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ACT Score Gaps: "We Didn't Know It Was This Bad"
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From the Washington Post:

‘We didn’t know it was this bad’: New ACT scores show huge achievement gaps

By Nick Anderson September 7 at 3:00 AM

New results from the nation’s most widely used college admission test highlight in detailed fashion the persistent achievement gaps between students who face disadvantages and those who don’t.

Scores from the ACT show that just 9 percent of students in the class of 2017 who came from low-income families, whose parents did not go to college, and who identify as black, Hispanic, American Indian or Pacific Islander are strongly ready for college.

But the readiness rate for students with none of those demographic characteristics was six times as high, 54 percent, according to data released Thursday.

“That kind of shocked us,” ACT chief executive Marten Roorda said. “We knew it was bad, but we didn’t know it was this bad.”

The analysis of “underserved learners” was a first for the ACT, which is one of two major tests students can take to apply to college. The other is the College Board’s SAT.

In recent years, both tests have found major disparities in college readiness among students in the Washington region and around the country. Roorda lamented that these gaps have persisted despite efforts to improve schools under the banners of No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top and other national initiatives.

“You could argue that those investments should have made a clearer difference,” he said, “and that’s not what we’re seeing.”

You can read the ACT report (pdf) here.

Screenshot 2017-09-07 16.40.37

 
    []
  1. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,

    And except for those living under a rock should anyone be surprised by these results!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    I think you're wrong. On those rare occasions when I have mention IQs by race to someone, they have usually been surprised. If you watch TV you see in every commercial a smart black guy and a dumb white guy. Images make impressions.
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  2. Barnard says:

    It is almost as if all the billions they are spending, along removing discipline standards in the name of ending the “school to prison pipeline” will never be successful at changing these results.

    Who could have known that students who don’t value education and don’t have a natural aptitude college level work are not likely to score well on a test designed for college admissions?

    Read More
  3. Got to be all about evil white privilege oppressing these young rocket scientists; it is the very ringer in the bell curve. Hello? Hello? Anybody listening? Anybody out there?… Where did you all go? Please say something! (*choke*) …please come back… please…

    Read More
  4. 9 percent of Blacks et al are ready for college? OK,let that 9 percent go to college!

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    It is actually worse than that. Table 3.3 in the National Profile Report breaks down ACT college readiness benchmarks by subtest and race. 6% of blacks, 8% of American Indians, 14% of Hispanics, 35% of whites, and 48% of Asians meet all four benchmarks (27% of all students overall).
    , @Ed
    I wonder if DuBois had hard data at the time when he came up with "the talented tenth"?
    , @Colleen Pater
    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?
    , @Jim
    Assuming an average IQ of 85 and a standard deviation of 15 an IQ of 110 would be about the 95th percentile of US blacks and an IQ of 105 would be about the 90th percentile. Probably college makes sense mostly for individuals with IQ's of 110 and above. About half of the 9% of college ready blacks probably are 110 and above in IQ and will benefit from a college education. About half of the "college-ready" blacks probably have IQ's in the 105-110 range and are somewhat marginal for a college education although they might well benefit from a community or junior college.
  5. Hubbub says:

    The Educators can try as they will, but these special programs like No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top, and, now, Common Core will not make one iota of difference in students’ aptitudes or intelligence – try as they might, with all sincerity. These students can not be made into something they are not capable of becoming. It’s that simple. We’ve spent 3 or 4 trillion dollars in the past 5 decades to only reap the same harvest, year after year after year. To continue to do as we’ve done is insanity on steroids. Educators know this, but are wont not to say the truth (troof) about the abysmal attempts to perpetrate fraud upon the nation’s parents and children. You can’t make something more than it’s possible to be.

    Some people and groups are second- and third- class individuals when it comes to intelligence. Accept the fact and then do what can be done to salvage something from a losing cause.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    It "kind of shocks me" that I cannot sing as well as David Coverdale and Amy Lee or do preposterous things with a guitar the way Steve Vai can. I am clearly an "underserved" musician.

    No one pisses and moans and shovels buckets of money and shame at the equally clear fact that most people are also second and third class musicians, athletes, dancers, and so on, or that much of the differences in ability in these endeavors tracks identifiable genetic groups at statistically valid levels. Whither the outrage?

    Why no handwringing about runners from eastern Africa, and a programme dedicated to stamping out The Gap suffered by Hindoos aspiring to compete meaningfully in marathons?

    Comparing what goes on vis-a-vis intelligence with similar phenomena in literally any endeavor or trait you may mention makes clear the whole business is horseshit.

    , @dr kill
    My Grandfather used to say, - Never underestimate what a man will do to keep a good-paying job. Never more true than the education racket. Sad.
  6. MNL says:

    Steve, may I suggest an alternative headline for this post: “ACT board’s perception gap: we didn’t know the board was this naive.”

    Read More
  7. Olorin says:

    Roorda lamented that these gaps have persisted despite efforts to improve schools under the banners of No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top and other national initiatives.

    “You could argue that those investments should have made a clearer difference,” he said, “and that’s not what we’re seeing.”

    Again with the pesky facts!!!

    Won’t someone PLEASE THINK OF THE CAREERS OF THE DOLT WRANGLERS!

    More programs should fix this for good and for ever!

    Read More
  8. dearieme says:

    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept “strongly ready for college” is misleading.

    Read More
    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @AndrewR
    The claim is true if we define "college" as... well... an American college in the current year.
    , @guest
    The concept of "strongly ready" doesn't exist. At least not in my English.
    , @Kaz
    Sounds about right to me.

    College is a waste of time and money for most people. It's not supposed to be like 'high school', a meaningless benchmark anyone with half a brain could get through.
    , @Neil Templeton
    Climate change has fragged and distorted all information. Signals are received in a meteor shower of noise, and must be interpreted using a cultural translator that is updated daily. This is only a test, or perhaps a means for isolating the incredulous.
    , @AnotherDad

    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept “strongly ready for college” is misleading.
     
    That's not what it says. It says 54% of those who have none of the negative factors--ie. not NAM, not low income and not first generation (i.e. without college educated parents). So basically it is saying that it is 54% ready for white and Asian middle class kids with college educated parents. I agree that probably even then their bar is bit flabby about these folks really being "college material", but it's not ridiculous.
  9. New results from the nation’s most widely used college admission test highlight in detailed fashion the persistent achievement gaps between students who face disadvantages and those who don’t.

    LOL. It’s all about the “disadvantages.” We just have to try harder to eliminate those darned disadvantages!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    (Evolutionary) disadvantages. WaPo is sounding pretty redpilled here.

    http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.com/2017/02/progressives-new-race-realists.html?m=1
    , @Mr. Rational
    The easiest one to eliminate is the one they're saddled with 8 months and 29 days before birth.  IUDs, Depo-Provera and tubal ligation are highly effective.
  10. pyrrhus says:

    Einstein’s definition of crazy–doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results….US leaders, and much of the population, have been clueless for at least 100 years, and no signs of anything changing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    They get the results they want: money and power over our children, our minds, and our lives. Doing a worse job actually gets them more power and money. It can't fail!

    Unless enough people Notice. ACT chiefs Noticing is something, I guess.
  11. res says:

    Thanks for the link to The Condition of College & Career Readiness (CCCR) 2017 page! The report by that name is 20 pages long, but it seemed a bit weak to me. I wish they had provided crosstabs for the individual components of “underserved learner.” I suspect those would provide hatefacts though so not surprising to not see that information.

    The National Profile Report (available at the same link) is 36 pages long and has more detailed data (but not using the “underserved learner” metric). Table 1.5 gives five years of scores and numbers taking the test by race. Table 2.3 gives subtest scores for 2017 by race. Table 3.7 was interesting–it showed average scores by subject area course pattern. Figure 4.1 (also Table 4.2) shows average ACT composite scores by race and educational aspiration (5 categories, vo-tech – professional degree). Table 4.1 gives number of students and average scores by planned major.

    This Kentucky specific page has graphics showing their black-white gaps for the last five years: http://www.bipps.org/act-scores-kentuckys-white-minus-black-achievement-gaps-continue-problem/
    Individual state Profile Reports are available at the bottom of Steve’s link.

    Read More
  12. Tiny Duck says:

    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to “public” schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980′s. The wealthy “whites” can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    >affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.


    True, very true. It will create continuous poverty for all but the top 0.1%. No more cycle!
    , @PG County Ex-Pat
    Tiny Duck is daft (Daffy Duck?)

    I'm a native of Prince George's County, Maryland. It has the most "affluent" black population in the country. The county is majority black, yet the county's schools are abysmal. https://www.greatschools.org/maryland/temple-hills/1076-Crossland-High-School/

    I'm very familiar with Crossland High as my cousins graduated Crossland. It was one of the best public high schools in the whole D.C. area in the mid-70s. Yet it's rating is now bottom of the basement. Could it be the fact that the school had a lily white student body in 1975, yet today has almost no white students?
    , @dr kill
    I actually agree with the main point of your rant, I think, which is that until there are enough colored folks in higher positions through the work force to favor their own colored folks. Affirmative Action is the least objectionable choice. My granddad used to say, your people can get you your first job, but not your second job.

    Anyone who thinks a meritocracy exists in the USSA hasn't been paying attention. Especially in college admissions, grad schools in particular.

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.
    , @Big Bill
    Oddly enough, children of poverty-stricken refugee Asians and poverty-stricken whites do better on the SAT than children of upper middle class and upper class blacks. I wish poverty and oppression could explain the difference, but it can't.
    , @phil
    Blacks from families earning $100,000-$200,000 per year are outscored on the SAT (on average) by whites and Asians from families below the poverty line.

    It has long been understood by intelligence researchers that blacks have cognitive deficiencies independently of socioeconomic status.

    , @Gene Su

    [The world is not a meritocracy.]
     
    And life isn't fair. There will always be those with more advantages than others. From my experiences, we all have advantages in one area or another.


    [The vast majority of Children of Color go to “public” schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980′s. The wealthy “whites” can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.]
     
    This is why we should get rid of public schools. Read John Taylor Gatto. Public schools were never meant to educate the poor and illiterate or create a "level playing field." They were meant to turn children into the mental and moral equivalent of manageable barn animals and to organize society according to the whims of our elite overlords.

    I would support any law that does away with compulsory attendance laws. I would also support any system that allows poor parents to send their children to any school of their choice (vouchers, charters).
    , @Mark P Miller
    Kansas City schools spent ~$2B (that's billion) over 20 years to prove that black academic underachievement was only a resource issue.

    I suppose you have never heard of it. That, too, is by design.
  13. res says:
    @Father O'Hara
    9 percent of Blacks et al are ready for college? OK,let that 9 percent go to college!

    It is actually worse than that. Table 3.3 in the National Profile Report breaks down ACT college readiness benchmarks by subtest and race. 6% of blacks, 8% of American Indians, 14% of Hispanics, 35% of whites, and 48% of Asians meet all four benchmarks (27% of all students overall).

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    I'd be curious as to how "Asian" Americans (I'm assuming this includes South Asians, too) break down by ethnicity. Not everyone is the same: Khmer Americans tend to be pretty heavily working class, for example.
    , @Mr. Rational
    If 35% of Whites qualify, the bar is set very low.  If it was set at something reasonable like 1 STDV above the mean, it would be less than half that.
    , @candid_observer
    If you do the standardized SD equivalents of 35% and 6%, -.385 sd is the cutoff for whites, and -1.55 is the cutoff for blacks, which is a gap of 1.165 SD.

    Which is not exactly what you'd call closing.

    All educational reform is nothing but talk until it reaches time to enter college. That's when and where it matters.

    And not a damn thing has changed in, what, maybe 40 or 50 years?

  14. Jack D says:

    You could argue that those investments should have made a clearer difference,” he said

    Even the guy saying this doesn’t actually believe what he is spouting. Notice the weasel wording. “You can argue that”. You can argue that the moon is made of green cheese and that all humans are well intentioned, but….”that’s not what we are seeing”.

    How many billions or trillions will the various governments (state, Federal and local) flush down the toilet attempting to educate the uneducable?

    In Europe, where (until recently at least) they didn’t have to deal with racial issues, they split off the non-college track kids early and try to teach them useful trades instead, rather than producing millions of phony “liberal arts” grads with no marketable skills.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack Hanson
    Asking "education advocates" how much money they need is akin to asking an illegal alien advocate how many immigrants the US needs.

    There is no ceiling. The beast will never be sated.

  15. Spud Boy says:

    Underserved Learners?

    Wow, it’s hard to keep track of all these new terms.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "Learners" is overgenerous. How about Underserved Non-learners?

    Better yet, Non-Served Kids Who Occupy Desks for a Certain Period of Time Annually.

    , @Neuday

    Underserved Learners?
     
    It's not like they want more learning but nobody will serve them; it's that they're already full and can't learn another bite.
  16. William says:

    Stephen is 100% correct. No one should be surprised by these results. It has been common knowledge for over 50 years. I taught univ level English courses for thirty years, and I saw first hand the disasterous, losing fight, to correct social problems of many years standing simply by allowing anyone, regardless of qualifications, to be accepted to colleges and universities. This resulted in the creation of crash programs to bring illiterates up to speed, so-called special studies courses to make up in one quarter twelve years of a discriminatory school system, and lowered drastically standards in American schools and colleges.
    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college, but unlike “politically correct” or merely foolish advocates of open admissions, I do not believe that unqualified students should be accepted. Period.

    Read More
    • Replies: @lavoisier
    And that makes you a racist.

    Being Black or Hispanic makes you qualified for anything regardless of the white man's racist measures of competency.

    , @Roderick Spode

    I am a liberal
     
    Are you sure about that, bro?
    , @Yak-15
    Discriminatory? Chicago pubic schools spend twice per student compared to some of the city's exurbs and achieve substantially poorer test scores. How do we overcome a problem, likely genetic in origin, that money cannot solve amongst a population that refuses to change it cultural habits?
    , @Mr. Anon

    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college
     
    I think they should only go to college if there is some reason for them to do so, not just because they are able. A smart kid who gets a scholarship to college and then spends four years getting a degree in environmental studies, queer studies, or some kind of poz-laden humanities or 'social-science' degree is wasting resources every bit as much as a student who is simply not bright enough to go to college.
  17. @Hubbub
    The Educators can try as they will, but these special programs like No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top, and, now, Common Core will not make one iota of difference in students' aptitudes or intelligence - try as they might, with all sincerity. These students can not be made into something they are not capable of becoming. It's that simple. We've spent 3 or 4 trillion dollars in the past 5 decades to only reap the same harvest, year after year after year. To continue to do as we've done is insanity on steroids. Educators know this, but are wont not to say the truth (troof) about the abysmal attempts to perpetrate fraud upon the nation's parents and children. You can't make something more than it's possible to be.

    Some people and groups are second- and third- class individuals when it comes to intelligence. Accept the fact and then do what can be done to salvage something from a losing cause.

    It “kind of shocks me” that I cannot sing as well as David Coverdale and Amy Lee or do preposterous things with a guitar the way Steve Vai can. I am clearly an “underserved” musician.

    No one pisses and moans and shovels buckets of money and shame at the equally clear fact that most people are also second and third class musicians, athletes, dancers, and so on, or that much of the differences in ability in these endeavors tracks identifiable genetic groups at statistically valid levels. Whither the outrage?

    Why no handwringing about runners from eastern Africa, and a programme dedicated to stamping out The Gap suffered by Hindoos aspiring to compete meaningfully in marathons?

    Comparing what goes on vis-a-vis intelligence with similar phenomena in literally any endeavor or trait you may mention makes clear the whole business is horseshit.

    Read More
  18. I knew it was this bad, as do most commenters here, as do most people with powers of observation. But I’m of course a racist and bigot and lots of other bad names!

    Read More
  19. poolside says:

    Steve, on a somewhat related note, have you watched any of the Netflix docu-series “Last Chance U?” It is a veritable cornucopia of iSteve-ness — college, athletes, education struggles, racial stuff, etc.

    I’m somewhat surprised it was made — or allowed to be shown — since it depicts so many special interests in such a bad light.

    https://www.netflix.com/title/80091742

    Read More
    • Agree: slumber_j
    • Replies: @guest
    Just going by the name, I'd hate to be an attractive female attending Last Chance U.

    Unless I were a slutty 50 Shades type.
  20. lavoisier says: • Website
    @William
    Stephen is 100% correct. No one should be surprised by these results. It has been common knowledge for over 50 years. I taught univ level English courses for thirty years, and I saw first hand the disasterous, losing fight, to correct social problems of many years standing simply by allowing anyone, regardless of qualifications, to be accepted to colleges and universities. This resulted in the creation of crash programs to bring illiterates up to speed, so-called special studies courses to make up in one quarter twelve years of a discriminatory school system, and lowered drastically standards in American schools and colleges.
    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college, but unlike "politically correct" or merely foolish advocates of open admissions, I do not believe that unqualified students should be accepted. Period.

    And that makes you a racist.

    Being Black or Hispanic makes you qualified for anything regardless of the white man’s racist measures of competency.

    Read More
  21. Ed says:
    @Father O'Hara
    9 percent of Blacks et al are ready for college? OK,let that 9 percent go to college!

    I wonder if DuBois had hard data at the time when he came up with “the talented tenth”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Brutusale
    Of course he had hard data. It's called life among his racial brethren.
  22. @Clark Westwood

    New results from the nation’s most widely used college admission test highlight in detailed fashion the persistent achievement gaps between students who face disadvantages and those who don’t.
     
    LOL. It's all about the "disadvantages." We just have to try harder to eliminate those darned disadvantages!

    (Evolutionary) disadvantages. WaPo is sounding pretty redpilled here.

    http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.com/2017/02/progressives-new-race-realists.html?m=1

    Read More
  23. Dr. X says:

    Scores from the ACT show that just 9 percent of students in the class of 2017 who came from low-income families, whose parents did not go to college, and who identify as black, Hispanic, American Indian or Pacific Islander are strongly ready for college…

    “That kind of shocked us,” ACT chief executive Marten Roorda said. “We knew it was bad, but we didn’t know it was this bad.”

    Well, what else did he expect? For the past fifty years the public schools refused to teach these kids the white man’s racist language, make them read racist white literature, or learn racist white mathematics.

    How in hell are they going to score well on the white man’s racist ACT?

    One thing they surely learned quite well, though… how to hate white people. That’s probably enough to get them full scholarships right through med school and law school right there.

    Read More
  24. @Jack D

    You could argue that those investments should have made a clearer difference,” he said
     
    Even the guy saying this doesn't actually believe what he is spouting. Notice the weasel wording. "You can argue that". You can argue that the moon is made of green cheese and that all humans are well intentioned, but...."that's not what we are seeing".

    How many billions or trillions will the various governments (state, Federal and local) flush down the toilet attempting to educate the uneducable?

    In Europe, where (until recently at least) they didn't have to deal with racial issues, they split off the non-college track kids early and try to teach them useful trades instead, rather than producing millions of phony "liberal arts" grads with no marketable skills.

    Asking “education advocates” how much money they need is akin to asking an illegal alien advocate how many immigrants the US needs.

    There is no ceiling. The beast will never be sated.

    Read More
  25. I can’t be the only one who likes to misread “underserved” as “undeserved” — truly no educator does deserve this situation.

    See also “hysterically black” for “historically black” per some other commenter on here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    truly no educator does deserve this situation
     
    No I'd say most of us deserve exactly this situation, good and hard.
  26. It’s been 48 years since Harvard Educational Review published Arthur Jensen’s “How Much Can We Boost IQ and Scholastic Achievement?” Do we have an answer yet?

    Also, these are the first two citations on the Wikipedia page for the Jensen article:

    1. Jensen (1969)
    2. Richard E. Nisbett (9 December 2007). “All Brains Are the Same Color”. The New York Times. Retrieved 25 December 2011.

