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From the New York Times:

N.B.A. Executive’s Hong Kong Tweet Starts Firestorm in China

Daryl Morey, the general manager of the Houston Rockets, posted a tweet supporting protesters in Hong Kong, upsetting the Chinese Basketball Association led by the Hall of Famer Yao Ming.

By Sopan Deb and Marc Stein,Published Oct. 6, 2019

The general manager of the Houston Rockets sought to quell an outcry in China on Sunday night after the support he expressed on Twitter for pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong upset sponsors, media outlets and basketball officials in a country that invests billions in the N.B.A.

The initial and quickly deleted message by the general manager, Daryl Morey, on Friday night to “stand with Hong Kong” put the N.B.A. at odds with its largest and highest-priority international market.

Morey is a high IQ Billy Beane-type moneyball basketball executive, whom Michael Lewis writes about fairly often.

The Houston Rockets are probably the favorite NBA team of mainland Chinese basketball fans because Yao Ming played there.

But he tried to mitigate the damage with two clarifying tweets from Tokyo, where the Rockets are scheduled to play two exhibition games against the Toronto Raptors.

“I did not intend my tweet to cause any offense to Rockets fans and friends of mine in China,” Morey wrote, adding that his view did not represent the Rockets or the N.B.A. “I was merely voicing one thought, based on one interpretation, of one complicated event. I have had a lot of opportunity since that tweet to hear and consider other perspectives.’’

By walking back his comments, Morey and the Rockets have exposed themselves — as well as the league — to a backlash domestically, since the apology runs counter to the N.B.A.’s reputation as a sports league that encourages free speech and commentary on politics and other social issues.

Uh …

Donald Sterling might have something to say about that.

For some 2014 iSteve coverage of the NBA’s deep commitment to free speech, see:

Donald Sterling Wisely Turns to ISteve for His P.R. Tactics

The Love Lament of Donald T. Sterling

Donald Sterling: The Elderly Cuckold’s Grasp for Dignity

Donald Sterling Makes the Same Mistake Twice: Trusting a Woman Who Would Sleep with Him

Slate: “Donald Sterling’s Model Minority”

Strikingly, basketball fans in mainland China are very familiar with the Sterling brouhaha and repeatedly cite it as a precedent for why the NBA should cancel Morey:

 
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  1. All decent people object to the Cultural Appropriation of the Anglo surname “Sterling” by one “Donald Tokowitz”. And to several hundred other such examples.

  2. This is how a globalist society works.

    The biggest gorilla in the room makes the rules. The largest market tells billionaires what to say. How long will it be until everything in the world, “All Under Heaven,” must be approved by China?

    Are we already there?

  3. Morey’s backtrack is pathetic and reveals the man he is, much less the NBA. One cannot undo these moments of truth about character.

    American business leaders so transparently and publicly obeying Chinese whims on allowed free speech inside our own land is something new. It is different in type than quiet self censorship, or campus harassment, or making movie plots that won’t offend the Chinese. This was a very public, very naked exercise in control.

    Trivial, yes, but obvious even to the most oblivious observer.

    I still have hope in the future…every time an event like this happens, more and more Americans realize on a deep fundamental level that our elites are no longer us, and have no love of this land or its people.

    • Replies: @Realist
  4. 216 says: • Website

    China is a serious country

    US is a clown country

    The NBA is an anti-white defamation parade

    • Agree: Charon, Realist
  5. Anon[111] • Disclaimer says:

    Hong Kong separatism is one of the third rails in Chinese politics. The equivalent might be something like racism or white nationalism in the US. It would be like if a Chinese executive in an analogous position to Morey’s publicly professed anti-black racism or promoted white nationalism.

  6. Anon[244] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The biggest gorilla in the room makes the rules. The largest market tells billionaires what to say.

    Not really:

  7. A few years ago an NBA player tweeted,”Free Palestine,” which was retweeted by Rihanna. It was walked back immejitley!

  8. @Anon

    Who gives a rats #$$ what Hong Kong freedom means to the Chinese? I don’t, because I’m American and have free speech in my own land. That should be the proper response of any American with self respect to any Chinese objections.

    It was a tweet, not Morey smuggling guns through the South China Sea.

  9. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,

    “Morey is a high IQ…..basketball executive”

    I wonder who would be a low IQ basketball executive?

  10. Hail says: • Website

    By walking back his comments, Morey and the Rockets have exposed themselves — as well as the league — to a backlash domestically, since the apology runs counter to the N.B.A.’s reputation as a sports league that encourages free speech and commentary on politics and other social issues.

    Sports section ? Opinion section?

    That slick phrasing, “have exposed themselves to backlash” is editorializing. It’s not reporting, it’s opinion with vaguely-plausible-deniability.

    • Replies: @Hail
    , @Hypnotoad666
  11. @Anon

    His father was a goy and his mom Jewish, I just discovered.

    • Replies: @Lugash
  12. Hail says: • Website
    @Hail

    By Sopan Deb and Marc Stein

    Marc Stein

    – ca.1969: Born, Olean, New York [?], to father Reuven Vasile Stein (born Feb. 1940 in Romania; died June 2014). Marc Stein’s father was interned in Romania during the war against the USSR and in 1960 made “an illegal escape [from Romania] by sea to Israel” and was in the US by the “mid-1960s”; at some point circa late 1970s or early 1980s, family apparently moves to Southern California, but maintains close ties to Israel;
    Dec. 1985: Marc Stein’s first byline in a (local) newspaper (Saddleback Valley News, Orange County, California?);
    1991: BA, Cal State Fullerton, Communications-Journalism;
    Feb. 1994: Begins full-time coverage of the NBA in US media, which continues today;
    – [Quoted in a 2013 interview:] “In the summer of roughly 1983, on one of my many trips to Israel as a kid, my Grandma Trisa took me to a wax museum in Tel Aviv that to my knowledge no longer exists but unquestionably changed my life. There was a Shlomo Glickstein statue inside, draped in authentic Gali tennis gear from head to toe, which absolutely mesmerized me. I was 14 years old and, from that moment on, I wanted to be the next Shlomo Glickstein and play Davis Cup for Israel.” “Tel Aviv and Manchester – as America’s biggest City fan – are my two favorite cities in the world.”

