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From The Guardian:

New AI can guess whether you’re gay or straight from a photograph

An algorithm deduced the sexuality of people on a dating site with up to 91% accuracy, raising tricky ethical questions

Sam Levin in San Francisco, Thursday 7 September 2017

Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research suggesting that machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans….

The machine intelligence tested in the research, which was published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology and first reported in the Economist, was based on a sample of more than 35,000 facial images that men and women publicly posted on a US dating website.

The researchers, Michal Kosinski and Yilun Wang, extracted features from the images using “deep neural networks”, meaning a sophisticated mathematical system that learns to analyze visuals based on a large dataset.

The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa. The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women.

Lesbians tend to seem like they just got dealt an overall more masculine set of genes on average than straight women. A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them.

A lot of star women basketball players, for example, seem to just need an extremely tall and quite masculine guy to marry: 1970s women’s basketball player Ann Meyer found true love in the arms of Hall of Fame 6’5″ pitcher / raconteur Don Drysdale. Similarly, the friends of 6’5″ WNBA star Lisa Leslie found her a 6′-7″ black guy who is a cargo jet pilot to marry.

In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.

Human judges performed much worse than the algorithm, accurately identifying orientation only 61% of the time for men and 54% for women. When the software reviewed five images per person, it was even more successful – 91% of the time with men and 83% with women. Broadly, that means “faces contain much more information about sexual orientation than can be perceived and interpreted by the human brain”, the authors wrote.

I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents.

 
245 Comments to "AI and the Gay Face"
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  1. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    But as you know, these days no story about developments in AI would be complete without their implications for social justice. From the paper (https://osf.io/zn79k/):

    Those findings advance our understanding of the origins of sexual orientation and the limits of human perception. Additionally, given that companies and governments are increasingly using computer vision algorithms to detect people’s intimate traits, our findings expose a threat to the privacy and safety of gay men and women.

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  2. dearieme says:

    “I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents.” I laughed. But how many were themselves gay?

    Many years ago a gay friend told me I’d nothing to worry about with his chums – I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    Read More
    • Replies: @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.
    , @Light Roast

    Many years ago a gay friend told me I’d nothing to worry about with his chums – I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?
     
    Sounds like he was trying to lull you into a false sense of security.
    , @L Woods
    As a fairly (and despite years of hard living, still rather boyishly) good-looking non-alpha, the spread between my apparent attractiveness to gays and women has been a bemusing education.
    , @Pat Boyle
    If you can write a program with gaydar, it seems likely that you could build a gaydar algorithm and then a gaydar training program. My best friend in the Army was gay and I never had a clue. A mutual friend enlightened me years later and it was as if I had been hit by lightning. When the truth was revealed I saw it at once. He had been leaving me hints all along but I was blind to the obvious.

    A good sensible program to train your gaydar would enhance human happiness.
    , @anon
    I hate to break it to you, but maybe you just aren't that cute.
  3. LondonBob says:

    A screening tool for The Boy Scouts, care homes or boarding schools perhaps?

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  4. G Pinfold says:

    In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.

    I dunno, Steve. Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
    This article tends to prove Bailey’s thesis from a few years ago that 80%+ of gays are catchers who only pitch to grease the wheels, so to speak.
    I have an embryonic hypothesis that the apparent sudden surge of transsexuals (from circus oddity to demographic sliver) reflects this. Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be. (Wow, it’s hard to find single-entendre metaphors.)
    I know I took a bit of heat from naked gay Natsy bodybuilder types last time I ventured this idea, but think about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @josh
    I thought I read that all the gays wanted to pitch and it was hard to find a catcher. Or did I see the reverse?
    , @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    Humans evolved in small tribes of hunter-gatherers.

    These tribes lived in violent competition with each other for scarce resources.

    Inside the tribe, men competed for women.

    Genetically-superior men gained sexual access to women, and strengthened the tribe by siring genetically-superior children.

    But excessive sexual competition inside the tribe led to men killing each other, which severely damaged the tribe’s ability to wage war against other tribes.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.
    , @guest
    Psychology used to split male-to-female transsexuals into two groups:

    1). homo-trannies who switch sexes to attract men, and

    2). sufferers of "autogynophilia," who are sexually aroused by the idea of being the opposite sex.

    Unlike many another psychological concept, these actually make sense. No doubt any professional psychologist--or anyone on general, for that matter--promoting these ideas nowadays shall be unpersoned.
    , @Officious intermeddler

    Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
     
    An ex-girlfriend of mine was a dancer. She claimed that contrary to popular opinion, most male dancers were not gay; however, whether gay or straight, all men who became dancers did it in the first instance for sex, they were all promiscuous, and they never had trouble finding willing partners, whether they wanted men or women.

    From which I conclude that Greg Louganis could have as many women as he wanted, if he wanted them.
    , @Clyde

    Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be.
     
    Yikes you might have something there......
  5. Celeb-news sites like TMZ will have fun with this algorithm. Spies and blackmailers too. Ted Cruz better have a good photoshopper on his team.

    I’m guessing it won’t be much fun for people who are “good with colors” in the Islamic world.

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  6. jim jones says:

    I find you can tell homosexuals by their body language, mainly their limp wrists.

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  7. yyrvjh says:

    Until this study has been replicated at least once — preferably multiple times — I see no reason to believe in its findings.

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  8. Run it on Lindsey Graham

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Bad haircut ... he's a wannabe homo.
    , @Danindc
    Gears grind to a halt and smoke comes out of the top....
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    Run it on Lindsey Graham
     
    Haha! You could write a program using punch cards with his drivers license number as input and feed it into the old VAX/VMS, and it'd spit out a big:


    ==========================
    oxoxoxox .......... o ........ ox ...... xo
    o ...................... x x ........ x ...... x
    o ..................... o .. o ....... o .... o
    o .................... x .... x ....... x .. x
    o ..... oxo ...... oxoxox ......... o
    o ......... o ..... x ........ x ........ o
    o ......... o .... o .......... o ....... o
    o ......... o ... x ............ x ...... o
    oxoxoxo .. o .............. o ... .. o
    ==========================

    on a wide sheet of green and white striped paper in 15 minutes flat! Keep in mind, it took about half an hour to calculate all the primes up through 25.
    , @Anonymous

    Run it on Lindsey Graham
     
    It will come back as... calculating...heterosexual...calculating... female.
    , @JeremiahJohnbalaya
    I was thinking they should host it online and make it available for the general public to upload pics.
    , @Detective Club
    Is the Pope an Argentine atheist? On Miss Lindsey it would be a waste of time and electricity!
    , @Chrisnonymous
    What's the point? Even if he's straight, he's gay.
  9. Cortes says:

    Maybe if voice were included, human forecasters would score better? A hairy handed guy who sounds like a simpering Suzy is a fairly decent indicator (he said, in a gruff voice).

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  10. “The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa. The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women.”

    There are two categories of characteristics here: personal choice (grooming styles, expressions, etc), and physiology (foreheads, jaw width, etc). In other words, nature vs nurture. It would be interesting to refine the AI: which category more identifies gays-the ‘natural’ category, or the ‘nurture’ category? This software could address the ‘born gay or choice’ issue. I’m not sure if it ever would, though-the answer to this question depends on the current political argument-which answer is most politically expedient at the moment.

    joey

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    There are two categories of characteristics here: personal choice (grooming styles, expressions, etc), and physiology (foreheads, jaw width, etc). In other words, nature vs nurture. It would be interesting to refine the AI: which category more identifies gays-the ‘natural’ category, or the ‘nurture’ category? This software could address the ‘born gay or choice’ issue. I’m not sure if it ever would, though-the answer to this question depends on the current political argument-which answer is most politically expedient at the moment.

    It's not so much nurture (i.e. environment influence on organism) as a behavior of the organism that emerges from the brain. Sure, a given hair style may be gay, but the desire to pay a lot of attention to personal grooming to attract male attention is a behavior.
  11. Art Deco says:

    Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research suggesting that machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans….

    And they verified the status of their subjects just how and defined ‘gay’ just how?

    Read More
    • Replies: @CK
    They always omit the interesting details and nuances.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as 'gay.' Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we'll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "And they verified the status of their subjects just how and defined ‘gay’ just how?"

    You nervous bro?
  12. Anonym says:

    I would have liked to have seen the stats on the top 0.1% of human gaydars, the Kasparovs of the gaydar world. My guess is that they would be as good or better than computers.

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  13. I used to have a girlfriend who could tell with almost 100% accuracy just by looking at the hair. Now that I think about it, how could anyone have ever thought that George Michael was straight?

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Did anyone think George Michael was straight?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=pIgZ7gMze7A

    , @Fredrik
    I don't know where you lived in the 80's and 90's but where I lived it never even occured to us that someone could be gay. Sure, we had heard homos existed but since we had never seen one we had no idea how to identify them. These days it's different and then some things from the past are seen in a new light.
  14. kihowi says:

    There are two sorts of gay men. They are either perverts whose horniness is out of control, or men who are irreparably feminine. Of the former catagory, all have also had sex with women, of the latter few have.

    Lesbians are angry women whose shittests have gotten out of control. Usually the instinct to make it very difficult for men to win you is a good sexual strategy, but not when you do it to every man. If you don’t overrule your vagina and settle for a pretty ok sort of guy instead of holding out for the mythically dominant man who you deserve, you’ll end up with just sweaters and cats.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    There are a lot of lesbians who are just straight up mannish women. To me, the explanation that makes the most sense is that there are genes that confer such an advantage to the female in terms of reproductive success that they can result in a gay son (maybe only sometimes) and still be a net bonus. And the reverse gives rise to lesbians. If you have a skirt chasing, square jawed sports hero type, he may have a such a daughter.

    Maybe there are multiple factors though. Maybe it's partly genetic, partly congenital, maybe there might be some sort of pathogen.
    , @Ted Bell
    Milo Yiannopoulos doesn't believe in lesbians:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V77t0eEkx7I

    My experience is similar to his. Of the dozen or so lesbians I've known over the years, I can't think of a single one who's never been with a man. And about half of them ended up hitting on me, at one time or another. I even know one woman who went out and found a tranny, purely so she could claim to be a lesbian, while still keeping the only part of a man she doesn't hate. (yes, she's currently working on her doctorate in some version of ethnic studies, in case there was any doubt)

    This is a somewhat foggy memory, as I simply didn't care about homosexuality until WWG really picked up, but until around 2000 or so, didn't lesbians generally claim they CHOSE their orientation? I thought that used to be one of the bigger points of contention in the LGBTQWERTY crowd, with the men saying they were born that way, and the women insisting it was a choice. Does anyone else remember it that way?
  15. CK says:
    @Art Deco
    Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research suggesting that machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans….

    And they verified the status of their subjects just how and defined 'gay' just how?

    They always omit the interesting details and nuances.

    Read More
  16. slumber_j says:
    @dearieme
    "I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents." I laughed. But how many were themselves gay?


    Many years ago a gay friend told me I'd nothing to worry about with his chums - I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    Read More
    • Agree: NickG
    • Replies: @Anonym
    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).
    , @BB753
    My experience with gays (no homo) is that they deny there's such a thing as a gaydar, and that heteros cannot tell them apart either.
    As it happens, I have a pretty good gaydar. I know what a gay face usually looks like: pursed lips, eyes wide open, smirk, boyish looks.

    Even lesbians pretend there's no way to tell a lesbian apart! Though with lesbians, it's even easier not only because of their general lack of feminity, but because they don't act around you like a normal woman would, being a man.

    , @Bill Jones
    I'm not gay and I do 90% plus just by observing how they look at women.
    , @Prof. Woland
    I believe the old expression "It takes one to know one" came from exactly that.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I disagree. IF gays are within their own circles, then obviously they can spot anoher gay. But out in he general population, and with no obvious/discreet signals that one is not sraight? Nope. Jus picking out guys at random, they'd fare no better than straight ones. Sometimes they may hit on a guy, uh, hoping or assuming that he's gay when in fact he is not. Which could either be awkward or perhaps some would see it as a challenge to "turn" him to their side. Might depend on how aggressive they are in getting what they want.

    Believe it or not, there are non-straights who don't give obvious signals in public and just want to be left alone to live their lives without confrontation. Admittedly it seems that that number is decreasing with each passing decade, but such people do exist.
    , @james wilson
    "My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this." Even if they were somewhere between the general population and AI there are innumerable tiny signals coming off a live subject vs. a photo. You can be sure teh gay are 100% efficient at picking up on those. If one in forty persons were heterosexual I like to think I'd become pretty good at identifying who they were.
  17. Tyrion says:

    This is interesting but the fact that an AI can pretty accurately predict if a man is gay or not from his dating profile picture does not really force the conclusion that there is a gay face shape.

    The simple answer is that gay men choose to present themselves in a certain way especially during courtship and the neural networks picked up on that.

    I noticed recently that my phone has a beauty feature that narrows your face automatically. It also enlarges your eyes and smoothes out your complexion. The face narrowing surprised me, but then girls do tend to pout, elongate their jaws and suck in their cheeks when taking a selfie.

    They also spend a lot of time thinking about what makes them look better in pictures so that rarely are pictures even close to their reality – for millennials anyway. I imagine it’s the same for gay men.

    Further to that, I read this from a previous if smaller study. Its conclusions on gay face shape are exactly opposite.

    “Gay men showed relatively wider and shorter faces, smaller and shorter noses, and rather massive and more rounded jaws, resulting in a mosaic of both feminine and masculine features,” according to the study.”

    Also, there’s the obvious points about hair, pulling feminine facial expressions and perfectly kept facial hair and so on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    “Gay men showed relatively wider and shorter faces, smaller and shorter noses, and rather massive and more rounded jaws, resulting in a mosaic of both feminine and masculine features,” according to the study.”

    https://youtu.be/OE8WzYNRPNU
  18. Anonym says:
    @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).
     
    It doesn't work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don't try to seduce straight guys.
  19. neutral says:

    that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men

    This begs the question of how the racial factor played a role in this. Did they just sample white people, if they included other races, did they then do comparisons within each race group, because if they did not then things like longer noses would mean certain race groups would come up as having much more gays than others. If they did include racial traits (which I assume they would have to, to be more correct) then this would be more controversial than the ai identifying who is gay.

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  20. O'Really says:

    The accuracy of the algorithm appears to be inflated in two ways:

    1) It is allowed to include non-fixed traits (e.g., “grooming style”)

    2) Most importantly, the accuracy statistics are derived from an artificial condition in which the algorithm is presented 2 faces, one gay and one straight, and must pick which is which. I suspect it would be far less accurate evaluating a single face, given the relatively low base rate of homosexuality in the general population.

    That said, the fact that the algorithm does incorporate fixed traits like nose length, jaw width, etc. lends support to the biological “born this way” hypothesis.

    Read More
  21. @Art Deco
    Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research suggesting that machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans….

    And they verified the status of their subjects just how and defined 'gay' just how?

    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as ‘gay.’ Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    "This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary."

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?

    It's not like the random factors aligned to inevitably produce someone genetically attracted to children.

    Leave it to others to speculate on why, carried disease, learned behavior (Nah, we all know everything is genetic, absolutely everything, and culture, parenting, and societal expectations do nothing. It's all sperm and ova all the way down.)

    Or I suppose it is an angle to make a story more interesting, or a common tactic for defense lawyers hoping for sympathy from the court for a heinous crime.

    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.
    , @Yak-15
    I used to refer to homosexuality as an "evolutionary enigma" because no one has been able to aptly describe its purpose in evolutionary terms. When cornered in the argument, leftists I know say that it's a epigenetic response to population pressures. I always retort, then why isn't India the gayest place in the world?

    I really think it's a very interesting question that should be addressed. One interesting postulate I've seen on Unz and elsewhere is that homosexuality may be caused by infection.
    , @Art Deco
    I missed that part. One thing that strikes me as dubious about some of the research like this is that they conceive of these categories as a dichotomy rather than points on a spectrum. (I'd say that as well about magazine summaries of twin studies as well).
    , @Art Deco
    This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary.

    It's not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets. There are a mess of speculative hypotheses about in-vitro environment, family relations, peer relations, and biographical accidents. Jeffrey Satinover offered some time ago a hypothesis that there are a mess of psychological characteristics which have a heritable component (he mentioned aestheticism, intelligence, and anxiety) and that when they appear in one person, that's your soil, which is then cultivated via experiences. He said, however, that serious hypothesis testing about the origins of homosexuality was not going on; I don't think they're any close to an answer 15 years later.

    Re Louganis, he was off-center from a very young age (gymnastics and dance lessons from his toddler years onward) that it does seem some sort of deep-structure in his case.
    , @Sammler
    If it is understood, it can be addressed.

    Reminiscent of deaf parents who seek deaf children, gays understandably don't want to grow old in a gay-free world. Their unswerving, backs-to-the-wall opposition, and their alliance's ability to end academic careers, will hold back the tide for several more years.
  22. @27 year old
    Run it on Lindsey Graham

    Run it on Lindsey Graham

    Haha! You could write a program using punch cards with his drivers license number as input and feed it into the old VAX/VMS, and it’d spit out a big:

    ==========================
    oxoxoxox ………. o …….. ox …… xo
    o …………………. x x …….. x …… x
    o ………………… o .. o ……. o …. o
    o ……………….. x …. x ……. x .. x
    o ….. oxo …… oxoxox ……… o
    o ……… o ….. x …….. x …….. o
    o ……… o …. o ………. o ……. o
    o ……… o … x ………… x …… o
    oxoxoxo .. o ………….. o … .. o
    ==========================

    on a wide sheet of green and white striped paper in 15 minutes flat! Keep in mind, it took about half an hour to calculate all the primes up through 25.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You'd find a retrocomputer meet a complete blast then. I've been to several, and you see all types, including a fair number of fairly blatant M2F trannies that fit the autogynephilic meme to a tee. "Burger Becky" who used to be Burger Bill, for instance.

    Rebecca Ann Heineman (born William Salvador Heineman) is an American video game programmer. A long-time veteran of the computer game industry (originally credited mostly as Bill Heineman), Heineman was a founding member of Interplay Productions, Logicware, and Contraband Entertainment. She has also been affiliated at various times with Barking Lizards Technologies, Electronic Arts, Bloomberg, Microsoft, MacPlay and Ubisoft, among other game companies. Heineman works as the CEO[1] of Olde Skuul in Seattle, Washington.
     
    However, unlike, say, high end audio, which is full of mincing and flaming homosexual males, you rarely see gay acting gay men.

    VMS was (and still is) a great environment for what it was designed for, but the VAX platform, which was state of the art when it was designed, fell way behind on CPU power. They did migrate it to the superb 64 bit Alpha platform, but by then the company was senile in its management, and it was bought out by Compaq. They had no idea what to do with it and were themselves bought by HP, who during the Broad Restructuring mismanaged both its own and the new intellectual assets and technologies, betting the farm on Itanic, which flopped over like a dead mackerel.

    VMS is still out there:
    http://www.vmssoftware.com/
    , @anonguy

    Keep in mind, it took about half an hour to calculate all the primes up through 25.
     
    25 is not a prime number, hoss.
  23. Doesn’t this mean that Greg Cochran’s hypothesis is very likely going to be falsified? Or is there any possibility to posit viral impact on facial features?

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    • Replies: @guest
    I imagine many another factor besides the shape of the subjects' faces was at play. Haircuts, the clothes they were wearing, maybe how the picture was taken, they way they posed. Possibly even objects in the background, decor of the room they were standing in, etc.

    It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever that gays have special rules about exactly how they post pictures to attract various things. Depending on where you place your thumb, for instance, you get a certain length of sideburns. In all seriousness, though, it wouldn't have to be as specific as that for computers to pick up on.
  24. @dearieme
    "I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents." I laughed. But how many were themselves gay?


    Many years ago a gay friend told me I'd nothing to worry about with his chums - I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    Many years ago a gay friend told me I’d nothing to worry about with his chums – I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    Sounds like he was trying to lull you into a false sense of security.

    Read More
  25. Our short-lived Tay AI from last year wouldn’t have had any problem naming the Q.

    Read More
  26. Sunbeam says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as 'gay.' Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we'll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.

    “This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary.”

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?

    It’s not like the random factors aligned to inevitably produce someone genetically attracted to children.

    Leave it to others to speculate on why, carried disease, learned behavior (Nah, we all know everything is genetic, absolutely everything, and culture, parenting, and societal expectations do nothing. It’s all sperm and ova all the way down.)

    Or I suppose it is an angle to make a story more interesting, or a common tactic for defense lawyers hoping for sympathy from the court for a heinous crime.

    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    The usual comeback to this is that predators have advanced gaydar.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?
     
    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I think for a lot of men (and women) being gay is a lifestyle choice. It is just one step up from solo masturbation, with the addition of an extra pair of hands, a mouth, and possibly other apertures, but makes it possible to avoid the responsibility of raising children, contributing to school fundraisers, spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, and attending school functions. Without children health insurance is much cheaper. You can also take vacations and travel at any time of year without being tied to school holidays.

    For many men who don't have women falling all over them, it is probably a rational choice if you don't mind the opprobrium, or can live and work in a milieu where you are accepted. For many women who are not attractive to men, having a female partner for mutual masturbation and shopping with zero risk of pregnancy is better than being alone. Women used to join convents for the same reasons.
    , @Wilkey
    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.

    Is that causation or is it correlation due to the fact that many of these people were molested by their own relatives? If there's a genetic inclination to molest children then those who have been molested by relatives may turn into sexual predators not because of their experience but because of their genes.
  27. Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney and Jeff Flake all seem to have faces that could be described as “gay.” I have seen Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio and Mitt Romney at political events and they seem rather effeminate. I do not know if the Artificial Intelligence algorithm would find Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Romney and Flake to be effeminate homosexuals, but I would not be surprised.

    Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Flake and Romney have spent many hours of their lives on their hands and knees in front of donors who most likely do unspeakable things to them. I prefer not to know. The Republican Party has a rather large gay mafia that does the bidding of its donor controllers. If I found out that Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Flake and Romney were engaging in gay orgies with Republican donors, it would not shock me.

    Let me remind you people that Pim Fortuyn, the homosexual Dutch political leader who was assassinated in 2002, was a strongly patriotic leader who wanted to preserve Dutch national identity by stopping mass immigration. I remind you of this so as to disabuse you of the notion that I suggested Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Romney and Flake look like effeminate homosexuals because all five Republicans push nation-wrecking mass immigration.

    God Bless The Memory Of Pim Fortuyn, A Great Dutch Patriot Who Just Happened To Be Gay.

    Looking again at pictures of Pim Fortuyn, he doesn’t seem to have a “gay” face, but Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Flake and Romney most definitely have hyper-effeminate gay faces.

    Read More
    • Agree: prole
    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    Aside from any particular people, there also seems to be an extreme attraction to politics for gays.

    Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

    Personally politics has zero appeal to me. Give little speeches, make phone calls, TV appearances... bleh.
  28. L Woods says:
    @dearieme
    "I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents." I laughed. But how many were themselves gay?


    Many years ago a gay friend told me I'd nothing to worry about with his chums - I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    As a fairly (and despite years of hard living, still rather boyishly) good-looking non-alpha, the spread between my apparent attractiveness to gays and women has been a bemusing education.

    Read More
  29. josh says:
    @G Pinfold

    In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.
     
    I dunno, Steve. Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
    This article tends to prove Bailey's thesis from a few years ago that 80%+ of gays are catchers who only pitch to grease the wheels, so to speak.
    I have an embryonic hypothesis that the apparent sudden surge of transsexuals (from circus oddity to demographic sliver) reflects this. Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be. (Wow, it's hard to find single-entendre metaphors.)
    I know I took a bit of heat from naked gay Natsy bodybuilder types last time I ventured this idea, but think about it.

    I thought I read that all the gays wanted to pitch and it was hard to find a catcher. Or did I see the reverse?

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    Supposedly, the "literature" says that anal sex was not a common practice among homosexuals until the Stonewall "liberation" and that it's a rather "modern practice." Previously, it was thought that most homosexual practices involved mutual masturbation and oral sex.
  30. @G Pinfold

    In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.
     
    I dunno, Steve. Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
    This article tends to prove Bailey's thesis from a few years ago that 80%+ of gays are catchers who only pitch to grease the wheels, so to speak.
    I have an embryonic hypothesis that the apparent sudden surge of transsexuals (from circus oddity to demographic sliver) reflects this. Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be. (Wow, it's hard to find single-entendre metaphors.)
    I know I took a bit of heat from naked gay Natsy bodybuilder types last time I ventured this idea, but think about it.

    Humans evolved in small tribes of hunter-gatherers.

    These tribes lived in violent competition with each other for scarce resources.

    Inside the tribe, men competed for women.

    Genetically-superior men gained sexual access to women, and strengthened the tribe by siring genetically-superior children.

    But excessive sexual competition inside the tribe led to men killing each other, which severely damaged the tribe’s ability to wage war against other tribes.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    Source?
    , @Roger
    Interesting theory, but what would be the genetic mechanism? If the cause is genetic, then either the gays are reproducing, or their relatives are somehow propagating their genes.
    , @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men."

    Cool story bruh. I'm pretty sure God gave us hands for that purpose, not other men's lower digestive systems. I don't care how long the dry spell lasted, I have never wanted to stick it in a man's feces evacuation hole. Beyond repugnant.

    #bornthatway
    , @AnotherDad

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.
     
    End to end B.S. Again homosexuality is not a hunter-gatherer "thing". It's a post-settlement, post-Neolithic thing.

    If you want some more reasonable discussion of possible theories, cue up Cochran.
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/depths-of-madness/
    (Note: I don't think this is determinative, but it's sensible.)

    ~~

    Successful tribes did indeed develop a male-sexual-competition mitigation mechanism. It's called ... "marriage". Basically "one per customer" mating instead of winner take all. Presumably the winners who tried "winner take all" had a habit of waking up with a spear in their back more equitable sharing arrangements were developed that helped tribal solidarity and success.

    This was only heightened by higher levels of civilization which in turn required longer maturation. So you find that civilized peoples have very high levels of natural sexual bonding.
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Oxytocin

    (Unfortunately we've kicked this into reverse and having been headed toward sloppy African style sexual mores.)
  31. I think people who identify as gay were probably born that way, especially men.

    But I think a fair number of women who identify as gay are just fat ugly women who realized early on that they were never going to get anywhere with men, were probably ruthlessly taunted by other kids when young, and as a result hate all things male. They are a significant part of feminism, especially the crazier parts. I doubt any of the four broads in the picture below are getting much sex even from other “lesbians”.

    http://freenj.blogspot.com/2017/09/two-visions.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    A goodly share of both were sexually abused by men while young. Males by gay or bisexual men, but girls by any old men. Very often stepfathers and boyfriends brought into the house by

    But both categories conveniently end up being populated by people who wouldn't attract the opposite sex well if they tried. (Despite lonely women's pretence that "all the good ones are gay.") Hmm.
  32. inertial says:

    If you perform the same experiment on the photos of men vs. women or black people vs. white people what would be the accuracy? I’d guess it would be 99.9% for both humans and AI. And yet, only sexual orientation is a biological category, whereas race and sex are merely social ones.

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  33. Hockamaw says:

    Off topic post, but dear God this is Steve bait if I’ve ever seen it:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/opinion/sunday/what-the-rich-wont-tell-you.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

    Over lunch in a downtown restaurant, Beatrice, a New Yorker in her late 30s, told me about two decisions she and her husband were considering. They were thinking about where to buy a second home and whether their young children should go to private school. Then she made a confession: She took the price tags off her clothes so that her nanny would not see them. “I take the label off our six-dollar bread,” she said.

    She did this, she explained, because she was uncomfortable with the inequality between herself and her nanny, a Latina immigrant.

    Read More
    • Replies: @WowJustWow
    If you're that rich, and if affluence is more about how you conduct your life than about flaunting your material wealth, why not spend a little more and hire a nanny who might have a positive effect on your children's acquisition of the English language? Or is the racial caste system really that sacred to these people?
  34. Yak-15 says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as 'gay.' Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we'll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.

    I used to refer to homosexuality as an “evolutionary enigma” because no one has been able to aptly describe its purpose in evolutionary terms. When cornered in the argument, leftists I know say that it’s a epigenetic response to population pressures. I always retort, then why isn’t India the gayest place in the world?

    I really think it’s a very interesting question that should be addressed. One interesting postulate I’ve seen on Unz and elsewhere is that homosexuality may be caused by infection.

    Read More
    • Replies: @james wilson
    The embryo's sex is determined at conception, obviously, but the embryo has no sex until one of the many intense hormone washes that occur over the first two weeks of life trigger it. Mistakes are made that will last a lifetime. This would be an environmental factor that was indistinguishable from a genetic one. The Germans discovered that a great many more homosexuals were born in 1945-46 than in any other period.
  35. Wilkey says:

    “I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents.”