    Read More
  27. @William
    Stephen is 100% correct. No one should be surprised by these results. It has been common knowledge for over 50 years. I taught univ level English courses for thirty years, and I saw first hand the disasterous, losing fight, to correct social problems of many years standing simply by allowing anyone, regardless of qualifications, to be accepted to colleges and universities. This resulted in the creation of crash programs to bring illiterates up to speed, so-called special studies courses to make up in one quarter twelve years of a discriminatory school system, and lowered drastically standards in American schools and colleges.
    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college, but unlike "politically correct" or merely foolish advocates of open admissions, I do not believe that unqualified students should be accepted. Period.

    I am a liberal

    Are you sure about that, bro?

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Settle down, she means a classical liberal, which I consider myself also. Words still mean something.
  28. Ben Kurtz says: • Website

    As usual, time to reference the Most Important Graph in American Education Policy:

    High income black students score as well as trailer-trash white students on the SAT, and performance diverges from there:

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/12/the-blackwhite-sat-gap/

    Why the ACT be any different?

    Read More
    • Replies: @DCBillS
    The SAT comes from NJ (think NY). The ACT comes from America.
  29. 9% are college ready? What I want to know is what percentage are actually in college? Wouldn’t that be worth knowing? There is a great deal of debt, counseling, time, tutoring, resources, whining, involved. The same goes for the 54% group, btw, just the same. How many “not ready” for college actually went to college?

    Read More
  30. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Yeah, but that should change, now that they’ve taken down all those Confederate statues.

    Read More
  31. AndrewR says:
    @dearieme
    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept "strongly ready for college" is misleading.

    The claim is true if we define “college” as… well… an American college in the current year.

    Read More
  32. DCBillS says:
    @Ben Kurtz
    As usual, time to reference the Most Important Graph in American Education Policy:

    High income black students score as well as trailer-trash white students on the SAT, and performance diverges from there:

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/12/the-blackwhite-sat-gap/

    Why the ACT be any different?

    The SAT comes from NJ (think NY). The ACT comes from America.

    Read More
  33. Yada yada says:

    Give me a break, this is by design. The pointy headed Jewish elites need the grievance industry and allthat beautiful federal money for improving education keeps them ensconced in their gated communities. There is no desire to solve the problem.

    Read More
  34. guest says:

    “students who face disadvantages”

    Is it correct to say you “face” your own stupidity? I have the mental image of “disadvantaged” kids staring themselves down in the mirror.

    Hey, pull yourself away from the mirror and crack the books! Or just get a job.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Anyone who has ever attempted to master a challenging curriculum has done the same. I well remember my crack the books or go home moment .
  35. guest says:
    @dearieme
    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept "strongly ready for college" is misleading.

    The concept of “strongly ready” doesn’t exist. At least not in my English.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Aw, c'mon; let's use it in a sentence: "My very pregnant wife is strongly ready yo give birth to a somewhat unique child."
  36. guest says:
    @pyrrhus
    Einstein's definition of crazy--doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results....US leaders, and much of the population, have been clueless for at least 100 years, and no signs of anything changing.

    They get the results they want: money and power over our children, our minds, and our lives. Doing a worse job actually gets them more power and money. It can’t fail!

    Unless enough people Notice. ACT chiefs Noticing is something, I guess.

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  37. guest says:
    @Spud Boy
    Underserved Learners?

    Wow, it's hard to keep track of all these new terms.

    “Learners” is overgenerous. How about Underserved Non-learners?

    Better yet, Non-Served Kids Who Occupy Desks for a Certain Period of Time Annually.

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  38. guest says:
    @poolside
    Steve, on a somewhat related note, have you watched any of the Netflix docu-series "Last Chance U?" It is a veritable cornucopia of iSteve-ness -- college, athletes, education struggles, racial stuff, etc.

    I'm somewhat surprised it was made -- or allowed to be shown -- since it depicts so many special interests in such a bad light.

    https://www.netflix.com/title/80091742

    Just going by the name, I’d hate to be an attractive female attending Last Chance U.

    Unless I were a slutty 50 Shades type.

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  39. guest says:
    @cwhatfuture
    9% are college ready? What I want to know is what percentage are actually in college? Wouldn't that be worth knowing? There is a great deal of debt, counseling, time, tutoring, resources, whining, involved. The same goes for the 54% group, btw, just the same. How many "not ready" for college actually went to college?

    Stop asking the right questions!

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  40. DaveA says:

    Whenever one gap is closed, another gap widens. Relaxing school disciplinary standards widens the achievement gap because black children need more correction than white children to achieve their full potential, and they’re getting less. Every successful black person brags about how hard his daddy whipped him when he misbehaved or got bad grades. In contrast, Japanese boys are never beaten, their mothers dote on them (No chores for you, sweetie, you just study hard and get straight A’s!), and they turn out fine.

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  41. @Father O'Hara
    9 percent of Blacks et al are ready for college? OK,let that 9 percent go to college!

    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?

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    • Replies: @bomag

    ...how will any of these turn out differently this time?
     
    More reality won't be changing public policy anytime soon. I'm sure more money will be allocated; and shaming will continue for those who dare say the emperor has no clothes.
    , @AnotherDad

    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?
     
    Of course--your point--nothing is going to turn out "differently this time".

    In fact the situation with blacks is probably getting a bit worse. College educated black women have miserable fertility. It is hard for them to find a black husband to "marry up" to. Hard generally given the anemic academic performance and generally crappy behavior of black men. But then maybe worse by the "Is Love Colorblind" issue of the best black men marrying out.

    So "black" blacks are probably getting dumber and less conscientious. This is somewhat mitigated by white genes streaming into the "black" population Obama-style. So probably what you're getting is the black population is "spreading"--the bulk of blacks getting worse, and a "colored" much lighter overclass growing and feasting on AA goodies.

    ~~

    The bottom line here. You need eugenic fertility.

    The #1 problem--far and away--in the West is immigration. That is destroying the West.

    But even without it there is a serious problem from modernity and the welfare state creating dysgenic selection. It is just biologically "wrong" to put in a welfare state without including some sort of fertility "penalty" for the incompetents so that the welfare state does not break normal eugenic selection that keeps a population fit and healthy.
  42. nebulafox says:
    @res
    It is actually worse than that. Table 3.3 in the National Profile Report breaks down ACT college readiness benchmarks by subtest and race. 6% of blacks, 8% of American Indians, 14% of Hispanics, 35% of whites, and 48% of Asians meet all four benchmarks (27% of all students overall).

    I’d be curious as to how “Asian” Americans (I’m assuming this includes South Asians, too) break down by ethnicity. Not everyone is the same: Khmer Americans tend to be pretty heavily working class, for example.

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  43. Now that the snickering is subsiding, there are a few questions to ask.
    1. Who will employ those students, if anyone?
    2. How much will your taxes increase to provide welfare-to-work, or just welfare stipends?
    3. Are your children prepared to live in the world of Idiocracy?
    4. What are you doing to help your family and community deal with what is a tsunami of trouble?

    Read More
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    OK, I'll have some fun and take a crack at this.

    1) If our oligarchs-and Tyler Cowen-are to be believed, the hoi polloi will be satisfied with a GAI that, in tandem with other things like debt peonage, will never let them achieve practical independence, but will allow them to survive pseudo-comfortably. I'm a little less sanguine about human nature and the subsequent consequences of this brave new world than our Best and Brightest, but that's the plan, it seems. Not exactly what our Founding Fathers had in mind when they conceived of a nation free from Europe's old structures.

    2) I'm not the best at economics, so anybody here more literate in the subject is free to correct me. But my guess is that the government probably wouldn't be able to afford it (that is to say, in conjunction with our wars abroad, our 14 competing health bureaucracies, etc, etc) at some point, which is where the conglomerates and private interests come in ever more explicitly. Another interesting point is that we will continue to see a surge in military applications solely for the benefits and security provided, as long as that goes on. Also, private services-like liberal arts grads providing privatized education away from the public school system-will boom.

    3) I'm unlikely to have children, statistically and practically speaking, so I don't spend much time thinking about it. But if I did, I ensure they have the skills needed to go work anywhere they want on Earth, and the critical thinking ability to figure it out. I'd also have them avoid debt like the dickens, if at all possible. I'll do whatever it takes to keep them out of the Damned, as long as the system continues current trends. And anybody who stands in my way of that will figure out very painfully how bad of an idea that is.

    4) N/A.

    , @Joe Schmoe

    3. Are your children prepared to live in the world of Idiocracy?
    4. What are you doing to help your family and community deal with what is a tsunami of trouble?
     

    Well, mine will have no college debt when they graduate. And when they marry we will give each a paid for house in a neighborhood with "good schools." That is what we can afford financially. We also gently tell them the truth about life in this age. No age is perfect. At least we have vaccines, so making rational choices based on the real circumstances that exist now should give them some chance to contribute to the world and enjoy life. That is the best I can do for them. I am not the master of the universe, just a parent trying to be responsible and loving.
  44. Given the opioids epidemic, toppling of the traditional family, and general White behaviour aping dysfunctional minority behaviour, isn’t it surprising that whites are still doing as well as they are?

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  45. I look forward to Tiny’s ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn’t until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny’s comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site……cite your sources, Petit Canard!

    Read More
    • Replies: @AB-

    I look forward to Tiny’s ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn’t until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny’s comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site……cite your sources, Petit Canard!
     
    LOL!!! That was about the longest post she ever made. So I was wondering if someone else wrote it for her.

    Turns out, I was right! LOL!

    Getting back on topic, Shaker Heights, Ohio, is an expensive suburb of Cleveland. The negro parents (the talented tenth, you got to be making a 90th percentile income to live there) were complaining to the school district that compared to the white kids, their discharges weren't on the Honor Roll, weren't getting high grades, not getting high SAT scores, and not doing well in college.

    School district hires John Ogbu, noted African scholar from UC Berkeley, to investigate and report.

    He interviews the parents, the discharge, the teachers, the administration.

    Said the problem was the negro parents and discharge are almost completely at fault; that the parents don't insist their discharges study and apply themselves. And the discharges chided the other negros as 'acting white' if they made an effort to learn.

    Of course this didn't go over too well among the 'talented tenth'.....I think the school district spent (wasted) mucho bucks on programs...

    Here's a Harvard review of the book Ogbu wrote about it...a decent, even handed review. At least as even handed as someone at Harvard could do....

    http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-74-issue-4/herarticle/_38


    This all started about 15 years ago.

  46. Classic libtard fail ….. this insane idea that everybody should want to go to college thus be preparing for college

    Read More
  47. Michelle says:

    Ha, ha, ha!!! Seriously?? Whites invented the system, baby, and so races other than the white race would naturally be at a disadvantage. Except, for some reason, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans. What, what?? They took to the Western system like ducks do to water and indeed, surpassed whites at it. But, hey, just chalk me up as an Asian Supremacist!

    Blacks of today, especially, remind me of a story a guy who was a womanizer once told. He said that whenever a woman found out that he was cheating on her, she would get a new hairdo and some new clothes. “But she would never change the way she (bad F word for coitus)ed!”

    Modern Blacks are like that. They keep asking for special treatment, but they never want to change the way they act. Since that methodology does not seem to be getting them any benefits, they might want to mix it up a little. Try something new, for a change. Actually change their behavior. I know it is possible, because, my mom and dad went to high school in Oakland with a lot of Blacks and those Black teenagers were just as well behaved and educated as my mom and dad were. Very few, if any of those Blacks spoke Ebonics and they all got jobs. I have been working for years with those Blacks and they all valued education and did plenty well on “tests” for employment and advancement.

    In any case, it is not some white peoples’ skin color that makes them do well in life, it is a combination of how our brains evolved and the different cultural practices we developed.

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  48. New results from the nation’s most widely used college admission test highlight in detailed fashion the persistent achievement gaps between students who face disadvantages and those who don’t.

    The most important disadvantage here being “having a relatively low IQ”.

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  49. nebulafox says:
    @Off The Street
    Now that the snickering is subsiding, there are a few questions to ask.
    1. Who will employ those students, if anyone?
    2. How much will your taxes increase to provide welfare-to-work, or just welfare stipends?
    3. Are your children prepared to live in the world of Idiocracy?
    4. What are you doing to help your family and community deal with what is a tsunami of trouble?

    OK, I’ll have some fun and take a crack at this.

    1) If our oligarchs-and Tyler Cowen-are to be believed, the hoi polloi will be satisfied with a GAI that, in tandem with other things like debt peonage, will never let them achieve practical independence, but will allow them to survive pseudo-comfortably. I’m a little less sanguine about human nature and the subsequent consequences of this brave new world than our Best and Brightest, but that’s the plan, it seems. Not exactly what our Founding Fathers had in mind when they conceived of a nation free from Europe’s old structures.

    2) I’m not the best at economics, so anybody here more literate in the subject is free to correct me. But my guess is that the government probably wouldn’t be able to afford it (that is to say, in conjunction with our wars abroad, our 14 competing health bureaucracies, etc, etc) at some point, which is where the conglomerates and private interests come in ever more explicitly. Another interesting point is that we will continue to see a surge in military applications solely for the benefits and security provided, as long as that goes on. Also, private services-like liberal arts grads providing privatized education away from the public school system-will boom.

    3) I’m unlikely to have children, statistically and practically speaking, so I don’t spend much time thinking about it. But if I did, I ensure they have the skills needed to go work anywhere they want on Earth, and the critical thinking ability to figure it out. I’d also have them avoid debt like the dickens, if at all possible. I’ll do whatever it takes to keep them out of the Damned, as long as the system continues current trends. And anybody who stands in my way of that will figure out very painfully how bad of an idea that is.

    4) N/A.

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  50. @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    >affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    True, very true. It will create continuous poverty for all but the top 0.1%. No more cycle!

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  51. Kaz says:
    @dearieme
    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept "strongly ready for college" is misleading.

    Sounds about right to me.

    College is a waste of time and money for most people. It’s not supposed to be like ‘high school’, a meaningless benchmark anyone with half a brain could get through.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it's kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren't actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).
    , @Anonymous
    In terms of what you will actually learn, most business and liberal arts undergraduate degrees are useless. Specific knowledge in STEM fields, and a few others are useful if you are actually going to have a career in those fields But employers are free to use having a degree as a filter and so as a practical matter, for a young person starting out, unless you are going into the trades, a college degree is somewhat of a necessity, and eventually you will pay the loan off......if things stay as they are.

    Boot out the illegals, make H-1B unprofitable and unwieldly, throttle legal immigration to the minimal level it should be at, and force American capital to go back to work producing American consumer goods.....and make full time homemaker-motherhood attractive and affordable again for a reasonable percentage of young females....and we go back to a world where only 15-20 percent of the population is reasonably considered college material and high school grads have a shot at decent wages.

    If you think that has a reasonable probability of happening, discourage your kids from college. Otherwise, the goal should be to get them a degree of some kind with the least debt reasonable.
  52. ethelred says:

    No surprises in the content for anyone here – the real news is that these issues are starting to be noticed and questioned in the mainstream.

    Cracks in the dam wall of denial. Even google has its dissidents.

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  53. @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    Tiny Duck is daft (Daffy Duck?)

    I’m a native of Prince George’s County, Maryland. It has the most “affluent” black population in the country. The county is majority black, yet the county’s schools are abysmal. https://www.greatschools.org/maryland/temple-hills/1076-Crossland-High-School/

    I’m very familiar with Crossland High as my cousins graduated Crossland. It was one of the best public high schools in the whole D.C. area in the mid-70s. Yet it’s rating is now bottom of the basement. Could it be the fact that the school had a lily white student body in 1975, yet today has almost no white students?

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  54. Achilles says:

    underserved learners

    Yes, but what about the overserved learners?

    Shouldn’t they be cut off? No more learning for them?

    What if they were to stagger into their cars and get behind the wheel with all that learning in their heads?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Desiderius

    Yes, but what about the overserved learners?

    Shouldn’t they be cut off? No more learning for them?
     
    When I was student teaching, we had a class disrupted by a girl who struggled with attitude issues who was having a particularly bad day. She stood up in the middle of the class and had a Trigglypuff fit telling me what an awful teacher I was and how I'd never amount to anything. I ask the aide that worked with her full time to please remove her from the classroom.

    The next I day I had the excruciating privilege of sitting in on a meeting of seven full-time professionals that consisted of an hour and a half of trying to coax this girl to talk about her problems while constantly being assured how much support she had. Needless to say, no punishment was involved nor any progress made.
  55. Tony says:

    “That kind of shocked us,” ACT chief executive Marten Roorda said.

    About as shocked as Captain Renault.

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  56. AB- says:
    @Scipio Africanus
    @Tiny Duck

    I look forward to Tiny's ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn't until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny's comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site......cite your sources, Petit Canard!

    I look forward to Tiny’s ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn’t until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny’s comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site……cite your sources, Petit Canard!

    LOL!!! That was about the longest post she ever made. So I was wondering if someone else wrote it for her.

    Turns out, I was right! LOL!

    Getting back on topic, Shaker Heights, Ohio, is an expensive suburb of Cleveland. The negro parents (the talented tenth, you got to be making a 90th percentile income to live there) were complaining to the school district that compared to the white kids, their discharges weren’t on the Honor Roll, weren’t getting high grades, not getting high SAT scores, and not doing well in college.

    School district hires John Ogbu, noted African scholar from UC Berkeley, to investigate and report.

    He interviews the parents, the discharge, the teachers, the administration.

    Said the problem was the negro parents and discharge are almost completely at fault; that the parents don’t insist their discharges study and apply themselves. And the discharges chided the other negros as ‘acting white’ if they made an effort to learn.

    Of course this didn’t go over too well among the ‘talented tenth’…..I think the school district spent (wasted) mucho bucks on programs…

    Here’s a Harvard review of the book Ogbu wrote about it…a decent, even handed review. At least as even handed as someone at Harvard could do….

    http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-74-issue-4/herarticle/_38

    This all started about 15 years ago.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Big Bill
    John Ogbu was a Nigerian Ibo (Igbo). They are way smarter than your run of the mill Bantu (e.g. Tiny Duck).

    Ogbu, a Nigerian Igbo immigrant who voluntarily came to this country to study, compete, and better himself, just couldn't understand why American Negroes screwed up so much.

    The best non-genetic reason he could come up with was his oppositional theory: that American Negroes define themselves not as something positive, but as something negative. They define themselves as the opposite of white people. The biggest sin for them is to "ack white" (i.e. study, do well in school, be honest and forthright, diligent, have a sense of shame, be humble, work hard, etc.).

    Ogbu considered this oppositional posture, this (literally) negative identity to be an almost essential part of American Negroes' deep culture.

    From an intelligent Igbo immigrant's perspective (like that of John Ogbu), an American Negroes' attempt to shame his fellow Negroes by accusing them of "acting white" is utterly incomprehensible.

    Me, I think there is a strong genetic component. But I also believe, like Ogbu, that the American Negro also suffers from a deep cultural neurosis.

    Think about it. What else could explain why Tiny Duck keeps coming back, day after day, month after month, year after year, to white websites, instead of bettering himself? He is internally reinforcing his internal non-whiteness, his anti-whiteness, instead of getting on with his life. The poor boy is stuck chasing his tail. Sad.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    I remember reading about that Cleveland study years ago and one thing still stays with me. That is, the black parents considered their kids to be "empty vessels" and that it was the job of the schools to pour knowledge into them. No effort was required on the part of the parents or kids.
    , @AnotherDad
    Shaker Heights and gaps in similar UMC suburbs elsewhere--along with adoption studies--basically put a fork in the "nurture" position for the black-white IQ gap years ago. (The hardcore nurture position already being anti-science--contra to the basic idea of selection and any reasonable theory about what selection was selecting for in Europe versus Africa, given the level of civilizational accomplishment in those places.) You have black kids who come from even relatively *more* selected black families than the corresponding white families, in exactly the same schools, and they are not even close, but shockingly mediocre.

    That nurture loons still bang on and on spreading their flat-earthism is 100% politics (or if you like "religion"--the new religion of equalism and diversity).

