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Here’s a pretty funny story from biologist Jerry Coyne’s blog about affirmative action in Brazil. Around the turn of the century, Brazil introduced racial affirmative action and, not surprisingly, that has led to countless brouhahas over who should qualify for what preference.

Brazil’s nonstop history of Elizabeth Warren-type controversies over affirmative action brings up the interesting question of why there are so few in the United States, especially over people trying to horn in on the huge quota benefits of being black.

Race as a “social construct”: trouble in Brazil

I’m writing this because reader Cindy called my attention to an NPR article describing how Brazil is now using skin color to determine who fits into various categories subject to affirmative action boosts. Brazil has “race tribunals” to place people in “racial” groups, and the traits used can include more than just skin color.

The NPR story starts with Lucas Siqueira, who got a coveted government job in Brazil after scoring well on a test and identifying himself as “mixed race.”

Since 2014, 20% of government jobs are reserved for blacks or mixed races. Siqueira was applying for a hoity-toity job as a diplomat.

People looked at his Facebook page, determined he didn’t look “mixed race” but white, and they complained bitterly. The government put his job on hold. The story then gets really bizarre\:

. . . . in order to “prove” that he was Afro-Brazilian, [Siqueira’s] lawyers needed to find some criteria. He went to seven dermatologists who used something called the Fitzpatrick scale that grades skin tone from one to seven, or whitest to darkest. The last doctor even had a special machine.

“Apparently on my face I’m a Type 4. Which would be like Jennifer Lopez or Dev Patel, Frida Pinto or John Stamos. On my limbs I would be Type 5, which is Halle Berry, Will Smith, Beyonce and Tiger Woods,” he said.

Scientists typically measure skin tone on the inside of the upper arm as being unlikely to be tanned. But if you had a good government job on the line depending on how tanned the inside of your upper arms got, I could see sunbathing on Copacabana Beach with your arms in an uncomfortable position.

Like most people he has different skin tones on different parts of his body. But in none of these tests did he come out as lighter skinned.

He says the whole thing struck him as completely bizarre because identity, he says, is made up of more than just physical characteristics. [JAC: but to me, the important thing is whether discrimination is based on more than just physical characteristics.]

But this wasn’t just an isolated incident.

Mandatory for all government jobs

A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century.

“It is something terrible. I believe this kind of strategy can weaken the support of society for affirmative action policies,” says Amílcar Pereira, an associate professor at the School of Education in the Federal University of Rio, who studies race relations. “These policies have huge support … the majority of Brazilian society supports affirmative action.”

“But this kind of commission can jeopardize the support because it’s so controversial. It’s unacceptable to come back to the 19th century, to determine who is black and who is not,” he says.

But the race commissions have a lot of support from the black community.

In Brazil, there was no One Drop rule, which in United States keeps genealogy, genotype, and phenotype all pretty well correlated. To successfully pass from black to white in the U.S., you not only had to look pretty white, you had to stop associating with your blacker looking relatives. So, that was quite uncommon.

Thus, America has countless affirmative action systems with relatively few controversies, especially over whether or not someone qualifies as black. That’s because most people in America (outside of Hispanics) who have black ancestors either have a lot of black ancestors or very few black ancestors.

So, in the U.S. there are surprisingly few controversies over whether somebody qualifies for a Black Privilege quota. Either they have black relatives whom they publicly identify with or they don’t. Like I’ve often said, to my surprise when I really worked through these issues about 15+ years ago, the U.S. system of racial classification for affirmative action purposes turns out to be good enough for government work.

In Brazil, however, two sisters could be seen as racially different, with the fairer one having better marriage prospects of finding a whiter husband than the darker sister. But this kind of selection on phenotype tends to lead to phenotype and genotype being less correlated than in the U.S.

The old North American One Drop view was that genes besides those expressed in skin color, features, and hair type also mattered. Just because somebody looked pretty white, if they had substantial black ancestry, they’d still be risky to marry.

The Brazilian view is less worried about how descendants will turn out. If somebody looks pretty white, then they are pretty white.

Plus, transracialism in Brazil is fashionable. The top Brazilian soccer star Neymar Jr. was a normal looking 16-year-old black youth, but then used his new fortune to give himself a racially ambiguous Hawaiian surf punk look.

 
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  1. Anonymous[679] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, you’ve probably already seen this, but if not this is real iSteve bait:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180425

    Key quote:

    Merkel pointed to a disturbing rise in anti-Semitism not only among Germans but among the many Arabic-speaking asylum seekers who have sought refuge in Germany.

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  2. AndrewR says:

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century

    .

    This defies credulity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @adreadline
    Whoever applies for a federal government job and declares himself to be black will have to stand before a commitee, who will, after presumably many hours of careful examination, decide if the applicant is actually black, or at least black enough. No family pictures and the like will be allowed.

    These commitees will be comprised of five people, at least some of which must be black. It was not made clear, in any of the sources I read, if there will be a second commitee to judge if the blacks comprising the first commitee are actually black.

    It's complicated.
    , @Silva
    Well, this is the site for the Permanent Commission for Verification of Ethno-racial Self-declarations of the university where I studied:

    http://www.ufrgs.br/acoesafirmativas/coordenadoria/comissao-verificacao-cpva .
    , @The King is A Fink
    This harks back to the bad old days of Apartheid in South Africa. There were quite specific guidelines for determining race classifications.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_Registration_Act,_1950

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil_test_(South_Africa)
     
    From the latter article:

    It remains an important part of South African cultural heritage and a symbol of racism.
     
    , @Pat Boyle
    I was in high school in 1958. But it was a Catholic military high school in Washington DC. I rebelled. I wanted to meet girls at school. I told my mother I was afraid I would become a homosexual if I was only around boys.

    That was the winning argument.

    So I tried to enroll in Washington Lee - the public high school near our house in Arlington Virginia. But in those days you couldn't just go to the school and sign up. First you had to pass the scrutiny of the racial board. So I showed up in person at this government office in an old house and presented myself to a panel of three middle aged white people - one a woman.

    I passed. I was white enough. I should think so. I'm so pale I get a sunburn indoors under a blanket. As I remember the whole thing only took a few minutes. No measurements. No paperwork.
    , @AnotherDad

    This defies credulity.
     
    Not at all.

    It's actually the entirely predictably result of combining diversity and democracy. The result is, of course, contention among the "diverse" "population groups" over public goods.

    We've got all our affirmative action whining here. Then you have Asians whining that they aren't getting enough elite college representation at only 5x population share. In India you have reservation riots and have various caste groups, trying to get themselves classified as "backward" in order to get more goodies for their members.

