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Affirmative Action vs. Reparations
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Affirmative action was set up 50 years ago in part as reparations for American slavery, but it has tended to evolve into a bizarre system of preferences for those least impacted by American slavery.

Here’s a classic example of the 2004 complaint of Harvard professors Henry Louis Gates and Lani Guinier that a huge fraction of Harvard’s affirmative action for blacks goes to individuals who aren’t descended from American slaves, are instead descended from foreign elites and/or white parents or grandparents. From the Harvard Crimson in 2006:

Maxwell’s graduation wraps up family tradition
College senior is fifth sister to graduate


BY Alvin Powell, Harvard News Office

DATE June 15, 2006

“Education,” Irene Maxwell told her five daughters, “is the only thing that you can take all you want and there’s plenty left for everyone else. So make sure you take your share.”

Maxwell’s daughters, Cindy ’92, Linda ’96, Rita ’98, Ada ’02, and Dina ’06, heeded their mother’s advice, each in her turn making the long trek from New Brunswick, Canada, to Cambridge, Mass., to take their share of the education that Harvard has to offer.

On Thursday (June 8), with Dina’s graduation with the Class of 2006, the Maxwell’s 18-year association with Harvard – as undergraduates at least – finally ended. …

Cindy said it never was a family plan for them all to attend. Her parents – Irene and her father Samuel, a Ghanaian physician, who died 10 years ago – encouraged them to go to college, she said. When Cindy was getting ready to graduate from New Brunswick High School she was considering mainly Canadian colleges. That changed one day when her mother suggested on a car ride that Cindy apply to an American Ivy League school.

Foreign? CHECK
White Parent? CHECK
Descended from slaveseller? CHECK

 
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  1. I don’t do this often, but SIGH…. What do you think, Steve, that people are going to play fair? Once the unconstitutional Affirmative Action rules were set up to benefit one group, (at the expense of white males in particular, BTW) via a program of US Gov’t coercion, what would make you think that it wouldn’t get abused by anyone else?

    What we don’t agree on is that I don’t think AA was EVER right, even for descendants of slaves. As reparations for slaves themselves, I could see it, but there were hardly any former slaves left even by 1965. Come to think of it, I could see some Ghanian deserving the easy way in to Harvard more than lots of American blacks, but it’s wrong either way.

    END IT, DON’T MEND IT!

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @anon
    Reparations are never justified. Groups are not individuals. When will people learn this elementary lesson?
    If you rob me, you must pay.
    If your grandfather robbed my grandfather forty years ago, you owe me nothing.
    It doesn't matter if you inherited the stolen money from your grandfather.
    It doesn't matter if my father had to start from scratch after grandad was robbed.
    Life goes on, people start from where they start, and achieve what they can.
    What counts is the rule of law today to ensure no robbery today.
    Reparations are old quarrels prolonged, like the Hatfields and McCoys still killing each other twenty years after the feud started over a stolen pig.
    And besides, as ISteve bloggers know, today's failures by blacks are not caused by yesteryear's slavery. It's the genes, the genes, the genes.
  2. $115, 758

    That’s the maximum refundable child tax credit for non-income taxpayers for 18 years.

    $6,431 x 18 = way more than $80k (see above)

    Subtract to account for the lag time between births, and you will see that many womb-productive, Black females have already gotten their reparations, just in the refundable child tax credit money that they can spend freely on tattoos, beach trips with boyfriends or anything that makes up for the hard, unpaid labor of ancestors with .00001 shared DNA. This does not count their free or reduced-cost rent, monthly cash assistance, free electricity or free EBT food.

    Many of the white single moms whose ancestors were brought to the USA from Britain & Ireland as slaves have likewise received their reparations in this manner, even though their ancestors’ enslavement goes further back in time—wayyy back to the pre-Constitution days of the early settlers. With 47 million potential descendants of white slaves in the USA, the broke US government simply cannot afford it, not even after subtracting out the white and Black single moms who have gotten their reparations ten times over.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/05/03/white-people-will-be-rubbed-out-along-with-their-history/

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    “Womb-productive” — interesting trigger phrase you keep using over and over. You definitely fail the Voight-Kamff test.

    I wonder who you were previously — your appearance roughly coincides with Tyrion 2’s sudden disappearance. And that douche was responsible for perhaps 10% of posted comments in 2018.

    Or maybe Mishra? Who admitted to sock-puppeting.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  3. @Endgame Napoleon
    $115, 758

    That’s the maximum refundable child tax credit for non-income taxpayers for 18 years.

    $6,431 x 18 = way more than $80k (see above)

    Subtract to account for the lag time between births, and you will see that many womb-productive, Black females have already gotten their reparations, just in the refundable child tax credit money that they can spend freely on tattoos, beach trips with boyfriends or anything that makes up for the hard, unpaid labor of ancestors with .00001 shared DNA. This does not count their free or reduced-cost rent, monthly cash assistance, free electricity or free EBT food.

    Many of the white single moms whose ancestors were brought to the USA from Britain & Ireland as slaves have likewise received their reparations in this manner, even though their ancestors’ enslavement goes further back in time—wayyy back to the pre-Constitution days of the early settlers. With 47 million potential descendants of white slaves in the USA, the broke US government simply cannot afford it, not even after subtracting out the white and Black single moms who have gotten their reparations ten times over.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/05/03/white-people-will-be-rubbed-out-along-with-their-history/

    “Womb-productive” — interesting trigger phrase you keep using over and over. You definitely fail the Voight-Kamff test.

    I wonder who you were previously — your appearance roughly coincides with Tyrion 2’s sudden disappearance. And that douche was responsible for perhaps 10% of posted comments in 2018.

    Or maybe Mishra? Who admitted to sock-puppeting.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer, Tusk
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Always make up words, nicknames and phrases and use them a lot to see if they go mainstream. Like "sniglets"-remember those?

    Famous tech hoodoo Don Lancaster has been at it for decades. Maybe i he came up with new ones from time to time he'd succeed eventually.

    https://www.tinaja.com/whtnu12.shtml#d04-03-12
    , @Redneck farmer
    I was wondering if EN is either a gay guy or barren female, myself. But you show other possible posters.
    , @Lot
    I recall Tyrion being British and with a little better style than Endgame. I like Endgame’s point in the above comment though!
    , @HammerJack
    FWIW, I think Endgame Napoleon is much smarter than Tyrion ever was. Anyway who knows who's who? Reminds me of who; whom. I say play the game, not the player.
  4. I thought Affirmative Action was reparations. Add to that free education and you should be on your way.

  5. “hey hey we’re the grifters
    And people say we grift around,
    But we’re too busy signing
    And put whitey down.”

  6. in reality affirmative action is society’s way of conning blacks into thinking they are producers rather than takers–look at Barry Obama (a perfect example)–he goes to HLS to become a brilliant constitutional law professor and ends up being laughed at by U Chicago faculty as he teaches Rules 4 Radicals–bottom line, affirmative action? thy name is mendacity–a masquerade. when will some brave sci-fi director produce a film about what happens to blacks after all whites return to either Europe or Australia? LOL. Priceless. Title it, “Sheet, Where Did Mr Honkie Go?”

    • Replies: @J S Raggmann
    I think we should go to Mars and leave the People of Color here to enjoy Earth. Recent experience has shown that, in going to Australia or Europe, we are not going far enough.

    If any Tribal Members, Catholic Family Services doofs, or Lutheran Social Services doofs manage to smuggle themselves to Mars and suggest that we might improve the vibrancy of our culture by importing some diversity, then we should eject those miscreants into deep space with just a single small tank of breathing air.
  7. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @BenKenobi
    “Womb-productive” — interesting trigger phrase you keep using over and over. You definitely fail the Voight-Kamff test.

    I wonder who you were previously — your appearance roughly coincides with Tyrion 2’s sudden disappearance. And that douche was responsible for perhaps 10% of posted comments in 2018.

    Or maybe Mishra? Who admitted to sock-puppeting.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Always make up words, nicknames and phrases and use them a lot to see if they go mainstream. Like “sniglets”-remember those?

    Famous tech hoodoo Don Lancaster has been at it for decades. Maybe i he came up with new ones from time to time he’d succeed eventually.

    https://www.tinaja.com/whtnu12.shtml#d04-03-12

  8. Fredericton is the provincial capital of New Brunswick.

    According to Google maps it takes 6 hours 36 minutes to drive from there to Harvard University.

    According to Google maps it takes 7 hours to drive from Washington DC to Harvard University.

    Does that sound like a “long trek from New Brunswick, Canada” ?

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    You forgot to include that racist border crossing where coloreds are subjected to burdensome extra special scrutiny coming and going.
    , @Jack D
    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 - the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn't mesh well with the Brits - didn't speak the language, didn't identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for "journey of colonial conquest by racists" and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it's true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family - otherwise, even on a doctor's salary, it's hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls - you are talking upwards of $1 million US.
  9. Anonymous[313] • Disclaimer says:

    Did African slaves have better lives in the United States than they would have in Africa?

    • Replies: @L Woods
    They had better lives than most “free” whites.
  10. One grim irony of more educationally qualified African immigrant kids receiving the benefits of AA policies is that they are likely the descendants of those that sold the ancestors of American blacks into slavery.

    I’m in Malaysia, home to a massive society wide AA program in favor of the native bumiputera majority vs. the high horsepower Chinese and Indian minorities. I could talk all day about the long term problems that this has caused and the similarities and differences with America, but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn’t turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @TelfoedJohn
    Is there any place in the world where affirmative action was truly temporary, and has now been repealed? I think it was supposed to be temporary in South Africa too.
    , @jim jones
    When the bumiputera get their AA degree they all leave the country and head for the UK
    , @Alec Leamas

    . . . but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn’t turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.
     
    In 2003's Grutter v. Bollinger the majority opinion written by JUSTICE O'Connor set a 25 year prospective sunset for the Constitutionality of Affirmative Action.

    With a mere nine years left, you'd expect more discussions of the end of Affirmative Action.
  11. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Affirmative action was set up 50 years ago in part as reparations for American slavery, but it has tended to evolve into a bizarre system of preferences for those least impacted by American slavery.

    I don’t know if it evolved this way or if it was the original tacit intention.

    I don’t think institutions like Harvard necessarily envisaged affirmative action, at least at their elite institutions, going to the blackest, most benighted and ignorant blacks from the inner city or wherever. Rather they probably always imagined it going to blacks who could lead and represent “the community”, while at the same time not being so black that they couldn’t navigate elite white circles. Naturally, this has meant promoting light skinned, foreign, and part white blacks.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Harvard admitted a number of inner city youths in the 1970s, but unfortunate incidents tended to ensue, so it switched to preppier blacks.
    , @Ed
    This is exactly what Harvard had in mind. Harvard has been admitting blacks since the 19th century. WEB DuBois received his PhD from there. They wanted the best of the “Negro Race”. Unfortunately the 60s happened and it’s been down hill from there.
    , @Anonymous
    Like Prohibition, Affirmative Action is based on an optimistic view of human nature. Prohibitionists believed that people were born basically straight and orderly, and were led astray by alcohol. Just take away the alcohol and you'll have a better society. After a few years however, the sad truth became apparent: It's not alcohol that turns people into screw-ups. It's screw-ups who turn into alcoholics.

    Similarly, Affirmative Action was established in the optimistic belief that certain ethnic groups are messed up because they were historically oppressed. Remove the oppression, give them a helping hand, and they'll soon be just like everybody else. The dark truth, which few people want to accept, is that the causality runs the other way: They aren't backward because they were oppressed; they were oppressed because they were backward.
  12. Do you see these 5 sisters as a whole contributing even 1/100th of the intellectual value that someone like Jared Diamond has given the world? I don’t either.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    • Replies: @HammerJack

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.
     