    ~~

    There is at least one reasonable nurture variable left. Not a plausible explanation for the gap, but at least a contributing factor. And it is that black culture has developed a very hostile, oppositional culture, that scorns "white" academic behavior--basically what the Igbo guy came up with. The truth is this doesn't really explain much. The whole "acting white" thing is more relevant to the underclass. American black talented 10th types have always put a pretty strong emphasis on education. And blacks trot off to college to get degrees at a pretty good rate. (Actually Hispanics who don't have the hostility have a "don't care about academics" culture that is no doubt leading to crappier academic performance than their IQs should merit.)

    The interesting thing is ... the left rejects this one single plausible explanation. It is "victim blaming" and implicitly imposing "white cultural norms". And it would be pretty hard for them to do otherwise, because the left/Jews/Democrats have spent the last 50+ precisely encouraging black hostility toward white gentiles. So they can't readily spin around and say ... "hey hostility, that's your problem."

    So what we get now is the even more stupid "systematic racism", "stereotype threat" and "magic dirt" theories. We're beyond crude "socio-economic" nurturism now and into the realm of fantasy and magic.
  57. Alice says:

    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate “college readiness” scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That’s a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can’t read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it’s hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

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    • Agree: Jim Don Bob, Triumph104
    • Replies: @dr kill
    No problem, we can be like Egyptians, just purchase your desired degree at the local pharmacy. In the Southwest Asia, everyone jokes about waiting for the Iranian MD instead of seeing the Egyptian Dr.
    , @Ed
    Is a 1/3 of whites being college ready really a bad thing? In Germany only 20% or so are deemed worthy of continuing on the college track. For sure the % seems low compared to what a group mean IQ score of 100 would predict but not by much.
    , @Mr. Rational

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc)
     
    Ye gods, talk about low bars.  I would have aced college algebra after the 9th grade.  I nailed the AP Calc BC exam in the 11th.
    , @The Anti-Gnostic

    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing.
     
    It's not. Before we decided that formal education of legal adults was some kind of public good very few people went to college. For half the population, formal schooling should be over by age 16.

    These crusades roll out continuously with the same results. Common Core math is particularly insidious, literally Steve's ball-peen hammer method: the bright students bog down in the verbal jiu-jitsu in the hopes that the dim students will stumble into a "correct" answer and equalize the outcomes. Reform after reform, and the Pareto optimum for post-secondary education remains stubbornly fixed around the IQ distributions for various groups. Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.
    , @Jack D
    In de future America, all dem pikins dey be bove average.

    We are sending way too many people to college who are not really college material because we don't really have jobs for them in the economy either.
    , @Jim
    About 25% of the white population has an IQ above 110. We are probably sending virtually everybody to college who is likely to benefit from it and a lot more who aren't.
  58. @Kaz
    Sounds about right to me.

    College is a waste of time and money for most people. It's not supposed to be like 'high school', a meaningless benchmark anyone with half a brain could get through.

    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it’s kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren’t actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Poor verbal skills among Hindoos are not at all surprising to anyone enduring them on a daily basis. I cannot begin to tell you how many aspire to someday be a "principle engineer" and of their complete disdain for articles...all despite being (ostensibly) taught English from childhood.
    , @Twinkie

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren’t actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).
     
    There is another phenomenon that may be related:

    Among the first generation, Indians in America have substantially greater English monolingualism than Chinese and Korean immigrants do. The former also have much greater English facility (given that they arrive with it and are more highly selected by education and income). But by the third generation, not only does the proficiency gap close, but the latter display slightly higher English monolingualism (which I posit is a proxy for assimilation).

    Also, for the "Asians have higher average SAT scores than white only because they cheat" crowd, the ACT data ought to be edifying.
    , @F YI
    Did you ever reply to Sineruse's very informative comments (on Asian underperformance) at the link below? It looks like he completely demolished the Han supremacist line that you push and answered your complaints in great detail.

    http://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/consanguinity-and-islam-and-democracy/#comment-15702

    , @Brutusale
    I give you the test that Massachusetts has been giving students for 20+ years, the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System.

    http://www.doe.mass.edu/mcas/results.html

    He's the whiny Bullshitpedia article highlighting how it hurts the feelings of the little snowflakes when they find out how much dumber they are than they thought.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Comprehensive_Assessment_System
    , @Truther
    Interesting website. I did a quick comparison of the various "Asian" groups and here's what I found:

    1) The Northeast Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) and Asian Indians score far higher than the Southeast Asians (Filipino, Cambodian, Laotian, Hmong), with the Vietnamese somewhere between those 2 groups. The "Asian" average is dragged down by the latter group.

    2) The various Asian groups score in roughly the following order:

    Chinese, Korean >> Japanese, Asian Indian >> Vietnamese >> Cambodian > Filipino > Laotian > Hmong.

    3) The lowest scoring Asian group, the Hmongs, still score higher than Hispanics and blacks in almost all subjects.

    The Japanese are probably the smallest group among the top 4, most likely mostly native born. The other 3 groups Chinese, Korean and Indian are much more recent immigrant groups.

  59. Yak-15 says:
    @William
    Stephen is 100% correct. No one should be surprised by these results. It has been common knowledge for over 50 years. I taught univ level English courses for thirty years, and I saw first hand the disasterous, losing fight, to correct social problems of many years standing simply by allowing anyone, regardless of qualifications, to be accepted to colleges and universities. This resulted in the creation of crash programs to bring illiterates up to speed, so-called special studies courses to make up in one quarter twelve years of a discriminatory school system, and lowered drastically standards in American schools and colleges.
    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college, but unlike "politically correct" or merely foolish advocates of open admissions, I do not believe that unqualified students should be accepted. Period.

    Discriminatory? Chicago pubic schools spend twice per student compared to some of the city’s exurbs and achieve substantially poorer test scores. How do we overcome a problem, likely genetic in origin, that money cannot solve amongst a population that refuses to change it cultural habits?

    Read More
  60. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Assuming normal curves with a common standard deviation, the 35% of whites meeting the “All Four” readiness standard would put the cut-off at 0.39 SD above the white mean. The 6% of blacks meeting that standard would put the cut-off at 1.55 SD above the black mean.

    The 1.16 SD difference is in the range predicted by the Fundamental Law of American Sociology.

    Read More
  61. dr kill says:
    @Hubbub
    The Educators can try as they will, but these special programs like No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top, and, now, Common Core will not make one iota of difference in students' aptitudes or intelligence - try as they might, with all sincerity. These students can not be made into something they are not capable of becoming. It's that simple. We've spent 3 or 4 trillion dollars in the past 5 decades to only reap the same harvest, year after year after year. To continue to do as we've done is insanity on steroids. Educators know this, but are wont not to say the truth (troof) about the abysmal attempts to perpetrate fraud upon the nation's parents and children. You can't make something more than it's possible to be.

    Some people and groups are second- and third- class individuals when it comes to intelligence. Accept the fact and then do what can be done to salvage something from a losing cause.

    My Grandfather used to say, – Never underestimate what a man will do to keep a good-paying job. Never more true than the education racket. Sad.

    Read More
  62. @Roderick Spode
    I can't be the only one who likes to misread "underserved" as "undeserved" -- truly no educator does deserve this situation.

    See also "hysterically black" for "historically black" per some other commenter on here.

    truly no educator does deserve this situation

    No I’d say most of us deserve exactly this situation, good and hard.

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  63. dr kill says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    I actually agree with the main point of your rant, I think, which is that until there are enough colored folks in higher positions through the work force to favor their own colored folks. Affirmative Action is the least objectionable choice. My granddad used to say, your people can get you your first job, but not your second job.

    Anyone who thinks a meritocracy exists in the USSA hasn’t been paying attention. Especially in college admissions, grad schools in particular.

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.
     
    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.
  64. @Achilles

    underserved learners
     
    Yes, but what about the overserved learners?

    Shouldn't they be cut off? No more learning for them?

    What if they were to stagger into their cars and get behind the wheel with all that learning in their heads?

    Yes, but what about the overserved learners?

    Shouldn’t they be cut off? No more learning for them?

    When I was student teaching, we had a class disrupted by a girl who struggled with attitude issues who was having a particularly bad day. She stood up in the middle of the class and had a Trigglypuff fit telling me what an awful teacher I was and how I’d never amount to anything. I ask the aide that worked with her full time to please remove her from the classroom.

    The next I day I had the excruciating privilege of sitting in on a meeting of seven full-time professionals that consisted of an hour and a half of trying to coax this girl to talk about her problems while constantly being assured how much support she had. Needless to say, no punishment was involved nor any progress made.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dr kill
    Your job sucks.
    , @Desiderius
    No, that district chose to pay those seven rather than this one, so that is no longer my job. We'll see if I return to something similar in the future.
  65. dr kill says:
    @Roderick Spode

    I am a liberal
     
    Are you sure about that, bro?

    Settle down, she means a classical liberal, which I consider myself also. Words still mean something.

    Read More
  66. dr kill says:
    @guest
    "students who face disadvantages"

    Is it correct to say you "face" your own stupidity? I have the mental image of "disadvantaged" kids staring themselves down in the mirror.

    Hey, pull yourself away from the mirror and crack the books! Or just get a job.

    Anyone who has ever attempted to master a challenging curriculum has done the same. I well remember my crack the books or go home moment .

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  67. @Clark Westwood

    New results from the nation’s most widely used college admission test highlight in detailed fashion the persistent achievement gaps between students who face disadvantages and those who don’t.
     
    LOL. It's all about the "disadvantages." We just have to try harder to eliminate those darned disadvantages!

    The easiest one to eliminate is the one they’re saddled with 8 months and 29 days before birth.  IUDs, Depo-Provera and tubal ligation are highly effective.

    Read More
  68. dr kill says:
    @Alice
    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate "college readiness" scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That's a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can't read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it's hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

    No problem, we can be like Egyptians, just purchase your desired degree at the local pharmacy. In the Southwest Asia, everyone jokes about waiting for the Iranian MD instead of seeing the Egyptian Dr.

    Read More
  69. dr kill says:
    @Desiderius

    Yes, but what about the overserved learners?

    Shouldn’t they be cut off? No more learning for them?
     
    When I was student teaching, we had a class disrupted by a girl who struggled with attitude issues who was having a particularly bad day. She stood up in the middle of the class and had a Trigglypuff fit telling me what an awful teacher I was and how I'd never amount to anything. I ask the aide that worked with her full time to please remove her from the classroom.

    The next I day I had the excruciating privilege of sitting in on a meeting of seven full-time professionals that consisted of an hour and a half of trying to coax this girl to talk about her problems while constantly being assured how much support she had. Needless to say, no punishment was involved nor any progress made.

    Your job sucks.

    Read More
  70. I wonder what the average ACT scores for whites from West Virginia was? Assuming it would make a significant difference, I propose that all such studies use only whites from West Virginia. It should make the NAMs feel a little bit better about themselves. And while we’re going that route, use only Hmong and Khmers to represent the Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Looking at Table 3.3 (comparable to Steve's graphic above) in http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/cccr2017/P_49_499999_S_S_N00_ACT-GCPR_West_Virginia.pdf
    We see that 20% of WV whites met all four readiness benchmarks. Still 3x that of US blacks at 6% (WV blacks were 5%).

    Table 2.3 has average scores by race. 20.3 ACT composite for WV whites.

    10,305 out of 12,011 WV ACT takers were white.
    , @dr kill
    WVU, the State University of West Virginia , doesn't require applicants to submit an SAT score. Make of that what you will.
  71. Ed says:
    @Alice
    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate "college readiness" scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That's a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can't read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it's hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

    Is a 1/3 of whites being college ready really a bad thing? In Germany only 20% or so are deemed worthy of continuing on the college track. For sure the % seems low compared to what a group mean IQ score of 100 would predict but not by much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Even more worrisome is that is not 1/3 of whites. It is 1/3 of whites who took the ACT. Does anyone have any numbers for how many take the ACT and/or SAT versus the total number of students? Ideally with a racial breakdown.
  72. @res
    It is actually worse than that. Table 3.3 in the National Profile Report breaks down ACT college readiness benchmarks by subtest and race. 6% of blacks, 8% of American Indians, 14% of Hispanics, 35% of whites, and 48% of Asians meet all four benchmarks (27% of all students overall).

    If 35% of Whites qualify, the bar is set very low.  If it was set at something reasonable like 1 STDV above the mean, it would be less than half that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    As I noted in an earlier comment, it is 1/3 of whites who take the ACT. I don't know how many whites take neither the SAT nor ACT.
  73. Big Bill says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    Oddly enough, children of poverty-stricken refugee Asians and poverty-stricken whites do better on the SAT than children of upper middle class and upper class blacks. I wish poverty and oppression could explain the difference, but it can’t.

    Read More
  74. @dearieme
    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept "strongly ready for college" is misleading.

    Climate change has fragged and distorted all information. Signals are received in a meteor shower of noise, and must be interpreted using a cultural translator that is updated daily. This is only a test, or perhaps a means for isolating the incredulous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato
    I'm adjusting my TV set but this message is not going away.
  75. @res
    It is actually worse than that. Table 3.3 in the National Profile Report breaks down ACT college readiness benchmarks by subtest and race. 6% of blacks, 8% of American Indians, 14% of Hispanics, 35% of whites, and 48% of Asians meet all four benchmarks (27% of all students overall).

    If you do the standardized SD equivalents of 35% and 6%, -.385 sd is the cutoff for whites, and -1.55 is the cutoff for blacks, which is a gap of 1.165 SD.

    Which is not exactly what you’d call closing.

    All educational reform is nothing but talk until it reaches time to enter college. That’s when and where it matters.

    And not a damn thing has changed in, what, maybe 40 or 50 years?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Again, note that the test takers are self selected. I don't know what drives the larger gap in that group. Perhaps the expectation that affirmative action will allow admission to even poor scoring blacks causes more marginal blacks to try the test?
  76. @dearieme
    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept "strongly ready for college" is misleading.

    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept “strongly ready for college” is misleading.

    That’s not what it says. It says 54% of those who have none of the negative factors–ie. not NAM, not low income and not first generation (i.e. without college educated parents). So basically it is saying that it is 54% ready for white and Asian middle class kids with college educated parents. I agree that probably even then their bar is bit flabby about these folks really being “college material”, but it’s not ridiculous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JosephB
    Thank you for writing this reply before I was able to. I'm glad at least one of the commenters has sufficient reading comprehension skills as to be "strongly ready for college."
  77. @guest
    The concept of "strongly ready" doesn't exist. At least not in my English.

    Aw, c’mon; let’s use it in a sentence: “My very pregnant wife is strongly ready yo give birth to a somewhat unique child.”

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  78. @Autochthon
    It "kind of shocks me" that I cannot sing as well as David Coverdale and Amy Lee or do preposterous things with a guitar the way Steve Vai can. I am clearly an "underserved" musician.

    No one pisses and moans and shovels buckets of money and shame at the equally clear fact that most people are also second and third class musicians, athletes, dancers, and so on, or that much of the differences in ability in these endeavors tracks identifiable genetic groups at statistically valid levels. Whither the outrage?

    Why no handwringing about runners from eastern Africa, and a programme dedicated to stamping out The Gap suffered by Hindoos aspiring to compete meaningfully in marathons?

    Comparing what goes on vis-a-vis intelligence with similar phenomena in literally any endeavor or trait you may mention makes clear the whole business is horseshit.

    We must not allow a Hindu marathon gap!

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  79. @Duke of Qin
    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it's kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren't actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    Poor verbal skills among Hindoos are not at all surprising to anyone enduring them on a daily basis. I cannot begin to tell you how many aspire to someday be a “principle engineer” and of their complete disdain for articles…all despite being (ostensibly) taught English from childhood.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Obviously you can't go by Indians born overseas. Even Indians that profess to be native English speakers almost always speak it as a 2nd language. Grammatical errors are common in non-native English speakers, especially if they are coming from a language with a very different grammatical structure. Hindi lacks a definite article and doesn't use indefinite articles much either so errors concerning articles are to be expected.

    In general, I think that S. Asians assimilate less than E. Asians after a couple of generations. E. Asians are more interested in assimilation - most E. Asians in America give their kids English first names on their birth certificates (even if they also have Asian names that they use at home). Whereas S. Asians almost always continue to give their kids Asian names (if you look at the list of the spelling bee winners since 2008, they are all S. Asian and not a single one has an Americanized first name). I also get the feeling that E. Asians intermarry with whites more often.

    Generally speaking, verbal and mathematical ability are correlated with each other. E. Asians tend to be very strong mathematically so their verbal abilities seem weaker by comparison to their math skills (esp. 1st generation non-native English speakers - going from E. Asian languages to English is a bitch because they are so different). But this is only in comparison to themselves. Compared to the general population, they are strong in verbal too. For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high.
  80. @Alice
    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate "college readiness" scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That's a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can't read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it's hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc)

    Ye gods, talk about low bars.  I would have aced college algebra after the 9th grade.  I nailed the AP Calc BC exam in the 11th.

    Read More
  81. phil says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    Blacks from families earning $100,000-$200,000 per year are outscored on the SAT (on average) by whites and Asians from families below the poverty line.

    It has long been understood by intelligence researchers that blacks have cognitive deficiencies independently of socioeconomic status.

    Read More
  82. Mr. Anon says:
    @William
    Stephen is 100% correct. No one should be surprised by these results. It has been common knowledge for over 50 years. I taught univ level English courses for thirty years, and I saw first hand the disasterous, losing fight, to correct social problems of many years standing simply by allowing anyone, regardless of qualifications, to be accepted to colleges and universities. This resulted in the creation of crash programs to bring illiterates up to speed, so-called special studies courses to make up in one quarter twelve years of a discriminatory school system, and lowered drastically standards in American schools and colleges.
    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college, but unlike "politically correct" or merely foolish advocates of open admissions, I do not believe that unqualified students should be accepted. Period.

    I am a liberal and want anyone who is qualified, regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation, to be able to go to college

    I think they should only go to college if there is some reason for them to do so, not just because they are able. A smart kid who gets a scholarship to college and then spends four years getting a degree in environmental studies, queer studies, or some kind of poz-laden humanities or ‘social-science’ degree is wasting resources every bit as much as a student who is simply not bright enough to go to college.

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  83. Big Bill says:
    @AB-

    I look forward to Tiny’s ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn’t until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny’s comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site……cite your sources, Petit Canard!
     
    LOL!!! That was about the longest post she ever made. So I was wondering if someone else wrote it for her.

    Turns out, I was right! LOL!

    Getting back on topic, Shaker Heights, Ohio, is an expensive suburb of Cleveland. The negro parents (the talented tenth, you got to be making a 90th percentile income to live there) were complaining to the school district that compared to the white kids, their discharges weren't on the Honor Roll, weren't getting high grades, not getting high SAT scores, and not doing well in college.

    School district hires John Ogbu, noted African scholar from UC Berkeley, to investigate and report.

    He interviews the parents, the discharge, the teachers, the administration.

    Said the problem was the negro parents and discharge are almost completely at fault; that the parents don't insist their discharges study and apply themselves. And the discharges chided the other negros as 'acting white' if they made an effort to learn.

    Of course this didn't go over too well among the 'talented tenth'.....I think the school district spent (wasted) mucho bucks on programs...

    Here's a Harvard review of the book Ogbu wrote about it...a decent, even handed review. At least as even handed as someone at Harvard could do....

    http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-74-issue-4/herarticle/_38


    This all started about 15 years ago.

    John Ogbu was a Nigerian Ibo (Igbo). They are way smarter than your run of the mill Bantu (e.g. Tiny Duck).

    Ogbu, a Nigerian Igbo immigrant who voluntarily came to this country to study, compete, and better himself, just couldn’t understand why American Negroes screwed up so much.

    The best non-genetic reason he could come up with was his oppositional theory: that American Negroes define themselves not as something positive, but as something negative. They define themselves as the opposite of white people. The biggest sin for them is to “ack white” (i.e. study, do well in school, be honest and forthright, diligent, have a sense of shame, be humble, work hard, etc.).

    Ogbu considered this oppositional posture, this (literally) negative identity to be an almost essential part of American Negroes’ deep culture.