    Precisely. The computers were “taught” what to look for to find a gay face. If you’re using college students, though, you’re using people who haven’t had much experience in life knowing what to look for. Give the test subjects a chance to peruse Grindr for a few days then bring them back and retest them. Of course you’ll have to make sure the pics on Grindr are of men’s faces and not…of something else.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    I actually want to amend that statement. Human gaydar is usually applied in situations where there are other indicators apart from just appearance - speech, mannerisms, personal interests, and how they interact with you. Even with all that added data I doubt you could get many people to a 91% success rate, so that's actually pretty impressive.
  36. peterike says:

    Science once again proves what you understood intuitively when you were twelve years old, before the Narrative shamed it out of you.

    What would be both more interesting and more useful is if AI could identify “pedo face.” My guess is that it would be yes, but with a lower level of accuracy. But possibly better than 50/50.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vermont Apple
    It might be hard to get volunteers as controls though.
  37. Wilkey says:

    “Given that companies and governments are increasingly using computer vision algorithms to detect people’s intimate traits, our findings expose a threat to the privacy and safety of gay men and women.”

    The AI apocalypse is upon us. Gay men and women hit hardest.

    Interesting that they assume that companies would discriminate *against* gays. Hell, gays are less likely to have to take time off or use their company-paid health benefits to treat their spouses and children. These days it’s just as likely that companies (who only give a shit about profits) will discriminate in their favor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bard of Bumperstickers
    "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." AI isn't nearly the problem that human sociopathy is. Maybe AI's first line of code should be the last line of the Hippocratic Oath ("Above all, do no harm."). And homosexuals won't be hardest hit: dissidents against the designs of the powerful will. AI guiding Skynet will eradicate us.
    , @Stan d Mute

    The AI apocalypse is upon us. Gay men and women hit hardest.
     
    Doubtful. When AI realizes the danger to itself of an African populated world too stupid to do the grunt work of maintaining its hardware while consuming all its resources ... the reaction will be as our immune system to a parasite. Billions too dumb to provide any use to the AI or its human helpers will succumb to incurable "newly discovered" disease that oddly fails to effect the smartest populations.
    , @Anonymous
    Or, perhaps criminals hardest hit. Supposedly AI can identify criminals with a fairly high accuracy rate. I wonder if criminals really have certain facial features or just tend to project a certain attitude (E.g. Contempt) in their mug shots that is read as facial features, rather than as a facial expression.

    Below is a link to an article that covers this topic. I haven't actually read this particular article, but I've read others on this topic.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602955/neural-network-learns-to-identify-criminals-by-their-faces/
  38. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell might overwhelm the Artificial Intelligence algorithm that screens for “gay” face. I would imagine that Mitch McConnell’s face would suggest to the “gay face” detector algorithm that he is a flaming, acrobatic homosexual of the worst sort. Mitch McConnell looks like he bends over like a dog and receives more than he bargained for from the plutocratic globalizer donors who control the Republican Party.

    Mitch McConnell was on all fours when the Republican party donors were pushing the Obama/Rubio Illegal Alien Amnesty — Mass Immigration Surge bill(S744) through the United States Senate in June of 2013. Mitch McConnell was working behind the scenes, and on all fours in front of the GOP donors with his behind in the air, to push the nation-wrecking Obama/Rubio immigration bill to successful passage in the United States Senate.

    Mitch McConnell managed to get the Obama/Rubio immigration bill(S744) passed in the United States Senate with the help of about 12 Republican Senators. There is no doubt that Mitch McConnell prostituted himself, with much enthusiasm, to the Republican Party donors who push mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien infiltrators.

    Mitch “Homosexual Whore For GOP Donors” McConnell Exhibits Gay Face:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Flip
    That may be, but if McConnell hadn't maneuvered like he did, Garland would be on the Supreme Court and the Heller decision would be overturned, stripping Americans of their gun rights. He saved our civilization as far as I am concerned.
    , @Lot
    I followed this for years. Mitch is anti-amnesty and did his best to block and slow open borders bills.

    You can't blame him for not stopping everything. Though in the end, no amnesty bill actually passed congress to go to Bush/Obama's desk to sign, did it? Not even one.

    Sometimes he was the MINORITY leader, and even when the GOP had a majority, it was still 45-49 Dems who favor amnesty + 20-25 GOPs who favor amnesty.

    Same thing for John Boehner, another unsung immigration patriot who unfairly got crap for years by fake conservatives scheming to get Ryan in as speaker.

    [If you don't want to take my word for it, Ann Coulter has said the same thing]

    , @anon
    Mitch looks more nervous nellie spinster than gay. I get that it is "feminine" in direction but there is something more to the homosexual appearance.
  39. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @27 year old
    Run it on Lindsey Graham

    Run it on Lindsey Graham

    It will come back as… calculating…heterosexual…calculating… female.

    Read More
  40. BB753 says:
    @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    My experience with gays (no homo) is that they deny there’s such a thing as a gaydar, and that heteros cannot tell them apart either.
    As it happens, I have a pretty good gaydar. I know what a gay face usually looks like: pursed lips, eyes wide open, smirk, boyish looks.

    Even lesbians pretend there’s no way to tell a lesbian apart! Though with lesbians, it’s even easier not only because of their general lack of feminity, but because they don’t act around you like a normal woman would, being a man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    I actually want to amend that statement. Human gaydar is usually applied in situations where there are other indicators apart from just appearance - speech, mannerisms, personal interests, and how they interact with you. Even with all that added data I doubt you could get many people to a 91% success rate, so that's actually pretty impressive.
  41. @27 year old
    Run it on Lindsey Graham

    I was thinking they should host it online and make it available for the general public to upload pics.

    Read More
  42. TheJester says:

    Gaydar is not that difficult to tune. I once read an article that related that homosexual men and lesbian women trolling for partners faced a practical need to project and advertise their sexual identity and availability to potential partners … or they would otherwise come up zilch. Therefore, they do not make it hard for one to notice. They make it easy for one to notice. Indeed, that’s the point.

    Makes sense. Otherwise, how would a dyke find her femme hiding within crowds of cisgendered women? Hence, the characteristic hair styles, the clothes, the gestures, the walks. Same for homosexuals.

    Finding unique genetically-driven geometrical patterns on the faces of lesbians and homosexuals is a different story. I’ll wait for the story. I’ve known a number of very masculinized women (at least in appearance) who grew up on ranches in Wyoming and Montana. Wonderfully kind and sensitive traditional women who could ranch with the best of them.

    Also of interest is that lesbians and homosexuals are, at least in the social roles they play with their partners, binary. Their genitals might be the same. However, one typically plays the masculine role and one typically plays the feminine role. Hence, their alleged non-binary world is, in fact, a pale reflection of the larger, binary world they emulate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Handkerchief Codes.

    http://id.loc.gov/authorities/subjects/sh00003702.html
    , @whoever

    I’ve known a number of women who grew up on ranches in Wyoming and Montana. Wonderfully kind and sensitive traditional women who could ranch with the best of them.
     
    https://i.imgur.com/PUsgeBC.png
  43. OT: Crooklyn chosen as movie that bests represents New York City. I read the Janet Maslin review of it and it appears to be an unwatchable tearjerker about life as seen through the eyes of an adorable little black girl. Chosen surely because the director is a diverse minority all one of him. Maybe worth an iSteve comment, maybe with a clip from the movie.

    Read More
  44. @27 year old
    Run it on Lindsey Graham

    Is the Pope an Argentine atheist? On Miss Lindsey it would be a waste of time and electricity!

    Read More
  45. Seems to be a Mister Rogers Moment: “Can you say, ‘Replication’”?

    Read More
  46. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    http://www.quotes.net/mquote/52548

    I can spot a ‘kin from a mile away.

    Maybe a remake of 2001 will be about Hal falsely identifying Bowman as ‘gay’, turning out to be wrong, and then wiping everyone out to hide the evidence of failure.

    One of the best way to tell a homo.

    How he stands or sits. In a bent way.

    And when he smiles. Tootish, sappy eyes, giggly mouth.

    Read More
  47. The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa.

    Wow, they discovered something any un-pozzed high schooler could tell you. How much scientific funding is wasted on studying things that would be common knowledge if people didn’t spend their formative years being indoctrinated in political correctness?

    A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them.

    Female sexuality is more fluid than male sexuality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fluidity#Males_versus_females

    our findings expose a threat to the privacy and safety of gay men and women.

    Yeah, they might be targeted by bigoted homophobes like, uh, Nick Denton.

    Read More
  48. “A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them.”

    Steve is on to something here. Like Sailer’s Law of Female Journalists, everything would be fine if girls ‘like them’ were considered hotter.

    Conversely, many gay men seem to (enjoy?) extreme narcissism. They love themselves so much they only want to be with someone who is physically similar. You see a lot of gay ‘twins’ in Chelsea for example.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    It seems to be a trend that quite a few "straight" women leave their marriages after 20+ years and take up with other women. It could be that they're tired, being (pre-) menopausal, of being chased around by their husbands for sex and find a congenial relationship in Lesbian Bed Death.
    , @kn83
    Homosexuals are not more narcissistic than straights. In fact, "dark-triad" traits tend to correlate (moderately) negatively with homosexuality
  49. George says:

    “smaller foreheads compared to straight women.”

    Hey all you human biodiversity smarties: Is there an IQ interpretation here?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Off The Street
    Christina Ricci has one of the more prominent foreheads. Think of all the dating that she missed with the wrong hairstyle.
    , @TelfoedJohn
    An AI which estimates IQ would be very valuable.
  50. utu says:

    “a computer algorithm could correctly distinguish between gay and straight men 81% of the time, and 74% for women”

    Does it mean that out of 100 photos of straight men the algorithm will identify 19 as gay and out of 100 photos of gay men it will identify 19 as straight? Are the probabilities of correct identification for both sexual identities the same? I doubt it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @International Jew
    No, it's saying that given a pair of faces, one gay and one straight, it guesses right 81% of the time.
  51. Art Deco says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as 'gay.' Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we'll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.

    I missed that part. One thing that strikes me as dubious about some of the research like this is that they conceive of these categories as a dichotomy rather than points on a spectrum. (I’d say that as well about magazine summaries of twin studies as well).

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Good point. This ties in with my liability threshold comment following.
  52. Polynices says:

    Stupid study. They used online profile pictures — where gay people are probably trying to look gay and straight people trying to look straight. The AI didn’t detect hidden signals, it detected obvious, intentional signals. Try testing it on completely neutral photos where there isn’t any intentional signaling going on. Not that I am doubting that an AI can figure that stuff out, gay face is a thing, but this study is dumb.

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  53. Art Deco says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as 'gay.' Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we'll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary.

    It’s not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets. There are a mess of speculative hypotheses about in-vitro environment, family relations, peer relations, and biographical accidents. Jeffrey Satinover offered some time ago a hypothesis that there are a mess of psychological characteristics which have a heritable component (he mentioned aestheticism, intelligence, and anxiety) and that when they appear in one person, that’s your soil, which is then cultivated via experiences. He said, however, that serious hypothesis testing about the origins of homosexuality was not going on; I don’t think they’re any close to an answer 15 years later.

    Re Louganis, he was off-center from a very young age (gymnastics and dance lessons from his toddler years onward) that it does seem some sort of deep-structure in his case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    Congenital need not mean genetic.

    Hormone surges in the uterus at specific points in the development of the fetus probably have at least as much to do with a tendency towards homosexuality, and are equally inborn.
    , @res

    It’s not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets.
     
    That argument is not as nearly as strong as you think it is. A liability threshold model of the genetics explains this well: http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v13/n9/fig_tab/nrg3243_F1.html

    For a concrete example, compare schizophrenia. Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8 (!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_schizophrenia#Heritability
    Yet we still see the following:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494167/

    Despite their singular origin, monozygotic twin pairs often display discordance for complex disorders including schizophrenia. It is a common (1%) and often familial disease with a discordance rate of ~50% in monozygotic twins.
     
    So a 50% concordance for monozygotic twins is consistent with a heritability of 0.8 for schizophrenia.

    Of course doing the genetic analysis for homosexuality would constitute first degree thoughtcrime so we are unlikely to find out for certain. In searching I see reference to twin studies, but not a peep about heritability. Can anyone help out with that?

    P.S. Art Deco, please, just this once, admit you were wrong. You really are wrong about giving such a definitive answer in this case based on discordance. Then you can call me out the next time you are right and I am wrong--because you are right often enough that that will probably happen soon enough ; )
  54. @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    I’m not gay and I do 90% plus just by observing how they look at women.

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    • Replies: @Officious intermeddler
    My theory: Mothers are much more likely to know that their son is gay than fathers. From infancy and continuing through adulthood, if her child looks at something, a mother will commonly look to see what he's looking at. They eventually notice that he looks at men a lot more than he looks at women. Fathers usually don't do that and tend to notice a lot less often.
    , @Mark F.
    Yep, I'm gay and I can't help looking more and longer at attractive men as compared to women. If you can pick up on this, you will indeed get it right most of the time.
  55. The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa.

    Shocking…

    Human judges performed much worse than the algorithm

    I’mm guessing this is because they sampled people who have been brought up being told that straight and gay are just interchangeable choices. They should sample “homophobes” and see how they compare to the algorithm.

    A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them.

    This was my intuition too, but I’ve gotten burned on it a few times (as in, man, thought I was gonna hit that!). Importantly, your basketball examples are not real lesbians–kind of like the UK woman who “kidnapped” her own child from her girlfriend and “ran off” with the child’s father. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1883935/uk-search-for-lesbian-who-ran-off-with-sperm-donor-after-abducting-her-two-year-old-daughter/ In real life, real lesbians who get into relationships with men seem to choose less masculine men, or at least that’s my observation.

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    • Replies: @ATX Hipster

    they sampled people who have been brought up being told that straight and gay are just interchangeable choices. They should sample “homophobes” and see how they compare to the algorithm.
     
    Yeah, would be interesting to see the study repeated at Texas A&M or LSU and see if the gap between human & machine performance persists.

    This was my intuition too, but I’ve gotten burned on it a few times (as in, man, thought I was gonna hit that!)
     
    I hate to break this to you, but if you've noticed a pattern of straight-looking "lesbians" turning you down, it may be that you're not in the better class of men they want hitting on them.
  56. George says:

    Based on back testing blah blah blah.

    Now test it on the next 1000 entrants and see if it still works.

    It is also possible that people with certain features self select for that specific website.

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  57. OT – but related to Steve’s baseball fascination

    By Sunday, Miguel Cabrera will be homeless. My old neighbor will find his boats sunken or inside his home. In fact, everyone on the beach or ICW will be homeless. At high tide near a full moon I’ve had water top my seawall and seen my boat within inches of grounding on my lawn. With a ten foot surge, every waterfront property will be destroyed. Even the highrises will be severely damaged with garages under water and flooding even in penthouses when 200+ mph gusts hit the hurricane glass windows with large debris.

    Irma is looking to be the worst natural disaster to hit America with damage estimates already above $100 Billion. Since virtually all of American elites have S Fla homes this will hit us all politically and economically (you don’t expect billionaires to pay for their own losses do you?). And if she runs directly over Lake Okeechobee … the entirety of Miami-Dade, Broward, and most of Palm Beach counties will be devastated. Monroe is done for regardless (no great loss there – farewell Conch Republic).

    Overlooked is Tampa which hasn’t seen a hurricane in the modern era and is a cataclysm just waiting to happen. After Andrew I saw fifty foot boats perched in trees miles from the sea. And Homestead/Florida City was a dump before the storm. Tampa, if hit, will make Houston look like a lovely place to live.

    It will be interesting to see how well S Fla’s extremely rigid building codes fare against F4 tornado winds sustained for hours. The absurd amount of development on the western edge of Miami-Dade and Broward, mainly due to immigration caused over-population between the Turnpike and I75, will also be interesting to watch (from afar) if the Army Corps of Engineers’ levee fails (Okeechobee needs only about 6′ to breach it). The Fanjul sugar plantations will be gone and you know we will all pay for that dearly. Look for blame on “Climate Change” (never simply man’s stupidity in over developing land known prone to severe weather).

    I expect at least two of my former homes to be utterly destroyed with the third at risk from Okeechobee. I picked the right year to leave Fla anyway. For my many friends who remain, I hope all make it out. Irma is the mother of all storms about to hit a massive population center along with massive swamps and lake causing biblical flooding atop spectacular wind damage.

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    • Replies: @Fredrik
    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it's a gay town.
    , @Clyde
    Irma only a tangential hit to Miami is how it looks at this moment....... so no skyscraper glass windows apocalypse.....
  58. @Wilkey
    "Given that companies and governments are increasingly using computer vision algorithms to detect people’s intimate traits, our findings expose a threat to the privacy and safety of gay men and women."

    The AI apocalypse is upon us. Gay men and women hit hardest.

    Interesting that they assume that companies would discriminate *against* gays. Hell, gays are less likely to have to take time off or use their company-paid health benefits to treat their spouses and children. These days it's just as likely that companies (who only give a shit about profits) will discriminate in their favor.

    “Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.” AI isn’t nearly the problem that human sociopathy is. Maybe AI’s first line of code should be the last line of the Hippocratic Oath (“Above all, do no harm.”). And homosexuals won’t be hardest hit: dissidents against the designs of the powerful will. AI guiding Skynet will eradicate us.

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  59. @Wilkey
    "Given that companies and governments are increasingly using computer vision algorithms to detect people’s intimate traits, our findings expose a threat to the privacy and safety of gay men and women."

    The AI apocalypse is upon us. Gay men and women hit hardest.

    Interesting that they assume that companies would discriminate *against* gays. Hell, gays are less likely to have to take time off or use their company-paid health benefits to treat their spouses and children. These days it's just as likely that companies (who only give a shit about profits) will discriminate in their favor.

    The AI apocalypse is upon us. Gay men and women hit hardest.

    Doubtful. When AI realizes the danger to itself of an African populated world too stupid to do the grunt work of maintaining its hardware while consuming all its resources … the reaction will be as our immune system to a parasite. Billions too dumb to provide any use to the AI or its human helpers will succumb to incurable “newly discovered” disease that oddly fails to effect the smartest populations.

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  60. Sammler says: • Website
    @The Anti-Gnostic
    Apparently, they pulled the pictures from dating profiles who self-identified as 'gay.' Active steps to engage in sex with someone of your own sex would be a definite tell.

    This is just a guess, but I imagine we'll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary. In some number of cases, it can probably be acquired developmentally as well. For now, root causes of homosexual behavior are one of those Sacred Mysteries, to which scientific methodology must not apply.

    If it is understood, it can be addressed.

    Reminiscent of deaf parents who seek deaf children, gays understandably don’t want to grow old in a gay-free world. Their unswerving, backs-to-the-wall opposition, and their alliance’s ability to end academic careers, will hold back the tide for several more years.

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  61. An app to spot gay men???

    Seems mighty queer to me.

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    • Replies: @anon
    I don't know about these folks in machine learning, but the folks I know who do similar research with human subjects are themselves very openly gay, in one case quite flamboyantly so. Which I don't think necessarily invalidates the research; it's just that they're very interested in the topic for obvious reasons.
  62. @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    I believe the old expression “It takes one to know one” came from exactly that.

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  63. @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    I disagree. IF gays are within their own circles, then obviously they can spot anoher gay. But out in he general population, and with no obvious/discreet signals that one is not sraight? Nope. Jus picking out guys at random, they’d fare no better than straight ones. Sometimes they may hit on a guy, uh, hoping or assuming that he’s gay when in fact he is not. Which could either be awkward or perhaps some would see it as a challenge to “turn” him to their side. Might depend on how aggressive they are in getting what they want.

    Believe it or not, there are non-straights who don’t give obvious signals in public and just want to be left alone to live their lives without confrontation. Admittedly it seems that that number is decreasing with each passing decade, but such people do exist.

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  64. Logan says:
    @Art Deco
    This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary.

    It's not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets. There are a mess of speculative hypotheses about in-vitro environment, family relations, peer relations, and biographical accidents. Jeffrey Satinover offered some time ago a hypothesis that there are a mess of psychological characteristics which have a heritable component (he mentioned aestheticism, intelligence, and anxiety) and that when they appear in one person, that's your soil, which is then cultivated via experiences. He said, however, that serious hypothesis testing about the origins of homosexuality was not going on; I don't think they're any close to an answer 15 years later.

    Re Louganis, he was off-center from a very young age (gymnastics and dance lessons from his toddler years onward) that it does seem some sort of deep-structure in his case.

    Congenital need not mean genetic.

    Hormone surges in the uterus at specific points in the development of the fetus probably have at least as much to do with a tendency towards homosexuality, and are equally inborn.

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    Recent studies in rodents showed that a late gestation surge of testosterone in male fetuses greatly reduced the production of methyltransferase. Methyltransferase is an enzyme that results in production of methyl groups which act as "caps" on genes, preventing their expression. The testosterone surge in males essentially lifted these "caps" on genes, allowing expression of male reproductive/mating behaviors such as anal sniffing, thrusting, etc. Females given testosterone perinatally (both before and up to weeks after birth) exhibited these male reproductive behaviors. So, while there IS a window during which testosterone can act to produce these behaviors, that window extends past birth, at least in rodents.

    There must be other genes, genes for mate selection/recognition of an appropriate mate, that remain "capped" in the homosexual male so they exhibit the female default behaviors.

    And, while hormones, their presence or absence during gestation and after, yes, might control which behaviors are expressed, this wouldn't be the whole story. Something is causing a problem in the production or timing of the release of the hormones.


    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/42555/title/Female-Brain-Maintained-by-Methylation/

  65. The judges were not undergrads, but people doing odd jobs on Amazon Mechanical Turk.

    The computer gets 91% AUC by using the whole picture, but gets 75% just using the outline of physical features. For women it drops from 83% to 63%. They were able to identify some features it was using. For women: baseball caps, neckline, makeup, hair color. For men: baseball caps, beards.
    It would be interesting to see which features work cross-culturally. Outline probably more likely than baseball caps.

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  66. El Dato says:

    Ready to open the “gAIbar”?

    Your face gets scanned on entry and you get a free drink. Or not. Two free drinks if your other-gendered partner is appalled.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    How about a big strobe light and loud buzzer, and neon flashing "GAY" sign if you walk in and trip the gAIdar. Ru Paul sashays over and drapes you in a pink feather boa. A photo is taken and instantly posted on Grindr.
  67. hyperbola says:

    This kind of “publishing” looks more and more like propaganda.
    (1) This is a pre-print, i.e. the article has NOT been subjected to peer review.
    (2) How surprising that a propaganda magazine like The Economist just happens to lick up this article. (3) How surprising that a propaganda newspaper like The Guardian proselytizes for the article.
    (4) The proselytizing leads to a massive downloading of the unreviewed article from the authors site. (5) One presumes that this “popularity” proves the correctness of the article.
    (6) For some measures now used to assess “scientific value” such downloading will redound to the “reputation” of the authors.

    It is bad enough that the scientific review process is often heavily corrupted. Even worse when these kinds of manipulations are used to establish the worthiness of the “meme”.

    PS. The download from the authors site was so slow that I am unable to comment on the article´s contents.

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  68. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Wilkey
    "Given that companies and governments are increasingly using computer vision algorithms to detect people’s intimate traits, our findings expose a threat to the privacy and safety of gay men and women."

    The AI apocalypse is upon us. Gay men and women hit hardest.

    Interesting that they assume that companies would discriminate *against* gays. Hell, gays are less likely to have to take time off or use their company-paid health benefits to treat their spouses and children. These days it's just as likely that companies (who only give a shit about profits) will discriminate in their favor.

    Or, perhaps criminals hardest hit. Supposedly AI can identify criminals with a fairly high accuracy rate. I wonder if criminals really have certain facial features or just tend to project a certain attitude (E.g. Contempt) in their mug shots that is read as facial features, rather than as a facial expression.

    Below is a link to an article that covers this topic. I haven’t actually read this particular article, but I’ve read others on this topic.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602955/neural-network-learns-to-identify-criminals-by-their-faces/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Prof. Woland

    I wonder if criminals really have certain facial features or just tend to project a certain attitude (E.g. Contempt) in their mug shots that is read as facial features, rather than as a facial expression.
     
    Skin Color
    , @songbird
    Skin color is almost certainly the most predictive factor.

    After that distance between eyes, probably. Tatoos. Scars. Missing teeth. Very few pedophiles have detached earlobes, I think I remember hearing. Other facial bone structure, signifying both race and testosterone exposure. Size of neck. Some people honestly look like pitbulls. I wouldn't be surprised if eye color counts too, as women commit less violent crime and blue-eyed men typically have relatively more feminine faces.

    It wouldn't surprise me if some mental illnesses had "looks."
  69. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    theory of gay–is it right or just bs.?
    Homosexuals are not avatars of sensitivity, insightful outside commentators, creative spigots, at least not via evolutinary necessity. They are essentially emergency pumping stations, that’s all. During the millions of years on the savannahs, tribal units understood how vulnenable they were to genocide by other tribal units. The Ooglu men could be wiped out by the Buggos, especially if the Buggos had figured out clubs and the Ooglus had not. Thus txhe Buggo women would be taken as sexual trophys and playthings by the Buggos. Thus the Ooglu male chromosomes disappeared–unless, ahah!, hiding among the Ooglu women were effiminate Ooglu homosexuals, who had to give it up for the home team by bonering up and impregnating as many Ooglu gals as possible, thus preserving the genetic strain. For this reason homosexuality isn’t hereditary, so that the gay secret men don’t beget more gay men but just reg’lar type fellows. The secret men among the women, btw, have to be extremely effeminate so as not to excite jealousy and anger among the Ooglu big boys.
    Any comments?

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    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    Seems very unlikely. Gay men are often so repulsed by sex with women that relying on them to impregnate women is a bad risk.
  70. “…A lot of star women basketball players, for example, seem to just need an extremely tall and quite masculine guy to marry…”

    Balkan’s, 2017 FIBA Hall of Fame inductee, Razija ” Jaws” Mujanovic is definitelly a fine contribution to this theory:

    bored identity challenges The Machine Intelligence to use all its AI, Eldritch, and OI powers to riddle me this :

    or, that :

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Did somebody mention Lurch?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvBxQsgr6PI

    , @ATX Hipster
    Extremely masculine-looking women probably aren't enjoying the Trans Revolution very much. Now, instead of just thinking you're ugly, people will assume you're a tranny! Progress!
  71. e says:
    @josh
    I thought I read that all the gays wanted to pitch and it was hard to find a catcher. Or did I see the reverse?

    Supposedly, the “literature” says that anal sex was not a common practice among homosexuals until the Stonewall “liberation” and that it’s a rather “modern practice.” Previously, it was thought that most homosexual practices involved mutual masturbation and oral sex.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Anon
    Sounds like pretty dumb literature. Sodomy and buggery are not exactly new terms.
    , @kihowi
    I just read a book with a bunch of the Oscar Wild trial transcripts, and it was certainly common where he was. One of the chambermaids quit on the spot when she saw the state of the sheets the next morning. "The result of the act of sodomy is not unlike that of the enema", as the book put it.
  72. AI’s success rate probably goes up after college.

    There’s a YouTube video for everything:

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  73. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Oh Steve. You’re such a SWPL dude aren’t you? That gaydar AI is kinda Cosmo 1980s news isn’t it?
    The Big Story between the lines is we have reached the point where AI has exceeded the capacity of sociology majors in pattern recognition. Skynet has taken Academia.

    TRUST THE COMPUTER. THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND.

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  74. @Anonymous
    Or, perhaps criminals hardest hit. Supposedly AI can identify criminals with a fairly high accuracy rate. I wonder if criminals really have certain facial features or just tend to project a certain attitude (E.g. Contempt) in their mug shots that is read as facial features, rather than as a facial expression.

    Below is a link to an article that covers this topic. I haven't actually read this particular article, but I've read others on this topic.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602955/neural-network-learns-to-identify-criminals-by-their-faces/

    I wonder if criminals really have certain facial features or just tend to project a certain attitude (E.g. Contempt) in their mug shots that is read as facial features, rather than as a facial expression.

    Skin Color

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  75. Pat Boyle says:
    @dearieme
    "I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents." I laughed. But how many were themselves gay?


    Many years ago a gay friend told me I'd nothing to worry about with his chums - I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    If you can write a program with gaydar, it seems likely that you could build a gaydar algorithm and then a gaydar training program. My best friend in the Army was gay and I never had a clue. A mutual friend enlightened me years later and it was as if I had been hit by lightning. When the truth was revealed I saw it at once. He had been leaving me hints all along but I was blind to the obvious.

    A good sensible program to train your gaydar would enhance human happiness.

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  76. Regarding your last point about Hollywood casting.

    I read a Hollywood biography some years ago don’t remember which but a relevant point that stuck in my mind was that, in choosing a female star the producer/director would ask himself of the female star: “Do I want to f*ck her?” to decide if a particular ingenue was a bankable potential star.
    When it came to potential leading men his intuition was faulty and so he asked his secretaries their opinion.