    This is all inevitable if you are saddled with diversity. Avoidable only if you can maintain yourself as a real, one-people, nation.

    Diversity is our strength!
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    It's not 100% like this. Not everyone has to tell their race and submit to this weird racial screening, only the people who claim to be black to get Affirmative Action.

    Due to the Affirmative Action law of 2014, all government jobs that are filled by public selection (which are most of them) have to reserve 20% of the positions to blacks. Candidates that want to fill the reserved positions have to declare their intention to do so upon subscription for the public selection (which is a written evaluation). Given that there was a lot of low level fraud (guy is tanned, says he's black), they instituted these comissions to decide if the candidate claiming blackness is black enough - yes, using the guidelines stated.

    It's quite absurd, anyway. But then, it was predicted as soon as Affirmative Action started that we would end doing this.
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  3. So the embarrassing ancestors of today’s Brazilians knew how to divide people up? Tell me again how bad our racial problem is in this country?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "So the embarrassing ancestors of today’s Brazilians knew how to divide people up? Tell me again how bad our racial problem is in this country?"

    Today's racial hierarchy in Brazil is the direct result of Portuguese importation. That is, the structures were put in place during colonial times and remain to this day.
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  4. I recall a documentary on Brazilian affirmative action that showed two identical twins go before different panels. One was determined to be white, the other black.

    That documentary said there’s a joke in Brazil about this process that says they should just turn it over to the police because they don’t seem to have any trouble figuring out who is black and who isn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    The joke gets more funny when you know that most of the Police Force in Brazil is black.
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  5. Lot says:

    Let me suggestion to everyone to edit down when possible the “tracking” part of your links, which improves both your privacy and those who follow your links.

    So for Anon679′s link, instead of

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180425

    Use:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke

    This system isn’t perfect, but does frustrate Big Zuckerbrother at least somewhat.

    You also can always delete the “amp” section of URLs that Google increasingly uses by getting to the original page, not Google’s version of it that has “amp” in it.

    Finally, try to link to sites that do not use tracking URLs that are full of a long string of random numbers or letters.

    For example, here is a typical Guardian link:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/macron-goes-against-trump-on-paris-climate-deal-and-iran-nuclear-accord

    It not only contains no tracking strings, it also makes its content clear.

    By contrast, the Bezos Post not only uses tracking URLs, but makes the links fail if you try to delete the tracking section, which NPR at least does not do.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cohen-says-he-would-invoke-his-fifth-amendment-right-in-stormy-daniels-case/2018/04/25/aasdfaw4554egs78a7gddsdf789ee_story.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, Lot, I cut off the end of the links to Takimag articles and IMDB movie review pages for this reason when I put links in here or on my blog. That is interesting about the Bezos Post not letting the stripped link bring up the correct page. It'd be fun to try messing with the long code to see what it took to get the right page to load.
    , @J.Ross
    This is very good.
    I find when I link from Taki's that I am assigned an identification number and it is tacked on to the URL.
    Also replace the word "you" in YouTube links with "hook." Defeats tracking, shadow banning, age limits and EvilCorp.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. I could see sunbathing on Copacabana Beach with your arms in an uncomfortable position.

    Ha. I was thinking of something like this just before I got to the sentence – tanning beds, focused UV lights, shoe polish, whatever it takes.

    In Brazil, however, two sisters could be seen as racially different, with the fairer one having better marriage prospects of finding a whiter husband than the darker sister.

    I guess we’ll need to start up affirmative action for this too now. How much taxpayer money in the form of silicone and plastic surgery will it take to sweeten the pot for some guys?

    Read More
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  7. @AndrewR

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century
     
    .

    This defies credulity.

    Whoever applies for a federal government job and declares himself to be black will have to stand before a commitee, who will, after presumably many hours of careful examination, decide if the applicant is actually black, or at least black enough. No family pictures and the like will be allowed.

    These commitees will be comprised of five people, at least some of which must be black. It was not made clear, in any of the sources I read, if there will be a second commitee to judge if the blacks comprising the first commitee are actually black.

    It’s complicated.

    Read More
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  8. @Lot
    Let me suggestion to everyone to edit down when possible the "tracking" part of your links, which improves both your privacy and those who follow your links.

    So for Anon679's link, instead of

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180425

    Use:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke

    This system isn't perfect, but does frustrate Big Zuckerbrother at least somewhat.

    You also can always delete the "amp" section of URLs that Google increasingly uses by getting to the original page, not Google's version of it that has "amp" in it.

    Finally, try to link to sites that do not use tracking URLs that are full of a long string of random numbers or letters.

    For example, here is a typical Guardian link:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/macron-goes-against-trump-on-paris-climate-deal-and-iran-nuclear-accord

    It not only contains no tracking strings, it also makes its content clear.

    By contrast, the Bezos Post not only uses tracking URLs, but makes the links fail if you try to delete the tracking section, which NPR at least does not do.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cohen-says-he-would-invoke-his-fifth-amendment-right-in-stormy-daniels-case/2018/04/25/aasdfaw4554egs78a7gddsdf789ee_story.html

    Yeah, Lot, I cut off the end of the links to Takimag articles and IMDB movie review pages for this reason when I put links in here or on my blog. That is interesting about the Bezos Post not letting the stripped link bring up the correct page. It’d be fun to try messing with the long code to see what it took to get the right page to load.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Didn't know that about the Washington Post. The first thing I'd try is to go in to any random story via the top page of the site using Tor Browser and copy the tracking part, save it, then use it in place of the tracking part of other links. If it doesn't work they may have a checksum of some sort hidden in there.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. anonymous[397] • Disclaimer says:

    In Brazil he’s considered white; over here that swarthy dude would really be borderline. With DNA testing now so cheap why do they bother with skin color evaluations? Race tribunals sounds like an idea that could catch on here. One of the reasons Brazil is such an advanced country.

    Read More
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  10. In South Africa, the test to distinguish between Europeans and Cape Coloureds was the “pencil test” – was the hair curly enough to hold a pencil.

    And that was a really high stakes test.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    No perms in the 80’s then?
    , @syonredux

    In South Africa, the test to distinguish between Europeans and Cape Coloureds was the “pencil test” – was the hair curly enough to hold a pencil.
     
    I think that you mean "kinky enough."

    I remember hearing about that test in High School. We tried it out. Not even the curliest-haired White kid in school could do it; the pencil always dropped.
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  11. Silva says:
    @AndrewR

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century
     
    .