    From an intelligent Igbo immigrant’s perspective (like that of John Ogbu), an American Negroes’ attempt to shame his fellow Negroes by accusing them of “acting white” is utterly incomprehensible.

    Me, I think there is a strong genetic component. But I also believe, like Ogbu, that the American Negro also suffers from a deep cultural neurosis.

    Think about it. What else could explain why Tiny Duck keeps coming back, day after day, month after month, year after year, to white websites, instead of bettering himself? He is internally reinforcing his internal non-whiteness, his anti-whiteness, instead of getting on with his life. The poor boy is stuck chasing his tail. Sad.

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  84. Mr. Anon says:
    @dr kill
    I actually agree with the main point of your rant, I think, which is that until there are enough colored folks in higher positions through the work force to favor their own colored folks. Affirmative Action is the least objectionable choice. My granddad used to say, your people can get you your first job, but not your second job.

    Anyone who thinks a meritocracy exists in the USSA hasn't been paying attention. Especially in college admissions, grad schools in particular.

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.

    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.
     
    Not for long, as that guy has a high chance of losing his license. Indeed, he might have graduated from medical school, but he likely would not be board-certified, effectively making him unable to practice at most hospitals.
    , @dr kill
    That is a good story, and one I enjoy using. I was 87th in a class of 105. But in my line of work, (vetmed) clients are much more particular than the average consumer of human emergency room medicine. There are always too many vets, but never enough good ones. Jump in, the water is fine.
    , @dr kill
    You may find this interesting- coming soon to a hospital near you. Third world medicine.

    http://www.unz.com/article/bad-medicine-the-sickening-truth-about-britains-foreign-doctors/
  85. Michelle says:

    Here is an interesting video, purporting to show African American college students attacking a pregnant Popeye’s Chicken Manager and in return getting a beat down by fed up Popeye’s employees who have, no doubt, seen it all. Apparently, the young college coeds were unable to offer a coherent explanation of what they wished to order from the menu and we’re asked to step inside the establishment in order to try and sort out the difficultly. Literally, these college students are incapable of ordering fast food at a drive through window!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/popeyes-employees-caught-camera-fighting-customers-article-1.3477625

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    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Notice how the Negro males present just stand around like jackasses instead of breaking up the fight, restraining the aggressors, etc. (as a typical white man would in such a situation) – of course, for all I know the Negroes are on the side of the aggressors, but in that case why not at least intervene once defenders begin to take back their own...?

    Indeed, I've seen many such videos wherein the Negro male laughs, cheers, and encourages females to beat each other. Classy. Manly.

    , @Truth
    Rich white companies fly their employees to country-club settings for the weekend, all-expenses included to build workplace unity like that.

    That manager should be a McKinsey consultant!
  86. @Desiderius

    Yes, but what about the overserved learners?

    Shouldn’t they be cut off? No more learning for them?
     
    When I was student teaching, we had a class disrupted by a girl who struggled with attitude issues who was having a particularly bad day. She stood up in the middle of the class and had a Trigglypuff fit telling me what an awful teacher I was and how I'd never amount to anything. I ask the aide that worked with her full time to please remove her from the classroom.

    The next I day I had the excruciating privilege of sitting in on a meeting of seven full-time professionals that consisted of an hour and a half of trying to coax this girl to talk about her problems while constantly being assured how much support she had. Needless to say, no punishment was involved nor any progress made.

    No, that district chose to pay those seven rather than this one, so that is no longer my job. We’ll see if I return to something similar in the future.

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  87. El Dato says:
    @Neil Templeton
    Climate change has fragged and distorted all information. Signals are received in a meteor shower of noise, and must be interpreted using a cultural translator that is updated daily. This is only a test, or perhaps a means for isolating the incredulous.

    I’m adjusting my TV set but this message is not going away.

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  88. Gave a background look over this but looking at this particular report is not illuminating. Definitely stuff everyone should already know. The mostly made up and confusing college readiness benchmark (ACT-based stuff is always bad on this, in fact as anyone who reads both will see directly below authors of different studies use different criteria, they aren’t even consistent!) isn’t that helpful either, especially as it lumps 3 or 4 subsections together.

    Although contrary to the cruel pessimism of a few other commenters I think it must be said that test scores of some students could be raised marginally with better training, background, schools, etc. Say, poor Hispanics and blacks, but by no means only poor Hispanics and blacks, many who score something like 350 on the SAT or a corresponding score on the ACT could instead score 400 under different circumstances. The broad, “C student” middle shows the most room for raw improvement by training/better teaching on standardized tests like these. It would also be possible of course for a meaningful percentage of students somewhat higher up the curve to move to hitting arbitrary “college ready” benchmarks too.Pointless in a policy sense, in that it really could only lead to zero-sum competition within the cohort of students under the current system and no benefits to society at large, but worth noting.

    I was stopping by to make note of another study bouncing around recently. Shows similar results to things we already know, namely that it’s disproportionately lower/lower middle-class and rural whites who are the most “overlooked” demographic in college recruitment and eventual attainment due to their present day lack of opportunity (I believe some hear will have seen Hoxby/a few other studies). Anyway this analysis will be on record. The author of the study is not emphasizing the above conclusion but that’s what the data really show.

    http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/full/10.1162/EDFP_a_00206

    The author almost maliciously does not provides N’s for relevant data, (as in table 2) and it has to be approximately derived, but the main result from this study is this:

    Mandatory/universal coverage of standardized testing being implemented in a state (Michigan) shows there are some students who are potentially college capable previously being overlooked and not on track to go to college. This is not surprising of course, to anyone who knows about US public school systems. The number of students involved in this window and timeframe is about:
    25,000 white students
    400 black students
    (also a small number of some others but don’t have the raw data or even sufficient statistics to make an estimate; the population of Michigan students is supermajority white or black in total though)

    Of course much research like this is a moot point because of zero-sum behavior in the educational system (for minorities) and outright exclusion for the lower-class, unconnected whites. If 20 thousand such white students who would be marginally qualified to attend college applied UMichigan (or Michigan State or whatever is appropriate) how many more would even be accepted? Five? Ten?

    It is a noble consideration to a certain extent to notice “overlooked” students but the laser-like focus on the small number of NAM minorities that could be found while there are lots of poor and disadvantaged others is frustrating. Never mind that again, the entire system needs reforming if we’re not just shuffling around students in zero-sum games, putting them into debt, and all that jazz

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  89. Twinkie says:
    @Duke of Qin
    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it's kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren't actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren’t actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    There is another phenomenon that may be related:

    Among the first generation, Indians in America have substantially greater English monolingualism than Chinese and Korean immigrants do. The former also have much greater English facility (given that they arrive with it and are more highly selected by education and income). But by the third generation, not only does the proficiency gap close, but the latter display slightly higher English monolingualism (which I posit is a proxy for assimilation).

    Also, for the “Asians have higher average SAT scores than white only because they cheat” crowd, the ACT data ought to be edifying.

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  90. Twinkie says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.
     
    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.

    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.

    Not for long, as that guy has a high chance of losing his license. Indeed, he might have graduated from medical school, but he likely would not be board-certified, effectively making him unable to practice at most hospitals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If the guy graduated from an American medical college that isn't a HBCU or something, he'll probably get a residency in something tough to screw up with lethal results or be encouraged to go into administration. I had a neighbor who was a MD who was a "medical review officer" for a local lab that mostly just did drug tests and paternity tests for the court system. As long as you knew how to skew the results, he admitted, they could screw up pretty badly without much consequence to the company.

    He admitted that he was in the bottom tenth of his med school class. He said he would have rather been a motorcycle mechanic than a doctor, but his parents would have disinherited him. He liked his job because it was 40 hours a week and gave him the money and time to build motorcycles.
    , @Truth
    The medical bar passage rate, adjusting for specialty, is about %93.

    http://www.abim.org/~/media/ABIM%20Public/Files/pdf/statistics-data/certification-pass-rates.pdf


    But hey, aren't you guys a little, well embarrased by the grim statistic that a little over one third, of white high school grads are ready for college?
  91. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Kaz
    Sounds about right to me.

    College is a waste of time and money for most people. It's not supposed to be like 'high school', a meaningless benchmark anyone with half a brain could get through.

    In terms of what you will actually learn, most business and liberal arts undergraduate degrees are useless. Specific knowledge in STEM fields, and a few others are useful if you are actually going to have a career in those fields But employers are free to use having a degree as a filter and so as a practical matter, for a young person starting out, unless you are going into the trades, a college degree is somewhat of a necessity, and eventually you will pay the loan off……if things stay as they are.

    Boot out the illegals, make H-1B unprofitable and unwieldly, throttle legal immigration to the minimal level it should be at, and force American capital to go back to work producing American consumer goods…..and make full time homemaker-motherhood attractive and affordable again for a reasonable percentage of young females….and we go back to a world where only 15-20 percent of the population is reasonably considered college material and high school grads have a shot at decent wages.

    If you think that has a reasonable probability of happening, discourage your kids from college. Otherwise, the goal should be to get them a degree of some kind with the least debt reasonable.

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  92. F YI says:
    @Duke of Qin
    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it's kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren't actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    Did you ever reply to Sineruse’s very informative comments (on Asian underperformance) at the link below? It looks like he completely demolished the Han supremacist line that you push and answered your complaints in great detail.

    http://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/consanguinity-and-islam-and-democracy/#comment-15702

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    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    Hi Sineruse!

    Wow a comment I left 5 years ago received a reply six months after the fact. You didn't so much as "demolish" my line as much as double down on the lying. I provided the direct links to the source material that you referred to. Anyone is free to check the data for themselves as to who is misrepresenting the facts.

    For example, you wrote: "The Duke study had extremely detailed controls for course selection, as I just explained in some detail"

    Actual paper authors wrote page 3, paragraph 2: "There are, however, at least two reasons to be skeptical of Figure 1: variance and course selection." and " Note that these averages do not take into account selection into courses"

    That is some chutzpah right there, to lie so flagrantly operating under the assumption that no one would actually take the time to double check the source.

    One additional point that I feel must be reiterated but that Sineruse ignored is that these categories are for a broad "Asian" and not specifically "Chinese".
  93. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Twinkie

    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.
     
    Not for long, as that guy has a high chance of losing his license. Indeed, he might have graduated from medical school, but he likely would not be board-certified, effectively making him unable to practice at most hospitals.

    If the guy graduated from an American medical college that isn’t a HBCU or something, he’ll probably get a residency in something tough to screw up with lethal results or be encouraged to go into administration. I had a neighbor who was a MD who was a “medical review officer” for a local lab that mostly just did drug tests and paternity tests for the court system. As long as you knew how to skew the results, he admitted, they could screw up pretty badly without much consequence to the company.

    He admitted that he was in the bottom tenth of his med school class. He said he would have rather been a motorcycle mechanic than a doctor, but his parents would have disinherited him. He liked his job because it was 40 hours a week and gave him the money and time to build motorcycles.

    Read More
  94. res says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I wonder what the average ACT scores for whites from West Virginia was? Assuming it would make a significant difference, I propose that all such studies use only whites from West Virginia. It should make the NAMs feel a little bit better about themselves. And while we're going that route, use only Hmong and Khmers to represent the Asians.

    Looking at Table 3.3 (comparable to Steve’s graphic above) in http://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/cccr2017/P_49_499999_S_S_N00_ACT-GCPR_West_Virginia.pdf
    We see that 20% of WV whites met all four readiness benchmarks. Still 3x that of US blacks at 6% (WV blacks were 5%).

    Table 2.3 has average scores by race. 20.3 ACT composite for WV whites.

    10,305 out of 12,011 WV ACT takers were white.

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  95. res says:
    @Ed
    Is a 1/3 of whites being college ready really a bad thing? In Germany only 20% or so are deemed worthy of continuing on the college track. For sure the % seems low compared to what a group mean IQ score of 100 would predict but not by much.

    Even more worrisome is that is not 1/3 of whites. It is 1/3 of whites who took the ACT. Does anyone have any numbers for how many take the ACT and/or SAT versus the total number of students? Ideally with a racial breakdown.

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  96. res says:
    @Mr. Rational
    If 35% of Whites qualify, the bar is set very low.  If it was set at something reasonable like 1 STDV above the mean, it would be less than half that.

    As I noted in an earlier comment, it is 1/3 of whites who take the ACT. I don’t know how many whites take neither the SAT nor ACT.

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  97. res says:
    @candid_observer
    If you do the standardized SD equivalents of 35% and 6%, -.385 sd is the cutoff for whites, and -1.55 is the cutoff for blacks, which is a gap of 1.165 SD.

    Which is not exactly what you'd call closing.

    All educational reform is nothing but talk until it reaches time to enter college. That's when and where it matters.

    And not a damn thing has changed in, what, maybe 40 or 50 years?

    Again, note that the test takers are self selected. I don’t know what drives the larger gap in that group. Perhaps the expectation that affirmative action will allow admission to even poor scoring blacks causes more marginal blacks to try the test?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    Several states mandate all HS juniors take the ACT exam of course some would have dropped out by then. If you look at the state reports for such states you'd get a decent snapshot of an entire popoulation.
  98. Ed says:
    @res
    Again, note that the test takers are self selected. I don't know what drives the larger gap in that group. Perhaps the expectation that affirmative action will allow admission to even poor scoring blacks causes more marginal blacks to try the test?

    Several states mandate all HS juniors take the ACT exam of course some would have dropped out by then. If you look at the state reports for such states you’d get a decent snapshot of an entire popoulation.

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  99. JosephB says:
    @AnotherDad

    The claim that about half of American youngsters are strongly ready for college suggests that the concept “strongly ready for college” is misleading.
     
    That's not what it says. It says 54% of those who have none of the negative factors--ie. not NAM, not low income and not first generation (i.e. without college educated parents). So basically it is saying that it is 54% ready for white and Asian middle class kids with college educated parents. I agree that probably even then their bar is bit flabby about these folks really being "college material", but it's not ridiculous.

    Thank you for writing this reply before I was able to. I’m glad at least one of the commenters has sufficient reading comprehension skills as to be “strongly ready for college.”

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  100. @Alice
    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate "college readiness" scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That's a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can't read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it's hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing.

    It’s not. Before we decided that formal education of legal adults was some kind of public good very few people went to college. For half the population, formal schooling should be over by age 16.

    These crusades roll out continuously with the same results. Common Core math is particularly insidious, literally Steve’s ball-peen hammer method: the bright students bog down in the verbal jiu-jitsu in the hopes that the dim students will stumble into a “correct” answer and equalize the outcomes. Reform after reform, and the Pareto optimum for post-secondary education remains stubbornly fixed around the IQ distributions for various groups. Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.

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    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    college should be reserved for the really smart and/or the really rich. Most jobs should be learned on the job.
    , @Triumph104

    Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.
     
    That is not going to happen. There is too much money in public education, hundreds of billions. The best way to access that money, by private industry in particular, is to offer "solutions" that will prepare every child for college.

    Bill Gates (Common Core) and Mark Zuckerberg have no interest in actually hiring blacks and Hispanics, but they are both actively involved in public education in the US and Africa because of the money they can make selling software and collecting data.

    The Walton Foundation (Walmart) is heavily involved in public charter schools in order to create a more compliant workforce. Recently the Walton family built a private school in Bentonville, Arkansas, Walmart headquarters, so that the children of the company's executives don't have to go to public school.
  101. dr kill says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.
     
    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.

    That is a good story, and one I enjoy using. I was 87th in a class of 105. But in my line of work, (vetmed) clients are much more particular than the average consumer of human emergency room medicine. There are always too many vets, but never enough good ones. Jump in, the water is fine.

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  102. dr kill says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I wonder what the average ACT scores for whites from West Virginia was? Assuming it would make a significant difference, I propose that all such studies use only whites from West Virginia. It should make the NAMs feel a little bit better about themselves. And while we're going that route, use only Hmong and Khmers to represent the Asians.

    WVU, the State University of West Virginia , doesn’t require applicants to submit an SAT score. Make of that what you will.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    That's incorrect. In fact they have a floor on scores one must meet in order to be admitted.

    https://admissions.wvu.edu/how-to-apply/first-time-freshmen#anchor-freshmanreqs


    West Virginia residents: must have at least a 2.0 cumulative high school GPA and either a super scored ACT composite of 19 or a super scored Math and Critical Reading SAT total of 910 (pre-March 2016 test sitting) or a super scored Evidence Based Reading/Writing and Math Section score of 990 (post-March 2016 test sitting). SAT scores will not be super scored across pre-March 2016 scores and post-March 2016 scores.
    Nonresidents: must have at least a 2.5 cumulative high school GPA and either a super scored ACT composite of 21 or a super scored Math and Critical Reading SAT total of 990 (pre-March 2016 test sitting) or a super scored Evidence Based Reading/Writing and Math Section score of 1070 (post-March 2016 test sitting). SAT scores will not be super scored across pre-March 2016 sittings and post-March sittings 2016.
     
    West Virginia is trying to get students from neighboring MD that are denied admission into MD-College Park. I think they even give them a break in tuition something in between in-state/out of state. It's a pretty good school, good engineering/mining program.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Someone I went to high school with, who was literally retarded, is an alumnus of WVU. So you don't have to tell me.
  103. Gene Su says:
    @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    [The world is not a meritocracy.]

    And life isn’t fair. There will always be those with more advantages than others. From my experiences, we all have advantages in one area or another.

    [The vast majority of Children of Color go to “public” schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980′s. The wealthy “whites” can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.]

    This is why we should get rid of public schools. Read John Taylor Gatto. Public schools were never meant to educate the poor and illiterate or create a “level playing field.” They were meant to turn children into the mental and moral equivalent of manageable barn animals and to organize society according to the whims of our elite overlords.

    I would support any law that does away with compulsory attendance laws. I would also support any system that allows poor parents to send their children to any school of their choice (vouchers, charters).

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  104. TheJester says:

    The disturbing gaps in ACT scores between Whites and Blacks, Whites and Amerindians, and Whites and Hispanics just proves again that White society has failed the disadvantaged students in the sub-performing groups. We’re not trying hard enough. More attention needs to be paid to affirmative action and more money needs to be spent reducing disparate impacts wherever they are found.

    Equal opportunity and equality under the law be damned! The government needs to officially and openly mandate “equal outcomes” for all citizens as a fundamental human right regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, national origin, etc. … and I might mention, cost.

    Oh wait, this isn’t a new concept! It’s been a long, multi-generational fight. Karl Marx best captured the idea in his Critique of the Gotha Program in 1875:

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”.

    Ok, perhaps it’s time to make this new national, progressive purpose clear by replacing our national motto, E Pluribus Unum, with (from the Marx’ original),

    “Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen.”

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  105. dr kill says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Anyone who has been to grad school with people so annointed understands not all doctors are equal.
     
    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.

    You may find this interesting- coming soon to a hospital near you. Third world medicine.

    http://www.unz.com/article/bad-medicine-the-sickening-truth-about-britains-foreign-doctors/

    Read More
    • Replies: @cthulhu


    ...coming soon to a hospital near you. Third world medicine.

     

    One advantage of living in a coastal enclave - it is easy to find really good doctors. Before moving here 15+ years ago, I lived in a large cosmopolitan city in the mid-south-west part of the US, and there were plenty of good doctors, but after moving to coastal SoCal, good doctors are a dime a dozen, and really really good doctors are not hard to find. And regardless of ethnicity, they all speak good English and were educated at top US med schools and did their residency in top US hospitals.
  106. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing.
     
    It's not. Before we decided that formal education of legal adults was some kind of public good very few people went to college. For half the population, formal schooling should be over by age 16.

    These crusades roll out continuously with the same results. Common Core math is particularly insidious, literally Steve's ball-peen hammer method: the bright students bog down in the verbal jiu-jitsu in the hopes that the dim students will stumble into a "correct" answer and equalize the outcomes. Reform after reform, and the Pareto optimum for post-secondary education remains stubbornly fixed around the IQ distributions for various groups. Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.

    college should be reserved for the really smart and/or the really rich. Most jobs should be learned on the job.

    Read More
  107. I have been teaching in an AP program in a major Canadian city for the past twenty years. These results are consistent with my experience in that program. I am obviously a less effective teacher with “underserved” students.