    ________________

    Sopan Deb

    – Born March 1988 in Massachusetts to Indian parents;
    – Resident of New York City metro area from 1991; largely raised in the wealthy, 90%-White community of Howell, NJ;
    2010: BA, Boston University, Broadcast Journalism;
    2010 to 2015: Minor media roles and comedy career, then hired by CBS in 2015 for presidential primary campaign season;
    March 2016: Arrested for disrupting a Trump rally in Illinois and resisting arrest, his first and still biggest claim to fame;
    Nov. 30, 2016: Hired by the New York Times. Tagline at NYT bio says he works “at the intersection of politics and culture.” A review of his recent articles shows 9/10ths are on sports, including such gems of highbrow journalism as “Arrest Warrant Issued for Demarcus Cousins” (a basketball player);
    April 21, 2020: Release date for his book, “Missed Translations: Meeting the Immigrant Parents Who Raised Me.” The book blurb includes this: [Sopan Deb’s parents] separately immigrated to North America in the 1960s and 1970s. They were brought together in a volatile and ultimately doomed arranged marriage and raised a family in suburban New Jersey before his father returned to India alone.”

  13. Charon says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I’m American and have free speech in my own land

    And what’s more, a lively imagination.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • LOL: Abe
    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  14. The Houston Rockets are probably the favorite NBA team of mainland Chinese basketball fans because Yao Ming played there.

    And of the ruling party, because Dean Corll played there.

    The Candy Man Who Wasn’t So Sweet After All

    The Story Of “Candy Man” Dean Corll — Once America’s Deadliest Serial Killer

    https://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/corll-dean.htm

    Speaking of great athletic specimens:

    Michael Moore says ‘there is one person that would crush Trump’:

    Until recently, that would have been Moore himself, pushing 300 pounds.


    I’m shocked that AOL even exists anymore. Is Steve keeping it alive with his e-mail address?

    Here’s another AOL story about Disneymerica:

    Is Bob Iger going to run for president? One comment about Spider-Man on ‘Jimmy Kimmel Live’ was telling

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @Tony
  15. @Dan Hayes

    Remember Billy King, who gave away Nets’ lottery picks as if they were self-regenerating assets? That was a low-IQ basketball executive.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  16. Lugash says:
    @Father O'Hara

    And more importantly, his parents were in the pedosadist-prostitution cult Children of God. Weird, as was Rose McGowan.

    “I did not intend my tweet to cause any offense to Rockets fans and friends of mine in China,” Morey wrote, adding that his view did not represent the Rockets or the N.B.A. “I was merely voicing one thought, based on one interpretation, of one complicated event. I have had a lot of opportunity since that tweet to hear and consider other perspectives.’’

    He’s got a strange new respect for the Chicoms after talking with his boss.

    Years ago Whorefinder(pbuh) commented what a nightmare Twitter was for teams and leagues as dimwit players could incinerate their image in an instant. Turns out that the same thing can happen to high IQ sports execs as well.

    • Replies: @Hail
  17. istevefan says:

    The GM retweeted this anti-Trump tweet. Funny he isn’t walking this back.

    When the only American citizen President Trump singles out for China’s investigation is his political opponent in the midst of the Democratic nomination process, it strains credulity to suggest that it is anything other than politically motivated.— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) October 4, 2019

    If our side ever decided to use our economic clout, we might actually win.

    • Replies: @Charon
  18. Charon says:
    @istevefan

    Not sure what you mean by “our side” but as Romney demonstrates, the Republicans remain as violently opposed to us as they were in 2016.

  19. istevefan says:

    Here’s a good critique on this matter.

    Remember, the NBA pulled its all star game from Charlotte over a transgender bathroom dispute, which was all manufactured outrage, and just bent the knee to China over actual human rights abuses. https://t.co/qz68o0sbfK— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) October 7, 2019

    • Agree: Charon, Redneck farmer
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  20. Hail says: • Website
    @Lugash

    His father was a goy and his mom Jewish, I just discovered.

    And more importantly, his parents were in the pedosadist-prostitution cult Children of God. Weird, as was Rose McGowan.

    You two are talking about Joaquin Phoenix, I assume. The name was not used in this thread but that all describes him.

    Phoenix’s mother is of post[?]-Ellis Island Ostjude ancestry (her father was born in 1910 in Russia; the mother herself was born in Dec. 1944 in New York City).

    Phoenix’s parents were members of a cult from about 1969 to 1978. They left when Joaqium was three or four and the oldest sibling was eight. Phoenix in his 40s retains many of the usual left-wing beliefs and continues to identify as Jewish.

    As commenter Alden wrote:

    So that’s how the parents got the [Phoenix] kids jobs as actors soon after leaving the cult in S America. Always wondered how that happened. Now I know.

    It does seem the best movie through which to understand much about today’s USA, certainly about Hollywood and how it works, is and remains They Live.

  21. @Gary in Gramercy

    As a Nets fan, I remember him all too well. The NBA has a rule called the Ted Stepien rule which says you can’t trade away your first-round pick in consecutive years. The Nets traded away their 2014, 16, and 18 picks. However, to get around the rule, they also traded the right to swap their first-round pick in 2015 and 2017. This is almost as bad, because since the Nets were bad, they ended up with a worse pick than they deserved in both years. Then, this past year, they traded their first round pick AFTER the draft, going against the spirit of the rule again.

    The last Net first-round pick who was actually drafted by the team in its proper position and played for them was Mason Plumlee in 2013 from Duke, who despite his name is white.

  22. @Reg Cæsar

    Until recently, that would have been Moore himself, pushing 300 pounds.

    From which side?

  23. syonredux says:
    @Anon

    I don’t think that the Chinese are bothered by Joker

    Speaking of movies that won't bother the Chinese, here's the trailer for the new, multi-racial David Copperfield

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4GfEi_GyyU

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @Reg Cæsar
  24. J.Ross says:

    Let them realize that appeasing China does not mean doing whatever you want but then bumbling through some kind of apology the same way Chinese people do, by losing everything they have.

  25. @Anon

    Hong Kong separatism is one of the third rails in Chinese politics.

    That’d be Formosa, aka Taiwan. Nobody thinks Hong Kong would ever separate. They just want to keep living under old-fashioned law-and-order and due process that the British had provided them with. Unfortunately, from my observations, they seemed to have tossed off all things English after the hand-off in the summer of ’97. They may not have understood that you have to be a certain kind of people to keep up these institutions.

    Therefore, I say: Screw all of them, the Hong Kongese, the Chinese Gov’t, AND the NBA. I hope all parties in the imbroglio lose faces and asses.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  26. @Anon

    Hong Kong separatism is one of the third rails in Chinese politics.