    Similarly to my remark just above: this would possibly be true if Harvard's peers weren't frantically doing the very same things.
    , @Anon
    Harvard has two graduates with a Nobel in Literature, but your (((Jared))) isn't one of them. The "Harvard brand" was "given to the world" by the hundred Nobels, not by TV personalities.
    , @Anonymous

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.
     
    The further down it goes, the better for America.
    , @Kylie
    "The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere."

    It already has. As has the rest of the Ivy League.
    , @bjondo
    the harvard, ivy league brand is longtime crap
    'cause of dershowitz, summers, kissinger, bernanke,
    paulson, ilk.

    famous for doing great harm not good.

    other ivy grads barely mediocre, eg, natalie hershshlag

    elsewhere,

    Indianapolis 500 will be AI drivers only.

    If successful, NASCAR will do same.

    saves on prize money and blondes having to kiss sweat and fumes.

  13. IF, only IF it means both ideas/programs/assaults/from African Americans who want reparations; ends with actual DNA tests of family who were slaves. Programs die after families have had the correct genealogy declare slave or not slave family member.

  14. I hope blacks get reparations because then I’ll make a fortune in grape soda and menthol futures.

  15. When Herman Wouk died recently at the age of 103, NPR called him “The Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction.”

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/17/468790231/herman-wouk-the-jackie-robinson-of-jewish-american-fiction-dies-at-103

    Well, within their story they peg that one on Jonathan Karp:

    “He really was the Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction,” says Jonathan Karp, president and publisher of Simon & Schuster.

    I just think he must have had a really good health-care plan.

    ETA: Is our Reg the Angel of Death?! Doris Day and now this?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/career-advice-from-hakan-rotmwrt/#comment-3176738

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    There weren't that many celebrated Jewish-American novelists until after WWII, although there had been numerous Jewish playwrights, screenwriters, comic book writers, etc. before then.
    , @Anonymous

    “He really was the Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction,” says Jonathan Karp, president and publisher of Simon & Schuster.
     
    What does this mean? That he was the first black to write Jewish American fiction?
    , @stillCARealist
    I've read several of his books, and I didn't realize he was Jewish until he died. Maybe it was on the covers of the books or something, but I just thought about how I was reading great stories, not Jackie Robinson.
  16. The Dad died in 1996? Under what suspicious circumstances? Or could he just not take it anymore? The living with six, “Hear me roar!” women, I mean.

    • LOL: bomag
  17. Foreign? CHECK
    White Parent? CHECK
    Descended from slaveseller? CHECK

    On the other hand …

    Giving birth to five children! CHECK!

  18. Does anyone ever notice that overwhelmingly, the ‘blacks’ able to function in society at anything above the level of manual laborer — and overwhelmingly, those who benefit from affirmative action — are an average of maybe 40% black, genetically?

    Effectively, nothing is done for actual, 80-100% black blacks — they’re usually too dumb to take advantage. This doesn’t especially disturb me — although they could be better cared for — but it’s worth pointing out.

    • Replies: @Cortes
    In “To Kill A Mockingbird” Atticus Finch says at one point something along the lines of “the most disgusting thing is a white person taking advantage of a black man.”

    James Thompson of this parish illustrated

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-7-tribes-of-intellect/?highlight=Five

    the very large numbers of people whose understanding of the world is (let’s be generous) sketchy. Don’t those people need some protection from the sharks... and from themselves?

    Asking for a friend.
  19. @BenKenobi
    “Womb-productive” — interesting trigger phrase you keep using over and over. You definitely fail the Voight-Kamff test.

    I wonder who you were previously — your appearance roughly coincides with Tyrion 2’s sudden disappearance. And that douche was responsible for perhaps 10% of posted comments in 2018.

    Or maybe Mishra? Who admitted to sock-puppeting.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    I was wondering if EN is either a gay guy or barren female, myself. But you show other possible posters.

  20. I recall reading that the reason for affirmative action was because of people saying “we don’t know any blacks who do this job”. When rolling AA out, this was dumped in favor of ” making amends for slavery and Jim Crow”.

  21. • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Hope it happens! I can hear the weeping and lamentations of their women now!
    , @Another Canadian
    In Canada, sponsors are financially responsible for landed immigrants for up to 10 years. This enforcement of existing law shouldn't be controversial at all, but in America everything is controversial.
  22. @BenKenobi
    “Womb-productive” — interesting trigger phrase you keep using over and over. You definitely fail the Voight-Kamff test.

    I wonder who you were previously — your appearance roughly coincides with Tyrion 2’s sudden disappearance. And that douche was responsible for perhaps 10% of posted comments in 2018.

    Or maybe Mishra? Who admitted to sock-puppeting.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    I recall Tyrion being British and with a little better style than Endgame. I like Endgame’s point in the above comment though!

  23. anon[213] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I don't do this often, but SIGH.... What do you think, Steve, that people are going to play fair? Once the unconstitutional Affirmative Action rules were set up to benefit one group, (at the expense of white males in particular, BTW) via a program of US Gov't coercion, what would make you think that it wouldn't get abused by anyone else?

    What we don't agree on is that I don't think AA was EVER right, even for descendants of slaves. As reparations for slaves themselves, I could see it, but there were hardly any former slaves left even by 1965. Come to think of it, I could see some Ghanian deserving the easy way in to Harvard more than lots of American blacks, but it's wrong either way.

    END IT, DON'T MEND IT!

    Reparations are never justified. Groups are not individuals. When will people learn this elementary lesson?
    If you rob me, you must pay.
    If your grandfather robbed my grandfather forty years ago, you owe me nothing.
    It doesn’t matter if you inherited the stolen money from your grandfather.
    It doesn’t matter if my father had to start from scratch after grandad was robbed.
    Life goes on, people start from where they start, and achieve what they can.
    What counts is the rule of law today to ensure no robbery today.
    Reparations are old quarrels prolonged, like the Hatfields and McCoys still killing each other twenty years after the feud started over a stolen pig.
    And besides, as ISteve bloggers know, today’s failures by blacks are not caused by yesteryear’s slavery. It’s the genes, the genes, the genes.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yep, making the sons pay for the sins of the fathers is Old Testament stuff. Are we really gonna keep going there, for guidance on how to govern?
  24. Raj Chetty has a thought-provoking Harvard undergrad lecture video on African-American long-term economic underperformance. He uses a “data driven” methodology so he does not start with lots of ridiculous theories about long-term impact of slavery, Jim Crow era oppression, etc.; he just graphs the micro data from a range of different angles.

    Chetty never says it aloud, but the whole lecture just screams of human biodiversity as the explanation. Watching the lecture is like the experience of sitting in a classic Christmas pantomime where the play’s hero stands at the front of the stage looking out at the audience of youngsters, with the bad guy standing right behind him holding a giant axe. All the children scream “HE’S BEHIND YOU! HE’S BEHIND YOU!” but the hero ignores them and rattles on about nonsense. The Harvard students should be screaming at Raj Chetty “IT’S GENETIC DIFFERENCES! IT’S GENETIC DIFFERENCES!” but of course none of them dare to say a word. To be fair to these young people, if any of them did dare to speak up truthfully, they would be hounded off campus by an angry mob.

    Near the end of the lecture, Chetty is forced to offer some theoretical framework for his data-driven results and of course he takes the only politically acceptable line – it must all be environmental. The last four minutes are a big disappointment where he ignores all his data and chooses the political correct ideology instead. It is called Lecture 10 Racial Disparities in Economic Opportunity:

  25. Hey, the fact that I had Dutch and English slave-traders in the family tree didn’t stop me from ticking the African American box on my grad school application. My hair is kinky enough to make a case. Now, how can I gets me some of that good reparations money?

    • Replies: @Lot
    Sounds like you already got some.
  26. @Lot
    Trump: time for some taxpayer reparations!

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/23/trump_to_bill_sponsors_for_immigrants_welfare_benefits.html

    Hope it happens! I can hear the weeping and lamentations of their women now!

  27. OT: Well, there goes the Kerbal Space Program

    NASA exec in charge of Artemis moon mission quits after just 6 weeks, ‘escorted out of HQ’

    Mark Sirangelo, who joined NASA less than two months ago as special assistant to agency chief Jim Bridenstine on the Artemis project, has left his post after his proposal for a “sustainable lunar campaign” was nixed by Congress.

    Sirangelo “was escorted out of NASA’s headquarters in Washington” after he resigned, according to two sources who spoke to Reuters, “to pursue other opportunities.” Sirangelo joined the agency in April to organize a dedicated “mission directorate” focused on achieving the goals of the Artemis project – up to and including establishing a permanent moon base.

    America: A bunch of MIC oligarchs, zionists, immigro-capitalists, trough politicians and “representatives” of underrepresented minorities — all of them bald — fighting over a comb made of 100% federal reserve unicorn horn.

  28. @nebulafox
    One grim irony of more educationally qualified African immigrant kids receiving the benefits of AA policies is that they are likely the descendants of those that sold the ancestors of American blacks into slavery.

    I'm in Malaysia, home to a massive society wide AA program in favor of the native bumiputera majority vs. the high horsepower Chinese and Indian minorities. I could talk all day about the long term problems that this has caused and the similarities and differences with America, but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn't turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.

    Is there any place in the world where affirmative action was truly temporary, and has now been repealed? I think it was supposed to be temporary in South Africa too.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    In Pakistan they had affirmative action for people from Bangladesh and only for them (at that time Bangladesh was called East Pakistan and was a province of Pakistan). After Bangladesh became independent. They still had affirmative action, but since the Bangladeshis were not in Pakistan, they applied it to different groups.
    , @Chris Renner
    Thomas Sowell did a great book on the subject. It's been a while since I've read it but I'm almost positive that he couldn't find any examples of it ever going away.
  29. I was going to write a long, detailed, (self-styled) politically astute analysis of all this hokum, but then as usual I realized that the greatest social and political analyst of our times, Oscar Wilde, as usual summed up the whole thing rather pithily. He said it was,

    “The rage of Caliban at seeing his own face in a looking-glass.”

    (Note that without the glass, or prior to it, Caliban had as his models and expectations, Miranda and Prospero.)

    If you think about that one long enough, and take a sort of existential view of it, it’s a grand heuristic for all sorts of things: race, the JQ, immigration, the list goes on and on.

    Oscar Wilde is sort of like Homer Simpson’s opinion of donuts: is there anything he /can’t/ do?

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Did Homer ever wax poetic about donuts? I thought he referred to beer as the “cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”...
  30. @TelfoedJohn
    Is there any place in the world where affirmative action was truly temporary, and has now been repealed? I think it was supposed to be temporary in South Africa too.

    In Pakistan they had affirmative action for people from Bangladesh and only for them (at that time Bangladesh was called East Pakistan and was a province of Pakistan). After Bangladesh became independent. They still had affirmative action, but since the Bangladeshis were not in Pakistan, they applied it to different groups.

  31. @Mr McKenna
    When Herman Wouk died recently at the age of 103, NPR called him "The Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction."

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/17/468790231/herman-wouk-the-jackie-robinson-of-jewish-american-fiction-dies-at-103

    Well, within their story they peg that one on Jonathan Karp:

    "He really was the Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction," says Jonathan Karp, president and publisher of Simon & Schuster.

    I just think he must have had a really good health-care plan.

    ETA: Is our Reg the Angel of Death?! Doris Day and now this?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/career-advice-from-hakan-rotmwrt/#comment-3176738

    There weren’t that many celebrated Jewish-American novelists until after WWII, although there had been numerous Jewish playwrights, screenwriters, comic book writers, etc. before then.

  32. @Anonymous

    Affirmative action was set up 50 years ago in part as reparations for American slavery, but it has tended to evolve into a bizarre system of preferences for those least impacted by American slavery.
     
    I don't know if it evolved this way or if it was the original tacit intention.