    Read More
  108. Neuday says:
    @Spud Boy
    Underserved Learners?

    Wow, it's hard to keep track of all these new terms.

    Underserved Learners?

    It’s not like they want more learning but nobody will serve them; it’s that they’re already full and can’t learn another bite.

    Read More
  109. @Michelle
    Here is an interesting video, purporting to show African American college students attacking a pregnant Popeye's Chicken Manager and in return getting a beat down by fed up Popeye's employees who have, no doubt, seen it all. Apparently, the young college coeds were unable to offer a coherent explanation of what they wished to order from the menu and we're asked to step inside the establishment in order to try and sort out the difficultly. Literally, these college students are incapable of ordering fast food at a drive through window!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/popeyes-employees-caught-camera-fighting-customers-article-1.3477625

    Notice how the Negro males present just stand around like jackasses instead of breaking up the fight, restraining the aggressors, etc. (as a typical white man would in such a situation) – of course, for all I know the Negroes are on the side of the aggressors, but in that case why not at least intervene once defenders begin to take back their own…?

    Indeed, I’ve seen many such videos wherein the Negro male laughs, cheers, and encourages females to beat each other. Classy. Manly.

    Read More
  110. persistent achievement gaps between students who face disadvantages and those who don’t.

    They misspelled “differences in IQ”

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  111. @F YI
    Did you ever reply to Sineruse's very informative comments (on Asian underperformance) at the link below? It looks like he completely demolished the Han supremacist line that you push and answered your complaints in great detail.

    http://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/consanguinity-and-islam-and-democracy/#comment-15702

    Hi Sineruse!

    Wow a comment I left 5 years ago received a reply six months after the fact. You didn’t so much as “demolish” my line as much as double down on the lying. I provided the direct links to the source material that you referred to. Anyone is free to check the data for themselves as to who is misrepresenting the facts.

    For example, you wrote: “The Duke study had extremely detailed controls for course selection, as I just explained in some detail”

    Actual paper authors wrote page 3, paragraph 2: “There are, however, at least two reasons to be skeptical of Figure 1: variance and course selection.” and ” Note that these averages do not take into account selection into courses”

    That is some chutzpah right there, to lie so flagrantly operating under the assumption that no one would actually take the time to double check the source.

    One additional point that I feel must be reiterated but that Sineruse ignored is that these categories are for a broad “Asian” and not specifically “Chinese”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @F YI
    You guessed wrong on my identity. Be that as it may, whatever "analysis" is posted here, I will copy to the original thread at HBDchick, with my comments, to keep the full record of discussion in one place. As you say, it helps readers draw their own conclusions, which are pretty entertaining.

    I provided the direct links to the source material that you referred to. Anyone is free to check the data for themselves as to who is misrepresenting the facts.
     
    That's a fun game. Let's play it here and see who, indeed, is misrepresenting the source material. Hint: it's not Sineruse, and it speaks Chinese.

    [Sineruse:] “The Duke study had extremely detailed controls for course selection, as I just explained in some detail”

    Actual paper (http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/grades_4.0.pdf ) authors wrote page 3, paragraph 2: “There are, however, at least two reasons to be skeptical of Figure 1: variance and course selection.” and ” Note that these averages do not take into account selection into courses”
     

    That's in the introduction to the paper, explaining why the authors decided to make the "extremely detailed controls for course selection" that Sineruse already, and correctly, explained. Had you read the paper, you would see that he was probably referring to the negative Asian numbers in Table 6 (page 15) not the graph in Figure 1 from the intro. Table 6 uses the previous 10 pages of "controls for course selection" and shows Asian underperformance measured by the authors' adjusted version of class rank.

    That is some chutzpah right there, to lie so flagrantly operating under the assumption that no one would actually take the time to double check the source.
     
    Double checking the source shows that Sineruse was right about the paper and also right about "flailing rebuttals from China Pride warriors", who fail even when they do read the sources. It's almost as if they were underperforming live on the internet, and using words like chutzpah and liar to describe the people who exposed their failure.

    One additional point that I feel must be reiterated but that Sineruse ignored is that these categories are for a broad “Asian” and not specifically “Chinese”.
     
    Wouldn't that make his point stronger? The "Asian" effects that come from Chinese and Koreans pushing their children harder are being diluted when less pushy groups are included in the "Asian" category. The Chinese underperformance is bigger than the "Asian" underperformance, and the Chinese immigrant underperformance bigger than the Chinese-American one.
  112. Brutusale says:
    @Ed
    I wonder if DuBois had hard data at the time when he came up with "the talented tenth"?

    Of course he had hard data. It’s called life among his racial brethren.

    Read More
  113. Jack D says:
    @Alice
    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate "college readiness" scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That's a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can't read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it's hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

    In de future America, all dem pikins dey be bove average.

    We are sending way too many people to college who are not really college material because we don’t really have jobs for them in the economy either.

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  114. Brutusale says:
    @Duke of Qin
    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it's kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren't actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    I give you the test that Massachusetts has been giving students for 20+ years, the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System.

    http://www.doe.mass.edu/mcas/results.html

    He’s the whiny Bullshitpedia article highlighting how it hurts the feelings of the little snowflakes when they find out how much dumber they are than they thought.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Comprehensive_Assessment_System

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    The University of Massachusetts Donahue Institute, a research arm of the University President's Office, wrote in 2001 that the MCAS do not measure school or district performance because 84% of the variation in the scores across schools and districts is due to socioeconomic factors. In other words, as the Donahue Institute reported, ″One of the consistent findings of this research is that demography explains most of the variation in test scores from district to district. Results from this year's research are similar to results from last year's work: about 84% of the variation in test results (scores for all of the test-taking students for the nine MCAS tests combined) is explained by demography. That is why Weston and Wayland have high MCAS scores and why Holyoke and Brockton have low MCAS scores. Thus, though demography is not destiny, it sets a strong tendency." In the end, wrote the Donahue Report, the MCAS scores tell more about a district's real estate values than the quality of its schools.″[12]
     
    I wonder how the explanatory power of race and SES compares if you create a model including both.
  115. bomag says:
    @Colleen Pater
    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?

    …how will any of these turn out differently this time?

    More reality won’t be changing public policy anytime soon. I’m sure more money will be allocated; and shaming will continue for those who dare say the emperor has no clothes.

    Read More
  116. @AB-

    I look forward to Tiny’s ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn’t until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny’s comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site……cite your sources, Petit Canard!
     
    LOL!!! That was about the longest post she ever made. So I was wondering if someone else wrote it for her.

    Turns out, I was right! LOL!

    Getting back on topic, Shaker Heights, Ohio, is an expensive suburb of Cleveland. The negro parents (the talented tenth, you got to be making a 90th percentile income to live there) were complaining to the school district that compared to the white kids, their discharges weren't on the Honor Roll, weren't getting high grades, not getting high SAT scores, and not doing well in college.

    School district hires John Ogbu, noted African scholar from UC Berkeley, to investigate and report.

    He interviews the parents, the discharge, the teachers, the administration.

    Said the problem was the negro parents and discharge are almost completely at fault; that the parents don't insist their discharges study and apply themselves. And the discharges chided the other negros as 'acting white' if they made an effort to learn.

    Of course this didn't go over too well among the 'talented tenth'.....I think the school district spent (wasted) mucho bucks on programs...

    Here's a Harvard review of the book Ogbu wrote about it...a decent, even handed review. At least as even handed as someone at Harvard could do....

    http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-74-issue-4/herarticle/_38


    This all started about 15 years ago.

    I remember reading about that Cleveland study years ago and one thing still stays with me. That is, the black parents considered their kids to be “empty vessels” and that it was the job of the schools to pour knowledge into them. No effort was required on the part of the parents or kids.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is part of the "cargo cult" mentality. Many blacks want to go right to the end result and skip the hard work part. They don't see a fine house, automobile, degree, etc. as the reward that you reap for many years of hard work - they are just the products of luck or magic. In their view, whites don't get these things thru hard work either - they achieve them through "white privilege" so they don't deserve them more than blacks do. When good fortune comes to you, you should "spread the wealth" in Obama's words. This is how it works in an African village or family - if anyone strikes money he is supposed to share it and not hoard it for himself.
  117. @Colleen Pater
    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?

    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?

    Of course–your point–nothing is going to turn out “differently this time”.

    In fact the situation with blacks is probably getting a bit worse. College educated black women have miserable fertility. It is hard for them to find a black husband to “marry up” to. Hard generally given the anemic academic performance and generally crappy behavior of black men. But then maybe worse by the “Is Love Colorblind” issue of the best black men marrying out.

    So “black” blacks are probably getting dumber and less conscientious. This is somewhat mitigated by white genes streaming into the “black” population Obama-style. So probably what you’re getting is the black population is “spreading”–the bulk of blacks getting worse, and a “colored” much lighter overclass growing and feasting on AA goodies.

    ~~

    The bottom line here. You need eugenic fertility.

    The #1 problem–far and away–in the West is immigration. That is destroying the West.

    But even without it there is a serious problem from modernity and the welfare state creating dysgenic selection. It is just biologically “wrong” to put in a welfare state without including some sort of fertility “penalty” for the incompetents so that the welfare state does not break normal eugenic selection that keeps a population fit and healthy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D

    a “colored” much lighter overclass growing and feasting on AA goodies.
     
    This is exactly what is going on. The AA goodies that are supposed to be set aside for American slave descendants as in effect reparations for slavery and Jim Crow rarely go to them, especially at high end schools, because the # of slave descendants that are intellectually equipped to make it thru a place like Harvard even if they are let in under AA in vanishingly small. Instead, high end AA goes mainly to a few groups who have very little to do with American ghetto blacks:

    1. Traditional "talented tenth" American black elites - these are the light skinned blacks descended from the mulatto house slaves and freedmen like the Hemings family of Monticello. They separated themselves, socially and genetically, from the general slave population even before slavery ended.

    2. Modern mixed breed types like Obama. They are usually raised by their white (often Jewish) mothers because black fathers tend not to stick around. Key and Peele for example.

    3. Caribbean mulattoes - the whole Bajan mafia that Obama surrounded himself with.

    4. Nigerian Igbos - ironically these are the one group who are even blacker than American blacks (groups 1 to 3 tend to be 50% or more, sometimes a lot more, white) , but they have little genetic overlap - they are the ones who were SELLING the tribes that ended up in America to the Arab slave traders who would bring them into the slave ports.

    Why any of these groups should benefit from AA set asides for American slave descendants escapes me completely.
  118. Jack D says:
    @Autochthon
    Poor verbal skills among Hindoos are not at all surprising to anyone enduring them on a daily basis. I cannot begin to tell you how many aspire to someday be a "principle engineer" and of their complete disdain for articles...all despite being (ostensibly) taught English from childhood.

    Obviously you can’t go by Indians born overseas. Even Indians that profess to be native English speakers almost always speak it as a 2nd language. Grammatical errors are common in non-native English speakers, especially if they are coming from a language with a very different grammatical structure. Hindi lacks a definite article and doesn’t use indefinite articles much either so errors concerning articles are to be expected.

    In general, I think that S. Asians assimilate less than E. Asians after a couple of generations. E. Asians are more interested in assimilation – most E. Asians in America give their kids English first names on their birth certificates (even if they also have Asian names that they use at home). Whereas S. Asians almost always continue to give their kids Asian names (if you look at the list of the spelling bee winners since 2008, they are all S. Asian and not a single one has an Americanized first name). I also get the feeling that E. Asians intermarry with whites more often.

    Generally speaking, verbal and mathematical ability are correlated with each other. E. Asians tend to be very strong mathematically so their verbal abilities seem weaker by comparison to their math skills (esp. 1st generation non-native English speakers – going from E. Asian languages to English is a bitch because they are so different). But this is only in comparison to themselves. Compared to the general population, they are strong in verbal too. For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high.

    Read More
    • Replies: @keuril

    For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high
     
    Certainly one would expect MIT students to be better at math than verbal, but a 750 verbal (99th percentile) is actually slightly better than a 780 math (98th percentile). The problem is that the math test is too simple, with maybe half of MIT students getting an 800. On the 2400 scale “old” SAT, you would typically lose 30 points for one careless mistake, so there is not much difference between a 770 and an 800. Thus the more rigorous SAT Math II Subject Test is also used at selective tech-oriented schools, but again, way too many students get perfect scores (supposedly some years all entering freshmen at CalTech got 800’s on the Math II Subject Test). The most rigorous widely available standardized math test is the AP Calc BC test, but again, something like half of takers nationally get a perfect 5. MIT could probably fill its freshman class several times over with applicants who got perfect scores on SAT Reasoning Math, SAT Math II Subject Test, and AP Calc BC.

    So, while stats on standardized tests may make for interesting discussion along other lines, they are pretty useless for distinguishing between applicants at the most selective colleges.
    , @AnotherDad
    Thanks Jack.

    I was going to respond to Autochthon myself. Hindus don't have poor verbal skills. They generally have--1st generation--highly superior English verbal skills compared to other immigrants, because of at least some English language exposure and schooling in India. However, expecting them to speak like Americans is ridiculous.

    A) English is the first language of almost none of them.

    B) They have their own "Indian English" over there.

    C) A lot of them did not go to English medium schools until college level. (Although this is apparently changing, as the demand from all is to get their kids English proficient.)

    My best friend from physics grad school has a wife--smart gal, successful here as IT manager here in the states. But she went to Marathi medium schools. Marathi doesn't have a definite article--like our "the"--so when she arrived 30 back she was perfectly easy to communicate with but her English language speech would be full of all these errors missing "the" where we'd put it in. (She's does 99% fine American English now--and is a Trump voter--but if excited/stressed she can start dropping articles.)

    I'd be hard pressed to have done better if i'd packed up and planted myself in some foreign country when I was 25. I'm sure the natives would still know I was a born+bred American.

    ~~~

    These points about 2nd, 3rd generation versus East Asians seem pretty accurate. Most 2nd generation Indians I run into are pretty darn American. But Indians seem to stick with their culture and each other somewhat more and have slower overall assimilation toward being generic Americans than East Asians.
    , @Autochthon

    Obviously you can’t go by Indians born overseas
     
    Obviously? Why not? Does verbal aptitude in your view only apply to one's first language? It has no impact upon one's abilities to learn additional languages? What would you like me to call one's capacity to master additional languages, then? Language is arbitrary, so I don't mind, so long as we define our terms. Let's call it blarg. Hindoos have excellent verbal abilities but poor blarg. Better?

    AnotherDad goes on to mention Hindoo languages which lack articles. Well, English lacks ubiquitous genders, but I don't run around using only the masculine to refer to females or say shit like el mujere or la hombre. I guess I have strong verbal skills and good blarg, because, hey, the Hindoos I know who cannot use articles have lived in what used to be the U.S.A. for thirty years and more, whereas I learned Spanish in a university and, save a brief stint in Spain, I've never lived in a nation where Spanish is the predominant language ... except Mexifornia. Say, maybe that's the thing: I'll bet all these Hindoos speak excellent Spanish! I'm going to put a clothes-pin on my nose Monday and try to chat one up in Spanish.

    In any event I concede my own points are anecdotal, but the whole thing began with a discussion of Hindoos' verbal aptitudes (or blarg) not being great shakes when measured by empirical exams.

    I do agree with your point about Orientals assimilating more than Hindoos, and the reasons therefore. My theory is Hindoos do well in spelling bees because they are good at rote memorisation and practiced at writing preposterous strings of characters like Kailashchandra. Actual verbal skills and blarg rely far more on conceptually mastering abstract principles far more than rote memorisation.
  119. Jack D says:
    @Jim Don Bob
    I remember reading about that Cleveland study years ago and one thing still stays with me. That is, the black parents considered their kids to be "empty vessels" and that it was the job of the schools to pour knowledge into them. No effort was required on the part of the parents or kids.

    This is part of the “cargo cult” mentality. Many blacks want to go right to the end result and skip the hard work part. They don’t see a fine house, automobile, degree, etc. as the reward that you reap for many years of hard work – they are just the products of luck or magic. In their view, whites don’t get these things thru hard work either – they achieve them through “white privilege” so they don’t deserve them more than blacks do. When good fortune comes to you, you should “spread the wealth” in Obama’s words. This is how it works in an African village or family – if anyone strikes money he is supposed to share it and not hoard it for himself.

    Read More
  120. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing.
     
    It's not. Before we decided that formal education of legal adults was some kind of public good very few people went to college. For half the population, formal schooling should be over by age 16.

    These crusades roll out continuously with the same results. Common Core math is particularly insidious, literally Steve's ball-peen hammer method: the bright students bog down in the verbal jiu-jitsu in the hopes that the dim students will stumble into a "correct" answer and equalize the outcomes. Reform after reform, and the Pareto optimum for post-secondary education remains stubbornly fixed around the IQ distributions for various groups. Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.

    Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.

    That is not going to happen. There is too much money in public education, hundreds of billions. The best way to access that money, by private industry in particular, is to offer “solutions” that will prepare every child for college.

    Bill Gates (Common Core) and Mark Zuckerberg have no interest in actually hiring blacks and Hispanics, but they are both actively involved in public education in the US and Africa because of the money they can make selling software and collecting data.

    The Walton Foundation (Walmart) is heavily involved in public charter schools in order to create a more compliant workforce. Recently the Walton family built a private school in Bentonville, Arkansas, Walmart headquarters, so that the children of the company’s executives don’t have to go to public school.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gda
    "The best way to access that money, by private industry in particular, is to offer “solutions” that will prepare every child for college.'

    Here I was thinking we had finally achieved the ideal and were all living in Lake Wobegon - every child above average.

    But instead it's all about raking in the loot. And in order to do so you have to dumb it down - everyone is special, so they all get trophies.

  121. Jim says: • Website
    @Father O'Hara
    9 percent of Blacks et al are ready for college? OK,let that 9 percent go to college!

    Assuming an average IQ of 85 and a standard deviation of 15 an IQ of 110 would be about the 95th percentile of US blacks and an IQ of 105 would be about the 90th percentile. Probably college makes sense mostly for individuals with IQ’s of 110 and above. About half of the 9% of college ready blacks probably are 110 and above in IQ and will benefit from a college education. About half of the “college-ready” blacks probably have IQ’s in the 105-110 range and are somewhat marginal for a college education although they might well benefit from a community or junior college.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    About half of the “college-ready” blacks probably have IQ’s in the 105-110 range and are somewhat marginal for a college education although they might well benefit from a community or junior college.
     
    They would be better off learning a trade. We will always need electricians, HVAC guys, etc.
  122. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    but then you would have a permanent violent underclass of a particular race who are too stupid to understand how stupid and violent they are. so how would you deal with that this time? welfare? how much? slavery? apartheid? how will any of these turn out differently this time?
     
    Of course--your point--nothing is going to turn out "differently this time".

    In fact the situation with blacks is probably getting a bit worse. College educated black women have miserable fertility. It is hard for them to find a black husband to "marry up" to. Hard generally given the anemic academic performance and generally crappy behavior of black men. But then maybe worse by the "Is Love Colorblind" issue of the best black men marrying out.

    So "black" blacks are probably getting dumber and less conscientious. This is somewhat mitigated by white genes streaming into the "black" population Obama-style. So probably what you're getting is the black population is "spreading"--the bulk of blacks getting worse, and a "colored" much lighter overclass growing and feasting on AA goodies.

    ~~

    The bottom line here. You need eugenic fertility.

    The #1 problem--far and away--in the West is immigration. That is destroying the West.

    But even without it there is a serious problem from modernity and the welfare state creating dysgenic selection. It is just biologically "wrong" to put in a welfare state without including some sort of fertility "penalty" for the incompetents so that the welfare state does not break normal eugenic selection that keeps a population fit and healthy.

    a “colored” much lighter overclass growing and feasting on AA goodies.