    If you think talk of Hong Kong separatism bothers the Chinese, try talking to them about Taiwan independence.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @d dan
  27. Dan Hayes says:
    @Pincher Martin

    Pincher Martin:

    I realized how serious Taiwan independence is when a very highly educated Chinese-American referred to it as “a renegade province”.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  28. Does this mean that Basketball-Americans will now kneel at the sight of a Chinese flag?

    I’m pretty certain the Chinese will think that kneeling before a flag means something other than what Colin Kawhatsisname thinks it means.

  29. Yet another reason to ignore basketball.

    • Agree: fish
    • Replies: @Realist
  30. Putting aside (anti)Jewish angle, the Sterling saga is interesting because it illustrates utter humiliation of geriatric horndoggery.

    Why these old farts cannot retain even a semblance of dignity? You know- old age, wisdom, elders etc…

    Sigh.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  31. Realist says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    American business leaders so transparently and publicly obeying Chinese whims on allowed free speech inside our own land is something new. It is different in type than quiet self censorship, or campus harassment, or making movie plots that won’t offend the Chinese. This was a very public, very naked exercise in control.

    Like the US government does to all other countries.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  32. Realist says:

    Morey is a high IQ Billy Beane-type moneyball basketball executive, whom Michael Lewis writes about fairly often.

    In relation to other basketball executives…perhaps.

  33. Realist says:
    @Redneck farmer

    Yet another reason to ignore basketball.

    I have never needed another reason…it’s a stupid sport…even in relation to other sports

  34. Hhsiii says:
    @Anon

    Bradley Cooper is Irish on his father’s side and Italian on his mother’s side.

  35. @Buzz Mohawk

    Hollywood and Google already bow down to China and not the US government, for sure, so it looks like it.

    • Replies: @Realist
  36. Realist says:
    @william munny

    Hollywood and Google already bow down to China and not the US government,…

    They bow down to the real US government…the Deep State.

  37. @Bardon Kaldian

    Shakespeare said it best:

    And that which should accompany old age,
    As honour, love, obedience, troops of friends,
    I must not look to have; but, since I’ve got “fuck you” money,
    I can get some gold-digger to blow me when
    She’s not blowing my tame sportsbasketers.

    I know it’s trite to say that the absurdly wealthy are not happy, but if you look at their faces, they all look like they are recalling that time they caught the pool guy fucking their second ex-wife .

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Alden
    , @Anonymous
  38. Anonymous[143] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    Daryl Morey is your typical Sloan School of Management, anti-Trump globalist. He worked for The Parthenon Group. Please.

    Look at a map. Hong King is part of China. On this HK issue I side with PRC over (((globalists))) and the CIA/U.S. DoS. These protests are directed from Foggy Bottom and Langley. If you think Hong Kong is about freedom and democracy you’ll probably also believe the CIA whistleblower and Deep State palace coup is also about freedom and democracy.

    Same with all the propaganda about China’s mistreatment of the Uyghur Mohammedans. It’s a globalist and CIA/DoS operation to cause problems for China.

    • Replies: @Polynikes
    , @S. Anonyia
  39. @Buzz Mohawk

    Are any Chinese players in the Chinese NBA or whatever it’s called wearing gold teeth yet?

  40. Abe says:

    Strikingly, basketball fans in mainland China are very familiar with the Sterling brouhaha and repeatedly cite it as a precedent for why the NBA should cancel Morey

    Why striking? Chinese are high-IQ, on par or maybe even a teeny bit smarter than the highest-IQ European ethnic group (le Deutsch).

    This honestly illustrates the perils of focusing so much on NAM’s- your intellectual acuity is so dulled by years of dealing with an emotional, irrational, childish, and self-serving interlocutor that you are frankly a bit stunned when you are suddenly faced with an adversary that can demonstrate even basic recall of facts and logic.

    Which is why I increasingly leaven any attention I give to the hubbub of daily news and politics with more nourishing bites of history and philosophy.

    And BTW, how is Morey not interfering in Chinese “elections”?

  41. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    I know it’s trite to say that the absurdly wealthy are not happy, but if you look at their faces, they all look like they are recalling that time they caught the pool guy fucking their second ex-wife .

    Jesus said Satan is the father of the Jews (John 8:39-47) 🤜🏼 💥

    Jesus said the rich are not getting into Heaven (Mark 10:25) 🤜🏼 💥

  42. @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I’m American and have free speech in my own land.

    Sure you do, XYZ.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  43. The hurt feelings business goes way back.

  44. If the Germans are so IQ, how do you explain things like the Energiewende?

    Or the completely Baroque work of the engineering arts that comprise the parking brake on a BMW?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  45. @Dan Hayes

    Take off the -American portion of Chinese-American in that description then.

    • LOL: Dan Hayes
  46. @Realist

    So what? I don’t blame the Chinese for trying to exert control, but rather weak American elites for obeying.

    • Replies: @Realist
  47. Barnard says:
    @Dan Hayes

    The previously mentioned Donald Sterling let former NBA player Elgin Baylor lead the Clippers through years of futility before finally pushing him out as team GM. Baylor responded by filing and age and racial discrimination suit against Sterling which was dismissed by the courts. He would be a good example.

  48. @Charon

    Oh noes! I may speak up and — gasp! — potentially lose my job. Free speech is dead!

    • Replies: @Charon
  49. Political figures should keep their mouths shut regarding sports, and sports figures should keep their mouths shut about politics. Because all of their opinions and $5 might get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, if you were willing to support that company. Fair enough?

  50. Alden says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Headline in drudge this AM

    Shortage of private jet pilots problem for super rich.

    • Replies: @Neuday
  51. This microagression against 1.4 billion people will not be taken lightly!

  52. @Anon

    With movie scores dominated by Jewish composers since the days of Max Steiner and Eric Wolfie Korngold, how the heck did Iceland’s Hildur Gudnadottir get the music gig?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildur_Gu%C3%B0nad%C3%B3ttir

  53. Barnard says:

    Clay Travis addressed the reason for the NBA’s reaction in his mailbag Friday before the story even happened. The NBA’s TV revenue in North America is on the brink on going down the drain and they desperately need Chinese fans keep revenue at its current level. It is the same reason that “Can the NBA find a star in India” article was written in the NY Times magazine last week. They have gotten rich off cable TV bundling and know interest is waning in the U.S. and are looking for growth markets to replace revenue they are losing here.

