or booze. They couldn’t say no to rampant promiscuity. They couldn’t step away from the dinner table (obesity levels began rising in the 80’s; Boomers traded one vice for another). They can’t say yes to financial market regulation, or legislation which would facilitate private sector unions which were destroyed with the full approval of Boomers in the 80’s and 90’s. And they can’t say yes to re-industrialization.

    History will register that as Boomers passed through each phase of life, the corresponding culture of that phase got decadent, at least in the West. In their 60’s and 70’s youth, they were mindlessly rebellious and hedonistic (the 1970’s saw the greatest wave of police killings since the roaring 20’s). In early middle age, in the 80’s and 90’s, the US became a police state which did not lock up the ruthless yuppie predators that many Boomers did nothing to stop. And once Boomers firmly were established as leaders in the 2000’s and 2010’s, every conceivable sector(economic, political, military etc.) is in a crisis that seems to get worse with each passing year. Yet, many of the Boomer commenters here still claim that the actions of previous generations rendered their generation incapable of doing better. Well, enough with the excuses.

    • Replies: @Lot
  220. @Cagey Beast

    I thought Berkley was the West Coast spook recruiting centre.

  221. @ScarletNumber

    When I see Robert Plant nowadays, I can’t decide if he looks more like a LotR character or a Garden Gnome.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  222. @JMcG

    Talk to my father. Flying B-17s as co-pilot at the age of 20, shot down just after his 21st birthday in April of 1944, spent one year in captivity in the famous Stalag Luft 3 (think The Great Escape). Forced march westwards until liberated by Patton’s Third Army.

    “What a life that must have been” indeed.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  223. J.Ross says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    >Hebrews
    >Vikings
    >Irishmen
    Ah, so the commonality is smoked fish?

  224. @The Alarmist

    I’d buy a Robert Plant garden gnome.

    • LOL: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @Lot
  225. JMcG says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    I have a little, a very little, left seat time in a B-17G. I nearly had to stand up to get enough leverage on the yoke to make a turn. I have nothing but respect for the men who flew them for hours at a time while terrified. My statement, however, stands.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  226. Lot says:
    @Feryl

    Boomers wouldn’t have had so much sex and drugs if they had had Internet, video games, mass obesity, and HIV scares.

    Early Gen X (65-71) I think were the most degenerate with sex, crime and drugs. Also the most lead poisoned age cohort.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  227. Wow, here’s an obvious one I didn’t think of, born in ’46 ….

  228. Lot says:
    @Steve Sailer

    “I’d buy a Robert Plant garden gnome.”

    I couldn’t resist getting a Robert Palmer figurine.

  229. Hopscotch says:
    @dfordoom

    There is a defining difference between the Silents and the Boomers. The Silents didn’t leave $23Trillion in debt to the Boomers.

    The Silents may have consumed, but didn’t do it on someone else’s dime.

    • Replies: @Charon
  230. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    Apples and oranges. Teens didn’t buy albums, that’s why the top seller for the first half of the decade are soundtracks and cast recordings. Brits were even poorer than Americans, that’s why UK LP’s differed from the US releases; they didn’t have the hit singles on them,they were special treats to get as Christmas or birthday gifts, with all new music.

  231. @animalogic

    I’ve read that Chuck Berry always wanted cash. I would too. You could write a rather long book about artists getting screwed by managers, accountants, promoters, etc.

  232. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Cagey Beast

    True. Even without the Laurel Cannon stuff, it’s clear the Establishment back in the ’60’s and ’70’s preferred the dippy hippies over the Old Left or Red Army Faction types. It’s not hard to agree with them. That said, their encouragement and indulgence of the New Left helped get us in our current mess.

    The New Left may have been responsible for triggering complete social and cultural collapse but at least rich people can sleep more soundly in their beds knowing that they don’t have to worry about those evil socialists any more. The fact that most of the population ends up living in a degenerate dystopian and increasingly totalitarian nightmare is a small price to pay to give rich people peace of mind.

    Were the rich and powerful half a century ago evil enough to do something like that? Well, yeah, of course they were. Did they actually do it? Who knows. It does seem pretty likely.

  233. dfordoom says: • Website
    @James Braxton

    What is the best book of his to serve as an introduction to his work?