    I don't think institutions like Harvard necessarily envisaged affirmative action, at least at their elite institutions, going to the blackest, most benighted and ignorant blacks from the inner city or wherever. Rather they probably always imagined it going to blacks who could lead and represent "the community", while at the same time not being so black that they couldn't navigate elite white circles. Naturally, this has meant promoting light skinned, foreign, and part white blacks.

    Harvard admitted a number of inner city youths in the 1970s, but unfortunate incidents tended to ensue, so it switched to preppier blacks.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    Not just Harvard; many if not most of the top schools tried this around 1969-74. It was pretty much a disaster everywhere it was tried.
  33. @BenKenobi
    “Womb-productive” — interesting trigger phrase you keep using over and over. You definitely fail the Voight-Kamff test.

    I wonder who you were previously — your appearance roughly coincides with Tyrion 2’s sudden disappearance. And that douche was responsible for perhaps 10% of posted comments in 2018.

    Or maybe Mishra? Who admitted to sock-puppeting.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    FWIW, I think Endgame Napoleon is much smarter than Tyrion ever was. Anyway who knows who’s who? Reminds me of who; whom. I say play the game, not the player.

  34. @Steve Sailer
    Harvard admitted a number of inner city youths in the 1970s, but unfortunate incidents tended to ensue, so it switched to preppier blacks.

    Not just Harvard; many if not most of the top schools tried this around 1969-74. It was pretty much a disaster everywhere it was tried.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Later on, after 1969-1974, elite colleges could just admit blacks who had been affirmative action admittees to elite prep schools and who had done okay there. It worked out better.
  35. @Canadian Observer
    Do you see these 5 sisters as a whole contributing even 1/100th of the intellectual value that someone like Jared Diamond has given the world? I don't either.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    Similarly to my remark just above: this would possibly be true if Harvard’s peers weren’t frantically doing the very same things.

    • Replies: @bomag

    ... if Harvard’s peers weren’t frantically doing the very same things.
     
    Indeed.

    But, "there's a lot of ruin in a nation." Fumes and inertia can go on a long time.

    Plus, Harvard et al just need a few rainmakers to cover for all the experiments.

    And, college as an institution of preparation is highly overrated.
  36. @HammerJack
    Not just Harvard; many if not most of the top schools tried this around 1969-74. It was pretty much a disaster everywhere it was tried.

    Later on, after 1969-1974, elite colleges could just admit blacks who had been affirmative action admittees to elite prep schools and who had done okay there. It worked out better.

    • Replies: @skedaddle
    We have one of those type running for mayor in my nearby big city and he's running to take over from the same type of mayor. Only difference is the younger guy went to more prestigious private schools. They are both dumber than a box of rocks and do exactly what the big business poobahs tell them to do.
    , @Ed
    Elite schools still put a premium on admitting poorer, ghetto blacks. That’s the demand the school in Louisiana that the NYT featured for doctoring transcripts and cheating was trying to satisfy.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/tm-landry-college-prep-black-students.html
  37. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    I was going to write a long, detailed, (self-styled) politically astute analysis of all this hokum, but then as usual I realized that the greatest social and political analyst of our times, Oscar Wilde, as usual summed up the whole thing rather pithily. He said it was,

    "The rage of Caliban at seeing his own face in a looking-glass."

    (Note that without the glass, or prior to it, Caliban had as his models and expectations, Miranda and Prospero.)

    If you think about that one long enough, and take a sort of existential view of it, it's a grand heuristic for all sorts of things: race, the JQ, immigration, the list goes on and on.

    Oscar Wilde is sort of like Homer Simpson's opinion of donuts: is there anything he /can't/ do?

    Did Homer ever wax poetic about donuts? I thought he referred to beer as the “cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”…

    • Replies: @Spect3r
    It's "alcohol" not just beer.
    "To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    See, this is the primeval problem with American politics right here. You quote Oscar Wilde, but people would rather ask about Homer Simpson. I give up.
  38. I would think it would be pretty easy to make the case that the government, through various programs, has transferred far more than the $2.6 trillion in wealth from non-blacks to black recipients that supposedly would level things out.

    No doubt progressives would squawk that this isn’t enough or that it wasn’t targeted correctly, but either way it undermines the argument that generous federal assistance is an engine for upward mobility. Make them defend their track record on the welfare state and that *this* time reparations are going to permanently remove millions from the social welfare system.

  39. @Canadian Observer
    Do you see these 5 sisters as a whole contributing even 1/100th of the intellectual value that someone like Jared Diamond has given the world? I don't either.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    Harvard has two graduates with a Nobel in Literature, but your (((Jared))) isn’t one of them. The “Harvard brand” was “given to the world” by the hundred Nobels, not by TV personalities.

  40. @Meretricious
    in reality affirmative action is society's way of conning blacks into thinking they are producers rather than takers--look at Barry Obama (a perfect example)--he goes to HLS to become a brilliant constitutional law professor and ends up being laughed at by U Chicago faculty as he teaches Rules 4 Radicals--bottom line, affirmative action? thy name is mendacity--a masquerade. when will some brave sci-fi director produce a film about what happens to blacks after all whites return to either Europe or Australia? LOL. Priceless. Title it, "Sheet, Where Did Mr Honkie Go?"

    I think we should go to Mars and leave the People of Color here to enjoy Earth. Recent experience has shown that, in going to Australia or Europe, we are not going far enough.

    If any Tribal Members, Catholic Family Services doofs, or Lutheran Social Services doofs manage to smuggle themselves to Mars and suggest that we might improve the vibrancy of our culture by importing some diversity, then we should eject those miscreants into deep space with just a single small tank of breathing air.

  41. @nebulafox
    One grim irony of more educationally qualified African immigrant kids receiving the benefits of AA policies is that they are likely the descendants of those that sold the ancestors of American blacks into slavery.

    I'm in Malaysia, home to a massive society wide AA program in favor of the native bumiputera majority vs. the high horsepower Chinese and Indian minorities. I could talk all day about the long term problems that this has caused and the similarities and differences with America, but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn't turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.

    When the bumiputera get their AA degree they all leave the country and head for the UK

  42. @Lot
    Trump: time for some taxpayer reparations!

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/05/23/trump_to_bill_sponsors_for_immigrants_welfare_benefits.html

    In Canada, sponsors are financially responsible for landed immigrants for up to 10 years. This enforcement of existing law shouldn’t be controversial at all, but in America everything is controversial.

    • Replies: @Flip

    In Canada, sponsors are financially responsible for landed immigrants for up to 10 years. This enforcement of existing law shouldn’t be controversial at all, but in America everything is controversial.

     

    Do they actually go after the sponsors?
  43. @Steve Sailer
    Later on, after 1969-1974, elite colleges could just admit blacks who had been affirmative action admittees to elite prep schools and who had done okay there. It worked out better.

    We have one of those type running for mayor in my nearby big city and he’s running to take over from the same type of mayor. Only difference is the younger guy went to more prestigious private schools. They are both dumber than a box of rocks and do exactly what the big business poobahs tell them to do.

  44. @Anonymous

    Affirmative action was set up 50 years ago in part as reparations for American slavery, but it has tended to evolve into a bizarre system of preferences for those least impacted by American slavery.
     
    I don't know if it evolved this way or if it was the original tacit intention.

    I don't think institutions like Harvard necessarily envisaged affirmative action, at least at their elite institutions, going to the blackest, most benighted and ignorant blacks from the inner city or wherever. Rather they probably always imagined it going to blacks who could lead and represent "the community", while at the same time not being so black that they couldn't navigate elite white circles. Naturally, this has meant promoting light skinned, foreign, and part white blacks.

    This is exactly what Harvard had in mind. Harvard has been admitting blacks since the 19th century. WEB DuBois received his PhD from there. They wanted the best of the “Negro Race”. Unfortunately the 60s happened and it’s been down hill from there.

  45. @Steve Sailer
    Later on, after 1969-1974, elite colleges could just admit blacks who had been affirmative action admittees to elite prep schools and who had done okay there. It worked out better.

    Elite schools still put a premium on admitting poorer, ghetto blacks. That’s the demand the school in Louisiana that the NYT featured for doctoring transcripts and cheating was trying to satisfy.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/tm-landry-college-prep-black-students.html

  46. @Colin
    Fredericton is the provincial capital of New Brunswick.

    According to Google maps it takes 6 hours 36 minutes to drive from there to Harvard University.

    According to Google maps it takes 7 hours to drive from Washington DC to Harvard University.

    Does that sound like a "long trek from New Brunswick, Canada" ?

    You forgot to include that racist border crossing where coloreds are subjected to burdensome extra special scrutiny coming and going.

  47. @TelfoedJohn
    Is there any place in the world where affirmative action was truly temporary, and has now been repealed? I think it was supposed to be temporary in South Africa too.

    Thomas Sowell did a great book on the subject. It’s been a while since I’ve read it but I’m almost positive that he couldn’t find any examples of it ever going away.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    There is a seamless transition from not ending Affirmative Action because the beneficiaries are too weak to not ending Affirmative Action because the beneficiaries are too strong.

    In a Diversitopia, Affirmative Action is a tool for maintaining a fragile peace - this is its true justification and therefore it is irrelevant whether or not any identified "achievement gaps" are bridged.
  48. American whites, particularly the working class, are sleepwalking to the same fate as Indian tribes but without casinos. Someday future Americans will brag about their 1/64 European ancestry. The Chinese, upper cast Hindus, mulattos and Jews will continue to tax us for pointless wars and handouts. It’ll all end with a whimper.

    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    they are not sleepwalking towards it, there are active forces suppressing the white working class from doing anything about it.
  49. “Education,” Irene Maxwell told her five daughters, “is the only thing that you can take all you want and there’s plenty left for everyone else. So make sure you take your share.”

    Harvard grad struggles with the concept of public goods.

  50. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @Canadian Observer
    Do you see these 5 sisters as a whole contributing even 1/100th of the intellectual value that someone like Jared Diamond has given the world? I don't either.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    The further down it goes, the better for America.

  51. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna
    When Herman Wouk died recently at the age of 103, NPR called him "The Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction."

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/17/468790231/herman-wouk-the-jackie-robinson-of-jewish-american-fiction-dies-at-103

    Well, within their story they peg that one on Jonathan Karp:

    "He really was the Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction," says Jonathan Karp, president and publisher of Simon & Schuster.

    I just think he must have had a really good health-care plan.

    ETA: Is our Reg the Angel of Death?! Doris Day and now this?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/career-advice-from-hakan-rotmwrt/#comment-3176738

    “He really was the Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction,” says Jonathan Karp, president and publisher of Simon & Schuster.

    What does this mean? That he was the first black to write Jewish American fiction?

  52. @nebulafox
    One grim irony of more educationally qualified African immigrant kids receiving the benefits of AA policies is that they are likely the descendants of those that sold the ancestors of American blacks into slavery.

    I'm in Malaysia, home to a massive society wide AA program in favor of the native bumiputera majority vs. the high horsepower Chinese and Indian minorities. I could talk all day about the long term problems that this has caused and the similarities and differences with America, but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn't turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.

    . . . but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn’t turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.

    In 2003’s Grutter v. Bollinger the majority opinion written by JUSTICE O’Connor set a 25 year prospective sunset for the Constitutionality of Affirmative Action.

    With a mere nine years left, you’d expect more discussions of the end of Affirmative Action.

    • Replies: @Bugg
    Cannot wait for that to get explained away in 2028. AA yesterday, AA today, AA forever!!!
  53. @Chris Renner
    Thomas Sowell did a great book on the subject. It's been a while since I've read it but I'm almost positive that he couldn't find any examples of it ever going away.

    There is a seamless transition from not ending Affirmative Action because the beneficiaries are too weak to not ending Affirmative Action because the beneficiaries are too strong.