    What they appear to not understand is that these fans are not interchangeable. If they allow the traditional market to become too diminished eventually the top players will start migrating to leagues in other countries. They don’t have a long term solution for this problem.

    https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/all-that-and-a-bag-of-mail-85/

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  54. Alfa158 says:

    Does anyone know how China is “investing billions in the NBA” ?
    Are they buying NBA teams? Paying the NBA billions for the rights to televise NBA games in China? Are the writers considering the manufacture of billions of dollars worth of NBA fan merchandise in China an “investment” ?

    • Replies: @Bumpkin
    , @Barnard
    , @Polynikes
  55. @Buzz Mohawk

    “Are we alread

    Well, if Ramblin’ Amblin’ Joe Biden and son etal. have their way we sure WILL be!

  56. @Dan Hayes

    Magic Johnson. Former executive anyway

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  57. Bumpkin says:
    @Alfa158

    It’s in the linked article:

    in July the league announced a five-year extension of a partnership with Tencent Holdings, a Chinese tech conglomerate, to stream games and other league services in China. This deal is reported to be around $1.5 billion — although Tencent responded to the controversy Sunday by announcing that it would not broadcast Rockets games.

    They also mention that the Brooklyn Nets were recently bought by a Chinese tech founder, who got involved in this issue too. The NBA has high hopes to expand in China and, as Steve recently noted, India, as it is the one popular US sport that does fairly well in both countries, mirroring its rise to second in the US, over baseball, still behind the NFL, though NBA stars get paid way more.

  58. Blodgie says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Rosas, the chief dude of the Timberwolves comes across as low IQ

    He’s running a “Hispanic” con that probably helped him get the job despite the fact that he is European

    Complete empty suit

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  59. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Btw, that last post of mine was meant to be humorous. If Jesus wasn’t kidding I’m in trouble.

    http://www.globalrichlist.com/

  60. @Hail

    That slick phrasing, “have exposed themselves to backlash” is editorializing. It’s not reporting, it’s opinion with vaguely-plausible-deniability.

    Not to mention the assertion pulled out of thin air that the NBA has a “reputation as a sports league that encourages free speech.” That only makes sense if “free speech” is deemed to be a synonym for “PC virtue signalling.” As usual, the New York Times doesn’t understand the meaning of words.

  61. Alfa158 says:
    @Inquiring Mind

    I had to disassemble parts of my BMW interior to install an aftermarket Apple CarPlay system. I was surprised that pieces like the center console and armrest assembly, that would normally be made from assemblies of sheet metal and plastic held together by rivets and self tapping sheet metal screws, were assembled around elaborate aluminum forgings with lightening openings and stiffening ribs, held together by high grade fine thread torx head bolts. No wonder the Germans struggled to produce enough panzers.

  62. Polynikes says:
    @Anonymous

    Exactly. He’s a dope that looks smart because of the company he keeps.

  63. @The Alarmist

    You sound alarmed.

    Are you afraid of being deprived of property, jailed, tortured, killed, or exiled because of your views?

    Or are you afraid of job loss, career damage, or social ostracization? Because if it’s the latter, man up. Seriously. No one said free speech was easy, and historically, we have it very good, thanks to the true sacrifices past of Americans.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  64. @syonredux

    Speaking of movies that won’t bother the Chinese, here’s the trailer for the new, multi-racial David Copperfield…

    David Coppertone?

  65. @Anonymous

    The fact that the media breathlessly covers the Hong Kong protests but ignored the Yellow Jackets and now ignores the massive protests in Iraq should tell you it is not organic in nature. More CIA & NGO bullshit.

  66. @Anon

    Jesus said the rich are not getting into Heaven (Mark 10:25)

    By first-century Judæan standards, that means everybody born in the West in the past 100 years. Be careful what you wish for.

  67. Barnard says:
    @Alfa158

    Tencent pays $1.5 billion for broadcast rights in China. They claim they had 21 million viewers for Game 6 of the NBA Finals this season. The American audience for Game 6 was 18.6 million viewers. Live viewing would have taken place on a Friday morning in China.

    http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/nba-tencent-china-live-streaming-social-video-partnership-extension

  68. Neuday says:
    @Alden

    Shortage of private jet pilots problem for super rich.

    Might I suggest recruiting young Muslim men?

    • LOL: Alden
  69. Anonymous[190] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Rarely have truer words been spoken.

    I’m a closet Ferraristi, but only for the ones made when Enzo was in charge. I grew up down the street from this peckerish neighbor who had a 365 Daytona in his garage. He thought he had the biggest dick in the subdivision.

    He’d made a fortune in the air conditioning business by some combination of luck and guile. Every house in the subdivision had one of his units. They were of marginal quality and were under specified to boot. Ours took a shit one August and my dad soon found out that of all the local places that advertised widely only two were willing to come out to our particular subdivision. All the others would make transparent excuses for turning the job down.

    Biggus Dickus Daytonus owned both those companies. Coincidence? My dad didn’t think so. He called some family members on my mother’s side and got them to come out and do it, using a different brand and substantially updating capacity. Daytonus got wind of it and the county people were out snooping around, but since our family people covered their tracks and we “knew nothing” they couldn’t prove shit and went away. (You had to have a certain license, but they had to prove we had a new unit installed, and we took off the nameplates and painted the unit to match the house. New unit? Naw, just new paint.)

    Moving ahead a quarter century, Daytonus had a new trophy wife and the same car. Apparently he caught the young and buff trophy wife getting doggystyled across the back of it by his exotic car mechanic. He filed for divorce and even though she was the one cheating, he wound up keeping the cars (he also had a couple other high dollar ones) and she got pretty much everything else.

    He’s in Alzheimer’s care now, so I quit sending him Christmas cards that subtly twisted the knife.

  70. Polynikes says:
    @Alfa158

    Mostly the latter although the Nets majority owner is Chinese.

    More about the nba wanting to sell product there.

  71. @Buzz Mohawk

    There are over 2 billion Christians in the world. There are almost 2 billion Muslims in the world. Yet Hollywood puts out Holocaust, LGBT, black, etc., movies that cater to tiny minorities rather than cater to the sensibilities of the giant market of billions of Christians and Muslims out there.

    The difference is that Christians and Muslims generally are not competently organized to fight the culture war in the film and pop culture domains, whereas the Chinese state is organized to fight and defend itself in the culture war.