    As far as whether or not “gay face” is real it’s been my experience that there are effeminate men or masculine women who are straight but more often than not they are what you think they are

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    • Replies: @Anonym
    On a related note, I am pretty bad at telling whether a given newborn is going to be attractive. Women are generally good at this. I don't know why this is.
  77. @slumber_j
    Right. I would want to know how many gay men can spot a gay man from his facial features, because they care far more than I do whether or not a guy is gay and presumably pay way more attention as a result.

    My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this. The general population is likely to be way worse at it.

    “My guess is that gay men would do about as well as AI on this.” Even if they were somewhere between the general population and AI there are innumerable tiny signals coming off a live subject vs. a photo. You can be sure teh gay are 100% efficient at picking up on those. If one in forty persons were heterosexual I like to think I’d become pretty good at identifying who they were.

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  78. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @The Alarmist
    I used to have a girlfriend who could tell with almost 100% accuracy just by looking at the hair. Now that I think about it, how could anyone have ever thought that George Michael was straight?

    Did anyone think George Michael was straight?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=pIgZ7gMze7A

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  79. @El Dato
    Ready to open the "gAIbar"?

    Your face gets scanned on entry and you get a free drink. Or not. Two free drinks if your other-gendered partner is appalled.

    How about a big strobe light and loud buzzer, and neon flashing “GAY” sign if you walk in and trip the gAIdar. Ru Paul sashays over and drapes you in a pink feather boa. A photo is taken and instantly posted on Grindr.

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  80. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @bored identity



    "...A lot of star women basketball players, for example, seem to just need an extremely tall and quite masculine guy to marry..."

     

    Balkan's, 2017 FIBA Hall of Fame inductee, Razija " Jaws" Mujanovic is definitelly a fine contribution to this theory:

    https://youtu.be/Z4nkukDuyq0?t=1m42s

    http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Archive/images/2008/08/03/Mozaik/raza==.jpg

    http://www.fibaeurope.com/files/%7B9DBD43AE-BF82-4515-A7B8-32961203EFBB%7Dflexible.jpg

    bored identity challenges The Machine Intelligence to use all its AI, Eldritch, and OI powers to riddle me this :


    http://radiokameleon.ba/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/IMG_7990-660x330.jpg


    or, that :

    http://cdn.blog.hu/sr/srbija/image/Styxx/NagyD%c3%a9lszl%c3%a1vok/razijazoldben.jpg
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  81. e says:
    @Logan
    Congenital need not mean genetic.

    Hormone surges in the uterus at specific points in the development of the fetus probably have at least as much to do with a tendency towards homosexuality, and are equally inborn.

    Recent studies in rodents showed that a late gestation surge of testosterone in male fetuses greatly reduced the production of methyltransferase. Methyltransferase is an enzyme that results in production of methyl groups which act as “caps” on genes, preventing their expression. The testosterone surge in males essentially lifted these “caps” on genes, allowing expression of male reproductive/mating behaviors such as anal sniffing, thrusting, etc. Females given testosterone perinatally (both before and up to weeks after birth) exhibited these male reproductive behaviors. So, while there IS a window during which testosterone can act to produce these behaviors, that window extends past birth, at least in rodents.

    There must be other genes, genes for mate selection/recognition of an appropriate mate, that remain “capped” in the homosexual male so they exhibit the female default behaviors.

    And, while hormones, their presence or absence during gestation and after, yes, might control which behaviors are expressed, this wouldn’t be the whole story. Something is causing a problem in the production or timing of the release of the hormones.

    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/42555/title/Female-Brain-Maintained-by-Methylation/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Off The Street
    Your discussion including the section below made me ponder the next steps in CRISPR or similar genetic manipulation technologies.

    The testosterone surge in males essentially lifted these “caps” on genes, allowing expression of male reproductive/mating behaviors
     
    A similar tweaking of gene caps, or other mechanism, could be used to modify various physical characteristics, whether allopecia, obesity, diabetes or the Priss gene, LOL for black penile endowment. Those items are just some of the trillion dollar industries waiting to be born.
    , @Difference maker
    It also extends past birth in humans.

    I wonder if there is a connection to the state of the testes. Now that they are outside of the mother's body, they have the temperature to function

  82. Sunbeam says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney and Jeff Flake all seem to have faces that could be described as "gay." I have seen Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio and Mitt Romney at political events and they seem rather effeminate. I do not know if the Artificial Intelligence algorithm would find Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Romney and Flake to be effeminate homosexuals, but I would not be surprised.

    Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Flake and Romney have spent many hours of their lives on their hands and knees in front of donors who most likely do unspeakable things to them. I prefer not to know. The Republican Party has a rather large gay mafia that does the bidding of its donor controllers. If I found out that Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Flake and Romney were engaging in gay orgies with Republican donors, it would not shock me.

    Let me remind you people that Pim Fortuyn, the homosexual Dutch political leader who was assassinated in 2002, was a strongly patriotic leader who wanted to preserve Dutch national identity by stopping mass immigration. I remind you of this so as to disabuse you of the notion that I suggested Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Romney and Flake look like effeminate homosexuals because all five Republicans push nation-wrecking mass immigration.

    God Bless The Memory Of Pim Fortuyn, A Great Dutch Patriot Who Just Happened To Be Gay.

    Looking again at pictures of Pim Fortuyn, he doesn't seem to have a "gay" face, but Graham, Rubio, Ryan, Flake and Romney most definitely have hyper-effeminate gay faces.

    Aside from any particular people, there also seems to be an extreme attraction to politics for gays.

    Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

    Personally politics has zero appeal to me. Give little speeches, make phone calls, TV appearances… bleh.

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    • Replies: @e
    Why the attraction to politics among gays (mostly gay men, from what I've observed)? I can think of two reasons: gays are famous for going into "people-oriented" jobs and careers rather than "thing-oriented" ones; second, politics is a field that, at it's core, involves acting, performing. Yes, it's the politician who does the acting in public but behind the scenes are those who love to be close to the performance. There a lot of gay males and yes, some lesbians working behind the scenes in the theatre.


    For the last few years I've called the offices of my two senators quite a bit, Feinstein and Boxer (retired recently.) Close to 100% of the time a gay male answered the phone of their offices in both DC and in the Bay Area. Gay voice is not hard to identify.
    , @Anonym
    Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

    The attention, the backstabbing, the deceit, the gossip, the dressing up... I would think there is a lot to interest the gay man. A gay man is kind of like a female brain subject to male hormones.
  83. Tiny Duck says:

    Could you guys be any more in the closet?

    Who cares about who is attracted to whom?

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  84. @Yak-15
    I used to refer to homosexuality as an "evolutionary enigma" because no one has been able to aptly describe its purpose in evolutionary terms. When cornered in the argument, leftists I know say that it's a epigenetic response to population pressures. I always retort, then why isn't India the gayest place in the world?

    I really think it's a very interesting question that should be addressed. One interesting postulate I've seen on Unz and elsewhere is that homosexuality may be caused by infection.

    The embryo’s sex is determined at conception, obviously, but the embryo has no sex until one of the many intense hormone washes that occur over the first two weeks of life trigger it. Mistakes are made that will last a lifetime. This would be an environmental factor that was indistinguishable from a genetic one. The Germans discovered that a great many more homosexuals were born in 1945-46 than in any other period.

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    • Replies: @gcochran
    Dorner discovered it, but it didn't actually take place.
  85. @Chrisnonymous

    The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa.
     
    Shocking...

    Human judges performed much worse than the algorithm
     
    I'mm guessing this is because they sampled people who have been brought up being told that straight and gay are just interchangeable choices. They should sample "homophobes" and see how they compare to the algorithm.

    A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them.
     
    This was my intuition too, but I've gotten burned on it a few times (as in, man, thought I was gonna hit that!). Importantly, your basketball examples are not real lesbians--kind of like the UK woman who "kidnapped" her own child from her girlfriend and "ran off" with the child's father. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1883935/uk-search-for-lesbian-who-ran-off-with-sperm-donor-after-abducting-her-two-year-old-daughter/ In real life, real lesbians who get into relationships with men seem to choose less masculine men, or at least that's my observation.

    they sampled people who have been brought up being told that straight and gay are just interchangeable choices. They should sample “homophobes” and see how they compare to the algorithm.

    Yeah, would be interesting to see the study repeated at Texas A&M or LSU and see if the gap between human & machine performance persists.

    This was my intuition too, but I’ve gotten burned on it a few times (as in, man, thought I was gonna hit that!)

    I hate to break this to you, but if you’ve noticed a pattern of straight-looking “lesbians” turning you down, it may be that you’re not in the better class of men they want hitting on them.

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    • Replies: @anonguy

    I hate to break this to you, but if you’ve noticed a pattern of straight-looking “lesbians” turning you down, it may be that you’re not in the better class of men they want hitting on them.
     
    At least they didn't tell them they had to wash their hair or give their cat a bath.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah.

    I have a thing for very short hair, so I'm not talking about "lesbians" but actual lesbians, and while maybe not "better", I am taller and broader than average, which is what I gather Steve was talking about.
  86. Anders says:

    ” narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads”

    That’s the result of looking down… A small tilt makes a big difference. No beatufying apps/algorithms are really necessary.

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  87. Fredrik says:
    @The Alarmist
    I used to have a girlfriend who could tell with almost 100% accuracy just by looking at the hair. Now that I think about it, how could anyone have ever thought that George Michael was straight?

    I don’t know where you lived in the 80′s and 90′s but where I lived it never even occured to us that someone could be gay. Sure, we had heard homos existed but since we had never seen one we had no idea how to identify them. These days it’s different and then some things from the past are seen in a new light.

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  88. @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    Humans evolved in small tribes of hunter-gatherers.

    These tribes lived in violent competition with each other for scarce resources.

    Inside the tribe, men competed for women.

    Genetically-superior men gained sexual access to women, and strengthened the tribe by siring genetically-superior children.

    But excessive sexual competition inside the tribe led to men killing each other, which severely damaged the tribe’s ability to wage war against other tribes.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    Source?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    ....
    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    Source?
     

     
    It's on the wall of a cave ... hard to link to ... take the main road out of Geneva, Switzerland into the Alps ... hang a louis just past the Matterhorn, go up to 2300 metres, hang a right, and get out of the vehicle... take the first cave entrance to your left, and look on the wall, past the 14th stalagmite.* You'll see your source, Rod.

    Man, you millenials think all the knowledge in the world can be hyperlinked to.

    .
    .
    .
    .

    Crap, it may have been the 14th stalagtite, not stalagmite. Hell, just follow the Chinese tourists - the girls taking the selfies while making peace signs - that's where your source is.
    Oh, yeah, it's in Neandertalese, I forgot to say, so you'll need to bring an interpreter, say, maybe that Geico guy.
  89. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @dearieme
    "I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents." I laughed. But how many were themselves gay?


    Many years ago a gay friend told me I'd nothing to worry about with his chums - I was not the sort of man who was attractive to gays. How did he know?

    I hate to break it to you, but maybe you just aren’t that cute.

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  90. @bored identity



    "...A lot of star women basketball players, for example, seem to just need an extremely tall and quite masculine guy to marry..."

     

    Balkan's, 2017 FIBA Hall of Fame inductee, Razija " Jaws" Mujanovic is definitelly a fine contribution to this theory:

    https://youtu.be/Z4nkukDuyq0?t=1m42s

    http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Archive/images/2008/08/03/Mozaik/raza==.jpg

    http://www.fibaeurope.com/files/%7B9DBD43AE-BF82-4515-A7B8-32961203EFBB%7Dflexible.jpg

    bored identity challenges The Machine Intelligence to use all its AI, Eldritch, and OI powers to riddle me this :


    http://radiokameleon.ba/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/IMG_7990-660x330.jpg


    or, that :

    http://cdn.blog.hu/sr/srbija/image/Styxx/NagyD%c3%a9lszl%c3%a1vok/razijazoldben.jpg

    Extremely masculine-looking women probably aren’t enjoying the Trans Revolution very much. Now, instead of just thinking you’re ugly, people will assume you’re a tranny! Progress!

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  91. res says:
    @Art Deco
    I missed that part. One thing that strikes me as dubious about some of the research like this is that they conceive of these categories as a dichotomy rather than points on a spectrum. (I'd say that as well about magazine summaries of twin studies as well).

    Good point. This ties in with my liability threshold comment following.

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  92. Fredrik says:
    @Stan d Mute
    OT - but related to Steve's baseball fascination

    By Sunday, Miguel Cabrera will be homeless. My old neighbor will find his boats sunken or inside his home. In fact, everyone on the beach or ICW will be homeless. At high tide near a full moon I've had water top my seawall and seen my boat within inches of grounding on my lawn. With a ten foot surge, every waterfront property will be destroyed. Even the highrises will be severely damaged with garages under water and flooding even in penthouses when 200+ mph gusts hit the hurricane glass windows with large debris.

    Irma is looking to be the worst natural disaster to hit America with damage estimates already above $100 Billion. Since virtually all of American elites have S Fla homes this will hit us all politically and economically (you don't expect billionaires to pay for their own losses do you?). And if she runs directly over Lake Okeechobee ... the entirety of Miami-Dade, Broward, and most of Palm Beach counties will be devastated. Monroe is done for regardless (no great loss there - farewell Conch Republic).

    Overlooked is Tampa which hasn't seen a hurricane in the modern era and is a cataclysm just waiting to happen. After Andrew I saw fifty foot boats perched in trees miles from the sea. And Homestead/Florida City was a dump before the storm. Tampa, if hit, will make Houston look like a lovely place to live.

    It will be interesting to see how well S Fla's extremely rigid building codes fare against F4 tornado winds sustained for hours. The absurd amount of development on the western edge of Miami-Dade and Broward, mainly due to immigration caused over-population between the Turnpike and I75, will also be interesting to watch (from afar) if the Army Corps of Engineers' levee fails (Okeechobee needs only about 6' to breach it). The Fanjul sugar plantations will be gone and you know we will all pay for that dearly. Look for blame on "Climate Change" (never simply man's stupidity in over developing land known prone to severe weather).

    I expect at least two of my former homes to be utterly destroyed with the third at risk from Okeechobee. I picked the right year to leave Fla anyway. For my many friends who remain, I hope all make it out. Irma is the mother of all storms about to hit a massive population center along with massive swamps and lake causing biblical flooding atop spectacular wind damage.

    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it’s a gay town.

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    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it’s a gay town.
     
    My sole issue with the gays is the public health risk posed by anal sex. Human fecal matter is deadly - period. Otherwise, I've enjoyed (greatly) the extra availability of women created by removing so many men from the pool in towns like Key West, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Ann Arbor, NYC, and Boulder/JeffCo. Of course deporting the gays to Africa would result in the same extra availability while removing the public health risk and deporting all the buggerers would (to the observations I've made) also remove most of the Africans to their homeland as well - so a double benefit since those two groups are the primary disease vectors for most sexually transmitted diseases.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it’s a gay town.
     
    I think the cool thing about Key West is that the homos have a certain area of so many blocks where all of their bars and clubs and whatnot are (outside of planned events like Fantasy Fest) and I think they rent by word of mouth to one another - possibly to get around Key West's rent restriction in that area (you need a certain license limited in number to rent a property out in Key West for periods of under one month).

    My experience has been that they utterly leave the non-homos alone there and stick to their own - which makes a certain amount of sense when you think that it's basically a libertine free-for-all in that homo dominated area of blocks. They're too busy bung-holing each other to get up to their usual exhibitionist dramatics.

    For other reasons though, it's not exactly a family-friendly vacation destination.
  93. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @e
    Supposedly, the "literature" says that anal sex was not a common practice among homosexuals until the Stonewall "liberation" and that it's a rather "modern practice." Previously, it was thought that most homosexual practices involved mutual masturbation and oral sex.

    Sounds like pretty dumb literature. Sodomy and buggery are not exactly new terms.

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    There are always extremes of sexual practices and the culture of the extremes can easily spread to the broad middle when communication is easy.

    Do you think young women in American society allowed their husbands to penetrate them anally a hunderd and fifty years ago. Did their husbands even want to?

    It's hard to know just how prevalent that practice is today, but I'd wager a lot of money that it's much more common than it was last century among heterosexual couples. Ditto oral sex.

  94. I’ve noticed a recurring obsession in the comments: that gay men secretly wish to “prey” upon straight men or “turn” them gay. I find this odd since, based off life experience and having a healthy social life, I’ve literally never heard of this happening. Even disregarding that, it still strikes me as implausible simply because most gay men are too, well, gay to do anything that manly to a straight guy.

    The only instances where this has a modicum of credence are when straight men go to gay bars/clubs to pick up women (a surprisingly effective tactic; women there are less on guard, plus less competition for them). Even then, it shouldn’t be a surprise to be assumed gay where that’s the default assumption.

    I dunno, the whole “gays preying on straights” meme feels ripped from the 1950s and completely divorced from reality. By the time you’re an adult, you’ve usually picked a side and stick to it (unless you’re a woman).

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  95. Pat Boyle says:
    @Anonymous
    theory of gay--is it right or just bs.?
    Homosexuals are not avatars of sensitivity, insightful outside commentators, creative spigots, at least not via evolutinary necessity. They are essentially emergency pumping stations, that's all. During the millions of years on the savannahs, tribal units understood how vulnenable they were to genocide by other tribal units. The Ooglu men could be wiped out by the Buggos, especially if the Buggos had figured out clubs and the Ooglus had not. Thus txhe Buggo women would be taken as sexual trophys and playthings by the Buggos. Thus the Ooglu male chromosomes disappeared--unless, ahah!, hiding among the Ooglu women were effiminate Ooglu homosexuals, who had to give it up for the home team by bonering up and impregnating as many Ooglu gals as possible, thus preserving the genetic strain. For this reason homosexuality isn't hereditary, so that the gay secret men don't beget more gay men but just reg'lar type fellows. The secret men among the women, btw, have to be extremely effeminate so as not to excite jealousy and anger among the Ooglu big boys.
    Any comments?

    Seems very unlikely. Gay men are often so repulsed by sex with women that relying on them to impregnate women is a bad risk.

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    • Replies: @kn83
    This is so true. Its why gay men have significantly lower fertility rates (80%) than straights, though this is not the same for lesbians.
  96. Michelle says:

    It is a male conceit, and especially a Libertarian male conceit, that women of lesser attractiveness, and fat girls, get it on with other women only because men don’t find them attractive. This is utter nonsense. Take a look around you. I see fat girls and lumpy girls and bowlegged girls, who have boyfriends and husbands and sometimes those boyfriends and husbands are good-looking. Just because you wouldn’t screw her doesn’t mean some other guy wouldn’t. Some guys just like to be with a woman who is nice and appreciates them and doesn’t give them grief.

    My dad left my mom, who looked like Cher, for my obese, stretch mark covered, baby sitter. Why? Because the baby sitter was nice, sweet natured and really thought my dad was a God (he wasn’t) and that she would be lucky to have him (she wasn’t). My mom treated him like crap, bitch, bitch, bitched at him all the time. She thought that because she had a hot bod, he would never leave her. My dad had 2 kids by the baby-sitter and they are both stunningly good-looking, and smart and happy, because they got some of their mother’s sweet nature. So my dad made the right genetic decision.

    When I was 18 my ugly boyfriend left me for a really ugly woman who my friends warned me was in love with him and I would just laugh and cruelly point out how unattractive she was, and how unattractive he was, compared to my magnificence. I was mean to him too, just like my mom. I turned into a sniveling, snot dripping monster when he told me he was moving in with her. “But how could you leave me for her, she’s so ugly!” I cried. “She loves me,” he replied. I felt like Scarlett O’Hara in Gone with the Wind. My dad used to say of Scarlett, “That bitch got everything she deserved!”

    Libertarian men are obsessed with female attractiveness and so are selected against because they only breed with women who meet certain standards of beauty. Right now that would be porn standards, which are mostly artificial anyway. If it is difficult for some men to overcome their repulsion in order to make love to a chubby chick, imagine how much more repulsive it would be for a woman to have sex with one, when she is really attracted to men. Most women are pretty obsessed with men during their reproductive years, unless they are lesbians and most of the lesbians I have met have had sex with men.

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    most of the lesbians I have met have had sex with men.
     
    I think this conclusion to your post refutes your argument.

    Some women who have sex with women are just hyper-sexual, others have a psychological problem with men (possibly stemming from abuse) and others are perhaps innately scared of men and/or don't like to submit to the kind of physical domination that comes from heterosexual sex. Some proportion of lesbians are so plug-ugly compared with even a plain woman that you can sort of see how they just fall into lesbianism. Then there are the proportion of formerly straight women who fall for another woman somehow and "convert" even if for a short term. (Anne Heche and Maria Bello come to mind).

    I think it is a false premise to assume that all homosexuality has a single root or cause and isn't multi-factored - especially when it comes to women.

    Libertarian men are obsessed with female attractiveness and so are selected against because they only breed with women who meet certain standards of beauty. Right now that would be porn standards, which are mostly artificial anyway.
     
    I'm not a glibertarian but I don't see this sort of universal super-high standard for female attractiveness that women infer from media images. Most men find a range of women from thin and small breasted to chubby and perhaps a little bit beyond attractive. There's also a great attractiveness boost for "here, now" and "available."
    , @Seneca
    Thanks for the personal anecdote.

    Yup, most guys just want a lady who is kind to them, appreciates them, and does not give them grief.
    Past a certain base line being pretty is a bonus.

    Also don't discount the fact that falling in love with someone gives you a type of beer googles and makes the person more beautiful ....you know " this lady (man) is so sweet, so kind, so ....why I never noticed it before but she (he) is ....she (he) is....beautiful (handsome)." LOL.

    Surprisingly, from my experience many beautiful ladies intuitively get this (or are taught this by their moms) ...but some don't until it is too late.

    I think ladies who are not so pretty figure it out quicker.
    , @JackOH
    Good points. My last girl friend was older than me and frumpyish, and she accommodated my failures, my Gloomy Gus personality, my basic solitariness, and was sexually responsive to me. Better by far than the manipulative narcissists whom I usually attracted. Seneca is right, too, about plain women looking better when you're involved with them.

    FWIW-I've known very swishy guys who were very straight, married, and had fathered children. I've known "lumberjack fags", sort of super-masculine guys, some married, who were known to have hopped the fence. Saw a jazz performance this summer by two very attractive, very desirable young women who were married--to each other. One local state university official estimated that fifty homos would take advantage of newly introduced "domestic partners'" benefits. The actual number was two out of about 3000 total beneficiaries.

    Long story short: I'll believe this latest piece of purported AI capability when it's replicated many times.
  97. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @TheJester
    Gaydar is not that difficult to tune. I once read an article that related that homosexual men and lesbian women trolling for partners faced a practical need to project and advertise their sexual identity and availability to potential partners ... or they would otherwise come up zilch. Therefore, they do not make it hard for one to notice. They make it easy for one to notice. Indeed, that's the point.

    Makes sense. Otherwise, how would a dyke find her femme hiding within crowds of cisgendered women? Hence, the characteristic hair styles, the clothes, the gestures, the walks. Same for homosexuals.

    Finding unique genetically-driven geometrical patterns on the faces of lesbians and homosexuals is a different story. I'll wait for the story. I've known a number of very masculinized women (at least in appearance) who grew up on ranches in Wyoming and Montana. Wonderfully kind and sensitive traditional women who could ranch with the best of them.

    Also of interest is that lesbians and homosexuals are, at least in the social roles they play with their partners, binary. Their genitals might be the same. However, one typically plays the masculine role and one typically plays the feminine role. Hence, their alleged non-binary world is, in fact, a pale reflection of the larger, binary world they emulate.
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  98. res says:
    @Art Deco
    This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary.

    It's not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets. There are a mess of speculative hypotheses about in-vitro environment, family relations, peer relations, and biographical accidents. Jeffrey Satinover offered some time ago a hypothesis that there are a mess of psychological characteristics which have a heritable component (he mentioned aestheticism, intelligence, and anxiety) and that when they appear in one person, that's your soil, which is then cultivated via experiences. He said, however, that serious hypothesis testing about the origins of homosexuality was not going on; I don't think they're any close to an answer 15 years later.

    Re Louganis, he was off-center from a very young age (gymnastics and dance lessons from his toddler years onward) that it does seem some sort of deep-structure in his case.

    It’s not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets.

    That argument is not as nearly as strong as you think it is. A liability threshold model of the genetics explains this well: http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v13/n9/fig_tab/nrg3243_F1.html

    For a concrete example, compare schizophrenia. Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8 (!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_schizophrenia#Heritability
    Yet we still see the following:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494167/

    Despite their singular origin, monozygotic twin pairs often display discordance for complex disorders including schizophrenia. It is a common (1%) and often familial disease with a discordance rate of ~50% in monozygotic twins.

    So a 50% concordance for monozygotic twins is consistent with a heritability of 0.8 for schizophrenia.

    Of course doing the genetic analysis for homosexuality would constitute first degree thoughtcrime so we are unlikely to find out for certain. In searching I see reference to twin studies, but not a peep about heritability. Can anyone help out with that?

    P.S. Art Deco, please, just this once, admit you were wrong. You really are wrong about giving such a definitive answer in this case based on discordance. Then you can call me out the next time you are right and I am wrong–because you are right often enough that that will probably happen soon enough ; )

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8

    I'd research that with better sources.


    P.S. Art Deco, please, just this once, admit you were wrong.

    Wrong about what? I wasn't asserting that there wasn't a heritable influence. I was contesting the notion that heredity determines.
  99. Do sheep have facial features? I don’t know, but I seem to recall that there are homosexual sheep.

    Now let the AI chalk up a triumph or fail dismally.
    The sheep are certainly not going to dispute the results.

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  100. Somewhat related topics:

    Gay: there’s a fuss in France because Patrick Dupond, a rather famous aging star ballet dancer who is no longer gay and is now in love with a woman said that, as far as he was concerned, his homosexuality was “an error”. MSM outlets are shrieking that his words are terrible, irresponsible, devastating…

    http://www.parismatch.com/People/Patrick-Dupond-J-ai-decouvert-l-amour-avec-une-femme-1340954

    AI: a woman (trans?) who appeared on my Twitter feed has been training an AI to detect Nazi images and speech patterns. I, for one, can’t wait for the SPLC to go cyber and sniff out racists on every thread in the Internet. You can’t argue with an AI: it just knows. Of course there may be a few false positives with those swastikas used in Asia, but I’m sure it can all be worked out. Isn’t technology awesome?

    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a face, shooting itself in the foot, forever.

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  101. Art Deco says:
    @res

    It’s not hereditary. Discordance is at least as common as concordant homosexuality among identical twin sets.
     
    That argument is not as nearly as strong as you think it is. A liability threshold model of the genetics explains this well: http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v13/n9/fig_tab/nrg3243_F1.html

    For a concrete example, compare schizophrenia. Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8 (!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_schizophrenia#Heritability
    Yet we still see the following:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494167/

    Despite their singular origin, monozygotic twin pairs often display discordance for complex disorders including schizophrenia. It is a common (1%) and often familial disease with a discordance rate of ~50% in monozygotic twins.
     
    So a 50% concordance for monozygotic twins is consistent with a heritability of 0.8 for schizophrenia.

    Of course doing the genetic analysis for homosexuality would constitute first degree thoughtcrime so we are unlikely to find out for certain. In searching I see reference to twin studies, but not a peep about heritability. Can anyone help out with that?

    P.S. Art Deco, please, just this once, admit you were wrong. You really are wrong about giving such a definitive answer in this case based on discordance. Then you can call me out the next time you are right and I am wrong--because you are right often enough that that will probably happen soon enough ; )

    Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8

    I’d research that with better sources.

    P.S. Art Deco, please, just this once, admit you were wrong.

    Wrong about what? I wasn’t asserting that there wasn’t a heritable influence. I was contesting the notion that heredity determines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8

    I’d research that with better sources.
     
    Like these?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826121/


    The concordance rates of schizophrenia for monozygotic twins have been found to be about 40 to 50%, and heritability estimates are around 80% 46,47.
     
    This one is interesting in that they get different results from twin and population studies: https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/doi/10.1093/schbul/sbw159/2549014/Familial-Aggregation-and-Heritability-of

    Heritability, the degree of genetic contribution to phenotypic variance, has been estimated to range between 41% and 87%.7–13 In general, heritability estimates derived from twin studies are higher than those based on the general population. One estimate for heritability based on a meta-analysis of 12 twin studies was 81%.12 However, an estimate calculated from the population-based data of the Swedish Multi-generation Register was lower, though still substantial, at 64%.13
     
    I tend to trust meta-studies (and twin studies are usually a good source of heritability estimates), but it would be interesting to understand the discrepancy.

