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ABN comments:

I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks. It’s like how the most anti-colonial element of society in the former European empires was the Westernized native elite rather than traditionalist tribal elders.

In a saner world, the Talented Tenth would have an aristocratic attitude of protective paternalism toward black proles, in the spirit of Booker Washington. In actuality, black ethnocentrism, despite being a fundamentally conservative trait, gets filtered through the ideology of the white liberals who run post-white America.

So instead of straightforward tribal noblesse oblige, gentry blacks like TNC (and Obama) live by the fundamentally dishonest and passive-aggressive code of leftism: all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. They lie that D’Shawntavious is their social equal, and the implausibility of that claim means they have to lie again by claiming that Whitey is a wrecker.

I actually kind of pity middle-class blacks who wish to be champions of their people even as they operate within an ideological framework created by leftists who despise their own people.

 
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  1. We don’t have bums in our town, Marge, and if we did they wouldn’t rush, they’d be allowed to go at their own pace

    • Replies: @Lugash
    I am Lugash!

    (Nice reference to the Simpsons)

    , @Danindc
    You ever see a guy say goodbye to a shoe?
  2. Cognitive dissonance.

  3. RE: elite Blacks,

    WEB Du Bois is the template for Black radical intellectuals.And Du Bois was, by instinct, profoundly conservative and elitist.Cf how he applauded the guilty verdicts in the Haymarket Riot (in contrast, Oliver Wendell Holmes and William Dean Howells publicly protested the trials), idolized Kaiser Wilhelm (to the point of growing “Kaiser Bill” moustache), etc

    As for the sources of his philosophy…..Arthur Herman, in his The Idea of Decline in Western History (187-220), notes the tremendous impact that DuBois’ time in Imperial Germany (1892-94) had on his thinking.DuBois basically adapted German Romantic Blut und Boden notions to the American scene. He simply swapped Anglo-Saxons for Jews, and declared that American Blacks had the inner vitality, the authenticity, the Seelenleben (“life-soul,” “spiritual life”) that the inauthentic, parasitic Anglo-Saxons lacked.

    The affinity with Nazi thought is rather obvious

  4. More sensible comments from Bernie Sanders on immigration. He’s as leftwing as heck, but he’s smart and he’s not a slave to corporate interests, which means he can think more clearly on this issue.

    He still supports amnesty, but maybe he realizes he can only push back so far considering the present state of liberal politics.

    ‘“What they are talking about is completely opening up the border. That was the question, should we have a completely open border, so that anybody can come into the United States of America. If that were to happen, which I strongly disagree with, there is no question in my mind that that was substantially lower wages in this country.

    “When you have 36 percent of Hispanic kids in this country who can’t find jobs, and you bring a lot of unskilled workers into this country, what do you think happens to that 36 percent of kids who are today unemployed? Fifty-one percent of African-American kids? I don’t think there’s any presidential candidate, none, who thinks we should open up the borders,” said Sanders.’

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/

    • Replies: @Ed
    Seems like this is an area where the far left & far right can come together and compromise. Reduce legal immigration by eliminating or severely reducing family & chain migration, curtailing H1bs & guest worker programs, allowing for a path to legalization for existing illegals and making any future illegal migration a criminal offense.
    , @Alfa158
    Apparently Bernie is too out to lunch to realize that an amnesty is exactly the same in effect as an explicit open borders policy. The chain migration from the 20 million newly legal immigrants, plus the reinforcement of the message that U.S. immigration laws will never be enforced will bring in the next 20M, and the next 20M after that. Look at the '86 amnesty.
    Maybe Bernie knows that, and is willing to temporarily sacrifice the American worker in exchange for the annihilation of White Christian culture and the establishment of a single party State. California seems to be working out just fine for people of his political bent.
    , @Robbie
    He still supports amnesty...

    But he so smart!

    LOL!

    HAHAHAHA

    Ur post is unintentionally hilarious
  5. I think I’ve figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing “black bodies” with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black – BOD – ies – [pause], Black – BOD – ies – [pause], Black – BOD – ies – [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    • Replies: @Anon
    it is upscale version of black booties.

    also, it is more victimish since brains control the bodies.

    evil white brains control black bodies.
    , @iSteveFan

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white”
     
    I wonder how he'd reply if whites just called themselves Europeans. Would he then write, "people who think they are European"?
    , @syonredux
    He plainly has a poetic objective in mind (hence, as you note, the Homeric frequency of its use), but the phrase "black bodies" plainly does have meaning for TNC. It's a Racial-Gender Studies buzz-word, a shibboleth for the cognoscenti.Using it (and not "Blacks" or "Black people") is a sign of his position within the radical hierarchy.Old school race-men use words like Black, but that's uncool, essentialist, ante-Lacanian, pre- Derridean, etc
    , @syonredux

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.
     
    Again, it's important to note the weight behind the phrase."Whiteness," according to "Whiteness Studies" types, is an artificial thing*.It only exists in relationship to Non-Whiteness (from TNC's perspective Non-Whiteness basically means Blacks; as is true of most Black intellectuals, TNC's racial views are very much stuck in pre-1965 America)."Whites" are the masterclass, the Herrenvolk.In a truly free and democratic America, Whites would not exist, as the category has meaning only within the confines of the master-slave dialectic**




    *Of course, everything is artificial according to post-Modernists, but they seem to think that "Whiteness" is especially artificial...


    **Has TNC read Hegel? Probably not, but he's probably picked up the basics from various secondary sources.
    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    I believe part of the "Black bodies" trope, is to convey the notion that all human consciousness is essentially the same, but that some of us are irrationally punished for inhabiting bodies that look different (because those bodies are black, much as if they'd been merely coated in black paint for some obscure reason). Of course, this idea kinda does a side-step around the whole question of DNA ie., maybe those bodies look different because they ARE different. The brain, after all, is not the controller-of-the-body (as Westerners tend to think of it), but rather a part of the body. And if the body is different (rather than merely appearing to be different, due to some color variation in the skin pigments), then the brain is likely to be different too. And thus Black consciousness, and White consciousness, really are two different things. "Black bodies" is intended to prevent a person from thinking logically about DNA & race.
    , @tbraton
    "Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases."

    I think it has been well-established by now that the epic poems "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey," the first pieces of literature of Western Civilization (and some maintain still the best), were originally delivered orally (sung) by the poet Homer and later reduced to writing. It has been speculated that the repetition of phrases throughout both epic poems (which are quite long) serve as a mnemonic device making it easier for the singer (Homer or someone else) to remember the words of what are rather long poems. Scholars have found modern day bards in the Balkans who sing long poems, and the works they sing contain the same pattern of repetitious phrases to facilitate recall. There is a scene in the latter part of the Odyssey where Odysseus, having been found shipwrecked on the beach of an island near his home island of Ithaca, is being honored by the king at a feast where a bard entertains the audience after dinner by singing an epic poem about the Trojan War (where Odysseus had fought and lost many comrades during the long war) which brought Odysseus to tears, which he tried to hide from his host unsuccessfully. It should be remembered that the ancient Greeks and modern scholars both tend to place the creation of The Iliad and The Odyssey around 1000 BC, which happened to coincide with the Dark Ages of ancient Greece, their previous use of writing having been lost as a result of the Dorian invasions and only reintroduced around 800 BC by the Phoenicians. The tyrant of Athens preceding the introduction of democracy, Peisistratus, had the Iliad and Odyssey reduced to writing since there were various versions around and both epics formed an important part of Greek education, much like the Bible used to be as part of English and American educational tradition. Those written versions henceforth became the definitive versions of both epics in the ancient Greek world, as I recall.
    , @Clyde
    Right! TNC is repeating the popular buzz-phrases that help blacks bond into a force. Black bodies is one of them. Logic is out, poetry and emotional rages are in.
    The best indicator of black success in this country is their over-employment in many gov't agencies, affirmative action on steroids. Another success indicator is all the gov't welfare, housing, medical, ObamaKare out there for them. They know how to work the system which in raw terms means getting whitey (plus some Asians) to surrender their money via taxation. Of course with gov't as intermediary, but then gov't employed blacks are doing a lot of the money transferring to their brethren
  6. In a saner world, the Talented Tenth would have an aristocratic attitude of protective paternalism toward black proles, in the spirit of Booker Washington.

    If you read TNC’s oeuvre (not a task recommended for the weak-stomached), you’ll notice his rather conflicted relationship with Booker T. He does admire him for his genuine achievements, of course, but TNC is fundamentally opposed to Washington’s philosophy of Black self-improvement.Indeed, at bottom, I suspect that TNC views Washington as something of a race-traitor, though I doubt that he would ever be so blunt about a fellow Black who isn’t named Bill Cosby:

    People wondering why the GOP can’t get a foothold in the black community, need to not just think about Goldwater and Nixon. They should think about Du Bois telling black men to go fight in The Great War, and then having those veterans come home to the Red Summer of 1919. They should think about the pogroms that greeted Booker T’s compromise. There’s a lot of hurt out there. A lot of ancient hurt. A lot of it, even in these times, quite deep.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2009/03/the-tragedy-and-betrayal-of-booker-t-washington/7092/

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    And yet Republicans still had a majority of the black vote in the 1920s. Dems didn't win over blacks until FDR started given everyone free stuff in the 1930s - and that was back when the Dem coalition included southern segregationists and Klansmen.
  7. Ed says:

    I probably shouldn’t be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I’ve seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven’t missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I’ve been blissfully unaware of?

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    I can't speak for Steve, but for some folks on this post, people like TNC, Masha Gessen, Amy Chua, etc are kind of shorthand character sketches for the different ethno-identity politic strains current in this country. I also suspect that as many here have a bit of a Tom Wolfish kind of bent, identifying amusing prototypes make the discussion more fun.
    , @Gozo
    The Internet is full of people who watch B movies and then write (or film!) long descriptions of these movies, pointing out how crummy they are. I think something like that is going on here with Steve and the gang.
    , @syonredux

    Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I’ve been blissfully unaware of?
     
    Seems so.His new book is selling really well.And the Great and the Good are singing his praises.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    If you have connections with liberals through facebook or other social media, you'll find they revere Coates. They talk about him frequently on NPR. Ross Douthat, the occasionally interesting conservative at the NYT, takes Coates seriously. Whether or not you find him interesting, other people apparently do.
    , @Ozymandias
    "I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts?"

    Our esteemed host is a metaphor whore. Satire is often most comfortable couched within metaphor. Allow me to illustrate: Go to the front page at Yahoo and read through the headlines. A pattern quickly becomes apparent. Blacks in this country are under siege, they are being attacked on all fronts. They are being gunned down by police, denied opportunities to find employment, forced into substandard housing, vilified by the press, scapegoated for crime, and being discriminated against at every turn. This, of course, is total horseshit. And yet, there it is, printed in black and white, and presented to you by authority as though it is factual.

    Now let us contrast that with the issue of Mr. Coates. The same conducters who have been hired to orchestrate the above narrative are also informing us that TNC is one of America's foremost intellectuals. But even a cursory examination reveals this falsehood. I believe that FactsAreImportant did a very nice job of summing up Coates' style. All style, no substance. It is pentameter that reads better when there is no provocation of thought to distract you.

    The "meandering" piece posted by Syon is by far the best work I've ever seen from Coates. Instead of trying to wax beats he actually attempted to say something. My personal philosophy is much more closely aligned with that of Cosby, but at least Coates managed to temporarily refrain from his propensity for rabid autofellatio by pity.

    Also, a note about O'Keefe's comment "Black bodies is intended to prevent a person from thinking logically about DNA & race." People often mistake intent with outcome. Coates is simply trying to crank out poetry he can sell. The side effect you've highlighted is what gives the phrase its power, and brings praise from his masters, but it was unplanned. Coates is little more than a witch doctor reciting magic incantations.
    , @Eric
    http://www.salon.com/2015/07/27/ta_nehisi_coates_woke_me_up_lessons_on_race_atheism_and_my_white_privilege/
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/ta-nehisi-coates-between-the-world-and-me.html
    http://www.cjr.org/feature/ta-nehisi_coates_defines_a_new.php
    http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/yy2dzc/ta-nehisi-coates
    http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/n3etz1/ta-nehisi-coates
    Yea...in the world of upper class progressives, he's the hot new superstar.
  8. @Hank Scorpio
    We don't have bums in our town, Marge, and if we did they wouldn't rush, they'd be allowed to go at their own pace

    I am Lugash!

    (Nice reference to the Simpsons)

  9. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    it is upscale version of black booties.

    also, it is more victimish since brains control the bodies.

    evil white brains control black bodies.

  10. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white”

    I wonder how he’d reply if whites just called themselves Europeans. Would he then write, “people who think they are European”?

  11. Here’s TNC, in his meandering fashion, explaining what’s wrong with the notion of Black self-improvement (here’s a hint: because of White racism):

    From Birmingham to Cleveland and Baltimore, at churches and colleges, Cosby has been telling thousands of black Americans that racism in America is omnipresent but that it can’t be an excuse to stop striving. As Cosby sees it, the antidote to racism is not rallies, protests, or pleas, but strong families and communities. Instead of focusing on some abstract notion of equality, he argues, blacks need to cleanse their culture, embrace personal responsibility, and reclaim the traditions that fortified them in the past. Driving Cosby’s tough talk about values and responsibility is a vision starkly different from Martin Luther King’s gauzy, all-inclusive dream: it’s an America of competing powers, and a black America that is no longer content to be the weakest of the lot.

    Black America does not entirely share the euphoria, though. The civil-rights generation is exiting the American stage—not in a haze of nostalgia but in a cloud of gloom, troubled by the persistence of racism, the apparent weaknesses of the generation following in its wake, and the seeming indifference of much of the country to black America’s fate. In that climate, Cosby’s gospel of discipline, moral reform, and self-reliance offers a way out—a promise that one need not cure America of its original sin in order to succeed. Racism may not be extinguished, but it can be beaten.

    Cosby disparaged activists who charge the criminal-justice system with racism. “These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake,” Cosby said. “Then we all run out and are outraged: ‘The cops shouldn’t have shot him.’ What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, ‘If you get caught with it, you’re going to embarrass your mother.’”

    Then he attacked African American naming traditions, and the style of dress among young blacks: “Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what’s wrong … What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don’t know a damned thing about Africa— with names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed, and all that crap, and all of them are in jail.” About then, people began to walk out of the auditorium and cluster in the lobby. There was still cheering, but some guests milled around and wondered what had happened. Some thought old age had gotten the best of Cosby. The mood was one of shock.

    But Cosby’s rhetoric played well in black barbershops, churches, and backyard barbecues, where a unique brand of conservatism still runs strong. Outsiders may have heard haranguing in Cosby’s language and tone. But much of black America heard instead the possibility of changing their communities without having to wait on the consciences and attention spans of policy makers who might not have their interests at heart. Shortly after Cosby took his Pound Cake message on the road, I wrote an article denouncing him as an elitist. When my father, a former Black Panther, read it, he upbraided me for attacking what he saw as a message of black empowerment. Cosby’s argument has resonated with the black mainstream for just that reason.

    The split between Cosby and critics such as Dyson mirrors not only America’s broader conservative/liberal split but black America’s own historic intellectual divide. Cosby’s most obvious antecedent is Booker T. Washington. At the turn of the 20th century, Washington married a defense of the white South with a call for black self-reliance and became the most prominent black leader of his day. He argued that southern whites should be given time to adjust to emancipation; in the meantime, blacks should advance themselves not by voting and running for office but by working, and ultimately owning, the land.

    W. E. B. Du Bois, the integrationist model for the Dysons of our day, saw Washington as an apologist for white racism and thought that his willingness to sacrifice the black vote was heretical. History ultimately rendered half of Washington’s argument moot. His famous Atlanta Compromise—in which he endorsed segregation as a temporary means of making peace with southerners—was answered by lynchings, land theft, and general racial terrorism. But Washington’s appeal to black self-sufficiency endured.

    “For all the woes of segregation, there were some good things to come out of it,” Cosby and Poussaint write. “One was that it forced us to take care of ourselves. When restaurants, laundries, hotels, theaters, groceries, and clothing stores were segregated, black people opened and ran their own. Black life insurance companies and banks thrived, as well as black funeral homes … Such successes provided jobs and strength to black economic well-being. They also gave black people that gratifying sense of an interdependent community.” Although the authors take pains to put some distance between themselves and the Nation of Islam, they approvingly quote one of its ministers who spoke at a call-out in Compton, California: “I went to Koreatown today and I met with the Korean merchants,” the minister told the crowd. “I love them. You know why? They got a place called what? Koreatown. When I left them, I went to Chinatown. They got a place called what? Chinatown. Where is your town?”

    The notion of the Great Fall, and the attendant theory that segregation gave rise to some “good things,” are the stock-in-trade of what Christopher Alan Bracey, a law professor at Washington University, calls (in his book, Saviors or Sellouts) the “organic” black conservative tradition: conservatives who favor hard work and moral reform over protests and government intervention, but whose black-nationalist leanings make them anathema to the Heritage Foundation and Rush Limbaugh. When political strategists argue that the Republican Party is missing a huge chance to court the black community, they are thinking of this mostly male bloc—the old guy in the barbershop, the grizzled Pop Warner coach, the retired Vietnam vet, the drunk uncle at the family reunion. He votes Democratic, not out of any love for abortion rights or progressive taxation, but because he feels—in fact, he knows—that the modern-day GOP draws on the support of people who hate him. This is the audience that flocks to Cosby: culturally conservative black Americans who are convinced that integration, and to some extent the entire liberal dream, robbed them of their natural defenses.

    “There are things that we did not see coming,” Cosby told me over lunch in Manhattan last year. “Like, you could see the Klan, but because these things were not on a horse, because there was no white sheet, and the people doing the deed were not white, we saw things in the light of family and forgiveness … We didn’t pay attention to the dropout rate. We didn’t pay attention to the fathers, to the self-esteem of our boys.”

    Indeed, a century ago, the black brain trust was pushing the same rhetoric that Cosby is pushing today. It was concerned that slavery had essentially destroyed the black family and was obsessed with seemingly the same issues—crime, wanton sexuality, and general moral turpitude—that Cosby claims are recent developments. “The early effort of middle-class blacks to respond to segregation was, aside from a political agenda, focused on a social-reform agenda,” says Khalil G. Muhammad, a professor of American history at Indiana University. “The National Association of Colored Women, Du Bois in The Philadelphia Negro, all shared a sense of anxiety that African Americans were not presenting their best selves to the world. There was the sense that they were committing crimes and needed to keep their sexuality in check.” Adds William Jelani Cobb, a professor of American history at Spelman College: “The same kind of people who were advocating for social reform were denigrating people because they didn’t play piano. They often saw themselves as reluctant caretakers of the less enlightened.”

    If Cosby’s call-outs simply ended at that—a personal and communal creed—there’d be little to oppose. But Cosby often pits the rhetoric of personal responsibility against the legitimate claims of American citizens for their rights. He chides activists for pushing to reform the criminal-justice system, despite solid evidence that the criminal-justice system needs reform. His historical amnesia—his assertion that many of the problems that pervade black America are of a recent vintage—is simply wrong, as is his contention that today’s young African Americans are somehow weaker, that they’ve dropped the ball. And for all its positive energy, his language of uplift has its limitations. After the Million Man March, black men embraced a sense of hope and promise. We were supposed to return to our communities and families inspired by a new feeling of responsibility. Yet here we are again, almost 15 years later, with seemingly little tangible change. I’d take my son to see Bill Cosby, to hear his message, to revel in its promise and optimism. But afterward, he and I would have a very long talk.