    There was a time when Christians were organized and were able to fight and defend themselves in the culture war. The American Catholic Church and community was able to implement the Hays Code and defend American Catholics and Christians from Hollywood’s culture war. The Vatican also defended Catholics worldwide with its instruction, guidance, and banning of cultural products harmful to Catholics. But both the American Catholic communities and Vatican have declined in its strength and ability to wage the culture war.

  72. keypusher says:

    Steve, I don’t know if this is covered in one of your links, but there was some fallout from the Sterling matter that sheds further light on the NBA’s commitment to freedom of expression.

    In 2012, then-hawks GM Danny Ferry read aloud verbatim an “offensive and racist” comment written in a scouting report instead of editing out the remark. It’s not very easy to find what he said, but apparently it concerned Luol Deng (Sudanese player via Duke) and Ferry was on a conference call reading some notes and somewhere along the line he read “and he’s got some African in him, will sometimes slack up in effort…” or something to that general effect.

    In the wake of the incident [to wit, Ferry’s failure to censor a scouting report on the fly], it was decided that there would be an internal investigation conducted by counsel. The law firm of Alston and Bird conducted 19 interviews and examined 24,000(!) documents. (Be nice to know their billables.)

    During that search, they found an email by Bruce Levenson, the Hawks owner. Levenson’s email was sent in 2012 to Ferry, along with ownership partners Ed Peskowitz and Todd Foreman. In it, Levenson attempts to link a high percentage of black fans to the low season ticket sales. He theorizes the white fans are “scared” by the high percentage of black fans, and while he says complaints over such issues is “racist garbage,” Levenson also says he wants to change the demographics of home games to help put more white, middle-aged men in the seats. (For example, he said maybe the team didn’t have to play rap all game long.)

    https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/9/7/6120091/bruce-levenson-email-danny-ferry-atlanta-hawks-owner

    Levenson was forced to sell the team, and issued a groveling apology.

  73. Realist says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Elites do it for money…just like whores. Greed has completely taken over. We live a in a extreme wealth discrepancy society which will come to an end, as it should.

  74. Richard B says:
    @Anon

    JSI = Jewish Supremacy Inc. is an even bigger Gorilla than the Chinese.

    As of today you can still talk about the Chinese.

    But JSI is still the proverbial Gorilla in the room you can’t talk about.

    Except maybe in private or in the comment section of TUR and a handful of other sites (all more than likely being monitored by both the JSI and China. In fact, Hi Guys! :).

    And while we’re busy not talking about that particular Gorilla in the room, they’re busy controlling the largest market.

    But nice try.

  75. @Anon

    Something’s missing, after the colon.

  76. songbird says:

    Of course, “hurts the feelings of the Israeli people” is a clunky phrase that Jews, with their high verbal ability, would not use.

  77. @Barnard

    “… interest is waning in the U.S.”

    How can that be? America’s population is exploding.

  78. @Anon

    Virtually everything Jesus said in the Synoptic gospels boils down to “poor good: rich bad.”

    So you people are very un-Christian, considering all the rich ass kissing you do.

  79. @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Yes, and yes. And you are welcome.

  80. @XYZ (no Mr.)

    ” I don’t, because I’m American and have free speech in my own land. ”

    You do lead a rich fantasy life.

  81. Tony says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    How come he was never voted “sexiest man alive”?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  82. notsaying says:

    I was wondering if Morey’s Tweet was from the team’s account or his own. After having read a BBC article about this, I think it was his own.

    Actually I am shocked that Morey said this but I am glad. I support the Hong Kong protestors.

    In a way I can’t blame the Chinese — who have spent big bucks on basketball, it is true — for being upset. On the other hand, I like to support democracy. I would also note that many (if not most) of the Chinese big-wigs who don’t want Hong Kong to have its freedoms have property, assets and relatives in the First World so they themselves can have freedom and democracy whenever it suits them.

    Morey does have some political support, at any rate, according to the BBC.

    I suppose in the future people will become more and more guarded about what they say about India and China, with their populations being so big and companies being afraid of causing offense. Being an inter-connected world does seem to be a danger to freedom of speech.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49956385

  83. Yee says:

    China has our own Political Correct, just not about Blacks and gender, but about nation and country.

    What’s happening in HongKong isn’t about freedom, just plain anti-China riots. HongKong is freer than America. If you really want to fight for freedom, then it should be the Americans to fight for as much freedom as HongKong has. For example, HK has no law against treason and spying, you are free to beg foreign countries to harm your own country.

    Morey supports the anti-China rioters, so that’d be the end of the story. Unlike the American PC, Chinese PC of Nation and Country gets overwhelming approval from the people.

    It’d be OK if Morey practices his freedom of speech on Black and homosexual, but not on anti-China. Chinese sponsors would have no choice but to cut ties, otherwise they’d be viewed as traitors.

  84. Yee says:

    If China custom followed the practice of US custom to check social media a/c before letting foreigners enter the country, Morey sure wouldn’t be able to enter China…

    US custom have known to reject people with far milder offensive opinions about USA. Freedom of speech? Ha-Ha-Ha

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  85. Yee says:

    notsaying,

    “….I am glad. I support the Hong Kong protestors.”

    It’s all right, there’re individuals around the world who support 9/11, too. But are you willing to let those people to make billions in the USA?

  86. @Yee

    I need some pics and video proof of Hong Kong’s superior freedom under Chinese rule.

    Yee old boy — be a good sport and get me some!

    Let’s run some free speech tests, shall we? (I hope you live close to Hong Kong.)
    Tests:

    1) Xi Jinping pinatas — he’s definitely got the face for it.
    2) Xi-Jinping-In-A-Diaper balloons.
    3) Xi Jinping burned in effigy.
    4) Xi Jinping impersonator in a Winnie the Poo suit*
    5) Xi Jinping impersonator wearing a Chinese flag dress and red high heels. I love me some red. Make sure his breasts are of decent size.

    *fur is optional

    I await the results — Yee…. don’t let me down now.

  87. @Blodgie

    Rosas, the chief dude of the Timberwolves comes across as low IQ

    When the name Timberwolves was revealed just before their first season, local comic Jeff Gerbino said it smacked of “five short, slow white guys”.

  88. Anonymous[764] • Disclaimer says:

    South Park managed to cover this exact situation a week ago with the episode “Band in China.”

    https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china

    They cover the NBA, but here the kids discuss who controls what they see:

    Randy Marsh murders Winnie the Pooh so that he can sell his Colorado pot in China for a happy ending.

    Of course, South Park is now banned in China.

  89. @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I need some pics and video proof of Hong Kong’s superior freedom under Chinese rule.