    This defies credulity.

    Well, this is the site for the Permanent Commission for Verification of Ethno-racial Self-declarations of the university where I studied:

    http://www.ufrgs.br/acoesafirmativas/coordenadoria/comissao-verificacao-cpva .

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Lot
    Let me suggestion to everyone to edit down when possible the "tracking" part of your links, which improves both your privacy and those who follow your links.

    So for Anon679's link, instead of

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180425

    Use:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/25/605600296/germanys-jewish-community-responds-after-man-attacked-for-wearing-yarmulke

    This system isn't perfect, but does frustrate Big Zuckerbrother at least somewhat.

    You also can always delete the "amp" section of URLs that Google increasingly uses by getting to the original page, not Google's version of it that has "amp" in it.

    Finally, try to link to sites that do not use tracking URLs that are full of a long string of random numbers or letters.

    For example, here is a typical Guardian link:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/macron-goes-against-trump-on-paris-climate-deal-and-iran-nuclear-accord

    It not only contains no tracking strings, it also makes its content clear.

    By contrast, the Bezos Post not only uses tracking URLs, but makes the links fail if you try to delete the tracking section, which NPR at least does not do.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cohen-says-he-would-invoke-his-fifth-amendment-right-in-stormy-daniels-case/2018/04/25/aasdfaw4554egs78a7gddsdf789ee_story.html

    This is very good.
    I find when I link from Taki’s that I am assigned an identification number and it is tacked on to the URL.
    Also replace the word “you” in YouTube links with “hook.” Defeats tracking, shadow banning, age limits and EvilCorp.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Anonym says:

    They might use behavior to also identify the black cluster. E.g. dancing ability, music taste, criminal convictions…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Silva
    Awful behavior common among all races here.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. J.Ross says: • Website

    OT Spike Lee’s next film is going to be that Chapelle Show sketch.

    http://www.indiewire.com/2018/04/spike-lee-blackkklansman-footage-details-trailer-1201957361/

    Read More
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    Update: this is about a white detective going undercover to COINTELPRO a Klan chapter in a non-Southern state. He has a black partner who is somehow "the black klansman" and not, say, the black partner of a white cop. It's two hours of DRUMPF IS STUPID and RACISTS CANNOT TIE SHOELACES. The Indiewire reviewer has a line about how a Klansman shouting a Trump slogan "had a lot of people thinking about Trump." Not only is everthing always about white perfidy and the forty-fifth president, but journalists can read thoughts.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Tiny Duck says:

    All this will be moot in good time seeing as his white horns are increasingly birthing Children of Color

    Read More
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  16. Silva says:
    @Anonym
    They might use behavior to also identify the black cluster. E.g. dancing ability, music taste, criminal convictions...

    Awful behavior common among all races here.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. Anonymous[192] • Disclaimer says:

    On Brazilian birth certificates there is no race classification, but one that says “cor” (color).

    Read More
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  18. J.Ross says: • Website
    @J.Ross
    OT Spike Lee's next film is going to be that Chapelle Show sketch.
    http://www.indiewire.com/2018/04/spike-lee-blackkklansman-footage-details-trailer-1201957361/

    Update: this is about a white detective going undercover to COINTELPRO a Klan chapter in a non-Southern state. He has a black partner who is somehow “the black klansman” and not, say, the black partner of a white cop. It’s two hours of DRUMPF IS STUPID and RACISTS CANNOT TIE SHOELACES. The Indiewire reviewer has a line about how a Klansman shouting a Trump slogan “had a lot of people thinking about Trump.” Not only is everthing always about white perfidy and the forty-fifth president, but journalists can read thoughts.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. PaceLaw says:

    Interesting that the black-white continuum found in Brazil also exists in most of Spanish-speaking America. I was deployed to Puerto Rico for disaster relief last year. A local Puerto Rican guy I worked with put together a demographic map for the poor, disabled and elderly communities, but said that it would be impossible to do that for race. He said that very few people there identify as black (you pretty much have to be directly from Africa), even though it is readily apparent that there’s a decent amount of admixture there. I’m African American, but if I lived in Puerto Rico I could easily opt out of that category based upon my skin color and features.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Unzerker

    very few people there identify as black (you pretty much have to be directly from Africa), even though it is readily apparent that there’s a decent amount of admixture there.
     
    There are a lot of movies on youtube of Puerto Ricans who reveal their DNA test. Pretty much all of them have between 60-70% European DNA with the rest divided between Native American and African. Usually with the Native American part dominating.

    Personally, I wouldn't call that black. But the USA has a pretty binary view of race.
    , @S. Anonyia
    It existed in French-speaking America too. There are remnants of Creoles around here, and those who didn't get absorbed into the black community (most did, and I guess a few passed as white too) declared themselves to be Indians. Most of them look like the picture of this Brazilian guy. I'd guess they are like 25-30 % African, they mostly marry each other.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. istevefan says:

    The old North American One Drop

    On a few occasions on this blog I’ve seen some commenters criticize the one drop rule. Hopefully your last couple of posts about Brazil have shed some more light on this topic and showed its purpose.

    Like I’ve often said, to my surprise when I really worked through these issues about 15+ years ago, the U.S. system of racial classification for affirmative action purposes turns out to be good enough for government work.

    The problem we have is that the government has allowed peoples with no historical record of discrimination to come into the country and immediately partake of this gravy train. Mexicans, Central Americans, and various peoples from around the non-European world get in on the action.

    Also Africans, whose ancestors might have sold the ancestors of our blacks into slavery, qualify for AA, which I believe is wrong. Africans from the other side of Africa, which wasn’t even involved in the Atlantic slave trade, qualify for AA which, I also believe is wrong.

    So we don’t have many Elizabeth Warrens, but we have millions who have no business getting AA getting in on the action. And as you have pointed out, often times American blacks who are the descendants of slaves are getting left out because of these interlopers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    As I understand it, it was black organisations themselves that lobbied for extension of AA privileges to non-Black minorities. This was to increase the size of the political constituency in favor of these programs. You can see the logic of this: if non-black minorities weren't benefiting from these programs they would agitate to abolish them. As it is they're supportive, or at least neutral.
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  21. Twinkie says:
    @jimmyriddle
    In South Africa, the test to distinguish between Europeans and Cape Coloureds was the "pencil test" - was the hair curly enough to hold a pencil.

    And that was a really high stakes test.

    No perms in the 80’s then?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mishra
    I'm totally liking the idea of a pencil test.

    Among other merits, it can be agreed upon by Asians and Wypipos alike.