    Part of what drives Cosby’s activism, and reinforces his message, is the rage that lives in all African Americans, a collective feeling of disgrace that borders on self-hatred. As the comedian Chris Rock put it in one of his infamous routines, “Everything white people don’t like about black people, black people really don’t like about black people … It’s like a civil war going on with black people, and it’s two sides—there’s black people and there’s niggas, and niggas have got to go … Boy, I wish they’d let me join the Ku Klux Klan. Shit, I’d do a drive-by from here to Brooklyn.” (Rock stopped performing the routine when he noticed that his white fans were laughing a little too hard.) Liberalism, with its pat logic and focus on structural inequities, offers no balm for this sort of raw pain. Like the people he preaches to, Cosby has grown tired of hanging his head.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/05/-this-is-how-we-lost-to-the-white-man/306774/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You don't need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.
    , @Harry Baldwin
    African Americans really have a difficult hand to play. They can go with the flow and blame all their problems on white racism. That's easy, and absolves them of all responsibility, but also means they will always depend on the kindness of strangers. On the other hand, they can listen to Booker T. Washington, Bill Cosby, and Louis Farrakhan who advise them to study hard, stay off drugs, don't have out-of-wedlock kids, police themselves, and invest in their own community. But in the cold light of day, they know those things aren't really going to work out. Most are not going to do well in school, aren't going to adequately defer gratification, and aren't going to be successful in business. So that route just leads to a realization of their own inability to keep up or compete. Which leads them back to blaming whitey as the more palatable explanation.
  12. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    He plainly has a poetic objective in mind (hence, as you note, the Homeric frequency of its use), but the phrase “black bodies” plainly does have meaning for TNC. It’s a Racial-Gender Studies buzz-word, a shibboleth for the cognoscenti.Using it (and not “Blacks” or “Black people”) is a sign of his position within the radical hierarchy.Old school race-men use words like Black, but that’s uncool, essentialist, ante-Lacanian, pre- Derridean, etc

    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    TNC is definitely down with the genderqueer/intersectional crowd. Not as a full fledged member but as an "ally". Even people like Tim Wise use "black folks".
  13. There’s a difference between Coates and Obama. Coates grew up in West Baltimore without having any white friends until he was 20. So you can’t say “they basically live among white people according to white norms” the same way for Coates and for Obama.

    He admitted this isolation might have given him prejudices in his 2008 discussion with John McWhorter:
    http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/1794?in=25:38&out=32:54
    At another point he also admits how stunned he was that Obama won the Iowa caucus. He was certain that whites wouldn’t vote for a black guy vs. the white woman.

    So they are not the same kind of “gentry blacks” — Coates is perhaps more authentic, and naive, than Obama, since he really viewed white society from the outside in his formative years.

    • Replies: @ABN
    Yeah, Obama is a somewhat different case because he is literally and figuratively both an ethnocentric black crypto-conservative and an SWPL. I think Steve once referred to him as the Henry Tudor of modern liberalism.

    As for TNC, you make a good point. Still, who butters TNC's bread? Who reads him in the Atlantic? Who goes in for his cat-lady-book-club prose? Mostly white liberals, I would think.
  14. @Ed
    I probably shouldn't be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I've seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven't missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I've been blissfully unaware of?

    I can’t speak for Steve, but for some folks on this post, people like TNC, Masha Gessen, Amy Chua, etc are kind of shorthand character sketches for the different ethno-identity politic strains current in this country. I also suspect that as many here have a bit of a Tom Wolfish kind of bent, identifying amusing prototypes make the discussion more fun.

  15. @Ed
    I probably shouldn't be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I've seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven't missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I've been blissfully unaware of?

    The Internet is full of people who watch B movies and then write (or film!) long descriptions of these movies, pointing out how crummy they are. I think something like that is going on here with Steve and the gang.

    • Replies: @ABN

    The Internet is full of people who watch B movies and then write (or film!) long descriptions of these movies, pointing out how crummy they are. I think something like that is going on here with Steve and the gang.
     
    Mystery Sailer Theater 3000.
  16. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    Again, it’s important to note the weight behind the phrase.”Whiteness,” according to “Whiteness Studies” types, is an artificial thing*.It only exists in relationship to Non-Whiteness (from TNC’s perspective Non-Whiteness basically means Blacks; as is true of most Black intellectuals, TNC’s racial views are very much stuck in pre-1965 America).”Whites” are the masterclass, the Herrenvolk.In a truly free and democratic America, Whites would not exist, as the category has meaning only within the confines of the master-slave dialectic**

    *Of course, everything is artificial according to post-Modernists, but they seem to think that “Whiteness” is especially artificial…

    **Has TNC read Hegel? Probably not, but he’s probably picked up the basics from various secondary sources.

  17. Robert Conquest claimed “everyone is conservative about what he knows best” as his First Law of Conservatism. I’m sure he wasn’t the first to notice it.

    Public school teachers are right-wing about public education, prison psychologists about sentencing, former Peace Corps volunteers about Africa, etc. But very often these people are left-wing about everything else. Instead of generalizing from their area of expertise to the entire world (“if the powers that be lie about what I know, they probably lie about everything else”) most people subconsciously assume that their area of expertise is an exception and that outside of it they’re getting factual information. People who’ve long ago concluded that the media lies about their own country’s politics believe what this same media says about other countries’ politics. Humans are just gullible by nature.

  18. @Hank Scorpio
    We don't have bums in our town, Marge, and if we did they wouldn't rush, they'd be allowed to go at their own pace

    You ever see a guy say goodbye to a shoe?

  19. @syonredux
    Here's TNC, in his meandering fashion, explaining what's wrong with the notion of Black self-improvement (here's a hint: because of White racism):

    From Birmingham to Cleveland and Baltimore, at churches and colleges, Cosby has been telling thousands of black Americans that racism in America is omnipresent but that it can’t be an excuse to stop striving. As Cosby sees it, the antidote to racism is not rallies, protests, or pleas, but strong families and communities. Instead of focusing on some abstract notion of equality, he argues, blacks need to cleanse their culture, embrace personal responsibility, and reclaim the traditions that fortified them in the past. Driving Cosby’s tough talk about values and responsibility is a vision starkly different from Martin Luther King’s gauzy, all-inclusive dream: it’s an America of competing powers, and a black America that is no longer content to be the weakest of the lot.
     

    Black America does not entirely share the euphoria, though. The civil-rights generation is exiting the American stage—not in a haze of nostalgia but in a cloud of gloom, troubled by the persistence of racism, the apparent weaknesses of the generation following in its wake, and the seeming indifference of much of the country to black America’s fate. In that climate, Cosby’s gospel of discipline, moral reform, and self-reliance offers a way out—a promise that one need not cure America of its original sin in order to succeed. Racism may not be extinguished, but it can be beaten.
     

    Cosby disparaged activists who charge the criminal-justice system with racism. “These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake,” Cosby said. “Then we all run out and are outraged: ‘The cops shouldn’t have shot him.’ What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, ‘If you get caught with it, you’re going to embarrass your mother.’”

    Then he attacked African American naming traditions, and the style of dress among young blacks: “Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what’s wrong … What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don’t know a damned thing about Africa— with names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed, and all that crap, and all of them are in jail.” About then, people began to walk out of the auditorium and cluster in the lobby. There was still cheering, but some guests milled around and wondered what had happened. Some thought old age had gotten the best of Cosby. The mood was one of shock.

     


    But Cosby’s rhetoric played well in black barbershops, churches, and backyard barbecues, where a unique brand of conservatism still runs strong. Outsiders may have heard haranguing in Cosby’s language and tone. But much of black America heard instead the possibility of changing their communities without having to wait on the consciences and attention spans of policy makers who might not have their interests at heart. Shortly after Cosby took his Pound Cake message on the road, I wrote an article denouncing him as an elitist. When my father, a former Black Panther, read it, he upbraided me for attacking what he saw as a message of black empowerment. Cosby’s argument has resonated with the black mainstream for just that reason.
     

    The split between Cosby and critics such as Dyson mirrors not only America’s broader conservative/liberal split but black America’s own historic intellectual divide. Cosby’s most obvious antecedent is Booker T. Washington. At the turn of the 20th century, Washington married a defense of the white South with a call for black self-reliance and became the most prominent black leader of his day. He argued that southern whites should be given time to adjust to emancipation; in the meantime, blacks should advance themselves not by voting and running for office but by working, and ultimately owning, the land.



    W. E. B. Du Bois, the integrationist model for the Dysons of our day, saw Washington as an apologist for white racism and thought that his willingness to sacrifice the black vote was heretical. History ultimately rendered half of Washington’s argument moot. His famous Atlanta Compromise—in which he endorsed segregation as a temporary means of making peace with southerners—was answered by lynchings, land theft, and general racial terrorism. But Washington’s appeal to black self-sufficiency endured.

     


    “For all the woes of segregation, there were some good things to come out of it,” Cosby and Poussaint write. “One was that it forced us to take care of ourselves. When restaurants, laundries, hotels, theaters, groceries, and clothing stores were segregated, black people opened and ran their own. Black life insurance companies and banks thrived, as well as black funeral homes … Such successes provided jobs and strength to black economic well-being. They also gave black people that gratifying sense of an interdependent community.” Although the authors take pains to put some distance between themselves and the Nation of Islam, they approvingly quote one of its ministers who spoke at a call-out in Compton, California: “I went to Koreatown today and I met with the Korean merchants,” the minister told the crowd. “I love them. You know why? They got a place called what? Koreatown. When I left them, I went to Chinatown. They got a place called what? Chinatown. Where is your town?”
     

    The notion of the Great Fall, and the attendant theory that segregation gave rise to some “good things,” are the stock-in-trade of what Christopher Alan Bracey, a law professor at Washington University, calls (in his book, Saviors or Sellouts) the “organic” black conservative tradition: conservatives who favor hard work and moral reform over protests and government intervention, but whose black-nationalist leanings make them anathema to the Heritage Foundation and Rush Limbaugh. When political strategists argue that the Republican Party is missing a huge chance to court the black community, they are thinking of this mostly male bloc—the old guy in the barbershop, the grizzled Pop Warner coach, the retired Vietnam vet, the drunk uncle at the family reunion. He votes Democratic, not out of any love for abortion rights or progressive taxation, but because he feels—in fact, he knows—that the modern-day GOP draws on the support of people who hate him. This is the audience that flocks to Cosby: culturally conservative black Americans who are convinced that integration, and to some extent the entire liberal dream, robbed them of their natural defenses.

    “There are things that we did not see coming,” Cosby told me over lunch in Manhattan last year. “Like, you could see the Klan, but because these things were not on a horse, because there was no white sheet, and the people doing the deed were not white, we saw things in the light of family and forgiveness … We didn’t pay attention to the dropout rate. We didn’t pay attention to the fathers, to the self-esteem of our boys.”
     

    Indeed, a century ago, the black brain trust was pushing the same rhetoric that Cosby is pushing today. It was concerned that slavery had essentially destroyed the black family and was obsessed with seemingly the same issues—crime, wanton sexuality, and general moral turpitude—that Cosby claims are recent developments. “The early effort of middle-class blacks to respond to segregation was, aside from a political agenda, focused on a social-reform agenda,” says Khalil G. Muhammad, a professor of American history at Indiana University. “The National Association of Colored Women, Du Bois in The Philadelphia Negro, all shared a sense of anxiety that African Americans were not presenting their best selves to the world. There was the sense that they were committing crimes and needed to keep their sexuality in check.” Adds William Jelani Cobb, a professor of American history at Spelman College: “The same kind of people who were advocating for social reform were denigrating people because they didn’t play piano. They often saw themselves as reluctant caretakers of the less enlightened.”
     

    If Cosby’s call-outs simply ended at that—a personal and communal creed—there’d be little to oppose. But Cosby often pits the rhetoric of personal responsibility against the legitimate claims of American citizens for their rights. He chides activists for pushing to reform the criminal-justice system, despite solid evidence that the criminal-justice system needs reform. His historical amnesia—his assertion that many of the problems that pervade black America are of a recent vintage—is simply wrong, as is his contention that today’s young African Americans are somehow weaker, that they’ve dropped the ball. And for all its positive energy, his language of uplift has its limitations. After the Million Man March, black men embraced a sense of hope and promise. We were supposed to return to our communities and families inspired by a new feeling of responsibility. Yet here we are again, almost 15 years later, with seemingly little tangible change. I’d take my son to see Bill Cosby, to hear his message, to revel in its promise and optimism. But afterward, he and I would have a very long talk.
     

    Part of what drives Cosby’s activism, and reinforces his message, is the rage that lives in all African Americans, a collective feeling of disgrace that borders on self-hatred. As the comedian Chris Rock put it in one of his infamous routines, “Everything white people don’t like about black people, black people really don’t like about black people … It’s like a civil war going on with black people, and it’s two sides—there’s black people and there’s niggas, and niggas have got to go … Boy, I wish they’d let me join the Ku Klux Klan. Shit, I’d do a drive-by from here to Brooklyn.” (Rock stopped performing the routine when he noticed that his white fans were laughing a little too hard.) Liberalism, with its pat logic and focus on structural inequities, offers no balm for this sort of raw pain. Like the people he preaches to, Cosby has grown tired of hanging his head.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/05/-this-is-how-we-lost-to-the-white-man/306774/

    You don’t need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.

    • Agree: Glossy
    • Replies: @syonredux

    You don’t need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.
     
    I didn't; this is the edited, Reader's Digest version
    , @Lot
    I like Syon's copypasta, he's judicious in his selections.

    TNC's writing was better than. Not great, but standard quality political mag expository writing.
    , @Luke Lea
    Anonymous says:
    July 30, 2015 at 11:45 pm GMT
    @syon
    "You don’t need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it."

    How do you know, Mr. Anonymous? It's easy to scroll through if you don't want to read it.

    , @Truth
    Making comments on sources you have not read is, arguably, a bigger problem.
  20. Nope says: • Website

    In a saner world, the Talented Tenth would have an aristocratic attitude of protective paternalism toward black proles…

    Well, in this world no such black paternalism exists. Maybe because black aristocracy doesn’t exist. And it is not a function of leftism.

    There is here the failure to identify the profound difference between aristocracy and the African Big Man model of cronyism.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    "There is here the failure to identify the profound difference between aristocracy and the African Big Man model of cronyism."

    This is a very important point. When I began seriously thinking about Negro culture, society and politics (starting about fifteen years ago) one of the first things I noticed was the ubiquity of the "big man" model of social and political structure. Whenever and where ever there is a Negro community, one finds that community organizing around some one leader who represents the community to the outside world, more or less runs the community according to his whim at every level, and get's a lion's share of community resources. Usually the man is surrounded by a phalanx of men and women who act as his flunkies but inherit some of his charisma/power when dealing with ordinary members of the community. The universal existence of women in this coterie - sometimes to the entire exclusion of men - seems to be unique to Negro social organization. The women are not always sexual consorts of but do adulate the big man. This pattern seems universal from African tribes, chiefdoms and kingdoms through the local religious leaders that are ubiquitous in the USA, Caribbean, and the Guyannas and Brazil.

    I've decided that this must have something to do with Negro psychology. When better than 80% of a population have below USA average IQs, levels of self-control, linternal discount rates, and time horizons; and an apparently high innate propensity towards violence it makes sense to have things run by one of the most intelligent members of the community. And it makes further sense that this big man would exploit his position to the maximum possible extent. For Negroes this form of organization may be a feature not a bug. One more reason why it seems to me impossible to integrate Whites and Negroes into one common socio-political system that will satisfy the needs of the majorities of each race.
  21. You suggest that the black elite are the way they are because they’ve absorbed the values of the white elite. While I’m sure that’s one piece of the story, another piece has to be a selection effect. Blacks who write for The Atlantic or teach at Harvard got there because whites wanted them there.

    It starts early. Sure it helps to put on your Harvard college application that you’re black, but saying you plan to dedicate your life to the fight for civil rights will help you get in a lot more than coming across as the next Thomas Sowell.

    The system selects in favor of the most corrupt characters.

  22. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    To what extent is ‘whiteness’ Jewish or homo when people like Coates talk about it?

    Of course, the Narrative demands that they mean ‘white conservatives’ or ‘white gentiles’, but at some point, it has to dawn on the likes of Coates that, in the cities that they live in, the people who rule there are Jews, white Libs, and homo whites.

    It seems Jews stress the wrongs of the past because the reality of the present amply shows that Jews, homos, and white Libs are the ruling elites.

  23. @Anonymous
    You don't need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.

    You don’t need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.

    I didn’t; this is the edited, Reader’s Digest version

  24. @Ed
    I probably shouldn't be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I've seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven't missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I've been blissfully unaware of?

    Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I’ve been blissfully unaware of?

    Seems so.His new book is selling really well.And the Great and the Good are singing his praises.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    It'll be right up there with Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" and Picketty's "Capital in the 21st Century" on the "most-bought and least read" lists.

    What value is it to one of the white Great & Good to not praise him? Better to be an iconoclastic woman in 1690s Salem.
  25. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    I believe part of the “Black bodies” trope, is to convey the notion that all human consciousness is essentially the same, but that some of us are irrationally punished for inhabiting bodies that look different (because those bodies are black, much as if they’d been merely coated in black paint for some obscure reason). Of course, this idea kinda does a side-step around the whole question of DNA ie., maybe those bodies look different because they ARE different. The brain, after all, is not the controller-of-the-body (as Westerners tend to think of it), but rather a part of the body. And if the body is different (rather than merely appearing to be different, due to some color variation in the skin pigments), then the brain is likely to be different too. And thus Black consciousness, and White consciousness, really are two different things. “Black bodies” is intended to prevent a person from thinking logically about DNA & race.

  26. @Ed
    I probably shouldn't be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I've seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven't missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I've been blissfully unaware of?

    If you have connections with liberals through facebook or other social media, you’ll find they revere Coates. They talk about him frequently on NPR. Ross Douthat, the occasionally interesting conservative at the NYT, takes Coates seriously. Whether or not you find him interesting, other people apparently do.

  27. @European-American
    There's a difference between Coates and Obama. Coates grew up in West Baltimore without having any white friends until he was 20. So you can't say "they basically live among white people according to white norms" the same way for Coates and for Obama.

    He admitted this isolation might have given him prejudices in his 2008 discussion with John McWhorter:
    http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/1794?in=25:38&out=32:54
    At another point he also admits how stunned he was that Obama won the Iowa caucus. He was certain that whites wouldn't vote for a black guy vs. the white woman.

    So they are not the same kind of "gentry blacks" -- Coates is perhaps more authentic, and naive, than Obama, since he really viewed white society from the outside in his formative years.

    Yeah, Obama is a somewhat different case because he is literally and figuratively both an ethnocentric black crypto-conservative and an SWPL. I think Steve once referred to him as the Henry Tudor of modern liberalism.

    As for TNC, you make a good point. Still, who butters TNC’s bread? Who reads him in the Atlantic? Who goes in for his cat-lady-book-club prose? Mostly white liberals, I would think.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Mostly white liberals, I would think.
     
    Practically all of the American Studies/US History/American Lit graduate students that I know read him.And they seem to regard him as some kind of fount of wisdom regarding the evil essence that lies at the heart of America
  28. @syonredux
    Here's TNC, in his meandering fashion, explaining what's wrong with the notion of Black self-improvement (here's a hint: because of White racism):

    From Birmingham to Cleveland and Baltimore, at churches and colleges, Cosby has been telling thousands of black Americans that racism in America is omnipresent but that it can’t be an excuse to stop striving. As Cosby sees it, the antidote to racism is not rallies, protests, or pleas, but strong families and communities. Instead of focusing on some abstract notion of equality, he argues, blacks need to cleanse their culture, embrace personal responsibility, and reclaim the traditions that fortified them in the past. Driving Cosby’s tough talk about values and responsibility is a vision starkly different from Martin Luther King’s gauzy, all-inclusive dream: it’s an America of competing powers, and a black America that is no longer content to be the weakest of the lot.
     