    Under British rule, Hong Kong was freer than Britain. About the only things they prohibited were gambling and dog meat. One was addictive to the Chinese, the other beyond the pale for the palefaces. Both were available a short hovercraft away in Macau.

    As in any communist country, treason in China is defined by the party’s interests, not the nation’s or the people’s.

  90. @Tony

    How come he was never voted “sexiest man alive”?

    People was never sure he qualified as “alive”.

  91. Yee says:

    XYZ,

    Insulting other people don’t prove freedom of speech, it proves besmirch or verbal assaults, not sure what the term is, not a lawyer…

    I’ve already given you an example of HongKong being freer than USA. Unless you find my example not true, I consider that to be suffice. I’m not your tutor for free.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  92. Yee says:

    Reg Cæsar,

    “treason in China is defined by the party’s interests, not the nation’s or the people’s.”

    Here’s the definition of Treason in China, no mention of Party.

    Use your translation software if you can’t read Chinese. More details in the link. Why spread mis-information?

    背叛国家罪
    根据《中华人民共和国刑法》第一百零二条规定,背叛国家罪是指勾结外国或者境外机构、组织、个人,危害中华人民共和国的主权、领土完整和安全的行为。
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%83%8C%E5%8F%9B%E5%9B%BD%E5%AE%B6%E7%BD%AA/189879?fr=aladdin

  93. @Yee

    Sure, sure. Yee, if that makes you accept your cowardice better that’s okay.

    Diversity is our strength, after all.

    I’m also not your tutor, and would have to fail you for your lack of understanding of free speech.

    But don’t take it personally — please. I commend you for communicating with me in my native tongue. That is quite nice of you — I appreciate it.

    It helps — I could care less about Mandarin and I seriously doubt it will ever be popular among non-Chinese. (I am a little biased against non-alphabetic languages — even the Arabs managed an alphabet. Really, how embarrassing!)

    But a word of caution: Americans expect makers of cheap trinkets to be respectful…even in this modern age. Best play nice, or you will find you are not needed.

  94. Yee says:

    XYZ (no Mr.),

    “your lack of understanding of free speech.”

    Oh, I have perfect understanding of free speech. It mean hypocrisy.

    It means you can run your mouth about China, but not about Black and homosexual; you can insult some people, but not some other people.

    Why don’t you replace “Xi Jinping” in your test with your customers, your employer, colleagues, parents, spouse, children, and read your list to them, to prove what you have is free speech and not hypocrisy?

  95. Yee says:

    XYZ (no Mr.),

    “But a word of caution: Americans expect makers of cheap trinkets to be respectful”

    Looks like Morey and NBA need your advice more than I do…

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  96. @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Thanks man. I thought free speech is all about porn (you know, The People vs. Larry Flint). Now I know it’s also about childish insults.

    I want to be free!

    (Seriously, if you don’t know how to defend the Freedom of Speech, do you really have to pretend?)

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  97. Charon says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Here’s Bertrand Russell: “It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain opinions makes it impossible to earn a living.”

    I’ll say no more about this as I see you’ve received an adequate shellacking from the other contributors here.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  98. @yakushimaru

    Yee and you sound par for the course stupid about free speech.

    I will instruct you — you need it.

    If free speech was pleasant to everyone it would need no protections from anyone. Offensive speech is indeed free speech, and an excellent test. If you are unable or unwilling to bring up offensive speech when talking about free speech, or use examples, you are not talking about free speech at all, but rather trying to limit it indirectly.

    Offensive speech is of course subjective, which is why it must be used. If you are not Christian and therefore deny the divinity of Christ, that offends me, so you should shut up… because you’re not really engaging in free speech anymore, just being offensive. Saying HBD is true offends some. So what.

    Xi Jinping is a worthless dictator who can’t even be compared to Winnie the Pooh in China. That does make Xi Jinping a very pathetic man. Now Yee knows better than to insult Xi. Jail or worse. And fear is natural.

    But Americans insult Donald all the time in much the same fashion, or burn the flag, etc. No jail. It’s simple, Americans are freer to express thoughts without threat of jail or government harassment. I prefer America to China. Better land, better people.

    As for insulting black people or sexual deviants, many isteve readers seem strangely unaware that Steve Sailor himself holds many controversial views about race, sex, immigration, and yet lives openly in Southern California. I live in the Bay Area and routinely refer to trans people as mentally ill. I do realize that if I continually talked about HBD (I’m not even a fan) at work I would lose my job.

    What I would not lose is my freedom, nor be particularly worried about government action at all, nor have a mob of people come and try to kill me at my home.

    That is freedom of speech.

  99. “Chinese-American who refers to Taiwan as a ‘renegade province.”

    The Chinese took over Formosa by immigration, out-numbering the natives, who are all but forgotten.

    If enough Chinese migrate to the N. American west coast, they will assume the land underfoot to be another extra-territorial possession. One nation, one China.

  100. @Charon

    Which of course is absolute drivel — I’m starting to expect that from you.

    My loudly and publicly arguing for the reinstitution of slavery doesn’t make me immune from the economic choices of other citizens.

    My loudly and publicly arguing the Holocaust didn’t happen doesn’t make me immune from the economic choices of other citizens.

    Otherwise, those citizens themselves would lack agency.

    A society with free speech — America — guarantees the government will not fine nor imprison me for unpopular speech, and if I am physically threatened, protect me, or punish those who have harmed me.

    It does not guarantee me an easy time socially or financially.

  101. Marko says:

    “Hurts the feelings of the Jewish people” = 2 Google hits? Hahahahahaha.
    Tell ’em “Jews run Hollywood” and run it again.

  102. Yee says:

    XYZ (no Mr.)

    “… I would lose my job.
    What I would not lose is my freedom, nor be particularly worried about government action at all, nor have a mob of people come and try to kill me at my home.”

    If “not going to jail” is the standard for having free speech, “losing your job” isn’t, then Morey getting fired from NBA shouldn’t be considered hampering free speech… However, from all the comments I’ve read, it doesn’t seem to be the case. So, either you or the American public got the standard wrong…

    Regarding Xi Jinping, no one went to jail for insulting him. No, jail time never stops people from doing something. As there’re people stealing, robbing, beating, raping, murdering every day, why should jail time stop people from insulting the president?

    Now, insulting the king of Thailand will land people in jail and have, so your critique are more applicable there. But of course, the media only steer you to criticize China, even if the accusation is false.

    The most manipulated public in the world is convinced themselves “free”. What a joke!