    If you like science fiction, Neuromancer (1984). If you don’t like science fiction, Pattern Recognition (2003).

  234. dfordoom says: • Website
    @TomSchmidt

    A boomer had to have that sense of growing up in the “high” period and some sense of the shock of disillusionment from Kennedy dying.

    Yes. Which means that to be a Boomer you had to be old enough when he got shot to actually know who the hell he was and to know that people thought he was a Big Deal. Anyone born after 1955 couldn’t possibly know those things. So anyone born after 1955 cannot be a Boomer in any meaningful sense. 1955 as a birth year marks, for a variety of reasons, an incredibly dramatic cultural divide.

  235. Franz says:
    @Laurence Whelk

    Then again, my gen x brother, a doctor of education who has been through every “Generations” training and seminar you could imagine, says it’s just a scam to sell books and conferences.

    Somebody finally got it right.

  236. Sparkon says:
    @flyingtiger

    Yeah, it’s great. Too bad the video quality and camera-work aren’t better. I must have heard “Runaway” 1000 times as a teenager, but I really got a kick out of this video when I found it. The dancers look like they’re bursting with energy and just having a blast, dancing to this great song.

    I also played that video with the instrumental version of “Hang On Sloopy” featuring the Gazzarri dancers on Hollywood A Go-Go. It sounds like maybe it could have been Ramsey Lewis on the piano.

    Anyway, here’s the real deal. Number 1 hit for the McCoys in October 1965 featuring Baby Boomer vocalist Rick Derringer (b. August 5, 1947) on guitar, and another rather comely dancer.

    “Hang On Sloopy”

  237. Hopscotch says:

    In terms of music, if someone was born in the 1940’s, it was a huge leg up, particularly since they were early movers on electric instruments. Jimmy Fallon illustrated this recently…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  238. @njguy73

    How did Six Sigma destroy American businesses and livelihoods?

    In numerous ways. I would love to write an entire book about this and any comment I could write here is not going to do justice to the subject, but here it is in brief.

    It starts with the fact that going after the last hundred-thousandth of a percentage point of perfection is not and can never be economical. It smacks up against a wall of diminishing returns that rips the guts out of the organization. But the corporate culture does not tolerate any dissent on this point, so everybody is forced to play along if they want to keep their jobs even as the company slowly becomes an empty shell.

    The high efficiency demands encourage overinvestment in gosh-wow technologies which never live up to their hype but which do eviscerate any individual pride, creativity, and sense of ownership in the job. Everybody is forced to tap dance around the machine. This leads to impossible schedules, inhumane working conditions, Amazon workers peeing in their water bottles, things like that. The one thing that the machine cannot handle is individuality. The whole workplace is transformed into a sort of cybernetic dance of the droids. In practice, automation only means that everybody works harder than they did before so that the machine can keep doing its job.

    Along with the degradation of labor comes its counterpart, the corruption of management. Impossible production targets result in an inevitable, widespread culture of falsification. Management is striped of its one essential functional—making decisions—and instead becomes the enforcer of rigid ideological nonsense. Eventually the good guys are forced out. Instead of prudent, experienced line bosses you get butt-kissers and naifs. This, by the way, is the perfect environment for toadyish minorities and women. They know nothing about production but they sure do know the rules of the social power game when they see it, and the PC upper honchos are ever ready to promote them. The elites want nothing more than sycophantic lapdogs who will do their bidding whom they can also virtue-signal about having discovered. In the grip of these bunglers, service standards and job satisfaction go down the toilet.

    So, thus far we have no ownership, no individuality or purpose, wasteful procedures, crummy wages, rigid ideology, bumbling apparatchiks, hypocritical central bosses—does this remind you of anything? That’s right, this is Corporate Communism, and it is the animating spirit of American economic life. We are the Soviet Union, and we are in the beginning stages of a late Soviet-era collapse.

    Once you see this all-encompassing fact it is impossible to unsee it. Six Sigma is just one particular chapter of the Leninist literature that is driving us all insane.

  239. @Intelligent Dasein

    Six Sigma wasn’t so bad. Jack Welch’s truly evil contribution to management science was “forced rankin,” more affectionately known as “rank and yank,” in which you used the results of annual performance reporting to then fire the “bottom” ten percent.