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  22. Mishra says:

    Sigh. This insanity reminds me of how Jewishness is defined in Israel. (And in places like Monsey and Kiryas Joel for that matter.) But I’d better not mention that. How’s the weather where you guys are?

    Read More
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  23. Mishra says:
    @Twinkie
    No perms in the 80’s then?

    I’m totally liking the idea of a pencil test.

    Among other merits, it can be agreed upon by Asians and Wypipos alike.

    Read More
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  24. Anonymous[211] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    The old North American One Drop
     
    On a few occasions on this blog I've seen some commenters criticize the one drop rule. Hopefully your last couple of posts about Brazil have shed some more light on this topic and showed its purpose.

    Like I’ve often said, to my surprise when I really worked through these issues about 15+ years ago, the U.S. system of racial classification for affirmative action purposes turns out to be good enough for government work.
     
    The problem we have is that the government has allowed peoples with no historical record of discrimination to come into the country and immediately partake of this gravy train. Mexicans, Central Americans, and various peoples from around the non-European world get in on the action.

    Also Africans, whose ancestors might have sold the ancestors of our blacks into slavery, qualify for AA, which I believe is wrong. Africans from the other side of Africa, which wasn't even involved in the Atlantic slave trade, qualify for AA which, I also believe is wrong.

    So we don't have many Elizabeth Warrens, but we have millions who have no business getting AA getting in on the action. And as you have pointed out, often times American blacks who are the descendants of slaves are getting left out because of these interlopers.

    As I understand it, it was black organisations themselves that lobbied for extension of AA privileges to non-Black minorities. This was to increase the size of the political constituency in favor of these programs. You can see the logic of this: if non-black minorities weren’t benefiting from these programs they would agitate to abolish them. As it is they’re supportive, or at least neutral.

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  25. anon[382] • Disclaimer says:

    Test on the basis of how tan you are– easily gamed, obviously. But for the Establishment over there, that’s probably a good thing.

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  26. Anon[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, Lot, I cut off the end of the links to Takimag articles and IMDB movie review pages for this reason when I put links in here or on my blog. That is interesting about the Bezos Post not letting the stripped link bring up the correct page. It'd be fun to try messing with the long code to see what it took to get the right page to load.

    Didn’t know that about the Washington Post. The first thing I’d try is to go in to any random story via the top page of the site using Tor Browser and copy the tracking part, save it, then use it in place of the tracking part of other links. If it doesn’t work they may have a checksum of some sort hidden in there.

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  27. This guy has Caucasian features but since he’s Brazilian his dark skin would come from black ancestry.
    In Latin countries with large Indian populations, dark skin would come from the Indian side. Besides a DNA test, you need to look at his family. The actor Matthew McConaughey married a light-skinned black Brazilian woman.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    “OK RCC cuck.”

    No, it’s all in the Bible. Word for word. A strict interpretation of the Good Book.

    Corinthians 13:4-7–Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    John 3:20–For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    You made the statement. “Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.” It is clear that God values all human beings, based on just those two passages alone.

    Why do you insist on bastardizing the faith?
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    If you want to know lineage, DNA tests are needed ; but Affirmative Action in Brazil is definitely not about ancestry, but about phenotype. It's even written on the relevant legislation. A guy who is 25% African but doesn't look much so (believe me, it happens) cannot use Affirmative Action, while a guy who is 10% African but has more black features (also can happen) is entitled to it.
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  28. syonredux says:
    @jimmyriddle
    In South Africa, the test to distinguish between Europeans and Cape Coloureds was the "pencil test" - was the hair curly enough to hold a pencil.

    And that was a really high stakes test.

    In South Africa, the test to distinguish between Europeans and Cape Coloureds was the “pencil test” – was the hair curly enough to hold a pencil.

    I think that you mean “kinky enough.”

    I remember hearing about that test in High School. We tried it out. Not even the curliest-haired White kid in school could do it; the pencil always dropped.

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  29. Lloyd1927 says:

    The “one drop rule” is more of a negative ideal, like “liberty and justice for all” is a positive ideal. The truth is that, throughout American history, acceptance in the “white race” was based on a combination of phenotype AND social behavior (as opposed to absolute secrecy). It might be an open secret that certain families had a “touch of the tarbrush.” If you suspected a fellow white of having some black ancestry, wouldn’t you politely refrain from mentioning it? Most American whites would.

    Think of how we deal with the obvious Negroid genes in Latinos and Arabs. Americans are taught to politely refrain from mentioning their embarrassing relation to The Negro Race” in public. If there were a REAL one drop rule, nearly every Latino and Arab-American would be “black.”

    https://www.yalelawjournal.org/essay/the-secret-history-of-race-in-the-united-states

    http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/September-October-2003/story_sharfstein_sepoct03.msp

    http://backintyme.com/essays/item/34

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    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Prince Bandar, the enormously successful Saudi ambassador, was obviously part black -- he looked rather like Colin Powell, whom he was frequently photographed with -- but it didn't seem to come up much.
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  30. Berty says:

    Every time Brazil looks like it’s finally on the cusp of entering the 1st world it just slides right back into dysfunction again.

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  31. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    ROTFL

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  32. What to make of this guy (a contestant on the current season of The Ultimate Fighter show)?
    Name: Luis Pena
    Nickname: “Violent Bob Ross”
    From Little Rock, Arkansas
    White skin, Caucasoid features
    Talks like a regular white American (but no Southern accent)
    Kinky reddish-brown hair and beard
    Keeps an afro-pick in his kinky wool with a black-power-fist handle

    http://mmajunkie.com/2018/04/meet-the-ultimate-fighter-27-cast-luis-pena-violent-bob-ross

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  33. @AndrewR

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century
     
    .

    This defies credulity.

    This harks back to the bad old days of Apartheid in South Africa. There were quite specific guidelines for determining race classifications.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_Registration_Act,_1950

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil_test_(South_Africa)

    From the latter article:

    It remains an important part of South African cultural heritage and a symbol of racism.

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  34. @Lloyd1927
    The "one drop rule" is more of a negative ideal, like "liberty and justice for all" is a positive ideal. The truth is that, throughout American history, acceptance in the "white race" was based on a combination of phenotype AND social behavior (as opposed to absolute secrecy). It might be an open secret that certain families had a "touch of the tarbrush." If you suspected a fellow white of having some black ancestry, wouldn't you politely refrain from mentioning it? Most American whites would.