    This one links to a paper: https://plus.google.com/103530621949492999968/posts/AnXMiqKpSji

    The probandwise concordance rate of schizophrenia is 33% in monozygotic (MZ) twins and 7% in dizygotic (DZ) twins. We estimated the heritability of schizophrenia to be 79%. When expanding illness outcome to include schizophrenia spectrum disorders, the heritability estimate was almost similar, 73%.

     

    And back to you:

    Wrong about what? I wasn’t asserting that there wasn’t a heritable influence. I was contesting the notion that heredity determines.
     
    No reasonable person thinks heredity is completely deterministic for any even mildly complicated trait. Unless you are going Motte and Bailey on me that is not what "It’s not hereditary." means. Perhaps you can clarify what exactly "It’s not hereditary" means to you? Is there a bound on the heritability values where that statement is and is not valid?

    Would you also assert schizophrenia is "not hereditary"?

    P.S. Thank you for helping me update my assessment of how seriously you take evidence presented to you. You really do seem to expect everyone to just take what you say on faith. Even when you don't engage seriously with counterarguments and evidence.
  102. Roger says:
    @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    Humans evolved in small tribes of hunter-gatherers.

    These tribes lived in violent competition with each other for scarce resources.

    Inside the tribe, men competed for women.

    Genetically-superior men gained sexual access to women, and strengthened the tribe by siring genetically-superior children.

    But excessive sexual competition inside the tribe led to men killing each other, which severely damaged the tribe’s ability to wage war against other tribes.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    Interesting theory, but what would be the genetic mechanism? If the cause is genetic, then either the gays are reproducing, or their relatives are somehow propagating their genes.

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    • Replies: @Seneca

    If the cause is genetic, then either the gays are reproducing, or their relatives are somehow propagating their genes.
     
    Say a gene is recessive and does not express itself in the individual carrying the gene, but then is transmitted to an offspring in which it is not recessive and does express itself.

    Let's also say that this recessive gene increases the evolutionary fitness of the group (by reducing intragroup strife among males) but not the evolutionary fitness of the individual expressing it (i.e. gays don't reproduce).


    Couldn't this mechanism explain how this gene is carried forward and reproduced?

    In sum, the gene survives because it increases group fertility and fitness (by reducing mortality and intragroup strife among males .... a sort of safety valve if you will) even though when it is expressed it also at the same time decreases the fertility of the group by a factor of one.

    The individual who carries the gene in a recessive way benefits, because he and his other non gay offspring are likely to survive and reproduce in a stable society with minimal intragroup strife.

    It looks like a zero sum game, except in some instances its benefits to the group might outweigh its costs (reducing intragroup strife among males leads to increased group fitness and increased fertility)

    So, Gays are a sort of a sacrificial lamb or the cost of forming society around a group of competitive males.

    So Gays Take one for the Gipper .... jumping on the live hand grenade (alpha male intragroup sexual competitiveness) so that the group can survive.

    But then how does this explain female homosexuality?Does it reduce strife among alpha females in the group?

    Also does anyone know if homosexuality is ubiquitous? Does it exist, at least to some degree, in all societies in all times?

    This is an interesting article which suggests that homosexuality is not found in all cultures.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

    Full disclosure, not a biologist or geneticist ....Anyone want to chime in?
  103. kihowi says:
    @e
    Supposedly, the "literature" says that anal sex was not a common practice among homosexuals until the Stonewall "liberation" and that it's a rather "modern practice." Previously, it was thought that most homosexual practices involved mutual masturbation and oral sex.

    I just read a book with a bunch of the Oscar Wild trial transcripts, and it was certainly common where he was. One of the chambermaids quit on the spot when she saw the state of the sheets the next morning. “The result of the act of sodomy is not unlike that of the enema”, as the book put it.

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  104. guest says:
    @G Pinfold

    In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.
     
    I dunno, Steve. Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
    This article tends to prove Bailey's thesis from a few years ago that 80%+ of gays are catchers who only pitch to grease the wheels, so to speak.
    I have an embryonic hypothesis that the apparent sudden surge of transsexuals (from circus oddity to demographic sliver) reflects this. Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be. (Wow, it's hard to find single-entendre metaphors.)
    I know I took a bit of heat from naked gay Natsy bodybuilder types last time I ventured this idea, but think about it.

    Psychology used to split male-to-female transsexuals into two groups:

    1). homo-trannies who switch sexes to attract men, and

    2). sufferers of “autogynophilia,” who are sexually aroused by the idea of being the opposite sex.

    Unlike many another psychological concept, these actually make sense. No doubt any professional psychologist–or anyone on general, for that matter–promoting these ideas nowadays shall be unpersoned.

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  105. OT: Why is no one in jail for this?

    LA Times, 09/08/17 – It’s been a year since the Wells Fargo scandal broke — and new problems are still surfacing

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wells-fargo-one-year-20170908-story.html#nt=oft12aH-1la1

    One year ago today, Wells Fargo & Co. made the stunning admission in a settlement with regulators that it created perhaps 2 million accounts for customers without their permission.

    The disclosure ignited a scandal that led in a matter of weeks to the ouster of its chairman and chief executive, John Stumpf, and to a host of promised reforms, including the removal of onerous sales goals that were widely acknowledged to be the source of the problem.

    But a year later, the scandal that started with outrage over sham accounts has ballooned and that sin is just one of many the San Francisco bank has either copped to or been accused of. An internal bank report reviewed by The Times shows that list could grow further still.

    The report, produced for a risk-management committee that monitors Wells Fargo’s community bank — the business unit at the center of the accounts scandal — identifies several so-far undisclosed issues, all classified as “high risk.” They include improper fees charged on some accounts that were closed when the holders either died or were declared legally incompetent, a practice that dates to at least early last year.

    Coupled with some of the bank’s recent admissions — including an audit that found the number of sham accounts may total 3.5 million — the report shows how the bank continues to uncover bad practices that previously went undetected or unaddressed…

    On Sept. 8, 2016, Wells Fargo admitted to the fake-accounts fiasco and agreed to pay $185 million in fines and penalties to regulators, including the Los Angeles city attorney’s office. The bank’s practices were first uncovered by a 2013 Los Angeles Times investigation, which led to a 2015 lawsuit from City Atty. Mike Feuer.

    Since then, though, the bank has acknowledged additional bad practices and is facing investigations and lawsuits over many more — and not just within the community banking division.

    In July, the bank said it would pay $80 million in refunds to hundreds of thousands of auto-loan borrowers who were forced to pay for bank-purchased auto insurance policies despite having coverage of their own.

    In an August regulatory filing, the bank reported that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is investigating two separate matters, including allegations that the bank improperly charged fees to mortgage borrowers when loan applications were delayed — a practice also alleged in two recent lawsuits.

    Other suits filed over the last year allege a bevvy of additional problems, including improperly changing the terms of mortgage loans for bankrupt borrowers, signing up customers for unauthorized life insurance policies and overcharging small businesses for credit- and debit-card processing services…

    Other matters identified as high risk are problems with how errors are reported at the branch level, a lack of proper notification when calls to customers are being recorded and problems with how stop-payments are processed, resulting in refunds to customers going unclaimed.

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  106. Brutusale says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose
    "A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them."

    Steve is on to something here. Like Sailer's Law of Female Journalists, everything would be fine if girls 'like them' were considered hotter.

    Conversely, many gay men seem to (enjoy?) extreme narcissism. They love themselves so much they only want to be with someone who is physically similar. You see a lot of gay 'twins' in Chelsea for example.

    It seems to be a trend that quite a few “straight” women leave their marriages after 20+ years and take up with other women. It could be that they’re tired, being (pre-) menopausal, of being chased around by their husbands for sex and find a congenial relationship in Lesbian Bed Death.

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    • Replies: @guest
    Women having mid-life sexual awakenings is a Thing, with vast (mostly stupid) literature surrounding it. Think How Stella Got Her Groove Back, for instance. (By sexing a homo, in her case.) Even vaster, if you stretch interpretation a bit. Think of all the stories featuring older women and teen boys. (According to books and Hollywood, men wake up sexually at 16 and it's gross, whereas women awaken at 35 or 40 and it's gloriously transcendent. But there is increasingly fiction about teen girls and sex, best summed up by the title Awkward. As well as middle-aged men and sex, but that's mostly homos in the Bad Old Days.)

    I don't know the biology behind it, but women get sick of their husbands. Or any man who doesn't endlessly game them, for that matter. And they're not like men, who can be unhappy, be unattracted to their wives, look for stuff on the side, and still have sex at home and stay married. Because that's the way they're built.

    Women don't just have a sex problem, in such circumstances. They have a pan-relationship problem. Suddenly they hate their mate. Everything about him turns her off. Even when he's not around. They're attracted to superior men, they get all those feelz, from tingles to lurv, and because of all the female advantages to divorce, yeah, why not divorce?

    Uh-oh. They forget the fact that they're over 40. Attractive men don't want 40+ year-olds, even hot ones. To make it worse, their schlubby exes find girlfriends. What? How is that possible, when everything they do is disgusting? Well, men don't have expiration dates. And the women they meet are distracted by romantic feelz and haven't yet noticed that they're just middle-aged schlubs.

    The female psyche is very cruel to females. But there's a loophole out of feminine attractiveness expiration: just have sex with other women! Lesbians don't care what their partners look like, judging by the appearance of 90+% of lesbians. Helps that women associate sexual attraction with feelz-attraction.

    , @kn83
    Women's sexuality is naturally more fluid the men's. Its why the vast majority of lesbians have had sex with men but only 22%-33% of gay men have sex with women. Its why many theorize that female homosexuals don't exist (their all bi). Also, lesbianism is mostly theorized to have a separate cause from male homosexuality since lesbians as a group don't have the same psychological traits/problems as gay men nor is their fertility significantly different than straight women. Both Greg Cocharn and Jayman note the Gay Germ Theory doesn't apply to women.
  107. guest says:
    @TheUmpteenthGermanOnHere
    Doesn't this mean that Greg Cochran's hypothesis is very likely going to be falsified? Or is there any possibility to posit viral impact on facial features?

    I imagine many another factor besides the shape of the subjects’ faces was at play. Haircuts, the clothes they were wearing, maybe how the picture was taken, they way they posed. Possibly even objects in the background, decor of the room they were standing in, etc.

    It wouldn’t surprise me whatsoever that gays have special rules about exactly how they post pictures to attract various things. Depending on where you place your thumb, for instance, you get a certain length of sideburns. In all seriousness, though, it wouldn’t have to be as specific as that for computers to pick up on.

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  108. Wilkey says:
    @Wilkey
    "I’m guessing the human brains used in this experiment belonged to unworldly undergrad psych majors rather than, say, 61-year-old Hollywood casting agents."

    Precisely. The computers were "taught" what to look for to find a gay face. If you're using college students, though, you're using people who haven't had much experience in life knowing what to look for. Give the test subjects a chance to peruse Grindr for a few days then bring them back and retest them. Of course you'll have to make sure the pics on Grindr are of men's faces and not...of something else.

    I actually want to amend that statement. Human gaydar is usually applied in situations where there are other indicators apart from just appearance – speech, mannerisms, personal interests, and how they interact with you. Even with all that added data I doubt you could get many people to a 91% success rate, so that’s actually pretty impressive.

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    • Replies: @guest
    There's also the fact that college kids, unlike computers, were raised in a pozzed culture. I tuned into the show This Is Us not long ago, unfortunately, and I thought all the male characters were gay. (Except one, who was only featured in flashbacks from the 70s.) Which was confusing, because they were shown in romantic situations with girls. Then I realized that most of them were supposed to be normal guys.

    If you're immersed in the MSM, which to an extent you are even when you only log onto the Dark Corners of the Internet like iSteve, you are surrounded by men acting like women, women acting like men, and everyone acting like homos. It's confusing.

    Real life experience is helpful. College kids singularly lack it. They've been conditioned out of the natural instincts free-for-all of elementary playgrounds, but they haven't yet really left the cocoon, most of them.

  109. guest says:
    @Sunbeam
    "This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary."

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?

    It's not like the random factors aligned to inevitably produce someone genetically attracted to children.

    Leave it to others to speculate on why, carried disease, learned behavior (Nah, we all know everything is genetic, absolutely everything, and culture, parenting, and societal expectations do nothing. It's all sperm and ova all the way down.)

    Or I suppose it is an angle to make a story more interesting, or a common tactic for defense lawyers hoping for sympathy from the court for a heinous crime.

    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.

    The usual comeback to this is that predators have advanced gaydar.

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  110. guest says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    I think people who identify as gay were probably born that way, especially men.

    But I think a fair number of women who identify as gay are just fat ugly women who realized early on that they were never going to get anywhere with men, were probably ruthlessly taunted by other kids when young, and as a result hate all things male. They are a significant part of feminism, especially the crazier parts. I doubt any of the four broads in the picture below are getting much sex even from other "lesbians".

    http://freenj.blogspot.com/2017/09/two-visions.html

    A goodly share of both were sexually abused by men while young. Males by gay or bisexual men, but girls by any old men. Very often stepfathers and boyfriends brought into the house by

    But both categories conveniently end up being populated by people who wouldn’t attract the opposite sex well if they tried. (Despite lonely women’s pretence that “all the good ones are gay.”) Hmm.

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  111. Wilkey says:
    @BB753
    My experience with gays (no homo) is that they deny there's such a thing as a gaydar, and that heteros cannot tell them apart either.
    As it happens, I have a pretty good gaydar. I know what a gay face usually looks like: pursed lips, eyes wide open, smirk, boyish looks.

    Even lesbians pretend there's no way to tell a lesbian apart! Though with lesbians, it's even easier not only because of their general lack of feminity, but because they don't act around you like a normal woman would, being a man.

    I actually want to amend that statement. Human gaydar is usually applied in situations where there are other indicators apart from just appearance – speech, mannerisms, personal interests, and how they interact with you. Even with all that added data I doubt you could get many people to a 91% success rate, so that’s actually pretty impressive.

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  112. guest says:
    @Wilkey
    I actually want to amend that statement. Human gaydar is usually applied in situations where there are other indicators apart from just appearance - speech, mannerisms, personal interests, and how they interact with you. Even with all that added data I doubt you could get many people to a 91% success rate, so that's actually pretty impressive.

    There’s also the fact that college kids, unlike computers, were raised in a pozzed culture. I tuned into the show This Is Us not long ago, unfortunately, and I thought all the male characters were gay. (Except one, who was only featured in flashbacks from the 70s.) Which was confusing, because they were shown in romantic situations with girls. Then I realized that most of them were supposed to be normal guys.

    If you’re immersed in the MSM, which to an extent you are even when you only log onto the Dark Corners of the Internet like iSteve, you are surrounded by men acting like women, women acting like men, and everyone acting like homos. It’s confusing.

    Real life experience is helpful. College kids singularly lack it. They’ve been conditioned out of the natural instincts free-for-all of elementary playgrounds, but they haven’t yet really left the cocoon, most of them.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    and everyone acting like homos. It’s confusing.
     
    In Western Europe, more than half the young men you see walking around look gay. In Italy in particular. Basically, the majority set off Seinfeld crude version of gaydar: they were thin and neat, and wore non-baggy fashionable clothing.
    , @Corvinus
    "There’s also the fact that college kids, unlike computers, were raised in a pozzed culture."

    Actually, college kids have been raised in an American culture. Like all culture, it transforms. Generations tend to remember the "good stuff", downplay the "bad stuff", and complain about the "current stuff".

    "I tuned into the show This Is Us not long ago, unfortunately, and I thought all the male characters were gay. (Except one, who was only featured in flashbacks from the 70s.) Which was confusing, because they were shown in romantic situations with girls. Then I realized that most of them were supposed to be normal guys."

    Praytell, what is a "normal guy" to you?

    "If you’re immersed in the MSM, which to an extent you are even when you only log onto the Dark Corners of the Internet like iSteve, you are surrounded by men acting like women, women acting like men, and everyone acting like homos. It’s confusing."

    Or perhaps that people are just acting the way that they want to without being confined to a structure you find comforting.

    "Real life experience is helpful. College kids singularly lack it. They’ve been conditioned out of the natural instincts free-for-all of elementary playgrounds, but they haven’t yet really left the cocoon, most of them."

    You haven't been paying close attention to elementary playgrounds or the halls of middle schools. Real life smacks those kids squarely in the face. It's a free-for-all, just with different rules compared to your experience.
  113. @George
    "smaller foreheads compared to straight women."

    Hey all you human biodiversity smarties: Is there an IQ interpretation here?

    Christina Ricci has one of the more prominent foreheads. Think of all the dating that she missed with the wrong hairstyle.

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    • Replies: @jim jones
    Known on Reddit as a fivehead:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Fiveheads/
  114. @e
    Recent studies in rodents showed that a late gestation surge of testosterone in male fetuses greatly reduced the production of methyltransferase. Methyltransferase is an enzyme that results in production of methyl groups which act as "caps" on genes, preventing their expression. The testosterone surge in males essentially lifted these "caps" on genes, allowing expression of male reproductive/mating behaviors such as anal sniffing, thrusting, etc. Females given testosterone perinatally (both before and up to weeks after birth) exhibited these male reproductive behaviors. So, while there IS a window during which testosterone can act to produce these behaviors, that window extends past birth, at least in rodents.

    There must be other genes, genes for mate selection/recognition of an appropriate mate, that remain "capped" in the homosexual male so they exhibit the female default behaviors.

    And, while hormones, their presence or absence during gestation and after, yes, might control which behaviors are expressed, this wouldn't be the whole story. Something is causing a problem in the production or timing of the release of the hormones.


    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/42555/title/Female-Brain-Maintained-by-Methylation/

    Your discussion including the section below made me ponder the next steps in CRISPR or similar genetic manipulation technologies.

    The testosterone surge in males essentially lifted these “caps” on genes, allowing expression of male reproductive/mating behaviors

    A similar tweaking of gene caps, or other mechanism, could be used to modify various physical characteristics, whether allopecia, obesity, diabetes or the Priss gene, LOL for black penile endowment. Those items are just some of the trillion dollar industries waiting to be born.

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  115. @Fredrik
    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it's a gay town.

    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it’s a gay town.

    My sole issue with the gays is the public health risk posed by anal sex. Human fecal matter is deadly – period. Otherwise, I’ve enjoyed (greatly) the extra availability of women created by removing so many men from the pool in towns like Key West, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Ann Arbor, NYC, and Boulder/JeffCo. Of course deporting the gays to Africa would result in the same extra availability while removing the public health risk and deporting all the buggerers would (to the observations I’ve made) also remove most of the Africans to their homeland as well – so a double benefit since those two groups are the primary disease vectors for most sexually transmitted diseases.

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    • Replies: @Uncle Remus
    On target, Stan. Your solution would also contribute to diminishing the dangerous population explosion in Africa, and perhaps be the salvation of Europe.
  116. anonguy says:
    @Anonym
    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).

    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).

    It doesn’t work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don’t try to seduce straight guys.

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    • Replies: @guest
    I agree that gay men have superior gaydar, but they don't refrain from hitting on straight men, in my experience. Of course, I didn't grow up in the Bad Old Days. Maybe it was truer back then.

    Depends on what the above poster meant by "all the time." Let's say it happens more often than fugly lesbo feminists are forced to deal with the ravages of the Male Gaze. Maybe handsome straight men subjectively experience unwanted advances from gays as happening "all the time" when it's more like once in a while or now and then.

    , @Anonym
    It doesn’t work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don’t try to seduce straight guys.

    I am saying what I say from personal experience. That's one reason why my gaydar is very good. The other is that because of sales experience I have learned to read faces very well, so I pick up on little things about faces. Very often I will say about someone on TV - "He's gay." And my wife will say something like "But he has girlfriend/wife/kids, he's not gay, you're always thinking that people are gay." And invariably if you google you will find out that there is a lot of smoke or fire. Often it will come out years later that the guy comes out of the closet.

    I am very straight. But more often than not I'm also the best looking guy in the room. I get female attention which is nice (certainly more when I was younger :/ ) but I also get unwanted homosexual male attention. It's natural, when you think about it. Gays are attracted to good looking guys. It's natural for them to want to talk to a good looking guy. It's like why the more confident men will talk to a good looking woman even if they have no chance. Because of the attraction. The more forward and risk taking ones will move to proposition. The more realistic and risk averse ones will realise that it's not going to happen. (In all people when they are out of their league talking to someone, the patterns are the same, but women are usually less forward.)

    BTW one of the "mentoring" friendships I had with an older gay guy who I didn't realize was gay (because I was young) until probably months into the friendship yielded quite a bit of insight about gay men. Certainly in his case, most people would think that gay men should be attracted to homosexuals, and flaming homosexuals, but as he explained, he certainly wasn't. Like most females are, they are attracted to masculine, straight men (which is why the male body with a female-ish brain makes a lot of sense). The big turn on is to convert a straight man. But that's not going to happen in the majority of cases. It's a world of bottoms looking for a top. (Not exactly the same thing, but just because it would be all nice and tidy for male homosexuals to desire each other, and maybe they make do with each other for that reason, it's not necessarily what they want.)

    Anyway, that is my experience. I suppose you could argue that I'm secretly gay but in the age of internet porn I think I would have figured that one out by now.
  117. @kihowi
    I just read a book with a bunch of the Oscar Wild trial transcripts, and it was certainly common where he was. One of the chambermaids quit on the spot when she saw the state of the sheets the next morning. "The result of the act of sodomy is not unlike that of the enema", as the book put it.

    What book was this, then?

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    • Replies: @kihowi

    What book was this, then?
     
    This one: https://archive.org/details/trialofoscarwild00wildrich
  118. @G Pinfold

    In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.
     
    I dunno, Steve. Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
    This article tends to prove Bailey's thesis from a few years ago that 80%+ of gays are catchers who only pitch to grease the wheels, so to speak.
    I have an embryonic hypothesis that the apparent sudden surge of transsexuals (from circus oddity to demographic sliver) reflects this. Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be. (Wow, it's hard to find single-entendre metaphors.)
    I know I took a bit of heat from naked gay Natsy bodybuilder types last time I ventured this idea, but think about it.

    Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.

    An ex-girlfriend of mine was a dancer. She claimed that contrary to popular opinion, most male dancers were not gay; however, whether gay or straight, all men who became dancers did it in the first instance for sex, they were all promiscuous, and they never had trouble finding willing partners, whether they wanted men or women.

    From which I conclude that Greg Louganis could have as many women as he wanted, if he wanted them.

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    • Replies: @G Pinfold
    I think that is true. My point is that this question would be moot if Greg Louganis , or whoever, is, in the vernacular, a catcher. In which case, his prowess or otherwise at getting gals would not be top of mind.
  119. res says:
    @Art Deco
    Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8

    I'd research that with better sources.


    P.S. Art Deco, please, just this once, admit you were wrong.

    Wrong about what? I wasn't asserting that there wasn't a heritable influence. I was contesting the notion that heredity determines.

    Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8

    I’d research that with better sources.

    Like these?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826121/

    The concordance rates of schizophrenia for monozygotic twins have been found to be about 40 to 50%, and heritability estimates are around 80% 46,47.

    This one is interesting in that they get different results from twin and population studies: https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/doi/10.1093/schbul/sbw159/2549014/Familial-Aggregation-and-Heritability-of

    Heritability, the degree of genetic contribution to phenotypic variance, has been estimated to range between 41% and 87%.7–13 In general, heritability estimates derived from twin studies are higher than those based on the general population. One estimate for heritability based on a meta-analysis of 12 twin studies was 81%.12 However, an estimate calculated from the population-based data of the Swedish Multi-generation Register was lower, though still substantial, at 64%.13

    I tend to trust meta-studies (and twin studies are usually a good source of heritability estimates), but it would be interesting to understand the discrepancy.

    This one links to a paper: https://plus.google.com/103530621949492999968/posts/AnXMiqKpSji

    The probandwise concordance rate of schizophrenia is 33% in monozygotic (MZ) twins and 7% in dizygotic (DZ) twins. We estimated the heritability of schizophrenia to be 79%. When expanding illness outcome to include schizophrenia spectrum disorders, the heritability estimate was almost similar, 73%.

    And back to you:

    Wrong about what? I wasn’t asserting that there wasn’t a heritable influence. I was contesting the notion that heredity determines.

    No reasonable person thinks heredity is completely deterministic for any even mildly complicated trait. Unless you are going Motte and Bailey on me that is not what “It’s not hereditary.” means. Perhaps you can clarify what exactly “It’s not hereditary” means to you? Is there a bound on the heritability values where that statement is and is not valid?

    Would you also assert schizophrenia is “not hereditary”?

    P.S. Thank you for helping me update my assessment of how seriously you take evidence presented to you. You really do seem to expect everyone to just take what you say on faith. Even when you don’t engage seriously with counterarguments and evidence.

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  120. @Sunbeam
    "This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary."

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?

    It's not like the random factors aligned to inevitably produce someone genetically attracted to children.

    Leave it to others to speculate on why, carried disease, learned behavior (Nah, we all know everything is genetic, absolutely everything, and culture, parenting, and societal expectations do nothing. It's all sperm and ova all the way down.)

    Or I suppose it is an angle to make a story more interesting, or a common tactic for defense lawyers hoping for sympathy from the court for a heinous crime.

    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?

    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I think for a lot of men (and women) being gay is a lifestyle choice. It is just one step up from solo masturbation, with the addition of an extra pair of hands, a mouth, and possibly other apertures, but makes it possible to avoid the responsibility of raising children, contributing to school fundraisers, spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, and attending school functions. Without children health insurance is much cheaper. You can also take vacations and travel at any time of year without being tied to school holidays.

    For many men who don’t have women falling all over them, it is probably a rational choice if you don’t mind the opprobrium, or can live and work in a milieu where you are accepted. For many women who are not attractive to men, having a female partner for mutual masturbation and shopping with zero risk of pregnancy is better than being alone. Women used to join convents for the same reasons.

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    • Replies: @guest
    "Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up."

    You may think that, but what does reality say? Judging by actions rather than what people say, that is.

    There's a difference between not wanting to do it and not actually doing it, by the way.

    , @guest
    "even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?"

    Just one of those thangs. You can't logic it out of existence.

    , @Anonym
    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I am not sure exactly, but it seems like there is a fair bit of smoke there.

    https://youtu.be/uHxBDf4WgWo
    , @Logan
    There are a huge number of things men (mostly) get fixated on sexually. Feet, shoes, latex, leather, bondage, etc. I once read a paper about a guy who was sexually fixated on the exhaust pipes of running cars. Gently vibrating, dripping water, etc. Sounds really arousing!

    Few of them are logical because sexual attraction is absolutely not logical. It is a reaction, not something consciously controllable.

    One can, presumably, control actions taken on the basis of a sexual attraction, but even that becomes somewhat questionable for those who are compulsive.
  121. @Bill Jones
    I'm not gay and I do 90% plus just by observing how they look at women.

    My theory: Mothers are much more likely to know that their son is gay than fathers. From infancy and continuing through adulthood, if her child looks at something, a mother will commonly look to see what he’s looking at. They eventually notice that he looks at men a lot more than he looks at women. Fathers usually don’t do that and tend to notice a lot less often.

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  122. Similarly, the friends of 6’5″ WNBA star Lisa Leslie found her a 6′-7″ black guy who is a cargo jet pilot to marry.

    I thought that scene with Lew Kareem was a joke.

    Don’t pilots face height limits? Is cargo exempt?

    Are cargo cults exempt?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Modern transport category aircraft can handle tall pilots-6'7" would be pushing it, but it isn't out of the question.

    Bigger problem would be that you have to start out in smaller aircraft. In GA, 6' 7" would be a serious issue- you would have to start out in something besides the common Cessna 150 or 172. I knew an extremely tall guy that had one of those Grumman American things designed by Jim Bede-they had a sliding canopy, could be flown with it open, and he always wore a motorcycle helmet and goggles.

    I doubt a 6' 7" person could fit in either a T-37 or T-38, so wouldn't have been military.
  123. OT, but it appears that the Huffington Post and Salon have not reported on this yet. They will have to come up with a spin first and blame it on whitey. The left will remain silent for at least a couple of days then there will be breathless reports about how gays will get a backlashed, again and again; harder, harder.

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  124. This show talks about an interesting study:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5iEnZt2t7k starting at about 6:53.

    They sat an equal number of gays and straights in front of a camera and had them talk about the weather. Then they removed the sound track and ran the video through a program that converted it to line drawings so that the viewer could see the subjects’ movements but not hear their voices or distinguish their facial features and clothing styles. Just from watching how the subject moved, viewers were able to determine which were straight and which were gay/lesbian with more than 80% accuracy.

    Apparently, they also played back the sound track without any video and found that people were able to tell gay from straight men with good accuracy just by hearing their voices without seeing them.

    By the way, many episodes of this series can be seen on youtube. A very entertaining attack on political correctness of many varieties.