  240. @Intelligent Dasein

    Within GE, it was admitted that “Six Sigma” was actually somewhere between Three and Four Sigma, but that didn’t sound as sexy as Six Sigma. There was a lot of financial reward to be reaped in that space.

  241. @JMcG

    The one who did enjoy all of his flight time was an uncle who flew fighters in Korea. He told me that what he most enjoyed was strafing things (i.e. people).

  242. Jack D says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    GE had a good run – 127 years, founded by Thomas Edison and J.P. Morgan, pioneer producers of jet engines, etc. But at some point they became a financial company – making stuff is so old fashioned and is hard work for little gain. You’re going to make what, a nickel on every light bulb? Leave that stuff to the Chinese. You can make billions in financial manipulation just sitting at your desk. No pesky unions, no factories, no environmental issues. The only problem is that if you bet wrong, you lose billions instead of making them.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Art Deco
  243. Feryl says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    That’s right, this is Corporate Communism, and it is the animating spirit of American economic life. We are the Soviet Union, and we are in the beginning stages of a late Soviet-era collapse.

    What’s always mystified me is that neo-lib post-Reagan “conservatives” always say that the government ruins everything, just as the private sector began to stab everyone in the back.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  244. Feryl says:
    @Lot

    Early Gen X (65-71) I think were the most degenerate with sex, crime and drugs. Also the most lead poisoned age cohort

    Most of the evidence suggests that people born in the early 60’s are the most troubled, and for the sake of convenience let’s just agree that the early 60’s cohort is a hybrid of Boomer and X-er. A big difference between Boomers and X-ers is that anti-social behavior increases as you go from the earliest born Boomers to the latest born ones, whereas with X-ers the opposite is true; people born in the late 70’s are more healthy and responsible than people born in the mid-60’s. I think the key is whether you went to junior high during the most decadent youth culture period** (1967-1982) or didn’t. So people born from about 1955-1970 were hit the hardest by drugs, alcohol abuse, and promiscuity, although earlier Boomers were affected quite a bit also, just not as much as the later ones. Evidently drug use and drinking rose from 1960-1980, then began gradually declining thereafter, with 1983-1984 representing a big shift in many ways (crime declined, birth rates went up, divorce declined, Mothers Against Drunk Driving gaining relevance, and so forth).

    WRT to crime, white and black Boomers caused crime rates in cities, suburbs, and small towns to soar from 1967-1982. Whereas among X-ers, the whites caused suburbs and small towns to become safer in the late 80’s and 90’s, while black X-ers were partially responsible for the massive urban crime wave of the late 80’s and early-mid 90’s. A key indicator of this was Gen X grunge representing the detached and lazy nihilism of early 90’s white Gen X youth who couldn’t scrape themselves off the couch. Whereas black X-ers popularized macho thuggish 90’s rap, which was to the 90’s what white Boomer “bad boy” rock was to the 70’s and 80’s. That being said, white X-ers were still more violent than white early Silents and Millennials.

    **It’s usually people born in the late 50’s and 60’s who say that they first smoked cigarettes around the age of 10, first tried pot and first got drunk around the age 12, and then tried Acid/Speed/Cocaine/Heroin during high school. E.g., Jeffrey Dahmer (b. 1960) was already an alcoholic by the time he was a high school senior, and friends say it was common knowledge that he would show up to school inebriated.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @Logan
  245. Hopscotch says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Describing Jack Welch as a soulless technocrat CEO is being generous. A more accurate description is that both he and his successor, Jeff Immelt, were committing accounting fraud, and ran GE into the ground. And regardless of fraud allegations, both completely missed the IT revolution.

    Harry Markopolos, the forensic accountant who uncovered Madoff, made the allegations, after spending several months investigating GE’s financial statements. The financial press has been less than eager to dwell on it, since GE is viewed as a sacred cow and Welch is viewed as the epitome of the professional, highly-compensated CEO.

  246. Logan says:
    @Feryl

    Born in 1956.

    It’s usually people born in the late 50’s and 60’s who say that they first smoked cigarettes around the age of 10, first tried pot and first got drunk around the age 12, and then tried Acid/Speed/Cocaine/Heroin during high school.