    Think of how we deal with the obvious Negroid genes in Latinos and Arabs. Americans are taught to politely refrain from mentioning their embarrassing relation to The Negro Race" in public. If there were a REAL one drop rule, nearly every Latino and Arab-American would be "black."

    https://www.yalelawjournal.org/essay/the-secret-history-of-race-in-the-united-states

    http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/September-October-2003/story_sharfstein_sepoct03.msp

    http://backintyme.com/essays/item/34

    Prince Bandar, the enormously successful Saudi ambassador, was obviously part black — he looked rather like Colin Powell, whom he was frequently photographed with — but it didn’t seem to come up much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    When Sudan and Darfur were in the news, articles would cast the conflict racially as "Arab" slavers (in the north) versus blacks (in the south). I Googled pictures of the Sudanese "Arabs" and they were just blacks wearing those desert do-rag thingies.

    One of those Caribbean sexpot singers (Beyonce?) was interviewed years ago and talked about how strange it was to move from her Caribbean island where she was called "white" to America where she was called "black".

    A Dominican raised in New York City was interviewed and talked about how he went from being "Hispanic" in NYC to "black" when he moved to Los Angeles.
    , @AnotherDad
    Hmm, I thought "James Earl Jones". Maybe it's just with the glasses.

    ~~~

    BTW, the interesting thing about Bandar, his mother was a slave.

    No, not some "oh the women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed like slaves" stuff, but an actual slave, as in owned by Bandar's grandfather and given to his son as a concubine. (Wikipedia says she was from Ethiopia.)

    It's disgusting how racist white people having gone around the world imposing their white-Christian ideas--like abolishing the slavery--on indigenous cultures around the world. Think of the young Arab royalty who won't get to knock up their 16 year old slave concubines, and all the Prince Bandar types the world will be deprived of as a result!
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  35. Big Bill says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Prince Bandar, the enormously successful Saudi ambassador, was obviously part black -- he looked rather like Colin Powell, whom he was frequently photographed with -- but it didn't seem to come up much.

    When Sudan and Darfur were in the news, articles would cast the conflict racially as “Arab” slavers (in the north) versus blacks (in the south). I Googled pictures of the Sudanese “Arabs” and they were just blacks wearing those desert do-rag thingies.

    One of those Caribbean sexpot singers (Beyonce?) was interviewed years ago and talked about how strange it was to move from her Caribbean island where she was called “white” to America where she was called “black”.

    A Dominican raised in New York City was interviewed and talked about how he went from being “Hispanic” in NYC to “black” when he moved to Los Angeles.

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  36. Pat Boyle says:
    @AndrewR

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century
     
    .

    This defies credulity.

    I was in high school in 1958. But it was a Catholic military high school in Washington DC. I rebelled. I wanted to meet girls at school. I told my mother I was afraid I would become a homosexual if I was only around boys.

    That was the winning argument.

    So I tried to enroll in Washington Lee – the public high school near our house in Arlington Virginia. But in those days you couldn’t just go to the school and sign up. First you had to pass the scrutiny of the racial board. So I showed up in person at this government office in an old house and presented myself to a panel of three middle aged white people – one a woman.

    I passed. I was white enough. I should think so. I’m so pale I get a sunburn indoors under a blanket. As I remember the whole thing only took a few minutes. No measurements. No paperwork.

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  37. OP says:

    The one drop rule was mostly about keeping women in line, because wombs were expensive, and thereby maintain a white majority. White men still got around, that’s how nearly every black person in the US is mixed. It was kept in place because race mixing was rare enough, so that those who were mixed had no other choice but to be black. You would see this in marriage, where a mulatto like Obama would marry a black woman despite having an obvious preference for white women. This was not just because of the one drop rule, but also as a way of cementing one’s identification with the trible.

    That’s starting to disappear. Most younger mixed race individuals don’t identify as black, but as mixed race. More are acting like Tiger Woods or Asthon Eaton, or the beautiful thug who got a modeling contract. They are dating and marrying whomever they want because they feel less obligation to identify as blacks.

    The Tiny Ducks of the world should beware, since blacks are the minority in the US (not just counting whites, but also Hispanics and Asians), so with enough race mixing, they will simply disappear outside of isolated areas in the South.

    Steve Sailor’s analysis is correct, but dated.

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    • Replies: @Corn
    “ Most younger mixed race individuals don’t identify as black, but as mixed race. ”

    I’ll admit I’m probably sheltered here on the farm but I’m not really seeing that
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  38. Pat Boyle says:

    Race ain’t what is was just last week. (before I started reading the Reich book). In the old days scientists looked at people and classified them based on what they saw, irrespective of whether it was live person or a old bone from a cave. Even in those antediluvian times we could see that races were changing around us. So it became common to speak of a time when the races were more pure than they are now from conquests, travel, and immigration.

    Others traced similar patterns in what they imagined were the lines of descent in languages.

    But we don’t just look at people anymore – we get them to spit into a tube. We can also get their DNA from the bones and teeth of people long dead (really, really long). Now we see that there are no pure races and never were. The human pot has been stirred constantly everywhere and always. We live in a snapshot of constant change.

    African-Americans are not Africans. Given enough time there might not be any more Africans from Africa and the new race will be made up of mulattos and quadroons from the Americas. I’m a white skinned blue eyed person of Irish descent. But light skin and blue eyes didn’t evolve together. My ancestors recently were darker and related to Sardinians. Later they were related to Ukrainians. That was a revelation but I shouldn’t have been surprised. No one ever thought that humans had evolved from chimpanzee-like apes in Ireland.

    White skin (of the European sort) is quite recent. I – like all other Europeans – come from darker skinned peoples. This truth doesn’t upset me. I figure it makes me eligible for reparations. Elizabeth Warren has shown us the way.

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    • Replies: @Anon

    My ancestors recently were darker and related to Sardinians. Later they were related to Ukrainians.
     
    This doesn't make any sense.
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  39. Unzerker says:
    @PaceLaw
    Interesting that the black-white continuum found in Brazil also exists in most of Spanish-speaking America. I was deployed to Puerto Rico for disaster relief last year. A local Puerto Rican guy I worked with put together a demographic map for the poor, disabled and elderly communities, but said that it would be impossible to do that for race. He said that very few people there identify as black (you pretty much have to be directly from Africa), even though it is readily apparent that there’s a decent amount of admixture there. I’m African American, but if I lived in Puerto Rico I could easily opt out of that category based upon my skin color and features.

    very few people there identify as black (you pretty much have to be directly from Africa), even though it is readily apparent that there’s a decent amount of admixture there.