    Black America does not entirely share the euphoria, though. The civil-rights generation is exiting the American stage—not in a haze of nostalgia but in a cloud of gloom, troubled by the persistence of racism, the apparent weaknesses of the generation following in its wake, and the seeming indifference of much of the country to black America’s fate. In that climate, Cosby’s gospel of discipline, moral reform, and self-reliance offers a way out—a promise that one need not cure America of its original sin in order to succeed. Racism may not be extinguished, but it can be beaten.
     

    Cosby disparaged activists who charge the criminal-justice system with racism. “These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake,” Cosby said. “Then we all run out and are outraged: ‘The cops shouldn’t have shot him.’ What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, ‘If you get caught with it, you’re going to embarrass your mother.’”

    Then he attacked African American naming traditions, and the style of dress among young blacks: “Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people. They are showing you what’s wrong … What part of Africa did this come from? We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans. They don’t know a damned thing about Africa— with names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed, and all that crap, and all of them are in jail.” About then, people began to walk out of the auditorium and cluster in the lobby. There was still cheering, but some guests milled around and wondered what had happened. Some thought old age had gotten the best of Cosby. The mood was one of shock.

     


    But Cosby’s rhetoric played well in black barbershops, churches, and backyard barbecues, where a unique brand of conservatism still runs strong. Outsiders may have heard haranguing in Cosby’s language and tone. But much of black America heard instead the possibility of changing their communities without having to wait on the consciences and attention spans of policy makers who might not have their interests at heart. Shortly after Cosby took his Pound Cake message on the road, I wrote an article denouncing him as an elitist. When my father, a former Black Panther, read it, he upbraided me for attacking what he saw as a message of black empowerment. Cosby’s argument has resonated with the black mainstream for just that reason.
     

    The split between Cosby and critics such as Dyson mirrors not only America’s broader conservative/liberal split but black America’s own historic intellectual divide. Cosby’s most obvious antecedent is Booker T. Washington. At the turn of the 20th century, Washington married a defense of the white South with a call for black self-reliance and became the most prominent black leader of his day. He argued that southern whites should be given time to adjust to emancipation; in the meantime, blacks should advance themselves not by voting and running for office but by working, and ultimately owning, the land.



    W. E. B. Du Bois, the integrationist model for the Dysons of our day, saw Washington as an apologist for white racism and thought that his willingness to sacrifice the black vote was heretical. History ultimately rendered half of Washington’s argument moot. His famous Atlanta Compromise—in which he endorsed segregation as a temporary means of making peace with southerners—was answered by lynchings, land theft, and general racial terrorism. But Washington’s appeal to black self-sufficiency endured.

     


    “For all the woes of segregation, there were some good things to come out of it,” Cosby and Poussaint write. “One was that it forced us to take care of ourselves. When restaurants, laundries, hotels, theaters, groceries, and clothing stores were segregated, black people opened and ran their own. Black life insurance companies and banks thrived, as well as black funeral homes … Such successes provided jobs and strength to black economic well-being. They also gave black people that gratifying sense of an interdependent community.” Although the authors take pains to put some distance between themselves and the Nation of Islam, they approvingly quote one of its ministers who spoke at a call-out in Compton, California: “I went to Koreatown today and I met with the Korean merchants,” the minister told the crowd. “I love them. You know why? They got a place called what? Koreatown. When I left them, I went to Chinatown. They got a place called what? Chinatown. Where is your town?”
     

    The notion of the Great Fall, and the attendant theory that segregation gave rise to some “good things,” are the stock-in-trade of what Christopher Alan Bracey, a law professor at Washington University, calls (in his book, Saviors or Sellouts) the “organic” black conservative tradition: conservatives who favor hard work and moral reform over protests and government intervention, but whose black-nationalist leanings make them anathema to the Heritage Foundation and Rush Limbaugh. When political strategists argue that the Republican Party is missing a huge chance to court the black community, they are thinking of this mostly male bloc—the old guy in the barbershop, the grizzled Pop Warner coach, the retired Vietnam vet, the drunk uncle at the family reunion. He votes Democratic, not out of any love for abortion rights or progressive taxation, but because he feels—in fact, he knows—that the modern-day GOP draws on the support of people who hate him. This is the audience that flocks to Cosby: culturally conservative black Americans who are convinced that integration, and to some extent the entire liberal dream, robbed them of their natural defenses.

    “There are things that we did not see coming,” Cosby told me over lunch in Manhattan last year. “Like, you could see the Klan, but because these things were not on a horse, because there was no white sheet, and the people doing the deed were not white, we saw things in the light of family and forgiveness … We didn’t pay attention to the dropout rate. We didn’t pay attention to the fathers, to the self-esteem of our boys.”
     

    Indeed, a century ago, the black brain trust was pushing the same rhetoric that Cosby is pushing today. It was concerned that slavery had essentially destroyed the black family and was obsessed with seemingly the same issues—crime, wanton sexuality, and general moral turpitude—that Cosby claims are recent developments. “The early effort of middle-class blacks to respond to segregation was, aside from a political agenda, focused on a social-reform agenda,” says Khalil G. Muhammad, a professor of American history at Indiana University. “The National Association of Colored Women, Du Bois in The Philadelphia Negro, all shared a sense of anxiety that African Americans were not presenting their best selves to the world. There was the sense that they were committing crimes and needed to keep their sexuality in check.” Adds William Jelani Cobb, a professor of American history at Spelman College: “The same kind of people who were advocating for social reform were denigrating people because they didn’t play piano. They often saw themselves as reluctant caretakers of the less enlightened.”
     

    If Cosby’s call-outs simply ended at that—a personal and communal creed—there’d be little to oppose. But Cosby often pits the rhetoric of personal responsibility against the legitimate claims of American citizens for their rights. He chides activists for pushing to reform the criminal-justice system, despite solid evidence that the criminal-justice system needs reform. His historical amnesia—his assertion that many of the problems that pervade black America are of a recent vintage—is simply wrong, as is his contention that today’s young African Americans are somehow weaker, that they’ve dropped the ball. And for all its positive energy, his language of uplift has its limitations. After the Million Man March, black men embraced a sense of hope and promise. We were supposed to return to our communities and families inspired by a new feeling of responsibility. Yet here we are again, almost 15 years later, with seemingly little tangible change. I’d take my son to see Bill Cosby, to hear his message, to revel in its promise and optimism. But afterward, he and I would have a very long talk.
     

    Part of what drives Cosby’s activism, and reinforces his message, is the rage that lives in all African Americans, a collective feeling of disgrace that borders on self-hatred. As the comedian Chris Rock put it in one of his infamous routines, “Everything white people don’t like about black people, black people really don’t like about black people … It’s like a civil war going on with black people, and it’s two sides—there’s black people and there’s niggas, and niggas have got to go … Boy, I wish they’d let me join the Ku Klux Klan. Shit, I’d do a drive-by from here to Brooklyn.” (Rock stopped performing the routine when he noticed that his white fans were laughing a little too hard.) Liberalism, with its pat logic and focus on structural inequities, offers no balm for this sort of raw pain. Like the people he preaches to, Cosby has grown tired of hanging his head.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/05/-this-is-how-we-lost-to-the-white-man/306774/

    African Americans really have a difficult hand to play. They can go with the flow and blame all their problems on white racism. That’s easy, and absolves them of all responsibility, but also means they will always depend on the kindness of strangers. On the other hand, they can listen to Booker T. Washington, Bill Cosby, and Louis Farrakhan who advise them to study hard, stay off drugs, don’t have out-of-wedlock kids, police themselves, and invest in their own community. But in the cold light of day, they know those things aren’t really going to work out. Most are not going to do well in school, aren’t going to adequately defer gratification, and aren’t going to be successful in business. So that route just leads to a realization of their own inability to keep up or compete. Which leads them back to blaming whitey as the more palatable explanation.

  29. @ABN
    Yeah, Obama is a somewhat different case because he is literally and figuratively both an ethnocentric black crypto-conservative and an SWPL. I think Steve once referred to him as the Henry Tudor of modern liberalism.

    As for TNC, you make a good point. Still, who butters TNC's bread? Who reads him in the Atlantic? Who goes in for his cat-lady-book-club prose? Mostly white liberals, I would think.

    Mostly white liberals, I would think.

    Practically all of the American Studies/US History/American Lit graduate students that I know read him.And they seem to regard him as some kind of fount of wisdom regarding the evil essence that lies at the heart of America

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna

    some kind of fount of wisdom regarding the evil essence that lies at the heart of America
     
    Which is why he's the perfect foot-soldier for TPTB.

    TNC is indeed influential and widely-quoted.

    And a clever writer imho, contra the cat-lady remark above.

  30. It strikes me that most blacks have more in common with conservatives than liberals. Most African Americans are not crazy about mass immigration, gay marriage, or vegetarianism. It’s really only a vocal minority that are in the social justice crowd. The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.
     
    The potential is there.Barbara Jordan was quite keen on reducing immigration:

    Barbara Charline Jordan (February 21, 1936 – January 17, 1996) was an American politician and a leader of the Civil Rights movement. A Democrat, she was the first African American elected to the Texas Senate after Reconstruction, the first southern black female elected to the United States House of Representatives, and the first African-American woman to deliver the keynote address at a Democratic National Convention. [.....]


    In 1994 and until her death in 1996, Jordan chaired the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, which advocated increased restriction of immigration, called for all U.S. residents to carry a national identity card and increased penalties on employers that violated U.S. immigration regulations.[9][10] Then-President Clinton endorsed the Jordan Commission's proposals.[11] While she was Chair of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform she argued that "it is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan


    The Ghost of Barbara Jordan
    Texas's first black congresswoman provided a voice missing from today's immigration debate.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-ghost-of-barbara-jordan/

    In 1995, Former Texas Congresswoman Barbara Jordan chaired the Congressionally mandated (Immigration Act of 1990) U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform. The Commission made the most thorough examination of the impact of U.S. immigration policies of any federal commission to date. The final recommendations were presented to Congress and President Clinton in 1997 (more than six years after the commission was formed).

    Their recommendations to create a "credible, coherent immigrant and immigration policy" and a "credible, efficient naturalization process" included the following:

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.
    a focus on the admission of highly-skilled individuals to support the national interest by bringing to the U.S. individuals whose skills would benefit our society. Recommended the elimination of the admission of unskilled workers and elimination of the diversity visa lottery;
    immigration admissions level of 550,000 per year, to be divided as follows:
    Nuclear family immigration 400,000;
    Skill-based immigration 100,000;
    Refugee resettlement 50,000.
    Stressed deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave.

     

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/illegal-immigration/us-commission-immigration-reform-barbara-jordan-commission.html
    , @Mark G.
    Blacks heavily depend on the government to redistribute economic resources from whites over to them via welfare and affirmative action. Without affirmative action almost the entire black middle class wouldn't exist and without welfare lots of underclass blacks would starve to death or have to work low paying unpleasant menial jobs. They'll never support the Republican party in large numbers because of that and taking socially conservative positions on things like gay marriage won't change that.
  31. @Anonymous
    You don't need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.

    I like Syon’s copypasta, he’s judicious in his selections.

    TNC’s writing was better than. Not great, but standard quality political mag expository writing.

  32. @Gozo
    The Internet is full of people who watch B movies and then write (or film!) long descriptions of these movies, pointing out how crummy they are. I think something like that is going on here with Steve and the gang.

    The Internet is full of people who watch B movies and then write (or film!) long descriptions of these movies, pointing out how crummy they are. I think something like that is going on here with Steve and the gang.

    Mystery Sailer Theater 3000.

  33. @syonredux

    Mostly white liberals, I would think.
     
    Practically all of the American Studies/US History/American Lit graduate students that I know read him.And they seem to regard him as some kind of fount of wisdom regarding the evil essence that lies at the heart of America

    some kind of fount of wisdom regarding the evil essence that lies at the heart of America

    Which is why he’s the perfect foot-soldier for TPTB.

    TNC is indeed influential and widely-quoted.

    And a clever writer imho, contra the cat-lady remark above.

  34. @duderino
    It strikes me that most blacks have more in common with conservatives than liberals. Most African Americans are not crazy about mass immigration, gay marriage, or vegetarianism. It's really only a vocal minority that are in the social justice crowd. The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.

    The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.

    The potential is there.Barbara Jordan was quite keen on reducing immigration:

    Barbara Charline Jordan (February 21, 1936 – January 17, 1996) was an American politician and a leader of the Civil Rights movement. A Democrat, she was the first African American elected to the Texas Senate after Reconstruction, the first southern black female elected to the United States House of Representatives, and the first African-American woman to deliver the keynote address at a Democratic National Convention. […..]

    In 1994 and until her death in 1996, Jordan chaired the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, which advocated increased restriction of immigration, called for all U.S. residents to carry a national identity card and increased penalties on employers that violated U.S. immigration regulations.[9][10] Then-President Clinton endorsed the Jordan Commission’s proposals.[11] While she was Chair of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform she argued that “it is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan

    The Ghost of Barbara Jordan
    Texas’s first black congresswoman provided a voice missing from today’s immigration debate.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-ghost-of-barbara-jordan/

    In 1995, Former Texas Congresswoman Barbara Jordan chaired the Congressionally mandated (Immigration Act of 1990) U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform. The Commission made the most thorough examination of the impact of U.S. immigration policies of any federal commission to date. The final recommendations were presented to Congress and President Clinton in 1997 (more than six years after the commission was formed).

    Their recommendations to create a “credible, coherent immigrant and immigration policy” and a “credible, efficient naturalization process” included the following:

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.
    a focus on the admission of highly-skilled individuals to support the national interest by bringing to the U.S. individuals whose skills would benefit our society. Recommended the elimination of the admission of unskilled workers and elimination of the diversity visa lottery;
    immigration admissions level of 550,000 per year, to be divided as follows:
    Nuclear family immigration 400,000;
    Skill-based immigration 100,000;
    Refugee resettlement 50,000.
    Stressed deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/illegal-immigration/us-commission-immigration-reform-barbara-jordan-commission.html

    • Replies: @duderino
    Yep. There really just needs to be a black person on the ticket, and a concerted effort to reach out on the immigration issue. 3 dem wins in 08, Florida, Ohio, and Michigan, all depend on strong black turnout. Even Pennsylvania might be in play

    Mexican voters aren't nearly the force blacks are.
    , @Luke Lea
    Barbara Jordan; https://goo.gl/rzQL2P
    , @Merema

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.
     
    I have been pulling my hair at this policy of allowing endless chain migration. Every person who gets a pathway to citizenship results in a pathway to citizenship to that person's entire village!

    Each unmarried or married son or daughter will bring his/her partner, each partner will bring his/her brother and sister, who will bring their partner, who will bring their sibling and so and so on.

    Each unmarried adult son and daughter will bring that qualified for a green card will eventually marry and bring his/her boyfriend/girlfriend, who will bring his/her children and parents. The parents bring the other children and so and so.
  35. Does anybody know how TNC got his break? Who picked him out of obscurity and started putting his thoughts and his words out there in the mainstream? How did he go from being a nobody to being a featured somebody? Wikipedia doesn’t tell me, and I’m reluctant to disappear down the rabbit hole of TNC info online, so I’m hoping someone knows and can tell me.

    And don’t think — not even FOR A SECOND — that my question is motivated by anything like bitterness over the fact that, even though I’m a clearer writer than TNC and a smarter and more original culture-observer, during my decades in the media biz no one ever plucked me out of obscurity, threw money at me, and put me out there as a featured thinker. Nope, doesn’t bother me A BIT that TNC is making a living for himself (and no doubt enjoying the spotlight) complaining about how rough it is for him to be black when he’s had a very nice gig fall in his lap at a still-young age while dozens if not hundreds of equally good (actually better, IMHO) writers have never had anything like his luck …

    Why on earth does TNC think he has had it so hard when, as a writer, he has basically won the lottery? Forget me — how about Steve Sailer? As a writer, who’s had it (and continues to have it) rougher: TNC, or Steve?

    ABN’s comment (the one that Steve copies in the body of his posting) is really good.

    • Replies: @SFG
    PR (ex-Blowhard): I get it. And it echoes episodes of my own life, when I've lost to those who knew how to play the game, as they say. I am older and more cynical now, but it is too late.

    For what it's worth, I will cite an old cynic far wiser than me: the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

    To 'time' here I would add not only the normal decay of age, but 'the times': the Zeitgeist. TNC is in the spirit of the age, and has the right views and ancestry to be loved by the Powers That Be, corrupt though they are. As Steve himself has said, if Obama had been Indonesian rather than black, who would have ever heard of him again? He was able to play on the history of this country and its ambivalent attitude toward blacks to his favor; he was also able to come in at a time when the opposition party had been discredited by war and recession.

    Success comes to those who can please the powerful. That is always as it has been. Nobody honors lonely truth-tellers like Steve, but for their small circle. And remember that even if you do play all your cards right and stroke all the right egos, you may still fail before some snake whose serpent's tongue is more skillfully slimy than yours. That is the 'chance' in 'time and chance happeneth to them all'.

    So, you are bitter? I do not blame you, sir. If you are religious, you may comfort yourself that God honors you (for did not Jesus say, 'My kingdom is not of this world'?). If not, well, you have my respect, and that of others on this board.
    , @Ed
    David Carr, the recently deceased NYT writer, hired Coates at the DC City paper. He worked there with Jake Tapper & some other media notables today. Then Andrew Sullivan hired him at the National Republic.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/02/king-david/385596/
    , @rod1963
    He's black, he says the right things the ruling elite like to hear and read, he got noticed by the right people at the right time and viola! He's a porch monkey or kept man for the white establishment.

    You ever see the organ grinder and the monkey? The establishment is the organ grinder and the big named writers are the monkeys who dance(write) to the tune of the grinder. That's all he is. It's really nothing to aspire to. He's just too stupid to notice what he is.

    And if he ever gets a conscience and says things that the establishment doesn't like such as securing the borders and supporting tariffs to bring back American jobs, he's gone.

    In this era, it's not quality or competence that counts, it's holding the right ideology - that opens the doors. Holding the wrong ideology will get them closed on you real fast, even if you are popular. Just ask Lou Dobbs or Perot.
    , @The Practical Conservative
    His dad was a Black Panther.
    , @iffen
    All of you are forgetting about the power of mythology.

    The Great Black Hope.
  36. Perhaps the Talented Tenth is unique among elites in that their legacy has become dysfunction, even if we call it suffering, and they’ve become very stubborn about protecting that legacy because it’s invaluable–the perception that black Americans have suffered uniquely among peoples has them dominating politics and culture; not despite a history of failure but because of it. It’s the greatest con ever. But I think it’s one of the reasons the SJWs won’t yield their image of blacks but from cold, dead hands. Conventional thinking on race doesn’t exaggerate the problem, it inverts it. Reverse the arrow of causation, reverse the arrow of moral responsibility. It isn’t that white America cannot honor its debt to blacks because the sins are too profound, it’s that black America can’t honor its end of the bargain–to become peaceful and productive–due to a lack of human capital and will.

    It’s also a proven political model, adopted to all manner of newcomers. Some angry, Suge Knight type guy should be fuming through his cigar right now over how the brothers aren’t getting paid for this.

    • Replies: @Luke Lea
    "Perhaps the Talented Tenth is unique among elites in that their legacy has become dysfunction, . . ."


    The problem is that the Talented Tenth are barely above average by European standards (as are Europeans by Ashkenazi standards). Each of these people need a world of their own, a place where they can exercise their talents to the maximum, lead fulfilling lives. Think of the white half-backs who don't get to run.

    I realize I am getting into dangerous territory here, but the logic leads me on.

  37. @Anonymous
    You don't need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.

    Anonymous says:
    July 30, 2015 at 11:45 pm GMT
    @syon
    “You don’t need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.”

    How do you know, Mr. Anonymous? It’s easy to scroll through if you don’t want to read it.