    Boy, did I miss a lot!

    Didn’t get drunk till 18 and never have done any of the other stuff.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  247. Kronos says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    From Michael Hudson’s “J is for Junk Economics.”

    “Stalinism: The intermediate stage between capitalism and kleptocracy. One could define neoliberalism in the same way, but it concentrates economic planning in the financial centers, not in autonomous state bureaucracies.”

  248. Kronos says:
    @Feryl

    Keep in mind the “Great Society” consisted of a self-lobotomization for government institutions. You really could have a effective/competent government on par to private industry but the Civil Rights Act and such really chained it down. (The private sector got hit too but didn’t get both barrels.) It also became a cesspool for New Left peeps who just turned everything to crap. The diversity and inclusion talk today is just the same old crony/vote packing of old.

  249. @Feryl

    It’s mystifying when you think the private sector is nothing but Wal-Mart, Amzn, Goolag, and the Big Box stores. It’s less mystifying, Feryl, when you have friends who’ve run doctor’s offices, auto shops, or been in business for yourself.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  250. @Steve Sailer

    Since you all were discussing great song intros earlier, I would think some Doors songs ought to be right on up there – how about The End and When the Music’s Over? Man that Ray Manzarek’s keyboards are just about hypnotizing, even on that short song above!

  251. Vinteuil says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    The first important piece of music in my life, from around eight, was Brahms’ First. And, indeed, I have never gotten over it.

    I was thinking, last night, about “thrilling” openings…Carmina Burana, Petrushka, Feste Romane,, Prokofiev’s 3rd Piano Concerto…and then I thought of the Brahms 1st.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  252. @The Alarmist

    Anybody else remember this joke?

    “Why is Stevie Wonder always smiling?”

  253. @Sparkon

    I am old enough to remember shows like this. In my area, it was Lloyd Thaxton, IIRC.

    I thought the shows were cheesy even then and they have not aged well, especially the lip syncing and the dancing girls.

    But it was a step up from the dreary earnest solemnity of folk music.

    Micheal probably had to row his boat ashore because he was set adrift by ship mates who were tired of his singing.

  254. Sparkon says:

    On June 1, 1963, “It’s My Party” by 16-yr. old Baby Boomer Lesley Gore (b. May 2. 1946) climbed into the top spot of Billboard’s Hot 100 for a two-week run at #1, and three more weeks at #2 after being knocked out of the top spot by Kyu Sakamoto’s misnamed “Sukiyaki.”

    Gore was born Lesley Sue Goldstein in Brooklyn, and had string of pop hits in the ’60s. She passed away in 2015, and had a long relationship with her partner Lois Sassoon.

    Lesley Gore recalls that “It’s My Party” was among some two hundred demos producer Quincy Jones brought to review with her in the den of her family home in February 1963. On hearing “It’s My Party,” Gore told Jones: “That’s not half bad. I like it. Good melody. Let’s put it on the maybe pile.” The song proved to be the only demo Gore and Jones found agreeable. With Jones producing and Claus Ogerman handling arranging and conducting duties, Gore recorded ‘It’s My Party’ at Bell Sound Studios in Manhattan on March 30, 1963.

    Sure, most average young aspiring Jewish girl singers in 1963 could expect Quincy Jones to stop by with 100 demos.

    However that worked, it would appear that Lesley Gore claimed the first #1 hit by a Baby Boomer in the 1960s with “It’s My Party.”

    “Fingertips – Pt. 2” by Little Stevie Wonder (b. May 13, 1950) hit #1 on Aug. 17, 1963 for a three week run at the top spot, so it was Gore by a nose.

    “It’s My Party” Lesley Gore

  255. MEH 0910 says:

  256. Lagertha says:

    and, most of them have HepC or some other disgusting disease. I hated Hippies – they were smelly – older than me/not MY Generation. Olfactory memories are now heralded as very important in the research in Alzheimer’s Disease. I just detest smelly people or situations- I also, despise Tattoos! Way to beckon melanoma!