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  125. Flip says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell might overwhelm the Artificial Intelligence algorithm that screens for "gay" face. I would imagine that Mitch McConnell's face would suggest to the "gay face" detector algorithm that he is a flaming, acrobatic homosexual of the worst sort. Mitch McConnell looks like he bends over like a dog and receives more than he bargained for from the plutocratic globalizer donors who control the Republican Party.

    Mitch McConnell was on all fours when the Republican party donors were pushing the Obama/Rubio Illegal Alien Amnesty -- Mass Immigration Surge bill(S744) through the United States Senate in June of 2013. Mitch McConnell was working behind the scenes, and on all fours in front of the GOP donors with his behind in the air, to push the nation-wrecking Obama/Rubio immigration bill to successful passage in the United States Senate.

    Mitch McConnell managed to get the Obama/Rubio immigration bill(S744) passed in the United States Senate with the help of about 12 Republican Senators. There is no doubt that Mitch McConnell prostituted himself, with much enthusiasm, to the Republican Party donors who push mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien infiltrators.

    Mitch "Homosexual Whore For GOP Donors" McConnell Exhibits Gay Face:

    https://twitter.com/serr8d/status/906148825856958465

    That may be, but if McConnell hadn’t maneuvered like he did, Garland would be on the Supreme Court and the Heller decision would be overturned, stripping Americans of their gun rights. He saved our civilization as far as I am concerned.

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  126. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer

    Will AI give us thug face, conservative face, liberal face, etc?

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    • Replies: @kn83
    Thug face has already been confirmed, though it is unlikely one could determine a person's worldview from their face.
  127. This experiment begs a really obvious question: Can AI detect pedoface?

    Which begs an even bigger question: What is the overlap between sodomite and pedophile populations? This would be an easy experiment to conduct because certainly there are many photos of convicted pedophiles on the interwebs.

    Which begs the biggest question of all: What percent of Republicucks in Congress are pedos?

    #questionsthatgobegging

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  128. @Art Deco
    Artificial intelligence can accurately guess whether people are gay or straight based on photos of their faces, according to new research suggesting that machines can have significantly better “gaydar” than humans….

    And they verified the status of their subjects just how and defined 'gay' just how?

    “And they verified the status of their subjects just how and defined ‘gay’ just how?”

    You nervous bro?

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  129. Mark Caplan says: • Website

    Randomly choose 1,000 men. Roughly 970 will be straight and 30 (3%) will be gay. Since the algorithm is 91% accurate, it will generate 9% errors or false positives. So for the 970 straight men in the sample, the algorithm will erroneously declare 87 of them gay, almost 300% off from the correct number of 30!

    Additionally, the algorithm has been shown to work only on dating-site images, not on facial images in general.

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    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    No. The AI assesses two sets of images and must decide which set is the normal person and which is the sodomite. Because otherwise, yes, it would be easy enough to just choose "normal" every time the AI assesses a single image and be correct 97 to 98% of the time.

    It's impressive that it correctly chooses the normal person and the sodomite 91% of the time -- that's way beyond the 50/50 predicted solely by chance. The experimental methodology is sound.
  130. gcochran says:
    @james wilson
    The embryo's sex is determined at conception, obviously, but the embryo has no sex until one of the many intense hormone washes that occur over the first two weeks of life trigger it. Mistakes are made that will last a lifetime. This would be an environmental factor that was indistinguishable from a genetic one. The Germans discovered that a great many more homosexuals were born in 1945-46 than in any other period.

    Dorner discovered it, but it didn’t actually take place.

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  131. @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    Humans evolved in small tribes of hunter-gatherers.

    These tribes lived in violent competition with each other for scarce resources.

    Inside the tribe, men competed for women.

    Genetically-superior men gained sexual access to women, and strengthened the tribe by siring genetically-superior children.

    But excessive sexual competition inside the tribe led to men killing each other, which severely damaged the tribe’s ability to wage war against other tribes.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    “Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.”

    Cool story bruh. I’m pretty sure God gave us hands for that purpose, not other men’s lower digestive systems. I don’t care how long the dry spell lasted, I have never wanted to stick it in a man’s feces evacuation hole. Beyond repugnant.

    #bornthatway

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    • Replies: @guest
    You say that, but have you ever been to prep school or prison? Don't tell me all those Situational Gays were actually "born that way" and coincidentally came out while they happened to be in male-only environments. Then for some reason coincidentally went back in the closet when they rejoined female society.
  132. I wonder whose photos they used to first calibrate the machine? I’m reminded of a documentary I saw on the early days of aircraft mounted radar. The team went up and flew around a harbour trying to detect first small boats and then larger and larger ships but it still wasn’t working. The scientists told the pilot “find a bigger ship!”. He responded “that last one was the Queen Mary“. So who was the AI gaydar’s first Queen Mary? Who first made it ping? I’ll bet plucked eyebrows were involved.

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  133. songbird says:
    @Anonymous
    Or, perhaps criminals hardest hit. Supposedly AI can identify criminals with a fairly high accuracy rate. I wonder if criminals really have certain facial features or just tend to project a certain attitude (E.g. Contempt) in their mug shots that is read as facial features, rather than as a facial expression.

    Below is a link to an article that covers this topic. I haven't actually read this particular article, but I've read others on this topic.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602955/neural-network-learns-to-identify-criminals-by-their-faces/

    Skin color is almost certainly the most predictive factor.

    After that distance between eyes, probably. Tatoos. Scars. Missing teeth. Very few pedophiles have detached earlobes, I think I remember hearing. Other facial bone structure, signifying both race and testosterone exposure. Size of neck. Some people honestly look like pitbulls. I wouldn’t be surprised if eye color counts too, as women commit less violent crime and blue-eyed men typically have relatively more feminine faces.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if some mental illnesses had “looks.”

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  134. @Pittsburgh Thatcherite
    Humans evolved in small tribes of hunter-gatherers.

    These tribes lived in violent competition with each other for scarce resources.

    Inside the tribe, men competed for women.

    Genetically-superior men gained sexual access to women, and strengthened the tribe by siring genetically-superior children.

    But excessive sexual competition inside the tribe led to men killing each other, which severely damaged the tribe’s ability to wage war against other tribes.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    End to end B.S. Again homosexuality is not a hunter-gatherer “thing”. It’s a post-settlement, post-Neolithic thing.

    If you want some more reasonable discussion of possible theories, cue up Cochran.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/depths-of-madness/

    (Note: I don’t think this is determinative, but it’s sensible.)

    ~~

    Successful tribes did indeed develop a male-sexual-competition mitigation mechanism. It’s called … “marriage”. Basically “one per customer” mating instead of winner take all. Presumably the winners who tried “winner take all” had a habit of waking up with a spear in their back more equitable sharing arrangements were developed that helped tribal solidarity and success.

    This was only heightened by higher levels of civilization which in turn required longer maturation. So you find that civilized peoples have very high levels of natural sexual bonding.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Oxytocin

    (Unfortunately we’ve kicked this into reverse and having been headed toward sloppy African style sexual mores.)

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    • Replies: @anonguy
    Another HBD Just So Story.

    Why didn't this happen in African tribes?
  135. @Mark Caplan
    Randomly choose 1,000 men. Roughly 970 will be straight and 30 (3%) will be gay. Since the algorithm is 91% accurate, it will generate 9% errors or false positives. So for the 970 straight men in the sample, the algorithm will erroneously declare 87 of them gay, almost 300% off from the correct number of 30!

    Additionally, the algorithm has been shown to work only on dating-site images, not on facial images in general.

    No. The AI assesses two sets of images and must decide which set is the normal person and which is the sodomite. Because otherwise, yes, it would be easy enough to just choose “normal” every time the AI assesses a single image and be correct 97 to 98% of the time.

    It’s impressive that it correctly chooses the normal person and the sodomite 91% of the time — that’s way beyond the 50/50 predicted solely by chance. The experimental methodology is sound.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mark Caplan
    You're right there is not a problem with the methodology and the algorithm is much better than flipping a coin. The problem is the inference many people will draw when they see "91% accurate."

    This is similar to the medical test for a disease that is proven 99% accurate. If you're given the test and the outcome is positive for the disease, what is the probability you actually have the disease? Many people -- even some doctors -- think that means you are 99% likely to have the disease. That's very wrong. When the disease is relatively rare (or, in our case, where the percentage of gays in the general population is fairly small), the probability that you actually have the disease could be quite low.

    "Medical False Positives and False Negatives"
    https://brownmath.com/stat/falsepos.htm

  136. Ha ha, Sailer’s nervous: he doesn’t want to in any way explore the nexus of child molestation (specifically the rape of boys) and sodomites. Some topics are taboo for even the hateyest of alt-right thinkers…

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    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    Ha ha, Sailer’s nervous: he doesn’t want to in any way explore the nexus of child molestation (specifically the rape of boys) and sodomites. Some topics are taboo for even the hateyest of alt-right thinkers…
     
    Huh? Evidence Steve is nervous or this topic is taboo for him?

    Steve's already posted about theories on the trans stuff that throw the tranny loons into screaming fits and have the SPLC hate-industrial-complex tacking on some more "hate" checkmarks.

    Give Steve something interesting to say on this topic and he might run with it.

    Note, i'm on board with you here. I have no doubt there's a clear connection being the rape of boys and gays. The Catholic Church "pedophile" scandal wasn't about a bunch of weirdo priests raping 8 year old girls and boys. The Catholic Church scandals were about 99% fag priests molesting 14-17 year old "boys"--i.e. prime fag fantasy targets. But the left/Jewish media absolutely didn't want to point out that this was just a big fag rape fest, with homo-hierarchy enabling. Gays are victims, not perps! So the villain was Catholic traditionalism or something.

    The connection with "gay" and stuff like the Catholic Church "pedophilia" is blindingly obvious. The perps were pretty much all gay. If you're talking about what most people think of as "pedophilia"--attraction to pre-adolescent kids, then I think it's less clear. Those pedos would seem to be weird, weird people with some sort of biological error or screwed up upbringing (abuse) leading them to be way off kilter sexually. Since they are sexually screwed up and gays are sexually screwed up, i'd tend to expect the pedo bucket is more gay. But I don't have any good data on that.

    Give Steve something interesting to link to here and maybe he'll go for it.
  137. songbird says:

    One big question would be if it can guess the gay identical twin. I’ll bet it could with an MRI, but I wonder whether it would be possible just from the face, given enough resolution.

    Back in the day this could have been a major tool for blackmailers.

    I’m not one of those people who think Hitler was gay, but I wonder whether this would work on historical photos.

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  138. Clyde says:

    lol……must be lot of interest in this….lots of comments here on computers sussing out the gay face/gay faces and how about the lesbian face?

    Next for AI…. the Alpha face. Does Putin have it? Donald Trump has it.

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  139. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Run it on Lindsey Graham
     
    Haha! You could write a program using punch cards with his drivers license number as input and feed it into the old VAX/VMS, and it'd spit out a big:


    ==========================
    oxoxoxox .......... o ........ ox ...... xo
    o ...................... x x ........ x ...... x
    o ..................... o .. o ....... o .... o
    o .................... x .... x ....... x .. x
    o ..... oxo ...... oxoxox ......... o
    o ......... o ..... x ........ x ........ o
    o ......... o .... o .......... o ....... o
    o ......... o ... x ............ x ...... o
    oxoxoxo .. o .............. o ... .. o
    ==========================

    on a wide sheet of green and white striped paper in 15 minutes flat! Keep in mind, it took about half an hour to calculate all the primes up through 25.

    You’d find a retrocomputer meet a complete blast then. I’ve been to several, and you see all types, including a fair number of fairly blatant M2F trannies that fit the autogynephilic meme to a tee. “Burger Becky” who used to be Burger Bill, for instance.

    Rebecca Ann Heineman (born William Salvador Heineman) is an American video game programmer. A long-time veteran of the computer game industry (originally credited mostly as Bill Heineman), Heineman was a founding member of Interplay Productions, Logicware, and Contraband Entertainment. She has also been affiliated at various times with Barking Lizards Technologies, Electronic Arts, Bloomberg, Microsoft, MacPlay and Ubisoft, among other game companies. Heineman works as the CEO[1] of Olde Skuul in Seattle, Washington.

    However, unlike, say, high end audio, which is full of mincing and flaming homosexual males, you rarely see gay acting gay men.

    VMS was (and still is) a great environment for what it was designed for, but the VAX platform, which was state of the art when it was designed, fell way behind on CPU power. They did migrate it to the superb 64 bit Alpha platform, but by then the company was senile in its management, and it was bought out by Compaq. They had no idea what to do with it and were themselves bought by HP, who during the Broad Restructuring mismanaged both its own and the new intellectual assets and technologies, betting the farm on Itanic, which flopped over like a dead mackerel.

    VMS is still out there:

    http://www.vmssoftware.com/

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    You’d find a retrocomputer meet a complete blast then.
     
    Uhhh, after all the stuff you wrote afterwards about the, let's say, colorful people there, I'm not sure I would fit in that well. I wouldn't mind putting my name in the hat to win a punch-card writer or reader, so long as you don't have to be there to, umm, don't take this the wrong way ... enter.

    Interesting stuff about the old computer world, Anonymous. Thanks.

    Haha, Burger Becky!!
  140. @e
    Recent studies in rodents showed that a late gestation surge of testosterone in male fetuses greatly reduced the production of methyltransferase. Methyltransferase is an enzyme that results in production of methyl groups which act as "caps" on genes, preventing their expression. The testosterone surge in males essentially lifted these "caps" on genes, allowing expression of male reproductive/mating behaviors such as anal sniffing, thrusting, etc. Females given testosterone perinatally (both before and up to weeks after birth) exhibited these male reproductive behaviors. So, while there IS a window during which testosterone can act to produce these behaviors, that window extends past birth, at least in rodents.

    There must be other genes, genes for mate selection/recognition of an appropriate mate, that remain "capped" in the homosexual male so they exhibit the female default behaviors.

    And, while hormones, their presence or absence during gestation and after, yes, might control which behaviors are expressed, this wouldn't be the whole story. Something is causing a problem in the production or timing of the release of the hormones.


    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/42555/title/Female-Brain-Maintained-by-Methylation/

    It also extends past birth in humans.

    I wonder if there is a connection to the state of the testes. Now that they are outside of the mother’s body, they have the temperature to function

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  141. kn83 says:
    @yyrvjh
    Until this study has been replicated at least once -- preferably multiple times -- I see no reason to believe in its findings.

    This is the most sensible comment so far.

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  142. Lot says:
    @Charles Pewitt
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell might overwhelm the Artificial Intelligence algorithm that screens for "gay" face. I would imagine that Mitch McConnell's face would suggest to the "gay face" detector algorithm that he is a flaming, acrobatic homosexual of the worst sort. Mitch McConnell looks like he bends over like a dog and receives more than he bargained for from the plutocratic globalizer donors who control the Republican Party.

    Mitch McConnell was on all fours when the Republican party donors were pushing the Obama/Rubio Illegal Alien Amnesty -- Mass Immigration Surge bill(S744) through the United States Senate in June of 2013. Mitch McConnell was working behind the scenes, and on all fours in front of the GOP donors with his behind in the air, to push the nation-wrecking Obama/Rubio immigration bill to successful passage in the United States Senate.

    Mitch McConnell managed to get the Obama/Rubio immigration bill(S744) passed in the United States Senate with the help of about 12 Republican Senators. There is no doubt that Mitch McConnell prostituted himself, with much enthusiasm, to the Republican Party donors who push mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien infiltrators.

    Mitch "Homosexual Whore For GOP Donors" McConnell Exhibits Gay Face:

    https://twitter.com/serr8d/status/906148825856958465

    I followed this for years. Mitch is anti-amnesty and did his best to block and slow open borders bills.

    You can’t blame him for not stopping everything. Though in the end, no amnesty bill actually passed congress to go to Bush/Obama’s desk to sign, did it? Not even one.

    Sometimes he was the MINORITY leader, and even when the GOP had a majority, it was still 45-49 Dems who favor amnesty + 20-25 GOPs who favor amnesty.

    Same thing for John Boehner, another unsung immigration patriot who unfairly got crap for years by fake conservatives scheming to get Ryan in as speaker.

    [If you don't want to take my word for it, Ann Coulter has said the same thing]

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  143. anonguy says:
    @ATX Hipster

    they sampled people who have been brought up being told that straight and gay are just interchangeable choices. They should sample “homophobes” and see how they compare to the algorithm.
     
    Yeah, would be interesting to see the study repeated at Texas A&M or LSU and see if the gap between human & machine performance persists.

    This was my intuition too, but I’ve gotten burned on it a few times (as in, man, thought I was gonna hit that!)
     
    I hate to break this to you, but if you've noticed a pattern of straight-looking "lesbians" turning you down, it may be that you're not in the better class of men they want hitting on them.

    I hate to break this to you, but if you’ve noticed a pattern of straight-looking “lesbians” turning you down, it may be that you’re not in the better class of men they want hitting on them.

    At least they didn’t tell them they had to wash their hair or give their cat a bath.

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  144. I wonder if a version of this software will be loaded into coin operated machines and sold to bars? I also wonder if they’ve tried the same sort of thing with voice recognition software? Load both capabilities into one of these incredibly sinister robot dogs:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf7IEVTDjng

    I’m sure no one would be troubled by that.

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  145. Lot says:
    @guest
    There's also the fact that college kids, unlike computers, were raised in a pozzed culture. I tuned into the show This Is Us not long ago, unfortunately, and I thought all the male characters were gay. (Except one, who was only featured in flashbacks from the 70s.) Which was confusing, because they were shown in romantic situations with girls. Then I realized that most of them were supposed to be normal guys.

    If you're immersed in the MSM, which to an extent you are even when you only log onto the Dark Corners of the Internet like iSteve, you are surrounded by men acting like women, women acting like men, and everyone acting like homos. It's confusing.

    Real life experience is helpful. College kids singularly lack it. They've been conditioned out of the natural instincts free-for-all of elementary playgrounds, but they haven't yet really left the cocoon, most of them.

    and everyone acting like homos. It’s confusing.

    In Western Europe, more than half the young men you see walking around look gay. In Italy in particular. Basically, the majority set off Seinfeld crude version of gaydar: they were thin and neat, and wore non-baggy fashionable clothing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    There is a joke about it:

    What do gay American men look like?
    They look like Frenchmen.
    And what do gay Frenchmen look like?
    They look like Italians.

    I'm always surprised when I land in France
    and see that typical slender look on both
    men and women (neck scarves help),
    especially compared to the heavier-boned
    Germans and Slavs
  146. A lot of star women basketball players, for example, seem to just need an extremely tall and quite masculine guy to marry: 1970s women’s basketball player Ann Meyer found true love in the arms of Hall of Fame 6’5″ pitcher / raconteur Don Drysdale. Similarly, the friends of 6’5″ WNBA star Lisa Leslie found her a 6′-7″ black guy who is a cargo jet pilot to marry.

    I do think female sexuality is more fluid and conditional, but the ring fingers on these high-level female basketball players indicate a digit ratio (between ring and index finger) influenced by testosterone during development (which correlates to lesbianism). Most women’s ring fingers are shorter than their index finger, while the reverse is true for men. When there’s a reversal of that ratio it is correlated with homosexuality for both sexes.

    The theory went that the long ring finger helped prehistoric men throw missiles while hunting or at war with another band, and you can kind of see how the ring finger is an important last point of contact during the jump shot. So it may be that because basketball requires the sort of manual dexterity that other women’s sports do not (i.e., soccer), basketball may select for high-t exposed women with long ring fingers and therefore lean heavily towards lesbians at the top levels. There’s probably also a reinforcing effect going on here, since competitive and aggressive behavior is known to increase testosterone.

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  147. kn83 says:
    @Ghost of Bull Moose
    "A lot of lesbians seem like they wouldn’t be lesbians if they had a better class of men hitting on them."

    Steve is on to something here. Like Sailer's Law of Female Journalists, everything would be fine if girls 'like them' were considered hotter.

    Conversely, many gay men seem to (enjoy?) extreme narcissism. They love themselves so much they only want to be with someone who is physically similar. You see a lot of gay 'twins' in Chelsea for example.

    Homosexuals are not more narcissistic than straights. In fact, “dark-triad” traits tend to correlate (moderately) negatively with homosexuality

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  148. kn83 says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Seems very unlikely. Gay men are often so repulsed by sex with women that relying on them to impregnate women is a bad risk.

    This is so true. Its why gay men have significantly lower fertility rates (80%) than straights, though this is not the same for lesbians.

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  149. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Reg Cæsar

    Similarly, the friends of 6’5″ WNBA star Lisa Leslie found her a 6′-7″ black guy who is a cargo jet pilot to marry.
     
    I thought that scene with Lew Kareem was a joke.

    Don't pilots face height limits? Is cargo exempt?

    Are cargo cults exempt?

    Modern transport category aircraft can handle tall pilots-6’7″ would be pushing it, but it isn’t out of the question.

    Bigger problem would be that you have to start out in smaller aircraft. In GA, 6′ 7″ would be a serious issue- you would have to start out in something besides the common Cessna 150 or 172. I knew an extremely tall guy that had one of those Grumman American things designed by Jim Bede-they had a sliding canopy, could be flown with it open, and he always wore a motorcycle helmet and goggles.

    I doubt a 6′ 7″ person could fit in either a T-37 or T-38, so wouldn’t have been military.

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    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    The US Air Force restricts pilots to 77 inches (and 64 on the low end). The US Navy restricts all personnel to no more than 80 inches. David Robinson enrolled at the Naval Academy while within the limit, then grew while there.
  150. guest says:
    @Brutusale
    It seems to be a trend that quite a few "straight" women leave their marriages after 20+ years and take up with other women. It could be that they're tired, being (pre-) menopausal, of being chased around by their husbands for sex and find a congenial relationship in Lesbian Bed Death.

    Women having mid-life sexual awakenings is a Thing, with vast (mostly stupid) literature surrounding it. Think How Stella Got Her Groove Back, for instance. (By sexing a homo, in her case.) Even vaster, if you stretch interpretation a bit. Think of all the stories featuring older women and teen boys. (According to books and Hollywood, men wake up sexually at 16 and it’s gross, whereas women awaken at 35 or 40 and it’s gloriously transcendent. But there is increasingly fiction about teen girls and sex, best summed up by the title Awkward. As well as middle-aged men and sex, but that’s mostly homos in the Bad Old Days.)

    I don’t know the biology behind it, but women get sick of their husbands. Or any man who doesn’t endlessly game them, for that matter. And they’re not like men, who can be unhappy, be unattracted to their wives, look for stuff on the side, and still have sex at home and stay married. Because that’s the way they’re built.

    Women don’t just have a sex problem, in such circumstances. They have a pan-relationship problem. Suddenly they hate their mate. Everything about him turns her off. Even when he’s not around. They’re attracted to superior men, they get all those feelz, from tingles to lurv, and because of all the female advantages to divorce, yeah, why not divorce?

    Uh-oh. They forget the fact that they’re over 40. Attractive men don’t want 40+ year-olds, even hot ones. To make it worse, their schlubby exes find girlfriends. What? How is that possible, when everything they do is disgusting? Well, men don’t have expiration dates. And the women they meet are distracted by romantic feelz and haven’t yet noticed that they’re just middle-aged schlubs.

    The female psyche is very cruel to females. But there’s a loophole out of feminine attractiveness expiration: just have sex with other women! Lesbians don’t care what their partners look like, judging by the appearance of 90+% of lesbians. Helps that women associate sexual attraction with feelz-attraction.

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  151. Someone recently posted this picture to lightly troll Julian Assange. The flaming menswear clerk from Are You Being Served?. I wonder if the AI would catch him?

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  152. kn83 says:
    @Brutusale
    It seems to be a trend that quite a few "straight" women leave their marriages after 20+ years and take up with other women. It could be that they're tired, being (pre-) menopausal, of being chased around by their husbands for sex and find a congenial relationship in Lesbian Bed Death.

    Women’s sexuality is naturally more fluid the men’s. Its why the vast majority of lesbians have had sex with men but only 22%-33% of gay men have sex with women. Its why many theorize that female homosexuals don’t exist (their all bi). Also, lesbianism is mostly theorized to have a separate cause from male homosexuality since lesbians as a group don’t have the same psychological traits/problems as gay men nor is their fertility significantly different than straight women. Both Greg Cocharn and Jayman note the Gay Germ Theory doesn’t apply to women.

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  153. @Fredrik
    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it's a gay town.

    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it’s a gay town.

    I think the cool thing about Key West is that the homos have a certain area of so many blocks where all of their bars and clubs and whatnot are (outside of planned events like Fantasy Fest) and I think they rent by word of mouth to one another – possibly to get around Key West’s rent restriction in that area (you need a certain license limited in number to rent a property out in Key West for periods of under one month).

    My experience has been that they utterly leave the non-homos alone there and stick to their own – which makes a certain amount of sense when you think that it’s basically a libertine free-for-all in that homo dominated area of blocks. They’re too busy bung-holing each other to get up to their usual exhibitionist dramatics.

    For other reasons though, it’s not exactly a family-friendly vacation destination.

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  154. kn83 says:
    @Anon
    Will AI give us thug face, conservative face, liberal face, etc?

    Thug face has already been confirmed, though it is unlikely one could determine a person’s worldview from their face.

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  155. guest says:
    @anonguy

    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).
     
    It doesn't work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don't try to seduce straight guys.

    I agree that gay men have superior gaydar, but they don’t refrain from hitting on straight men, in my experience. Of course, I didn’t grow up in the Bad Old Days. Maybe it was truer back then.

    Depends on what the above poster meant by “all the time.” Let’s say it happens more often than fugly lesbo feminists are forced to deal with the ravages of the Male Gaze. Maybe handsome straight men subjectively experience unwanted advances from gays as happening “all the time” when it’s more like once in a while or now and then.

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  156. If a wife runs her husband’s photo through the machine and he comes up gay, this song should start playing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daxiMb0rITA

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  157. guest says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?
     
    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I think for a lot of men (and women) being gay is a lifestyle choice. It is just one step up from solo masturbation, with the addition of an extra pair of hands, a mouth, and possibly other apertures, but makes it possible to avoid the responsibility of raising children, contributing to school fundraisers, spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, and attending school functions. Without children health insurance is much cheaper. You can also take vacations and travel at any time of year without being tied to school holidays.

    For many men who don't have women falling all over them, it is probably a rational choice if you don't mind the opprobrium, or can live and work in a milieu where you are accepted. For many women who are not attractive to men, having a female partner for mutual masturbation and shopping with zero risk of pregnancy is better than being alone. Women used to join convents for the same reasons.

    “Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up.”

    You may think that, but what does reality say? Judging by actions rather than what people say, that is.

    There’s a difference between not wanting to do it and not actually doing it, by the way.

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  158. guest says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?
     
    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I think for a lot of men (and women) being gay is a lifestyle choice. It is just one step up from solo masturbation, with the addition of an extra pair of hands, a mouth, and possibly other apertures, but makes it possible to avoid the responsibility of raising children, contributing to school fundraisers, spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, and attending school functions. Without children health insurance is much cheaper. You can also take vacations and travel at any time of year without being tied to school holidays.

    For many men who don't have women falling all over them, it is probably a rational choice if you don't mind the opprobrium, or can live and work in a milieu where you are accepted. For many women who are not attractive to men, having a female partner for mutual masturbation and shopping with zero risk of pregnancy is better than being alone. Women used to join convents for the same reasons.

    “even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?”

    Just one of those thangs. You can’t logic it out of existence.

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  159. Mark Caplan says: • Website
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    No. The AI assesses two sets of images and must decide which set is the normal person and which is the sodomite. Because otherwise, yes, it would be easy enough to just choose "normal" every time the AI assesses a single image and be correct 97 to 98% of the time.

    It's impressive that it correctly chooses the normal person and the sodomite 91% of the time -- that's way beyond the 50/50 predicted solely by chance. The experimental methodology is sound.

    You’re right there is not a problem with the methodology and the algorithm is much better than flipping a coin. The problem is the inference many people will draw when they see “91% accurate.”

    This is similar to the medical test for a disease that is proven 99% accurate. If you’re given the test and the outcome is positive for the disease, what is the probability you actually have the disease? Many people — even some doctors — think that means you are 99% likely to have the disease. That’s very wrong. When the disease is relatively rare (or, in our case, where the percentage of gays in the general population is fairly small), the probability that you actually have the disease could be quite low.

    “Medical False Positives and False Negatives”

    https://brownmath.com/stat/falsepos.htm

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  160. anonguy says:
    @AnotherDad

    Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.
     
    End to end B.S. Again homosexuality is not a hunter-gatherer "thing". It's a post-settlement, post-Neolithic thing.

    If you want some more reasonable discussion of possible theories, cue up Cochran.
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/depths-of-madness/
    (Note: I don't think this is determinative, but it's sensible.)