    There are a lot of movies on youtube of Puerto Ricans who reveal their DNA test. Pretty much all of them have between 60-70% European DNA with the rest divided between Native American and African. Usually with the Native American part dominating.

    Personally, I wouldn’t call that black. But the USA has a pretty binary view of race.

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  40. I’m from brazil. it’s interessing how “afirmative action” took 35 years to, unfortunately, reach our shores but now any loony-left invention from the anglosphere comes almost immediately

    plenty of experts agree that 8% drop of white people between 2000 and 2010 dont have nothing to do with the changing of the demographics but the same people now recognizing themselves as black or mixed. they, obviously, didnt bring the influence of quotas in such “transformation”

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  41. @Steve Sailer
    Prince Bandar, the enormously successful Saudi ambassador, was obviously part black -- he looked rather like Colin Powell, whom he was frequently photographed with -- but it didn't seem to come up much.

    Hmm, I thought “James Earl Jones”. Maybe it’s just with the glasses.

    ~~~

    BTW, the interesting thing about Bandar, his mother was a slave.

    No, not some “oh the women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed like slaves” stuff, but an actual slave, as in owned by Bandar’s grandfather and given to his son as a concubine. (Wikipedia says she was from Ethiopia.)

    It’s disgusting how racist white people having gone around the world imposing their white-Christian ideas–like abolishing the slavery–on indigenous cultures around the world. Think of the young Arab royalty who won’t get to knock up their 16 year old slave concubines, and all the Prince Bandar types the world will be deprived of as a result!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    I remember reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X and wondering if Malcolm appreciated the irony of his going into the Muslim world to bitch about racist white America's oppression of black people--to arab muslims who had literally, within the prior few years, been forced to ban (officially) slavery at the urging and influence of white christian nations. P.S. It's always a good time to point out the stupidity of Muhammad Ali who changed his name from that of an abolitionist to that of a slave owner as a protest against slavery.
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  42. @AndrewR

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century
     
    .

    This defies credulity.

    This defies credulity.

    Not at all.

    It’s actually the entirely predictably result of combining diversity and democracy. The result is, of course, contention among the “diverse” “population groups” over public goods.

    We’ve got all our affirmative action whining here. Then you have Asians whining that they aren’t getting enough elite college representation at only 5x population share. In India you have reservation riots and have various caste groups, trying to get themselves classified as “backward” in order to get more goodies for their members.

    This is all inevitable if you are saddled with diversity. Avoidable only if you can maintain yourself as a real, one-people, nation.

    Diversity is our strength!

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    • Replies: @Singh
    You old cuck, it's more to do with democracy।।
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  43. Corvinus says:
    @attilathehen
    This guy has Caucasian features but since he's Brazilian his dark skin would come from black ancestry.
    In Latin countries with large Indian populations, dark skin would come from the Indian side. Besides a DNA test, you need to look at his family. The actor Matthew McConaughey married a light-skinned black Brazilian woman.

    “OK RCC cuck.”

    No, it’s all in the Bible. Word for word. A strict interpretation of the Good Book.

    Corinthians 13:4-7–Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    John 3:20–For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    You made the statement. “Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.” It is clear that God values all human beings, based on just those two passages alone.

    Why do you insist on bastardizing the faith?

    Read More
    • Replies: @attilathehen
    You copied this comment from another article. You cannot come up with new comments for new articles.
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  44. Corvinus says:

    Is that Roosh’s mug? Is he helping out with iSteve’s panhandling here by asking for a handout?

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    • LOL: AndrewR
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  45. @AnotherDad
    Hmm, I thought "James Earl Jones". Maybe it's just with the glasses.

    ~~~

    BTW, the interesting thing about Bandar, his mother was a slave.

    No, not some "oh the women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed like slaves" stuff, but an actual slave, as in owned by Bandar's grandfather and given to his son as a concubine. (Wikipedia says she was from Ethiopia.)

    It's disgusting how racist white people having gone around the world imposing their white-Christian ideas--like abolishing the slavery--on indigenous cultures around the world. Think of the young Arab royalty who won't get to knock up their 16 year old slave concubines, and all the Prince Bandar types the world will be deprived of as a result!

    I remember reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X and wondering if Malcolm appreciated the irony of his going into the Muslim world to bitch about racist white America’s oppression of black people–to arab muslims who had literally, within the prior few years, been forced to ban (officially) slavery at the urging and influence of white christian nations. P.S. It’s always a good time to point out the stupidity of Muhammad Ali who changed his name from that of an abolitionist to that of a slave owner as a protest against slavery.

    Read More
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  46. Andy says:

    If the key to a cushy government job in Brazil is going to be how dark your skin is, I see a huge increase in the demand for tanning beds there

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    There has already been an increase in people declaring themselves "black" to the Census...
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  47. Anon[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pat Boyle
    Race ain't what is was just last week. (before I started reading the Reich book). In the old days scientists looked at people and classified them based on what they saw, irrespective of whether it was live person or a old bone from a cave. Even in those antediluvian times we could see that races were changing around us. So it became common to speak of a time when the races were more pure than they are now from conquests, travel, and immigration.

    Others traced similar patterns in what they imagined were the lines of descent in languages.

    But we don't just look at people anymore - we get them to spit into a tube. We can also get their DNA from the bones and teeth of people long dead (really, really long). Now we see that there are no pure races and never were. The human pot has been stirred constantly everywhere and always. We live in a snapshot of constant change.

    African-Americans are not Africans. Given enough time there might not be any more Africans from Africa and the new race will be made up of mulattos and quadroons from the Americas. I'm a white skinned blue eyed person of Irish descent. But light skin and blue eyes didn't evolve together. My ancestors recently were darker and related to Sardinians. Later they were related to Ukrainians. That was a revelation but I shouldn't have been surprised. No one ever thought that humans had evolved from chimpanzee-like apes in Ireland.

    White skin (of the European sort) is quite recent. I - like all other Europeans - come from darker skinned peoples. This truth doesn't upset me. I figure it makes me eligible for reparations. Elizabeth Warren has shown us the way.

    My ancestors recently were darker and related to Sardinians. Later they were related to Ukrainians.

    This doesn’t make any sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    I'm sorry if you are having difficulty with this concept but this is the current mainstream anthropological thinking. This is not my research. I don't do anthropological research. I just read books.
    , @Johann Ricke

    This doesn’t make any sense.
     
    Over tens of thousands of years, people move. They conquer neighboring tribes or are conquered by neighboring tribes. In some cases, they just merge without any violence. But generally, violence is involved, because there are only so many spots at the top. And the people at the top - they don't risk their lives fighting wars just for fun. They want more stuff. That means knocking off rival leaders and taking their stuff.