    In a Diversitopia, Affirmative Action is a tool for maintaining a fragile peace – this is its true justification and therefore it is irrelevant whether or not any identified “achievement gaps” are bridged.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Blacks have not at any time in the post-Bellum era been more than 13% of the population, and just shy of 1/10th of them today are West Indian or African and somewhat detached from the country's racial neuroses. The fandango persists not because blacks want it, but because people like Sandra Day O'Connor want it. The question is why they want it. Promoting human capital malinvestment in the black population isn't doing the supposed beneficiaries any good.
  54. a huge fraction of Harvard’s affirmative action for blacks goes to individuals who aren’t descended from American slaves, are instead descended from foreign elites and/or white parents or grandparents.

    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.

    I don’t find it that hard to understand how Igbos or Ashanti could come here post-1965 and do well, but Caribbean blacks have their own history of slavery and still manage to do better than the median white in income and educational attainment.

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn’t have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren’t enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn’t have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren’t enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.
     
    Depending on the island,#1 was false. In Jamaica, for example, it was common for blacks to escape up into the mountains where they set up their own rural societies (and the white people didn't dare to venture). So there was more of a history of blacks being self sufficient farmers. And slavery ended earlier and was not replace with a Jim Crow/sharecropper system that was only marginally better than slavery but rather with a sort of peasant agriculture not unlike what you would find in the less developed parts of Europe.

    I would credit British education as being very helpful, as well as Christianity. Even poor rural blacks received a decent British primary education in orderly schools and the community norms were Christian - you were expected to behave in a Christian way and marry and not live in sin. The fact that almost everyone was black or mixed race meant that "racism" was not an all purpose excuse. If you weren't doing well it was your own fault and not because whitey was keeping you down.

    This applied to the countryside. The urban centers of Jamaica (Kingston) are as dysfunctional as urban black cities anywhere.

    I would say that it's not so much that Caribbean blacks are all that good (if you look at things like crime rates they are not great) but that American blacks are especially bad. The black culture of the American Deep South was violent and ignorant and dysfunctional and then when that was transported to the urban North it got even worse.

    , @Anonymous

    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.
     
    Wasn't the Caribbean the first stop for many slave ships?
  55. @Alec Leamas
    There is a seamless transition from not ending Affirmative Action because the beneficiaries are too weak to not ending Affirmative Action because the beneficiaries are too strong.

    In a Diversitopia, Affirmative Action is a tool for maintaining a fragile peace - this is its true justification and therefore it is irrelevant whether or not any identified "achievement gaps" are bridged.

    Blacks have not at any time in the post-Bellum era been more than 13% of the population, and just shy of 1/10th of them today are West Indian or African and somewhat detached from the country’s racial neuroses. The fandango persists not because blacks want it, but because people like Sandra Day O’Connor want it. The question is why they want it. Promoting human capital malinvestment in the black population isn’t doing the supposed beneficiaries any good.

  56. @Colin
    Fredericton is the provincial capital of New Brunswick.

    According to Google maps it takes 6 hours 36 minutes to drive from there to Harvard University.

    According to Google maps it takes 7 hours to drive from Washington DC to Harvard University.

    Does that sound like a "long trek from New Brunswick, Canada" ?

    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 – the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn’t mesh well with the Brits – didn’t speak the language, didn’t identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for “journey of colonial conquest by racists” and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it’s true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family – otherwise, even on a doctor’s salary, it’s hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls – you are talking upwards of $1 million US.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    Their father (with the doctor's salary) died, when the third eldest daughter was halfway through college. Maybe he had a good live insurance, so they paid tuition with that money, but I doubt it.
    , @AnotherDad

    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary.
     

    This is the great tragedy of the Boers. Terrific hard working people, but they ... heeded the siren song of cheap labor.

    Cheap labor, ultimately brings multiculturalism, "diversity" and is the destroyer of nations. (They should have done what the American's did pushing West--push the natives out. Of course, we imported our diversity, much to our own detriment.)

    Allow "diversity" and you're loading a bullet into a revolver, spinning the cylinder, pointing it at your head and firing. You might get lucky for a while--even a really long while--but eventually, you're dead.

    One people--one nation. No workarounds.

    , @AnotherDad

    Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.
     
    Jack this is a high quality post end-to-end.

    But you--because you don't agree--have actually missed that the Boer are dying now because they weren't "alt-right" and "separationist" ... enough.

    If the Afrikaners had been willing to really bite the bullet in say 1990 and partition South Africa, they would have an actual nation (in the Western Cape) and a future. But many of them didn't want to give up the land, they'd conquered in the Great Trek. Didn't want to give up their comfy homes and lucrative business to start again.

    The lesson from ancient Boer history is:
    "Don't heed the siren call of cheap labor! It brings multiculturalism, "diversity", disaster."

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    "Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people."

    , @J.Ross
    Boers "didn't mesh well with the Brits" because the British were programmatically destroying them.
    , @Logan
    The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 – the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    Hadn't heard that. Do you have a reference?

    The government allocated 20M pounds, about 40% of the annual budget or about 5% of Britain's GDP. That's a remarkable amount of money, for then or any other time.

    For instance, an equivalent sum in America today would be $1600B. Interestingly, roughly the low end of what has been proposed as appropriate reparations for slavery and Jim Crow.

    The best I've been able to find about the number of slaves freed was 800,000, but that may be low. The 20M would work out to about 25 pounds each, but the amounts paid were apparently often much lower, including the largest single owner, an earl, who got about 10 pounds each.
  57. Soledad O’brien and her five siblings all attended Harvard. O’brien’s father is a white Australian and her mother is Afro-Cuban.

    Mathematician Jonathan Farley and his three brothers all attended Harvard. Farley’s father is from Guyana and his mother is from Jamaica.

    The Crouch Quadruplets attended Yale. Their father is white and their mother Nigerian.

    Lani Guinier has a white Jewish mother and a Panamanian-born father who grew up both in Jamaica and the US. It is surprising that she would speak up against what benefitted her. Guinier married a US native black man and their son Nikolas Bowie is an assistant professor of law at Harvard Law School. He graduated from Yale and has both a law degree and PhD in history from Harvard.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    There is a small, mixed race and Caribbean (often both) talented tenth group in America which has gotten most of the benefits from AA at the elite level despite having little or no American slave ancestry. They are the ones in a position to best capitalize on AA because of their higher average IQ. No matter how much AA you offer, a sub 100 IQ slave descendant is not going to get thru a place like Harvard and vast majority of American blacks are below 100 IQ.

    https://thealternativehypothesis.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/iq5-580x381.jpg

  58. @Triumph104
    Soledad O'brien and her five siblings all attended Harvard. O'brien's father is a white Australian and her mother is Afro-Cuban.

    Mathematician Jonathan Farley and his three brothers all attended Harvard. Farley's father is from Guyana and his mother is from Jamaica.

    The Crouch Quadruplets attended Yale. Their father is white and their mother Nigerian.

    Lani Guinier has a white Jewish mother and a Panamanian-born father who grew up both in Jamaica and the US. It is surprising that she would speak up against what benefitted her. Guinier married a US native black man and their son Nikolas Bowie is an assistant professor of law at Harvard Law School. He graduated from Yale and has both a law degree and PhD in history from Harvard.

    There is a small, mixed race and Caribbean (often both) talented tenth group in America which has gotten most of the benefits from AA at the elite level despite having little or no American slave ancestry. They are the ones in a position to best capitalize on AA because of their higher average IQ. No matter how much AA you offer, a sub 100 IQ slave descendant is not going to get thru a place like Harvard and vast majority of American blacks are below 100 IQ.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Harvard admits a freshman class of about 2,000 (many of them imported from abroad) out of birth cohorts numbering 4,200,000. And what Norman Kantor had to say 20 years ago applies: "For all their elaborate procedures [in hiring and tenure review], their history department is no better than 10 others". Who they do and do not admit is not all that significant in the scheme of things.
  59. @Chris Renner

    a huge fraction of Harvard’s affirmative action for blacks goes to individuals who aren’t descended from American slaves, are instead descended from foreign elites and/or white parents or grandparents.
     
    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.

    I don't find it that hard to understand how Igbos or Ashanti could come here post-1965 and do well, but Caribbean blacks have their own history of slavery and still manage to do better than the median white in income and educational attainment.

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn't have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren't enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn’t have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren’t enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.

    Depending on the island,#1 was false. In Jamaica, for example, it was common for blacks to escape up into the mountains where they set up their own rural societies (and the white people didn’t dare to venture). So there was more of a history of blacks being self sufficient farmers. And slavery ended earlier and was not replace with a Jim Crow/sharecropper system that was only marginally better than slavery but rather with a sort of peasant agriculture not unlike what you would find in the less developed parts of Europe.

    I would credit British education as being very helpful, as well as Christianity. Even poor rural blacks received a decent British primary education in orderly schools and the community norms were Christian – you were expected to behave in a Christian way and marry and not live in sin. The fact that almost everyone was black or mixed race meant that “racism” was not an all purpose excuse. If you weren’t doing well it was your own fault and not because whitey was keeping you down.

    This applied to the countryside. The urban centers of Jamaica (Kingston) are as dysfunctional as urban black cities anywhere.

    I would say that it’s not so much that Caribbean blacks are all that good (if you look at things like crime rates they are not great) but that American blacks are especially bad. The black culture of the American Deep South was violent and ignorant and dysfunctional and then when that was transported to the urban North it got even worse.

    • Replies: @Chris Renner
    Yeah, Jamaica's the most obvious challenge.

    For what it's worth, Jamaicans are typically on the low end of West Indian ancestries in terms of median household income, but still substantially above African-Americans as a whole.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    I think that the problem with crime in the Caribbean is the relatively easy travel between Caribbean islands, drawing young men from the more dysfunctional islands to the better functioning (former British colonies) islands for work and as young men are want they cause a lot of trouble.

    I was in St. Thomas USVI a few years ago for the Boy Scout Tournament in Red Hook, and the way it works there is that they drive on the left and you get these private cab services. We hooked up with a husband and wife couple who were both refugees from the volcano eruption in Montserrat.

    One morning the wife was the driver and I was in the passenger seat. We came to a four way intersection where there was a car crash and a few dozen young men arguing on the verge of brawling. The wife looks over at me as says "N*ggas always F*ck everything up" while shaking her head.

    It turns out that they were Haitian laborers, and the reputation of Haitians in the USVI is that of troublemakers and criminally inclined.
  60. @The Alarmist
    Hey, the fact that I had Dutch and English slave-traders in the family tree didn’t stop me from ticking the African American box on my grad school application. My hair is kinky enough to make a case. Now, how can I gets me some of that good reparations money?

    Sounds like you already got some.

  61. @Danindc
    Did Homer ever wax poetic about donuts? I thought he referred to beer as the “cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”...

    It’s “alcohol” not just beer.
    “To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.”

  62. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chris Renner

    a huge fraction of Harvard’s affirmative action for blacks goes to individuals who aren’t descended from American slaves, are instead descended from foreign elites and/or white parents or grandparents.
     
    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.

    I don't find it that hard to understand how Igbos or Ashanti could come here post-1965 and do well, but Caribbean blacks have their own history of slavery and still manage to do better than the median white in income and educational attainment.

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn't have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren't enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.

    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.

    Wasn’t the Caribbean the first stop for many slave ships?

    • Replies: @Chris Renner
    That's the way I remember my middle-school social studies texts explaining it, but I have no idea whether they were accurate.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    A258, you are correct, the ships would tie up and the future slaves would enjoy a week at one of the many All-Inclusive Resorts that dot the Caribbean before reboarding and heading to the cotton field of the Old South.
  63. @Danindc
    Did Homer ever wax poetic about donuts? I thought he referred to beer as the “cause of and solution to all of life’s problems”...

    See, this is the primeval problem with American politics right here. You quote Oscar Wilde, but people would rather ask about Homer Simpson. I give up.