  257. Charon says:
    @Hopscotch

    The debt (both public and private) really exploded under Reagan and Bush I. Then again under Bush II.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  258. Feryl says:
    @Logan

    I didn’t say everyone followed those trends. Also, you’re a bit too old to have been fully affected by the Jimmy Carter era, which is when drinking and drug use peaked. Those born in the early-mid 60’s were in junior high and/or high school during that era, and the damage inflicted on many of those poor people will never be repaired.

    I looked at a list of celebrity over dose victims, and 1967 was the most common birth date. They would’ve been 10, 11, 12, and 13 during the Carter admin. The vast majority of these now dead people would’ve told you that they first got really drunk and/or really high during that time period. Substance abuse when very young is generally an indicator of heavy and sustained chemical dependency throughout life.

    • Replies: @Prodigal son
  259. @Feryl

    You are correct ,drinking and drug use must have peaked around 1980-81. Most people do not realize how prominent drinking and drug use was in Junior high schools from 1978-1982 when the Cheech and Chong films were popular. Most of the teenage films of the era had drug references..the drinking age was also 18 in many states back then.

    I Started junior high in 1981 in 7th grade…the ninth graders were a very bad influence on us. In eighth grade I smoked weed for the first time , it seemed that about 30% of eighth grade boys had smoked pot and about half of us had drank booze. I was considered a jock ,and was captain of the football team in junior high , thus was not one of the “druggies” , but did get high almost every week. Our star running back would usually get high before each game.

    In 1982 my junior high became a middle school , which was a much better environment for the younger kids. my friends older siblings all seemed to be bigger drug users and drinkers than us and my friends younger siblings used less than us. So it seemed to peak with kids born in 1967. Almost all my friends who had older siblings who were doing Blow and crank in 1984-85 when they were 17 and 18. But when I was 18 in 1987 coke and crank were less popular, the death of Len Bias had a big effect, as did the growing AIDS epidemic.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  260. @Vinteuil

    Not only is it wonderful in itself, but for me the effect is so deeply nostalgic as to be nearly unbearable.

    My greatest friend and I (both aged ten or eleven by this time) used to listen to it together in something akin to a trance. Afterwards we would pore over a map of the world and:

    1. plot world conquest, which we didn’t manage;

    2. look for ways to escape to Europe, which we did.

    • Replies: @Vinteuil
  261. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ah yes, the little remembered SMCC.

    I can now say, I think, I had a chance for a little romance with her, but I was really, really drunk. That is very unusual for me, but there I was.

    In retrospect, it may have been for the best. She was a sad woman, afflicted with depression and anxieties, and she tried to distract herself from her internal torture with open legs. I’d be ashamed of myself now, I’m sure.

    A few months after that encounter, she jumped from a sixteenth (?) or so story window onto a Manhattan sidewalk, a note in her raincoat pocket, her apartment all in order. Her family had a history of mental illnesses and depression, and her dying without having children may have been a blessing. I can’t imagine motherhood would have helped her, probably would have made her predicament worse.

    But she was, in her own way, magnificently talented. She spoke and sang in several languages, and often turned out offbeat renditions of standards that brought out things previous versions never did. She was tough to market because she was not pigeonholeable as a pure jazz singer, and not a Broadway musical performer who could be marketed on original cast albums or for her current show tune renditions.

    Politically she was, of course, a hard core lefty, and godless. She grew up in that kind of household. And she was no classical beauty. But she was, in person, someone who had the air of elegance and sophistication and class. She was likeable, even lovable. Her death shocked and hurt a lot of people; only her closest friends knew how much trouble she was in.

    News
    JAZZ SINGER LEAPS TO HER DEATH

    By Philip Messing

    May 20, 2001 | 4:00am

    A critically acclaimed jazz and cabaret singer who was depressed over losing her recording contract and her latest gig jumped to her death yesterday, police said.

    Susannah McCorkle, 55, who had a repertoire of 3,000 songs and performed in major clubs and concert halls across the country, plunged from her 16th-floor apartment on the Upper West Side.

    Friends told police she was depressed over the career setbacks of losing her contract and her playing date, sources said.

    She left a suicide note, but police would not reveal its contents.

    McCorkle battled depression all her life, and “she may have reached the end of her rope,” said her ex-husband, Dan DiNicola, a TV reporter in Schenectady. Still, he said, “she was capable of great joy, which came through in her singing.”