  38. OT, perhaps, but I was impressed by this YouTube video of some Massai tribesmen staring down a pack of lions to get their meat. Wouldn’t it be great if everyone could live in their element, in a world of their own? https://goo.gl/hgQWM8

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Is this for real? They're carrying bows and arrows with which they could easily kill as many wildebeests as they like, so apparently they are stealing the lions' meat just for fun.
    , @BB753
    It´s scavenging. Man is the apex predator, after all. All animals are afraid of humans, with or without guns. It´s a form of scavenging that admitedly still takes some bravery. It may come down to on how hungry the lions are when you steal their prey.
  39. @Dennis Dale
    Perhaps the Talented Tenth is unique among elites in that their legacy has become dysfunction, even if we call it suffering, and they've become very stubborn about protecting that legacy because it's invaluable--the perception that black Americans have suffered uniquely among peoples has them dominating politics and culture; not despite a history of failure but because of it. It's the greatest con ever. But I think it's one of the reasons the SJWs won't yield their image of blacks but from cold, dead hands. Conventional thinking on race doesn't exaggerate the problem, it inverts it. Reverse the arrow of causation, reverse the arrow of moral responsibility. It isn't that white America cannot honor its debt to blacks because the sins are too profound, it's that black America can't honor its end of the bargain--to become peaceful and productive--due to a lack of human capital and will.

    It's also a proven political model, adopted to all manner of newcomers. Some angry, Suge Knight type guy should be fuming through his cigar right now over how the brothers aren't getting paid for this.

    “Perhaps the Talented Tenth is unique among elites in that their legacy has become dysfunction, . . .”

    The problem is that the Talented Tenth are barely above average by European standards (as are Europeans by Ashkenazi standards). Each of these people need a world of their own, a place where they can exercise their talents to the maximum, lead fulfilling lives. Think of the white half-backs who don’t get to run.

    I realize I am getting into dangerous territory here, but the logic leads me on.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    The problem is that the Talented Tenth are barely above average by European standards (as are Europeans by Ashkenazi standards).

    The Hasbara brigade strikes again...
  40. @syonredux

    The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.
     
    The potential is there.Barbara Jordan was quite keen on reducing immigration:

    Barbara Charline Jordan (February 21, 1936 – January 17, 1996) was an American politician and a leader of the Civil Rights movement. A Democrat, she was the first African American elected to the Texas Senate after Reconstruction, the first southern black female elected to the United States House of Representatives, and the first African-American woman to deliver the keynote address at a Democratic National Convention. [.....]


    In 1994 and until her death in 1996, Jordan chaired the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, which advocated increased restriction of immigration, called for all U.S. residents to carry a national identity card and increased penalties on employers that violated U.S. immigration regulations.[9][10] Then-President Clinton endorsed the Jordan Commission's proposals.[11] While she was Chair of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform she argued that "it is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan


    The Ghost of Barbara Jordan
    Texas's first black congresswoman provided a voice missing from today's immigration debate.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-ghost-of-barbara-jordan/

    In 1995, Former Texas Congresswoman Barbara Jordan chaired the Congressionally mandated (Immigration Act of 1990) U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform. The Commission made the most thorough examination of the impact of U.S. immigration policies of any federal commission to date. The final recommendations were presented to Congress and President Clinton in 1997 (more than six years after the commission was formed).

    Their recommendations to create a "credible, coherent immigrant and immigration policy" and a "credible, efficient naturalization process" included the following:

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.
    a focus on the admission of highly-skilled individuals to support the national interest by bringing to the U.S. individuals whose skills would benefit our society. Recommended the elimination of the admission of unskilled workers and elimination of the diversity visa lottery;
    immigration admissions level of 550,000 per year, to be divided as follows:
    Nuclear family immigration 400,000;
    Skill-based immigration 100,000;
    Refugee resettlement 50,000.
    Stressed deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave.

     

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/illegal-immigration/us-commission-immigration-reform-barbara-jordan-commission.html

    Yep. There really just needs to be a black person on the ticket, and a concerted effort to reach out on the immigration issue. 3 dem wins in 08, Florida, Ohio, and Michigan, all depend on strong black turnout. Even Pennsylvania might be in play

    Mexican voters aren’t nearly the force blacks are.

    • Replies: @ABN

    Yep. There really just needs to be a black person on the ticket, and a concerted effort to reach out on the immigration issue. 3 dem wins in 08, Florida, Ohio, and Michigan, all depend on strong black turnout. Even Pennsylvania might be in play

    Mexican voters aren’t nearly the force blacks are.
     

    Possibly. What should be avoided at all costs is the usual cuckservative* pandering to minorities. That kind of self-abasement alienates the base and impresses nobody. It's just pathetic. It's also premised upon the bizarre notion that relatively poor black and brown people have some latent, untapped desire to lower the top marginal tax rate or get into a war with Iran or whatever.

    Having said that, I think the irony of the Sailer Strategy is that appealing to the white working class on the National Question would also have the effect of picking up a few black (and Hispanic) votes on the margin. If some confident and unapologetic person like Trump were to announce that kicking out illegals and stopping mass legal immigration is a litmus test of national loyalty, I think we'd be pleasantly surprised by the number of blacks responding to that nativist appeal and the number of viva-la-raza triumphalists who would find it prudent to shut the hell up. (And, of course, the number of whites voting to save their country.)

    The media always talks about immigration as an issue that unites the Left's rainbow coalition and drives a wedge into the Right. (The media seems to think that there is something conservative about the GOP's donor class.) So we have nothing to lose by putting blacks and Hispanics on the spot--we just might drive a wedge into the Left.

    * Where has that word been all my life?

  41. Ed says:
    @Hans Olo
    More sensible comments from Bernie Sanders on immigration. He's as leftwing as heck, but he's smart and he's not a slave to corporate interests, which means he can think more clearly on this issue.

    He still supports amnesty, but maybe he realizes he can only push back so far considering the present state of liberal politics.


    '“What they are talking about is completely opening up the border. That was the question, should we have a completely open border, so that anybody can come into the United States of America. If that were to happen, which I strongly disagree with, there is no question in my mind that that was substantially lower wages in this country.

    "When you have 36 percent of Hispanic kids in this country who can’t find jobs, and you bring a lot of unskilled workers into this country, what do you think happens to that 36 percent of kids who are today unemployed? Fifty-one percent of African-American kids? I don’t think there’s any presidential candidate, none, who thinks we should open up the borders," said Sanders.'

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/

    Seems like this is an area where the far left & far right can come together and compromise. Reduce legal immigration by eliminating or severely reducing family & chain migration, curtailing H1bs & guest worker programs, allowing for a path to legalization for existing illegals and making any future illegal migration a criminal offense.

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    no, we've seen amnesty for enforcement 7 times now, we probably won't be fooled an eighth time in a row.
  42. SFG says:
    @Paleo Retiree
    Does anybody know how TNC got his break? Who picked him out of obscurity and started putting his thoughts and his words out there in the mainstream? How did he go from being a nobody to being a featured somebody? Wikipedia doesn't tell me, and I'm reluctant to disappear down the rabbit hole of TNC info online, so I'm hoping someone knows and can tell me.

    And don't think -- not even FOR A SECOND -- that my question is motivated by anything like bitterness over the fact that, even though I'm a clearer writer than TNC and a smarter and more original culture-observer, during my decades in the media biz no one ever plucked me out of obscurity, threw money at me, and put me out there as a featured thinker. Nope, doesn't bother me A BIT that TNC is making a living for himself (and no doubt enjoying the spotlight) complaining about how rough it is for him to be black when he's had a very nice gig fall in his lap at a still-young age while dozens if not hundreds of equally good (actually better, IMHO) writers have never had anything like his luck ...

    Why on earth does TNC think he has had it so hard when, as a writer, he has basically won the lottery? Forget me -- how about Steve Sailer? As a writer, who's had it (and continues to have it) rougher: TNC, or Steve?

    ABN's comment (the one that Steve copies in the body of his posting) is really good.

    PR (ex-Blowhard): I get it. And it echoes episodes of my own life, when I’ve lost to those who knew how to play the game, as they say. I am older and more cynical now, but it is too late.

    For what it’s worth, I will cite an old cynic far wiser than me: the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

    To ‘time’ here I would add not only the normal decay of age, but ‘the times’: the Zeitgeist. TNC is in the spirit of the age, and has the right views and ancestry to be loved by the Powers That Be, corrupt though they are. As Steve himself has said, if Obama had been Indonesian rather than black, who would have ever heard of him again? He was able to play on the history of this country and its ambivalent attitude toward blacks to his favor; he was also able to come in at a time when the opposition party had been discredited by war and recession.

    Success comes to those who can please the powerful. That is always as it has been. Nobody honors lonely truth-tellers like Steve, but for their small circle. And remember that even if you do play all your cards right and stroke all the right egos, you may still fail before some snake whose serpent’s tongue is more skillfully slimy than yours. That is the ‘chance’ in ‘time and chance happeneth to them all’.

    So, you are bitter? I do not blame you, sir. If you are religious, you may comfort yourself that God honors you (for did not Jesus say, ‘My kingdom is not of this world’?). If not, well, you have my respect, and that of others on this board.

    • Agree: slumber_j
    • Replies: @Paleo Retiree
    Thanks for the nice and kind words. My own guess would be that TNC has been playing the game rather less consciously than some might imagine -- that he's the beneficiary of others who are playing the game more shrewdly, or at least deliberately, than he is. (FWIW, and not that it matters: I'm less unworldly than I sometimes make myself out to be. Playing Columbo is one of my favorite pasttimes. And I'm long past feeling bitter. Blogging was very fulfilling.)
    , @IBC
    I like your wording. Ecclesiastes is full of wisdom.
  43. @syonredux

    The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.
     
    The potential is there.Barbara Jordan was quite keen on reducing immigration:

    Barbara Charline Jordan (February 21, 1936 – January 17, 1996) was an American politician and a leader of the Civil Rights movement. A Democrat, she was the first African American elected to the Texas Senate after Reconstruction, the first southern black female elected to the United States House of Representatives, and the first African-American woman to deliver the keynote address at a Democratic National Convention. [.....]


    In 1994 and until her death in 1996, Jordan chaired the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, which advocated increased restriction of immigration, called for all U.S. residents to carry a national identity card and increased penalties on employers that violated U.S. immigration regulations.[9][10] Then-President Clinton endorsed the Jordan Commission's proposals.[11] While she was Chair of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform she argued that "it is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan


    The Ghost of Barbara Jordan
    Texas's first black congresswoman provided a voice missing from today's immigration debate.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-ghost-of-barbara-jordan/

    In 1995, Former Texas Congresswoman Barbara Jordan chaired the Congressionally mandated (Immigration Act of 1990) U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform. The Commission made the most thorough examination of the impact of U.S. immigration policies of any federal commission to date. The final recommendations were presented to Congress and President Clinton in 1997 (more than six years after the commission was formed).

    Their recommendations to create a "credible, coherent immigrant and immigration policy" and a "credible, efficient naturalization process" included the following:

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.
    a focus on the admission of highly-skilled individuals to support the national interest by bringing to the U.S. individuals whose skills would benefit our society. Recommended the elimination of the admission of unskilled workers and elimination of the diversity visa lottery;
    immigration admissions level of 550,000 per year, to be divided as follows:
    Nuclear family immigration 400,000;
    Skill-based immigration 100,000;
    Refugee resettlement 50,000.
    Stressed deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave.

     

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/illegal-immigration/us-commission-immigration-reform-barbara-jordan-commission.html

    Barbara Jordan; https://goo.gl/rzQL2P

  44. @Luke Lea
    OT, perhaps, but I was impressed by this YouTube video of some Massai tribesmen staring down a pack of lions to get their meat. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could live in their element, in a world of their own? https://goo.gl/hgQWM8

    Is this for real? They’re carrying bows and arrows with which they could easily kill as many wildebeests as they like, so apparently they are stealing the lions’ meat just for fun.

  45. Basically that’s it. Blacks know instinctively, and correctly, they are not going to ever be “white” in their thinking or behavior, even as they know instinctively, and correctly, that “white” behavior and thinking is, or would be, better for themselves, their families, and their community.

    In that they are more honest than most white people, who live in a sort of fantasy that they can be successful entrepreneurs, or come out “ahead” in the game in some other way, usually until they are in their forties or fifties when reality finally sets in. I used to think all the time I would be this bigtime this or that, even well into my thirties, and supported libertarian and business-conservative ideas to a fault. That’s why I voted Republican all those years. That’s why I turned down union or government jobs that would have given me a defined benefit pension and 9 to 5, forty hour stability. In 1955 or 1965 my thinking would have probably given me a lot more interesting life and a decent retirement too, but having been born in the sixties, not so much.

    So blacks, at least, are acting in a sort of rational self interest, within the limits of their ability to think rationally. Whites choose not to do so and for that reason we are in trouble. if whites acted in terms of rational group self interest most of our issues would be fixed in five years. We’d secure the border, throw illegals out, reduce legal immigration to very little or none, tariff Chinese imports, and to put it bluntly we’d make black dysfunctionality so unpleasant for blacks they’d self-segregate or emigrate. We’d reduce their political power by requiring a voting test and we’d shut down any black church whose minister even hinted how his parishoners were supposed to vote as we do with the IRS to white ministers.

    But we won’t, because we choose not to be rational and self-interested. In that we really are the lessers of the Blacks, and people like TNC pick up on that.

    • Replies: @Truth
    " That’s why I turned down union or government jobs that would have given me a defined benefit pension and 9 to 5, forty hour stability. In 1955 or 1965 my thinking would have probably given me a lot more interesting life and a decent retirement too, but having been born in the sixties, not so much."

    It is increasingly difficult, but lots of people are still successful in business. We have more millionaires now than ever before.

    "So blacks, at least, are acting in a sort of rational self interest, within the limits of their ability to think rationally. Whites choose not to do so and for that reason we are in trouble. if whites acted in terms of rational group self interest most of our issues would be fixed in five years. We’d secure the border, throw illegals out, reduce legal immigration to very little or none, tariff Chinese imports, and to put it bluntly we’d make black dysfunctionality so unpleasant for blacks they’d self-segregate or emigrate."

    There is no more a "rational white universal self-interest" than there is a black one. Whom, would these changes help?

    Close the border, throw illegals out, reduce immigration? Who benefits? Rich white people (the only ones who truly count) become less rich with these policies, as they have always thrived upon cheap/free labor, and simple-minded consumer class. Tariff Chinese imports? Sales would go down, because we wouldn't be able to sell as many goods, black emigrating? Who do you think builds, staffs, and gets rich off of the prison system, blacks?

    I would say that your conversion from 80's era libertarian to socialist is complete, even if you did not realize it.
    , @Ed
    That's how the U.S. was before the 1960s but post war affluence led to arrogance. Something had to be done about black civil rights. Instead of the South fighting so hard against integration they should have adopted the strategy the French used in their African colonies, earned citizenship.

    The Civil Rights Movement was lead by a frustrated relatively solid middle class blacks who felt their aspirations were stunted.They could have been easily bought off with select access to certain white schools, neighborhoods or jobs. Instead far more reaching laws were passed that upended the USA.
  46. @Paleo Retiree
    Does anybody know how TNC got his break? Who picked him out of obscurity and started putting his thoughts and his words out there in the mainstream? How did he go from being a nobody to being a featured somebody? Wikipedia doesn't tell me, and I'm reluctant to disappear down the rabbit hole of TNC info online, so I'm hoping someone knows and can tell me.

    And don't think -- not even FOR A SECOND -- that my question is motivated by anything like bitterness over the fact that, even though I'm a clearer writer than TNC and a smarter and more original culture-observer, during my decades in the media biz no one ever plucked me out of obscurity, threw money at me, and put me out there as a featured thinker. Nope, doesn't bother me A BIT that TNC is making a living for himself (and no doubt enjoying the spotlight) complaining about how rough it is for him to be black when he's had a very nice gig fall in his lap at a still-young age while dozens if not hundreds of equally good (actually better, IMHO) writers have never had anything like his luck ...

    Why on earth does TNC think he has had it so hard when, as a writer, he has basically won the lottery? Forget me -- how about Steve Sailer? As a writer, who's had it (and continues to have it) rougher: TNC, or Steve?

    ABN's comment (the one that Steve copies in the body of his posting) is really good.

    David Carr, the recently deceased NYT writer, hired Coates at the DC City paper. He worked there with Jake Tapper & some other media notables today. Then Andrew Sullivan hired him at the National Republic.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/02/king-david/385596/

    • Replies: @Paleo Retiree
    Thanks. I'm always curious about how people get their breaks.
    , @Anonymous
    Coates never worked at the New Republic, and I don't think he's ever met Andrew Sullivan. If I remember correctly, Coates mentioned Sullivan as one of the people who expressed disappointment in their "old friend" Coates, even though they never met him.
  47. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    “Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases.”

    I think it has been well-established by now that the epic poems “The Iliad” and “The Odyssey,” the first pieces of literature of Western Civilization (and some maintain still the best), were originally delivered orally (sung) by the poet Homer and later reduced to writing. It has been speculated that the repetition of phrases throughout both epic poems (which are quite long) serve as a mnemonic device making it easier for the singer (Homer or someone else) to remember the words of what are rather long poems. Scholars have found modern day bards in the Balkans who sing long poems, and the works they sing contain the same pattern of repetitious phrases to facilitate recall. There is a scene in the latter part of the Odyssey where Odysseus, having been found shipwrecked on the beach of an island near his home island of Ithaca, is being honored by the king at a feast where a bard entertains the audience after dinner by singing an epic poem about the Trojan War (where Odysseus had fought and lost many comrades during the long war) which brought Odysseus to tears, which he tried to hide from his host unsuccessfully. It should be remembered that the ancient Greeks and modern scholars both tend to place the creation of The Iliad and The Odyssey around 1000 BC, which happened to coincide with the Dark Ages of ancient Greece, their previous use of writing having been lost as a result of the Dorian invasions and only reintroduced around 800 BC by the Phoenicians. The tyrant of Athens preceding the introduction of democracy, Peisistratus, had the Iliad and Odyssey reduced to writing since there were various versions around and both epics formed an important part of Greek education, much like the Bible used to be as part of English and American educational tradition. Those written versions henceforth became the definitive versions of both epics in the ancient Greek world, as I recall.

    • Replies: @Area Man

    Scholars have found modern day bards in the Balkans who sing long poems, and the works they sing contain the same pattern of repetitious phrases to facilitate recall.
     
    This is correct, but epithets serve another function as well. While one would have to know Ancient Greek to fully appreciate it, The Iliad and The Odyssey were both composed to fit a certain meter. Using epithets preserves the meter.
  48. @Paleo Retiree
    Does anybody know how TNC got his break? Who picked him out of obscurity and started putting his thoughts and his words out there in the mainstream? How did he go from being a nobody to being a featured somebody? Wikipedia doesn't tell me, and I'm reluctant to disappear down the rabbit hole of TNC info online, so I'm hoping someone knows and can tell me.

    And don't think -- not even FOR A SECOND -- that my question is motivated by anything like bitterness over the fact that, even though I'm a clearer writer than TNC and a smarter and more original culture-observer, during my decades in the media biz no one ever plucked me out of obscurity, threw money at me, and put me out there as a featured thinker. Nope, doesn't bother me A BIT that TNC is making a living for himself (and no doubt enjoying the spotlight) complaining about how rough it is for him to be black when he's had a very nice gig fall in his lap at a still-young age while dozens if not hundreds of equally good (actually better, IMHO) writers have never had anything like his luck ...

    Why on earth does TNC think he has had it so hard when, as a writer, he has basically won the lottery? Forget me -- how about Steve Sailer? As a writer, who's had it (and continues to have it) rougher: TNC, or Steve?

    ABN's comment (the one that Steve copies in the body of his posting) is really good.

    He’s black, he says the right things the ruling elite like to hear and read, he got noticed by the right people at the right time and viola! He’s a porch monkey or kept man for the white establishment.

    You ever see the organ grinder and the monkey? The establishment is the organ grinder and the big named writers are the monkeys who dance(write) to the tune of the grinder. That’s all he is. It’s really nothing to aspire to. He’s just too stupid to notice what he is.