  64. @Anonymous
    Did African slaves have better lives in the United States than they would have in Africa?

    They had better lives than most “free” whites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    They had better lives than most “free” whites.
     
    What evidence is there for your proposition?
    , @OilcanFloyd
    Most people will laugh at that statement, but there is truth to it. I've read memoirs of some planters, and among those that I have read, some had genuine paternal feelings for blacks, while voicing nothing but disgust for free whites farmers and settlers. The class lines among whites in the South were often stark.

    There is also visual evidence of the difference in lifestyles between poor whites and slaves. Both groups worked hard, but there was no welfare for whites, and slaves, being expensive investments, were at least given the basics for survival. I've seen slave quarters and homes of white small farmers, and the slave quarters I saw were the better of the two. The typical settler home was a rough structure, not much better than a frontier cabin, while the slaves lived in single-family tabby structures made with milled wood. Poor whites probably had a similar standard of living throughout the South. Slave lives likely varied by plantation.
  65. @Jack D
    There is a small, mixed race and Caribbean (often both) talented tenth group in America which has gotten most of the benefits from AA at the elite level despite having little or no American slave ancestry. They are the ones in a position to best capitalize on AA because of their higher average IQ. No matter how much AA you offer, a sub 100 IQ slave descendant is not going to get thru a place like Harvard and vast majority of American blacks are below 100 IQ.

    https://thealternativehypothesis.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/iq5-580x381.jpg

    Harvard admits a freshman class of about 2,000 (many of them imported from abroad) out of birth cohorts numbering 4,200,000. And what Norman Kantor had to say 20 years ago applies: “For all their elaborate procedures [in hiring and tenure review], their history department is no better than 10 others”. Who they do and do not admit is not all that significant in the scheme of things.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Harvard just by itself is not important (although along with Yale it has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well) but Harvard is a microcosm of the top 10 or 50 elite institutions which almost all operate in a similar fashion concerning AA. Together, these institutions have a VERY significant influence on politics and the economy.

    Maybe the Harvard history department is no better than 10 others, but you can't say that those 11 taken together are no better than the average history dept. Yes the commanding heights are shared by a group but there really is such a thing as an elite.
  66. @Canadian Observer
    Do you see these 5 sisters as a whole contributing even 1/100th of the intellectual value that someone like Jared Diamond has given the world? I don't either.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    “The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.”

    It already has. As has the rest of the Ivy League.

  67. @Jack D
    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 - the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn't mesh well with the Brits - didn't speak the language, didn't identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for "journey of colonial conquest by racists" and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it's true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family - otherwise, even on a doctor's salary, it's hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls - you are talking upwards of $1 million US.

    Their father (with the doctor’s salary) died, when the third eldest daughter was halfway through college. Maybe he had a good live insurance, so they paid tuition with that money, but I doubt it.

  68. @Mr McKenna
    When Herman Wouk died recently at the age of 103, NPR called him "The Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction."

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/17/468790231/herman-wouk-the-jackie-robinson-of-jewish-american-fiction-dies-at-103

    Well, within their story they peg that one on Jonathan Karp:

    "He really was the Jackie Robinson of Jewish American fiction," says Jonathan Karp, president and publisher of Simon & Schuster.

    I just think he must have had a really good health-care plan.

    ETA: Is our Reg the Angel of Death?! Doris Day and now this?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/career-advice-from-hakan-rotmwrt/#comment-3176738

    I’ve read several of his books, and I didn’t realize he was Jewish until he died. Maybe it was on the covers of the books or something, but I just thought about how I was reading great stories, not Jackie Robinson.

  69. @Art Deco
    Harvard admits a freshman class of about 2,000 (many of them imported from abroad) out of birth cohorts numbering 4,200,000. And what Norman Kantor had to say 20 years ago applies: "For all their elaborate procedures [in hiring and tenure review], their history department is no better than 10 others". Who they do and do not admit is not all that significant in the scheme of things.

    Harvard just by itself is not important (although along with Yale it has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well) but Harvard is a microcosm of the top 10 or 50 elite institutions which almost all operate in a similar fashion concerning AA. Together, these institutions have a VERY significant influence on politics and the economy.

    Maybe the Harvard history department is no better than 10 others, but you can’t say that those 11 taken together are no better than the average history dept. Yes the commanding heights are shared by a group but there really is such a thing as an elite.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Harvard just by itself is not important (although along with Yale it has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well) but Harvard is a microcosm of the top 10 or 50 elite institutions which almost all operate in a similar fashion concerning AA. Together, these institutions have a VERY significant influence on politics and the economy.

    It's a problem in re the Supreme Court, one the politicians can readily repair. A Harvard or Yale connection has been abnormally common among consequential presidential candidates (something that doesn't apply in regard to the rest of the Ivy League, much less the whole body of private research universities or the body of swank private colleges). In regard to presidential candidates, the connection is typically professional school. In regard to undergraduate degrees, about 1 in 6 such candidates in recent decades have been a graduate of one or the other: three Kennedys, two Bushes, and a half-dozen others. Aside from the Bushes, there hasn't been anyone on the Republican side in > 50 years.
    , @Eagle Eye

    Harvard ... along with Yale has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well
     
    Left and Right should be reminded that judges are supposed to JUDGE and resolve actual disputes, not act as unelected priest-kings, e.g. to introduce abortion to control the growth of "populations that we don't want to have too many of." (Ruth Bader-Ginsburg)

    The president and the senate should ONLY appoint judges from state schools or affordable local law schools. This will naturally encourage smart youngsters to go to their state schools, and in time help raise the profile and prestige of those schools while retaining a connection to the state.

    Also, the illegal monopoly enforced by the "American Bar Association" over law schools and bar admission nationwide must be smashed NOW. We have had anti-trust laws for over 100 years. Time to USE them. The powerful trusts are sucking out what little is left of a spirit of liberty in America.

  70. the Maxwell’s 18-year association with Harvard

    Does the Harvard News Office have any association with Harvard, particularly with the English department? Or do they hire right out of Roxbury High?

    The middle girl, by the way, I at first took to be Michelle Malkin.

  71. @anon
    Reparations are never justified. Groups are not individuals. When will people learn this elementary lesson?
    If you rob me, you must pay.
    If your grandfather robbed my grandfather forty years ago, you owe me nothing.
    It doesn't matter if you inherited the stolen money from your grandfather.
    It doesn't matter if my father had to start from scratch after grandad was robbed.
    Life goes on, people start from where they start, and achieve what they can.
    What counts is the rule of law today to ensure no robbery today.
    Reparations are old quarrels prolonged, like the Hatfields and McCoys still killing each other twenty years after the feud started over a stolen pig.
    And besides, as ISteve bloggers know, today's failures by blacks are not caused by yesteryear's slavery. It's the genes, the genes, the genes.

    Yep, making the sons pay for the sins of the fathers is Old Testament stuff. Are we really gonna keep going there, for guidance on how to govern?

  72. @Jack D
    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 - the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn't mesh well with the Brits - didn't speak the language, didn't identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for "journey of colonial conquest by racists" and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it's true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family - otherwise, even on a doctor's salary, it's hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls - you are talking upwards of $1 million US.

    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary.

    This is the great tragedy of the Boers. Terrific hard working people, but they … heeded the siren song of cheap labor.

    Cheap labor, ultimately brings multiculturalism, “diversity” and is the destroyer of nations. (They should have done what the American’s did pushing West–push the natives out. Of course, we imported our diversity, much to our own detriment.)

    Allow “diversity” and you’re loading a bullet into a revolver, spinning the cylinder, pointing it at your head and firing. You might get lucky for a while–even a really long while–but eventually, you’re dead.

    One people–one nation. No workarounds.

  73. @Jack D
    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 - the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn't mesh well with the Brits - didn't speak the language, didn't identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for "journey of colonial conquest by racists" and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it's true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family - otherwise, even on a doctor's salary, it's hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls - you are talking upwards of $1 million US.

    Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    Jack this is a high quality post end-to-end.

    But you–because you don’t agree–have actually missed that the Boer are dying now because they weren’t “alt-right” and “separationist” … enough.

    If the Afrikaners had been willing to really bite the bullet in say 1990 and partition South Africa, they would have an actual nation (in the Western Cape) and a future. But many of them didn’t want to give up the land, they’d conquered in the Great Trek. Didn’t want to give up their comfy homes and lucrative business to start again.

    The lesson from ancient Boer history is:
    “Don’t heed the siren call of cheap labor! It brings multiculturalism, “diversity”, disaster.”

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    “Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    “Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people.”
     
    Actually, someone commented on another post here that the Boers have something like 6 percent sub-Saharan ancestry. So they are more of a mixed people
    , @J.Ross
    Insofar as modern South African whites aren't worried about getting literally crucified or seeing a neighbor demonstrate his athletic abilities by hopping their fence, they're falling back on isolation, which the government-supplied farm murders prove to be a losing case. There's no way to avoid fighting because our enemies aren't reasonable people.
  74. @Jack D

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn’t have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren’t enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.
     
    Depending on the island,#1 was false. In Jamaica, for example, it was common for blacks to escape up into the mountains where they set up their own rural societies (and the white people didn't dare to venture). So there was more of a history of blacks being self sufficient farmers. And slavery ended earlier and was not replace with a Jim Crow/sharecropper system that was only marginally better than slavery but rather with a sort of peasant agriculture not unlike what you would find in the less developed parts of Europe.

    I would credit British education as being very helpful, as well as Christianity. Even poor rural blacks received a decent British primary education in orderly schools and the community norms were Christian - you were expected to behave in a Christian way and marry and not live in sin. The fact that almost everyone was black or mixed race meant that "racism" was not an all purpose excuse. If you weren't doing well it was your own fault and not because whitey was keeping you down.

    This applied to the countryside. The urban centers of Jamaica (Kingston) are as dysfunctional as urban black cities anywhere.

    I would say that it's not so much that Caribbean blacks are all that good (if you look at things like crime rates they are not great) but that American blacks are especially bad. The black culture of the American Deep South was violent and ignorant and dysfunctional and then when that was transported to the urban North it got even worse.

    Yeah, Jamaica’s the most obvious challenge.

    For what it’s worth, Jamaicans are typically on the low end of West Indian ancestries in terms of median household income, but still substantially above African-Americans as a whole.

  75. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @L Woods
    They had better lives than most “free” whites.

    They had better lives than most “free” whites.

    What evidence is there for your proposition?

  76. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.
     
    Jack this is a high quality post end-to-end.

    But you--because you don't agree--have actually missed that the Boer are dying now because they weren't "alt-right" and "separationist" ... enough.

    If the Afrikaners had been willing to really bite the bullet in say 1990 and partition South Africa, they would have an actual nation (in the Western Cape) and a future. But many of them didn't want to give up the land, they'd conquered in the Great Trek. Didn't want to give up their comfy homes and lucrative business to start again.

    The lesson from ancient Boer history is:
    "Don't heed the siren call of cheap labor! It brings multiculturalism, "diversity", disaster."

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    "Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people."

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    “Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people.”

    Actually, someone commented on another post here that the Boers have something like 6 percent sub-Saharan ancestry. So they are more of a mixed people

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Only by Elizabeth Warren standards. I think 6% is the total non-European admixture, it's not all black. The admixture occurred in a very early period before there were adequate supplies of white women available to the Dutch settlers and the wives were more often from other Dutch East India colonies (India, Malaysia) than from Africa. Someone who is 6% non-European from an ancient admixture rarely if ever has visible non-European features. A recent mix may not be fully homogenized and occasionally you get a throwback who takes after great-grandma even though he is 15/16 white but after many generations people tend to look true to their genetic mix. If you look at Afrikaners they look like ordinary white people.


    There are distinct groups of mixed race "coloureds" in S. Africa who are visibly and culturally non-white but these are quite distinct from the Afrikaners.
  77. @L Woods
    They had better lives than most “free” whites.