  103. Nonsense — plenty of people have been harassed by the Chinese government, including jailed, for insulting Xi Jinping.

    But…you can easily prove me wrong: I did provide examples of what would convince me of free speech, in Hong Kong or China. Pics or video, thanks.

    Now: I don’t think (sane, non-left) Americans equate free speech with theft, rape, murder, and the like.

    In non-free countries like China, with primitive understanding of free speech, a few brave individuals speak out and do pay with loss of freedom. The fact that these individuals suffer government penalty for their speech precisely indicates China is not free, really the exact opposite of your point — you really shouldn’t have included that paragraph at all.

    Also, the issue isn’t that a corporation forced Morey to backtrack — that is on him to decide to obey, and in this was contemptible, but there you go. I don’t even blame the Chinese for attempting control. I do blame American elites in various industries for allowing foreigners to try to define speech here. That is very serious — by the way — if it wasn’t I wouldn’t have bothered to comment. I don’t worry about government harassment, but it’s enough to try to roll back damage done by domestic idiots. We don’t need foreigners in the mix.

    I think you will find if Morey had tweeted something pro-Trump and had to backtrack it due to internal domestic business pressure, the public outcry would be much much much less right now. I personally don’t like that fact, but there you go.

    But I think the Chinese are pretty inept and caused a ruckus before the next trade negotiations, which makes me happy.

    Regardless — your claim, not mine, was that 1) Hong Kong was freer than the USA — now– and 2) a second claim that America lacks free speech.

    Both are risible.

  104. Yee says:

    XYZ (no Mr.),

    “what would convince me of free speech, in Hong Kong or China. Pics or video, thanks.”

    Morey said he supports HongKong to fight for freedom. I told you that HongKong has more freedom the USA and given you an example as well. Not sure why you failed to understand. Unless USA eliminate laws against treason and spying, HongKong has more freedom than you.

    “Now: I don’t think (sane, non-left) Americans equate free speech with theft, rape, murder, and the like.”

    You said jail time would stop people insulting the president, and I told you that prisons are full of people, apparently it can’t stop people doing what they want. But no one went to jail for insulting Xi Jinping. If you know there’s someone, please provide a case number. There’s a on-line database with all rulings in China. Keep in mind of your own standard for free speech, losing jobs don’t count, only jail time counts.

    Nobody cares what you can and can’t say in America, but if you want to do business in China, than you should be respectful of China’s political correct. Wasn’t that your own advice to be respectful of one’s customers?

    Do you think I can insult Blacks or homosexuals, support anti-Semite or support 9/11 and still be able to sell my products in USA? Because, you see, I can do all that in China, and foreigners shouldn’t be allowed to define speech here. You must let me make money and not force me to backtrack.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  105. @Yee

    Well…this has been some fruitful cross cultural dialogue. I’ve met plenty of brainwashed Chinese, so I won’t accuse you of being a government agent.

    The remaining free press in Hong Kong, and of course the independent Republic of China, safe on its island, contain numerous news articles of people being jailed in China exactly for insulting Xi Jinping. He seems to be quite the weak sister, if you know what I mean.

    And I’m certainly glad…. it’s apparently legal to be a spy or commit treason in Hong Kong. After repeating it again I believe you. And I do think we have found a solution for peace in Hong Kong after all.

    President Trump will shortly announce 8 million Hong Kong residents have joined the American CIA as spies. That is not illegal in Hong Kong, and as official representatives of the United States Government, we expect our employees to be treated well.

    Best tell Xi Jinping to get on it — we don’t want to see any People’s Police running around Hong Kong.

  106. Yee says:

    XYZ (no Mr.),

    It’s sad to see Americans don’t even know they’re among the most brainwashed people in the world… If you think there’s “free press” in places under US influence, better listen to Harry Truman, he was quite clear about US policy of “information activities abroad”.

    I don’t really expect ordinary Americans being capable of analyze an issue independently. Because American basic education deliberately lower the quality of mathematics education. And what mathematics actually teach is how to analyze with logic, so students can have the ability to draw their own conclusion.

    ———————————
    Soft Power: The U.S. Cultural Offensive and Japanese Intellectuals
    Takeshi MATSUDA

    President Harry Truman clearly sensed the advent of a new age. On August 31, 1945, he proclaimed that “the nature of present-day foreign relations makes it essential for the United States to maintain information activities abroad as an integral part of the conduct of our foreign affairs.”

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  107. @Yee

    Now Yee,

    Harry Truman was a pretty racist dude — I don’t think he liked black Americans much, so by your own claims (America not having much free speech) he should be getting scrubbed from the history books or banned right now. But there he is, grinning and holding up the Chicago newspaper showing his supposed loss in 1948. Personally, I’m glad he integrated the armed forces of my land. Many were critical of this action, but it didn’t seem to harm combat effectiveness — why, think of the Korean War. Once the shock of the initial invasion wore off, an American soldier or Marine was worth 8 or 9 Chinese soldiers, at the very least.

    But back to propaganda. Sure, there’s Radio Free Asia for the US, and all those Confucius Institutes — Americans make fun of them — for the Chinese.

    But we all must get our news somewhere!

  108. d dan says:
    @Pincher Martin

    “If you think talk of Hong Kong separatism bothers the Chinese, try talking to them about Taiwan independence.”

    All forms of separatism are the third rails for China: Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macao, Xinjiang, Tibet.

    Reason: For over a century, China was victim of imperial powers that divvied up their territory. It took them almost another century to recover most of the lost land.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  109. d dan says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    “I need some pics and video proof of Hong Kong’s superior freedom under Chinese rule.”

    You are too ignorant to comment about Hong Kong. Hong Kong has the most freedom in the world.

    Freedom Index:
    Hong Kong: 90.2
    USA: 76.8

    https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  110. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    The disintegration of the USSR is a stark warning of what can happen if separatist movements are ignored and allowed to grow. You need to eliminate secessionists when they are still weak. The Russians failed to do this and lost their country as a result.

  111. @d dan

    That’s economic rankings.

    I know you are typing in English, but obviously lack understanding, as the entire discussion here is freedom of speech.

    China isn’t sending their best, at least to isteve.
    You guys are hilarious.

    • Replies: @d dan
  112. d dan says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    “That’s economic rankings.”

    It is about economic freedom – one of the major component of overall freedom.