    And if he ever gets a conscience and says things that the establishment doesn’t like such as securing the borders and supporting tariffs to bring back American jobs, he’s gone.

    In this era, it’s not quality or competence that counts, it’s holding the right ideology – that opens the doors. Holding the wrong ideology will get them closed on you real fast, even if you are popular. Just ask Lou Dobbs or Perot.

  49. @SFG
    PR (ex-Blowhard): I get it. And it echoes episodes of my own life, when I've lost to those who knew how to play the game, as they say. I am older and more cynical now, but it is too late.

    For what it's worth, I will cite an old cynic far wiser than me: the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

    To 'time' here I would add not only the normal decay of age, but 'the times': the Zeitgeist. TNC is in the spirit of the age, and has the right views and ancestry to be loved by the Powers That Be, corrupt though they are. As Steve himself has said, if Obama had been Indonesian rather than black, who would have ever heard of him again? He was able to play on the history of this country and its ambivalent attitude toward blacks to his favor; he was also able to come in at a time when the opposition party had been discredited by war and recession.

    Success comes to those who can please the powerful. That is always as it has been. Nobody honors lonely truth-tellers like Steve, but for their small circle. And remember that even if you do play all your cards right and stroke all the right egos, you may still fail before some snake whose serpent's tongue is more skillfully slimy than yours. That is the 'chance' in 'time and chance happeneth to them all'.

    So, you are bitter? I do not blame you, sir. If you are religious, you may comfort yourself that God honors you (for did not Jesus say, 'My kingdom is not of this world'?). If not, well, you have my respect, and that of others on this board.

    Thanks for the nice and kind words. My own guess would be that TNC has been playing the game rather less consciously than some might imagine — that he’s the beneficiary of others who are playing the game more shrewdly, or at least deliberately, than he is. (FWIW, and not that it matters: I’m less unworldly than I sometimes make myself out to be. Playing Columbo is one of my favorite pasttimes. And I’m long past feeling bitter. Blogging was very fulfilling.)

    • Replies: @syonredux
    Well, there are some interesting hints as to why he was hired:

    “Ta-Nehisi is amazing in the way he thinks out loud and invites people in,” says James Bennet, the Atlantic’s editor in chief. “He’s carrying out his extraordinary intellectual development in public. He’s very direct about what he doesn’t know.”

    Once, Bennet recalls, Coates was engaged in a gun control debate on the Atlantic’s Web site with Jeffrey Goldberg, a well-known colleague at the magazine. Goldberg referred to the philosopher and theologian Saint Augustine. Coates confessed that he didn’t know who Saint Augustine was, then charged ahead with the debate.

    “I can’t think of another writer who wouldn’t have Googled it!” Bennet says.”
     
    I find it quite astounding that TNC can’t quite catch the aura of paternalistic condescension in such remarks. Bennet is basically saying that he hired an underqualified man to write for THE ATLANTIC. His reason: So that the good White folks who read the magazine can be edified by watching him learn and grow.

    As he speaks, Coates seems to be working out the logical string on the spot, circling back to the beginning and editing himself, refining the argument, then re-refining it. He is 6-foot-4 and has a round, soft-looking face that makes him appear younger than he is. When he’s groping for a word, and that is often, he tends to fill the gaps with “you knows” and bursts of laughter followed by bursts of ideas.
     
    He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.

    coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/with-atlantic-article-on-reparations-ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html
    , @SFG
    You might be right about that. He doesn't seem that Machiavellian--probably just in the right place at the right time.

    (FWIW: I wonder if people into the arts tend to say things that make a better story, as opposed to people interested in science, who are concerned with being precisely correct? It would make an awful lot of sense.)
  50. ABN says:
    @duderino
    Yep. There really just needs to be a black person on the ticket, and a concerted effort to reach out on the immigration issue. 3 dem wins in 08, Florida, Ohio, and Michigan, all depend on strong black turnout. Even Pennsylvania might be in play

    Mexican voters aren't nearly the force blacks are.

    Yep. There really just needs to be a black person on the ticket, and a concerted effort to reach out on the immigration issue. 3 dem wins in 08, Florida, Ohio, and Michigan, all depend on strong black turnout. Even Pennsylvania might be in play

    Mexican voters aren’t nearly the force blacks are.

    Possibly. What should be avoided at all costs is the usual cuckservative* pandering to minorities. That kind of self-abasement alienates the base and impresses nobody. It’s just pathetic. It’s also premised upon the bizarre notion that relatively poor black and brown people have some latent, untapped desire to lower the top marginal tax rate or get into a war with Iran or whatever.

    Having said that, I think the irony of the Sailer Strategy is that appealing to the white working class on the National Question would also have the effect of picking up a few black (and Hispanic) votes on the margin. If some confident and unapologetic person like Trump were to announce that kicking out illegals and stopping mass legal immigration is a litmus test of national loyalty, I think we’d be pleasantly surprised by the number of blacks responding to that nativist appeal and the number of viva-la-raza triumphalists who would find it prudent to shut the hell up. (And, of course, the number of whites voting to save their country.)

    The media always talks about immigration as an issue that unites the Left’s rainbow coalition and drives a wedge into the Right. (The media seems to think that there is something conservative about the GOP’s donor class.) So we have nothing to lose by putting blacks and Hispanics on the spot–we just might drive a wedge into the Left.

    * Where has that word been all my life?

    • Replies: @duderino
    Well, there's tone deaf pandering (MLK was a Republican you guys!) , and then there's pandering that really hits people emotionally. Immigration is one of those issues. To the point of a black VP, My instincts tell me that most black people don't naturally like Hillary. She seems like an upper class white schoolmarm telling them what good for them. Complete opposite personality as Bill. If you had a non-oreo black guy telling people Hillary was a tool of Wall Street, and really hammered immigration restriction to help the middle class, then there is real potential.

    We're stuck with the blacks, might as well work together. Continued mass immigration from Mexico may be optional.
  51. @SFG
    PR (ex-Blowhard): I get it. And it echoes episodes of my own life, when I've lost to those who knew how to play the game, as they say. I am older and more cynical now, but it is too late.

    For what it's worth, I will cite an old cynic far wiser than me: the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

    To 'time' here I would add not only the normal decay of age, but 'the times': the Zeitgeist. TNC is in the spirit of the age, and has the right views and ancestry to be loved by the Powers That Be, corrupt though they are. As Steve himself has said, if Obama had been Indonesian rather than black, who would have ever heard of him again? He was able to play on the history of this country and its ambivalent attitude toward blacks to his favor; he was also able to come in at a time when the opposition party had been discredited by war and recession.

    Success comes to those who can please the powerful. That is always as it has been. Nobody honors lonely truth-tellers like Steve, but for their small circle. And remember that even if you do play all your cards right and stroke all the right egos, you may still fail before some snake whose serpent's tongue is more skillfully slimy than yours. That is the 'chance' in 'time and chance happeneth to them all'.

    So, you are bitter? I do not blame you, sir. If you are religious, you may comfort yourself that God honors you (for did not Jesus say, 'My kingdom is not of this world'?). If not, well, you have my respect, and that of others on this board.

    I like your wording. Ecclesiastes is full of wisdom.

  52. @Ed
    David Carr, the recently deceased NYT writer, hired Coates at the DC City paper. He worked there with Jake Tapper & some other media notables today. Then Andrew Sullivan hired him at the National Republic.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/02/king-david/385596/

    Thanks. I’m always curious about how people get their breaks.

  53. @Hans Olo
    More sensible comments from Bernie Sanders on immigration. He's as leftwing as heck, but he's smart and he's not a slave to corporate interests, which means he can think more clearly on this issue.

    He still supports amnesty, but maybe he realizes he can only push back so far considering the present state of liberal politics.


    '“What they are talking about is completely opening up the border. That was the question, should we have a completely open border, so that anybody can come into the United States of America. If that were to happen, which I strongly disagree with, there is no question in my mind that that was substantially lower wages in this country.

    "When you have 36 percent of Hispanic kids in this country who can’t find jobs, and you bring a lot of unskilled workers into this country, what do you think happens to that 36 percent of kids who are today unemployed? Fifty-one percent of African-American kids? I don’t think there’s any presidential candidate, none, who thinks we should open up the borders," said Sanders.'

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/

    Apparently Bernie is too out to lunch to realize that an amnesty is exactly the same in effect as an explicit open borders policy. The chain migration from the 20 million newly legal immigrants, plus the reinforcement of the message that U.S. immigration laws will never be enforced will bring in the next 20M, and the next 20M after that. Look at the ’86 amnesty.
    Maybe Bernie knows that, and is willing to temporarily sacrifice the American worker in exchange for the annihilation of White Christian culture and the establishment of a single party State. California seems to be working out just fine for people of his political bent.

  54. @ABN

    Yep. There really just needs to be a black person on the ticket, and a concerted effort to reach out on the immigration issue. 3 dem wins in 08, Florida, Ohio, and Michigan, all depend on strong black turnout. Even Pennsylvania might be in play

    Mexican voters aren’t nearly the force blacks are.
     

    Possibly. What should be avoided at all costs is the usual cuckservative* pandering to minorities. That kind of self-abasement alienates the base and impresses nobody. It's just pathetic. It's also premised upon the bizarre notion that relatively poor black and brown people have some latent, untapped desire to lower the top marginal tax rate or get into a war with Iran or whatever.

    Having said that, I think the irony of the Sailer Strategy is that appealing to the white working class on the National Question would also have the effect of picking up a few black (and Hispanic) votes on the margin. If some confident and unapologetic person like Trump were to announce that kicking out illegals and stopping mass legal immigration is a litmus test of national loyalty, I think we'd be pleasantly surprised by the number of blacks responding to that nativist appeal and the number of viva-la-raza triumphalists who would find it prudent to shut the hell up. (And, of course, the number of whites voting to save their country.)

    The media always talks about immigration as an issue that unites the Left's rainbow coalition and drives a wedge into the Right. (The media seems to think that there is something conservative about the GOP's donor class.) So we have nothing to lose by putting blacks and Hispanics on the spot--we just might drive a wedge into the Left.

    * Where has that word been all my life?

    Well, there’s tone deaf pandering (MLK was a Republican you guys!) , and then there’s pandering that really hits people emotionally. Immigration is one of those issues. To the point of a black VP, My instincts tell me that most black people don’t naturally like Hillary. She seems like an upper class white schoolmarm telling them what good for them. Complete opposite personality as Bill. If you had a non-oreo black guy telling people Hillary was a tool of Wall Street, and really hammered immigration restriction to help the middle class, then there is real potential.

    We’re stuck with the blacks, might as well work together. Continued mass immigration from Mexico may be optional.

    • Replies: @Maj. Kong
    Hillary gets lower support from whites, than from minorities. A surprising amount of white leftists believed we had a New Deal-like permanent realignment in 2008, and are seething that Obama didn't deliver socialism by bashing the GOP head on. That is the essence of the Bernie Sanders coalition.

    By contrast, for most minorities, they appear more politically satisfied than ever. Clinton is the candidate of continuity.
  55. @duderino
    Well, there's tone deaf pandering (MLK was a Republican you guys!) , and then there's pandering that really hits people emotionally. Immigration is one of those issues. To the point of a black VP, My instincts tell me that most black people don't naturally like Hillary. She seems like an upper class white schoolmarm telling them what good for them. Complete opposite personality as Bill. If you had a non-oreo black guy telling people Hillary was a tool of Wall Street, and really hammered immigration restriction to help the middle class, then there is real potential.

    We're stuck with the blacks, might as well work together. Continued mass immigration from Mexico may be optional.

    Hillary gets lower support from whites, than from minorities. A surprising amount of white leftists believed we had a New Deal-like permanent realignment in 2008, and are seething that Obama didn’t deliver socialism by bashing the GOP head on. That is the essence of the Bernie Sanders coalition.

    By contrast, for most minorities, they appear more politically satisfied than ever. Clinton is the candidate of continuity.

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "Hillary gets lower support from whites, than from minorities."

    And Hillary Clinton will continue to get lower support from White voters as long as she continues to embrace Black Lives Matter over All Lives Matter. I doubt very much the White guy in Cincinnati, Ohio who got beat down by a Black mob gangsta style, is going to be voting for Hillary.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LOJJ9SWTNs

    Hillary Clinton being the anti-White male Feminiazi that she is most likely believes the White guy deserved the beat down that he got because just his very existence as a Cisgender White male is enough to oppress Black bodies.

    Hillary Clinton most likely feels guilt over the fact that a Cisgender White male (her father) produced her. She was created by a racist oppressor of Black bodies and that eats her up inside.

  56. “I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks.”

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is “you are all the same.” Now, white people want “you are all the same” when it benefits them, and “c’mon man you better than that!” When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, “yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade…NEVER AGAIN!”

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don’t get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn’t understand why his hitters couldn’t “just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner.” Now I get it.

    • Replies: @Kylie

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to[sic] Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”
     
    Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?
    , @anon
    "The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is “you are all the same.” Now, white people want “you are all the same” when it benefits them, and “c’mon man you better than that!” When it benefits them."

    Truth -- I think the point here is more subtle than 'middle class blacks should condemn underclass blacks'. It is that middle class blacks are in a pretty stressful position, since as you point out criticism of underclass blacks violates a legitimate desire for racial solidarity and participates in a project that can end up siding with whites who are at least influenced by racist beliefs. On the other hand standing with underclass blacks is tough because middle class blacks do at least privately understand that a lot of underclass behaviors are destructive and counterproductive and harmful to those who engage in them as well as the broader black community. So you get this oscillation back and forth. Nation of Islam worked well for some because it combined maximal condemnation of the white devil with maximum pressure for a conservative lifestyle. But that kind of separatism is no longer really feasible.

    This all showed up very intensely in the Ferguson thing. The real reason to condemn people like Michael Brown is because you want to deliver the lesson to your kids that you shouldn't knock over convenience stores and then attack police officers. It's rather dangerous for a community to make a hero out of someone like that. On the other hand, being honest about his self-destructive behavior would have robbed all the force out of a campaign against police violence that may yet result in some positive effect.

    , @Anonymous
    You don't sincerely worry about your life intersecting with someone like the Charleston shooter, do you? That would leave you as helpless and paranoid as some portly white housewife addicted to "CSI" and "Criminal Minds" who believes in the existence of one goth bondage-freak serial killer per elementary school faculty/daycare center.

    By the same token there are a lot of SWPL whites who misapprehend, that is to say, overestimate the actual degree of risk involved with hanging around random blacks in a public setting because they're reacting to an over-vivid memory of a bad incident or just a crude secondhand stereotype -- yet your reflexive response is to seize that as a fresh opportunity for finger-wagging and self-righteous anger at The Man? All because of the ho-hum daily fact that given people we encounter tend to have misplaced fears; talk about a messiah complex! Here is where your syllogism to Michael Brown backfires, because if you fly off the handle and behave like a Palestinian nutter every time something offends you, the rest of the under-aggravated populace eventually begins to take you less seriously... No matter how much NBC and the NY Times fawn all over your lovely black rage, it's not respect, it's just attention, as a screaming child would draw.
    , @Paleo Retiree
    You seriously run into a lot of white people who consider all black people to be the same, and who are willing to say so out loud? I can only speak for my little circles of white people, of course, but literally none of them would do such a thing. Most of them, in fact, are so left/lib that they can barely bring themselves to notice any black misbehavior at all, let alone generalize from any of it, except to blame all black misbehavior on poverty, rednecks and rich white Republicans. Not questioning your experience, just eager to hear more details.
    , @Brutusale
    Compare the number of white folks defending Dylann Roof's actions to the number of black folks defending Michael Brown's. That's your real bottom line.
    , @Ed
    The problem with your analysis is that it's the black middle class that is reinforcing the fact that the Michael Browns can be their sons, no one else.

    Obama saying that if he had sons they'd be like Trayvon was the epitome of their mindset.
    , @Sailer has an interesting life


    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don’t get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn’t understand why his hitters couldn’t “just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner.” Now I get it.
     
    If there needs any proof that Black American mind contains too much self esteem and too much concern about 'being dissed', this is it.

    I seem to remember that one explanation for the IQ difference was how Black Americans have low Self Esteem and that was shown by their test scores. Someone in the HBD community debunked that by showing studies that Black Americans have _higher_ SE than average. I may be missing the details of the debunking but Truth here has made it plain.

    Black Americans have too much self esteem and too little self control. When those two combine with a near constant barrage of seeing their people act like fools and a worry that anyone they speak to may hold them in low standing, the prospect for violence goes up.
  57. Almost Everybody Is Conservative About What They Care About Most

    This is a very different claim from Robert Conquest’s that people are most conservative about what they know best.

    Other than parenting one’s progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?

    • Replies: @Jefferson
    "This is a very different claim from Robert Conquest’s that people are most conservative about what they know best.

    Other than parenting one’s progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?"

    Not wanting to pay higher taxes seems to be the only conservative political view that is popular among all demographic groups in the U.S even among hardcore Democrats like Will Smith for example. I remember the Black liberal Obama supporter Will Smith said in an interview that he would not support the idea of America adopting France's tax laws where the wealthy 1 percent get taxed at a rate of 70 percent. Even a lot of Left Wingers do not want to be taxed to their eyeballs.

    I guess most people are conservative when it comes to wanting to keep the majority of the money they make. Most do not believe people should work so that the majority of their income goes to the government.

    , @International Jew

    Other than parenting one’s progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?
     
    Sure, college faculty. They urge open borders on us, while for themselves reserving the right to hand-pick just the right "community" of students and even advertising that as a feature.
  58. @Anonymous
    You don't need to copy and paste the entire article when nobody is going to read it.

    Making comments on sources you have not read is, arguably, a bigger problem.

  59. @Former Darfur
    Basically that's it. Blacks know instinctively, and correctly, they are not going to ever be "white" in their thinking or behavior, even as they know instinctively, and correctly, that "white" behavior and thinking is, or would be, better for themselves, their families, and their community.

    In that they are more honest than most white people, who live in a sort of fantasy that they can be successful entrepreneurs, or come out "ahead" in the game in some other way, usually until they are in their forties or fifties when reality finally sets in. I used to think all the time I would be this bigtime this or that, even well into my thirties, and supported libertarian and business-conservative ideas to a fault. That's why I voted Republican all those years. That's why I turned down union or government jobs that would have given me a defined benefit pension and 9 to 5, forty hour stability. In 1955 or 1965 my thinking would have probably given me a lot more interesting life and a decent retirement too, but having been born in the sixties, not so much.

    So blacks, at least, are acting in a sort of rational self interest, within the limits of their ability to think rationally. Whites choose not to do so and for that reason we are in trouble. if whites acted in terms of rational group self interest most of our issues would be fixed in five years. We'd secure the border, throw illegals out, reduce legal immigration to very little or none, tariff Chinese imports, and to put it bluntly we'd make black dysfunctionality so unpleasant for blacks they'd self-segregate or emigrate. We'd reduce their political power by requiring a voting test and we'd shut down any black church whose minister even hinted how his parishoners were supposed to vote as we do with the IRS to white ministers.

    But we won't, because we choose not to be rational and self-interested. In that we really are the lessers of the Blacks, and people like TNC pick up on that.

    ” That’s why I turned down union or government jobs that would have given me a defined benefit pension and 9 to 5, forty hour stability. In 1955 or 1965 my thinking would have probably given me a lot more interesting life and a decent retirement too, but having been born in the sixties, not so much.”

    It is increasingly difficult, but lots of people are still successful in business. We have more millionaires now than ever before.

    “So blacks, at least, are acting in a sort of rational self interest, within the limits of their ability to think rationally. Whites choose not to do so and for that reason we are in trouble. if whites acted in terms of rational group self interest most of our issues would be fixed in five years. We’d secure the border, throw illegals out, reduce legal immigration to very little or none, tariff Chinese imports, and to put it bluntly we’d make black dysfunctionality so unpleasant for blacks they’d self-segregate or emigrate.”