    Most people will laugh at that statement, but there is truth to it. I’ve read memoirs of some planters, and among those that I have read, some had genuine paternal feelings for blacks, while voicing nothing but disgust for free whites farmers and settlers. The class lines among whites in the South were often stark.

    There is also visual evidence of the difference in lifestyles between poor whites and slaves. Both groups worked hard, but there was no welfare for whites, and slaves, being expensive investments, were at least given the basics for survival. I’ve seen slave quarters and homes of white small farmers, and the slave quarters I saw were the better of the two. The typical settler home was a rough structure, not much better than a frontier cabin, while the slaves lived in single-family tabby structures made with milled wood. Poor whites probably had a similar standard of living throughout the South. Slave lives likely varied by plantation.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Oilcan, there were many slaves that lived in the barns and shacks of their dirt poor owners. Not every slave owner lived in a "Tara" plantation mansion. A very good read is "Bullwhip Days, The Slaves Remember, An Oral History" edited by James Mellon or "The Peculiar Institution, Slavery in the Ante Bellum South." by Kenneth M. Stampp. Either book will give you a better understanding of slave conditions from owner to owner.
  78. @Anonymous

    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.
     
    Wasn't the Caribbean the first stop for many slave ships?

    That’s the way I remember my middle-school social studies texts explaining it, but I have no idea whether they were accurate.

  79. @Jack D
    Harvard just by itself is not important (although along with Yale it has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well) but Harvard is a microcosm of the top 10 or 50 elite institutions which almost all operate in a similar fashion concerning AA. Together, these institutions have a VERY significant influence on politics and the economy.

    Maybe the Harvard history department is no better than 10 others, but you can't say that those 11 taken together are no better than the average history dept. Yes the commanding heights are shared by a group but there really is such a thing as an elite.

    Harvard just by itself is not important (although along with Yale it has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well) but Harvard is a microcosm of the top 10 or 50 elite institutions which almost all operate in a similar fashion concerning AA. Together, these institutions have a VERY significant influence on politics and the economy.

    It’s a problem in re the Supreme Court, one the politicians can readily repair. A Harvard or Yale connection has been abnormally common among consequential presidential candidates (something that doesn’t apply in regard to the rest of the Ivy League, much less the whole body of private research universities or the body of swank private colleges). In regard to presidential candidates, the connection is typically professional school. In regard to undergraduate degrees, about 1 in 6 such candidates in recent decades have been a graduate of one or the other: three Kennedys, two Bushes, and a half-dozen others. Aside from the Bushes, there hasn’t been anyone on the Republican side in > 50 years.

  80. @Jack D

    My working explanation is that their ancestors 1) didn’t have feasible means of escape and 2) lived in an environment where there weren’t enough white laborers to make a racial caste system feasible, which would have given them incentive and opportunity to do more than the bare minimum of work.
     
    Depending on the island,#1 was false. In Jamaica, for example, it was common for blacks to escape up into the mountains where they set up their own rural societies (and the white people didn't dare to venture). So there was more of a history of blacks being self sufficient farmers. And slavery ended earlier and was not replace with a Jim Crow/sharecropper system that was only marginally better than slavery but rather with a sort of peasant agriculture not unlike what you would find in the less developed parts of Europe.

    I would credit British education as being very helpful, as well as Christianity. Even poor rural blacks received a decent British primary education in orderly schools and the community norms were Christian - you were expected to behave in a Christian way and marry and not live in sin. The fact that almost everyone was black or mixed race meant that "racism" was not an all purpose excuse. If you weren't doing well it was your own fault and not because whitey was keeping you down.

    This applied to the countryside. The urban centers of Jamaica (Kingston) are as dysfunctional as urban black cities anywhere.

    I would say that it's not so much that Caribbean blacks are all that good (if you look at things like crime rates they are not great) but that American blacks are especially bad. The black culture of the American Deep South was violent and ignorant and dysfunctional and then when that was transported to the urban North it got even worse.

    I think that the problem with crime in the Caribbean is the relatively easy travel between Caribbean islands, drawing young men from the more dysfunctional islands to the better functioning (former British colonies) islands for work and as young men are want they cause a lot of trouble.

    I was in St. Thomas USVI a few years ago for the Boy Scout Tournament in Red Hook, and the way it works there is that they drive on the left and you get these private cab services. We hooked up with a husband and wife couple who were both refugees from the volcano eruption in Montserrat.

    One morning the wife was the driver and I was in the passenger seat. We came to a four way intersection where there was a car crash and a few dozen young men arguing on the verge of brawling. The wife looks over at me as says “N*ggas always F*ck everything up” while shaking her head.

    It turns out that they were Haitian laborers, and the reputation of Haitians in the USVI is that of troublemakers and criminally inclined.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Not sure how moving criminal tendencies around increases overall crime rates, unless you're suggesting that free of family supervision, young men are making the world worse.

    Homicide rates in the Caribbean are all over the map and have in recent years varied by a factor of 25, with the central tendency around about 18 per 100,000. The worst places include some of the most affluent territories (USVI) and some of the poorest (Jamaica). Generally, the French and the Dutch territories are quieter than the Anglophone territories.
  81. @HammerJack

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.
     
    Similarly to my remark just above: this would possibly be true if Harvard's peers weren't frantically doing the very same things.

    … if Harvard’s peers weren’t frantically doing the very same things.

    Indeed.

    But, “there’s a lot of ruin in a nation.” Fumes and inertia can go on a long time.

    Plus, Harvard et al just need a few rainmakers to cover for all the experiments.

    And, college as an institution of preparation is highly overrated.

  82. @Jack D
    Harvard just by itself is not important (although along with Yale it has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well) but Harvard is a microcosm of the top 10 or 50 elite institutions which almost all operate in a similar fashion concerning AA. Together, these institutions have a VERY significant influence on politics and the economy.

    Maybe the Harvard history department is no better than 10 others, but you can't say that those 11 taken together are no better than the average history dept. Yes the commanding heights are shared by a group but there really is such a thing as an elite.

    Harvard … along with Yale has become a virtual pre-requisite for joining the Supreme Court and is very important in reaching the White House as well

    Left and Right should be reminded that judges are supposed to JUDGE and resolve actual disputes, not act as unelected priest-kings, e.g. to introduce abortion to control the growth of “populations that we don’t want to have too many of.” (Ruth Bader-Ginsburg)

    The president and the senate should ONLY appoint judges from state schools or affordable local law schools. This will naturally encourage smart youngsters to go to their state schools, and in time help raise the profile and prestige of those schools while retaining a connection to the state.

    Also, the illegal monopoly enforced by the “American Bar Association” over law schools and bar admission nationwide must be smashed NOW. We have had anti-trust laws for over 100 years. Time to USE them. The powerful trusts are sucking out what little is left of a spirit of liberty in America.

  83. Harvard’s completely corrupt “holistic admission” system gave us 3 of the worst presidents of all time: Bush, Obama and now President Kushner, all beneficiaries of AA, legacy and “development”, i.e. scions of the rich/powerful. Each is worse than the last.

    It’s no wonder America is going down the tube. All thanks to Harvard.

    It’s time for Harvard and the rest of the Traitorous Eight to become 100% black, let’s get this over with.

  84. @Canadian Observer
    Do you see these 5 sisters as a whole contributing even 1/100th of the intellectual value that someone like Jared Diamond has given the world? I don't either.

    The Harvard brand will go down, down, down and just be known as a camp for SJW mediocrities like some random state school in a blue state somewhere.

    the harvard, ivy league brand is longtime crap
    ’cause of dershowitz, summers, kissinger, bernanke,
    paulson, ilk.

    famous for doing great harm not good.

    other ivy grads barely mediocre, eg, natalie hershshlag

    elsewhere,

    Indianapolis 500 will be AI drivers only.

    If successful, NASCAR will do same.

    saves on prize money and blondes having to kiss sweat and fumes.

  85. We southerners demand reparations for losses incurred as a result of the illegal, unconstitutional invasion of our lands by the US government.

    The US government owes us billions.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Demand all you want - good luck getting it.

    In reality, the South was favored by the Federal gov. in the post WWII era - most of NASA's money went into the South - Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc. The nuclear program too and a lot of military installations.
  86. @Another Canadian
    In Canada, sponsors are financially responsible for landed immigrants for up to 10 years. This enforcement of existing law shouldn't be controversial at all, but in America everything is controversial.

    In Canada, sponsors are financially responsible for landed immigrants for up to 10 years. This enforcement of existing law shouldn’t be controversial at all, but in America everything is controversial.

    Do they actually go after the sponsors?

  87. @Anonymous

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    “Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people.”
     
    Actually, someone commented on another post here that the Boers have something like 6 percent sub-Saharan ancestry. So they are more of a mixed people

    Only by Elizabeth Warren standards. I think 6% is the total non-European admixture, it’s not all black. The admixture occurred in a very early period before there were adequate supplies of white women available to the Dutch settlers and the wives were more often from other Dutch East India colonies (India, Malaysia) than from Africa. Someone who is 6% non-European from an ancient admixture rarely if ever has visible non-European features. A recent mix may not be fully homogenized and occasionally you get a throwback who takes after great-grandma even though he is 15/16 white but after many generations people tend to look true to their genetic mix. If you look at Afrikaners they look like ordinary white people.

    There are distinct groups of mixed race “coloureds” in S. Africa who are visibly and culturally non-white but these are quite distinct from the Afrikaners.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Visibly distinct.

    Their home language is Afrikaans, and I think they generally belong to Calvinist denominations. There was a team from the American Universities Field Staff who produced a country study in South Africa in 1963; one of their conclusions was that the Cape Coloured and the Cape Afrikaner were the only major communal groups who seemed to have any mutual sympathy. One of the curios at the end of the apartheid era was that the Cape Coloured formed most of the electoral constituency of the National Party for a while. Coloured voters have put the opposition over the top in the Western Cape, making it the one part of the country the machine cannot crack.
  88. @Pat Hines
    We southerners demand reparations for losses incurred as a result of the illegal, unconstitutional invasion of our lands by the US government.

    The US government owes us billions.

    Demand all you want – good luck getting it.

    In reality, the South was favored by the Federal gov. in the post WWII era – most of NASA’s money went into the South – Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc. The nuclear program too and a lot of military installations.

  89. @Jack D
    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 - the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn't mesh well with the Brits - didn't speak the language, didn't identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for "journey of colonial conquest by racists" and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it's true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family - otherwise, even on a doctor's salary, it's hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls - you are talking upwards of $1 million US.

    Boers “didn’t mesh well with the Brits” because the British were programmatically destroying them.

  90. J.Ross says: • Website
    @AnotherDad

    Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.
     
    Jack this is a high quality post end-to-end.

    But you--because you don't agree--have actually missed that the Boer are dying now because they weren't "alt-right" and "separationist" ... enough.

    If the Afrikaners had been willing to really bite the bullet in say 1990 and partition South Africa, they would have an actual nation (in the Western Cape) and a future. But many of them didn't want to give up the land, they'd conquered in the Great Trek. Didn't want to give up their comfy homes and lucrative business to start again.

    The lesson from ancient Boer history is:
    "Don't heed the siren call of cheap labor! It brings multiculturalism, "diversity", disaster."

    The lesson from modern Boer history is:
    "Bite the bullet. Separate while you can, no matter how painful. Diversity will ultimately destroy your nation, and your survival as a people."

    Insofar as modern South African whites aren’t worried about getting literally crucified or seeing a neighbor demonstrate his athletic abilities by hopping their fence, they’re falling back on isolation, which the government-supplied farm murders prove to be a losing case. There’s no way to avoid fighting because our enemies aren’t reasonable people.