    Want more? What about one from a Canadian think tank on human freedom:

    “Hong Kong ranks third-best globally for “human freedom”, topping such well-established democracies as the United States and United Kingdom, according to the research from the Fraser Institute, a Canadian think tank…”

    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1124194/hong-kong-beats-uk-us-human-freedom-index

    Or from Cato:

    https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2018-country-profiles-revised.pdf

    “I know you are typing in English, but obviously lack understanding, as the entire discussion here is freedom of speech.”

    Who says it is about freedom of speech ONLY? You? LOL.

    The entire discussion is about Rockets team wanting freedom of speech, so China says no freedom to make money. You think only you can define the agenda? You obviously lack understanding of the back and forth.

    “You guys are hilarious.”

    You are embarrassing.

  113. @d dan

    The article — from 2013 — discussing the Fraser Institute’s rankings states Hong Kong is 3rd in ‘human freedom’, and mainland China 100th. (Typical quality from China.) Sadly, both scored fairly low on civil rights, HK being 49.

    Yet the entire point of the current Hong Kong protests are that China is very certainly making Hong Kong a lot more like China, not the reverse.

    So currently Hong Kong is somewhere between 3 and 100, and will continue to get closer to 100.

    That has frightened a lot of people.

    Again, that’s why I think China is not sending their best to isteve. It’s almost like you don’t read the articles you link to.

    That is hilarious, really.

    • Replies: @d dan
  114. @d dan

    And when I debate free speech, I of course talk about free speech.

    Links to economic rankings from libertarian think tanks like CATO is a cute attempt to change the measurement, but as usual, China fails to measure up.

  115. d dan says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I know it is comforting to hide under a romantic view of your so-called “freedom of speech” blanket. But hey, who care about the realities in the world. For examples:

    1. Saying the wrong things can get people in jail everywhere in the world, including in USA, e.g. Supreme Court already says it is illegal to “shout fire in a crowded cinema”, or to express certain forms of hate speech.

    2. Even if you manage to escape prison time, you may still lose your job, your business, your contract, your partners, or being dis-invited to important events…

    3. Insulting Xi will not get you in jail in China (I told you, you are too ignorant to talk about China). Yes, your account may be closed. But didn’t Twitter and FaceBook just closed thousands of accounts for posting messages that were too pro-Beijing and anti Hong Kong protesters? So, to quote a famous crook, “what difference does it make?”

    4. What happened in Hong Kong is PURELY China’s domestic issue. Americans crow about foreign interference in domestic politics, and have no problem imposing punishments, e.g. sanctions against Russians for alleged interference in election, or banning Huawei for spying (no proof required, of course). So, why can’t China impose her own form of economic sanctions against Rocket team?

    5. Most people in the world do NOT care about your silly definition of “speech”. Insulting political leaders is fun, but it does not fill your stomach, help your children’s education, improve your health, or even change the policy of your country. Most people care about ECONOMIC freedom and OVERALL freedom. And Hong Kong is more free than US in those regards.

    That concludes my lesson for you today. Remember to study for your quiz.

    You are welcome.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  116. @d dan

    Fascinating study into the mind of the Chinese.

    You fail, continuously and not unsurprisingly, to rebut any of my points. It’s not personal, unless you’re Xi Jinping himself. You didn’t create your country’s civic culture. But at least have the intelligence and self discipline to recognize it is very substandard compared to America. And the civic culture in America is pretty bad now.

    Since the Chinese are failures at both freedom of speech and economic freedom, by the very links you provided me, and of course are making Hong Kong much less free, you attempt to move the goalposts and claim that no one really wants freedom of speech at all — it being useless in the real world. Just keepin’ it real, eh?

    This does reek of the mentality of a child when he is envious of another child’s toy — he didn’t want that toy anyway!

    But free speech of course is crucial in effecting change in democracies. Since China is an authoritarian dictatorship that thinks its people are either too inept, or too stupid, for democracy — you would have the answer to that, being more experienced than me there — I understand why you may think people don’t need free speech.

    But we do. And of course we have lots and lots of it in America, more than Hong Kong, and much much more than China.

    • Replies: @d dan
  117. d dan says:
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Most people try to avoid commenting on topic that they have neither the interest NOR the knowledge in. For example, I won’t join into discussion about 17th century American church music nor traditional Zimbabwe social structure where I have neither the interest nor knowledgeable.

    From the brief conversation, I can see that you have neither the interest nor knowledge about China in general, and about Hong Kong in particular. However, like typical American, you never seem to hesitate to make sweeping, superficial or even outright false comments (plenty of them) about both China and Hong Kong. I do commend on your frankness, but advise you against hubris. Many people I encountered are even so arrogant as to lecture the Chinese about Chinese history, about Chinese culture, about what is best for China, what policy, ideology to adopt, what government China should have,… etc (sounds familiar?) In some way, I can’t blame you (or them) because you are the product of the 24/7 western media propaganda machinery against China.

    However, you don’t have to fear the converse. China is the country that exports the most tourists and students in the world. Chinese studies American history, culture, tradition, technology, politics, ideology…. A typical “US expert” in China is someone who is at least bilingual, studies and/or works in USA for decades, reads thousands of articles and books about USA. So, you don’t have to worry that Chinese don’t understand about “democracy”, or about the “superior” American system, or about the “freedom of speech”, or whatever thing Chinese should have. However, a so-called “China expert” in US, usually is one who reads something from someone who reads something from someone, who reads something….(after n times) from someone who knows to read in Chinese.

    I really don’t have the time nor interest to try to rebut and educate you on everything about China. I strongly advise you to try reading beyond what is available from the western sources (e.g. even Japanese or Russian sources will be more neutral than American sources) Good luck in your pursuit of truth and acquiring knowledge beyond the superficial. Hope to hear you making more insightful comments about China in future somewhere in Internet, if you still have the interest.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
  118. @d dan

    A country that needs to send lots of students abroad for education sounds pretty crappy, actually. I would be embarrassed as an American if my nation couldn’t actually properly educate our own students at home. And we honestly need to do much better here. So your system must be pretty inferior. You do boast about the strangest things, seriously.

    But am I understanding correctly that the Chinese people as a whole have decided they themselves are too inept, or too stupid, for democracy? You didn’t really answer that question. I had hoped only the members of the authoritarian dictatorship felt that way: it’s actually pretty insulting to the Chinese people. (There’s a subgroup of Americans that don’t respect themselves — the NBA membership being an example — and I don’t wish that on any nation, it’s really a cancer.) But it sounds like everyone thinks the same. Sad.

    • LOL: d dan
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