    There is no more a “rational white universal self-interest” than there is a black one. Whom, would these changes help?

    Close the border, throw illegals out, reduce immigration? Who benefits? Rich white people (the only ones who truly count) become less rich with these policies, as they have always thrived upon cheap/free labor, and simple-minded consumer class. Tariff Chinese imports? Sales would go down, because we wouldn’t be able to sell as many goods, black emigrating? Who do you think builds, staffs, and gets rich off of the prison system, blacks?

    I would say that your conversion from 80’s era libertarian to socialist is complete, even if you did not realize it.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    It is increasingly difficult, but lots of people are still successful in business. We have more millionaires now than ever before.
     
    In "The Millionaire Next Door", IIRC, the authors cited a stat that the average successful entrepreneur failed 3 times before succeeding. Something like that.

    There is no more a “rational white universal self-interest” than there is a black one. Whom, would these changes help?
     
    Most Americans, blacks included. Though I think the Richman's Scaled Tariff idea makes a bit more sense than a plain vanilla tariff.

    Rich white people (the only ones who truly count) become less rich with these policies, as they have always thrived upon cheap/free labor, and simple-minded consumer class.
     
    Rich people tend to be good at adapting. There were rich people in America when it had a trade surplus and restricted immigration, and there are rich people now.

    Tariff Chinese imports? Sales would go down, because we wouldn’t be able to sell as many goods
     
    We're already selling less to the Chinese than they sell here: that's the trade deficit. Read up on the scaled tariff. Implementing it would prompt foreign manufacturers to open factories here. once our trade with China is in balance, the scaled tariff goes away. We are the world's largest consumer market in dollar terms; we can use that leverage to balance trade. Instead, we've been chumps on trade for decades.

    Who do you think builds, staffs, and gets rich off of the prison system, blacks?
     
    There are plenty of black corrections officers.
  60. @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to[sic] Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”

    Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?

    • Replies: @Truth
    No, you miss the point. A bit of malfeasance from Michael Brown, and white people look at you and say; "why do your people always act like that."

    A bit from Dylann Roof and they do not say, "why do my people act like that", they say "what a creep."

    White people afford themselves the PRIVILEGE of disassociating with white idiots, black people are not given the same right.
    , @Ozymandias
    "Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?"

    A more illuminating illustration: What percentage of blacks will defend a violent bullying thug or a heroin dealer? The majority, it would seem. Now what percentage of Whites will defend Dylann Roof? Only the extremist fringe.
  61. Also almost everybody believes in HBD when it comes to the probably most important decision anybody makes in his life: whom to have children with

  62. Some may be wondering what happened to Tevon White :

    Infamous Baltimore prison to be immediately shut down, governor says

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/30/baltimore-city-dentention-center-closing

    [MORE]

    The investigation also exposed sexual relations between jailhouse gang leader Tavon White and female guards that left four of them pregnant.

  63. @Paleo Retiree
    Does anybody know how TNC got his break? Who picked him out of obscurity and started putting his thoughts and his words out there in the mainstream? How did he go from being a nobody to being a featured somebody? Wikipedia doesn't tell me, and I'm reluctant to disappear down the rabbit hole of TNC info online, so I'm hoping someone knows and can tell me.

    And don't think -- not even FOR A SECOND -- that my question is motivated by anything like bitterness over the fact that, even though I'm a clearer writer than TNC and a smarter and more original culture-observer, during my decades in the media biz no one ever plucked me out of obscurity, threw money at me, and put me out there as a featured thinker. Nope, doesn't bother me A BIT that TNC is making a living for himself (and no doubt enjoying the spotlight) complaining about how rough it is for him to be black when he's had a very nice gig fall in his lap at a still-young age while dozens if not hundreds of equally good (actually better, IMHO) writers have never had anything like his luck ...

    Why on earth does TNC think he has had it so hard when, as a writer, he has basically won the lottery? Forget me -- how about Steve Sailer? As a writer, who's had it (and continues to have it) rougher: TNC, or Steve?

    ABN's comment (the one that Steve copies in the body of his posting) is really good.

    His dad was a Black Panther.

  64. @Truth
    " That’s why I turned down union or government jobs that would have given me a defined benefit pension and 9 to 5, forty hour stability. In 1955 or 1965 my thinking would have probably given me a lot more interesting life and a decent retirement too, but having been born in the sixties, not so much."

    It is increasingly difficult, but lots of people are still successful in business. We have more millionaires now than ever before.

    "So blacks, at least, are acting in a sort of rational self interest, within the limits of their ability to think rationally. Whites choose not to do so and for that reason we are in trouble. if whites acted in terms of rational group self interest most of our issues would be fixed in five years. We’d secure the border, throw illegals out, reduce legal immigration to very little or none, tariff Chinese imports, and to put it bluntly we’d make black dysfunctionality so unpleasant for blacks they’d self-segregate or emigrate."

    There is no more a "rational white universal self-interest" than there is a black one. Whom, would these changes help?

    Close the border, throw illegals out, reduce immigration? Who benefits? Rich white people (the only ones who truly count) become less rich with these policies, as they have always thrived upon cheap/free labor, and simple-minded consumer class. Tariff Chinese imports? Sales would go down, because we wouldn't be able to sell as many goods, black emigrating? Who do you think builds, staffs, and gets rich off of the prison system, blacks?

    I would say that your conversion from 80's era libertarian to socialist is complete, even if you did not realize it.

    It is increasingly difficult, but lots of people are still successful in business. We have more millionaires now than ever before.

    In “The Millionaire Next Door”, IIRC, the authors cited a stat that the average successful entrepreneur failed 3 times before succeeding. Something like that.

    There is no more a “rational white universal self-interest” than there is a black one. Whom, would these changes help?

    Most Americans, blacks included. Though I think the Richman’s Scaled Tariff idea makes a bit more sense than a plain vanilla tariff.

    Rich white people (the only ones who truly count) become less rich with these policies, as they have always thrived upon cheap/free labor, and simple-minded consumer class.

    Rich people tend to be good at adapting. There were rich people in America when it had a trade surplus and restricted immigration, and there are rich people now.

    Tariff Chinese imports? Sales would go down, because we wouldn’t be able to sell as many goods

    We’re already selling less to the Chinese than they sell here: that’s the trade deficit. Read up on the scaled tariff. Implementing it would prompt foreign manufacturers to open factories here. once our trade with China is in balance, the scaled tariff goes away. We are the world’s largest consumer market in dollar terms; we can use that leverage to balance trade. Instead, we’ve been chumps on trade for decades.

    Who do you think builds, staffs, and gets rich off of the prison system, blacks?

    There are plenty of black corrections officers.

    • Replies: @Truth
    "There are plenty of black corrections officers."

    No, I said who is GETTING RICH. $70,000 a year is a fine salary, but the top of the ownership class, which as I said earlier is the only thing in America that counts anymore, is MAYBE 1% black (probably more like statistical noise), and these are the people that get rich on every decision in America.

    The older you get Dave, you realize that to understand a social issue, you don't watch talking heads on the news, you just follow the money trail, and it always leads to the same hands.
  65. @syonredux
    He plainly has a poetic objective in mind (hence, as you note, the Homeric frequency of its use), but the phrase "black bodies" plainly does have meaning for TNC. It's a Racial-Gender Studies buzz-word, a shibboleth for the cognoscenti.Using it (and not "Blacks" or "Black people") is a sign of his position within the radical hierarchy.Old school race-men use words like Black, but that's uncool, essentialist, ante-Lacanian, pre- Derridean, etc

    TNC is definitely down with the genderqueer/intersectional crowd. Not as a full fledged member but as an “ally”. Even people like Tim Wise use “black folks”.

  66. @Kylie

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to[sic] Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”
     
    Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?

    No, you miss the point. A bit of malfeasance from Michael Brown, and white people look at you and say; “why do your people always act like that.”

    A bit from Dylann Roof and they do not say, “why do my people act like that”, they say “what a creep.”

    White people afford themselves the PRIVILEGE of disassociating with white idiots, black people are not given the same right.

    • Replies: @BurplesonAFB
    Per capita violent crime rates mean nothing to you? Or are they just compiled by racist whites in the fbi and doj

    8x as many murders. What's wrong with you people?
  67. @Maj. Kong
    Hillary gets lower support from whites, than from minorities. A surprising amount of white leftists believed we had a New Deal-like permanent realignment in 2008, and are seething that Obama didn't deliver socialism by bashing the GOP head on. That is the essence of the Bernie Sanders coalition.

    By contrast, for most minorities, they appear more politically satisfied than ever. Clinton is the candidate of continuity.

    “Hillary gets lower support from whites, than from minorities.”

    And Hillary Clinton will continue to get lower support from White voters as long as she continues to embrace Black Lives Matter over All Lives Matter. I doubt very much the White guy in Cincinnati, Ohio who got beat down by a Black mob gangsta style, is going to be voting for Hillary.

    Hillary Clinton being the anti-White male Feminiazi that she is most likely believes the White guy deserved the beat down that he got because just his very existence as a Cisgender White male is enough to oppress Black bodies.

    Hillary Clinton most likely feels guilt over the fact that a Cisgender White male (her father) produced her. She was created by a racist oppressor of Black bodies and that eats her up inside.

  68. @Dave Pinsen

    It is increasingly difficult, but lots of people are still successful in business. We have more millionaires now than ever before.
     
    In "The Millionaire Next Door", IIRC, the authors cited a stat that the average successful entrepreneur failed 3 times before succeeding. Something like that.

    There is no more a “rational white universal self-interest” than there is a black one. Whom, would these changes help?
     
    Most Americans, blacks included. Though I think the Richman's Scaled Tariff idea makes a bit more sense than a plain vanilla tariff.

    Rich white people (the only ones who truly count) become less rich with these policies, as they have always thrived upon cheap/free labor, and simple-minded consumer class.
     
    Rich people tend to be good at adapting. There were rich people in America when it had a trade surplus and restricted immigration, and there are rich people now.

    Tariff Chinese imports? Sales would go down, because we wouldn’t be able to sell as many goods
     
    We're already selling less to the Chinese than they sell here: that's the trade deficit. Read up on the scaled tariff. Implementing it would prompt foreign manufacturers to open factories here. once our trade with China is in balance, the scaled tariff goes away. We are the world's largest consumer market in dollar terms; we can use that leverage to balance trade. Instead, we've been chumps on trade for decades.

    Who do you think builds, staffs, and gets rich off of the prison system, blacks?
     
    There are plenty of black corrections officers.

    “There are plenty of black corrections officers.”

    No, I said who is GETTING RICH. $70,000 a year is a fine salary, but the top of the ownership class, which as I said earlier is the only thing in America that counts anymore, is MAYBE 1% black (probably more like statistical noise), and these are the people that get rich on every decision in America.

    The older you get Dave, you realize that to understand a social issue, you don’t watch talking heads on the news, you just follow the money trail, and it always leads to the same hands.

  69. @Reg Cæsar

    Almost Everybody Is Conservative About What They Care About Most
     
    This is a very different claim from Robert Conquest's that people are most conservative about what they know best.

    Other than parenting one's progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?

    “This is a very different claim from Robert Conquest’s that people are most conservative about what they know best.

    Other than parenting one’s progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?”

    Not wanting to pay higher taxes seems to be the only conservative political view that is popular among all demographic groups in the U.S even among hardcore Democrats like Will Smith for example. I remember the Black liberal Obama supporter Will Smith said in an interview that he would not support the idea of America adopting France’s tax laws where the wealthy 1 percent get taxed at a rate of 70 percent. Even a lot of Left Wingers do not want to be taxed to their eyeballs.

    I guess most people are conservative when it comes to wanting to keep the majority of the money they make. Most do not believe people should work so that the majority of their income goes to the government.

  70. Ed says:
    @Former Darfur
    Basically that's it. Blacks know instinctively, and correctly, they are not going to ever be "white" in their thinking or behavior, even as they know instinctively, and correctly, that "white" behavior and thinking is, or would be, better for themselves, their families, and their community.

    In that they are more honest than most white people, who live in a sort of fantasy that they can be successful entrepreneurs, or come out "ahead" in the game in some other way, usually until they are in their forties or fifties when reality finally sets in. I used to think all the time I would be this bigtime this or that, even well into my thirties, and supported libertarian and business-conservative ideas to a fault. That's why I voted Republican all those years. That's why I turned down union or government jobs that would have given me a defined benefit pension and 9 to 5, forty hour stability. In 1955 or 1965 my thinking would have probably given me a lot more interesting life and a decent retirement too, but having been born in the sixties, not so much.

    So blacks, at least, are acting in a sort of rational self interest, within the limits of their ability to think rationally. Whites choose not to do so and for that reason we are in trouble. if whites acted in terms of rational group self interest most of our issues would be fixed in five years. We'd secure the border, throw illegals out, reduce legal immigration to very little or none, tariff Chinese imports, and to put it bluntly we'd make black dysfunctionality so unpleasant for blacks they'd self-segregate or emigrate. We'd reduce their political power by requiring a voting test and we'd shut down any black church whose minister even hinted how his parishoners were supposed to vote as we do with the IRS to white ministers.

    But we won't, because we choose not to be rational and self-interested. In that we really are the lessers of the Blacks, and people like TNC pick up on that.

    That’s how the U.S. was before the 1960s but post war affluence led to arrogance. Something had to be done about black civil rights. Instead of the South fighting so hard against integration they should have adopted the strategy the French used in their African colonies, earned citizenship.

    The Civil Rights Movement was lead by a frustrated relatively solid middle class blacks who felt their aspirations were stunted.They could have been easily bought off with select access to certain white schools, neighborhoods or jobs. Instead far more reaching laws were passed that upended the USA.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    It seems to me that affirmative action programs are overwhelmingly targeted at the black middle class and higher. Getting your kid into a better university, or having your company get more government contracts is something very few poor people are worried about.
  71. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    “The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is “you are all the same.” Now, white people want “you are all the same” when it benefits them, and “c’mon man you better than that!” When it benefits them.”

    Truth — I think the point here is more subtle than ‘middle class blacks should condemn underclass blacks’. It is that middle class blacks are in a pretty stressful position, since as you point out criticism of underclass blacks violates a legitimate desire for racial solidarity and participates in a project that can end up siding with whites who are at least influenced by racist beliefs. On the other hand standing with underclass blacks is tough because middle class blacks do at least privately understand that a lot of underclass behaviors are destructive and counterproductive and harmful to those who engage in them as well as the broader black community. So you get this oscillation back and forth. Nation of Islam worked well for some because it combined maximal condemnation of the white devil with maximum pressure for a conservative lifestyle. But that kind of separatism is no longer really feasible.

    This all showed up very intensely in the Ferguson thing. The real reason to condemn people like Michael Brown is because you want to deliver the lesson to your kids that you shouldn’t knock over convenience stores and then attack police officers. It’s rather dangerous for a community to make a hero out of someone like that. On the other hand, being honest about his self-destructive behavior would have robbed all the force out of a campaign against police violence that may yet result in some positive effect.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Much of the so-called black middle class are only middle class because of affirmative action, fat government jobs, and social services related enterprises.

    It is not a genuine middle class that you find in other communities.

    Take away the boosters that make the black middle class what it is, and more than half of the black middle class will be ghetto class.
  72. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    You don’t sincerely worry about your life intersecting with someone like the Charleston shooter, do you? That would leave you as helpless and paranoid as some portly white housewife addicted to “CSI” and “Criminal Minds” who believes in the existence of one goth bondage-freak serial killer per elementary school faculty/daycare center.

    By the same token there are a lot of SWPL whites who misapprehend, that is to say, overestimate the actual degree of risk involved with hanging around random blacks in a public setting because they’re reacting to an over-vivid memory of a bad incident or just a crude secondhand stereotype — yet your reflexive response is to seize that as a fresh opportunity for finger-wagging and self-righteous anger at The Man? All because of the ho-hum daily fact that given people we encounter tend to have misplaced fears; talk about a messiah complex! Here is where your syllogism to Michael Brown backfires, because if you fly off the handle and behave like a Palestinian nutter every time something offends you, the rest of the under-aggravated populace eventually begins to take you less seriously… No matter how much NBC and the NY Times fawn all over your lovely black rage, it’s not respect, it’s just attention, as a screaming child would draw.

  73. @Hans Olo
    More sensible comments from Bernie Sanders on immigration. He's as leftwing as heck, but he's smart and he's not a slave to corporate interests, which means he can think more clearly on this issue.

    He still supports amnesty, but maybe he realizes he can only push back so far considering the present state of liberal politics.


    '“What they are talking about is completely opening up the border. That was the question, should we have a completely open border, so that anybody can come into the United States of America. If that were to happen, which I strongly disagree with, there is no question in my mind that that was substantially lower wages in this country.

    "When you have 36 percent of Hispanic kids in this country who can’t find jobs, and you bring a lot of unskilled workers into this country, what do you think happens to that 36 percent of kids who are today unemployed? Fifty-one percent of African-American kids? I don’t think there’s any presidential candidate, none, who thinks we should open up the borders," said Sanders.'

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/

    He still supports amnesty…

    But he so smart!

    LOL!

    HAHAHAHA

    Ur post is unintentionally hilarious

  74. @Paleo Retiree
    Thanks for the nice and kind words. My own guess would be that TNC has been playing the game rather less consciously than some might imagine -- that he's the beneficiary of others who are playing the game more shrewdly, or at least deliberately, than he is. (FWIW, and not that it matters: I'm less unworldly than I sometimes make myself out to be. Playing Columbo is one of my favorite pasttimes. And I'm long past feeling bitter. Blogging was very fulfilling.)

    Well, there are some interesting hints as to why he was hired:

    “Ta-Nehisi is amazing in the way he thinks out loud and invites people in,” says James Bennet, the Atlantic’s editor in chief. “He’s carrying out his extraordinary intellectual development in public. He’s very direct about what he doesn’t know.”

    Once, Bennet recalls, Coates was engaged in a gun control debate on the Atlantic’s Web site with Jeffrey Goldberg, a well-known colleague at the magazine. Goldberg referred to the philosopher and theologian Saint Augustine. Coates confessed that he didn’t know who Saint Augustine was, then charged ahead with the debate.

    “I can’t think of another writer who wouldn’t have Googled it!” Bennet says.”

    I find it quite astounding that TNC can’t quite catch the aura of paternalistic condescension in such remarks. Bennet is basically saying that he hired an underqualified man to write for THE ATLANTIC. His reason: So that the good White folks who read the magazine can be edified by watching him learn and grow.

    As he speaks, Coates seems to be working out the logical string on the spot, circling back to the beginning and editing himself, refining the argument, then re-refining it. He is 6-foot-4 and has a round, soft-looking face that makes him appear younger than he is. When he’s groping for a word, and that is often, he tends to fill the gaps with “you knows” and bursts of laughter followed by bursts of ideas.

    He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.

    coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/with-atlantic-article-on-reparations-ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

    • Replies: @syonredux
    And I'm still rather flabbergasted by the notion that The Atlantic would hire such a man.The Atlantic , after all, was founded by men like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Henry Wasdsworth Longfellow, James Russell Lowell, etc*.And its contributors have included men like Mark Twain, Henry James, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Vannevar Bush, George F Kennan

    Of course, the decision to abandon Boston in favor of Washington can be seen as marking the death of the old Atlantic:

    In April 2005, however, the publishers announced that the editorial offices would be moved from its long-time home at 77 North Washington Street in Boston to join the company's advertising and circulation divisions in Washington, D.C.[23] Later in August, Bradley told the New York Observer, cost cutting from the move would amount to a minor $200,000–$300,000 and those savings would be swallowed by severance-related spending. The reason was to create a hub in Washington where the top minds from all of Bradley's publications could collaborate under the Atlantic Media Company umbrella. Few of the Boston staff agreed to relocate, and Bradley embarked on an open search for a new editorial staff.[24]

    In 2006, Bradley hired James Bennet as editor-in-chief, who had been the Jerusalem bureau chief for The New York Times. He also hired writers including Jeffrey Goldberg and Andrew Sullivan.[25] Jay Lauf joined the organization as publisher and vice-president in 2008.
     