  91. J.Ross says: • Website

    I don’t see Amy Wax mentioned, forgive this if you’ve already heard it, but she has a book raising the point that legal disputes are not a straightforward blame game. Concerning an injured party who must be made whole and unambiguous guilt on the part of say somebody who should have de-iced a sidewalk, the overwhelming majority of work to make whole the victim falls to — the victim!
    It is the victim who must attend and obey physical therapy. It is the victim who must take drugs and modify his diet. It is the victim who must suffer through pain and inconvenience. The guilty person might pay a fee but his responsibility, and in fact his ability to help, ends there. A depressed victim who stops going to the clinic and lets his leg mis-heal becomes his own abuser.
    The case for monetary reparations is invalid for several reasons but most notably because they wouldn’t be reparations.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    When will White people demand reparations for the violence inflicted on them by Blacks?
  92. @Alec Leamas

    . . . but one interesting thing to note is that in the 1970s in both countries, the policies were meant as a temporary measure. But of course, it didn’t turn out there way. AA policies are a great example of bureaucracies creating their own logic and permanent realities if left unchecked.
     
    In 2003's Grutter v. Bollinger the majority opinion written by JUSTICE O'Connor set a 25 year prospective sunset for the Constitutionality of Affirmative Action.

    With a mere nine years left, you'd expect more discussions of the end of Affirmative Action.

    Cannot wait for that to get explained away in 2028. AA yesterday, AA today, AA forever!!!

  93. @Jack D
    The word trek is itself racist as it came into English as a result of the Great Trek of the Boers. Just as the American pioneers traveled west by wagon train (at around the same time) and pushed out the Native Americans, the Dutch traveled north (in order to get away from the Cape Colony and British rule) into the interior of Africa and in doing so pushed the local blacks off their lands.

    The main reason the Boers wanted to get away was similar to the conflict in the US over slavery, with the British playing the part of the Abolitionists and the Boers wanting to keep their black slaves and the right to beat them as necessary. The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 - the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    There was also a rural-urban class element. The Cape Dutch were urbanized and adapted well to British rule. Like the Dutch in NY, they were Anglophiles and integrated well with the British elites. But the Boers were rural (sort of Trumpian non-college whites) and didn't mesh well with the Brits - didn't speak the language, didn't identify with the culture. Like some alt-righters, they saw separation from the elites and setting up their own regime in their own territory where they could order society in the way that they preferred as their only viable solution.

    So trek is really a euphemism for "journey of colonial conquest by racists" and should be banned.

    As for the New Brunswick girls, while it's true that the physical distance to Boston from NB is no more than many parts of the US, I would say that the psychological distance is greater. Most Canadian HS grads go to Canadian universities, mainly because tuition is very low (and basically free to the low income). Usually foreigners are not eligible for scholarships at US universities but maybe Harvard made an exception for this wonderfully vibrant family - otherwise, even on a doctor's salary, it's hard to imagine how they could have afforded Harvard tuition for 5 girls - you are talking upwards of $1 million US.

    The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 – the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    Hadn’t heard that. Do you have a reference?

    The government allocated 20M pounds, about 40% of the annual budget or about 5% of Britain’s GDP. That’s a remarkable amount of money, for then or any other time.

    For instance, an equivalent sum in America today would be $1600B. Interestingly, roughly the low end of what has been proposed as appropriate reparations for slavery and Jim Crow.

    The best I’ve been able to find about the number of slaves freed was 800,000, but that may be low. The 20M would work out to about 25 pounds each, but the amounts paid were apparently often much lower, including the largest single owner, an earl, who got about 10 pounds each.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Trek#Causes

    See footnote 3

    This is what the book says:

    Without doubt, the most influential Voortrekker was the aristocratic Piet Retief, who was highly respected by Boers and British alike. Although a failed businessman, he was a wily politician, a wealthy farmer, and a field commandant. His eventual approval of the trek was the spark that ignited the fire of mass disaffection amongst the Boers. His own decision had been made with the passing of the 1834 Act of Emancipation and British offer of compensation for their ‘lost’ slaves. Compensation was indeed offered but payment had to be made in London. No Boer could afford this undertaking and the loss of their slave workforce would have destroyed many Boer businesses and farms. To gain a few months’ grace, the Boers designated their slaves as ‘apprentices’ while they busily prepared for the trek.
  94. In reality, the South was favored by the Federal gov. in the post WWII era – most of NASA’s money went into the South – Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc. T

    Less that 1% of all federal spending is allocated to NASA.

  95. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    I think that the problem with crime in the Caribbean is the relatively easy travel between Caribbean islands, drawing young men from the more dysfunctional islands to the better functioning (former British colonies) islands for work and as young men are want they cause a lot of trouble.

    I was in St. Thomas USVI a few years ago for the Boy Scout Tournament in Red Hook, and the way it works there is that they drive on the left and you get these private cab services. We hooked up with a husband and wife couple who were both refugees from the volcano eruption in Montserrat.

    One morning the wife was the driver and I was in the passenger seat. We came to a four way intersection where there was a car crash and a few dozen young men arguing on the verge of brawling. The wife looks over at me as says "N*ggas always F*ck everything up" while shaking her head.

    It turns out that they were Haitian laborers, and the reputation of Haitians in the USVI is that of troublemakers and criminally inclined.

    Not sure how moving criminal tendencies around increases overall crime rates, unless you’re suggesting that free of family supervision, young men are making the world worse.

    Homicide rates in the Caribbean are all over the map and have in recent years varied by a factor of 25, with the central tendency around about 18 per 100,000. The worst places include some of the most affluent territories (USVI) and some of the poorest (Jamaica). Generally, the French and the Dutch territories are quieter than the Anglophone territories.

  96. As if the number of Nobels awarded is a credible rejoinder to the proposition.

  97. @Jack D
    Only by Elizabeth Warren standards. I think 6% is the total non-European admixture, it's not all black. The admixture occurred in a very early period before there were adequate supplies of white women available to the Dutch settlers and the wives were more often from other Dutch East India colonies (India, Malaysia) than from Africa. Someone who is 6% non-European from an ancient admixture rarely if ever has visible non-European features. A recent mix may not be fully homogenized and occasionally you get a throwback who takes after great-grandma even though he is 15/16 white but after many generations people tend to look true to their genetic mix. If you look at Afrikaners they look like ordinary white people.


    There are distinct groups of mixed race "coloureds" in S. Africa who are visibly and culturally non-white but these are quite distinct from the Afrikaners.

    Visibly distinct.

    Their home language is Afrikaans, and I think they generally belong to Calvinist denominations. There was a team from the American Universities Field Staff who produced a country study in South Africa in 1963; one of their conclusions was that the Cape Coloured and the Cape Afrikaner were the only major communal groups who seemed to have any mutual sympathy. One of the curios at the end of the apartheid era was that the Cape Coloured formed most of the electoral constituency of the National Party for a while. Coloured voters have put the opposition over the top in the Western Cape, making it the one part of the country the machine cannot crack.

  98. @Thea
    American whites, particularly the working class, are sleepwalking to the same fate as Indian tribes but without casinos. Someday future Americans will brag about their 1/64 European ancestry. The Chinese, upper cast Hindus, mulattos and Jews will continue to tax us for pointless wars and handouts. It’ll all end with a whimper.

    they are not sleepwalking towards it, there are active forces suppressing the white working class from doing anything about it.

  99. CCZ says:

    Does this void the “Zeroth Amendment”??

    “The Statue of Liberty was created to celebrate freed slaves, not immigrants….” (Washington Post, May 23, 2019)

    “Last week, the Statue of Liberty Museum opened on the island, offering details about how French workers constructed their 150-foot-tall gift to America, as well as how the statue became a symbol of freedom across the world.

    They also spotlight a bit of history that is often forgotten: that the French creators intended the statue as a commemoration of the abolition of slavery in the United States.”

    (“New museum showcases the history of the Statue of Liberty” By Julia Jacobs, New York Times, May 18, 2019).

    Apparently, the immigrant worship came later.

    • Replies: @bjondo
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/statue-liberty-was-originally-muslim-woman-180957377/

    the immigrant worship was for a class of russian immigrants favored by emma lazarus.

    manufactured stuff.
  100. @Anonymous

    The really interesting subgroup of blacks,IMHO, is descendants of immigrants from the Caribbean.
     
    Wasn't the Caribbean the first stop for many slave ships?

    A258, you are correct, the ships would tie up and the future slaves would enjoy a week at one of the many All-Inclusive Resorts that dot the Caribbean before reboarding and heading to the cotton field of the Old South.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Blacks on some islands brag they were the first pick of the buyers, before the ships moved on to other islands or the mainland.
  101. @CCZ
    Does this void the "Zeroth Amendment"??

    "The Statue of Liberty was created to celebrate freed slaves, not immigrants...." (Washington Post, May 23, 2019)

    "Last week, the Statue of Liberty Museum opened on the island, offering details about how French workers constructed their 150-foot-tall gift to America, as well as how the statue became a symbol of freedom across the world.

    They also spotlight a bit of history that is often forgotten: that the French creators intended the statue as a commemoration of the abolition of slavery in the United States."

    ("New museum showcases the history of the Statue of Liberty" By Julia Jacobs, New York Times, May 18, 2019).

    Apparently, the immigrant worship came later.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/statue-liberty-was-originally-muslim-woman-180957377/

    the immigrant worship was for a class of russian immigrants favored by emma lazarus.

    manufactured stuff.

  102. @OilcanFloyd
    Most people will laugh at that statement, but there is truth to it. I've read memoirs of some planters, and among those that I have read, some had genuine paternal feelings for blacks, while voicing nothing but disgust for free whites farmers and settlers. The class lines among whites in the South were often stark.

    There is also visual evidence of the difference in lifestyles between poor whites and slaves. Both groups worked hard, but there was no welfare for whites, and slaves, being expensive investments, were at least given the basics for survival. I've seen slave quarters and homes of white small farmers, and the slave quarters I saw were the better of the two. The typical settler home was a rough structure, not much better than a frontier cabin, while the slaves lived in single-family tabby structures made with milled wood. Poor whites probably had a similar standard of living throughout the South. Slave lives likely varied by plantation.

    Oilcan, there were many slaves that lived in the barns and shacks of their dirt poor owners. Not every slave owner lived in a “Tara” plantation mansion. A very good read is “Bullwhip Days, The Slaves Remember, An Oral History” edited by James Mellon or “The Peculiar Institution, Slavery in the Ante Bellum South.” by Kenneth M. Stampp. Either book will give you a better understanding of slave conditions from owner to owner.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    I've read and heard different oral histories, so I am aware that some slaves were treated poorly. On average, though, slaves were pretty well taken care of. I'm also not sure how many dirt poor people could afford a slave, since slaves were not cheap, though I'm sure that more than a few people wrecked their finances trying to get rich off of slaves that they couldn't afford. What's new?

    I'm not defending slavery. The whole nation would have been better off without the planter class of the South, the slavers and shippers of the North, and everyone who made money off the trade and produce of slaves, just as we would be better off without the robber baron capitalists and phoney reformers who defeated them.
    , @Anonymous

    Oilcan, there were many slaves that lived in the barns and shacks of their dirt poor owners.
     
    They probably treated each other as close to peers, in circumstances like that.
  103. @Logan
    The British offered compensation for liberated slaves but there was a clever Catch-22 – the former slave owner had to go to London to personally pick up the check.

    Hadn't heard that. Do you have a reference?

    The government allocated 20M pounds, about 40% of the annual budget or about 5% of Britain's GDP. That's a remarkable amount of money, for then or any other time.

    For instance, an equivalent sum in America today would be $1600B. Interestingly, roughly the low end of what has been proposed as appropriate reparations for slavery and Jim Crow.