    At the same time, genetic diversity is important to avoid the downsides of inbreeding. So in many cases, a tribe would go to war to get women from the next tribe over. Think Rape of the Sabines, carried out any number of times, long before Etruscan civilization evolved, perhaps even before the Stone Age.

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  48. @Corvinus
    “OK RCC cuck.”

    No, it’s all in the Bible. Word for word. A strict interpretation of the Good Book.

    Corinthians 13:4-7–Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    John 3:20–For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    You made the statement. “Derb’s Chinese tiger mama did not produce anything of value.” It is clear that God values all human beings, based on just those two passages alone.

    Why do you insist on bastardizing the faith?

    You copied this comment from another article. You cannot come up with new comments for new articles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Indeed, since you ran away from responding to an important issue.
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  49. @PaceLaw
    Interesting that the black-white continuum found in Brazil also exists in most of Spanish-speaking America. I was deployed to Puerto Rico for disaster relief last year. A local Puerto Rican guy I worked with put together a demographic map for the poor, disabled and elderly communities, but said that it would be impossible to do that for race. He said that very few people there identify as black (you pretty much have to be directly from Africa), even though it is readily apparent that there’s a decent amount of admixture there. I’m African American, but if I lived in Puerto Rico I could easily opt out of that category based upon my skin color and features.

    It existed in French-speaking America too. There are remnants of Creoles around here, and those who didn’t get absorbed into the black community (most did, and I guess a few passed as white too) declared themselves to be Indians. Most of them look like the picture of this Brazilian guy. I’d guess they are like 25-30 % African, they mostly marry each other.

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  50. Corvinus says:
    @Redneck farmer
    So the embarrassing ancestors of today's Brazilians knew how to divide people up? Tell me again how bad our racial problem is in this country?

    “So the embarrassing ancestors of today’s Brazilians knew how to divide people up? Tell me again how bad our racial problem is in this country?”

    Today’s racial hierarchy in Brazil is the direct result of Portuguese importation. That is, the structures were put in place during colonial times and remain to this day.

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  51. Corvinus says:
    @attilathehen
    You copied this comment from another article. You cannot come up with new comments for new articles.

    Indeed, since you ran away from responding to an important issue.

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  52. This absurdity will get really interesting/disturbing when the U.S. starts adding additional categories deserving affirmative action set-asides and handouts: homosexual, trannie, moslem, etc.

    “I see here you’re claiming to be homosexual. Prove it by fellating that guy over there”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Getting officially declared to be a Person of Homelessness will be a big thing in California in the future.
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  53. Marcus D. says:

    Lucas looks like a stereotypical middle class carioca.

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  54. BB753 says:

    The guy in the picture looks more mestizo than quadroon or octoroon to me. He’s got probably far more Indian than African ancestors. And plenty of Portuguese ancestry. A DNA test would probably turn out something like 55 % West Asian (Caucasian) 35 % Amerindian 10% African. I guess Brazilian authorities can’t afford DNA tests!

    Read More
    • Replies: @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Mostly the authorities don't mind wasting the people's money, but in this case they explicitly wanted Affirmative Action to be not about ancestry, but about physical looks.
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  55. @William Badwhite
    This absurdity will get really interesting/disturbing when the U.S. starts adding additional categories deserving affirmative action set-asides and handouts: homosexual, trannie, moslem, etc.

    "I see here you're claiming to be homosexual. Prove it by fellating that guy over there".

    Getting officially declared to be a Person of Homelessness will be a big thing in California in the future.

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    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    I can see the test now: "You reek of urine, check. Stolen grocery cart full of filthy stuff, check. Our observers have seen you wandering in intersections, spouting gibberish, check".
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  56. TG says:

    Let the rich and powerful steal the whole loaf, set the proles to squabbling with each other over the crumbs.

    And no, you don’t have to be a communist to acknowledge that, indeed, the rich and powerful can be as selfish as anyone, and, being rich and powerful, are often more effective at manipulating the system to their benefit than the rest of us are. Certainly Adam Smith found such an idea to be common sense.

    Divide and conquer. Old Story.

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  57. Read More
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  58. @Steve Sailer
    Getting officially declared to be a Person of Homelessness will be a big thing in California in the future.

    I can see the test now: “You reek of urine, check. Stolen grocery cart full of filthy stuff, check. Our observers have seen you wandering in intersections, spouting gibberish, check”.

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  59. Corn says:
    @OP
    The one drop rule was mostly about keeping women in line, because wombs were expensive, and thereby maintain a white majority. White men still got around, that's how nearly every black person in the US is mixed. It was kept in place because race mixing was rare enough, so that those who were mixed had no other choice but to be black. You would see this in marriage, where a mulatto like Obama would marry a black woman despite having an obvious preference for white women. This was not just because of the one drop rule, but also as a way of cementing one's identification with the trible.

    That's starting to disappear. Most younger mixed race individuals don't identify as black, but as mixed race. More are acting like Tiger Woods or Asthon Eaton, or the beautiful thug who got a modeling contract. They are dating and marrying whomever they want because they feel less obligation to identify as blacks.

    The Tiny Ducks of the world should beware, since blacks are the minority in the US (not just counting whites, but also Hispanics and Asians), so with enough race mixing, they will simply disappear outside of isolated areas in the South.

    Steve Sailor's analysis is correct, but dated.

    “ Most younger mixed race individuals don’t identify as black, but as mixed race. ”

    I’ll admit I’m probably sheltered here on the farm but I’m not really seeing that

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  60. According to a reporter, only three students were accepted into all eight Ivy League colleges this year:

    Anna Rezk (SAT 1570) is the daughter of Coptic (Christian) Egyptian immigrants (father deceased). Some are suggesting/complaining that she marked “African-American” on her applications. Her twin brother got into Princeton. They attend a selective public high school magnet program. Anna will decide between Princeton and Brown’s BA/MD program.

    http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2018/04/tech_hs_school_senior_accepted_to_all_8_ivy_league.html

    Mekhi Johnson (National Merit Commended) has attended a private boy’s school since first grade and was raised by a single mother. He hopes to study political science and attend law school.

    Samantha Sullivan (SAT 99th percentile) is the bi-racial daughter of a British father and black mother who graduated from Harvard and Harvard Law School. Samantha hopes to became an astronaut. She attends a selective public school.