    *Of course, nowadays the magazine seems slightly embarrassed by its WASPy pedigree:

    They included Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, James Russell Lowell, Oliver Wendell Holmes, and several other gentlemen with three names and impeccable Brahmin breeding—men from the sort of families, as Holmes once noted wryly, that had not been perceptibly affected by the consequences of Adam's fall.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/about/atlhistf.htm
    , @Truth
    "He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild."

    Or nervous, but thanks for the translation.
    , @Paleo Retiree
    Thanks, nice find.

    It's quite amazing too that TNC isn't bothered by the fact that he's carrying on as he does when he was picked out of the gutter -- where by his own account black people weren't treating him well -- and turned into a featured writer and thinker by white people. A lot of black people treated him shittily; meanwhile some white people handed him a very sweet life. Given his life and his luck, you'd think what TNC would be writing would be odes to the wonderfulness of white people.

    Do you suppose TNC thinks that David Carr and James Bennet owed/owe him reparations? Ahahahahahaha.
  75. @FactsAreImportant
    I think I've figured out why Ta constantly repeats the phrase “black bodies”.

    The phrase doesn’t have any real meaning because it doesn’t add any information. Replacing "black bodies" with simpler phrases such as “blacks” conveys the actual information more simply and directly.

    But Ta’s objective is not to convey information. Rather, Ta’s purpose is poetic. He is trying to create a tribal bonding experience with the hypnotic repetition of various images, phrases, chants, and tokens.

    Ta uses “black bodies” as a poetic trope. The phrase stretches out the word “black” from one syllable to three syllables. It is also alliterative. The phrase “black bodies” also has a syncopated rhythm, because the emphasis falls on the second syllable. To see this, repeatedly chant the phrase to a 4/4 rhythm with a rest on the fourth beat. “Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause], Black - BOD - ies - [pause]; etc.”

    His repetition of the phrase “people who think they are white” has a similar poetic purpose. It stretches out the single word “white” while insulting whites with every repetition.

    He can fill vast stretches of prose by concatenating such stretched-out phrases.

    Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases. For instance, he often wrote “he spoke forth winged words” rather than just “he said”. When describing various characters, he pads out the text by repeating descriptions of each character whenever the character is mentioned. For instance, Achilles is often called “swift-footed Achilles”, even when Achilles is not doing anything swift-footed at that moment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithets_in_Homer)

    Preachers often use the repetition of overblown phrases to stretch out their sermons because their objective is not to convey information, but to induce a religious trance via repetition. Similarly, Ta’s main purpose is not to convey information. Indeed, most of the purported “information” in his essays is nonsense. (He seems to chant obviously false memes such as “the Ferguson murder” to signal that truth is irrelevant to him.)

    Right! TNC is repeating the popular buzz-phrases that help blacks bond into a force. Black bodies is one of them. Logic is out, poetry and emotional rages are in.
    The best indicator of black success in this country is their over-employment in many gov’t agencies, affirmative action on steroids. Another success indicator is all the gov’t welfare, housing, medical, ObamaKare out there for them. They know how to work the system which in raw terms means getting whitey (plus some Asians) to surrender their money via taxation. Of course with gov’t as intermediary, but then gov’t employed blacks are doing a lot of the money transferring to their brethren

  76. @syonredux
    Well, there are some interesting hints as to why he was hired:

    “Ta-Nehisi is amazing in the way he thinks out loud and invites people in,” says James Bennet, the Atlantic’s editor in chief. “He’s carrying out his extraordinary intellectual development in public. He’s very direct about what he doesn’t know.”

    Once, Bennet recalls, Coates was engaged in a gun control debate on the Atlantic’s Web site with Jeffrey Goldberg, a well-known colleague at the magazine. Goldberg referred to the philosopher and theologian Saint Augustine. Coates confessed that he didn’t know who Saint Augustine was, then charged ahead with the debate.

    “I can’t think of another writer who wouldn’t have Googled it!” Bennet says.”
     
    I find it quite astounding that TNC can’t quite catch the aura of paternalistic condescension in such remarks. Bennet is basically saying that he hired an underqualified man to write for THE ATLANTIC. His reason: So that the good White folks who read the magazine can be edified by watching him learn and grow.

    As he speaks, Coates seems to be working out the logical string on the spot, circling back to the beginning and editing himself, refining the argument, then re-refining it. He is 6-foot-4 and has a round, soft-looking face that makes him appear younger than he is. When he’s groping for a word, and that is often, he tends to fill the gaps with “you knows” and bursts of laughter followed by bursts of ideas.
     
    He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.

    coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/with-atlantic-article-on-reparations-ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

    And I’m still rather flabbergasted by the notion that The Atlantic would hire such a man.The Atlantic , after all, was founded by men like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Henry Wasdsworth Longfellow, James Russell Lowell, etc*.And its contributors have included men like Mark Twain, Henry James, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Vannevar Bush, George F Kennan

    Of course, the decision to abandon Boston in favor of Washington can be seen as marking the death of the old Atlantic:

    In April 2005, however, the publishers announced that the editorial offices would be moved from its long-time home at 77 North Washington Street in Boston to join the company’s advertising and circulation divisions in Washington, D.C.[23] Later in August, Bradley told the New York Observer, cost cutting from the move would amount to a minor $200,000–$300,000 and those savings would be swallowed by severance-related spending. The reason was to create a hub in Washington where the top minds from all of Bradley’s publications could collaborate under the Atlantic Media Company umbrella. Few of the Boston staff agreed to relocate, and Bradley embarked on an open search for a new editorial staff.[24]

    In 2006, Bradley hired James Bennet as editor-in-chief, who had been the Jerusalem bureau chief for The New York Times. He also hired writers including Jeffrey Goldberg and Andrew Sullivan.[25] Jay Lauf joined the organization as publisher and vice-president in 2008.

    *Of course, nowadays the magazine seems slightly embarrassed by its WASPy pedigree:

    They included Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, James Russell Lowell, Oliver Wendell Holmes, and several other gentlemen with three names and impeccable Brahmin breeding—men from the sort of families, as Holmes once noted wryly, that had not been perceptibly affected by the consequences of Adam’s fall.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/about/atlhistf.htm

  77. @Luke Lea
    OT, perhaps, but I was impressed by this YouTube video of some Massai tribesmen staring down a pack of lions to get their meat. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could live in their element, in a world of their own? https://goo.gl/hgQWM8

    It´s scavenging. Man is the apex predator, after all. All animals are afraid of humans, with or without guns. It´s a form of scavenging that admitedly still takes some bravery. It may come down to on how hungry the lions are when you steal their prey.

  78. @duderino
    It strikes me that most blacks have more in common with conservatives than liberals. Most African Americans are not crazy about mass immigration, gay marriage, or vegetarianism. It's really only a vocal minority that are in the social justice crowd. The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.

    Blacks heavily depend on the government to redistribute economic resources from whites over to them via welfare and affirmative action. Without affirmative action almost the entire black middle class wouldn’t exist and without welfare lots of underclass blacks would starve to death or have to work low paying unpleasant menial jobs. They’ll never support the Republican party in large numbers because of that and taking socially conservative positions on things like gay marriage won’t change that.

  79. @syonredux
    Well, there are some interesting hints as to why he was hired:

    “Ta-Nehisi is amazing in the way he thinks out loud and invites people in,” says James Bennet, the Atlantic’s editor in chief. “He’s carrying out his extraordinary intellectual development in public. He’s very direct about what he doesn’t know.”

    Once, Bennet recalls, Coates was engaged in a gun control debate on the Atlantic’s Web site with Jeffrey Goldberg, a well-known colleague at the magazine. Goldberg referred to the philosopher and theologian Saint Augustine. Coates confessed that he didn’t know who Saint Augustine was, then charged ahead with the debate.

    “I can’t think of another writer who wouldn’t have Googled it!” Bennet says.”
     
    I find it quite astounding that TNC can’t quite catch the aura of paternalistic condescension in such remarks. Bennet is basically saying that he hired an underqualified man to write for THE ATLANTIC. His reason: So that the good White folks who read the magazine can be edified by watching him learn and grow.

    As he speaks, Coates seems to be working out the logical string on the spot, circling back to the beginning and editing himself, refining the argument, then re-refining it. He is 6-foot-4 and has a round, soft-looking face that makes him appear younger than he is. When he’s groping for a word, and that is often, he tends to fill the gaps with “you knows” and bursts of laughter followed by bursts of ideas.
     
    He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.

    coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/with-atlantic-article-on-reparations-ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

    “He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.”

    Or nervous, but thanks for the translation.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    “He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.”

    Or nervous, but thanks for the translation.
     
    Well, nervous about being an inarticulate manchild....
  80. @Ed
    I probably shouldn't be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I've seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven't missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I've been blissfully unaware of?

    “I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts?”

    Our esteemed host is a metaphor whore. Satire is often most comfortable couched within metaphor. Allow me to illustrate: Go to the front page at Yahoo and read through the headlines. A pattern quickly becomes apparent. Blacks in this country are under siege, they are being attacked on all fronts. They are being gunned down by police, denied opportunities to find employment, forced into substandard housing, vilified by the press, scapegoated for crime, and being discriminated against at every turn. This, of course, is total horseshit. And yet, there it is, printed in black and white, and presented to you by authority as though it is factual.

    Now let us contrast that with the issue of Mr. Coates. The same conducters who have been hired to orchestrate the above narrative are also informing us that TNC is one of America’s foremost intellectuals. But even a cursory examination reveals this falsehood. I believe that FactsAreImportant did a very nice job of summing up Coates’ style. All style, no substance. It is pentameter that reads better when there is no provocation of thought to distract you.

    The “meandering” piece posted by Syon is by far the best work I’ve ever seen from Coates. Instead of trying to wax beats he actually attempted to say something. My personal philosophy is much more closely aligned with that of Cosby, but at least Coates managed to temporarily refrain from his propensity for rabid autofellatio by pity.

    Also, a note about O’Keefe’s comment “Black bodies is intended to prevent a person from thinking logically about DNA & race.” People often mistake intent with outcome. Coates is simply trying to crank out poetry he can sell. The side effect you’ve highlighted is what gives the phrase its power, and brings praise from his masters, but it was unplanned. Coates is little more than a witch doctor reciting magic incantations.

  81. @Nope
    In a saner world, the Talented Tenth would have an aristocratic attitude of protective paternalism toward black proles...

    Well, in this world no such black paternalism exists. Maybe because black aristocracy doesn't exist. And it is not a function of leftism.

    There is here the failure to identify the profound difference between aristocracy and the African Big Man model of cronyism.

    “There is here the failure to identify the profound difference between aristocracy and the African Big Man model of cronyism.”

    This is a very important point. When I began seriously thinking about Negro culture, society and politics (starting about fifteen years ago) one of the first things I noticed was the ubiquity of the “big man” model of social and political structure. Whenever and where ever there is a Negro community, one finds that community organizing around some one leader who represents the community to the outside world, more or less runs the community according to his whim at every level, and get’s a lion’s share of community resources. Usually the man is surrounded by a phalanx of men and women who act as his flunkies but inherit some of his charisma/power when dealing with ordinary members of the community. The universal existence of women in this coterie – sometimes to the entire exclusion of men – seems to be unique to Negro social organization. The women are not always sexual consorts of but do adulate the big man. This pattern seems universal from African tribes, chiefdoms and kingdoms through the local religious leaders that are ubiquitous in the USA, Caribbean, and the Guyannas and Brazil.

    I’ve decided that this must have something to do with Negro psychology. When better than 80% of a population have below USA average IQs, levels of self-control, linternal discount rates, and time horizons; and an apparently high innate propensity towards violence it makes sense to have things run by one of the most intelligent members of the community. And it makes further sense that this big man would exploit his position to the maximum possible extent. For Negroes this form of organization may be a feature not a bug. One more reason why it seems to me impossible to integrate Whites and Negroes into one common socio-political system that will satisfy the needs of the majorities of each race.

  82. Keep everything the same, from the back-story of growing up in East Baltimore to the content and style of writing about race…BUT…change his name from Ta-Nehisi to Bill and all of it disappears. [The same can be said about Barack Obama.] It’s kind of funny how that works.

    Regarding his obsession with Black Bodies…could it have anything to to with his gayness? [I see the term “whiteness” used more and more. I found it annoying until I started wantonly tacking on the suffix myself. Now, I find it both amusing, and frankly quite enjoyable.]

    TNC’s writing has a certain Beckness feel to it; specifically from the lyrics of Loser, but without the humor. Seriously, I could just see TNC, in another attempt to be provocative, writing something like this:

    In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey. Butane in my veins, so I’m out to cut the junkie. Don’t believe everything that you breathe, you get a parking violation and a maggot on your sleeve. So shave your face with some mace in the dark, saving’ all your food stamps and burning’ down the trailer park.

    Yo. Cut it.

    Whites are losers, baby. So why do they kill me?

    Forces of evil in a bozo nightmare, banned all the music with a phony gas chamber. You can’t write if you can’t relate. Trade the cash for the beef…for the body…for the hate. And my time is a piece of wax, falling’ on a termite. Who’s choking’ on the splinters.

    And from this, people like Noah Smith would be saying we’re in the midst of Tolstoy. Too funny.

  83. @tbraton
    "Homer used many such repeated, meaningless phrases."

    I think it has been well-established by now that the epic poems "The Iliad" and "The Odyssey," the first pieces of literature of Western Civilization (and some maintain still the best), were originally delivered orally (sung) by the poet Homer and later reduced to writing. It has been speculated that the repetition of phrases throughout both epic poems (which are quite long) serve as a mnemonic device making it easier for the singer (Homer or someone else) to remember the words of what are rather long poems. Scholars have found modern day bards in the Balkans who sing long poems, and the works they sing contain the same pattern of repetitious phrases to facilitate recall. There is a scene in the latter part of the Odyssey where Odysseus, having been found shipwrecked on the beach of an island near his home island of Ithaca, is being honored by the king at a feast where a bard entertains the audience after dinner by singing an epic poem about the Trojan War (where Odysseus had fought and lost many comrades during the long war) which brought Odysseus to tears, which he tried to hide from his host unsuccessfully. It should be remembered that the ancient Greeks and modern scholars both tend to place the creation of The Iliad and The Odyssey around 1000 BC, which happened to coincide with the Dark Ages of ancient Greece, their previous use of writing having been lost as a result of the Dorian invasions and only reintroduced around 800 BC by the Phoenicians. The tyrant of Athens preceding the introduction of democracy, Peisistratus, had the Iliad and Odyssey reduced to writing since there were various versions around and both epics formed an important part of Greek education, much like the Bible used to be as part of English and American educational tradition. Those written versions henceforth became the definitive versions of both epics in the ancient Greek world, as I recall.

    Scholars have found modern day bards in the Balkans who sing long poems, and the works they sing contain the same pattern of repetitious phrases to facilitate recall.

    This is correct, but epithets serve another function as well. While one would have to know Ancient Greek to fully appreciate it, The Iliad and The Odyssey were both composed to fit a certain meter. Using epithets preserves the meter.

    • Replies: @tbraton
    Good point.

    I should have added to my original post to make my point clearer why it is absurd to cite Homer as justification for TNC's literary devices. The repetition in Homer not only served as a mnemonic device to aid recall of a long poem originally sung or recited orally but, as you correctly point out, to help fill a line to satisfy the meter. TNC's essays are written, not oral, and they are written in prose, not poetry, so it is ridiculous to borrow a literary device which made great sense to Homer creating great works of literature nearly 3000 years ago. The epic form of literature was quite common in the early days of ancient Greece (and extending into the early days of the Roman Empire, i.e., The Aeneid) but not so much today, when Twitter seems to have replaced it in popularity.
  84. @Kylie

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to[sic] Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”
     
    Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?

    “Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?”

    A more illuminating illustration: What percentage of blacks will defend a violent bullying thug or a heroin dealer? The majority, it would seem. Now what percentage of Whites will defend Dylann Roof? Only the extremist fringe.

    • Replies: @Truth
    Please ATTEMPT to re-read my original post. You don't have to succeed, but please make the attempt.
  85. @syonredux
    Well, there are some interesting hints as to why he was hired:

    “Ta-Nehisi is amazing in the way he thinks out loud and invites people in,” says James Bennet, the Atlantic’s editor in chief. “He’s carrying out his extraordinary intellectual development in public. He’s very direct about what he doesn’t know.”

    Once, Bennet recalls, Coates was engaged in a gun control debate on the Atlantic’s Web site with Jeffrey Goldberg, a well-known colleague at the magazine. Goldberg referred to the philosopher and theologian Saint Augustine. Coates confessed that he didn’t know who Saint Augustine was, then charged ahead with the debate.

    “I can’t think of another writer who wouldn’t have Googled it!” Bennet says.”
     
    I find it quite astounding that TNC can’t quite catch the aura of paternalistic condescension in such remarks. Bennet is basically saying that he hired an underqualified man to write for THE ATLANTIC. His reason: So that the good White folks who read the magazine can be edified by watching him learn and grow.

    As he speaks, Coates seems to be working out the logical string on the spot, circling back to the beginning and editing himself, refining the argument, then re-refining it. He is 6-foot-4 and has a round, soft-looking face that makes him appear younger than he is. When he’s groping for a word, and that is often, he tends to fill the gaps with “you knows” and bursts of laughter followed by bursts of ideas.
     
    He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.

    coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html >http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/with-atlantic-article-on-reparations-ta-nehisi-coates-sees-payoff-for-years-of-struggle/2014/06/18/6a2bd10e-f636-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html

    Thanks, nice find.

    It’s quite amazing too that TNC isn’t bothered by the fact that he’s carrying on as he does when he was picked out of the gutter — where by his own account black people weren’t treating him well — and turned into a featured writer and thinker by white people. A lot of black people treated him shittily; meanwhile some white people handed him a very sweet life. Given his life and his luck, you’d think what TNC would be writing would be odes to the wonderfulness of white people.

    Do you suppose TNC thinks that David Carr and James Bennet owed/owe him reparations? Ahahahahahaha.

  86. @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    You seriously run into a lot of white people who consider all black people to be the same, and who are willing to say so out loud? I can only speak for my little circles of white people, of course, but literally none of them would do such a thing. Most of them, in fact, are so left/lib that they can barely bring themselves to notice any black misbehavior at all, let alone generalize from any of it, except to blame all black misbehavior on poverty, rednecks and rich white Republicans. Not questioning your experience, just eager to hear more details.

    • Replies: @Truth

    You seriously run into a lot of white people who consider all black people to be the same, and who are willing to say so out loud?.
     


    Most of them, in fact, are so left/lib that they can barely bring themselves to notice any black misbehavior at all
     
    Do we see a contradiction here?
  87. @Ed
    That's how the U.S. was before the 1960s but post war affluence led to arrogance. Something had to be done about black civil rights. Instead of the South fighting so hard against integration they should have adopted the strategy the French used in their African colonies, earned citizenship.

    The Civil Rights Movement was lead by a frustrated relatively solid middle class blacks who felt their aspirations were stunted.They could have been easily bought off with select access to certain white schools, neighborhoods or jobs. Instead far more reaching laws were passed that upended the USA.

    It seems to me that affirmative action programs are overwhelmingly targeted at the black middle class and higher. Getting your kid into a better university, or having your company get more government contracts is something very few poor people are worried about.

  88. @syonredux

    Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I’ve been blissfully unaware of?
     
    Seems so.His new book is selling really well.And the Great and the Good are singing his praises.

    It’ll be right up there with Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” and Picketty’s “Capital in the 21st Century” on the “most-bought and least read” lists.