    McCorkle, whose 19th album is due to appear this summer, was known for a gimmick-free style and an ability to convey a wide range of emotions.

    “She may have been the finest of all the cabaret artists that we’ve had at the Oak Room,” said Arthur Pomposello, manager of the famous night spot in Manhattan’s Algonquin Hotel.

    “In fact, she may have been the best jazz singer working in cabaret, and that’s a credit to her talent.”

    McCorkle discovered jazz in 1970, when she heard the legendary Billie Holiday while studying languages in Paris.

    She had an offer to become a translator at the European Common Market in Brussels, but instead, she went to London to launch a singing career.

    She was also an accomplished writer, and was working on a novel when she died.

    Critics called her one of the finest jazz singers in the United States.

    https://nypost.com/2001/05/20/jazz-singer-leaps-to-her-death/

  262. @Charon

    Obama doubled the national debt in 8 years, from 10 trillion to 20 trillion dollars.

  263. Feryl says:
    @Prodigal son

    You are correct ,drinking and drug use must have peaked around 1980-81. Most people do not realize how prominent drinking and drug use was in Junior high schools from 1978-1982 when the Cheech and Chong films were popular. Most of the teenage films of the era had drug references..the drinking age was also 18 in many states back then.

    Fast times at Ridgemont High (1982) is probably the best representation of how hedonistic teenagers were before the 80’s really started in 1983. Drugs, drunk driving, indifference to school performance, getting pregnant, etc. Flash forward to the Breakfast Club in 1985, and teenagers are feeling a lot more pressure to succeed, and clearly are judgemental towards “slackers”, sluts, and druggies (the nerd character is shamed for having porn in his wallet). People are sorting into cliques, also. Notably, both movies were big hits, but who was the audience for each movie? With Fast Times, the audience would’ve been mostly born in the early-mid 60’s (e.g., the most hedonistic generation). With the Breakfast Club, the audience would’ve been born mostly in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Those born in the late 60’s and early 70’s aren’t as out of control.

    Almost all my friends who had older siblings who were doing Blow and crank in 1984-85 when they were 17 and 18. But when I was 18 in 1987 coke and crank were less popular, the death of Len Bias had a big effect, as did the growing AIDS epidemic.

    I seem to recall reading that coke use peaked with people born in 1961, given that coke is expensive, was used the most in the early 80’s, and was more associated with college parties than high school parties. But all forms of drug use declined quite a bit in the late 80’s, though the damage done to people born in the 1950’s and 60’s was never going to be repaired (these are the generations who still are hitting the bottle hard). Some commenter whose name escapes me once said on this site that whenever he went to a party in a mid-high tier neighborhood as a teenager from 1982-1987, coke was always present, then in 1988 it became scarce seemingly overnight. I would attribute this in large part to people born mid-70’s being much more responsible than those born in the 1960’s (I know a guy born in 1976 who did not even try pot until he went to college).

  264. Vinteuil says:
    @Old Palo Altan

    If memory serves, I was 13 when Brahms, starting with the 1st Symphony, burst upon my horizon. I was hording my lunch money and surreptitiously spending it on LPs at a used record store near Santa Fe High School, and one day the proprietor suggested that I might want to branch out beyond Beethoven…

    I’m sorry you & your greatest friend didn’t manage world conquest. If you had, no doubt all would be well, by now.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
  265. Brutusale says:
    @James Braxton

    I’d start with his collection of short stories, Burning Chrome. His novels have tended to be parts of series (the Sprawl trilogy, the Bridge Trilogy, the Blue Ant Trilogy), and his next is reputed to be a continuation of the world of his last novel, The Peripheral.

  266. @Vinteuil

    That world conquest would have gone very well for my friend and me; for the rest, I am not so sure. Our Leitmotif was never the common good.

    13 is the age of change: for me it was from the 19th to the 17th century; from Brahms to, not so much Bach, whom I already knew and played, but to Monteverdi, and then his German pupils like Schütz, Schein, and Scheidt. (Yes, I know, but the alliteration is just too tempting).

    Santa Fe, New Mexico? Anyway, I remember my record-buying haunt in Palo Alto at the same age: Deutsche Grammophon and Das Alte Werk were my lodestars.

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