    ~~

    Successful tribes did indeed develop a male-sexual-competition mitigation mechanism. It's called ... "marriage". Basically "one per customer" mating instead of winner take all. Presumably the winners who tried "winner take all" had a habit of waking up with a spear in their back more equitable sharing arrangements were developed that helped tribal solidarity and success.

    This was only heightened by higher levels of civilization which in turn required longer maturation. So you find that civilized peoples have very high levels of natural sexual bonding.
    https://infogalactic.com/info/Oxytocin

    (Unfortunately we've kicked this into reverse and having been headed toward sloppy African style sexual mores.)

    Another HBD Just So Story.

    Why didn’t this happen in African tribes?

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  161. @Michelle
    It is a male conceit, and especially a Libertarian male conceit, that women of lesser attractiveness, and fat girls, get it on with other women only because men don't find them attractive. This is utter nonsense. Take a look around you. I see fat girls and lumpy girls and bowlegged girls, who have boyfriends and husbands and sometimes those boyfriends and husbands are good-looking. Just because you wouldn't screw her doesn't mean some other guy wouldn't. Some guys just like to be with a woman who is nice and appreciates them and doesn't give them grief.

    My dad left my mom, who looked like Cher, for my obese, stretch mark covered, baby sitter. Why? Because the baby sitter was nice, sweet natured and really thought my dad was a God (he wasn't) and that she would be lucky to have him (she wasn't). My mom treated him like crap, bitch, bitch, bitched at him all the time. She thought that because she had a hot bod, he would never leave her. My dad had 2 kids by the baby-sitter and they are both stunningly good-looking, and smart and happy, because they got some of their mother's sweet nature. So my dad made the right genetic decision.

    When I was 18 my ugly boyfriend left me for a really ugly woman who my friends warned me was in love with him and I would just laugh and cruelly point out how unattractive she was, and how unattractive he was, compared to my magnificence. I was mean to him too, just like my mom. I turned into a sniveling, snot dripping monster when he told me he was moving in with her. "But how could you leave me for her, she's so ugly!" I cried. "She loves me," he replied. I felt like Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. My dad used to say of Scarlett, "That bitch got everything she deserved!"

    Libertarian men are obsessed with female attractiveness and so are selected against because they only breed with women who meet certain standards of beauty. Right now that would be porn standards, which are mostly artificial anyway. If it is difficult for some men to overcome their repulsion in order to make love to a chubby chick, imagine how much more repulsive it would be for a woman to have sex with one, when she is really attracted to men. Most women are pretty obsessed with men during their reproductive years, unless they are lesbians and most of the lesbians I have met have had sex with men.

    most of the lesbians I have met have had sex with men.

    I think this conclusion to your post refutes your argument.

    Some women who have sex with women are just hyper-sexual, others have a psychological problem with men (possibly stemming from abuse) and others are perhaps innately scared of men and/or don’t like to submit to the kind of physical domination that comes from heterosexual sex. Some proportion of lesbians are so plug-ugly compared with even a plain woman that you can sort of see how they just fall into lesbianism. Then there are the proportion of formerly straight women who fall for another woman somehow and “convert” even if for a short term. (Anne Heche and Maria Bello come to mind).

    I think it is a false premise to assume that all homosexuality has a single root or cause and isn’t multi-factored – especially when it comes to women.

    Libertarian men are obsessed with female attractiveness and so are selected against because they only breed with women who meet certain standards of beauty. Right now that would be porn standards, which are mostly artificial anyway.

    I’m not a glibertarian but I don’t see this sort of universal super-high standard for female attractiveness that women infer from media images. Most men find a range of women from thin and small breasted to chubby and perhaps a little bit beyond attractive. There’s also a great attractiveness boost for “here, now” and “available.”

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  162. guest says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    "Therefore the tribe evolved a mechanism for preventing competition for women from escalating into violence between men: homosexual men.

    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men."

    Cool story bruh. I'm pretty sure God gave us hands for that purpose, not other men's lower digestive systems. I don't care how long the dry spell lasted, I have never wanted to stick it in a man's feces evacuation hole. Beyond repugnant.

    #bornthatway

    You say that, but have you ever been to prep school or prison? Don’t tell me all those Situational Gays were actually “born that way” and coincidentally came out while they happened to be in male-only environments. Then for some reason coincidentally went back in the closet when they rejoined female society.

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  163. Seneca says:
    @Roger
    Interesting theory, but what would be the genetic mechanism? If the cause is genetic, then either the gays are reproducing, or their relatives are somehow propagating their genes.

    If the cause is genetic, then either the gays are reproducing, or their relatives are somehow propagating their genes.

    Say a gene is recessive and does not express itself in the individual carrying the gene, but then is transmitted to an offspring in which it is not recessive and does express itself.

    Let’s also say that this recessive gene increases the evolutionary fitness of the group (by reducing intragroup strife among males) but not the evolutionary fitness of the individual expressing it (i.e. gays don’t reproduce).

    Couldn’t this mechanism explain how this gene is carried forward and reproduced?

    In sum, the gene survives because it increases group fertility and fitness (by reducing mortality and intragroup strife among males …. a sort of safety valve if you will) even though when it is expressed it also at the same time decreases the fertility of the group by a factor of one.

    The individual who carries the gene in a recessive way benefits, because he and his other non gay offspring are likely to survive and reproduce in a stable society with minimal intragroup strife.

    It looks like a zero sum game, except in some instances its benefits to the group might outweigh its costs (reducing intragroup strife among males leads to increased group fitness and increased fertility)

    So, Gays are a sort of a sacrificial lamb or the cost of forming society around a group of competitive males.

    So Gays Take one for the Gipper …. jumping on the live hand grenade (alpha male intragroup sexual competitiveness) so that the group can survive.

    But then how does this explain female homosexuality?Does it reduce strife among alpha females in the group?

    Also does anyone know if homosexuality is ubiquitous? Does it exist, at least to some degree, in all societies in all times?

    This is an interesting article which suggests that homosexuality is not found in all cultures.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

    Full disclosure, not a biologist or geneticist ….Anyone want to chime in?

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    • Replies: @e
    For you, read: Start with the post listed last, "Depths of Madness" and read up.


    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/category/homosexuality/
  164. Mark F. says:
    @Bill Jones
    I'm not gay and I do 90% plus just by observing how they look at women.

    Yep, I’m gay and I can’t help looking more and longer at attractive men as compared to women. If you can pick up on this, you will indeed get it right most of the time.

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  165. Anonym says:
    @anonguy

    The other segment of the population that will do well at this is intelligent, straight good looking men who get hit on all the time, find it uncomfortable and learn to spot the gay mannerisms and look from experience (so as to avoid them).
     
    It doesn't work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don't try to seduce straight guys.

    It doesn’t work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don’t try to seduce straight guys.

    I am saying what I say from personal experience. That’s one reason why my gaydar is very good. The other is that because of sales experience I have learned to read faces very well, so I pick up on little things about faces. Very often I will say about someone on TV – “He’s gay.” And my wife will say something like “But he has girlfriend/wife/kids, he’s not gay, you’re always thinking that people are gay.” And invariably if you google you will find out that there is a lot of smoke or fire. Often it will come out years later that the guy comes out of the closet.

    I am very straight. But more often than not I’m also the best looking guy in the room. I get female attention which is nice (certainly more when I was younger :/ ) but I also get unwanted homosexual male attention. It’s natural, when you think about it. Gays are attracted to good looking guys. It’s natural for them to want to talk to a good looking guy. It’s like why the more confident men will talk to a good looking woman even if they have no chance. Because of the attraction. The more forward and risk taking ones will move to proposition. The more realistic and risk averse ones will realise that it’s not going to happen. (In all people when they are out of their league talking to someone, the patterns are the same, but women are usually less forward.)

    BTW one of the “mentoring” friendships I had with an older gay guy who I didn’t realize was gay (because I was young) until probably months into the friendship yielded quite a bit of insight about gay men. Certainly in his case, most people would think that gay men should be attracted to homosexuals, and flaming homosexuals, but as he explained, he certainly wasn’t. Like most females are, they are attracted to masculine, straight men (which is why the male body with a female-ish brain makes a lot of sense). The big turn on is to convert a straight man. But that’s not going to happen in the majority of cases. It’s a world of bottoms looking for a top. (Not exactly the same thing, but just because it would be all nice and tidy for male homosexuals to desire each other, and maybe they make do with each other for that reason, it’s not necessarily what they want.)

    Anyway, that is my experience. I suppose you could argue that I’m secretly gay but in the age of internet porn I think I would have figured that one out by now.

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    • Replies: @anonguy
    I'm at the opposite end of the gaydar spectrum, mine is basically non-existent.

    OTOH, I've always been reasonably popular with the ladies. The aging part, yeah, but I'm actually surprised by how much attention one can still get in their late 50s. Keeping your hairline and waistline is about 80% of the game IMO.

    Anyhow, I can see your point, that gay guys will be attracted towards straight guys but it takes rather bolder ones to actually proposition them.

    In my own life, when everyone started coming out of the closet in the 90s, I had a number of friends "come out", some of them rather close.

    It was always a surprise in the moment, having no gaydar I never thought anyone was gay, but on reflection I'd think, yeah, makes sense. Every one I had always thought, ok, they are shy, low sex drive, who knows, wasn't ever my issue, not something I ever gave a whole lot of thought to.

    But of course, in those days, there were a lot more closeted gays, so a lot more guys around who seemingly fit that profile, guys who didn't have a current girlfriend, you just figured they weren't that interested. This was a lot more normalized back then.

    Anyhow, this happened enough to me that I recognized a pattern, going back to middle school days at least, that I'd form friendships with gay guys without knowing they were gay. Not a central feature of my life, but common enough to see that it had been a recurring thing.

    And in retrospect, I could see that those guys had been attracted to me, that had definitely been part of it, but they had been content, or inhibited enough, to keep themselves in the friendzone with me. Also in hindsight, I could see where various of these friends had subtly tested the waters with me but I was too oblivious in the moment to have any idea of what was going on.



    Again, back then, I always assumed everyone around me was straight, gays were in some other world, not mine, something I'd read or hear about, not something in my daily life.

    Here is an anecdote. Back in the late 90s, I was walking on the Capitol Crescent Trail in DC. If you haven't been on it, it is an extremely very well traveled urban rail->trail.

    So an old friend of mine, who I didn't even know was living in DC and who I had last seen/contacted 9 years before, is out on his bicycle workout. He was a serious athlete then, so he was hammering it and comes flying up behind me as I'm walking along.

    He comes screeching to a halt just as he passes me, shouts out my name, says he'd recognize that walk anywhere.

    No kidding, one glance, from a fast-moving bicycle, at the backside of average height/average weight guy from behind who he hasn't seen for nearly a decade, having passed possibly hundreds just that day.

    The 90s, with all the gay coming out, was an interesting period in my life where I discovered that I had had a pattern of attracting gay secret admirers.

    Gave me a bit to think about, since I have zippo sexual interest in men. On the physical side of it, I'm ok looking, but my strong part is my body and by luck of genetic draw, not bodybuilding or anything.

    You know those proportions for men, chest/shoulder/waist/hip ratios that supposedly are enshrined in various statues and supposedly touch deep, unconscious chords in women, just the geometry of it?

    These vary somewhat depending on the source, but tend to be close and I very much tend to match these. Way back when I was in a USMC scout/sniper platoon, somebody came across some article about this with emphasis on greek statuary.

    So we all measured ourselves, did the calculations and I matched best and by a wide margin. So thereafter the joke in the platoon was that anonguy had the body of greek god.

    Kind of a subtle effect, but it does explain a lot.

    Supposedly women who have mates with lower sexual attractiveness have a heightened propensity to have one-nighters when they are ovulating (fertile) and have a tendency to do so with guys who tend towards these proportions.

    Definitely matches my experiences, periodically getting randomly picked, seemingly, by a woman stranger for a roll in the hay like right now, but no interest in me thereafter, they have some ongoing life/relationship they have no intention of disrupting/abandoning.

    I think it also helps explain the phenomena of unwittingly having an unusually large incidence of closeted gay friends back in the day.

    And I'm certain that it continues to play out in age-diminished manner by the amount of female attention I continue to receive quite unexpectedly at this stage of life.

    Anyway, that is my experience. I suppose you could argue that I’m secretly gay but in the age of internet porn I think I would have figured that one out by now.
     
    I'd say the same thing about myself.
  166. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Charles Pewitt
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell might overwhelm the Artificial Intelligence algorithm that screens for "gay" face. I would imagine that Mitch McConnell's face would suggest to the "gay face" detector algorithm that he is a flaming, acrobatic homosexual of the worst sort. Mitch McConnell looks like he bends over like a dog and receives more than he bargained for from the plutocratic globalizer donors who control the Republican Party.

    Mitch McConnell was on all fours when the Republican party donors were pushing the Obama/Rubio Illegal Alien Amnesty -- Mass Immigration Surge bill(S744) through the United States Senate in June of 2013. Mitch McConnell was working behind the scenes, and on all fours in front of the GOP donors with his behind in the air, to push the nation-wrecking Obama/Rubio immigration bill to successful passage in the United States Senate.

    Mitch McConnell managed to get the Obama/Rubio immigration bill(S744) passed in the United States Senate with the help of about 12 Republican Senators. There is no doubt that Mitch McConnell prostituted himself, with much enthusiasm, to the Republican Party donors who push mass immigration and amnesty for illegal alien infiltrators.

    Mitch "Homosexual Whore For GOP Donors" McConnell Exhibits Gay Face:

    https://twitter.com/serr8d/status/906148825856958465

    Mitch looks more nervous nellie spinster than gay. I get that it is “feminine” in direction but there is something more to the homosexual appearance.

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  167. Clyde says:
    @G Pinfold

    In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend.
     
    I dunno, Steve. Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
    This article tends to prove Bailey's thesis from a few years ago that 80%+ of gays are catchers who only pitch to grease the wheels, so to speak.
    I have an embryonic hypothesis that the apparent sudden surge of transsexuals (from circus oddity to demographic sliver) reflects this. Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be. (Wow, it's hard to find single-entendre metaphors.)
    I know I took a bit of heat from naked gay Natsy bodybuilder types last time I ventured this idea, but think about it.

    Many of the 80% are leap-frogging the regular gay man position, and going straight to where they really want to be.

    Yikes you might have something there……

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  168. Seneca says:
    @Michelle
    It is a male conceit, and especially a Libertarian male conceit, that women of lesser attractiveness, and fat girls, get it on with other women only because men don't find them attractive. This is utter nonsense. Take a look around you. I see fat girls and lumpy girls and bowlegged girls, who have boyfriends and husbands and sometimes those boyfriends and husbands are good-looking. Just because you wouldn't screw her doesn't mean some other guy wouldn't. Some guys just like to be with a woman who is nice and appreciates them and doesn't give them grief.

    My dad left my mom, who looked like Cher, for my obese, stretch mark covered, baby sitter. Why? Because the baby sitter was nice, sweet natured and really thought my dad was a God (he wasn't) and that she would be lucky to have him (she wasn't). My mom treated him like crap, bitch, bitch, bitched at him all the time. She thought that because she had a hot bod, he would never leave her. My dad had 2 kids by the baby-sitter and they are both stunningly good-looking, and smart and happy, because they got some of their mother's sweet nature. So my dad made the right genetic decision.

    When I was 18 my ugly boyfriend left me for a really ugly woman who my friends warned me was in love with him and I would just laugh and cruelly point out how unattractive she was, and how unattractive he was, compared to my magnificence. I was mean to him too, just like my mom. I turned into a sniveling, snot dripping monster when he told me he was moving in with her. "But how could you leave me for her, she's so ugly!" I cried. "She loves me," he replied. I felt like Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. My dad used to say of Scarlett, "That bitch got everything she deserved!"

    Libertarian men are obsessed with female attractiveness and so are selected against because they only breed with women who meet certain standards of beauty. Right now that would be porn standards, which are mostly artificial anyway. If it is difficult for some men to overcome their repulsion in order to make love to a chubby chick, imagine how much more repulsive it would be for a woman to have sex with one, when she is really attracted to men. Most women are pretty obsessed with men during their reproductive years, unless they are lesbians and most of the lesbians I have met have had sex with men.

    Thanks for the personal anecdote.

    Yup, most guys just want a lady who is kind to them, appreciates them, and does not give them grief.
    Past a certain base line being pretty is a bonus.

    Also don’t discount the fact that falling in love with someone gives you a type of beer googles and makes the person more beautiful ….you know ” this lady (man) is so sweet, so kind, so ….why I never noticed it before but she (he) is ….she (he) is….beautiful (handsome).” LOL.

    Surprisingly, from my experience many beautiful ladies intuitively get this (or are taught this by their moms) …but some don’t until it is too late.

    I think ladies who are not so pretty figure it out quicker.

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  169. @Mark F.
    Yep, I'm gay and I can't help looking more and longer at attractive men as compared to women. If you can pick up on this, you will indeed get it right most of the time.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that. ;-)

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  170. @utu
    "a computer algorithm could correctly distinguish between gay and straight men 81% of the time, and 74% for women"

    Does it mean that out of 100 photos of straight men the algorithm will identify 19 as gay and out of 100 photos of gay men it will identify 19 as straight? Are the probabilities of correct identification for both sexual identities the same? I doubt it.

    No, it’s saying that given a pair of faces, one gay and one straight, it guesses right 81% of the time.

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  171. Reading these comments I started thinking about a phenomenon that’s true for gays but not true for, say, racial minorities.

    If I’m out (heh) and about on my own, you can’t tell.

    If I’m out with a gay friend who’s maybe a bit more put together than I am, you might wonder about us.

    But add one or two more random gays to the group and the subtle hints add up – like everyone’s hair is too good – and suddenly everybody just sees a table full of homos.

    What can ya do?

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    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    But add one or two more random gays to the group and the subtle hints add up – like everyone’s hair is too good – and suddenly everybody just sees a table full of homos.
     
    What is the collective nouns for homos? I'm sure it's not a "table." Maybe a Fabulous of Homos, or a Glitter of Homos?
  172. yeah says:

    Just 91% predictive accuracy? That is nothing. I can spot with 100% accuracy, no machine or AI needed: Just observe the subjects’ usage of their private parts and of their partners. Common sense licks pseudo-science!

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    • Replies: @larry lurker
    Norm MacDonald's anonymous joke writers beat you to it:

    "A new study shows that most men can identify a gay man by his face alone. It's the face that's ..." [NSFW punchline]

  173. @Anonymous
    You'd find a retrocomputer meet a complete blast then. I've been to several, and you see all types, including a fair number of fairly blatant M2F trannies that fit the autogynephilic meme to a tee. "Burger Becky" who used to be Burger Bill, for instance.

    Rebecca Ann Heineman (born William Salvador Heineman) is an American video game programmer. A long-time veteran of the computer game industry (originally credited mostly as Bill Heineman), Heineman was a founding member of Interplay Productions, Logicware, and Contraband Entertainment. She has also been affiliated at various times with Barking Lizards Technologies, Electronic Arts, Bloomberg, Microsoft, MacPlay and Ubisoft, among other game companies. Heineman works as the CEO[1] of Olde Skuul in Seattle, Washington.
     
    However, unlike, say, high end audio, which is full of mincing and flaming homosexual males, you rarely see gay acting gay men.

    VMS was (and still is) a great environment for what it was designed for, but the VAX platform, which was state of the art when it was designed, fell way behind on CPU power. They did migrate it to the superb 64 bit Alpha platform, but by then the company was senile in its management, and it was bought out by Compaq. They had no idea what to do with it and were themselves bought by HP, who during the Broad Restructuring mismanaged both its own and the new intellectual assets and technologies, betting the farm on Itanic, which flopped over like a dead mackerel.

    VMS is still out there:
    http://www.vmssoftware.com/

    You’d find a retrocomputer meet a complete blast then.

    Uhhh, after all the stuff you wrote afterwards about the, let’s say, colorful people there, I’m not sure I would fit in that well. I wouldn’t mind putting my name in the hat to win a punch-card writer or reader, so long as you don’t have to be there to, umm, don’t take this the wrong way … enter.

    Interesting stuff about the old computer world, Anonymous. Thanks.

    Haha, Burger Becky!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    90+ percent of the people are just regular old nerds. And they are respectful of each other's space. Very little chance of problems.
  174. Anonym says:
    @joeyjoejoe
    "The research found that gay men and women tended to have “gender-atypical” features, expressions and “grooming styles”, essentially meaning gay men appeared more feminine and vice versa. The data also identified certain trends, including that gay men had narrower jaws, longer noses and larger foreheads than straight men, and that gay women had larger jaws and smaller foreheads compared to straight women."

    There are two categories of characteristics here: personal choice (grooming styles, expressions, etc), and physiology (foreheads, jaw width, etc). In other words, nature vs nurture. It would be interesting to refine the AI: which category more identifies gays-the 'natural' category, or the 'nurture' category? This software could address the 'born gay or choice' issue. I'm not sure if it ever would, though-the answer to this question depends on the current political argument-which answer is most politically expedient at the moment.

    joey

    There are two categories of characteristics here: personal choice (grooming styles, expressions, etc), and physiology (foreheads, jaw width, etc). In other words, nature vs nurture. It would be interesting to refine the AI: which category more identifies gays-the ‘natural’ category, or the ‘nurture’ category? This software could address the ‘born gay or choice’ issue. I’m not sure if it ever would, though-the answer to this question depends on the current political argument-which answer is most politically expedient at the moment.

    It’s not so much nurture (i.e. environment influence on organism) as a behavior of the organism that emerges from the brain. Sure, a given hair style may be gay, but the desire to pay a lot of attention to personal grooming to attract male attention is a behavior.

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  175. e says:
    @Sunbeam
    Aside from any particular people, there also seems to be an extreme attraction to politics for gays.

    Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

    Personally politics has zero appeal to me. Give little speeches, make phone calls, TV appearances... bleh.

    Why the attraction to politics among gays (mostly gay men, from what I’ve observed)? I can think of two reasons: gays are famous for going into “people-oriented” jobs and careers rather than “thing-oriented” ones; second, politics is a field that, at it’s core, involves acting, performing. Yes, it’s the politician who does the acting in public but behind the scenes are those who love to be close to the performance. There a lot of gay males and yes, some lesbians working behind the scenes in the theatre.

    For the last few years I’ve called the offices of my two senators quite a bit, Feinstein and Boxer (retired recently.) Close to 100% of the time a gay male answered the phone of their offices in both DC and in the Bay Area. Gay voice is not hard to identify.

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  176. I was interested enough to download their paper and read it. And I’m not sure their 81% correct classification (amazing if true) is quite what they’re representing it as. That is, I’m not sure if the 81% is a legitimate measure of prediction on a hold-out sample — or just a measure of fit in-sample.

    Strangely for an academic paper, the authors don’t present their results in nice neat tables (usually in an appendix) showing the model specification, parameter estimates, and several measures of fit. If I could look at those details, I could know what they really did. In particular, I’d want to know if their “20-fold” estimation method resulted in a single model, or twenty. If the latter, then the study is worthless. If the former, then that’s better but there still remain ways for an unscrupulous author (or a scrupulous but methodologically naïve one) to engage in model fitting rather than true prediction.

    On balance, I’m inclined to think the authors screwed up, and the strongest evidence for that (in the absence of an appendix such as I’ve described) is that their model is a regression on 500 explanatory variables. That’s a huge number that practically screams “overfitting!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I look at the paper here: https://psyarxiv.com/hv28a/ and as always I am amazed that papers in fields like this are written w/o much clarity. And as always I suspect the lack of understanding and/or attempt of obfuscation on the part of authors..

    The overfitting certainly might be a problem. They do not say if the training set is the same as the test set. But it seems this is the case for the set of picts from the dating site where they get 81% score. But then they looked at others set obtained from Facebook. On which they obtained only 71% score but one face was always from the dating site score.

    I do not understand why their procedure is always to compare two faces of opposite sexual orientation. Why not run on all faces individually and produce the numbers of correct identifications of gays and straights as two separate scores?

    As I get older I have less and less patience for sloppy and moronic science. And it is unfortunate that this kind of science gets attention of Daily Mail, Guardian and even Economist.
  177. Anonym says:
    @kihowi
    There are two sorts of gay men. They are either perverts whose horniness is out of control, or men who are irreparably feminine. Of the former catagory, all have also had sex with women, of the latter few have.

    Lesbians are angry women whose shittests have gotten out of control. Usually the instinct to make it very difficult for men to win you is a good sexual strategy, but not when you do it to every man. If you don't overrule your vagina and settle for a pretty ok sort of guy instead of holding out for the mythically dominant man who you deserve, you'll end up with just sweaters and cats.

    There are a lot of lesbians who are just straight up mannish women. To me, the explanation that makes the most sense is that there are genes that confer such an advantage to the female in terms of reproductive success that they can result in a gay son (maybe only sometimes) and still be a net bonus. And the reverse gives rise to lesbians. If you have a skirt chasing, square jawed sports hero type, he may have a such a daughter.

    Maybe there are multiple factors though. Maybe it’s partly genetic, partly congenital, maybe there might be some sort of pathogen.

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  178. Anonym says:
    @Tyrion
    This is interesting but the fact that an AI can pretty accurately predict if a man is gay or not from his dating profile picture does not really force the conclusion that there is a gay face shape.

    The simple answer is that gay men choose to present themselves in a certain way especially during courtship and the neural networks picked up on that.

    I noticed recently that my phone has a beauty feature that narrows your face automatically. It also enlarges your eyes and smoothes out your complexion. The face narrowing surprised me, but then girls do tend to pout, elongate their jaws and suck in their cheeks when taking a selfie.

    They also spend a lot of time thinking about what makes them look better in pictures so that rarely are pictures even close to their reality - for millennials anyway. I imagine it's the same for gay men.

    Further to that, I read this from a previous if smaller study. Its conclusions on gay face shape are exactly opposite.

    “Gay men showed relatively wider and shorter faces, smaller and shorter noses, and rather massive and more rounded jaws, resulting in a mosaic of both feminine and masculine features,” according to the study."

    Also, there's the obvious points about hair, pulling feminine facial expressions and perfectly kept facial hair and so on.

    “Gay men showed relatively wider and shorter faces, smaller and shorter noses, and rather massive and more rounded jaws, resulting in a mosaic of both feminine and masculine features,” according to the study.”

    https://youtu.be/OE8WzYNRPNU

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  179. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Steve Sailer:

    “In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend”

    Actually, the most recent research indicates that male bisexuality does, indeed, exist. https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivqs_U65bWAhVEgJAKHSXDC2sQFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2011%2F08%2F23%2Fhealth%2F23bisexual.html&usg=AFQjCNFZEU4NzkUIDPTv1r_-FXQLo93mtg

    Previously, it was believed that men were either gay or straight, and that most or all women were bisexual. This came from previous poorly-done research that demonstrated that men only had erections to pictures of naked men or women, but never both. The new research showed that, indeed, there are men that get sexually aroused by both men and women.

    It does not surprise me that a topic about machines accurately assessing whether people are gay or straight would have so many replies. Straight men are completely paranoid about people thinking that they are gay. Deep down many men reading this are thinking:

    “Would the machine identify me as gay?”

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonguy

    Straight men are completely paranoid about people thinking that they are gay. Deep down many men reading this are thinking:

    “Would the machine identify me as gay?”
     
    That thought actually never occurred to me, but now that you've presented it, I'd be interested in the answer.
  180. Anonym says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?
     
    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I think for a lot of men (and women) being gay is a lifestyle choice. It is just one step up from solo masturbation, with the addition of an extra pair of hands, a mouth, and possibly other apertures, but makes it possible to avoid the responsibility of raising children, contributing to school fundraisers, spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, and attending school functions. Without children health insurance is much cheaper. You can also take vacations and travel at any time of year without being tied to school holidays.

    For many men who don't have women falling all over them, it is probably a rational choice if you don't mind the opprobrium, or can live and work in a milieu where you are accepted. For many women who are not attractive to men, having a female partner for mutual masturbation and shopping with zero risk of pregnancy is better than being alone. Women used to join convents for the same reasons.

    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I am not sure exactly, but it seems like there is a fair bit of smoke there.

    https://youtu.be/uHxBDf4WgWo

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  181. Anonym says:
    @jesse helms think-alike
    Regarding your last point about Hollywood casting.

    I read a Hollywood biography some years ago don't remember which but a relevant point that stuck in my mind was that, in choosing a female star the producer/director would ask himself of the female star: "Do I want to f*ck her?" to decide if a particular ingenue was a bankable potential star.
    When it came to potential leading men his intuition was faulty and so he asked his secretaries their opinion.

    As far as whether or not "gay face" is real it's been my experience that there are effeminate men or masculine women who are straight but more often than not they are what you think they are

    On a related note, I am pretty bad at telling whether a given newborn is going to be attractive. Women are generally good at this. I don’t know why this is.

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  182. Anonym says:
    @Sunbeam
    Aside from any particular people, there also seems to be an extreme attraction to politics for gays.

    Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

    Personally politics has zero appeal to me. Give little speeches, make phone calls, TV appearances... bleh.

    Why so many involved in politics? Other than the fashion and entertainment industry I imagine it has the highest amount of gay involvement of any endeavor in America.

    The attention, the backstabbing, the deceit, the gossip, the dressing up… I would think there is a lot to interest the gay man. A gay man is kind of like a female brain subject to male hormones.

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  183. whoever says: • Website
    @TheJester
    Gaydar is not that difficult to tune. I once read an article that related that homosexual men and lesbian women trolling for partners faced a practical need to project and advertise their sexual identity and availability to potential partners ... or they would otherwise come up zilch. Therefore, they do not make it hard for one to notice. They make it easy for one to notice. Indeed, that's the point.

    Makes sense. Otherwise, how would a dyke find her femme hiding within crowds of cisgendered women? Hence, the characteristic hair styles, the clothes, the gestures, the walks. Same for homosexuals.

    Finding unique genetically-driven geometrical patterns on the faces of lesbians and homosexuals is a different story. I'll wait for the story. I've known a number of very masculinized women (at least in appearance) who grew up on ranches in Wyoming and Montana. Wonderfully kind and sensitive traditional women who could ranch with the best of them.

    Also of interest is that lesbians and homosexuals are, at least in the social roles they play with their partners, binary. Their genitals might be the same. However, one typically plays the masculine role and one typically plays the feminine role. Hence, their alleged non-binary world is, in fact, a pale reflection of the larger, binary world they emulate.

    I’ve known a number of women who grew up on ranches in Wyoming and Montana. Wonderfully kind and sensitive traditional women who could ranch with the best of them.

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  184. Tyrion says:
    @Anonym
    “Gay men showed relatively wider and shorter faces, smaller and shorter noses, and rather massive and more rounded jaws, resulting in a mosaic of both feminine and masculine features,” according to the study.”

    https://youtu.be/OE8WzYNRPNU

    Wtf is that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonym
    It went viral in the earlier days of the internet.
  185. @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    Ha ha, Sailer's nervous: he doesn't want to in any way explore the nexus of child molestation (specifically the rape of boys) and sodomites. Some topics are taboo for even the hateyest of alt-right thinkers...

    Ha ha, Sailer’s nervous: he doesn’t want to in any way explore the nexus of child molestation (specifically the rape of boys) and sodomites. Some topics are taboo for even the hateyest of alt-right thinkers…

    Huh? Evidence Steve is nervous or this topic is taboo for him?

    Steve’s already posted about theories on the trans stuff that throw the tranny loons into screaming fits and have the SPLC hate-industrial-complex tacking on some more “hate” checkmarks.

    Give Steve something interesting to say on this topic and he might run with it.

    Note, i’m on board with you here. I have no doubt there’s a clear connection being the rape of boys and gays. The Catholic Church “pedophile” scandal wasn’t about a bunch of weirdo priests raping 8 year old girls and boys. The Catholic Church scandals were about 99% fag priests molesting 14-17 year old “boys”–i.e. prime fag fantasy targets. But the left/Jewish media absolutely didn’t want to point out that this was just a big fag rape fest, with homo-hierarchy enabling. Gays are victims, not perps! So the villain was Catholic traditionalism or something.

    The connection with “gay” and stuff like the Catholic Church “pedophilia” is blindingly obvious. The perps were pretty much all gay. If you’re talking about what most people think of as “pedophilia”–attraction to pre-adolescent kids, then I think it’s less clear. Those pedos would seem to be weird, weird people with some sort of biological error or screwed up upbringing (abuse) leading them to be way off kilter sexually. Since they are sexually screwed up and gays are sexually screwed up, i’d tend to expect the pedo bucket is more gay. But I don’t have any good data on that.

    Give Steve something interesting to link to here and maybe he’ll go for it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    The mainstream handwaving on the subject of the obvious gay/pedophile connection is pathetic. For instance, you always hear that straight men are more likely to be pedophiles. First of all, why are straight men raping adolescent boys? Oh, these are men who in their day-to-day lives "identify" as straight. Meaning they don't want their wives and children to know they're sexually attracted to males.

    Anyway, duh, obviously there are going to be more heterosexual/secretly bi-sexual/secretly gay pedophiles. Based on the most liberal estimates, there are 90% more non-gays than gays in the population. Of course more pedophiles are going to "identify" as straight if you pull them out of a pool full of supposed straights. This is like the trick they play with there being more white crime than black. Duh, blacks are only 13 or whatever percent of the population. Look at it proportionately, you unbelievable liars!

  186. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You’d find a retrocomputer meet a complete blast then.
     
    Uhhh, after all the stuff you wrote afterwards about the, let's say, colorful people there, I'm not sure I would fit in that well. I wouldn't mind putting my name in the hat to win a punch-card writer or reader, so long as you don't have to be there to, umm, don't take this the wrong way ... enter.

    Interesting stuff about the old computer world, Anonymous. Thanks.

    Haha, Burger Becky!!

    90+ percent of the people are just regular old nerds. And they are respectful of each other’s space. Very little chance of problems.

    Read More
  187. @peterike
    Science once again proves what you understood intuitively when you were twelve years old, before the Narrative shamed it out of you.

    What would be both more interesting and more useful is if AI could identify "pedo face." My guess is that it would be yes, but with a lower level of accuracy. But possibly better than 50/50.

    It might be hard to get volunteers as controls though.

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  188. utu says:
    @International Jew
    I was interested enough to download their paper and read it. And I'm not sure their 81% correct classification (amazing if true) is quite what they're representing it as. That is, I'm not sure if the 81% is a legitimate measure of prediction on a hold-out sample — or just a measure of fit in-sample.

    Strangely for an academic paper, the authors don't present their results in nice neat tables (usually in an appendix) showing the model specification, parameter estimates, and several measures of fit. If I could look at those details, I could know what they really did. In particular, I'd want to know if their "20-fold" estimation method resulted in a single model, or twenty. If the latter, then the study is worthless. If the former, then that's better but there still remain ways for an unscrupulous author (or a scrupulous but methodologically naïve one) to engage in model fitting rather than true prediction.

    On balance, I'm inclined to think the authors screwed up, and the strongest evidence for that (in the absence of an appendix such as I've described) is that their model is a regression on 500 explanatory variables. That's a huge number that practically screams "overfitting!"

    I look at the paper here: https://psyarxiv.com/hv28a/ and as always I am amazed that papers in fields like this are written w/o much clarity. And as always I suspect the lack of understanding and/or attempt of obfuscation on the part of authors..

    The overfitting certainly might be a problem. They do not say if the training set is the same as the test set. But it seems this is the case for the set of picts from the dating site where they get 81% score. But then they looked at others set obtained from Facebook. On which they obtained only 71% score but one face was always from the dating site score.

    I do not understand why their procedure is always to compare two faces of opposite sexual orientation. Why not run on all faces individually and produce the numbers of correct identifications of gays and straights as two separate scores?

    As I get older I have less and less patience for sloppy and moronic science. And it is unfortunate that this kind of science gets attention of Daily Mail, Guardian and even Economist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I do not understand why their procedure is always to compare two faces of opposite sexual orientations.

    I think da liegt der Hund begraben. The program (neural net - logistic regression) calculates gayness score for faces A and B from the pair of presented two faces and then the face with larger gayness score is decided to be gay and other straight. They get 81% correct results as opposed to 50% correct results if it was done randomly which is 1.62 better than random. But if the program had to decide whether a given face is gay or not w/o having a second face as reference the result would be much worse and it would be revealed that their program is not really that good on absolute scale. That's why they came up with this cumbersome scheme to present their results.

    And the 81% was on the set they trained the algorithm. When gay face was from Facebook and the heterosexual face was from the training set the result was 74% (1.48 times better than random).

    Being so deceptive and dishonest and creating hype should be punishable but unfortunately it won't be.
  189. whoever says: • Website
    @res

    Schizophrenia has a heritability of 0.8

    I’d research that with better sources.
     
    Like these?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826121/


    The concordance rates of schizophrenia for monozygotic twins have been found to be about 40 to 50%, and heritability estimates are around 80% 46,47.
     
    This one is interesting in that they get different results from twin and population studies: https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/doi/10.1093/schbul/sbw159/2549014/Familial-Aggregation-and-Heritability-of

    Heritability, the degree of genetic contribution to phenotypic variance, has been estimated to range between 41% and 87%.7–13 In general, heritability estimates derived from twin studies are higher than those based on the general population. One estimate for heritability based on a meta-analysis of 12 twin studies was 81%.12 However, an estimate calculated from the population-based data of the Swedish Multi-generation Register was lower, though still substantial, at 64%.13
     
    I tend to trust meta-studies (and twin studies are usually a good source of heritability estimates), but it would be interesting to understand the discrepancy.

    This one links to a paper: https://plus.google.com/103530621949492999968/posts/AnXMiqKpSji

    The probandwise concordance rate of schizophrenia is 33% in monozygotic (MZ) twins and 7% in dizygotic (DZ) twins. We estimated the heritability of schizophrenia to be 79%. When expanding illness outcome to include schizophrenia spectrum disorders, the heritability estimate was almost similar, 73%.

     

    And back to you:

    Wrong about what? I wasn’t asserting that there wasn’t a heritable influence. I was contesting the notion that heredity determines.
     
    No reasonable person thinks heredity is completely deterministic for any even mildly complicated trait. Unless you are going Motte and Bailey on me that is not what "It’s not hereditary." means. Perhaps you can clarify what exactly "It’s not hereditary" means to you? Is there a bound on the heritability values where that statement is and is not valid?

    Would you also assert schizophrenia is "not hereditary"?

    P.S. Thank you for helping me update my assessment of how seriously you take evidence presented to you. You really do seem to expect everyone to just take what you say on faith. Even when you don't engage seriously with counterarguments and evidence.

    Art Deco is a software program.

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    • Replies: @utu
    Software program trained on Upstate NY (Rochester-Buffalo) trivia.
  190. http://www.mlive.com/living/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/11/celibate_gay_author_says_you_c.html Christopher Yuan, Chinese gay becomes evangelical and celebate, So, some religious gays chose not to have sex. Chris can from being gay and a drug addiction to becoming religious because mom was evangelical and helped him when he was in prison for drugs. This is the other alternative, religion can make some folks chose celibately rather than do homosexual acts.

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  191. JackOH says:
    @Michelle
    It is a male conceit, and especially a Libertarian male conceit, that women of lesser attractiveness, and fat girls, get it on with other women only because men don't find them attractive. This is utter nonsense. Take a look around you. I see fat girls and lumpy girls and bowlegged girls, who have boyfriends and husbands and sometimes those boyfriends and husbands are good-looking. Just because you wouldn't screw her doesn't mean some other guy wouldn't. Some guys just like to be with a woman who is nice and appreciates them and doesn't give them grief.

    My dad left my mom, who looked like Cher, for my obese, stretch mark covered, baby sitter. Why? Because the baby sitter was nice, sweet natured and really thought my dad was a God (he wasn't) and that she would be lucky to have him (she wasn't). My mom treated him like crap, bitch, bitch, bitched at him all the time. She thought that because she had a hot bod, he would never leave her. My dad had 2 kids by the baby-sitter and they are both stunningly good-looking, and smart and happy, because they got some of their mother's sweet nature. So my dad made the right genetic decision.

    When I was 18 my ugly boyfriend left me for a really ugly woman who my friends warned me was in love with him and I would just laugh and cruelly point out how unattractive she was, and how unattractive he was, compared to my magnificence. I was mean to him too, just like my mom. I turned into a sniveling, snot dripping monster when he told me he was moving in with her. "But how could you leave me for her, she's so ugly!" I cried. "She loves me," he replied. I felt like Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. My dad used to say of Scarlett, "That bitch got everything she deserved!"

    Libertarian men are obsessed with female attractiveness and so are selected against because they only breed with women who meet certain standards of beauty. Right now that would be porn standards, which are mostly artificial anyway. If it is difficult for some men to overcome their repulsion in order to make love to a chubby chick, imagine how much more repulsive it would be for a woman to have sex with one, when she is really attracted to men. Most women are pretty obsessed with men during their reproductive years, unless they are lesbians and most of the lesbians I have met have had sex with men.

    Good points. My last girl friend was older than me and frumpyish, and she accommodated my failures, my Gloomy Gus personality, my basic solitariness, and was sexually responsive to me. Better by far than the manipulative narcissists whom I usually attracted. Seneca is right, too, about plain women looking better when you’re involved with them.

    FWIW-I’ve known very swishy guys who were very straight, married, and had fathered children. I’ve known “lumberjack fags”, sort of super-masculine guys, some married, who were known to have hopped the fence. Saw a jazz performance this summer by two very attractive, very desirable young women who were married–to each other. One local state university official estimated that fifty homos would take advantage of newly introduced “domestic partners’” benefits. The actual number was two out of about 3000 total beneficiaries.

    Long story short: I’ll believe this latest piece of purported AI capability when it’s replicated many times.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Michelle
    Truth be told I have a gay, half Iranian daughter. Her father looked like Freddy Mercury and she is gorgeous! She has a Mexican-American girlfriend. They both are more beautiful, by far, than most supermodels. My daughter gets stopped constantly while driving by local police and the highway patrol who are interested in "Getting her number". I call this phenomenon, Driving While Beautiful. She has never, ever, been interested in men, but men are very, very interested in her.
  192. utu says:
    @utu
    I look at the paper here: https://psyarxiv.com/hv28a/ and as always I am amazed that papers in fields like this are written w/o much clarity. And as always I suspect the lack of understanding and/or attempt of obfuscation on the part of authors..

    The overfitting certainly might be a problem. They do not say if the training set is the same as the test set. But it seems this is the case for the set of picts from the dating site where they get 81% score. But then they looked at others set obtained from Facebook. On which they obtained only 71% score but one face was always from the dating site score.

    I do not understand why their procedure is always to compare two faces of opposite sexual orientation. Why not run on all faces individually and produce the numbers of correct identifications of gays and straights as two separate scores?

    As I get older I have less and less patience for sloppy and moronic science. And it is unfortunate that this kind of science gets attention of Daily Mail, Guardian and even Economist.

    I do not understand why their procedure is always to compare two faces of opposite sexual orientations.

    I think da liegt der Hund begraben. The program (neural net – logistic regression) calculates gayness score for faces A and B from the pair of presented two faces and then the face with larger gayness score is decided to be gay and other straight. They get 81% correct results as opposed to 50% correct results if it was done randomly which is 1.62 better than random. But if the program had to decide whether a given face is gay or not w/o having a second face as reference the result would be much worse and it would be revealed that their program is not really that good on absolute scale. That’s why they came up with this cumbersome scheme to present their results.

    And the 81% was on the set they trained the algorithm. When gay face was from Facebook and the heterosexual face was from the training set the result was 74% (1.48 times better than random).

    Being so deceptive and dishonest and creating hype should be punishable but unfortunately it won’t be.

    Read More
  193. utu says:
    @whoever
    Art Deco is a software program.

    Software program trained on Upstate NY (Rochester-Buffalo) trivia.

    Read More
  194. jim jones says:
    @Off The Street
    Christina Ricci has one of the more prominent foreheads. Think of all the dating that she missed with the wrong hairstyle.

    Known on Reddit as a fivehead:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Fiveheads/

    Read More
  195. “Lesbians tend to seem like they just got dealt an overall more masculine set of genes on average than straight women.”

    More likely, an extra dose of testosterone from polycystic ovary syndrome.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovary_syndrome

    Read More
  196. sb says:

    ” it never occurred to us that someone could be gay ”

    So true . Times have certainly changed . And rather quickly at that .
    Anyone here remember Liberace and his tales of misfortune at his inability to find Miss Right ?
    Wasn’t he successful in a defamation action against some Brit tabloid which insinuated that he might be less than red blooded ?
    Even Elton John once went through a ( heterosexual ) marriage . In this regard the previous generation was closer to Oscar Wilde’s time than the present day .

    Read More
  197. e says:
    @Seneca

    If the cause is genetic, then either the gays are reproducing, or their relatives are somehow propagating their genes.
     
    Say a gene is recessive and does not express itself in the individual carrying the gene, but then is transmitted to an offspring in which it is not recessive and does express itself.

    Let's also say that this recessive gene increases the evolutionary fitness of the group (by reducing intragroup strife among males) but not the evolutionary fitness of the individual expressing it (i.e. gays don't reproduce).


    Couldn't this mechanism explain how this gene is carried forward and reproduced?

    In sum, the gene survives because it increases group fertility and fitness (by reducing mortality and intragroup strife among males .... a sort of safety valve if you will) even though when it is expressed it also at the same time decreases the fertility of the group by a factor of one.

    The individual who carries the gene in a recessive way benefits, because he and his other non gay offspring are likely to survive and reproduce in a stable society with minimal intragroup strife.

    It looks like a zero sum game, except in some instances its benefits to the group might outweigh its costs (reducing intragroup strife among males leads to increased group fitness and increased fertility)

    So, Gays are a sort of a sacrificial lamb or the cost of forming society around a group of competitive males.

    So Gays Take one for the Gipper .... jumping on the live hand grenade (alpha male intragroup sexual competitiveness) so that the group can survive.

    But then how does this explain female homosexuality?Does it reduce strife among alpha females in the group?

    Also does anyone know if homosexuality is ubiquitous? Does it exist, at least to some degree, in all societies in all times?

    This is an interesting article which suggests that homosexuality is not found in all cultures.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

    Full disclosure, not a biologist or geneticist ....Anyone want to chime in?

    For you, read: Start with the post listed last, “Depths of Madness” and read up.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/category/homosexuality/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seneca
    Thanks for the very interesting and informative link!
  198. Michelle says:
    @JackOH
    Good points. My last girl friend was older than me and frumpyish, and she accommodated my failures, my Gloomy Gus personality, my basic solitariness, and was sexually responsive to me. Better by far than the manipulative narcissists whom I usually attracted. Seneca is right, too, about plain women looking better when you're involved with them.

    FWIW-I've known very swishy guys who were very straight, married, and had fathered children. I've known "lumberjack fags", sort of super-masculine guys, some married, who were known to have hopped the fence. Saw a jazz performance this summer by two very attractive, very desirable young women who were married--to each other. One local state university official estimated that fifty homos would take advantage of newly introduced "domestic partners'" benefits. The actual number was two out of about 3000 total beneficiaries.

    Long story short: I'll believe this latest piece of purported AI capability when it's replicated many times.

    Truth be told I have a gay, half Iranian daughter. Her father looked like Freddy Mercury and she is gorgeous! She has a Mexican-American girlfriend. They both are more beautiful, by far, than most supermodels. My daughter gets stopped constantly while driving by local police and the highway patrol who are interested in “Getting her number”. I call this phenomenon, Driving While Beautiful. She has never, ever, been interested in men, but men are very, very interested in her.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JackOH
    "Driving While Beautiful". LOL.:) The Deputy Dawgs who're doing that are probably crossing a line somewhere.

    A lot of cops, in my opinion, tend to believe in "tells", the secret code hidden in the package of appearance and incidental behaviors that people present with. Hogwash. I used to be a pretty good salesmen, and I learned to distrust "tells" because they were reliable indicators of nothing at all.

    The son of a childhood friend of mine recently married a very big woman. She's cheerful, feminine, and seems to make him happy. As recently as twenty years ago I would have laughed no end at a guy who was marrying so far "down" in appearance. Likewise men who married Filipino or Korean women. Not anymore, or at least not so much. Women get a better-looking guy than they could have hoped for, men get a decent woman with fewer drama 'n' maintenance issues.
  199. guest says:
    @AnotherDad

    Ha ha, Sailer’s nervous: he doesn’t want to in any way explore the nexus of child molestation (specifically the rape of boys) and sodomites. Some topics are taboo for even the hateyest of alt-right thinkers…
     
    Huh? Evidence Steve is nervous or this topic is taboo for him?

    Steve's already posted about theories on the trans stuff that throw the tranny loons into screaming fits and have the SPLC hate-industrial-complex tacking on some more "hate" checkmarks.

    Give Steve something interesting to say on this topic and he might run with it.

    Note, i'm on board with you here. I have no doubt there's a clear connection being the rape of boys and gays. The Catholic Church "pedophile" scandal wasn't about a bunch of weirdo priests raping 8 year old girls and boys. The Catholic Church scandals were about 99% fag priests molesting 14-17 year old "boys"--i.e. prime fag fantasy targets. But the left/Jewish media absolutely didn't want to point out that this was just a big fag rape fest, with homo-hierarchy enabling. Gays are victims, not perps! So the villain was Catholic traditionalism or something.

    The connection with "gay" and stuff like the Catholic Church "pedophilia" is blindingly obvious. The perps were pretty much all gay. If you're talking about what most people think of as "pedophilia"--attraction to pre-adolescent kids, then I think it's less clear. Those pedos would seem to be weird, weird people with some sort of biological error or screwed up upbringing (abuse) leading them to be way off kilter sexually. Since they are sexually screwed up and gays are sexually screwed up, i'd tend to expect the pedo bucket is more gay. But I don't have any good data on that.

    Give Steve something interesting to link to here and maybe he'll go for it.

    The mainstream handwaving on the subject of the obvious gay/pedophile connection is pathetic. For instance, you always hear that straight men are more likely to be pedophiles. First of all, why are straight men raping adolescent boys? Oh, these are men who in their day-to-day lives “identify” as straight. Meaning they don’t want their wives and children to know they’re sexually attracted to males.

    Anyway, duh, obviously there are going to be more heterosexual/secretly bi-sexual/secretly gay pedophiles. Based on the most liberal estimates, there are 90% more non-gays than gays in the population. Of course more pedophiles are going to “identify” as straight if you pull them out of a pool full of supposed straights. This is like the trick they play with there being more white crime than black. Duh, blacks are only 13 or whatever percent of the population. Look at it proportionately, you unbelievable liars!

    Read More
  200. Wilkey says:
    @Sunbeam
    "This is just a guess, but I imagine we’ll eventually find out homosexuality is congenital, not hereditary."

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?

    It's not like the random factors aligned to inevitably produce someone genetically attracted to children.

    Leave it to others to speculate on why, carried disease, learned behavior (Nah, we all know everything is genetic, absolutely everything, and culture, parenting, and societal expectations do nothing. It's all sperm and ova all the way down.)

    Or I suppose it is an angle to make a story more interesting, or a common tactic for defense lawyers hoping for sympathy from the court for a heinous crime.

    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.

    But it sure seems like there is a non-zero correlation between molested children and them becoming molesting adults.

    Is that causation or is it correlation due to the fact that many of these people were molested by their own relatives? If there’s a genetic inclination to molest children then those who have been molested by relatives may turn into sexual predators not because of their experience but because of their genes.

    Read More
  201. Clyde says:
    @Stan d Mute
    OT - but related to Steve's baseball fascination

    By Sunday, Miguel Cabrera will be homeless. My old neighbor will find his boats sunken or inside his home. In fact, everyone on the beach or ICW will be homeless. At high tide near a full moon I've had water top my seawall and seen my boat within inches of grounding on my lawn. With a ten foot surge, every waterfront property will be destroyed. Even the highrises will be severely damaged with garages under water and flooding even in penthouses when 200+ mph gusts hit the hurricane glass windows with large debris.

    Irma is looking to be the worst natural disaster to hit America with damage estimates already above $100 Billion. Since virtually all of American elites have S Fla homes this will hit us all politically and economically (you don't expect billionaires to pay for their own losses do you?). And if she runs directly over Lake Okeechobee ... the entirety of Miami-Dade, Broward, and most of Palm Beach counties will be devastated. Monroe is done for regardless (no great loss there - farewell Conch Republic).

    Overlooked is Tampa which hasn't seen a hurricane in the modern era and is a cataclysm just waiting to happen. After Andrew I saw fifty foot boats perched in trees miles from the sea. And Homestead/Florida City was a dump before the storm. Tampa, if hit, will make Houston look like a lovely place to live.

    It will be interesting to see how well S Fla's extremely rigid building codes fare against F4 tornado winds sustained for hours. The absurd amount of development on the western edge of Miami-Dade and Broward, mainly due to immigration caused over-population between the Turnpike and I75, will also be interesting to watch (from afar) if the Army Corps of Engineers' levee fails (Okeechobee needs only about 6' to breach it). The Fanjul sugar plantations will be gone and you know we will all pay for that dearly. Look for blame on "Climate Change" (never simply man's stupidity in over developing land known prone to severe weather).

    I expect at least two of my former homes to be utterly destroyed with the third at risk from Okeechobee. I picked the right year to leave Fla anyway. For my many friends who remain, I hope all make it out. Irma is the mother of all storms about to hit a massive population center along with massive swamps and lake causing biblical flooding atop spectacular wind damage.

    Irma only a tangential hit to Miami is how it looks at this moment……. so no skyscraper glass windows apocalypse…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Irma only a tangential hit to Miami is how it looks at this moment……. so no skyscraper glass windows apocalypse…..
     
    The current track is probably worst case as the worst surge will hit the Gold Coast causing massive flooding on the beaches, biscayne bay, dumfoundling bay, lake maule, lake worth, the icw, etc. Downtown Miami has around 20+ construction cranes which can fail at wind speeds above 150 mph or so (one collapsed a few years ago without such winds). But it's the water more than the wind in every hurricane and Irma is looking very very bad on that front with the track forecast over Okeechobee and Tampa not to mention Naples, Fort Myers and Cape Coral. Remember charley in port charlotte? $16 billion in damage.

    Those of us who lived in S Fla for long enough mockingly call the forecast cone of uncertainty "the cone of death" due to the mindless panic it causes, but we are now seeing landfall just 90 miles from Florida and she's moving at 12mph so we have a very good idea where she'll hit at least in S Fla. Hope Matt Drudge has evacuated from the Redlands. ALL my friends and former neighbors (who mocked the "cone of death" with me) are long gone. This will be worse than Houston if it continues on track and will be the worst natural disaster in American history. Plus Jose is chasing Irma and looks to put another big surge ashore on the Gold Coast and Space Coast.

    I've ridden out many hurricane warnings in S Fla and laughed as I watched neighbors struggle to put up shutters, but I'd have been gone by last Wednesday like my friends for this one.
  202. JackOH says:
    @Michelle
    Truth be told I have a gay, half Iranian daughter. Her father looked like Freddy Mercury and she is gorgeous! She has a Mexican-American girlfriend. They both are more beautiful, by far, than most supermodels. My daughter gets stopped constantly while driving by local police and the highway patrol who are interested in "Getting her number". I call this phenomenon, Driving While Beautiful. She has never, ever, been interested in men, but men are very, very interested in her.

    “Driving While Beautiful”. LOL.:) The Deputy Dawgs who’re doing that are probably crossing a line somewhere.

    A lot of cops, in my opinion, tend to believe in “tells”, the secret code hidden in the package of appearance and incidental behaviors that people present with. Hogwash. I used to be a pretty good salesmen, and I learned to distrust “tells” because they were reliable indicators of nothing at all.

    The son of a childhood friend of mine recently married a very big woman. She’s cheerful, feminine, and seems to make him happy. As recently as twenty years ago I would have laughed no end at a guy who was marrying so far “down” in appearance. Likewise men who married Filipino or Korean women. Not anymore, or at least not so much. Women get a better-looking guy than they could have hoped for, men get a decent woman with fewer drama ‘n’ maintenance issues.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Charlotte Allen
    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    A pretty woman makes her husband look small
    And very often causes his downfall
    As soon as he marries her, then she starts
    To do the things that will break his heart
    But if you make an ugly woman your wife
    You'll be happy for the rest of your life
    An ugly woman cooks her meals on time
    She'll always give you peace of mind

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Don't let your friends say
    You have no taste
    Go ahead and marry anyway
    Though her face is ugly
    Her eyes don't match
    Take it from me she's a better catch

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Say man
    Hey baby
    I saw your wife the other day
    Yeah?
    Yeah, she's ugly
    Man, she's ugly but she sure can cook, baby
    Yeah? Alright...

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

  203. Seneca says:
    @e
    For you, read: Start with the post listed last, "Depths of Madness" and read up.


    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/category/homosexuality/

    Thanks for the very interesting and informative link!

    Read More
  204. @yeah
    Just 91% predictive accuracy? That is nothing. I can spot with 100% accuracy, no machine or AI needed: Just observe the subjects' usage of their private parts and of their partners. Common sense licks pseudo-science!

    Norm MacDonald’s anonymous joke writers beat you to it:

    “A new study shows that most men can identify a gay man by his face alone. It’s the face that’s …” [NSFW punchline]

    Read More
  205. @Clyde
    Irma only a tangential hit to Miami is how it looks at this moment....... so no skyscraper glass windows apocalypse.....

    Irma only a tangential hit to Miami is how it looks at this moment……. so no skyscraper glass windows apocalypse…..