    This is exactly what is going on. The AA goodies that are supposed to be set aside for American slave descendants as in effect reparations for slavery and Jim Crow rarely go to them, especially at high end schools, because the # of slave descendants that are intellectually equipped to make it thru a place like Harvard even if they are let in under AA in vanishingly small. Instead, high end AA goes mainly to a few groups who have very little to do with American ghetto blacks:

    1. Traditional “talented tenth” American black elites – these are the light skinned blacks descended from the mulatto house slaves and freedmen like the Hemings family of Monticello. They separated themselves, socially and genetically, from the general slave population even before slavery ended.

    2. Modern mixed breed types like Obama. They are usually raised by their white (often Jewish) mothers because black fathers tend not to stick around. Key and Peele for example.

    3. Caribbean mulattoes – the whole Bajan mafia that Obama surrounded himself with.

    4. Nigerian Igbos – ironically these are the one group who are even blacker than American blacks (groups 1 to 3 tend to be 50% or more, sometimes a lot more, white) , but they have little genetic overlap – they are the ones who were SELLING the tribes that ended up in America to the Arab slave traders who would bring them into the slave ports.

    Why any of these groups should benefit from AA set asides for American slave descendants escapes me completely.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ed
    Your characterization of Nigerian Igbo is extremely off.
  123. gda says:
    @Triumph104

    Hopefully the scam ends as the geneticists continue to connect the dots.
     
    That is not going to happen. There is too much money in public education, hundreds of billions. The best way to access that money, by private industry in particular, is to offer "solutions" that will prepare every child for college.

    Bill Gates (Common Core) and Mark Zuckerberg have no interest in actually hiring blacks and Hispanics, but they are both actively involved in public education in the US and Africa because of the money they can make selling software and collecting data.

    The Walton Foundation (Walmart) is heavily involved in public charter schools in order to create a more compliant workforce. Recently the Walton family built a private school in Bentonville, Arkansas, Walmart headquarters, so that the children of the company's executives don't have to go to public school.

    “The best way to access that money, by private industry in particular, is to offer “solutions” that will prepare every child for college.’

    Here I was thinking we had finally achieved the ideal and were all living in Lake Wobegon – every child above average.

    But instead it’s all about raking in the loot. And in order to do so you have to dumb it down – everyone is special, so they all get trophies.

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  124. Truther says:
    @Duke of Qin
    That type of information is extremely rare, but there is actually one very good source for it, even if it is a few years out of date.

    California runs a massive standardized testing programming pretty much covering every single student from grade 2 to 11. Unfortunately it has become less informative over the years because they are showing less and less information. The CSTAR test was replaced by the CAASP test in 2014, but even as early as 2013, they started to truncate the data and no longer collected scores by specific ethnicity. This data is probably the most reliable of it's kind anywhere because it ran for over a decade and has huge representative sample size (The vast majority of school age children in California) without any selection bias of optional tests such as the SAT or ACT.

    You can search for each particular ethnicity you want here by selecting for group (ethnicity) and then subgroup for the specific ethnicity you are looking for.

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/SearchPanel.aspx

    Scores for Asian Indian students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=133

    Scores for Cambodian (Khmer) students

    http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2012/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=2012&lstTestType=C&lstCounty=&lstDistrict=&lstSchool=&lstGroup=5&lstSubGroup=135

    One of the interesting discoveries of the data is that Asian Indians aren't actually stronger verbally than Northeast Asians, despite them being much more selected IQ wise in immigration. To the contrary, they are modestly weaker, with an interesting trend in that the verbal gap actually seems to grow larger as you move up the age cohorts. Chinese/Korean 7 year olds are only slightly stronger in English language facility by the 2nd grade (age 7) but are significantly stronger by the 11th grade (age 17).

    Interesting website. I did a quick comparison of the various “Asian” groups and here’s what I found:

    1) The Northeast Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) and Asian Indians score far higher than the Southeast Asians (Filipino, Cambodian, Laotian, Hmong), with the Vietnamese somewhere between those 2 groups. The “Asian” average is dragged down by the latter group.

    2) The various Asian groups score in roughly the following order:

    Chinese, Korean >> Japanese, Asian Indian >> Vietnamese >> Cambodian > Filipino > Laotian > Hmong.

    3) The lowest scoring Asian group, the Hmongs, still score higher than Hispanics and blacks in almost all subjects.

    The Japanese are probably the smallest group among the top 4, most likely mostly native born. The other 3 groups Chinese, Korean and Indian are much more recent immigrant groups.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jim
    All the psychometric data show that Northeast Asians exceed Northwest Europeans by about one-third of a standard deviation. Southeast Asians score about one-half of a standard deviation below Northwest Europeans. Southeast Asians do score however about a third of a standard deviation above the world average.
    , @Triumph104
    Whites score about the same as Filipinos.

    Based on your data, whites score below Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Asian Indian, Vietnamese and Cambodian.
  125. cthulhu says:
    @dr kill
    You may find this interesting- coming soon to a hospital near you. Third world medicine.

    http://www.unz.com/article/bad-medicine-the-sickening-truth-about-britains-foreign-doctors/

    …coming soon to a hospital near you. Third world medicine.

    One advantage of living in a coastal enclave – it is easy to find really good doctors. Before moving here 15+ years ago, I lived in a large cosmopolitan city in the mid-south-west part of the US, and there were plenty of good doctors, but after moving to coastal SoCal, good doctors are a dime a dozen, and really really good doctors are not hard to find. And regardless of ethnicity, they all speak good English and were educated at top US med schools and did their residency in top US hospitals.

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  126. LOL. That Washington Post article is an exercise in obfuscation. All the talk about students who suffer from 1, 2 or 3 “undeserved disadvantages” is meant to obscure the fact that race explains virtually the entire disparity between those who meet the preparedness standard, and those who don’t. The 2nd paragraph says:

    Scores from the ACT show that just 9 percent of students in the class of 2017 who came from low-income families, whose parents did not go to college, and who identify as black, Hispanic, American Indian or Pacific Islander are strongly ready for college.

    “Strongly ready for college” means they beat the benchmark in 3 out of 4 categories.

    Looking at Table 3.3, 11% of blacks passed the hardest benchmark – Science. From that, one can extrapolate that slightly less than 11% would have passed 3 out of 4 categories (because some may have passed Science but failed another). That gets you down to the 9% figure they referenced.

    Basically, you can ignore income or parental education. Only 9% of blacks are college ready. Period. End of sentence. Of course, they can’t say that so they invent this convoluted method of classifying “undeserved disadvantages”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Triumph104
    You are right about them obfuscating the facts. In 2015, ACT released a report listing the percentage of blacks that met 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 benchmarks. The pdf for the report is still up but the pages are now blank.

    http://equityinlearning.act.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2015-african-american.pdf

    However, blacks do much worse than you predicted. Blacks ALWAYS underperform every disadvantaged category. In 2015, I posted the data in a comment section:

    Blacks (all income levels combined)
    62% met 0 benchmarks
    17% met 1 benchmark
    10% met 2 benchmarks
    5% met 3 benchmarks
    5% met all 4 benchmarks

    Low-income (all ethnicities combined)
    50% met 0 benchmarks
    18% met 1 benchmark
    13% met 2 benchmarks
    9% met 3 benchmarks
    11% met all 4 benchmarks
     

    http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/black-students-are-among-the-least-prepared-for-college-report-finds/102435
    , @Triumph104
    I reread your post and you did say 3 out of 4 benchmarks, not all four --- you are indeed correct.
  127. Clearly the ACT must be racist, especially with math. Or something…

    I know, the problem is that the teachers are trying to teach the NAM students, but they are not learning. The simple answer is to demand that the teachers learn them. Problem solved….

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  128. res says:
    @Brutusale
    I give you the test that Massachusetts has been giving students for 20+ years, the Massachusetts Comprehensive Assessment System.

    http://www.doe.mass.edu/mcas/results.html

    He's the whiny Bullshitpedia article highlighting how it hurts the feelings of the little snowflakes when they find out how much dumber they are than they thought.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Comprehensive_Assessment_System

    The University of Massachusetts Donahue Institute, a research arm of the University President’s Office, wrote in 2001 that the MCAS do not measure school or district performance because 84% of the variation in the scores across schools and districts is due to socioeconomic factors. In other words, as the Donahue Institute reported, ″One of the consistent findings of this research is that demography explains most of the variation in test scores from district to district. Results from this year’s research are similar to results from last year’s work: about 84% of the variation in test results (scores for all of the test-taking students for the nine MCAS tests combined) is explained by demography. That is why Weston and Wayland have high MCAS scores and why Holyoke and Brockton have low MCAS scores. Thus, though demography is not destiny, it sets a strong tendency.” In the end, wrote the Donahue Report, the MCAS scores tell more about a district’s real estate values than the quality of its schools.″[12]

    I wonder how the explanatory power of race and SES compares if you create a model including both.

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  129. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Yeah, yeah. I get it about how bad the schools are but when all is said and done, there’s little that can be done by any school when the attendees (if they bother to go to school at all) are by and large a priori dysfunctional– more interested in munching on Skittles, drinking Ripple, shooting juice and acting like feral cats than cracking a book. When some functionally illiterate brood sow has five kids by five different fathers, what can be expected of a school? When Moynihan wrote his report back in the mid-60s black illegitimacy was about 25%. Now it’s closer to 75%. I leave the reasons for this behavior to others to comment upon, but as far as the school system is concerned the sow’s ear/silk purse analogy is sadly appropriate .

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  130. Ed says:
    @dr kill
    WVU, the State University of West Virginia , doesn't require applicants to submit an SAT score. Make of that what you will.

    That’s incorrect. In fact they have a floor on scores one must meet in order to be admitted.

    https://admissions.wvu.edu/how-to-apply/first-time-freshmen#anchor-freshmanreqs

    West Virginia residents: must have at least a 2.0 cumulative high school GPA and either a super scored ACT composite of 19 or a super scored Math and Critical Reading SAT total of 910 (pre-March 2016 test sitting) or a super scored Evidence Based Reading/Writing and Math Section score of 990 (post-March 2016 test sitting). SAT scores will not be super scored across pre-March 2016 scores and post-March 2016 scores.
    Nonresidents: must have at least a 2.5 cumulative high school GPA and either a super scored ACT composite of 21 or a super scored Math and Critical Reading SAT total of 990 (pre-March 2016 test sitting) or a super scored Evidence Based Reading/Writing and Math Section score of 1070 (post-March 2016 test sitting). SAT scores will not be super scored across pre-March 2016 sittings and post-March sittings 2016.

    West Virginia is trying to get students from neighboring MD that are denied admission into MD-College Park. I think they even give them a break in tuition something in between in-state/out of state. It’s a pretty good school, good engineering/mining program.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    This is not exactly a high bar. 910 is the kind of score you need on the coasts to get into a third rate teacher's college, not the flagship state university. How did WV end up with such a bottom of the barrel set of white people?
  131. keuril says:
    @Jack D
    Obviously you can't go by Indians born overseas. Even Indians that profess to be native English speakers almost always speak it as a 2nd language. Grammatical errors are common in non-native English speakers, especially if they are coming from a language with a very different grammatical structure. Hindi lacks a definite article and doesn't use indefinite articles much either so errors concerning articles are to be expected.

    In general, I think that S. Asians assimilate less than E. Asians after a couple of generations. E. Asians are more interested in assimilation - most E. Asians in America give their kids English first names on their birth certificates (even if they also have Asian names that they use at home). Whereas S. Asians almost always continue to give their kids Asian names (if you look at the list of the spelling bee winners since 2008, they are all S. Asian and not a single one has an Americanized first name). I also get the feeling that E. Asians intermarry with whites more often.

    Generally speaking, verbal and mathematical ability are correlated with each other. E. Asians tend to be very strong mathematically so their verbal abilities seem weaker by comparison to their math skills (esp. 1st generation non-native English speakers - going from E. Asian languages to English is a bitch because they are so different). But this is only in comparison to themselves. Compared to the general population, they are strong in verbal too. For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high.

    For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high

    Certainly one would expect MIT students to be better at math than verbal, but a 750 verbal (99th percentile) is actually slightly better than a 780 math (98th percentile). The problem is that the math test is too simple, with maybe half of MIT students getting an 800. On the 2400 scale “old” SAT, you would typically lose 30 points for one careless mistake, so there is not much difference between a 770 and an 800. Thus the more rigorous SAT Math II Subject Test is also used at selective tech-oriented schools, but again, way too many students get perfect scores (supposedly some years all entering freshmen at CalTech got 800’s on the Math II Subject Test). The most rigorous widely available standardized math test is the AP Calc BC test, but again, something like half of takers nationally get a perfect 5. MIT could probably fill its freshman class several times over with applicants who got perfect scores on SAT Reasoning Math, SAT Math II Subject Test, and AP Calc BC.

    So, while stats on standardized tests may make for interesting discussion along other lines, they are pretty useless for distinguishing between applicants at the most selective colleges.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Advanced Placement test scoring is currently from 1 to 5. It should go up to 6 or 7, especially on the harder STEM tests like chemistry where something like 60% right will get you a 5 at present.

    As testing agencies switch to computerized adaptive testing, like they did with the GRE and AFQT, it becomes much easier to throw in more hard questions in response to the test-taker getting all the easy questions right.

  132. Ed says:
    @Jack D

    a “colored” much lighter overclass growing and feasting on AA goodies.
     
    This is exactly what is going on. The AA goodies that are supposed to be set aside for American slave descendants as in effect reparations for slavery and Jim Crow rarely go to them, especially at high end schools, because the # of slave descendants that are intellectually equipped to make it thru a place like Harvard even if they are let in under AA in vanishingly small. Instead, high end AA goes mainly to a few groups who have very little to do with American ghetto blacks:

    1. Traditional "talented tenth" American black elites - these are the light skinned blacks descended from the mulatto house slaves and freedmen like the Hemings family of Monticello. They separated themselves, socially and genetically, from the general slave population even before slavery ended.

    2. Modern mixed breed types like Obama. They are usually raised by their white (often Jewish) mothers because black fathers tend not to stick around. Key and Peele for example.

    3. Caribbean mulattoes - the whole Bajan mafia that Obama surrounded himself with.

    4. Nigerian Igbos - ironically these are the one group who are even blacker than American blacks (groups 1 to 3 tend to be 50% or more, sometimes a lot more, white) , but they have little genetic overlap - they are the ones who were SELLING the tribes that ended up in America to the Arab slave traders who would bring them into the slave ports.

    Why any of these groups should benefit from AA set asides for American slave descendants escapes me completely.

    Your characterization of Nigerian Igbo is extremely off.

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  133. Jack D says:

    Whoever they are, their history is entirely separate from that of American blacks and they no more deserve AA than do Norwegians.

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  134. @Jim
    Assuming an average IQ of 85 and a standard deviation of 15 an IQ of 110 would be about the 95th percentile of US blacks and an IQ of 105 would be about the 90th percentile. Probably college makes sense mostly for individuals with IQ's of 110 and above. About half of the 9% of college ready blacks probably are 110 and above in IQ and will benefit from a college education. About half of the "college-ready" blacks probably have IQ's in the 105-110 range and are somewhat marginal for a college education although they might well benefit from a community or junior college.

    About half of the “college-ready” blacks probably have IQ’s in the 105-110 range and are somewhat marginal for a college education although they might well benefit from a community or junior college.

    They would be better off learning a trade. We will always need electricians, HVAC guys, etc.

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  135. @keuril

    For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high
     
    Certainly one would expect MIT students to be better at math than verbal, but a 750 verbal (99th percentile) is actually slightly better than a 780 math (98th percentile). The problem is that the math test is too simple, with maybe half of MIT students getting an 800. On the 2400 scale “old” SAT, you would typically lose 30 points for one careless mistake, so there is not much difference between a 770 and an 800. Thus the more rigorous SAT Math II Subject Test is also used at selective tech-oriented schools, but again, way too many students get perfect scores (supposedly some years all entering freshmen at CalTech got 800’s on the Math II Subject Test). The most rigorous widely available standardized math test is the AP Calc BC test, but again, something like half of takers nationally get a perfect 5. MIT could probably fill its freshman class several times over with applicants who got perfect scores on SAT Reasoning Math, SAT Math II Subject Test, and AP Calc BC.

    So, while stats on standardized tests may make for interesting discussion along other lines, they are pretty useless for distinguishing between applicants at the most selective colleges.

    Advanced Placement test scoring is currently from 1 to 5. It should go up to 6 or 7, especially on the harder STEM tests like chemistry where something like 60% right will get you a 5 at present.

    As testing agencies switch to computerized adaptive testing, like they did with the GRE and AFQT, it becomes much easier to throw in more hard questions in response to the test-taker getting all the easy questions right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jack D
    6 or 7 would only make the racial disparities look worse, so don't hold your breath.

    The highest % of 5's (62%) is found on the Chinese AP exam ( AP Chinese is very difficult for Americans, not that hard for native Chinese speakers). Followed by BC Calculus (another Asian favorite). On exams not dominated by Asians (English Literature) there are only 7% 5's and the peak is at 2, indicating if anything that the exam is too hard as it is.

    High end private schools are moving away from AP courses because they find the curriculum to be too rigid (or so they say). Meanwhile, a few years ago some clown at US News decided that the best way to rank high schools was by # of AP courses offered (regardless of what scores were achieved) so you had schools gaming the rankings by offering lots of APs. Blacks especially tend to get lots of below avg. AP scores, not surprisingly.

    https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/2016-AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php
    , @AnotherDad

    As testing agencies switch to computerized adaptive testing, like they did with the GRE and AFQT, it becomes much easier to throw in more hard questions in response to the test-taker getting all the easy questions right.
     
    This is really needed for the SAT/ACT.

    They reduced the high end discriminatory power of the SAT with the score recentering in 1995. And dumbed it down further in 2005(?) in their attempts to make it more girl/NAM friendly.

    There is absolutely no reason not have an SAT/ACT that can discriminate the high end. This would allow the elite schools to identify the truly superior IQ students and enroll them even if they don't stand out in the b.s. heavy extra-curricular game.

    Adaptive testing would also reduce some of the success of the Asian test prep insanity that's been wrecking the usefulness of these tests. If you can just keep hammering away with difficult question after question you should be able to exhaust the question set they prepped with and reduce the "seen it before" advantage. Or put another way, if test prep is taking a 650 student to 720 by virtue of 10 or 12 questions many of which he's seen before, if you instead are spending pretty much the whole test time hitting him with questions in this difficulty range, you're much more likely get in questions he hasn't seen and hence derive a better take on actual aptitude. Note, like anything else in life, practice helps. (You can learn "SAT" just like you can learn "physics".) But the deeper, wider the SAT is the harder it is to ace it with mere practice.
  136. Jack D says:
    @Ed
    That's incorrect. In fact they have a floor on scores one must meet in order to be admitted.

    https://admissions.wvu.edu/how-to-apply/first-time-freshmen#anchor-freshmanreqs


    West Virginia residents: must have at least a 2.0 cumulative high school GPA and either a super scored ACT composite of 19 or a super scored Math and Critical Reading SAT total of 910 (pre-March 2016 test sitting) or a super scored Evidence Based Reading/Writing and Math Section score of 990 (post-March 2016 test sitting). SAT scores will not be super scored across pre-March 2016 scores and post-March 2016 scores.
    Nonresidents: must have at least a 2.5 cumulative high school GPA and either a super scored ACT composite of 21 or a super scored Math and Critical Reading SAT total of 990 (pre-March 2016 test sitting) or a super scored Evidence Based Reading/Writing and Math Section score of 1070 (post-March 2016 test sitting). SAT scores will not be super scored across pre-March 2016 sittings and post-March sittings 2016.
     
    West Virginia is trying to get students from neighboring MD that are denied admission into MD-College Park. I think they even give them a break in tuition something in between in-state/out of state. It's a pretty good school, good engineering/mining program.

    This is not exactly a high bar. 910 is the kind of score you need on the coasts to get into a third rate teacher’s college, not the flagship state university. How did WV end up with such a bottom of the barrel set of white people?

    Read More
  137. Truth says:
    @Twinkie

    You may have heard that old joke:

    What do you call a guy who graduates at the bottom of his class in medical school?

    Doctor.
     