    The best I've been able to find about the number of slaves freed was 800,000, but that may be low. The 20M would work out to about 25 pounds each, but the amounts paid were apparently often much lower, including the largest single owner, an earl, who got about 10 pounds each.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Trek#Causes

    See footnote 3

    This is what the book says:

    Without doubt, the most influential Voortrekker was the aristocratic Piet Retief, who was highly respected by Boers and British alike. Although a failed businessman, he was a wily politician, a wealthy farmer, and a field commandant. His eventual approval of the trek was the spark that ignited the fire of mass disaffection amongst the Boers. His own decision had been made with the passing of the 1834 Act of Emancipation and British offer of compensation for their ‘lost’ slaves. Compensation was indeed offered but payment had to be made in London. No Boer could afford this undertaking and the loss of their slave workforce would have destroyed many Boer businesses and farms. To gain a few months’ grace, the Boers designated their slaves as ‘apprentices’ while they busily prepared for the trek.

  104. Black folk have the odd distinction of being the most likely of us to be descended from slave owners. Wasn’t it Pogo who said “we met the enemy and he is us”?

  105. @Buffalo Joe
    Oilcan, there were many slaves that lived in the barns and shacks of their dirt poor owners. Not every slave owner lived in a "Tara" plantation mansion. A very good read is "Bullwhip Days, The Slaves Remember, An Oral History" edited by James Mellon or "The Peculiar Institution, Slavery in the Ante Bellum South." by Kenneth M. Stampp. Either book will give you a better understanding of slave conditions from owner to owner.

    I’ve read and heard different oral histories, so I am aware that some slaves were treated poorly. On average, though, slaves were pretty well taken care of. I’m also not sure how many dirt poor people could afford a slave, since slaves were not cheap, though I’m sure that more than a few people wrecked their finances trying to get rich off of slaves that they couldn’t afford. What’s new?

    I’m not defending slavery. The whole nation would have been better off without the planter class of the South, the slavers and shippers of the North, and everyone who made money off the trade and produce of slaves, just as we would be better off without the robber baron capitalists and phoney reformers who defeated them.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Wilberforce was no phony, nor Newton.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    oilcan, Thank you nice reply.
  106. @Colin Wright
    Does anyone ever notice that overwhelmingly, the 'blacks' able to function in society at anything above the level of manual laborer -- and overwhelmingly, those who benefit from affirmative action -- are an average of maybe 40% black, genetically?

    Effectively, nothing is done for actual, 80-100% black blacks -- they're usually too dumb to take advantage. This doesn't especially disturb me -- although they could be better cared for -- but it's worth pointing out.

    In “To Kill A Mockingbird” Atticus Finch says at one point something along the lines of “the most disgusting thing is a white person taking advantage of a black man.”

    James Thompson of this parish illustrated

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-7-tribes-of-intellect/?highlight=Five

    the very large numbers of people whose understanding of the world is (let’s be generous) sketchy. Don’t those people need some protection from the sharks… and from themselves?

    Asking for a friend.

  107. REMEMBER, SOUTH AFRICAN FARM ATTACKS ARE NOT HAPPENING

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1131108/South-africa-white-farmers-annette-Kennealy-death-democratic-alliance

    Annette Kennealy, 51, was founded with multiple wounds to the body on her land in Limpopo province. Colonel Moatshe Ngoepe, a police spokesman, said: “Family members tried to call her without success, until one of them went to investigate. “On arrival he found the deceased inside the house.”

    Attacks against South Africa’s white farmers are on the rise with some victims being tortured with electric drills, blowtorches and bleach, according to reports.

    Research by Afriforum, a group which champions the rights of the country’s Afrikaner minority, released earlier this year said assaults on the farms shot up 25 percent last year.

    REMEMBER, SOUTH AFRICAN FARM ATTACKS ARE BOT HAPPENING

  108. @OilcanFloyd
    I've read and heard different oral histories, so I am aware that some slaves were treated poorly. On average, though, slaves were pretty well taken care of. I'm also not sure how many dirt poor people could afford a slave, since slaves were not cheap, though I'm sure that more than a few people wrecked their finances trying to get rich off of slaves that they couldn't afford. What's new?

    I'm not defending slavery. The whole nation would have been better off without the planter class of the South, the slavers and shippers of the North, and everyone who made money off the trade and produce of slaves, just as we would be better off without the robber baron capitalists and phoney reformers who defeated them.

    Wilberforce was no phony, nor Newton.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Yes, many abolitionists were sincere, and many only appear as phonies when presented in today's light. But how many northerners believed that blacks and whites were actually equal, or could live together as equals? A good argument could be made that Lincoln didn't. I don't think a good case can be made that the South was destroyed so that blacks and whites could live together as equals throughout the nation. Teddy Roosevelt certainly balked at elevating blacks over further European immigration to expand the labor supply in the North, and that was 40 years after the war.
  109. Given that slavery in the US was perfectly legal until it was abolished and that the Constitution forbids ex post facto laws (i.e., retroactive justice) the case for “reparations” is DOA. Unless of course the rabid Left wants to tear it up and start over with one that favors the “historically oppressed.”

    BTW if you search for “slavery abolished worldwide” the first one that shows up on Google is Reuters, which makes no mention of it outside Western Civ. You’d think only evil whitey was the only one to practice the infernal institution.

    • Replies: @res

    You’d think only evil whitey was the only one to practice the infernal institution.
     
    Well, in the Current Year that sentence would almost be correct if you added a not.
    https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence
  110. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    I don't see Amy Wax mentioned, forgive this if you've already heard it, but she has a book raising the point that legal disputes are not a straightforward blame game. Concerning an injured party who must be made whole and unambiguous guilt on the part of say somebody who should have de-iced a sidewalk, the overwhelming majority of work to make whole the victim falls to -- the victim!
    It is the victim who must attend and obey physical therapy. It is the victim who must take drugs and modify his diet. It is the victim who must suffer through pain and inconvenience. The guilty person might pay a fee but his responsibility, and in fact his ability to help, ends there. A depressed victim who stops going to the clinic and lets his leg mis-heal becomes his own abuser.
    The case for monetary reparations is invalid for several reasons but most notably because they wouldn't be reparations.

    When will White people demand reparations for the violence inflicted on them by Blacks?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    If there's one thing we should learn from the Jews it's that forgiveness can wait.
  111. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    A258, you are correct, the ships would tie up and the future slaves would enjoy a week at one of the many All-Inclusive Resorts that dot the Caribbean before reboarding and heading to the cotton field of the Old South.

    Blacks on some islands brag they were the first pick of the buyers, before the ships moved on to other islands or the mainland.

  112. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buffalo Joe
    Oilcan, there were many slaves that lived in the barns and shacks of their dirt poor owners. Not every slave owner lived in a "Tara" plantation mansion. A very good read is "Bullwhip Days, The Slaves Remember, An Oral History" edited by James Mellon or "The Peculiar Institution, Slavery in the Ante Bellum South." by Kenneth M. Stampp. Either book will give you a better understanding of slave conditions from owner to owner.

    Oilcan, there were many slaves that lived in the barns and shacks of their dirt poor owners.

    They probably treated each other as close to peers, in circumstances like that.

  113. @Desiderius
    Wilberforce was no phony, nor Newton.

    Yes, many abolitionists were sincere, and many only appear as phonies when presented in today’s light. But how many northerners believed that blacks and whites were actually equal, or could live together as equals? A good argument could be made that Lincoln didn’t. I don’t think a good case can be made that the South was destroyed so that blacks and whites could live together as equals throughout the nation. Teddy Roosevelt certainly balked at elevating blacks over further European immigration to expand the labor supply in the North, and that was 40 years after the war.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Teddy Roosevelt certainly balked at elevating blacks over further European immigration to expand the labor supply in the North
     
    Do you have a quote?
  114. @Jivilov
    Given that slavery in the US was perfectly legal until it was abolished and that the Constitution forbids ex post facto laws (i.e., retroactive justice) the case for "reparations" is DOA. Unless of course the rabid Left wants to tear it up and start over with one that favors the "historically oppressed."

    BTW if you search for "slavery abolished worldwide" the first one that shows up on Google is Reuters, which makes no mention of it outside Western Civ. You'd think only evil whitey was the only one to practice the infernal institution.

    You’d think only evil whitey was the only one to practice the infernal institution.

    Well, in the Current Year that sentence would almost be correct if you added a not.
    https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence

  115. Anonymous[258] • Disclaimer says:
    @OilcanFloyd
    Yes, many abolitionists were sincere, and many only appear as phonies when presented in today's light. But how many northerners believed that blacks and whites were actually equal, or could live together as equals? A good argument could be made that Lincoln didn't. I don't think a good case can be made that the South was destroyed so that blacks and whites could live together as equals throughout the nation. Teddy Roosevelt certainly balked at elevating blacks over further European immigration to expand the labor supply in the North, and that was 40 years after the war.

    Teddy Roosevelt certainly balked at elevating blacks over further European immigration to expand the labor supply in the North

    Do you have a quote?

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    This is something I studied in college, so I don't remember all of the books I used. If you are really interested, go look into Washington's speech at the Atlanta Exposition, his talks with Roosevelt about training blacks instead of importing European laborers. Needless to say, another wave or two of Europeans followed, and we later wrecked public education in an attempt to accommodate blacks. We now import labor and educated workers.
  116. @OilcanFloyd
    I've read and heard different oral histories, so I am aware that some slaves were treated poorly. On average, though, slaves were pretty well taken care of. I'm also not sure how many dirt poor people could afford a slave, since slaves were not cheap, though I'm sure that more than a few people wrecked their finances trying to get rich off of slaves that they couldn't afford. What's new?

    I'm not defending slavery. The whole nation would have been better off without the planter class of the South, the slavers and shippers of the North, and everyone who made money off the trade and produce of slaves, just as we would be better off without the robber baron capitalists and phoney reformers who defeated them.

    oilcan, Thank you nice reply.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Thank you, too.
  117. If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’

  118. @Anonymous

    Teddy Roosevelt certainly balked at elevating blacks over further European immigration to expand the labor supply in the North
     
    Do you have a quote?

    This is something I studied in college, so I don’t remember all of the books I used. If you are really interested, go look into Washington’s speech at the Atlanta Exposition, his talks with Roosevelt about training blacks instead of importing European laborers. Needless to say, another wave or two of Europeans followed, and we later wrecked public education in an attempt to accommodate blacks. We now import labor and educated workers.

  119. @Buffalo Joe
    oilcan, Thank you nice reply.

    Thank you, too.

  120. @Anonymous
    When will White people demand reparations for the violence inflicted on them by Blacks?

    If there’s one thing we should learn from the Jews it’s that forgiveness can wait.

  121. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:

    My neighbors in Atlanta had a slang term, “millionaires”. This was 20 years ago. Reparations was already a big thing in the black community.

  122. Anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Affirmative action was set up 50 years ago in part as reparations for American slavery, but it has tended to evolve into a bizarre system of preferences for those least impacted by American slavery.
     
    I don't know if it evolved this way or if it was the original tacit intention.

    I don't think institutions like Harvard necessarily envisaged affirmative action, at least at their elite institutions, going to the blackest, most benighted and ignorant blacks from the inner city or wherever. Rather they probably always imagined it going to blacks who could lead and represent "the community", while at the same time not being so black that they couldn't navigate elite white circles. Naturally, this has meant promoting light skinned, foreign, and part white blacks.

    Like Prohibition, Affirmative Action is based on an optimistic view of human nature. Prohibitionists believed that people were born basically straight and orderly, and were led astray by alcohol. Just take away the alcohol and you’ll have a better society. After a few years however, the sad truth became apparent: It’s not alcohol that turns people into screw-ups. It’s screw-ups who turn into alcoholics.

    Similarly, Affirmative Action was established in the optimistic belief that certain ethnic groups are messed up because they were historically oppressed. Remove the oppression, give them a helping hand, and they’ll soon be just like everybody else. The dark truth, which few people want to accept, is that the causality runs the other way: They aren’t backward because they were oppressed; they were oppressed because they were backward.

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