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  61. @AndrewR

    A few weeks ago, these race tribunals were made mandatory for all government jobs. In one state, they even issued guidelines about how to measure lip size, hair texture and nose width, something that for some has uncomfortable echoes of racist philosophies in the 19th century
     
    .

    This defies credulity.

    It’s not 100% like this. Not everyone has to tell their race and submit to this weird racial screening, only the people who claim to be black to get Affirmative Action.

    Due to the Affirmative Action law of 2014, all government jobs that are filled by public selection (which are most of them) have to reserve 20% of the positions to blacks. Candidates that want to fill the reserved positions have to declare their intention to do so upon subscription for the public selection (which is a written evaluation). Given that there was a lot of low level fraud (guy is tanned, says he’s black), they instituted these comissions to decide if the candidate claiming blackness is black enough – yes, using the guidelines stated.

    It’s quite absurd, anyway. But then, it was predicted as soon as Affirmative Action started that we would end doing this.

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    • Replies: @baked georgia
    yes, at least we don't have, yet, the "hollistic" selection for 100% of the students and public sector workers.

    in southern states, the percentage of those in such quotas is larger than the share of their population.

    to add insanity, in federal universities some of them have quotas for "students from public schools" that dont required anything else (being black and/or low income), so I know people from very wealthy backgrounds that are accepted due to such quotas. they studied in our equivalent of selective high schools, far from the stereotypical "Public school".

    I'm pretty sure some asians that lean on mysterymeat look will choose "pardo" in their census status
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  62. @Mike Perry
    I recall a documentary on Brazilian affirmative action that showed two identical twins go before different panels. One was determined to be white, the other black.

    That documentary said there's a joke in Brazil about this process that says they should just turn it over to the police because they don't seem to have any trouble figuring out who is black and who isn't.

    The joke gets more funny when you know that most of the Police Force in Brazil is black.

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  63. @attilathehen
    This guy has Caucasian features but since he's Brazilian his dark skin would come from black ancestry.
    In Latin countries with large Indian populations, dark skin would come from the Indian side. Besides a DNA test, you need to look at his family. The actor Matthew McConaughey married a light-skinned black Brazilian woman.

    If you want to know lineage, DNA tests are needed ; but Affirmative Action in Brazil is definitely not about ancestry, but about phenotype. It’s even written on the relevant legislation. A guy who is 25% African but doesn’t look much so (believe me, it happens) cannot use Affirmative Action, while a guy who is 10% African but has more black features (also can happen) is entitled to it.

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  64. @Andy
    If the key to a cushy government job in Brazil is going to be how dark your skin is, I see a huge increase in the demand for tanning beds there

    There has already been an increase in people declaring themselves “black” to the Census…

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  65. @BB753
    The guy in the picture looks more mestizo than quadroon or octoroon to me. He's got probably far more Indian than African ancestors. And plenty of Portuguese ancestry. A DNA test would probably turn out something like 55 % West Asian (Caucasian) 35 % Amerindian 10% African. I guess Brazilian authorities can't afford DNA tests!

    Mostly the authorities don’t mind wasting the people’s money, but in this case they explicitly wanted Affirmative Action to be not about ancestry, but about physical looks.

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    It's sheer madness!
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  66. NickG says:

    about how to measure lip size, hair texture

    Redolent of the Apartheid era ‘pencil test’ here in Sith Ifrika, whereby when there was doubt as to a subject’s racial provenance, the policeman or official would stick a pencil in the hair of the subject being appraised and if it stayed put, they were deemed non-white.

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  67. Pat Boyle says:
    @Anon

    My ancestors recently were darker and related to Sardinians. Later they were related to Ukrainians.
     
    This doesn't make any sense.

    I’m sorry if you are having difficulty with this concept but this is the current mainstream anthropological thinking. This is not my research. I don’t do anthropological research. I just read books.

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  68. @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    It's not 100% like this. Not everyone has to tell their race and submit to this weird racial screening, only the people who claim to be black to get Affirmative Action.

    Due to the Affirmative Action law of 2014, all government jobs that are filled by public selection (which are most of them) have to reserve 20% of the positions to blacks. Candidates that want to fill the reserved positions have to declare their intention to do so upon subscription for the public selection (which is a written evaluation). Given that there was a lot of low level fraud (guy is tanned, says he's black), they instituted these comissions to decide if the candidate claiming blackness is black enough - yes, using the guidelines stated.

    It's quite absurd, anyway. But then, it was predicted as soon as Affirmative Action started that we would end doing this.

    yes, at least we don’t have, yet, the “hollistic” selection for 100% of the students and public sector workers.

    in southern states, the percentage of those in such quotas is larger than the share of their population.

    to add insanity, in federal universities some of them have quotas for “students from public schools” that dont required anything else (being black and/or low income), so I know people from very wealthy backgrounds that are accepted due to such quotas. they studied in our equivalent of selective high schools, far from the stereotypical “Public school”.

    I’m pretty sure some asians that lean on mysterymeat look will choose “pardo” in their census status

    Read More
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  69. BB753 says:
    @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Mostly the authorities don't mind wasting the people's money, but in this case they explicitly wanted Affirmative Action to be not about ancestry, but about physical looks.

    It’s sheer madness!

    Read More
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  70. Singh says:
    @AnotherDad

    This defies credulity.
     
    Not at all.

    It's actually the entirely predictably result of combining diversity and democracy. The result is, of course, contention among the "diverse" "population groups" over public goods.

    We've got all our affirmative action whining here. Then you have Asians whining that they aren't getting enough elite college representation at only 5x population share. In India you have reservation riots and have various caste groups, trying to get themselves classified as "backward" in order to get more goodies for their members.

    This is all inevitable if you are saddled with diversity. Avoidable only if you can maintain yourself as a real, one-people, nation.

    Diversity is our strength!

    You old cuck, it’s more to do with democracy।।

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  71. @Anon

    My ancestors recently were darker and related to Sardinians. Later they were related to Ukrainians.
     
    This doesn't make any sense.

    This doesn’t make any sense.

    Over tens of thousands of years, people move. They conquer neighboring tribes or are conquered by neighboring tribes. In some cases, they just merge without any violence. But generally, violence is involved, because there are only so many spots at the top. And the people at the top – they don’t risk their lives fighting wars just for fun. They want more stuff. That means knocking off rival leaders and taking their stuff.

    At the same time, genetic diversity is important to avoid the downsides of inbreeding. So in many cases, a tribe would go to war to get women from the next tribe over. Think Rape of the Sabines, carried out any number of times, long before Etruscan civilization evolved, perhaps even before the Stone Age.

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