    Not for long, as that guy has a high chance of losing his license. Indeed, he might have graduated from medical school, but he likely would not be board-certified, effectively making him unable to practice at most hospitals.

    The medical bar passage rate, adjusting for specialty, is about %93.

    http://www.abim.org/~/media/ABIM%20Public/Files/pdf/statistics-data/certification-pass-rates.pdf

    But hey, aren’t you guys a little, well embarrased by the grim statistic that a little over one third, of white high school grads are ready for college?

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  138. Jack D says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Advanced Placement test scoring is currently from 1 to 5. It should go up to 6 or 7, especially on the harder STEM tests like chemistry where something like 60% right will get you a 5 at present.

    As testing agencies switch to computerized adaptive testing, like they did with the GRE and AFQT, it becomes much easier to throw in more hard questions in response to the test-taker getting all the easy questions right.

    6 or 7 would only make the racial disparities look worse, so don’t hold your breath.

    The highest % of 5′s (62%) is found on the Chinese AP exam ( AP Chinese is very difficult for Americans, not that hard for native Chinese speakers). Followed by BC Calculus (another Asian favorite). On exams not dominated by Asians (English Literature) there are only 7% 5′s and the peak is at 2, indicating if anything that the exam is too hard as it is.

    High end private schools are moving away from AP courses because they find the curriculum to be too rigid (or so they say). Meanwhile, a few years ago some clown at US News decided that the best way to rank high schools was by # of AP courses offered (regardless of what scores were achieved) so you had schools gaming the rankings by offering lots of APs. Blacks especially tend to get lots of below avg. AP scores, not surprisingly.

    https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/2016-AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php

    Read More
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Meanwhile, a few years ago some clown at US News decided that the best way to rank high schools was by # of AP courses offered (regardless of what scores were achieved) so you had schools gaming the rankings by offering lots of APs.
     
    I agree he is a clown, but he wrote for Newsweek, not US News. He also wrote the book that was adapted into Stand and Deliver.
  139. Truth says:
    @Michelle
    Here is an interesting video, purporting to show African American college students attacking a pregnant Popeye's Chicken Manager and in return getting a beat down by fed up Popeye's employees who have, no doubt, seen it all. Apparently, the young college coeds were unable to offer a coherent explanation of what they wished to order from the menu and we're asked to step inside the establishment in order to try and sort out the difficultly. Literally, these college students are incapable of ordering fast food at a drive through window!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/popeyes-employees-caught-camera-fighting-customers-article-1.3477625

    Rich white companies fly their employees to country-club settings for the weekend, all-expenses included to build workplace unity like that.

    That manager should be a McKinsey consultant!

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  140. @Jack D
    Obviously you can't go by Indians born overseas. Even Indians that profess to be native English speakers almost always speak it as a 2nd language. Grammatical errors are common in non-native English speakers, especially if they are coming from a language with a very different grammatical structure. Hindi lacks a definite article and doesn't use indefinite articles much either so errors concerning articles are to be expected.

    In general, I think that S. Asians assimilate less than E. Asians after a couple of generations. E. Asians are more interested in assimilation - most E. Asians in America give their kids English first names on their birth certificates (even if they also have Asian names that they use at home). Whereas S. Asians almost always continue to give their kids Asian names (if you look at the list of the spelling bee winners since 2008, they are all S. Asian and not a single one has an Americanized first name). I also get the feeling that E. Asians intermarry with whites more often.

    Generally speaking, verbal and mathematical ability are correlated with each other. E. Asians tend to be very strong mathematically so their verbal abilities seem weaker by comparison to their math skills (esp. 1st generation non-native English speakers - going from E. Asian languages to English is a bitch because they are so different). But this is only in comparison to themselves. Compared to the general population, they are strong in verbal too. For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high.

    Thanks Jack.

    I was going to respond to Autochthon myself. Hindus don’t have poor verbal skills. They generally have–1st generation–highly superior English verbal skills compared to other immigrants, because of at least some English language exposure and schooling in India. However, expecting them to speak like Americans is ridiculous.

    A) English is the first language of almost none of them.

    B) They have their own “Indian English” over there.

    C) A lot of them did not go to English medium schools until college level. (Although this is apparently changing, as the demand from all is to get their kids English proficient.)

    My best friend from physics grad school has a wife–smart gal, successful here as IT manager here in the states. But she went to Marathi medium schools. Marathi doesn’t have a definite article–like our “the”–so when she arrived 30 back she was perfectly easy to communicate with but her English language speech would be full of all these errors missing “the” where we’d put it in. (She’s does 99% fine American English now–and is a Trump voter–but if excited/stressed she can start dropping articles.)

    I’d be hard pressed to have done better if i’d packed up and planted myself in some foreign country when I was 25. I’m sure the natives would still know I was a born+bred American.

    ~~~

    These points about 2nd, 3rd generation versus East Asians seem pretty accurate. Most 2nd generation Indians I run into are pretty darn American. But Indians seem to stick with their culture and each other somewhat more and have slower overall assimilation toward being generic Americans than East Asians.

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  141. @Tiny Duck
    Why is it surprising that students from poor families, with no tradition of higher education, attending poor schools, would be ill prepared for college? This seems abundantly obvious.

    The vast majority of Children of Color go to "public" schools, whose federal funding has been systematically slashed for over two decades starting with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy in the 1980's. The wealthy "whites" can and do use that tax savings to send their kids to private schools, while the majority of the population languish in public schools with underfunded budgets and teachers who are either underqualified or so damn dedicated they still work at teaching jobs despite being paid slightly over minimum wage.

    This is what white supremacists like. Keep the other races uneducated so whites can keep believing that they are superior because of their skin color instead of better opportunities.

    The world is not a meritocracy. Children of wealthy parents have more opportunity. Look at our commander in chief. He received a $1 million loan from his father. Much easier to start a business when you have no collateral, but can secure a small million dollar loan from daddy. Not to mention the connections. Those are truly worth more than the loan. Those equal opportunity, which increases wealth.

    And THAT is why I support affirmative action redistributive wealth programs, demographic change and the promotion of amalgamation. It is the only way to break the cycle of poverty and lack of education.

    Kansas City schools spent ~$2B (that’s billion) over 20 years to prove that black academic underachievement was only a resource issue.

    I suppose you have never heard of it. That, too, is by design.

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  142. @Steve Sailer
    Advanced Placement test scoring is currently from 1 to 5. It should go up to 6 or 7, especially on the harder STEM tests like chemistry where something like 60% right will get you a 5 at present.

    As testing agencies switch to computerized adaptive testing, like they did with the GRE and AFQT, it becomes much easier to throw in more hard questions in response to the test-taker getting all the easy questions right.

    As testing agencies switch to computerized adaptive testing, like they did with the GRE and AFQT, it becomes much easier to throw in more hard questions in response to the test-taker getting all the easy questions right.

    This is really needed for the SAT/ACT.

    They reduced the high end discriminatory power of the SAT with the score recentering in 1995. And dumbed it down further in 2005(?) in their attempts to make it more girl/NAM friendly.

    There is absolutely no reason not have an SAT/ACT that can discriminate the high end. This would allow the elite schools to identify the truly superior IQ students and enroll them even if they don’t stand out in the b.s. heavy extra-curricular game.

    Adaptive testing would also reduce some of the success of the Asian test prep insanity that’s been wrecking the usefulness of these tests. If you can just keep hammering away with difficult question after question you should be able to exhaust the question set they prepped with and reduce the “seen it before” advantage. Or put another way, if test prep is taking a 650 student to 720 by virtue of 10 or 12 questions many of which he’s seen before, if you instead are spending pretty much the whole test time hitting him with questions in this difficulty range, you’re much more likely get in questions he hasn’t seen and hence derive a better take on actual aptitude. Note, like anything else in life, practice helps. (You can learn “SAT” just like you can learn “physics”.) But the deeper, wider the SAT is the harder it is to ace it with mere practice.

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  143. @AB-

    I look forward to Tiny’s ungrammatical and illogical comments. Thus my surprise at the most recent posting: a clear and cogent flow of English that actually makes sense, whether you agree with it or not. It wasn’t until I read the comments section for the article in the Washington Post that I saw that Tiny’s comment is a cut and paste job from several posters on the WaPo site……cite your sources, Petit Canard!
     
    LOL!!! That was about the longest post she ever made. So I was wondering if someone else wrote it for her.

    Turns out, I was right! LOL!

    Getting back on topic, Shaker Heights, Ohio, is an expensive suburb of Cleveland. The negro parents (the talented tenth, you got to be making a 90th percentile income to live there) were complaining to the school district that compared to the white kids, their discharges weren't on the Honor Roll, weren't getting high grades, not getting high SAT scores, and not doing well in college.

    School district hires John Ogbu, noted African scholar from UC Berkeley, to investigate and report.

    He interviews the parents, the discharge, the teachers, the administration.

    Said the problem was the negro parents and discharge are almost completely at fault; that the parents don't insist their discharges study and apply themselves. And the discharges chided the other negros as 'acting white' if they made an effort to learn.

    Of course this didn't go over too well among the 'talented tenth'.....I think the school district spent (wasted) mucho bucks on programs...

    Here's a Harvard review of the book Ogbu wrote about it...a decent, even handed review. At least as even handed as someone at Harvard could do....

    http://hepg.org/her-home/issues/harvard-educational-review-volume-74-issue-4/herarticle/_38


    This all started about 15 years ago.

    Shaker Heights and gaps in similar UMC suburbs elsewhere–along with adoption studies–basically put a fork in the “nurture” position for the black-white IQ gap years ago. (The hardcore nurture position already being anti-science–contra to the basic idea of selection and any reasonable theory about what selection was selecting for in Europe versus Africa, given the level of civilizational accomplishment in those places.) You have black kids who come from even relatively *more* selected black families than the corresponding white families, in exactly the same schools, and they are not even close, but shockingly mediocre.

    That nurture loons still bang on and on spreading their flat-earthism is 100% politics (or if you like “religion”–the new religion of equalism and diversity).

    ~~

    There is at least one reasonable nurture variable left. Not a plausible explanation for the gap, but at least a contributing factor. And it is that black culture has developed a very hostile, oppositional culture, that scorns “white” academic behavior–basically what the Igbo guy came up with. The truth is this doesn’t really explain much. The whole “acting white” thing is more relevant to the underclass. American black talented 10th types have always put a pretty strong emphasis on education. And blacks trot off to college to get degrees at a pretty good rate. (Actually Hispanics who don’t have the hostility have a “don’t care about academics” culture that is no doubt leading to crappier academic performance than their IQs should merit.)

    The interesting thing is … the left rejects this one single plausible explanation. It is “victim blaming” and implicitly imposing “white cultural norms”. And it would be pretty hard for them to do otherwise, because the left/Jews/Democrats have spent the last 50+ precisely encouraging black hostility toward white gentiles. So they can’t readily spin around and say … “hey hostility, that’s your problem.”

    So what we get now is the even more stupid “systematic racism”, “stereotype threat” and “magic dirt” theories. We’re beyond crude “socio-economic” nurturism now and into the realm of fantasy and magic.

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  144. Jim says:
    @Alice
    Look, the only 1/3 of whites is a very bad thing. These numbers are even more atrocious when you find out what ACT considers college ready.

    They back-chain infer the appropriate "college readiness" scores by collecting grade data on the kids in college, and computing based in their grades in college algebra and basic college writing, who would get a B or above at a typical college.

    The ACT readiness score is the one correlated with a 50% chance of getting a B or above in college Algebra (not calc) and a B or better in basic writing.

    That's a freaking low bar. And only a third of whites can hit that

    The truth is: our schools have adopted schooling methods advocated by the Left that have abandoned content knowledge for inquiry based constructivism. This has hurt the bottom the most because they can't read, and need direct instruction to learn it. There are methods for teaching the first standard deviation left of the mean of the bell curve, but these have been completed abandoned.

    But it's hurting the right side of the bell curve too, and they are also not learning to read or spell or write or count.

    About 25% of the white population has an IQ above 110. We are probably sending virtually everybody to college who is likely to benefit from it and a lot more who aren’t.

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    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    The right side of the bell curve is mostly a sausagefest, yet women outnumber men in the hallowed halls of higher miseducation.

    And the more credentialed the woman, the lower her fertility. The best and brightest of the fairer sex have the fewest kids because they waste their prime birthing years on the corporate treadmill/hamster wheel.

    They say that time is the fire in which we burn. Many a maiden has charred her precious eggs on the burning altar of Ka-Rear.
  145. anonguy says:

    Actually Hispanics who don’t have the hostility have a “don’t care about academics” culture that is no doubt leading to crappier academic performance than their IQs should merit.

    A lot of the blue collar urban white ethnics, now a more or less vanished class, used to have this same mindset.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    Enter the Democrat party salivating over another group of exploitable people.
  146. Jim says:
    @Truther
    Interesting website. I did a quick comparison of the various "Asian" groups and here's what I found:

    1) The Northeast Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) and Asian Indians score far higher than the Southeast Asians (Filipino, Cambodian, Laotian, Hmong), with the Vietnamese somewhere between those 2 groups. The "Asian" average is dragged down by the latter group.

    2) The various Asian groups score in roughly the following order:

    Chinese, Korean >> Japanese, Asian Indian >> Vietnamese >> Cambodian > Filipino > Laotian > Hmong.

    3) The lowest scoring Asian group, the Hmongs, still score higher than Hispanics and blacks in almost all subjects.

    The Japanese are probably the smallest group among the top 4, most likely mostly native born. The other 3 groups Chinese, Korean and Indian are much more recent immigrant groups.

    All the psychometric data show that Northeast Asians exceed Northwest Europeans by about one-third of a standard deviation. Southeast Asians score about one-half of a standard deviation below Northwest Europeans. Southeast Asians do score however about a third of a standard deviation above the world average.

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  147. At first, I read “under-served learners” as “un-deserved learners.” It’s been a long week down here.

    OT: RIP, Jerry Pournelle.

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  148. @Jim
    About 25% of the white population has an IQ above 110. We are probably sending virtually everybody to college who is likely to benefit from it and a lot more who aren't.

    The right side of the bell curve is mostly a sausagefest, yet women outnumber men in the hallowed halls of higher miseducation.

    And the more credentialed the woman, the lower her fertility. The best and brightest of the fairer sex have the fewest kids because they waste their prime birthing years on the corporate treadmill/hamster wheel.

    They say that time is the fire in which we burn. Many a maiden has charred her precious eggs on the burning altar of Ka-Rear.

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  149. In the late 1960′s, I could have been called an ‘underserved learner’ if bizarre terms of that kind had been invented by pinheads. My family was lower working class; father was a high school drop-out with no ability or inclination towards tutoring his kids. But, he was sober and went to work every day, without fail. I went to a working-class high school but it was almost all white. I was classified as a bright child but was an indifferent student, mostly due to social ostracism. Several teachers had a low regard for me, especially one English teacher. Then, I did the unthinkable: I broke the 1400 barrier on the combined SAT, AND the 2100 barrier on three SAT achievement tests, taken the same day. [You could take up to three for one test fee]. So, my case illustrates that sometimes ‘professional educators’ don’t know squat. BUT, they do like their fat union contracts, don’t they?

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  150. @Off The Street
    Now that the snickering is subsiding, there are a few questions to ask.
    1. Who will employ those students, if anyone?
    2. How much will your taxes increase to provide welfare-to-work, or just welfare stipends?
    3. Are your children prepared to live in the world of Idiocracy?
    4. What are you doing to help your family and community deal with what is a tsunami of trouble?

    3. Are your children prepared to live in the world of Idiocracy?
    4. What are you doing to help your family and community deal with what is a tsunami of trouble?

    Well, mine will have no college debt when they graduate. And when they marry we will give each a paid for house in a neighborhood with “good schools.” That is what we can afford financially. We also gently tell them the truth about life in this age. No age is perfect. At least we have vaccines, so making rational choices based on the real circumstances that exist now should give them some chance to contribute to the world and enjoy life. That is the best I can do for them. I am not the master of the universe, just a parent trying to be responsible and loving.

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  151. @anonguy

    Actually Hispanics who don’t have the hostility have a “don’t care about academics” culture that is no doubt leading to crappier academic performance than their IQs should merit.
     
    A lot of the blue collar urban white ethnics, now a more or less vanished class, used to have this same mindset.

    Enter the Democrat party salivating over another group of exploitable people.

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  152. @dr kill
    WVU, the State University of West Virginia , doesn't require applicants to submit an SAT score. Make of that what you will.

    Someone I went to high school with, who was literally retarded, is an alumnus of WVU. So you don’t have to tell me.

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  153. @Jack D
    6 or 7 would only make the racial disparities look worse, so don't hold your breath.

    The highest % of 5's (62%) is found on the Chinese AP exam ( AP Chinese is very difficult for Americans, not that hard for native Chinese speakers). Followed by BC Calculus (another Asian favorite). On exams not dominated by Asians (English Literature) there are only 7% 5's and the peak is at 2, indicating if anything that the exam is too hard as it is.

    High end private schools are moving away from AP courses because they find the curriculum to be too rigid (or so they say). Meanwhile, a few years ago some clown at US News decided that the best way to rank high schools was by # of AP courses offered (regardless of what scores were achieved) so you had schools gaming the rankings by offering lots of APs. Blacks especially tend to get lots of below avg. AP scores, not surprisingly.

    https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/2016-AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php

    Meanwhile, a few years ago some clown at US News decided that the best way to rank high schools was by # of AP courses offered (regardless of what scores were achieved) so you had schools gaming the rankings by offering lots of APs.

    I agree he is a clown, but he wrote for Newsweek, not US News. He also wrote the book that was adapted into Stand and Deliver.

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  154. @Jack D
    Obviously you can't go by Indians born overseas. Even Indians that profess to be native English speakers almost always speak it as a 2nd language. Grammatical errors are common in non-native English speakers, especially if they are coming from a language with a very different grammatical structure. Hindi lacks a definite article and doesn't use indefinite articles much either so errors concerning articles are to be expected.

    In general, I think that S. Asians assimilate less than E. Asians after a couple of generations. E. Asians are more interested in assimilation - most E. Asians in America give their kids English first names on their birth certificates (even if they also have Asian names that they use at home). Whereas S. Asians almost always continue to give their kids Asian names (if you look at the list of the spelling bee winners since 2008, they are all S. Asian and not a single one has an Americanized first name). I also get the feeling that E. Asians intermarry with whites more often.

    Generally speaking, verbal and mathematical ability are correlated with each other. E. Asians tend to be very strong mathematically so their verbal abilities seem weaker by comparison to their math skills (esp. 1st generation non-native English speakers - going from E. Asian languages to English is a bitch because they are so different). But this is only in comparison to themselves. Compared to the general population, they are strong in verbal too. For example, if you look at the average SAT of MIT admits, it is something like 785M, 755V. So they are weaker in verbal compared to their math skills, but a 750+ verbal score is still very high.

    Obviously you can’t go by Indians born overseas

    Obviously? Why not? Does verbal aptitude in your view only apply to one’s first language? It has no impact upon one’s abilities to learn additional languages? What would you like me to call one’s capacity to master additional languages, then? Language is arbitrary, so I don’t mind, so long as we define our terms. Let’s call it blarg. Hindoos have excellent verbal abilities but poor blarg. Better?

    AnotherDad goes on to mention Hindoo languages which lack articles. Well, English lacks ubiquitous genders, but I don’t run around using only the masculine to refer to females or say shit like el mujere or la hombre. I guess I have strong verbal skills and good blarg, because, hey, the Hindoos I know who cannot use articles have lived in what used to be the U.S.A. for thirty years and more, whereas I learned Spanish in a university and, save a brief stint in Spain, I’ve never lived in a nation where Spanish is the predominant language … except Mexifornia. Say, maybe that’s the thing: I’ll bet all these Hindoos speak excellent Spanish! I’m going to put a clothes-pin on my nose Monday and try to chat one up in Spanish.

    In any event I concede my own points are anecdotal, but the whole thing began with a discussion of Hindoos’ verbal aptitudes (or blarg) not being great shakes when measured by empirical exams.