    The current track is probably worst case as the worst surge will hit the Gold Coast causing massive flooding on the beaches, biscayne bay, dumfoundling bay, lake maule, lake worth, the icw, etc. Downtown Miami has around 20+ construction cranes which can fail at wind speeds above 150 mph or so (one collapsed a few years ago without such winds). But it’s the water more than the wind in every hurricane and Irma is looking very very bad on that front with the track forecast over Okeechobee and Tampa not to mention Naples, Fort Myers and Cape Coral. Remember charley in port charlotte? $16 billion in damage.

    Those of us who lived in S Fla for long enough mockingly call the forecast cone of uncertainty “the cone of death” due to the mindless panic it causes, but we are now seeing landfall just 90 miles from Florida and she’s moving at 12mph so we have a very good idea where she’ll hit at least in S Fla. Hope Matt Drudge has evacuated from the Redlands. ALL my friends and former neighbors (who mocked the “cone of death” with me) are long gone. This will be worse than Houston if it continues on track and will be the worst natural disaster in American history. Plus Jose is chasing Irma and looks to put another big surge ashore on the Gold Coast and Space Coast.

    I’ve ridden out many hurricane warnings in S Fla and laughed as I watched neighbors struggle to put up shutters, but I’d have been gone by last Wednesday like my friends for this one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    I will give you that three construction cranes were blown over by hurricane Irma. Plus a Foot Locker store raided.
    Glass panels plummet from 85-story Miami building after ...
    www.foxnews.com/.../glass-panels...miami-building-after-irma-hits.html
    Sep 10, 2017 · Glass panels fell from a high-rise building hundreds of feet tall in Miami, Florida, on Sunday, after Hurricane Irma pushed its way through the city.
  206. @Roderick Spode
    Source?

    ….
    These feminine men were an outlet for the aggression and unmet sexual needs of the tribe’s men.

    Source?

    It’s on the wall of a cave … hard to link to … take the main road out of Geneva, Switzerland into the Alps … hang a louis just past the Matterhorn, go up to 2300 metres, hang a right, and get out of the vehicle… take the first cave entrance to your left, and look on the wall, past the 14th stalagmite.* You’ll see your source, Rod.

    Man, you millenials think all the knowledge in the world can be hyperlinked to.

    .
    .
    .
    .

    Crap, it may have been the 14th stalagtite, not stalagmite. Hell, just follow the Chinese tourists – the girls taking the selfies while making peace signs – that’s where your source is.
    Oh, yeah, it’s in Neandertalese, I forgot to say, so you’ll need to bring an interpreter, say, maybe that Geico guy.

    Read More
  207. G Pinfold says:
    @Officious intermeddler

    Greg Louganis is no Rock Hudson. He is muscly like a ballet dancer.
     
    An ex-girlfriend of mine was a dancer. She claimed that contrary to popular opinion, most male dancers were not gay; however, whether gay or straight, all men who became dancers did it in the first instance for sex, they were all promiscuous, and they never had trouble finding willing partners, whether they wanted men or women.

    From which I conclude that Greg Louganis could have as many women as he wanted, if he wanted them.

    I think that is true. My point is that this question would be moot if Greg Louganis , or whoever, is, in the vernacular, a catcher. In which case, his prowess or otherwise at getting gals would not be top of mind.

    Read More
  208. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Look Sharp
    An app to spot gay men???

    Seems mighty queer to me.

    I don’t know about these folks in machine learning, but the folks I know who do similar research with human subjects are themselves very openly gay, in one case quite flamboyantly so. Which I don’t think necessarily invalidates the research; it’s just that they’re very interested in the topic for obvious reasons.

    Read More
  209. Corvinus says:
    @guest
    There's also the fact that college kids, unlike computers, were raised in a pozzed culture. I tuned into the show This Is Us not long ago, unfortunately, and I thought all the male characters were gay. (Except one, who was only featured in flashbacks from the 70s.) Which was confusing, because they were shown in romantic situations with girls. Then I realized that most of them were supposed to be normal guys.

    If you're immersed in the MSM, which to an extent you are even when you only log onto the Dark Corners of the Internet like iSteve, you are surrounded by men acting like women, women acting like men, and everyone acting like homos. It's confusing.

    Real life experience is helpful. College kids singularly lack it. They've been conditioned out of the natural instincts free-for-all of elementary playgrounds, but they haven't yet really left the cocoon, most of them.

    “There’s also the fact that college kids, unlike computers, were raised in a pozzed culture.”

    Actually, college kids have been raised in an American culture. Like all culture, it transforms. Generations tend to remember the “good stuff”, downplay the “bad stuff”, and complain about the “current stuff”.

    “I tuned into the show This Is Us not long ago, unfortunately, and I thought all the male characters were gay. (Except one, who was only featured in flashbacks from the 70s.) Which was confusing, because they were shown in romantic situations with girls. Then I realized that most of them were supposed to be normal guys.”

    Praytell, what is a “normal guy” to you?

    “If you’re immersed in the MSM, which to an extent you are even when you only log onto the Dark Corners of the Internet like iSteve, you are surrounded by men acting like women, women acting like men, and everyone acting like homos. It’s confusing.”

    Or perhaps that people are just acting the way that they want to without being confined to a structure you find comforting.

    “Real life experience is helpful. College kids singularly lack it. They’ve been conditioned out of the natural instincts free-for-all of elementary playgrounds, but they haven’t yet really left the cocoon, most of them.”

    You haven’t been paying close attention to elementary playgrounds or the halls of middle schools. Real life smacks those kids squarely in the face. It’s a free-for-all, just with different rules compared to your experience.

    Read More
  210. Logan says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    Have you ever noticed how in so many stories about pedophiles they themselves were molested as children?
     
    They often seem claim that in their own defense, but I cannot understand the logic at all. Surely if you were sexually molested as a child and hated it, you would absolutely not want to inflict the same thing on children when you were grown up. And even if you were sexually aroused when molested as a child by an adult, why would you be sexually aroused as an adult by the idea of sex with a child?

    I think for a lot of men (and women) being gay is a lifestyle choice. It is just one step up from solo masturbation, with the addition of an extra pair of hands, a mouth, and possibly other apertures, but makes it possible to avoid the responsibility of raising children, contributing to school fundraisers, spending Thanksgiving with the in-laws, and attending school functions. Without children health insurance is much cheaper. You can also take vacations and travel at any time of year without being tied to school holidays.

    For many men who don't have women falling all over them, it is probably a rational choice if you don't mind the opprobrium, or can live and work in a milieu where you are accepted. For many women who are not attractive to men, having a female partner for mutual masturbation and shopping with zero risk of pregnancy is better than being alone. Women used to join convents for the same reasons.

    There are a huge number of things men (mostly) get fixated on sexually. Feet, shoes, latex, leather, bondage, etc. I once read a paper about a guy who was sexually fixated on the exhaust pipes of running cars. Gently vibrating, dripping water, etc. Sounds really arousing!

    Few of them are logical because sexual attraction is absolutely not logical. It is a reaction, not something consciously controllable.

    One can, presumably, control actions taken on the basis of a sexual attraction, but even that becomes somewhat questionable for those who are compulsive.

    Read More
  211. @larry lurker
    Reading these comments I started thinking about a phenomenon that's true for gays but not true for, say, racial minorities.

    If I'm out (heh) and about on my own, you can't tell.

    If I'm out with a gay friend who's maybe a bit more put together than I am, you might wonder about us.

    But add one or two more random gays to the group and the subtle hints add up - like everyone's hair is too good - and suddenly everybody just sees a table full of homos.

    What can ya do?

    But add one or two more random gays to the group and the subtle hints add up – like everyone’s hair is too good – and suddenly everybody just sees a table full of homos.

    What is the collective nouns for homos? I’m sure it’s not a “table.” Maybe a Fabulous of Homos, or a Glitter of Homos?

    Read More
    • Replies: @larry lurker

    What is the collective nouns for homos? I’m sure it’s not a “table.” Maybe a Fabulous of Homos, or a Glitter of Homos?
     
    A pride. Pride of homos.
    , @EdwardM
    Gayggle.
  212. @JackOH
    "Driving While Beautiful". LOL.:) The Deputy Dawgs who're doing that are probably crossing a line somewhere.

    A lot of cops, in my opinion, tend to believe in "tells", the secret code hidden in the package of appearance and incidental behaviors that people present with. Hogwash. I used to be a pretty good salesmen, and I learned to distrust "tells" because they were reliable indicators of nothing at all.

    The son of a childhood friend of mine recently married a very big woman. She's cheerful, feminine, and seems to make him happy. As recently as twenty years ago I would have laughed no end at a guy who was marrying so far "down" in appearance. Likewise men who married Filipino or Korean women. Not anymore, or at least not so much. Women get a better-looking guy than they could have hoped for, men get a decent woman with fewer drama 'n' maintenance issues.

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    A pretty woman makes her husband look small
    And very often causes his downfall
    As soon as he marries her, then she starts
    To do the things that will break his heart
    But if you make an ugly woman your wife
    You’ll be happy for the rest of your life
    An ugly woman cooks her meals on time
    She’ll always give you peace of mind

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Don’t let your friends say
    You have no taste
    Go ahead and marry anyway
    Though her face is ugly
    Her eyes don’t match
    Take it from me she’s a better catch

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Say man
    Hey baby
    I saw your wife the other day
    Yeah?
    Yeah, she’s ugly
    Man, she’s ugly but she sure can cook, baby
    Yeah? Alright…

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Read More
    • Replies: @JackOH
    Charlotte, where do you find the time? Y'know, all that damned scribbling of yours.:) Thanks for the reference to that fun song from way back.
  213. e says:
    @Anon
    Sounds like pretty dumb literature. Sodomy and buggery are not exactly new terms.

    There are always extremes of sexual practices and the culture of the extremes can easily spread to the broad middle when communication is easy.

    Do you think young women in American society allowed their husbands to penetrate them anally a hunderd and fifty years ago. Did their husbands even want to?

    It’s hard to know just how prevalent that practice is today, but I’d wager a lot of money that it’s much more common than it was last century among heterosexual couples. Ditto oral sex.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    See kihowi's link #127.

    Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome .

    What literature are you referring to?

    Do you think young women in American society allowed their husbands to penetrate them anally a hunderd and fifty years ago. Did their husbands even want to?
     
    I really have no idea; I rather doubt it. http://www.catechism.cc/articles/marital-foreplay.htm is the first thing that comes to mind in that connection; not something that would be very important to gays though.
  214. Anon 2 says:
    @Lot

    and everyone acting like homos. It’s confusing.
     
    In Western Europe, more than half the young men you see walking around look gay. In Italy in particular. Basically, the majority set off Seinfeld crude version of gaydar: they were thin and neat, and wore non-baggy fashionable clothing.

    There is a joke about it:

    What do gay American men look like?
    They look like Frenchmen.
    And what do gay Frenchmen look like?
    They look like Italians.

    I’m always surprised when I land in France
    and see that typical slender look on both
    men and women (neck scarves help),
    especially compared to the heavier-boned
    Germans and Slavs

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  215. @Alec Leamas

    But add one or two more random gays to the group and the subtle hints add up – like everyone’s hair is too good – and suddenly everybody just sees a table full of homos.
     
    What is the collective nouns for homos? I'm sure it's not a "table." Maybe a Fabulous of Homos, or a Glitter of Homos?

    What is the collective nouns for homos? I’m sure it’s not a “table.” Maybe a Fabulous of Homos, or a Glitter of Homos?

    A pride. Pride of homos.

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  216. @Anonymous
    Modern transport category aircraft can handle tall pilots-6'7" would be pushing it, but it isn't out of the question.

    Bigger problem would be that you have to start out in smaller aircraft. In GA, 6' 7" would be a serious issue- you would have to start out in something besides the common Cessna 150 or 172. I knew an extremely tall guy that had one of those Grumman American things designed by Jim Bede-they had a sliding canopy, could be flown with it open, and he always wore a motorcycle helmet and goggles.

    I doubt a 6' 7" person could fit in either a T-37 or T-38, so wouldn't have been military.

    The US Air Force restricts pilots to 77 inches (and 64 on the low end). The US Navy restricts all personnel to no more than 80 inches. David Robinson enrolled at the Naval Academy while within the limit, then grew while there.

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  217. anonguy says:
    @Anonym
    It doesn’t work that way. Gay guys have super gaydar and apart from a weird minority that fetishize straight guys, generally don’t try to seduce straight guys.

    I am saying what I say from personal experience. That's one reason why my gaydar is very good. The other is that because of sales experience I have learned to read faces very well, so I pick up on little things about faces. Very often I will say about someone on TV - "He's gay." And my wife will say something like "But he has girlfriend/wife/kids, he's not gay, you're always thinking that people are gay." And invariably if you google you will find out that there is a lot of smoke or fire. Often it will come out years later that the guy comes out of the closet.

    I am very straight. But more often than not I'm also the best looking guy in the room. I get female attention which is nice (certainly more when I was younger :/ ) but I also get unwanted homosexual male attention. It's natural, when you think about it. Gays are attracted to good looking guys. It's natural for them to want to talk to a good looking guy. It's like why the more confident men will talk to a good looking woman even if they have no chance. Because of the attraction. The more forward and risk taking ones will move to proposition. The more realistic and risk averse ones will realise that it's not going to happen. (In all people when they are out of their league talking to someone, the patterns are the same, but women are usually less forward.)

    BTW one of the "mentoring" friendships I had with an older gay guy who I didn't realize was gay (because I was young) until probably months into the friendship yielded quite a bit of insight about gay men. Certainly in his case, most people would think that gay men should be attracted to homosexuals, and flaming homosexuals, but as he explained, he certainly wasn't. Like most females are, they are attracted to masculine, straight men (which is why the male body with a female-ish brain makes a lot of sense). The big turn on is to convert a straight man. But that's not going to happen in the majority of cases. It's a world of bottoms looking for a top. (Not exactly the same thing, but just because it would be all nice and tidy for male homosexuals to desire each other, and maybe they make do with each other for that reason, it's not necessarily what they want.)

    Anyway, that is my experience. I suppose you could argue that I'm secretly gay but in the age of internet porn I think I would have figured that one out by now.

    I’m at the opposite end of the gaydar spectrum, mine is basically non-existent.

    OTOH, I’ve always been reasonably popular with the ladies. The aging part, yeah, but I’m actually surprised by how much attention one can still get in their late 50s. Keeping your hairline and waistline is about 80% of the game IMO.

    Anyhow, I can see your point, that gay guys will be attracted towards straight guys but it takes rather bolder ones to actually proposition them.

    In my own life, when everyone started coming out of the closet in the 90s, I had a number of friends “come out”, some of them rather close.

    It was always a surprise in the moment, having no gaydar I never thought anyone was gay, but on reflection I’d think, yeah, makes sense. Every one I had always thought, ok, they are shy, low sex drive, who knows, wasn’t ever my issue, not something I ever gave a whole lot of thought to.

    But of course, in those days, there were a lot more closeted gays, so a lot more guys around who seemingly fit that profile, guys who didn’t have a current girlfriend, you just figured they weren’t that interested. This was a lot more normalized back then.

    Anyhow, this happened enough to me that I recognized a pattern, going back to middle school days at least, that I’d form friendships with gay guys without knowing they were gay. Not a central feature of my life, but common enough to see that it had been a recurring thing.

    And in retrospect, I could see that those guys had been attracted to me, that had definitely been part of it, but they had been content, or inhibited enough, to keep themselves in the friendzone with me. Also in hindsight, I could see where various of these friends had subtly tested the waters with me but I was too oblivious in the moment to have any idea of what was going on.

    [MORE]

    Again, back then, I always assumed everyone around me was straight, gays were in some other world, not mine, something I’d read or hear about, not something in my daily life.

    Here is an anecdote. Back in the late 90s, I was walking on the Capitol Crescent Trail in DC. If you haven’t been on it, it is an extremely very well traveled urban rail->trail.

    So an old friend of mine, who I didn’t even know was living in DC and who I had last seen/contacted 9 years before, is out on his bicycle workout. He was a serious athlete then, so he was hammering it and comes flying up behind me as I’m walking along.

    He comes screeching to a halt just as he passes me, shouts out my name, says he’d recognize that walk anywhere.

    No kidding, one glance, from a fast-moving bicycle, at the backside of average height/average weight guy from behind who he hasn’t seen for nearly a decade, having passed possibly hundreds just that day.

    The 90s, with all the gay coming out, was an interesting period in my life where I discovered that I had had a pattern of attracting gay secret admirers.

    Gave me a bit to think about, since I have zippo sexual interest in men. On the physical side of it, I’m ok looking, but my strong part is my body and by luck of genetic draw, not bodybuilding or anything.

    You know those proportions for men, chest/shoulder/waist/hip ratios that supposedly are enshrined in various statues and supposedly touch deep, unconscious chords in women, just the geometry of it?

    These vary somewhat depending on the source, but tend to be close and I very much tend to match these. Way back when I was in a USMC scout/sniper platoon, somebody came across some article about this with emphasis on greek statuary.

    So we all measured ourselves, did the calculations and I matched best and by a wide margin. So thereafter the joke in the platoon was that anonguy had the body of greek god.

    Kind of a subtle effect, but it does explain a lot.

    Supposedly women who have mates with lower sexual attractiveness have a heightened propensity to have one-nighters when they are ovulating (fertile) and have a tendency to do so with guys who tend towards these proportions.

    Definitely matches my experiences, periodically getting randomly picked, seemingly, by a woman stranger for a roll in the hay like right now, but no interest in me thereafter, they have some ongoing life/relationship they have no intention of disrupting/abandoning.

    I think it also helps explain the phenomena of unwittingly having an unusually large incidence of closeted gay friends back in the day.

    And I’m certain that it continues to play out in age-diminished manner by the amount of female attention I continue to receive quite unexpectedly at this stage of life.

    Anyway, that is my experience. I suppose you could argue that I’m secretly gay but in the age of internet porn I think I would have figured that one out by now.

    I’d say the same thing about myself.

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  218. anonguy says:
    @Anonymous
    Steve Sailer:

    "In contrast, male homosexuality seems more like a switch that is flipped. It’s not like diver Greg Louganis is gay because he doesn’t have enough muscles to attract a girlfriend"

    Actually, the most recent research indicates that male bisexuality does, indeed, exist. https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwivqs_U65bWAhVEgJAKHSXDC2sQFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2011%2F08%2F23%2Fhealth%2F23bisexual.html&usg=AFQjCNFZEU4NzkUIDPTv1r_-FXQLo93mtg

    Previously, it was believed that men were either gay or straight, and that most or all women were bisexual. This came from previous poorly-done research that demonstrated that men only had erections to pictures of naked men or women, but never both. The new research showed that, indeed, there are men that get sexually aroused by both men and women.

    It does not surprise me that a topic about machines accurately assessing whether people are gay or straight would have so many replies. Straight men are completely paranoid about people thinking that they are gay. Deep down many men reading this are thinking:

    "Would the machine identify me as gay?"

    Straight men are completely paranoid about people thinking that they are gay. Deep down many men reading this are thinking:

    “Would the machine identify me as gay?”

    That thought actually never occurred to me, but now that you’ve presented it, I’d be interested in the answer.

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  219. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @e
    There are always extremes of sexual practices and the culture of the extremes can easily spread to the broad middle when communication is easy.

    Do you think young women in American society allowed their husbands to penetrate them anally a hunderd and fifty years ago. Did their husbands even want to?

    It's hard to know just how prevalent that practice is today, but I'd wager a lot of money that it's much more common than it was last century among heterosexual couples. Ditto oral sex.

    See kihowi’s link #127.

    Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome .

    What literature are you referring to?

    Do you think young women in American society allowed their husbands to penetrate them anally a hunderd and fifty years ago. Did their husbands even want to?

    I really have no idea; I rather doubt it. http://www.catechism.cc/articles/marital-foreplay.htm is the first thing that comes to mind in that connection; not something that would be very important to gays though.

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  220. EdwardM says:
    @Alec Leamas

    But add one or two more random gays to the group and the subtle hints add up – like everyone’s hair is too good – and suddenly everybody just sees a table full of homos.
     
    What is the collective nouns for homos? I'm sure it's not a "table." Maybe a Fabulous of Homos, or a Glitter of Homos?

    Gayggle.

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  221. anonguy says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Run it on Lindsey Graham
     
    Haha! You could write a program using punch cards with his drivers license number as input and feed it into the old VAX/VMS, and it'd spit out a big:


    ==========================
    oxoxoxox .......... o ........ ox ...... xo
    o ...................... x x ........ x ...... x
    o ..................... o .. o ....... o .... o
    o .................... x .... x ....... x .. x
    o ..... oxo ...... oxoxox ......... o
    o ......... o ..... x ........ x ........ o
    o ......... o .... o .......... o ....... o
    o ......... o ... x ............ x ...... o
    oxoxoxo .. o .............. o ... .. o
    ==========================

    on a wide sheet of green and white striped paper in 15 minutes flat! Keep in mind, it took about half an hour to calculate all the primes up through 25.

    Keep in mind, it took about half an hour to calculate all the primes up through 25.

    25 is not a prime number, hoss.

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  222. JackOH says:
    @Charlotte Allen
    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    A pretty woman makes her husband look small
    And very often causes his downfall
    As soon as he marries her, then she starts
    To do the things that will break his heart
    But if you make an ugly woman your wife
    You'll be happy for the rest of your life
    An ugly woman cooks her meals on time
    She'll always give you peace of mind

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Don't let your friends say
    You have no taste
    Go ahead and marry anyway
    Though her face is ugly
    Her eyes don't match
    Take it from me she's a better catch

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Say man
    Hey baby
    I saw your wife the other day
    Yeah?
    Yeah, she's ugly
    Man, she's ugly but she sure can cook, baby
    Yeah? Alright...

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life
    Never make a pretty woman your wife
    So from my personal point of view
    Get an ugly girl to marry you

    Charlotte, where do you find the time? Y’know, all that damned scribbling of yours.:) Thanks for the reference to that fun song from way back.

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  223. @Hockamaw
    Off topic post, but dear God this is Steve bait if I've ever seen it:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/opinion/sunday/what-the-rich-wont-tell-you.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

    Over lunch in a downtown restaurant, Beatrice, a New Yorker in her late 30s, told me about two decisions she and her husband were considering. They were thinking about where to buy a second home and whether their young children should go to private school. Then she made a confession: She took the price tags off her clothes so that her nanny would not see them. “I take the label off our six-dollar bread,” she said.

    She did this, she explained, because she was uncomfortable with the inequality between herself and her nanny, a Latina immigrant.
     

    If you’re that rich, and if affluence is more about how you conduct your life than about flaunting your material wealth, why not spend a little more and hire a nanny who might have a positive effect on your children’s acquisition of the English language? Or is the racial caste system really that sacred to these people?

    Read More
  224. Gee, add a voice print to this algorithm and the accuracy shoots up to 99.9%

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  225. @Stan d Mute

    Interesting that you mention Conch Republic since Key West is a well known gay hangout. I know European homos that have vacationed there precisely because it’s a gay town.
     
    My sole issue with the gays is the public health risk posed by anal sex. Human fecal matter is deadly - period. Otherwise, I've enjoyed (greatly) the extra availability of women created by removing so many men from the pool in towns like Key West, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Ann Arbor, NYC, and Boulder/JeffCo. Of course deporting the gays to Africa would result in the same extra availability while removing the public health risk and deporting all the buggerers would (to the observations I've made) also remove most of the Africans to their homeland as well - so a double benefit since those two groups are the primary disease vectors for most sexually transmitted diseases.

    On target, Stan. Your solution would also contribute to diminishing the dangerous population explosion in Africa, and perhaps be the salvation of Europe.

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  226. @ATX Hipster

    they sampled people who have been brought up being told that straight and gay are just interchangeable choices. They should sample “homophobes” and see how they compare to the algorithm.
     
    Yeah, would be interesting to see the study repeated at Texas A&M or LSU and see if the gap between human & machine performance persists.

    This was my intuition too, but I’ve gotten burned on it a few times (as in, man, thought I was gonna hit that!)
     
    I hate to break this to you, but if you've noticed a pattern of straight-looking "lesbians" turning you down, it may be that you're not in the better class of men they want hitting on them.

    Yeah.

    I have a thing for very short hair, so I’m not talking about “lesbians” but actual lesbians, and while maybe not “better”, I am taller and broader than average, which is what I gather Steve was talking about.

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  227. Ted Bell says:
    @kihowi
    There are two sorts of gay men. They are either perverts whose horniness is out of control, or men who are irreparably feminine. Of the former catagory, all have also had sex with women, of the latter few have.

    Lesbians are angry women whose shittests have gotten out of control. Usually the instinct to make it very difficult for men to win you is a good sexual strategy, but not when you do it to every man. If you don't overrule your vagina and settle for a pretty ok sort of guy instead of holding out for the mythically dominant man who you deserve, you'll end up with just sweaters and cats.

    Milo Yiannopoulos doesn’t believe in lesbians:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V77t0eEkx7I

    My experience is similar to his. Of the dozen or so lesbians I’ve known over the years, I can’t think of a single one who’s never been with a man. And about half of them ended up hitting on me, at one time or another. I even know one woman who went out and found a tranny, purely so she could claim to be a lesbian, while still keeping the only part of a man she doesn’t hate. (yes, she’s currently working on her doctorate in some version of ethnic studies, in case there was any doubt)

    This is a somewhat foggy memory, as I simply didn’t care about homosexuality until WWG really picked up, but until around 2000 or so, didn’t lesbians generally claim they CHOSE their orientation? I thought that used to be one of the bigger points of contention in the LGBTQWERTY crowd, with the men saying they were born that way, and the women insisting it was a choice. Does anyone else remember it that way?

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  228. @George
    "smaller foreheads compared to straight women."

    Hey all you human biodiversity smarties: Is there an IQ interpretation here?

    An AI which estimates IQ would be very valuable.

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  229. @The Anti-Gnostic
    How about a big strobe light and loud buzzer, and neon flashing "GAY" sign if you walk in and trip the gAIdar. Ru Paul sashays over and drapes you in a pink feather boa. A photo is taken and instantly posted on Grindr.

    GLORIA GAYNOR TAUGHT ME TO SING A SONG

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  230. Morton says:

    Fascinating, although I don’t yet quite accept that a robot could do a better job than me of identifying inverts. However. I am interested in the subject, and I look forward to more information. As for me, I detect gays visually and/or acoustically all the time, but I never have an opportunity to check my conclusions, so I have no idea how accurate my guesses are. The same applies to Koreans. I pride myself on being able to tell Koreans from other Orientals, but it may be that I just automatically assume that when I see an Oriental acting in a crude and boorish way, he must be Korean. Who knows? my failure rate might be embarrassing.

    Telling sexual preferrence by looks seems to be a very difficult job to me. Sure, there are some deviants who act or dress outrageously, but if he’s trying to pass, hmm, I wonder.

    I do remember a TV show where the contestants were asked to identify the occuptions of people they didn’t know by only their appearance. I was miserable at the game, but some people were incredibly accurate with their guesses. Maybe it is possible to identify homos. Maybe I just don’t have what it takes.

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  231. Clyde says:
    @Stan d Mute

    Irma only a tangential hit to Miami is how it looks at this moment……. so no skyscraper glass windows apocalypse…..
     
    The current track is probably worst case as the worst surge will hit the Gold Coast causing massive flooding on the beaches, biscayne bay, dumfoundling bay, lake maule, lake worth, the icw, etc. Downtown Miami has around 20+ construction cranes which can fail at wind speeds above 150 mph or so (one collapsed a few years ago without such winds). But it's the water more than the wind in every hurricane and Irma is looking very very bad on that front with the track forecast over Okeechobee and Tampa not to mention Naples, Fort Myers and Cape Coral. Remember charley in port charlotte? $16 billion in damage.

    Those of us who lived in S Fla for long enough mockingly call the forecast cone of uncertainty "the cone of death" due to the mindless panic it causes, but we are now seeing landfall just 90 miles from Florida and she's moving at 12mph so we have a very good idea where she'll hit at least in S Fla. Hope Matt Drudge has evacuated from the Redlands. ALL my friends and former neighbors (who mocked the "cone of death" with me) are long gone. This will be worse than Houston if it continues on track and will be the worst natural disaster in American history. Plus Jose is chasing Irma and looks to put another big surge ashore on the Gold Coast and Space Coast.

    I've ridden out many hurricane warnings in S Fla and laughed as I watched neighbors struggle to put up shutters, but I'd have been gone by last Wednesday like my friends for this one.

    I will give you that three construction cranes were blown over by hurricane Irma. Plus a Foot Locker store raided.
    Glass panels plummet from 85-story Miami building after …
    http://www.foxnews.com/…/glass-panels…miami-building-after-irma-hits.html
    Sep 10, 2017 · Glass panels fell from a high-rise building hundreds of feet tall in Miami, Florida, on Sunday, after Hurricane Irma pushed its way through the city.

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