    What value is it to one of the white Great & Good to not praise him? Better to be an iconoclastic woman in 1690s Salem.

  89. @Luke Lea
    "Perhaps the Talented Tenth is unique among elites in that their legacy has become dysfunction, . . ."


    The problem is that the Talented Tenth are barely above average by European standards (as are Europeans by Ashkenazi standards). Each of these people need a world of their own, a place where they can exercise their talents to the maximum, lead fulfilling lives. Think of the white half-backs who don't get to run.

    I realize I am getting into dangerous territory here, but the logic leads me on.

    The problem is that the Talented Tenth are barely above average by European standards (as are Europeans by Ashkenazi standards).

    The Hasbara brigade strikes again…

  90. @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    Compare the number of white folks defending Dylann Roof’s actions to the number of black folks defending Michael Brown’s. That’s your real bottom line.

    • Replies: @MQ
    Come on -- it's ridiculous to compare Dylann Roof, a mass murderer of innocent people (in church! While they were praying!) to a garden-variety thug like Michael Brown who stole some cigars and punched a cop.
    , @Truth
    Re-quote; Post #92.
  91. @Truth
    "He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild."

    Or nervous, but thanks for the translation.

    “He basically just said that he is an inarticulate manchild.”

    Or nervous, but thanks for the translation.

    Well, nervous about being an inarticulate manchild….

  92. SFG says:
    @Paleo Retiree
    Thanks for the nice and kind words. My own guess would be that TNC has been playing the game rather less consciously than some might imagine -- that he's the beneficiary of others who are playing the game more shrewdly, or at least deliberately, than he is. (FWIW, and not that it matters: I'm less unworldly than I sometimes make myself out to be. Playing Columbo is one of my favorite pasttimes. And I'm long past feeling bitter. Blogging was very fulfilling.)

    You might be right about that. He doesn’t seem that Machiavellian–probably just in the right place at the right time.

    (FWIW: I wonder if people into the arts tend to say things that make a better story, as opposed to people interested in science, who are concerned with being precisely correct? It would make an awful lot of sense.)

  93. @Ed
    Seems like this is an area where the far left & far right can come together and compromise. Reduce legal immigration by eliminating or severely reducing family & chain migration, curtailing H1bs & guest worker programs, allowing for a path to legalization for existing illegals and making any future illegal migration a criminal offense.

    no, we’ve seen amnesty for enforcement 7 times now, we probably won’t be fooled an eighth time in a row.

  94. @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    The problem with your analysis is that it’s the black middle class that is reinforcing the fact that the Michael Browns can be their sons, no one else.

    Obama saying that if he had sons they’d be like Trayvon was the epitome of their mindset.

    • Replies: @Truth
    Re-quote...uh...nevermind.
  95. @Area Man

    Scholars have found modern day bards in the Balkans who sing long poems, and the works they sing contain the same pattern of repetitious phrases to facilitate recall.
     
    This is correct, but epithets serve another function as well. While one would have to know Ancient Greek to fully appreciate it, The Iliad and The Odyssey were both composed to fit a certain meter. Using epithets preserves the meter.

    Good point.

    I should have added to my original post to make my point clearer why it is absurd to cite Homer as justification for TNC’s literary devices. The repetition in Homer not only served as a mnemonic device to aid recall of a long poem originally sung or recited orally but, as you correctly point out, to help fill a line to satisfy the meter. TNC’s essays are written, not oral, and they are written in prose, not poetry, so it is ridiculous to borrow a literary device which made great sense to Homer creating great works of literature nearly 3000 years ago. The epic form of literature was quite common in the early days of ancient Greece (and extending into the early days of the Roman Empire, i.e., The Aeneid) but not so much today, when Twitter seems to have replaced it in popularity.

  96. @syonredux

    The right candidate could successfully merge a conservative/ anti-immigration blacks alliance. Maybe not to win the black vote, but a significant chunk could be taken from a white dem. Or not be enthused enough to turn out.

    South Africa, for instance, has passed tougher immigration laws due mostly to threatened black native workers.
     
    The potential is there.Barbara Jordan was quite keen on reducing immigration:

    Barbara Charline Jordan (February 21, 1936 – January 17, 1996) was an American politician and a leader of the Civil Rights movement. A Democrat, she was the first African American elected to the Texas Senate after Reconstruction, the first southern black female elected to the United States House of Representatives, and the first African-American woman to deliver the keynote address at a Democratic National Convention. [.....]


    In 1994 and until her death in 1996, Jordan chaired the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, which advocated increased restriction of immigration, called for all U.S. residents to carry a national identity card and increased penalties on employers that violated U.S. immigration regulations.[9][10] Then-President Clinton endorsed the Jordan Commission's proposals.[11] While she was Chair of the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform she argued that "it is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest.”
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan


    The Ghost of Barbara Jordan
    Texas's first black congresswoman provided a voice missing from today's immigration debate.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-ghost-of-barbara-jordan/

    In 1995, Former Texas Congresswoman Barbara Jordan chaired the Congressionally mandated (Immigration Act of 1990) U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform. The Commission made the most thorough examination of the impact of U.S. immigration policies of any federal commission to date. The final recommendations were presented to Congress and President Clinton in 1997 (more than six years after the commission was formed).

    Their recommendations to create a "credible, coherent immigrant and immigration policy" and a "credible, efficient naturalization process" included the following:

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.
    a focus on the admission of highly-skilled individuals to support the national interest by bringing to the U.S. individuals whose skills would benefit our society. Recommended the elimination of the admission of unskilled workers and elimination of the diversity visa lottery;
    immigration admissions level of 550,000 per year, to be divided as follows:
    Nuclear family immigration 400,000;
    Skill-based immigration 100,000;
    Refugee resettlement 50,000.
    Stressed deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave.

     

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/illegal-immigration/us-commission-immigration-reform-barbara-jordan-commission.html

    a scale back of family chain-migration by implementing a prioritization of family relationships to determine who will be admitted through family-based immigration. Spouses and minor children of US citizens would continue to be admitted as first priority;
    elimination of other family-based admission categories, including:
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens;
    Adult, unmarried sons and daughters of legal permanent residents; and
    Siblings of U.S. citizens.

    I have been pulling my hair at this policy of allowing endless chain migration. Every person who gets a pathway to citizenship results in a pathway to citizenship to that person’s entire village!

    Each unmarried or married son or daughter will bring his/her partner, each partner will bring his/her brother and sister, who will bring their partner, who will bring their sibling and so and so on.

    Each unmarried adult son and daughter will bring that qualified for a green card will eventually marry and bring his/her boyfriend/girlfriend, who will bring his/her children and parents. The parents bring the other children and so and so.

  97. @Truth
    "I get the sense that there is a lot of psychic stress experienced by the Talented Tenth, i.e. bourgeois middle-class blacks like Ta-Nahesi Coates. They basically live among white people according to white norms, but this creates in them a need to “keep it real” by defending and excusing the dysfunction of underclass blacks."

    This is a large, (and I mean truly overwhelming) simplification at best.

    The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is "you are all the same." Now, white people want "you are all the same" when it benefits them, and "c'mon man you better than that!" When it benefits them.

    Case in point, we basically can not go through one post without some clown here going, "yeah I trusted those middle class blacks until that time Quantavious Watts stole my lunch in the 6th grade...NEVER AGAIN!"

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as "a fuck-up and a bad guy", while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is "YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that's all you people do" but concurrently, "WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can't you see HE'S A FUCKUP?"

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don't get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn't understand why his hitters couldn't "just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner." Now I get it.

    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don’t get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn’t understand why his hitters couldn’t “just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner.” Now I get it.

    If there needs any proof that Black American mind contains too much self esteem and too much concern about ‘being dissed’, this is it.

    I seem to remember that one explanation for the IQ difference was how Black Americans have low Self Esteem and that was shown by their test scores. Someone in the HBD community debunked that by showing studies that Black Americans have _higher_ SE than average. I may be missing the details of the debunking but Truth here has made it plain.

    Black Americans have too much self esteem and too little self control. When those two combine with a near constant barrage of seeing their people act like fools and a worry that anyone they speak to may hold them in low standing, the prospect for violence goes up.

    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    In contrast white liberals have too little self-esteem - hence they do well in school but dislike themselves and project their self-loathing onto other whites.
  98. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    "The reason so many middle class blacks go out of their way to defend the behavior of underclass blacks, is because the party line in this country since the beginning is “you are all the same.” Now, white people want “you are all the same” when it benefits them, and “c’mon man you better than that!” When it benefits them."

    Truth -- I think the point here is more subtle than 'middle class blacks should condemn underclass blacks'. It is that middle class blacks are in a pretty stressful position, since as you point out criticism of underclass blacks violates a legitimate desire for racial solidarity and participates in a project that can end up siding with whites who are at least influenced by racist beliefs. On the other hand standing with underclass blacks is tough because middle class blacks do at least privately understand that a lot of underclass behaviors are destructive and counterproductive and harmful to those who engage in them as well as the broader black community. So you get this oscillation back and forth. Nation of Islam worked well for some because it combined maximal condemnation of the white devil with maximum pressure for a conservative lifestyle. But that kind of separatism is no longer really feasible.

    This all showed up very intensely in the Ferguson thing. The real reason to condemn people like Michael Brown is because you want to deliver the lesson to your kids that you shouldn't knock over convenience stores and then attack police officers. It's rather dangerous for a community to make a hero out of someone like that. On the other hand, being honest about his self-destructive behavior would have robbed all the force out of a campaign against police violence that may yet result in some positive effect.

    Much of the so-called black middle class are only middle class because of affirmative action, fat government jobs, and social services related enterprises.

    It is not a genuine middle class that you find in other communities.

    Take away the boosters that make the black middle class what it is, and more than half of the black middle class will be ghetto class.

  99. @Brutusale
    Compare the number of white folks defending Dylann Roof's actions to the number of black folks defending Michael Brown's. That's your real bottom line.

    Come on — it’s ridiculous to compare Dylann Roof, a mass murderer of innocent people (in church! While they were praying!) to a garden-variety thug like Michael Brown who stole some cigars and punched a cop.

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Fine. Replace Saint Michael with Omar Thornton if it makes you feel better. And be careful of those code words.

    I just look askance at the main text of the Thornton shootings in the black community, like so many involving by blacks, wasn't about the shootings themselves but the alleged racism that triggered them. The vast majority of whites, however, look at the Dylann Roofs of the world as rabid dogs that need to be put down.

    Compare St. Michael's shooting with that of Dillon Taylor. Both were unarmed yoofs refusing to follow police orders, both got shot and died, Taylor by an Hispanic cop. Why didn't the white community burn down Salt Lake City over the Taylor killing?
  100. @Ozymandias
    "Seriously do you really get a lot of white people comparing you to the likes of Michael Brown? Or even just a few?"

    A more illuminating illustration: What percentage of blacks will defend a violent bullying thug or a heroin dealer? The majority, it would seem. Now what percentage of Whites will defend Dylann Roof? Only the extremist fringe.

    Please ATTEMPT to re-read my original post. You don’t have to succeed, but please make the attempt.

  101. @Paleo Retiree
    You seriously run into a lot of white people who consider all black people to be the same, and who are willing to say so out loud? I can only speak for my little circles of white people, of course, but literally none of them would do such a thing. Most of them, in fact, are so left/lib that they can barely bring themselves to notice any black misbehavior at all, let alone generalize from any of it, except to blame all black misbehavior on poverty, rednecks and rich white Republicans. Not questioning your experience, just eager to hear more details.

    You seriously run into a lot of white people who consider all black people to be the same, and who are willing to say so out loud?.

    Most of them, in fact, are so left/lib that they can barely bring themselves to notice any black misbehavior at all

    Do we see a contradiction here?

  102. @Brutusale
    Compare the number of white folks defending Dylann Roof's actions to the number of black folks defending Michael Brown's. That's your real bottom line.

    Re-quote; Post #92.

  103. @Ed
    The problem with your analysis is that it's the black middle class that is reinforcing the fact that the Michael Browns can be their sons, no one else.

    Obama saying that if he had sons they'd be like Trayvon was the epitome of their mindset.

    Re-quote…uh…nevermind.

  104. @syonredux

    In a saner world, the Talented Tenth would have an aristocratic attitude of protective paternalism toward black proles, in the spirit of Booker Washington.
     
    If you read TNC's oeuvre (not a task recommended for the weak-stomached), you'll notice his rather conflicted relationship with Booker T. He does admire him for his genuine achievements, of course, but TNC is fundamentally opposed to Washington's philosophy of Black self-improvement.Indeed, at bottom, I suspect that TNC views Washington as something of a race-traitor, though I doubt that he would ever be so blunt about a fellow Black who isn't named Bill Cosby:

    People wondering why the GOP can't get a foothold in the black community, need to not just think about Goldwater and Nixon. They should think about Du Bois telling black men to go fight in The Great War, and then having those veterans come home to the Red Summer of 1919. They should think about the pogroms that greeted Booker T's compromise. There's a lot of hurt out there. A lot of ancient hurt. A lot of it, even in these times, quite deep.
     
    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2009/03/the-tragedy-and-betrayal-of-booker-t-washington/7092/

    And yet Republicans still had a majority of the black vote in the 1920s. Dems didn’t win over blacks until FDR started given everyone free stuff in the 1930s – and that was back when the Dem coalition included southern segregationists and Klansmen.

  105. White self-loathing by “comedian” Taylor Ketchum
    Things your slightly racist uncle says on Facebook

    • Replies: @Truth
    Hey, that's guy's good.
  106. @Paleo Retiree
    Does anybody know how TNC got his break? Who picked him out of obscurity and started putting his thoughts and his words out there in the mainstream? How did he go from being a nobody to being a featured somebody? Wikipedia doesn't tell me, and I'm reluctant to disappear down the rabbit hole of TNC info online, so I'm hoping someone knows and can tell me.

    And don't think -- not even FOR A SECOND -- that my question is motivated by anything like bitterness over the fact that, even though I'm a clearer writer than TNC and a smarter and more original culture-observer, during my decades in the media biz no one ever plucked me out of obscurity, threw money at me, and put me out there as a featured thinker. Nope, doesn't bother me A BIT that TNC is making a living for himself (and no doubt enjoying the spotlight) complaining about how rough it is for him to be black when he's had a very nice gig fall in his lap at a still-young age while dozens if not hundreds of equally good (actually better, IMHO) writers have never had anything like his luck ...

    Why on earth does TNC think he has had it so hard when, as a writer, he has basically won the lottery? Forget me -- how about Steve Sailer? As a writer, who's had it (and continues to have it) rougher: TNC, or Steve?

    ABN's comment (the one that Steve copies in the body of his posting) is really good.

    All of you are forgetting about the power of mythology.

    The Great Black Hope.

  107. @Ed
    I probably shouldn't be questioning the content on this blog too much, and I realize that both Steve and his readers have their obsessions, but that said what makes this writer so interesting to be worth all these posts? I had heard of him, but nothing in the subjects he writes about or the excerpts of his work I've seen made me want to go out and read him, and apparently I haven't missed anything. Is this guy having some major influence on public policy that I've been blissfully unaware of?
  108. @Anonymous
    White self-loathing by "comedian" Taylor Ketchum
    Things your slightly racist uncle says on Facebook

    Hey, that’s guy’s good.

  109. @Truth
    No, you miss the point. A bit of malfeasance from Michael Brown, and white people look at you and say; "why do your people always act like that."

    A bit from Dylann Roof and they do not say, "why do my people act like that", they say "what a creep."

    White people afford themselves the PRIVILEGE of disassociating with white idiots, black people are not given the same right.

    Per capita violent crime rates mean nothing to you? Or are they just compiled by racist whites in the fbi and doj

    8x as many murders. What’s wrong with you people?

    • Disagree: iffen
  110. @Reg Cæsar

    Almost Everybody Is Conservative About What They Care About Most
     
    This is a very different claim from Robert Conquest's that people are most conservative about what they know best.

    Other than parenting one's progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?

    Other than parenting one’s progeny, and property values, are there examples of people acting this way?

    Sure, college faculty. They urge open borders on us, while for themselves reserving the right to hand-pick just the right “community” of students and even advertising that as a feature.

  111. @Sailer has an interesting life


    The bottom line is quite simple: A middle-class white man is allowed to Dylann Roof as “a fuck-up and a bad guy”, while a middle-class black man is constantly told that Michael Brown is “YET ANOTHER one of you fucking up, that’s all you people do” but concurrently, “WHY ARE YOU TAKING HIS SIDE, can’t you see HE’S A FUCKUP?”

    This seems fairly obvious to me, but then I tend to be surprised as to how other people don’t get it. I remember once reading a story on Ted Williams managing the Washington Senators, as a child, and how he was not very good at it, because he couldn’t understand why his hitters couldn’t “just lay off pitches a half inch off the corner.” Now I get it.
     
    If there needs any proof that Black American mind contains too much self esteem and too much concern about 'being dissed', this is it.

    I seem to remember that one explanation for the IQ difference was how Black Americans have low Self Esteem and that was shown by their test scores. Someone in the HBD community debunked that by showing studies that Black Americans have _higher_ SE than average. I may be missing the details of the debunking but Truth here has made it plain.

    Black Americans have too much self esteem and too little self control. When those two combine with a near constant barrage of seeing their people act like fools and a worry that anyone they speak to may hold them in low standing, the prospect for violence goes up.

    In contrast white liberals have too little self-esteem – hence they do well in school but dislike themselves and project their self-loathing onto other whites.

    • Replies: @Sailer has an interesting life
    I was initially going to disagree with you but hesitated. My thoughts came first towards the upper-class jet set who engage in pretensions and put on airs. After some thought I have to agree with you.

    The median level of SE among IT/CS/Math degreed whites tend to be low, outside their comfort zone. At least compared to Black Americans.
  112. @unpc downunder
    In contrast white liberals have too little self-esteem - hence they do well in school but dislike themselves and project their self-loathing onto other whites.

    I was initially going to disagree with you but hesitated. My thoughts came first towards the upper-class jet set who engage in pretensions and put on airs. After some thought I have to agree with you.

    The median level of SE among IT/CS/Math degreed whites tend to be low, outside their comfort zone. At least compared to Black Americans.

  113. @MQ
    Come on -- it's ridiculous to compare Dylann Roof, a mass murderer of innocent people (in church! While they were praying!) to a garden-variety thug like Michael Brown who stole some cigars and punched a cop.

    Fine. Replace Saint Michael with Omar Thornton if it makes you feel better. And be careful of those code words.

    I just look askance at the main text of the Thornton shootings in the black community, like so many involving by blacks, wasn’t about the shootings themselves but the alleged racism that triggered them. The vast majority of whites, however, look at the Dylann Roofs of the world as rabid dogs that need to be put down.

    Compare St. Michael’s shooting with that of Dillon Taylor. Both were unarmed yoofs refusing to follow police orders, both got shot and died, Taylor by an Hispanic cop. Why didn’t the white community burn down Salt Lake City over the Taylor killing?

  114. @Ed
    David Carr, the recently deceased NYT writer, hired Coates at the DC City paper. He worked there with Jake Tapper & some other media notables today. Then Andrew Sullivan hired him at the National Republic.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/02/king-david/385596/

    Coates never worked at the New Republic, and I don’t think he’s ever met Andrew Sullivan. If I remember correctly, Coates mentioned Sullivan as one of the people who expressed disappointment in their “old friend” Coates, even though they never met him.

    • Replies: @Andrew Jackson
    Sullivan hired Coates at The Atlantic, not the New Republic.
  115. @Anonymous
    Coates never worked at the New Republic, and I don't think he's ever met Andrew Sullivan. If I remember correctly, Coates mentioned Sullivan as one of the people who expressed disappointment in their "old friend" Coates, even though they never met him.

    Sullivan hired Coates at The Atlantic, not the New Republic.

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