    I do agree with your point about Orientals assimilating more than Hindoos, and the reasons therefore. My theory is Hindoos do well in spelling bees because they are good at rote memorisation and practiced at writing preposterous strings of characters like Kailashchandra. Actual verbal skills and blarg rely far more on conceptually mastering abstract principles far more than rote memorisation.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    ¿Habla usted español puro y castizo como el maestro Cervantes?

    ¿Conoce a algunos inmigrantes de Rusia? ¿Es posible que ellos también hablen ingles con artículos no perfectamente correctos?
  155. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Autochthon

    Obviously you can’t go by Indians born overseas
     
    Obviously? Why not? Does verbal aptitude in your view only apply to one's first language? It has no impact upon one's abilities to learn additional languages? What would you like me to call one's capacity to master additional languages, then? Language is arbitrary, so I don't mind, so long as we define our terms. Let's call it blarg. Hindoos have excellent verbal abilities but poor blarg. Better?

    AnotherDad goes on to mention Hindoo languages which lack articles. Well, English lacks ubiquitous genders, but I don't run around using only the masculine to refer to females or say shit like el mujere or la hombre. I guess I have strong verbal skills and good blarg, because, hey, the Hindoos I know who cannot use articles have lived in what used to be the U.S.A. for thirty years and more, whereas I learned Spanish in a university and, save a brief stint in Spain, I've never lived in a nation where Spanish is the predominant language ... except Mexifornia. Say, maybe that's the thing: I'll bet all these Hindoos speak excellent Spanish! I'm going to put a clothes-pin on my nose Monday and try to chat one up in Spanish.

    In any event I concede my own points are anecdotal, but the whole thing began with a discussion of Hindoos' verbal aptitudes (or blarg) not being great shakes when measured by empirical exams.

    I do agree with your point about Orientals assimilating more than Hindoos, and the reasons therefore. My theory is Hindoos do well in spelling bees because they are good at rote memorisation and practiced at writing preposterous strings of characters like Kailashchandra. Actual verbal skills and blarg rely far more on conceptually mastering abstract principles far more than rote memorisation.

    ¿Habla usted español puro y castizo como el maestro Cervantes?

    ¿Conoce a algunos inmigrantes de Rusia? ¿Es posible que ellos también hablen ingles con artículos no perfectamente correctos?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    De verdad mi español es raro porque aprendió de una cubana, una mexicana, una americano, y un español. Tambien tengo una esposa colombiana. por eso mi acento es una combinación de muchos. Pero sí, puedo leer el español de Cervantes, pero es dificil.

    No conozco nadie de Rusia ahora mismo excepto la esposa de un amigo. Tuve una novia de Rusia una vez y no lo recomiendo: ella estaba loca. Tienes razon los rusos – como otros – a veces olvidan los articulos en inglés, pero por lo menos ellos se bañan.....
  156. @Anon
    ¿Habla usted español puro y castizo como el maestro Cervantes?

    ¿Conoce a algunos inmigrantes de Rusia? ¿Es posible que ellos también hablen ingles con artículos no perfectamente correctos?

    De verdad mi español es raro porque aprendió de una cubana, una mexicana, una americano, y un español. Tambien tengo una esposa colombiana. por eso mi acento es una combinación de muchos. Pero sí, puedo leer el español de Cervantes, pero es dificil.

    No conozco nadie de Rusia ahora mismo excepto la esposa de un amigo. Tuve una novia de Rusia una vez y no lo recomiendo: ella estaba loca. Tienes razon los rusos – como otros – a veces olvidan los articulos en inglés, pero por lo menos ellos se bañan…..

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    una americano
     

    I don’t run around using only the masculine to refer to females or say shit like el mujere or la hombre.
     
    Really?
  157. @Truther
    Interesting website. I did a quick comparison of the various "Asian" groups and here's what I found:

    1) The Northeast Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) and Asian Indians score far higher than the Southeast Asians (Filipino, Cambodian, Laotian, Hmong), with the Vietnamese somewhere between those 2 groups. The "Asian" average is dragged down by the latter group.

    2) The various Asian groups score in roughly the following order:

    Chinese, Korean >> Japanese, Asian Indian >> Vietnamese >> Cambodian > Filipino > Laotian > Hmong.

    3) The lowest scoring Asian group, the Hmongs, still score higher than Hispanics and blacks in almost all subjects.

    The Japanese are probably the smallest group among the top 4, most likely mostly native born. The other 3 groups Chinese, Korean and Indian are much more recent immigrant groups.

    Whites score about the same as Filipinos.

    Based on your data, whites score below Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Asian Indian, Vietnamese and Cambodian.

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  158. @Eric Cartman
    LOL. That Washington Post article is an exercise in obfuscation. All the talk about students who suffer from 1, 2 or 3 "undeserved disadvantages" is meant to obscure the fact that race explains virtually the entire disparity between those who meet the preparedness standard, and those who don't. The 2nd paragraph says:

    Scores from the ACT show that just 9 percent of students in the class of 2017 who came from low-income families, whose parents did not go to college, and who identify as black, Hispanic, American Indian or Pacific Islander are strongly ready for college.
     
    "Strongly ready for college" means they beat the benchmark in 3 out of 4 categories.

    Looking at Table 3.3, 11% of blacks passed the hardest benchmark - Science. From that, one can extrapolate that slightly less than 11% would have passed 3 out of 4 categories (because some may have passed Science but failed another). That gets you down to the 9% figure they referenced.

    Basically, you can ignore income or parental education. Only 9% of blacks are college ready. Period. End of sentence. Of course, they can't say that so they invent this convoluted method of classifying "undeserved disadvantages".

    You are right about them obfuscating the facts. In 2015, ACT released a report listing the percentage of blacks that met 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 benchmarks. The pdf for the report is still up but the pages are now blank.

    http://equityinlearning.act.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2015-african-american.pdf

    However, blacks do much worse than you predicted. Blacks ALWAYS underperform every disadvantaged category. In 2015, I posted the data in a comment section:

    Blacks (all income levels combined)
    62% met 0 benchmarks
    17% met 1 benchmark
    10% met 2 benchmarks
    5% met 3 benchmarks
    5% met all 4 benchmarks

    Low-income (all ethnicities combined)
    50% met 0 benchmarks
    18% met 1 benchmark
    13% met 2 benchmarks
    9% met 3 benchmarks
    11% met all 4 benchmarks

    http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/black-students-are-among-the-least-prepared-for-college-report-finds/102435

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    • Replies: @res
    This comment of yours was very interesting: http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/black-students-are-among-the-least-prepared-for-college-report-finds/102435#comment-2159636692
    Do you know of any good examples and/or studies of open tracking?
    , @Twinkie

    However, blacks do much worse than you predicted. Blacks ALWAYS underperform every disadvantaged category.
     
    http://s22.postimg.org/lka93zvm9/MP_1252.jpg

    But if you were not to believe your own lying eyes (and brain), "Education Realist" would be happy to let you know that, you see, blacks OVER-perform their test scores in real life (which is less well-known in these parts than her other claim of Asians under-performing their test scores and, indeed, their test scores being meaningless due to allegedly widespread Asian cheating and their inability to understand the math equations they appear to solve well). I wonder whether she follows her own claim and seek out black accountants, doctors, and lawyers.
  159. @Eric Cartman
    LOL. That Washington Post article is an exercise in obfuscation. All the talk about students who suffer from 1, 2 or 3 "undeserved disadvantages" is meant to obscure the fact that race explains virtually the entire disparity between those who meet the preparedness standard, and those who don't. The 2nd paragraph says:

    Scores from the ACT show that just 9 percent of students in the class of 2017 who came from low-income families, whose parents did not go to college, and who identify as black, Hispanic, American Indian or Pacific Islander are strongly ready for college.
     
    "Strongly ready for college" means they beat the benchmark in 3 out of 4 categories.

    Looking at Table 3.3, 11% of blacks passed the hardest benchmark - Science. From that, one can extrapolate that slightly less than 11% would have passed 3 out of 4 categories (because some may have passed Science but failed another). That gets you down to the 9% figure they referenced.

    Basically, you can ignore income or parental education. Only 9% of blacks are college ready. Period. End of sentence. Of course, they can't say that so they invent this convoluted method of classifying "undeserved disadvantages".

    I reread your post and you did say 3 out of 4 benchmarks, not all four — you are indeed correct.

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  160. res says:
    @Triumph104
    You are right about them obfuscating the facts. In 2015, ACT released a report listing the percentage of blacks that met 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 benchmarks. The pdf for the report is still up but the pages are now blank.

    http://equityinlearning.act.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2015-african-american.pdf

    However, blacks do much worse than you predicted. Blacks ALWAYS underperform every disadvantaged category. In 2015, I posted the data in a comment section:

    Blacks (all income levels combined)
    62% met 0 benchmarks
    17% met 1 benchmark
    10% met 2 benchmarks
    5% met 3 benchmarks
    5% met all 4 benchmarks

    Low-income (all ethnicities combined)
    50% met 0 benchmarks
    18% met 1 benchmark
    13% met 2 benchmarks
    9% met 3 benchmarks
    11% met all 4 benchmarks
     

    http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/black-students-are-among-the-least-prepared-for-college-report-finds/102435

    This comment of yours was very interesting: http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/black-students-are-among-the-least-prepared-for-college-report-finds/102435#comment-2159636692
    Do you know of any good examples and/or studies of open tracking?

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  161. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    De verdad mi español es raro porque aprendió de una cubana, una mexicana, una americano, y un español. Tambien tengo una esposa colombiana. por eso mi acento es una combinación de muchos. Pero sí, puedo leer el español de Cervantes, pero es dificil.

    No conozco nadie de Rusia ahora mismo excepto la esposa de un amigo. Tuve una novia de Rusia una vez y no lo recomiendo: ella estaba loca. Tienes razon los rusos – como otros – a veces olvidan los articulos en inglés, pero por lo menos ellos se bañan.....

    una americano

    I don’t run around using only the masculine to refer to females or say shit like el mujere or la hombre.

    Really?

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  162. I don’t say it. Sometimes my telephone types it, though. Phones with so-called autocorrect enabled do all kinds crazy things when you type using a language different from the one they are set to.

    It doesn’t help that they’ve interfaces maximised for the hands of the ten-year-old Chinese girls who assemble them. (I just spent four passes before finally successfully typing “of” rather than “if” because my fingertips are the size of four of the virtual keys on this thing.)

    I used to myself be maddened by terrible typography online…then I got a so-called smartphone and realised it could not be helped by those of us typing with them.

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    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It doesn’t help that they’ve interfaces maximised for the hands of the ten-year-old Chinese girls who assemble them.
     
    You know, just saying "I made a mistake" or "my phone auto-corrected me" suffices. You don't have to use the occasion of your own mistake to, yet again, blame nonwhites (who are obviously always at fault for what ails you).

    Also, ten-year-olds are not working at factories in China.

    I see that you try hard to appear erudite, going so far as to declare that you have "strong verbal skills and good blarg" unlike "Hindoos" (and bath-loving Russians, for that matter) who mix up articles. If indeed that were so, I think your cause would be helped much by refraining from hyperbolic statements, especially those that are not factual.

    Just remember that hyperbole is rarely a sign of high intelligence and good judgment. On the contrary, it frequently exposes one to ridicule when one - inevitably as we human beings all do - makes a mistake.
  163. F YI says:
    @Duke of Qin
    Hi Sineruse!

    Wow a comment I left 5 years ago received a reply six months after the fact. You didn't so much as "demolish" my line as much as double down on the lying. I provided the direct links to the source material that you referred to. Anyone is free to check the data for themselves as to who is misrepresenting the facts.

    For example, you wrote: "The Duke study had extremely detailed controls for course selection, as I just explained in some detail"

    Actual paper authors wrote page 3, paragraph 2: "There are, however, at least two reasons to be skeptical of Figure 1: variance and course selection." and " Note that these averages do not take into account selection into courses"

    That is some chutzpah right there, to lie so flagrantly operating under the assumption that no one would actually take the time to double check the source.

    One additional point that I feel must be reiterated but that Sineruse ignored is that these categories are for a broad "Asian" and not specifically "Chinese".

    You guessed wrong on my identity. Be that as it may, whatever “analysis” is posted here, I will copy to the original thread at HBDchick, with my comments, to keep the full record of discussion in one place. As you say, it helps readers draw their own conclusions, which are pretty entertaining.

    I provided the direct links to the source material that you referred to. Anyone is free to check the data for themselves as to who is misrepresenting the facts.

    That’s a fun game. Let’s play it here and see who, indeed, is misrepresenting the source material. Hint: it’s not Sineruse, and it speaks Chinese.

    [Sineruse:] “The Duke study had extremely detailed controls for course selection, as I just explained in some detail”

    Actual paper (http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/grades_4.0.pdf ) authors wrote page 3, paragraph 2: “There are, however, at least two reasons to be skeptical of Figure 1: variance and course selection.” and ” Note that these averages do not take into account selection into courses”

    That’s in the introduction to the paper, explaining why the authors decided to make the “extremely detailed controls for course selection” that Sineruse already, and correctly, explained. Had you read the paper, you would see that he was probably referring to the negative Asian numbers in Table 6 (page 15) not the graph in Figure 1 from the intro. Table 6 uses the previous 10 pages of “controls for course selection” and shows Asian underperformance measured by the authors’ adjusted version of class rank.

    That is some chutzpah right there, to lie so flagrantly operating under the assumption that no one would actually take the time to double check the source.

    Double checking the source shows that Sineruse was right about the paper and also right about “flailing rebuttals from China Pride warriors”, who fail even when they do read the sources. It’s almost as if they were underperforming live on the internet, and using words like chutzpah and liar to describe the people who exposed their failure.

    One additional point that I feel must be reiterated but that Sineruse ignored is that these categories are for a broad “Asian” and not specifically “Chinese”.

    Wouldn’t that make his point stronger? The “Asian” effects that come from Chinese and Koreans pushing their children harder are being diluted when less pushy groups are included in the “Asian” category. The Chinese underperformance is bigger than the “Asian” underperformance, and the Chinese immigrant underperformance bigger than the Chinese-American one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    The lies keep coming. I cant even call these mispresentations at this point because this is bold faced lieing about the contents. I would suggest everyone who is interested in this conversation to read the actual paper. The Figures in table 6 page 15 are not course adjusted. The adjustments that the paper authors make for course selection are NOT applied to Whites and Asians but are actually applied ONLY to Whites and Blacks and also for White Legacies and White non-Legacies as a control in tables 4 and 5.
  164. Pat Boyle says:
    @Dan Hayes
    Steve,

    And except for those living under a rock should anyone be surprised by these results!

    I think you’re wrong. On those rare occasions when I have mention IQs by race to someone, they have usually been surprised. If you watch TV you see in every commercial a smart black guy and a dumb white guy. Images make impressions.

    Read More
  165. Twinkie says:
    @Autochthon
    I don't say it. Sometimes my telephone types it, though. Phones with so-called autocorrect enabled do all kinds crazy things when you type using a language different from the one they are set to.

    It doesn't help that they've interfaces maximised for the hands of the ten-year-old Chinese girls who assemble them. (I just spent four passes before finally successfully typing "of" rather than "if" because my fingertips are the size of four of the virtual keys on this thing.)

    I used to myself be maddened by terrible typography online...then I got a so-called smartphone and realised it could not be helped by those of us typing with them.

    It doesn’t help that they’ve interfaces maximised for the hands of the ten-year-old Chinese girls who assemble them.

    You know, just saying “I made a mistake” or “my phone auto-corrected me” suffices. You don’t have to use the occasion of your own mistake to, yet again, blame nonwhites (who are obviously always at fault for what ails you).

    Also, ten-year-olds are not working at factories in China.

    I see that you try hard to appear erudite, going so far as to declare that you have “strong verbal skills and good blarg” unlike “Hindoos” (and bath-loving Russians, for that matter) who mix up articles. If indeed that were so, I think your cause would be helped much by refraining from hyperbolic statements, especially those that are not factual.

    Just remember that hyperbole is rarely a sign of high intelligence and good judgment. On the contrary, it frequently exposes one to ridicule when one – inevitably as we human beings all do – makes a mistake.

    Read More
  166. Twinkie says:
    @Triumph104
    You are right about them obfuscating the facts. In 2015, ACT released a report listing the percentage of blacks that met 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 benchmarks. The pdf for the report is still up but the pages are now blank.

    http://equityinlearning.act.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2015-african-american.pdf

    However, blacks do much worse than you predicted. Blacks ALWAYS underperform every disadvantaged category. In 2015, I posted the data in a comment section:

    Blacks (all income levels combined)
    62% met 0 benchmarks
    17% met 1 benchmark
    10% met 2 benchmarks
    5% met 3 benchmarks
    5% met all 4 benchmarks

    Low-income (all ethnicities combined)
    50% met 0 benchmarks
    18% met 1 benchmark
    13% met 2 benchmarks
    9% met 3 benchmarks
    11% met all 4 benchmarks
     

    http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/black-students-are-among-the-least-prepared-for-college-report-finds/102435

    However, blacks do much worse than you predicted. Blacks ALWAYS underperform every disadvantaged category.

    http://s22.postimg.org/lka93zvm9/MP_1252.jpg

    But if you were not to believe your own lying eyes (and brain), “Education Realist” would be happy to let you know that, you see, blacks OVER-perform their test scores in real life (which is less well-known in these parts than her other claim of Asians under-performing their test scores and, indeed, their test scores being meaningless due to allegedly widespread Asian cheating and their inability to understand the math equations they appear to solve well). I wonder whether she follows her own claim and seek out black accountants, doctors, and lawyers.

    Read More
  167. @F YI
    You guessed wrong on my identity. Be that as it may, whatever "analysis" is posted here, I will copy to the original thread at HBDchick, with my comments, to keep the full record of discussion in one place. As you say, it helps readers draw their own conclusions, which are pretty entertaining.

    I provided the direct links to the source material that you referred to. Anyone is free to check the data for themselves as to who is misrepresenting the facts.
     
    That's a fun game. Let's play it here and see who, indeed, is misrepresenting the source material. Hint: it's not Sineruse, and it speaks Chinese.

    [Sineruse:] “The Duke study had extremely detailed controls for course selection, as I just explained in some detail”

    Actual paper (http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/grades_4.0.pdf ) authors wrote page 3, paragraph 2: “There are, however, at least two reasons to be skeptical of Figure 1: variance and course selection.” and ” Note that these averages do not take into account selection into courses”
     

    That's in the introduction to the paper, explaining why the authors decided to make the "extremely detailed controls for course selection" that Sineruse already, and correctly, explained. Had you read the paper, you would see that he was probably referring to the negative Asian numbers in Table 6 (page 15) not the graph in Figure 1 from the intro. Table 6 uses the previous 10 pages of "controls for course selection" and shows Asian underperformance measured by the authors' adjusted version of class rank.

    That is some chutzpah right there, to lie so flagrantly operating under the assumption that no one would actually take the time to double check the source.
     
    Double checking the source shows that Sineruse was right about the paper and also right about "flailing rebuttals from China Pride warriors", who fail even when they do read the sources. It's almost as if they were underperforming live on the internet, and using words like chutzpah and liar to describe the people who exposed their failure.

    One additional point that I feel must be reiterated but that Sineruse ignored is that these categories are for a broad “Asian” and not specifically “Chinese”.
     
    Wouldn't that make his point stronger? The "Asian" effects that come from Chinese and Koreans pushing their children harder are being diluted when less pushy groups are included in the "Asian" category. The Chinese underperformance is bigger than the "Asian" underperformance, and the Chinese immigrant underperformance bigger than the Chinese-American one.

    The lies keep coming. I cant even call these mispresentations at this point because this is bold faced lieing about the contents. I would suggest everyone who is interested in this conversation to read the actual paper. The Figures in table 6 page 15 are not course adjusted. The adjustments that the paper authors make for course selection are NOT applied to Whites and Asians but are actually applied ONLY to Whites and Blacks and also for White Legacies and White non-Legacies as a control in tables 4 and 5.

    Read More
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